libera/##covid-19/ Thursday, 2020-04-02

aradeshwhat is the definition of median?00:00
Nokajimid, median, mode - three types of average00:00
Nokajimodal00:00
aradeshah ok, i've found it00:01
aradeshwhat's it called when you take the max and min of a range, and half it?00:01
Nokajimedian = the value below which 50% of cases fall00:01
NokajimidDLE ... iirc00:02
aradeshyeah, median is what i thought it was then00:02
Nokajimodal = most frequent value in a distribution00:02
IronYI realized something today, I have had two fears all my life00:03
IronYmostly inspired by hollywood movies00:03
IronYasteroids and pandemics00:03
IronYso of the two00:03
IronYat least we got the more mild00:03
IronY#positiveThoughts00:03
LjL<aradesh> what's it called when you take the max and min of a range, and half it?  ←  that doesn't sound like median, but i'm not sure what you mean00:04
LjLaradesh, aren't you supposed to be some sort of mathematician? :P00:04
ssweeny[m]cough https://www.ibtimes.com/biggest-asteroid-approach-april-arriving-next-week-nasa-reveals-2950426 cough00:05
aradeshLjL: yeah but i forget the terms :P00:05
aradeshow!00:05
aradeshssweeny[m]: careful with all that coughing around here00:05
LjLaradesh, anyway it's what he said, median means that half of the cases are below that number, and the other half above (with provisions being made for odd vs even :P)00:05
aradeshyeah i thought so, i just wanted to check it wasn't that 'middle' thing00:06
ssweeny[m]<aradesh "Scott Sweeny: careful with all t"> Good point!00:06
LjLssweeny[m], bit cheap, the article doesn't seem to mention the estimated odds of it, you know, actually colliding!00:06
aradeshgood night o/00:07
LjLaradesh, night00:07
LjLdon't let the mathematics bite00:07
ssweeny[m]<LjL "Scott Sweeny, bit cheap, the art"> I just saw IronY 's message about asteroids and remembered seeing something in the news about one approaching00:08
ThomCat[m]> During its near-Earth intersection, the asteroid will be about 0.04920 astronomical units from the planet’s center, which is equivalent to around 4.6 million miles away.00:08
ThomCat[m]Please note the Moon is like 200,000 miles away from Earth00:08
LjLssweeny[m], yeah, i mean, i must have said things like "what are we missing now, an asteroid?!" a few times... and the authors of that article probably thought that a few times as well, and checked ;)00:08
LjLif there has to be an asteroid impact please just make it hit me, i don't want deal with the (literal) fallout00:09
ThomCat[m]So almost 20x further than the moon00:09
ThomCat[m]WHy, haven't you been saving up your bottle caps?00:10
LjLkinda00:11
IronYLjL: My intention was not to stress you out more00:16
IronYlol00:16
LjLIronY, no really i'd almost welcome an asteroid00:16
python476https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/markets/stocks/news/economic-life-after-covid-19-lessons-from-the-black-death/articleshow/74870296.cms00:17
python476black death was a boon for the centuries after00:17
python476better wages and higher morale (carpe diem PTSD)00:17
python476I love bloomberg's philosophy :D00:17
LjLpython476, how long did recovery took before it boomed? because it may look like a boom to us from a far-away perspective, but how many years were people still starving and so *after* the epidemic itself ended?00:18
LjLeventually it'll have been a boom because there were more resources and fewer people, but i'm not sure someone who experienced it in their lifetime would have perceived it that way00:18
Nokajiit'll be a new wild west00:19
python476LjL: "not important, better wages overall!"00:20
Nokajimore social climbing00:20
LjLpython476, did you see my link to instant excuse generator for frenchie police?00:20
python476nope00:20
python476are you trying to break our nation ? :D00:21
LjL%fdroid Attestation Coronavirus00:21
BrainstormLjL, Attestation Coronavirus 0.0.3 (com.adrienpoupa.attestationcoronavirus) in https://f-droid.org/repo: Generates the PDF attestation file required by the French government to go out. - updated 2020-04-01, see https://github.com/AdrienPoupa/AttestationCoronavirus00:21
BrainstormLjL, Last time I checked, not all indexes could be downloaded!00:21
LjLpython476, no need, you do that fine on your own00:21
python476that's true00:22
python476"we need no one's help to suck!"00:22
LjLProducts that hadn’t been for mass consumption earlier — such as linen underwear and glass panes in windows — became more widely available as cheap capital rushed to satiate the growing desire to consume00:23
CoronaBot/r/worldnews: As COVID-19 rages, evangelical pastor organization is planning to contact and convert isolated indigenous groups in remote Amazon tribes (5161 votes)00:23
CoronaBothttps://news.mongabay.com/2020/03/as-covid-19-rages-evangelical-pastor-may-contact-remote-amazon-tribes/ | https://redd.it/ft37lz00:23
CoronaBot/r/worldnews: Brazil’s president Jair Bolsonaro is facing a growing backlash over his handling of the coronavirus crisis, with the state governors responsible for more than 200 million of the country’s 210 million people refusing to follow his commands over the pandemic. (5012 votes)00:23
CoronaBothttps://amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/brazil-bolsonaro-ignored-by-state-governors-amid-anger-at-handling-of-covid-19-crisis | https://redd.it/fsxm3v00:23
LjLdoes that mean i may have glass window panes after this?!00:23
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 22:09 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Trump uses coronavirus briefing to issue warnings over drug cartels and Iran – live — from r/WorldNews at 22:09: Israeli forces 'steal coronavirus food aid for needy Palestinians, beat aid workers' → https://is.gd/9kw2cV00:25
dunnpso many bots00:29
dunnpgetting pretty spammy00:29
LjLdunnp, yeah... i am aware there is a problem with this00:30
LjLdunnp, yuriwho: this is the drug that's being talked about the most in italy right now, at least media-wise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocilizumab#COVID-1900:30
ubLIXit is on the TODO: list to ask CoronaBot to consolidate posts into single line, and to not double post00:31
ubLIX^ sYN4P51500:31
LjLubLIX, worst case, i was thinking that i could do some kind of hack where coronabot is muted but +z is set and Brainstorm is opped and it eats up CoronaBot's posts and posts them in a more concise fashion00:32
ubLIXmore work for you, LjL00:33
sYN4P515you can change the threshold for reddit posts if you think its too spammy00:33
IronYyou need a link shortner00:33
LjLwell ideally CoronaBot would do it, but since i write bots too, i can understand customizing too much gets complicated00:33
LjLsYN4P515, it's really more about having the same piece of news on multiple lines for me00:34
IronYor better yet00:34
IronYyou have 4 people who do bots here00:34
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 22:24 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: US coronavirus live: Trump says federal stockpile of protective equipment nearly empty — from r/WorldNews at 22:24: Israeli forces 'steal coronavirus food aid for needy Palestinians, beat aid workers' → https://is.gd/9kw2cV00:34
IronYsomeone open up the source to their bot00:34
IronYand we can consolidate00:34
LjLi think i'd be fine with just the redd.it link, and without the full link, on the same line as the headline00:34
sYN4P515ok i'll consolidate in a single line00:35
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +1709 cases (now 932766), +52 deaths (now 46838), +142 recoveries (now 193891) — US: +1383 cases (now 212791), +41 deaths (now 4759) — California, US: +847 cases (now 9551), +22 deaths (now 206)00:37
CoronaBot/r/worldnews: France has converted its high-speed TGV trains into ambulances to transport critically ill coronavirus patients across the country (5041 votes)00:41
CoronaBothttps://www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-france-high-speed-tgv-trains-moving-hospitals-2020-3?r=US&IR=T | https://redd.it/fsytj300:41
LjLsigh00:51
LjLthey can transfer patients "across the country" and we can barely move a couple to the region next door (IF they want them)00:51
LjLpython476, centralization: 1, balkanization: 000:51
LjLalso, our high speed trains have windows that blow up if the enter tunnels faster than 160km/h, last i checked00:51
LjLi suspect that might be in breach of isolation protocols00:52
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +546 cases (now 933312), +14 deaths (now 46852) — Alabama, US: +7 cases (now 1084), +2 deaths (now 28) — Argentina: +3 deaths (now 31)00:52
JigsyI've noticed that cars aren't respecting social distancing rules.00:53
IronYLOL Jigsy I thought about that today00:53
AimHereThey don't have to00:53
IronYsomeone was on my ass00:53
IronYin my mind im like f*** man , a meter or more please00:54
JigsyAimHere: I disagree. People should be driving 2m apart.00:54
JigsyJust to be extra pedantic. :300:54
AimHereJigsy, you can disagree all you want, but automobile to automobile transmission hasn't been detected yet, so it's okay00:54
LjLbased on https://www.infodata.ilsole24ore.com/2020/03/18/43371/ although the article itself is outdated (and optimistic), there is an updated graph that would place COVID-19 as the 4th leading cause of death in Italy00:55
LjLalthough that's based on total deaths, and not deaths "as certified by the ISS", which are a small minority compared to what's normally reported, but that is also a bit of a joke, since by their own wording, whenever someone has a comorbidity that may be enough to stop it from being considered a COVID-19 death00:56
IronYLjL: How do we calculate AIDS deaths00:57
LjLa decent question. i'd say you'd have to do something involve subtracting, for each "apparent" cause of death, the baseline of that particular cause of death in the general population00:58
LjLso the death rate "due to AIDS" that shows up as cancer is the death rate from cancer in people with AIDS minus the death rate of cancer in the general population00:58
LjLthen, do that for every apparent cause of death, and average in a mathematically sound way00:59
IronYso basically the detla on the healthy average00:59
IronYmakes sense00:59
LjLit is similar to one way of estimating effective COVID-19 deaths, although it's difficult00:59
LjLyou can look at average mortality, and see how much more we have at this time01:00
LjLthat'll let you see if we have a spike in mortality that's even higher than the officially registered COVID-19 deaths (because there are some that weren't identified and/or because there are other causes of death related to the COVID-19 emergency, such as inability to call an ambulance in time)01:00
LjLbut at the same time, we have lockdowns in most places now, and that means you might have fewer deaths from things like car accident01:01
LjLso it gets tricky01:01
IronYsomething like 3000 deaths a day01:01
IronYdue to car accidents01:01
IronYI went on that tangent a little awhile ago01:01
LjLyeah i assume some of those still happen, like for instance some days ago two police cars had an accident in Milan01:01
LjLand i almost didn't gloat at all01:01
IronYI still feel fairly positive, if you subtract all deaths that are 100% avoided by not leaving your house, and add all pregnancies that will occur from people not leaving their house01:02
IronYwe may come out of this at a population net gain01:02
tinwhiskersdamn coronials01:02
IronY^ I hope I get to say that in 15 years01:02
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +928 cases (now 934240), +29 deaths (now 46881) — US: +1117 cases (now 213908), +29 deaths (now 4788) — Florida, US: +818 cases (now 7773), +14 deaths (now 101)01:07
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 23:00 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Italy records lowest daily increase in deaths in a week as known global cases pass 900,000 — from r/WorldNews at 23:00: Spain eclipses 100,000 confirmed coronavirus cases today → https://is.gd/HcP57U01:07
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +557 cases (now 934797), +55 deaths (now 46936) — US: +557 cases (now 214465), +55 deaths (now 4843) — Alabama, US: +7 cases (now 1084), +2 deaths (now 28)01:22
nb%cases indiana01:23
BrainstormNameError: global name 'cases' is not defined (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 190, in covid)01:23
nbI thought that was the command?01:23
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 23:14 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: NSW police say lockdown orders will last 90 days as national cases near 5,000 – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 23:14: Spain eclipses 100,000 confirmed coronavirus cases today → https://is.gd/YVYphh01:23
ubLIXit is01:24
ubLIX^ LjL01:24
ryoumaLjL: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-range01:26
ryoumaara01:26
tinwhiskersThe mid-range is rarely used in practical statistical analysis, as it lacks efficiency as an estimator for most distributions of interest, because it ignores all intermediate points, and lacks robustness, as outliers change it significantly. Indeed, it is one of the least efficient and least robust statistics01:31
LjLlol, looks promising01:31
LjLubLIX, turns out the variable is called "confirmed", and not "cases"01:33
LjL%cases indiana01:33
BrainstormLjL: In Indiana, US, there are 2565 cases, 65 deaths (2.5% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 01, 00:05Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.01:33
LjLnb, ↑01:33
ubLIXvar1, var2 .. var9307 along with a booklet listing their uses is so much simpler :p01:37
LjLubLIX, don't be silly01:38
LjLthat needs to be var0, var1 .. var930601:38
ubLIXoops01:39
nbLjL, thanks01:41
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 23:38 UTC: (news): White House advisor Fauci says coronavirus vaccine trial is on target and will be 'ultimate game changer' — from r/WorldNews at 23:38: Covid-19 effect dips: China reopens markets selling bats, cats and dogs → https://is.gd/ywb5ny01:45
LjLhttps://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52126735 ← WHO discovers cough and sneezes travel longer than one meter, and face masks may stop them01:45
LjLif only we had made these tremendous medical advances *before* the pandemic...01:45
PlanckWalkHeh01:46
tinwhiskersubLIX, LjL; back when I worked in support one person named all their files 001.doc, 002.ppt etc, and have a little notebook in which they said what each file was. I cursed them out about it so badly they cried :-/01:49
LjLaw01:49
tinwhiskersyeah. oops01:49
ubLIXoh. i thought i was joking01:49
tinwhiskersI so wanted to steal the notebook just to make a point01:49
LjLi do the same01:51
LjLexcept i keep the notebook itself on my computer01:51
LjLand i call it a file allocation table01:51
tinwhiskerslol01:51
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 23:44 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: US coronavirus live: Trump says federal stockpile of protective equipment nearly empty — from r/WorldNews at 23:44: Covid-19 effect dips: China reopens markets selling bats, cats and dogs → https://is.gd/9kw2cV01:51
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +580 cases (now 935377), +263 deaths (now 47199), +98 recoveries (now 193989) — Alabama, US: +24 cases (now 1108) — Argentina: +79 cases (now 1133), +1 deaths (now 32)01:53
AimHereUSA is the first country to break the 1000 deaths/day barrier01:56
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 23:51 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Should the UK use drones to disinfect public spaces? — from r/WorldNews at 23:51: Covid-19 effect dips: China reopens markets selling bats, cats and dogs → https://is.gd/0Fw9HR01:57
ynhttps://blog.ircpuzzles.org/2020/04/2020-april-fools-live/02:00
sYN4P515LjL changed reddit announcement to single line and short link only02:02
jbjllkhttps://www.bbc.com/news/world-5123510502:06
bin_bashdo you think when we can gather again we'll get protestors shouting "CHINA LIED AND PEOPLE DIED"02:07
pokiehlThe virus hasn't even been proven to have originated in china, so that happening would be worrisome.02:08
bin_basheveryonw knows it started in China02:09
bin_bashAND China has been lying about numbers from the start02:09
bin_bashNot to mention trying to cover it up in the beginning02:09
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 00:00 UTC: Music: Singer Adam Schlesinger, of Fountains of Wayne, dead at 52 of coronavirus — from r/WorldNews at 00:00: Covid-19 effect dips: China reopens markets selling bats, cats and dogs → https://is.gd/hzk5Xv02:10
jbjllkhttps://www.bbc.com/news/business-5170622502:10
ubLIXbin_bash: in reverse order, that wasn't China, that was local government; it is too early to say that, or just disingenuous to use the word 'lying'; everyone knows it was first conspicuous in China02:12
pokiehlIf anything they're lying about new cases02:14
bin_bashubLIX: local government covered it up AND the CCP did too. They encouraged the lunar new year celebrations knowing full well what was going on. Friends of mine FROM CHINA have been horrified at the situation and handling02:14
ubLIXas much as anyone, I too want to know comprehensive and well validated details for these questions02:15
bin_bashthey've been lying about everything from the start, which is unfortunately par for the course with them02:16
ubLIXi will wait for the historians02:17
bin_bashwhat is that supposed to mean02:17
ubLIXjust that their view will be clearer than ours02:17
bin_bashso you just want to wait 100 years?02:18
ubLIXi'm sure the view will become clearer with each passing year02:18
bin_bashAre you really expecting anything other than what I've just said?02:19
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 00:14 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: two deaths take toll to 23 as NSW police say lockdown powers to last at least 90 days – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 00:14: Russian plane with coronavirus medical gear lands in U.S. after Trump-Putin call → https://is.gd/YVYphh02:22
ubLIXi have not been focused on questions of balance in geopolitics, and i have no expectations as of yet02:23
oribaAdjoint-based Data Assimilation of an Epidemiology Model for the Covid-19 Pandemic in 2020 -> https://zenodo.org/record/373531702:27
oribaLjL: the above link might interest you02:28
oribamefistofeles: the above link might interest you02:28
CoronaBot/r/worldnews: Be prepared to stay inside for up to three months, Toronto's top doctor warns (5048 votes) | https://redd.it/ft1to902:31
synaps3%data Serbia02:35
BrainstormNew bulletins for US: +538 cases (now 215003), +259 deaths (now 5102), +73 recoveries (now 8878) — Alabama, US: +24 cases (now 1108) — Argentina: +79 cases (now 1133), +1 deaths (now 32)02:35
Brainstormsynaps3: In all areas, Serbia, there are 1060 cases, 28 deaths (2.6% of cases), 42 recoveries as of April 02, 00:29Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Serbia for time series data.02:35
ubLIXsubject matter aside, that looks rather nice, sYN4P51502:38
sYN4P515the short style reddit post ubLIX ?02:38
ubLIXmhm02:38
sYN4P515cool, glad you like it02:38
sYN4P515i can always add enhancements and fixes - just let me know02:38
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 00:33 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 930,000 as Singapore reports its 1,000th case: Singapore been praised for its handling of the crisis early by implementing strict quarantine measures and rigorous contact tracing efforts. → https://is.gd/TewjEi02:41
ubLIXfussy enough as it is, don't encourage me :p02:41
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 00:45 UTC: (news): White House advisor Fauci says coronavirus vaccine trial is on target and will be 'ultimate game changer' → https://is.gd/ywb5ny02:47
IronYwell on the plus side I do not owe the gov any money for taxes this year02:47
IronYon the down side I do not get much money back02:47
v0idkr4ft%data world02:48
Brainstormv0idkr4ft: In all areas, World, there are 935741 cases, 47204 deaths (5.0% of cases), 193989 recoveries as of April 02, 00:29Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 19.6% (considering only deaths and recoveries).02:48
bin_bashIronY: that sounds like a mostyl good thing02:50
penny_wuts ur net02:50
IronYin the low 100s02:51
IronYi took 3 months off02:51
penny_$02:51
IronYI worked 2 full time jobs in 2018 as a consultant so I took 3 months off at the start of 201902:51
IronYaround this time last year, I was doing the same thing, except it was by choice not because the world was fucked02:52
penny_how long do u figure this chaos bc people cant make money02:52
penny_derp. how long do you think the shutdown can last before chaos bc people cant make money02:53
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 00:47 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 930,000 as Singapore reports its 1,000th case: Singapore has been praised for its handling of the crisis early by implementing strict quarantine measures and rigorous contact tracing efforts. — from r/WorldNews at 00:47: The USA just crossed 1000 deaths in one day from Coronavirus → https://is.gd/TewjEi02:53
IronYpenny_: I somehow have a household with 2 people and 3 incomes still02:54
IronYnot everyone is not making money02:54
IronYmost people02:54
penny_true02:54
IronYnot everyone02:54
IronY(I am going to be 100% honest, i wish i was laid off)02:54
penny_so many people that it cant last all mthat long i would think02:54
penny_sure i understand02:54
penny_maybe the government can send people supplies directly like in a war02:55
IronYI could go about 8 months on savings even if the gov gave me 0 dollars02:55
IronYhow ever the gov would give us 2k each a month if we were laid off02:55
penny_nice02:55
IronYso honestly, with no entertainment / take out budget, I could come out of this with out taking to much of a hit if it does not last longer than a year02:56
penny_yeah but wouldnt society collapse if a majority of people cant make a living?02:56
penny_maybe we could just cut them checks02:56
IronYIn canada we are02:56
penny_people arent just going to sit in their house and starve02:56
IronYeveryone who is not making money is getting basically a univeral income of 2k a month02:57
penny_wow nice02:57
IronYthey also stopped all student loan payments02:57
IronYand the hydro company got rid of off peak hours02:57
IronYtechnically I am going to save money on bills02:57
penny_is this what ur talking about? https://brobible.com/culture/article/canada-stimulus-checks-more-americans/02:58
IronYhttps://www.canada.ca/en/department-finance/economic-response-plan.html02:58
IronYthere are two classes02:58
IronYpeople who already would be eligible for EI (Employment Insurance), which would include me and my wifey02:59
IronYand people who are not eligible (self employed, unemployed, under employed, part time with not enough hours etc)02:59
IronYeveryone gets something02:59
IronYthe top one gets more02:59
penny_so do you think it could be indefinite then?03:00
IronYyep, the advantage of already living in a socialist country03:00
IronYthe states is trying to do an entire paradigm shift03:00
IronYwe are just adjusting already existing structures03:00
penny_well this is making me more optimistic03:01
IronYSuper convenient we legalized pot and tax it03:02
IronYsure that helped quite a bit03:02
penny_so by just giving people cash it seems like we could in theory be shutdown for a long time03:03
IronYit is going to hurt the people who have saved buckets of money though03:04
