libera/##covid-19/ Tuesday, 2020-04-14

ubLIXtrump's output is not for you, it is for his base; if every progressive on the planet stopped watching trump, his intended message would still reach his base, but unalloyed. trump is a predator. one watches predators00:05
sternenmusik[m]<pyna "for the first time in my adult l"> ... looked into the mirror today and had to think of Eddie Hearn 😁😂00:05
pynathe base is already lost, doodz are in it. all we can do is flatten the curve, but it's worth it00:08
ubLIXstill necessary to know what he intends, and his navigation of his base is signal00:09
\n3p\Donald Trunp is the best President of USA since Abraham Lincoln and MSM is loosing  00:14
ubLIXis that sarcasm, \n3p\?00:16
\n3p\ubLIX, Look at the ratings. Clowns News Network is out the TOP 20 shows  00:17
LjL<CarlSagan_> [Ars Technica - Science] New COVID-19 dashboard just for the US offers rich, county-level data https://arstechnica.com/?p=1668009 2020-04-13T21:55:44 (spec)00:20
LjLalso maybe tinwhiskers although i doubt you want to change data source again lol00:21
\n3p\ubLIX, no sarcasm. Just NUMBERS https://imgur.com/drZdTnx00:22
ubLIXi was referring to your finding it possible to compare Trump favourably to Lincoln00:24
Butterfly^https://i.imgur.com/qhvNsIM.mp4  sound on00:24
LjLsuaefar[m], i don't know what the other graph is doing but good job on improving this every time00:24
\n3p\ubLIX, The same. Look at the economy of US before COVID-19. Trump against DNC, RNC and MSM did a GREAT WORK00:25
LjLcorrelation is not causation00:25
ubLIXhow's the economy doing now?00:26
ubLIXhas Trump fired Fauci yet?00:26
\n3p\What country is doing well now?00:26
suaefar[m]@LjL The other one is showing the inverse slope of the polynomial fit (i.e. days to double the number of the deceased) on the x-axis and the curvature relative to the slope, (i.e. in how many days the slope would   be zero if the trend continued)00:27
ubLIXTaiwan. Singapore.00:27
stinkpottrump fire fauci?00:28
ubLIXstinkpot: not yet that I know of, but tweets about it00:28
stinkpotthat would be disastrous to his image00:28
suaefar[m]High value on x-axis means slow exponential growth, low values indicate fast exponential growth. High value on y-axis means exponential growth is stable, low values mean exponential growth is slowing down (not exponential anymore)00:29
\n3p\US economy will rebound fast for 3QT. And Trump will be reelected even with votes from Bernie Bros. And that's all what i have to say about the topic because we are digressing 00:29
\n3p\Sorry for talking politics here. 00:30
lf94they are letting construction and miners back to work here in quebec00:31
lf94arent these people vulnerable?00:31
lf94arent their lungs already messed up ?...00:32
lf94sounds like a death sentence to some of them00:32
stinkpoti don't think so \n3p\ 00:32
LjLsuaefar[m], okay that description is clearer for me, i am not great at maths00:36
LjL%cases japan00:36
BrainstormLjL: In all areas, Japan, there are 7370 cases (0.0% of the population) and 130 deaths (1.8% of cases) as of a minute ago. 77381 tests were performed (9.5% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.6% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 14.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Japan for time series data.00:36
LjLjapan is quietly exponential00:37
suaefar[m]I experimented to get a better interpretation of the fitting parameter values. I can make the analysis for Japan.00:37
LjLsuaefar[m], what meaning would you give to being on one side or the other of the diagonal?00:38
LjLsuaefar[m], japan probably has too few deaths for your graphs to be meaningful, you'd have to do it on cases00:39
suaefar[m]LjL: The lower right one is probably okay, the upper left one is bad00:39
LjLokay, that's more or less what i was thinking00:39
LjLjust checking cause my brain is in power saving mode00:39
suaefar[m]Yes, looks very much exponential00:41
suaefar[m]I clip the curvature to 50, its probably much higher, but it does not matter... the scope of the analysis is much less than 50 days.00:42
stinkpottake more vitamin D ljl. i'm concerned you're whole country is deficient in Vit-D00:44
LjLsuaefar[m], maybe you could make this into a matrix bot that makes the graph on demand for one or more countries. others have questioned the validity of your polynomial fit but honestly i think you're just trying to do something useful to understand things, which is fine in my book...00:44
stinkpotjapanese eat tons of it through oily fish00:44
LjLstinkpot, it makes no sense to take more than the recommended daily intake...00:44
stinkpotok that's good enough00:44
suaefar[m]@LjL That would probably need more polishing. Is there a starter on how to build a matrix bot?00:46
LjLsuaefar[m], probably, but it would depend on the programming language too00:46
LjLsuaefar[m], anyway Brainstorm can operate over Matrix, so if i could do it, it's probably easy  ;)00:46
LjLthere's an example here https://github.com/shawnanastasio/python-matrix-bot-api/blob/master/example_bot.py00:48
Butterfly^https://i.imgur.com/bsFG4jf.jpg  Pastor gets the biggest dosage of karma00:49
ubLIXButterfly^: -vox for anything in the ballpark of a meme, if it's all the same to you00:50
Butterfly^it's news though00:51
Butterfly^covid related00:51
ubLIXsure, but that presentation isn't super tasteful00:52
Butterfly^spreading corona to 100's or 1000's of people isn't tasteful either00:52
Butterfly^which this pastor willingly did00:52
ubLIXlook, all i'm saying is vengeful karma is not this channel's tone00:53
lf94*pastor sneezes in holy water* may god be with you! *throws the holy water onto people*00:53
lf94This is some cartoon-level early 2000s comedy00:53
lf94Boondocks level00:53
suaefar[m]LjL: Would probably be possible to just call the Octave Script from Python and then upload the image. But now I have to sleep. The code and my standard analysis is available on GitHub: https://github.com/suaefar/covid-19-deceased-prediction00:54
LjLsuaefar[m], okay, i may have a look later. good night00:59
Butterfly^https://www.pscp.tv/w/1rmGPAmonqdJN?mode=couch  white house live press breiefing00:59
stinkpotlol boondocks01:01
python476I disagree with statistics 100% of the time01:09
\n3p\python476, lol with 99% of confidence intervals.01:12
bin_bashand a standard deviation of 001:12
\n3p\lol01:13
SilverZ%data Lebanon01:18
BrainstormSilverZ: In all areas, Lebanon, there are 632 cases (0.0% of the population) and 20 deaths (3.2% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 15408 tests were performed (4.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 19.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lebanon for time series data.01:18
Philippe[m]!covid lebanon01:18
CoronaBotLebanon: Global rank: #88, cases: 632 (+2), fatalities: 20, active cases: 532, total recovered: 80, in a serious condition: 34. Mortality: 3.16%, case fatality rate: 20.00%, cases/1M: 93.0, deaths/1M: 3.0. Case rate: 11/24h, death rate: 0/24h. Tests: 15,408, tests/1M: 2,257.01:18
python476\n3p\: bin_bash ^_____^01:19
python476I'm proud of that one, it's like the liar's paradox, statistic style01:20
SilverZwhy ?01:20
python476isn't it ?01:21
SilverZwhy is it a lie01:22
python476it's not a lie01:22
python476disagreeing with all statistics by using a statistical statement01:23
ynhof[m]Yep used to hear that one a lot back in school01:24
python476damn01:26
DocScrutinizer05RKI (corona.rki.de) raw data processing: https://termbin.com/ltvdf01:35
DocScrutinizer05https://i.imgur.com/c1VV46z.png01:36
linexthow's the curve doing?01:59
python476linext: the official one or the real one ?02:03
python476I cannot look at graphs anymore02:03
python476I have no idea 1) who's testing what, 2) who's distorting data to the point lying, 3) who cannot even count 02:03
linextpython476, seems like it went down a little today02:05
linextat least in new jersey, usa02:05
linextyesterday was 3699 new cases, today is 273402:06
pynai wonder how good various market prediction algorithms are at covid soothsaying02:12
pynanot cause it's a good tack to take, just cause i bet every trader-with-an-algorithm is working on it, cause you do what you know02:14
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Virginia pastor who defiantly held church service dies of coronavirus (10704 votes) | https://redd.it/g0rbav02:18
Chromanin%data Lebanon03:07
BrainstormChromanin: In all areas, Lebanon, there are 632 cases (0.0% of the population) and 20 deaths (3.2% of cases) as of a minute ago. 15408 tests were performed (4.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 19.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Lebanon for time series data.03:07
livebrain%data portugal03:31
Brainstormlivebrain: In all areas, Portugal, there are 16934 cases (0.2% of the population) and 535 deaths (3.2% of cases) as of 11 minutes ago. 182707 tests were performed (9.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Portugal for time series data.03:31
DocScrutinizer05python476: you should like `wget https://termbin.com/9cgcu -O s.sh && chmod +x s.sh && wget https://opendata.arcgis.com/datasets/dd4580c810204019a7b8eb3e0b329dd6_0.csv -O - | ./s.sh `  then ;-)04:11
DocScrutinizer05unlike RKI dashboard https://i.imgur.com/X616SHU.png my s.sh *can* count, and the .csv is german RKI raw data which is unlikely to be massively tampered04:13
DocScrutinizer05https://i.imgur.com/1hqucxW.png04:14
DocScrutinizer05showing new-cases/day04:14
ryoumawhat is the latest on steroid inhalers for those who have lung issues before getting covid?  is it looking like they should be taken at normal doses?  for both phases of covid?  (phase 1 being invasion and phase 2 being cytokine storm.)  i just paid 170 usd for an inhaler (oh say can you see).  cdc says just keep taking but provides nodetails and i don't trust them more than i can throw them.04:18
LjLryouma, wtf, 170 bucks for an inhaler?!04:20
LjLwhat are you inhaling, gold?04:21
LjLryouma, i don't think cytokine storm is something to be taken for granted... it may just not happen04:21
DocScrutinizer05170 bucks for a corticosteroid spray?04:21
ryoumaLjL: that is WITH insurance04:22
DocScrutinizer05anyway take your cortisone as your lung will be stronger when not suffering inflamatory effects04:22
LjLryouma, good god04:22
LjLreally what's in it?04:22
ryoumafluticasone or something.  just a steroid and a i-hope-not-bad-for-you supposedly-non-ozone-destroying propellant.  which supposedly lasts a month.04:23
LjLi'm unable to answer your question but note to self: never get sick in america04:24
ryoumai got it because i am wheezing a lot and was putting up with it because i didn't want to ask my doctor for samples and didn't want to pay 170 usd.  for many months.  then i asked my doctor through his office and ... dunno if it translated well, or dunno if it would be a hindrance for me to use up the samples.  so just ordered.  but it is !@#$ expensive.04:25
ryoumayes that is about it04:25
train1ryouma: just the magic of the market at work04:26
swift110hmm04:26
LjLryouma, i think you should focus most of your energies on... not getting covid04:26
LjLi know it's pretty hard04:26
ryoumaeverything else is also.  except clonazepam is like a few dollars.  but they force you to go through bureaucratic hoops to get that one.04:26
LjLbut you know the condition you're in, i don't think i need to say more04:26
ryoumaLjL: whether i get it depends on whether my carer gets it04:27
LjLryouma, i just swallowed 5 drops of it because i was feeling terribad from anxiety04:27
LjLi know04:27
LjLand i know it's hard to convince her04:27
ryoumait is not for anxiety.  it doesn't work for that for me.  it just is for sleep.04:27
LjLbut what i'm saying is... if you do get it, i suspect inhaler or no inhaler will make very little difference04:27
LjLryouma, nothing seems to work for sleep for me, except, at some point. Zyrtec (an antihistamine, 1.5-ish generation)04:28
ryoumamy thinkin is get my lungs in better shape now04:28
LjLthat's the brandname, i forget the active principle's name04:28
ryoumai take 3 cetirizine per day04:28
ryoumathat is zyrtec04:28
ryoumai thuoght it was 2nd generation but yes it hslpes slightly for sleep04:28
LjLah yeah it is04:28
train1probably makes you drowsy04:28
LjLryouma, yes it is technically second generation, but other second generation antihistamines do nothing about sleep for me04:29
LjLtrain1, it made me drowsy in a godo way. other things made me stay sleepy all day04:29
LjLwhen it worked, Zyrtec would just give me sound, calm sleep04:29
LjLbut now i'm taking other things and i don't think my body even notices a difference with Zyrtec anymore04:29
DocScrutinizer05anyway take your cortisone as your lung will be stronger when not suffering inflamatory effects04:30
LjLryouma, i may have asked already since i'm a broken record on some things: do you have a pulse oximeter?04:30
ryoumayes04:31
LjLfinally, someone who says yes04:31
LjLbut i guess most people normally don't need one04:31
LjLstill, in normal time, you can get one for like €15 or even less04:31
ryoumait has a plethysmograph, which i do not know what to do to read it.  it has blue light which is very bery bad for me at night but i didn't have energy to swap it for a red one.  it seems highish quality.  it has no alarms.  so if i do ont breathe while sleeping it iwll not warn me.04:32
LjLseems like something one should have04:32
ryoumamine was 40 usd or so04:32
LjLryouma, mine was close to that, too, but mainly because it has recording and you can upload the data to a computer via USB04:32
ryoumai was going to swap it fora red one with an alarm but did not have the health resources to look it up, decide, ask for the order to be made04:32
LjL20 or 25 USD you could get decent enough things, with no connectivity04:33
LjLryouma, well, forget about it now, they'll all out of stock, or stupidly expensive04:33
ryoumaLjL: that would be perfect, if it workd for linux.  i did not notice any of those on amazon.04:33
ryoumayeah i figured i had to get it quickly04:33
LjLryouma, it does work for linux although the program i tried, i failed, but someone in ##science was more stubborn and got it to work04:33
DocScrutinizer05or, you know, tack your finger to sensor of a SG Note9 ;-P04:34
ryoumatell me the model and make in case everything normalizes and i can get it for 30usd?04:34
LjLryouma, the brand is Contec (but they make ones without the USB too)04:34
LjLthe model is erm04:34
DocScrutinizer05though mine never shows <96% SpO204:34
LjL50D+... something like that04:34
LjLDocScrutinizer05, i've had 95 and 94% today. i'm not sure if the pulse oximeter is inaccurate, or i have something slightly wrong04:34
ryoumamine varies between like 91 and 97 spo204:34
LjLat other ties it's 98-99%04:34
ryoumain the morning04:34
ryoumai mean when i wake up which is like 1am04:35
ryouma1pm*04:35
LjL91% is bad for a healthy person04:35
ryoumahuh04:35
ryoumait varies over a short span of time i think04:35
kPai would expect that 91% would make you not a healthy person04:35
ryoumathe plethysmograph is fun to look at but idk what it means.  maybe a tcm practitioner would know.  :]04:36
LjLryouma, Contect CMD 50D+, but, there are also a few submodels of it, one of them has a "special" active USB cable, and if you lose that cable you're fucked. i don't know how to figure out which version you're getting04:36
ryoumawell the supposedly efficient market does not seem to be efficient in tp so idk why it would be in oximeters, but just in case.  thanks.04:37
LjLryouma, this forum http://www.cpaptalk.com/search.php?keywords=Contec talks about pulse oximeters a lot, mainly ones that can record a full night's sleep04:37
ryoumashould vary by time of day i think04:37
LjLryouma, the graph is mainly useful for making sure it's getting a good reading of your pulse04:37
LjLso, to determine whether the numbers are valid04:37
ryoumaaha.  wish i had had the cognitive capacity to find and check out that forum04:38
LjLif it starts looking flat, you're moved the finger, and the numbers may be off04:38
LjLryouma, it's a forum for people with sleep apnea who use CPAP machines basically04:38
ryoumait has interesting patterns though, which vary, but do ont correlate diwh anthing subjective or objective that i noticed04:38
LjLyeah they do vary04:39
ryoumai am tring to get a cpap.  i will get a recording oximeter to strap on in a month or two, supposedly.04:39
