| pagetelegram | heirsay | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | Timvde, possibly, but icon looks different | 00:00 |
| Timvde | pagetelegram: All viruses are able to mutate, I'd think | 00:00 |
| LjL | pagetelegram, anything with RNA or DNA has the ability to mutate | 00:00 |
| pagetelegram | I have read and listening to too many sources; can't recall where I heard that from | 00:00 |
| xrogaan | Younger folks seems to not die from it, but it may also be because they're being followed by the health care system. | 00:00 |
| LjL | RNA makes it easier than DNA, fwiw | 00:00 |
| xrogaan | A pneumonia is a pneumonia, anybody can die from that stuff. | 00:01 |
| dividediff[m] | pagetelegram: mutate yes - it prob came from another animal and mutated to fit humans | 00:01 |
| dividediff[m] | xrogaan: Folloed by health care system? | 00:01 |
| LjL | xrogaan, the virus doesn't always cause a (clinical) pneumonia, thankfully, especially in younger people. BUT there is at least the fact that more than half of the ICU patients in the NL are under 50 years of age so far | 00:01 |
| pagetelegram | Trying to understand that 65 page patent on the corona virus; that was patented in 2018. What is the relation to that patent and what's going on now. | 00:01 |
| Timvde | pagetelegram: A patent on a virus? | 00:02 |
| Timvde | Also keep in mind that coronaviruses are a known _family_ of viruses | 00:02 |
| dividediff[m] | Experts are unsure why some recovered patients appear to become reinfected. (Reuters) | 00:02 |
| dividediff[m] | In confirmed cases in Japan and China, some recovered patients have again tested positive for COVID-19 but were not contagious. Experts are uncertain whether these are new infections. People could become reinfected because they didn't build up enough antibodies while they were infected the first time, but it's also possible that the virus could lie dormant and symptoms could reappear again later. | 00:02 |
| LjL | Timvde, it's this guy https://git.aventer.biz/AVENTER/ts-matrix-dimension/src/commit/eed4e085b51461d45e10554c5e0e2afc0ddfacc8/config/integrations/rssbot.yaml | 00:02 |
| LjL | Timvde, wherever that is | 00:02 |
| pagetelegram | us 10130701 B2 | 00:03 |
| dividediff[m] | If the average infected patient spreads the virus to 2.2 others, does that mean the rø is 2.2? | 00:03 |
| pagetelegram | UK company that researches infectious diseases | 00:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:58 UTC: (news): Coronavirus has now spread to all 50 states, US death toll passes 100 — from WHO at 22:58: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/32t2uK | 00:04 |
| xrogaan | dividediff[m]: "supported by" | 00:05 |
| dividediff[m] | Searching around, reinfection rate seems to be very low, i'd wager >1% | 00:05 |
| pagetelegram | Also announced is Medicaid and Medicare now covers telehealth methods. | 00:06 |
| dividediff[m] | xrogaan: supported by? | 00:06 |
| xrogaan | health care | 00:06 |
| pagetelegram | CMS press release with the billing codes | 00:06 |
| xrogaan | I'm not constantly on this IRC windows, so my answer lags a bit. | 00:07 |
| dividediff[m] | "asymptomatic people have never been the major driver of epidemics," | 00:07 |
| Jigsy | I wonder how people coped during the Black Death. | 00:07 |
| xrogaan | "reinfected" might also means they never did a full recovery. | 00:08 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +117 cases (now 198513), +4 deaths (now 7971) 🔶 Washington, US: +108 cases (now 1014), +3 deaths (now 53) 🔶 California, US: +108 cases (now 698), +1 deaths (now 12) 🔸 Algeria: +1 cases (now 61) 🔸 Andorra: +23 cases (now 39) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +6 cases (now 34) 🔸 Bahrain: +7 recoveries (now 88) 🔸 Bolivia: +1 cases (now 12) [... want %more?] | 00:08 |
| xrogaan | Jigsy: search "Dance Macabre", it'll give you an idea. | 00:08 |
| dividediff[m] | xrogaan: yea, "These results could also reflect issues with the current diagnostic test, which isn’t sensitive enough to always pick up low levels of virus in an infected person. " | 00:08 |
| HeXiLeD | dividediff[m]: where did you get that info? url? "tested positive for COVID-19 but were not contagious" ? | 00:08 |
| Jigsy | I wonder what'll happen if COVID-19 is exactly like the common cold... | 00:08 |
| xrogaan | Jigsy: not the song. | 00:08 |
| Jigsy | Impossible to cure. | 00:09 |
| xrogaan | > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danse_Macabre | 00:09 |
| LjL | Timvde, i can just move everything to Brainstorm in theory, but the way Brainstorm's RSS thing works, it checks all feeds every 5 minutes (or whatever i set, but 5 minutes is already on the aggressive side), and it only posts the *first* item it finds from the *first* feed that has new items. this was intentional, to avoid excess spam, but now in a channel like this it does end up failing to post stuff that may matter... this is why i'm mixing it with the | 00:09 |
| LjL | other Matrix bot | 00:09 |
| dividediff[m] | Jigsy: the common cold is ~100s of viruses | 00:09 |
| Jigsy | Well, you know what I mean. | 00:09 |
| Timvde | LjL: How would using a second bot minimize spam? | 00:10 |
| LjL | Jigsy, there are already treatments that help with COVID-19. at least that appear to help, since rigorous studies have not been done yet. it may still be impossible to "cure" fully, and ultimately a vaccine will have to be made. but meanwhile, whatever makes chances better will be used | 00:10 |
| dividediff[m] | Jigsy: if it is, then it'd kill of a lot of ppl and humans would basically evoluve up some resistance | 00:10 |
| dividediff[m] | "But even the best efforts to screen airline passengers for COVID-19 infections will miss about half of cases" | 00:11 |
| python476 | do viruses compete ? | 00:11 |
| python476 | can I walk wet outside to catch all the mild cold viruses | 00:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:09 UTC: (news): Coronavirus has now spread to all 50 states and DC, US death toll passes 100 — from WHO at 23:09: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/32t2uK | 00:11 |
| python476 | to make my body unavailable for covid-19 | 00:11 |
| LjL | Timvde, it wouldn't, but in this channel some information like CDC updates should be posted, spam or not. but my bot's RSS module wasn't made for this channel and rest assured it wouldn't be a good idea for me to try rewriting it now | 00:11 |
| Jigsy | The cold mutates, so doubtful. | 00:11 |
| LjL | python476, i'm afraid that's quite unlikely :P | 00:12 |
| dividediff[m] | python476: follow up, could a bacteria infection out compete corona, then humans antibiotic the bacteria? | 00:12 |
| python476 | https://i.imgflip.com/psrez.jpg | 00:13 |
| oxalis | What’s new in disease land? I haven’t been on here to check since like Saturday. | 00:13 |
| python476 | dividediff[m]: follow up follow up, can I die before covid kills me ? | 00:13 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], maybe there is some special kind of meteor that could fall onto our planet that would destroy only COVID-19 but leave humanity unscathed | 00:13 |
| LjL | or maybe my sarcasm can outcompete the virus | 00:13 |
| Timvde | LjL: If that happens, I might even become religious | 00:13 |
| oxalis | I’ve been *ahem* traveling. | 00:13 |
| LjL | Timvde, amen, brother. | 00:13 |
| LjL | oxalis, nothing particularly good | 00:14 |
| Birosso | :p | 00:14 |
| LjL | i'm going to have an interim rule that bans memes | 00:14 |
| LjL | it's too easy to post images especially from Matrix | 00:14 |
| dividediff[m] | cracks fingers Is it meme time on the covid room? :p | 00:14 |
| LjL | i know i said i didn't want explicit rules, but i'm like "ignore all rules, including this one" —wikipedia | 00:15 |
| oxalis | LjL, so business as usual then. | 00:15 |
| Jigsy | Ever since this whole thing started, I keep singing "M-M-M-MY SHARONA." | 00:15 |
| dividediff[m] | Is there a corona virus room for memes? | 00:16 |
| LjL | oxalis, more like business as unusual. the US is spiking, many countries are enacting lockdowns, various parts of the US too... also the WHO are making their press releases over video calls now, maybe next they'll stop make them entirely, and humanity will have at least SOME relief | 00:16 |
| oxalis | I should probably have added /s to my statement | 00:16 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], i believe ##coronavirus-vox accepts some level of silliness, although i don't run it and you should probably get familiar with its own rules and not take my word for it | 00:16 |
| dTal | ##coronavirus-vox is silly central | 00:17 |
| oxalis | I’m at the Grand Canyon., now. It’s a damn ghost town | 00:17 |
| dTal | memes are especially welcome | 00:17 |
| dividediff[m] | to coronavox! | 00:18 |
| dividediff[m] | ##coronavirus-vox | 00:18 |
| oxalis | We were going to go to Southern California for spring break and diverted to the desert instead. | 00:18 |
| yuriwho | dTal: it serves it’s purpose to let people joke/rant etc | 00:19 |
| dividediff[m] | Im having trouble finding ##coronavirus-vox, is it matrix? | 00:19 |
| dTal | dividediff[m]: no, freenode? | 00:20 |
| oxalis | I’ve been social distancing in the desert on a fucking sand dune | 00:20 |
| yuriwho | I’m at my cottage on the edge of a provincial park out in the boonies | 00:21 |
| dividediff[m] | dTal: Not in freenode? | 00:21 |
| yuriwho | it’s on freenode | 00:22 |
| dividediff[m] | Oh the address is @freenode_dTal:matrix.org | 00:22 |
| dividediff[m] | freenode_dTal:matrix.org | 00:23 |
| dividediff[m] | * . | 00:23 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 Canada: +132 cases (now 597), +3 deaths (now 8) 🔸 Algeria: +1 cases (now 61) 🔸 Andorra: +23 cases (now 39) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +6 cases (now 34) 🔸 Bahrain: +7 recoveries (now 88) 🔸 Bolivia: +1 cases (now 12) 🔸 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +7 cases (now 34) 🔸 Brazil: +25 cases (now 346) 🔸 Manitoba, Canada: +1 cases (now 8) [... want %more?] | 00:23 |
| dividediff[m] | How do i link to rooms again? | 00:23 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], it's an IRC channel, so you have to use the IRC bridge. i believe it's going to be #freenode_##coronavirus-vox:matrix.org | 00:23 |
| LjL | please do keep in mind that a lot of people here are *not* using Matrix and a lot of this editing, image uploads, replies, etc show up real confusing on IRC | 00:24 |
| Jigsy | Matrix on IRC seems as annoying as that Microsoft Comic Chat client. | 00:24 |
| Jigsy | Where the user announces that they entered the channel. | 00:25 |
| dividediff[m] | What is irc? | 00:25 |
| LjL | Jigsy, well i've known of freenode channels that have had an endless war against away messages... not too different | 00:25 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], what is wikipedia? | 00:25 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], IRC means Internet Relay Chat, and it's a protocol for chatting that has existed since i believe the late '80s, and Matrix was basically created as a more modern version of it, in a sense. | 00:26 |
| LjL | freenode is currently the biggest IRC network, and this "Matrix room" also exists (and actually is primarily) a "freenode channel" | 00:26 |
| dividediff[m] | why not just use maxtrix? | 00:26 |
| Birrosso | LjL: Wait, what? I've never heard of Matrix before. | 00:26 |
| Jigsy | I've heard of Matrix. | 00:27 |
| dividediff[m] | Riot.im | 00:27 |
| Jigsy | Seems to focus on privacy or something. | 00:27 |
| Jigsy | The polar opposite of Discord. | 00:27 |
| yuriwho | here’s a scary new preprint about potentially functional virus mutations that may increase infectivity: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.15.991844v1.full.pdf | 00:27 |
| dividediff[m] | Jigsy: i believe it's focus is about interconnectivity | 00:27 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], everyone chooses what they want to use. Matrix decided to create bridges to IRC networks, and freenode accepted to have the Matrix bridge, but that really shouldn't make anyone feel entitled to tell others what to use. | 00:27 |
| Birrosso | LjL: What is it bridging IRC networks with? | 00:28 |
| Jigsy | Magic. | 00:28 |
| oxalis | Tragic. | 00:28 |
| Jigsy | IRC->[MAGIC]->Matrix. | 00:28 |
| LjL | Birrosso, when you pull an elastic band too far, eventually it breaks | 00:28 |
| xrogaan | dividediff[m]: because I need a browser for matrix, or some kind of client. | 00:28 |
| Birrosso | LjL: I don't understand. | 00:29 |
| dividediff[m] | Birrosso: i thinkkkk matrix is the bridge, riot is client | 00:29 |
| xrogaan | I have a client right here, and it's used to connect to IRC. PLenty enough for text chat. | 00:29 |
| LjL | xrogaan, well technically you need some kind of client for IRC, but, whether or not you like the clients that are available can certainly be a factor. | 00:29 |
| yuriwho | this is not ##matrix | 00:29 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], no, you are confused. Matrix is not a bridge. | 00:29 |
| dividediff[m] | xrogaan: irc doesn't need a client or browser? | 00:29 |
| Birrosso | LjL: I am confused too! WHAT IS THE ELASTIC BAND?! | 00:29 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], definitely not a browser | 00:29 |
| Birrosso | Is this some Italian expression that got lost in translation? | 00:30 |
| LjL | yuriwho is right though. can we just talk about COVID and cry in each other's arm (but 2m distant), and try to have Matrix and IRC live together without spamming one another? | 00:30 |
| xrogaan | Birrosso: go get an elastic band and pull on it as far as you can, use all your force. | 00:30 |
| LjL | Birrosso, tune your cello while staring at the strings. crank one string real hard. tell me about your eye afterward. | 00:31 |
| fructose | LjL: Any theories on the 7.9% number in Italy? | 00:31 |
| xrogaan | fructose: number of death by corona. | 00:31 |
| LjL | fructose, my current theory tends to lean on "because it's actually the death rate we should expect" | 00:31 |
| LjL | fructose, look at the number for Lombardy to make it better, though | 00:32 |
| LjL | %cases Lombardia | 00:32 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Lombardia, Italy, there are 16220 cases, 1640 deaths (10.1% of cases), 2485 recoveries as of March 17, 16:00Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lombardia for time series data. | 00:32 |
| DrJNo | https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca | 00:32 |
| DrJNo | Argues that the death rate goes up dramatically when the healthcare system gets overwhelmed | 00:33 |
| xrogaan | DrJNo: isn't that fact expected? | 00:33 |
| DrJNo | Sure, it's common sense | 00:34 |
| Birrosso | LjL: So everyone with an [m] next to their name is not using IRC? | 00:34 |
| LjL | fructose, to be fair, in the past couple of days, deaths have increased faster than cases... either because new cases are capped by the ability to test, or, with any luck, because the lockdown measures have started to work, but you'd only see that in deaths after a few days. anyway, the scary truth imo is that 1% may be roughly the death rate you should expect *if everyone is assisted properly in hospitals*, but if they can't be, then 5% is considered | 00:34 |
| LjL | critical, and another 5% of the "serious" 15-20% is likely to die with no assistance at all | 00:34 |
| LjL | Birrosso, correct | 00:34 |
| fructose | LjL: I've seen it attributed to the age of those affected, but can imagine other reasons | 00:34 |
| Birrosso | O.O | 00:34 |
| DrJNo | but it complicates the question of "what's the _true_ fatality rate?" | 00:34 |
| Birrosso | That's a lot of people. | 00:34 |
| LjL | fructose, i mean sure, the average age in italy being a lot higher than in china plays a role | 00:34 |
| yuriwho | death rates reflect the critical patient/critical care bed and staffing | 00:34 |
| DrJNo | the fatality rate will depend on how well you can manage the situation | 00:34 |
| Jigsy | Isn't Italy mostly old people? | 00:34 |
| Jigsy | Hm... | 00:35 |
| LjL | Jigsy, "mostly old people" is a bit of a strange way to put it | 00:35 |
| Jigsy | I wonder how Florida is put by this. | 00:35 |
| Jigsy | s/put/<better word>/ | 00:35 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy meant to say: I wonder how Florida is <better word> by this. | 00:35 |
| Jigsy | LjL: People in Italy seem to live long, though. | 00:35 |
| Jigsy | Or so I believe. | 00:35 |
| xrogaan | LjL: that is what happened in China, the amount of people outnumbered their testing capabilities and they started to burn corpses of those who didn't get the test. | 00:35 |
| Jigsy | Probably because of their diet. | 00:35 |
| DrJNo | When that article was written, the data seemed to suggest that when the system holds and isn't overwhelmed, the fatality rate is close to 1%, but when the healthcare system gets overwhelemed it goes up to 4%-5% | 00:36 |
| LjL | Jigsy, yes, second or third longest life expectancy after Japan and the like. of course, you can... expect this to change, now. | 00:36 |
| LjL | Jigsy, we also have low birth rates. so the average age definitely tends on older (oldest in the world after Japan, actually). but that means the average age is 45 whereas it's 36 in china (going from memory). now the *average* age being 45 is higher than most countries, but it does mean you'll find plenty of people under 45. | 00:37 |
| yuriwho | also please note that China has not returned to normal life yet 3.5 months after their outbreak started in Wuhan | 00:38 |
| LjL | DrJNo, that is likely, however, that is with China's age figures. so 5% would be already scary high, but when you translate that to Italy, even though the death rate *by age groups* is still lower than China (according to Italy's own CDC-kinda-thing, the ISS), the overall mortality is higher. and right now, i'd say in Lombardy the hospitals are *well* beyond capacity, although authorities downplay it a bit. | 00:38 |
| yuriwho | that that was with authoritarian social distancing and cell tracking etc | 00:39 |
| figuinhas | LjL | 00:39 |
| figuinhas | I think you mean the opposite | 00:39 |
| figuinhas | of what you just said | 00:39 |
| LjL | elaborate | 00:39 |
| LjL | because i don't think i do | 00:39 |
| figuinhas | LjL: " when you translate that to Italy, even though the death rate *by age groups* is still lower than China (according to Italy's own CDC-kinda-thing, the ISS), the overall mortality is higher", the death rate is higher... and the overall mortality is lower in Italy till now | 00:41 |
| xrogaan | figuinhas: numbers from China needs to be taken with the knowledge that they are incomplete. | 00:41 |
| figuinhas | the overall mortality will probably become higher than China in 3+ days | 00:41 |
| LjL | figuinhas, if you're making a distinction between mortality and case fatality, point taken, i meant case fatality all along | 00:42 |
| xrogaan | Not because the administration wanted to cheat, simply because the situation was so overwhelming. | 00:42 |
| LjL | however, i didn't mean the opposite of what i meant | 00:42 |
| HeXiLeD | figuinhas: how are things in portugal? | 00:42 |
| figuinhas | OK | 00:42 |
| figuinhas | I mean | 00:42 |
| figuinhas | A guy died | 00:42 |
| HeXiLeD | getting close to 500 cases... | 00:42 |
| LjL | xrogaan, it's the same with Italy though... you currently can't count on the new cases being *all* new cases, or even close, because only people who are in hospital in serioous conditions get tested anymore | 00:43 |
| HeXiLeD | well that was expected. | 00:43 |
| HeXiLeD | 80's | 00:43 |
| figuinhas | but we were making 100 test a day | 00:43 |
| figuinhas | and now 300+ | 00:43 |
| LjL | eh you should expect to ramp that up a fair bit | 00:43 |
| figuinhas | still a huge percentage of positive cases | 00:43 |
| HeXiLeD | figuinhas: ok that is better. how are those that were suspected ? | 00:43 |
| figuinhas | 4000+ | 00:44 |
| dividediff[m] | Assuming NO medicine, which one is do yall think is deadlier: corona or the black plague? | 00:44 |
| HeXiLeD | yah figuinhas. but tests ? | 00:44 |
| xrogaan | Jigsy: During the events of the black death, they dug pits, thew the dead, then poured pure lime onto the lot in order to kill everything. They sometimes did that with people still alive but showing symptoms of having the plague. | 00:44 |
| figuinhas | they are quarantined volunteerly | 00:44 |
| HeXiLeD | oki\ | 00:44 |
| xionbox[m] | xrogaan: sounds like a fun time... | 00:44 |
| figuinhas | I keep asking my self the question | 00:45 |
| figuinhas | when we lower the cases | 00:45 |
| figuinhas | if we do | 00:45 |
| figuinhas | I mean eventually we will | 00:45 |
| figuinhas | but as soon as you give more freedoms | 00:45 |
| figuinhas | cases will ramp up again | 00:45 |
| LjL | yes, that will be a problem | 00:46 |
| HeXiLeD | this virus is going to reset the whole world. it is going to give people the meaning of being humble | 00:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:32 UTC: Australia coronavirus live: hoarding is 'un-Australian' and must stop, Scott Morrison says – latest updates: Australians abroad warned to come home now as borders and airports close; new Covid-19 tests kits available but not yet in Australia. Follow all the latest news, live [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NewT2e | 00:46 |
| LjL | figuinhas, China is going to try "easing" the restrictions soon, i believe. we will see what happens there | 00:46 |
| dividediff[m] | xrogaan: whats with this lime thing? | 00:46 |
| LjL | oh god un-Australian... it's just un-everything, okay? don't hoard. you don't have to make the point that it's somehow un-<countryiean> | 00:46 |
| figuinhas | and one more thing | 00:46 |
| yuriwho | HeXiLeD: it’s a world changing event for sure | 00:47 |
| figuinhas | I believe you will all think I am wrong about this | 00:47 |
| figuinhas | shouldn't states try to get more income from taxes? | 00:47 |
| dividediff[m] | yuriwho: there will be movies about this yr for sure | 00:47 |
| LjL | figuinhas, that is not very compatible with lockdowns that restrict work activities | 00:48 |
| LjL | companies are already on their knees, and have to fire people or lower their wages | 00:48 |
| LjL | having to pay more taxes on top of that would be... problematic? | 00:48 |
| DrJNo | interestingly, the black plauge was pretty awesome for the people who survived: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/black-death-survivors-and-their-descendants-went-on-to-live-longer/ | 00:48 |
| figuinhas | I only hear Germany talks about nationalizing some companies | 00:48 |
| figuinhas | nothing else | 00:48 |
| figuinhas | heard* | 00:48 |
| xrogaan | dividediff[m]: desiccate everything, kind of like burning corpses | 00:49 |
| figuinhas | everyone else (countries), trying to support the small companies | 00:49 |
| DrJNo | "awesome" might not have been the best word choice, but here's another link: https://time.com/91315/the-medieval-black-death-made-you-healthier-if-you-survived/ | 00:49 |
| dividediff[m] | xrogaan: huh, would have thought wood and fire would have been teh eaiest way back yonder | 00:50 |
| figuinhas | shouldn't we in a war have more money in the state and less in the private sector? | 00:50 |
| figuinhas | so we can move people from selling food in restaurants to start working in high priority jobs? | 00:50 |
| figuinhas | we don't know how many time this is going to take | 00:51 |
| HeXiLeD | figuinhas: any money should from politicians and lawyers and banks | 00:52 |
| xrogaan | dividediff[m]: it's about the scale. Too many death to use wood. | 00:52 |
| HeXiLeD | tax those peopel | 00:52 |
| figuinhas | are we going to stay home, waiting for society to collapse by itself? | 00:52 |
| HeXiLeD | they can afford it | 00:52 |
| danielp3344 | figuinhas: yes | 00:52 |
| xrogaan | dividediff[m]: but they did use wood | 00:52 |
| danielp3344 | figuinhas: if society collapses maybe we can make a better one | 00:52 |
| dividediff[m] | Daniel Peterson: yes comrade | 00:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:49 UTC: (news): Coronavirus has now spread to all 50 states and DC, US death toll passes 100 — from WHO at 23:49: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/32t2uK | 00:53 |
| dividediff[m] | Do you irc ppl see me cheeky emoji reactions? | 00:54 |
| danielp3344 | dividediff: probably not | 00:55 |
| dividediff[m] | just know that it's comedy gold ha | 00:55 |
| danielp3344 | dividediff: I'm intrigued by them though | 00:56 |
| DrJNo | I see no emojis ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 00:56 |
| Jigsy | I have emojis nullrouted. | 00:56 |
| dividediff[m] | I sent some cheek russian flags basically | 00:56 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], i'd say that's one reason that makes me want to stay on IRC over using Matrix... definitely don't need to see any of that | 00:56 |
| ubLIX | how many people have their hands cracking up from all the washing? vote top 10 best moisturising creams? | 00:57 |
| HeXiLeD | dividediff[m]: depends. try | 00:57 |
| danielp3344 | lol | 00:57 |
| Jigsy | One soap actually does that to my hands. | 00:57 |
| danielp3344 | ubLIX: I'm a mechanic, so my hands are always dry and full of random dirt :P | 00:57 |
| Jigsy | Soft and caring my ass. | 00:57 |
| xrogaan | ubLIX: yeah, so, don't wash your hand *all the time* | 00:57 |
| LjL | ubLIX, get pure aloe gel, you can use it as a moistureizer *and* as a gel for making hand sanitizer | 00:57 |
| xrogaan | ubLIX: wash your hand when at risk | 00:57 |
| pingveno[m] | I wonder what the risk is from takeout food. | 00:58 |
| truths33k3r[m] | Daniel Peterson: hehe me too brother | 00:58 |
| xrogaan | so, you go outside in the city and back: wash your hands. | 00:58 |
| xrogaan | people come to your house, wash your hands when they leave. | 00:58 |
| ubLIX | xrogaan: i move from risk to no-risk 50 times a day | 00:58 |
| pingveno[m] | We've been doing home cooking, but the food we cook tends to be pretty light. | 00:58 |
| xrogaan | wear gloves? | 00:58 |
| Jigsy | I wonder if mail carriers are wearing gloves. | 00:58 |
| danielp3344 | truths33k3r: cool | 00:58 |
| danielp3344 | truths33k3r: you got any cool cars? | 00:58 |
| Jigsy | Person mails letter->[MAGIC]->Your house. | 00:58 |
| danielp3344 | Jigsy: naturally | 00:59 |
| Jigsy | At any point of that, it could remain. | 00:59 |
| truths33k3r[m] | Daniel Peterson: quite a few actually, you? | 00:59 |
| Jigsy | Be it during delivery or handled by the post office. | 00:59 |
| danielp3344 | truths33k3r: I'm also 17 :P | 00:59 |
| danielp3344 | I have two | 00:59 |
| danielp3344 | 88 firebird and 87 f150 | 00:59 |
| Jigsy | Toy cars? Remote controlled? | 00:59 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: meeee, vaseline if you don't have to touch anything soon | 00:59 |
| truths33k3r[m] | Daniel Peterson: rad. | 01:00 |
| danielp3344 | truths33k3r: Firebird is mid engine swap atm | 01:00 |
| danielp3344 | trying to find the last few bits cheaply so I can start driving it around | 01:00 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: some1 here recommended nappy cream, it's for baby rashes | 01:01 |
| ubLIX | i'll try the shops tomorrow, see what's left | 01:01 |
| figuinhas | ubLIX | 01:02 |
| figuinhas | are you american? | 01:02 |
| ubLIX | danielp3344: shouldn't you be wearing surgical gloves or barrier cream? | 01:02 |
| ubLIX | figuinhas: uk | 01:02 |
| figuinhas | do you guys already have control | 01:03 |
| figuinhas | of the amount of people that enter the supermarket? | 01:03 |
| ubLIX | i don't know, i haven't tried for a few days | 01:03 |
| xrogaan | Pfft | 01:03 |
| danielp3344 | ubLIX: for what? | 01:03 |
| ubLIX | danielp3344: you said you were a mechanic | 01:04 |
| danielp3344 | ubLIX: for dirt or COVID? | 01:04 |
| figuinhas | My best friend is working in Wales as a nurse | 01:04 |
| ubLIX | for all the crap that comes off cars | 01:04 |
| danielp3344 | ubLIX: ah | 01:04 |
| ubLIX | another 40 years of that and you're hands will be sandpaper | 01:04 |
| danielp3344 | Gloves are always either thick enough that I lose my dexterity or thin enough that they tear | 01:05 |
| figuinhas | I am a little affraid he is not taking the virus seriously | 01:05 |
| ubLIX | what choice do they have, figuinhas? just have to get on with it | 01:05 |
| danielp3344 | ubLIX: I think I'm OK with that | 01:05 |
| figuinhas | danielp3344, I kynda wish he was a little affraid | 01:05 |
| figuinhas | so he doesn't make mistakes | 01:06 |
| ubLIX | i'm pretty sure he is | 01:06 |
| figuinhas | if he is, he is hiding well | 01:07 |
| random3993 | any guesses as to china's true death toll? | 01:07 |
| truths33k3r[m] | 100k or so? hard to tell ccp stopped numbers a while ago | 01:07 |
| random3993 | yeah you would think they cured the virus looking at their # | 01:08 |
| random3993 | they add a few deaths and 10, 20 cases per day but it seems fake | 01:08 |
| truths33k3r[m] | they are acting like they did, no way it just stopped though | 01:08 |
| truths33k3r[m] | its mathematically impossibiru | 01:08 |
| figuinhas | yeaI think it is pretty accurate, the late numbers | 01:09 |
| figuinhas | the ones from the beginning of the outbreak | 01:09 |
| figuinhas | don't seem so | 01:09 |
| nt80 | for how much time the virus remains on the surface? | 01:09 |
| figuinhas | but so don't do the european and american numbers | 01:09 |
| nt80 | there was some info that it's 10 days | 01:09 |
| truths33k3r[m] | studies showed 4 hours on copper, 24 hours on stainless | 01:10 |
| figuinhas | because we just have no idea | 01:10 |
| truths33k3r[m] | yeah who knows really | 01:10 |
| truths33k3r[m] | the lack of data during this whole thing is disconcerting | 01:10 |
| figuinhas | now, that we are testing people, the numbers will start to look real | 01:11 |
| random3993 | is there any real news coming out of china? like i don't understand their situation at all. has it returned to normal? people going to work? | 01:11 |
| figuinhas | well | 01:11 |
| figuinhas | in Macao they are turning back | 01:11 |
| figuinhas | they had zero cases | 01:11 |
| figuinhas | now I think they have 3 imported cases | 01:11 |
| figuinhas | one of which from Portugal | 01:12 |
| figuinhas | from what I have seeen | 01:12 |
| figuinhas | as it took so long from the disease to spread in the rest of the world | 01:12 |
| figuinhas | the numbers actually seem quite accurate | 01:13 |
| figuinhas | there were so many chineses travelling | 01:13 |
| figuinhas | and the disease took so long to spread | 01:13 |
| figuinhas | comparing how it is spreading right now | 01:13 |
| figuinhas | I mean to spread outside of China | 01:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:09 UTC: Australia coronavirus live: hoarding is 'un-Australian' and must stop, Scott Morrison says – latest updates: Australians abroad warned to come home now as borders and airports close; new Covid-19 tests kits available but not yet in Australia. Follow all the latest news, live [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NewT2e | 01:14 |
| random3993 | i wonder will this taper off in the summer | 01:16 |
| figuinhas | also, all China helped Wuhan | 01:16 |
| figuinhas | where is the EU helping Italy | 01:16 |
| figuinhas | ? | 01:16 |
| figuinhas | Why didn't we send nurses and doctors to Italy? | 01:16 |
| figuinhas | the only doctors I have seen entering Italy are chinese | 01:17 |
| figuinhas | not british | 01:17 |
| random3993 | well props to chinese doctors for that at least | 01:17 |
| figuinhas | not norwish | 01:17 |
| figuinhas | not portuguese | 01:17 |
| figuinhas | I think european lack of solidarity was the biggest disappointment I faced during this crisis / war | 01:18 |
| ubLIX | In very slight defence of the EU (and UK), figuinhas, China has numbers no EU country has. Every EU country is going to need every single one of its clinical staff, and still be desperately short staffed | 01:20 |
| figuinhas | ubLIX, I totally agree, but in the short term, solidatiry was possible | 01:21 |
| random3993 | i wish china would be transparent as to what they are dealing with, they are condemning the rest of humanity with their lies and secrets | 01:21 |
| ubLIX | perhaps more with supplies than with staff | 01:21 |
| random3993 | it is unforgiveable | 01:21 |
| ryouma | why does the population size matter? it is proportion no? | 01:21 |
| ryouma | oic | 01:21 |
| dividediff[m] | random3993: i thought china has come out ? i thought it was hiding in the early stages | 01:21 |
| figuinhas | Wuhan still has a large proportion | 01:22 |
| random3993 | CCP prime concern is always controlling the spread of information. especially if it's bad news from within its borders | 01:22 |
| figuinhas | random3993, we all knew about the virus in January | 01:23 |
| figuinhas | WHO was contacted | 01:23 |
| figuinhas | there was a team in Wuhan | 01:23 |
| figuinhas | they only saw what was was shown, but there was a team there | 01:23 |
| figuinhas | guys | 01:24 |
| dividediff[m] | "Both Lyft and Uber also said they will protect drivers financially if they are asked to isolate themselves. " | 01:24 |
| figuinhas | I need to concentrate on working | 01:24 |
| figuinhas | I am going to close this | 01:25 |
| figuinhas | have a good night | 01:25 |
| figuinhas | and stay safe | 01:25 |
| figuinhas | and healthy | 01:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:24 UTC: (news): Boeing seeks $60 billion in government aid for aerospace industry hit by coronavirus — from WHO at 00:24: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Zott2B | 01:27 |
| figuinhas | just got back | 01:28 |
| figuinhas | because of some news | 01:28 |
| figuinhas | https://24.sapo.pt/atualidade/artigos/covid-19-china-diz-ter-desenvolvido-vacina-com-exito | 01:28 |
| figuinhas | China got a vaccine | 01:28 |
| figuinhas | the new says it was successfully developed | 01:28 |
| dividediff[m] | HeXiLeD: emoji test | 01:28 |
| kreyren | %cases czech | 01:28 |
| Brainstorm | kreyren: In all areas, Czechia, there are 434 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 3 recoveries as of March 18, 00:12Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Czechia for time series data. | 01:28 |
| kreyren | LjL, seems fixed :p | 01:28 |
| dividediff[m] | HeXiLeD: see the emoji? | 01:29 |
| figuinhas | ah | 01:30 |
| figuinhas | god dmn | 01:30 |
| figuinhas | looking deeper on the new | 01:30 |
| figuinhas | it just got accepted for human trial | 01:30 |
| dividediff[m] | figuinhas: keep us posted, esp on english source | 01:30 |
| figuinhas | sorry | 01:31 |
| dividediff[m] | figuinhas: "Any potential vaccine would still be at least a year away, WHO says" | 01:31 |
| figuinhas | the new title said vaccine developped with success | 01:31 |
| figuinhas | sensationalist title | 01:31 |
| figuinhas | I know | 01:32 |
| figuinhas | but there is this thing called hope | 01:32 |
| figuinhas | .... | 01:32 |
| vjx | US says they have a vaccine before October | 01:32 |
| Albright | I would volunteer for vaccine testing. And by that I mean taking a vaccine and then intentionally being in the vicinity of people with the disease. | 01:32 |
| dunnp | did yall see this paper: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf | 01:33 |
| dunnp | not good resutlts | 01:33 |
| Albright | I think I'm healthy enough that I would survive if the vaccine didn't work, and if I didn't, oh well. | 01:33 |
| figuinhas | Albright | 01:33 |
| figuinhas | ... a problem there | 01:33 |
| ryouma | they probably will ask for volunteers at some point | 01:33 |
| figuinhas | it is yet to be proven why some people don't develop the disease | 01:33 |
| nt80 | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8121567/Coronavirus-vaccine-developed-Chinas-military-bio-warfare-expert-begins-clinical-trial.html the same article in english | 01:34 |
| figuinhas | guys | 01:34 |
| figuinhas | reallly gotta go | 01:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:25 UTC: Australia coronavirus live: hoarding is 'un-Australian' and must stop, Scott Morrison says – latest updates: Australians abroad warned to come home now as borders and airports close; new Covid-19 tests kits available but not yet in Australia. Follow all the latest news, live [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NewT2e | 01:34 |
| ryouma | is there a house unaustralian activities committee? | 01:36 |
| ryouma | and isn't preparing so that you can self-isolate good if you don't overdo it? | 01:36 |
| ryouma | i suppose if you are healthy it could be a problem | 01:37 |
| random3993 | the doomsday preppers laugh at us from their underground bunkers full of 3 years worth of food | 01:39 |
| AimHere | Yeah. The doomsday preppers and the socially anxious are the cool kids now | 01:41 |
| ryouma | this is their day | 01:41 |
| ryouma | perhaps they can help others too | 01:41 |
| Albright | I was thinking of putting up a note near the communal mailboxes for our condo row telling people to give me a ring if they need a spare roll of TP. | 01:46 |
| Albright | That I have so much left has more to do with being cheap and buying in bulk than being a prepper, though. | 01:46 |
| dividediff[m] | Elon reaffirms that corona is a joke | 01:49 |
| dividediff[m] | * Elon reaffirms that corona is a joke' | 01:50 |
| dividediff[m] | * Elon reaffirms that corona is a 'joke' | 01:50 |
| ryouma | why? | 01:50 |
| ubLIX | ooh | 01:51 |
| ubLIX | %title https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22610886 | 01:51 |
| Brainstorm | ubLIX: From news.ycombinator.com: Cambridge University Press make their books free until May | Hacker News | 01:51 |
| ubLIX | direct: https://www.cambridge.org/core/what-we-publish/textbooks | 01:51 |
| ubLIX | (html only, though) | 01:51 |
| ryouma | Albright: great idea. improves morale too. | 01:51 |
| ryouma | Albright: though i suppose you should say why you ahve so muych and that it is for free so you don't get accused of hoarding or such | 01:53 |
| ryouma | whatever you call it -- gouging or osmething | 01:54 |
| Albright | ryouma: Yeah… partially afraid it'll cause some loose nut to come rob it from me or something. | 01:54 |
| Albright | Wouldn't be gouging if I'm giving it away… | 01:54 |
| Albright | ubLIX: Hey, cool. | 01:55 |
| ubLIX | should help while away some self-isolation | 01:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 01:02 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Bloomberg Reports that Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin said in a meeting with Republican Senators that the US could see an unemployment rate of 20%. — from WHO at 01:02: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/5VXCMU | 02:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:09 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: S&P says recession in Asia Pacific now guaranteed, Italy death toll crosses 2,500 — from WHO at 01:09: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/G8RBN7 | 02:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 01:16 UTC: /u/slakmehl: CNN Breaking News su Twitter: "The air traffic control tower at Chicago Midway International Airport is temporarily closed after several technicians at the facility tested positive for coronavirus, the FAA says https://t.co/YHCcBrDOAh… https://t.co/4b2zN1UOYH" [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/HvZJrc | 02:22 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +82 cases (now 198632), +817 recoveries (now 82565) 🔶 China: +10 cases (now 81068), +816 recoveries (now 69614) 🔸 Algeria: +1 cases (now 61) 🔸 Andorra: +23 cases (now 39) 🔸 Argentina: +11 cases (now 79) 🔸 Azerbaijan: +6 cases (now 34) 🔸 Bahrain: +7 recoveries (now 88) 🔸 Bolivia: +1 cases (now 12) 🔸 Bosnia and Herzegovina: +7 cases (now 34) [... want %more?] | 02:23 |
| HeXiLeD | %more | 02:34 |
