| RougeR | we have our chief medical officer directly citing herd immunity policiers | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| RougeR | we have dozens of news sites citing it | 00:00 |
| corecode | yes, but they all say that sky news reports this | 00:01 |
| corecode | which is true | 00:01 |
| RougeR | we have 1000s of scientists and doctors writing open letters asking for modelling data | 00:01 |
| RougeR | corecode, cmon mate | 00:01 |
| corecode | but it isn't clear what he actually said | 00:01 |
| RougeR | you know what isnt true | 00:01 |
| LjL | i think it's fair to say that at least some communication by people who may be construed as UK government officials definitely went in the direction of making herd immunity sound more like a policy than simply a thing that's bound to happen, and that take has been picked up by various media, and also medical groups. that doesn't necessarily means herd immunity *is* in fact being treated as a policy, but... | 00:01 |
| j[m]2 | kick t2bot.io | 00:01 |
| RougeR | <RougeR> LjL, no its not | 00:01 |
| RougeR | <corecode> the problem is that this is not a primary source | 00:01 |
| RougeR | ooops | 00:01 |
| RougeR | didnt mean to paste | 00:01 |
| j[m]2 | please kick Matrix Traveler (bot): | 00:02 |
| LjL-Matrix | ŧŵì§ŋíŋjąţ✌: that sounds like not necessarily a bad idea, but why? | 00:02 |
| j[m]2 | t2bot is bad | 00:02 |
| j[m]2 | thx | 00:03 |
| LjL-Matrix | ŧŵì§ŋíŋjąţ✌: that's a bit of a sweeping statement, but somehow i'm inclined to buy it | 00:03 |
| corecode | i interpret the information as: - in the long term, only herd immunity will help to deal with the virus (implied: via infection, maybe via vaccine?); - for now, we need to flatten the curve; - our psychologists tell us that we should delay distancing measures to the point where compliance will have the most effect | 00:03 |
| corecode | i don't know about whether that makes sense | 00:03 |
| RougeR | corecode, feel free to think that | 00:03 |
| tinwhiskers | corecode++ | 00:03 |
| RougeR | but its not the common consensus | 00:03 |
| corecode | but even tho it is bad in italy, it seems students are partying outside | 00:03 |
| corecode | so much for compliance | 00:04 |
| ubLIX | RougeR: i have not been watching the scroll, and i am away from the news half the day most days. to save from spamming the channel, could you pm me the most relevant sources/news sites that support the "herd as policy" interpretation? would save me some searching, and i'd be super grateful | 00:05 |
| RougeR | ubLIX, sure | 00:05 |
| pwr22 | LjL: as far as I'm aware matrix traveller bot try's to join any rooms it sees referenced for the same of taking some statistics | 00:05 |
| pwr22 | But I don't believe it to be malicious ... and this is a public room on matrix anyway | 00:06 |
| LjL | pwr22, i don't think it is malicious either, but that doesn't necessarily mean i want those statistics taken either. i actually kicked it before, so i'm really just kicking it again for the same reason: i don't know why it's felt it's needed, but unless i'm missing something, i don't think it's needed | 00:07 |
| LjL | pwr22, like, if the room is already public and searchable as such, why do we need it? | 00:07 |
| pwr22 | It's not possible to easily gather stats on matrix (due to the federation) without taking part in the federation | 00:08 |
| LjL | on the other hand, j[m]2's nickname shows up really ugh over the IRC bridge ;( | 00:08 |
| LjL | j[m]2, that's a remarkable variety of servers, but what are you pointing at? | 00:09 |
| pwr22 | https://github.com/turt2live/matrix-voyager-bot | 00:11 |
| pwr22 | It's on github for all to see what it does | 00:11 |
| pwr22 | I feel that there's a sort of privacy FUD about that bot which I usually see most in rooms where people don't understand matrix or are full of Jude Law's character from contagion 🤣 | 00:13 |
| LjL | pwr22, it does literally say in the readme there is no benefit in having it. i am a privacy-minded person and i tend to err on the side of caution about those things | 00:14 |
| eviscerate | Can I use gasoline as hand sanitizer? | 00:14 |
| pwr22 | And likewise there's no real cost to having it in the room | 00:14 |
| pwr22 | eviscerate: no | 00:14 |
| LjL | also if it tends to make more people join the room by giving it more visibility, well, ten minutes ago or so i felt i had perhaps a bit too many people to manage (although really it was just 2-3) | 00:14 |
| tinwhiskers | RougeR: Planned actions in the UK Quarantining elderly; the forced requisitioning of hotels and other buildings as temporary hospitals; the requisitioning of private hospitals as emergency hospitals; temporary closure of pubs, bars and restaurants - some time after next weekend's ban on mass gatherings; emergency manufacture by several companies of respirators that would be necessary to keep alive those who become acutely ill; the | 00:14 |
| tinwhiskers | closure of schools for perhaps a few weeks, but with skeleton staff kept on to provide childcare for key workers in the NHS and police. | 00:14 |
| tinwhiskers | It is part of a series of measures being prepared by the prime minister, health secretary, chief medical officer and chief scientific adviser to prevent the health service from "falling over" and to save lives as Covid-19 becomes an epidemic in the UK. | 00:15 |
| tinwhiskers | They are not planning to just let things run wild. Stop coming in here twice a day and repeating that crap | 00:15 |
| RougeR | tinwhiskers, thats peston | 00:15 |
| RougeR | he is saying same as i am | 00:16 |
| RougeR | im not saying uk gov will | 00:16 |
| tinwhiskers | those are the planned actions | 00:16 |
| pwr22 | LjL: you can of course do what you want - I just wonder sometimes what it is that goes through peoples minds for this sort of thing | 00:16 |
| RougeR | im saying they have no released anything to reasure us | 00:16 |
| RougeR | they need to FULLY isolate the vulnerable for this to maybe work | 00:16 |
| RougeR | tinwhiskers, im not some tinfoil | 00:16 |
| RougeR | im not the only one worried or thinking this | 00:16 |
| RougeR | stop painting me to be so | 00:16 |
| tinwhiskers | You're a broken record. | 00:16 |
| pwr22 | I have a personal friend who is very privacy focussed and it does impact doing normal things sometimes 🤷♂️ | 00:16 |
| RougeR | tinwhiskers, well dealwithit | 00:17 |
| RougeR | this is huge | 00:17 |
| RougeR | the UK gov is going against WHO guidelines regardless | 00:17 |
| tinwhiskers | These measures are planned. that is what the UK is doing. They are not planning to run wild to "herd immunity". So stop repeating that endlessly. | 00:17 |
| pwr22 | <RougeR "tinwhiskers, well dealwithit"> This channel is not just for you RougeR, be reasonable | 00:17 |
| RougeR | k | 00:18 |
| LjL | pwr22, yes, being privacy-focused does impact doing some things most people find "normal". that's a choice people make. | 00:18 |
| RougeR | ill be reasonable when im not painted as some nutjob for sharing the same views as our leading immunologists | 00:18 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "also if it tends to make more pe"> I think it mostly just goes int a cool network diagram and maybe adds to some counts | 00:18 |
| RougeR | but for now | 00:18 |
| RougeR | im off | 00:18 |
| pwr22 | <RougeR "tinwhiskers, im not some tinfoil"> IMO you are 🤷♂️. But that's ok as long as you don't take the piss | 00:19 |
| pwr22 | A lot of this channel probably qualifies as "tinfoill" one way or another | 00:19 |
| RougeR | pwr22, then so are all of the media | 00:20 |
| RougeR | and scientists | 00:20 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "Peter Roberts, yes, being privac"> It's not really fair when that's forced upon others though - imo. Especially when its "tinfoil" level stuff. | 00:20 |
| tinwhiskers | RougeR: You're ignoring the plans the UK has and keep repeating they have no plans except "herd immunity". I just listed the plans. They have plans. No more about the herd immunity thing! | 00:21 |
| RougeR | tinwhiskers, they need to implement them now then | 00:21 |
| LjL | pwr22, uh, if anything i feel i'm often the one "forced" to use things that are clearly very privacy invasive, or else, i just can't be in society. it is a little ridiculoous that the idea of me kicking an admittedly not-useful bot from the room because i don't really feel great about have it is "forcing" something. | 00:21 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: do we have a vaccine against coronavirus for cattle alrady? | 00:21 |
| RougeR | if thats the case | 00:21 |
| RougeR | that is what WHO recommends | 00:21 |
| tinwhiskers | RougeR: drop it | 00:21 |
| RougeR | tinwhiskers, drop it? | 00:21 |
| ryouma | so 4 months for elderly? where will they get thir food and medicine? | 00:22 |
| RougeR | im wrong, you are right. just drop it? | 00:22 |
| pwr22 | RougeR: absolutely many people share your conviction that the UK government is for some reason willfully ignoring all scientific evidence and choosing to mismanage the situation in a way that will cause great avoidable loss of human life | 00:22 |
| ryouma | also what are they doing about diabled and chronically sick? | 00:22 |
| pwr22 | Likewise, many people don't share that conviction | 00:22 |
| LjL | RougeR, tinwhiskers: you're both being excessive about this right now in my opinion. you've both pasted huge snippets and talked past each other. | 00:22 |
| tinwhiskers | UK have openly stated they are delaying these measures for now, as are MOST OTHER COUNTRIES. | 00:22 |
| RougeR | tinwhiskers, okay mate | 00:22 |
| RougeR | lets just wait | 00:22 |
| tinwhiskers | Lockdown only occurs once things progress to a certain point | 00:22 |
| RougeR | lets | 00:22 |
| RougeR | wait | 00:22 |
| RougeR | ill come back when we hit 100k dead ok | 00:23 |
| Spec | RougeR: yes, but like, you know | 00:23 |
| Spec | RougeR: there's other people | 00:23 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "Peter Roberts, uh, if anything i"> Oh to be clear I didn't mean the bot. I was talking about my close friend IRL who is super privacy concious. Sorry for the confusion ☹︎ | 00:23 |
| Spec | RougeR: so for reasonable success you must calculate odds on when the best chance to orchestrate such things are, unfortunately | 00:23 |
| RougeR | ah im done arguing | 00:23 |
| pwr22 | Your kicking the bot just made me think "There's no logical way that's harmful, I wonder what they are thinking?" | 00:23 |
| RougeR | ive given the sources. im waiting for the government to release modeling and a statement | 00:24 |
| Spec | pwr22: what do you mean by "no logical way that's harmful" | 00:24 |
| RougeR | atm the larger scientific community and the WHO are highly critical of the Uk and concererned | 00:24 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +101 cases (now 156624), +3 deaths (now 5827), +1 recoveries (now 74453) 🔸 Argentina: +11 cases (now 45) 🔸 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +3 cases (now 21) 🔸 Bulgaria: +4 cases (now 41) 🔸 Canada: +22 cases (now 247) 🔸 Costa Rica: +1 cases (now 27) 🔸 Croatia: +1 cases (now 39) 🔸 Cyprus: +5 cases (now 26) 🔸 Ecuador: +5 cases (now 28), +1 deaths (now 2) 🔸 Egypt: +16 cases (now 109) 🔸 Finland: +9 recove | 00:24 |
| RougeR | bye | 00:24 |
| Spec | RougeR: but what can you do? | 00:25 |
| LjL | pwr22, building a graph of how rooms connect in terms of which rooms know which other room is just the kind of metadata that, i believe, many entities collect because they believe it's often more useful for gaining grasp of a social network than the data itself | 00:25 |
| Spec | RougeR: self isolate and shrug on | 00:25 |
| RougeR | Spec, protest? | 00:25 |
| RougeR | act independantly | 00:25 |
| Spec | RougeR: i think protesting is the opposite of what you should do | 00:25 |
| Spec | at least in groups | 00:25 |
| RougeR | Spec, protest takes many forms | 00:25 |
| Mr_Pink | "https://twitter.com/Tom_Winter/status/1238968623118630915" | 00:25 |
| tinwhiskers | like spamming an irc channel | 00:25 |
| Mr_Pink | err | 00:25 |
| RougeR | Spec, im just going to wait | 00:25 |
| RougeR | and see how they respond | 00:25 |
| Spec | RougeR: yes, call your govenor what whatever equivalent representation you have | 00:26 |
| RougeR | im glad MY government is not technically UK gov | 00:26 |
| RougeR | we are following WHO guidelines here | 00:26 |
| Spec | governor, even | 00:26 |
| RougeR | social distancing, advise against not essential travel | 00:26 |
| RougeR | i live in jersey | 00:26 |
| RougeR | atm | 00:26 |
| RougeR | was living mainland uk | 00:26 |
| Spec | that little island? | 00:26 |
| RougeR | yeah | 00:26 |
| RougeR | we are independant of the uk | 00:26 |
| Spec | like guernsy | 00:26 |
| RougeR | yeee | 00:26 |
| Spec | so you're already self isolated anyways | 00:27 |
| Spec | on a whee lil island | 00:27 |
| RougeR | Spec, well | 00:27 |
| RougeR | not really | 00:27 |
| RougeR | we have flights coming in everyday from uk | 00:27 |
| ryouma | the rest of the world gets completely confused about all those uk-related (or unrelated) jurisdictions | 00:27 |
| RougeR | and a small hospital | 00:27 |
| RougeR | with a precarious supply chain | 00:27 |
| RougeR | and an elderly population | 00:27 |
| Spec | RougeR: oh you should call your local dood and tell him to stop flights asap | 00:28 |
| Spec | have they even played plague, inc | 00:28 |
| RougeR | Spec, they are getting there | 00:28 |
| RougeR | they went from "carry on as normal, go on holiday" | 00:28 |
| pwr22 | Spec: I've already outlined it above and it's pretty off topic so I'm not going to go back into it . I already feel bad I've made LjL feel bad ☹︎ | 00:28 |
| pwr22 | Sure, or it could be a nerdy project on github | 00:28 |
| pwr22 | But I see your point LjL | 00:28 |
| RougeR | to: "isolate if over 65, all social distance, no non-essential travel in or out" | 00:28 |
| Spec | pwr22: i wouldn't trust such things. | 00:28 |
| contingo | they retired Joey, hasn't been normal since then | 00:29 |
| RougeR | hey contingo | 00:29 |
| Spec | RougeR: yeah, i wonder when our airports are gonna close | 00:29 |
| Spec | ours closing will disrupt much. | 00:29 |
| Spec | in the world. | 00:29 |
| contingo | https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy/news/iconic/#.Xm1o8evgoUE | 00:29 |
| LjL | pwr22, okay yeah it's not very on-topic, i think it could be both things (even without the author realizing), anyway it does say it takes kick messages into account, so i tried to be courteous both times, fwiw | 00:30 |
| Spec | contingo: that's kinda a cool plane | 00:30 |
| RougeR | contingo, jersey is not following UK now | 00:30 |
| RougeR | we are going for france/europe aproach | 00:30 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "Peter Roberts, okay yeah it's no"> It's probably worth banning next time as it will probably come back again next time someone links to the room | 00:31 |
| contingo | as per last night our approach is very changeable | 00:31 |
| RougeR | Avoid non essential travel, over 65s/vulnerable practice self-isolating | 00:31 |
| RougeR | contingo, | 00:31 |
| RougeR | hmmm | 00:31 |
| RougeR | this might sound mad | 00:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 23:22 UTC: /u/Isentrope: Seung Min Kim su Twitter: "White House says Trump’s coronavirus test came back negative… " → https://is.gd/S3DesD | 00:32 |
| RougeR | i kind of want it | 00:32 |
| tinwhiskers | dang. more bad news. | 00:32 |
| RougeR | so i can help my parents | 00:32 |
| RougeR | and not risk infecting them | 00:32 |
| RougeR | i was hoping trumpy might go | 00:33 |
| RougeR | dw | 00:33 |
| RougeR | there is time | 00:33 |
| pwr22 | Making coronavirus great again | 00:33 |
| pwr22 | 🍊🦆👌 | 00:34 |
| pwr22 | Huh, I thought that might unicode combine into a trump emoji | 00:34 |
| contingo | Spec: was fun to fly in a plane (that plane) as a kid that had its own kids' storybook series | 00:34 |
| RougeR | is anyone in france here | 00:34 |
| RougeR | my brother is there | 00:34 |
| RougeR | he might try coming back | 00:34 |
| Spec | contingo: ah, you've flown in it? | 00:34 |
| RougeR | will likely self isolate ifhe does | 00:34 |
| RougeR | contingo, Spec ah ive been on joey too | 00:35 |
| RougeR | its funky haha | 00:35 |
| RougeR | i remember going jersey to guernsey in joey | 00:35 |
| RougeR | sorry missed it contingo | 00:35 |
| Spec | i've been in a 5 person water plane before | 00:35 |
| Spec | the sort that lands in water, that is | 00:35 |
| RougeR | contingo, i feel Jersey/Guernsey should put in place 7-10 day isolation measure for anyone in/out | 00:36 |
| contingo | I get the sentiment, RougeR, but that would be tricky to figure out, unless you left it a long time, with the remaining unknowns about the period and viability of post-symptom shedding and stuff | 00:36 |
| RougeR | contingo, sentiment of? | 00:37 |
| RougeR | oh | 00:37 |
| contingo | wanting to have had it | 00:37 |
| RougeR | yeah | 00:37 |
| RougeR | i get what you mean | 00:37 |
| RougeR | as i said, bit mad | 00:37 |
| contingo | yeah was an annual hols thing Spec | 00:37 |
| RougeR | contingo, surely if i test negative after? | 00:37 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +111 cases (now 156735), +2 recoveries (now 74455) 🔶 US: +176 cases (now 2836), +2 deaths (now 57) 🔸 Argentina: +11 cases (now 45) 🔸 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +3 cases (now 21) 🔸 Bulgaria: +4 cases (now 41) 🔸 Canada: +22 cases (now 247) 🔸 China: +2 recoveries (now 65657) 🔸 Yunnan, China: +2 recoveries (now 172) 🔸 Costa Rica: +1 cases (now 27) 🔸 Croatia: +1 cases (now 39) 🔸 Cyprus: +5 cases (n | 00:38 |
| RougeR | contingo, | 00:38 |
| RougeR | https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/jsy/news/coronavirus-condor-cuts-passengers-bolster-supply-chain/#.Xm1rDuHngiU | 00:38 |
| RougeR | interesting | 00:39 |
| RougeR | https://www.bailiwickexpress.com/files/2315/8411/8645/waitrose.png | 00:39 |
| RougeR | what | 00:39 |
| RougeR | fuck | 00:39 |
| RougeR | b&q still had facemasks here | 00:39 |
| RougeR | lol | 00:39 |
| RougeR | woulda got 1 or 2 | 00:39 |
| X-Scale | 3M masks ? | 00:40 |
| RougeR | mhm | 00:40 |
| RougeR | hospital need em more imo | 00:40 |
| RougeR | hhey | 00:41 |
| RougeR | greece might be interesting | 00:41 |
| RougeR | lots of small islands | 00:41 |
| contingo | the post illness immunological picture is a bit unclear. Your immune system could essentially have control of the thing, and have cleared it from your respiratory tract, so you test negative, but you could still be shedding it via another system for some time, fecally for example, and immune privileged sites could still harbor it. I really don't know, the WHO I think have said it's not expected to be an issue in the majority of cases, but haven't | 00:42 |
| contingo | quantified it | 00:42 |
| RougeR | contingo, hmmm throws the uk thinking in question | 00:44 |
| contingo | RougeR do you know how to pronounce these islets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cr%C3%A9hous | 00:44 |
| RougeR | yeah | 00:44 |
| RougeR | ive beeen to them | 00:44 |
| RougeR | Eh CREE HOW | 00:44 |
| contingo | aha! | 00:45 |
| RougeR | yeah took a rib there n sailed there few times | 00:45 |
| RougeR | i can see them from my window | 00:45 |
| contingo | did you actually make landfall | 00:45 |
| RougeR | yeah | 00:45 |
| RougeR | had a bbq | 00:45 |
| contingo | congrats, nice spot for one | 00:46 |
| RougeR | yeah enjoyed it :) | 00:46 |
| contingo | possibly not as nice as tinwhiskers' private reef-adjacent Tongan beach, but pretty tops for British Isles | 00:47 |
| RougeR | https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/mar/14/scientists-urge-government-to-enforce-social-distancing-now | 00:48 |
| RougeR | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/coronavirus-nhs-private-hospitals-join-forces-academics-warn-over-strategy | 00:48 |
| RougeR | contingo, aye ive been to herm and sark | 00:48 |
| RougeR | and brechau? | 00:48 |
| RougeR | lihau? | 00:48 |
| RougeR | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lihou | 00:48 |
| contingo | you spell it brechau? | 00:49 |
| RougeR | which one? | 00:49 |
| RougeR | ah this is it | 00:50 |
| RougeR | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brecqhou | 00:50 |
| contingo | ah right. I've been around Burhou | 00:50 |
| RougeR | wait duno if i have been there | 00:50 |
| RougeR | sailed past it | 00:50 |
| RougeR | ahh neat! | 00:51 |
| RougeR | i should go to alderny | 00:51 |
| RougeR | might try get parents to sail there | 00:51 |
| RougeR | maybe we can go away on boat this summer during pandemic | 00:51 |
| RougeR | only issue is that there will likely be little lifeboat service. but we are experienced | 00:52 |
| contingo | there's a big gannet colony on a rock off the southwest tip, coast is very cliffy and majestic around there, many little-visited coves to explore | 00:53 |
| RougeR | ahh nice | 00:54 |
| RougeR | sounds fgood to visit | 00:54 |
| RougeR | ive done some climbing round the islands so seen some bits like it | 00:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:55 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: France closes most stores, Spain imposes lockdown, US restricts UK travel → https://is.gd/L2OfuA | 00:59 |
| commandocrypto[m | RougeR: there might be more "lifeboat"services in the med this year and next than there was in the arctic sea in 2010 | 01:05 |
| commandocrypto[m | the north sea should be good to go once the weather turns tho | 01:05 |
| commandocrypto[m | LjL: not enough fud in this room you have us talking about long walks in the countryside and the weather next summer when *china is on fire* and italy is trying to put out it's arms | 01:07 |
| ubLIX | i'm just getting around to watching the government's press conference of 12 Feb, in which the Chief Scientific Officer tells the room that at 590 confirmed cases, "we are still on the flat part of the curve" :| | 01:07 |
| LjL | commandocrypto[m, i think it is very safe to say that at this particular time we all have more than our share of fear, uncertainty and doubt | 01:08 |
| LjL | ubLIX, well it's kinda flat when you look at it after you've reached 22000 | 01:09 |
| ubLIX | LjL: fair point | 01:09 |
| commandocrypto[m | i cannot wait to see the phenotype of the strain that mr. super spreader pozz'd his wife with. it's like "who's the daddy" but with handshakes as an interesting angle to everything | 01:12 |
| RougeR | ubLIX, | 01:12 |
| RougeR | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Etlyvt9n_QE | 01:12 |
| RougeR | good update | 01:12 |
| ubLIX | RougeR: got it in my queue | 01:13 |
| iz | usa testing: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html | 01:14 |
| iz | so far, it seems at best 16k cases tested | 01:15 |
| LjL | iz, that's a start, compared to the almost nothing they were doing until not so many days ago | 01:16 |
| iz | yup, it's apparent on that graph | 01:16 |
| iz | but 16k is still not much yet | 01:16 |
| iz | nationwide | 01:17 |
| iz | trump claimed there were 1 million tests available and that 4 million more tests would be available this week | 01:17 |
| LjL | iz, if they do manage to set up effective drive-through testing, i have some hope that will help, since it seemed to be (at least part of) a useful method in Korea | 01:17 |
| iz | yeah, we'll see what happens next week and if testing capacity really goes up that much or not | 01:18 |
| mirsal | https://www.flattenthecurve.com/ | 01:22 |
| mirsal | https://github.com/flattenthecurve/guide | 01:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 00:18 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: CNN Breaking News su Twitter: "People in Spain are banned from leaving their houses, with a few exceptions, the Prime Minister says https://t.co/dlrvo1b5Eq… https://t.co/gN4DPFVu4Q" → https://is.gd/mACDl8 | 01:27 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +12 cases (now 156747), +6 deaths (now 5833), +1255 recoveries (now 75710) 🔶 China: +4 cases (now 80980), +6 deaths (now 3199), +1256 recoveries (now 66911) 🔸 Argentina: +11 cases (now 45) 🔸 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +3 cases (now 21) 🔸 Bulgaria: +4 cases (now 41) 🔸 Canada: +22 cases (now 247) 🔸 Chongqing, China: +3 recoveries (now 569) 🔸 Gansu, China: +3 cases (now 132) 🔸 Shanghai, China: +1 cases | 01:32 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | So don't panic, everything is under control. This is just a flu. | 01:35 |
| petersjt014[m] | <R3DP1LL[m] "So don't panic, everything is un"> Well we did have a bunch of empirical evidence but that there's a genuine shitty low-res jpeg from 4chan. Can't argue with that. | 01:44 |
| LjL | R3DP1LL[m], i *was* kinda wondering how long it'd take you from #alerts to here | 02:11 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 Hubei, China: +4 cases (now 67794), +10 deaths (now 3085), +1318 recoveries (now 54278) 🔸 Argentina: +11 cases (now 45) 🔸 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +3 cases (now 21) 🔸 Bulgaria: +4 cases (now 41) 🔸 Canada: +27 cases (now 252) 🔸 China: +4 cases (now 80984), +4 deaths (now 3203), +73 recoveries (now 66984) 🔸 Heilongjiang, China: +6 recoveries (now 453) 🔸 Norway: +1 cases (now 1109) 🔸 Spain: +1 deaths (now 196 | 02:13 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +95 cases (now 156852), +3 deaths (now 5841), +130 recoveries (now 75913) 🔶 Korea, South: +76 cases (now 8162), +3 deaths (now 75), +120 recoveries (now 834) 🔸 Argentina: +11 cases (now 45) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +4 cases (now 19), +3 recoveries (now 6) 🔸 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +3 cases (now 21) 🔸 Bulgaria: +4 cases (now 41) 🔸 Canada: +27 cases (now 252) 🔸 China: +10 cases (now 80990), +4 deaths (now 3203), | 02:27 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: the webpage with the data mentioned in the channel description... where is it coming from? It's mentioned it comes from JHU on github. But their numbers differ from the offloop.net data | 02:30 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: Base data comes from JH github, then the JH arcGIS data is added to that, then web scraping on covid19info.live and worldometers.info. Those figures are only shown if you select the "show latest authoritative data" checkbox. | 02:32 |
| tinwhiskers | *unauthoritative | 02:33 |
| tinwhiskers | oh, there's also some italian regional data from another github | 02:34 |
| oriba | ok. but the JHS data you use seems also to be outdated regarding the official data, e.g. JHS-website gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com says 4585 cases in germany, you have 3675 (2020-03-12) but add additional data. | 02:41 |
| tinwhiskers | I see | 02:41 |
| oriba | I also found 4585 cases in the github data. | 02:41 |
| tinwhiskers | I'll check it out | 02:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Mine shows 4599 | 02:42 |
| oriba | I wonder how not to become confused with so many sources. | 02:42 |
| oriba | hmhh | 02:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, sorry. I see what you mean. | 02:43 |
| tinwhiskers | I see to be missing the 4585 reading from JH but have a newer/higher value from worldometers. | 02:43 |
| tinwhiskers | I have a look why I'm missing that JH data. thanks for point it out. | 02:43 |
| tinwhiskers | *pretend I wrote english | 02:44 |
| oriba | how to decide, which data is right, when there are different values? What data is official? | 02:45 |
| contingo | my local hospital https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/cleaners-at-london-hospital-walk-out-after-contractor-fails-to-pay-wages | 02:45 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: I only take the JH daily report data as official hence having to check that checkbox to see the other data | 02:47 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: you said, JH github as base then adding JH arcGIS data. But shouldn't both be equal? | 02:47 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: yes, but I only use the daily stats as official | 02:47 |
| tinwhiskers | the JH arcgis isn't actually very current so rarely features in the latest stats anyway | 02:48 |
| tinwhiskers | but it's a good fallback for when other data isn't available | 02:48 |
| IronY | JHS will sometimes be ahead of the gov | 02:49 |
| IronY | the gov will somtimes be ahead of JHS | 02:49 |
| IronY | at least that has been my experience with polling multiple endpoints | 02:49 |
| IronY | scraping of the same endpoint ageis uses (not git data), and xpath scraping multiple government official websites | 02:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:41 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: France closes most stores, Spain imposes lockdown, US restricts UK travel → https://is.gd/L2OfuA | 02:50 |
| IronY | they tend to converge around 12 am EST | 02:50 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: 3675 is the latest value in the JH time-series data on github, but I wouldn't be surprised if they neglected to put it in that dataset for some reason. Whoever is curating that data is not very good. | 02:51 |
| tinwhiskers | ok, yeah I see they've put 4585 into their daily report but not the time series. boo. | 02:52 |
| ketas | tinwhiskers: you are much more dangerous than cov | 02:53 |
| tinwhiskers | They've just put a blank column in for today *again* | 02:53 |
| ryouma | having trouble figuring out what we are to do with, or think about given, those brainstorm updates | 02:57 |
| ryouma | (i mean the ones with the numbers and the unicode glyphs that i do not have) | 02:57 |
| ryouma | codepoitns* | 02:57 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: yes, the try their best, but it's a mess nevertheless | 02:58 |
| LjL | do you think having those codepoints would sway your perception of whether you can figure out what you are to do with them? | 02:58 |
| ryouma | no :) | 02:58 |
| ryouma | if i understand unicode correctly it is osmething like glyphs that i lack, but codepoitnst hat are being provided :) | 02:59 |
| ryouma | and it is my brain that is lacking the capacity atm to make sense of countries, increments, raw numbers, and percentages as useful | 03:00 |
| LjL | ryouma, maybe there's nothing we can do with anything and we should just watch a movie and hope we don't die from it if we catch it | 03:00 |
| LjL | or alternatively we can obsess on numbers and keeping an eye on things and what we can do | 03:00 |
| LjL | i'm honestly not sure which approach is better, or if even any approach is better | 03:01 |
| LjL | but i know what i tend to do, even if it may not be the best, and it tends to lean on the obsessive side | 03:01 |
| ryouma | sure, just they seem kind of, idk, what do i compare them with or what is the sequence, or what would indicate good or basd news or anomalies | 03:01 |
| ryouma | or maybe my irc client is wrapping them and they make sense if not wrapped or something | 03:02 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: I guess I could add in the daily report from JH as another data source on the off-chance they have forgotten to update the time-series data again. As for why I only get the old value from their arcgis as well puzzles me. I get a JSON file from there that appeared to be same data source they use but they must have more than one data source there too. | 03:03 |
| tinwhiskers | I guess the JSON file is updated from the time-series data so it's missing there, and they also have a source that updates from the daily report that I don't know the location of. | 03:05 |
| LjL | ryouma, they may be more readable at a glance if you *do* have those unicode glyphs. they stand out because they are yellow, and you get bigger glyphs for when things get a >100 increment, and smaller glyphs for smaller increments. i've been told a few times it might be better to just make them periodic, and it might, but to me, if you know how things are updated in your country, they may make sense differently. like me in italy, it's updated every day at | 03:07 |
| LjL | 18, so when i see an update i know that's today's big update, and i can quickly compare it in my head with how bad yesterday was. | 03:07 |
| tinwhiskers | no, that doesn't make sense. I have no friggin clue what they are doing but it's a bit shit. | 03:07 |
| LjL | other countries are more like a trickle because they report more often | 03:07 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: they mentioned their data sources on the main page of the github repo. Maybe scraping these sources directly would make sense... there are also a lot of issues there and some mention other scraper projects. | 03:08 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, maybe | 03:08 |
