| ryouma | the us does not have good healthcare unless you are in the populations that have good healthcare. if that makes sense. | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| ryouma | if you're a us senator you have good healthcare | 00:00 |
| ryouma | if you have a disease they dont' want to acknowledge exists, you do not have good healthcare; if you do not have insurance, you do not either; ... | 00:01 |
| \n3p\ | ryouma, that is better than socialist countries with ONLY bad healthcare | 00:01 |
| ryouma | i am not insterested in the socialized vs. non-socialized medicine debate | 00:02 |
| \n3p\ | ryouma, your are talking about that. USA have better health system than most countries | 00:03 |
| tinwhiskers | lol | 00:03 |
| ryouma | for whom | 00:03 |
| tinwhiskers | if by best you mean most waste and most people who can't get it | 00:04 |
| Urchin | \n3p\: is it used to save anyone? | 00:04 |
| \n3p\ | tinwhiskers, talk to Canadians or Europeans that can't have the health care they need and have to fly to US to get iy | 00:05 |
| LjL | %cases | 00:06 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, worldwide, there are 3.2 million cases and 193157 deaths (6.1% of cases, 0.00% of the population), as of a minute ago. 18.2 million tests were performed (17.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 00:06 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, ↑ | 00:06 |
| LjL | probably a ton of bugs but we're going to find out ;) | 00:06 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah :-) | 00:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:02 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: US death toll tops 20,000, Governors call for $500 billion more in aid → https://is.gd/qopNVC | 00:06 |
| tinwhiskers | like that link | 00:06 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm working on it | 00:06 |
| ryouma | the debate is sometimes used to overshadow bigger or less obvious questions. and to gloss over facts. it has plenty arguing it. both sides have their talking poitns. it's an argument between talking point lists. thre are more relevant things to talk about. | 00:06 |
| \n3p\ | tinwhiskers, talk to Italians that just die because Italy don't have respirators | 00:07 |
| tinwhiskers | jesus | 00:07 |
| \n3p\ | tinwhiskers, talk to Italians that just die because Italy don't have ventilators | 00:07 |
| ryouma | it might be argued that nyc does not have good healthcare right now | 00:08 |
| \n3p\ | Yes. NYC is a progressive shithole. They spend the money in solar panels and non-sense like that | 00:08 |
| ryouma | we have sequed from the topic to the socialized vs. non-socialized healthcare to left-right politics | 00:09 |
| ecks | solar power is communist | 00:10 |
| \n3p\ | Politicians and policies impact in health care quality | 00:10 |
| ecks | imagine having a virtually unlimited power source for free | 00:10 |
| ecks | we're having none of that here | 00:10 |
| \n3p\ | You are seen in real time how socialist health care systems collapse | 00:11 |
| spybert | I see we're getting dragged into US partisan party politics again :-( | 00:11 |
| veirkov | hi | 00:11 |
| livebrain | ecks: germany is handling kinda well | 00:12 |
| livebrain | and new york is kinda under stress | 00:12 |
| ryouma | why is everyblody saying wyoming does not exist? | 00:13 |
| spybert | ryouma: Low population | 00:13 |
| ryouma | so? | 00:14 |
| LjL | ryouma, probably one of the innumerable variations on "Belgium doesn't exist" | 00:14 |
| LjL | is meme | 00:14 |
| ryouma | just meaningless? | 00:14 |
| tinwhiskers | %cases scotland | 00:16 |
| Brainstorm | tinwhiskers: In Scotland, United Kingdom, there are 5590 cases and 495 deaths (8.9% of cases, 0.01% of the population), as of 11 minutes ago. 28652 tests were performed (19.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Scotland for time series data. | 00:16 |
| rager | name six people from wyoming | 00:17 |
| rager | bet you can't reach 1 because wyoming is a fictional location from western movies | 00:17 |
| spybert | What does Wyoming have to do with covid-19 anyway? Nothing about the numbers are unusual | 00:17 |
| ryouma | name six from china | 00:17 |
| ryouma | or india | 00:18 |
| rager | Xi, Mao, Yao, Ma... dammit | 00:18 |
| LjL | ryouma, probably pretty meaningless for Wyoming, but https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/4k9gin/why_are_people_saying_that_belgium_doesnt_exist/ https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/sep/17/iantraynor.international | 00:18 |
| ryouma | lol | 00:18 |
| rager | Chan, Lee | 00:18 |
| LjL | ryouma, after the belgium thing went viral other countries felt the need to state which part of them also didn't exist | 00:18 |
| rager | actually india/china area easy - just gotta open work slack | 00:19 |
| spybert | Lots Actually, after what Belgium did before ww2 gives France good reason to pretend they don'texist. | 00:20 |
| rager | or for Adams to claim that it's a swear in every known language in the universe | 00:20 |
| joshua[m]1 | %data South Carolina | 00:22 |
| Brainstorm | joshua[m]1: In South Carolina, United States, there are 3207 cases and 80 deaths (2.5% of cases, 0.00% of the population), as of 2 minutes ago. 30093 tests were performed (10.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=South%20Carolina for time series data. | 00:22 |
| ryouma | %data wyoming | 00:23 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In Wyoming, United States, there are 261 cases and 0 deaths (0.0% of cases, 0.00% of the population), as of 3 minutes ago. 4975 tests were performed (5.2% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Wyoming for time series data. | 00:23 |
| ryouma | %data belgium | 00:23 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, Belgium, there are 28018 cases and 3346 deaths (11.9% of cases, 0.03% of the population), as of 3 minutes ago. 102151 tests were performed (27.4% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Belgium for time series data. | 00:23 |
| ryouma | %data tonga | 00:23 |
| LjL | clearly, Tonga doesn't exist | 00:23 |
| Brainstorm | ConnectionError: ('Connection aborted.', BadStatusLine('No status line received - the server has closed the connection',)) (file "/home/brainstorm/.local/share/virtualenvs/bot-xPCSx1pa/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/requests/adapters.py", line 498, in send) | 00:23 |
| LjL | lol | 00:24 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, it didn't do this when i tried before! | 00:24 |
| spybert | There are probably more Tongans in silicon valley than there are people from Wyoming :-) | 00:24 |
| ryouma | i can't possibly verify that or disconfirm | 00:26 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: erm. where did that come from? | 00:26 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, your server, presumably | 00:26 |
| LjL | only thing i connect to | 00:26 |
| tinwhiskers | odd | 00:26 |
| LjL | it might have been a one off | 00:27 |
| LjL | probably was | 00:27 |
| LjL | %data tonga | 00:27 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: Sorry, tonga not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 00:27 |
| ryouma | i have a talent for discovering bugs in sw | 00:31 |
| ryouma | first time i sat down at a 150k usd lisp machine i crashed it. those don't crash. | 00:31 |
| jcay | Madonna joined GatesFoundation, quite nice from her | 00:32 |
| jcay | https://twitter.com/Madonna/status/1246094317913071616 | 00:33 |
| python476 | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22840057 2004 paper about NO and coronavirus interactions | 00:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:32 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update live: travellers fly in from cruise nightmare as Christians adapt to Easter in a pandemic – latest news → https://is.gd/33VMQw | 00:45 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Michigan stay-at-home order now bans visits to friends, relatives, governor says (10025 votes) | https://redd.it/fz3et4 | 00:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus* at 22:35 UTC: Coronavirus: Barack Obama slams Wisconsin for going ahead with ‘debacle’ election during stay-at-home order → https://is.gd/ip9rWE | 00:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United States: +1003 cases (now 528706) since 32 minutes ago — Florida, United States: +492 cases (now 18986) since 32 minutes ago — Colorado, United States: +383 cases (now 6893) since 32 minutes ago | 00:52 |
| ynhof[m] | My doctors are somewhat ignorant and I'd like to know what you think of the solution; putting all issues into a github repo. | 00:57 |
| ynhof[m] | They refuse email and are pushy on phone consult. | 00:57 |
| ynhof[m] | Currently about to switch practices for a second time in 2 months | 00:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 23:09 UTC: /u/slakmehl: This is the second day of declining deaths in France. → https://is.gd/u6ryPO | 01:12 |
| mefistofeles | stinkpot: yes, basically O'm stuck in Germany so far xD | 01:27 |
| mefistofeles | *I'm | 01:27 |
| kPa | u okay in germany? | 01:28 |
| Toadisattva | placed my first ever grocery pickup order, hope they have stock, it's mostly just produce | 01:28 |
| Toadisattva | ordered some TP off amazon, it won't be here for over a month lol | 01:29 |
| kPa | what's the estimated time to delivery from placing a grocery order? here it's over a week | 01:29 |
| Toadisattva | I got pickup instead of delivery I ordered a few minutes ago (early evnening here) and it will be available tomorrow at noon | 01:30 |
| kPa | not bad | 01:31 |
| Toadisattva | yeah pretty decent | 01:31 |
| Toadisattva | I'm glad I stocked up pretty heavily when this thing first hit, other than pickup orders for produce I shouldn't need to set foot near a grocery store for at least another month | 01:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:23 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update live: travellers fly in from cruise nightmare as Christians adapt to Easter in a pandemic – latest news → https://is.gd/33VMQw | 01:33 |
| Toadisattva | sooner or later I'm gonna need more oats and nuts and stuff and the store I get those at doesn't do pickup unfortunately | 01:34 |
| Toadisattva | hopefully we get get through the major peak before that time comes though | 01:34 |
| mefistofeles | kPa: all good in Germany, yes | 01:35 |
| mefistofeles | thanks for asking | 01:35 |
| kPa | you're weclome :) glad to hear it | 01:35 |
| kPa | welcome* | 01:35 |
| Toadisattva | you guys got toilet paper and hand sanitizer stuff on the shelves like normal in Germany? any masks? | 01:36 |
| Toadisattva | just curious how other countries are handling product supply, it's a mess in the US | 01:36 |
| Birosso | My town in Germany has everything except pasta and TP. | 01:37 |
| Birosso | Yes, PASTA! | 01:37 |
| LjL | %cases Lower Saxony | 01:37 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Lower Saxony, Germany, there are 7343 cases (0.1% of the population) and 171 deaths (2.3% of cases), as of 2 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lower%20Saxony for time series data. | 01:37 |
| Toadisattva | not bad | 01:38 |
| livebrain | %cases Portugal | 01:38 |
| Brainstorm | livebrain: In all areas, Portugal, there are 15987 cases (0.2% of the population) and 470 deaths (2.9% of cases), as of 3 minutes ago. 155193 tests were performed (10.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Portugal for time series data. | 01:38 |
| livebrain | i think its 2 day behind those values | 01:39 |
| LjL | livebrain, are you saying the data are two days behind? | 01:41 |
| livebrain | no i was wrong | 01:41 |
| livebrain | the confirmed cases i thought it was 17k | 01:42 |
| livebrain | i was wrong | 01:42 |
| livebrain | the data shown is updated | 01:42 |
| mefistofeles | Birosso: yeah, pasta is a big deal now | 01:42 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i guess i can probably remove the "as of", the original data don't really have a timestamp now, right? | 01:42 |
| Toadisattva | %cases los angeles | 01:42 |
| Toadisattva | needa be caps? | 01:43 |
| LjL | %cases california | 01:43 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, it doesn't have individual cities. | 01:43 |
| mefistofeles | Birosso: https://xkcd.com/2287/ | 01:43 |
| LjL | also it appears to be dead | 01:43 |
| Toadisattva | oh okay | 01:43 |
| LjL | Brainstorm! | 01:43 |
| LjL | yeah, restarting | 01:43 |
| ynhof[m] | Room smell overhwelmed with feral cat urine scent. | 01:45 |
| ynhof[m] | Advice from doctor: self isolate | 01:45 |
| Birosso | mefistofeles: lol | 01:45 |
| LjL | wut | 01:45 |
| Toadisattva | lol that xkcd is great | 01:45 |
| LjL | %cases california | 01:46 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Baja California, Mexico, there are 68 cases (0.0% of the population) and 2 deaths (2.9% of cases), as of 11 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Baja%20California for time series data. | 01:46 |
| LjL | lol, wrong california | 01:46 |
| Toadisattva | zlol | 01:46 |
| LjL | well this needs fixed, but there should be a workaround | 01:46 |
| LjL | %cases ca | 01:46 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Central African Rep., there are 8 cases (0.0% of the population) and 0 deaths (0.0% of cases), as of 11 minutes ago. See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Central%20African%20Rep. for time series data. | 01:46 |
| LjL | or not | 01:46 |
| LjL | okay then it just needs fixed | 01:46 |
| ynhof[m] | (Likely from some airway infection in lungs) | 01:47 |
| ynhof[m] | Did my message get deleted or did I remove it | 01:47 |
| LjL-Matrix | i see nothing deleted | 01:50 |
| livebrain | you can remove irc messages ? | 01:51 |
| danielp3344 | no | 01:51 |
| Birosso | I hate you all. | 01:52 |
| Birosso | Oh god... | 01:52 |
| Birosso | You can't remove, no. | 01:52 |
| danielp3344 | Birosso: :C | 01:52 |
| mefistofeles | Birosso: don't worry, just like covid-19, nobody will remember | 01:53 |
| mefistofeles | haha | 01:53 |
| LjL | livebrain, what they said is true, there's just the small detail that they're not on IRC, they're on Matrix | 01:58 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: yeah. the time is pretty meaningless now. | 02:01 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, too bad, it was my only excuse for still providing seemingly-randomly timed updates | 02:02 |
| tinwhiskers | well, the updates are still happening so keep doing that, but it's just not really possible to know when a specific update occurred. | 02:03 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, it's just that i'm often asked "that's new cases since when?" and for me personally, it's just... i want to know when there's an update, and gauge the magnitude, then i'll look at graphs if i want to know more, but i can understand it's a bit of a lone number without an x axis | 02:05 |
| LjL | i could still do it if i saved state. which i am not sure i can be bothered to :P | 02:05 |
| tinwhiskers | ah | 02:05 |
| LjL | ynhof[m], anyway you're saying you had a sudden olfactory change? | 02:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +8307 cases (now 130727) since 17 minutes ago — Saxony-Anhalt, Germany: +2430 cases (now 3565) since 17 minutes ago — Connecticut, United States: +972 cases (now 11510) since 17 minutes ago | 02:07 |
| LjL | poor france | 02:07 |
| ynhof[m] | Sorry I just got carried away typing that | 02:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American at 00:07 UTC: Disease Outbreaks Happen All the Time, But...: COVID-19 reminds us that failure to prepare can lead to disaster -- Read more on ScientificAmerican.com → https://is.gd/8elaus | 02:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:12 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update live: travellers fly in from cruise nightmare as Christians adapt to Easter in a pandemic – latest news → https://is.gd/33VMQw | 02:23 |
| LjL | ynhof[m], well... i'll tell you what i've told other people who might have it: see if you can buy a pulse oximeter, although they've become expensive. it doesn't give you "the" answer, or even a particular answer, but if your saturation goes below 90% or so, and you are able to tell doctors that when you call, you are more likely to be hospitalized, which i hope won't be needed, but if it is needed... sometimes you need good arguments. | 02:24 |
| adventurer | https://9now.nine.com.au/a-current-affair/coronavirus-italys-bergamo-province-devastated-by-killer-covid-19/bead4d4e-2e39-4803-a49a-1531f694946e | 02:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:30 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update live: Victoria extends state of emergency as travellers fly in from cruise nightmare – latest news → https://is.gd/33VMQw | 02:38 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: White House rejects bailout for U.S. Postal Service battered by coronavirus (10042 votes) | https://redd.it/fz93um | 02:40 |