IronYsince inflation will cause those people to technically lose buying power03:04
penny_theyll survive lol03:04
penny_but would it even cause inflation? bc its not even going to replace the wages they were earning before03:05
IronYgov has to get money from somewhere03:06
IronYso central banks print more money03:06
IronYthus devaluing existing money03:06
penny_they could raise taxes03:06
IronYlowering taxes is the other part of the stimulus03:06
IronYcannot bail people out while taxing them more :P03:06
penny_or cut some non essential spending03:06
IronYOh I am sure that is all part of it03:06
penny_tax them later oc03:06
IronYbut no matter what, inflation will occur03:07
penny_why do u say that?03:07
tinwhiskersif the govt prints money then it will lead to inflation but I don't think that's the only option03:07
penny_ya03:07
penny_raise taxes 1% on the top bracket to pay for it over 10 years or something03:07
penny_its like a war03:07
tinwhiskersunfortunately that probably wouldn't help a lot, but it's a good start anyway03:08
penny_spend now for the emergency pay it off later03:08
IronYthe issue there is:03:09
IronYDuring a war you do this to put money into your war effort / defense budget03:09
IronYWe are now putting that kinda cash into a covid effort, but our spending on defense should also increase03:09
penny_this is part of the war effort on this virus03:10
penny_supplying our citizens so they can stay home03:10
IronYhow many wars is the states currently fighting for example03:10
IronYthis is a global crisis, now is kinda the time u want your borders defended the most03:10
LjLthe states... increasing... military budget... now?03:10
IronYso yeah they can cut back on foreign expenses but they still need to defend foreign investments03:10
IronYLjL: Not claiming that, but they are certainly not decreasing I would imagine03:11
IronYcanada is calling most of its people home03:11
penny_let me do some numbers03:11
penny_i mean wouldnt yang's 1000/mo be enough?03:11
IronYlol if the united states said hey, lets just cancle all military defense spending03:11
penny_if we could pay for that with the VAT tax then we could do it now03:12
IronY649 billion dollars03:12
IronYbecomes instantly available03:12
IronYversus italy, at 27.803:12
IronYand canada at 27.603:12
penny_well u could certainly cut some of that nonsene but not the whole budget03:12
IronY21.6*03:12
IronYhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures03:12
penny_so yeah exactly we have the money right there03:13
IronYitaly and canadas budgets are nothing compared to the already existing stimulus injections03:13
penny_between a mill budget cut and a modest tax increase we should be able to pay for it03:13
IronYthe united states could make some money back cutting back03:13
penny_if yang's permanent 1000/mo was affordable than a temporary one should be even more affordable03:15
penny_this way we could shutdown until there's a vaccine or cure03:16
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 01:20 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: two deaths take toll to 23 as NSW police say lockdown powers to last at least 90 days – latest news [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/YVYphh03:24
swift110WPW03:25
swift110wow03:25
swift11090 days really sucls03:25
tinwhiskersyeah. 90 days... bummer.03:26
penny_90 days will almost certainly just be the beginning03:29
tinwhiskersyeah03:30
swift110wow03:30
penny_unless govs decide to reopen their economy before a cure or vaccine is found, but that would just mean the curve would steepen again03:30
tinwhiskersbut there may be a brief easing of restrictions from time-to-time depending on strategy03:30
penny_yeah def03:30
swift110I recently lost my job due to Covid-19a and eagerly look forward to all this being over.03:31
swift110But we can't get to that point if people refuse to apply common sense principles to their life without being told by the government to do so.03:32
penny_https://au.finance.yahoo.com/news/will-coronavirus-force-australia-to-have-permanent-ubi-202657769.html03:32
tinwhiskerswell, the governments are largely just playing delaying tactics at this point03:32
swift110So we don't need people bringing their entire families to the supermarket.03:33
tinwhiskersThis is a breath of fresh air: https://medium.com/@wpegden/a-call-to-honesty-in-pandemic-modeling-5c156686a64b03:33
swift110Certainly don't bring babies and small children in there03:33
swift110I would say go for a nice nature walk with the kids but then you have the problem of them needing to use the bathroom03:34
penny_>A keen figure-reader will notice something peculiar in Kristof’s figure. At the tail end of his “Social distancing for 2 months” scenario, there is an intriguing rise in the number of infections (could it be exponential?), right before the figure ends.03:34
penny_dood i literally had this exact thought when i saw that graph03:34
swift110I'm upset about this also because I normally have family over and I can't do that for now03:35
penny_tinwhiskers so what do u think we will stay shutdown until a vaccine or cure is found which would likely be a year at least i understand, or would they just accept more deaths at a certain point and reopen with hopefully a lot more hospital capacity03:37
LjLdon't think any country can stay shut down a year03:38
LjLmy hope is we can stay shut down until a decent treatment is found03:38
penny_and why exactly is a year too long?03:38
LjLbecause it's exactly 365 days03:39
Chromaninincome?03:39
LjLi mean what should i even say03:39
penny_thats what i thought too but what about just giving out checks?03:40
LjLsure let's print nonexistant money03:40
LjLwhy didn't we think of that sooner03:40
LjLwhy work? let's just print money!03:40
penny_well we could sell bonds03:40
penny_and then raise taxes03:40
LjLon the virtual money we got from the virtual checks?03:41
tinwhiskerspenny_: I think we'll have some treatments well before the vaccine is ready03:41
penny_also cut the mill budget some03:41
penny_tinwhiskers wow why do you think that?03:41
tinwhiskersor we'll take a risk and fast-track the vaccine testing03:41
penny_if we can print money to fight the iraq war why cant we print money to send out checks?03:41
penny_if we can print money to bail out banks why cant we send out checks?03:42
penny_the money kept working just fine03:42
penny_there wasnt crazy inflation03:42
ryoumathen you violate stay at home order to deposit it?03:42
penny_ryouma is direct deposit possible?03:42
twomoonlol ljl03:43
penny_cant you cash a check with your phone these days?03:43
LjLi'll ask again: if we can just survive an indeterminate amount of time without working, by just printing money instead, then why were people even working before?03:43
tinwhiskersbetween *chloroquine, and nafamostat-like drugs with the various mixes of other drugs they have been using I think the death rate will drop quite a bit03:43
penny_well essential workers would be working03:43
LjLthe problem with THIS is "cashing the check", seriously?03:43
penny_and thats all u could buy03:43
twomoonwhat is nafamostat03:43
penny_tinwhiskers that would help a lot03:43
tinwhiskersNafamostat mesylate (brand name: Fusan), which is the drug used to treat acute pancreatitis, may effectively block the requisite viral entry process the new coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2) uses to spread and cause disease (COVID-19). The University of Tokyo announced these new findings on March 18, 2020.03:43
tinwhiskershttps://www.u-tokyo.ac.jp/focus/en/articles/z0508_00083.html03:43
ryoumai don't even know what the usa is doing in iraq and afghanistan exactly.  like, what the precise goal is (with no conspiracy theories, just geopolitical expertise).  i'd like to. i just don't know the rationale.03:44
CoronaBot/r/worldnews: Oceans can be restored to former glory in one generation, finds major study (5053 votes) | https://redd.it/ft1kdg03:44
LjLtinwhiskers, *chroloquine isn't proving too great from the little i've followed of the actual trials of it... not sure about the other one you said03:44
penny_ryaneo its complicated do some research03:44
Chromanin%data lebanon03:44
BrainstormChromanin: In all areas, Lebanon, there are 479 cases, 14 deaths (2.9% of cases), 43 recoveries as of April 02, 01:30Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lebanon for time series data.03:44
penny_why all the hate on the checks?03:44
ryoumalol is this a real question?  --- 18:43 <LjL> i'll ask again: if we can just survive an indeterminate amount of time without working, by just printing money instead, then why were people even working before?03:44
penny_this seems like the most viable way of indefinite shutdown to me03:45
ryoumawhere are you going to get your tp from if nobody works?03:45
LjL!r setvotes worldnews 1000003:45
CoronaBot,01[OK] Successfully changed /r/worldnews min votes to 1000003:45
penny_tp production must be essential03:46
LjL"all the hate on the checks"?03:46
LjLthis is getting too close to trolling for my taste03:46
tinwhiskersLjL: there have been two controlled studies of chloroquine. The first showed no difference but was criticised. The second did show a benefit, but also the treatment they have been using in practice is not just chloroquine, and apparently works even better. It's not looking like just rumours but it's too early to be entirely sure.03:46
tinwhiskersI've lost the useful link I had about it.03:47
twomoonhmm pancreatitis drugs....seems like a rare class of drug03:47
penny_you seem to just be hoping for miracle ljl03:47
ryoumathe hydroxy?03:47
tinwhiskersLjL is being a realist03:47
LjLtinwhiskers, okay... yuriwho linked some kind of preliminary meta-review on hydrochlorequine and it didn't look too encouraging but tbh i have only read the summary03:47
penny_"no country can stay shutdown for a year" ok so then what if it takes that long or longer to develop a vaccine or cure?03:47
penny_no i am tinwhiskers03:47
LjLpenny_, uhm, YOU seem to be hoping for miracles by thinking that the world can continue working by magic by just "printing checks"03:48
tinwhiskersHim being a realist doesn't preclude you also being a realist03:48
penny_its worked that way for close to 100 years03:48
LjLno it hasn't03:48
tinwhiskersthat drive inflation. We do not want hyperinflation03:48
penny_what do you mean?03:48
LjLwhat bollocks are you spouting03:48
LjLwe haven't been shut down for 100 years03:48
penny_it's not that much money!03:48
ryoumaare armies doing ok?  i would imagine if everybody is quarantined before entering, and never leaves base (big if), and the... whatever they call the stores in armies... decontaminate, then they don't get sick.03:48
penny_no im saying weve had fiat currency for that long03:48
ryoumacommissary or wahtever03:49
LjLfiat currency doesn't mean "keep printing money and don't care about actual lack of any resources backing that money"03:49
penny_yes they print the money and it still works as money03:49
tinwhiskersryouma: there's a navy ship with 100 cases and it's spreading but they are not allowed to dock anywhere03:49
LjLoh good lord03:49
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 01:41 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 930,000 as Singapore reports fourth death: Singapore has been praised for its handling of the crisis early by implementing strict quarantine measures and rigorous contact tracing efforts. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/TewjEi03:49
LjLmove this to some economics channel03:49
penny_i never said that at all03:49
penny_well it's really quite intertwined with the medical side of this03:49
penny_the economics03:49
twomoonljl this was just getting interesting03:49
LjLokay then continue listening to nonsense, i'll check back later03:50
penny_if we can print money for a war or a bailout why not basic income?03:50
twomoonyeah btw it does seem like chloroquine is always used in conjunction with some other drug. why is that?03:50
twomooni don't get that when that chinese paper suggests that chloroquine allow is quite effective03:51
ryoumai'd vote for moving economics talk to economics channels, if i were asked, wihch i wasn't.  but, if a high enough income is given to everybody, then i die.  just so you know.  i have to hire helpers to survive.03:51
tinwhiskerswithout directly printing money you can increase the velocity of money to make it "go further". This does also have an inflationary pressure but given the timeframe we're talking about it may not be so bad.03:51
twomoonchloroquine alone*03:51
twomoonmoney velocity doesn't make money go further it just increases the pace of inflation or deflation03:52
penny_its not that much money inflation isnt a big issue03:52
ryoumatinwhiskers: what do you do to do that?03:52
tinwhiskersyou give people money to spend rather than to save03:52
twomoonand if people are planning to hoard money increasing velocity just makes ppl hoard faster03:52
penny_higher money velocity with static money supply does indeed increase gdp03:53
tinwhiskersyou only give them enough that they have to spend it03:53
penny_most of the economy would be shutdown too which is a weird variable03:53
LjLtinwhiskers, do you believe any of these things can be sustainable for *a year*?03:54
ryoumaone thing that disturbs me, not too surprising but still disturbing, is the degree to which this is NOT a blitz spirit type of response to a pandemic, but one in which everybody who has an axe to grind (politicians seeking or keeping power, ideologues pushing for pet theories, dogmatists imposing pet dogmas, etc.) uses the pandemic for the purpose of grinding that axe.  discussions of the pandemic then become proxy03:54
ryoumadiscussions for some political thing that isn't really at root about the pandemic.03:54
tinwhiskerswell, that's pretty much what we're doing now anyway. we shall see.03:54
twomoontinwhiskers: do you think the US makes sense in basing their stimulus amount that each person gets off their 2019 tax return?03:55
twomoonthat to me makes no sense03:55
penny_LjL just an hour ago i didnt think a year long shutdown was possible either03:55
tinwhiskersI think the right thing to do is to keep the economy moving by protecting the most vulnerable and letting the less vulnerable participate at a higher rate than they could otherwise.03:55
penny_now i think it MIGHT be possible ;^)03:55
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 01:52 UTC: ljl-covid: Create therapeutics section, for now randomly adding Nafamostat — from r/WorldNews at 01:52: Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people → https://is.gd/PZbCSa03:55
twomoontinwhiskers: that's basically saying give an equal amount of money to everyone. in which case, i think you'd agree that basing the stimulus amount off the 2019 tax return is silly03:56
twomoonis nafamostat in the class of statin drugs?03:56
tinwhiskerserr, I don't know about the US situation.03:57
twomoonok nevermind i can't expect you to know everything03:57
penny_LjL what about the government shipping supplies directly to people03:59
LjLpenny_, i would be in favor of that because i think supermarkets are a major point of contagion04:00
ryoumadoes not look like it is a statin04:01
ryoumaquick search04:01
LjLbut i don't think that solves the economical problem of staying locked down for a year04:01
penny_well what would go wrong?04:01
LjLthere is also likely a major psychological problem with that, just to mention it04:01
penny_explain04:01
ryoumawas concerned about this type of thing "Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people"04:02
marchelzobased04:02
LjLdepression. suicides. widespread loss of jobs. hyperinflaction with your money printing. lack of exercise causing deaths from the main standard ailments. lack of sun exposure causing all sorts of mood disorders.04:02
LjLi can probably think of other things04:02
penny_hypeinflation makes no sense04:02
penny_demand is in the toilet04:02
penny_everyone wants cash04:02
LjLdemand is in the toilet? is that why i cannot access supermarket websites, and when i can't, there are no free ordering slots? is that why Amazon is hiring 100k people?04:03
penny_ok so u think we should reopen in no more than a few months regardless of whether there is a vaccine or cure?04:03
penny_the amazon demand is just shifted from other retailers04:03
penny_same with the super market websites04:04
LjLyes, i think we should reopen slowly and carefully and/or use an on-off method like the one proposed in the Imperial College paper to keep ICU demand under control04:04
LjLwhile also working to substantially increase ICU and oxygen availability04:04
penny_but that def means more deaths from corona04:04
LjLbecause, from the figure we have, 5% of patients are critical, and if those can be cared for, 2.5% will die. there is also another 5% of patients that don't need ICU, but who will also die without a hospital bed with oxygen. if we cannot give them that, then 10% die instead of 2.5% (these figures may be wrong depending on the actual hidden prevalence, but the proportions should stay)04:05
LjLyes, it may also mean fewer deaths from a number of other things04:05
ryoumathere is an alternate theory, rahter than locking down everybody or not, called heterogenous lockdown, put forth by acouple of academics at cmu04:05
marchelzoit's not just put forth by academics at cmu, it's put forth by anyone without brain damage04:06
ryoumait at least covers major objections, goes into its assumptions, etc.04:06
penny_"heterogeneous lockdown" on google gives me nothing04:07
marchelzoisolate the vulnerable and let the healthy go on living and working normally04:07
ryoumai think it might be this paper: http://www.math.cmu.edu/~wes/covid.html04:07
ryoumafor some definition of paper04:07
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 02:00 UTC: ljl-covid: Add Medium article that makes a simple but important point — from r/WorldNews at 02:00: Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people → https://is.gd/m3W7Fw04:08
twomoonljl do you have a backyard where you can sun yourself?04:08
ryoumathe vulnerable will need to be taken care of properly or they just starve or die from allergies to the food they are given or die from lack of medicine etc.04:08
penny_that also does mean more corona deaths04:08
ryoumabut it does look like an interesting thesis04:08
penny_https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/19/health/coronavirus-age-victims/index.html04:11
ryoumamarchelzo: yeas that is about what it is, but it goes into freat detail04:11
marchelzoyes i've read it04:11
ryoumas/freat/great/04:11
marchelzoit's common sense04:11
LjLtwomoon, i live in an apartment, i cannot possibly have a backyard...04:11
penny_>And of the 121 patients known to have been admitted to an ICU, 36% were adults ages 45 to 64, while 12% were ages 20 to 44.04:11
penny_its an interesting option but not without major costs marchelzo04:12
penny_more corona deaths04:12
ryoumaah upitt and cmu04:12
marchelzopenny_: more corona deaths compared to?04:12
penny_shutdown until vaccine or cure04:12
marchelzoalso, 20-44 makes up the vast majority of positive cases, saying 12% of ICU patients are 20-44 is extremely misleading04:13
LjLbut true?04:13
marchelzothe fatality rate for people under 40 who are not obese and do not have cardiovascular disease is virtually zero04:13
penny_with hospitalization04:14
tinwhiskers"<marchelzo> isolate the vulnerable and let the healthy go on living and working normally" - you say this is put forth by anyone without brain damage, but this is not being done anywhere.04:14
marchelzoyes it is04:14
tinwhiskerswhere?04:14
penny_what if hospital capacity is exceeded04:14
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 02:06 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: two deaths take toll to 23 as NSW police say lockdown powers to last at least 90 days – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 02:06: Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people → https://is.gd/YVYphh04:14
LjLtinwhiskers, i also wouldn't begin an argument by stating that anyone disagreeing must be brain damaged, but that might just be me04:14
marchelzoSweden, it's voluntary but that's what they're encouraging. Everything there is still open including ski resorts, restaurants, etc.04:14
tinwhiskersthe vulnerable are not more isolated than the rest of the people. Everyone is in lockdown, not based on vulnerability04:14
penny_i hadnt even heard of the term before lol04:15
ryoumaperhaps he is saying that most people are brain damaged04:15
tinwhiskersmarchelzo: so it's not policy anywher?04:16
tinwhiskersso the entire world has brain damage...04:16
tinwhiskersI actually totally agree, but it's just not being done.04:16
marchelzoWhether or not it's policy means nothing. Look at the current policy in some of the US states. Or Brazil.04:16
penny_i think hes saying a reasonable person would eventually get to that policy04:17
LjLtinwhiskers, to be fair, it *seemed* to be policy in the UK, until they confused things up a bit. i couldn't possibly rule out that certain policies are in governments' heads without them stating them because they believe stating them could be counterproductive04:17
tinwhiskersLjL: yeah04:17
LjLi bet Brazil is doing the right thing here </s>04:17
penny_hes saying that will be the policy sooner or later if leadership is smart04:18
tinwhiskersI hope so, but it ain't happening yet04:18
marchelzoOne of the really smart things that Sweden did IMO is close secondary schools / universities but keep primary schools open04:18
marchelzoAlso Singapore never closed their schools04:19
tinwhiskersI also agree with that. We are on the same page, but for your comment about brain damage.04:19
tinwhiskersClearly most of the world is not doing this04:20
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 02:13 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 930,000 as Singapore reports fourth death: Singapore has been praised for its handling of the crisis early by implementing strict quarantine measures and rigorous contact tracing efforts. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/TewjEi04:20
LjLi don't think i agree. i guess i understand the concept, but, at least in my society, i cannot quite fathom how to effectively "protect the vulnerable" while everyone else is basically going about their daily business. we're already seeing nursing homes decimated, despite bans on visiting, just because it's SO easy to get them all infected by just one worker being infected and escaping checks04:21
marchelzoI think that's just because a lot of the governments in the west panicked and didn't want to be seen as the one government who didn't take this seriously enough. I think peer pressure has a lot to do with why we're seeing such ridiculous reactions from a lot of leaders.04:21
tinwhiskersLjL: they wouldn't go about their normal business, but they would participate more than in total lockdown. i.e. the restrictions would be less, but not removed.04:22
tinwhiskersmarchelzo: yes, you may be right04:22
tinwhiskersThe practicalities of isolating everyone over, say 55 is yet to be discussed of course, but... details. :-)04:22
LjLtinwhiskers, but if there is no very, very effective isolation of vulnerable people, trying to get younger people infected sooner will just get the older people also infected at pretty much the same time. keep them at home with you? they'll get infected. keep them in nursing homes or some kind of isolation wards? they'll be all together, so first sick worker, they all get infected.04:23
