| LjL | contingo: affected towns are under hard lockdown now (can't enter or leave) and there are 62 cases now including some closer to Milan, but I'm sure authorities must know chances are overwhelmingly that people are already sick in Milan... | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | Although I'm not sure what authorities really think considering earlier politicians were talking on TV about whether or not to close the borders... which is completely a nonissue since if anything it's our neighbors that will close the borders with us now | 00:01 |
| LjL | contingo: also they said they've determined alleged "patient zero" isn't such because he has not developed antibodies after all | 00:05 |
| contingo | LjL it seems antibody testing kits did become available from the 21st | 00:09 |
| contingo | LjL, despite joking it's too late to prep now, are you prepped in obvious ways? | 00:10 |
| LjL | contingo: no, not really, I don't think so, you don't worry but you've prepared after all, I worry but I don't know what to do or what to tell my parents to do or how to convince them that it should be done, or how to get my sister off the goddamned immunosuppressants | 00:12 |
| LjL | I'm a hair below panic right now tbh | 00:12 |
| LjL | One day ago everything was under control, now northern Italy will all be on lockdown | 00:13 |
| LjL | We have some food, not any particular amounts, and we don't have face masks, what are other obvious ways to prepare? | 00:13 |
| LjL | My parents don't seem to have any intention to stop going to supermarkets and such until they force us to stay inside... They went shopping like three times just today | 00:18 |
| contingo | well, I can just say what I have | 00:24 |
| contingo | I have quite a stash of the everyday medicines I use | 00:24 |
| contingo | I have lots and lots of buckets with lids | 00:24 |
| contingo | I have a tonne of rice and dried pasta and long-life staple stuff | 00:25 |
| contingo | i have lots of silver coins but that's just silly | 00:25 |
| contingo | first aid kits | 00:25 |
| contingo | lots of lights and devices that run off batteries, and lots of spare batteries | 00:26 |
| contingo | piles of single-use handwarmers | 00:26 |
| contingo | a gas stove and gas canisters | 00:26 |
| contingo | along with the "staple stuff" I just have a larder of tinned and long-life foods generally | 00:27 |
| contingo | in terms of devices that run off batteries, it's flashlights and lanterns, and a radio (well, a few). I think it's important to have a battery operated radio | 00:29 |
| contingo | i'm sure a proper prepper will have thought of many other things | 00:29 |
| contingo | this is just absent-minded prepper / surplus from jungle expedition stuff | 00:30 |
| LjL | contingo, well i'm not a prepper... i guess the electricity stuff *shouldn't* be too important since Wuhan itself still has electricity just fine, although someone already went "are you willing to bet your life on that" on me, but then, there's a huge number of other things i'm "betting" my life on in the same way, and if i started thinking of them all, the first worry would be panic | 00:32 |
| LjL | we should probably obtain more prescriptions for medicines we take... although i'm pretty sure everyone else will be having the same thought next monday | 00:32 |
| contingo | score some etizolam | 00:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 23:11: /u/hasharin: UPDATE: CDC on coronavirus health emergency — from Google News at 23:11: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English → https://is.gd/V3b94u | 00:38 |
| LjL | nobody told me i mangled the topic :( | 00:45 |
| Spec | you mangled the topic | 00:46 |
| LjL | my statement was true when i stated it | 00:46 |
| Spec | has WHO admitted it's a pandemic yet? | 00:46 |
| LjL | not to my knowledge | 00:47 |
| Spec | also, i don't understand the shipments-from-chinese statements if the virus has a long life outside of a host | 00:47 |
| LjL | me neither | 00:47 |
| LjL | but conspiracy people say WHO belongs to china, so there is that | 00:47 |
| Spec | sounds like a reasonably stealthy way to distribute a SECRET GOVERNMENT VIRUS WORLDWIDE | 00:47 |
| LjL | pfft | 00:49 |
| LjL | CDC and/or USgov have already accused Russia of being spreading misinformation like that against the US | 00:50 |
| LjL | so which side are you on | 00:50 |
| Spec | uhh | 00:53 |
| Spec | TeamHuman | 00:53 |
| contingo | the virus | 00:53 |
| LjL | looks like case inside Milan confirmed :( | 00:54 |
| LjL | at a large hospital | 00:54 |
| LjL | %tr <it E nelle chiese vietato scambiarsi il segno della pace e via l'acqua santa. | 00:55 |
| LjL | how about CANCEL FUCKING MASS instead | 00:55 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: And in churches it is forbidden to exchange the sign of peace and via holy water. (MyMemory, Google) — And in the churches *vietato exchange the sign of the peace and road the saint water. (Apertium) | 00:55 |
| Spec | yeah spray some holy water about it | 00:55 |
| Spec | if they admit holy water can spread disease, like, are they admitting their religion is just entirely 100% a sham? | 00:55 |
| LjL | good point | 00:56 |
| LjL | at least in the locked down municipalities, mass is forbidden | 00:56 |
| LjL | but that will hardly help the rest of us happily shaking our hands while binging on holy water | 00:56 |
| LjL | %tr <it Lavati spesso le mani (dopo aver tossito/starnutito, dopo aver assistito un malato, prima durante e dopo la preparazione di cibo, prima di mangiare, dopo essere andati in bagno, dopo aver toccato animali o le loro deiezioni o più in generale quando le mani sono sporche in qualunque modo). | 00:58 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: Wash your hands often (after coughing / sneezing, after caring for a sick person, before during and after food preparation, before eating, after going to the bathroom, after touching animals or their droppings or more generally when hands are dirty in any way). (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 00:58 |
| LjL | i like "before during and after food preparation" | 00:58 |
| Spec | yessssss | 00:58 |
| LjL | looks like r/coronavirus and/or r/china_flu have their own website with the most detailed map i've seen yet | 01:04 |
| LjL | https://ncov2019.live/map | 01:04 |
| LjL | Spec, my dad half-jokingly said today (or yesterday?) morning that we could retreat to the alps. now it doesn't seem too farfetched to even presume we won't be *allowed* to do that by tomorrow or so... | 01:13 |
| Spec | yes | 01:15 |
| Spec | also, the alps wouldn't be stocked with what you need for a longer duration there | 01:16 |
| Spec | shoulda gotten on that plan a fortnight or two ago :) | 01:16 |
| LjL | i think i do require an extra dose of benzos tonight | 01:17 |
| contingo | i think you do too | 01:17 |
| contingo | this "more deadly upon reinfection" claim seems unfounded so far | 01:22 |
| LjL | it better be | 01:24 |
| LjL | https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iss.it%2F%3Fp%3D5158 this reads a bit like "starting today, we reserve the right to censor new cases" to me | 01:25 |
| Spec | well, they wouldn't want you to panic | 01:25 |
| LjL | so considerate | 01:25 |
| contingo | it would be a very odd thing. It's true of dengue fever, but I think only because of weird cross-immunological things going on with highly diverged strains of dengue | 01:26 |
| contingo | the only sources I can find are tabloid in nature | 01:26 |
| LjL | contingo, did you find any positive confirmation that reinfection *is* possible in the first place? | 01:26 |
| LjL | i mean, i guess no one can rule it out yet, but has it actually conclusively happened | 01:27 |
| contingo | no | 01:27 |
| contingo | I found things like the New York Post leading with "Whistleblower doctors say coronavirus reinfection even deadlier" ...then in the report it's "according to a report". The report is just an article in the Taiwan news. It's just what an anonymous doctor "told the outlet". | 01:29 |
| contingo | But then when you read the Taiwan news, it's just what someone in the UK said a doctor relative of theirs in Wuhan said to pass on... | 01:30 |
| LjL | i see | 01:30 |
| LjL | would be funny except it's not | 01:30 |
| LjL | ... or will it, really, because it has randomly stopped posting anything again | 01:34 |
| Spec | hehe | 01:34 |
| LjL | a restart will fix it forever | 01:35 |
| contingo | %w decalogue | 01:42 |
| Brainstorm | contingo, decalogue — noun: 1. Alternative spelling of Decalogue → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/decalogue | 01:42 |
| contingo | %w Decalogue | 01:43 |
| Brainstorm | contingo, Decalogue — proper noun: 1. The Ten Commandments — noun: 1. Any set of rules that have the weight of authority → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Decalogue | 01:43 |
| LjL | contingo, it's a somewhat common word in italian, i guess it's got currency mainly from the ten commandments, but then it gets used for any short list of things to do without fail | 01:44 |
| contingo | "The Institute is committed to all aspects of the action to combat the virus, including the communicative one, as evidenced for example by the recent publication of the decalogue on good behavior, which remains valid" | 01:55 |
| LjL | yes, they just mean the italian translation of the WHO "wash your hands, also take packages from china" rules | 01:55 |
| LjL | i mean, Thou will not refuse packages from thy Chinese neighbors | 01:55 |