| nb | %cases indiana | 02:40 |
| Brainstorm | nb: In Indiana, United States, there are 7435 cases (0.1% of the population) and 330 deaths (4.4% of cases), as of 20 minutes ago. 39215 tests were performed (19.0% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20States for time series data. | 02:40 |
| freelock | %cases washington | 02:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:02 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Don't yield to fear, says Pope, amid Easter lockdown: Christians adapt to culmination of holy week without ceremonies as US death toll becomes the highest in the world; Italy, India, Saudi Arabia, Puerto Rico extend lockdown → https://is.gd/5DqUwq | 03:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United States: +1614 cases (now 531468), +60 deaths (now 20566) since an hour ago — Argentina: +167 cases (now 2142) since an hour ago — Brazil: +117 cases (now 20962) since an hour ago | 03:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:06 UTC: (news): US coronavirus death toll tops 20,000, Governors call for $500 billion more in aid → https://is.gd/qopNVC | 03:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:14 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Don't yield to fear, says Pope, amid Easter lockdown: Christians adapt to culmination of holy week without ceremonies as US death toll becomes the highest in the world; Italy, India, Saudi Arabia, Puerto Rico extend lockdown → https://is.gd/5DqUwq | 03:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 01:30 UTC: /u/slakmehl: https://www.brusselstimes.com/all-news/belgium-all-news/105848/nearly-half-of-belgiums-coronavirus-deaths-are-nursing-home-residents/ → https://is.gd/DgJPcc | 03:35 |
| BruntLIVE | Video from Pastor Hamilton of King James Bible Baptist Church in Greenville, MS. Church tried the “drive-in” method of holding services & were targeted due to the Mayor issuing an order prohibiting such services. Watch as an officer tells the Pastor that his rights are suspended. https://twitter.com/PoliticalShort/status/1249019585887698945?s=20. | 03:37 |
| ryouma | huh, freedom of religion is sometimes considered, like, the most sacred right in the us | 03:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 01:37 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Florida appears to be making a concerted effort to conceal infections and deaths specifically in elder-care facilities. Data on nursing home infections and deaths in Georgia has also been hard to come by. → https://is.gd/AB5d2s | 03:42 |
| ryouma | :( | 03:42 |
| ryouma | 6 months ago, i'd have placed pretty low odds on, without context, 1) casual talk about lockdown 2) religious services canceled 3) casual talk of walking into a bank wearing a bandana over face | 03:43 |
| BeardedSmith | herm | 03:45 |
| BeardedSmith | anyone on? | 03:45 |
| BeardedSmith | no news is good news eh? | 03:45 |
| ynhof[m] | %data Czech Republic | 03:48 |
| Brainstorm | ynhof[m]: Sorry, Czech Republic not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name. | 03:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:42 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: UK pledges 200 million pounds in aid to stop a second wave of outbreak → https://is.gd/tqEU7V | 03:49 |
| nb | ynhof[m], I wonder if it is under czechia? | 03:51 |
| ryouma | %data czechia | 03:51 |
| Brainstorm | ryouma: In all areas, Czechia, there are 5902 cases (0.1% of the population) and 129 deaths (2.2% of cases), as of a minute ago. 120285 tests were performed (4.9% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Czechia for time series data. | 03:51 |
| Urchin | %data croatia | 03:52 |
| Brainstorm | Urchin: In all areas, Croatia, there are 1534 cases (0.0% of the population) and 21 deaths (1.4% of cases), as of 2 minutes ago. 15691 tests were performed (9.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.5% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 6.1% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Croatia for time series data. | 03:52 |
| Urchin | %data switzerland | 03:53 |
| Brainstorm | Urchin: In all areas, Switzerland, there are 25107 cases (0.3% of the population) and 1036 deaths (4.1% of cases), as of 3 minutes ago. 190000 tests were performed (13.2% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.4% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 7.9% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Switzerland for time series data. | 03:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 01:50 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Kremlin warns of huge influx of Moscow patients as coronavirus toll climbs - Reuters → https://is.gd/PtGIpo | 03:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:59 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: UK pledges 200 million pounds in aid to stop a second wave of outbreak → https://is.gd/tqEU7V | 04:03 |
| bob_guest | Hello room. | 04:12 |
| ynhof[m] | Bob. | 04:16 |
| ynhof[m] | Hello Bob. | 04:16 |
| ynhof[m] | How are you? | 04:16 |
| bob_guest | OK, ty. I'm new, green, to IRC | 04:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 02:00 UTC: worldnews: New Zealand records another record drop in new Covid-19 cases → https://is.gd/cA94JQ | 04:17 |
| Raf[m] | %data Massachusetts | 04:22 |
| Brainstorm | Raf[m]: In Massachusetts, United States, there are 22860 cases (0.3% of the population) and 686 deaths (3.0% of cases). 108776 tests were performed (21.0% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 13.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20States for time series data. | 04:22 |
| Telvana | %data ohio | 04:26 |
| Brainstorm | Telvana: In Ohio, United States, there are 6250 cases (0.1% of the population) and 247 deaths (4.0% of cases). 60471 tests were performed (10.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20States for time series data. | 04:26 |
| PiCar | hi ubLIX | 04:28 |
| ubLIX | hi PiCar | 04:30 |
| PiCar | https://newatlas.com/deals/sunfounder-picar-kit/ | 04:30 |
| stinkpot | nice PiCar | 04:31 |
| stinkpot | very cool kit | 04:31 |
| PiCar | im using this to go out while staying at home | 04:31 |
| LjL | PiCar, urm, are you advertising your product? | 04:33 |
| PiCar | err what? | 04:33 |
| LjL | PiCar, just your nick is picar and you're linking to something called picar | 04:34 |
| PiCar | no im not advertising my product | 04:35 |
| PiCar | why? | 04:35 |
| LjL | well... it seemed that way for the reason i mentioned | 04:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:37 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: UK pledges 200 million pounds in aid to stop a second wave of outbreak → https://is.gd/tqEU7V | 04:41 |
| Spec | LjL: lol | 04:50 |
| PiCar | mobile apps are going to save us all | 04:54 |
| Jigsy | %cases world | 04:57 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In all areas, worldwide, there are 1.8 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 108889 deaths (6.1% of cases). 13.8 million tests were performed (13.0% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 04:57 |
| PiCar | were to get tests? | 04:58 |
| Walkman | you should all buy https://stereo2go.com/forums/threads/small-cheap-walkman-for-daily-playing-with-helpful-features.5253/page-2#post-40442 to save you from lockdown boredom | 04:59 |
| Walkman | but only if you buy them from auctions where i'm not also trying to buy them, thank you very much | 04:59 |
| stinkpot | hahaha walkman cool name dude! | 05:00 |
| PiCar | :P | 05:01 |
| dunnp | is this 1980? | 05:02 |
| ynhof[m] | I hope you are not self advertising walkman /s | 05:02 |
| ynhof[m] | Also, stinkpot reminds me to go outside. I smell bad. | 05:04 |
| Walkman | ynhof[m], that was kind of the joke | 05:04 |
| Walkman | dunnp, if only | 05:04 |
| yuriwho | evening gents & ladies | 05:04 |
| Walkman | dunnp, but also one of them is from 1986 and the other 1997 | 05:04 |
| stinkpot | i'm glad ljl still has a sense of humour after all what's happened | 05:04 |
| PiCar | ladies 1st | 05:04 |
| yuriwho | any significant developments today? I’ve been endtimes prepping by defensible retreat | 05:07 |
| yuriwho | my | 05:07 |
| Walkman | yuriwho, not that i know of... but you might have missed yesterday's uuuh... i don't remember what so it was probably not that big | 05:07 |
| ynhof[m] | 2k deaths and communism were the main points discussed if I recall | 05:08 |
| Walkman | yuriwho, oh, the german study where they found 14% in a hard-hit town were positive to antibodies, but it's already being criticized | 05:08 |
| yuriwho | hmm, was it a preprint? | 05:08 |
| yuriwho | link? | 05:09 |
| Walkman | yuriwho, it was... i actually understood the 14% thing from an article describing it, the study was greek to me, but i have both, sec | 05:09 |
| yuriwho | I’m very interested in the serology data | 05:09 |
| Walkman | yuriwho, https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/09/999015/blood-tests-show-15-of-people-are-now-immune-to-covid-19-in-one-town-in-germany/ and more than a study the article just calls it a "brief report" and it makes sense because it is, well, brief. https://www.land.nrw/sites/default/files/asset/document/zwischenergebnis_covid19_case_study_gangelt_0.pdf also in german | 05:10 |
| yuriwho | ty | 05:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:58 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update live: Victoria extends state of emergency as travellers fly in from cruise nightmare – latest news → https://is.gd/33VMQw | 05:16 |
| yuriwho | LjL: this drug is worth following: https://www.genengnews.com/news/clinical-trial-evaluating-oral-drug-against-coronavirus-expected-to-start-later-this-spring/ | 05:27 |
| yuriwho | %t | 05:27 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: From www.genengnews.com: Clinical Trial Evaluating Oral Drug against Coronavirus Expected to Start Later This Spring | 05:27 |
| yuriwho | it bypasses the editing function of the RNA-dependent RNA polymerase | 05:28 |
| yuriwho | thats what caused all the other antiviral nucleoside analogs to fail | 05:29 |
| LjL | yuriwho, "In addition to ease of treatment, this offers a potential advantage for treating patients who are less unwell, or potentially for prophylaxis, for example, in a nursing home where many people have been exposed but are not yet sick." ← the clock is ticking there because nursing homes are basically emptying one by one ;( | 05:29 |
| yuriwho | https://jvi.asm.org/content/93/24/e01348-19/article-info | 05:30 |
| yuriwho | %t | 05:30 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: From jvi.asm.org: Small-Molecule Antiviral β-d-N4-Hydroxycytidine Inhibits a Proofreading-Intact Coronavirus with a High Genetic Barrier to Resistance | Journal of Virology | 05:31 |
| LjL | yuriwho, well i don't understand most of this but common-sensically antivirals are the things we should be counting on. a vaccine will come when we've either let a ton of people die already, or we've had a two-year lockdown that ruins the economy and makes people crazy. the alternative, without a very effective antiviral, is continuing on-and-off lockdowns, which i doubt will be effective because i doubt most people will understand the on-and-off is not a | 05:33 |
| LjL | whim | 05:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:24 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: India reports 909 new cases as states agree to extend lockdown: India's health ministry said as of 8 a.m. local time on April 12, there were at least 8,356 total cases in the country, including 273 deaths. → https://is.gd/tqEU7V | 05:33 |
| yuriwho | LjL: there is a big difference between direct antivirals targeting the virus and antivirals that target essential human proteins in the viral infection/replication/emergence process. That drug directly targets the viral polymerase, all the others except remdesivir targeting that enzyme have failed completely | 05:37 |
| yuriwho | another drug to watch closely is Nafamostat the TMPRSS2 protease inhibitor (it is in clinical trials right now) which is a human protein.... human proteins don’t mutate rapidly, the viral proteins do | 05:38 |
| LjL | yuriwho, the only antiviral i have direct experience with is acyclovir. that one is a bit magical to me. doctors seem concerned when i say i take it somewhat frequently, but from what i can see the side effect profile is... nearly not existent? and i've known people who've just taken it for decades without much of an issue. i don't take it like that, but i take it every time i'm not feeling "very well", and it has changed my cold sore occurrences from like | 05:40 |
| LjL | every two weeks, to every several months, and even when i do get them, it's often nothing compared to what it used to be, goes away in a day or two and doesn't hurt | 05:40 |
| LjL | acyclovir according to wikipedia becomes something that the virus turns into something else that kills viral replication | 05:40 |
| LjL | i believe that's the medical phrasing | 05:40 |
| LjL | ubLIX[m], omg | 05:40 |
| yuriwho | it all depends on the dose you are taking and your own peculiar metabolism/clearance of the drug.... this can differ in individuals | 05:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:45 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update live: Victoria extends state of emergency as travellers fly in from cruise nightmare – latest news → https://is.gd/33VMQw | 06:07 |
| Zovirax | Zovirax is used to treat infections caused by herpes viruses, such as genital herpes, cold sores, shingles, and chicken pox. | 06:32 |
| Zovirax | Tamiflu sounds promising | 06:37 |
| Zovirax | a friend of mine used Zovirax to treat genital herpes | 06:38 |
| WW[m] | good medicines don't need spam | 06:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:20 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Julian Assange at risk from virus, says partner as she pleads for release: Stella Moris says Wikileaks founder should be freed fromBelmarsh prison; Christians adapt to Easter without ceremonies; Italy, India, Saudi Arabia, Puerto Rico extend lockdown → https://is.gd/5DqUwq | 06:42 |
| Zovirax | what about bad/inappropriate medicines ? | 06:42 |
| WW[m] | so I conclude that those medications that need spammers are complete bullshit | 06:43 |
| Zovirax | ask LjL about it | 06:44 |
| WW[m] | about my opinion? | 06:44 |
| Zovirax | WolkWagon? | 06:46 |
| WW[m] | what are you talking about? | 06:47 |
| ynhof[m] | I keep procrastinating buying groceries online and will end up dying of malnutrition | 06:50 |
| WW[m] | the virus won't survive delivery | 06:53 |
| sneep | I went to a 24/7 place at 1 am yesterday evening, very few other customers | 06:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:46 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: India reports 909 new cases as states agree to extend lockdown: India's health ministry said as of 8 a.m. local time on April 12, there were at least 8,356 total cases in the country, including 273 deaths. → https://is.gd/tqEU7V | 06:59 |
| Zovirax | #virus is a vi channel for russian speaking devs | 07:02 |
| WW[m] | in addition food processing and personal hygiene.. I think you can even afford a pancetta | 07:04 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Bill Gates says coronavirus will forever alter work, but face-to-face school is ‘totally irreplaceable’ (10187 votes) | https://redd.it/fzlc2u | 07:05 |
| Zovirax | 5G tiggered covid | 07:09 |
| ecrockz123 | @Zovirax How?? | 07:10 |
| tinwhiskers | %cases england | 07:11 |
| Brainstorm | tinwhiskers: In England, United Kingdom, there are 62658 cases (0.1% of the population) and 8937 deaths (14.3% of cases). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=England for time series data. | 07:11 |
| Zovirax | 5G triggered covid thats common knowledge | 07:11 |
| Zovirax | https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/how-a-virus-conspiracy-theory-fueled-arson-and-harassment-in-britain/ar-BB12rCms | 07:11 |
| tinwhiskers | Zovirax: we don't do the conspiracy nutjob thing here, sorry. | 07:11 |
| G0atB0yP3rs0n | seeing as Switzerland have a load more 5G than the UK you would have thought thewre would be higher rates there, no? | 07:12 |
| Zovirax | :) | 07:12 |
| ubLIX | we REALLY don't do the conspiracy nut job thing here | 07:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:09 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update live: Victoria extends state of emergency as travellers fly in from cruise nightmare – latest news → https://is.gd/33VMQw | 07:16 |
| ynhof[m] | <Brainstorm "New from The Guardian at 05:09 U"> https://rochdaleherald.co.uk/2020/04/10/5g-spreads-bullshit-10-times-faster-than-4g-say-experts/?PageSpeed=noscript | 07:16 |
| sneep | Was that guy serious? | 07:21 |
