libera/##covid-19/ Saturday, 2020-02-22

contingohe's Ethiopian00:00
contingoit's just the way when he says the opportunity to do something to prevent a full on pandemic is "narrowing"00:01
contingothe hands come together very emphatically00:01
contingoand his face bears a slight grimace00:01
contingothen he basically says the international community is not acting quickly enough and not throwing enough money behind this00:04
contingohe says the most recent developments are very concerning00:05
contingoend clip00:05
contingomy description is probably more anxiety-inducing than the actual footage00:05
LjLcontingo, well i read a post saying the CDC went from "no problem" to "we're all gonna die" so i'm comparatively unfussed00:37
LjLi want my sister to be off those immunosuppressants :(00:37
LjLhow was it even possibly a good idea to start treatment when this thing was already around, given she had been avoiding it before? scratch yourself for a few more months dammit00:38
contingolooks like I picked a good year to embrace asceticism00:46
contingorelative asceticism00:47
LjLi have a feeling my bot isn't really working01:54
contingo.8ball Which Doomsday cult should I join?02:02
contingo%8ball Which Doomsday cult should I join?02:02
Brainstormcontingo, It is decidedly so02:02
LjLcontingo, well, i meant the RSS stuff isn't working, the bot is up02:14
LjLcontingo, also i've read the quarantine announcement, you know it's serious because they specify religious ceremonies are also forbidden02:15
LjLaffected municipalities: Codogno, Castiglione d'Adda, Casalpusterlengo, Fombio, Maleo, Somaglia, Bertonico, Terranova dei Passerini, Castelgerundo, San Fiorano02:15
LjLit's funny because these are probably all pretty close to here but Gasalpusterlengo is the only one i know of02:15
LjLand managed to misspell02:16
LjLwhat the fuck... it says here a 16 year old disabled guy died in Wuhan because his caretakers were forcefully taken away for quarantine02:35
LjLand he just starved or so02:35
BrainstormNew from Google News at 22:59: Coronavirus outbreak edges closer to pandemic - The Washington Post: Coronavirus outbreak edges closer to pandemic The Washington Post Coronavirus Live Updates: As New Cases Surge, Businesses Face Grim Fallout The New York Times Virus Epidemic Enters New Phase as Cases Outside China Multiply Bloomberg New virus has [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/x26kw702:58
BrainstormNew from r/CoVid19 at 23:18: COVID19: Lancet: Initiation of a new infection control system for the COVID-19 outbreak — from Google News at 23:18: Coronavirus outbreak in Chinese prisons, South Korea cases exceed 200 - CNBC → https://is.gd/YgGJhY03:13
BrainstormNew from Reddit WorldNews Live at 01:35: /u/BlatantConservative: Imgur: The magic of the Internet — from Google News at 01:35: WHO officials say coronavirus outbreak in Iran is 'very worrisome' - CNBC → https://is.gd/Kgy6O303:27
BrainstormNew from Google News at 01:45: Coronavirus outbreak: South Korea church cluster drives huge jump in cases - The Guardian: Coronavirus outbreak: South Korea church cluster drives huge jump in cases The Guardian Coronavirus: South Korea has seen its confirmed cases spike - BBC News BBC News Shadowy Church Is at Center of Coronavirus Outbreak in South Korea [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/qBYsXc03:41
BrainstormNew from Google News at 03:37: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English CDC is preparing for the 'likely' spread of coronavirus in the US, officials say USA TODAY Coronavirus outbreak in Chinese prisons, South Korea cases exceed 200 CNBC China's [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/1YNIld04:52
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus at 05:04: Coronavirus: As Virus Spreads in Italy, Iran and South Korea, Coronavirus Pandemic Totally Absent from Front Page of Washington Post, New York Times and USA Today on Friday — from Google News at 05:04: Coronavirus outbreak: South Korea church cluster drives huge jump in cases - The Guardian → https://is.gd/a4Mwfu07:35
BrainstormNew from Google News at 06:52: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English US prepares for possible coronavirus pandemic, WHO officials say Iran outbreak 'worrisome' CNBC South Korea Becomes Key Battleground as Cases Jump: Virus Update Bloomberg [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/1YNIld08:11
