ubLIX | trump's output is not for you, it is for his base; if every progressive on the planet stopped watching trump, his intended message would still reach his base, but unalloyed. trump is a predator. one watches predators | 00:05 |
---|---|---|
sternenmusik[m] | <pyna "for the first time in my adult l"> ... looked into the mirror today and had to think of Eddie Hearn 😁😂 | 00:05 |
pyna | the base is already lost, doodz are in it. all we can do is flatten the curve, but it's worth it | 00:08 |
ubLIX | still necessary to know what he intends, and his navigation of his base is signal | 00:09 |
\n3p\ | Donald Trunp is the best President of USA since Abraham Lincoln and MSM is loosing | 00:14 |
ubLIX | is that sarcasm, \n3p\? | 00:16 |
\n3p\ | ubLIX, Look at the ratings. Clowns News Network is out the TOP 20 shows | 00:17 |
LjL | <CarlSagan_> [Ars Technica - Science] New COVID-19 dashboard just for the US offers rich, county-level data https://arstechnica.com/?p=1668009 2020-04-13T21:55:44 (spec) | 00:20 |
LjL | also maybe tinwhiskers although i doubt you want to change data source again lol | 00:21 |
\n3p\ | ubLIX, no sarcasm. Just NUMBERS https://imgur.com/drZdTnx | 00:22 |
ubLIX | i was referring to your finding it possible to compare Trump favourably to Lincoln | 00:24 |
Butterfly^ | https://i.imgur.com/qhvNsIM.mp4 sound on | 00:24 |
LjL | suaefar[m], i don't know what the other graph is doing but good job on improving this every time | 00:24 |
\n3p\ | ubLIX, The same. Look at the economy of US before COVID-19. Trump against DNC, RNC and MSM did a GREAT WORK | 00:25 |
LjL | correlation is not causation | 00:25 |
ubLIX | how's the economy doing now? | 00:26 |
ubLIX | has Trump fired Fauci yet? | 00:26 |
\n3p\ | What country is doing well now? | 00:26 |
suaefar[m] | @LjL The other one is showing the inverse slope of the polynomial fit (i.e. days to double the number of the deceased) on the x-axis and the curvature relative to the slope, (i.e. in how many days the slope would be zero if the trend continued) | 00:27 |
ubLIX | Taiwan. Singapore. | 00:27 |
stinkpot | trump fire fauci? | 00:28 |
ubLIX | stinkpot: not yet that I know of, but tweets about it | 00:28 |
stinkpot | that would be disastrous to his image | 00:28 |
suaefar[m] | High value on x-axis means slow exponential growth, low values indicate fast exponential growth. High value on y-axis means exponential growth is stable, low values mean exponential growth is slowing down (not exponential anymore) | 00:29 |
\n3p\ | US economy will rebound fast for 3QT. And Trump will be reelected even with votes from Bernie Bros. And that's all what i have to say about the topic because we are digressing | 00:29 |
\n3p\ | Sorry for talking politics here. | 00:30 |
lf94 | they are letting construction and miners back to work here in quebec | 00:31 |
lf94 | arent these people vulnerable? | 00:31 |
lf94 | arent their lungs already messed up ?... | 00:32 |
lf94 | sounds like a death sentence to some of them | 00:32 |
stinkpot | i don't think so \n3p\ | 00:32 |
LjL | suaefar[m], okay that description is clearer for me, i am not great at maths | 00:36 |
LjL | %cases japan | 00:36 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Japan, there are 7370 cases (0.0% of the population) and 130 deaths (1.8% of cases) as of a minute ago. 77381 tests were performed (9.5% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.6% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 14.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Japan for time series data. | 00:36 |
LjL | japan is quietly exponential | 00:37 |
suaefar[m] | I experimented to get a better interpretation of the fitting parameter values. I can make the analysis for Japan. | 00:37 |
LjL | suaefar[m], what meaning would you give to being on one side or the other of the diagonal? | 00:38 |
LjL | suaefar[m], japan probably has too few deaths for your graphs to be meaningful, you'd have to do it on cases | 00:39 |
suaefar[m] | LjL: The lower right one is probably okay, the upper left one is bad | 00:39 |
LjL | okay, that's more or less what i was thinking | 00:39 |
LjL | just checking cause my brain is in power saving mode | 00:39 |
suaefar[m] | Yes, looks very much exponential | 00:41 |
suaefar[m] | I clip the curvature to 50, its probably much higher, but it does not matter... the scope of the analysis is much less than 50 days. | 00:42 |
stinkpot | take more vitamin D ljl. i'm concerned you're whole country is deficient in Vit-D | 00:44 |
LjL | suaefar[m], maybe you could make this into a matrix bot that makes the graph on demand for one or more countries. others have questioned the validity of your polynomial fit but honestly i think you're just trying to do something useful to understand things, which is fine in my book... | 00:44 |
stinkpot | japanese eat tons of it through oily fish | 00:44 |
LjL | stinkpot, it makes no sense to take more than the recommended daily intake... | 00:44 |
stinkpot | ok that's good enough | 00:44 |
suaefar[m] | @LjL That would probably need more polishing. Is there a starter on how to build a matrix bot? | 00:46 |
LjL | suaefar[m], probably, but it would depend on the programming language too | 00:46 |
LjL | suaefar[m], anyway Brainstorm can operate over Matrix, so if i could do it, it's probably easy ;) | 00:46 |
LjL | there's an example here https://github.com/shawnanastasio/python-matrix-bot-api/blob/master/example_bot.py | 00:48 |
Butterfly^ | https://i.imgur.com/bsFG4jf.jpg Pastor gets the biggest dosage of karma | 00:49 |
ubLIX | Butterfly^: -vox for anything in the ballpark of a meme, if it's all the same to you | 00:50 |
Butterfly^ | it's news though | 00:51 |
Butterfly^ | covid related | 00:51 |
ubLIX | sure, but that presentation isn't super tasteful | 00:52 |
Butterfly^ | spreading corona to 100's or 1000's of people isn't tasteful either | 00:52 |
Butterfly^ | which this pastor willingly did | 00:52 |
ubLIX | look, all i'm saying is vengeful karma is not this channel's tone | 00:53 |
lf94 | *pastor sneezes in holy water* may god be with you! *throws the holy water onto people* | 00:53 |
lf94 | This is some cartoon-level early 2000s comedy | 00:53 |
lf94 | Boondocks level | 00:53 |
suaefar[m] | LjL: Would probably be possible to just call the Octave Script from Python and then upload the image. But now I have to sleep. The code and my standard analysis is available on GitHub: https://github.com/suaefar/covid-19-deceased-prediction | 00:54 |
LjL | suaefar[m], okay, i may have a look later. good night | 00:59 |
Butterfly^ | https://www.pscp.tv/w/1rmGPAmonqdJN?mode=couch white house live press breiefing | 00:59 |
stinkpot | lol boondocks | 01:01 |
python476 | I disagree with statistics 100% of the time | 01:09 |
\n3p\ | python476, lol with 99% of confidence intervals. | 01:12 |
bin_bash | and a standard deviation of 0 | 01:12 |
\n3p\ | lol | 01:13 |
SilverZ | %data Lebanon | 01:18 |
Brainstorm | SilverZ: In all areas, Lebanon, there are 632 cases (0.0% of the population) and 20 deaths (3.2% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 15408 tests were performed (4.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 19.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lebanon for time series data. | 01:18 |
Philippe[m] | !covid lebanon | 01:18 |
CoronaBot | Lebanon: Global rank: #88, cases: 632 (+2), fatalities: 20, active cases: 532, total recovered: 80, in a serious condition: 34. Mortality: 3.16%, case fatality rate: 20.00%, cases/1M: 93.0, deaths/1M: 3.0. Case rate: 11/24h, death rate: 0/24h. Tests: 15,408, tests/1M: 2,257. | 01:18 |
python476 | \n3p\: bin_bash ^_____^ | 01:19 |
python476 | I'm proud of that one, it's like the liar's paradox, statistic style | 01:20 |
SilverZ | why ? | 01:20 |
python476 | isn't it ? | 01:21 |
SilverZ | why is it a lie | 01:22 |
python476 | it's not a lie | 01:22 |
python476 | disagreeing with all statistics by using a statistical statement | 01:23 |
ynhof[m] | Yep used to hear that one a lot back in school | 01:24 |
python476 | damn | 01:26 |
DocScrutinizer05 | RKI (corona.rki.de) raw data processing: https://termbin.com/ltvdf | 01:35 |
DocScrutinizer05 | https://i.imgur.com/c1VV46z.png | 01:36 |
linext | how's the curve doing? | 01:59 |
python476 | linext: the official one or the real one ? | 02:03 |
python476 | I cannot look at graphs anymore | 02:03 |
python476 | I have no idea 1) who's testing what, 2) who's distorting data to the point lying, 3) who cannot even count | 02:03 |
linext | python476, seems like it went down a little today | 02:05 |
linext | at least in new jersey, usa | 02:05 |
linext | yesterday was 3699 new cases, today is 2734 | 02:06 |
pyna | i wonder how good various market prediction algorithms are at covid soothsaying | 02:12 |
pyna | not cause it's a good tack to take, just cause i bet every trader-with-an-algorithm is working on it, cause you do what you know | 02:14 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Virginia pastor who defiantly held church service dies of coronavirus (10704 votes) | https://redd.it/g0rbav | 02:18 |
Chromanin | %data Lebanon | 03:07 |
Brainstorm | Chromanin: In all areas, Lebanon, there are 632 cases (0.0% of the population) and 20 deaths (3.2% of cases) as of a minute ago. 15408 tests were performed (4.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 19.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lebanon for time series data. | 03:07 |
livebrain | %data portugal | 03:31 |
Brainstorm | livebrain: In all areas, Portugal, there are 16934 cases (0.2% of the population) and 535 deaths (3.2% of cases) as of 11 minutes ago. 182707 tests were performed (9.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Portugal for time series data. | 03:31 |
DocScrutinizer05 | python476: you should like `wget https://termbin.com/9cgcu -O s.sh && chmod +x s.sh && wget https://opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/dd4580c810204019a7b8eb3e0b329dd6_0.csv -O - | ./s.sh ` then ;-) | 04:11 |
DocScrutinizer05 | unlike RKI dashboard https://i.imgur.com/X616SHU.png my s.sh *can* count, and the .csv is german RKI raw data which is unlikely to be massively tampered | 04:13 |
DocScrutinizer05 | https://i.imgur.com/1hqucxW.png | 04:14 |
DocScrutinizer05 | showing new-cases/day | 04:14 |
ryouma | what is the latest on steroid inhalers for those who have lung issues before getting covid? is it looking like they should be taken at normal doses? for both phases of covid? (phase 1 being invasion and phase 2 being cytokine storm.) i just paid 170 usd for an inhaler (oh say can you see). cdc says just keep taking but provides nodetails and i don't trust them more than i can throw them. | 04:18 |
LjL | ryouma, wtf, 170 bucks for an inhaler?! | 04:20 |
LjL | what are you inhaling, gold? | 04:21 |
LjL | ryouma, i don't think cytokine storm is something to be taken for granted... it may just not happen | 04:21 |
DocScrutinizer05 | 170 bucks for a corticosteroid spray? | 04:21 |
ryouma | LjL: that is WITH insurance | 04:22 |
DocScrutinizer05 | anyway take your cortisone as your lung will be stronger when not suffering inflamatory effects | 04:22 |
LjL | ryouma, good god | 04:22 |
LjL | really what's in it? | 04:22 |
ryouma | fluticasone or something. just a steroid and a i-hope-not-bad-for-you supposedly-non-ozone-destroying propellant. which supposedly lasts a month. | 04:23 |
LjL | i'm unable to answer your question but note to self: never get sick in america | 04:24 |
ryouma | i got it because i am wheezing a lot and was putting up with it because i didn't want to ask my doctor for samples and didn't want to pay 170 usd. for many months. then i asked my doctor through his office and ... dunno if it translated well, or dunno if it would be a hindrance for me to use up the samples. so just ordered. but it is !@#$ expensive. | 04:25 |
ryouma | yes that is about it | 04:25 |
train1 | ryouma: just the magic of the market at work | 04:26 |
swift110 | hmm | 04:26 |
LjL | ryouma, i think you should focus most of your energies on... not getting covid | 04:26 |
LjL | i know it's pretty hard | 04:26 |
ryouma | everything else is also. except clonazepam is like a few dollars. but they force you to go through bureaucratic hoops to get that one. | 04:26 |
LjL | but you know the condition you're in, i don't think i need to say more | 04:26 |
ryouma | LjL: whether i get it depends on whether my carer gets it | 04:27 |
LjL | ryouma, i just swallowed 5 drops of it because i was feeling terribad from anxiety | 04:27 |
LjL | i know | 04:27 |
LjL | and i know it's hard to convince her | 04:27 |
ryouma | it is not for anxiety. it doesn't work for that for me. it just is for sleep. | 04:27 |
LjL | but what i'm saying is... if you do get it, i suspect inhaler or no inhaler will make very little difference | 04:27 |
LjL | ryouma, nothing seems to work for sleep for me, except, at some point. Zyrtec (an antihistamine, 1.5-ish generation) | 04:28 |
ryouma | my thinkin is get my lungs in better shape now | 04:28 |
LjL | that's the brandname, i forget the active principle's name | 04:28 |
ryouma | i take 3 cetirizine per day | 04:28 |
ryouma | that is zyrtec | 04:28 |
ryouma | i thuoght it was 2nd generation but yes it hslpes slightly for sleep | 04:28 |
LjL | ah yeah it is | 04:28 |
train1 | probably makes you drowsy | 04:28 |
LjL | ryouma, yes it is technically second generation, but other second generation antihistamines do nothing about sleep for me | 04:29 |
LjL | train1, it made me drowsy in a godo way. other things made me stay sleepy all day | 04:29 |
LjL | when it worked, Zyrtec would just give me sound, calm sleep | 04:29 |
LjL | but now i'm taking other things and i don't think my body even notices a difference with Zyrtec anymore | 04:29 |
DocScrutinizer05 | anyway take your cortisone as your lung will be stronger when not suffering inflamatory effects | 04:30 |
LjL | ryouma, i may have asked already since i'm a broken record on some things: do you have a pulse oximeter? | 04:30 |
ryouma | yes | 04:31 |
LjL | finally, someone who says yes | 04:31 |
LjL | but i guess most people normally don't need one | 04:31 |
LjL | still, in normal time, you can get one for like €15 or even less | 04:31 |
ryouma | it has a plethysmograph, which i do not know what to do to read it. it has blue light which is very bery bad for me at night but i didn't have energy to swap it for a red one. it seems highish quality. it has no alarms. so if i do ont breathe while sleeping it iwll not warn me. | 04:32 |
LjL | seems like something one should have | 04:32 |
ryouma | mine was 40 usd or so | 04:32 |
LjL | ryouma, mine was close to that, too, but mainly because it has recording and you can upload the data to a computer via USB | 04:32 |
ryouma | i was going to swap it fora red one with an alarm but did not have the health resources to look it up, decide, ask for the order to be made | 04:32 |
LjL | 20 or 25 USD you could get decent enough things, with no connectivity | 04:33 |
LjL | ryouma, well, forget about it now, they'll all out of stock, or stupidly expensive | 04:33 |
ryouma | LjL: that would be perfect, if it workd for linux. i did not notice any of those on amazon. | 04:33 |
ryouma | yeah i figured i had to get it quickly | 04:33 |
LjL | ryouma, it does work for linux although the program i tried, i failed, but someone in ##science was more stubborn and got it to work | 04:33 |
DocScrutinizer05 | or, you know, tack your finger to sensor of a SG Note9 ;-P | 04:34 |
ryouma | tell me the model and make in case everything normalizes and i can get it for 30usd? | 04:34 |
LjL | ryouma, the brand is Contec (but they make ones without the USB too) | 04:34 |
LjL | the model is erm | 04:34 |
DocScrutinizer05 | though mine never shows <96% SpO2 | 04:34 |
LjL | 50D+... something like that | 04:34 |
LjL | DocScrutinizer05, i've had 95 and 94% today. i'm not sure if the pulse oximeter is inaccurate, or i have something slightly wrong | 04:34 |
ryouma | mine varies between like 91 and 97 spo2 | 04:34 |
LjL | at other ties it's 98-99% | 04:34 |
ryouma | in the morning | 04:34 |
ryouma | i mean when i wake up which is like 1am | 04:35 |
ryouma | 1pm* | 04:35 |
LjL | 91% is bad for a healthy person | 04:35 |
ryouma | huh | 04:35 |
ryouma | it varies over a short span of time i think | 04:35 |
kPa | i would expect that 91% would make you not a healthy person | 04:35 |
ryouma | the plethysmograph is fun to look at but idk what it means. maybe a tcm practitioner would know. :] | 04:36 |
LjL | ryouma, Contect CMD 50D+, but, there are also a few submodels of it, one of them has a "special" active USB cable, and if you lose that cable you're fucked. i don't know how to figure out which version you're getting | 04:36 |
ryouma | well the supposedly efficient market does not seem to be efficient in tp so idk why it would be in oximeters, but just in case. thanks. | 04:37 |
LjL | ryouma, this forum http://www.cpaptalk.com/search.php?keywords=Contec talks about pulse oximeters a lot, mainly ones that can record a full night's sleep | 04:37 |
ryouma | should vary by time of day i think | 04:37 |
LjL | ryouma, the graph is mainly useful for making sure it's getting a good reading of your pulse | 04:37 |
LjL | so, to determine whether the numbers are valid | 04:37 |
ryouma | aha. wish i had had the cognitive capacity to find and check out that forum | 04:38 |
LjL | if it starts looking flat, you're moved the finger, and the numbers may be off | 04:38 |
LjL | ryouma, it's a forum for people with sleep apnea who use CPAP machines basically | 04:38 |
ryouma | it has interesting patterns though, which vary, but do ont correlate diwh anthing subjective or objective that i noticed | 04:38 |
LjL | yeah they do vary | 04:39 |
ryouma | i am tring to get a cpap. i will get a recording oximeter to strap on in a month or two, supposedly. | 04:39 |
LjL | somtimes i get a smaller peak after the main peak, sometimes i don't | 04:39 |