| Brainstorm | HeXiLeD, [...] 🔸 Brazil: +25 cases (now 346) 🔸 Canada: +1 cases (now 598), +1 recoveries (now 12) 🔸 Beijing, China: +2 cases (now 458), +4 recoveries (now 373) 🔸 Guangdong, China: +5 cases (now 1369), +5 recoveries (now 1312) 🔸 Guangxi, China: +2 recoveries (now 250) 🔸 Heilongjiang, China: +3 recoveries (now 459) [...] → https://paste.ee/p/hpTzS | 02:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 01:34 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The New York Times su Twitter: "This is how behind the U.S. is in coronavirus testing https://t.co/b3uofYfkfD" — from WHO at 01:34: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/yR9oaX | 02:36 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +101 cases (now 198733), +14 deaths (now 7985), +215 recoveries (now 82780) 🔶 Korea, South: +93 cases (now 8413), +3 deaths (now 84), +133 recoveries (now 1540) 🔶 Hubei, China: +1 cases (now 67800), +11 deaths (now 3122), +880 recoveries (now 56883) 🔸 Algeria: +1 cases (now 61) 🔸 Andorra: +23 cases (now 39) 🔸 Argentina: +11 cases (now 79) [... want %more?] | 02:39 |
| dividediff[m] | "wider reports that an increasing number of young people were being hospitalised due to the new coronavirus (Covid-19). 'They are a bit younger, between 40 to 45 years old and the cases are more complicated' | 02:40 |
| LjL | there's these rumors about younger people... | 02:40 |
| LjL | maybe if it got *some* younger people maybe *some* younger people would stop going outside and hanging out like the lockdown laws are there just for fun | 02:41 |
| LjL | ;( | 02:41 |
| yuriwho | here’s a fascinating new preprint that suggests a new approach for developing a therapeutic treatment for COVID: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.16.994236v1 | 02:41 |
| LjL | yuriwho, instead of binding to ACE2 so the virus can't... *be* ACE2 so the virus binds to it? | 02:43 |
| yuriwho | it is similar to the human receptor for the virus, but it has been mutated to bind the virus with much tighter affinity.... like an off switch for new infection | 02:44 |
| yuriwho | and neutralizing any virus particles | 02:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:45 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: NSW reports 50 new cases as prime minister says schools will not be closed – latest updates — from WHO at 01:45: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/NewT2e | 02:50 |
| dividediff[m] | Consider adding insulation to doors if you share them areas with neighbors, so sneezes don't blow in | 02:52 |
| dividediff[m] | Was about to click the order button on amazon for food and they ran out of stock, right before i was about to blick | 02:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana at 01:53 UTC: DECRETO-LEGGE 17 marzo 2020, n.18: Misure di potenziamento del Servizio sanitario nazionale e disostegno economico per famiglie, lavoratori e imprese connesseall'emergenza epidemiologica da COVID-19. (20G00034) — from WHO at 01:53: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qPSX9T | 02:57 |
| Albright | It looks like the stock market had a good day today at least. | 03:07 |
| BSC12MD | anything is better than yesterday's stock market crap | 03:07 |
| HeXiLeD | do you have a channel for stock market covid infos? | 03:08 |
| BSC12MD | I have a 401K plan I took a pretty good hit | 03:08 |
| Albright | This is probably a good time to buy in if you can. | 03:09 |
| changnick | Soon is the time to put a put on beyond meats. | 03:09 |
| Albright | I have five digits of debt for the first time since paying off my student loan and aren't sure if I'll be able to pay rent for next month, so that's not me. :P | 03:09 |
| BSC12MD | just found out that the coronavirus is popping up all over the Kansas City area. | 03:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:08 UTC: (news): Boeing seeks $60 billion in government aid for aerospace industry hit by coronavirus — from WHO at 02:08: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Zott2B | 03:11 |
| HeXiLeD | look at this crap https://twitter.com/RT_com/status/1239521798934405120 | 03:11 |
| Albright | Yes, yes, Boeing wants gubmint gibs | 03:11 |
| Albright | %title | 03:11 |
| Brainstorm | Albright: From twitter.com: RT su Twitter: "‘#Coronavirus challenge’… it’s a thing 21yo Ava Louise is basking in viral attention after licking a toilet seat on a plane She also said that ‘coronavirus is for poor people’ and she [...] | 03:11 |
| Albright | Ah, yeah, I heard about that crap. Social media makes people stuipd. | 03:12 |
| dividediff[m] | HeXiLeD: careful about trusting RT, russian gov | 03:12 |
| dividediff[m] | same w ruptly i believe | 03:13 |
| dividediff[m] | anyone have any idea if drinking alcohol and covid are a bad idea?Prob a dumb question | 03:13 |
| BSC12MD | if you drink enough liquor a virus will be fooled and taking you are dead | 03:15 |
| ryouma | some might actually not catch the joke | 03:16 |
| dividediff[m] | beer | 03:16 |
| BSC12MD | they were doing that and Iraq or Iran and they drink so much that they actually died because of the liquor poisoning and not because of the virus | 03:17 |
| BSC12MD | alcohol is not allowed over there for some reason probably because of the Muslim religion so they make a whole bunch of illegal hooch and it's probably contaminated | 03:17 |
| HeXiLeD | dividediff[m]: is there any gov one can trust? | 03:19 |
| BSC12MD | I'd say the US government but we're corrupt as hell just like every other government in this world except for maybe Switzerland | 03:20 |
| bin_bash | lol switzerland is not free from corruption | 03:20 |
| BSC12MD | Switzerland women looks so wholesome and trustworthy and honest | 03:20 |
| dividediff[m] | HeXiLeD: Maybe some are good, however some are definitely bad | 03:21 |
| HeXiLeD | any good politician is working as fertilizer | 03:22 |
| HeXiLeD | same for lawyers | 03:22 |
| BSC12MD | I draw the line on lawyers there are no good lawyers | 03:22 |
| HeXiLeD | laywers, bankers, politicians, religious representatives, are great for fertilizer | 03:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 02:15 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Jesse McKinley su Twitter: "BREAKING: @BilldeBlasio says that the city now 923 cases of #coronavirus, up from 644 THIS MORNING. Also, now 10 deaths in the city." — from WHO at 02:15: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/uUpTnp | 03:24 |
| BSC12MD | which city brainstorm | 03:26 |
| derpadmin | Canada federal numbers are slow to update | 03:31 |
| derpadmin | US is worst, I have to rely on wikipedia | 03:31 |
| derpadmin | I am making my part and not moving whatsoever | 03:32 |
| derpadmin | because I can | 03:32 |
| yuriwho | derpadmin: check this site https://coronavirus.1point3acres.com/en | 03:34 |
| derpadmin | looks about right | 03:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:29 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: NSW reports 50 new cases as prime minister says schools will not be closed – latest updates — from WHO at 02:29: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/NewT2e | 03:38 |
| kreyren | Are there any proofs to believe that SARS-CoV-2 has been made in a labolatory? Seems that more people working in a laboratories seems to believe so.. | 03:47 |
| Albright | kreyren: No. It's just a hypothesis/conspiracy theory. | 03:53 |
| kreyren | Albright, based on what_ | 03:54 |
| kreyren | s/_/?/gm | 03:54 |
| Brainstorm | kreyren meant to say: Albright, based on what? | 03:54 |
| Albright | kreyren: There are supposedly some Chinese biomedical labs in the Hubei province, including one close to the "wet market" where the whole thing supposedly started. There's no evidence any of those labs are creating bioweapons, but it's theoretically possible. | 03:55 |
| ryouma | vince r at virology blog seems quite confident that is is not manmade | 03:55 |
| ryouma | the sequences are published | 03:55 |
| Albright | There were also early news stories saying that the virus had similarities to HIV which were unlikely to be coincidence. I'm not sure if that's still true. | 03:56 |
| ryouma | what is the point of a bioweapon that spreads | 03:56 |
| kreyren | Albright, any relevant information to prove/disprove the theoretical posibility of it being a biological weapon or leaked experiment? | 03:56 |
| Albright | kreyren: Well, that's the thing. It can't really be disproven either. | 03:57 |
| kreyren | ryouma, in theory a population control solution assuming ongoing problem with chinese overpopulation ? | 03:57 |
| Albright | If this *is* a bioweapon, I highly doubt the Chinese *intentionally* released it. | 03:57 |
| ryouma | does not seem plausible | 03:57 |
| ryouma | weapons should be controllable | 03:57 |
| kreyren | Albright, What about unintentionally then or what is your argument for intentional spread | 03:58 |
| ryouma | even if it was unintentionally released, there has to be an intent for creating it in the first place unless it was an artifact of something that did make sense | 03:58 |
| Albright | kreyren: Well, it's theoretically possible an employee got accidentally contaminated and then spread it while getting lunch at the wet market. | 03:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 02:52 UTC: /u/slakmehl: As cases mount in epidemic hotspots that are clearly going to have their medical facilities overrun in weeks if not days, the White House has still not enlisted either the Army Corps of Engineers or FEMA to help expand capacity. — from WHO at 02:52: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/hcv2Cd | 03:58 |
| ryouma | but what do i know. i just don't get the point of such bioweapons. | 03:58 |
| dividediff[m] | A Canadian reporting is has found weak evidence suggesting canada may be covering up some new cases partially | 03:58 |
| kreyren | ryouma, > weapons should be controllable -- It could be controllable assuming that you have a cure for it. | 03:59 |
| Albright | Me, I don't buy the bioweapon theory, either intentional or unintentional at this point. | 03:59 |
| kreyren | i.e you can infect 10 people and then give cure to 2 of them who are guaranteed to not get it. | 04:00 |
| ryouma | you have to distribute the cure | 04:01 |
| kreyren | Albright, me neiher, but i can not say for certain why | 04:01 |
| ryouma | and have a cover story | 04:01 |
| ryouma | and this is quite complex given taht for example china needs customers for its exports | 04:01 |
| dividediff[m] | i don't buy the weapon theory either | 04:02 |
| kreyren | ryouma, they are now the major producent of protection gear and it seems that in theory they've killed just enough people to handle the overpopulation issue for upcomming years | 04:02 |
| kreyren | and they are censoring the population about any information for SARS-CoV-2 | 04:03 |
| ryouma | well they censor all the time | 04:03 |
| kreyren | true but it would in theory provide an environment for such "bioweapon" | 04:03 |
| ryouma | i am ignorant, but i doubt this theory can be given solid credentials without more knowledge than is in the room | 04:04 |
| tinwhiskers | I think there's probably better channels to indulge your conspiracy theories | 04:04 |
| ryouma | and if vince r thinks there is evidence against it, i'm ok with going with his opinion and those of his guests | 04:05 |
| ryouma | unless i hear compelling reason | 04:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 03:02 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Katie Simpson su Twitter: "BREAKING: Canada and the U.S. are in advanced talks about closing the border to non-essential travel. CNN first reported, but we at CBC have matched via sources. Web story coming ASAP." — from WHO at 03:02: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/6DHl6J | 04:05 |
| ryouma | if infection is on both sides, closing border helps merely by preventing spread that would have occurred not doing so? | 04:07 |
| yuriwho | I think they don’t want the border overwhelmed by panic to allow essential trade to still flow | 04:08 |
| ryouma | that makes sense | 04:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:04 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China reports 13 new cases, Italy death toll crosses 2,500: China accounts for less than 50% of the total number of cases globally; other countries like Italy, Iran and Spain saw a sharp spike in infections. — from WHO at 03:04: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/G8RBN7 | 04:12 |
| dividediff[m] | ppl take 17.3 days on avg to die from covid https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca | 04:22 |
| dividediff[m] | That means the person who died on 2/29 in Washington State probably got infected around 2/12. | 04:22 |
| tinwhiskers | it's fairly likely that the *first* person to die may have had a shorter than average battle though. | 04:24 |
| dividediff[m] | yea | 04:28 |
| LjL | %tell splash_: i guess it's totally fine now https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200317IPR75103/positive-from-euco-europe-shows-it-is-united-and-ready-to-act | 04:46 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: I don't know splash_. Please try again without them. | 04:46 |
| LjL | err | 04:46 |
| LjL | %tell slash_: i guess it's totally fine now https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20200317IPR75103/positive-from-euco-europe-shows-it-is-united-and-ready-to-act | 04:46 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I'll pass slash_ your message when they are around. | 04:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:50 UTC: Australia coronavirus live: NSW reports 57 new cases and one death – latest updates: Australians abroad warned to come home as borders and airports close; new Covid-19 tests kits available but not in Australia. Follow the latest news, live — from WHO at 03:50: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/NewT2e | 04:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:00 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China reports 13 new cases, Taiwan to bar entry to most foreigners: As of now, China accounts for less than 50% of the total number of cases confirmed globally as other countries have seen a sharp spike in infections in recent weeks. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/G8RBN7 | 05:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:09 UTC: Australia coronavirus live: NSW reports 57 new cases and one death – latest updates: Australians abroad warned to come home as borders and airports close; new Covid-19 tests kits available but not in Australia. Follow the latest news, live — from WHO at 04:09: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/NewT2e | 05:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 04:23 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: CNN Breaking News su Twitter: "The air traffic control tower at Chicago Midway International Airport is temporarily closed after several technicians at the facility tested positive for coronavirus, the FAA says https://t.co/YHCcBrDOAh… https://t.co/4b2zN1UOYH" [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/PcR4p8 | 05:32 |
| rajrajraj | Oh hi | 05:32 |
| tinwhiskers | hi rajrajraj :-p | 05:34 |
| rajrajraj | tinwhiskers: why are you everywhere | 05:34 |
| tinwhiskers | I could clearly say the same thing | 05:34 |
| ryouma | lol | 05:35 |
| rajrajraj | Could have would have should have | 05:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 04:40 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: WHO Now Officially Recommends to Avoid Taking Ibuprofen For COVID-19 Symptoms — from WHO at 04:40: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/9jdoCJ | 05:44 |
| ryouma | i thought taht aws supposed to have been a hoax | 05:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:56 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China reports 13 new cases, Taiwan to bar entry to most foreigners: As of now, China accounts for less than 50% of the total number of cases confirmed globally as other countries have seen a sharp spike in infections in recent weeks. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/G8RBN7 | 06:07 |
| python476 | hoi | 06:13 |
| python476 | question | 06:13 |
| python476 | instead of having microfiltering tissue for masks | 06:13 |
| python476 | can't we make cyclone-filters ? | 06:13 |
| python476 | even though.. cyclone separation is based on mass and viruses are not that heavy | 06:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:09 UTC: Australia coronavirus live: NSW reports 57 new cases and one death – latest updates: Australians abroad warned to come home as borders and airports close; new Covid-19 tests kits available but not in Australia. Follow the latest news, live — from WHO at 05:09: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/NewT2e | 06:19 |
| xionbox[m] | Ugh I can't believe that some people still are not taking this virus seriously | 06:30 |
| xionbox[m] | Totally blows my mind | 06:30 |
| sneep | Welcome to planet earth | 06:30 |
| xionbox[m] | People in the US think it's a "political virus", a hoax invented by people from one side of the aisle to take away their rights | 06:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:28 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China reports 13 new cases, Taiwan to bar entry to most foreigners: As of now, China accounts for less than 50% of the total number of cases confirmed globally as other countries have seen a sharp spike in infections in recent weeks. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/G8RBN7 | 06:31 |
| spacious[m] | Toughen up snowflake.. it's just like getting a cold. You probably think climate change is a big deal too. (/s) | 06:31 |
| sneep | I've watched a youtube video where people seemed to blame the media | 06:35 |
| sneep | in the comments | 06:35 |
| sneep | for panic buying specifically | 06:35 |
| spacious[m] | The media makes it worse.. but it depends on the type of media. Shouty tabloid stuff, definitely. | 06:36 |
| xionbox[m] | The media also has no idea what they're talking about. As usual on this side of the Atlantic, they're letting political pundits talk about the crisis | 06:38 |
| spacious[m] | The biggest problem as I see it is the inconsistency of advice from governments and those in the public eye. People then get confused about what to do so they go full-survival mode.. which may or may not be well planned (eg. Hoarding toilet rolls) | 06:38 |
| spacious[m] | This is a serious virus, and preparation is needed for the long haul because it's going to be around for a while. Panicking at the start doesn't help. | 06:39 |
| xionbox[m] | ^^^ | 06:41 |
| python476 | xionbox[m]: america is really degraded u_u; | 06:41 |
| xionbox[m] | LjL: might be worth adding this new plotter of cases: https://covid19.scientist.com/ | 06:42 |
| skyofdust | /away away wey | 06:46 |
| skyofdust | ugh | 06:46 |
| Poon_ | %data hungary | 06:46 |
| Brainstorm | Poon_: In all areas, Hungary, there are 50 cases, 1 deaths (2.0% of cases), 2 recoveries as of March 17, 11:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Hungary for time series data. | 06:46 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Are there currently any lists of the areas that are in lock down? I head that SanFran was. New York City probably will be in the next 48 hours ( in my opinion ) | 06:47 |
| python476 | ny, washington are the 2 most affected areas | 06:48 |
| python476 | so plausibly the first one to downlock | 06:48 |
| sneep | xionbox[m]: You can actually witness people just like that in the neighboring channel and sometimes in this channel too | 06:48 |
| xionbox[m] | Ha, so I got annoyed because someone I knew years ago had posted something on FB about how it's all a big joke. Showed her data in a comment and told her something along the lines of "People who are joking about the situation should instead call their elderly relatives for one last good laugh." Instead of engaging in a conversation, she just deleted my comment. Ignorance is bliss! | 06:51 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +304 cases (now 199102), +2 deaths (now 7995), +30 recoveries (now 82824) 🔸 Australia: +108 cases (now 560), +1 deaths (now 6), +16 recoveries (now 43) 🔸 Austria: +1 recoveries (now 9) 🔸 Brazil: +3 cases (now 349) 🔸 China: +12 cases (now 81086), +13 recoveries (now 69716) 🔸 Beijing, China: +11 cases (now 469), +5 recoveries (now 378) [... want %more?] | 06:52 |
| Hakachukai[m] | I know someone who works at a grocery store in the USA. The morons that she works with ( managers included ) are all saying things like "Even Trump is calling COVID19 a hoax" ... "This is no worse than the regular flu" ... "There is no COVID19, it's just the regular flu" ... "COVID19 has a 19 in it's name because it was started in the USA in 2019". Man, you gotta be kidding me! How do people even become this stupid | 06:52 |
| Hakachukai[m] | and still not give in to natural selection? | 06:52 |
| sneep | I don't think there is particularly strong natural selection for intelligence in our era | 06:55 |
| xionbox[m] | ow | 06:55 |
| xionbox[m] | *Wow | 06:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:43 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: shares plunge 6.4% and NSW reports 57 new cases and one death – latest updates — from WHO at 05:43: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/NewT2e | 06:55 |
| xionbox[m] | I was in a grocery store this morning ten minutes after opening. IN the 50 minutes I was there, I didn't see anyone wearing a mask but me (and I'm in a low risk group). Saw an employee sneeze loudly in his sanitary gloves and immediately proceeded to touch the self-checkout screen. Saw another older guy who coughed without covering his mouth in the direction of someone walking toward him | 06:56 |
| sneep | Wonder where people get this from, just headed over to Fox News and they seem to take it seriously | 06:58 |
| tinwhiskers | ... fox ... | 06:59 |
| spacious[m] | seriously? | 06:59 |
| tinwhiskers | It's a shame those people will get our old folk killed instead of it killing stupid people. | 06:59 |
| spacious[m] | stupidity is frighteningly resilient | 07:00 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Yeah, I prepped early and have been 90% self quarantined for about 2 weeks. Now that things are really heating up, I'll like switch to 100% self quarantine. I'm not sick BTW... I just don't want to get it and don't want to spread it. Gotta flatten that curve! | 07:00 |
| oldguy | %data uk | 07:00 |
| Brainstorm | oldguy: In all areas, United Kingdom, there are 1950 cases, 71 deaths (3.6% of cases), 65 recoveries as of March 18, 05:46Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 07:00 |
| dividediff[m] | I keep on mixing up quarantine and lock down. ELI5 lockdown please | 07:00 |
| dividediff[m] | Hakachukai: excellent work! | 07:01 |
| xionbox[m] | sneep: now they do, but even just four days ago several pundits were saying it was just the flu. Two days ago there was a House rep who recommended people go to restaurants to compensate for the market drop | 07:01 |
| xionbox[m] | Hakachukai: good of you! I must admit that I've only been really taking it seriously for about a week | 07:01 |
| dividediff[m] | I've been taking srsly for... 3 days? Have been staying in a lot for the past week tho | 07:02 |
| Hakachukai[m] | In the USA the mainstream media is a SERIOUS problem! You'll never find a more serious supporter of freedom of speech and freedom of the press than me. That said, I have to openly admit the the Press in the USA is WILDLY out of control! Something needs to be done to bring them under control! They lie and spread mis information 24/7! They are literally shaping elections with lies... and now they are getting people | 07:03 |
| Hakachukai[m] | killed with COVID19 | 07:03 |
| sneep | Is that another FB post | 07:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:59 UTC: 'Whatever it takes': UK pledges almost $400 billion to help businesses through coronavirus: The U.K. government has announced a raft of new financial measures to help businesses under severe strain from the coronavirus outbreak. — from WHO at 05:59: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/3upuIz | 07:07 |
| Hakachukai[m] | <sneep "Is that another FB post"> Are you talking to me? | 07:10 |
| sneep | Yes | 07:12 |
| Hakachukai[m] | No, it's not an FB article. It's my opinion, which I believe to be backed up by pretty obvious facts. FB, YouTube, Google and several other tech media giants are guilty of exactly the same thing. They are using censorship and misinformation to shape the Nation. The bad new is... it's working | 07:15 |
| xionbox[m] | Yeah. The tech giants must be considered publishing platforms, with all of the restrictions and regulations that comes with | 07:16 |
| sneep | I dunno... but maybe I'm biased | 07:16 |
| xionbox[m] | sneep: what's your opinion? I'm curious | 07:16 |
| sneep | What kind of law do you suggest for sites like FB, and should this law apply to sites that have a certain user count? | 07:17 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Anyway.... I don't mean to derail the conversation too much... but the Mainstream media is GREATLY to blame for how the average person in the USA is acting right now in this serious situation | 07:17 |
| Hakachukai[m] | <sneep "What kind of law do you suggest "> I'm not sure. I just know that the problem is too big to ignore and that something CLEARLY needs to be done | 07:18 |
| sneep | I guess I haven't seen many of the crazy articles anyway | 07:18 |
| sneep | I've just seen crazy individuals say crazy stuff | 07:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:12 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China reports 13 new cases, Taiwan to bar entry to most foreigners: As of now, China accounts for less than 50% of the total number of cases confirmed globally as other countries have seen a sharp spike in infections in recent weeks. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/G8RBN7 | 07:19 |
| Hakachukai[m] | One possibility is to simply counter them with equal magnitude so that they aren't the only one's shouting things from the soap box... but I think making some reasonable laws would be a good thing | 07:19 |
| xionbox[m] | In France there's a government agency for regulation of every media (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conseil_sup%C3%A9rieur_de_l%27audiovisuel). It is allowed to impose fines on media which spread misinformation and refuse to publish a correction on their next bulletin at the same time (if applicable). Something like that would never fly in the US though I think | 07:20 |
| sneep | I think there is no shortage of articles etc. that explain that the situation is serious | 07:21 |
| tinwhiskers | Hakachukai[m]: the government is more to blame than the media. If they had called for action and made it clear from the outset how important it was the media wouldn't have done any harm | 07:21 |
| xionbox[m] | (woo-hoo! folding@home is using my CPU again!! :-D) | 07:21 |
| xionbox[m] | tinwhiskers: you probably have a point | 07:22 |
| sneep | I haven't gotten any work units in over 12 hours I think | 07:22 |
| Albright | I just had a thought. I should go get a haircut tomorrow just in case the governor shuts down the freakin' state. | 07:22 |
| Albright | Otherwise I'm gonna have to totally hippie out. | 07:22 |
| tinwhiskers | Heh | 07:23 |
| tinwhiskers | Covid-hair | 07:23 |
| Hakachukai[m] | One example of a law that I thought of that I think would be good is this: If a media outlet produces a story that can be proven to be false or mis-leasing in court, then they should be required by court order to publish a correct and true version of the same story in the exact same length, magnitude, format and by the same author / new anchor as the original story. No more of this retraction on the back bottom of | 07:23 |
| Hakachukai[m] | page 37 bull crap | 07:23 |
| sneep | Albright: That doesn't sound right | 07:23 |
| Albright | Hakachukai[m]: That would be compelled speech. Courts don't like doing that. | 07:24 |
| sneep | Sounds like "The government might be ordering a lockdown tomorrow because it's dangerous to go out, so I'll go out while I can" | 07:24 |
| Albright | Assuming we're talking about the US. | 07:24 |
| Albright | sneep: That's exactly what it is. | 07:24 |
| Hakachukai[m] | <tinwhiskers "Hakachukai: the government is mo"> I agree with you there. Why the HELL did the CDC not jump on this like rabbid tigers when it was only 5 cases in California?! They could have stopped it nearly cold turkey right there! Yeah sure, they would have had to do that a few times in a row in a few different states... but that's it! We wouldn't even be having this problem right now | 07:25 |
| Albright | On the other hand, I can't really afford a haircut right now. | 07:25 |
| Albright | The CDC is not omnipotent. Nobody can guarantee they could have stopped anything. | 07:25 |
| Hakachukai[m] | They should have tried | 07:26 |
| tinwhiskers | Hakachukai[m]: they wanted to but the cheeto in charge deemed that all communications had to go through him and he shut them down. | 07:27 |
| xionbox[m] | <Hakachukai[m] "One example of a law that I thou"> Although a good idea, I already image the court system being boggled down with BS requests, and taking years for those cases to be resolved | 07:28 |
| xionbox[m] | <Hakachukai[m] "I agree with you there. Why the "> Agreed! That's what Singapore did. They put everyone who was in contact with the initial cases in quarantine. Cap is what 243 cases, zero deaths? | 07:29 |
| Hakachukai[m] | tinwhiskers: Also, another factor in all of this is the Trump has to basically walk around on egg shells, because of the non-stop constant insane barrage of false accusation and baseless legal action constantly thrown at him... not to mention the mainstream media twisting EVERY word that he says. I'm not saying that it writes any of his wrongs... but what I AM saying is that it makes his job 1,000 times harder to | 07:30 |
| Hakachukai[m] | perform. It's going to effect his decision making ( just like it would ANY normal human being ). That is yet another serious problem. | 07:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:15 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: global infections creep towards 200,000 as WHO urges aggressive action in south-east Asia — from WHO at 06:15: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Ts4VGa | 07:31 |
| tinwhiskers | Pfff. He should stop being a halfwit then | 07:31 |
| Hakachukai[m] | xionbox: Taiwan did a similar thing. Even though they are RIGHT next to China, they have AMAZINGLY low numbers of cases because of it | 07:31 |
| tinwhiskers | My home country, NZ has locked down borders and so far the only cases are imported. | 07:32 |
| xionbox[m] | Oh nice, I hadn't following Taiwan | 07:32 |
| xionbox[m] | <tinwhiskers " My home country, NZ has locked "> Kinda like a lot of things from NZ :-P Aren't limes and lemons like five NZD a pop? | 07:33 |
| xionbox[m] | *in NZ | 07:33 |
| Albright | "Right next to China?" Well, across a militarized channel, sure… | 07:33 |
| Hakachukai[m] | So maybe more media laws are not the answer. I don't know. I just know that something has to be done and there must be a solution of some kind. This madness has to stop somehow! | 07:33 |
| Albright | s/channel/strait/ | 07:33 |
| Brainstorm | Albright meant to say: "Right next to China?" Well, across a militarized strait, sure… | 07:33 |
| sneep | Trump doesn't have to engage with the media | 07:33 |
| tinwhiskers | xionbox[m]: erm. No... | 07:34 |
| sneep | He can do his announcements at the White House and then say "no time for question k thx bye" | 07:34 |
| xionbox[m] | tinwhiskers: ah ok, my bad | 07:34 |
| tinwhiskers | xionbox[m]: prices for imported goods are a little more but we have a thriving horticultural and agricultural economy, so those sorts of things aren't too bad. | 07:36 |
| tinwhiskers | but you're right that NZ is not a *cheap* place to live | 07:36 |
| Hakachukai[m] | <tinwhiskers "Hakachukai: they wanted to but t"> Can you tell me more about this? I have my doubts about whether or not it's really true that it's Trumps fault exclusively, but I'd definitely like to look into it and learn all of the details. | 07:36 |
| sneep | %g new zealand sheep population | 07:37 |
| sneep | no google trigger :p | 07:37 |
| Brainstorm | sneep, failed to get any hits! | 07:37 |
| tinwhiskers | I'd have to Google it, but you can just as easily if you're interested | 07:37 |
| xionbox[m] | Found the trade balance for NZ: https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/balance-of-trade . Quite interesting to see how it varies throughout the year | 07:37 |
| sneep | Oh, more like broken google trigger | 07:37 |
| tinwhiskers | sneep: we've moved away from sheep in recent years toward dirty bloody dairy cows so we don't all have a sheep warming our beds any more. | 07:38 |
| Hakachukai[m] | <tinwhiskers "I'd have to Google it, but you c"> So, no proof then | 07:38 |
| tinwhiskers | Hakachukai[m]: I'm not attempting to convince you of anything | 07:39 |
| tinwhiskers | Hakachukai[m]: it sounded like you were interested. Don't rely on me to satiate your interest. | 07:40 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Yeah, no worries. I'm just used to dealing with rabbid socialists who try to cram falsehoods down everyone's throats non-stop. Because of that, I always instinctively immediately ask for facts and proof. I'll look it up. Thanks for the idea. I didn't even know that was a real topic | 07:41 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Been too busy learning real facts about COVID19 from actual data and scientific sources | 07:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:31 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: shares plunge 6.4% and NSW reports 57 new cases and one death – latest updates — from WHO at 06:31: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/NewT2e | 07:42 |
| Hakachukai[m] | interesting note about the stock markets plunging around the World. It's not as bad as it sounds. You can make money when the market goes up AND when it goes down. I guarantee that the rich elites and skilled investors will do both | 07:44 |
| xionbox[m] | Agreed | 07:47 |
| xionbox[m] | About the market, there was a good explanation on The Economist podcast called "Intelligence." | 07:47 |
| xionbox[m] | brb | 07:48 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Does anyone know what's going on with the CDC no longer publishing USA COVID19 deaths or test numbers? Is it true? If it is true... why would they do that? | 07:50 |
| tinwhiskers | Hakachukai[m]: what did you hear? | 07:51 |
| tinwhiskers | John Hopkins is still reporting and they get their info on the US from the CDC (I think) | 07:51 |
| Hakachukai[m] | I heard the rumor here: https://www.thedailybeast.com/cdc-decision-to-stop-disclosing-coronavirus-test-total-condemned-by-lawmaker | 07:52 |
| tinwhiskers | JH have said they are closing down but I'm assuming the work will carry on remotely | 07:52 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, that's the total number of tests, not positive tests and deaths | 07:52 |
| tinwhiskers | They won't disclose how many tests they are running because it shows how woefully inadequate they are compared to most of the world. | 07:53 |
| tinwhiskers | (that's probably a directive from above) | 07:54 |
| Hakachukai[m] | That does highlight another big question that I have. What the hell is up with the lack of tests? The rest of the World had no problem with test... why is it only the USA? Is the FDA slowing it down with red tape? Is there some other reason? | 07:54 |
| tinwhiskers | Partly lack of funding, partly bad management and partly a cock-up with the early pcr primers. | 07:55 |
| tinwhiskers | And partly red tape | 07:56 |
| tinwhiskers | But they removed the red tape now | 07:56 |
| sneep | Does anybody else keep reading NSW as NSFW? | 07:56 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Though honestly... I'm not sure how much good it even does to have a test at this point. They can't treat COVID19. So knowing if you have it only serves a purpose for statistics and possibly government aid. If you have a critical case of COVID19 ( even if you were never tested ) your course of action will be exactly the same. | 07:57 |
| Hakachukai[m] | If you don't have it... or have a mild case... your course of action should be exactly the same. STAY THE HELL HOME! | 07:58 |
| tinwhiskers | Tracking down contacts even after containment has failed is still an effective way of slowing the spread (in conjunction with other strategies) | 07:58 |
| sneep | What tinwhiskers said | 07:58 |
| Hakachukai[m] | I would agree with that, but aren't they only testing severe and critical cases ( which would never apply to a contact who yet has no symptoms )? | 07:59 |
| tinwhiskers | I think they're testing contacts now too (and any people with doctors approval) | 08:00 |
| Hakachukai[m] | I might be wrong about this. There is a LOT of information. Doing my best to keep up | 08:00 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Though it is a horrible situation that never should have happened... I think it might have a couple of good out comes... maybe | 08:02 |
| Hakachukai[m] | I think it might advance the level of acceptance of working from home in the USA. A lot of businesses have been resistant to it up till now, but now have no choice but to let people telecommute. Once they find out how realistic it always really was, I think a lot more companies will adopt it. I think this could be good for a lot of people | 08:04 |
| Hakachukai[m] | I hope... but doubt that it could lead so main stream media reform... because this situation has shown how badly it is needed | 08:05 |
| Hakachukai[m] | * I hope... but doubt that it could lead to main stream media reform... because this situation has shown how badly it is needed | 08:06 |
| romare | so the deaths stopped? | 08:06 |
| Hakachukai[m] | It has also shown the World how much a mistake it is to let only a single country be the supply chain for most of the planet. opefully that will change | 08:07 |
| Hakachukai[m] | * It has also shown the World how much a mistake it is to let only a single country be the supply chain for most of the planet. Hopefully that will change | 08:07 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Hopefully after this all countries in the World will Learn from Taiwan and other countries who handled the initial outbreak properly and do so themselves in the future | 08:09 |
| Hakachukai[m] | The bad news is, I'm pretty sure this is just a practice round. I don't remember the source, but I heard that they have been studying bats and found that they carry something like 400 different types of corona viruses ( most of which are unknown). There is no way that this ISN'T going to happen again! | 08:11 |
| Hakachukai[m] | <romare "so the deaths stopped?"> No, the deaths have not stopped | 08:12 |
| Hakachukai[m] | not sure which country you are asking about | 08:13 |
| romare | the whole world? | 08:13 |
| romare | it's not really rising | 08:13 |
| Hakachukai[m] | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ | 08:13 |
| Hakachukai[m] | romare: I don't know right off the top of my head because there is so much going on. The virus is in different phases in different places as different times. Let me take look | 08:15 |
| BruntLIVE | its on your steering wheel | 08:15 |
| Hakachukai[m] | romare: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-toll/ <-- this is a lot better for your questions. | 08:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:05 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China reports 13 new cases, Taiwan to bar entry to most foreigners: As of now, China accounts for less than 50% of the total number of cases confirmed globally as other countries have seen a sharp spike in infections in recent weeks. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/G8RBN7 | 08:18 |
