ryouma | wasn't aware of that. i'm sure there is nonreproducibility there too though if it is e.g. imaging. | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
lapsang | Philosophy, Psychology, and Neuroscience are all united in this principle. That's very rare. | 00:00 |
lapsang | not at all | 00:00 |
ryouma | neuroscience is not neurology | 00:00 |
lapsang | Authoritarians conduct thoughts primarily with their lizard brain | 00:00 |
ryouma | ah that | 00:00 |
LjL | Austria is (finally?) instituting health checks at the border with Italy | 00:01 |
LjL | probably late for y'all python476 | 00:01 |
lapsang | especially any provocative or contradictory thought | 00:01 |
thebope | My parents are coming into NYC this weekend :/, hope they miss it | 00:03 |
thebope | They're not taking it very seriously even though they're washing their hands a lot I guess | 00:03 |
aradesh | ryouma = dragon horse, from shogi? | 00:10 |
aradesh | 竜馬 | 00:10 |
joatds[m] | <LjL "probably late for y'all python47"> The infection in Italy spread in January (Italian study), a month before the " first" case | 00:11 |
LjL | joatds[m], i know, was just joking a bit | 00:11 |
LjL | Germany kindly said that while they expect a full blown epidemic now, it's "not Italy's fault" | 00:11 |
LjL | i guess that's nice of them | 00:11 |
tinwhiskers | heh | 00:11 |
aradesh | ^^ | 00:12 |
LjL | technically they're right though since they had clusters that got out of control... just slower than ours | 00:12 |
ubLIX | heh. so much for doubling every 5 days. scotland yesterday: 3; scotland today; 11 | 00:14 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 23:13 UTC: /u/slakmehl: ABC News Politics su Twitter: "BREAKING: 21 people on Grand Princess cruise ship docked off the California coast tested positive for coronavirus, including 19 crew members and two passengers, Vice Pres. Mike Pence says. 24 people tested negative. https://t.co/u7FlBwtOQU… https://t.co/1aVSFOQaCx" → https://is.gd/4dwPbb | 00:15 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 US: +33 cases (now 305) 🔶 World: +33 cases (now 101961) | 00:17 |
adventurer | . | 00:19 |
tinwhiskers | Well, other than the terrible music, that video by "the russian guy" in china and into Hubei was quite fascinating. https://youtu.be/A1yXTlvTB08?t=682 | 00:20 |
LjL | uhm... why would US give a case update without individual counties, did i mess up even in my attempt to revert the code | 00:20 |
tinwhiskers | we're so screwed if it takes what China has pulled off to contain the virus. | 00:24 |
ryouma | wasn't aware that tehre was a move or piece in shogi called that. historical figure. helped end feudalism. 16:10 <aradesh> ryouma = dragon horse, from shogi? | 00:25 |
ryouma | (i prefer go) | 00:25 |
aradesh | ryouma: there is a piece that when promoted becomuse ryuuma | 00:26 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Hong Kong, Hong Kong: +1 cases (now 107) 🔸 US: +4 cases (now 309) 🔸 King County, WA, US: +7 cases (now 58) 🔸 Los Angeles, CA, US: +2 cases (now 13) 🔸 Placer County, CA, US: +3 cases (now 5) 🔸 Snohomish County, WA, US: +1 cases (now 19) 🔸 World: +5 cases (now 101966) | 00:28 |
aradesh | %covid italy | 00:28 |
Brainstorm | aradesh: In Italy, there are 4636 cases, 197 deaths (4.2% of cases), 523 recoveries as of Fri Mar 6 18:33:03 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 00:28 |
aradesh | graph doesn't look very comforting | 00:29 |
aradesh | why has china's infection count levelled off so much? | 00:30 |
aradesh | have they just stopped confirming cases? | 00:30 |
aradesh | find it hard to believe that it has run its course there | 00:31 |
LjL | aradesh, thank you for the understatement | 00:32 |
LjL | aradesh, also, enable Korea on top of it, just to see some slight difference among the overall similarities. then try Iran for kicks | 00:33 |
ryouma | is it reasonable to test a sample of everybody who enters a hospital or a supermarket or something in various places aroudn the us, for example? | 00:35 |
python476 | you think china is shutting all reports ? | 00:36 |
python476 | https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1235886017674125314?s=21 <= told you 100k would make the news | 00:36 |
LjL | ryouma, i am not entirely sure why random-sample tests aren't made | 00:36 |
LjL | i was just thinking today it seemed a very reasonable idea | 00:37 |
python476 | hi ryouma | 00:37 |
fructose | https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/14/business/wuhan-coronavirus-journalists.html | 00:37 |
LjL | get rid of all these lingering doubts about how many asymptomatics there are | 00:37 |
fructose | That kind of thing seems like reason to be concerned | 00:37 |
LjL | but maybe you'd need too big a sample, since the infected are probably still a tiny portion | 00:37 |
LjL | aradesh, personally i believe China's numbers are more or less reflecting of reality, and of the very harsh measures they've adopted all over the place there... but a few people seem to share your perplexities | 00:38 |
python476 | fructose: thanks | 00:38 |
python476 | thanks for the chinese govt too | 00:38 |
python476 | without who nothing would have been possible | 00:38 |
python476 | <o/ \o> | 00:38 |
tinwhiskers | When you're a video blogger, for whatever reason you may go missing (get covid-19, hit by a bus, forcibly 'quarantined') if will necessarily be after posting a video, so that doesn't count for a lot. Still, interesting links. | 00:43 |
aradesh | LjL: hmm ok | 00:43 |
aradesh | well it's good they've been able to stop it spreading then... | 00:43 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Spain: +1 cases (now 401) 🔸 World: +1 cases (now 101967) | 00:43 |
tinwhiskers | Also, considering his last words were "All citizens resist, hand power back to the people.”, then yeah, it's likely he got arrested. | 00:45 |
tinwhiskers | But that therefore has nothing to do with the "Chinese shutting all reports". That was political, not coverage of the virus. | 00:46 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, i recall reading some 15 year old kid got stormed by the police (not arrested, but his DNA was taken during the raid) for posting a Taiwan flag on Twitter | 00:46 |
tinwhiskers | They don't muck around :-) | 00:47 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 23:47 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: 2 new cases in Ontario, Canada, national total 50 confirmed cases → https://is.gd/S8dFYB | 00:48 |
LjL | i finally found some data about the locations of cases in Lombardy and the ages of the people infected and dead, as well as the amount of people in ICU etc | 00:55 |
LjL | it's not encouraging, but at least it's good i found it since i was looking for it and getting frustrated before | 00:56 |
joatds[m] | Nice | 00:56 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Cameroon: +1 cases (now 2) 🔸 Canada: +1 cases (now 52) 🔸 World: +2 cases (now 101969) | 00:58 |
LjL | now i'd like to find the source (since i only found the same map and data posted on several news sites) so i can tap into it... it's almost certainly somewhere in the region's website, but that's an adventure to navigate | 00:58 |
LjL | Cameroon | 00:58 |
joatds[m] | One of the "Red zone" as they called it is Codogno | 01:00 |
contingocat | red zones sound bad | 01:01 |
joatds[m] | They are the zones in which the virus spread most | 01:01 |
joatds[m] | They were in quarantine , at least since last week | 01:02 |
joatds[m] | Then I didn't check anymore | 01:02 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: this? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1099389/coronavirus-deaths-by-region-in-italy/ | 01:03 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, no, that's a cheap one | 01:04 |
tinwhiskers | Oh, you mean within Lombardy. My bad | 01:04 |
iz | dang LjL 197 deaths now? | 01:04 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, i have them per province, but more importantly, statistics on ages and pathologies etc | 01:04 |
LjL | i'm reading, i'll provide | 01:04 |
LjL | iz, yes | 01:04 |
tinwhiskers | I see | 01:04 |
LjL | joatds[m], they are still quarantined | 01:04 |
LjL | there's just two | 01:05 |
LjL | with talks of adding a third | 01:05 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 23:55 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: 1 new case in Alberta, Canada, national total 51 → https://is.gd/xtb6gT | 01:05 |
LjL | https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iss.it%2Fen%2Fcomunicati-stampa%2F-%2Fasset_publisher%2FfjTKmjJgSgdK%2Fcontent%2Fid%2F5286166 | 01:05 |
LjL | what did i always say about mundane things like high blood pressure hiding between the claim almost all patients had "comorbidities", Spec, contingocat? | 01:06 |
LjL | now that says, the most represented comorbidity is hypertension. surprise! | 01:06 |
LjL | " The median time from the onset of symptoms to hospitalization was 5 days and the median of the time between hospitalization and death was 4 days." ← that's pretty quick as far as death goes... based on what i remember from other countries | 01:06 |
lapsang | LjL - it appears to do actual heart muscle damage | 01:07 |
LjL | "Although preliminary, these data confirm the observations made so far in the rest of the world on the main characteristics of patients" ← uhm well no not really but okay | 01:07 |
LjL | lapsang, that's a new one, who claims that? | 01:07 |
lapsang | male anatomy, too | 01:07 |
adventurer | lapsang, do you have a link about this? | 01:08 |
LjL | and then they have a press report saying (boasting?) that our mortality rate is lower than china's | 01:08 |
lapsang | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0A0LyMru3I&feature=youtu.be&t=113 | 01:08 |
LjL | neglecting to mention it's higher than... everyone else | 01:08 |
lapsang | ^ 3 COVID-19 Cases As Described By Doctors In China | 01:09 |
LjL | and... uh... it's not even true, lol | 01:09 |
LjL | my government are utter morons | 01:09 |
LjL | well this isn't the government, but close enough | 01:09 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, contingocat, Spec: i have no words, look at this https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iss.it%2Fen%2Fcomunicati-stampa%2F-%2Fasset_publisher%2FfjTKmjJgSgdK%2Fcontent%2Fid%2F5288119%3F_com_liferay_asset_publisher_web_portlet_AssetPublisherPortlet_INSTANCE_fjTKmjJgSgdK_redirect%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.iss.it%252Fcomunicati-stampa%253Fp_p_id%253Dcom_liferay_asset_publisher_web_portlet_AssetPublisherPortlet_INSTAN | 01:10 |
LjL | CE_fjTKmjJgSgdK%2526p_p_lifecycle%253D0%2526p_p_state%253Dnormal%2526p_p_mode%253Dview%2526_com_liferay_asset_publisher_web_portlet_AssetPublisherPortlet_INSTANCE_fjTKmjJgSgdK_cur%253D0%2526p_r_p_resetCur%253Dfalse%2526_com_liferay_asset_publisher_web_portlet_AssetPublisherPortlet_INSTANCE_fjTKmjJgSgdK_assetEntryId%253D5288119 it says that lethality is lower here "for all age groups" than in china, then it also says our total mortality is 3.5% while | 01:10 |
LjL | theirs was 2.4%. like... uh? | 01:10 |
LjL | whoops that was a slightly long url | 01:10 |
tinwhiskers | hrm | 01:10 |
LjL | https://is.gd/ZV3ihe | 01:10 |
LjL | (they're old data, too, now we're at 4.3%, but whatever, it sounds like bollocks anyway) | 01:11 |
LjL | "Let's not forget that Italy has a much higher average age than for example China (44.3 years versus 37.4) and this puts even more pressure on the structures and operators in the areas affected by the epidemic" ← sure, also, let's not forget that Japan has an even higher average age, and much lower mortality | 01:11 |
iz | yeah, i worry for japan | 01:12 |
tinwhiskers | And they're using the "current deaths/current infections" method | 01:12 |
iz | esp w/ the olympics happening soon | 01:12 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, to be fair, pretty much everyone is | 01:12 |
LjL | not that that makes it reasonable, but | 01:12 |
tinwhiskers | ok | 01:12 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, also i'm bad at maths but just *how* can we have lower fatality for all age groups, yet higher fatality in total? | 01:13 |
LjL | i guess... yeah, okay, if we have a ton of old people. but it must be really a *ton* | 01:13 |
tinwhiskers | you can't for *all* age groups and still have a lower total | 01:13 |
tinwhiskers | err. higher | 01:14 |
fructose | iz: Japan seems to have the lowest growth rate and highest doubling time | 01:14 |
dunnp | https://www.sciencenews.org/article/coronavirus-dog-pet-hong-kong-infection | 01:14 |
dunnp | hmm | 01:14 |
tinwhiskers | dog *contamination* | 01:15 |
tinwhiskers | (most likely) | 01:16 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, well, this is the highest healthcare body in the country, so if they miss the basic maths, maybe that does explain the mortality | 01:16 |
tinwhiskers | with humans shedding virus everywhere and dogs going around sniffing you'd expect them to be contaminated | 01:16 |
dunnp | read the article tinwhiskers | 01:17 |
dunnp | followup tests also showed the virus | 01:17 |
iz | dunnp: it says the followup tests were also a nose swab | 01:18 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, but actually are you sure you can't? simplified example: china is made up of one 30 year old person, and two 80 year old people. italy is made up of one 30 year old person, and four 80 year old people. let's say for below 70, the death rate is just 0% in both countries, so that's taken care of. now for the over-70, italy has 66% while china has 100%. that still means a total of 3 italians vs 2 chinese dead | 01:18 |
dunnp | yes iz | 01:18 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, also, 75% | 01:18 |
tinwhiskers | The owner was infected so subsequent infected swabs testing positive are entirely possible without the dog being infected | 01:18 |
iz | yeah, what tinwhiskers said | 01:19 |
dunnp | right, I forgot that you all know more about this than the scientists doing the work on the ground | 01:19 |
iz | lol | 01:19 |
iz | re-read the article | 01:19 |
iz | you are just globbing on to the parts you like | 01:20 |
dunnp | they put the dog under quarantine on feb 26 and it tested postive on march 2 | 01:20 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, sorry but i'd say that if the dog was quarantined on february 28 and still tested positive on march 2, it's fairly safe to say that... well... either the dog *is* positive, or "ability to survive on surfaces" is scarily higher than we've been told | 01:20 |
LjL | right, 26 | 01:20 |
iz | well, a moist dog's nose is different than most surfaces | 01:21 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: Ah. I didn't see that bit. fair enough. It might. | 01:21 |
LjL | iz, yet noses are also "engineered" so as to eat up and eventually remove as many bad things as possible | 01:22 |
LjL | so a nose is typically a highly contaminated place, but you wouldn't expect the *same* things to still be there several days later if they aren't replicating | 01:22 |
iz | well, hold them in snot, yes | 01:22 |
LjL | (or getting placed there again) | 01:22 |
ryouma | if you can't get rubbing alcohol, what does one sterilize surfaces with? faucet handles and food packages e.g. | 01:24 |
iz | well, the tests were weakly positive | 01:24 |
iz | so that sounds more like remnants vs replicating at very small numbers | 01:24 |
iz | but who knows | 01:24 |
iz | soap and water and let it dry, right? | 01:25 |
joatds[m] | Bleach works for surface | 01:26 |
LjL | iz, i would honestly go "i don't more than the scientists doing the work" too in this case... they quarantined the dog, they tested the dog again later. presumably they thought it would be safe to say that they would have found it negative if it really was negative, or else they'd have waited longer | 01:26 |
joatds[m] | For human, soap and alcohol-water solution | 01:26 |
ryouma | rubbing alcohol is like 1usd per ounce. 16usd for a bottle that is normally 1usd isn't insane but frugality makes one hesitate. | 01:27 |
LjL | iz, note that the "weakness" of the positive was there both times, so as the article mentions, it's more likely that it just doesn't replicate all that well in the dog | 01:27 |
ryouma | on amazon | 01:27 |
LjL | ryouma, search for isopropyl too | 01:27 |
iz | well, they _did_ say the test results were only weakly positive which would mean it's only replicating at a very small amount | 01:27 |
joatds[m] | I don't know if it's available in your country, but food alcohol works too | 01:27 |
ryouma | LjL: seems same on amazon | 01:27 |
LjL | foodgrade alcohol is usually a lot more expensive (usually mostly due to taxes) | 01:28 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: ah, yes, considering an average age of 45 in Italy v.s. 37 in China that could be enough to make the total higher yet all age-classes lower. | 01:28 |
joatds[m] | <LjL "foodgrade alcohol is usually a l"> Yeah, you're right | 01:28 |
iz | also it says the tests only check for parts of the virus, but not parts that would mean it's infectious | 01:28 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, yeah. still, it's hilarious how the ISS are spinning their numbers to make it sound good for Italy, when it really, really isn't | 01:28 |
LjL | ryouma, just ethanol without denaturating agents | 01:29 |
ryouma | ah | 01:29 |
LjL | iz, if it's reproducing, the animal is infected, that's pretty much by definition | 01:29 |
LjL | whether it can infect *others* is a wholly different matter | 01:29 |
joatds[m] | <LjL "tinwhiskers, yeah. still, it's h"> Where did you read it's that bad? | 01:29 |
iz | yeah, the test didn't look at that part of the virus | 01:30 |
LjL | joatds[m], https://is.gd/ZV3ihe | 01:30 |
LjL | sorry, extra character at the end | 01:30 |
LjL | https://is.gd/ZV3ihe | 01:30 |
iz | i don't think i know more than the scientists, i just read a different take on what the scientists are saying in that article | 01:30 |
LjL | iz, well it's just the whole discussion was based on the statement "The owner was infected so subsequent infected swabs testing positive are entirely possible without the dog being infected" so it was about whether the dog was infected or not. the definition of the dog being infected isn't about whether it can infect others. | 01:31 |
joatds[m] | I don't get where they are taking numbers | 01:31 |
tinwhiskers | iz: it's ok. I don't think the scientists are saying it. This is what the reporters are saying. | 01:31 |
LjL | joatds[m], they are the state healthcare institution of italy. they take the numbers directly from patients. | 01:32 |
LjL | joatds[m], you are not looking at a news outlet | 01:32 |
iz | yeah, pretty sure there is a lot of reporter thumb in that | 01:32 |
tinwhiskers | phrases like "low-level" and "weakly positive" make it look like spin to me | 01:32 |
LjL | it was already "low level" and "weakly positive" when i first heard about this several days ago | 01:33 |
LjL | now, they tested it again, and it's still the same | 01:33 |
LjL | that tells me it's positive, i really don't see how it would say otherwise | 01:33 |
iz | yeah, i think it's more media novelty than important | 01:33 |
iz | cuz a dog | 01:33 |
LjL | iz, yes, the important thing is whether it can infect others | 01:33 |
LjL | the article makes no claim about that - correctly | 01:34 |
LjL | but still, the article makes a claim, and i think *that* claims seems very reasonable at this point | 01:34 |
tinwhiskers | well, it's certainly worth more investigation, as they say. | 01:34 |
iz | the only claim it makes is that there were positive tests from a dog's nose that aren't checking if it's infectious | 01:34 |
LjL | no, the claim it's making is there are successive tests after quarantine | 01:35 |
iz | file under: media novelty, like a dancing bear article | 01:35 |
LjL | skipping that part would be worse than whatever you're accusing the article of spinning | 01:35 |
LjL | the dog isn't being kept under quarantine for the sake of the media | 01:35 |
LjL | let's not be ridiculous here | 01:35 |
iz | the tests are also from a dog's nose and aren't checking if it's infectious | 01:35 |
LjL | you just keep on repeating that | 01:35 |
iz | As the dog’s tests are only weakly positive, it could be a dead-end host, meaning that the virus is not replicating at high enough levels in the dog to be transmitted to someone else. The tests also rely on detecting small bits of the virus’s genetic code, which does not measure whether infectious virus that can infect another host is present. | 01:35 |
iz | well, maybe you didn't read it? | 01:36 |
LjL | okay | 01:36 |
tinwhiskers | that suggests it *is* replicating, which would count as infected | 01:36 |
LjL | iz, is the difference between "being infected" and "being infectious" lost on you? | 01:36 |
dunnp | yes could be - thats why they are following up still | 01:36 |
LjL | is this a language barrier issue? | 01:36 |
LjL | because yes i did read the article very thoroughly and i understand this nuance of English | 01:36 |
LjL | and the claim here is only the animal is INFECTED | 01:36 |
LjL | not that it's INFECTIOUS | 01:36 |
iz | no, my point is an infected dog that isn't infectious isn't notable news, except for the novelty of it | 01:37 |
LjL | and your point is stupid | 01:37 |
dunnp | woo sorry I pasted it here dang | 01:37 |
iz | lol | 01:37 |
LjL | because the animal is obviously being kept under quarantine for a medical reason | 01:37 |
LjL | that medical reason may well be to figure out whether it's INFECTIOUS | 01:37 |
LjL | but in the meanwhile, finding out that it's INFECTED is obviously medically relevant | 01:37 |
LjL | as said, it merits further study | 01:37 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 00:22 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The Associated Press su Twitter: "Days before a Seattle-area nursing home became the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak in the U.S., visitors entered without signing in, halls were packed and dozens gathered in a cramped room for a Mardi Gras party. https://t.co/smgv54xbix" → https://is.gd/KejHSj | 01:37 |
LjL | but saying that the whole thing is just "for media novelty" is ludicruous | 01:37 |
iz | what do you think the difference is between infectious and being able to transmit the virus to someone else? | 01:37 |
LjL | why do we have to get lost on such really really obvious basic things really? | 01:38 |
LjL | iz, they are the same thing. | 01:38 |
iz | i agree | 01:38 |
LjL | what do you think the difference between infected and infectious is? | 01:38 |
joatds[m] | <LjL "joatds, you are not looking at a"> I'm reading the news, I live 20 minutes from cologno. It's not that bad | 01:38 |
LjL | or are you just trolling me, because by now it sounds like you are | 01:38 |
LjL | we're going in circles | 01:38 |
LjL | joatds[m], Codogno not Cologno. Colognio is to the north-east of Milan. | 01:38 |
iz | infected means the virus is inside the cells and replicating, infectious means it's replicating at a high enough level that it can transmit the virus to someone else. | 01:38 |
LjL | iz, good, so you do understand the definitions | 01:39 |
LjL | then you're just annoying me for no reason | 01:39 |
LjL | good to know, thanks | 01:39 |
iz | so what do you think the part about the virus not replicating at high enough levels in the dog to be transmitted to someone else means? | 01:39 |
LjL | it means you now need to take a time out | 01:39 |
LjL | and me too | 01:40 |
tinwhiskers | lol | 01:40 |
tinwhiskers | I don't recall anyone claiming the dog was infectious, only that it was infected. It appears from the article it was indeed infected and not just contaminated. | 01:42 |
lapsang | sxsw cancelled | 01:44 |
dunnp | wow lapsang | 01:46 |
lapsang | all events, schools, etc should be cancelled | 01:47 |
lapsang | just keep the stores open, thats it | 01:48 |
dunnp | for how long? | 01:48 |
lapsang | till everyone has the virus, obviously | 01:48 |
lapsang | * has had | 01:48 |
dunnp | we were asked to set up a plan to have all classes virtually within a week | 01:48 |
dunnp | so something like this might happen | 01:49 |
dunnp | https://twitter.com/UWVirology/status/1236017803162873856?s=20 | 01:50 |
zirpu | 1000 test/day doesn't seem that much. but 5-7% is a concern. | 01:51 |
LjL | dunnp, hmm, positivity rate only means something if you know what the criteria for testing are, though, i suspect... (and/or you know they are the same as somewhere else you are comparing with) | 01:51 |
LjL | zirpu, keep in mind it definitely doesn't mean 5-7% of the general population have it | 01:52 |
zirpu | right. but seems to be from ppl that had symptoms. | 01:52 |
dunnp | thats probably 5-7% of people that they suspect could have gotten it by contact with positives | 01:52 |
LjL | yeah | 01:52 |
LjL | though details vary | 01:52 |
dunnp | at least they are now testing more en masse | 01:52 |
zirpu | if only it had some specific symptom like uncontrollable laughing, then it would be easier to catch. | 01:53 |
LjL | in both senses of catching... | 01:53 |
zirpu | oh yeah. gah. all that spit. | 01:53 |
ubLIX | "Interim guidance for environmental cleaning in non-healthcare facilities exposed to SARS-CoV-2" - 18 February 2020 - https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/coronavirus-SARS-CoV-2-guidance-environmental-cleaning-non-healthcare-facilities.pdf (pdf) - references on last page | 01:53 |
LjL | ubLIX, wait, the ECDC actually do things?! | 01:54 |
ubLIX | ^ short note, only 8 chemicals and concentrations mentioned | 01:54 |
LjL | "Due to the potential survival of the virus in the environment for several days, the premises and areas potentially contaminated with SARS-CoV-2should be cleaned before their re-use," | 01:54 |
ubLIX | LjL: well they apparently do interim things | 01:55 |
LjL | "several days" doesn't sound like the "several hours" that they tell us for China-related package receiving purposes, does it, Spec? | 01:55 |
LjL | well, more like "only some hours" is what they used to state | 01:55 |
LjL | ("they" not being the ECDC, but others who really should know better, such as the WHO) | 01:55 |
dunnp | Harvard has banned all travel for employees wow | 01:56 |
LjL | ubLIX, well all in all 70% alcohol seems to remain a pretty solid choice | 01:56 |
LjL | gee i really can't make code that works can i | 01:58 |
LjL | %cases italy | 01:58 |
Brainstorm | ValueError: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '' (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 64, in covid) | 01:58 |
