| graphine | i have to make sure to add some of you do my list | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| graphine | they are already talking about exit strategies here | 00:02 |
| stinkpot | according to some paper i read italians and spaniards have relatively low vitamin D levels | 00:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:55 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: confirmed global cases pass 1.5m as Boris Johnson leaves intensive care → https://is.gd/IObF5N | 00:02 |
| stinkpot | they may need to eat more oily fish like pickled herring | 00:03 |
| graphine | need to eat more margerine than | 00:03 |
| stinkpot | lol | 00:03 |
| pwr22 | graphine: yeah I agree, it's good in here! | 00:03 |
| graphine | yes pwr22 | 00:03 |
| stinkpot | yeah best channel graphine! | 00:03 |
| graphine | even the stinkpots in here are nice | 00:03 |
| graphine | ;-) | 00:03 |
| graphine | man this beer taste really different | 00:04 |
| tinwhiskers | Looks the the exit strategy here in Tonga might be relatively simple: Tonga is one of 18 countries in the world that is CoViD-19 free after the Minister of Health announced yesterday the latest group of five people to be quarantined on suspicion of having Covid-19 had been cleared and released. | 00:04 |
| tinwhiskers | We may be back to life as usual but without any tourists | 00:04 |
| RamBadanSingh[m] | rager: Corporate media lossing, social media winning! | 00:05 |
| graphine | in the news they said they think that in my hometown the real cases are 7 times higher than the official ones | 00:05 |
| tinwhiskers | graphine: that's probably about right | 00:05 |
| graphine | yes | 00:05 |
| graphine | thats still okay for now | 00:05 |
| graphine | today was my last shopping day for some time | 00:06 |
| LjL | stinkpot, hmm, how do you figure that? the paper studies three cases, but it doesn't try to make any statistic on the prevalence | 00:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2119 cases (now 1596433), +359 deaths (now 95421), +186 recoveries (now 355383) since 47 minutes ago — US: +1162 cases (now 463433), +56 deaths (now 16504) since 47 minutes ago — Spain: +776 cases (now 153222), +209 deaths (now 15447) since 47 minutes ago | 00:06 |
| graphine | if mom does not need anything else | 00:06 |
| graphine | thanks for you pushing me to wear a mask | 00:06 |
| graphine | so i did | 00:06 |
| graphine | ffp1 one only but better than nothing | 00:07 |
| tinwhiskers | graphine: nice | 00:07 |
| graphine | yeah but it gets wet easily | 00:08 |
| stinkpot | ljl: "However, clinical cases with rare symptoms such as olfactory dysfunction have not been reported so far in China" | 00:08 |
| tinwhiskers | when I went into town I was the only person wearing a mask. I felt a bit silly but also thought I could hardly preach about masks without following up. Now that it looks like we're in the clear though I may stop | 00:08 |
| graphine | i am think of putting vaccum cleaner fleece in it | 00:08 |
| stinkpot | the way they talk about it makes it sound pretty uncommon ljl | 00:08 |
| stinkpot | although yeah there are varying levels of anosmia | 00:08 |
| LjL | stinkpot, that just tells me that they haven't been reported, quite possibly because they were a lot busier trying to make people not die... but now there's been enough talk of these olfactory symptoms, i assume it's been more than 3 patients having them | 00:09 |
| graphine | tinwhiskers, yes but in my store some wear masks and it starts to improve and you are right if you dont wear it for yourself wear it for all the others | 00:09 |
| stinkpot | yeah that's what i was thinking. very hard to test people for anosmia with those style of ventilators that put a plastic bag over one's head | 00:09 |
| RamBadanSingh[m] | Is Covid-19 dangerous? | 00:11 |
| graphine | i think tommorrow i will try to paint a huge rabbit / bunny with a mask and put it into the window for easter if it has become well enough | 00:11 |
| LjL | RamBadanSingh[m], uh... most definitely yet? | 00:11 |
| LjL | yet* | 00:11 |
| LjL | ... | 00:11 |
| LjL | most definitely y e s. | 00:11 |
| stinkpot | covid is dangerous because it seems to put people in the hospital at a high rate | 00:11 |
| tinwhiskers | graphine: I'm so glad to hear that. If everyone can convince a few people of that we'll be a lot better off. Hopefully we can make the mask message more viral than the coronavirus. | 00:11 |
| graphine | you did a good job | 00:12 |
| graphine | tinwhiskers, | 00:12 |
| graphine | and some of the others | 00:12 |
| graphine | i do not mind to be convinced with the right pros and cons | 00:12 |
| graphine | living is learning | 00:13 |
| graphine | and for us all my wish is that we will have very much life left :-) | 00:13 |
| graphine | because life is FUN !!! | 00:13 |
| RamBadanSingh[m] | In India mainly cities are affected by Covid-19, will it spread to rural region? | 00:14 |
| _io_ | https://nationalpost.com/news/world/wuhan-is-returning-to-life-so-are-its-disputed-wet-markets/amp | 00:14 |
| graphine | this beers goes for all the poor people that already died on covid19 you are not forgotten! | 00:14 |
| graphine | beer | 00:14 |
| tinwhiskers | cheers | 00:14 |
| graphine | cheers | 00:15 |
| graphine | i rarely drink i thought two beers are okay tonight | 00:15 |
| Birosso | RamBadanSingh[m]: I don't know if anyone here can answer that. We can always speculate, though. | 00:15 |
| graphine | hi Birosso | 00:16 |
| tinwhiskers | We can answer that. Yes, it will spread to rural areas. | 00:16 |
| Birosso | HI! | 00:16 |
| LjL | RamBadanSingh[m], it will most likely spread everywhere, as it's pretty contagious, unless the lockdown is respected very much. but even if it is, it has to end at some point. | 00:16 |
| tinwhiskers | Particularly given the mass exodus from the cities in India of people going home to their villages, that process is already well underway. | 00:17 |
| RamBadanSingh[m] | Has Covid-19 spread through airplanes? | 00:17 |
| graphine | yes i agree tinwhiskers | 00:17 |
| pwr22 | A little topical humour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lr_tEdQvFcc | 00:17 |
| pwr22 | %title | 00:17 |
| Brainstorm | pwr22: From www.youtube.com: Coronavirus Rhapsody by Queen | COVID-19 Karaoke - YouTube | 00:17 |
| graphine | even in the rural areas of the usa all is just to connected | 00:17 |
| Birosso | RamBadanSingh[m]: If you mean through people flying on airplanes, then yes. | 00:17 |
| Birosso | Among other things. | 00:17 |
| tinwhiskers | RamBadanSingh[m]: of course... I'm getting suspicious about the nature and motivation for your questions. | 00:18 |
| graphine | tinwhiskers, i guess only real isolation could stop the spread somewhat but that is hard to happen and in the usa eg people still go to churches | 00:19 |
| Birosso | tinwhiskers: Are you suspecting another #co****acy nutjob? | 00:19 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 00:19 |
| tinwhiskers | graphine: yeah | 00:19 |
| Birosso | That heh is so passive-aggressive. | 00:19 |
| tinwhiskers | :-) | 00:19 |
| stinkpot | lol | 00:20 |
| graphine | i expected more people to be preppers in the usa tinwhiskers | 00:20 |
| Birosso | This is NOT okay. | 00:20 |
| graphine | my mom is the exact opposite of a prepper lol | 00:20 |
| tinwhiskers | graphine: maybe they're all in their bunkers and we just don't hear from them? | 00:20 |
| graphine | born during ww2 she never really panics | 00:20 |
| graphine | yes maybe | 00:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2826 cases (now 1599259) since 20 minutes ago — US: +1646 cases (now 465079) since 20 minutes ago — New York, US: +1567 cases (now 161504) since 20 minutes ago | 00:21 |
| graphine | so i am the guys who usually has at least enough cans pasta and tomate sauce in the kitchen | 00:21 |
| graphine | i am usually just to lazy to shop all the time lol | 00:21 |
| RamBadanSingh[m] | Why we need to go to church, temple or mosque? Even if know that they were built by elites to control the masses. | 00:22 |
| graphine | i do not know maybe you need it i you are very religious i do not blame such people | 00:22 |
| graphine | but if there is god he wont be mad if you stay home to save the live of your familiy and your life | 00:23 |
| MinceR | most religions were invented to control the masses | 00:23 |
| MinceR | "do what i say or my invisible friend will torture you forever. but he loves you!" | 00:23 |
| graphine | i leave it up to the religious people | 00:23 |
| graphine | its fine with me | 00:24 |
| tinwhiskers | let's not be trolled into this discussion by the provocative comments from RamBadanSingh[m] | 00:24 |
| graphine | i am open minded | 00:24 |
| graphine | i do not have internet at home | 00:25 |
| tinwhiskers | really. where are you now? | 00:25 |
| graphine | home | 00:25 |
| graphine | the mobile providers decreased the throttling of mobile flats | 00:26 |
| tinwhiskers | oh. yeah, I only have mobile too. | 00:26 |
| graphine | for free so all people are able to watch latest corona news | 00:26 |
| tinwhiskers | sweet | 00:26 |
| graphine | that was nice | 00:26 |
| graphine | yes | 00:26 |
| graphine | at least 384 not 56 | 00:26 |
| LjL | we don't have "flats" in the sense of unlimited gigabytes (or if we have them, they're super expensive), but some mobile operators are giving unlimited data for free now | 00:26 |
| LjL | (not mine!) | 00:26 |
| graphine | yes LjL | 00:26 |
| graphine | same here they just call it flat because its phone flat | 00:27 |
| RamBadanSingh[m] | <tinwhiskers "let's not be trolled into this d"> Masks has fallen! | 00:27 |
| graphine | i do have 3gb internet and phone flat for 8 euros | 00:27 |
| Birosso | Germany. | 00:27 |
| graphine | thats okay for me | 00:27 |
| graphine | yes | 00:27 |
| graphine | is that bad? | 00:28 |
| graphine | Birosso, | 00:28 |
| Birosso | Bad? | 00:28 |
| graphine | ? | 00:28 |
| graphine | good? | 00:28 |
| Birosso | 8 Euros for that is *very* good. | 00:28 |
| graphine | yes | 00:28 |
| Birosso | Yaes. | 00:28 |
| RamBadanSingh[m] | <graphine "i do have 3gb internet and phone"> You are stupid! | 00:28 |
| graphine | lol | 00:28 |
| Birosso | I sense a +q coming. | 00:28 |
| graphine | i am stupid for sure i am german :-p | 00:28 |
| Birosso | There it is. | 00:28 |
| graphine | lol tinwhiskers | 00:28 |
| graphine | you have been patient enough | 00:29 |
| graphine | you are really fair tinwhiskers | 00:29 |
| Birosso | All hail | 00:29 |
| Birosso | tinwhiskers. | 00:29 |
| tinwhiskers | :-p | 00:29 |
| graphine | i like that you gave him a chance at least | 00:29 |
| graphine | he didnt take it so ... | 00:29 |
| graphine | Birosso, how much is it where you are? | 00:30 |
| tinwhiskers | oh, he's on matrix. umm. oh well. | 00:30 |
| Birosso | You have the memory of a goldfish. | 00:30 |
| Birosso | I'm in Germany too. | 00:30 |
| graphine | lol | 00:30 |
| graphine | yeah i am stupid | 00:30 |
| graphine | lol | 00:30 |
| graphine | my mom takes too much of my memory at the moment | 00:31 |
| graphine | lol | 00:31 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Because of Coronavirus fears, 93% of people interviewed in Hong Kong, Myanmar, Thailand and Vietnam would support their government closing all illegal and unregulated markets selling animals from the wild in their country. (10042 votes) | https://redd.it/fxwbye | 00:31 |
| graphine | it used to be much better | 00:31 |
| graphine | i hope that i will be able to draw something nice tomorrow | 00:32 |
| pwr22 | I'm on a pay as you go thing now | 00:32 |
| pwr22 | Does that actually mute him on the matrix side I wonder? | 00:32 |
| pwr22 | LjL: I think I can kick or ban him on matrix but don't think I can change him to a level where he can't speak | 00:32 |
| LjL-Matrix | nope | 00:32 |
| LjL-Matrix | i am here ;) | 00:32 |
| LjL-Matrix | waiting with popcorn | 00:32 |
| LjL-Matrix | pwr22: you can mute him, it's just the bridge doesn't bridge mutes | 00:33 |
| pwr22 | LjL: To mute them I'd need need to be able to change his power level but I can't, I think because you need to be admin to "change permissions" atm | 00:34 |
| LjL-Matrix | oh | 00:34 |
| LjL-Matrix | well that is a bit... dumb, on Matrix's side? | 00:34 |
| graphine | Birosso, aldi was the only store here that did at least some distancing and watch it | 00:34 |
| pwr22 | It shows me a kick and ban button, but nothing for muting | 00:35 |
| tinwhiskers | it's good that lots of people want to close illegal and unregulated wet markets, but the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market where this virus emerged was neither, so would that really help? | 00:35 |
| pwr22 | <LjL-Matrix "well that is a bit... dumb, on M"> You can change the required level for "change permissions" to "moderator" I think | 00:36 |
| tinwhiskers | A much more realistic approach would be to change the regulations on what can be sold there, not close it. | 00:36 |
| pwr22 | atm it is "admin" | 00:36 |
| pwr22 | As far as I'm aware, with that permission you can still only change it on someone <= your own power level | 00:37 |
| LjL-Matrix | pwr22: which means you can make other people mods. that's okay with me, but it's not a very clever thing to conflate these two permissions | 00:38 |
| graphine | Birosso, netto sucked all people just ran around like crazy | 00:38 |
| pwr22 | Hmm yeah, I might be misunderstanding the permissions to be sure. Would be best to consult the documentation | 00:39 |
| graphine | here one drunk customer asked the cashier if she is using now condoms more because of covid19 | 00:39 |
| graphine | i guess in nyc the cashier reaction would have been not that polite lol | 00:40 |
| LjL-Matrix | pwr22: that was also my guess, though. it's been changed now so suit yourself :P meanwhile i'll read up | 00:40 |
| pwr22 | Mute has appeared now so I guess it is so | 00:40 |
| pwr22 | Yeah, that's not a good approach | 00:40 |
| graphine | any suggestions for a good free podcast | 00:41 |
| graphine | i like to listen to audios when in bed | 00:42 |
| pwr22 | <LjL-Matrix "pwr22: that was also my guess, t"> I think I'll bring this up in the matrix room some time - it seems like quite the flaw. After all, muting someone should really be a "lesser" power than a ban right? | 00:42 |
| LjL-Matrix | pwr22: the only time "mute" appears in https://matrix.org/docs/guides/moderation is just a description of what we'd expect | 00:42 |
| pwr22 | I guess it's an implementation detail | 00:42 |
| LjL-Matrix | pwr22: well my guess is they didn't really have muting in mind at all, and it was added as an "oh we can just achieve that by giving people negative power" kind of afterthought | 00:43 |
| graphine | i didnt watch the matrix movies | 00:43 |
| graphine | i guess i should ha | 00:43 |
| pwr22 | <LjL-Matrix "pwr22: well my guess is they did"> Yeah, it's like they'd instead need to somehow have the server refuse events from a muted user in a room but not based on power level | 00:44 |
| pwr22 | graphine: aren't they making a new one or something? | 00:45 |
| graphine | dont know that pwr22 | 00:45 |
| LjL-Matrix | pwr22: on IRC, it was probably easy to add muting (it wasn't a feature of the original ircd) because banning itself doesn't even make people leave the channel, hence "kickban"... a ban just prevents them from speaking AND from joining. so a +q was created as just as +b without the latter restriction | 00:45 |
| pwr22 | lol, off they go | 00:46 |
| graphine | back in the days i guess there was just less need of kicking users right LjL-Matrix | 00:46 |
| pwr22 | As far as trolling goes - that wasn't great 🤷♂️ | 00:47 |
| LjL | pwr22, i'm not even fully convinced he was trolling, but i don't think we can deal with that level of cluelessness anyway | 00:48 |
| graphine | yeah maybe he was a tad on the roll | 00:48 |
| graphine | say when covid19 is past us one day | 00:50 |
| graphine | where do i find you guys than? | 00:50 |
| dunnp | how can you not have watched The Matrix | 00:51 |
| graphine | lol dunnp | 00:51 |
| graphine | sorry for being so low :-( dunnp | 00:51 |
| graphine | lol | 00:51 |
| VexToR | You are invited to attend a lecture and chat with Dr Gamme Martin @ irc.butt.es #GAMME https://imgur.com/a/RRqPUPf | 00:52 |
| LjL | didn't i ban you like twice | 00:53 |
| LjL | urgh | 00:54 |
| pwr22 | <graphine "where do i find you guys than?"> I'm pwr22 pretty much everywhere | 00:54 |
| dunnp | graphine: I wastched it in the theater for the first time and walking out it was like my life had changed forever | 00:54 |
| veirkov | hi | 00:54 |
| graphine | oki pwr22 | 00:54 |
| graphine | i guess than i have to watch it in the theatre too | 00:55 |
| graphine | not at home | 00:55 |
| dunnp | meh TVs now are emersive enough | 00:55 |
| pwr22 | graphine: especially on matrix | 00:55 |
| dunnp | I still had a black and white tv then | 00:55 |
| graphine | i have no tv here | 00:55 |
| graphine | lol | 00:56 |
| graphine | but i got apple pie out of the freezer tells grandmas apple pie that i do not believe | 00:56 |
| graphine | i did like lost in translation with bill murray which does not compare that much to the matrix i suppose | 00:57 |
| tinwhiskers | I've run out of meat and the sea is still too rough from tropical cyclone Harold last night to go out fishing. There is a bat colony a couple of hundred meters from my house... I wonder... | 00:57 |
| graphine | go veggie tinwhiskers | 00:58 |
| jester | bat soup | 00:59 |
| tinwhiskers | graphine: that sounds good in principle. | 00:59 |
| graphine | only in principle i suppose tinwhiskers | 00:59 |
| graphine | right? | 00:59 |
| tinwhiskers | mm | 00:59 |
| jester | wet markets open again in china | 01:00 |
| tinwhiskers | wet markets are open in every country that has a coast and catches fish | 01:01 |
| disillusion | even the United States? | 01:01 |
| graphine | did you like those resicent evil movies dunnp and pwr22 ? | 01:01 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm sure the US has fish markets | 01:02 |
| graphine | its called wet markets | 01:02 |
| graphine | have to remember | 01:02 |
| disillusion | speaking of blaming the Chinese for this virus, and a perceived need to cut off all contact with the Chinese: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/08/science/new-york-coronavirus-cases-europe-genomes.html | 01:03 |
| disillusion | "Most New York Coronavirus Cases Came From Europe, Genomes Show" | 01:03 |
| disillusion | "The research revealed a previously hidden spread of the virus that might have been detected if aggressive testing programs had been put in place. On Jan. 31, President Trump barred foreign nationals from entering the country if they had been in China during the prior two weeks." | 01:04 |
| tinwhiskers | the "wet market" in question, the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market is the largest fish market in central china | 01:04 |
| graphine | not fair to blame "chinese" or "europeans" in general | 01:04 |
| graphine | virus doesnt go for nationality | 01:05 |
| disillusion | how come no one is asking about the probability of getting infected with a virus at a Chinese seafood market? If it's not likely to happen, say a 500-year event, the rational thing to do is just accept that this kind of thing happens every 500 years. | 01:05 |
| tinwhiskers | that "wet markets" per se are open is of ZERO consequence. That they are still selling restricted wildlife would be an issue to be concerned about. | 01:05 |
| disillusion | it means the Chinese can continue doing things as they've done, since it's not going to happen again for another 500 years | 01:05 |
| mefistofeles | disillusion: that's not how it works, tbh | 01:06 |
| LjL | disillusion, SARS having been just a few years ago beats the odds a bit doesn't it | 01:06 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, we just don't have enough data to know what's the actual expected period for these things, and even so, the world dynamics change much faster than any model ... and there isn't a mode that can account for all the things that change in society | 01:07 |
| mefistofeles | *model | 01:07 |
| disillusion | wait so SARS originated in Chinese seafood markets? | 01:07 |
| disillusion | and having better government regulations of seafood in China would have prevented for SARS and covid-19? | 01:08 |
| tinwhiskers | also, on 22 January 2020, a ban on the sale of all wild animal products in Wuhan was announced by the Chinese government so we can really stop going on about these fish markets being reopened because it's meaningless. If people have evidence of banned animals still be sold there then that is interesting. | 01:08 |
| graphine | i guess only less travelling helps mefistofeles | 01:09 |
| disillusion | "The SARS epidemic appears to have started in Guangdong Province, China, in November 2002 where the first case was reported that same month. The patient, a farmer from Shunde, Foshan, Guangdong, was treated in the First People's Hospital of Foshan. " | 01:09 |
| graphine | but those top manager love to travel so it will always spread and explode mefistofeles | 01:09 |
| disillusion | SARS is "genetically traced to a colony of cave-dwelling horseshoe bats in China's Yunnan province" | 01:09 |
| LjL | disillusion, i don't know if it originated in a seafood market, but the two viruses are closely related and probably have their reservoirs both in bats | 01:10 |
| disillusion | so it sounds like the problem with the 2 viruses from China is bats, not seafood | 01:10 |
| ecov | .... | 01:10 |
| ecov | bats are sold at wet markets | 01:10 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, further demonstrating that diseases cross over from bats regardless of wet markets | 01:10 |
| mefistofeles | graphine: yes, but I do expect that economies will be less open now | 01:10 |
| graphine | i think we should just learn that hospitals and medical care is very important and so are labs and research and working together is great !!! | 01:10 |
| mefistofeles | so less trading | 01:10 |
| LjL | disillusion, you say all these very opinionated things, and you didn't know bats are kind of relevant to this thing? | 01:10 |
| ecov | LjL: he's a teen | 01:11 |
| graphine | i mean we seem to get along pretty well here | 01:11 |
| LjL | ecov, i'm not ageist | 01:11 |
| disillusion | LjL, this discussion is about Chinese seafood markets causing all this | 01:11 |
| mefistofeles | ecov: there's no evidence that this (or any other coronavirus) has been acquired directly from the bats | 01:11 |
| disillusion | I'm skeptical of the claim that it's all the fault of some unregulated (or under-regulated) seafood markets in China | 01:11 |
| ecov | "wet market" doesnt imply ONLY seafood | 01:11 |
| graphine | i hope europe will cooperate better in the future | 01:11 |
| ecov | all kinds of animals can be found in wet markets | 01:12 |
| mefistofeles | pangolins are the most probable vector, afaik | 01:12 |
| disillusion | it's also funny to hear capitalists claiming that The Communist Party of China needs to regulate small business owners more. | 01:12 |
| LjL | pfft | 01:12 |
| ecov | disillusion is a 16 year old who's already given up on free society | 01:12 |
| graphine | ouch | 01:13 |
| LjL | ecov, i am not really interested in who they are | 01:13 |
| disillusion | what does SARS have to do with wet markets? I'm not seeing a connection. | 01:13 |
| mefistofeles | disillusion: it was probably acquired in a meat market, as well | 01:13 |
| tinwhiskers | the sea food markets are a focal point for trade and so are statistically likely to be a point of origin, but if you close them the same trade will occur, but just more widely dispersed. Whether that would actually change the risk is highly questionable. Wherever you have people in close association with wild animals these things happen. playing whack-a-mole with potential outbreak locations is futile and that effort should be spent on | 01:14 |
| tinwhiskers | how to react to the outbreaks that will happen regardless. | 01:14 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, the first cases | 01:14 |
| graphine | being more prepared would have helped too i think mefistofeles | 01:14 |
| LjL | disillusion, i find it a strong indicator that bat viruses found in bats from China find a way to end up in humans more often than every 500 years | 01:14 |
| disillusion | mefistofeles, "probably"? | 01:14 |
| disillusion | LjL, what does the historical record show? | 01:15 |
| graphine | if one listens to LjL infos next time would we good to be prepared better | 01:15 |
| LjL | disillusion, not sure, i'm afraid we didn't have PCR tests until quite recently | 01:15 |
