| twomoons | ljl: why are you scapegoats? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | twomoons, because the virus is already growing exponentially in the *other* regions | 00:02 |
| slash_ | how long do you guys estimate until 1M cases worldwide? | 00:02 |
| LjL | but it started here, so hey, let's do it here | 00:02 |
| twomoons | ahh | 00:02 |
| LjL | just like the original 50k people quarantine area is ultimately scapegoats | 00:02 |
| LjL | it makes no sense anymore to keep them locked there | 00:03 |
| slash_ | can we even get to 1 million cases with so many countries doing such limited testing? | 00:03 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, there's plenty of testing capability for 1M | 00:04 |
| slash_ | we can do 20k since this week | 00:04 |
| slash_ | not per day, or per week | 00:04 |
| slash_ | but TOTAL | 00:04 |
| tinwhiskers | no. waaay more than that | 00:05 |
| ubLIX | america (allegedly) plans to put out $M test kits next week | 00:05 |
| tinwhiskers | A single lab can do 60K tests a day | 00:05 |
| ubLIX | *4M | 00:05 |
| tinwhiskers | err. 6K tests a day | 00:05 |
| tinwhiskers | some can do 10K tests a day | 00:05 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers in the future yes, but as of last friday we have 20k test in total (like 3k used so far) | 00:06 |
| tinwhiskers | slash_: wordlwide? | 00:06 |
| slash_ | no | 00:06 |
| tinwhiskers | oh | 00:06 |
| slash_ | in my country, Netherlands | 00:06 |
| tinwhiskers | If you're talking about US then yes, pitiful testing | 00:07 |
| twomoons | ljl do you think there is some coordination between reddit and twitter? | 00:07 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh. ok | 00:07 |
| LjL | twomoons, doubtful | 00:07 |
| LjL | twomoons, but there may be some coordination between the italian government and twitter asking to suppress particular "trends" | 00:07 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers US does seems like very very little testing... | 00:07 |
| twomoons | do you think twitter has a way of determining if someone who got banned on reddit owns a certain twitter handle ? | 00:07 |
| slash_ | for so many cases and such a big country it is really really weird | 00:07 |
| twomoons | LjL, i see | 00:07 |
| LjL | anyway, the news is now saying that some regional governors (likely the government of Lombardy) have protested against the decree, and so it has not yet been signed | 00:07 |
| tinwhiskers | ouch | 00:08 |
| Albright | slash_: Yeah, I agree about more control. But I also just don't think another 1776 is practical in the modern day, especially given the current surveillance state and the steadily-increasing arms control laws. So maybe my method of change is impractical, but so is all-out violent revolution. Anyway, all I really can control is myself. | 00:08 |
| LjL | in theory it was to enter into force... 8 minutes ago | 00:08 |
| slash_ | twomoons just make multiple reddit accounts, I have like 5 lol | 00:08 |
| twomoons | haha | 00:08 |
| slash_ | Albright what do you mean with another 1776? | 00:09 |
| slash_ | Albright can't gain independence twice :P | 00:09 |
| Albright | slash_: 1776 is when the US declaration of independence was signed | 00:09 |
| tinwhiskers | The Chinese have shown that with sufficient controls on the movement of people it's possible to slow the spread down well below what the hospitals can cope with. I don't think we should even aim for that much control because that is only delaying the inevitable, but we need some controls or millions of people will die unnecessarily. | 00:10 |
| Albright | slash_: Right, wellโฆย civil war, then. | 00:10 |
| slash_ | Albright you all seem pretty independent | 00:10 |
| slash_ | Albright but, won't that mean splitting the US? | 00:11 |
| Albright | slash_: Speaking of myself, I'm not as independent of government influence and control as I want to be. | 00:11 |
| BruntLIVE | Hotel in China being used for coronavirus quarantine collapses with 70 inside, reports say. https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/news/2020/03/07/coronavirus-china-hotel-used-quarantine-collapses-70-inside/4985415002/ | 00:11 |
| Albright | slash_: Yes, which is one reason I'm not advocating for it. Some people disagree with my ideals, but I don't want to go to war with them. | 00:11 |
| Albright | BruntLIVE: Holy crap. | 00:12 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +15 cases (now 106022), +3 recoveries (now 58444) ๐ถ US: +17 cases (now 418) ๐ธ Argentina: +1 cases (now 9) ๐ธ Brazil: +4 cases (now 18) ๐ธ Israel: +4 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Mainland China: +3 recoveries (now 55524) | 00:12 |
| tinwhiskers | That's chinese steel for ya | 00:12 |
| BruntLIVE | Earth wants a reset | 00:12 |
| Spec | global pandemics aren't new | 00:12 |
| ryouma | i'd prefer we get to the political mayhem after the virus is somewhat controlled pretty please? | 00:12 |
| Spec | and this isn't even a pandemic yet :) | 00:12 |
| Albright | Always interesting to see official CN news sources publish news via Twitterโฆ | 00:13 |
| Spec | ryouma: that's when the real excitement begins, doesn't it? | 00:13 |
| ryouma | or no mayhem at all beacuse humans start to act responsibly? | 00:13 |
| ryouma | well it's lookoing like my survival (bedridden, not prepared) is low | 00:13 |
| slash_ | Albright I understand, I don't think any sensible person wants a new civil war | 00:13 |
| Albright | Damn, those photos are terrible. | 00:14 |
| tinwhiskers | ryouma: I feel similarly | 00:14 |
| slash_ | Albright we're all still human beings, if I disagree with someone I can just call them an asshole, no need for bloodshed | 00:14 |
| ryouma | idk why you think the following; you jgth be muich more of an expert than i am but if china had banned livbe anuimal markets that are most dangerous and countries outside china had the strict measures they use now back then we might be in btter shape. 15:53 <tinwhiskers> ryouma: that's just silly | 00:15 |
| Albright | slash_: Agreed. | 00:15 |
| ryouma | not to mention larger stockpiles of masks, better plans in advance, etc. | 00:15 |
| tinwhiskers | errr... ok. | 00:15 |
| BruntLIVE | vaccine will be issued by income, high incomes first. (they drive economy) | 00:15 |
| tinwhiskers | better plans, yes | 00:15 |
| Albright | You know, I've actually eaten breakfast on a street in Shanghai while chickens were being beheaded in a stall next door. It's just the way they do it there. | 00:16 |
| LjL | map of the likely locked-down parts of Italy: https://i.imgur.com/SpxMyVz.png | 00:16 |
| slash_ | Albright Also, at this point I think I have to agree with the WHO, all of humanity has a common enemy right now and we have named it COVID-19 | 00:16 |
| twomoons | nice map ljl | 00:17 |
| slash_ | Albright and I am not a fan of the WHO, but they are right about this | 00:17 |
| Albright | Well, a stopped clock, etc etc. | 00:17 |
| slash_ | true | 00:17 |
| tinwhiskers | ryouma: I don't think banning meat markets is feasible and I don't think it will prevent novel viruses from crossing over from wild animals. | 00:17 |
| tinwhiskers | maybe we should just ban wild animals from existing | 00:18 |
| BruntLIVE | warm beef | 00:18 |
| slash_ | Albright even the assholes are right sometimes eh :P | 00:18 |
| twomoons | we should just eat pork | 00:18 |
| Albright | I had bacon this morning. :P | 00:18 |
| slash_ | ahh shit bacon | 00:19 |
| Albright | Mapo tofu | 00:19 |
| slash_ | what is the best way for long term storage? | 00:19 |
| Albright | Xiaolongbao | 00:19 |
| Albright | damn | 00:20 |
| Albright | Long term storage of bacon? You could probably freeze itโฆ | 00:20 |
| tinwhiskers | Bats shit on my roof all the time. If a bat was infected there's a chance I could get infected. This happens over vast areas all the time. That the last couple of viruses emerged in meat markets does not mean stopping meat markets will prevent crossover. | 00:20 |
| tinwhiskers | Bats are considered a delicacy here too | 00:21 |
| slash_ | how often do you need to go onto the roof? | 00:21 |
| tinwhiskers | My drinking water is rain water, that I collect from my roof | 00:21 |
| tinwhiskers | as it is in many many places | 00:22 |
| tinwhiskers | there isn't a single river in this entire country | 00:22 |
| twomoons | do you have a tin roof tinwhiskers ? | 00:22 |
| slash_ | which country? | 00:22 |
| tinwhiskers | I do :-) | 00:22 |
| tinwhiskers | Tonga | 00:22 |
| twomoons | wow, nice setup. i hope you collect rain off your plastic roof though | 00:22 |
| tinwhiskers | no, it's a tin roof | 00:23 |
| slash_ | 1 case in Tonga now right? | 00:23 |
| tinwhiskers | So I have a "first flush" device that diverts the initial rain that contains most of the shit away from the tank, but it's broken now so I'm doing it manually. Most people don't have a first flush device | 00:23 |
| tinwhiskers | slash_: unconfirmed (no labs here) | 00:23 |
| tinwhiskers | When you live in the wild there is always risk of getting diseases from wild animals. Banning meat markets is not a solution. | 00:24 |
| slash_ | tinwhsikers to be clear; Tonga in the pacific ocean right? | 00:25 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, just near Fiji | 00:25 |
| twomoons | first flush is a good idea, i kinda thought of that before but didn't have any good idea for implementing it | 00:25 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers alright | 00:26 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers shit ban all visitors for like 6 months tbh lol | 00:26 |
| twomoons | banning overly centralized meat markets that get too much foot traffic could be a good thing though tinwhiskers | 00:27 |
| tinwhiskers | you only need one person to be infected for it to spread outside the meat market. the size doesn't make much difference. | 00:27 |
| tinwhiskers | if you broke it down into 50 smaller markets instead that doesn't change the chance of a crossover occurring as far as I can see | 00:28 |
| twomoons | the size is what allows those viruses to mutate fast enough before dying off to become a thing | 00:28 |
| twomoons | the density and size | 00:28 |
| tinwhiskers | they are not mutating *in the market* | 00:29 |
| twomoons | i think they are | 00:29 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers what is your government doing now to prevent spread? | 00:29 |
| twomoons | and they mutate faster when there's a high density and the right conditions. meat markets are probably perfect since the temp must be kept lower | 00:29 |
| twomoons | but i don't know anything | 00:29 |
| tinwhiskers | nothing, although they've declared one island will be used for quarantine. It's just an island with trees on. No buildings, no water, so I guess they are planning to just leave people there | 00:30 |
| slash_ | lol | 00:30 |
| slash_ | well at least that is a better quarantine that most western EU nations tbh | 00:31 |
| tinwhiskers | people are not keeping bats in the market. The catch them in the wild, bring them to the market and sell them. The mutations occur in the wild and it's just the bringing of those bats into contact with people that allows the crossover to occur. | 00:31 |
| slash_ | Robinson Crusoe 2: Quarantine | 00:31 |
| tinwhiskers | the size of the meat market may change how many people get infected initially but that makes little difference once a crossover occurs. | 00:32 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers but those bats are native right? | 00:32 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 00:32 |
| slash_ | the distance between you and larger islands is pretty big so it's unlikely that these bats have the virus | 00:33 |
| twomoons | but tinwhiskers the density of that marketplace or the city itself is what allows the virus to find a host in which it doesn't just 'fizzle out' | 00:33 |
| slash_ | but maybe a NEW CORONAVIRUS! | 00:33 |
| tinwhiskers | oh, there's no bats here with the virus. I'm talking about bats in China | 00:33 |
| tinwhiskers | I mean, I guess they could pick it up but that's not a concern. | 00:33 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers you import bats from china? | 00:33 |
| tinwhiskers | no | 00:33 |
| tinwhiskers | wtf | 00:33 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm talking about the chances of diseases emerging from wildlife (bats) in Chinese meat markets | 00:34 |
| slash_ | well bats are disease carriers for humans, but if they have no relation to other areas then I would not worry | 00:34 |
| dunnp | how is there a case in Tonga? is there a lot of tourism? | 00:34 |
| tinwhiskers | err. yeah | 00:34 |
| slash_ | but your concern about Chinese meat markets is valid idd | 00:35 |
| tinwhiskers | dunnp: it's the quiet time of year but there's always a trickle. | 00:35 |
| tinwhiskers | slash_: I don't have a concern about the chinese meat markets. That's my point. | 00:35 |
| dunnp | 'Tonga was named the sixth most corrupt country in the world by Forbes magazine in 2008.' | 00:36 |
| dunnp | woah | 00:36 |
| tinwhiskers | lol. yeah, and I'm from NZ the *least* corrupt on that list so it takes some gettin gused to | 00:36 |
| twomoons | i wonder what corruption feels like down there | 00:37 |
| tinwhiskers | I just don't have the skills to slip someone some money | 00:37 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers really? they are quite unhygienic and have already facilitated birdflu, SARS and possible COVID-19 jumping to humans | 00:37 |
| twomoons | it might just be you gotta show up to the village chief's party and give a gift or you don't get treated so nicely later | 00:37 |
| swift110 | hey all | 00:38 |
| tinwhiskers | slash_: ffs. the entirety of what I was saying was countering exactly what you're repeating | 00:38 |
| swift110 | The way the media is handling this whole Covid-19 thing is really annoying to me | 00:38 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +17 cases (now 106039) ๐ถ US: +16 cases (now 434) ๐ธ Argentina: +1 cases (now 9) ๐ธ Brazil: +5 cases (now 19) ๐ธ Israel: +4 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Mainland China: +3 recoveries (now 55524) ๐ธ Chongqing, Mainland China: +5 recoveries (now 526) | 00:39 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers I am sorry, but you where talking about bats being caught in China? that might have possible spread disease | 00:39 |
| swift110 | When you see a population of folks that are sick then you need to quarantine the area immediatly | 00:39 |
| tinwhiskers | slash_: sorry, I give up | 00:39 |
| swift110 | 'if you quarantine the area then the pathogen can be restricted in it's spread and can be dealt with a lot easier than when you allow people to spread this mess all over the world and put others lives at risk as a result | 00:40 |
| dunnp | tinwhiskers: doyou have a farm or anything? | 00:40 |
| tinwhiskers | I have a farm back home in NZ. Here I have 8 acres of mostly forest. | 00:41 |
| swift110 | how many cases are in Russia despite it being right next to China? | 00:41 |
| dunnp | on the main island? | 00:41 |
| tinwhiskers | no, out on a little 25 acre island | 00:41 |
| swift110 | tinwhiskers, wow 8 acres of forest sounds amazing | 00:41 |
| tinwhiskers | I have 3 beaches! | 00:41 |
| dunnp | you have neighbors there? | 00:41 |
| swift110 | tinwhiskers, inherited from the family? | 00:42 |
| dunnp | you own 1/3 of the island | 00:42 |
| dunnp | crazy | 00:42 |
| swift110 | would be nice to own the entire thing | 00:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes, down the other end of the island there's 3-6 other people depending when you look. It's about 15 minutes by bush track to see them, or by boat. Mostly we see them when we go over to the mainland though. | 00:42 |
| tinwhiskers | dunnp: lease, not own. No foreign ownership here in Tonga, which I wholeheartedly support. | 00:43 |
| dunnp | ah we so you aren't all alone then | 00:43 |
| tinwhiskers | we see their dog quite often | 00:44 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers why are you annoyed with me? they trade wild bats in Chinese meat markets | 00:45 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm not annoyed with you. I just don't care to say the same things over again. | 00:45 |
| swift110 | tinwhiskers, are you in Tonga? | 00:45 |
| dunnp | tinwhiskers: do you do any diving? | 00:45 |
| tinwhiskers | I do a bit of snorkelling but not scuba | 00:46 |
| tinwhiskers | there is about 2-3 km of coral reefs heading east from me, and deep water on the other side. | 00:46 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers alright, fair enough mate | 00:48 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: so uhh | 00:49 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: whatcha doin on that island :P | 00:49 |
| tinwhiskers | not a lot :-) | 00:50 |
| tinwhiskers | fishing, walking, irc... | 00:50 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm unemployed/retired | 00:51 |
| swift110 | oh well | 00:51 |
| slash_ | you live on the main island I assume? | 00:51 |
| tinwhiskers | slash_: I'm not annoyed with you. I just don't care to say the same things over again. | 00:51 |
| tinwhiskers | :-/ | 00:51 |
| tinwhiskers | no | 00:51 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers you've already said that to me :p | 00:52 |
| tinwhiskers | yes | 00:52 |
| tinwhiskers | [12:41:37 pm] <tinwhiskers> no, out on a little 25 acre island | 00:52 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: oh, retired, nice | 00:53 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: brt, gonna build a boat and head on over | 00:53 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 00:53 |
| Spec | you've got gigabit networking, yeah? | 00:53 |
| tinwhiskers | lol | 00:54 |
| Spec | :D | 00:54 |
| tinwhiskers | There's a cell tower on another island about 3km away. I get about 500KB/s on a good day. | 00:54 |
| slash_ | well at least it's a quiet place to lice | 00:55 |
| slash_ | live | 00:55 |
| slash_ | here you're gonna have to pay 500.000+ euro to live near a forest | 00:56 |
| twomoons | and what would a cheap town in holland cost you? | 00:57 |
| slash_ | you can go cheap sure | 00:57 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, it costs a lot to get a beach back home so that's pretty much why I ended up here. It's cheap because it's so corrupt many land deals fall through so people are afraid to come here. | 00:57 |
| slash_ | you can get 150k small house in a little town in nowhere | 00:57 |
| tinwhiskers | but it's very safe here and the people are mostly honest. They may "borrow" something but you'll usually find it somewhere if they don't return it. | 00:58 |
| slash_ | maybe need to travel 2 hours each way for a job though | 00:58 |
| twomoons | what about a suburb of amsterdam...like 20km away from amsterdam or majorcity | 00:58 |
| tinwhiskers | I pay about US$700 per year, so it's pretty cheap by most standards. | 00:58 |
| twomoons | could i live on $15k a year there? | 00:59 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers $700 a MONTH would be cheap for most western countries haha :P | 00:59 |
| twomoons | let's say i rent a house | 00:59 |
| tinwhiskers | twomoons: that would be pushing it if you rented a house here. You'd expect to pay about $400-$500 per month to rent a house on the mainland. | 01:00 |
| slash_ | twomoons 20km away expect an apartment around 200k minimum | 01:00 |
| slash_ | twomoon but Amsterdam is literally the most expensive region, not sure why to start there | 01:01 |
| twomoons | oh ok | 01:01 |
| tinwhiskers | I leased this land without a house on and built one so in reality the cost is a lot more than $700 if you pro-rata the cost of the house into the annual cost. | 01:02 |
| swift110 | oh wow | 01:03 |
| tinwhiskers | I made a raft and towed all the building supplies over with my little dinghy. | 01:04 |
| swift110 | oh wow thats cool tinwhiskers | 01:04 |
| swift110 | slash_, I pay $700/mo for rent | 01:05 |
| slash_ | twomoon I mean there are cheaper places, but paying โฌ150k for 40m2/430ft2 does not seem like a good deal to me | 01:05 |
| slash_ | swift110 well here $700 a month is quite cheap, unless you're renting a closet | 01:06 |
| slash_ | I mean, for the netherlands | 01:06 |
| twomoons | i'm just trying to figure out if there's a cheaper place to live all in all than mississippi | 01:06 |
| python476 | hi back | 01:06 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, when I said $400 per month that was in local currency. You'd rent a house on the mainland for about US$200 per month | 01:06 |
| LjL | RAI TV reports hundreds of people have been rushing to Milan Garibaldi station to leave Milan in a hurry before the quarantine takes effect | 01:06 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: dang. that's not ideal | 01:07 |
| twomoons | ok i'm gonna move to tonga but i might get rejected by their gov | 01:07 |
| twomoons | they might deny me a year long visa or something like that | 01:07 |
| tinwhiskers | probably not unless you have a criminal record. | 01:07 |
| fructose | https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2020/03/07/coronavirus-in-russia-the-latest-news-march-6-a69117 | 01:07 |
| tinwhiskers | they would deny you that since there is no such thing :-) | 01:08 |
| twomoons | ok well i need to let the virus stuff pass tho | 01:08 |
| fructose | Russia seems to be performing better than the US | 01:08 |