| oriba | Also some more sources were collected in some of the issues | 03:08 |
| tinwhiskers | thanks oriba | 03:08 |
| oriba | it needs a github-issue-scrape to collect all the urls from there :-) | 03:10 |
| oriba | ...to find more data sources | 03:10 |
| tinwhiskers | heh, yeah | 03:10 |
| tinwhiskers | I'd be quite happy with their data if they just had someone competent to manage it who could do the same thing each day instead of random fun changes. | 03:11 |
| oriba | yes | 03:11 |
| oriba | "Center for Systems Science and Engineering" ?? what?! | 03:11 |
| oriba | but it's also strange, that all those sources just provide their html or maybe worse sources | 03:13 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, global reporting should be much more standardised and transparent | 03:14 |
| ryouma | dunno what you mean by periodic | 03:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: South Korea reports less than 100 new cases for the first time in days → https://is.gd/YQFtE7 | 03:31 |
| commandocrypto[m | plot twist - the numbers indicate that maybe the chinese are the good guys. americans - have you got enough of a grip to figure out if ur mortality is less than 5% or if some of the dozens of thousands of ILI cases were actually undiagnosed SARS-COVid? | 03:35 |
| commandocrypto[m | asking for a friend | 03:35 |
| adventurer | oh | 03:40 |
| adventurer | what does ILI stand for | 03:41 |
| adventurer | Influenza Like Illness. | 03:43 |
| adventurer | i googled. | 03:43 |
| commandocrypto[m | is there a lmgfy type redirect to ddg? | 03:45 |
| petersjt014[m] | ddg.gg | 03:47 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +115 cases (now 156967), +11 recoveries (now 75924) 🔸 Argentina: +11 cases (now 45) 🔸 Armenia: +2 cases (now 20) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +4 cases (now 19), +3 recoveries (now 6) 🔸 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +3 cases (now 21) 🔸 Bulgaria: +4 cases (now 41) 🔸 Canada: +27 cases (now 252) 🔸 Alberta, Canada: +10 cases (now 39) 🔸 British Columbia, Canada: +9 cases (now 73) 🔸 New Brunswick, Canada: +1 cases (now 2) | 03:47 |
| petersjt014[m] | * ddg.gg/lite/search?q=x | 03:47 |
| adventurer | lmgty = let me google for you (I had to google it ) what is ddg? | 03:48 |
| berndj | petersjt014[m], that isn't snarky enough. no condescending animated arrow and simulated typing in of the query | 03:48 |
| petersjt014[m] | 'sfaster though. | 03:48 |
| berndj | i just made ddg my default search. faster still | 03:49 |
| adventurer | duck duck go? | 03:49 |
| Zalyssa | danger danger gopher | 03:49 |
| adventurer | I hate when people use too many acronyms I datedsomeone that always used them...he never would even say apple juice he called that AJ | 03:49 |
| adventurer | now OJ people say but AJ | 03:49 |
| adventurer | I think that was unique to him | 03:49 |
| Zalyssa | wait til you see the military | 03:50 |
| Albright | OK IC LOL | 03:50 |
| petersjt014[m] | EDGUHFYN | 03:50 |
| commandocrypto[m | sorry ```ddg.gg/?q=zkSNARKs``` | 03:52 |
| commandocrypto[m | adventurer: i've never called a pb+j but the full expression. especially not in person. that would be weird to me | 03:52 |
| commandocrypto[m | i knew someone like that. i still know of them | 03:53 |
| dividediff[m] | "These simulations show how to flatten the coronavirus growth curve" https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/world/corona-simulator/ | 03:53 |
| commandocrypto[m | tooo annoying .... american reality tv stars say everyone the long way | 03:53 |
| commandocrypto[m | rofl wysiwyg | 03:54 |
| rahiakherajot[m] | %data India | 03:55 |
| Brainstorm | rahiakherajot[m]: In all areas, India, there are 102 cases, 2 deaths (2.0% of cases), 10 recoveries as of March 15, 02:48Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India for time series data. | 03:55 |
| commandocrypto[m | how is folding@home the only distributed big data effort in this? is there some technical hurdle that i'm not aware of. i get security but... none of these patients anywhere in the world have any problem publishing their personal details on boomertoob every day | 03:56 |
| rahiakherajot[m] | %data New Dehli | 03:57 |
| Brainstorm | rahiakherajot[m]: Sorry, New Dehli not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 03:57 |
| commandocrypto[m | plus the NHS had been mandated by law to have totaly anonymized randomized datasets available as a service - where is that? | 03:57 |
| rahiakherajot[m] | %data New Delhi | 03:57 |
| Brainstorm | rahiakherajot[m]: Sorry, New Delhi not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 03:57 |
| dividediff[m] | I'm interesting too in knowing if F@H is the only distributed effort | 03:58 |
| dividediff[m] | Anyone follow update on lymph node regeneration? It's going well and can improve immune function in older folks | 03:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 02:52 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Charles Ornstein su Twitter: "The U.S. crossed 1,000 positives on 3/10. We crossed 2,000 on 3/13. Tonight, 3/14, we are on the verge of crossing 3,000. This is not a horse race, but when you see tweets of people at bars and restaurants, it makes me think the message is not sinking in yet how serious [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/nQ9Ygw | 03:59 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews at 00:22 UTC: worldnews: Italians over 80 'will be left to die' as country overwhelmed by coronavirus → https://is.gd/ffteB4 | 04:01 |
| commandocrypto[m | <dividediff[m] "Anyone follow update on lymph no"> i'd like to hear source on immune recovery, please. need good news | 04:04 |
| commandocrypto[m | dividediff: i would have thought all these millenials who get paid for their "big data" skills would be chipping in - i'm happy to contrinute but am just a lowly programmer/sysadmin/exneckbeard | 04:06 |
| dividediff[m] | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9YirNgAzXI ""Jealous Coronavirus" music video from Vietnamese Health Dept" | 04:06 |
| IronY | %origins | 04:11 |
| petersjt014[m] | Big Data is just lots of small data, It's not that different. If they can do it you probably can too. | 04:11 |
| Albright | dividediff[m]: That slumps. | 04:11 |
| oriba2 | https://www.pnas.org/content/116/52/27142 | 04:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 03:08 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Buongiorno a tutti, Mentre eravate via → https://is.gd/d49QLw | 04:12 |
| Poon_ | %data sweden | 04:29 |
| Brainstorm | Poon_: In all areas, Sweden, there are 961 cases, 2 deaths (0.2% of cases), 1 recoveries as of March 14, 22:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Sweden for time series data. | 04:29 |
| Poon_ | %data hungary | 04:29 |
| Brainstorm | Poon_: In all areas, Hungary, there are 30 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 1 recoveries as of March 14, 22:53Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Hungary for time series data. | 04:29 |
| ryouma | i like petersjt014[m] comment | 04:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:29 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: South Korea reports less than 100 new cases for the first time in days → https://is.gd/YQFtE7 | 04:40 |
| petersjt014[m] | :> | 04:41 |
| HeXiLeD | %data greenland | 04:44 |
| Brainstorm | HeXiLeD: Sorry, greenland not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 04:44 |
| HeXiLeD | %data japan | 04:45 |
| Brainstorm | HeXiLeD: In all areas, Japan, there are 804 cases, 22 deaths (2.7% of cases), 144 recoveries as of March 15, 03:32Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Japan for time series data. | 04:45 |
| JsonJuri[m] | %data taiwan | 04:47 |
| Brainstorm | JsonJuri[m]: In all areas, Taiwan, there are 53 cases, 1 deaths (1.9% of cases), 20 recoveries as of March 15, 03:32Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Taiwan for time series data. | 04:47 |
| Brainstorm | JsonJuri[m]: Mortality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.6% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 4.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 04:48 |
| Poon_ | %data vietnam | 05:02 |
| Brainstorm | Poon_: In all areas, Vietnam, there are 53 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 16 recoveries as of March 14, 12:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Vietnam for time series data. | 05:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: American to suspend international flights, South Korea has 76 new cases → https://is.gd/YQFtE7 | 05:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:32 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: American cuts international flights by 75%, South Korea has 76 new cases → https://is.gd/YQFtE7 | 05:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:41 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: American slashes international flights by 75%, South Korea has 76 new cases → https://is.gd/YQFtE7 | 05:49 |
| ryouma | %data south korea | 05:56 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, Korea, South, there are 8162 cases, 75 deaths (0.9% of cases), 834 recoveries as of March 15, 04:50Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Korea,%20South for time series data. | 05:56 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: Mortality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.3% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 8.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 05:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 04:42 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: I’m ashamed to know this person. This was on my fb feed. I went to school with them, we don’t hang out. Meanwhile, I have a friend with a household of 6 that has only 2 rolls of tp and stores are cleaned out. They had to wait for payday to shop. As many in america do. Makes me sick. Stop it. Please. → https://is.gd/gWtQVv | 06:03 |
| ryouma | psychologists try to make theories for tp. they just make stuff up. if it were a different product they would make up different stuff. | 06:11 |
| ryouma | perhaps stocking up on tp started in one place and everybody heard about it and so it was a positive feedback loop. it isn't becasue everybody is drawn to large cylindrical objects or have neurological connections to paper goods. | 06:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 05:01 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Un farmaco usato fino ad oggi per combattere infiammazioni dovute all'artrite reumatoide sembra dare una risposta positiva al trattamento di problemi respiratori dovuti al coronavirus. → https://is.gd/y3Iwk5 | 06:17 |
| IronY | ryouma: it is basically a tide pod challenge | 06:20 |
| IronY | product of social media and panic | 06:20 |
| ryouma | tide pod? | 06:20 |
| IronY | google it lol your mind will be blown at human stupidity | 06:20 |
| ryouma | single-use tide? | 06:21 |
| ryouma | not finding anything stupid | 06:21 |
| IronY | https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2018/01/13/teens-are-daring-each-other-to-eat-tide-pods-we-dont-need-to-tell-you-thats-a-bad-idea/ | 06:21 |
| ryouma | oh they eat them | 06:21 |
| ryouma | whatever! | 06:22 |
| IronY | if people see people on social media do anything, regardless of how stupid (eating tide pods), they will follow suite | 06:22 |
| ryouma | i think it's probably more rational. if everybody is doing it, then some will want to do it because they think there will not be any left for them. | 06:23 |
| ryouma | they think the suppy will not match the demans | 06:23 |
| ryouma | but psychologists and osciologi8ts go around making up nonsense freudian or nerubabble stuff for no reason just to make themselves seem relevant | 06:24 |
| ryouma | but it could have been, say, beans | 06:25 |
| IronY | if it was beans, it would probably also lead to tp ;) | 06:27 |
| IronY | *drum roll* | 06:27 |
| tinwhiskers | https://www.jci.org/articles/view/138003 - The convalescent sera option for containing COVID-19 | 06:42 |
| yuriwho | interesting article on a primitive/easy to manufacture ventilator https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/pandemic-ventilator-coronvirus-hospitals-1.5493830 | 06:51 |
| yuriwho | tinwhiskers: Takeda Pharmaceuticals has a huge effort on that approach | 06:53 |
| tinwhiskers | nice. any positive signs of being useful? | 06:54 |
| tinwhiskers | That seems like speculation rather than evidence | 06:54 |
| tinwhiskers | (my link, that is) | 06:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Australia to impose self-quarantine on all arrivals, American slashes international flights → https://is.gd/YQFtE7 | 06:58 |
| Dude42 | Russia has confirmed 14 new cases of coronavirus, bringing the total to 59 | 07:04 |
| Dude42 | 2,759 in united states | 07:08 |
| adventurer | https://www.theaustralian.com.au/world/the-times/like-drowning-in-air-lung-damage-from-serious-coronavirus-cases-may-take-years-to-heal/news-story/45e58e0725a93870bdc11491786e2f6e | 07:10 |
| balaa[m] | Dude42: | 07:10 |
| balaa[m] | they must be behind on testing | 07:11 |
| balaa[m] | <adventurer "https://www.theaustralian.com.au"> paywall | 07:12 |
| adventurer | oh i didn't get a paywall | 07:12 |
| adventurer | oh you got to open it in an incognito window to view it | 07:13 |
| adventurer | copy and past into a windows edge incognito window and it works | 07:14 |
| adventurer | one day the police come to my door...did you tell peopel how to view the news for free?? | 07:14 |
| Poon_ | lol | 07:15 |
| tinwhiskers | Estimating the asymptomatic proportion of coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) cases on board the Diamond Princess cruise ship, Yokohama, Japan, 2020 (https://eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.10.2000180) -tldr; 17.9% (95%CrI: 15.5–20.2%) (but there are some problems with the study) | 07:17 |
| Dude42 | 134408 survivors of infected | 07:23 |
| balaa[m] | Dude42: total recovered? | 07:24 |
| Dude42 | yes | 07:24 |
| tinwhiskers | huh? total recovered worldwide is only 72000 | 07:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 06:11 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: In arrivo il decreto economico questo pomeriggio → https://is.gd/zhqR8z | 07:25 |
| Dude42 | 62408 recovering | 07:30 |
| tinwhiskers | o.O | 07:31 |
| tinwhiskers | There seems to be more and more evidence building that Hydroxychloroquine can be useful in both prevention and treatment of covid-19. We might have something useful to mitigate the effects in a useful time frame instead of having to wait a year for a vaccine. | 07:37 |
| balaa[m] | yes with Zinc, 500mg twice daily | 07:38 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, with zinc | 07:38 |
| balaa[m] | I hear that Hydroxychloroquine is banned in the US tho | 07:38 |
| balaa[m] | so go figure | 07:38 |
| tinwhiskers | still, promising | 07:38 |
| tinwhiskers | There's still some risk so I wouldn't recommend diving in to that treatment :-) | 07:40 |
| tinwhiskers | Some experts warn it could *increase* your chance of getting the virus. | 07:41 |
| balaa[m] | its not banned in the US | 07:42 |
| tinwhiskers | ah. nice | 07:43 |
| balaa[m] | https://www.pharmaceutical-technology.com/comment/parallel-export-covid-19/ | 07:43 |
| tinwhiskers | But most usefully it can (possibly) mitigate the cytokine storm in severe cases | 07:44 |
| balaa[m] | got a link> | 07:45 |
| balaa[m] | ? | 07:45 |
| tinwhiskers | and much more worth the risk using in then. A healthy person taking it make put themselves at risk when the disease may not be severe for them anyway | 07:45 |
| tinwhiskers | balaa[m]: struggling to find any compelling articles, but a fair bit of anecdotal that I've been reading recently. | 07:49 |
| tinwhiskers | https://www.unboundmedicine.com/medline/citation/32150618/In_Vitro_Antiviral_Activity_and_Projection_of_Optimized_Dosing_Design_of_Hydroxychloroquine_for_the_Treatment_of_Severe_Acute_Respiratory_Syndrome_Coronavirus_2_(SARS-CoV-2). | 07:51 |
| tinwhiskers | although that's in vitro, it's being used on the ground in severe (hopeless) cases with some good results too | 07:52 |
| adventurer | balaa[m], taht's a high mg of zinc much more than the daily recommended dose...is there some source you got that from? | 07:53 |
| adventurer | wouldn't that risk zinc toxidity | 07:54 |
| adventurer | toxicity | 07:54 |
| balaa[m] | looking | 07:54 |
| balaa[m] | unrelated: moderna has a vaccine and is delivering it to world health officials? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ek3T8xiu1Fw | 07:55 |
| balaa[m] | thats why Trump isn't worried about getting it | 07:55 |
| balaa[m] | he's vaccinated | 07:55 |
| balaa[m] | 500mg is for the chloroquine; not medical advice; I am not a docotor | 07:57 |
| balaa[m] | https://twitter.com/TheLoreOfHiking/status/1238942263285354498?s=20 | 07:57 |
| tinwhiskers | The drug has been used in treating 285 critically ill COVID-19 patients in a hospital in Wuhan, and no obvious adverse reactions have been found so far. In the latest version of the treatment guideline, Chloroquine Phosphate is recommended for COVID-19 patients from 18 to 65. The amount for patients over 50 kg is 500 mg per dose twice a day for seven days http://www.china.org.cn/china/Off_the_Wire/2020-03/06/content_75783296.htm | 07:58 |
| mandiblegrip | "china.org.cn" | 08:00 |
| tinwhiskers | well, I did say anecdotal | 08:00 |
| mandiblegrip | tinwhiskers: I've consistently heard whisperings of chloroquine, remdisivir, "AIDS drugs cocktail" and megadoses of atypically administered vitamin C. | 08:01 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +146 cases (now 157153), +3 deaths (now 5844), +13 recoveries (now 75939) 🔸 Afghanistan: +5 cases (now 16) 🔸 Algeria: +2 cases (now 39) 🔸 Argentina: +11 cases (now 45) 🔸 Armenia: +2 cases (now 20) 🔸 Australia: +12 cases (now 262) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +4 cases (now 19), +3 recoveries (now 6) 🔸 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +3 cases (now 21) 🔸 Bulgaria: +4 cases (now 41) 🔸 Canada: +27 cases (now 252) 🔸 Albe | 08:01 |
| mandiblegrip | tinwhiskers: I'm not denigrating your suggestion, just adding information. | 08:02 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah... well there's always someone pushing megadoses of vit C. That's likely rubbish | 08:02 |
| mandiblegrip | tinwhiskers: Probably yes. I saw some hyperlinks but I didn't follow them in the flurry of information all over the place. | 08:02 |
| balaa[m] | like IV liposomal vitamin C | 08:02 |
| p_hpd[m] | what about Denmark ? | 08:02 |
| tinwhiskers | This WHO report talks about it a bit as well: https://www.who.int/docs/default-source/coronaviruse/who-china-joint-mission-on-covid-19-final-report.pdf | 08:03 |
| mandiblegrip | tinwhiskers: I want to find that link with the vitamin C thing, but it was weeks ago now on some random website. | 08:03 |
| tinwhiskers | No mention of viatmin C of course :-) | 08:03 |
| tinwhiskers | mandiblegrip: don't bother. | 08:03 |
| mandiblegrip | tinwhiskers: Remdisivir stuff: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remdesivir | 08:03 |
| tinwhiskers | I've heard far less positive things about that | 08:04 |
| tinwhiskers | but it'll be great to see some results coming in soon (hopefully) | 08:04 |
| mandiblegrip | Yah. I saw a pre-print of some bionformatics approach where they just crunched a bunch of numbers and spat out potentially useful molecules. | 08:05 |
| mandiblegrip | but still pretty vague. | 08:05 |
| mandiblegrip | And pre-print. | 08:05 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, yeah, I saw that too but didn't really read it | 08:06 |
| adventurer | Also not a doctor. I do uberEats. | 08:07 |
| adventurer | to make sure whatever I say is taken with a grain of salt | 08:07 |
| mandiblegrip | adventurer: Thank you for your service :) | 08:07 |
| adventurer | should always look up anything someone says anyway | 08:07 |
| adventurer | hah thanks mandiblegrip | 08:07 |
| mandiblegrip | tinwhiskers: Yeah I am pretty suspicious of the vitamin C thing, it's an old wives tale with respect to "common cold" treatment. | 08:11 |
| adventurer | on the vitamin C container it says it reduces the duration and severity of colds | 08:12 |
| balaa[m] | lookup Linus Pauling; he's the vitamin c guy | 08:13 |
| mandiblegrip | Hmmmm, I had this link in my browser history... https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04264533 | 08:17 |
| mandiblegrip | (regarding vitamin C) | 08:17 |
| tinwhiskers | Vit C megadosing is a giant con. don't waste your effort | 08:19 |
| mandiblegrip | Yeah, their little description seems to say it might help in cytokine response or something. But I agree, it's just some experiment they're doing. | 08:19 |
| adventurer | https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD000980.pub4/full | 08:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:17 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Australia to impose self-quarantine on all arrivals, American slashes international flights → https://is.gd/YQFtE7 | 08:20 |
| mandiblegrip | adventurer: Haha I like their conclusion. It's like "yeah, it might do something so just try it". | 08:23 |
| adventurer | yeah i was reading that | 08:23 |
| adventurer | basically we did all this work and ahh just try it and see what ya think yourself | 08:23 |
| mandiblegrip | hahaha | 08:23 |
| adventurer | I think it's not going to harm you to make sure you get your vitamin c with lemon juice or the vitamin c bulk can be very cheap but it might only make a fraction of a difference if it does but any difference might be good | 08:25 |
| adventurer | eat your fruit and veges | 08:26 |
| adventurer | i mean just regular tablets a bulk container is pretty cheap but lemon juice or fruit etc | 08:26 |
| adventurer | citrus | 08:26 |
| adventurer | it might do nothing but it might help a fraction | 08:27 |
| adventurer | Deepak Chopra said yes go on take it...maybe the placebo effect will help you | 08:28 |
| adventurer | when someone asked him | 08:28 |
| adventurer | lol | 08:28 |
| adventurer | asked him about vitamin c | 08:28 |
| adventurer | "Nevertheless, given the consistent effect of vitamin C on the duration and severity of colds in the regular supplementation studies, and the low cost and safety, it may be worthwhile for common cold patients to test on an individual basis whether therapeutic vitamin C is beneficial for them. Further therapeutic RCTs are warranted." | 08:29 |
| adventurer | I will make sure I get enough vitamin c. I am not going to mega does it | 08:30 |
| adventurer | "consistent effect of vitamin C on the duration and severity of colds in the regular supplementation studies" | 08:31 |
| balaa[m] | https://www.webmd.com/diet/features/the-benefits-of-vitamin-c#1 | 08:34 |
| adventurer | i think zinc lozenges are probably a cheap thing that could help given some smart people have mentioned it | 08:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 07:23 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: There are now more than 3,000 cases in the United States → https://is.gd/62KHKP | 08:34 |
| balaa[m] | its just all around good for you | 08:34 |
| balaa[m] | its used in a lot of metabolic proccesses | 08:34 |
| twomoon | ljl : Boris Johnson's herd immunity plan is freaking me out | 08:38 |
| twomoon | i just found out about it | 08:38 |
| balaa[m] | goodnight, stay safe, stay home | 08:39 |
| adventurer | Vitamin E though as a supplement has been debunked though i think | 08:39 |
| adventurer | goodnight balaa[m] | 08:39 |
| covid-20 | https://beta.ctvnews.ca/national/2020/3/13/1_4851641.html | 08:50 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +259 cases (now 157412), +2 recoveries (now 75941) 🔶 Austria: +103 cases (now 758) 🔸 Afghanistan: +5 cases (now 16) 🔸 Algeria: +2 cases (now 39) 🔸 Argentina: +11 cases (now 45) 🔸 Armenia: +2 cases (now 20) 🔸 Australia: +33 cases (now 283) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +4 cases (now 19), +3 recoveries (now 6) 🔸 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +3 cases (now 21) 🔸 Bulgaria: +6 cases (now 43) 🔸 Canada: +27 cases (now | 08:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 07:57 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Stati Uniti → https://is.gd/PKESq1 | 09:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:02 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Australia to impose self-quarantine on all arrivals, American slashes international flights → https://is.gd/YQFtE7 | 09:15 |
| chu | %data germany | 09:36 |
| Brainstorm | chu: In all areas, Germany, there are 4599 cases, 9 deaths (0.2% of cases), 46 recoveries as of March 15, 08:35Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 09:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 08:53 UTC: Coronavirus: Isolation for over-70s 'within weeks': Action to isolate over-70s to shield them from coronavirus is planned in coming weeks, health secretary says. → https://is.gd/8MwD4f | 09:57 |
| IronY | https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4192643/files | 09:57 |
| astraliam[m] | !cases italy | 10:04 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +120 cases (now 157532), +5 deaths (now 5849) 🔸 Afghanistan: +5 cases (now 16) 🔸 Algeria: +8 cases (now 45) 🔸 Argentina: +11 cases (now 45) 🔸 Armenia: +2 cases (now 20) 🔸 Australia: +33 cases (now 283), +1 deaths (now 4) 🔸 Austria: +42 cases (now 800) 🔸 Croatia: +7 cases (now 46) 🔸 Finland: +14 cases (now 239) 🔸 Greece: +1 deaths (now 4) 🔸 Hungary: +2 cases (now 32) 🔸 Jordan: +5 cases (now | 10:17 |
| thomash | poland 104 3 deaths | 10:17 |
| p_hpd[m] | how many are infected in Denmark? | 10:18 |
| JsonJuri[m] | https://youtu.be/C98FmoZVbjs | 10:19 |
| JsonJuri[m] | !cases denmark | 10:20 |
| JsonJuri[m] | %data denmark | 10:20 |
| Brainstorm | JsonJuri[m]: In all areas, Denmark, there are 836 cases, 1 deaths (0.1% of cases), 1 recoveries as of March 15, 09:17Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Denmark for time series data. | 10:20 |
| oguz_ | !cases england | 10:23 |
| oguz_ | !cases egypt | 10:23 |
| CatButtes[m] | !cases United Kingdom | 10:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:14 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Australia to impose self-quarantine on all arrivals, American slashes international flights → https://is.gd/YQFtE7 | 10:24 |
| azbycx | Only way to get states showing on the offloop.net site to just enter default=Michigan ? | 10:28 |
| azbycx | where Michigan is any state? | 10:29 |
| CatButtes[m] | azbycx: click on the little arrow to the left of the US entry. It should expand out to show the states | 10:36 |
| CatButtes[m] | Same option is available for China and a few other places | 10:36 |
| adventurer | https://t.co/iy2EDudse5?amp=1 | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <gonzobot> Title: https://bbc.in/2Wevd7f | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <azbycx> guess I could try launching a steam rocket ship like the flatearther did. go out on my own terms. lol | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <IronY> azbycx: Gotta applaud is conviction | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <IronY> except the last thing he learned before he died, was he was wrong | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <azbycx> lol | 10:37 |
| adventurer | * IndoAnon has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) | 10:37 |
| adventurer | * tsaka__ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) | 10:37 |
| adventurer | * IndoAnon (~IndoAnon@unaffiliated/indoanon) has joined | 10:37 |
| adventurer | * genera (~genera@unaffiliated/genera) has joined | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <LeoBodnar> azbycx: you can learn and teach others while you are still alive | 10:37 |
| adventurer | * srji (~srji@h2791663.stratoserver.net) has joined | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <azbycx> any live feeds of someone older and infected? | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <LeoBodnar> live feeds? | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <mandiblegrip> azbycx: Are there live feeds of people with COVID-19? | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <azbycx> web cam | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <LeoBodnar> do you mean someone streaming themselves dying? | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <LeoBodnar> c'mon | 10:37 |
| IronY | adventurer: ? | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <IronY> That would be the weirdest f**** twitch niche ever | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <azbycx> yeah, well someone streaming themselves as they progress though it. | 10:37 |
| oguz_ | !cases turkey | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <LeoBodnar> maybe search 4chan | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <azbycx> tom hanks would have been an interesting one. | 10:37 |
| adventurer | * rajrajraj has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <LeoBodnar> they probably hacked into someone's security camera and having a wankfest watching someone die | 10:37 |
| adventurer | <azbycx> not saing we want them to die. | 10:38 |
| adventurer | <azbycx> but how do they go though all the stages. | 10:38 |
| adventurer | <azbycx> and hopefully live. | 10:38 |
| adventurer | <IronY> that would involve hacking ICU cams | 10:38 |
| adventurer | shit | 10:38 |
| adventurer | accident | 10:38 |
| adventurer | you can ban me i am an idiot | 10:38 |
| adventurer | I accidently pasted that but meant to paste a link | 10:38 |
| LeoBodnar | lol | 10:38 |
| adventurer | This link https://www.sbs.com.au/news/this-sydney-doctor-believes-australia-can-avoid-a-covid-19-public-health-crisis-here-s-how | 10:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 09:34 UTC: Coronavirus: Isolation for over-70s 'within weeks': Action to isolate over-70s to shield them from coronavirus is planned in coming weeks, health secretary says. → https://is.gd/8MwD4f | 10:38 |
| aeth | that's just the other coronavirus channel | 10:38 |
| LeoBodnar | don't stress over it adventurer, it happens | 10:38 |
| aeth | I thought it was some weird mirror for a second... | 10:39 |
| aeth | well, not mirror, bridge. | 10:39 |
| aeth | !cases italy | 10:40 |
| azbycx | lol | 10:41 |
| sneep | Hmm, can't remember the last time I had a cold | 10:42 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +139 cases (now 157671) 🔸 Afghanistan: +5 cases (now 16) 🔸 Algeria: +8 cases (now 45) 🔸 Argentina: +11 cases (now 45) 🔸 Armenia: +2 cases (now 20) 🔸 Australia: +33 cases (now 283), +1 deaths (now 4) 🔸 Austria: +42 cases (now 800) 🔸 Croatia: +7 cases (now 46) 🔸 Finland: +15 cases (now 240) 🔸 France: +30 cases (now 4499) 🔸 Germany: +50 cases (now 4649) 🔸 Greece: +1 deaths (now 4) 🔸 Hungar | 10:44 |
| azbycx | %data california | 10:52 |
| Brainstorm | azbycx: In California, US, there are 368 cases, 5 deaths (1.4% of cases), 6 recoveries as of March 15, 04:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 10:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:50 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: American slashes international flights, Congo and Uzbekistan confirm first cases → https://is.gd/YQFtE7 | 10:52 |
| azbycx | s/california/washington | 10:54 |
| Brainstorm | azbycx meant to say: %data washington | 10:54 |
| azbycx | %data washington | 10:55 |
| Brainstorm | azbycx: In Washington, US, there are 642 cases, 40 deaths (6.2% of cases), 1 recoveries as of March 15, 04:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 10:55 |
| Timvde | Soo, this has probably been discussed at large here | 11:04 |
| Timvde | What's the consensus about the UK's strategy? | 11:04 |
| mefistofeles | I don't think there's one | 11:07 |
| CatButtes[m] | I’m personally of the opinion that there is incompetence/misunderstanding at the highest levels of government combined with collective responsibility making it so those involved in the process can’t speak out | 11:08 |
| JsonJuri[m] | https://youtu.be/C98FmoZVbjs from the uk | 11:09 |
| mefistofeles | %title | 11:10 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From youtu.be: Coronavirus special: Are we doing enough? - YouTube | 11:10 |
| JsonJuri[m] | 99% says no | 11:11 |
| mefistofeles | %data Germany | 11:13 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Germany, there are 4649 cases, 9 deaths (0.2% of cases), 46 recoveries as of March 15, 10:04Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 11:13 |