| disillusion | LjL, aren't there world-wide accounts of various outbreaks of unusual sicknesses? | 01:16 |
| graphine | i think i will get some real good masks if the price will go down and they will be available again | 01:16 |
| disillusion | there's got to be data somewhere | 01:16 |
| LjL | disillusion, there's the plague, but we know that's a bacterium. it's very possible that some of the other human coronaviruses, which now cause just common colds, were originally (one of them is believed to have first had humans as hosts around 1800) more virulent | 01:17 |
| graphine | did you see guys with gas masks there anywhere? | 01:17 |
| LjL | disillusion, in that case, 1800 would also be less than 500 years ago (although yes, i do realize an average of 500 years doesn't rule out having more than one outbreak over 500 years) | 01:17 |
| mefistofeles | disillusion: yes, it's not known but it's some animal reservoir different from bats | 01:17 |
| mefistofeles | it's thought to be that, I mean | 01:18 |
| disillusion | doesn't DNA tell us where the viruses come from? | 01:18 |
| mefistofeles | not DNA alone, no | 01:18 |
| LjL | things can be confounded by the fact that diseases with a "relatively" low fatality rate may not be as obvious as the plague in historical records | 01:18 |
| LjL | today COVID is a big deal, but that's partly because we don't otherwise... die so easily | 01:19 |
| tinwhiskers | DNA can tell you where it came from if you locate a wild population carrying the same virus, but that rarely happens. | 01:19 |
| disillusion | LjL, it's not know if The Plague came from China. It's only known that it traveled along the silk road. | 01:19 |
| tinwhiskers | cue the bat lady: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-chinas-bat-woman-hunted-down-viruses-from-sars-to-the-new-coronavirus1/ | 01:19 |
| LjL | disillusion, uh, i thought i just said that the plague was a bacterium so it can be ruled out, so i'm not sure why you're telling me about it not coming from China | 01:19 |
| disillusion | wikipedia says, "The Black Death probably originated in Central Asia or East Asia" | 01:20 |
| LjL | okay, now i don't know why saying that we can rule out the plague results in talking about the plague | 01:20 |
| disillusion | we had the Spanish Flu, which actually originated in Kansas, USA> | 01:21 |
| tinwhiskers | maybe | 01:21 |
| disillusion | MERS, which originated in the middle east | 01:21 |
| disillusion | mad cow disease, which the jolly ol' englishmen gave us | 01:21 |
| mefistofeles | malaria, zika, dengue, yellow fever... you name it ;) | 01:22 |
| ecov | which ones did the wiley eyed chinese give us | 01:22 |
| disillusion | ebola from Africa | 01:22 |
| mefistofeles | those are mosquito-related, though | 01:22 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm surprised we haven't seen anything emerge from relentless march into the south american rainforests | 01:22 |
| disillusion | lime disease from wherever | 01:22 |
| tinwhiskers | My guess is that the destruction is so complete there are no remaining reservoirs to catch it from | 01:23 |
| LjL | are we going to name all infectious diseases ever now | 01:23 |
| disillusion | yeah, lots of experts have been predicting an outbreak originating from South America some day | 01:23 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: good idea!! | 01:23 |
| graphine | outbreak from south america is SAMBA | 01:23 |
| graphine | :-) | 01:23 |
| mefistofeles | actually the Bill Gates foundation had this model of a coronavirus from pigs originating in Brazil, fwiw | 01:24 |
| tinwhiskers | ah | 01:24 |
| graphine | i am off to sleep thanks much for giving me such a great and enjoyable day with you nice people even if it is such a serious topic - take good care you all and stay healthy be back tomorrow | 01:25 |
| graphine | bye just for now | 01:25 |
| tinwhiskers | I think the problem is worse where you have people moving into new areas of the forest and in south america it tends to be entirely cleared for vast monocultures rather than small-scale farmers moving in. | 01:25 |
| mefistofeles | graphine: take care | 01:25 |
| LjL | graphine, goodnight | 01:25 |
| graphine | will do so | 01:25 |
| graphine | bye | 01:25 |
| graphine | nighty night | 01:25 |
| mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: what problem exactly? I missed it | 01:26 |
| tinwhiskers | the problem of novel zoonotic diseases arising | 01:26 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, don't worry, the climate change causes by the loss of the rainforest will indirectly bring us enough viruses to make up for the ones we don't catch directly from the rainforst | 01:26 |
| tinwhiskers | phew :-) | 01:26 |
| mefistofeles | ah ok, yes, probably... thugh why South America specifically? | 01:26 |
| mefistofeles | though* | 01:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 23:22 UTC: /u/slakmehl: ABC News Politics su Twitter: "“We have a very large country with really different patterns of disease and outbreaks in different parts of the country, so it’s not going to be a one size fits all,” Dr. Anthony Fauci says when asked about criteria for reopening the U.S. economy. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/QPiefL | 01:27 |
| LjL | because of Amazon + Bolsonaro | 01:27 |
| LjL | but mostly just Amazon + humans | 01:27 |
| LjL | as in the forest | 01:27 |
| mefistofeles | yes, but it s worse in Indonesia or similar, just saying | 01:27 |
| mefistofeles | though it hurts more in the Amazon, probably | 01:28 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, I was trying to explain why we haven't seen any emerge there despite the deep push into the rainforests that you'd normally expect us to meet up with novel diseases. | 01:28 |
| tinwhiskers | in indonesia there isn't such a push into new areas | 01:28 |
| mefistofeles | really? | 01:28 |
| tinwhiskers | maybe... | 01:29 |
| mefistofeles | ok... gonna get some rest as well | 01:30 |
| tinwhiskers | we should have stumbled across a bunch of new diseases in south america given the vast areas we have moved into. | 01:30 |
| mefistofeles | good night | 01:30 |
| tinwhiskers | gn | 01:30 |
| tinwhiskers | but, yeah, indonesia does seem like another likely place | 01:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:31 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: confirmed global cases pass 1.5m as Boris Johnson leaves intensive care → https://is.gd/IObF5N | 01:39 |
| PlanckWalk | Quick, put him back in intensive care so that the confirmed global cases drop below 1.5M again! | 01:39 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 01:41 |
| PlanckWalk | But seriously, the second part is good news | 01:41 |
| tinwhiskers | that "as" headline trend really bugs me | 01:41 |
| tinwhiskers | it really just means "and in unrelated news" | 01:41 |
| PlanckWalk | "Woman eats salad as thousands more die of COVID-19" | 01:42 |
| tinwhiskers | exactly | 01:42 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2390 cases (now 1602393), +147 deaths (now 95665), +270 recoveries (now 355660) since an hour ago — US: +1729 cases (now 466969), +124 deaths (now 16636), +177 recoveries (now 25316) since an hour ago — Colorado, US: +547 cases (now 6202) since an hour ago | 01:54 |
| pwr22 | I've just been making a DIY mask from a tshirt and some kitchen roll | 01:55 |
| linext | i was wondering if shop towels would work for a mask | 01:56 |
| tinwhiskers | linext: should do. Pretty much anything will work. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_the_Efficacy_of_Homemade_Masks_Would_They_Protect_in_an_Influenza_Pandemic#pf7 | 01:58 |
| tinwhiskers | t-shirts are pretty good. | 01:58 |
| linext | shop towels are made partially of cloth, so they are pretty soft and comfortable | 01:58 |
| tinwhiskers | also, paper towels are really good if you can remove them and dispose of them. Some mask designs allow you to slip a paper towel between the two layers of fabric. | 01:59 |
| tinwhiskers | fwiw vacuum cleaner bags are pretty much on par with surgical masks | 02:00 |
| tinwhiskers | the good thing about t-shirts, being stretchy is that they make a really good fit over your face compared to the less stretchy materials. | 02:01 |
| tinwhiskers | I made a couple of these masks and I think they're actually kinda stylin' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUasSmReIVo | 02:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus* at 23:49 UTC: Coronavirus: New Mexico using cell phone data to track movement of people within state, governor says → https://is.gd/ppnkOw | 02:04 |
| Toadisattva | vacuum bags are win | 02:04 |
| jester | https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/diy-face-mask-materials-best-180552062.html?guccounter=1 | 02:10 |
| jester | https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html | 02:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 00:10 UTC: nCoV: Israeli COVID-19 treatment shows 100% survival rate - preliminary data | 09APR20 → https://is.gd/jkIrdL | 02:16 |
| tinwhiskers | That's a very suspicious headline | 02:16 |
| tinwhiskers | Six critically ill coronavirus patients in Israel who are considered high-risk for mortality have been treated with Pluristem’s placenta-based cell-therapy product and survived, according to preliminary data provided by the Haifa-based company. | 02:17 |
| tinwhiskers | mmmhmmm | 02:17 |
| PlanckWalk | I prayed for a coronavirus patient from halfway across the world and they survived. (Full discolsure: I didn't) | 02:21 |
| Toadisattva | prayer works, but only prayers to ganesh | 02:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1677 cases (now 1604070) since 37 minutes ago — US: +1597 cases (now 468566) since 37 minutes ago — Texas, US: +1196 cases (now 11426) since 37 minutes ago | 02:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:20 UTC: Coronavirus live news: global deaths near 95,000 as Boris Johnson leaves intensive care: 16.8 million Americans out of work; French deaths pass 12,000; South Africa extends lockdown by a fortnight. Follow the latest updates. → https://is.gd/BFm4Rq | 02:28 |
| tinwhiskers | to be fair prayer has shown to be remarkably good at curing people, but only if they know they are being prayed for, and only in line with amazing power of the placebo. | 02:29 |
| zirpu | my invisible friend ignores all prayers. | 02:30 |
| tinwhiskers | :-( | 02:30 |
| Toadisattva | placebo is the best drug ever | 02:33 |
| Toadisattva | it cures everything... sometimes | 02:33 |
| tinwhiskers | A new paper in early release is suggesting the R0 may in fact be around 5.7 (WTF!). A high R0 like this means that a very high proportion of the population (>80%) would need to be infected (or vaccinated) to achieve herd immunity. https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0282_article | 02:34 |
| tinwhiskers | This would also mean that vast numbers of asymptomatic cases would be unlikely (no surprise there). | 02:35 |
| tinwhiskers | erm. Maybe I need to recant that last comment. | 02:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Did I get that completely backwards? | 02:37 |
| stinkpot | i don't get how R0 affects herd immunity | 02:37 |
| stinkpot | hmm i always thought it would be independent | 02:38 |
| tinwhiskers | they work out to be pretty much an inverse of each other | 02:38 |
| stinkpot | wow interesting. i just always assumed that they were independent | 02:38 |
| tinwhiskers | If R0 is large, herd immunity protects only if many are immune. - https://www.verywellhealth.com/some-diseases-spread-some-dont-how-to-know-which-will-1958758 | 02:39 |
| iz | herd immunity doesn't really mean everyone gets infected, it's that enough people are immune that it is unlikely to transmit between enough people to get to those who aren't | 02:39 |
| tinwhiskers | no, I didn't mean too imply that | 02:40 |
| tinwhiskers | herd immunity only takes effect *when* many people are infected if R0 is high | 02:40 |
| iz | i know, but i think perhaps that's what stinkpot thought and why he thought they wouldn't be connected | 02:40 |
| tinwhiskers | I see | 02:40 |
| stinkpot | i see now that R0 is basically like mean free path of a gas or plasma | 02:41 |
| stinkpot | if the mean free path is higher, you need a higher percentage of your population immune in order to keep the average 'hit rate' (the rate at which the virus hits an unimmunized person) below whatever threshold | 02:42 |
| Birrosso | tinwhiskers: You should be ashamed of yourself. | 02:44 |
| tinwhiskers | hrm. ok. so a higher R0 with the current death rate would suggest there is more asymptomatic transfer than previously thought, right? | 02:46 |
| stinkpot | estimating R0 is the same as estimating the # of untested positives from the # of tested positives | 02:47 |
| stinkpot | and the only way that i see that you estimate either of those quantities is by measuring mutation rate | 02:48 |
| tinwhiskers | I don't think mutation is important here | 02:48 |
| stinkpot | hmm | 02:48 |
| Birrosso | hmm | 02:49 |
| stinkpot | it's because we know something already about the mutation rate of similar viruses | 02:49 |
| stinkpot | wait i'm missing something | 02:49 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, so if true this supports the idea asymptomatic spread is higher than what has been widely claimed by experts until now. | 02:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 00:40 UTC: Coronavirus: Pandemic hits sick children hospital trips - leaked email: Children with illnesses unrelated to Covid-19 are being treated too late, NHS official's leaked email says. → https://is.gd/bX3rXs | 02:52 |
| tinwhiskers | only in as much as that the estimates of asymptomatic spread are base don R0 and this has now potentially changed. | 02:52 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: didn't iceland report absurd numbers of asymptomatic cases | 02:55 |
| tinwhiskers | Spec: did they? | 02:55 |
| tinwhiskers | oh, what'd they say? | 02:55 |
| Spec | https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/01/europe/iceland-testing-coronavirus-intl/index.html | 02:56 |
| tinwhiskers | 50% is not a lot at all | 02:56 |
| tinwhiskers | that means for every symptomatic case there is one that is not symptomatic | 02:57 |
| tinwhiskers | people are talking about 10 times as many asymptomatic cases as symptomatic | 02:57 |
| Spec | doesn't sound like they can draw a hard conclusion with their methods | 02:58 |
| Spec | oh, 10x is a lot | 02:58 |
| Spec | i bet that is wishful thinking | 02:58 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 02:58 |
| Spec | especially with the icelandic results in mind :P | 02:58 |
| tinwhiskers | yes | 02:58 |
| tinwhiskers | thanks | 02:58 |
| Spec | i'm not keen on trusting CDC | 02:59 |
| tinwhiskers | fair :-) | 02:59 |
| Spec | i suspect they will publish things more in favor to back presidental feelings than science | 02:59 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, quite possibly | 02:59 |
| danielp3344 | Isn't that the case for a lot of government organizations? | 03:00 |
| tinwhiskers | depends on the country | 03:00 |
| tinwhiskers | in New Zealand, for example, you don't get that sort of shenanigans going on | 03:01 |
| tinwhiskers | we pride ourselves on being number one on the global transparency list and will throw ourselves on the sword to protect that. | 03:01 |
| tinwhiskers | well, not that precisely, but we value openness | 03:02 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: I guess I have no experience | 03:04 |
| danielp3344 | *experience with NZ | 03:04 |
| tinwhiskers | well, I think you're right. It does apply to a lot of govt orgs. | 03:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:47 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live: national death toll reaches 52 as police warn people to stay at home – latest updates → https://is.gd/IcORLl | 03:05 |
| jester | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQd_5as_cMY | 03:05 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: Is it a nice place to live? :P | 03:05 |
| pwr22 | Just ordered a sewing kit so I can do some better diy masks lol | 03:05 |
| tinwhiskers | ah, you know; it's a nice place. everywhere has good and bad things about it | 03:05 |
| danielp3344 | nice | 03:06 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: Are there good cars? | 03:06 |
| danielp3344 | Wherever I live I'm mainly concerned about access to cars, guns and cheap land | 03:07 |
| tinwhiskers | yank tanks are few and far between. teslas too | 03:07 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: what about JDM stuff? | 03:07 |
| tinwhiskers | well our gun laws are pretty relaxed but no CC. cars are cheap but small. land is pretty cheap depending where you want to live. | 03:07 |
| tinwhiskers | I wouldn't count any of those factors as better than the US though. | 03:08 |
| tinwhiskers | JDM? | 03:08 |
| danielp3344 | mmm | 03:08 |
| danielp3344 | tempting | 03:08 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: yeah but the US sucks for other reasons | 03:08 |
| pepee | %title https://riviste.fupress.net/index.php/subs/article/view/888 | 03:08 |
| Brainstorm | pepee: From riviste.fupress.net: A cohort of cancer patients with no reported cases of SARS-CoV-2 infection: the possible preventive role of Methylene Blue | Substantia | 03:08 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: Japanese Domestic Market | 03:08 |
| tinwhiskers | well, lack of CC is better than the US. We don't see ourselves as gunslinging cowboys :-/ | 03:08 |
| danielp3344 | mmm wait, are you guys right hand drive? | 03:08 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 03:09 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, JDM | 03:09 |
| danielp3344 | so plenty of hondas and subarus and whatnot? | 03:09 |
| tinwhiskers | sure | 03:09 |
| danielp3344 | this doesn't sound too bad | 03:09 |
| tinwhiskers | ok, by US standards our gun laws are not at all relaxed | 03:10 |
| danielp3344 | well, can I bring my shotgun? | 03:11 |
| danielp3344 | 12Ga, 18.5" barrel | 03:11 |
| tinwhiskers | probably but semi-auto can't have more than 5 (?) shots now | 03:11 |
| danielp3344 | that's the only gun I actually own | 03:11 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: ouch, even here we have a 10 round cap | 03:12 |
| tinwhiskers | I have an over-under like a gentleman | 03:12 |
| danielp3344 | Do you guys register guns? | 03:12 |
| tinwhiskers | you don't have to | 03:12 |
| danielp3344 | That would be a deal breaker | 03:12 |
| danielp3344 | what does that mean? | 03:13 |
| tinwhiskers | the idea that you need to keep your guns secret from the gummerment because you might need to revolt is not really such a concern in NZ though, so it's not really the right way to think. | 03:13 |
| tinwhiskers | lots of people register their guns but there is no requirement to | 03:13 |
| danielp3344 | that's not what I was thinking but ok... | 03:13 |
| tinwhiskers | oh. ok | 03:13 |
| tinwhiskers | oh. ok | 03:14 |
| danielp3344 | If you know of any places where you dont need anything for cars that would be heaven for me | 03:14 |
| danielp3344 | constantly* | 03:14 |
| tinwhiskers | I don't | 03:14 |
| tinwhiskers | well, I'm in Tonga right now. Things are pretty lax here. Cars drive around with no doors, or floors, etc. | 03:16 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: even more random question, how bad are the regulations on airplanes/ultralight aircraft? | 03:16 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: my truck had no floors when I bought it | 03:17 |
| tinwhiskers | you can have ultarlights without a permit I think | 03:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:14 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China reports 42 new cases, 1 death: China's National Health Commission (NHC) said there were 42 new confirmed cases as of April 9, of which 38 were attributed to travelers coming from overseas. → https://is.gd/x2d1CJ | 03:17 |
| danielp3344 | <tinwhiskers "well, I'm in Tonga right now. Th"> Uganda is on my list also | 03:17 |
| tinwhiskers | lol | 03:17 |
| tinwhiskers | wild! | 03:17 |
| danielp3344 | Mainly because it seems kinda stable but the law is very minimal | 03:17 |
| tinwhiskers | rerally | 03:17 |
| tinwhiskers | interesting | 03:17 |
| danielp3344 | And I know some people ther | 03:17 |
| tinwhiskers | ok | 03:18 |
| danielp3344 | there* | 03:18 |
| tinwhiskers | so, here I lease this island for US$800 per year as an indicator of land prices | 03:18 |
| Spec | danielp3344: mmm and yellow fever | 03:18 |
| danielp3344 | ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 03:20 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: nice, lol | 03:20 |
| Spec | danielp3344: i've worked with some people from uganda gov before :) | 03:20 |
| tinwhiskers | you can a vaccination for yellow fever, right? | 03:20 |
| danielp3344 | how big is it? | 03:20 |
| Spec | i was set to go there, from kenya, but did not because i returned early to the states for my elder brother's wedding | 03:20 |
| Spec | tinwhiskers: sometimes, we were out of them. i had to sign up for an "experimental" eu version of it | 03:21 |
| tinwhiskers | danielp3344: the island is 25 acres. I only lease part of the island. I have a neighbour down the other end of island. | 03:22 |
| nb | %cases tonga | 03:22 |
| Brainstorm | nb: Sorry, tonga not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 03:22 |
| tinwhiskers | we have no cases | 03:22 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: cool | 03:23 |
| danielp3344 | I live on 25 acres currently, but it's my parent's | 03:23 |
| tinwhiskers | nice. I think I've run across you elsewhere :-) | 03:23 |
| danielp3344 | ? | 03:24 |
| danielp3344 | So what's it like getting stuff shipped to you? | 03:25 |
| tinwhiskers | a fucking disaster | 03:25 |
| danielp3344 | I think the hardest part of moving somewhere more remote would be no longer living 10 minutes from a hardware store :/ | 03:26 |
| danielp3344 | quarantine has made that bad enough, but I only have to wait like a week for stuff | 03:26 |
| tinwhiskers | there's a 2 hardware stores on the mainland but they are really not very good. | 03:26 |
| danielp3344 | Given enough scrap metal and welding wire I can make most things :p | 03:27 |
| danielp3344 | I'll bbl | 03:28 |
| tinwhiskers | ordering stuff from china usually takes about 6-8 weeks to arrive in Tonga, but then when it hits the postal system here is when things start going wrong. There is an unusual inability manage anything that requires any sort or organisation. So the post office just has a big pile of parcels on the floor. When you ask if you have any mail they declare you don't without even looking. | 03:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 01:21 UTC: /u/seewolfmdk: DW News su Twitter: "The speed of the #coronavirus outbreak has left corpses uncollected in homes and on the streets of Ecuador.… " → https://is.gd/tsayfA | 03:29 |
| tinwhiskers | So I got a package after 13 months and another after 15 months. There are stories of people getting favour with the post office officials using fried chicken (buying lunch goes a long way here). And after an exhaustive search they found their package under a table leg being used to level the table. | 03:30 |
| danielp3344 | or.... not | 03:30 |
| nb | Wow | 03:30 |
| danielp3344 | lol nice | 03:30 |
| tinwhiskers | about a third of my packages have just disappeared without trace so it's not advisable to buy expensive things :-) | 03:30 |
| danielp3344 | sounds like I could work for the postal service :P | 03:31 |
| nb | since I think .to is Tonga | 03:31 |
| tinwhiskers | there are more nefarious sites using .to domains than there are people in tonga | 03:31 |
| nb | yeah | 03:31 |
| danielp3344 | whatever | 03:31 |
| nb | I usually use nb.zone or going to move to nb.mba now probably | 03:32 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: so what do you do with yourself most of the time? | 03:32 |
| tinwhiskers | hang out on irc :-/ | 03:32 |
| Birosso | Sounds like you don't like us. | 03:33 |
| kPa | there are worse places to be than IRC, that's for sure | 03:33 |
| Birosso | I'm taking this *very* personally. | 03:33 |
| danielp3344 | no projects/work/stuff? | 03:33 |
| Birosso | Yes, like Discord. | 03:33 |
| tinwhiskers | fishing, gardening, computer stuff, not much electronics stuff these days | 03:33 |
| Birosso | A great idea, ruined by weebs. | 03:33 |
| tinwhiskers | danielp3344: nah, no work. bum | 03:33 |
