| tinwhiskers | fabric face masks will work pretty well for stopping the spread from infected people. I think the the N95s should be used for medical staff | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| rager | scarves also work to slow the spread | 00:00 |
| rager | also, hi | 00:00 |
| Nokaji | plus, it would have stimulated a production frenzy instead of killing the market | 00:00 |
| Nokaji | https://youtu.be/bpQFCcSI0pU | 00:01 |
| Nokaji | I Found The Source of the Coronavirus | 00:01 |
| ubLIX | Nokaji: a single nurse get through a hundred masks per day? cmon | 00:01 |
| Nokaji | cmon what? | 00:01 |
| rager | even if they do, what of it? | 00:01 |
| ubLIX | that seems outlandish enough to require some substantiation | 00:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 21:59 UTC: ljl-covid: Add Fraunhofter for Europe — from r/WorldNews at 21:59: Nikki Haley accuses WHO of taking 'China's word' on coronavirus transmission → https://is.gd/EPgAbW | 00:02 |
| LjL | i can't spell one single thing right can i | 00:02 |
| Nokaji | then try to substiantiate it | 00:02 |
| rager | you made the claim | 00:02 |
| ubLIX | be my guest, Nokaji | 00:02 |
| Birrosso | Is there *anything* you get right? | 00:02 |
| tinwhiskers | I've heard in New York medical staff are getting ONE mask a day due to shortages | 00:02 |
| Nokaji | I said I heard (unverified) | 00:02 |
| LjL | Birrosso, possibly the statement that i never get anything right | 00:03 |
| ubLIX | smh | 00:03 |
| Birrosso | Well played. You win. | 00:03 |
| rager | it's not like more demand will induce more supply at this point | 00:03 |
| rager | there isn't enough supply for all the demand | 00:04 |
| LjL | Nokaji, that many masks may be necessary for one patient over the course of their disease doesn't surprise me at all. but one single nurse using 100 masks in one day for one patients? you either misread, or someone miswrote. or likely had CNS involvement. | 00:04 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 00:04 |
| Nokaji | in other nations, they are making hand made masks, so yes - it is stimulating supply | 00:04 |
| stinkpot | i agree with you Nokaji | 00:04 |
| stinkpot | i think lying to ppl for the sake of reserving masks for healthcare workers is extremely harmful | 00:05 |
| tinwhiskers | stinkpot: which aspect are you agreeing about? 100 masks a day? | 00:05 |
| tinwhiskers | ah. yes, I agree | 00:05 |
| stinkpot | furthermore, just the part about reserving masks for healthcare workers could even be harmful | 00:05 |
| LjL | i would say that latter part is sacrosanct. | 00:06 |
| ubLIX | that is 1 mask change every 7 minutes! | 00:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:01 UTC: American, Delta and others apply for relief grants — now comes the hard part: U.S. airline executives face a test to see which sacrifices they are willing to make in exchange for federal aid that would allow them to continue paying their employees during the coronavirus pandemic. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/KeEStM | 00:06 |
| tinwhiskers | the message from the outset should have been use fabric masks to help prevent the spread, and keep the N95s for the people who need them to keep us safe | 00:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1018 cases (now 1095802), +25 deaths (now 58810) since 18 minutes ago — US: +1003 cases (now 274987), +25 deaths (now 7065) since 18 minutes ago — Brazil: +795 cases (now 9056), +15 deaths (now 359) since an hour ago | 00:06 |
| ubLIX | *on a 12 hour shift | 00:06 |
| stinkpot | especially if healthcare workers haven't learned how to use PPE judiciously | 00:06 |
| stinkpot | what does sacrosanct mean in this case ljl | 00:06 |
| Nokaji | LjL: not for one patient but in the course of their day - it was explained and broken down but I didn't hear it all but imagine this .. a nurse inspects 20 patients on a ward and has to swop masks for each one, and visits them several times a day | 00:06 |
| rager | if it takes doing one mask change every seven minutes to prevent cross-contamination of patients for especially active nurses, perhaps that's worthwhile? | 00:06 |
| tinwhiskers | rager: we don't have enough for that though | 00:07 |
| LjL | even if you make some strange economy calculation that results in somehow the general population wearing masks being better than medical workers wearing masks, assuming you can magically cover the two groups with the same amount of masks, if *i* were a medical worker and subjected to such a decision, i would just quit. and mind you, doctors and nurses ARE quitting in various places over lack of PPEs. | 00:07 |
| ubLIX | doesn't leave much time for attending to patients | 00:07 |
| rager | right - they're not doing that in most places | 00:07 |
| rager | it sounds like | 00:07 |
| tinwhiskers | right | 00:07 |
| LjL | Nokaji, that just doesn't happen in practice under the current conditions. it can't. maybe it would if things were done "by the book" in normal times (and they often aren't anyway) | 00:07 |
| rager | seems like poor taste blaming those healthcare workers for using up the supply of ppe | 00:08 |
| tinwhiskers | rager++ | 00:08 |
| LjL | well i'm sure no one is doing that | 00:08 |
| rager | they're both protecting themselves and the other patients | 00:08 |
| rager | they're like... prime disease vectors | 00:08 |
| Nokaji | ppl are buying masks on the high street from split boxes, nobody is making economic calculations beyond everyday decisions plus doctors et al were aleady forbidden form wearing masks in case it frightened the horses | 00:09 |
| stinkpot | but some measures have to be taken so healthcare workers don't ravage their way through 100 masks a day | 00:10 |
| LjL | stinkpot, they just don't. | 00:10 |
| LjL | this is a non-problem. | 00:10 |
| bin_bash | someone bought an n95 disposable for like $500 on ebay lmfao | 00:10 |
| rager | you think healthcare workers aren't the best equipped to make healthcare decisions? | 00:10 |
| stinkpot | there has to be some happy medium between keeping healthcare workers from committing suicide or quitting on the spot and letting them go bonkers with their normal protocol of throwing away ppe every ten minutes (which anyone who has been in a hospital knows happens normally) | 00:10 |
| tinwhiskers | Seems like a good time for... DIY masks from old clothes (they seem like a good design; are well fitting and fairly stylish) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUasSmReIVo | 00:11 |
| Nokaji | LjL: current conditions is another matter - like I say 'unverified', I'm happy to see the real data for current and normal if anyone has it rather than be expected to defend something I've already said is unverified | 00:11 |
| rager | look | 00:11 |
| tinwhiskers | please get a fabric mask! | 00:11 |
| rager | you're taking hearsay that this happens | 00:11 |
| rager | and assuming every nurse at every hospital uses equipment at that rate | 00:11 |
| rager | that's bonkers | 00:11 |
| Scarecr0w | I sewed my own mask too, it's ultra simple. | 00:11 |
| stinkpot | however, i believe that people should be able to figure out how to make a face covering | 00:11 |
| Scarecr0w | Can't guarantee the filters though hahaha | 00:11 |
| tinwhiskers | Scarecr0w: nice | 00:11 |
| rager | that's going straight from "this might happen" to "oh shit, they're having mask bonfires" in no time flat | 00:11 |
| LjL | Nokaji, stinkpot: hearsay is damaging if it ends up indirectly accusing a category that's very important for each one of us now. | 00:12 |
| stinkpot | we can't accept any longer that the general population can be allowed to proclaim themselves total idiots and not even know how to use a piece of makeshift cloth or bandana as a face covering | 00:12 |
| rager | I made a few of the "makermask" respirators | 00:12 |
| stinkpot | i was just creating hypotheticals for the sake of argument | 00:12 |
| rager | I also own this arcane instrument they call the "scarf" | 00:12 |
| stinkpot | but i suppose hypotheticals themselves can become hearsay if nobody knows they're hypotheticals | 00:12 |
| Nokaji | LjL: it's better than hearsay else I wouldn't mention it | 00:13 |
| tinwhiskers | alas, I don't own a scarf, but I never go anywhere without my towel. | 00:13 |
| rager | I think healthcare workers are intensely aware of their burn rate on PPE | 00:13 |
| Nokaji | LjL: it's equally damaging to say it isn't the case, with no evidence | 00:13 |
| rager | because if they use a shitload of a limited good that is necessary to maintain healthcare during a worsening pandemic, they're just sacrificing tomorrow for today | 00:13 |
| rager | hospital administrators are far more intensely aware of this than you seem to imagine | 00:14 |
| LjL | Nokaji, 1) no, it isn't, and 2) i have hearsay, i will even claim it's better than hearsay, that doctors and nurses are often using the same PPEs throughout their turn neglecting their need to go to the bathroom | 00:14 |
| Nokaji | LjL: under current conditions, yes | 00:14 |
| rager | you can't put the suit back on if you take it off to piss | 00:14 |
| ubLIX | Nokaji: that number is simply implausible; changing your mask every 7 minutes would likely obliterate any risk reduction gained by wearing a mask | 00:14 |
| rager | in normal conditions, n95 masks are like jellybens | 00:14 |
| tinwhiskers | "under current conditions" is what we're dealing with! | 00:14 |
| LjL | well, at this time, and in this channel, i care about COVID-19 conditions | 00:14 |
| rager | so who cares if they treat them like jellybeans in normal conditions? | 00:15 |
| Nokaji | LjL: I don't write the regulations | 00:15 |
| LjL | if you mix up what happens in normal conditions, when there is NOT a shortage of what is usually cheap material, with what is happening now, well, that's not going to result in any sort of accurate picture. | 00:15 |
| LjL | Nokaji, which ones, the ones no one is following currently? | 00:15 |
| LjL | when did i even accuse you of writing the regulations? | 00:16 |
| Nokaji | LjL: unless you know of other regulations | 00:16 |
| LjL | yes, i do, look, i'll make a regulation on the spot | 00:16 |
| LjL | don't make this sort of allegation again without providing evidence | 00:16 |
| LjL | ↑ new regulation | 00:16 |
| rager | "talk shit, get hit" | 00:16 |
| Nokaji | I've made no allegations, I've simply relaid what has already been reported | 00:17 |
| Nokaji | relayed | 00:17 |
| rager | you're relaying allegations that are worse than unproductive, then | 00:17 |
| LjL | saying someone else told you isn't some kind of get out of jail free card | 00:17 |
| stinkpot | you're becoming more and more PC by the day ljl. i hope you're aware | 00:18 |
| ubLIX | how long does it take to remove and dispose of an N95 mask (in a bio-hazardous environment), followed by obtaining and putting on a new one? subtract this time from 7 minutes, then consider you have the remaining fraction of time to attend to clinical duties; you might have thought this out and decided not to repeat the idea | 00:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:08 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: CDC recommends non-medical face masks in White House briefing — from r/WorldNews at 22:08: A Cluster Of Coronavirus Cases Can Be Traced Back To A Single Mosque And Now 200 Million Muslims Are Being Vilified → https://is.gd/mjLxxn | 00:18 |
| stinkpot | i suppose it's totally understandable though | 00:18 |
| Nokaji | I don' need a get out of jail card | 00:18 |
| rager | lol, how do you make disease this political? | 00:18 |
| Nokaji | if that is what they do then that is what they do | 00:18 |
| LjL | stinkpot, if i'm politically correct then you will recognize that i am likely to consider a random ad hominem not acceptable | 00:19 |
| LjL | so that's one thing | 00:19 |
| Nokaji | test | 00:19 |
| Scarecr0w | COVID-19 for president, 2020. | 00:19 |
| LjL | Nokaji, test was successful, i had muted stinkpot, not you; however, "if that is what they do then that is what they do" is another thing that's not a get out of jail free card, because just saying "if" technically makes this a non-statement, but practically, you're STILL making an allegation | 00:20 |
| ubLIX | and Nokaji has already before now been censured for not sanity-checking estimations | 00:21 |
| tinwhiskers | ubLIX: ah, but your calculations are wrong. I've heard health workers are working 48 hours a day. | 00:23 |
| ubLIX | lol tinwhiskers | 00:24 |
| ubLIX | they probably are | 00:24 |
| LjL | https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/04/02/russian-mercy-mission-italy-front-intelligence-gathering-british/ ← personally as an Italian, i am happy with trading "intelligence" for medical aid at this time, so unless British experts also have evidence that they intend to hinder instead of aid us.. | 00:33 |
| jester | https://imgur.com/gallery/XhWxVSK | 00:41 |
| IronY | http://www.test.com | 00:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:44 UTC: Australia news: Coronavirus Australia live news: NSW Health defends handling of Ruby Princess as more cases confirmed – latest update [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/pYqOtr | 00:51 |
| IronY | http://www.test.com | 00:53 |
| Timvde | Talking about Russia, it seems that they're also nearing 1000 cases per day, and rising. Do they have any measures in place yet? | 00:54 |
| LjL | oh yeah? | 00:55 |
| LjL | i was stuck at "they officially have few cases, but nobody believes them" | 00:55 |
| LjL | %cases russia | 00:55 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Russia, there are 4149 cases, 34 deaths (0.8% of cases), 281 recoveries as of 7 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Russia for time series data. | 00:55 |
| Timvde | Almost a third of these are from the last two days | 00:56 |
| Timvde | It could be that they have a lot more cases, I really don't know | 00:57 |
| Timvde | Just wondering if they have measures in place yet | 00:57 |
| LjL | nyeah the curve doesn't look great | 00:57 |
| LjL | but i don't know | 00:57 |
| LjL | i'll google again for a map of lockdowns, didn't find one last time, but seems like a basic thing we should have in the resources | 00:58 |
| xrogaan | Some russian drink so much vodka that their breath becomes sanitizers. | 00:59 |
| xrogaan | You can't get sick if you sweat alcohol. | 01:00 |
| LjL | ... | 01:00 |
| xrogaan | It's a joke, c'mon. | 01:00 |
| LjL | try again after i've had more limoncello | 01:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet at 00:00 UTC: [World Report] Developing antibody tests for SARS-CoV-2: Laboratories and diagnostic companies are racing to produce antibody tests, a key part of the response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Anna Petherick reports. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ZN0Ed9 | 01:03 |
| oriba | LjL: how do you create your linklist? Markdown or what else? | 01:04 |
| LjL | yes, markdown | 01:04 |
| LjL | and it's on github, look at the link at the bottom if you missed that | 01:04 |
| oriba | ah ok. and how to creeate the sidebar with contents on the left side? | 01:04 |
| LjL | that's a mystery | 01:05 |
| oriba | hehe | 01:05 |
| LjL | which is to say, someone else runs the actual website for me | 01:05 |
| oriba | so some vodoo | 01:05 |
| LjL | the main advantage of that as i see it is that the stylesheet or whatever includes a table of contents | 01:05 |
| oriba | ah ok | 01:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1096 cases (now 1096898), +31 deaths (now 58841), +237 recoveries (now 228346) since an hour ago — Brazil: +933 cases (now 9194), +19 deaths (now 363) since 2 hours ago — US: +834 cases (now 275821), +23 deaths (now 7088), +224 recoveries (now 12268) since an hour ago | 01:06 |
| LjL | https://www.web24.news/u/2020/04/the-government-admits-that-turkey-has-retained-a-plane-with-respirators-that-were-from-spain.html https://www.web24.news/u/2020/04/the-government-admits-that-turkey-has-retained-a-plane-with-respirators-that-were-from-spain.html | 01:17 |
| LjL | more PPE theft on an international scale apparently | 01:17 |
| AimHere | We'll be fighting World War 3 over hand sanitizer at this rate | 01:18 |
| LjL | a fitting end for humanity | 01:19 |
| Jigsy | Now Mom's been furloughed from her job. | 01:20 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: have you seen these? https://www.gstatic.com/covid19/mobility/2020-03-29_IT_Mobility_Report_en.pdf | 01:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +1050 cases (now 276037), +320 deaths (now 7385), +224 recoveries (now 12268) since an hour ago — Brazil: +933 cases (now 9194), +19 deaths (now 363) since 3 hours ago — California, US: +779 cases (now 11986), +23 deaths (now 269) since 3 hours ago | 01:21 |
| Jo-Anna | I predict famine once the people without jobs run out of money to buy food | 01:22 |
| stinkpot | lol aimhere | 01:22 |
| stinkpot | sorry to hear that jigsy | 01:23 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, no, interesting | 01:23 |
| AimHere | Jo-Anna, a sane government gives them money to buy food and necessities during the lockdown | 01:23 |
| AimHere | Even if it's printing money, borrowing it or expropriating from the wealthy | 01:23 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, also i'm not in it because i don't use google services, but based on the attitudes i now hear on TV, i may as well expect that to become a felony in the future | 01:23 |
| PlanckWalk | My government doubled the unemployment payments | 01:24 |
| Jo-Anna | Not every government is sane and there are people in high places that want to reduce the population | 01:24 |
| AimHere | Well a government that tells the population to not work and doesn't offer a way for them to get food will probably find itself on the cutting edge of a bespoke population reduction problem | 01:24 |
| tinwhiskers | revolting | 01:25 |
| PlanckWalk | Also paid triple that amount for many businesses to keep their workers, whether they are actually doing anything or not. | 01:25 |
| PlanckWalk | We'll be paying this off for a decade, probably. Better than the alternatives, though. | 01:26 |
| stinkpot | aimhere : what did china do? | 01:26 |
| Jo-Anna | When the people are ready to riot the different groups will be directed to fight eachother rather than rebel I bet | 01:26 |
| stinkpot | did china get landlords to eat a month of reduced rent or something like that | 01:26 |
| stinkpot | i know they were handing out food in china | 01:26 |
| tinwhiskers | My only income is my rental income. If they do that to me then I starve instead. | 01:27 |
| LjL | they've been "handing out" food in India, for some meaning of "handing out" that involves patchily giving packs of rice and lentils and-but-mostly-or $33 to rent a room to random people | 01:27 |
| LjL | but that still means there's lots of people without foods and/or without a room after being evicted | 01:28 |
| PlanckWalk | We put a ban on evictions for nonpayment | 01:28 |
| LjL | i don't think that would work in India | 01:28 |
| LjL | they'd just get evicted anyway | 01:28 |
| PlanckWalk | I am sure you're right :( | 01:28 |
| tinwhiskers | PlanckWalk: wouldn't that just encourage people to stop paying? | 01:29 |
| stinkpot | i'm curious what china did because they've already had to deal with this fully | 01:29 |
| LjL | some people have reportedly died just trying to walk their way back from Delhi to wherever they actually live after the lockdown was announced (at 8pm, due to be effective at midnight) | 01:29 |
| LjL | maybe they just fainted and the "died" happened during chinese whispers, but still, not a great situation | 01:29 |
| PlanckWalk | tinwhiskers: I think the idea is that they still will owe the rent after this is all over. | 01:29 |
| tinwhiskers | ah | 01:29 |
| stinkpot | we really should have learned from china already. not just their medical response but their fiscal response | 01:29 |
| PlanckWalk | But as I said, the government is pouring tons of money into making sure most people can still cover expenses. | 01:30 |
| jester | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQFCcSI0pU&feature=youtu.be | 01:30 |
| Jo-Anna | Who owns the property in China ? Maybe government owns all the housing so rent is no problem | 01:31 |
| PlanckWalk | One of our current arguments is who ends up carrying to loss of commercial rents. | 01:31 |
| PlanckWalk | carrying the* loss | 01:31 |
| LjL | jester, this is an example of what i was saying earlier that just dumping links may leave people perplexed, whether or not there's a bot auto-titling them | 01:32 |
| stinkpot | jo-anna people own property but the gov basically owns everything and can repossess it at anytime | 01:33 |
| Jo-Anna | stinkpot: probably but the people who think they own it get the expenses and before this revenue from rent | 01:34 |
| jester | untill they watch it whats to say | 01:34 |
| PlanckWalk | I always assume that a dumped link is spam | 01:34 |
| PlanckWalk | Or a rickroll. | 01:35 |
| stinkpot | right Jo-Anna | 01:36 |
| PlanckWalk | Or some nutjob crackpot theory | 01:36 |
| LjL | PlanckWalk, well, it seems to be neither, and i kind of have a sort of "duty" to check anyway... but it's still... just... there. | 01:36 |
| stinkpot | PlanckWalk: are mortgage reits a good investment now? | 01:37 |
| PlanckWalk | No idea! | 01:37 |
| stinkpot | i thought you'd know! | 01:37 |
| LjL | https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/04/03/826817866/take-this-serious-bus-driver-dies-of-covid-19-after-calling-out-coughing-rider ← speaking of random links, this reads all sorts of messed up, but the first thing that comes to mind to me isn't "that person who coughed is a moron", but "why is that place not on lockdown yet? why is public transport still operating?" | 01:37 |
| stinkpot | this is why we need face coverings for everyone ljl | 01:37 |
| LjL | but at least while we don't have them, we need real lockdowns | 01:37 |
| stinkpot | sad story | 01:37 |
| LjL | and before, not after, the thing has already boomed exponentially | 01:38 |
| stinkpot | real? like with military guys standing outside? | 01:38 |
| LjL | at the very least real the way it's real in Italy now | 01:38 |
| LjL | not the way it was real in Italy two weeks ago | 01:38 |
| stinkpot | young, nervous looking 20-something military guys | 01:38 |
| LjL | and even now, public transport is *still* going | 01:38 |
| LjL | shut it down for heavens' sake | 01:38 |
| stinkpot | wtf | 01:38 |
| LjL | organize shuttle buses for essential workers, and them alone | 01:39 |
| stinkpot | how the hell is public transport still running when the streets are empty | 01:39 |
| LjL | ... smoother? | 01:39 |
| stinkpot | oh right those workers need to get to work | 01:39 |
| LjL | like i saw about five or six trams in the 15 minutes i was out | 01:39 |
| LjL | most of them are empty, so probably not a huge health issue. but it was a health issue, and a *ridiculous* one that could have been avoided with some simple forethought, when in order to "sanitize" trains and buses, since they couldn't do it for enough of them, they halved their number | 01:40 |
| LjL | that was when the lockdown was still very soft, and everyone was still going to work. it predictably resulted in MORE crowded trains and buses | 01:40 |
| LjL | especially commuter trains | 01:40 |
| LjL | these things really need to be done quickly but without forgetting to fire a couple of neurons together | 01:40 |
| stinkpot | gosh, this wasn't very well thought out | 01:41 |
| LjL | either public transport works in full service, even though now that means most of the trams and buses are empty (a bit ridiculous on the economics side, apart from the COVID danger), or you shut it down. middle grounds are dumb. | 01:41 |
| Jo-Anna | LjL: what country are you in? | 01:41 |
| LjL | Italy | 01:41 |
| Jo-Anna | Oh | 01:42 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1206 cases (now 1098444), +15 deaths (now 59159), +19 recoveries (now 228370) since 34 minutes ago — California, US: +1060 cases (now 12267), +29 deaths (now 275) since 3 hours ago — Brazil: +933 cases (now 9194), +19 deaths (now 363) since 3 hours ago | 01:51 |
| BruntLIVE | "Somehow sitting in the Oval Office, behind that beautiful Resolute Desk," Trump said, indicating he thought it would be uncomfortable wearing a mask as he met with "presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens – I don’t know, somehow I don’t see it for myself." https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/03/coronavirus-trump-wont-wear-mask-because-foreign-leader-meetings/2945378001/ | 02:02 |
| LjL | i welcome these news | 02:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 00:00 UTC: ljl-covid: Add Google Mobility creepiness — from r/WorldNews at 00:00: 'Take This Serious': Bus Driver Dies Of COVID-19 After Calling Out Coughing Rider → https://is.gd/BE31wX | 02:05 |
| suaefar[m] | Prediction for the next 24h | 02:05 |
| LjL | suaefar[m], are you keeping any record of how accurate they turn out to be | 02:06 |
| suaefar[m] | Not systematically, but all the old versions are archived on GitHub: https://github.com/suaefar/covid-19-deceased-prediction | 02:08 |
| suaefar[m] | Often they are quiet accurate (within +-10%). If not, often something noteworthy happend (e.g., France added 890 additional death for the days before yesterday) | 02:11 |
| suaefar[m] | Its just my tool to see if the reported numbers are really "news" or if its just what one would expect. | 02:12 |
| LjL | suaefar[m], some of the earliest ones looked (just subjectively to my eye) very easily biasable by one single data point, often the last one, at least in the polynomial fitting | 02:18 |
| LjL | i suspect when the data is a bit jittery they quickly fail to work great | 02:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:18 UTC: American, Delta and others apply for relief grants — now comes the hard part: U.S. airline executives face a test to see which sacrifices they are willing to make in exchange for federal aid that would allow them to continue paying their employees during the coronavirus pandemic. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/KeEStM | 02:22 |
| LjL | maybe start producing... uhm... flying... ventilators? | 02:23 |
| BruntLIVE | https://youtu.be/WxyH1rkuLaw | 02:24 |
| mefistofeles | %title | 02:24 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From youtu.be: NYC FRONT LINES DOCTOR EXPLAINS HOW EASY IT IS TO NOT GET INFECTED AND STOP THE SPREAD OF COVID-19 - YouTube | 02:24 |
| suaefar[m] | <LjL "suaefar, some of the earliest on"> The very early ones were fitted a bit differently | 02:27 |
| suaefar[m] | <LjL "i suspect when the data is a bit"> Of course, like all models it depends on valid data. Basically, the average slope and curvature over the last 11 days where all days count equally is determined and then the coefficients are used to extrapolate. Two parameters are fittest with 11 data points, that should be quiet robust. Its as easy as: take todays value, add the slope (positive) and add the curvature (positive | 02:31 |
| suaefar[m] | or negative). | 02:31 |
| dunnp | just fiting a polynomial? | 02:33 |
| mefistofeles | BruntLIVE: to be honest, that doesn't add up, so many cases if almost the exclusive way is physical contact with infected people? | 02:33 |
| suaefar[m] | I havent seen other comprehensible predictions | 02:33 |
| suaefar[m] | <dunnp "just fiting a polynomial?"> Yes, to the semi-log plot | 02:33 |
| dunnp | https://neherlab.org/covid19/ | 02:33 |
| dunnp | %title | 02:34 |
| Brainstorm | dunnp: From neherlab.org: COVID-19 Scenarios | 02:34 |
| LjL | suaefar[m], well it's true that all models depend on valid data but as you mention robustness may vary. it was just something i noticed in the first couple i saw | 02:34 |
| dunnp | US is recommending masks or some face covering now | 02:34 |
| suaefar[m] | <LjL "suaefar, well it's true that all"> Yes, often when the dynamic changes a few points are off until the dynamic is predicted by the model | 02:34 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: fitting polynomials is not a good way | 02:36 |
| suaefar[m] | <dunnp "https://neherlab.org/covid19/"> Wow, that thing has many parameters... how will one ever determine these? | 02:36 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "suaefar: fitting polynomials is "> What is a good way then? | 02:36 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, you can fit anything with polynomials, but the predictive power is bad | 02:36 |
| dunnp | suaefar[m]: data | 02:36 |
| mefistofeles | the common good way epidemiologist are using is the usual SIR model. Actually, modified versions of it, fwiw. | 02:36 |