| Timvde | %cases Belgium | 11:16 |
| Brainstorm | Timvde: In all areas, Belgium, there are 689 cases, 4 deaths (0.6% of cases), 1 recoveries as of March 14, 11:53Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Belgium for time series data. | 11:16 |
| Timvde | 197 new, 886 now | 11:16 |
| Timvde | Oh, I missed he fourth death :/ | 11:16 |
| sneep | Timvde: Lucky | 11:23 |
| Timvde | lucky? | 11:23 |
| JsonJuri[m] | I wonder if there is any data of how many people have been tested per country | 11:23 |
| Timvde | JsonJuri[m]: I don't think here they even test anymore if you're not in a risk group | 11:23 |
| Timvde | Symptoms? Stay at home. | 11:23 |
| Timvde | Come back if it gets worse. | 11:24 |
| JsonJuri[m] | But they should | 11:24 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | This is just a flue like any ohter | 11:24 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | No need to pabic | 11:24 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | Panic | 11:24 |
| Timvde | R3DP1LL[m]: /s? | 11:24 |
| JsonJuri[m] | I see in Taiwan CDC total tests 16000 | 11:25 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | Tests manufactured in China? LOL | 11:25 |
| mefistofeles | JsonJuri[m]: countries like Taiwan, Korea or Singapore were already prepared for this since las SARS outbreak in 2003 | 11:26 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | This is all one big false flag | 11:26 |
| mefistofeles | you cannot ask hte same for countries in the west | 11:26 |
| JsonJuri[m] | They didn't take it serious enough | 11:27 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | Guess who made it | 11:27 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Even now they don't listen and they can see the results from Italy | 11:27 |
| mefistofeles | JsonJuri[m]: it's not that easy | 11:27 |
| mefistofeles | R3DP1LL[m]: stop spreading misinformation, please | 11:27 |
| Timvde | R3DP1LL[m]: don't say that too loud, or Trump will say "Okay, stop elections, I'll stay president forever" | 11:28 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | More people die from Aids and Cancer | 11:28 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | I like that | 11:28 |
| Timvde | R3DP1LL[m]: ... for now | 11:28 |
| mefistofeles | JsonJuri[m]: Italy is not the norm, fortunately, but yes... it is still pretty bad there | 11:28 |
| Timvde | And I hope you wouldn't like Trump to become a life-long dictator | 11:28 |
| Timvde | Even if you like him, that's not a good thing | 11:28 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | Don't you still understand what this is about? Look | 11:28 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-lockdown-helps-italian-police-nab-leading-mobster-171011765.html?guccounter=1 | 11:29 |
| Timvde | R3DP1LL[m]: That's basically the worst GDPR pop-up I have ever seen | 11:30 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | > JsonJuri: Italy is not the norm, fortunately, but yes... it is still pretty bad there | 11:31 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | Are you from Italy, do you live there? | 11:31 |
| Biep[m] | On https://offloop.net/covid19/, why do the Netherlands have Channel Islands? | 11:31 |
| JsonJuri[m] | %data Netherlands | 11:32 |
| Brainstorm | JsonJuri[m]: In all areas, Netherlands, there are 959 cases, 12 deaths (1.3% of cases), 2 recoveries as of March 14, 22:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands for time series data. | 11:32 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | Hmm. And I wonder why this has been removed from this channel? | 11:33 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | Does anyone listen Q? | 11:33 |
| JsonJuri[m] | @Biep:matrix.org: I don't see any? Only Netherlands | 11:35 |
| mefistofeles | %data Argentina | 11:36 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Argentina, there are 45 cases, 2 deaths (4.4% of cases), 1 recoveries as of March 15, 10:35Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Argentina for time series data. | 11:36 |
| mefistofeles | %data Colombia | 11:36 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Colombia, there are 24 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 15, 10:35Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Colombia for time series data. | 11:36 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Colombia is still safe | 11:37 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Oh 24 I see | 11:37 |
| mefistofeles | apparently, I'm pretty sure many true cases there are not being tested | 11:37 |
| sneep | R3DP1LL[m]: get off the internets | 11:37 |
| Biep[m] | <JsonJuri[m] "@Biep:matrix.org: I don't see an"> It has been corrected in the meantime, it seems. I wrote this yesterday, but it didn't get sent. Indeed now there no longer are sub-branches of the Netherlands. | 11:38 |
| mefistofeles | Biep[m]: the data comes from the JHU, afaik, so whatever they do gets reflected in offloop.net/covid19 | 11:38 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | <sneep "R3DP1LL: get off the internets"> get off yourself | 11:39 |
| Biep[m] | OK, I see. | 11:39 |
| Biep[m] | <R3DP1LL[m] "get off yourself"> How does one do that? Getting off oneself? I suppose one has to be *on* oneself to start with.. | 11:39 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | Oj, you're a smartass | 11:40 |
| Timvde | %cases Japan | 11:42 |
| Brainstorm | Timvde: In all areas, Japan, there are 825 cases, 22 deaths (2.7% of cases), 144 recoveries as of March 15, 10:35Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Japan for time series data. | 11:42 |
| Timvde | In another channel, I read 1000 new cases today | 11:43 |
| Timvde | If that'd be true, that'd be horrible | 11:43 |
| Timvde | (or just good testing) | 11:43 |
| mefistofeles | Timvde: for Japan? Do they tell where they get their info from? | 11:43 |
| Timvde | mefistofeles: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries | 11:44 |
| Timvde | But apparently that includes numbers from a cruise shi | 11:44 |
| Timvde | sihp* | 11:45 |
| Timvde | shpi* | 11:45 |
| Timvde | ship* | 11:45 |
| Timvde | goddammit :P | 11:45 |
| h4p0 | hello everyone | 11:45 |
| LeoBodnar | How's Turkey doing? | 11:45 |
| Timvde | %cases Turkey | 11:45 |
| Brainstorm | Timvde: In all areas, Turkey, there are 6 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 15, 10:35Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 11:45 |
| light | still a facist state | 11:45 |
| Timvde | That's either very low or a lie | 11:45 |
| mefistofeles | probably just no testing at all | 11:46 |
| astraliam[m] | Looking to explore decentralised social graphing. Any one here into this? | 11:47 |
| mefistofeles | astraliam[m]: how does that work? | 11:47 |
| chu | %data germany | 11:50 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +251 cases (now 157962), +1 recoveries (now 75943) 🔶 Belgium: +197 cases (now 886) 🔸 Czechia: +17 cases (now 231) 🔸 Denmark: +28 cases (now 864) 🔸 Faeroe Islands: +2 cases (now 11) 🔸 Finland: +4 cases (now 244) 🔸 Liechtenstein: +3 cases (now 7) 🔸 Maldives: +2 cases (now 13) 🔸 Malta: +1 recoveries (now 2) 🔸 Norway: +6 cases (now 1133) 🔸 Saint Lucia: +1 cases (now 2) 🔸 Slovakia: +10 cases | 11:50 |
| mefistofeles | wait for it :P | 11:50 |
| Brainstorm | chu: In all areas, Germany, there are 4649 cases, 9 deaths (0.2% of cases), 46 recoveries as of March 15, 10:47Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 11:51 |
| tristanstoeber[m | %data germany | 11:59 |
| Brainstorm | ConnectionError: HTTPConnectionPool(host='offloop.net', port=80): Max retries exceeded with url: /covid19h/unconfirmed.csv (Caused by NewConnectionError('<urllib3.connection.HTTPConnection object at 0x7fb47f0fb390>: Failed to establish a new connection: [Errno 110] Connection timed out',)) (file "/home/brainstorm/.local/share/virtualenvs/bot-xPCSx1pa/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 516, in send) | 12:01 |
| mefistofeles | woot | 12:05 |
| JsonJuri[m] | https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-19-tests-country | 12:07 |
| mefistofeles | ah nice one | 12:10 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Yes but shocking | 12:11 |
| mefistofeles | JsonJuri[m]: how so? | 12:11 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Not so many tests yet | 12:12 |
| mefistofeles | JsonJuri[m]: well, it's not an easy thing to do, most countries cannot afford testing everyone | 12:13 |
| JsonJuri[m] | This list not really updated though | 12:13 |
| mefistofeles | yes, info on testing is not updated frequently and it's a bit noisy | 12:13 |
| JsonJuri[m] | True but some countries can | 12:15 |
| mefistofeles | JsonJuri[m]: sure, that's expected, to be more prepared and wealthy countries that can afford it | 12:19 |
| mefistofeles | like Korea or Singapore | 12:19 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Yes but also in Europe | 12:19 |
| Zalyssa | it's not just that, it's also availability of testing materials | 12:20 |
| mefistofeles | I don't think you can compare Europe with those countries, tbh | 12:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:10 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: American slashes international flights, Congo and Uzbekistan confirm first cases → https://is.gd/YQFtE7 | 12:20 |
| Zalyssa | apparently one of the reagents involved is in shortage now | 12:20 |
| JsonJuri[m] | I wonder where the tests are manufactured? Is it in many countries? | 12:22 |
| astraliam[m] | mefistofeles: in rural areas, we could potentially use social graphing to identify well isolated group that can then reliably start interacting with each other more safely. If group reduce the connectivity enough it should be possible to identify the spread of virus and primitively break connections in the graph. Very much just an idea right now. | 12:22 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Surely the Netherlands can but they don't do it | 12:25 |
| JsonJuri[m] | But right maybe not enough test kits available not sure how that is going | 12:26 |
| JsonJuri[m] | I see Singapore create their own tests | 12:26 |
| mefistofeles | US Thermo Fisher will be creating a lot of them, apparently | 12:29 |
| mefistofeles | there are some other companies in Europe (French, Germany and UK, mostly) that will be also manufacturing those, or are doing that right now | 12:29 |
| JsonJuri[m] | I see us test kit costs 2400 per test wow | 12:30 |
| Zalyssa | what's that number? | 12:31 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Usd | 12:32 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Minimum 1300usd | 12:33 |
| Zalyssa | where'd you get that 2400 figure from? | 12:33 |
| JsonJuri[m] | https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2020/3/13/21178045/katie-porter-cdc-director-robert-redfield-questions | 12:36 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Not sure that's true though just trying to find out how much it costs | 12:37 |
| Zalyssa | ugh fucking google amp | 12:38 |
| Zalyssa | US$2400 seems pretty steep | 12:39 |
| mefistofeles | it's basically a RT-PCR thing, that's not necessarily cheap, fwiw | 12:41 |
| Zalyssa | even for an RT-PCR test | 12:42 |
| fujisan | HELP | 12:44 |
| Zalyssa | ok | 12:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:46 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Rep. Ceca → https://is.gd/0qqgly | 12:48 |
| mirsal | <fujisan "HELP"> ? | 12:48 |
| fujisan | how do you deal with the panic | 12:49 |
| fujisan | of having enough food while everyone is hoarding | 12:49 |
| mirsal | fujisan: mutual aid, sharing and caring for each other | 12:51 |
| fujisan | im really bad at social things i have autism | 12:51 |
| mefistofeles | fujisan: family? | 12:51 |
| Zalyssa | buy small amounts from a range of stores depending on where you live, and maybe find out what time/day they restock so you can get a jump on things | 12:51 |
| fujisan | family doesnt care about me | 12:52 |
| mefistofeles | ok | 12:52 |
| mefistofeles | just get what you can, and hope it is enough. fujisan , are you in a high risk zone? | 12:52 |
| fujisan | im in the Netherlands | 12:53 |
| fujisan | we are going into lockdown here | 12:54 |
| mefistofeles | I see | 12:54 |
| fujisan | we all saw what happened in Italy lots of panic | 12:54 |
| fujisan | where are you? | 12:54 |
| mefistofeles | Germany | 12:54 |
| fujisan | next 2 weeks i need to work from home | 12:54 |
| oxalis | %cases Austin | 12:55 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +1962 cases (now 159924), +115 deaths (now 5965), +1 recoveries (now 75944) 🔶 Malaysia: +180 cases (now 428) 🔶 Iran: +1209 cases (now 13938), +113 deaths (now 724) 🔶 Germany: +493 cases (now 5142) 🔸 Algeria: +3 cases (now 48), +1 deaths (now 4) 🔸 Armenia: +3 cases (now 23) 🔸 Hong Kong: +3 cases (now 145) 🔸 Ireland: +1 recoveries (now 1) 🔸 Malta: +3 cases (now 21) 🔸 Norway: +65 cases (n | 12:55 |
| fujisan | %cases Nijmegen | 12:55 |
| Brainstorm | fujisan: Sorry, Nijmegen not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 12:55 |
| Brainstorm | oxalis: Sorry, Austin not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 12:55 |
| fujisan | oh it's USA only | 12:55 |
| fujisan | %cases Trump | 12:56 |
| Brainstorm | fujisan: Sorry, Trump not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 12:56 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 12:56 |
| Biep[m] | %cases Netherlands | 12:58 |
| Brainstorm | Biep[m]: In all areas, Netherlands, there are 959 cases, 12 deaths (1.3% of cases), 2 recoveries as of March 14, 22:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands for time series data. | 12:58 |
| Biep[m] | fujisan: Are you in Nijmegen? | 12:58 |
| fujisan | yes | 12:58 |
| Biep[m] | So we are close. I am in Kranenburg, just around the corner. | 12:59 |
| Biep[m] | You took a Japanese nick.. | 12:59 |
| Biep[m] | Still lots of food in the stores here, and no panic at all. | 12:59 |
| fujisan | oh yes i have heard about Kranenburg | 12:59 |
| fujisan | yes but no toiletpaper | 12:59 |
| fujisan | i have 3,5 packs | 13:00 |
| fujisan | that's all | 13:00 |
| fujisan | and people are hoarding | 13:00 |
| Biep[m] | Newspapers work quite well, if you want to go that way. But I think there is toilet paper in the stores here.. | 13:00 |
| fujisan | yes but you are in Germany | 13:00 |
| fujisan | Germans are different from dutch | 13:00 |
| fujisan | i remember going to germany and not seeing littering | 13:01 |
| fujisan | in the Netherlands people litter are very egocentric | 13:01 |
| Biep[m] | You can easily come here. Bus SB58 goes directly from Nijmegen train station to the shopping centre here. | 13:01 |
| Biep[m] | I am Dutch, by the way. Kranenburg is bilingual. | 13:01 |
| fujisan | yes okay | 13:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 11:55 UTC: Americans trying to buy up the only company working on a vaccine... so they can deny it to the world!: Since colonial times Americans have considered disease a good way to "cull" those they consider undesirable; they don't even want their own people to get healthcare. → https://is.gd/xupNYk | 13:01 |
| fujisan | but still the hoarding here shows egocentrism | 13:02 |
| JsonJuri[m] | %data Netherlands | 13:02 |
| Brainstorm | JsonJuri[m]: In all areas, Netherlands, there are 959 cases, 12 deaths (1.3% of cases), 2 recoveries as of March 14, 22:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands for time series data. | 13:02 |
| fujisan | https://www.npostart.nl/live/npo-1 news | 13:02 |
| fujisan | schools are closing | 13:02 |
| fujisan | on monday | 13:02 |
| Biep[m] | OK, so they are egocentric. Is now the time to deal with that? | 13:02 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Just now read nl from 958 to 6000 | 13:02 |
| Biep[m] | JsonJuri: 6000 cases in the Netherlands? | 13:03 |
| JsonJuri[m] | GGD-directeur: 'Nu 6000 Nederlanders besmet met coronavirus' rtl nieuws | 13:03 |
| Biep[m] | I guess we'll see it in a few minutes in the Brainstorm data then. 6000>50. | 13:04 |
| JsonJuri[m] | https://www.rtlnieuws.nl/nieuws/nederland/artikel/5056941/ggd-chef-al-6000-mensen-besmet-met-coronaviurs | 13:04 |
| Biep[m] | I suppose this massively helps reaching the Paris goals.. | 13:04 |
| Biep[m] | All those activities (and emissions) being suspended. | 13:05 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Yes they are doing great... | 13:05 |
| fujisan | yeah Netherlands will be worse than Italy and we have less capacity per capita | 13:05 |
| Biep[m] | Oh, it's modelled. We need modelled data, as there is so much underreporting. | 13:05 |
| fujisan | medical capacity | 13:05 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Even Italy have much more capicity Lombardy is very rich and heard they score very high on medical services | 13:07 |
| corecode | hi | 13:07 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Worried about the Netherlands | 13:07 |
| corecode | being worried doesn't help | 13:08 |
| JsonJuri[m] | So what does help? | 13:08 |
| corecode | social distancing | 13:08 |
| mefistofeles | the situation is nowhere near to Italy's for the Netherlands, fwiw | 13:08 |
| mefistofeles | bu of course, there's still a lot that can happen | 13:08 |
| oguzkoroglu | !cases turkey | 13:09 |
| JsonJuri[m] | They will be worse | 13:09 |
| corecode | mefistofeles: yet | 13:09 |
| JsonJuri[m] | They handle it like amateurs | 13:09 |
| corecode | amateurs would handle it lovingly | 13:09 |
| mefistofeles | corecode: tenency is also different, way better for the Netherlands | 13:09 |
| JsonJuri[m] | Schools still open | 13:09 |
| aradesh | why do italy's numbers keep going up? aren't they applying quite strict conttrols now? | 13:10 |
| fujisan | because this is the end of the world as we know it | 13:10 |
| aradesh | UK up to over 20 deaths | 13:10 |
| corecode | results lag by a week or so | 13:10 |
| corecode | because you don't know all the infected cases | 13:11 |
| mefistofeles | aradesh: incubation time, it's still too soon | 13:11 |
| fujisan | corona is a very dangerous disease | 13:11 |
| corecode | plus incubation, yes | 13:11 |
| mefistofeles | to know if the lockdown measurements have worked | 13:11 |
| corecode | fujisan: compared to what? | 13:11 |
| fujisan | lockdown of 2 weeks is too short | 13:11 |
| fujisan | it will last for months | 13:11 |
| corecode | 4 weeks is probably fine | 13:11 |
| corecode | to go back to containment | 13:12 |
| fujisan | and the worse thing is that the virus can mutate and come back in a 2nd wave next flu season like the Spanish flu did | 13:12 |
| corecode | and tracing | 13:12 |
| fujisan | this is the first wave | 13:12 |
| corecode | conjecture | 13:12 |
| fujisan | yes ofc. isaid can | 13:12 |
| mefistofeles | fujisan: you cannot compare this to the spanish flu, at all | 13:12 |
| corecode | and it is true for any virus | 13:12 |
| corecode | so, useless | 13:12 |
| corecode | stick to current facts | 13:12 |
| mefistofeles | ↑ | 13:12 |
| X-Scale | Portugal has released new data: It jumped from 169 to 245 cases, showing 76 new cases. | 13:13 |
| mefistofeles | %data portugal | 13:13 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Portugal, there are 169 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 2 recoveries as of March 14, 16:14Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Portugal for time series data. | 13:13 |
| mefistofeles | not updated there yet | 13:13 |
| corecode | is portugal still tracing? | 13:13 |
| X-Scale | In portuguese: https://www.noticiasaominuto.com/pais/1433499/covid-19-numero-de-casos-confirmados-em-portugal-sobe-para-245 | 13:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 12:10 UTC: Coronavirus: What is the 'delay' stage of the UK's plans?: What is the government and the NHS doing now and how could these plans change if the outbreak worsens? → https://is.gd/lke5gu | 13:15 |
| mefistofeles | https://medium.com/nightingale/ten-considerations-before-you-create-another-chart-about-covid-19-27d3bd691be8 | 13:22 |
| mefistofeles | %title | 13:22 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From medium.com: Ten Considerations Before You Create Another Chart About COVID-19 | 13:23 |
| corecode | lol | 13:23 |
| corecode | we need more infographics! | 13:23 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: hey, how are things going? | 13:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 12:14 UTC: worldnews: Livethread: Global COVID-19 Pandemic → https://is.gd/m6MLGH | 13:29 |
| jiffe | so I see a lot of data around how the death rate of cov19 compares to the flu, anyone seen anything about how severe cases compares? | 13:39 |
| corecode | that comparison is useless | 13:41 |
| corecode | bad comparison | 13:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 12:34 UTC: /u/Isentrope: Constantine 🤔 su Twitter: "Locations of the 39 new cases per @OfficialJoelF. Broward County appears to be epicenter. Total confirmed in Florida now 115.… https://t.co/PznPHMTFcu" → https://is.gd/cPYs74 | 13:43 |
| jiffe | corecode: how is that a bad comparison? | 13:43 |
| X-Scale | http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/DrudgeReportFeed/~3/wA19ksB5jkg/ | 13:44 |
| corecode | because the flu has existing partial immunity | 13:44 |
| corecode | this one does not at all | 13:44 |
| jiffe | that's fine, its still a comparison of how the flu burdens the health care system as compared to cov19 right now | 13:45 |
| corecode | also this one is developing, and we don't know the numbers | 13:45 |
| greyman | %data turkey | 13:45 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +969 cases (now 160893), +2 deaths (now 5967) 🔶 Switzerland: +841 cases (now 2217) 🔸 Albania: +4 cases (now 42) 🔸 Algeria: +3 cases (now 48), +1 deaths (now 4) 🔸 Armenia: +3 cases (now 23) 🔸 Australia: +1 cases (now 300) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +4 cases (now 23) 🔸 Brunei: +10 cases (now 50) 🔸 Denmark: +1 deaths (now 2) 🔸 India: +1 cases (now 108) 🔸 Morocco: +10 cases (now 28) 🔸 Norway: +1 cases (n | 13:45 |
| corecode | the flu exists and we don't know the numbers | 13:45 |
| Brainstorm | greyman: In all areas, Turkey, there are 6 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 15, 12:35Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 13:45 |
| corecode | what do you want to know in the end? | 13:45 |
| aradesh | switzerland +841! | 13:46 |
| corecode | lul? | 13:46 |
| jiffe | corecode: midterm health care impacts | 13:46 |
| corecode | not surprised | 13:46 |
| corecode | jiffe: qualify midterm? | 13:47 |
| corecode | 2 months? | 13:47 |
| corecode | the problem is that we don't have good data on how many people need to be hospitalized or ventilated | 13:47 |
| jiffe | cases requiring hospitalization, not just quick/testing visits | 13:47 |
| corecode | italy has crazy high numbers | 13:48 |
| jiffe | yeah but those numbers seem relevant | 13:48 |
| corecode | so there seems to be some population component | 13:48 |
| corecode | i'd say, independent of how many people need to be hospitalized, how many people are currently infected? | 13:48 |
| corecode | because if just 1% of the population is currently affected, and the infection keeps spreading, you're still going to severely overwhelm the system | 13:49 |
| corecode | or am i missing something? | 13:49 |
| jiffe | the numbers I saw were 10% severe requiring hospitalization, but those are old numbers, not seen anything updated lately | 13:51 |
| corecode | yea, because we don't know how many people have it | 13:51 |
| corecode | we only know how many people were tested positive | 13:51 |
| pwr22 | My friend has just chosen to stay in Japan for another 2 months instead of coming back to the UK tomorrow | 13:52 |
| pwr22 | He's in Osaka | 13:52 |
| pwr22 | I think | 13:52 |
| corecode | pwr22: excellent choice | 13:52 |
| jiffe | we still have numbers of who tested positive though, that doesn't invalidate other numbers untl better data is available | 13:52 |
| corecode | jiffe: yes, but how many of the total population are those? | 13:52 |
| jiffe | are those what? infected? looks like 3000 out of 300M right now | 13:53 |
| corecode | oh you're talking about the US? | 13:53 |
| corecode | i thought you were talking about italy | 13:54 |
| jiffe | all I'm interested in, but global numbers are no different | 13:54 |
| iz | usa hasn't even tested 16k cases yet | 13:54 |
| corecode | okay | 13:54 |
| corecode | i'll give an example, and please let me know if i'm making a mistake here | 13:54 |
| corecode | italy has around 20k people as positive, and around 2000 people in icu | 13:55 |
| corecode | so that's 10% | 13:55 |
| corecode | now, are there only 20k people who are positive, and everybody else (60 million) are negative? | 13:55 |
| jiffe | no and everybody knows that's the case | 13:55 |
| corecode | or is it positive that the 20k positives are those that were tested positive, and there are actually 2 million positive cases | 13:55 |
| jiffe | but we don't have numbers for unknown positives so we have to work with the numbers we know | 13:56 |
| corecode | those two cases would mean a hugely different rate of ICU requirements | 13:56 |
| corecode | i see what you're saying, but i don't think they are reliable at all | 13:56 |
| mefistofeles | corecode: basically, it's just saying that the 10% of those being diagnosed/tested need ICU | 13:56 |
| corecode | i think the positive numbers are largely dominated by testing capacities, not by actual spread | 13:56 |
| corecode | mefistofeles: but what is the testing strategy? | 13:56 |
| mefistofeles | if you do more testing you will probably lower that rate, because most mild/asymptomatic cases are not being confirmed | 13:57 |
| corecode | that's why i looked at deaths vs icu patients | 13:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Nike closes all US stores, American Airlines suspends long-haul flights → https://is.gd/Ro001B | 13:57 |
| corecode | and the death doubling rate | 13:57 |
| corecode | the lack of reliable data is a total shitshow | 13:58 |
| mefistofeles | and again, you can see that in Korea, where they did more tests per habitants | 13:58 |
| corecode | yes, korea is good data | 13:58 |
| python476 | o/ | 13:58 |
| iz | in norcal they did some random testing of ppl and found there was community spreading in ppl not connected to any known cases | 13:59 |
| corecode | oh for sure | 13:59 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, tracking connections is way off the picture now | 13:59 |
| corecode | there are cases where somebody died of heart problems, on a whim they did a test, turns out, covid infection. in the middle of the country. | 13:59 |
| iz | https://www.ksro.com/2020/03/14/sonoma-county-reports-first-confirmed-case-of-community-spread-of-coronavirus/ | 13:59 |
| corecode | no connection to anybody | 13:59 |
| corecode | mefistofeles: i think it could be contained with strong measures and lots of testing | 14:00 |
| mefistofeles | again, that's expected, since most cases are not being tested | 14:00 |
| mefistofeles | corecode: easy to say, really hard to implement | 14:00 |
| corecode | yep | 14:00 |
| iz | also, besides all of the symptomatic cases that haven't been tested due to lack to tests | 14:01 |
| iz | there are also the ppl who have no symptoms, but are contagious | 14:01 |
| corecode | but unless voluntary social distancing and spring time will drastically dip the R0, it'll be a lot | 14:01 |
| mefistofeles | sure | 14:01 |
| iz | and won't be tested unless it's a random sampling | 14:01 |
| corecode | i'm not even talking about contagious spread | 14:01 |
| iz | one of those NBA players that tested positive had no symptoms | 14:01 |
| mefistofeles | no need to waste tests like that if there's already some shortage | 14:01 |
| corecode | just number of people | 14:01 |
| corecode | it's a huge difference if there are 0.1% in ICU or 10% in ICU | 14:02 |
| mefistofeles | corecode: not really | 14:02 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, 10% of tested against 0.1 of real cases (including those not tested) and if we expect 10x to be not tessted, then not much of a difference | 14:03 |
| mefistofeles | so it's not that simple | 14:03 |
| corecode | i didn't understand | 14:04 |
| IndoAnon | err | 14:06 |
| IndoAnon | let's recap | 14:06 |
| IndoAnon | how many percentage need hospitalization? | 14:07 |
| corecode | we don't know | 14:07 |
| IndoAnon | *percent | 14:07 |
| sneep | What do you mean, we don't know | 14:07 |
| corecode | how would we know? | 14:07 |
| IndoAnon | it's probably around 30% | 14:07 |
| sneep | By counting | 14:07 |
| IndoAnon | because you need to read journal for fuck sake | 14:07 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +1624 cases (now 162517), +12 deaths (now 5979), +7 recoveries (now 75951) 🔶 Spain: +1362 cases (now 7753), +12 deaths (now 208) 🔶 Germany: +239 cases (now 5381), +1 deaths (now 10) 🔸 Albania: +4 cases (now 42) 🔸 Algeria: +3 cases (now 48), +1 deaths (now 4) 🔸 Armenia: +3 cases (now 23) 🔸 Australia: +1 cases (now 300) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +4 cases (now 23) 🔸 Bahrain: +2 cases (now 214) 🔸 Brunei: +1 | 14:08 |
| corecode | but you don't know who got it but you didn't test | 14:08 |
| IndoAnon | journos is retarded... | 14:08 |
| IndoAnon | look at percentage of mild: severe: critical | 14:08 |
| corecode | yes | 14:08 |
| IndoAnon | severe need hospitalization. most of critical case need ventilator, or even ECMO | 14:09 |
| corecode | yes | 14:09 |
| corecode | do you have a link for good reliable numbers? | 14:09 |
| IndoAnon | well | 14:10 |
| IndoAnon | consider listening to Mainland chinese live stream archive | 14:10 |
| IndoAnon | if you want the numbers... like early February | 14:10 |
| corecode | did they test all people in e.g. wuhan? | 14:11 |
| IndoAnon | of those who recovered, 80% is mild cases | 14:11 |
| IndoAnon | 20% is mix of people who have been on severe & critical stages | 14:11 |
| IndoAnon | corecode: i don't think that's the case... you have seen people's door got barricaded right? not just barred | 14:12 |
| IndoAnon | bar-ed | 14:12 |
| corecode | yes | 14:13 |
| corecode | i really hope these numbers are off | 14:13 |
| sneep | Why would they be off? | 14:13 |
| corecode | because not everybody was tested | 14:14 |
| corecode | so you only have a view on a subset of people, biased towards symptomatic | 14:14 |
| mefistofeles | IndoAnon: actual numbers of hospitalization are around 10% rather | 14:14 |
| mefistofeles | fwiw | 14:15 |
| IndoAnon | it's still considerably large | 14:15 |
| corecode | it's absolutely huge | 14:15 |
| mefistofeles | again | 14:16 |
| mefistofeles | 10% of the tested cases | 14:16 |
| IndoAnon | well | 14:16 |
| corecode | mefistofeles: do you think i'm wrong? | 14:16 |
| IndoAnon | consider this | 14:16 |
| IndoAnon | mortality on best case, is 2% | 14:16 |
| corecode | maybe 0.5% | 14:16 |
| mefistofeles | no, it's lower than 1% apparently | 14:16 |
| corecode | also, case fatality rate | 14:16 |
| IndoAnon | wkwk | 14:16 |
| IndoAnon | the sample is large enough to be statistically significant | 14:17 |
| IndoAnon | of tested case | 14:17 |
| corecode | but they're not randomly sampled | 14:17 |
| IndoAnon | so, you say it's sampling issue? | 14:18 |
| corecode | yes | 14:19 |
| IndoAnon | SK did that | 14:19 |
| IndoAnon | alll of people could test | 14:19 |
| corecode | you're not testing randomly, but those that are somehow related or sick | 14:19 |
| corecode | yes, SK seems to be good data | 14:19 |
| corecode | i have no idea what that data means relative to italy | 14:20 |
| IndoAnon | ugh | 14:20 |
| IndoAnon | don't be a moron | 14:20 |
| mefistofeles | that they can afford more testing, basically... also that their population is younger | 14:20 |
| corecode | ad hominem is always good | 14:20 |
| IndoAnon | we're talking the percentage of people who need hospitalization | 14:20 |
| enver555 | hi to all | 14:20 |
| IndoAnon | because of NCoV | 14:20 |
| corecode | do we know how many needed hospitalization? | 14:21 |
| IndoAnon | yes | 14:21 |
| corecode | i tried to find this data, but nothing came up | 14:21 |
| corecode | do you have a link? | 14:21 |
| IndoAnon | that's why i told you to watch the fucking archive | 14:21 |
| mefistofeles | mind the language IndoAnon | 14:21 |
| corecode | what's up with grumpy people? | 14:22 |
| IndoAnon | hey mefistofeles | 14:22 |
| dunnp | lots of stress corecode | 14:22 |
| IndoAnon | i say | 14:22 |
| IndoAnon | please watch the archive | 14:22 |
| corecode | do you have a link? | 14:22 |
| IndoAnon | it is CGTN | 14:23 |
| dunnp | what is the archive? | 14:24 |
| corecode | that information is not easy to find then | 14:24 |