| danielp3344 | I'm basically trying to find a place where I can live very cheaply, buy hardware and raw materials easily and forget the outside world exists (except for IRC) to work on projects | 03:34 |
| tinwhiskers | there's always stuff that needs fixing when you're on an island from solar sustem, to boats, tools, etc. and always a lot of weeds to clear from the garden. | 03:34 |
| tinwhiskers | entire trees can grow in a year. it's madness | 03:35 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: I've always wanted to build a wood gas turbine to power a whole house | 03:35 |
| danielp3344 | but solar works too | 03:35 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: maybe I could visit lol | 03:36 |
| danielp3344 | this sounds like a lot of fun | 03:36 |
| tinwhiskers | have you considered rural cambodia? | 03:36 |
| tinwhiskers | or rural vietnam | 03:36 |
| tinwhiskers | super cheap, super good! | 03:36 |
| danielp3344 | I have not | 03:36 |
| danielp3344 | I'm thinking if I ever save up some money I want to spend a year treking around the world to find a decent place to live | 03:37 |
| tinwhiskers | ah. hrm | 03:37 |
| kPa | are you at least a little small on asian food? | 03:38 |
| danielp3344 | tinwhiskers: also, methinks it might be a bit close to china | 03:42 |
| danielp3344 | mexico might work, although it's not as rural as africa | 03:43 |
| LjL | %title https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/09/999015/blood-tests-show-15-of-people-are-now-immune-to-covid-19-in-one-town-in-germany/ | 03:48 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.technologyreview.com: Blood tests show 14% of people are now immune to covid-19 in one town in Germany | MIT Technology Review | 03:48 |
| ynhof[m] | Daniel Peterson that sounds interesting. Any region of the world in particular? | 03:50 |
| danielp3344 | yn×hof: I'm thinking somewhere in Africa | 03:51 |
| LjL | “To me it looks like we don’t yet have a large fraction of the population exposed,” says Nicholas Christakis, a doctor and social science researcher at Yale University. “They had carnivals and festivals, but only 14% are positive. That means there is a lot more to go even in a hard-hit part of Germany.” | 03:51 |
| ynhof[m] | I want to know how this goes. That is an idea. | 03:52 |
| kPa | Additionally it's not clear how long of immunity recovering from it confers to you, or if you are still contagious after you've "recovered" | 03:52 |
| danielp3344 | it probably won't be for a few years :P | 03:52 |
| kPa | You're probably right | 03:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:35 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live: national death toll reaches 52 as police warn people to stay at home – latest updates → https://is.gd/IcORLl | 03:54 |
| hemimaniac | !corona CAN | 03:56 |
| CoronaBot | Canada: Global rank: #13, cases: 20,765, fatalities: 509, active cases: 14,945, total recovered: 5,311, in a serious condition: 518. Mortality: 2.45%, case fatality rate: 8.75%, cases/1M: 550.0, deaths/1M: 13.0. Case rate: 1,327/24h, death rate: 82/24h. Tests: 370,315, tests/1M: 9,812. | 03:56 |
| kPa | I was expecting the asymp. untested rate to be much higher | 03:59 |
| LjL | and i kept telling people who were expecting that, not to :P | 04:01 |
| LjL | it's a small study though | 04:01 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Japan to pay firms to leave China, relocate production elsewhere as part of coronavirus stimulus (10599 votes) | https://redd.it/fxz6qh | 04:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:01 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: South Korea reports 27 new cases as infections slow: The city of Daegu, which was South Korea's epicenter and had huge spikes in cases during the thick of the pandemic, reported no new cases. → https://is.gd/x2d1CJ | 04:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:09 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live: national death toll reaches 52 as police warn people to stay at home – latest updates → https://is.gd/IcORLl | 04:18 |
| tinwhiskers | danielp3344, kPa: from what I've read it's more likely that immunity *will* be for a few years, it's just that we're not sure yet. | 04:26 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, but also something something 30% of ex-patients tested had not developed meaningful amounts of IgG (but then i was told they may still have cell immunity) | 04:27 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, that's a worry. those people may not be immune for long | 04:27 |
| tinwhiskers | mostly young people too | 04:27 |
| tinwhiskers | The total amount in the blood (the titer) varied quite a bit between individuals – notably, younger patients had far lower levels than older ones did, which raises the question of how immune they really are. In fact, ten of those young patients had no detectable neutralizing antibodies at all (!) and overall, about 30% of the entire cohort failed to develop a high antibody titer (although they had similar disease progression before | 04:30 |
| tinwhiskers | their recovery). This presumably means that other parts of the immune system played a greater role in clearing the virus, which is fine – except that those long-lasting antibodies and memory B cells are the key to staying immune. | 04:30 |
| LjL | yeah, that | 04:30 |
| tinwhiskers | I think that's from here (but too lazy to confirm) https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047365v1 | 04:30 |
| LjL | already checked that | 04:31 |
| LjL | it's chinese to me | 04:31 |
| tinwhiskers | :-) | 04:31 |
| tinwhiskers | I preferred the nice summary as well | 04:31 |
| ryouma | do t cells have a role in adaptive immunity to such things? | 04:32 |
| tinwhiskers | yuri would be the person to answer that | 04:33 |
| ryouma | also can it stay hidden anywhere in the body | 04:34 |
| ryouma | or was taht idea demolished | 04:34 |
| tinwhiskers | I don't think it's been demolished | 04:36 |
| aderon2020 | %data canada | 04:41 |
| Brainstorm | aderon2020: In all areas, Canada, there are 20765 cases, 509 deaths (2.5% of cases), 5311 recoveries as of 7 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.8% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 8.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 04:41 |
| aderon2020 | %data usa | 04:42 |
| Brainstorm | aderon2020: In all areas, US, there are 468566 cases, 16691 deaths (3.6% of cases), 25928 recoveries as of 8 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 04:42 |
| ryouma | deaths as a proportion of recoveries seems high | 04:45 |
| nb | %data indiana | 04:45 |
| Brainstorm | nb: In Indiana, US, there are 6351 cases, 245 deaths (3.9% of cases), 0 recoveries as of 2 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 04:45 |
| ryouma | i mean, the ratio | 04:45 |
| nb | I think some jurisdictions don't report recoveries | 04:45 |
| nb | for example, i've not been able to find any detail on my state on recoveries | 04:45 |
| euod[m] | it's really hard to draw any conclusions because of the wild changes in the data | 04:46 |
| ryouma | i've thought all along that i couldn't make head or tails of the data as who knows what is reported, what cultural factors tehre are, health care system factors, test kits available, policy, etc. | 04:47 |
| LjL | ryouma, there's no obvious evidence it can stay in the body, but there's some tentative evidence it can get into the nervous system, which makes the idea not at all demolished | 04:50 |
| LjL | ignore recoveries, really | 04:50 |
| LjL | just ignore them, France (i think) just added like ten thousand of them in one go | 04:51 |
| ryouma | %data tonga | 04:51 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: Sorry, tonga not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 04:51 |
| ryouma | are any locations safe? e.g. there might be a bunch of islands. i dont mean antarctica or space station. | 04:52 |
| LjL | well... what about Tonga? :P | 04:53 |
| LjL | except you can't go there | 04:53 |
| ryouma | i am not looking to go to a safe place | 04:53 |
| ryouma | just wondering if there are any | 04:53 |
| tinwhiskers | Tonga is one of 18 countries that have no cases | 04:53 |
| ryouma | %data singapore | 04:53 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, Singapore, there are 1910 cases, 7 deaths (0.4% of cases), 460 recoveries as of 10 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Singapore for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 1.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 04:53 |
| ryouma | %data taiwan | 04:54 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, Taiwan, there are 380 cases, 5 deaths (1.3% of cases), 80 recoveries as of 11 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Taiwan for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.4% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 5.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 04:54 |
| ryouma | %data japan | 04:54 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, Japan, there are 4979 cases, 99 deaths (2.0% of cases), 685 recoveries as of 11 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Japan for time series data. Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 12.6% (considering only deaths and recoveries). | 04:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:40 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live: national death toll reaches 53 as police warn people to stay at home – latest updates → https://is.gd/IcORLl | 04:54 |
| LjL | well Tonga seems safe, pretty much everyone who could potentially be positive has tested negative, and there are no flights anymore, i understand | 04:54 |
| ryouma | %data hokkaido | 04:55 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: Sorry, hokkaido not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 04:55 |
| ryouma | %data hokkaidou | 04:55 |
| LjL | no subnational units for japan | 04:55 |
| tinwhiskers | Coincidentally of the 18 countries that have no confirmed cases none of them having any testing ability :-/ | 04:55 |
| LjL | ryouma, if you want lots of subnational units check out https://covidly.com/ | 04:55 |
| tinwhiskers | jk, but likely true | 04:55 |
| euod[m] | LjL: still chance of it crossing the border if there's anything transiting, sadly. | 04:55 |
| ryouma | all those billionaires who need refueling have to go to some port | 04:56 |
| ryouma | although i would not use fuel | 04:57 |
| LjL | time to grab opening supermarket delivery slots! | 04:57 |
| aderon2020 | solar, water, or air would be best solution in my opinion | 04:57 |
| aderon2020 | i would just go with all three if possible | 04:58 |
| aderon2020 | take care all and stay safe :) | 04:58 |
| ryouma | i don't see subunits on covidly | 04:58 |
| ryouma | (water?) | 04:59 |
| LjL | ryouma: maybe not for Japan. I just know it has them for many countries | 04:59 |
| tinwhiskers | https://covidly.com/?country=Japan&showStates=1 | 04:59 |
| ryouma | i only saw nations | 04:59 |
| tinwhiskers | you need to click the icon with four arrows pointing NW, NE SE, SW | 05:00 |
| LjL | Click on the icon next to the county name | 05:00 |
| tinwhiskers | oh. they have time series too... that's rather tempting | 05:01 |
| LjL | Scrapy scrapy? | 05:02 |
| tinwhiskers | mmm | 05:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:54 UTC: Coronavirus live news: global deaths pass 95,000 as 1 in 10 Americans lose their jobs: 16.8 million Americans out of work; French deaths pass 12,000; South Africa extends lockdown by a fortnight. Follow the latest updates. → https://is.gd/BFm4Rq | 05:07 |
| EricGrahamMacEac | https://www.statcan.gc.ca/eng/survey/household/5311-COVID-19 | 05:07 |
| LjL | Spec, is that literally "lose their job"? as in fired, not just as in temporarily at home? | 05:09 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Two black men say they were kicked out of Walmart for wearing protective masks. Others worry it will happen to them. (10017 votes) | https://redd.it/fxruuc | 05:16 |
| LjL | ... what | 05:19 |
| xrogaan | The Christians fear nuthing! | 05:23 |
| xrogaan | I expect a lot of nonsense coming from the USA. | 05:24 |
| xrogaan | And my previous statement isn't directed at all believers, just the ones insane enough to hold a mess with 500 people. | 05:24 |
| xrogaan | mass* | 05:25 |
| ryouma | the ganges is swum in too | 05:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:25 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: South Korea reports 27 new cases as infections slow: The city of Daegu, which was South Korea's epicenter and had huge spikes in cases during the thick of the pandemic, reported no new cases. → https://is.gd/x2d1CJ | 05:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1636 cases (now 1605706), +56 deaths (now 95769), +989 recoveries (now 356649) since 3 hours ago — Japan: +680 cases (now 5347), +53 recoveries (now 685) since 3 hours ago — US: +321 cases (now 468887), +612 recoveries (now 25928) since 3 hours ago | 05:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:39 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: South Korea reports 27 new cases; outbreak at Chicago's largest jail → https://is.gd/x2d1CJ | 05:43 |
| term99 | %data ohio | 05:58 |
| Brainstorm | term99: In Ohio, US, there are 5512 cases, 213 deaths (3.9% of cases), 0 recoveries as of 3 hours ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 05:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:00 UTC: Coronavirus live news: global deaths pass 95,000 as 1 in 10 Americans lose their jobs: Boris Johnson leaves intensive care; French deaths pass 12,000; South Africa extends lockdown by a fortnight. Follow the latest updates. → https://is.gd/BFm4Rq | 06:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:14 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live: national death toll reaches 53 as police warn people to stay at home – latest updates → https://is.gd/IcORLl | 06:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:19 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: South Korea reports 27 new cases; outbreak at Chicago's largest jail → https://is.gd/x2d1CJ | 06:32 |
| jester | https://covidtracking.com/data/us-daily | 06:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:30 UTC: Coronavirus live news: global deaths pass 95,000 as 1 in 10 Americans lose their jobs: Boris Johnson leaves intensive care; French deaths pass 12,000; South Africa extends lockdown by a fortnight. Follow the latest updates. → https://is.gd/BFm4Rq | 06:44 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: If U.S. reopens, we must prepare for coronavirus infections to "rear their heads again," Dr. Fauci says (10002 votes) | https://redd.it/fxyikx | 06:52 |
| ryouma | lose their jobs? | 07:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:01 UTC: Coronavirus latest: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak → https://is.gd/0UIJ5k | 07:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:19 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Germany cases jump more than 5,300; outbreak at Chicago's largest jail: The number of new confirmed cases in Germany continued the upward trend from the past few days. Infections jumped by 5,323 in the past 24 hours to a total of 113,525, according to data from the Robert Koch Institute for [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/x2d1CJ | 07:32 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: FDA tells Alex Jones to stop promoting unapproved, misbranded coronavirus cures online (10428 votes) | https://redd.it/fy4w99 | 07:58 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, man, another unsuccessful afternoon of fishing. | 07:59 |
| fltrz | tinwhiskers, with lockdowns birds are getting less dropped food in cities, so they flocked out and start fishing? | 08:00 |
| tinwhiskers | heh. maybe. it couldn't possibly be that I just suck at fishing... | 08:00 |
| ynhof[m] | I can confirm daily consecutive accounts of seeing large sea gull eating city pigeon for breakfast. | 08:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:00 UTC: The UK coronavirus lockdown by Guardian and Observer photographers: From an unusually quiet Millennium bridge to dawn swimmers on Portobello beach, the sights and ambience of lockdown → https://is.gd/cSeoVS | 08:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:21 UTC: Coronavirus live news: global deaths pass 95,000 as Easter begins under lockdown: Boris Johnson leaves intensive care; cases worldwide top 1.6m; UN chief says virus threatens global security. Follow the latest updates. → https://is.gd/BFm4Rq | 08:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:35 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Germany cases jump more than 5,300; outbreak at Chicago's largest jail: The number of new confirmed cases in Germany continued the upward trend from the past few days. Infections jumped by 5,323 in the past 24 hours to a total of 113,525, according to data from the Robert Koch Institute for [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/x2d1CJ | 08:41 |
| sneep | ynhof[m]: seagulls eating pigeons? really? | 08:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 06:51 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Farmaci utilizzati per il trattamento del Covid → https://is.gd/AzQPZ2 | 08:53 |
| L0NDONER | !covid | 08:57 |
| CoronaBot | Total cases: 1,605,712 (+2,060), deaths: 95,766 (+74), recovered: 356,977. Active cases: 1,152,969, 1,103,824 are in a mild condition, 49,145 are in a serious condition. Mortality: 5.96%, case fatality rate: 21.15%. Case rate: 85,568/24h, death rate: 7,233/24h. Last update: 5m ago. | 08:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 07:03 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Positività al test dopo la guarigione. → https://is.gd/X0eign | 09:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:14 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Germany cases jump more than 5,300; outbreak at Chicago's largest jail: The number of new confirmed cases in Germany continued the upward trend from the past few days. Infections jumped by 5,323 in the past 24 hours to a total of 113,525, according to data from the Robert Koch Institute for [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/x2d1CJ | 09:17 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2318 cases (now 1608766), +239 recoveries (now 357153) since 2 hours ago — Russia: +1786 cases (now 11917), +97 recoveries (now 795) since 2 hours ago — Ukraine: +311 cases (now 2203) since 2 hours ago | 09:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:40 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: Boris Johnson still in hospital as public urged to stay home for Easter → https://is.gd/SwE7j3 | 09:54 |
| Pxy | 祝安康！ | 09:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:55 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live: deputy chief medical officer warns of risks from restarting NRL too soon – latest updates → https://is.gd/IcORLl | 10:06 |
| sneep | Anybody else smelling random stuff everyday to check they haven't lose their sense of smell? | 10:13 |
| sneep | e=t | 10:14 |
| aradesh | not me | 10:16 |
| aradesh | i had a nasty cough in the night... but it seems to have gone now | 10:17 |
| aradesh | phew | 10:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:14 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Svezia → https://is.gd/sopRMK | 10:18 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: UK PM Johnson out of intensive care but remains in hospital (10003 votes) | https://redd.it/fxxogx | 10:35 |
| Biep[m] | <zirpu "local pot shop is out of my favo"> No pot luck.. | 10:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 08:36 UTC: Coronavirus: Boris Johnson must rest up, says PM's father: It comes as scientific adviser says the UK lockdown might eventually be lifted by age group and location. → https://is.gd/7BRtrS | 10:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:41 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: Boris Johnson still in hospital as public urged to stay home for Easter → https://is.gd/SwE7j3 | 10:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 09:06 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Piano Eurogruppo, Conte: 'Sul Mes la posizione non cambia. Gualtieri: 'Serve almeno un trilione' - Europa - ANSA.it → https://is.gd/gPwZtE | 11:07 |
| CatButtes[m] | sneep: I have toddlers. I’m always smelling random stuff. (Spoiler alert: its usually poop) | 11:17 |
| mefistofeles | lol | 11:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:15 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: global deaths pass 95,000 as Easter begins under lockdown → https://is.gd/BFm4Rq | 11:19 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2467 cases (now 1611233), +580 deaths (now 96400), +1458 recoveries (now 358611) since an hour ago — Belgium: +1684 cases (now 26667), +496 deaths (now 3019), +404 recoveries (now 5568) since an hour ago — Austria: +71 cases (now 13377), +824 recoveries (now 6064) since an hour ago | 11:20 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Coronavirus now leading cause of death in US (10024 votes) | https://redd.it/fxys0q | 11:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 09:25 UTC: /u/The_Fadge: Italia → https://is.gd/oqh2xz | 11:31 |
| featherx | hello | 11:34 |
| mefistofeles | hey | 11:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +4307 cases (now 1615540), +423 deaths (now 96823), +3787 recoveries (now 362398) since 20 minutes ago — Spain: +3800 cases (now 157022), +396 deaths (now 15843), +3503 recoveries (now 55668) since 20 minutes ago — Malaysia: +118 cases (now 4346), +222 recoveries (now 1830) since 20 minutes ago | 11:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:31 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: Boris Johnson still in hospital as public urged to stay home for Easter → https://is.gd/SwE7j3 | 11:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 09:55 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna → https://is.gd/hrrHlk | 11:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:00 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Germany cases jump more than 5,300; outbreak at Chicago's largest jail: The number of new confirmed cases in Germany continued the upward trend from the past few days. Infections jumped by 5,323 in the past 24 hours to a total of 113,525, according to data from the Robert Koch Institute for [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/x2d1CJ | 12:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:16 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: Boris Johnson still in hospital as public urged to stay home for Easter → https://is.gd/SwE7j3 | 12:32 |
| mefistofeles | omg, Brainstorm can be so annoying sometimes xD | 12:33 |
| jacklsw | oh well, at least he keeps us updated with the world coronavirus news | 12:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 10:33 UTC: Coronavirus: Boris Johnson must rest up, says PM's father: It comes as scientific adviser says the UK lockdown might eventually be lifted by age group and location. → https://is.gd/7BRtrS | 12:44 |
| mefistofeles | jacklsw: true | 12:44 |
| \n3p\ | What about the tigers with COVID-19. Is that confirmed? | 12:58 |
| mefistofeles | \n3p\: I think so, yes | 13:00 |
| \n3p\ | Any confirmed animal death from COVID-19? | 13:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:04 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: deaths in Spain start falling again as Easter begins under lockdown → https://is.gd/BFm4Rq | 13:08 |
| aradesh | i'm watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFeP9j1QmxU -- "Is China hiding a MASSIVE death toll from Coronavirus?" seems the answer is, "probably not" | 13:14 |
| \n3p\ | lol | 13:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3190 cases (now 1618730), +131 deaths (now 96954), +3320 recoveries (now 365718) since an hour ago — Iran: +1972 cases (now 68192), +122 deaths (now 4232), +3156 recoveries (now 35465) since an hour ago — Belarus: +495 cases (now 1981) since an hour ago | 13:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:23 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Germany cases jump more than 5,300; outbreak at Chicago's largest jail: The number of new confirmed cases in Germany continued the upward trend from the past few days. Infections jumped by 5,323 in the past 24 hours to a total of 113,525, according to data from the Robert Koch Institute for [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/x2d1CJ | 13:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:35 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: Boris Johnson still in hospital as public urged to stay home for Easter → https://is.gd/SwE7j3 | 13:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:48 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: deaths in Spain start falling again as Easter begins under lockdown → https://is.gd/BFm4Rq | 13:57 |
