| davros | bicycles are still best :) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | davros, especially now that there's much less risk of cars killing you | 00:00 |
| davros | the mistake was ending up with people living far enough from work to need more than that | 00:00 |
| davros | the few people on the roads sometimes drive a lot faster though | 00:01 |
| LjL | true, i've noticed that | 00:02 |
| LjL | and if you cycle on the sidewalk... well, there's a LOT more police seeing you :P | 00:02 |
| LjL | not sure if they'll care, maybe they'll be sensible | 00:02 |
| LjL | but... they're police, so... | 00:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:59 UTC: (news): How Germany plans to gradually reopen its economy after a weekslong coronavirus shutdown → https://is.gd/BSDKE8 | 00:03 |
| ecov | Michigan banned people from going to their vacation homes | 00:03 |
| ecov | I think theyre trying to make people lose it | 00:03 |
| LjL | we're definitely banned from going to our vacation home and more police was employed at "strategic" point on motorways where people were likely to go to mountains and sea for Easter | 00:04 |
| davros | peopel might abuse that, i.e. shuttling back and forth, and rotate household group members | 00:04 |
| LjL | even if they don't, you just don't want people to be mobile in an epidemic | 00:05 |
| LjL | if there's a cluster you don't want the cluster to create more clusters *elsewhere* | 00:05 |
| davros | but our great leader, our prime minister has set a good example for everyone by using his! | 00:05 |
| LjL | they aren't trying to make people "lose it", they're trying to keep most of them alive | 00:05 |
| LjL | davros, well, then there are such examples of idiocy | 00:05 |
| LjL | but other than that... | 00:05 |
| ryouma | 15:05 <davros> but our great leader, our prime minister has set a good example for everyone by using his! | 00:05 |
| ryouma | misclick | 00:05 |
| davros | one of my ideas was that we should have been doing practice for fuel shortages | 00:07 |
| davros | eg long before coronavirus appeared | 00:07 |
| davros | which would have been a bit like lockdown, i.e some regular period of time during which "no one is allwoed to use petrol cars (except for essentials/emergencies)" | 00:08 |
| ryouma | LjL: i think us lack of public transportation compared to e.g. italy could be due to a lot of reasons, dunno what they all are | 00:08 |
| davros | admitedly this situation highlights a fear with public transport - being around other people | 00:08 |
| davros | but like i say the real issue is that we've allowed ourselves to depend on long regular journeys | 00:09 |
| davros | what we need to move toward is everyone either working from home or being in cycling distance of their workplace and the things they need 95% of the time | 00:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:04 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: Rudd slams Trump's 'lunatic' WHO decision as national cabinet to meet – latest updates → https://is.gd/zYip9Y | 00:10 |
| oriba | a virus attack? we could not know it.... hmhhh, book from 1994: https://www.lauriegarrett.com/the-coming-plague | 00:21 |
| davros | think of all those "top 10 ways the world might end" compilations, pandemic is usually quite high | 00:27 |
| bin_bash | https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3916690 | 00:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:25 UTC: Watch live: Coronavirus task force holds briefing as government considers additional relief: Members of the coronavirus task force are expected to hold a press briefing Wednesday amid signs that the curve is flattening in some hard-hit areas. → https://is.gd/IEtLGv | 00:31 |
| ryouma | well even hollywood warned us i guess. but did every country stockpile ppe? no... | 00:31 |
| iz | scientists and health officials have been warning about this for years prior... but the world just cried chicken little, just like in those hollywood disaster movies | 00:40 |
| Andrei[m]1 | %cases Israel | 00:42 |
| Brainstorm | Andrei[m]1: In all areas, Israel, there are 12351 cases (0.1% of the population) and 128 deaths (1.0% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 187250 tests were performed (6.6% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.3% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 5.0% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Israel for time series data. | 00:42 |
| Andrei[m]1 | Better than it could be honestly, that's nice | 00:42 |
| Andrei[m]1 | <Brainstorm "Andrei: In all areas, Israel, th"> You can for your display name | 00:42 |
| Andrei[m]1 | > I can't even use uppercase characters for my username. | 00:43 |
| Andrei[m]1 | You can for your display name | 00:43 |
| Andrei[m]1 | Strange | 00:43 |
| Andrei[m]1 | Here you're visible on matrix | 00:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:38 UTC: Drinking alcohol can make the coronavirus worse, the WHO says in recommending restricting access: As millions stay home to curb the spread of Covid-19, U.N. chief Antonio Guterres warned that the world is witnessing a "horrifying global surge in domestic violence." → https://is.gd/r98s9A | 00:45 |
| LjL-Matrix | birosso: what nickname have you set for yourself on the IRC bridge | 00:49 |
| LjL-Matrix | I'll make a bet it's "Birosso" | 00:49 |
| LjL-Matrix | instead of being, like, Birosso[m] | 00:50 |
| LjL-Matrix | if you had expected it then why did you sound like you were baffled at it happening! | 00:51 |
| LjL-Matrix | Well that seems unusual enough to me | 00:52 |
| LjL-Matrix | no | 00:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:48 UTC: Trump says US has 'passed the peak' of coronavirus outbreak: "The battle continues, but the data suggests that nationwide we have passed the peak on new cases," President Donald Trump said. → https://is.gd/oAQEnc | 00:52 |
| LjL-Matrix | it just has to be different from the nickname you're already taking up on freenode | 00:52 |
| LjL-Matrix | Barosso: I was not talking about your Matrix screen name. you just changed your Matrix screenname | 00:52 |
| LjL-Matrix | i was stalking about the nickname you can customize on IRC by talking to the bridge | 00:53 |
| LjL-Matrix | if you have not talked to the bridge then it should indeed be Birosso[m] by default or similar | 00:53 |
| ecov | Number 1, to the bridge | 00:53 |
| LjL-Matrix | Barosso: just try leaving the room and rejoining it | 00:53 |
| LjL-Matrix | yes | 00:54 |
| LjL-Matrix | aw he didn't give me enough time to help me leave | 00:54 |
| LjL-Matrix | but no | 00:54 |
| LjL-Matrix | funny | 00:55 |
| oriba | restricting access to alcohol will yield to violence | 00:58 |
| oriba | WHO = stupid | 00:58 |
| ynhof[m] | Organised violence or individual cases | 00:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:48 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: Rudd slams Trump's 'lunatic' WHO decision as national cabinet to meet – latest updates → https://is.gd/zYip9Y | 00:59 |