| mefistofeles | :/ | 14:24 |
| IndoAnon | >The third uncertainty is whether there are a large | 14:25 |
| IndoAnon | number of asymptomatic cases of COVID-19. Estimates suggest that about 80% of people with COVID-19 have mild or asymptomatic disease, 14% have severe disease, and 6% are critically ill,9 | 14:25 |
| IndoAnon | implying that symptom-based control is unlikely to be sufficient unless these cases are only lightly infectious. | 14:25 |
| IndoAnon | https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(20)30567-5 | 14:25 |
| mefistofeles | %title | 14:25 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From doi.org: Redirecting | 14:25 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 14:25 |
| mefistofeles | ah yes, I've read that one | 14:26 |
| mefistofeles | it's on the topic resources, fwiw | 14:26 |
| IndoAnon | >Like the clinicalmanifestations, the case-fatality rate (CFR) appears to behighlyvariable.Early reportssuggested thatitcouldbeashighas8% | 14:26 |
| IndoAnon | to 15% in olderadults infected inHubei Province. The CFR is increased inadultswith comorbid conditions who developed severe respiratory | 14:26 |
| IndoAnon | symptoms. TheCFR outside ofHubei,although based on limited data, ismuchlower,likelynohigher than 1% to 2% | 14:26 |
| IndoAnon | 10.1001/jama.2020.3072 | 14:27 |
| corecode | that text seems to agree with my statement? | 14:27 |
| corecode | it's uncertain? | 14:27 |
| mefistofeles | not entirely, and there are also variance measurements | 14:27 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +199 cases (now 162716), +91 deaths (now 6070) 🔶 Netherlands: +176 cases (now 1135), +8 deaths (now 20) 🔸 Albania: +4 cases (now 42) 🔸 Algeria: +3 cases (now 48), +1 deaths (now 4) 🔸 Armenia: +3 cases (now 23) 🔸 Australia: +1 cases (now 300) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +4 cases (now 23) 🔸 Bahrain: +2 cases (now 214) 🔸 Brunei: +10 cases (now 50) 🔸 Denmark: +1 deaths (now 2) 🔸 Japan: +9 cases (now 814), +2 | 14:28 |
| IndoAnon | >Approximately 15% to 30% of these pa- | 14:28 |
| IndoAnon | tients developed acute respiratory distress syndrome(ARDS). The WHO interim guidelines made general recommendations for treatment of ARDS in this setting, in | 14:28 |
| IndoAnon | >cluding that consideration be given to referring patients with refractory hypoxemia to expert centerscapable of providing extracorporealmembrane oxygenation (ECMO).2 | 14:28 |
| IndoAnon | 10.1001/jama.2020.2342 | 14:28 |
| dunnp | https://twitter.com/AndreasShrugged/status/1237774596557996037/photo/1 | 14:30 |
| dunnp | thoguht this was interesting in terms of young cases in SK | 14:30 |
| IndoAnon | but hey | 14:30 |
| IndoAnon | it's under the assumption of things like social distancing | 14:31 |
| IndoAnon | the reality, chezchian just went to ski... when shop and school closed | 14:31 |
| corecode | who went to ski? | 14:32 |
| IndoAnon | chezch people | 14:32 |
| IndoAnon | .cz | 14:32 |
| Zalyssa | do you mean czech? | 14:32 |
| IndoAnon | yeah | 14:32 |
| corecode | good for them | 14:32 |
| corecode | alone on the slopes | 14:32 |
| IndoAnon | no | 14:32 |
| corecode | maximum distance | 14:32 |
| dunnp | it seems that the first reaction many places was for your people to go party tbh | 14:32 |
| dunnp | young* | 14:33 |
| python476 | joke courtesy of some french city: people at the bakery all stuck near each other breathing their own ~viruses. come one dude with protections (mask,...), everybody look at him like a crazy dude, they all avoid him, thus getting even clother to each other while judging him. | 14:33 |
| IndoAnon | https://cdn.xsd.cz/original/f6fc33c4f1d03a21a4196b696cf069e9.jpg | 14:33 |
| python476 | do viruses survive less in high altitude ? | 14:36 |
| IndoAnon | no | 14:36 |
| python476 | damn altitude, so lazy | 14:36 |
| IndoAnon | only temperature matters | 14:36 |
| IndoAnon | although, porous vs solid like metal have significant difference | 14:37 |
| IndoAnon | it's experiment from 2-10 years ago | 14:37 |
| astraliam[m] | corecode: my friend in lock down in Milan reports cough and fever twice last month. Obviously no hard numbers but I think reasonable at this stage to assume tested cases are a minority of actual cases. What % is still very much the question. Hopefully it's actually less that 20% that got tested. | 14:46 |
| corecode | yea my shitty model says 5% are tested, but it's a bad shitty model, so... :) | 14:50 |
| darsie | Could anal cv introduction lead to mild disease and immunity? | 14:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 13:41 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Reuters su Twitter: "The corruption trial of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has been delayed because of #coronavirus https://t.co/Si0W7mzmRh… https://t.co/c5LnkRtFAL" → https://is.gd/XPezsm | 14:52 |
| darsie | Like, an anal vaccine with live virus. | 14:53 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +115 cases (now 162831), +3 deaths (now 6073), +1 recoveries (now 75952) 🔸 Albania: +4 cases (now 42) 🔸 Algeria: +3 cases (now 48), +1 deaths (now 4) 🔸 Armenia: +3 cases (now 23) 🔸 Australia: +1 cases (now 300) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +4 cases (now 23) 🔸 Bahrain: +2 cases (now 214) 🔸 Brunei: +10 cases (now 50) 🔸 Croatia: +3 cases (now 49) 🔸 Denmark: +1 deaths (now 2) 🔸 Hungary: +1 deaths (now 1) 🔸 J | 14:53 |
| darsie | s/live/actual | 14:53 |
| Brainstorm | darsie meant to say: Like, an anal vaccine with actual virus. | 14:53 |
| corecode | of course darsie | 14:55 |
| darsie | Or perhaps a capsule that dissolves in the colon. | 14:56 |
| corecode | tell us how it goes | 14:57 |
| IndoAnon | that would be thick ass hell if orally taken | 14:57 |
| darsie | Use spit from infected patients as source. | 14:57 |
| IndoAnon | lol | 14:58 |
| darsie | IndoAnon: You mean bold? | 14:59 |
| darsie | To boldly go where no man has gone before? | 15:00 |
| IndoAnon | the diameter would be larger than banana diameter | 15:00 |
| darsie | Which diameter? | 15:01 |
| IndoAnon | cucumber | 15:02 |
| darsie | Yes, cucumbers have larger diameters than bananas. | 15:03 |
| IndoAnon | probably that thick | 15:04 |
| darsie | what would be that thick? | 15:04 |
| darsie | The oral capsule? | 15:04 |
| IndoAnon | 99% coating | 15:05 |
| darsie | ah | 15:05 |
| IndoAnon | 1% spit | 15:05 |
| darsie | but there are capsules dissolving in the colon, right? | 15:05 |
| IndoAnon | dunno | 15:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:04 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Nike closes all US stores, American Airlines suspends long-haul flights → https://is.gd/Ro001B | 15:06 |
| IndoAnon | it's cheaper to just use suppository format | 15:06 |
| darsie | what? | 15:06 |
| IndoAnon | a pinkie thick | 15:06 |
| IndoAnon | instead of orally taken, anal is cheaper | 15:07 |
| IndoAnon | probably dual use with enema | 15:07 |
| dTal | is this discussion for real | 15:15 |
| darsie | yes | 15:15 |
| dTal | you wanna shove SARS-nCoV2 up your butt | 15:15 |
| darsie | If it works, sure. | 15:15 |
| dTal | "That's your solution to everything" | 15:15 |
| darsie | I'm asking if it could help. | 15:16 |
| dTal | Why would it? | 15:16 |
| darsie | Activate the immune system. | 15:16 |
| IndoAnon | minimal exposure | 15:16 |
| IndoAnon | although,one could get hiv from anal sex | 15:17 |
| dTal | Is there any reason to think being infected anally would result in a better prognosis? | 15:18 |
| dTal | What is the mechanism? | 15:18 |
| RougeR | python476, | 15:20 |
| RougeR | where in france are you? | 15:20 |
| RougeR | pwr22, https://giphy.com/gifs/fDO2Nk0ImzvvW | 15:22 |
| iz | lol this scrollback | 15:25 |
| python476 | RougeR: Paris | 15:26 |
| RougeR | python476, ah cool | 15:26 |
| python476 | I live in the eiffel tower | 15:26 |
| python476 | in a bed made out of baguettes | 15:26 |
| mefistofeles | IndoAnon: high altittude commonly means lower temperatures, fwiw | 15:26 |
| python476 | RougeR: how are things at your plae | 15:26 |
| python476 | place* | 15:27 |
| mefistofeles | regarding the temperature vs altitude thing | 15:27 |
| RougeR | python476, government is taking different lines from uk | 15:27 |
| RougeR | all non essential travel is being strong recommended against in and out of the island | 15:27 |
| RougeR | over 65s and vulnerable to start social distancing | 15:27 |
| darsie | dTal: cv2 is detectable (and contagious?) in stool. Dunno if it thrives in the colon. Maybe it's just there from swallowing it. If it's introduced there, maybe it can activate the immune system, producing antibodies which may then fend off a later pulmonary infection. | 15:28 |
| RougeR | shops open as normal, cafes full, bars a bit emptier for sure | 15:28 |
| iz | RougeR: did the UK reverse course on it's herd immunity plan? | 15:28 |
| corecode | darsie: is that a common way of vaccinating? | 15:28 |
| RougeR | passenger ferries and flights cancelled routes/sailings to increase freight and post | 15:28 |
| darsie | Never heard of it. | 15:28 |
| corecode | uk has a flatten the curve plan | 15:28 |
| dTal | For it to thrive in the colon it would have to t | 15:28 |
| dTal | attack the colon lining, wouldn't it? | 15:29 |
| iz | i heard they are asking the elderly to self-quarantine for like a month now | 15:29 |
| RougeR | iz, they seem to be trying to step down a bit | 15:29 |
| RougeR | but not really no | 15:29 |
| RougeR | iz, 3-4 months | 15:29 |
| RougeR | over 70s | 15:29 |
| RougeR | soon | 15:29 |
| corecode | which is not good, but i guess most countries are following this plan | 15:29 |
| RougeR | UK is still putting off social distancing | 15:29 |
| RougeR | which means it is in some ways looking to build some kind of herd immunity quicker | 15:29 |
| darsie | dTal: Maybe it can activate the immune system without attacking the colon lining. | 15:29 |
| corecode | yea probably in 2 weeks you'll get to 1% of the population being infected? | 15:29 |
| RougeR | it might be they want to release damns | 15:30 |
| dTal | which is catastrophic, we already passed the deadline for "safe infection" | 15:30 |
| RougeR | and get the nhs close to full | 15:30 |
| RougeR | but not full | 15:30 |
| corecode | what is safe infection? | 15:30 |
| RougeR | then put on the breaks | 15:30 |
| dTal | corecode: medical services not overwhelmed | 15:30 |
| corecode | RougeR: that is crazy | 15:30 |
| corecode | with the exponential spread | 15:30 |
| RougeR | i might be wrong corecode | 15:30 |
| corecode | super large overshoot | 15:30 |
| dTal | the NHS is *already* struggling to cope with the case load | 15:30 |
| RougeR | thats the worry | 15:30 |
| RougeR | dTal, yep | 15:30 |
| dTal | that's with a 1-2 week incubation lag | 15:31 |
| RougeR | they are requisitioning private hospitals and trying to recruit and trying to increase ICU and produce ventilators | 15:31 |
| corecode | i for one would be happy to ride out an infection at home and then be done with it | 15:31 |
| RougeR | tbh | 15:31 |
| RougeR | i think i might be in one of the best places in the world for this | 15:31 |
| dTal | If you don't want collapse of the medical system, social distancing should have started last week at the latest | 15:31 |
| RougeR | jersey COULD close its borders completly | 15:31 |
| RougeR | and rely largely on our agriculture industry | 15:31 |
| RougeR | we have sunny beaches, fields | 15:32 |
| corecode | yea well, people here are still running about as well | 15:32 |
| corecode | sitting in the bars | 15:32 |
| RougeR | summer is coming up | 15:32 |
| RougeR | im getting into cyclic | 15:32 |
| RougeR | cycling | 15:32 |
| corecode | no cycling on lockdown | 15:32 |
| RougeR | i might start windsurfing again | 15:32 |
| RougeR | corecode, not here | 15:32 |
| RougeR | its country side | 15:32 |
| python476 | good idea, gonna check my bike | 15:32 |
| python476 | 10$ that even with the deaths, 2021 will see people praising covid for restoring balance in the world | 15:33 |
| RougeR | as long as you avoid the main torwn here | 15:33 |
| RougeR | python476, ive heard some sayings | 15:33 |
| RougeR | i dont agree with them | 15:33 |
| RougeR | "boomer remover" | 15:33 |
| corecode | what balance? | 15:33 |
| darsie | Do ventilators need O2 to make sense? | 15:34 |
| RougeR | corecode, economic, environmental, age | 15:34 |
| corecode | doubtful | 15:34 |
| RougeR | darsie, no they dont | 15:34 |
| RougeR | they breathe for you | 15:34 |
| IndoAnon | mefistofeles: yeah... but also higher UV | 15:34 |
| darsie | ok | 15:34 |
| RougeR | i think | 15:34 |
| IndoAnon | if sun is shining... | 15:35 |
| yuriwho | "Canadian government emphasizes that any citizen who's abroad should get back home while it's still possible" <-- possible flight shutdowns | 15:35 |
| RougeR | https://hackaday.com/2020/03/12/ultimate-medical-hackathon-how-fast-can-we-design-and-deploy-an-open-source-ventilator/ | 15:35 |
| RougeR | check this out | 15:35 |
| darsie | But ... ppl can breathe themselves. They just don't absorb enough oxygen because the alveoli are inflammed. | 15:35 |
| corecode | how to kill people faster | 15:35 |
| python476 | corecode: not balancing lives | 15:35 |
| mefistofeles | IndoAnon: indeed | 15:35 |
| python476 | I mean, maybe less binge eating, more walk, more bike, more link with people (see italian making parties on balconies with neighbors) | 15:36 |
| IndoAnon | it need to be avaluated | 15:36 |
| dTal | darsie: actually no, many covid patients do not have spontaneous breathing | 15:36 |
| IndoAnon | * experiment is badly needed | 15:36 |
| yuriwho | darsie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gk_Qf-JAL84 | 15:36 |
| darsie | ok | 15:36 |
| IndoAnon | dTal: critical patients, yes | 15:36 |
| dTal | IndoAnon: by definition, yes | 15:37 |
| darsie | OTOH patients are paralyzed to prevent them to breathe more than the ventilator is set to: https://youtu.be/okg7uq_HrhQ?t=599 | 15:38 |
| yuriwho | ventilators also use positive pressure to push fluid out of alveoli and thus enable O2 exchange | 15:38 |
| IndoAnon | darsie: they need higher percentage of oxygen in air they're breathing | 15:39 |
| IndoAnon | severe scarring leads to ecmo usage | 15:39 |
| IndoAnon | however | 15:40 |
| yuriwho | forget ecmo, most major hospitals only have a few | 15:41 |
| python476 | also IIRC ecmo usually cannot be used for prolonged periods | 15:41 |
| IndoAnon | there's rumour that those with that non-functioning lungs will get organ transplant | 15:41 |
| darsie | Extracorporeal membrane oxygenation | 15:41 |
| IndoAnon | *in mainland china | 15:42 |
| corecode | organ transplant from? | 15:42 |
| yuriwho | https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/pandemic-ventilator-coronvirus-hospitals-1.5493830 | 15:42 |
| IndoAnon | dunno | 15:42 |
| darsie | pigs? | 15:42 |
| yuriwho | corecode: chines muslims | 15:42 |
| mefistofeles | :/ | 15:42 |
| corecode | rumor is fail | 15:42 |
| IndoAnon | probably from work related injuries, accidents, and prisoners of conscience | 15:43 |
| yuriwho | prisoner of conscience < nicely put | 15:43 |
| cews | 6 | 15:43 |
| darsie | 7 | 15:44 |
| cews | UK open cheque for ventilator isnt the best approach tho | 15:44 |
| cews | They have to use the same suppliers for 'quality' purposes, who supply NHS | 15:44 |
| IndoAnon | corecode: how you explain organ transplant where the system was erected 8 years after massive transplant infrastructure expansion | 15:44 |
| corecode | i don't have to | 15:44 |
| cews | Lil' late to be pumping money into NHS right now | 15:44 |
| IndoAnon | cews: what's 'open cheque'? | 15:45 |
| yuriwho | I worry for the UK now | 15:45 |
| commandocrypto[m | <darsie "pigs?"> pic related | 15:45 |
| cews | 'whatever it costs' | 15:45 |
| JX7P | %cases Scotland | 15:46 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +86 cases (now 162917), +1 deaths (now 6074), +251 recoveries (now 76203) 🔶 Iran: +251 recoveries (now 4590) 🔸 Albania: +4 cases (now 42) 🔸 Algeria: +3 cases (now 48), +1 deaths (now 4) 🔸 Armenia: +3 cases (now 23) 🔸 Australia: +1 cases (now 300) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +4 cases (now 23) 🔸 Bahrain: +2 cases (now 214) 🔸 Brunei: +10 cases (now 50) 🔸 Colombia: +10 cases (now 34) 🔸 Croatia: +3 cases (now | 15:46 |
| IndoAnon | oh, 'open check' in en(us) | 15:46 |
| IndoAnon | 'blank cheque' | 15:46 |
| Brainstorm | JX7P: 3 lest ah googled (45 seconds ago) | 15:47 |
| mefistofeles | woot | 15:47 |
| cews | IndoAnon: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/open-cheque - yep | 15:47 |
| IndoAnon | wkwkwk | 15:47 |
| cews | > 11 new cases of Covid-19 have been confirmed in Northern Ireland, bringing the total number of known cases there to 45. | 15:48 |
| cews | > In Wales, 34 more people have tested positive for the coronavirus, taking the country’s number of confirmed cases to 94. | 15:49 |
| yuriwho | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammatory-drugs-may-aggravate-coronavirus-infection | 15:49 |
| commandocrypto[m | https://ddg.gg/?q=drone+attacks+on+pigfarms+china | 15:50 |
| cews | Factor in the 'trade war' | 15:50 |
| commandocrypto[m | any matrix nerds can opcode off the room always showing previews? it's a horrible default especially in a high volume chat | 15:51 |
| commandocrypto[m | we're trying to talk with the AI ehre and we're gonna need a bigger bot | 15:51 |
| c0d3glitch[m] | Reasoning behind UK's strategy on herd-immunity: https://youtu.be/cEn1PKyBUNc | 15:52 |
| mefistofeles | %title | 15:52 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From youtu.be: What is Herd Immunity? - YouTube | 15:52 |
| c0d3glitch[m] | Makes sense - especially considering 2nd or 3rd wave infectisons | 15:52 |
| python476 | so it's true UK is going herd imm / | 15:52 |
| python476 | ? | 15:52 |
| corecode | eventual | 15:53 |
| mefistofeles | c0d3glitch[m]: yes, bit controversial but it may work, who knows | 15:53 |
| c0d3glitch[m] | Yes | 15:53 |
| corecode | gradually putting out social distancing, i guess | 15:53 |
| c0d3glitch[m] | <mefistofeles "c0d3glitch: yes, bit controversi"> The scientists! | 15:53 |
| yuriwho | the second wave/herd immunity theory is complete speculation and a very bad basis for policy | 15:54 |
| yuriwho | IMO | 15:54 |
| IndoAnon | yeah | 15:54 |
| python476 | yuriwho: thank UK for making country wide studies for free | 15:54 |
| mefistofeles | c0d3glitch[m]: many scientists are behind that decision, also many others opposing... so, who knows | 15:54 |
| python476 | reality tv is going nobel | 15:54 |
| yuriwho | FYI I was born in Scotland and have many relatives in the UK | 15:55 |
| iz | we will find out if it makes sense or not in about 2 weeks :/ | 15:55 |
| corecode | in 2 months | 15:55 |
| RougeR | if the UK is going for herd immunity | 15:55 |
| RougeR | quickly | 15:55 |
| iz | well, it'll prob be clear if it's a good idea or not before that | 15:55 |
| RougeR | they need to release all modelling data | 15:55 |
| yuriwho | when hospitals overload death rates increase | 15:56 |
| iz | how many fatalities are acceptable? | 15:56 |
| corecode | compared to? | 15:56 |
| iz | yeah, exactly, that's why i was thinking 2 week | 15:56 |
| iz | compared to other countries using the more traditional approach of distancing | 15:56 |
| corecode | maybe going for lockdown might in the long run lead to more fatalities? | 15:56 |
| corecode | who knows | 15:56 |
| c0d3glitch[m] | The 2nd wave of Spanish Flu killed more people than the 1st. I think any attempt to stop future waves is vital | 15:57 |
| yuriwho | thats it, is stops you from buying time for clinical trials and drug production based on trials | 15:57 |
| mefistofeles | c0d3glitch[m]: this is not similar to that, fwiw | 15:57 |
| c0d3glitch[m] | <mefistofeles "c0d3glitch: this is not similar "> Do you mean COVID-19 is not similar to Flu? | 15:58 |
| mefistofeles | c0d3glitch[m]: yes | 15:59 |
| corecode | it's not similar to the flu, but maybe similar to the spanish flu? | 15:59 |
| corecode | i don't know | 15:59 |
| yuriwho | also there is no evidence for second waves with coronaviruses | 15:59 |
| RougeR | its not similar to either other than its a pandemic | 15:59 |
| corecode | wouldn't you expect a second wave if there is no herd immunity? | 15:59 |
| RougeR | and causes respitory issues | 15:59 |
| commandocrypto[m | > if the uk is gonna spray sars-ncoof20 on road checkpoints instead of bleach | 15:59 |
| commandocrypto[m | we are fucked. The weak man of europe | 15:59 |
| mefistofeles | corecode: spanish flu is influenza, and no, it doesn't look similar | 15:59 |
| c0d3glitch[m] | <yuriwho "also there is no evidence for se"> It's a virus much like other viruses - it will be seasonal | 16:00 |
| RougeR | the thing is | 16:00 |
| corecode | mefistofeles: also not in the epidemic spread? | 16:00 |
| RougeR | if we hold off and try to stop this in its tracks | 16:00 |
| iz | no one even knows if immunity after infection is a thing or not yet | 16:00 |
| RougeR | with draconian measure | 16:00 |
| RougeR | then we buy time for theraputics | 16:00 |
| iz | let alone herd immunity | 16:00 |
| IndoAnon | c0d3glitch[m]: symptom is similar... different evolution path, aftermaths | 16:00 |
| RougeR | ^ | 16:00 |
| mefistofeles | corecode: influenza is more contagiuous, fwiw | 16:00 |
| fujisan | it's the worst pandemic of the 21st century | 16:00 |
| corecode | mefistofeles: ah, thanks | 16:00 |
| corecode | fujisan: the century is young | 16:01 |
| corecode | wait until the end | 16:01 |
| commandocrypto[m | Covid19 is nothing like the flu depending on what strain u mean. Covid 20 has more "uncanny similarities" than its predecessor | 16:01 |
| IndoAnon | fujisan: are you from jp? | 16:01 |
| fujisan | Netherlands | 16:01 |
| IndoAnon | lol | 16:01 |
| iz | https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/02/28/national/coronavirus-reinfection/ | 16:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 14:55 UTC: CoronavirusGLOBAL: [Twitter] @farnazfassihi "Iran setting up beds in the parking lot of a hospital to treat overflow of patients " → https://is.gd/EJnt2C | 16:01 |
| python476 | and I'm a dog | 16:01 |
| fujisan | IndoAnon: why is that funny? | 16:01 |
| python476 | your nick | 16:01 |
| python476 | totally fooled us thinking you were in tokyo | 16:02 |
| fujisan | im multiracial | 16:02 |
| IndoAnon | dutch's mountain is way less high | 16:02 |
| iz | are you half mountain? :b | 16:02 |
| IndoAnon | indo? | 16:02 |
| fujisan | im the goat | 16:02 |
| python476 | half dutch half japanese then ? | 16:02 |
| yuriwho | this is all about buying time for medical science to discover knowledge about the virus, and development of treatments | 16:02 |
| commandocrypto[m | https://archive.is/X9Nvs | 16:02 |
| commandocrypto[m | > Pig farms in China are fighting a high-tech war with gangsters reportedly plotting to profit off a national pork crisis. A pig farm in northeastern China deployed anti-drone equipment following rumors that gangs were trying to spread African swine fever by airdropping the virus into farms. | 16:02 |
| fujisan | yeah | 16:02 |
| corecode | they should import pigs from the US | 16:03 |
| IndoAnon | ayy... you must like kecap | 16:03 |
| fujisan | yuriwho: to slow down the spread so medical capacity isnt overwhelmed as well | 16:03 |
| IndoAnon | *ketjap | 16:03 |
| python476 | so apparently people do think China has flattened totally | 16:03 |
| yuriwho | fujisan: yes, absolutely | 16:03 |
| corecode | it seems china has contained | 16:03 |
| corecode | not flattened | 16:03 |
| fujisan | this will stay the new normal | 16:04 |
| corecode | but that won't be easy to keep given that the rest of the world is not going for containment | 16:04 |
| yuriwho | I was referring to the second wave/herd immunity BS | 16:04 |
| IndoAnon | yeah | 16:04 |
| IndoAnon | probably for the rest of decade | 16:04 |
| fujisan | 2nd wave isnt BS it's a theory derived from the Spanish flu | 16:04 |
| fujisan | it's a possibility | 16:04 |
| cews | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51895873 <- Matt Hancock latest interview.. | 16:04 |
| fujisan | since it will be seasonal | 16:04 |
| fujisan | and can mutate | 16:04 |
| corecode | we also can find a vaccine | 16:05 |
| aradesh | is the offloop corona statistics site down? | 16:05 |
| RougeR | fujisan, | 16:05 |
| fujisan | that will take at least 2 years corecode | 16:05 |
| commandocrypto[m | > XAG, a Guangzhou-based drone maker, teamed up with Germany’s Bayer Crop Science in a drone swarm operation to kill the fall armyworm in China’s Guangxi region. The autonomous devices, loaded with low-toxicity insecticide, have also successfully managed the pests in a government-led operation in the southwest province of Yunnan, XAG said. | 16:05 |
| corecode | says you | 16:05 |
| RougeR | we should be stopping this by all means possible | 16:05 |
| RougeR | and manufacturing ventilators is my view | 16:05 |
| fujisan | im not saying anything | 16:05 |
| fujisan | that's what i read | 16:05 |
| corecode | ok | 16:05 |
| RougeR | https://hackaday.com/2020/03/12/ultimate-medical-hackathon-how-fast-can-we-design-and-deploy-an-open-source-ventilator/ | 16:05 |
| fujisan | hope for the best prepare for the worst | 16:06 |
| fujisan | that's what we are doing now | 16:06 |
| commandocrypto[m | at some point someone will fuck up the captcha driven news cycle and the AI will accidentally get rid of all the pigs in china and the workers in the factories and then we'll have a hard reset | 16:06 |
| fujisan | manufacturing back in our own countries | 16:06 |
| fujisan | no more outsourcing | 16:06 |
| fujisan | we need to rethink our way of life | 16:07 |
| fujisan | it's too global | 16:07 |
| fujisan | this is a wakeup call | 16:07 |
| mefistofeles | stop the drama, please | 16:08 |
| IndoAnon | ? | 16:08 |
| IndoAnon | i think being self sufficient is one of core value to uphold, especially now | 16:09 |
| fujisan | mefistofeles: which drama? | 16:09 |
| LjL | commandocrypto[m, really, don't do that | 16:09 |
| commandocrypto[m | RougeR: could we subsitute arduino for the brains? | 16:10 |
| python476 | fujisan: irony would be that after covid people will go twice harder on trips and amazon-china-plastic | 16:10 |
| fujisan | some sure but lots not | 16:10 |
| fujisan | see the thing we are only at the beginning of this | 16:11 |
| IndoAnon | wkwkwk | 16:11 |
| LjL | one thing that i don't want this channel to be is a meme channel | 16:11 |
| LjL | you do that, and i see someone leave. not the first time. | 16:11 |
| commandocrypto[m | LjL: don't do what | 16:12 |
| RougeR | commandocrypto[m, ofc | 16:12 |
| commandocrypto[m | unironically then - which one is the meme | 16:12 |
| LjL | well if you can't see that i think we do have a problem | 16:12 |
| commandocrypto[m | i uploaded 3 photographs and shared 3 urls - it's not tough question | 16:12 |
| LjL | that Trump thing is the first i clicked on | 16:13 |
| LjL | i didn't need to click on a second | 16:13 |
| IndoAnon | LjL: people hardly aware of this a month ago | 16:13 |
| RougeR | huh | 16:13 |
| LjL | IndoAnon, ? | 16:13 |
| commandocrypto[m | you cant | 16:13 |
| RougeR | the trump is the only "meme" | 16:13 |
| commandocrypto[m | that is the problem | 16:13 |
| commandocrypto[m | answer my very simple question | 16:13 |
| commandocrypto[m | which one(s) were memes | 16:13 |
| mefistofeles | others are useless images without sources and ways to verify, I'd avoid that as well | 16:13 |
| commandocrypto[m | ok i'll delete that. sorry for the smiles | 16:13 |
| IndoAnon | they would just say, it's 4chon mem right? | 16:13 |
| commandocrypto[m | mefistofeles: name one | 16:15 |
| commandocrypto[m | mefistofeles: you saying i'm sharing shit for which i do not have citations??? | 16:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:10 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Cuomo calls on Trump to mobilize military, de Blasio says 'equivalent of war' → https://is.gd/Ro001B | 16:15 |
| LjL-Matrix | R3DP1LL: same goes for you | 16:15 |
| mefistofeles | commandocrypto[m: mind the language | 16:15 |
| IndoAnon | they feel the heat when it's geographically significant to their place | 16:15 |
| commandocrypto[m | LjL: did you censor that image??? | 16:15 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | yes he did | 16:15 |
| commandocrypto[m | that wasn't anything to do with me... at least give us time to safe a thumbnail | 16:16 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | looks like he's trying to censor what he does not like | 16:16 |
| commandocrypto[m | whoever shared taht, please dm me | 16:16 |
| mefistofeles | R3DP1LL[m]: not true | 16:16 |
| commandocrypto[m | lol LjL != gods | 16:16 |
| iz | lol matrix ppl | 16:16 |
| iz | how does irc work?!?! | 16:17 |
| mefistofeles | iz: hah, rght? | 16:17 |
| mefistofeles | *right | 16:17 |
| commandocrypto[m | mods = gods | 16:17 |
| commandocrypto[m | > mods = gods | 16:17 |
| commandocrypto[m | mods = gods | 16:17 |
| commandocrypto[m | so impolite | 16:17 |
| LjL-Matrix | commandocrypto: from IRC I don't even *see* the link content before i click on it. I clicked on the Trump one. That shouldn't have been there. If that's not a "meme", call it by some other name, but I still didn't want it. The other two, we can reason about sources or lack thereof. But I come here and first thing I see is a serial post of three pics in a row... It is unhelpful. | 16:17 |
| R3DP1LL[m] | <Brainstorm "New from CNBC Health at 15:10 UT"> Why sharing CNBC Fake News? | 16:18 |
| LjL-Matrix | commandocrypto: what, should I "give you time" to take a thumbnail of something that shouldn't even be posted? | 16:18 |
| LjL-Matrix | I don't know Matrix culture much maybe | 16:18 |
| LjL-Matrix | but if that is what it is, I don't want to learn about it either | 16:18 |
| LjL-Matrix | Keep this place usable for both Matrix and IRC users, and yes, I will delete posts that are just silly stuff | 16:18 |
| commandocrypto[m | > lol but he shared one chuckle meme in a stash of data... orangemanbad.jpg | 16:18 |
| LjL-Matrix | You don't like that, don't be here | 16:18 |
| LjL-Matrix | You want to rant about mods acting like gods etc, you don't do that either | 16:18 |
| LjL-Matrix | I am in Milan and I am tense and stressed enough without people making being here and sorting through things much harder | 16:19 |
| LjL | R3DP1LL[m], yes, okay, i will "censor what I do now like". if what you don't like is me doing that, leave. | 16:20 |
| LjL | R3DP1LL[m], you joined this channel after joining #alerts and posting a silly image there immediately. then when you saw from the bot that there was this channel, you joined here, and did the same. i saw it and said nothing. now i'm saying something: we didn't need to so that | 16:20 |
| LjL | you haven't contributed anything useful so far except that, and complaining about me complaining about that | 16:20 |
| LjL | so there is that | 16:20 |
| mefistofeles | I think it's pretty clear right now | 16:21 |
| LjL | good then i'll treat it as well clarified | 16:21 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: so, I ask again, how are thing going over there? | 16:22 |
| dividediff[m] | Things are picking up in Switzerland | 16:22 |
| LjL | wonderful. our regions are trying to fight over who gets ventilators | 16:22 |
| commandocrypto[m | LjL: tell me in proper grammar why | 16:22 |
| commandocrypto[m | > that shouldn't even be posted | 16:22 |
| commandocrypto[m | you, cretin, are worse than Kim Jon Il, Winnie the Poo, Stalin and all the rest. S for Save Your Soul | 16:22 |
| commandocrypto[m | i'll wait | 16:22 |
| mefistofeles | :/ | 16:22 |
| commandocrypto[m | keep sliding shill | 16:23 |
| commandocrypto[m | LjL: keep sliding. i'll wait | 16:23 |
| dividediff[m] | https://www.change.org/p/close-all-schools-in-canada-immediately-to-stop-covid-19 petition to close schools in Canada, think it’s legit? | 16:23 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: what do you mean by legit? | 16:23 |
| commandocrypto[m | dude i'll do this until you or one of your cronies has to ban me | 16:23 |
| commandocrypto[m | why shouldn't these things be shared here? | 16:24 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: is change .org Actually doing a petition or is it just harvesting emails? | 16:24 |
| commandocrypto[m | S | 16:24 |
| RougeR | From Monday, Germany will close its land borders with Austria, France and Switzerland to curb the spread of coronavirus, local media report. | 16:24 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: I mean, it's "just" another petition in change.org, as far as I can see | 16:25 |