tinwhiskersit needs some discussion rather than being rejected outright though.04:23
penny_tinwhiskers seems easier just to send out some cash huh04:23
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +612 cases (now 936353), +50 deaths (now 47254), +297 recoveries (now 194286) — Alabama, US: +24 cases (now 1108) — Alaska, US: +10 cases (now 143)04:23
tinwhiskersLjL: right. You need to properly isolate them, such as 3 to a room in hotels.04:23
penny_i am very spoiled tho i have a yard04:24
marchelzoIn my city, I can't go work out at my gym which is used by university students, but my mother can go into multiple nursing homes to do physiotherapy. One of her coworkers, an occupational therapist, was in contact with a known case of COVID-19 and is still going to work at several nursing homes.04:24
tinwhiskersor temporary purpose-built accommodation....details.04:24
LjLtinwhiskers, i think it's somewhat *vital* details04:24
marchelzoIs physiotherapy really *essential* when one tiny mistake could lead to 30%+ of her patients DYING?04:24
tinwhiskersthey are vital details. I agree.04:24
marchelzoClearly a lot of these policies were rushed and not thought through at all.04:25
tinwhiskersbut we have to accept that this is something that needs examining more closely if we are to come out of this with any shred of an economy left :-)04:25
LjLphysiotherapy for patients who'd have potentially fatal damage from lack of it... yeah, essential. otherwise, no. sometimes lines are hard to draw.04:25
marchelzoNobody is going to die from taking a month break from their physiotheraphy sessions04:26
LjLa month...04:26
tinwhiskersSo far this has just been rejected out of hand as too hard, but the principle makes sense. It needs robust modelling.04:26
marchelzoYou don't risk tens of lives to improve somebody's ankle mobility04:26
LjLtinwhiskers, i think the modelling may be there, i'd say what it needs is precise working out of the details. if nothing else, because it will keep being rejected as too hard if details aren't spelled out and found convincing.04:27
tinwhiskersI mean modelling including the details04:27
ryoumathere are already details in existing "solutions"04:27
ryoumai'm not sure if this one has more04:28
ryoumabut yeah modeling has to include the details04:28
ryoumathe authors ack taht04:28
penny_strikes me as an interesting middle ground04:28
ryoumain italy extended family units living together are probably common?04:28
ryoumaso it might seem more implausible there?04:29
penny_you know who was actually talking about this now that i think about it? donald trumo04:29
tinwhiskersLike, how many hotel rooms can we acquire and how much other small-group housing can we get. How many people will be required to service these old folk in a safe manner, etc.04:29
penny_trump04:29
ryoumawell lots of unemployed now, some even immune04:29
penny_trump was saying something like this, about vulnerable people being isolated but healthy people going to work but with social distancing04:29
penny_washing hands etc04:29
tinwhiskerswork those things out as feasibility first then model it. It needs people to think about ways to achieve it rather than dismiss it because it's potentially the best approach (potentially not)04:29
penny_and the press killed him for it04:29
penny_but now here's marchelzo saying ud have to be braindead not to think that's what to do04:30
tinwhiskersyeah, that's an extreme view04:30
penny_if this is what ends up happening trump is going to look very smart04:31
penny_unless it doesnt work oc04:32
tinwhiskerswell, he took it out of the UK handbook that was a confused PR disaster04:32
penny_yeah04:32
penny_so where they right all along tho?04:32
penny_were04:33
tinwhiskerswell, we don't really know without more detailed studies. I fear the concept has been tainted and nobody wants to touch it.04:33
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 02:22 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: Scott Morrison announces free childcare – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 02:22: Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people → https://is.gd/YVYphh04:33
penny_yeah the overwhelming sentiment in the press was that it was dumb04:33
tinwhiskersyeah, and not just the press. I usually get a lot of abuse when I mention it :-)04:34
penny_"ur putting dollars before lives" etc04:34
tinwhiskersright, but it can potentially have a lower death count or the same, but with less economic cost.04:34
penny_when you consider non-corona deaths caused by the shutdown04:35
penny_i get it04:35
ryoumamy impression of the uk plan was completely different.  that one was NOT isolate and protect vulnerable, but rather more like do nothing04:35
tinwhiskersI'm certainly not claiming I know if's the best approach (or that any other approach is braindead) but I think it needs a fresh look.04:35
ryoumathe initial plan04:35
tinwhiskersryouma: I think that's where the confusing PR disaster came in04:36
penny_tinwhiskers these numbers are going to be next to impossible to predict i would think04:36
tinwhiskersit's not a simple job04:36
penny_ryaneo the youngins were supposed to get herd immunity was the idea i thought04:36
marchelzoThe "ur putting dollars before lives" argument is just people taking advantage of the pandemic to make Trump look bad04:36
penny_its way more complicated than that for sure04:37
tinwhiskersno. It wasn't about Trump. It was about the UK04:37
marchelzoit was also said about Trump a lot04:37
penny_i think that argument was made against both04:37
tinwhiskersso not just to make Trump look bad then04:37
ryoumathe us had more time so it was more about the uk04:38
twomoonmarchelzo: are you in italy?04:38
penny_in the simple analysis it absolutely means more corona deaths, but its way more complicated than that04:38
marchelzothe governor of NY was like "Your mother's life is not expendable, my mother's life is not expendable. We will do everything possible to save as many lives as possible." -- which is obvious bullshit. If you told Cuomo he could re-open NYC tomorrow and it would only result in 1,000 more deaths than the best case he'd do it in a heartbeat.04:38
tinwhiskersit doesn't absolutely mean that at all04:39
marchelzotwomoon: Canada04:39
tinwhiskersoh, ah, ok04:39
penny_how can opening up even a little not lead to more corona deaths?04:39
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews Live* at 02:34 UTC: /u/slakmehl: ABC News Politics su Twitter: "When Prime Minister Boris Johnson developed a cough and fever, he got a test for the new coronavirus. Most other Britons won’t be offered one. https://t.co/P0HExofkgt" — from r/WorldNews at 02:34: Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people → https://is.gd/nb3lSy04:40
marchelzopenny_: because the disease doesn't go away until we have a vaccine or cure04:40
penny_right thats what im saying. the way to have the fewest corona deaths is to shutdown as much as possible until then04:41
tinwhiskerswhen you have the people participating only dying at a rate of ~0.1% instead of including the vulnerable people and having people die at a rate of 2% it can save lives04:41
tinwhiskersIt depends at what level you make the restrictions apply to get the balance right04:41
penny_and to be clear the balance is between what?04:41
tinwhiskersthe level of restrictions still imposed on people even in the non-vulnerable group.04:42
tinwhiskersthey can't just go about life as normal04:42
tinwhiskersbut they can participate somewhat (more than under a lockdown that applies to everyone equally)04:43
penny_so the economic and psychological costs which could lead to death?04:43
marchelzopenny_: it's both too late and too non-constitutional to contain the virus to the extent that some asian countries have; we can't halt the deaths. so consider the case where finding a vaccine/cure takes so long that we've come close to herd immunity by the time we have one. then your strategy actually leads to *more* deaths because of the homogeneity.04:43
tinwhiskersmarchelzo: right04:44
penny_the curve would be flattest that way04:44
tinwhiskersmaybe04:44
tinwhiskersbut that's not the goal04:44
penny_how could opening up not spike the curve?04:44
marchelzothe area under the curve is the same regardless of how flat it is (ignoring healthcare capacity)04:44
penny_why would u ignore that04:45
penny_but yes i do agree with that04:45
tinwhiskersYou would be aiming to shorten the time while not increasing the death count.04:45
penny_how long are we talking?04:45
marchelzobecause the people who go back to work are extremely unlikely to require ICU beds04:45
tinwhiskersright04:45
penny_extremely?04:45
marchelzoyes04:45
penny_well they do make up a significant chunk of icu patients04:45
penny_but how long would this take marchelzo?04:46
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews Live* at 02:42 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Eric Umansky su Twitter: "NYC is converting *all its public hospitals* in ICU units for COVID-19. "Patients who do not have the virus will be sent to large-scale temporary hospitals or to hotels that are being converted into temporary medical facilities." https://t.co/JtABltXVyp… https://t.co/UAoQgg4P8w" → https://is.gd/2rTrBf04:46
penny_to achieve herd immunity under lockdown04:46
tinwhiskersyeah, most will only get minor symptoms and the restrictions aim to assure those that do get serious symptoms do not overload the hospital systems04:46
marchelzosay only healthy people under 40 go back to work. we'd see a negligible amount of deaths in that group04:46
BruntLIVEHospitals have the best wipes04:46
BruntLIVEfull pull04:46
penny_but could we exceed hospital capacity that way marchelzo?04:47
BruntLIVEhotels new hospitals04:47
BruntLIVE70% set04:47
tinwhiskersthat depends how you set the restrictions, in much the same way as we're doing now, but leveraging the differential death rate of younger people.04:47
marchelzoICU numbers and hospitalization numbers are kind of shaky IMO.04:47
penny_great04:48
penny_so... basically impossible to know04:48
marchelzoThere's so much fear and panic, even (especially) among healthcare workers that a lot of people end up getting admitted to the hospital / ICU when they likely don't need it.04:48
penny_i see04:48
penny_so how do you feel about being on the same page as trump?04:49
marchelzoHow can there be so many "severe" cases and virtually no deaths in the under 40 and healthy demographic?04:49
tinwhiskersThe other option is to continue with the complete or stop-go lockdowns and pray a treatment arrives before the vaccine is ready. That might work out.04:49
penny_well cuz of hospitalization04:49
penny_yes04:50
marchelzoThe "severe" 50-65 cases are hospitalized too. And yet a much higher percentage of them end up dying.04:50
marchelzoSo clearly "severe" for 20-40 is different from "severe" for 50-6504:50
penny_the young respond to the treatment better04:51
LjL"severe" (a portion thereof) and in particular "ICU" should be taken to mean "will die without proper assistance (oxygen or IRC)". if they DO receive proper assistance, then they are unlikely to die if young, and increasingly likely if old.04:51
penny_right04:52
marchelzoThere's barely even any treatment. Oxygen? If you end up on a respirator you're probably dead anyway (one chinese study saw 80% of COVID-19 patients who required ventilation die before being discharged)04:52
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 02:50 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: Scott Morrison announces free childcare as wide-ranging industrial reforms announced – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 02:50: Calgary police charge man over threat to spread COVID-19 to Indigenous people → https://is.gd/YVYphh04:52
LjLoxygen is not the same as a ventilator.04:52
marchelzoI didn't say it was04:52
LjLyou more or less suggested it by saying "oxygen?" followed by an explanation of the supposed uselessness of ventilators04:53
tinwhiskersmarchelzo: recent figures I saw indicate 50% of people on ventilators recover04:53
BruntLIVEStabbing Of Asian American Toddler And Family Deemed A Hate Crime: Report The teenage suspect reportedly said he thought the family was Chinese and spreading the coronavirus. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/stabbing-of-asian-american-toddler-and-family-deemed-a-hate-crime-report_n_5e84b65fc5b6871702a84c0b04:53
LjLtinwhiskers, and older figures i saw, too04:53
marchelzoI meant "is there anything other than oxygen? and don't say ventilation because . . ."04:54
LjLwell, good thing i have a likely explodey oxygen machine incoming then04:54
tinwhiskersnice :-)04:54
marchelzoAlso note that a high percentage of patients who require ventilation will survive until discharge but die within a few months04:54
penny_well what treatments are the young people getting besides ventilators?04:54
tinwhiskersmarchelzo: for small values of "high percentage", maybe04:55
LjLmarchelzo, we already have data for a few months after discharge?04:55
danielp3344penny_: probably IV hydration?04:55
tinwhiskersmarchelzo: what do you consider a high percentage?04:55
marchelzoLjL: Applies to being on a ventilator for respiratory depression from any cause04:55
marchelzoNot just COVID-1904:56
penny_ur saying the hospital doesnt do the young people any good?04:56
LjLpenny_, he's saying a very specific thing04:57
penny_theyd survive without it?04:57
LjLno04:57
marchelzotinwhiskers: There was a paper that looked at data from thousands of ventilator patients and found that while 50% survived to discharge, only 30% were alive one year later.04:57
tinwhiskersno. they have a better average outcome than older people04:57
penny_ok so then some of them would die without hospitalization04:57
tinwhiskersyes04:57
penny_so hospital capacity cant be exceeded or else some of them will die04:57
tinwhiskersright04:58
LjLsome of them will die anyway, but, yeah04:58
danielp3344penny_: young as in not old?04:58
penny_i guess 40 is the number we are using?04:58
marchelzoI highly doubt hospital capacity would be exceeded. We're talking about people under 40 with no comorbidities. You wouldn't need many ventilators at all.04:58
tinwhiskerswell, I don't think 40 is a good number to use04:58
LjLme neither04:58
penny_what number do u like?04:58
danielp3344penny_: 4204:58
danielp3344obviously04:58
LjLthe number Italy is using as a dividing line is 50, but even that seems low to me if you want "most workers" to go back to doing things04:59
tinwhiskersthat would imply you're talking about extreme isolation on everyone over 40. 40 was just to demonstrate a point, but really we're talking about 50 or thereabouts04:59
marchelzo40-50 is where it goes from being almost harmless to actually having a non-negligible chance of killing you04:59
penny_:)04:59
marchelzowhy not play it safe04:59
LjLi don't call high chances of ending up in hospital "almost harmless", tbh, even if i end up alive04:59
tinwhiskersbecause it will be more likely to be impractical05:00
marchelzoor relax the constraints in waves. let <30 go back, then <40, then <50, etc.05:00
penny_if all these people go back to work a lot of them would catch it pretty quick i think05:00
tinwhiskersplus 40-50 years olds can be quite productive!05:00
tinwhiskerspenny_: it's not life as normal05:00
penny_that's true05:00
marchelzoLjL: the hospitalization numbers are silly. I watched a youtube video from a doctor treating COVID-19 patients at the biggest hospital in NYC and he said most of the young people in there literally just have a cough05:01
marchelzoPeople are just scared because of the media IMO05:01
penny_those young people are the braindead ones05:01
penny_that is so dumb05:01
tinwhiskers:-/05:01
penny_theyre likely to catch it in the hospital05:01
danielp3344penny_: hey now05:01
marchelzoMaybe, or maybe the media are the braindead ones for making a HUGE ordeal out of literally every death involving anybody even remotely young05:02
penny_stay home unless ur quite sick05:02
penny_dont go out to get tested if you just have a cough05:02
LjLmarchelzo, we have a reasonably large number of young people in hospitals, and our hospitals are WAY overwhelmed. i believe that to be the case in NYC hospitals, too, but i'm not sure. why are those patients not just being discharged if they're taking up important beds?05:03
LjLpenny_, and yet, the countries that have done widespread, or even almost blanket, testing (in smart ways) are the ones that are faring better05:04
LjLcorrelation doesn't imply causation, but still05:04
bigfluff%data oregon05:04
Brainstormbigfluff: In Oregon, US, there are 736 cases, 19 deaths (2.6% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 02:20Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.05:04
swift110oh wow05:05
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 03:02 UTC: Adding "heterogeneous transmission" paper: (although I don't really think I believe in this, as I can't see how isolation can happen) — from r/WorldNews at 03:02: Number of COVID-19 deaths confirmed by local public health units is nearly double what Ontario is reporting → https://is.gd/aA1jDY05:05
swift110%data Washington DC05:05
Brainstormswift110: Sorry, Washington DC not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name.05:05
LjL%data district of columbia05:05
BrainstormLjL: In District Of Columbia, US, there are 586 cases, 11 deaths (1.9% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 02:57Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=District%20Of%20Columbia for time series data.05:05
swift110thanks05:05
swift110wow 586 cases05:05
swift110Not that far from the total of the entire state of Oregon05:06
swift110less than 70 sq. miles05:06
LjL%wa population of oregon05:07
LjL%wa population of washington, dc05:07
BrainstormLjL, Wolfram|Alpha (Oregon | population): Result: 4.143 million people (2017) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+oregon05:07
BrainstormLjL, Wolfram|Alpha (Washington, District of Columbia, United States | city population): Result: 693972 people (country rank: 20th) (2017 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+of+washington%2C+dc05:07
swift110dc has about 600,00005:07
swift110well close to 700,00005:07
swift110I used to live there05:07
swift110%data Maryland05:08
Brainstormswift110: In Maryland, US, there are 1985 cases, 31 deaths (1.6% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 02:20Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.05:08
swift110good grief05:08
swift110scared to look at New York05:08
penny_even if hospital capacity isnt exceeded doesnt having more young people with it out and about increase the risk of the vulnerable to some extent?05:09
swift110%data New York City05:09
swift110yes penny_05:09
Brainstormswift110: Sorry, New York City not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name.05:09
penny_i suppose it depends on how good the isolation is05:09
swift110%data New York05:09
LjLcities aren't listed05:09
Brainstormswift110: In New York, US, there are 83901 cases, 2219 deaths (2.6% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 02:20Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.05:09
swift110Wow!05:09
LjLswift110, this is where i live, look at the deaths and not just the cases...05:10
LjL%data Lombardy05:10
BrainstormLjL: In Lombardia, Italy, there are 44773 cases, 7593 deaths (17.0% of cases), 11415 recoveries as of April 01, 16:00Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lombardia for time series data.05:10
penny_isnt that one of the hardest hit places?05:10
LjLyeah, so is NYC05:10
swift110yeah05:10
swift110NYC is such a hub for travel no wonder05:10
swift110%data florida05:10
Brainstormswift110: In Florida, US, there are 7773 cases, 101 deaths (1.3% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 02:20Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.05:10
penny_and ur currently shelting in place there LjL ?05:10
penny_sheltering05:10
LjLpenny_, for as long as we still get supermarket deliveries, which appears to be... no later than April 10, since the website isn't opening any new slots after that date05:11
penny_that is somewhat dire05:12
penny_im sorry to hear that05:12
ryoumawhere i live, everybody has guns.  it's a bit concerning.05:13
swift110ryouma, yeah that is scary05:13
LjLhopefully new slots will appear out of nowhere before we run out of food, and we also manage to grab some05:13
LjLotherwise, we have five ffp2 masks05:13
LjLthey were only €65!05:13
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 03:07 UTC: Tesla could help make lithium ion batteries for ventilators to help fight COVID-19, says ResMed CEO Mick Farrell: Amid a COVID-19 pandemic and ventilator shortage, Tesla purchased 1,000 "non-invasive ventilators" made by ResMed to donate to hospitals, explained CEO Mick Farrell. Typically, higher-end ventilators are [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/OBind505:14
penny_the wild fire from a couple years back isturning out to have been lucky bc i have masks leftover from that05:14
penny_lucky for me very sad for others of course05:15
ryoumawhy do you need batteries for ventilators except for backup?05:15
ryoumai mean, is that a critical part?05:15
penny_gotta be for backup05:16
swift110This stuff is no joke05:16
penny_the un chief says its the biggest crisis since ww205:16
penny_https://www.bbc.com/news/world-5211482905:17
swift110yes it is05:19
penny_and like a war, it cannot be seperated from economic factors05:19
swift110I hope we get some kind of universal income temporarily to help people stay on their feet05:19
penny_we were just talking about that :)05:19
penny_im for it too05:20
penny_most people here seems quite skeptical of it05:21
bigfluffIn the US, the general tone is "everyone will be okay, everyone will work together" but very little is being structured in terms of actual plan05:25
penny_there are no good options05:26
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 03:20 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: Scott Morrison announces free childcare as wide-ranging industrial reforms announced – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 03:20: Thousands of US sailors on coronavirus-riddled USS Theodore Roosevelt allowed to disembark in Guam → https://is.gd/YVYphh05:30
IronYljl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4no04822NQ&list=WL&index=11105:34
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 03:29 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 930,000 as Singapore reports fourth death: Singapore has been praised for its handling of the crisis early by implementing strict quarantine measures and rigorous contact tracing efforts. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/TewjEi05:37
swift110only four deaths in a population that high05:38
IronYCannot even make this shit up05:42
IronYhttps://www.ctvnews.ca/world/truck-full-of-toilet-paper-crashes-catches-fire-on-texas-highway-1.4878106?fbclid=IwAR2qSmQVIoq9N7MighckA2DDNV1BGcFRGKwRgk9sYq3QlkZEKG59T6xTT2805:42
IronY%title05:42
BrainstormIronY: From www.ctvnews.ca: Truck full of toilet paper crashes, catches fire on Texas highway | CTV News05:42
marchelzoHong Kong has diagnosed 640 people with COVID-19 since March 10 but they haven't had a single death since March 1305:45
marchelzoMakes you think05:47
IronYI have decided I am going to put some positive energy out into the world lol, there WILL BE AT LEAST some good news tomorrow *crosses fingers*05:47
IronYNothing is 100% for sure anymore, except that Carol 100% killed her first husband05:52