LjL | i think the double peak tends to happen when my pulse is higher | 04:39 |
LjL | ryouma, well, the people on this forum use a software (i forget the name now, remind to ask the ##science person) that is open source and *combines* the CPAP readings with the pulse oximeter readings | 04:40 |
ryouma | i wish the device could at least record like 24h of spo2 | 04:40 |
LjL | so you can figure out all that happened during the night | 04:40 |
ryouma | you mean like bipap activations or something? | 04:40 |
ryouma | does cpap read? | 04:40 |
LjL | ryouma, there is a once-cheap model that could record 8 hours but without a computer connection. so you'd have to look at the numbers on the tiny screen, but... it was cheaper than the computer-connected ones | 04:40 |
LjL | ryouma, i am not sure what data the CPAP provides, since i've never had one and it wasn't what i was interested in, but apparently they do provide data | 04:41 |
LjL | might depend on the CPAP type too | 04:41 |
LjL | some of them have features like only starting to push air if they detect you aren't breathing | 04:41 |
LjL | things like that, but i don't know really | 04:41 |
LjL | some detect your breathing rate, and stop pushing air when you're exhaling, which is otherwise uncomfortable | 04:42 |
LjL | i'll sleep now | 04:42 |
LjL | best of luck ryouma, i'll try to keep an eye on amazon.com if i spot the odd Prime oximeter | 04:43 |
LjL | i did manage to buy an oxygen concentrator when they had all been out of stock for a while | 04:43 |
ryouma | LjL: those are called bipap | 04:43 |
LjL | then one appeared, and i grabbed them | 04:43 |
ryouma | thanks | 04:43 |
LjL | and then it was gone already | 04:43 |
LjL | ryouma, well yeah but "CPAP" is a term people on that forum use generically. then i know the actual techniques have different names, but you'll still find most info with cpap as a keyword generally | 04:44 |
ryouma | if your father has issues at night then 2 lpm by cannula could help, dunno if it will help with covid but it could get him in better shape ma7ybe | 04:44 |
ryouma | or 3lpm or even more in principle | 04:44 |
ryouma | yeah that makes sense | 04:44 |
LjL | ryouma, he doesn't have issues at night for now, except bouts of coughing, and... well perhaps he could have sleep apnea but we don't really know (he has some small lesions in his brain that were brushed off as "small TIAs, normal for your age") | 04:45 |
LjL | ryouma, the oxygen concentrator is not medical grade, so it can only push 90% at 2 lpm, then it get up to 9 lpm but that's at just 30% | 04:45 |
LjL | it's still the most powerful i've ever seen among the amazon ones though | 04:45 |
ryouma | 3lpm with that concentrator might not be bad though. | 04:45 |
LjL | yeah i think he could be helpful if he gets some "mild" covid | 04:46 |
LjL | because it'd still be "mild" but for a 75yo smoker | 04:46 |
LjL | so, not really mild | 04:46 |
ryouma | i meant for sleep but maybe for mild covid too | 04:46 |
LjL | well i don't think i can convince him to sleep with oxygen, i should first convince him to take a night's reading with the pulse ox | 04:47 |
LjL | which is admittedly a bit of a chore to wear | 04:47 |
LjL | the others the CPAP people prefer are like bracelets with a prong for your finger | 04:47 |
LjL | instead these cheap ones are everything dangling from your finger | 04:47 |
LjL | which is heavy, and sort of big | 04:47 |
LjL | usually two AAA batteries in them | 04:47 |
LjL | but they are the cheapest | 04:47 |
LjL | the ones with a wrist band are decidedly more expensive | 04:48 |
WoofWolfCrin | @search borneo trilogy | 04:48 |
WoofWolfCrin | wrong chat woops | 04:48 |
LjL | happens | 04:48 |
ryouma | i'm ok with the finger style just annoyed that i didn't switch the order to another i felt i could trust | 04:49 |
ryouma | but none of them taht i saw did any recording of spo2 at all | 04:49 |
ryouma | or itnerfaces | 04:49 |
LjL | well i'll show you what they are, but another day. no rush anyway since you won't be able to buy them for a while :\ | 04:50 |
ryouma | thanks. indeed. | 04:53 |
ryouma | i can't even get a beard trimmer from amazon. and i have nothing to trim my beard with at all. idk what they DO carry now. | 04:54 |
ryouma | oops i mean shave it off with. i used to use the pop up thingy on my razor. | 04:55 |
LjL | <CarlSagan_> [Ars Technica - Science] Trump claims “total authority” to override governors, force states to reopen https://arstechnica.com/?p=1668107 2020-04-14T02:25:58 | 04:57 |
LjL | Spec, ↑ sounds like a good way to break up the US worse than the EU | 04:57 |
LjL | ryouma, yeah i find the whole non-essential items thing very perplexing. they carry a LOT of items i don't consider essential, and very few of the ones i do | 04:58 |
ryouma | i was seriously concerned about a possible civil war or other issue in the us before the pandemic. now it sounds like actors are ... practically trying to start one? | 05:01 |
ryouma | somebody said election map looke4d like a civil war map. which, if ttrue and not a coincidence, is disturbing. | 05:03 |
ryouma | maybe the supreme court will intervene | 05:03 |
train1 | constitution really isn't convenient anymore https://youtu.be/cNO18dRip-U supreme court ultra white right wing | 05:07 |
train1 | federalist society anti abortion | 05:08 |
ryouma | This video is unavailable. | 05:08 |
ryouma | i don't watch stuff much. text works better for me. | 05:08 |
ryouma | when i can read taht is | 05:08 |
train1 | on contact yt chris hedges if your interested | 05:09 |
train1 | might get labeled 'fake' since it's RT lol | 05:10 |
ryouma | you are speaking in tongues to me. idk such things or figures. unless rt is that russian news thingie. | 05:11 |
train1 | since us 'news' has normalized passivity RT has a few guests worth listening to | 05:12 |
train1 | some are crazies, some are very lucid | 05:13 |
ryouma | i always understood the eu to be embryonic and not at all like the us, as in, if you live in delaware, you could go to seattle and still have a similar culture and lifestyle and such. (not to mention language.) | 05:18 |
ryouma | but the virus is ... weakening the eu? | 05:18 |
kPa | the virus is weakening everything | 05:22 |
Flaviker | !v | 07:07 |
rajrajraj | btw lockdown extended in india till may 3rd | 08:08 |
RahiAkherajot[m] | Prime Minister of India speaks | 08:52 |
Urchin | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiZO2J5oHuQ | 09:39 |
jacklsw | quiet today | 10:03 |
mefistofeles | jacklsw: indeed | 10:17 |
katsuragi | Hello | 10:27 |
Borkr | What happened? | 10:40 |
jacklsw | probably those connecting from matrix | 10:42 |
\n3p\ | LOL mass killed ~ 400 matrix "users" | 10:48 |
\n3p\ | under 200 users in the room now | 10:50 |
_io_ | holy shit. | 10:52 |
okz | it's beginning :-) | 10:56 |
irc_seiken | It's spreading, rather | 11:01 |
mefistofeles | Borkr: yes, matrix failing | 11:01 |
mefistofeles | it happens from time to time | 11:01 |
mefistofeles | and I mean that literally, the matrix servers | 11:01 |
mefistofeles | :P | 11:01 |
yuriwho | heh | 11:04 |
yuriwho | the matrix people see a little cultish anyway | 11:05 |
yuriwho | seem | 11:05 |
yuriwho | but we are like luddites to them I guess | 11:06 |
\n3p\ | Mexico + 35 deaths in past 24h total deaths reported 332. | 11:07 |
\n3p\ | wb matrix bots | 11:15 |
_io_ | Jesus. | 11:17 |
_io_ | why didn't this happen in the other room | 11:17 |
_io_ | like at all. | 11:18 |
ubLIX | which other room? | 11:18 |
q[m]2 | Uh, am I about to get kicked? | 11:18 |
SycophantFetish[ | ChanServ: is there a reason I'm being continually pinged for a DM? | 11:19 |
q[m]2 | Pretty sure it's a bot that sends DMs for updates about the freenode bridge | 11:19 |
ubLIX | SycophantFetish[: it's because the matrix bridge just killed and rejoined all the matrix users - when you join this channel chanserv PM's you an addition to the topic | 11:20 |
SycophantFetish[ | Roger that! Carry on | 11:20 |
_io_ | ubLIX: ##coronavirus | 11:20 |
ubLIX | _io_: ##coronavirus doesn't have a matrix bridge/doesn't allow matrix users, as far as i know | 11:21 |
_io_ | I find it really interesting that there are 300 users here but none of them are in the other channel about the same topic | 11:21 |
_io_ | channels don't need to specifically allow matrix users | 11:21 |
_io_ | are they all banned there? | 11:22 |
ubLIX | _io_: you do need permission to use the matrix bridge, generally on a per channel basis | 11:22 |
q[m]2 | Just tried, and on the Matrix side, #freenode_##coronavirus:matrix.org is invite-only | 11:23 |
_io_ | I have matrix user in my room I never did anything special to let him in. | 11:23 |
_io_ | nobody did. | 11:24 |
ubLIX | heh. the matrix version of this channel has >1000 users | 11:24 |
ubLIX | wonder why they're not all here | 11:24 |
ubLIX | dormant accounts, i guess | 11:24 |
Mr_Pink | yeesh. same underreporting in care facilities going on in the UK just like US https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11391723/coronavirus-hundreds-more-care-homes/ | 11:25 |
_io_ | I think Canada has that problem too. | 11:26 |
ubLIX | BBC version if you don't much like The Sun: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52275823 | 11:26 |
ubLIX | %title | 11:26 |
Brainstorm | ubLIX: From www.bbc.co.uk: Coronavirus: Older people being 'airbrushed' out of virus figures - BBC News | 11:26 |
mefistofeles | UK underreporting is big, indeed | 11:27 |
mefistofeles | but not only for old people | 11:27 |
SycophantFetish[ | That doesn't fit the narative though it's a big, huge, massive, terrible pandemic. | 11:27 |
mefistofeles | SycophantFetish[: what doesn't? | 11:28 |
SycophantFetish[ | Underreporting | 11:28 |
_io_ | I think around 15% of people are infected. | 11:28 |
mefistofeles | SycophantFetish[: I don't follow. Underreported in terms of confirmed cases is happening everywhere and it'sknown fact | 11:29 |
_io_ | I heard a doctor CNN say that his state tests women when they come in to give birth. and 15% are infected. | 11:29 |
SycophantFetish[ | Yet, most of the news media I see says we are all going to die. | 11:29 |
Mr_Pink | Some places like Florida are blatantly hiding it. | 11:29 |
mefistofeles | SycophantFetish[: well, stop watching crappy media | 11:29 |
SycophantFetish[ | Touche' | 11:29 |
mefistofeles | why would people think media was going to change now with this virus? ;) | 11:30 |
Mr_Pink | Using political influences to get the Miami Herald's lawyers to drop the FOIA case. | 11:30 |
ubLIX | SycophantFetish[: maybe stop reading The Sun :p | 11:30 |
SycophantFetish[ | lol | 11:30 |
mefistofeles | I'd try to avoid any UK media sources, tbh, those are the worst | 11:30 |
Mr_Pink | I never post The Sun because its a rag but it was direct quoting the head of that organization and it's 2:30am so piss off! ;P | 11:30 |
Mr_Pink | China just shut its border with Russia because they're getting a bunch of new cases from tem too. | 11:31 |
SycophantFetish[ | Maybe, have another pint then? I mean, it's only 2:30 :) Sun isn't up yet. | 11:31 |
SycophantFetish[ | I digress :) | 11:32 |
Mr_Pink | I've had 0 pints. I'm working and waiting for the baseball to start. | 11:32 |
mefistofeles | Mr_Pink: baseball? | 11:32 |
Mr_Pink | CPBL, played in Taiwan, had their season opener 2 days ago. 11 inning pitcher's duel! | 11:32 |
mefistofeles | Mr_Pink: Yes, most reintroductions of new cases in China re from USA and Europe | 11:32 |
mefistofeles | *are | 11:33 |
Mr_Pink | At 3:35am PT in about an hour the Brothers take on the Guardians and it's going to be broadcast online in English. | 11:33 |
Mr_Pink | They're playing in fan-less stadiums. | 11:33 |
mefistofeles | ok | 11:33 |
Mr_Pink | Their basketball is going as well. There's a game on right now actually but not in English. https://www.pscp.tv/w/1rmGPAmgDEDJN | 11:34 |
SycophantFetish[ | yawn it's been fun but take the fans out of the stadium and we might as well watch virtual ball. Just poked in to see what's all about here and now off to bed with me. Have fun watching ball. Avoid Rona. | 11:34 |
Mr_Pink | Virtual ball is happening as well. MLB Player's League, and the San Diego Padres broadcast virtual games every Friday at 5:30 with the actual team announcers calling the game as if it were real. | 11:35 |
Mr_Pink | There's tennis going on right now, but a bunch of Belarus and Russian nobodies. That's one of the easiest games to social distance haha | 11:36 |
ubLIX | mefistofeles: the financial times and the economist are hardly the worst 'news' outlets ever devised; both headquartered in London | 11:36 |
mefistofeles | how to make baseball more boring? Just remove the fans | 11:36 |
mefistofeles | :P | 11:36 |
Mr_Pink | The Rakuten Monkeys, part of the CPBL are adding robotic fans lmao | 11:36 |
Mr_Pink | https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/rakuten-monkeys-will-have-robot-mannequins-dressed-as-fans-when-2020-season-begins/ | 11:36 |
Mr_Pink | haha https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EU-UjJvUEAAGf9_?format=jpg&name=large | 11:36 |
steerio | nintendo wii style animated ones would be more fun | 11:37 |
Mr_Pink | I'd be down for that. Even with the games with no fans they still have 4 girls dancing on the dugout and drum-heavy music blasting throughout the stadium while the game is going on haha | 11:37 |
steerio | that must have a wierd potemkin village vibe to it | 11:39 |
steerio | *weird | 11:39 |
ubLIX | mefistofeles: there is also Prospect (UK headquartered), slightly centre-left, but given to realism: https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/ | 11:42 |
mefistofeles | ubLIX: the fact that you have to try that hard says I lot, but I get it, and I know there are some decent ones | 11:44 |
mefistofeles | which reminds me... | 11:44 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: John Conway, inventor of the Game of Life, has died of COVID-19 (10019 votes) | https://redd.it/g0v3v5 | 11:44 |
mefistofeles | Remember I posted some PNAS article yesterday? And I was suspecting it was a bit weird, to say the least. Apparently some people agree on this https://twitter.com/arambaut/status/1248394331737567234 | 11:45 |
ubLIX | mefistofeles: granted, none of the daily papers (save for the FT) and none of the daily TV news shows are.. uncomplicated in their slant | 11:45 |
\n3p\ | John Conway irony death | 11:46 |
\n3p\ | 49% want Italexit from EU https://www.ilgiornale.it/news/politica/sondaggio-tecn-italiano-su-due-vorrebbe-litalia-fuori-dallue-1853377.html | 11:49 |
mefistofeles | really crappy time for italians to be that "proud" | 11:55 |
sternenmusik[m] | <\n3p\ "49% want Italexit from EU https:"> Ciao. | 12:03 |
blkshp | Maybe after we could join together Britain and Italy and make EU2 | 12:05 |
\n3p\ | lol that is a possibility. Italy needs a new Lira. € is killing them | 12:07 |
\n3p\ | Trade after EU will continue because everybody needs it. UK-Gr depend each other | 12:08 |
sternenmusik[m] | <blkshp "Maybe after we could join togeth"> For sure not for you to decide. | 12:09 |
blkshp | No no, under this scenario, they have to have the pound and of course speak English at all times | 12:09 |
sternenmusik[m] | <\n3p\ "lol that is a possibility. Italy"> Evidence that the Euro is bad for anyone in the union? | 12:09 |
blkshp | One of the reasons we didn't take it in the first place. | 12:09 |
\n3p\ | Euro push salaries down in south Europe | 12:10 |
sternenmusik[m] | Really? | 12:11 |
sternenmusik[m] | The US pushes salaries down. | 12:11 |
dTal | is this covid-19 related? | 12:12 |
\n3p\ | One currency fits all is not good for Europe because countries lose they ability to adjust to drastic changes. | 12:12 |
sternenmusik[m] | The baddest currency is the Dollar. | 12:13 |
dTal | \n3p\: you can apply the same argument to the dollar with interesting results | 12:13 |
\n3p\ | Dollar is not the national currency of most countries in the world | 12:14 |
dTal | It covers a similar population with similar economic diversity | 12:14 |
\n3p\ | Dollar is the world's reserve currency. Not the currency for intranational trade, and salaries. You could devaluate your national currency against dollar and avoid a bigger economic crisis and massive unemployment | 12:16 |
dTal | There's nothing unique about the dollar | 12:17 |
\n3p\ | With € Italy will never reach full employment | 12:17 |
\n3p\ | All that was told 20 years ago. That is why UK never accepted € as their currency. EU was dead since the beginning | 12:19 |
dTal | I don't see why the inability of Italy to print euros is not exactly analogous to, say, Texas's inability to print dollars | 12:21 |
\n3p\ | Germans will never accept to work harder to rescue the rest of Europe | 12:21 |
dTal | why not? | 12:22 |
\n3p\ | Because they are not stupid commies | 12:22 |
dTal | "work harder" doesn't mean sweating in the sun, ploughing the fields anymore | 12:22 |
dTal | ...aaand there it is | 12:22 |
dTal | thank you for playing | 12:22 |
adventurer | https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-symptoms-foot-lesions-could-be-early-sign-of-infection/news-story/15e269fd37b5b9d30c30852dc7de9780 | 12:23 |
sternenmusik[m] | Italy would have been insolvent long ago without the loans from the European Central Bank (ECB) | 12:24 |
sternenmusik[m] |  | 12:24 |
genera | do smelly feet be foot lesions? | 12:25 |
\n3p\ | Italy will never recover. They are not competitive enough. Every crisis is worst. There is no path to recovery | 12:25 |
sternenmusik[m] | How many billion do the US owe China? 🤷🏻♂️😁 | 12:26 |
\n3p\ | More than 1000 un Treasury bonds | 12:26 |
\n3p\ | This not a nationalist rant. I just talking about basic math | 12:27 |
sternenmusik[m] | Same here,... 👌 | 12:28 |
mefistofeles | \n3p\: I agree, Germans won't agree to pay more taxes or work harder to help other europeans countries | 12:29 |
mefistofeles | and I have already heard that from many germans | 12:29 |