| mefistofeles | so SIER is a common choice | 02:37 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "I mean, you can fit anything wit"> Then you have to define a method to quantify predictive power | 02:37 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "the common good way epidemiologi"> Nobody tells me the number of dead people by the end of the next day, tho | 02:37 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: that's easy, you can just check how the polynomial for China or Korea, doesn't fit Italy or US or SPain, for example | 02:37 |
| linext | these are the covid cases in the county where i live: https://www.insidernj.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/92125762_2917613431620675_4197302625906982912_o.jpg | 02:37 |
| mefistofeles | so that makes it a bad model | 02:37 |
| dunnp | yea the one I pasted was SIER | 02:38 |
| LjL | i think it's good that people make their own models with the tools they have available. it's not like suaefar[m] is trying to act like a fortune teller, he's doing something simple and transparent. i'm sure there are better ways, unsure there are any that i will understand | 02:38 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: sure, but we are not interested in the number of deaths for next day | 02:38 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "suaefar: that's easy, you can ju"> I dont use the data fom china to predict italy, I only use the past data of italy to predict the expected values the next days | 02:38 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: since that can be easily fitted, either with polynomials or exponentials or logit or even lines, tbh | 02:38 |
| mefistofeles | straight lines | 02:39 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "suaefar: sure, but we are not in"> Ah, ok. I am, because thats the biggest number in the news | 02:39 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: yeah, but that doesn't say anything useful about the state of the situation | 02:39 |
| mefistofeles | what people really want to predict is when the curve is going to slowdown and include parameters for the social distancing measures and their effects | 02:40 |
| dunnp | wow Michigan passed california for cases - detroit might be the next NYC | 02:40 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "suaefar: yeah, but that doesn't "> It does, in my opionion its the only data that does tell you anything. But maybe I have a different concept | 02:40 |
| mefistofeles | and of course, these ones also get a very good prediction of cases for each day, but that's secondary | 02:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:26 UTC: Australia news: Coronavirus Australia live news: visa rules changed to help secure food supply – latest update — from r/WorldNews at 00:26: Covid-19’s death toll appears higher than official figures suggest → https://is.gd/pYqOtr | 02:41 |
| dunnp | New Orleans is looking bad too | 02:41 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "and of course, these ones also g"> Probably, but I havent seen these numbers anywhere? | 02:41 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: the thing is that you are fitting a polynomial with wrong data, since we already know that the published data is very underreported, and it has many variables, specially the testing rate, which can vary a lot all of a sudden, for example when reactives are on shortage | 02:42 |
| dunnp | the matrix quoting this is really messy | 02:42 |
| dunnp | thing* | 02:42 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: so, in that scenario that model only works if testing doesn't vary much, and that makes it a weak model again | 02:43 |
| mefistofeles | because the SIR based ones don't suffer from that | 02:43 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "suaefar: so, in that scenario th"> I don't fit the number of infected people, only the number of the deceased which is probably much more reliable | 02:44 |
| mefistofeles | and the numbers are there, most of us have seen how UK claim 100k or 200k numbers depending on how social distancing is obeyed and such | 02:44 |
| mefistofeles | the Imperial College has models for dozens of countries already published | 02:45 |
| LjL | dunnp, yeah, there have been many complaints about the way the bridge handles quoting AFAIK, but... | 02:45 |
| suaefar[m] | I dont trust the testing numbers | 02:45 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "the Imperial College has models "> Nobody can tell me how many death are expected tomorrow in the news, e.g., Spain, or the US | 02:46 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: you want to see numbers of prediction of deaths, but that doesn't tell us anything and that's why people are not showing them, because you can get those easily just by fitting any non-linear model you can imagine | 02:46 |
| LjL | let him who hath never fitted a polynomial cast he first stone | 02:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 00:29 UTC: worldnews: Coronavirus pandemic could lead to biggest carbon emissions drop since World War II → https://is.gd/TpRsNw | 02:47 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: may I ask, are you fitting the model every day when new data comes up? right? | 02:48 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "suaefar: you want to see numbers"> I don't know. Everybody is looking at the new number every day. I like to have a number in my head in advance to compare it. | 02:48 |
| suaefar[m] | Prediction for tomorrow: US between 1200 and 1300 new deceased | 02:48 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: what about predictions for next month? | 02:49 |
| LjL | i could probably predict that by eyeballing it. but i really don't see anything wrong with running some code to fit a polynomial on it. | 02:49 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: even, what about predictions for next week? | 02:49 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "suaefar: what about predictions "> Nobody knows, because it depends on too many variables | 02:49 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: I'm not saying there's harm in doing that, but I just don't want him to be confused by it | 02:50 |
| suaefar[m] | <suaefar[m] "Nobody knows, because it depends"> More than today and less than the whole population ^^ | 02:50 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: well, but I can guarantee that your polynomial fit will be less accurate than the SIER model I talked about | 02:50 |
| mefistofeles | and that's the point | 02:51 |
| mefistofeles | this is called predictive power (sometimes) in statistical modelling | 02:51 |
| mefistofeles | the polynomial fit has a really low predictive power | 02:51 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "and that's the point"> Challenge accepted: Give me the numbers for tomorrow and we will compare | 02:51 |
| mefistofeles | because it can only predict so far (one or two days ahead), that is one or two points ahead out of dozens or hundreds already behind, and the more data you have the less predictive power it has | 02:52 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "this is called predictive power "> Yes, and we can use the mean squared prediction error to quantify it. So just need your data for tomorrow and then we will see | 02:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:44 UTC: Australia news: Coronavirus Australia live news: NSW health minister defends senior staff over Ruby Princess decision – latest update — from r/WorldNews at 00:44: Covid-19’s death toll appears higher than official figures suggest → https://is.gd/pYqOtr | 02:53 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: no, that's not a good descriptor of the error in this case | 02:53 |
| mefistofeles | because the function is not really concave | 02:53 |
| mefistofeles | and the irreducible error also varies with time, so it gets very tricky | 02:54 |
| mefistofeles | but anyways, just wanted to let you know | 02:54 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "because the function is not real"> I don't see why this would be a problem. We just have to agree on a pseudo-metric to measure the distance from the true values. | 02:55 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: as LjL said, you can eyeball it and get a good prediction for tomorrow, that still doesn't show you have a good predictive power, just that you were kinda lucky | 02:55 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: to be honest, you don't even need a polynomial a straight line could do it in a log scale | 02:56 |
| suaefar[m] | <mefistofeles "suaefar: to be honest, you don't"> Hm, did you look at the scale of my plot? | 02:57 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: no, sorry, I arrived later, link please | 02:57 |
| suaefar[m] | https://github.com/suaefar/covid-19-deceased-prediction | 02:57 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: you didn't answer if you were fitting the model every day wit the new data | 02:58 |
| suaefar[m] | Yes, I update it once a day (manually) | 02:58 |
| mefistofeles | ok | 03:00 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: what's the deree of the polynomial? | 03:02 |
| mefistofeles | degree* | 03:02 |
| suaefar[m] | 2 | 03:02 |
| suaefar[m] | Just slope and curvature | 03:03 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: why 11 days in the past? | 03:06 |
| suaefar[m] | No special reason, seemed to be a good compromise to average out some fluctuations without depending on too old data | 03:09 |
| suaefar[m] | In this way one can see if there was a trend over the course of the last 1-2 weeks (round((7+14)/2)=11, but its coincidence). Basically I am waiting for the trend in Spain to confirm... | 03:12 |
| suaefar[m] | I have to leave now. Its late in Europe. Good night and stay healty! | 03:13 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: take care | 03:19 |
| mefistofeles | suaefar[m]: btw, where do you get this "importdata" function and the "data.txt" file from? | 03:24 |
| EricGrahamMacEac | https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2020/04/01/coronavirus-kills-1-000-single-day-u-s-double-flu/5100905002/ | 04:21 |
| jester | seedking and moonshine | 04:32 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: US blocks medical aid to Cuba in show of ‘wild west brutality’ (10986 votes) | https://redd.it/fuj7fc | 04:39 |
| spybert | Keep in mind that most US voters did not vote for Trump. | 04:50 |
| Raf[m] | what does voting for trump have to do with anything? | 04:55 |
| LjL | probably referring to the bot's link... | 04:56 |
| LjL | https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-unpublished-preprint-on-loss-of-smell-and-taste-as-symptoms-of-covid-19/ | 05:10 |
| LjL | doesn't sound like researchers are going "big deal, it happens with any cold-like infection" on this | 05:11 |
| IronY | it just says 'better safe than sorry, not a verified, control group (people who came back uninfected) also said they suffered said symptoms at a rate of 18% | 05:11 |
| IronY | then again the same page has a link to https://www.ibtimes.sg/hantavirus-surges-amid-covid-19-people-china-are-now-dying-because-this-virus-41625?utm_source=Internal&utm_medium=article&utm_campaign=related | 05:13 |
| stinkpot | loss of smell is one of the most common symptoms with the 'common cold' and you know that ljl | 05:13 |
| IronY | so we have a whole new virus to worry about | 05:13 |
| IronY | :P | 05:13 |
| LjL | it also quotes "When combined with other symptoms, people with loss of smell and taste appear to be 3 times more likely to have contracted COVID-19 according to our data" which would mean that however high 18% is, it's higher with COVID, and then goes on to say that yes, this means self-isolation is warranted | 05:13 |
| stinkpot | the only thing that's different here is that perhaps it's loss of smell without the sore throat and sinus infection | 05:13 |
| LjL | stinkpot, actually no i don't, i've had many common colds, as i guess anybody, and i've never lost my sense of smell | 05:14 |
| stinkpot | but most people know it's in the literature | 05:14 |
| IronY | LjL: that is a common symptom when i get a cold/flu | 05:14 |
| LjL | finding it harder to smell things because your nose is clogged isn't quite the same thing | 05:14 |
| IronY | I guess the tldr is, if u think ur sick, regardless of the symptom, please stay home | 05:14 |
| LjL | also | 05:14 |
| LjL | the wikipedia article about "common cold" never mentions "loss of smell" or "anosmia" except in connection with taking zinc | 05:15 |
| stinkpot | i remember reading some classic literary works and seeing being mentioned several times a loss of smell | 05:15 |
| LjL | perhaps the article should be amended to include one of the most common symptoms of the disease it's describing | 05:15 |
| IronY | I am just speaking from my experience with the common cold (which is a combination of a few things, a corona virus, maybe a rhinovirus) | 05:16 |
| LjL | it's not a combination... it's usually *one* of those viruses at a time | 05:16 |
| IronY | sorry, a combination as it could be a few things | 05:16 |
| IronY | not both or many at the same time | 05:16 |
| tinwhiskers | stinkpot: I have also had many colds and several flus and I've never lost my sense or smell or knew it was in the literature. | 05:16 |
| stinkpot | anyone who has studied eastern medicine should be able to confirm that it's all those works as well | 05:16 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i'd find it surprising if it really was one of the most common symptoms and somehow didn't manage to be listed as such in the list of symptoms on wikipedia | 05:17 |
| IronY | https://www.medicinenet.com/loss_of_taste_sensation/symptoms.htm | 05:17 |
| stinkpot | tinwhiskers: that's almost unfathomable coming from you | 05:17 |
| tinwhiskers | The assumption that everyone knows this is unlikely | 05:17 |
| stinkpot | .... | 05:17 |
| IronY | fun fact, maybe its not the cold making u lose taste, maybe its the cold medication | 05:17 |
| stinkpot | okay, every family doctor i bet knows this | 05:17 |
| LjL | what that page says is "Sometimes, having a cold, sinus infection, strep throat, or upper respiratory infection can result in a decrease in taste sensation." | 05:18 |
| tinwhiskers | quite possibly, but every family doctor is quite a different matter to everyone | 05:18 |
| LjL | this is not anosmia | 05:18 |
| LjL | not even close | 05:18 |
| bin_bash | i've never completely lost my sense of smell or taste, but i've definitely had it severely altered | 05:18 |
| LjL | stinkpot, how about you show papers stating this instead of using argument ad everybodyknowium | 05:18 |
| stinkpot | ljl: symptoms vary from complete loss of smell to reduction of sense of smell | 05:18 |
| IronY | LjL: at the end of the day your trusting patients to describe their symptoms and a sense of smell and taste is variable between people | 05:18 |
| IronY | example, as a smoker, I have an already diminished sense of smell and taste | 05:19 |
| LjL | well you're making a lot of conclusions that aren't in those expert statements. what *is* there is the finding that anosmia predicts COVID much better than it predicts other viral respiratory illnesses. that is spelled out very clearly | 05:19 |
| stinkpot | anecdotally i have witnessed loss of smell without a sinus infection or sinus clogging | 05:19 |
| LjL | if you want to override it with "everybody knows one of the most common symptoms of cold is anosmia", feel free, but i'll feel free to ignore it | 05:20 |
| stinkpot | not complete loss but it would take something very strong for me to smell | 05:20 |
| IronY | expect statement? the site u posted, originally posted mins before, also links to a site saying there is another outbreak happening | 05:20 |
| stinkpot | like....vinegar | 05:20 |
| IronY | expert* | 05:20 |
| LjL | what i quoted was from the study | 05:20 |
| IronY | a direct quote | 05:21 |
| IronY | “A very recent review of the literature by my group found no proper studies on this topic (https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/what-is-the-evidence-for-anosmia-loss-of-smell-as-a-clinical-feature-of-covid-19/), so this is a novel finding. | 05:21 |
| stinkpot | anosmia is hard to diagnose. there isn't a good test for it from what i know. smell tests are something i've never heard of and it would be hard to make a legit smell sensitivity test and also to establish a baseline | 05:22 |
| IronY | "The current state of evidence around changes in olfactory sensation being a clinical feature is highly preliminary and largely based around non peer-reviewed emerging anecdotal clinical information." | 05:23 |
| IronY | From the actual study link ^ | 05:23 |
| stinkpot | besides anosmia from what i've read so far is defined as a 'partial or complete loss of smell' | 05:23 |
| stinkpot | show one medical device that purports to establish olfactory sensitivity | 05:24 |
| IronY | if I punch 10 people in the face, all with equal force, all in the same place, then ask them on a sake from 1 to 10 their pain registered, most will give different answers | 05:24 |
| IronY | some things are subjective | 05:24 |
| stinkpot | that purports to measure and establish a baseline for olfactory sensitivity | 05:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:17 UTC: Australia news: Coronavirus Australia live news: Australia death toll rises to 30 as NSW health minister under fire for handling of Ruby Princess – latest updates — from r/WorldNews at 03:17: Queen’s address to set calm tone ahead of COVID-19 storm, says royal expert → https://is.gd/pYqOtr | 05:27 |
| stinkpot | i don't see any standardized testing procedures for determining olfactory sensitivity so far on the internet | 05:28 |
| euod[m] | I doubt there is one | 05:29 |
| stinkpot | what i see are a bunch of studies that use custom setups to measure olfactory sensitivity. in other words, not standardized | 05:29 |
| euod[m] | working out how people actually feel versus what they are saying is like, half of medicine | 05:29 |
| IronY | and the reason even when I say 11/10 they still dont give me pain killers :P | 05:29 |
| euod[m] | that too, people love lying to medical staff about literally everything | 05:30 |
| euod[m] | have you been drinking? never in 10 years! well this medication will kill you if you are lying. oh like two bottles of whisky a day sir | 05:31 |
| stinkpot | well, we all know describing smell sensitivity is hard. a lot of things seem to affect it, like what we've eaten last, or what toothpaste we just used, or what cleaning product was just sprayed, or what deodorant the dude next to you has on | 05:31 |
| IronY | like when I clean glass with ammonia | 05:32 |
| stinkpot | lol | 05:32 |
| IronY | then get mad because I suspect my cat peed | 05:32 |
| euod[m] | sure, but the nocebo effect is strong, and lots of people are overly or underly concerned | 05:32 |
| euod[m] | if you think you’re sick you could literally lose your smell for absolutely no reason. nocebo effect! | 05:33 |
| stinkpot | some days i wake up and definitely feel like i'm not smelling well | 05:34 |
| stinkpot | i'm absolutely certain it has a lot to do with how hydrated you are and how much bacterial growth is on your tongue at the moment | 05:34 |
| euod[m] | it’s just hard. doctors ask me lots of subjective things, and unfortunately I’ve read the underlying research about them I tend towards giving the “correct” answer no matter what | 05:34 |
| stinkpot | well my point is that it's a lot harder for several reasons than measure visual acuity | 05:35 |
| euod[m] | tup | 05:35 |
| euod[m] | yup | 05:35 |
| IronY | agreed | 05:36 |
| stinkpot | yes it is definitely a more subjective sort of test that brings in human psychology to the foreground instead of the background | 05:36 |
| stinkpot | and just anecdotally i feel like my sense of smell varies from day to day far more than my visual acuity | 05:36 |
| IronY | sYN4P515: | 05:41 |
| sYN4P515 | sup | 05:41 |
| IronY | canada csv added some feilds, and the new number today feild shifted to the right once | 05:41 |
| IronY | NB: { | 05:41 |
| IronY | confirmed: 95, | 05:42 |
| IronY | probable: 0, | 05:42 |
| IronY | dead: 0, | 05:42 |
| IronY | today: 4, | 05:42 |
| IronY | total: 95, | 05:42 |
| IronY | tested: 3136, | 05:42 |
| IronY | percentToday: '0.044', | 05:42 |
| IronY | date: [Moment], | 05:42 |
| IronY | caseFatality: 0 | 05:42 |
| IronY | } | 05:42 |
| IronY | they added testedToday and percentTotal | 05:42 |
| sYN4P515 | !corona ontario | 05:42 |
| CoronaBot | Ontario: Confirmed cases: 3,255, probable cases: 0, cases today: 0, fatalities: 67. | 05:42 |
| sYN4P515 | oh yeah they did a while back i think | 05:42 |
| sYN4P515 | like 4-5 days ago | 05:42 |
| IronY | there were more then 0 cases today | 05:42 |
| IronY | that should look like this | 05:43 |
| IronY | confirmed: 3255, | 05:43 |
| IronY | probable: 0, | 05:43 |
| IronY | dead: 67, | 05:43 |
| IronY | today: 462, | 05:43 |
| IronY | total: 3255, | 05:43 |
| IronY | tested: 67998, | 05:43 |
| IronY | percentToday: '0.165', | 05:43 |
| IronY | date: [Moment], | 05:43 |
| IronY | caseFatality: 2.058371735791091 | 05:43 |
| sYN4P515 | hmm in the csv today column is empty | 05:44 |
| sYN4P515 | as well as percenttoday | 05:45 |
| sYN4P515 | i'll add number of tested, thx for the tip | 05:45 |
| metreo | !corona world | 05:45 |
| CoronaBot | Total cases: 1,098,762 (+1,512), deaths: 59,172 (+62), recovered: 228,923. Active cases: 810,667, 771,276 are in a mild condition, 39,391 are in a serious condition. Mortality: 5.39%, case fatality rate: 20.54%. Case rate: 82,929/24h, death rate: 5,973/24h. Last update: 3m ago. | 05:45 |
| IronY | 35,Ontario,Ontario,03-04-2020,3255,0,67,3255,67998,462,0.165 | 05:45 |
| IronY | it is not 0 | 05:45 |
| IronY | it is 67 | 05:46 |
| sYN4P515 | i downloaded the csv from site just now, those two columns are empty | 05:46 |
| IronY | i just pasted to u from the csv I just downloaded | 05:46 |
| IronY | I also live in ontario :P | 05:46 |
| wser | IronY: bad nettiquette | 05:46 |
| wser | post 3 lines only | 05:46 |
| sYN4P515 | IronY which url ? | 05:47 |
| sYN4P515 | https://health-infobase.canada.ca/src/data/covidLive/covid19.csv | 05:47 |
| IronY | const csvEndPoint = 'https://health-infobase.canada.ca/src/data/covidLive/covid19.csv'; | 05:47 |
| sYN4P515 | i'm the only one seeing empty columns? | 05:47 |
| IronY | I guess because there website also says 67 :P | 05:47 |
| wser | whats the point | 05:48 |
| sYN4P515 | 35,Ontario,Ontario,03-04-2020,3255,0,67,3255,67998,, | 05:49 |
| sYN4P515 | that's what i'm seeing | 05:49 |
| sYN4P515 | but i do agree that 0 is not the same as null, should make those fields nullable in the model in case they screw up again | 05:50 |
| metreo | Do we have a sense of how accurate the recovered numbers are? | 05:55 |
| metreo | Are they very likely to under report the actual numbers of people completely recovered at this time? | 05:55 |
| wser | yes conspiracyland | 05:56 |
| dunnp | also didn't realize that anosmia could happen from common colds | 06:04 |
| dunnp | never had that happen myself | 06:04 |
| wser | there is no 'we' btw | 06:05 |
| dunnp | wser: we? | 06:06 |
| PlanckWalk | Recovery numbers are probably even less reliable than confirmed case numbers (which is itself very poor) | 06:06 |
| wser | modern 'news' feels they can use the word 'we' to speak for everyone | 06:08 |
| dunnp | are they not more than one person? | 06:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:10 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China mourns those killed by pandemic, Tesla dismissing contractors — from r/WorldNews at 04:10: China mourns thousands who died in country's coronavirus epidemic → https://is.gd/cdi8dt | 06:16 |
| IronY | metreo: My province is basically saying 14 days and ur recovered, no follow up tests required | 06:20 |
| IronY | so, not very accurate | 06:20 |
| IronY | Of course my province gave its dire and grim projections today | 06:20 |
| IronY | which worked out to be | 06:20 |
| IronY | 14.57 million people at 15k deaths = 0.102% of the population without mitigation | 06:20 |
| IronY | 14.57 million people at 100k deaths = 0.683% of the population without mitigation | 06:20 |
| IronY | the 15k is upper bounds with mitigation* | 06:21 |
| IronY | they estimated lower bounds at 3k | 06:21 |
| nameo0 | !covid19 usa, los angeles | 06:21 |
| euod[m] | ontario right? | 06:22 |
| euod[m] | they sort of released their rules for treating patients | 06:22 |
| euod[m] | if the hospitals are at 200% capacity they will deny treatment to anybody with a less than 70% chance of survival, and upwards from there | 06:23 |
| euod[m] | people on ventilators have something like a 20-50% chance of survival depending where you read | 06:24 |
| IronY | 0.102% is not a scary enough number | 06:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 04:28 UTC: /u/slakmehl: In an attempted coup, the United States President has named a White House aide as the authority over the $500 billion coronavirus aide package, and removed the Intelligence Community Inspector General who reported the Ukraine whistleblower complaint. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/oFQrom | 06:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:33 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China mourns those killed by pandemic, Tesla dismissing contractors — from r/WorldNews at 04:33: France to "Temporarily" Nationalize Companies Over COVID-19 → https://is.gd/cdi8dt | 06:35 |
| yuriwho | hey folks | 06:39 |
| IronY | Some guy who broke my sleeping schedule for 3 days | 06:39 |
| IronY | sup* | 06:39 |
| yuriwho | lol | 06:39 |
| IronY | :P | 06:39 |
| yuriwho | what a day | 06:40 |
| IronY | How do you feel about this 0.102% | 06:40 |
| yuriwho | underestimates the problem | 06:40 |
| IronY | my thoughts exactly | 06:40 |
| yuriwho | thats enough to scare a politician but it's a gross underestimate | 06:41 |
| IronY | They were using dire and sobering | 06:41 |
| IronY | I was expecting a number like 10 to 100x larger | 06:41 |
| IronY | less then a percent, less then 98% of a 1% | 06:41 |
| PlanckWalk | What ratio is that 0.1%? | 06:41 |
| yuriwho | dead | 06:41 |
| IronY | PlanckWalk: Ontario Canadas Upper bound projections on deaths with mitigation | 06:42 |
| IronY | hell, our upper bounds WITHOUT mitigation is 1% | 06:42 |
| PlanckWalk | Without is probably more like 5% | 06:42 |
| IronY | 15k deaths on 14.59 million is there higher end with 3k is there lower end with | 06:42 |
| IronY | 100k on 14.59 million is their estimate without | 06:43 |
| yuriwho | have they released the new business lock down list yet IronY? | 06:43 |
| PlanckWalk | Yes, every "scary" estimate I've seen is too low :-( | 06:43 |
| IronY | yuriwho: I keep getting it in piece meal through people messaging stores messaging them | 06:43 |
| IronY | yuriwho: pet stores / pot stores | 06:44 |
| PlanckWalk | I remember when the media here were projected that maybe up to 3000 people in Italy might die. | 06:44 |
| IronY | that being said they all have the option of curb side | 06:44 |
| PlanckWalk | (As a worst case) | 06:44 |
| IronY | or delivery | 06:44 |
| IronY | I know Best Buy and Canada computers started doing curb side 2 weeks ago | 06:44 |
| IronY | yuriwho: looks like there just trying to prevent 'browsers' and 'social shoppers' | 06:44 |
| yuriwho | uggh | 06:44 |
| yuriwho | where abouts are you PlanckWalk? | 06:45 |
| PlanckWalk | Australia | 06:45 |
| yuriwho | Commonwealth kin | 06:45 |
| PlanckWalk | God save the Queen! | 06:46 |
| yuriwho | lol | 06:46 |
| IronY | seems nothing can kill the queen | 06:47 |
| IronY | So I have a 0.2% chance of a 0.1% chance of dying | 06:49 |
| IronY | I think that is better odds then just getting hit by a car | 06:49 |
| IronY | I may have the same odds of Jesus showing up next friday and saving us from covid | 06:51 |
| IronY | I will keep u posted | 06:51 |
| jester | seedking and moonshine | 06:51 |
| dunnp | where do you get 0.2% of 0.1% | 06:51 |
| yuriwho | on the bright side we now have 1000+ convalescent blood donors now in Ontario | 06:51 |
| IronY | dunnp: 0.1% of ontario will die of covid19, 0.2% of those people will be 29 to 37 or what ever the range is | 06:51 |
| yuriwho | time to smoke a fatty and listen to some Tragically Hip | 06:52 |
| IronY | yuriwho: I just weedmaps an ounce and some hash | 06:52 |
| IronY | lol i thought it was cute when they said there shutting down pot stores | 06:52 |
| yuriwho | and remember watching them live at the Elmo | 06:53 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1174 cases (now 1100340), +33 deaths (now 59212), +15 recoveries (now 228938) since 2 hours ago — India: +515 cases (now 3082), +14 deaths (now 86) since 2 hours ago — Japan: +318 cases (now 2935), +6 deaths (now 69) since 2 hours ago | 06:54 |
| dunnp | i think the 0.2% is death rate of all cases not of deaths | 06:55 |
| dunnp | so far | 06:55 |
| IronY | !risk 35 | 06:55 |