| oriba | maybe they want the alcohol for desinfectant? | 00:59 |
| ecov | "lunatic" lol | 00:59 |
| oriba | no beer, no peace. | 00:59 |
| ynhof[m] | Idk if you are describing organised bootleg, that is why I ask | 00:59 |
| Birosso | "You can talk in IRC rooms using any Matrix client and you'll stay connected even if you close Riot." | 01:00 |
| Birosso | Okay... | 01:00 |
| Birosso | This makes lurkers even more scary. | 01:00 |
| oriba | maybe thats why not only toilet paper but also some beer brands was bought out (not all, but some brands) yesterday? | 01:01 |
| bin_bash | ♫ matrix is a cancer ♫ | 01:01 |
| Birosso | The way it quotes text surely is. | 01:01 |
| ynhof[m] | Yep.ban toilet paper too. Ya got me | 01:02 |
| nb | wow | 01:02 |
| nb | president trump says if senate doesn't approve his nominees, he will just adjourn congress and then make recess appointments | 01:03 |
| nb | smh | 01:03 |
| LjL | https://www.humblebundle.com/software/work-remote-software is a bit weird because too much of it is games, and there's really not the things one would expect for remote working... but i guess it's relevant, so i'm posting it | 01:03 |
| LjL | %title | 01:03 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.humblebundle.com: Humble Software Bundle: Work Remote (pay what you want and help charity) | 01:03 |
| nb | LjL, interesting. I'll have to take a look | 01:03 |
| nb | I like humblebundle | 01:03 |
| LjL | i also found it confusing because it says you "also" get ... if you pay $1. but that's the basic package, you don't "also" get it. | 01:04 |
| Birosso | I think it's just a stock header. | 01:05 |
| Birosso | Below that it says | 01:05 |
| Birosso | "PAY MORE THAN THE AVERAGE OF €11.03 TO ALSO UNLOCK!" | 01:06 |
| Birosso | Oh god, the caps. | 01:06 |
| LjL | Birosso, yes, it's a confusing stock header | 01:06 |
| Timvde | LjL: Which one of those would actually help me with remote work? | 01:06 |
| LjL | maybe a human could have reviewed it! | 01:06 |
| LjL | Timvde, nyeah, that's the thing that's a bit odd... | 01:07 |
| Timvde | I mean, it's not even that there's odd things in the list | 01:07 |
| Timvde | Literally nothing will help me | 01:07 |
| LjL | okay don't get mad at me, i literally said "and there's really not the things one would expect for remote working" | 01:07 |
| Birosso | Display Fusion is very nice if you have multiple monitors. | 01:07 |
| Timvde | I'm not mad at you :P | 01:07 |
| Birosso | Yes you are. | 01:07 |
| Timvde | I'm just baffled by the list | 01:07 |
| Birosso | You are being very passive-aggressive right now. | 01:08 |
| LjL | Timvde, be careful, Birosso is an op | 01:08 |
| Birosso | The aggression is palpable. | 01:08 |
| Birosso | MORE! | 01:08 |
| LjL | that's all i have | 01:08 |
| LjL | well... | 01:08 |
| Birosso | I spend an inordinate amount of time on the internet and this semblance of power over people I don't even know is all I have in life! | 01:09 |
| Birosso | COWER! | 01:09 |
| LjL | you are mocking me. that's wholly inappropriate | 01:09 |
| Birosso | I'm mocking all mods. | 01:09 |
| LjL | wholly. | 01:09 |
| Birosso | Hubris. | 01:09 |
| Birosso | I lost it all. | 01:09 |
| Birosso | All is gone. | 01:09 |
| Timvde | LjL: And slightly surprised that you post a list of proprietary software that's mostly Windows only | 01:09 |
| LjL | Timvde, see? Birosso was right! | 01:10 |
| Birosso | He's still going! | 01:10 |
| Birosso | He's never going to forget this. | 01:10 |
| Birosso | I bet he already has this entered into a list somewhere. | 01:10 |
| LjL | Timvde, realistically, from what i hear from people, few use remote working software that's open anyway | 01:11 |
| Timvde | I just use openvpn | 01:11 |
| LjL | i mean, kids here *have* now to use Zoom or whatever it is for school | 01:11 |
| LjL | by law | 01:11 |
| Timvde | Oh yea, we do use Google Meet :( | 01:11 |
| Timvde | Although in one-on-one meetings I sometimes try to push Jitse O:) | 01:11 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, for video conference the popular ones are not open, at all | 01:11 |
| Timvde | Jitsi* | 01:12 |
| LjL | Birosso, i hope you are at least insulting me from your "invisible" Matrix account | 01:12 |
| mefistofeles | yes, Jitsi is a good candidate, but you really need your own instance/server of it for it to work smoothly | 01:12 |
| mefistofeles | we have used it in my research group, but sometimes it is a pain, sadly :( | 01:12 |
| Birosso | One, this wasn't directed at you, even if you think it applies. Two, I've already uninstalled Riot. | 01:12 |
| Timvde | Jitsi made me discover that my laptop cpu is very much throttled when on battery | 01:12 |
| mefistofeles | and since we all got free premium/pro zoom accounts, now we use that | 01:13 |
| LjL | Birosso, one. chill. two. chill. three, actually rage moar | 01:13 |
| Birosso | ?!?!?!?!?!!?! | 01:13 |
| LjL | ! | 01:13 |
| Birosso | Yoüve gone mad! | 01:13 |
| Timvde | mefistofeles: I literally declined video chat with some friends because they wanted to use Zoom... | 01:13 |
| LjL | "gone" | 01:13 |
| mefistofeles | 5, all of you chill | 01:13 |
| Timvde | Next time we used Jitsi :D | 01:13 |
| LjL | Birosso, i can see you're angry when you mis-umlaut | 01:13 |
| Timvde | (and that's when I discovered the throttling issue) | 01:13 |
| LjL | Birosso, i'll call you Miss Umlaut | 01:14 |
| Birosso | No. I "mis-umlaut" when my Umlaut script is on. | 01:14 |
| Birosso | Which it is, because I was composing some emails. | 01:14 |
| LjL | Birosso, Öh | 01:14 |
| Timvde | You have an "umlaut script"? | 01:14 |
| Birosso | Call me Miss Nomer instead. | 01:14 |
| Birosso | I've always wanted to be Miss Nomer. | 01:14 |
| Birosso | Yes. | 01:14 |
| Timvde | What does it do? | 01:14 |
| Birosso | So I don't have to switch layouts. | 01:14 |
| Birosso | It changes... | 01:14 |
| mefistofeles | Timvde: yes, I can see that happening, I did that, and we tried Jitsi and failed miserably, sadly :( so we had to go back to zoom | 01:14 |
| Birosso | Hold on. | 01:14 |
| LjL | Birosso, Geliebte Damen und Herren, ich bin Birosso und es tut mir Leid, dass ich nicht an der Tastatur schreiben kann. | 01:15 |
| Timvde | Then use the layout that can actually do umlauts by default? :P | 01:15 |
| Birosso | It changes o', e', u', and a' (uppercases as well) to o, e, u, and a with Umlaut. | 01:15 |
| mefistofeles | but Jitsi is still impressive, again, the main issue is the servers, of course they cannot keep a large CDN network or something as others | 01:15 |
| Birosso | Timvde: TOO MUCH CHANGE! | 01:15 |
| Timvde | That's what I do. Some peopple for whatever reason here use US qwerty | 01:15 |
| LjL | Birosso, why would you need ë | 01:15 |
| Birosso | THE Z IS Y AND THE Y IZ Z! | 01:15 |
| Birosso | MADNESS! | 01:15 |
| Birosso | I don't need an e Umlaut. | 01:15 |
| Timvde | But we have a language in which accents are not uncommon | 01:15 |
| Birosso | I included it by mistake. | 01:16 |