\n3p\ | Trade between US-Mexico works because we have different currencies. If Mexico were forced to use dollar as national currency Mexicans will be broken and can't afford to eat | 12:30 |
mefistofeles | now, that doesn'tmean that the EU and Merkel and others find a way to do it implicitely without people noticing it | 12:30 |
mefistofeles | that is, massively noticing it, rather | 12:30 |
\n3p\ | Yes, that is what they were doing for many years but they just delay the final outcome. EU is inviable. | 12:32 |
\n3p\ | Europe needs a new deal | 12:32 |
\n3p\ | One currency without fiscal centralization like USA will never work. | 12:34 |
\n3p\ | Europe must evolve to be a Federal Union or split | 12:34 |
\n3p\ | COVID-19 shows that EU is a myth | 12:35 |
\n3p\ | Even USA is suffering political unrest and conflicts between states because of COVID-19 | 12:37 |
mefistofeles | it's not that simple, it never is | 12:39 |
\n3p\ | It's very complex. | 12:39 |
sternenmusik[m] | Much easier to get over this pandemic first. | 12:40 |
\n3p\ | I hope so. | 12:41 |
\n3p\ | COVID is crashing the economy of many countries | 12:42 |
\n3p\ | In Spain they expect -15% GDP this year as worst scenery | 12:43 |
adventurer | au wants to send kids back to school to 'free up the economy' which i interpret as women and children are going to be put forward to get herd immunity | 12:43 |
adventurer | i hope the vaccine comes soon | 12:44 |
\n3p\ | We will have a very hard months in the near future | 12:44 |
mefistofeles | the outcome may be good/better, specially when the next pandemics arrives | 12:47 |
mefistofeles | economies will then be more closed and local, and the ffects won'tbe as bad, for economy and for lives | 12:47 |
mefistofeles | if cards are played correctly | 12:47 |
\n3p\ | Yes, in the long run we'll be better prepared | 12:47 |
mefistofeles | if that means sacrificing many large tech or entertainment or online delivery companies (for the most part), I'd say, no worries | 12:48 |
\n3p\ | How US-China settle their differences will change the world. There is too much uncertainties right now. Could be the end of globalization | 12:49 |
mefistofeles | \n3p\: a slowdown, at worst, imho | 12:50 |
\n3p\ | I think it depends on industries. Some will suffer but other could see a reborn | 12:51 |
\n3p\ | Health and pharma will be move from China to other nations | 12:54 |
mefistofeles | possibly | 12:55 |
mefistofeles | I mean, they won't leave China in an absolute manner, of course | 12:56 |
mefistofeles | and China will probably be the biggest manufacturer of many things, as usual, just because they are also the biggest market in many things | 12:56 |
adventurer | I always felt a bit sad when some entrepreneurs moved their manufacturing to China...like let us make stuff here but China is pretty good at manufacturing I can see | 12:56 |
mefistofeles | but yeah, things would probably become less China-dependent | 12:56 |
mefistofeles | specially the "Important" things | 12:57 |
\n3p\ | It's not easy to move out of China. There are a lot of investments there. But new investments probably will be national localized in each country. | 12:57 |
sternenmusik[m] | The race to get to the top again is WW3. | 12:58 |
mefistofeles | they are still in the top, not sure what you mean | 12:58 |
\n3p\ | Interesting times. Let's hope for the best. | 13:00 |
adventurer | I know some men who used to have many companies in AU hiring many people really helping them to afford to live then they changed their business to manufaturing in China well i guess hopefully they were helping some people who needed it there | 13:03 |
adventurer | but there is something cool in making stuff yourself | 13:04 |
adventurer | or knowing how to | 13:04 |
adventurer | and when you stop doing it you lose the skills a bit | 13:04 |
\n3p\ | adventurer, yes! We become very dependent on China slaves. That is not good. | 13:05 |
adventurer | I hope they are not slaves | 13:05 |
adventurer | but i also think of all the men who learnt to make cars in AU then no more jobs for them | 13:06 |
adventurer | when they closed the factories | 13:06 |
adventurer | what do those men in AU do now? | 13:06 |
adventurer | i don't know | 13:06 |
adventurer | maybe on centerlink | 13:06 |
\n3p\ | They are not free to chose. Forced labor is a thing in China. | 13:06 |
adventurer | oh | 13:06 |
adventurer | that's not good | 13:07 |
ubLIX | beyond a prison context, \n3p\? | 13:08 |
\n3p\ | ubLIX, probably. It's a brutal dictatorship | 13:09 |
ubLIX | does the aetiology of the brutality matter more than the brutality itself? | 13:11 |
\n3p\ | ubLIX, https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/chinas-forced-labor-problem/ | 13:11 |
\n3p\ | ubLIX, You could play with words but people suffer the same. | 13:13 |
ubLIX | nice inversion of point, \n3p\ | 13:14 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Florida Surgeon General Removed from Governor DeSantis' Coronavirus Briefing After Saying Social Distancing Necessary Until There's A Vaccine (10162 votes) | https://redd.it/g0yg4t | 13:14 |
ubLIX | from that linke: "Eventually, the national government launched an investigation into the kilns of Shanxi, resulting in inspections of almost 5,000 kilns and rescues of hundreds of enslaved workers, who spoke about abductions, captivity, beatings, and inhumane conditions." | 13:15 |
ubLIX | i suppose the absolute scale of systemically manifest problems scales with population size; the article doesn't approach the question of international comparison of prevalence for these features common to many (dare i say, most?) polities | 13:24 |
ubLIX | good article, nonetheless | 13:24 |
sternenmusik[m] | China is far ahead, since they started this virus thing. | 13:28 |
sternenmusik[m] | Smart they are. | 13:28 |
\n3p\ | sternenmusik[m], not sure of that because this will cost Chila a lot of billions and bad press around the world for many years. | 13:29 |
\n3p\ | COVID-19 shows the world that China is not a friend. They did a lot to damage the world | 13:31 |
mefistofeles | that'sa bit hypocrite | 13:32 |
MinceR | COVID-19 was needed for that? | 13:32 |
\n3p\ | No. | 13:32 |
mefistofeles | specially considering how Europe and USA also failed in containing this thing and were the ones spreading it faster to larger portions of the globe | 13:32 |
\n3p\ | But China let millions fly from Wuhan to the resto of the world. They buy a lot of PPE from many counties knowing that the virus was a serous threat | 13:33 |
mefistofeles | yes, because it wasn't an easy thing to contain, just as USA and Europe also let millions fly from their land | 13:34 |
mefistofeles | \n3p\: also, not millions, in any case | 13:34 |
mefistofeles | thousands, maybe | 13:34 |
\n3p\ | 4m fly from Wuhan. They went there for Chinese new year. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/feb/9/millions-left-wuhan-china-coronavirus-quarantine/ | 13:35 |
mefistofeles | sure, yet China got through it faster than others | 13:36 |
mefistofeles | so, still, bit hypocrite | 13:36 |
\n3p\ | China is not the only responsible of the spread | 13:37 |
MinceR | what data is this statement on how quickly Red China got through it based on anyway? | 13:37 |
mefistofeles | sure, and if anything most cases today are due to USA and Europe outbreaks | 13:37 |
mefistofeles | as the nextstrain people have shown | 13:37 |
mefistofeles | MinceR: the official data verified by many organizations, I prefer to rely on that than to imaginary data in an hypothetical situation where everything is possible | 13:38 |
sternenmusik[m] | <mefistofeles "sure, yet China got through it f"> China needs customers thats true, but they are ahead now and we are going to see the war to get to the top 🤷🏻♂️ | 13:38 |
MinceR | "official data" that comes from a totalitarian dictatorship with a vested interest in looking good in front of foreigners so they can keep and spread their dictatorship? | 13:39 |
mefistofeles | MinceR: as if others do better, ie. Japan | 13:39 |
MinceR | others don't deny their own subjects nearly as much information either | 13:40 |
mefistofeles | anyways, I still prefer to rely on real data and account for errors/manipulations in that data, than totally denying it with imaginary reasons | 13:40 |
MinceR | "real" data that was written by government officials for the purpose of making themselves look better, yes | 13:40 |
mefistofeles | and on facts, as China opening things again and such | 13:40 |
mefistofeles | nd how they are now getting more cases from US/Europe than CHina itself | 13:41 |
mefistofeles | in their own land | 13:41 |
AimHere | Totalitarian dictatorships have less of a vested interest to lie than democratic states, where the politicians actually depend on public opinion for their jobs. | 13:41 |
\n3p\ | AimHere, but they lie anyway | 13:42 |
MinceR | spreading their model to other countries depends on public opinion | 13:42 |
AimHere | Sure | 13:42 |
mefistofeles | Of course I think CHina and the WHO have made many mistakes in all of this, but that doesn'tmean other's (specially US/europe cricits) have done any better | 13:42 |
MinceR | trade also depends on public opinion | 13:42 |
mefistofeles | probably even worse | 13:42 |
MinceR | seems to me the WHO is doing everything they can to make red china happy | 13:42 |
MinceR | and they have better tools for hiding what's happening within their borders | 13:43 |
mefistofeles | MinceR: calling it names like "red china" idoesn't really add to the conversation | 13:43 |
MinceR | people who reported on the plague early mysteriously disappeared, afaik | 13:43 |
MinceR | mefistofeles: do you know why the usian government stopped calling them that? | 13:43 |
mefistofeles | MinceR: we can leave that for another channel and ocassion | 13:44 |
MinceR | but call them "People's Republic of China" if you believe that lifts the jackboots off their slaves' faces a bit all you want :> | 13:44 |
mefistofeles | nobody is saying that, still, not relevant for the discussion | 13:45 |
mefistofeles | so, I suggest we stay on topic | 13:45 |
MinceR | all i'm saying is one might not want to blindly believe these people when they publish alleged "data" that makes them look good | 13:46 |
mefistofeles | MinceR: nobody is blindly believen here | 13:49 |
aradesh | just because peolpe are untrustworthy doesn't mean all data they release is false | 13:49 |
mefistofeles | believing* | 13:49 |
aradesh | china's data matches all the internal consistency checks of valid data | 13:49 |
aradesh | initial spread rate matches other countries. time for lockdown to kick in matches other countries, etc | 13:49 |
aradesh | assuming their cases were mostly confined to wuhan, the data is very plausible | 13:50 |
mefistofeles | also, most countries are using China data and science for their own measures | 13:50 |
MinceR | this "China science" sounds interesting | 13:50 |
MinceR | what is it based on? | 13:51 |
mefistofeles | now, fortunately we have other countries data for validation, and it seems correct | 13:51 |
MinceR | have they reinvented science from the ground up? | 13:51 |
mefistofeles | no, and that's a clearly misinterpretation of what I just said | 13:51 |
aradesh | so without further info, i see no reason to disbelieve the china data | 13:51 |
aradesh | china could have lots of undetected cases in rural parts of china but | 13:52 |
aradesh | for the regions they tested and such, i don't see any evidence to suggest it's false | 13:52 |
\n3p\ | FRANCE | Emmanuel Macron Extends French Coronavirus Lockdown Until May 11 | 13:53 |
mefistofeles | yeah, France is really underreported, kinda expected | 13:55 |
mefistofeles | even though they are slowing it down already | 13:55 |
mefistofeles | I'm very curious about what Germany will say, so far the April 19th hods, afaik | 13:55 |
mefistofeles | *holds | 13:56 |
aradesh | what's meant to be happening on april the 19th? | 13:56 |
mefistofeles | university/school opening, and probably many others | 13:56 |
aradesh | will watch countries who relax their measures with attention | 13:57 |
aradesh | i don't know if japan did any relaxing, but they were doing well containing the virus for a while, but it seems to be exploding again | 13:57 |
mefistofeles | aradesh: they were not testing | 13:57 |
mefistofeles | so it was spreading but they just were not tracking it | 13:58 |
mefistofeles | Austria and Denmark are already opening | 13:58 |
mefistofeles | and in Germany, even though there'sstill these distancing measures, many are pretty much just acting normally | 13:58 |
mefistofeles | they will probably be opening many regions/states | 13:59 |
mefistofeles | Madrid is also opening some essential jobs that were locked | 13:59 |
P-S--Y | 01 | 14:04 |
P-S--Y | 2 | 14:05 |
P-S--Y | oops | 14:06 |
Jigsy | >UK coronavirus rules relaxed for people with autism and learning disabilities | 14:20 |
Jigsy | >People with learning disabilities or autism can leave the house for exercise more than once a day and can travel outside of their local area under current lockdown measures, the government has said. | 14:20 |
Jigsy | In other news, UK autism cases spiked 1000%. | 14:20 |
MinceR | lol | 14:20 |
Jigsy | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/uk-coronavirus-rules-autism-learning-disabilities-lockdown | 14:20 |
Jigsy | %title | 14:20 |
Brainstorm | Jigsy: From www.theguardian.com: UK coronavirus rules relaxed for people with autism and learning disabilities | World news | The Guardian | 14:20 |
MinceR | from what i can see around my home, hungarians with learning disabilities already act as if they had this exception | 14:20 |
MinceR | and there are a lot of them | 14:21 |
ecov | same here but with Mexicans | 14:31 |
mefistofeles | ecov: what's that? | 14:34 |
sternenmusik[m] | Your comments read like social distancing not physical distancing. | 14:37 |
Hullo1 | Hello | 14:38 |
Hullo1 | sternenmusik[m], Matrix user? | 14:38 |
mefistofeles | Hullo1: hey | 14:38 |
Hullo1 | mefistofeles, hello | 14:38 |
Hullo1 | Lockdown extended in India for two weeks more | 14:39 |
mefistofeles | Hullo1: ok, yes, it's still spreading fast there | 14:40 |
pwr22 | They are | 14:43 |
sternenmusik[m] | <Hullo1 "sternenmusik, Matrix user?"> Yes. | 14:56 |
\n3p\ | #ww4 Chinese aircraft carrier sails past Taiwan as US Navy struggles with coronavirus | 15:03 |
IndoAnon | >ww4 | 15:05 |
\n3p\ | yes. ww3 was the world war against terror. A world coalition against Afghanistan-Taliban Bin-Laden | 15:06 |
MinceR | :> | 15:07 |
\n3p\ | WHO Official Says She Suspected Human-To-Human COVID-19 Transmission ‘Right From The Start’ — But The WHO Echoed Misleading Chinese Claims To The Contrary For Weeks https://is.gd/YX4p3t | 15:12 |
Albright | The UN loses more of whatever legitimacy it pretends to have left every day that passes with Teddy-bear still in his position. | 15:13 |
\n3p\ | But Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove FAILS to alert her own contry!!! | 15:15 |
MinceR | ah, it's those Totally Trustworthy chinese again... | 15:21 |
l0ndoner | sup peeps o/ | 15:52 |
LjL | wow, we had 650 people here yesterday or so, 576 now, i did predict it had "peaked" and would start going down now, hadn't i Spec? :P | 16:00 |
LjL | too bad i didn't keep a graph of user count | 16:00 |
LjL | logs don't have that | 16:00 |
ubLIX | LjL: they turned the bridge off and on again | 16:00 |
LjL | oh | 16:00 |
LjL | that bridge is starting to ugh me | 16:00 |
\n3p\ | lol yes this channel life is dependent on the fear of the people to COVID-19 | 16:01 |
\n3p\ | fear have peaked | 16:02 |
LjL | ubLIX, i hope https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues/1026 will get solved in a decent way | 16:02 |
LjL | \n3p\, well the good thing about that is it'll likely be the first channel i'll be happy with losing | 16:03 |
\n3p\ | that is a good news for the world | 16:04 |
\n3p\ | You could open another for CoVid-SARS-3 2021 | 16:04 |
ubLIX | LjL: they should just not propagate edits across the bridge; it would encourage people using bridged channels not to use the edit feature | 16:08 |
LjL | ubLIX, i think the ideal thing to do would be to make the edit feature configurable by the room admin. i am not really a fan of people editing messages | 16:08 |
LjL | we can see headaches with that on Reddit which lacks edit summaries and a history | 16:09 |
LjL | it results in people sneakily changing what they said after they get a reply | 16:09 |
LjL | and in mods asking people to post an edit summary inline, which looks atrocious | 16:09 |
LjL | it already had a "delete message" feature. that seemed like more than enough to me | 16:09 |
ubLIX | room admin approach could be good | 16:11 |
LjL | ubLIX, for that matter i'm not a fan of the fact their protocol *mandates* clients to respect deletion of messages. when you send a message, and it reaches my computer, i'm sorry but it's mine to keep or lose now. not up to you, or my client on your behalf. | 16:12 |
ubLIX | heh. some funny decisions, for sure. i just noticed on my recent matrix revisit, that the search function on riot is done server side?! | 16:13 |
LjL | ubLIX, yes, because the logs are also not kept locally | 16:14 |
ubLIX | that's just a waste of bandwidth IMO | 16:14 |
LjL | ubLIX, well there are other clients | 16:14 |
LjL | ubLIX, but there's certainly some thought to be spent on the fact they log *everything forever*. on the other hand, freenode can only "promise" they don't. | 16:14 |
bin_bash | hm see yes this just confirms everything ive been saying | 16:15 |
ubLIX | mhm will be revisiting the weechat plugin as soon as i get the mojo | 16:16 |
dTal | LjL: why shouldn't the protocol mandate it? the alternative is to have no deletion in the protocol at all | 16:17 |
LjL | ubLIX, the main problem with other clients, when i tried some, was that e2e support was scant in most. basically you're tied to Riot if you want e2e, which is also the only way to have them *not* log everything server-side (well technically they still do) | 16:17 |