LjLsomtimes i get a smaller peak after the main peak, sometimes i don't04:39
LjLi think the double peak tends to happen when my pulse is higher04:39
LjLryouma, well, the people on this forum use a software (i forget the name now, remind to ask the ##science person) that is open source and *combines* the CPAP readings with the pulse oximeter readings04:40
ryoumai wish the device could at least record like 24h of spo204:40
LjLso you can figure out all that happened during the night04:40
ryoumayou mean like bipap activations or something?04:40
ryoumadoes cpap read?04:40
LjLryouma, there is a once-cheap model that could record 8 hours but without a computer connection. so you'd have to look at the numbers on the tiny screen, but... it was cheaper than the computer-connected ones04:40
LjLryouma, i am not sure what data the CPAP provides, since i've never had one and it wasn't what i was interested in, but apparently they do provide data04:41
LjLmight depend on the CPAP type too04:41
LjLsome of them have features like only starting to push air if they detect you aren't breathing04:41
LjLthings like that, but i don't know really04:41
LjLsome detect your breathing rate, and stop pushing air when you're exhaling, which is otherwise uncomfortable04:42
LjLi'll sleep now04:42
LjLbest of luck ryouma, i'll try to keep an eye on amazon.com if i spot the odd Prime oximeter04:43
LjLi did manage to buy an oxygen concentrator when they had all been out of stock for a while04:43
ryoumaLjL: those are called bipap04:43
LjLthen one appeared, and i grabbed them04:43
ryoumathanks04:43
LjLand then it was gone already04:43
LjLryouma, well yeah but "CPAP" is a term people on that forum use generically. then i know the actual techniques have different names, but you'll still find most info with cpap as a keyword generally04:44
ryoumaif your father has issues at night then 2 lpm by cannula could help, dunno if it will help with covid but it could get him in better shape ma7ybe04:44
ryoumaor 3lpm or even more in principle04:44
ryoumayeah that makes sense04:44
LjLryouma, he doesn't have issues at night for now, except bouts of coughing, and... well perhaps he could have sleep apnea but we don't really know (he has some small lesions in his brain that were brushed off as "small TIAs, normal for your age")04:45
LjLryouma, the oxygen concentrator is not medical grade, so it can only push 90% at 2 lpm, then it get up to 9 lpm but that's at just 30%04:45
LjLit's still the most powerful i've ever seen among the amazon ones though04:45
ryouma3lpm with that concentrator might not be bad though.04:45
LjLyeah i think he could be helpful if he gets some "mild" covid04:46
LjLbecause it'd still be "mild" but for a 75yo smoker04:46
LjLso, not really mild04:46
ryoumai meant for sleep but maybe for mild covid too04:46
LjLwell i don't think i can convince him to sleep with oxygen, i should first convince him to take a night's reading with the pulse ox04:47
LjLwhich is admittedly a bit of a chore to wear04:47
LjLthe others the CPAP people prefer are like bracelets with a prong for your finger04:47
LjLinstead these cheap ones are everything dangling from your finger04:47
LjLwhich is heavy, and sort of big04:47
LjLusually two AAA batteries in them04:47
LjLbut they are the cheapest04:47
LjLthe ones with a wrist band are decidedly more expensive04:48
WoofWolfCrin@search borneo trilogy04:48
WoofWolfCrinwrong chat woops04:48
LjLhappens04:48
ryoumai'm ok with the finger style just annoyed that i didn't switch the order to another i felt i could trust04:49
ryoumabut none of them taht i saw did any recording of spo2 at all04:49
ryoumaor itnerfaces04:49
LjLwell i'll show you what they are, but another day. no rush anyway since you won't be able to buy them for a while :\04:50
ryoumathanks.  indeed.04:53
ryoumai can't even get a beard trimmer from amazon.  and i have nothing to trim my beard with at all.  idk what they DO carry now.04:54
ryoumaoops i mean shave it off with.  i used to use the pop up thingy on my razor.04:55
LjL<CarlSagan_> [Ars Technica - Science] Trump claims “total authority” to override governors, force states to reopen https://arstechnica.com/?p=1668107 2020-04-14T02:25:5804:57
LjLSpec, ↑ sounds like a good way to break up the US worse than the EU04:57
LjLryouma, yeah i find the whole non-essential items thing very perplexing. they carry a LOT of items i don't consider essential, and very few of the ones i do04:58
ryoumai was seriously concerned about a possible civil war or other issue in the us before the pandemic.  now it sounds like actors are ... practically trying to start one?05:01
ryoumasomebody said election map looke4d like a civil war map.  which, if ttrue and not a coincidence, is disturbing.05:03
ryoumamaybe the supreme court will intervene05:03
train1constitution really isn't convenient anymore  https://youtu.be/cNO18dRip-U      supreme court ultra white right wing05:07
train1federalist society anti abortion05:08
ryoumaThis video is unavailable.05:08
ryoumai don't watch stuff much.  text works better for me.05:08
ryoumawhen i can read taht is05:08
train1on contact yt  chris hedges  if your interested05:09
train1might get  labeled  'fake'  since it's RT  lol 05:10
ryoumayou are speaking in tongues to me.  idk such things or figures.  unless rt is that russian news thingie.05:11
train1since us 'news'  has normalized  passivity  RT has a few guests worth listening to 05:12
train1some are crazies, some are very lucid05:13
ryoumai always understood the eu to be embryonic and not at all like the us, as in, if you live in delaware, you could go to seattle and still have a similar culture and lifestyle and such.  (not to mention language.)05:18
ryoumabut the virus is ... weakening the eu?05:18
kPathe virus is weakening everything05:22
Flaviker!v07:07
rajrajrajbtw lockdown extended in india till may 3rd 08:08
RahiAkherajot[m]Prime Minister of India speaks08:52
Urchinhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qiZO2J5oHuQ09:39
jacklswquiet today10:03
mefistofelesjacklsw: indeed10:17
katsuragiHello10:27
BorkrWhat happened?10:40
jacklswprobably those connecting from matrix10:42
\n3p\LOL mass killed ~ 400 matrix "users"10:48
\n3p\under 200 users in the room now10:50
_io_holy shit.10:52
okzit's beginning :-)10:56
irc_seikenIt's spreading, rather11:01
mefistofelesBorkr: yes, matrix failing11:01
mefistofelesit happens from time to time11:01
mefistofelesand I mean that literally, the matrix servers11:01
mefistofeles:P11:01
yuriwhoheh 11:04
yuriwhothe matrix people see a little cultish anyway11:05
yuriwhoseem11:05
yuriwhobut we are like luddites to them I guess11:06
\n3p\Mexico + 35 deaths in past 24h total deaths reported 332. 11:07
\n3p\wb matrix bots11:15
_io_Jesus.11:17
_io_why didn't this happen in the other room11:17
_io_like at all.11:18
ubLIXwhich other room?11:18
q[m]2Uh, am I about to get kicked?11:18
SycophantFetish[ChanServ: is there a reason I'm being continually pinged for a DM?11:19
q[m]2Pretty sure it's a bot that sends DMs for updates about the freenode bridge11:19
ubLIXSycophantFetish[: it's because the matrix bridge just killed and rejoined all the matrix users - when you join this channel chanserv PM's you an addition to the topic11:20
SycophantFetish[Roger that!  Carry on11:20
_io_ubLIX: ##coronavirus 11:20
ubLIX_io_: ##coronavirus doesn't have a matrix bridge/doesn't allow matrix users, as far as i know11:21
_io_I find it really interesting that there are 300 users here but none of them are in the other channel about the same topic11:21
_io_channels don't need to specifically allow matrix users11:21
_io_are they all banned there?11:22
ubLIX_io_: you do need permission to use the matrix bridge, generally on a per channel basis11:22
q[m]2Just tried, and on the Matrix side, #freenode_##coronavirus:matrix.org is invite-only11:23
_io_I have matrix user in my room I never did anything special to let him in.11:23
_io_nobody did.11:24
ubLIXheh. the matrix version of this channel has >1000 users11:24
ubLIXwonder why they're not all here11:24
ubLIXdormant accounts, i guess11:24
Mr_Pinkyeesh. same underreporting in care facilities going on in the UK just like US https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/11391723/coronavirus-hundreds-more-care-homes/11:25
_io_I think Canada has that problem too.11:26
ubLIXBBC version if you don't much like The Sun: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-5227582311:26
ubLIX%title11:26
BrainstormubLIX: From www.bbc.co.uk: Coronavirus: Older people being 'airbrushed' out of virus figures - BBC News11:26
mefistofelesUK underreporting is big, indeed11:27
mefistofelesbut not only for old people11:27
SycophantFetish[That doesn't fit the narative though it's a big, huge, massive, terrible pandemic.11:27
mefistofelesSycophantFetish[: what doesn't?11:28
SycophantFetish[Underreporting 11:28
_io_I think around 15% of people are infected.11:28
mefistofelesSycophantFetish[: I don't follow. Underreported in terms of confirmed cases is happening everywhere and it'sknown fact11:29
_io_I heard a doctor CNN say that his state tests women when they come in to give birth. and 15% are infected.11:29
SycophantFetish[Yet, most of the news media I see says we are all going to die.11:29
Mr_PinkSome places like Florida are blatantly hiding it.11:29
mefistofelesSycophantFetish[: well, stop watching crappy media11:29
SycophantFetish[Touche'11:29
mefistofeleswhy would people think media was going to change now with this virus? ;)11:30
Mr_PinkUsing political influences to get the Miami Herald's lawyers to drop the FOIA case.11:30
ubLIXSycophantFetish[: maybe stop reading The Sun :p11:30
SycophantFetish[lol11:30
mefistofelesI'd try to avoid any UK media sources, tbh, those are the worst11:30
Mr_PinkI never post The Sun because its a rag but it was direct quoting the head of that organization and it's 2:30am so piss off! ;P11:30
Mr_PinkChina just shut its border with Russia because they're getting a bunch of new cases from tem too.11:31
SycophantFetish[Maybe, have another pint then?  I mean, it's only 2:30 :)  Sun isn't up yet.  11:31
SycophantFetish[I digress :)11:32
Mr_PinkI've had 0 pints. I'm working and waiting for the baseball to start.11:32
mefistofelesMr_Pink: baseball?11:32
Mr_PinkCPBL, played in Taiwan, had their season opener 2 days ago. 11 inning pitcher's duel!11:32
mefistofelesMr_Pink: Yes, most reintroductions of new cases in China re from USA and Europe11:32
mefistofeles*are11:33
Mr_PinkAt 3:35am PT in about an hour the Brothers take on the Guardians and it's going to be broadcast online in English.11:33
Mr_PinkThey're playing in fan-less stadiums.11:33
mefistofelesok11:33
Mr_PinkTheir basketball is going as well. There's a game on right now actually but not in English. https://www.pscp.tv/w/1rmGPAmgDEDJN11:34
SycophantFetish[yawn it's been fun but take the fans out of the stadium and we might as well watch virtual ball.  Just poked in to see what's all about here and now off to bed with me.  Have fun watching ball.  Avoid Rona.11:34
Mr_PinkVirtual ball is happening as well. MLB Player's League, and the San Diego Padres broadcast virtual games every Friday at 5:30 with the actual team announcers calling the game as if it were real.11:35
Mr_PinkThere's tennis going on right now, but a bunch of Belarus and Russian nobodies. That's one of the easiest games to social distance haha11:36
ubLIXmefistofeles: the financial times and the economist are hardly the worst 'news' outlets ever devised; both headquartered in London11:36
mefistofeleshow to make baseball more boring? Just remove the fans11:36
mefistofeles:P11:36
Mr_PinkThe Rakuten Monkeys, part of the CPBL are adding robotic fans lmao11:36
Mr_Pinkhttps://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/rakuten-monkeys-will-have-robot-mannequins-dressed-as-fans-when-2020-season-begins/11:36
Mr_Pinkhaha https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EU-UjJvUEAAGf9_?format=jpg&name=large11:36
steerionintendo wii style animated ones would be more fun11:37
Mr_PinkI'd be down for that. Even with the games with no fans they still have 4 girls dancing on the dugout and drum-heavy music blasting throughout the stadium while the game is going on haha11:37
steeriothat must have a wierd potemkin village vibe to it11:39
steerio*weird11:39
ubLIXmefistofeles: there is also Prospect (UK headquartered), slightly centre-left, but given to realism: https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/11:42
mefistofelesubLIX: the fact that you have to try that hard says I lot, but I get it, and I know there are some decent ones11:44
mefistofeleswhich reminds me...11:44
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: John Conway, inventor of the Game of Life, has died of COVID-19 (10019 votes) | https://redd.it/g0v3v511:44
mefistofelesRemember I posted some PNAS article yesterday? And I was suspecting it was a bit weird, to say the least. Apparently some people agree on this https://twitter.com/arambaut/status/124839433173756723411:45
ubLIXmefistofeles: granted, none of the daily papers (save for the FT) and none of the daily TV news shows are.. uncomplicated in their slant11:45
\n3p\John Conway irony death11:46
\n3p\49% want Italexit from EU https://www.ilgiornale.it/news/politica/sondaggio-tecn-italiano-su-due-vorrebbe-litalia-fuori-dallue-1853377.html 11:49
mefistofelesreally crappy time for italians to be that "proud"11:55
sternenmusik[m]<\n3p\ "49% want Italexit from EU https:"> Ciao. 12:03
blkshpMaybe after we could join together Britain and Italy and make EU212:05
\n3p\lol that is a possibility. Italy needs a new Lira. € is killing them12:07
\n3p\Trade after EU will continue because everybody needs it. UK-Gr depend each other 12:08
sternenmusik[m]<blkshp "Maybe after we could join togeth"> For sure not for you to decide. 12:09
blkshpNo no, under this scenario, they have to have the pound and of course speak English at all times12:09
sternenmusik[m]<\n3p\ "lol that is a possibility. Italy"> Evidence that the Euro is bad for anyone in the union? 12:09
blkshpOne of the reasons we didn't take it in the first place.12:09
\n3p\Euro push salaries down in south Europe 12:10
sternenmusik[m]Really? 12:11
sternenmusik[m]The US pushes salaries down. 12:11
dTalis this covid-19 related?12:12
\n3p\One currency fits all is not good for Europe because countries lose they ability to adjust to drastic changes.12:12
sternenmusik[m]The baddest currency is the Dollar. 12:13
dTal\n3p\: you can apply the same argument to the dollar with interesting results12:13
\n3p\Dollar is not the national currency of most countries in the world12:14
dTalIt covers a similar population with similar economic diversity12:14
\n3p\Dollar is the world's reserve currency. Not the currency for intranational trade, and salaries. You could devaluate your national currency against dollar and avoid a bigger economic crisis and massive unemployment 12:16
dTalThere's nothing unique about the dollar12:17
\n3p\With € Italy will never reach full employment 12:17
\n3p\All that was told 20 years ago. That is why UK never accepted € as their currency. EU was dead since the beginning 12:19
dTalI don't see why the inability of Italy to print euros is not exactly analogous to, say, Texas's inability to print dollars12:21
\n3p\Germans will never accept to work harder to rescue the rest of Europe12:21
dTalwhy not?12:22
\n3p\Because they are not stupid commies12:22
dTal"work harder" doesn't mean sweating in the sun, ploughing the fields anymore12:22
dTal...aaand there it is12:22
dTalthank you for playing12:22
adventurerhttps://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-symptoms-foot-lesions-could-be-early-sign-of-infection/news-story/15e269fd37b5b9d30c30852dc7de978012:23
sternenmusik[m]Italy would have been insolvent long ago without the loans from the European Central Bank (ECB)12:24
sternenmusik[m]12:24
generado smelly feet be foot lesions?12:25
\n3p\Italy will never recover. They are not competitive enough. Every crisis is worst. There is no path to recovery12:25
sternenmusik[m]How many billion do the US owe China? 🤷🏻‍♂️😁12:26
\n3p\More than 1000 un Treasury bonds12:26
\n3p\This not a nationalist rant. I just talking about basic math12:27
sternenmusik[m]Same here,... 👌12:28
mefistofeles\n3p\: I agree, Germans won't agree to pay more taxes or work harder to help other europeans countries12:29