| jtech[m] | First and foremost covid 19 is a hoax. There is nothing going on. If not for the media panic, we woulddn't even notice if it existed | 14:00 |
| ecks | GOOD point | 14:00 |
| jtech[m] | If you're going to go by what shit-guardian says, soon you'll believe santa and 9/11 | 14:00 |
| jtech[m] | Thank you | 14:00 |
| jtech[m] | All you have to do is figure out how the testing works | 14:01 |
| jtech[m] | rt-pcr doesn't say what is the viral load, that's the first thing | 14:01 |
| L0NDONER | jtech[m]: youve been watching way too much David Iche :) | 14:01 |
| jtech[m] | Second, look at the death stats for season flu/pneuonia - they're LOWER then the same period last year | 14:02 |
| jtech[m] | No, I just have brain | 14:02 |
| ubLIX | good point, ecks? | 14:02 |
| jtech[m] | And by the way, point out please, where did Icke go wrong? | 14:02 |
| ecks | good as in the opposite of good | 14:02 |
| jtech[m] | At which moment? | 14:02 |
| jtech[m] | What remark is wrong? | 14:03 |
| jtech[m] | Did you compare statistics? | 14:03 |
| ubLIX | ecks: what does that.. i can't even | 14:03 |
| jtech[m] | For example for Italy or Spain versus Germany | 14:03 |
| jtech[m] | ublix - you showed your intellectual capacity in full "what does that.... I can't even", blah, blah blah | 14:03 |
| jtech[m] | you've got NOTHING | 14:03 |
| Jicemo | the death stats on pneumonia must have been influence some sort of big safety measure of some sort | 14:04 |
| ecks | also i would think that people more likely to die in influenza are more likely to die in covid-19 | 14:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Portugal: +1516 cases (now 15472) since 46 minutes ago — World: +1514 cases (now 1620244), +118 recoveries (now 365836) since 46 minutes ago | 14:05 |
| mefistofeles | heh | 14:08 |
| ubLIX | is still can't even, mefistofeles | 14:08 |
| ubLIX | *i | 14:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 12:03 UTC: Coronavirus: Boris Johnson must rest up, says PM's father: It comes as scientific adviser says the UK lockdown might eventually be lifted by age group and location. → https://is.gd/7BRtrS | 14:09 |
| ubLIX | LjL: perhaps review that quiet in case you want to repeat it on the matrix side? | 14:10 |
| mefistofeles | ok, going for a long walk, see you in 3-4 hours | 14:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:19 UTC: Coronavirus updates: Germany cases jump more than 5,300; outbreak at Chicago's largest jail: The number of new confirmed cases in Germany continued the upward trend from the past few days. Infections jumped by 5,323 in the past 24 hours to a total of 113,525, according to data from the Robert Koch Institute for [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/x2d1CJ | 14:21 |
| pwr22 | jtech: be nice please 🙂 | 14:25 |
| pwr22 | No need for insults | 14:25 |
| pwr22 | Well you're very close to getting muted or banned for how you're doing it | 14:27 |
| pwr22 | And this isn't really a channel for conspiracies or theories around covid-19 | 14:28 |
| pwr22 | No | 14:29 |
| pwr22 | Looks like you're already quieted on IRC and determined to carry on with this so I'm going to mute you here, sorry | 14:30 |
| pwr22 | Yes, yes I am | 14:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:27 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/m2krDC | 14:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2275 cases (now 1622519), +213 deaths (now 97214), +368 recoveries (now 366204) since 33 minutes ago — Netherlands: +1335 cases (now 23097), +115 deaths (now 2511) since 33 minutes ago — Sweden: +544 cases (now 9685), +77 deaths (now 870) since 33 minutes ago | 14:35 |
| L0NDONER | huh? | 14:35 |
| pwr22 | Just tried out the remove recent messages feature that riot has, pretty nice | 14:40 |
| ubLIX | too bad it doesn't work on irc | 14:41 |
| ubLIX | from over here that looked like a pretty lively conversation you were having with yourself, pwr22 | 14:41 |
| pwr22 | Ha ha | 14:43 |
| pwr22 | I'm going to ask the bridge Devs if they can bridge mutes and stuff | 14:44 |
| pwr22 | It leads to a split brain thing otherwise | 14:44 |
| ubLIX | you could do that with your bot, couldn't you? | 14:44 |
| ubLIX | if your bot is op'd, i mean | 14:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:45 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Corea del Sud → https://is.gd/rUnxUC | 14:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:53 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Scienza → https://is.gd/hswyX5 | 14:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 13:03 UTC: nCoV: Local man denied COVID-19 testing even with doctors referral → https://is.gd/PvyOCY | 15:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 13:09 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: deaths in Spain start falling again as Easter begins under lockdown → https://is.gd/BFm4Rq | 15:22 |
| aradesh | ouch. belgium had 496 deaths in the last 24 hours. country with a population of 11 million | 15:25 |
| aradesh | also, over 0.1% of san marino has died from it | 15:26 |
| aradesh | 34 deaths in a country of populatoin 33,000 | 15:27 |
| X-Scale | https://www.theguardian.com/global/video/2020/apr/10/aerial-video-shows-mass-grave-on-new-york-citys-hart-island-amid-coronavirus-surge-video | 15:28 |
| Phuketer | from Belgium. It's because the number of deaths of persons in rest homes aren't reported everyday. therefore, the number is biaised (excuse my english) | 15:28 |
| aradesh | ah i see | 15:29 |
| Oblomov32 | > Hoarding anything that may be essential for people at this time equates to killing them. | 15:30 |
| rplasmid | I mean what's the actual logical thing to do | 15:31 |
| rplasmid | if you have not been prepping from before | 15:31 |
| rplasmid | time to have some extra supplies on hand | 15:31 |
| rplasmid | the supply chains should have been antifragile | 15:32 |
| livebrain | The supply chains are good | 15:33 |
| livebrain | the problem are those who mass horde everything | 15:33 |
| Oblomov32 | if you see a society collapse to its knees because now everyone has just an extra set of tissue paper and snacks in their pantries you need to accept something is seriously wrong there | 15:34 |
| livebrain | and those who buy in bulk just to sell it again later at overpriced numbers | 15:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:28 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US cases top 466,000, British Prime Minister moved out of ICU → https://is.gd/LrJAJY | 15:34 |
| livebrain | even masks or alchohol... we see it again in stores selling for "normal" prices | 15:35 |
| livebrain | but we also see very recent online businesses that have thousands and thousends of them in stock | 15:35 |
| rplasmid | but the messaging has been schizo, one minute you are told to stock up 2 weeks worth | 15:37 |
| rplasmid | another you are told not to "panic buy" | 15:37 |
| livebrain | the message in my country is not to stock up | 15:37 |
| livebrain | its to avoid going out | 15:37 |
| rplasmid | exactly which means u need stocks | 15:37 |
| rplasmid | in order not to go out and buy stuff | 15:37 |
| rplasmid | too often | 15:37 |
| livebrain | food for 1 week | 15:38 |
| livebrain | is not spending 500 euros in rice | 15:38 |
| livebrain | my wife works in a supermarket and they are able to restock everything from one day to another | 15:38 |
| livebrain | but we keep seeing those who go and buy 50 toilet paper rolls | 15:38 |
| rplasmid | in my country there are limits on the amounts u can buy | 15:40 |
| rplasmid | 1 piece of any essential item | 15:40 |
| rplasmid | limits the "hording", means u have to go frequently | 15:40 |
| livebrain | this is not sustainable | 15:40 |
| livebrain | being home all the time | 15:40 |
| Oblomov32 | people are docile | 15:41 |
| Oblomov32 | the government shouldnt have such power | 15:41 |
| Oblomov32 | people should choose | 15:42 |
| livebrain | the problem with the virus is the stupidity of ppl | 15:42 |
| Oblomov32 | we arent children who need to be told when its "safe" | 15:42 |
| Oblomov32 | to do whatever | 15:42 |
| Oblomov32 | but hey whatever Bill Gates says | 15:43 |
| livebrain | and we see those who can afford to spend vacation on home | 15:43 |
| livebrain | saying "stayhome" | 15:43 |
| livebrain | well its easy for those who can afford staying home | 15:43 |
| Oblomov32 | exactly | 15:43 |
| livebrain | those o cant afford get the virus | 15:43 |
| livebrain | and get jailed ... | 15:43 |
| livebrain | and we see TV starts, footbalers etc etc | 15:43 |
| livebrain | saying "stayhome" for them its a party | 15:43 |
| livebrain | huge houses, pools, huge gardins | 15:44 |
| Oblomov32 | apparently those playing god with our lives are so out of touch with the rest of us they just dont get it | 15:44 |
| livebrain | and those who are rich saying "stayhome" for the masses is kinda | 15:44 |
| livebrain | protecting their investment, because the masses are the ones that pay their checks | 15:44 |
| livebrain | so they need the masses to stay home and healthy | 15:44 |
| livebrain | its being treated like kids | 15:45 |
| livebrain | some stupid tv start being patternalistic saying "stayhome" | 15:45 |
| livebrain | i would stay home no problem, if i had the money and the luxury to do so | 15:45 |
| livebrain | this will be the ruin of weaker economies | 15:46 |
| Oblomov32 | i guess they just want to create a welfare state | 15:48 |
| Oblomov32 | hard to protest for shit when you are being feed you know | 15:48 |
| Oblomov32 | feudalism 101 | 15:48 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1782 cases (now 1624301), +56 deaths (now 97270), +192 recoveries (now 366396) since an hour ago — US: +526 cases (now 469421) since an hour ago — Virginia, US: +467 cases (now 4509) since an hour ago | 15:50 |
| rplasmid | Government has a duty | 15:56 |
| rplasmid | people look to it for safety in times like this | 15:56 |
| rplasmid | in the end you have people in UK and aus paid by the government now instead of bosses | 15:56 |
| rplasmid | and they line up at the supermarkets for food | 15:56 |
| rplasmid | its breadlines | 15:56 |
| rplasmid | and the government in some countries tells which companies to make what say in spain | 15:56 |
| rplasmid | like a planned economy | 15:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:52 UTC: Coronavirus updates: Germany cases jump more than 5,300; outbreak at Chicago's largest jail: The number of new confirmed cases in Germany continued the upward trend from the past few days. Infections jumped by 5,323 in the past 24 hours to a total of 113,525, according to data from the Robert Koch Institute for [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/x2d1CJ | 15:58 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Not a single shipment of medical-grade N95 masks arrived at U.S. ports during the month of March. (10293 votes) | https://redd.it/fy8amr | 16:00 |
| livebrain | rplasmid: ppl are being fired in bulk | 16:00 |
| livebrain | companies are filling for bakrupcy | 16:00 |
| livebrain | bankrupcy | 16:00 |
| livebrain | that help is not going to reach everyone | 16:01 |
| livebrain | alot of small businesses owners wont be able to get any help | 16:01 |
| LjL | Italy's PM is due to making a press conference but it was postponed | 16:06 |
| rplasmid | in the end | 16:07 |
| rplasmid | its the government and its people and the social contract | 16:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: HHS begins $30 billion in aid, British prime minister moved out of ICU → https://is.gd/LrJAJY | 16:10 |
| livebrain | this will be good for banks | 16:11 |
| livebrain | giving out loans | 16:11 |
| rplasmid | for 0 interest? or negative interest? | 16:14 |
| rplasmid | as long as theres businesses to loan to i suppose | 16:14 |
| livebrain | not here | 16:17 |
| livebrain | you can get loans but at an interest that is not 0 | 16:17 |
| livebrain | and even more | 16:17 |
| livebrain | you can get a loan to help you to pay rent | 16:17 |
| livebrain | with interest | 16:17 |
| livebrain | but landlords will be able to get loans at 0 interest rate | 16:17 |
| livebrain | so... again... those who have money | 16:17 |
| livebrain | are the ones that are "spared" the most | 16:17 |
| ecov | I wouldnt suggest taking out a loan to pay rent | 16:21 |
| LjL | sneep, the loss of smell thing has been talked about a lot mainly because it feels "strange" IMO... as an actual symptom i bet it's not very common | 16:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2966 cases (now 1627267), +96 deaths (now 97366), +62 recoveries (now 366458) since 46 minutes ago — US: +1537 cases (now 470958), +94 deaths (now 16804), +56 recoveries (now 25993) since 46 minutes ago — Germany: +1166 cases (now 119401) since 46 minutes ago | 16:35 |
| Jigsy | At least the cases for the most part have slowed down. | 16:44 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +6066 cases (now 1633333), +251 deaths (now 97617) since 16 minutes ago — US: +4266 cases (now 475224), +251 deaths (now 17055) since 16 minutes ago — New Jersey, US: +3561 cases (now 54588), +232 deaths (now 1932) since 16 minutes ago | 16:50 |
| Albright | %title https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_Rintawan | 17:04 |
| Brainstorm | Albright: From en.wikipedia.org: Corona Rintawan - Wikipedia | 17:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:08 UTC: In photos: Religion around the world in the age of coronavirus: With strict stay-at-home orders, social distancing measures and countrywide lockdowns, the faithful and religious leaders have had to find creative ways to bring their services and communities together in these trying times. → https://is.gd/m3omj1 | 17:11 |
| LjL | FYI: the German study showing 14% of the population of a certain town was positive, as described at https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/09/999015/blood-tests-show-15-of-people-are-now-immune-to-covid-19-in-one-town-in-germany/ is now mysteriously missing (linked PDF is gone, and gone also from archive.org despite previously being there) | 17:21 |
| LjL | used to be https://www.land.nrw/sites/default/files/asset/document/zwischenergebnis_covid19_case_study_gangelt.pdf | 17:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:14 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Trump wants to reopen America by May despite expert concerns: A tale of two New Yorks: pandemic lays bare shocking inequities Inside New Jersey hospitals overwhelmed by Covid-19 Live global updates → https://is.gd/4ZhVL2 | 17:23 |
| farn | https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zyGjegaofMkJ:https://www.land.nrw/sites/default/files/asset/document/zwischenergebnis_covid19_case_study_gangelt.pdf | 17:24 |
| LjL | oh i didn't find a google cache | 17:25 |
| LjL | this is actually very short though | 17:25 |
| LjL | then it has a link to... another pdf? | 17:25 |
| pwr22 | Actually it'd be harder than I thought to | 17:25 |
| LjL | https://www.krankenhaushygiene.de/ccUpload/upload/files/2020_03_31_DGKH_Einladug_Lageeinschaetzung.pdf | 17:25 |
| LjL | this doesn't look like it's the study though | 17:26 |
| farn | Yeah, those two pages seem to be all we have so far | 17:29 |
| farn | It's just "preliminary result and conclusions" of the study | 17:29 |
| LjL | hm | 17:29 |
| LjL | and i have to wonder why even that much has disappeared from all archival sites (except google cache apparently) | 17:29 |
| LjL | but archive.org and archive.is both show *signs* of having had it, but it's no longer there | 17:29 |
| farn | The validity of their results is fairly controversial. I guess someone decided to make them disappear for now. | 17:30 |
| LjL | why is it controversial? were the antibody tests loosely validated (or not at all)? | 17:31 |
| farn | That's what I read but I didn't read much | 17:32 |
| farn | Sensitive to a regular cold apparently | 17:32 |
| LjL | farn, uh those are fairly different antibodies i thought :\ | 17:34 |
| farn | https://m.en24.news/a24/2020/04/coronavirus-doubts-about-the-results-of-the-heinsberg-study-knowledge.html | 17:35 |
| farn | Seems to be a translation of https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wissen/heinsberg-studie-herdenimmunitaet-kritik-1.4873480 | 17:35 |
| LjL | thanks | 17:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:31 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: HHS begins $30 billion in aid, British prime minister moved out of ICU → https://is.gd/LrJAJY | 17:35 |
| zirpu | i was hoping boris johnson would die from the virus. that'd light a fire under all other "leaders" out there. they seem to belive they, being "leader", are impervious. | 17:36 |
| zirpu | also, he's a twit. | 17:36 |
| LjL | let's not wish for people to die and/or call them names please. criticize their policies, fine. | 17:37 |
| LjL | besides, i'm sure he has been scared enough to realize now this is serious. | 17:37 |
| zirpu | right. sorry. i agree, i shouldn't wish bad on anyone. | 17:37 |
| zirpu | yes, i'm sure he's finally "got it" about the seriousness. i just wish the orange monkey would. | 17:38 |
| LjL | err... | 17:38 |
| zirpu | maybe i need more coffee? :-\ | 17:38 |
| zirpu | the only good thing i see coming from covid-19 is getting everyone to take being prepared more seriously. prepared for worst case scenarios instead of thinking they "probably wouldn't happen". which is dumb. | 17:39 |
| zirpu | also, it's not the zombie apocalypse. so be glad for that. :-) | 17:40 |
| LjL | thinking that things "probably won't happen" is also a natural defense against panic. if people think huge disasters WILL happen, some of them will prepare, but others will just panic, which is no good | 17:40 |
| LjL | (but also not very controllable, which i should mention since i hear advice that's basically just "don't panic", as if it were a consciously controlled reaction) | 17:41 |
| zirpu | panic: socks first, then boots. then grab your pants. :-) | 17:42 |
| \n3p\ | Nobody prepares for worst case scenario because is too expensive an probability of occurrence in very low. | 17:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:43 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: La conferenza stampa della protezione civile inizierà alle 18 → https://is.gd/3fzyjI | 17:47 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +956 cases (now 1634289), +1974 deaths (now 99591), +204 recoveries (now 366662) since an hour ago — United Kingdom: +1038 deaths (now 9016) since an hour ago — US: +435 cases (now 475659), +783 deaths (now 17838), +57 recoveries (now 26050) since an hour ago | 17:50 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: USS Theodore Roosevelt now has 416 coronavirus cases in wake of captain's firing (10310 votes) | https://redd.it/fyczl7 | 17:55 |
| zirpu | yikes. | 17:56 |
| zirpu | bad time to be on a boat. | 17:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:54 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: HHS begins $30 billion in aid, British prime minister moved out of ICU → https://is.gd/LrJAJY | 17:59 |
| LjL | Italy's daily Civil Protection press conference live now at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g94qgpafbdI - I will take some notes. A press conference by the PM may follow on new measures adopted. | 18:00 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) I am here with Roberto Bernabei, the president of Italia Longeva association. | 18:01 |
| LjL | Today we have a total of 98206 currently positive, +1396 since yesterday. | 18:02 |
| LjL | We have 3497 people in ICU, -108, and 28242 hospitalized, -157. | 18:02 |
| LjL | Most people are self-isolating, 66534 (68%). | 18:02 |
| LjL | New deaths are +570. | 18:02 |
| LjL | As to the general trend, +3951 new positive, 147567 total including everyone who was ever positive. | 18:03 |
| LjL | We have 16419 volunteers. | 18:03 |
| LjL | Professor, would you like to speak breafly? As you know there is also the PM's press conference today, so we'll have no questions today. | 18:04 |
| LjL | (Bernabei) What the PM says will be very important, so I will just give you a thought on data provided by the ISS: comorbidities play an important role in this epidemic, as 63% of deceased had 3+ of them. If you are in such a situation you must be extremely careful, but on the other hand, and this is something new about this pathology, all kinds of health structures on our territory must be enhanced. | 18:05 |
| LjL | It's obvious that people with multiple pathology do not just benefit from being hospitalized in an acute phase, but also from being helped at home or in nursing home or other structures. | 18:05 |
| LjL | A good evening to everybody. | 18:06 |
| LjL | --- end | 18:06 |
| LjL | https://dpaste.org/RGDD | 18:07 |
| jacklsw | another ramblings of LjL | 18:09 |
| jacklsw | :D | 18:09 |
| LjL | jacklsw, a short one. if the PM does eventually speak, expect longer | 18:11 |
| l0ndoner | I would rather stay home than run the risk of being eaten alive by a flesh eating bug on top of covid-19 | 18:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:09 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NY sees negative net ICU admissions, HHS begins $30 billion in aid → https://is.gd/LrJAJY | 18:12 |
| genera | what? there is a flesh eating bug out there?? | 18:17 |
| navonod | kinda... the bug more sucks and playfully nibbles actually. | 18:19 |
| LjL | well Conte is taking too long to show up, and i need to go to the pharmacy before it closes | 18:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +6875 cases (now 1641164), +618 deaths (now 100209), +2348 recoveries (now 369010) since 31 minutes ago — Italy: +3951 cases (now 147577), +570 deaths (now 18849), +1985 recoveries (now 30455) since 31 minutes ago — US: +2294 cases (now 477953), +72 deaths (now 17910) since 31 minutes ago | 18:20 |
| genera | its public holiday here | 18:20 |
| navonod | good ole good friday | 18:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:21 UTC: (news): WHO sees 'welcome slowing' of coronavirus cases in hardest-hit countries, warns against lifting restrictions too soon → https://is.gd/XWq29U | 18:24 |
| \n3p\ | Mexico Confirms 3rd Mass Coronavirus Contagion in Government Hospitals https://is.gd/IDOva4 | 18:30 |
| l0ndoner | are goverment hospitals the same as public hospitals in Mexico? | 18:33 |
| \n3p\ | lord_julius[m], yes. | 18:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +7642 cases (now 1648806), +86 deaths (now 100295), +95 recoveries (now 369105) since 16 minutes ago — United Kingdom: +5195 cases (now 70272) since 16 minutes ago — Ecuador: +2196 cases (now 7161) since 16 minutes ago | 18:35 |
| \n3p\ | l0ndoner, Mexico's IMSS / ISSSTE are like NHS in UK | 18:35 |
| l0ndoner | ahh thank you \n3p\ | 18:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:35 UTC: /u/The_Fadge: Link diretti della conferenza stampa : → https://is.gd/WCgSub | 18:36 |
| l0ndoner | so Mexico has it as bad as UK? | 18:36 |
| \n3p\ | l0ndoner, a lot worst. Mexico has a pro-castro Government and cut health budgets. Public hospitals are without PPE and diagnostic test | 18:38 |
| l0ndoner | O shit | 18:38 |
| \n3p\ | Mexico could be a lot worst than Italy. They are lying right now about the death bodies saying that they die of pneumonia. But physicians whistle-blower are saying that is COVID-19 | 18:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:45 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: NY sees negative net ICU admissions, HHS begins $30 billion in aid → https://is.gd/LrJAJY | 18:48 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +5008 cases (now 1653814), +111 deaths (now 100406), +811 recoveries (now 369916) since 24 minutes ago — Turkey: +4747 cases (now 47029), +98 deaths (now 1006), +281 recoveries (now 2423) since 24 minutes ago — Chile: +297 recoveries (now 1571) since 24 minutes ago | 18:50 |
| \n3p\ | Mexico sold public health reserves of PPE to China in February an now have to bye from China PPE a lot more expensive. | 18:51 |
| pwr22 | Anyone else thinking that the US death rates are going to be explodingin about two weeks? | 18:52 |
| pwr22 | I'm getting that feeling from how we've seen other places play out | 18:52 |