BrainstormNew from r/CoVid19 at 07:13: COVID19: "The increasing signs of transmission outside #China show that the window of opportunity we have for containing this #coronavirus is narrowing. We are calling on all countries to invest urgently in preparedness" — from Google News at 07:13: Why Did the Coronavirus Outbreak Start in China? - The New York Times → https://is.gd/LQpotl08:47
BrainstormNew from Google News at 07:47: (news): China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English — from Google News at 07:47: Coronavirus outbreak: South Korea clusters drives huge jump in cases - The Guardian → https://is.gd/1YNIld09:09
BrainstormNew from r/CoVid19 at 07:47: SARS-COV-2 induces pulmonary fibrosis. Thoughts on prevention.: Reports from China suggest that SARS-COV-2, like SARS, can result in pulmonary fibrosis. I’ve been thinking about this for a couple of weeks. The COVID19 virus binds to the ACE2 receptor, causing ACE2 down regulation. ACE2 is protective for the lungs and it’s [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ggDyZv09:38
BrainstormNew from Google News at 07:57: (news): WHO experts head to Wuhan, epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak, as cases continue to climb - The Washington Post → https://is.gd/6K9mB709:59
BrainstormNew from Google News at 08:30: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English US prepares for possible coronavirus pandemic, WHO officials say Iran outbreak 'worrisome' CNBC Fears over containing novel coronavirus grow as cases outside China spike CNN [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/1YNIld10:21
BrainstormNew from Google News at 12:02: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English US prepares for possible coronavirus pandemic, WHO officials say Iran outbreak 'worrisome' CNBC CDC is preparing for the 'likely' spread of coronavirus in the US, officials say USA [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/1YNIld13:41
LjLcontingo: wake up (already at 1pm), glance at bot, see "pulmonary fibrosis", assume that's about patients who "recover" since I've been worrying about the longterm effects since few are talking about that possibility, start feeling panic. Now I don't want to be reading anything above even accidentally, not sure if that sheds any light on how fear works. And my sister is at the goddamn street market with my mom, apparently.13:56
LjLPeople talk about epidemiologists assuming even if measures successfully slow it down, 40%-60% of the planet will have been infected a year or so from now. So what happens after recovery is kind of relevant13:57
LjLPlus apparently I can't even take comfort anymore in the thought that if I/my family catch it now, they'll still have the resources to treat us, and then I can stop worrying... because rumors I haven't verified (but are reported by say the new York times) are that people can be infected twice and the second time actually tends to be worse than the first (does that even make virological sense? I think for some people the critical thing is inflammation or 13:59
LjLcytokine storms)13:59
LjLA lot of the infected in Lombardy are doctors14:03
LjLAlso they keep saying the alleged patient zero tests negative... But can't they test his antibodies?14:05
LjLEven if he's recovered surely there's something left to detect14:05
contingoLjL: if you're experiencing this degree of life-debilitating panic and can't handle your own bot's posts, maybe do something else, don't start this channel, and update yourself about the situation once a day from selected sources. If you are panic-prone but you're exposing yourself to sources that have have to report as14:23
contingo"people talk about...", "rumors I haven't verified" etc.14:24
contingothat is not good14:24
LjLWell when I started this channel there wasn't 40000 people on lockdown next door to me so there is that14:24
contingoto address your immediate worries, no there is no antibody test available yet, it's not like one is being withheld14:24
LjLYesterday it was 16 now it's 40, should I tell my parents to turn off the TV...14:25
contingomy understanding is pulmonary fibrosis is a complication that can arise after people develop serious pneumonia, and varies in severity according to the severity of the pneumonia14:25
contingoI personally tell everyone not to own a TV14:25
LjLMy dad half-jokingly said we should retreat to the alps for a while14:28
LjLIn Veneto where there's another cluster they're going to test all 3000 people from the affected village... Also bunch of tents put up outside hospital to test people without actually letting them inside14:31
LjLAnd in Lombardy one commuter train line is not running (aside from no trains or buses stopping in the affected towns)14:32