| LjL | Spec, lol, r/italy usually has "megathreads", spot the "typo" in the flair instead https://www.reddit.com/r/italy/ | 01:56 |
| Spec | lick packages from china pls | 01:56 |
| contingo | the numbers of people testing positive in the first instance should be immediate public knowledge, no? | 01:56 |
| contingo | maybe no | 01:56 |
| Spec | LjL: no idea | 01:57 |
| contingo | do we have stats on the rate of false positives | 01:57 |
| Spec | MEGATREAT COVID-19 | 01:58 |
| LjL | contingo, one was tested positive by Rome but twice negative by Milan | 01:58 |
| LjL | Spec, bingo | 01:58 |
| LjL | well, THREAT, but yes | 01:58 |
| contingo | OK well that is a datum | 01:59 |
| LjL | %tr In Taiwan tutti indossano la mascherina, ci sono dosatori di alcool sanitario (tipo Amuchina) ovunque e bloccati tutti i traffici con la Cina. Il governo ha preso sotto controllo il mercato delle mascherine, si vendono solo in farmacia, massimo due a persona per una settimana acquistando con tessera sanitaria. | 01:59 |
| contingo | we need a rate | 01:59 |
| LjL | %tr Si possono controllare gli spostamenti dei contagiati su Google maps. Tutto questo perché hanno sofferto la SARS e ora sono preparatissimi. Ad oggi ci sono solo 26 casi nonostante sia così vicino alla Cina. L'Italia deve prendere esempio, per limitare il contagio ma soprattutto per evitare il panico. | 01:59 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: In Taiwan everyone wears a mask, there are sanitary alcohol dispensers (Amuchina type) everywhere and all traffic with China is blocked. The government has taken over the mask market, they are sold only in pharmacies, maximum two per person for a week by purchasing with a health card. (MyMemory) [... want %more?] | 01:59 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: You can check the movements of the infected on Google maps. All this because they have suffered from SARS and are now very prepared. To date there are only 26 cases despite being so close to China. Italy must take an example, to limit the infection but above all to avoid panic. (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 01:59 |
| LjL | rationing of face masks might not have been such a terrible idea... | 02:00 |
| Spec | 'above all to avoid panic' | 02:00 |
| LjL | but the WHO insists regular people shouldn't wear them at all, so | 02:00 |
| Spec | does 'avoid panic' mean 'not allow people to make informed decisions' | 02:00 |
| contingo | the WHO are OK you know | 02:00 |
| Spec | so that you can make decisions on who gets care and who doesn't based on your own political will? | 02:00 |
| contingo | as chums | 02:00 |
| LjL | Spec, probably, but it also tends to be stated following whatever creates panic | 02:00 |
| contingo | it's a difficult rope to walk | 02:01 |
| Spec | LjL: disco causes panic, sir. disco. | 02:01 |
| LjL | Spec, true fact, deaths have occurred from panic occurring in discos | 02:01 |
| LjL | %tr Sono curioso se il Conte darà l'ordine di sparare nel caso ci sia una fuga di massa dalle zone di quarantena, caso che conoscendo gli italiani mi pare plausibile. Probabilmente si starà preparando guardando Virus Letale e leggendo The Stand. | 02:02 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: I'm curious if the Count will give the order to shoot in case there is a mass escape from the quarantine areas, a case that knowing the Italians seems plausible to me. He is probably getting ready by watching Lethal Virus and reading The Stand. (MyMemory) [... want %more?] | 02:02 |
| LjL | "the count" being our PM | 02:03 |
| LjL | %tr Allo stesso modo mi incuriosisce se l'esercito si scanserà di fronte all'orda di gente che tossisce e diffonde virus nell'aria o terrà le posizioni. | 02:03 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: In the same way, I am curious if the army will avoid the horde of people who cough and spread viruses in the air or hold positions. (MyMemory, Google) — To the same mode *mi *incuriosisce #if the army *scanserà in front to the *orda of persons that *tossisce and #spread virus in the air or will hold the positions. (Apertium) | 02:03 |
| contingo | I know a guy who played a major role advising the WHO on antiviral treatments in relation to the 2009/10 swine flu | 02:03 |
| Spec | did he advise everyone to kiss pigs? | 02:03 |
| Spec | or was that just the memes? | 02:03 |
| contingo | I can't remember the specifics but the number of things they had to weigh up that were less about medical facts and more about the madness of crowds and economies was unexpected to me | 02:04 |
| Spec | yeah | 02:04 |
| Spec | well you wouldn't want to tank the economy and cause rich people to suffer just because the poor folk are dying | 02:05 |
| Spec | with a virus such as this, surely the wealthy will gain preferential hospitalization space | 02:05 |
| contingo | idk how it will work here, even a lot of very wealthy people I know don | 02:06 |
| contingo | 't have private healthcare | 02:06 |
| Spec | ah, well, here everything's for sale to the highest bidder | 02:06 |
| contingo | insurance or a plan, say with BUPA | 02:06 |
| Spec | including our government, cabinet positions, justice, etc. | 02:06 |
| Spec | and, presumably, healthcare | 02:07 |
| contingo | our public health service until sort of recently was sort of OK on sort of a wide range of fronts | 02:07 |
| Spec | did that recently change? | 02:08 |
| contingo | it remains free to access | 02:09 |
| contingo | waiting times increase | 02:09 |
| contingo | general metrics of performance decrease | 02:09 |
| contingo | incidents of specific scandals relating to underfunding and malpractice increase | 02:09 |
| Spec | ruh roh | 02:09 |
| Spec | are these things done on purpose by the government itself in order to ease the transition into private healthcare such that wealthy people can make more money on the ailments of the lower class? | 02:10 |
| Spec | it's a viable plan sir, works well here | 02:10 |
| contingo | yes there's been a systematic dismantling of the service in favor of privatized and inferior subservices contracted to people who are very cosy with our politicians, more so our more right-wing politicians naturally | 02:11 |
| Spec | seeeems legit, a lottta money to be made upon the suffering of others | 02:12 |
| contingo | I grew up in the USA until I was 14 and broke a lot of bones there | 02:13 |
| contingo | I'd say the system here is still vastly better than the system there | 02:14 |
| contingo | but probs not for much longer | 02:14 |
| contingo | just like over there, the people here who suffer most have been convinced to vote for more and more suffering | 02:15 |
| LjL | sounds similar to Italy, even though clueless people are still perpetuating the "second best healthcare in the world" nonsense that might have been true in 2008 when it was assessed (though i have my doubts), but definitely hasn't been since the financial crisis. i don't know how right-wing our private healthcare centers are, but they are definitely becoming competitive against public healthcare | 02:16 |
| LjL | we've routinely gotten "meh" to "ok" private healthcare for €60 a visit, when you spend €30 for a public healthcare visit anyway, with the difference you get it "tomorrow" instead of "in a month" | 02:17 |
| LjL | we as in my family | 02:17 |
| LjL | and it can even be cheaper than public healthcare | 02:17 |
| LjL | sometimes you'll get an easy ultrasound or such exam done as part of the €60 visit, while with healthcare that involves your GP referring you to a specialist, then the specialist prescribing the ultrasound, then getting the ultrasound, then going back to the specialist | 02:18 |
| LjL | €20 to €60 for each of these steps | 02:18 |
| LjL | and lots of waiting | 02:18 |
| LjL | to be fair, the ones in serious economic difficulties get these fees waived | 02:18 |
| LjL | contingo, how long do you imagine it should take for us to sequence the local strain and figure out if there's some worrisome mutation? | 02:21 |
| contingo | like, any minute now? | 02:22 |
| LjL | well maybe not in the middle of the night | 02:22 |
| contingo | no, rest is important | 02:23 |
| Spec | LjL: do it | 02:23 |
| LjL | what | 02:23 |
| Spec | sequence all the things | 02:23 |
| LjL | i get the feeling i'm being mocked | 02:23 |
| Spec | i would never mock you my good sir | 02:24 |
| contingo | I remember in the 2009 swine flu outbreak, before Tamiflu was approved on the NHS, everyone was clamouring for it, but it was only available commercially at extortionate prices | 02:24 |
| Spec | very nice | 02:25 |
| LjL | contingo, isn't that also the thing that kinda has more side effects than front effects | 02:25 |
| contingo | but my family was able to buy a stock at those extortionate prices | 02:25 |
| Spec | contingo: i had to waive my privacy rights to (some) healthcare data to receive a non-approved (by FDA) vaccination against...something | 02:25 |
| Spec | 'cause we was out | 02:25 |
| LjL | out? | 02:25 |
| Spec | what was it...yellow fever vaccine i think | 02:25 |
| Spec | LjL: yeah, US had no stock of the approved medication | 02:26 |
| LjL | oh | 02:26 |
| contingo | then I developed some symptoms and decided to take it, and then had an absolutely horrendous time for a week, I haven't been nearly as ill since | 02:26 |
| Spec | (made by same corporation as unapproved "experimental" vaccine) | 02:26 |
| Spec | contingo: :( | 02:26 |
| LjL | contingo, err, did you have swine flu, or did you have tamiflu | 02:26 |
| Spec | tamifluuu | 02:26 |