LjL | or at least that works... more than once | 01:58 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, but you were feeding me 0's before, not empty strings! you're terrible. now you lose you voice | 01:59 |
ubLIX | i was searching for evidence of viricidal usefulness of benzalkonium chloride (you can get wet wipes with this compound). it's.. uhm.. not useless. but it's not 70% alcohol, either | 01:59 |
ubLIX | anyhoo, nn | 01:59 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: What are you getting empty strings for? | 02:00 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, according to the error and the line involved, at some row in the Confirmed column | 02:00 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, here possible: US;Queens County, NY;;;;1583539502 | 02:01 |
LjL | or... certainly, it's the only one | 02:01 |
LjL | the timestamp also looks odd | 02:01 |
LjL | others have three more digits | 02:01 |
LjL | zeroes, but still digits | 02:02 |
tinwhiskers | I see | 02:02 |
LjL | oh wait, same also for US;New York City, NY;;;;1583539502 | 02:02 |
LjL | and for US;Boston, MA;;;;1583539502 i'm clearly blind | 02:02 |
tinwhiskers | yes, the timestamps are also in unix time instead of javascript time | 02:02 |
tinwhiskers | I'll look into it | 02:03 |
LjL | well anyway i changed my code to treat them as zeroes, but i guess there's still something off in yours | 02:03 |
tinwhiskers | yeah. thanks | 02:03 |
dunnp | this on github? | 02:04 |
LjL | the voice was for being the VOICE of reason, btw, in case that wasn't clear! | 02:04 |
LjL | dunnp, nope, i can't do git | 02:04 |
LjL | %souce covid | 02:04 |
LjL | %source covid | 02:04 |
Brainstorm | LjL, source code for module 'covid' can be found at https://paste.ee/p/tyQM5 | 02:04 |
LjL | here you go | 02:04 |
tinwhiskers | That'll be related to my "fix" from yesterday when the john hopkins gis site went down | 02:05 |
zirpu | LjL: use row.get('Confirmed', 0) to default to zero if no entry. | 02:05 |
LjL | zirpu, that's probably cleaner than what i did, yeah | 02:06 |
LjL | although mine should work too | 02:06 |
ryouma | are there differences in quality among regular surgical masks (not talking n95 here, just the kind tos top you from infecting others)? | 02:06 |
zirpu | yeah, there should be a way to test that the string is a number. | 02:07 |
LjL | zirpu, if you google that sort of thing people will parrot you the Python mantra that it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission, and give you a try: except: about it. which seems... silly, in part because there is no inline try: except: | 02:08 |
zirpu | yeah, that's the initial obvious way to catch the exceptions, but i seem to recall there was some way to test the string that it's a number. i can't find it yet. | 02:09 |
zirpu | otherwise, write a util function to do the try-except. | 02:10 |
zirpu | seems that it was just an empty string through. csv might be able to be told to make it default to 0. | 02:10 |
LjL | i won't overthink this, an "or" or your .get will do fine for now | 02:11 |
zirpu | +1 | 02:11 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Australia: +1 cases (now 64) 🔸 Canada: +2 cases (now 54) 🔸 Mainland China: +1 cases (now 80651) 🔸 Beijing, Mainland China: +4 cases (now 426), +4 recoveries (now 303) 🔸 Chongqing, Mainland China: +7 recoveries (now 520) 🔸 Hunan, Mainland China: +4 recoveries (now 959) 🔸 Jiangsu, Mainland China: +7 recoveries (now 601) 🔸 Sichuan, Mainland China: +6 recoveries (now 448) 🔸 Senegal: +1 recoveries (now 1) 🔸 W | 02:13 |
LjL | if you want to see something really ugly, look at the main if statement in the code | 02:13 |
LjL | also it's still not posting from Matrix, bleh :( | 02:13 |
dunnp | %cases scotland | 02:15 |
Brainstorm | dunnp: 3 lest ah googled (45 seconds ago) | 02:15 |
dunnp | heh | 02:15 |
zirpu | awesome. :-) | 02:15 |
dunnp | what is Matrix? | 02:16 |
lapsang | take the red pill | 02:16 |
LjL | dunnp, a sort of more modern IRC alternative, that this channel is bridged with (meaning this channel is also a Matrix room), https://matrix.org | 02:17 |
tinwhiskers | it's actually John Hopkins putting in a blank. They've got a blank as the latest value for those locations even after having counts above 0. I assume those to be cumulative so was just taking the most recent number, but they've mucked that up. | 02:17 |
zirpu | LjL: row[key].isdigit() or 0 | 02:18 |
zirpu | since you know it's a string. use the string methods to test. | 02:18 |
zirpu | there's also .isnumer() for floats too. | 02:19 |
zirpu | erg. .isnumeric() | 02:19 |
LjL | zirpu, isdigit is not actually great for that... it would probably work in this case, but, obvious caveats, it will say False if there's a decimal period/comma or a sign | 02:19 |
LjL | not in python 2.7 ;( | 02:19 |
dunnp | you can use skipinitialspace=True for the csvreader | 02:19 |
zirpu | erp. n/m. isnumeric doesn't work. my bad. | 02:20 |
dunnp | to get rid of a space after the delimeter | 02:20 |
zirpu | use python3! :-) | 02:20 |
dunnp | https://docs.python.org/2/library/csv.html#csv-fmt-params | 02:20 |
LjL | zirpu, that makes it seem simple... this bot has become an enormous beast with tentacles over the years. i've tried to convert it to python 3 a few times but then i couldn't keep up with it | 02:20 |
LjL | dunnp, spaces aren't the problem | 02:20 |
dunnp | thought you got a ; ; | 02:21 |
LjL | no, a ;; | 02:21 |
dunnp | oh misread | 02:21 |
LjL | this is what the bot mainly does since around 2016, aside from being useless at IRC stuff https://twitter.com/BrainstormBot | 02:22 |
LjL | note the channel (actually: Matrix room) spin | 02:23 |
zirpu | sadly csv doesn't allow the use of collections.defaultdict | 02:23 |
zirpu | anyway, i'd just create a util function to do the try: except: then you're good. | 02:24 |
dunnp | is matrix a web app? | 02:25 |
zirpu | yes and no. it's basically a distributed irc replacement sort of thing. i think. i'm vague about it. | 02:26 |
dunnp | ah I see | 02:26 |
dunnp | and it mirrors irc users? | 02:26 |
zirpu | there are gateways between matrix and irc. | 02:27 |
dunnp | hmm | 02:28 |
zirpu | gateways/proxies, i'm not sure what they're called, but basically porting messages from 1 to the othere and vice versa. | 02:28 |
LjL | dunnp, a web app is its best-known client, but no, it's a protocol, which anyone can write clients for, and there are already a number of clients (including, say, a plugin for weechat) | 02:29 |
dunnp | seems useful if you have to be on lots of platforms | 02:29 |
LjL | Matrix's main purpose isn't to be a gateway for other platforms | 02:29 |
LjL | it just has "addon" functionality and some of the addons are bridges to other platforms | 02:29 |
LjL | it was a pretty clever way to gain users, really | 02:30 |
zirpu | bridges. that's the term i was looking for. | 02:30 |
zirpu[m] | indeed. | 02:30 |
dunnp | Matrix’s initial goal is to fix the problem of fragmented IP communications: letting users message and call each other without having to care what app the other user is on - making it as easy as sending an email. | 02:30 |
LjL | many once-IRC-channels have basically become mostly Matrix rooms now, without their users even noticing it... just by virtue of more and more people using Matrix "as" an IRC bouncer sort of thing | 02:30 |
zirpu | i like the idea of having a private matrix server instead of a "service" like slack. | 02:31 |
zirpu | OSS FTW. | 02:31 |
LjL | but this channel isn't simply bridged to Matrix the way any freendoe channel is if you invoke it as #freenode_#channel:matrix.org | 02:31 |
zirpu[m] | so how is it being bridged? | 02:32 |
LjL | this one is actually its own room on Matrix, with goodness like a colorful coronavirus icon, and a topic that's always out of date because the bridge doesn't actually bridge the channel topic, and i forget | 02:32 |
zirpu | wow. slow to come across. | 02:32 |
contingocat | what is the icon | 02:32 |
zirpu | i do like the icon. | 02:32 |
LjL | it's on Matrix as #covid-19:matrix.org (and a few other aliases) | 02:32 |
contingocat | why was i not subcontracted to design the icon | 02:32 |
LjL | contingocat, the Wikipedia image on the "coronavirus" article. i'm sorry it's not precisely a sars-cov-2 image! | 02:33 |
dunnp | interesting | 02:33 |
LjL | contingocat, because the wikipedia one seemed to work pretty well, it even already had background transparency :P | 02:33 |
dunnp | I use slack msotly for work | 02:33 |
contingocat | i will render something for your consideration | 02:33 |
LjL | contingocat, but feel free. i don't pay very much for the job though | 02:33 |
zirpu | free carrots. | 02:33 |
contingocat | it's ok, you helped me get the quadro | 02:34 |
joatds[m] | <LjL "joatds, Codogno not Cologno. Col"> I meant Codogno | 02:34 |
LjL | joatds[m], yeah, to be fair, i also meant Cologno and not Colognio, both times | 02:35 |
LjL | whoopsies | 02:35 |
LjL | you'd figure after being used to spelling English almost correctly, i could spell Italian | 02:36 |
joatds[m] | <LjL "joatds, yeah, to be fair, i also"> Are you serious? You want me to share my position:)? | 02:37 |
LjL | joatds[m], uh... how do you figure that? | 02:37 |
zirpu | zirpu[m]: poke test. | 02:38 |
zirpu[m] | stop that you bald monkey. | 02:38 |
zirpu | :-) | 02:38 |
LjL | i read that as puke test at first | 02:39 |
LjL | and i wanted to say, no you don't need to do that, this usually doesn't present with gastrointestinal symptoms | 02:39 |
LjL | A Chinese-speaker on the subreddit sums up what they’ve gleaned from Chinese social media. For example: | 02:42 |
LjL | People are talking less about Wuhan and more about the rest of the world in recent days. The worst of the overload in Wuhan is over, and the quarantine in the rest of the country is keeping spread more or less manageable. People are talking more about the usual scandals and fandom stuff. Meanwhile, people are horrified at, say, Japan’s mismanagement of its earlier cases. I’ve seen the attitude “we sacrificed Wuhan to slow the spread and you | 02:42 |
LjL | guys are just wasting your window of opportunity?” And comments that maybe the CCP isn’t that incompetent in comparison after all. | 02:42 |
zirpu | CCP? | 02:43 |
zirpu | oh. n/m. communist pigs. | 02:43 |
zirpu | party! i meant to type party! gah. keyboards. | 02:43 |
zirpu | why do they even bother calling themselves communist still? | 02:44 |
lapsang | is china not communist | 02:44 |
zirpu | socialist maybe, but definately grasped capitalism and sold their slave labor far and wide. | 02:45 |
lapsang | who pays the workers? | 02:45 |
zirpu | whoever they work for, whether a company or a state run company. | 02:46 |
lapsang | all companies aren't state-run? | 02:47 |
zirpu | not any more. | 02:47 |
lapsang | Are salaries negotiated between worker and private property owner? | 02:47 |
zirpu | that headline seems to imply that the doctor was responsible for the cruise ship cases. weird. | 02:47 |
dunnp | it is a Unitary Marxist-Leninist one-party socialist republic! | 02:47 |
dunnp | according to wikipedia | 02:48 |
dunnp | but the companies exist at the pleasure of the gov't | 02:48 |
lapsang | the only part of that with a clear definition is "one-party" | 02:48 |
LjL | "My mother and I had to line up from six in the morning at a convenience store," Jung Dohwan, a banker, told ABC News. "The store was selling only one box of masks per person, so I changed my jacket and used two different credit cards, pretending to be a different person, and bought three boxes." | 02:49 |
LjL | oh lawd, people. | 02:49 |
lapsang | Socialism as a word should be retired IMO | 02:49 |
lapsang | it doesn't mean anything | 02:49 |
zirpu | i wish non-sick people would stop wearing masks. | 02:49 |
LjL | why do you wish that? | 02:49 |
zirpu | i live in seattle next door to AWS HQ and it's been a ghost town here for the past few days since they told everyone who can work from home to do it. | 02:50 |
zirpu | lots of open parking though. :-) | 02:50 |
zirpu | and quieter. sadly, the food trucks didn't show up today. :( | 02:50 |
ryouma | i read china gov sent out a whole lot of stooges to social media though so i'd take that witha grain of salt maybe | 02:51 |
ryouma | LjL: | 02:52 |
zirpu | LjL: about the masks, well people aren't going to prevent infection with the masks. it's just a talisman. not that it's impossible to breathe in a virus, but most of them are not N95 or better. | 02:53 |
LjL | ryouma, but to be fair, the cruise ship thing was managed... horrendously, and, our government (Italy) *did* keep saying, before the outbreak hit us bad, "We must be quite thankful to China because with their draconian measures they bought us time to prepare"... and then, they didn't prepare at all (or maybe they just prepared their speeches) | 02:53 |
zirpu | masks are to keep sick people from spreading the virus. | 02:53 |
LjL | so whether the Reddit company is from an actual Chinese person or not, they're a grain of truth in it | 02:53 |
dunnp | masks also help you to stop touching your mouth | 02:53 |
lapsang | masks hold moist particles near the face. This makes it easier for healthy people to catch covid-19 | 02:53 |
dunnp | i dont think so lapsang | 02:54 |
lapsang | sick people however should wear the masks, to brunt the spread of particles | 02:54 |
zirpu | dunnp: good point. and glasses for the eyes. clothes pin for the nose? :-) | 02:54 |
lapsang | dunnp this is conventional wisdom | 02:54 |
dunnp | is it? | 02:54 |
LjL | zirpu, i disagree with that assessment on masks. 1) N95, or in Europe, FPP2/FPP3 masks are likely reasonably effective, and 2) you don't know whether you're "non-sick" since it's been established by now that people can be infectious while asymptomatic, so even surgical masks will be useful if everyone wears them | 02:54 |
ryouma | govs seem to be extremely incompetent. but i don't think china has much to do with that. | 02:54 |
LjL | i feel the one true reason behind the "no masks!" stress is that there is a huge shortage and healthcare people need to have them first | 02:55 |
LjL | which is perfectly reasonable... but lies aren't a good way to achieve that, IMO | 02:55 |
zirpu | ah. yeah. i see the point. the 2-14 day incubation period and lack of symptoms. | 02:55 |
LjL | oh, and yeah, the masks helping you to stop touching your mouth/nose is always a good point, which i always forget about, but yeah | 02:55 |
zirpu | i agree, healthcare workers need to keep supplied. | 02:55 |
lapsang | dunnp https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/03/02/n95-face-mask-coronavirus/ | 02:55 |
zirpu | we're really screwed w/o the healthcare workers. | 02:56 |
lapsang | https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/02/26/how-to-prepare-for-coronavirus/ | 02:56 |
ryouma | true. problem is, i am bedridden. i rely on my carer in order to survive. if she gets sick, i'd like her to wear any non-valve mask, preferably surgical mask, to not cough on my food, bowls, spoons, or me. where do i go online to get, say, 100 non-ripoff such masks for her? | 02:56 |
ryouma | she is, in effect, a healthcare worker | 02:56 |
dunnp | lapsang: it says absolutely nothing about holind particles near your face | 02:57 |
dunnp | you have made up this conventional wisdom | 02:57 |
LjL | lapsang, the Washington Post article immediately shows some of the usual contradictions. they actually make it worse because of moisture... okay... but then they say you DO need to wear one if you're taking care of a sick person? so wait, do they make the risk worse or not | 02:57 |
LjL | i really wouldn't resort to mainstream media outlet for whether masks are effective or not. they all just parrot each other. | 02:57 |
LjL | ryouma, well, if she can buy a mask for less than an ounce of gold, more power to her | 02:58 |
zirpu | echo chamber that spreads mis-information just as fast as facts. | 02:58 |
lapsang | thats paranoiac | 02:59 |
dunnp | ryouma: yea masks are backordered. I'm surprised people can still buy them | 02:59 |
dunnp | I work for a hospital and I can't get any | 02:59 |
LjL | lapsang, what's "paranoiac" | 03:00 |
LjL | that mainstream media these days are mostly lazy asses that copy each other and/or wikipedia? | 03:00 |
LjL | paranoia really seems to have a low bar with some people | 03:00 |
lapsang | Yes | 03:01 |
LjL | dunnp, someone i know who works in a hospital reported the hospital was broken in to steal masks and hand sanitizer | 03:01 |
lapsang | refuting anything by calling it "mainstream media" is quite paranoiac | 03:01 |
dunnp | we have security guards watching the masks for incoming patients | 03:01 |
LjL | i don't think you know what "paranoiac" means | 03:01 |
lapsang | You get your news from Bubba at the truck stop, I guess | 03:01 |
LjL | and it's also not a nice thing to accuse others of being | 03:01 |
ryouma | on amazon, there are lots and lots of surgical masks, and they are not price gouged, but they cannot be sorted by rating, and they are all from sellers that look weird | 03:01 |
dunnp | I can normally get 50 for $3 | 03:02 |
dunnp | amazon is wayyyy above that | 03:02 |
ryouma | ok well they are more like 50 | 03:02 |
ryouma | so dunno which to choose | 03:02 |
LjL | surgical masks are, in normal time, just pennies | 03:02 |
LjL | ryouma, can't help you there, and probably neither can the reviews. i would just get the cheapest that don't have "ugh these are terrible to wear" reviews, since none of them work miracles anyway | 03:03 |
LjL | ryouma, keep in mind they *do* need to be replaced often (daily, at least), or they actually do become a liability for the person wearing them | 03:04 |
lapsang | LjL is of the opinion that the US Surgeon General has no expertise and is merely parroting something he heard in the mainstream media. | 03:04 |
lapsang | That's fine, but don't expect much traction with others. | 03:05 |
LjL | no, i am not of that opinion and if you lie about my opinions in the future i will not let you continue to do so | 03:05 |
lapsang | World Health Organization? Why they're nothing more than the lame stream media! | 03:05 |
LjL | i am of the opinion, as i actually mentioned earlier, that authorities (like presumably the US Surgeon General) mainly want the public to stop hoarding masks because they are actually needed by healthcare personnel | 03:05 |
LjL | you are trolling | 03:06 |
LjL | this channel is not for trolling | 03:06 |
LjL | take a time out | 03:06 |
LjL | also stop PMing me | 03:06 |
LjL | why do people think that when i quiet them, i want to continue the discussion in PM? | 03:06 |
LjL | i really don't | 03:06 |
dunnp | heh | 03:06 |
dunnp | me too | 03:07 |
LjL | i explained *just above* why organizations like the WHO probably tell healthy people to avoid masks. if you can't read that, or won't, i have no interest in talking to you | 03:07 |
dunnp | WHO guidelines say to not wear a mask only because they need them for healthcare - not because it makes it more likelt that you would get ill | 03:07 |
LjL | and hey i believe it is actually a very good reason! | 03:07 |
dunnp | yes | 03:07 |
LjL | i just think it's not good they mislead people by saying that masks *aren't useful* for them. they should just say that healthcare workers need them | 03:07 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +180 cases (now 102245), +1 deaths (now 3495) 🔶 South Korea: +174 cases (now 6767), +1 deaths (now 44) 🔸 New South Wales, Australia: +2 cases (now 28) 🔸 Victoria, Australia: +1 cases (now 11) 🔸 Czech Republic: +1 cases (now 19) 🔸 US: +5 cases (now 326) 🔸 Cook County, IL, US: +1 cases (now 6) 🔸 Fort Bend County, TX, US: +2 cases (now 3) | 03:08 |
LjL | because really, people will eventually read somewhere that it's kind of not really true, and then they will doubt everything you say | 03:08 |
LjL | it may be a good short-term strategy but it's terrible long-term | 03:08 |
LjL | a great way to make people stop trusting institutions | 03:08 |
LjL | lapsang, i told you to stop PMing me, and instead, you PMd with with *yet another* institution (this time the CDC) when i have already, twice now, pointed at the fact i already explained why i think these institutions give these indications | 03:09 |
LjL | so since you aren't willing or able to understand simple English, i'm afraid this isn't just a timeout anymore | 03:09 |
LjL | does it really take this much pain in the ass feeling to manage a channel of less than 70 people, gee | 03:10 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 02:01 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Ryan Struyk su Twitter: "Latest @CNN reporting: 4:25 p.m: Minnesota reports first coronavirus case 5:20 p.m: First coronavirus case in Oklahoma 6:35 p.m: Connecticut reveals first coronavirus case 7:18 p.m: First coronavirus case in Kentucky reported 8:05 p.m: Nebraska reports first coronavirus case" → https://is.gd/Xu6RA8 | 03:17 |
LjL | hmm so far this reddit live thread is basically duplicating the case info the bot already reports | 03:18 |
LjL | i was hoping for more actual news | 03:18 |
dunnp | still pming me too | 03:18 |
LjL | oh good grief | 03:18 |
LjL | dunnp, i've set myself +g, fwiw, that should give people a hint their PMs are not welcomed | 03:18 |
dunnp | %cases North Carolina | 03:18 |
Brainstorm | dunnp: In World, there are 2 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 03:03:30 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 03:18 |
dunnp | what is +g? | 03:18 |
LjL | dunnp, it stops people from sending you messages, but it does give you a notice that someone has sent you a message, so that you have a chane of messaging them back if it's someone you know | 03:19 |
LjL | it's basically the freenode version of caller ID | 03:19 |
contingocat | in World | 03:19 |
LjL | although if your client puts notices into a status window, you may miss them | 03:19 |
LjL | contingocat, oh right... i knew were was still that issue, i forgot to look at it | 03:19 |
LjL | but it's actually reporting about North Carolina (if only...) | 03:20 |
zirpu | i just ignore him. | 03:20 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Toronto, ON, Canada: +3 cases (now 27) | 03:21 |
LjL | zirpu, you're getting messages too? | 03:22 |
LjL | the hell | 03:22 |
LjL | is he harassing the whole channel now because i banned him? | 03:23 |
LjL | %cases North Carolina | 03:24 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In NC, US, there are 2 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 03:13:09 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 03:24 |
LjL | i'm going to change the date format because my OCD can't stand seeing that double space after the month name | 03:24 |
zirpu | not for a while. i just closed the PM and ignored him. | 03:28 |
LjL | i might end up making a "what about masks" section for the pastebin after the "it's just a flu!" section | 03:32 |
LjL | i meant it as a collection of links but then there keep being these myths creeping up that are just annoying to rebut every time | 03:33 |
LjL | (i mean, even when people aren't being actively malicious about them) | 03:33 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Montreal, QC, Canada: +1 cases (now 3) 🔸 Palestine: +6 cases (now 22) 🔸 US: +1 cases (now 327) 🔸 World: +7 cases (now 102252) | 03:36 |
zirpu | good idea. | 03:38 |
fructose | New analysis, including L vs. S: https://twitter.com/trvrb | 03:47 |
adventurer | %data australia | 03:50 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +16 cases (now 102268) 🔶 United Arab Emirates: +16 cases (now 45) | 03:50 |
Brainstorm | adventurer: In None, Australia, there are 64 cases, 2 deaths (3.1% of cases), 22 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 02:55:00 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Australia for time series data. | 03:50 |
Brainstorm | adventurer: Mortality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 8.0% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 03:50 |
contingocat | how are things going | 03:51 |
contingocat | i haven't read the news in five hours XD | 03:52 |
tinwhiskers | The scoreboard shows lots of countries doing extremely well | 03:52 |
tinwhiskers | SARS-COV-2 is the winner on the day | 03:52 |
tinwhiskers | oh... those aren't scores? oh. I see. | 03:53 |
fructose | tinwhiskers: Well? How so? | 03:53 |
fructose | Oh | 03:53 |
LjL | contingocat, nothing new... i'm bored and adding a bunch of feeds to the bot's RSS list. i've decided to add some general health feeds (also Lancet and BMJ open issue), but to do that i have to limit the bot to specific keywords, so it might end up missing some of the items on the covid-specific feeds. but i think it's an okay tradeoff... pretty much every item is going to have "covid" or "coronavirus" or something inside it | 03:55 |
contingocat | ok makes sense | 03:55 |
contingocat | I opened a covid-19 room on multiplayerpiano and gave a recital of Dies irae motif pieces which went down well | 03:56 |
LjL | lol | 03:57 |
contingocat | but now I think bed. remember to get some rest too my diligent friend | 03:57 |
zirpu[m] | anyone see the Counterpart series? one side had a virus that killed 7% of the population in that story. good show. | 03:58 |
zirpu[m] | the only good thing about covid-19 is prepping us for a worse case, except here in the USA. bunch of dummies. | 03:59 |
LjL | i somehow have difficulty imagining worse than this except for improbable "movie doomsday" scenarios, but, well, my imagination has clearly been proven wrong before | 03:59 |
LjL | i was imagining a lot of political turmoil in the near future (wars?) partly due to climate change, but honestly, a pandemic, nope, wasn't on my radar | 04:00 |
ryouma | same here | 04:00 |
zirpu[m] | a pandemic would solve our involvement in the climate change sort of. | 04:00 |
LjL | although sometimes i'd read those news of frozen viruses unthawing in Siberia or the like and i'd ponder it for a bit, but not much | 04:00 |
ryouma | climate change, ideologies, dogmas, political extremism | 04:01 |
LjL | zirpu[m], well, it's already made China pollute less, apparently | 04:01 |
zirpu[m] | yeah, i read that somewhere. interesting. | 04:01 |
zirpu[m] | the economic hit is what will get the attention of the politicians. which is just another sign of their inadequacy. | 04:03 |
LjL | i think it's *already* getting it to the point they are sometimes tentatively prioritizing the economy over, you know, people staying alive | 04:03 |
LjL | see also: "packages from China are safe" | 04:04 |
LjL | yes i have a bit of a beef with that one | 04:04 |
zirpu[m] | i'm more worried about my UPS driver coughing on my package than it coming from china. | 04:04 |