| ubLIX | somewhere been noise and probably not, i guess | 07:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:25 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Julian Assange at risk from virus, says partner as she pleads for release: Stella Moris says Wikileaks founder should be freed fromBelmarsh prison; Christians adapt to Easter without ceremonies; Italy, India, Saudi Arabia, Puerto Rico extend lockdown → https://is.gd/5DqUwq | 07:33 |
| echobbyist[m] | Hi | 07:40 |
| stevev916[m] | what y'all think of balsarano? | 07:41 |
| stevev916[m] | i mean jair bolsonaro | 07:43 |
| tinwhiskers | I think if he came in here anonymously he would be quieted within a few minutes for being an obvious moron. | 07:45 |
| ecrockz123 | !covid usa | 07:47 |
| CoronaBot | USA: Global rank: #1, cases: 533,088 (+209), fatalities: 20,580 (+3), active cases: 482,006, total recovered: 30,502, in a serious condition: 11,471. Mortality: 3.86%, case fatality rate: -, cases/1M: 1611.0, deaths/1M: 62.0. Case rate: 30,003/24h, death rate: 1,830/24h. Tests: 2,693,758, tests/1M: 8,138. | 07:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:39 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update live: Victoria extends state of emergency as travellers fly in from cruise nightmare – latest news → https://is.gd/33VMQw | 07:50 |
| echobbyist[m] | /msg @appservice-irc:matrix.org | 08:17 |
| stevev916[m] | Bolsonaro (president of Brazil) is rejecting calls for govt lockdowns, and taunts his critics by shaking hands in public. Brazil topped 1000 deaths, w/ over 19k cases. | 08:32 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Charlotte woman hadn’t left her house in 3 weeks but tested positive for COVID-19. Merely Touched package delivered by someone who also tested positive. (10187 votes) | https://redd.it/fznn9n | 08:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:26 UTC: Coronavirus latest: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak → https://is.gd/GMhPUB | 08:42 |
| echobbyist[m] | Why matrix is kicking out automatically | 08:51 |
| echobbyist[m] | You were kicked from ##electronics by @appservice-irc:matrix.org | 08:52 |
| ynhof[m] | Have you connected (and chatted) in that channel before using matrix, or is it your first time trying? | 08:56 |
| echobbyist[m] | first time | 08:56 |
| echobbyist[m] | I can join to some channels | 08:56 |
| ynhof[m] | Some IRC channels are explicit in the type of clients they allow i.e i know of some freenode channels that ban users with matrix clients | 08:57 |
| ynhof[m] | Some are tolerant of lurkers | 08:57 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | <LjL "yuriwho, the only antiviral i ha"> do you take it internal? injection? or just against tropical herpes? | 08:58 |
| ynhof[m] | So to see that channel you'd probably only see it with an IRC client echobbyist (@echobbyist:matrix.org) | 08:59 |
| yuriwho | I’m not sure. It’s probably gonna be IV for the 1st trial | 08:59 |
| tinwhiskers | weimarnetzbot[m]: if you're referring to LJL's use of acyclovir, he's likely in bed now, but given he said he "takes" it I would guess he means orally, not topically. | 09:02 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | i wasnt aware that one can buy it for internal use... but i guess, he is from the US or so | 09:03 |
| Thespen | @search baktu | 09:03 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, it can be oral or topical | 09:05 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | well, for the case of external herpes... I'am using a self made medicine made from tansy (tanacetum vulgare), for external application... this stuff is fancy, it works even better than aciclovir | 09:06 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/ptr.3382 | 09:09 |
| Blankspace_ | I think summer heat will kill virus? | 09:18 |
| Blankspace_ | We're soon into hot blistering summer | 09:18 |
| Blankspace_ | Phase this time of the year | 09:18 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | i guess not so effectively as we hope | 09:18 |
| ynhof[m] | Eh, will intensify asymptomatic shedding maybe (my opinion) | 09:18 |
| Blankspace_ | No becoz here temp reach above 40 | 09:19 |
| Blankspace_ | Celcius | 09:19 |
| Blankspace_ | I don't think flu can sustain that much heat | 09:19 |
| Blankspace_ | Flu or any virus | 09:19 |
| ynhof[m] | Hmm, that is interesting. Like can the RNA break down in heat | 09:20 |
| Blankspace_ | I am waiting for the summer | 09:21 |
| Blankspace_ | Hot hot summer becoz I like summer | 09:21 |
| tinwhiskers | No, the summer heat is unlikely to have much effect. Seasonal flu is affected by seasons because the R0 is near one so the change due to season is sufficient to stop transfer. That is not the case with this virus because the R0 is too high | 09:21 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | I hate the lack of rain in summer -_- | 09:21 |
| tinwhiskers | Planning for summer to save you is foolish | 09:22 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | virus won't die instantly at 40°C... it would still spread in sauna | 09:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 07:17 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Effetto coronavirus sui conti pubblici e sui redditi → https://is.gd/OEcCW1 | 09:23 |
| ynhof[m] | Wishfully, I would like to think the air vortices in summer air would direct the infected streams of air in a more effective manner. Maybe carrying contaminated air away easier. | 09:23 |
| ynhof[m] | Often I notice the air layers on sumer days are drawn away from surfaces | 09:24 |
| tinwhiskers | So to give you an example (but these are made up numbers). The summer might change the R0 for flu from 1.2 to 0.9, stopping transmission, but changing this virus from 4 to 3.5 won't stop transmission. | 09:24 |
| Blankspace_ | I just hope for 48 degree summer for one weak | 09:24 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | yeah, but that could even spread the virus more | 09:24 |
| Blankspace_ | Well one week is always like that during summer | 09:25 |
| humpelstilzchen[ | 48 degree? Wow, that would top any record here | 09:25 |
| tinwhiskers | Summer does have an effect on spread, virus survival and human behaviour that all work toward making the flu less effective during summer but that won't be enough to help with this virus | 09:25 |
| Blankspace_ | Yea in 48 degree you get blisters on your skin if you don't have air conditioning | 09:26 |
| Blankspace_ | But if it anyways helps in killing the virus | 09:26 |
| ynhof[m] | What will you enjoy doing when the heat arrives | 09:27 |
| ynhof[m] | True | 09:27 |
| Blankspace_ | I will enjoy having ice-cream | 09:27 |
| Blankspace_ | It tastes the best during summer | 09:28 |
| tinwhiskers | Blankspace_: how's things in your area of India going? | 09:28 |
| tinwhiskers | Are you still in the city or did you head home? | 09:28 |
| Blankspace_ | I am still stuck here I am thinking of getting a horse to reach my home since all train and plane services are out of service | 09:29 |
| tinwhiskers | Heh. I'm thinking of getting a yacht for the same reason | 09:30 |
| Blankspace_ | And by walk it'll take me hundred days if I walk 20 km per day | 09:30 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah, that seems very risky | 09:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 07:20 UTC: Coronavirus: Boris Johnson 'owes his life to NHS staff': The PM thanks those who treated him for coronavirus as the public is reminded to stay at home. → https://is.gd/5R5qd7 | 09:30 |
| Blankspace_ | And if I bicycle it'll take me 40 days | 09:31 |
| tinwhiskers | How would you get food along the way? | 09:31 |
| Blankspace_ | And how would I take all my belongings on my bicycle | 09:31 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah | 09:32 |
| tinwhiskers | You need to feed a horse as well though | 09:32 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | he can't eat a bicycle | 09:32 |
| Blankspace_ | Horse can feed on grass? | 09:32 |
| tinwhiskers | :-) | 09:32 |
| tinwhiskers | Blankspace_: is there enough grass where you are going for that? | 09:33 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | indica grass, heh | 09:33 |
| Blankspace_ | It's like in the past mughals and Britishers used horse to attack on india | 09:33 |
| Blankspace_ | Since we didn't has train and plane services back then | 09:33 |
| tinwhiskers | Mmm | 09:34 |
| Blankspace_ | So horse was a means of transportation I believe | 09:34 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah | 09:34 |
| tinwhiskers | Even with a horse it will take weeks. Would you be able to buy food along the route? | 09:35 |
| tinwhiskers | Or would you plan to pack all your food? | 09:37 |
| Blankspace_ | Yea so that's how Iranians brought biryani to india | 09:37 |
| Blankspace_ | Since it was easy to cook. | 09:37 |
| Blankspace_ | Lol | 09:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes... | 09:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:31 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus update live: Tasmania to close hotspot hospitals and shut down retail trading in north-west – latest news → https://is.gd/33VMQw | 09:38 |
| tinwhiskers | Nevermind then :-p | 09:38 |
| Blankspace_ | I haven't really thought about it. I don't have a horse. If need arises someone will help hopefully along the way | 09:38 |
| Blankspace_ | I think bicycle is a good idea but I think I'll get lost | 09:38 |
| tinwhiskers | Get a portable solar panel and keep your phone charged | 09:39 |
| Blankspace_ | Shops are closed | 09:39 |
| Blankspace_ | :/ | 09:39 |
| tinwhiskers | Ah. Frankly I think it's a very risky thing to do. Given the situation I think you'd be better sheltering *in place* | 09:40 |
| Blankspace_ | Yes but I don't know how long is this going to continue | 09:41 |
| Blankspace_ | They're estimating around two years | 09:41 |
| Blankspace_ | They'll remove lockdown and upon resurgence again impose it | 09:41 |
| Blankspace_ | What's going on I mean | 09:42 |
| Blankspace_ | These things I read on media outlets | 09:42 |
| Blankspace_ | Do I not go home f for two years | 09:42 |
| Blankspace_ | I think I am going to go bicycle. It would be fun adventure except that police will put me in jail | 09:43 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes, so it won't be two years solid. There will be breaks in the lockdown. You could take that opportunity when buses start again to go home rather than risk it now. | 09:45 |
| tinwhiskers | Err. My internet is dropping out a lot tonight | 09:45 |
| Blankspace_ | I just hope summer breaks the chain | 09:46 |
| stinkpot | where r u located Blankspace_ ? | 09:47 |
| stinkpot | are you in a fully locked down area? | 09:47 |
| ynhof[m] | Is it wifi. Is your wifi getting jacked? | 09:47 |
| ynhof[m] | Are they on to you? | 09:47 |
| ynhof[m] | tinwhiskers | 09:47 |
| Blankspace_ | Not fully | 09:47 |
| tinwhiskers | Blankspace_: it won't | 09:47 |
| tinwhiskers | ynhof[m]: nah this cell tower on the nearby island goes berko about once a week then I think someone resets it and my internet starts working again | 09:48 |
| tinwhiskers | Right now it drops out (no signal) for about 30 seconds every couple of minutes | 09:49 |
| Blankspace_ | If internet goes down we're going to get mad in our home. | 09:49 |
| Blankspace_ | I certainly will. | 09:49 |
| tinwhiskers | So true | 09:50 |
| explore | nah | 09:50 |
| explore | you'll get a puppy, a couple of kittens, five hens for the backyard | 09:51 |
| explore | you'll grow basil and trade baby vietnamese hot pepper plants | 09:51 |
| tinwhiskers | Heh | 09:51 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1375 cases (now 1784468) — Russia: +1093 cases (now 14677) — Israel: +135 cases (now 10878) | 09:51 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | an a garden | 09:51 |
| explore | and you'll finally get around to watching all those award winning foreign films | 09:51 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | *d | 09:51 |
| explore | and read a few good books | 09:51 |
| explore | all we ever use the internet for is counter strike and chaturbate.com, we'll survive | 09:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:43 UTC: Coronavirus UK live news: Three nurses add to rising number of NHS staff deaths: Coronavirus: latest global updates Coronavirus latest: at a glance Boris Johnson praises NHS - ‘I owe them my life’ See all our coronavirus coverage 8.43am BST → https://is.gd/q22gRw | 09:52 |
| Blankspace_ | I use for chatting | 09:52 |
| explore | well you can chat with hens, they are good listeners, provided you bride them with nomnomnoms | 09:52 |
| explore | *bribe | 09:53 |
| Blankspace_ | Yes I used to chat with trees when I didn't had internet | 09:53 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | hehe | 09:53 |
| ynhof[m] | ^^^^I have spent some time considering your display image | 09:54 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | mine? | 09:54 |
| ynhof[m] | Ja | 09:54 |
| ynhof[m] | I dont get it but I 'sort of' get it, it is a cool picture | 09:55 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | based on a animated tv series | 09:56 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | Rick & Morty | 09:57 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | *n | 09:57 |
| ynhof[m] | Good lord my room smells so awful | 10:00 |
| Blankspace_ | Spray perfume | 10:01 |
| Blankspace_ | Room freshner | 10:01 |
| ynhof[m] | There should be an extractor fan above my head that vents out the window | 10:01 |
| Blankspace_ | You don't have window? | 10:01 |
| ynhof[m] | Its open, but my breath is too potent | 10:02 |
| Blankspace_ | Potent? | 10:02 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | munster cheese? | 10:02 |
| Blankspace_ | Ok then you can think of cleaning your room | 10:02 |
| ynhof[m] | Vacuum 2x a week its cleab | 10:03 |
| ynhof[m] | Clean | 10:03 |
| Blankspace_ | Then why does it smell | 10:03 |
| ynhof[m] | My breath | 10:03 |
| Blankspace_ | Then brush your teeth | 10:04 |
| ynhof[m] | Probably got an infection to get fixed | 10:04 |
| ynhof[m] | Lol | 10:04 |
| Blankspace_ | I don't really like people with bad breath | 10:05 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | the purple listerine will do the trick | 10:05 |
| ynhof[m] | I think the infection is lungs / phraynx. Will arrange hospital / doctor visit amidst covid | 10:06 |
| ynhof[m] | Thanks guys sorry to swallow the char, please letme got back ro lurking silently | 10:06 |
| Blankspace_ | Visiting a doctor is not safe during this time | 10:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1242 cases (now 1785710) — Russia: +1093 cases (now 15770) — Ukraine: +133 cases (now 2644) | 10:06 |
| ynhof[m] | What if I have covid and the smell is pneumonia | 10:07 |
| Blankspace_ | It has smell? | 10:07 |
| Blankspace_ | I heard olfactory malfunctions | 10:07 |
| ynhof[m] | Your lungs can fill with mucous/dead lung cells. that might be the smell. | 10:09 |
| ynhof[m] | Anyway lets not gross you out | 10:09 |
| Blankspace_ | What do you think when and how LL this pandemic end | 10:11 |
| Blankspace_ | Well do you also have other symptoms | 10:11 |
| Blankspace_ | I hope you're not covid positive | 10:12 |
| Blankspace_ | Becoz it's a new disease someone has spread. | 10:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:55 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Britain pledges £200m to WHO as lockdowns tighten worldwide: Partner says Wikileaks founder should be freed from UK prison; Christians adapt to Easter without ceremonies; Italy, India, Saudi Arabia, Puerto Rico extend lockdown → https://is.gd/5DqUwq | 10:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:21 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Russia sees biggest daily jump with more than 2,000 new cases: Russia reported its biggest daily jump in new coronaviruses cases so far on Sunday at 2,186, bringing the country's total confirmed cases to 15,770. → https://is.gd/tqEU7V | 10:28 |
| truthr | can white cells kill again and again or just one cell then they die? | 10:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 08:30 UTC: nCoV: Structure of the RNA-dependent RNA polymerase from COVID-19 virus | 10APR20 → https://is.gd/EfRvzq | 10:35 |
| JoeLlama | death rate in the US is 3.9% | 10:40 |
| JoeLlama | eep | 10:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:30 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Christians adapt to Easter without ceremonies as lockdowns tighten worldwide → https://is.gd/5DqUwq | 10:42 |
| JoeLlama | death rate on the planet is 6.1% | 10:42 |
| JoeLlama | eep | 10:42 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | Europa 9%:.. | 10:43 |
| weimarnetzbot[m] | * Europe 9%:.. | 10:44 |
| tinwhiskers | That probably reflects the number of people with mild or no symptoms who are not recorded. The death rate is more likely 1-2% (maybe even a little below 1%) | 10:46 |
| _abc_ | reading https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8210951/Beijing-authorities-hushed-findings-Chinese-scientist.html | 10:46 |
| _abc_ | -- if verified, it means China knew that they have a new SARS problem on January 2nd or so and suppressed it. This is unspeakably bad if true. | 10:47 |