| Albright | LjL: ROFL. That's the opposite of the desired effect. | 01:08 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 01:08 |
| twomoons | don't wanna get treated as a virus vector | 01:08 |
| slash_ | twomoons for Europe, maybe countries like Hungary might be cheaper? | 01:08 |
| swift110 | I have an apartment for that much | 01:08 |
| twomoons | hungary, romania | 01:08 |
| twomoons | you have to realize that in the nederlands there aren't mobsters tho | 01:08 |
| twomoons | that's worth something | 01:08 |
| slash_ | twomoons but in general the US has a lot more places with cheap housing prices than Europe[ | 01:08 |
| tinwhiskers | I hear Arizona is cheap | 01:09 |
| twomoons | yeah it does but the weather is also worse | 01:09 |
| slash_ | twomoons no we have mobsters too | 01:09 |
| tinwhiskers | Someone here is just about to move there | 01:09 |
| slash_ | twomoons theres a big mobster trial right now | 01:09 |
| tinwhiskers | Vietnam and cambodia the *the* places to retire cheap imo. | 01:10 |
| twomoons | oh ok | 01:10 |
| tinwhiskers | There's a few other decent options. Tonga is not one of them. | 01:10 |
| twomoons | lol yea never heard of anyone takling about Tonga | 01:11 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 01:11 |
| slash_ | twomoons also landlords are terrible here | 01:11 |
| twomoons | slash_, but mobsters don't fleece your restaurant for money in the netherlands | 01:11 |
| twomoons | oh really? landlords here are one reason i've gotten annoyed | 01:12 |
| LjL | Albright, yes, but it's also to be expected, as it happened in Wuhan before | 01:12 |
| LjL | maybe governments never learn, and keep using the "China has gifted us with time" excuse just to... air their own mouths | 01:12 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: do you think they shoul dhave kept it under wraps until they announced it? | 01:12 |
| slash_ | twomoons I guess, one of them left a decapitated head in front of a restaurent here though | 01:12 |
| LjL | also, these emergency measures are coincidentally being taken after one member of government tested positive | 01:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:08 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 400 as growing number of states declare emergencies โ https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 01:13 |
| LjL | and now the government is rumored to only meet over Skype | 01:13 |
| twomoons | geez slash_ | 01:13 |
| slash_ | twomoons I think landlords are terrible worldwide tbh | 01:13 |
| tinwhiskers | hey, I'm a landlord :-( | 01:13 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i'm not sure they should have done it at all, but, under the assumption it's a good idea, YES, definitely, it should be a complete surprise, or else you actually get a large spreading event | 01:13 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers there are exceptions ;) | 01:13 |
| tinwhiskers | mmm | 01:13 |
| tinwhiskers | slash_: :-) | 01:14 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers but damn, there's so many landlord jerks here :P | 01:14 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, and again, if this hadn't been clear enough by logical reasoning alone... Wuhan showed us what happened. at least 100k people fled the city because they knew in advance | 01:14 |
| tinwhiskers | right | 01:14 |
| LjL | (some say 5 million, but that figure is really about something else) | 01:14 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers we call them "house milkers" over here | 01:16 |
| tinwhiskers | I think the important thing is cutting down on mass gatherings and getting people to stay home as much as possible, with far less frequent trips to supermarkets and whatnot. That some people leave ahead of it not that much of a problem considering it's not a containment strategy. | 01:16 |
| twomoons | what's the figure about ljl | 01:16 |
| LjL | twomoons, it sadly happened just around Chinese New Year. so the 5 million were mostly people who went to or away from Wuhan to celebrate that | 01:17 |
| LjL | which probably contributed a lot to the spreading, but it wasn't "fleeing from quarantine" | 01:17 |
| tinwhiskers | But really the other provinces should be getting the same restrictions too if not now, very soon. | 01:17 |
| twomoons | oh that makes sense ljl. the 5M people theory always seemed a bit odd | 01:18 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i had told my parents we should go to our Alps place... two weeks ago? but they were always like no way. i wonder if they'll still be like no way, after we cannot go there anymore. | 01:18 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 01:18 |
| twomoons | lol | 01:19 |
| BruntLIVE | Corona just brewing to explode: https://tinyurl.com/rjwtorw | 01:19 |
| twomoons | mobilizing 70+ year olds is hard ljl | 01:19 |
| twomoons | take it from me | 01:19 |
| LjL | :\ | 01:20 |
| twomoons | my parents are in good health but it's just hard. everything that comes out of my mouth is taken as a conspiracy theory | 01:20 |
| slash_ | the elderly will suffer... hard :( | 01:20 |
| LjL | twomoons, well, we go just fine when it's about holidays | 01:20 |
| tinwhiskers | BruntLIVE: Agreed. Here's mu picture -> . (earth from a distance with 7 billion people) | 01:20 |
| BruntLIVE | lol | 01:20 |
| LjL | slash_, and if my dad... well, something happens, i'll always hate myself for not buying that oxygen concentrator. | 01:20 |
| LjL | speaking of which, i have like... one package from eBay and two from Amazon due to come Monday/Tuesday. probably not a primary concern but i have a feeling they may not arrive in a timely fashion. | 01:21 |
| slash_ | it makes me think a bit like it a conspiracy to clear up the housingmarket.. | 01:21 |
| slash_ | LjL fuck man :( | 01:21 |
| LjL | also my ear/throat still hurts | 01:22 |
| slash_ | LjL we do have to careful right now... protect the old people | 01:22 |
| tinwhiskers | Why are there so many of us sick bastards here? | 01:22 |
| LjL | slash_, well, aside from having them stay the hell home, now i don't know what else i can do. i guess i can only go outside myself while wearing a mask... but we have one. 1. | 01:23 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: did you see about salt coating your mask? | 01:23 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers are we sick bastards? I just want to be prepared tbh | 01:23 |
| LjL | the merits and demerits of going to the Alps were IMO worthy of debate, but, not really anymore, not with this quarantine law, what if we find ourselves stranded along the way with a checkpoint suddenly appearing? | 01:24 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i saw something being linked about salt, but it seemed very scientific, more than i could udnerstand | 01:24 |
| slash_ | LjL I don't think there is much else to do, just DO NOT visit old people when you have symptoms | 01:24 |
| python476 | LjL: how are things going since before | 01:24 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, we have one FPP2 mask with a valve (or a respirator, i'm not sure, it's still wrapped, was โฌ13 for a single one) and two remaining FPP1 masks (which are theoretically not enough, but i guess... i can dip them into salt? if that's the idea) | 01:25 |
| tinwhiskers | slash_: there's several of us in here nursing sicknesses that put us at higher risk of serious symptoms if/when we get covid-19, despite usually being healthy. Very bad timing. | 01:25 |
| LjL | slash_, unfortunately i live with my parents aka the old people | 01:25 |
| LjL | python476, what do you mean since before | 01:25 |
| python476 | since when we talked (kids in the park) | 01:26 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: the gist is that dried salt crystals on the mask turn liquid when a droplet hits them then as they dry out again that destroys the virus with the crystals. It also makes the pore size on the mask effectively slightly smaller. | 01:26 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers yes those people are at high risk... and even if they are our loved ones we should minimize our phyisical contact with them in case we have the disease... | 01:26 |
| slash_ | Better to nod know than a funeral next month... | 01:27 |
| LjL | python476, oh, then you missed a lot. most of northern italy is apparently being put under lockdown. | 01:27 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: however you need to be in a location where humidity will allow for the salt drying out again, and if you take it out in the rain or get it wet I assume it's screwed. | 01:27 |
| python476 | yeah I just saw the title in the news | 01:27 |
| python476 | so it's gonna happen.. | 01:27 |
| LjL | python476, effective... in theory 1:30 hours ago, but since they didn't actually sign the law due to disagreements, then i don't know | 01:27 |
| slash_ | LjL that is hard... but take the precautions | 01:27 |
| python476 | ok. | 01:27 |
| python476 | pretty weird confusion | 01:27 |
| slash_ | LjL wash your hands and YOUR PHONE! | 01:28 |
| LjL | python476, also people have been crowding the main Milan train station to scram in a rush, according to TV, and even scarier, health workers have expressed concern that they are "beyond the limits", and scariest of all, some anesthesiologists said they are "considering limiting treatment to age groups" (!?!?!?" | 01:28 |
| slash_ | it is useless to wash your hands if you do not also clean your phone | 01:28 |
| LjL | that last thing i haven't mentioned it | 01:28 |
| LjL | yet* | 01:28 |
| LjL | i can't type anymore | 01:28 |
| tinwhiskers | wtf | 01:28 |
| python476 | LjL: which groups first though ? | 01:29 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, if they know people >80 will die anyway, maybe best to just give them a large dose of morphine, eh? i mean i hadn't quite realized we were THERE yet, and i hope it was just some crazy panicking anesthesiologist saying this, but... i dunno | 01:29 |
| slash_ | LjL what does that mean? | 01:29 |
| LjL | slash_, python476: you please do let me know if you find out | 01:29 |
| tinwhiskers | If everyone is forced to stay home wuhan-style the hospitals will probably be able to cope and treat everyone. But people will scream bloody murder about freedom, politicians will balk and lots of people will die. | 01:30 |
| pwr22 | So Italy is doing forced quarantine of areas? | 01:30 |
| slash_ | LjL do they mean they are only going to treat higher risk age groups? Or the other way around? | 01:30 |
| pwr22 | How are they going to enforce it? | 01:30 |
| LjL | %cases france | 01:31 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +8 cases (now 106047), +1 deaths (now 3559), +15 recoveries (now 58459) ๐ถ Mainland China: +17 recoveries (now 55538) ๐ธ Argentina: +1 cases (now 9), +1 deaths (now 1) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 75) ๐ธ Brazil: +5 cases (now 19) ๐ธ Israel: +4 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Chongqing, Mainland China: +5 recoveries (now 526) ๐ธ Heilongjiang, Mainland China: +6 recoveries (now 409) ๐ธ Inner Mongolia, Mainland China: +1 | 01:31 |
| python476 | LjL: I will | 01:31 |
| LjL | %cases france | 01:31 |
| LjL | i said | 01:31 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, France, there are 949 cases, 11 deaths (1.2% of cases), 12 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 21:33:02 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France for time series data. | 01:31 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, France, there are 949 cases, 11 deaths (1.2% of cases), 12 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 21:33:02 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France for time series data. | 01:31 |
| LjL | Brainstorm, oh alright | 01:31 |
| LjL | pwr22, i have no idea, i can barely imagine them having enough police force to cordon the huge quarantine area*s* (since it's not even contiguous), but then, the part about limiting movement *within* the areas, i have no idea, really. but the draft decree does say that army mobilization is allowed if required | 01:32 |
| slash_ | LjL do you have a link to the source? | 01:32 |
| LjL | pwr22, i linked this before, but just to reiterate... this is the areas that are going to be quarantined, it doesn't show the whole of italy but i assume you know the shape and can figure out how sizable a portion this is https://i.imgur.com/SpxMyVz.png | 01:32 |
| pwr22 | I guess we'll see how this goes then | 01:33 |
| LjL | slash_, the decree? sure, but it's in italian. tinwhiskers has posted a version for easier google translation | 01:33 |
| LjL | slash_, https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=it&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Foffloop.net%2Fcovid19h%2Fbozza.htm | 01:33 |
| LjL | scroll down to the bold part | 01:34 |
| LjL | the initial part is just blah blah | 01:34 |
| slash_ | LjL ahh yes, I thought they had enforced additional measures due to your comment! | 01:35 |
| slash_ | LjL at least your government is taking this really seriously now | 01:37 |
| slash_ | fuck I wonder when they are going to wake up over here :( | 01:37 |
| slash_ | probably only when they lose control | 01:38 |
| ryouma | because it matters much more --- 17:22 <tinwhiskers> Why are there so many of us sick bastards here? | 01:38 |
| slash_ | Tonga has a way better chance of containing this than most of the rest of the world | 01:41 |
| slash_ | don't let any of us foreign bastards in tinwhiskers | 01:41 |
| slash_ | we're all diseased virus carriers! | 01:43 |
| tinwhiskers | Well, you give the authorities far more credit than is deserved. If you think Italy or US is poorly organised, you just have no idea how thoroughly disorganised people can be. It is astonishing just how hopeless everything is here. None of the other pacific islands have anything on Tonga. It's unique in its ineptitude. | 01:43 |
| slash_ | well that isn't good news | 01:44 |
| slash_ | we're all fucking incompetent here in Europe | 01:44 |
| fructose | tinwhiskers: Agreed. And even experts can be vulnerable to cognitive distortions. | 01:44 |
| tinwhiskers | you have no idea what incompetence even looks like until you come here. It's not possible to put into words the worlds apart places can be. | 01:44 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +20 cases (now 106067), +22 recoveries (now 58481) ๐ถ U.A.E.: +16 cases (now 45), +2 recoveries (now 7) ๐ถ Mainland China: +1 cases (now 80653), +20 recoveries (now 55558) ๐ธ Argentina: +1 cases (now 9), +1 deaths (now 1) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 75) ๐ธ Brazil: +5 cases (now 19) ๐ธ Israel: +4 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Guangxi, Mainland China: +5 recoveries (now 223) ๐ธ US: +3 cases (now 437) ๐ธ Middlese | 01:45 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers: tl;dr we are boned | 01:45 |
| tinwhiskers | it's like the only people left here who haven't gone overseas don't actually have functioning brains. And I mean they make trump actually look like a genius, which is not something I say lightly. | 01:46 |
| ubLIX | O.o | 01:47 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers I hate to admit it, at least Trump admits the virus is somwewhat of a problem, this cannot be said for the majority of the people of the Netherlands | 01:47 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers best we got is here is shitty memes | 01:48 |
| tinwhiskers | the idea that events follow in order or that cause precedes effect or simple things like that don't even register. Education has entirely let them down to the point they are entirely incapable of performing basic functions but yet they run government departments, | 01:48 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers we have "world class universitities" and then 10 million idiots | 01:49 |
| ubLIX | tinwhiskers: you knew this before you moved there? | 01:49 |
| tinwhiskers | the post office just has a pile of packages spread between the floor and a big shelf. they cannto comprehend to organise it in any form. | 01:49 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers you cannot beat stupidity | 01:50 |
| tinwhiskers | ubLIX: yeah, it's still amusing to live with, but impossible to describe. | 01:50 |
| ubLIX | tinwhiskers: i mean, weren't you worried about what life would be like with no one to talk to? | 01:50 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers shit man move back to NZ, live in the wilderness untill all of this blows over | 01:50 |
| tinwhiskers | people who come from the western world just cannot comprehend how people here think. There is no order here. | 01:50 |
| ubLIX | (if it's as bad as you make it out to be) | 01:50 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers also, do you need a roommat? | 01:51 |
| tinwhiskers | well, yes, if I get it and serious symptoms I'm screwed. | 01:51 |
| tinwhiskers | so I just plan to hide | 01:51 |
| slash_ | it isn't the end of civilization though | 01:51 |
| tinwhiskers | at the hospital the just wash needles with ethanol and reuse them | 01:52 |
| slash_ | but lot's of things supply chains are disrupte | 01:52 |
| slash_ | electronics like smartphones, TV's, laptops etc are going to become much more expensive | 01:53 |
| slash_ | but, more importantly, lots of medicine will increase in price due to resource shortages | 01:54 |
| ubLIX | i guess the decision-path that terminates on a barely populated island in the Pacific must be motivated by a deeply solitary turn of mind | 01:55 |
| tinwhiskers | :-) | 01:55 |
| slash_ | it is estimated that for the USA almost 95% of all medicine is manufactered in or needs products from China to be produced. | 01:56 |
| tinwhiskers | I enjoy meeting people for coffee when I go into town. There's a few expats around. | 01:56 |
| tinwhiskers | s/enjoy/crave/ | 01:57 |
| Brainstorm | tinwhiskers meant to say: I crave meeting people for coffee when I go into town. There's a few expats around. | 01:57 |
| slash_ | what we call globalization should be called sinoization or something | 01:57 |
| slash_ | the west is so dsman reliant on China it is ridiculous | 01:57 |
| slash_ | s/dsamn/damn | 01:58 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, but if you had to rely on any single place they are probably a good one given their ability to control the disease spread. | 01:58 |
| tinwhiskers | I doubt many other countries will be so successful | 01:59 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +45 cases (now 106112), +1509 recoveries (now 59990) ๐ถ Mainland China: +43 cases (now 80696), +1509 recoveries (now 57067) ๐ธ Argentina: +1 cases (now 9), +1 deaths (now 1) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 75) ๐ธ Brazil: +5 cases (now 19) ๐ธ Israel: +4 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Shandong, Mainland China: +10 recoveries (now 637) ๐ธ US: +2 cases (now 439) ๐ธ Los Angeles, CA, US: +1 cases (now 15) ๐ธ San Francisc | 01:59 |
| slash_ | tinwhisker true, the issue is not relying on China, it is relying on one place | 01:59 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 02:00 |
| slash_ | here in the Netherlands, we do not have any production for face maskss | 02:00 |
| tinwhiskers | we don't even have the sale of facemasks | 02:00 |
| slash_ | and now Germany has forbidden all face mask exports, and now my government is pleading in EU parliament to forbid this... | 02:00 |
| tinwhiskers | yipes | 02:00 |
| slash_ | there should've been an EU wide stockpile of these essential goods tbh | 02:01 |
| slash_ | but now it is every nation for itself | 02:02 |
| tinwhiskers | well, I don't really see much difference to countries outside the EU being on their own | 02:02 |
| slash_ | the EU companies that produce masks are in China | 02:02 |
| slash_ | and China forces these companies to provide 90% of production to China first | 02:03 |
| tinwhiskers | well, fair enough too | 02:03 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers agreed | 02:03 |
| slash_ | EU should have necessary production within the EU | 02:04 |
| tinwhiskers | the thing is although right now it looks like countries maintaining their own production of these things is a good idea it's not going to be profitable so no company is going to wan to do it. | 02:04 |
| tinwhiskers | maintaining large country-wide stockpiles may be a good idea... maybe | 02:05 |
| slash_ | well in China that does not matter though | 02:05 |
| tinwhiskers | well, no | 02:05 |
| slash_ | profitable or not, they must produce and must supply the Chinese government | 02:05 |
| tinwhiskers | err. yeah, I'm talking about countries outside of China | 02:06 |
| slash_ | timwhiskers ahh yeah | 02:06 |
| slash_ | timwhiskers stockpiles not neccissarily | 02:06 |
| slash_ | timwhiskers but at least a means of producing these supplies | 02:07 |
| tinwhiskers | I doubt that is practical or useful alone | 02:07 |
| slash_ | timwhisker in general, that is true | 02:07 |
| adventurer | Australian Government is going to create a stockpile of antibiotics apparently. | 02:07 |
| adventurer | https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/morrison-government-set-to-stockpile-antibiotics-amid-global-shortage-fears-20200307-p547ua.html | 02:08 |
| slash_ | timwhisker but there should be some plan where the EU or US can produce these masks or other medical products if needed | 02:08 |