tinwhiskers | Packages from China usually take about 3-4 months to arrive here but have taken as long as 15 months, so I'm not too concerned about live viruses | 04:05 |
zirpu[m] | whoever manufactures sugical masks is, i hope, working round-the-clock shifts. | 04:05 |
tinwhiskers | I heard the US had requested an increase in production of 40% from some mask manufacturers... 40%... wtf? | 04:06 |
LjL | zirpu[m], the fact that packages from China are likely safe is something i can get on board with | 04:06 |
zirpu[m] | math is hard for some people, just saying. :-) | 04:06 |
LjL | what i didn't like was 1) the insistence about it 2) the putting it as part of the same level of basic advice as "wash your hands frequently" 3) the fact that it was often accompanied by a "because the virus only survives some hours on surfaces" which is just pulled of someone's ass, because we don't know that | 04:06 |
ryouma | LjL: you're saying package from china are likely safe, and that you have a beef. i'm missing something. | 04:08 |
LjL | ryouma, i think i just explained what my beef is with that advice... | 04:08 |
ryouma | ah ok ups | 04:08 |
tinwhiskers | he has a beef with the people spreading FUD about packages from China | 04:08 |
ryouma | ohhhhhhhhhhh | 04:08 |
LjL | it's really that way with most of the advice from... everyone, starting with WHO | 04:08 |
ryouma | except wow online the cmoments are all saying they are getting the wrong product and stuff | 04:09 |
LjL | and i don't think i am "paranoiac" about any of that, really. it's stuff that if you read the studies, it's just pulled out of thin air. it may be hard to call it "lies" because we don't know it ISN'T true... but we also don't know it IS true | 04:09 |
ryouma | yeah i'm not afraid of china products, just let them sit for a bit (to be determined) | 04:09 |
zirpu[m] | when the zombie apocalpyse happens, i'm biting the first zombie i see. :-) | 04:09 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Spain: +1 cases (now 402) 🔸 US: +1 cases (now 328) 🔸 Bergen County, NJ, US: +1 cases (now 4) 🔸 World: +2 cases (now 102270) | 04:10 |
LjL | Spain is spiking fairly good now too, isn't it | 04:11 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:04 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: South Korea cases cross 6,700, Facebook temporarily bans face mask ads → https://is.gd/BfB4de | 04:11 |
LjL | it's pretty much all of western europe now | 04:11 |
LjL | lol facebook | 04:11 |
LjL | the graphs for France and Germany look nearly identical (only cases, not quite deaths), and Spain very close too https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France;Germany;Spain | 04:14 |
LjL | UK's a little better, likely due to obvious geographical factors | 04:14 |
tinwhiskers | It still hasn't taken off in Africa. An epidemiologist mentioned to me that he thought that was due to SARS-COV-2 not doing well in hot places, but I tend to think it's mostly just luck. It'll be interesting to see though. | 04:15 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, we do know it hasn't, though? i've repeatedly heard that testing ability is scant, and that isn't too hard to believe? | 04:15 |
tinwhiskers | yes, good point | 04:16 |
LjL | also, Turkey having no cases is just a joke, surely | 04:16 |
tinwhiskers | it's also doing ok in Australia and that's basically an oven | 04:16 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, yes, that's another one of those things that have pretty much crystallized as myths i think. "it will get better in warmer weather". the people, maybe reasonable scientists and doctors, who originally said that were mainly HOPING it would, and stating they had no hard evidence whatsoever. but people strip out the subtleties and it somehow became a certainty... depite now data showing that, sadly, no | 04:17 |
zirpu[m] | wait and see. hope for the best, prepare for the worst. | 04:18 |
LjL | i also don't believe that the authoritarian countries are just lying about numbers, fwiw. i don't know about China in particular since China may have motives i can't even dream of, but take Singapore... cases are still rising, they report them, but they're very much under control | 04:18 |
fructose | tinwhiskers: In the US, it was reported today that only 1895 people have been tested in all 50 states. | 04:18 |
LjL | fructose, uhm, i had read somewhere, days ago already, that it had quickly gone from 500 to 3500 | 04:19 |
tinwhiskers | I agree. I'm not entirely confident China isn't being truthful either. | 04:19 |
LjL | well, "quickly"... CDC-quickly | 04:19 |
fructose | LjL: I saw it on the public news and just looked up the source... https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-many-americans-have-been-tested-coronavirus/607597/ | 04:21 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 US: +1 cases (now 329) 🔸 World: +1 cases (now 102271) | 04:21 |
tinwhiskers | a typical lab should be able to test 1000 people a day. Many can do 6000-10000. Many countries have free/drive-through testing available. | 04:22 |
tinwhiskers | In the US if you get a negative test your insurance likely won't pay for it so who's going to go an get a test when it might cost them $2k | 04:22 |
tinwhiskers | those without insurance - don't even think about it | 04:22 |
LjL | fructose, sounds like they did some (gasp) actual investigative journalism. well, to the extent of calling phone numbers at least. | 04:23 |
LjL | fructose, uhm i have no idea where i read that 3500 number but when i googled it now, it says they've given the go-ahead for testing all 3500 passengers aboard the Grand Princess, so i guess technically they'll have tested many more people soon | 04:25 |
fructose | tinwhiskers: There may be a bottleneck with reagents right now | 04:25 |
fructose | I don't think the bottleneck is in the labs | 04:26 |
tinwhiskers | There was a problem with the primers that the CDC sent out and they had to wait for new ones | 04:26 |
tinwhiskers | I doubt the reagents are limiting anything | 04:26 |
LjL | there will soon be a bottleneck with a bunch of things, due to China closing stuff down :( | 04:26 |
tinwhiskers | The failed primers were why labs were asking if they could source their own, since plenty of other places can provide the correct ones. | 04:27 |
fructose | tinwhiskers: Yeah, sorry, I was lumping in primers with reagents. | 04:27 |
tinwhiskers | oh, ok | 04:28 |
fructose | In my defense, I've tried to get a biochemist to tell me how to distinguish reagents from other components of a protocol and was told it's not clear and to just call them reagents. | 04:31 |
tinwhiskers | The problem more lies with the regulations around who is allowed to be tested. The labs are probably mostly ready to go now having got new primers, but they're not allowed to test people. | 04:31 |
fructose | That was a problem, but in the US supposedly all it takes is a doctor's order. | 04:31 |
tinwhiskers | oh. so there will be thousands of tests going on today then... | 04:32 |
ryouma | what is a primer in this context? | 04:34 |
LjL | i heard something to the extent that there are guidelines but the guidelines allow testing anyway even if the criteria aren't met if the doctors think they have a compelling reason to believe a patient has it | 04:34 |
tinwhiskers | a primer is a section of DNA about 20 bases long that is used to amplify the viral DNA in a test sample if it exists. | 04:35 |
fructose | ryouma: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymerase_chain_reaction | 04:35 |
tinwhiskers | you need two primers for the test, a start (forward) and a stop (reverse) primer. | 04:35 |
fructose | That article refers to primers are reagents, so maybe the biochemist didn't lie. | 04:35 |
ryouma | i knew it had to do with pcr, but i thought i'd get a quick gloss from somebody here, like "short fragment of single-stranded dna used to compare to somethign" | 04:35 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Mainland China: +8 recoveries (now 55412) 🔸 US: +1 cases (now 330) 🔸 Harris County, TX, US: +1 cases (now 4) 🔸 World: +8 cases (now 102279), +8 recoveries (now 57447) | 04:37 |
tinwhiskers | yeah, so PCR multiplies DNA in a sample that matches the DNA between your start and stop primers. So just a tiny amount of viral DNA can be detected. | 04:37 |
ryouma | huh, you have like actacg as your start and acgacg as your stop, and anything that goes actacg...acgacg gets reproduced? | 04:41 |
tinwhiskers | yeah | 04:41 |
ryouma | so you reproduce basically potentially a lot of variants too | 04:41 |
ryouma | can* | 04:41 |
ryouma | but if your primers are too specific then you miss some? | 04:41 |
tinwhiskers | that's where the correct primer design comes in. It must select only the right bits | 04:41 |
tinwhiskers | when you gel your sample you can tell if the primers worked or not by the size of the resulting DNA fragments that were multiplied | 04:42 |
LjL | but is there are parts of the viral genome that are somehow "nearly guaranteed" not to mutate? | 04:42 |
LjL | is there are there is? | 04:43 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: there are places that mutate less frequently, but they look across a lot of different sequences to find good candidates. They also have to look at all other virus sequences to ensure they won't select one of those incorrectly as well. | 04:44 |
tinwhiskers | they use massive databases and simulate the PCR across that database using the candidate primers | 04:44 |
ryouma | what about finding new ones? what leads to that? | 04:44 |
tinwhiskers | currently we have about 125 SARS-COV-2 sequences | 04:44 |
tinwhiskers | Shown here: https://nextstrain.org/ncov?c=gt-ORF8_84&r=country | 04:45 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 03:30 UTC: /u/slakmehl: What you need to know about the first case of coronavirus in Hawaii → https://is.gd/wxMArL | 04:45 |
ryouma | so, i rely on medicines. medicines come from chemicals. chemicals come from china. will tihs be a problem? | 04:46 |
tinwhiskers | I don't know who decides to sequence samples or not | 04:46 |
ryouma | if you sequence, what exactly are you sequencing? if you have no database. i mean, you have tons of dna and rna critters in any given sample right? | 04:46 |
tinwhiskers | yes, only DNA that matches the two primers will be multiplied (exponentially) so after 20 cycles you have billions or trillions of your target v.s. just a handful of the other things | 04:48 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, i have a NIH link in the pastebin that i believe has the actual sequences for a few of them... (nextstrain can't due to licensing i believe) | 04:48 |
tinwhiskers | it's kinda surprising that 20 base primers are sufficient to uiniquely select pretty much anything | 04:48 |
LjL | <ryouma> so, i rely on medicines. medicines come from chemicals. chemicals come from china. will tihs be a problem? ← to put it bluntly, yes, especially given many generics come from India, and India, facing a shortage from China, is blocking exports | 04:48 |
ryouma | but then completely new viruses still need to be discovered right? | 04:48 |
LjL | ryouma, so if you rely on critical medicines, please stock | 04:49 |
tinwhiskers | yes, the primers are specific to a particular virus | 04:49 |
tinwhiskers | although you could probably design primers that would select for any current coronavirus you couldn't be sure that would include the next corona virus | 04:49 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Ecuador: +1 cases (now 14) 🔸 Inner Mongolia, Mainland China: +2 recoveries (now 67) 🔸 US: +1 deaths (now 16) 🔸 World: +1 cases (now 102280), +1 deaths (now 3496) | 04:50 |
tinwhiskers | bear in mind "any current corona virus" includes lots of common cold viruses so that really wouldn't be very useful. | 04:50 |
Poon | %data vietnam | 04:50 |
Brainstorm | Poon: In None, Vietnam, there are 17 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 16 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 04:45:00 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Vietnam for time series data. | 04:50 |
LjL | ryouma, https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51731719 | 04:51 |
LjL | ryouma, this lists some of the common things that are likely to be an issue, but i assume there's many more | 04:51 |
LjL | and now i sleep | 04:53 |
ryouma | thank you | 04:57 |
adventurer | Goodnight LjL | 04:58 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:53 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: South Korea cases cross 6,700, Facebook temporarily bans face mask ads → https://is.gd/BfB4de | 05:02 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 British Columbia, Canada: +1 recoveries (now 4) 🔸 Toronto, ON, Canada: +1 recoveries (now 3) 🔸 Guangdong, Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 1234) 🔸 Jiangsu, Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 602) 🔸 Shanghai, Mainland China: +7 recoveries (now 313) | 05:17 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Mainland China: +3 recoveries (now 55415) 🔸 US: +1 deaths (now 17) 🔸 World: +1 deaths (now 3497), +3 recoveries (now 57450) | 05:30 |
adventurer | https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=882835805508716¬if_id=1583555777129830¬if_t=live_video | 05:37 |
adventurer | Australian live update. | 05:37 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Brazil: +1 cases (now 14) 🔸 US: +1 cases (now 331) 🔸 World: +2 cases (now 102282) | 05:43 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China posts lackluster trade data, Florida reports 2 deaths → https://is.gd/BfB4de | 05:53 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 US: +5 cases (now 336) 🔸 King County, WA, US: +1 cases (now 59) 🔸 World: +5 cases (now 102287) | 05:57 |
subring | anyone here doing any simulations (eg seir)? | 06:04 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 55416) 🔸 World: +1 recoveries (now 57451) | 06:10 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 US: +2 cases (now 338) 🔸 Harris County, TX, US: +1 cases (now 5) 🔸 World: +2 cases (now 102289) | 06:23 |
dunnp | tinwhiskers: 4^20 is a big number | 06:24 |
tinwhiskers | :-) yeah | 06:25 |
dunnp | hard to randomly match something | 06:25 |
dunnp | you can also have longer primers | 06:25 |
dunnp | it just shifts the melting temp | 06:25 |
subring | 4^20 has 13 digits | 06:26 |
subring | so it's on the order of 1 trillion | 06:26 |
dunnp | yes | 06:26 |
dunnp | also the reagents are not the hold up at all | 06:27 |
subring | anyone here done any SIR or SEIR modeling of COVID? | 06:27 |
dunnp | I could run 1000 tests tomorrow | 06:27 |
tinwhiskers | That's what I thought | 06:27 |
tinwhiskers | it's regulations, right? | 06:27 |
dunnp | its probably that they need to be run in a CLIA lab or something | 06:27 |
dunnp | yea | 06:27 |
dunnp | dont know what that is subring | 06:29 |
dunnp | university of washington is moving fast to get more rapid testing out though | 06:31 |
dunnp | shouldn't be long | 06:31 |
fructose | dunnp: In press conferences they've at least been saying that any lab with the FDA-approved test can run it. | 06:32 |
tinwhiskers | that's a a start. sadly many people will never be able to get a test anyway. | 06:32 |
subring | dunnp: a mathematical model commonly used for epidemic modeling | 06:33 |
dunnp | any lab huh... then maybe the FDA test requires them to provide the primers? | 06:33 |
fructose | And throwing out 1 million as the number of tests they are rolling out | 06:33 |
tinwhiskers | dunnp: they allowing other primers now too | 06:34 |
dunnp | I mean I guess it is how many 96 well plates you want to run | 06:34 |
fructose | It's largely automated already, so probably a lot | 06:34 |
dunnp | with what UW is reporting, they are just running a single machine | 06:35 |
tinwhiskers | :-/ | 06:35 |
dunnp | if they wanted to scale up there are probably 100 or so at their university | 06:35 |
tinwhiskers | laughable, except not | 06:36 |
fructose | I was told the bottleneck was just transferring the samples they were receiving | 06:36 |
dunnp | would be a massive effort to coordinate that | 06:36 |
dunnp | that makes sense fructose | 06:36 |
fructose | And they were hiring lab techs to do that | 06:36 |
fructose | And working with a company to automate even that, but that was months out | 06:36 |
tinwhiskers | the US can't ship stuff but other countries can | 06:36 |
dunnp | ah right subring | 06:37 |
tinwhiskers | no matter how you slice it the testing in the US is a huge joke and will remain so for many people | 06:37 |
dunnp | testing that many people also gets a little pricey | 06:38 |
dunnp | so there has to be some funding for it | 06:38 |
tinwhiskers | yet other countries charge between $0 to around $100 | 06:38 |
dunnp | well the country is paying for it | 06:38 |
tinwhiskers | exactly | 06:38 |
fructose | $12 billion was approved in the US | 06:39 |
dunnp | ^ | 06:39 |
dunnp | yea I don't imagine people will be paying for long | 06:39 |
tinwhiskers | well that'll be nice when it becomes available | 06:39 |
fructose | I'm not so sure, it's "socialism" | 06:39 |
dunnp | already seeing notices from people's insurance that it is entirely covered on twitter | 06:39 |
tinwhiskers | oh, that's good news at least. what about people with no insurance? | 06:40 |
ryouma | individual testing is primarily for the purpose of knowing what? deciding to go to hospital? whether to self-isolate? whether to ... have everybody in househould take more precautions? to inform central databases? | 06:40 |
fructose | dunnp: Only 28 million uninsured people. Low odds any of them get infected though, right? | 06:41 |
tinwhiskers | heh | 06:41 |
dunnp | well I think it will be free soon | 06:42 |
ryouma | i saw a picture of a country that had a well-designed testing setup. those who could drive would drive up to a place in a parking lot sort of like a micdonalds booth, get tested, and little risk of anybody getting infected from it | 06:42 |
dunnp | people haven't been taking it serious | 06:42 |
ryouma | so when tjhey do the hoardign willb e even more? | 06:43 |
dunnp | testing to try to stop the spred ryouma | 06:44 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 05:03 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Una vittoria per la la libera conoscenza. Grazie alla petizione per rendere di dominio pubblico oltre 32544 articoli inerenti al coronavirus la scienza dietro al Covid-19 è ora di libero accesso per tutti. → https://is.gd/6nUu05 | 06:44 |
dunnp | https://twitter.com/GavinNewsom/status/1235740745325142016?s=20 | 06:45 |
dunnp | we have ordered health insurance companies to waive ALL out-of-pocket costs for preventive coronavirus testing. | 06:45 |
dunnp | apparently that happend a few hours ago | 06:46 |
tinwhiskers | nice | 06:47 |
dunnp | Stanford and UCSF are deploying their own tests now | 06:48 |
fructose | Anything prevent the insurance companies from saying no and dragging it through the courts? I don't know California law well. | 06:48 |
dunnp | dono | 06:49 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 55417) 🔸 World: +1 recoveries (now 57452) | 06:50 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:45 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China posts lackluster trade data, Florida reports 2 deaths → https://is.gd/BfB4de | 07:01 |
ryouma | i assumed this, but didn't knoww hat was meant specifically: 22:44 <dunnp> testing to try to stop the spred ryouma | 07:05 |
dunnp | lock down areas with community spread by canceling events and closing schools | 07:06 |
dunnp | increase cleaning crews | 07:07 |
dunnp | etc | 07:07 |
dunnp | get people who are positive under isolation | 07:07 |
ryouma | what i didn't understand was, why would the individuals being tested pay for it at all if they are being tested by authorities in the first place | 07:10 |
dunnp | that I don't know | 07:11 |
dunnp | if they were in the hospital then the hospital just charges for everything | 07:11 |
ryouma | true | 07:12 |
ryouma | i mean, sounds like a reasonable thing to say | 07:12 |
dunnp | and the prices are all inflated which would be why the tests cost so much right now | 07:13 |
dunnp | $50 tylenol is a real thing | 07:13 |
ryouma | why is that inflated? | 07:14 |
dunnp | I think that it is a combination of paying for things associated with it like presumably a nurse brought you the tylenol so there is some personel expense | 07:15 |
dunnp | also because they have to cover the costs of the people without insurance that don't pay | 07:15 |
ryouma | oh yes a single tablet | 07:16 |
ryouma | except sometimes it is much more | 07:16 |
dunnp | yes I have a bill that is something liek $13k/min for an OR | 07:16 |
ryouma | and they ask you innocently as if they don't know that is what will occur. want a tablet? | 07:16 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Switzerland: +2 cases (now 216) 🔸 World: +2 cases (now 102291) | 07:17 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 06:16 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: 99 new cases and 29 new deaths in China, total 80,651 confirmed cases and 3,070 deaths. → https://is.gd/G8O3DH | 07:18 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Norway: +1 cases (now 128) 🔸 World: +1 cases (now 102292) | 07:43 |
fructose | https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762688 | 07:52 |
JX7P | %data Scotland | 07:58 |
Brainstorm | JX7P: 3 lest ah googled (45 seconds ago) | 07:58 |
JX7P | this gadgie speaks scots anaw | 07:59 |
subring | %data us | 07:59 |
Brainstorm | subring: In None, US, there are 338 cases, 17 deaths (5.0% of cases), 15 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 07:25:00 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 07:59 |
adventurer | %data australia | 08:00 |
Brainstorm | adventurer: In None, Australia, there are 64 cases, 2 deaths (3.1% of cases), 22 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 07:25:00 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Australia for time series data. | 08:00 |
Brainstorm | adventurer: Mortality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 8.0% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 08:00 |
BubuIIC1 | %data germany | 08:06 |
Brainstorm | BubuIIC1: In None, Germany, there are 670 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 18 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 07:25:00 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 08:06 |
subring | why haven't any died in germany? | 08:09 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China posts lackluster trade data, Florida reports 2 deaths → https://is.gd/BfB4de | 08:09 |
adventurer | https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/all-in-this-together-virus-in-90-nations-as-officials-warn-of-false-hopes-20200307-p547u7.html | 08:11 |
tinwhiskers | subring: I imagine that's just a statistical anomaly rather than entirely down to good management. | 08:19 |
tinwhiskers | Looking at other countries at the same stage of infection you'd expect about 6-8 deaths so I guess luck could account for that. | 08:20 |
tinwhiskers | What boggles my mind is that Vietnam hasn't had any infections for two weeks after building up to 17 initially | 08:23 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Mainland China: +5 recoveries (now 55422) 🔸 World: +5 recoveries (now 57457) | 08:23 |
fructose | tinwhiskers: They supposedly did 1000+ tests too | 08:35 |
tinwhiskers | You think they detected cases earlier than other countries so those people got better treatment? | 08:41 |
tinwhiskers | Rather, had better outcomes | 08:41 |
fructose | Much like India, I just find it difficult to believe there aren't more cases given the proximity and population | 08:46 |
tinwhiskers | Oh, I thought you were talking about Germany | 08:48 |
tinwhiskers | Yeah, Vietnam sharing a border with China seems like it might put them more at risk. | 08:49 |
fructose | 95 million people too... didn't realize how big it was until I started looking for outbreak potential | 08:50 |
tinwhiskers | Oh right. That is more than I expected too. | 08:52 |
tinwhiskers | They don't seem like the sort of country to hide stats though, although it is kinda communist | 08:54 |
tinwhiskers | But fairly progressive | 08:54 |
fructose | I thought I heard being a smoker was a risk factor, so maybe this is relevant... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/87/CigaretteConsumptionPerCapita.svg | 08:57 |
fructose | (Not that I think it explains Vietnam, I just wonder if there will end up being correlation there) | 08:58 |
python476 | hi back | 08:59 |
python476 | whats up on the front | 08:59 |
tinwhiskers | fructose: I think the smoking thing will pan out because it explains the apparent gender difference, which seems far more unlikely. | 09:06 |
tinwhiskers | Over 50% of Chinese males smoke and only around 2% of females | 09:08 |
tinwhiskers | (numbers pulled from memory so may not be quite right) | 09:08 |
fructose | tinwhiskers: http://hdr.undp.org/en/content/health-index | 09:15 |
fructose | tinwhiskers: That'd probably explain both Vietnam and India | 09:15 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 55423) 🔸 World: +1 recoveries (now 57458) | 09:17 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 55424) 🔸 Norway: +1 cases (now 129) 🔸 World: +1 cases (now 102293), +1 recoveries (now 57459) | 09:30 |
JX7P | %data Grampian | 09:41 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +27 recoveries (now 57486) 🔶 Mainland China: +27 recoveries (now 55451) | 09:41 |
Brainstorm | JX7P: Sorry, Grampian not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 09:41 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:49 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China exports plunge; Florida reports 2 deaths → https://is.gd/BfB4de | 09:50 |
aradesh | https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/51777621 | 09:53 |
aradesh | a scottish woman rugby player has tested positive for the virus | 09:53 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +14 cases (now 102307), +1 recoveries (now 57487) 🔶 Germany: +14 cases (now 684) 🔸 Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 55452) | 09:57 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 Hubei, Mainland China: +25 recoveries (now 43493) 🔸 Heilongjiang, Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 403) 🔸 Hunan, Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 960) 🔸 Xinjiang, Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 72) 🔸 Zhejiang, Mainland China: +5 recoveries (now 1154) | 10:10 |