| _abc_ | Can anyone say if that info is realistic? They suppressed it twice, in less than 2 weeks. | 10:47 |
| _abc_ | tinwhiskers: I saw 0.5% if counting the assumed asymptomatics too. | 10:47 |
| JoeLlama | moo _abc_ | 10:48 |
| _abc_ | Hi JoeLlama | 10:48 |
| JoeLlama | death rate in the US is 3.9% | 10:48 |
| JoeLlama | death rate on the planet is 6.1% | 10:48 |
| _abc_ | JoeLlama: it only counts symptomatic. | 10:48 |
| _abc_ | +s | 10:48 |
| JoeLlama | hrm? | 10:49 |
| _abc_ | JoeLlama: it is said that asymptomatics are 2x to 3x the count of symptomatics. | 10:49 |
| JoeLlama | wow | 10:49 |
| JoeLlama | I got cracker dust in my keyboard :( | 10:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 08:42 UTC: nCoV: Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) | How to prepare... | What to do... | 11APR20 → https://is.gd/zNQfWm | 10:49 |
| JoeLlama | I wonder if I am asymtomatici but I don't thunk so | 10:50 |
| _abc_ | https://xkcd.com/237/ JoeLlama | 10:50 |
| JoeLlama | had a somehat persistent cough but that is gone and no one around me seems tos have it | 10:50 |
| _abc_ | If you are young, well fed and otherwise healthy you have no reason to believe you are anything other than asymptomatic imo. | 10:50 |
| JoeLlama | well one person around me doesn't | 10:50 |
| JoeLlama | I am sheltered in place | 10:51 |
| _abc_ | Well fed means vitamins too not the usual nerd food. | 10:51 |
| JoeLlama | I am 61 eep | 10:51 |
| _abc_ | JoeLlama: I'm about 10 years younger than you. Not a big difference in the current picture. | 10:51 |
| JoeLlama | yeah ok | 10:53 |
| JoeLlama | I wanna be 50 again :) | 10:53 |
| \n3p\ | CDC Paper: Coronavirus Can Travel 4 Meters, and on Shoes https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0885_article | 16:53 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1546 cases (now 1799777), +189 deaths (now 110282) — United Kingdom: +1546 cases (now 80537), +189 deaths (now 10064) — Alabama, US: +65 cases (now 3327) | 16:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 14:55 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Regno Unito → https://is.gd/t0BIjC | 16:55 |
| SilverZ | %data Lebanon | 17:20 |
| Brainstorm | SilverZ: In all areas, Lebanon, there are 625 cases (0.0% of the population) and 20 deaths (3.2% of cases). 14554 tests were performed (4.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lebanon for time series data. | 17:20 |
| _abc_ | So basically a hot box kept at 60 degC with a dwell time of 30 mins should take care of the virus mostly? Sounds like a little IR heat lamp as used in the food industry to keep food warm. Or an oven, | 17:31 |
| _abc_ | Does anyone know for how long West Nile antibodies can be found in a blood test? Say 2-3 years? | 17:32 |
| mefistofeles | _abc_: only a small portion of the people , apparently | 17:35 |
| mefistofeles | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4574583/ | 17:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:29 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: May 1 too soon to reopen, says a Johns Hopkins director, UK PM Johnson discharged → https://is.gd/1gWrcT | 17:36 |
| Urchin | %data croatia | 17:36 |
| Brainstorm | Urchin: In all areas, Croatia, there are 1600 cases (0.0% of the population) and 23 deaths (1.4% of cases). 16381 tests were performed (9.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.5% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 5.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Croatia for time series data. | 17:36 |
| _abc_ | https://www.cdc.gov/westnile/healthcareproviders/healthCareProviders-Diagnostic.html this suggests IgG long term antibodies will be present for years | 17:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2637 cases (now 1802422), +238 deaths (now 110522) — United Kingdom: +1322 cases (now 81859), +184 deaths (now 10248) — Ontario, Canada: +401 cases (now 7049) | 17:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1985 cases (now 1804407), +400 deaths (now 110922) — United Kingdom: +1322 cases (now 83181), +184 deaths (now 10432) — US: +419 cases (now 533611), +204 deaths (now 20828) | 17:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 15:42 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: 3D model of a person coughing in a grocery store and spreading virus → https://is.gd/R49wkv | 17:53 |
| PMM[m] | Hi | 17:53 |
| PMM[m] | International Emergency Communication. A channel for emergency communication, alarms and important messages only. Civil Defense. #EmCom:matrix.org | 17:53 |
| l0ndoner | sup peeps o/ | 17:56 |
| LjL | PMM[m], sometimes it's not considered great to join a channel and just advertise another channel | 17:56 |
| LjL | for that matter, i have #alerts:matrix.org = ##alerts on freenode, which is... kind of that, too. | 17:56 |
| PMM[m] | You hawe right,LjL: Sorry :) | 17:57 |
| l0ndoner | [m] at end of $nick = Matrix? | 17:58 |
| MacGeek | 431 deaths in italy today | 18:02 |
| AimHere | It's Sunday. The death counters take the day off | 18:02 |
| AimHere | Though it's still likely to be a falling death count in Italy anyways | 18:02 |
| l0ndoner | yea UK reported 700 odd deaths today but I'm sure the figures are wrong | 18:03 |
| LjL | --- Italy press conference | 18:05 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Thanks to Luca Righeldi for being with me today | 18:05 |
| LjL | Total current positive: 102253, +1984 since yesterday. | 18:06 |
| LjL | ICUs are going down, 3343, -38, and hospitalized are 27847, -297. | 18:06 |
| LjL | 710063 (69%) are self-isolating. | 18:06 |
| LjL | +431 deaths. | 18:07 |
| LjL | 34211 recoveries, +1677. | 18:07 |
| LjL | the Provine of Bozen calculated the recoveries again, and realized there is 110 fewer people. | 18:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +2045 cases (now 1806452), +212 deaths (now 111134) — United Kingdom: +1098 cases (now 84279), +180 deaths (now 10612) — US: +521 cases (now 534132) | 18:07 |
| LjL | +4092 new positives, for a total of 156362 cases, which includes both positives, and deaths+recoveries. | 18:07 |
| LjL | We have 19220 volunteers today, the highest recorded. | 18:08 |
| PMM[m] | Poland. Coronavirus Cases: 6674 Deaths: 232 Recovered: 439 | 18:09 |
| LjL | Last thing I wanted to say is that I signed an ordnance for assisting and monitoring migrants rescued at sea. This was necessary after the Ministers declared our ports as "not safe", so we talked to the Ministry of Interior and we have a commissioner handling this, with the additional help of the Red Cross. This commissioner will find ships or land structures to gather the migrants. | 18:09 |
| LjL | (Prof. Righeldi) I'll be brief, since the data are fortunately clear. I would like to caution about interpreting the number of positives: that is highly dependent on the number of tests made. We know that we having more and more testing, which is obviously useful for epidemiology, but it also makes the number of new positives less understandable. | 18:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:09 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: PCM-DPC dati orniti dal Ministero della Salute AGGIORNAMENTO 12/04/2020 ORE 17.00 POSITIVI AL nCoV nel Totale | DIMESSI/ CASI TOTAL Ricoverati | Terapia | Isolamento | oe ro1® ae | guanimi | PECEDUTH] casiTorAul | CAS! TOTAL | TaMPoN Jeon sintomi| intensiva | domictae |e precedente) Lombardia | [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/UYRqah | 18:10 |
| LjL | The data is comforting but not so clear. There are, however, three other data points that are more reliable: hospitalizations, which have been going down now for a full week, and today we've had the highest reduction, with -297. The other data is on ICU, which is critical since ICU beds are very limited in number and have the highest mortality. Today is the 9th day with ICU admissions going down. This is now a very reliable trend. | 18:12 |
| LjL | It means we've been able to reduce the pressure on the critical part of our healthcare system thanks to our behaviors. | 18:12 |
| LjL | Third thing, which is sad, and even sadder during these holidays... today we've had the least deaths since a long time. It is still a very high number, sadly, but we should look at trends, and together with the other data points I highlighted, it really shows the restrictive measures are having an impact. | 18:13 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Thanks, questions now. | 18:13 |
| LjL | Q: I'd like some clarification on supporting the migrants, also by the Civil Protection. | 18:13 |
| LjL | A: We must guarantee quarantine and isolation for the migrants coming ashore. This is why structures will be created on land, but ships will also be employed. After quarantine is over, migrants will go through the ordinary processes. | 18:14 |
| LjL | Q: We have some requests from the people who are on land handling the migrants, and they request PPEs and other important equipment. | 18:15 |
| LjL | A: Absolutely, there will be personnel assisting migrants and the Red Cross is a structure that does have personnel and the rules on PPEs will be respected. | 18:15 |
| LjL | Q: A question for Richeldi: some newspapers mentioned an opinion by an anatomopathologist, [...] can we believe this? | 18:16 |
| LjL | A: This news comes from the fact there have been the first autopsies. The findings are common in many pneumonias. We don't know yet if coagulation phenomena are more common with this virus. I encourage everyone to visit AIFA's site, where they analyze the data that have emerges and recommends and encourages submitting studies on this. Let's trust the scientific method. Anti-coagulants could be used, their usefulness is plausible, but it requires evidence. | 18:18 |
| LjL | Q: How "real" are the numbers on deaths? Do they include people who have died but never got tested, like the gynecologist who died a few days ago, or this man who was tested positive but sent home to self-isolate, then he was found dead, but the coroner wrote "cardiac arrest" as the cause of death? | 18:19 |
| LjL | A: (Borrelli) I think I know something more than the Professor here so I will answer. The data are based on people who were tested positive. If they die, they will be counted as deaths. | 18:19 |
| LjL | Q: So people who died while having COVID symptoms but weren't tested do not get into this data? | 18:19 |
| LjL | A: People who are not clinically considered positive are not counted among the deaths. It would be hard to include them without knowing whether or not they are positive. | 18:20 |
| LjL | Q: About the task force, can you clarify the task force's true goals? We know it's generally about "reopening" the country, economically and socially? Also about nursing homes, they seem to "escape" any check, so there are some legal actions already starting. What is the problem with nursing home in terms of counting cases and deaths, and more importantly, what can we do about them? Initially, the advice was NOT to wear masks, to avoid scaring the | 18:21 |
| LjL | patients. I hope courts will clarify this aspects. | 18:21 |
| LjL | A: There was the first task force meeting yesterday. Commissioner Arcuri as well as I are part of that task force. Its goal is to figure out how to start "phase 2", with an ample vision on restarting economic and social activities. We are working and at some point we'll bring a choice of proposals that will be evaluated by the Council of Ministers. | 18:22 |
| LjL | A: (Prof.) About nursing homes, I won't get into the legal issues, which are not my realm... we knew from the start they would have been hotspots for the virus, and even more so, mortality rate. People who are there require assistane by definition, they are vulnerable by definition, not just to the coronavirus but to a range of infection. This is why the ISS monitored them from the start, and published two versions of a document that's available to the | 18:24 |
| LjL | scientific commission for monitoring nursing homes specifically, and have a plan for controlling contagion within that. | 18:24 |
| LjL | Aside from what has already happened, what will happen in the future is important. In Latium, some nursing homes have been declared as "red zones" under quarantine. We have a plan for controlling infection within nursing homes, and nursing homes, together with households, will be among the places most at risk in the near future. | 18:25 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Thank you and have a good evening. | 18:25 |
| LjL | --- end | 18:25 |
| LjL | anyone else think the questions are much more telling than the answers, in general? | 18:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:22 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: May 1 too soon to reopen, says a Johns Hopkins director, UK PM Johnson discharged → https://is.gd/1gWrcT | 18:28 |
| nixonix | any news about antibody studies of population in italy? | 18:28 |
| LjL | My translation of today's Civil Protection press conference in Italy: https://dpaste.org/4ShT | 18:29 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Man rode a bicycle for 130 km with his wife strapped to him with a rope, to get her to a hospital for her Chemotherapy. He 2as unable to find any other means of transportation due to the lockdown preventing all movement in India. (10219 votes) | https://redd.it/fzvco7 | 18:37 |
| ecrockz123 | https://www.linkedin.com/posts/world-economic-forum_covid19-coronavirus-activity-6653969977542090752-m2R4 | 18:40 |
| LjL | nixonix, they did not mention in the press conference just now, sometimes they do | 18:43 |
| LjL | so probably not much news | 18:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 16:38 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: Matt Hancock announces contact tracing app as UK hospital death toll passes 10,000 → https://is.gd/q22gRw | 18:45 |
| LjL | article says the source code will be published | 18:48 |
| LjL | although it's not anonymous, the NHS will get data | 18:48 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for New York, US: +7668 cases (now 188694) — World: +2482 cases (now 1809863), +413 deaths (now 111760) — Italy: +2046 cases (now 154317), +216 deaths (now 19684) | 18:52 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: personal data? | 18:55 |
| mefistofeles | or the usual data from all the other apps? | 18:55 |
| mefistofeles | I really believe all of those are based in the bluetrace from Singapore, but they were just waiting for all the other governments to come up with something to release it to the public | 18:55 |
| mefistofeles | it's much more easy to make people use something when it's believed that it comes from the same country | 18:56 |
| mefistofeles | something like this, specially | 18:56 |
| mefistofeles | and that makes people think that it is somehow "tailor-made" for the specifics of the country, regardless of the actual validity of that | 18:57 |
| mefistofeles | we'll have to wait and see, if the source code is released | 18:57 |
| ubLIX | taking an extreme view: what's the point in vaunting the publishing of source code if you can't build and install the app from that source code? | 18:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:50 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: May 1 too soon to reopen, says a Johns Hopkins director, UK PM Johnson discharged → https://is.gd/1gWrcT | 19:02 |
| ubLIX | still, glad that they are moving towards easing the logistics of contact tracing | 19:02 |
| LjL | merethan, the "usual data" is often personal data... if it has account permissions it'll see who you are from google | 19:02 |
| LjL | ubLIX, i wouldn't call that extreme | 19:02 |
| morbiuslair | :( please covid co away now | 19:02 |
| pwr22 | !compare uk;italy | 19:04 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, look at some oddity with covidly data... it just said "Italy: +2046 cases", which makes it look like it tapered off a LOT today, but the civil protection press conference actually said +4092, which is much closer to what i'd expect. with the old data, it'd *always* match the data from the press conference (aside from the fact they sometimes only gave cases-(recoveries+deaths)) | 19:04 |
| pwr22 | LjL: we almost have you now! | 19:04 |
| LjL | pwr22, congratulations? | 19:04 |
| pwr22 | 😭 | 19:05 |
| morbiuslair | any frontliners here? | 19:05 |
| pwr22 | My sewing kit arrived so I'm cutting up a tshirt and making a mask for very questionable quality | 19:05 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, and if i look at the covidly.com side itself it says +4,694 today for italy, which matches neither | 19:06 |
| pwr22 | Exactly how long it will last before falling apart is anyones guess | 19:06 |
| pwr22 | morbiuslair: my brother is a hospital pharmacist and my dad is a community pharmacist | 19:06 |
| LjL | and +3951 yesterday which also doesn't match the civil protection data (it was more like +4500 or so yesterday) | 19:06 |