| jacklsw | humans are indeed parasites of earth | 18:53 |
| jacklsw | now we are being purged >) | 18:53 |
| navonod | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eySDeBdqxGY | 18:56 |
| \n3p\ | 100k deaths | 18:58 |
| tinwhiskers | pwr22: according to this https://covid19.healthdata.org/united-states-of-america it looks like most states will peak in the next couple of weeks if not sooner so I'd say exploding numbers leading up to that is a fair estimation. | 19:01 |
| tinwhiskers | Personally I'm surprised it's happening that soon but I guess we'll see. | 19:02 |
| tinwhiskers | The thing of it all is that due to the suppression efforts we probably won't see deaths being much higher than annual deaths from other things like motor vehicle accidents or influenza and those same people that declared Y2K a storm in a teacup will say the same of SARS-Cov-2. | 19:05 |
| tinwhiskers | That is, deaths from the first peak anyway. Who knows what will happen next. | 19:06 |
| pwr22 | <\n3p\ "100k deaths "> Wonder if UK is still on track for 20k | 19:06 |
| pwr22 | Yeah, I hope that people are in general smart enough to see that | 19:06 |
| \n3p\ | pwr22, CDC expected US national peak for Apr 15 (but data is changing everyday) | 19:06 |
| ThomCat[m] | tinwhiskers **Hopefully**, people will be smart enough to look at deaths/day as a comparison, but alas that might be hoping for too much | 19:08 |
| tinwhiskers | Those annoying people who keep saying this is no worse than flu are going to be doubly-annoying when they say the same after all the suppression efforts. | 19:11 |
| ThomCat[m] | Yeah, you're most likely right | 19:12 |
| ThomCat[m] | This could be a good video to show them: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sz1bGzYdRdk | 19:14 |
| aderon2020 | . | 19:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 17:11 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: 'Deadly resurgence' if curbs lifted too early, WHO warns → https://is.gd/nC8lzu | 19:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +14248 cases (now 1668062), +79 deaths (now 100485) since 32 minutes ago — US: +10389 cases (now 488755), +68 deaths (now 17995) since 32 minutes ago — New York, US: +9008 cases (now 170512) since 32 minutes ago | 19:21 |
| jokoon | any debunking to claims that the virus can survive in aerosol as opposed to droplets? or any other science about how viruses are able to survive in aerosol/droplets? or a comparison with bacteria? | 19:22 |
| jokoon | I mean anything pre-covid19 | 19:22 |
| jokoon | since covid19 probably abides by any science on previous viruses | 19:23 |
| tinwhiskers | ThomCat[m]: oh, man, I thoroughly disliked that video :-( | 19:25 |
| ThomCat[m] | Lol, just bad data? | 19:25 |
| tinwhiskers | jokoon: the definition of airborne is pretty vague and different people use it to been different things. Small droplets are aerosolized and yes the virus can survive in aerosolized droplets, potentially for several hours. | 19:27 |
| LjL | breaking news now on Italian RAI TV | 19:29 |
| zirpu | i wish they'd stop breaking the news. | 19:30 |
| jokoon | tinwhiskers, any study on what kills a virus? like air circulation, light, sunlight? | 19:30 |
| jokoon | surfaces? | 19:30 |
| LjL | i expect it's just Conte *finally* speaking | 19:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:26 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Kyle Griffin su Twitter: "Government projections indicate that lifting stay-at-home orders after just 30 days will lead to a dramatic infection spike this summer and death tolls that would rival doing nothing. https://t.co/TWc6JFKTnd" → https://is.gd/PqssUw | 19:31 |
| tinwhiskers | jokoon: air circulation is good for lowering the amount of aerosolized virus droplets in an enclosed space but doesn't kill the virus per se. | 19:32 |
| tinwhiskers | For surfaces, etc check the topic for links to lots of info | 19:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +7963 cases (now 1676025), +1019 deaths (now 101504), +1894 recoveries (now 371847) since 17 minutes ago — France: +7120 cases (now 124869), +987 deaths (now 13197), +1726 recoveries (now 24932) since 17 minutes ago — Peru: +641 cases (now 5897), +131 recoveries (now 1569) since 17 minutes ago | 19:36 |
| LjL | Italy's PM speaking now at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FheBhq61zTs - I will take notes. | 19:36 |
| LjL | We're extending lockdown until May 3. | 19:36 |
| LjL | A difficult but necessary decision, which is my responsibility, but I took it after consulting the Ministers, the scientific committee, the unions... | 19:36 |
| genera | 3 weeks | 19:36 |
| LjL | The scientific committee said the curve is encouraging, and there is evidence the lockdown measures are working. We are receiving important acknowledgements: the European CDC says Italy is being an example to other countries in its measures to safeguard health. | 19:37 |
| LjL | But that's why we cannot give up now: as our experts warned, we may choose all the results we've obtained so far, with more cases and more deaths. | 19:37 |
| LjL | So we must keep our guard up: we must do it now, that Easter is coming, and we'll have to do it for the holidays of April 25 and May 1. | 19:38 |
| LjL | We are all impatient to start again. We wish to restart after May 3, with carefulness, attention, but restart. | 19:38 |
| pwr22 | It would be ridiculous to cancel it anytime soon imo, the figures have not dropped down to nothing, just leveled off | 19:39 |
| LjL | For now we must keep respecting the rules, even during these days of holidays. The extension I signed today is also valid for productive activities; we have always put healthcare first, but at the same time we try to weigh in all interests, and we have our socio-economic base at heart. | 19:39 |
| LjL | We wish to relax the measures for all work activities as soon as possible, and restart the engine of our country... but we are not in that condition yet. We must wait. | 19:39 |
| tinwhiskers | jokoon: when I say air circulation, I mean opening a widow. Just moving air around inside an enclosed space isn't going to help at all, and might even make matters worse by keeping the aerosolized particles aloft. | 19:39 |
| LjL | What I can promise is that, even if before May 3, the circumstances changed, we may act sooner. | 19:40 |
| LjL | There are some small changes concerning work activities: starting on April 14, stationary stores, bookshops, clothing shops for infacts, will be reopened, after many requests. | 19:40 |
| LjL | We are also allowing forestry again, to be able to provide wood as combustible. | 19:40 |
| LjL | The work towards "phase 2" has already started: we cannot expect the virus to disappear completely, and we are already working to resume production activities after the acute phase. When we will have to live "with" the virus, we'll have a group of experts, and security protocols on the workplace. | 19:41 |
| LjL | Our experts will include sociologists, psychologists, job experts, and managers, who will discuss with the scientific committee to have the possibility to modify the normal logic of working, rethink some socio-economic models. | 19:42 |
| LjL | We must take this as a chance to innovate, keeping quality of life also into account. | 19:42 |
| LjL | [Names are being made of experts that will be part of this committee.] | 19:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:43 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Conte → https://is.gd/W87BEQ | 19:43 |
| LjL | The protocol on workplace safety was already signed in March together with the Unions. That's our "bible" for workplaces, which is being integrated and enhanced by our experts. | 19:43 |
| LjL | The recommendation to all company managers is to take advantage of the remaining time of suspension of work activities to sanitize workplaces, and prepare things to be able to later respect distances and other parts of the protocol. | 19:44 |
| LjL | Employers and employees will decide whether everything can proceed and the economic system start again. | 19:44 |
| LjL | Our goal is to keep R0 below 1. We cannot afford another spike in the curve. | 19:44 |
| LjL | We need expert advice also to change logistics and transportation: we must incentivize transport that avoids crowding. | 19:45 |
| LjL | Europe is facing a situation that was never seen before in peacetimes. 1500 billion euros will be needed for this emergency according to preliminary estimates. | 19:45 |
| LjL | This is one of the worst crisis for Europe and even for the whole planet. | 19:45 |
| LjL | The United States is already allocating more than 2000 billion dollars. | 19:46 |
| LjL | Within the proposals that came yesterday from the EU group, or minister did a great job. But we judge the measures taken as still not sufficient. We must build something more ambitious. | 19:46 |
| LjL | The main battle that Italy must conduct with the EU is for the creation of a fund to share efforts, yes, the famous "eurobonds", which must have firepower in proportion to a war economy; and it must be available NOW, and I'm telling this to all my peers. | 19:47 |
| LjL | If we come late with an economic response, that will not be enough, and we'll depress our economy. | 19:47 |
| zirpu | oh gawd. comparing this to a war economy is ominous. | 19:47 |
| mefistofeles | the economy talk is bs, tbh | 19:47 |
| LjL | The EU group's proposals also contain provisions for EU-level unemployment aids, for a total of 100 billion already allocated. | 19:47 |
| LjL | The eurobonds are, however, the main tool we need, despite other instruments having been created. The group is also proposing an unconditional credit system, connected to the old EMS. | 19:48 |
| LjL | In Italy we have had a very heated debate, which is legitimate, as a sign of freedom and democracy, and I assure you that the government will find ways and opportunities to inform and discuss with Parliament and the representatives of the people. | 19:49 |
| mefistofeles | US finally showing some signs of slowdown, but we'll see | 19:49 |
| LjL | It's just as important for this debate to be clear and devoid of inaccuracies: so I must state that the EMS has existed since 2012, it wasn't created or activated "last night", as some declared falsely and inappropriately. | 19:49 |
| LjL | This time I must make names: Matteo Salvini and Giorgia Meloni. | 19:49 |
| LjL | This is not true. This is not acceptable. This government doesn't work in the dark, we are transparent with all italians. | 19:50 |
| LjL | The EU group created NO obligation. | 19:50 |
| LjL | Second things: on request of certain Member States, but NOT of Italy, there has been a proposal for a credit line linked to the EMS but different from the existing ones. | 19:50 |
| mefistofeles | so far the best country has been Australia, do you know how did they manage that quick slowdown? | 19:50 |
| genera | so he is dissing Salvini? | 19:50 |
| LjL | Third, and to be even clearer: Italy signed for NO activation of the EMS, we don't need it, because we believe it is a completely inadequate tool for the emergency we are living. | 19:51 |
| \n3p\ | EU will collapse | 19:51 |
| mefistofeles | \n3p\: not likely | 19:51 |
| LjL | I made it clear to all my peers in the EU: Italy doesn't want the EMS or consider it adequate. If other States, since we are working in synergy with 8 other States, want a new credit line, then we must also take part to this discussion. But this is what we're fighting for: to have innovative instruments, and we will work with courage and determination to obtain it. | 19:52 |
| LjL | Yesterday something new happened: there is an entire paragraph devoted to our requests on expenses and investments. We are making principled statements, and there is not yet any exact guidelines, but we wrote it in ink for the first time, and other countries have had to agree not just to "explore for the future", but to work now on this new instrument. | 19:53 |
| LjL | It must be immediately applicable and enforceable, but we need the help of all Italian citizens, and this is why I must say that lies weaken us. | 19:53 |
| LjL | I had asked the opposition to share our sense of responsibility, but the falsehoods that have been stated yesterday risk weakening not just me, your PM, but the whole country. | 19:53 |
| LjL | There are 26 more countries, and we must work together, with the Germans, the Dutch, we must show our plans, we must show or dignity and determination for the long term. | 19:54 |
| LjL | If debate continues in this way, we are going to compromise our negotiation abilities. | 19:54 |
| LjL | I will evaluate the EU's response as a whole. I will explain again to the next European Council that the EMS is inadequate and insufficient for what we're living. | 19:54 |
| LjL | If this had been a crisis like the 2008 one, we could have used other instruments, but today we must invent new ones. From this viewpoint, I will NOT sign until I have a range of tools that is adequate to the challenge we are living. | 19:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:54 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Global deaths attributed to Covid-19 have surpassed 100,000. → https://is.gd/CZDo7B | 19:55 |
| LjL | A challenge that concerns all of Europe, not just Italians, and with reason and logic, I trust we will convince everyone that this is the only way for Europe to rise again. | 19:55 |
| LjL | Thank you. I'll take some questions now. | 19:56 |
| LjL | Q: [inaudible] | 19:56 |
| LjL | -- RAI 1 cut off | 19:56 |
| LjL | [Something about the EMS, but I can't hear] | 19:57 |
| LjL | ... Salvini is still calling the EMS a trap. | 19:57 |
| LjL | And the hypothesis of eurobonds, Mr President, you talked ... the European Council that will take place on April 23... I'm asking if you can give us a date, a deadline. | 19:57 |
| LjL | A: About the EMS, I'll say it again, when we started this negotiation with the EU, many States invoked existing instruments, like the EMS, but I said it immediately: Italy is not interested. Italy is in the vanguard, and particularly suffering, like Spain, but it's obvious that economic depression will concern every Member State. | 19:58 |
| LjL | Some countries that are with us in this battle for building new tools do consider the EMS sufficient, so Italy is accepting discussing an unconditional EMS, hence that battle; but if it is a "trap" like you said, then whoever created this trap must publicly take responsibility. | 19:59 |
| LjL | There was a center-right government, and Meloni was a Minister, that created this "trap". It was voted not by me, I wasn't even in Parliament, so if this is a trap, one must take responsibility for it. | 20:00 |
| LjL | Yesterday we put it in ink that we can activate a completely new line of credit, with no conditions except that they must be used for healthcare, but this is not something Italy asked for; Italy has been more ambitious from the start, and we'll keep working on the "eurobonds". | 20:00 |
| LjL | You say, don't we risk coming too late? Well, you tell me if there is a shortcut. The only way I know is fighting as a people to obtain a result immediately. | 20:01 |
| LjL | Q: [link broken / inaudible] have there been debates between the Democratic Party and Five Stars? | 20:02 |
| LjL | A: Yes, we had a long discussion, yesterday we meet the delegates from the regions, the mayor and the provinces, so we gathered a lot of material and worked with the relevant Ministers; creating this latest decree was difficult and we had to solve many issues. It wasn't a fight for or against the EMS. | 20:02 |
| LjL | The majority in the government knows that the EMS is not the right solution, for the way it was devised. | 20:03 |
| LjL | So let's not waste important time reasoning about it; sure, there was an update, and we reasoned on the current status, because it is a complicated negotiation. We must be united and compact. | 20:03 |
| LjL | You also asked about a tax on property? There is no concrete proposal and the government doesn't see one on the horizon. | 20:04 |
| LjL | Q: [inaudible] ... is there a message for the medium term, a model for living with the virus, for the people who need to plan in advance, thinking also about tourism in the summer? | 20:04 |
| livebrain | what country is that LjL ? | 20:05 |
| livebrain | italy = | 20:05 |
| livebrain | ? | 20:05 |
| LjL | A: That is what the expert group is for: to proceed with a plan, it gathers the best practices and the best (re-)organizational models for logistics and transport... We are in a time of suffering, but we are a country with a lot of abilities and resources, so we must work to improve our social, economic and cultural performance. We must rethink the way our lives are organized to start again stronger. | 20:05 |
| \n3p\ | deporting Chinese is a good start XD | 20:06 |
| LjL | Q: Again on "phase 2", you said that starting on May 3, we hope there will be gradual reopening... of non-essential work activities, like hairdressers, restaurants, laundry services...? Is there also a plan in progress for the tax declarations? | 20:06 |
| LjL | A: Please don't ask me for dates, I cannot be pushed to betting on a specific future, as it's not in the government's style. We are following rational paths for living with the virus, which we must do on expert recommendations, while taking fully responsibility of all political decisions. | 20:07 |
| livebrain | theres no way italy will be able to do that on may3 | 20:07 |
| rager | it's a bit late to deport anybody | 20:07 |
| LjL | So I'm unable to tell you now, but I can say we expect a full reopening of work activities but with very rigorous safety protocols, as we cannot get rid of the virus, and even if we could make it disappear from Italy, there could still be return contagion. | 20:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 18:04 UTC: /u/slakmehl: https://www.france24.com/en/20200410-italy-s-coronavirus-death-toll-rises-by-570-as-new-cases-decline-slightly → https://is.gd/2PeDNL | 20:07 |
| LjL | Your colleague talked about tourism: well, think of what that means, it means many people may come from abroad. | 20:08 |
| LjL | That said, we'll work on the next decree quickly, for economic measures to be adopted at the end of April. | 20:08 |
| zirpu | death of the tourist industry, or death by tourism. take your pick. | 20:08 |
| iz | yeah, it seems a bit naive to think the tourism industry would pick up quickly after being a hotspot for the virus | 20:08 |
| zirpu | it could become a hit game show, or a flop. | 20:08 |
| LjL | We already adopted some measures with the last two decrees. I'm sorry that all these measures we've put on paper don't mean that you are actually receiving money: there are timelines, processes, and we are trying to reduce bureaucracy to the minimum, but unfortunately, there are still waiting times. | 20:09 |
| livebrain | countries should drop tourist as a source of income and start creating industries, all countries importing from china because we lack the hability in europe to build stuff | 20:09 |
| LjL | We are pushing on everybody relevant, on INPS, on the banks, to make it possible for these money grants to happen as quickly as possible. Please understand that we were not prepared as a centralized state to face an emergency like this, which no one was expecting anywhere. | 20:09 |
| LjL | We currently have more than 4 billion people under restrictive measures, more than 100 countries: it concerns the entire planet, but we must preserve our social and productive system and remove bureaucratic obstacles from it, so that we can restart with positive growth. | 20:10 |
| LjL | Thank you all and happy Easter to all Italians. | 20:10 |
| LjL | --- end | 20:10 |
| \n3p\ | wow the fastest fingers in Italy. | 20:12 |
| rager | my prediction: | 20:12 |
| rager | the North of Europe will be faced with a hard choice: bail out the South or crush it. | 20:12 |
| rager | it's gonna be fkkn bad | 20:12 |
| rager | when it was just Greece undergoing a crisis, the North decided it was too expensive and forced austerity | 20:12 |
| \n3p\ | But it North bails South Frexit will be a fact | 20:13 |
| livebrain | this is not just the south | 20:13 |
| livebrain | this is global | 20:13 |
| genera | we must preserve our social and productive system. i would have liked a word on cutlure. | 20:13 |
| rager | Germany doesn't want to pay | 20:13 |
| livebrain | and the south is an open market | 20:13 |
| livebrain | if the south sunks | 20:14 |
| LjL | This is my full translation of Conte's speech: https://dpaste.org/xPxm | 20:14 |
| livebrain | the markets also sunk | 20:14 |
| livebrain | thinking that a couple of countries can survive "alone" is wishfull thinking | 20:14 |
| jokoon | tinwhiskers, also if those virions are "diluted", they're sparce, so if 100 enters someone's body, it's not enough to get infected, since mucus eliminates a lot of capsides | 20:15 |
| \n3p\ | but united all will sink | 20:15 |
| livebrain | you need clients in order to make money | 20:15 |
| livebrain | for them to buy stuff | 20:15 |
| livebrain | if alot of countries sunk | 20:15 |
| livebrain | no one will be around to buy stuff | 20:15 |
| livebrain | and germany sells alot of stuff... | 20:16 |
| graphine | g what does germany sell? | 20:16 |
| graphine | hej all | 20:16 |
| livebrain | well for starters | 20:16 |
| livebrain | weapons | 20:16 |
| rager | there's definitely going to be a realignment of some kind | 20:16 |
| \n3p\ | Chinese and Americans will be probably the winners of the COVID-19 crisis in the long term | 20:16 |
| livebrain | certain specialized tech | 20:16 |
| livebrain | cars | 20:16 |
| mefistofeles | \n3p\: nah, pharmaceuticals, specially German and dutch :P | 20:17 |
| graphine | you mean german companies sell that stuff | 20:17 |
| livebrain | what does that mean graphine ? | 20:17 |
| \n3p\ | mefistofeles, Germany alone could win also but not in the EU every day weaker | 20:17 |
| graphine | most of those are actually AGs so their share holder kind of sell that stuff | 20:18 |
| graphine | you call that globalization | 20:18 |
| graphine | its not germany or the german people | 20:18 |
| livebrain | german companies are in germany, the gov from germany wants the companies to trhive and prosper | 20:18 |
| mefistofeles | \n3p\: everything is everyday weaker | 20:18 |
| graphine | hi mefistofeles | 20:18 |
| \n3p\ | mefistofeles, that's true | 20:18 |
| livebrain | so bmws are made by litle green aliens i supose | 20:18 |
| graphine | hi LjL | 20:18 |
| graphine | they do not ? livebrain | 20:19 |
| graphine | i guess i have to rethink about it than | 20:19 |
| graphine | i love green aliens | 20:19 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Rihanna Donates $4.2 Million to Domestic Violence Victims Impacted by COVID-19 Lockdowns The pop star teams up with Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey to make the sizable donation (10567 votes) | https://redd.it/fygaae | 20:19 |
| graphine | mefistofeles, how do you send commands to the bot to request some infos? | 20:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2336 cases (now 1678361), +90 deaths (now 101594), +545 recoveries (now 372392) since 49 minutes ago — Canada: +803 cases (now 22046), +254 recoveries (now 5834) since 49 minutes ago — Ireland: +480 cases (now 7054) since 49 minutes ago | 20:21 |
| rager | why would USA come out ahead on COVID? | 20:25 |
| rager | the country has been doing everything it can to not prepare and not respond until forced to | 20:25 |
| rager | it's also screwing over allies left and right on the market for supplies | 20:25 |
| rager | I think USA comes out of this with far fewer friends than it thinks it has | 20:25 |
| graphine | hi rager | 20:26 |
| livebrain | they dont need friends | 20:26 |
| \n3p\ | America has no friends, only interests. | 20:26 |
| livebrain | they have money lol | 20:26 |
| rager | Everyone needs friends | 20:27 |
| graphine | whats up here tonight? | 20:28 |
| rager | Kinda | 20:28 |
| graphine | general discussion about countries and comapnies? | 20:28 |
| ecrockz123 | Guys how u are dealing with mental illness | 20:28 |
| graphine | let me get some coffee to read into the mug | 20:28 |
| graphine | i miss some people here | 20:29 |
| \n3p\ | ecrockz123, I party with my imaginary friends. Everything is ok | 20:29 |
| graphine | hop all are well | 20:30 |
| graphine | hope | 20:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:28 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Telemedicine surges, $30 billion in aid sent to hospitals → https://is.gd/LrJAJY | 20:30 |