LjL | dTal, the alternative is that my client could easily have an option when the "deleted" message gets, say, stricken out. | 16:17 |
LjL | IRC doesn't have a deletion option and i don't really miss it | 16:17 |
LjL | it should be up to me as the person who's got the text on his computer. | 16:18 |
dTal | If I accidentally send you an embarassing picture, and I ask you nicely to delete it, *protocol* mandates that you do so | 16:18 |
ubLIX | LjL: haven't yet checked it, and the weechat-plugin lists e2ee as still experimental, but apparently they are being modest and e2ee is operational now on weechat | 16:18 |
dTal | you are of course free to tell me to get stuffed, but that would be rude | 16:18 |
LjL | dTal, well i disagree with that view. it's basically DRM. | 16:18 |
LjL | and i disagree very deeply with DRM. | 16:18 |
dTal | ...I think comparing it to DRM is ridiculous. | 16:18 |
dTal | It's the opposite of DRM. It's asking nicely | 16:19 |
dTal | The fact that it's *possible* for you to be a dick about it, doesn't mean we should bake that into law | 16:19 |
bin_bash | it's not even comparable to drm | 16:20 |
ubLIX | dTal: it's only asking nicely in the sense that you could write your own client that disregards that specification in the protocol | 16:20 |
dTal | But, this is a philosophical issue that pervades the tech world, the libertarian notion that might makes right | 16:20 |
dTal | ubLIX: exactly? | 16:21 |
ubLIX | if matrix ever becomes mainstream, a tiny minority of its users will be able to write their own client | 16:22 |
bin_bash | honestyl everything that isnt irc should be nuked from orbit | 16:23 |
bin_bash | raise the bar! riase the bar! | 16:23 |
dTal | Snapchat. Discuss | 16:23 |
ubLIX | haha | 16:23 |
bin_bash | nuke snapchat | 16:23 |
bin_bash | from orbit | 16:23 |
\n3p\ | https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-afflicted-global-economy-is-almost-certainly-in-recession-11586867402?mod=hp_lead_pos2 | 16:30 |
ubLIX | idk dTal. in principle, you can't minute a meeting if anyone present is able to unilaterally edit their contributions and you don't have local logs. the matrix reference client doesn't yet offer a fix for this concern | 16:31 |
jacklsw | snapchat is still bearable than tik tok | 16:39 |
jacklsw | tik-tok got a lot of retarded posters | 16:39 |
ubLIX | snapchat is wonderfully easy to bear - i've never used it and am not aware of being acquainted with anyone who does | 16:40 |
l0ndoner | xchat or GTFO :) | 16:41 |
\n3p\ | irssi or dead. terminar irc is the real thing! | 16:43 |
lf94 | weechat > everything | 16:45 |
lf94 | It goes beyond IRC | 16:45 |
lf94 | It's essentially just a chat shell | 16:45 |
lf94 | Can be used for any protocol | 16:46 |
\n3p\ | lol irc client flame wars 2020 | 16:46 |
python476 | netcat or die | 16:51 |
weyland|yutani | socat + tls + tcpdump | 17:04 |
pyna | weechat would be nice if it knew how to wrap links | 17:24 |
pyna | since it doesn't want to, irssi for life | 17:25 |
lf94 | weechat does | 17:26 |
lf94 | but also my terminal does too | 17:26 |
lf94 | in weechat it's ctrl+middle click | 17:26 |
lf94 | terminal it's shift+click | 17:26 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Boris Johnson praises immigrant nurses who saved his life (10005 votes) | https://redd.it/g0tql2 | 17:45 |
matrix_freenode[ | !cases India | 17:46 |
CovBot | Something went wrong fetching the latest data so stats may be outdated. | 17:47 |
CovBot | In India there have been a total of 10,541 cases as of 2020-04-14 13:18:00 UTC. Of these 8,978 (85.2%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 1,205 (11.4%) have definitely recovered and 358 (3.4%) have died. | 17:47 |
matrix_freenode[ | %data India | 17:47 |
Brainstorm | matrix_freenode[: In all areas, India, there are 10678 cases (0.0% of the population) and 358 deaths (3.4% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 206212 tests were performed (5.2% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India for time series data. | 17:47 |
pwr22 | Breathing through a kitchen roll filter is quite difficult | 17:59 |
pwr22 | I'm unsure if that's a good or a bad thing | 18:00 |
balaa[m] | Matrix for the win | 18:08 |
bin_bash | pyna: alt-l for wrapping links | 18:11 |
bin_bash | fuck matrix lol | 18:11 |
pyna | tbf i havent tried it in probably 5+ years maybe its improved | 18:12 |
bin_bash | pyna: alt-l for raw has always been a thing afaik, or at least for more than 5 years | 18:12 |
\n3p\ | After OPEC agreement WTI Oil $21.19 -5.44% | 18:13 |
LjL | i'm late for the italy press conference | 18:13 |
LjL | i'll rewind for the numbers | 18:13 |
LjL | not sure i feel like transcribing it all | 18:13 |
bin_bash | dont blame you | 18:13 |
LjL | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDMjt5K-USQ | 18:13 |
LjL | (Borrelli) Good evening, thanks to our LIS interpreter, and Prof. Massimo Antonelli, director of emergency at Policlinico Gemelli. And also Prof. Guidi, we've been friends for a long time and it's important to talk about disability during the time of coronavirus. | 18:15 |
LjL | Today's bulletin: 104291 currently positive, +675 | 18:15 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Florida man buys $20,000 bottle of bourbon for $40,000 to help struggling restaurant stay afloat (10185 votes) | https://redd.it/g13xg7 | 18:15 |
LjL | Pressure on hospitals keeps going down: 3186 are in ICU, -74, and 28011 hospitalized, -12 | 18:16 |
LjL | Most patients are self-isolating at home, that's 73094 (70%). | 18:16 |
LjL | +602 deaths today. | 18:16 |
LjL | +1695 recovered. | 18:16 |
genera | good evening )) | 18:16 |
LjL | We have 10598 today. | 18:16 |
LjL | [That's much less than in the past days!] | 18:16 |
LjL | Err, 10598 volunteers. | 18:17 |
LjL | [I'm really bad with transcribing numbers for some reason, they go away from my memory in like 5 seconds] | 18:17 |
LjL | We now have 122.5 million euro in donations. These will be used for purchasing PPEs and ventilators, and we spent 26 million so far. | 18:18 |
LjL | About the Alan Curdi ship, and migrants in general and their quarantine: I nominated the prefect of Bari to handle this, and he is working to find solutions both for quarantines on ships and finding other places on land. | 18:18 |
LjL | News that came out on the press on using a specific ship are not accurate as it's still under discussion and not decided. | 18:19 |
\n3p\ | MEXICO | This is crazy >>> Mexican Cartel Gunmen Distribute Food Baskets amid Coronavirus, Easter https://is.gd/4rKWGE | 18:21 |
LjL | (Antonelli) Good evening. ICU numbers have definitely improved, and thanks to cooperation with Lombardy, we could do a comparison I'm going to describe: in Lombardy has here been about 65% survival on ICU patients; in Latium, the numbers are lower, and in a similar timeframe we've had just 424 patients, but survival is still exatly 65%. | 18:21 |
LjL | What does that mean? First, the impact from the Lombard emergency on ICU was strong, and containment measures have allowed mitigation to be more effective in other regions, reducing the ICU number. But it also tells us that the severity is similar, so much that the severity index and the mortality are comparable in two regions with completely different impact. | 18:22 |
LjL | We can conclude that containment measures work and work well to reduce an impact in individual regions, and resources are enough to face things; secondly, effectiveness of ICU treatment, which are mainly supportive, is relatively high, if we consider how serious these patients are. | 18:22 |
LjL | (Borrelli) Any questions? | 18:23 |
LjL | Q: [Elderly/disabled person is speaking] The Civil Protection is Italy's pulsating heart. As a former neurologist at Gemelli, I'd call you the brain cortex of Italy. You are value. You give without asking, and that's what our future has to be. It's called democracy. Sorry for my breath but age and these masks make it hard. I wanted to ask Brusaferro why during the past years the epidemiology service has been cancelled, which could have intervened early and | 18:27 |
LjL | on the whole national territory. Some of the people who were in these press conferences have had strong responsibilities in causing this, we'll have to talk about it later. I think politicians, science, and mass media especially, have forgotten to call things with their name. It's no use talking about "vulnerable" people: there are 7 million people with disabilities, an enormous constellation with great potential, they are not liability but a resource. | 18:27 |
LjL | Some have learning problems, some neurological, some have autism, some find it hard to move... so there are many solutions to find: they can no longer be in rehabilitation centers, and home assistance is difficult, and they also cannot take part in school and work because they need specialized assistance that's no longer present. | 18:27 |
LjL | [I'm kind of losing track of what he's saying now] | 18:27 |
LjL | But really, let's call things with their names, as an important part of our society is expecting concrete answers. | 18:28 |
IndoAnon | >7 million people with disabilities < Mental and physical disabilities? | 18:29 |
pwr22 | Hmm, the NHS data seems to be gone | 18:30 |
pwr22 | I get a 403 now | 18:30 |
pwr22 | https://www.arcgis.com/sharing/rest/content/items/b684319181f94875a6879bbc833ca3a6/data. | 18:30 |
LjL | A: (Borrelli) Thank you... We haven't talked in a while, but you know disability is something we've always kept in mind in the Civil Protection, they are the first people we need to be concerned with during emergency. You know in our department we've had a project for at least 13 years, we have disabled people who work with us who allowed to create a path to follow on disability. Our volunteer organizations are focused on disabled people. As an emergency | 18:30 |
LjL | system, I can assure you that I've taken personal care of some specific cases, like the other night when I've called a mayor about a specific structure hosting disabled people that was having difficulties. I can assure you we'll always be there for disabled people. On the rest of what you said, Prof. Brusaferro will be able to answer tomorrow in the press conference he'll hold tomorrow at ISS. | 18:30 |
pwr22 | * https://www.arcgis.com/sharing/rest/content/items/b684319181f94875a6879bbc833ca3a6/data | 18:30 |
LjL | IndoAnon, yes, cecrtainly both considered | 18:30 |
LjL | Q: ICUs are going down in a clear way. Could it also be a signal of lesser virulence of this virus? Hospitalized people are also going down. And Dr Borrelli, today you met the "task force" of economists with the scientific committee... have you talked about re-opening some shops, relaxing the lockdowns in a controlled way...? | 18:31 |
LjL | A: From an intensivologist point of view, I'd say severity of patients has remained the same. It's hard to say if there's a reduction in virulence, but I don't think so. I think the main role has been played by containment measures. | 18:32 |
LjL | (Borrelli) The task force is working hard, but I cannot say anything on what we discussed today. It would not be appropriate: the task force will do its job and then only its president can decide when to communicate the results to the PM and the government. | 18:32 |
pwr22 | Looks like public health england has pulled their data! | 18:33 |
LjL | Q: The President of the EU Commission said elderly people will have to stay at home until the rest of the year, which made many people sad. Do you agree with the assessment? | 18:33 |
LjL | A: When we talk about the elderly we are in fact talking about the most vulnerable part of the population, and they are the people who pay the highest toll in our ICUs, so we definitely need to protect them further... now, making it compulsory for them to stay at home until the end of the year, who can say right now? We need to see how the situation evolves. | 18:34 |
LjL | pwr22, :\ | 18:34 |
LjL | Q: What stage are we at with home assistance? Exports had told us that after hospital pressure went down, it would be important to assist patients at home, especially in sight of "phase 2" when work will resume. How will this be handled, including for working people with disabilities? | 18:35 |
LjL | A: We have a plan on reinforcing "territorial medicine". We're in a phase where synergy that must exist between hospitals and the territory is the key for protecting this portion of the population in the future. | 18:35 |
LjL | Q: Would you recommend for or against booking summer holidays? (Borrelli) It's a legitimate question! Q: And just in case, maybe holiday activities restricted in the region of residence? | 18:36 |
pwr22 | LjL: they've convered it all into a dashboard which I guess I'll have to crawl https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/ | 18:36 |
LjL | A: (Antonelli) In all honesty I think no one knows. Any answer with any real detail would not be reliable. | 18:36 |
LjL | pwr22, json before? | 18:37 |
pwr22 | CSVs | 18:37 |
IndoAnon | >Would you recommend for or against booking summer holidays? | 18:38 |
LjL | Q: We have the scientific committee... how many people, 20, 30, 40? (Borrelli) It depends on the subject, it varies. Q: When we read the decree about the task force, we see they must first communicate with the scientific committee, then with the government. My question is, sometimes we've thought, among all these committee, who decides in the end? Please don't tell me "the government". We want to know dates, timeframes, what the regions want to do, EU | 18:39 |
LjL | guidelines...? And a second question: the 7 million disabled people, there are a lot of people with chronic disease, and they are abandoned now. They are sent home, they cannot be treated as there is no assistance at home, they are unwanted in hospitals... what is the scientific committee thinking wrt these people? | 18:39 |
pwr22 | lol | 18:39 |
IndoAnon | is there any tour agent who still do business in the first place? | 18:39 |
pwr22 | people got totally the wrong priorities there | 18:39 |
LjL | A: I think this pandemic showed, on a worldwide level, that we need an answer touching on various aspects of our lives: not just healthcare, but also operations (Civil Protection, etc) but also a social and economic part... I think the choice by the Government to nominate this committee was right, because it lets the deciders (and you must let me say this, this is not an emergency where I can decide, or some Commissioner... it's about essential interest of | 18:40 |
LjL | our society, that must be decided at the top level, so, in the government, with coordination with the regions). | 18:40 |
LjL | So... I'll say again, the committee will provide its contribution within the timeframe needed for the government to decide further. I'm sorry to answer this way, but it is just this way: only our Council of Minister can take these decisions. | 18:41 |
pwr22 | Supermarket in UK where no one seems to give any fucks | 18:41 |
IndoAnon | pwr22: no fucking masks? | 18:41 |
LjL | (Antonelli) If I may add... in modern medicine, aside from specific competences, multi-disciplinary abilities are important. In this emergency that's very important. Then about your question, I'd say the problem is even wider: this emergency affected not just disabled people or people with chronic disease, but also, for instance, cancer patients, who are waiting for surgeries and cannot have them... so both centrally and regionally, many hospitals... let | 18:43 |
LjL | me finish please... I mean something else, I mean the regions have oriented towards a choice of "COVID hospitals". Why? Because it lets them concentrate, with cautiousness, the people hit by this disease, and in turn that allows de-congesting the other hospitals, which right now are too crowded and cannot effectively treat both the COVID patients and many other patients. They cannot keep up. So that's one strategy that was put in place to provide an answer | 18:43 |
LjL | and start a process to go back to some "normality". | 18:43 |
LjL | And in the meanwhile, yes? Yes, sure, but this is something that is happening all over the world: the objective difficulties pose new problems, and make it so that some people, unfortunately, are scared to go to hospitals, or for other reasons, they just cannot receive the assistance they used to get. But we're all working together on this, and at least in some areas we're seeing some answers. | 18:44 |
IndoAnon | A coof from infected, will infect dozens of people at that setting | 18:45 |
LjL | Q: A question to Prof. Antonelli as a member of the scientific committee: clearly, what indications did it give to the government on re-opening activities? If companies can guarantee safety, the committee's opinion is to re-open, or not? | 18:45 |
LjL | Have we also considered prioritizing tests for healthcare workers and also relatives that are taking care of disabled people? If the person loses that assistance, they can no longer get it. So why have we not tested this category of people? It's about the life of their assisted, too. | 18:46 |
LjL | A: As a scientific committee member I can only tell you that it's a complex job and the members who are in the committee did determine a profile to be applied. It is currently in a final phase of elaboration, and my colleagues will give you an answer later. | 18:46 |
pwr22 | IndoAnon: some people did have them but most no and just behaving completely normally in the shop - not distancing | 18:46 |
pwr22 | Annoyingly | 18:46 |
LjL | For the test, it's one of the things that could be done, but requesting tests is very complex, as it concerns such a great amount of people that it sometimes has to be viewed practically. | 18:47 |
LjL | Q: So for now the scientific committee has NOT decided to make tests on people assisting disabled people? | 18:47 |
pwr22 | LjL: the PHE data now comes in a binary format with mentions of palantir in the header of the requests.... | 18:47 |