| LjL | they may have a different definition of "day" but it does make comparing data quite confusing | 19:07 |
| morbiuslair | I salute all the brave frontiliners around the world. hope thise virus end and we will heal | 19:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +5125 cases (now 1814988), +471 deaths (now 112231) — US: +2495 cases (now 537393), +203 deaths (now 21429) — Italy: +2046 cases (now 156363), +215 deaths (now 19899) | 19:07 |
| LjL | ugh | 19:08 |
| LjL | did they break the italy update into two | 19:08 |
| morbiuslair | is that only today death? | 19:08 |
| LjL | no, depends on the country... | 19:08 |
| LjL | but also i'm confused about the data right now | 19:09 |
| morbiuslair | what mean by +5125 cases, this mean today case? | 19:09 |
| LjL | 2046*2 *is* is the civil protection's 4092... but why break it into two updates | 19:09 |
| LjL | morbiuslair, it means +5125 since the last update | 19:09 |
| LjL | if you want to see today's data, look at the graphs | 19:09 |
| morbiuslair | ic. | 19:09 |
| LjL | %cases | 19:10 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, worldwide, there are 3.6 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 224462 deaths (6.2% of cases). 28.3 million tests were performed (12.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 19:10 |
| LjL | well actually that URL won't work. look at https://offloop.net/covid19/ | 19:10 |
| morbiuslair | me and my family also couldnt go out, 1 month now | 19:10 |
| morbiuslair | we need to saty home | 19:10 |
| morbiuslair | im from philippines | 19:10 |
| LjL | %cases philippines | 19:10 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Philippines, there are 4648 cases (0.0% of the population) and 297 deaths (6.4% of cases). 38640 tests were performed (12.0% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Philippines for time series data. | 19:11 |
| morbiuslair | ;( | 19:11 |
| l0ndoner | LjL: sundays and bank holidays notirious for skewed figures | 19:11 |
| LjL | l0ndoner, the figures given by Italy were fine. it's the way Covidly.com is processing them that isn't | 19:12 |
| spybert | morbiuslair: Are they rationing food in your area? | 19:13 |
| morbiuslair | yes some part, but we didnt receive any | 19:14 |
| morbiuslair | the government is slecting only poor family | 19:14 |
| morbiuslair | the middle class need find a way | 19:14 |
| l0ndoner | middle classes were the ones doing all the hoarding | 19:14 |
| morbiuslair | we are really lucky, as we have a very good leader/president | 19:15 |
| morbiuslair | hes really doing all he can for us | 19:16 |
| spybert | morbiuslair: I guess it is different depending on the area. Bacolod was rationing food or everybody. | 19:16 |
| morbiuslair | spybert: yes i guess, but at least the government is trying its best. we know that they couldnt help each one of us, so we must face this bravely | 19:17 |
| morbiuslair | filipinos is like 110 million pop | 19:17 |
| l0ndoner | you in Mexico? | 19:19 |
| morbiuslair | who? | 19:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:14 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: JHU director warns May 1 too soon to reopen, UK PM Johnson discharged → https://is.gd/1gWrcT | 19:19 |
| spybert | morbiuslair: The geography there of many islands should have been conducive to limiting the spread of the virus. Are any Philippine islands virus free? | 19:19 |
| morbiuslair | spybert: i really dont know about that all I know it start in the capital city then spreads | 19:20 |
| morbiuslair | spybert: maybe there is some fre virus | 19:20 |
| morbiuslair | free for virus | 19:20 |
| morbiuslair | I see some video from equador,... its really heartbreaking | 19:21 |
| morbiuslair | they are trowing there death on street | 19:21 |
| morbiuslair | as the government dont know what to do | 19:21 |
| morbiuslair | ;( | 19:21 |
| l0ndoner | Mexico is also heart breaking :( | 19:21 |
| morbiuslair | we are lucky, that philippines didnt come like that. the president act immediately and accordingly | 19:22 |
| spybert | The pictures of dead in Mexico and Equador haven't shown up on mainstream US news | 19:23 |
| \n3p\ | l0ndoner, why? | 19:24 |
| morbiuslair | spybert: yes, it trhink they only show it in fb... ;( | 19:24 |
| morbiuslair | but it is really a disaster | 19:24 |
| l0ndoner | \n3p\: just wondering.. Because MSM doesnt report Mexico or south America here | 19:25 |
| morbiuslair | equador news; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nF_MHT0Phvw | 19:26 |
| spybert | There is very little mention of the effects of the virus in Central and South America. You would think that nothing was wrong there from watching US news :-( | 19:26 |
| \n3p\ | morbiuslair, Mexico is just in the beginning | 19:26 |
| morbiuslair | ;( | 19:26 |
| \n3p\ | l0ndoner, maybe is because Mexico is in NORTH America | 19:26 |
| morbiuslair | I think, even this virus is gone, wearing mask should be a normal norm for our society. we dont know when the disease will strike again.. its better prepare always to defend | 19:28 |
| spybert | \n3p\: I thought Mexico was Central America? | 19:30 |
| \n3p\ | l0ndoner, I just misread. Well Mexico is a estrange country. War on drugs is a disaster. Moren than 1 million have been killed and many tens of thousands have disappeared. Not sure what the effects of COVID-19 will be here | 19:30 |
| AimHere | North America is Canada, the USA, Mexico and a bunch of islands | 19:30 |
| \n3p\ | spybert, No. Most Mexico is in North America. NAFTA means NORTH America Free Trade Agreement | 19:31 |
| morbiuslair | nb": ;) | 19:32 |
| l0ndoner | What will be the first thing you're going to do once lockdown is lifted... I'm going to a freedom party | 19:33 |
| morbiuslair | me: ill go to church, give thanks that my family was spared | 19:34 |
| \n3p\ | Central America (Guatemala, Belice, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras, Costa Rica, Panama and some islands) | 19:34 |
| mefistofeles | l0ndoner: there are many places without lockdowns, fwiw | 19:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:33 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The LA Times is now maintaining per-country death trajectories. As with those the NYT has been curating for states and countries, they are a decent way to get a handle on the places where outbreak growth is of the most urgent concern. → https://is.gd/2VAeYh | 19:36 |
| \n3p\ | Mexico City could be a disaster. But also is a very big metropolitan area so density of population in not as high as NYC and somo metro areas in other countries. Most people here live in independent houses. Not apartments in buildings. | 19:41 |
| \n3p\ | I think that could help to reduce contagious. | 19:42 |
| ubLIX | first thing to do after restrictions are lifted: go to confined space containing large number of people... | 19:43 |
| ubLIX | what could go wrong | 19:43 |
| spybert | hehe | 19:43 |
| l0ndoner | party and beer | 19:43 |
| ynhof[m] | Yeah, get a few big macs and swab your burgersfor a buzzfeed article /s :) | 19:44 |
| l0ndoner | did think McDonalds then relised I havent missed it one bit since shutting so I can live without big mac sauce | 19:45 |
| spybert | \n3p\: I don't hear much about Mexico on the news anymore. Is it possible they are going to become a failed state requiring US military intervention? | 19:45 |
| rajrajraj | china has only 1200 active cases | 19:45 |
| mefistofeles | spybert: no | 19:46 |
| \n3p\ | You could celebrate end of lockdown with a MacBat | 19:46 |
| ecov | spybert: theyve been a failed state for awhile | 19:46 |
| spybert | ecov: covid-19 and the resulting depression could really send them over the edge then ;-( | 19:47 |
| l0ndoner | China is doing really really well they beat the curve and smashed it out of the park | 19:48 |
| rajrajraj | ^ | 19:48 |
| rajrajraj | they never had more than 150 death a day | 19:49 |
| rajrajraj | usa is more than 2k deaths | 19:49 |
| \n3p\ | spybert, well for me Mexico is a failed state since many years ago. I don't think that is a good idea a military intervention because is too much territory and US ARMY can't win wars anymore. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, etc | 19:49 |
| \n3p\ | Mexico is no far from a civil war | 19:51 |
| mefistofeles | I don't think you are using the "failed state" concept correctly, fwiw | 19:52 |
| \n3p\ | Failed state for me is a country that can't controls its own territory. In Mexico there a lot of square miles that are under control of organized crime. | 19:53 |
| ecov | mexico's politics is infested with cartel money | 19:53 |
| ecov | ^^^^ | 19:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:45 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The Guardian su Twitter: "Bolsonaro dragging Brazil towards coronavirus calamity, experts fear https://t.co/sVqJn7A3fX" → https://is.gd/QIkLPW | 19:54 |
| \n3p\ | Mexican military are totally useless | 19:54 |
| Rosebud_ | spybert: US looking like failed state atm | 19:54 |
| Rosebud_ | 'infested' sounds like fox-esque | 19:55 |
| \n3p\ | Mexico is becoming North-Venezuela | 19:55 |
| ecov | yeah \n3p\ its getting to be bad | 19:55 |
| Rosebud_ | BS US is creating 'failed states' | 19:55 |
| ecov | we're talking about mexico | 19:56 |
| tinwhiskers | rajrajraj: China's data probably isn't entirely truthful so the maximum deaths per day may not be useful for comparisons, but whatever their true numbers they've been very successful at containing the spread. | 19:58 |
| Rosebud_ | tinwhiskers: gop needs a scapegoat | 19:58 |
| \n3p\ | Is not responsibility of US what is happening in Mexico. Mexico is a failed state because Mexicans are corrupts and haven't do nothing 2 centuries for build a better country | 19:58 |
| tinwhiskers | Their numbers probably aren't miles off true because they simply couldn't have hidden that from the international observers and expats but they likely aren't entirely true. | 19:58 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | <l0ndoner "What will be the first thing you"> If you're from London, you're going to have to leave the country for a proper one. | 19:59 |
| Rosebud_ | \n3p\: seems a bit racist imo | 19:59 |
| Rosebud_ | try some context | 19:59 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | <\n3p\ "Failed state for me is a country"> OffTopic (as it seems everyone is rn): Are you familiar with Chicago? | 19:59 |
| \n3p\ | Rosebud_, I'm Mexican. I'm know what I'm talking about and you don't. | 20:00 |
| \n3p\ | For assholes any critic is "racist" | 20:00 |
| ecov | same here \n3p\ hes arguing with mexicans about mexico | 20:01 |
| ecov | lmao | 20:01 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | <\n3p\ "Is not responsibility of US what"> Really? The 2 or 3 Mexican Presidents who were (publicly known to be)/CIA assets seem to hint at the possibility of that being wrong otherwise. Run a search, find out for yourself. | 20:01 |
| jester | danny you still in ny | 20:01 |
| \n3p\ | DannyWorkOrderPr, Chicago is a corrupt city full of Mexicans. Mexican narcos are the enemies #1 in Chicago | 20:02 |
| \n3p\ | DannyWorkOrderPr, conspiracy theories? | 20:03 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | No, conspiracy facts. Like I said, run a search instead of your mouth, if you're actually interested. | 20:04 |
| \n3p\ | By the way the actual president of Mexico is an ass kisser of one of the CIA "assets" | 20:04 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes, anything you find on the internet will be true | 20:04 |
| l0ndoner | imagine if this lock down happened 18 years ago you'd be stuck at home with a Nokia 3310 with 300 texts 100min call limit and dial up interwebs lmfao | 20:05 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | <tinwhiskers "Yes, anything you find on the in"> No, but a lot is. Declassified documents that Federal govt tries to avoid sharing until 30+ years later can hint at a lot. | 20:05 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm sure naturalnews.com and other such beacons of rational thinking will verify your theories /s | 20:05 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | <jester "danny you still in ny"> Assuming I know you, since I recognize the handle. What's got you on IRC/Matrix?! | 20:05 |
| ecov | l0ndoner: we would all be much happier | 20:05 |
| ubLIX | \n3p\: note that "Mexicans are corrupts" is an expression too imprecise to be a valuable statement here, the more so because we are not expected to know you are Mexican | 20:06 |
| \n3p\ | But I stop talking of Mexico here because the channel is COVID-19. Sorry for the digression | 20:06 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | <tinwhiskers "I'm sure naturalnews.com and oth"> lmao. If you think CIA.gov and FBI.gov are natural news, this conversation isn't worth having. Put your head back in the sand. | 20:07 |
| ubLIX | time for a coffee break, probably, DannyWorkOrderPr | 20:09 |
| rajrajraj | tinwhiskers: but they have contained it | 20:09 |
| rajrajraj | So its kinda sad | 20:09 |
| rajrajraj | That they are celebrating and we are suffering | 20:09 |
| \n3p\ | The world is doing well against COVID. Now things look less scary than 2 weeks ago. | 20:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:58 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Boris Johnson → https://is.gd/KBgAJg | 20:11 |
| ecov | the hypochondriacs will have to find something else to flip their shit over | 20:11 |
| tinwhiskers | ecov++ | 20:11 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | tinwhiskers: \n3p\: Happy Easter, and read a book, motherfuckers. This should get you started: | 20:16 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | Declassified documents show three Mexican presidents worked for the CIA - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16195392 | 20:16 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | (URL has since been killed, archive here, on the off chance your smug asses actually read it/run it through a translator): http://archive.vn/xReIH | 20:16 |
| l0ndoner | politics always leads to arguments | 20:17 |
| l0ndoner | lol | 20:17 |
| merethan | 403 for me DannyWorkOrderPr | 20:17 |
| tinwhiskers | :-/ | 20:18 |
| merethan | And SSL cert / Cloudflare is b0rked. | 20:18 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | http://archive.vn/xReIH | 20:18 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | merethan: http://archive.vn/xReIH | 20:18 |
| \n3p\ | DannyWorkOrderPr, we atheists don't celebrate easter. Don't believe all that is published in books. | 20:18 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | <\n3p\ "Danny@WorkOrderPro, we atheists "> Struggling to figure out who benefits from the CIA admitting 40-50 years later they owned three Mexican Presidents, but, hey, think what ya like. Happy Zombie Jesus Day, and shit | 20:19 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah, ok... Thanks DannyWorkOrderPr. Let's leave it there :-/ | 20:20 |
| \n3p\ | DannyWorkOrderPr, I knew about those declassified documents. But don't bealieve a word from Anabel Hernandez. She writes pure al total crap. | 20:20 |
| tinwhiskers | Take it to another channel please | 20:21 |
| DannyWorkOrderPr | <\n3p\ "Danny@WorkOrderPro, I knew about"> Who's she? If you're talking about a journalist who summarized the CIA document dump, then... | 20:22 |
| \n3p\ | DannyWorkOrderPr, some tips. 1) Cold War 2) Soviets in Mexico 3) Oswald in Mexico 4) Castro & Che in Mexico | 20:23 |
| tinwhiskers | Damn, I keep forgetting people are on matrix | 20:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:10 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Pope gives Easter mass by live stream as global death toll passes 110,000 → https://is.gd/5DqUwq | 20:28 |
| tinwhiskers | https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/11/the-latest-hydroxychloroquine-data-as-of-april-11 shows some concerning info about cardiovascular complications when used in conjunction with certain antibiotics but also looks quite promising. | 20:34 |
| mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: yeah, saw that one, it's interesting | 20:36 |
| mefistofeles | so many different results :/ | 20:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:28 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: JHU director warns May 1 too soon to reopen, UK PM Johnson discharged → https://is.gd/1gWrcT | 20:45 |
| \n3p\ | "Fauci: China Gave ‘Misinformation’ to the World — Virus Erupted in Mid-December" | 20:54 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Fauci: If Covid-19 mitigation efforts started earlier, "you could have saved lives" (10266 votes) | https://redd.it/fzxhcy | 20:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 18:44 UTC: Coronavirus US live: Cuomo says 'we need to be smart in how we reopen' economy: New York governor: ‘We need a coordinated and a safe approach’ Trump to base reopening call on ‘facts and instincts’ US deaths pass 20,000 and confirmed cases reach 529,843 WHO envoy says virus ‘will stalk the human race’ Live [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Uv6E0J | 21:02 |