| Hakachukai[m] | @romIt looks like the answer is no. Deaths are not even slowing down yet | 08:18 |
| tinwhiskers | Sure doesn't look like they've stopped http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World | 08:19 |
| Hakachukai[m] | * @romare It looks like the answer is no. Deaths are not even slowing down yet | 08:19 |
| romare | yeah :( | 08:19 |
| romare | dunno I was just checking this page and saw only a small rise so I was a bit hopeful | 08:20 |
| Hakachukai[m] | To make matters worse, the Stats from China can't be trusted at all. I've been seeing videos of Chinese people from Wuhan plainly saying that they can't even get treated to test of COVID19 in China because the CCP is padding the stats in their favor | 08:21 |
| Hakachukai[m] | * To make matters worse, the Stats from China can't be trusted at all. I've been seeing videos of Chinese people from Wuhan plainly saying that they can't even get treated or tested of COVID19 in China because the CCP is padding the stats in their favor | 08:21 |
| tinwhiskers | Hakachukai[m]: there's a lot of disinformation from both sides of that fence. I would take *whatever* you hear with a healthy dose of scepticism. | 08:22 |
| kreyren | ryouma, in theory in china the young citizens are calling the old "evil uncles" so it may be the motive that someone would make SARS-CoV-2 to get rid of these uncles assuming that covid-19 has mortality mostly in the older generation | 08:22 |
| Hakachukai[m] | The CPP has also had the hospitals switch over to a type of test which gives false negatives about 50% of the time, instead of blood testing with is WAY more accurate | 08:22 |
| tinwhiskers | kreyren: this isn't the channel for the engineered virus conspiracy | 08:23 |
| Hakachukai[m] | <tinwhiskers "Hakachukai: there's a lot of dis"> True... and I do. However the videos that I have seen leaking out of China during this entire thing would be pretty hard to fake | 08:23 |
| tinwhiskers | Hakachukai[m]: I've seen videos from China by expats living there that don't paint the same picture | 08:24 |
| tinwhiskers | It's really hard to know what is true with China | 08:24 |
| kreyren | tinwhiskers, i did not mean conspiracy i am not convinced myself, i am rather looking for informations disproving or proving this theory since it seems that more people who work in labolatories with it seems to believe that | 08:24 |
| Hakachukai[m] | <tinwhiskers "Hakachukai: I've seen videos fro"> Can you give me some sources? I'd like to see them | 08:24 |
| tinwhiskers | I like spend most of the day just looking at random stuff I see people posting and I don't keep a list. Just look at a wide variety of sources yourself and don't predetermine what you will believe. | 08:26 |
| Hakachukai[m] | tinwhiskers: I understand. I do the same thing. However, here is the source for the interview from the Wuhan person who can't get tested or treated... and many other pieces of info: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=271Gmv53dTw | 08:27 |
| tinwhiskers | I keep thinking I have an idea about China then something changes my mind. I don't strongly believe anything about China | 08:27 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Don't have anyway to verify it... but it does seem to fit the general paradigm that I've seen from the CCP over that past 5 years that I've paid attention | 08:28 |
| tinwhiskers | There's lots of people in the US and all over the world complaining that they can't get tested or treated | 08:28 |
| kreyren | tinwhiskers, i can't find any relevant sources on the subject excluding the fact it being more dangerous then other coronaviruses and comming for an area that has labolatory in theory capable of developing such thing which are both weak defense | 08:28 |
| BruntLIVE | i cut out chinese everything: massage, pedi, mani, food courts and cleaners. they seem to not give a *uck about america and live completely different for themselves. the stoic, quiet, meek BS curtain has been pulled back forever. | 08:29 |
| tinwhiskers | kreyren: I'm not indulging the engineered virus discussion | 08:29 |
| sneep | 16:22 < kreyren> ryouma, in theory in china the young citizens are calling the old "evil uncles" so it may be the motive that someone would make SARS-CoV-2 to get rid of these uncles assuming that covid-19 has mortality mostly in the older generation <-- These bioweapon conspiracy theories aren't worth anything | 08:29 |
| BruntLIVE | i cut out chinese everything: massage, pedi, mani, food courts and cleaners. they seem to not give a *uck about america and live completely different for themselves. the stoic, quiet, meek BS curtain has been pulled back forever. | 08:29 |
| BruntLIVE | oops | 08:29 |
| Hakachukai[m] | <tinwhiskers "There's lots of people in the US"> yeah, but they don't live in Wuhan... literally the hottest hot zone on the planet! I don't think they have a shortage of tests there. | 08:30 |
| sneep | Anyone could generate a dozen such theories without even trying too hard | 08:30 |
| BruntLIVE | they need to nuke Wuhan | 08:30 |
| tinwhiskers | Hakachukai[m]: Italy is the hot zone. Wuhan is relatively quiet now | 08:30 |
| tinwhiskers | (depending who you believe) | 08:30 |
| kreyren | sneep, Agree, but adapting the scientific approach you can't say for certain that it is not conspiracy theory | 08:31 |
| tinwhiskers | Typical conspiracy nutter thinking | 08:31 |
| Hakachukai[m] | <tinwhiskers "Hakachukai: Italy is the hot zon"> Italy is definitely a HOT zone... that is for sure! However I think that Wuhan is a lot hotter than we are being told. I fully believe that China is "cooking the books". | 08:31 |
| mandiblegrip | kreyren: If you head to ##coronavirus-vox we can have a more open discussion regarding veracity. | 08:31 |
| kreyren | and assuming that more people seems to believe in that i assume it being hot topic in my area.. | 08:31 |
| tinwhiskers | You can't disprove the virus was engineered by unicorns | 08:31 |
| kreyren | mandiblegrip, joined | 08:32 |
| tinwhiskers | Making up unsubstantiated myths gains you nothing | 08:32 |
| kreyren | tinwhiskers, i can since unicorns do not exists nor we do not have any proof of them existing atm | 08:32 |
| BruntLIVE | with covid-19 zombies rule #1? | 08:32 |
| BruntLIVE | CARDIO | 08:32 |
| sneep | Well actually I have a pet unicorn | 08:32 |
| tinwhiskers | kreyren: prove they don't exist | 08:33 |
| kreyren | sneep, doubt | 08:33 |
| Hakachukai[m] | The bottom line is... it doesn't matter. We will literally probably NEVER know where the virus came from. All we can know is where the first case happened... and where it went from there. | 08:33 |
| kreyren | tinwhiskers, > The unicorn is a legendary creature that has been described.. -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicorn | 08:33 |
| kreyren | + general knowledge | 08:33 |
| tinwhiskers | We can come up with dozens of motives for creating something to kill people. | 08:34 |
| tinwhiskers | This is not the channel for conspiracy theories. Take it elsewhere | 08:34 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Theory 147: I created COVID19 by randomly blending up bats and pouring bat smoothies on drunk homeless people in Wuhan... because I'm just really desperate to have a hot topic to discuss online | 08:35 |
| tinwhiskers | Fair. You bastard! | 08:36 |
| Hakachukai[m] | ... I also don't like bats >_> | 08:36 |
| sneep | Why not | 08:36 |
| tinwhiskers | I have a bat colony just a couple of hundred meters from my house. They crap on my roof all the time and eat my papaya. | 08:37 |
| tinwhiskers | They are noisy and smelly but quite cool | 08:37 |
| tinwhiskers | The locals also eat them | 08:37 |
| sneep | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WaPXhYaFReY Bat eating a banana | 08:37 |
| Albright | I love bats. They're cool. The big ones are kinda weird though. | 08:38 |
| sneep | > 2019: what a cute bat > 2020: Coronavirus | 08:38 |
| Hakachukai[m] | For what it is worth, I once got a bat stuck in my hair. None of the horror myths turned out to be true. It didn't scratch me, it didn't byte me and I didn't die of rabies. Basically it wanted to get the hell out of my hair just as much as I wanted it to get the hell out of my hair! :-D | 08:38 |
| sneep | Lol, awesome comment | 08:38 |
| Albright | How big is your hair that a bat was able to get caught in it? | 08:39 |
| Hakachukai[m] | I didn't say that it got SUPER stuck :-P | 08:39 |
| Hakachukai[m] | The whole thing was over in like 2 seconds | 08:40 |
| Hakachukai[m] | It crashed RIGHT into my head, got a little bit stuck... then I shook it out 2 seconds later | 08:40 |
| sneep | Hakachukai[m]: Did you have a banana in your hair? | 08:40 |
| BruntLIVE | stranger meetings is OUT, if not family stay the duck away | 08:41 |
| BruntLIVE | u do Tinder if you want, u will be full of tender covid | 08:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:34 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: shares plunge 6.4% and NSW reports 57 new cases and one death – latest updates — from WHO at 07:34: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/NewT2e | 08:42 |
| Hakachukai[m] | <sneep "Hakachukai: Did you have a banan"> Nope... just happend to be running around in the woods after dark and took a sudden sharp turn around a tree. I'm pretty sure the bat saw me... he just couldn't do anything about it :-P | 08:42 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Now's the time to hit Forex and purchase SELL orders on AUD/USD! | 08:44 |
| Hakachukai[m] | ...maybe... it's not exactly that simple... but you get the point | 08:44 |
| spacious[m] | Hakachukai: it's got a bit further to go methinks | 08:45 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Is anyone keeping a list of current lockdown locations in the USA? I haven't found it on any of the maps that I've looked at | 08:46 |
| BruntLIVE | The World Health Organization recommended Tuesday that people suffering COVID-19 symptoms avoid taking ibuprofen, after French officials warned that anti-inflammatory drugs could worsen effects of the virus. https://www.rawstory.com/2020/03/avoid-taking-ibuprofen-for-covid-19-symptoms-who/ | 08:50 |
| Hakachukai[m] | I might be wrong about this ( because there are a lot of variables to consider ), but it seems to me that we should just put the whole country (USA) on lock down right now and just get it over with before things get any worse. Because seriously... who doesn't see this coming? It's going to have to happen anyway... they are just waiting until it get worse so that they have more public approval | 08:50 |
| Hakachukai[m] | We could just lock it down now and save a LOT of lives | 08:51 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Not to mention a LOT of new cases | 08:52 |
| Hakachukai[m] | Am I wrong about this? | 08:52 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +270 cases (now 199372), +2 deaths (now 7997), +1 recoveries (now 82825) 🔸 Albania: +1 deaths (now 2) 🔸 Aruba: +1 cases (now 4) 🔸 Australia: +113 cases (now 565), +1 deaths (now 6), +16 recoveries (now 43) 🔸 Austria: +139 cases (now 1471), +1 recoveries (now 9) 🔸 Bangladesh: +1 cases (now 11) 🔸 Brazil: +3 cases (now 349) [... want %more?] | 08:52 |
| xionbox[m] | <Hakachukai[m] "romare: https://www.worldometers"> Damn, that's 4.016% death rate | 08:54 |
| xionbox[m] | Take this with a grain of salt: I spent the evening talking to a friend who works in health-care in Denver Colorado (USA), and specifically in the maintenance and distribution of equipment throughout 57 clinics in the state. In short, we are reserving the tests to people who obviously have the disease, with hopes of being able to confine them, but we don't have the resources to confine them, nor do we have the resources | 08:55 |
| xionbox[m] | to trace everyone who may have been in contact with them. We do not test anyone who isn't checked in, even people with symptoms! We tell them to leave and come back if they need urgent care. Meanwhile, staff with symptoms are probably infecting other patients who don't have the virus yet. So yeah, we're kinda totally screwed, and we should really expect the situation to get much much worse before it even starts to | 08:55 |
| xionbox[m] | flatten out. | 08:55 |
| xionbox[m] | Oh right, we are also understaffed, so nurses and docs with symptoms may still be on duty. We also don't have any tests available for staff | 08:55 |
| Hakachukai[m] | xionbox: yeah, that rate will be a lot lower as time progresses ( I think ). One reason why it is so high is because it first struck a nursing home in Washington state and killed a whole bunch of sick elderly people right up front | 08:55 |
| xionbox[m] | True | 08:56 |
| xionbox[m] | But folks in Colorado at least are still taking this very lightly. As I mentioned earlier in the night, I saw some people who were just being gross | 08:57 |
| Hakachukai[m] | xionbox: what you just said is exactly the reason why we need the whole country to be in lockdown literally right now! | 08:57 |
| xionbox[m] | Oh and some junkie shouted at me for wearing a mask in the grocery store saying that it wouldn't help me -- I'll tell you what, it'll definitely make it less likely I get it than you without anything! | 08:58 |
| xionbox[m] | Anyway, I'm off, ttyl | 08:58 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 08:58 |
| Hakachukai[m] | As far as I understand, wearing a non-N95 mask doesn't help you very much ( maybe like 1 or 2% extra ). But it does help protect others if you are sick | 08:59 |
| spacious[m] | Maybe the junkie is confident they can ward off the virus with meth | 08:59 |
| xionbox[m] | Haha maybe | 08:59 |
| mefistofeles | you can also get it through the eyes, apparently | 09:00 |
| xionbox[m] | Hakachukai: isn't the n95 really good only if people cough in your direction? Otherwise, anything which can prevent the dropplets from getting into your mouth is a barrier, even if it's a mild one | 09:00 |
| xionbox[m] | mefistofeles: really?! Do you have a source? The blood/eye barrier is really tough, and that's why there is so little oral medication which can be used when people get eye infections | 09:01 |
| mefistofeles | xionbox[m]: there's this japanese studies on monkeys that suggested that, not sure if I can get the source, though | 09:01 |
| spacious[m] | wear swimming goggles if eye infection is a concern | 09:01 |
| spacious[m] | Or something like that with air/watertight seals between the lenses and the face | 09:02 |
| spacious[m] | Just be careful putting them on and taking them off.. they probably should be disinfected before and after application/removal | 09:03 |
| mefistofeles | btw, nice article https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/what-went-wrong-with-coronavirus-testing-in-the-us | 09:09 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +220 cases (now 199592), +2 deaths (now 7999), +3 recoveries (now 82828) 🔸 Albania: +1 deaths (now 2) 🔸 Algeria: +6 cases (now 67) 🔸 Armenia: +6 cases (now 84) 🔸 Aruba: +1 cases (now 4) 🔸 Australia: +113 cases (now 565), +1 deaths (now 6), +16 recoveries (now 43) 🔸 Austria: +139 cases (now 1471), +1 recoveries (now 9) [... want %more?] | 09:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:25 UTC: Coronavirus live news: global infections near 200,000 as WHO urges aggressive action in south-east Asia: EU implements strictest travel ban in history; outbreak reaches every US state; Australian PM declares ‘human biosecurity emergency’. Follow the latest updates. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Ts4VGa | 09:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:38 UTC: European markets slide despite multi-billion dollar stimulus pledges: European markets sank Wednesday morning, despite Western governments promising to unleash billions of dollars to help businesses and citizens get through the coronavirus pandemic. — from WHO at 08:38: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/rvSkly | 09:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:55 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: AFL says season to go ahead as planned and shares plunge 6.4% – latest updates — from WHO at 08:55: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/NewT2e | 10:05 |
| kreyren | Czech citizens with vietnamese origin are drawing "hearths" on their shops where they produce protection gear for free to all czech citizens. | 10:05 |
| kreyren | also offer free food to emergency services | 10:07 |
| sneep | https://manofmany.com/entertainment/gaming/steam-smashes-record-with-19-7-million-concurrent-users | 10:08 |
| rajrajraj | whats new | 10:10 |
| skullomania | more infections | 10:10 |
| skullomania | over 200k worldwide now | 10:10 |
| rajrajraj | thats old | 10:11 |
| skullomania | what were you expecting then | 10:11 |
| sneep | It was 160,000 two days ago IIRC | 10:11 |
| skullomania | 'we found a cure go to your local pharmacy to get it?' | 10:11 |
| kreyren | source to the story above https://www.novinky.cz/domaci/clanek/vietnamske-obchody-zaplnila-srdicka-obcerstveni-zdarma-pro-zachranne-slozky-40317050 | 10:13 |
| rajrajraj | not englsh | 10:18 |
| rajrajraj | not true | 10:18 |
| kreyren | rajrajraj, pfff | 10:18 |
| kreyren | rajrajraj, https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=cs&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.novinky.cz%2Fdomaci%2Fclanek%2Fvietnamske-obchody-zaplnila-srdicka-obcerstveni-zdarma-pro-zachranne-slozky-40317050 | 10:18 |
| rajrajraj | hehe | 10:18 |
| Hakachukai[m] | mefistofeles: Thanks for the article. Thanks makes a lot of sense. Now I know what went wrong with the tests in the USA. | 10:19 |
| rajrajraj | thanks | 10:19 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +238 cases (now 199830), +4 deaths (now 8003), +15 recoveries (now 82843) 🔸 Albania: +1 deaths (now 2) 🔸 Algeria: +6 cases (now 67) 🔸 Armenia: +6 cases (now 84) 🔸 Aruba: +1 cases (now 4) 🔸 Australia: +113 cases (now 565), +1 deaths (now 6), +16 recoveries (now 43) 🔸 Austria: +139 cases (now 1471), +1 recoveries (now 9) [... want %more?] | 10:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:25 UTC: European markets slide despite multi-billion dollar stimulus pledges; Stoxx 600 down 3.7%: European markets sank Wednesday morning, despite Western governments promising to unleash billions of dollars to help businesses and citizens get through the coronavirus pandemic. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/rvSkly | 10:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:30 UTC: Coronavirus live news: global infections near 200,000 as WHO urges aggressive action in south-east Asia: EU implements strictest travel ban in history; outbreak reaches every US state; Australian PM declares ‘human biosecurity emergency’. Follow the latest updates. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Ts4VGa | 10:40 |
| Jigsy | らいしゅう ほうべい | 10:47 |
| Jigsy | Uh, whoops. | 10:47 |
| Jigsy | Sorry. | 10:47 |
| mefistofeles | %cases Germany | 10:49 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In all areas, Germany, there are 9414 cases, 26 deaths (0.3% of cases), 71 recoveries as of March 18, 09:30Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 10:49 |
| mefistofeles | deaths spiking up, now | 10:49 |
| _io_ | Raishu | 10:50 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +683 cases (now 200513), +13 deaths (now 8016), +13 recoveries (now 82856) 🔶 Germany: +510 cases (now 9877) 🔸 Albania: +1 deaths (now 2) 🔸 Algeria: +6 cases (now 67) 🔸 Armenia: +6 cases (now 84) 🔸 Aruba: +1 cases (now 4) 🔸 Australia: +113 cases (now 565), +1 deaths (now 6), +16 recoveries (now 43) [... want %more?] | 10:50 |
| Strantrickt[m] | %cases Turkey | 10:50 |
| Brainstorm | Strantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 98 cases, 1 deaths (1.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 18, 02:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 10:51 |
| mefistofeles | just heard from someone with a fever that they are not testing people that have not been in contact with other positively tested people... :/ | 11:00 |
| ubLIX | a rapid, cheap test can't come soon enough | 11:01 |
| azbycx | do they just treat you as if you have the covid-19? | 11:01 |
| mefistofeles | azbycx: not even, they just say, ok, isolate and if things get worse got to the hospital | 11:01 |
| mefistofeles | that's Germany, btw | 11:01 |
| ubLIX | seems to be most countries, mefistofeles | 11:02 |
| ubLIX | same here in UK | 11:02 |
| mefistofeles | indeed | 11:02 |
| azbycx | what would happen differently if they tested them? | 11:02 |
| mefistofeles | there are betters, but still | 11:02 |
| azbycx | or is it simply the fact you have to self isolate and if not infected just a waste of their time? | 11:02 |
| mefistofeles | azbycx: testing is key, as seen from Korea or Singapore | 11:03 |
| mefistofeles | to know which measurements are more effective | 11:03 |
| azbycx | just trying to understand the why it matters. | 11:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:45 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: CBI urges government to pay firms directly, saying £350bn package not enough — from WHO at 09:45: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/awMl6s | 11:03 |
| azbycx | i agree we all need fast access to tests | 11:03 |
| azbycx | but I just dont know why it is so important if we self isolate anyways. | 11:03 |
| ubLIX | lots of reasons, azbycx. although the point seems to becomes more and more moot as the infection reaches saturation in a population. as evidenced by Korea, Taiwan, etc, early and comprehensive testing made it possible to snuff out the spread. | 11:07 |
| azbycx | Makes sense. ty. :) | 11:08 |
| azbycx | can't they run the flu tests and if negative move forward with the presumption it is covid-19? | 11:09 |
| azbycx | until they get the covid-19 testing running smoothly? | 11:10 |
| ubLIX | you need an epidemiologist to help with that line of enquiry | 11:10 |
| ubLIX | i suspect that because sars-cov-2 is so contagious, nothing short of a very valid specific negative test would justify not assuming sars-cov-2 | 11:12 |
| mefistofeles | azbycx: I think most of the flu test devices are being adapted to actually test for covid | 11:13 |
| azbycx | interesting stuff, thank you. :) | 11:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:04 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China reports 13 new cases; Pope gives advice to virus-hit Italy: As of now, China accounts for less than 50% of the total number of cases confirmed globally as other countries have seen a sharp spike in infections in recent weeks. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/G8RBN7 | 11:15 |
| mefistofeles | %more | 11:17 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles, [...] from WHO at 10:04: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://paste.ee/p/3dbYs | 11:17 |
| Biep[m] | <LjL "we call those "hyper"markets, wh"> In the Netherlands, "hypermarket" refers to a large supermarket with a considerable non-food section. | 11:17 |
| Biep[m] | <Timvde "Why would anyone be going to IKE"> Because they work from home, which means they can spend time to do other things, such as renovating. | 11:18 |
| Biep[m] | <pagetelegram "Is there any evidence that this "> Yes, two strains have been found. The presumably newer one is less virulent, which makes sense. | 11:20 |
| mefistofeles | there are many changes/strains(?) being detected, afaik | 11:21 |
| mefistofeles | https://nextstrain.org/ncov | 11:21 |
| Jigsy | It's mutating? | 11:28 |
| xrogaan | That is not even it's final form! | 11:31 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +2190 cases (now 202703) 🔶 Spain: +1890 cases (now 13716) 🔶 Belgium: +243 cases (now 1486) 🔸 Albania: +4 cases (now 59), +1 deaths (now 2) 🔸 Algeria: +6 cases (now 67) 🔸 Armenia: +6 cases (now 84) 🔸 Aruba: +1 cases (now 4) 🔸 Australia: +113 cases (now 565), +1 deaths (now 6), +16 recoveries (now 43) [... want %more?] | 11:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:29 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: BBC stops filming on EastEnders and other dramas; Sainsbury's announces elderly-only shopping hour — from WHO at 10:29: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/awMl6s | 11:38 |
| mefistofeles | Jigsy: of course it is, virus mutate a lot | 11:40 |
| Biep[m] | <spacious[m] "stupidity is frighteningly resil"> Yes, stupidity is street-smart. | 11:49 |
| pagetelegram | Friend in hospital was discharged into the streets while still in full psychosis,SMI; I have full ROI, do I request just the discharge papers and file complaint with IDHS? | 11:51 |
| pagetelegram | They were having me speak with the hospital social worker and never got a call that day. When I called to follow up he was discharged. I met with the friend the next day; he can't care for himself which was part of the petitioning for hold; per hold friend did not sign AMA. | 11:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:49 UTC: Biden sweeps to victory in coronavirus affected primaries - live updates: Biden wins well in Florida, Illinois and Arizona, as administration’s focus continues on battling coronavirus emergency — from WHO at 10:49: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/bxuXg8 | 12:02 |
| azy | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urPjrPBKZy4 | 12:09 |
| azy | Dr John Campbell update 18th march | 12:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:09 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China reports 13 new cases; Pope gives advice to virus-hit Italy: As of now, China accounts for less than 50% of the total number of cases confirmed globally as other countries have seen a sharp spike in infections in recent weeks. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/G8RBN7 | 12:14 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +1307 cases (now 204010), +177 deaths (now 8193), +57 recoveries (now 82913) 🔶 Iran: +1192 cases (now 17361), +147 deaths (now 1135) 🔸 Albania: +4 cases (now 59), +1 deaths (now 2) 🔸 Algeria: +11 cases (now 72) 🔸 Armenia: +6 cases (now 84) 🔸 Aruba: +1 cases (now 4) 🔸 Australia: +113 cases (now 565), +1 deaths (now 6), +16 recoveries (now 43) [... want %more?] | 12:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:24 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Cura Italia : I provvedimenti — from WHO at 11:24: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/0vsD7I | 12:26 |
| aradesh | london underground this morning https://i.imgur.com/Q1Yvu1I.jpg | 12:36 |
| ubLIX | jesus | 12:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:35 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Worldwide cases top 200,000: As of now, China accounts for less than 50% of the total number of cases confirmed globally as other countries have seen a sharp spike in infections in recent weeks. — from WHO at 11:35: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/G8RBN7 | 12:38 |
| python476 | aradesh: this event will be a source of measurement on how long until a nation gets "it" | 12:38 |
| python476 | France is having mild reaction to distancing | 12:39 |
| ubLIX | Singapore, Hong Kong and even Taiwan seem to begin to show exponential case growth | 12:39 |
| python476 | I think it could take 1 to 2 weeks to be fully ingrained in peoples mind | 12:39 |
| python476 | I'm not surprised about London. See Florida too | 12:39 |
| python476 | people are too relativistic socially.. we follow each others (unless the danger is in our face) | 12:40 |
| python476 | ubLIX: you mean a 2nd wave ? news were all "asia is flat, epidemic is over" | 12:40 |
| aradesh | last night in the UK, tanks were observed being transported down the motorway. https://imgur.com/a/YgrD3Q4 | 12:40 |
| aradesh | i wonder why. | 12:40 |
| ubLIX | yep, second wave looks like, perhaps related to attempts to lift some restrictions | 12:41 |
| python476 | let me guess, tanks ? | 12:41 |
| python476 | ubLIX: ah well.. this aint gonna be pretty | 12:41 |
| python476 | I want to do urban exploration | 12:42 |
| python476 | 1) lots of new empty buildings | 12:43 |
| python476 | 2) I may be able to find a place where I feel unstressed (my parents are not) | 12:43 |
| xrogaan | the UK is so fucked. | 12:55 |
| AimHere | aradesh, what's the sourcing on that? | 12:55 |
| AimHere | aradesh, that's a picture of tanks being moved along a UK street, but it could be taken anytime and uploaded by anyone | 12:55 |
| sneep | aradesh: Maybe they broke down and had to get roadside assistance? | 12:56 |
| python476 | tanks were seen around Paris too btw | 13:00 |
| python476 | maybe it's just a des-information move | 13:00 |
| python476 | "move tanks around, so people feel bad" | 13:00 |
| pwr22 | Starbucks is still very busy here 🤔 | 13:02 |
| python476 | who's against less hipsters | 13:02 |
| python476 | :cough: | 13:02 |
| sneep | What are hipsters like in your country? | 13:03 |
| python476 | not sure as I don't really know them | 13:04 |
| python476 | but I think it's not far from US ones | 13:04 |
| Jigsy | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/18/labour-mps-alarmed-covid-19-laws-being-passed-without-vote | 13:04 |
| python476 | beards, fancy not fancy clothing | 13:04 |
| mefistofeles | %title | 13:04 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From www.theguardian.com: Labour MPs alarmed at Covid-19 laws being passed without vote | Politics | The Guardian | 13:04 |
| Jigsy | >Other measures would allow ministers to ban gatherings or events, and to make it easier for people to be detained in mental hospitals, and for longer periods. | 13:05 |
| Jigsy | Not entirely sure how detaining someone in a mental hospital helps... | 13:05 |
| xrogaan | I expect the French people to be too angry to respect the confinement order. Not right away though, but down the line the French government will need to control their population in a more forceful way. | 13:05 |
| xrogaan | Frenchmen have a history of violence when it comes to protesting. | 13:06 |
| Jigsy | People will probably respect it... for a while. | 13:06 |
| Jigsy | But after a while, people are generally going to stop caring. | 13:06 |
| xrogaan | As for the UK, the politics simply chose to let people die. Once (and if) the people realize that, they might rebel. | 13:06 |
| Jigsy | Nah, they won't. | 13:06 |
| python476 | xrogaan: i disagree | 13:06 |
| Jigsy | As someone from the UK, the people here are sheep. | 13:06 |
| python476 | people are cranky but not deeply against the confinement, nor violent | 13:07 |
| xrogaan | You have a proven liar as PM, so I believe you. | 13:07 |
| pwr22 | Boat tour still running... | 13:07 |
| dTal | at the end of the day, the most important role the government has is to give out trusted advice | 13:07 |
| Jigsy | As long as they have their panem et circenses nothing will change. | 13:07 |
| contingo | that's in holland pwr22? | 13:08 |
| xrogaan | "panem and circenses"? | 13:08 |
| Jigsy | Bread and circuses. | 13:08 |
| dTal | if the government's advice is shown to not work, people will start to ignore it and socially shame each other into different behaviour | 13:08 |
| dTal | The question is, who wins the race between public perception of the problem, and the actual problem | 13:09 |
| aradesh | AimHere: it's just floating around on the internet | 13:10 |
| changnick | Jigsy: lol | 13:10 |
| AimHere | aradesh, precisely. I mean, it looks like it could be routine movement of tanks from any day for any reason | 13:10 |
| aradesh | AimHere: told it is on the M6 motorway between crewe and stafford. there's audio too of the chap talking | 13:10 |
| aradesh | yeah it could be routine | 13:11 |
| aradesh | or it could be that they're clearing warehousing holding tanks, for temporary hospitals | 13:11 |
| aradesh | warehouses | 13:11 |
| Jigsy | Or we've declared war on the Coronavirus. | 13:11 |
| xrogaan | contingo: https://i.redd.it/ewp41wwf2um41.jpg | 13:11 |
| Jigsy | We're going to shell it into submission, boys! | 13:11 |
| xrogaan | (jokingly) | 13:11 |
| contingo | lol xrogaan | 13:12 |
| yn | https://twitter.com/thefix/status/1240041548672380931 | 13:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:10 UTC: Labour: Labour MPs alarmed at Covid-19 laws being passed without vote — from WHO at 12:10: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/DCsubS | 13:13 |
| xrogaan | yn: yeah, those people don't have a soul. | 13:14 |
| Strantrickt[m] | %case Turkey | 13:14 |
| python476 | yn: these news host suffered from infection long before covid | 13:14 |
| Strantrickt[m] | %data Turkey | 13:14 |
| Brainstorm | Strantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 98 cases, 1 deaths (1.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 18, 02:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 13:14 |
| contingo | %cases UK | 13:15 |
| Brainstorm | contingo: In all areas, United Kingdom, there are 1950 cases, 71 deaths (3.6% of cases), 65 recoveries as of March 18, 12:03Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 13:15 |
| shynoob | what are the real number of cases as opposed to what's shown, like everywhere? | 13:15 |
| pale_moon22k[m] | %data finland | 13:16 |
| Brainstorm | pale_moon22k[m]: In all areas, Finland, there are 333 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 10 recoveries as of March 18, 10:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Finland for time series data. | 13:16 |
| Strantrickt[m] | %cases Turkey | 13:16 |
| Brainstorm | Strantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 98 cases, 1 deaths (1.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 18, 02:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 13:16 |
| pale_moon22k[m] | %data norway | 13:16 |
| Brainstorm | pale_moon22k[m]: In all areas, Norway, there are 1524 cases, 4 deaths (0.3% of cases), 1 recoveries as of March 18, 12:03Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Norway for time series data. | 13:16 |
| dTal | UK cases will be more like 60k by now | 13:16 |
| xrogaan | shynoob: who knows | 13:16 |
| shynoob | %data india | 13:16 |
| Brainstorm | shynoob: In all areas, India, there are 152 cases, 3 deaths (2.0% of cases), 14 recoveries as of March 18, 10:53Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India for time series data. | 13:16 |
| yn | xrogaan: yup | 13:17 |
| yn | python476: yeah... | 13:17 |
| contingo | estimates vary quite widely | 13:17 |
| contingo | of those you see in peer-reviewed literature, I've seen 50% more to 200% more | 13:17 |
| pale_moon22k[m] | Anyone here off grid? | 13:18 |
| shynoob | :P | 13:18 |
| shynoob | that would be antartica maybe? | 13:18 |
| python476 | pale_moon22k[m]: I wish | 13:19 |
| pale_moon22k[m] | @py | 13:19 |
| pale_moon22k[m] | Sorry I don't know how to use riot.im | 13:19 |
| python476 | pale_moon22k[m]: no problem | 13:19 |
| python476 | pale_moon22k[m]: I'm on the IRC part of this channel | 13:19 |
| derpadmin | %cases canada | 13:19 |
| Brainstorm | derpadmin: In all areas, Canada, there are 598 cases, 8 deaths (1.3% of cases), 12 recoveries as of March 18, 12:03Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. | 13:19 |
| python476 | it's weird too | 13:19 |
| contingo | I'd be OK off-grid for a stretch | 13:20 |
| contingo | just incidentally though, not as a matter of intentional preparation | 13:20 |
| pale_moon22k[m] | I would have gone off grid at mid jan if I would had a chance but due limited amount of funds it isn't possible. I am looking for the off grid living in the few years though | 13:21 |
| pale_moon22kk | Joined using IRC now | 13:22 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +479 cases (now 204489), +47 deaths (now 8240), +37 recoveries (now 82950) 🔸 Albania: +4 cases (now 59), +1 deaths (now 2) 🔸 Algeria: +11 cases (now 72) 🔸 Armenia: +6 cases (now 84) 🔸 Aruba: +1 cases (now 4) 🔸 Australia: +116 cases (now 568), +1 deaths (now 6), +16 recoveries (now 43) 🔸 Australian Capital Territory, Australia: +1 cases (now 3) [... want %more?] | 13:23 |
| sneep | https://www.cambridge.org/core/what-we-publish/textbooks | 13:23 |
| sneep | Cambridge University Press is making higher education textbooks in HTML format free to access online during the coronavirus outbreak. | 13:23 |
| contingo | what part of the world are you in, pale_moon22kk? | 13:24 |
| pale_moon22kk | Northern Europe | 13:24 |
| contingo | I have two friends who went off grid in the UK, which required immense determination | 13:24 |
| sneep | Sounds cold | 13:24 |
| contingo | they were also vegans | 13:24 |
| pale_moon22kk | This winter has been warmest on the record | 13:24 |
| contingo | they both ended up hospitalized for long stretches in the wintertimes and gave up and moved to Brazil | 13:24 |
| contingo | but that's just anecdotal. I'm sure some people achieve it | 13:25 |
| xrogaan | We speak about the disease and all, but the real effect on doctors is quite dire. https://i.redd.it/ztd86qa1gen41.jpg | 13:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Mnuchin warns of high unemployment, celebrities 'tour' social media — from WHO at 12:22: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qUPxQU | 13:25 |
| sneep | That probably hurts | 13:25 |
| xrogaan | And they're expected to continue the next day, right? | 13:26 |
| pale_moon22kk | Most likely yes. | 13:26 |
| sneep | The guy on the bottom right should stop for a bit | 13:27 |
| sneep | Maybe he mask didn't fit properly? | 13:27 |
| sneep | his | 13:27 |
| sneep | Er, sorry maybe a she | 13:28 |
| pale_moon22kk | Anyone else feels like crime will increase post pandemic | 13:28 |
| sneep | Why? | 13:29 |
| pale_moon22kk | Because lack of resources | 13:29 |
| xrogaan | No, usually people tends to help each other. | 13:29 |
| mefistofeles | I'd guess once resources are really scarce that could happen... if it happens at all | 13:30 |
| azy | yeah theft is not really about not having enough vital resources | 13:30 |
| pale_moon22kk | https://old.reddit.com/r/preppers/comments/fkg0e8/philly_police_officers_instructed_to_stop_making/ | 13:30 |
| mefistofeles | azy: it's correlated, but maybe not a causation relation | 13:30 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, I think | 13:31 |
| sneep | Glad I'm not in Philadelphia | 13:31 |
| contingo | sales of guns and ammo have spiked in the US | 13:31 |
| xrogaan | Well, yeah, don't expect the police to come help you. | 13:32 |
| azy | i keep hearing that. how do they know? | 13:32 |
| azy | only heard it from smug antigun folk | 13:32 |
| contingo | nytimes reported it from aggregate sales data | 13:33 |
| contingo | i didn't delve further than that | 13:33 |
| contingo | I live in UK | 13:33 |
| pwr22 | <contingo "that's in holland pwr22?"> UK, Bristol | 13:33 |
| rajrajraj | are you serious | 13:33 |
| pwr22 | Me? | 13:34 |
| contingo | oh yeah I think I recognize that stretch | 13:34 |
| contingo | floating hot tub tours of canary wharf docks were still on a few days ago... | 13:36 |
| contingo | they seem to be closing central London restaurants, cafes, retail in sections now | 13:36 |
| RougeR | contingo: | 13:36 |
| RougeR | https://imgur.com/a/mesRQCP | 13:36 |
| pale_moon22kk | Too late | 13:36 |
| Jigsy | I've heard rumors of martial law floating around. | 13:36 |
| RougeR | Life continues in Jersey | 13:37 |
| RougeR | Beers on the beach. | 13:37 |
| contingo | restaurants have been emailing me individually about being shut down | 13:37 |
| rajrajraj | no way | 13:37 |
| RougeR | Still no UK quarantine in jersey | 13:37 |
| RougeR | contingo: my constable/deputy replied | 13:37 |
| contingo | did you protest? | 13:37 |
| RougeR | They will raise my issue | 13:38 |
| RougeR | The states meeting is in 2 hours. | 13:38 |
| RougeR | They did morning announcements of no changes | 13:38 |
| RougeR | Oh | 13:38 |
| rajrajraj | 2 hours really? | 13:38 |
| RougeR | Schools are closing monday | 13:38 |
| RougeR | States of jersey lol | 13:38 |
| RougeR | Not usa | 13:38 |