LjL | A: Of course they have, but they are prioritizing based on the actual ability to provide tests. | 18:47 |
LjL | (Borrelli) Okay, that's it for today. Good evening. | 18:47 |
LjL | --- end | 18:47 |
IndoAnon | lol | 18:47 |
LjL | pwr22, how's the covidly data for you? it does have subnational data, although sometimes it looks... weird | 18:48 |
LjL | like for instance yesterday England alone has more new positives than the UK as a whole | 18:48 |
LjL | which isn't exactly right | 18:48 |
LjL | but still | 18:48 |
l0ndoner | is uk still looking at April 27th for partial lifting? | 18:49 |
l0ndoner | hows IT doing with partial lifting | 18:49 |
IndoAnon | pwr22: on the social distancing part... people still unaware of that LjL: So, they are testing some of those life-assist people, but not the entirety? | 18:50 |
LjL | IndoAnon, i think what he said translates more like to "we know we should, but we can't" | 18:51 |
LjL | maybe i shouldn't just translate this from italian to english | 18:51 |
LjL | but also from bureaucratese to english | 18:51 |
LjL | because Borrelli is reeeally strong on bureaucratese (his guests, depends; yesterday's press conference had Dr Rezza and he gave relatively interesting answers) | 18:52 |
IndoAnon | hmm, "ability to make test" is quite vague | 18:52 |
LjL | well i can tell you what my much on it is | 18:53 |
LjL | my hunch* | 18:53 |
LjL | now i'm hearing Lombardy's press conference (not live, from earlier, youtube just had it as its next thing after the countrywide press conference), and they're saying they're finally moving towards adding serology tests to the PCR testing | 18:55 |
IndoAnon | ok | 18:57 |
pwr22 | LjL: `{"owner":"palantir","group":"supergroup","permissions":"rw-r--r--"}` | 18:57 |
pwr22 | Why? | 18:57 |
LjL | pwr22, wut? | 18:57 |
LjL | i have no idea what that is :P | 18:58 |
pwr22 | It's in one of the headers of the response | 18:59 |
bin_bash | ... | 18:59 |
pwr22 | `x-ms-meta-hdi_permission: {"owner":"palantir","group":"supergroup","permissions":"rw-r--r--"}` | 18:59 |
pwr22 | Palantir area company known for spying and dodgy shit | 18:59 |
bin_bash | lol "i dont know why this thing is in my own repo" is scary | 18:59 |
pwr22 | Also that seems to be leaking unnecessary data | 19:00 |
LjL | pwr22, oh, the response from the UK's new site? | 19:03 |
LjL | i am very bad with HTML and anything related | 19:04 |
LjL | bin_bash, it's in my repo? | 19:04 |
bin_bash | re-reading i misunderstood what he was saying, i didnt click the link but took pwr22's comment to mean it's in your repo | 19:07 |
LjL | Here's my transcription of today's Civil Protection press conference in Italy: https://dpaste.org/rb0f nothing really very interesting today, yesterday's had Dr Rezza with some vaguely interesting answers. | 19:07 |
LjL | bin_bash, my "repo" is just a github thing with a README.md which is what sources the entire list of links that's in the topic, and LICENSE that says you can use it | 19:08 |
LjL | that's all there is in there | 19:08 |
LjL | i was told to use github because people wanted history and using a pastebin seemed lame | 19:08 |
bin_bash | ah | 19:08 |
bin_bash | I thought it was for the bot | 19:08 |
pwr22 | Apparently UK pays palantir to do health data | 19:10 |
bin_bash | LOL | 19:11 |
pwr22 | I'll reverse engineer the dashboard later, it's gonna take a little while | 19:12 |
pwr22 | I can quickly improve the error handling though | 19:12 |
ecks | only +3,000 in Italy today, nice | 19:19 |
python476 | wut | 19:20 |
python476 | case not death right ? | 19:21 |
python476 | right, and ~only 300 deaths | 19:21 |
LjL | python476, no, deaths are more | 19:22 |
LjL | but i've only listened to the data from the press conference | 19:22 |
LjL | Brainstorm hasn't sent an update yet | 19:23 |
LjL | (Covidly is not that quick to update) | 19:23 |
ecks | +602 deaths | 19:23 |
LjL | and i haven't looked at the usual site | 19:23 |
LjL | ecks, that's a little more than yesterday right? | 19:23 |
ecks | 566 yesterday | 19:23 |
LjL | +2972 is the "true" new cases number | 19:23 |
ubLXI | pwr22: don't know if you've seen this: https://github.com/tomwhite/covid-19-uk-data - the author tries to keep on top of daily changes in reporting; might be useful to you for comparing notes | 19:24 |
LjL | slightly less than yesterday | 19:24 |
LjL | deaths slightly more | 19:24 |
LjL | so we continue with the trend of being slightly meh | 19:24 |
LjL | which sounds italian enough, but | 19:24 |
python476 | ah shit then | 19:25 |
mefistofeles | still slowing down, just not as fast as others | 19:25 |
pwr22 | ubLXI: it's being used in a WIP PR currently sitting in the repo but thanks for sharing anyway | 19:26 |
pwr22 | One advantage of this new dashboard is that it aggregates all the regions | 19:26 |
pwr22 | *devolved regions | 19:26 |
LjL | fewer tests today, more positives among them | 19:27 |
LjL | 27000 tests, 11.1% positive (and remember i learned yesterday these test numbers include the "double negatives" recovered people must get) | 19:27 |
LjL | but milan is dipping slightly today, whew | 19:27 |
mefistofeles | https://i.imgur.com/3Z7MdGX.png | 19:27 |
LjL | (although it can be just delayed data, but let me whew anyway) | 19:27 |
LjL | hospitalizations are going *up* slightly today | 19:28 |
LjL | not ICU though | 19:28 |
mefistofeles | they can now take milder cases | 19:28 |
\n3p\ | https://www.visualcapitalist.com/infection-trajectory-flattening-the-covid19-curve/ | 19:35 |
l0ndoner | uk no where near 100,000 tests a day | 19:45 |
l0ndoner | cant see us reaching it | 19:45 |
mefistofeles | l0ndoner: hmm, yes, not likely | 19:52 |
LjL | blah, i'm not entirely sure Brainstorm is working... i split it into three to ease its workload but it's posting no RSS feeds, even though the logs hint that it's processing them ;( | 20:01 |
ubLXI | pwr22: oof oof oof what a ball of fail - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/uk-government-using-confidential-patient-data-in-coronavirus-response | 20:07 |
l0ndoner | LjL: error logs? | 20:07 |
LjL | the logs look kinda fine | 20:07 |
LjL | well no they don't | 20:08 |
LjL | watchdog killing it, because i am not sending watchdog keepalives with the new setup | 20:08 |
LjL | that would kind of explain it | 20:08 |
\n3p\ | Mexico’s unfolding presidential tragedy https://www.ft.com/content/6abcb55c-7a47-11ea-af44-daa3def9ae03 | 20:09 |
l0ndoner | I cant read FT I aint got a sub :( | 20:10 |
LjL | %cases us | 20:11 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, US, there are 595351 cases (0.2% of the population) and 24719 deaths (4.2% of cases) as of 6 minutes ago. 2.9 million tests were performed (20.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 20:11 |
LjL | %cases united states | 20:11 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, US, there are 595351 cases (0.2% of the population) and 24719 deaths (4.2% of cases) as of 6 minutes ago. 2.9 million tests were performed (20.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 20:11 |
IndoAnon | >Over the past month, the Mexican president has brandished a six-leafed clover he says will protect him against the coronavirus and he has repeatedly violated his own government’s advice on social distancing, on one occasion shaking the hand of the mother of the country’s most infamous convicted drug trafficker. | 20:13 |
IndoAnon | >brandished a six-leafed clover | 20:13 |
IndoAnon | What he meant by this? | 20:13 |
LjL | IndoAnon, they are believed to bring good luck in various cultures | 20:14 |
LjL | although i usually would content me with four-leaved as a child | 20:14 |
LjL | six seems difficult to find! | 20:15 |
IndoAnon | even 4-leaf it's quite difficult | 20:15 |
LjL | well that's the idea | 20:15 |
LjL | when you find one, it's a rare find, and it means you'll be lucky | 20:15 |
LjL | don't question superstitino! | 20:15 |
IndoAnon | lel | 20:15 |
LjL | might as well mean you found a clover with a genetic mutation, and it means you'll get cancer | 20:16 |
LjL | but hey that's just my interpretation | 20:16 |
IndoAnon | kek | 20:16 |
IndoAnon | what's next? nine-leaved? | 20:17 |
mefistofeles | no, 9 is not prime, only primes after that | 20:17 |
LjL | maybe now every country's leader will start a race to finding the most-leaved clover | 20:17 |
LjL | they'll divert labs from making a vaccine to making many-leaved clovers | 20:17 |
mefistofeles | and then we get the rule of prime distribution from clover biology | 20:17 |
mefistofeles | solved... next! | 20:18 |
LjL | O.o | 20:18 |
LjL | also, leafed or leaved? | 20:18 |
IndoAnon | (ง ื▿ ื)ว | 20:18 |
pyna | leafed imho | 20:18 |
LjL | argh, bot still getting killed by watchdog | 20:35 |
mefistofeles | LjL: too much memory? | 20:38 |
LjL | no | 20:39 |
LjL | systemd's watchdog that is actually meant to kill the bot if it stops responding | 20:39 |
mefistofeles | LjL: then why watchdog kills it? | 20:39 |
mefistofeles | ah ok | 20:39 |
LjL | i am running three bots now (which get merged into one Brainstorm by znc) but apparently i have to figure out some details | 20:40 |
LjL | earthquake stuff, and RSS stuff, are running separate from the rest now because they are the most taxing tasks | 20:40 |
LjL | and python 2 multithreads horribly | 20:40 |
mefistofeles | oh yeah :/ | 20:40 |
LjL | on the other hand, it's also not sending COVID updates, despite the %cases command working, and that's definitely not because of the watchdog... | 20:41 |
LjL | well, probably not | 20:41 |
LjL | %cases italy | 20:41 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Italy, there are 162488 cases (0.3% of the population) and 21067 deaths (13.0% of cases) as of 6 minutes ago. 1.1 million tests were performed (15.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 20:41 |
LjL | also that "as of 6 minutes ago" shows my new logic for giving realistic timestamps isn't working | 20:41 |
l0ndoner | LjL: serious question why not each process in there own docker | 20:44 |
LjL | because likely *then* i'd run out of RAM :P | 20:45 |
LjL | also... how'd it help? i mean it could marginally help with security but it's not like docker gives me more CPU time somehow | 20:45 |
l0ndoner | ahh ok ill leave you to it | 20:46 |
l0ndoner | forget I spoke | 20:46 |
LjL | i actually tried it once anyway, but turned out i'd have to find a completely different way to obtain a watchdog, because systemd's watchdog doesn't play well with docker and there's a bug filed about it from ages ago but it's still there | 20:47 |
l0ndoner | running pihole in docker and the average is amazing load average: 0.00, 0.03, 0.00 | 20:49 |
LjL | well it's not docker giving you good load averages though, it's pihole :P | 20:50 |
l0ndoner | going to setup rosetta@home on docker see hpw many instances I can run lol | 20:50 |
LjL | Spec, https://np.reddit.com/r/italy/comments/g1799b/it_took_a_pandemic_but_the_us_is_finally/ ;P | 20:51 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 18:48 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Head lice drug emerges as potential coronavirus treatment, studies show - ABC News → https://is.gd/2PUJq2 | 20:51 |
LjL | yay | 20:51 |
LjL | i mean, double yay | 20:52 |
LjL | for drug and for RSS working again | 20:52 |
LjL | also it's the first time it even posts from Reddit (test) | 20:52 |
LjL | which is my multi for all things coronavirus | 20:52 |
LjL | ubLXI, oh gawd, now even THE GUARDIAN is asking me to register to see their article! | 20:53 |
LjL | i want the €5 i donated to them back! | 20:53 |
LjL | Register for free and continue reading | 20:53 |
LjL | The Guardian’s independent journalism is still free to read | 20:53 |
LjL | Registering lets us understand you better. This means that we can build better products and start to personalise the adverts you see so we can charge more from advertisers in the future. | 20:53 |
LjL | no, not "free", not for many definitions of that | 20:53 |
LjL | nice move to do that in the middle of a pandemic, of all times | 20:54 |
LjL | classy | 20:54 |
LjL | but also, interestingly, if i change the URL to .co.uk it redirects me back to .com *anyway*, but also, it doesn't ask me to register | 20:54 |
Spec | LjL: lol | 20:55 |
LjL | i mean, it still has a giant banner encouraging me to register but i can close the banner | 20:55 |
Spec | LjL: soon we might realize the importance of social safety mechanisms, healthcare, and how healthy the rich are when roasted over a low flame for 36 hours and coated in herbs and spices | 20:55 |
Spec | errr | 20:56 |
Spec | how tasty* | 20:56 |
LjL | :D | 20:56 |
LjL | Spec, aerogarden herbs? | 20:56 |
l0ndoner | reading somewhere not sure if it was the gaurdian that covid-19 is named the posh virus because rich westerners travelling around the world infected all the poor | 20:58 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 18:53 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Francia → https://is.gd/MvB3Kj | 20:58 |
\n3p\ | l0ndoner, not far from true. In Mexico the first cases were bankers | 21:00 |
Xip | Hey uhm, I got some info from Sweden, take this with grain of salt. | 21:01 |
l0ndoner | yea mainly extremely rich people traveling to wealthy ski resorts and health spas and alike contracted it then infecte the poor .. Not sure of the truth to it but makes a lot of sense | 21:01 |
Xip | Mars, 8300~ ish immmigrants were taken in for no reason and were not tested in Sweden. | 21:01 |
l0ndoner | xip where the immigrants come from... Because Sweden is a long way from southern borders | 21:02 |
Xip | l0ndoner, No idea, just now the number | 21:03 |
Xip | l0ndoner, It was at least 8300 | 21:03 |
Xip | l0ndoner, And they were not tested | 21:03 |
Xip | know* | 21:03 |
l0ndoner | source? | 21:03 |
Xip | I will see.. | 21:03 |
\n3p\ | l0ndoner, of course there were no intention and they must not be demonized for that. | 21:04 |
Xip | I got to take care of some thing with my company, but I promise you I will get the source in a momnt | 21:04 |
CovBot | Public Health England have changed their data format so I've temporarily disabled those stats until I'm updated on how to fetch them. I do know about healthcare regions in Finland now though 😛. | 21:06 |
l0ndoner | LjL: Try Fanboys Annoyance list There is a rule theguardian.com##.site-message in the list somewhere | 21:07 |
l0ndoner | thats only browser based wont work for scripts I dont think | 21:07 |
Xip | https://www.migrationsverket.se/Om-Migrationsverket/Statistik/Beviljade-uppehallstillstand-oversikter.html | 21:08 |
Xip | Totalt | 21:09 |
Xip | 21:09 | |
Xip | 8 285 | 21:09 |
Xip | 21:09 | |
Xip | 25 427 | 21:09 |
jester | 26 72 | 21:09 |
l0ndoner | xip ahhh Jan to March? | 21:09 |
Xip | Mars | 21:09 |
Xip | 8285 | 21:10 |
Xip | No stop to it =) | 21:10 |
Xip | And they test none of them. | 21:10 |
Xip | And that's what they tell you, who knows.. | 21:11 |
\n3p\ | USA | Exclusive – Adm. Brett Giroir Details Public Health Infrastructure to Reopen America: ‘Surveillance, Testing, Contact Tracing’ https://is.gd/Ozymfn | 21:11 |
Xip | So why would you take in that many people, without testing? | 21:12 |
l0ndoner | thats a lot of immigrants for one month March but your 3 month total is 25k | 21:12 |
Xip | They don't test them | 21:12 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 19:10 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: COVID-19: How many asymptomatic people could be walking around? → https://is.gd/bOmVjI | 21:13 |
Xip | This is not fake news, I am literally showing you facts | 21:13 |
Xip | We still bring in people for no reason, we are not closed, and they are trying to make sure now that we can "help" even more people | 21:14 |
l0ndoner | is that an official website or someones blog? | 21:14 |
Xip | It's a gov site | 21:14 |
lf94 | govna | 21:14 |
Xip | It's the Swedish Migration Agency | 21:15 |
l0ndoner | I cant answer for sweden xip but thats a big wow | 21:15 |
Xip | Just so you know | 21:17 |
Xip | It will be interesting to see if Sweden will become the "Hero" once again | 21:19 |
Xip | They changed the topic from global warming to now this pandemic | 21:19 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 19:17 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Nate Silver su Twitter: "It increasingly looks like New York, both the state and the city, have not merely flattened but probably bent the COVID-19 curve downward. https://t.co/bMGWOzS8lC" → https://is.gd/St9Xm1 | 21:20 |
Xip | It could be that Sweden just simply cares about science and the rest of the world cares about something else.. | 21:20 |
Xip | And fear is so strong, and for some reason Sweden does the opposite this time | 21:21 |
Xip | To be honest, I thought we'd be seeing the opposite | 21:21 |
Xip | Sweden is always the fringe | 21:21 |
Xip | What the hell is going on? | 21:21 |
gloops | sweden is very sparsely populated | 21:22 |
gloops | they dont see anyone day to day anyway | 21:22 |
Xip | I went back to work | 21:22 |
l0ndoner | how many matropolis sweden has? | 21:22 |
Xip | Stockholm | 21:22 |
Xip | Göteborg and Malmö | 21:23 |
Xip | That said, it doesn't really matter, our country is not in any lockdown | 21:23 |
gloops | sweden has something like 12 people km^2 | 21:23 |
Xip | We are free, which is so weird... | 21:23 |
gloops | UK has 250 | 21:24 |
gloops | thats the difference | 21:24 |
Xip | Yea but.. | 21:24 |
Xip | We're a much bigger country | 21:24 |
Xip | Most of the area, people don't live, I am in my cozy place | 21:24 |
\n3p\ | Xip Sweden is a governed by neo-hippies, SJW assholes and woke nonsense | 21:24 |
gloops | it probably wont spread at a rate that will overwhelm your health care | 21:25 |
Xip | I believe that people the culture helps | 21:25 |
gloops | yes \n3p\ | 21:25 |
gloops | there is ideology involved as well | 21:25 |
gloops | the feminazis are ultra liberal | 21:25 |