| adventurer | and they are releasing some of their stockpile of masks to people in the medical field | 02:08 |
| tinwhiskers | Anything is possible if you throw money at it but it won't be many years before funding for such things is withdrawn in favour of some "better idea" that has already failed. | 02:08 |
| LjL | great, i can no longer install any pypi modules for my bot because as soon as i try, praw (the module i need for Reddit posting) complains it now only works on python 3 | 02:09 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers better ideas usually meaning outsourcing to cheaper countries | 02:09 |
| LjL | and i've repeatedly tried to convert the whole bot to python 3 but it beat me | 02:09 |
| tinwhiskers | Maintaining a factory to build medical supplies but not using it because it's not cost effective is not going to work. | 02:10 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers globalism is absolutely terrible for these sort of scenarios | 02:10 |
| LjL | i wanted to install a module for country population data to augment the contagion data | 02:10 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 02:10 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: you want me to slap some populations in the next column of that csv file? | 02:10 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, eh, it won't solve the general problem, but if it's easy for you to do that, sure | 02:11 |
| tinwhiskers | true | 02:11 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers well I guess a bunhc of western billionaires are really happy, but now many nations are completely reliant on the good graces of the Chinese Communist Party in a crisis like this | 02:11 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah :-) | 02:12 |
| slash_ | dear Communist Overlords, please have mercy on our capitalist souls! | 02:12 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i already had it in mind to do this, but now i'm watching TV and they interviewed a couple epidemiologists... they said some rather chilling stuff, but aside from that, about the mortality rate in Italy, they were like, 1) they are not comparable because, say, Korea is using completely different testing criteria, and since this is deaths/cases, "cases" matters a lot, and 2) it's fatality, not mortality, because mortality is over the whole | 02:13 |
| LjL | population. so... let's remove the unknown, and see how it's affecting the whole population, i thought | 02:13 |
| tinwhiskers | I see | 02:13 |
| tinwhiskers | Sounds good | 02:13 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers ugh we need LIBERTY PRIME | 02:14 |
| slash_ | a giant robot from Fallout 4 spouting antin communist slogans | 02:15 |
| slash_ | idk what else to do at this point | 02:15 |
| slash_ | "COMMUNISM IS THE VERY DEFINITION OF FAILURE" | 02:16 |
| slash_ | "DEMOCRACY IS NON-NEGOTIABLE" | 02:16 |
| slash_ | "COMMUNISTS DETECTED ON AMERICAN SOIL. LETHAL FORCE ENGAGED." | 02:17 |
| LjL | breaking, President Conte speaking now | 02:17 |
| LjL | joatds[m] | 02:17 |
| tinwhiskers | I wonder if the population stats for China have been corrected for covid-19? too soon? | 02:17 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers COMMUNISM MAKES NO MISTAKES, IT IS A MISTAKE | 02:18 |
| LjL | he says it's unacceptable that the decree was leaked, basically | 02:18 |
| tinwhiskers | oops | 02:18 |
| LjL | good thing they've censored my attempts to show it then! | 02:18 |
| tinwhiskers | who did that?! | 02:18 |
| tinwhiskers | lol | 02:18 |
| slash_ | but seriously, I think China is underrepporting | 02:18 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, papers | 02:18 |
| tinwhiskers | "The LjL Post" | 02:19 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, ah no i mean, Reddit and Twitter kinda suppressed my attempts | 02:19 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 02:19 |
| LjL | but now he says the final version of the decree is created | 02:19 |
| LjL | he explains what's going to happen: Lombardy and other provinces, many other provinces (sounding like whole nothern italy to me) | 02:19 |
| slash_ | LjL are you committing a coup in Italy? | 02:20 |
| LjL | will enact rigorous restrictive measures to those areas | 02:20 |
| LjL | the rest of the country will have lighter restrictions | 02:20 |
| slash_ | so that's a yes? | 02:20 |
| LjL | for Lombardy etc, we won't be able to enter or leave | 02:20 |
| LjL | also unable to move within the theory | 02:20 |
| slash_ | all hail the new Roman Emperor LjL! | 02:20 |
| LjL | we can only move only for important work reasons, or dire necessity or emergency | 02:20 |
| LjL | but everyone can go back to their residences if they are currently not there | 02:21 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: except somehow you'll be able to go to restaurants and bars | 02:21 |
| LjL | people with more than 37.5ยฐC fever are "strongly recommended" to stay at home and call the doctor. people who are found positive are required by law to stay at home. | 02:21 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, yes, it's still rather unclear just how far we can go. maybe they'll give us a standard-issue leash | 02:22 |
| tinwhiskers | mmm | 02:22 |
| LjL | okay now i won't report the rest of what he's saying, he's just summarizing the decree as i already showed it | 02:22 |
| slash_ | let's see if the dutch media is still awake | 02:22 |
| tinwhiskers | wow. that must feel a bit crazy | 02:23 |
| slash_ | the Dutch media is not awake, the last message is about FB banning face mask advertisments.. | 02:24 |
| slash_ | So uhm | 02:25 |
| slash_ | LjL I swear fealty to your New Roman Empire | 02:25 |
| slash_ | HAIL LjL | 02:26 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +16 recoveries (now 60006) ๐ถ Mainland China: +16 recoveries (now 57083) ๐ธ Argentina: +1 cases (now 9), +1 deaths (now 1) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 75) ๐ธ Brazil: +5 cases (now 19) ๐ธ Israel: +4 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Anhui, Mainland China: +2 recoveries (now 981) ๐ธ Guizhou, Mainland China: +2 recoveries (now 117) ๐ธ Sichuan, Mainland China: +3 recoveries (now 457) | 02:26 |
| slash_ | when do I get my new passport? | 02:27 |
| LjL | slash_, Conte is still speaking, journalists may be busy taking notes | 02:27 |
| slash_ | LjL alright | 02:28 |
| slash_ | LjL let us know when it is finished, it must be important if it is this late | 02:29 |
| LjL | importantly: Conte is now saying they are enabling a system of "regional solidarity", so if one region's hospitals are full, other regions will have to take some of the patients (may be taken for granted if you don't know how Italy's healthcare system works, but it's heavily regionalized these days) | 02:29 |
| slash_ | Ljl yeah that makes sense | 02:30 |
| LjL | slash_, i think he decided to intervene after learning of the "assault" to the Garibaldi station with people demanding to take the last train to leave Milan, but it's just a hunch | 02:30 |
| LjL | a very obvious hunch though if i may say so | 02:30 |
| slash_ | LjL are any new restrictions in place now? | 02:31 |
| LjL | slash_, new compared to the draft? | 02:32 |
| slash_ | LjL I mean compared to those implemented earlier today | 02:32 |
| slash_ | LjL it is quite late now, also in Italy | 02:33 |
| LjL | reporter is asking Conte about the region governors' critiques, and about the leak | 02:33 |
| LjL | slash_, i always go to bed late | 02:34 |
| LjL | "who will ensure people won't dodge the restrictions" "i'll answer right away: police force, who will be authorized to stop citizens and ask them why they are moving" | 02:34 |
| slash_ | LjL same for me, but is it not 2:35 in Italy right now? | 02:34 |
| LjL | "will citizens in the Lombardy red zone area be able to move between a township (commune) and another?" | 02:35 |
| LjL | slash_, yes | 02:35 |
| LjL | he didn't really answer, but basically, "no" | 02:36 |
| LjL | "what about trains, planes, all transport between parts of italy?" | 02:36 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: ah, so what should happen for populations of regions/states? | 02:36 |
| LjL | "they won't stop, but we must all be more responsible, understand this is not the time to take advantage to have a party. stay home, read books, follow classes remotely." | 02:36 |
| slash_ | LjL I think that alone is already pretty insane, you do not hold a press conference in the middle of the night if it is not important I think... | 02:36 |
| python476 | 'night | 02:37 |
| LjL | "how will your relationship with region governors change?" "unfortunately we had this unacceptable, unfortunately early leak that created much uncertainty and alarm, and we cannot afford that. whoever allowed this text to be leaked, in a draft version at that, and you will see the final version has some variations, whoever did this did not do any good to our citizens" | 02:37 |
| slash_ | But, it does seem that Italy wants to get the news out ASAP | 02:38 |
| LjL | so i'm assuming he assumes one of the regional governors did the leak | 02:38 |
| slash_ | even when it is 2 AM in the morning | 02:38 |
| tinwhiskers | dang | 02:38 |
| LjL | slash_, he had to speak up because people were all panicking due to the leak | 02:39 |
| tinwhiskers | Well, that's a good lesson for the rest of world as they follow suit | 02:39 |
| slash_ | LjL I understand | 02:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 00:46 UTC: Itโs not just old people!: Sorry a bit of a rant. Please stop saying it only kills elderly. Iโm only 39. Iโm not THAT old yet! I am a cancer survivor with compromised immune system. I work in busy retail. If you feel unwell please donโt come to my work. I canโt afford sick time. If I catch it then chances [... want %more?] โ https://is.gd/GY8aAf | 02:40 |
| tinwhiskers | There's certain things we need a modern democracy to learn from that we couldn't possibly get from China's experience. | 02:40 |
| slash_ | LjL still, doing this at 2:30 in the morning, they have my respect | 02:40 |
| ubLIX | i'm struggling to imagine who would leak that and why? | 02:41 |
| LjL | ubLIX, the subtext from Conte said it was probably one regional governor, my guess would be Fontana, the right-wing governor of Lombardy, who had already had spats with Conte during this small issue we're having | 02:42 |
| ubLIX | so much for the who; but the why. because 'spats'? | 02:43 |
| slash_ | uggh, 2:44 time to order Chinese food I guess | 02:44 |
| tinwhiskers | Man, there's going to be a lot of eyes on what happens in Italy over the coming days. | 02:44 |
| slash_ | No Chinese food, the Turks have a discount! | 02:45 |
| LjL | ubLIX, i'm guessing Fontana didn't agree with the quarantine at all, and he leaked it to the press in order to cause public outrage and the government to backtrack... but it didn't happen | 02:47 |
| LjL | ubLIX, these things happen a lot in Italy | 02:47 |
| ubLIX | LjL: earlier you were expressing extreme displeasure at the idea of stricter lock-down; but if the alternative is weekly doubling, ... quicker, even.. i mean, what kind of alternative is that | 02:48 |
| LjL | ubLIX, yeah, okay. but by now it's everywhere in italy. not entirely sure why just the north gets locked down. my once-mostly-light-hearted sentiments about/against southern people are somewhat strengthening, they've been since after i learned that while the google trends for "coronavirus" were predictably mostly in Lombardy and other affected northern regions, the google trends for "Amuchina" (italian standard-issue hand sanitizer) were overwhelmingly in | 02:50 |
| LjL | the south | 02:50 |
| LjL | now, if you consider that things like masks and hand sanitizer all ran out, and then they started being sold on ebay/amazon for extortionate prices | 02:50 |
| LjL | well, it makes me suspect that they, too, don't think much of their northern supposedly-fellow-countrymen | 02:51 |
| LjL | maybe more than a "northern italy lockdown" this should be made into more of a czechia-slovakia split | 02:51 |
| LjL | admit we just don't like each other, and split | 02:51 |
| ubLIX | that's not an Italy problem, or a southern Italy problem; that's just humans | 02:51 |
| LjL | not right now, though | 02:51 |
| ubLIX | (the profiteering, i mean) | 02:51 |
| LjL | ubLIX, well, why weren't the searches mostly in Lombardy then? | 02:51 |
| ubLIX | idk | 02:51 |
| LjL | well i feel i do | 02:52 |
| slash_ | LjL things are still OK here, no panic buying yet | 02:52 |
| slash_ | LjL but I've seen Italy and Australia, and I wonder, why do people think they need so much toiletpaper?? | 02:52 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +120 cases (now 106231) ๐ถ Spain: +22 cases (now 525) ๐ถ South Korea: +93 cases (now 7134) ๐ธ Argentina: +1 cases (now 9), +1 deaths (now 1) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 75) ๐ธ Brazil: +5 cases (now 19) ๐ธ Chile: +2 cases (now 7) ๐ธ Israel: +4 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Beijing, Mainland China: +2 cases (now 428), +5 recoveries (now 308) ๐ธ Henan, Mainland China: +2 recoveries (now 1246) ๐ธ Jiangsu, Mainland | 02:52 |
| slash_ | like really, people buying 6 months worth of toiletpaper and shit? | 02:53 |
| slash_ | why toiletpaper? | 02:54 |
| LjL | slash_, tbf i don't think there have really been any problems with toilet paper here. hand sanitizer, masks, and to some extent, food | 02:54 |
| LjL | i've heard about the toilet things wrt Japan and Australia, so far | 02:54 |
| slash_ | ahh ok, I thought it was in Italy as well! | 02:54 |
| slash_ | but yeah, don't you need food first lol | 02:54 |
| LjL | maybe it was, but we've had no problems sourcing toilet paper here, that's all i can say for sure | 02:55 |
| slash_ | you won't shit if you don't have food | 02:55 |
| LjL | slash_, well hopefully it won't come to the point where we're denied food | 02:55 |
| slash_ | LjL I don't think food will become an actual problem in the EU | 02:55 |
| LjL | slash_, no, but, medicines and hospital beds will become worth more than bitcoins | 02:55 |
| slash_ | LjL EU produces WAY more food than we consume as it is | 02:56 |
| slash_ | LjL yes, medicine can become a problem | 02:56 |
| LjL | slash_, but most of the medicines are produced in India, with basic ingredients from China, and in China, Hubei is sort of pharmaceutical central, as i understand it | 02:56 |
| slash_ | LjL a lot of that comes from China... | 02:56 |
| LjL | India have already announced export restrictions on drugs | 02:57 |
| twomoons | omg | 02:57 |
| slash_ | LjL yeah it's pretty bad... I hope this is a turning point tho | 02:57 |
| slash_ | LjL EU should not rely on outside sources for essential medicine | 02:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 01:50 UTC: /u/mmm_toasty: Rob Edwards su Twitter: "JUST IN: Missouri is set to announce its first โpresumptive positiveโ case of COVID-19 (#coronavirus). Governor Mike Parson and St. Louis County Executive Sam Page will hold a news conference at 7:15 tonight in Clayton. @ksdknewsโฆ https://t.co/haYLWyakFT" โ https://is.gd/v6sPH3 | 02:58 |
| LjL | please, don't make me responsible for you hoarding things, though. get what you need, for a reasonable amount of time, if you really do need to take some meds or else it becomes an issue. don't deny others the same possibility | 02:58 |
| tinwhiskers | The EU is not special in that regard. NO country should ideally but that's not practical. | 02:58 |
| LjL | besides, it ain't even a country | 02:58 |
| slash_ | LjL I got all I need for like 2 months+ and buying more | 02:58 |
| slash_ | LjL but still, better a source in the EU as well, instead of just China | 02:59 |
| dunnp | twomoons: nothing wrong with Mississippi | 02:59 |
| tinwhiskers | lol. didn't mean to suggest EU was a country | 02:59 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers we need global production in multiple nations for essesntial medicine, the whole world cannot rely on just China | 03:00 |
| slash_ | it's crazy | 03:00 |
| tinwhiskers | That's ideological, not practical. | 03:01 |
| tinwhiskers | It would be nice though | 03:01 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers well it isn't practical now? | 03:01 |
| tinwhiskers | it's no more practical now than last year | 03:01 |
| slash_ | we should simply not rely on one nation for an essential supply | 03:02 |
| slash_ | no country should | 03:02 |
| tinwhiskers | I agree | 03:02 |
| slash_ | that is not ideology, that is just common sense | 03:02 |
| tinwhiskers | that means paying someone more than you would pay chinese companies to keep it viable | 03:03 |
| slash_ | yes | 03:03 |
| tinwhiskers | well, there's ya problem | 03:03 |
| slash_ | tinwhiskers oh most definately this is what created this whole issue | 03:04 |
| tinwhiskers | It's easy to say that but over time, well... the market decides. | 03:04 |
| tinwhiskers | no, that didn't create this whole issue, but it hasn't helped. | 03:04 |
| slash_ | well I mean, the infinite pursuit for more profit caused this | 03:04 |
| tinwhiskers | aye | 03:05 |
| slash_ | and we disregarded national security | 03:05 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 03:05 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +2 cases (now 106233), +27 deaths (now 3586) ๐ถ Hubei, Mainland China: +41 cases (now 67707), +27 deaths (now 2986), +1511 recoveries (now 45011) ๐ถ Mainland China: +27 deaths (now 3097) ๐ธ Argentina: +1 cases (now 9), +1 deaths (now 1) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 75) ๐ธ Brazil: +5 cases (now 19) ๐ธ Chile: +2 cases (now 7) ๐ธ Israel: +4 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Beijing, Mainland China: +2 cases (now 428), | 03:05 |
| twomoons | hi dunnp | 03:06 |
| LjL | uh oh... they just said earlier that Hubei had had no new cases for two days | 03:06 |
| LjL | guess that's over now | 03:06 |
| tinwhiskers | bummer | 03:06 |
| tinwhiskers | yet Vietnam holds at no new cases for nearly three weeks | 03:07 |
| tinwhiskers | wtf | 03:07 |
| dunnp | hi twomoons - nothing wrong with Mississippi :P | 03:07 |
| dunnp | beautiful place to live | 03:09 |
| ryouma | are tehse numbers meaningful? they keep saying tests are a problem. a state in the us has only 100 kits and idk even if they have tested many ata ll or any. is there accurate epidemiology? are the kits ok? and that is before we even get to the fact that govts do not appear to understand the concept of telling the truth for its own sake or doign the right thing for its own sake | 03:13 |
| ryouma | we are tgalking about numbers but are they just sort of focus poitns for us that don't mean muych? | 03:13 |
| dunnp | %cases United States | 03:14 |
| Brainstorm | dunnp: Sorry, United States not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 03:14 |
| tinwhiskers | %cases US | 03:14 |
| Brainstorm | tinwhiskers: In all areas, US, there are 438 cases, 17 deaths (3.9% of cases), 15 recoveries as of Sun Mar 8 03:00:00 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 03:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:58 UTC: US coronavirus cases top 400 as growing number of states declare emergencies: Gov. Andrew Cuomo declared a state of emergency on Saturday as the number of confirmed coronavirus cases in New York increased to 89. โ https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 03:15 |
| dunnp | US spring break is going to be a problem as people move all over the place | 03:16 |
| ubLIX | the US has been setting up to be the worst covid-19 management so far | 03:17 |
| ubLIX | but if Mike Pence's numbers of test-kit output are true, maybe that will soon be reversed | 03:17 |
| dunnp | gotta protect those markets! | 03:17 |
| twomoons | don't worry dunnp i wasn't dissing miss | 03:17 |
| twomoons | shit i forgot about spring break | 03:18 |
| ubLIX | "good night, and good luck" | 03:19 |
| dunnp | asking people to self quarantine doesnt seem to be working | 03:20 |
| twomoons | yeah it didn't work here | 03:20 |
| twomoons | they told someone to self quarantine upon arrival from italy and she just went right back to work | 03:20 |
| dunnp | wheres that? | 03:21 |
| twomoons | san diego area | 03:21 |
| twomoons | yeah self quarantining is silly when ppl usually live with roommates and need money to pay rent and would prefer to go back to work | 03:22 |
| ryouma | if there were the ability to deliver food and all medicines to everybody and pay the rent then it would be less of a problem | 03:24 |
| ryouma | i.e. if it were covered | 03:24 |
| twomoons | we need Yang's UBI idea | 03:25 |
| twomoons | so employers have something to compete with and so people don't mind self quarantining | 03:26 |
| ryouma | ubi? | 03:26 |
| twomoons | univ basic income | 03:27 |
| ryouma | tma -- too many acronyms | 03:27 |
| ryouma | then those who are bedriddenw ould ont be able to pay for carers | 03:27 |
| ryouma | then they would die | 03:27 |
| twomoons | didn't think of that | 03:27 |
| ryouma | nobodyever does | 03:28 |
| twomoons | i'll think of a workaround for that | 03:28 |
| ryouma | :) | 03:28 |
| ryouma | but when the law is passed, the workaround could be disappeared with the stroke of a pen | 03:28 |
| ryouma | then they still die | 03:28 |
| dunnp | hwo does UBI eliminate home care? | 03:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:20 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China reports 44 new cases, US cases top 400 โ https://is.gd/uFxZLl | 03:33 |