mefistofelesand I have already heard that from many germans12:29
\n3p\Trade between US-Mexico works because we have different currencies. If Mexico were forced to use dollar as national currency Mexicans will be broken and can't afford to eat  12:30
mefistofelesnow, that doesn'tmean that the EU and Merkel and others find a way to do it implicitely without people noticing it 12:30
mefistofelesthat is, massively noticing it, rather12:30
\n3p\Yes, that is what they were doing for many years but they just delay the final outcome. EU is inviable. 12:32
\n3p\Europe needs a new deal12:32
\n3p\One currency without fiscal centralization like USA will never work.12:34
\n3p\Europe must evolve to be a Federal Union or split 12:34
\n3p\ COVID-19 shows that EU is a myth12:35
\n3p\Even USA is suffering political unrest and conflicts between states because of COVID-1912:37
mefistofelesit's not that simple, it never is12:39
\n3p\It's very complex. 12:39
sternenmusik[m]Much easier to get over this pandemic first. 12:40
\n3p\I hope so. 12:41
\n3p\COVID is crashing the economy of many countries12:42
\n3p\In Spain they expect -15% GDP this year as worst scenery12:43
adventurerau wants to send kids back to school to 'free up the economy' which i interpret as women and children are going to be put forward to get herd immunity12:43
adventureri hope the vaccine comes soon12:44
\n3p\We will have a very hard months in the near future12:44
mefistofelesthe outcome may be good/better, specially when the next pandemics arrives12:47
mefistofeleseconomies will then be more closed and local, and the ffects won'tbe as bad, for economy and for lives12:47
mefistofelesif cards are played correctly12:47
\n3p\Yes, in the long run we'll be better prepared 12:47
mefistofelesif that means sacrificing many large tech or entertainment or online delivery companies (for the most part), I'd say, no worries 12:48
\n3p\How US-China settle their differences will change the world. There is too much uncertainties right now. Could be the end of globalization  12:49
mefistofeles\n3p\: a slowdown, at worst, imho12:50
\n3p\I think it depends on industries. Some will suffer but other could see a reborn12:51
\n3p\Health and pharma will be move from China to other nations12:54
mefistofelespossibly12:55
mefistofelesI mean, they won't leave China in an absolute manner, of course12:56
mefistofelesand China will probably be the biggest manufacturer of many things, as usual, just because they are also the biggest market in many things12:56
adventurerI always felt a bit sad when some entrepreneurs  moved their manufacturing to  China...like let us make stuff here but China is pretty  good at manufacturing I  can see12:56
mefistofelesbut yeah, things would probably become less China-dependent12:56
mefistofelesspecially the "Important" things12:57
\n3p\It's not easy to move out of China. There are a lot of investments there. But new investments probably will be national localized in each country.12:57
sternenmusik[m]The race to get to the top again is WW3. 12:58
mefistofelesthey are still in the top, not sure what you mean12:58
\n3p\Interesting times. Let's hope for the best. 13:00
adventurerI know some men who used to have many companies in AU hiring many people really helping them to afford to live then they changed their business to manufaturing in China well i guess hopefully they were helping some people who needed it there13:03
adventurerbut there is something cool in making stuff yourself 13:04
adventureror knowing how  to13:04
adventurerand when you stop doing it you lose the skills a bit13:04
\n3p\adventurer, yes! We become very dependent on China slaves. That is not good. 13:05
adventurerI hope they are not slaves13:05
adventurerbut i also think of all the men who learnt to make cars in AU then no more jobs for them13:06
adventurerwhen they closed the factories13:06
adventurerwhat do  those men in AU do now?13:06
adventureri  don't know13:06
adventurermaybe on centerlink13:06
\n3p\They are not free to chose. Forced labor is a thing in China.13:06
adventureroh13:06
adventurerthat's not good13:07
ubLIXbeyond a prison context, \n3p\?13:08
\n3p\ubLIX, probably. It's a brutal dictatorship 13:09
ubLIXdoes the aetiology of the brutality matter more than the brutality itself?13:11
\n3p\ubLIX, https://thediplomat.com/2018/03/chinas-forced-labor-problem/13:11
\n3p\ubLIX, You could play with words but people suffer the same. 13:13
ubLIXnice inversion of point, \n3p\ 13:14
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Florida Surgeon General Removed from Governor DeSantis' Coronavirus Briefing After Saying Social Distancing Necessary Until There's A Vaccine (10162 votes) | https://redd.it/g0yg4t13:14
ubLIXfrom that linke: "Eventually, the national government launched an investigation into the kilns of Shanxi, resulting in inspections of almost 5,000 kilns and rescues of hundreds of enslaved workers, who spoke about abductions, captivity, beatings, and inhumane conditions."13:15
ubLIXi suppose the absolute scale of systemically manifest problems scales with population size; the article doesn't approach the question of international comparison of prevalence for these features common to many (dare i say, most?) polities13:24
ubLIXgood article, nonetheless13:24
sternenmusik[m]China is far ahead, since they started this virus thing. 13:28
sternenmusik[m]Smart they are. 13:28
\n3p\sternenmusik[m], not sure of that because this will cost Chila a lot of billions and bad press around the world for many years.13:29
\n3p\COVID-19 shows the world that China is not a friend. They did a lot to damage the world13:31
mefistofelesthat'sa bit hypocrite13:32
MinceRCOVID-19 was needed for that?13:32
\n3p\No. 13:32
mefistofelesspecially considering how Europe and USA also failed in containing this thing and were the ones spreading it faster to larger portions of the globe13:32
\n3p\But China let millions fly from Wuhan to the resto of the world. They buy a lot of PPE from many counties knowing that the virus was a serous threat13:33
mefistofelesyes, because it wasn't an easy thing to contain, just as USA and Europe also let millions fly from their land13:34
mefistofeles\n3p\: also, not millions, in any case13:34
mefistofelesthousands, maybe13:34
\n3p\4m fly from Wuhan. They went there for Chinese new year. https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/feb/9/millions-left-wuhan-china-coronavirus-quarantine/13:35
mefistofelessure, yet China got through it faster than others13:36
mefistofelesso, still, bit hypocrite13:36
\n3p\China is not the only responsible of the spread 13:37
MinceRwhat data is this statement on how quickly Red China got through it based on anyway?13:37
mefistofelessure, and if anything most cases today are due to USA and Europe outbreaks13:37
mefistofelesas the nextstrain people have shown13:37
mefistofelesMinceR: the official data verified by many organizations, I prefer to rely on that than to imaginary data in an hypothetical situation where everything is possible13:38
sternenmusik[m]<mefistofeles "sure, yet China got through it f"> China needs customers thats true, but they are ahead now and we are going to see the war to get to the top 🤷🏻‍♂️13:38
MinceR"official data" that comes from a totalitarian dictatorship with a vested interest in looking good in front of foreigners so they can keep and spread their dictatorship?13:39
mefistofelesMinceR: as if others do better, ie. Japan13:39
MinceRothers don't deny their own subjects nearly as much information either13:40
mefistofelesanyways, I still prefer to rely on real data and account for errors/manipulations in that data, than totally denying it with imaginary reasons13:40
MinceR"real" data that was written by government officials for the purpose of making themselves look better, yes13:40
mefistofelesand on facts, as China opening things again and such13:40
mefistofelesnd how they are now getting more cases from US/Europe than CHina itself13:41
mefistofelesin their own land13:41
AimHereTotalitarian dictatorships have less of a vested interest to lie than democratic states, where the politicians actually depend on public opinion for their jobs.13:41
\n3p\AimHere,  but they lie anyway13:42
MinceRspreading their model to other countries depends on public opinion13:42
AimHereSure13:42
mefistofelesOf course I think CHina and the WHO have made many mistakes in all of this, but that doesn'tmean other's (specially US/europe cricits) have done any better13:42
MinceRtrade also depends on public opinion13:42
mefistofelesprobably even worse13:42
MinceRseems to me the WHO is doing everything they can to make red china happy13:42
MinceRand they have better tools for hiding what's happening within their borders13:43
mefistofelesMinceR: calling it names like "red china" idoesn't really add to the conversation13:43
MinceRpeople who reported on the plague early mysteriously disappeared, afaik13:43
MinceRmefistofeles: do you know why the usian government stopped calling them that?13:43
mefistofelesMinceR: we can leave that for another channel and ocassion13:44
MinceRbut call them "People's Republic of China" if you believe that lifts the jackboots off their slaves' faces a bit all you want :>13:44
mefistofelesnobody is saying that, still, not relevant for the discussion13:45
mefistofelesso, I suggest we stay on topic13:45
MinceRall i'm saying is one might not want to blindly believe these people when they publish alleged "data" that makes them look good13:46
mefistofelesMinceR: nobody is blindly believen here13:49
aradeshjust because peolpe are untrustworthy doesn't mean all data they release is false13:49
mefistofelesbelieving*13:49
aradeshchina's data matches all the internal consistency checks of valid data13:49
aradeshinitial spread rate matches other countries. time for lockdown to kick in matches other countries, etc13:49
aradeshassuming their cases were mostly confined to wuhan, the data is very plausible13:50
mefistofelesalso, most countries are using China data and science for their own measures13:50
MinceRthis "China science" sounds interesting13:50
MinceRwhat is it based on?13:51
mefistofelesnow, fortunately we have other countries data for validation, and it seems correct13:51
MinceRhave they reinvented science from the ground up?13:51
mefistofelesno, and that's a clearly misinterpretation of what I just said13:51
aradeshso without further info, i see no reason to disbelieve the china data13:51
aradeshchina could have lots of undetected cases in rural parts of china but13:52
aradeshfor the regions they tested and such, i don't see any evidence to suggest it's false13:52
\n3p\ FRANCE | Emmanuel Macron Extends French Coronavirus Lockdown Until May 1113:53
mefistofelesyeah, France is really underreported, kinda expected13:55
mefistofeleseven though they are slowing it down already13:55
mefistofelesI'm very curious about what Germany will say, so far the April 19th hods, afaik13:55
mefistofeles*holds13:56
aradeshwhat's meant to be happening on april the 19th?13:56
mefistofelesuniversity/school opening, and probably many others13:56
aradeshwill watch countries who relax their measures with attention13:57
aradeshi don't know if japan did any relaxing, but they were doing  well containing the virus for a while, but it seems to be exploding again13:57
mefistofelesaradesh: they were not testing13:57
mefistofelesso it was spreading but they just were not tracking it13:58
mefistofelesAustria and Denmark are already opening13:58
mefistofelesand in Germany, even though there'sstill these distancing measures, many are pretty much just acting normally13:58
mefistofelesthey will probably be opening many regions/states13:59
mefistofelesMadrid is also opening some essential jobs that were locked13:59
P-S--Y0114:04
P-S--Y214:05
P-S--Yoops14:06
Jigsy>UK coronavirus rules relaxed for people with autism and learning disabilities14:20
Jigsy>People with learning disabilities or autism can leave the house for exercise more than once a day and can travel outside of their local area under current lockdown measures, the government has said.14:20
JigsyIn other news, UK autism cases spiked 1000%.14:20
MinceRlol14:20
Jigsyhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/14/uk-coronavirus-rules-autism-learning-disabilities-lockdown14:20
Jigsy%title14:20
BrainstormJigsy: From www.theguardian.com: UK coronavirus rules relaxed for people with autism and learning disabilities | World news | The Guardian14:20
MinceRfrom what i can see around my home, hungarians with learning disabilities already act as if they had this exception14:20
MinceRand there are a lot of them14:21
ecovsame here but with Mexicans14:31
mefistofelesecov: what's that?14:34
sternenmusik[m]Your comments read like social distancing not physical distancing. 14:37
Hullo1Hello14:38
Hullo1sternenmusik[m], Matrix user?14:38
mefistofelesHullo1: hey14:38
Hullo1mefistofeles, hello14:38
Hullo1Lockdown extended in India for two weeks more14:39
mefistofelesHullo1: ok, yes, it's still spreading fast there14:40
pwr22They are14:43
sternenmusik[m]<Hullo1 "sternenmusik, Matrix user?"> Yes. 14:56
\n3p\#ww4 Chinese aircraft carrier sails past Taiwan as US Navy struggles with coronavirus 15:03
IndoAnon>ww415:05
\n3p\yes. ww3 was the world war against terror. A world coalition against Afghanistan-Taliban Bin-Laden15:06
MinceR:>15:07
\n3p\WHO Official Says She Suspected Human-To-Human COVID-19 Transmission ‘Right From The Start’ — But The WHO Echoed Misleading Chinese Claims To The Contrary For Weeks  https://is.gd/YX4p3t15:12
AlbrightThe UN loses more of whatever legitimacy it pretends to have left every day that passes with Teddy-bear still in his position.15:13
\n3p\But Dr. Maria Van Kerkhove FAILS to alert her own contry!!!15:15
MinceRah, it's those Totally Trustworthy chinese again...15:21
l0ndonersup peeps o/15:52
LjLwow, we had 650 people here yesterday or so, 576 now, i did predict it had "peaked" and would start going down now, hadn't i Spec? :P16:00
LjLtoo bad i didn't keep a graph of user count16:00
LjLlogs don't have that16:00
ubLIXLjL: they turned the bridge off and on again16:00
LjLoh16:00
LjLthat bridge is starting to ugh me16:00
\n3p\lol yes this channel life is dependent on the fear of the people to COVID-1916:01
\n3p\fear have peaked16:02
LjLubLIX, i hope https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues/1026 will get solved in a decent way16:02
LjL\n3p\, well the good thing about that is it'll likely be the first channel i'll be happy with losing16:03
\n3p\that is a good news for the world 16:04
\n3p\You could open another for CoVid-SARS-3 202116:04
ubLIXLjL: they should just not propagate edits across the bridge; it would encourage people using bridged channels not to use the edit feature16:08
LjLubLIX, i think the ideal thing to do would be to make the edit feature configurable by the room admin. i am not really a fan of people editing messages16:08
LjLwe can see headaches with that on Reddit which lacks edit summaries and a history16:09
LjLit results in people sneakily changing what they said after they get a reply16:09
LjLand in mods asking people to post an edit summary inline, which looks atrocious16:09
LjLit already had a "delete message" feature. that seemed like more than enough to me16:09
ubLIXroom admin approach could be good16:11
LjLubLIX, for that matter i'm not a fan of the fact their protocol *mandates* clients to respect deletion of messages. when you send a message, and it reaches my computer, i'm sorry but it's mine to keep or lose now. not up to you, or my client on your behalf.16:12
ubLIXheh. some funny decisions, for sure. i just noticed on my recent matrix revisit, that the search function on riot is done server side?!16:13
LjLubLIX, yes, because the logs are also not kept locally16:14
ubLIXthat's just a waste of bandwidth IMO16:14
LjLubLIX, well there are other clients16:14
LjLubLIX, but there's certainly some thought to be spent on the fact they log *everything forever*. on the other hand, freenode can only "promise" they don't.16:14
bin_bashhm see yes this just confirms everything ive been saying16:15
ubLIXmhm will be revisiting the weechat plugin as soon as i get the mojo16:16
dTalLjL: why shouldn't the protocol mandate it? the alternative is to have no deletion in the protocol at all16:17