| LjL | Birosso, not nearly as mad as the french layout | 01:16 |
| Birosso | I use Dvorak English. | 01:16 |
| LjL | Timvde, they're not uncommon in Italian either, and here i am, with the Swedish layout as default, and the Italian not even installed | 01:16 |
| Timvde | LjL: ë is one of the more common umlauted letters in Dutch | 01:16 |
| Birosso | German Dvorak is just too different. | 01:16 |
| LjL | partly because with *this* layout, i can type the very italian word È. with the italian one, i can't (well, i've been told there's a trick but i'd have never thought it up myself) | 01:16 |
| Birosso | Using this scripit impacts my typing speed and my comfort much less. | 01:16 |
| LjL | Timvde, i don't think Birosso writes much Dutch | 01:16 |
| Timvde | Actually, the most common one by far | 01:17 |
| Birosso | I don't speak or type Dutch. | 01:17 |
| mefistofeles | I use butterflies, fwiw | 01:17 |
| Birosso | I do understand 70% to 80% of it, though. | 01:17 |
| Timvde | È? | 01:17 |
| Timvde | I can type it easily | 01:17 |
| Timvde | Pretty much all accented letters | 01:17 |
| LjL | Timvde, so can i. on the swedish layout. | 01:17 |
| LjL | not on the italian one. | 01:17 |
| Timvde | I kinda like this layout :) | 01:17 |
| mefistofeles | È | 01:17 |
| mefistofeles | À | 01:18 |
| mefistofeles | just to proof I wasn't copy/pasting xD | 01:18 |
| mefistofeles | proove* | 01:18 |
| Timvde | It has dead keys for umlaut (apart from ", which is another key) and accents | 01:18 |
| Timvde | mefistofeles: prove* | 01:18 |
| Birosso | Oh, my script also changes s' to ß. | 01:18 |
| Birosso | I really like it. | 01:18 |
| mefistofeles | Timvde: so close :( | 01:18 |
| mefistofeles | I always mess that one up | 01:18 |
| Birosso | It's worth noting that on Dvorak the ' is rather easy to reach. | 01:18 |
| Timvde | ß <-- right on my keyboard | 01:18 |
| mefistofeles | ß | 01:19 |
| Birosso | But it's a different layout! | 01:19 |
| mefistofeles | Timvde: which layout is that? btw | 01:19 |
| Birosso | You would have to get used to multiple layouts! | 01:19 |
| Birosso | WHY? | 01:19 |
| LjL | Timvde, i have dead keys for everything here too. the italian layout, on the other hand, has none, while it has the italian accented letters à è é ì ò ù as separate keys... except è and é are on the same key, except one is shifted. which implies, of course, that you can't type the uppercase version by shifting. | 01:19 |
| LjL | (but i was told you can by enabling caps lock first! having never really used caps lock, that blew my mind) | 01:19 |
| Timvde | LjL: capslock? | 01:19 |
| Birosso | J U S T S C R I P T. | 01:19 |
| mefistofeles | I insist, butterflies | 01:19 |
| Birosso | My CapsLock inserts a question mark. | 01:19 |
| Birosso | Very convenient. | 01:20 |
| LjL | Timvde, well, okay, you're smarter than me fine, but still, i'd find it very silly to capslock È when it's just an individual word at the start of a sentence most of the time | 01:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:10 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live updates: Rudd slams Trump's 'lunatic' WHO decision as national cabinet to meet – latest news → https://is.gd/zYip9Y | 01:20 |
| Timvde | Sure, totally agree | 01:20 |
| Timvde | I really like my dead keys | 01:20 |
| Timvde | And they allow me to type ḿ too | 01:20 |
| Timvde | Not that I ever use it | 01:20 |
| LjL | the italian layout needs an epidemic | 01:20 |
| Timvde | BUT I CAN | 01:20 |
| LjL | then it will have more... okay too soon | 01:20 |
| Birosso | I AM ALWAYS HOLDING SHIFT WHEN I SCREAM. I HOPE YOU CAN APPRECIATE THE EFFORT INVOLVED! | 01:21 |
| mefistofeles | never too soon, coronials will appreciate it | 01:21 |
| LjL | Birosso, now your output is more consistent with the one from Matrix | 01:21 |
| mefistofeles | wut | 01:21 |
| LjL | Birosso, lol you literally renamed yourself to Birosso[m] *on* matrix before giving up | 01:22 |
| mefistofeles | btw, what the f... are you trying to do? | 01:23 |
| mefistofeles | all of you | 01:23 |
| Timvde | Mostly delaying going to bed | 01:23 |
| Timvde | I definitely should | 01:24 |
| mefistofeles | I should also | 01:24 |
| mefistofeles | but "writing" thesis :/ | 01:24 |
| Birosso | I am delaying practice. | 01:24 |
| Birosso | I am writing an email to start writing a thesis. | 01:24 |
| Birosso | FUN TIMES! | 01:24 |
| Birosso | Wait | 01:24 |
| Birosso | What? | 01:24 |
| Birosso | Who is is? | 01:24 |
| mefistofeles | while roomies are playing resident evil 3 in inferno mode | 01:24 |
| Birosso | Who is doing this? | 01:24 |
| LjL | birosso[m], you somehow actually joined! | 01:25 |
| Birosso | I uninstalled Riot. | 01:25 |
| Birosso | birossomat isn't me. | 01:25 |
| LjL | Birosso, well, clearly Riot didn't uninstall you | 01:25 |
| Birosso | No, no. | 01:25 |
| LjL | it most certainly is you | 01:25 |
| Birosso | This is an impostor. | 01:25 |
| Birosso | No, no. | 01:25 |
| mefistofeles | Riot != Matrix | 01:25 |
| LjL | Birosso, your account doesn't delete itself just because you uninstall Riot | 01:25 |
| Birosso | BUT | 01:25 |
| Birosso | HOW CAN IT JOIN BY ITSELF?! | 01:25 |
| LjL | because the bridge does strange things | 01:26 |
| Birosso | I understand the account is still there. | 01:26 |
| Birosso | But why is it joining by itself? | 01:26 |
| LjL | well why was it not being visible before? | 01:26 |
| LjL | there is clearly more than one unanswered question | 01:26 |
| Birosso | Who knows? | 01:26 |
| Birosso | It hates me! | 01:26 |
| mefistofeles | the bridge acts in mysterious ways | 01:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica at 23:23 UTC: Science: WHO stays focused on fighting COVID-19 as experts slam Trump’s attack → https://is.gd/s9IebA | 01:27 |
| Birosso | "Slam" | 01:27 |
| LjL | so Guardian isn't the only one doing the silly "as" thing | 01:27 |
| mefistofeles | slam dunk | 01:27 |
| Birosso | Imagine calling yourself a news outlet and using "slam" like that. | 01:27 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: apparently | 01:27 |
| mefistofeles | hate it | 01:27 |
| mefistofeles | great convo, thanks | 01:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:25 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as cases worldwide top 2 million: US reports 25,000 new infections; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 01:34 |
| adventurer | How many days did it take to go from 1 million to 2 million | 01:44 |
| adventurer | just 14 days | 01:44 |
| Albright | On the treatment of black people in China post-virus: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9DYm4g--RM | 02:01 |
| oriba | https://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/panorama/kriminalitaet/id_87702226/coronavirus-in-freiburg-mann-spuckt-auf-lebensmittel-in-supermarkt.html | 02:02 |
| oriba | https://www.rnd.de/panorama/mann-leckt-waren-im-supermarkt-an-polizei-ermittelt-wegen-video-D6OKBFK7ARARFDBWCEWN36B4CQ.html | 02:02 |