| CovBot | I estimate a 35 year old patient sick with COVID-19 has a 99.7% chance of survival, a 14.7% likelihood of needing to go to hospital, a 3.9% risk of needing intensive care there and a 0.3% chance of death. | 06:55 |
| IronY | 0.3% sorry | 06:56 |
| yuriwho | problem is people are not compliant with social distancing here | 06:56 |
| IronY | the 0.1 is an official model from my government, the 0.3 is a made up magical number that i use for fun | 06:56 |
| yuriwho | https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/oqPF1qC6/04%20Bobcaygeon.m4p | 06:57 |
| yuriwho | Apple Music still offers 3 months free | 06:58 |
| PlanckWalk | The 0.1% is a different ratio, you can't multiply it by 0.3% and get anythign sensible | 07:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 05:04 UTC: /u/slakmehl: In an attempted late night coup, the United States President has named a White House aide as the ultimate authority over the $500 billion coronavirus aide package, and removed various executive branch Inspectors General, including the ICIG who reported the Ukraine whistleblower complaint. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/dUynBW | 07:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:06 UTC: Australia news: Coronavirus Australia live news: Australia death toll rises to 30 as NSW health minister under fire for handling of Ruby Princess – latest updates — from r/WorldNews at 05:06: France to "Temporarily" Nationalize Companies Over COVID-19 → https://is.gd/pYqOtr | 07:14 |
| IronY | PlanckWalk: none of it is overly sensible imo | 07:14 |
| IronY | I am not sure how 0.1% is going to scare people into staying inside | 07:15 |
| IronY | but yes 0.1% of the population would then be broken down into sub groups based on age ranges / sex / etc etc | 07:15 |
| PlanckWalk | Use hospitalization figures instead of deaths? ;-) | 07:15 |
| IronY | PlanckWalk: They decided not to give those figures :P | 07:15 |
| PlanckWalk | A lot of people are almost as fearful of going into hospital as of dying. | 07:16 |
| IronY | I am one of those people | 07:16 |
| IronY | otherwise I would be outside jogging right now | 07:16 |
| IronY | because I would have more then a 0.1% chance of getting stabbed in this area jogging at 1am | 07:16 |
| PlanckWalk | Hospitalization rates are something like 15 times greater than deaths | 07:16 |
| IronY | so 1.5% | 07:16 |
| IronY | well | 07:16 |
| IronY | %wa 0.1 * 15 | 07:17 |
| Brainstorm | IronY, Wolfram|Alpha (0.1×15): Result: 1.5 → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=0.1+%2A+15 | 07:17 |
| IronY | LjL: I pay attention to ur elite commandz :D | 07:17 |
| IronY | PlanckWalk: Last time i went to the hospital was because of a christmas tree of all things | 07:19 |
| tinwhiskers | How to Significantly Slow Coronavirus? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZtEX2-n2Hc #Masks4All | 07:20 |
| tinwhiskers | You mask protects me, my mask protects you. Please start wearing a mask when you go out. | 07:20 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: I just orderd a balacalava lol | 07:20 |
| tinwhiskers | lol. nice | 07:21 |
| IronY | I use my 1 n95 once every 2 weeks | 07:21 |
| IronY | failing that, a bandana that is insta washed on return | 07:21 |
| tinwhiskers | Anything is better than nothing | 07:21 |
| dunnp | cant even get bandanas on amazon anymore | 07:22 |
| IronY | dunnp: fittlingly it is a fallout 4 bandana | 07:22 |
| IronY | never thought I would get to use it unironically | 07:22 |
| dunnp | I have some N95s though | 07:22 |
| IronY | so i guess there is that | 07:22 |
| IronY | yuriwho: the wifes got EE cups | 07:23 |
| tinwhiskers | I sewed two fabric masks today. They're actually kinda stylin'. DIY FACE MASK from old clothes in 2 ways - Washable & Reusable face mask - No sewing machine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUasSmReIVo | 07:23 |
| IronY | 1 cup is enough to cover my face | 07:23 |
| dunnp | think this would work?: https://www.amazon.com/Gpeng-Snorkeling-Detachable-Panoramic-Anti-Leak/dp/B082W1VWXZ/ | 07:23 |
| tinwhiskers | There's no excuse for not wearing a mask when you go out in public, really. | 07:23 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: aside from the incredibly mixed messages governments are sending | 07:24 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, well. Now we know better. | 07:24 |
| IronY | *WE* know better, until my gov sends a clear message, the other 99.99% of ontario will tell me otherwise | 07:25 |
| PlanckWalk | My government is saying that they recommend that Australian public do not wear a mask in public. | 07:25 |
| tinwhiskers | Start normalising it yourself and lead by example so that when people do get the message there won't be a stigma | 07:25 |
| PlanckWalk | :-( | 07:25 |
| IronY | My theory is they are waiting for everyone to donate their N95s / P100s to health care workers before recommending fabric masks | 07:25 |
| IronY | be a hard sell to recommend masks and ask for mask donations at the same time | 07:25 |
| tinwhiskers | You should not be buying N95 masks to protect yourself (medical staff need those). You *should* be using a cloth mask to protect others. | 07:26 |
| IronY | not buying | 07:26 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: for example I come from a mining city | 07:26 |
| dunnp | they wont take open boxes - how many people have sealed boxes of masks sitting around | 07:26 |
| tinwhiskers | There is now beginning to be a stigma toward those wearing N95 masks as being selfish | 07:26 |
| IronY | 90% of professions their require masks | 07:26 |
| IronY | Vale (the company) has stock piles of n95 / p100s | 07:27 |
| IronY | miners have easy access to them | 07:27 |
| tinwhiskers | The right thing to do is donate N95 masks to your local hospital and get yourself a cloth mask to protect others. | 07:27 |
| tinwhiskers | obv. not ones you've used :-) | 07:28 |
| dunnp | I have abouy 7 N95s around the house | 07:28 |
| dunnp | but again they won't take just a mask that isn't sealed | 07:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China mourns those killed by pandemic, Tesla dismissing contractors — from r/WorldNews at 05:22: More than 100 doctors and nurses have died combating coronavirus across the world - 'nearly half of whom are reported to be in Italy.' → https://is.gd/cdi8dt | 07:28 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: yes, we agree, btut the 50 year old miners who have been subject to long term lung issues by trade might see it differently | 07:28 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 07:28 |
| dunnp | shouldn't stigmatize people for using something they've already got | 07:31 |
| dunnp | or if they prepared better | 07:31 |
| tinwhiskers | no, but that will happen anyway | 07:31 |
| IronY | dunnp: I love your optimisim in humanity | 07:31 |
| dunnp | IronY: oh im sure it will happen | 07:31 |
| dunnp | but I'll wear my N95 anyway | 07:31 |
| IronY | and I would not blame u | 07:32 |
| IronY | if u have 3 or 4 n95s and 2 people in ur home | 07:32 |
| IronY | that makes sense | 07:32 |
| IronY | if you have 10000 n95s and 2 people in ur home, do the right thing | 07:32 |
| dunnp | heh | 07:32 |
| dunnp | maybe after this settles down I will have that... | 07:32 |
| tinwhiskers | 10.000? if you have just 30 N95 masks still in sealed packets give all but a few to your hospital and save some lives | 07:33 |
| dunnp | ive got one with replaceable filters | 07:34 |
| yuriwho | I have a full face gas mask with activated carbon filters | 07:34 |
| tinwhiskers | sweet | 07:35 |
| IronY | I am in the processes of 3d printing a new set of lungs | 07:35 |
| IronY | got u all beat | 07:35 |
| IronY | so there! | 07:35 |
| yuriwho | little embarrassing wearing to the local Supercentre when no one else is wearing masks | 07:35 |
| IronY | I have an anonymous mask | 07:36 |
| IronY | lol I should retrofit that | 07:36 |
| tinwhiskers | :-/ | 07:36 |
| IronY | and put an insert for filterable material in front of the mouth hole | 07:36 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: for real though, thats not a bad option as it would also function has a face guard | 07:36 |
| tinwhiskers | oh, I thought you meant an anonymous hostmask | 07:36 |
| IronY | lol no a former halloween costume | 07:37 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, true | 07:37 |
| dunnp | have mine for garage work sort of things | 07:37 |
| tinwhiskers | yuriwho: were you the person in that photo at the supermarket in full white PPE with gas mask? | 07:37 |
| dunnp | why do you have a full gas mask yuriwho? | 07:37 |
| IronY | yeah my n95 was for spray painiting 3d prints | 07:37 |
| dunnp | thats what my paper ones were for. also I have a few from a family member who was in chemo | 07:38 |
| yuriwho | tinwhiskers: not I, but I wonder if I shouldn't become Max-PPE man just to get peoples attention | 07:38 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 07:39 |
| yuriwho | I could wear my pulse-oximeter too | 07:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +18252 cases (now 1118592), +10 deaths (now 59222), +52 recoveries (now 228990) since 50 minutes ago — France: +17827 cases (now 82165) since 3 hours ago — India: +515 cases (now 3082), +14 deaths (now 86), +37 recoveries (now 229) since 3 hours ago | 07:39 |
| dunnp | lol | 07:40 |
| yuriwho | portable ham radio .... check | 07:40 |
| dunnp | throw on a blood pressure cuff as well | 07:40 |
| IronY | yuriwho: just put a print out of ur face on a drone | 07:40 |
| IronY | try to buy stuff with it | 07:40 |
| yuriwho | lol | 07:40 |
| Jo-Anna | I missed the conversation earlier but I’d like to add I’ve lost the ability to taste for a long time before when I had the flu + pneumonia | 07:44 |
| yuriwho | yea, these virii can be neuroinvasive | 07:45 |
| Jo-Anna | I also lost my appetite | 07:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:38 UTC: Australia news: Coronavirus Australia live news: Australia death toll rises to 30 as NSW health minister under fire for handling of Ruby Princess – latest updates — from r/WorldNews at 05:38: More than 100 doctors and nurses have died combating coronavirus across the world - 'nearly half of whom are reported to be in Italy.' → https://is.gd/pYqOtr | 07:47 |
| IronY | my trip to the gas station rendered 0 social interactions | 08:03 |
| IronY | and 0 need to step physically in the store | 08:03 |
| IronY | win! lol | 08:03 |
| IronY | i still burnt a clean pair of clothes and my bandana (by burnt i mean, i now need to wash them again) | 08:05 |
| IronY | going outside for 5 mins, the new 2 hour job | 08:05 |
| adventurer | nice one IronY | 08:06 |
| adventurer | what is the 2 hour job | 08:07 |
| IronY | slight overexhauderation since this trip does not require a shower | 08:07 |
| IronY | but generally, leave to get smokes / energy drinks | 08:07 |
| IronY | involves getting dressed, properly, putting on limited PPE available, leaving the house, waiting for 0 other customers, buying goods, coming back, removing ppe properly, washing hands, removing face ppe, washing hands, cleaning the goods I just purchased (hot water / soap), washing hands | 08:08 |
| IronY | if I had to step into the store physically I would of also probably added a shower | 08:08 |
| IronY | https://cdn.irony.online/links.txt | 08:16 |
| IronY | all links collected by mrnodebot regarding covid19 channels | 08:16 |
| IronY | most recent at the bottom | 08:16 |
| Toadisattva | that is a lot of links! | 08:17 |
| tinwhiskers | lol | 08:17 |
| IronY | 5439 rows in set (0.10 sec) and those are distinct | 08:17 |
| IronY | sec lets count with out distinct lol | 08:18 |
| tinwhiskers | some light reading | 08:18 |
| dunnp | use them to build a marjov chain and generate a super article for us | 08:18 |
| IronY | 6756 | 08:18 |
| dunnp | *markov | 08:18 |
| IronY | with duplicates | 08:18 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 08:18 |
| IronY | dunnp: thats not a bad idea lol | 08:19 |
| IronY | one thing I am going to do right now though is generate a youtube playlist with every youtube link | 08:19 |
| dunnp | 95% conspiracy videos I imagine | 08:20 |
| IronY | hrm | 08:21 |
| IronY | how about this | 08:21 |
| Toadisattva | /r/covid19 has a fantastic index of the peer reviewed and pending peer review research | 08:21 |
| IronY | We need a tagging system for links | 08:21 |
| IronY | let me ponder this, could be something like you include a hash tag when you post a link, not required of course to be counted, but would be easier to sort | 08:21 |
| dunnp | ok adversarial network - lets do it | 08:22 |
| dunnp | classify them all | 08:22 |
| dunnp | build a meta youtube video | 08:22 |
| IronY | MrNodeBot already has a upvote system | 08:22 |
| IronY | so for example i can do something like this | 08:22 |
| dunnp | my awesome | 08:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China mourns those killed by pandemic, Tesla dismissing contractors — from r/WorldNews at 06:19: NHS worker quit when she was stopped from wearing face mask | Tracy Brennan chastised superiors at hospitals trust for making her remove mask she had bought herself → https://is.gd/cdi8dt | 08:23 |
| IronY | could use that to weight links from certain people | 08:23 |
| IronY | s/hiugh/high | 08:24 |
| dunnp | my GPU is getting nothing from folding@home | 08:24 |
| tinwhiskers | Toadisattva: yeah, /r/covid19 is good stuff with rational mods | 08:24 |
| IronY | dunnp: I sometimes go a day without any WU, i somehow managed to get a shit ton of points this week | 08:24 |
| IronY | sec | 08:24 |
| IronY | 2,362,675 points this week | 08:24 |
| IronY | i just got my power bill yesterday and decided to switch it from full to light how ever | 08:24 |
| Toadisattva | it's nice there is at least one place providing the actual resarch | 08:25 |
| dunnp | I have none. | 08:25 |
| IronY | What gpu? | 08:25 |
| dunnp | I wonder if the school decided to block it | 08:25 |
| dunnp | Titan V | 08:25 |
| IronY | 1080TI, so yeah , you should still be getting some | 08:25 |
| tinwhiskers | Toadisattva: I find this one quite good too, as it's real doctors involved on the ground: https://twitter.com/hashtag/medtwitter | 08:25 |
| IronY | my 32 core processor has not gotten a WU in over 3 weeks | 08:26 |
| IronY | well, 16 core x 2 thread | 08:26 |
| tinwhiskers | Although it doesn't seem to be getting updated much right now - I guess people might be busy. | 08:26 |
| IronY | i just like saying 32 core because it is absurd | 08:26 |
| dunnp | flex my 88 thread machine | 08:26 |
| dunnp | ofc it is a work machine, not mine | 08:26 |
| Toadisattva | oh man it's very late I better get to bed, night night | 08:26 |
| IronY | what proc is giving you 88? | 08:27 |
| tinwhiskers | gn | 08:27 |
| IronY | high end xeon? | 08:27 |
| dunnp | same with the titan V | 08:27 |
| IronY | Toadisattva: Night! | 08:27 |
| dunnp | yea dual xeons | 08:27 |
| IronY | dunnp: cool story for you | 08:27 |
| dunnp | built it from scratch! | 08:27 |
| IronY | 4 weeks ago I blew a intel 6850k (6x2 48 pcie lane) | 08:27 |
| IronY | so i built a ryzen 9 3950 or what ever the largest ryzen 9 is | 08:27 |
| dunnp | can't do CPU WUs because the threads are constantly in use by my students | 08:28 |
| IronY | I go check the warranty on the intel cpu | 08:28 |
| IronY | i had 4 days left | 08:28 |
| IronY | intel , during the covid pandemic, managed to do an rma in under a week from me shipping it out | 08:28 |
| dunnp | lucky | 08:28 |
| IronY | made zero sense | 08:28 |
| dunnp | the xeons are e5-2699v4 | 08:29 |
| IronY | they call me IronY because I used my 3 hours of professor income to pay for my weed this week | 08:29 |
| IronY | *drum roll* | 08:29 |
| dunnp | 3 hour? | 08:29 |
| dunnp | lecturing? | 08:29 |
| IronY | I am a theory prof in the first semester | 08:30 |
| dunnp | still either a lot of weed... or really expensive? | 08:30 |
| IronY | in the second I normally just do a lab or to | 08:30 |
| IronY | a lot of weed | 08:30 |
| IronY | two* | 08:30 |
| IronY | Super happy I am not a theory prof right now | 08:30 |
| IronY | as a lab prof I just got to sit on a slack group and answer questions for 3 hours | 08:30 |
| IronY | theory profs still need to get dressed and hop on video lectures | 08:31 |
| dunnp | UT? | 08:31 |
| IronY | Algonquin College - Ottawa | 08:31 |
| dunnp | I sit in front of a camera 3 hours a week in pj bottoms | 08:31 |
| dunnp | teaching | 08:31 |
| dunnp | heh | 08:31 |
| IronY | LOL | 08:31 |
| IronY | I wonder if anyone has been smart enough to get their teacher to quickly stand up | 08:32 |
| dunnp | heh | 08:33 |
| dunnp | dono how they'd manage that | 08:33 |
| IronY | "Is that a roach on ur collar sir" | 08:33 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: Trudeau warns U.S. over restricting the trade of essential goods into Canada - highlight flow of essential supplies to the US from Canada as well (10037 votes) | https://redd.it/fub5pf | 08:37 |
| IronY | yeah that was silly of him | 08:37 |
| IronY | most of the nurses that were willing to take them up on their offer are probably second guessing that choice | 08:37 |
| IronY | could of swore I got into an argument on here yesterday where someone claimed the gov would literally never prevent the export of ppe to other countries | 08:38 |
| IronY | Like many times in the last two weeks, I wish I had lost that argument | 08:38 |
| adventurer | Can rats carry Covid-19? | 08:39 |
| tinwhiskers | They tried to prevent 3M from sending them to places other than the US and 3M refused. | 08:39 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: the 3m refusual was actually around another shipment, but yeah | 08:39 |
| IronY | Trump: Dont send masks to x | 08:39 |
| IronY | 3M: The masks were not made in the us my dude | 08:40 |
| tinwhiskers | ah, right | 08:40 |
| tinwhiskers | ahhh | 08:40 |
| dunnp | trump announced yesterday that they were honoring shipments to places... so clearly he has been wanting to not do this | 08:41 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 08:41 |
| IronY | I mean neither canada or the us is a major producer in PPE | 08:42 |
| IronY | so it was a weird announcement | 08:42 |
| IronY | that will probably work against them | 08:42 |
| tinwhiskers | by "honoring shipments" maybe he meant "stop stealing them". | 08:42 |
| dunnp | kimberly clark was the big ppe maker in US/Canada but they moved most of the manufacrturing overseas in the late 90s | 08:44 |
| IronY | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kVHVGnwAs0 | 08:44 |
| IronY | %title | 08:44 |
| Brainstorm | IronY: From www.youtube.com: Everything You Wanted to Know About COVID-19/the Novel Coronavirus - YouTube | 08:44 |
| dunnp | maybe du pont? but I think they also moved all overseas | 08:44 |
| IronY | There is a dude in this presentation | 08:44 |
| IronY | who keeps caughing in the background | 08:44 |
| IronY | and its nerve wrecking | 08:44 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 08:44 |
| tinwhiskers | Do you get freaked out when you see people shaking hands and greeting with hugs now? | 08:45 |
| IronY | dunnp: I think we are converting bauer | 08:45 |
| IronY | tinwhiskers: I cannot even watch movies right anymore | 08:45 |
| IronY | That being said, I may have been looking at some | 08:45 |
| IronY | umm, live pr0n last night | 08:45 |
| tinwhiskers | :-) | 08:45 |
| IronY | and there is a LOT of woman in mexico not respecting social distancing | 08:45 |
| CovBot | I've been having some issues for the last 7 hours or so, should be fixed now. Apologies everyone 😭. | 08:46 |
| tinwhiskers | Apology accepted CovBot | 08:46 |
| IronY | I really wish you guys would open source ur bots | 08:46 |
| IronY | we could probably consolidate all 4 bots into one bot in under a day | 08:46 |
| tinwhiskers | Situation: 4 different bots. IronY: what we need is a single bot to do all these functions. Situation: 5 different bots. | 08:47 |
| IronY | I was thinking we could use an existing one, I dont even care whos :P | 08:48 |
| tinwhiskers | :-) | 08:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:30 UTC: Coronavirus latest: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak — from r/WorldNews at 06:30: NHS worker quit when she was stopped from wearing face mask | Tracy Brennan chastised superiors at hospitals trust for making her remove mask she had bought herself → https://is.gd/oHUUQC | 08:48 |
| IronY | honestly I will help you program ur bots in languages u made up for fun at this point | 08:48 |
| tinwhiskers | Are you so sure? Mine is in perl!!! | 08:49 |
| IronY | LOOOL | 08:49 |
| dunnp | i miss perl | 08:49 |
| pwr22 | <IronY "I really wish you guys would ope"> CovBot is open source.... | 08:49 |
| IronY | pwr22: Oh I know urs is | 08:50 |
| pwr22 | !source | 08:50 |
| IronY | pwr22: and I appreciate it | 08:50 |
| dunnp | probably 95% of all of my coding was in perl | 08:50 |
| dunnp | because I'm a horrible person | 08:50 |
| tinwhiskers | Actually my bot isn't in this channel anyway. I just have the backend stuff and the graphs (also perl). | 08:50 |
| pwr22 | I like Perl a lot - don't mind using other things though 😁 | 08:51 |
| IronY | MrNodeBot is here but thats to feed http://bot.fsociety.online/coronalinks and ##coronalinks | 08:51 |
| IronY | if you guys are not familiar with https://bot.fsociety.online/coronalinks | 08:51 |
| IronY | give it a look | 08:51 |
| pwr22 | Gah, !source is broken for the same issue | 08:53 |
| pwr22 | I need to host my test instance on an entirely separate maubot instance because sufficiently broken test code has somehow broken the production instance | 08:53 |
| dunnp | I even have a perl mug | 08:53 |
| IronY | http://www.github.com/funsocietyirc/mrnodebot | 08:53 |
| IronY | been working on it for years | 08:53 |
| tinwhiskers | IronY: the coronalinks thing is quite cool. Easier on the eyes than the earlier list you had :-) | 08:55 |
| pwr22 | Cov Bot is a very specific project and it'll go away once COVID does. I look forward to the day 🙂 | 08:55 |
| pwr22 | I do welcome any contributions anyone wants to add. There've been a few already and there's a whole bunch of planned tasks that someone can pick up if they don't have a particular thing they'd like to add | 08:56 |
| dunnp | pwr22: whats the repo link | 08:56 |
| pwr22 | <IronY "http://www.github.com/funsociety"> Thanks for sharing, I'l take a look a bit later today 👍️ | 08:56 |
| sneep | What, I was looking forward to running Cov Bot as my own OS | 08:56 |
| pwr22 | https://github.com/pwr22/covbot | 08:57 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 08:57 |
| sneep | s/own/main/ | 08:57 |
| pwr22 | <sneep "What, I was looking forward to r"> It's not emacs ;) | 08:57 |
| pwr22 | Speaking of which, I installed emacs from flatpak yesterday | 08:57 |
| pwr22 | Surely there must be a way to get it to create shims for applications by default? | 08:57 |
| pwr22 | I mean who wants to type `flatpak run org.gnu.emacs file.txt` | 08:58 |
| sneep | (what's flatpak?) | 08:58 |
| dunnp | eek a javascript bot IronY? | 08:58 |
| tinwhiskers | sadly, the bulk of the graphing stuff on offloop is javascript, because well... but the javascript is generated by perl so I feel better about it. | 08:59 |
| pwr22 | sneep: bit like docker but for packaging interactive applications | 08:59 |
| dunnp | jfc IronY commented js | 09:00 |
| sneep | Hmm, should look into it | 09:00 |
| pwr22 | <tinwhiskers "sadly, the bulk of the graphing "> And how much of the Perl is generated by Perl 😛 ? | 09:00 |
| Timvde | A bit like docker, except not like docker at all | 09:00 |
| pwr22 | In terms of the user interface and the way it works from the UI it is very similar | 09:00 |
| pwr22 | both fetch images and run them | 09:01 |
| pwr22 | Most people using docker don't really seem to know what it does at all 😭 | 09:01 |
| tinwhiskers | I have no idea what it does | 09:01 |
| tinwhiskers | But I don't like it! | 09:01 |
| pwr22 | ha ha | 09:01 |
| sneep | Docker is awesome | 09:02 |
| sneep | And a bit silly in some places, but still awesome overall I think :p | 09:02 |
| Timvde | pwr22: I know way more about docker than flatpak, fwiw | 09:02 |
| pwr22 | 👍️ | 09:02 |
| pwr22 | Everything I deploy is using docker these days | 09:02 |
| pwr22 | Yeah, me too | 09:02 |
| pwr22 | I know a little about flatpak because I have some passionate colleagues | 09:02 |
| Timvde | At work, we're running kubernetes | 09:03 |
| pwr22 | the main thing for me atm is it's the easiest way to keep up to date with the latest Riot builds without building from source | 09:03 |
| Timvde | But personally, I just deploy everything in the old-fashioned way | 09:03 |
| pwr22 | tinwhiskers: random thing but you may appreciate it. $work had a 500k sloc Perl codebase heavily using string eval which made debugging horrendous. I refactored it over a year to ~6.5k sloc with no string eval and lots of modern perl goodness 🙂 | 09:04 |
| pwr22 | Sadly it's very stable / sustaining at this point so it just chugs away and I get to work on other things | 09:04 |
| pwr22 | There was such a sense of satisfaction from getting to this point lol | 09:05 |
| pwr22 | <Timvde "But personally, I just deploy ev"> I'm using docker-compose on my personal things atm | 09:05 |
| Timvde | I have a very low-resource VPS, and for most things I run, I don't care about a specific version, just debian package is perfect | 09:07 |
| sneep | The largest code base I've (really) worked on so far is 133000 lines including tests : | 09:08 |
| sneep | And probably over half of that code is for other architectures | 09:08 |
| sneep | 500k of perl sounds crazy | 09:09 |
| sneep | loc* | 09:09 |
| dunnp | damn ive never worked on anything nearly those sizes | 09:10 |
| pwr22 | sneep: it was totally overengineered and filled with so much copy+paste | 09:10 |
| dunnp | no easy way to see the size on github is there? | 09:11 |
| dunnp | of a whole repo | 09:11 |
| pwr22 | Working on it taught me a lot about forming the right abstractions, modular design and ui design | 09:11 |
| pwr22 | dunnp: clone the repo and run cloc on it? | 09:12 |
| pwr22 | I'm not aware there's a sloc figure in the GUI | 09:12 |
| pwr22 | Probably to stop managers obsessing over it | 09:12 |
| pwr22 | More code is always better, right? 🤦♂️ | 09:12 |
| sneep | I've plunged into large codebases to fix random bugs. Luckily you don't even need to know the big picture to fix silly bugs | 09:13 |
| ubLIX | dunnp: you meant size in terms of loc and not bytes? | 09:14 |
| dunnp | yea | 09:14 |
| ubLIX | oh | 09:15 |
| dunnp | hmm I guess I didn't realize how many lines these things were.. last one was 125k | 09:15 |
| sneep | I tried to fix a bug in Docker once but never managed to compile a debug build and attach a debugger | 09:15 |
| sneep | Stupid Go | 09:16 |
| dunnp | current one we are publishing is 4.4k which is more normal I think | 09:16 |
| dunnp | for research | 09:16 |
| IronY | dunnp: Node is great for bots | 09:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:13 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Xi leads national day of mourning in China; Tesla dismissing contractors — from r/WorldNews at 07:13: Wives can refuse sexual advances from husbands during coronavirus quarantine, says top Saudi cleric → https://is.gd/cdi8dt | 09:19 |
| dunnp | I don't doubt at all | 09:19 |
| dunnp | i havent coded in modern js much at all | 09:19 |
| sneep | lol @ top saudi cleric | 09:20 |
| IronY | dunnp: you will notice my js is about has modern has it can get, thankfully I am a programmer who learned to program in c that learned js and not a programmer who just knows js | 09:20 |
| IronY | there is a difference, I promise :D | 09:20 |
| pwr22 | I like the Go way of doing async things | 09:20 |
| IronY | what made me end up going node over c# which was my considerations was dynamic-reinterpretation is easier than dynamic-recomplication without dropping a single response | 09:21 |
| IronY | recompilation that is | 09:21 |
| Timvde | IronY: I refuse to believe that node is great for anything | 09:22 |
| IronY | Timvde: it kinda sums up like this | 09:22 |
| IronY | node is what, 8 years old now? | 09:22 |
| Timvde | IronY: at least it's Typescript, right? | 09:22 |
| IronY | oh fuck no, its a bot, not an angular project | 09:22 |
| Timvde | (But even then, the entire node ecosystem is madness) | 09:23 |
| IronY | I have a feeling u last checked in about 4 years ago and formed a strong opinion over not wanting to learn a new language, and that is within ur right | 09:23 |
| Timvde | IronY: No, I'm currently taking over some work from the frontend team | 09:24 |
| IronY | but I have as much experience in this ecosystem as there is time available in this ecosystem, and economically, I assure you is great | 09:24 |
| IronY | node != front end | 09:24 |
| Timvde | It's actual frontend, could be that backend work is less crazy | 09:24 |
| IronY | front end js is the worst thing known to man, no argument there | 09:24 |
| Timvde | Node is used to run tests, linting... | 09:25 |