adventurer | https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-07/tas-tasmanian-coronavirus-management-plan-revealed/12036226 | 10:17 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 55453) 🔸 World: +1 recoveries (now 57488) | 10:23 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 09:23 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: JHU CSSE reports 2 new cases in Iceland, total 45 confirmed cases → https://is.gd/xm6wRi | 10:24 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Norway: +5 cases (now 134) 🔸 World: +5 cases (now 102312) | 10:37 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 09:37 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: 1 new case in Senegal, 4 cases confirmed total → https://is.gd/YS7T3O | 10:41 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:56 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: South Korea cases top 7,000; Florida reports 2 deaths → https://is.gd/BfB4de | 10:58 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 10:13 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: DC Cancels March Comic Con Appearances Amid Coronavirus Concerns | Hollywood Reporter → https://is.gd/EGEahl | 11:15 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +15 recoveries (now 57503) 🔶 Mainland China: +15 recoveries (now 55468) | 11:17 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +303 cases (now 102615), +4 deaths (now 3501), +36 recoveries (now 57539) 🔶 South Korea: +274 cases (now 7041), +4 deaths (now 48) 🔶 Mainland China: +34 recoveries (now 55502) 🔶 Japan: +15 cases (now 435) 🔸 Croatia: +1 cases (now 12) 🔸 Germany: +8 cases (now 692) 🔸 Hong Kong, Hong Kong: +1 cases (now 108) 🔸 Philippines: +1 cases (now 6) 🔸 Thailand: +2 cases (now 50) 🔸 United Arab Emirate | 11:30 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: South Korea cases top 7,000; Florida reports 2 deaths → https://is.gd/BfB4de | 11:32 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 10:34 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: JHU CSSE reports 274 new cases in South Korea, 7,041 cases confirmed total. → https://is.gd/xoQdbH | 11:41 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +11 cases (now 102626), +2 recoveries (now 57541) 🔸 Austria: +8 cases (now 74) 🔸 Greece: +1 cases (now 46) 🔸 Mainland China: +2 recoveries (now 55504) 🔸 Norway: +2 cases (now 136) | 11:43 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Algeria: +2 cases (now 19) 🔸 Kuwait: +3 cases (now 61) 🔸 Mainland China: +6 recoveries (now 55510) 🔸 Fujian, Mainland China: +7 recoveries (now 291) 🔸 Guangdong, Mainland China: +3 recoveries (now 1237) 🔸 World: +5 cases (now 102631), +6 recoveries (now 57547) | 11:57 |
fructose | https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2001468 | 11:59 |
fructose | I regard that as deeply concerning | 11:59 |
fructose | "The fact that asymptomatic persons are potential sources of 2019-nCoV infection may warrant a reassessment of transmission dynamics of the current outbreak. In this context, the detection of 2019-nCoV and a high sputum viral load in a convalescent patient (Patient 1) arouse concern about prolonged shedding of 2019-nCoV after recovery. Yet, the viability of 2019-nCoV detected on qRT-PCR in this patient | 12:00 |
fructose | remains to be proved by means of viral culture." | 12:00 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Hungary: +1 cases (now 5) 🔸 Portugal: +2 cases (now 15) 🔸 Qatar: +1 cases (now 12) 🔸 World: +4 cases (now 102635) | 12:10 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Hubei, Mainland China: +7 recoveries (now 43500) 🔸 Malaysia: +10 cases (now 93) 🔸 World: +10 cases (now 102645) | 12:23 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:21 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: South Korea cases top 7,000; Florida reports 2 deaths → https://is.gd/BfB4de | 12:25 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +1136 cases (now 103781), +21 deaths (now 3522), +756 recoveries (now 58303) 🔶 Spain: +39 cases (now 441) 🔶 Iran: +1076 cases (now 5823), +21 deaths (now 145), +756 recoveries (now 1669) 🔶 Germany: +19 cases (now 711) 🔸 Henan, Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 1244) 🔸 Slovakia: +2 cases (now 3) | 12:37 |
Timvde | %cases Belgium | 12:38 |
Brainstorm | Timvde: In None, Belgium, there are 109 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 1 recoveries as of Fri Mar 6 13:33:03 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Belgium for time series data. | 12:38 |
Timvde | "None"? :p | 12:38 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Finland: +4 cases (now 19) 🔸 Georgia: +3 cases (now 12) 🔸 World: +7 cases (now 103788) | 12:50 |
JX7P | %cases Scotland | 12:59 |
Brainstorm | JX7P: 3 lest ah googled (45 seconds ago) | 12:59 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit Italy live at 11:59 UTC: /u/lessico_: Coronavirus, Zingaretti positivo al test - la Repubblica → https://is.gd/V4lqrq | 13:01 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +11 cases (now 103799) 🔸 Afghanistan: +3 cases (now 4) 🔸 Germany: +6 cases (now 717) 🔸 India: +2 cases (now 33) | 13:17 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:15 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: South Korea cases top 7,000; Florida reports 2 deaths → https://is.gd/BfB4de | 13:19 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 55511) 🔸 World: +1 recoveries (now 58304) | 13:30 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +62 cases (now 103861) 🔶 Belgium: +60 cases (now 169) 🔸 Poland: +1 cases (now 6) 🔸 South Africa: +1 cases (now 2) | 13:43 |
LjL | Timvde, Belgium doesn't exist, as we all know | 13:44 |
LjL | i'm going to get to work to reduce the bot's update frequency agian, i've got a better idea than yesterday's mess | 13:45 |
Brainstorm | 🔸 Bahrain: +2 cases (now 62) 🔸 Mainland China: +6 recoveries (now 55517) 🔸 World: +2 cases (now 103863), +6 recoveries (now 58310) | 13:57 |
LjL | Timvde, is belgium spiking today? | 13:57 |
LjL | <tinwhiskers> fructose: I think the smoking thing will pan out because it explains the apparent gender difference, which seems far more unlikely. | 14:01 |
LjL | <tinwhiskers> Over 50% of Chinese males smoke and only around 2% of females | 14:01 |
LjL | numbers are also what i've seen, and i've also thought "yeah that must definitely be due to the smoking" | 14:01 |
Timvde | LjL: I haven't heard an update today yet | 14:13 |
Timvde | Which is why I asked the bot | 14:13 |
Timvde | But that are also still yesterday's numbers | 14:14 |
Timvde | Aha | 14:14 |
LjL | Timvde, but it went +60 | 14:14 |
Timvde | 60 new patients, 169 now | 14:14 |
LjL | Timvde, are you stocked up on things that will quickly become harder to find? | 14:17 |
Timvde | Not really | 14:18 |
Timvde | Although we have a decent amount of rice, pasta and risotto lying around | 14:18 |
LjL | Timvde, if it is anything like Italy, food won't be a huge issue. people will hoard some, but supermarkets will easily be able to restock. on the other hand, face masks... well, face masks are already gone worldwide, so don't even bother with them... but buy hand sanitizer if you don't have that. hand sanitizer was a big issue for a while | 14:20 |
LjL | and you do want to have some of it in your pocket at all times now | 14:20 |
LjL | especially when you take public transport or go to the supermarket or other places where touching contaminated things is highly likely | 14:20 |
LjL | (at home, just wash your hands) | 14:21 |
Timvde | They said us that healthy people don't need face masks, we should leave them for doctors and people who are already sick | 14:31 |
LjL | Timvde, as long as there is such a shortage, yes you should, but honestly, it's not true we don't "need" them | 14:32 |
Timvde | I could buy some hand sanitizer, I guess | 14:32 |
pwr22 | <LjL "i'm going to get to work to redu"> What happened yesterday? | 14:32 |
LjL | Timvde, also in some countries crazy things like toilet paper ran out, but that was Japan, Japan is weird | 14:32 |
LjL | pwr22, well if you look at the backscroll, bot updates are just a little too frequent... now it's only going to send updates if at least one of them has a >10 increment | 14:33 |
LjL | if i've done it correctly this time, anyway, since i already tried yesterday and gave up, because my mind wasn't very lucid | 14:33 |
LjL | today the right way to do it suddenly seemed obvious :P | 14:33 |
pwr22 | Ah, it only updated every 30 mins right? | 14:37 |
pwr22 | I didn't mind that personally | 14:37 |
pwr22 | I'm wondering if trump's going to demand that cruise ship build a wall to help out out of US waters 😆 | 14:38 |
LjL | pwr22, well, no, not necessarily... tinwhiskers changed that to 15 minutes on my request (i do need faster response anyway, or else when i find issues with my codes, it takes forever to fix them if i have to wait 30 minutes to confirm they work). but also, my bot itself checks tinwhiskers's data every 800 seconds... upped it slightly from the original 300 | 14:38 |
pwr22 | *keep it out | 14:38 |
LjL | pwr22, i hope someone manages to override Trump in the management of COVID-19 or else the US is doomed worse than Italy | 14:39 |
pwr22 | Ah ok | 14:39 |
muhammadanasnaee | > 🔶 World: +62 cases (now 103861) 🔶 Belgium: +60 cases (now 169) 🔸 Poland: +1 cases (now 6) 🔸 South Africa: +1 cases (now 2) | 14:39 |
muhammadanasnaee | Is this official or rigged number I suspect the affected are much higher than this number probably 500000+ and deaths are 35000+ | 14:39 |
LjL | they are official numbers, with "unofficial" updates for more completeness, but the unofficial ones are really still coming from the JHU | 14:40 |
LjL | sadly the bot cannot divine the real numbers, whatever they are :) | 14:40 |
pwr22 | Do you think he's asked about nuking it yet? | 14:40 |
pwr22 | I think he probably has | 14:41 |
pwr22 | <LjL "sadly the bot cannot divine the "> Yeah, where would we get the data from? | 14:41 |
pwr22 | Oh out of interest, how does that matrix reply show on the IRC side? | 14:41 |
Timvde | <Name "First few words of quote"> Your reply | 14:43 |
LjL | pwr22, in a very annoying way :P | 14:43 |
LjL | yeah, what he says | 14:43 |
LjL | but i've gotten used to it, can't help it when so many people are actually "IRCing" from Matrix now | 14:43 |
LjL | specifically 19<pwr22> <LjL "sadly the bot cannot divine the "> Yeah, where would we get the data from? | 14:43 |
LjL | another thing that's quite annoying is when people on Matrix edit messages... that wasn't always a feature (only removing was possible before, and that simply did nothing on the IRC side) | 14:44 |
LjL | now every edit is posted as a new message with a "*" tacked on... which becomes horrible if someone repeatedly edits their message | 14:44 |
LjL | i have a feeling sooner or later the Matrix and the IRC camps will throw a fit at each other. bridging seems cool but it doesn't come without issue, more so when the features and cultures start diverging | 14:45 |
LjL | i guess right now i'm in both camps | 14:45 |
LjL | if you know what i mean | 14:45 |
pwr22 | Huh, I'd rather it quote the whole message | 14:45 |
LjL | pwr22, that might not be a great idea due to the overall lesss-than-512-char length limit of IRC | 14:46 |
Timvde | pwr22: then it should split in two messages | 14:46 |
LjL | and the tendency by Matrix people to write longer messages (because there is no such limit) | 14:46 |
pwr22 | Ah | 14:46 |
Timvde | Which could be fine, unless people overuse the feature | 14:46 |
Timvde | LjL: I'm not sure if that's actually common | 14:46 |
pwr22 | If I was on the IRC side I wouldn't find what it does "annoying" though personally | 14:46 |
LjL | Timvde, that's just because you're used to my unusually lengthy IRC messages that get split into two or three parts :P | 14:47 |
Timvde | I mean, IRC clients also just split long messages into multiple lines | 14:47 |
Timvde | But it just rarely happens, because people like their enter button | 14:47 |
LjL | Timvde, sadly not all IRC clients, some just cut if off | 14:47 |
pwr22 | Is that message length in IRC a global thing or network specific? | 14:47 |
LjL | pwr22, global, although networks can make it shorter than 512 (not sure if the specs allow making it longer than that) | 14:48 |
Timvde | Network specific, but I think 512 is already on the long side :p | 14:48 |
LjL | (anyway in practice it's never longer than 512) | 14:48 |
pwr22 | I'm sure I've written longer than that many in one message on IRC before but maybe I'm just not good at guessing the length | 14:49 |
LjL | pwr22, it's almost 4 SMS, if that tells you anything | 14:49 |
Timvde | pwr22: your client probably split it | 14:50 |
pwr22 | Yeah I guess | 14:57 |
LjL | pwr22, oh, and here's an example of a long message sent on Matrix *sigh* i think this is the very worst thing | 15:04 |
LjL | pwr22, 18* 26muhammadanasnaee sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/fLpGbXBVFAoYjczENgdiTdfY > | 15:04 |
LjL | muhammadanasnaee, i absolutely don't understand your question | 15:05 |
LjL | also please try to keep messages in one line... this is also an IRC channel and multiple line messages are unwieldy for most people here :( | 15:05 |
LjL | also your naturalnews link just sends me back to the naturalnews.com homepage | 15:06 |
muhammadanasnaee | I had the only link so that's why I shared it what I want to know is that the numbers mentioned in the link are they true or not ? | 15:06 |
pwr22 | LjL: yeah that's definitely not great | 15:06 |
muhammadanasnaee | > also your naturalnews link just sends me back to the naturalnews.com homepage | 15:07 |
muhammadanasnaee | I don't think so. | 15:07 |
muhammadanasnaee | Let me check once again. | 15:07 |
pwr22 | Probably worth IRC people giving feedback to the bridge developers | 15:07 |
LjL | muhammadanasnaee, well, i clicked it, and i was redirected to the homepage... | 15:07 |
pwr22 | Or even making PRs themselves | 15:07 |
muhammadanasnaee | https://www.naturalnews.com/ | 15:07 |
muhammadanasnaee | Check now. | 15:07 |
LjL | pwr22, as far as i'm aware, at least the way "reply" messages are handled has been criticized innumerable times, yet the bridge developer(s?) have always refused to change it. that's from hearsay, i haven't looked at the issues. | 15:07 |
muhammadanasnaee | So you don't like inline replying it doesn't goes off the context at least... | 15:08 |
pwr22 | LjL: it's probably not true unless there's a good reason for it - they are generally a very reasonable bunch and quite passionate about bridging | 15:09 |
pwr22 | The IRC bridge is one of the "official" ones I think | 15:09 |
pwr22 | So they'd definitely not want to be pissing off the IRC networks | 15:09 |
LjL | muhammadanasnaee, ah so you *were* really just pointing to the homepage. okay, i see. well, i would say that calling the official estimates "rigged" is very strong, and misleading, language. it's *possible* that in some countries (maybe China, according to some) they are trying to minimize new case reports. however, in general, the numbers are lower than reality simply because we haven't tested everyone. it's not a mystery than more people are sick than | 15:09 |
LjL | the official numbers. the official numbers are of people who have been tested, but "officials" don't deny that there are almost certainly many more that haven't been tested yet | 15:09 |
LjL | pwr22, well, i don't know, but i've seen this thing mentioned multiple times. i don't know any of the Matrix.org admins. i believe that the bridge itself is developed by LeoNerd. i don't know much further about that | 15:10 |
pwr22 | muhammadanasnaeem: we're less conspiracy focussed in this channel 😁. Though I suspect the US cases are probably lmited by testing right now | 15:10 |
LjL | as in, LeoNerd is not a Matrix.org admin, it's his own thing... although obviously i'd expect Matrix.org admins (as well as freenode staff) to have a say on the matter, in practice | 15:11 |
LjL | muhammadanasnaee, personally, if you ask me, i think the "500000+ infected" number is too high, but possible. the "35000+" dead is just silly and untrue. | 15:11 |
pwr22 | LjL: LeoNerd wrote the initial Perl bridge but it's not even written in Perl anymore so I think now. Also it's usually HalfShot who fixes it iirc | 15:11 |
LjL | pwr22, well, that's how much i know and am up to date 'about the whole thing | 15:12 |
pwr22 | We can solve the problems by getting everyone to join on Matrix anyway 😉 | 15:12 |
LjL | i kinda like IRC ;( | 15:12 |
LjL | i've been here since the 90s, it still works | 15:12 |
LjL | i don't dislike Matrix, either, but i'm not sure i'm ready to just ditch IRC | 15:12 |
pwr22 | 😝 | 15:12 |
pwr22 | That's the beauty of the matrix bridging 😃 | 15:13 |
pwr22 | You don't have to | 15:13 |
pwr22 | Anyhow, I'll just up about matrix for like 30 mins 🤣 | 15:14 |
subring | pwr22: what is that character you keep putting at the end of each line? | 15:22 |
pwr22 | An emoji | 15:23 |
subring | oh ok | 15:23 |
pwr22 | Standard unicode stuff | 15:23 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:16 UTC: South Korea coronavirus cases top 7,000; Florida reports 2 deaths: The number of cases across the globe grew to at least 102,469, while deaths rose to 3,491 as of Saturday. → https://is.gd/BfB4de | 15:23 |
pwr22 | Though i'm not sure what the bridge does with it | 15:23 |
dunnp | emojis work for me in irssi - never seen them in irc before though so strange | 15:38 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 14:40 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: 60 more cases in the Netherlands, total confirmed 188 → https://is.gd/rssa6Z | 15:41 |
python476 | do you think it's foolish to go jog in the woods ? | 15:46 |
LjL | python476, why would it be? | 15:47 |
python476 | LjL: I don't know, inhaling tons of cold air, exhausting your body a little .. | 15:48 |
python476 | just being overly cautious | 15:48 |
python476 | I need to de-stress and jogging is usually how I do | 15:48 |
iz | jogging is probably safer than using public transit | 15:48 |
python476 | true | 15:49 |
zirpu[m] | dunno about that, some crazy bus drivers out there. :-) | 15:49 |
LjL | python476, unless you overdo it, i don't see how some exercise would make your immune system *worse*. afaik evidence points to the very opposite | 15:49 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:46 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Pope cancels major public appearances as cases surge in Europe → https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 15:49 |
python476 | just don't jog in front of buses zirpu | 15:49 |
python476 | LjL: you know some paper about immune boost from jogging ? | 15:49 |
LjL | lol, no | 15:49 |
python476 | also I take some vitamin c+d supplements | 15:50 |
zirpu[m] | what's the pope afraid of? that his god won't just magic the virus out of him on a prayer? sheesh, what a hypocrit. | 15:50 |
LjL | python476, fwiw, the immune system being *too* strong may also make this virus worse from all-system inflammation, according to some | 15:50 |
subring | zirpu[m]: stop being an idiot | 15:50 |
python476 | LjL: like immune inflammation overload ? | 15:50 |
LjL | subring, that seems a bit too much of a reaction, although i think zirpu[m] could have spared the pope joke | 15:51 |
LjL | python476, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytokine_release_syndrome | 15:51 |
zirpu[m] | in his defense, he is at risk, born in 1936. | 15:52 |
LjL | zirpu[m], he was also "off sick" a while ago, with rumors abounding, but, he actually tested negative | 15:52 |
zirpu[m] | the flu at his age can be deadly. | 15:53 |
iz | god did save him! | 15:53 |
iz | :b | 15:53 |
python476 | anyway, gonna jog with a gun | 15:53 |
python476 | so I can shoot viruses on sight | 15:53 |
iz | hehe | 15:53 |
python476 | oh god, virus on my nose #SHOOTS | 15:53 |
iz | remember if you are jogging and you encounter a wild virus, you should try to make yourself appear as tall as possible, putting your arms above your head | 15:54 |
python476 | :DD | 15:54 |
zirpu[m] | i had a friend that encountered a bear on a hike once. she decided to just start singing loudly. the bear hissed at her, so she shut up and continued on. so lessosn learned: bears dance, but they don't sing. :-) | 15:56 |
iz | if you encounter a bear, sing never give you up to the bear so it leaves in rickrolled shame | 15:58 |
python476 | bbl | 16:01 |
LjL | ! | 16:01 |
zirpu[m] | wow. | 16:02 |
sneep | canceling events is something you do to protect the public, not the people holding the event | 16:03 |
zirpu[m] | handshakes may stop being a thing, finally. | 16:03 |
dunnp | https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/italy-lambrusco-wine-from-faucet-castelvetro-trnd/index.html | 16:05 |
dunnp | some perks in Italy still | 16:06 |
dunnp | ;) | 16:06 |
zirpu[m] | man. i have the rickroll earworm now. gah! | 16:06 |
zirpu[m] | i look forward to the day when we have tiny hologram projectors and can rickroll people with The Man himself. :-) | 16:08 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 15:16 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: 4 new cases in Slovenia, national total 12 → https://is.gd/OUNFmH | 16:24 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Pope cancels major public appearances as cases surge in Europe → https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 16:42 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 15:55 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: 2 new cases in the Czech Republic, total confirmed 21 → https://is.gd/MO0x4m | 16:59 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Pope cancels major public appearances as cases surge in Europe → https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 17:17 |
python476 | hi back | 17:17 |
python476 | no covid seen in the woods | 17:17 |
python476 | they're hiding | 17:17 |
LjL | Hurray, now we know where to flee | 17:20 |
python476 | yeah, let's pack everybody in the woods | 17:20 |
python476 | so now we're cold and promiscuous | 17:21 |
python476 | oh god | 17:28 |
python476 | finally reading https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/journal-plague-year-180965222/ | 17:28 |
python476 | it's basically trump PR strategy | 17:28 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:23 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Dozens trapped after hotel used for quarantine collapses in China → https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 17:34 |
LjL | There's like... the whole city outdoors, more kids than I ever remember seeing concentrated in parks... I get that they need to get out of home since it's the weekend and they can't even go to school anymore, but, then when they show us empty squares on TV, that's just where foreign tourists (very reasonably) void going. But instead the Milanese don't really appear to give a shit... it looks nothing like a quarantine. But this is actually scary to me | 17:50 |
LjL | And okay, I'm outdoors too, there IS a need to avoid going crazy indoors, but I'm very carefully going to the emptiest possible streets | 17:50 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 16:35 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: 16 new cases reported in Japan, total confirmed 447. → https://is.gd/VjTR9u | 17:52 |
python476 | just when we have tech that makes people have infinite amount of "distractions" indoor, they get out more than ever | 17:52 |
python476 | HAHA | 17:52 |
python476 | isn't it ironic ~_~ | 17:52 |
spybert | very. They like to video themselves outdoors and post it on facebook :)) | 17:53 |
python476 | humanity:-500000:2020, cause of death, overwhelming stupido-ironia | 17:54 |
aradesh | when i was out today i wsa thinking about all of the things i was touching that could have been contaminated... | 17:56 |
aradesh | the cash machine buttons, then my wallet, and my phone | 17:56 |
aradesh | then my laptop at home | 17:56 |
python476 | we should all be wearing alcohol distributing gloves | 17:58 |
slash_ | it's especially bad when you have to use public transport, too many things that are touched by too many people | 18:02 |
slash_ | here in the subway you need to push a button to open the doors, it's touched by thousands of people daily | 18:03 |
python476 | slash_: I lazily let people open doors last time I took the subway | 18:04 |
python476 | cold calculation in my head | 18:04 |
slash_ | python476 that is what I am doing too haha, I just go to the door where there's already people waiting to exit | 18:04 |
slash_ | at least the check in/out system is by using a contactless card, and they banned cash payments in december, so that's nice at least | 18:06 |
slash_ | cash payments in public transport only I mean (to clarify) | 18:06 |
python476 | i did exchange coins at the bakery | 18:07 |
python476 | pastry will end me | 18:07 |
aradesh | slash_: i use public transport, and i'm ofte the person opening the door as i somehow tend to stand in the right place | 18:10 |
slash_ | the bread departments in supermarkets here are bad as well, they look like this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DJBR6SuWAAAqBZf?format=jpg&name=medium | 18:11 |
aradesh | guess should open the door with my elbow | 18:11 |
slash_ | basically they're self service and people take the pastry with their bare hands.. | 18:11 |
slash_ | aradesh if that works, the buttons here are often too small for that | 18:12 |
aradesh | yeah, ours are big and chunky | 18:13 |
slash_ | in older train carriages you need to push the button quite far too.. | 18:13 |
aradesh | slash_: given that, i just updated my grocery delivery to have the bread that is in a plastic packet... | 18:14 |
slash_ | spray it with alcohol before pushing :p | 18:14 |
aradesh | what does alcohol do? | 18:14 |
slash_ | it kills bacteria and viruses | 18:14 |
slash_ | it's generally the best for quick desinfection | 18:15 |
python476 | dissolves lipid membrane in cells | 18:15 |
slash_ | although not ideal for washing hands | 18:15 |
slash_ | python476 yes exactly | 18:15 |
python476 | pot ash is great to clean hands | 18:15 |
slash_ | yeah and just plain old soap | 18:15 |
python476 | the only negative side effect is that you don't have hands anymore | 18:15 |
python476 | but they're very clean | 18:16 |
slash_ | alcohol is good to desinfect surfaces though | 18:16 |
python476 | listering contains alcohol | 18:16 |
python476 | listerine* | 18:16 |
python476 | I'm gonna rob pharmacy's dental shelves | 18:16 |
slash_ | not all, there's alcohol free listerine too | 18:16 |
slash_ | it's called "sensitive mouth" or something | 18:16 |
dunnp | you need 70% too | 18:16 |
dunnp | not just a little alcohol | 18:17 |
slash_ | i use 99% isopropyl alcohol for cleaning doorknobs and stuff | 18:17 |