| Spec | is zika still plaguing people? | 02:26 |
| Spec | zika was a pandemic, right? | 02:27 |
| LjL | even plague is still plaguing people | 02:27 |
| Spec | my friend got the zika | 02:27 |
| Spec | he was ordered by the CDC to stay away from mosquitos | 02:28 |
| contingo | I have no idea, except if that really was in larger part the Tamiflu side effects, then they felt barely survivable and I don't follow how only vulnerable and immunocompromised people are recommended it | 02:28 |
| LjL | Spec, the wikipedia article about zika cites WHO as calling it a "Public Health Emergency of International Concern", which i believe is the same as what this thing is being called now, which i believe is one step short of "pandemic", but not sure | 02:29 |
| Spec | hmm | 02:29 |
| Spec | well, zika isn't as bad as this one is, for sure | 02:29 |
| contingo | no one else in my family opted for the Tamiflu after me | 02:29 |
| Spec | haha | 02:30 |
| Spec | i will keep this under advisement if i ever encounter such an option in life | 02:30 |
| LjL | Spec, looks like "in rare cases" zika causes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guillain%E2%80%93Barr%C3%A9_syndrome (aside from the concern with fetal infection) | 02:32 |
| Spec | oh yeah | 02:33 |
| Spec | i recall that | 02:33 |
| LjL | I don't follow how only vulnerable and immunocompromised people are recommended it ← maybe because barely survivable is still better than non-survivable? | 02:33 |
| LjL | but still | 02:33 |
| LjL | doctors have kept recommending my sister to take the immunosuppressants | 02:33 |
| LjL | and i don't follow that either | 02:33 |
| LjL | there's a fucking incoming pandemic | 02:33 |
| LjL | she isn't a transplant recipient or anything | 02:33 |
| LjL | she does have a pretty damned bad dermatitis, but she hasn't died from it yet | 02:33 |
| LjL | surely on balance it'd be better for her to have an immune system now, while having to scratch herself around and looking like she's burned, which sure, isn't great, but | 02:34 |
| contingo | how long do the immunosuppressant effects take to clear? | 02:36 |
| LjL | contingo, i don't know, i'm afraid it will hardly be instant, but when she *started* being on these things, there was already ncov in china, and i already told my parents "what? she hasn't started until now, and she starts NOW?" | 02:37 |
| contingo | I said to my sister at the time, it seemed like Tamiflu was like getting flu on top of my flu, and she said it seemed to her like my flu was a paper cut and then Tamiflu amputated my legs | 02:37 |
| LjL | contingo, next time just take paracetamol :P | 02:38 |
| contingo | some systems take a long time to revert to baseline, not to alarm you, because I have no idea about this one | 02:39 |
| LjL | contingo, well either way i'm already alarmed since even if she reverted to fully immune instantly, i don't know how to convince her to quit taking it (or even whether i should) | 02:39 |
| LjL | i guess none of us was expecting that the first serious cluster in europe would happen *right here*, but still, it was pretty obvious it was going to happen sooner than later | 02:40 |
| contingo | don't persuade, just supply her with information | 02:40 |
| LjL | contingo, so like, "this thing has an estimated 2% fatality rate though it's very much a guess; it has 15% fatality rate on groups at risk, which includes the elderly, and people with a depressed immune system; and it's extremely contagious so about 50% of the world population is forecast to get it within a year"? | 02:41 |
| LjL | i might have to steal my mom's whatsapp to communicate with her | 02:42 |
| LjL | if i use my voice she'll just yell something or other at me and go away | 02:42 |
| contingo | idk how much basics your sister has in place | 02:42 |
| LjL | conceivably none | 02:43 |
| LjL | although she works for some company that deals with pharma companies, but far as i could gather, that just made her very suspicious of pharma | 02:43 |
| LjL | she didn't *want* to take these immunosuppressants, and she postponed while she was trying a magical diet instead | 02:44 |
| contingo | would it then help her to be taught about how an immune system is what a human body needs to fight off any infection | 02:44 |
| LjL | when the magical diet didn't work and she had to take days off work, she gave in and took it | 02:44 |
| LjL | she probably knows that part to that degree of detail | 02:44 |
| contingo | the FDA for example will only approve certain drug trials for monotherapy (treatment for a condition with that drug alone), if the participant has discontinued other medication for a full two months | 02:44 |
| LjL | something *i* don't know is how suppressed the immune system is by immunosuppressants like this | 02:45 |
| LjL | could be "no immunity" to "slightly less than normal" for all i know | 02:45 |
| contingo | I have no idea if it's targeted immunosuppression | 02:45 |
| LjL | it's cyclosporin, it's something transplant recipients used to take, but mostly don't anymore because there are newer ones with less issues | 02:46 |
| LjL | but maybe she's taking much lower dosages than transplant patients would, idk | 02:46 |
| contingo | I dropped out of immunology as an undergrad actually, the lecturer was very boring and religious | 02:46 |
| LjL | what fights infections better than, antibodies or prayer? | 02:47 |
| contingo | idk, I didn't complete the module | 02:47 |
| LjL | i hope i can at least convince my parents that it's fine if we just print prescriptions our GP gives us from our computer using our health cards | 02:48 |
| LjL | instead of going to the GP's office | 02:48 |
| LjL | one of the earliest identified patients was "patient one"'s GP | 02:49 |
| LjL | (they still call him "patient one" but now there is no known "patient zero") | 02:49 |
| contingo | the antibody test could be a false negative | 02:49 |
| LjL | contingo, it already was dubious though, because he only had mild symptoms if any, it was mainly that he came back from china and was known to have met "patient one" | 02:50 |
| LjL | he neve got himself tested, just went on with his life (which is making some people pretty mad at him) | 02:51 |
| contingo | why is it dubious if a high proportion may be mild or asymptomatic | 02:51 |
| contingo | or maybe he merely carried the virus on his scarf or something | 02:52 |
| LjL | well, he had few if any symptoms, he tested negative, and now he's negative to the antibody test | 02:52 |
| LjL | probability 1.0 is never a thing | 02:52 |
| LjL | but... | 02:52 |
| LjL | anyway, it appears they are treating him as a non-starters and looking for another possible connection to figure out who patient zero *is* | 02:53 |
| LjL | not sure it matters a whole lot at this point | 02:53 |
| LjL | might matter for making sense of which strain is which, i guess | 02:53 |
| contingo | more genomics would be helpful | 02:54 |
| LjL | if only all 60 million of us had donated their genomes to 23andme | 02:54 |
| LjL | now https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 says 79 cases in italy... gee, i didn't even realize it was *that* realtime | 02:55 |
| LjL | so we're between Singapore and HK | 02:56 |
| contingo | I mean of the virus | 02:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 01:06: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English Coronavirus Update: Cases Leap Again In South Korea, As Officials Warn Africa : Goats and Soda NPR Coronavirus Live Updates: South Korean Cases Spike, and Fear Builds The New York [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/RwIQ7C | 02:56 |
| contingo | this is all rather... uncanny | 02:56 |
| contingo | this Lombardy thing | 02:57 |
| LjL | so i can feel scared to death without being ashamed of it, you think? | 02:57 |
| contingo | how about feeling ashamed without being scared | 02:58 |
| LjL | why should i feel ashamed if i'm not scared | 02:59 |
| LjL | anyway i don't know where the map even gets those numbers, official data are only published daily, and scantly | 02:59 |
| LjL | maybe that's why the ministry of health took over, so they can give us data more slowly, while still keeping the international community updated ;( | 03:00 |
| LjL | contingo, https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/f80aq7/italy_update_at_least_80_cases_2_deads_schools/ | 03:05 |
| LjL | "Anyone caught trying to leave (from now on) will be arrested and charged with 3 months reclusion." :| | 03:05 |
| contingo | so this is a statement given by your government just now? | 03:06 |
| contingo | who tried to "run away"? | 03:07 |
| contingo | oh I see | 03:07 |
| contingo | "a man" | 03:07 |
| LjL | contingo, the statement was some hours ago, to the effect that there is a ban on entering and leaving, with associated prison sentence apparently. the rest is newer info, mostly the fact cases have soared to 80 | 03:08 |
| LjL | weeks ago when i first heard of cities on lockdown and police arresting people trying to leave in china, i thought "wow, that's really china being china" | 03:08 |
| LjL | so much for that | 03:08 |
| LjL | %tr <it Ad ora sono 33 le persone ricoverate con sintomi, di cui 18 in terapia intensiva, 11 invece sono in isolamento domiciliare. Due i deceduti, mentre una persona è stata dimessa allo Spallanzani | 03:09 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: At the moment 33 people are hospitalized with symptoms, of which 18 in intensive care, 11 instead are in home isolation. Two died, while one person was discharged from Spallanzani (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 03:09 |