| Timvde | It's crazy bloated | 09:25 |
| IronY | thats tooling | 09:25 |
| IronY | node is just a c style language targeted at libgcc and libuv | 09:25 |
| Timvde | Okay, then shoot | 09:25 |
| IronY | how you use it is entire up to you | 09:26 |
| IronY | any UK people awake? | 09:27 |
| ubLIX | your dear friend ubLIX is here :p | 09:28 |
| nalkri | From the UK or currently in the UK? | 09:28 |
| Timvde | But in any case I really want a good type system, and JS doesn't offer that to me | 09:28 |
| pwr22 | I am from UK | 09:28 |
| ubLIX | 8.30am in UK at the moment | 09:28 |
| IronY | ubLIX: Someone posted a banned.video link in the other chan and I hit it without realizing it was infowars | 09:28 |
| nalkri | because I fulfill one of those criteria | 09:28 |
| IronY | can u speak to | 09:28 |
| IronY | "The NIH has now announced the lockdown is permanent & will never be completely lifted again – Tune in to find out the horrifying details. The NIH now claims the lockdown won’t be lifted until there’s “no new deaths” from Covid-19, a shocking revelation that tears power away from President Trump to ensure there’s a long economic shutdown" | 09:28 |
| IronY | mostly the first part | 09:28 |
| Timvde | TypeScript is an okay workaround | 09:28 |
| ubLIX | nalkri: from and currently in | 09:28 |
| IronY | Timvde: how much abstraction do you need to prevent you from writing bad code before you just stop writing bad code though | 09:29 |
| IronY | Timvde: if you write shitty code in x language, you wrote shitty code imo, no need for a 25th order language that prevents me from cutting myself lol | 09:29 |
| Timvde | I like to think my code is pretty okay, and types help me to verify that | 09:30 |
| dunnp | NIH doesn't control any policy about the lockdown... | 09:30 |
| IronY | The weird thing is it has been like 4 years since I have seen an alex jones video | 09:31 |
| pwr22 | I don't even know who the NIH are | 09:31 |
| IronY | and his tone is exactly the same | 09:31 |
| IronY | pwr22: National Institute of Health I guess, but it is the UKS health org | 09:31 |
| Timvde | IronY: by adding type hints and mypy checking to our Python codebase, we discovered tons of subtle mistakes and reduced our bug inflow with an order of magnitude | 09:31 |
| dunnp | NIH is the US National Institutes for Health | 09:31 |
| IronY | Timvde: I type check in JS, but it is because I chose to do it | 09:32 |
| dunnp | uks health org is NHS right? | 09:32 |
| IronY | dunnp: good catch | 09:32 |
| IronY | this makes more sense | 09:32 |
| IronY | sorry ubLIX | 09:32 |
| ubLIX | was wondering | 09:32 |
| pwr22 | NHS is our healthcare, yeah | 09:32 |
| dunnp | but NIH does research like a university and issues grants to other biomed researchers | 09:33 |
| Timvde | IronY: If that's without using TypeScript, I'm interested in what your toolchain is | 09:33 |
| dunnp | it doesnt set rules on lockdowns | 09:33 |
| IronY | Timvde: it is called real time type checks | 09:33 |
| IronY | Timvde: _.isString, _.isNumber _.isFloat , etc etc, you can write it less cleanly in vanillia js, those examples are from lodash | 09:33 |
| dunnp | like CIHR in Canada | 09:33 |
| Timvde | You mean you write code to check types at runtime? | 09:34 |
| IronY | Timvde: The logger is verbose, the odd errors I do make as per types are caught in daily logs including a full stack trace | 09:34 |
| Timvde | Yea, no, thanks. | 09:34 |
| IronY | Timvde: different tools for different projects my man | 09:34 |
| IronY | one language is not for everything ever | 09:34 |
| Timvde | Sure, but I don't want to manually check things my compiler could perfectly catch | 09:35 |
| IronY | lol | 09:35 |
| IronY | are you telling me there are no errors in compiled programs? | 09:35 |
| Timvde | No, of course not | 09:35 |
| IronY | Timvde: you can also typecheck in unit tests, which would be preferred, I am just extra anal on gates | 09:35 |
| Timvde | But you can eliminate certain classes of errors and be left with fewer bugs | 09:35 |
| IronY | Timvde: You can limit 100% of bugs with less human error though | 09:36 |
| Timvde | And every bug you catch at compile time is one bug fewer at runtime | 09:36 |
| Timvde | And fewer tests to write, just add annotations and the tests are autogenerated, so to say | 09:37 |
| IronY | You are speaking to a very specific eco system, if I was writing a mission critical / real time / highly optimized application | 09:37 |
| IronY | I would not be writing it in node | 09:37 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: After Trump tries to block 3M’s N95 orders placed by Canada, Ontario’s premier turns the table, plans to mobilize production for “N96” masks, and keep them North of the border. (10477 votes) | https://redd.it/fulvh7 | 09:37 |
| IronY | If i was writing a bot, it is between node and python at this point | 09:37 |
| Timvde | I'd probably use Python, but _definitely_ with mypy | 09:38 |
| IronY | I hate white space languages | 09:39 |
| IronY | so so much | 09:39 |
| Timvde | It also helps me as a programmer, so I don't need to check what types a function can get | 09:39 |
| Timvde | It's right there, annotated | 09:39 |
| Timvde | I have double feelings with that, but in the end, good and clear indentation is important, and I just do it "right" anyway | 09:40 |
| IronY | Timvde: Gonna be real with you, you have just enough opinions on things that have many people with the opposite opinions I could not hire you | 09:40 |
| aldwich | hi all | 09:40 |
| IronY | morning aldwich | 09:40 |
| IronY | TIL N96 masks are a thing | 09:41 |
| IronY | "So Trump doesn't want 3M selling any more N95 particular respirator masks to Canada? So what? We're getting an even cooler mask, according to Ontario Premier Doug Ford: The N96. " | 09:41 |
| IronY | I am gonna wait for the N96S | 09:42 |
| Timvde | IronY: and that's perfectly fine :) | 09:42 |
| IronY | turns out N96 masks were our premiers joke to trumps threat | 09:42 |
| IronY | Oh Canada, stay classy lol | 09:43 |
| Timvde | IronY: I know that I have some strong opinions and I'm really picky | 09:43 |
| IronY | Timvde: As am I, but it is a good life lesson to learn that your opinions are your opinions and pushing them on others is normally not a good thing unless you find yourself a Software Architect on a green field project | 09:44 |
| IronY | realistically, at the end of the day, you inherit the code style of the last person to touch the thing | 09:44 |
| Timvde | And then I fix it | 09:46 |
| Timvde | Since I work at my current job, we added type hints and type checking with mypy, we moved to trunk based development and everyone writes really awesome, multi-line commit messages | 09:47 |
| IronY | That ends up depending on the business value of tackling technical debt | 09:47 |
| IronY | if you have a million line saas app with interconnected dependencies | 09:47 |
| IronY | you do not just 'fix it' | 09:47 |
| Timvde | Okay, admittedly, there already was a microservice architecture, the largest codebase is probably not much over 50k lines (haven't actually checked) | 09:48 |
| Timvde | That definitely made it easier | 09:48 |
| IronY | I try to work at a place for like 4 months before I subtly start dropping words like rewrite | 09:48 |
| IronY | lol | 09:48 |
| IronY | or full-regression | 09:48 |
| IronY | Lol Alex Jones - "The vaccine is going to sterilize you" | 09:55 |
| IronY | Me - Cool, that saves a surgery | 09:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 08:05 UTC: worldnews: China mourns Covid-19 whistleblowers as Trump dismisses US face mask advice → https://is.gd/pzrgKQ | 10:20 |
| aradesh | IronY: ffs man, lol | 10:21 |
| aradesh | don't do it xD | 10:21 |
| IronY | Lol | 10:24 |
| IronY | I cannot watch serious stuff this close to bed | 10:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:19 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Buongiorno a tutti, mentre eravate via — from r/WorldNews at 08:19: S. Korea reports first death of doctor from COVID-19 → https://is.gd/golSDW | 10:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:25 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA — from r/WorldNews at 08:25: S. Korea reports first death of doctor from COVID-19 → https://is.gd/Jq9lzr | 10:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:31 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Xi leads national day of mourning in China; Tesla dismissing contractors — from r/WorldNews at 08:31: Prague Mayor says he doesn't want China's coronavirus supplies → https://is.gd/cdi8dt | 10:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1842 cases (now 1120434), +44 deaths (now 59266), +348 recoveries (now 229338) since 3 hours ago — Russia: +582 cases (now 4731), +9 deaths (now 43), +52 recoveries (now 333) since 3 hours ago — California, US: +314 cases (now 12581), +10 deaths (now 285) since 6 hours ago | 10:39 |
| aradesh | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52104978 (Will coronavirus reverse globalisation?) | 10:47 |
| IronY | sYN4P515: still there | 10:47 |
| sYN4P515 | yes | 10:47 |
| IronY | sYN4P515: you were right, the last two fields are null, but they shifted one of the vars by 1 place, which is why your daily count is 0 | 10:48 |
| IronY | // pruid,prname,prnameFR,date,numconf,numprob,numdeaths,numtotal,numtoday | 10:48 |
| IronY | // pruid,prname,prnameFR,date,numconf,numprob,numdeaths,numtotal,numtested,numtoday,percentoday | 10:48 |
| IronY | old versus new | 10:48 |
| IronY | tested got put in front of today | 10:49 |
| sYN4P515 | shifting fields around is fine, parsing should still work | 10:51 |
| sYN4P515 | numtoday and percentoday are last two fields, so they are 0 | 10:51 |
| Biep[m] | <Butterfly^ "half the time URLs aren't really"> Then use Riot as a client, and set *previews* on. Whether we see titles or not should be a reader decision, not a writer one. So you can have previews on, and LjL have them off, and both are happy. | 11:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 08:41 UTC: worldnews: India Drags China To International Court For COVID-19 War → https://is.gd/pbYtCh | 11:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:02 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Xi leads national day of mourning in China; Tesla dismissing contractors — from r/WorldNews at 09:02: Prague Mayor says he doesn't want China's coronavirus supplies → https://is.gd/cdi8dt | 11:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:09 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Lockdown could be relaxed in 'weeks' if public follow distancing rules — from r/WorldNews at 09:09: Prague Mayor says he doesn't want China's coronavirus supplies → https://is.gd/3HG7He | 11:20 |
| aradesh | 20 weeks | 11:23 |
| aradesh | lol | 11:24 |
| aradesh | 100 weeks | 11:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2228 cases (now 1122662), +156 deaths (now 59422), +978 recoveries (now 230316) since an hour ago — Belgium: +1661 cases (now 18431), +140 deaths (now 1283), +375 recoveries (now 3247) since 7 hours ago — Russia: +582 cases (now 4731), +9 deaths (now 43), +52 recoveries (now 333) since 3 hours ago | 11:24 |
| aldwich | so many mixed signals. "just a few weeks", or then "at least till may". oh and this week, yeah, we know the weather is getting better but pretty-please stay at home. ... I get that on the one hand you need to really get the public to stick to the measures and at the same timme offer glimpses of hope that this will be over at some point. but the way things get "communicated" is so incoherent and almost | 11:27 |
| aldwich | contradictory. not helpful at all. | 11:28 |
| Arsanerit | May is just a few weeks away. | 11:38 |
| daveinaus | aldwich: I heard anothr 6 months at least. | 11:39 |
| aldwich | daveinaus: same level of lock-down as at the moment or some form of restriction which may be less strict that right now? | 11:42 |
| daveinaus | aldwich: Not sure about that. What happens if there are no more "tested" cases left, they lift the restrictions, then one person starts spreading it again as it's so contagious. | 11:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:42 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: France overtakes China as number of confirmed cases rises above 83,000 — from r/WorldNews at 09:42: Prague Mayor says he doesn't want China's coronavirus supplies → https://is.gd/cdi8dt | 11:45 |
| mefistofeles | https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/04/02/science.abb7269 niiice | 11:47 |
| aldwich | daveinaus: agreed. the exiting phase needs careful planning. by then we need sufficient hospitalisation capacity, ventilators etc all in place for the infection curve to play out (lower but longer drawn out peak), hopefully medication will have been tested and approved by then. so, your 6-months dound quite realistic | 11:48 |
| IronY | Ontario gov is like 18 to 24 months yoh | 11:50 |
| daveinaus | IronY: wow | 11:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +5598 cases (now 1128260), +548 deaths (now 59970), +3707 recoveries (now 234023) since 36 minutes ago — Spain: +5537 cases (now 124736), +546 deaths (now 11744), +3706 recoveries (now 34219) since 36 minutes ago — Austria: +257 cases (now 11781), +485 recoveries (now 2507) since 7 hours ago | 11:54 |
| aradesh | aldwich: it's obviously not going to be a matter of 2 or 3 weeks... maybe 2 or 3 weeks to the peak, then wel'l need at least a minimum of 3 or 4 weeks of making sure it's gone away before we begin relaxing anything, else it'll all just come back again as fast as it started in the first place | 11:56 |
| aradesh | aldwich: it's not even clear if in the UK we're succeeding in reducing the 'r' coefficient below 1, which is a necessary first step | 11:57 |
| mefistofeles | https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=skADAasgtS4 | 11:57 |
| aradesh | i rather get the impression that we'll need to INCREASE our measures to achieve that, and this will add further weeks to the process | 11:58 |
| aradesh | i think there have just been too many people in the UK not taking the measures seriously for them to be effective | 12:00 |
| aradesh | they were too vague with too many loopholes | 12:00 |
| daveinaus | Our infection numbers are slowly dropping here every day, and they are adding tighter restrictions to try and calm it down asap. | 12:00 |
| aradesh | where's that? | 12:00 |
| IronY | daveinaus: to be fair, he said back to normal in 18 to 24 months | 12:00 |
| IronY | I do not assume that meant total isolation for 18 to 24 months | 12:00 |
| IronY | but who knows | 12:00 |
| daveinaus | Brisbane | 12:00 |
| aldwich | aradesh: this may be a silly question, but how can we increase measures here in UK? food deliveries on a large scale are impossible, so we have to leave the house say twice a week just to buy food. exercise in isolation makes sense. but what else could be done? can't think of anything really | 12:01 |
| Akash[m] | %data India | 12:01 |
| Brainstorm | Akash[m]: In all areas, India, there are 3082 cases, 86 deaths (2.8% of cases), 229 recoveries as of 25 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India for time series data. | 12:01 |
| aradesh | aldwich: it would be great if that was what people were doing | 12:01 |
| aradesh | aldwich: the other day i saw a takeaway open, and a car washing shop open | 12:01 |
| aradesh | aldwich: basically needs to be more stringent, "these types of businesses MUST CLOSE immediately" | 12:02 |
| aradesh | and stricted enforcing by the police/military if necessary | 12:02 |
| aradesh | stricter* | 12:02 |
| aradesh | unless i'm wrong, and we are actually succeeding in reducing the infection rate to less than 1 per person | 12:03 |
| aradesh | but i suspect not | 12:03 |
| aldwich | aradesh: hmm, shops like petrol stations, laundrettes, etc, they are basic and should not be shut in my opinion. but maybe police patrolling the streets and asking your biz. | 12:03 |
| Arsanerit | many offices and factories are still open, even when not providing essential services | 12:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 09:44 UTC: worldnews: Fresh from battling Ebola, DR Congo now faces highest Covid-19 death rate In Africa → https://is.gd/RlyYq0 | 12:03 |
| aradesh | it doesn't matter how practical it is. if each person is still infecting more than one person on average, this is not maintainable | 12:03 |
| aradesh | laundrettes are not essential | 12:03 |
| Arsanerit | German news reported that R=1 now here | 12:04 |
| aradesh | you can wash your clothes in your sink | 12:04 |
| Arsanerit | the local tailor shop advertises that they sell face masks, they also have a note "closed due to pandemic" | 12:04 |
| aradesh | kebab shops aren't essential | 12:04 |
| aradesh | car washing shops aren't essential | 12:04 |
| Arsanerit | essential is relative | 12:04 |
| aradesh | yup | 12:05 |
| aldwich | agree with take aways, but on laundry i have to disagree. maybe it's just police presence that is needed, like in france, making use of stop and search or rather stop and show me your permit to go to sainsbury's kinda thing | 12:05 |
| aradesh | perhhaps a laundrette that just does internal work for say hospitals, then that's different | 12:05 |
| Arsanerit | "people can survive without" is a stricter interpretation of essential than most (any?) governments enforce | 12:05 |
| aradesh | what's wrong with hand washing your clothes, if you have no washing machine? | 12:06 |
| Arsanerit | hand wash probably less effective | 12:06 |
| Arsanerit | if I tried it for sure less effective | 12:06 |
| aldwich | well, my sink is too small to hand-wash my duvet, :-) just saying | 12:06 |
| Arsanerit | hand washing effectively is a skill | 12:06 |
| aradesh | people wash their duvet like, at most once a year :P | 12:06 |
| Arsanerit | so often/ | 12:06 |
| aradesh | you can put that on hold | 12:06 |
| Arsanerit | with the stress on "at most", yes | 12:07 |
| aradesh | yeah, most people never wash their duvets imo | 12:07 |
| aldwich | ewww | 12:07 |
| aradesh | i've never done it once, and i've never once heard anyone say "i'm going to the laundrette to wash my duvet" | 12:08 |
| daveinaus | I do mine quite often. No way I can leave that for 12 months. | 12:08 |
| aradesh | i wash my sheets and duvet cover every week though | 12:08 |
| aradesh | but the duvet?... nope | 12:08 |
| aradesh | hehe | 12:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2586 cases (now 1130846), +163 deaths (now 60133) since 33 minutes ago — Iran: +2560 cases (now 55743), +158 deaths (now 3452) since 51 minutes ago — Austria: +257 cases (now 11781), +485 recoveries (now 2507) since 7 hours ago | 12:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:00 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Lockdown could ease by 'end of May' if public follow distancing rules — from r/WorldNews at 10:00: 'Coronavirus is not on holiday': France warns citizens against Easter travel; 160,000 police and gendarmes deployed across country to prevent traditional grand départ → https://is.gd/3HG7He | 12:09 |
| aradesh | maybe it would be a good idea to start trying to wash it though... | 12:11 |
| aradesh | sounds sensible | 12:11 |
| aldwich | Arsanerit: this story about tailors making face masks. this is such a stupid idea. i get it, gives them biz, but these "masks" are not up to specs, offer false sense of security and that's in my view more dangerous than not having any and being uber-careful | 12:11 |
| aldwich | aradesh: alternative: online laundry service with pick up etc, that's a possibility. | 12:11 |
| Arsanerit | aldwich: why is it a bad idea? Of course they don't protect the bearer against getting the virus, I doubt anybody still believes or claims they do, but reportedly if everybody wears them it probably does slow down transmission *from* bearers. | 12:12 |
| Arsanerit | aldwich: your statement is at odds with advise from the Robert Koch Institut and various other institutes. | 12:12 |
| Arsanerit | I wash my down sleeping bag at the laundry service once in a while. | 12:13 |
| PlanckWalk | Most people who passed on the virus didn't know they had it. That's why saying "masks only for those who have COVID" makes no sense at all. | 12:15 |
| Arsanerit | PlanckWalk: indeed, hence the advice "masks for all" | 12:15 |
| PlanckWalk | Right | 12:15 |
| Arsanerit | perhaps those who have proven antibodies exempted? | 12:15 |
| aradesh | thing is, regardless of practicality, if we're not getting the r factor less than 1, we need to either increase measures, on enforce mesaures better | 12:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:13 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia — from r/WorldNews at 10:13: 'Coronavirus is not on holiday': France warns citizens against Easter travel; 160,000 police and gendarmes deployed across country to prevent traditional grand départ → https://is.gd/T40F3n | 12:15 |
| PlanckWalk | Worth a shot if we can verify that the tests work reliably. | 12:15 |
| aldwich | Arsanerit: this is only my personal view. I saw a documentary on ebola the other day and how the medical staff dressed and undressed out of these protective overalls. how careful they had to be, precise steps to take something off etc. never mind whether say cotton filters enough. i just have a bad feeling that this gives psychological comfort and little else | 12:16 |
| Arsanerit | aldwich: oh yes, medical staff definitely needs full protective equipment, that's a different thing I'm talking about | 12:16 |
| fya[m] | do you guys think this covid-19 disease is worse than the common influenza? | 12:16 |
| PlanckWalk | But I guess even 90% specificity would help a great deal. We don't need to reduce transmission to 0, just well below 1. | 12:16 |
| Arsanerit | but reportedly everybody wearing masks all the time may reduce r | 12:16 |
| PlanckWalk | fya[m]: Yes, very much worse. | 12:16 |
| Arsanerit | fya[m]: read reports from Bergamo. It's much worse. | 12:17 |
| Arsanerit | the military aren't normally transporting bodies to mass graves | 12:17 |
| fya[m] | wow | 12:17 |
| fya[m] | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os1TJHJ_ijc | 12:18 |
| aldwich | Arsanerit: masks help. i fully agree, but i think we need to ensure that they are quality tested. wide-spread use of masks is a good thing and i'd be happy to start right away | 12:18 |
| Arsanerit | I've only read German translations of the Italian articles by Francesca Borri, perhaps there are traslations in other languages. | 12:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:15 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna — from r/WorldNews at 10:15: 'Coronavirus is not on holiday': France warns citizens against Easter travel; 160,000 police and gendarmes deployed across country to prevent traditional grand départ → https://is.gd/cbhNHN | 12:22 |
| Arsanerit | You might as well say that bread or pasta are not essential as long as flour is available. | 12:26 |
| fya[m] | it's not the stats that matter | 12:29 |
| fya[m] | it's what's happening in the hospitals | 12:29 |
| fya[m] | especially in big cosmopolitan cities | 12:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:24 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Scienza — from r/WorldNews at 10:24: 'We're not sacrificial lambs': A nurse describes to us what it's like working on the front line of the coronavirus outbreak and reusing her N95 mask → https://is.gd/6DXyAX | 12:30 |
| Arsanerit | the dying are all dying alone | 12:30 |
| Arsanerit | even if some 95-yo might have died this year anyway, they had hope of dying surrounded by loved once if not for the pandemic | 12:30 |
| fya[m] | my father turns 70 this year. do you think we all will get it? | 12:31 |
| Arsanerit | not necessarily | 12:35 |
| Arsanerit | depends a lot on how society acts | 12:35 |
| Arsanerit | China and Korea appear to have it under control | 12:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:36 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: France has more cases than China now, but Spain's daily death toll has fallen — from r/WorldNews at 10:36: 'Coronavirus is not on holiday': France warns citizens against Easter travel; 160,000 police and gendarmes deployed across country to prevent traditional grand départ → https://is.gd/cdi8dt | 12:38 |
| fya[m] | would an oxygen concentrator work as a replacement of a cpap machine? | 12:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +462 cases (now 1131308), +33 deaths (now 60166), +1857 recoveries (now 235880) since 36 minutes ago — Iran: +1801 recoveries (now 19736) since 36 minutes ago — Austria: +257 cases (now 11781), +18 deaths (now 186), +485 recoveries (now 2507) since 8 hours ago | 12:39 |
| Raf[m] | > | 12:47 |
| Raf[m] | would an oxygen concentrator work as a replacement of a cpap machine? | 12:47 |
| Raf[m] | No | 12:47 |
| fya[m] | would it at least help with boosting the blood oxygen levels? | 12:49 |
| pwr22 | <aradesh "i've never done it once, and i'v"> I just buy a new one | 12:50 |
| pwr22 | If your sats are dropping you really should be in hospital | 12:51 |
| pwr22 | Under care of medical professionals | 12:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:50 UTC: /u/The_Fadge: OMS — from r/WorldNews at 10:50: 'Coronavirus is not on holiday': France warns citizens against Easter travel; 160,000 police and gendarmes deployed across country to prevent traditional grand départ → https://is.gd/yiawQ9 | 12:54 |
| mefistofeles | heh, that headline | 12:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:58 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Lockdown could ease by 'end of May' if public follow distancing rules — from r/WorldNews at 10:58: Fresh from battling Ebola, DR Congo now faces highest Covid-19 death rate In Africa → https://is.gd/3HG7He | 13:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1441 cases (now 1132749), +185 deaths (now 60351), +22 recoveries (now 235902) since 37 minutes ago — Netherlands: +904 cases (now 16627), +164 deaths (now 1651) since 37 minutes ago — Austria: +257 cases (now 11781), +18 deaths (now 186), +485 recoveries (now 2507) since 8 hours ago | 13:09 |
| mefistofeles | so, do we agree Italy and Spain are consistently slowing down? | 13:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:08 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: France has more cases than China now, but Spain's daily death toll has fallen — from r/WorldNews at 11:08: Fresh from battling Ebola, DR Congo now faces highest Covid-19 death rate In Africa → https://is.gd/cdi8dt | 13:11 |
| aradesh | i hear sweden still has schools and restaurants open wtf is going on there? | 13:13 |
| ecks | we're just chilling | 13:17 |
| aradesh | doesn't that mean you're gonna get loads and loads of corona deaths? | 13:18 |
| ecks | yeah | 13:21 |
| aradesh | it'll be interesting to see what happens anyway, if sweden carries on without bringing in proper measures. maybe peolpe will self-enforce them, or maybe things won't be as bad as we thought | 13:22 |
| aradesh | but it's a gamble nonetheless, where the cost of losing is many lives | 13:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:13 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Lockdown could ease by 'end of May' if public follow distancing rules [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/3HG7He | 13:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1356 cases (now 1134105), +44 deaths (now 60395), +97 recoveries (now 235999) since 20 minutes ago — Netherlands: +904 cases (now 16627), +164 deaths (now 1651) since 52 minutes ago — Portugal: +638 cases (now 10524), +20 deaths (now 266), +7 recoveries (now 75) since 52 minutes ago | 13:24 |
| aradesh | i thought sweden was meant to have a fairly left winged/socialisty government, but their strategy to preserve economy at the potential cost of people is like, the sort of strategy taht the more extreme members of the US republican party are suggesting | 13:25 |
| aradesh | maybe i'm mistaken about what their government is meant to be like | 13:25 |
| aradesh | human sacrifice to the economy gods ^^ | 13:26 |
| Streaker | shit's going down! https://www.polygraph.info/a/fact-check-russia-covid-19-governors/30529215.html | 13:27 |
| ecks | we are all living in Anders Tegnell's (state epidemiologist) experiment | 13:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:37 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA — from r/WorldNews at 11:37: Doctors say India must prepare for an 'onslaught' as one of Asia's biggest slums reports first coronavirus death → https://is.gd/3PDQxN | 13:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:41 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Lockdown could ease by 'end of May' if public follow distancing rules — from r/WorldNews at 11:41: Doctors say India must prepare for an 'onslaught' as one of Asia's biggest slums reports first coronavirus death → https://is.gd/3HG7He | 13:52 |
| python47` | o/ | 13:52 |