| twomoons | UBI would likely suck up the supply of cheap labor | 03:38 |
| twomoons | he's probably right | 03:38 |
| LjL | so it is signed | 03:41 |
| LjL | let's see | 03:41 |
| ryouma | fwiw https://www.propublica.org/article/i-lived-through-sars-and-reported-on-ebola-these-are-the-questions-we-should-be-asking-about-coronavirus | 03:41 |
| LjL | in the final version, bars and restaurants will only be open until 18:00 | 03:43 |
| LjL | that sounds more reasonable since allowing restaurants to just serve dinner, when we have all these other restrictions, well, that seemed weird | 03:44 |
| dunnp | whats this limit LjL | 03:44 |
| LjL | dunnp, what limit? | 03:45 |
| dunnp | what does this DPCM entail I mean | 03:45 |
| dunnp | beyond restaurants | 03:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:46 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: South Korea reports 367 new cases as total crosses 7,100: South Korea reported 367 new cases, bringing its total to 7,134 cases. It had six more fatalities to a total death toll of 50. โ https://is.gd/uFxZLl | 03:50 |
| LjL | The final version of the decree seems substantially the same as the draft as far as Lombardy etc are concerned, but it extends some of the measures to the rest of the country, too | 03:50 |
| LjL | dunnp, it entails that Lombardy and much of northern Italy is under lockdown | 03:50 |
| ryouma | self quarantine worked in hokkaido? yes? no? | 03:51 |
| LjL | we can't leave, we can't roam away from our home without a justified reason | 03:51 |
| ryouma | what about needing food and medicine | 03:51 |
| twomoons | what's your roam range? | 03:51 |
| LjL | twomoons, there's no specific range. you basically can be stopped by police and if they think you're too far from your home and don't have a good reason for it, well, you'll get taken back to your home, at best | 03:53 |
| LjL | this is my understanding at this time anyway | 03:53 |
| dunnp | wow | 03:54 |
| twomoons | i would love to make buddies with a cop while he's escorting me back to my house | 03:54 |
| twomoons | seems like a cool way to pass the time | 03:54 |
| dunnp | yea what about food? | 03:55 |
| dunnp | I bought a bunch of cans of beans and tomatoes today | 03:55 |
| twomoons | lol me too | 03:55 |
| dunnp | can eat chili for a few weeks | 03:55 |
| twomoons | with beans and tomatoes and green chilies you can make something pallatable | 03:55 |
| twomoons | where u at dunnnp? | 03:55 |
| dunnp | US | 03:55 |
| twomoons | miss? | 03:56 |
| dunnp | nah but I've lived there before | 03:56 |
| dunnp | been all over the place | 03:56 |
| twomoons | ahh ok | 03:56 |
| twomoons | i wouldn't worry too much about food shortages | 03:56 |
| twomoons | but nice to not have to go to the store | 03:56 |
| dunnp | more about how to get the food if there is a lockdown | 03:56 |
| twomoons | and deal with ppl who may be panic'ing | 03:57 |
| dunnp | like the mass toiler paper buying | 03:57 |
| dunnp | not sure what they are expecting | 03:57 |
| twomoons | i wouldn't wanna see people fighting over dried bags of beans | 03:57 |
| dunnp | lucky for me I've got a prime pantry for toilet paper and I use it a lot slower than the delivery so I've got .. a shitload | 03:57 |
| twomoons | you don't have a costco near you? | 03:58 |
| dunnp | I do | 03:58 |
| twomoons | their TP ain't up to snuff | 03:58 |
| twomoons | for you? | 03:58 |
| dunnp | just easier to have it shipped | 03:58 |
| dunnp | im lazy | 03:58 |
| dunnp | and busy :P | 03:58 |
| dunnp | besides then there isn't room in my cart for the giant vodka bottles | 03:59 |
| twomoons | haha | 03:59 |
| dunnp | I actually stopped being a member until recently because I would spend way too much | 04:01 |
| dunnp | go in for some toothpaste and spend $500 somehow | 04:02 |
| LjL | <19dunnp18> yea what about food? โ food stores will remain open, but will have to ensure each person can be no closer than 1m from other people, which will mean people queueing outside i guess | 04:02 |
| LjL | i hope we'll still be able to have food delivered | 04:03 |
| LjL | but i don't know | 04:03 |
| dunnp | ah yes food delivery is awesome | 04:05 |
| tinwhiskers | Fascinating. LjL: You should try to get some sleep soon | 04:05 |
| LjL | but i don't know if food delivery will be considered "essential work activities" that are allowed to be performed... | 04:06 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, you are not wrong | 04:06 |
| LjL | i wish my ear/throat stopped hurting, i need to be feeling good, as soon as i'll be feeling sick, i know i'll panic | 04:06 |
| tinwhiskers | I can't wait to hear details from inside the Italian curtain tomorrow. | 04:07 |
| tinwhiskers | but you really need to look after your health | 04:07 |
| contingo | so, I had some news back from my Chinese relatives | 04:07 |
| tinwhiskers | oh yeah? | 04:07 |
| contingo | they are all now either in KL or Singapore | 04:08 |
| yuriwho | birds nest soup is a cure all? | 04:08 |
| tinwhiskers | oh. ok. | 04:08 |
| tinwhiskers | well that's good news for them at least :-) | 04:08 |
| contingo | and they say to tell anyone who is pleased with China's progress according to the published stats to get a %^$% clue | 04:08 |
| yuriwho | lol | 04:08 |
| contingo | but that's just hearsay :) | 04:09 |
| tinwhiskers | lol | 04:09 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i think there won't be many details forthcoming... i mean, we'll be stuck at home, not much can be seen from our balcony... i guess i can count how many people enter the train station (conceivably none) | 04:09 |
| tinwhiskers | Malaysia and Singapore are looking good still | 04:09 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: nevertheless, it'll be interesting to hear | 04:09 |
| contingo | my relatives who live in China are Malaysian citizens | 04:10 |
| tinwhiskers | Ah. I see | 04:10 |
| twomoons | why would they move to china | 04:11 |
| twomoons | malaysia is better isn't it | 04:11 |
| contingo | well, they have homes in KL, Singapore, China... China is where the factories are. And the swiftlet bunker fields for the bird's nest soup | 04:12 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ Guangdong, Mainland China: +13 recoveries (now 1250) ๐ธ Argentina: +1 cases (now 9), +1 deaths (now 1) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 77) ๐ธ Brazil: +5 cases (now 19) ๐ธ Chile: +2 cases (now 7) ๐ธ Israel: +4 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Hunan, Mainland China: +5 recoveries (now 965) ๐ธ South Korea: +6 deaths (now 50) ๐ธ US: +1 cases (now 439) ๐ธ World: +3 cases (now 106236), +6 deaths (now 3592) | 04:13 |
| twomoons | i hope that wildlife trade is not under threat now | 04:13 |
| twomoons | or maybe it's considered farming | 04:13 |
| contingo | one branch of the family was quite settled in China because the patriarch was a HK soap opera star whose face is now on a lot of noodle packagings | 04:13 |
| twomoons | lol | 04:13 |
| contingo | it's a form of farming, the birds make new nests from year to year | 04:14 |
| twomoons | i always wondered about that. | 04:16 |
| contingo | I haven't looked too closely at the land use impacts, from a casual assessment it seems one of the more benign things to be producing | 04:16 |
| contingo | put it this way, my family is definitely profiting from far more terrible things than farming birds nests | 04:17 |
| twomoons | i love all these cantonese ingredients that supposedly boost sex drive and slow aging simultaneously | 04:18 |
| dunnp | seems correlated to me | 04:18 |
| twomoons | oh, and good for lung health too, during covid season | 04:20 |
| contingo | I have been coerced into eating so much nonsense by my Chinese family... never show any sign of illness around them | 04:24 |
| twomoons | lol | 04:25 |
| LjL | contingo, any particular opinion on vitamin D as showing effectiveness in reducing incidence of respiratory infections, and whether that could remain true for COVID-19? (my guess is "no", but, well, i've been given this link and recommendation and stuff *shrug*) | 04:28 |
| twomoons | eat ginseng/chicken soup every day | 04:28 |
| contingo | no LjL. But I'm taking the same dose you are I think | 04:30 |
| LjL | contingo, ah, right. well, so is my mom. maybe we can get my dad on it just because. | 04:30 |
| LjL | contingo, there is one... worrying, and yet comforting new addition to the final version of the emergency law | 04:31 |
| LjL | %tr ร fatta espressa raccomandazione a tutte le persone anziane o affette da patologie croniche o con multimorbilitร ovvero con stati di immunodepressione congenita o acquisita, di evitare di uscire dalla propria abitazione o dimora fuori dai casi di stretta necessitร e di evitare comunque luoghi affollati nei quali non sia possibile mantenere la distanza di almeno un metro. | 04:31 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: An express recommendation is made to all elderly people or those suffering from chronic or multimorbable diseases or with states of congenital or acquired immunosuppression, to avoid leaving their home or home out of cases of strict necessity and in any case avoid crowded places where they are not it is possible to keep the distance of at least one [... want %more?] | 04:31 |
| LjL | contingo, if this won't convince my sister she needs to STAY HOME i don't know what will | 04:31 |
| twomoons | multimorbable heh | 04:31 |
| adventurer | https://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=228691 | 04:32 |
| contingo | I'm drifting off. Everybody.. just... Maintain. | 04:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:37 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: 50 rescued after hotel used for quarantine in China collapses: The hotel was used to quarantine people who had contact with coronavirus patients. Around 70 people were trapped in the rubble after it collapsed. โ https://is.gd/uFxZLl | 04:43 |
| LjL | well, it's also time for me to try to sleep and see what world i wake up to tomorrow | 04:43 |
| LjL | bye | 04:43 |
| dunnp | gnight | 04:46 |
| Spec | oh | 04:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:55 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Italy locks down a quarter of its population: Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte announced that the entire region of Lombardy and a number of provinces in other regions were put under lockdown until April 3. โ https://is.gd/uFxZLl | 05:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 04:05 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Quarantined Wuhan kids hacked their way out of app-based schooling โ https://is.gd/kenD1o | 05:18 |
| swift110 | hey | 05:40 |
| tinwhiskers | hey swift110 | 05:41 |
| swift110 | hpw r u tinwhiskers | 05:41 |
| tinwhiskers | Could be worse. Yerself? | 05:42 |
| swift110 | im good tinwhiskers | 05:46 |
| spybert | looks like my daughter's school is closing due to corona virus - http://blogs.egusd.net/pressroom/2020/03/07/media-statement-elk-grove-unified-closes-school-cancels-classes-and-cancels-student-related-activities-effective-march-7-to-march-13-2020/ | 06:26 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +11 cases (now 106255), +1 recoveries (now 59995) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ British Columbia, Canada: +6 cases (now 27) ๐ธ Czech Republic: +7 cases (now 26) ๐ธ Faroe Islands: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 57084) ๐ธ Anhui, Mainland China: +3 recoveries (now 984) ๐ธ Guangdong, Mainland China: +2 recoveries (now 1252) ๐ธ Henan, Mainland China: +1 recoveries | 06:27 |
| swift110 | hmm | 06:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:02 UTC: US coronavirus cases top 400 as growing number of states declare emergencies: Gov. Andrew Cuomo declared a state of emergency on Saturday as the number of confirmed coronavirus cases in New York increased to 89. โ https://is.gd/K5bpyH | 07:15 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +8 cases (now 106263), +22 recoveries (now 60017) ๐ถ Mainland China: +23 recoveries (now 57106) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 78) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ British Columbia, Canada: +6 cases (now 27) ๐ธ Czech Republic: +7 cases (now 26) ๐ธ Faroe Islands: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ India: +5 cases (now | 07:21 |
| sneep | The hotel thing is crazy | 07:21 |
| sneep | They renovated a building and removed something that was structurally important in the process | 07:23 |
| tinwhiskers | You don't need to search very far to find copious amounts of evidence for poor construction, materials and adherence to standards in China, but it really is not related to covid-19 anyway. | 07:27 |
| twomoons | how's the humidity where you are tinwhiskers ? | 07:35 |
| tinwhiskers | Aug 28, 2019, Building collapses in Shenzhen ; June 27 Shanghai building collapse; Oct 11, 2016 China multi-storey building collapse; May 16, 2019 13 storey building collapse... it's no huge surprise some people happened to have covid-19 in this particular collapse | 07:36 |
| tinwhiskers | usually around 80-90% here twomoons | 07:36 |
| twomoons | awesome for my skin | 07:37 |
| tinwhiskers | :-) | 07:37 |
| twomoons | i'm suffering from dry eyes and crackly skin | 07:37 |
| tinwhiskers | :-( | 07:37 |
| dunnp | ugh humidity | 07:40 |
| dunnp | as long as there is wind | 07:40 |
| adventurer | Those Australian numbers are old now. | 07:40 |
| tinwhiskers | adventurer: where are you seeing newer data? https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries shows it as 78 | 07:41 |
| adventurer | oh no they are right...my mistake. | 07:41 |
| tinwhiskers | oh. ok | 07:41 |
| adventurer | Although they may or may not be double counting the Northern Territory case which is now included with the NSW number by the government. | 07:42 |
| tinwhiskers | ah | 07:42 |
| twomoons | do you have a little motorboat? | 07:47 |
| tinwhiskers | twomoons: yeah just a little 10ft tin dinghy | 08:04 |
| dunnp | must be pretty close | 08:07 |
| dunnp | to the other island | 08:07 |
| twomoons | wow tinwhiskers you really wanted to live close to nature huh | 08:07 |
| tinwhiskers | It's only about 1.5km to the mainland. | 08:07 |
| twomoons | i hope there aren't hurricanes | 08:07 |
| tinwhiskers | I can get up to about 12 knots which is reasonably fast; fast enough to catch yellowfin tuna. | 08:08 |
| tinwhiskers | There's hurricanes most years. We had a category 3 hurricane this year. | 08:08 |
| twomoons | wow must've been scary | 08:09 |
| twomoons | i'd imagine you're right at sea level | 08:09 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm about 6m above sea level. The house was on the leeward side of the island from this storm so it wasn't bad at all. I didn't even close up my large verandah shutter. | 08:10 |
| twomoons | amazing | 08:11 |
| swift110 | hmm | 08:14 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ Hubei, Mainland China: +20 recoveries (now 45031) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 78) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ British Columbia, Canada: +6 cases (now 27) ๐ธ Czech Republic: +7 cases (now 26) ๐ธ Faroe Islands: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ India: +5 cases (now 39) ๐ธ Jiangxi, Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 919 | 08:15 |
| tinwhiskers | The down-wind/sheltered side :-) | 08:15 |
| mefistofeles | it still puzzles me how Germany doesn't have reported deaths from covid | 08:20 |
| mefistofeles | ICUs per capita in germany is high, we know that. May that be related? | 08:21 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah. That is puzzling | 08:21 |
| ryouma | are the numbers meaningful? | 08:24 |
| ryouma | are there enough accurate test kits being used? are they statistically meaningful? | 08:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:36 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Italy locks down a quarter of its population: Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte announced that Lombardy and a number of provinces in other regions were put under lockdown until April 3. โ https://is.gd/uFxZLl | 08:43 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +51 cases (now 106314), +2 recoveries (now 60019) ๐ถ Germany: +47 cases (now 847) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 78) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ British Columbia, Canada: +6 cases (now 27) ๐ธ Czech Republic: +7 cases (now 26) ๐ธ Faroe Islands: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ India: +5 cases (now 39) ๐ธ Kuwa | 09:21 |
| tinwhiskers | Regarding the no deaths in Germany thing. I don't think insufficient testing explains it because the testing has detected 800 cases. It's just that none of those have died which is a bit unexpected. | 09:36 |
| tinwhiskers | Having more ICUs per capita might explain it if other countries ICUs were overwhelmed, but I don't think that's the case because we haven't been hearing about ICUs being unable to cope except in China (maybe South Korea - I don't recall though) | 09:38 |
| tinwhiskers | I'd say they are either somehow offering a better standard of care (unlikely) or have just been very lucky. | 09:40 |
| tinwhiskers | Unless of course it's been engineered to not kill the master race!!! | 09:43 |
| tinwhiskers | /s | 09:43 |
| tinwhiskers | Other possibilities: off-label use of experimental drugs regimes (better standard of care?); not reporting deaths for some reason. | 09:48 |
| tinwhiskers | I don't mean experimental drugs, I mean experimental drug regimes using already tested drugs. China find AIDS drugs might help for example, there might be something related to ACE-2 receptors that people have been toying with. It seems a bit of a stretch but maybe they're getting success with some of these off-label uses of existing drugs. You'd think they would be reporting such things though so I tend to think it's just good luck. | 09:58 |
| adventurer | is worldmeter an extremely credible source? | 10:10 |
| tinwhiskers | adventurer: it seems to be. The numbers align with the John Hopkins arcgis data but are updated a bit more quickly. | 10:20 |
| tinwhiskers | I haven't seen any examples of data at worldometer that JH didn't end up reporting as well but then I haven't rigorously checked. | 10:21 |
| tinwhiskers | In saying that, they do list all the sources of their data and some comes from strange places (e.g. Twitter). | 10:24 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +3 cases (now 106519), +48 recoveries (now 60080) ๐ถ Mainland China: +47 recoveries (now 57156) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 78) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Zhejiang, Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 1161) ๐ธ Norway: +1 recoveries (now 1) ๐ธ US: +1 cases (now 447) | 10:28 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +2 cases (now 106521), +80 recoveries (now 60160) ๐ถ Hubei, Mainland China: +45 recoveries (now 45076) ๐ถ Mainland China: +80 recoveries (now 57236) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 78) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Bulgaria: +2 cases (now 4) ๐ธ Jiangsu, Mainland China: +1 recoveries (now 612) ๐ธ Sh | 10:42 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +19 cases (now 106540), +10 recoveries (now 60170) ๐ถ Hubei, Mainland China: +77 recoveries (now 45153) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 78) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Bulgaria: +2 cases (now 4) ๐ธ Finland: +4 cases (now 23) ๐ธ Hong Kong, Hong Kong: +4 cases (now 113) ๐ธ Indonesia: +2 cases (now 6) | 11:09 |
| sneep | https://foldingathome.org/2020/02/27/foldinghome-takes-up-the-fight-against-covid-19-2019-ncov/ If anyone's interested | 11:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit Italy live at 10:10 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Coronavirus, presidente del Piemonte Alberto Cirio positivo al test โ https://is.gd/uwuJtd | 11:20 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +5 cases (now 106545), +69 recoveries (now 60239) ๐ถ Mainland China: +5 cases (now 80701), +79 recoveries (now 57315) ๐ธ Australia: +1 cases (now 78) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Bulgaria: +2 cases (now 4) ๐ธ Finland: +4 cases (now 23) ๐ธ Hong Kong, Hong Kong: +4 cases (now 113) ๐ธ Indonesia: +2 | 11:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:31 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Italy locks down a quarter of its population: Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte announced that Lombardy and a number of provinces in other regions were put under lockdown until April 3. โ https://is.gd/uFxZLl | 11:38 |
| mefistofeles | woah, 1/4 of the population :o | 12:13 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: you cannot really good out at all then? | 12:13 |