contingoI can't see any mention of pulmonary fibrosis in Brainstorm's messages since last night14:33
contingowhich link is it14:33
LjLIt was just before you joined14:33
contingooh14:33
LjL14,9938] 99,99 9,99Brainstorm:99,99 New from r/CoVid19 at 07:47: SARS-COV-2 induces pulmonary fibrosis. Thoughts on prevention.: Reports from China suggest that SARS-COV-2, like SARS, can result in pulmonary fibrosis. I’ve been thinking about this for a couple of weeks. The COVID19 virus binds to the ACE2 receptor, causing ACE2 down regulation. ACE2 is protective for the lungs and it’s [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ggDyZv14:33
contingothere is nothing concrete there at all14:41
LjLcontingo: okay, thanks14:49
LjLI wonder when it reaches here whether they will put Milan on full lockdown too... That'd be an economic nightmare, but based on their initial reaction in those towns, it feels like they're planning to behave similar to China, hopefully without the more extreme parts15:05
contingomaybe not when it first reaches but it's a question of if a certain level of spread is reached15:07
LjLThe fact they reacted quickly makes me hope they were actually expecting it with a plan ready, instead of just hoping it magically wouldn't come15:07
LjLcontingo: I suspect I'm going to beat my daily walking record next time I'm going somewhere15:08
LjLI was already fretting a bit about the metro because a software glitch keeps making trains brake suddenly at random and injure people...15:09
LjLOr maybe I could be daring and try driving. Should only take a couple of hours to find parking15:10
contingodriving! I didn't know you drove15:14
LjLcontingo: haven't in many years tbh, with like two exceptions... but I sort of assume I can still do it, except I don't know how I'd react if anything unexpected happens15:17
LjLBut in 2021 I'll be renewing my license for the second time already... ugh15:17
LjLTime15:17
LjLCurse you15:18
BrainstormNew from Google News at 13:00: (news): WHO experts head to Wuhan, epicenter of coronavirus outbreak, as cases continue to climb - The Washington Post → https://is.gd/6K9mB715:20
BrainstormNew from Google News at 14:23: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English US prepares for possible coronavirus pandemic, WHO officials say Iran outbreak 'worrisome' CNBC CDC is preparing for the 'likely' spread of coronavirus in the US, officials say USA [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/1YNIld15:34
LjLcontingo, hand disinfectant gel used to be €6.80 for 4 (tiny) bottles on Amazon.it, now Prime just doesn't have it, and three third-party sellers are aligned around €8816:22
LjLis there a widely known brand of that in the UK? the well-known name in Italy is decidedly Italian16:23
LjLcool, the only one i had eye on amazon.co.uk went from "only one left" to "fuck off" during the time it took me to log in16:29
LjLhttps://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6%20(see%20https://systems.jhu.edu/research/public-health/ncov/) doesn't load anymore for me16:49
LjLwouldn't surprise me if it's down since it's the tracker virtually all other media have been using16:50
BrainstormNew from Google News at 15:04: Republican senator: China 'lying to the world' about coronavirus outbreak - Washington Examiner: Republican senator: China 'lying to the world' about coronavirus outbreak Washington Examiner Sen. Cotton on coronavirus: 'China is carefully managing the flow of information' Fox News How the Coronavirus Revealed [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/XWwDvJ17:00
contingoLjL can you buy pure ethanol?17:12
LjLcontingo: err I'm afraid my full lack of chemistry knowledge will impair my answer... We can buy denaturated alcohol17:16
contingoah, that's basically exactly what you want, except with additives to make it poisonous17:18
BrainstormNew from Google News at 16:09: (news): China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English — from Google News at 16:09: Coronavirus outbreak in Chinese prisons, South Korea cases exceed 200 - CNBC → https://is.gd/1YNIld17:28
BrainstormNew from r/CoVid19 at 17:02: COVID19: Indian company to test coronavirus vaccine on animals, human trials expected in 6 months — from Google News at 17:02: WHO officials say coronavirus outbreak in Iran is 'very worrisome' - CNBC → https://is.gd/xJ71T418:11
LjLcontingo: poisonous but on the hands it should be fine unless I lick them I presume? Then I should figure out a way to turn it into a gel18:11