| Albright | Forgive this guy mispronouncing literally every Chinese name and place name | 02:02 |
| oriba | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQrGPCwQPQ4 | 02:02 |
| Birosso | No, I won't forgive him. | 02:02 |
| Birosso | Not in this day and age. | 02:02 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Wilmington Hospital nurse walks off job after being forbidden from wearing N95 mask to treat COVID-19 patients (10265 votes) | https://redd.it/g1wzuk | 02:04 |
| Toadisattva | how on earth you gonna tell a medical worker they can't wear protective equiptment, this is happening way too often | 02:07 |
| Toadisattva | they should make hospital administrative staff go treat patients without ppe | 02:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 23:53 UTC: worldnews: Black people in China ‘banned from McDonalds and evicted from their homes’ over coronavirus fears → https://is.gd/Pj0rTh | 02:09 |
| JyrkiK | at least they aren't blaming the mexicans or venzuelans yet | 02:12 |
| mefistofeles | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0869-5 | 02:15 |
| mefistofeles | so apparently covid is more infectious before developing symptoms | 02:15 |
| mefistofeles | recommended read | 02:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:10 UTC: Trump says US has 'passed the peak' of coronavirus outbreak: "The battle continues, but the data suggests that nationwide we have passed the peak on new cases," President Donald Trump said. → https://is.gd/oAQEnc | 02:16 |
| mefistofeles | which explains why this spread so silently and efficiently | 02:17 |
| JyrkiK | hardly a surprise | 02:17 |
| mefistofeles | indeed | 02:17 |
| mefistofeles | but now we have quantification | 02:17 |
| davros | stealth clusterfuck | 02:17 |
| JyrkiK | well maybe You do | 02:17 |
| JyrkiK | i'm not young enough to use 'we' | 02:17 |
| mefistofeles | I don't understand xD | 02:18 |
| Zalyssa | xD is just an emoticon | 02:18 |
| adventurer | https://9now.nine.com.au/today/coronavirus-first-human-trial-for-vaccine-to-begin-in-australia/3b9d3cac-697d-4ccc-b824-cd6af72bde8c | 02:18 |
| adventurer | i want to volunteer for the human trials | 02:18 |
| adventurer | but I can't work out how | 02:19 |
| JyrkiK | thank you for using the IRC mefistofeles , we have a short survey after you disconnect ...... | 02:19 |
| mefistofeles | :/ | 02:19 |
| JyrkiK | mefistofeles: in a few words how can we (the AI) help you today? | 02:20 |
| mefistofeles | JyrkiK: apparently not at all | 02:20 |
| adventurer | just kidding | 02:20 |
| JyrkiK | mefistofeles: sorry I didn't understand your request let's try another way | 02:20 |
| adventurer | it does drive me insane though | 02:20 |
| mefistofeles | haha | 02:20 |
| JyrkiK | mefistofeles: don't forget were all in this (covid nightmare) together | 02:21 |
| mefistofeles | JyrkiK: Xip? | 02:22 |
| mefistofeles | xD | 02:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:13 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live updates: Rudd slams Trump's 'lunatic' WHO decision as national cabinet to meet – latest news → https://is.gd/zYip9Y | 02:23 |
| adventurer | the trials of the vaccine i mean | 02:27 |
| adventurer | human trials for the vaccine | 02:27 |
| pwr22 | Birosso you'll need to leave the matrix from for your account there to leave IRC via the bridge | 02:29 |
| LjL | i assume he'll pointedly avoid doing that | 02:30 |
| LjL | or that he won't, just to prove my assumption wrong | 02:30 |
| mefistofeles | isn't that the point of users, try to prove admins wrong? | 02:30 |
| pwr22 | Ah, I've missed the context for why they're on matrix or trying to prove anyone wrong | 02:31 |
| mefistofeles | pwr22: same here, tbh, I'm not even sure if it's a joke | 02:32 |
| mefistofeles | or some kind of game | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >><mefistofeles> but now we have quantification<< well, I quoted Drosten on this several days ago already. For the ones who asked, seems this (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0869-5) is the study he referred to | 02:39 |
| mefistofeles | DocScrutinizer05: ok, maybe the preprint? Because that was published today | 02:49 |
| mefistofeles | you have to be careful with preprints, many have been retracted by authors, already | 02:50 |
| mefistofeles | even after they make the news :/ | 02:50 |
| mefistofeles | *make it to the news | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I said several times it was from medrxive or biorxive | 02:50 |
| mefistofeles | ok | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so preprint | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and it's not me dealing with the preprints but Mr Drosten who does evaluate preprints for making a living | 02:51 |
| mefistofeles | no idea who he is, but sure | 02:52 |
| Toadisattva | even once peer reviewed you gotta engage your critical thinking skills and analyze and interpret the data for yourself | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unless he does research on corona viruses | 02:52 |
| Toadisattva | do the conclusions fit the evidence? | 02:52 |
| Toadisattva | is the evidence even any good? | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | he's prolly one of the top 5 virologists in this crisis, worldwide | 02:53 |
| mefistofeles | ah nice | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | corona specialist since SARS or before | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Charite´ | 02:54 |
| ryouma | Toadisattva: is right | 02:55 |
| mefistofeles | wow, he has a paper with almost 300 cites from this year | 02:55 |
| ryouma | if only the crisis would speed up and transparentize and reduce bias in and remove fraud from academic publishing as a whole | 02:56 |
| adventurer | https://twitter.com/RBReich/status/1249069139974443009?s=20 | 02:56 |
| mefistofeles | DocScrutinizer05: https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2001468 this may have been the study, though, it's from Drosten | 02:57 |
| mefistofeles | though that's just "correspondence" | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the study was from HK | 02:58 |
| mefistofeles | but yeah, that was rising alarm already more than a month ago | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc | 02:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 00:54 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: 'Profound' mental health impact prompts calls for urgent research → https://is.gd/SRs226 | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Drosten | 03:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:58 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as cases worldwide top 2 million: US reports 25,000 new infections; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 03:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:10 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports record 447 new cases, global infections top 2 million → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 03:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:11 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live updates: Rudd slams Trump's 'lunatic' WHO decision as national cabinet to meet – latest news → https://is.gd/zYip9Y | 03:19 |