Xip | I don't got an official source but I've been told that somalias and immigrants are like 80% of all the deaths here | 21:25 |
gloops | except when it comes to oppressing white males | 21:26 |
mefistofeles | gloops: take your discriminatory language somewhere else, please | 21:26 |
mefistofeles | or mind the name calling and language | 21:26 |
l0ndoner | Tories for years and years been trying to kill off the NHS the moment they could have... They sacrificed a whole country to save it | 21:26 |
l0ndoner | mind blown | 21:26 |
Xip | I may have a source for that too.. | 21:26 |
Xip | Anyway Swedes are not really hurt by this at all and we are open | 21:27 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 19:24 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: La Spagna è il paese con più morti per coronavirus in relazione al numero di abitanti → https://is.gd/FEL72x | 21:27 |
gloops | l0ndoner well, that seems to confirm that the establishment is very worried | 21:27 |
Xip | We are now in the coming of weeks going to open up even more | 21:27 |
Xip | I was worried myself | 21:27 |
l0ndoner | xip whats the age demographic for sweden? | 21:28 |
gloops | i dont believe this virus is a natural mutation | 21:28 |
l0ndoner | Italy have a lot of elderly | 21:28 |
Xip | l0ndoner, no idea, like 80+ | 21:28 |
gloops | we are dealing with SARs II | 21:28 |
Xip | But we don't know what the virus does to you eventually | 21:28 |
mefistofeles | gloops: well, if you have a way to proof that scientifically, you should publish and get rich | 21:28 |
l0ndoner | xip is sweden mainly young > middle aged > or old like italioans? | 21:29 |
gloops | i dont, obviously | 21:29 |
mefistofeles | because experts have looked into that and they all agree it's natural | 21:29 |
mefistofeles | gloops: evidently | 21:29 |
mefistofeles | gloops: but at least you can contradict the experts on this, right? or else why would you think they are wrong? | 21:29 |
gloops | which experts mefistofeles | 21:29 |
Xip | It's far dangerous to close down the society | 21:29 |
Xip | And what the rest of the world is doing, who knows | 21:30 |
gloops | other experts are saying theres no way it can be natural | 21:30 |
Xip | Is Sweden the truly free country? | 21:30 |
mefistofeles | gloops: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 or https://nextstrain.org/ncov for example | 21:30 |
l0ndoner | xip UK is lock down but I am classed key worker | 21:30 |
mefistofeles | gloops: source? | 21:30 |
Xip | Nothing is closed down here still | 21:30 |
gloops | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htMUCYkFO6M | 21:30 |
mefistofeles | lol | 21:30 |
mefistofeles | your source is youtube? | 21:30 |
l0ndoner | xip but what is infection rate for sweden? | 21:31 |
\n3p\ | gloops, If COVID-19 is a weapon then Chinese suicide with it. They are the most damage country. Not likely. | 21:31 |
l0ndoner | that has a lot to do with it | 21:31 |
gloops | thats where videos are posted | 21:31 |
Xip | If you ask me, I'm in Stockholm right now and no one seems to care about the virus | 21:31 |
Xip | And it's odd | 21:31 |
mefistofeles | gloops: well, that's not where science is posted mostly | 21:31 |
mefistofeles | gloops: so, again try to post a scientific verifiable source, or at least explain why the sources I linked are wrong | 21:31 |
gloops | being lab created doesnt make it a weapon | 21:31 |
l0ndoner | !covid sweden | 21:31 |
CoronaBot | Sweden: Global rank: #21, cases: 11,445 (+497), fatalities: 1,033 (+114), active cases: 10,031, total recovered: 381, in a serious condition: 915. Mortality: 9.03%, case fatality rate: 73.06%, cases/1M: 1133.0, deaths/1M: 102.0. Case rate: 465/24h, death rate: 20/24h. Tests: 54,700, tests/1M: 5,416. | 21:31 |
mefistofeles | gloops: nobody is saying that | 21:32 |
gloops | they were obviously experimenting with SARs and corona viruses | 21:32 |
mefistofeles | it'snot lab created, either | 21:32 |
gloops | bat viruses CANNOT infect humans | 21:32 |
LjL | mefistofeles, \n3p\ kinda did, to be fair | 21:32 |
mefistofeles | gloops: many labs in the world are, that doesn't proove anything | 21:32 |
mefistofeles | LjL: what? | 21:32 |
gloops | Covid-19 s-proteins are 100% match for SARs | 21:32 |
mefistofeles | gloops: no, they are not 100% | 21:32 |
Xip | This virus is not that dangerous. What is dangerous is the lockdown. | 21:32 |
mefistofeles | you don't even have your facts right :/ | 21:32 |
LjL | mefistofeles, \n3p\ implied that gloops was implying that the virus is a weapon by implying that it is lab-made / not-natural | 21:33 |
\n3p\ | LjL, I don't believe the virus was enginiered | 21:33 |
l0ndoner | covid-19 protein splits very similar to HiV | 21:33 |
Xip | But we don't know, of course. Maybe we are the control group, who knows... | 21:33 |
mefistofeles | LjL: ah ok, missed that | 21:33 |
gloops | the overal DNA is 89% match for SARs which is expected | 21:33 |
l0ndoner | I think its more a branch from HiV | 21:33 |
LjL | \n3p\, okay, that doesn't mean it DOESN'T come from a lab, technically | 21:33 |
Xip | I'm starting to think there is less science outside Sweden.. | 21:33 |
mefistofeles | gloops: no, 89% is not the number either | 21:33 |
gloops | but the s-proteins are 100% | 21:33 |
LjL | labs can definitely leak things by mistakes | 21:33 |
LjL | because they are run by humans | 21:33 |
Xip | In fact, there is so much fake news | 21:33 |
mefistofeles | gloops: check your facts, but all this just points how weak your argument is :/ | 21:33 |
LjL | on another note: https://keyt.com/health/2020/04/13/are-surfers-safe-from-the-coronavirus-health-officer-says-ocean-water-is-potentially-infectious/ ← bit of a stretch? | 21:33 |
gloops | mefistofeles youre just nitpicking | 21:34 |
\n3p\ | LjL, it could come from a lab in Wuhan but most probably a mistake from some employee there | 21:34 |
gloops | the figures are in the ball park | 21:34 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 19:31 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: 13th April - UK's daily death toll compared with Italy's, Spain's, France's and Germany's → https://is.gd/6PyWcq | 21:34 |
mefistofeles | gloops: I'm just saying what you are saying is incorrect | 21:34 |
Xip | If this was so dangerous why has Sweden not been shutdown yet? It's literally the country that will host the nobel prize. | 21:34 |
gloops | it isnt coincidence | 21:34 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: 8 in 10 Americans would wait to resume activities after government lifts coronavirus restrictions: poll (10018 votes) | https://redd.it/g143rb | 21:34 |
Xip | Even this year. | 21:34 |
bin_bash | Xip: because they want to wipe out the poor migrants /s | 21:35 |
mefistofeles | gloops: funny how you trust numbers from experts on the similarity with SARS and then decide to ignore them over a youtube video for crazy conspiracy theories | 21:35 |
mefistofeles | xD | 21:35 |
mefistofeles | again, pretty weak argument | 21:35 |
explore | in places like taiwan and hong kong, there's not so much epic irc debating going on, more shut up and walk the walk going on | 21:35 |
l0ndoner | covid-19 protein tears or splits very very similar to HiV | 21:35 |
Xip | People are so eager to want to kill the "Swedish model" | 21:35 |
explore | deadly viruses are easy, just do the right thing | 21:35 |
gloops | what im saying is bat corona cannot infect humans | 21:35 |
LjL | let's see how long the "Swedish model" keeps up | 21:35 |
Xip | This will put it to a test for real | 21:35 |
gloops | the bat story is just that | 21:35 |
gloops | a cover story | 21:35 |
mefistofeles | gloops: yes, that's known | 21:35 |
l0ndoner | and we have slowed HiV down so I think HiV drugs may have effects soon | 21:36 |
LjL | if the "Swedish model" means "do nothing at all" | 21:36 |
\n3p\ | Of course just speculations. Only CCP knows what really happened | 21:36 |
mefistofeles | that's why they are looking for a middle host | 21:36 |
mefistofeles | pangolins are very likely | 21:36 |
gloops | so how can you be so sure that this apparent bat corona isnt lab altered | 21:36 |
mefistofeles | but not known still | 21:36 |
LjL | gloops, no one is saying that a bat virus directly infected humans. it has always been said there was an intermediate host. | 21:36 |
Xip | Old people must stay at home | 21:36 |
Xip | Since day 1 | 21:36 |
LjL | gloops, you may not believe that, but you can't ignore it and pretend something is being claimed that isn't | 21:36 |
Xip | Kids should stay at school | 21:37 |
mefistofeles | gloops: it's not that I'm sure it is, it is that you are sure it isn't, so please enlight us | 21:37 |
Xip | To make this herd immunity | 21:37 |
gloops | and we just cant happen to find an intermediate when it would be infested with the virus | 21:37 |
LjL | Xip, and kids who live with old people ...? maybe that works in Sweden. wouldn't work in Italy. | 21:37 |
Xip | They will become a wall | 21:37 |
LjL | (anyway i don't think it'll work in Sweden either) | 21:37 |
gloops | this didnt start in wuhan | 21:37 |
l0ndoner | if there are super carriers is it feasable there are super immunities ? | 21:37 |
gloops | thats a cover, a diversion | 21:37 |
gloops | they released it there | 21:38 |
mefistofeles | gloops: do you have *any* evidence of what you are saying, so far, none | 21:38 |
Xip | I am starting to think the Swedish model actually works | 21:38 |
gloops | to pretend it started naturally | 21:38 |
LjL | gloops, i believe ##coronavirus-vox is fond of this type of argument that's full of claims that remain unsubstantiated or substantiated by youtube videos | 21:38 |
LjL | but we aren't fond of them here | 21:38 |
Xip | Sorry to be so... Swedish. | 21:38 |
mefistofeles | gloops: ↑ | 21:38 |
Xip | Science works. | 21:38 |
l0ndoner | mefistofeles: there was a fire at a lab in wuhan china and ever since ..... | 21:38 |
mefistofeles | l0ndoner: xD | 21:39 |
LjL | i don't feel i can completely rule out accidental release from a lab, tbh | 21:39 |
bin_bash | Xip: it's ironic considering the swedish government is NOT following science | 21:39 |
LjL | but that doesn't mean i start making a ton of very specific theories | 21:39 |
Xip | bin_bash, In what way? | 21:39 |
bin_bash | in what way is it ironic? | 21:39 |
Xip | LjL, You are the head of this channel, check yourself | 21:39 |
LjL | Xip, excuse me? | 21:39 |
bin_bash | o.o | 21:39 |
Xip | LjL, You literally wanted me banned all day long when I said that this would become a pandemic | 21:40 |
LjL | actually i need to have dinner | 21:40 |
LjL | Xip, what? | 21:40 |
LjL | you are insane Xip | 21:40 |
Xip | LjL, And now I'm a moderate | 21:40 |
LjL | this is not an overstatement | 21:40 |
LjL | you make things up | 21:40 |
l0ndoner | xip I think your reading too much into it mate | 21:40 |
LjL | Xip, and if you want to claim i banned you BECAUSE you said this would become a pandemic | 21:41 |
LjL | show logs | 21:41 |
Xip | LjL, Remember when I said this would become a pandemic when you made this channel? | 21:41 |
LjL | if you can't show logs | 21:41 |
LjL | apologize | 21:41 |
Xip | I don't do logs | 21:41 |
LjL | then shut the fuck up | 21:41 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 19:34 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Police Kick Down Door Over Suspected Coronavirus Gathering → https://is.gd/h7g3Zk | 21:41 |
LjL | because i did not ban you for saying this would become a pandemic | 21:41 |
Xip | I don't log anyone | 21:41 |
Xip | I'm not gestapo | 21:41 |
explore | LjL: when people make arguments like "some government actor planted this virus" it is easy for the skeptic to say, okay, this is pretty familiar to me, someone is trying to drive a wedge between china and usa and start some unnecessary shit, i have seen this before, I think CNN went to Macedonia and some village in Africa to interview these fake news people paid by some rich cat in Russia | 21:41 |
LjL | then don't put words in my mouth | 21:41 |
pokiehl | Your chat logs idiot, clients most of the time automatically save them | 21:41 |
Xip | LjL, I know you got a good heart | 21:41 |
l0ndoner | <<------ need ph000d bbl | 21:42 |
LjL | pokiehl, don't call people idiots for no reason. there are plenty of clients that don't automatically log | 21:42 |
explore | LjL: and there will be gullible people who just go along with this sort of crap | 21:42 |
Xip | LjL, And you know I got a good heart too | 21:42 |
Xip | I'm just chatting | 21:42 |
Xip | I want everything to get back to normal | 21:42 |
LjL | Xip, what i know is that you are often stating you are drunk and you have some mood swings and you often misunderstand things | 21:42 |
explore | LjL: https://www.wired.com/2017/02/veles-macedonia-fake-news/ | 21:42 |
LjL | i want to believe you simply misunderstood that one | 21:42 |
LjL | because i most certainly never banned you FOR thinking this would become a pandemic | 21:42 |
explore | LjL: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/31/europe/russia-africa-propaganda-intl/index.html | 21:43 |
Xip | LjL, You mood swings, you promised me not to talk about that | 21:43 |
LjL | i promised? | 21:43 |
Xip | LjL, You did | 21:43 |
explore | LjL: so i feel really sorry for people who can't be critical of what they read | 21:43 |
LjL | i can see your mood swings right here | 21:43 |
Xip | LjL, I see | 21:43 |
LjL | i don't need to draw from anything you said in private | 21:43 |
LjL | it is pretty darned obvious | 21:43 |
LjL | and you know what else? i have mood swings too | 21:43 |
LjL | and there is a damned wind outside and i feel bad | 21:43 |
Xip | LjL, No need to say that | 21:43 |
LjL | so if you want to be banned again, keep saying crap like this | 21:44 |
LjL | now bye, dinner | 21:44 |
\n3p\ | explore, if it were easy to design viruses then we have a new one every month. That's crazy | 21:44 |
Xip | LjL, Banned? | 21:44 |
\n3p\ | There are no winners of a pandemic. All the world is suffering from it. | 21:45 |
mefistofeles | Xip: I suggest you take that elsewhere, or privately | 21:45 |
mefistofeles | we don't really care how you and Ljl are in love or in hate or whatever | 21:45 |
Xip | mefistofeles, Who cares how this entire protocol works right | 21:46 |
Xip | We are all friends | 21:46 |
davros | is this a "it's engineered" debate | 21:46 |
bin_bash | you're only friends with yourself | 21:46 |
mefistofeles | Xip: no, we are not friends, but we are expected to respect others and behave, common sense | 21:46 |
Xip | mefistofeles, The war has not even begun | 21:46 |
explore | so have you guys tested any food that taste alright to your taste buds and stores well? | 21:46 |
mefistofeles | davros: it was, or hardly was even | 21:46 |
mefistofeles | davros: just the usual claims without any evidence or reasoning | 21:47 |
explore | i have ttested those instant oatmeals from Quaker, it hasn't killed me (famous last words) | 21:47 |
explore | there's specks of some dried fruit in it, like peach | 21:47 |
davros | releasing a pandemic is a good idea if you already have a bunker, i guess, but its more likely it was natural IMO. | 21:47 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 19:45 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Loss of Smell and Taste Validated as COVID-19 Symptoms in Patients with High Recovery Rate → https://is.gd/h0xTnk | 21:48 |
gloops | maybe not released but escaped | 21:48 |
Xip | So the problem with this is food | 21:49 |
gloops | why did china try to cover it up? | 21:49 |
pokiehl | explore: food food or instant food? | 21:49 |
explore | gloops: may have leaked from the stale pizzas left on the movie set of the Andromeda Strain.. shut up already | 21:49 |
davros | didn't want the world to lose faith in it | 21:49 |
Xip | As long as you got food and friends, you'll make it | 21:49 |
gloops | because they thought they could get it back in the bottle and nobody would know a virus had escaped which had unknown traits | 21:49 |
explore | gloops: take your stupid conspiracy crap else where | 21:50 |
\n3p\ | gloops, because the economy suffer | 21:50 |
mefistofeles | gloops: they were not sure it was a new thing, that's hard to say with such few data and the current state of the art in clinics/biological sciences don't allow that quick detection of new viruses | 21:50 |
davros | right like now more people are talking about divorcing themselves from the chinese supply chain | 21:50 |
mefistofeles | so, if you cause panic with a false claim it is worse | 21:50 |
davros | so china had an incentive to hide it | 21:50 |
gloops | conspiracy to question chinas propaganda? | 21:50 |
mefistofeles | specially when the real thing comes later, remember that boy and the wolf? | 21:50 |
explore | gloops: actually let me rephrase this, take your stupid crap else where | 21:51 |
davros | its funny how there's conspiracy theories both ways | 21:51 |
gloops | explore fuck off and die | 21:51 |
davros | "it's all exagerated, it's just flu and the people would have died anyway" versus "china hides the true deathtoll whihc is much worse" | 21:51 |
mefistofeles | explore: respect | 21:51 |
mefistofeles | explore: that was uncalled for | 21:51 |
Xip | When it comes to water, there are certain chemicals you need to have clean drinking water | 21:52 |
Xip | It will have some issues in the coming months | 21:52 |
mefistofeles | I just trust we are smart enough not to fall into that game and solve things with insults like little kids | 21:52 |
explore | nah, ignoring logic and starting anti-science bullshit to further political and racial agendas is uncalled for | 21:52 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: NYC hospital plays 'Don't Stop Believin'' every time a COVID-19 patient is discharged (10050 votes) | https://redd.it/g134du | 21:52 |
mefistofeles | explore: sure it is, but there's nothing forbidding you to think that way | 21:52 |
mefistofeles | there'sa right to be ignorant or stupid or whatever that is | 21:53 |
mefistofeles | explore: and you insulting someone because of that, crosses a line | 21:53 |