LjLubLIX, the main problem with other clients, when i tried some, was that e2e support was scant in most. basically you're tied to Riot if you want e2e, which is also the only way to have them *not* log everything server-side (well technically they still do)16:17
LjLdTal, the alternative is that my client could easily have an option when the "deleted" message gets, say, stricken out.16:17
LjLIRC doesn't have a deletion option and i don't really miss it16:17
LjLit should be up to me as the person who's got the text on his computer.16:18
dTalIf I accidentally send you an embarassing picture, and I ask you nicely to delete it, *protocol* mandates that you do so16:18
ubLIXLjL: haven't yet checked it, and the weechat-plugin lists e2ee as still experimental, but apparently they are being modest and e2ee is operational now on weechat16:18
dTalyou are of course free to tell me to get stuffed, but that would be rude16:18
LjLdTal, well i disagree with that view. it's basically DRM.16:18
LjLand i disagree very deeply with DRM.16:18
dTal...I think comparing it to DRM is ridiculous.16:18
dTalIt's the opposite of DRM. It's asking nicely16:19
dTalThe fact that it's *possible* for you to be a dick about it, doesn't mean we should bake that into law16:19
bin_bashit's not even comparable to drm16:20
ubLIXdTal: it's only asking nicely in the sense that you could write your own client that disregards that specification in the protocol16:20
dTalBut, this is a philosophical issue that pervades the tech world, the libertarian notion that might makes right16:20
dTalubLIX: exactly?16:21
ubLIXif matrix ever becomes mainstream, a tiny minority of its users will be able to write their own client16:22
bin_bashhonestyl everything that isnt irc should be nuked from orbit16:23
bin_bashraise the bar! riase the bar!16:23
dTalSnapchat. Discuss16:23
ubLIXhaha16:23
bin_bashnuke snapchat16:23
bin_bashfrom orbit16:23
\n3p\https://www.wsj.com/articles/coronavirus-afflicted-global-economy-is-almost-certainly-in-recession-11586867402?mod=hp_lead_pos216:30
ubLIXidk dTal. in principle, you can't minute a meeting if anyone present is able to unilaterally edit their contributions and you don't have local logs. the matrix reference client doesn't yet offer a fix for this concern16:31
jacklswsnapchat is still bearable than tik tok16:39
jacklswtik-tok got a lot of retarded posters16:39
ubLIXsnapchat is wonderfully easy to bear - i've never used it and am not aware of being acquainted with anyone who does16:40
l0ndonerxchat or GTFO :)16:41
\n3p\irssi or dead. terminar irc is the real thing!16:43
lf94weechat > everything16:45
lf94It goes beyond IRC16:45
lf94It's essentially just a chat shell16:45
lf94Can be used for any protocol16:46
\n3p\lol irc client flame wars 202016:46
python476netcat or die 16:51
weyland|yutanisocat + tls + tcpdump17:04
pynaweechat would be nice if it knew how to wrap links17:24
pynasince it doesn't want to, irssi for life17:25
lf94weechat does17:26
lf94but also my terminal does too17:26
lf94in weechat it's ctrl+middle click17:26
lf94terminal it's shift+click17:26
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Boris Johnson praises immigrant nurses who saved his life (10005 votes) | https://redd.it/g0tql217:45
matrix_freenode[!cases India17:46
CovBotSomething went wrong fetching the latest data so stats may be outdated.17:47
CovBotIn India there have been a total of 10,541 cases as of 2020-04-14 13:18:00 UTC. Of these 8,978 (85.2%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 1,205 (11.4%) have definitely recovered and 358 (3.4%) have died.17:47
matrix_freenode[%data India17:47
Brainstormmatrix_freenode[: In all areas, India, there are 10678 cases (0.0% of the population) and 358 deaths (3.4% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 206212 tests were performed (5.2% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India for time series data.17:47
pwr22Breathing through a kitchen roll filter is quite difficult17:59
pwr22I'm unsure if that's a good or a bad thing18:00
balaa[m]Matrix for the win18:08
bin_bashpyna: alt-l for wrapping links18:11
bin_bashfuck matrix lol18:11
pynatbf i havent tried it in probably 5+ years maybe its improved18:12
bin_bashpyna: alt-l for raw has always been a thing afaik, or at least for more than 5 years18:12
\n3p\After OPEC agreement   WTI Oil $21.19 -5.44%18:13
LjLi'm late for the italy press conference18:13
LjLi'll rewind for the numbers18:13
LjLnot sure i feel like transcribing it all18:13
bin_bashdont blame you18:13
LjLhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDMjt5K-USQ18:13
LjL(Borrelli) Good evening, thanks to our LIS interpreter, and Prof. Massimo Antonelli, director of emergency at Policlinico Gemelli. And also Prof. Guidi, we've been friends for a long time and it's important to talk about disability during the time of coronavirus.18:15
LjLToday's bulletin: 104291 currently positive, +67518:15
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Florida man buys $20,000 bottle of bourbon for $40,000 to help struggling restaurant stay afloat (10185 votes) | https://redd.it/g13xg718:15
LjLPressure on hospitals keeps going down: 3186 are in ICU, -74, and 28011 hospitalized, -1218:16
LjLMost patients are self-isolating at home, that's 73094 (70%).18:16
LjL+602 deaths today.18:16
LjL+1695 recovered.18:16
generagood evening ))18:16
LjLWe have 10598 today.18:16
LjL[That's much less than in the past days!]18:16
LjLErr, 10598 volunteers.18:17
LjL[I'm really bad with transcribing numbers for some reason, they go away from my memory in like 5 seconds]18:17
LjLWe now have 122.5 million euro in donations. These will be used for purchasing PPEs and ventilators, and we spent 26 million so far.18:18
LjLAbout the Alan Curdi ship, and migrants in general and their quarantine: I nominated the prefect of Bari to handle this, and he is working to find solutions both for quarantines on ships and finding other places on land.18:18
LjLNews that came out on the press on using a specific ship are not accurate as it's still under discussion and not decided.18:19
\n3p\MEXICO | This is crazy >>> Mexican Cartel Gunmen Distribute Food Baskets amid Coronavirus, Easter https://is.gd/4rKWGE18:21
LjL(Antonelli) Good evening. ICU numbers have definitely improved, and thanks to cooperation with Lombardy, we could do a comparison I'm going to describe: in Lombardy has here been about 65% survival on ICU patients; in Latium, the numbers are lower, and in a similar timeframe we've had just 424 patients, but survival is still exatly 65%.18:21
LjLWhat does that mean? First, the impact from the Lombard emergency on ICU was strong, and containment measures have allowed mitigation to be more effective in other regions, reducing the ICU number. But it also tells us that the severity is similar, so much that the severity index and the mortality are comparable in two regions with completely different impact.18:22
LjLWe can conclude that containment measures work and work well to reduce an impact in individual regions, and resources are enough to face things; secondly, effectiveness of ICU treatment, which are mainly supportive, is relatively high, if we consider how serious these patients are.18:22
LjL(Borrelli) Any questions?18:23
LjLQ: [Elderly/disabled person is speaking] The Civil Protection is Italy's pulsating heart. As a former neurologist at Gemelli, I'd call you the brain cortex of Italy. You are value. You give without asking, and that's what our future has to be. It's called democracy. Sorry for my breath but age and these masks make it hard. I wanted to ask Brusaferro why during the past years the epidemiology service has been cancelled, which could have intervened early and 18:27
LjLon the whole national territory. Some of the people who were in these press conferences have had strong responsibilities in causing this, we'll have to talk about it later. I think politicians, science, and mass media especially, have forgotten to call things with their name. It's no use talking about "vulnerable" people: there are 7 million people with disabilities, an enormous constellation with great potential, they are not liability but a resource. 18:27
LjLSome have learning problems, some neurological, some have autism, some find it hard to move... so there are many solutions to find: they can no longer be in rehabilitation centers, and home assistance is difficult, and they also cannot take part in school and work because they need specialized assistance that's no longer present.18:27
LjL[I'm kind of losing track of what he's saying now]18:27
LjLBut really, let's call things with their names, as an important part of our society is expecting concrete answers.18:28
IndoAnon>7 million people with disabilities < Mental and physical disabilities? 18:29
pwr22Hmm, the NHS data seems to be gone18:30
pwr22I get a 403 now18:30
pwr22https://www.arcgis.com/sharing/rest/content/items/b684319181f94875a6879bbc833ca3a6/data.18:30
LjLA: (Borrelli) Thank you... We haven't talked in a while, but you know disability is something we've always kept in mind in the Civil Protection, they are the first people we need to be concerned with during emergency. You know in our department we've had a project for at least 13 years, we have disabled people who work with us who allowed to create a path to follow on disability. Our volunteer organizations are focused on disabled people. As an emergency 18:30
LjLsystem, I can assure you that I've taken personal care of some specific cases, like the other night when I've called a mayor about a specific structure hosting disabled people that was having difficulties. I can assure you we'll always be there for disabled people. On the rest of what you said, Prof. Brusaferro will be able to answer tomorrow in the press conference he'll hold tomorrow at ISS.18:30
pwr22 * https://www.arcgis.com/sharing/rest/content/items/b684319181f94875a6879bbc833ca3a6/data18:30
LjLIndoAnon, yes, cecrtainly both considered18:30
LjLQ: ICUs are going down in a clear way. Could it also be a signal of lesser virulence of this virus? Hospitalized people are also going down. And Dr Borrelli, today you met the "task force" of economists with the scientific committee... have you talked about re-opening some shops, relaxing the lockdowns in a controlled way...?18:31
LjLA: From an intensivologist point of view, I'd say severity of patients has remained the same. It's hard to say if there's a reduction in virulence, but I don't think so. I think the main role has been played by containment measures.18:32
LjL(Borrelli) The task force is working hard, but I cannot say anything on what we discussed today. It would not be appropriate: the task force will do its job and then only its president can decide when to communicate the results to the PM and the government.18:32
pwr22Looks like public health england has pulled their data!18:33
LjLQ: The President of the EU Commission said elderly people will have to stay at home until the rest of the year, which made many people sad. Do you agree with the assessment?18:33
LjLA: When we talk about the elderly we are in fact talking about the most vulnerable part of the population, and they are the people who pay the highest toll in our ICUs, so we definitely need to protect them further... now, making it compulsory for them to stay at home until the end of the year, who can say right now? We need to see how the situation evolves.18:34
LjLpwr22, :\18:34
LjLQ: What stage are we at with home assistance? Exports had told us that after hospital pressure went down, it would be important to assist patients at home, especially in sight of "phase 2" when work will resume. How will this be handled, including for working people with disabilities?18:35
LjLA: We have a plan on reinforcing "territorial medicine". We're in a phase where synergy that must exist between hospitals and the territory is the key for protecting this portion of the population in the future.18:35
LjLQ: Would you recommend for or against booking summer holidays? (Borrelli) It's a legitimate question! Q: And just in case, maybe holiday activities restricted in the region of residence?18:36
pwr22LjL: they've convered it all into a dashboard which I guess I'll have to crawl https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/18:36
LjLA: (Antonelli) In all honesty I think no one knows. Any answer with any real detail would not be reliable.18:36
LjLpwr22, json before?18:37
pwr22CSVs18:37
IndoAnon>Would you recommend for or against booking summer holidays?18:38
LjLQ: We have the scientific committee... how many people, 20, 30, 40? (Borrelli) It depends on the subject, it varies. Q: When we read the decree about the task force, we see they must first communicate with the scientific committee, then with the government. My question is, sometimes we've thought, among all these committee, who decides in the end? Please don't tell me "the government". We want to know dates, timeframes, what the regions want to do, EU 18:39
LjLguidelines...? And a second question: the 7 million disabled people, there are a lot of people with chronic disease, and they are abandoned now. They are sent home, they cannot be treated as there is no assistance at home, they are unwanted in hospitals... what is the scientific committee thinking wrt these people?18:39
pwr22lol18:39
IndoAnonis there any tour agent who still  do business in the first place?18:39
pwr22people got totally the wrong priorities there18:39
LjLA: I think this pandemic showed, on a worldwide level, that we need an answer touching on various aspects of our lives: not just healthcare, but also operations (Civil Protection, etc) but also a social and economic part... I think the choice by the Government to nominate this committee was right, because it lets the deciders (and you must let me say this, this is not an emergency where I can decide, or some Commissioner... it's about essential interest of 18:40
LjLour society, that must be decided at the top level, so, in the government, with coordination with the regions).18:40
LjLSo... I'll say again, the committee will provide its contribution within the timeframe needed for the government to decide further. I'm sorry to answer this way, but it is just this way: only our Council of Minister can take these decisions.18:41
pwr22Supermarket in UK where no one seems to give any fucks18:41
IndoAnonpwr22: no fucking masks? 18:41
LjL(Antonelli) If I may add... in modern medicine, aside from specific competences, multi-disciplinary abilities are important. In this emergency that's very important. Then about your question, I'd say the problem is even wider: this emergency affected not just disabled people or people with chronic disease, but also, for instance, cancer patients, who are waiting for surgeries and cannot have them... so both centrally and regionally, many hospitals... let 18:43
LjLme finish please... I mean something else, I mean the regions have oriented towards a choice of "COVID hospitals". Why? Because it lets them concentrate, with cautiousness, the people hit by this disease, and in turn that allows de-congesting the other hospitals, which right now are too crowded and cannot effectively treat both the COVID patients and many other patients. They cannot keep up. So that's one strategy that was put in place to provide an answer 18:43
LjLand start a process to go back to some "normality".18:43
LjLAnd in the meanwhile, yes? Yes, sure, but this is something that is happening all over the world: the objective difficulties pose new problems, and make it so that some people, unfortunately, are scared to go to hospitals, or for other reasons, they just cannot receive the assistance they used to get. But we're all working together on this, and at least in some areas we're seeing some answers.18:44
IndoAnonA coof from infected, will infect dozens of people at that setting 18:45
LjLQ: A question to Prof. Antonelli as a member of the scientific committee: clearly, what indications did it give to the government on re-opening activities? If companies can guarantee safety, the committee's opinion is to re-open, or not?18:45
LjLHave we also considered prioritizing tests for healthcare workers and also relatives that are taking care of disabled people? If the person loses that assistance, they can no longer get it. So why have we not tested this category of people? It's about the life of their assisted, too.18:46