| mefistofeles | s/good/go | 12:13 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles meant to say: LjL: you cannot really go out at all then? | 12:13 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +749 cases (now 107294), +49 deaths (now 3643), +470 recoveries (now 60709) ๐ถ Iran: +743 cases (now 6566), +49 deaths (now 194), +465 recoveries (now 2134) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Bulgaria: +2 cases (now 4) ๐ธ Finland: +4 cases (now 23) ๐ธ Hong Kong, H | 12:16 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +187 cases (now 107481), +5 recoveries (now 60714) ๐ถ Spain: +64 cases (now 589) ๐ถ Germany: +92 cases (now 939) ๐ถ Belgium: +31 cases (now 200) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Bulgaria: +2 cases (now 4) ๐ธ Finland: +4 cases (now 23) ๐ธ Hong Kong, Hong Kong: +4 | 12:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 11:11 UTC: Coronavirus: NHS will get whatever it needs, says chancellor: The chancellor says he is also considering more support for businesses and individuals in an epidemic. โ https://is.gd/tViYeG | 12:30 |
| fructose | https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/02/08/senators-tour-fort-detricks-usamriid-after-funding-withheld.html | 12:40 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +68 cases (now 107549), +3 deaths (now 3646) ๐ถ Switzerland: +68 cases (now 336) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Spain: +3 deaths (now 13) | 12:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:35 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Italy locks down a quarter of its population: Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte announced that Lombardy and a number of provinces in other regions were put under lockdown until April 3. โ https://is.gd/uFxZLl | 12:48 |
| mefistofeles | https://www.lrb.co.uk/the-paper/v42/n05/wang-xiuying/the-word-from-wuhan pretty interesting read, recommended | 13:09 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, if you haven't read it already, that is | 13:09 |
| mefistofeles | %data Colombia | 13:09 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Colombia, there are 1 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 01:43:02 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Colombia for time series data. | 13:09 |
| mefistofeles | heh | 13:09 |
| mefistofeles | %data Argentina | 13:09 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Argentina, there are 9 cases, 1 deaths (11.1% of cases), 0 recoveries as of Sun Mar 8 01:03:17 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Argentina for time series data. | 13:09 |
| mefistofeles | %data Chile | 13:10 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Chile, there are 7 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of Sun Mar 8 06:23:03 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Chile for time series data. | 13:10 |
| mefistofeles | sorry for the flood :) | 13:10 |
| mefistofeles | %title | 13:11 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From www.lrb.co.uk: Wang Xiuying ยท The Word from Wuhan ยท LRB 22 February 2020 | 13:11 |
| python476 | hi | 13:24 |
| sneep | mefistofeles: not really the most useful article. i think the number of governments that are going to be praised as having handled the situation in a good way is going to be a very low number | 13:26 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +12 cases (now 107561) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Hong Kong, Hong Kong: +1 cases (now 114) ๐ธ Norway: +1 cases (now 158) ๐ธ San Marino: +10 cases (now 36) ๐ธ Spain: +3 deaths (now 13) | 13:36 |
| aradesh | %covid uk | 13:38 |
| Brainstorm | aradesh: In all areas, UK, there are 209 cases, 2 deaths (1.0% of cases), 18 recoveries as of Sun Mar 8 04:13:13 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=UK for time series data. | 13:38 |
| Brainstorm | aradesh: Mortality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.3% (assuming deaths/cases with โ of cases undetected), and less than 9.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 13:38 |
| sneep | %covid aradesh | 13:47 |
| Brainstorm | sneep: Sorry, aradesh not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 13:47 |
| mefistofeles | sneep: oh, it's mostly useless, I wasn't implying otherwise | 13:47 |
| sneep | Phew | 13:47 |
| mefistofeles | just a good written article on how some things went there | 13:47 |
| aradesh | :P | 13:48 |
| mefistofeles | we don't just have to read "useful" things | 13:48 |
| python476 | https://old.reddit.com/r/Covid19_economics/comments/feu4j2/china_lights_go_on_but_no_one_goes_to_work/ | 13:49 |
| python476 | some data about china ~economic stats | 13:49 |
| python476 | not linked to cases stats, but another hint at how numbers can be meaningless | 13:49 |
| mefistofeles | numbers in this case are more qualitative than quantitative, still useful | 13:50 |
| python476 | true | 13:51 |
| python476 | but I want quantifiably verified quantitative quantities >< | 13:51 |
| azy | is there always a fever? | 14:01 |
| adventurer | azy, 87.9% of the time according to this article. So not always. | 14:03 |
| adventurer | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_outbreak#Signs_and_symptoms | 14:04 |
| adventurer | so just over 1/10 have no fever | 14:04 |
| LjL | Lombardy's governor is talking now, reassuring us that goods will still be able to travel, that people can still use both private and public transport to go to work, and that obviously we are allowed to go buy groceries | 14:05 |
| adventurer | According to that. | 14:05 |
| LjL | I think if going to work is blanket-allowed, the quarantine won't work great... despite the request (but not order) to make remote working as pervasive as possible | 14:05 |
| python476 | can you still shoot refugees boat on the sea too ? | 14:07 |
| python476 | LjL: so the quarantine "simply" means no going out of your area, but keep living normally and safely ? | 14:07 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +16 cases (now 107577), +10 recoveries (now 60724) ๐ถ Hubei, Mainland China: +69 recoveries (now 45222) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Hong Kong, Hong Kong: +1 cases (now 114), +3 recoveries (now 58) ๐ธ Luxembourg: +1 cases (now 4) ๐ธ Mainland China: +6 recoveries (no | 14:16 |
| LjL | Lol TV is saying everyone (every southerner maybe) is trying to take trains out of Lombardy... Destination cities are putting police at stations but they just showed Lecce station saying on speakers "Passengers from the red zones are require to report to railway police immediately" suuuuuuure they will | 14:26 |
| LjL | python476: well not exactly, since stores and all kinds of commercial activities are stopped on weekends and are required to implement measures to ensure people stay 1m from each other (which sounds kind of unenforceable but some supermarkets have already begun implementing limited-number entry) | 14:27 |
| python476 | LjL: interesting | 14:28 |
| python476 | beijing video last week showed tape placed in stores to give people some form of distance | 14:29 |
| LjL | python476, we don't shoot refugee boats btw, that's Greece. during the previous government they didn't allow them to enter, but honestly, i feel we've been treating refugees a lot better than Greece and Spain, who have both sometimes shot at them | 14:29 |
| LjL | ... and taken EU anger for it | 14:29 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +127 cases (now 107704), +1 recoveries (now 60725) ๐ถ Spain: +16 cases (now 613) ๐ถ Singapore: +12 cases (now 150) ๐ถ Netherlands: +77 cases (now 265) ๐ถ Germany: +12 cases (now 951) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Denmark: +8 cases (now 35) ๐ธ Hong Kong, Hon | 14:30 |
| LjL | python476, yeah hide away, so that you don't get to have to answer the question "how can a national state of emergency last for 5 years and where exactly in the Schengen treaty does it say you can keep it suspended for 5 years" :P | 14:37 |
| LjL | but i guess all of this is pretty irrelevant now, and will be for a good while :( | 14:37 |
| contingo | 5 years? | 14:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test) at 13:12 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Coronavirus: Northern Italy quarantines 16 million people - BBC News โ https://is.gd/7ZVBKY | 14:50 |
| LjL | contingo, they declared a state of emergency in 2015 after the Paris terrorism events, and then they just kept renewing both the state of emergency and the suspension of Schengen every time the time ran out, always using the terrorism justification | 14:51 |
| contingo | I see, does that pertain to the lawfulness of the present decree? | 14:51 |
| LjL | contingo, no, that is about France | 14:52 |
| LjL | python476 happens to be a detestable frogeater | 14:52 |
| LjL | TV is now asking the health minister about the rumors that treatment will not be given to people over a certain age | 14:53 |
| LjL | he answers that they are working hard to avoid this very scenario | 14:54 |
| python476 | one day I'll eat a frog | 14:54 |
| LjL | both by keeping elderly people at home so they don't get sick, and by adding more ICU, infectivology, etc, beds, and also recalling retired medical personnel and hiring more | 14:54 |
| LjL | %cases Italy | 14:55 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +45 cases (now 107749), +2 deaths (now 3648) ๐ถ Sweden: +42 cases (now 203) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Denmark: +8 cases (now 35) ๐ธ Hungary: +2 cases (now 7) ๐ธ Netherlands: +2 deaths (now 3) ๐ธ Norway: +1 cases (now 159) | 14:55 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Italy, there are 5883 cases, 233 deaths (4.0% of cases), 589 recoveries as of Sat Mar 7 18:33:03 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 14:55 |
| LjL | still stuck with yesterday's number, i guess no one has them more realtime than the official daily updates at 18 | 14:56 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews at 05:51 UTC: worldnews: White House falsely claims the coronavirus has been 'contained' in the US โ from r/WorldNews at 05:51: Livethread: Global COVID-19 outbreak โ https://is.gd/sKtTzN | 14:57 |
| contingo | the BBC quoted the head of the crisis response unit for Lombardy saying alarming things about hospital spaces even as things stand | 14:58 |
| LjL | contingo, yes, he did | 14:59 |
| LjL | contingo, did you show me some paper that rebutted the S vs L strain "theory"? | 15:00 |
| contingo | but I believe you have significantly more beds, intensive care beds, and specialist pneumonia treatment equipment per capita, than we do here | 15:01 |
| contingo | no, wasn't me | 15:01 |
| LjL | contingo, the figure i heard yesterday on TV is we have around 5000 ICU beds, although they are now creating more as fast as possible. in Lombardy, we had... 900 i think i read? latium has 550, which is proportional to the respective populations. i suspect southern regions may be worse | 15:02 |
| python476 | https://old.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/ff8uxz/a_person_who_attended_a_gathering_that_included/ | 15:04 |
| python476 | POTUS might have caught covid | 15:04 |
| python476 | \o/ | 15:04 |
| LjL | ugh, young people being interviewed on TV, not sure which city... they are "mingling" even more than usual, since no school, all party | 15:07 |
| LjL | at this point, okay, i also wish for the police to just be in the streets and shipping everyone back to their homes | 15:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 14:00 UTC: Coronavirus: NHS will get whatever it needs, says chancellor: The chancellor says he is also considering more support for businesses and individuals in an epidemic. โ https://is.gd/tViYeG | 15:08 |
| LjL | contingo, yuriwho: what do you think of the statement (claimed by a supposed epidemiologist on TV last night, but i haven't seen their name) that this epidemic will inevitably only taper, "like all similar epidemics", after 15-20% of the population has been infected, and the virus starts finding it harder to land on new hosts? | 15:09 |
| contingo | there are S and L genotypes in circulation. Their genetic distance doesn't amount to their being different strains as normally defined. Some evidence points to L being more transmissible/infective, but not more lethal or capable of inducing more severe disease, and data is limited | 15:09 |
| LjL | contingo, yeah it was yuriwho pointing to this rebuttal http://virological.org/t/response-to-on-the-origin-and-continuing-evolution-of-sars-cov-2/418 | 15:10 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +43 cases (now 107792) ๐ถ Japan: +41 cases (now 502) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Denmark: +8 cases (now 35) ๐ธ Hungary: +2 cases (now 7) ๐ธ Kuwait: +2 cases (now 64) ๐ธ Netherlands: +2 deaths (now 3) ๐ธ Norway: +1 cases (now 159) ๐ธ Washington, D.C., US: +1 c | 15:10 |
| yuriwho | LjL: that is true but herd immunity requires > 80% of population to have immunity | 15:12 |
| LjL | yuriwho, so it's only true if either a vaccine is developed, or >80% of the population is naturally immune to this? | 15:13 |
| yuriwho | yes, but spread will start slowing once a sizeable portion (>20%) is immune | 15:14 |
| python476 | what's the average recovery time btw ? | 15:14 |
| python476 | yuriwho: you're trained in epidemiology or just smart ? | 15:14 |
| yuriwho | I am a Ph.D. Chemical Biologist | 15:15 |
| python476 | yuriwho: lame. | 15:15 |
| python476 | just kidding | 15:15 |
| contingo | I don't know about that percentage, various estimates have been given attached to differing parameters of importance (seasonality, innate levels of human resistance or viral penetrance...). Also tapering doesn't entail eradication or preclude resurgence of a newly mutated strain, even a new annually recirculating viral disease | 15:16 |
| contingo | is a chemical biologist a biochemist or is there some distinction? | 15:17 |
| yuriwho | we do not know much about the human immune response to this virus so it's hard to predict much re the vaccines | 15:17 |
| python476 | I was searching for high voltage sanitizer on youtube | 15:17 |
| LjL | Apparently many people have managed to flee Lombardy before the quarantine was effectively in place, and now authorities are saying that people who came from the hotspot areas MUST (very stressed) stay home and call 112 and tell them they are coming from those areas | 15:17 |
| python476 | there's an epidemia of "diy sanitizer". Trending hard | 15:17 |
| JX7P | %cases Scotland | 15:18 |
| Brainstorm | JX7P: 3 lest ah googled (45 seconds ago) | 15:18 |
| python476 | https://youtu.be/S77hmlh6Fzw?t=169 <= self sanitizing user interfaces (surface plasma based) | 15:22 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +66 cases (now 107858), +1 recoveries (now 60726) ๐ถ UK: +64 cases (now 273) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Denmark: +8 cases (now 35) ๐ธ Hungary: +2 cases (now 7) ๐ธ Mainland China: +2 cases (now 80703), +1 recoveries (now 57333) | 15:23 |
| python476 | can't we make plasma generating thin film to replace FPP2 masks ? | 15:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:22 UTC: OPEC deal collapse sparks price war: '$20 oil in 2020 is coming': The news is a sudden U-turn from previous attempts to support the oil market as the new coronavirus hammers global demand. โ https://is.gd/82FgmI | 15:26 |
| TraderOne[m] | Are test kits from alibaba reliable? | 15:28 |
| LjL | TraderOne[m], i would assume "no" | 15:28 |
| python476 | they probably come infected | 15:28 |
| contingo | lol | 15:29 |
| TraderOne[m] | I don't think live virus would survive few days in transit | 15:30 |
| python476 | yeah unless it's express 2 days delivery | 15:30 |
| LjL | TraderOne[m], 1) why wouldn't you think that? 2) why would you trust something like a newly-developed test to be reliable as a home kit from alibaba? | 15:30 |
| python476 | amazon prime considered harmful | 15:30 |
| LjL | to be vevry straightforward, that's a crazy concept | 15:30 |
| LjL | TraderOne[m], here's a review study on how long various coronaviruses can survive on surfaces https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0195670120300463/ | 15:31 |
| LjL | wut, the Italian correspondent from London said the UK government is preparing to have 100k *dead* in the UK | 15:39 |
| contingo | as in, they prepared some contingency plan with that as their worse case scenario | 15:40 |
| python476 | it's good to over size problems a bit | 15:42 |
| LjL | contingo, yuriwho: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.04.20031104v1.full.pdf "We find that 1.6% (1.4-1.8) of individuals infected with COVID-19 during that period with orwithout symptoms died or will die, with even more important differences by age group than suggested by the rawdata. The probability of death among infected individuals with symptoms is estimated at 3.3% (2.9-3.8), with a steep increase over 60 years old to reach 36% over 80 | 15:42 |
| LjL | years old" | 15:42 |
| LjL | 36% is a considerably larger number than 15% | 15:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:35 UTC: Italy locks down a quarter of its population: Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte announced that Lombardy and a number of provinces in other regions were put under lockdown until April 3. โ https://is.gd/uFxZLl | 15:43 |
| sneep | LjL is still alive \o/ | 15:48 |
| LjL | sneep, and will likely remain so, but that does not comfort me a whole lot really | 15:48 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ Hubei, Mainland China: +13 recoveries (now 45235) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Denmark: +8 cases (now 35) ๐ธ Hong Kong, Hong Kong: +1 deaths (now 3) ๐ธ Hungary: +2 cases (now 7) ๐ธ Mainland China: +2 cases (now 80703), +1 recoveries (now 57333) ๐ธ Gansu, Mainland China: +4 | 15:50 |
| yuriwho | I had dinner with my niece (20) and nephew (24) last night, they both laughed it off as no big deal since they were young. I informed them that I was at risk being older and that some healthy young people have died from it too | 15:51 |
| _io_ | its annoying when people try to minimize it. real courage is to recognize a danger and still be unafraid. | 15:53 |
| _io_ | denial is not courage. it is foolishness. | 15:53 |
| TraderOne[m] | Courage is to fight fear | 15:54 |
| LjL | yuriwho, young people on TV were looking absurdly careless, and i can confirm that from seeing the park yesterday | 15:54 |
| swift110 | hey all | 15:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:55 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Grand Princess to disembark passengers; New Hampshire reports new cases โ https://is.gd/fInTMF | 16:01 |
| shotakoe1 | btw folks living in apartments may want to have closer look at how their AC / ventilation system is built | 16:04 |
| shotakoe1 | no idea / proof links on how it is possible to catch the virus from reused air, maybe someone knows | 16:05 |
| aradesh | just had my mum visit and she had a runny nose >:/ | 16:06 |
| aradesh | i hope i don't catch it | 16:06 |
| shotakoe1 | in my case there was a positive pressure of dry air from corridor, coming through the unit door and bringing humidity in the unit down to 28% all the time until I figured it | 16:07 |
| shotakoe1 | and also noticed that there is an air intake grid of my AC right next to the neighbour's exaust, so we often smell cig smoke or any junk she's cooking | 16:10 |
| shotakoe1 | possibly that dry air during about 2 years caused my tonsils to worsen, which led to tonsilectomy eventually | 16:11 |
| shotakoe1 | in case of respiratory illness, humidity level is important for healing | 16:11 |
| shotakoe1 | not speaking of possible (?) infection | 16:12 |
| shotakoe1 | sometimes it looks that services, goods and facilities are built to benefit everyone except the dude who pays for it | 16:13 |
| shotakoe1 | I sealed the f-n door (finaly) and getting humidity levels steady around 45%, which means there's little air exchange in the unit | 16:14 |
| shotakoe1 | mold is more likely to grow, but I don't care already.. | 16:14 |
| aradesh | mold is not coronavirus | 16:18 |
| aradesh | so its ok | 16:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:17 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Washington state weighs mandatory measures to contain outbreak โ https://is.gd/fInTMF | 16:18 |
| aradesh | :P | 16:18 |
| shotakoe1 | hopefully it won't combine :) | 16:21 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +17 cases (now 107877), +3 deaths (now 3656) ๐ธ Algeria: +1 cases (now 20) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Canada: +3 cases (now 63) ๐ธ Chile: +1 cases (now 8) ๐ธ Denmark: +8 cases (now 35) ๐ธ Hong Kong, Hong Kong: +1 deaths (now 3) ๐ธ Hungary: +2 cases (now 7) ๐ธ | 16:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 15:51 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: It should be noted that at this time there are more active cases outside of China (23,722) than there are in China (20,273) โ https://is.gd/IwMpGB | 16:53 |
| mefistofeles | nice stat there, also, nothing unexpected, of course | 16:54 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +29 cases (now 107906) ๐ถ US: +17 cases (now 464), +2 deaths (now 19) ๐ธ Algeria: +1 cases (now 20) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Canada: +3 cases (now 63) ๐ธ Chile: +1 cases (now 8) ๐ธ Denmark: +8 cases (now 35) ๐ธ Greece: +7 cases (now 73) ๐ธ Hong Kong, Hong | 16:57 |
| sneep | https://www.vox.com/2020/3/3/21161724/coronavirus-symptoms-covid-19-sars-cough-fever aradesh: Having a runny nose isn't a common Covid symptom according to this | 17:04 |