aradesh | why is it not ideal for washing hands? | 18:17 |
LjL | aradesh, it's aggressive, slightly (not very) toxic, and makes your hands dry. having dry hands, in turn, makes infections more likely because your own "oil" is protective | 18:18 |
slash_ | aradesh because in addition to bacteria and viruses it damages the protective layer of your hands | 18:18 |
aradesh | we have alcohol based hand-wash in our office, and it definitely makes my hands dry | 18:18 |
slash_ | it's bad for living things in general basically :P | 18:18 |
LjL | aradesh, that's why hand gels that have alcohol (isopropyl or otherwise) also have glycerine and/or other things to moisten your skin | 18:18 |
dunnp | slash_: 99% isnt as effective as 70% | 18:18 |
dunnp | you should dilute it | 18:18 |
slash_ | dunnp why? because of quicker evaporation? | 18:18 |
dunnp | no | 18:19 |
LjL | <slash_> here in the subway you need to push a button to open the doors, it's touched by thousands of people daily ← here it's even sillier, they made new trains (and also buses and everything) with those buttons, but they have never been operational. some people push them anyway but it does nothing, the doors just open | 18:19 |
dunnp | slash_: https://blog.gotopac.com/2017/05/15/why-is-70-isopropyl-alcohol-ipa-a-better-disinfectant-than-99-isopropanol-and-what-is-ipa-used-for/ | 18:20 |
LjL | basically, the water helps make the virions explode | 18:20 |
LjL | that should be taken as a metaphor :P | 18:20 |
slash_ | dunnp "The presence of water is a crucial factor in destroying or inhibiting the growth of pathogenic microorganisms with isopropyl alcohol. Water acts as a catalyst and plays a key role in denaturing the proteins of vegetative cell membranes." | 18:20 |
slash_ | thanks this is good to know | 18:20 |
dunnp | for disinfecting lab benches we use 70% EtOH | 18:21 |
slash_ | I'll make a bottle 70/30 alcohol/water | 18:21 |
dunnp | isopropyl just as good though | 18:21 |
Spec | mmm isoprop | 18:22 |
python476 | interesting factoid | 18:23 |
slash_ | LjL we have bicycle crossings here, that have a button you can push to cross, but in many places they don't actually do anything | 18:25 |
slash_ | LjL they are just there to give people the sense that "something is happening" | 18:26 |
dunnp | maybe should just buy latex gloves and wear them when out? | 18:26 |
dunnp | can still get those on amazon | 18:26 |
slash_ | gloves work yeah, just gotta know how to take them off properly | 18:27 |
LjL | slash_, lol, that reminds me of something that just happened when i was outside half an hour ago, there was a pedestrian-only light (they are rare here) which had a button, which i think actually *does* need to be pressed in order to get a green light, unlike most of those buttons which do nothing... we didn't press it, we just crossed when no cars were incoming, and a group of old ladies on the other side actually yelled at me "it's red! it's red!" | 18:27 |
LjL | i wanted to be like "and why the hell do YOU care?", but i just said "sure, but it won't get green for you unless you press the button, you know" | 18:27 |
LjL | dunnp, yes, we bought a couple packages of thin gloves | 18:28 |
LjL | if you have to go to supermarkets etc, those seem like a good idea to me | 18:28 |
LjL | don't hoard them please... one box contains a ton of them | 18:28 |
LjL | more than enough hoarding has already occurred | 18:28 |
slash_ | LjL there's a poorly adjusted light bicycle crossing light here where one side gets green, but the other side is still red for a while... it's really annoying | 18:29 |
dunnp | I think that there is a pretty robust supply of gloves | 18:29 |
LjL | slash_, i find many of our lights are set up terribly | 18:29 |
LjL | slash_, where do you live? | 18:29 |
slash_ | LjL netherlands | 18:29 |
LjL | at least you *have* bicycle paths there | 18:29 |
LjL | we're starting to get them though, slowly but surely (mainly because the EU gives you money when you make them) | 18:29 |
slash_ | LjL a lot of badly configured crossing lights here too | 18:29 |
LjL | although... maybe everything will stop now :\ i fear this virus will kill the world economy real bad | 18:30 |
slash_ | LjL maybe.. on the other hand, bicyles and bicycle lanes are cheaper than regular cars and roads so who knows | 18:30 |
slash_ | LjL which country btw? | 18:32 |
LjL | slash_, more relevantly, which city/region :\ Milan | 18:32 |
slash_ | ah shit you're in the middle of it all | 18:33 |
LjL | yeah | 18:33 |
slash_ | in any case I would prefer a bicycle over public transport currently | 18:33 |
LjL | that's why i said it felt a bit surreal to see so many people outdoors not caring at all | 18:33 |
LjL | surreal / worrisome | 18:33 |
LjL | if this were China, Milan would be on lockdown | 18:33 |
LjL | instead they've told the elderly to stay home as much as possible - apparently the non-elderly took that as an invitation to go out as much as possible | 18:34 |
slash_ | I've seen 0 people with masks so far.. | 18:34 |
LjL | with tons of kids, who apparently don't get this seriously, but are very good at spreading it | 18:34 |
slash_ | no panic buying etc either | 18:34 |
LjL | slash_, i have, in the metro, but then afterwards i've stopped taking the metro, because... well | 18:34 |
LjL | slash_, and yet the netherlands is VERY densely populated, when it hits you hard it could be pretty bad | 18:34 |
dunnp | checking out my local costco to see how bad it is there | 18:35 |
slash_ | LjL just yesterday they recommended people in one of our provinces to stay at home if they have any symptoms like cough/fever/etc | 18:35 |
slash_ | LjL but people don't really seem to take it seriously | 18:35 |
LjL | yeah, same here | 18:35 |
LjL | and it's much worse here, so... i don't get people | 18:35 |
slash_ | LjL we just had carnaval in that province, people from the whole country went there, and from other countries too | 18:36 |
slash_ | now it has the highest amount of cases with lots of cases where they can't trace the origin | 18:36 |
LjL | slash_, but also i don't get the media, and i don't like them. the word "Milan" was practically never stated about this epidemic, despite the fact the epidemic is like 90% of TV coverage these days. i assume they think if they say "Lombardy" but never mention Milan as the seriously huge issue in Lombardy if it gets infected, then magically it won't happen | 18:36 |
slash_ | LjL we've had several cases of people that had visited just Milan | 18:37 |
LjL | slash_, they cancelled the Venice carnival here, which is usually a big event, but i saw footage with lots of people in carnival masks anyway... *and* face masks at the same time. if those are the morons who hoarded away all face masks, then honestly i kind of hope they catch the virus | 18:37 |
LjL | slash_, yes, of course, it's obvious to anyone who can put 2+2 together that Milan is full of this. the initial big cluster is just 50km from Milan, and people who live in those towns very, very often are commuters to Milan | 18:38 |
LjL | but if you can't put 2+2 together, apparently the media prefer you to continue doing so | 18:38 |
zirpu[m] | the costco i visited yesterday was all out of masks, sanitizer, etc. also rice and beans. ppl finally taking preppers seriously. | 18:38 |
slash_ | LjL yeah I read that... here they postponed some carnival parades due storms, and now they are going to do those parades to catch up lol | 18:38 |
LjL | slash_, i think the ones who're saying authoritarian regimes will get out of this much better off are, sadly, going to be proven right | 18:39 |
LjL | i still don't endorse authoritarianism, but i have to observe this fact | 18:39 |
slash_ | LjL because it would "be a waste to have built those parade carts" lol | 18:39 |
zirpu[m] | agreed. | 18:39 |
zirpu[m] | about authoritarn regimes not parade cards. :-) | 18:39 |
slash_ | democratic societies still have emergency powers, for... emergencies | 18:39 |
LjL | well then i don't know when they're going to seriously use them | 18:40 |
slash_ | but it seems that in Europe it is not an emergency.. | 18:40 |
zirpu[m] | they are increasingly hard to implement though. | 18:40 |
LjL | i mean, we *are* in a state of emergency, there *has* been a quarantine declared in two places, and they *made* country-wide laws limiting some activities | 18:40 |
LjL | but it's really all so... bland | 18:40 |
slash_ | yes, but look at Singapore, it has proven to work | 18:40 |
LjL | it won't contain the virus, it won't even really *try* | 18:40 |
slash_ | in Singapore they started temperature testing tourists/visitors TWO DAYS after the outbreak started in Wuhan | 18:41 |
slash_ | on januari 2 | 18:41 |
LjL | they've basically told us, we have to stay at least 1m from each other, so cinemas etc have to either close down, or make people sit more than 1m apart. also, we are recommended not to shake hands. | 18:41 |
zirpu[m] | eventually airtravel will need to come to a halt for a while. | 18:41 |
slash_ | and mandatory quarantine for everyone who has been in contact with someone proven to be infected | 18:41 |
LjL | i mean, sure, that's going to save the day! | 18:41 |
slash_ | how are you going to stay 1m away on public transport during rush hour lol | 18:41 |
LjL | slash_, in Italy they started checking temperature pretty early in airports, and we were also the first to block all direct flights with China. but then that's useless without Schengen being suspended, since other countries didn't do the same thing | 18:42 |
LjL | and i'm usually a huge supporter of having Schengen stay as open as possible, and i'm really pissed off at countries like France having kept it suspended since 2015 with the excuse of ongoing terrorism | 18:43 |
LjL | but... now is just a different game | 18:43 |
slash_ | LjL we have Schiphol which has huge amounts of visitors from all over the world daily... we do not even do temperature checks.. sigh | 18:43 |
slash_ | LjL EU has a big problem yeah, we need all countries to take measures, it doesn't work otherwise | 18:43 |
LjL | slash_, oh yeah they showed on TV the part where people were "complaining" they couldn't stay 1m away on trains... and the worse part... about half of the commuted trains had been CANCELLED. guess why? because they are directed to disinfect the trains, and they couldn't disinfect enough of them. so now people are even *more* crammed than usual on the trains | 18:44 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Dozens trapped after hotel used for quarantine collapses in China → https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 18:44 |
LjL | this is the kind of ridiculous... that... i can't even... sometimes i just laugh and think "okay, i know, it's italy" but now i'm not feeling in a funny mood | 18:44 |
slash_ | what annoys me the most, is authorities and media downplaying the issues. I understand not wanting to cause panic, but just be clear about the situation dammit and give CLEAR AND CONCRETE instructions on how to prevent infections! | 18:45 |
slash_ | better a little panic early than a lot panic when things get out of control | 18:46 |
zirpu[m] | and don't let idiots speak their "hunches" as if they know what they're talking about. | 18:46 |
LjL | slash_, and in my opinion they create MORE panic (for me at least) when they act like this. for example, one of my pet peeves is, they've shown SO often footage of people in full suits spraying something (presumably disinfectant) all over the streets in China, Korea, and other places. they've kept showing it. they've NEVER once commented on it, said what it was, what they were doing and why it was necessary. then they tell us "oh it only survives for a few | 18:47 |
LjL | hours on surfaces". then why the hell would you disinfect streets? EXPLAIN | 18:47 |
zirpu[m] | facts are needed, not opinions. 2 people go in a room, 3 opinions come out. :-) | 18:47 |
slash_ | zirpu[m] it's also very important government and government agencies "speak as one" so to say, be CLEAR and do not spread conflicting messages | 18:47 |
zirpu[m] | true. | 18:47 |
zirpu[m] | the street thing is just security theater like in the airports. | 18:47 |
slash_ | agreed, the lack of information makes people speculate and come up with their own theories and ideas | 18:48 |
slash_ | so we have this bunch of students, around 900 who went to Northern Italy this week for holiday, and everybody was critizing them for it due to the risk | 18:49 |
slash_ | and now they have returned, and 4 are being tested due to symptoms, but the government said they will not confirm/deny if they are positive/negative | 18:49 |
slash_ | to clarify: it was from one student organization those 900, all in the same location | 18:50 |
zirpu[m] | i hope we all live to see a well made documentary about this. :-\ | 18:50 |
LjL | %cases italy | 18:50 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Italy, there are 5883 cases, 233 deaths (4.0% of cases), 589 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 18:33:03 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 18:50 |
LjL | good lord | 18:50 |
LjL | but why didn't the bot post the update, pfff | 18:50 |
LjL | or *any* update for that matter. i seriously can't make my code work for longer than ten minutes at a time | 18:51 |
slash_ | also they are in the north of the country, where there are currently 0 cases, so when they say a case is found in that area everyone is going to assume it is those students | 18:51 |
dunnp | every shop around here is sold out of isopropyl alcohol | 18:51 |
dunnp | wow | 18:51 |
slash_ | i bought mine online | 18:51 |
LjL | dunnp, here they were sold out of denaturated ethanol first | 18:52 |
dunnp | slash_: from where? | 18:52 |
LjL | i bought 1L isopropyl on amazon for €14 (pretty high, i know) | 18:52 |
slash_ | a Dutch webshop, it was even a discount lol | 18:52 |
slash_ | lemme check | 18:52 |
dunnp | ah | 18:52 |
slash_ | 3 for price of 2 (3x 1L) | 18:52 |
dunnp | i cant find it on amazon | 18:53 |
slash_ | was 2 weeks ago though | 18:53 |
slash_ | dunnp try to find a beauty webshop, they use it as well | 18:54 |
slash_ | for cleaning nails | 18:54 |
zirpu[m] | the highest moral standard in capitalism is profit. so the politicos saying companies shouldn't gouge customers is just naive or hypocracy. | 18:55 |
slash_ | it's still available on amazon in EU | 18:55 |
slash_ | for reasonable prices too | 18:55 |
zirpu[m] | * the highest moral standard in capitalism is profit. so the politicos saying companies shouldn't gouge customers is just naive or hypocrisy. | 18:56 |
LjL | zirpu[m], they shouldn't say they "shouldn't", they should immediately pass emergency laws to force them | 18:56 |
zirpu[m] | gawd i hayt inglc speling | 18:56 |
slash_ | dunnp amazon.de might ship to NA, worth a shot maybe | 18:56 |
LjL | slash_, i wouldn't try that, you get to pay Customs and probably wait a good while | 18:56 |
LjL | and it might be a restricted good | 18:56 |
dunnp | i found some at walmart | 18:57 |
LjL | ethanol is even kind of restricted within the EU | 18:57 |
slash_ | LjL yeah that's true, although the price is still low so maybe worth the risk | 18:57 |
slash_ | LjL ethanol yes, but isopropyl is not restricted as it cannot be consumed | 18:58 |
slash_ | it's quite poisenous | 18:58 |
slash_ | or toxic | 18:58 |
slash_ | I always mix those two up | 18:58 |
LjL | slash_, yeah, but i don't know about America, and it might still be restricted as flammable or otherwise dangerous | 18:58 |
LjL | and i know anecdotically that when the USPS "flag" you as an importer of annoying things, your future packages start always taking forever to arrive | 18:59 |
zirpu[m] | ethanol is a fuel additive here in the US afaik. | 18:59 |
slash_ | LjL yeah might be so, there should information about this on the customs website for your country | 18:59 |
slash_ | zirpu[m] yes same here | 19:00 |
LjL | slash_, hopefully the customs website for the US is more usable than ours then because ours is hopeless :P | 19:00 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:58 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Dozens trapped after hotel used for quarantine collapses in China → https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 19:00 |
slash_ | LjL well, it's sortof doable, but yes it is not always very clear | 19:01 |
LjL | slash_, i've only dared to order from outside of the EU a couple of times... when i bought my Bip (a cheapish but kind of special smartwatch) i got a lot of headaches from customs | 19:02 |
LjL | took forever, then i had to provide proof of purchase (to show them the price) | 19:02 |
LjL | the watch was €50, i had to pay €25 in taxes+duties | 19:02 |
LjL | but gearbest refunded the €25, because of reasons | 19:02 |
LjL | so at least i only paid what i was initially meaning to pay | 19:02 |
slash_ | LjL so it appears that "alcohol for non human consumption" is excise free when importing to the EU | 19:03 |
LjL | but it was definitely a very different thing from buying from within the EU, which usually takes like 3 days to arrive | 19:03 |
slash_ | LjL yeah things like that are a hit/miss situation when importing bth | 19:03 |
slash_ | tbh* | 19:03 |
Spec | denatured ethanol is not restricted in the states | 19:04 |
LjL | Spec, isopropyl also? | 19:04 |
slash_ | denatured alcohol should cover isopropyl alcohol | 19:06 |
aradesh | i've been better at not touching my face. i catch my self about half way towards scratching an itch most of the time | 19:06 |
slash_ | denatured should mean "alcohol made unsuitable for human consumption", and should cover various forms | 19:07 |
slash_ | such as isopropyl | 19:08 |
LjL | but isopropyl is not *made* unsuitable, it is just naturally so :P | 19:08 |
LjL | so yeah it should reasonably fall under importable types, but it doesn't strictly fit the definition | 19:08 |
Spec | LjL: isoprop is not restricted | 19:08 |
slash_ | well, it's made like that yes, but for EU customs at least it falls under that definition too | 19:08 |
Spec | only pure ethanol is restricted due to alcohol tax monopoly bullshit | 19:08 |
Spec | slash_: sometimes isoprop is put into ethanol to make ethanol denatured :P | 19:09 |
slash_ | Spec yes that is true as well | 19:09 |
slash_ | Italy 1247 new cases, shit! | 19:12 |
slash_ | LjL is the Italian government going to take more measures you think? | 19:13 |
Spec | yes | 19:14 |
Spec | like all governments everywhere, they'll say it's fine until it's not and then overreact and become draconian | 19:14 |
Spec | or maybe that's just my internal expectations for my own government | 19:14 |
slash_ | Spec well mine is doing that as well... | 19:15 |
slash_ | it's just so frustrating | 19:15 |
slash_ | to me it looks like they are barely trying to contain it | 19:16 |
Spec | slash_: what government do you swear fealty to? | 19:17 |
slash_ | when you look at Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan and China it's like Europe does barely anything... | 19:17 |
LjL | slash_, what Spec said | 19:18 |
slash_ | Spec well I wouldn't go as far as swearing fealty.. but I am from the Netherlands | 19:18 |
LjL | we will *have* to become like Wuhan unless we take drastic measures (but not so drastic) now | 19:18 |
LjL | but instead we're like... yeah... let's close schools and hmmm maybe let's recommend them to avoid shaking hands and kissing | 19:19 |
Spec | maybe don't touch eyeballs in public | 19:19 |
LjL | which is honestly very annoying. now i can't kiss anyone! oh wait, i never used to in the first place | 19:19 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 18:17 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: 3 new cases in Luxembourg, total confirmed 6 → https://is.gd/NQS2FM | 19:19 |
slash_ | maybe if they show some damn leadership... right now their actions are minimal and they are risking the lives of potentially hundreds of thousands of my fellow citizens | 19:20 |
petersjt014[m] | Just lick them instead, easy fix. | 19:20 |
LjL | yeah Spec you may not be aware that in Europe we mostly aren't required to profess our faith in our government every day at school, somehow, even though that might appear strange :P | 19:21 |
Spec | weird. | 19:21 |
LjL | i know, those euros | 19:21 |
slash_ | yeah we only do that on King's Day when you are legally obligated to feel aroused everytime you see the color orange or the Dutch flag | 19:22 |
Spec | you mean instilling mindless nationalism during youth upbringing isn't of paramount importance in european countries? | 19:22 |
slash_ | other than that not really | 19:22 |
LjL | Spec, well, it is, but only every other 50 years | 19:22 |
Spec | not even at barbeques??? | 19:22 |
slash_ | Spec only when there's beer involved | 19:22 |
petersjt014[m] | spot the 'murican | 19:22 |
zirpu[m] | i have no idea what goes on in the US public schools now. i didn't have kids, so was spared hearing about it. | 19:22 |
LjL | zirpu[m], but presumably *you* went to school? | 19:23 |
zirpu[m] | :wave: | 19:23 |
petersjt014[m] | Mostly more of the same. | 19:23 |
Spec | LjL: every 50 years :P | 19:23 |
Spec | LjL: it's about time to begin again | 19:23 |
zirpu[m] | yes, and i remember doing the stupid pledge of alligence crap. i also know how to write in cursive. my nephew doesn't and that really pisses me off. | 19:23 |
LjL | India has also been going all "stand up during the anthem before movies or you'll be beaten up and/or arrested, even if you're actually paralyzed on a wheelchair and physically can't stand up" lately :\ | 19:23 |
LjL | (* that actually happened) | 19:23 |
LjL | zirpu[m], i kinda forgot how to write in cursive... or how to handwrite at all ;( | 19:24 |
zirpu[m] | war never changes. | 19:24 |
LjL | i've sometimes looked at my old school stuff, i'm like "wow that guy could write goood" | 19:24 |
slash_ | I do not want to act as if we are better though, they have been pushing nationalist nonsense on us for years. For example they tried to pass a law where schools where obligated to sing the national anthem | 19:24 |
Spec | LjL: modi doesnt' seem like a very great person | 19:24 |
LjL | slash_, keyword being "tried", i hope | 19:25 |
slash_ | but tbf our national anthem is pretty dope | 19:25 |
LjL | Spec, not very | 19:25 |
LjL | slash_, hmm it's one of the few european ones i don't actually know | 19:25 |
slash_ | LjL yes, there is no law that requires it | 19:25 |
LjL | i'm not a nationalist, but i have a thing for anthems | 19:25 |
LjL | youtube time | 19:26 |
slash_ | LjL really? it's the oldest national anthem still used! | 19:26 |
slash_ | LjL although the lyrics are quite strange if you do not know the context | 19:26 |
LjL | slash_, i thought that was the Venetian anthem, but maybe if it's no longer a country then it doesn't count :P | 19:26 |
LjL | slash_, the lyrics are quite strange by default because dutch is all weird sounding and generally terrible | 19:26 |
slash_ | LjL yeah not the oldest ever, but the oldest that is still a national anthem | 19:26 |
LjL | well the Venetian anthem is official still, i think, but obviously only at a regional level | 19:27 |
slash_ | LjL as a Dutch person I must agree that Dutch is a really weird language lmao | 19:27 |
LjL | now i can't even sing out loud because i got a sore throat :( it was one of the things i was doing these days to release all the tension! | 19:27 |
Spec | sore throat? *looks for plague doctor* | 19:28 |
LjL | slash_, yes, i've found most Dutch people do, in my admittedly small sample, so if it feels weird from both sides, maybe it is just weird :D | 19:28 |
LjL | Spec, nah i talked for two hours yesterday | 19:28 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit Italy live at 18:26 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Coronavirus, l'appello di Borrelli (Protezione civile): "Vinciamo questa battaglia se cambiamo modo di vivere" - Repubblica Tv - la Repubblica.it → https://is.gd/tRgUdD | 19:29 |
LjL | Spec, also it's always at the left side, related to the left ear (as in i feel pain in the ear too), so it's mostly the thing i've had for years. mysterious, but not covid | 19:29 |
LjL | okay now we're calling it a "battle" | 19:29 |
LjL | let's see when we catch up with "war" | 19:29 |
LjL | (the above sais that) | 19:29 |
LjL | je sais | 19:29 |
slash_ | LjL our languages has so many "exceptions to the rule" that I wonder if the language rules are even a thing | 19:29 |
LjL | slash_, spoilers: they aren't. and i'm kind of an amateur linguist (not a very good one, but enough to tell you languages are all kind of whatever speakers say) | 19:30 |
slash_ | LjL it is why it is very easy to recognize a non native Dutch speaker, because they will always make mistakes | 19:31 |
LjL | slash_, y'all seriously have an anthem where you say you honor the king of... Spain? | 19:33 |
LjL | that's pretty weird y'know | 19:33 |
LjL | slash_, well that's also because all Dutch speak English and will typically switch to English as soon as they realize someone isn't proficient in Dutch, so no one ever really gets to learn it :P | 19:33 |
slash_ | LjL yeah it's the context that you're missing | 19:33 |
LjL | i'm not entirely missing it, i studied some history in school too | 19:34 |
LjL | i am sketchy on the details. but still, it's weird! | 19:34 |
slash_ | LjL he's basically saying "why you suddenly being such a dick Spain? We've always treated you with respect" | 19:34 |
slash_ | so it's meant to be a bit sarcastic | 19:35 |
LjL | also geëerd? how can that even be a word | 19:36 |
slash_ | LjL you can read it like this: "we have always honored the King of Spain (implied: so why does he not honor the Dutch people?)" | 19:36 |
slash_ | LjL "altijd geëerd?" means "always honored" | 19:37 |
LjL | i know, it came with an english translation :P but just saying you've got weird words | 19:37 |
slash_ | oh hell yeah! | 19:37 |
slash_ | we should really make a Dutch 2.0 | 19:38 |
LjL | yeah | 19:38 |
slash_ | the current language is a mess | 19:38 |
LjL | let's call it German | 19:38 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:37 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: New York declares emergency; quarantine hotel collapses in China: About 30 people remained trapped after a five-storey hotel being used for coronavirus quarantine collapsed in the Chinese port city of Quanzhou. → https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 19:38 |
slash_ | LjL you can run, be we have bicycles | 19:39 |
LjL | oh snap | 19:39 |
slash_ | although we're still waiting for the Germans to return a bunch of them after WW2 | 19:39 |