| LjL | these don't seem like great stats | 03:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 01:39: (news): Coronavirus cases spike in South Korea and Italy, as China outbreak continues to grow - CNN International → https://is.gd/M2pKUG | 03:10 |
| contingo | no | 03:12 |
| contingo | yes | 03:12 |
| contingo | would you rather have set yourself up in the Alps? | 03:12 |
| contingo | someone on that thread "I live near a large mountain range and could survive up there in the wilderness for months (I’m an experienced hiker / backpacker). I just need 1-3 more weeks for the spring warmth to come. Dangerous cold and heavy snow would make it tough before mid-March, but after weather really just improves a bit." lol | 03:15 |
| LjL | contingo, well it's not like our apartment is a hut in the wilderness. anyway spec is right, it's late now. and my parents discussed it a bit i think but they wouldn't leave my sister here alone, and she "has to work". although i bet in a day or two, all work activities will be stopped in milan, but if i say that, then i'm an "alarmist",so | 03:16 |
| LjL | Spec is right anyway, if we wanted to have an alps plan, we should have had it earlier... even if we're still allowed to move by the time we're ready, in the alps town there's barely supermarkets. if they're confronted with an unusual amount of people fleeing there, i'm not entirely sure what the situation will be like... i have a feeling "smaller is better" with these things but it's no more than a feeling | 03:18 |
| contingo | I was just considering where I would like to base myself | 03:19 |
| contingo | I wasn't suggesting you shared the mountaineering near-lunacy of that poster, your alps place seems viable | 03:22 |
| LjL | contingo, on a purely guts feeling level... if i leave the apartment here, i'll immediately be around tons of people who may be breathing out viral particles. if i leave the apartment in the alps, i have all sorts of ways to avoid people, also we can use our car more freely. there's still the issue of having to go to stores for food in both cases, though. | 03:22 |
| contingo | what about the nearest hospital? | 03:23 |
| LjL | contingo, ten minutes away in an ambulance, but it's a very small hospital | 03:23 |
| LjL | i mean in the alps | 03:23 |
| LjL | here it will likely depend on where the nearest non-full hospital is going to be | 03:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 01:48: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English Coronavirus Live Updates: South Korean Cases Spike, and Fear Builds The New York Times Coronavirus Update: Cases Leap Again In South Korea, As Officials Warn Africa : Goats and Soda [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/RwIQ7C | 03:24 |
| LjL | i'll try to sleep a bit now maybe, although my stomach is cramping | 03:24 |
| contingo | it might sound nuts to you but I'd kind of want to go to Singapore | 03:25 |
| contingo | ok, rest well | 03:25 |
| LjL | well we're soon going to have more cases than them | 03:25 |
| LjL | 79 vs 85 for now | 03:25 |
| contingo | yeah | 03:26 |
| LjL | thinking about singapore i'd kind of be scared by the ruthless measures i'd imagine them to put in place, but then, italy seems to be going the rather serious route too | 03:26 |
| LjL | oh our PM has also announced we're keeping Schengen open =) | 03:27 |
| LjL | too bad the other countries probably aren't! | 03:27 |
| LjL | contingo, some people on r/italy are being all like, london probably has a ton of cases but they simply aren't testing people unless they were in china, here they're doing it differently and being open about the numbers so that's why we have more cases than everyone else in europe | 03:29 |
| LjL | seems a bit like wishful thinking or something, but don't shoot the messenger | 03:29 |
| LjL | although it does seem likely there are many near-asymptomatic cases all over europe by now... | 03:30 |
| contingo | given the same conditions of trappedness I'd rather be in Singapore than here | 03:30 |
| LjL | i'd probably rather be somewhere in scandinavia i guess | 03:35 |
| LjL | but i dunno | 03:35 |
| LjL | it's not like a pandemic is something i've given much thought before | 03:35 |
| LjL | really a war was more on my radar | 03:35 |
| LjL | and i say that as a "not very much on my radar" thing | 03:36 |
| LjL | %wik The Betrothed | 03:37 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, specify one of the following: The Betrothed (1923 film) — The Betrothed (1941 film) — The Betrothed (1964 film) — The Betrothed (Manzoni novel) — The Betrothed (Scott novel) — The Betrothed (miniseries) — The Betrothed (poem) — Betrothal — Betrothed (short story) | 03:37 |
| LjL | %wik The Betrothed (Manzoni novel) | 03:37 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: The Betrothed (Italian: I promessi sposi [i proˈmessi ˈspɔːzi]) is an Italian historical novel by Alessandro Manzoni, first published in 1827, in three volumes. It has been called the most famous and widely read novel in the Italian language. [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Betrothed_(Manzoni_novel) | 03:37 |
| contingo | I'd was quite focused on it as a highly probable thing to see in my lifetime, when I was a bio student | 03:38 |
| LjL | when you have a hammer all you see is nails, etc | 03:38 |
| contingo | but I did delve quite deeply into what it would take to have an absolutely worst case scenario, a hemorrhagic fever with like 80% mortality that is airborne transmissible and with a total penetration infection rate | 03:39 |
| contingo | i assessed it as actually being very highly improbable | 03:40 |
| contingo | then I've observed media hysteria over swine flu, SARS, zika, and the ebola outbreaks | 03:41 |
| contingo | and yeah it was off my radar too lately | 03:41 |
| contingo | west nile virus too, that was supposed to be endemic in London by now according to early 2000s tabloids | 03:44 |
| LjL | i'm so not sleeping | 03:48 |
| LjL | i can feel my jaw hurt from past clenching or present clenching i am not realizing i'm doing | 03:49 |
| LjL | and it's like someone has turned my stomach into a bowtie | 03:49 |
| contingo | take more benzos | 04:00 |
| contingo | how many covid-19 subreddits are there? | 04:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus at 02:02: BNO news has been the real MVP so far: Just amazing work in keeping up the most timely updates. One of the rare bright spots so far amidst all the doom and gloom. — from Google News at 02:02: Coronavirus cases spike in South Korea and Italy, as China outbreak continues to grow - CNN International → https://is.gd/EdWp1l | 04:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 02:57: Coronavirus: Italy imposes strict lockdown in outbreak hotspots - BBC News: Coronavirus: Italy imposes strict lockdown in outbreak hotspots BBC News A dozen towns in northern Italy are locked down after coronavirus deaths USA TODAY Coronavirus: northern Italian towns close schools and businesses The Guardian Coronavirus in [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/XlG2ms | 04:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 03:29: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English Coronavirus Live Updates: South Korean Cases Spike, and Fear Builds The New York Times Coronavirus Update: Cases Leap Again In South Korea, As Officials Warn Africa : Goats and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/RwIQ7C | 05:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/CoVid19 at 09:30: COVID19: Inactivating porcine coronavirus before nuclei acid isolation with the temperature higher than 56 °C damages its genome integrity seriously — from Google News at 09:30: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English → https://is.gd/LMFOcv | 10:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 13:08: (news): Coronavirus updates: South Korea declares ?red alert? over growing coronavirus outbreak as China says most new cases limited to Hubei - The - The Washington Post — from Google News at 13:08: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English → https://is.gd/J1zi2B | 14:13 |
| contingo | %w ipotetic | 14:29 |
| Brainstorm | contingo, I haven't loaded the spellchecker yet, I'll tell you in a minute! | 14:29 |
| Brainstorm | contingo, Romanian spelling suggestions: ipotetic, ipotetica, ipotetice, ipotetici (aspell/ro) | 14:29 |
| contingo | hello theglass | 14:35 |
| theglass | hi contingo | 14:36 |
| theglass | how's it going? | 14:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 13:14: (news): Coronavirus updates: South Korea declares 'red alert' over growing coronavirus outbreak as China says most new cases limited to Hubei - The - The Washington Post → https://is.gd/J1zi2B | 14:41 |
| contingo | I'm good theglass how are you? are you near an affected area? | 14:48 |
| LjL | Governor says he doesn't foresee a lockdown of Milan, but what else would he say... In Wuhan they announced it in advance and all they got was obviously people fleeing | 14:56 |
| contingo | well that's not all they got | 14:59 |
| contingo | but yeah | 14:59 |
| LjL | Well, he actually followed it with "should we reach phase two, the drasric measures taken in Wuhan were effective, so we should consider that then" | 15:00 |
| contingo | did you see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dDD2tHWWnU&feature=youtu.be LjL | 15:00 |