| Abandoned | what dou you people think about many cases in malaysia where the temperatures are around 36c? | 13:38 |
| RougeR | contingo: I'll protest tommorow if they don't. | 13:39 |
| RougeR | Abandoned: heat won't kill it. | 13:39 |
| Abandoned | it seams that heat is not affecting the virus | 13:39 |
| rajrajraj | for real? | 13:39 |
| RougeR | Yeah | 13:39 |
| pale_moon22kk | Does cold though, like arctic temperatures. | 13:39 |
| rajrajraj | omg arctic | 13:39 |
| RougeR | Fuck knows. | 13:39 |
| RougeR | Let's see how Alaska does. | 13:39 |
| rajrajraj | we will see for sure done we | 13:40 |
| Abandoned | so unless there is a cure/vaccine, this will just go on and we will have a global recession, rise in crime and so on | 13:40 |
| RougeR | Vaccine. Natural herd immunity, adequate therapeutics, adequate control measure | 13:40 |
| RougeR | Yes | 13:40 |
| contingo | I spoke to my IoM friend, ex-member of the House of Keys (their equivalent to a parliament), he said they were basing policy on the same report from Imperial | 13:40 |
| RougeR | This is it for the foreseeable future. | 13:40 |
| rajrajraj | this is it | 13:40 |
| rajrajraj | isnt it | 13:41 |
| RougeR | contingo: interesting. Jersey seems to be similar. | 13:41 |
| RougeR | rajrajraj: yep | 13:41 |
| RougeR | But | 13:41 |
| pale_moon22kk | "Fighting COVID-19 the way Europe is doing, doesn't make sense from a neoclassical economic cost-benefit analysis perspective. Air pollution, tobacco, unhealthy food, AGW, etc, shorten average human lifespans more than a pandemic, possibly much more, given that this pandemic mostly affects old people, and not even all of them. Not much is being done about those other issues, or at least, slowly enough to not hurt or be | 13:41 |
| pale_moon22kk | beneficial to the economy." https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php/topic,2996.msg254748.html#msg254748 | 13:41 |
| RougeR | https://imgur.com/a/mesRQCP | 13:41 |
| contingo | so you might want to make sure that's in the hands of your gov mates | 13:41 |
| RougeR | Have you tried kill all the old? | 13:41 |
| RougeR | contingo: I will do | 13:41 |
| RougeR | Thanks man | 13:41 |
| RougeR | Our modeller here seems fucking awful | 13:42 |
| RougeR | He takes 2 hours to say 5 words | 13:42 |
| RougeR | German guy k think | 13:42 |
| pale_moon22kk | Can you guys use i.imgur.com instead imgur.com so images load faster if you linking just one image? | 13:42 |
| RougeR | We...are...emmm.........trying to...em...you...see....em....flatten...the curve | 13:42 |
| RougeR | pale_moon22kk: AHH was 2 images. | 13:42 |
| pagetelegram | Philly Police clarify here: https://twitter.com/PPDCommish/status/1240132652067422208/photo/1 | 13:42 |
| RougeR | Sorry was on mobile. | 13:42 |
| RougeR | contingo: ugh...i keep getting anxiety in public places | 13:43 |
| RougeR | I had to go into the hospital today | 13:43 |
| RougeR | Was bricking it. | 13:43 |
| pale_moon22kk | I haven't went outside of our property since last friday | 13:43 |
| derpadmin | %cases uk | 13:43 |
| Brainstorm | derpadmin: In all areas, United Kingdom, there are 1950 cases, 71 deaths (3.6% of cases), 65 recoveries as of March 18, 12:30Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 13:43 |
| contingo | ah that's not the best psychological place from which to mount a vociferous protest | 13:44 |
| pale_moon22kk | %cases denmark | 13:44 |
| Brainstorm | pale_moon22kk: In all areas, Denmark, there are 1044 cases, 4 deaths (0.4% of cases), 1 recoveries as of March 18, 12:30Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Denmark for time series data. | 13:44 |
| RougeR | Bright side is. I've got a prescription for 3 months now. | 13:44 |
| RougeR | And a god relationship with new psychiatrist | 13:44 |
| RougeR | contingo: it's not no. | 13:44 |
| RougeR | But I'll deal | 13:44 |
| contingo | what did they give you? just pm if confidential | 13:44 |
| RougeR | Oh I'm on elvanse. | 13:44 |
| RougeR | ADHD and anxiety/depression | 13:45 |
| RougeR | Lisdexamfetamine | 13:45 |
| RougeR | My anxiety spikes without it and I've been in withdrawal for 10 days | 13:45 |
| contingo | oh I was thinking of a rather opposite class of pharms... | 13:45 |
| RougeR | Haha yeah | 13:45 |
| kreyren | %cases china | 13:45 |
| Brainstorm | kreyren: In all areas, China, there are 81102 cases, 3241 deaths (4.0% of cases), 69755 recoveries as of March 11, 02:18Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=China for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.3% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 4.4% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 13:45 |
| RougeR | Weirdly this helps my anxiety contingo | 13:45 |
| contingo | of which I do have some reserves | 13:45 |
| RougeR | It's somewhat illogical. | 13:45 |
| RougeR | That's good contingo | 13:45 |
| contingo | but are kind of a no-no for regular use | 13:46 |
| RougeR | Yeah benzos are not usually advised for regular use | 13:46 |
| AimHere | %cases Germany | 13:46 |
| Brainstorm | AimHere: In all areas, Germany, there are 10069 cases, 26 deaths (0.3% of cases), 73 recoveries as of March 18, 12:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 13:46 |
| RougeR | It's weird. Stimulant calm me down if i let them | 13:46 |
| pale_moon22kk | People are hoarding NSAID's in Finland when it is actually counterproductive for COVID-19 | 13:46 |
| RougeR | pale_moon22k[m]: ahhh lol | 13:46 |
| pale_moon22kk | %cases north korea | 13:47 |
| Brainstorm | pale_moon22kk: Sorry, north korea not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 13:47 |
| RougeR | Jersey announced they are struggling to test contingo as they rely on uk | 13:47 |
| ottavio | %cases italy | 13:47 |
| Brainstorm | ottavio: In all areas, Italy, there are 31506 cases, 2503 deaths (7.9% of cases), 2941 recoveries as of March 17, 18:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 13:47 |
| pale_moon22kk | %cases south korea | 13:47 |
| Brainstorm | pale_moon22kk: In all areas, Korea, South, there are 8413 cases, 84 deaths (1.0% of cases), 1540 recoveries as of March 18, 02:53Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Korea,%20South for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.3% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 5.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 13:47 |
| RougeR | They are in process of setting up lab here they hope | 13:47 |
| contingo | I'm not prone to anxiety, tbh their acquisition was for purely recreational reasons. But that may change! | 13:47 |
| kreyren | What is the number of deaths in china yesterday ? | 13:47 |
| RougeR | contingo: ahhh ikwym | 13:47 |
| contingo | I wonder how the IoM are setting up their community testing | 13:47 |
| RougeR | I've tried them recreationally a bit. | 13:47 |
| kreyren | and number of new infected | 13:47 |
| RougeR | I don't have access to any recreation drugs in jeesey | 13:47 |
| ottavio | Italy, there are 31506 cases, 2503 deaths (7.9% of cases), jeez! | 13:47 |
| RougeR | No weed... | 13:48 |
| contingo | they seem to be the only part of the British Isles already implementing community testing | 13:48 |
| RougeR | Yeah jersey is reserving it for those with conditions | 13:48 |
| RougeR | It's due to UK restrictions. | 13:48 |
| RougeR | If they could they would test all | 13:49 |
| RougeR | I was worried my doctor wouldn't prescribe to me earlier | 13:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:40 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: MPs asked to stay away as Boris Johnson conducts PMQs — from WHO at 12:40: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/awMl6s | 13:49 |
| RougeR | My blood pressure has gone sky high | 13:49 |
| mefistofeles | https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperial-college/medicine/sph/ide/gida-fellowships/Imperial-College-COVID19-NPI-modelling-16-03-2020.pdf | 13:49 |
| RougeR | 140/80 | 13:49 |
| RougeR | Normally it's like 110/70 | 13:49 |
| contingo | I'll have to read into it. IoM have their own degrees and areas of separateness from Westminister legislation | 13:50 |
| RougeR | contingo: did you recognize where I was on my pics | 13:50 |
| oguzkoroglu | !cases Turkey | 13:50 |
| pale_moon22kk | Anyone else worried on global temperature increase duel global dimming effect wearing down due pandemic? | 13:51 |
| contingo | but it goes to show, if you're an entity in the British Isles, and you have the resources and geographical advantage of being able to implement strict suppression protocols and high level community testing, then you're already doing that, and the mainland is lagging not because it should have different policy, but because it can't, or can't manage to implement yet | 13:52 |
| contingo | RougeR I'm not that familiar with Jersey, was it not the main beach by harbor? | 13:54 |
| Jigsy | ... | 13:54 |
| Jigsy | When I woke up this morning, there were 200,000 cases. | 13:54 |
| Jigsy | Now it's 203,000... | 13:54 |
| Jigsy | In around four hours or so? | 13:55 |
| RougeR | contingo: yeah I gues you could call it main beach | 13:56 |
| RougeR | You are right. | 13:56 |
| RougeR | Main harbour in st.helier | 13:56 |
| RougeR | You can see Elizabeth castle in the background | 13:56 |
| xrogaan | Jigsy: It'll continue to rise until the effect of the lockdown are effective. | 13:56 |
| RougeR | I feel much better having sat on the beach for an hour and having had a walk | 13:56 |
| xrogaan | count a week or two. | 13:56 |
| contingo | nice | 13:56 |
| sneep | https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/5dm4mb/people-are-trying-to-make-diy-ventilators-to-meet-coronavirus-demand | 13:56 |
| contingo | my favorite is rocky shore. exploring tide pools | 13:57 |
| rajrajraj | hi | 13:57 |
| pale_moon22kk | @RourgeR possibly a silly question but in case you have watched HBO show The Sopranos, doesn't it feel weird to recognize places from such popular show since you are from New Jersey? | 13:57 |
| contingo | lol | 13:58 |
| contingo | RougeR is not from the Jersey Shore | 13:58 |
| aradesh | Jigsy: on the planet? | 14:00 |
| Jigsy | Yeah. | 14:00 |
| aradesh | probably many more in reality | 14:00 |
| rajrajraj | you have gotta be kidding me | 14:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:57 UTC: Celebrities are 'touring' social media to counter coronavirus isolation and gig cancellations: John Legend and Coldplay's Chris Martin are among musicians touring online to boost morale and replace planned performances as the coronavirus outbreak wreaks havoc on the entertainment industry. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/JrRs3s | 14:01 |
| aradesh | it's kind of crazy how, the researchers who modeled the spread of the virus in the UK reckon that if we implement the governments suggested measures, we'll only have 20,000 deaths rather than 250,000 | 14:02 |
| aradesh | "only" | 14:02 |
| aradesh | slightly worrying... | 14:02 |
| aradesh | especaially given how badly people are implementing them | 14:02 |
| rajrajraj | only | 14:02 |
| contingo | but that's with maintaining suppression measures for 18 months | 14:03 |
| aradesh | contingo: i reckon this thing could go on for longer even than that | 14:03 |
| aradesh | the longer it's out there, and in larger quantity, the higher chance it'll mutate and become a new problem. | 14:03 |
| RougeR | Hahaha contingo pale_moon22kk | 14:03 |
| RougeR | pale_moon22kk: contingo | 14:04 |
| RougeR | We are however where Bergerac was filmed! | 14:04 |
| contingo | that was the epidemiologists' estimate, with error bars attached | 14:04 |
| contingo | there are a lot of unknowns w.r.t. duration | 14:04 |
| rajrajraj | unknown | 14:04 |
| contingo | I'm not listening to any "I reckons" at the moment | 14:04 |
| aradesh | contingo: i mean, it's a possibility that* | 14:04 |
| rajrajraj | thats it | 14:04 |
| aradesh | because we just don't know | 14:04 |
| rajrajraj | we really dont | 14:05 |
| rajrajraj | do we | 14:05 |
| contingo | neither do we have zero information | 14:05 |
| aradesh | hard to imagine what kind of world we'll be living in, when we have say, some countries that have managed to tackle the problem, and have got over it, and others where it has spread like wild, with new mutated variations that the rest of the world don't want | 14:05 |
| aradesh | it could be the end of easy people movement as we've known it for a long time | 14:06 |
| contingo | I'm more of a one day at a time person | 14:06 |
| contingo | I'm sort of at an interesting, neutral point in life personally. On my messaging apps my friends are all having their own intense psychodramas related to this that are highly correlated by age group | 14:07 |
| tinwhiskers | contingo: what's the trend by age? | 14:09 |
| aradesh | contingo: neutral point in life? how so? | 14:10 |
| aradesh | i'm hoping that this pandemic causes house prices to drop | 14:11 |
| contingo | itvery broadly speaking the elderly ones are fearful for their lives in an immediate sense, the university-age ones are fearful for their livelihoods and what happens afterwards (but also worried about suceptible loved ones), and the middle ones are something in between. And more neurotic friends of all ages are latching onto all kinds | 14:11 |
| contingo | of speculative side issues as sources of huge concern | 14:12 |
| contingo | -it | 14:12 |
| contingo | I mean, it makes sense | 14:12 |
| rajrajraj | does it | 14:13 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah | 14:13 |
| contingo | yeah | 14:13 |
| azy | https://youtu.be/urPjrPBKZy4?t=746 that's interesting @ prisoners | 14:13 |
| tinwhiskers | aradesh: house prices will drop. I was hoping to sell soon so this is bad news | 14:14 |
| tinwhiskers | I might need to do that asap | 14:14 |
| aradesh | well | 14:15 |
| tinwhiskers | But people are delaying buying right now due to uncertainty so it's bad | 14:15 |
| aradesh | if you sell, and then buy another house... the other house would have dropped in price too | 14:15 |
| rajrajraj | well is all | 14:15 |
| tinwhiskers | aradesh: yeah, but I was planning to move out of property | 14:15 |
| aradesh | it has been my plan to buy a house sometime this decade, so i may wish to try to time it optimally | 14:16 |
| rajrajraj | tinwhiskers: dont move | 14:16 |
| aradesh | could mean seeking to buy earlier than i had originally planned | 14:16 |
| pale_moon22kk | Don't panic sell, wait for few years. Prices recovered after 2008 crash | 14:16 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes, possibly | 14:16 |
| tinwhiskers | pale_moon22kk: oh prices will recover for sure, but I was already planning to get out | 14:17 |
| tinwhiskers | This is an unfortunate road bump | 14:17 |
| aradesh | but say you have a house worth 200,000 and instead you want to move to a house worth 400,000 but house prices drop by 50%, then you only need an extra 100,000 to afford your new house, rather than the original 200,000 | 14:17 |
| tinwhiskers | Sure you buy in the same market you sell in, but only if you plan to buy another property | 14:18 |
| aradesh | what would you do instead? | 14:18 |
| aradesh | do you have multiple properties? | 14:18 |
| tinwhiskers | I was planning to move into investments with shorter return times. | 14:19 |
| aradesh | it's gonna be difficult for restaurants and their landlords isn't it? restaurant will close, so they can't afford to pay rent. landlord will want to evict them, but they won't find anyone else wanting to take the building instead... so sticky situation for both parties | 14:19 |
| tinwhiskers | Capital gains after nice in the long term but rental is a pretty low income in the meantime | 14:20 |
| tinwhiskers | *are nice | 14:20 |
| tinwhiskers | aradesh: i think that applies to more than just restaurants; most businesses | 14:21 |
| pale_moon22kk | The supply chain has been slowed heavily due custom check at the every single border in Europe | 14:21 |
| aradesh | makes all the project fear warnings about brexit pale in comparison | 14:22 |
| aradesh | really puts it in perspective | 14:22 |
| tinwhiskers | True that | 14:23 |
| pale_moon22kk | Well said | 14:23 |
| contingo | in more normal times I eat out a lot. I'm getting a lot of emails along the lines of this one that just arrived: "Well, we tried. Yesterday evening, just as you all were coming down to support us and have a last fiesta, we received word businesses on Oxford Street were being shut down one by one. Therefore the most difficult decision of our career was made for us... We await news of the relief for their wages and our own cost cuts, that will help | 14:23 |
| contingo | us all survive." | 14:23 |
| contingo | (no I was not going to go attend their "last fiesta", I'm just on their marketing list) | 14:23 |
| tinwhiskers | :-( | 14:23 |
| tinwhiskers | Gonna be some hard times ahead | 14:23 |
| aradesh | contingo: context? what kind of businesses on oxford street? and what last fiestas do they mean? | 14:24 |
| aradesh | restaurants? | 14:24 |
| aradesh | it's pretty crazy how so many businesses run without the capacity to keep themselves afloat with zero income even for a few weeks | 14:24 |
| contingo | it's just a midmarket restaurant | 14:25 |
| python476 | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22615453 | 14:25 |
| python476 | covid projects looking for volunteers | 14:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:18 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Mnuchin warns of high unemployment, celebrities 'tour' social media — from WHO at 13:18: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qUPxQU | 14:25 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah, businesses here are starting to go out of business. We rely on tourists and everyone has cancelled. Some businesses have already spent the deposits too | 14:26 |
| mefistofeles | the music of the covid spike protein :P https://soundcloud.com/user-275864738/sonification-of-virus-spike?in=user-275864738/sets/protein-counterpoint | 14:27 |
| aradesh | gonna be a kind of harsh economic 'reset' | 14:27 |
| tinwhiskers | Cruise ships are banned. The whale operators have no clients, so the dive operations also have no clients, and the accommodation places are screwed. That's about all we have here. | 14:27 |
| tinwhiskers | Given the tourist season only lasts about 6 months starting next month and it'll have to get by on that income for a year, many places here are screwed. | 14:29 |
| tinwhiskers | I have to make a decision in the next few days whether to return home to New Zealand and walk away from this place for good too. | 14:31 |
| tinwhiskers | It kinda sucks | 14:31 |
| Atque | Is anyone from China? Did people hoard toilet paper? | 14:31 |
| Atque | tinwhiskers: Are you in Australia? | 14:32 |
| contingo | Restaurant sector in London is huge and a lot related domestic industry (e.g. fishery) depends on it a great deal | 14:32 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm in Tonga on a little island | 14:32 |
| contingo | tinwhiskers has the NZ foreign officeyet advised return of all citizens currently abroad? | 14:33 |
| tinwhiskers | contingo: yeah | 14:33 |
| AimHere | Atque, I don't think Chinese toilets use toilet paper, or at least not the same way | 14:33 |
| AimHere | They use a water jet method, IIRC | 14:33 |
| tinwhiskers | There's no health services here with mentioning so it's not safe here | 14:34 |
| tinwhiskers | I mean I can quarantine on the island for six months but it'll be very lonely | 14:34 |
| Atque | tinwhiskers: If you are under 70, your chance of death is very low even if you get the virus. | 14:34 |
| tinwhiskers | I have a lung condition right now so I have reason to be concerned | 14:35 |
| contingo | well that's all very sucky. A lot of people I know have had some nice plan or existing setup sabotaged by this already | 14:35 |
| xrogaan | Atque: I don't think they had time to prepare. | 14:36 |
| tinwhiskers | Returning to NZ is probably the right thing to so but that will be the end of my tropical island | 14:36 |
| AimHere | Atque, the chance rises if you don't have healthcare. | 14:36 |
| contingo | maybe you can work on a return one day | 14:36 |
| pale_moon22kk | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5955030/ | 14:36 |
| xrogaan | Atque: also, you should take the death risk in reverse: you're more likely to die if you are above 70. The risk is still present for the younger folks. | 14:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah, maybe | 14:37 |
| Atque | xrogaan: It is 0.02% for my age group I believe. | 14:37 |
| contingo | the risk of death also goes up a lot once hospital places are overwhelmed | 14:37 |
| xrogaan | Atque: "young don't die" is an idea spread by the media, who didn't have enough information and just chose to parrot whatever they had on hand. | 14:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Young certainly have a massive advantage | 14:38 |
| tinwhiskers | But sure, some still die | 14:38 |
| Atque | xrogaan: The symptoms vary heavily. Wash your hands. Observe social distance. Please do not panic given the odds though of major issues. | 14:39 |
| Atque | xrogaan: I think it it is important for people to be practical, without the heavy emotional tole bearing on people. I can tell each of you you are unlikely to die from this. | 14:40 |
| pwr22 | What was the mortality rate looking like for >80 year olds? | 14:40 |
| tinwhiskers | 15% | 14:40 |
| AimHere | pwr22, something like 15% | 14:40 |
| xrogaan | Atque: https://nypost.com/2020/03/17/coronavirus-doctor-says-lung-scans-for-young-patients-were-nothing-short-of-terrifying/ | 14:40 |
| tinwhiskers | pwr22: with suitable care | 14:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:34 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Mnuchin warns of high unemployment, celebrities 'tour' social media — from WHO at 13:34: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qUPxQU | 14:41 |
| pale_moon22kk | Won't there bone loss and lung symptoms that will continue long after disease like there was in SARS during 2003. At least you will qualify for disability fund if you have that. | 14:41 |
| contingo | I don't look to the media for my statistics. Given available data, epidemiologists' current best estimate of infected people in my age group dying is 0.15%. But more like 5% require hospitalization (i.e., ventilator therapy), so if hospital places become unavailable, the fatality rate increases towards that percentage | 14:42 |
| tinwhiskers | In lombardy 30 % of cases are severe needing hospital care and there isn't sufficient care available so it's higher than 15% | 14:42 |
| contingo | yup | 14:42 |
| Atque | xrogaan: I know what the virus does to the lung issue. Still, I think people need to not panic. | 14:43 |
| xrogaan | the source cited in nypost is this, not the linked: https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/100824/belgian-doctor-says-young-coronavirus-patients-are-also-getting-severely-ill/ | 14:43 |
| mefistofeles | xrogaan: yes, there are many young cases with sever symtoms | 14:44 |
| mefistofeles | symptoms* | 14:44 |
| Atque | xrogaan: I think the practical message is an ethical one. Do what you can to protect yourself. Do not hoard goods, because it harms other. If you are sick, do not spread it to others etc. There is no point suffering terror over the virus though I reckon. | 14:44 |
| xrogaan | Atque: it means that the younger folks *might* survive, but they will live the rest of their lives in a diminished state. | 14:44 |
| Atque | xrogaan: It is not clear if it is permanent. | 14:45 |
| xrogaan | So no, young people aren't "immune" to the effects of the disease. | 14:45 |
| mefistofeles | ı | 14:45 |
| mefistofeles | ↑↑ | 14:45 |
| spacious[m] | xrogaan: are there any other news sources of that topic than NY Post? | 14:45 |
| pale_moon22kk | Anyone here wears a gas mask or a hazmat in public? | 14:45 |
| xrogaan | I mean, when the doctors go "WTF is this?", it is cause for concern. | 14:46 |
| rajrajraj | ↑↑ | 14:46 |
| python476 | do you know if doctors on different countries have confs or facetime or whatever ? | 14:46 |
| pale_moon22kk | Most doctors haven't even treated a SARS or MERS patient so "WTF is this" reaction isn't really unexpected. | 14:46 |
| dTal | pale_moon22kk: I wear a full face respirator now | 14:48 |
| contingo | it's not clear at all what percentage of overall infected individuals are affected by permanent lung issues, so let's not fearmonger yet. Individual doctors are not epidemiologists and the individual cases they encounter in their particular hospital will lead them to various biases just as in other fields of practice | 14:48 |
| Atque | pale_moon22kk: There are many causes of bacterial and viral phenomena. | 14:48 |
| dTal | (not a "gas mask", it only filters small particulates) | 14:48 |
| Atque | dTal: Do you have CORVID-19? | 14:48 |
| rajrajraj | CoViD | 14:48 |
| rajrajraj | 19 | 14:48 |
| rajrajraj | spell it right pal | 14:48 |
| dTal | No, and that's a strange reaction | 14:48 |
| dTal | why would my decision to wear a respirator imply that I was infected? | 14:49 |
| rajrajraj | because | 14:49 |
| dTal | If I were infected I wouldn't even leave the house | 14:49 |
| xrogaan | Atque: the aim isn't to spread panic, it is to inform. You need to be conscious of the risks you are faced with, that your close ones are faced with, and take appropriate precautions. I believe that providing a false sense of safety is a disservice to the society as a whole. | 14:50 |
| pale_moon22kk | https://i.redd.it/abh35e61yrd41.jpg | 14:50 |
| spacious[m] | lol | 14:51 |
| contingo | there are concerning reports of various post-viral conditions but let's not make out it's a foregone conclusion a whole generation is facing permanent debilitating lung issues. if you want to inform people in order to elicit their concern, inform them that big questions like these remain to be resolved | 14:51 |
| xrogaan | pale_moon22kk: at the same time, they can't own a home or a car because the prices are so high and the salaries are so low. | 14:51 |
| Atque | xrogaan: Before summer's end, 100,000s of American, Europeans and others will suffer the virus. Some will die. It is terrible, but misery cannot solve it unfortunately. | 14:52 |
| pale_moon22kk | xrogaan what demographic you are referring to? | 14:52 |
| rajrajraj | pale_moon22kk: this is it | 14:52 |
| rajrajraj | world is gonna die | 14:52 |
| xrogaan | The miserably depressed. | 14:54 |
| dTal | Atque: try millions | 14:54 |
| AimHere | We're at nearly 200,000 right now | 14:54 |
| dTal | in the next few weeks, not by summers end | 14:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:50 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Japanese flu drug could be effective treatment, Scotland to close schools — from WHO at 13:50: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qUPxQU | 14:54 |
| AimHere | And doubling in a month | 14:54 |
| AimHere | And that's a wild underestimate | 14:55 |
| bin_bash | millions will die | 14:55 |
| dTal | doubling time outside of China is approx 6 days | 14:55 |
| dTal | locally uncontained, 2 days | 14:55 |
| AimHere | Actually doubling time is 13 days, sorry | 14:55 |
| AimHere | I misread the graph I was looking at | 14:56 |
| dTal | AimHere: our numbers disagree | 14:56 |
| dTal | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-cases/#case-tot-outchina | 14:56 |
| dTal | this graph shows a 6 day doubling | 14:56 |
| AimHere | I'm including China | 14:57 |
| AimHere | And I'm using Worldometers | 14:57 |
| Atque | dTal: Australia has 454 cases. It is going up by about 15% per day. In four weeks, that's 50 times. | 14:57 |
| dTal | AimHere: don't include China, that unfairly dilutes the numbers | 14:57 |
| AimHere | I think the point is made, either way | 14:58 |
| Atque | dTal: However, countries are enacting heavy restrictions to limit the virus' movement. Do you think they are ineffective. | 14:58 |
| dTal | No, extreme isolation and good compliance are effective at slowing the spread, as china shows | 14:58 |
| dTal | but it's unsustainable, China will have a second wave I predict | 14:59 |
| xrogaan | We'll know in a week or two anyhow. | 14:59 |
| rajrajraj | no way | 14:59 |
| Atque | dTal: Liberal democracies seem weak in this situation hey. | 14:59 |
| Atque | dTal: Iran, China etc. have more options and more compliant people I suspect than Europe, the United States, Australia etc. | 15:00 |
| dTal | The situation hasn't played out yet though | 15:00 |
| dTal | China has very low social trust, and that will bite them in the ass | 15:00 |
| xrogaan | Are you kidding? Iran's behavior is analog to running around, fingers in ears, yelling "la la la". | 15:00 |
| dTal | *voluntary* compliance will be low in China | 15:00 |
| spacious[m] | It's more effective in countries where the people 'move as one' | 15:01 |
| spacious[m] | effective =/= better or more advanced though | 15:01 |
| xrogaan | To support dTal's point is this study: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/mrc-global-infectious-disease-analysis/news--wuhan-coronavirus/ | 15:01 |
| Atque | dTal: I think govermment control will be less effective in the west than China. | 15:02 |
| bin_bash | what do you guys think about the theory that china released covid-19 to distract from whats happening in hong kong? i think it's a fun one to think about, but that theyre not competent enough to pull it off. | 15:03 |
| xrogaan | Atque: so long as the population do not reach heard immunity (enough members being immune), there will be a second wave. | 15:03 |
| AimHere | bin_bash, I prefer the one where it's an alien space plague designed to weaken mankind before the martians invade | 15:03 |
| xrogaan | whether you're the Chinese government or a western democracy, that fact won't change. | 15:03 |
| Atque | bin_bash: I think it is rubbish. It is a virus. It jumped from a zoonosis to human transmission. People have no prior exposure to it, so transmission is rapid. | 15:04 |
| Atque | bin_bash: This cost China hugely. Their leaders have lost political capital. Their finances are worse than before. Everything is worse. It has not stablished Hong Kong at all. | 15:05 |
| xrogaan | We didn't have any exposure to SARS and MERS either. In this case it spread rapidly because of its characteristics, basically like a flu. | 15:05 |
| Atque | bin_bash: There is no conspiracy. It is just part of the state of affairs in the world in which we live as human being (whether Briton, Chinese etc.). | 15:05 |
| spacious[m] | bin_bash: I don't think it's known how the virus started.. so any story could be told to explain its origin and some people would believe it. Doesn't necessarily make it fact though. | 15:06 |
| bin_bash | no of course it doesn't, more just food for thought | 15:06 |
| bin_bash | AimHere: lol haven't heard that one, great though. I DID see there was thought it came from a meteorite | 15:06 |
| Atque | xrogaan: I think it will become endemic. | 15:07 |
| spacious[m] | Handy reference for this: | 15:07 |
| spacious[m] | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misinformation_related_to_the_2019%E2%80%9320_coronavirus_pandemic | 15:07 |
| xrogaan | Atque: isn't it already endemic? | 15:08 |
| contingo | if you want food for thought study the phylogenetics papers on the genealogical affinities of the virus in the primary scientific literature | 15:08 |
| contingo | that will put you in a better position to appraise the ridiculousness vs reasonableness of various claims about its origins | 15:08 |
| bin_bash | Atque: tbh though there are a lot fo features to it that don't necessarily look natural. endo->ecto->endo, similarities to HIV and HPV. I think, personally, the most likely is it was worked on in a lab and it accidentally got out due to contamination/incompetence. The fact that China is now trying to say the US brought the virus in only highlights that possibility further. Anything to cover their own | 15:08 |
| bin_bash | asses. And the moronic Trump admin is only making it worse. | 15:08 |
| Atque | xrogaan: Nah, I think it is epidemic still. | 15:08 |
| xrogaan | What? | 15:09 |
| bin_bash | no it's not already endemic | 15:09 |
| spacious[m] | Trump has no idea what he's doing and talks shit repeatedly enough to have people think he's got a grip | 15:09 |
| xrogaan | bin_bash: The Chinese government loves pointing the finger elsewhere to blame anything or anybody but themselves. That's how they function. | 15:10 |
| Atque | bin_bash: It is similar to SARS, MERS etc. It's genome is similar to bar coronaviruses. It looks like it jump as an enzootic disease and is perfectly natural. | 15:10 |
| xrogaan | endemic where? | 15:10 |
| Atque | bin_bash: It is not even the first case of this in recent years. SARS, MERS etc. were similar. | 15:10 |
| bin_bash | snake proteins are very very unusual | 15:10 |
| spacious[m] | xrogaan: much like Trump | 15:10 |
| Atque | bin_bash: Is there any research supporting an origin in engineering? | 15:12 |
| Atque | bin_bash: Scientists from many countries seem to be saying it originated in bats or another mammal and is nothing unusual genetically. | 15:13 |
| bin_bash | I only have comments from people who are familiar with the field, there's been alot of media hullaballoo saying "it's definitely not!" but without providing much proof one way or another | 15:13 |
| xrogaan | endemic is relative to a location, right? So where is it not endemic? | 15:13 |
| bin_bash | i did see a study that discussed it and i'm looking for it now | 15:14 |
| bin_bash | it's not endemic anywhere xrogaan | 15:14 |
| xrogaan | Of course it is, it's carried by the local population around the globe. https://nextstrain.org/ncov | 15:15 |
| Atque | xrogaan: Epidemics (which include pandemics) are outbreaks without clear chronic community transmission. Endemics are balanced community transmissions that have some stability over a long period of time. | 15:15 |
| xrogaan | Or maybe I don't understand what endemism means | 15:15 |
| bin_bash | i think you don't know what it means. it means that disease is recurring and regularly found in a population. | 15:16 |
| Atque | Hmm, I just wish they'd fix it. Can someone make progress on that front. | 15:16 |
| Atque | xrogaan: Like chickenpox is endemic. It transmits stable within the community (although it may stop doing so because of the vaccine). | 15:17 |
| xrogaan | Last I heard, authorities tried to lift confinement in a city in China but got back into it the same day. | 15:17 |
| bin_bash | it's possible, even likely, that this will become endemic like other respiratory infections, but SARS did not become endemic, MERS did not, etc. | 15:17 |
| xrogaan | So to know if it is endemic we need to wait a year or so? To get a pattern? | 15:18 |
| sneep | Longer | 15:18 |
| Atque | bin_bash: Yeah, and the transmission for endemics are people. For example, rabies is enzootic, and affects some people recurringly, but the transmission is from animals. | 15:19 |
| aradesh | looking at italy, the gradient of the logarithm of their deaths is slowing down, which is good. | 15:19 |
| aradesh | it means their measures are having some effect | 15:19 |
| Jigsy | I've heard the Olympics have been cancelled. | 15:20 |
| Atque | Jigsy: They may hold and televise it. | 15:20 |
| Jigsy | How would atheletes get to Japan, though? | 15:20 |
| Jigsy | Esp. ones in locked down countries? | 15:20 |
| aradesh | Jigsy: source? | 15:21 |
| Atque | Jigsy: In Australia, people are sportheads. There has been games in stadiums with no spectators, but they broadcast it. | 15:21 |
| aradesh | Jigsy: i mean it's quite likely, or at least a postponement, but where did you hear this? | 15:21 |
| Jigsy | My only source is: | 15:21 |
| Jigsy | "Japan’s deputy prime minister, Taro Aso, said holding the Tokyo Olympics “would not make sense” if countries could not send their athletes." | 15:21 |
| Jigsy | From the Guardian. | 15:21 |
| aradesh | ah. | 15:21 |
| aradesh | no official cancelling yet though. | 15:21 |
| aradesh | they could try postponing it to later in the year... poor japan. i bet they've spent billions on their olympics. | 15:21 |
| Atque | aradesh: They should hold it. Japanese athletes might get lots of gold medals. | 15:22 |
| aradesh | maybe the IOC will allow them to hold it in 2021 or something? | 15:22 |
| aradesh | Atque: lol | 15:22 |
| xrogaan | https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/status/1239245112733044736 | 15:22 |
| bin_bash | Atque: no, rabies is endemic to some areas and not others. | 15:22 |
| bin_bash | zoonotic diseases can be endemic as well | 15:23 |
| bin_bash | rabies, parvo, dystemper | 15:23 |
| sneep | Not holding the Olympics would impact morale quite a bit I think | 15:24 |
| sneep | It's too early to say anyway | 15:24 |
| aradesh | i suppose they could test every athlete before flying them in, and then bring them and keep them in the village, and don't expose them to the public? | 15:24 |
| sneep | Like the Cannes film festival... They'll announce if it's canceled in April or something | 15:24 |
| aradesh | i mean, it would be expensive, but plausible | 15:24 |
| Atque | Couldn't they just fly them in, do 14 days isolation and go from there. | 15:25 |
| aradesh | Atque: or jsut like... enough isolation until their coronavirus test comes back | 15:25 |
| aradesh | and if negative, let them into the olympic village | 15:25 |
| aradesh | should imagien they'll have fast tests by then | 15:25 |
| contingo | bin_bash: rabies is "endemic" in some areas with respect to non-human reservoir species. The issue here is human endemism | 15:26 |
| Atque | contingo: Yeah, we usually that "enzootic". | 15:27 |
| contingo | yeah | 15:27 |
| contingo | do you work in virology? | 15:27 |
| mirsal | or just cancel the thing already | 15:28 |
| contingo | I don't know whether to read that as "we, the scientifically literate" or "we, the research community" :) | 15:28 |
| Atque | Public policy | 15:28 |
| contingo | tough job | 15:29 |
| aradesh | there's just as much speculation and variation in different ideas amongst the research community too | 15:29 |
| Atque | contingo: Nope | 15:29 |
| sneep | Atque is Donald Trump :o | 15:29 |
| contingo | pleasant job? | 15:30 |
| Atque | sneep: I'm Australian!!! | 15:30 |
| Atque | Plus, my skin is not orange!!!!!!! | 15:30 |
| contingo | aradesh, that's one of the vaguest statements I've read today. Can you give some examples? | 15:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 14:22 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Coronavirus: Scientist who pushed Trump on COVID-19 has symptoms - Business Insider — from WHO at 14:22: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/M1amiy | 15:31 |
| aradesh | just going on how varied the 'expert advice' has been over the last few weeks | 15:31 |
| aradesh | and what the expert advice on actions to be taken by countries is | 15:31 |
| bin_bash | Atque: who says that? The CDC doesn't, the WHO doesn't, the FDA doesn't... so who do? | 15:32 |
| xrogaan | What puzzle me a lot is reports that some people do not get sick. | 15:32 |
| bin_bash | does** | 15:32 |
| sneep | Japan's advice has been pretty consistent | 15:32 |
| Atque | bin_bash: Says what? | 15:32 |
| aradesh | well the UK obviously had different expert advice until recently | 15:32 |
| aradesh | as they suddenly had a U-turn in policy | 15:32 |
| xrogaan | aradesh: you mean the not peer reviewed "advice" to let people die? | 15:33 |
| bin_bash | Atque: who says "enzootic" | 15:33 |
| Atque | I am not the Centre for Disease Control has said why Trump's skin is orange. I would be interested to know. | 15:33 |
| aradesh | also you're gonna get subjective difference in the opinions of researchers. you'll get some researchers who want to be super cautious, and other researchers who will think that improving the immune system of the human race is a good thing, and this will effect what kind of things they come out with | 15:33 |