LjL | Spec, also btw... if this was a worrisome sign about Iran, then what about now https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2020/mar/07/it-has-arrived-italian-democratic-party-leader-announces-he-has-coronavirus-video | 19:40 |
LjL | slash_, get in line, Greece is first | 19:40 |
slash_ | we can forgive the bombardment of Rotterdam, but the stealing of bikes? No! | 19:40 |
slash_ | LjL they stole Greek bicycles too? | 19:41 |
LjL | well no they stole other things, but the Greeks need the bikes more because they have no petrol for their cars | 19:41 |
slash_ | an EU wide program to promote bicycle usage would be pretty great tbh | 19:42 |
slash_ | bike lane from Athens to Amsterdam! | 19:43 |
LjL | meh. the bot should have posted a case update, i can see that in my logs, yet it didn't | 19:43 |
slash_ | I like this site for updates: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ | 19:43 |
LjL | 🔶 World: +17 cases (now 105664) 🔶 Westchester County, NY, US: +30 cases (now 57) 🔶 US: +15 cases (now 376) 🔸 Canada: +6 cases (now 60) 🔸 Georgia: +1 cases (now 13) 🔸 Iraq: +6 cases (now 54) 🔸 Norway: +5 cases (now 155) | 19:43 |
slash_ | seems very quick to update | 19:43 |
LjL | slash_, that site is one of several in the list in the topic link, but please have a look at the offloop site, it's run by tinwhiskers here and grabs data from several sources so it's pretty up to date | 19:44 |
LjL | it's also better for analyzing the graphs, despite the UI being crude | 19:44 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: that site is used for updates | 19:44 |
slash_ | ohh thanks | 19:44 |
Spec | oh man i am loving my government | 19:45 |
Spec | But neither the CDC nor the coronavirus task force chaired by Vice President Mike Pence would say who made the decision to forgo the WHO test and instead begin a protracted process of producing an American test, one that got delayed by manufacturing problems, possible lab contamination and logistical delays. | 19:45 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers is a table like on worldometers.info possible? I find it a very nice way to get an overview | 19:45 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: just use their one :-) | 19:46 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers alright :) | 19:47 |
Spec | i'm glad i don't work for CDC anymore :P | 19:47 |
tinwhiskers | I don't plan to compete or duplicate anything. I just wanted to be able to compare time series and couldn't find anything that did it | 19:48 |
LjL | Spec, #classifiedleak | 19:48 |
tinwhiskers | As soon as someone produces another time-series comparison tool I can drop mine | 19:49 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers alright, in any case thanks for your work! | 19:49 |
LjL | slash_, anyway look at the other links too, they kind of all have their own strengths | 19:50 |
LjL | the SCMP has a ton of interesting graphs | 19:50 |
slash_ | yes I look at SCMP too | 19:51 |
slash_ | lot's of good sources in that link! | 19:51 |
BruntLIVE | EaRTH is pulling the reset switch | 19:52 |
LjL | Spec, this entire section is far from reassuring, when combined with italy's mortality data trend https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus_disease_2019#Epidemiology | 19:53 |
slash_ | it's not the end of the world BruntLIVE | 19:53 |
LjL | slash_, if you have more please suggest | 19:53 |
ubLIX | ahem: https://www.technologyreview.com/s/615330/best-worst-coronavirus-dashboards/ | 19:54 |
slash_ | LjL all sources I use are already in that document | 19:56 |
LjL | i guess i did a decent job then | 19:56 |
slash_ | yeah it's quite extensive! | 19:56 |
LjL | ubLIX, and the worst! | 19:56 |
LjL | Spec, "Not all dashboards are created equal, nor do all people have access to the same dashboards (for instance, US sanctions prevent Iranians from accessing the one run by Johns Hopkins University)" ← you're the worst | 19:57 |
BruntLIVE | station in life or money will not help u | 19:58 |
BruntLIVE | CORONA is an equal opportunity virus | 19:58 |
slash_ | a COVID-19 dashboard is never late, nor is it early, it appears precisely when it means to | 19:58 |
tinwhiskers | No, it's not | 19:58 |
tinwhiskers | The virus is definitely ageist and biased against retired folk | 20:00 |
zirpu[m] | also against anyone with pre-existing health conditions, usually old folks. | 20:01 |
slash_ | yeah I've reported the virus' twitter account | 20:01 |
slash_ | #CANCELCOVID19 | 20:01 |
tinwhiskers | Heh | 20:01 |
Spec | haha | 20:01 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +267 cases (now 105931), +5 deaths (now 3567) 🔶 France: +233 cases (now 949), +5 deaths (now 16) 🔶 Egypt: +33 cases (now 48) 🔸 Ireland: +1 cases (now 19) | 20:01 |
zirpu[m] | it's a terrible drama. poorly written. shouldn't be renewed next season. | 20:01 |
slash_ | almost 4k cases today | 20:02 |
tinwhiskers | I'm finding it very compelling. Comedy, drama... | 20:02 |
slash_ | 2 days ago it wasn't even 3k | 20:02 |
slash_ | many countries are also not testing enough, so we probably have way more infected people | 20:03 |
Spec | my country is making seeeeemingly criminally negligent decisions | 20:05 |
ubLIX | US, Spec? | 20:05 |
slash_ | the US is going to be hit hard I think :( | 20:05 |
slash_ | so little testing... | 20:05 |
tinwhiskers | It sure was a circus but I don't think it's actually made much difference anyway | 20:06 |
slash_ | it is impossible for the US to have less daily cases than Germany or France tbh | 20:07 |
tinwhiskers | The lax infection precautions were more of a problem | 20:07 |
BubuIIC1 | %data Germany | 20:07 |
Brainstorm | BubuIIC1: In all areas, Germany, there are 800 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 18 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 19:50:00 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 20:07 |
Spec | slash_: lol, DC! | 20:08 |
Spec | slash_: can test like, 25-50/day | 20:08 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: it's entirely possible at this early stage | 20:08 |
Spec | lol. | 20:08 |
tinwhiskers | Lol | 20:08 |
Spec | laughably appaling | 20:08 |
Spec | appalling, even | 20:08 |
slash_ | there are several clusters in the US that cannot be traced | 20:08 |
Spec | yes, and unrestricted travel | 20:08 |
slash_ | no way that the current numbers reflect reality | 20:08 |
BubuIIC1 | Mmh, 800 is less increase than expected. Maybe numbers aren't all reported because weekend. | 20:09 |
Spec | slash_: absolutely not | 20:09 |
Spec | but we have a very stable genius leader who assured me it's aight | 20:09 |
slash_ | the German numbers are restriced by testing capacity as well | 20:09 |
tinwhiskers | It's well known there is untraced community spread | 20:09 |
Spec | yes | 20:10 |
Spec | is that confirmed for nyc? | 20:10 |
slash_ | Spec but regardless of the stable genius, the US is underperforming MASSIVELY here... | 20:10 |
tinwhiskers | Dunno | 20:10 |
BubuIIC1 | <slash_ "the German numbers are restriced"> Charité does 500 tests/day I've heard. There are many more labs that also do tests. | 20:10 |
Spec | lol | 20:11 |
Spec | > Cuomo said the new patient wasn’t symptomatic when she landed, and she only recently developed respiratory symptoms associated with COVID-19. As a result, he said, he doesn’t believe the woman was contagious when she arrived in New York and took a private car to her home — even though U.S. and world health officials say the disease can spread before symptoms show. | 20:11 |
LjL | BubuIIC1, i'm kind of perplexed by no deaths over 800 cases | 20:11 |
BubuIIC1 | Not sure if that's currently hitting any limits. | 20:11 |
LjL | i mean, good for germany, but it's odd | 20:11 |
slash_ | BubuIIC1 is 500 a day enough? | 20:11 |
Spec | just went through a fuckin airport | 20:11 |
tinwhiskers | Not even close | 20:11 |
Spec | but used a "private car" so it's ok | 20:12 |
BubuIIC1 | slash_: it's one lab. | 20:12 |
LjL | Spec, did i show you the other thing (mostly stemming from another ISS press release, but it includes some extensive age group and other data that i hadn't found before for italy)? | 20:12 |
Spec | LjL: it's up in the ISS? | 20:12 |
Spec | that's a reach | 20:12 |
LjL | Spec, the ISS is so out of the realm of what they can handle, they may as well actually be in orbit | 20:12 |
tinwhiskers | So what's the ISS? | 20:13 |
slash_ | BubuIIC1 alright, so the testing capacity seems ok? But are enough potential cases tested you think? | 20:13 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, Istituto Superiore di Sanità, italy's CDC of sorts | 20:13 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, they released a ridiculous press release which i showed to Spec. it looks like some newspaper headlines. the headline makes Italy sound good, if you actually read it, it sounds bad | 20:14 |
LjL | Spec, bleh... can you load this without an unremovable banner ad popping up on top? https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Flecconotizie.com%2Fcronaca%2Flecco-cronaca%2Fcoronavirus-la-mappa-del-contagio-in-lombardia%2F | 20:15 |
Spec | there's a close button in bottom left | 20:15 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: case tracking was primarily to be able to trace contacts and prevent the spread in the containment phase. That phase is arguably over now for many places so it's more just about reporting now I think. | 20:15 |
Spec | oh yeah and that ugly banner | 20:15 |
Spec | lol | 20:15 |
tinwhiskers | A positive test may be required due to regulations in some countries to get hospital treatment too though | 20:16 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers yeah, I think so too, EU governments at least have been very lax at containment, the virus will become endemic and we must now focus on mitigation and reducing load on the healthcare systems | 20:16 |
slash_ | so that we can handle this long term | 20:17 |
tinwhiskers | Yeah, quite possibly | 20:17 |
slash_ | it is critical that we prevent healthcare systems from becoming overwelmed | 20:18 |
LjL | ubLIX, hmm, at the end of it, i think the only map that's good from that article that isn't a region-specific map is https://www.healthmap.org/covid-19/ which actually shows where cases are *within* countries like Italy, something you usually only see on Italian-language pages | 20:18 |
tinwhiskers | Agreed but a Wuhan style lockdown will not be appreciated by many | 20:18 |
LjL | ubLIX, it's a bit ridiculous they rate pros and cons mostly as "this is all dark and gloomy" :P | 20:18 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: and hasn't really been shown to be effective yet, right? | 20:19 |
LjL | Spec, well, could you read it anyway? | 20:19 |
Spec | LjL: ya | 20:19 |
ubLIX | LjL: yep lol | 20:19 |
LjL | Spec, anything unsettling? | 20:19 |
tinwhiskers | Spec: it seems to have been extremely effective (if you can trust the numbers coming out of China) | 20:19 |
slash_ | the quarantines in China seem to work yes. | 20:20 |
slash_ | But, they will be useless if the rest of the world fails to contain the virus | 20:20 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: well, but like, they haven't returned to normal life | 20:20 |
slash_ | then the virus will simply return, China cannot have half the country on lockdown for years... | 20:20 |
tinwhiskers | Spec: the aim being to slow the progress to allow medical systems to cope. Arguably they have slowed it too much | 20:21 |
LjL | Spec, well i'll tell you what i find unsettling... it says 309 in intensive care, that's over 2612 patients at that time, which makes it 11.8% which is a bit... fucking scary. the other thing is "positive healthcare personnel is 12% of the total" | 20:21 |
tinwhiskers | They now have many hospital beds empty | 20:22 |
LjL | Spec, also, i saw a more up-to-date thing today that basically shows *nearly all* the patients in Lombardy as being hospitalized, with only a very marginal number at home. so that means... most of the ones that were self-isolating at home ended up in hospital anyway eventually? geese | 20:22 |
Spec | :-/ | 20:23 |
Spec | LjL: have you checked in on the pope? | 20:23 |
slash_ | in any case.. it is a good idea to stockpile stuff so you can handle a 1 month+ quarantine at home | 20:23 |
LjL | Spec, oh, well, actually it changed a bit since i last saw it a couple of hours ago. now more patients are at home (but still many more in hospital). scroll down to where it says "L’andamento delle 5 regioni con più contagi" and then look at Lombardy, the legend should be readable: https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/ | 20:23 |
LjL | Spec, the pope actually tested negative :P | 20:24 |
tinwhiskers | That's... Good? | 20:24 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, psychologically for many people, i guess | 20:24 |
slash_ | well this pope is kinda nice, so I suppose | 20:24 |
tinwhiskers | Fair :-) | 20:24 |
MephMaybe | Slash, you say that, but Australia is a shit show at the moment, no one can buy toilet paper because mass hysteria, so people are buying all the toilet paper they can, and people who just want to get one or two packs can't even do that. | 20:24 |
LjL | Spec, you can hover on the bar chart to see the exact numbers | 20:24 |
tinwhiskers | Yeah, "stockpiling" is not good advice to give. | 20:25 |
LjL | Spec, do you see how many more are in intensive care in Lombardy even compared to other regions, nevermind other countries? | 20:25 |
LjL | are we just so good that we can put everyone in ICU just for the hell of it | 20:25 |
slash_ | MephMaybe yes, I understand, but it is better to scare people into a panic when things are still OK tbh | 20:25 |
tinwhiskers | Buying a few extra items each time you go shopping to allow for stock to be managed is probably a better approach. | 20:26 |
tinwhiskers | There's no need to panic buy | 20:26 |
slash_ | MephMaybe look at Sweden, a few years ago their government spread pamphlets promoting prepping for disaster and war, in a looming emergency it is better to "panic" early | 20:27 |
LjL | MephMaybe, slash_: this has happened repeatedly in other countries (Japan, Italy, etc) before. each of those countries, and then now Australia, had an opportunity to learn from that, and pass emergency laws requiring limited amounts of purchase of essential good per person/households. more authoritarian countries did that. we didn't. is it really good to be "free" in these case? | 20:27 |
Spec | slash_: 1month+ in quarantine is a loooong time | 20:27 |
Spec | LjL: you mean to say it was announced he tested negatively | 20:27 |
LjL | Spec, lol, okay, yes, that | 20:27 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: that's not panic. That's being prepared | 20:27 |
slash_ | Spec: yes it is, but China has extended quarantine to 28 days | 20:27 |
LjL | Spec, if he's positive chances are he'll die soon though, he's already missing half a lung | 20:27 |
MephMaybe | Slash: Not really..? If i walked down to my local super market if to get say, pasta, rice, or toilet paper if i run out today, i wouldn't be able to. At all. Even if i travelled cross state. It's really that bad. Media is making covid way more dangerous then it actually is. | 20:29 |
Spec | slash_: i need to catalog all of my foods and see how long we can last | 20:29 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers being prepared means doing it before any form of disaster, panic is when the disaster is already occuring and people are trying to "prep" en masse at the same time | 20:29 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: yes, and there still plenty of time to do that now without panic buying. | 20:29 |
Spec | ^ | 20:29 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers that is true | 20:29 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers now is a good time to prep | 20:29 |
Spec | should i go to costco and buy all the toilet paper, then? | 20:29 |
Spec | tbf, a good time to prep was in january | 20:30 |
Spec | or really just live life prepared :D | 20:30 |
slash_ | Spec no you should go to Costco AND wallmart and buy all of the toiletpaper! | 20:30 |
Spec | i'm only partially prepared, it's easier to speak than do | 20:30 |
slash_ | toiletpaper will be the post-corona currency guys | 20:31 |
ubLIX | tinwhiskers: there might still be plenty of time if everyone was a rational automaton | 20:31 |
slash_ | but really, people seem to severely overestimate how much toiletpaper they need lol | 20:31 |
MephMaybe | Already is man. I've literally seen people selling singular rolls of toilet paper for $5-10AUD. | 20:31 |
tinwhiskers | ubLIX: well that's why we don't want people giving advice to stockpile and make matters worse | 20:32 |
slash_ | you won't need to shit if you don't have food | 20:32 |
ubLIX | well there's regimes: early january - buy two of everything during your weekly shop; and now: rationing | 20:32 |
mefistofeles | %data Chile | 20:32 |
Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Chile, there are 5 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 20:17:00 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Chile for time series data. | 20:32 |
mefistofeles | %data Colombia | 20:32 |
Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Colombia, there are 1 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 01:43:02 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Colombia for time series data. | 20:32 |
tinwhiskers | ubLIX: it's not at that stage in most places yet | 20:33 |
tinwhiskers | Sure, some | 20:33 |
mefistofeles | so underdiagnosed in those two, for sure | 20:33 |
MephMaybe | Mefistofeles: Hey! We sorta have the same name. Neat. | 20:33 |
mefistofeles | MephMaybe: heh, hey | 20:34 |
tinwhiskers | Most places if you still just go ahead and buy twice the normal amount you'll be prepared by the time the SHTF | 20:34 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: what if instead i buy all the toilet paper? | 20:34 |
Spec | nothing else, really. just toilet paper. | 20:35 |
tinwhiskers | :-/ | 20:35 |
LjL | can't you people just use bidets like civilized humans? | 20:35 |
tinwhiskers | Heh | 20:35 |
ubLIX | this toilet paper thing seems like a fascinating experiment in psychological contagion | 20:35 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers I have a good supply, but it's what I am doing, just go to the supermarket daily and buy 2-3 days worth of food, people here will look at you funny if you buy 20 cans of beans at once.. | 20:35 |
Spec | slash_: who gives a fuck? | 20:35 |
slash_ | Spec well maybe my neighbors, I do not want anyone to know that I have a fuckload of food when SHTF | 20:36 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: dude, I don't even have a flush toilet, let alone a bidet! | 20:36 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: :D | 20:36 |
LjL | ! | 20:36 |
tinwhiskers | The leaves here are kinda shiny and slippery though so I really want toilet paper | 20:36 |
LjL | aww | 20:36 |
slash_ | Spec in times of crises it is important to look like a regular person imho | 20:36 |
Spec | slash_: what if i never look like a regular person D: | 20:37 |
ubLIX | slash_: send gps coordinates of food stash | 20:37 |
slash_ | Spec buy guns! | 20:37 |
Spec | slash_: i don't have any guns! | 20:37 |
Spec | slash_: it's okay, i got some beans. | 20:38 |
tinwhiskers | The local governor had just declared an island that will be used for quarantining the sick here. It's just an island covered in bush. No buildings, no facilities, no water. Wtff. | 20:38 |
tinwhiskers | *has | 20:38 |
Spec | slash_: will my food supply be at risk, or my P100 filters? | 20:38 |
LjL | i don't condone hoarding personally. stocking, sure. yeah, even stocking if everybody does it all at the same time will be hard on supplies, but manageable. theoretically it would be better if everyone were a prepper i guess but they just aren't, it's not everybody's hobby. still, bottom line: buy your medicines because you may have shortages later, buy some canned food, buy whatever you think is right... but not in amounts that will take it away from others | 20:38 |
Spec | this conflicts with: be prepared for a 30 day isolated quarantine :P | 20:39 |
slash_ | Spec possible both.. there's no way to tell how bad things will get atm | 20:39 |
tinwhiskers | No, it doesn't! | 20:39 |
Spec | that's 1lb of food per person per day right? so 120lbs of food for me? | 20:39 |
tinwhiskers | Lol | 20:39 |
LjL | in a 30-day isolated quarantine you are provided with necessities unless you are in a country that you probably should have fled from before | 20:39 |
slash_ | Spec but maybe don't advertise your stack of 9000 P100 masks I suppose | 20:39 |
Spec | slash_: i wish i had that many :P | 20:40 |
Spec | LjL: if your government is competent | 20:40 |
Spec | LjL: i've seen how FEMA does things. | 20:40 |
slash_ | Spec how many do have exactly? and what is your address? | 20:40 |
Spec | slash_: :D | 20:40 |
slash_ | Spec asking for a friend | 20:40 |
Spec | slash_: i have enough to leave my house a couple times to get supplies during extended quarantine, and no more :( | 20:40 |
Spec | slash_: and i have them for spraying polyurethanes / sanding lead paint/etc :P | 20:41 |
LjL | Spec, still, while i'm all for being selfish most of the time, it doesn't see very moral to me to leave the shelf where hand sanitizer is empty (and then, often, either resell it, or use it gratuitously when you are at home and could just wash your hands instead) | 20:41 |
Spec | LjL: yes | 20:41 |
Spec | i'm more concerned about food than hand sanitizer, lol | 20:41 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +40 cases (now 105971) 🔶 US: +19 cases (now 395) 🔶 Greece: +20 cases (now 66) 🔸 Norway: +1 cases (now 156) | 20:41 |
slash_ | Spec in case things get really bad.. don't let your neighbors see that you have them | 20:41 |
ubLIX | LjL: i'm not convinced even the UK will manage "provision of necessities" during crunch times | 20:42 |
slash_ | Spec survival instinct is strong in humans | 20:42 |
Spec | slash_: strong in me :D | 20:42 |
Spec | just put up CONTAMINATED sign on doors, sorted | 20:42 |
ubLIX | LjL: our government has made statements such as "we won't let anyone lose out as a result of epidemic and mitigations", but this just seems too fanciful to me | 20:43 |
slash_ | Spec yes, but people who are not prepared... they can go crazy | 20:43 |
slash_ | Spec it is very important to try to fit in with the rest when things go really bad, you really do not want to stand out | 20:45 |
ubLIX | slash_: there is a counter argument: when things go apocalypse pear-shaped, your efforts and success with revival of community constitute your best chances | 20:46 |
slash_ | I like this video to explain it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Wz7fC7tOY "How to be a gray man" | 20:47 |
slash_ | ubLIX yes, you should show your skills and usefullness to your community | 20:48 |
ubLIX | right, but you have to join/form a community first | 20:48 |
slash_ | ubLIX but do not just give away the fact that you have like 6 months of food stored for no good reason | 20:48 |
ubLIX | agreed | 20:48 |
slash_ | communities already exist, neighborhoods will band together | 20:49 |
slash_ | did you see the videos from Wuhan? where whole appartment buildings designate people to gather groceries and supplies? | 20:49 |
slash_ | it's pretty amazin | 20:50 |
ubLIX | read about that | 20:50 |
aradesh | do we get a lot more flus and cold viruses in general now days that we live in a globalised world? | 20:51 |
Spec | i do not have 6 months of food :P | 20:51 |
aradesh | i can't imagine that if you lived in a farming village where people didn't travel much, that you'd get much exposure to new colds on a regular basis | 20:51 |
slash_ | it is important to try to help/assist people in your neighborhood | 20:52 |
slash_ | try to become part of the community when shtf | 20:52 |
slash_ | don't lock yourself in your house with 6months of food when everyone is working together | 20:53 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: I'm not sure that helps much when a disease is in play. Better to stick to yourself and leave assistance up to the trained professionals for the most part. | 20:55 |
aradesh | i wonder how they test for coronavirus | 20:55 |
tinwhiskers | Just do what the officials tell you to do. | 20:55 |
ubLIX | even in America, tinwhiskers? | 20:56 |
tinwhiskers | aradesh: currently using PCR, but there are antibody tests due soon | 20:56 |
tinwhiskers | Antibody tests are a quick field test that changes color pretty much immediately | 20:56 |
ubLIX | i joke. the thrust of your point is right | 20:56 |
LjL | KIND OF BREAKING: draft decree about to be approved by the Italian government to make all of Lombardy (and some adjacent provinces) a quarantine area, with entry and exit forbidden | 20:57 |
aradesh | PCR test - they duplicate it to be on a larger scale, and then they can test it with more traditional methods like chemical properties? | 20:58 |
LjL | who was the other Lombard here | 20:58 |
LjL | m-something | 20:58 |
aradesh | %covid uk | 20:59 |
tinwhiskers | aradesh: pcr to multiply the target dna and then gel electrophoresis or similar to test of it was multiplied (i.e. if it was present) | 20:59 |
Brainstorm | aradesh: In all areas, UK, there are 206 cases, 2 deaths (1.0% of cases), 18 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 18:43:05 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=UK for time series data. | 20:59 |
Brainstorm | aradesh: Mortality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.3% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 9.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 20:59 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers if we face quarantines such as in Wuhan it might be worth it to offer the service of gathering supplies/groceries though.. if you have the protective gear you can make yourself a very valued person in your local community | 20:59 |
contingo | Lombardy includes Milan, which includes LjL! | 20:59 |
LjL | contingo, i know! | 20:59 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:57 UTC: VP Pence says 21 coronavirus cases on California Grand Princess cruise ship: Vice President Mike Pence said Friday 21 people aboard the Grand Princess cruise ship idled off the coast of California have tested positive for COVID-19. → https://is.gd/X4PWjV | 20:59 |
contingo | OK just in case you hadn't realized. LjL what province is your other place in? | 21:00 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: yes, you might be able to volunteer to be one of said officials, but don't wing it | 21:00 |
LjL | contingo, the province is Brescia, but sadly that's still Lombardy | 21:00 |