| mefistofeles | https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate.html as I (and others here) suspected, more testing, less age and more beds in hospitals explains it, apparently | 14:02 |
| genera | what about mrse | 14:04 |
| python47` | o/ | 14:05 |
| mefistofeles | python47`: you may find this interesting, I'm repasting for you | 14:06 |
| mefistofeles | https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-death-rate.html as I (and others here) suspected, more testing, less age and more beds in hospitals explains it, apparently | 14:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica at 12:00 UTC: Staff: Subscription drive, day 5: Help keep the puns and pandemic news swirling — from r/WorldNews at 12:00: Doctors say India must prepare for an 'onslaught' as one of Asia's biggest slums reports first coronavirus death → https://is.gd/dARoHQ | 14:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:09 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: France has more cases than China now, but Spain's daily death toll has fallen — from r/WorldNews at 12:09: Doctors say India must prepare for an 'onslaught' as one of Asia's biggest slums reports first coronavirus death → https://is.gd/cdi8dt | 14:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:11 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: lockdown could ease by 'end of May' if public follow distancing rules — from r/WorldNews at 12:11: Doctors say India must prepare for an 'onslaught' as one of Asia's biggest slums reports first coronavirus death → https://is.gd/3HG7He | 14:24 |
| derjoschel | l | 14:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:37 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Medicina — from r/WorldNews at 12:37: The US has been accused of “modern piracy” after reportedly diverting a shipment of masks intended for the German police, and outbidding other countries in the increasingly fraught global market for coronavirus protective equipment. → https://is.gd/JY4ISY | 14:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:47 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: lockdown could ease by 'end of May' if public follow distancing rules [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/3HG7He | 14:53 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1026 cases (now 1135131), +52 deaths (now 60447), +87 recoveries (now 236086) since an hour ago — Netherlands: +904 cases (now 16627), +164 deaths (now 1651) since 2 hours ago — Portugal: +638 cases (now 10524), +20 deaths (now 266), +7 recoveries (now 75) since 2 hours ago | 14:54 |
| Hullo1 | Hello there | 15:02 |
| mefistofeles | quiet channel today :P | 15:02 |
| mefistofeles | hey Hullo1 | 15:02 |
| Hullo1 | mefistofeles, With everyone working from home, one would expect much more activity here :p | 15:03 |
| Hullo1 | mefistofeles, US? | 15:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:02 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: France has more cases than China now, but Spain's daily death toll has fallen [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/cdi8dt | 15:06 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: 'Sell one of your three yachts!': Outrage as billionaire Sir Philip Green asks for taxpayer help to pay emergency wages to 14,500 workers he has furloughed (11723 votes) | https://redd.it/furx8f | 15:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:07 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Regno Unito — from r/WorldNews at 13:07: The US has been accused of “modern piracy” after reportedly diverting a shipment of masks intended for the German police, and outbidding other countries in the increasingly fraught global market for coronavirus protective equipment. → https://is.gd/4R879X | 15:10 |
| Biep[m] | One positive thing: we are getting rid of all that negativity in the world. More and more people are confirmed to be positive. | 15:13 |
| Hullo1 | lol | 15:14 |
| Hullo1 | Well, pollution levels are down in many locations of the planet | 15:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:13 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna — from r/WorldNews at 13:13: The US has been accused of “modern piracy” after reportedly diverting a shipment of masks intended for the German police, and outbidding other countries in the increasingly fraught global market for coronavirus protective equipment. → https://is.gd/fXT2Ox | 15:18 |
| mefistofeles | Hullo1: not from the US, no | 15:19 |
| Hullo1 | mefistofeles, I merely tried to guess from your CTCP response :p | 15:20 |
| mefistofeles | Hullo1: yeah, noticed that | 15:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:17 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia — from r/WorldNews at 13:17: The US has been accused of “modern piracy” after reportedly diverting a shipment of masks intended for the German police, and outbidding other countries in the increasingly fraught global market for coronavirus protective equipment. → https://is.gd/yPvfzq | 15:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +4199 cases (now 1139330), +714 deaths (now 61161), +71 recoveries (now 236157) since 39 minutes ago — United Kingdom: +3735 cases (now 41903), +708 deaths (now 4313) since 2 hours ago — Netherlands: +904 cases (now 16627), +164 deaths (now 1651) since 2 hours ago | 15:24 |
| adventurer | if it lives on surfaces for a period of time and you get stuffed delivered and don't touch it until after that period of time then hopefully you'd be ok | 15:26 |
| adventurer | you could do that with non-perishable food | 15:26 |
| adventurer | to try to reduce the risk right down | 15:26 |
| aldwich | for fruit and veg, i buy packaged, not loose items. but does anyone wipe down all the packaging after bringing it back from the shop? | 15:27 |
| adventurer | I saw a doctor saying to do that | 15:28 |
| adventurer | i think i'd prefer to leave it for some period then touch it | 15:28 |
| adventurer | man i have become a germphobe | 15:28 |
| aldwich | lol - same here | 15:28 |
| adventurer | well that's what they say thatit lives on surfaces | 15:28 |
| adventurer | well not lives | 15:29 |
| adventurer | but | 15:29 |
| adventurer | whatever | 15:29 |
| aldwich | yes, ite virus can survive on a surface but i understand that the risk of transmission that way is very low, granted, it's not zero, but much lower than other forms of exposure, for example not socially distancing | 15:30 |
| Timvde | adventurer: I'm doing exactly that | 15:32 |
| Timvde | Got a package (a game), put it in the corner and washed my hands, will only open it tomorrow | 15:32 |
| mefistofeles | Timvde: why not just wash it or disinfect it? | 15:33 |
| aldwich | or use dettol spray. that reminds me, will check whether it's on the shelves again, if not, can't really use soap and water | 15:34 |
| adventurer | i wish i could get food delivered from Coles or Woolworths | 15:34 |
| mefistofeles | aldwich: yes, it's unlikely, but not zero | 15:34 |
| Timvde | It's cardboard, and I don't really need it _now_ | 15:34 |
| mefistofeles | ok | 15:35 |
| Timvde | I should probably do the laundry instead of playing games | 15:35 |
| Timvde | (But I'm actually just on my computer and watching tv shows, what a surprise) | 15:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:34 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases continue to rise faster than other countries — from r/WorldNews at 13:34: Spanish hotel owner turns resort into haven for refugees and the homeless during coronavirus crisis, laid off staff voluntarily continue to work without pay → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 15:39 |
| mefistofeles | Timvde: Iç m preparing a presentation, bit tedious :/ | 15:43 |
| mefistofeles | but trying to automatize stuff makes it a bit less boring | 15:43 |
| aldwich | if Watford General is suffering under the strain already, this hardly bodes well for NHS' capacity. hope i'm wrong | 15:44 |
| Timvde | mefistofeles: I hope a remote presentation? ;) | 15:47 |
| LjL | %tell Spec: https://twitter.com/Josh_H/status/1245704916859002880 map of staying at home based on cellphone locations | 16:02 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I'll pass Spec[x] aka Spec your message when they are around. | 16:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 14:05 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: New York [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8CKSSf | 16:07 |
| aradesh | LjL: do you think there are signs your country is managing to get the r-coefficient below 1? | 16:11 |
| LjL | aradesh, close to 1, but below, no, i don't think so | 16:11 |
| LjL | or at least it's very much unclear | 16:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 14:09 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Arcuri : Battaglia non vinta. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/hkUzfZ | 16:12 |
| aradesh | so close to 1 is basically, it's not getting better or worse | 16:12 |
| aradesh | which isn't very good either | 16:12 |
| LjL | aradesh, it means the growth is linear | 16:12 |
| LjL | aradesh, it's much better than exponential because you don't need an every-growing number of resources in hospitals | 16:13 |
| aradesh | yeah | 16:13 |
| aradesh | that's true, but it means it's not going away | 16:13 |
| LjL | aradesh, spoilers: it's not going away | 16:13 |
| LjL | aradesh, but hey at least look at the doubling time graph at the bottom offloop.net/covid19/?default?Italy | 16:13 |
| LjL | with the right URL maybe | 16:14 |
| LjL | http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy | 16:14 |
| LjL | aradesh, also i'd need to look at the dates but i think it's "just" been a week since the lockdown was made somewhat serious | 16:15 |
| aradesh | what changes did they make to make it more serious? | 16:15 |
| aradesh | there are clearly a lot of people in my country sitll not taking it seriously. | 16:15 |
| LjL | aradesh, no working except for essential, raising the fines and actually checking somewhat more aggressively | 16:15 |
| aradesh | 708 more dead today in the UK | 16:17 |
| aradesh | but fewer positive cases | 16:17 |
| iz | the number of positive cases found each day in the usa keeps going up each day | 16:18 |
| aradesh | USA are doing very well at testing now | 16:19 |
| aradesh | much better than the UK | 16:19 |
| iz | not as a percentage of the population though | 16:20 |
| aldwich | aradesh: drive-through or drop in stations are available for a member of the public to get tested? | 16:20 |
| iz | usa also has almost 5x the people as the uk | 16:20 |
| aradesh | a man on the news right now telling us that if we can, leave packages and parcels for 24 hours before handling them, and clean food | 16:21 |
| aradesh | aldwich: it's mainly for NHS staff isn't it? | 16:21 |
| LjL | aradesh, the US are doing very well at testing... comparatively to how bad they were doing before | 16:21 |
| aradesh | haven't they done like > 1 million tests in total though? | 16:21 |
| iz | yeah, it's still not good compared to other countries | 16:21 |
| LjL | how many tests has the EU done in total? | 16:22 |
| aldwich | aradesh: yes, sorry, i was thinking of the US, not UK | 16:22 |
| LjL | (probably not that easy to figure out, given the ECDC site is useless) | 16:22 |
| aradesh | i just thought as in new york, they have about the same amount of deaths as the UK, but at least 3 times as many positive tests | 16:22 |
| iz | US has only done 181542 tests | 16:22 |
| aradesh | so i presumed their tests are much better than here | 16:22 |
| iz | that over a million number is trump bs | 16:22 |
| iz | https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html | 16:22 |
| aradesh | but they have more positive cases than that... | 16:22 |
| aradesh | almost 300,000 positive cases in the USA | 16:23 |
| aradesh | so they must have dhone at least 300,000 tests | 16:23 |
| iz | well, when you have +32k cases in a day | 16:23 |
| iz | that'll happen when the testing data is from yesterday and the cases number is current | 16:23 |
| iz | %cases usa | 16:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2000 cases (now 1141330), +47 deaths (now 61208), +371 recoveries (now 236528) since an hour ago — US: +1438 cases (now 278960), +42 deaths (now 7445), +310 recoveries (now 12593) since 3 hours ago — Netherlands: +904 cases (now 16627), +164 deaths (now 1651) since 3 hours ago | 16:24 |
| Brainstorm | iz: In all areas, US, there are 278960 cases, 7445 deaths (2.7% of cases), 12593 recoveries as of 7 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 16:24 |
| LjL | aradesh, i don't know, compare the graph at https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/testing-in-us.html with the one at https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/en/#box_10 | 16:24 |
| LjL | bleh not that one actually | 16:25 |
| LjL | https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/en/#box_6 | 16:25 |
| aradesh | oo. the labour party has finally got a new leader | 16:26 |
| mefistofeles | Timvde: haha yes, it is a remote presentation, of course | 16:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 14:26 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The Financial Times is now updating a chart on it's free coronavirus page which compares trajectories for the most significant subnational regions. — from r/WorldNews at 14:26: Coronavirus "baby boom" very unlikely, experts say → https://is.gd/460in8 | 16:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 14:29 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Coronavirus in Spain: Spanish government to extend state of alarm until April 26 | Politics | EL PAÍS in English — from r/WorldNews at 14:29: 800-plus foreign Jamaat workers found hiding in Delhi mosques, trigger Covid-19 alarm → https://is.gd/hgMPwA | 16:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:33 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: US cases continue to rise faster than other countries: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 16:36 |
| aldwich | looking at the graphic in the FT, looks like London is tracking Wuhan, possible peak in 2 week's time, ok not overly scientifc, just eye-balling the numbers | 16:36 |
| LjL | %title https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/coronavirus-turkey-spain-ventilators-medical-equipment-seized-a9447216.html | 16:39 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, the URL could not be loaded | 16:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +471 cases (now 1141801), +11 deaths (now 61219), +1964 recoveries (now 238492) since 22 minutes ago — Germany: +922 cases (now 92081), +24 deaths (now 1299), +1825 recoveries (now 26400) since 5 hours ago — Netherlands: +904 cases (now 16627), +164 deaths (now 1651) since 4 hours ago | 16:39 |
| LjL | Coronavirus: Turkey seizes hundreds of ventilators paid for by Spain in move 'bordering on criminality' ← at least the US is in good company | 16:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 14:37 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Georgia Governor's statewide order overrides local restrictions, will force beaches to reopen. — from r/WorldNews at 14:37: 800-plus foreign Jamaat workers found hiding in Delhi mosques, trigger Covid-19 alarm → https://is.gd/D7lFvo | 16:41 |
| LjL | ↑ and you wonder why the US cases are rising steeply? | 16:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 14:41 UTC: /u/slakmehl: A German Exception? Why the Country’s Coronavirus Death Rate Is Low - The New York Times → https://is.gd/nzxXPx | 16:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:43 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: NYC mayor pleads for medical help as US cases continue to rise: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 16:49 |
| CatButtes[m] | Ouch. That's the kind of shit that could get shots fired if it happens repeatedly | 16:53 |
| CatButtes[m] | Hell - that could get shots fired if Spain/The EU decide to make a point and try and recover the vents | 16:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:50 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: British death toll up by 20% to 4,313, with five-year-old among dead — from r/WorldNews at 14:50: Australian politicians launch brutal attack on the Chinese Communist Party for 'failing to contain the coronavirus'. → https://is.gd/3HG7He | 16:57 |
| LjL | CatButtes[m], doubtful... but there have been various reports of the US doing the same with masks destined to France and Spain, although now DHL is saying that it was a "glitch" | 16:59 |
| LjL | CatButtes[m], Turkey has the second biggest army in NATO after the US | 16:59 |
| Toadisattva | lol glitch | 17:00 |
| LjL | Spain firing shots would just get a lot more shots fired back, not very wise | 17:00 |
| Toadisattva | oops we accidently took that fat trump bribe | 17:00 |
| CatButtes[m] | I would still worry about things getting out of hand if people are feeling underpressure from populations that are starting to panic a little | 17:01 |
| LjL | "They take a blood test, looking for signs that a patient is about to go into a steep decline. They might suggest hospitalization, even to a patient who has only mild symptoms; the chances of surviving that decline are vastly improved by being in a hospital when it begins." ← it's just a paper saying this, but Germany dofinitely DOES seem to have low death rates | 17:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:03 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: New York — from r/WorldNews at 15:03: Australian politicians launch brutal attack on the Chinese Communist Party for 'failing to contain the coronavirus'. → https://is.gd/yXijRh | 17:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:04 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: NYC mayor pleads for medical help as US cases continue to rise: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 17:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1230 cases (now 1143031), +40 deaths (now 61259), +33 recoveries (now 238525) since 36 minutes ago — US: +1012 cases (now 280367), +40 deaths (now 7491), +27 recoveries (now 12756) since 36 minutes ago — Florida, US: +843 cases (now 11111), +21 deaths (now 191) since 5 hours ago | 17:09 |
| Albright | Thought exercise: Since the asymptomatic phase of this thing can be so long, what would happen if an asymptomatic infected person got sent up to the ISS? I'm sure they'd be fine since you have to be quite in good physical health to become an astronaut, but there's not really any way to socially distance in a satellite, is there? | 17:12 |
| LjL | that seems... a bit too much of just a thought exercise to me. they'd mostly likely infect everybody, and everybody might recover since they're all young and fit and stuff, although there's no guarantee of that. but more importantly, the asymptomatic person would be caught as they would be crazy not to run a PCR test on them before they take off | 17:14 |
| Albright | PCR? | 17:15 |
| LjL | %wik PCR test | 17:16 |
| LjL | "the" test. | 17:16 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: Polymerase chain reaction (PCR) is a method used widely in molecular biology to make millions to billions of copies of a specific DNA sample rapidly, allowing scientists to take a very small sample of DNA and amplify it to a large enough amount to study in detail. PCR was invented in 1983 by [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymerase_chain_reaction | 17:16 |
| aradesh | Albright: i think they'd end up just waiting it out until the ordinary scheduled shuttle flight came along. but if it infected other crew, and they started getting very ill, they might try to return them back to earht earlier than scheduled | 17:18 |
| aradesh | and i suspect given current climate, they'd test them before sending them up as LjL says | 17:18 |
| aradesh | interesting to note: america's bailout package for coronavirus lockdown could fund NASA for almost a century | 17:19 |
| Albright | Yeah… darn realism ruining my thought experiment. | 17:19 |
| LjL | if they contaminated the ISS that would be a disaster (for the space agencies, i recognize there is a much larger disaster here on earth) | 17:19 |
| Albright | On a semi-related note, I need to re-read The Martian some day. That book was a trip. | 17:19 |
| aradesh | maybe you could take a trip, and read it while travelling. | 17:21 |
| aradesh | once the virus is all over that is | 17:21 |
| Albright | Yeah, I was gonna say | 17:21 |
| LjL | so around three years from now? | 17:21 |
| aradesh | i remember when i went to the USA, i read george orwell's 1984 in its entirety because it was all i had on me, and i spent time on trains, waiting at airports, and on the plane | 17:22 |
| LjL | aradesh, if you read it "now" (well, before this) it might creep you out when you read it at the same time as having to file in an ESTA application and being checked by the TSA | 17:23 |
| Albright | I prefer Animal Farm. It's easier to read. Not sure if I can put into words why. | 17:23 |
| LjL | also body temperature cameras | 17:23 |
| Albright | Maybe less overtly miserable. | 17:23 |
| aradesh | i read animal farm too | 17:23 |
| aradesh | there is a lot of repeated ideas in animal farm, and 1984 | 17:24 |
| aradesh | feels like you're reading the other book, sometimes | 17:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +10717 cases (now 1153748), +410 deaths (now 61669), +1595 recoveries (now 240120) since 20 minutes ago — US: +10553 cases (now 290920), +353 deaths (now 7844), +1592 recoveries (now 14348) since 20 minutes ago — New York, US: +10228 cases (now 113704), +347 deaths (now 3565) since 20 minutes ago | 17:24 |
| LjL | %cases new york | 17:25 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In New York, US, there are 113704 cases, 3565 deaths (3.1% of cases), 0 recoveries as of 15 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 17:25 |
| Albright | The ending of Burmese Days reminded me of creative writing classes in high school and college where every other story ends with "and then the main character kills themself the end" | 17:25 |
| Albright | (Spoiler I guess) | 17:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:20 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Michael Gove leads daily briefing as UK death toll rises 20% — from r/WorldNews at 15:20: Australian politicians launch brutal attack on the Chinese Communist Party for 'failing to contain the coronavirus'. → https://is.gd/3HG7He | 17:27 |
| Biep[m] | <aradesh "Albright: i think they'd end up "> Yes - you'd have to wait outside the ISS. | 17:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:30 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: La conferenza stampa della Protezione Civile inizierà alle 18 — from r/WorldNews at 15:30: Australian politicians launch brutal attack on the Chinese Communist Party for 'failing to contain the coronavirus'. → https://is.gd/ufUNk1 | 17:35 |
| aradesh | Biep[m]: lol. no, inside the ISS xD | 17:36 |
| aradesh | they'd just wait and hope everyone recovers, or if anyone got seriously ill, bring them home early | 17:36 |
| Biep[m] | Social distancing would still make either you or them have to move outside - and I guess you'd be on the losing end there. | 17:38 |
| Biep[m] | Hmm, no "space", "ISS", "UFO" emojis. | 17:38 |
| Biep[m] | 🚀 | 17:38 |
| Albright | 🌌 | 17:39 |
| Biep[m] | What emoji is that? Nothing with "star", "heaven" or "sky". | 17:40 |
| Albright | The Milky Way. | 17:41 |
| Biep[m] | Something like "balloons"? | 17:41 |
| bin_bash | don't use emojis on irc please | 17:41 |
| Biep[m] | Yes, indeed. Wow! | 17:41 |
| aradesh | milky way chocolate bar | 17:42 |
| Biep[m] | <bin_bash "don't use emojis on irc please"> I am on matrix, writing in a matrix group. A rule like that ought to be in the bridge. | 17:42 |
| aradesh | milky ways are nice https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/milkyway-chocolate-bar-picture-id458687423 | 17:42 |
| Biep[m] | 🍫 | 17:42 |
| LjL | there is no such written rule on IRC either | 17:43 |
| Biep[m] | Does IRC explode, or is it just something unreadable? In the former case I'd adapt my posting behaviour.. | 17:43 |
| LjL | although i do find emojis and all those symbols are very... punchy, compared to the text | 17:43 |
| bin_bash | Biep[m]: it really messes with some people who use CLI clients | 17:43 |
| LjL | which may not be ideal outside on a 1-vs-1 chat | 17:43 |
| bin_bash | so in genral it's considered bad etiquette | 17:43 |
| genera | move fast, break things (tm) | 17:43 |
| dunnp | looks just fine in irssi | 17:44 |
| aldwich | same for weechat | 17:44 |
| bin_bash | dunnp: depends on the emulator and some unicode versions as well | 17:44 |
| dunnp | guess so | 17:44 |
| bin_bash | there are known wcwidth issues on legacy systems. | 17:44 |
| LjL | i believe some people have scripts on their IRC clients to strip out the emojis. i would still try to limit their use to when it's reasonable, but given Unicode has decided to concentrate more on fancy pictures than actual world scripts, i cannot really expect people not to use them | 17:45 |
| bin_bash | it's not that big of a deal to ask people not to use them but whatever. none of the things i requested were a big deal but all of them have been shut down so i dont expect much | 17:45 |
| bin_bash | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 17:46 |
| LjL | i'm not a fan of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ either, lots of characters for one smiley, and katakana ツ may cause glitches on certain terminals :P | 17:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:41 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: NYC mayor pleads for medical help as US cases continue to rise: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 17:47 |
| LjL | i'd say to use all sorts of things sparingly and not in a gratuitous or spammy way... just like bot commands | 17:47 |
| LjL | %title https://twitter.com/higginsdavidw/status/1241821694387519491?lang=en :\ | 17:49 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From twitter.com: David W. Higgins on Twitter: "It gets even more shocking when you look at Lombardy. Typical daily deaths are ~272. Yesterday 546 died from COVID-19 which means *three* times as many died as normally [...] | 17:49 |
| LjL | that's for the "it's just a flu" crowd | 17:51 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: seems a bit weird that plot, specially the typical daily deaths | 17:54 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, things are more complicated than that, EuroMoMo uses much more complicated methods to "spot" unusual deaths | 17:54 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, yes, you average and use that, but the covid-19 deaths are not neccesarily extra or exclusive from the typical daily deaths, if you want to be precise | 17:54 |
| LjL | but this gives a clearly impactful metric of what's normal, and what's not quite so normal | 17:54 |
| jacklsw | what character is this: ツ | 17:54 |
| LjL | jacklsw, katakana tsu | 17:55 |
| LjL | %u ツ | 17:55 |
| Brainstorm | U+30C4 KATAKANA LETTER TU (ツ) | 17:55 |
| jacklsw | i see a box with 0000 | 17:55 |
| jacklsw | ok it's katakana | 17:55 |
| mefistofeles | jacklsw: oh, you don'thae unicode setup correctly, probably | 17:55 |
| mefistofeles | *have | 17:55 |
| jacklsw | i didn't install japanese unicodes | 17:56 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, in reality deaths vary throughout the year in somewhat complicated patterns, but that's taking the average daily deaths in past years (which i can confirm are at least realistic), and just adding the ascertained COVID-19 deaths. that doesn't tell you the things that EuroMoMo tells you, because it's "hiding" deaths that are only indirectly due to COVID-19, and at the same time, ignoring potential reductions in mortality due to the lockdowns. | 17:58 |
| LjL | but it tells you that on the worst days (and the graph stops before the worst), COVID-19 deaths alone are a fair bit more than the daily expected deaths | 17:58 |
| LjL | which isn't really surprising, when you know crematoriums can't keep up with the rate of bodies to burn | 17:59 |
| LjL | but then some people still come in and claim there's barely an effect | 17:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:47 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Trump touts unproven drug as Cuomo says New York is nearing apex — from r/WorldNews at 15:47: Even if you test negative for COVID-19, assume you have it, experts say: Conventional diagnostic tests for the novel coronavirus may give false-negative results about 30% of the time → https://is.gd/7mtTid | 17:59 |
| ThomCat[m] | Wouldn't the more accurate (but more time consuming) baseline be to deaths per specific date over the past 30-50 years? | 18:02 |