| xrogaan | Atque: Could it be tan lotions? Lots and lots of tan lotions. | 15:33 |
| contingo | disparities between "expert advice" transmitted via mass media does equate to different viewpoints at the politically-informed level of social medicine and public health about the correct response. There | 15:34 |
| aradesh | and no researchers know if the virus will mutate at any point or not | 15:34 |
| Atque | bin_bash: Epidemiology textbooks distinguish endemic, epidemic, epizootic and enzootic. | 15:34 |
| contingo | *there is a whole bunch of hard science on various aspects of the underlying biology of the virus that isn't so contentious at all | 15:34 |
| aradesh | because there is a lot of unknowns about the situation, there is still going to eb a lot of variance amongst personal opinions of the scientists | 15:35 |
| contingo | aradesh: we are tracking mutations as they arise in quite fine detail so far | 15:35 |
| aradesh | anyone who has worked in research knows its like this... | 15:35 |
| bin_bash | please post your source Atque | 15:35 |
| Atque | bin_bash: Hendra, for example, we'd say would be "enzootic", but not "endemic". | 15:35 |
| bin_bash | because all the NIH studies i've read in the past say endemic | 15:35 |
| contingo | are you confusing the words "epidemic" and "endemic" ?? | 15:36 |
| bin_bash | i'm not, no | 15:36 |
| aradesh | in research you always get that crazy guy who has completely different opinion to the rest of the people in the department :D | 15:36 |
| yuriwho | it is reasonable likely the virus will become endemic, | 15:36 |
| yuriwho | thats why the vaccine is so important | 15:37 |
| figuinhas | guys | 15:37 |
| figuinhas | I think I might be infected | 15:37 |
| Atque | bin_bash: I studied years and years, but see Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endemic_(epidemiology)#cite_note-1 | 15:37 |
| contingo | aradesh hence the whole scientific method, which I think you're characterizing in a very clumsy way | 15:37 |
| bin_bash | found the article i was thinking of: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4400070/ | 15:37 |
| figuinhas | yesterday I started having a very weak cough | 15:37 |
| bin_bash | brb meeting | 15:37 |
| figuinhas | now it is getting consistent | 15:38 |
| Atque | bin_bash: An endemic depends on external inputs. The infection maintains itself as a baseline level within the community. This is not the case for rabies etc., which result from interactions with infected dogs, bats etc. | 15:38 |
| aradesh | contingo: i don't think so. of course you can do science, you can test hte virus, run models. but outside of what we know so far there are a lot of unknowns. now the scientists when they give advice will be using their instinct to fill in the unknowns the best they can. also their own personal biases will creep in. how much one wants to sacrifice more people getting the virus, vs disruption, is going to | 15:39 |
| aradesh | affect what advice is given. | 15:39 |
| Atque | bin_bash: Or in Australia, Hendra is a good example. | 15:39 |
| figuinhas | but still very weak | 15:39 |
| aradesh | even if you have 100% perfect information, you still have the subjective decision of what is the optimal strategy to take | 15:39 |
| aradesh | and that depends how much you weigh spread of disease vs disruption to economy | 15:39 |
| yuriwho | https://www.statnews.com/2020/02/04/two-scenarios-if-new-coronavirus-isnt-contained/ | 15:40 |
| aradesh | those ideas are going to affect any advice given by anyone | 15:40 |
| yuriwho | ^^ statnews is a highly credible source of accurate information | 15:41 |
| aradesh | i'm sure you could find virologists who think, "just carry on like normal. we'll adapt" and others who are like, "we must try 10 times as hard to contain it" | 15:41 |
| aradesh | that doesn't mean one of them knows more than the other. it's just where the subjective opinions creep in | 15:41 |
| yuriwho | are desh:no you wont | 15:41 |
| yuriwho | aradesh | 15:42 |
| contingo | aradesh you're confusing and conflating the underlying science with decisions and communications on public health policy, as if both operate similarly and enjoy an equal level of dispute in all respects. At the modelling level, knowledge is regarded as probabilistic in nature, and outcomes and estimates have associated statistical confidences | 15:42 |
| aradesh | that depends on what we mean by "the opinions of the researchers" then doesn't it | 15:43 |
| contingo | what ends up getting decided, on any given day, from that point onwards and communicated by "experts" on mass media is a different set of considerations | 15:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:40 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Japanese flu drug could be effective treatment, Scotland to close schools — from WHO at 14:40: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qUPxQU | 15:43 |
| yuriwho | I also recommend that people listen to the This Week in Virology podcast for accurate information from virologists (found here: http://www.microbe.tv/twiv/ ) | 15:43 |
| aradesh | which i'll stand by my fairly safe assertion, that there'll be enormous variations in them, and they'll speculate completely different outcomes and have different ideas on how it should be handled | 15:43 |
| contingo | aradesh, so you see no value into scientific enquiry into the biology of the virus? | 15:43 |
| aradesh | of course i do | 15:44 |
| yuriwho | aradesh please stop spreading FUD | 15:44 |
| contingo | I'm disengaging with you aradesh on the basis of incoherency of position XD | 15:44 |
| aradesh | my point is the "are you a virologist?" isn't really gonna help a conversation, even if the answer is 'yes'. | 15:44 |
| duracrisis | %data Canada | 15:44 |
| contingo | but nothing personal | 15:44 |
| Brainstorm | duracrisis: In all areas, Canada, there are 598 cases, 8 deaths (1.3% of cases), 12 recoveries as of March 18, 14:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. | 15:44 |
| aradesh | because it won't suddenly make someones speculations more valid | 15:45 |
| aradesh | there are things we can know very precise things about, and there are things we can speculate on. the things we chat about here usually fall into the latter :P | 15:46 |
| bin_bash | ok back Atque thanks for the link, I learned something new :) | 15:49 |
| aradesh | i don't think i have an incoherent position. the point is, most of the time we chat about things like, "how is this going to effect our lives?" "how many people will die in the long term?" "how long will it go on for?" these questions depend on so many unknowns, the researchers won't know either. so questions of, "are they just a scientist, or are they a virologist?" all the time, isn't going to really | 15:50 |
| aradesh | matter. | 15:50 |
| pwr22 | !cases united kingdom | 15:51 |
| aradesh | maybe i've not been able to express my opniion well, but i think i know what i mean :D | 15:51 |
| python476 | french perfume company is now producing hand gel https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ETUyPqWXsAM947J?format=jpg&name=900x900 | 15:52 |
| python476 | enjoy your luxury health product :) | 15:53 |
| bin_bash | Atque: rabies is endemic in some areas though (see my nih link above) | 15:53 |
| bin_bash | "Most industrialized countries have eliminated rabies from domestic dog populations. However, in the majority of developing countries, rabies remains endemic in domestic dog populations and poorly controlled [4]." | 15:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:50 UTC: Coronavirus UK cases: how many are in your area?: Latest figures from public health authorities on the spread of Covid-19 in the United Kingdom. Find out how many local confirmed cases have been reported near you — from WHO at 14:50: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/hNsrkl | 15:55 |
| euod[m] | it's pretty clear that there's an absurd amount of under reporting. | 15:56 |
| euod[m] | if, in my very small social circle, know someone who isn't on the offical numbers because they got tested at a private hospital, then there's a lot more of that going on. | 15:56 |
| aradesh | contingo: and hey, maybe pressing me for answers helps me figure out what my position actually is! don't be such a spoil sport :P not everyone has completely worked out their full consistent position before they begin throwing ideas out. | 15:58 |
| aradesh | hmm. i should get a thermometer | 15:59 |
| aradesh | i have no means to detect if i have a fever or not. | 15:59 |
| HeXiLeD | %data canada | 16:00 |
| Brainstorm | HeXiLeD: In all areas, Canada, there are 598 cases, 8 deaths (1.3% of cases), 12 recoveries as of March 18, 14:38Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. | 16:00 |
| euod[m] | you're a bit late on that front. | 16:00 |
| euod[m] | good luck finding anywhere that will sell you a thermometer. | 16:02 |
| euod[m] | I can't find 3% milk, let alone anything specific like that :P | 16:03 |
| contingo | aradesh: scrolling up that is a lot clearer. Opinions on how far away widespread availability of effective therapies is, and opinion on what balance we should strike between suffering and death from virus vs. economic hardship, varies a lot. But we still look to science for best estimates of, given a particular strategy, what are likely outcomes. People argue over outcome preference and possibility | 16:05 |
| contingo | bin_bash: as I explained earlier. That's endemism in dogs, that transmits in isolated clusters to humans. With this virus we are fearing endemism in humans. | 16:06 |
| bin_bash | contingo: I know that. That's not relevant to anything I was saying. | 16:07 |
| contingo | oh, I'm sorry | 16:07 |
| contingo | what were you saying? | 16:07 |
| bin_bash | no problem. | 16:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica at 15:02 UTC: Staff: US healthcare workers already hit by coronavirus, 2 in critical condition — from WHO at 15:02: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/AW5hFC | 16:07 |
| bin_bash | It was basically a semantic debate about endemic viruses in general populations, not just human populations | 16:08 |
| contingo | the word "endemic" is narrowly defined in epidemiology | 16:08 |
| LjL | <aradesh> hmm. i should get a thermometer ← yes, i'd say it's pretty silly right now for anyone to lack a thermometer :P | 16:13 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: I'm one of those | 16:15 |
| aradesh | maybe i can order one | 16:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:15 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Ansa communica un Vertice Conte-Ministri al palazzo Chigi. — from WHO at 15:15: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/v0TKAK | 16:19 |
| LjL | well, it's not entirely unlikely that laws will require you at some point to stay inside if you're running a fever. if you don't *know* you are, that might be an issue. | 16:20 |
| bin_bash | Yes; like i said, the NIH uses it for zoonotic diseases as well, as evidenced by the NIH article posted above. The WHO does also, as does the CDC. I've seen numerous writings referencing endemic zoonoses, but I'm glad to have learned the new term as it broadens my vocabulary and ability to find information :D | 16:21 |
| sneep | aradesh: Maybe your parents have a couple spare ones? | 16:26 |
| sneep | I'm actually impressed with myself for having one! | 16:27 |
| jae49[m] | !cases US | 16:27 |
| bin_bash | Have you guys ever played Pandemic or Plague Inc | 16:28 |
| aradesh | sneep: don't think they have any either! | 16:30 |
| mefistofeles | I've seen those, bin_bash | 16:30 |
| aradesh | we used to have one in the house when i was a child though | 16:30 |
| HeXiLeD | we may be going to play it soon regardless bin_bash | 16:30 |
| bin_bash | well anyone who's played them knows that this current pandemic is going pretty much against the virus | 16:31 |
| farn | well, we get to be NPCs | 16:31 |
| bin_bash | which is good for humanity | 16:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:24 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Virus lives for days on surfaces, volunteer 3-D prints $11K valve for $1 — from WHO at 15:24: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qUPxQU | 16:31 |
| danielp3344 | !cases Maryland | 16:31 |
| mefistofeles | bin_bash: what do you mean? | 16:32 |
| bin_bash | public gatherings banned in places, flights banned, borders closed, people isolating, all good news for humanity | 16:33 |
| jiffe | seems JHU lost their US recovery data | 16:33 |
| bin_bash | madagascar closed ports before getting a case, that's basically proof that humanity won't die out | 16:33 |
| danielp3344 | ^ | 16:33 |
| mefistofeles | %data Maryland | 16:33 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In Maryland, US, there are 60 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 18, 15:18Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 16:33 |
| danielp3344 | %cases MD | 16:33 |
| Brainstorm | danielp3344: In Maryland, US, there are 60 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 18, 15:18Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 16:33 |
| pwr22 | jiffe: it'll probably come back eventually | 16:34 |
| IronY | bin_bash: Plauge INC confirmed | 16:34 |
| IronY | lol | 16:34 |
| danielp3344 | I guess we're just immortal | 16:34 |
| IronY | someone sneezed in Alska, Madagascar closes ports -- Plauge INC | 16:35 |
| euod[m] | the worst thing so far is that canada post isn’t delivering weed anymore. | 16:38 |
| danielp3344 | apparently there are actually 85 cases in maryland | 16:40 |
| danielp3344 | but I couldn't find death and recovery data | 16:40 |
| mefistofeles | danielp3344: JHU update daily, fwiw | 16:40 |
| danielp3344 | good to know | 16:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 15:42 UTC: /u/Isentrope: Tom Winter su Twitter: "BREAKING: New York State announces 1,008 new cases of Coronavirus. 1,339 cases total in New York City." — from WHO at 15:42: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/18JiNY | 16:44 |
| pagetelegram | I looked at the resource list. Is there anything someone can recommend for an online radio (audio) live broadcast on this issue apolitical? I am rebroadcasting CSPAN in my nursing home for residents and staff at 89.4 FM in Chicago....looking for more audio sources on this issue. Thanks. | 16:45 |
| aradesh | 1008 new cases! they must have done some serious testing? | 16:47 |
| LjL | aradesh, where, britain? | 16:47 |
| mefistofeles | yes, where? | 16:50 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: ah, NY it seems, according to Brainstorm feed | 16:50 |
| LjL | ah | 16:50 |
| LjL | i have a feeling US cases are widely underreported (and i'm clearly not the only one) | 16:51 |
| LjL | so perhaps they're doing serious testing, or perhaps just... finding a lot of positives | 16:51 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: btw, not sure if you noticed the new yorker article I put, I think it's worth putting it there in the pastebin | 16:51 |
| sneep | Maybe they did only 1008 tests | 16:53 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, too long and too detached from my local concerns to read it now. i'll take your word on it and put it there | 16:54 |
| zirpu[m] | if they did 1008 tests and they were all positive, that would a bit alarming. either the tests are flawed, or exponential growth. | 16:54 |
| JX7P | sister and her bf have quarantined themselves and so have I as i visited them at the weekend | 16:56 |
| JX7P | corona symptoms present | 16:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:51 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Cuomo says Trump is dispatching a floating hospital to New York state — from WHO at 15:51: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/vkuxrv | 16:56 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: thanks | 16:56 |
| mefistofeles | JX7P: present in them or in you? | 16:57 |
| JX7P | mefistofeles: they have quite a few symptoms. i only have a slightly sore throat and slightly swollen lymph nodes, we'll see if those progress | 16:58 |
| mefistofeles | JX7P: fever is one of those for them? | 16:58 |
| mefistofeles | also, where is this? (region/country) | 16:58 |
| JX7P | mefistofeles: yes, sister is an RN so i trust her judgment on it. scotland - i'm in aberdeen, she's in perth | 16:59 |
| mefistofeles | oh, how unfortunate... hope it all goes well | 17:00 |
| xrogaan | they started testing in the US? | 17:01 |
| bin_bash | LjL: yeah without a doubt they are. my guess is there are tens of thousands infected and spreading it | 17:01 |
| M_[m]4 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5jcjKPjoXE | 17:02 |
| LjL | Timvde, i forgot something else about the Matrix bot... it's not really even the bot's fault that you end up with & but it's the bridge's fault. the link is fine when viewed *on* Matrix :\ so the issue would be filed to the Matrix-IRC bridge if anything | 17:02 |
| DrJNo | I've had trouble confirming whether or not swolen lymph nodes is a symptom. Is that commonly accepted? | 17:02 |
| LjL | DrJNo, it's not a symptom i remember ever reading about | 17:03 |
| DrJNo | I had swolen lymph nodes about a week ago, but no other symptoms. I've been stuck at home regardless, but was just curious | 17:03 |
| Timvde | LjL: oh, lol | 17:03 |
| Timvde | LjL: so if you just type an & on Matrix, it will show as & for me? | 17:04 |
| xrogaan | The clear giveaway is the shortness of breath. | 17:04 |
| LjL | Timvde, might be more involved than that... within URLs you sometimes *want* those things to be converted | 17:04 |
| Timvde | true | 17:04 |
| LjL-Matrix | &/or not | 17:04 |
| Timvde | Although... Not like that | 17:04 |
| Timvde | You want it urlencoded | 17:05 |
| LjL | well, clearly, since it breaks the URL | 17:05 |
| Timvde | which would be %26 | 17:05 |
| aradesh | LjL: no, in new york | 17:05 |
| xrogaan | LjL: is it your bot? | 17:06 |
| LjL | xrogaan, no, it's provided by Matrix, it's one of its standard "add-on" type things | 17:07 |
| aradesh | LjL: well they went up to a few hundred to over 1000 in one go so, i presumed they must have upped their testing-game! | 17:07 |
| berndj | can anyone explain germany's stats to me? | 17:07 |
| LjL | Brainstorm is my bot | 17:07 |
| LjL | aradesh, you really should look at data on how many tests are performed... if they still provide them. since the CDC at some point just stopped. but now the CDC isn't doing most of the tests. unfortunately, this is not info that JHU or others provide on a worldwide basis | 17:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:05 UTC: (news): Cuomo: New York needs 110,000 hospital beds for coronavirus patients in 45 days and we only have 53,000 — from WHO at 16:05: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/vkuxrv | 17:08 |
| LjL | berndj, if you give me a million dollars i'll... still be unable to explain | 17:08 |
| xionbox[m] | <Brainstorm "New from r/WorldNews Live* at 15"> WOW!!! | 17:08 |
| berndj | LjL, they're not doing a whole lot more testing than their neighbours are they? | 17:09 |
| aradesh | LjL: oh i've never seen that data | 17:09 |
| berndj | i saw some @nntaleb speculation about cause of death reporting being different in germany, but it doesn't really pass the sniff test to me | 17:10 |
| bin_bash | i think the numbers are vastly underreported evrywhere | 17:11 |
| berndj | if a covid-19 case gets murdered, surely that isn't going to go under the "recovered" column after all? | 17:11 |
| berndj | bin_bash, deaths are kinda hard to disappear though | 17:11 |
| pagetelegram | Two ships, one off the NY shore will be ready soon, according to press conference rn | 17:11 |
| bin_bash | berndj: not really. do you think every patient has an autopsy? there are absolutely cases of sick people who are not diagnosed with covid but having covid and dying | 17:11 |
| berndj | bin_bash, those people aren't under the "cases" column at all | 17:12 |
| bin_bash | exactly | 17:12 |
| LjL | berndj, i'm not sure, i don't think so though. maybe i'd have a look at the age groups being found positive. one thing i was thinking yesterday is that one reason Italy may be doing so badly is that we're unable to isolate the elderly, because have a much larger part of the younger (but not so young) population living with their parents. that's not usual in Europe, and where it is kinda usual, such as in Spain, things are not looking too good either. now | 17:12 |
| LjL | maybe Germany will start having worse stats once it hits nursing homes for instance. | 17:12 |
| bin_bash | the actual cases are much higher in the US than what's reported | 17:12 |
| berndj | yes, so it doesn't explain how germany has 10k+ cases, but only 20-odd deaths | 17:12 |
| bin_bash | oops i missed part of the convo, that's my bad | 17:12 |
| euod[m] | bin_bash: very clearly under reported. seeing as I know of two in the US that aren't on the official list. | 17:12 |
| bin_bash | euod[m]: yeah my guess is tens of thousands | 17:13 |
| bin_bash | lots of silent spreaders | 17:13 |
| pagetelegram | all foreclosures and evictions are suspended for now in US, HUD. | 17:14 |
| berndj | LjL, yes, i was thinking along those lines too, germans seem to be more "nuclear" in their families. although you do get multiple generations of one family living in the same building, just not in the same apartment | 17:14 |
| LjL | berndj, another thing is that italy has 5000 ICU beds, while germany has 28000. as to hospital beds in general, it's 3.2 or somesuch in Italy per 1k residents, while it's 8 in Germany. but then, you'd still expect a large percentage of the ICU patients to die despite best efforts, at least that's the experience in China. | 17:14 |
| bin_bash | pagetelegram: not federally | 17:14 |
| LjL | berndj, also, among the 5000 ICU beds Italy has, most aren't really being used, because the cases are still majorly concentrated in Lombardy (despite clusters existing everywhere by now). in Germany it may be less concentrated, i think two southern states have a lot, but also one northern state quite a few | 17:15 |
| xrogaan | Might be useful for y'all: https://github.com/disposableidentities/healthcrisis/blob/master/README.md | 17:15 |
| LjL | berndj, you'd expect Lombard patients to be put into ICU beds in other regions if Lombardy doesn't have enough, but that's... not happening :\ | 17:15 |
| berndj | LjL, right, so germany's system isn't overwhelmed yet. that's got to be *part* of it, but even in comparison to other, less ground-zero like places, germany seems an outlier | 17:15 |
| LjL | berndj, yes, although you can compare it with South Korea, but open questions certainly remain. | 17:16 |
| berndj | ref for nntaleb speculation: https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/1240097655516168193 | 17:17 |
| python476 | warning, swans ahead | 17:17 |
| LjL | i had an article to show you but the site isn't loading :\ | 17:17 |
| python476 | haha, damn nntaleb | 17:18 |
| euod[m] | that's a lot of things at the moment. | 17:18 |
| python476 | he's right though.. countries are free to report what they want | 17:18 |
| euod[m] | some IXs have seen double or more throughput in the last day or so. | 17:18 |
| LjL | berndj, "If an Italian has severe pulmonary emphysema & dies while positive for Corona, Corona is the COD" ← this is actually not so clear. my current understanding is that the Civil Protection publishes a provisional number of deaths per day, but then those are reviewed by the ISS, maybe not quite immediately, and the ones where the COD can be attributed to something else are removed. i feel there's a bit of a fight between agencies about this. | 17:18 |
| python476 | CoViD--19 != coVID-19 != c.o.v.i.d-19 != covid[19] | 17:19 |
| LjL | berndj, if you can open this article, https://coronawiki.org/page/new-coronavirus-why-its-so-deadly-in-italy it brings Germany into the question after the middle part of it | 17:19 |
| berndj | i can load it | 17:20 |
| LjL | uhm maybe it's my internet that's acting up. i can't load twitter now :+ | 17:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:17 UTC: (news): Amazon sellers brace for layoffs and worse after coronavirus-related products get priority — from WHO at 16:17: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/jNSUkH | 17:20 |
| LjL | hopefully my internet won't be taken down by excess netflixing/pornhubbig | 17:20 |
| berndj | LjL, all your tubes are filled with premium pornhub | 17:21 |
| LjL | berndj, that's why i mentioned it :P | 17:21 |
| python476 | LjL: make a shared pool of vids on a shared local NAS | 17:21 |
| python476 | with neighbors | 17:21 |
| python476 | share-your-fetish.mybuilding.io | 17:21 |
| sneep | o-o | 17:21 |
| euod[m] | LjL: netflix isn't internet traffic, ever. | 17:21 |
| LjL | python476, should i dust off the old WEP-only router i was once using to provide free web to the square below my place? | 17:21 |
| euod[m] | LjL: they run cache boxes at every ISP, so it's last mile transit only. | 17:22 |
| LjL | (illegally, since in theory anyone providing internet access had to be able to identify its users) | 17:22 |
| python476 | bbl gonna sAVE my soul by jogging | 17:22 |
| LjL | euod[m], must be a hell of a lot of videos to keep cached | 17:22 |
| AimHere | https://twitter.com/700wlw/status/1240312230245171200?s=20 | 17:23 |
| AimHere | " Based on info from France and Italy...there may be disproportional number of infections among millenial groups. We haven't seen any significant mortality in the children, but we are concerned about early reports from Italy and France." | 17:23 |
| euod[m] | LjL: https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/appliances/ 100Gbit connectivity, 288 TB of storage at a peak of 36Gbit from the drives. | 17:24 |
| euod[m] | LjL: that's their SMALL server :) | 17:24 |
| azy | source: cincinnati news radio 700WLW CoMiNg In Ur EaRs | 17:25 |
| LjL | euod[m], that's some pretty high-performing net neutrality right there | 17:25 |
| euod[m] | huh? | 17:26 |
| euod[m] | it's nothing to do with that. it's about taking transit away from the core backbone and just making netflix last mile. | 17:26 |
| euod[m] | doesn't have anything to do with the ISP, other than lowering their transit costs. | 17:26 |
| euod[m] | google does the same. | 17:26 |
| LjL | euod[m], yes, point being another video streaming service with less money than netflix wouldn't be able to give ISPs things like that for free. anyway it was just a small jab | 17:27 |
| euod[m] | eh, for a small service trying not to completely demolish the internet exchanges is less of a concern :) | 17:27 |
| euod[m] | transit is actually pretty cheap, just a lot of people hosting things are absolutely retarded and use AWS or whatever. | 17:28 |
| LjL | AimHere, what "info" do they have about that? the only info that would indicate people between 20 and 40 being affected a lot more than thought are the test data from South Korea (which are more extensive than many other countries, and may have younger people self-selecting) and the fact the NL has half of its ICU patients being under 50 | 17:28 |
| yuriwho | it’s good to see the US and Canada finally starting to take this seriously. There is now a warning not to hoard prescription meds.... potential stortages | 17:28 |
| AimHere | LjL, this is the US's top coronavirus person, so she'd probably have that data, plus the test data from France and italy | 17:29 |
| aradesh | wow. they closed the canadian/USA border | 17:29 |
| yuriwho | anyone know the EU reports on millennials she mentioned? | 17:29 |
| AimHere | LjL, It's Debbie Birx, the middle-aged woman you see behind Trump at the Coronavirus press conferences | 17:29 |
| xrogaan | Anybody's heard of Dalberg Data Insights? | 17:29 |
| aradesh | crazy how the dow jones has gone down from ~30,000 to ~20,000 | 17:30 |
| xrogaan | yuriwho: "millennials" are dads and moms by now, nearing their 40's | 17:30 |
| euod[m] | aradesh: they did warn people earlier in the week it would happen. | 17:31 |
| yuriwho | xrogaan: I am well aware | 17:31 |
| LjL | AimHere, based on Italy's official information, https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronavirus/bollettino/Infografica_17marzo%20ENG.pdf the median age of patients has gone down slightly from 65 over time to 63 now. but is that enough to be concerning? | 17:31 |
| xrogaan | yuriwho: might be https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/RRA-sixth-update-Outbreak-of-novel-coronavirus-disease-2019-COVID-19.pdf | 17:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:28 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Virus lives for days on surfaces, Mnuchin vows to prevent unemployment spike — from WHO at 16:28: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qUPxQU | 17:32 |
| xrogaan | from 12th of March, could be too old | 17:34 |
| xrogaan | https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/all-reports-covid-19 | 17:34 |
| LjL | yuriwho, AimHere: this twice-weekly (i won't say "biweekly" because that's confusing) report https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronavirus/bollettino/Bollettino%20sorveglianza%20integrata%20COVID-19_16%20marzo%202020.pdf has patients (not deaths, positives in general) broken down by age groups, on page 5, table 1. you can change the filename to find previous ones of these reports, but they are only published on tuesdays and fridays. | 17:35 |
| LjL | actually i'm not sure it's so easy to derive previous filenames. | 17:36 |
| LjL | it's a bit annoying how they kinda hide previous reports, both the daily infographs, and these twice-weekly ones | 17:36 |
| AimHere | LjL, the only thing I can think of is she's adjusting the figures to cover the fact that these ones are skewed in favour of the hospitalized. Or Maybe there's some small random tests somewhere in France/Italy that is estimating the general population | 17:37 |
| LjL | AimHere, there is no random-sample testing in Italy, we don't have the resource right now. if anything, the testing criteria have changed to become progressively stricter, and right now, i think we're only really testing hospitalized cases that are already serious, as well as prisons and nursing homes where cases have been found | 17:38 |
| AimHere | LjL, Right. But there has to be more to Brix's statement than reading the public figures | 17:39 |
| yuriwho | I’m thinking they are saying this just to raise awareness in the 15-40 age group | 17:39 |
| LjL | AimHere, i guess, but aside from technical reasons (as in, data we don't have), there may also be political reasons, so i won't necessarily make much of it | 17:39 |
| yuriwho | I’m not seeing any spike in that group | 17:40 |
| LjL | right. what's pretty clear from, say, South Korea's data, is that younger age groups definitely get the virus, probably just as much as older groups, if not even more. they may have scant symptoms maybe, but they are contagious, and if you want to contain this or even slow it down, you must stop them gathering together, which they keep on doing in italy based on local reports i get | 17:40 |
| AimHere | WTF, UK death toll jumped +933 according to worldometers | 17:40 |
| AimHere | I hope that's a typo | 17:41 |
| LjL | %cases uk | 17:41 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, United Kingdom, there are 2626 cases, 71 deaths (2.7% of cases), 65 recoveries as of March 18, 16:30Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 17:41 |
| LjL | i would gladly assume so | 17:41 |
| AimHere | Laters figures goes +933 from 71 to 1004 | 17:41 |
| yuriwho | LjL: I agree, 20-29’s are the major spreaders with so many asymptomatic and the carefree attitudes of youth | 17:41 |
| zirpu[m] | youth is wasted on the young. :) | 17:42 |
| LjL | AimHere, it would be far from the first time the data these sites provide have glitches, so don't worry for now | 17:42 |
| xrogaan | yuriwho: in French, for Belgium (dutch available too). We have a age thingy: https://epidemio.wiv-isp.be/ID/Documents/Covid19/Derni%c3%a8re%20mise%20%c3%a0%20jour%20de%20la%20situation%20%c3%a9pid%c3%a9miologique.pdf | 17:42 |
| yuriwho | lol zirpu[m] | 17:42 |
| AimHere | Okay, typo fixed. +33. A 40% increase in deaths over yesterday. | 17:44 |
| AimHere | Which is bad enough | 17:44 |
| LjL | yuriwho, fwiw, i *have* previously heard (as in, not just from Debbie Birx) that Italy is showing a worrisome trend towards younger people needing hospital treatment. however, it was always tweets or things people were saying, and i have not been able to substantiate it. | 17:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 16:42 UTC: /u/Isentrope: BBC News (World) su Twitter: "First recorded death from coronavirus in sub-Saharan Africa confirmed https://t.co/0PxrT0mkA2… " — from WHO at 16:42: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/OQJ0oU | 17:44 |
| LjL | yuriwho, as clueless as our political class might be, if the US is slightly lying in order to make the young stay home, i would presume similar rumors may be spread by italy's government too | 17:44 |
| yuriwho | LjL: I hope thats it, I’m not seeing anything in the data released | 17:45 |
| bin_bash | LjL: it's happening in the US, you can see the beginnings of it in Dallas | 17:45 |
| LjL | yuriwho, i have been foolish enough not to save previous reports from italy to my computer though, so now i'm fishing for filenames | 17:46 |
| LjL | well, i do save the daily infographics. but those only have age group data for *deaths* | 17:46 |
| xrogaan | LjL: where you there when I linked the brusselstimes article about "terrible" lungs from a 30 years old? | 17:47 |
| yuriwho | this is the newest paper on the topic, I’ll read it and update in a few: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.15.20036293v1 | 17:47 |
| LjL | xrogaan, nope | 17:47 |
| xrogaan | > https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/100824/belgian-doctor-says-young-coronavirus-patients-are-also-getting-severely-ill/ | 17:49 |
| zirpu[m] | vaping can cause lung damage as well as smoking. so damaged lungs are a problem if you get the virus. | 17:49 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, fyi the no-longer-a-pastebin https://covid19.specops.network/ has a link to where you can see diffs now | 17:49 |
| LjL | xrogaan, i'll read now, but there is no doubt they *can* get seriously ill. it's about the numbers. | 17:50 |
| LjL | zirpu[m], you mean... vaping in general, or vaping those substances that have caused a large number of sometimes fatal injuries in the US? | 17:50 |
| yuriwho | here’s the money quote from that paper: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.15.20036293v1 | 17:50 |
| xrogaan | LjL: we don't have a lot of people in Belgium though. | 17:51 |
| LjL | xrogaan, well we're not talking one in a million patients. more like one in 500 (making numbers up tbh) | 17:52 |
| yuriwho | sry, I’m on a tablet.... the quote talks about the sandwich generation (those taking care of kids and elderly parents as a key group to break transmission chains | 17:52 |
| LjL | yuriwho, ah, that makes sense to me even as that short description... | 17:53 |
| xrogaan | LjL: Looking at the pdf I linked, there are more 30-70 sick people, but more death for the elderly. | 17:55 |
| LjL | xrogaan, 30-70 is a pretty large group. people over 50 get it a lot ("get it" meaning with enough symptoms to end up becoming positive cases) | 17:56 |
| aradesh | UK lady in hospital with corona virus: https://streamable.com/25pya | 17:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:53 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Stati Uniti — from WHO at 16:53: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Npnach | 17:57 |
| LjL | aradesh, if it's unsettling to see... considering whether we need to | 17:57 |
| aradesh | it is kind of | 17:58 |
| aradesh | so don't if you don't want to | 17:58 |
| aradesh | she says don't take any chances | 17:58 |
| aradesh | because it's not nice | 17:58 |
| xrogaan | LjL: confirmed cases: https://files.catbox.moe/jnbt4m.png ; death: https://files.catbox.moe/5lha4a.png | 17:58 |
| LjL | there will be Italy's daily press conference soon at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xDIsotty1U which i will hopefully transcribe. at the same time there is also Boris Johnson's press conference, it should be available on Sky's youtube channel | 17:58 |
| bin_bash | so many press conferences... not much to say | 17:59 |
| bin_bash | typical politics | 17:59 |
| LjL | xrogaan, it should be adjusted by how many people of those age groups there *are* | 17:59 |
| xrogaan | how many sick people? | 18:01 |
| bin_bash | why not both pdf and csv | 18:01 |
| xrogaan | at the moment the report got made: 1 486 cases | 18:02 |
| LjL | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Auq9mYxFEE is showing the WHO press conference right now; I expect it to show the UK press conference shortly | 18:06 |
| mefistofeles | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Auq9mYxFEE guess UK here as well | 18:07 |
| mefistofeles | ah osame | 18:07 |
| LjL | lol | 18:07 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 18:07 |
| mefistofeles | but they are not showing the WHO conference right now, are they? | 18:07 |
| LjL | Italy's should have started some minutes ago, but it's late | 18:07 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, well they were when i clicked! | 18:07 |
| LjL | i guess they are showing bits | 18:07 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: make sure you have the red thing next to the LIVE word | 18:08 |
| mefistofeles | UK closing schools, btw | 18:08 |
| bin_bash | that link doesnt show a press conference for me | 18:08 |
| mefistofeles | bin_bash: not yet | 18:08 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, the closing schools thing, i thought it was kind of expected *from* the press conference. is there official info about it already? | 18:09 |
| bin_bash | mefistofeles: how long until the conf | 18:09 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: not yet | 18:09 |
| bin_bash | trump speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko2AEK4W2zk | 18:10 |
| LjL | lol, there is *that* too? | 18:10 |
| LjL | can they all not speak at the same time | 18:10 |
| bin_bash | well the who isnt speaking yet | 18:11 |
| bin_bash | how can anyone take trump seriously | 18:11 |
| mefistofeles | who did it today already | 18:11 |
| LjL | Italy's daily civil protection converence live now at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xDIsotty1U - I'm about to translate | 18:11 |
| mefistofeles | s/who/WHO | 18:11 |
| LjL | Good evening and thanksk to prof. Brusaferro who is with me today. | 18:11 |
| LjL | First we're giving you the data we got, but the region of Campania is missing for today. | 18:11 |
| LjL | Recovered: +1084, an important number, for a total of 4025, a 37% increment | 18:12 |
| LjL | Positives: +2648, as you see in the course of this week, the trend is substantially stationary (linear), for a total of 28710 | 18:12 |
| LjL | 12090 are in self-isolation at home, with mild or no symptoms; 2257 are in ICU. | 18:12 |
| LjL | Unfortunately the deaths are +475 today. | 18:12 |
| LjL | [I am not sure I understood that right :\] | 18:13 |
| LjL | 55 patients have been transferred to other regions in total as of today. | 18:13 |
| LjL | Installation of new structures has continued, also by the armed forces in Crema and Piacenza. I want to thank the armed forces who are working closely with us. | 18:13 |
| RougeRRR | well | 18:14 |
| LjL | We have distributed more masks and more ventilators, 1 million masks and 40 ventilators. | 18:14 |
| RougeRRR | i just phoned my local news agency | 18:14 |
| RougeRRR | ive contacted my local politicians | 18:14 |
| RougeRRR | ive spoken to my local paper | 18:14 |
| RougeRRR | still no fucking action | 18:14 |
| RougeRRR | still the UK border remains wide open | 18:14 |
| RougeRRR | cases are rising | 18:14 |
| RougeRRR | and no one here gives a fuck | 18:14 |