BrainstormNew from r/CoVid19 at 18:44: COVID19: Molecular and serological investigation of 2019-nCoV infected patients: implication of multiple shedding routes — from Google News at 18:44: Coronavirus: Ukraine protesters attack buses carrying China evacuees - BBC News → https://is.gd/JQciD519:50
contingoLjL: the additives could be absorbed through the skin, idk19:56
contingolook up the exact ingredients19:56
LjLprobably aren't stated... the very hand gel we have (for now) only says 96% alcohol and then unspecified "additives"19:57
LjLi'm unclear on what rules apply on full statement of ingredients for not-quite-medicinal-but-close things.19:57
contingoI wouldn't put that alcohol on my skin20:00
contingowashing thoroughly with soap and water is recommended above hand sanitizer if you are in a position to do it20:01
LjLyeah, the hand gel is useful outdoors though, because let's be real, we can't train ourselves to never touch our face just by willing it20:02
LjLcontingo, in fact my mom used the hand gel she put next to the entrance (which is a bigger bottle, not the kind you keep in your pocket) as soon as she went in, and then said "i'll wash my hands in a minute anyway". perhaps i should calmly try to explain to her that she should just wash her hands AND conserve the hand gel for when we actually need that20:04
contingothat's why the masks are also handy, not mostly for air filtering as most think20:05
LjLcontingo, to... touch your face without touching it?20:06
LjLi understand the surgical masks basically provide zero air filtering20:06
LjLalthough i've seen a number of differently-shaped masks on tv and stuff20:06
LjLbut few of them looked like they had a respirator20:07
contingoyeah to stop making direct contact between hands and the skin around your mouth and nose20:07
contingoit depends on the mask20:07
contingosome include an adhesive around the margins and you need to apply to (freshly shaven) smooth skin, to form a seal20:08
LjLcontingo, anyway, i've kinda stopped thinking about the masks, i see no chance we're able to buy any, they were out of stock at the pharmacy well before the thing in Lombardy even began, weeks ago20:08
contingoyou can buy bandage tape and cut up HEPA filter material20:09
LjLcontingo, i've also repeatedly read that you have to replace them daily or even more frequently, basically whenever you feel any moisture inside the mask, or you just make things worse20:09
LjLthat seems rather impractical20:10
contingoyeah they're horrible20:10
contingomy mother refuses to wear them despite everyone wearing them there20:11
LjLi assume most wore them even before the outbreak?20:11
contingono20:17
contingojust a few here and there20:18
LjLat least they found them for sale then...20:18
LjLthe WHO is recommending *against* wearing them unless you have virus-like symptoms20:18
contingothey were probably all prepped20:19
LjLbut the WHO has been saying a number of things that sound stupid20:19
contingoby "everyone" I mean the affluent class20:19
LjLso like 1% of people?20:19
contingomaybe that's due to stocking issues20:19
LjLi rejoined ##prepping but i'm afraid it might be a tad too late now!20:19
LjLalso there doesn't seem to be any chat20:20
contingoI have no idea. Like 90% of people I actually see when I go there, because all I see are shopping malls and restaurants20:20
LjLthe first masks set that shows up on amazon.it (without prime, nothing at all with prime) is €88, just like the hand sanitizer20:21
LjLis 88 some special number now20:21
contingoyes, it's a lucky number in asian cultures20:21
contingoalso Tarantino's20:22
contingo'Crazy 88'20:22
LjLoh my, i didn't *really* think there was a reason behind the price20:22
contingo88 is a white supremacist numerical code for "Heil Hitler."20:24
contingoAngel number 88 is a highly auspicious angel number with a vibration that augurs well for your financial future20:24
contingo88 is the number of keys on a piano20:24
contingo88 (eighty-eight) is the natural number following 87 and preceding 8920:24
LjLi knew about one of those!20:24
BrainstormNew from Google News at 19:34: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English New coronavirus cases in Iran, Italy fuel concerns the disease cannot be contained CNBC Coronavirus Live Updates: South Korean Cases Spike, and Fear Builds The New York Times CDC is [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/1YNIld20:47
LjL62 cases now, we're between Hong Kong and Thailand, hurray23:14
LjLLeading Europe as usual23:14

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