| dividediff[m] | Here in Canada if you walk around basically nothing has changed in response to coronavirus in terms of government | 16:25 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: does change org Ever accomplish anything do you think? | 16:25 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: I can see him coming back and trying to make things worse, fwiw :/ | 16:25 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: not in my experience, tbh | 16:26 |
| bigfluff | %stats oregon | 16:26 |
| Brainstorm | Most used commands: watch_for_privmsg (1067), watch_for_messages (1067), watch_for_backlog (1067), science (1067), responds (1067), quup (1067), police (1067), mc44 (1067), collectlines (1067), check (1067) | 16:26 |
| dividediff[m] | Darn | 16:26 |
| mefistofeles | well, actually, depends | 16:26 |
| mefistofeles | the issues do gain some visibility, for sure | 16:26 |
| contingo | %cases uk | 16:26 |
| Brainstorm | contingo: In all areas, United Kingdom, there are 1140 cases, 21 deaths (1.8% of cases), 18 recoveries as of March 15, 15:15Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 16:26 |
| mefistofeles | but probably not enough to make the actual difference in terms of the petition terms | 16:27 |
| dividediff[m] | Hmm  | 16:27 |
| HeXiLeD | what bot is Brainstorm? | 16:27 |
| LjL | <mefistofeles> LjL: I can see him coming back and trying to make things worse, fwiw :/ ← sure, i already don't know how he came back in the first place since it WAS a ban on Matrix, not just a kick. but i really am not going to NOT ban people just because they're bullying me with the ability to come back | 16:28 |
| LjL | never did that, never going to start | 16:28 |
| HeXiLeD | %data france | 16:28 |
| Brainstorm | HeXiLeD: In all areas, France, there are 4499 cases, 91 deaths (2.0% of cases), 12 recoveries as of March 15, 15:15Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France for time series data. | 16:28 |
| LjL | mine | 16:28 |
| HeXiLeD | %data canada | 16:28 |
| Brainstorm | HeXiLeD: In all areas, Canada, there are 252 cases, 1 deaths (0.4% of cases), 11 recoveries as of March 15, 15:15Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. | 16:28 |
| Brainstorm | HeXiLeD: Mortality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 7.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 16:28 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: sure, just saying to expect more of that | 16:28 |
| dividediff[m] | %data Canada | 16:29 |
| Brainstorm | dividediff[m]: In all areas, Canada, there are 252 cases, 1 deaths (0.4% of cases), 11 recoveries as of March 15, 15:15Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. | 16:29 |
| Brainstorm | dividediff[m]: Mortality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 7.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 16:29 |
| LjL | probably don't expect two different results from the same command... | 16:29 |
| dividediff[m] | %data canada | 16:29 |
| Brainstorm | dividediff[m]: In all areas, Canada, there are 252 cases, 1 deaths (0.4% of cases), 11 recoveries as of March 15, 15:15Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. | 16:29 |
| Brainstorm | dividediff[m]: Mortality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 7.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 16:29 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], enough please | 16:29 |
| dividediff[m] | I don’t see anything from percentage data | 16:30 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: what do you mean? | 16:30 |
| dividediff[m] | When I put in percentage data Canada, nothing happened. I’m not sure what supposed to happen | 16:30 |
| dividediff[m] | But A few other people put in a similar term so I figure something must happen | 16:31 |
| mefistofeles | oh, you are not getting the response from the bot? | 16:31 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: how does the bot works for matrix users? Is it the same? | 16:32 |
| dividediff[m] | Yea , Which bot responds? | 16:32 |
| oldguy | dividediff[m]: the bot answered both times | 16:32 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, i see the bot responding on Matrix | 16:32 |
| mefistofeles | ok | 16:32 |
| dividediff[m] | what’s the name of the bot that responds? The username | 16:33 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: Brainstorm | 16:33 |
| dividediff[m] | OK I’ll check my settings and see if I blocked it. Ty | 16:34 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], are you connecting to matrix.org as your home server? i'm getting the feeling this room doesn't look the same on all servers | 16:34 |
| LjL | (partly based on the fact i banned someone from matrix.org a moment ago yet they could be immediately back according to the IRC bridge) | 16:34 |
| yuriwho | https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/15/politics/anthony-fauci-national-lockdown-bars-restaurants-cnntv/index.html | 16:37 |
| LjL | %title | 16:38 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.cnn.com: Anthony Fauci doesn't rule out supporting temporary national lockdown to combat coronavirus - CNNPolitics | 16:38 |
| yuriwho | at least he's not being muzzled by Trump | 16:39 |
| LeoBodnar | it's just his opnion for now | 16:40 |
| LeoBodnar | not sure if it's worth anything by the time it gets onto Trump's desk | 16:40 |
| cews | > As of 9am on 15 March, a total of 40,279 have been tested: 38,907 negative 1,372 positive. Across the UK, 35 patients who tested positive for coronavirus (COVID-19) have sadly died. | 16:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:40 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York governor wants Trump to mobilize army, NYC mayor calls outbreak 'war' → https://is.gd/Ro001B | 16:43 |
| mirsal | https://www.arcgis.com/home/webmap/viewer.html?webmap=fa2668225f6c46408ec4016fd6cd5b09&extent=-136.6103,8.3024,35.6553,66.7501 | 16:43 |
| LeoBodnar | very interesting - UK figures | 16:43 |
| LeoBodnar | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/DmfD31pc/UK-testing.png | 16:43 |
| LeoBodnar | you'd think that number of new cases did not increase that much but... | 16:43 |
| LeoBodnar | they have tested only 50% of people they have tested yesterday | 16:44 |
| LeoBodnar | and % of positives increased from 7% to 9% | 16:44 |
| LeoBodnar | this is not good | 16:44 |
| LeoBodnar | I assume the new testing regime kicked in? | 16:44 |
| IndoAnon | yeah | 16:45 |
| IndoAnon | no more false negatives,.i guess | 16:45 |
| LjL | mirsal, i'm looking at that, i understand it tells you where people who are more vulnerable can get help, but from the map i cannot see the exact addresses or a phone number or email... how does it work? | 16:45 |
| IndoAnon | s/no more/ significantly reduced rate of | 16:46 |
| Brainstorm | IndoAnon meant to say: significantly reduced rate of false negatives,.i guess | 16:46 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews at 14:10 UTC: worldnews: Coronavirus: Austria bans all gatherings of more than five people → https://is.gd/A7JVig | 16:46 |
| IndoAnon | lol | 16:46 |
| mirsal | <LjL "mirsal ✨, i'm looking at that, i"> there should be links to forms or contact info for most of them | 16:48 |
| LjL | mirsal, hm i see some broken image icons when i click on them, maybe that's where i should be seeing contact data | 16:50 |
| mirsal | yes | 16:51 |
| LjL | mirsal, oh well if i click on them i do get to whatever URL is relevant, even though the imagine is broken, okay | 16:51 |
| LjL | mirsal, i assume you won't mind me posting that map as part of the URL list we have in the topic | 16:51 |
| mirsal | <LjL "mirsal ✨, i assume you won't min"> of course I don't! | 16:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 15:55 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The majority counsel who led the impeachment inquiry, and who 4 days ago was reporting symptoms of Coronavirus and warning of the difficulty he was having being approved for testing, has just tested positive. → https://is.gd/5OqHzo | 16:57 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: you know, I just realized it would be nice to have a diff of the rosources pastebin when it changes... | 16:58 |
| mefistofeles | resources* | 16:58 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, if i "edit" the post on dpaste instead of creating a new one, then it shows a diff at the top... but then it *always* shows that diff at the top, and it's pretty giant, so i kind of thought it would make things more confusing for most people. it would be nice if you could click on a button to get the diff... i'll look into it some more. there's also the fact that pastebin has a 7 day maximum expiry time, so i can't even show you older pastes | 17:04 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, like this, just typed random stuff now https://dpaste.org/gONO | 17:04 |
| Guest23720 | when is this shit gonna end | 17:05 |
| HeXiLeD | https://nltimes.nl/2020/03/14/dutch-researchers-first-find-covid-19-antibodies-report | 17:05 |
| IndoAnon | wew | 17:07 |
| IndoAnon | good news, eh? | 17:07 |
| sneep | %cases china | 17:08 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +370 cases (now 163287), +16 deaths (now 6090) 🔶 United Kingdom: +232 cases (now 1372), +14 deaths (now 35) 🔸 Albania: +4 cases (now 42) 🔸 Algeria: +3 cases (now 48), +1 deaths (now 4) 🔸 Armenia: +3 cases (now 23) 🔸 Australia: +1 cases (now 300) 🔸 Austria: +60 cases (now 860) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +4 cases (now 23) 🔸 Bahrain: +2 cases (now 214) 🔸 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +3 cases (now 24) 🔸 Brunei: | 17:08 |
| LjL | guethat's the million dollar question | 17:08 |
| sneep | More cases outside of China than inside China now | 17:08 |
| Brainstorm | sneep: In all areas, China, there are 80995 cases, 3203 deaths (4.0% of cases), 67004 recoveries as of March 11, 02:18Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=China for time series data. | 17:09 |
| Brainstorm | sneep: Mortality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.3% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 4.6% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 17:09 |
| LjL | Spec, https://np.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/fipavk/more_than_half_of_icu_patients_are_below_50yrs_of/ | 17:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:04 UTC: (news): These retailers are closing stores to slow coronavirus outbreak → https://is.gd/5KqS67 | 17:10 |
| sneep | Dutch is hard to read | 17:11 |
| sneep | Meer dan de helft is onder de vijftig --> It's somewhat readable though, More than (the) half is under (the) fifty | 17:12 |
| LjL | sneep, the page didn't play nice with google translate for me, but there is a comment in the thread where the entire thing is translated | 17:14 |
| LjL | sneep, i think there was some kind of experiment once where they made fishermen from some Dutch village that spoke a weird dialect try to talk to fishermen from some English village that spoke a weird dialect... and voila they were mutually intelligible | 17:15 |
| LjL | [citation needed] | 17:15 |
| IndoAnon | LjL: lol... | 17:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:12 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York governor wants Trump to mobilize army, NYC mayor calls outbreak 'war' → https://is.gd/Ro001B | 17:24 |
| LjL | Spec, when someone calls it "war" you know it's about a week before people who are like "oh come on, war? that's ridiculous" realize it's not such a stretch | 17:25 |
| sneep | What happened to the guardian links BTW? | 17:25 |
| LjL | sneep, i killed them. more and more of them were getting posted at a time, and i felt the majority were about the economy... more than one person complained about them. i could have them in Brainstorm instead of the Matrix RSS bot, that way it would not post more than one every n minutes, but then it would likely swamp all the other links (i.e. not allow them to be posted, since the bot just checks every n minutes and if there's more than one thing, it | 17:26 |
| LjL | discards) | 17:26 |
| sneep | aw. i liked them ;) | 17:27 |
| mefistofeles | lol, really? | 17:27 |
| LeoBodnar | LjL: is lockdown working (in simple terms) Y/N? | 17:27 |
| mefistofeles | to sneep | 17:27 |
| LjL | sneep, i made a ##covid-ticker channel with the full (non-cutoff) case updates from Brainstorm... i guess i could make the RSS bot also dump all the Guardian stuff in there if you want to have it | 17:27 |
| LjL | LeoBodnar, i don't have a complete picture, but in my opinion no. too many people ignoring it. but we're going to see from the data soon... | 17:28 |
| sneep | it's helpful to have some kind of news input to fuel discussions | 17:28 |
| LeoBodnar | LjL: thank you | 17:28 |
| LjL | although the data may show an improvement of the situation in Lombardy (hopefully), but at the same time, a drastic worsening of it in the south, if it's true many people fled from Lombardy when the initial Lombardy-specific lockdown started | 17:28 |
| mefistofeles | sneep: oh sure, we are still getting some news feed, afaik | 17:28 |
| LjL | sneep, mefistofeles: i am not completely happy with what Brainstorm posts (or doesn't), i end up pasting r/worldnews links like i did earlier manually, because Brainstorm gives them to me as part of my own "top" feeds, but somehow it doesn't find them important enough to post them. i'm blaming Brainstorm now but in reality it's all about exactly what Reddit RSS URL i use, since you can play with parameters a lot on Reddit and get what you need, but it's | 17:30 |
| LjL | not very clearly documented | 17:30 |
| aradesh | UK corona deaths up to 35. it was reported as 8 on friday | 17:31 |
| notkoos | https://grapevine.is/news/2020/03/15/first-results-of-general-population-screening-about-1-of-icelanders-with-coronavirus/ | 17:34 |
| IndoAnon | >Support The Reykjavík Grapevine! Book your day tours in Iceland right here! < not the best advice | 17:35 |
| sneep | notkoos: nice link | 17:35 |
| sneep | i guess there aren't a lot of countries right now that can afford to do random testing | 17:36 |
| LjL | notkoos, is it really good news though? the hope people kept having (although i haven't shared that belief for some time now) was that there were soooo many nearly asymptomatic positives | 17:36 |
| LjL | but instead, if the positives we're seeing are mostly symptomatic, many needing hospitalization, it means when we inevitably reach a majority of the population having it... ugh | 17:37 |
| LjL | you can "make the curve flatter" but at some point you can't make quarantines last for ten years | 17:37 |
| LjL | sneep, i've put Guardian back into Brainstorm (not the RSS bot), tenatively, we'll see how that goes | 17:40 |
| LjL | it will only post things that match a number of keywords so if something's headline is *all* about the economy it won't even post it. but, i do have a lot of keywords. | 17:40 |
| spybert | regarding the percentage of asymptomatic infected, is there any data from south korea where they have efficient testing | 17:41 |
| sneep | LjL: Cool. Let's hope I'm not the only one who likes them :p | 17:41 |
| LjL | spybert, i have no data about how many there are actually asymptomatic, but i saw a graph (unsourced) indicating there's a much larger amount of positives who are young than in italy. presumably, many of those young ones are at least nearly asymptomatic. but also it's been pointed out it all started from that church thing in Korea, and that has mostly younger adepts | 17:42 |
| LjL | spybert, https://twitter.com/markwby/status/1238867143363567616 (free infected cookies if anyone can source it) | 17:43 |
| spybert | LjL: That would support the hypothesis that the final death toll will be lower | 17:52 |
| mefistofeles | spybert: there's a github repository with data from Korea, fwiw, https://github.com/jihoo-kim/Coronavirus-Dataset/ | 17:54 |
| mefistofeles | updated 3 days ago, fwiw | 17:54 |
| LjL | spybert, maybe... but then other data (like the above about iceland) suggesting that it's not full of asymptomatic carriers everywhere would make me think if eventually this virus reaches almost everyone, well, the death toll won't be so good. also, in the netherlands, more than half of the ICU patients are under 50. that's a somewhat unexpected data point... | 17:54 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: not that unexpected if you consider the indicidence by age | 17:54 |
| mefistofeles | the incidence is much higher in the under 50 age group | 17:55 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, is that also true of other countries (apart from Korea, which may be due to specific reasons)? | 17:55 |
| mefistofeles | I've seen similar numbers for China and others, but cannot remember exactly now | 17:56 |
| LjL | then maybe there should be more awareness that younger people are as likely (or more) to end up in a rather unpleasant ICU bed situation | 17:58 |
| LjL | since a few of them are still not giving a crap about lockdowns because "they won't be killed by it anyway" | 17:58 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: I keep hearing that, but where's that coming from? | 17:59 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, in general there's more younger (under 50) population so of course you will hear more people under 50 saying that, but that doesn't mean it's the general rule or something like that | 18:00 |
| mefistofeles | fwiw, I keep more of them panicking about all of this | 18:00 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, personally, from seeing people in parks and in front of the station here, playing ball and stuff. very anecdotal, but then when the same anecdote comes from other people from other parts of milan/italy, maybe it's kind of really happening | 18:00 |
| mefistofeles | *I keep hearing | 18:00 |
| LjL | i guess they are no longer in parks at least in milan now since the mayor closed the parks | 18:01 |
| mefistofeles | sure, I mean, just say there's a X percentage of people doing that | 18:01 |
| mefistofeles | of course most people would be under 50, since the distribution is not uniform by age | 18:01 |
| mefistofeles | and, from what heard from friends is that actually their parents don't giving a fuck, but they freaking out about this | 18:02 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, i think "a few of them" and "a X percentage" aren't exactly incompatible. the other point being, older people didn't seem to be around much, so it's not a similar X percentage when you go to older age groups. | 18:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 16:59 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Ben Siegel su Twitter: "BERLIN (Reuters) - Berlin is trying to stop Washington from persuading a German company seeking a coronavirus vaccine to move its research to the United States, prompting German politicians to insist no country should have a monopoly on any future vaccine." → https://is.gd/bynmSQ | 18:02 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, i can't speak for your friends, and i wouldn't say this about mine either, but we tend to choose our friends | 18:02 |
| mefistofeles | exactly, that's why the incidence is larger in the "younger" groups, not necessarily because people don't care, just becase there are just more people in that group | 18:03 |
| sneep | https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/nation-world/over-half-of-frances-300-coronavirus-icu-patients-under-age-60/277-9c26ad1f-f633-4409-aba4-1fe054733fba | 18:03 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, I'm not saying you are wrong, I just don't think it's just because people don't care, tbh | 18:03 |
| mefistofeles | and what plays the bigger role in that case? Not so sure | 18:04 |
| mefistofeles | https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/15/business/economy/coronavirus-worker-risk.html pretty neat visualization | 18:06 |
| mefistofeles | %title | 18:06 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From www.nytimes.com: The Workers Who Face the Greatest Coronavirus Risk - The New York Times | 18:06 |
| eviscerate | went to the grocerry this morning | 18:06 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, i can't bring up actual data with "how many young people are still in the streets compared to older people in italy" because if police knew, they'd also fine them... but i can only eyeball the fact that when i went out to the pharmacy and then just a brief tour of the neighborhood to see how things looked, there were still too many people, and almost all of them young. in Milan you usually see plenty of older people (since that's basically | 18:06 |
| LjL | touted as the reason Italy is faring so badly with mortality) | 18:06 |
| eviscerate | empty shelves everywhere | 18:06 |
| LjL | damn it's past 18 again | 18:07 |
| LjL | i need to set up an alarm | 18:07 |
| LjL | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLCGBBx6HMU&feature=youtu.be | 18:08 |
| LjL | ... 1672 are in ICU | 18:08 |
| LjL | the percentage is still 10% for ICU patients | 18:08 |
| LjL | unfortunately today we registered 368 deaths | 18:08 |
| LjL | about the "Cross" activity (exchange of patients between regions), today 6 more people have been transfered, for a total of 40 patients moved from Lombardy to other regions | 18:09 |
| mefistofeles | woah, 368!! | 18:09 |
| LjL | today we have 3385 volunteers who go to add to the police forces etc | 18:09 |
| LjL | the pre-triage tends are increased by 7, for a total of 548 | 18:09 |
| LjL | we also have 19 more pre-triage tents in prisons | 18:09 |
| LjL | we have distributed more than 10 million PPEs | 18:10 |
| LjL | we also planned distributing between 1.5 and 2m surgical masks tomorrow, and 300k FPP2 | 18:10 |
| LjL | i'd like to finish with a reminder for respecting the rules, only going out for work, medical issues, groceries | 18:10 |
| LjL | limit travel and leaving your homes | 18:10 |
| LjL | i thank prof. Silvio Brusafe(..?) who will talk now | 18:11 |
| LjL | as always, tonight we have put the infographic on our site synthesizing the epidemiological analysis of the data | 18:11 |
| LjL | it can be downloaded as a PDF from the ISS website | 18:11 |
| LjL | they are delayed compared to the civil protection data | 18:11 |
| LjL | our data are delayed due to coming from the regions and having more specific information about cases | 18:12 |
| LjL | this is all for the time being | 18:12 |
| LjL | question: today we had the most new cases in a day, if i'm not mistaken. do you think we are reaching the peak? | 18:12 |
| LjL | second, what is the average age of ICU patients, and the percentage? | 18:12 |
| LjL | answer: concerning the curves, we will not make statements about the state, we are measuring it and we are seeing growths that are different by regions. it's clear that on a national basis, today the number is higher. | 18:13 |
| LjL | we are monitoring it and in our weekly bulletin (tuesday is next) we will have some more data, by region | 18:13 |
| LjL | in the same bulletin we'll have up to date data for ICU by age | 18:13 |
| LjL | right now we have age group data for the deaths | 18:13 |
| LjL | those still reflect the percentages we have seen in the past | 18:13 |
| LjL | we are systematically getting these data from the regions, to represent the situation as best as possible, and interpret trends | 18:14 |
| LjL | on a national level but first and foremost on a regional level, because we have realities where the virus circulation is very different | 18:14 |
| LjL | again, on tuesdays and fridays we'll have a report on deaths, which is made up by a description of the situation and then a number of maps | 18:15 |
| LjL | precisely because of our curves, other european countries are adopting the same measures as we have, which we now know are effective, and if other european countries adopt them, they can work in synergy | 18:15 |
| LjL | question: for the first time, there are victims in Sardegna and Calabria. this reinforces the idea that contagion is at a national level now, not just northern regions...? | 18:16 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +266 cases (now 163914), +1 deaths (now 6092) 🔸 Andorra: +4 cases (now 5) 🔸 Canada: +47 cases (now 302) 🔸 Estonia: +36 cases (now 171) 🔸 India: +3 cases (now 111) 🔸 Japan: +25 cases (now 839) 🔸 Norway: +2 cases (now 1214) 🔸 Qatar: +64 cases (now 401) 🔸 Spain: +45 cases (now 7798), +1 deaths (now 292) 🔸 UAE: +12 cases (now 98) 🔸 US: +28 cases (now 3143) | 18:16 |
| LjL | answer: yes, we said this many time, it's a problem that's being faced by some areas of the countries, in a way i'd like to call heroic, but no part of the country can feel exempt and uninvolved | 18:16 |
| mefistofeles | these questions xD | 18:17 |
| LjL | i reiterate the request to adopt all the recommended measures, for everyone, even where in our maps it appears cases are limited | 18:17 |
| LjL | if we don't, we won't be able to change the curve's shape, and we'll have many critical situations | 18:17 |
| mefistofeles | though, I guess if the intention was to emphasize what was said in the answer, then nice | 18:17 |
| LjL | i also want to remind how all of the national territory, but in particular the places with much circulation, many hospitalized, many positives, these people are receiving help thanks to the extraordinary heroic efforts of all the professionals, doctors and volunteers that work to provide the best possible assistance, sometimes costing them their life | 18:18 |
| LjL | like a colleague who i am tied to by a collaboration and friendship relationship, who has spent part of his life training others: Roberto Stella. and likewise a 118 operator who worked in a part of the country where the situation was particularly dire. it's thanks to professionals like them that our country is able to react even in areas where things are most critical. | 18:19 |
| LjL | we must be aware that our behaviors can change the ways in which the curve happens | 18:19 |
| LjL | question: the president of Veneto, Zaia, said he wants to blanket test the whole population. but this goes against your recommendations, what of it? also, Lombardy governor Fontana has kept asking for creating a hospital in the world fair area. you have said that can't be done due to lack of equipment. how is that evolving? | 18:20 |
| LjL | about tests, we are in an international context, we have continuing cooperation with interantional organizations, and as i said at the beginning, the fact other countries are replicating our behavior gives an idea of how important it is to act in coordination. i believe that today i can express on behalf of the scientific committee is what we have already expressed internationally. | 18:21 |
| LjL | about the Milan world fair hospital, i want to repeat that the difficulties are known: equipment, and personnel. we are trying to solve both issues, as you know there will be a Council of Ministers tonight, which will pass a law enhancing healthcare resources available | 18:22 |
| eviscerate | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7QRsx9lbBU | 18:22 |
| mefistofeles | %title | 18:22 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From www.youtube.com: The Stand (opening scene) - YouTube | 18:22 |
| LjL | we are working to provide equipment, in particular ventilators for ICU, to Lombardy and other regions | 18:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:20 UTC: (news): Americans returning from abroad face hours-long lines at US airports for coronavirus screening → https://is.gd/xtXkp4 | 18:22 |
| LjL | question: still about the hospital, Bertolaso was appointed (as a commissioner?) - how do you feel about it? | 18:22 |
| LjL | answer: I'm very happy Bertolaso can help Lombardy and i'm happy he's on the team. i won't hide the fact i was trained by Bertolaso, and i think i've learned from him. we have a great relationship and i'll be happy to work with him. | 18:23 |
| eviscerate | are bidets forbidden in ##politics? | 18:24 |
| LjL | question: can you clarify, to avoid panic, the issue of how the virus remains on surfaces? there are fake news circulating. about masks, i've noticed a lot of people running and even driving with masks and gloves. can you specify the correct use of those things? | 18:24 |
| LjL | [where the hell are they getting masks?] | 18:24 |
| LjL | answer: this has been with us since the epidemic started. we have experimental data on coronaviruses showing they can survive for a few hours, up to a few days, on different surfaces, if those surfaces aren't cleaned or sanitized | 18:24 |
| LjL | or they simply aren't exposed to the elements such as rain and sun | 18:25 |
| LjL | there was something circualting today about the virus's survival on street surfaces | 18:25 |
| LjL | we must be aware this virus can stay around for hours to day | 18:25 |
| X-Scale | > BREAKING: Italy reports 3,590 new cases and 368 new deaths, raising total to 24,747 cases and 1,809 dead | 18:25 |
| LjL | but we also know the virus is very vulnerable to disinfectants | 18:25 |
| LjL | the virus is transmitted partly via droplets, and partly via hand contact, so we always said we should frequently and correctly wash our hands. that's the best prevention wrt surface transmission | 18:26 |
| sandro_ | %data germany | 18:26 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +3706 cases (now 167620), +368 deaths (now 6460), +369 recoveries (now 76572) 🔶 US: +137 cases (now 3252) 🔶 Veneto, Italy: +235 cases (now 2172), +8 deaths (now 63), +13 recoveries (now 120) 🔶 Toscana, Italy: +151 cases (now 781), +2 deaths (now 8) 🔶 Piemonte, Italy: +238 cases (now 1111), +22 deaths (now 81) 🔶 P.A. Trento, Italy: +172 cases (now 378), +4 deaths (now 6) 🔶 Marche, Italy: +2 | 18:26 |
| mefistofeles | sandro_: wait for it... | 18:26 |
| LjL | but next to personal hygiene, environment hygiene is important. in public places there can be periodic disinfection, but with many people around, the best prevention is to wash your hands | 18:26 |
| LjL | this is an extremely important element: it's true of this virus and any infection | 18:26 |
| Brainstorm | sandro_: In all areas, Germany, there are 5620 cases, 11 deaths (0.2% of cases), 46 recoveries as of March 15, 17:20Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 18:27 |
| LjL | now about items that we bring home from outside... those are surfaces that must be contaminated in order to be dangerous. we cannot rule it out as a way of transmission, but it seems highly unlikely. foods are packaged rigorously according to EU directives, and i don't think this is a problem. the problem is the knowledge we must always provide adequate hygiene. | 18:27 |
| LjL | we must also gauge the risk: driving alone in a car with gloves and a mask, i honestly think that based on our assumptions on trasmissions, this is not very justified | 18:28 |
| LjL | on the other hand if you're in a crowded car, [...] a mask can be useful | 18:28 |
| LjL | if you're jogging or running, aside from the fact with a mask you may have problems breathing, since masks are after all a bit of a barrier to breathing, the main thing to keep in mind is social distancing: if you're running alone in a field, it seems difficult to think they could infect anyone. on the other hand if you're running a marathon with others, sure, it could happen, but current laws forbid this kind of activity | 18:29 |
| LjL | question: i'd like to know how you explain the rise in deaths during the past 24 hours but also previous days. is it related to difficulties with ICUs in Lombardy? i am seeing in the past few days, there've been fewer ICU hospitalizations in Lombardy, likely because we've run out of beds. | 18:30 |
| mefistofeles | nice question | 18:30 |
| LjL | answer: i think ICUs have been significantly enhanced. just like i won't express myself on the curve, i also won't express myself on the deaths, because we cannot yet characterize what's happening in a scientifically accurate way. at this time, unfortunately, we can only acknowledge this data, but i am unable to give it an evidence-based interprettaion | 18:30 |
| corecode | bah scientists | 18:31 |
| corecode | always with their facts | 18:31 |
| LjL | about ICU beds, we are 40 people now working on lightening the load of Lombardy ICU units. we have many units in Italy and we're working to transfer patients to other regions and support Lombardy | 18:31 |
| LjL | [but they talk of like 6 transfers a day?] | 18:31 |
| LjL | i haven't had any news, and i think neither has anyone, about deaths due to Lombardy being unable to assist any patients | 18:31 |
| LjL | when Lombardy asks us to lighten their ICU load, we do it | 18:32 |