| ecrockz123 | \n3p\: Lockdown is getting extended. People are facing anxiety | 20:32 |
| graphine | what do you think about that guy in south corea that got sick again do you have more infos mefistofeles ? | 20:32 |
| \n3p\ | ecrockz123, yes. some people will suffer a lot. Suicide rates will soar. | 20:33 |
| rager | https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-happens-when-the-all-clear-isnt-all-clear-covid-19-reactivations-in-south-korea | 20:35 |
| \n3p\ | ecrockz123, suicide deaths in USA are 50k + 80k for alcohol abuse + 70k for drug abuse -- COVIDI-19 projected deaths are under 60k | 20:35 |
| rager | how does it come back? is it herpetic? does it get its "second wind"? | 20:36 |
| LjL | rager, we really don't know yet. there has been some early evidence of nerve involvement, so it might be something like herpes, but that's just speculative | 20:37 |
| rager | are people just becomming immunosuppressed for unrelated reasons while they still have a sub-threshold viral load? | 20:37 |
| rager | aw, that'd suck | 20:37 |
| rager | coronashingles | 20:37 |
| LjL | rager, it's also possible they are just getting re-infected, and these are not reactivations, since there does appear to be a significant portion of people who do not develop lasting antibodies | 20:37 |
| rager | and then we find out.... the cold is already herpetic? | 20:37 |
| rager | hm | 20:37 |
| rager | I've read about primary and secondary antibody reactions | 20:38 |
| rager | and the secondary one lags behind recovery, so you can end up without long-term resistance for a bit after you've recovered | 20:38 |
| rager | but I'm no immunologist | 20:38 |
| euod[m] | rager: lots of people are immunosuppressed surprisingly. nicotine is something which causes it to some extent. | 20:39 |
| LjL | rager, check out https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/08/covid-19-antibody-update-for-april-8 | 20:39 |
| euod[m] | well smoking. not nicotine specifically. | 20:39 |
| rager | nicotine, lack of sleep, alcohol, stress... | 20:39 |
| euod[m] | one of the treatments being used is prednisolone, perhaps surprisingly. | 20:40 |
| euod[m] | which is a heavy immunosuppressant steroid. | 20:40 |
| euod[m] | and tastes like absolute shit. | 20:42 |
| rager | don't chew it | 20:43 |
| rager | those tabs are tiny | 20:43 |
| euod[m] | ecrockz123: people can get anxious about it all they want. the canadian government has been doing a slow burn up to it, but they’ve made it clear now that it won’t be lifted until there is a vaccine. | 20:43 |
| euod[m] | rager: pills are the expensive version. if you get a cheap prescription it’s a powder you mix into a solution with water. | 20:44 |
| rager | ooh, tasty | 20:45 |
| euod[m] | tastes like the smell of coins. | 20:45 |
| \n3p\ | Trudeau is an asshole. Who cares | 20:45 |
| euod[m] | and removes your sense of taste. | 20:45 |
| euod[m] | huh? he’s right. | 20:45 |
| euod[m] | there has to be a vaccine. | 20:45 |
| \n3p\ | euod[m], ok Canda could wait until a vaccine. The rest of the world it's no so crazy | 20:46 |
| rager | click that link to sciencemag | 20:47 |
| rager | a vaccine might not be more than 30% effective by some of the evidence in it | 20:47 |
| rager | sorry, 70% | 20:47 |
| rager | much better, at least | 20:47 |
| mefistofeles | graphine: I don'thave more info on it, I just guess it was a false negative, or something like that | 20:48 |
| \n3p\ | 1 People recovered or asymptomatic with anti-bodies could start to work right now. | 20:48 |
| mefistofeles | graphine: though data has shown that younger people show less antibodies | 20:48 |
| graphine | okay | 20:48 |
| graphine | i hope that too | 20:49 |
| graphine | if not it would seriously suck | 20:49 |
| \n3p\ | 2 People in cities and zones with low virus could start to work right now if implemented an effective surveillance system for test an detect new sick people and contain propagation | 20:50 |
| \n3p\ | 3 people MUST follow social distancing in workplace and MUST be tested negative but they can work | 20:51 |
| \n3p\ | Between total lockdown waiting for a vaccine and no measure. There is a sensible middle point. Maximize safety but maximize economic recovery at the same time or the countries will collapse | 20:54 |
| Dan[m]1 | PM Brainstorm !corona USA | 20:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 18:48 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Farage Warns Chinese Interests Lining up for ‘Fire Sale’ of UK Businesses → https://is.gd/Gk7XwZ | 20:55 |
| foo | huh, didn't realize this channel existed too. | 20:57 |
| LjL | foo, we learn lots of things about this virus | 20:57 |
| LjL | most of them are inconclusive, though | 20:57 |
| LjL | but this channel probably does exist | 20:57 |
| ecrockz123 | Synapsestorm: omg | 20:57 |
| LjL | i am not entirely sure why Brainstorm reported that one | 20:58 |
| LjL | oh, because 63 reports | 20:58 |
| LjL | but surely that's the wrong epicenter | 20:58 |
| \n3p\ | Mortality in young population is low. They could return to school/Collage. Elderly and most vulnerable could be lockdown | 21:01 |
| \n3p\ | We mus learn to live with the virus in the next months | 21:02 |
| \n3p\ | We must learn to live with the virus in the next months | 21:02 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: wrong | 21:02 |
| LjL | except many of those younger people may live with some of the older people | 21:02 |
| livebrain | younger ppl get it and spread it | 21:02 |
| zirpu | ask parents to send their kids back to school with the virus. sure. do that. | 21:02 |
| bin_bash | plus spreading it in public | 21:02 |
| \n3p\ | LjL, that's why they must be relocated temporarily until vaccine | 21:03 |
| zirpu | Ready Play One had the right idea: everyone schools via the net. we just need those HUDs and VR. :-) | 21:03 |
| livebrain | but my country is going to send to school those in the 12 grade | 21:03 |
| livebrain | 16 years old will have classes | 21:03 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: lol relocated to where, leper island? | 21:03 |
| \n3p\ | bin_bash, relocated to HOTELS. Tourism is TOTALLY STOPED | 21:04 |
| livebrain | and who will take care of them ? | 21:04 |
| LjL | \n3p\, anywhere they are relocated would become a place at high risk of very lethal contagion | 21:04 |
| LjL | just like nursing homes are proving to be | 21:04 |
| livebrain | only one confirmed case and it will spread like crazy | 21:04 |
| LjL | quite | 21:04 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: that doesn't make any sense at all. do you think hotels are hermetically sealed facilities? | 21:05 |
| bin_bash | what about food/supplies coming in/out? the people who work there? | 21:05 |
| livebrain | putting all the vulnerable ppl together | 21:05 |
| livebrain | is a time bomb lol | 21:05 |
| zirpu | the only real solution is we all upload. when it's available. :-\ | 21:05 |
| \n3p\ | LjL, that is a risk but they could follow social distancing, active surveillance testing, temperature measurement every 4h | 21:06 |
| \n3p\ | bin_bash, who leaves in a sealed bubble? | 21:06 |
| bin_bash | what about food/supplies coming in/out? the people who work there? | 21:06 |
| livebrain | it only takes one infected | 21:06 |
| livebrain | to spread it | 21:06 |
| LjL | \n3p\, well protocols don't seem to be working out too well in nursing home, with a huge percentage of patients dying, and most of the personnel getting sick, like in France and Italy | 21:06 |
| livebrain | when someone has a fever | 21:06 |
| livebrain | most likelly he will have spread it to others already | 21:06 |
| LjL | \n3p\, so if we know of much better protocols, then before we do what you're saying, we should definitely start applying them to existing nursing homes | 21:07 |
| livebrain | i think this is an hard reality were we have to accept that alot of ppl are going to die | 21:07 |
| \n3p\ | LjL, because there were not strict protocols | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2842 cases (now 1681677), +165 deaths (now 101797), +636 recoveries (now 373564) since 20 minutes ago — Brazil: +1241 cases (now 19638), +83 deaths (now 1057) since 20 minutes ago — Ireland: +1035 cases (now 8089) since 20 minutes ago | 21:08 |
| livebrain | and if we keep in lockdown the economy will suffer alot, leading to a huge crisis that is going to affect millions of ppl if not billions | 21:08 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: what about food/supplies coming in/out? the people who work there? | 21:09 |
| zirpu | we are living through a historical event. | 21:09 |
| \n3p\ | LjL some kind of protocol must be implemented to save vulnerable people but also that most people could return to work | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 19:04 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Boris Johnson → https://is.gd/u8wQQW | 21:09 |
| livebrain | and what i think most countries are doing is just to try to avoid a huge number of cases in ICU's at the same time | 21:09 |
| livebrain | spread those cases in time | 21:09 |
| \n3p\ | bin_bash, logistic and commerce is not stopped. | 21:09 |
| livebrain | so that hospital can cope | 21:09 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: no, you're missing the point. the people who work there will become exposed more frequently if everyone else is just going about their business | 21:10 |
| bin_bash | it will be more dangerous for the vulnerable population | 21:10 |
| \n3p\ | rural areas, farmers are working with normality in many countries | 21:10 |
| bin_bash | what | 21:10 |
| bin_bash | what does that have to do with anything | 21:10 |
| livebrain | if the lockdown continues there will be no money left to "help" failed businesses | 21:11 |
| livebrain | record numbers in unemployed are already happening | 21:11 |
| \n3p\ | bin_bash, did you read my point 1? there are many people with antibodies. immune now. Many of them are volunteering. | 21:12 |
| livebrain | and small business owners wont be able to get any financial help | 21:12 |
| livebrain | that those are alot also | 21:12 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: that's irrelevant. | 21:13 |
| tinwhiskers | \n3p\: I agree with what you're saying | 21:13 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: you can't just take all the millions of vulnerable people and stick them in hotels full of immune people, that's just not based in reality | 21:13 |
| livebrain | we should learn to live with the virus and the social distancing thing, we should accept that alot of ppl is going to die. | 21:14 |
| \n3p\ | bin_bash, you will see pretty soon that it is not. USA will restart economy next month and they will be doing some of the things i just mention and probably many more. | 21:14 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: no, they will not take millions of peope and put them into hotels with untrained immune people | 21:14 |
| tinwhiskers | Whether it's is actually practical to fully isolate the vulnerable in small groups, such as at hotels and keep all their needs supplied on the scale required is another matter but the theory is sound. We should be leveraging the differential vulnerability of young vs. old instead of letting it hamstring our efforts. | 21:15 |
| \n3p\ | Why not? If you love your grandma you could send her to a hotel to save her life and in the meantime you work | 21:16 |
| livebrain | putting all the vulnerable ppl together is a time bomb | 21:16 |
| tinwhiskers | Or at least investigating whether it's actually practical. The scale required simply may not be possible to achieve. | 21:16 |
| livebrain | all it takes is one infected | 21:16 |
| tinwhiskers | livebrain: you don't put them all together | 21:16 |
| tinwhiskers | You put them in small groups of two or three per room | 21:16 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: firstly, it's not just elderly people (also all of my grandparents are already dead, thanks) and secondly how are you going to get people to go to these hotels? Where are going to find enough staff? | 21:17 |
| livebrain | LjL: has a point, if such a good protocol existed it could be used in nursing homes | 21:17 |
| tinwhiskers | These are so questions today should be investigated | 21:17 |
| tinwhiskers | Umm | 21:17 |
| \n3p\ | livebrain, but they will be practicing social distance and many tests a day to detect early a potencial sick people | 21:17 |
| tinwhiskers | These are all questions that should be investigated | 21:18 |
| \n3p\ | bin_bash, because there will be people volunteering. One member of the family could be locked down with them | 21:19 |
| tinwhiskers | Nursing homes tend to not practice social distancing and often have staff that may spread disease to many residents. If we can use immune staff it *may* be possible when it wasn't previously | 21:19 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: you're only considering elderly people, not all other potentially at-risk people. | 21:19 |
| tinwhiskers | I personally think it deserves some fleshing out | 21:19 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: then add those people too. | 21:19 |
| euod[m] | people being immune doesn't really make them safe workers. they can still carry it by contact. | 21:19 |
| bin_bash | i have allergies, that means I'm more at risk than someone without allergies. There's no way in hell you'd get me to go to some random hotel with a bunch of other people | 21:20 |
| \n3p\ | bin_bash, i said VULNERABLE people. Not only elderly | 21:20 |
| \n3p\ | I don't say it will be easy. But we face a global crisis and the world CAN'T be stopped 18 months | 21:20 |
| euod[m] | also the concept that the US will "restart the economy" in the next 6 months is funny. | 21:20 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: that is MILLIONS of people!! We don't even HAVE the resources for it, let alone getting people to actually agree to something like that. | 21:20 |
| euod[m] | \n3p\: you can cry about it all you want, but it has to happen. | 21:21 |
| bin_bash | the economy isn't even shut down. It's just been modified | 21:21 |
| tinwhiskers | euod[m]: it makes them a lot safer. If you're infected then it's hard to take enough precautions to avoid spreading it, but if you're immune then precautions can make you very safe | 21:21 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: yeah hence why we need more studies on antibodies and potential immunity | 21:22 |
| euod[m] | tinwhiskers: yes, absolutely. it takes a lot to avoid being a carrier. | 21:22 |
| tinwhiskers | Errr | 21:22 |
| euod[m] | bin_bash: there was a french report saying that immunity might only last 18 months or so in most people. so it's totally likely that this cycle doesn't end unless there's something else going on than people recovering and going back to work. | 21:23 |
| \n3p\ | euod[m], you'll see it very soon. In fact Wuhan, CHINA. Re-open yesterday. | 21:23 |
| euod[m] | bin_bash: sort of a dangerous ideal too. as that'll lead to people intentionally being infected, so they can recover and go back to work. | 21:23 |
| bin_bash | euod[m]: frankly we don't know whether it lasts at all, or who develops it and who doesn't. Whether "re-infections" are happening or not | 21:23 |
| bin_bash | like chicken pox parties | 21:23 |
| tinwhiskers | \n3p\: yeah, so you're not alone, but as you can see there is a lot of knee-jerk reactions coming after the miserable pr disaster the UK caused with their attempt to explain it and people won't even consider rationally thinking about it now | 21:23 |
| \n3p\ | euod[m], USA will restart many activities next month | 21:24 |
| euod[m] | \n3p\: lol, are you serious? the US isn't even isolating. china did it to an absurd level. | 21:24 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: it's not a rational idea to put all potnetially vulnerable people into hotels. | 21:24 |
| bin_bash | it's entirely irrational. | 21:24 |
| euod[m] | \n3p\: alright, enjoy dealing with millions of people dying. | 21:24 |
| \n3p\ | euod[m], that will not happen | 21:24 |
| euod[m] | \n3p\: that's literally the two options. isolate, or have your population decimated. | 21:25 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: no, it's not entirely irrational, but requires being managed correctly. | 21:25 |
| tinwhiskers | euod[m]: wrong | 21:25 |
| euod[m] | \n3p\: I wish I lived in your dream world where everything is fine in a month. everything would be a lot easier. | 21:25 |
| tinwhiskers | You have a spectrum of options in between | 21:25 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: it's irrational because it's unrealistic to think you could even get that many people to willingly enter into a situation like that. | 21:25 |
| euod[m] | tinwhiskers: for the US in particular, they're not even isolating to begin with. so the spectrum is sort of only upwards from there. | 21:26 |
| bin_bash | it's probably over 100 million people. | 21:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:23 UTC: See religions around the world adapt in the age of coronavirus: With strict stay-at-home orders, social distancing measures and countrywide lockdowns, the faithful and religious leaders have had to find creative ways to bring their services and communities together in these trying times. → https://is.gd/m3omj1 | 21:26 |
| \n3p\ | there is an intelligent approach and is what CDC is determining | 21:26 |
| tinwhiskers | It's irrational to dismiss it without looking at it. You keep making straw man assumptions. Who says it's voluntary? The current restrictions are not voluntary | 21:27 |
| euod[m] | \n3p\: trump is a flaming idiot who's currently tweeting about his ratings of his press conferences. | 21:27 |
| tinwhiskers | Without actually looking at the idea you don't know, but you're just dismissing it out of hand | 21:27 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: it's probably ~10+ million vulnerable people. you're going to round up that many people? | 21:27 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: no, i've actually thought about and debated this with people back in january | 21:28 |
| tinwhiskers | Until we actually do the numbers these knee-jerk reactions just look like willful ignorance | 21:28 |
| bin_bash | but the reality is that it's not really realistic. Especially since we don't actually know anything about immunity for sure | 21:28 |
| tinwhiskers | I've yet to see anything actually worked out | 21:28 |
| euod[m] | tinwhiskers: I think you're under estimating the number of people who are vulnerable. there's hundreds of thousands of people in the US alone who take immunosupressant drugs. not to even consider anything else. | 21:28 |
| tinwhiskers | So, where are the estimates of available accommodation, etc, capability to build temporary accommodation, etc? It hasn't been done | 21:29 |
| tinwhiskers | It's just been dismissed out of hand | 21:29 |
| euod[m] | tinwhiskers: there's 400,000 people with MS in the US. all of them take immunosupressant drugs. that's a single condition. | 21:29 |
| \n3p\ | The worst cases scenario for USA 2 millions if they don't take any measure. But they will take many measures to restart the economy and now they have a surveillance system to detect EARLY any change in population | 21:30 |
| bin_bash | 25 million americans have asthma | 21:30 |
| tinwhiskers | euod[m]: I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying there hasn't actually been any work done on fleshing it out | 21:30 |
| bin_bash | ~2million have cancer | 21:31 |
| euod[m] | putting a bunch of vulnerable people together is asking for a disaster, which is probably why. | 21:31 |
| livebrain | some of those may overlap | 21:31 |
| euod[m] | one mistake and they're all dead. | 21:31 |
| livebrain | one may have cancer and have asthma | 21:31 |
| bin_bash | livebrain: ofc | 21:31 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes, and all these things need to be considered | 21:31 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: we dont even have the space to house all those people together in hotels. | 21:32 |
| euod[m] | if you want to put millions of people in cells with doors that only open from the outside, and men with assault rifles to shoot anybody that goes near the facility, then it'd possibly work. | 21:32 |
| livebrain | but yes gathering vulnerable ppl is a huge effort | 21:32 |
| livebrain | all the logistic behind it would be crazy | 21:32 |
| bin_bash | 25 million people with asthma and only 5 million hotel rooms. (from AHLA on the hotel number) | 21:32 |
| livebrain | and lets face it, alot of fat ppl in the USA lol | 21:33 |
| bin_bash | 47.8 elderly people (and yes ofc there's overlap) | 21:33 |
| tinwhiskers | You could also, for example, designate some residential housing for this purpose. After all of you're talking about millions of people then that's millions of people not taking up the housing they are currently in. | 21:33 |
| livebrain | high blood pressure is also a "risk" | 21:33 |
| tinwhiskers | This closed mindedness is sadly ignorant | 21:33 |
| \n3p\ | In a NORMAL year 50k suicides/yr + 80k deaths abuse alcohol + 70k deaths abuse of drugs. With a lockdown those numbers will soar. You can't have more deaths with a lockdown than the expected deaths for COVID-19 | 21:33 |
| euod[m] | tinwhiskers: no, what you're suggesting is just so outlandish. | 21:34 |
| bin_bash | oh right livebrain. that's ~80 million people | 21:34 |
| tinwhiskers | euod[m]: it's a huge undertaking, yes | 21:34 |
| euod[m] | \n3p\: [citation needed] | 21:34 |
| graphine | hej | 21:34 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: it's not logistically feasible in the US. | 21:34 |
| \n3p\ | American Health Statistics | 21:34 |
| tinwhiskers | That your can't say. That's just bullshit without actually doing some real numbers | 21:34 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: ijust gave real numbes. | 21:35 |
| euod[m] | tinwhiskers: like, you'd have to designate california as the plague free state, move every single person out of SF, and shoot anybody who enters. | 21:35 |
| euod[m] | \n3p\: "with lockdown those numbers will soar" | 21:35 |
| tinwhiskers | euod[m]: that's silly | 21:35 |
| bin_bash | 80 million people with high blood pressure, 48 million elderly people, 25 million people with asthma. of course there is overlap, i don't know the exact numbers, but it wouldlikely be AT LEAST 100 million people. There are 5 million guest rooms. | 21:35 |
| euod[m] | tinwhiskers: the population of SF is only 888000 people. you'd need at least 25 san franciscos to house everybody. | 21:36 |
| euod[m] | on the low end. | 21:36 |
| tinwhiskers | If one fifth of the population is considered vulnerable then you need to allocate one fifth of accommodation to this purpose | 21:36 |
| \n3p\ | edacra[m], do you need proves that with lockdown people will be fired and fired people suicide at hight rares? | 21:36 |
| tinwhiskers | You can't just dismiss it with big numbers. You need to actually work it out | 21:36 |
| euod[m] | right. so we just say the westcoast is plague free, and shoot anybody who is in california without a license. | 21:36 |
| livebrain | the moving would expose those vulnerable ppl to the virus | 21:37 |
| livebrain | such a huge thing is not going to happen in 1 day | 21:37 |
| livebrain | the moving, the building, the furniture, the food | 21:37 |
| livebrain | etc etc | 21:37 |
| euod[m] | \n3p\: yeah. things seem pretty chill at the moment. the answer to debt is to say "fuck you!" it's at a scale that it's not a personal problem anymore. | 21:37 |
| livebrain | all handled by others | 21:37 |
| euod[m] | \n3p\: if you owe the bank $5000 it's your problem, if you owe them $1M it's their problem :P | 21:37 |
| livebrain | euod[m]: so true lol | 21:38 |
| \n3p\ | I'm not an specialist but public health experts could explain that if economy collapse many more deaths will be a fact. | 21:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1654 cases (now 1683331), +213 deaths (now 102010), +1518 recoveries (now 375082) since 34 minutes ago — US: +1633 cases (now 491279), +213 deaths (now 18247) since 34 minutes ago — Germany: +1506 recoveries (now 53913) since 34 minutes ago | 21:38 |
| AimHere | \n3p\, they might explain that if it was true. But it's not obvious that it is a fact | 21:38 |
| AimHere | For instance, the mortality rate during the 1930s Great Depression went *down* | 21:38 |
| euod[m] | \n3p\: it's not a justification for not having a shutdown, in any case. | 21:39 |
| \n3p\ | AimHere, interesting. I have hear that suicides were massive | 21:39 |