CoronaBot/r/worldnews: Queen of Malaysia has been cooking for hospital workers (10290 votes) | https://redd.it/ft8zyr06:01
BobCatThunderf00t's video today seemed to be some hopeful news06:03
IronYlink06:04
BobCathttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRbSdHQnVNY06:04
BobCat%title06:07
BrainstormBobCat: From www.youtube.com: Coronavirus update Apr 1: Actual signs of hope! - YouTube06:07
IronYThat u sir06:10
____GOD____A scientific paper about a "gain-of-function" bat virus modification project that involved an employee of Wuhan Institute of Virology: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4797993/  :"to examine the emergence potential (that is, the potential to infect humans) of circulating bat CoVs, we built a chimeric virus encoding a novel, zoonotic CoV spike protein—from the RsSHC014-CoV sequence that was isolated from Chinese horseshoe bats"06:19
____GOD____And another paper involving same Wuhan lab employee: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature1271106:20
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 04:05 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: Scott Morrison announces free childcare as wide-ranging industrial reforms announced – latest news [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/YVYphh06:20
____GOD____"Isolation and characterization of a bat SARS-like coronavirus that uses the ACE2 receptor"06:20
____GOD____Yes, a Wuhan lab had isolated a bat coronavirus that had ACE2 receptor capability...years ago06:21
____GOD____Same lab in Wuhan also submitted the most identical genome sequence to sars-cov-2 to the NCBI genome database06:22
____GOD____Link to that sequence: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/nuccore/MN99653206:23
____GOD____And the story in scientific American that a beijing writer wrote about that Wuhan lab employee, seemingly to try to gain prestige...while actually showing that she is EXTREMELY suspect: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/06:24
____GOD____And an opinion article: https://harvardtothebighouse.com/2020/03/23/no-monkey-ever-reheated-a-frozen-burrito-what-the-expanse-tells-us-about-the-covid-19-pandemic/06:25
____GOD____That does seem to have a lot of confirmed info06:26
ryoumai'm an atheist though.  so, you know.06:32
____GOD____Then kiss a chinese guy today06:35
____GOD____https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCOx-hewCcc&feature=youtu.be06:35
____GOD____An italian video from 2015.06:35
____GOD____Can use youtube translator for subtitles06:36
____GOD____(about chinese labs enhancing bat coronaviruses)06:36
marchelzo>Yes, a Wuhan lab had isolated a bat coronavirus that had ACE2 receptor capability...years ago06:38
marchelzolmao SARS was like 17 years ago06:38
marchelzowhy is that supposed to be shocking06:38
____GOD____Because that means no intermediate host was required06:39
____GOD____Unlike sars06:39
____GOD____Straight from bats to chinese06:39
____GOD____Or possibly through some ferrets in a lab and then to the chinese in wuhan06:40
____GOD____That could explain the slight difference in the most similar sequence published by that lab06:41
____GOD____That and the mutation caused by it jumping to another species06:41
IronY____GOD____: The people in this channel are generally intelligent enough that joining and claiming alarmist links with common knowledge information with a spin is probably not gonna get u the result u were looking for06:43
IronYmay I suggest dalnet?06:43
____GOD____I recommend NOT attempting such attempts at coercion by attempting to harness egos06:44
____GOD____Yes, go to dalnet instead of here. Thanks in advance06:44
IronYYou are not using that word properly06:45
IronY:/06:45
____GOD____If irony is too inept to understand those papers, he/she shouldn't try to drag others down06:45
____GOD____Although obviously he/she may be on a bio-research payroll06:46
IronYLol there we go06:46
____GOD____Or has other self-interested reasons for lying06:46
IronYLjL: ^06:46
____GOD____I posted links to peer reviewed papers06:47
____GOD____That is called "science"06:47
____GOD____Richard Ebright (molecular biologist) answered "YES" to this question today: Could passing the batcovratg13 through a series of hosts in a lab, such as ferrets, produce that sort of 3.x percent mutation from batcovratg13 found in sars-cov-2?06:56
____GOD____So that is SOLVED AND PROVEN06:56
marchelzoso why aren't any of the more immediate ancestors in a database?07:04
AlbrightAre we actually able to document every generation of a virus?07:05
AlbrightEspecially before we know they'd become relevant?07:05
tinwhiskersnope. all animals have a multitude of viruses. any expedition into the wild will usually result in the discovery of several new viruses07:07
marchelzoyeah but this virus seems relatively stable and 96.x% similarity is many mutations off of SARS-CoV-207:09
marchelzoand this was happening in a lab where they were allegedly studying viruses?07:09
tinwhiskersHere's a great article on one such expedition: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/07:09
penny_i was thinking marchelzo, by keeping the curve as flat as possible, we keep the rate of mutation lower07:09
IronY-from what I understand covid has a very low rate of mutation compared to past pandemics07:10
penny_i read that too. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/03/low-coronavirus-mutations-mean-hope-for-a-single-vaccine.html07:11
penny_>It is possible that a small mutation in the virus could have outsize effects in the clinical outcome of covid-19, the experts say. That has been known to happen with other viruses. But there’s no sign this is happening with the novel coronavirus.07:12
tinwhiskers____GOD____: because something is possible doesn't prove that's what happened.07:13
tinwhiskers(do I smell a troll?)07:14
IronYtinwhiskers: dammit I had cut him off of food, u just fed it, its after mightnight man lol07:14
tinwhiskersooops07:14
IronYlol07:14
penny_this scientist is saying "Yes. The observed rate of mutation (about 2 mutations per month) is completely normal for a virus. Flu and the common cold have similar mutation rates. Even a bit faster for flu."07:16
IronYwell finally a covid positive outcome07:16
IronYdue to everyone being at home, most steam VR games have been cracked07:16
penny_https://twitter.com/trvrb/status/1243914388433547264?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1243914388433547264&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.9news.com.au%2Fworld%2Fcoronavirus-research-finds-covid19-mutating-experts-warn-against-panic-about-new-strains%2Fd9dc2d05-0dd3-4b3b-9f2d-00849257e58707:16
IronYguess Ill give it a go tomorrow07:16
tinwhiskers\o/07:17
AlbrightAs a developer I politely request that you do not pirate the products of my peers. :(07:19
IronYwe killed god!07:19
tinwhiskersthe writing was on the wall for GOD anyway07:19
IronYAlbright: I am also a developer, I will pirate games as I please to try them for an hour, if there not complete and utter shit, I will buy them07:19
IronYAlbright: as a developer remind ur peers to stop releasing broken products at full price07:20
penny_its not the devs fault the products are broken07:21
IronYsure it is, we are paid money, and it is our choice if that money is worth our credibility07:21
IronYI have walked off jobs for shotty products07:22
IronYeveryone has a choice07:22
penny_i think its mostly about what the devs are being told to do by the higher ups07:22
penny_the time theyre being given, etc07:22
IronYAgain I am a Sr Software engineer and College Professor in the Computer science department07:23
penny_but you have experience in the private sector too?07:23
IronYPrivate (as employee and consultant) and even a little stint in public07:24
IronYI have been in private 90% of my career07:24
penny_so you know that decisions made by corperate people can doom a project im sure07:24
IronYyes, and I know it is the choice of the people doing the work if they want to remain there and take the money07:24
IronYif ur good at this job, its not hard to find another job07:24
penny_ok but you see what im saying that there was nothing any dev could have done about it07:25
IronYhe could of quit07:25
penny_whichever devs were on that job the product would be bad07:25
IronYso again, I am going to pirate games until I know they are good07:25
IronYand reward to companies that are good07:25
IronYthe devs get paid regardless07:25
IronYso this conversation is moot07:25
penny_im just standing up for the poor devs ok lol07:26
IronYoh yeah but like, its the poor devs that doing most of the piracy lol07:26
penny_lol07:26
IronYI am never going to pay for the Skyrim VR i just pirated07:26
IronYwanna know why07:26
penny_buggy?07:26
IronYBecause I own it on steam, i own it on ps3, i own it on ps4, and I own it on the nintendo switch07:27
IronYi bought that game 5 times07:27
IronYbethesda does not need another 69 dollars for the same content07:27
IronYthe devs that made it did not get paid 5 times07:27
IronYjust the publisher07:27
penny_yeah for real most of the money you spend on a game doesnt go to the devs just like most of the money youd spend on a cd doesnt go to the artist07:28
penny_but it does keep the industry as a whole going07:28
IronYyeah, but sometimes companies do need to fail07:28
IronYexample: Bethesda lol07:28
IronYIf everyone pirated EA games for a solid year so we can get rid of EA it would be a net gain for that industry as a whole07:29
penny_hehe07:29
IronYwould result in smaller private studios with fair wages and less grind07:29
penny_what's a fair wage?07:29
IronYpenny_: depends on the scope of work, in this situation a fair wage is normally you work a actual 40 hour work week and get a full time position07:30
IronYnot you work an 120 hour work week on a 40 hour salary at a promise of a full time position07:30
IronYwhich is how they play it a lot of the times07:30
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 05:20 UTC: Coronavirus: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak — from r/WorldNews at 05:20: 44 Texas Students Have Coronavirus After Spring Break Trip → https://is.gd/S3z1gE07:30
IronYI just wanna point out, for the first time in history, it is ok to wish death on a bunch of dumb 20 somethings that went on spring break07:31
IronYI have never heard so many people say "I hope those kids die" in my life07:31
oguzkoroglu!cases World07:35
CovBotIn World there have been a total of 936,772 cases as of 2020-04-02 04:39:00 UTC. Of these 694,932 (74.2%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 194,578 (20.8%) have definitely recovered and 47,262 (5.0%) have died.07:35
BobCatAll those #okboomer idiots must really be happy boomers invented the Internet, right?07:36
penny_ok boomer07:37
BobCatI condemn thee to 1995 AOL07:37
BobCatdial up, cowboy07:37
penny_during the golden age of usenet and irc nice07:37
BobCatVint Cerf has the covid btw07:38
____GOD____Here is a photo of zhengli shi, the employee from wuhan institute of virology: http://www.omso2o.com/ueditor/php/upload/oms1/image/20200207/1581054899740299567.png07:41
____GOD____If she doesn't believe in personal hygiene, then....07:41
cfdiskYou guys think this new pandemic is a bioweapon ?07:42
jbjllktrump cia china delvery07:44
____GOD____Sadly that woman was allowed to endanger the public07:46
cfdiskI saw yesterday on the news a Harvard Teacher was Arrested by FBI has connection with a university of wuhan where this pandemic came from.07:46
____GOD____I wouldn't let that woman near My kids at first glance07:46
cfdiskWhat woman ____GOD____ ?07:47
IronYThats the shittiest bot chain I have ever seen07:47
____GOD____http://www.omso2o.com/ueditor/php/upload/oms1/image/20200207/1581054899740299567.png07:47
cfdiskLOL07:47
IronYman this guy must be a crap programmer lol07:47
cfdiskis a BOT?07:47
cfdiskLMAO07:48
____GOD____cfdisk: lieber was supposed paid A LOT of cash by the chinese government07:48
____GOD____(that harvard prof)07:48
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 05:40 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live update: Scott Morrison announces free childcare as death toll rises to 24 – latest news — from r/WorldNews at 05:40: 44 Texas Students Have Coronavirus After Spring Break Trip → https://is.gd/YVYphh07:48
cfdiskHold on.. I thought you was a bot.07:48
IronYfree childcare at 24, free children at 24007:49
____GOD____Supposedly the chinese government paid him about 150,000 US DOLLARS per month or something07:49
cfdisk____GOD____, thats true.. he probably rich, but I don't think he will be able to use his money now.. Lol07:49
tinwhiskers____GOD____: take it to ##coronavirus-vox07:49
____GOD____Actually not sure if he was from America, or was an immigrant07:49
____GOD____What? I was simply answering a question cfdisk asked07:50
cfdiskI don't know, Not sure if he was involved with this covid1907:50
____GOD____I am not saying he was. No connection found07:51
cfdiskyep07:51
yuriwhohello GOD07:51
tinwhiskersboth of you, please take the conspiracy theories to another channel.07:51
____GOD____I am not interested in "conspiracy theories"07:51
yuriwhoyes you are07:52
penny_conspiracies happen07:52
tinwhiskersI'm not debating this. No more. Last warning.07:52
____GOD____Richard Ebright emailed Me today confirming there is no "conspiracy" about the lab necessary07:52
____GOD____Anybody here that doesn't believe a well known and reputable molecular biologist at Rutgers should NOT be an op in this chan07:53
cfdiskLOL07:53
____GOD____I think it seems obvious that freenode may need to remove some ops in these chans07:54
IronYI think it is possible your hosting provider will be removing you07:54
IronYbut we all have thoughts07:54
cfdiskShould be free talk.07:54
tinwhiskers##coronavirus-vox is a great place to discuss those sorts of things, but not here. Just go there and discuss it to your heart's content.07:55
cfdiskWhat I should discuss in here ?07:55
tinwhiskersif you want to debate this do it in PM. the channel does not need a meta-discussion on this.07:57
cfdiskWhat I should discuss in here ?07:57
tinwhiskersOverwhelmingly people here talk about evidence-based information about covid-19, not FUD and conspiracies.07:58
cfdiskK07:58
IronYThere the same ppl btw07:59
IronYor at least 'working together'07:59
tinwhiskersah. right07:59
____GOD____Wait a second..."evidence based information"...such as all the scientific papers I posted from NCBI and nature and so on?07:59
IronYMrNodeBot: quote add Mode ##covid-19 [+q ____GOD____!*@*] by tinwhiskers08:00
IronY^ This is how religion ended08:00
tinwhiskers:-/08:01
IronYI am sorry but that was the best mode line I have ever read in my over 20 year history on this protocol lol08:01
tinwhiskerslol08:01
penny_https://thebulletin.org/2020/03/experts-know-the-new-coronavirus-is-not-a-bioweapon-they-disagree-on-whether-it-could-have-leaked-from-a-research-lab/08:03
IronYpenny_: we are all aware deep down that anyting is a possibility here, It is more it is less a productive train of thought right now08:03
IronYstep 1: survive08:04
IronYs/productive/unproductive08:04
IronYif you go down that rabbit hole, walls of text without substance and just proposition will be generated, thus there is an actual channel dedicated to it where people who do want to participate in those conversations are free to do so08:05
IronYtldr, no one is saying don't talk about conspiracy theories because there conspiracy theories, more, just talk about them elsewhere08:05
penny_well this article does a pretty good job of laying out the different positions and arguments about this08:06
IronYpenny_: there are going to be videos on that topic generated daily for the rest of your life08:07
IronYwhen and if this pandemic ends, it will be all anyone talks about08:07
penny_ok well i hope someone in the channel finds the article interesting08:07
IronYit could actually very much be a tipping point of world war08:07
penny_i did08:07
IronYlol08:07
IronYI just wanna live through A before I worry about B, but thats my opinion08:07
penny_china-us relations will be different after this no doubt08:08
IronYeverycountry relations will be different after this08:08
IronYI was just reading some local news08:08
IronYabout people calling the cops on people out here08:09
IronYre: social distancing08:09
IronYCouples coming home from florida on forced isolation for 14 days getting letters in their mail telling them to get the fuck out of the neibiourhood in the hand writing of the ones they thought friends08:09
IronYPeople are basically buckling, and there only 2 weeks in08:10
penny_things are bleak08:10
xionbox[m]^^^08:20
AlbrightIronY: Are you saying that neighbors of people in forced isolation are writing hate mail to them?08:25
IronYAlbright: It is basically world war 2 level germany sentiment, yes08:25
yuriwhoyou should see the death threats I get by PM in IRC ;-)08:25
AlbrightMan, screw that. It's not like these people have a choice.08:26
AlbrightSome people really are susceptible to government accusation. Damn.08:26
IronYAlbright: the government admits its part of the problem08:26
IronYwith its constantly changing and often conflicting information08:26
BobCatwear a face mask for gods sake08:28
BobCathow goddamn many people have who and cdc murdered so far...08:29
IronYBobCat: It would not be considered murder08:30
IronY"Criminally Negligent Homicide"08:31
BobCat2nd manslaughter?08:31
tinwhiskersyeah, I think "murder" is getting a bit sensationalist but they have not done a good job, for sure.08:31
BobCattinwhiskers does you nick refer to ROHS solder?08:31
IronYI can kind of understand governments not doing a good job08:31
AlbrightDefund WHO until they fire Teddy-bear.08:31
tinwhiskersBobCat: partly, yeah08:31
IronYI mean, governments at most levels were not really planning for something like this08:32
IronYthe WHO how ever08:32
IronYIt is one of their primary charters08:32
BobCatI am hoarding n95 and leaded solder08:32
tinwhiskers:-)08:32
IronYBobCat: I never thought to inventory my solder08:32
IronYBobCat: Ill trade you some 99.99 Isprop for some n9508:32
IronYlol08:32
BobCatI have leadfree for plumbing only08:32
tinwhiskersI always used lead and it never08:33
AlbrightI'll trade you six rolls of TP for one.08:33
tinwhiskersOh, hi BobCat. Do I knwo you?08:33
IronYAlbright: throw in a few surgical masks and Ill raise you an additional box of kleenex08:33
AlbrightNo, I'm trying to get the masks. I'm good on paper products.08:33
IronYI have accepted n95 masks are basically like unicorns at this point08:34
tinwhiskersThere are no masks to buy in my country. A few chinese shop workers have some08:34
tinwhiskersI have a fabric mask, which is better than nothing for protecting other people.08:34
BobCatI'm the BobCat from https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/picking-the-bridge08:34
IronYI have a n95 mask08:34
IronYi used it a few times spray painting08:35
IronYI have no idea how long these things degrade08:35
IronYso I am not 100% trusting it08:35
IronYI am using it once every 2 weeks08:35
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +662 cases (now 937314), +15 deaths (now 47273), +21 recoveries (now 194599) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) — Australia: +18 cases (now 5124), +1 deaths (now 24)08:35
tinwhiskersooh, nice BobCat08:35
tinwhiskersI did a correspondence locksmith course and got some lock picks, but frankly never got particularly good at it.08:36
BobCatMy friend started the lockpicking craze at Defcon, and the .eu peeople who had been doing it for a few years joined in at defcon and HOPE08:38
tinwhiskersIronY: are you treating it any way after use or just using time as your agent?08:39
BobCatoh there's a video on disinfecting let me find it08:39
IronYtinwhiskers: I am using time as the agent but at the same time as the agent, it was actually 3 weeks between the last two uses08:39
twomoonhi IronY08:39
IronYbonjour08:40
IronYtinwhiskers: that being said, I have not put myself in any overly exposed positions with it08:40
tinwhiskersgood plan08:40
IronYthe one time I had to go into a gas station I just used a cotton bandana at a double layer08:40
BobCatok watch this guy's last few videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLWBG_fbJR008:40
IronYnot 100%08:40
IronYbut at least I knew it was clean and washable08:40
BobCatHe's a supre genius who explins every tiny detail08:41
tinwhiskersWe come out of lockdown on Sunday and I have to go see the doctor then, but I'm not going anywhere near the shops with throngs of people about.08:41
SycophantFetish[I believe heat at 160F or time is a best bet.  Otherwise, I would never re-use one :(08:41
IronYtinwhiskers: Oh so far it has been a good experience08:41
IronYthe one time i went to the gas station was 3 am08:41
IronYso it was me, and the guy working at the gas station behind a plastic shield08:41
twomoonhow's your sickness doing tinwhiskers08:41
BobCatthe crappt rubber bands 3m puts on their masks bfreks after a day08:41
IronYthe second time it was to pickup groceries I preorderd08:41
tinwhiskerstwomoon: much the same still08:42
twomoonwow that's a long time08:42
tinwhiskersyeah. This doctor thinks I merely have gastritis and reflux has gone into my lungs at night and burned them.08:42
SycophantFetish[Yep, that's what concerns me about the heat with the 3M masks08:43
tinwhiskersI'm not sure if I'm sceptical or not but I'm giving the idea a fair go.08:43
twomoonwhat a bizarre diagnosis08:43
tinwhiskersI'm hoping he's right really :-)08:44
twomoondo you feel like it's mild bronchitis?08:45
BobCattinwhiskers I keep water with bicarb next to the bed, instant relief. none of the pepcid or antacid do shit for me08:45
tinwhiskersThat's what it feels like but he can't find anything to back that up08:46
twomoonmy mom had bronchitis that just wouldn't go away08:46
BobCatnothing worse than waking up with a trachea full of acid08:46
twomoonshe had to take budesonide and albuterol for 3 weeks before seeing any effect08:46
tinwhiskersIf it doesn't come right I have to go to  the hospital for an x-ray. Dum dum de dum dumm duuuuuum. People die there.08:46
tinwhiskerswe don't have anything more advance than x-ray here08:47
tinwhiskers*advanced08:47
twomoondamn08:47
IronYtinwhiskers: I was reading a paper about the thought their is a second, less sever gastrointestinal variant going around08:47
IronYI cannot find the source though, but had anyone else encountered it?08:48
IronYs/their/there08:48
tinwhiskersBlood tests too... last time I went to the hospital for a blood test they took a needle out of ethanol, not a sealed packet. I can't be sure, but I think they are saving money.08:48
twomoondear god08:48
BobCatthe guy advising Merkel said that IronY08:48
BobCathe does a pdocast daily now in german, i heard about it on the bbc last night08:49
IronYWith all the typos in that sentence I managed to get gastrointestinal right08:49
IronYthat is impressive08:49
BobCatif you get the virus in your gi tract you have time to make antibodies, if it goes in your lungs, nope08:49
IronYthat would explain why there are weird claims of smoking being a detterent08:50
tinwhiskersthat's contradictory to the mortality outcomes though08:50
BobCatsmoking has to make it worse... hand to mouth constaly, etc08:50
IronYBobCat: Oh I have not had a smoke outside my home since the end of feb08:50
IronYthats just crazy talk08:51
tinwhiskersit's a weird one, but may have some truth... smokers paradox kinda thing maybe08:51
CoronaBot/r/worldnews: Shenzhen becomes first city in China to ban consumption of cats and dogs (10360 votes) | https://redd.it/ftflyf08:51