explore | i didn't insult him | 21:53 |
Xip | Look into your countries and where you are in the supply chain, because everything is falling apart | 21:53 |
explore | i insulted his words | 21:53 |
mefistofeles | explore: ok, yes, but pretty close, that's why you were not kicked :P | 21:53 |
\n3p\ | ratial agenda? who? where? | 21:53 |
mefistofeles | explore: even so, inciting violence is not welcomed | 21:54 |
Xip | Next few months will be even worse | 21:54 |
mefistofeles | and not needed, again, I just trust people here are smart enough to ignore gloops or whoever crazy talk | 21:54 |
explore | mefistofeles: are you totally confused? did i tell him to fuck off and die or did he me? | 21:54 |
explore | mefistofeles: shouldn't you be reprimending him? | 21:54 |
mefistofeles | explore: he left | 21:54 |
Xip | Just saying.. | 21:54 |
explore | mefistofeles: or are you just like.. the same bullshit as him? | 21:54 |
mefistofeles | explore: and he reacted that way because of you | 21:54 |
explore | mefistofeles: i can't tell any more | 21:54 |
mefistofeles | explore: ok, bye bye | 21:54 |
mefistofeles | relax ;) | 21:55 |
Xip | What we need to do is make sure we help each other | 21:55 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 19:49 UTC: Coronavirus: One in five deaths now linked to virus: Coronavirus prompts spike in mortality with data showing weekly deaths have hit a record high. → https://is.gd/l3X2lX | 21:55 |
\n3p\ | No way! Save yourself Xip | 21:55 |
Xip | \n3p\, =) | 21:55 |
\n3p\ | :) | 21:56 |
Xip | \n3p\, I rather die than help myself. I wanted to kill myself years ago for my alcoholism and cocaine abuse | 21:56 |
Xip | \n3p\, If the gov fails, we will show true solidarity | 21:57 |
Xip | No gov bails | 21:57 |
\n3p\ | I'm a believer of natural selection. | 21:57 |
Xip | Same same, but I mean, no banker bailout here | 21:58 |
\n3p\ | Xip, agree on that | 21:58 |
Xip | We'll hang them if they think they can get some millions out of this mess | 21:58 |
\n3p\ | Capitalism means let the assholes broke! | 21:58 |
\n3p\ | broke > bankrupt | 21:59 |
Xip | I promise you this, I will use everything I have to help everyone to the end, and I kill myself in the end if it doesn't work | 21:59 |
Xip | Bitcoin is not a joke, it's a hedge | 22:00 |
bin_bash | bitcoin is a joke | 22:00 |
mefistofeles | what if we talk about something more covid-19 related and not individual feelings/problems? :) | 22:00 |
Xip | bin_bash, as mefistofeles said | 22:00 |
Xip | But I mean it. | 22:00 |
bin_bash | bitcoin is a joke, this is not an individual problem | 22:01 |
pokiehl | hahaha | 22:01 |
Xip | And PM me if you got true economical issues and I will do my best to help you. | 22:01 |
Xip | "haha"... | 22:01 |
Xip | There's a reason Bitcoin exists. It's a hedge. | 22:01 |
bin_bash | i don't have economic problems, i'm making money by pushing buttons | 22:02 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:59 UTC: (news): Doctors worry the coronavirus is keeping patients away from US hospitals as ER visits drop: 'Heart attacks don't stop' → https://is.gd/wptkpy | 22:02 |
Xip | I've helped maybe 30 people here on Freenode | 22:02 |
bin_bash | good for you | 22:03 |
Xip | I could do nothing? | 22:03 |
bin_bash | you could, yeah | 22:03 |
Xip | Mm | 22:03 |
Xip | bin_bash, Need help? | 22:03 |
bin_bash | with what | 22:03 |
Xip | Economically? | 22:03 |
Arsanerit | The regional news here was reporting that the university hospital in Frankfurt has 176 ICU and only 18 of them are occupied because the measures to slow down the pandemic are working reasonably well so far. | 22:04 |
bin_bash | did you not read what i said | 22:04 |
Arsanerit | bitcoin as a practical currency is a joke, because it is a gambling hedge | 22:04 |
Xip | Jack from Twitter he moves a third of his cash to UBI now | 22:05 |
Arsanerit | it is also terribly energy-intensive, so the idea of "free" transfers is a lie | 22:05 |
bin_bash | it's not even a hedge | 22:05 |
Xip | But we are just people | 22:05 |
Xip | We need to all do that | 22:05 |
Xip | This is real money | 22:05 |
Arsanerit | what does "real money" even mean? | 22:05 |
Xip | We made those cash, someone gave us that | 22:05 |
Arsanerit | imho money isn't real | 22:06 |
Xip | Money is not real? | 22:06 |
Arsanerit | if we stop believing in money it will have no more value | 22:06 |
Arsanerit | money is not real | 22:06 |
Xip | Arsanerit, So if I give you 10 thousand dollars right now.. it's not real? | 22:06 |
Arsanerit | Xip: If a stranger on the internet gives you 10 thousand dollars for nothing, it is almost certainly a scam :-) | 22:07 |
bin_bash | or a nigerian prince | 22:07 |
Xip | Well of course it's real | 22:07 |
Xip | The world has not collapsed | 22:07 |
Xip | And it won't | 22:08 |
Arsanerit | the value of money only exists because people believe in it | 22:08 |
Xip | What a sick world that world it would be | 22:08 |
Xip | NOTHING is fake in the fiat system, there are so many checks you would have to be insane to think otherwise | 22:09 |
Xip | You think the dollar can not collapse? | 22:09 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 20:07 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: A domani → https://is.gd/03Lehn | 22:09 |
Arsanerit | of course the dollar can collapse | 22:10 |
mefistofeles | the dollar collapses respect others, so, which? | 22:10 |
mefistofeles | I don't see others doing any better | 22:10 |
kPa | It's not going to because the majority of the world is worse off and so people are buying dollars as a hedge. | 22:11 |
mefistofeles | specially the already big ones | 22:11 |
Arsanerit | I don't think the dollar will collapse, but it can. | 22:11 |
Arsanerit | Everything can collapse. Humanity is finite. | 22:11 |
kPa | Certainly it can | 22:11 |
Xip | I'd buy some Bitcoin, if I had any dollars. It's strong now. | 22:11 |
Xip | We are moving to that era, it's going to happen. It's real. | 22:12 |
kPa | Why would you buy bitcoin? | 22:12 |
Arsanerit | Bitcoin can certainly collapse. | 22:12 |
Arsanerit | kPa: gambling addiction? | 22:12 |
Arsanerit | no more horse races to gamble so bitcoin? | 22:13 |
Xip | Because this is when Bitcoin takes off. | 22:13 |
Xip | Don't take my word for it. | 22:13 |
kPa | Why would it take off? | 22:13 |
bin_bash | LOL | 22:13 |
\n3p\ | Arsanerit, Euro can certainly collapse. | 22:13 |
kPa | Arsanerit: life is gambling | 22:13 |
Xip | Why? | 22:13 |
Xip | Because the world economy will collapse. | 22:14 |
bin_bash | hahahahahahahhaa | 22:14 |
kPa | If the world economy collapsed, why would Bitcoin take off? | 22:14 |
Arsanerit | \n3p\: certainly | 22:14 |
Xip | Let's see.. | 22:14 |
\n3p\ | In Gold We Trust | 22:14 |
Xip | Sorry, gold is good too.. | 22:14 |
Xip | But only if you got it phyiscally.. | 22:15 |
Arsanerit | good luck eating your bitcoin | 22:15 |
kPa | ^ | 22:15 |
kPa | or eating your gold | 22:15 |
Xip | I got a farm | 22:15 |
Arsanerit | farm more useful than bitcoin or gold | 22:15 |
kPa | The whole point of a hedge is that you cash it in when things go arwy. Everybody cannot cash in their hedges at the same time. | 22:15 |
Xip | I'm self sufficient, I'm a prepper | 22:15 |
Arsanerit | assuming you know how to work it | 22:15 |
mefistofeles | I can buy your farm with bitcoin or gold :P | 22:15 |
Arsanerit | if you have cash to hedge you're better off than the large majority of humanity | 22:16 |
Xip | mefistofeles, You can buy my farm with Bitcoin? I got more Bitcoin than you I am sure | 22:16 |
mefistofeles | Xip: you cannot know for certain ;) | 22:16 |
pokiehl | You'd also need him to agree to selling it :P | 22:16 |
Xip | mefistofeles, So I'd sell my farm so me and my family would starve | 22:17 |
Xip | mefistofeles, I'm talking about end game | 22:17 |
mefistofeles | pokiehl: true | 22:17 |
mefistofeles | but there are plenty of people that would agree to that | 22:17 |
mefistofeles | if not Xip | 22:17 |
kPa | Let's say the economy totally collapses like you are suggesting. In such a sitution nobody would have electric power. I don't see how bitcoin is advantageous over USD or EUR or JPY at that rate. | 22:17 |
Xip | mefistofeles, I am saying, Bitcoin could be useful in the end | 22:17 |
mefistofeles | Xip: ok | 22:18 |
Xip | mefistofeles, We need to keep the economy going once the govs collapse | 22:18 |
kPa | Xip: if you're foreseeing a total economic meltdown, BTC will have all the same problems as any other currency. | 22:18 |
Xip | mefistofeles, Want me to post you gold by mail? | 22:18 |
mefistofeles | not going to happen and the solution to that hypothetical case isn't Bitcoin either | 22:18 |
kPa | As if mail still existed in your scenario | 22:18 |
Xip | kPa, Why? | 22:18 |
Xip | kPa, ight | 22:18 |
Xip | kPa, It takes me a millisecond to send you btc | 22:19 |
Xip | kPa, Cost me nothing | 22:19 |
kPa | With no electric power? How? | 22:19 |
Xip | People think that theres some end to bandwith | 22:19 |
Xip | It's bullshit | 22:19 |
kPa | Everyone will revert to bartering in the scenario you are saying will cause BTC to take off into the stratosphere. | 22:19 |
Urchin | `https://xkcd.com/2293/ | 22:19 |
Xip | The truth is there is no end to broadband | 22:20 |
Xip | In fact you can send unlimited data in broadband =) | 22:20 |
Xip | It's fake news | 22:20 |
Xip | Data is cheap | 22:20 |
kPa | If there's no electricity you can't even send a single byte. | 22:20 |
Urchin | there are limits to infrastructure, Xip | 22:20 |
Xip | Urchin, I know that, but just about the transfer here | 22:20 |
kPa | The fact that you're assinging a cost to data implies it's limited, and it is limited. Your ISPs trade bandwidth wholesale with eachother. | 22:20 |
Xip | The channels are basically free | 22:21 |
kPa | No. | 22:21 |
rager | even in pre-monetary days, bartering isn't what happened | 22:21 |
kPa | There is no marginal cost to you. | 22:21 |
rager | people instead developed long-running mutualistic relationships | 22:21 |
rager | abstract exchange of value requires agreed-upon monetary units | 22:21 |
Xip | Storing things is one thing | 22:21 |
Urchin | there's a pretty large expense in making the infrastructure | 22:21 |
kPa | And keeping it powered | 22:21 |
Urchin | data cables, satellites, etc. | 22:21 |
Xip | But we could make a very cheap Internet | 22:21 |
kPa | It's already very cheap. | 22:22 |
Xip | Anyway | 22:22 |
Xip | Internet is cheap | 22:22 |
Xip | So don't worry about it | 22:22 |
kPa | But you will have no interent without power. | 22:22 |
Xip | We got nuclear power | 22:22 |
Xip | We already overcome this whole thing | 22:23 |
kPa | Who's goign to pay the engineers to keep it running, and the people to keep the transmission lines up if money has no value now? | 22:23 |
mefistofeles | lol | 22:23 |
Xip | They get Bitcoin | 22:23 |
mefistofeles | are we really discussing this seriously? xD | 22:23 |
Xip | All people that got Bitcoin will naturally pay them until we got it going | 22:24 |
kPa | xip, then it's not total economic collapse | 22:24 |
bin_bash | your argument is circular Xip | 22:24 |
Xip | kPa, It's a collapse of the states | 22:24 |
kPa | you think the governments will collapse, but the economy won't? | 22:24 |
Xip | kPa, Mhm | 22:24 |
kPa | then hodl your USDs and EURs and JPYs | 22:25 |
kPa | since they'll still be worth something | 22:25 |
kPa | you said it yourself. | 22:25 |
Xip | I'll hold on to my BTC =) | 22:25 |
bin_bash | yeah hold it all the way to 0 | 22:25 |
Xip | What I do think will happen though is this... | 22:26 |
Xip | Once things crumble, they will not want BTC | 22:26 |
Xip | They will use their own coins and possibly safe ways to keep them | 22:26 |
bin_bash | your argument is circular Xip | 22:26 |
Xip | in their own communities | 22:26 |
Xip | Well let me rant or? | 22:27 |
Xip | No nevermind... | 22:27 |
bin_bash | no | 22:27 |
Xip | It'll turn alright! | 22:27 |
kPa | there is no economically meaningful difference in what you are suggesting | 22:27 |
Xip | Things will turn alright | 22:27 |
Xip | We will find a way | 22:27 |
LjL | tutto andrà bene | 22:28 |
Xip | But we will want to deal with our partners | 22:28 |
Xip | Recently I had an employee that I suggested should get a btc based card | 22:28 |
Xip | It was stuck, but that is just because in his country, he had do this and that | 22:29 |
Xip | Internet will never go away | 22:29 |
Xip | We are stuck with the web now | 22:29 |
bin_bash | ok so you decided to rant anyway | 22:30 |
Xip | Mhm | 22:30 |
Xip | But sometimes rants are good | 22:30 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:18 UTC: US coronavirus death toll passes 25,000 – live: Cuomo says he will not be forced to unsafely open economy Trump claims ‘total authority’ and attacks media in chaotic briefing Live global updates See all our coronavirus coverage Support the Guardian’s independent journalism. Make a contribution 9.18pm BST → https://is.gd/M1D0Ze | 22:30 |
Xip | We are all humans here, and I am sure most of us are good people | 22:31 |
Xip | I was lucky to get so much, more than I could ever ask for and I've already "gave away" more than 2/3 of what I made | 22:32 |
kPa | Some of us here are bots | 22:32 |
Xip | I am not one | 22:32 |
Xip | And if I was, I am a shitty one | 22:32 |
Xip | Drug abusing, drunk bot | 22:33 |
pokiehl | That's nice of you Xip | 22:33 |
Xip | We are going to have to rethink everything | 22:34 |
ynhof[m] | I haven't paidmuch attention til recently and notice altenative condom sizes are hard to come by at stores. | 22:34 |
ynhof[m] | Idk if its a covid thing, have any of you noticed | 22:34 |
Xip | All we got is some old school philosophy shit, like socialism, capitalism.. | 22:34 |
Xip | Are we not smart enough to think of something that truly resonates with the era we are in now? | 22:35 |
Xip | Of course we are, but we are so fast to attack each other "You're a lunatic!" | 22:35 |
Xip | We need to calm down and think, what the hell are we supposed to do, maybe UBI? | 22:36 |
mefistofeles | ynhof[m]: appreantly condoms increased significantly in sales | 22:36 |
mefistofeles | so that may explain it | 22:36 |
Xip | What happens if we rape the state with UBI? What should we do after that? | 22:36 |
Xip | We need a plan, what should we do, once we go UBI, because that is the endgame right now. | 22:37 |
pokiehl | Well UBI assumes the extistence of a "state" maybe we could even think outside that | 22:38 |
Xip | What kind of future do we want? We need to think together. We need to come together. And stop arguing. | 22:38 |
Xip | All humans need to be together, we leave no one behind. | 22:38 |
kPa | And the future you want is Bitcoin? | 22:41 |
Xip | kPa, Hell no | 22:41 |
pepee | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJX7ZFYspeU | 22:42 |
Brainstorm | pepee: From www.youtube.com: DIY Water Filter! (w/manual siphon pump!) - Off-Grid Water Purifier! cleans water fast! ppm rds - YouTube | 22:42 |
pepee | no, wait, wrong link | 22:42 |
pepee | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJvU81DKgk | 22:42 |
Brainstorm | pepee: From www.youtube.com: Covid-19 : LaVision imaging technique shows how masks restrict the spread of exhaled air - YouTube | 22:42 |
Xip | I will dump Bitcoin the moment I know that love is real | 22:42 |
Xip | Slowly towards goals | 22:43 |
Xip | To multiple decentralized coins | 22:43 |
Xip | And I will show my face too | 22:44 |
Xip | And I will tell other people I know that got major holdings to do so too | 22:44 |
Xip | TO make it fair | 22:44 |
kPa | -.- | 22:45 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 20:43 UTC: ljl-covid: Add April 6 CP PC → https://is.gd/XIEUR5 | 22:45 |
bin_bash | love is totally real, it's a series of chemical reactions in your brain just like everything else | 22:45 |
bin_bash | sell your bitcoin now | 22:46 |
Xip | My idea is anyway that slowly.. we will find a way | 22:47 |
Xip | Where the new era will show their faces and I will convince them too | 22:47 |
kPa | woah um LjL that's a lot of commitment | 22:49 |
LjL | kPa, i'm trying to beat the amount of lines fellow here manages to rant out | 22:50 |
LjL | also, seems silly to let dpaste.org posts all expire, useless as there press conferences may be | 22:50 |
Xip | I don't think Bitcoin is a good thing and the faster we get rid of it, the better, we should have multiple decentralized coins, especially those that can prove themselves that require less work, as in.. machine work | 22:50 |
Xip | But the only concept that works now as it seems is proof is stake | 22:50 |
Xip | Now I am a major stake holder.. of proof of stake coins... | 22:51 |
Xip | And so is most libertarians from the old times... | 22:51 |
Xip | So it is a paradox | 22:51 |
LjL | isn't this a bit far aware from the COVID topic? | 22:52 |
LjL | away* | 22:52 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 20:47 UTC: ljl-covid: Add April 3 CP PC → https://is.gd/IK5wHH | 22:52 |
Xip | LjL, Yeah.. Sorry. | 22:52 |
Xip | So.. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. | 22:53 |
kPa | LOL LjL | 22:54 |
Xip | kPa, LjL is a genius | 22:54 |
Xip | kPa, Don't take him for granted | 22:54 |
kPa | ??? | 22:55 |
Xip | kPa, I see him as an intellectual that took his time to make this channel | 22:56 |
kPa | What does any of that have to do with what I said? | 22:57 |
Xip | kPa, Seemed like you made fun of LjL, he's not just "anyone" | 22:58 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 20:56 UTC: Add March 3 CP PC: This is an early one, partially copyedited but further editing will be needed → https://is.gd/aykDj1 | 22:59 |
LjL | Xip, when i need a lawyer i'll give you a call :P | 22:59 |
LjL | but right now i can defend my own actions fine! | 22:59 |
LjL | also trust me if i were a genius i wouldn't be here copypasting hastily translated press conferences | 22:59 |
kPa | I was lauging at LjL's joke o.O | 23:00 |
Xip | kPa, Where are you at? | 23:01 |