| JyrkiK | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEndhXKHiPo | 03:20 |
| mefistofeles | %t | 03:20 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles: From www.youtube.com: GWT: Latest comments by information minister - YouTube | 03:20 |
| LjL | makes me feel like my english is great | 03:23 |
| JyrkiK | 'the far left' lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlY6ek2FuDI | 03:24 |
| mefistofeles | wait, is that english? | 03:24 |
| LjL | good point | 03:25 |
| mefistofeles | haha | 03:26 |
| mefistofeles | gtg get some sleep, ttyl | 03:26 |
| mefistofeles | that should've been gtggsl, ttyl | 03:26 |
| mefistofeles | actually ss | 03:27 |
| mefistofeles | f*ck, I really need to sleep | 03:27 |
| LjL | O.o | 03:30 |
| LjL | nn | 03:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:30 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as cases worldwide top 2 million: US reports 25,000 new infections; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 03:40 |
| linext | how long until 3 million? | 03:43 |
| linext | from 1 million to 2 million took about a week | 03:44 |
| MetaNova | less than a week | 03:44 |
| linext | Where I live, about 1 in every 100 people has the COVID | 03:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews at 01:31 UTC: worldnews: Trump says US investigating whether virus came from Wuhan lab → https://is.gd/UsoZy4 | 03:48 |
| JyrkiK | linext: might need a numerator of tests given / positive x or some actual real statistics | 03:48 |
| linext | 77 from town out of about 10,000 | 03:48 |
| linext | tested positive | 03:48 |
| JyrkiK | if they tested all 10,000 and got the results within 1 day might mean something | 03:48 |
| linext | it's New Jersey which has the second highest in USA | 03:49 |
| linext | Many people commute from NJ to New York City | 03:49 |
| linext | Social distancing is getting strick | 03:49 |
| linext | All employees and customers are required to wear face masks | 03:50 |
| JyrkiK | bit late for that what with 10,000 dead | 03:50 |
| linext | I've been wearing my respirator | 03:50 |
| linext | It has N95 prefilters and I doubt anything will get through the activated charcoal | 03:50 |
| linext | Costco has a line of about 100 people spaced 6 feet apart from each other | 03:51 |
| linext | At first I was wondering why they sectioned off part of the parking lot at super markets | 03:52 |
| linext | The reason is that the line can get huge | 03:52 |
| JyrkiK | might be toliet paper day, line always longer | 03:52 |
| davros | 1 week from 1m->2m ... 1 week from 2m to 4m ? unless the distancing is slowing it now | 03:52 |
| davros | +1 week: 2m +2 weeks 4m +3 weeks 8m +4 weeks 16m .. | 03:53 |
| davros | +8weeks 256m | 03:54 |
| davros | +12weeks 4.096billion | 03:54 |
| davros | thats what'll happen if they relax distancing | 03:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:45 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live updates: Rudd slams Trump's 'lunatic' WHO decision as national cabinet meets – latest news → https://is.gd/zYip9Y | 03:55 |
| linext | I don't think it's going to double every week like grains of rice on a chess board | 03:55 |
| davros | right it turns into a logistic function instead of staying exponential.. but at what point, who knows | 03:55 |
| davros | russia's just getting going | 03:55 |
| davros | its yet to sweep through africa i think | 03:56 |
| davros | some countries are getting hints of a second wave, | 03:56 |
| davros | and countries with lockdowns are talking about relaxing it now | 03:56 |
| davros | could get scary.. | 03:57 |
| linext | Time to move to Alaska | 04:00 |
| linext | They get $8,000 a year from the sale of oil on public property | 04:00 |
| linext | Alaska has only 293 cases | 04:03 |
| jester | second wave coming soon | 04:05 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((turns into a logistic function)) well, I guess at the moment that the spread speed hits natural physical "bandwidth limits", or when reducing R_0 from amount / percentage of immune individuals in population aka hed immunity kicking in | 04:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | let me put it this way: when northern hemisphere was all infected and infectious, it's still unlikely a week later whole southern hemisphere would get infected too: natural bandwidth limit | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | 1 town; 2 towns, 4 towns, 8 towns doesn't work that way either | 04:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:21 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports record 447 new cases, global infections top 2 million → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just occurs to me: when it needs 60% for herd immunity, shouldn't R_0 and speed of propagation slow down again at reaching 30%? | 04:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and mostly linear from 30%-X to 30%+X | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>countries with lockdowns are talking about relaxing it now<< Germany did today, Austria some days ago already. They both hope to keep R_0<=1 though. It's a tad silly since a few weeks longer and they could reach number of new infections per day in a range where you can track infection chains one by one again | 04:36 |
| tinwhiskers | DocScrutinizer05: New Zealand is going for eradication | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right new we here in D are on a good way: https://i.imgur.com/S7hPCI2.png - I really really hope that graph won't stall or even reverse direction again with the lockdown relaxation | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tinwhiskers: smarter move | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or did you mean eradication of population? ;-D | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | right now my own little fancy statistics ^^^ suggest we would need a max 4 weeks longer here in D to do same | 04:40 |
| tinwhiskers | Lol. We've had a pretty good history of eradicating pests and diseases with our tough border security and tracking but frankly I'm not confident of this one. Maybe. | 04:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 02:35 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as cases worldwide top 2 million: IMF says Asia to have zero economic growth; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ((relaxation)) then OTOH I'm convinced a strict distancing policy (plus masks) doesn't need any further lockdown | 04:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if *everybody* *always* would keep a 2m distance, R_0=0.2 or lower, in my book | 04:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:52 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: IMF expects Asia growth to be at its lowest in 60 years → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 04:58 |