IronYtinwhiskers: well my logic here is08:51
IronYMy lungs are coated with slimey goo08:51
IronYdroplet gets caught on said goo08:51
IronYI smoker caugh up said goo08:51
IronYI swallow said goo08:51
tinwhiskersheh. yeah08:51
IronYIf on the 0.1% chance that ends up being a thing08:51
IronYplease make sure I get credit08:52
BobCatmaybe my acid reflux will destroy the pathogen08:52
tinwhiskersso, yeah, it may have some sort of prophylactic effect but if you do get the virus it turns out worse for you.08:52
IronYtinwhiskers: technically in the order of things08:52
IronYNon smokers -> Current smokers -08:52
IronY> former smokers08:52
IronYaccording to some chian numbers that is08:52
tinwhiskersah08:52
IronYFormer smokers have it worse than current smokers due to the lungs having extra ACE208:53
tinwhiskerso.O08:53
IronYhealed lung tissue = high in ace208:53
BobCatI take an ACE2 blocker though08:53
tinwhiskers"08:53
IronYBobCat: I would still rather be an ex smoker at this point, these are just numbers that comfort me08:54
tinwhiskersfair08:54
BobCatI quit smoking with vaping then snus08:54
IronYI have a vape, it makes me caugh08:54
IronYcaughing makes me think i am dying08:54
IronYthinking I am dying makes me smoke more08:54
BobCatyou need a gentler vpe08:54
tinwhiskersI quit when my lungs burned like hell if I smoked08:54
BobCatjuul is a good choice but expensive08:55
SycophantFetish[BobCat - did the same thing here quit smoking via vape and then just threw it off a cliff one drunk night.  Never went back.08:56
tinwhiskersBobCat: from what I've heard having bicarb (or antacids, which are bicarb) gives you too much sodium, which can make your reflux worse in the long run.08:57
BobCati heard pepcid etc make it worse. bicarb is instant relief, i take the ace2 blocker for BP and HCTZ for the sodium08:58
tinwhiskersyeah, it does give instant relief08:59
twomoondoes potassium help?08:59
BobCat110/70 instead of 180/130 now08:59
BobCatthe hctz manages the potassium levels, you're not supposed to use opotassium salt with the *sartans09:00
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 06:42 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: US deaths surpass 5,000 as global infections top 930,000: The U.S. has the most number of reported cases globally at over 216,000, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/TewjEi09:00
SycophantFetish[BobCat: thanks for that vid and it's excellent info09:07
IronY%title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FadfT_UCzKY09:12
BrainstormIronY: From www.youtube.com: Coronavirus Hits PC Hardware Manufacturing Hard: Z490, AM4, & Computex - YouTube09:12
IronYGamers Nexus, lol they refer to it has 'The Human Malware Virus"09:13
BobCatSycophantFetish[ yw09:15
generaSycophantFetish[, which video if i may ask09:16
BobCat"tech Ingredients" youtube channel09:16
BobCathttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLWBG_fbJR009:17
BobCathe did a series09:17
generatnx09:18
BobCathe's done damned video about near everything09:18
BobCatmaking whiskey, solar air conditiong, thermal paste better than arctic silver...09:18
BobCat$20 hifi speakers...09:19
SycophantFetish[Anyone making good spirits is an instant sub for me ;)09:19
SycophantFetish[Never heard of him but love his style and approach09:20
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +418 cases (now 937732), +7 deaths (now 47280), +544 recoveries (now 195143) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) — Armenia: +92 cases (now 663), +2 recoveries (now 33)09:21
IronYits going down09:29
IronYI'm yelling timber09:29
IronYThey gotta move09:29
IronYKilled09:29
mefistofelesmatrix :/09:30
IronYnever seen killed before09:30
BobCat30 years on irc and what is this...09:31
IronYI promised not to express my opinions on this topic ;)09:32
mefistofeleshaha09:33
mefistofelesit is what it is, we have more matrix users than others, fwiw09:34
mefistofelesthough I think they are less active09:34
Urchinthey got rid of everyone with [m] in the name?09:34
mefistofelesUrchin: it's probably matrix dowing some maintenance, or just crashing09:35
mefistofeleshere they come09:35
irony[m]No I just wanted to see what the heck this was09:35
irony[m]lol guys09:35
mefistofelesoh, but, actually... the quit msg said "killed"09:35
irony[m]Why are you using it!09:35
mefistofelesmaybe just killed idlers?09:35
IronYpossible09:35
IronYirc in discord feels dirty09:35
mefistofeleshmm but it cant be all of them :/ no idea09:36
irony[m]I was able to join09:36
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 07:28 UTC: Eurozone: Markets brace for surge in US jobless claims as Covid-19 hits economy - business live — from r/WorldNews at 07:28: EU, US thank Taiwan for donations of surgical masks: Taiwan pledged to provide 10 million masks to countries heavily impacted by coronavirus → https://is.gd/NWALGu09:36
IronYYeah I do not like how killing the client does not kill the entity09:37
IronYthats probably exactly what happened09:37
IronYkilled super long idle connections09:37
tinwhiskersOh. this channel is nowhere near as popular as I thought!09:39
IronYMy Mr robot inspired channel had > 100 active participants a day for the entire first two seasons09:39
IronYbut to be fair, Mr Robot dropped a bunch of IRC screen shots flooding people with nostalgia09:40
tinwhiskersheh09:40
IronYI even got a shout on on that vox aftershow09:40
IronY"Shouts out to IronY"09:40
IronYlol09:40
IronYJust waiting to read some news article that reads09:41
IronY"According to the scholars of a long forgotten medium called IRC, a epic mile stone has been reached on our fight against Covid1909:41
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +811 cases (now 938543), +6 deaths (now 47286), +45 recoveries (now 195188) — Russia: +771 cases (now 3548), +6 deaths (now 30), +45 recoveries (now 235) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239)09:51
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 07:44 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Asian countries face possible second wave of coronavirus infections — from r/WorldNews at 07:44: While India is on quarantine, thousands of undisturbed sea turtles estimate 60 million eggs. → https://is.gd/2xzOUN09:54
IronYlol10:05
MillerBosshttps://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/10:06
IronY%data10:06
MillerBossPretty neat site the way the data is laid out10:06
BrainstormIronY: In all areas, World, there are 938578 cases, 47292 deaths (5.0% of cases), 195359 recoveries as of April 02, 08:02Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 19.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries).10:06
MillerBossWhats this bot now?10:06
IronYNot my room, there is a few10:07
IronY%cases canada10:07
BrainstormIronY: In all areas, Canada, there are 9731 cases, 129 deaths (1.3% of cases), 1736 recoveries as of April 02, 08:02Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.4% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 6.9% (considering only deaths and recoveries).10:07
MillerBossAhh gotchya eh10:07
IronYhe is just collecting links10:07
X-Scalehttps://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/europe/iceland-testing-coronavirus-intl/index.html10:10
X-Scale*** Iceland lab testing suggests 50% of coronavirus cases are asymptomatic - CNN10:10
PlanckWalk*were asymptomatic at the time of testing10:11
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 07:57 UTC: Eurozone: Markets brace for surge in US jobless claims as Covid-19 hits economy - business live — from r/WorldNews at 07:57: Daily increase in France from Covid 19 deaths slows from 17% to 9% → https://is.gd/NWALGu10:12
IronY^ yeay10:13
PlanckWalkThat's consistent with Diamond Princess results, where about that were asymptomatic on first testing.  ~20% remained asymptomatic.10:13
PlanckWalk~20% of all positives, not 20% of initially asymptomatic10:13
IronYhappen to know how many of those 20% had a O blood type10:13
PlanckWalkI'm pretty sure they weren't tested for that10:15
IronYoh I am sure they were tested for everything10:15
IronYthey are literally the control set10:15
mefistofelesheh10:25
MrtnDk[m]<IronY "happen to know how many of those"> 0+ or 0-? Big difference ...10:29
MrtnDk[m]%cases Vatican10:30
BrainstormMrtnDk[m]: In all areas, Vatican City, there are 6 cases, 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 08:15Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Vatican%20City for time series data.10:30
CoronaBot/r/worldnews: Taiwan premier says COVID-19 should be called 'Wuhan pneumonia' (10003 votes) | https://redd.it/ft4pqj10:45
SycophantFetish[Oof10:47
SycophantFetish[https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/01/us/coronavirus-texas-austin-spring-break-cabo.html10:47
mefistofeles%title10:47
SycophantFetish[What did they expect would happen?10:47
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 08:23 UTC: /u/The_Fadge: Filippine — from r/WorldNews at 08:23: Cuba outraged as delivery of Covid-19 aid from Alibaba chief aborted ‘at the last minute’ due to US sanctions → https://is.gd/gHLr5Y10:49
Brainstormmefistofeles: From www.nytimes.com: 44 Texas Students Have Coronavirus After Spring Break Trip - The New York Times10:49
mefistofelesheh, indeed10:50
SycophantFetish[Perhaps, they considered they'd need to start paying up in 9 months but instead...payment is due sooner.10:50
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +624 cases (now 939167), +30 deaths (now 47316), +209 recoveries (now 195397) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) — Armenia: +92 cases (now 663), +2 recoveries (now 33)10:51
blackntanwhat params do you pass offloop.net/covid19 in order to not include live data and turn on log scale?11:02
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 08:40 UTC: Eurozone: Markets brace for surge in US jobless claims as Covid-19 hits economy - business live — from r/WorldNews at 08:40: Cuba outraged as delivery of Covid-19 aid from Alibaba chief aborted ‘at the last minute’ due to US sanctions → https://is.gd/NWALGu11:04
Albright%title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0-2XxgHIXk11:19
BrainstormAlbright: From www.youtube.com: A COVID-19 Admonition ***EXPLICIT - YouTube11:19
AlbrightSome lovely background music11:19
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +2057 cases (now 941224), +213 deaths (now 47529), +817 recoveries (now 196214) — Belgium: +1384 cases (now 15348), +183 deaths (now 1011), +363 recoveries (now 2495) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239)11:21
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 09:06 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Corea del Nord — from r/WorldNews at 09:06: Cuba outraged as delivery of Covid-19 aid from Alibaba chief aborted ‘at the last minute’ due to US sanctions → https://is.gd/4ZcSR311:22
Biep[m]<ThomCat[m] "Motherf- are we **really** going"> I don't want to dwell on the image of a *fucking pandemic* (having a coughing one is bad enough), but in that context mere *dick measuring* would be a step back to normal..11:26
joerogan_%data united states11:31
Brainstormjoerogan_: In all areas, US, there are 215344 cases, 5112 deaths (2.4% of cases), 8878 recoveries as of April 02, 09:16Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.11:32
joerogan_seems like everyone is getting this11:32
adventurerhttps://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-needs-2000-extra-ventilators-to-cope-with-catastrophic-outbreak-20200313-p549u7.html11:34
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 09:18 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Hancock to unveil five-point plan to ramp up testing — from r/WorldNews at 09:18: Cuba outraged as delivery of Covid-19 aid from Alibaba chief aborted ‘at the last minute’ due to US sanctions → https://is.gd/iSDEQ511:39
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +6251 cases (now 947475), +619 deaths (now 48148), +4103 recoveries (now 200317) — Spain: +6120 cases (now 110238), +616 deaths (now 10003), +4096 recoveries (now 26743) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239)11:51
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +2877 cases (now 950352), +124 deaths (now 48272) — Iran: +2875 cases (now 50468), +124 deaths (now 3160) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239)12:06
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 10:04 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Spain death toll passes 10,000 with record single-day rise of 950 — from r/WorldNews at 10:04: While India is on quarantine, thousands of undisturbed sea turtles estimate 60 million eggs → https://is.gd/P1HXKA12:13
kreyrenAnyone familiar with poland law here? My friend has mild symptoms simmilar to covid-19 (but not necessary covid-19 assuming that it can also be a common flu) where she does not have a health insurance nor a doctor and based on available info poland has "Narodowy Fundasz Zdrawia" which based on wiki is `Health care in Poland is free and is delivered through a publicly funded health care system called the Narodowy Fundusz Zdrowia, which is free for12:13
kreyrenall the citizens of Poland provided they fall into the "insured" category` where unemployed citizens does not fall in insured category ?12:13
mefistofeleskreyren: hmm no idea, cant you just call some number and ask?12:15
mefistofelesmost countries have numbers special for covid related cases, so that may be an option12:16
kreyrenmefistofeles, none that i can find for poland12:16
kreyrenfound https://www.gov.pl/web/koronawirus12:16
kreyrenmefistofeles, told her to call it, thanks12:18
mefistofeleskreyren: no problem, I didn't do anything tbh xD haha12:20
kreyrenmefistofeles, she is concerned about the environment that they conduct the covid-19 tests if she reported it assuming that other friend who is a nurse advised agains it due to the method that poland is using to conduct these tests12:21
kreyrenany way for us to verify this?12:21
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +680 cases (now 951032), +17 deaths (now 48289), +2310 recoveries (now 202627) — Switzerland: +336 cases (now 18117), +17 deaths (now 505), +1046 recoveries (now 4013) — Iran: +1238 recoveries (now 16711)12:21
mefistofeleskreyren: they should be testing the same way other countries are, which is a qRT-PCR, not sure what concerns does she have about that exactly12:22
mefistofelesanyways, if she has mild symptoms she would probably not be tested and told to stay at home12:22
kreyrenmefistofeles, meaning that they are apparently conducting these tests in-doors in crounded-ish area12:22
mefistofeleskreyren: yes, probably, that's why she won'tprobably be tested12:23
kreyrenso she is concerned that if this is a common flu that she could get the covid-19 from going through this procedure12:23
mefistofeless/won'tprobably/probably won't12:23
kreyrenso instruct her to stay at home and call the government if she gets worse assuming that she is 22 ?12:23
mefistofeleslreyes, that should work, I mean, she doesn't need medical assistance, does she?12:26
mefistofeleskreyren: ↑12:26
kreyrenmefistofeles, She does not based on informations provided12:27
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 10:21 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Hancock to unveil five-point plan to ramp up testing — from r/WorldNews at 10:21: While India is on quarantine, thousands of undisturbed sea turtles estimate 60 million eggs → https://is.gd/iSDEQ512:30
mefistofeleskreyren: ok, she should stay at home and assume she has the virus, so strict quarantine12:31
mefistofelesbut she can still call, they should give here better advice there12:32
kreyrenmefistofeles, i've instructed her based on the instructions from czech government i.e strict quarantine in separate room, desinfect metal and plastic surfices and wear protection gear12:33
mefistofeleskreyren: sounds good12:37
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 10:40 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Spain death toll passes 10,000 with record single-day rise of 950: Iran passes 50,000 cases and 3,136 deaths; Russia and Afghanistan record single-day records; Cambodian government accused of using pandemic to assert absolute power [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/P1HXKA12:48
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 10:54 UTC: Eurozone: UK firms cut staff levels amid covid-19 crisis as cough medicine prices spike - business live [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NWALGu13:06
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 11:26 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Foto — from r/WorldNews at 11:26: WHO ‘parroted Chinese propaganda’ about coronavirus → https://is.gd/fKL34Z13:41
underscore%data gr13:49
Brainstormunderscore: In all areas, Greece, there are 1415 cases, 51 deaths (3.6% of cases), 52 recoveries as of April 02, 11:34Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Greece for time series data.13:49
underscore%data us13:50
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +1476 cases (now 952508), +44 deaths (now 48333), +259 recoveries (now 202886) — Germany: +1002 cases (now 78983), +17 deaths (now 948) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239)13:50
Brainstormunderscore: In all areas, US, there are 215357 cases, 5113 deaths (2.4% of cases), 8878 recoveries as of April 02, 11:47Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.13:50
jacklsw%data malaysia13:51
Brainstormjacklsw: In all areas, Malaysia, there are 3116 cases, 50 deaths (1.6% of cases), 767 recoveries as of April 02, 11:47Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Malaysia for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.5% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 6.1% (considering only deaths and recoveries).13:51
underscoreThe graphs on offloop.net are nice. Well done!13:52
Strantrickt[m]%data Turkey13:58
BrainstormStrantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 15679 cases, 277 deaths (1.8% of cases), 333 recoveries as of April 02, 11:47Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data.13:58
underscoreHmm, I just noticed that it's stated to try using the bot(s) in private messages on the channel topic. Apologies.13:59
BrainstormNew from WHO at 11:43 UTC: WHO/Europe works with European Commission to fight COVID-19 in countries across eastern Europe and the Caucasus: WHO/Europe is working with countries in the European Region, to ensure they have the necessary medical supplies and that the health workforce is trained to respond to COVID-19. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GGiAyt13:59
Strantrickt[m]Use Signal14:00
mefistofelesunderscore: I mean, it's just so that we don't get flooded by bot messages here14:01
underscoreYes, mefistofeles.14:01
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +2412 cases (now 954920), +233 deaths (now 48566), +27 recoveries (now 202913) — Sweden: +519 cases (now 5466), +43 deaths (now 282) — Portugal: +783 cases (now 9034), +22 deaths (now 209), +25 recoveries (now 68)14:07
underscoremefistofeles: the channel grew a lot since the last time I was here. The op(s) and contributors did a great job14:07
Scarecr0wNow that you mentioned it, just realized we have 100-200+ users than couple days ago. That's awesome.14:09
BrainstormNew from Scientific American at 12:00 UTC: Map Reveals Hidden U.S. Hotspots of Coronavirus Infection: By adjusting for population, researchers have identified rural areas in several states that could be disproportionally affected by COVID-19 -- Read more on ScientificAmerican.com — from r/WorldNews at 12:00: WHO ‘parroted Chinese propaganda’ about coronavirus → https://is.gd/Z0j6FP14:16
rajrajrajWhat could be the source of patients'location on Activate location and check how far you are from a confirmed Covid19 case14:20
rajrajrajcoronatracker.in14:20
rajrajrajWhat could be the source of patients'location on coronatracker.in14:21
hirogenhi14:22
hirogenmy gf just got fired form her job worked for a fashion company14:22
hirogenonline website14:22
AlbrightRe rural hot spots, here in Idaho, the worst-hit county is in the middle of the state with a whopping 22,000 or so people. The more urban (by Idaho standards) areas of Boise, Twin Falls, etc. haven't been hit nearly as hard even in terms of raw numbers.14:22
hirogenand they're quite a big chain here in uk14:22
hirogenis there any name and shame sites to ruin their rep14:22
hirogenthe govt here is offering to pay fultime employees 80% of a persons salary14:23
hirogenso they could have kept her on for that ffs14:23
Albrighthirogen: What relation does that have with the disease?14:23
hirogenoh ok14:23
hirogenfair enough14:23
AlbrightDid they have to cut back workers because of economic troubles?14:23
pwr22I think the government has passed laws that should protect your gf from that technically?14:24
hirogenanyone think this guys a twat ? https://www.facebook.com/Godfathercreed/videos/10221775969896843/14:24
AlbrightI personally haven't had client work for three weeks and even got laid off from my side gig at a restaurant. I'm pretty effed in the ey financially.14:24
AlbrightBut I can't blame my clients or the restaurant.14:24
Albright(btw, if anyone needs some web dev work done, hmu. I'll cut you a huge deal if you can pay at least partially in advance.)14:25
pwr22hirogen: I would think the route forward is to call an employment tribunal?14:25
pwr22Though worth contacting her work and trying to negotiate getting furloughed by them first14:25
joe[m]6A friend had the same issue Hirogen, she got in touch with local MP who got in touch with the company. Eventually they redacted the redundancy & furloughed her. Might be worth trying contacting local MPs & ACAS14:25
rajrajrajDid anyone see it14:26
rajrajrajIs it possible to find out the source of patien's location on this site coronatracker.in14:26
Albrightrajrajraj: You want to find the location of an individual patient? I would hope that wouldn't be possible.14:26
pwr22<Albright "(btw, if anyone needs some web d"> If you're truly bored and want to do some open source stuff I'd welcome a basic webpage for Cov Bot 😛14:27
pwr22IIRC I registered a domain for it some time ago14:27
mefistofelesunderscore: yes, I think most users come from matrix, but even so14:28
pwr22I don't have much experience with web stuff or free time atm14:28
rajrajrajAlbright: the site found out14:29
mefistofelessome countries could really benefit from a web app/site that helps triage phase in hospitals, fwiw14:29
Albrightpwr22: Well, if I can't get paid, I'll have to stick to doing my schoolwork, I'm afraid.14:29
AlbrightNo idea how I'll be able to pay for the next semester at this rate…14:30
underscorerajrajraj: look at the bottom of the website14:30
underscorerajrajraj: there's a spreadsheet and it mentions the source for cases14:30
kreyrenapparently new symptoms of covid-19 are halucinations and abnormal hearth rate?14:31
kreyrenaldo the halucination is probably caused by fever14:31
kreyrenso is the abnormal hearh rate?14:31
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 12:24 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Spain death toll passes 10,000 with record single-day rise of 950: Iran passes 50,000 cases and 3,136 deaths; Russia and Afghanistan record single-day records; Cambodian government accused of using pandemic to assert absolute power [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/P1HXKA14:32