LjL | ALMOST Trentino but not quite | 21:00 |
tinwhiskers | We need people who have been trained a little or they may do more harm than good when "assisting". | 21:00 |
LjL | contingo, Lombardy is about 11 million people btw | 21:00 |
contingo | well I guess at least you can still to-and-fro if for some reason that's desirable | 21:00 |
LjL | one sixth of the country | 21:01 |
LjL | contingo, well i don't know what they'll actually declare, maybe we won't be able to leave provinces even... but i don't know if they have enough police force for that | 21:01 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: I mean, I don't want you trying to help me if you don't really know what you're doing and risk giving me the disease instead of preventing spread. | 21:02 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers I mean it's basically just being a delivery person, but people will appreciate it as they do not need to put themselves at risk | 21:02 |
tinwhiskers | I'd rather that be organised centrally | 21:03 |
slash_ | yes agreed | 21:03 |
tinwhiskers | This is not expected to be so dire that all our systems collapse. If it were then winging it might be all you can do | 21:03 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers I did not mean a full collapse, just when you face a severe quarantine such as in Wuhan | 21:05 |
tinwhiskers | I still don't think you want potentially infected volunteers running around in a situation like wuhan either | 21:05 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers people assign a person per building to gather supplies, so that the vast majority is not at risk for infection | 21:06 |
tinwhiskers | The authorities are managing fine there without well-meaning volunteers screwing things up | 21:06 |
contingo | if this gets to a point where we no longer can get groceries delivered than my local ghetto community will more likely descend into open gang warfare than into some kind of shopping collective | 21:06 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers no, but it is better to have one person, instead of hundreds running around | 21:06 |
tinwhiskers | Yes, but in an organised manner, not just people deciding to do it their own way | 21:07 |
tinwhiskers | That's not how they do it in wuhan as far as my understanding goes | 21:07 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers it seemed quite organised yes | 21:07 |
contingo | LjL, reading | 21:08 |
tinwhiskers | People are allowed out once every week to get groceries for their own household. | 21:08 |
tinwhiskers | (the once per week thing changes a bit depending where you hear it) | 21:08 |
tinwhiskers | But they don't have a single person from the building doing deliveries. That seems like a good way to infect everyone | 21:08 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers but that is what they are doing though | 21:09 |
tinwhiskers | That's not what I've heard | 21:10 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers the people who get the groceries are in fully covered suits, they cannot transmit if they are infected | 21:10 |
contingo | LjL out of what's there what are the most pressing papers for me to form a view on? | 21:10 |
tinwhiskers | I heard it was per household, not per building | 21:11 |
slash_ | they are like literally in full body suits and stuff | 21:11 |
tinwhiskers | And the video I've seen does not show people fully protected like that | 21:11 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers yes by the governments orders, but this was community organized, not mandated | 21:11 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers yeah not everyone does it like that of course, at it is not obligatory | 21:12 |
tinwhiskers | That's exactly what I'm saying we shouldn't do. People might mean well but may be causing problems | 21:12 |
tinwhiskers | Do what the authorities tell you to do | 21:12 |
slash_ | not sure if I agree... | 21:13 |
slash_ | my government is doing a terrible job | 21:13 |
tinwhiskers | Well that's true (assuming US) | 21:13 |
slash_ | if I get any symptom I am staying at home, period | 21:13 |
adventurer | Where are you slash_ ? | 21:14 |
slash_ | I don't care if my doctor says it is not needed | 21:14 |
tinwhiskers | Right. I think that's what the recommended advice is | 21:14 |
slash_ | adventurer Netherlands | 21:14 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers only for one province lol, for the rest only if you have "severe symptoms"... sigh | 21:14 |
adventurer | Korea is good how they test anyone free in drive though....it's like if someone thinks they have it and a too poor for a doctor then they could get tested that's good | 21:15 |
tinwhiskers | What you shouldn't be doing is coming to with your own plan to assist that gets in the way of the official plans and may do more harm than good because frankly you are not trained | 21:15 |
adventurer | South Korea | 21:15 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers I just look at where containment is succesful... | 21:16 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers my government's actions aren't really working so far | 21:17 |
tinwhiskers | Yes, well organised centrally, not vigilantes | 21:17 |
slash_ | then what do you do when there is no proper centrally organised response? | 21:18 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: what country are you in? | 21:18 |
slash_ | Netherlands | 21:18 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:16 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York declares emergency; quarantine hotel collapses in China → https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 21:18 |
slash_ | my government is only acting reactive | 21:19 |
slash_ | in fact they said last month that the chances that the coronavirus would appear in the Netherlands was almost 0% | 21:20 |
slash_ | I mean really? | 21:21 |
tinwhiskers | Heh | 21:23 |
Spec | "only serious cases should be screened" mentality is great | 21:23 |
Spec | oh good, new york declared emergency | 21:23 |
tinwhiskers | Yeah, that's pretty crazy | 21:23 |
slash_ | no it's worse | 21:23 |
slash_ | they said: only serious cases that have DIRECT LINK with areas with corona virus should be screened | 21:24 |
Spec | yeah | 21:24 |
slash_ | and then last sunday, they relaxed testing requirements so that people with just the symptoms could get tested | 21:25 |
slash_ | and then the confirmed cases EXPLODED | 21:25 |
slash_ | who could ever have thought? | 21:25 |
tinwhiskers | Well, they missed the opportunity to do any containment with that policy. Silly. Hopefully they will implement some sort of lockdown to slow the spread and allow emergency services to cope. | 21:25 |
tinwhiskers | If they don't do that then a lot of people will die unnecessarily | 21:25 |
slash_ | we failed containment as soon as we started.. | 21:26 |
tinwhiskers | Yeah, but most places did | 21:26 |
slash_ | a lot of people will die :( | 21:26 |
tinwhiskers | Yes, but that can be still be minimised | 21:27 |
slash_ | I hope so man... | 21:27 |
tinwhiskers | If you compare the best and worse case scenario. Total lockdown with government supplied food (not say that's practical) and doing nothing the difference in deaths would be enormous. The reality will hopefully lie somewhere in the middle and not at the "do nothing" end. | 21:28 |
slash_ | they said that when IC beds run out they will place sever patients with the virus in senior care facilities... I mean really?? You're gonna place infected people IN THE SAME PLACE as the people who are most vulnerable??? | 21:29 |
tinwhiskers | Heh | 21:29 |
tinwhiskers | Maybe they'll move those people out | 21:30 |
slash_ | yeah there was A LOT of criticism from parliament on this | 21:30 |
Spec | it's weird | 21:30 |
Spec | to see china's reaction and just like | 21:30 |
slash_ | so hopefully they wont do that | 21:30 |
Spec | carry on mates | 21:30 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers they said they won't, it's a "low risk" or something | 21:31 |
tinwhiskers | Dickheads | 21:31 |
Spec | ya'll're making me wanna go buy toilet paper in obscene quantities | 21:32 |
Spec | can you imagine this but instead of sars, severe liquid shits | 21:32 |
tinwhiskers | Well, we'll learn a lot of things that should not be done from this whole thing, and then promptly forget it for the next one | 21:32 |
adventurer | https://7news.com.au/travel/coronavirus/epping-high-school-to-re-open-on-monday-after-coronavirus-scare-c-734305?fbclid=IwAR0tW2eJhCOtvS_1qEqzYgqnRrCKeW1-kxG2jS6GkacggLdZpzrPESrE28w | 21:32 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: yes. | 21:32 |
LjL | contingo, Spec: oh shit, the decree actually says movement in and out of Lombardy AS WELL AS INSIDE THE TERRITORY (so presumably between provinces? municipalities? unclear to me for now) will be barred | 21:33 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: that's good news | 21:33 |
Spec | LjL: excellent | 21:33 |
LjL | well i'm glad you're all happy | 21:33 |
LjL | i feel a bit different about it | 21:33 |
Spec | LjL: so you are isolated now? | 21:34 |
tinwhiskers | That's what needs doing though | 21:34 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers which is stupid, we've been here before.. there are studies from the Spanish Flu that conclude: quarantine fast, quarantine early, isolate infected from the healthy and you will save a lot of lives | 21:34 |
slash_ | it's not rocket science | 21:34 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: yeah. Politicians. | 21:34 |
LjL | Spec, my mother's relatives don't live technically *in* Milan. if they stop movement between municipalities... this won't be good for my mom | 21:34 |
Spec | slash_: and i guess the rocket science part is: wide spread testing is necessary to quarantine effectively | 21:34 |
Spec | LjL: :( | 21:34 |
LjL | Spec, and neither does my sister's boyfriend methinks | 21:34 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +14 cases (now 105985), +2 recoveries (now 58441) 🔶 King County, WA, US: +12 cases (now 71), +3 deaths (now 15) 🔸 Austria: +2 cases (now 81) 🔸 Bahrain: +2 recoveries (now 6) 🔸 UK: +3 cases (now 209) 🔸 US: +6 cases (now 401) 🔸 Fairfield County, CT, US: +1 cases (now 2) 🔸 Maricopa County, AZ, US: +1 cases (now 3), +1 recoveries (now 1) 🔸 Snohomish County, WA, US: +8 cases (now 27) 🔸 Washington C | 21:35 |
Spec | maricopa :( | 21:35 |
tinwhiskers | Dang, these consolidated reports look much more scary | 21:35 |
adventurer | https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/coronavirus-china-quarantine-hotel-collapse-traps-70/news-story/d802347f283b32fbaa4bec12f83e6f5a | 21:35 |
Spec | LjL: i've concluded my coworker who went on that cruise trip is an idiot | 21:36 |
slash_ | it's.. just so infuriating, we have 188 cases, and a few hundred contacts. Just freaking isolate them? | 21:36 |
slash_ | it's annoying yes, but are we going to wait until we have 1 million people infected? | 21:37 |
tinwhiskers | I think that horse has bolted now :-( | 21:37 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 20:28 UTC: Coronavirus: Family pay tribute to 'wonderful great-grandad': The family of a man who died with coronavirus say they cannot arrange his funeral because they are self-isolating. → https://is.gd/QKvZ3q | 21:37 |
Spec | slash_: surely we will | 21:38 |
Spec | i mean, we're certainly going to wait in america | 21:38 |
slash_ | WE HAVE 700 MILLION PEOPLE HERE | 21:38 |
mefistofeles | %data US | 21:38 |
Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, US, there are 401 cases, 17 deaths (4.2% of cases), 15 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 21:30:00 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 21:38 |
mefistofeles | %data Germany | 21:38 |
Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Germany, there are 800 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 18 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 21:30:00 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 21:38 |
slash_ | WHY is quaranting a few thousand people so hard? | 21:38 |
tinwhiskers | It boggles the mind to hear the testing policies many countries have put in place. | 21:39 |
tinwhiskers | I guess it's about the money | 21:39 |
Spec | "If we have thousands or hundreds of thousands of people that get better, just by, you know, sitting around and even going to work, some of them go to work, but they get better, and then when you do have a death, like you've had in the state of Washington, like you had one in California, I believe you had one in New York." | 21:39 |
slash_ | the testing policies do not make sense idd tinwhiskers | 21:40 |
Spec | "So I think that that number is very high. I think the number, personally, I would say the number is way under 1%." | 21:40 |
Spec | <3 | 21:40 |
slash_ | it is cheap to test at the start, but many countries are very critical as to who they want to test | 21:40 |
tinwhiskers | Spec: wtf? | 21:40 |
mefistofeles | yeah, most countries just cannot afford it | 21:40 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: that's my prez yo | 21:40 |
tinwhiskers | Lol | 21:41 |
LjL | Spec, this draft decree is written by morons (surprise), it doesn't say in any way WHERE movement will be restricted. like, can't i live Milan? the province of Milan? what? | 21:41 |
slash_ | mefistofeles in Europe? | 21:41 |
tinwhiskers | Very coherent | 21:41 |
mefistofeles | slash_: I am, yes | 21:41 |
slash_ | mefistofeles but testing a few thousand extra people now prevents testing hundreds of thousands later.. | 21:41 |
LjL | Spec, anyway, tell me what actions we should take now, if any, because we are kinda all going panic mode, except my dad who's just watching pre-recorded yet studio-audience-free TV | 21:42 |
tinwhiskers | Omg, politicians ignoring advice from experts are going to kill millions of people | 21:42 |
Spec | LjL: follow your dad's path | 21:42 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: yes. | 21:42 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: and they won't be held accountable | 21:42 |
Spec | and his base will love him for it. | 21:42 |
Spec | LjL: chill out, stay at home, play games. how much food do you guys have on hand? | 21:43 |
LjL | Spec, can i at least hope my Amazon and eBay deliveries due for monday/tuesday won't be held? | 21:43 |
Spec | you can hope :P | 21:43 |
tinwhiskers | Oh ohhh | 21:43 |
LjL | Spec, not enough to go through a 30-day quarantine | 21:43 |
Spec | LjL: 1 week? | 21:43 |
LjL | Spec, probably, perhaps | 21:43 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: but you can still go to the shops? | 21:43 |
LjL | Spec, we have very little non-perishable food, i think | 21:43 |
Spec | i would go shopping and follow cleaning rituals upon return | 21:44 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, i sure hope so, but will we find anything there? | 21:44 |
tinwhiskers | Mmm | 21:44 |
Spec | and probably ration food.... | 21:44 |
slash_ | LjL buy cans of soup, vegetables and meat if you can | 21:44 |
slash_ | LjL usually very cheap too | 21:44 |
tinwhiskers | I imagine there will have to be rations as well | 21:44 |
Spec | I would go with bulk rice personally | 21:44 |
Spec | and beans :D | 21:44 |
tinwhiskers | And dried noodles | 21:44 |
slash_ | Spec look out for rice bugs | 21:45 |
Spec | rice bugs? | 21:45 |
slash_ | Spec or whatever they're called | 21:45 |
Spec | rice lice? | 21:45 |
tinwhiskers | One of my favs here is breakfast crackers with peanut butter and jam on. They lasts for months | 21:45 |
slash_ | Spec yeah maybe, but rice often contains eggs for some bugs, when they hatch you're gonna have bad time | 21:46 |
tinwhiskers | Rice will last for many months | 21:46 |
slash_ | Spec freezing the rice for a while kills them thouh | 21:46 |
Spec | and extra protein | 21:47 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:43 UTC: (news): Amtrak suspends nonstop Acela service between DC and New York as demand weakens amid coronavirus → https://is.gd/4MjeHI | 21:47 |
Spec | lool | 21:47 |
slash_ | rice weevils are the name apparently | 21:47 |
Spec | community to community in NYC and amtrak suspends service because of economics | 21:47 |
tinwhiskers | Buy multiple smaller bags of rice if you're worried. | 21:47 |
LjL | Spec, Amtrak takes advantage of every opportunity to suppress service don't they | 21:47 |
Spec | slash_: oh yeah, weevils. you'll get more in flour | 21:47 |
tinwhiskers | I have a hoard of rice and I've never seen any bugs | 21:47 |
Spec | ^ | 21:47 |
contingo | hopefully not all movement | 21:48 |
slash_ | Spec yeah flour too, but you can freeze that as well | 21:48 |
Spec | i've had weevils in my bulk flour before | 21:48 |
Spec | i used to buy flour in BulkBulk because mywife baked a lot of bread | 21:48 |
Spec | like 50lb bags | 21:48 |
tinwhiskers | We do have weevils in our flour. No big deal | 21:48 |
Spec | yeap | 21:48 |
Spec | shit gets baked :D | 21:48 |
contingo | "banning movement" has a certain air of finality to it | 21:48 |
Spec | contingo: yeah, when do you unban movement | 21:48 |
slash_ | the weevils can get everywhere though | 21:48 |
slash_ | better to prevent | 21:48 |
tinwhiskers | That's pretty much impossible | 21:49 |
slash_ | little bastards | 21:49 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers if you freeze rice/flour a week or two it kills the eggs | 21:49 |
tinwhiskers | Multiple bags is your best chance of delaying that but we're only talking about a month or two so it's really not a big deal | 21:49 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: ah. Yeah. Not an option for me | 21:49 |
contingo | I have no flour weevil problem, pantry moths were an issue last summer | 21:50 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers alternatively store the bags in a container | 21:50 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers to prevent spread at least | 21:51 |
tinwhiskers | I never had flour weevil problems back home but here in the tropics they go mad | 21:51 |
contingo | I imagine you might have a lot of ants? | 21:51 |
contingo | it's the ants that get to my supplies first when I'm roughing it in the tropics | 21:51 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers yeah the climate matters a lot, but here in the Netherlands it can get hot and moist in summer which can make the devils spawn | 21:52 |
contingo | ants or bears | 21:52 |
tinwhiskers | Yeah, but they are not too bad in this house for some reason. Maybe the fact it's a pole house. | 21:52 |
slash_ | yeah maybe less moist? | 21:53 |
tinwhiskers | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 21:54 |
slash_ | but shit I live in a former swamp | 21:54 |
contingo | well that helps. But I've stayed in many infested stilt or pole houses in tropical SE Asia | 21:54 |
contingo | you probably run a tight ship | 21:54 |
tinwhiskers | contingo: yeah. I've seen ants in pole houses too. I certainly don't run a tight ship. I don't know why they are not a problem here | 21:55 |
tinwhiskers | They were madness while I was building | 21:55 |
Spec | i'm gonna CROSS POST | 21:55 |
contingo | hmm | 21:55 |
Spec | https://twitter.com/LizSpecht/status/1236095180459003909 | 21:56 |
slash_ | Spec read that one earlier, good post | 21:56 |
mefistofeles | those numbers are wrong | 21:57 |
Spec | "As a critical care specialist in SoCal I have been running these numbers too and am worried about the implications. OTOH it looks like exponential growth slowed or halted in China South Korea and Japan with aggressive response which gives me hope. Next 4 weeks critical." | 21:58 |
slash_ | well they are an assumption | 21:58 |
contingo | when I encountered my first Malaysian Giant Ant, I thought it was a rodent | 21:58 |
slash_ | but the point is still true | 21:58 |
tinwhiskers | Diseases don't spread at exponential rates though | 21:58 |
mefistofeles | sure, but the assumption ofexponential growth for ever, up to may or whatever, is not a good assumption | 21:58 |
mefistofeles | so those numbers are not conservative at all, as she claims, but quite the opposite | 21:59 |
slash_ | true | 21:59 |
slash_ | but | 21:59 |
slash_ | in any case, the point is that healthcare systems can easily be overwhelmed due to this virus | 21:59 |
slash_ | if not contained | 22:00 |
tinwhiskers | Yes, and managed with good quarantine procedures | 22:00 |
tinwhiskers | Yeah | 22:00 |
tinwhiskers | They will certainly be overwhelmed without some enforced containment | 22:01 |
slash_ | yes, it is the biggest issue in this pandemic | 22:01 |
aradesh | seems to be confirmed coronavirus cases now in both the county i live in, and the county i work on | 22:01 |
slash_ | mortality rate for the disease can go UP when there are too many to treat | 22:01 |
mefistofeles | containing it is not an option | 22:01 |
aradesh | and the county i travel through on my way to work :P | 22:01 |
mefistofeles | mitigating it is, as the WHO has said | 22:01 |
tinwhiskers | mefistofeles: yeah, ok. Mitigation rather | 22:02 |
aradesh | china seems to have succeeded in stopping it spreading now? | 22:02 |
mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: yes, just to be clear on the words :) and use the same words they use | 22:02 |
slash_ | mefistofeles when did the WHO say this? Last time I heard they still considered containment possible | 22:02 |
tinwhiskers | mefistofeles: lockdown! | 22:02 |
slash_ | mefistofeles althouh I also do not think containment is feasible at this point due to too many nations failing. | 22:03 |
mefistofeles | https://www.esicm.org/covid-19-update-from-our-colleagues-in-northern-italy/ this is a nice one, I guess | 22:03 |
aradesh | the UK currently has about as many cases of covid19 as italy did 2 weeks ago | 22:03 |
slash_ | there is good news however | 22:06 |
slash_ | we will never have 1 billion confirmed cases :) | 22:06 |
slash_ | because we cannot test 1 billion people | 22:06 |
LjL | https://static.gedidigital.it/repubblica/pdf/2020/cronaca/bozza.pdf is the draft law quarantining Lombardy if anyone else here reads Italian or lives here | 22:06 |
slash_ | LjL can you provide a summary? | 22:08 |
mefistofeles | slash_: yeah, that's common, as with flu, we don't really tested the whole population for it, but we basically assume/know everyone has catched it at some point | 22:08 |
mefistofeles | s/catched/caught | 22:09 |
Brainstorm | mefistofeles meant to say: slash_: yeah, that's common, as with flu, we don't really tested the whole population for it, but we basically assume/know everyone has caught it at some point | 22:09 |
LjL | slash_, i can translate the points that are most salient to me, yeah | 22:09 |
LjL | Art. 1 | 22:10 |
LjL | In order to counter and contain the spread of the COVID-19 virus in the Lombardy region and in the provinces of Modena, Parma, Piacenza, Reggio nell'Emilia, Rimini, Pesaro and Urbino, Venice, Padua, Treviso, Asti and Alessandria the following meaasures are adopted: | 22:10 |
LjL | a) absolutely avoid any movement into and out of the territories referred to in this article, as well as within the same territories referred to in this article, except for movements motivated by non-deferrable work needs or emergency situations; | 22:10 |
LjL | ... then there's a lot of things about restricting work activities | 22:10 |
LjL | i reckon these areas probably contain... 12 to 15 million people | 22:11 |
LjL | since it's a lot more than just Lombardy after all | 22:11 |
slash_ | LjL I just checked Dutch news, and they say that Italy is locking down Lombardy and 11 other regions, so that seems to be correct | 22:11 |
LjL | well the Guardian above said the same | 22:11 |
LjL | it is not yet law, but if papers say so, i guess it will be! ;( | 22:11 |
Spec | lol -> https://www.usnews.com/news/world-report/articles/2020-03-06/russia-closes-border-with-iran-as-coronavirus-spread-worsens | 22:12 |
Spec | pretty sure we don't need russia misinfo campaign to doubt competency of US leadership | 22:12 |
slash_ | LjL I applaud Italy for taking these drastic measures tbh | 22:12 |
slash_ | LjL I really hope that the whole EU will provide financial relief to the worst affected areas.. | 22:13 |
LjL | slash_, isn't it kinda late and gratuitous now? it's already multiplying at exponential rates in the regions *outside* of the aforementioned areas | 22:13 |
LjL | slash_, the EU has basically said fuck all about the whole thing for now, as far as i'm aware | 22:13 |
slash_ | LjL if you ask me, we should be closing down whole cities NOW in the Netherlands while the numbers are still low... | 22:14 |
slash_ | LjL yes.. maybe too late :S | 22:14 |
tinwhiskers | LjL ugly translation: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Foffloop.net%2Fcovid19h%2Fdecree.html | 22:14 |
slash_ | LjL but fuck, we are all in this together now, all EU nations should be encouraged to take DRASTIC measures RIGHT NOW | 22:15 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, slightly continuous, but it's something :P | 22:15 |
Spec | slash_: i agree that would be a good way to defray burden on system | 22:15 |
LjL | slash_, i hope it won't be a good excuse to go back to the middle ages where we can't leave cities and towns without permits... forever, instead | 22:15 |
pwr22 | Just been in a supermarket and all the pasta is gone | 22:15 |
pwr22 | Never seen that before | 22:15 |
tinwhiskers | heh. The formatting didn't come over for some reason. Boy that's hard to read | 22:15 |
Spec | pwr22: where ya at? | 22:16 |
LjL | joatds[m], ping | 22:16 |
pwr22 | Bristol, UK | 22:16 |
slash_ | LjL this disease spreads because we have open borders, the whole of the EU has benefited from this. | 22:17 |
LjL | slash_, we don't have open borders with China and neither does the US yet we got where we are... so it kinda depends on the definition of "open" | 22:17 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:14 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York declares emergency; Italy to lock down Milan area → https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 22:17 |
LjL | now we're going from "don't even have to show your ID card" to "won't be able to leave single towns" | 22:18 |
slash_ | LjL it is our duty as EU nations to also carry responsibiliy for all the negative consequences | 22:18 |
LjL | it may be needed, but it's pretty damned serious | 22:18 |
slash_ | LjL no, I meant within the EU | 22:18 |
LjL | slash_, yes, well, but it isn't even fully true. Germany is going exponential mainly because of their *own* clusters, that they got from links to China, not due to Italy | 22:19 |