| LjL | I'm trying to warn my parents but my mom just gets angry and says "should I just panic before anything has happened", well no, but surely we can still prepare somehow? | 15:01 |
| LjL | contingo: no, I've seen comparative graphs though. Right now many key politicians are talking on TV so I kinda want to read between their lines | 15:02 |
| LjL | My parents went to the supermarket again. At least they bought disposable gloves | 15:02 |
| LjL | Evidently those are not out of stock yet, but they said they got them because they nearly are | 15:03 |
| contingo | what's the definition of Phase Two | 15:04 |
| theglass | no, I'm in the south | 15:11 |
| LjL | contingo: without using their nonword words, I believe it means uncontrolled spread in Milan | 15:11 |
| theglass | at the moment | 15:11 |
| contingo | I wonder how many phases there are | 15:12 |
| contingo | OK theglass | 15:12 |
| theglass | nonetheless I'm worried | 15:13 |
| LjL | contingo: when the anchor asked what it will means exactly to be under lockdown and whether people will still be able to go to the supermarket and the like, the head of civil protection gave a nonanswer first, then when she insisted, he made a gesture and magically the audio link was no longer working | 15:13 |
| theglass | since my area is affected right now | 15:13 |
| theglass | I had to leave in the past days and now I'm kind of stuck | 15:14 |
| contingo | that seems like pretty bad communication preparedness | 15:14 |
| LjL | contingo: this reporter tends to be somewhat "aggressive" and unforgiving when interviewees don't actually answer | 15:17 |
| theglass | the overwhelming Lucia Annunziata | 15:19 |
| contingo | in singapore, the PM gave this lengthy statement: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/coronavirus-pm-lee-hsien-loong-on-the-coronavirus-situation-in-singapore | 15:19 |
| LjL | How did you possibly guess | 15:19 |
| contingo | which was broadcast everywhere | 15:19 |
| LjL | contingo: we've passed Singapore now haven't we | 15:19 |
| LjL | I haven't looked at today's map | 15:19 |
| contingo | you should read his statement and then try to picture a european head of state giving a statement like that | 15:20 |
| contingo | some of the stats he gives seem on the optimistic side but overall it's pretty measured I feel | 15:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 14:19: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English Coronavirus Update: Cases Leap Again In South Korea, As Officials Warn Africa : Goats and Soda NPR China encourages citizens to return to work as coronavirus hits economy The [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/RwIQ7C | 15:24 |
| contingo | I have heard nothing from a Western head of state that approaches this level of candour | 15:25 |
| theglass | LjL: how close are you to the quarantined zone? | 15:26 |
| contingo | but then, he's in a position of complete authority over a highly developed city state which indeed is extremely well-prepared for a situation like this, compared to other countries | 15:27 |
| LjL | theglass: Milan | 15:27 |
| theglass | ah ok | 15:27 |
| contingo | that's one reason I'd want to go there | 15:27 |
| LjL | contingo: I'm reading, I notice among other things he says there's no need to stock toilet paper, it struck me because it was one of the "preparedness" things someone mentioned and that I'd honestly not have thought of | 15:28 |
| LjL | Schools will be closed in almost all the northern regions btw | 15:29 |
| LjL | contingo: well his speech is sober, but in a more Italian way, the various authorities being interviewed now are making similar statements... less single-handely, a bit more haphazardly, but the thing is also she is interviewing them as they become available, because most of them are in meetings and coming down to be interviewed when they have a chance. Our PM made a much shorter statement basically only saying the decree passed last night forbids movement in | 15:35 |
| LjL | the affected area. I think we have more of a tradition of longer statements being delivered by the head of Civil Protection or the Minister of Health etc | 15:35 |
| LjL | I can appreciate his "if x then y, otherwise not y" approach | 15:36 |
| LjL | But it's been similar with the interviews here, just with a little more nudging by the interviewer | 15:36 |
| contingo | fair enough | 15:37 |
| contingo | the citizens of singapore are largely accustomed to being told what to do, and very proud of the results of their system of governance | 15:38 |
| contingo | so this approach works well for them | 15:38 |
| LjL | contingo: I realize it seems surreal that we went from no circulating cases to top four infected countries... I ask myself questions too, but I think you know that even without incompetence, this virus can just pop up from many asymptomatic people | 15:39 |
| LjL | contingo: well, yeah, maybe the difference lies more in what people will do in reaction to the speech, than in the contents of the speech itself | 15:39 |
| LjL | Unlike them we haven't had a problem like this to my memory so I don't really know how Italians are going to react | 15:40 |
| contingo | they generally feel reassured and follow the guidance given in the speech | 15:40 |
| contingo | speaking to all my singaporean relatives | 15:40 |
| LjL | We have a higher distrust of authorities without a doubt | 15:41 |
| LjL | Maybe free thinking is counterproductive for fighting epidemics but I kind of prefer it anyway... although sometimes it's a little too "free" in terms of people talking out of their asses | 15:42 |
| contingo | generally if you're a SIngaporean who hates Singapore, you're free-thinking/smart enough to leverage their good education system to get out of Singapore | 15:42 |
| LjL | Nice, this Italian doctor in Florida said "each inappropriately alarmist word said by the media burns something like one million euro" | 15:45 |
| LjL | I have a feeling what she said probably burned one million euro | 15:45 |
| LjL | WHO is sending an inspection team to Italy | 15:46 |
| LjL | This just in, apparently | 15:46 |
| LjL | The same doctor also said her impression based on the sudden rise in cases and being unable to find patient zero is that the infection is MUCH more widespread than believed in Italy, but also that that's a good thing because it means most people are mild or asymptomatic | 15:48 |
| contingo | yeah | 15:51 |
| contingo | they should do some random (but targeted) testing in highly populated areas of interest | 15:52 |
| LjL | contingo: kinda arguing with my dad due to your ethanol enquiry yesterday... It took me a while to convince him that you can't possibly know what's legal to sell here, anyway he says denaturated alcohol is essentially ethanol with a methanol addition, and it's used also as a disinfectant in hospitals (I doubt that), and also the wound disinfectants we have at home are similar (I doubt that too, I remember their ingredients listing various alcohols but | 16:03 |
| LjL | different ones) | 16:03 |
| LjL | Anyway, it all began with him mentioning that there was no denaturated alcohol left at the supermarkets they went to | 16:03 |
| LjL | We have some though | 16:04 |
| contingo | you can use isopropyl alcohol (as opposed to ethanol) to sterilize surfaces and objects, but I would try to avoid much skin contact with it, despite the fact it's an additive in many hand sanitizer gels | 16:04 |
| LjL | What would be the obvious targets for that? I'm thinking phones and keyboards... | 16:05 |
| LjL | I still have no clue what/why they're spraying all over streets in Korea and China, I'd kinda like to know what that really is about :/ | 16:06 |
| contingo | door handles, window handles | 16:06 |
| contingo | desktops | 16:06 |
| contingo | sex toys | 16:06 |
| LjL | contingo: what about clothes? I tend to open door handles (not the ones in my home) with my jacket, and likewise to hold myself to the rails in the metro. But then I should treat my jacket as contaminated every time... | 16:07 |
| contingo | isopropanol = isopropyl alcohol = rubbing alcohol should be widely available | 16:07 |
| LjL | Oh rubbing alcohol. Autoclesis said that was what you meant by ethanol, good thing I listen to Autoclesis | 16:08 |
| contingo | well it can be both | 16:08 |
| LjL | I don't know if we have that though. We probably have sanitizing sprays that contain it. Perhaps I should make an inventory of ingredients in all the cleaning things we have | 16:08 |
| contingo | but rubbing alcohol formulated with ethanol is not available here | 16:09 |
| contingo | you would be able to get it from like an electronics shop | 16:09 |
| contingo | https://windowcleaningwarehouse.co.uk/products/isopropanol-5l | 16:10 |
| contingo | https://www.shinyhardware.co.uk/product-category/chemicals/isopropanol/ | 16:10 |
| LjL | %tr L'alcool isopropilico è usato comunemente come detergente, come blando disinfettante cutaneo (rubbing alcohol) al pari dell'alcol etilico denaturato | 16:10 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: Isopropyl alcohol is commonly used as a detergent, as a mild skin disinfectant (rubbing alcohol) like denatured ethyl alcohol (MyMemory, Google) — The alcohol *isopropilico #be used commonly like detergent, like *blando cutaneous disinfectant (*rubbing *alcohol) to the look like of the alcohol *etilico *denaturato (Apertium) | 16:11 |
| LjL | This seems to imply denaturated alcohol is in fact used as a hand disinfectant | 16:11 |
| LjL | Ugh my dad is going to ANOTHER supermarket | 16:11 |