| LjL | [yeah sure] | 18:32 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 18:32 |
| LjL | question: since you said no region can consider itself exempt from the issue... a question about Puglia, since tomorrow the deaths doubled and the cases also, is this something you're particularly worried about? | 18:32 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, who knows | 18:32 |
| mefistofeles | s/tomorrow/yesterday ? | 18:32 |
| mefistofeles | or today | 18:33 |
| corecode | meh journalist questions | 18:33 |
| LjL | answer: the answer to this was partly given previously... and partly, there is an issue with let's call them "migrations" during the past days, which inevitably make it easier for the virus to infect people in more areas | 18:33 |
| corecode | live translation is not easyh | 18:33 |
| LjL | it's been about a week since the adoption of the early measures, and in the next few days we'll be able to understand better how these measures impact the curves | 18:33 |
| LjL | i believe there isn't a hiding place in our country where you can hide and be safe, and really, there isn't such a place even in all of Europe | 18:33 |
| LjL | the only way to win this battle is by all behaving correctly | 18:33 |
| Spec | --> crowds stores to buy toilet paper | 18:34 |
| LjL | the data confirm that the most vulnerable people in our community can get the most appropriate care | 18:34 |
| LjL | question: have you already located the best hotel structures to requisition? | 18:34 |
| LjL | answer: we have worked on this with our regional civil protection sections. our colleagues in the region have made a plan for requisitioning, and we will enact it if it will be necessary | 18:34 |
| LjL | --- end | 18:34 |
| oriba | Old school: let me laugh at you. new way: let me cough at you! :-) | 18:35 |
| LjL | corecode, looks like i can mostly keep up, but there's so much useless repetition | 18:35 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, it happens | 18:35 |
| LjL | i will start typing again from the start (which i missed) now | 18:36 |
| LjL | --- | 18:36 |
| LjL | today's data: | 18:36 |
| mefistofeles | there wer a couple of nice questions, and the expected conservative answers, for sure | 18:36 |
| LjL | +369 recovered, 2335 total | 18:36 |
| LjL | +2853 new cases, total 20603, of which 9268 are in self-isolation at home without symptoms or with mild symptoms, 1672 in ICU | 18:36 |
| LjL | percentage still being 10% | 18:36 |
| dunnp | US News Conference at 5pm - wonder if they are going to put in more Italian-like measures | 18:36 |
| LjL | --- okay that is it, i had only missed this part | 18:37 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: thanks | 18:37 |
| tinwhiskers | dunnp: how many hours away is that? | 18:38 |
| dunnp | 3.5 hrs | 18:38 |
| tinwhiskers | Ta | 18:38 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: will there be a live feed/stream online? | 18:39 |
| Spec | dunnp: news conference? | 18:39 |
| dunnp | mefistofeles: I'm sure that there will be | 18:39 |
| dunnp | trump just announced it | 18:39 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: ok | 18:40 |
| LjL | 5pm EST? | 18:41 |
| Spec | ah, a white house conference | 18:42 |
| X-Scale | https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/672682001559453727/688802906559741961/ETKpKuwXsAITLxf.png | 18:45 |
| LjL | X-Scale, i saw a graph that probably tried to do a similar thing, plotted curves for various places starting from when they got 100 cases. it's just a graph with no numbers, and also not up to date though | 18:47 |
| Spec | yeah | 18:47 |
| corecode | meh, forget the diagnosed cases | 18:49 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +239 cases (now 167859), +2 recoveries (now 76574) 🔶 Germany: +175 cases (now 5795) 🔸 Andorra: +4 cases (now 5) 🔸 Canada: +58 cases (now 313) 🔸 Czechia: +22 cases (now 253) 🔸 Estonia: +36 cases (now 171) 🔸 India: +3 cases (now 111) 🔸 Iraq: +5 cases (now 116) 🔸 Jamaica: +2 cases (now 10), +2 recoveries (now 2) 🔸 Norway: +1 cases (now 1220) 🔸 Tunisia: +2 cases (now 20) 🔸 US: +21 cases (now | 18:56 |
| bigfluff | %stats oregon | 18:57 |
| Brainstorm | RuntimeError: dictionary changed size during iteration (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/info.py", line 389, in stats) | 18:57 |
| bigfluff | %data oregon | 18:57 |
| Brainstorm | bigfluff: In Oregon, US, there are 36 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 15, 04:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 18:57 |
| mefistofeles | %data Germany | 18:58 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Germany, there are 5795 cases, 11 deaths (0.2% of cases), 46 recoveries as of March 15, 17:50Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 18:58 |
| aradesh | a supermarket in england: https://streamable.com/815k6 | 18:58 |
| aradesh | o.O | 18:58 |
| aradesh | insane | 18:58 |
| corecode | wtf | 18:59 |
| corecode | why | 18:59 |
| corecode | what for | 18:59 |
| mefistofeles | woah | 18:59 |
| corecode | something for free? | 18:59 |
| corecode | free ps5 | 18:59 |
| Spec | "<x> considers <y> as cases unexpectedly grow" is getting real old | 19:00 |
| mefistofeles | Spec: what do you mean? | 19:00 |
| Spec | as local state officials realize this problem doesn't go away with inaction | 19:01 |
| Spec | and start to "consider" implementing safeguards/social distancing | 19:01 |
| Spec | isn't there enough data and models out to conclude now is the time to implement basic social distancing requirements at all levels, in most places? | 19:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 18:00 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: French Minister of Health warns: → https://is.gd/uf6TCp | 19:02 |
| p_hpd[m] | What is the number of infected in Denmark now ? | 19:03 |
| Spec | %data denmark | 19:03 |
| Brainstorm | Spec: In all areas, Denmark, there are 864 cases, 2 deaths (0.2% of cases), 1 recoveries as of March 15, 17:50Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Denmark for time series data. | 19:03 |
| mefistofeles | Spec: what do you mean "all levels"? | 19:04 |
| mefistofeles | how a "generalized" social distancing does not cover all levels? | 19:04 |
| BravoEchoNovembe | !cases Germany | 19:06 |
| p_hpd[m] | Brainstorm: they don't test people anymore | 19:06 |
| Guest71868 | !cases | 19:06 |
| BravoEchoNovembe | %cases Germany | 19:06 |
| Brainstorm | BravoEchoNovembe: In all areas, Germany, there are 5795 cases, 11 deaths (0.2% of cases), 46 recoveries as of March 15, 18:00Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 19:06 |
| Guest71868 | %cases | 19:06 |
| Brainstorm | Guest71868: Sorry, !cases not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 19:06 |
| HeXiLeD | is there a way and or info somewhere to get the cases by city? | 19:07 |
| HeXiLeD | or at least region/provice/state? | 19:07 |
| p_hpd[m] | some photos from Italy?? | 19:07 |
| mefistofeles | HeXiLeD: not that easily, not every country is reporting by region<7city | 19:07 |
| pwr22 | <aradesh "a supermarket in england: https:"> CostCo isn't a normal supermarket | 19:07 |
| pwr22 | Still crazy though | 19:07 |
| pwr22 | It's a wholesale outlet | 19:07 |
| mefistofeles | HeXiLeD: only China, US and Italy doing it, afaik | 19:07 |
| pwr22 | People go there to buy in huge bulk even without the virus 😁 | 19:08 |
| Spec | mefistofeles: we have different levels of government here in the states | 19:08 |
| berndj | has this virus done anything to atmospheric CO2 levels? i saw that comparison pic of NOx levels around wuhan, was most impressed | 19:08 |
| mefistofeles | Spec: I see | 19:08 |
| balaa[m] | Gargle warm salt water frequently if you start to have a sour / scratchy throat | 19:09 |
| pwr22 | So who knows how much they're buying now | 19:09 |
| balaa[m] | * Gargle warm salt water frequently if you start to have a sore / scratchy throat | 19:09 |
| pwr22 | balaa: citation needed? | 19:09 |
| dividediff[m] | berndj: I heard something similar so I think so | 19:10 |
| python476 | o/ | 19:10 |
| dividediff[m] | Peter Roberts: I believe it helps the irritated sensation in a throat | 19:10 |
| dividediff[m] | Anybody have any lotion recommendations? To much handwashing | 19:11 |
| balaa[m] | https://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/does-gargling-wlth-salt-water-ease-a-sore-throat | 19:11 |
| adventurer | honey is good for sore throats and zinc lozenger might thelp killing some o fthe germs in your mouth and throat | 19:11 |
| corecode | how? | 19:12 |
| dividediff[m] | adventurer: however studies have not been conducted on zinc and this corona said my pharmacist tdy | 19:12 |
| aradesh | pwr22: that is true. | 19:12 |
| aradesh | it is not ordinary... | 19:12 |
| aradesh | i've never been to a costco | 19:12 |
| corecode | dividediff[m]: there seem to have been, but not double blind in vivo | 19:12 |
| dividediff[m] | Aside from Petroleum jelly | 19:12 |
| dividediff[m] | To Moisturize | 19:13 |
| Spec | dividediff[m]: maybe aloe vera | 19:13 |
| dividediff[m] | corecode: about zinc? | 19:13 |
| dividediff[m] | Or if anybody has suggestions on how to touch things and not get them oily from petroleum jelly | 19:14 |
| dividediff[m] | Anybody else have dryer hands? | 19:14 |
| adventurer | dividediff[m], i did and all i had was sunscreen nd it seemed to help | 19:15 |
| adventurer | fixed them up | 19:15 |
| adventurer | nappy rash cream has zinc and heals cracked skin | 19:16 |
| adventurer | or hurt skin | 19:16 |
| adventurer | i don't know though | 19:16 |
| adventurer | you'd get something from the chemist | 19:16 |
| adventurer | specific | 19:16 |
| dividediff[m] | Will look it up. Nappy rash cream has worked for you? | 19:16 |
| corecode | dividediff[m]: moisturize hands? | 19:17 |
| HeXiLeD | i was following this for a while https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 but seems not to be updated in real time anymore. Is there a WHO page for the same type of info? | 19:17 |
| corecode | i need to use moisturizing lotion anyways | 19:17 |
| adventurer | nappy rash cream heals babbies butts that have been wet too long | 19:17 |
| adventurer | high zinc content | 19:17 |
| adventurer | moisturizing cream | 19:17 |
| corecode | how does the zinc help? | 19:18 |
| adventurer | https://www.chemistwarehouse.com.au/buy/46349/sudocrem-healing-cream-125g-for-nappy-rash this heals it | 19:19 |
| adventurer | i don't know i am not a doctor | 19:19 |
| HeXiLeD | last 24h 3590 new cases in italy. 368 deaths | 19:19 |
| adventurer | ask the chemist | 19:19 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, the graphs in the channel topic are more up to date | 19:20 |
| LjL | and the bot posted the news from italy | 19:20 |
| adventurer | put some moisturizer on and some cotton gloves after | 19:20 |
| LjL | (and i typed the whole press confereence) | 19:20 |
| adventurer | before bed | 19:20 |
| HeXiLeD | LjL: how about https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries | 19:20 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, sure that's one of the more up to date place, and it's mentioned in the list of links in the topic, too | 19:21 |
| LjL | but offloop.net draws data *from* that as well as from elsewhere | 19:21 |
| HeXiLeD | how about any smartphone apps? anything around ? | 19:22 |
| LjL | dunno, in some countries there definitely are (China, Korea), but worldwide? i'd rather just have a mobile-friendly website | 19:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:14 UTC: (news): Americans returning from abroad face hours-long lines at US airports for coronavirus screening → https://is.gd/xtXkp4 | 19:22 |
| adventurer | sunscreen made my dry skin better as it was all i had on hand make sense...moisturises and haas some zinc in it | 19:23 |
| dividediff[m] | <adventurer "put some moisturizer on and some"> adventurer: why would cotton gloves help before bed ? I would think The cotton gloves would absorb th Moisturizer | 19:23 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +106 cases (now 167965), +1 deaths (now 6461), +6 recoveries (now 76580) 🔸 Andorra: +4 cases (now 5) 🔸 Canada: +58 cases (now 313) 🔸 Czechia: +22 cases (now 253) 🔸 Estonia: +36 cases (now 171) 🔸 India: +3 recoveries (now 13) 🔸 Ireland: +40 cases (now 169) 🔸 Jordan: +2 cases (now 10) 🔸 Norway: +10 cases (now 1230) 🔸 Poland: +4 cases (now 123) 🔸 South Africa: +10 cases (now 61) 🔸 US: +40 cas | 19:23 |
| adventurer | go to doctor or chemist and get specific stuff though and cotton gloves if it's bad | 19:23 |
| dividediff[m] | adventurer: by chemist You mean pharmacist? | 19:24 |
| corecode | adventurer: there is a lotion that works real well for me, but it only exists in this country, so meh | 19:25 |
| corecode | you gotta go and try things | 19:26 |
| dividediff[m] | corecode: What’s the main ingredients? | 19:26 |
| corecode | i don't know | 19:27 |
| dividediff[m] | Today I learned that nappy rash is diaper rash | 19:27 |
| corecode | Aqua, Behenyl Alcohol, Glycerin, Oenothera Biennis Oil, Paraffinum Liquidum, Ethylhexyl Palmitate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Niacinamide, Panthenol, Squalane, Ceteth-10, Steareth-20, Dimethicone, Glycine Soja Oil, Tocopherol, Disodium EDTA, Parfum, Polyaminopropyl Biguanide, Sodium Hydroxide | 19:27 |
| dividediff[m] | corecode: hmm | 19:28 |
| dividediff[m] | Ty | 19:28 |
| Biep[m] | Probably the first three ingredients are the bulk. | 19:30 |
| dividediff[m] | TRUE I wasn’t looking forward to Research all of those ingredients, but 3 is all right | 19:32 |
| aradesh | o.O https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/14/italians-80-will-left-die-country-overwhelmed-coronavirus/ | 19:35 |
| corecode | surprised? | 19:36 |
| aradesh | "Coronavirus victims in Italy will be denied access to intensive care if they are aged 80 or more or in poor health should pressure on beds increase, a document prepared by a crisis management unit in Turin propose." | 19:36 |
| corecode | it'll happen everywhere | 19:36 |
| aradesh | i thought the whole point was to protect the vulnerable? | 19:36 |
| corecode | protect | 19:36 |
| corecode | not fix | 19:36 |
| LjL | Spec, all the shows on TV that have a studio audience now show a "Recorded before emergency decree" lettering | 19:36 |
| corecode | LjL: why do they have a studio audience at all? | 19:36 |
| corecode | aaa | 19:37 |
| Spec | LjL: lol | 19:37 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 New York, US: +116 cases (now 729), +1 deaths (now 3) 🔸 Andorra: +4 cases (now 5) 🔸 New South Wales, Australia: +22 cases (now 134) 🔸 Queensland, Australia: +15 cases (now 61) 🔸 South Australia, Australia: +1 cases (now 20) 🔸 Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 6) 🔸 Victoria, Australia: +8 cases (now 57) 🔸 Brazil: +11 cases (now 162) 🔸 Canada: +58 cases (now 313) 🔸 China: +8 cases (now 81003), +13 recov | 19:37 |
| Spec | i hate laugh tracks so much | 19:37 |
| LjL | corecode, because... i don't know, applause and stuff? i'm not so into how TV works | 19:37 |
| aradesh | seems like boris johnson's plans are going to wipe out his voter base | 19:37 |
| corecode | why? | 19:37 |
| aradesh | the over 70's | 19:37 |
| Spec | corecode: some shows are so terrible they need an audience to fake social cues to increase ratings | 19:37 |
| aradesh | because he's not properly controlling the virus | 19:37 |
| corecode | isn't he saying "stay home if you're old"? | 19:38 |
| aradesh | yeah but i dont' see them obeying. they're stubborn. | 19:38 |
| LjL | that won't magically spare the elderly | 19:38 |
| aradesh | and all the young people will have it, and give it them | 19:38 |
| LjL | they are stubborn and/or they need food and medicines and things | 19:38 |
| corecode | LjL: no contact, no infection | 19:38 |
| aradesh | my dad definitely will ignore that advice | 19:38 |
| corecode | so if he's ignoring advice, what more do you want? | 19:38 |
| LjL | no contact at all means starving so there is that | 19:38 |
| corecode | my parents in law are no longer going shopping | 19:39 |
| aradesh | and the "young people" generally include the staff of retirement homes | 19:39 |
| dividediff[m] | Italy is in the EU still right? I thought eu has protocols to help each other, like building new hospitals like China | 19:39 |
| mefistofeles | distancing doesn't mean no contact, fwiw | 19:39 |
| corecode | i don't think the EU has that | 19:39 |
| Spec | LjL: now's as good of a time as any to eat the rich | 19:39 |
| aradesh | dividediff[m]: if it was just italy with these problems, i'm sure they'd be right on it | 19:39 |
| corecode | mefistofeles: what does it mean? | 19:39 |
| aradesh | but it's europe-wide | 19:39 |
| corecode | world wide | 19:40 |
| aradesh | yeah, but i mean from the EU's perspectiev, sorry. | 19:40 |
| mefistofeles | corecode: less contact as possible, I guess, but starving to death because of it is not a possibility | 19:40 |
| corecode | tho india is surprisingly low | 19:40 |
| corecode | mefistofeles: of course not | 19:40 |
| aradesh | generally its affecting countries where more people come/go | 19:40 |
| corecode | aradesh: initially | 19:40 |
| LjL | <dividediff[m]> Italy is in the EU still right? I thought eu has protocols to help each other, like building new hospitals like China ← italian *regions* are saying "we can't help Lombardy because we are preparing for our own wave of cases"... and so far they've manage to move, like, 30 people in total from Lombardy's hospitals to other regions. so imagine other *countries* | 19:40 |
| corecode | once you're in community spread | 19:41 |
| GeDaMo | The numbers look better if you don't test :| | 19:41 |
| corecode | LjL: that's pretty crazy | 19:41 |
| mefistofeles | GeDaMo: not really | 19:41 |
| corecode | well i guess italy is a relatively new construct as well | 19:41 |
| dividediff[m] | How did china, one country, build two hospitals? Like shouldn’t Italy be able to at least commandeer all the hotels? | 19:41 |
| corecode | unlike china | 19:41 |
| corecode | which is a real old construct | 19:41 |
| aradesh | yeah i gather they're giving up testing mostly in the UK. i hear there are thousands of people who have asked for testing as they think they have coronavirus, but they still haven't been tested | 19:41 |
| corecode | aradesh: i don't think they need to be tested, they just need to self isolate | 19:42 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], hotels are ready to be requisitioned, but they don't happen to come with ventilators and crashcarts installed in the rooms | 19:42 |
| LjL | unfortunately | 19:42 |
| dividediff[m] | I suspect India isn’t testing | 19:42 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: probably | 19:42 |
| mefistofeles | as many latin american countries | 19:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 18:34 UTC: /u/slakmehl: On advisory below, note that in the United States, Paracetamol = Acetaminophen (e.g. Tylenol). → https://is.gd/AwOMJH | 19:42 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: I don’t know Enough to say, but I would think they could renovate the rooms quickly and make something happen | 19:43 |
| HeXiLeD | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETKoXpLWkAYO8mt?format=jpg&name=large | 19:43 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], yes, i think they have probably thought of that | 19:44 |
| LjL | making something happen | 19:44 |
| aradesh | corecode: yes but it's good to keep track of how many cases there are, and where... | 19:44 |
| LjL | but ventilators don't build themselves, that's the main issue | 19:44 |
| aradesh | it shows a lack of effort when they won't even bother testing them | 19:44 |
| dividediff[m] | Anyone else Here Canadian? | 19:44 |
| GeDaMo | https://nationalpost.com/news/world/new-study-suggests-coronavirus-can-live-in-patients-for-five-weeks-after-contagion | 19:45 |
| HeXiLeD | at this moment, does not matter dividediff[m] | 19:46 |
| HeXiLeD | GeDaMo: yup | 19:46 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: I saw something on Reddit that ventilator companies can increase production 5 fold , And that’s without doing something like getting prisoners to make more | 19:46 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], ventilator companies *in Italy*? | 19:47 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], because with masks, for example, we have contracts for 50 million of them, but many of those were later cancelled by the companies that make them, because their whole production was requisitioned by their country, and Italy itself produces *no* mass | 19:47 |
| LjL | masks* | 19:47 |
| pwr22 | I really hope we can somehow mass produce / innovate on ventilators | 19:47 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: darn | 19:48 |
| dividediff[m] | So basically even countries are hoarding | 19:48 |
| cews | LjL: who, France? | 19:48 |
| LjL | not sure i can blame them | 19:48 |
| cews | https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/06/coronavirus-french-protective-mask-manufacturer-scraps-nhs-order-to-keep-masks-in-france | 19:49 |
| LjL | cews, france for one i've definitely heard are requisitioning them, but, the thing about *italian* contracts i heard from Borrelli in one of the civil protection press conferences. he didn't name any countries, just said that was the situation | 19:49 |
| cews | Italy are in a lot of debt, hope they hold up! | 19:49 |
| mefistofeles | are there any ventilators manufacturers in Italy? | 19:50 |
| dividediff[m] | Canada has in a lot of debt too, I’ve been wondering how Canada will make it. | 19:50 |
| dividediff[m] | I think Canada. Has a lot of debt** | 19:50 |
| cews | "Italy owes $2.3 trillion (€2.06 trillion) in public debt. That's around 133% of its GDP — a massive ratio that puts it in the top five in the world" Source - dw.com | 19:51 |
| corecode | ah whatever | 19:51 |
| cews | In 2018 Canada public debt was 1,303,612 million euros 1,539,565 million dollars, has decreased 52,549 million since 2017. | 19:51 |
| dividediff[m] | Do you guys think the virus will spread back Into China? | 19:52 |
| LjL | cews, i doubt any country will be in a great economy situation after this, for whatever meaning of "after". what i suspect is that purported "help" from China (masks etc) is actually something that will indebt us with China to an extent that we'll become heavily influenced by it | 19:53 |
| LjL | but can anyone really care about that now | 19:53 |
| cews | dividediff[m]: it already has, but potentially | 19:53 |
| corecode | why won't they be in great economy situation? | 19:54 |
| dividediff[m] | cews: wait it has?! | 19:54 |
| Spec | corecode: have you seen the global markets? | 19:54 |
| corecode | that's just stocks | 19:54 |
| corecode | not economy | 19:54 |
| Principal8 | I wonder if it is worth it. Save a few 100 thousands of lives for expending trillions of dollars | 19:55 |
| cews | dividediff[m]: https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/mainland-china-reports-20-new-coronavirus-cases-10-more-deaths | 19:55 |
| LjL | corecode, because much of our economic activity has been halted? | 19:55 |
| Spec | and a slow down in production and services across the board due to quarantines | 19:55 |
| corecode | yea but it'll start again | 19:55 |
| corecode | she'll be fine | 19:55 |
| LjL | good to know | 19:55 |
| corecode | post war were super productive years too | 19:55 |
| dividediff[m] | cews: You’re pretty fast with the searching ha ha, thanks | 19:55 |
| LjL | post war they built buildings that are now crumbling down because they were basically made with sand | 19:55 |
| corecode | now they're going to repatriate industries | 19:56 |
| corecode | and that will create a lot of activity | 19:56 |
| cews | dividediff[m]: https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1234681112212803593?s=20 | https://twitter.com/lookner/status/1235730811359555584?s=20 | 19:56 |
| corecode | yea that's the problem with containment - you're still vulnerable | 19:57 |
| dividediff[m] | corecode: isn’t problem that not all of China is contained? Just Wuhan | 19:58 |
| LjL | all of China is barely registering cases, so either they're containing it pretty well in all regions, or they're lying | 19:59 |
| corecode | i think all of china is contained | 19:59 |
| dividediff[m] | I guess a better question, do you guys think that the virus will spread back into Wuhan ? | 19:59 |
| corecode | yes of course | 19:59 |
| LjL | i think the main issue with Wuhan will be when (soon) they start reopening things | 20:00 |
| LjL | i think they want to do it gradually, but i don't know the specifics | 20:00 |
| dividediff[m] | corecode: I guess it depends what we mean by contained. I was talking more so about quarantined with people basically all under house arrest | 20:01 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: I think that if they timed it properly it would barely introduce new cases example not re-opening public transit for a while | 20:02 |
| corecode | contained means trace all known cases and contacts | 20:02 |
| corecode | until there is no more new infections | 20:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:41 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK medical schools urged to fast-track final-year students to help fight coronavirus → https://is.gd/TJvmAj | 20:02 |
| dividediff[m] | Today i learned What contained means | 20:02 |
| RougeR | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/coronavirus-health-experts-fear-epidemic-will-let-rip-through-uk | 20:03 |
| RougeR | HeRd ImMuNiTy | 20:03 |
| aradesh | do we know if there are any long-term effects of having had coronavirus? it doesn't stay with us for the rest of our lives does it? like HIV | 20:03 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], hopefully, but it'll be tricky | 20:03 |
| LjL | corecode, sure, ideally. will it really happen that way? | 20:04 |
| balaa[m] | <aradesh "do we know if there are any long"> I have heard accounts of permanent lung damage. Diminished lung capacity | 20:04 |
| dividediff[m] | RougeR: don’t have to worry about corona if we all die” -some politician | 20:04 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 20:04 |
| RougeR | dividediff[m], - if the weak and poor die * | 20:04 |
| Spec | aradesh: unknown as of yet, but yeah, i've read some fibrosis for severe cases | 20:04 |
| dividediff[m] | aradesh: i’ve heard the same lung thing. Except it’s not too bad if it doesn’t make you very sick | 20:05 |
| dividediff[m] | My head theory is that if somebody is very sick, they literally cough up pt Of a lung And that it doesn’t grow back | 20:06 |
| aradesh | okay... but providing we don't get extremely sick | 20:07 |
| LjL | aradesh, providing that, we don't know | 20:08 |
| LjL | aradesh, you'd like to hear "no", you won't hear "no" unless someone is... overeager in jumping from possibility to certainty | 20:09 |
| Spec | dividediff[m]: fibrosis is due to scarring left behind due to damage | 20:09 |
| Spec | and that's not really a long term residence of the virus sort of thing, it's just physical damage | 20:10 |
| aradesh | LjL: so its still unknown then i guess | 20:10 |
| LjL | aradesh, yes | 20:10 |
| aradesh | LjL: it could be that coronaviruses are well understood in general enough, that we did have an answer | 20:10 |
| dividediff[m] | So for cures i’ve heard we have nothing besides religion. But my question, which religion provides the best protection? I want to see some double blind randomized trials. (I’m mostly joking) | 20:10 |
| aradesh | that's why i was asking | 20:10 |
| yuriwho | fantastic article in ACS-Central Science reviewing all treatment and vaccine research: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acscentsci.0c00272 | 20:11 |
| dividediff[m] | Spec: Is the physical damage due to coughing too much? | 20:11 |
| Spec | i'm not really a virologist so i can only speculate | 20:11 |
| Spec | but probably not | 20:12 |
| LjL | aradesh, you don't need to justify why you're asking, i'm telling you that i'd love to say "no" but given even what we know about coronaviruses, i can't say "no", and that's after checking with other people who have more of a clue than me :( | 20:12 |
| GeDaMo | https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/2020/02/here-is-what-coronavirus-does-to-the-body/ | 20:13 |
| GeDaMo | «According to the WHO, SARS punched holes in the lungs, giving them “a honeycomb-like appearance”—and these lesions are present in those afflicted by novel coronavirus, too.» | 20:13 |
| dividediff[m] | Spec: OK, my head canon largely still checks out Ha ha | 20:14 |
| dividediff[m] | GeDaMo: nvm my Head canon was wrong | 20:14 |
| Evolver | %data New York | 20:14 |
| Brainstorm | Evolver: In New York, US, there are 729 cases, 3 deaths (0.4% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 15, 04:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 20:14 |
| Spec | yeah, that was my understanding too, GeDaMo | 20:14 |
| Spec | aradesh: -- do you know of any long term studies done for the survivors of SARS? | 20:14 |
| aradesh | no i don't | 20:15 |
| Spec | it's the closest we'd have available | 20:15 |
| dividediff[m] | Correct me if I’m wrong, this is the second coronavirus that humanity has ever faced. First was SARS | 20:15 |
| Spec | no | 20:15 |
| Spec | MERS was another | 20:15 |
| GeDaMo | The common cold is a coronavirus | 20:16 |
| Evolver | %data Connecticut | 20:16 |
| Brainstorm | Evolver: In Connecticut, US, there are 24 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 15, 04:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 20:16 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], no, there's also MERS, and some coronaviruses that cause common cold (among other things that cause it) | 20:16 |
| Spec | and coronavirus is also a rarer common cold | 20:16 |
| python476 | is this chan growth exponential ? | 20:16 |
| Spec | most common colds are rhinovirus though | 20:16 |
| dividediff[m] | Huh | 20:16 |
| corecode | GeDaMo: wa? | 20:16 |
| Spec | I think there's 2 or 3 "common cold" coronaviruses | 20:16 |
| python476 | should we use '\n\n\n' to space our messages ? | 20:16 |
| LjL | GeDaMo, that is not an accurate statement. the common cold is a syndrome that can be caused by a number of viruses, the most common being rhinovirus that is not a coronavirus. among them, some are coronavirus. | 20:16 |
| Evolver | ^ | 20:16 |
| GeDaMo | OK | 20:16 |
| python476 | corecode: coronaviruses are what we call a cold | 20:16 |
| corecode | no | 20:16 |
| Evolver | python476: not correct | 20:16 |
| LjL | python476, read above please | 20:16 |
| corecode | some colds are caused by some coronaviruses | 20:17 |
| python476 | LjL yeah message crossing | 20:17 |
| corecode | but they are very different from this one | 20:17 |
| python476 | but I swear I read that on some article last week | 20:17 |
| dividediff[m] | So if there are so many other coronaviruses, any ideas why this one caught humanity so offguard? | 20:17 |
| python476 | I now proclaim rhinoviruses non real. | 20:17 |
| LjL | python476, also, probably not but i am not keeping track of the amount of people in the channel, i think someone wanted me to before, but then i forgot | 20:17 |
| corecode | i guess their S protein doesn't go for the ACE2 receptor? | 20:17 |
| python476 | LjL: no worries | 20:17 |
| Evolver | dividediff[m]: isn't it obvious. China had a major coverup operation. | 20:17 |
| corecode | oh, can somebody explain virology to me? i'd like to learn more about the different genes | 20:17 |
| LjL | python476, although it may be more meaningful to look at the amount of traffic than the amount of people anyway | 20:18 |
| Spec | corecode: read through the sources in the topic first please | 20:18 |
| corecode | Spec: first before? | 20:18 |
| python476 | LjL: well it may be proportional | 20:18 |
| LjL | python476, i used to have a thing to analyze/graph that but probably only works with versions of PHP and MySQL that are 15 year old | 20:18 |
| Spec | corecode: before asking for more sources to learn fro m:) | 20:18 |
| LjL | corecode, "explain virology", seriously? that's sort of like asking to "explain science" | 20:18 |
| corecode | i looked over the paste when i joined, was there a significant change? | 20:19 |
| python476 | corecode: libgen.lc is waiting for you | 20:19 |
| corecode | LjL: specifically about the genes | 20:19 |
| corecode | what do the different coding regions do? | 20:19 |
| Spec | corecode: you went through all the epidemiology links? | 20:19 |
| dividediff[m] | corecode: I thought you were joking With your question | 20:20 |
| corecode | i'm not asking about epidemiology right now | 20:20 |
| LjL | Evolver, no, that isn't obvious, and i wouldn't state it as obvious | 20:20 |