| mefistofeles | indeed ... โUnlike the coronavirus infections that cause the common cold, it is not usually associated with a runny nose.โ | 17:08 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +72 cases (now 107978) ๐ถ Westchester County, NY, US: +25 cases (now 82) ๐ถ Germany: +67 cases (now 1018) ๐ธ Algeria: +1 cases (now 20) ๐ธ Australia: +3 cases (now 80) ๐ธ New South Wales, Australia: +10 cases (now 38) ๐ธ Queensland, Australia: +2 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ Canada: +3 cases (now 63) ๐ธ Montreal, QC, Canada: +1 cases (now 4) ๐ธ Chile: +1 cases (now 8) | 17:11 |
| LjL | Brainstorm's updates are a bit too frequent again i think (not a good sign as far as the disease goes...) | 17:12 |
| LjL | i will probably change the +10 minimum limit to display an update to, i dunno, +30? | 17:12 |
| mefistofeles | so LjL , not sure if you answered and I missed it, how is the quarantine working there? I mean, you cannot leave the house at any cost? | 17:13 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, we can leave, but we can be questioned by police if found far from our residence, and will need to provide a valid reason to be, at least that's my current understanding, but i haven't left home today so... | 17:14 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: ok | 17:14 |
| mefistofeles | also, why would policemen leave their homes? ;) | 17:14 |
| LjL | heh | 17:14 |
| LjL | i think that counts as "essential work activities" as defined in the decree | 17:15 |
| LjL | importantly, they said most people *can* go to work | 17:15 |
| LjL | even though the decree "encourages" remote working in all cases where it's possible | 17:15 |
| LjL | but it doesn't mandate it, so, eh | 17:15 |
| mefistofeles | yes, I guess that's sane | 17:15 |
| mefistofeles | working from home when possible | 17:15 |
| mefistofeles | or not working at all | 17:15 |
| LjL | public transport is also still functioning | 17:15 |
| LjL | except for trains that would lead you outside the quarantine area, i assume | 17:16 |
| mefistofeles | ok | 17:18 |
| mefistofeles | that's also good, I guess | 17:18 |
| aradesh | sneep: yeah... but everyone might think i have it! | 17:19 |
| mefistofeles | aradesh: just wear a "I don't have covid-19" t-shirt | 17:20 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, well, it might be seen as a bit of an underreaction compared to what China did, i think. public transport may be needed by healthcare workers themselves, though | 17:20 |
| mefistofeles | they are selling like hell right now | 17:20 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: exactly, and I'm guessiong not all people can actually get supplies to stay at home for days/weeks, so they have to get out at some point | 17:21 |
| mefistofeles | guessing* | 17:21 |
| mefistofeles | tourists, exchange students, etc. | 17:21 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, yes, but i am not so sure about the appropriateness of letting everyone go to work. that may mean that public transport will be nearly as crowded as during normal times. the economy is important and everything, but my money won't be any use to me when i'm ddead | 17:21 |
| mefistofeles | darsie: heh, nice, I guess | 17:22 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: chances of dying are low anyways | 17:23 |
| sneep | darsie: don't get a vitamin overdose | 17:23 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, not for my parents, i wouldn't say so. | 17:23 |
| mefistofeles | and it just the less harmful situation, I guess | 17:23 |
| mefistofeles | *it's | 17:23 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: sure, I agree, but they cannot afford shutting everything down because of the vulnerable people, I guess. Specially when they can stay home and such. | 17:24 |
| darsie | sneep: I overdosed vitamin B12 a little, since otherwise it would last me >50 years. I reduced my dose now. | 17:24 |
| mefistofeles | I'm not even at my country right now, and I cannot afford buying that much food, so I take my chances :P | 17:25 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, it's been shown by now that i (or a child) are equally as likely to catch it than an 80 year old, just less likely to get serious consequences from it. so if i catch it by going to work, let's say, it's almost certain my parents will catch it since i live with them. and... uh, well, China did shut pretty much everything down, and they finally have it under control | 17:25 |
| LjL | saying we cannot take drastic measures "for vulnerable people" is something i cannot get on board with | 17:26 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, I think they are doing what they can, China could take more drastic measures, but youc annot even compare to China, no country can, tbh | 17:27 |
| mefistofeles | now, countries/governments should've foreseen this previously, that's true | 17:28 |
| mefistofeles | but it was also hard to prepare for it, even since it was first publicly known from China cases | 17:28 |
| LjL | if they could make the law they made (it's probably unconstitutional, but nobody's gonna question it in time), they could equally as easily make one that also said "no working except for essential services" | 17:28 |
| LjL | it wasn't hard to prepare for it. it was just unpopular for democracies | 17:28 |
| LjL | because if you are the government in a democratic system, and you take strong measures to contain it *in time*, and you are successful, then people will be like "what! nothing actually happened, but you stopped us from going to work, school, everything?! i will vote for the other party next time" | 17:29 |
| LjL | if you are successful, you fail (politically) | 17:29 |
| LjL | and i believe this is why you can see a striking contrast between, say, Singapore and Italy | 17:30 |
| LjL | Singapore government doesn't really have to worry about being re-elected | 17:30 |
| mefistofeles | I think it was hard, take Germany for example, they sent all this face masks and drugs to help the situation in China and now there's a shortage here, they didn't expect Europe/Italy to get it that fast | 17:30 |
| mefistofeles | and even then, Germany looks like it's doing a pretty good job at not letting people die | 17:30 |
| LjL | well, i expected it | 17:30 |
| LjL | maybe it's just sheer luck, but i was right and they were wrong | 17:30 |
| LjL | there is this data point | 17:30 |
| LjL | i'd say the *complete* lack of deaths in Germany is puzzling, i wouldn't go as far as saying it's due to them doing a good job, because unless their doctors are wizards, there's something that lacks an explanation | 17:31 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, you got lucky, imho, data outliers "get lucky" everytime, that's why people believe in all these conspiracy theories and such, because it happens you have a ergodic system and a LOT of sampling, so yeah, it will happen sooner or later. | 17:32 |
| LjL | except, it seems obvious to me it would happen, and it seems obvious now it will happen in more countries, and yet, those countries are STILL being slow to react | 17:32 |
| LjL | the situation is repeating itself | 17:32 |
| LjL | if you want you can go on saying "it couldn't be foreseen" for each and every country that eventually has a spike | 17:33 |
| mefistofeles | that's not really the case, it's just hard to react | 17:33 |
| LjL | but you'd be clearly wrong | 17:33 |
| python476 | finally finished https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/journal-plague-year-180965222/ fascinating | 17:33 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, even the people from TWIV expected it partly to this become a pandemia, 3-4 weeks ago or so, and they weren't even concerned about it | 17:33 |
| mefistofeles | s/to this/for this to/ | 17:34 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles meant to say: I mean, even the people from TWIV expected it partly for this to become a pandemia, 3-4 weeks ago or so, and they weren't even concerned about it | 17:34 |
| darsie | Would shutting down public transportation be effective? | 17:34 |
| mefistofeles | darsie: not if people have to move, still | 17:35 |
| darsie | Do they have to move? | 17:35 |
| mefistofeles | well, I guess they cannot afford to shut everything down, so yes, some of them would have to | 17:35 |
| darsie | Essential workers could move by other means. | 17:35 |
| mefistofeles | darsie: such as? | 17:36 |
| darsie | car, bike | 17:36 |
| darsie | foot | 17:36 |
| darsie | internet ;) | 17:36 |
| mefistofeles | maybe in some cities, not sure if Milan is suited for that, though | 17:36 |
| mefistofeles | I know USA is nowhere suited for that, for example | 17:36 |
| mefistofeles | and latin america even worse | 17:36 |
| darsie | Shutting down flights would have made a difference. | 17:37 |
| darsie | I'm sure Milan and USA have roads. | 17:38 |
| darsie | They might get congested, though. | 17:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Washington state weighs mandatory measures to contain outbreak โ https://is.gd/fInTMF | 17:44 |
| mefistofeles | https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/03/dont-panic-the-comprehensive-ars-technica-guide-to-the-coronavirus/#h1 this one looks interesting | 17:45 |
| LjL | darsie, denying all health workers who don't own a car of a bike the ability to work would be rather foolish, considering we're actually recalling doctors from retirement due to the sheer lack of enough of them now | 17:46 |
| LjL | also feel free to come to milan by car and try to find any parking... after the quarantine ends, in 2050 or so | 17:47 |
| aradesh | is it also effective to wash your face regularly? | 17:47 |
| darsie | LjL: They could take service cars, like military or taxi. Or public transportation could be limited to essential workers or other ppl with legitimate needs. | 17:47 |
| LjL | aradesh, certainly not with dirty hands :P | 17:48 |
| LjL | darsie, taxis are great ways to super-spread | 17:48 |
| darsie | aradesh: I take a shower every morning. | 17:48 |
| aradesh | well i'm thinking, maybe during the day you get germs on your face, and it might be good to wash them off before they get in your mouth, eyes, up your nose? | 17:49 |
| LjL | and besides darsie, rest assured that those who don't NEED to be taking public transport are already not taking it. last time i was on the metro, it was half empty, and all those who could were wearing masks, the rest trying to cover their mouth and nose with scarfs | 17:49 |
| darsie | I used my bum to open subway doors. | 17:50 |
| LjL | aradesh, maybe, but then the act of washing itself could make that happen. i don't know. i think i would be sure not to overdo it or your face may get too dry and then things are worse | 17:50 |
| aradesh | ok | 17:50 |
| LjL | our metro doors are kind enough to open automatically | 17:50 |
| darsie | Our new ones have buttons. The older ones have levers. | 17:51 |
| darsie | How fast does CV deactivate outside the body? | 17:52 |
| LjL | it's unknown, but probably depends on the type of surface it's one | 17:53 |
| LjL | on* | 17:53 |
| darsie | s/deactivate/destroy | 17:53 |
| Brainstorm | darsie meant to say: How fast does CV destroy outside the body? | 17:53 |
| LjL | there is a study about coronavirus viability times linked in the topic | 17:53 |
| LjL | it provides approximate durations for various previously-known coronaviruses | 17:53 |
| darsie | The analysis of 22 studies reveals that human coronaviruses such as Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) coronavirus, Middle East Respiratory Syndrome (MERS) coronavirus or endemic human coronaviruses (HCoV) can persist on inanimate surfaces like metal, glass or plastic for up to 9 days | 17:56 |
| darsie | I have 1 l 35% H2O2. Should I bother getting alcohol, or use diluted H2O2? | 17:57 |
| darsie | Austrians leader :) | 17:59 |
| darsie | รsterreichs Fรผhrer | 18:00 |
| LjL | darsie, if you *can* get alcohol, i'd get alcohol, but i don't think there's any reason hydrogen peroxide wouldn't disinfect things reasonably well... i had a link with disinfection rates for various agents and pathogens but damned if i find it now | 18:09 |
| mefistofeles | the ars technica url I just linked to has a formula, fwiw | 18:10 |
| darsie | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_sanitizer#Composition has two formulas. | 18:10 |
| mefistofeles | so we now have 3 :P | 18:11 |
| LjL | darsie, ah but actually the same paper that lists coronavirus viability on surfaces also lists agents to inactivate them, and how long they take to work | 18:11 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +198 cases (now 108184), +2 deaths (now 3658) ๐ถ France: +177 cases (now 1126) ๐ธ Brazil: +1 cases (now 20) ๐ธ Edmonton, Alberta, Canada: +2 cases (now 3) ๐ธ Egypt: +1 cases (now 49) ๐ธ Iraq: +2 deaths (now 6) ๐ธ Norway: +10 cases (now 169) ๐ธ Philippines: +4 cases (now 10) ๐ธ Qatar: +3 cases (now 15) ๐ธ Romania: +1 cases (now 15) ๐ธ US: +1 cases (now 466) | 18:14 |
| dunnp | My cousin took Caribbean cruise last Mon from Florida. Quarantined and conf by CDC to have Cornonavirus on Sat. They said he is day 5 with low viral counts, so sending home (plane to MI) with a mask & told to self quarantine at home. As of today, MI reported 0 conf cases. | 18:16 |
| dunnp | ^ from tiwtter | 18:17 |
| dunnp | wtf | 18:17 |
| dunnp | lets ship the sick people around so that we have an even distribution of disease | 18:17 |
| darsie | mefistofeles: Can't find the formula in that article. | 18:22 |
| pwr22 | !cases uk | 18:23 |
| mefistofeles | darsie: โefficiently inactivated by surface disinfection procedures with 62โ71 percent ethanol, 0.5 percent hydrogen peroxide, or 0.1 percent sodium hypochlorite (bleach) within 1 minute.โ in the "How does SARS-CoV-2 spread?" section, probably citing the same paper LjL was talking about | 18:24 |
| LjL | added arstechnica's guide | 18:25 |
| mefistofeles | cool, I think that's a good one | 18:25 |
| pwr22 | I failed trying to diy some handgel yesterday | 18:26 |
| pwr22 | I just made a sticky mess :D | 18:27 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 18:27 |
| pwr22 | That wasn't even a gel | 18:27 |
| pwr22 | Was fun though | 18:27 |
| mefistofeles | no colloidal active matter? ;) | 18:27 |
| pwr22 | Then I made COVID-19 Tracker Bot for matrix | 18:27 |
| pwr22 | mefistofeles: nope, I guess I'll get some aloe vera gel from somewhere | 18:28 |
| darsie | I stole some kind of hypochlorite tablets from a fountain year ago. Are they good for making sanitizer? | 18:33 |
| darsie | large white tablets | 18:33 |
| python476 | darsie: . | 18:34 |
| darsie | . | 18:34 |
| python476 | fun to see covid bringing people together | 18:34 |
| pwr22 | !cases italy | 18:34 |
| dunnp | no darsie | 18:34 |
| pwr22 | !cases us | 18:34 |
| dunnp | you dont want to put bleach on your hands | 18:34 |
| python476 | !toysr us | 18:34 |
| darsie | ok | 18:35 |
| mefistofeles | only on your eyes | 18:35 |
| mefistofeles | python476: how? where? | 18:35 |
| darsie | But isn't it used in swimming pools? | 18:35 |
| dunnp | darsie: yes but it is very dilute - 3-5ppm | 18:35 |
| pwr22 | Hmm, in terms of overall stats italy is doing better than the US ๐ฎ | 18:36 |
| Spec | in my country, it would seem coronavirus is a purely partisan issue | 18:36 |
| mefistofeles | no surprise there, tbh | 18:36 |
| Spec | is that true in other countries? | 18:36 |
| pwr22 | And it still stinks and burns your eyes | 18:36 |
| pwr22 | !cases china | 18:36 |
| Spec | pwr22: i used aloe vera gel and ethanol | 18:36 |
| pwr22 | !cases germany | 18:37 |
| pwr22 | That's my plan! | 18:37 |
| mefistofeles | and some vodka | 18:37 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +1502 cases (now 109686), +33 recoveries (now 60760) ๐ถ Italy: +1492 cases (now 7375), +33 recoveries (now 622) ๐ธ Brazil: +1 cases (now 20) ๐ธ Edmonton, Alberta, Canada: +2 cases (now 3) ๐ธ Egypt: +1 cases (now 49) ๐ธ Norway: +4 cases (now 173) ๐ธ Pakistan: +1 cases (now 7) ๐ธ Russia: +2 cases (now 17) ๐ธ US: +3 cases (now 469) ๐ธ Fort Bend County, TX, US: +3 cases (now 6) | 18:41 |
| pwr22 | !cases diamond | 18:43 |
| pwr22 | Woops, that's a divide by 0 | 18:43 |
| LjL | here is an italian-language informal paper warning that the growth of ICU cases fits an exponential curve very well and this week will see complete saturation of ICU beds https://cattiviscienziati.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Esponenziale-1.pdf | 18:49 |
| aradesh | china managed to slow it down though | 18:50 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: for the region/city or for the whole country? | 18:50 |
| pwr22 | China also managed to build hospitals in like a week | 18:51 |
| pwr22 | I'm not sure anywhere else can / is pulling that off? | 18:51 |
| pwr22 | I haven't really heard about us building any facilities to deal with it here in the UK ๐ | 18:51 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, no reason to think the rest of the country won't follow, since the curves are already spiking, but they aren't targeting a region in particular | 18:52 |
| aradesh | https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/coronavirus-vaccine-race-volunteers-to-be-infected-in-the-uk-ck0s72x8k | 18:53 |
| pwr22 | LjL: has Italy managed to setup any new facilities to augment the amount of beds to help with the virus? | 18:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 17:46 UTC: /u/slakmehl: BBC Breaking News su Twitter: "Italy coronavirus death toll soars by 133 in a day to 366, as millions adapt to widespread travel restrictions https://t.co/9CMyhEcU5X" โ https://is.gd/4d5KEV | 18:54 |
| LjL | pwr22, they are doing it, but obviously struggling | 18:54 |
| LjL | oh right, it's past toll update time :( | 18:54 |
| LjL | %cases italy | 18:54 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Italy, there are 7375 cases, 233 deaths (3.2% of cases), 622 recoveries as of Sun Mar 8 18:50:00 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 18:54 |
| LjL | but same number of deaths? | 18:55 |
| LjL | that's... suspect | 18:55 |
| LjL | apparently, no, there are 133 new deaths, which is... staggering | 18:56 |
| LjL | %wa (233+133)/7375 | 18:57 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Wolfram|Alpha ((233 + 133)/7375): Decimal approximation: 0.049627118644067796610169491525423728813559322033898305084... โ https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%28233%2B133%29%2F7375 | 18:57 |
| pwr22 | !cases italy | 18:57 |
| pwr22 | What's that calculate? | 18:58 |
| Birosso | %wa wolfram alpha | 18:58 |
| Brainstorm | Birosso, Wolfram|Alpha (Wolfram Alpha): Company information: name | Wolfram Alpha company type | privately held corporation status | active location | Champaign, Illinois, United States website | www.wolframalpha.com โ https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=wolfram+alpha | 18:58 |
| Birosso | Okay, that didn't return what I expected at all. | 18:59 |
| Birosso | Or maybe it did. | 18:59 |
| Birosso | pwr22 It's the percentage of total deaths of total infected. | 19:00 |
| pwr22 | Ah | 19:00 |
| Birosso | So assuming the data is correct, it used to be: | 19:00 |
| Birosso | %wa 233/7375 | 19:00 |
| Brainstorm | Birosso, Wolfram|Alpha (233/7375): Decimal approximation: 0.031593220338983050847457627118644067796610169491525423728... โ https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=233%2F7375 | 19:00 |
| Birosso | Now it's what you see above. | 19:01 |
| python476 | I find the covid event even more alarming politically than on other axis | 19:02 |
| python476 | I mean remember Dec 19 when.. nothing of that sort was remotely in peoples minds | 19:02 |
| python476 | how such a small bubble is causing globalism cardiac arrest | 19:03 |
| LjL | Birosso, well, no, it was higher, because it was less than 7375 cases before. but the result was 3.5%. so it just skyrocketed to 5% somehow | 19:04 |
| LjL | it was already much higher than expected | 19:04 |
| LjL | i don't know when it's planning to stop rising | 19:04 |
| Birosso | LjL, didn't you just say deaths stayed the same but infected increased? | 19:04 |
| Birosso | Oh. | 19:04 |
| Birosso | IGNORE EVERYTHING I SAID TODAY! | 19:05 |
| LjL | Birosso, initially, because the data had deaths missing | 19:05 |
| Spec | hello Birosso | 19:05 |
| Birosso | Meanwvhile in my university, in which 23% of students are from China, it's business as usual. | 19:05 |
| Birosso | Warning material has been distributed and certain restrictions on conferences have been implanted, but lectures and such are still going. | 19:06 |
| Birosso | HI SPEC! | 19:06 |
| Birosso | It's a good thing nothing more I need to attend. Not because of Corona, but because lectures are so boring. | 19:07 |
| LjL | Spec, meanwhile my sister is here because she somehow locked herself outside of her apartment after meeting her boyfriend and... i don't even. how do i spell "STAY THE HELL AT HOME" to her | 19:07 |
| Spec | Birosso: stay safe :) | 19:07 |
| Birosso | Spec: Easier said than done. :) | 19:07 |
| Spec | LjL: i'm not sure you'll get through to her, it would seem | 19:07 |
| LjL | she puts herself at risk, and my parents too by coming here | 19:08 |
| Birosso | Italian stubbornness. Reminds me of Egypt. | 19:08 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +21 cases (now 109707), +141 deaths (now 3799) ๐ถ Italy: +133 deaths (now 366) ๐ธ Brazil: +1 cases (now 20) ๐ธ Canada: +1 cases (now 64) ๐ธ Edmonton, Alberta, Canada: +2 cases (now 3) ๐ธ Egypt: +1 cases (now 49) ๐ธ Finland: +1 cases (now 24) ๐ธ France: +8 deaths (now 19) ๐ธ Iraq: +6 cases (now 60) ๐ธ Ireland: +2 cases (now 21) ๐ธ Latvia: +1 cases (now 3) ๐ธ Luxembourg: +1 cases (now 5) ๐ธ Portuga | 19:08 |