LjLA: As a scientific committee member I can only tell you that it's a complex job and the members who are in the committee did determine a profile to be applied. It is currently in a final phase of elaboration, and my colleagues will give you an answer later.18:46
pwr22IndoAnon: some people did have them but most no and just behaving completely normally in the shop - not distancing18:46
pwr22Annoyingly18:46
LjLFor the test, it's one of the things that could be done, but requesting tests is very complex, as it concerns such a great amount of people that it sometimes has to be viewed practically.18:47
LjLQ: So for now the scientific committee has NOT decided to make tests on people assisting disabled people?18:47
pwr22LjL: the PHE data now comes in a binary format with mentions of palantir in the header of the requests....18:47
LjLA: Of course they have, but they are prioritizing based on the actual ability to provide tests.18:47
LjL(Borrelli) Okay, that's it for today. Good evening.18:47
LjL--- end18:47
IndoAnonlol18:47
LjLpwr22, how's the covidly data for you? it does have subnational data, although sometimes it looks... weird18:48
LjLlike for instance yesterday England alone has more new positives than the UK as a whole18:48
LjLwhich isn't exactly right18:48
LjLbut still18:48
l0ndoneris uk still looking at April 27th for partial lifting?18:49
l0ndonerhows IT doing with partial lifting 18:49
IndoAnonpwr22: on the social distancing part... people still unaware of that LjL: So, they are testing some of those  life-assist people, but not the entirety?18:50
LjLIndoAnon, i think what he said translates more like to "we know we should, but we can't"18:51
LjLmaybe i shouldn't just translate this from italian to english18:51
LjLbut also from bureaucratese to english18:51
LjLbecause Borrelli is reeeally strong on bureaucratese (his guests, depends; yesterday's press conference had Dr Rezza and he gave relatively interesting answers)18:52
IndoAnonhmm, "ability to make test" is quite vague18:52
LjLwell i can tell you what my much on it is18:53
LjLmy hunch*18:53
LjLnow i'm hearing Lombardy's press conference (not live, from earlier, youtube just had it as its next thing after the countrywide press conference), and they're saying they're finally moving towards adding serology tests to the PCR testing18:55
IndoAnonok18:57
pwr22LjL: `{"owner":"palantir","group":"supergroup","permissions":"rw-r--r--"}`18:57
pwr22Why?18:57
LjLpwr22, wut?18:57
LjLi have no idea what that is :P18:58
pwr22It's in one of the headers of the response18:59
bin_bash...18:59
pwr22`x-ms-meta-hdi_permission: {"owner":"palantir","group":"supergroup","permissions":"rw-r--r--"}`18:59
pwr22Palantir area company known for spying and dodgy shit18:59
bin_bashlol "i dont know why this thing is in my own repo" is scary18:59
pwr22Also that seems to be leaking unnecessary data19:00
LjLpwr22, oh, the response from the UK's new site?19:03
LjLi am very bad with HTML and anything related19:04
LjLbin_bash, it's in my repo?19:04
bin_bashre-reading i misunderstood what he was saying, i didnt click the link but took pwr22's comment to mean it's in your repo19:07
LjLHere's my transcription of today's Civil Protection press conference in Italy: https://dpaste.org/rb0f nothing really very interesting today, yesterday's had Dr Rezza with some vaguely interesting answers.19:07
LjLbin_bash, my "repo" is just a github thing with a README.md which is what sources the entire list of links that's in the topic, and LICENSE that says you can use it19:08
LjLthat's all there is in there19:08
LjLi was told to use github because people wanted history and using a pastebin seemed lame19:08
bin_bashah19:08
bin_bashI thought it was for the bot19:08
pwr22Apparently UK pays palantir to do health data19:10
bin_bashLOL19:11
pwr22I'll reverse engineer the dashboard later, it's gonna take a little while19:12
pwr22I can quickly improve the error handling though19:12
ecksonly +3,000 in Italy today, nice19:19
python476wut19:20
python476case not death right ?19:21
python476right, and ~only 300 deaths19:21
LjLpython476, no, deaths are more19:22
LjLbut i've only listened to the data from the press conference19:22
LjLBrainstorm hasn't sent an update yet19:23
LjL(Covidly is not that quick to update)19:23
ecks+602 deaths19:23
LjLand i haven't looked at the usual site19:23
LjLecks, that's a little more than yesterday right?19:23
ecks566 yesterday19:23
LjL+2972 is the "true" new cases number19:23
ubLXIpwr22: don't know if you've seen this: https://github.com/tomwhite/covid-19-uk-data - the author tries to keep on top of daily changes in reporting; might be useful to you for comparing notes19:24
LjLslightly less than yesterday19:24
LjLdeaths slightly more19:24
LjLso we continue with the trend of being slightly meh19:24
LjLwhich sounds italian enough, but19:24
python476ah shit then19:25
mefistofelesstill slowing down, just not as fast as others19:25
pwr22ubLXI: it's being used in a WIP PR currently sitting in the repo but thanks for sharing anyway19:26
pwr22One advantage of this new dashboard is that it aggregates all the regions19:26
pwr22*devolved regions19:26
LjLfewer tests today, more positives among them19:27
LjL27000 tests, 11.1% positive (and remember i learned yesterday these test numbers include the "double negatives" recovered people must get)19:27
LjLbut milan is dipping slightly today, whew19:27
mefistofeleshttps://i.imgur.com/3Z7MdGX.png 19:27
LjL(although it can be just delayed data, but let me whew anyway)19:27
LjLhospitalizations are going *up* slightly today19:28
LjLnot ICU though19:28
mefistofelesthey can now take milder cases19:28
\n3p\https://www.visualcapitalist.com/infection-trajectory-flattening-the-covid19-curve/19:35
l0ndoneruk no where near 100,000 tests a day 19:45
l0ndonercant see us reaching it19:45
mefistofelesl0ndoner: hmm, yes, not likely19:52
LjLblah, i'm not entirely sure Brainstorm is working... i split it into three to ease its workload but it's posting no RSS feeds, even though the logs hint that it's processing them ;(20:01
ubLXIpwr22: oof oof oof what a ball of fail - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/uk-government-using-confidential-patient-data-in-coronavirus-response20:07
l0ndonerLjL: error logs?20:07
LjLthe logs look kinda fine20:07
LjLwell no they don't20:08
LjLwatchdog killing it, because i am not sending watchdog keepalives with the new setup20:08
LjLthat would kind of explain it20:08
\n3p\ Mexico’s unfolding presidential tragedy https://www.ft.com/content/6abcb55c-7a47-11ea-af44-daa3def9ae0320:09
l0ndonerI cant read FT I aint got a sub :(20:10
LjL%cases us20:11
BrainstormLjL: In all areas, US, there are 595351 cases (0.2% of the population) and 24719 deaths (4.2% of cases) as of 6 minutes ago. 2.9 million tests were performed (20.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.20:11
LjL%cases united states20:11
BrainstormLjL: In all areas, US, there are 595351 cases (0.2% of the population) and 24719 deaths (4.2% of cases) as of 6 minutes ago. 2.9 million tests were performed (20.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.20:11
IndoAnon>Over the past month, the Mexican president has brandished a six-leafed clover he says will protect him against the coronavirus and he has repeatedly violated his own government’s advice on social distancing, on one occasion shaking the hand of the mother of the country’s most infamous convicted drug trafficker. 20:13
IndoAnon>brandished a six-leafed clover 20:13
IndoAnonWhat he meant by this?20:13
LjLIndoAnon, they are believed to bring good luck in various cultures20:14
LjLalthough i usually would content me with four-leaved as a child20:14
LjLsix seems difficult to find!20:15
IndoAnoneven 4-leaf it's quite difficult20:15
LjLwell that's the idea20:15
LjLwhen you find one, it's a rare find, and it means you'll be lucky20:15
LjLdon't question superstitino!20:15
IndoAnonlel20:15
LjLmight as well mean you found a clover with a genetic mutation, and it means you'll get cancer20:16
LjLbut hey that's just my interpretation20:16
IndoAnonkek20:16
IndoAnonwhat's next? nine-leaved?20:17
mefistofelesno, 9 is not prime, only primes after that20:17
LjLmaybe now every country's leader will start a race to finding the most-leaved clover20:17
LjLthey'll divert labs from making a vaccine to making many-leaved clovers20:17
mefistofelesand then we get the rule of prime distribution from clover biology20:17
mefistofelessolved... next!20:18
LjLO.o20:18
LjLalso, leafed or leaved?20:18
IndoAnon(ง ื▿ ื)ว 20:18
pynaleafed imho20:18
LjLargh, bot still getting killed by watchdog20:35
mefistofelesLjL: too much memory?20:38
LjLno20:39
LjLsystemd's watchdog that is actually meant to kill the bot if it stops responding20:39
mefistofelesLjL: then why watchdog kills it?20:39
mefistofelesah ok20:39
LjLi am running three bots now (which get merged into one Brainstorm by znc) but apparently i have to figure out some details20:40
LjLearthquake stuff, and RSS stuff, are running separate from the rest now because they are the most taxing tasks20:40
LjLand python 2 multithreads horribly20:40
mefistofelesoh yeah :/20:40
LjLon the other hand, it's also not sending COVID updates, despite the %cases command working, and that's definitely not because of the watchdog...20:41
LjLwell, probably not20:41
LjL%cases italy20:41
BrainstormLjL: In all areas, Italy, there are 162488 cases (0.3% of the population) and 21067 deaths (13.0% of cases) as of 6 minutes ago. 1.1 million tests were performed (15.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data.20:41
LjLalso that "as of 6 minutes ago" shows my new logic for giving realistic timestamps isn't working20:41
l0ndonerLjL: serious question why not each process in there own docker20:44
LjLbecause likely *then* i'd run out of RAM :P20:45
LjLalso... how'd it help? i mean it could marginally help with security but it's not like docker gives me more CPU time somehow20:45
l0ndonerahh ok ill leave you to it 20:46
l0ndonerforget I spoke20:46
LjLi actually tried it once anyway, but turned out i'd have to find a completely different way to obtain a watchdog, because systemd's watchdog doesn't play well with docker and there's a bug filed about it from ages ago but it's still there20:47
l0ndonerrunning pihole in docker and the average is amazing load average: 0.00, 0.03, 0.0020:49
LjLwell it's not docker giving you good load averages though, it's pihole :P20:50
l0ndonergoing to setup rosetta@home on docker see hpw many instances I can run lol20:50
LjLSpec, https://np.reddit.com/r/italy/comments/g1799b/it_took_a_pandemic_but_the_us_is_finally/ ;P20:51
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 18:48 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Head lice drug emerges as potential coronavirus treatment, studies show - ABC News → https://is.gd/2PUJq220:51
LjLyay20:51
LjLi mean, double yay20:52
LjLfor drug and for RSS working again20:52
LjLalso it's the first time it even posts from Reddit (test)20:52
LjLwhich is my multi for all things coronavirus20:52
LjLubLXI, oh gawd, now even THE GUARDIAN is asking me to register to see their article!20:53
LjLi want the €5 i donated to them back!20:53
LjLRegister for free and continue reading20:53
LjLThe Guardian’s independent journalism is still free to read20:53
LjLRegistering lets us understand you better. This means that we can build better products and start to personalise the adverts you see so we can charge more from advertisers in the future.20:53
LjLno, not "free", not for many definitions of that20:53
LjLnice move to do that in the middle of a pandemic, of all times20:54
LjLclassy20:54
LjLbut also, interestingly, if i change the URL to .co.uk it redirects me back to .com *anyway*, but also, it doesn't ask me to register20:54
SpecLjL: lol20:55
LjLi mean, it still has a giant banner encouraging me to register but i can close the banner20:55
SpecLjL: soon we might realize the importance of social safety mechanisms, healthcare, and how healthy the rich are when roasted over a low flame for 36 hours and coated in herbs and spices20:55
Specerrr20:56
Spechow tasty*20:56
LjL:D20:56
LjLSpec, aerogarden herbs?20:56
l0ndoner reading somewhere not sure if it was the gaurdian that covid-19 is named the posh virus because rich westerners travelling around the world infected all the poor20:58
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 18:53 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Francia → https://is.gd/MvB3Kj20:58
\n3p\l0ndoner, not far from true. In Mexico the first cases were bankers 21:00
XipHey uhm, I got some info from Sweden, take this with grain of salt.21:01
l0ndoneryea mainly extremely rich people traveling to wealthy ski resorts and health spas and alike contracted it then infecte the poor .. Not sure of the truth to it but makes a lot of sense21:01
XipMars, 8300~ ish immmigrants were taken in for no reason and were not tested in Sweden.21:01
l0ndonerxip where the immigrants come from... Because Sweden is a long way from southern borders21:02
Xipl0ndoner, No idea, just now the number21:03
Xipl0ndoner, It was at least 830021:03
Xipl0ndoner, And they were not tested21:03
Xipknow*21:03
l0ndonersource?21:03
XipI will see..21:03
\n3p\l0ndoner, of course there were no intention and they must not be demonized for that. 21:04
XipI got to take care of some thing with my company, but I promise you I will get the source in a momnt21:04
CovBotPublic Health England have changed their data format so I've temporarily disabled those stats until I'm updated on how to fetch them. I do know about healthcare regions in Finland now though 😛.21:06
l0ndonerLjL: Try Fanboys Annoyance list There is a rule theguardian.com##.site-message in the list somewhere21:07
l0ndonerthats only browser based wont work for scripts I dont think21:07
Xiphttps://www.migrationsverket.se/Om-Migrationsverket/Statistik/Beviljade-uppehallstillstand-oversikter.html21:08
XipTotalt21:09
Xip21:09
Xip8 28521:09
Xip21:09
Xip25 42721:09
jester26 7221:09
l0ndonerxip ahhh Jan to March?21:09
XipMars21:09
Xip828521:10
XipNo stop to it =)21:10
XipAnd they test none of them.21:10
XipAnd that's what they tell you, who knows..21:11
\n3p\USA | Exclusive – Adm. Brett Giroir Details Public Health Infrastructure to Reopen America: ‘Surveillance, Testing, Contact Tracing’ https://is.gd/Ozymfn21:11
XipSo why would you take in that many people, without testing?21:12
l0ndonerthats a lot of immigrants for one month March but your 3 month total is 25k21:12
XipThey don't test them21:12
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 19:10 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: COVID-19: How many asymptomatic people could be walking around? → https://is.gd/bOmVjI21:13
XipThis is not fake news, I am literally showing you facts21:13
XipWe still bring in people for no reason, we are not closed, and they are trying to make sure now that we can "help" even more people21:14
l0ndoneris that an official website or someones blog?21:14
XipIt's a gov site21:14
lf94govna21:14
XipIt's the Swedish Migration Agency 21:15
l0ndonerI cant answer for sweden xip but thats a big wow21:15
XipJust so you know21:17
XipIt will be interesting to see if Sweden will become the "Hero" once again21:19
XipThey changed the topic from global warming to now this pandemic 21:19
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews Live* at 19:17 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Nate Silver su Twitter: "It increasingly looks like New York, both the state and the city, have not merely flattened but probably bent the COVID-19 curve downward. https://t.co/bMGWOzS8lC" → https://is.gd/St9Xm121:20
XipIt could be that Sweden just simply cares about science and the rest of the world cares about something else..21:20
XipAnd fear is so strong, and for some reason Sweden does the opposite this time21:21
XipTo be honest, I thought we'd be seeing the opposite21:21
XipSweden is always the fringe21:21
XipWhat the hell is going on?21:21
gloopssweden is very sparsely populated21:22
gloopsthey dont see anyone day to day anyway21:22
XipI went back to work21:22
l0ndonerhow many matropolis sweden has?21:22
XipStockholm21:22
XipGöteborg and Malmö21:23
XipThat said, it doesn't really matter, our country is not in any lockdown21:23
gloopssweden has something like 12 people km^221:23
XipWe are free, which is so weird...21:23
gloopsUK has 25021:24