| contingo | yes, but it depends on the formulation, and people warn against using it too much | 16:12 |
| contingo | https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/novel-coronavirus-guidance-environmental-cleaning-non-healthcare-facilities.pdf | 16:12 |
| contingo | for clothes most treatments risk messing up your clothes | 16:13 |
| contingo | like a 90ºC washing machine cycle | 16:13 |
| LjL | I guess we just shouldn't touch clothes that have touched the outdoors | 16:13 |
| LjL | When I come home I usually change my pants and ditch the jacket, which covers what's likely to touch things outside | 16:14 |
| LjL | But my dad is careless, barely washes his hands, and wears shoes inside :/ | 16:14 |
| contingo | if it came to me worrying about clothes, bedclothes, I would use items I don't mind being gradually ruined and subject them to hot washes and bleach soakings | 16:15 |
| LjL | Most of the cleaners we have that I'm looking at are just based on water and surfactants... | 16:15 |
| LjL | contingo: I'm afraid we don't have such an abundance of winter jackets, I basically have one | 16:16 |
| contingo | but if it came that level of concern about uncontained spread for me, I'd rather hurry up and get exposed | 16:16 |
| contingo | my household situation is different, however | 16:18 |
| LjL | contingo: if I were on my own I think I'd also like to just get it over with, at least assuming immunity does build up afterwards | 16:18 |
| LjL | %wik benzoxonio cloruro | 16:18 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, no such article found on the English Wikipedia | 16:19 |
| LjL | Meh | 16:19 |
| LjL | %eik :it benzoxonio cloruro | 16:19 |
| LjL | Ugh OK nevermind | 16:19 |
| LjL | contingo: I assume hydrogen peroxide is also not great to keep rubbing on one's hands | 16:19 |
| LjL | Uh looks like we have a disinfectant soap bar, but I have no idea what these ingredients are | 16:20 |
| LjL | %tr <it triclorocarbanilide | 16:21 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: trichlorocarbanilide (MyMemory, Google) | 16:21 |
| LjL | %wik trichlorocarbanilide | 16:21 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, no such article found on the Slovenian Wikipedia | 16:21 |
| LjL | Oh for fucks sake | 16:21 |
| LjL | Oookaaay first thing I found googling that was https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/new-concern-over-antibacterial-soap-triclocarban-additive-boosts-hormone-effects-university/ | 16:23 |
| theglass | amuchina was such a thing | 16:25 |
| theglass | back in the days | 16:25 |
| theglass | when there still was amuchina | 16:26 |
| LjL | contingo: I found a spray disinfectant with 30g isopropyl alcohol over 100g, plus lower amounts of some other things | 16:26 |
| theglass | amuchina was "tanta roba", learn it contingo | 16:26 |
| LjL | theglass: yeah amuchina is only €90 on amazon now | 16:26 |
| LjL | This looks vaguely promising but there's not much of it left https://framapic.org/NF9prKzC3y4b/eMBFRBgU10R4 | 16:28 |
| contingo | can you really not find 99.9% isopropanol? | 16:30 |
| contingo | then you can formulate at will | 16:31 |
| LjL | contingo: no idea where, you said electronics shops but we basically only have stores full of phones and computers but not components or anything, the one actual electronics store I knew of that sold things like cables by the meter and components is only wholesale now | 16:31 |
| contingo | as you can see they just sell it by the litre here | 16:31 |
| contingo | the two links I posted were just arbitrary | 16:32 |
| LjL | contingo: they do seem to still have it on prime, for €17 per 500ml | 16:33 |
| contingo | go for it | 16:33 |
| LjL | There's also a 70% solution sols for nail something | 16:34 |
| contingo | I can get 10000ml for £27.98 | 16:34 |
| contingo | probably varnish dissolver. they often use acetone as the solvent here | 16:34 |
| LjL | theglass: Conte is at Annunziata | 16:35 |
| theglass | ah | 16:35 |
| theglass | let me see | 16:35 |
| LjL | He's physically at the civil protection hq | 16:36 |
| contingo | do you have a water filtration or distillation device? | 16:39 |
| theglass | I think he's right when he says that numbers in italy are higher than other european countries' jsut because we perform more controls on hospital's population | 16:45 |
| theglass | was also my impression | 16:46 |
| theglass | on hospitals population and in general | 16:46 |
| LjL | contingo, no, we normally use bottled water although tap water is drinkable but very hard and not great tasting | 16:47 |
| theglass | like tampons and so on | 16:47 |
| theglass | oh no, tampons was another thing XD | 16:47 |
| LjL | theglass, maybe, i'm a little dubious when people say we're just doing better than other countries by doing worse | 16:47 |
| LjL | tests works | 16:47 |
| contingo | I used distilled water for my own formulations | 16:48 |
| contingo | in a domestic context | 16:48 |
| LjL | contingo, formulations of disinfectants? our bottled water is extremely low-residue | 16:48 |
| theglass | ah tests works | 16:48 |
| theglass | ora swabs | 16:48 |
| LjL | we might have some distilled water as we used to use it for ironing, but really we've been using bottled water for a long time instead because it's actually cheaper | 16:48 |
| LjL | theglass, you can use "%tr <it blah" to get english from italian from google translate if you want | 16:49 |
| contingo | yes. but it's mainly because 1. I have it lying around anyway, because I have a good water distiller and I use distilled water for various other things (v fussy houseplants); 2. I have an entrenched lab worker's mentality when it comes to stuff like this | 16:51 |
| LjL | i know what swabs means but it didn't come to me, it's funny i use a lot of english but it ends up in not knowing the english for an italian word half of the time, and not knowing the italian for an english word the other half | 16:51 |
| LjL | (despite knowing the meanings, i mean) | 16:51 |
| theglass | or swabs | 16:51 |
| theglass | swab is the right term I believe | 16:51 |
| theglass | uhm | 16:52 |
| LjL | bleh my laptop failed to charge last night :\ | 16:52 |
| theglass | %tr <it tampone | 16:52 |
| Brainstorm | theglass, Italian to English: buffer (MateCat, Google) — BUFFER (MateCat) — Tampon (Apertium) | 16:52 |
| theglass | ah buffer | 16:52 |
| theglass | was easy | 16:53 |
| LjL | theglass, buffer i wrong | 16:53 |
| LjL | is* | 16:53 |
| theglass | simple | 16:53 |
| LjL | you should use google translate with a sentence or at least an expression in general | 16:53 |
| LjL | single words don't work well | 16:53 |
| LjL | otherwise just use wiktionary | 16:54 |
| LjL | btw not sure about other papers, but https://www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2020/02/22/news/coronavirus_in_italia_aggiornamento_ora_per_ora-249241616/ is getting updated pretty often... don't know if they have an rss feed i could add to the bot, though, i don't see one | 16:54 |
| Spec | is it pandemic time yet | 16:55 |
| LjL | ADDIRITTURA le messe della domenica cancellate! | 16:56 |
| LjL | %tr | 16:56 |
| LjL | jesus christ indeed | 16:56 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: Even the Sunday masses canceled! (MyMemory, Google) — ABOVE the masses of the Sunday erased! (Apertium) | 16:56 |
| contingo | i'm going to go to the gym, and then to a bustling oriental food court for dinner, on the other side of london, which will involve tons of public transport and changing at a major international train station | 16:56 |
| LjL | contingo, good luck? | 16:56 |
| contingo | i'll probably remember to wash my hands when I get to the food court | 16:57 |
| theglass | ABOVE the masses | 16:57 |
| theglass | asd | 16:57 |
| LjL | theglass, apertium is an open source translator, it's pretty... well... something | 16:57 |
| Spec | contingo: do you have a supply of alcohol-based sanitizer | 16:57 |
| Spec | perhaps high powered portable UV LED array to wave around at everything? | 16:57 |
| Spec | would that even be effective? :D | 16:58 |
| LjL | uh they're adding another town to the quarantine? theglass, the reporter just said "we at RAI were also told to be cautious in entering this area which is about to be quarantined" | 16:58 |
| LjL | i thought it wasn't a good idea to announce quarantines in advance | 16:58 |
| Spec | i'm not sure i'd like to be under quarantine | 16:59 |
| theglass | hope it won't be Venice | 16:59 |
| Spec | i should buy more noods | 16:59 |
| Spec | and canned foods :( | 16:59 |
| LjL | "the mobile checkpoints for now are advicing those passing them that in a short while they won't be able to leave" | 17:00 |
| LjL | wtf | 17:00 |
| contingo | I do have a UV LED array, but it's for fluorescing cool minerals and arthropods and has low output at sterilizing wavelengths | 17:00 |
| Spec | should i buy 5 cases of MREs? | 17:00 |
| Spec | not sure i wanna be constipated during quarantine | 17:01 |
| LjL | :\ | 17:01 |
| LjL | we have lots of medicines but i feel we'll be out of the important ones | 17:01 |
| Spec | i should have bought the 25lb bag of rice | 17:01 |
| Spec | i regret not doing that | 17:01 |
| Spec | LjL: lol, i got two huge bottles of ibuprofen, i'm set | 17:01 |
| LjL | Spec, so is your stomach | 17:02 |
| contingo | I have about 50lb of various rices | 17:02 |
| Spec | good deal | 17:02 |
| Spec | and dried beans? | 17:02 |
| LjL | deprem | 17:02 |
| LjL | inbefore | 17:02 |
| Spec | deprem? | 17:03 |
| LjL | Spec, wrong channel | 17:04 |
| contingo | some canned beans | 17:05 |
| contingo | lots of everything really | 17:07 |