| corecode | dividediff[m]: about knowing what the different coding regions do? no, i'm really interested | 20:20 |
| Evolver | LjL: There is proof of it: https://j.mp/39Ui8UJ https://j.mp/2xG6RJA | 20:21 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: but Chyna did Cover some of it up | 20:21 |
| python476 | https://external-preview.redd.it/QBgUIRX12UV19GM_cOpybeVXVxnmkvgHnF48jY7tTMc.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=908adfef31314ae115c98c4fb8cdd4755bca8369 | 20:22 |
| python476 | ^ pullitzer price | 20:22 |
| python476 | prize* | 20:22 |
| dividediff[m] | corecode: It’s a big question for a riot shot ha ha, might make a good university course | 20:22 |
| Evolver | As of last week China was mounting a disinformation operation to blame the US for the virus. | 20:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:18 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York governor wants Trump to mobilize army, NYC mayor calls outbreak 'war' → https://is.gd/Ro001B | 20:22 |
| corecode | dividediff[m]: :) i learn fast under sparse information | 20:23 |
| Evolver | LjL: also https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/13/world/asia/coronavirus-china-conspiracy-theory.html | 20:23 |
| Spec | python476: goin' shoot that virus ded | 20:24 |
| dividediff[m] | Why is the gun lineup so long? | 20:25 |
| python476 | Spec: needs more magnifying lens mount on your riffle | 20:25 |
| MoNsTeR | LjL can you cat 40 words out of the story with title so we can get a preview if we want to read? | 20:25 |
| LjL | Evolver, dividediff[m]: yes, it's almost certainly true China could have let the world know earlier. i guess i was interpreting your claim in a... broader way. i think it would have still caught "humanity at large" off-guard, even if China had been quicker to inform. perhaps not as bad, but, consider that in Italy, politicians were talking about how China "bought us time to prepare" by locking down Wuhan, and then, they didn't prepare at all. | 20:25 |
| Evolver | It didn't have to catch "humanity at large off-guard". Compare with how India dealt with a nasty virus: https://j.mp/2QiagVv | 20:26 |
| LjL | MoNsTeR, you mean title as in the bot command %title? it's a bit tricky the way i wrote that command, also i bet some others would consider it too spammy. i've been asked for more "title" before though. have you considered connecting from a Matrix client? you can have URL previews there, and you can turn them on or off. on irc, whatever i choose to do, some people will want the other thing :\ | 20:27 |
| Evolver | China already had SARS-1 and they learned nothing from it. | 20:27 |
| dunnp | corecode: it is a lot of proteins really | 20:27 |
| dividediff[m] | MoNsTeR: I second this request | 20:27 |
| corecode | china let the world know super early | 20:27 |
| Evolver | lol | 20:27 |
| corecode | and then nobody did anything for 2 months | 20:28 |
| tinwhiskers | The world had warning and did nothing | 20:28 |
| corecode | and still aren't, really | 20:28 |
| corecode | dumdeedum | 20:28 |
| Evolver | China delayed letting the world know by a good three months. | 20:28 |
| corecode | dunnp: yea but which one does what | 20:28 |
| corecode | Evolver: citation needed | 20:28 |
| tinwhiskers | Also, I vote no to %title spam. | 20:28 |
| dunnp | we dont know what all of them do | 20:28 |
| Evolver | corecode: https://j.mp/39Ui8UJ | 20:28 |
| Evolver | In fact they knew in November | 20:29 |
| aradesh | EU will likely overtake china in a few days | 20:29 |
| tinwhiskers | Evolver: yes they covered it up, but even when we did know about it we did nothing so knowing earlier wouldn't have changed anything | 20:29 |
| corecode | late december, yes | 20:29 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: how do we turn on url previews ? | 20:29 |
| corecode | and they informed everybody early jan | 20:29 |
| mefistofeles | aradesh: for sure | 20:29 |
| Evolver | tinwhiskers: wrong. It didn't have to spread at all. | 20:29 |
| corecode | the current situation is not because of that delay | 20:29 |
| Evolver | tinwhiskers: Compare with how India nipped a virus in the bud: https://j.mp/2QiagVv | 20:30 |
| MoNsTeR | thx foe the info LjL | 20:30 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], it's off by default for the room, but you can click on the gear icon to the top right, and if you scroll down you'll find "Enable URL previews for this room" | 20:30 |
| dividediff[m] | “How India ... Flying Fox Drool in 2018” I have so many questions lol | 20:30 |
| Evolver | > Within twelve hours experts there determined that it was the Nipah virus, a highly fatal, brain-damaging disease first identified two decades earlier in Malaysia. | 20:31 |
| tinwhiskers | That India food a great job then doesn't excuse the rest of the world for doing nothing and doesn't make China any worse than the rest of the world. Yes, things could have been done better in a lot of places, including China | 20:31 |
| corecode | i think china maybe wasted 3-4 weeks | 20:32 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: hmm thxs, looking | 20:32 |
| corecode | but, they have it under control now | 20:32 |
| corecode | so... | 20:32 |
| corecode | who wasted more? | 20:32 |
| Evolver | Imported cases will rise in China. | 20:32 |
| corecode | they will | 20:32 |
| dunnp | corecode: and example of similar proteins from SARS https://www.nature.com/articles/nrmicro775/tables/1?draft=journal | 20:32 |
| tinwhiskers | The US has arguably been a lot more lax than China | 20:33 |
| Evolver | Remember the 1918 virus and how it came back after many months to kill too many. | 20:33 |
| corecode | dunnp: thank you! | 20:33 |
| dunnp | there has been more work like Nsp7&8 are a new RNA polymerase | 20:33 |
| tinwhiskers | Evolver: yeah, all-round shoddy efforts | 20:33 |
| tinwhiskers | (a few good efforts) | 20:34 |
| LjL | Evolver, well that's unsettling i have to admit. but the Indian virus sounds like it's more like MERS: highly fatal, but more easily transmissible via very close contact, so it could have resulted in a persisting epidemic but mostly confined in healthcare settings maybe. COVID-19 seems so damn highly infectious. but still, it would certainly have been helpful if China had said everything as they knew it. | 20:34 |
| Evolver | It was Nipah | 20:34 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: they also knew about it already | 20:34 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: I legit have eye problems so maybe I missed it but I think it’s not there an iPhone | 20:34 |
| corecode | dunnp: so it carries several RdRP? | 20:34 |
| dunnp | seems so | 20:35 |
| corecode | this is super interesting, thank you | 20:36 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], oh, i was assuming desktop, i don't know on a phone. i can try enabling it globally for the room and you can see if it has any effect. but i suspect a phone client would default to assuming URL previews are too spammy | 20:36 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: Also why Doesn’t this room have an address? | 20:36 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], doesn't it? | 20:36 |
| dunnp | 7&8 looks like it can act as a primer-independent so that gets replication started | 20:36 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: I sent screenshots of what I see | 20:36 |
| Evolver | Living in a heavily affected county, I'm already confident I had covid-19 over the past week. | 20:37 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: It says “ this room has no local address “ | 20:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Evolver: which country? | 20:37 |
| Evolver | US | 20:37 |
| corecode | uh | 20:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Unlikely | 20:38 |
| corecode | how do you know it is heavily affected? | 20:38 |
| Evolver | fuck you guys | 20:38 |
| dividediff[m] | Evolver: I don’t know about heavily affected | 20:38 |
| Evolver | idiots | 20:38 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 20:38 |
| corecode | oh wow | 20:38 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +128 cases (now 168170), +29 deaths (now 6490) 🔸 Andorra: +4 cases (now 5) 🔸 New South Wales, Australia: +22 cases (now 134) 🔸 Queensland, Australia: +15 cases (now 61) 🔸 South Australia, Australia: +1 cases (now 20) 🔸 Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 6) 🔸 Victoria, Australia: +8 cases (now 57) 🔸 Brazil: +11 cases (now 162) 🔸 Canada: +62 cases (now 317) 🔸 China: +8 cases (now 81003), +13 recov | 20:38 |
| mefistofeles | Evolver: mind the language, don't call other idiots only because they doubt your claims | 20:38 |
| corecode | i mean, it would be great for the US if it was heavily affected and still so few deaths | 20:38 |
| Evolver | tinwhiskers: I said county, not country, so think before you accuse someone of being false | 20:38 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], i had the "lack of address" problem when i was using an older version of Riot.im (desktop, i don't remember what the Android version showed). but now in my current client i see its address, which is supposed to be #covid-19:matrix.org (with a few other aliases) | 20:38 |
| tinwhiskers | Evolver: my apologies | 20:39 |
| corecode | ah county | 20:39 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], i am not entirely sure if there's something wrong with the room itself, or it's just old client versions that are incompatible | 20:39 |
| corecode | what are the per polulation numbers over there? | 20:39 |
| corecode | i mean, if you had it and got over it, good for you | 20:39 |
| corecode | unfortunately we don't have antibody tests yet, i think | 20:39 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: The address seems to work So it seems like it’s an iPhone problem | 20:39 |
| tinwhiskers | It's still unlikely :-) | 20:40 |
| Evolver | Westchester county, NY. I don't know the numbers but they're high. | 20:40 |
| tinwhiskers | But it's possible | 20:40 |
| dunnp | 178 confirmed in westchester | 20:40 |
| tinwhiskers | Most people do end up getting a mild fever. | 20:40 |
| corecode | what's the population? | 20:40 |
| Evolver | lol you guys are funny. Any informed person knows that testing is extremely difficult to get. | 20:40 |
| dunnp | ~ 1M | 20:40 |
| corecode | i don't know the NY geography | 20:40 |
| LjL | Evolver, even if you're right i'm not going to be okay with insults | 20:40 |
| Evolver | LjL: the insult was on me first | 20:41 |
| corecode | yea of course testing is impossible to get | 20:41 |
| tinwhiskers | So you'd have to be very unlucky to get it and very lucky to not get *any* symptoms. So... Unlikely | 20:41 |
| Evolver | I didn't say no symptoms you idiot | 20:41 |
| Evolver | I'm done talking to idiots here | 20:41 |
| mefistofeles | Evolver: ok, you were warned | 20:41 |
| corecode | bai | 20:41 |
| tinwhiskers | You got a fever? | 20:41 |
| mefistofeles | Evolver: leave | 20:41 |
| dividediff[m] | Maybe you guys don’t know, But there is a ignore function | 20:41 |
| LjL | Evolver, saying that they thought it "unlikely" hardly qualifies as an insult, certainly not nearly as much as "fuck you guys, idiots" or even what you're saying now. if you think everyone here is an idiot, leave. if you don't, correct them when they're wrong with reasoning, evidence, and all that | 20:41 |
| corecode | on matrix as well? | 20:41 |
| LjL | oh well | 20:42 |
| dividediff[m] | Like a ignore user function | 20:42 |
| corecode | poor guy is probably scared | 20:42 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: he's a well known character in freenode, to say the least | 20:42 |
| corecode | or that | 20:42 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], yes, there is even a function i can use as an admit to let everyone ignore someone at once | 20:42 |
| LjL | isn't that fancy | 20:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:39 UTC: (news): These retailers are closing stores to slow coronavirus outbreak → https://is.gd/5KqS67 | 20:42 |
| LjL | admin, even | 20:42 |
| dividediff[m] | I mean like it’s a non-admin function on everybody’s device I believe. Like if someone there’s a Nazi in a room but the room is all right I just use ignore user function | 20:44 |
| tinwhiskers | But I didn't want to ignore him. I just wanted him to realise he was probably mistaken (and should still take care). | 20:44 |
| dividediff[m] | tinwhiskers: you’re a good human! | 20:45 |
| dividediff[m] | Thicker skin than me too ha ha | 20:45 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], i assume that last link Brainstorm posted, you still didn't see a preview? | 20:48 |
| dunnp | https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-usa/germany-tries-to-stop-us-from-luring-away-firm-seeking-coronavirus-vaccine-idUSKBN2120IV | 20:49 |
| dunnp | jfc | 20:49 |
| dividediff[m] | I have heard that the death rate is 3.4% and at minimum it’s supposed to spread to 30% of ppl. There r 7 billion people on earth so running the math: | 20:49 |
| dunnp | BREAKING: Trump is trying to gain EXCLUSIVE rights to a potential vaccine being developed by a German firm, CureVac. This was confirmed by a German government source, who said that Trump is trying to secure the vaccine, “but only for the United States.” | 20:49 |
| dividediff[m] | 70,140,000 deaths Global by the time Corona is finished | 20:51 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | italy is at 7% fatality rate | 20:51 |
| mefistofeles | %data Italy | 20:51 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +951 cases (now 169121), +7 deaths (now 6497) 🔶 US: +104 cases (now 3377), +1 deaths (now 63), +3 recoveries (now 59) 🔶 France: +924 cases (now 5423), +36 deaths (now 127) 🔸 Andorra: +4 cases (now 5) 🔸 New South Wales, Australia: +22 cases (now 134) 🔸 Queensland, Australia: +15 cases (now 61) 🔸 South Australia, Australia: +1 cases (now 20) 🔸 Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 6) 🔸 Victoria, Aus | 20:51 |
| dividediff[m] | Let me know if I am wrong guys | 20:51 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: yea | 20:52 |
| dividediff[m] | v0idkr4ft: oh snap | 20:52 |
| mefistofeles | the rate is estimated to be lower, even lower than 1% from most sources | 20:52 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], v0idkr4ft[m]: it cannot be said with any certainty that the death rate *is* 3.4%, or even worse for italy. that's just the crude deaths/cases calculation, but 1) we don't know the number of cases very well, there may be more, and 2) there is a delay between cases and death. so it could be less or it could be more. many predict something like less than 1% | 20:52 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Italy, there are 24747 cases, 1809 deaths (7.3% of cases), 2335 recoveries as of March 15, 19:50Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 20:52 |
| mefistofeles | but the problem is that it gets dramatically high for certain age groups | 20:53 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | just from what i see on the arcgis map | 20:53 |
| mefistofeles | and of course, this gets worse if the health system gets saturated | 20:53 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | 1441 fatalties / 21157 infected for italy | 20:54 |
| dividediff[m] | I put the 0 in the wrong place (did it by hand, phone didn’t want me to put in 7 billion ) | 20:54 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | https://www.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6 | 20:54 |
| dividediff[m] | 71,400,000 deaths Global by the time Corona is finished | 20:54 |
| mefistofeles | v0idkr4ft[m]: the info that Brainstorm outputs has the same source | 20:54 |
| LjL | dunnp, how charming... but based on the article, the implication Trump only wants it for Americans is a bit indirect. i wouldn't find it particularly hard to believe though | 20:55 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, of course Trump wants it for americans, but that won't stop CureVac to give it to other governments, and Trump won't intervene if that happens | 20:56 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: yeah these a just Basic estimates. If we get real lucky, maybe someone Will invent a CureAnd it’ll be cheap and will say goodbye to By April 1 | 20:56 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | it almost seems like it would be better to get it now while there's rooms in hospitals to get your lung fluid drained, but it seems to be mutating fast enough people are getting reinfected anyway | 20:56 |
| dividediff[m] | * LjL: yeah these a just Basic estimates. If we get real lucky, maybe someone Will invent a CureAnd it’ll be cheap and will say goodbye to Corona April 1 | 20:56 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: where are you getting the 30% percent from? Though | 20:56 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: yeah these a just Basic estimates. If we get real lucky, maybe someone Will invent a CureAnd it’ll be cheap and will say goodbye to Corona April 1 (edited) | 20:57 |
| dividediff[m] | (I don’t know how to delete posts) | 20:57 |
| mefistofeles | v0idkr4ft[m]: it doesn't seem to be mutating that fast | 20:57 |
| mefistofeles | check the references in the topic | 20:57 |
| dividediff[m] | v0idkr4ft: I am requesting a citation | 20:58 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: I’ll go get my citation, | 20:58 |
| LjL | v0idkr4ft[m], to the best of my awareness, that's speculation. there's some tentative evidence of re-infection, which is not even certain. we have no idea whether that's due to mutations... | 20:58 |
| IndoAnon | ??? | 20:58 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | reinfection | 20:58 |
| IndoAnon | well | 20:59 |
| IndoAnon | if their health worsen because of existing viruses in their bodies, then it's not technically a reinfection, right? | 21:00 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-between-30-and-70-per-cent-of-canadians-could-be-infected-with/ | 21:01 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: So I picked the lowest number and I’m assuming that that number reflects other countries to | 21:02 |
| LjL | i heard lots of people yelling outside | 21:02 |
| LjL | hear* | 21:02 |
| corecode | LjL: or just tests didn't catch a remaining amount? | 21:02 |
| LjL | uh i think there's some kind of Wuhan-style flash mob | 21:03 |
| dividediff[m] | IndoAnon: I left the chat you opened up with me | 21:03 |
| LjL | people yelling and flashing flashy lights from the windows | 21:03 |
| Birosso | Italy sounds fun. | 21:03 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: pictures? I guess you’re not on the phone so that’s tougher | 21:03 |
| LjL | I'm not a fan of this, they're using green lasers that look like they run a fair distance | 21:06 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | theoreticaly you should has immunity after being infected as goes the understanding. so reinfection would imply mutation. there is at least 2 strains https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/03/04/discovery-of-2-strains-of-covid-19-coronavirus-hints-at-how-it-evolved/ | 21:07 |
| IndoAnon | dividediff[m]: yeah... thanks | 21:07 |
| LjL | dividediff[m]: I am typing from the phone now as I went to the balcony to see what was happening. But tbh I don't want to post pictures, knowing that my location is "Milan" seems like more than enough, if you get me | 21:07 |
| LjL | i heard people yelling things like "we'll make it" and "hurray for milan" | 21:07 |
| LjL | also stadium-type singing | 21:08 |
| GeDaMo | Sports-related? | 21:08 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: privacy is also the reason I am on riot too | 21:08 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: wait Milan Italy? | 21:08 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], yes that Milan | 21:09 |
| LjL | GeDaMo, no, quarantine-related | 21:09 |
| GeDaMo | Ah | 21:09 |
| LjL | GeDaMo, really they have no words, it's a kind of "na na na na" thing that i associate with football hooligans | 21:09 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: well May the Flying Spaghetti Monster keep you safe. I haven’t read much about Italy, but which areas r quarantined? Reddit Makes it sound like the entire country is | 21:11 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], the entire country is under lockdown. initially it was Lombardy and some nearby areas (for a total of around 15 million people, consider the country's total is 60) but they quickly extended it to the entire country after many people "fled" from Milan back to other regions... which was probably a huge backfiring of the initial lockdown law | 21:12 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], the lockdown is enforced patchily i think. people are often going out anyway. they can find many excuses, because the emergency law allows for going out for work, healthcare, and groceries. then they also agreed that things like walking the dog or just having a run are okay, so well... i'm not sure it's going to work great | 21:13 |
| LjL | we'll see in the coming days i guess | 21:13 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: Hardly a quarantine it sounds like | 21:14 |
| dividediff[m] | Can anyone explain what a quarantine is exactly? | 21:15 |
| twomoon | i'm getting worried about southern italy | 21:15 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], the term is used in a bit of a flexible way. quarantine, isolation, lockdown... they mean different but related things | 21:15 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | I mean usually a quarantine means separating infected from rest of society ideally ... | 21:15 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], people who are found positive are actually "quarantined". they can't go out at all, ever, or it's a crime | 21:15 |
| twomoon | quarantine comes from an italian term meaning 40 days i think | 21:15 |
| dividediff[m] | Containment is when all cases known and The people are being taken care of right? | 21:16 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], the rest of us are under lockdown, which in Wuhan meant initially you could only go out for groceries, then they restricted that to only like one a week and one person only, then at least in some areas you couldn't even do that, but instead people will bring you food... but Italy is not China, we don't have a militia in the streets to enforce things strictly | 21:16 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], yes containment involves tracing all the cases and all the contacts (i.e. possible cases), which is still being done in some countries, but i think most of Italy is way beyond that stage sadly | 21:17 |
| dividediff[m] | OK so: Italy is basically practising social distancing. Unless you’re tested positive and then you’re actually zombie movie quarantined | 21:17 |
| twomoon | self quarantined with legal consequences. not military quarantine | 21:17 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], "social distancing" is yet another thing at least as the term is used here: they mean you should keep a literal distance from other people (of at least one meter, but that's pretty arbitrary in the law, there is evidence you can get it from further away), you cannot shake hands, you cannot gather and do group activities... | 21:18 |
| LjL | the lockdown is more about, you can't leave at all except for certain necessities, and schools are closed, and most shops are closed | 21:18 |
| dividediff[m] | What happens if your self quarantined in Italy because you tested positive and you run out of food? | 21:18 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], food can still be ordered for delivery, although it can take a long time. i dare hope if people are in a dire need, calling an emergency number will result in getting help. but i can't offer much more than hope | 21:19 |
| LjL | as far as i know the "information" number they set up, 1500, is overloaded pretty much all the time. then each region has an 800 number, don't know if those actually answer you, may depend on the region. then i'm sure many people call 112 even when they shouldn't, so it may not be easy to get an operator even from 112. which does mean that, aside from quarantined people starving, if you have a heart attack or a stroke or something you will probably not get | 21:21 |
| LjL | help quickly because you won't get a 112 operator quickly :\ | 21:21 |
| LjL | really this virus cases a lot more problems than just "getting the virus" | 21:21 |
| dividediff[m] | I’ve been thinking for a while that the homeless population that live in shelters will be devastated. Shelters in Canada frequently have 12 people per room I think. Shelters don’t even have doors to the dorms (probably to allow staff to enter quickly] so if one person coughs It could travel through the entire dorm building | 21:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:17 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York governor wants Trump to mobilize army, NYC mayor calls outbreak 'war' → https://is.gd/Ro001B | 21:22 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], as far as i know, many homeless people here avoid shelters like the plauge (ahem) even at normal times | 21:23 |
| LjL | many homeless die from the cold in the winter, even if there would be place for them in the shelters | 21:23 |
| LjL | anyway i'll be away for a bit and have dinner now | 21:23 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: 100%, there will be a Hollywood movie made about the coronavirus. Scenes like that Will be in the movie | 21:23 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +135 cases (now 169256) 🔸 Andorra: +4 cases (now 5) 🔸 New South Wales, Australia: +22 cases (now 134) 🔸 Queensland, Australia: +15 cases (now 61) 🔸 South Australia, Australia: +1 cases (now 20) 🔸 Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 6) 🔸 Victoria, Australia: +8 cases (now 57) 🔸 Brazil: +11 cases (now 162) 🔸 Canada: +62 cases (now 317) 🔸 China: +8 cases (now 81003), +13 recoveries (now 67017) 🔸 | 21:25 |
| dividediff[m] | Remember to disinfect your phones when you come home from an outing People | 21:28 |
| HeXiLeD | dividediff[m]: was already done in 2011. it is called Contagion | 21:30 |
| HeXiLeD | is the bluerprint for this. only 3 things are diffent. the name, one animal and how it kills | 21:30 |
| HeXiLeD | https://imdb.com/title/tt1598778 this should in the topic | 21:32 |
| twomoon | dividediff[m], should we run our clothes through the dryer and take a quick shower when we come back? | 21:33 |
| firewire1394 | %data austria | 21:33 |
| Brainstorm | firewire1394: In all areas, Austria, there are 860 cases, 1 deaths (0.1% of cases), 6 recoveries as of March 15, 20:19Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Austria for time series data. | 21:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:25 UTC: (news): These retailers are closing stores to slow coronavirus outbreak → https://is.gd/5KqS67 | 21:36 |
| RougeR | https://www.ocado.com/ | 21:36 |
| RougeR | >virtual queues on ocado | 21:37 |
| Timvde | LjL: In Italy, how long after the people first started hoarding, did the massive supermarket rush stop? | 21:39 |
| Timvde | (please don't say "it didn't") | 21:39 |
| contingo | ASDA signed the statements along with the other big supermarkets, talking about rationing measures and urging the public not to bulk buy. But their discount surplus / near-expiry / wholesale pricing side business was still marketing bulk order deals to me last week | 21:40 |
| contingo | https://www.approvedfood.co.uk | 21:41 |
| contingo | only now are they low on staples | 21:41 |
| Spec | Timvde: it did sort of, but lines are very long now because only limited number of people allowed into shop at a time | 21:42 |
| Timvde | Spec: But that's not the case here yet | 21:42 |
| Timvde | I just want to go to the supermarket myself one of these days | 21:43 |
| Spec | Timvde: are you in italia, too? | 21:43 |
| Timvde | No, Belgium | 21:43 |
| Timvde | But people started hoarding here last Thursday | 21:43 |
| Spec | is that a reasonable reaction? | 21:43 |
| Timvde | And the shelves have been pretty empty because the personnel couldn't restock | 21:43 |
| twomoon | very good question Timvde | 21:44 |
| Timvde | So I just wonder when I can go to the supermarket myself and expect shelves to be not empty | 21:44 |
| twomoon | i am wondering the same at this point. the hoarders took all the paper products, maybe to resell | 21:44 |
| Spec | some people are pretty garbage | 21:45 |
| Timvde | The hoarders definitely didn't take all, the bottleneck was personnel that couldn't keep up restocking | 21:45 |
| GeDaMo | I shopped yesterday and overheard staff saying they were getting people from other stores to help | 21:45 |
| Timvde | And of course, I'd also like to go when it's a bit less crowded | 21:46 |
| dividediff[m] | <twomoon "dividediff, should we run our cl"> Techically speaking you could just change into your pjs. The corona lives for ~3 hrs on metal, 1 hr cardboard. So leaving your clothes away from your face for a few hrs should help | 21:46 |
| Timvde | dividediff[m]: good point, I'll keep that in mind | 21:47 |
| contingo | where are you getting that surface persistence data? | 21:48 |
| dividediff[m] | Just wondering, which country are you guys from? | 21:48 |
| dividediff[m] | Shout out to #canada:matrix.org | 21:48 |
| dividediff[m] | contingo: brb getting citation | 21:48 |
| Shock | <dividediff[m] "Techically speaking you could ju"> That's _very_ wrong: SARS-Cov-2 survives for 3-4 days on stainless steel and plastic and about 24 hours on cardboard | 21:48 |
| dantha11[m] | Denmark dkdkkdkd | 21:48 |
| GeDaMo | "We found that viable virus could be detected in aerosols up to 3 hours post aerosolization, up to 4 hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to 2-3 days on plastic and stainless steel." https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v1.full.pdf | 21:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 20:48 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Inghilterra misure di quarantena per i più a rischio entro 'settimane' → https://is.gd/b46B3a | 21:50 |
| RougeR | https://www.politico.eu/article/a-relapsed-soviets-guide-to-surviving-coronavirus-shortages-coronavirus-lockdown/ | 21:51 |
| Tobi[m] | dividediff: Germany | 21:51 |
| GeDaMo | dividediff[m]: Scotland | 21:52 |
| dividediff[m] | contingo: Shock , bad news, i my memory is shot and it's more like 3 days | 21:52 |
| dividediff[m] | Timvde: ""We found that viable virus could be detected in aerosols up to 3 hours post aerosolization, up to 4 hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to 2-3 days on plastic and stainless steel." https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v1.full.pdf" | 21:53 |
| dividediff[m] | So a shower is optimal ergh | 21:53 |
| dividediff[m] | GeDaMo: I heard scotland is doing bettr than england for corona? | 21:53 |
| GeDaMo | Well, smaller population for one thing | 21:54 |
| dividediff[m] | Tobi: Is it true that it's getting wild in germany? | 21:54 |
| Shock | dividediff: can you please edit your message? | 21:54 |
| GeDaMo | https://www.gov.scot/coronavirus-covid-19/ | 21:54 |
| Shock | dividediff: your numbers are correct, if you replace hrs with days :) | 21:54 |
| dividediff[m] | > <@freenode_twomoon:matrix.org> dividediff, should we run our clothes through the dryer and take a quick shower when we come back? | 21:54 |
| dividediff[m] | * redacted | 21:54 |
| dividediff[m] | Shock: editted. I think i replaced days with hrs in my head. | 21:55 |
| Tobi[m] | <dividediff[m] "Tobi: Is it true that it's getti"> Hm some cases, border lock down but we will see. I’m in Hamburg | 21:55 |
| Shock | dividediff: boy, do I wish the numbers you quoted were right... | 21:55 |
| dividediff[m] | So since this corona last like an entire fruit fly life, do i need to disinfect groceries exteriors like canned food? :( | 21:56 |
| Shock | <dividediff[m] "So since this corona last like a"> yes. with soap and water | 21:57 |
| astraliam[m] | At 20x morbidity of flu this is really bad, especially for old people. It's no wonder places are locking down that have high populations of old people. But is that strategy gonna work? Is this just death phobia? | 21:57 |
| astraliam[m] | I hope we can use this to make the global economy more sustainable, and not to impose more surveillance. | 21:57 |
| Shock | whatever food does not need refrigeration, I leave in the car for 3-4 days | 21:57 |
| dividediff[m] | Shock: What about things like our hair? Can the bacteria on our body not rock up the corona on our skin if someone sneezes on us? | 21:59 |