gloopsthats the difference21:24
XipYea but..21:24
XipWe're a much bigger country21:24
XipMost of the area, people don't live, I am in my cozy place21:24
\n3p\Xip Sweden is a governed by neo-hippies, SJW assholes and woke nonsense  21:24
gloopsit probably wont spread at a rate that will overwhelm your health care21:25
XipI believe that people the culture helps21:25
gloopsyes \n3p\ 21:25
gloopsthere is ideology involved as well21:25
gloopsthe feminazis are ultra liberal21:25
XipI don't got an official source but I've been told that somalias and immigrants are like 80% of all the deaths here21:25
gloopsexcept when it comes to oppressing white males21:26
mefistofelesgloops: take your discriminatory language somewhere else, please21:26
mefistofelesor mind the name calling and  language21:26
l0ndonerTories for years and years been trying to kill off the NHS the moment they could have... They sacrificed a whole country to save it 21:26
l0ndonermind blown21:26
XipI may have a source for that too..21:26
XipAnyway Swedes are not really hurt by this at all and we are open21:27
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 19:24 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: La Spagna è il paese con più morti per coronavirus in relazione al numero di abitanti → https://is.gd/FEL72x21:27
gloopsl0ndoner well, that seems to confirm that the establishment is very worried21:27
XipWe are now in the coming of weeks going to open up even more21:27
XipI was worried myself21:27
l0ndonerxip whats the age demographic for sweden?21:28
gloopsi dont believe this virus is a natural mutation21:28
l0ndonerItaly have a lot of elderly21:28
Xipl0ndoner, no idea, like 80+21:28
gloopswe are dealing with SARs II21:28
XipBut we don't know what the virus does to you eventually21:28
mefistofelesgloops: well, if you have a way to proof that scientifically, you should publish and get rich21:28
l0ndonerxip is sweden mainly young > middle aged > or old like italioans?21:29
gloopsi dont, obviously21:29
mefistofelesbecause experts have looked into that and they all agree it's natural21:29
mefistofelesgloops: evidently21:29
mefistofelesgloops: but at least you can contradict the experts on this, right? or else why would you think they are wrong?21:29
gloopswhich experts mefistofeles21:29
XipIt's far dangerous to close down the society21:29
XipAnd what the rest of the world is doing, who knows21:30
gloopsother experts are saying theres no way it can be natural21:30
XipIs Sweden the truly free country?21:30
mefistofelesgloops: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 or https://nextstrain.org/ncov for example21:30
l0ndonerxip UK is lock down but I am classed key worker21:30
mefistofelesgloops: source?21:30
XipNothing is closed down here still21:30
gloopshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htMUCYkFO6M21:30
mefistofeleslol21:30
mefistofelesyour source is youtube?21:30
l0ndonerxip but what is infection rate for sweden?21:31
\n3p\gloops, If COVID-19 is a weapon then Chinese suicide with it. They are the most damage country. Not likely. 21:31
l0ndonerthat has a lot to do with it21:31
gloopsthats where videos are posted21:31
XipIf you ask me, I'm in Stockholm right now and no one seems to care about the virus21:31
XipAnd it's odd21:31
mefistofelesgloops: well, that's not where science is posted mostly21:31
mefistofelesgloops: so, again try to post a scientific verifiable source, or at least explain why the sources I linked are wrong21:31
gloopsbeing lab created doesnt make it a weapon21:31
l0ndoner!covid sweden21:31
CoronaBotSweden: Global rank: #21, cases: 11,445 (+497), fatalities: 1,033 (+114), active cases: 10,031, total recovered: 381, in a serious condition: 915. Mortality: 9.03%, case fatality rate: 73.06%, cases/1M: 1133.0, deaths/1M: 102.0. Case rate: 465/24h, death rate: 20/24h. Tests: 54,700, tests/1M: 5,416.21:31
mefistofelesgloops: nobody is saying that21:32
gloopsthey were obviously experimenting with SARs and corona viruses21:32
mefistofelesit'snot lab created, either21:32
gloopsbat viruses CANNOT infect humans21:32
LjLmefistofeles, \n3p\ kinda did, to be fair21:32
mefistofelesgloops: many labs in the world are, that doesn't proove anything21:32
mefistofelesLjL: what?21:32
gloopsCovid-19 s-proteins are 100% match for SARs21:32
mefistofelesgloops: no, they are not 100%21:32
XipThis virus is not that dangerous. What is dangerous is the lockdown.21:32
mefistofelesyou don't even have your facts right :/21:32
LjLmefistofeles, \n3p\ implied that gloops was implying that the virus is a weapon by implying that it is lab-made / not-natural21:33
\n3p\LjL, I don't believe the virus was enginiered 21:33
l0ndonercovid-19 protein splits very similar to HiV 21:33
XipBut we don't know, of course. Maybe we are the control group, who knows...21:33
mefistofelesLjL: ah ok, missed that21:33
gloopsthe overal DNA is 89% match for SARs which is expected21:33
l0ndonerI think its more a branch from HiV21:33
LjL\n3p\, okay, that doesn't mean it DOESN'T come from a lab, technically21:33
XipI'm starting to think there is less science outside Sweden..21:33
mefistofelesgloops: no, 89% is not the number either21:33
gloopsbut the s-proteins are 100%21:33
LjLlabs can definitely leak things by mistakes21:33
LjLbecause they are run by humans21:33
XipIn fact, there is so much fake news21:33
mefistofelesgloops: check your facts, but all this just points how weak your argument is :/21:33
LjLon another note: https://keyt.com/health/2020/04/13/are-surfers-safe-from-the-coronavirus-health-officer-says-ocean-water-is-potentially-infectious/ ← bit of a stretch?21:33
gloopsmefistofeles youre just nitpicking 21:34
\n3p\LjL, it could come from a lab in Wuhan but most probably a mistake from some employee there21:34
gloopsthe figures are in the ball park21:34
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 19:31 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: 13th April - UK's daily death toll compared with Italy's, Spain's, France's and Germany's → https://is.gd/6PyWcq21:34
mefistofelesgloops: I'm just saying what you are saying is incorrect21:34
XipIf this was so dangerous why has Sweden not been shutdown yet? It's literally the country that will host the nobel prize.21:34
gloopsit isnt coincidence21:34
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: 8 in 10 Americans would wait to resume activities after government lifts coronavirus restrictions: poll (10018 votes) | https://redd.it/g143rb21:34
XipEven this year.21:34
bin_bashXip: because they want to wipe out the poor migrants /s21:35
mefistofelesgloops: funny how you trust numbers from experts on the similarity with SARS and then decide to ignore them over a youtube video for crazy conspiracy theories21:35
mefistofelesxD21:35
mefistofelesagain, pretty weak argument21:35
explorein places like taiwan and hong kong, there's not so much epic irc debating going on, more shut up and walk the walk going on21:35
l0ndonercovid-19 protein tears or splits very very similar to HiV 21:35
XipPeople are so eager to want to kill the "Swedish model"21:35
exploredeadly viruses are easy, just do the right thing21:35
gloopswhat im saying is bat corona cannot infect humans21:35
LjLlet's see how long the "Swedish model" keeps up21:35
XipThis will put it to a test for real21:35
gloopsthe bat story is just that21:35
gloopsa cover story21:35
mefistofelesgloops: yes, that's known21:35
l0ndonerand we have slowed HiV down so I think HiV drugs may have effects soon21:36
LjLif the "Swedish model" means "do nothing at all"21:36
\n3p\Of course just speculations. Only CCP knows what really happened21:36
mefistofelesthat's why they are looking for a middle host 21:36
mefistofelespangolins are very likely21:36
gloopsso how can you be so sure that this apparent bat corona isnt lab altered21:36
mefistofelesbut not known still21:36
LjLgloops, no one is saying that a bat virus directly infected humans. it has always been said there was an intermediate host.21:36
XipOld people must stay at home21:36
XipSince day 121:36
LjLgloops, you may not believe that, but you can't ignore it and pretend something is being claimed that isn't21:36
XipKids should stay at school21:37
mefistofelesgloops: it's not that I'm sure it is, it is that you are sure it isn't, so please enlight us21:37
XipTo make this herd immunity21:37
gloopsand we just cant happen to find an intermediate when it would be infested with the virus21:37
LjLXip, and kids who live with old people ...? maybe that works in Sweden. wouldn't work in Italy.21:37
XipThey will become a wall21:37
LjL(anyway i don't think it'll work in Sweden either)21:37
gloopsthis didnt start in wuhan21:37
l0ndonerif there are super carriers is it feasable there are super immunities ?21:37
gloopsthats a cover, a diversion21:37
gloopsthey released it there21:38
mefistofelesgloops: do you have *any* evidence of what you are saying, so far, none21:38
XipI am starting to think the Swedish model actually works21:38
gloopsto pretend it started naturally21:38
LjLgloops, i believe ##coronavirus-vox is fond of this type of argument that's full of claims that remain unsubstantiated or substantiated by youtube videos21:38
LjLbut we aren't fond of them here21:38
XipSorry to be so... Swedish.21:38
mefistofelesgloops: ↑21:38
XipScience works.21:38
l0ndonermefistofeles: there was a fire at a lab in wuhan china and ever since .....21:38
mefistofelesl0ndoner: xD21:39
LjLi don't feel i can completely rule out accidental release from a lab, tbh21:39
bin_bashXip: it's ironic considering the swedish government is NOT following science21:39
LjLbut that doesn't mean i start making a ton of very specific theories21:39
Xipbin_bash, In what way?21:39
bin_bashin what way is it ironic?21:39
XipLjL, You are the head of this channel, check yourself21:39
LjLXip, excuse me?21:39
bin_basho.o21:39
XipLjL, You literally wanted me banned all day long when I said that this would become a pandemic21:40
LjLactually i need to have dinner21:40
LjLXip, what?21:40
LjLyou are insane Xip21:40
XipLjL, And now I'm a moderate21:40
LjLthis is not an overstatement21:40
LjLyou make things up21:40
l0ndonerxip I think your reading too much into it mate21:40
LjLXip, and if you want to claim i banned you BECAUSE you said this would become a pandemic21:41
LjLshow logs21:41
XipLjL, Remember when I said this would become a pandemic when you made this channel?21:41
LjLif you can't show logs21:41
LjLapologize21:41
XipI don't do logs21:41
LjLthen shut the fuck up21:41
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 19:34 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Police Kick Down Door Over Suspected Coronavirus Gathering → https://is.gd/h7g3Zk21:41
LjLbecause i did not ban you for saying this would become a pandemic21:41
XipI don't log anyone21:41
XipI'm not gestapo21:41
exploreLjL: when people make arguments like "some government actor planted this virus" it is easy for the skeptic to say, okay, this is pretty familiar to me, someone is trying to drive a wedge between china and usa and start some unnecessary shit, i have seen this before, I think CNN went to Macedonia and some village in Africa to interview these fake news people paid by some rich cat in Russia21:41
LjLthen don't put words in my mouth21:41
pokiehlYour chat logs idiot, clients most of the time automatically save them21:41
XipLjL, I know you got a good heart21:41
l0ndoner<<------ need ph000d bbl21:42
LjLpokiehl, don't call people idiots for no reason. there are plenty of clients that don't automatically log21:42
exploreLjL: and there will be gullible people who just go along with this sort of crap21:42
XipLjL, And you know I got a good heart too21:42
XipI'm just chatting21:42
XipI want everything to get back to normal21:42
LjLXip, what i know is that you are often stating you are drunk and you have some mood swings and you often misunderstand things21:42
exploreLjL: https://www.wired.com/2017/02/veles-macedonia-fake-news/21:42
LjLi want to believe you simply misunderstood that one21:42
LjLbecause i most certainly never banned you FOR thinking this would become a pandemic21:42
exploreLjL: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/31/europe/russia-africa-propaganda-intl/index.html21:43
XipLjL, You mood swings, you promised me not to talk about that21:43
LjLi promised?21:43
XipLjL, You did21:43
exploreLjL: so i feel really sorry for people who can't be critical of what they read21:43
LjLi can see your mood swings right here21:43
XipLjL, I see21:43
LjLi don't need to draw from anything you said in private21:43
LjLit is pretty darned obvious21:43
LjLand you know what else? i have mood swings too21:43
LjLand there is a damned wind outside and i feel bad21:43
XipLjL, No need to say that21:43
LjLso if you want to be banned again, keep saying crap like this21:44
LjLnow bye, dinner21:44
\n3p\explore, if it were easy to design viruses then we have a new one every month. That's crazy21:44
XipLjL, Banned?21:44
\n3p\There are no winners of a pandemic. All the world is suffering from it.21:45
mefistofelesXip: I suggest you take that elsewhere, or privately21:45
mefistofeleswe don't really care how you and Ljl are in love or in hate or whatever21:45
Xipmefistofeles, Who cares how this entire protocol works right21:46
XipWe are all friends21:46
davrosis this a "it's engineered" debate21:46
bin_bashyou're only friends with yourself21:46
mefistofelesXip: no, we are not friends, but we are expected to respect others and behave, common sense21:46
Xipmefistofeles, The war has not even begun21:46
exploreso have you guys tested any food that taste alright to your taste buds and stores well? 21:46
mefistofelesdavros: it was, or hardly was even21:46
mefistofelesdavros: just the usual claims without any evidence or reasoning21:47
explorei have ttested those instant oatmeals from Quaker, it hasn't killed me (famous last words)21:47
explorethere's specks of some dried fruit in it, like peach21:47
davrosreleasing a pandemic is a good idea if you already have a bunker, i guess, but its more likely it was natural IMO.21:47
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test)* at 19:45 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Loss of Smell and Taste Validated as COVID-19 Symptoms in Patients with High Recovery Rate → https://is.gd/h0xTnk21:48
gloopsmaybe not released but escaped21:48
XipSo the problem with this is food 21:49
gloopswhy did china try to cover it up?21:49
pokiehlexplore: food food or instant food?21:49
exploregloops: may have leaked from the stale pizzas left on the movie set of the Andromeda Strain.. shut up already21:49
davrosdidn't want the world to lose faith in it21:49
XipAs long as you got food and friends, you'll make it21:49
gloopsbecause they thought they could get it back in the bottle and nobody would know a virus had escaped which had unknown traits21:49
exploregloops: take your stupid conspiracy crap else where21:50
\n3p\gloops, because the economy suffer21:50
mefistofelesgloops: they were not sure it was a new thing, that's hard to say with such few data and the current state of the art in clinics/biological sciences don't allow that quick detection of new viruses21:50
davrosright like now more people are talking about divorcing themselves from the chinese supply chain21:50
mefistofelesso, if you cause panic with a false claim it is worse21:50
davrosso china had an incentive to hide it21:50
gloopsconspiracy to question chinas propaganda?21:50
mefistofelesspecially when the real thing comes later, remember that boy and the wolf?21:50
exploregloops: actually let me rephrase this, take your stupid crap else where21:51
davrosits funny how there's conspiracy theories both ways21:51
gloopsexplore fuck off and die21:51
davros"it's all exagerated, it's just flu and the people would have died anyway" versus "china hides the true deathtoll whihc is much worse" 21:51
mefistofelesexplore: respect21:51
mefistofelesexplore: that was uncalled for21:51
XipWhen it comes to water, there are certain chemicals you need to have clean drinking water21:52
XipIt will have some issues in the coming months21:52
mefistofelesI just trust we are smart enough not to fall into that game and solve things with insults like little kids21:52
explorenah, ignoring logic and starting anti-science bullshit to further political and racial agendas is uncalled for21:52