| ImaLamer | Anywhere people have seen reports of the ATL airport? | 21:12 |
| tinwhiskers | ImaLamer: what have you heard? | 21:13 |
| ImaLamer | Nothing, I'm looking for any realistic reports of the state of affairs | 21:13 |
| ImaLamer | Odd I don't hear much about the world's busiest airport | 21:14 |
| l0ndoner | sup everyone \o/ | 21:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:13 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Pope gives Easter mass by live stream as global death toll passes 110,000 → https://is.gd/5DqUwq | 21:19 |
| ImaLamer | yo l0ndoner | 21:20 |
| Jigsy | I wonder what happens when all the doctors and other medical staff die of COVID-19... | 21:35 |
| Jigsy | ...do we just give up a species at that point? | 21:35 |
| Jigsy | A slightly pessimistic observation, but one I couldn't help thinking about. | 21:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:33 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: JHU director warns May 1 too soon to reopen, UK PM Johnson discharged → https://is.gd/1gWrcT | 21:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Jigsy: the mortality rate is around 1-2%, give or take a bit depending on average age of medical staff. They are not all going to die and they are not all going to be sick at once. | 21:39 |
| Jigsy | tinwhiskers: It was more of a "what if" situation. | 21:39 |
| Jigsy | Realistically, it's not going to happen. | 21:39 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes, if the impossible happens it'd suck | 21:40 |
| tinwhiskers | That's the sort of negative and thoughtless comment that spreads unnecessary fear so you'll have to forgive me if I don't give it much credit. | 21:41 |
| l0ndoner | tinwhiskers: uk sitting at 6% ? | 21:41 |
| farn | To be fair, the species survived about 200,000 years without anything we'd consider medicine | 21:42 |
| mefistofeles | l0ndoner: it's known there are many more cases than the reported ones | 21:42 |
| AimHere | l0ndoner, UK decided early on it wasn't going to bother testing people, really | 21:42 |
| AimHere | We should consider ourselves lucky that they decided they were going to impose social distancing | 21:42 |
| l0ndoner | AimHere: yea herd immunity .. think thier still strongly looking at this | 21:43 |
| mefistofeles | UK never went for herd immunity | 21:43 |
| AimHere | Well herd immunity is part of the process of beating this. Going all out for quick herd immunity without a vaccine is insane | 21:43 |
| mefistofeles | that was something the media wrongly popularized | 21:43 |
| AimHere | UK did originally think about it, then they had a big meeting with scientists who told them they were being morons, and they changed their mind | 21:44 |
| AimHere | The UK Chief Medical Officer actually stated that was the intention | 21:44 |
| tinwhiskers | l0ndoner: no, the 6% figure is artificially high because it only considers deaths compared to confirmed cases, whereas really there are more cases. | 21:44 |
| l0ndoner | why it only affects 2% of population of 66million | 21:44 |
| AimHere | Maybe Chief Scientific officer | 21:44 |
| AimHere | l0ndoner, why what only affects 2% of the population? | 21:44 |
| tinwhiskers | l0ndoner: it affects more than 2%. 2% DIE | 21:44 |
| mefistofeles | less even, tbh | 21:45 |
| AimHere | I suspect the true CFR will be less than 1% | 21:45 |
| l0ndoner | mortality rate im on about sorry | 21:45 |
| mefistofeles | AimHere: surely | 21:45 |
| mefistofeles | I'd say around 0.4 | 21:45 |
| mefistofeles | % | 21:45 |
| AimHere | Well viruses aren't really designed to kill their hosts, It's just incidental that they do | 21:45 |
| AimHere | Most viruses anyways | 21:45 |
| tinwhiskers | mefistofeles: yeah, likely a quite a bit less than 2% | 21:46 |
| blkshp | Just watched Boris' 'I'm out of hospital' video. He really didn't need to wear a suit. No one would have cared if it was a poloshirt day! lol | 21:47 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 21:47 |
| AimHere | Boris probably wants more layers of clothing, not less | 21:47 |
| AimHere | He's not exactly slimline | 21:47 |
| blkshp | Is there a need to fat shame people? | 21:48 |
| blkshp | :P | 21:48 |
| AimHere | It's not a shame thing, it's a 'what will the spin doctors do to make sure he looks good on TV' thing | 21:48 |
| blkshp | I was joking, sorry, i didn't add my :P at the end! :S | 21:48 |
| l0ndoner | mortality of 7.7bilion is 2% so thats 140 odd million deaths .. China can give birth to that number in a year ... | 21:48 |
| tinwhiskers | dressing as santa is a good look for fat people | 21:49 |
| l0ndoner | that sounds wrong | 21:49 |
| l0ndoner | sorry for the way i've put it | 21:49 |
| blkshp | tinwhiskers:: lol! | 21:49 |
| ynhof[m] | depending on your history it coukd get you in jail | 21:49 |
| \n3p\ | The worst virus is political-correctness | 21:51 |
| blkshp | It has it's places | 21:52 |
| blkshp | Most places. | 21:52 |
| tinwhiskers | l0ndoner: My maths may be wrong but isn't 2% of 7.7 billion 150 million? Not that I'm suggesting that many will die. | 21:52 |
| mefistofeles | just use common sense and empathy | 21:52 |
| mefistofeles | it's not that hard | 21:52 |
| MetaNova | tinwhiskers: that match checks out | 21:53 |
| MetaNova | 154 million | 21:53 |
| l0ndoner | tinwhiskers: it wasnt an exact figure that was off the top of my head | 21:53 |
| tinwhiskers | oh, sorry l0ndoner I actually misread your comment. excuse me. | 21:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:42 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus US live: Trump heralds disaster declarations in all 50 states and says US is 'winning' → https://is.gd/Uv6E0J | 21:54 |
| hirogen | <tinwhiskers> l0ndoner: My maths may be wrong but isn't 2% of 7.7 billion 150 million? Not that I'm suggesting that many will die. | 21:54 |
| hirogen | 2% of mostly old ppl over 70 | 21:54 |
| hirogen | so not 150 million | 21:55 |
| SilverZ | %data lebanon | 21:55 |
| Brainstorm | SilverZ: In all areas, Lebanon, there are 625 cases (0.0% of the population) and 20 deaths (3.2% of cases). 14554 tests were performed (4.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lebanon for time series data. | 21:55 |
| tinwhiskers | erm. let's move on. this is all wrong | 21:55 |
| ynhof[m] | That means over half a billion people will suffer effects of coronavirus, others asymptomatic - no? | 21:56 |
| SilverZ | what's wrong ? | 21:56 |
| tinwhiskers | well, not if the suppression works | 21:56 |
| tinwhiskers | if the suppression doesn't work then about 80% of 7.7 billion will be infected, 50% will have symptoms, and about 1% will die | 21:57 |
| sternenmusik[m] | The case fatality rate of pneumonia is not high because of Covid19! | 21:57 |
| tinwhiskers | with suppression it entirely depends on how and when the lockdowns are eased so it's not a matter of straight percentages | 21:57 |
| l0ndoner | the amount of vinyl gloves just strewn in the street is shocking. went to my local supermarket and gloves are just tossed.. I'm like what the f....k | 21:58 |
| ynhof[m] | I think it works like a spike in the readings, the denser the infection rate the lower the chance of containment. | 21:58 |
| ynhof[m] | I wonder if nyc is past point of no return like italian debse areas | 21:58 |
| ynhof[m] | I.e if 80% get it then basically almost no one without extravagant resources can avoid it | 21:59 |
| tinwhiskers | we also have some drug treatments that *may* be available in the coming month or so, convalescent plasma therapy is probably going to help lower the death rate, and a vaccine may be a bit closer than previously thought (maybe not). With these mitigations the effective death rate is going to be much lower. | 22:00 |
| tinwhiskers | just stalling by locking people down for periods of time until a vaccine is ready could greatly reduce the effective death rate | 22:01 |
| tinwhiskers | (by not overloading hospitals and allowing time to plan/learn/trial, etc.) | 22:01 |
| l0ndoner | tinwhiskers: I'm hearing Europe is now scared that an even bigger influx of migrants will head to Europe from third world countries because their infrastructure cant cope.. The influx will be multitudes bigger than the influx that came from Syria | 22:01 |
| tinwhiskers | dang. | 22:03 |
| mefistofeles | I doubt it | 22:03 |
| mefistofeles | many airports have been closed for commercial flights, and I know the busiest airport in Europe is working at 10% of capacity or something like that | 22:04 |
| mefistofeles | so even if people want, they couldn't do that | 22:04 |
| tinwhiskers | I assume they'll be coming over land | 22:04 |
| tinwhiskers | on foot | 22:05 |
| ynhof[m] | Maybe if they run ouf if food but it would be a suicide trip because logistically fewer ships could be boarded etc | 22:05 |
| mefistofeles | most land borders have strict controls in Europe | 22:05 |
| ynhof[m] | Oh | 22:05 |
| tinwhiskers | yes | 22:05 |
| mefistofeles | but it's still happening a bit, French flooding Germany | 22:05 |
| mefistofeles | but now therer are more strict controls | 22:05 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Social distancing and hygienic behaviours are essential to get over this and if we all look after each other we are going to get trough this. | 22:06 |
| euod[m] | mefistofeles: land borders I hope you mean. | 22:06 |
| tinwhiskers | if you have many thousands of people hitting the border you might fail to exclude people, and or relent due to a possible humanitarian disaster | 22:06 |
| euod[m] | mefistofeles: exiting the EU. | 22:06 |
| ynhof[m] | Le joke "French retreating from France" ._. | 22:06 |
| tinwhiskers | ynhof[m]: lol | 22:06 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: what I said | 22:06 |
| l0ndoner | tinwhiskers: that is what they are really worried about | 22:07 |
| mefistofeles | even within EU | 22:07 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Stay calm, follow the rules and dont expose elderly or sick to high virus concentration. | 22:07 |
| mefistofeles | sternenmusik[m]: yes :) | 22:07 |
| euod[m] | mefistofeles: huh? there's basically no borders in western europe. I've been in most of the countries and never seen a border at all. | 22:07 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: still, there are borders controls, I don't know how they are doing it, but they are doing it | 22:08 |
| l0ndoner | euod[m]: the Syrian refugee crisis closed many western european borders | 22:08 |
| mefistofeles | I know for sure for Germany, and countries neighboring The Netherlands, and Portugal with Spain as well | 22:08 |
| euod[m] | mefistofeles: I don't see how. I've literally walked from NL to BE and NL to DE, and driven to FR from BE. | 22:08 |
| l0ndoner | then Italy had to take them | 22:08 |
| l0ndoner | eastern I mean and southern | 22:09 |
| l0ndoner | not western | 22:09 |
| mefistofeles | anyways, if that was the case it would've been already happening, and, guess what, it's not , at least not as bad | 22:09 |
| l0ndoner | but you have that many people congregate at the borders | 22:10 |
| l0ndoner | its not good | 22:10 |
| mefistofeles | but I know many land borders controls within the EU are in place | 22:10 |
| euod[m] | I'd like to see that on the NL/BE border. | 22:10 |
| euod[m] | there's parts of BE that are in NL, inside of BE, inside of NL. seriously. | 22:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:01 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Pope gives Easter mass by live stream as global death toll passes 110,000: Jordan, Italy, India, Saudi Arabia, Puerto Rico extend lockdown; Britain pledges £200m to WHO; partner of Julian Assange calls for prison release → https://is.gd/5DqUwq | 22:11 |
| euod[m] | there's part of belgium that's like, a single persons house. | 22:11 |
| sternenmusik[m] | We have borders now. | 22:11 |
| l0ndoner | isnt there a street that passes from BE to NL back to BE something like that | 22:11 |
| farn | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/25/shop-shuts-belgian-half-over-covid-19-but-keeps-dutch-half-open | 22:12 |
| euod[m] | l0ndoner: nah, way way worse. basically some kings decided to trade land, and it ended up splitting some towns like patchwork. | 22:12 |
| euod[m] | l0ndoner: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Belgium/@51.4130919,4.8521242,12z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x47c17d64edf39797:0x47ebf2b439e60ff2!8m2!3d50.503887!4d4.469936 | 22:13 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Not even the "Green" borders are open. But it has also strong message Europe is not open for the Afghani, Pakistani anymore. | 22:13 |
| l0ndoner | woa you have little enclaves inside enclaves | 22:14 |
| euod[m] | l0ndoner: yeah, it's really sweet. the police stations are split in half, french on one side, dutch on the other :) | 22:14 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Turkey tried their best to push invasion but the spartans did defend Greek. | 22:15 |
| euod[m] | " in the 1970s criminals managed to launder money inside a local bank by using the town’s unique geo-political layout to their advantage. As the bank’s entrance and vault were located in the Netherlands and Belgium respectively, it was impossible for authorities from either country to conduct full investigations without stepping outside their national jurisdictions." | 22:16 |
| l0ndoner | my point is how can we move forward and lift lockdown if there is the slightest possibility that 1) the weakest nations on earth wont be able to cope so the citizens may flee. 2) half the population with smart phones will have an app saying your clear or your not, how do we travel? | 22:16 |
| sternenmusik[m] | * Turkey tried their best to push invasion but the spartans did defend Greek. (bit of a joke, dont take it literally...). | 22:17 |
| sternenmusik[m] | * Turkey tried their best to push invasion but the spartans did defend Greek. (bit of a joke, dont take it literally...). If Turkey really wants to they can run over Greece easily. | 22:17 |
| tinwhiskers | l0ndoner: our plans to lift lockdown don't really relate to the possibility of migrants coming in since the timing of any possible migration is not linked to the timing of easing restrictions... is it? | 22:18 |
| euod[m] | the simple answer is that you don't travel. | 22:18 |
| tinwhiskers | I mean they might come but I don't think that changes the plan for easing lockdowns | 22:18 |
| euod[m] | travel is, by and large, a luxury. | 22:19 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <euod[m] "travel is, by and large, a luxur"> True and it's not really essential most of the time. | 22:20 |
| l0ndoner | tinwhiskers: I dont know. But as a world population are we not as good as the weakest link in the chain. Just a train of thought or do we leave the weakest nations to fend for themselves | 22:20 |
| LjL | i was just made aware by TV that the number of daily tests published in Italy actually includes the "two negatives" for people to be declared recovered. that changes the picture a fair bit | 22:20 |
| euod[m] | I don't see travel for vacations and that sort of thing happening in the next year or two, minimum. | 22:20 |
| tinwhiskers | I don't know how to answer that, but I'm just saying it's not related to plans to ease the lockdowns | 22:21 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <l0ndoner "tinwhiskers: I dont know. But a"> Once the strong er ones are better of they can support the weak to get better hygienic standard. | 22:22 |
| tinwhiskers | There will be no tourists here this season, that's for sure. The great news is that the whales will likely return to the inner bays due to not being hassled all day by the whale operators. I like whales :-) | 22:22 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <tinwhiskers "There will be no tourists here t"> Good for you 😊 | 22:22 |
| tinwhiskers | sternenmusik[m]: now II'm just more confused about what the topic is. | 22:23 |
| euod[m] | good for the whales. | 22:23 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <tinwhiskers "sternenmusik: now II'm just more"> Its all about the whales 😉 | 22:26 |
| tinwhiskers | oh, cool :-) | 22:26 |
| sternenmusik[m] | If each of us steps back a bit, uses resources rationally, does travel less, distance when feeling not well, doesnt go to work sick, looks after the sick and elderly and respects nature we can be fine. | 22:29 |
| mefistofeles | we will be fine regardless, nobody expects this thing to be that out of control tbh | 22:30 |
| mefistofeles | now, this may teach some a lesson, we'll see | 22:30 |
| ynhof[m] | Anyone here still use piratebay? no? What did you move on to? | 22:31 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah we'll "get through this" even if we do nothing | 22:31 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <mefistofeles "we will be fine regardless, nobo"> This is why anarchy was described as worst possible scenario? | 22:31 |