| dividediff[m] | Like over the course of a few hrs | 22:00 |
| Shock | dividediff: I don't know | 22:00 |
| Shock | but I don't think so | 22:00 |
| dividediff[m] | If we have to take showers evytime we go out, this is a bit dramatic, then i'm surely gonna just get infected | 22:01 |
| Shock | if you want to minimize risk, take a shower when you come home | 22:01 |
| Shock | but better not get sneezed on by other people :_ | 22:01 |
| Shock | * but better not get sneezed on by other people :) | 22:01 |
| dividediff[m] | ( i go in and out several times in a day, i have a small place and need to stretch ) | 22:02 |
| Shock | and ask people to keep the distance | 22:02 |
| Shock | we need to educate a lot of people | 22:02 |
| Shock | I asked a woman to stop touching lots of the food in the store that she wasn't buying | 22:03 |
| Shock | and she was a medical nurse | 22:03 |
| dividediff[m] | Good job, Did she give mad? | 22:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:51 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York governor wants Trump to mobilize army, NYC mayor calls outbreak 'war' → https://is.gd/Ro001B | 22:04 |
| Shock | no | 22:04 |
| dividediff[m] | even better job lol | 22:04 |
| Shock | I was polite and told her I was curious why she was behaving like that | 22:05 |
| dividediff[m] | Lets say the world threw together 1 trillion to cure/vaccinate corona, do you guys think that would be enough? | 22:05 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +235 cases (now 169491) 🔶 US: +244 cases (now 3621) 🔸 Andorra: +4 cases (now 5) 🔸 New South Wales, Australia: +22 cases (now 134) 🔸 Queensland, Australia: +15 cases (now 61) 🔸 South Australia, Australia: +1 cases (now 20) 🔸 Tasmania, Australia: +1 cases (now 6) 🔸 Victoria, Australia: +8 cases (now 57) 🔸 Brazil: +11 cases (now 162) 🔸 Canada: +62 cases (now 317) 🔸 China: +8 cases (now 81003), | 22:05 |
| dividediff[m] | To invent a cure** | 22:05 |
| Shock | dividediff: it is _very_ unlikely we will get a vaccine in less than 12 months | 22:06 |
| Shock | * dividediff: it is _very_ unlikely we will get a vaccine against coronavirus in less than 12 months | 22:06 |
| Shock | proper medical trials on people need to be done, and they take time | 22:06 |
| LjL | Timvde, i really didn't see so very much hoarding. more like, people rushing to the supermarket in the night as a knee-jerk panic reaction whenever they announced a new emergency law. the fact they kept changing the emergency law for like four days in a row didn't help, though. but aside from that, it's more like 1) things like hand sanitizer are always hard to find, but our pharmacy made some of their own so we bought that easily, while things like masks, | 22:08 |
| LjL | some people are wearing them, but i have no idea where they could get them, and 2) deliveries take a long time (or have become impossible) and there are long queues outside of supermarkets, but that's not because of hooarding, it's because they will let only a few people in at a time, because of the regulations | 22:08 |
| dividediff[m] | I would hope that with enough money, it could be sped up. Like i'm sure you could find some volunteers that would accept the huge risk of early human trial as long as they're paid x million or whatnot. Ppl sell kidneys whlie being alive for much less | 22:09 |
| Timvde | LjL: toilet paper, pasta and some canned food has been pretty much unavailable since a few days | 22:09 |
| dividediff[m] | Shock: I would hope that with enough money, it could be sped up. Like i'm sure you could find some volunteers that would accept the huge risk of early human trial as long as they're paid x million or whatnot. Ppl sell kidneys whlie being alive for much less | 22:10 |
| LjL | Timvde, i'm not sure i understand why people are fixating so much on toilet paper in particular. i think it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. somehow a core of people started thinking they'd run out, then the word got out, now everyone is thinking that. | 22:10 |
| forestfox | tp goes fast | 22:10 |
| jcay | I'd worry about the the toilet paper the last, tbh | 22:11 |
| LjL | anyway i'm in a big city, supplies can still be found for most things... but as they start closing down supermarkets every time they find a case there... we'll see | 22:11 |
| hot_kush[m] | It was announced this afternoon in the Netherlands that all the coffeeshops were to close at 18:00. There were massive lines all over the country. | 22:11 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: a coworkers said that's why he bought toliet paper. He said he was low anyway. I think it's partially like a trend to buy tp right now | 22:11 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: Is public transit still open? | 22:12 |
| Timvde | jcay: yea, sure, but it's actually pretty much time to buy another pack | 22:12 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], public transit is still open but the latest version of the emergency law allows regions to reduce it progressively, to a bare minimum. also they have stopped night trains because people were using them to leave the region | 22:13 |
| Timvde | Just one, because we can easily go over a month with it | 22:13 |
| jcay | Timvde: seroiusly? for me one roll is like a a few weeks at least and I got a few and even if I ran out, i'd do just fine, as my bathroom has a sink | 22:14 |
| dividediff[m] | jcay: i believe some regions have sinks in different rooms then toliets. | 22:14 |
| Timvde | jcay: household of four | 22:14 |
| dividediff[m] | I think i'm a 1 roll a week human | 22:15 |
| Timvde | But a few weeks for one roll for 1 person sounds like quite long to me | 22:15 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], i saw that in a house in france. seemed rather unideal. | 22:15 |
| Timvde | 1 roll a week sounds reasonable | 22:15 |
| LjL | anyway we have bidets in italy, so that may contribute to why the toilet paper craze is possibly less of a craze here, fwiw. | 22:15 |
| jcay | :) | 22:15 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: I think it's probably partially based on superstition/culture. A bidget sounds cool in theory, nvr used 1 | 22:16 |
| jcay | Timvde: 4x harder then | 22:16 |
| ubLIX | The average run time of Dr Campbell's videos is tending toward 30 mins. Do we have any ML/AGI gurus who could knock up a daemon to listen to his vids and condense them to 60 seconds? | 22:17 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: Dr who? | 22:17 |
| ubLIX | it's nice to have a daily summary after being away from the news all day, but damn, most of his videos don't need to be half an hour long | 22:17 |
| hot_kush[m] | Dr Campbell YouTube Channel: | 22:18 |
| hot_kush[m] | https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF9IOB2TExg3QIBupFtBDxg | 22:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:12 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Eamon Javers su Twitter: "Wow: Fed cuts rates to zero, launches $700 billion quantitative easing program from @CNBC https://t.co/QKLgmkHiTO" → https://is.gd/ohnhLj | 22:18 |
| LjL | ubLIX, day's summary: no good news, expected exponentially growing amount of bad news | 22:18 |
| dividediff[m] | "PSA: Clorox & Lysol wipes, keep surface wet for 4 minutes to disinfect viruses." | 22:18 |
| ubLIX | Do we have any ML/AGI gurus who could knock up a daemon that expands a little on Ljl's summary? | 22:21 |
| LjL | ubLIX, if everyone in this channel pays you 10 cents maybe you can do it and get 20 euro? | 22:21 |
| tinwhiskers | ubLIX: what are you wanting to see? | 22:22 |
| ubLIX | I shall call my blog "Much More Than You Wanted to Know About Scotland's Progress/Descent" | 22:22 |
| ubLIX | tinwhiskers: I'm just having a silly moment | 22:22 |
| tinwhiskers | Glad to hear that | 22:23 |
| dividediff[m] | "COVID-19 cases in Ottawa double in one day to 10" | 22:23 |
| dividediff[m] | "Ottawa health officials are now asking for events of all sizes to be cancelled." | 22:23 |
| dividediff[m] | "The province of Quebec has ordered the closing of gyms, bars, theatres, pools and ski hills " | 22:23 |
| dividediff[m] | "If your income is reduced as a consequence of the pandemic, apply for E.I!!!" | 22:23 |
| LjL | ubLIX, everyone already has to stand my translating of the italian press conferences, adding scotland would just be cruel and unusual | 22:23 |
| LjL | i wanted to watch a non-COVID-related show on RAI1 but the web tv thing denies me access to that channel. so instead i get to watch doom&gloom on RAI2. yay. | 22:24 |
| tinwhiskers | I didn't think it was possible to translate Scottish into something others can understand | 22:24 |
| jcay | just use youtube or netflix, LjL | 22:24 |
| ubLIX | ^ what tinwhiskers said | 22:25 |
| ubLIX | LjL's talents have to stop somewhere | 22:25 |
| dividediff[m] | Guys, i figured out what to do about disinfecting phones, keep them in ziplocks when out of the home, my phones still registers taps | 22:26 |
| bvlvi[m] | I am a mod at Wuhan_flu discord, we got nuked. And our two back ups | 22:27 |
| tinwhiskers | dividediff[m]: yeah that's what I do on the kayak. They work fine except for photos. | 22:27 |
| dividediff[m] | tinwhiskers: Ziplocks are see thru tho? | 22:27 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], lenses definitely don't like distortion like that | 22:27 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah, fairly see-through | 22:28 |
| tinwhiskers | Not photo-clarity see-through | 22:28 |
| LjL | bvlvi[m], yeah well i got banned from r/italy for complaining they had nuked a post about the emergency law, and i also had a mystery disappearance from twitter when i talked about it... proprietary media are a great thing huh? | 22:28 |
| dividediff[m] | bvlvi: whats the story? Also riot>discord :p | 22:29 |
| bvlvi[m] | The admins are building a riot RightNow | 22:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:29 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Fed slashes rates, New York governor wants Trump to mobilize the military: The Federal Reserve said, "The coronavirus outbreak has harmed communities and disrupted economic activity in many countries, including the United States." → https://is.gd/Ro001B | 22:32 |
| bvlvi[m] | I don't see like sub sections | 22:32 |
| dividediff[m] | Evyone make sure yall get enuff vitamin D! | 22:37 |
| ubLIX | tinwhiskers: being more precise, though, what I would wish for is a source that well circumscribes unknown unknowns. Obviously such a source would vary per person, and Campbell's output can go some way in this direction, at the cost of time and seeing much already familiar material. I suppose I want a well referenced news aggregator of global reach and very high S/N | 22:40 |
| romare | %data turkey | 22:40 |
| Brainstorm | romare: In all areas, Turkey, there are 18 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 15, 21:32Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 22:40 |
| romare | :( | 22:40 |
| bvlvi[m] | dividediff: yep and zinc, and vit C, and DO NOT use anti information drugs like ibuprofen and stay away from suger. | 22:40 |
| LjL | anti information, lol | 22:41 |
| GeDaMo | Stay away from sugar? :| | 22:41 |
| LjL | how about we don't give medical advice in those terms please? zinc and vitamin C can be toxic in excess of standard doses, let's not just tell people what to do lest they ingest a whole box of zinc & C | 22:41 |
| LjL | (really it doesn't take a whole box) | 22:41 |
| X-Scale | > #CoronaVirus epidemic in UK will last until next spring and could lead to 7.9m people being hospitalised - Public Health England briefing for senior NHS officials obtained by Guardian ,Suggests as many as 80% of Britons becoming infected with the virus over that time | 22:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:35 UTC: New York City schools will close this week due to coronavirus concerns: All public schools in Westchester, Long Island and NYC will close this week in a major effort to combat the spread of the coronavirus, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Sunday. → https://is.gd/1hwjXK | 22:46 |
| LjL | looks like that refers to https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/15/uk-coronavirus-crisis-to-last-until-spring-2021-and-could-see-79m-hospitalised | 22:46 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | what's the estimated total death toll before this is all over? | 22:48 |
| dividediff[m] | bvlvi: Why not NSAIDs? | 22:48 |
| dividediff[m] | v0idkr4ft: How do i cntrl F on riot? I posted math here earlier tdy | 22:49 |
| darsie | v0idkr4ft[m]: There are estimates 50% ish ppl might get it in total, eventually. Now take 2% ish of that might die. | 22:49 |
| GeDaMo | dividediff[m]: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammatory-drugs-may-aggravate-coronavirus-infection | 22:49 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | <dividediff[m] "v0idkr4ft: How do i cntrl F on r"> not sure | 22:50 |
| dividediff[m] | I have heard that the death rate is 3.4% and at minimum it’s supposed to spread to 30% of ppl. There r 7 billion people on earth so running the math: | 22:50 |
| dividediff[m] | 71,400,000 deaths Global by the time Corona is finished | 22:50 |
| darsie | v0idkr4ft[m]: South Korea or Taiwan control it much better than average, though. We might get vaccines/treatments at some time, too. | 22:50 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | damn | 22:50 |
| GeDaMo | You can't trust the current death rate, it's based on variable amounts of testing | 22:51 |
| dividediff[m] | italy has a 7% fatality rate atm (riot user said earlier tdy) | 22:51 |
| dividediff[m] | usa's death was was 5% i think a few days ago | 22:51 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: I'm getting the general impression that CFR should only be greater than 1% when health services are overwhelmed (retrospectively) | 22:52 |
| darsie | 5% of confirmed cases, not actual cases. | 22:52 |
| darsie | I guess. | 22:52 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], so does that huge variability in death rate not make you suspect that maybe there is a problem in measuring it, and you cannot just assume 3.4% is the real rate? | 22:52 |
| dividediff[m] | On my riot interface, there is a magnifying class and clicking it opened a search interface | 22:52 |
| RougeR | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hks6Nq7g6P4 | 22:52 |
| darsie | Actual cases could be like 10 x confirmed cases. | 22:53 |
| corecode_ | they could | 22:53 |
| corecode_ | we don't know tho | 22:53 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: I was quoting what i said earlier, but yes the death rate is prob not 3.4% | 22:53 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: CFR? | 22:53 |
| LjL | case fatality rate | 22:53 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: However, death rate is prob not gonna be more than 10% globally based on the numbers i've seen | 22:54 |
| darsie | How many ppl died in WW2? | 22:54 |
| LjL | ubLIX, so it's sort of safe to assume CFR is 5% minus an epsilon of lucky patients? ;( | 22:54 |
| darsie | World War II was the deadliest conflict in human history, marked by 70 to 85 million fatalities, most of whom were civilians in the Soviet Union and China. | 22:54 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], 10% seems like a very high estimate. most prople already assume that 3.4% is an overestimate so the real rate could be lower, or much lower. it can go in both directions imo | 22:55 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | we have 162,000 confirmed cases, is that not a big enough number to make data predictions? like wtf | 22:55 |
| corecode_ | v0idkr4ft[m]: no | 22:55 |
| LjL | v0idkr4ft[m], ability to make predictions doesn't depend on how big a number you have, it depends on what you know about that numbers | 22:55 |
| corecode_ | v0idkr4ft[m]: because the data is not randomly sampled | 22:55 |
| darsie | v0idkr4ft[m]: isolation, health care capacity, treatment/vaccine can make a big difference. | 22:56 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: for example, in this paper (see page 5) an attempt is made to get at a realistic CFR that incorporates asymptomatic and mild cases: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.04.20031104v1 | 22:56 |
| corecode_ | v0idkr4ft[m]: we don't know how many are positive but not tested | 22:56 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | <corecode_ "v0idkr4ft: we don't know how man"> data is based on confirmed cases | 22:56 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: ok, it shows 1.6% overall, but that is much less than 3.4% and this is an early attempt | 22:57 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: yea, so i'm thinking worst possible case, 70% of humans infected (from my earlier cite) and 10% death rate globally | 22:57 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], if anything of *those* proportions happens then i think you also need to account for many deaths due to many other caused created by the collapse of infrastructure and services in general | 22:57 |
| LjL | likely thriving of other infections, too | 22:58 |
| yuriwho | IMO the death rate in any area will be correlated with respiratory & cardiac support resources at hospitals relative to severe cases at said hospital so 0.9% (SK)-10% (% severe) range | 22:59 |
| corecode_ | v0idkr4ft[m]: yes, that's why the data is biased | 22:59 |
| dividediff[m] | Running like best case scenario math: 30%*0.1%(death rate)*7000000000 = 2,100,000 | 22:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:55 UTC: New York City schools will close this week to help contain the coronavirus outbreak: All public schools in Westchester, Long Island and NYC will close this week in a major effort to combat the spread of the coronavirus, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo said on Sunday. → https://is.gd/1hwjXK | 23:00 |
| corecode_ | where do these numbers come from? | 23:00 |
| dividediff[m] | Worst case: 30%0.17000000000 = 210,000,000 | 23:00 |
| LjL | yuriwho, often the "critical" patients are quoted at 5-6%, but i did have the impression you can't assume the "severe" patients get out of it just fine even if hospitals are gone | 23:00 |
| yuriwho | I think the definition of severe is requiring respiratory support | 23:01 |
| dividediff[m] | Worst case: 30%x0.1x7000000000 = 210,000,00 deaths | 23:01 |
| GeDaMo | On https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ the death percentage is starting to creep up but that may be due to reduced testing | 23:01 |
| corecode_ | dividediff[m]: worst case 100% ded | 23:01 |
| yuriwho | also depends on the age demographics in any country | 23:02 |
| corecode_ | i invite people to modify my model to include age brackets | 23:03 |
| dividediff[m] | corecode_: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-between-30-and-70-per-cent-of-canadians-could-be-infected-with/ | 23:03 |
| dividediff[m] | I'm making assuming this is similar for other countries | 23:03 |
| dividediff[m] | Death rate estimate vary a good deal source to source | 23:03 |
| LjL | yuriwho, i am seriously regretting not buying an oxygen concentrator when those were still for sale, however chinese and dodgy | 23:03 |
| dividediff[m] | corecode_: Well it will nvr kill 100% of ppl | 23:03 |
| corecode_ | booo | 23:03 |
| dividediff[m] | I guess that the one thing we know for sure | 23:03 |
| corecode_ | then it will never win | 23:04 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | <LjL "yuriwho, i am seriously regretti"> might want a lung pump too, to drain the fluid... | 23:04 |
| LjL | v0idkr4ft[m], i mean, ideally, i might want an ICU bed and competent doctors | 23:04 |
| LjL | but just because i can't get everything does it mean i should give up on everything? | 23:04 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | <LjL "v0idkr4ft, i mean, ideally, i mi"> Tru, makes me wonder if it better to get now before hospitals at capacity | 23:04 |
| GeDaMo | I have seen a design for a DIY ventilator | 23:05 |
| dividediff[m] | v0idkr4ft: In all srsness, i thinking getting purposefully sick could be a genuine tactic to increase survival, esp like 1 month ago in not china | 23:05 |
| yuriwho | https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/pandemic-ventilator-coronvirus-hospitals-1.5493830 | 23:06 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | <dividediff[m] "v0idkr4ft: In all srsness, i thi"> but if that ever became a meme thought it would be 10x worse of a flood the the tp and water disapearing. | 23:06 |
| yuriwho | %title | 23:07 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: From www.cbc.ca: 'Pandemic ventilator' could offer solution in potential 'worst case' coronavirus scenario | CBC News | 23:07 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | I'm kinda suprised India has been relativly untouched or at least untested so far. I'd think they'd be super vulnerable with the population density | 23:08 |
| dividediff[m] | v0idkr4ft: 1 month ago is key | 23:08 |
| dividediff[m] | v0idkr4ft: I bet it's due to insufficient testing. | 23:08 |
| corecode_ | maybe there is a temperature component | 23:09 |
| dividediff[m] | Like i think n korea is at 0% infection rate bc... well... you know | 23:09 |
| corecode_ | because communication block? | 23:09 |
| dividediff[m] | corecode_: i would suspect a vitamin d component | 23:09 |
| corecode_ | i'll buy that | 23:09 |
| yuriwho | avoid taking NSAIDS like aspirin & ibuprofin(advil,motrin etc.) | 23:09 |
| yuriwho | %title | 23:09 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: Couldn't load page from www.cbc.ca (416: Requested Range Not Satisfiable). | 23:09 |
| dividediff[m] | corecode_: north kore has a hard hard time with finances, so paying for tests would be difficult | 23:09 |
| corecode_ | fair | 23:10 |
| corecode_ | they don't need tests tho | 23:10 |
| yuriwho | %title https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammatory-drugs-may-aggravate-coronavirus-infection | 23:10 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: From www.theguardian.com: Anti-inflammatories may aggravate Covid-19, France advises | World news | The Guardian | 23:10 |
| corecode_ | i mean, you need them for testing | 23:10 |
| dividediff[m] | GeDaMo: ty | 23:10 |
| dividediff[m] | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/14/anti-inflammatory-drugs-may-aggravate-coronavirus-infection | 23:10 |
| corecode_ | always the same article | 23:10 |
| corecode_ | stop taking ibuprofen when you have covid | 23:10 |
| dividediff[m] | pasted wrong thing | 23:11 |
| cast4d | is aspirin ok? | 23:12 |
| dividediff[m] | I thought vaccines are made from radiating a virus in like UV then injecting that into ppl. It doesn't sound that hard to make one? | 23:12 |
| corecode_ | no idea | 23:12 |
| corecode_ | isn't aspirin outdated? | 23:12 |
| cast4d | in what way? | 23:12 |
| corecode_ | dividediff[m]: will it work? will they be dead enough? | 23:12 |
| dividediff[m] | cast4d: "Aspirin is a nonsteroidal anti-inflammatory drug (NSAID) and works similarly to other NSAIDs but also suppresses the normal functioning of platelets.[5]" | 23:13 |
| corecode_ | cast4d: kills blood clotting factors or something like it | 23:13 |
| Timvde | dividediff[m]: by deactivating the virus, yes. I'm not sure if UV is the common way of doing that. | 23:13 |
| Timvde | Might be for some sort of virus, might not work for others | 23:13 |
| Timvde | And heavy testing is needed to ensure that the vaccine will actually not infect you | 23:13 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], there are many types of vaccines that work for different diseases and what you described is a very simplified depiction of what's needed to develop a vaccine... please don't trivialize the work of people who spend years researching these things :\ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine#Types | 23:13 |
| corecode_ | or make it worse | 23:14 |
| yuriwho | read this to understand vaccines & antibody therapies https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/03/09/covid-19-biologic-therapies-reviewed | 23:14 |
| dividediff[m] | Timvde: yea making sure it's actually destroyed, but not like ground into molecular dust. Like for someone not in virology, it sounds easier than say the moon landing | 23:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:09 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Fed slashes rates, New York governor wants Trump to mobilize the military: The Federal Reserve said, "The coronavirus outbreak has harmed communities and disrupted economic activity in many countries, including the United States." → https://is.gd/Ro001B | 23:14 |
| corecode_ | i'd like to learn how antibody tests work | 23:14 |
| dividediff[m] | Anyone have any theories on y a sars vaccine was nvr maade? | 23:16 |
| Timvde | dividediff[m]: It probably is easier than the moon landing. But only slightly :) | 23:17 |
| dividediff[m] | About sars: "A small number of cats and dogs tested positive for the virus during the outbreak. However these animals did not transmit the virus to other animals of the same species or to humans.[54][55]" | 23:17 |
| yuriwho | disease was eliminated before pahse III trials could get done | 23:17 |
| yuriwho | it's typically 10 years to develop a new vaccine | 23:18 |
| dividediff[m] | yuriwho: huh, so they were working on the vaccine then? I never heard about that pt | 23:18 |
| yuriwho | vaccine research is going full steam ahead, even skipping animal testing | 23:19 |
| dividediff[m] | Sars might come back one day; | 23:19 |
| dividediff[m] | "The authors are quoted as stating that "another deadly outbreak of SARS could emerge at any time. As they point out, the cave where they discovered their strain is only a kilometre from the nearest village."[3]" | 23:19 |
| dividediff[m] | but i guess it'd be significantly mutated from the 2004 form | 23:19 |
| yuriwho | you cant test a vaccine in humans if there are not a lot of humans being exposed to a disease vector | 23:20 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], like sort of a SARS-COV-2 kind of virus? | 23:20 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: I thought the 2020 coronavirus didn't come out of a bat cave> | 23:21 |
| LjL | well it's still suspected to be derived from a bat virus afaik. not sure on cave details | 23:22 |
| dividediff[m] | "It is believed that the virus possibly originated in horseshoe bats (genus Rhinolophus).[147]" | 23:24 |
| yuriwho | it is thought to have gone from bats > pangolins > humans | 23:24 |
| dividediff[m] | Things that come out of bat caves; corona virus 2004, corona 2020, batman, bed bugs, bats | 23:24 |
| corecode_ | bed bugs come from bat caves? | 23:25 |
| dividediff[m] | I don't know the details properly, but: bat bugs are a thing, they look like bed bugs and live in caves. It is thought that humans shared the same caves with those bats and that the bed bugs evolved for human predation | 23:26 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | guano no bueno | 23:26 |
| dividediff[m] | yuriwho: Any idea how it went from the pokemon animal to ppl? | 23:27 |
| yuriwho | afk dinner | 23:27 |
| dividediff[m] | Like ive heard hiv may have been from ppl having sex w some monkey | 23:27 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | pango soup | 23:27 |
| dividediff[m] | v0idkr4ft: legit? | 23:27 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | no sauce | 23:28 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | I only heard it was from bat soup on joe rogan or something | 23:28 |
| X-Scale | Speaking of HIV. Do you think such a virus could ever mutate to be transmited by air ? | 23:29 |
| dividediff[m] | Yes | 23:29 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | hiv too big? | 23:29 |
| the_owls_are_not | Allegedly it is the condition at Chinese wet markets. | 23:29 |
| dividediff[m] | X-Scale: but i think the odds are smaller than hiv cell | 23:29 |
| dividediff[m] | However mosquito transmission, that seems a lot more probable | 23:30 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | also doesn't live in air long at all | 23:30 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | covid does | 23:30 |
| dividediff[m] | Anyone know why mosquitos can't transmit most viruses? | 23:31 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | zika | 23:32 |
| dividediff[m] | most** | 23:32 |
| the_owls_are_not | It’s because they don’t actually share the blood. They sick blood and the. Share Saliva. | 23:34 |
| dividediff[m] | "The HIV virus gets digested in the mosquito's gut " | 23:34 |
| darsie | You can abbreviate HIV virus as HIVV ;). | 23:35 |
| darsie | hi Kaylah | 23:37 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | idk but i think it might be like virus cant live outside body of host for x time, mosquito not being a proper host cant sustain virus.. I'm more scared of lymes to be honest. damn ticks everywhere | 23:37 |
| Kaylah | . | 23:37 |
| dividediff[m] | What preys on viruses? | 23:38 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | Norton | 23:39 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | John McAffee? | 23:39 |
| dividediff[m] | what preys on biological viruses | 23:39 |
| X-Scale | Is it true that most of our DNA is made up of DNA fragments of past viruses we were able to survive against ? | 23:41 |
| LjL | probably not | 23:41 |
| LjL | *part* of our DNA, yes | 23:41 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], what's really there to prey on? | 23:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:39 UTC: (news): Trump administration says 'all options on the table' including suspension of domestic air travel to curb coronavirus → https://is.gd/kC0nFu | 23:42 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | i mean 80% of the cells that make up your biome are alien | 23:42 |
| LjL | what | 23:42 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | or foreign dna | 23:42 |
| LjL | well that's different from the composition of your own DNA though | 23:43 |
| LjL | like, something else entirely | 23:43 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: i'm brain storming possible solutions | 23:43 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | paul stammets been researdching antiviral mushrooms | 23:43 |
| balaa[m] | <X-Scale "Is it true that most of our DNA "> Not most of it. Some of it | 23:44 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | that mycelieal network. course nature is overloaded, too many humans, mama cullen the herd | 23:44 |
| balaa[m] | <dividediff[m] "what preys on biological viruses"> The media | 23:44 |
| Kaylah | lol | 23:45 |
| dividediff[m] | balaa: v0idkr4ft dad, i don't want to hear your jokes right now, i'm busy. lol | 23:45 |
| BravoEchoNovembe | %data Germany | 23:47 |
| Brainstorm | BravoEchoNovembe: In all areas, Germany, there are 5813 cases, 11 deaths (0.2% of cases), 46 recoveries as of March 15, 22:31Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 23:47 |
| dividediff[m] | Just wondering, Why is there an italian bot in an english page? | 23:48 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | %data Italy | 23:49 |
| Brainstorm | v0idkr4ft[m]: In all areas, Italy, there are 24747 cases, 1809 deaths (7.3% of cases), 2335 recoveries as of March 15, 22:31Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 23:49 |
| dividediff[m] | "This may sound bizarre, but if mosquitos are capable of carrying and spreading disease, could we somehow convert them to carriers of immunity instead?" | 23:50 |
| LjL | %tr La degenza in reparto di ricovero è riportataper 1.755 casi (12.6%dei casi totali);di questi 249 (14%)risultano ricoveratiin terapia intensiva(età mediana 66anni (0-18anni: 0%;19-50anni:11,9%; 51-70anni:51,2%;>70anni:36,9%) | 23:53 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: The hospitalization in the hospitalization ward is reported for 1,755 cases (12.6% of the total cases); of these 249 (14%) are admitted to intensive care (median age 66 years (0-18 years: 0%; 19-50 years: 11.9%; 51-70anni: 51.2%;> 70 years: 36.9%) (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 23:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:50 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Fed slashes rates, New York governor wants Trump to mobilize the military: The Federal Reserve said, "The coronavirus outbreak has harmed communities and disrupted economic activity in many countries, including the United States." → https://is.gd/Ro001B | 23:56 |
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