| euod[m] | \n3p\: from where, though? | 21:39 |
| AimHere | Suicides are only a part of it. There are also suicides due to job stress. And people not dying of work-related illnesses and accidents. | 21:40 |
| bin_bash | based on numbers and considering potential overlap. i'd guesstimate there's ~100 million vulnerable people and there are only 5 million guest rooms, tinwhiskers. | 21:40 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: so you just ignored everything I said then | 21:40 |
| jester | https://techcrunch.com/2020/04/10/apple-and-google-are-launching-a-joint-covid-19-tracing-tool/ | 21:40 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: no, i'm not ignoring it. i'm pointing out the fact that it would not be feasible in the US based on numbers. | 21:41 |
| \n3p\ | AimHere, yes. The total number is what should be used to take a decision. | 21:41 |
| bin_bash | not to mention how physically large the country is | 21:41 |
| bin_bash | geographically | 21:41 |
| AimHere | Right now, the coronavirus deaths completely swamp the usual number of suicides | 21:41 |
| \n3p\ | Some mortality numbers in USA https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm | 21:42 |
| AimHere | For instance, there are 60 times as many coronavirus deaths in the UK as there would be suicides in a normal year | 21:42 |
| nixonix | no lockdowns in mexico yet? | 21:42 |
| rager | here's a fun thing to think about | 21:43 |
| rager | for every vulnerable person | 21:43 |
| euod[m] | "everybody will kill themselves if they're inside" is just a really poor attempt at justifying "restarting the economy". | 21:43 |
| rager | how many nurses, nursing assistance, doctors, hospital administrators, etc have the ability to expose them to disease? | 21:43 |
| rager | you can't just lock away all the vulnerable | 21:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy extends lockdown into May, $30 billion in aid sent to hospitals → https://is.gd/LrJAJY | 21:43 |
| rager | you need to also lock away an entire population dedicated to feeding and caring for them | 21:43 |
| rager | because if any of those people is exposed to the disease because shelter-in-place ends, vulnerable people die | 21:44 |
| euod[m] | and supplying drugs. | 21:44 |
| euod[m] | and healthcare. | 21:44 |
| AimHere | \n3p\, Coronavirus is known to be killing about as many as Heart disease or cancer in the USA right now, with the figures you're citing. And there's probably some unknown coronavirus deaths, and excess deaths indirectly linked to it thrown in (e.g. heart attack patients dying because ER is turning people away in the pandemic) | 21:44 |
| tinwhiskers | The fact is there is a bias in the way this virus affects people and that can be exploited to our advantage. At the very least that could mean different restrictions for vulnerable and non-vulnerable, perhaps billeting the vulnerable into houses with another vulnerable person so they can be isolated from the less vulnerable. There are so many possible ways to leverage the bias that to dismiss it out of hand is pure ignorance | 21:44 |
| zirpu | hopefully it doesn't make people sterile, like in the movie Children of Men. | 21:44 |
| rager | "... and caring for", but you get the point | 21:44 |
| \n3p\ | AimHere, UK is different than US. I guess that UK is older an have a lot of vulnerable people. That could led to a different approach. | 21:44 |
| euod[m] | lol what | 21:44 |
| euod[m] | the US is fat. | 21:45 |
| livebrain | theres another variable in play | 21:45 |
| livebrain | you seem to think that most ppl would just comply | 21:45 |
| euod[m] | like, morbidly obese as an average. | 21:45 |
| zirpu | it's easy to imagine nightmare scenarios, reality don't care about our imaginations and smacks us hard. :-\ | 21:45 |
| livebrain | most ppl in the "freedom" part of the world | 21:45 |
| rager | and the UK is also fat? | 21:45 |
| livebrain | wouldnt comply with that | 21:45 |
| \n3p\ | AimHere, yes. A lot of deaths and it's just the begging of the pandemic. | 21:45 |
| AimHere | \n3p\, UK is slightly younger, if anything | 21:45 |
| livebrain | i can see some guy that was in vietnam ... killed ppl and now being round up to hotels | 21:46 |
| AimHere | Just looking at the first two population demographics, US is about 15-16% age 65+, while UK is about 13-14% | 21:46 |
| livebrain | alot of ppl wouldnt go | 21:46 |
| rager | 63% of adults in the UK are overweight or obese | 21:46 |
| rager | and "morbidly obese" is not the average in the USA | 21:46 |
| AimHere | *first two demographics sites spat out by google | 21:46 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: yes sure is a completely authoritarian state the state could do the people shuffle and manipulate environments as much as they want. This is not a completely authoritarian state, and even though many people are sacrificing their liberty, you'd be hard-pressed to find people who wouldn't fight back against being forcibly relocated. | 21:46 |
| euod[m] | rager: it's much higher in the US. | 21:46 |
| AimHere | 71.6% overweight or obese in the USA | 21:47 |
| bin_bash | s/sure is a /sure in a/ | 21:47 |
| euod[m] | rager: heck even the president is literally "obese" by the medical definition. | 21:47 |
| rager | again... it's higher, but the UK isn't exactly better enough to matter | 21:47 |
| rager | isn't BoJo the clown also obese? | 21:47 |
| rager | it's not making the UK's case look less bleak to say "LOLUSA" | 21:48 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: people already have restrictions imposed today they have no choice about. You're making arbitrary excuses for not even considering the possibilities | 21:48 |
| \n3p\ | ok AimHere ok that is a good. Maybe there is more vulnerable people in US for obesity, diabetes | 21:48 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: no, i'm talking about the reality of the american public, especially the armed public. this isn't an assumption, it's a direct observation. | 21:48 |
| rager | 63% of UK adults are overweight or obese | 21:48 |
| rager | how is 63% vs 71% a cause for celebration? | 21:48 |
| livebrain | tinwhiskers: you have restrictions that alot of ppl dont really obey | 21:49 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: just bad opinion and that only applies to the usa as well when there are so many other countries that could also leverage this bias | 21:49 |
| AimHere | \n3p\, I don't think it matters for the point you were making. It's unlikely that the economic downturn is going to cause anywhere near as many deaths are coronavirus is right at the moment | 21:49 |
| bin_bash | when there were whisperings of lockdown firearm purchases skyrocketed | 21:49 |
| bin_bash | that's a fact, not an opinion | 21:49 |
| livebrain | if we all would obey the lockdown then the infected new cases should drop alot | 21:49 |
| AimHere | It's not even going to be close | 21:49 |
| livebrain | that is not happening | 21:49 |
| AimHere | And that's even if the social distancing works the way it's supposed to | 21:50 |
| tinwhiskers | The whole world is not the usa. The bias can be leveraged of we don't remain willfully ignorant to the possibility | 21:50 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: i'm specifically talking about the US though | 21:50 |
| bin_bash | which I've tried to be clear about from the start | 21:50 |
| \n3p\ | AimHere, I see riots in that case. Americans will not accept a long lockdown | 21:50 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm not. I'm talking about managing the threat if the virus all around the world | 21:50 |
| rager | AimHere: look at California vs New York | 21:50 |
| rager | social distancing worked | 21:51 |
| Blankspace | My brother is stuck in the sea . | 21:51 |
| bin_bash | I'm certainly not at liberty to discuss how other cultures would react seeing as I am not part of them. I'm aying that there's no ay in hell 100 million Americans would accept being forcibly relocated | 21:51 |
| tinwhiskers | If the usa is too stubborn to do the right thing i don't care but the principle should be examined | 21:51 |
| \n3p\ | There will be a no one strategy fits all. Each country and city must develop it's own strategies | 21:51 |
| tinwhiskers | Dismissing the mere idea is the height of ignorance | 21:51 |
| rager | is the "right thing" forcible relocation of a third of the population at the point of a gun? | 21:52 |
| AimHere | \n3p\, I suspect that the rioting classes aren't the same as the 'ignore the lockdown' classes | 21:52 |
| rager | the USA refused to test early when it would've kept things managed because it'd spook markets to recognize | 21:52 |
| AimHere | \n3p\, the people most eager to restart the economy tend to be better off and less likely to either know how to riot properly, or to have the proper incentives | 21:52 |
| rager | }HM | 21:53 |
| \n3p\ | bin_bash, VOLUNTARY relocation. No forcibly | 21:53 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: right we should waste all the precious time we have on things that are obviously not feasible instead of looking at things from a more pragmatic perspective and considering niche solutions for unique situations /s | 21:53 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1850 cases (now 1685181), +76 deaths (now 102086), +122 recoveries (now 375204) since 23 minutes ago — US: +1537 cases (now 492816), +76 deaths (now 18323) since 23 minutes ago — Illinois, US: +1465 cases (now 17887), +68 deaths (now 596) since 23 minutes ago | 21:53 |
| bin_bash | \n3p\: yeah, again, like i said ~100 million vulnerable Americans | 21:53 |
| rager | the people most eager to restart the economy are the ones who have the most capital losses from the crsis | 21:53 |
| rager | also, the people who don't have to work retail | 21:53 |
| rager | lol | 21:53 |
| rager | you can't house 100mm americans | 21:54 |
| rager | America can't even house the people it has where it has em | 21:54 |
| tinwhiskers | That's also just ignorant. We have plenty of people available who could rationally discuss this without affecting the front line work on the virus. People can do more than one thing collectively. | 21:54 |
| rager | housing for 100mm people would cost trillions of dollars | 21:54 |
| aradesh | nice to see that italy and spain have definitely peaked by now | 21:54 |
| tinwhiskers | rager: they already have houses, no? | 21:54 |
| rager | have you seen America? | 21:55 |
| \n3p\ | bin_bash, i don't give up. must be a solution. | 21:55 |
| AimHere | Where's this 100 million relocations coming from? | 21:55 |
| AimHere | Did Trump say something completely impossible at the briefing? | 21:55 |
| aradesh | 980 recorded deaths today in the UK, a new record :/ | 21:56 |
| bin_bash | AimHere: i said there are probably appx 100 million vulnerable americans | 21:56 |
| tinwhiskers | If you have one fifth of the population that is vulnerable then you will need to allocate one fifth of existing housing to this purpose | 21:56 |
| AimHere | What exactly would be the purpose of relocation? | 21:56 |
| AimHere | Because I can't see how it's a practical virus control solution | 21:57 |
| blkshp | OH god, idiots are still setting burning down phone masts | 21:57 |
| rager | do you realize the housing shortfalls we already have in America? | 21:57 |
| AimHere | Since wherever you move people to, you bring the virus with you | 21:57 |
| rager | allocating a fifth of housing sounds like pie-in-the-sky sim city thinking | 21:57 |
| tinwhiskers | To separate the vulnerable from the less vulnerable so the less vulnerable can participate in the economy to a greater extent than of you treat everyone the same | 21:57 |
| rager | <blkshp "OH god, idiots are still setting"> the five gee makes you get the rona doe | 21:58 |
| bin_bash | AimHere: \n3p\ said we should just round up all the vulnerable people and put them in hotels and then everyone else can go about their lives. i said "lol no" | 21:58 |
| blkshp | get out :P | 21:58 |
| blkshp | And this was a bloody 4g mast lol | 21:58 |
| AimHere | bin_bash, yeah, it's very much a lol no! type solution | 21:58 |
| rager | blkshp: can't put 5g on it if it's already gone | 21:59 |
| blkshp | lol | 21:59 |
| tinwhiskers | rager: that might be as simple as walking down the street and putting a big red sticker on every fifth house, of course not that simple but something along those lines. You're not creating new housing or relocating people to a central location necessarily | 21:59 |
| rager | but that doesn't work | 22:00 |
| bin_bash | have fun getting shot i guess (again, everything i've been saying has been US-specific as i stated in the begining) | 22:00 |
| rager | everyone uses the same infrastructure in a community | 22:00 |
| tinwhiskers | The whole point is nobody had actually fleshed this out and you're all just jumping to conclusions | 22:00 |
| rager | what... there's a "vulnerable persons only" grocery store, now? | 22:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 19:56 UTC: /u/slakmehl: As Sweden continues to refuse lockdown, it's deaths per capita continue to soar relative to it's counterparts. If it were a US State, it would be in the top 5. → https://is.gd/CtFDvx | 22:00 |
| AimHere | How do you make sure these enclaves of vulnerable people aren't just petri dishes for the coronavirus? | 22:00 |
| rager | things are too interconnected to actually make this work | 22:00 |
| tinwhiskers | Jesus. The willful ignorance here sometimes | 22:01 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: i honestly think you'r being willfully ignorant when it coms to the realistic possibility of this in the US. I've provided real numbers that i've then guesstimated to a total of 100million vulneable people. not to mention geopgraphy, armed citizens, etc. | 22:01 |
| rager | on top of that, you're asking for the hospitals to be overrun in many areas | 22:02 |
| AimHere | There is that. A *lot* of hospitalizations are from people in non-vulnerable groups | 22:02 |
| rager | because not being as vulnerable for death doesn't mean you're not going to end up on a ventillator for weeks | 22:02 |
| AimHere | Separating out the elderly and those with comorbidities and letting the others get the virus still means you're packing the hopitals | 22:02 |
| AimHere | *hospitals | 22:02 |
| tinwhiskers | AimHere: so say you have a household with 4 people in it now and there is a vulnerable person there, then on overage they would be billeted to another household of four people consisting of all vulnerable people. So not a large gathering of vulnerable people. | 22:02 |
| tinwhiskers | You are not packing the hospitals. You're doing the opposite | 22:03 |
| rager | the prevalence of long-term intensive care even among "non-vunlerable" populations is enough to overwhelm the system as it is | 22:03 |
| rager | except maybe not in Germany | 22:03 |
| rager | dang Germany with their preparedness | 22:03 |
| rager | and lots of ICU beds | 22:03 |
| AimHere | Yes you are. The vulnerable people DIE from the coronavirus, but people in all groups get hospitalized | 22:03 |
| tinwhiskers | By isolating the vulnerable you're reducing the hospital load | 22:03 |
| AimHere | And your idea of having households full of vulnerable people is a disaster waiting to happen | 22:04 |
| rager | are you, even? | 22:04 |
| rager | the vulnerable don't stay sick as long | 22:04 |
| rager | they die | 22:04 |
| rager | the general population lingers in the hospital for weeks on a vent | 22:04 |
| AimHere | All it takes is for one of the residents to get infected and you've got four very sick people | 22:04 |
| tinwhiskers | Having nursing homes full of old people is a disaster waiting to happen. Having them in small household sized groups is by far the best option | 22:04 |
| rager | by opening the floodgates, you'd overwhelm all but the most "over-provisioned" systems | 22:05 |
| AimHere | Something like half of all hospitalizations are people under 50 or so | 22:05 |
| rager | as administrators would have called them | 22:05 |
| rager | more than that in a lot of areas | 22:05 |
| rager | since SPRING BREAK WOOO | 22:05 |
| AimHere | tinwhiskers, yes, nursing homes are disastrous. You're suggesting vulnerable people ALL live in places like that, while the outside world's virus goes unchecked | 22:05 |
| rager | we're not willfully ignorant | 22:05 |
| rager | and to call us willfully ignorant is itself just ignorant | 22:06 |
| tinwhiskers | AimHere: no, I'm very much not suggesting that | 22:06 |
| rager | don't add will to it | 22:06 |
| tinwhiskers | rager: if you refuse to consider the possibility that this should be thoroughly researched and not just dismissed out of hand then that is willful ignorance | 22:06 |
| l0ndoner | I've never seen so many vinyl gloves and face masks just tossed on the street... It's like vinyl gloves have become the new carrier bag plague | 22:07 |
| l0ndoner | im like wtf | 22:07 |
| rager | tinny... how hard is it to understand that young people end up on ventilators at alarmingly high rates? | 22:07 |
| rager | with covid-19, the young end up using ventilators for 2-3 weeks, too | 22:07 |
| rager | instead of dying and giving it to someone else | 22:08 |
| l0ndoner | rager the stats dont lie | 22:08 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes, they do, but at a far lower rate. There is a well known bias in this and it can be exploited if we wish | 22:08 |
| tinwhiskers | We shouldn't treat everyone like they have the same risk because they don't | 22:08 |
| rager | more than half of the hospitalizations where I am are people of working age | 22:08 |
| rager | some 60% | 22:08 |
| rager | what I'm saying is that a free-for-all in even the lowest-risk categories would be catastrophic in most areas | 22:09 |
| tinwhiskers | In general that is not the case. There is a well established bias in age. | 22:09 |
| tinwhiskers | Ignoring that is ignoring the evidence | 22:09 |
| l0ndoner | uk are now talking of staged phase 2 working from age group | 22:09 |
| tinwhiskers | l0ndoner: great! They are thinking | 22:09 |
| bin_bash | what exactl should be thoroughly researched though tinwhiskers? i was saying that \n3p\'s idea of rounding up all the vulnerable people and sticking them in hotels is not a viable solution in the US. I've provided numbers to back that up. I've provided primary observations of cultural issues that would cause high loss-of-life should something like that be attempted, so i just want to clarify if we're even | 22:10 |
| bin_bash | talking about the same thing | 22:10 |
| rager | uk was also talking about "herd immunity" being their only line of defense | 22:10 |
| rager | and its PM is in the ICU with covid-19 | 22:11 |
| rager | so they're thinking something, alright | 22:11 |
| tinwhiskers | Well, like the uk has clearly been doing. Thinking about it. Modeling it. Not dismissing it out of hand. That is pure ignorance | 22:11 |
| rager | reducing social distancing will kill members of vulnerable populations | 22:11 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: modeling what specifically though | 22:11 |
| rager | what increase in preventable death in the population is worth it for you? | 22:11 |
| l0ndoner | herd immunity works I believe in it just how and when | 22:12 |
| rager | how many deaths per point of GDP growth are too many? | 22:12 |
| jester | logan run selection | 22:12 |
| jester | over 30 dead | 22:12 |
| rager | herd immunity works.... next year | 22:12 |
| l0ndoner | rager you want to lift restrictions? | 22:12 |
| rager | no | 22:12 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: you come up with various scenarios. I don't claim to know what those might all be. That's the point of getting experts together. then you model those scenarios to see what works best. What you don't do is refuse to even consider it! | 22:12 |
| rager | but since lifting restrictions would result in more death, how many deaths per point of GDP growth are acceptible? | 22:13 |
| rager | after all, even a healthy economy kills people | 22:13 |
| rager | let's start the death machines! | 22:13 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: i was refusing to consider that rounding up 100 million americans is a viable solution. that's it, idk why even bother arguing about it the numbers alone preclude it. | 22:13 |
| tinwhiskers | Clearly the uk has been doing this, which pretty much proves the point that it can at least be considered if not adopted | 22:13 |
| tinwhiskers | bin_bash: i never said you need to round then all up | 22:14 |
| tinwhiskers | The numbers are pretty much irrelevant. They scale with population | 22:14 |
| l0ndoner | i'm out working every day ... admittedly I take precautions... But heres the thing. Humans by nature are tactile so you release 66million people and tell them not to mingle or be tactile ... give it 2 days it will fail | 22:15 |
| LjL | <rager> more than half of the hospitalizations where I am are people of working age <tinwhiskers> In general that is not the case. There is a well established bias in age. ← that is not really so true... it *is* true in general that more older than younger people end up in hospital and ICUs, but the difference isn't dramatic... what's dramatic is the difference in *death rates*. however, hospitalizations, including in ICUs, are alarmingly frequen | 22:15 |
| LjL | t at all ages. sure, the younger people in ICU usually survive... but would they survive without an ICU to take them? | 22:15 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: my entire argument was against what \n3p\ was saying about taking all the vulnerable people and putting them into hotel rooms and letting "everyone else" go about their daily lives. there are probably ~100 million vulnerable americans and there are 5 million guest rooms, not to mention the risk to the people who work in the environments. I never said that we shouldn't study different | 22:16 |
| bin_bash | approaches to partially re-opening things. | 22:16 |
| livebrain | almost all confirmed cases are considered mild and being treated at "home" LjL | 22:16 |
| livebrain | in my country | 22:16 |
| rager | only a quarter of hospitalizations require venting, from what I read | 22:17 |
| LjL | well, not in mind and not in China | 22:17 |
| LjL | mine* | 22:17 |
| rager | but a quarter is a fuckload | 22:17 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: ok. Interesting. Of course any such investigation needs to consider this bit that doesn't mean you shouldn't investigate the options | 22:17 |
| livebrain | we have 15k cases | 22:17 |
| livebrain | and >200 cases in ICU | 22:18 |
| rager | when the consequence of being too lax is "more people die", caution is warranted | 22:18 |
| rager | no? | 22:18 |
| livebrain | but almost everyone else is at home | 22:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:00 UTC: 'We will keep the roof over your head,' New York Mayor de Blasio says: Amid the financial fallour from the coronavirus pandemic, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio said he is working to institute a rent freeze for over 2 million New Yorkers. → https://is.gd/6fqFGf | 22:18 |
| graphine | weird discussion | 22:18 |
| l0ndoner | I'm out delivering to 120 customers a day. I then go out and deliver food parcels and medicines to the elderly when I'm done. I haven't become infected because I take precautions and keep my distance. Distancing works. I was dismissive of it at first | 22:20 |
| livebrain | the whole not touching and cleaning hands all the time | 22:21 |
| livebrain | is kinda hard | 22:21 |
| livebrain | you can distance yourself with ease | 22:21 |
| l0ndoner | yea but it works | 22:21 |
| livebrain | but you touch alot of things | 22:21 |
| graphine | you cannot distance from all people | 22:21 |
| livebrain | and i bite my nails, so the whole not touching the face is almost impossible for me | 22:21 |
| graphine | only if you live alone | 22:21 |
| l0ndoner | we have a litre spra bottle 1 cap bleeach to 1 litre bottle and spray all work services and door handles | 22:22 |
| l0ndoner | plus anything we touch in the car or van | 22:22 |
| l0ndoner | humans are very tactile creatures graphine | 22:23 |
| graphine | if you have companie or family that lives with you and need steady medical visits | 22:24 |
| graphine | distancing is pretty hard | 22:25 |
| graphine | but i guess lots of computer guys are already on social distancing before corona | 22:25 |
| l0ndoner | germany under control or still pretty high in numbers graphine ? | 22:25 |
| graphine | i do not think it is under control | 22:26 |
| graphine | pretty much underrated 1st | 22:26 |