| ThomCat[m] | * Wouldn't the more accurate (but more time consuming) baseline be to get deaths per specific date over the past 30-50 years? | 18:02 |
| ThomCat[m] | I.E. On average, how many people die on February 15th over the last 30 years | 18:02 |
| LjL | Lombardy's numbers: +1598 new cases, 6826 tests made, +345 deaths for a total 8656. ICUs down -55, total 1326. | 18:03 |
| LjL | ThomCat[m], going back *so* long is probably unadvisable, deaths rates may have changed a lot and not be representative of modern numbers | 18:04 |
| ThomCat[m] | It definitely doesn't take population growth into account though. | 18:04 |
| ThomCat[m] | Right, maybe do deaths/100,000 people | 18:04 |
| LjL | ThomCat[m], well as i said, EuroMoMo does much more complex analyses, that take many of these things into account. but they are also much harder to read and understand. | 18:04 |
| ThomCat[m] | That's fair, I've just jumped into the conversation and done all of 5 minutes thinking about it, I'm sure they've done much more extensive analysis 🙂 | 18:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:58 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: NYC mayor pleads for medical help as US cases continue to rise: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 18:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1783 cases (now 1155657) since 32 minutes ago — Lombardia, Italy: +1598 cases (now 49118), +345 deaths (now 8656), +222 recoveries (now 13242) since a day ago — Piemonte, Italy: +813 cases (now 11709), +85 deaths (now 1128), +165 recoveries (now 888) since a day ago | 18:05 |
| LjL | Apparently, Lombardy governor Fontana said "Starting tomorrow, people who are outdoors in Lombardy will wear masks". This is just from a RAI headline currently on TV, though, so I don't know whether he's making them mandatory or what's he even thinking | 18:06 |
| LjL | Italy's daily Civil Protection press conference starting now at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRjoUcOpLo4 and I'll be taking notes here as usual. | 18:11 |
| LjL | Good evening. Thanks to Professor Locatelli, from ISS, who is here today. | 18:12 |
| LjL | 88274 currently positive, +2886 since yesterday. | 18:12 |
| LjL | 3984 are in ICU, and I want to remind you that today, for the first time, we have a very important data point: the number of ICU patients goes down -75. This is important because it allows our hospitals to "take abreath", and it's the first time this number is negative. | 18:13 |
| LjL | People hospitalized with symptoms are 29010, while most of the positives, 52270, are at home in self-isolation. | 18:13 |
| LjL | Unfortunately, +681 new deaths, but this value is constantly reducing; on March 26 we reached a peak with +969. | 18:13 |
| LjL | 20996 total recoveries, +1238. | 18:14 |
| LjL | 114 patients have been transfered from Lombardy, 75 with COVID-19, 40 are other patients. 38 were transferred to German ICU beds, and we thank Germany again for this. | 18:14 |
| LjL | As of today we have 17363 volunteers, still growing. | 18:14 |
| LjL | There are 811 pre-triage tents outside of hospitals, and 151 in prisons. | 18:15 |
| ecks | so +4,805 today? | 18:15 |
| ecks | not great, not terrible | 18:15 |
| LjL | We have obtained €105.5 million in donations. | 18:15 |
| LjL | I'd also like to remind you 13 doctors and 17 paramedics have arrived from the Ukraine, who will operate in the region of Marche. | 18:16 |
| LjL | We also received a large equipment donation from Egypt, so I'd like to thank these countries, which add to the others who have shown generosity towards our country. | 18:16 |
| LjL | Now, Dr. Locatelli. | 18:16 |
| LjL | (Locatelli) It would be easy to start talking about the largely encouraging data Dr Borrelli mentioned about decreases in ICU use and deaths. | 18:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:13 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: AGGIORNAMENTO 04/04/2020 ORE 17.00 | POSITIVI AL nCov Beene Totale | DIMESSI/ attualmente | GUARITI positivi 12.002 | 1.326 13.892 27.220 141.877 Emilia Romagna 3859 358 8306 12.523 67.075 Piemonte 3.441 450 5.802 9,693 37.181 Veneto 1691 324 7078 9.093 133.289 Toscana 1129 286 3639 5.054 47.886 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/A4UDVc | 18:18 |
| LjL | But it's like to start and end today with two remarks. Today one of PM Conte's personal guards died, and I want to mention this as police forces are another category having an important role together with medical workers. This emergency situation has highlighted these people who work so hard for this country. | 18:18 |
| LjL | The Minister of Health Speranza as well as Commissioner Arcuri reminded everyone how important it is to respect social distancing rules, which are the best strategy to contain contagion. The Mayor of Milan has also highlighted that there is an increase in population movement. We must all be warned that behaviors with a high sense of responsibility are the only way we have to honor the memory of our fellow citizens who died. | 18:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +5028 cases (now 1160685), +715 deaths (now 62419), +1429 recoveries (now 241630) since 16 minutes ago — Italy: +4805 cases (now 124632), +681 deaths (now 15362), +1238 recoveries (now 20996) since 47 minutes ago — Emilia-Romagna, Italy: +608 cases (now 16540), +75 deaths (now 1977), +188 recoveries (now 2040) since a day ago | 18:20 |
| LjL | Looking at the numbers from March 27 up to today, so in 9 days, we went down from more than 120 ICU admissions to a negative number, -74, so we have 74 sick people who are no longer in ICU beds since yesterday. The number of deceased has also gone down from +970 to +680, so this confirms what Dr Borrelli said, but once again, the strong message must be heard that this must not at all be read as a message that the critical phase is over, the danger is over: | 18:21 |
| LjL | nothing is over, this is just the demonstration that what we've done has helped. | 18:21 |
| jacklsw | coffin dance meme is trending nowadays | 18:21 |
| jacklsw | quarantine time more ideas for memes | 18:22 |
| LjL | I've also talked yesterday about the important role of clinical studies in our countries, and I will try to give you some data to detail what I said yesterday: since March 17, about 53 study/trial proposals have been evaluated, and 8 of them have been approved, and consequently, after obtaining the ethical committee's approval, they have begun recruiting patients. | 18:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:19 UTC: /u/The_Fadge: Lombardia — from r/WorldNews at 16:19: NHS worker quit when she was stopped from wearing face mask | Tracy Brennan chastised superiors at hospitals trust for making her remove mask she had bought herself → https://is.gd/ZBYpPk | 18:24 |
| LjL | 9 studies were presented yesterday which will be rapidly evaluated, but let me remark again how the pharmacological agency AIFA is crucial for conducting studies rigorously: 17 proposals have failed to be approved due to lacking a solid rationale. This shows how serious and rigorous the approach is. Remaining proposals were either withdrawn, or clarifications have been requested. | 18:24 |
| LjL | I'll also spend some words about evaluating face masks proposals: a message may have been sent that needs to be corrected. There is no bottleneck penalizing production of masks, and the ISS (I think Prof. Brusaferro for these days) has analyzed more that 250 proposals, 73 of which were approved for production, and 2 were authorized for putting them into the market. | 18:25 |
| LjL | Again, the agency tasked with evaluating this, in this case the ISS together with INAL, is doing all they can to provide an answer to the problem of producing masks nationally. | 18:25 |
| LjL | I will close with another remark about humanity: it's not just because I am from Bergamo, but I'd like to share with the whole country the unique experience I've lived when I went to Bergamo a few days ago and saw how many extraordinary things the Alpini and the volunteers from Confartigianato achieved: they turned the Fair of Bergamo into a perfectly organized makeshift hospital, which will accept patients starting from Monday, reducing the load on | 18:27 |
| LjL | Bergamo's main hospital. The same goes for the hospital created in Milan's Fair. | 18:27 |
| LjL | This is a further example of how a profoundly wounded territory has allowed its best assertive forces to emerge, to respond cohesively in a way that can help those who need it. This is the best part of our country, which must make us all be proud of being Italian. | 18:28 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Before we move to questions, let me also mention Giorgio: my condolensces to his family. | 18:28 |
| mefistofeles | who's Giorgio? | 18:28 |
| dzho | was this the PM's guard who died? | 18:29 |
| LjL | Q: Without trying to force out data that don't exist, I'd like to understand your parameters approximately... What levels must we reach to be able to release some of the measures, and resume some economical activities? | 18:29 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, personal guard of the PM who died from COVID i believe | 18:29 |
| mefistofeles | ah ok | 18:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 16:22 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Trump touts unproven drug as Cuomo says New York is nearing apex — from r/WorldNews at 16:22: NHS worker quit when she was stopped from wearing face mask | Tracy Brennan chastised superiors at hospitals trust for making her remove mask she had bought herself → https://is.gd/7mtTid | 18:30 |
| LjL | A: You've heard us talk about the R0 index, which we had as a goal to lower around 1. We have reached that value, but now we want to go further: we must reduce R0 below 1, to have evidence that epidemic diffusion has stopped, at least in terms of daily increment, but hopefully it will even decline. | 18:30 |
| LjL | It's worth noting how in regions of Central and Southern Italy, the entire healthcare system has been able to contain the growth of infected people requiring ICU beds, and more tragically, those who died, and this result was not to be taken for granted. It must be highlighted as further demonstrating the efficacy of containment measures... I do realize I am repeating myself, but they must NOT be relaxed. | 18:31 |
| LjL | Many of my colleagues have already said that we'll have to live "together" with the COVID-19 infection for a few more months, and obviously the goal is to reduce the number, and all polices that will be implemented in terms of restarting work activities or releasing social containment measures, while they will be taken by the politicians, they will have to gradually allow the economy to restart gradually, while evaluating epidemiological data, both daily | 18:32 |
| LjL | numerical evidence and projection models based on serology. | 18:32 |
| LjL | Q: We want the threshold to get below R0=1...? | 18:33 |
| LjL | A: Yes, otherwise we won't completely stop the epidemic. | 18:33 |
| LjL | Q: How can we start a reasoning...? | 18:33 |
| LjL | A: A reasoning has already begun, as planning is an important part of the orientation the scientific committee providing as a guideline for what the political decisions will be, in terms of measures and timing. | 18:33 |
| LjL | Q: I'd like to ask Dr Locatelli whether there is evidence that the recovered people have gained immunity, but also, the news make me need to ask about Lombardy, there is an ordnance that people can only go outside with a face mask or by otherwise covering their face. Is there scientific evidence backing this? | 18:34 |
| LjL | A: (Borrelli) I said yesterday, and I can say it again today, that I don't use a mask because I respect social distancing rules. Masks are important if those are not respected, but Prof. Locatelli will explain better. | 18:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2307 cases (now 1162992), +77 recoveries (now 241707) since 19 minutes ago — US: +1936 cases (now 293481) since 19 minutes ago — Pennsylvania, US: +1597 cases (now 10017) since 19 minutes ago | 18:35 |
| LjL | (Locatelli) I'll try to answer both questions... So, infection by SARS-COV-2 appeared on the international scene a relatively short time ago, 3 1/2 months at most. We know that people who were exposed to the virus develop an antibody response, and there also a "cell-mediated" response, which is the other big part of our immune system. We give the most value to neutralizing antibodies, because those protect the most against the virus. How long this immune | 18:36 |
| LjL | response lasts in time is something we don't know, it will have to be studied. | 18:36 |
| LjL | On using masks, there is a lot of debate within the scientific community itself, because it's a topic where we have no very strong evidence on what you were commenting on. We know that masks are useful to prevent contagion by a subject who already hosts the virus, and in a logic where we assume there are some asymptomatic people who can infect, masks can certainly be useful... but the fundamental measure is respecting social distancing. | 18:37 |
| dzho | oh my goodness so good to see this point | 18:38 |
| LjL | Any thoughts on using masks on a wider basis are currently an object of evaluation by the scientific committee; but directions on using masks by healthcare workers and infected people are the same as before. | 18:38 |
| LjL | Q: I seem to understand that you do not feel like extending these measures to other parts of the country? | 18:38 |
| LjL | A: At this time we certainly didn't indicate that. | 18:38 |
| LjL | Q: A question for both of you: measures that are taken within this department must be respected by us, and I hope everyone follows the rules, but I have to submit a particular case: it is a documented case on a foreign 19-year-old person who died, while he was hosted by a family, which did not initially know the cause of death, which was communicated to the other family a few days later. When they inquired with the reference hospital, they asked to make a | 18:40 |
| LjL | PCR test. How is it possible that a hospital receiving a COVID-19 patient does not notify the family who has hosted him for three months?! | 18:40 |
| LjL | A: (Borrelli) I'll answer, then maybe Prof. Locatelli wants to add something. I don't know this event, but it's clear it must be analyzed and understood, because if things went this way, it's obvious something went wrong in the evaluation. I will see it through. | 18:41 |
| LjL | Q: Aside from studying the curve, is there a chance to understand whether the new positives, like today's one for instance, would those be people who got infected recently, or before the containment measures started? Have you been studying this aspect: "who are" the people who are still getting infected? | 18:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:34 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: NYC mayor pleads for medical help as US cases continue to rise: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 18:42 |
| LjL | A: (Locatelli) We cannot give such a granular analysis of the people who turned out positive on the test, but we can try to interpret things: we do a lot of tests in our country, which is an important data point to highlight because sometimes people have the impression we aren't testing a lot, but we did more than 650k tests. Let's remember there is an incubation period before an individual gets tested. It's obvious the social distancing and lockdown | 18:44 |
| LjL | measures implemented across the country have very markedly reduced contagion, without them we'd have had an exponential growth of infected and also deceased people; just as obviously, intra-family infections and infections in nursing homes are also a reason we still have infected subject. | 18:44 |
| LjL | Today, Commissioner Arcuri defined himself as "begging" people to respect the rules: going into the streets, gathering us, that's certainly not something good for individuals or for society. Protecting yourselves means protecting everybody else. | 18:44 |
| LjL | Q: When will serology begin, and have you choosen a test? But also speaking of exponential growth, which was occurring when government decided to lock down... do you have a sense of how many people would have died without that? | 18:45 |
| LjL | A: An authoritative study claims at least 30000 people have been saved, their deaths avoided. But let me give more data to show how the whole dynamics changed within 9 days: on March 27 we had 12% more deaths than the previous day, while today it's 5%. I already mentioned the bare numbers. We had +3% ICU admission, today it's -2%. Total hospitalizations went from +5% to +1% today. These figures speak for themselves. | 18:47 |
| LjL | About the choice of a serology test, we have not done that yet, as we want to have very sensitive and specific data. I want to tell the country very clearly that these studies will start soon, and aside from the choice of a diagnostic test, there is a whole organization and procedural definition of the sample size and methodology, meaning how to define the population that must be investigated, how to obtain the blood sample and transfer it to the labs... | 18:48 |
| LjL | in the most agile way to obtain this very important evaluation of how the virus circulates, and what the actual fatality rate is. | 18:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 16:39 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: PM's fiancee Carrie Symonds self-isolating with symptoms — from r/WorldNews at 16:39: Chinese researchers isolated deadly bat coronaviruses near Wuhan animal market → https://is.gd/3HG7He | 18:48 |
| LjL | This will also inform political deciders on cautiously relaxing social distancing measures and restarting activities. | 18:48 |
| LjL | Q: Are you interacting with doctors from other European countries, like Germany and Sweden? In Berlin, people are being mass sampled, and it appears that way cases can be diagnosed 2 days before they become critical. Then I'm curious: why are we still sending patients to Germany when we have free beds in Italy now? | 18:49 |
| LjL | A: We accepted Germany's offer and we thank them... we accepted their offer when our country was critical, and since now we are changing to negative numbers, we are considering moving patients internally to Lombardy now. But this whole "Cross" system has allowed to lighten the load on ICU wards. | 18:50 |
| mefistofeles | don't want to admit they do a better job in Germany's ICUs :P | 18:51 |
| LjL | (Locatelli) I'll answer the first question, and I thank you for letting me share with the whole country the fact that Dr Ranieri Guerra, our WHO representative, and the ISS director, had a teleconference with their German counterparts, and they exchanged information usefully to bring us information on optimizing the approach on how to conduct serology tests. Scientific exchange is crucial in medicine, especially in such situations. | 18:52 |
| LjL | Creating a territorial management with "digital health" services will allow managing home patients better. | 18:52 |
| LjL | Q: We have said that R0 went near 1, which is important, but how will we prevent this number from rising again and losing our results when we relax the measures? And about the serology tests you talked about yesterday with the ISS, many Italian regions have already started on their own; will those data be useful or will they not be compatible with the ones you seek? | 18:53 |
| LjL | A: As to your first question, I want to note that R0 was around 3 during the first days of the epidemic. It's obvious that individual responsibility measures will be crucial to keep, and lower, this number, but what we expect is that, since extremely well-pondered choices will be made, we won't ever face values like what we had initially, although there might be local clusters, but what we're doing is creating a system for monitoring these local clusters | 18:54 |
| LjL | and introducing correcting measures to immediately stop them. | 18:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:48 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: NYC mayor pleads for medical help as US cases continue to rise: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 18:54 |
| LjL | I'm sorry, I missed... We do want to propose a strategy to conduct with the regions; all those people who will handle these studies want to work with the regions, I want to spell this out clearly, and what we define on the scientific committee should find full cooperation with the regions. Now is not the time for competition or a "race" to finding the best test... it's the time to work cohesively together. | 18:55 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Thank you everyone. | 18:56 |
| LjL | --- end | 18:56 |
| aldwich | LjL: many thanks for the translation! | 18:57 |
| IronY | Queen is speaking at 3pm EST? | 18:58 |
| IronY | we are saved! | 18:58 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 18:59 |
| LjL | so it's confirmed, compulsory face covering in Lombardy to enter public spaces | 19:00 |
| LjL | also, ATM (Milan's public transport company) is evaluating programming the turnstiles to only allow a limited number of people inside the metro at a time | 19:01 |
| aldwich | was very interesting to get an estimate for their starting value of R0 around 3 | 19:04 |
| LjL | edited transcription: Lombardy's numbers: +1598 new cases, 6826 tests made, +345 deaths for a total 8656. ICUs down -55, total 1326. | 19:04 |
| LjL | Apparently, Lombardy governor Fontana said "Starting tomorrow, people who are outdoors in Lombardy will wear masks". This is just from a RAI headline currently on TV, though, so I don't know whether he's making them mandatory or what's he even thinking | 19:04 |
| LjL | Source: https://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2020/04/04/news/coronavirus_lombardia_aggiornamenti_ordinanza_regole_mascherine-253134766/ | 19:04 |
| LjL | Also, ATM (Milan's public transport company) is evaluating programming the turnstiles to only allow a limited number of people inside each metro train. | 19:04 |
| LjL | Source: https://milano.repubblica.it/cronaca/2020/04/04/news/coronavirus_milano_trasporti_atm_bilancio_comune-253086384/ | 19:04 |
| LjL | Transcription of today's Italy's daily Civil Protection press conference at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRjoUcOpLo4 | 19:05 |
| LjL | Good evening. Thanks to Professor Locatelli, from ISS, who is here today. | 19:05 |
| LjL | 88274 currently positive, +2886 since yesterday. | 19:05 |
| LjL | 3984 are in ICU, and I want to remind you that today, for the first time, we have a very important data point: the number of ICU patients goes down -75. This is important because it allows our hospitals to "take abreath", and it's the first time this number is negative. | 19:05 |
| LjL | People hospitalized with symptoms are 29010, while most of the positives, 52270, are at home in self-isolation. | 19:05 |
| LjL | Unfortunately, +681 new deaths, but this value is constantly reducing; on March 26 we reached a peak with +969. | 19:05 |
| LjL | 20996 total recoveries, +1238. | 19:05 |
| LjL | 114 patients have been transfered from Lombardy, 75 with COVID-19, 40 are other patients. 38 were transferred to German ICU beds, and we thank Germany again for this. | 19:05 |
| LjL | As of today we have 17363 volunteers, still growing. | 19:05 |
| LjL | There are 811 pre-triage tents outside of hospitals, and 151 in prisons. | 19:05 |
| LjL | We have obtained €105.5 million in donations. | 19:05 |
| LjL | I'd also like to remind you 13 doctors and 17 paramedics have arrived from the Ukraine, who will operate in the region of Marche. | 19:05 |
| LjL | We also received a large equipment donation from Egypt, so I'd like to thank these countries, which add to the others who have shown generosity towards our country. | 19:05 |
| LjL | Now, Dr. Locatelli. | 19:05 |
| LjL | (Locatelli) It would be easy to start talking about the largely encouraging data Dr Borrelli mentioned about decreases in ICU use and deaths. | 19:05 |
| LjL | But it's like to start and end today with two remarks. Today one of PM Conte's personal guards died, and I want to mention this as police forces are another category having an important role together with medical workers. This emergency situation has highlighted these people who work so hard for this country. | 19:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +7027 cases (now 1170019), +286 deaths (now 62750), +63 recoveries (now 241770) since 31 minutes ago — US: +6511 cases (now 299992), +241 deaths (now 8137), +59 recoveries (now 14464) since 31 minutes ago — New Jersey, US: +4229 cases (now 34124), +200 deaths (now 846) since 49 minutes ago | 19:05 |
| LjL | The Minister of Health Speranza as well as Commissioner Arcuri reminded everyone how important it is to respect social distancing rules, which are the best strategy to contain contagion. The Mayor of Milan has also highlighted that there is an increase in population movement. We must all be warned that behaviors with a high sense of responsibility are the only way we have to honor the memory of our fellow citizens who died. | 19:05 |
| LjL | Looking at the numbers from March 27 up to today, so in 9 days, we went down from more than 120 ICU admissions to a negative number, -74, so we have 74 sick people who are no longer in ICU beds since yesterday. The number of deceased has also gone down from +970 to +680, so this confirms what Dr Borrelli said, but once again, the strong message must be heard that this must not at all be read as a message that the critical phase is over, the danger is over: | 19:06 |
| LjL | nothing is over, this is just the demonstration that what we've done has helped. | 19:06 |
| LjL | I've also talked yesterday about the important role of clinical studies in our countries, and I will try to give you some data to detail what I said yesterday: since March 17, about 53 study/trial proposals have been evaluated, and 8 of them have been approved, and consequently, after obtaining the ethical committee's approval, they have begun recruiting patients. | 19:06 |
| LjL | ahem. sorry. | 19:08 |
| LjL | what i *meant* to paste was https://dpaste.org/KGTC | 19:08 |
| LjL | Italy is going "well" but Lombardy's daily case count is increasing | 19:11 |
| LjL | Turin seems to be having a spike today | 19:12 |
| dunnp | looks like NY will pass all of italy in a day or so | 19:12 |
| dunnp | can't imagine how they will handle all the people | 19:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:06 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA supera 300 mila contagi accertati. — from r/WorldNews at 17:06: World Health Organisation reverses course, now supports wearing face masks in public → https://is.gd/QLTZD0 | 19:13 |
| dunnp | talking about using ice skating rinks to store bodies... damn | 19:13 |
| Blankspace | When will the lockdown stop | 19:15 |
| Blankspace | When will the vaccines be available . | 19:16 |
| genera | oh wow 38 patients moved to germany. i thought it was more like 2 or 3 | 19:16 |
| LjL | dunnp, they've already passed Lombardy per capita | 19:16 |
| mefistofeles | genera: it used to be that | 19:16 |
| LjL | cases, not deaths | 19:16 |
| LjL | Blankspace, simply, we don't know. | 19:17 |
| mefistofeles | vaccines = not soon, several months still, most likely | 19:17 |
| dunnp | july/august? 2021? | 19:18 |
| dunnp | i really need to improve my home daily routine | 19:18 |
| dunnp | plan was to workout every day and it has degraded to barely moving | 19:19 |
| mefistofeles | dunnp: haha | 19:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 17:08 UTC: Coronavirus latest: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak — from r/WorldNews at 17:08: World Health Organisation reverses course, now supports wearing face masks in public → https://is.gd/TLqc5m | 19:19 |
| dunnp | staying up too late, not getting dressed etc | 19:19 |
| mefistofeles | yes, slacking of is common in these situations | 19:20 |
| dunnp | didnt realize it was Saturday until I started doing some work and checked my calendar | 19:20 |
| mefistofeles | off* | 19:20 |
| mefistofeles | haha | 19:20 |
| LjL | so the WHO is now saying to wear masks in public? | 19:20 |
| Blankspace | No country is pioneer in microbiology | 19:20 |
| LjL | which studies are they citing for that this time? the same as when they said not to, i.e. none? | 19:20 |
| LjL | "Surgical masks should still be reserved for medical professionals with the general population using home-made face coverings, global health agency says" | 19:21 |
| mefistofeles | is "manditory" (with an 'i') accepted? | 19:21 |
| LjL | didn't we think home-made masks could make things worse? | 19:21 |
| LjL | never saw that | 19:21 |
| dzho | I think this is driven by the realization that the virus can be shed for significant time by those who have no symptoms | 19:21 |