| contingo | an exotic seashell collection | 17:08 |
| contingo | a piano | 17:08 |
| contingo | an impressive spotted begonia | 17:08 |
| contingo | I depart | 17:08 |
| theglass | bye contingo | 17:09 |
| Spec | contingo: laters | 17:09 |
| Spec | begonias are nice | 17:09 |
| theglass | time to play to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quarantine_(video_game) | 17:12 |
| theglass | what a great idea putting it on the archive | 17:14 |
| theglass | https://archive.org/details/msdos_Quarantine_1994 | 17:14 |
| LjL | Spec, do you think putting the bacteria song in the topic would be inappropriate | 17:19 |
| LjL | ... because it's not bacteria? | 17:19 |
| Spec | hehehe | 17:27 |
| Spec | theglass: i just played some plague, inc last night :P | 17:27 |
| Spec | theglass: gonna get a pandemic board game started soon | 17:27 |
| theglass | I forgot plague.. I just found a clone of it anywat | 17:29 |
| theglass | anyway* | 17:29 |
| theglass | on steam | 17:29 |
| theglass | an it's called "Quarantine", nonetheless | 17:29 |
| theglass | and* | 17:29 |
| Spec | any better? | 17:34 |
| theglass | I don't know I just watched some of the videos and it seems pretty much the same | 17:36 |
| theglass | the only thing is that is from 2017 | 17:36 |
| theglass | in plague you had to stop the pandemy, right? | 17:36 |
| theglass | or was it about just staying alive? | 17:37 |
| theglass | surviving | 17:37 |
| theglass | pandemic* | 17:40 |
| Spec | theglass: do you like boardgames? | 17:45 |
| Spec | pandemic you are team of scientists trying to stop 4 strains of pandemic | 17:45 |
| Spec | there's a board game that's...faster but more complicated, a sort of deck building game that's pretty fun | 17:45 |
| theglass | I used to, a long time ago | 17:45 |
| Spec | called Pathogenesis | 17:46 |
| Spec | it's a fun game | 17:46 |
| theglass | yeah, I imagine | 17:48 |
| theglass | seems like Magic against your body | 17:48 |
| theglass | :\ | 17:48 |
| Spec | yeah, the problem with the game though is the number of players | 17:48 |
| Spec | it's best with exactly 3 players | 17:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 16:44: Coronavirus Spreads Outside China as Officials' Worries Mount - The Wall Street Journal: Coronavirus Spreads Outside China as Officials' Worries Mount The Wall Street Journal Coronavirus infections surge in Italy, South Korea as virus kills at least 8 in Iran Fox News Coronavirus Update: Cases Leap Again In South Korea, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/0JJXGk | 18:24 |
| theglass | %more | 18:27 |
| Brainstorm | theglass, [...] As Officials Warn Africa : Goats and Soda NPR Coronavirus: South Korea declares highest alert as infections surge BBC News South Korea raises alert level to maximum, Italy and Iran cases spike CNBC View Full Coverage on Google News → https://paste.ee/p/jH7Vd | 18:27 |
| LjL | there should be posts from reddit too, the bot isn't doing what i meant it to | 18:28 |
| theglass | I just wanted to see what the %more command does | 18:29 |
| theglass | anyway, maybe in Iran the virus had probable chances to become epidemic | 18:31 |
| theglass | but I was wondering in countries like North Korea | 18:31 |
| LjL | they won't tell you | 18:31 |
| LjL | pretty sure it's already an epidemic in iran though | 18:31 |
| LjL | pretty sure it's full of cases in milan, for that matter, they just haven't found them yet | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 17:10: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English Coronavirus infections surge in Italy, South Korea as virus kills at least 8 in Iran Fox News Coronavirus Update: Cases Leap Again In South Korea, As Officials Warn Africa : Goats [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/RwIQ7C | 18:38 |
| LjL | hi WKFO | 19:16 |
| WKFO | hi LjL | 19:16 |
| LjL | theglass, i think i've found more specific information on what's going to happen, management-wise | 19:16 |
| LjL | "Il testo prevede, tra l’altro, che nei comuni o nelle aree nei quali risulta positiva almeno una persona per la quale non si conosce la fonte di trasmissione o comunque nei quali vi è un caso non riconducibile ad una persona proveniente da un’area già interessata dal contagio, le autorità competenti sono tenute ad adottare ogni misura di contenimento adeguata e proporzionata all’evolversi della situazione epidemiologica. | 19:17 |
| LjL | Tra le misure sono inclusi, tra l’altro, il divieto di allontanamento e quello di accesso al Comune o all’area interessata" | 19:17 |
| LjL | so as soon as there's a case in Milan that can't be linked to other cases, we're locked in | 19:17 |
| LjL | at least if they find enough police to block all the entrances... | 19:17 |
| LjL | but that's the theory anyway | 19:17 |
| LjL | i kinda want to yell at my parents to take the car, my sister, and we all go to the alps while we can | 19:18 |
| LjL | but no one ever really won anyone by yelling i guess | 19:19 |
| LjL | contingo, https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/f890wh/oseltamivir_lopinavir_and_ritonavir_why_do_they/ (r/covid19 is supposedly the "scientific" sub about this) | 19:26 |
| LjL | %tr <it Dei 152 positivi, ha concluso Borrelli, 55 sono ricoverati con sintomi e 25 in terapia intensiva, 19 sono in assistenza domiciliare e 27 in verifica. | 19:28 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: Of the 152 positive, Borrelli concluded, 55 are hospitalized with symptoms and 25 in intensive care, 19 are in home care and 27 in verification. (MyMemory, Google) — Of the 152 positive, #have concluded *Borrelli, 55 #be *ricoverati with symptoms and 25 in intensive therapy, 19 are in assistance *domiciliare and 27 in #check. (Apertium) | 19:28 |
| LjL | this still sounds like not at all reassuring statistics | 19:28 |
| theglass | penso dipenderà dalle ordinanze regionali.. | 20:11 |
| LjL | theglass, be' il decreto è nazionale | 20:13 |
| theglass | ma si trova? | 20:14 |
| LjL | theglass, be' quello che ho incollato l'ho preso mi pare da governo.it, non è letteralmente il testo del decreto ma è diciamo la versione tradotta... però adesso ho perso la sessione del browser | 20:16 |
| theglass | no, l'ho trovato anche tra le notizie di qualche sito | 20:16 |
| theglass | proprio quel tratto | 20:16 |
| theglass | ma non trovo il testo completo e mi interesserebbe pure | 20:17 |
| theglass | ma governo.it dici? | 20:18 |
| theglass | l'ultima delibera del cdm è del 13 febbraio | 20:19 |
| LjL | contingo, https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3051966/coronavirus-wuhan-quarantine-all-cured-patients-14-days-after although it's all up in the air still | 20:19 |
| LjL | theglass, non lo so, ho riaperto la sessione ma mi sta andando in tilt la testa onestamente | 20:20 |
| LjL | theglass, il comunicato stampa da cui ho copiato è http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/comunicato-stampa-del-consiglio-dei-ministri-n-31/14163 | 20:20 |
| theglass | ah eccolo | 20:21 |
| theglass | grazie, sì | 20:21 |
| theglass | vabbè il decreto legge uscirà più avanti forse | 20:21 |
| theglass | probabilmente anzi | 20:22 |
| LjL | theglass, l'ultima cosa che ha la gazzetta ufficiale è https://www.gazzettaufficiale.it/atto/serie_generale/caricaDettaglioAtto/originario?atto.dataPubblicazioneGazzetta=2020-02-22&atto.codiceRedazionale=20A01220&elenco30giorni=true ma questo è il decreto di ieri non quello di oggi | 20:23 |
| theglass | uhm sì | 20:24 |
| theglass | è quello che poi dice l'ordinanza di intesa con la regione | 20:26 |
| theglass | in maniera più specifica, come sempre | 20:26 |
| theglass | però ecco non dice cosa devono fare quelli che dovrebbero rientrare | 20:27 |
| theglass | in regione | 20:27 |
| theglass | non danno indicazioni in questo senso.. penso mi atterò alla mia prudenza | 20:29 |
| LjL | theglass, nei comuni in lockdown, fanno entrare ma non fanno uscire. ma quello sono solo una dozzina per ora | 20:29 |
| LjL | cioè quando entri ti avvisano che se entri non esci più | 20:30 |
| theglass | vediamo come evolve la cosa | 20:30 |
| LjL | preferirei vederlo da un'altra parte d'europa, ma così è | 20:31 |
| LjL | preferirei anche essere una persona che riesce a stare calma | 20:31 |
| theglass | ma state così nel panico adesso? | 20:34 |
| LjL | theglass, abbastanza, nei supermercati gli scaffali di roba per pulire e disinfettare sono vuoti | 20:35 |
| LjL | theglass, ho trovato il testo completo anche se la stampa non dice da dove l'ha preso https://www.lastampa.it/cronaca/2020/02/23/news/le-misure-per-contenere-il-coronavirus-ecco-il-testo-del-decreto-governativo-1.38506253 | 20:36 |
| theglass | uhm | 20:36 |
| LjL | non si riesce a trovare neanche l'alcol denaturato normale | 20:36 |
| LjL | siamo riusciti a comprare un po' di guanti usa e getta però | 20:36 |
| theglass | l) limitazione all’accesso o sospensione dei servizi del trasporto di merci e di persone terrestre, aereo, marittimo, ferroviario su rete nazionale o di trasporto pubblico locale, salvo specifiche deroghe previste dal provvedimento di cui all’articolo 3: | 20:48 |
| theglass | potrebbe essere adottata | 20:49 |
| theglass | mah, vabbè | 20:49 |
| theglass | boh penso che comunque i rifornimenti arriveranno | 20:50 |
| theglass | al limite ordina uno stock di 50 pezzi da amazon | 20:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana at 19:56: DECRETO-LEGGE 23 febbraio 2020, n.6: Misure urgenti in materia di contenimento e gestione dell'emergenzaepidemiologica da COVID-19. (20G00020) → https://is.gd/9I9Hwy | 21:00 |