| LjL | About the rest, I want to remind you that the Civil Protection department, on the basis of requests we've had in the past few days, has opened a bank account to get donations from citizens. You can find the info about this bank account on our site. The donations will be used to buy medical equipment. | 18:14 |
| RougeRRR | im off to protest tommorow | 18:14 |
| azy | i went the pub last night, it was packed | 18:15 |
| LjL | I want to end my statement by stating I'm close to the mayors in the Bergamo area, who are living, together with healthcare structures and the population, a time of real hardness. | 18:15 |
| mefistofeles | azy: thanks for putting people at risk (?) | 18:15 |
| LjL | Let me also remind everyone to keep correct behaviors, and to limit travel in the strictest possible way, also with a look at today's numbers. | 18:15 |
| azy | if youre at risk you should isolate yourself | 18:16 |
| LjL | (Brusaferri) As you know, we at the ISS provide twice-weekly reports on epidemiology and mortality, aside from the daily infographics. | 18:16 |
| LjL | Today I want to focus on these reports, which you can find on our sites. The trend on curves for confirmed cases shows that it's growing, and the maps in our infographics shows that northern regions are still the most critically hit. | 18:16 |
| LjL | Borrelli mentioned earlier that some areas of the country are installing new structures in an extraordinary effort, and I want to join him in thanking them. | 18:17 |
| LjL | That said, in other areas of the country there is growth, but it's not that fast. This is still an important element to consider: we must not be deluded by thinking that the lower numbers in southern regions. Only if we all behave in the recommended ways, avoiding close contracts and keeping social distances, we can slow the curve. | 18:18 |
| LjL | The most important issue is on ICU beds; it's true it's a limited number of the infected who need them, but even 5% becomes a very high number of there are very many infected. | 18:18 |
| LjL | It's most important to keep our recommendations in mind in everyday life. | 18:18 |
| aradesh | UK schools closing on friday "until further notice" | 18:19 |
| LjL | One aspect I'd like to highlight, actually two, is: for people who are positive but asymptomatic or nearly asymptomatic, they MUST absolutely respect isolation rules. | 18:19 |
| LjL | We published information leaflets on the rules for those people, which you can find on our site. If these people do not respect the rules, they are the most likely to infect. People who are hospitalized are already isolated completely; but people who feel well enough, with few symptoms, maybe just a little fever, those are the ones who can most easily infect the virus. | 18:20 |
| LjL | The second recommendation, before I analyze the mortality data, concerns vulnerable people: unfortunately, mortality hits people affected by pathologies and people who are elderly. If we combine those two factors, that's the most salient scenario in the mortality data. | 18:20 |
| LjL | Hence the recommendation to give these people the most protection: it means they must stay home. It means that the support networks must help them stay home, by bringing them food etc. | 18:21 |
| LjL | These are people who will pay the highest price if they get infected. | 18:21 |
| LjL | Similarly in nursing home: they must unfortunately be denied visits, but this denial is very important because an infection in those contexts is both hardly controllable, and affecting people most at risk. | 18:21 |
| LjL | Now to the deaths: next to a daily analysis made by the civil protection, which gives the main numbers, we have a slightly more delayed but more detailed analysis on the profiles of people who lose their lives. | 18:22 |
| LjL | We must obtain the individual files, which causes a delay, but allows a more exact definition of their course. | 18:22 |
| LjL | The data are not significantly different from the ones given in previous days: we obtain more details, but generally, we're still speaking about a dying population that is around 80 years of age, mainly male (women make up 30%), and the age difference between who dies and those people who get hospitalized or are affected is about 15. | 18:23 |
| LjL | So it's a reality that hits mainly the elderly, with the peaks in the 70-79 range and highest in 80-89. | 18:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:18 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Vorrei anche chiarificare per chi è confuso, l'incremento del numero di contagi non è uguale ai casi positivi nuovi effettivi. Questo perché il numero di nuovi contagi viene ridotta a causa della gente che guarisce, e purtroppo anche dalla gente che decede. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/JLFa23 | 18:23 |
| LjL | Next to the age groups, the other important element is comorbidities: they are often common issues, but when they come together, they make people very fragile. High pressure, strokes, etc etc | 18:24 |
| LjL | When we analyze mortality, we find out that 48.5% has 3 or more comorbidities. 25% has 2 and 25% has one. | 18:24 |
| LjL | With the current analysis, only 0.8% have zero comorbidities. | 18:24 |
| aradesh | boris is giving a talk too | 18:24 |
| LjL | This is an important part to understanding the epidemiology, and it explains why I recommend the utmost attention to vulnerable people. | 18:25 |
| mnu | UK schools shutting on Friday | 18:25 |
| LjL | The symptoms that characterize people who tend to have a bad prognosis are fever and dyspnea, followed by coughing. | 18:25 |
| sneep | LjL: Grats on escaping exponential growth | 18:25 |
| LjL | Other elements: among younger people, who do die even below 50, when we look at the files, some of those people are already affected by comorbidities even at that range: kidney issues, heart issues, psychiatric issues[!] | 18:26 |
| aradesh | apparently they're going to start doing 25,000 tests a day in the UK | 18:27 |
| LjL | The general picture, so I can also give a final message before questions, we must be aware we're in a phase where we're still looking at effects of the measures adopted, and we can't see any benefits immediately, but we must not give up. We are not in the condition to give up. We must keep these measures going if we want to see any effects and protect the most vulnerable. This is our bet together, and the numbers we are sharing twice weekly and daily | 18:27 |
| LjL | indicate that this is the correct path to keep treading. | 18:27 |
| LjL | If cases are diluted in time, people will find our healthcare workers most able to treat them. | 18:27 |
| LjL | Finally let me thanks all of our professionals and volunteers, as well as local, regional and national authorities who are doing everything to reduce the impact. | 18:28 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Thanks, questions now. | 18:28 |
| LjL | Agenzia Nova: the situation in the provinces of Bergamo and Brescia: has the Institute done any studies, explaining the scary growth of cases there? Is it just because they are close to the initial "red zone", or are there other regions? They have more cases alone than the whole regions of Veneto and Emilia-Romagna. Many people also left Lombardy, so should other regions expect a similar growth? | 18:29 |
| LjL | Borrelli answers: the adopted measures exist to see these bad consequences, if at all, in an attenuated way. | 18:29 |
| LjL | The reality of Bergamo and Brescia is that there are many elderly people, who before the epidemic meant there was a very good quality of life, since it meant a long life expectancy even with comorbidities. BUt in this situation, it represents highened risk. | 18:30 |
| LjL | We cannot make predictions, but on the basis of similar situations like in the original red zone, we can wish systematically adopted measures can lower this curve, and stop it from happening again in other provinces. | 18:30 |
| LjL | The pattern of cases in these provinces is very bad, but we must keep in mind it still reflects the situation before the stricter measures after Lombardy was only a "yellow zone". | 18:31 |
| LjL | The whole of Lombardy is a place with high circulation of people and goods, and this facilitates the epidemic, and it's complex to interrupt contacts... now it may be simpler since we "stopped everything", but the connectivity factor is one we have found important before. | 18:31 |
| LjL | Adopting the same measures on the whole of the national territory should make it so these contacts stop, and the epidemic relents. | 18:32 |
| LjL | Question: from the data........ people who died..... in hospital or at home? And, ....% of infected people are within health structures..... they ask to obtain tests.... what about their request? | 18:32 |
| LjL | About the first question, which was about whether people died at home or hospital. Well, we have most indication of deaths in hospitals, and secondly in nursing homes. That's why you've heard many times from me about nursing homes. | 18:33 |
| LjL | I'm not saying there are no deaths at home, but these are the data we have. | 18:33 |
| LjL | About healthcare workers, our data say that a few of them have become positive and unfortunately even died, and obviously this, like I said in the press conference, well it's not about my individual friend, but all the people who are sacrificing themselves for this. | 18:34 |
| LjL | But Borrelli is more qualified here to provide equipment to let these people make a better job. | 18:34 |
| LjL | But unfortunately we're still in a phase where industrial conversion to product medical equipment has not yet occurred. | 18:34 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) This work is not only being done by us at the CP, but the regions are also doing it, and there is mutual help, such as when we obtained masks from Brazil, or when we manage to "unlock" goods that are stopped at borders. | 18:35 |
| LjL | This is like something we create every day, but then in the evening it gets partly undone, because some contracts fail to materialize, partly because of border closures. | 18:35 |
| LjL | What we all expect is that our country can start production of PPEs ASAP. In the meanwhile, we'll face the situation with all the possible efforts, going around the world finding needed PPEs. | 18:36 |
| LjL | (Prof.) Adding just one element: the scientific committee, but also this has been turned into directives by the government, is monitoring the healthcare workers who were exposed. | 18:36 |
| LjL | Question from ADN Kronos: [inaudible] men of 69 years of age ... | 18:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:31 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Markets continue to fall, Trump team outlines plan to send payments to Americans — from WHO at 17:31: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/qUPxQU | 18:36 |
| LjL | No, at the moment we are unable to provide this kind of answers. It's a data point we also are seeing, and when the sample of people tested grows, we will see. But this is the data we have today. | 18:37 |
| LjL | [This seems like it would have been important] | 18:37 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +4238 cases (now 209937), +475 deaths (now 8660), +1084 recoveries (now 83186) 🔶 Italy: +4207 cases (now 35713), +475 deaths (now 2978), +1084 recoveries (now 4025) 🔸 Canada: +31 cases (now 629) 🔸 Ontario, Canada: +31 cases (now 221) 🔸 Abruzzo, Italy: +34 cases (now 263), +1 deaths (now 7) 🔸 Basilicata, Italy: +7 cases (now 27) [... want %more?] | 18:37 |
| LjL | Question: the very high mortality rate, what do you attribute it to? The fact only a few of actual cases are tested, or does Italy have peculiar conditions? | 18:37 |
| LjL | Answer: we are been asked these questions by the international scene too. | 18:37 |
| LjL | One factor characterizing our populace is average age that is quite advanced. | 18:38 |
| LjL | This type of population is the "favorite target" by this type of infection, because in people who are already comorbid, you add an element that makes the situation fatal. | 18:38 |
| LjL | Certainly, our population's age justifies this data point. There is no evidence that the virus circulating here is any different from the one in other parts of the world. | 18:38 |
| LjL | Virus sequencing is also showing this. Another consideration is that this is hitting some parts of the country the most where the average age is even higher. | 18:39 |
| LjL | We have no reason today to state there is a different specificity than in other parts of the world. | 18:39 |
| LjL | That said, individual files are letting us analyze all of this more specifically. | 18:39 |
| mefistofeles | aradesh: UK is "moving to" 25k test a day, I wouldn't say they will be making that number anytime soon, still | 18:40 |
| LjL | [lost some part] A portion of people are positive but asymptomatic at home, but the policies adopted according to WHO guidance make the number of positives, or simply nontested but isolated people, like close contacts, who MUST respect the quarantine, it causes the denominator to be larger, so if we only do deaths/cases, this risks being overestimated. | 18:40 |
| python476 | o/ | 18:40 |
| LjL | This is the scenario at the moment. | 18:40 |
| python476 | I think I'm gonna cut all interactions | 18:41 |
| python476 | people stuck at home are very happy talking and inviting you for fixing some tiny problem | 18:41 |
| aradesh | my dad is as expected, being stubborn. he suggested that we go to the pub on saturday. i don't even know if the pubs will be open... and a pub sounds like a terrible idea. customers touching the glasses, the staff then touching all of those used glasses, and then touching the glass they serve you. | 18:42 |
| LjL | Question: I had written a question that you partly already answered, but I'll try asking it again because I think it is important, also about respect to the people who die from this. So the question is, with respect to the data published today, too, how much can it be clarified whether a death is actually due to COVID-19, and not what the FDA itself called a "commuter disease", meaning it infects someone who already has health issues, and makes them | 18:42 |
| LjL | critical. Is there any specific data point indicating the *real* mortality rate? | 18:42 |
| python476 | aradesh: people in pubs getting sick is doubly sad | 18:43 |
| RougeRRR | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51952314 | 18:43 |
| python476 | since they're surrounded by alcohol | 18:43 |
| LjL | (Prof.) I'm using the data I gave before, but I'll try to say this another way. Of course, every death is a defeat for us, for all of us who are trying to safeguard the most vulnerable people. | 18:43 |
| mefistofeles | %title | 18:43 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From www.bbc.co.uk: Coronavirus: Schools to close until further notice from Friday - BBC News | 18:43 |
| LjL | (Asker) I absolutely didn't mean to... | 18:43 |
| python476 | tell him to dip his glass and fingers into whiskey | 18:43 |
| python476 | 200k number reached, but most importantly, US is about to pass France | 18:43 |
| LjL | (Prof.) No, it's okay. When the Institute reports data and says 48.5% of deaths had 3 or more comorbidities, and they peak between the ages of 80-89... those are people we call in a condition of fragility. Even a very small thing can tip the balance towards the end of their lives. | 18:44 |
| LjL | An analogy can be made with events from climate, like heatwaves, or simply influenza, the most fragile people pay the toll the most. A small factor altering equilibrium is enough to change the person's course of life. | 18:44 |
| azy | evolution | 18:44 |
| RougeRRR | contingo, | 18:45 |
| LjL | In this case the infection is the straw that breaks the camel's back. It's people who were taking many medications... In Italy, thankfully, we live long, but that means the more fragile you are, the more even a small perturbation tips the balace. | 18:45 |
| LjL | That our population is older than most is an objective fact. The infection hitting mostly the elderly is also an objective fact. | 18:45 |
| RougeRRR | python476, US passes france long ago | 18:45 |
| RougeRRR | the tests are finnally just being done | 18:46 |
| LjL | This does not justify anything, we do mean to do anything possible to avoid even this "straw". | 18:46 |
| RougeRRR | LjL, | 18:46 |
| RougeRRR | if you were my island | 18:46 |
| LjL | Question: [missed] How and when will we be able to use the plasma from recovered people to cure the sick? | 18:46 |
| python476 | RougeRRR: I'm just reading JHU / plague.com numbers | 18:46 |
| RougeRRR | would you not mandate 14 day quarantines from the UK | 18:46 |
| RougeRRR | we are on the cusp of community spread (likelY) | 18:46 |
| RougeRRR | would you not put in place a 10 day lockdown | 18:46 |
| python476 | I see, so technically a huge number spike is just waiting to be recorded | 18:47 |
| azy | what would you do after that, if it just started up again? | 18:47 |
| LjL | Okay, this is one of the most interesting question in public healthcare. But to make use of this, we need some assumptions to be true: we must be able to dose the amount of antibodies in the plasma of recovered people. We all have a different antibody response, depending on our body and our immune system. | 18:47 |
| RougeRRR | they are working on a mitigtion not containment policy | 18:47 |
| RougeRRR | JERSEY is assuming that they cant avoid thisa | 18:47 |
| derpadmin | %cases italy | 18:47 |
| Brainstorm | derpadmin: In all areas, Italy, there are 35713 cases, 2978 deaths (8.3% of cases), 4025 recoveries as of March 18, 17:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 18:47 |
| RougeRRR | they are working to flatten tthe curve instead of stop | 18:47 |
| RougeRRR | stupi | 18:47 |
| RougeRRR | useless | 18:47 |
| RougeRRR | fuciking | 18:47 |
| RougeRRR | wankers in our government | 18:47 |
| RougeRRR | ahhh | 18:47 |
| LjL | Today we don't have any standardized techniques to do this, which is one of the main limitations. This doesn't mean we won't get it in the next few weeks, but, a very important thing is being able to dose antibodies. If we can do this, then we can select the plasma from people with a significant antibody response, and use it to help other people's immune response. | 18:47 |
| LjL | RougeRRR, calm down please... | 18:47 |
| python476 | anybody here decided to go distribute alcohol to people ? | 18:48 |
| RougeRRR | sorry | 18:48 |
| BravoEchoNovembe | %cases Germany | 18:48 |
| Brainstorm | BravoEchoNovembe: In all areas, Germany, there are 11302 cases, 27 deaths (0.2% of cases), 86 recoveries as of March 18, 15:53Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 18:48 |
| RougeRRR | python476, ive distributed it to myself | 18:48 |
| LjL | I have trust our researchers, companies and research centers are working on this. Please let me not quantify what "shortly" means, but shortly we'll be able to understand and evaluate this option. | 18:48 |
| RougeRRR | jesus germany has jumoed | 18:48 |
| RougeRRR | jumped | 18:48 |
| python476 | RougeRRR: yeah but you're already a clean person | 18:48 |
| RougeRRR | wait python476 | 18:48 |
| RougeRRR | i mean my mouth | 18:48 |
| RougeRRR | whisky | 18:49 |
| LjL | Question: A question for both of you: we have two deadlines for now, 25 March for commercial activities, and 3 April for opening schools. Do you think these dates will be respected, or will the measures have to be continued, or be made even stronger, more stringent, which some government people have suggested? | 18:49 |
| RougeRRR | they will be continued | 18:49 |
| RougeRRR | no doubt in my mind | 18:49 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) It's soon to make a judgment and decide on the matter. My own evaluations from the indication I get also from the scientific committee, we will have to wait a few more days, maybe a week, to be able to see the trends consolidating. At this time I would not fixate on the future decisions. Our country has been good in making the right but also most adequate and most proportional decisions at each step. | 18:50 |
| derpadmin | %cases germany | 18:50 |
| Brainstorm | derpadmin: In all areas, Germany, there are 11302 cases, 27 deaths (0.2% of cases), 86 recoveries as of March 18, 15:53Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 18:50 |
| LjL | This is also what our PM Conte remarked. We must not take measures too much in advance. | 18:50 |
| forestfox | shutdown will last all year | 18:50 |
| python476 | RougeRRR: ha hehe | 18:51 |
| LjL | (Prof.) I can stress that we must measure the effects of the adopted measures, and we're doing it, but we're still at the start. We must keep in mind this epidemic concerns Italy in a very hard way, but it really concerns all of the EU, and all the world. | 18:51 |
| LjL | The battle is about behavior, social distancing, etc, but we must manage this while measuring what's happening and "modulating" adopted measures. | 18:51 |
| LjL | I will never get tired of saying that the efficacy of any measures goes through the understanding everyone must respect them, and if you test negative today, you could test positive tomorrow, so there is no shortcut. | 18:52 |
| LjL | The tests for plasma antibodies are under validation by the WHO. | 18:52 |
| LjL | But for now the tests aren't the decisive weapon at this point; it's our behaviors. The tests only give you a snapshot, "I'm negative now". | 18:52 |
| LjL | We must keep in mind the newer tests have not been validated, but during the next weeks this will change, and so may the behaviors and choices. | 18:52 |
| LjL | But today the battle is won with behavior. | 18:52 |
| LjL | Question: [Inaudible] | 18:53 |
| LjL | Well, let us measure the effects. We can't change our laws every day. Just last week a very strict law was adopted, so let's this act before we make conclusions. | 18:53 |
| LjL | Question: When governor Fontana says: "There is the chance we won't be able to provide cure to the sick", does this concern you? And when Mayor Gori says the number of dead is underestimated, as in Bergamo there is not even the chance to get a post-mortem test, does this concern you? How will this situation translate into the south of the country, since the "fleeting" may create a huge problem we do not wish to have? | 18:54 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) We wouldn't be here sharing our recommendations and restrictive measures... yes, of course I'm concerned, but I'm also working, to make it so that particularly critical scenarios NOT occur in other areas of the countries. | 18:54 |
| LjL | Even if some areas of the countries seem to act like it's something far away, something only concerning others... even if we live hundreds of kms from Lombardy, our behavior is essential. | 18:55 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: to be answered later... Fontana is governor of what? | 18:55 |
| LjL | But I'm hopeful Italians understand this, so I'm worried, but working hard, and taking comfort from the fact that my colleagues, the authorities, volunteers... I have the feeling, as you may have, that the message is getting through, and we must all work to let that continue. | 18:55 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, Lombardy | 18:56 |
| mefistofeles | ok | 18:56 |
| LjL | The deaths in Bergamo... unfortunately, at this time the virus is very widely circulating in its province, and its population is very old, and this... is one of those elements: high circulation, elderly population, many comorbidities... They have outstanding medical structures there, but even when you have the best, when you're faced with those numbers and those types of people, it is very difficult to give more than you possibly can. | 18:56 |
| LjL | Question from ANSA: the case of Veneto, it appears to have a "performance" that's fairly good: I see the testing rate is very very high, 40000, which is similar to Lombardy but Lombardy has 10 times they cases. Veneto also has many more self-isolated patients than hospitalized. You said tests are not the deciding factor, so, why do you think Veneto is performing better than other regions? | 18:57 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) One of the most important bets, aside from medical care (ICU beds, sub-ICU beds, which are being installed also in the Bergamo area), is management of people at home, who are either positive or close contacts of positivies. | 18:58 |
| LjL | It's early today to compare different regions, but this is what I can recommend, and I'm sure all regions, be it Lombardy which is unfortunately the epicenter of this crisis, but also other regions we wish never to get into this situation, for all of them it is very important to trace contacts and people who are asymptomatic or mild, and those people MUST follow isolation rules. | 18:59 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) I'll end with the communication that Campania will shortly make its data for today Available. | 18:59 |
| LjL | Thanks and good evening. | 18:59 |
| LjL | --- end | 18:59 |
| mefistofeles | man, Italy ffs... | 19:00 |
| mefistofeles | really having a hard time | 19:00 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: I couldn't read the whole thing, but I've noticed something, I have not seen numbers on testing from Italy in these conferences, as far as I can remember | 19:00 |
| mefistofeles | did they say something? | 19:01 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, he said Veneto tested about 40k people and so did Lombardy | 19:01 |
| xionbox[m] | US seems on track to pass the number of deaths that France has by tonight or tomorrow | 19:01 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: ah ok | 19:01 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, however Lombardy is much more populated, and they found about 10x the positives | 19:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:57 UTC: /u/BlatantConservative: Eurovision 2020 has been canceled due to the coronavirus pandemic, organizers confirm - CNN Style — from WHO at 17:57: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/nu8V2R | 19:01 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, i believe the number of total tests *is* available... somewhere. i will try to get it | 19:01 |
| dunnp | US is almost perfeclty tracking Italy - 11days | 19:01 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, now i'm editing my transcript to be able to pastebin it | 19:02 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: ourworldindata had something from the 13th of March or something | 19:02 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: sure, thanks again | 19:02 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, have a look at the "Il Sole 24 ore" link from the topic, it has some good details | 19:02 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: gotcha | 19:03 |
| LjL | it's in italian but most things can be guessed | 19:03 |
| mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: oh, I haven't noticed the csv download option in offloop, is that new? Anyways, nic! | 19:04 |
| mefistofeles | nice* | 19:04 |
| dunnp | New York is looking really bad now | 19:04 |
| mefistofeles | %data New York | 19:05 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +763 cases (now 210700), +3 deaths (now 8663), +19 recoveries (now 83205) 🔶 Germany: +671 cases (now 11973), +1 deaths (now 28), +19 recoveries (now 105) 🔸 Canada: +56 cases (now 654) 🔸 Nova Scotia, Canada: +5 cases (now 12) 🔸 Ontario, Canada: +31 cases (now 221) 🔸 Quebec, Canada: +20 cases (now 94) [... want %more?] | 19:05 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: In New York, US, there are 2480 cases, 16 deaths (0.6% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 18, 18:00Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 19:05 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: not that bad, fwiw.... but why are you saying it is? | 19:06 |
| fructose | https://i.imgur.com/c8zUeRG.png | 19:07 |
| fructose | dunnp: Yep, curves look very similar | 19:08 |
| M_[m]4 | <mefistofeles "dunnp: not that bad, fwiw.... bu"> aren't they going under martial law in a day or 2? | 19:08 |
| LjL | it looks like we're doing worse than yesterday both in terms of new cases and deaths... though especially deaths, but the case graph isn't looking like it's flattening, tbh, at all | 19:08 |
| dunnp | about as many cases in NY as in the UK | 19:08 |
| dunnp | very dense | 19:08 |
| mefistofeles | well, NY is one of the biggest cities with highest mobility, so yeah, they are a special case for sure | 19:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:06 UTC: (news): WHO warns some children develop 'severe' or 'critical' disease from coronavirus — from WHO at 18:06: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/A04mZK | 19:14 |
| LjL | here's the transcription https://dpaste.org/8x3u | 19:14 |
| sandro_ | %data germany | 19:17 |
| Brainstorm | sandro_: In all areas, Germany, there are 11973 cases, 28 deaths (0.2% of cases), 105 recoveries as of March 18, 17:53Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 19:17 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | <rajrajraj "↑↑"> %data is | 19:19 |
| LjL | i think i'm not sure whether it was a good idea for Matrix to implement replies at all -.- | 19:19 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | %data US | 19:20 |
| Brainstorm | v0idkr4ft[m]: In all areas, US, there are 5501 cases, 52 deaths (0.9% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 18, 05:53Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 19:20 |
| rajrajraj | v0idkr4ft[m]: so dont go lookin me with that look into your eeeeeeeeeeyes | 19:20 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | Lol that wasnt sposed to b a reply | 19:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:10 UTC: Prisons and probation: Fears over coronavirus risk in prisons as first UK inmate case confirmed — from WHO at 18:10: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/BrQMqQ | 19:26 |
| oriba | JHU does *not* only use official data. In the media IO heard that JHU values are higher than RKI (germany) values, because submitting the official data to the RKI needs more time. So, JHU seems to add unofficial data into their csv's. | 19:34 |
| LjL | i don't have a problem with that. we use their data here mainly to gauge trends and have the quickest possible updates. if i want to see what's happening in detail, i go to my country's infographics that have been vetted by the ISS. the only bad thing about that is that you have to do that in different ways for each country... and that's a big issue, but also, those data go into much more detail than "n cases, m deaths" so they simply aren't the same kind | 19:37 |
| LjL | of thing | 19:37 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +1394 cases (now 212094) 🔶 France, France: +1391 cases (now 9043) 🔸 Canada: +59 cases (now 657) 🔸 New Brunswick, Canada: +3 cases (now 11) 🔸 Nova Scotia, Canada: +5 cases (now 12) 🔸 Ontario, Canada: +31 cases (now 221) 🔸 Quebec, Canada: +20 cases (now 94) 🔸 Abruzzo, Italy: +34 cases (now 263), +1 deaths (now 7) [... want %more?] | 19:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:29 UTC: (news): Dow wipes out gains under Trump's presidency, still slightly positive since his election — from WHO at 18:29: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Q4Lf9r | 19:38 |
| oriba | What kind of additional detail do you mean? | 19:39 |
| calbasi_matrix | %data Spain | 19:40 |
| Brainstorm | calbasi_matrix: In all areas, Spain, there are 13910 cases, 623 deaths (4.5% of cases), 1081 recoveries as of March 18, 13:13Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Spain for time series data. | 19:40 |
| calbasi_matrix | %data Italy | 19:41 |
| Brainstorm | calbasi_matrix: In all areas, Italy, there are 35713 cases, 2978 deaths (8.3% of cases), 4025 recoveries as of March 18, 17:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 19:41 |
| oriba | LjL: What kind of additional detail do you mean? And what is ISS? | 19:41 |
| oriba | International Space Station not, I guess | 19:42 |
| LjL | well, i'm sure the people on the ISS will be glad to... stay there for a while longer, but no | 19:46 |
| LjL | %wik :en Istituto Superiore di Sanità | 19:46 |
| LjL | it's the italian CDC, although the comparison may be flawed | 19:46 |
| LjL | it tends to be mentioned in the press conferences i always translate | 19:46 |
| bin_bash | my understanding was that italy does not have a CDC equivalent and that's been part od the probelm | 19:47 |
| LjL | bin_bash, i honestly cannot say how much the ISS resembles (or not) the CDC in structure and function | 19:47 |
| LjL | anyway there are four organisms currently that "jointly manage" the emergency (where "jointly" may or may not mean "while fighting") | 19:48 |
| bin_bash | id have to hunt to find the source which i dont care to do, but iirc it's more like the department of health than the cdc and the lack of disease response committee entirely has been problematic | 19:48 |
| LjL | the ISS, the Civil Protection, the Ministry of Health, and the regional governments (which have a lot of the healthcare devolved to, since many years ago) | 19:48 |
| astraliam[m] | !cases italy | 19:48 |
| astraliam[m] | %data italy | 19:49 |
| Brainstorm | astraliam[m]: In all areas, Italy, there are 35713 cases, 2978 deaths (8.3% of cases), 4025 recoveries as of March 18, 17:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 19:49 |
| LjL | bin_bash, well is there a difference between the department of health and... whatever would correspond to the ministry of health in a parliamentary system? | 19:49 |
| bin_bash | idk | 19:49 |
| bin_bash | department of health and humans services in the us is more about sanitation and stuff | 19:50 |
| LjL | all that English Wikipedia has to say about the ISS is | 19:50 |
| LjL | The Istituto Superiore di Sanità (Italian National Institute of Health[1]), also ISS, is an Italian public institution that, as the leading technical-scientific body of the Italian National Health Service (Servizio Sanitario Nazionale), performs research, trials, control, counseling, documentation and training for public health. The Institute is under the supervision of the Ministero della Salute (Ministry of Health). | 19:50 |
| LjL | that's pretty much the entire article | 19:50 |
| rajrajraj | listen to my lung | 19:51 |
| bin_bash | yeah | 19:51 |
| rajrajraj | one and only broken angel | 19:51 |
| bin_bash | see, nothing like the cdc | 19:51 |
| rajrajraj | come and save me before i fall apart | 19:51 |
| LjL | the Italian article is more detailed, but still i see most of the detail being about its history: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fit.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FIstituto_superiore_di_sanit%25C3%25A0 | 19:51 |
| LjL | %tr [In 2001] L'ISS divenne ente di diritto pubblico che, in qualità di organo tecnico-scientifico del Servizio sanitario nazionale, svolge funzioni di ricerca, sperimentazione, controllo, consulenza, documentazione e formazione in materia di salute pubblica. | 19:53 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: [In 2001] ISS became a body governed by public law which, as technical-scientific body of the National Health Service, carries out research, experimentation, control, consultancy, documentation and training on public health. (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 19:53 |
| astraliam[m] | comment on the graph if anyone interested. Doesnt include latest data point. Also last shown is consistent with slightly less than liner growth which is presumably good news (lock down is working?) lets hope from logarithmic taper after another 7 days. | 19:53 |
| LjL | bin_bash, but also, really, our "local" equivalent to the CDC ought to be... the ECDC. except the EU included the ECDC have barely done anything, far as i can see | 19:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 18:48 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Defense One su Twitter: "EXCLUSIVE: The U.S. Air Force quietly flew 500,000 COVID-19 testing kits from Italy to Memphis on Monday https://t.co/SLRdFY62r4 | @MarcusReports… https://t.co/I45gZhXpRB" — from WHO at 18:48: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/fKigVG | 19:54 |
| LjL | astraliam[m], in the graph i see the latest data point (enabled "non-authoritative", if needed) as being slightly higher than yesterday's (and definitely higher for the deaths, but okay, the deaths take longer to respond to any changes) | 19:54 |
| LjL | ... | 19:54 |
| LjL | the US Air Force did what | 19:55 |
| bin_bash | they flew the tests | 19:55 |
| LjL | yeah, okay, i mean, we don't have enough testing, Borrelli admits we don't have enough testing in Lombardy, we can barely test the critical cases... and they send tests to the US? | 19:56 |
| bin_bash | it is a bit... odd | 19:56 |
| LjL | why is every other country restricting their exports so we can't buy anything from them, whereas we're still sending stuff abroad? at some point it does make it look like China are the only ones sending us anything | 19:57 |
| bin_bash | yeah agreed | 19:57 |
| bin_bash | other EU countries should be helping Italy at the very least | 19:57 |
| LjL | bin_bash, Borrelli has been saying in every press conference for the past few days, in a somewhat frustrated tone, that they "finalize" contracts for things, especially PPEs, and then those contracts vanish because the relevant country blocks exports | 19:58 |
| LjL | i can understand everyone is selfish at this point, but then if we want to have a chance, we need to be selfish too now, with the little we do have... | 19:58 |
| bin_bash | wow thats fucked | 19:58 |
| oriba | testing kits under quarantine... not that they spread too much... because it woulkd increase the number of cases... | 19:58 |
| bin_bash | honestly LjL to me it just goes to show the EU's true colors | 19:58 |
| tinwhiskers | mefistofeles: ya, just added the csv option yesterday | 19:59 |
| mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: great work, thaks | 20:00 |
| mefistofeles | thanks* | 20:00 |
| tinwhiskers | No worries :-) | 20:00 |
| yuriwho | china needs to step up production of PPE and medical supplies | 20:00 |
| yuriwho | they are in the best position to do it | 20:00 |
| bin_bash | LjL: https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/14/coronavirus-eu-abandoning-italy-china-aid/ | 20:00 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: <3 | 20:00 |
| bin_bash | how's it going in your little corner of the world | 20:00 |
| yuriwho | if we believe their ‘official news’ | 20:00 |
| LjL | bin_bash, i don't know, i used to be an EU supporter, i certainly went from a huge supporter to sort of maybe a supporter but with a bad aftertaste... and now... i just don't know if the EU is even a thing. countries are closing all borders and europa.eu doesn't even *list* any border closures on his Schengen page (except existing Schengen suspensions from 2019 or earlier) | 20:01 |
| oriba | the curve of italy-cases seem to flatten. US and germany look like a nice exp. | 20:01 |
| bin_bash | yeah LjL it's sad tbh | 20:01 |
| bin_bash | but from across the pond i never really expected it to work in the first place. | 20:01 |
| oriba | south corea looks nearly flat | 20:01 |
| AimHere | Reported cases maybe flattened, but today's deaths in Italy is the highest anywhere | 20:01 |
| AimHere | Possibly that's a delayed effect | 20:02 |
| LjL | oriba, again... today's numbers for deaths in italy aren't flattening, and the case numbers *may*, subjectively speaking, reflect a bottleneck in testing more than anything (since lack of enough testing is admitted) | 20:02 |
| oriba | LjL: ah ok, thanks for clarification! | 20:02 |
| LjL | also the case numbers are going *up* today, if not by much, compared to yesterday | 20:02 |