| LjL | germany looks linear-ish but not in a convincing way | 22:26 |
| graphine | it will go up fast soon | 22:27 |
| graphine | i assure you people do not take care enough | 22:27 |
| graphine | i can see it right from my balcony easter will kill a lot of people soon | 22:27 |
| graphine | they sit outside with friends and even some travelled here from other parts of germany | 22:27 |
| graphine | idiots | 22:27 |
| graphine | i mean you do not need much brain to understand that travelling was not permitted | 22:28 |
| graphine | the fucking think HERE is that fines or tooo low | 22:28 |
| graphine | 5000 euros fine and social distancing will work | 22:28 |
| graphine | trust me | 22:28 |
| graphine | germans are scrooge | 22:28 |
| graphine | nearly no one is wearing a mask here | 22:29 |
| l0ndoner | graphine: no travel bans in place? | 22:29 |
| graphine | often people around ehre are like 3-5 in a bunch on a close spot | 22:29 |
| graphine | of course | 22:29 |
| graphine | but germans are stupid | 22:29 |
| graphine | not much left from goethe einstein and kant | 22:30 |
| euod[m] | yeah. in most places it's getting into summer, people feel like they need to go do summer things. | 22:30 |
| graphine | i hate to say that | 22:30 |
| graphine | but germans are selfish | 22:30 |
| graphine | look at the EU | 22:30 |
| euod[m] | I had a cute interaction with someone walking down my street, we negotiated with hand waving who wanted to cross to the other side to not walk past each other. that was surprisingly pleasant. | 22:30 |
| l0ndoner | I should be at the coast instead stuck inside waiting for 2% of population o die before they let us out | 22:30 |
| graphine | not all of course but a lot of germans are not caring except for themselves and their family | 22:30 |
| l0ndoner | to* | 22:30 |
| euod[m] | you're kidding right? | 22:31 |
| euod[m] | it's not a defined 2% of the population. | 22:31 |
| graphine | i hope i wasnt to direct and to open l0ndoner ? | 22:31 |
| euod[m] | the numbers we have right now are WITH social distancing. | 22:31 |
| l0ndoner | 1 to 2 % is msm and goverment reporting | 22:31 |
| graphine | but that is how i see it | 22:31 |
| l0ndoner | china could give birth toi that three times over | 22:32 |
| livebrain | here is 2.9% i believe | 22:32 |
| livebrain | i doubt 1% is real | 22:32 |
| livebrain | maybe they count someone that had heart problems dying | 22:32 |
| livebrain | as not related to covid-19 | 22:32 |
| livebrain | even though he was infected | 22:32 |
| graphine | l0ndoner, but your rates go up pretty much that worries me | 22:32 |
| l0ndoner | thier counting flu deaths as covid 19 | 22:33 |
| euod[m] | I'm amused that people are directing anger at their governments for responding now. | 22:33 |
| l0ndoner | so go figure | 22:33 |
| graphine | poor english people l0ndoner | 22:33 |
| euod[m] | be angry at them for not responding sooner. | 22:33 |
| livebrain | a good lesson we all need to take out of this | 22:33 |
| livebrain | is that having an industry is really a good thing | 22:33 |
| livebrain | outsourcing everything is not good | 22:34 |
| l0ndoner | graphine the stats of 1 - 2 % of deaths of world population is a median figure defined by WHO guidelines | 22:34 |
| livebrain | everyone is trying really hard to buy stuff from china now | 22:34 |
| livebrain | even masks | 22:34 |
| euod[m] | livebrain: that's how we have cheap modern lifestyles. | 22:34 |
| livebrain | well i have less money now | 22:35 |
| livebrain | than 20 years ago | 22:35 |
| livebrain | so... modern life kinda screwed me over | 22:35 |
| euod[m] | livebrain: if I want to make something, I know I have to do it in china because it's 100x more expensive to do it locally. | 22:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 20:25 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Francia → https://is.gd/heNOdE | 22:35 |
| livebrain | as a whole | 22:35 |
| livebrain | that creates low paying jobs | 22:35 |
| livebrain | in the services | 22:35 |
| livebrain | but in the individual yes... its better to outsource | 22:36 |
| graphine | l0ndoner, ? | 22:36 |
| euod[m] | no? as a company. not as an individual. | 22:36 |
| euod[m] | you'd be insane to make anything outside of china, it's just too expensive. | 22:36 |
| livebrain | euod[m]: a company can be an individual | 22:36 |
| graphine | i think thats underrated in afria will die much more people l0ndoner | 22:36 |
| livebrain | tax wise | 22:36 |
| euod[m] | everything you own in your house is made in china. | 22:36 |
| livebrain | yes and thats why i have less money now | 22:36 |
| livebrain | than 20 years ago | 22:36 |
| euod[m] | alright that's a lie, my ikea desk is made in poland. | 22:37 |
| livebrain | because all the jobs are either selling phones or driving tourists | 22:37 |
| euod[m] | livebrain: even before china became big, all the cheap crap was made in japan. | 22:37 |
| livebrain | japan and crap made in the same sentence ? | 22:37 |
| euod[m] | every electronic device in the 80s was made in japan, home of cheap fabrication and dodgy circuitry. | 22:37 |
| livebrain | i said 20 years | 22:38 |
| livebrain | not 40 years ago | 22:38 |
| euod[m] | 20 years ago it was still china. | 22:38 |
| graphine | i guess i may be one of them soon so far i feel pretty crappy l0ndoner lol | 22:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1523 cases (now 1686704) since 50 minutes ago — Germany: +888 cases (now 121045) since 50 minutes ago — US: +610 cases (now 493426) since 50 minutes ago | 22:38 |
| livebrain | not in the same degree | 22:38 |
| livebrain | we had industry in my country | 22:38 |
| l0ndoner | graphine sore throt? | 22:38 |
| livebrain | you feeling ill graphine ? | 22:39 |
| graphine | yes | 22:39 |
| livebrain | they also want to test me for covid-19 | 22:39 |
| graphine | maybe mom got it at the doctors | 22:39 |
| jester | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TZh9f7Ai9M | 22:39 |
| graphine | lol | 22:39 |
| livebrain | but i thing i only have an tonsilitis | 22:39 |
| livebrain | but because i was near a confirmed case... | 22:39 |
| graphine | i do not mind myself just hope she will not die | 22:39 |
| graphine | i dont care for myself | 22:40 |
| livebrain | a stupid guy that he new he was infected | 22:40 |
| graphine | :-) | 22:40 |
| livebrain | and he was out and working | 22:40 |
| livebrain | while his wife was in the hospital | 22:40 |
| livebrain | and he was also tested for positive... | 22:40 |
| l0ndoner | <-- 55 most at risk | 22:40 |
| graphine | dang thats awful | 22:40 |
| livebrain | why are some ppl just retarded... | 22:40 |
| livebrain | i mean ... if you are positive stay away from ppl | 22:40 |
| graphine | such people should just be shot | 22:40 |
| l0ndoner | but sod it I'd rather go out fighting than sitting in doors | 22:41 |
| livebrain | and he works in a TakeWay restaurant | 22:41 |
| graphine | at least i do have enough to eat for mom and me lol | 22:41 |
| graphine | and of course i ll stay at home now for at least a week | 22:42 |
| graphine | to see how it develops | 22:42 |
| graphine | temps is still not that high | 22:42 |
| graphine | could still be something else lol | 22:42 |
| graphine | but nevertheless i stay home to protect all others | 22:43 |
| mefistofeles | graphine: you should stay in at least 2, imho. But if you really have to go out, weark mask and shit | 22:43 |
| graphine | nawww | 22:43 |
| graphine | i ll stay inside | 22:43 |
| mefistofeles | ok | 22:43 |
| graphine | if i feel real sick i will call the i do not know how you call it in english | 22:43 |
| graphine | tehy may than come home and test you | 22:43 |
| livebrain | and while his wife was in the hospital he was dancing in the restaurante alone with loud music | 22:44 |
| mefistofeles | sure | 22:44 |
| graphine | of cause i will never ever take the risk to other people i am not an asshole | 22:44 |
| graphine | lol | 22:44 |
| livebrain | graphine: i have a number to call, but most likelly they will only test me in a week or 2 | 22:44 |
| graphine | i see | 22:44 |
| graphine | i think here it is easier my town is also a federal state | 22:44 |
| livebrain | so 2 weeks to get tested, i will either be ok or dead lol | 22:45 |
| livebrain | either way it wont count as a positive | 22:45 |
| graphine | you will be okay livebrain | 22:45 |
| graphine | it can be still so much else | 22:45 |
| livebrain | actually i think i only have a tonsilitis, i get like 5 or 6 each year | 22:45 |
| graphine | germs or bacteria | 22:45 |
| livebrain | this testing was because of the other retard that was out | 22:46 |
| livebrain | while knowing he was positive | 22:46 |
| graphine | but i can still smell and taste stuff if it interests you | 22:46 |
| livebrain | thats good news then | 22:46 |
| graphine | yes | 22:46 |
| graphine | plus nose it is not running | 22:46 |
| mefistofeles | diarrhea? | 22:47 |
| livebrain | i would look at fever | 22:47 |
| livebrain | and coughing | 22:47 |
| graphine | didnt cough for hours | 22:47 |
| mefistofeles | also, asymptomatic cases are a thing :P actually the most common thing | 22:47 |
| graphine | but usually i cough a lot even if no corona is around lol | 22:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:35 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Italy extends lockdown into May, $30 billion in aid sent to hospitals → https://is.gd/LrJAJY | 22:47 |
| graphine | temps are still around 36.x and 37x celsius | 22:47 |
| livebrain | the doctor that called me agrees that most likelly is a tonsilitis, but he advised me to get tested anyway | 22:47 |
| graphine | so i do not worry so far | 22:48 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, yeah, even with covid-19 chances is that you won't have to worry | 22:49 |
| mefistofeles | s/is/are | 22:50 |
| Mumuks[m] | <graphine "plus nose it is not running"> The Wuhan Coronavirus is known to not make the nose run, just coughing and shit | 22:50 |
| graphine | not really coughing lol | 22:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2110 cases (now 1688814), +96 deaths (now 102230) since 20 minutes ago — US: +2110 cases (now 495536), +96 deaths (now 18427) since 20 minutes ago — Massachusetts, US: +2033 cases (now 20974), +96 deaths (now 599) since 20 minutes ago | 22:53 |
| LjL | 18<19graphine18> but i can still smell and taste stuff if it interests you ← this is probably an uncommon symptom that was blown over proportion because, well, it sounds like something clever people could use to find out whether they have it | 22:54 |
| graphine | LjL, yes | 22:55 |
| graphine | a lot of maybes | 22:55 |
| graphine | so many even have nearly no symptomes or lets say not enough to see the doctors and become tested | 22:56 |
| LjL | graphine, in many places people with a LOT of symptoms aren't being tested or taken to hospital because the "requirements" to get admitted are getting more and more stringent. it is that way in italy. the fact that germany has many more ICUs probably has something to do with the different death rates (together with more widespread testing, but i suspect that's not the main thing) | 22:58 |
| graphine | oh if you compare italy and germany i have my opinion | 22:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:52 UTC: War veteran, 99, receives guard of honour from nurses after surviving coronavirus – video: Albert Chambers, a 99-year-old second world war veteran, has been discharged from hospital after recovering from Covid-19. Chambers, who will be 100 in July, was wounded in the war and spent three years in a prison camp. He [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/6iFtJT | 22:59 |
| LjL | well the case curves are pretty comparable. the death curves aren't so much | 23:00 |
| graphine | italian love family in general germans do not so they tick much together all the time LjL that may be one reason here now some people in homes for elderly are starting to die visiting is now not permitted but you know what i was always interested in that area and the truth is that old people are never often visitted not if they are in speical homes or still in their own appartment thats the fact here in germany | 23:01 |
| graphine | so maybe that is why much more old people die in italy because their families cared and visigtted them before they knew about corona at all | 23:02 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: yes, that's because Italy has much more cases and they didn't test as much | 23:02 |
| graphine | you should never forget the people and cultural background | 23:02 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, i don't think that's why, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. graphine's thing also seems plausible to me. | 23:02 |
| graphine | i am something try to think just with logic you know | 23:03 |
| graphine | not only with the scientific background | 23:03 |
| LjL | get https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany;Italy and align at 50 cases, then look at the doubling time too. these overlap ridiculously well. i don't think either curve shows signs of drastic over- or undertesting compared to the other. | 23:03 |
| LjL | i am sure it plays *some* role, but i'm not sure it's the main determinant | 23:03 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: you can easily check that | 23:03 |
| graphine | here in my part of the city a lot of foreigners live and NO i like them but at least i know how they behave they are more phisically they usuall get closer if the talk and so on | 23:04 |
| mefistofeles | you can see how germany has much more tests and also much lower positive/confirmed ratio | 23:04 |
| graphine | we will never really know it LjL | 23:04 |
| mefistofeles | that shows under testing of Italy compared to germany | 23:04 |
| graphine | we can just try to find some explanations | 23:04 |
| graphine | you cant even compare germany with germany | 23:05 |
| graphine | so much difference the "ruhrgebiet" is one of the most populated places in europe | 23:05 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, it shows they tested more. it doesn't show there are fewer true cases. maybe italy's tests were just more targeted. i don't really think that's why, but it's a cause you can't rule out. numbers for positives and total tests don't mean a whole lot unless you can look at the actual testing protocols being used | 23:05 |
| LjL | graphine, yes indeed the situation is very different even just between Lombardy and Veneto in Italy. different population density, but also very different testing protocols. | 23:06 |
| graphine | yes | 23:06 |
| LjL | the regions act somewhat independently in healthcare matters, and so do the states in germany | 23:06 |
| graphine | plus people talk so much about germany but they do not know much about germany | 23:06 |
| graphine | eg france is a centralized country | 23:06 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: yes Italy's tests were targeted because they have so much more cases | 23:07 |
| graphine | and germany has strong federal states that all counts | 23:07 |
| mefistofeles | so they couldn't keep up | 23:07 |
| mefistofeles | unlike Germany | 23:07 |
| graphine | and you know what LjL | 23:07 |
| mefistofeles | that even with less cases is showing that they are getting more confirmed/cases than most other countries | 23:07 |
| mefistofeles | and specially over Italy or Spain | 23:07 |
| graphine | i am deeply sorry i know more about the roman empire lol than actually about the modern italy that was how we raised at school LjL | 23:07 |
| LjL | graphine, erm, well... same | 23:08 |
| graphine | you see | 23:08 |
| graphine | that is why i listen to you so much and love it | 23:08 |
| LjL | graphine, 19th and 20th century history is rushed in schools, or at least was when i was in school | 23:08 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, France is also way under testing | 23:08 |
| graphine | i like what you LjL and l0ndoner and mefistofeles state and the info you give | 23:08 |
| graphine | but the answer is not that easy | 23:09 |
| LjL | the answer is a combination of things | 23:09 |
| LjL | each one of us is stating what we think is the main factor | 23:09 |
| LjL | maybe they are all concurring to it in roughly equal amounts | 23:09 |
| mefistofeles | it's actually pretty basic epidemiology thing, one thing is the confirmed/visible cases and the other is the real cases | 23:09 |
| mefistofeles | Germany is closer to the latter than Italy | 23:09 |
| mefistofeles | way closer | 23:09 |
| graphine | for example hamburg and bremen are cities but they are also federal states so they have better posibilities in health than other regular cities | 23:09 |
| graphine | you know | 23:10 |
| graphine | so its hard to compare things than with lets say bavaria | 23:10 |
| graphine | i feel pretty safe here maybe that is stupid but they say here in bremen your are in the next hospital in only a few minutes we even have a stationed rescue helicopter here | 23:11 |
| graphine | most doctors are from the university in göttingen which is a well known medical university | 23:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: LA County extends stay-at-home order, $30 billion in aid sent to hospitals → https://is.gd/LrJAJY | 23:12 |
| mefistofeles | of course, the age thing was explaining it at the beginning, because eldery population wasn't being hit in Germany, but now that's not much the case , from the age distribution... though it's still worse in that sense for Italy | 23:12 |
| graphine | so i try to stay calm some people who live more rural are really fucked | 23:12 |
| graphine | i am just so deeply sorry for the dead people in italy and that we did not help earlier that i makes me being ashamed of being german | 23:13 |
| graphine | thatwas awful | 23:13 |
| LjL | graphine, this is not like a heart attack where you survive if you're taken to hospital within three minutes, though. this is more about... are there still some hospital beds free for people with my level of illness? | 23:13 |
| graphine | i know that | 23:13 |
| LjL | and in germany the answer is going to be "yes, including ICUs" in most cases. not so in italy | 23:13 |
| graphine | but the side effects | 23:13 |
| graphine | they can help | 23:13 |
| graphine | and they are well prepared here to give oxygen and so | 23:14 |
| graphine | because we have a special heart surgery point here means they have those bed where they can vent | 23:14 |
| graphine | as far as i know | 23:14 |
| graphine | LjL, i guess you understood me | 23:15 |
| graphine | not a matter of minutes | 23:15 |
| graphine | with minutes i mean that a hospital is evern around and soon around | 23:16 |
| graphine | if you live 100 km away no one will bring you there | 23:16 |
| LjL | but you may also be less exposed than someone in a dense urban environment | 23:17 |
| graphine | thats the bad truth some rural areas in germany even do not have enough doctors so that means we are back tothe fact that they are maybe just dead | 23:17 |
| graphine | and no one already knows lol | 23:17 |
| mefistofeles | oh hell I was writing in the wrong channel | 23:17 |
| graphine | sorry for the LOL was bitter irony | 23:17 |
| graphine | something i think germany is pretty seen wrong outside of us | 23:18 |
| graphine | we pretty suck in lots of way | 23:18 |
| graphine | ways | 23:18 |
| mefistofeles | I'm just going to repaste things here, but they would be out of context, sorry | 23:18 |
| mefistofeles | that's why death rate in germany went from 0.2% to 2% or so, in a week | 23:18 |
| mefistofeles | you don't see that rate doubling as fast in Italy | 23:18 |
| mefistofeles | same reasons: vulnerable people were already being hit since the beginning (not in Germany) and under testing, diseased grew exponentially while testing was basically linear (simplifying) | 23:18 |
| mefistofeles | and again, probably the country that could keep up better with that exponential growth also in tests was Germany | 23:19 |
| graphine | yes mefistofeles | 23:19 |
| mefistofeles | well, at least comparing the big hit europeans ones | 23:19 |
| graphine | but now they die like flies in the homes for elderly | 23:19 |
| graphine | starting yet | 23:19 |
| graphine | one news was that 38 of the staff in such a home is positive or in qurantine | 23:20 |
| graphine | no one was there anymore to care | 23:20 |
| mefistofeles | yes, and now they cannot keep up with the exponential growth, but that's expected | 23:20 |
| mefistofeles | specially now that we already know it's slowing down | 23:20 |
| mefistofeles | it's crucial to know whether it's slowing down | 23:20 |
| graphine | but they did not tell how many of the edlerly there in that home are positive | 23:20 |
| graphine | they try to get to an exit strategy | 23:21 |
| graphine | so now they start to hide infos | 23:21 |
| graphine | economy wants to push to go back to normal life and they will | 23:21 |
| graphine | our government is more on the side of the money. | 23:21 |
| graphine | they already discuss a certain fee for all people who work | 23:22 |
| graphine | to get rid of the costs of corona | 23:22 |
| graphine | no one asks the thousands of millionaires in germany to pay a fee | 23:22 |
| graphine | and if we will lower social distancing i assure you how they will regret it | 23:23 |
| graphine | and they will do it soon | 23:23 |
| graphine | i hope your govs are more wise and care less for the money | 23:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 21:18 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: 'Deadly resurgence' if curbs lifted too early, WHO warns → https://is.gd/nC8lzu | 23:24 |
| jester | that may change | 23:29 |
| graphine | i will meassure my temps | 23:31 |
| graphine | to have a test row | 23:31 |
| rager | my grandma's in a home | 23:31 |
| rager | if someone brought c-19 into the home, she dies | 23:31 |
| graphine | is there no visit stop? | 23:31 |
| rager | she's had a lot of years, but I think she wants to live to see my wedding whenever it all clears, at least | 23:32 |
| graphine | my temp is somewhat stable | 23:32 |
| graphine | when will you have wedding? | 23:32 |
| graphine | you need to invite some guys from here | 23:32 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <graphine "i will meassure my temps"> ... Did it for the first 11,12 days, its helping pychologically, eventually you stop again... | 23:33 |
| graphine | lol | 23:33 |
| graphine | did you have symptomes or your family | 23:33 |
| graphine | i am not in panic or under paranoia | 23:33 |
| LjL | graphine, don't just measure your temperature many times in a row... if you want to get a good baseline measure it over a *day* | 23:34 |
| sternenmusik[m] | it does make sense. | 23:34 |
| LjL | graphine, i don't think that will matter a lot for COVID, but, just in general | 23:34 |
| graphine | i do not care for covid19 | 23:34 |
| graphine | i care if i catched something else to be able to tell the doctor at least something more | 23:35 |
| graphine | than i just feel ill | 23:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:24 UTC: (news): Trump says US will have 'substantially under' 100,000 deaths from coronavirus, lower than initial estimates → https://is.gd/1gvZNI | 23:36 |
| graphine | but to be honest it feels more like something i had years ago | 23:36 |
| graphine | strepto or staphylokogs | 23:38 |
| graphine | or however you spell it | 23:38 |
| graphine | we shall see | 23:38 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Viral pneumonia is often followed by a bactwerial pneumonia which is then way more dangerous than the viral one... | 23:40 |
| l0ndoner | sternenmusik[m]: good luck with that | 23:41 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <l0ndoner "sternenmusik: good luck with th"> ? | 23:41 |
| sternenmusik[m] | l0ndoner:? | 23:42 |
| rager | now kis | 23:43 |
| l0ndoner | sternenmusik[m]: good luck with your nasal congestion and headache :) | 23:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 21:40 UTC: ljl-covid: Add Switzerland, Austria and better France → https://is.gd/s1eGCV | 23:48 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <l0ndoner "sternenmusik: good luck with you"> You are well informed about me. How is this possible? | 23:49 |
| sternenmusik[m] | l0ndoner: how do you know about my nasal congestion I told 30 Minutes ago? | 23:52 |
| LjL | what is even going on | 23:56 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Now pray. | 23:59 |
| sternenmusik[m] | But god wont listen anymore be realistic. | 23:59 |
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