| euod[m] | mefistofeles: really? it looks like hundreds of thousands of people in the US are going to die, if not more. | 22:31 |
| l0ndoner | <<-- Streaming | 22:31 |
| LjL | euod[m], how can you find it hard to think there are border checks within the EU, when in Italy (as in Spain, France...) we have lots of police check *within one country* and heavy fines for leaving your municipality, nevermind your country? | 22:31 |
| LjL | of course there are border controls now | 22:31 |
| LjL | doesn't mean you cannot dodge them by walking on some mountain pass, but that was always the case | 22:32 |
| euod[m] | LjL: I've just been accustomed to never seeing any sort of borders when I've been in EU. | 22:32 |
| LjL | walking from the NL to Belgium? Maybe you can do it, just the same as i can walk from Milan to Monza, but if i do that, i can get fined. heavily. | 22:32 |
| LjL | euod[m], well things are clearly different *now* with this epidemic. | 22:32 |
| LjL | most of western Europe is locked down, and borders ARE enforced. | 22:32 |
| LjL | you cannot extend what you saw in the EU when things were fine to the situation now... | 22:33 |
| ynhof[m] | Nobody p2p? All cdn users here? Pschh | 22:33 |
| LjL | ynhof[m], what? | 22:33 |
| LjL | ynhof[m], what does piratebay have to do with this channel? | 22:33 |
| l0ndoner | LjL: he is talking torrenting . piracy | 22:33 |
| ynhof[m] | I guess nothing | 22:33 |
| ynhof[m] | Not piracy | 22:34 |
| ynhof[m] | But yes will stop talking about unrelated matter, sorry | 22:34 |
| mefistofeles | euod[m]: yes, but absolute numbers can be confusing, they will die in many months or years | 22:34 |
| mefistofeles | also, it's known that many of the deaths are of people with already critical conditions due to other diseases | 22:35 |
| mefistofeles | Hamburg and Rotterdam are two examples of that | 22:35 |
| sternenmusik[m] | There is no proof of higher case rate mortality because of Covid19 infection. | 22:36 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <mefistofeles "Hamburg and Rotterdam are two ex"> Exactly. | 22:36 |
| LjL | ? | 22:36 |
| LjL | what is there no proof of? | 22:36 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, what was that? | 22:37 |
| sternenmusik[m] | If you dont pick 102 year old from old peoples home intubate them and note Covid19 as the reason for dead the percentage is not higher at all, just marginally. | 22:38 |
| jester | the dead cost less than the living | 22:38 |
| jester | trumps plans working | 22:38 |
| l0ndoner | old people homes arnt counted in the figures | 22:38 |
| \n3p\ | Hypothesis: Maybe COVID-19 is not as dangerous and deadlier was we thought. But high rate of contagious killed very fast vulnerable people and we overreact to that | 22:38 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <l0ndoner "old people homes arnt counted in"> In France and Germany they are for sure. | 22:39 |
| LjL | "overreact"? is it an overreaction to protect a special group of people who are very badly affected? | 22:39 |
| ecov | l0ndoner just making shit up | 22:39 |
| LjL | i don't like that frame of mind at all. | 22:39 |
| l0ndoner | not in the WHO figures there not | 22:39 |
| mefistofeles | \n3p\: that'sa possibility, but it's still advisable to play it safe and prepare for worst case scenarios | 22:39 |
| l0ndoner | ecov: why so rude? | 22:40 |
| mefistofeles | Som experts in Austria and Germany are already thinking that those countries may have overreacted, but still, probably they did what they had to do in any case | 22:40 |
| \n3p\ | LjL, protect elderly is ok, but lockdown maybe is too much. | 22:40 |
| LjL | ecov, indeed please tone that down. disagree? ask for data, or provide your own. | 22:41 |
| python476 | tinwhiskers: I just understood your nick | 22:41 |
| LjL | \n3p\, i find it baffling that there are people who still think that. utterly baffling. | 22:41 |
| LjL | i don't know how to express it | 22:41 |
| LjL | we have talked about all the grim things so much | 22:41 |
| LjL | crematoriums being overwhelmed, people of all ages being intubated for weeks | 22:41 |
| \n3p\ | mefistofeles, agree. We know very little of the virus yet. | 22:41 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <\n3p\ "Hypothesis: Maybe COVID-19 is no"> The pneumonia does kill and yes its very contagious thats why looking after each other does work, we just need to be careful thats all. | 22:42 |
| LjL | and you're still basically like the good old "it's just a flue" | 22:42 |
| tinwhiskers | also the numbers just don't agree with what you're saying \n3p\ | 22:42 |
| ecov | did we ever establish if people were getting reinfected | 22:42 |
| LjL | i don't know what to say to that anymore. | 22:42 |
| ecov | or if the virus is being reactivated | 22:42 |
| ecov | someone was spewing it as fact yesterday but never cited | 22:42 |
| tinwhiskers | ecov: not conclusively. | 22:42 |
| LjL | we don't know | 22:42 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <\n3p\ "mefistofeles, agree. We know ver"> We know a lot about it. | 22:43 |
| l0ndoner | China are seeing no new cases ecov But we just dont know | 22:43 |
| nixonix | until recently france only counted sars-2 fatalities that happened in hospitals. now i think nursery homes or whatever are counted. and in ny those died at home are not, because they dont get tested. fatality numbers are not accurate perhaps anywhere | 22:43 |
| jester | [14:38:14] <jester> the dead cost less than the living | 22:43 |
| jester | [14:38:20] <jester> trumps plans working | 22:43 |
| tinwhiskers | it's possible some people are not forming long-lasting antibodies and those people could become infected again | 22:43 |
| \n3p\ | tinwhiskers, but mortality < 1% is a real chance i | 22:43 |
| tinwhiskers | \n3p\: yes, that's likely | 22:43 |
| ecov | jester why are you quoting yourself | 22:43 |
| LjL | nixonix, definitely not in italy | 22:43 |
| sternenmusik[m] | We have different strings of virus circulating over a hundred most probably... | 22:44 |
| nixonix | in ny state (or city, not sure) they estimated share of those died at home was 20%, that would increase the fatality number by 25% (according to some article) | 22:44 |
| jester | new members | 22:44 |
| mefistofeles | nixonix: yes, but again, that doesn't mean they are not showing when things are slowing down or that the true rates cannot be inferred | 22:44 |
| ecov | jester but what you said had no substance.... I'm confused.... anyway.... | 22:44 |
| tinwhiskers | \n3p\: but you said "Maybe COVID-19 is not as dangerous and deadlier was we thought" but 1% is pretty much what we thought. | 22:44 |
| mefistofeles | these are error that are expected and every model of epidemics account for those | 22:45 |
| \n3p\ | I'll think that mortality rate will decrease dramatically in the next weeks/months. And probably a very high rate of asymptomatic zero-positives | 22:46 |
| tinwhiskers | \n3p\: what we do know from testing is that it is not vastly more widespread than expected. | 22:46 |
| l0ndoner | \n3p\: 1% of say Mexico city needing hospital treatment all at same time will crash the city infrastructure over night though | 22:46 |
| nixonix | mefistofeles: if they dont change it, like france did recently. but it also makes it difficult to compare different countries trajectories. or to use fatalities in infection models, unless the differencies are known and considered by adjusting the models | 22:46 |
| ecov | Yeah mexico is in for a ride | 22:46 |
| mefistofeles | nixonix: yes, every country is special, but there are many signs one can check for slowing down | 22:46 |
| mefistofeles | either from data directly or from models built on the data | 22:47 |
| mefistofeles | and what's seen is that the countries that have tested more, get closer to the models | 22:48 |
| tinwhiskers | \n3p\: like the tall tales people are telling about it having quietly spread asymptomatically to most of the population is just not supported by any evidence | 22:48 |
| sternenmusik[m] | * I think that I got infected by high concentration of virus. | 22:48 |
| ecov | ive heard so many people say that | 22:48 |
| ecov | please stop | 22:49 |
| tinwhiskers | hypochondriacs | 22:49 |
| \n3p\ | tinwhiskers, yes. My English is not as good as I like to be precise. It's a matter of relative comparatives. I don't want to downplay the virus. It's many time deadlier than flu. But my compared to initial mortality rate in Italy, now doesn't look so bad | 22:49 |
| nixonix | new infections have slowed down because of lockdown measures, and it reduces the pressure on icu beds and ventilators. but herd immunity is still far anywhere, so when they reduce lockdown measures, infections will increase again | 22:49 |
| tinwhiskers | \n3p\: nobody ever expected the crude CFR would match the true CFR. Those numbers always look worse. | 22:50 |
| mefistofeles | nixonix: yes, that's why countries that cannot afford having a relapse won't ease measures | 22:50 |
| mefistofeles | those who can will, and are... | 22:50 |
| nixonix | mefistofeles: any particular country in mind? | 22:50 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <nixonix "new infections have slowed down "> Didnt NYC test 30% positive one day? | 22:51 |
| mefistofeles | nixonix: Austria, Denmark, Germany... I've heard Australia as well | 22:51 |
| mefistofeles | of course Korea and CHina | 22:51 |
| tinwhiskers | sternenmusik[m]: 30% of what? | 22:51 |
| l0ndoner | nixonix: China hasnt seen increase from Wauhan after lockdown was lifted so maybe the rest of the world wont? | 22:51 |
| LjL | china's curve has not been matched by any of the rest of the world | 22:51 |
| mefistofeles | l0ndoner: it's not that simple | 22:51 |
| LjL | not even Korea | 22:52 |
| mefistofeles | China measures were far more strict | 22:52 |
| nixonix | you guys buy numbers that china presents? | 22:52 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: Australia is close to that | 22:52 |
| mefistofeles | but that's not really the issue | 22:52 |
| LjL | nixonix, well if we buy the numbers that they're not having a relapse now, we can as well buy the numbers about their previous curve. if we don't either, then we can stop talking about it | 22:52 |
| tinwhiskers | in most countries the lockdowns may vastly slow the spread but not eliminate it (supermarkets?). when restrictions are eased you can be fairly sure the virus will reappear. | 22:53 |
| mefistofeles | nixonix: that's not the discussion, I said a number of other countries, no need to focus on China alone | 22:53 |
| LjL | supermarkets are such a pet peeve for me | 22:53 |
| mefistofeles | but yeah, I do buy China numbers, tbh | 22:53 |
| tinwhiskers | s/fairly sure/absolutely certain/ | 22:53 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <nixonix "you guys buy numbers that china "> China did warn clearly not to take the virus lightly and have been widely ignored... | 22:53 |
| l0ndoner | LjL: my pet peeve about supermarkets is the thrown away vinyl gloves just strewn over the car parks | 22:54 |
| l0ndoner | really pees me off | 22:54 |
| AimHere | Yeah, Put those things in a bin, ffc | 22:54 |
| AimHere | *ffs | 22:54 |
| LjL | i haven't seen heaps of gloves thrown on the streets | 22:54 |
| LjL | maybe italians are less trash-happy than i thought | 22:54 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <sternenmusik[m] "China did warn clearly not to ta"> You wouldnt let a chinese delegation look for answers in your state, so why should they give you access? | 22:54 |
| mefistofeles | I've seen face masks and gloves in the streets around here | 22:54 |
| mefistofeles | well, like a couple, tbh | 22:55 |
| l0ndoner | same | 22:55 |
| mefistofeles | funny thing is that nobody wears them xD | 22:55 |
| LjL | sternenmusik[m], err, i understand that people on Matrix naturally use replies, but aside from the fact i ask them to avoid it when unnecessary, for the sake of IRC users... now you're replying to *yourself*? | 22:55 |
| sternenmusik[m] | Can someone shut up my neighbour please??? | 22:55 |
| nixonix | there are different levels of lockdown measures, eg. if barbershops and small stores are closed somewhere, and they have had less new infections recently, certainly opening some of them dont increase the numbers that much, if most of measures stay like they are. but it doesnt mean most of them can be lifted | 22:55 |
| nixonix | for a very long time | 22:56 |
| l0ndoner | I wear gloves and a Bandana snood over my face and nose | 22:56 |
| mefistofeles | nixonix: well, nobody is pursuing lifting all measures at once | 22:56 |
| mefistofeles | that doesn't make sense | 22:56 |
| l0ndoner | mouth and nose | 22:56 |
| mefistofeles | I mean, not even logistically | 22:56 |
| euod[m] | nixonix: in australia hair dressing is an essential service :) | 22:56 |
| nixonix | mefistofeles: are you from germany? | 22:56 |
| l0ndoner | when I go shopping | 22:57 |
| LjL | Italy seems to be flirting with a concept of "immunity passport" but i guess that's based on the expectation of high levels of immunity in the north... which i'm not a huge believer in | 22:57 |
| mefistofeles | nixonix: no | 22:57 |
| Urchin | %data croatia | 22:57 |
| Brainstorm | Urchin: In all areas, Croatia, there are 1600 cases (0.0% of the population) and 23 deaths (1.4% of cases). 16381 tests were performed (9.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.5% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 5.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Croatia for time series data. | 22:57 |
| l0ndoner | LjL: uk wants google and Apple to roll out an NHS app | 22:57 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <LjL "sternenmusik, err, i understand "> Got it, thanks for letting me know mate. | 22:58 |
| nixonix | mefistofeles: those cant be lifted even gradually all, for a very long time. it just starts spreading expontentially again, untill infection numbers are close to herd immunity level | 22:58 |
| l0ndoner | this seems like a thin edge of a wedge if we are going down this path... Who here is concerned about goverment intrusion? | 22:58 |
| mefistofeles | nixonix: yes, that's expected, and nothing wrong with having exponential growth again, as long as the hospitals can cope with it | 22:58 |
| eaxomar | l0ndoner who isn't? | 22:59 |
| nixonix | yes, there is lot of wrong in thinking about that | 22:59 |
| mefistofeles | confinement and quarantie doesn't really save that many lives, it just avoid flooding the hospital at once, but overall the difference in cases and deaths, in the long run, is pretty similar | 22:59 |
| eaxomar | I'd be as worried about the google and apple part | 22:59 |
| euod[m] | why? | 22:59 |
| euod[m] | you can do things like that in a privacy sensitive way. | 23:00 |
| mefistofeles | specially because there are no effective treatments or cures or vaccine | 23:00 |
| tinwhiskers | google... privacy sensitive way... lols | 23:00 |
| l0ndoner | ^ | 23:00 |
| Urchin | mefistofeles: the whole point in avoiding exponential growth is that hospitals would not be able to cope with it, and you'd have mass graves like in New York | 23:00 |
| euod[m] | tinwhiskers: they released details of a protocol to do so, and it is to some extent privacy preserving. though I wouldn't put that down to Google's involvement. | 23:00 |
| mefistofeles | Urchin: doesn't work taht way for all countries, again, Germany is a good example of that | 23:01 |
| eaxomar | but now i feel dumb, they already have localization info. But I like a clear church/state separation | 23:01 |
| mefistofeles | and if they can cope with many cases and exponential growth, they will get closer to a herd immunity faster | 23:01 |
| l0ndoner | euod[m]: the app has been released for testing and privacy experts have their reservation | 23:01 |
| mefistofeles | so you have to tweak those, and those depends on many specific things for every country or region | 23:01 |
| euod[m] | eaxomar: there's a whole industry around privately tracking your cellphones location. | 23:01 |
| nixonix | when we are not near the herd immunity level (probably 75-85%, but even if it was less): beginning of epidemic, eg. 1000 infected, doubling time eg 3 days. there will be 16k infected in 12 days. but if there is 100k infected and the lockdown measures are removed, again 3 days doubling rate -> 1.6M infected in 12 days | 23:02 |
| euod[m] | l0ndoner: I'm literally one of them and I've read the design. | 23:02 |
| tinwhiskers | Urchin: you can't really avoid exponential growth if you're going to ease restrictions. The value of the exponent can change... but if R(eff) is > 1 then you get exponential growth | 23:02 |
| nixonix | so its even worse to do that later | 23:02 |
| mefistofeles | also, it's not realistic that the restrictions can be mantained for really long periods | 23:02 |
| tinwhiskers | right | 23:02 |
| euod[m] | sure it is. | 23:02 |
| eaxomar | euod yes i spoke without thinking. | 23:02 |