| LjL | but the word comes from mandatus, with an a | 19:21 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, type in the docs of this software, probably | 19:21 |
| dunnp | LjL: there was a rumor early on that the moisture from masks made it more likely you'd catch it | 19:21 |
| mefistofeles | typo* | 19:21 |
| mefistofeles | made a typo in typo xD | 19:22 |
| dzho | N95 masks protect the wearer, other masks protect everybody else *from* the wearer | 19:22 |
| dzho | to an extent, of course | 19:22 |
| dunnp | ^ | 19:22 |
| dunnp | but can't buy anything like a mask on amazon anymore | 19:22 |
| dunnp | bandanas are all gone | 19:22 |
| LjL | dunnp, yeah, a rumor, and also a lot of insistence from the WHO that the general public should NOT wear them. i had a bit of an argument on this yesterday. | 19:22 |
| dzho | there is a danger that people think the masks make it ok to ignore other measures | 19:22 |
| LjL | have you considered there might have been a danger in telling people not to wear them until now? | 19:23 |
| LjL | because i look at the graphs of countries where everyone wears them | 19:23 |
| LjL | and then i look at... us | 19:23 |
| mefistofeles | I really don't recall the WHO saying that, and it'snot in the recommendations on masks use, fwiw | 19:23 |
| LjL | there is a very obvious difference, and i'm not sure i can pin it down to lockdowns (which some of them didn't have) | 19:23 |
| mefistofeles | that have been there for months now | 19:23 |
| dzho | mefistofeles: "that" | 19:23 |
| LjL | you don't recall saying we should wear them? | 19:23 |
| LjL | or saying we should not? | 19:23 |
| mefistofeles | saying that we shouldn't | 19:24 |
| dzho | I always understood it as "save the good masks for the people in most need of them" | 19:24 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, are you serious? | 19:24 |
| mefistofeles | yes | 19:24 |
| mefistofeles | I linked earlier here the WHO recommendation doc for masks, that's from 19 Feb, I think | 19:24 |
| mefistofeles | earlier is yesterday, btw | 19:25 |
| LjL | i had an argument with YOU yesterday especially on how home-made masks have not been shown to be okay, and the WHO recommended strongly against using any such thing, with cotton specifically mentioned by you | 19:25 |
| LjL | is my memory getting SO much worse? | 19:25 |
| LjL | freenode/##covid-19/2020-04-03.log:[01:49:02] <mefistofeles> so, wearing PPE, distancing as possible, etc. | 19:26 |
| LjL | freenode/##covid-19/2020-04-03.log:[01:55:09] <mefistofeles> Cloth (e.g. cotton or gauze) masks are not recommended | 19:26 |
| LjL | freenode/##covid-19/2020-04-03.log:[01:55:11] <mefistofeles> under any circumstances | 19:26 |
| LjL | freenode/##covid-19/2020-04-03.log:[01:55:49] <bin_bash> mefistofeles: source | 19:26 |
| LjL | freenode/##covid-19/2020-04-03.log:[01:56:06] <LjL> mefistofeles, are there studies saying they are worse than nothing? because it's sometimes stated, but the few studies i've seen seemed to say the some E. Coli, at least, was stopped more effectively by anything than by nothing | 19:27 |
| LjL | freenode/##covid-19/2020-04-03.log:[01:56:29] <mefistofeles> bin_bash: that's the WHO official mask thing | 19:27 |
| LjL | freenode/##covid-19/2020-04-03.log:[01:56:44] <bin_bash> ok can you post the link please mefistofeles | 19:27 |
| LjL | freenode/##covid-19/2020-04-03.log:[01:56:54] <mefistofeles> one sec | 19:27 |
| LjL | freenode/##covid-19/2020-04-03.log:[01:56:59] <mefistofeles> https://www.who.int/publications-detail/advice-on-the-use-of-masks-in-the-community-during-home-care-and-in-healthcare-settings-in-the-context-of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak | 19:27 |
| mefistofeles | woah flood | 19:27 |
| mefistofeles | yes, there were studies going on on home made masks, they cannot recommend those if the studies weren't reviewed, now they can because they have reviewed them... I don't really see the issue there, tbh | 19:28 |
| mefistofeles | it's a different thing not recommending something than recommending you don'twear them, it's subtle but precise, imho | 19:29 |
| mefistofeles | and the WHO was going for the earlier one, before | 19:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:28 UTC: (news): 'There's a shortage of everything': Pharmacies in New York City struggle to meet demand as coronavirus infections surge — from r/WorldNews at 17:28: World Health Organisation reverses course, now supports wearing face masks in public → https://is.gd/T5ktvJ | 19:31 |
| Blankspace | They just say not to wear to avoid shortage | 19:32 |
| blankets | Hey | 19:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3602 cases (now 1173621), +99 deaths (now 62849), +330 recoveries (now 242100) since 32 minutes ago — Turkey: +3013 cases (now 23934), +76 deaths (now 501), +302 recoveries (now 786) since 32 minutes ago — US: +440 cases (now 300432) since 32 minutes ago | 19:36 |
| smellikegowno | hello | 19:41 |
| smellikegowno | %data canada | 19:41 |
| Brainstorm | smellikegowno: In all areas, Canada, there are 12956 cases, 214 deaths (1.7% of cases), 2322 recoveries as of 7 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.6% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ of cases undetected), and less than 8.4% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 19:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:38 UTC: /u/slakmehl: With New Jersey reporting 200 new deaths today, the US has surpassed 8000 deaths. This represents a 1000% increase over the past 10 days. — from r/WorldNews at 17:38: World Health Organisation reverses course, now supports wearing face masks in public → https://is.gd/u7eMRI | 19:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:44 UTC: (news): 'There's a shortage of everything': Pharmacies in New York City struggle to keep shelves stocked as coronavirus infections surge — from r/WorldNews at 17:44: World Health Organisation reverses course, now supports wearing face masks in public → https://is.gd/T5ktvJ | 19:49 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1057 deaths (now 63906), +1480 recoveries (now 243580) since 17 minutes ago — France: +1053 deaths (now 7560), +1430 recoveries (now 15438) since 2 hours ago — Chile: +424 cases (now 4161), +101 recoveries (now 528) since 2 hours ago | 19:51 |
| LjL | Blankspace, yes, i always thought that's why they said not to wear them, but i also consistently said that lying to people was far from a good long-term policy | 19:52 |
| LjL | and i still believe that fully | 19:52 |
| LjL | if they 180° now, people are not completely stupid. we can see that they are doing that. then it's no use complaining people turn to "social media" and read "fake news". | 19:53 |
| LjL | python47`, today's data for france look uuuh | 19:55 |
| LjL | %cases france | 19:55 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, France, there are 82165 cases, 7560 deaths (9.2% of cases), 15438 recoveries as of 6 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France for time series data. | 19:55 |
| dzho | LjL: I think the issue is complex. | 19:55 |
| dzho | but communications about recommendations have to be simple. | 19:56 |
| dzho | so there is a gap there | 19:56 |
| Blankspace | Ljl I am worried about the people stuck on sea. | 19:56 |
| LjL | dzho, recommendations have changed, and that's not really based on things we couldn't easily know before. | 19:56 |
| Blankspace | Govt are not allowing crew change. | 19:56 |
| dzho | LjL: one projects many factors into a recommendation. | 19:56 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: NHS worker quit when she was stopped from wearing face mask | Tracy Brennan chastised superiors at hospitals trust for making her remove mask she had bought herself (10015 votes) | https://redd.it/funzdu | 19:57 |
| dzho | some things going into that have changed | 19:57 |
| LjL | the issue is complex, recommendations have to be simple, and yet, they've changed, without people really being put into the position of understanding why. that can be defined in a simple way: BAD. | 19:57 |
| LjL | a recommendation based on the fact that healthcare workers had to be prioritized would have been as simple as the concocted reasons given | 19:57 |
| dzho | ok I think you're set in your perspective so I'm not sure this is going to be a productive use of my time right now | 19:57 |
| LjL | and if you think that would have made people hoard masks... remind me, did people NOT hoard masks and/or try to resell them for extortionate money? i think they did anyway. | 19:58 |
| dzho | . | 19:58 |
| LjL | indeed, don't waste time defending the WHO because they're being indefensible. | 19:58 |
| dzho | . | 19:58 |
| LjL | that is not desirable | 19:58 |
| LjL | if you don't want to talk, just don't. | 19:58 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, you, too, are grasping at straws. i think my log was very clear, and very much contrasting with what you said you didn't say the who didn't say... whatever. "We've always been at war with Eastasia". want to live in an Orwellian world, fine, i'm not on board with that. the recommendations have clearly changed. | 20:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:55 UTC: /u/slakmehl: With New Jersey reporting 200 new deaths today, the US has surpassed 8000 deaths. This represents a 1000% increase over the past 10 days. → https://is.gd/t21po0 | 20:02 |
| Blankspace | Orwellian world means? | 20:03 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: Why would you expect them not to change? What I don't agree with is that they are opposite, as far as I can see, they aren't. But I don't really want to make this an endless discussion, just take it as lack of information from my part, or just strictly speaking about the official documents (which are not the complete picture) | 20:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +9147 cases (now 1182770), +291 recoveries (now 243871) since 17 minutes ago — France: +7788 cases (now 89953) since 17 minutes ago — Canada: +1311 cases (now 13860) since 2 hours ago | 20:06 |
| LjL | Blankspace, in this specific instance, a world where "history" or the "official words from authority" change on a daily basis, and records of previous stances are changed or deleted, and this is so ingrained in society that people themselves change their memories of previous stances. | 20:06 |
| mefistofeles | it's also pretty easy to point fingers to WHO, governments, CHina, etc. | 20:06 |
| mefistofeles | this is to be expected as well | 20:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 18:05 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Spain and Italy continue to show signs of having peaked, with the fewest new deaths - 809 and 681 - reported in the last 7 and 9 days, respectively. — from r/WorldNews at 18:05: 5G coronavirus conspiracy theory is dangerous fake nonsense, UK says → https://is.gd/j6V8sN | 20:08 |
| mefistofeles | also the fact that LjL reduces this to "defending/attacking the WHO" says a lot, nobody is trying to do that | 20:08 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: why did you quiet dzho ? | 20:08 |
| LjL | i've consistently pointed my finger against this advice not to wear masks, and i've done it for a specific reason (lying to the public is bad in anything but the short term), and i believe they've given the advice before for a specific, and good, reason (healthcare workers needed them) and not for any actual studies proving them useless or worse. on the other hand, i have seen and provided studies proving they are potentially useful, while you only gave me | 20:09 |
| LjL | that WHO document saying "not recommended". you said there were studies behind it, but you didn't say which. now you're saying i'm "pointing fingers"... yes, i'm pointing fingers, for good and backed up reasons. | 20:09 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, because he started posting lines consisting of exclusively "." after he decided he'd no longer respond to my points | 20:09 |
| LjL | that is basically just spam | 20:09 |
| mefistofeles | you should warn before mute, fwiw | 20:09 |
| LjL | if someone doesn't want to continue a discussion they should state so if they want (which they have), and then simply stop. | 20:09 |
| LjL | says who? | 20:10 |
| mefistofeles | says good practices on admin channels, specially channels with lots of people | 20:10 |
| mefistofeles | also, common sense | 20:10 |
| LjL | i don't generally warn people before muting them, depending of course on circumstances. i have no particular intention to change that at this time. | 20:10 |
| LjL | i will of course unmute dzho. | 20:11 |
| mefistofeles | ok, I suggest you do that | 20:11 |
| mefistofeles | do we know anything behind the molecular mechanism between the "open" and "closed" conformation in the RBD and receptor complex? | 20:20 |
| mefistofeles | I appreciate any info on that | 20:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:16 UTC: White House advisor says another coronavirus epidemic like NYC could change US mortality rate: The virus has spread rapidly throughout New York City which has more than 57,159 confirmed cases, accounting for more than 20% of all cases in the U.S. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/nJck0a | 20:20 |
| mefistofeles | let me rephrase that... do we know anything about the molecular mechanism behind the "open" and "closed" conformations in the RBD and receptor complex? | 20:22 |
| KpaHucTTa | are you there boys? | 20:27 |
| KpaHucTTa | ???? | 20:27 |
| KpaHucTTa | ??? | 20:27 |
| LjL | wish i could say i was a boy | 20:27 |
| KpaHucTTa | ?? | 20:27 |
| KpaHucTTa | ? | 20:27 |
| LjL | hey, stop that | 20:27 |
| KpaHucTTa | LjL sorry | 20:28 |
| KpaHucTTa | Just checking | 20:28 |
| LjL | sure, but one question mark works | 20:28 |
| KpaHucTTa | LjL noted | 20:28 |
| KpaHucTTa | Happy to announce that I was outside in the athmosphere today | 20:29 |
| Jigsy | >families will no longer be able to attend services at crematoria. Instead the councils will offer “direct cremations”, in which there is no ceremony and mourners are not present; | 20:29 |
| Jigsy | Imagine dying and nobody turning up to your funeral... | 20:29 |
| ecks | rest assured, you'll be too dead to to care | 20:30 |
| Jigsy | lol. | 20:30 |
| Jigsy | True. | 20:30 |
| Jigsy | But man, that's just depressing. | 20:30 |
| KpaHucTTa | Jigsy I doubt youll care about it | 20:30 |
| LjL | KpaHucTTa, well, it was a nice day outside here, but i hope you were careful | 20:30 |
| LjL | Jigsy, this has been the policy in Italy since the beginning or at least since pretty soon | 20:31 |
| LjL | you can't see your relatives once they are in the COVID ward, and if they die, you can't see their bodies or attend to their cremation | 20:31 |
| Jigsy | Well, the UK's now banning funerals. | 20:31 |
| LjL | funerals have been banned here since the second emergency law | 20:31 |
| LjL | it is incredibly cringe-inducing but what can you do? | 20:31 |
| LjL | on the other hand, if we ban funerals and then insist on making everyone go to supermarkets instead of spending money on providing delivery... | 20:32 |
| AimHere | Jigsy, really? All the more reason for the Queen or Prince Philip to die from it. | 20:32 |
| LjL | Italy is on a steadily linear trajectory. that's better than exponential, but it's not what you got in Korea or (unless you don't believe their numbers) China | 20:32 |
| KpaHucTTa | dig up a hole in your back yard, nobody will stop your relatives attend | 20:32 |
| AimHere | Jigsy, just seems to be a few towns in the UK | 20:33 |
| LjL | KpaHucTTa, we don't have a back yards, and neither do most other italians, as we overwhelmingly live in apartment. gatherings of more than two people are strictly banned. in addition, an illegal burial is a crime. | 20:33 |
| KpaHucTTa | LjL damn | 20:34 |
| Jigsy | AimHere: I doubt it'll happen if one of the royal parasites dies. | 20:36 |
| Jigsy | I guarantee there'd be a state funeral. | 20:36 |
| AimHere | Even if there is, a socially distanced State funeral of someone whose had decades of preparation for it would be hilarious | 20:36 |
| LjL | Spec, ubLIX: you may be delighted to know that they are introducing drones here with technology to detect if two people are closer than the allowed distances and automatically alert police on that | 20:36 |
| AimHere | Nobody lining the streets, people in their best funeral frocks having to wear surgical masks. Coughing during the funeral ceremony being a 'you're next' affair... | 20:37 |
| Jigsy | >imagine being arrested for being 1cm too close | 20:37 |
| KpaHucTTa | LjL what is your location? | 20:37 |
| LjL | KpaHucTTa, Milan, Lombardy | 20:37 |
| farn | That sounds very Half-Life 2 | 20:38 |
| aldwich | speaking of drones, are they being used to police almost empty city centres and shopping miles now deserted? | 20:38 |
| KpaHucTTa | LjL italy got a bad hit, hopefully it means that at least it will be over soon. | 20:39 |
| KpaHucTTa | other nations took measures earlier and they will suffer this much much longer | 20:40 |
| ubLIX | LjL: hmm, lets just hand skynet a worldwide fleet of ML-vision human-parsing drones.. | 20:42 |
| LjL | KpaHucTTa, most western countries didn't take measures *that* much earlier as far as i can see... a bit earlier maybe, but there are some pretty worrisome trajectories, like in Spain, Switzerland, the UK, and look at France today | 20:43 |
| LjL | (no really, look at today's spike in France on the live chart) | 20:43 |
| IronY | speaking of the queen | 20:44 |
| IronY | anyone have the link, she is supposed to be talking in 15 mins? | 20:45 |
| AimHere | It's tomorrow sometime | 20:45 |
| Jigsy | Isn't it tomorrow? | 20:45 |
| tinwhiskers | I think it is today | 20:46 |
| IronY | I do not see the queen speaking on a sunday, and the news here said today | 20:46 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, wait... It's Sunday *here* but maybe it's not until Sunday in the UK. | 20:46 |
| LjL | i suspect it's not today or i would see *some* live stream of it on youtube... but i am not sure | 20:46 |
| aldwich | it's tomorrow apparently, 8pm: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/03/queen-to-address-nation-on-sunday-over-coronavirus-crisis | 20:46 |
| IronY | I just want to see someone in their 100s tell me to wash my hand | 20:46 |
| KpaHucTTa | what queen? | 20:46 |
| IronY | the queen be like, yoh I survived 1918, u got this | 20:47 |
| tinwhiskers | Heh | 20:47 |
| blkshp | wouldn't shorten you to u in 1918 | 20:47 |
| AimHere | I mean, I can give you the gist: "One is very concerned about this virus thing that my servants tell me has been going about. Poor people dying makes one rather sad. Please do what the government says. Aren't nurses wonderful?" | 20:47 |
| AimHere | IronY, the queen didn't survive 1918. She's slightly too young | 20:47 |
| LjL | IronY, except she was born in 1926... | 20:48 |
| tinwhiskers | Whoosh | 20:48 |
| IronY | AimHere: yeah by about 28 years | 20:48 |
| IronY | sorry I will adjust | 20:48 |
| AimHere | Nearer 8 | 20:48 |
| Jigsy | Well, I certainly won't be watching her spiel. | 20:48 |
| IronY | I mean, I listen to people talk about covid19 all day that are not queens | 20:49 |
| tinwhiskers | I'll watch if I remember | 20:49 |
| IronY | for entertainment purposes, I do not see why you would not watch it | 20:49 |
| AimHere | I might prick up my ears if I get word she's declared martial law and Boris Johnson is going to be beheaded in the Tower | 20:49 |
| Jigsy | She can't declare martial law. | 20:49 |
| AimHere | Jigsy, she pretty much can | 20:50 |
| IronY | with the amount of money they are worth, she can do what ever she wants | 20:50 |
| Jigsy | iirc, the Army are to protect the public. | 20:50 |
| IronY | old rules are no longer in effect | 20:50 |
| Jigsy | While the navy and air force protect her. | 20:50 |
| AimHere | Jigsy, except when they're there to shoot the public | 20:50 |
| ubLIX | Every British officer is required to swear an oath to the queen before being commissioned | 20:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 18:44 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Fotografie — from r/WorldNews at 18:44: 5G masts are being set on fire in the UK due to coronavirus conspiracy theories. → https://is.gd/GKYioV | 20:50 |
| AimHere | Yeah, the queen has more clout with the Army than the Prime Minister does | 20:51 |
| IronY | ubLIX: We still swear some oaths to the queen | 20:51 |
| IronY | “I swear (or affirm) that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Queen of Canada, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will faithfully observe the laws of Canada, and fulfil my duties as a Canadian citizen.” | 20:52 |
| IronY | https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/2019/05/the-oath-of-citizenship.html | 20:52 |
| tinwhiskers | Well we have a constitutional monarchy here too, and the king really only puts up with the government for amusement purposes, kind of like having a pet cat. When the king growls you know who really holds the power. | 20:53 |
| dzho | lol | 20:54 |
| AimHere | tinwhiskers, where's there? | 20:54 |
| dzho | nice to be back | 20:54 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, there are subtly varying situations with constitutional monarchies. for example in Sweden the king was legally stripped of *all* powers, explicitly, in the 70s, but in theory he can still commit any crime and be immune from prosecution. would get funny if he murdered someone. | 20:54 |
| tinwhiskers | Tonga :-) | 20:54 |
| AimHere | Neat. Not many Tongans about | 20:56 |
| blkshp | he's an import ;) | 20:56 |
| blkshp | :O | 20:56 |
| Jigsy | I still like that picture of the Norwegian King on the Bus. | 20:56 |
| LjL | there is that hard-to-grab Iranian too | 20:56 |
| Jigsy | On his way to ski. | 20:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:53 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: France daily death toll slows, Dubai imposes two-week lockdown: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 20:57 |
| Jigsy | https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d5/a0/55/d5a05598d697ac0f154d5f2ad8e92958.jpg | 20:57 |
| LjL | ... slows? | 20:57 |
| LjL | oh, the death tolls | 20:57 |
| LjL | certainly not the case count | 20:57 |
| tinwhiskers | AimHere: yeah, I'm like the whitest palangi in the whole country | 20:57 |
| Jigsy | Then you've got the Prince (now King) of Jordan who was in an episode of Star Trek. | 21:01 |
| tinwhiskers | Heh. Nice | 21:01 |
| Jigsy | See, that's what you want in a monarch! | 21:02 |
| IronY | I wish I could unwatch tiger king so I can rewatch tiger king, that was a decent distraction for a day | 21:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:54 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Trump touts unproven drug as Cuomo says New York is nearing apex [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/7mtTid | 21:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +5918 cases (now 1188688), +161 deaths (now 64075), +403 recoveries (now 244274) since an hour ago — Germany: +3487 cases (now 95637), +65 deaths (now 1395) since an hour ago — US: +2016 cases (now 302641), +75 deaths (now 8232) since an hour ago | 21:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American at 19:00 UTC: Jolted by Her Own Illness, Pandemics Scholar Gains Insight into Botched COVID-19 Response: The author of book on the 2009 flu outbreak explains how a lack of effective tests crippled U.S. attempts to contain the coronavirus -- Read more on ScientificAmerican.com [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/bD7xVW | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 19:10 UTC: ljl-covid: Add SCMP article about WHO 180° on face masks [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/xzjJNM | 21:15 |
| maxxe | %data sweden | 21:16 |
| Brainstorm | maxxe: In all areas, Sweden, there are 6443 cases, 373 deaths (5.8% of cases), 205 recoveries as of 13 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Sweden for time series data. | 21:16 |
| aradesh | just updated my shopping order. all being well i should get about 2 weeks of food and house-hold equipment arriving tomorrow | 21:35 |
| aradesh | but i bet there will be things on my list that don't come | 21:35 |
| aradesh | i ordered a pack of 50 disposable gloves! i wonder if they'll be in stock xD | 21:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +533 cases (now 1189221), +1745 recoveries (now 246019) since 33 minutes ago — Switzerland: +227 cases (now 20505), +1569 recoveries (now 6415) since 33 minutes ago — US: +278 cases (now 302919), +168 recoveries (now 14686) since 33 minutes ago | 21:36 |
| aradesh | but i hope they do... i'd like them for when i go out the house | 21:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus* at 19:11 UTC: Coronavirus: Michigan inmate dies in a cell as COVID-19 virus spreads to 200 other inmates in Michigan [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/lurJQs | 21:40 |
| aradesh | maybe they shouldn't have done crimes to get put in jail then *cough* | 21:42 |
| dunnp | wtaf aradesh | 21:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica at 19:35 UTC: Science: Don’t Panic: The comprehensive Ars Technica guide to the coronavirus [Updated 4/4] — from r/WorldNews at 19:35: For First Time Since Outbreak Began, Use of ICU Beds in Italy has Dropped → https://is.gd/xojkEa | 21:46 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2570 cases (now 1191791), +94 deaths (now 64217) since 20 minutes ago — US: +1464 cases (now 304383) since 20 minutes ago — Illinois, US: +1453 cases (now 10357) since 48 minutes ago | 21:51 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: Wives can refuse sexual advances from husbands during coronavirus quarantine, says top Saudi cleric (10013 votes) | https://redd.it/fuokh0 | 21:51 |
| blkshp | Thats something that'll never go back | 21:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:44 UTC: (news): Coronavirus patients spend night on Navy hospital ship meant for non-infected New York patients — from r/WorldNews at 19:44: For First Time Since Outbreak Began, Use of ICU Beds in Italy has Dropped → https://is.gd/CAsnv4 | 21:52 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: Trump gives FEMA power to restrict trade of essential goods into Canada: U.S. President Donald Trump is vowing to stop the export of vital medical supplies despite a warning from Prime Minister Justin Trudeau to keep the Canada-U.S. border open to goods needed to fight the coronavirus pandemic. (10312 votes) | https://redd.it/fut5zj | 21:57 |
| aradesh | dunnp: not like it's an uncommon position. | 21:57 |
| ubLIX | 2.3 million people held in prison in the US, aradesh | 21:59 |
| ubLIX | how many are not guilty of very serious crimes | 21:59 |
| aradesh | whew | 21:59 |
| aradesh | that's a lot | 21:59 |
| ubLIX | how many are innocent of the crime for which they were convicted | 21:59 |
| aradesh | hopefully not too many, for the last one | 22:00 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | too bad, they should have been good | 22:00 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | i'm against releasing prisoners | 22:01 |
| ubLIX | how many are guilty of only a legal crime dictated by one of the many perversities for which the US justice system is famous | 22:01 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | thats just the hazzard of being in jail | 22:01 |
| aradesh | hopefully not too many, if they're actually in jail | 22:01 |
| aradesh | if the US is putting the wrong people in jail they should stop that | 22:01 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | i've never even been arrested | 22:01 |
| aradesh | but in general i have not much sympathy for prisoners | 22:01 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | no tea for them | 22:01 |
| aradesh | if it's a matter of being released or getting a disease? i'd say get the disease. | 22:01 |
| aradesh | that is a seriously high prison population though | 22:02 |
| aradesh | 2.3 million? christ. | 22:02 |
| aradesh | that's almost 1% of the population | 22:02 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | its hard to stay in jail, out jails are so full, they early release a lot of people | 22:02 |
| aradesh | gaZ-mAnIaC: USA? | 22:02 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | yes, if you don't live then you don't know what you are talking about | 22:03 |
| aradesh | i live in the UK | 22:03 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | people get killed here all the time by prisoners one week out of jail | 22:03 |
| ubLIX | gaZ-mAnIaC: did you just assert that it is impossible to have insight into US affairs unless you live in the US? | 22:04 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | so too bad for them in terms of Covid, many good people are suffering | 22:04 |