| fructose | I haven't seen Italy flattening | 20:03 |
| oriba | LjL: I meant all cases... | 20:03 |
| LjL | oriba, yes, all cases, look at the change yesterday, and look at the change today | 20:03 |
| oriba | also bottleneck effect? | 20:03 |
| LjL | yeah i think so, especially in Lombardy. select Lombardy here https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lombardia | 20:04 |
| LjL | that "curve" is a bit *too* linear, in my book, to trust it | 20:04 |
| LjL | imo it shows they can only test n cases a day and that's what it's showing | 20:04 |
| oriba | but quarantine shold show an effect... | 20:04 |
| LjL | i think people need to understand Italy's lockdown is not like Wuhan's lockdown | 20:05 |
| LjL | if i go outside and just walk around for no reason, chances are i'll never get asked anything by anyone | 20:05 |
| LjL | if i *do* get stopped by police, i may have a form in my pocket that explains why i've gone out | 20:05 |
| AimHere | LjL, *are* there people walking about outside? | 20:06 |
| LjL | if i lie on that form, that's a worse crime than just being outside without a good reason, but... how are they ever going to find out? | 20:06 |
| oriba | they don't check it? | 20:06 |
| LjL | AimHere, yes. personally, i haven't seen many, but i've only gone out like twice in the past two weeks. reports from other parts of Milan is that "mass" gatherings still do occur | 20:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:02 UTC: (news): Dow wipes out gains under Trump's presidency, still slightly positive since his election — from WHO at 19:02: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Q4Lf9r | 20:06 |
| AimHere | The issue isn't so much enforcement or catching every unnecessary journey, but just modifying behaviour so that the virus doesn't transmit | 20:06 |
| LjL | oriba, how can they check it properly? i can write i'm going to the supermarket. how will they know i'm not? yes, in theory they can say "way, you're further away from the distance between your home and the nearest supermarket"... but i don't see this happening | 20:07 |
| LjL | police doesn't have the resources to even check situations where people *call* police to tell them they can see gatherings of people that shouldn't be there | 20:07 |
| fructose | https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-experiment-in-northern-italian-town-halts-all-new-infections-after-trial-11959587 | 20:07 |
| oriba | how was it in Wuhan? | 20:08 |
| LjL | people sometimes do stop (anecdotal report from someone i know who goes to work on foot on a daily basis) people who are walking in groups, families, people who are *obviously* just strolling around | 20:08 |
| LjL | and so far there have been about 8000 fines | 20:08 |
| _io_ | are Italians as a people generally considered to be an "advanced" "intelligent" "sophisticated" culture? | 20:08 |
| AimHere | The point of that system should be that they have enough police to be visible and who stop people, particularly folks being outside unnecessarily | 20:08 |
| LjL | but this person who reported it to me, for instance, she's never actually been stopped. police see she's alone and she looks intent on going somewhere, they don't bother her. | 20:08 |
| AimHere | Not necessarily to catch every offender, but to deter most folk | 20:08 |
| python476 | _io_: latin culture is both refined and messy | 20:08 |
| python476 | ~southern europe | 20:09 |
| LjL | _io_, i... don't see how that question could possibly not be construed as offensive, for any culture | 20:09 |
| AimHere | LjL, in that case, she's not likely to be spreading the virus | 20:09 |
| _io_ | LjL if the answer is yes it should not be a problem? | 20:09 |
| python476 | _io_: where are you going with this ? | 20:09 |
| LjL | AimHere, fine, but i'm saying, the checks are far from strict. look at any explanation of how the lockdown is enforced in Wuhan. | 20:09 |
| _io_ | thanks python476 . I've never been to Europe. | 20:09 |
| LjL | remember my original point was to explain how Italy's lockdown is nothing like Wuhan's lockdown. | 20:09 |
| _io_ | nowhere. it's just something I'm wondering for my own curiosity and theories. | 20:09 |
| AimHere | LjL, yeah, I see there's a difference. I'm hoping it's not a material one | 20:10 |
| AimHere | As far as virus spread is concerned | 20:10 |
| LjL | _io_, the answer is "the question is prejudiced and cannot be answered objectively" | 20:10 |
| AimHere | (and that it'll work as well as the Wuhan one apparently is) | 20:10 |
| rajrajraj | its good enough for you is good enough for me | 20:10 |
| _io_ | I don't agree that the question is prejudiced LjL but I'll take note that you're offended and leave the line of questioning for the time being ok? | 20:10 |
| LjL | AimHere, Wuhan's measures were made stricter in time. that, to me, tells they thought they weren't working at first, and started working better later. | 20:11 |
| _io_ | my intention is not to offend. | 20:11 |
| LjL | _io_, okay. | 20:11 |
| rajrajraj | come on baby lets get away, lets see the troubles for another day | 20:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:03 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Italy deaths up by 475, biggest jump anywhere in a single day: Italy death toll approaches 3,000; Portugal declares state of emergency; worldwide cases pass 200,000. Follow the latest updates — from WHO at 19:03: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Ts4VGa | 20:19 |
| python476 | i've heard some companies are recruiting to help production of health items | 20:19 |
| python476 | (hand gel and similar) | 20:19 |
| python476 | i'd like to participate | 20:19 |
| rajrajraj | no one wants to be defeated | 20:21 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +411 cases (now 212505), +4 deaths (now 8667) 🔶 US: +332 cases (now 5833), +2 deaths (now 54) 🔸 Algeria: +1 deaths (now 6) 🔸 Brazil: +22 cases (now 372), +1 deaths (now 3) 🔸 Liechtenstein: +9 cases (now 28) 🔸 Pakistan: +43 cases (now 299) 🔸 Qatar: +10 cases (now 452) 🔸 California, US: +33 cases (now 751) 🔸 Florida, US: +97 cases (now 314) [... want %more?] | 20:22 |
| mefistofeles | python476: there are many DIY and/or open source initiatives coming up | 20:22 |
| dividediff[m] | After this is all over, anyone down to start a fist bump over handshake trend? Maybe something like #fuckhandshakes ? | 20:24 |
| mefistofeles | I'd say no contact at all | 20:25 |
| dividediff[m] | Which would hopefully help with The next pandemic | 20:25 |
| rajrajraj | whats the thrill of the fight | 20:26 |
| oriba | porn will save the world | 20:29 |
| aeth | I've been practicing social distancing for years! | 20:29 |
| oriba | aeth: social distancing is my second name, but people urge me to be in contact... | 20:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 19:29 UTC: /u/slakmehl: POLITICO su Twitter: "The White House has issued a “temporary pause” on congressional testimony for senior officials involved in the coronavirus response, https://t.co/ZCKJ9QKUrv" — from WHO at 19:29: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/97fELs | 20:31 |
| dividediff[m] | after coronavirus is over. So people would walk into a job interview and the Boss would initiate a fist bump rather than handshake | 20:34 |
| dividediff[m] | I think transitioning society to that would be easier then say bowing | 20:35 |
| dividediff[m] | Western countries I mean | 20:36 |
| Brainstorm | 🔶 World: +367 cases (now 212872) 🔶 Germany: +354 cases (now 12327) 🔸 Algeria: +1 deaths (now 6) 🔸 Brazil: +22 cases (now 372), +1 deaths (now 3) 🔸 Liechtenstein: +9 cases (now 28) 🔸 Oman: +6 cases (now 39) 🔸 Pakistan: +43 cases (now 299) 🔸 Qatar: +10 cases (now 452) 🔸 US: +7 cases (now 5840) 🔸 Alabama, US: +7 cases (now 46) [... want %more?] | 20:37 |
| bin_bash | fist bump is gross too. elbow bump | 20:41 |
| python476 | bin_bash: I propose the roundhouse kick | 20:42 |
| bin_bash | LOL | 20:42 |
| bin_bash | right to the face? | 20:43 |
| twomoon | hola mefistofeles puedo decir "el virus se cambia de dna cada dos o tres dias" ? | 20:44 |
| hugues_ | %data france | 20:45 |
| Brainstorm | hugues_: In France, France, there are 9043 cases, 148 deaths (1.6% of cases), 12 recoveries as of March 18, 18:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France for time series data. | 20:45 |
| mefistofeles | twomoon: yes, but I'm not quite sure it says what you want to say | 20:45 |
| twomoon | the virus changes its dna every two or three days | 20:46 |
| twomoon | el virus cambia su dna cada dos o tres dias probably makes more sense right? | 20:46 |
| twomoon | but i wanted to make it sound more passive since the virus doesn't actively change its dna | 20:46 |
| LjL | does spanish lack a word for "mutate" somehow? | 20:47 |
| twomoon | lol | 20:47 |
| LjL | because the virus doesn't change its DNA, partly because this virus doesn't *have* DNA | 20:47 |
| mefistofeles | twomoon: then it should be rather something like "el virus cambia su dna cada...", aunque igual es un poco impreciso dadoq ue este virus no es un retrovirus o algo así | 20:47 |
| mefistofeles | shoot, mixed english and spanish there XD | 20:47 |
| dividediff[m] | bin_bash: fist bump has problems but it is better than handshakes. | 20:48 |
| bin_bash | dividediff[m]: just dont touch | 20:48 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, you can't, you're using IRC, you could only dodge if you were on (the) Matrix | 20:48 |
| mefistofeles | haha | 20:48 |
| mefistofeles | you win | 20:48 |
| LjL | what do i win? a viral load? | 20:48 |
| dividediff[m] | bin_bash: I think transitioning society to that would be easier then say bowing | 20:48 |
| LjL | how about we transition to say "Hello" | 20:49 |
| twomoon | yeah you're right , mutate is the best word to use there | 20:49 |
| LjL | because really i don't want to shake hands OR to bow OR to bump elboys | 20:49 |
| LjL | elbows, even | 20:49 |
| twomoon | if i say 'changes its dna' it makes it sound like a retrovirus | 20:49 |
| python476 | guns and viruses | 20:49 |
| python476 | time for a game of Resident Evil | 20:49 |
| dividediff[m] | Corona has RNA? | 20:50 |
| LjL | twomoon, the details is that this virus is an RNA virus, so you'd say "changes its RNA" if anything, but then, people consider DNA synonymous with "genome", so they may be confused if you say "RNA". | 20:50 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: it is a RNA virus, yes | 20:50 |
| mefistofeles | you could say changes it sequence or genetic content or something like that :P | 20:50 |
| dividediff[m] | all viruses are RNA right? | 20:50 |
| mefistofeles | or just mutates | 20:50 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: no | 20:50 |
| python476 | what other mechanisms exist ? | 20:50 |
| twomoon | oh this virus is RNA, is ee | 20:51 |
| twomoon | i had known that, but forgotten it | 20:51 |
| mefistofeles | python476: there can be DNA virus | 20:51 |
| dividediff[m] | DNA is basically RNA but it has a helix? | 20:52 |
| ryouma | sort of kind of | 20:52 |
| twomoon | RNA is single stranded | 20:52 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: not quite, there can be single strand DNA and also double strand RNA | 20:52 |
| twomoon | DNA in a sense is more stable and redundant | 20:53 |
| twomoon | and it probably survives higher temperatures better (?) | 20:53 |
| dividediff[m] | Say what | 20:53 |
| mefistofeles | and to be precise, a virus is not just the genetic material of course, that would be really easy to combat... they have the capsid and the envelope | 20:53 |
| mefistofeles | and those parts also vary and have relevance on contagion | 20:53 |
| dividediff[m] | How does a person know if it’s RNA or DNA? | 20:54 |
| python476 | mefistofeles: do they use oxygen/blood to function ? | 20:54 |
| python476 | by that i mean, should I stop breathing | 20:54 |
| python476 | jk | 20:54 |
| mefistofeles | python476: not directly, that I know of (not an expert, though) | 20:55 |
| python476 | aight | 20:56 |
| ryouma | namaste is another option if you are not interested in bowing | 20:56 |
| python476 | let's download 127 textbooks from libgen and not see | 20:56 |
| ryouma | just praying motion | 20:56 |
| LjL | python476, "they" being viruses? | 20:56 |
| twomoon | como se dice capsid en espanol? | 20:57 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: That’s the hands together and a nod ? | 20:57 |
| LjL | python476, viruses have been found frozen in siberia or similar that are sort of thawing after millennia... and they've sometimes been found to be *viable* (i.e. can potentially infect) | 20:57 |
| LjL | %tr <en >es a virus capsid | 20:57 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, English to Spanish: una cápside de virus (MyMemory, Google) — Una cápsida de virus (Apertium) | 20:57 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: I guess, and this is just a bare naive guess because I don't know this, but I'd think a way is just checking if it gets amplified with a DNA polymerase or rather with an RNA polymerase, once it is isolated (?) | 20:58 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: TIL | 20:59 |
| rajrajraj | dont dont dont dont, dont you, forget about me | 20:59 |
| LjL | rajrajraj, are you a random song lyrics bot? | 21:00 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: no | 21:00 |
| rajrajraj | LjL: as you walk on by, will you call my name | 21:00 |
| LjL | well i knew the answer actually. take the question as a hint | 21:00 |
| rajrajraj | why ask a questoihn you already know rthe anwer of | 21:00 |
| rajrajraj | world needs more action and less information at the moment | 21:01 |
| bin_bash | bullshit | 21:01 |
| tinwhiskers | quite | 21:02 |
| bin_bash | that's the exact opposite of what is needed. | 21:02 |
| bin_bash | people need to sit down and isolate from other people, NOT act | 21:02 |
| rajrajraj | lets just say we agree to disagree | 21:03 |
| dividediff[m] | bin_bash: unless you’re a doctor, World leader, news Etc | 21:03 |
| bin_bash | rajrajraj: then literally everyone with an idea of what's going on disagrees with you | 21:03 |
| bin_bash | dividediff[m]: tbh i think it depends. some doctors should be sitting down and self-isolating | 21:04 |
| dividediff[m] | rajrajraj: What actions did you have in mind? | 21:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:51 UTC: (news): American Society for Reproductive Medicine urges suspension of fertility treatments because of coronavirus — from WHO at 19:51: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/aneB4r | 21:04 |
| dividediff[m] | bin_bash: yea , The sick ones and things like optometrists not necessary right now | 21:04 |
| bin_bash | yeah and the very old ones | 21:05 |
| dividediff[m] | bin_bash: i’ve heard places like Italy are retrieving their retired doctors | 21:06 |
| ryouma | (python476: we sure can't find alcohol and need it; i haev health issues with everythign elscept alcohol and h2o2, and need hand sanitizer which, alcohol; i wonder when su0pplies will return) | 21:07 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], on a voluntary basis, but yes | 21:07 |
| hugues_ | %data france | 21:07 |
| Brainstorm | hugues_: In France, France, there are 9043 cases, 148 deaths (1.6% of cases), 12 recoveries as of March 18, 18:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France for time series data. | 21:07 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], there's also a valley now in Lombardy that had no cases, then suddenly had a few cases (and deaths already), which involves *all* the GPs in the valley (just 4000 people in total, to be fair)... so they were sent military doctors | 21:07 |
| LjL | the doctor in the Alps place where my family has an apartment got sick, hearsay goes, from the first patient in that valley, who then proceeded to die | 21:08 |
| LjL | the doctor should be okay thought, despite having run a 40°C fever, from what i'm told | 21:08 |
| mefistofeles | so yeah, apparently I wasn't that far off, people get this new disease symptoms, try to related it to known diseases/virus, find out they are not related then start amplifying the genetic material, once it amplifies they can know if its DNA or RNA and then just sequence the virus genetic content | 21:08 |
| HeXiLeD | italy using military doctors? | 21:09 |
| LjL | HeXiLeD, that's what i said, yes | 21:09 |
| LjL | i would hope they are using them in other ways too | 21:09 |
| python476 | LjL: surprising that deep cold doesn't damage their biochemistry.. | 21:09 |
| HeXiLeD | just confirming. only got to the chat now. You are in italy right? | 21:09 |
| python476 | although that's how we store food too | 21:09 |
| ryouma | just saying anything ike that might work. yes, you can put hands together and smile or nod. i know of several virologists who never shook hands. one i knew in the 1990s used this techqnique and recommended it. idk what the others do. --- 12:57 <dividediff[m]> ryouma: That’s the hands together and a nod ? | 21:09 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: thumbs up | 21:10 |
| LjL | python476, the thing is they don't have much biochemistry, that's sort of what i was getting at with that example. a virus is typically not considered a "living" being (although definitions are arbitrary) because of two things: 1) it does not reproduce autonomously, but needs a host to do it for it, and 2) it has no metabolism when it's just spending time around waiting to infect someone. | 21:10 |
| ryouma | LjL: if doctors are a bottleneck anywhere, i would be comfortable with veterinarians. the "after all it is just another species" argument. | 21:11 |
| HeXiLeD | figuinhas: full lockdown tomorrow? | 21:11 |
| sandro_ | %data germany | 21:12 |
| Brainstorm | sandro_: In all areas, Germany, there are 12327 cases, 28 deaths (0.2% of cases), 105 recoveries as of March 18, 19:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 21:12 |
| LjL | python476, to simplify things, maybe too much, a virus is a string of RNA or DNA with some kind of enclosure that helps it get into host cells, and start being transcribed as if it were the cell's genetic material | 21:12 |
| mefistofeles | may I just add *part* of the cell's genetic material | 21:12 |
| LjL | ryouma, they have relaxed a lot of the normal restrictions about which people with a degree in medicine can be co-opted as doctors, but i don't think they've gone as far as veterinarians just yet | 21:12 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, sure, i didn't mean all of it | 21:12 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: I know, just to make things clear | 21:13 |
| LjL | although the cell typically doesn't last very long after the virus starts replicating and eventually making the cell "explode", so it may not have a huge chance to keep transcribing its own genome. but it absolutely depends on the virus | 21:13 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, no the 4.5m distance paper has been retracted! like just about every other paper from China with concerning details about this virus, before it could be peer reviewed or anything! | 21:14 |
| LjL | so you can 1m-high-five me, at least that's under Italy's rules | 21:14 |
| LjL | people who work closer than 1m from each other are entitled to face masks | 21:14 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: woah, I was suspicious of that paper but, still... | 21:14 |
| LjL | if they work further away than 1m from each other then they are not | 21:14 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, well there's also the "infertility paper" (at least that's the feature that i usually see brought up, but it really talks about a number of organs containing ACE2 receptors potentially being damaged or affected) | 21:15 |
| ryouma | a newspaper article said taht the 2 meter rule was from some uncorroborated 1940s paper. i wonder if that is false. | 21:15 |
| LjL | it was published, and then it wasn't | 21:15 |
| ryouma | i.e. the author was saying that it could be more than 2m. | 21:15 |
| figuinhas | HeXiLeD | 21:16 |
| LjL | let's be realistic, any number like that is more of a political social distancing number than something that can actually be accurate | 21:16 |
| figuinhas | not full lockdown | 21:16 |
| LjL | plus, let's be doubly realistic, this *can* still be airborne ;( | 21:16 |
| figuinhas | at least in my country | 21:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 20:15 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The New York Times su Twitter: "Breaking News: The U.S. Senate approved a bill to provide sick leave, jobless benefits, free coronavirus testing and other aid. President Trump is expected to sign it. https://t.co/7dGPm6J3SQ https://t.co/tRciK8SFwf" [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/dbWl9n | 21:16 |
| HeXiLeD | hasnt the pres said something about it ? | 21:16 |
| figuinhas | emergency state was just declared | 21:16 |
| HeXiLeD | ah ok | 21:16 |
| ryouma | where | 21:17 |
| dividediff[m] | What’s your guys favourite corona Spread tracking tool? | 21:17 |
| HeXiLeD | worldmeters | 21:17 |
| figuinhas | this means, the government can implement immediatly | 21:17 |
| HeXiLeD | figuinhas: any PT tv channel tracking anything ? | 21:17 |
| HeXiLeD | and any ptnet chans? | 21:18 |
| LjL | i guess if my favorite one weren't the one in the channel topic, it wouldn't be in the channel topic :P but all the ones in the links there are good for something, imo. ones that are just bad and replicate existing data without adding anything, i haven't listed | 21:18 |
| figuinhas | https://www.rtp.pt/play/direto/rtp1 | 21:18 |
| figuinhas | yes | 21:19 |
| figuinhas | pick 1 | 21:19 |
| figuinhas | it is news time | 21:19 |
| romare | 191 cases in Turkey, 2 death :( | 21:20 |
| romare | it's rising rapidly | 21:20 |
| romare | %data turkey | 21:20 |
| Brainstorm | romare: In all areas, Turkey, there are 98 cases, 1 deaths (1.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 18, 02:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 21:20 |
| dividediff[m] | I wish they was a Way to add Notes about you guys in riot , That would make it easier to remember where everybody’s from | 21:20 |
| xionbox[m] | !cases france | 21:20 |
| ryouma | idk even what riot is | 21:21 |
| dividediff[m] | I have my favourite corona tool bookmarked somewhere... | 21:21 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: riot.im That’s what I’m using to chat here | 21:22 |
| figuinhas | I have no fruit | 21:23 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: importantly for me, it seems to have better emoji support than irc | 21:23 |
| figuinhas | ... and I don't wanna go to the supermarket | 21:23 |
| figuinhas | buy some | 21:23 |
| figuinhas | but I miss fruit | 21:23 |
| dividediff[m] | figuinhas: Order to your house? Buy frozen fruit | 21:23 |
| figuinhas | I don't live in a city | 21:23 |
| figuinhas | they don't do food deliveries here | 21:24 |
| figuinhas | except pizza | 21:24 |
| figuinhas | between Lisbon and Coimbra | 21:24 |
| dividediff[m] | figuinhas: I got it, Call the Pizza Place and tell them you want pineapple. Not a pineapple pizza, just the pineapple | 21:25 |
| dividediff[m] | I Seriously might try this when my fruit runs out | 21:26 |
| figuinhas | no identified cases in town | 21:26 |
| figuinhas | but I started coughing yesterday | 21:27 |
| bin_bash | just order some cans of pineapple dividediff[m] | 21:27 |
| figuinhas | I was advised to wait 2 days | 21:27 |
| figuinhas | before contacting the services | 21:27 |
| figuinhas | I haven't got out of the house | 21:27 |
| figuinhas | except getting a delivery yesterday | 21:28 |
| Strantrickt[m] | %data Turkey | 21:28 |
| Brainstorm | Strantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 98 cases, 1 deaths (1.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of March 18, 02:33Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data. | 21:28 |
| HeXiLeD | any problems in the county ? | 21:28 |
| Strantrickt[m] | 2 dieds | 21:28 |
| rajrajraj | 475 italy ppl dead | 21:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:25 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Italy deaths up by 475, biggest jump anywhere in a single day: Italy death toll approaches 3,000; Portugal declares state of emergency; worldwide cases pass 200,000. Follow the latest updates — from WHO at 20:25: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Ts4VGa | 21:29 |
| figuinhas | HeXiLeD | 21:29 |
| figuinhas | no | 21:29 |
| romare | the world is so fucked | 21:29 |
| romare | we had it coming | 21:29 |
| dividediff[m] | figuinhas: Some people get a nervous cough and likewise, maybe that | 21:29 |
| HeXiLeD | romare: indeed | 21:30 |
| figuinhas | I hope so | 21:30 |
| figuinhas | some people just deny any connection with the corona virus | 21:30 |
| figuinhas | I will wait 2 days | 21:31 |
| figuinhas | if I keep it | 21:31 |
| figuinhas | I will have to contact health line | 21:31 |
| dividediff[m] | How does somebody know when to call the doctor about possibly having corona? I assumed it’s like fever plus cough otherwise EMS is too busy | 21:31 |
| figuinhas | exactly my tought | 21:31 |
| bin_bash | well youd call them when you start to have symptoms. | 21:31 |
| dividediff[m] | figuinhas: You have my best wishes | 21:31 |
| bin_bash | depends on where you live, but theyd probably just tell you to self-isolate | 21:32 |
| dividediff[m] | Any other Canadians online at the moment? | 21:32 |
| HeXiLeD | any problems with canada ? | 21:33 |
| HeXiLeD | what is cooking ? | 21:33 |
| figuinhas | thanks dividediff[m] | 21:33 |
| HeXiLeD | lets hope that covid19 respects people's wishes | 21:34 |
| bin_bash | what lol | 21:34 |
| HeXiLeD | read up | 21:34 |
| bin_bash | i've been following along the entire time | 21:35 |
| bin_bash | the statement doesnt make sense | 21:35 |
| HeXiLeD | then you are missing on sarcasm | 21:35 |
| dividediff[m] | HeXiLeD: each province is responding differently, It seems there is a full travel ban at the moment [have not checked tdys news yet] Some provinces are largely shut down | 21:35 |
| HeXiLeD | wasnt it in BC that there was some 15k people convention and some got infected? | 21:36 |
| bin_bash | fun fact: in case you didnt know, english is not a tonal language so it's pretty difficult to judge sarcasm unless you're already familiar with an individual and their text mannerisms. | 21:36 |
| HeXiLeD | happens. no worries | 21:36 |
| dividediff[m] | HeXiLeD: The general public is extremely sceptical in my experience of corona existing and still go out and do things like conventions and hook ups on St. Patrick’s Day | 21:36 |
| bin_bash | can i offer you an egg in this trying time | 21:36 |
| dividediff[m] | bin_bash: I’ll take an egg | 21:37 |
| zirpu[m] | no, but you could offer me bacon. | 21:37 |
| HeXiLeD | no bin_bash. i only eat the whites. | 21:37 |
| HeXiLeD | dividediff[m]: which province ? | 21:37 |
| bin_bash | sorry the bacon is for me | 21:37 |
| zirpu[m] | ah, that's good then. you have proper priorities. :-) | 21:37 |
| dividediff[m] | HeXiLeD: so the government is doing OK, delayed reaction however. Public 3/10 Performance | 21:37 |
| oriba | JSU-Web-Dashboard looks fucked up now | 21:38 |
| HeXiLeD | gov is always slow everywhere | 21:38 |
| oriba | JHU-dashboard I meant | 21:38 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: I may be biased, but between the stats of worldometers.info and offloop.net I don't see any use in the JHU dashboard now :-) | 21:40 |
| dividediff[m] | my internet crashed and my replies didn't get sent :( | 21:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:31 UTC: (news): Dow briefly wipes out gains under Trump's presidency, remains slightly positive since his election — from WHO at 20:31: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Q4Lf9r | 21:41 |
| dividediff[m] | (or something) | 21:41 |
| dividediff[m] | I've haerd the jap, korean, singapore, madagascar govs have been doing well and have implementing preemtive measures rather than reactive measures to a large extent. Can anyone shed some light on this? | 21:43 |
| bin_bash | madagascar closed ports | 21:43 |
| Albright | Insert Plague Inc memes here | 21:44 |
| kitties | bin_bash: welp, we're all dead :( | 21:44 |
| bin_bash | no | 21:44 |
| bin_bash | it's the exact opposite | 21:45 |
| bin_bash | if madagascar closes ports before getting a case, it's game over for the player not humanity | 21:45 |
| dividediff[m] | Albright: all the memes, but we need greenlanf | 21:45 |
| Albright | Between Madagascar and Greenland, I think I'd rather live in Madagascar. | 21:45 |
| Albright | Warmer and probably more Asian food. | 21:46 |
| dividediff[m] | fun fact; | 21:47 |
| dividediff[m] | vatican city has the 2nd highest infection rate | 21:47 |
| dividediff[m] | they have 1 case | 21:47 |
| ryouma | first is china? | 21:47 |
| figuinhas | which has the highest? | 21:47 |
| ryouma | oh | 21:47 |
| figuinhas | no | 21:48 |
| Albright | Per capita? | 21:48 |
| figuinhas | what about San Marino? | 21:48 |
| dividediff[m] | according to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries | 21:48 |
| figuinhas | so you are talking about states | 21:48 |
| yuriwho | LjL: https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says-1.1408116 | 21:49 |
| dividediff[m] | San Marino 119 cases is num 1 highest rate of infection | 21:49 |
| figuinhas | I believe not much people have first residence in Vaticano City | 21:49 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: JHU is back again... but, yes... | 21:50 |
| dividediff[m] | yea | 21:50 |
| figuinhas | probably more people go to the Saint Peter place (before Corona virus) than people having residence in Vatican city | 21:50 |
| figuinhas | so the numbers might be disturbed | 21:50 |
| dividediff[m] | in my area, the highest crime areas are the boonies with like 100 residents. Cause 1 crime, huge rate lol | 21:51 |
| Albright | Huh, so the US rate is 25 people PER MILLION… that puts things in perpective. | 21:51 |
| dividediff[m] | Albright: yea exactly | 21:51 |
| figuinhas | confirmed cases don't put things in perspective | 21:51 |
| figuinhas | Brazil is the best example of that | 21:51 |
| fructose | Albright: That it's going to get much worse? | 21:52 |
| dividediff[m] | vatican population is 1000 in 2017 ha cute | 21:52 |
| Albright | Well, it's hard to imagine numbers that don't exist. | 21:52 |
| Albright | s/don't exist/haven't been measured/ | 21:52 |
| Brainstorm | Albright meant to say: Well, it's hard to imagine numbers that haven't been measured. | 21:52 |
| figuinhas | so many famous people tested positive... still only 367 confirmed cases / 2 cases per million habitants | 21:52 |
| fructose | Albright: Estimates are useful | 21:52 |
| bin_bash | theyre just guestimates | 21:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:39 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Italy deaths up by 475, biggest jump anywhere in a single day: Italy death toll approaches 3,000; Portugal declares state of emergency; worldwide cases pass 200,000. Follow the latest updates — from WHO at 20:39: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Ts4VGa | 21:53 |
| dividediff[m] | Sudan is gonna get wrecked. 1 case 1 death. i think its sudan | 21:53 |
| bin_bash | i bet hundreds of thousands are infected in the us | 21:53 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: to enhance offllop.net: a fixed witdth legend would bet better, so that the graph will not be kicked away / scaled the legend. | 21:53 |
| fructose | bin_bash: Math | 21:53 |
| ryouma | i alrady can't read the locations on the left du to fewer pixels | 21:53 |
| figuinhas | I believe Brazil is blindfolded fighting this disease, as they have no idea of the amount of people infected | 21:54 |
| dividediff[m] | yea sudan | 21:54 |
| figuinhas | And some concerns to India too | 21:54 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: hrm. Ok. I haven't seen that behaviour. I'll look at doing that then. | 21:54 |
| fructose | figuinhas: Yep, it's going to get much, much worse | 21:54 |
| dividediff[m] | usa has had 127 deaths, corona takes 17.3 days to kill avg sooooo slot of cases | 21:55 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: my legend just extends further off the screen when it increases in size | 21:55 |
| tinwhiskers | oriba: what browser? | 21:55 |
| oriba | tinwhiskers: firefox | 21:55 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh. Me too | 21:56 |
| tinwhiskers | Ok. I'll do that | 21:56 |
| oriba | :-) | 21:56 |
| twomoon | oh god peak mortality rate is still coming | 21:56 |
| twomoon | i thought italy was leveling off | 21:56 |
| AimHere | The reported cases were leveling off, but that might just be a bottleneck in the amount of tests conducted | 21:57 |
| AimHere | Deaths is a more accurate measure, though it's probably got a bit of a delay on it | 21:57 |
| fructose | Where is this data that cases are leveling off? | 21:57 |
| dividediff[m] | AimHere: yea 17.3 day delay | 21:57 |
| dividediff[m] | fructose: new cases slowed yest i think | 21:58 |
| figuinhas | fructose, click in Italy | 21:58 |
| figuinhas | on worldometers | 21:58 |
| figuinhas | you have a graph with daily new cases | 21:58 |
| figuinhas | it seems to havve stabilized | 21:59 |
| figuinhas | daily cases are between 3000-4000 | 21:59 |
| figuinhas | since 14 March | 21:59 |
| fructose | That's not cases leveling off. Adding 3000-4000 every day is still bad. | 21:59 |
| dividediff[m] | figuinhas: figuinhas where is the graph on world meter | 22:00 |
| figuinhas | click in Italy | 22:00 |
| figuinhas | go down | 22:00 |
| yuriwho | I’m really glad they closed the US/Canada border (except for essential trade and work) | 22:00 |
| twomoon | AimHere, i saw deaths leveling off | 22:01 |
| dividediff[m] | figuinhas: oh! | 22:01 |
| twomoon | it was like 370 then it was like 340 | 22:01 |
| AimHere | twomoon, 370 was the highest death increase anywhere at that time | 22:02 |
| dividediff[m] | yea daily new cases still down from peak, but up from yest | 22:02 |
| python476 | pass this around | 22:02 |
| python476 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5-dI74zxPg | 22:02 |
| v0idkr4ft[m] | 2 births a second. We are doomed if we don't slow that down | 22:02 |
| AimHere | And a one-day fluctuation is far too early to say a pattern | 22:02 |
| dividediff[m] | AimHere: yea :( | 22:02 |
| berndj | v0idkr4ft[m], how many deaths a second? | 22:02 |
| twomoon | i didn't expect 475...i was expecting a plateau. like at most 375 | 22:02 |
| ryouma | figuinhas: isn't that also true for most places in us? | 22:02 |
| dividediff[m] | worldometers really is a good site | 22:03 |
| ryouma | (brazil comment) | 22:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:01 UTC: (news): WHO officials warn US President Trump against calling coronavirus 'the Chinese virus' — from WHO at 21:01: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/LyA3uN | 22:05 |
| dividediff[m] | on feb 24, italy's death to recovery rate was really bad, why? | 22:05 |
| twomoon | italy deathrate should have peaked with the lockdown | 22:06 |
| dividediff[m] | was the lock down around feb 24? | 22:06 |
| figuinhas | ryouma, what subject are you referring to? | 22:07 |
| twomoon | the first codogno lockdwon was like in late February | 22:08 |
| twomoon | and that's when ppl started getting serious | 22:08 |
| dividediff[m] | twomoon: makse sense | 22:08 |
| berndj | twomoon, not immediately | 22:08 |
| figuinhas | ryouma, not having a notion of the amount of real cases? | 22:09 |
| berndj | what's the median time from infection to death? | 22:09 |
| dividediff[m] | https://covid19tracker.cc/ has graphs for more countries | 22:09 |
| berndj | s/median/average/ | 22:09 |
| Brainstorm | berndj meant to say: what's the average time from infection to death? | 22:09 |
| dividediff[m] | berndj: 17.3 days | 22:09 |
| dividediff[m] | berndj: 1 s | 22:09 |
| dividediff[m] | My source doesn't list more info about it https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca | 22:10 |
| twomoon | damn that's a long time | 22:11 |
| berndj | dividediff[m], the death:recovery rate can look bad because a death immediately closes a case, but a recovery can be defined arbitrarily long | 22:11 |
| dividediff[m] | berndj: hmm, so italians were dying more around feb 24? | 22:11 |
| dividediff[m] | kinda | 22:12 |
| berndj | dividediff[m], no | 22:12 |
| dividediff[m] | A friend just told me; ~the reason japan/korea are doing better than western countries is cause they shot you if you don't listen~ | 22:13 |
| xionbox[m] | <twomoon "italy deathrate should have peak"> Is it? It doesn't seem to be ... | 22:14 |
| berndj | dividediff[m], the idea is that the # of deaths is a fraction of the # of new infections from t - 17 days | 22:14 |
| berndj | whereas recovieries is a fraction of the # of new infections from t - 21 | 22:14 |
| dividediff[m] | berndj: Whats 21 indicate? | 22:15 |
| berndj | (i'm just making up specific numbers) | 22:15 |
| berndj | days | 22:15 |
| dividediff[m] | ahh | 22:15 |
| dividediff[m] | it's hard to wrap my head around, but i think i get the concept mostly | 22:15 |
| berndj | so today's deaths are based off a much larger number of cases that "really" started 17 days ago, than today's number of recoveries, which are based off a smaller number of cases that "really" started significantly earlier | 22:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:11 UTC: (news): Dow briefly wipes out gains under Trump's presidency, remains slightly positive since his election — from WHO at 21:11: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Q4Lf9r | 22:17 |
| xionbox[m] | berndj: so shouldn't the peak of deaths and cases occur 14 days after the start of the lockdown ? | 22:17 |
| xionbox[m] | ie. after most people start exhibiting symptoms? | 22:17 |
| berndj | xionbox[m], yes, something like that | 22:18 |
| xionbox[m] | 🤞 | 22:18 |
| dividediff[m] | Iceland has a high infection/population ratio | 22:18 |
| berndj | xionbox[m], from https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca there's an illuminating image: https://miro.medium.com/max/3584/1*r-ddYhoUtP_se6x-NOEinA.png | 22:19 |
| dividediff[m] | thanks | 22:19 |
| dividediff[m] | berndj: i read that page, i wish he explained some of his math more like the ^(17/6) thing | 22:20 |
| dividediff[m] | How long does it take to recover on avg? | 22:20 |
| berndj | 17/6 (more precisely 17/6.2) gives the number of doublings | 22:21 |
| berndj | i have no idea how long it takes to recover on average, median, or mode | 22:21 |
| aradesh | chaos caused by panic-shopping in london https://streamable.com/fmhq7 | 22:21 |
| dividediff[m] | berndj: shouldn't it be 17.3/6.2 more more precisely? | 22:22 |
| HeXiLeD | this old bit ... right on the spot https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c | 22:22 |
| berndj | heh, yes indeed dividediff[m] | 22:22 |
| xionbox[m] | berndj: that's a great chart, thx | 22:22 |
| dividediff[m] | aradesh: what date tdid this happen? | 22:22 |
| oriba | aradesh: when I was in school, I learnt londoners would stay in a row politely... | 22:23 |
| Juhdnhdjs | so is there a professional here who could tell us how scared we should be of this | 22:23 |
| aradesh | probably today. it's from a telegraph article | 22:23 |
| dividediff[m] | oriba: ww2 eh? | 22:23 |
| HeXiLeD | Juhdnhdjs: this virus is only taken down the weak. | 22:23 |
| HeXiLeD | that should clarify things | 22:23 |
| dividediff[m] | aradesh: oh snap, social distance yea right | 22:24 |
| Albright | aradesh: That video is terrible. That's not how people should behave at a time like this. | 22:24 |
| dividediff[m] | HeXiLeD: kills elderly, not young mostly | 22:24 |
| HeXiLeD | unlike the spanish influenza | 22:24 |
| HeXiLeD | it is the planet doing its job | 22:24 |
| HeXiLeD | this has happened many times before. diff virus, diff people... always reseting society when we go to far | 22:25 |