pwr22<kreyren "apparently new symptoms of covid"> Statistically speaking pretty much every disease causes pretty much every symptom in a minority of cases. I wonder how prevalent that is14:34
kreyrenpwr22, may not be a minority assuming it being a virus which family is known to mutate14:35
pwr22Do we have any reliable data on it to look at?14:35
dTalI know someone who's tested positive whose only symptoms are mild fever and roaring headache14:36
dTal(and loss of taste/smell)14:36
kreyrenpwr22, none that i can find.. most of those are from new york times where someone in US government shared seemingly crafted story which seems to base the report on14:36
kreyrendTal, roaring headage ? that's new to me14:37
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +810 cases (now 955730), +16 deaths (now 48582), +29 recoveries (now 202942) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239) — Albania: +18 cases (now 277), +1 deaths (now 16)14:37
pwr22Hmm, imo let's wait for more data before taking it too seriously14:37
pwr22<dTal "I know someone who's tested posi"> One of my friends also had a terrible headache14:37
pwr22I pretty much always have a headache going on so not sure if I'd notice a difference14:37
ubLIXkreyren: is this so shocking? fever can cause delirium (hence hallucinations); heart rate increases to generate fever; hypoxia (low oxygen) can also cause delirium14:38
kreyrengenerally i like to make theories that assuming being backed up by science provides the answer generally sooner with high accuracy, but for this case assuming that this seems to be common symptoms for ill humanoids it's better to pass and wait14:39
kreyrenubLIX, it's shocking to me since none from the circles that i know reported these symptoms in czech republic14:39
kreyrenubLIX, the provided informations are inconclusive on hypoxia being the cause but i would also assume it being the cause of these symptoms14:40
mefistofelesoh ffs, swapping like hell, almost lose my whole work xD14:40
pwr22Oh no14:40
ubLIXdelirium and hallucinations are not likely to be prodromal symptoms. probably why you don't hear them circulated14:41
darsiehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgical_mask14:41
pwr22mefistofeles: if an upgrade isn't possible: https://shortestpath.dev/need-more-ram-try-compressing-what-youve-already-got.html14:41
pwr22And if you run Linux 😁14:41
pwr22<ubLIX "delirium and hallucinations are "> What's prodromal?14:41
ubLIXan early sign14:41
rajrajrajunderscore: i was looking at it. I cant see the source14:42
underscorepwr22: nice article14:42
underscorerajrajraj: I'll message you the link14:42
pwr22Thanks14:42
mefistofelespwr22: ok, I may try that, but tbh, I'm just abusing this poor laptop14:42
kreyrenDo we have any relevant info to the number of cases who lost sense of smell and taste with covid-19 ? my friend is suspected to have covid-19 but loss of smell and taste does not fit the profile14:43
pwr22What model / spec is it?14:43
pwr22I find sadly 8GB isn't enough RAM for what I need to do these days now14:43
dTalkreyren: 30% iirc?14:43
pwr22I'm thinking of buying a new one with 32GB14:44
underscorerajrajraj: sorry I can't find anything about GPS14:45
kreyrendTal, heard so too, but some research would be helpful assuming that there doesn't seem to be any paper for it14:45
rajrajrajunderscore: exactly so how is he calculating the distance14:45
underscorerajrajraj: maybe it's some speculative math model?14:47
joexotic[m]<kreyren "Do we have any relevant info to "> I had something lke this for a few days and nautious  with cold sweats after eating fast food a few weeks back and some others i know have lost sense of taste/appetite for a few days but didnt know why14:47
underscorerajrajraj: email them to ask them about it14:48
rajrajrajunderscore: it has to be somewhere in spreadsheet14:49
kreyrenjoexotic[m], did you have any other symptoms or was this relevant to covid-19 in any way?14:51
rajrajrajunderscore: i think i got it. They have published travel history of some patients14:52
joexotic[m]Nothing respiratory and didn't last very long.14:52
underscoreOk, rajrajraj14:52
kreyrenjoexotic[m], thanks for sharing14:54
ubLIXkreyren: i would guess that unaccountable delirium absent fever (in an otherwise healthy patient) would be very concerning, but am having a hard time believing that covid-19 could progress to hypoxia induced delirium without first presenting other more obvious signs14:55
amxc%data oregon14:55
Brainstormamxc: In Oregon, US, there are 736 cases, 19 deaths (2.6% of cases), 0 recoveries as of April 02, 02:20Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.14:55
kreyrenubLIX, agree14:55
python476o/14:56
kreyrenubLIX, i assume that when the fever gets so high that the patient has hypoxia induced delirum it would be a good idea to cool them down?14:57
ubLIXkreyren: i suspect you would have called an ambulance before then14:58
pwr22I think cooling someone down who has a very high fever is always a good idea14:58
pwr22Not sure what "too high" is though14:58
kreyrenbut at that point i assume that immune system is on full panic and does not know what to do to cause this state assuming that human body naturally raises a temperature to process more energy and to provide worse environment for the bacteria and the infection?14:59
kreyrenubLIX, i meant how would that be solve in the ambulance itself14:59
rajrajrajunderscore: also found out its very inaccurate15:03
ubLIXkreyren: telephone a doctor/health service if in doubt15:03
synaps3^15:04
kreyrenubLIX, true or ##medicine15:04
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 12:59 UTC: UK coronavirus live: Hancock to unveil five-point plan to ramp up testing: All the latest news on the UK’s Covid-19 crisis, as Eddie Large’s son says comedian has died after contracting coronavirus and British Airways expected to suspend 36,000 staff [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/iSDEQ515:06
rajrajrajHowever every confirmed case should share their live location mandatory15:06
ubLIXwouldn't waste time with irc if you found yourself worrying that time was a factor15:07
underscorerajrajraj: there's a science field about it, it's network science and a lot of countries try to do contact tracing. With limited surveillance, it has limited success15:11
underscoreAFAIK here the contact tracing is being done by the police15:12
ubLIXkreyren: "when the fever gets so high that the patient has hypoxia induced" <-- note that in these two things are not related in the way you imply here15:13
ubLIXs/that in these/that these/15:14
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +4562 cases (now 960292), +584 deaths (now 49166), +71 recoveries (now 203013) — United Kingdom: +4244 cases (now 33718), +569 deaths (now 2921) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239)15:22
kreyrenubLIX, Time is not a factor and i find irc being a better source to provide more points of view on the question15:23
kreyrenubLIX, true sorry typo15:23
kreyrenmeant "patient has fever induced delirium"15:24
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 13:14 UTC: UK coronavirus live: death toll rises by 569 to 2,921: Boris Johnson still symptomatic; Matt Hancock to address testing; Eddie Large’s son says comedian has died after contracting coronavirus — from r/WorldNews at 13:14: Nepal, Czech Republic and Philippines also find Covid-19 test kits from China faulty → https://is.gd/iSDEQ515:24
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews Live* at 13:26 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Where America Didn’t Stay Home Even as the Virus Spread - The New York Times — from r/WorldNews at 13:26: Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu shared a fake video from the Hallmark series 'Pandemic' and claimed it as evidence that Iran was covering up its coronavirus deaths → https://is.gd/LYrDBt15:42
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +1758 cases (now 962050), +10 deaths (now 49176), +163 recoveries (now 203176) — Germany: +1658 cases (now 80641), +14 deaths (now 962) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239), +5 recoveries (now 10)15:52
CoronaBot/r/worldnews: Pastor sorry after service caused wave of coronavirus infections in France: Thiebault Geyer wanted to say “sorry to God for my selfishness” after officials confirmed that around 2,500 of his parishioners have contracted coronavirus. At least 17 of those have died. (10710 votes) | https://redd.it/ftkaah15:52
sYN4P515"sorry"15:57
mefistofeleslol15:57
bin_bashhonestly i just think those people should be refused medical treatment15:58
voltage555t16:00
mefistofelesbin_bash: hmm, that would be really troublesome :P to say the least16:00
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 13:45 UTC: Ex-FDA chief warns 'parts of our lives' will stay shut down without a coronavirus drug by fall: Scott Gottlieb said Thursday the sense of "urgency" being applied to the development of a COVID-19 vaccine needs to be applied to developing a therapeutic. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/1GyGOR16:00
mefistofelesI mean, if for some reason hospitals or governments refused to treat patients based on ideologies16:00
mefistofelesor even, ignorance16:01
bin_bashit would be appropriate to refuse treatment to those who refused to social distance16:01
bin_bashthey made their choice, and they should die with it16:01
mefistofelesnot really, no16:02
mefistofelesbut I guess this is a long discussion that's not worth having here16:02
mefistofelesI mean, I do get the sentiment, don't get me wrong16:02
LjLi get the sentiment of feeling like i want to shoot some people when they do certain things, but then i'm still for due process when i'm not being actively but temporarily mad at something16:10
gildartsIf we don't have due process for everyone, we will eventually have due process for no one.16:15
LjLthe analogy i had in mind was originally with something slightly different but i thought i'd drop that one16:16
ubLIXwith apologies to Orwell, "All due processes are equal, but some due processes are more equal than others."16:17
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 14:00 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Amazon to give workers face masks, US jobless claims skyrocket — from r/WorldNews at 14:00: UK Government Is Using Coronavirus As Excuse To Ramp Up Surveillance → https://is.gd/QugdiB16:18
IronYmaybe not death16:20
IronYbut when this is all over, these people should at least be at the minimum subject to a court of their peers16:20
ubLIXassistance for framing the post-covidocalypse narrative: https://slatestarcodex.com/2020/04/01/book-review-the-precipice/16:28
ubLIX^ this reviewer goes long on existential risk context: "We cannot take infinite time for this; the universe is expanding, and for each year we spend not doing interstellar colonization, three galaxies cross the cosmological event horizon and become forever unreachable"16:30
LjLubLIX, some people's idea of due process is "i will load before shooting"16:30
ubLIXLjL: heh16:32
ubLIXforgetting that quote for a moment, the book review is quite a good read, and does dwell on pandemics for a moment16:32
LjLubLIX, it looks longer than the book!16:34
penny_why are people so obsessed with humanity lasting roever. just live your life who cares about what's happening in thousands or millions of years. Why is colonizing the universe even desireable?16:34
penny_forever*16:34
ubLIXpenny_: the linked book review addresses that question16:35
LjL"humanity lasting forever" is kind of our driving principle as a species (and the driving principle of all the species, really)16:35
ubLIX(on behalf of the book, which does also)16:35
LjLthat doesn't mean we have a duty to strive towards that goal as individual, in my opinion... but it's just kind of a scientific fact16:35
ubLIXit is a kind of tautological necessity of any organism borne of natural selection16:36
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 14:30 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Spain death toll passes 10,000 with record single-day rise of 950: Iran passes 50,000 cases and 3,136 deaths; Russia and Afghanistan record single-day records; Catalonia asks Spanish army for help; Thailand imposes national curfew [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/P1HXKA16:36
penny_>A fatal injury to either of you would snuff out the entire future of humanity. Every song ever composed, every picture ever painted, every book ever written by all the greatest authors of the millennia would die stillborn. Millions of people would never meet their true loves, or get to raise their children. All of the triumphs and tragedies of16:36
penny_humanity, from the conquests of Alexander to the moon landings, would come to nothing if you hit a rock and cracked your skull.16:36
penny_yeah but no one would be around to care so what's the problem?16:36
dTalpenny_: I mean if you're gonna go nihilistic go all the way, why not just stop eating16:36
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +1384 cases (now 963434), +26 deaths (now 49202), +78 recoveries (now 203254) — US: +903 cases (now 216265), +19 deaths (now 5132), +26 recoveries (now 8904) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239), +5 recoveries (now 10)16:37
penny_no i want to enjoy my life but i dont really care if humanity ends one day16:37
dTalwhat do you value? your own personal pleasure alone?16:37
penny_no i also highly value limiting suffering among sentient beings16:37
LjLdTal, i took a jab at some twitterer yesterday who encouraged our PM (as if he cares!) to specifically say in his announcement that quick walks were forbidden... told them why not forbid breathing, i suspect that would get rid of the virus16:37
ubLIXwell eliminating sentient beings is one absolute path to eliminating the suffering, but i don't suppose you're proposing that16:38
penny_im just proposing that we focus on making life better for people in the near future16:38
dTalpenny_: I can naively fulfil your utility function by immediately euthenizing everyone except you, who I give a very nice VR headet16:39
BradInVancouverThere are more sentient beings than just people, right?16:39
penny_oh id be happier without the vr headset16:39
LjLi am not a huge fan of perpetuating myself. but trying to push that view on others would be futile, and likely just annoying to them. it's my view, and it doesn't really match the tautological necessity of any organism borne of natural selection, to use a phrasing i just came up with16:39
penny_probably BradInVancouver16:39
dTalin that case penny_ all i can say is that your personal utility function is atypical16:39
dTalmost people would not be happy euthanizing the species16:40
LjLdTal, okay, now we're talking... which kind of VR headset? i have a Daydream, it's been nice but ultimately underwhelming16:40
penny_exploring the planet without anyone in it seems more fun than a vr headset is what im saying16:40
LjLBradInVancouver, i would say yes, but that's also a can of worms that i'd rather keep for later in case we run out of food16:40
BradInVancouverProbably? Are chimps not sentient? Dogs?16:41
penny_ive actually had this fantasy often16:41
LjLBradInVancouver, i would likely benefit from a definition of sentient16:41
LjL%w sentient16:41
dTalthat argument all boils down to some terribly boring debate about the true meaning of the word "sentient"16:41
BrainstormLjL, sentient  — adjective: 1. Experiencing sensation, thought, or feeling, 2. Able to consciously perceive through the use of sense faculties, 3. (chiefly&#32;science fiction) Possessing human-like awareness and intelligence [... want %more?] → https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sentient16:41
LjL%wik sentiency16:41
penny_BradInVancouver unclear16:41
BrainstormLjL, no such article found on the English Wikipedia16:41
gildartsPersonally have limited interest in VR until they develop some kind of full-immersion tech.16:41
LjLBrainstorm should be more sentient16:41
LjLthat definition #2 brings up "consciousness", which is another can of worms16:42
LjL(good thing we have all these cans of worms in case we run out of food)16:42
penny_vr still makes a ton of people dizzy and nautious and even people who tolerate it well cant last more than a couple hours16:43
penny_just a thought, the end of humanity probably would be a good thing for the other life forms on the planet16:44
gildartsLjL: This makes you look at transporters rather differently. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQHBAdShgYI16:44
penny_if we are to be effectively altrusitic towards them, perhaps euthanizing humanity would indeed be best16:44
penny_;)16:44
penny_we love you coronachan!16:45
penny_if u think that's a nihilistic statement you dont know what nihilism is. i have alternative values, not no values.16:46
gildartspenny_: For me, if I had to personally kill every whale/dolphin/monkey/ant/etc on the planet to keep my children alive, I would do it, no question. I, nor anyone, needs to do that, but it isn't a hard decision.16:46
penny_i think i would do the opposite16:47
penny_not that i have children16:47
penny_i think id kill all the humans before all the other animals16:47
ubLIXif your objective is to reduce suffering, perhaps you could agree that suffering scales with degree of sentience, and that humans therefore suffer more than other animals, and that it would take a very long time for the enjoyment of caterpillars and such to offset the mass human anticipation of imminent euthanasia16:47
penny_hmm wouldnt more people spread around the universe just mean more people suffering?16:48
penny_most people on earth seem to have pretty shitty lives really16:48
penny_id say humanity is net suffering right now16:48
penny_why would it be any different on other planets?16:48
ubLIXwe'd have to solve an awful lot of problems before other planets becomes a concern. improving our navigation suffering is likely to be one of them16:49
gildartsHonestly, probably a better question for ##philosophy.16:49
ubLIXor ##effectivealtruism16:50
penny_well this article is highly philosphical so thats why im responding philosophicaly16:50
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +1771 cases (now 965205), +51 deaths (now 49253), +20 recoveries (now 203274) — Germany: +1087 cases (now 81728), +35 deaths (now 997) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239), +5 recoveries (now 10)16:52
LjLwell we can talk about altruism in philosophy, or we can talk about16:52
LjL18<25Brainstorm18> New from r/WorldNews at 14:20 UTC: worldnews: Masks destined for Canada re-routed to US by DHL → https://is.gd/yCKFc616:52
mefistofelesubLIX> ^ this reviewer goes long on existential risk context: "We cannot take infinite time for this; the universe is expanding, and for each year we spend not doing interstellar16:53
mefistofeles                  colonization, three galaxies cross the cosmological event horizon and become forever unreachable"16:53
mefistofelesoops, crap paste16:53
mefistofelesbut btw, ubLIX , that's just not how universe expansion works, fwiw16:53
mefistofelesso that's a really wrong statement, as is16:54
penny_even if it was true it's the most absurd thing to be concerned about it's just laughable16:54
ubLIXwell i gave that quote as a funny example of silliness16:54
mefistofelesubLIX: Ah, ok, thought so :)16:55
mefistofelesjust wanting to make it clear16:55
ubLIXwhilst suggesting that in spite of it, the review and the book seemed interesting16:55
ubLIXalthough my sense of its silliness was more in penny_'s camp than the physical16:56
LjLgildarts, "Truth be told, you can really only know that YOU are conscious, and it seems polite to give other people the benefit of the doubt" ← that is pretty much the tl;dr of my personal view of this whole thing16:58
gildartsCGPGrey makes good videos in general, imo.16:59
penny_LjL what about other animals?16:59
LjLpenny_, well, the slightly less short version is, "other people do seem to act and process information in a very similar way as i do, *hence* it is reasonable to give them the benefit of the doubt". so when it comes to other lifeforms, it is only natural for me to treat them as more or less conscious/sentient/whatever depending on how close they seem to be to also feeling like they process information in a way that appears sentient to me. it's very 17:01
LjLme-centered, but i'm not sure how it could be otherwise. rocks could be sentient beings for all i know, and just express it differently... but... likely not?17:01
penny_I'm assuming consciousness is a function of the nervous system and some animals have it to varrious extents17:02
LjLwhen we cannot really define it, i would be cautious to make any such assumption17:03
penny_well if you get hit hard on the head youll go unconcsious17:04
gildartsDolphins, whales, some or all apes, a few others animals,  might be conscious. I would still pick any human over any of them, but I'm definitely not a fan of people who mistreat or kill them.17:04
penny_oh i bet reptiles and fish are too to some extent17:04
penny_ants maybe not, sea sponges no17:05
IronYturns out my companys biggest revenue stream is the Bill and Malinda gates foundation17:05
IronYTIL17:05
LjLpenny_, well is there any specific nervous sytem difference that you can point to that corroborates that distinction?17:06
gildartsDepends on how tied into intelligence conscious is. Most if not all fish, are relatively dumb.17:06
LjLgildarts, some or all apes have been inoculated with SARS-COV-2 to see if they could be re-infected (and probably for other reasons, but that's the one i know about)17:06
penny_this is just my sense LjL17:06
penny_based on observing behavior17:07
ubLIXi think i few moments in a dictionary of neurology would allow me to point to a nervous system difference that would reject consciousness in reptiles and fish17:07
gildartsOne relatively simple test/low bar would be if they could pass the mirror test.17:07
penny_why should that be the bar?17:07
penny_lol no way ubLIX17:08
penny_there's no mechanistic theory of consciousness17:08
ubLIXthere is17:08
ubLIXyou just haven't read it17:08
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 14:57 UTC: New York vets confused by mayor's ask for ventilators: 'We've already responded': Bill de Blasio asks vets to help donate 15,000 ventilators before worst of peak Covid-19 cases, but doctors say the few they had have already been donated [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/2pH38W17:08
LjLpenny_, but you cannot rule out that behavior is intelligent in a way that is different enough from our way to go on about things, that you just completely "miss" it. and then what about beings like bees and ants? they may not seem very intelligent taken individually, but collectively they do impressive things. can we possibly consider them sentient organisms that are simply made up of less-impressive sub-organisms (just like we're made out of cells after 17:09
LjLall, and originally multicellular organisms probably came from colonies of single-celled ones)?17:09
penny_theory in what sense?17:09
gildartsThere is no objective way to set the criteria. So I would draw the line at or above the mirror test personally.17:09
penny_why?17:09
ubLIXpenny_: you might be convinced by Antonia Damasio's popular accounts17:09
gildartsIt demonstrates a base level of self awareness.17:09
penny_yeah bees and ants might be conscious17:10
penny_id set a much lower bar gildarts17:10
gildartspenny_: I assumed that.17:10
ubLIXpenny_: *Antonio17:10