| LjL | well, i guess now it fixed the deaths | 19:08 |
| aradesh | :/ | 19:08 |
| aradesh | so many | 19:08 |
| aradesh | why are people stockpiling toilet roll? | 19:08 |
| aradesh | because they think they'll be stuck inside for months? | 19:09 |
| python476 | yes | 19:09 |
| python476 | and basic hygiene stuff is stupidly critical I guess | 19:09 |
| Spec | months is a long time | 19:10 |
| Birosso | This continent (Europe) used to be highly-dependent on newspapers for that purpose. | 19:10 |
| Birosso | Crazy how things change, huh? | 19:10 |
| pwr22 | I feel like there's a bit of a herd mentality around the toilet roll thing | 19:10 |
| Birosso | There are parts of the world where toilet rolls aren't on anyone's mind. | 19:11 |
| azy | should we store water? | 19:12 |
| Birosso | I drink tap water. | 19:12 |
| azy | yeah i mean containers, to store tap water | 19:12 |
| Birosso | You expect running water to be affected by this? | 19:12 |
| azy | ive no idea | 19:12 |
| Birosso | I mean, not in terms of contamination. I don't know anything about that. But the flow. | 19:13 |
| azy | i store food, but no water | 19:13 |
| Birosso | Where do you live? | 19:13 |
| azy | england | 19:13 |
| Birosso | And do you normally drink tap water? | 19:14 |
| Birosso | Or are you fine with drinking it? | 19:14 |
| azy | i filter it, but yeah im fine with tap water | 19:14 |
| Birosso | Then I would say storing water is not at all necessary. | 19:14 |
| Birosso | If things deteriorate to a point where running water... stops running. | 19:14 |
| Birosso | We would have far bigger problems at that point. | 19:15 |
| Birosso | What's the situation like in England, though? Are a lot of people doing what you're doing? | 19:15 |
| Birosso | I mean storing, preparing for the worst? | 19:15 |
| azy | im not sure what would have to occur, but a few containers would have me not reliant upon externalities for water | 19:16 |
| azy | erm, we're bulk buying toilet roll apparently | 19:16 |
| Birosso | I can't stop laughing at this. | 19:17 |
| LjL | Birosso, there are parts of the world that have bidets, although it appears that maybe this virus will be exterminating them | 19:17 |
| Birosso | LjL, wait. | 19:17 |
| aradesh | i only have 9 toilet rolls. that won't last me long | 19:17 |
| azy | a roll lasts me like a month | 19:18 |
| Birosso | LjL | 19:18 |
| aradesh | toilet rolls last me ages, when i mostly use the toilet at work | 19:18 |
| Birosso | May I post an Amazon link here/ | 19:18 |
| Spec | LjL: concidence? i think not | 19:18 |
| aradesh | but if i was stuck at home all day... | 19:18 |
| LjL | water and electricity weren't suspended in Wuhan. i don't see why they would be | 19:18 |
| LjL | Birosso, i suppose so | 19:18 |
| Birosso | https://www.amazon.de/Fdit-Persรถnliche-tragbarem-Handreise-Bidet-Kapazitรคt/dp/B07DG2V6PD/ref=sr_1_16?__mk_de_DE=ร Mร ลฝรร&keywords=intimpflege+wasser&qid=1583691496&s=drugstore&sr=1-16 | 19:18 |
| Birosso | This thing is a life-saver. | 19:18 |
| Birosso | Bidet or not. | 19:19 |
| Birosso | Don't worry. Contrary to what its appearance might suggest at first glance, there is no insertion involved. | 19:19 |
| Birosso | The final picture to the left is particularly instructive. | 19:20 |
| azy | seems like you'd blast shit everywhere, and still need toilet roll | 19:21 |
| LjL | Birosso, i'm going to assume your original country also has bidets then. | 19:22 |
| Birosso | LjL, not bidets, but jets built into the toilet. | 19:22 |
| Birosso | azy, no it's quite handy. | 19:22 |
| LjL | Birosso, ah right, i read about that | 19:22 |
| azy | how do you dry? | 19:22 |
| LjL | dedicated towels | 19:22 |
| Birosso | Yaes. | 19:22 |
| Birosso | You can also use toilet paper | 19:22 |
| Birosso | but then it's just optional. | 19:22 |
| Birosso | It's definitely better with toilet paper/towels, but | 19:23 |
| Birosso | you're not as reliant on them. | 19:23 |
| Birosso | If the jet is strong enough, it's not absolutely necessary to dry afterwards. You can just... wait it out. | 19:23 |
| LjL | yeah it's not like we normally *don't* use toilet paper. it just feels pretty eww to me to think of leaving the bathroom without using the bidet. i've mentioned this before to Americans or other people who don't have bidets, and sometimes they've said "i just time it so i take a shower right afterwards". that seems... fine, if you're so very good at timing it? | 19:24 |
| Birosso | In any case, I think it would be safe to say without further investigation that you would end up with fewer, uh, poop particles left on your exterior skin than with other methods that don't involve water. | 19:24 |
| Birosso | Riiiiiiight... shower afterwards. | 19:24 |
| Birosso | Got it. | 19:24 |
| underscore | Hi. I have a bidet, too! | 19:25 |
| Birosso | Do you not have any of these built-in jets in Italy, LjL? | 19:25 |
| Birosso | They're really very convenient. | 19:25 |
| Birosso | Welcome to the club. | 19:25 |
| LjL | Birosso, to be fair, based on papers i've read about the coronavirus and toilets, those particles are probably more likely to end up where you'll breathe them with a bidet, though ;( although they manage just fine even with just the flush toilet, apparently | 19:25 |
| LjL | Birosso, no, the only time i've seen one was a hotel with a very small bathroom where a bidet didn't fit | 19:26 |
| Birosso | Was it better or worse than a bidet? | 19:26 |
| LjL | underscore, yes, greece and partly spain are pretty much the other EU countries that use them | 19:26 |
| Birosso | I just looked up the issue... | 19:26 |
| Birosso | https://nypost.com/2018/04/13/airplane-toilets-might-soon-come-with-a-trendy-butt-spray/ | 19:26 |
| Birosso | "Trendy butt spray" | 19:26 |
| Birosso | BAHAHAHAAH | 19:26 |
| LjL | Birosso, i don't remember very well, but it felt kinda worse | 19:26 |
| LjL | it might just not have been good, though | 19:26 |
| LjL | Birosso, this must be good https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/Wireless_toilet_control_panel_w._open_lid.jpg | 19:27 |
| Birosso | My favourite are the hand-held ones, actually. | 19:27 |
| Birosso | Unnecessary. | 19:27 |
| Birosso | https://i.ytimg.com/vi/6OSDKHiwZm8/hqdefault.jpg | 19:28 |
| Birosso | This thing. | 19:28 |
| Birosso | Wow, I just read the text on the image. | 19:28 |
| Birosso | That's even worse than butt spray. | 19:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:21 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Washington state weighs mandatory measures to contain outbreak โ https://is.gd/fInTMF | 19:29 |
| dunnp | never used a bidet | 19:31 |
| Birosso | I commend your bravery in coming forward. | 19:32 |
| LjL | Birosso, i think in India and some other countries it's more common to have a "shower head" similar to that, attached to the toilet | 19:32 |
| LjL | Birosso, basically we all use water-based butt cleaning except for "the west", if you consider countries like Italy to be closer to yours than to the west :P | 19:32 |
| Birosso | Probably the same thing. It's just semantics at this point. | 19:32 |
| Birosso | I do, I very much do. | 19:32 |
| Birosso | Italy is the closest European country to Egypt that I can think of. | 19:33 |
| Birosso | In both good and bad ways. | 19:33 |
| LjL | Birosso, i can't say i feel closer to Egypt than to France or Spain, though... | 19:39 |
| LjL | mind, i mostly feel close to people on the internet who aren't complete assholes. it kind of transcends country. | 19:39 |
| Birosso | LjL | 19:40 |
| Birosso | Do you mean YOU can't | 19:40 |
| Birosso | or are are you talking about Italy? | 19:40 |
| LjL | i can't, but i also suspect most other italians would say the same | 19:40 |
| LjL | added mostly a few Italy-specific links | 19:40 |
| Birosso | Well, that doesn't surprise me. But then again | 19:41 |
| Birosso | how much do "other Italians" know of Egypt? | 19:41 |
| Birosso | I mean, I don't know that much about Italy, but I have spoken with Italian people before. | 19:41 |
| Birosso | Both over the internet and back in Alexandria. | 19:41 |
| Birosso | And we've had lengthy conversations about this and other subjects. | 19:42 |
| LjL | Birosso, they probably don't know very much at all... which doesn't help making them feel any closer | 19:42 |
| Birosso | The point I'm trying to make is, someone who has lived in one country a whole life might view the world differently from someone who has been around, might overlook a few things or fail to view certain things... at a fundamental level. | 19:42 |
| LjL | Birosso, when i've talked to spaniards, that's when i've been like "sure, exactly the same here" the most, instead of "oh, really? that's weird". fwiw. | 19:43 |
| LjL | but i haven't really talked to that many people | 19:44 |
| Birosso | Oh, I am realising now that once again I wasn't reading very carefully. | 19:44 |
| Birosso | I thought we were talking about the issue of whether Egypt is at all similar to Italy. | 19:45 |
| Birosso | Not whether Spain or... whatever you mentioned above is closer. | 19:45 |
| LjL | Birosso, i am talking about perceptions. actual similarities, i don't feel i have the knowledge to say anything about | 19:45 |
| Birosso | Anyway, let's not continue this conversation here, if at all. I feel like we might be potentially bothering someone by going off topic. | 19:46 |
| LjL | okay | 19:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:45 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Oregon declares emergency; Washington state weighs mandatory measures to contain outbreak โ https://is.gd/fInTMF | 19:47 |
| LjL | i am... extremely tense, even after taking some benzos | 19:49 |
| LjL | Birosso, https://twitter.com/epsilon3141/status/1236007745297539074 maybe you understand this better than i do, but i'm scared even without understanding it | 19:51 |
| LjL | also, https://twitter.com/Renegade_Masta/status/1236054340923797509 | 19:52 |
| Birosso | LjL, you see the dotted line? It's a projected trend based on the data up to day 61. | 19:54 |
| Birosso | You can see how the trend is much steeper now with the two new data points added. | 19:54 |
| LjL | i see. R1 and R2 are possible factors that determine how steep the curve will be? | 19:55 |
| Birosso | No, no. | 19:55 |
| Birosso | They are an indication of how, uh, easy it is to explain the correlation between the dependent and independent variables. | 19:56 |
| Birosso | You can just ignore it completely here. | 19:56 |
| Birosso | For more on that, look up "Regression analaysis R squared value." | 19:56 |
| LjL | i'll pass for now | 19:57 |
| LjL | i think i'd like to just switch off my brain for the next, i don't know, two months | 19:57 |
| LjL | optimistically | 19:57 |
| LjL | Birosso, yesterday i was banned from r/italy for complaining that they had removed and locked the threat that talked about the quarantine. then, i posted about in on r/coronavirus and it was also removed, on the ground that it "had already been posted", except the previous posts were all somehow relegated so low they wouldn't be seen by anyone. also i tweeted about it, and mysteriously my tweets went from a normal, say, 100 to 300 views (1000 when there's | 19:59 |
| LjL | a big earthquake), to one or two, or zero | 19:59 |
| Timvde | LjL: Oh snap, today's numbers in Italy | 20:01 |
| LjL | Timvde, really :( | 20:01 |
| Timvde | Any statistics on the demographics? | 20:03 |
| LjL | Timvde, yeah, off the top of my head, average age of dead was 81. that number's from some days ago though. i have more data. | 20:04 |
| jiffe | average or median? | 20:05 |
| pwr22 | !cases italy | 20:05 |
| LjL | well, or i would if i could find the press release again | 20:05 |
| pwr22 | Huh, the death rate has gone up quite a bit | 20:05 |
| pwr22 | !cases china | 20:06 |
| LjL | yeah | 20:06 |
| Timvde | Yea, 133 deaths today | 20:06 |
| pwr22 | The recovery rate in china is promising at least | 20:06 |
| LjL | Timvde, for starters, i have this press release containing some demography data, which is... ridiculous https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iss.it%2Fen%2Fcomunicati-stampa%2F-%2Fasset_publisher%2FfjTKmjJgSgdK%2Fcontent%2Fid%2F5288119%3F_com_liferay_asset_publisher_web_portlet_AssetPublisherPortlet_INSTANCE_fjTKmjJgSgdK_redirect%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.iss.it%252Fcomunicati-stampa%253Fp_p_id%253Dcom_liferay_asset_publishe | 20:07 |
| LjL | r_web_portlet_AssetPublisherPortlet_INSTAN | 20:07 |
| LjL | ugh i did it again | 20:07 |
| LjL | how about https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iss.it%2Fen%2Fcomunicati-stampa%2F-%2Fasset_publisher%2FfjTKmjJgSgdK%2Fcontent%2Fid%2F5288119&sandbox=1 | 20:07 |
| Timvde | Sorry, this URL is invalid | 20:08 |
| Timvde | !cases world | 20:09 |
| LjL | Timvde, the first one was cut off, use the second one | 20:09 |
| Timvde | %cases world | 20:09 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +36 cases (now 109743), +1 deaths (now 3800) ๐ธ Brazil: +1 cases (now 20) ๐ธ Canada: +1 cases (now 64) ๐ธ Edmonton, Alberta, Canada: +2 cases (now 3) ๐ธ Egypt: +1 cases (now 49), +1 deaths (now 1) ๐ธ Finland: +1 cases (now 24) ๐ธ France: +8 deaths (now 19) ๐ธ Germany: +22 cases (now 1040) ๐ธ Iraq: +6 cases (now 60) ๐ธ Ireland: +2 cases (now 21) ๐ธ Norway: +1 cases (now 174) ๐ธ Spain: +12 cases (now 6 | 20:09 |
| LjL | Timvde, and also, more demography, this https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=it&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iss.it%2Fen%2Fcomunicati-stampa%2F-%2Fasset_publisher%2FfjTKmjJgSgdK%2Fcontent%2Fid%2F5286166 | 20:09 |
| Timvde | oh, it was just slow | 20:09 |
| Brainstorm | Timvde: In all areas, World, there are 109743 cases, 3800 deaths (3.5% of cases), 60760 recoveries as of Sun Mar 8 20:03:11 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. | 20:09 |
| Brainstorm | Timvde: Mortality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.2% (assuming deaths/cases with โ of cases undetected), and less than 5.9% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 20:09 |
| Timvde | ljl: yes, the second one | 20:09 |
| LjL | Timvde, retry, it works for me... | 20:09 |
| Timvde | Oh. Oops | 20:10 |
| Timvde | My bad, weechat stuff :p | 20:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 19:11 UTC: Coronavirus: NHS will get whatever it needs, says chancellor: The chancellor says he is also considering more support for businesses and individuals in an epidemic. โ https://is.gd/tViYeG | 20:22 |
| Tangent-Man[m] | !cases uk | 20:30 |
| Tangent-Man[m] | !cases italy | 20:30 |
| twomoons | hi ljl | 20:31 |
| LjL | hi | 20:34 |
| twomoons | do you think anyone escaped the quarantine and headed south? | 20:35 |
| zirpu[m] | i'm flying to Houston, Tx tomorrow for a funeral. i sure hope I don't end up in quarantine when I get back to Seattle, WA. | 20:35 |
| LjL | twomoons, yes | 20:38 |
| Birosso | azy, have you seen this cartoon the bot just linked? :D | 20:38 |
| zirpu[m] | shopping in costco the other day it seems relevant. :-\ | 20:39 |
| azy | lmao | 20:39 |
| Birosso | Why toilet paper? Of all things, why toilet paper? | 20:39 |
| azy | i would never have thought of stocking up on toilet roll. total luxury item | 20:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:34 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Oregon declares emergency; Washington state weighs mandatory measures to contain outbreak โ https://is.gd/fInTMF | 20:39 |
| zirpu[m] | ppl are shitty. ;-) | 20:39 |
| Birosso | I'm just trying to find out whether people are being manipulated into buying them by someone(s) who stands to make a profit, or if this is a cultural thing, or whatever it may be. | 20:40 |
| Birosso | Of all things... toilet rolls! I can't stop laughing. | 20:40 |
| zirpu[m] | it's one of those things you don't want to run out of, at least in the US. | 20:40 |
| zirpu[m] | i bought a huge thing of TP and papertowels 2 years ago at costco, still haven't run out. :-) | 20:41 |
| twomoons | i don't get the rush for TP | 20:41 |
| zirpu[m] | panic buying. ice cream is probably all sold out too. | 20:43 |
| jiffe | I'd rather run out of TP than ice cream :) | 20:45 |
| zirpu[m] | papertowels have more use. the can be used as coffee filters, or even made into masks. | 20:46 |
| twomoons | tp is maybe for entertaining guests | 20:46 |
| ryouma | it probably started in one place, which might bea cultural thing, and then maybe others took up the idea, or it is just the first non-perishable that comes to mind | 20:46 |
| twomoons | you don't wanna be locked down having guests over and not have TP | 20:47 |
| ryouma | in war zones, supposedly bathtub stoppers go | 20:47 |
| zirpu[m] | i'm guessing it's from the prepper culture. | 20:47 |
| twomoons | i bet people are planning on extended lockdown and gonna have family bbqs and other events | 20:47 |
| twomoons | need TP for those | 20:47 |
| ryouma | we will get loads of nonsensical papers writing about it | 20:47 |
| twomoons | lol | 20:47 |
| zirpu[m] | the flying saucers are using their mindcontrol beams to make people buy more TP. they own the companies. :-) | 20:47 |
| ryouma | tp symbolizes the (long word the author does not understand) (another long word) (more long words) of the (ideological dogmatic word) etc. | 20:48 |
| zirpu[m] | terrible theories, i've got them. | 20:48 |
| zirpu[m] | i recall there was some ML thing that generated "research" papers that were actually accepted by some publishers. | 20:48 |
| ryouma | yes | 20:48 |
| twomoons | i guess many PhDs in economics will be granted after researching the TP run | 20:49 |
| ryouma | also sokal and sokal squared | 20:49 |
| zirpu[m] | yes, that was it. thanks! | 20:49 |
| ryouma | you can clean stuff up with tp too | 20:50 |
| ryouma | those were not ai | 20:50 |
| ryouma | there was an ai thing though | 20:50 |
| ryouma | wasn't as famous | 20:50 |
| twomoons | maybe ppl use TP to clean their glasses | 20:50 |
| aradesh | international womans day... violence...erm... :P | 20:58 |
| mefistofeles | wtf? | 20:59 |
| aradesh | was just refering to the notice from the bot | 20:59 |
| aradesh | which is apparently on the coronavirus stream | 20:59 |
| LjL | guardian makes some interesting connections sometimes | 21:02 |
| twomoons | i with they would put Rome on lockdown too just preemptively | 21:03 |
| twomoons | the streets are already becoming empty as it is | 21:03 |
| aradesh | %covid uk | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | aradesh: In all areas, UK, there are 273 cases, 2 deaths (0.7% of cases), 18 recoveries as of Sun Mar 8 15:23:10 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=UK for time series data. | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | aradesh: Mortality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.2% (assuming deaths/cases with โ of cases undetected), and less than 9.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 21:08 |
| twomoons | %covid it | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | twomoons: In all areas, Italy, there are 7375 cases, 366 deaths (5.0% of cases), 622 recoveries as of Sun Mar 8 19:03:04 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 21:09 |
| twomoons | so do we need to add back in the recovered and dead? | 21:10 |
| twomoons | should it be 366/(7375+366+622) ? | 21:10 |
| twomoons | that would be 4.37%, vs. ~5% | 21:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 20:07 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Shimon Prokupecz su Twitter: "Approaching 500 - There are 496 cases of the novel coronavirus in the United States, according to the state and local health agencies, governments and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention." โ https://is.gd/enYytN | 21:12 |
| tinwhiskers | twomoons: then you'd be double-counting those people. The number dead from the number infected is the correct approach at the end of an epidemic but during an epidemic it has problems with the lag time between infection and death. | 21:15 |
| tinwhiskers | There's no easy solution without detailed cases data so you kinda just have to live with it. | 21:16 |
| twomoons | so 7375 includes dead ppl? | 21:16 |
| tinwhiskers | They were counted in the 7375 number before they died. You don't want to add them in again when they die. | 21:16 |
| twomoons | oh ok | 21:17 |
| twomoons | i think you overexplained it to me lol | 21:17 |
| twomoons | and made me more confused momentarily | 21:17 |
| tinwhiskers | Sorry :-) | 21:17 |
| twomoons | i just can't believe the 5% figure | 21:17 |
| twomoons | that seems utterly absurd | 21:17 |
| tinwhiskers | And you shouldn't | 21:17 |
| twomoons | it doesn't jive with how the US is responding to it | 21:18 |
| twomoons | US is still not taking it very seriously and treating it as kinda like a bad flu | 21:18 |
| twomoons | like a 0.5% death rate or something | 21:18 |
| tinwhiskers | That seems pretty low | 21:18 |
| tinwhiskers | Actually in Italy a death rate of 5% might not be far from true | 21:19 |
| twomoons | we don't know the age statistics | 21:20 |
| twomoons | but if it infected an retirement home or something i could see that | 21:20 |
| tinwhiskers | We do broadly. it's got quite an old population | 21:20 |