slash_ | LjL it is not Italy's fault that they where hit first | 22:19 |
LjL | Spec, i posted this tweet https://twitter.com/BrainstormBot/status/1236397021210259457 but it suspiciously fails to show me any analytics for it. i assume you can see it? | 22:20 |
slash_ | LjL true, there are many "patient zero" cases within the EU | 22:20 |
Spec | LjL: i can see it | 22:21 |
tinwhiskers | This translation retains *some* of the formatting and is a bit easier to read | 22:23 |
tinwhiskers | https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Foffloop.net%2Fcovid19h%2Fbozza.htm | 22:23 |
slash_ | LjL but, I hope that the EU can come together over this | 22:24 |
slash_ | LjL the virus entered the EU, there is no single EU nation to blame | 22:25 |
slash_ | LjL so all of us are responsible | 22:25 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: bars and restaurants can stay open! | 22:26 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, which is... pretty stupid? | 22:26 |
Spec | lol | 22:26 |
tinwhiskers | Doesn't really fit with: absolutely avoid any movement into and out of the territories referred to in | 22:27 |
tinwhiskers | this article , as well as within the same territories referred to in this article , | 22:27 |
tinwhiskers | except for journeys motivated by indifferent working needs or situations | 22:27 |
tinwhiskers | emergency ; | 22:27 |
LjL | Spec, and they aren't even completely forbidding religious ceremonies | 22:27 |
LjL | you just have to "keep distance", ffs | 22:27 |
Spec | LjL: :( | 22:27 |
tinwhiskers | And sportspeople are pretty much given a free pass... | 22:28 |
slash_ | at least the Pope is gonna be a Twitch streamer now | 22:28 |
Spec | hahaha | 22:29 |
Spec | don't forget to subscribe and like | 22:29 |
slash_ | don't forget to give your prime subs to the catholic church! | 22:30 |
LjL | there are press rumors that our government is organizing to only "meet" via Skype from now on | 22:31 |
LjL | after Zingaretti (Democratic Party leader) was found positive | 22:32 |
LjL | when it gets to the politicians, that's when they take "harsh measures", isn't it | 22:32 |
slash_ | that's one positive thing in this situation | 22:32 |
slash_ | politicians can and are getting infected | 22:33 |
LjL | Spec, my tweets, even the normal ones about earthquakes, are getting WAY fewer views than normal | 22:33 |
slash_ | at least for once, this issue also affects the ruling class | 22:33 |
LjL | like... i'm talking 3 vs the normal 300 | 22:33 |
LjL | slash_, last i checked, 7% of the Iranian parliament was infected. imagine the rest | 22:34 |
Spec | LjL: everyone's outside partying :) | 22:34 |
slash_ | LjL yes I saw that, but those dumbasses where also visiting coronapatients and shit | 22:34 |
LjL | Spec, most of my followers aren't italians | 22:34 |
slash_ | and shaking their hands | 22:34 |
LjL | smart | 22:34 |
Spec | and touching religious statues | 22:35 |
Spec | with their...hands | 22:35 |
ryouma | blarney stone too? | 22:35 |
ryouma | episcopal/catholic communion/mass cups? | 22:36 |
ryouma | anglican* and presumably orthodox | 22:36 |
slash_ | There was this government official a week or so ago who said "if there are more than 40 cases I will resign!" What happened to that guy? | 22:36 |
slash_ | in Iran | 22:37 |
Spec | ryouma: oh, holy water doesn't spread the virus, it is blessed by the lord, our savior | 22:37 |
tinwhiskers | slash_: lol | 22:38 |
slash_ | did he die of the virus? | 22:39 |
adventurer | Did you hear about the Iranian guy licking some shrine there | 22:39 |
tinwhiskers | lol | 22:39 |
slash_ | adventurer "the iranian guy" | 22:39 |
slash_ | you mean, millions of pilgrims | 22:39 |
tinwhiskers | wow | 22:40 |
adventurer | Oh yeah you're right | 22:40 |
adventurer | https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iranian-Shias-lick-kiss-shrines-in-defiance-of-coronavirus-outbreak-619428 | 22:40 |
slash_ | also, they kiss the shrine, then rub their face and hands on it, then they rub their face with their hands | 22:40 |
adventurer | On the radio they just quoted one guy but it sounds like it was many | 22:40 |
tinwhiskers | "let's get this over and done with" | 22:40 |
slash_ | MAXIMUM CONTAGION | 22:40 |
tinwhiskers | While people dying isn't cool, I'd rather it be religious folk than old folk. | 22:42 |
LjL | i think 6 or 7 drops of benzodiazepine are now in order | 22:43 |
slash_ | tinwhiskers unfortunately it's the people doing these dumb religious rituals that are spreading it accross the country | 22:44 |
tinwhiskers | true | 22:44 |
slash_ | A lot of elderly will die because of this I think... | 22:45 |
LjL | they say families should unite in emergencies, instead my dad bouts away then keeps on watching TV, my mom's been on the phone for an hour, and i'm here... talking to people none of which live anywhere near me | 22:46 |
Spec | LjL: :D | 22:46 |
Spec | tinwhiskers: oh fuck yeah spread it.jpg | 22:46 |
tinwhiskers | :-( | 22:47 |
slash_ | Well I hope you will stay healthy LjL :) | 22:47 |
Spec | i'm still debating whether or not i'm excessively paranoid | 22:47 |
Spec | 0 announced cases, but i haven't left my house in over a week :P | 22:47 |
LjL | slash_, that is making the rather risky assumption that i'm healthy in the first place | 22:48 |
Spec | contingo: how are you feeling? | 22:48 |
slash_ | LjL that is true | 22:48 |
slash_ | LjL well at least I hope you don't catch this virus named after a shitty Mexican beer | 22:49 |
LjL | Spec, am *i* being excessively paranoid when i note that 1) my tweets suddenly have virtually zero readers, and 2) the thread i briefly commented on about "Lombardy becomes all a red area" on r/italy has already disappeared from the hot page? | 22:49 |
slash_ | you might be shadowbanned on reddit? | 22:50 |
Spec | LjL: i think all social media sites are struggling to combat misinformation | 22:50 |
twomoons | what are you thinking ljl ? | 22:50 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: wow, looks like Italy and Iran are about to overtake South Korea. | 22:50 |
contingo | exactly the same Spec, thanks for asking. One cough earlier. How about you? | 22:50 |
BruntLIVE | ljl: its corona dunkirk | 22:50 |
Spec | contingo: yeah, one cough, not many. didn't sneeze all day yet, no fevers to report. my wife coughed once (a bad sounding cough), but is otherwise fine. | 22:51 |
LjL | slash_, what, how do you infer from that that i'm shadowbanned on reddit | 22:51 |
LjL | Spec, "This post is locked. You won't be able to comment." https://www.reddit.com/r/italy/comments/ff14ce/lombardia_in_zona_rossa/ | 22:51 |
twomoons | i'd rather hear your speculation than Slash's , LjL | 22:51 |
LjL | i'd rather know what i'm thinking before i tell it to others | 22:51 |
Spec | LjL: why'd they remove that post o.O | 22:52 |
twomoons | lol | 22:52 |
LjL | for now i'm seeing a thread that announces a quarantine on where i live being removed and locked | 22:52 |
tinwhiskers | weird | 22:52 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 21:47 UTC: /u/slakmehl: A map of the area in Italy which will be on lockdown until April, from which no one can exit without special approval. It includes not just the Italy's beating economic heart in Milan and the Lombardy region, but also Venice. → https://is.gd/Jn1t3i | 22:52 |
slash_ | LjL you can check by logging out and trying to find the post, it won't show up if it is hidden or if you are shadowbanned | 22:52 |
Spec | you mean use private mode :P | 22:53 |
LjL | slash_, it's not my post | 22:53 |
slash_ | LjL incognito also works ofc | 22:53 |
LjL | i guess i will have to rely on r/worldnews then since r/italy is being more like r/mussolini | 22:53 |
Spec | LjL: do you think your fellow citizens are entering a full panic mode? | 22:53 |
LjL | Spec, i think most of them have no idea, partly perhaps because posts about it are being removed | 22:54 |
slash_ | LjL well tbh I do not know :p I do not read /r/italy | 22:54 |
Spec | interestingly low fever numbers i see, anecdotally | 22:54 |
LjL | slash_, you're just confusing things. i said my TWEETS aren't being viewed, and then i said someone ELSE's reddit post abotu the quarantine got removed and locked | 22:55 |
LjL | twitter != reddit | 22:55 |
contingo | good grief my geography is appalling | 22:56 |
contingo | I thought Venice was in southern Italy | 22:56 |
slash_ | LjL ahhh, yes I misread. | 22:56 |
slash_ | LjL the tweets are still odd though | 22:58 |
slash_ | a lot of subreddits do seem to have quite arbitrary moderation though | 23:00 |
Spec | contingo: oh, it's not? | 23:02 |
Spec | contingo: :D | 23:02 |
Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +11 cases (now 106007) 🔸 Brazil: +3 cases (now 17) 🔸 US: +8 cases (now 409) | 23:05 |
twomoons | are you locked down now ljl ? | 23:06 |
LjL | twomoons, yes, soon | 23:08 |
LjL | i don't know when the law becomes enforced | 23:08 |
twomoons | i see. what's going to be your range of roam ? | 23:08 |
twomoons | in square kilometers | 23:08 |
Albright | %stats us | 23:09 |
Brainstorm | RuntimeError: dictionary changed size during iteration (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/info.py", line 389, in stats) | 23:09 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:05 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York declares emergency; Italy to lock down Milan area → https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 23:10 |
LjL | Albright, just try again | 23:14 |
LjL | %stat us | 23:14 |
LjL | %stats us | 23:14 |
Brainstorm | Most used commands: watch_for_privmsg (256), watch_for_messages (256), science (256), responds (256), quup (256), police (256), mc44 (256), check (256), banned_words (256), watch_for_backlog (255) | 23:14 |
Brainstorm | Power users: LjL (590), slash_ (476), Spec (311), LuisR14 (246), tinwhiskers (231), DesertPunk (222), Yaniel (217), jcay (167), SteveTheTribble (150), Brainstorm (113) | 23:14 |
Brainstorm | Power channels: ##covid-19 (1854), ##japanese (1142), #fdroid (63) | 23:15 |
LjL | oh it's not evne stats | 23:15 |
LjL | %data US | 23:15 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, US, there are 409 cases, 17 deaths (4.2% of cases), 15 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 22:51:00 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 23:15 |
Albright | Jeez, our death rate continues to stink it up. | 23:15 |
LjL | twomoons, i have no idea, as i see the law is extremely unclear | 23:15 |
Albright | Not that this is a competition, but… | 23:15 |
Albright | And I don't know how many times I've mixed up %stats and %data | 23:16 |
LjL | You have been temporarily muted from r/italy. You will not be able to message the moderators of r/italy for 72 hours. | 23:16 |
LjL | permalinkdeletereportblock subreddit | 23:16 |
LjL | You've been permanently banned from participating in r/italy | 23:16 |
LjL | subreddit message via /r/italy[M] sent just now | 23:16 |
LjL | You have been permanently banned from participating in r/italy. You can still view and subscribe to r/italy, but you won't be able to post or comment. | 23:16 |
LjL | If you have a question regarding your ban, you can contact the moderator team for r/italy by replying to this message. | 23:16 |
LjL | Reminder from the Reddit staff: If you use another account to circumvent this subreddit ban, that will be considered a violation of the Content Policy and can result in your account being suspended from the site as a whole. | 23:16 |
slash_ | what did you do LjL | 23:17 |
twomoons | omg ljl what could have happened | 23:18 |
LjL | slash_, i posted complaining they can't possibly censor breaking news | 23:18 |
LjL | https://www.reddit.com/r/italy/comments/ff2es3/ma_come_vi_permettete_di_censurare_la_notizia_che/ | 23:18 |
LjL | but evidently they can | 23:18 |
slash_ | to be fair I've been banned from subreddit's for linking wikipedia pages lmao | 23:18 |
twomoons | when you get banned from a reddit channel, who is making that decision? | 23:19 |
Albright | The mods of that subreddit. | 23:20 |
twomoons | i see | 23:20 |
Albright | Subreddit mods are kinda notorious for being power-hungry, though it certainly depends on the mod/subreddit. | 23:20 |
slash_ | some of the ultra leftwing subreddits also ban you for posting on a subreddit that they dislike | 23:21 |
slash_ | I got banned from /r/latestagecapitalism for posting on /r/stupidpol | 23:21 |
slash_ | they are both leftwing subreddits lol | 23:22 |
Albright | Oh, yeah, I've heard of that too. The whole thoughtcrime thing. | 23:22 |
twomoons | lol | 23:22 |
Albright | Stereotypically kids who have some semblance of authority for the first time in their lives and let it go to their head. | 23:22 |
slash_ | apparently like Bernie Sanders isn't enough nowadays to be a progressive or something | 23:23 |
slash_ | or maybe its's because I am Dutch? :O | 23:23 |
twomoons | sounds a lot like irc | 23:23 |
slash_ | I mean I think I commented once that Bernie would basically be a centrist in Dutch politics | 23:24 |
twomoons | apparently liking Bernie(?) | 23:24 |
slash_ | he's a good honest dude | 23:24 |
twomoons | lol slash_ that's what my mom's dutch friend said | 23:24 |
twomoons | bernie's a centrist in holland | 23:25 |
slash_ | twomoons well he is, I mean we have right wing parties here trying to make universal healthcare cheaper for working class people | 23:26 |
slash_ | imagine that in the USA | 23:26 |
twomoons | lol | 23:26 |
twomoons | i thought Bern was taking off but then super tuesday happened | 23:27 |
slash_ | twomoons yeah I thought so too | 23:27 |
slash_ | but Biden? | 23:27 |
slash_ | really> | 23:27 |
slash_ | ?? | 23:27 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 22:20 UTC: Coronavirus: Family pay tribute to 'wonderful great-grandad': The family of a man who died with coronavirus say they cannot arrange his funeral because they are self-isolating. → https://is.gd/QKvZ3q | 23:27 |
twomoons | everyone thought he was toast after new hampshire | 23:28 |
slash_ | of all the candidates, Biden is now somehow competing against Bernie???? | 23:28 |
yuriwho | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/07/italy-set-to | 23:28 |
slash_ | does America not have TV and the internet or something? | 23:28 |
twomoons | yeah i don't get that slash_ something weird happened | 23:28 |
twomoons | lol | 23:28 |
Albright | Bernie will probably stay in 'til the convention and Biden's such a goofball that there's a chance he might drop an N-bomb or something and destroy his own campaign, so we'll see. He still has a chance. | 23:28 |
yuriwho | ^ quarantining whole of Lombardy | 23:28 |
Albright | But anyway, viruses. | 23:28 |
slash_ | ughh | 23:28 |
slash_ | Biden is going to be the nominee and Trump will get a second term | 23:29 |
slash_ | fucking hell | 23:29 |
Albright | Well, if Bernie's the nominee, Trump will also get a second term… I don't think he's defeatable by either of them. | 23:29 |
Albright | But ANYWAY, viruses. | 23:29 |
slash_ | from my European perspective the Democratic Party dislikes Bernie more than Trump lol | 23:29 |
twomoons | i think that's possibly true slash_ | 23:30 |
slash_ | Albright yeah, maybe, I can't really judge properly | 23:30 |
twomoons | although if Bernie starts campaigning on coronavirus i think he has a chance to beat everyone | 23:31 |
slash_ | but Bernie seems like the good anti establishment guy, and Trump the evil onr | 23:31 |
slash_ | in any case people in the US seem to be really fucking sick and tired of the establishment | 23:32 |
slash_ | Biden is just a demented Hillary with a penis | 23:32 |
Albright | Trump is not nearly as evil as the press makes him out ot be. | 23:32 |
slash_ | well maybe not evil, but very uncaring | 23:33 |
slash_ | but | 23:33 |
twomoons | only recently did trump start annoying me | 23:33 |
slash_ | to be fair, I've not seen a US president in my lifetime that seemed to actually give a shit about human lives | 23:34 |
slash_ | Trump isn't even worse than most presidents tbh | 23:34 |
slash_ | not that this says much | 23:34 |
Albright | No, not at all. | 23:34 |
slash_ | from my perspective the only difference is that Trump is at least honest about being a fucking asshole lmao | 23:35 |
slash_ | the rest just acted like civilized people while ordering the bombings of innocent people | 23:35 |
Albright | Yes, he certainly comes across as more genuine than most politicians, even when you know he's lying. | 23:35 |
Albright | If that makes sense. | 23:36 |
Albright | But anyway, viruses. | 23:36 |
slash_ | oh shit | 23:36 |
ubLIX | slash_: you really mean that he lacks the competence necessary to conceal the degree of his assholery | 23:36 |
slash_ | I forgot about the viruses | 23:36 |
twomoons | do you really think Bernie is gonna run the military any differently ? | 23:36 |
slash_ | twomoons he will use executive orders to end some engagements, but aside from that, no | 23:37 |
slash_ | people really overestimate what a US president does tbh | 23:38 |
twomoons | if anything because he'll collect more tax revenue more money will find its way into the military budget | 23:38 |
Albright | Yes, that's true, but that's partially their own fault. | 23:38 |
LjL | Spec, i also posted about it on r/Coronavirus. shortly afterwards it was removed with the reason that "it was already posted", and true enough, if i use the search function, it shows a lot of posts about it... but none of them in the actual r/Coronavirus "hot" or "new" page, that i can see | 23:38 |
slash_ | I am not really a political scientist or anything, but the US really needs some sort of political reforms | 23:39 |
slash_ | a 2 party system is NOT healthy | 23:39 |
Albright | slash_: Okay, so. I would argue that we don't really have a 2-party system. | 23:40 |
Albright | Because both parties have such wide bases. Within the Republican parties there are both libertarians and religious conservatives. | 23:40 |
Albright | Within the Democrats there are both businesspeople and socialists. | 23:40 |
twomoons | lol | 23:40 |
slash_ | Albright but it is ridiculous to have such vast differences in ONE party | 23:41 |
LjL | https://np.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/ff2ohj/italy_quarantines_whole_of_lombardy_including/fjuw81o/ | 23:41 |
Albright | To this day theres a strong contingent of Republicans who absolutely hate Trump and which he has never been elected. | 23:41 |
Albright | slash_: Maybe, but it's just how things work here. | 23:41 |
Albright | As an ancap, I want to see reforms too… but they would involve tearing the entire system down to the ground and selling the national parks, monuments, and the White House itself to the highest bidder… so don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for the status quo here… | 23:42 |
slash_ | Albright Yes I know, but when I look accross the world coalitions between similar parties seem to work much better than monolithic left/right parties | 23:43 |
Albright | But I also don't like it so much when Euros tell me how my country should REALLY be run. :P | 23:43 |
Albright | BUT ANYWAY, VIRUSES | 23:43 |
slash_ | Albright I do not want to say how the citizens of the US should run their own country! I just want to state my opinion :) | 23:44 |
slash_ | Albright but fuck man, as an ancap are you not pissed off at these two shitty parties in your country? :0 | 23:45 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:33 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York declares emergency; Italy to lock down Milan area → https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 23:45 |
slash_ | also, VIRUSES | 23:46 |
Spec | LjL: shitty reddit mods? | 23:46 |
Spec | i made some hand sanitizer | 23:46 |
Spec | so i can squirt it at people in public, as one does | 23:46 |
LjL | Spec, i need some politician sanitizer | 23:46 |
LjL | Spec, i hear you can source those in the US | 23:46 |
slash_ | hand sanitizers do not protect against shitty reddit mods | 23:47 |
LjL | Spec, land of the free, though quite possibly social-media-censured too | 23:47 |
Albright | slash_: I try not to care so much. I already feel so disaffected by politics. Whatever happens happens. I *used* to be all "oh, it's important for everyone to be engaged with the system," but then I grew up and got taxed and otherwise screwed by the system. | 23:47 |
Spec | LjL: pretty sure administration is censoring and influencing this event | 23:47 |
Spec | why would you insert politicians into a medical response? | 23:48 |
Spec | why is pray-away-gay pence in charge of our response? | 23:48 |
Albright | Politicians insert themselves. | 23:48 |
Albright | "We're from the government and we're here to help." | 23:48 |
Spec | well, they can help | 23:48 |
twomoons | damn ljl you've been called fake news | 23:48 |
twomoons | that's sad | 23:48 |
LjL | twomoons, i've hated the term "fake news" since the moment they started using it | 23:49 |
LjL | and i can't udnerstand how people can't see it | 23:49 |
slash_ | Albright yeah I get it, but fuck at least vote for the option that is least shitty according to you | 23:49 |
LjL | yes, there are stupid fake "news" around, have always been | 23:49 |
LjL | but "fake news" is almost a perfect translation of Lügenpresse | 23:49 |
twomoons | i can't stop 'bucket list' either | 23:49 |
LjL | %wik Lügenpresse | 23:49 |
Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: Lying press (German: Lügenpresse, lit. 'press of lies') is a pejorative political term used largely by German political movements for the printed press and the mass media at large, when it is believed not to have the quest for truth at the heart of its coverage. It can be considered synonymous with the [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lying_press | 23:49 |
slash_ | Albright either that, or work towards revolution | 23:49 |
LjL | this was a term using by Nazis to silence opposition media | 23:49 |
LjL | and today, if you're right wing then the left wing is "fake news", and vice versa | 23:50 |
LjL | how can people not fucking see all this | 23:50 |
LjL | or are they choosing not to see it, just like my dad is choosing to pretend nothing is going on, and keep watching his documentary on TV | 23:50 |
LjL | because that's more comfortable than the fear from what is happening in reality | 23:50 |
LjL | today the virus, yesterday, ever-increasing political extremism | 23:51 |
Spec | %more | 23:51 |
Brainstorm | Spec, [...] term fake news. → Bad Gateway | 23:51 |
LjL | tomorrow... a nice combination of both, and limited freedom of movement for everyone? | 23:51 |
slash_ | haha yeah you're right wing if you say a bad thing about muslims, meanwhile they're firing gas grenades against refugees coming from Turkey and that is fine | 23:51 |
LjL | Spec, paste.ee is down | 23:51 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: You should look on the bright side and see that at least your govt. is largely doing the right thing. | 23:52 |
Albright | slash_: I take a more incremental approach. I support liberty and avoiding government in my own life, and try to expound this philosophy in my family and friends in the hope that, generation by generation, the desire for government "help" will decrease until it is completely unnecessary. | 23:52 |
tinwhiskers | a few details might be screwed up | 23:52 |
ryouma | it isn't clear to me who sees all tihs and who does not. hoardign and prices and fraud and political control of info suggest some are | 23:52 |
Spec | LjL: tbf, your dad lived through 1918 flu so this could be triggering him | 23:52 |
Albright | That said, if it comes to full revolution, I will certainly take up arms, if for no other side than myself. | 23:52 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, i don't think they are. the cat is out of the bag, now we're scapegoats | 23:52 |
LjL | Spec, well, no, but they lived through Asian and Hong Kong flu, though they didn't even remember Hong Kong until i reminded them | 23:53 |
tinwhiskers | a quarantine lockdown is now required though, right? | 23:53 |
ryouma | if government did quarantine and prevention properly, then the virus might be taken care of, and might not have crossed to humans | 23:53 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, what's required now is suddenly having a TON more hospital because next week there won't be nearly enough beds | 23:53 |
tinwhiskers | ryouma: I don't believe that | 23:53 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: while true, a lockdown is needed | 23:53 |
ryouma | ban the markets in china, govs not delaying | 23:53 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, what's NOT required is people making long queues at supermarkets, close together (yeah sure the decree says stores must "enforce" a distance of 1 m between people, ahahha) | 23:53 |
tinwhiskers | ryouma: that's just silly | 23:53 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, and that's what will happen tomorrow when most people discover we're locked down | 23:54 |
tinwhiskers | that will be interesting. but you agree it's necessary, right? | 23:54 |
LjL | no | 23:54 |
tinwhiskers | I'm not asking what you think is unnecessary | 23:54 |
tinwhiskers | What would you do instead? | 23:54 |
LjL | i would limit movements in areas that are not *yet* infected, or only infected in controlled ways | 23:55 |
tinwhiskers | you'd allow freedom of movement in infected areas? | 23:55 |
LjL | it's everywhere already. what's the point in separating me from my relatives? | 23:55 |
LjL | until/unless they're actually requiring us to stay home at all times | 23:55 |
LjL | then maybe it will make sense | 23:56 |
tinwhiskers | keeping people largely in their homes slows the spread | 23:56 |
slash_ | Albright Is that not a bit naive? Look at us in Europe, I mean we do not have bad lives, but we are less free than Americans, despite dozens of revolutions | 23:56 |
LjL | but perhaps, just perhaps, we shouldn't have reached Wuhan-stage | 23:56 |
tinwhiskers | China has shown this | 23:56 |
tinwhiskers | LjL: sure, but you have reached that point. Now, giuven the siutation limiting the speed of the spread is the right thing to do and that requires controlling movement, etc. | 23:56 |
LjL | tinwhiskers, China has also shown a 16 year old disabled guy starving to death after his caregivers were drawn away by the quarantine vigilantes | 23:56 |
tinwhiskers | you're being irrational? | 23:57 |
tinwhiskers | that has nothing to do with thsi | 23:57 |
LjL | whatever | 23:57 |
tinwhiskers | the lockdown is a *good* move given the shit you're now in | 23:57 |
slash_ | Albright governments always move towards more control | 23:59 |
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