gildartsBut you already said that you would consider killing off the humans rather than other animals, so I don't really care where you put the bar. :)17:11
penny_for the sake of the reduction of suffering and a healthy sustainable ecosystem yeah17:12
penny_i would consider it17:12
ubLIXnote to self: don't put penny_ in charge of any large red buttons17:13
penny_well nuking the panet wouldnt help the enviornment much17:13
penny_planet17:13
eaxomara few cities though17:13
penny_i bioweapon would be better ;)17:14
penny_a17:14
penny_i guess the basic idea is to me suffering is worth than death17:15
penny_worse*17:15
gildartsOkay, definitely don't let penny_ within a few hundred miles of where they store small pox, etc.17:15
penny_coronachan is doing the job for me17:16
ubLIXwith a great deal of suffering17:16
gildartsI would say that if you aren't conscious/self aware, you can't really suffer.17:16
penny_in the near term17:16
penny_gotta look at dat long run suffering curve17:16
ubLIXlets draw the curtain on this topic, shall we17:16
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +1162 cases (now 966367), +9 deaths (now 49262), +39 recoveries (now 203313) — US: +650 cases (now 217372), +5 deaths (now 5145), +38 recoveries (now 8942) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239), +5 recoveries (now 10)17:22
izpenny_ is gonna try to derail a train to wake up the people :b17:24
penny_im just responding to this book review17:24
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 15:15 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Pelosi announces bipartisan House group to make sure $2tn is 'spent wisely' — from r/WorldNews at 15:15: Putin Extends Nationwide Paid Holiday as Coronavirus Numbers See Sharpest Rise Yet → https://is.gd/HG3MG817:25
ubLIXLjL: been looking at offloop, Spain, Italy, France and UK, deaths in log plot; do you think they're all tending to ~20-25k?17:33
IronY"20 people gathering for a backyard party last night in Brampton. Man in his 20's now facing a fine up to $100K after ignoring physical distancing requirements of public health. Mayor says this is "too serious for anyone to be reckless and foolish."17:34
mefistofelesubLIX: trajectories are not exactly the same, though, as far as I can see, but it depends on the testing as well17:36
mefistofelessince testing is not the same17:36
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +1170 cases (now 967537), +46 deaths (now 49308), +222 recoveries (now 203535) — Afghanistan: +2 cases (now 239), +5 recoveries (now 10) — Albania: +18 cases (now 277), +1 deaths (now 16)17:37
LjLubLIX, i can't tell really, the UK graph looks a bit erratic, and if you do the 100-case alignment thing, flawed as it might be due to the arbitrariness of 100, the curves don't really all match17:37
mefistofelesGermany is following closely Italy's trajectory, fwiw17:37
suaefar[m]<ubLIX "LjL: been looking at offloop, Sp"> Who knows... I follow the trends and try to predict the numbers the next day. And it was horribly wrong for Spain today17:37
mefistofelesFrance also somewhat close, but Spain is different17:37
LjLsuaefar[m], has Spain released the numbers for today?17:37
LjLmefistofeles, Germany is not following Italy in terms of deaths, though, that's what ubLIX was looking at17:38
suaefar[m]Yes 950 death in 24h17:38
suaefar[m]I saw 590 coming... https://github.com/suaefar/covid-19-deceased-prediction17:38
LjLdamn17:38
suaefar[m]They were waiting for days to see lower numbers, but this is a new record17:39
aradeshwhich country has had new record?17:39
LjLSpain17:39
IronY%cases us17:39
BrainstormIronY: In all areas, US, there are 217661 cases, 5153 deaths (2.4% of cases), 8973 recoveries as of April 02, 15:34Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.17:39
aradeshoffloop has it as 616. is it just out of date?17:39
aradeshspains confirmed cases are reducing though17:40
aradeshbut deaths lag behind that a bit17:40
mefistofelessuaefar[m]: how were/are you predicting?17:40
LjLyeah, not sure if offloop is updated, it does say april 217:40
aradeshUK had over 500 again today17:40
suaefar[m]<mefistofeles "suaefar: how were/are you predic"> Just fitting polinomials to the JHU data17:40
penny_ok having just finished the book review, ill just say this. I think we should be prioritizing making life better for people in the near term, not limiting existential risk. that's my take.17:40
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 15:28 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: VW extends Chattanooga plant closure to April 12, Amazon gives workers face masks — from r/WorldNews at 15:28: Putin Extends Nationwide Paid Holiday as Coronavirus Numbers See Sharpest Rise Yet → https://is.gd/QugdiB17:41
rahiakherajot[m]In India there have been a total of 2,341 cases as of 2020-04-02 15:34:00 UTC. Of these 2,096 (89.5%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 177 (7.6%) have definitely recovered and 68 (2.9%) have died.17:41
mefistofelessuaefar[m]: I see, yes, that's likely to give errors specially now that there's some trending towards peaking/slowdown17:42
BobCatIs there anyone in this channel NOT wearing a face mask?17:42
ubLIXLjL: i was just thinking they all looked like 20-25 albeit via slightly different paths. In a way, UK looks worst to me17:42
penny_im not wearing a mask17:42
mefistofelesBobCat: I'm not17:42
BobCatWHO and CDC are still killing people...17:42
suaefar[m]<mefistofeles "suaefar: I see, yes, that's like"> Yes, of course. I do it to have a reference what to expect and how to interpret new numbers in that context17:43
mefistofelesI mean, we are confined17:43
penny_u wear a mask while at home BobCat ?17:43
LjLubLIX, the UK is definitely going to get worse before it gets any better... whether that will entail crossing paths with italy, i don't know17:43
BobCatI mean when you go out17:43
penny_oh only if i go to the store not just for a walk17:43
mefistofelesBobCat: also, it's not as if you can get those easily17:43
penny_yeah i have six n95s im saving for gorcery trips17:43
BobCatFor once, Trump is right, use a scarf if you have nothing else17:43
BobCatpenny you can reuse them, bake at 160F for 20 minutes17:44
ubLIXLjL: looks like it'll cross paths if lock down doesn't show a dramatic effect very soon17:44
mefistofelessuaefar[m]: I suggest you look at the log scale plot for new confirmed cases (in previous days/week or so) vs total confirmed cases, I guess it's easier to predict there17:44
penny_a lot of people in this channel think he's right about heteregenous lockdown17:44
LjLubLIX, honestly i don't see how it could do otherwise when most lines of work are still active :\17:45
LjLpeople need money etc, so i don't know, it may be good in the long term, but it certainly isn't bringing direct COVID deaths down17:45
mefistofelesspain and Italy showing signs of slowdown even in the death curve, imho17:45
ubLIXlooks like, mefistofeles17:46
LjLitaly only like... yesterday. we'll see what we get today17:46
mefistofelesstill, bit to soon, 6 days of difference, so too soon17:46
ubLIXSpain especially, i mean17:46
mefistofelesI mean, compared to slowdown in Italy17:46
mefistofelesubLIX: yes17:46
penny_BobCat what do u think of method 1? https://www.sages.org/n-95-re-use-instructions/17:46
mefistofelesslowdown of cases in Italy, I meant17:47
suaefar[m]<mefistofeles "suaefar: I suggest you look at t"> I use log deaths vs time, as I want an extrapolation in time17:47
LjLspain has both Madrid and Catalonia which are large liabilities17:47
LjL%wa life expectancy in italy, spain, united kingdom17:47
mefistofelessuaefar[m]: you can get that form the one I suggest as well, fwiw17:47
mefistofeles*from17:47
BrainstormLjL, Wolfram|Alpha (Italy Spain United Kingdom | life expectancy): Results: Italy | 82.4 years Spain | 81.8 years United Kingdom | 80.9 years → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=life+expectancy+in+italy%2C+spain%2C+united+kingdom17:47
LjL%wa median age in italy, spain, united kingdom17:47
BrainstormLjL, Wolfram|Alpha (Italy Spain United Kingdom | median age): Results: Italy | 45.9 years Spain | 43.2 years United Kingdom | 40.2 years (2015 estimates) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=median+age+in+italy%2C+spain%2C+united+kingdom17:47
LjLthese won't be the same next year, i can say that much17:51
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +8900 cases (now 976437), +184 deaths (now 49492), +1298 recoveries (now 204833) — US: +9006 cases (now 226378), +189 deaths (now 5334), +1323 recoveries (now 10265) — New York, US: +8480 cases (now 92381), +154 deaths (now 2373)17:52
BobCatHey stats nerds, does that look like a 5% mortality rate?17:54
synaps3!world17:56
synaps3%world17:56
ubLIX%data world17:56
BrainstormubLIX: In all areas, World, there are 976437 cases, 49492 deaths (5.1% of cases), 204833 recoveries as of April 02, 15:49Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 19.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries).17:56
synaps3danke17:56
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 15:47 UTC: UK coronavirus live: death toll rises by 569 to 2,921: Boris Johnson still symptomatic; Matt Hancock to address testing; Eddie Large’s son says comedian has died after contracting coronavirus — from r/WorldNews at 15:47: UK coronavirus: death toll rises by 569 to 2,921 → https://is.gd/iSDEQ517:57
rahiakherajot[m]%data18:00
Brainstormrahiakherajot[m]: In all areas, World, there are 976437 cases, 49492 deaths (5.1% of cases), 204833 recoveries as of April 02, 15:49Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 19.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries).18:00
aradeshalmost a million18:01
BobCatwhat does the millionth customer win?18:02
BobCatall expenses paid cruise?18:02
ubLIXa raised eyebrow in the crematorium18:03
LjLitaly civil protection press conference blah blah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SrT7cIJGZFM18:03
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +5424 cases (now 981861), +774 deaths (now 50266), +1431 recoveries (now 206264) — US: +600 cases (now 226978), +9 deaths (now 5343) — Italy: +4668 cases (now 115242), +760 deaths (now 13915), +1431 recoveries (now 18278)18:07
aradeshthere's no press conference here, i wonde why18:08
LjLitaly civil protection conference starting now, transcribing18:09
LjLSergio Iavicoli is present, director of epidemiology at INAIL18:09
aradeshlol, football players complaining about now being paid (sorry that i find it funny, they just earn so much)18:09
aradeshnot*18:09
LjLaradesh, johnson is "still symptomatic"18:09
LjLtoday's bulletin18:09
LjLtotal of positives: 8304918:09
aradeshLjL: yeah but usually they've been having other politicians giving briefings18:09
LjL+2477 compared to yesterday18:10
aradeshmaybe it's because yesterdays corona briefing went so well... i'm glad it wasn't just me who thought, "???" at the answers they were giving https://cdn.cnn.com/cnn/.e/interactive/html5-video-media/2020/04/02/telegraph_front_page_desktop.jpg18:10
LjL4053 are in ICU, 28540 are symptomatic in hospital, while 50464 (61%) are at home18:10
aradeshwas like, "we can't make enough tests because of not having a chemical in a big enough quantity" "what chemical is it?" "a special chemical"18:10
LjLwe note this number is growing as a percentage18:10
LjL+760 deceased18:10
LjLtotal recovered: 20278, +143118:11
LjL"cross" system: 105 patients transfered from lombardy to elsewhere, +2 compared to yesterday18:11
LjL32 were transfered to Germany18:11
LjLthere are 16506 volunteers active18:11
LjLpre-triage tents outside hospitals are 790, 151 in prisons (same as before)18:12
LjLgot 101 million in donations18:12
LjLtoday the second medical task force has left to lombardy, piedmont, emilia-romagna, trentino-south tyrol and valle d'aosta18:13
LjLthe structure at Bergamo's fair is ready18:14
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 16:03 UTC: Oil prices surge after Trump claims Russia and Saudi Arabia agree deal - business live: Rolling coverage of the latest economic and financial news as oil prices jump by more than 30% and the US jobless report reveals scale of coronavirus damage [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NWALGu18:14
ecksso definitely a plateau but not really going down yet18:14
LjLecks, do you have the "true" number as usual?18:14
LjLtrue new cases18:14
LjLnow letting doctor whatever speak:18:15
LjLtoday's subject is the relationship between work and health18:15
ecks+4,668 new cases and +760 deaths18:15
LjLthose who all still working, starting with healthcare workers, those are 9.7% of infected, a large number18:15
LjLecks, so yeah similar... i have a 4k-something in mind from yesterday18:16
ecksyeah, 4,782 yesterday18:16
onderscoreLjL: how long for are healthcare workers quarantined for?18:16
LjLthis is "linear" but it really needs to be linear with a slightly smaller daily increase imo :\18:16
LjLonderscore, i believe they aren't ;(18:16
LjLonderscore, if they're positive they have to wear PPEs18:16
LjLwhich is kind of ridiculous18:16
LjLalso implying that if they aren't they don't18:17
LjLthis doctor is saying words, i will spare you from reading them18:17
onderscoreLjL: if that's the case, then it's not so the healthcare system won't run out of staff18:18
onderscoreit's so*18:18
LjLsure, but it's not great18:18
onderscoreI agree18:18
LjL%cases greece18:18
BrainstormLjL: In all areas, Greece, there are 1514 cases, 53 deaths (3.5% of cases), 61 recoveries as of April 02, 16:04Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Greece for time series data.18:18
LjLthat's not a very good death rate considering the relatively small number of cases18:19
LjLit's often less than that when around 1500 cases18:19
LjL(based on my brain's memories of it)18:19
LjL%wa median age in greece18:19
BrainstormLjL, Wolfram|Alpha (Greece | median age): Result: 43.3 years (world rank: 7th) (2015 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=median+age+in+greece18:19
tinwhiskers%wa median age in Tonga18:20
Brainstormtinwhiskers, Wolfram|Alpha (Tonga | median age): Result: 21.3 years (world rank: 149th) (2015 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=median+age+in+Tonga18:20
LjLhe's talking about "psycho-social risk" now, they'll talk to the union of psychologists tomorrow, and create a platform and support guidelines to offer a coordinated network18:20
LjLfor prevention of burn-out18:20
LjLtinwhiskers, that's pretty close... not even an order of magnitude different18:21
LjLquestions now:18:21
tinwhiskersHeh18:21
genera1514 cases is how much of the population? could the bot that do automatically?18:21
AimHereGreek pop is 10 million oo 0.15%18:21
AimHere*so18:22
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +948 cases (now 982809), +25 deaths (now 50291), +8 recoveries (now 206272) — Piemonte, Italy: +558 cases (now 10353), +97 deaths (now 983), +132 recoveries (now 571) — Lombardia, Italy: +1292 cases (now 46065), +367 deaths (now 7960), +814 recoveries (now 12229)18:22
LjLQ: tests, you told us the number of tests which has been 600k so far doesn't correspond to the actual number of tested people. wouldn't it be better to obtain the number of tested people from the regions, which test further? also the daily data can be influenced by that: yesterday there were more positives, but also more tests, but some of those tests will be the double tests made on recovered people, etc... wouldn't it be better to provide the actual 18:22
LjLnumber of tested people?18:22
generaso maybe not the percent is good but the per 100 00018:22
AimHereNo wait, more like 0.01518:22
LjLA: we give the number of tests because the data communicated to us by the regions is that. there are activities by the ISS that verify this number, and group together the people who have had 3 tests (since 2 negatives are required to be called recovered)18:23
LjLQ: i'd like a comment on the numbers, is it accurate to talk about "stabilization", or is it more a of decrease? and symptomatic people who are in self-isolation, there's the issue of relatives, who have to self-isolate but have not been tested, and without a test, employers do not recognize them as on sick leave. to INAIL i'd like to ask how people who got infected on the workplace are indemnified18:24
tinwhiskersgenera: offloop.net/covid19/ gives the per 100,000 rates. 14.5 currently for cases in Greece.18:25
generagood18:25
LjLA: since a few days ago, 27 March at least, we are witnessing a decrease of people hospitalized, of people who to ICU, today that number is very small, with an increment since yesterday of +18 people, so we're seeing a number of values that show stabilization. i cannot tell you if we're already decreasing, or when that will begin, but what I can say is that we must keep on with the restrictive measures and correct behaviors, because very little is enough 18:26
LjLto create a spike in contagion.18:26
aradeshfinally UK press briefing starts18:26
LjLA by INAIL doctor: the relatives of positives are in self-isolation for 14 days, and as to the specifics, we are protecting those people, although I thank you for the suggestion and we'll have internal feedback about that. About applying... I'd like to remind we activated a specific number for COVID-19 work incidents, and when deaths occur we quickly indemnify the survivors.18:28
LjLWe are also proactive, so we follow news of injuries from the press too, even if they are not reported to us directly.18:28
LjLQ: what the guidelines for companies and industries to restart production, while allowing workers to operate safely?18:30
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 16:19 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Labour urges UK government to publish findings of 2016 pandemic drill — from r/WorldNews at 16:19: Anger as Japanese Prime Minister offers two cloth masks per family while refusing to declare coronavirus emergency → https://is.gd/ZEfIlG18:31
LjLA: This is a central topic and it's probably the most complex one to manage. Aside from media debates on PPEs, which are important, I think management is more complex than that, for instance it's important to regular gatherings, hygiene... as the PM told us, we'll have to face a "phrase 2" that will happen gradually. One very important measure will be managing vulnerable workers.18:32
LjLThere will be a doctor who will be able to manage older workers or those with chronic diseases.18:32
oxalisI got 4 KN95 masks, and I think they're counterfit18:33
LjL80% of people working are working from home, which was a forced choice and not optimal, but research on this is also important. Medicine focuses on diagnostics, treatments and vaccines, but it's also important to find management solutions, while keeping health at the core with scientific requirements, but they must be combined with work necessities, and that is a challenge.18:33
LjLoxalis, what makes you think that?18:34
oxalisThe Box says FDA approved...18:34
oxalisThe FDA doesn't approve KN95 masks18:34
oxalisThey approve N95 masks18:34
oxalishttps://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/Iadoc5BI/F08E9019-8BE3-495E-B126-F2A083D43CA9.JPG18:36
oxalishttps://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/mAVUSYqN/BF6C5423-62F5-48A6-8AE5-7E2A37A37412.JPG18:36
LjLoxalis, what is the difference? my FFP2 masks are KN95, or at least that's what's written on them. but i was never clear on the relationship between American N95 etc ratings, and European FFPsomething18:37
oxalis"Point of Attention #3" concerns me as well18:37
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +4072 cases (now 986881), +104 deaths (now 50395), +100 recoveries (now 206372) — US: +1613 cases (now 228674), +24 deaths (now 5369), +15 recoveries (now 10280) — Turkey: +2456 cases (now 18135), +79 deaths (now 356), +82 recoveries (now 415)18:37
oxalisLjL technically there is no difference.. It's the chain of custody/documentation about the providance of the materials that makes the difference18:38
LjLah18:38
oxalisbut item #3 though18:38
LjLwell, Italy apparently received a batch of masks that stated they were FPP2 and so they gave them to doctors, then turns out they really weren't,  and there was a bit of a (small) scandal18:38
oxalis"Please don't approach the fireworks"18:38
LjLoxalis, that sounds like a terrible translation from chinese18:38
oxalisI think it means "not for smoke"18:39
oxalis🤷🏿18:39
aradeshweird choice of words... our official doing press conference is talking about his "5 pillar plan"18:40
LjLthe press conference is still ongoing by the way, but the questions are making me sleepy18:40
LjLwell, now it's no longer ongoing18:40
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 16:34 UTC: UK coronavirus live: Matt Hancock holds daily briefing, as hospital death toll rises by 569: Health secretary writes off £13.4bn of historic NHS debt; Boris Johnson still symptomatic; comedian Eddie Large dies after contracting coronavirus [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/iSDEQ518:47
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 16:50 UTC: Watch live: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo holds a press conference on the coronavirus outbreak: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo is holding his daily press conference on the COVID-19 outbreak, which has infected more than 84,000 people in the state as of Thursday morning. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/iItyC219:03
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +3907 cases (now 990788), +309 deaths (now 50704), +4 recoveries (now 206376) — US: +3432 cases (now 232106), +187 deaths (now 5556), +4 recoveries (now 10284) — New Jersey, US: +3335 cases (now 25590), +182 deaths (now 537)19:07
JigsySlowly reaching a million.19:13
JigsyStill nowhere near Black Death levels, though.19:14
JigsyLike, not even close.19:14
ThomCat[m]Well, concidering "Bubonic plague is fatal in about 50-70% of untreated cases, but perhaps 10-15% when treated"19:16
Strantrickt[m]%data Turkey19:16
BrainstormStrantrickt[m]: In all areas, Turkey, there are 18135 cases, 356 deaths (2.0% of cases), 415 recoveries as of April 02, 17:04Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Turkey for time series data.19:16
JigsyThomCat[m]: Yeah, but medicine and science have advanced since the middle ages.19:17
rajrajrajDo you think covid bomb will explode in india19:18
JigsyThough the middle ages makes me wonder what the fuck happened given say, saniation and hygine.19:18
JigsyEsp. when you look back at the Romans.19:18
python476I mailed my city hall after a call for help, no answer19:18
python476weird19:18
romarehey Strantrickt[m] 601 of them are medical workers that are the victim of the safety measures taken by that government you like19:18
ThomCat[m]Jigsyit's still a very silly comparison.  At the highest level, bubonic plague is a bacteria, not a virus19:18
JigsyThomCat[m]: It still decimated 60% of Europe.19:19
rajrajrajIs India under control?19:19
ThomCat[m]Yes, but COVID-19 was never going to be the bubonic plague.19:19
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 17:06 UTC: UK coronavirus live: Matt Hancock sets goal of 100,000 Covid-19 tests per day by end of April: Health secretary writes off £13.4bn of historic NHS debt; Boris Johnson still symptomatic; comedian Eddie Large dies after contracting coronavirus [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/iSDEQ519:19
Strantrickt[m]<romare "hey Strantrickt 601 of them are "> Dear health workers19:21