| twomoons | but we saw in the US how it went undetected in washington and first reared its head at a elderly care facility | 21:21 |
| tinwhiskers | Average age in Italy is 45 and 38 in the US | 21:21 |
| twomoons | oh wow | 21:21 |
| tinwhiskers | There was no testing done so it's not surprising they didn't find any | 21:22 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +43 cases (now 109814) ๐ธ Czech Republic: +5 cases (now 31) ๐ธ Israel: +4 cases (now 29) ๐ธ Poland: +3 cases (now 11) ๐ธ Spain: +30 cases (now 673) ๐ธ Tunisia: +1 cases (now 2) | 21:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:20 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Oregon declares emergency; Washington state weighs mandatory measures to contain outbreak โ https://is.gd/fInTMF | 21:25 |
| ryouma | i am really skeptical about these numbers. where i live there are almost no test kits period and nobody is being tested. it seems implausible that the cases are remotely as low as the numbers being reported. | 21:43 |
| ryouma | somebody pleasec orrect | 21:43 |
| ryouma | if this is poor reasoning | 21:43 |
| tinwhiskers | ryouma: where's that? | 21:44 |
| darsie | I wasn't tested because I didn't have cv symptoms. | 21:44 |
| ryouma | us sw state | 21:44 |
| Birosso | That's sensible. The numbers aren't projections or predictions (these ones aren't at least). | 21:44 |
| Birosso | So the only "numbers" you'll see are confirmed cases. | 21:44 |
| Birosso | And not every single human on earth is being tested every day. | 21:44 |
| tinwhiskers | ryouma: yeah, it's probably a lot higher then :-) | 21:44 |
| Birosso | So yes, the reported numbers are almost certainly lower than the actual number of people infected, but that applies to everywhere. | 21:45 |
| ryouma | low average age could be even worse if it means yong folk don't take it seriously and go out and get infected and bring it back? | 21:45 |
| Birosso | To varying degrees. | 21:45 |
| tinwhiskers | ryouma: maybe | 21:45 |
| ryouma | rhetorical quesiton: what can i asy to my gf to only do shopping, and get some supplies? she works at home but isn ot taking it seriously. (i am bedridden with many health conditions including lung, will get it if she does) | 21:46 |
| _io_ | we have NO IDEA how many are infected. | 21:46 |
| tinwhiskers | Well we do have some idea | 21:46 |
| _io_ | wait I don't understand. what do you want her to do or not do, ryouma? | 21:46 |
| ryouma | take more prcautiosn to not get infected | 21:47 |
| ryouma | she is not young either | 21:47 |
| _io_ | "I would like if you would please take more precautions to not get infected" | 21:48 |
| _io_ | ? | 21:48 |
| ryouma | also if she gets it adn goes to hospital, i die -- no food. and if i get it i die -- cannot go to hospital for health reasons. | 21:48 |
| ryouma | i don'tthink she would listen | 21:49 |
| _io_ | hum. get more food if you can. | 21:49 |
| _io_ | why doesn't she listen ryouma? | 21:50 |
| ryouma | just her nature | 21:50 |
| _io_ | oh. time for a new gf :( | 21:51 |
| ryouma | "highly attractive man seeks new gf. bedridden. really like long walks under moonlight but cannot do. must watch moonlight on videos." | 21:52 |
| ryouma | "must be hygienic" | 21:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit WorldNews Live at 20:51 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Ten die at collapsed China quarantine hotel โ https://is.gd/K6gUKv | 21:53 |
| ryouma | do hotels really collapse that frequently | 21:53 |
| _io_ | ryouma I wouldn't eliminate a potential partner just due to being physically disabled. a lot of girls wouldn't. | 21:53 |
| ryouma | srsly? | 21:54 |
| _io_ | you might be surprised. we are not all trifling hoes lol. | 21:54 |
| _io_ | yes srsly | 21:54 |
| ryouma | introduce me :) | 21:54 |
| ryouma | it requires taking care of me -- bringing me food cleaning etc. | 21:55 |
| tinwhiskers | ryouma: it seems there's about one multi-storey building collapsing in China each year, roughly. | 21:55 |
| ryouma | hmm | 21:55 |
| _io_ | oh. you don't have a care taker. well that is more than a gf isn't it. | 21:55 |
| _io_ | I don't think I'm ready for that responsibility. but we could hang out and watch Netflix and cuddle and stuff maybe. | 21:56 |
| ryouma | yeah, used to have one but gf too busy to find another. but gf never cleans ever. so kinda a lot of dust. | 21:56 |
| _io_ | I mean if we got along and are compatible like geographically and politically.and everything. | 21:57 |
| ryouma | right | 21:57 |
| _io_ | why don't you find another | 21:57 |
| _io_ | why is this all your gfs Job do you pay her? | 21:57 |
| ryouma | i am too sick to do the ad, interviewing, etc.; she is too busy; she is keepign me alive and i am certainly grateful; we are trying to get a helper but has not occurred. | 21:59 |
| _io_ | you're not too sick..I can see that by how much you chat. by the way you can do the interview on IRC or some other tool like it. | 22:00 |
| ryouma | occasional messages on irc to the apparent contrary notwithstanding | 22:00 |
| _io_ | your messages on IRC aren't occasional. | 22:00 |
| _io_ | you've written way more than an ad worth of content. you've chatted here this afternoon enough that you could have done an interview. | 22:01 |
| _io_ | I think you should take control of your own fate ryouma. | 22:01 |
| _io_ | do you want help? | 22:02 |
| _io_ | I'll proofread and edit any ad you write. | 22:02 |
| ryouma | i'd rather not go into health details. i agree it looks possible. i agree with the concept of control of own fate. it was my error to allow the conversation to get to this point. eerything i do requires significant recovery. and what you see really is misleading. | 22:02 |
| _io_ | I don't want you to die if your gf has a bad day or something ryouma. | 22:03 |
| _io_ | try to get more people ok. | 22:03 |
| ryouma | kind of you. ad is written however; it is going through responses etc. that is ont possible for gf much less me. | 22:03 |
| _io_ | what are your disabilities? where do you live? | 22:04 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ World: +58 cases (now 109872), +1 deaths (now 3802) ๐ธ Argentina: +3 cases (now 12) ๐ธ Brazil: +5 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Czech Republic: +5 cases (now 31) ๐ธ Iceland: +3 cases (now 58) ๐ธ Israel: +14 cases (now 39) ๐ธ Maldives: +2 cases (now 4) ๐ธ Norway: +1 cases (now 176) ๐ธ Poland: +3 cases (now 11) ๐ธ Spain: +30 cases (now 673) ๐ธ Tunisia: +1 cases (now 2) ๐ธ US: +13 cases (now 497), +1 deaths (now 21) ๐ธ | 22:05 |
| ryouma | no clue what to do to get more people. would like a real support network. but there are many intersecting impossibilities that to even describe wuld take toom uch out of me. also rsi inhibits this conversation right now. i appreciate your concern. i just don't any solutions, and would come across like i am rejecting solutions if you suggewted them, du to the intersecting impossibilities. | 22:06 |
| LjL | he did say he didn't want to get into the details of his health situation, i think we should respect that | 22:18 |
| _io_ | oh sorry | 22:19 |
| _io_ | ryouma you should pm me and come to my channel. | 22:20 |
| _io_ | pm if your interested. | 22:20 |
| python476 | https://www.dpz.eu/en/home/single-view/news/die-vermehrung-von-sars-coronavirus-2-im-menschen-verhindern.html | 22:32 |
| LjL | well... we're certainly primates, i can only say that much | 22:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Oregon declares emergency; Washington state weighs mandatory measures to contain outbreak โ https://is.gd/fInTMF | 22:33 |
| twomoons | ljl did you get another one of your posts erased? | 22:37 |
| twomoons | in the reddit amazon group? | 22:38 |
| LjL | uh? my post on r/amazon got erased? | 22:38 |
| twomoons | oh maybe your post had no body | 22:38 |
| twomoons | nevermind | 22:38 |
| ubLIX | just throwing this at LjL in case it's something not already seen: https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19 | 22:40 |
| LjL | twomoons, my post has a body the way i see it from here | 22:42 |
| LjL | ubLIX, thanks, no, i wasn't aware | 22:42 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers make want to integrate that data, if not, i will probably do it on my bot | 22:42 |
| python476 | ionizing ? | 22:44 |
| LjL | talk about overkill | 22:44 |
| python476 | oh electric dispenser | 22:44 |
| LjL | maybe you should clean that mold on the sink instead :P | 22:45 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ US: +33 cases (now 517), +1 deaths (now 21) ๐ธ Argentina: +3 cases (now 12) ๐ธ Brazil: +5 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Toronto, ON, Canada: +1 cases (now 28) ๐ธ Czech Republic: +5 cases (now 31) ๐ธ Finland: +1 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Gibraltar: +1 recoveries (now 1) ๐ธ Iceland: +3 cases (now 58) ๐ธ India: +3 cases (now 43) ๐ธ Israel: +14 cases (now 39) ๐ธ Maldives: +2 cases (now 4) ๐ธ Norway: +1 cases (now 176) ๐ธ Poland: | 22:45 |
| python476 | I wanted to make a plasma sanitizer | 22:45 |
| python476 | brb | 22:45 |
| python476 | ant invasion | 22:45 |
| LjL | also i would lol at the electric... setup... but mine isn't much better. UK people would scream at seeing that | 22:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:41 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 500 as Oregon joins list of states declaring emergencies โ https://is.gd/fInTMF | 22:47 |
| twomoons | ljl i don't see a body | 23:14 |
| twomoons | it says '[removed]' | 23:14 |
| LjL | well that's great | 23:14 |
| twomoons | 'Site to periodically.....keywords?' | 23:14 |
| twomoons | and then '[removed]' | 23:14 |
| LjL | twomoons, well i'll just conclude that Reddit is a [censored] | 23:18 |
| twomoons | lol | 23:18 |
| twomoons | reddit is full of shit now | 23:18 |
| twomoons | i guess if you become persona non grata in one channel of reddit you have rights taken away in other parts of reddit too | 23:19 |
| twomoons | 'you can post a title but we'll remove the body' | 23:19 |
| twomoons | wtf | 23:19 |
| LjL | subreddits, not channels | 23:21 |
| LjL | also they removed it because it was a "question" | 23:21 |
| twomoons | oh sorry i didn't know the lingo | 23:21 |
| LjL | their policy seems asinine | 23:21 |
| twomoons | but why can you not see that it was removed on your end? | 23:22 |
| LjL | because reddit has shady things like shadowbans | 23:23 |
| LjL | i can see it as removed from an incognito tab | 23:23 |
| twomoons | man that's fucked up | 23:23 |
| Birosso | Because it's usually people who spend inordinate amounts of time on the internet that become moderators, admins, and what have you, and they are more likely to not be well-adjusted individuals. | 23:24 |
| twomoons | lol | 23:25 |
| Birosso | Yes. | 23:25 |
| twomoons | that is pretty true imo | 23:25 |
| LjL | that sounds like yours truly | 23:27 |
| Birosso | Oh no, I totally wasn't pointing at anyone in particular there. | 23:29 |
| LjL | Birosso, you think you're subtle but your sarcasm is as big an elephant in the room as Milan was "oh no there are probably no cases there even though it's where everyone in Lombardy goes to" until last night | 23:31 |
| Birosso | If I wanted to be subtle, I wouldn't have sniggered! | 23:31 |
| LjL | Birosso, i meant before that part. after that part, you only "sniggered" to check whether i would niggardly consider that an unacceptable word. | 23:34 |
| fructose | Shared this before, but not sure anyone saw it... https://www.military.com/daily-news/2020/02/08/senators-tour-fort-detricks-usamriid-after-funding-withheld.html | 23:34 |
| Birosso | Oh, so THAT is what you meant. | 23:34 |
| Birosso | I didn't, though. | 23:34 |
| LjL | Birosso, excess laughing releases aerosol droplets that may carry the virus. if you were here, that would be punishable by law now. | 23:35 |
| fructose | "Department of Defense withheld a combined $104 million in payments from the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick and the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Chemical Defense at Aberdeen Proving Ground." | 23:35 |
| fructose | '"Whether we're dealing with anthrax or we're dealing with Ebola, we need to have that capacity," he said. "And we were alarmed by the action of the Department of Defense that held up monies for these critically important programs and jeopardizes their mission."' | 23:36 |
| fructose | 8 Feb 2020 | 23:36 |
| Birosso | Why was the money withheld? | 23:37 |
| Birosso | What's the official reason at least? | 23:37 |
| fructose | Read the article | 23:37 |
| Birosso | You didn't link an article! | 23:37 |
| Birosso | Oh | 23:37 |
| Birosso | You did. | 23:37 |
| Brainstorm | ๐ถ Spain: +31 cases (now 674), +2 recoveries (now 32) ๐ธ Argentina: +3 cases (now 12) ๐ธ Brazil: +5 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Toronto, ON, Canada: +1 cases (now 28) ๐ธ Chile: +2 cases (now 10) ๐ธ Czech Republic: +5 cases (now 31) ๐ธ Finland: +1 cases (now 25) ๐ธ Gibraltar: +1 recoveries (now 1) ๐ธ Iceland: +3 cases (now 58) ๐ธ India: +3 cases (now 43) ๐ธ Israel: +14 cases (now 39) ๐ธ Maldives: +2 cases (now 4) ๐ธ No | 23:38 |
| LjL | Birosso, don't touch your face, that can infect you | 23:39 |
| LjL | duh, have everybody been saying these things for nothing all along? | 23:39 |
| aradesh | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51796072 :/ | 23:39 |
| Birosso | LjL, if you knew how many things I have to do these days... | 23:39 |
| aradesh | 3rd death in UK now | 23:40 |
| Birosso | I have no space in my brain to worry about epidemics. | 23:40 |
| aradesh | %corona uk | 23:40 |
| Birosso | Tonight is the calm before the storm. | 23:40 |
| aradesh | %covid uk | 23:40 |
| Brainstorm | aradesh: In all areas, UK, there are 273 cases, 3 deaths (1.1% of cases), 18 recoveries as of Sun Mar 8 23:03:10 2020. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=UK for time series data. | 23:40 |
| Birosso | Hmm-mmm. | 23:40 |
| aradesh | i guess it's probably gonna get more and more over the coming days and weeks | 23:42 |
| aradesh | "Whitehall plans for the worst" is the main headline on the front of the Sunday Times. A source involved in contingency plans is quoted as saying that "experts" believe 100,000 people could die from coronavirus across the UK - a figure that was not reportedly challenged by Downing Street. | 23:43 |
| aradesh | that would be a lot of people | 23:43 |
| LjL | that would be a lot of people indeed, but i tend to find most estimates unrealistic... by virtue of being too low | 23:44 |
| LjL | so at least someone's being realistic maybe | 23:44 |
| aradesh | do you think 100,000 sounds realistic? | 23:44 |
| aradesh | there haven't been that many deaths world wide yet | 23:44 |
| LjL | if a vaccine or a very effective antiviral is developed between now and the time 100k people are projected to die, then they won't | 23:44 |
| LjL | otherwise, yes i think it sounds realistic | 23:44 |
| Birosso | Well, there are over 6 billion people on the planet. | 23:45 |
| LjL | aradesh, that's because so far it has only reached its peak in China, where they managed to make it taper off thanks to the so-called draconian measures | 23:45 |
| LjL | that won't happen in Europe, least of all in the UK | 23:45 |
| LjL | Italy is already showing that the quarantine order isn't actually working | 23:45 |
| LjL | people are violating it all over the place | 23:45 |
| aradesh | so china is actually successfully containing it? | 23:45 |
| LjL | Birosso, 8, keep up with the numbers | 23:45 |
| Birosso | LjL, WHAT? | 23:45 |
| LjL | aradesh, either that, or they're lying. my take is they're successful | 23:46 |
| Birosso | We're at EIGHT now? | 23:46 |
| LjL | Birosso, no, 8 billion. | 23:46 |
| aradesh | 7.53 according to google | 23:46 |
| Birosso | Yes! | 23:46 |
| Birosso | That's... | 23:46 |
| Birosso | I was still fixed on the 6 I learned about years ago. | 23:46 |
| LjL | Birosso, ... something that requires a huge pandemic to take care of? | 23:46 |
| aradesh | gonna get to bed. 'night | 23:46 |
| LjL | Birosso, the problem with numbers you learn in school is that they change | 23:46 |
| LjL | aradesh, night | 23:46 |
| Birosso | I'm really dreading a lockdown. | 23:47 |
| LjL | Birosso, for instance, Spain had a $6000 per capita income when i was in middle school, i remember that from our textbook, whereas italy had $13000. now spain is building metro station at a speed that's so fast, the average italian takes longer to blink | 23:47 |
| python476 | Birosso: you're in italy too ? | 23:47 |
| Birosso | If it somehow happens in Germany, I'll be in a precarious situation. | 23:47 |
| Birosso | No, no. | 23:47 |
| Birosso | In Germany. | 23:47 |
| Birosso | But you know, Europe. | 23:47 |
| LjL | Birosso, you will have a lockdown, everywhere will have a lockdown | 23:47 |
| Birosso | SMALL! | 23:47 |
| Birosso | Okay, I need to happen after the 6th of March. | 23:48 |
| Birosso | I mean of April. | 23:48 |
| Birosso | Not before. | 23:48 |
| LjL | i will go with your initial request | 23:48 |
| LjL | granted! | 23:48 |
| Birosso | STOP! | 23:48 |
| LjL | too late | 23:48 |
| LjL | Birosso, nah you're young, you won't die | 23:48 |
| Birosso | It's not the virus. | 23:48 |
| LjL | you'll just struggle between life and death with only partly broken lungs for the rest of your life | 23:49 |
| Birosso | I recently got offered an internship at a firm that's EIGHT HOURS away from where I am, so I'm forced to move. Since I don't own any house or any place where I can store things here, I find myself once again having to reduce the entirety of my belongings to one or two travelling bags. In addition to that, I have two exams near the end of the month. I also need to go extend my visa before | 23:52 |
| Birosso | the end of next month. To top it all off, I'm currently involved in a lawsuit because my current, soon-to-be previous, employer did not compensate me as agreed. Add to that the fact that I still haven't signed a contract for a new apartment, even though I'm supposed to move out in 20 days, because I don't have enough money for a deposit, something for which I am currently working 8 hours | 23:52 |
| Birosso | aday in additional to everything mentioned above. | 23:52 |
| LjL | Birosso, people who were graduating in March in Milan have had their graduation session held over Skype. | 23:52 |
| Birosso | I think all this is going to kill me before the virus does, if ever. | 23:52 |
| Birosso | I don't even want to attend my graduation. I'll die a happy man if I never have to see any of the people I attended university with every again. | 23:53 |
| LjL | :( | 23:53 |
| Birosso | Mechanical engineers aren't pleasant people. | 23:53 |
| Birosso | I know because I am one. | 23:53 |
| LjL | you're a small sample | 23:53 |
| python476 | sample of 2 | 23:54 |
| python476 | Birosso: AvE is the exception then ? | 23:54 |
| Birosso | No, mechanical engineers are notoriously dickish. | 23:54 |
| Birosso | At least here in Germany, and back in Egypt. | 23:54 |
| python476 | the youtube guy, in case you don't know him | 23:54 |
| Birosso | I don't know him. | 23:54 |
| ubLIX | Birosso: notoriously? i met some quite charming people when i trained as mech eng | 23:55 |
| Birosso | Where? | 23:55 |
| ubLIX | edinburgh | 23:55 |
| python476 | a canadian doing videos about whatever in his garage, failure mode of screws or whatever | 23:55 |
| python476 | funniest dude on earth or almost | 23:55 |
| Birosso | Like I said, I was mainly speaking from experience, my own and of people I have met and discussed this with, about certain countries. | 23:56 |
| python476 | Birosso: you now know where to move :D | 23:56 |
| Birosso | Uh, no. I can do a lot better as an engineer here in Germany than in England. | 23:56 |
| Birosso | Even though my English is MUCH better than my German. | 23:56 |
| python476 | friendly colleagues is worth a few millions | 23:56 |
| python476 | Birosso: so IIUC you're from egypt originally | 23:57 |
| Birosso | Yaes. | 23:57 |
| python476 | I see your english is bad too :p | 23:57 |
| Birosso | Yaes. | 23:57 |
| python476 | I heard germany is looking for a lot of engineers so yeah it's probably a good place to find work | 23:57 |
| Birosso | Yรคs. | 23:57 |
| python476 | Yรคโฐ | 23:58 |
| Birosso | People I know (WHO GRADUATED HERE!) don't even get asked for their grades 90% of the time. | 23:58 |
| python476 | go make Tesla gigafactory run smoother, elon needs tips | 23:58 |
| Birosso | You just say you graduated as a mechanical engineer from X, and if X is a reputable establishment, you get invited to an interview. | 23:58 |
| python476 | Birosso: you mean it's like "you're alive ?" "yes.." "hired" | 23:58 |
| Birosso | There is a *desperate* need for engineers. | 23:58 |
| python476 | I see | 23:58 |
| python476 | I get a lot of that from my college | 23:59 |
| python476 | then I interview and people expell me from their building | 23:59 |
| python476 | but I had great grades ! | 23:59 |
| python476 | ._. | 23:59 |
| Birosso | SLOW DOWN! | 23:59 |
| Birosso | WHAT did you study? | 23:59 |
| Birosso | WHERE did you study it? | 23:59 |
| python476 | programming, Paris FR | 23:59 |
| python476 | not mech eng | 23:59 |
| Birosso | Well, programming isn't mechanical engineering. | 23:59 |
| Birosso | I'm talking purely in terms of supply/demand. | 23:59 |
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