| davros | there are still people who dont take it seriously who'd ruin it for everyone else | 04:59 |
| davros | need sentry guns in public placed with some AI to shoot anyone stepping within 2m of someone else | 05:00 |
| Guilherme | genius... | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmphh RKI/arcgis again crapping pants: https://npgeo-corona-npgeo-de.hub.arcgis.com/datasets/dd4580c810204019a7b8eb3e0b329dd6_0/data >>Last updated 2 hours ago<< https://experience.arcgis.com/experience/478220a4c454480e823b17327b2bf1d4/page/page_1/ (aka corona.rki.de) >>No Data<< | 05:00 |
| jester | snipers on the roofs | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fix the hotspots: supermarkets, subway, trains, $office | 05:02 |
| davros | bars, restaurants need to stay shut | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | people are generally willing to act reasonable, just when they can't then they can't | 05:03 |
| davros | the whole point of those is kind of "to be within 2 metres of someone else" | 05:03 |
| jester | shock collars with 2 meter range | 05:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I tend to disagree re restaurants, I'd love to sit alone with nobody in 3m radius, to get a decent meal again occasionally | 05:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the problem is rather the economy side of restaurants with one guest per Pi*2m°2 | 05:05 |
| davros | yeah i was about to say | 05:06 |
| davros | the cost of the space.. prime space tends to get packed to make it economical | 05:06 |
| davros | flipside there's an argument that closing the restaurants put more strain on supermarkets | 05:06 |
| davros | so maybe opening them with distancing will be a net win | 05:07 |
| davros | i.e it'll help keep the supermarkets sparser | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hardly | 05:07 |
| tinwhiskers | DocScrutinizer05: I went to a restaurant yesterday and we were the only ones in there. It was great. | 05:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tinwhiskers: I wish I could | 05:08 |
| tinwhiskers | Our restrictions have been eased this week | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | oooh | 05:08 |
| davros | i want vending machines for some basic items like loaves of bread or oatmeal or milk | 05:08 |
| davros | .. those could eliminate the need to enter a building | 05:08 |
| davros | or reduce it | 05:08 |
| jester | like japan | 05:08 |
| davros | yeah i hear they have them | 05:08 |
| davros | tinwhiskers, which country? | 05:09 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes, we need used panty vending machines | 05:09 |
| tinwhiskers | davros: I'm in Tonga | 05:09 |
| davros | well i was thinking loaves of bread, oatmeal, or milk vending machines , not panties | 05:09 |
| tinwhiskers | Our last five suspected cases have been cleared so we're in a small minority of countries with no cases | 05:10 |
| davros | i think if you're buying used panties coronavirus is the least of your worries | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | tinwhiskers: did you have a positive case? | 05:10 |
| tinwhiskers | Probably one more week of restrictions in case something comes out of the woodwork then we're free to go about our business | 05:11 |
| tinwhiskers | No, no positive cases in the end | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | crew of freight planes and ships may not go offboard, nobody may go on board and leave again | 05:13 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah, that's what we're doing | 05:14 |
| tinwhiskers | However there will be flights starting here soon, possibly once every ten days. I don't know what they will do about that but probably mandatory supervised quarantine | 05:15 |
| tinwhiskers | I think initially it will only be for people leaving the country though, returning on empty cargo planes, so that bridge doesn't need crossing just yet | 05:16 |
| davros | easily justifiable (mandatory quarantine for anyone entering) | 05:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:20 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live updates: riot police enter Villawood detention centre amid Covid-19 protest by detainees – latest news → https://is.gd/zYip9Y | 05:26 |
| jester | shock collars with 2 meter range | 05:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 03:31 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: IMF expects Asia growth to be at its lowest in 60 years → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 05:40 |
| jester | https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2020/apr/13/coronavirus-map-us-latest-covid-19-cases-state-by-state | 05:42 |
| sneep | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auzEpjGee-8 kind of funny | 05:42 |
| sneep | %title | 05:42 |
| Brainstorm | sneep: From www.youtube.com: Tourists forced to write 'Sorry' 500 times over India Lockdown Breach | V6 News - YouTube | 05:42 |
| jester | https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/covid-19-outbreaks-in-upper-midwest-show-virus-is-not-just-a-new-york-problem-82056261754 | 05:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:34 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as cases worldwide top 2 million: IMF says Asia to have zero economic growth; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 05:47 |
| JyrkiK | The U.S. is actually about $100 million behind in payments to The WHO https://www.politico.com/news/2020/04/15/world-health-organization-trump-funding-cuts-187615 king of the deadbeats | 06:02 |
| sneep | trump is 100% crazy | 06:03 |
| Spec | what do you do during a global pandemic? | 06:04 |
| Spec | pump up ze stock market and defund world health org ofc | 06:04 |
| jester | https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ | 06:05 |
| Streaker | who is the clown with the extra long nick messing up my display? | 06:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:09 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live updates: riot police enter Villawood detention centre amid Covid-19 protest by detainees – latest news → https://is.gd/zYip9Y | 06:15 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Currently No Transparency for Trillions of US Taxpayer Dollars Going to Corporate Bailouts (10311 votes) | https://redd.it/g24owk | 06:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:24 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: Scott Morrison provides update on national cabinet meeting – latest news → https://is.gd/zYip9Y | 06:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:35 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as IMF issues Asia warning: Cases pass 2 million; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 06:51 |
| Streake_ | 700! | 06:53 |
| derpadmin | the world is not doing so great at the moment... I mean, it was'nt doing so great before... but now it is definitely worst | 06:57 |