bin_bash | -at* | 23:02 |
kPa | I'm connected to Server: kornbluth.freenode.net (Frankfurt, Germany) | 23:03 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 21:04 UTC: ljl-covid: Add March 22 CP PC → https://is.gd/on4YoK | 23:06 |
Xip | Personally I think it's dangerous to close down entire countries' economic systems, I guess that was the point. But we'll see when it is over. | 23:06 |
LjL | i don't think anybody thinks it's NOT dangerous. if anything they think it's (slightly?) less dangerous than most people getting COVID. | 23:07 |
kPa | ^ | 23:07 |
Xip | Unless it's a control group in a massive experiment. | 23:08 |
Xip | WHO knows? | 23:08 |
LjL | groan | 23:08 |
kPa | ^ | 23:08 |
Xip | WHO knows really... | 23:08 |
\n3p\ | USA +2154 deaths today | 23:10 |
mefistofeles | Derek again, pretty good info on virus https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/13/omeprazole-as-an-additive-for-coronavirus-therapy | 23:10 |
Xip | They didn't lock down the world for the climate crisis did they. | 23:12 |
Xip | Now you can see they could. Any time. | 23:13 |
mefistofeles | Xip: it's not sure that will solve the crisis, we should already stop pretending the climate crisis/apocalypse can be stopped | 23:13 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:09 UTC: (news): US airlines, Treasury Department reach agreement in principle on billions in coronavirus aid → https://is.gd/vSoE45 | 23:13 |
mefistofeles | whereas the virus, it's likely to be stopped that way, and has been stopped that way | 23:13 |
Xip | Next one, alien attack? | 23:13 |
lf94 | Heh, the other day h3h3 reminded me of a site I used to visit | 23:14 |
lf94 | exitmundi | 23:14 |
lf94 | Who remembers that? | 23:14 |
Xip | I loved it | 23:14 |
mefistofeles | not me | 23:14 |
Xip | lf94, my favorite site | 23:14 |
lf94 | Yeah it's a good one | 23:14 |
Xip | lf94, Still up? | 23:14 |
lf94 | Probably *checks* | 23:14 |
lf94 | Yep! | 23:15 |
lf94 | In all its 2000s glory | 23:15 |
Xip | lf94, Id even had so nice images | 23:15 |
lf94 | http://www.exitmundi.nl/virus.htm | 23:15 |
Xip | lf94, First one that made me think about the "simulation theory" but more like the ... "pull the plug theory then" | 23:15 |
lf94 | exitmundi predicted it 30 years ago | 23:16 |
mefistofeles | so it’s not just a simple “the more ACE2 the worse” situation | 23:16 |
Xip | lf94, So old! Thank you for reminding me, know who made it? | 23:16 |
lf94 | no | 23:16 |
Xip | lf94, Exitmundi was some guy here I think | 23:16 |
lf94 | I think it may be the _only_ non-corporate site I've seen still up since I was 8 years old | 23:17 |
Xip | lf94, Every possible way the world could end | 23:17 |
Xip | lf94, It meant a lot for me too | 23:17 |
Xip | lf94, Hey, I got a video for you, since you are a bit exitmundi... | 23:17 |
Xip | lj9: Seen this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N5lgUgAQ-g | 23:18 |
Xip | lj9: If not you will probably enjoy it | 23:18 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 21:15 UTC: ljl-covid: Create 2020-04-01-Press-Conference.txt → https://is.gd/PlFJUD | 23:20 |
mefistofeles | https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/health/disinfectant-coronavirus.html interesting, Derek Lowe also said something about the lack of impact of this when the epidemic was spiking in China | 23:24 |
mefistofeles | %title | 23:24 |
Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From www.nytimes.com: Does Widespread Disinfecting Kill the Coronavirus? It’s Under Debate - The New York Times | 23:24 |
Xip | This is also interesting whenever you went through that one | 23:26 |
Xip | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N5lgUgAQ-g | 23:26 |
Xip | The truth is we don't know, but personally I think it's weird why Strawberries are so great and jumps in evolution | 23:27 |
Xip | It's a fight | 23:27 |
Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:23 UTC: (news): New York Gov. Cuomo says Trump will have 'no fight with me' on coronavirus, but he's 'wrong' on the law → https://is.gd/t2yhu4 | 23:27 |
eleklytr[m] | !cases usa | 23:27 |
CovBot | In United States there have been a total of 610,206 cases as of 2020-04-14 21:13:00 UTC. Of these 545,856 (89.5%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 38,520 (6.3%) have definitely recovered and 25,830 (4.2%) have died. | 23:28 |
Xip | Viruses are part of the universal panspermia | 23:28 |
Xip | The before and after | 23:28 |
Xip | Could be | 23:29 |
Xip | If we change something in the end, maybe we change ourselves | 23:30 |
eleklytr[m] | !cases germany | 23:31 |
CovBot | In Germany there have been a total of 131,359 cases as of 2020-04-14 21:13:00 UTC. Of these 59,865 (45.6%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 68,200 (51.9%) have definitely recovered and 3,294 (2.5%) have died. | 23:32 |
Shock | %data netherlands | 23:33 |
Brainstorm | Shock: In all areas, Netherlands, there are 27419 cases (0.2% of the population) and 2945 deaths (10.7% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 134972 tests were performed (20.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands for time series data. | 23:33 |
Shock | does any bot here report the case fatality rate? | 23:34 |
Xip | Alright guys, I'm going... | 23:36 |
Xip | Maybe 1-2 weeks. But what I said. About panspermia. Maybe we as an advanced civ, we could force the next one to spawn viruss... | 23:37 |
Xip | It's not so mind blowing is it? Is it impossible? | 23:37 |
Xip | We're just in a bubble anyway, in some kind of freak nature. Don't be afriad. | 23:38 |
ryouma | i don't think there is teleology or natural order at work her | 23:39 |
LjL | Shock, in a sense | 23:39 |
LjL | %cases | 23:39 |
ryouma | it is just a virus | 23:39 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, worldwide, there are 2.0 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 125602 deaths (6.3% of cases) as of 4 minutes ago. 15.7 million tests were performed (12.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 23:39 |
Xip | I'm afraid | 23:39 |
LjL | Shock, but you must keep in mind that the case fatality rate can only be reported *accurately* after an epidemic ends. this is just a crude deaths/cases number | 23:40 |
Shock | LjL: | 23:40 |
Xip | Not afraid about this virus, but about the world, and the existence | 23:40 |
Shock | * LjL: I think that's the mortality rate | 23:40 |
LjL | Shock, no, mortality is over the whole population | 23:40 |
Xip | I want us to be friends, all of us | 23:40 |
Xip | Like buddies | 23:40 |
Xip | It's why we made IRC | 23:41 |
Shock | LjL: I'm interested to see out of the closed cases how many died and how many got well | 23:41 |
LjL | Shock, case fatality rate can be calculated as deaths/cases, or in other words deaths/(deaths+recoveries), once an epidemic has ended | 23:41 |
LjL | Shock, yes, the bot does report that too | 23:41 |
LjL | but only when it "makes sense", because i've got complaints | 23:41 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:39 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Vicky Ward su Twitter: "According to a new study from the Harvard School of Public Health, the U.S. may have to keep social distancing measures in place until 2022 unless a vaccine becomes available. https://t.co/N3rZM41IKj" → https://is.gd/qezagc | 23:41 |
Shock | what complaints? | 23:41 |
Xip | Anyway, I got to go... | 23:41 |
LjL | so for a country where that calculation doesn't give a ludicrous number, like say 25%, it reports it | 23:41 |
LjL | Shock, i've tried to make it clear in the bot's message that "your" kind of CFR estimate is an upper boundary | 23:42 |
Xip | Take care guys! | 23:42 |
LjL | but people were still unhappy at seeing huge numbers | 23:42 |
LjL | so if it's above 20% the bot just doesn't mention it | 23:42 |
Shock | wtf | 23:42 |
LjL | bye Xip | 23:42 |
Shock | reality is reality | 23:42 |
LjL | Shock, well, it's not much of a "reality" | 23:42 |
LjL | the recovery figures are all over the place | 23:42 |
LjL | each countries reports them very differently, and usually in an extremely delayed way, on average | 23:42 |
Xip | It's so strange that we even exist at all | 23:42 |
LjL | so the result tends to be a very high percentage that is honestly waaaaay higher than reality... and reality is bad enough i suspect | 23:43 |
Shock | well, I'm not interested in the living dead (active cases) | 23:43 |
Shock | I'm interested to see of the cases which had an outcome, what was the outcome | 23:43 |
LjL | Shock, well, if you want deaths/(deaths+recoveries), you cannot ignore that deaths+recoveries is often a *fraction* of the active cases, who are *still* to either die or recover, and probably in different percentage than the former | 23:43 |
sternenmusik[m] | No reliable tracking of the outcome. | 23:44 |
LjL | Shock, anyway, do you have a specific country in mind? there's also another bot that i believe gives that kind of CFR with looser boundaries | 23:44 |
Shock | LjL: netherlands | 23:44 |
LjL | let's see then | 23:44 |
LjL | %cases nl | 23:44 |
Brainstorm | LjL: In all areas, Netherlands, there are 27419 cases (0.2% of the population) and 2945 deaths (10.7% of cases) as of 9 minutes ago. 134972 tests were performed (20.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands for time series data. | 23:44 |
sternenmusik[m] | I was extremely worried about the 21% but it cant be true. | 23:44 |
LjL | i guess not | 23:44 |
LjL | !covid netherlands | 23:44 |
CoronaBot | The Netherlands: Global rank: #11, cases: 27,419 (+868), fatalities: 2,945 (+122), active cases: 24,224, total recovered: 250, in a serious condition: 1,358. Mortality: 10.74%, case fatality rate: 92.18%, cases/1M: 1600.0, deaths/1M: 172.0. Case rate: 964/24h, death rate: 86/24h. Tests: 134,972, tests/1M: 7,877. | 23:44 |
LjL | yeah, look at that | 23:45 |
LjL | case fatality rate according to what you wanted is 92% | 23:45 |
LjL | this is why my bot wouldn't report that | 23:45 |
Shock | LjL: thank you | 23:45 |
LjL | obviously, not 92% of patients are dying. it's just recoveries aren't being reported | 23:45 |
Shock | yes they are | 23:45 |
LjL | clearly much worse than deaths are | 23:45 |
Shock | they've reported them in batches previously, but now I see daily increases | 23:45 |
LjL | well rest assured the true fatality of covid is not 92% in any population | 23:46 |
Shock | !covid germany | 23:46 |
CoronaBot | Germany: Global rank: #5, cases: 131,359 (+1,287), fatalities: 3,294 (+100), active cases: 59,865, total recovered: 68,200, in a serious condition: 4,288. Mortality: 2.51%, case fatality rate: 4.61%, cases/1M: 1568.0, deaths/1M: 39.0. Case rate: 2,218/24h, death rate: 172/24h. Tests: 1,317,887, tests/1M: 15,730. | 23:46 |
rager | recovery is sloowwww | 23:46 |
rager | for the most vulnerable, death is fast | 23:46 |
Shock | LjL: no, probably not | 23:46 |
LjL | yes that's one thing, recovery is slow, but reporting of recoveries is often even slower | 23:46 |
Shock | LjL: it would be an extinction level event if it were that high | 23:47 |
LjL | now Germany has a low rate in general, but clearly they're also doing a better (or just faster?) job at reporting recoveries | 23:47 |
Shock | hey, look at that CFR for germany is 4.62 | 23:47 |
rager | germany in general has seem to have avoided being overwhelmed | 23:48 |
LjL | if you look at the https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands graph for recoveries it does looks very... different from the other two graphs, even when you ignore the part where they weren't reporting them at all | 23:48 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:40 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Italy sees lowest increase in infections for a month as global cases near 2 million → https://is.gd/dXv9QM | 23:48 |
LjL | Shock, note that what CoronaBot calls "mortality" isn't mortality (i.e. isn't over the whole population). it's again just deaths/cases | 23:48 |
Shock | yes, that is true | 23:48 |
LjL | Brainstorm's headline is stupid, we tested half as much as yesterday. "Lowest increase", sure, if we don't test... but also, the deaths are more than yesterday | 23:49 |
Shock | LjL: noted | 23:49 |
Shock | !covid italy | 23:49 |
CoronaBot | Italy: Global rank: #3, cases: 162,488 (+2,972), fatalities: 21,067 (+602), active cases: 104,291, total recovered: 37,130, in a serious condition: 3,186. Mortality: 12.97%, case fatality rate: 36.20%, cases/1M: 2687.0, deaths/1M: 348.0. Case rate: 3,153/24h, death rate: 566/24h. Tests: 1,073,689, tests/1M: 17,758. | 23:49 |
Shock | how is Italy doing on reporting recoveries? | 23:50 |
LjL | probably the last of their concern... i will say they are being reported, and they kind of make a point of mentioning recoveries in the daily press conferences | 23:51 |
sternenmusik[m] | Elderly people with basic diseases, as long as they have pneumonia, were clinically a high-risk factor regardless of whether it is a coronavirus or not, and the case fatality rate was also very high, so it is not that the case fatality rate of pneumonia is high because of the infection with the new Coronavirus. | 23:51 |
LjL | (to the point that "new cases" are usually reported as new cases - (deaths + recoveries) which is just annoying/offensive) | 23:51 |
Shock | so the 30% CFR is within the realm of possibility? | 23:51 |
LjL | Shock, but i'd say italy's recovery chart looks at least plausaible https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy - as in they are still delayed, but the graph looks barely more jittery than the cases and deaths graphs | 23:52 |
LjL | Shock, hell i sure hope not. hospitalizations and ICU admissions are going down now, and i hope even the 13% deaths/cases number is an overestimate | 23:52 |
LjL | which it can be for at least two reasons | 23:52 |
LjL | 1) cases are going down, but deaths will only go down in a delayed fashion, so in the meanwhile, that percentage goes up | 23:53 |
sternenmusik[m] | 30% cfr would lead to anarchy in less then 4 weeks. | 23:53 |
LjL | 2) we're way too busy testing almost-certainly-positive cases to go around testing people who only have a fever (or, really, in many case, much more than that), so hopefully there are many recoveries that are never counted as cases | 23:53 |
\n3p\ | Taiwan: Robot Fans Cheer at World’s First Baseball Game Since Pandemic https://focustaiwan.tw/sports/202004120011 | 23:53 |
ryouma | 14:51 <LjL> (to the point that "new cases" are usually reported as new cases - (deaths + recoveries) which is just annoying/offensive) | 23:54 |
ryouma | redefinition of new | 23:54 |
Shock | but those cases would not be reported as deaths also, correct? | 23:54 |
Shock | do you test all the dead for sars-cov-2? | 23:54 |
Shock | I assume not | 23:54 |
Shock | it would be wasteful | 23:54 |
LjL | Shock, we *know* for a fact that in general, the time to recover from this disease, if you do recover, is much longer than the time it takes to die, which in italy was quoted as a scarily short amount of days in one of the press conferences (5 or so, but i would have to check). so while 30% is an upper boundary, i wouldn't say it's in the realm of actual possibilities. we know that even if we do a good job tracking recoveries, they lag behind. | 23:54 |
sternenmusik[m] | Did I tell you that I know recovered people in o Wer rson who returned sick from China and have not been tested? | 23:55 |
LjL | Shock, yes, there are definitely also cases that end up in deaths and are never reported as COVID at all, and we can see that when we look at overall mortality in northern Italy compared to mortality in other years | 23:55 |
Shock | I've read that it takes on average 17.4 days to die from first symptoms | 23:55 |
LjL | Shock, and there are reports of whole nursing homes where no one's getting tested, yet many are dying | 23:55 |
LjL | Shock, however, it is natural to presume that there is a bias towards testing more serious cases compared to milder cases, from which it follows that milder cases, which are more likely to recover, are less likely to end up in the statistics | 23:56 |
rager | italy's underwater, so the response is going to be chaotic with an imperfect understanding of circumstances | 23:56 |
sternenmusik[m] | The numbers reported are not matching this kind of virus. | 23:56 |
rager | "this kind of virus" | 23:56 |
rager | what does that even mean? | 23:56 |
LjL | Shock, that may be true for the "general patient", but in Italy that was much shorter presumably due to seeing people in hospitals which were in terrible conditions, as the ones in less-than-terrible conditions were simply not being admitted | 23:56 |
Shock | LjL: well the numbers should start converging in a couple of months, I would think | 23:57 |
LjL | %tr Chi vivrà vedrà. | 23:57 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: Time will tell. (MyMemory, Google) — #Who will live will see. (Apertium) | 23:57 |
LjL | uhm | 23:57 |
LjL | that doesn't exactly capture the italian expression here | 23:57 |
LjL | but i guess Apertium's otherwise terrible translation does | 23:58 |
Shock | I understand it | 23:58 |
rager | it's a virus that causes pneumonia requiring extended hospital stays on ventilator support. nothing like this has really shown up with this level of infectiousness | 23:59 |
sternenmusik[m] | <rager ""this kind of virus""> yes its a virus, like ten thousands of other viruses | 23:59 |
LjL | ryouma, and yeah, seriously, i was mad when i first realized they were doing that. it does have a *bit* of significance in that it's an indicator of how much more crowded hospitals are going to get... but i think it's quite offensive to the dead's relatives, at least, to have them "subtracted" from new cases. that was the part that i thought was too much even for some PR number trickery. | 23:59 |
rager | you can draw circles around words, but that doesn't make them meaningful, sternenmusik | 23:59 |
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