| dividediff[m] | Juhdnhdjs: Scared for yourself or others? If just for youself and you're not elderly, you prob will be okay, tho you may still end up with ICU selfies. If you have other health problems, not so good outlook. | 22:25 |
| Juhdnhdjs | im not elderly but i have a parent | 22:26 |
| HeXiLeD | we all do. | 22:26 |
| HeXiLeD | brace for impact | 22:26 |
| Juhdnhdjs | im scared for my parent | 22:26 |
| HeXiLeD | we all are. | 22:26 |
| oriba | Albright: the wish for toilet paper and all civilization is gone ;-) | 22:26 |
| dividediff[m] | Juhdnhdjs: us too. | 22:26 |
| dividediff[m] | Actually, if one is like 60, one's parents may have died from like a stroke years ago and at least they don't have to worry about parents...? | 22:27 |
| Tavis_ | Anyone UK based? | 22:28 |
| dividediff[m] | Juhdnhdjs: you guys are following the social distancing recommendations and not leaving home willynilly right? | 22:28 |
| AimHere | Tavis_, I am | 22:28 |
| LjL | yuriwho, yes, italy keeps saying they're almost all people with at least one comorbidity, but like, "high blood pressure" is one of the most common comorbidities... i think i know more people who suffer of it than people who don't. today Borrelli made a list that went too fast for me to transcribe, but i think he said at least one other thing that seemed pretty inane | 22:28 |
| HeXiLeD | how come worldmeters does not have scotland ? i am told 2626 cases | 22:28 |
| Juhdnhdjs | im not leaving home except to buy food | 22:28 |
| aradesh | Albright: yup :( | 22:28 |
| berndj | is the "wash your hands for at least 20 seconds" thing because there's something about 20 seconds of exposure to soap that kills viruses, or is it something more like it taking 20 seconds on average for a bad hand-washer to actually cover the entirety of their hands? | 22:28 |
| AimHere | HeXiLeD, Scotland is included in the UK figures, and they're about 220 cases or so. | 22:28 |
| aradesh | LjL: it's not everyone with comorbities though is it? | 22:28 |
| AimHere | HeXiLeD, https://corona.scot/ <- here's a scotland-specific dashboard | 22:29 |
| dividediff[m] | AimHere: scotland is gonna be pissed about that ha | 22:29 |
| Tavis_ | AimHere, Hearing much about this potential lockdown next week? | 22:29 |
| LjL | aradesh, do you mean that there are a few dead without comorbidities, or that not all people who have multiple diseases are dying? | 22:29 |
| ubLIX | HeXiLeD: Scottish government says 227 positive tests as of 2pm this afternoon | 22:29 |
| Juhdnhdjs | is anyone having trouble finding food | 22:29 |
| LjL | aradesh, i guess both are technically true anyway, but they claim only 0.8% of the dead did not have at least one thing | 22:29 |
| aradesh | LjL: the former | 22:29 |
| dividediff[m] | Juhdnhdjs: what country r u in? | 22:29 |
| Juhdnhdjs | usa | 22:30 |
| AimHere | Tavis_, don't know about anything more than the School/University lockdown from Friday | 22:30 |
| eaxomar | does 0.8% of the general population not have at least one thing? | 22:30 |
| LjL | yuriwho, oh yeah, Borrelli mentioned "psychiatric condition" as a comorbidity, that's the one that made me go "?!" | 22:30 |
| twomoon | i'll have to look at how italy is definining high BP | 22:30 |
| twomoon | if they think 140/90 is high BP that'd be not cool | 22:30 |
| dividediff[m] | UK ppl; are your schools still open? | 22:30 |
| LjL | yuriwho, next they'll say if you wear glasses you're just at risk | 22:30 |
| aradesh | my dad is stupid. he has all of the risk factors. he's in his 60's, has breathing problems caused by past pulmonary embolisms, is a long-term smoker, has high blood pressure | 22:30 |
| ubLIX | LjL: I think that has to do with the idea that many psychiatric conditions involve not looking after yourself | 22:30 |
| aradesh | and he suggests going to the pub on saturday | 22:30 |
| Tavis_ | AimHere, Theres word from a few people in MOD & MET that they are being breifed on a full lockdown around thurs next week | 22:30 |
| yuriwho | here’s a new epidemic model for Italy that is not very encouraging. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this new pre-print: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.14.20036103v1 | 22:31 |
| dividediff[m] | aradesh: and he still goes out eh? | 22:31 |
| aradesh | dividediff[m]: yup | 22:31 |
| yuriwho | LjL: ^^ | 22:31 |
| twomoon | does soap naturally attack the lipid membrane of the RNA virus? | 22:31 |
| AimHere | Tavis_, Hmm, fair enough. There's press rumours of a London lockdown very soon too | 22:31 |
| yuriwho | twomoon: yes | 22:31 |
| LjL | ubLIX, okay, you can make connections to anything, just like you can keep just about every shop open if you stretch the meaning of "essential" enough. but should you? | 22:31 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: our schools are closed from Friday of this week | 22:31 |
| twomoon | is the lipid membrane of the virus weaker than a bacteria's lipid membrane? | 22:32 |
| LjL | yuriwho, saw, clicked, will celebrate | 22:32 |
| aradesh | i bet my dad would be in like the 20% fatality category | 22:32 |
| Tavis_ | AimHere, Joys!? | 22:32 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: ty | 22:32 |
| dividediff[m] | Juhdnhdjs: good news, usa only has like 25 cases/1 million ppl, so yall still doing okay ATM | 22:33 |
| Juhdnhdjs | the supermarkets are having food shortages | 22:33 |
| yuriwho | I am currently arranging for shopping to be done by a PSW for my mid-50’s brother with schizophrenia and for the Woman (mid 80’s) that cooks and cleans for him | 22:34 |
| berndj | is it high blood pressure per se that's a risk factor, or the drugs used to manage it? | 22:34 |
| yuriwho | both are very high risk | 22:34 |
| twomoon | PSW = ? | 22:34 |
| yuriwho | personal service worker | 22:34 |
| dividediff[m] | Juhdnhdjs: crazy idea, get your dad wasted at home and he'll be too drunk to leave ha | 22:34 |
| AimHere | Juhdnhdjs, actual shortages shortages, or just numpties buying out the stock first thing in the morning? | 22:34 |
| twomoon | i should get a job as a delivery guy or PSW | 22:34 |
| Juhdnhdjs | well i dont know but there isnt canned goods | 22:34 |
| Juhdnhdjs | or face masks | 22:34 |
| yuriwho | twomoon: there will be high demand for both | 22:34 |
| twomoon | i just wanna contribute to the solution | 22:35 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: alcohol especially in the extreme plays havoc with your immune system | 22:35 |
| dividediff[m] | Juhdnhdjs: no food shortages in canada, but some things are low like canned food. | 22:35 |
| AimHere | Juhdnhdjs, I suspect they'll be there tomorrow. But the shops should really be limiting the daily sales per customer somehow | 22:35 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: darn nvm Juhdnhdjs | 22:35 |
| Juhdnhdjs | yes we need daily limits | 22:35 |
| twomoon | i'm young enough to be of low risk of getting bad pneumonia and burdening the health system so i should do some work | 22:35 |
| dividediff[m] | Juhdnhdjs: you guys have food shortages from hoarding | 22:35 |
| dividediff[m] | Juhdnhdjs: ? | 22:35 |
| Juhdnhdjs | i think its form hoarding i guess | 22:36 |
| dividediff[m] | twomoon: working from home would be best | 22:36 |
| twomoon | but other ppl need deliveries | 22:36 |
| berndj | LjL, do italian people tend to put off going to the doctor when they feel sick? (at least, relative to germans) | 22:36 |
| twomoon | i want to keep the amazon delivery system going strong | 22:36 |
| Juhdnhdjs | amazon ran out of food | 22:36 |
| dividediff[m] | Juhdnhdjs: okay, so similar situation here. I should have learnt how to pickle food then i could pickle all the stuff htat is easy to find | 22:36 |
| Juhdnhdjs | no cans in amazon | 22:37 |
| twomoon | that's it my next business is going to be a grocery supply delivery | 22:37 |
| LjL | berndj, i've no idea relative to germans... but i think i've seen two kinds of hypochondriacs, those who go to the doctor all the time, and those who avoid doctors like the plague (which seems appropriate now, they are likely carriers) | 22:37 |
| twomoon | but only for basic essentially items | 22:37 |
| twomoon | essential* | 22:37 |
| Juhdnhdjs | the problem is that in going to the supermarket you could get it there | 22:37 |
| LjL | berndj, in general, seeing your GP is free and relatively easy in Italy, so i assume it's done relatively often on average | 22:37 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: If i get corona, can i drink beer at all? | 22:37 |
| twomoon | i told my mom taht the highest risk zone is the supermarket of all the places she plans on going | 22:38 |
| Juhdnhdjs | so what r u going to do with your mom | 22:38 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: are you serious? | 22:38 |
| Juhdnhdjs | with the food how would she get food then | 22:38 |
| Juhdnhdjs | because amazon ran out of food | 22:38 |
| berndj | LjL, i'm just fascinated by how few deaths germany has had, so speculating far & wide for explanations. i feel like germans tend to go to the doctor quite soon | 22:38 |
| LjL | berndj, in some cases you have to visit your GP just to get a prescription for meds even if you've been taking them for years... GPs in Milan tend to have an in/out "tray" to manage that, though | 22:38 |
| python476 | dividediff[m]: Corona(tm) has probably a few thousand tons of stock to give to you | 22:38 |
| aradesh | i just emailed my dad telling him the pub is an idea, listed his risk factors (age, smoker, blood pressure, lung problems) and suggested we have a drink at his house and don't go out at the weekend | 22:38 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: even if you're young, and you get symptoms severe enough to notice... well good luck getting the hospital nurses to let you drink beer | 22:38 |
| aradesh | that way i can bring some beer and clean the bottles before arriving, lol. | 22:39 |
| aradesh | we'll see how he responds. | 22:39 |
| ubLIX | who drinks beer when they have pneumonia | 22:39 |
| berndj | twomoon, one retailer in my country started an 'elderly only hour' | 22:39 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: i've never looked into illness and alc. I mean if i'm just sick at home | 22:39 |
| Juhdnhdjs | what is everyone doing to keep from getting bored | 22:39 |
| aradesh | a bad idea* | 22:39 |
| yuriwho | I’ve heard of grocery stores for seniors only | 22:39 |
| ryouma | if those who recovered are immune, perhaps they can become a good volunteer or paid workforce | 22:40 |
| twomoon | damn, yuriwho, that paper is projecting out 0.49 overall morbidity for the whole of Lombardia | 22:40 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: if your symptoms are so mild they don't get past mild fever, even then you won't want beer | 22:40 |
| LjL | ubLIX, yuriwho: let me take that as a bit of food for thought. if you have *mild* symtpoms, and they are staying mild, but you strongly suspect it is COVID-19 after all, what will your reaction be, in general? like, if by notifying authorities they'll make you stop drinking beer, and you really like drinking beer, then you might not notify authorities. the beer example is obviously silly but i trust you can envision real scenarios | 22:40 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: ty. Any idea about weed and illness? | 22:40 |
| LjL | this alone may bias the sample even if they weren't restricting testing to people with tons of symptoms | 22:40 |
| ubLIX | honestly though, who drinks beer when they're ill. even if it's just a bad cold | 22:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:39 UTC: /u/slakmehl: James Hohmann su Twitter: "Whoa: The New York Stock Exchange will temporarily close its trading floor and move fully to *electronic trading* after multiple traders tested positive for coronavirus. https://t.co/GmTCrwQ5OJ" — from WHO at 21:39: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/sAB2I8 | 22:41 |
| yuriwho | no CNS depressants (like alcohol) if you have any symptoms, they depress your immune system as well as your breathing | 22:41 |
| dividediff[m] | yuriwho: ty | 22:42 |
| aradesh | i'm curious to see how low the DOW goes :P | 22:42 |
| yuriwho | my bet is 60% below peak | 22:42 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: weed? ymmv. seems risky to me, to be honest (smoking anything, i mean) | 22:42 |
| aradesh | isn't it already like 2/3 down? | 22:43 |
| aeth | 30% to 50% is all but guaranteed, but... we're already at the 30% | 22:43 |
| aradesh | i mean, down to 2/3 | 22:43 |
| aeth | I think the Great Depression was 90%, for reference | 22:43 |
| aradesh | impressive | 22:43 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: ty | 22:43 |
| yuriwho | I mean down to 1/3-2/5 | 22:43 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: i'm not a clinician, or any kind of scientist. it kinda gives me the heebiejeebies when someone thanks me as though i just gave them qualified advice | 22:44 |
| aradesh | right | 22:44 |
| twomoon | berndj, all the normal supermarkets have disinfecting schedules where they close down for an hour or so | 22:44 |
| aeth | yuriwho: 5/15-6/15=-1/15? :o | 22:44 |
| yuriwho | there will be a false hope rally before the markets realize this continues until we have herd immunity from either infection or from vaccine | 22:44 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: i'm aware it's a chat room, normally i'd just thumbs up your msg, but irc don't see the thumbs up | 22:44 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: In optimal circumstances i'd look it up properly or/and ask a dr, but things are busy. | 22:45 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: uhh so *thumbs up* | 22:45 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: but... when you hear weed smokers say was lyrical about its benefits, eg that it can act as an inflammatory, well that seems actually to be true, but i'd worry this is more than offset by inhaling smoke | 22:46 |
| dividediff[m] | Do IRC users see italics? | 22:46 |
| twomoon | yuriwho do you think peak fear in stock markets will correspond with peak mortality rate in US? | 22:46 |
| yuriwho | CBD (Cannabidiol) should be useful as a stress reliever | 22:46 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: actually, i'd say the anti-inflammatory effect is obviously temporary, but the smoke inhalation effect is lasting. and do you want to derange your immune system in a time such as this? | 22:46 |
| yuriwho | twomoon: I have no idea | 22:46 |
| dividediff[m] | yuriwho: I've heard resaerch on CBD is lacking in gernal, too new | 22:47 |
| yuriwho | ^ correct | 22:47 |
| yuriwho | but it does have a relaxing and stress relief effect | 22:47 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: thumbs up | 22:47 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: oh and i forgot something obvious; corona is like mostly a lung disease and smoking is lung related sooooo | 22:48 |
| yuriwho | stay away from high THC weed, it give folks paranoia | 22:48 |
| ubLIX | better to eat it though (if you know what you're doing - dosing could go wildly wrong) than smoke it. i'm not using it, but if i did, i'd go for something edible | 22:48 |
| yuriwho | edibles are far riskier with dosing due to the delayed onset of effect | 22:49 |
| aradesh | yeah stay away from mind altering recreational drugs... focus more on making changes to your life, and fixing the things that make you feel like you want to use them, rather than using them. | 22:49 |
| dividediff[m] | riot.im has a zoom function, which i just stumbled upon! | 22:50 |
| ryouma | the point about dosing, if you are to do anything like that at all, presumably you do so for medical reasons only. but the claim that all you do is fall asleep from an overdose is wrong. you get a highly unpleasant reaction at best. | 22:50 |
| LjL | ubLIX, yuriwho: my point wasn't really about drinking beer or other alcohol... it was a silly example to ask the question: how much of an impact will it have on your "positives" sample that some people are inevitably going to *actively* avoid getting tested, in order to avoid being hospitalized and/or quarantined and/or have their household quarantined? | 22:52 |
| ubLIX | correction from my post several posts ago: "wax lyrical about its benefits, eg that it can act as an anti-inflammatory" | 22:53 |
| yuriwho | yes, and thats why we need random testing LjL | 22:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:49 UTC: (news): NYC mayor pushes for 'shelter-in-place' order as coronavirus cases surge to almost 1,900 — from WHO at 21:49: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/4qUtFl | 22:53 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: What is "wax lyrical " | 22:53 |
| twomoon | in some countries, yuriwho, random testing will spread the disease. if the testing protocol isn't careful | 22:54 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: English language idiom meaning "expound on the wonders of" | 22:54 |
| yuriwho | twomoon: no evidence for that in South Korea | 22:54 |
| ubLIX | LjL: hmm. don't know | 22:55 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: thumbsup | 22:55 |
| pwr22 | tinwhiskers: the UK total line is messed up somehow: United Kingdom;United Kingdom;2626;71;65;1584543185000 | 22:55 |
| dividediff[m] | twomoon: yuriwho; ahh ic, like if evyone just comes and hangs out in a testing lab it violates social distancing. | 22:56 |
| dividediff[m] | yuriwho: korea does testing while ppl are in cars right? | 22:56 |
| yuriwho | dividediff[m]: not sure | 22:56 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], yes, they do, and it seems like it was a successful modality... but presumably that's not the *only* modality, because you're already heavily selecting for people with a driving license | 22:58 |
| dividediff[m] | yuriwho: what happens at the ontario testing arreas? if u know | 22:59 |
| yuriwho | not sure, but they setting up drive thru testing now | 22:59 |
| dividediff[m] | yuriwho: ahh thats good | 22:59 |
| dividediff[m] | Before corona hit, did anyone here know how to pickle food? | 23:00 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: what are the italian police doing in terms of corona? | 23:01 |
| zirpu[m] | add vinegar? | 23:01 |
| yuriwho | I think they are still testing limited in all of North America due to a temporary shortage of RNA isolation kits | 23:01 |
| dividediff[m] | zirpu: surely it's not that easy? | 23:01 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], spot checks, i think i talked about them earlier. they ask people where they are going and why, and we're usually supposed to carry a form we can print from the police website and fill it in with our reasons for being outside. | 23:01 |
| yuriwho | lots of video’s on YT for pickling and fermentation of veggies | 23:02 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: what if someone doesn't own a printer? | 23:02 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], from what i've heard the police will provide you a form and let you fill it in on the spot. which means you'll waste more time, in turn encouraging you to have it pre-printed if you can... | 23:03 |
| twomoon | does RNA isolation require a special chemical that is in short supply? | 23:04 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: Hopefully they let ppl without printers hand write one beofre the checkpoint. | 23:04 |
| dividediff[m] | What is the fire dept up to? | 23:04 |
| LjL | no idea | 23:05 |
| LjL | the thing with not being allowed to go outside is i don't really know much of what's going on outside | 23:05 |
| tinwhiskers | pwr22: thanks. the scraper for worldometers has fallen over - looks like the page layout has changed a bit. I'll get it fixed shortly. | 23:07 |
| dividediff[m] | Anyone here spaniard? | 23:07 |
| dividediff[m] | Or iranian? | 23:08 |
| dmartzol | I am, but I don't live there | 23:09 |
| dmartzol | I'm spanish | 23:09 |
| dividediff[m] | dmartzol: do you keep up with the news over there? I was looking around on yt, but there aren't that much good english coverage | 23:09 |
| python476 | dmartzol: are you in a high infection area ? | 23:10 |
| dividediff[m] | tinwhiskers: you run worldometers? | 23:10 |
| dmartzol | I talk to friends, but I don't watch the their news a lot | 23:10 |
| tinwhiskers | dividediff[m]: no, just scraping data from there | 23:10 |
| aradesh | in the name 19-nCov, is the n for november? | 23:11 |
| dmartzol | python476 I'm in Chicago | 23:11 |
| dividediff[m] | dmartzol: is it basically like italy a few days / 1 week ago? | 23:11 |
| dmartzol | dividediff[m] yes, I would say so | 23:11 |
| dividediff[m] | dmartzol: darn. Think they'll manage to avoid present day italy lvl of problems? | 23:12 |
| ryouma | aradesh: novel maybe? | 23:12 |
| dmartzol | dividediff[m] they "prohibited" to go out unless you have a good reason(work, groceries). I don't think they will avoid that level, or at least not by much | 23:12 |
| LjL | %tr Posso effettuare un ordine? Amazon consegnerà il pacco? Sì, al momento le attività di Amazon proseguono. Tuttavia i tempi di consegna potrebbero essere più lunghi del solito. Non utilizzare indirizzi di consegna relativi a edifici che potrebbero risultare chiusi a causa dei provvedimenti vigenti (esempio scuole). | 23:13 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: Can i place an order? Will Amazon deliver the package? Yes, Amazon's activities are currently continuing. However, delivery times may be longer than usual. Do not use delivery addresses relating to buildings that may be closed due to the current provisions (e.g. schools). (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 23:13 |
| dividediff[m] | aradesh: oh yea novel! i heard novel too | 23:13 |
| LjL | ubLIX, "currently", in italian also translatable more as "for the time being"... | 23:13 |
| aradesh | oh ok | 23:13 |
| pwr22 | *lol | 23:14 |
| pwr22 | <tinwhiskers "Peter Roberts: thanks. the scrap"> Thanks. I was part way through refactoring my bot's data model so now it's a bit of a mess and hard for me to work around ol | 23:14 |
| dividediff[m] | dmartzol: i hope they manage to get thru it better somehow! | 23:14 |
| ubLIX | LjL: surely amazon will carry on at least in some capacity for the duration | 23:14 |
| LjL | ubLIX, probably! they aren't even actually stating on the website that they'll stop stocking "non-essential" items | 23:15 |
| dividediff[m] | It's a darn shame amazon didn't get the drone deliveries set up before corona | 23:15 |
| ryouma | amazon wants to hire 100,000 employees, and is even telling those furloughed from hospitality industries they can work for a while then go backw ehnt heir old jobs open up | 23:15 |
| ryouma | NEW employees | 23:16 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: Did they say how they're gonna socially distance the employees? | 23:16 |
| ryouma | i don't recall they did. it was just a news repo9rt, which probalby means press release. you could try to get the original ona news service. | 23:16 |
| ryouma | but that is just my memory | 23:17 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: i think there is a reasonable chance amazon is gonna be like; "social distancing? Ha no" | 23:17 |
| ryouma | they did say that anybody who can work from home will or something | 23:17 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: i assumed they meant they need ppl who pack up the deliveries | 23:18 |
| ryouma | could be anything | 23:18 |
| ryouma | they have access to goods and they have logistics knowledge. so they could perhaps be quite good at social distancing. | 23:18 |
| ryouma | just a guess though | 23:19 |
| tinwhiskers | pwr22: heh. it's been significantly redesigned so this is going to take a wee while to fix. However, the format of the results is still the same, just not as up-to-date, so that shouldn't affect your coding. | 23:19 |
| ryouma | it would be interesting if a military org or amazon could put up a website for companies on social distancing procedures | 23:20 |
| ryouma | they might have figured some of it out quite well or kept track of the stuff companies are doing | 23:20 |
| ryouma | (and police and military) | 23:20 |
| dividediff[m] | Elon musk on corona: | 23:20 |
| ryouma | not sure i want to hear what em says | 23:21 |
| LjL | LjL on Elon Musk: who cares? | 23:21 |
| yuriwho | here’s a summary of the news behind the ‘millennials’ warning by the US earlier: https://www.statnews.com/2020/03/18/coronavirus-new-age-analysis-of-risk-confirms-young-adults-not-invincible/ | 23:22 |
| dividediff[m] | "scientists in China are now reporting that the new coronavirus does not spare the very young" | 23:24 |
| dividediff[m] | hold the phone, NEW corona virus? | 23:24 |
| mefistofeles | some days ago there was this short discussion about data form an API, this is probably very interesting in that case https://covid19api.com/ | 23:25 |
| mefistofeles | *from | 23:25 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: before it was called SARS-CoV-2, it was called 2019-nCOV, n for novel, ie new | 23:26 |
| dividediff[m] | ubLIX: i thought they meant that it mutate and is now equivalently covid-20 | 23:27 |
| AimHere | dividediff[m], coronavirus is a family of viruses. The current epidemic is just one instance (with a couple of strains) 'The coronavirus' usually refers to the new one | 23:27 |
| dividediff[m] | well good that i read it wrong! | 23:27 |
| pwr22 | <tinwhiskers "Peter Roberts: heh. it's been si"> It's the lack of a field like United Kingdom;;2626;71;65;1584543185000 (no region) that's blowing my stuff up | 23:27 |
| pwr22 | I've assumed there'll always be a total | 23:27 |
| mefistofeles | https://coronavirustechhandbook.com/ I don't really like it but can be put to use for some people here as well. | 23:27 |
| pwr22 | For the country | 23:27 |
| LjL | yuriwho, the bottom line of that, "In Italy, 22% of the population is 65 or older, compared to 17% in the U.S., raising hopes for a less disastrous health care breakdown.", seems a bit... simplistic? | 23:28 |
| ubLIX | dividediff[m]: they say "new" corona virus because there are several existing corona viruses (some of which are responsible for what you know as the common cold) | 23:28 |
| pwr22 | Making my handling more robust is a good thing anyway :D | 23:28 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, just make it that if country == region then remove the region, or if there is no region set it to the same as the country. | 23:29 |
| tinwhiskers | (I didn't quite get which way you preferred) | 23:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 22:25 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Oggi non ci sarà un recap — from WHO at 22:25: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/MSVkkf | 23:30 |
| tinwhiskers | this may have arisen with the recent reduplicating I had to add to account for JH duplicating country data | 23:30 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: today's conference had something to say about that, it seems not to be just the age thing but also something else, I can't remember now exactly... but weren't they implying something on those lines? | 23:30 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, comorbidities? | 23:30 |
| mefistofeles | right, of course | 23:30 |
| mefistofeles | yes | 23:30 |
| mefistofeles | I'm not sure but one would have to check if maybe these related conditions are somewhat more present in italians | 23:31 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, but even aside from that, if the healthcare system is overwhelmed *many times over*, who cares if it's 17% or 22%? | 23:31 |
| mefistofeles | or something like that | 23:31 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: for sure, that's totally true | 23:31 |
| aradesh | it's so weird how coronavirus popped up out of no where. i mean i guess it's not, but it's weird that something like this hasn't happened before | 23:32 |
| ryouma | sars was a big deal | 23:32 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, Italy has one of the highest life expectancies in the world, so you'd expect more older people, and inevitably among those, also more people with other diseases. but i suspect other countries may have more diseases *in general* when you adjust for the fact their population may not be as old... | 23:32 |
| pwr22 | <tinwhiskers "yeah, just make it that if count"> I'll do the first I think | 23:32 |
| pwr22 | I've also made it handle a case where there is no total for a country | 23:32 |
| tinwhiskers | anyway, I've resolved the problem now and it has indeed resulted in the format now not having the "United Kingdom" duplicated in the output | 23:33 |
| ryouma | i have read that tehre are a bunch of artifactual differences in italy. reporting differences. | 23:33 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: yes, but maybe that's why they are older... since they have "survived" more things... I don't know, I'd guess is something to look at as well, but it's probably just a small part | 23:33 |
| tinwhiskers | but you should expect that to be either way, depending on what sites are up or down at the time | 23:33 |
| dividediff[m] | aradesh: pandemics frequently pop out of no where. Hiv | 23:33 |
| LjL | aradesh, but it has, it "just" wasn't viruses with the same characteristics, and/or they were thwarted. SARS, MERS, Ebola, Nipah, as well of course as events further in the past such as the Spanish flu. we sometimes have a "wait, why has X never happened before?" perception when in fact X has happened periodically many times before, just you have to go back enough in history and reconstruct the events | 23:33 |
| aradesh | dividediff[m]: i suppose what makes it difference is how easily it spreads | 23:35 |
| aradesh | whereas HIV is easy to not get | 23:35 |
| aradesh | in comparison | 23:35 |
| dividediff[m] | the rø of hiv is = | 23:35 |
| M_[m]4 | 😁 | 23:36 |
| dividediff[m] | 2-5, | 23:36 |
| dividediff[m] | covid = 1.4-3.9 | 23:36 |
| M_[m]4 | lol | 23:36 |
| M_[m]4 | wrong | 23:36 |
| dividediff[m] | aradesh: so it's easier to get hiv then covid. I think it's cause hiv never goes away | 23:36 |
| M_[m]4 | we don't know | 23:36 |
| aradesh | well, taht's not entirely true is it? | 23:37 |
| dividediff[m] | aradesh: Which part? | 23:37 |
| aradesh | you can't just get HIV by standing near someone who has it | 23:37 |
| aradesh | or by touching a surface they touched | 23:37 |
| aradesh | it's easy to avoid if you know to avoid it | 23:37 |
| ryouma | takes quite a lot to spread hiv. and there are treatments. | 23:37 |
| aradesh | but coronavirus is not | 23:37 |
| M_[m]4 | dividediff: your r naught for corona is made up, imaginary | 23:38 |
| dividediff[m] | aradesh: the rø of hiv is = 2-5, | 23:38 |
| dividediff[m] | covid = 1.4-3.9 | 23:38 |
| dividediff[m] | So maybe i don't understand rø, but i think higher numbers mean it's easier to get | 23:38 |
| aradesh | i'm sure, amongst a group of people woh are all sleeping together, then the HIV will spread rapidly | 23:39 |
| dividediff[m] | ryouma: yea, hiv emerged ~1981 i think | 23:39 |
| ryouma | noticed* | 23:39 |
| aradesh | but that is the important difference :P | 23:39 |
| aradesh | the ease of transfer of covid 19 in comparison | 23:39 |
| M_[m]4 | you definitely don't understand don't understand rø | 23:39 |
| ryouma | teach us | 23:40 |
| M_[m]4 | it's higher | 23:40 |
| dividediff[m] | aradesh: humans recover from covid in idk, ~30 days. But hiv patients don't recover without treatment. that might be why hiv could be higher | 23:40 |
| aradesh | also hiv tends to move more slowly. people perhaps give it to a few people in their life time, if they don't know they have it. but now with testing, people learn they have it, so they stop (hopefully) doing things with other people which will transfer it to them | 23:41 |
| M_[m]4 | <dividediff[m] "aradesh: humans recover from cov"> recover in 30 days, wrong | 23:41 |
| tinwhiskers | dividediff[m]: yeah, I think that explains it | 23:41 |
| python476 | social distancing wage https://newrepublic.com/article/156936/case-social-distancing-wage | 23:41 |
| dividediff[m] | My course, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_reproduction_number, is possibly wrong | 23:41 |
| M_[m]4 | we've seen people get re-infected | 23:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:28 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: Qantas and Jetstar cancel international flights and stand down 20,000 employees – latest updates — from WHO at 22:28: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/V3JCYW | 23:42 |
| cheetah2 | you can prevent hiv by being an incel though | 23:42 |
| M_[m]4 | not outliers | 23:42 |
| aradesh | or a volcel | 23:42 |
| Jigsy | It's times like this I'm glad I'm a NEET. | 23:42 |
| pwr22 | <tinwhiskers "anyway, I've resolved the proble"> Thanks | 23:42 |
| aradesh | just a cel in general | 23:42 |
| aradesh | :P | 23:42 |
| tinwhiskers | it's how many people it spreads to over the time a host is infected. Because HIV lasts for the entire life of the host that pushes the R0 up a lot despite it being far less infectious | 23:42 |
| ryouma | the other thing is, you are not in a location where it has happened perhpas? | 23:42 |
| dividediff[m] | i'm made of cels | 23:43 |
| tinwhiskers | so with an r0 of below 1 that means that on average a host will infect less that one other host, and so a disease will not persist | 23:43 |
| dividediff[m] | tinwhiskers: good explanations. What happens to r0 of hiv if hiv gets a cure? | 23:43 |
| aradesh | you'd think that r0 should mean like... in a situation where nothing is done to control it | 23:44 |
| LjL | they just said on TV that Lombardy has used cell tower locations to figure out whether people were staying home or not, and it found that "only 40% were always within 300 of their home". turns out, maybe, that we are under similar surveillance as China, if someone just decides to turn it on, doesn't it ubLIX | 23:44 |
| dividediff[m] | aradesh: yea thats my theory on it | 23:44 |
| tinwhiskers | aradesh: it is, strictly speaking, but since that is meaningless in a human situation it gets a bit muddied | 23:45 |
| cheetah2 | welll i went to the market and they had some cans so thats good | 23:45 |
| aradesh | so that makes sense. hiv spreading to like 2 or 3 people over a life time, if nothing is done to detect, or prevent it | 23:45 |
| mefistofeles | I have to buy groceries tomorrow, I thought I was going to be able to return to my home country but it doesn't seem like a real possibility now | 23:45 |
| mefistofeles | :/ | 23:46 |
| cheetah2 | where is your home country | 23:46 |
| aradesh | ouch | 23:46 |
| ubLIX | LjL: well, under pandemic conditions, it's easy to imagine the telecomm companies acceding to government requests on this point. Doesn't mean they would routinely in normal circumstances. | 23:46 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: 300 meters? | 23:46 |
| mefistofeles | cheetah2: South America | 23:46 |
| cheetah2 | from where | 23:46 |
| mefistofeles | Germany | 23:46 |
| dividediff[m] | Yall know about snowden and NSA and what not right? | 23:47 |
| cheetah2 | i wouldnt mind being in germany | 23:47 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: cheetah2 ; isn't germany having a rough time w corona? | 23:47 |
| cheetah2 | yeah but they got pretty blondes | 23:47 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], yes, Lombardy is very densely populated, and so are the cell towers | 23:47 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: it depends, I think it's spreading fast, but not many people dying (yet?) | 23:48 |
| dividediff[m] | cheetah2: haha fair | 23:48 |
| mefistofeles | cheetah2: lol, wtf? haha | 23:48 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: 17.3 days infection to death, so it might get crazy. How are the hospitals holding up? | 23:49 |
| LjL | ubLIX, it does mean that there's basically a "switch" that can be turned on to have surveillance on everyone, everywhere. of course you and i probably knew that, having a clue on how a cellular network works, but don't take that for granted. | 23:49 |
| LjL | ubLIX, and also, while this may make it more obvious to people that these things exist, it's also a situation when many people will find the surveillance "useful"... making it much more likely that it is kept later, without much dissent | 23:50 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: it's hard to tell, in this region they seem to be doing pretty well, then again, this city is probably one with the most hospitals per capita in the world :P | 23:50 |
| cheetah2 | is there really any treatment for corona virus | 23:50 |
| mefistofeles | also this isn't the most affected region in Germany | 23:50 |
| dividediff[m] | cheetah2: experimental anti-virals are showing promise. Like malaria meds | 23:51 |
| mefistofeles | chloroquine, right | 23:51 |
| dividediff[m] | mefistofeles: that looks like the name | 23:51 |
| ubLIX | LjL: well the telecomms know where everybody is, all the time; and can link this data to other data they buy from aggregators. Buts are there switches that allow governments access to same? I'd be astonished if that wasn't the governmental norm worldwide. | 23:51 |
| LjL | ubLIX, well, there are distinctions. in the UK you don't necessarily have to tie a SIM to your name, although as you say, it can done via aggregation. in italy, you have to provide ID when you buy a SIM. | 23:52 |
| ubLIX | i believe you have to provide ID when you buy a handset, though, so it comes to the same thing | 23:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:48 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: outbreak like a nuclear explosion, says archbishop of Canterbury — from WHO at 22:48: Every country needs to take boldest actions to stop COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Ts4VGa | 23:53 |
| LjL | ubLIX, oh well i wouldn't know that, i brought my own... you definitely don't here | 23:54 |
| LjL | ubLIX, but also, it took me about ten minutes of internet usage before the carrier decided i was visiting an adult site (and i wasn't even), and even back in 2014 some carriers already implemented a police where you had to give them a proof of age (credit card number, specifically, just to make it safe) for that. | 23:55 |
| dividediff[m] | Italy is number 26 for hospital beds, spain 29, uk 35, canaad 36 | 23:55 |
| LjL | dividediff[m], i think the actual number of hospital beds is more relevant than the ranking | 23:55 |
| LjL | knowing that italy has 3 and germany has 8, per 1k residents, for instance | 23:55 |
| dividediff[m] | LjL: yea | 23:56 |
| cheetah2 | japan beat everyone | 23:56 |
| ubLIX | recall that Snowden's revelations were substantially about the depth of tracking/collating capability going beyond the simple mechanisms we're guessing at here. i'd expect every country has their version of the US systems we now know about (UK certainly does, beyond the five and nine eyes sharing schemes) | 23:57 |
| ryouma | cheetah2: reveal more to us | 23:57 |
| mefistofeles | Taiwan and Korea proudly announced that tracking citizens made them control the spread of the virus | 23:58 |
| mefistofeles | s/made/helped | 23:58 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles meant to say: Taiwan and Korea proudly announced that tracking citizens helped them control the spread of the virus | 23:58 |
| dividediff[m] | does anyone know how korea dealt with it so well? Aside from being #2 in hospital beds? I was looking into it yest, not much info | 23:59 |
| ryouma | from a link above: "up to one-fifth of infected people ages 20-44 have been hospitalized, including 2%-4% who required treatment in an intensive care unit". musk sounds insane. | 23:59 |
| mefistofeles | dividediff[m]: they had these systems since last SARS outbreak already developed | 23:59 |
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