| rajrajraj | Seems like every nation has had its peak | 07:10 |
| rajrajraj | May be in a month we shall be corona free | 07:11 |
| rajrajraj | Just like china | 07:11 |
| derpadmin | rajrajraj : you think so? | 07:11 |
| tinwhiskers | unfortunately no | 07:11 |
| rajrajraj | derpadmin: yes | 07:11 |
| tinwhiskers | and china's cases are on the rise again | 07:11 |
| derpadmin | United States: %infected:0.19302687 %not_infected:99.80697313 | 07:11 |
| tinwhiskers | they are certainly not free of it | 07:11 |
| rajrajraj | tinwhiskers: really? | 07:11 |
| derpadmin | there are very few cases documented when compared to the population... | 07:12 |
| derpadmin | US have less than a million reported infected | 07:12 |
| tinwhiskers | it's to be expected that a low level of infection will persist during lockdown and there will be a resurgence when the restrictions are eased. We're not going to be free of it any time soon I'm afraid | 07:12 |
| derpadmin | out of ~350 millions... | 07:12 |
| derpadmin | seems to me like that leaves the place for 700x more infection in the US | 07:13 |
| derpadmin | this is if we cannot catch it twice (or it is not as bad the second time) | 07:14 |
| tinwhiskers | derpadmin: yeah, left unchecked the virus would rapidly rise until the effects of herd immunity start taking effect but with the restrictions you can dramatically reduce that but it's really just a stalling tactic. Once the restrictions are eased the numbers start increasing again. | 07:14 |
| derpadmin | tinwhiskers : definitely yes... herd immunity is not really an option either | 07:15 |
| derpadmin | so we have to catch it... slowly | 07:15 |
| tinwhiskers | well, herd immunity will be reached one way or another. vaccines also aim to reach herd immunity. Herd immunity is not a strategy, per se. | 07:15 |
| rajrajraj | Either it should stop immediately or we should be like ww3. Just that everyone has a world inside ina war with covid | 07:15 |
| tinwhiskers | herd immunity simply means there are too few susceptible people available for the virus to persist. That level of immunity may be reached by lots of people catching the disease and recovering or by using vaccines. | 07:17 |
| rajrajraj | Ppl say vaccines r bad | 07:17 |
| tinwhiskers | peopel are stupid | 07:17 |
| derpadmin | indeed | 07:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:10 UTC: New Zealand: Jacinda Ardern signals modest loosening of New Zealand's coronavirus lockdown rules → https://is.gd/YgxiF1 | 07:19 |
| adventurer | https://twitter.com/9NewsAUS/status/1250646252913438722?s=20 | 07:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:26 UTC: Coronavirus latest: at a glance: A summary of the biggest developments in the global coronavirus outbreak → https://is.gd/669UaW | 07:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:31 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Australia PM outlines three goals to be met before easing social restrictions: Prime Minister Scott Morrison said Australia needs to expand its testing regime, improve its contact tracing ability and design a way to effectively handle more localized outbreaks. → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 07:40 |
| Urchin | %cases croatia | 07:42 |
| Brainstorm | Urchin: In all areas, Croatia, there are 1741 cases (0.0% of the population) and 33 deaths (1.9% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 19256 tests were performed (9.0% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.6% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 6.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Croatia for time series data. | 07:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:39 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as IMF issues Asia warning: Cases pass 2 million; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 07:47 |
| jester | https://smartertopics.com/lp/reusable-breathing-mask/index.html?extid=84ce40eacbf9188ea194953f20ac4a4f&cost=0.25&campid=1029343&teaser=5498232&widget=5557492&country=CA&category=140&sxid=91b6hq907c5v | 07:48 |
| ubLIX | jester: too spammy; please be more careful with your links | 08:00 |
| iz | spain's daily infection rate going back up again :/ | 08:01 |
| iz | %cases spain | 08:02 |
| Brainstorm | iz: In all areas, Spain, there are 180659 cases (0.4% of the population) and 18812 deaths (10.4% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 650755 tests were performed (27.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Spain for time series data. | 08:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:54 UTC: All Ruby Princess crew to be tested for Covid-19 within 48 hours: Exclusive: NSW Health said testing asymptomatic people could lead to false positive results for coronavirus, but will now expand testing to understand cruise ship crew’s immunity → https://is.gd/6IlRuH | 08:08 |
| sneep | Why are cruise ships still sailing | 08:09 |
| jester | meat processing workers with covid shutdown planed | 08:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:14 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as IMF issues Asia warning: Cases pass 2 million; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 08:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:25 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Germany reports more than 2,800 new cases and over 300 deaths: The number of new confirmed cases in Germany jumped by 2,866 to a total of 130,450, according to data from the Robert Koch Institute for infectious diseases. → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 08:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:31 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as IMF issues Asia warning: Cases pass 2 million; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 08:36 |
| disillusion | So who here believes this unsourced stuff from the U.S. government that this virus originated in a Chinese lab and broke out after infecting one of the workers? | 08:40 |
| disillusion | The reporting on it matches a history of other infamous lies by the United States, such as the Gulf of Tonkin incident in the 60's, WMD's in Iraq in 2003, and Russiagate from 2016-2019. It's all from "anonymous officials". | 08:41 |
| tinwhiskers | disillusion: it's unsubstantiated speculation and as such has no place here | 08:42 |
| disillusion | wow that's bold tinwhiskers | 08:42 |
| disillusion | just gave me a lot more respect for this channel | 08:43 |
| tinwhiskers | heh | 08:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:39 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Germany reports more than 2,800 new cases and over 300 deaths: The number of new confirmed cases in Germany jumped by 2,866 to a total of 130,450, according to data from the Robert Koch Institute for infectious diseases. → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 08:43 |