| mefistofeles | specially in countries that can cope with it, as was said in the first place | 23:02 |
| nixonix | think those numbers awhile. then lets talk again some day | 23:03 |
| euod[m] | l0ndoner: the protocol isn't perfect, but it's better than nothing, and frankly, privacy sort of pales in a pandemic. | 23:03 |
| LjL | l0ndoner, i am concerned with privacy and i hope apps can be made that are *actually* privacy-preserving, but i don't feel that i know if those can work in practice. i'd want to monitor these things carefully to see what exactly they do, but at some point it becomes a matter of which rights we'd rather (temporarily, hopefully) lose: privacy, or freedom of movement? neither sounds great | 23:03 |
| l0ndoner | what happens if and when we get over corona virus and another pandemic comes right along agter? | 23:03 |
| mefistofeles | nixonix: real cases are thought to be in the millions already, for countries like Germany or Italy | 23:03 |
| eaxomar | euod I really don't believe that though. A temporary measure is always permanent. | 23:04 |
| tinwhiskers | l0ndoner: we deal with it? | 23:04 |
| l0ndoner | what if you cant travel without the app? | 23:04 |
| l0ndoner | this is something fundermental | 23:04 |
| euod[m] | eaxomar: I'm fairly confident in apple's ability to make it temporary. they've gone to some insane lengths to make their services privacy preserving, even though they have no need. | 23:04 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, apple I would tend to believe more | 23:05 |
| eaxomar | I was more talking about the government part in that case. | 23:05 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <mefistofeles "specially because there are no e"> Which is completely normal for a virus. | 23:05 |
| eaxomar | And I really don't believe mixing silicon valley and government is a good move for democracy | 23:06 |
| euod[m] | eaxomar: the data exposed by the service is closer to just saying who came into contact with who, rather than something that gives any parties a particular amount of locational data. it's not perfect, but it's also not nothing. | 23:06 |
| tinwhiskers | I bet with all the other data google has on you they can easily de-anonymise it | 23:07 |
| l0ndoner | The App will start out as a temporary measure.. then you wont be able to go shopping without it travel without it | 23:07 |
| tinwhiskers | but once this is done and dusted there won't be any reason to keep the app on your phone | 23:07 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <mefistofeles "nixonix: real cases are thought "> Not true, we test a lot and our figures are quite reliable. | 23:07 |
| mefistofeles | also, the app is pretty secure if done right | 23:07 |
| mefistofeles | https://bluetrace.io/ | 23:08 |
| eaxomar | sternenmusik do you test among random, subclinical people? | 23:08 |
| mefistofeles | that's the one from Singapore, which is released in the open and as far as I can tell, everybody else is doing the same thing | 23:08 |
| tinwhiskers | eaxomar: they did in iceland, and several german towns so we do have some decent data | 23:08 |
| eaxomar | interesting. can you be more precise? I'd love to read on this | 23:09 |
| euod[m] | tinwhiskers: maybe don't make that sort of statement until you've actually read the protocol :) | 23:09 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <eaxomar "sternenmusik do you test among r"> This study is not completed yet, but it is ongoing. | 23:09 |
| eaxomar | and you have access to it? | 23:09 |
| tinwhiskers | atm we can fairly safely say that the number of asymptomatic cases compared to symptomatic cases is well under 10 times (closer to 2 times) | 23:10 |
| l0ndoner | sorry I bought this up but I am really intrested in the privacy and goverment and travel | 23:10 |
| eaxomar | tinwhiskers how did we come to that conclusion? | 23:11 |
| tinwhiskers | by random testing | 23:11 |
| eaxomar | And where can i read on this? | 23:11 |
| nixonix | sternenmusik[m]: when you quoted above, my nick was left there, but those words were not mine | 23:11 |
| tinwhiskers | well, the iceland stuff is readily available just a google search away | 23:11 |
| tinwhiskers | you shouldn't have any problems digging up the german town tests either | 23:12 |
| eaxomar | l0ndoner We didn't roll back any post 911 privacy invading travel restrictions, so it's a safe bet those would stick also | 23:12 |
| tinwhiskers | eaxomar: my internet is very broken right now so I can't actually load any of the papers, but see https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/01/europe/iceland-testing-coronavirus-intl/index.html for a start | 23:20 |
| tinwhiskers | the original work out of china that reports a very high occurence of asymptomatic cases (yes 18% is high) https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.16.20037259v1 | 23:21 |
| eaxomar | thanks yes i found a lot of press coverage of the subject, but having a hard time finding the original source. i'm not that good at google i'm afraid | 23:21 |
| l0ndoner | https://ibb.co/7VpkZTt <<< --- My thought for the day | 23:23 |
| mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: I think I've seen estimates of 30-50% of asymptomatic | 23:24 |
| mefistofeles | considering that there's of course a tendency towards testing the symptomatic ones | 23:25 |
| l0ndoner | mefistofeles: UK thinking more like 80% but to be honest I'm not sure UK knows what the hell its dealing with | 23:26 |
| sternenmusik[m] | I know people who have been to China in January came home real sick and they are not registered at all, never went to a doctor. | 23:26 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, wait, how is 18% high? numbers on this are getting me so confused. there's people who say it's 10x, others, like you, just said it probably isn't more than 2x, but now it's 18%... and that's high?! | 23:28 |
| tinwhiskers | It's worth noting that the ratio of symptomatic:asymptomatic is different from asymtomatic:confirmed. The latter is affected by testing practices in any given country as is the "dark figure" discussed in this paper: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/340363740_Investigating_the_dark_figure_of_COVID-19_cases_in_Austria_Borrowing_from_the_deCODE_Genetics_study_in_Iceland They find actual cases of infection may be 9 times that of | 23:28 |
| tinwhiskers | confirmed cases in Austria, for example | 23:28 |
| LjL | or is it that 18% of the people who were returning from Wuhan tested positive without having symptoms | 23:29 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: 18% was considered a high number when we went into this | 23:29 |
| LjL | because that would mean something else entirely | 23:29 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: oh, wait, yeah, one thing is estimate and the other is actually tested, Germany has something like 30% for the actual tests of asymptomatic positives | 23:29 |
| mefistofeles | this is in the NY times germany exception article, iirc | 23:29 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: although 18% *was* considered high it's looking like it's quite a bit higher than that early estimate. | 23:32 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, well, i guess that 18% is *worryingly* high in term of "oh shit we won't be able to quarantine those who are infected because we won't know"... while on the other hand, 10x asymptomatic would be "whew, means most people are probably immune already" | 23:33 |
| LjL | or somewhere between those two extremes | 23:33 |
| tinwhiskers | I really only mentioned that one to put into context what it is when the epidemiologists consider the rate of asymptomatic cases to be high. Before this event 50% or even 80% of cases being asymtomatic would be considered extremely high. | 23:33 |
| tinwhiskers | which further goes to illustrate that those people who claim that the virus has quietly spread through 90% of the population are just so many orders of magnitude from being close to the reality it's not remotely funny. | 23:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:31 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Nursing homes see surge in deaths, Italy daily death toll falls to lowest in weeks → https://is.gd/1gWrcT | 23:37 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <mefistofeles "LjL: oh, wait, yeah, one thing i"> I cant believe this. Everyone I know or have heard of from Personal sources has had symptoms. | 23:37 |
| LjL | sternenmusik[m], and how, pray tell, would you have heard of if they had had no symptoms? | 23:38 |
| tinwhiskers | sternenmusik[m]: yes, we get a lot of hypochondriacs in here too. It's human nature. | 23:38 |
| tinwhiskers | That's why I roll my eyes every time someone says they think they have had it. Sure, *some* of them might have had it. | 23:38 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i don't roll my eyes so much because i've also heard of too many stories where people with symptoms were (repeatedly) told to just stay home by paramedics, until eventually when they were brought to hospital it was too late. | 23:40 |
| LjL | if the system is failing you cannot expect people not to "fail" to at least some extent too | 23:40 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <Brainstorm "New from CNBC Health at 21:31 UT"> Ok course, even a infection with low virus concentration is highly risky for the elderly... | 23:41 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: fair | 23:41 |
| LjL | now he replies to the bot too | 23:42 |
| tinwhiskers | most of the people in here are the ones saying they had a cough but got over it and think they had covid, not that are currently suffering extreme symptoms and can't get tested. | 23:42 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, that's not how hypochondriacs behave either, though | 23:43 |
| _abc_ | What's this about a Los Alamos Labs study saying each sars-cov2 carrier may have infected 5.7 people. | 23:43 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <LjL "now he replies to the bot too"> 😁 | 23:43 |
| _abc_ | Based on Wuhan data. | 23:43 |
| LjL | "i had a cough, now i'm fine, no problem, but hey i bet it was COVID" ← not a hypochondriac's behavior | 23:43 |
| tinwhiskers | then whatever term you use to describe those people will be fine | 23:43 |
| _abc_ | And that leads to 82% needed to be immune to stop the spread. | 23:43 |
| stinkpot | i suspect it's based on mean free path analysis _abc_ | 23:44 |
| _abc_ | https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/7/20-0282_article | 23:45 |
| stinkpot | they let carriers walk through a room and see how far the virus splatters when they cough or breathe | 23:45 |
| l0ndoner | yea can be meters | 23:45 |
| l0ndoner | I was like wow | 23:45 |
| _abc_ | stinkpot: no | 23:46 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, well, i'm a hypochondriac. it causes panic attacks, it is not controllable, and so i don't like having eyes rolled at, and i don't think i've had COVID, but if i started having symptoms, well that's the thing that worries me the most after my parents getting it, because i don't know how my brain would start reacting. also every hypochondriac knows that when you roll your eyes you may damage your eye muscles. | 23:46 |
| stinkpot | they do some math after they sample how far away from the person the virus was found | 23:46 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 23:46 |
| stinkpot | _abc_ so like if the virus was found 2 meters away from the person, that equates to an R0 of let's say 2.3, and if the virus was found 5 meters away that may equate to, say, 5.5 | 23:47 |
| tinwhiskers | well, I don't have another term to describe people who tend to think they have or have had a disease when in fact they didn't have it. | 23:47 |
| stinkpot | that's what i suspect _abc_ | 23:47 |
| _abc_ | stinkpot: has nothing to do with distances | 23:47 |
| stinkpot | why wouldn't it? | 23:47 |
| stinkpot | the virus spreads by air travel | 23:47 |
| _abc_ | R0 covers all spreading modes | 23:47 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, there's probably a term but which is about the cognitive bias itself, i don't think it is recognized as a condition because it doesn't need to be | 23:47 |
| stinkpot | the dominant spreading mode when R0 is large is by air | 23:48 |
| tinwhiskers | let's just call it a trend rather than a condition | 23:48 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i should keep a list of cognitive biases somewhere because i cannot remember their names | 23:48 |
| stinkpot | that's interesting ljl | 23:48 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, in fact i have an app that's a list of something related, but i cannot remember the name of the related thing. | 23:48 |
| LjL | so, i cannot find the app | 23:49 |
| LjL | even though i believe i have it installed | 23:49 |
| l0ndoner | some person was arrested for licking food and putting it back on the shelf | 23:49 |
| tinwhiskers | This is the benefit of having an old phone. I simply can't install enough apps to not find them :-) | 23:49 |
| LjL | oh, i was thinking of logical fallacies | 23:49 |
| tinwhiskers | wikipedia has a good list | 23:50 |
| stinkpot | lol ljl | 23:50 |
| tinwhiskers | I don't disagree with what you're saying. A cognitive bias would explain the trend | 23:51 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, problem is if you don't remember the name for one, those list won't help much. i need something where i can input, in some ways, characteristics of the logical fallacy (of cognitive bias) i am looking for. google is not very effective for that | 23:51 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: yeah, you need to read them all each time :-( | 23:51 |
| tinwhiskers | and the list is not small | 23:51 |
| LjL | %fdroid logical defense | 23:51 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: no application with that name was found! | 23:51 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Last time I checked, not all indexes could be downloaded! | 23:51 |
| mefistofeles | mortality greater than 50% for patients in ventilators in NYC (from TWIV) | 23:51 |
| LjL | Brainstorm, nonsense, i just installed it | 23:51 |
| LjL | oh | 23:51 |
| LjL | %fdroid logical defence | 23:51 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Logical Defence 1.5.1 (za.co.lukestonehm.logicaldefence) in https://f-droid.org/repo: Prepare to battle against the sophists of the world with this beautiful app. - updated 2017-04-23, see https://github.com/LukeStonehm/LogicalDefence | 23:51 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Last time I checked, not all indexes could be downloaded! | 23:51 |
| LjL | stupid english | 23:51 |
| LjL | not updated in... a while, though | 23:52 |
| LjL | it's not a very complete or very useful app tbh | 23:52 |
| l0ndoner_aweh | I'm off nice chatting to you all | 23:55 |
| stinkpot | can you describe the nature of the cognitive bias you might be looking for ljl? i am curious now | 23:56 |
| tinwhiskers | Kinda like this, but not really: Cyberchondria, otherwise known as compucondria, is the unfounded escalation of concerns about common symptomology based on review of search results and literature online.[1][2] Articles in popular media position cyberchondria anywhere from temporary neurotic excess to adjunct hypochondria. Cyberchondria is a growing concern among many healthcare practitioners as patients can now research any and all | 23:56 |
| tinwhiskers | symptoms of a rare disease, illness or condition, and manifest a state of medical anxiety | 23:56 |
| mefistofeles | "we think that 99% of people exposed to this virus are gonna be ok" from NYC doctor | 23:56 |
| stinkpot | what's your point mefistofeles. a que viene eso? | 23:57 |
| tinwhiskers | I suppose he's right. | 23:57 |
| mefistofeles | stinkpot: nothing in special | 23:57 |
| sternenmusik[m] | <mefistofeles ""we think that 99% of people exp"> Define "Ok". | 23:58 |
| stinkpot | are you saying "mortality greater than 50% for patients in ventilators in NYC" doesn't jive with "we think that 99% of people exposed to this virus are gonna be ok"? | 23:58 |
| tinwhiskers | ok = not dead | 23:58 |
| stinkpot | lol compuchondria | 23:58 |
| mefistofeles | sternenmusik[m]: basically don't die, but of course some could end up with serious repercusions | 23:58 |
| LjL | stinkpot, well the bias would be along the lines of "if you have this disease then you have these symptoms, and, heck, i have those symptoms, so i have the disease". except those are symptoms of many other things. so they are turning an "if" relation into an "iff" one | 23:58 |
| mefistofeles | stinkpot: no, I'm not saying that | 23:58 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, "99% of people exposed to this virus are gonna be okay after a scary hospital stay in many cases and probably infection of people near them that will result in fear, pain, and possibly death" | 23:59 |
| LjL | but yeah | 23:59 |
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