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +6724 cases (now 997512), +277 deaths (now 50981), +2255 recoveries (now 208631) — US: +3866 cases (now 235972), +219 deaths (now 5775), +20 recoveries (now 10304) — Louisiana, US: +2726 cases (now 9150), +37 deaths (now 310)19:22
romareStrantrickt[m]: not that very dear according to MoH19:22
Nokajieddie large went to hospital initially over heart problems, apparently he caught the covid while there19:29
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 17:24 UTC: /u/The_Fadge: Cina — from r/WorldNews at 17:24: A 'faith healer' who sold COVID-19 protection kits in London for £91 is now being investigated → https://is.gd/45Qe0J19:36
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +645 cases (now 998157), +483 deaths (now 51464), +60 recoveries (now 208691) — Afghanistan: +21 cases (now 258), +5 recoveries (now 10) — Alabama, US: +53 cases (now 1161), +4 deaths (now 32)19:37
LjLhttps://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/en/  Milan and Turin sure aren't looking good despite general "stability" in Italy, if you look under "The Italian provinces with most cases"19:37
BobCat%data world19:38
BrainstormBobCat: In all areas, World, there are 998157 cases, 51464 deaths (5.2% of cases), 208691 recoveries as of April 02, 17:34Z. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 19.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries).19:38
python476M hit by tonight19:44
mefistofelesso NYC now getting more cases than any other country and soon more deaths as well :/19:45
Nokajijust went down from 999,907 cases to 998,76719:45
tinwhiskersThe totals are doing weird things sometimes. That needs some attention19:46
AimHereSometimes there are data glitches that get corrected. The last I looked, Florida's deaths tripled overnight, but I suspect that's an error19:51
AimHereEither that or the Spring Break kids visited their grandmas a week ago19:51
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +1394 cases (now 999551) — France: +2116 cases (now 59105), +471 deaths (now 4503), +1493 recoveries (now 12428) — Afghanistan: +21 cases (now 258), +5 recoveries (now 10)19:52
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 17:39 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 226,000 as torrent of jobless claims continues — from r/WorldNews at 17:39: More than 1,000 in US die in a single day from coronavirus, doubling the worst daily death toll of the flu → https://is.gd/QugdiB19:52
oriba"In April 2015, 774 plaintiffs launched a lawsuit against Johns Hopkins University, the pharmaceutical company Bristol-Myers Squibb, and the Rockefeller Foundation(...)" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guatemala_syphilis_experiments20:01
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +1219 cases (now 1000770), +69 deaths (now 51367) since 3 minutes ago — Algeria: +23 deaths (now 86) since 3 minutes ago — Georgia: +3 cases (now 134) since 3 minutes ago20:06
Nokaji1,000,16820:08
tinwhiskers\o/20:09
Nokajia trifling detail20:09
tinwhiskersCan we stop counting now?20:09
euod[m]  rajrajraj nowhere is immune to it, no.20:12
euod[m]rajrajraj: there's cases in every country where there's testing.20:12
BobCata million people and one clown20:14
tinwhiskerseuod[m]: there's no cases here in Tonga20:14
tinwhiskersAlthough we do test overseas so strictly you are correct20:15
LjLtinwhiskers, how are your lungs?20:15
tinwhiskersMuch the same LjL20:15
LjLhm20:15
LjLwell if you manage to stay in the one country with no cases, maybe that's actually better than finding a doctor with a clue20:16
penny_a small island sounds ideal20:16
tinwhiskersYeah. Perhaps. That die is cast now so no point in second guessing it.20:17
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +721 cases (now 1001491), +17 deaths (now 51384), +23 recoveries (now 210214) since figures from 2 minutes ago — Turkey: +622 cases (now 18757) since figures from 2 minutes ago — Austria: +30 cases (now 11106) since figures from 2 minutes ago20:20
tinwhiskersrajrajraj: looking at India it's going very exponential with a fairly consistent doubling time of about 4 days. At least the testing ability had not yet been overcome, but as yet the lockdowns in India are not having any real effect.20:33
tinwhiskersBut then the lockdowns have only been in place for about a week so you wouldn't expect any effect yet20:34
____GOD____Both india and africa will likely be devistated20:36
____GOD____Any here know if there is already a plan to bill china for the World pandemic?20:37
tinwhiskersMaybe you should troll somewhere else20:38
____GOD____Actually serious20:38
tinwhiskersThen, no.20:38
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 18:24 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 226,000 as torrent of jobless claims continues — from r/WorldNews at 18:24: More than 1,000 in US die in a single day from coronavirus, doubling the worst daily death toll of the flu → https://is.gd/QugdiB20:40
Nokajihttps://www.businessinsider.com/georgia-gov-says-he-just-learned-about-asymptomatic-spread-coronavirus-2020-4?op=1&r=US&IR=T20:49
NokajiGeorgia's governor claims he didn't know asymptomatic people could spread the coronavirus 'until the last 24 hours.' Doctors have been warning about it for months.20:50
tinwhiskersJesus20:50
dRGoRiHello y'all20:50
NokajiGeorgia Gov. Brian Kemp will issue a shelter-in-place order for Georgia residents on Thursday [today: Ed] to help stop the spread of the coronavirus20:51
tinwhiskersDereliction of duty20:51
tinwhiskersNokaji: is he Republican?20:54
tinwhiskers(you probably don't need to answer that)20:55
dRGoRi!cases France20:55
CovBotIn France there have been a total of 59,105 cases as of 2020-04-02 18:33:00 UTC. Of these 42,174 (71.4%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 12,428 (21.0%) have definitely recovered and 4,503 (7.6%) have died.20:55
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 18:53 UTC: How India's coronavirus lockdown is affecting its poorest citizens – video: After Narendra Modi told Indians to ‘forget what going out means’ as the country attempts to slow the spread of Covid-19, millions of the country’s poorest residents, from day labourers to homeless citizens, are bearing the brunt of [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/QdzGnY20:59
dRGoRi%cases france21:08
BrainstormTypeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute '__getitem__' (file "/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py", line 104, in covid)21:08
Samizdathttps://archive.org/details/COVID-19-Deceptive-Agenda North Carolona osteopath, Dr. Rashid Buttar breaks down the biological, political and logistical elements of the COVID-19 agenda.21:09
BobCatOsteopath == quack, right?21:10
dunnpthis guy is a quack21:10
SamizdatSays who?21:10
dunnpHe is known for his controversial use of chelation therapy for numerous conditions, including autism and cancer.[1] He has been reprimanded by the North Carolina Board of Medical Examiners for unethical treatment of patients.21:11
BobCatIf it walks like a duck....21:11
SamizdatBack it up, sonny.21:11
dunnphttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashid_Buttar21:11
SamizdatYou too, BobCat.21:11
BobCatnice!21:11
BobCatfucking wp article slamdunk21:11
SamizdatBack it up.  No, don't just regurgitate Wikiality, the Truthiness Encyclopedia.21:11
SamizdatYou got nothin.'21:11
dunnphttps://quackwatch.org/cases/civil/buttar/complaint/21:11
dunnp%title21:12
Brainstormdunnp: From quackwatch.org: Rashid Buttar Sued for Fraud | Quackwatch21:12
SamizdatStill got nothin.'  I'm looking for something -- *anything* -- in your own words.21:12
dunnp%title https://quackwatch.org/cases/board/med/buttar/complaint/21:12
Brainstormdunnp: From quackwatch.org: Rashid Buttar Charged with Unprofessional Conduct | Quackwatch21:12
SamizdatCome on, sonny boys, you can do it.21:12
SamizdatNo, still regurgitating.21:12
dunnppretty sure thats enough21:12
SamizdatYour own words, sonny,.21:12
BobCatSamizdat he touched my peepee21:12
BobCatmy own words21:12
mefistofelescalm down21:13
SamizdatBring your parents down to the basement, let me speak with them.21:13
BobCatwho has op to quiet Samizdat?21:13
twomoonheh21:13
dRGoRiHey Mephisto ! What's the brainstorm's syntax again ?21:14
BobCatI'm part of the conspiracy, big pharma is paying me to silence you21:14
LjLSamizdat, you are quieted. that tone is unwelcome, and so is quackery.21:14
BobCatLjL your Perdue Pharma check is in the mail. Wear gloves.21:15
LjLBobCat, on the other hand, you don't need to get down to others' level21:15
pokiehllel21:15
twomoonlol perdue pharma21:17
pynadid someone say something mean about sea lions?21:17
LjL%cases France21:20
BrainstormLjL: In all areas, France, there are 59105 cases, 4503 deaths (7.6% of cases), 12428 recoveries as of 5 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France for time series data.21:20
mefistofelesdRGoRi: %cases country21:20
tinwhiskersI don't think the sea lions would stand for that21:20
LjLdRGoRi, ↑ fixed21:20
LjLsyntax was right, bot was broken21:20
mefistofelesLjL: haha, should put a try except to catch that exception ?21:21
mefistofelesI mean, not sure why it is happening, so nvm actually21:21
dRGoRiI tried that same command in the PM and an error is returned ):21:21
dRGoRiThanks21:22
Jigsy%cases world21:22
BrainstormJigsy: In all areas, World, there are 1005135 cases, 51576 deaths (5.1% of cases), 210519 recoveries as of 7 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 19.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries).21:22
dRGoRiHave a good day or night still21:26
IronYlooks like Canadas mass panic will start Friday21:32
generawhy?21:33
generaan orderly sceduled panic?21:33
IronYgenera: Government is finally going to give its projections21:34
IronYwords like 'sobering' and 'grim' are being used to describe them21:34
IronYIt wont be anyting that people 'in the know' will find alarming21:34
IronYbut the general population will kick into high gear21:34
generathere is a preprint of their announcement?21:36
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +554 cases (now 1005430), +27 deaths (now 51596), +19 recoveries (now 210519) since data from 35 minutes ago — Afghanistan: +15 cases (now 273) since data from 35 minutes ago — Canada: +10 cases (now 11118) since data from 35 minutes ago21:39
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 19:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases near 1 million, Manhattan real estate grinds to a halt — from r/WorldNews at 19:38: Big Brother in the Age of Coronavirus: 100+ Groups Warn Against Exploiting Pandemic to Permanently Expand Surveillance State - "These are extraordinary times, but human rights law still applies." → https://is.gd/QugdiB21:52
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +950 cases (now 1006380), +50 deaths (now 51646), +36 recoveries (now 210555) since data from 20 minutes ago — US: +1073 cases (now 238823), +55 deaths (now 5768), +36 recoveries (now 10360) since data from 50 minutes ago — Illinois, US: +679 cases (now 7695), +11 deaths (now 157) since data from 50 minutes ago21:54
tang3nt_man[m]:-(21:58
tang3nt_man[m]👎️21:58
tang3nt_man[m]1 Million 👎️21:59
mefistofeleshttps://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1245382719242145794?s=2021:59
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 19:51 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 1 million, Manhattan real estate grinds to a halt — from r/WorldNews at 19:51: Big Brother in the Age of Coronavirus: 100+ Groups Warn Against Exploiting Pandemic to Permanently Expand Surveillance State - "These are extraordinary times, but human rights law still applies." → https://is.gd/QugdiB22:07
python4761M officially22:08
python47610M according to the riot leaders22:08
lf94lol22:09
CoronaBot/r/worldnews: Anger as Japanese Prime Minister offers two cloth masks per family while refusing to declare coronavirus emergency (11546 votes) | https://redd.it/ftodx122:12
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 20:06 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Global cases top 1 million, Americans may face relief check delays — from r/WorldNews at 20:06: Big Brother in the Age of Coronavirus: 100+ Groups Warn Against Exploiting Pandemic to Permanently Expand Surveillance State - "These are extraordinary times, but human rights law still applies." → https://is.gd/QugdiB22:21
tang3nt_man[m]!cases italy22:21
CovBotIn Italy there have been a total of 115,242 cases as of 2020-04-02 20:19:00 UTC. Of these 83,049 (72.1%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 18,278 (15.9%) have definitely recovered and 13,915 (12.1%) have died.22:21
electricprism[m]!cases united states22:24
CovBotIn United States there have been a total of 240,344 cases as of 2020-04-02 20:19:00 UTC. Of these 224,172 (93.3%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 10,365 (4.3%) have definitely recovered and 5,807 (2.4%) have died.22:24
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +1658 cases (now 1008038), +79 deaths (now 51725), +27 recoveries (now 210582) since data from 36 minutes ago — US: +1521 cases (now 240344), +39 deaths (now 5807), +5 recoveries (now 10365) since data from 36 minutes ago — Massachusetts, US: +1228 cases (now 8966), +32 deaths (now 154) since data from 36 minutes ago22:24
tang3nt_man[m]!cases spain22:28
CovBotIn Spain there have been a total of 110,238 cases as of 2020-04-02 20:19:00 UTC. Of these 73,399 (66.6%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 26,743 (24.3%) have definitely recovered and 10,096 (9.2%) have died.22:28
LjLPeople, use the not in PM please if you're just checking for yourselves22:29
tang3nt_man[m]I don't know how you do that?22:31
tang3nt_man[m]Cov Bot: !cases france22:32
Scarecr0wNo space on the name "CovBot"22:33
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 20:22 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump uses Defense Production Act to make ventilators: DNC confirms nominating convention postponed 6.65 million filed for US unemployment last week US facing hunger crisis as demand for food banks soars See all our coronavirus coverage [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/HG3MG822:36
MinceRprobably /msg CovBot !cases france22:37
MinceRpossibly without the !22:37
telliksem0h!cases california22:44
CovBotIn California, United States there have been a total of 10,018 cases as of 2020-04-02 20:34:00 UTC. Of these 9,803 (97.9%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 0 (0.0%) have definitely recovered and 215 (2.1%) have died.22:45
Timvde!cases world22:55
Timvde%cases world22:55
BrainstormTimvde: In all areas, World, there are 1008395 cases, 52624 deaths (5.2% of cases), 210598 recoveries as of 6 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 20.0% (considering only deaths and recoveries).22:55
CovBotIn World there have been a total of 1,008,228 cases as of 2020-04-02 20:34:00 UTC. Of these 745,025 (73.9%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 210,583 (20.9%) have definitely recovered and 52,620 (5.2%) have died.22:55
TimvdeThat was really slow, damn22:55
IronYnot sure why the number 1 million is large for people22:56
IronYthere are over 7 billion people on the planet22:56
LjLi'm not sure that's related to the reason why people consider a number large22:59
IronYI guess I just look at it as a percentage22:59
IronYand we are at but a drop in a bucket22:59
NokajiI million and global in 90 days, that's pretty impressive, it's ancestors would be proud23:00
LjLor another way it could be seen is it's as if a city the size of mine, which is considered large in italy, were all sick23:00
IronYI also live in a city of a million23:01
LjLor if an earthquake caused 50000 deaths, it would be talked about for quite a while, see 201123:01
IronYi would say '1 canadian city in the scope of every city in the world is not that much'23:01
LjLif the whole planet exploded it would likely be nothing compared to the set of all planets in the universe23:02
LjLi'm not sure this gets us anywhere23:02
IronYUr not leaving the universe any time soon :PP23:02
TimvdeI'm also not leaving my city any time soon though23:02
IronYI am surprised that 1million people is a large city in italy how ever23:02
IronYyou guys have more population and significantly less space23:03
IronYI figured it was millions per city23:03
TimvdeBut most of Italy is relatively high density23:03
TimvdeThere aren't thousands of square kilometers with barely any people living there like in the US23:03
IronYwe also like to cluster our cities in amalgamation in canada23:04
IronYfor example, 'The greater city of ottawa' 10 years ago was like 5 cities23:04
TimvdeBrussels (by itself, there's also the *Region* of Brussels) has < 200k inhabitants23:06
Timvde(The entire region has about 1.2m)23:06
TimvdeThe second largest city in Belgium is Antwerp with just over 500k people23:07
TimvdeBut we just have a lot of smaller cities (10-50k) close to each other23:08
TimvdeAnd even in between cities a lot of people live23:08
BrainstormNew bulletins for World: +1826 cases (now 1010054), +246 deaths (now 52866), +1295 recoveries (now 211878) since data from 34 minutes ago — Spain: +1656 cases (now 112065), +242 deaths (now 10348) since data from 34 minutes ago — Germany: +100 cases (now 84788), +3 deaths (now 1107), +1040 recoveries (now 22440) since data from 34 minutes ago23:08
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 20:55 UTC: Worldwide coronavirus cases reach 1 million, doubling in a week as death toll tops 50,000: The virus threatens to spread widely across Africa, where several countries have seen hundreds of positive tests, according to Johns Hopkins University. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Oil4GQ23:13
dunnpI was just able to get a 1 hour alcohol delivery but no food options still23:14
oribaLjL: follow up to our M$ topic some days ago: Microsoft-Software: Safe for Europe? (Full Documentary, 2018) -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duaYLW7LQvg23:15
euod[m]dunnp: yeah same in a way.23:17
oribaLjL: M$ & JHU and some other big players are very involed in the covid-19 issue... I'm sure it's not that just altruism...23:17
oriba...just read a (german) aticle about it... heavy stuff...23:18
oriba... good for activate puking.23:18
telliksem0h!cases california23:21
CovBotIn California, United States there have been a total of 10,018 cases as of 2020-04-02 21:04:00 UTC. Of these 9,803 (97.9%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 0 (0.0%) have definitely recovered and 215 (2.1%) have died.23:21
Scarecr0wdang, we hit 1mil cases worldwide, huh? That's not good lol23:23
IronYExponential growth is growing exponentially :D23:25
telliksem0hWhoah... really? There are 1 million confirmed cases worldwide now?23:26
IronYhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/coronavirus-vaccine-pittsburgh-university-lancet-study-covid-pandemic-a9442536.html?fbclid=IwAR0aksDiGIOEsf_ZtmcE55BnluCIcpRFBBIc7F2sAj6PLk_FVty64GVC3V423:26
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 21:15 UTC: Need for nurses is driving record pay as coronavirus nears its peak: States such as New York are urging health-care workers to come to their hospitals to respond to the coronavirus pandemic. Demand for nurses is so great, some are being offered more than $10,000 a week in crisis pay. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/pw4cVA23:28
IronY^ That bothers the fuck out of me23:28
IronYso so much23:28
IronYCall me selfish, but I do not think my country should be exporting nurses to a country who is 2 weeks ahead of the rate of spread we are at23:29
IronYI would go as far has saying that should be made instantly illegal23:29
IronY(I do how ever think we should also pay them heavily of course)23:29
bin_bashthen you should compete23:30
dunnpillegal to go work somewhere else?23:30
IronYdunnp: Illegal to export required resources, which in this situation, includes people23:30
IronYdunnp: it is illegal in some places to go outside, so its not a leap23:30
dunnpwhere do you see anything about nurses going to different countries?23:31
IronYdunnp: The facebook message my sister just sent me who is a nurse, asking if she wants to go to the states23:31
IronYthe message contains an email from her union23:31
dunnpoh... I thought you were talking about the article about NuWest23:32
dunnpfrom Canada?23:33
IronYdunnp: yeah23:33
IronYdunnp: we are already understaffed, I am not trying to be greedy or anything, I get they need them23:33
IronYbut we will need them very shortly as well, and they wont have any available to send us23:34
dunnpI mean they can go back to Canada if it gets bad there23:34
IronYif it was a month or two ago Id be all for it23:34
IronYbecause chances are, there gong to get sick23:35
IronY2 months ago, they could of went, helped , got sick, developed antibodies, came back, helped23:35
nixonixthe border might be closed soon23:36
IronYit is closed23:36
IronYto everyone but truckers and medical staff23:36
BobCatThe US has a lot of foreign doctors, it's way more %age than any other jobs23:37
BobCatMy doctor is Russian23:37
BobCathmm, where did she go to school...23:38
IronYwho my sister?23:38
IronYLaurentian U / Cambrian - Sudbury23:39
dunnphttps://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-professions-us-noncitizens/u-s-relies-heavily-on-foreign-born-healthcare-workers-idUSKBN1O32FR23:39
dunnpAbout 29 percent of physicians were born in other countries23:39
IronYyes but they currently reside in the US :P23:40
BobCat Astrakhan State Medical Academy23:41
BobCat^^ my doc23:42
IronYMost doctors in Canada are 'new' Canadians aswell23:42
BobCatIt's a lot easier to get a work visa with an advanced degree23:42
IronYdespite the constant cases of people being caught faking said degrees23:44
BobCatMy doc better be legit, she checked my prostate23:48
IronYi mean, it could of been a he23:48
BobCatThat's like fifth base.23:49
IronYoh god, if I dont make it through covid at least thats a plus23:49
IronYI am a few years away from prostate checks23:49
IronYthanks, now I am scared to survive to23:49
BobCatIf having a woman stick her finger in your ass scares you, consider it foreplay for a co0lonoscopy23:51
IronYI had a colonoscopy when i was like 1523:51
IronYI repressed it until just 5 mins ago23:51
IronYur on a roll23:51
IronY(I even got to watch the monitor while it was being done because for some reason that was suppose to make it better)?23:51
BobCatthey drug you now, like twilight sleep23:52
IronYwell I guess that is a silver lining lol23:52
nixonixwith rohypnol?23:53
IronYall the 3 girls in the Linux course I am teaching are struggling right now23:53
IronYI never even considered that outcome23:53
IronYthe class has like a 20:1 male to female ratio23:53
IronYso the ladies generally get QUITE a lot of peer support23:53
IronYfml, I am going to need to account for this23:53
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 21:39 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump uses Defense Production Act to make ventilators: DNC confirms nominating convention postponed 6.65 million filed for US unemployment last week US facing hunger crisis as demand for food banks soars See all our coronavirus coverage [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/HG3MG823:58
IronYLjL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkJELpndAOs interesting watch23:59
Scarecr0wIronY: Could I ask where you are giving the Linux course? As a student, I'm interested.23:59

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