| aradesh | there's often a consensus in educated circles that civilised countries stopped wanting, for example, the death penalty a long time ago - but as recently as 2015 in the UK support for it was 50/50 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32061822 | 22:04 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | releasing people from jail due to Covid is a bad idea | 22:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:02 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: France daily death toll slows, Dubai imposes two-week lockdown: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 22:05 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | they should have stayed out of jail | 22:05 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | everyone has an excuse | 22:05 |
| aradesh | so from stats like that, you can be fairly sure most people don't have much sympathy for prisoners. | 22:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1560 cases (now 1193351) since 17 minutes ago — US: +1551 cases (now 305934) since 17 minutes ago — Massachusetts, US: +1334 cases (now 11736) since 17 minutes ago | 22:06 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | let's take care of the people who've done right | 22:06 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | FIRST | 22:06 |
| ubLIX | gaZ-mAnIaC: yours is a simple minded view | 22:06 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | no, its realistic | 22:06 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | disease is just a hazard of being in jail | 22:07 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | don't start name calling | 22:07 |
| ubLIX | you will change your tune if you are ever confined to prison by miscarriage of justice | 22:07 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | just because your position is indefensible | 22:07 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | right, everyone has an excuse why they are in jail | 22:08 |
| blkshp | Depends on the crime | 22:08 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | !corona US | 22:08 |
| CoronaBot | USA: Global rank: #1, cases: 305,934 (+28,773), fatalities: 8,306 (+902), active cases: 282,942, total recovered: 14,686, in a serious condition: 8,073. Mortality: 2.71%, case fatality rate: -, cases/1M: 924.0, deaths/1M: 25.0. Case rate: 32,284/24h, death rate: 1,328/24h. Tests: 1,567,003, tests/1M: 4,734. | 22:08 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | its the right of everyone to be safe and secure in their homes ... FWIW | 22:15 |
| aradesh | i'm not saying i think we should deliberately infect all 2 million US prisoners. i'm just saying that if an infection goes into a prison, well that's too bad. yeah, do what you can to separate them, or put all the sick ones together, or give hospital treatment to any who are seriously bad... but beyond that, shouldn't have commited the crime. | 22:18 |
| ubLIX | like you've never committed a crime, aradesh | 22:19 |
| aradesh | not one with jail time associated i'm pretty sure | 22:20 |
| IronY | I spent 18 hours in a holding cell when I was 17 | 22:20 |
| IronY | that was good enough for me to never get arrested again | 22:20 |
| aradesh | prison and punishment is a difficult philosophical topic. when you have a form of punishment, there is always the chance that an innocent (such as yourself) receives it by mistake... but without the punishment, there are going to be more people that do harm roaming the streets. so there is always a trade off | 22:22 |
| aradesh | minimise the overall risk to society | 22:22 |
| aradesh | which means you are still subjected to some potential risk of harm, or being unfairly punished | 22:22 |
| ubLIX | and that difficulty is one facet of why "oops, too bad" is an indefensibly flippant attitude to the duty of care to prisoners' health | 22:24 |
| aradesh | it's flippant, but i don't think indefensible. | 22:24 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | but thats my point, most people in jail are repeat offenders!!! | 22:24 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | i've had to shoot an ex-con | 22:25 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | all minor crimes are given probation | 22:25 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | you can steal a car and get probation | 22:26 |
| dunnp | aradesh: your comment sounded like you thought they deserved to get sick because they were in jail | 22:26 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | what about the homeless who are not in jial? | 22:26 |
| aradesh | dunnp: nah, not that they deserve it. but i think it's better to keep the criminals in jail, even if there is a disease going around the jail, than letting them out potentially putting teh public at danger, or bending over backwards to cure them when there are other non-prisoners who need those hospital beds | 22:27 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | getting over worked up about people in jail is thinking in circles | 22:27 |
| aradesh | non-prisoners should come first with the treatment imo | 22:27 |
| jip | Hi people, I am looking for information on false negative covid-19 test results. Can anyone help me? I've only found news reports mention "experts say" but I'd like to find something a bit more scientific. | 22:27 |
| gaZ-mAnIaC | and also, the US has no mental care for the poor so they end up in jail. should we let mental cases out? i don't think so. | 22:29 |
| aradesh | jip: i don't have any sources myself. i think the problem is, it's still extremely early and not much data or research has been done or made public yet | 22:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:23 UTC: (news): Coronavirus patients spend night on Navy hospital ship meant for non-infected New York patients — from r/WorldNews at 20:23: Seeking coronavirus relief, investment firm with ties to Kushner emails Kushner, Trump admin about relaxing rules on a $100 billion loan program. → https://is.gd/CAsnv4 | 22:31 |
| ubLIX | gaZ-mAnIaC: jail or prison? you're now suggesting that the mentally ill are best served by being incarcerated in the criminal justice system? | 22:31 |
| aradesh | if we wanted to get good information on false negatives or positives of various types of test, we'd need an extremely reliable test to compare them against. the only extremely reliable way is extensive laboratory testing, which is expensive and slow. | 22:31 |
| ubLIX | actually, don't answer that | 22:32 |
| aradesh | so at the moment, we've not had much time to do the extensive thorough laboratory tests, as everyone is just frantically testing everyone as fast as they can | 22:32 |
| jip | aradesh: But there must be enough numbers to put the data together. :-/ | 22:33 |
| jip | aradesh: I understand | 22:33 |
| stinkpot | the US has some care for the mentally ill gaZ-mAnIaC , but it's a lengthy process to become a warden of the state | 22:33 |
| dunnp | i imagine that the FDA approval involved some false positive rate analysis? | 22:35 |
| aradesh | jip: maybe there is research out there, i just don't know it | 22:35 |
| aradesh | dunnp: yeah i'm sure they have done tests | 22:36 |
| aradesh | at least enough to get a good idea that the tests they're issuing are at least reasonably accurate | 22:36 |
| aradesh | but it's still kind of early days to know good data, and i dunno if it's all been published or anything.... | 22:36 |
| BobKitten | 🐈 | 22:36 |
| pwr22 | So in the supermarket today someone refused to socially distance from me in the checkout queue | 22:37 |
| pwr22 | Even after the cashier and I asked them too and I pointed out I'm at risk | 22:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:26 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Trump speaks at coronavirus press conference — from r/WorldNews at 20:26: Seeking coronavirus relief, investment firm with ties to Kushner emails Kushner, Trump admin about relaxing rules on a $100 billion loan program. → https://is.gd/7mtTid | 22:37 |
| aradesh | pwr22: ugh. | 22:37 |
| aradesh | pwr22: what were they like? old? | 22:37 |
| pwr22 | They said "why's it matter" and had a go at me | 22:38 |
| aradesh | i've noticed a lot of old stubborn people refusing to be careful | 22:38 |
| pwr22 | I said "people are dying" | 22:38 |
| aradesh | geez | 22:38 |
| pwr22 | It was a First bus driver, had a go at me, not really old | 22:38 |
| aradesh | hmm | 22:38 |
| aradesh | complain to First bus? | 22:38 |
| pwr22 | Cba | 22:39 |
| aradesh | what a jerk | 22:39 |
| pwr22 | Just wanted to vent a bit and show why the UK curve probably isn't going to flatten as much as we like | 22:39 |
| aradesh | oh no i'm sure you're right | 22:39 |
| aradesh | i've seen a lot of stubborn people, and also people just really not taking it seriously | 22:40 |
| aradesh | so many places still open | 22:40 |
| aradesh | everywhere calling themselves "essential" | 22:40 |
| pwr22 | Yeah | 22:41 |
| iguest | Right, how is a liquor store essential? | 22:42 |
| dunnp | because I need to stay drunk | 22:42 |
| graphine | lol | 22:42 |
| iguest | Fore sure - Some people can't get through their day without being cocked. | 22:43 |
| code-glitch | Based on twitter : I've seen Muslims still going to worship in the UK - anyone got any actual real evidence of this? | 22:43 |
| dunnp | christians still going to church in the US | 22:44 |
| dunnp | Texas even made it an exemption to distancing | 22:45 |
| code-glitch | Sad to hear | 22:45 |
| cybitnap[m] | Are you confined ? | 22:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:41 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: France daily death toll slows, Dubai imposes two-week lockdown: As U.S. coronavirus infections outpace those of other countries' reports, employers, if they're open at all, are taking new steps to protect their labor force. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/8gewyT | 22:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1036 cases (now 1194387) since 48 minutes ago — US: +834 cases (now 306768) since 48 minutes ago — Connecticut, US: +362 cases (now 5276) since an hour ago | 22:51 |
| dunnp | only a few US states aren't under lockdown | 22:52 |
| aradesh | the federal government really should have locked the whole country down weeks ago | 22:55 |
| aradesh | i thought that was the point of the federal government? in the case of a national crisis, take control and order the states on what to do | 22:56 |
| dunnp | requires leadership to do this | 22:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:54 UTC: (news): Trump says 1,000 military personnel are deploying to New York City to fight coronavirus — from r/WorldNews at 20:54: Cuban officials say a shipment of coronavirus aid from Asia's richest man, Jack Ma, has been blocked by the six-decade U.S. embargo on the island. → https://is.gd/D73DGh | 22:57 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: China is donating 1,000 ventilators to help New York in corona (10724 votes) | https://redd.it/fuw4w1 | 23:03 |
| cybitnap[m] | In France we are confined since 3 weeks | 23:19 |
| aradesh | 2 weeks here in the UK | 23:20 |
| aradesh | just finished week 2 of lockdown | 23:20 |
| aradesh | but deaths are still going up :/ | 23:20 |
| LjL | i think... it's not like i'm against lockdowns, but countries like South Korea managed to get this under control without lockdowns. they used aggressive contact tracing instead, even when they already had as many as 7000 cases (which may seem few now, but "back then", i.e. like 20 days ago, we were all like aaaah) | 23:20 |
| LjL | i think the two strategies need to be combined to get this under real control in the west | 23:21 |
| jiffe | I've forgotten what its like to not be in lockdown :( | 23:21 |
| LjL | otherwise we'll just continue having this shaky sort-of-linear-but-never-steadily-going-down curves | 23:21 |
| aradesh | LjL: yeah, but we first need lockdowns to get it down to that level | 23:21 |
| euod[m] | jiffe feels like a normal day to me. | 23:21 |
| aradesh | get it down to a level where we can actually play the game of whack-a-mole like south korea | 23:21 |
| aradesh | if we'd been on top of it from the start, then we could be like south korea | 23:22 |
| LjL | aradesh, but it won't go down, it keeps going up. linear, which is a lot better than exponential (especially for pressure on hospitals), but we still have more people to track and trace, not less | 23:22 |
| aradesh | yeah, we should try to get it down more though, because nearly 1000 people/day is way too many :/ | 23:22 |
| euod[m] | the game really should have been for everybody to close their borders months ago, but nobody seemed to be willing at the time. the whole "everyone flies home" just made everything worse. | 23:22 |
| aradesh | itt's too steep a linear | 23:22 |
| LjL | euod[m], there are many actions that come with undesired reactions by people. but these, too, can and should be foreseen | 23:23 |
| LjL | i've seen too many "announced quarantines", even right after another one next door had just failed catastrophically | 23:23 |
| LjL | is it so hard to learn from what the country next to you did wrong two days ago? | 23:23 |
| LjL | i say, to countries in general | 23:23 |
| aradesh | has there been much random sampling of populations yet, to determine coronavirus cases on average in certain regions?\ | 23:25 |
| LjL | no | 23:25 |
| LjL | as in, there hasn't been much random sampling in general | 23:25 |
| aradesh | it'll be really important to know say what percentage of italy has had the virus already | 23:25 |
| aradesh | is it 1%, is it 10%, etc | 23:25 |
| LjL | Iceland did some, Veneto in Italy did something vaguely similar, Korea said "everyone come get tested!" but mostly it was still people with symptoms | 23:25 |
| LjL | aradesh, yes, we all think it's important, including our authorities, but we also think it's more important to test and treat positive people who are sick first. this is the thing. while this does not get any better in terms of dealing with hospitalized people, it also doesn't get better in terms of having a bit of respite so we can stop and study this thing | 23:26 |
| LjL | that's why it needs to go down a bit, not just stay linear | 23:27 |
| aradesh | yeah | 23:27 |
| aradesh | if it goes down enough, it becomes feasible to contact trace | 23:27 |
| LjL | and i don't know if that can be achieved with lockdowns alone. at the *very* least the lockdowns should be a lot more serious (great weather today, apparently many italians illegally around) | 23:27 |
| aradesh | i think it can be achieved with serious enough lockdowns, but adherence and enforcement is the big problem | 23:28 |
| LjL | but apparently we don't have enough police for that (or are they deployed unstrategically?) and so authorities just "beg" (literally, that's the word the governor of Lombardy used today) people to respect the rules and stay home | 23:28 |
| aradesh | even police + army? | 23:28 |
| LjL | but if there's a portion that just ignored the pleas yesterday, and the day before, and the week before, and two weeks before... they won't start heeding it now | 23:28 |
| aradesh | the army should be on the streets imo | 23:28 |
| aradesh | helping | 23:28 |
| LjL | aradesh, sure, we already had army around doing police tasks in italy because a law made that legal years ago... and the emergency law made it even more legal, so sure, get everyone, give people fines | 23:29 |
| dzho | I think it is more reasonable and enforceable to do what New York has done, which is to ban gatherings and shut businesses. People can go outside if they can stay away from each other. | 23:29 |
| LjL | i'm sure we don't need to beat people up with sticks like i've seen in India, i suspect Italians tend to be sensitive to actually getting a €3000 fine | 23:29 |
| aradesh | may seem reasonable, but how's that working out for new york's infection and death rate/ | 23:29 |
| tinwhiskers | https://www.nature.com/articles/nm.3985.pdf - A SARS-like cluster of circulating bat coronaviruses shows potential for human emergence (2015) | 23:30 |
| dzho | aradesh: I'm pretty confident that that's not the only problem and probably not the main one | 23:30 |
| dzho | there is a lot of New York that is not NYC too | 23:30 |
| LjL | dzho, well, we've done that, and the curve didn't go down, it just kept going up a bit slower. we've gone further, and the curve stabilized to linear, almost linear, but still not ideal | 23:30 |
| LjL | so i don't think going *back* to what NYC is doing would be sound for us | 23:30 |
| aradesh | lol | 23:30 |
| aradesh | yeah | 23:30 |
| dzho | I wouldn't say so either | 23:30 |
| LjL | and for that matter, i don't think anything short of a full lockdown will work in NYC. in fact i expect a full lockdown shortly enough. check back with me a week from now. i'll say "i was wrong" if they won't have a lockdown with anything but "essential" activities banned | 23:31 |
| dzho | there are US states that have neither a 100% "pause" (what NY calls it) nor a stay-at-home order | 23:31 |
| aradesh | you expect full lock down in new york, you mean? | 23:31 |
| aradesh | i hear florida only got its stay-at-home order like 3 days ago | 23:31 |
| aradesh | which is crazy | 23:31 |
| tinwhiskers | "Pseudotyping experiments were similar to those using an HIV-based pseudovirus, prepared as previously described10, and examined on HeLa cells (Wuhan Institute of Virology) that expressed ACE2 orthologs." | 23:32 |
| dzho | I think a full pause in those states sooner would be better than a "lock down" that people didn't take seriously later | 23:32 |
| dzho | aradesh: I don't know what to expect, honestly, nor what's feasible | 23:32 |
| dzho | people can be "inside" and still spread things around large residential buildings | 23:32 |
| dzho | how do you police that? | 23:32 |
| aradesh | ouch | 23:33 |
| LjL | a lock down that people don't take seriously in Italy is, make no mistake, a *drastic* reduction in the amount of... people going to places. i had a walk the other day, yeah, i violated the lockdown (!), and it was a bit of a ghost town, including ghost trams circulating empty | 23:33 |
| aradesh | through the air conditioning? | 23:33 |
| dzho | aradesh: I mean, by just going to the lobby | 23:33 |
| dzho | or the stairwell | 23:33 |
| aradesh | ah | 23:33 |
| dzho | or the laundry | 23:33 |
| LjL | or door handles | 23:33 |
| dzho | right. | 23:33 |
| dzho | doormen are considered "essential" and exempt from workplace restrictions | 23:34 |
| LjL | dzho, "how do you police that?", the Chinese answer is, have a building manager that can punish the hell out of you for violating regulations even inside the building | 23:34 |
| LjL | will that happen in the west? maybe, if the situation gets desperate enough. but instead of making that happen, we could maybe... try doing like Korea, even if we have many more cases now? | 23:34 |
| dzho | I think that building manager would get killed | 23:34 |
| dzho | I mean, I don't know really | 23:35 |
| LjL | well, me neither, but people are definitely dying one way or another | 23:35 |
| tinwhiskers | https://www.nature.com/articles/nature12711 - Isolation and characterization of a bat SARS-like coronavirus that uses the ACE2 receptor (2013) | 23:35 |
| LjL | we have to figure out something that actually works | 23:35 |
| tinwhiskers | "All sampling processes were performed by veterinarians with approval from Animal Ethics Committee of the Wuhan Institute of Virology" | 23:35 |
| LjL | maybe not we as in the ones in here personally, unless we send a delegation to the WHO | 23:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +1063 cases (now 306997) since an hour ago — World: +395 cases (now 1194782), +112 deaths (now 64409) since 48 minutes ago — Connecticut, US: +362 cases (now 5276) since an hour ago | 23:36 |
| dunnp | itching to do something from the research side but I think it wouldn't help | 23:37 |
| cybitnap[m] | There will be many deaths in US. | 23:38 |
| tinwhiskers | Q: How do you get a test for Corona virus in the USA? A: Cough on a rich person. | 23:39 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, creepy. are you implicitly suggesting we should have known and prepared, or that this actually came out of a lab studying those things, or both, or neither? | 23:39 |
| LjL | lol | 23:39 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm not actually suggesting anything, but it's interesting. | 23:39 |
| cybitnap[m] | That's interesting of course but we will never know | 23:40 |
| tinwhiskers | right | 23:40 |
| cybitnap[m] | I think more virus will come and this one is soft | 23:41 |
| tinwhiskers | Well, unless the Wuhan lab fesses up and says they released it by accident we'll never know. More likely it was a natural emergence of a novel virus from bats as had happened before and as will happen again. | 23:41 |
| Toadisattva | ultimately it doesn't matter where it came from, just what we can do about it | 23:42 |
| tinwhiskers | This is a fascinating read: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/ (I know I've posted it several times already but it's interesting) | 23:42 |
| dzho | > unless we send a delegation to the WHO | 23:42 |
| dzho | lol | 23:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Toadisattva: agreed | 23:43 |
| dzho | anything's possible I guess | 23:43 |
| cybitnap[m] | It's important to know where it came from to eradicate it !! | 23:44 |
| cybitnap[m] | It seems animals like cats can be ill | 23:44 |
| tinwhiskers | only if you plan to eradicate all bats, and for that matter all wild and farmed animals | 23:45 |
| tinwhiskers | We can barely keep on top of vaccinations for humans. I don't think making or delivering vaccines to wild animals each year will be very practical. | 23:46 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: how are you doing sir? | 23:46 |
| LjL | dzho, i mean, that was a joke, but it's kind of like voting... there's millions of people voting, so technically, it's not incorrect to say your vote has about zero probability of having any effect at all. yet, collectively, if no one voted, things wouldn't work. so by analogy, it makes sense for us here to think of possible solutions even if we probably won't find them and they probably won't be adopted | 23:46 |
| cybitnap[m] | you can also forbide to eat wild animals like they did in Shenzhen | 23:46 |
| LjL | the analogy may have some missing piece here and there, admittedly | 23:46 |
| tinwhiskers | people eat wild animals all around the world including bats. You can't ban eating *all* wild animals. Fish? Deer? | 23:47 |
| tinwhiskers | Hey Spec | 23:47 |
| Spec | some people don't have like, the worldwide frame of reference and understanding of cultural differences to understand these sorts of things, for what it's worth | 23:48 |
| Spec | i'd never advocate for gettin rid of dem pigs | 23:48 |
| tinwhiskers | And anyway, it's not required to eat bats to get the disease. Them crapping on you or less commonly, biting you can give you their viruses | 23:49 |
| LjL | pigs, the well-known wild species | 23:49 |
| aldwich | no, banning the eating of wild anumals won't be practical. even if there would be laws against that. how to enforce it in a big country? not feasible in remote areas. what should have been done since SARS 17 years back is to ban and shut down these wet animal markets | 23:49 |
| Spec | LjL: BOARS | 23:49 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, banning wet markets might be feasible but doesn't solve the problem. | 23:50 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, if i understood what i read correctly, Nipah likely came from people eating fruit that had been previously nibbled on by bats | 23:50 |
| LjL | either that one, or some other near-epidemic | 23:50 |
| Spec | LjL: but also some cultures would like to ban the eating of pigs, and others the eating of cow | 23:50 |
| LjL | Spec, oh right, those | 23:50 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: Oh, that's interesting. I also read about bat a researcher going into self-quarantine after being peed on by a bat | 23:50 |
| tinwhiskers | They know the risks | 23:50 |
| Spec | okay, let us make bats illegal | 23:50 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 23:50 |
| LjL | Spec, but everyone is happy eating chicken, to the point some people in some weird countries believe that it's okay for vegetarians to eat chicken. how's that? | 23:50 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: do you even have bats in your island? | 23:50 |
| tinwhiskers | Let's plan for the inevitable to happen! | 23:51 |
| Spec | LjL: also the way we FARM chicken is conducive towards evolving SUPERBACTERIA that are resistant to antibiotics | 23:51 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2013 cases (now 1196795), +155 deaths (now 64564) since 20 minutes ago — Spain: +1432 cases (now 126168), +203 deaths (now 11947) since an hour ago — US: +692 cases (now 307689) since 20 minutes ago | 23:51 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, I have lots of bats here. There is a bat roost not 200m from my house. | 23:51 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: awesome | 23:51 |
| LjL | Spec, good lord don't tell me about antibiotics resistance, every time i look at that map of europe i get the creeps | 23:51 |
| Spec | yeah, i've got bats in a tree near me, they come out in the late afternoon and fly around all flappily | 23:51 |
| tinwhiskers | The locals come out and shoot them despite it being illegal (they belong to the king) | 23:51 |
| aldwich | solving the problem in its entirety, no, not achievable to if we reduce the probabilities, that should help, again, probability of a return of covid 3.0 in a decade will still be greater than zero but not zero | 23:52 |
| LjL | bats are also carriers of rabies in the US, which is not great | 23:52 |
| Spec | yeah that's not super fantastic | 23:53 |
| LjL | but all this stuff... it's not really the bats' fault, they are just... very good hosts for bad things, i guess? | 23:53 |
| Spec | but they eat mosquitos which IS super fantastic | 23:53 |
| LjL | probably gives them more diseases though | 23:53 |
| tinwhiskers | The bats frequently crap on my roof, and my drinking water is rain water collected from my roof. Banning wet markets might make you feel better and might reduce the chance a bit but really that's the wrong place to aim. | 23:53 |
| LjL | TV is titling "Trump sends 1000 soldiers to New York" | 23:54 |
| LjL | i don't know if they mean the state or the city, i assume the state | 23:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:51 UTC: (news): Trump says 1,000 military personnel deploying to New York City, warns coming week toughest yet in coronavirus fight — from r/WorldNews at 21:51: The World Health Organization Warns That 'More and More' Young People Are In ICU And Dying From Coronavirus → https://is.gd/D73DGh | 23:54 |
| LjL | Brainstorm, i wind | 23:54 |
| LjL | and also win | 23:54 |
| LjL | but i guessed wrong, evidently | 23:54 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: how do you make your water safe? | 23:54 |
| LjL | right | 23:54 |
| LjL | i should be busy buying jugs | 23:55 |
| LjL | Spec, we got a delivery today though! | 23:55 |
| Spec | LjL: nice | 23:55 |
| LjL | Spec, my dad opened the door with a mask and single-use gloves, got all the bags inside with his gloves hands, then my mom and i disinfected all the packaging of all the things... and my dad took them into the fridge/kitchen | 23:56 |
| LjL | ... while still wearing the gloves. | 23:56 |
| tinwhiskers | I have a first-flush device that diverts initial rainfall away from the tank, but it's broken now so I manually connect up the pipe. However I haven't been doing that recently either so I'm getting poop and all. The fact the tank is quite big and viruses don't last forever makes things a bit safer, and my drinking water is filtered through a berkey black filter than removes viruses. | 23:56 |
| tinwhiskers | Cooking and washing water comes straight from the tank though. | 23:57 |
| LjL | ewew | 23:57 |
| tinwhiskers | Most people in this country who use rain water don't have a first flush device. In fact, I've never met anyone here who evern knew what one was. | 23:57 |
| LjL | i don't know what it is (well, i sort of do based on your description now) | 23:57 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/worldnews: More than 700k people sign petition that call for the resignation of Ghebreyesus, WHO director general (10422 votes) | https://redd.it/fuys4r | 23:58 |
| LjL | but i also don't rely on rain water :P | 23:58 |
| LjL | aw poor Ghebhoweveritsspelled, he just gave people terrible directions that cause the death of many because he's a bureaucrat surrounded by bureaucrats! | 23:58 |
| LjL | and also he kept saying some things that might have helped if any government had listened at all | 23:59 |
| LjL | very selective listening there | 23:59 |
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