| Spec | so is this virus airborne or not? | 21:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus at 20:05: Coronavirus: Coronavirus update (Feb 23) in numbers compared to yesterday (DAY TO DAY DELTA) → https://is.gd/2vi1Ig | 21:41 |
| LjL | theglass: are you listening to Fazio | 21:45 |
| LjL | Spec: officially they just say it's "mainly" transmitted by coughing and sneezing but there's plenty of indirect evidence of airborne infections, began in HK or Singapore, I forget | 21:50 |
| theglass | Fazio is the Cruelest Animal | 21:55 |
| theglass | oppure | 21:56 |
| theglass | "Fabio fazio si incula da solo con un sofisticato sistema di specchi e leve" | 21:56 |
| theglass | ecco mi vengono in mente queste cose.. credo l'ultima fosse una pagina FB qualche tempo fa | 21:57 |
| theglass | mi sembra appropriata per la puntata di stasera, tra l'altro | 21:57 |
| theglass | non che lo guardi mai | 21:58 |
| theglass | che cosa surreale comunque | 21:58 |
| theglass | lo studio vuoto | 21:58 |
| theglass | ok let's go back to english | 21:58 |
| theglass | what a surreal thing | 21:58 |
| theglass | the empty studios | 21:59 |
| theglass | all quarantined | 21:59 |
| LjL | theglass: well did you hear the mayor who has a "cold" and was denied a swab because they're out of tests already | 22:00 |
| theglass | I did I did | 22:01 |
| theglass | it's the results of the politics "only for the territory" | 22:01 |
| theglass | performed during the last 15 years | 22:02 |
| theglass | let's save the costs, let's cut and spare from here and from there | 22:02 |
| theglass | and then in front of an emergency.. | 22:02 |
| theglass | I mean, it's not wrong as a rule of thumb | 22:03 |
| LjL | Well it's not like each municipality could get a thousand tests. But seriously isn't there a national level task force with MANY tests given the advance warning Wuhan gave us? | 22:03 |
| theglass | but you have to take into account something more for emergencies | 22:04 |
| theglass | uhm no, because the SSN has been silently dismantled in favour of this "regional" thing | 22:04 |
| theglass | you can't pretend that suddenly in front of an emergency it switches back to what it was | 22:05 |
| theglass | or it acts like its "one" | 22:05 |
| theglass | the SSN now basically tries to guarantee the LEI | 22:06 |
| theglass | everything else is up to the regions | 22:06 |
| theglass | I knew it very well, unfortunately | 22:07 |
| theglass | an healthcare system are people | 22:08 |
| theglass | nothing more than people | 22:08 |
| theglass | and moreover, this big "half-life" scenario, which may or may not be a massive put on between the government and the media | 22:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Google News at 20:38: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates - Al Jazeera English: China coronavirus outbreak: All the latest updates Al Jazeera English Coronavirus infections surge in Italy, South Korea as virus kills at least 8 in Iran Fox News Coronavirus Live Updates: South Korea Raises Threat Alert Level The New York Times Xi [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/RwIQ7C | 22:32 |
| theglass | reveals another thing, which they're facing the problems "by subtraction" | 22:32 |
| theglass | let's avoid this, let's avoid that, prohibits people to, close this, close that and so on | 22:33 |
| theglass | which is not different | 22:34 |
| theglass | <theglass> let's save the costs, let's cut and spare from here and from there | 22:34 |
| theglass | from this | 22:34 |
| theglass | doing thing swithout the money | 22:34 |
| theglass | doing things without the money | 22:34 |
| theglass | which basically is bullshits because money in moments like this are of a HUGE help | 22:35 |
| LjL | theglass, spec, now there's apparently a train stopped at the austrian border because austria thinks there may be two sick people on board, and it's not going anywhere | 22:35 |
| LjL | hopefully this won't be another cruise ship | 22:35 |
| theglass | of course there will be money resources that will be allocated | 22:35 |
| theglass | but it's the MO (modus operandi) which is wrong | 22:36 |
| theglass | in my opinion | 22:36 |
| LjL | yes well i think they can't do much more than "subtractive" things right now... they should have done the "propositive" things *weeks ago* | 22:36 |
| LjL | but from what i gather so far, they haven't, so tough luck now | 22:37 |
| theglass | before an emergency you can't propose too much | 22:37 |
| theglass | I mean yes, if there still were a culture of "prevention" | 22:37 |
| theglass | probably, but this is a big emergency | 22:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/CoVid19 at 20:44: COVID19: LIVE STREAMED - Glycosylated spike (S) protein to gain entry into host cells → https://is.gd/qn4d0Q | 22:42 |
| LjL | this is pretty random... | 22:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (testing) at 22:01: China_Flu: Passenger aboard Air Canada flight to Vancouver from Montreal tests positive for COVID-19 → https://is.gd/SPipdV | 23:01 |
| LjL | Spec, https://old.reddit.com/r/China_Flu/comments/f8bzaq/shit_went_down_fast_coronavirus_diary_1/ | 23:02 |
| contingo | mama mia | 23:09 |
| contingo | observations from this evening | 23:10 |
| contingo | hmm | 23:10 |
| contingo | there are a lot of Italians in London. and a lot of Chinese. and lots of everyone | 23:10 |
| contingo | zero face masks sighted | 23:10 |
| contingo | I found myself wanting to open doors and press train buttons with my elbows but then not always doing so | 23:11 |
| LjL | sigh | 23:12 |
| contingo | in this slightly more mindful state I began noticing how much I do touch around my mouth and nose and rub my eyes and even sort of absent-mindedly gnaw on my knuckles at times | 23:12 |
| contingo | and I noticed how everyone else does too | 23:13 |
| LjL | yeah | 23:13 |
| contingo | and we were all in good spirits and the food was super yummy | 23:13 |
| LjL | i think it's pretty much impossible to change our habits in the span of two days | 23:13 |
| LjL | at the same time people tell me to treat anything touched by anything contaminated as contaminated | 23:14 |
| contingo | and I killed it at the gym | 23:14 |
| LjL | it's like we're all at 0 and they need me to be at 99999999999 | 23:14 |
| LjL | contingo, anyway i bought the isopropyl | 23:14 |
| LjL | and a power supply for my tv box since it dies when i actually try to watch a channel | 23:14 |
| contingo | OK good. You will find further uses for isopropyl if this goes away anyway | 23:15 |
| LjL | contingo, my mom also found some hand sanitizer to buy online. people on reddit are showing completely empty shelves in milan's supermarkets, but my parents went to several today and it wasn't *that* bad... | 23:15 |
| LjL | contingo, wikipedia says it's gentler with electronics than ethanol. i guess had i known, i wouldn't have already used ethanol on my new expensive walkman's pinch roller | 23:15 |
| contingo | that's why my first thought was to source it from an electronics supply place | 23:16 |
| LjL | contingo, well i could probably get it for much cheaper than €15 at the right place... but every time i go out... | 23:18 |
| contingo | it's good as a general purpose organic solvent, cleaning gummy residues on anything, also getting your insect specimens squeaky clean before you take 50+ layers focus stacks of their compound eyes | 23:18 |
| LjL | which is why i'm not super happy about my parents having visited like six supermarkets today | 23:18 |
| contingo | I think I'm just continuing as usual | 23:21 |
| contingo | I'm resigned to whatever | 23:21 |
| contingo | although I'll probably revise that attitude if actual death approaches | 23:22 |
| LjL | contingo, it didn't change my ideas on the matter, but it certainly changed the mental state | 23:33 |
| LjL | %title https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/austria-stops-all-trains-to-and-from-italy-amid-europes-biggest-coronavirus-outbreak/ar-BB10ivPo | 23:36 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.msn.com: Austria stops all trains to and from Italy amid Europe's biggest coronavirus outbreak | 23:36 |
| LjL | and again, everyone in the picture wearing a mask | 23:36 |
| LjL | well not everyone, but a few | 23:36 |
| LjL | two of them look like they have a respirator, a third is just a surgical mask | 23:36 |
| LjL | no make them three and two | 23:37 |
| contingo | all trains... why not just all everything | 23:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (testing) at 22:40: Travel to Italy and tourism: My parents are coming to Europe and in our itinerary we have been booked several Italian cities like , Rome , Florence , bologna , Venice , Lago di Garda and Turin Unfortunately Italian coronavirus came out of nowhere and they are already on their way to Europe , atm I'm moving the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/xT8ppd | 23:41 |
| LjL | contingo, mainly because one train had suspected sick on it | 23:43 |
| LjL | it now appears to be stranded on the tracks with 300 people on board | 23:43 |
| LjL | @stupid reddit person: no, obviously don't go to italy now | 23:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (testing) at 22:51: Coronavirus: 2nd Iran confirmed case in Canada: Passenger from Iran on flight from Montreal to Vancouver tests positive for new coronavirus → https://is.gd/7uUnnz | 23:52 |
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