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: NYC hospital plays 'Don't Stop Believin'' every time a COVID-19 patient is discharged (10050 votes) | https://redd.it/g134du21:52
mefistofelesexplore: sure it is, but there's nothing forbidding you to think that way21:52
mefistofelesthere'sa right to be ignorant or stupid or whatever that is21:53
mefistofelesexplore: and you insulting someone because of that, crosses a line21:53
explorei didn't insult him21:53
XipLook into your countries and where you are in the supply chain, because everything is falling apart21:53
explorei insulted his words21:53
mefistofelesexplore: ok, yes, but pretty close, that's why you were not kicked :P21:53
\n3p\ratial agenda? who? where?21:53
mefistofelesexplore: even so, inciting violence is not welcomed21:54
XipNext few months will be even worse21:54
mefistofelesand not needed, again, I just trust people here are smart enough to ignore gloops or whoever crazy talk21:54
exploremefistofeles: are you totally confused? did i tell him to fuck off and die or did he me?21:54
exploremefistofeles: shouldn't you be reprimending him?21:54
mefistofelesexplore: he left21:54
XipJust saying..21:54
exploremefistofeles: or are you just like.. the same bullshit as him?21:54
mefistofelesexplore: and he reacted that way because of you21:54
exploremefistofeles: i can't tell any more21:54
mefistofelesexplore: ok, bye bye21:54
mefistofelesrelax ;)21:55
XipWhat we need to do is make sure we help each other21:55
BrainstormNew from BBC Health at 19:49 UTC: Coronavirus: One in five deaths now linked to virus: Coronavirus prompts spike in mortality with data showing weekly deaths have hit a record high. → https://is.gd/l3X2lX21:55
\n3p\No way! Save yourself Xip21:55
Xip\n3p\, =)21:55
\n3p\:)21:56
Xip\n3p\, I rather die than help myself. I wanted to kill myself years ago for my alcoholism and cocaine abuse21:56
Xip\n3p\, If the gov fails, we will show true solidarity21:57
XipNo gov bails21:57
\n3p\I'm a believer of natural selection.21:57
XipSame same, but I mean, no banker bailout here21:58
\n3p\Xip, agree on that21:58
XipWe'll hang them if they think they can get some millions out of this mess21:58
\n3p\Capitalism means let the assholes broke!21:58
\n3p\broke > bankrupt21:59
XipI promise you this, I will use everything I have to help everyone to the end, and I kill myself in the end if it doesn't work21:59
XipBitcoin is not a joke, it's a hedge22:00
bin_bashbitcoin is a joke22:00
mefistofeleswhat if we talk about something more covid-19 related and not individual feelings/problems? :)22:00
Xipbin_bash, as mefistofeles said22:00
XipBut I mean it.22:00
bin_bashbitcoin is a joke, this is not an individual problem22:01
pokiehlhahaha22:01
XipAnd PM me if you got true economical issues and I will do my best to help you.22:01
Xip"haha"...22:01
XipThere's a reason Bitcoin exists. It's a hedge.22:01
bin_bashi don't have economic problems, i'm making money by pushing buttons22:02
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 19:59 UTC: (news): Doctors worry the coronavirus is keeping patients away from US hospitals as ER visits drop: 'Heart attacks don't stop' → https://is.gd/wptkpy22:02
XipI've helped maybe 30 people here on Freenode22:02
bin_bashgood for you22:03
XipI could do nothing?22:03
bin_bashyou could, yeah22:03
XipMm22:03
Xipbin_bash, Need help?22:03
bin_bashwith what22:03
XipEconomically?22:03
ArsaneritThe regional news here was reporting that the university hospital in Frankfurt has 176 ICU and only 18 of them are occupied because the measures to slow down the pandemic are working reasonably well so far.22:04
bin_bashdid you not read what i said22:04
Arsaneritbitcoin as a practical currency is a joke, because it is a gambling hedge22:04
XipJack from Twitter he moves a third of his cash to UBI now22:05
Arsaneritit is also terribly energy-intensive, so the idea of "free" transfers is a lie22:05
bin_bashit's not even a hedge22:05
XipBut we are just people22:05
XipWe need to all do that22:05
XipThis is real money22:05
Arsaneritwhat does "real money" even mean?22:05
XipWe made those cash, someone gave us that22:05
Arsaneritimho money isn't real22:06
XipMoney is not real?22:06
Arsaneritif we stop believing in money it will have no more value22:06
Arsaneritmoney is not real22:06
XipArsanerit, So if I give you 10 thousand dollars right now.. it's not real?22:06
ArsaneritXip: If a stranger on the internet gives you 10 thousand dollars for nothing, it is almost certainly a scam :-)22:07
bin_bashor a nigerian prince22:07
XipWell of course it's real22:07
XipThe world has not collapsed22:07
XipAnd it won't 22:08
Arsaneritthe value of money only exists because people believe in it22:08
XipWhat a sick world that world it would be22:08
XipNOTHING is fake in the fiat system, there are so many checks you would have to be insane to think otherwise22:09
XipYou think the dollar can not collapse?22:09
BrainstormNew from r/Italy Live* at 20:07 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: A domani → https://is.gd/03Lehn22:09
Arsaneritof course the dollar can collapse22:10
mefistofelesthe dollar collapses respect others, so, which?22:10
mefistofelesI don't see others doing any better22:10
kPaIt's not going to because the majority of the world is worse off and so people are buying dollars as a hedge.22:11
mefistofelesspecially the already big ones22:11
ArsaneritI don't think the dollar will collapse, but it can.22:11
ArsaneritEverything can collapse.  Humanity is finite.22:11
kPaCertainly it can22:11
XipI'd buy some Bitcoin, if I had any dollars. It's strong now.22:11
XipWe are moving to that era, it's going to happen. It's real.22:12
kPaWhy would you buy bitcoin?22:12
ArsaneritBitcoin can certainly collapse.22:12
ArsaneritkPa: gambling addiction?22:12
Arsaneritno more horse races to gamble so bitcoin?22:13
XipBecause this is when Bitcoin takes off.22:13
XipDon't take my word for it.22:13
kPaWhy would it take off?22:13
bin_bashLOL22:13
\n3p\Arsanerit, Euro can certainly collapse.22:13
kPaArsanerit: life is gambling22:13
XipWhy?22:13
XipBecause the world economy will collapse.22:14
bin_bashhahahahahahahhaa22:14
kPaIf the world economy collapsed, why would Bitcoin take off?22:14
Arsanerit\n3p\: certainly22:14
XipLet's see..22:14
\n3p\In Gold We Trust22:14
XipSorry, gold is good too..22:14
XipBut only if you got it phyiscally..22:15
Arsaneritgood luck eating your bitcoin22:15
kPa^22:15
kPaor eating your gold22:15
XipI got a farm22:15
Arsaneritfarm more useful than bitcoin or gold22:15
kPaThe whole point of a hedge is that you cash it in when things go arwy. Everybody cannot cash in their hedges at the same time.22:15
XipI'm self sufficient, I'm a prepper22:15
Arsaneritassuming you know how to work it22:15
mefistofelesI can buy your farm with bitcoin or gold :P22:15
Arsaneritif you have cash to hedge you're better off than the large majority of humanity22:16
Xipmefistofeles, You can buy my farm with Bitcoin? I got more Bitcoin than you I am sure22:16
mefistofelesXip: you cannot know for certain ;)22:16
pokiehlYou'd also need him to agree to selling it :P22:16
Xipmefistofeles, So I'd sell my farm so me and my family would starve22:17
Xipmefistofeles, I'm talking about end game22:17
mefistofelespokiehl: true22:17
mefistofelesbut there are plenty of people that would agree to that22:17
mefistofelesif not Xip 22:17
kPaLet's say the economy totally collapses like you are suggesting. In such a sitution nobody would have electric power. I don't see how bitcoin is advantageous over USD or EUR or JPY at that rate.22:17
Xipmefistofeles, I am saying, Bitcoin could be useful in the end22:17
mefistofelesXip: ok22:18
Xipmefistofeles, We need to keep the economy going once the govs collapse22:18
kPaXip: if you're foreseeing a total economic meltdown, BTC will have all the same problems as any other currency.22:18
Xipmefistofeles, Want me to post you gold by mail?22:18
mefistofelesnot going to happen and the solution to that hypothetical case isn't Bitcoin either22:18
kPaAs if mail still existed in your scenario22:18
XipkPa, Why?22:18
XipkPa, ight22:18
XipkPa, It takes me a millisecond to send you btc22:19
XipkPa, Cost me nothing22:19
kPaWith no electric power? How?22:19
XipPeople think that theres some end to bandwith22:19
XipIt's bullshit22:19
kPaEveryone will revert to bartering in the scenario you are saying will cause BTC to take off into the stratosphere.22:19
Urchin`https://xkcd.com/2293/22:19
XipThe truth is there is no end to broadband22:20
XipIn fact you can send unlimited data in broadband =)22:20
XipIt's fake news22:20
XipData is cheap22:20
kPaIf there's no electricity you can't even send a single byte.22:20
Urchinthere are limits to infrastructure, Xip 22:20
XipUrchin, I know that, but just about the transfer here22:20
kPaThe fact that you're assinging a cost to data implies it's limited, and it is limited. Your ISPs trade bandwidth wholesale with eachother.22:20
XipThe channels are basically free22:21
kPaNo.22:21
ragereven in pre-monetary days, bartering isn't what happened22:21
kPaThere is no marginal cost to you.22:21
ragerpeople instead developed long-running mutualistic relationships22:21
ragerabstract exchange of value requires agreed-upon monetary units22:21
XipStoring things is one thing22:21
Urchinthere's a pretty large expense in making the infrastructure22:21
kPaAnd keeping it powered22:21
Urchindata cables, satellites, etc.22:21
XipBut we could make a very cheap Internet22:21
kPaIt's already very cheap.22:22
XipAnyway22:22
XipInternet is cheap22:22
XipSo don't worry about it22:22
kPaBut you will have no interent without power.22:22
XipWe got nuclear power22:22
XipWe already overcome this whole thing22:23
kPaWho's goign to pay the engineers to keep it running, and the people to keep the transmission lines up if money has no value now?22:23
mefistofeleslol22:23
XipThey get Bitcoin22:23
mefistofelesare we really discussing this seriously? xD22:23
XipAll people that got Bitcoin will naturally pay them until we got it going22:24
kPaxip, then it's not total economic collapse22:24
bin_bashyour argument is circular Xip 22:24
XipkPa, It's a collapse of the states22:24
kPayou think the governments will collapse, but the economy won't?22:24
XipkPa, Mhm22:24
kPathen hodl your USDs and EURs and JPYs22:25
kPasince they'll still be worth something22:25
kPayou said it yourself.22:25
XipI'll hold on to my BTC =)22:25
bin_bashyeah hold it all the way to 022:25
XipWhat I do think will happen though is this...22:26
XipOnce things crumble, they will not want BTC22:26
XipThey will use their own coins and possibly safe ways to keep them22:26
bin_bashyour argument is circular Xip 22:26
Xipin their own communities22:26
XipWell let me rant or?22:27
XipNo nevermind...22:27
bin_bashno22:27
XipIt'll turn alright!22:27
kPathere is no economically meaningful difference in what you are suggesting22:27
XipThings will turn alright22:27
XipWe will find a way22:27
LjLtutto andrà bene22:28
XipBut we will want to deal with our partners22:28
XipRecently I had an employee that I suggested should get a btc based card22:28
XipIt was stuck, but that is just because in his country, he had do this and that22:29
XipInternet will never go away22:29
XipWe are stuck with the web now22:29
bin_bashok so you decided to rant anyway22:30
XipMhm22:30
XipBut sometimes rants are good22:30
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 20:18 UTC: US coronavirus death toll passes 25,000 – live: Cuomo says he will not be forced to unsafely open economy Trump claims ‘total authority’ and attacks media in chaotic briefing Live global updates See all our coronavirus coverage Support the Guardian’s independent journalism. Make a contribution 9.18pm BST → https://is.gd/M1D0Ze22:30
XipWe are all humans here, and I am sure most of us are good people22:31
XipI was lucky to get so much, more than I could ever ask for and I've already "gave away" more than 2/3 of what I made22:32
kPaSome of us here are bots22:32
XipI am not one22:32
XipAnd if I was, I am a shitty one22:32
XipDrug abusing, drunk bot22:33
pokiehlThat's nice of you Xip22:33
XipWe are going to have to rethink everything22:34
ynhof[m]I haven't paidmuch attention til recently and notice altenative condom sizes are hard to come by at stores.22:34
ynhof[m]Idk if its a covid thing, have any of you noticed22:34
XipAll we got is some old school philosophy shit, like socialism, capitalism..22:34
XipAre we not smart enough to think of something that truly resonates with the era we are in now?22:35
XipOf course we are, but we are so fast to attack each other "You're a lunatic!"22:35
XipWe need to calm down and think, what the hell are we supposed to do, maybe UBI?22:36
mefistofelesynhof[m]: appreantly condoms increased significantly in sales22:36
mefistofelesso that may explain it22:36
XipWhat happens if we rape the state with UBI? What should we do after that?22:36
XipWe need a plan, what should we do, once we go UBI, because that is the endgame right now.22:37
pokiehlWell UBI assumes the extistence of a "state" maybe we could even think outside that22:38
XipWhat kind of future do we want? We need to think together. We need to come together. And stop arguing.22:38
XipAll humans need to be together, we leave no one behind.22:38
kPaAnd the future you want is Bitcoin?22:41
XipkPa, Hell no22:41
pepee%title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJX7ZFYspeU22:42
Brainstormpepee: From www.youtube.com: DIY Water Filter! (w/manual siphon pump!) - Off-Grid Water Purifier! cleans water fast! ppm rds - YouTube22:42
pepeeno, wait, wrong link22:42
pepee%title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYJvU81DKgk22:42
Brainstormpepee: From www.youtube.com: Covid-19 : LaVision imaging technique shows how masks restrict the spread of exhaled air - YouTube22:42
XipI will dump Bitcoin the moment I know that love is real22:42
XipSlowly towards goals22:43
XipTo multiple decentralized coins22:43
XipAnd I will show my face too22:44
XipAnd I will tell other people I know that got major holdings to do so too22:44
XipTO make it fair22:44
kPa-.-22:45
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 20:43 UTC: ljl-covid: Add April 6 CP PC → https://is.gd/XIEUR522:45
bin_bashlove is totally real, it's a series of chemical reactions in your brain just like everything else22:45
bin_bashsell your bitcoin now22:46
XipMy idea is anyway that slowly.. we will find a way22:47
XipWhere the new era will show their faces and I will convince them too22:47
kPawoah um LjL that's a lot of commitment22:49
LjLkPa, i'm trying to beat the amount of lines fellow here manages to rant out22:50
LjLalso, seems silly to let dpaste.org posts all expire, useless as there press conferences may be22:50
XipI don't think Bitcoin is a good thing and the faster we get rid of it, the better, we should have multiple decentralized coins, especially those that can prove themselves that require less work, as in.. machine work22:50
XipBut the only concept that works now as it seems is proof is stake22:50
XipNow I am a major stake holder.. of proof of stake coins...22:51
XipAnd so is most libertarians from the old times...22:51
XipSo it is a paradox22:51
LjLisn't this a bit far aware from the COVID topic?22:52
LjLaway*22:52
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 20:47 UTC: ljl-covid: Add April 3 CP PC → https://is.gd/IK5wHH22:52
XipLjL, Yeah.. Sorry.22:52
XipSo.. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.22:53
kPaLOL LjL22:54
XipkPa, LjL is a genius22:54
XipkPa, Don't take him for granted22:54
kPa???22:55
XipkPa, I see him as an intellectual that took his time to make this channel22:56
kPaWhat does any of that have to do with what I said?22:57
XipkPa, Seemed like you made fun of LjL, he's not just "anyone"22:58
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 20:56 UTC: Add March 3 CP PC: This is an early one, partially copyedited but further editing will be needed → https://is.gd/aykDj122:59
LjLXip, when i need a lawyer i'll give you a call :P22:59
LjLbut right now i can defend my own actions fine!22:59
LjLalso trust me if i were a genius i wouldn't be here copypasting hastily translated press conferences22:59
kPaI was lauging at LjL's joke o.O23:00
XipkPa, Where are you at?23:01
bin_bash-at*23:02
kPaI'm connected to Server: kornbluth.freenode.net (Frankfurt, Germany)23:03
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 21:04 UTC: ljl-covid: Add March 22 CP PC → https://is.gd/on4YoK23:06
XipPersonally I think it's dangerous to close down entire countries' economic systems, I guess that was the point. But we'll see when it is over.23:06
LjLi don't think anybody thinks it's NOT dangerous. if anything they think it's (slightly?) less dangerous than most people getting COVID.23:07
kPa^23:07
XipUnless it's a control group in a massive experiment.23:08
XipWHO knows?23:08
LjLgroan23:08
kPa^23:08
XipWHO knows really...23:08
\n3p\USA +2154 deaths today23:10
mefistofelesDerek again, pretty good info on virus https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/13/omeprazole-as-an-additive-for-coronavirus-therapy23:10
XipThey didn't lock down the world for the climate crisis did they.23:12
XipNow you can see they could. Any time.23:13
mefistofelesXip: it's not sure that will solve the crisis, we should already stop pretending the climate crisis/apocalypse can be stopped23:13
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 21:09 UTC: (news): US airlines, Treasury Department reach agreement in principle on billions in coronavirus aid → https://is.gd/vSoE4523:13
mefistofeleswhereas the virus, it's likely to be stopped that way, and has been stopped that way23:13
XipNext one, alien attack? 23:13
lf94Heh, the other day h3h3 reminded me of a site I used to visit23:14
lf94exitmundi23:14
lf94Who remembers that?23:14
XipI loved it23:14
mefistofelesnot me23:14
Xiplf94, my favorite site23:14
lf94Yeah it's a good one23:14
Xiplf94, Still up?23:14
lf94Probably *checks*23:14
lf94Yep!23:15
lf94In all its 2000s glory23:15
Xiplf94, Id even had so nice images23:15
lf94http://www.exitmundi.nl/virus.htm23:15
Xiplf94, First one that made me think about the "simulation theory" but more like the ... "pull the plug theory then"23:15
lf94exitmundi predicted it 30 years ago23:16
mefistofelesso it’s not just a simple “the more ACE2 the worse” situation23:16
Xiplf94, So old! Thank you for reminding me, know who made it?23:16
lf94no23:16
Xiplf94, Exitmundi was some guy here I think23:16
lf94I think it may be the _only_ non-corporate site I've seen still up since I was 8 years old23:17
Xiplf94, Every possible way the world could end23:17
Xiplf94, It meant a lot for me too23:17
Xiplf94, Hey, I got a video for you, since you are a bit exitmundi...23:17
Xiplj9: Seen this one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N5lgUgAQ-g23:18
Xiplj9: If not you will probably enjoy it 23:18
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network * at 21:15 UTC: ljl-covid: Create 2020-04-01-Press-Conference.txt → https://is.gd/PlFJUD23:20
mefistofeleshttps://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/health/disinfectant-coronavirus.html interesting, Derek Lowe also said something about the lack of impact of this when the epidemic was spiking in China23:24
mefistofeles%title23:24
Brainstormmefistofeles: From www.nytimes.com: Does Widespread Disinfecting Kill the Coronavirus? It’s Under Debate - The New York Times23:24
XipThis is also interesting whenever you went through that one23:26
Xiphttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N5lgUgAQ-g23:26
XipThe truth is we don't know, but personally I think it's weird why Strawberries are so great and jumps in evolution23:27
XipIt's a fight23:27
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health at 21:23 UTC: (news): New York Gov. Cuomo says Trump will have 'no fight with me' on coronavirus, but he's 'wrong' on the law → https://is.gd/t2yhu423:27
eleklytr[m]!cases usa23:27
CovBotIn United States there have been a total of 610,206 cases as of 2020-04-14 21:13:00 UTC. Of these 545,856 (89.5%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 38,520 (6.3%) have definitely recovered and 25,830 (4.2%) have died.23:28
XipViruses are part of the universal panspermia23:28
XipThe before and after23:28
XipCould be23:29
XipIf we change something in the end, maybe we change ourselves23:30
eleklytr[m]!cases germany23:31
CovBotIn Germany there have been a total of 131,359 cases as of 2020-04-14 21:13:00 UTC. Of these 59,865 (45.6%) are still sick or may have recovered without being recorded, 68,200 (51.9%) have definitely recovered and 3,294 (2.5%) have died.23:32
Shock%data netherlands23:33
BrainstormShock: In all areas, Netherlands, there are 27419 cases (0.2% of the population) and 2945 deaths (10.7% of cases) as of 13 minutes ago. 134972 tests were performed (20.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands for time series data.23:33
Shockdoes any bot here report the case fatality rate?23:34
XipAlright guys, I'm going...23:36
XipMaybe 1-2 weeks. But what I said. About panspermia. Maybe we as an advanced civ, we could force the next one to spawn viruss...23:37
XipIt's not so mind blowing is it? Is it impossible?23:37
XipWe're just in a bubble anyway, in some kind of freak nature. Don't be afriad.23:38
ryoumai don't think there is teleology or natural order at work her23:39
LjLShock, in a sense23:39
LjL%cases23:39
ryoumait is just a virus23:39
BrainstormLjL: In all areas, worldwide, there are 2.0 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 125602 deaths (6.3% of cases) as of 4 minutes ago. 15.7 million tests were performed (12.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data.23:39
XipI'm afraid23:39
LjLShock, but you must keep in mind that the case fatality rate can only be reported *accurately* after an epidemic ends. this is just a crude deaths/cases number23:40
ShockLjL: 23:40
XipNot afraid about this virus, but about the world, and the existence23:40
Shock * LjL: I think that's the mortality rate23:40
LjLShock, no, mortality is over the whole population23:40
XipI want us to be friends, all of us23:40
XipLike buddies23:40
XipIt's why we made IRC23:41
ShockLjL: I'm interested to see out of the closed cases how many died and how many got well23:41
LjLShock, case fatality rate can be calculated as deaths/cases, or in other words deaths/(deaths+recoveries), once an epidemic has ended23:41
LjLShock, yes, the bot does report that too23:41
LjLbut only when it "makes sense", because i've got complaints23:41
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:39 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Vicky Ward su Twitter: "According to a new study from the Harvard School of Public Health, the U.S. may have to keep social distancing measures in place until 2022 unless a vaccine becomes available. https://t.co/N3rZM41IKj" → https://is.gd/qezagc23:41
Shockwhat complaints?23:41
XipAnyway, I got to go...23:41
LjLso for a country where that calculation doesn't give a ludicrous number, like say 25%, it reports it23:41
LjLShock, i've tried to make it clear in the bot's message that "your" kind of CFR estimate is an upper boundary23:42
XipTake care guys!23:42
LjLbut people were still unhappy at seeing huge numbers23:42
LjLso if it's above 20% the bot just doesn't mention it23:42
Shockwtf23:42
LjLbye Xip23:42
Shockreality is reality23:42
LjLShock, well, it's not much of a "reality"23:42
LjLthe recovery figures are all over the place23:42
LjLeach countries reports them very differently, and usually in an extremely delayed way, on average23:42
XipIt's so strange that we even exist at all23:42
LjLso the result tends to be a very high percentage that is honestly waaaaay higher than reality... and reality is bad enough i suspect23:43
Shockwell, I'm not interested in the living dead (active cases)23:43
ShockI'm interested to see of the cases which had an outcome, what was the outcome23:43
LjLShock, well, if you want deaths/(deaths+recoveries), you cannot ignore that deaths+recoveries is often a *fraction* of the active cases, who are *still* to either die or recover, and probably in different percentage than the former23:43
sternenmusik[m]No reliable tracking of the outcome. 23:44
LjLShock, anyway, do you have a specific country in mind? there's also another bot that i believe gives that kind of CFR with looser boundaries23:44
ShockLjL: netherlands23:44
LjLlet's see then23:44
LjL%cases nl23:44
BrainstormLjL: In all areas, Netherlands, there are 27419 cases (0.2% of the population) and 2945 deaths (10.7% of cases) as of 9 minutes ago. 134972 tests were performed (20.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands for time series data.23:44
sternenmusik[m]I was extremely worried about the 21% but it cant be true. 23:44
LjLi guess not23:44
LjL!covid netherlands23:44
CoronaBotThe Netherlands: Global rank: #11, cases: 27,419 (+868), fatalities: 2,945 (+122), active cases: 24,224, total recovered: 250, in a serious condition: 1,358. Mortality: 10.74%, case fatality rate: 92.18%, cases/1M: 1600.0, deaths/1M: 172.0. Case rate: 964/24h, death rate: 86/24h. Tests: 134,972, tests/1M: 7,877.23:44
LjLyeah, look at that23:45
LjLcase fatality rate according to what you wanted is 92%23:45
LjLthis is why my bot wouldn't report that23:45
ShockLjL: thank you23:45
LjLobviously, not 92% of patients are dying. it's just recoveries aren't being reported23:45
Shockyes they are23:45
LjLclearly much worse than deaths are23:45
Shockthey've reported them in batches previously, but now I see daily increases23:45
LjLwell rest assured the true fatality of covid is not 92% in any population23:46
Shock!covid germany23:46
CoronaBotGermany: Global rank: #5, cases: 131,359 (+1,287), fatalities: 3,294 (+100), active cases: 59,865, total recovered: 68,200, in a serious condition: 4,288. Mortality: 2.51%, case fatality rate: 4.61%, cases/1M: 1568.0, deaths/1M: 39.0. Case rate: 2,218/24h, death rate: 172/24h. Tests: 1,317,887, tests/1M: 15,730.23:46
ragerrecovery is sloowwww23:46
ragerfor the most vulnerable, death is fast23:46
ShockLjL: no, probably not23:46
LjLyes that's one thing, recovery is slow, but reporting of recoveries is often even slower23:46
ShockLjL: it would be an extinction level event if it were that high23:47
LjLnow Germany has a low rate in general, but clearly they're also doing a better (or just faster?) job at reporting recoveries23:47
Shockhey, look at that CFR for germany is 4.6223:47
ragergermany in general has seem to have avoided being overwhelmed23:48
LjLif you look at the https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Netherlands graph for recoveries it does looks very... different from the other two graphs, even when you ignore the part where they weren't reporting them at all23:48
BrainstormNew from The Guardian at 21:40 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: Italy sees lowest increase in infections for a month as global cases near 2 million → https://is.gd/dXv9QM23:48
LjLShock, note that what CoronaBot calls "mortality" isn't mortality (i.e. isn't over the whole population). it's again just deaths/cases23:48
Shockyes, that is true23:48
LjLBrainstorm's headline is stupid, we tested half as much as yesterday. "Lowest increase", sure, if we don't test... but also, the deaths are more than yesterday23:49
ShockLjL: noted23:49
Shock!covid italy23:49
CoronaBotItaly: Global rank: #3, cases: 162,488 (+2,972), fatalities: 21,067 (+602), active cases: 104,291, total recovered: 37,130, in a serious condition: 3,186. Mortality: 12.97%, case fatality rate: 36.20%, cases/1M: 2687.0, deaths/1M: 348.0. Case rate: 3,153/24h, death rate: 566/24h. Tests: 1,073,689, tests/1M: 17,758.23:49
Shockhow is Italy doing on reporting recoveries?23:50
LjLprobably the last of their concern... i will say they are being reported, and they kind of make a point of mentioning recoveries in the daily press conferences23:51
sternenmusik[m]Elderly people with basic diseases, as long as they have pneumonia, were clinically a high-risk factor regardless of whether it is a coronavirus or not, and the case fatality rate was also very high, so it is not that the case fatality rate of pneumonia is high because of the infection with the new Coronavirus. 23:51
LjL(to the point that "new cases" are usually reported as new cases - (deaths + recoveries) which is just annoying/offensive)23:51
Shockso the 30% CFR is within the realm of possibility?23:51
LjLShock, but i'd say italy's recovery chart looks at least plausaible https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy - as in they are still delayed, but the graph looks barely more jittery than the cases and deaths graphs23:52
LjLShock, hell i sure hope not. hospitalizations and ICU admissions are going down now, and i hope even the 13% deaths/cases number is an overestimate23:52
LjLwhich it can be for at least two reasons23:52
LjL1) cases are going down, but deaths will only go down in a delayed fashion, so in the meanwhile, that percentage goes up23:53
sternenmusik[m]30% cfr would lead to anarchy in less then 4 weeks. 23:53
LjL2) we're way too busy testing almost-certainly-positive cases to go around testing people who only have a fever (or, really, in many case, much more than that), so hopefully there are many recoveries that are never counted as cases23:53
\n3p\Taiwan: Robot Fans Cheer at World’s First Baseball Game Since Pandemic  https://focustaiwan.tw/sports/20200412001123:53
ryouma14:51 <LjL> (to the point that "new cases" are usually reported as new cases - (deaths + recoveries) which is just annoying/offensive)23:54
ryoumaredefinition of new23:54
Shockbut those cases would not be reported as deaths also, correct?23:54
Shockdo you test all the dead for sars-cov-2?23:54
ShockI assume not23:54
Shockit would be wasteful23:54
LjLShock, we *know* for a fact that in general, the time to recover from this disease, if you do recover, is much longer than the time it takes to die, which in italy was quoted as a scarily short amount of days in one of the press conferences (5 or so, but i would have to check). so while 30% is an upper boundary, i wouldn't say it's in the realm of actual possibilities. we know that even if we do a good job tracking recoveries, they lag behind.23:54
sternenmusik[m]Did I tell you that I know recovered people in o Wer rson who returned sick from China and have not been tested? 23:55
LjLShock, yes, there are definitely also cases that end up in deaths and are never reported as COVID at all, and we can see that when we look at overall mortality in northern Italy compared to mortality in other years23:55
ShockI've read that it takes on average 17.4 days to die from first symptoms23:55
LjLShock, and there are reports of whole nursing homes where no one's getting tested, yet many are dying23:55
LjLShock, however, it is natural to presume that there is a bias towards testing more serious cases compared to milder cases, from which it follows that milder cases, which are more likely to recover, are less likely to end up in the statistics23:56
rageritaly's underwater, so the response is going to be chaotic with an imperfect understanding of circumstances23:56
sternenmusik[m]The numbers reported are not matching this kind of virus. 23:56
rager"this kind of virus"23:56
ragerwhat does that even mean?23:56
LjLShock, that may be true for the "general patient", but in Italy that was much shorter presumably due to seeing people in hospitals which were in terrible conditions, as the ones in less-than-terrible conditions were simply not being admitted23:56
ShockLjL: well the numbers should start converging in a couple of months, I would think23:57
LjL%tr Chi vivrà vedrà.23:57
BrainstormLjL, Italian to English: Time will tell. (MyMemory, Google) — #Who will live will see. (Apertium)23:57
LjLuhm23:57
LjLthat doesn't exactly capture the italian expression here23:57
LjLbut i guess Apertium's otherwise terrible translation does23:58
ShockI understand it23:58
ragerit's a virus that causes pneumonia requiring extended hospital stays on ventilator support. nothing like this has really shown up with this level of infectiousness23:59
sternenmusik[m]<rager ""this kind of virus""> yes its a virus, like ten thousands of other viruses 23:59
LjLryouma, and yeah, seriously, i was mad when i first realized they were doing that. it does have a *bit* of significance in that it's an indicator of how much more crowded hospitals are going to get... but i think it's quite offensive to the dead's relatives, at least, to have them "subtracted" from new cases. that was the part that i thought was too much even for some PR number trickery.23:59
rageryou can draw circles around words, but that doesn't make them meaningful, sternenmusik 23:59

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