| disillusion | Being a USian, when I see that both the Washingon Post and Fox News (supposedly rivals) are reporting the same thing, I know that powerful people in the U.S. have approved pushing this narrative. | 08:45 |
| tinwhiskers | or it's just click-bait and brings in revenue | 08:46 |
| tinwhiskers | there's a lot of truthers out there who just gobble that crap up | 08:46 |
| disillusion | click bait??? | 08:46 |
| disillusion | more like calculated propaganda. There's an important blame game that elites feel a need to wage. | 08:47 |
| disillusion | click bait is women in bikini's in the right-side column of the news articles | 08:47 |
| disillusion | click bait is easy | 08:47 |
| tinwhiskers | personally I'd tend more toward it being a solid revenue stream rather than invoke a conspiracy to explain a conspiracy, but you can't rule it out | 08:47 |
| disillusion | this stuff about a chinese lab originating it takes a lot of work | 08:48 |
| tinwhiskers | no, it really doesn't. it's a load of horse shit | 08:48 |
| tinwhiskers | cheap clicks | 08:48 |
| disillusion | tinwhiskers, if it's made for "click bait", both Fox News and Washington Post can be sued for fraud | 08:49 |
| disillusion | it would be nationwide scandal | 08:49 |
| disillusion | it means the so-called "U.S. officials" cited in the article never existed | 08:49 |
| disillusion | click isn't outright fraud like that | 08:49 |
| tinwhiskers | only if you can disprove it, so it's very safe since you really can't ever know. I think you'll find they are not claiming it as fact themselves but saying someone else is saying it's a fact | 08:49 |
| disillusion | *click bait | 08:49 |
| disillusion | oh yeah I notice they hedge their arguments in the same articles | 08:50 |
| disillusion | the conspiracy stuff is at the top, while the other side farther down, in the parts that many people don't read since it's the "boring" facty part of the article | 08:50 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, so very much looking like click-bait | 08:51 |
| disillusion | but like I said, it's more fraud/propaganda than click-bait | 08:51 |
| tinwhiskers | the motivation is to get people to click to generate revenue = click-bait | 08:51 |
| tinwhiskers | I don't buy the propaganda angle | 08:52 |
| disillusion | there are women singers making some interesting solo videos of themselves in lingerie during the quarantine, that's how you get click-bait in a time like this. | 08:52 |
| tinwhiskers | sure, there's all sorts of ways to generate clicks | 08:52 |
| ubLIX | like jester, above, posted advertisements | 08:53 |
| ubLIX | *posting | 08:53 |
| disillusion | tinwhiskers, even the Fox News article confirms that there's a propaganda element to all this. This part: | 08:53 |
| disillusion | "the sources tell Fox News that blaming the wet market was an effort by China to deflect blame from the laboratory, along with the country's propaganda efforts targeting the U.S. and Italy." | 08:53 |
| tinwhiskers | Fox. ffs | 08:54 |
| disillusion | so absolutely we have to consider establishment propaganda in "news" articles about the virus | 08:54 |
| tinwhiskers | they are saying propaganda is involved to get clicks from all the truthers | 08:54 |
| disillusion | tinwhiskers, the Fox News audience is much larger than a few "truthers". | 08:54 |
| tinwhiskers | you were claiming american propaganda because both news agencies were saying the same thing | 08:55 |
| disillusion | it's the Republican Party establishment and voters, that is, almost half of the U.S. voting population | 08:55 |
| disillusion | tinwhiskers, one of things both WaPo and Fox News are saying, by repeating the words of "anonymous sources", is that it's all the fault of the Chinese government. | 08:56 |
| disillusion | this is from the WaPo article: | 08:57 |
| disillusion | "As many have pointed out, there is no evidence that the virus now plaguing the world was engineered; scientists largely agree it came from animals. But that is not the same as saying it didn’t come from the lab" | 08:57 |
| tinwhiskers | right. that's just an appealing topic to generate revenue, and not " powerful people in the U.S. have approved pushing this narrative." | 08:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 06:51 UTC: nCoV: Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) → https://is.gd/tYRkEc | 08:57 |
| tinwhiskers | it's just news that sells | 08:57 |
| ubLIX | disillusion: https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/04/debunking-some-ideas-about-the-virus.html | 08:57 |
| disillusion | tinwhiskers, an "appealing topic"?? | 08:58 |
| ubLIX | you don't have to read very far to get to the punchline: | 08:58 |
| ubLIX | "Science will eventually solve that conundrum. Until it does there is little to gain from further speculation about it." | 08:58 |
| tinwhiskers | appealing as in it makes people want to click on it - click-bait | 08:58 |
| disillusion | tinwhiskers, that quote is from someone named "Xiao Qiang", a really Chinese-sounding name of a professor at Berkeley, which means this U.S. professor must have magical inside information about the secretive Chinese programs. | 08:59 |
| tinwhiskers | disillusion: I'm getting the feeling you're actually pushing the "virus came from a lab" narrative, which I've said has no place here | 08:59 |
| jester | everyone whines i need a mask | 08:59 |
| disillusion | no I'm not tinwhiskers, I already said at the very beginning I'm skeptical of these mainstream media reports | 09:00 |
| tinwhiskers | ok, well, I disagree. let's just leave it | 09:00 |
| disillusion | but the Washington Post and Fox News are very powerful and influential news organizations in the United States, with very large audiences | 09:00 |
| yuri[m] | tinwhiskers: And why do you believe the truth about it leaking out of a lab has no place here? | 09:01 |
| disillusion | and like I said, click bait can be anything. I prefer women in lingerie making music videos of themselves in quarantine for that. I don't need this nonsense about the Chinese government causing the virus to click on that. | 09:01 |
| tinwhiskers | yuri[m]: because it's unsubstantiated speculation. It's off-topic here as far as I'm concerned. You're welcome to dicuss that stuff in the suster -vax channel | 09:02 |
| tinwhiskers | *sister | 09:02 |
| tinwhiskers | * -vox | 09:02 |
| yuri[m] | tinwhiskers: I am curious what part of the reality of you are unable to comprehend and call "speculation". So let's start with the very basics. Does the http://www.whiov.cas.cn/ website where they still have the old job listings for corona virus researches listed exist or is that part of reality to hard for you to comprehend? | 09:06 |
| tinwhiskers | yuri[m]: it's off-topic here. take it to ##coronavirus-vox. last warning. | 09:07 |
| yuri[m] | That's interesting, so you're unable to acknowledge that website exists and you feel like warning others about your lack of acceptance of reality. Why are you so heavily invested in squashing any debate about this topic? | 09:09 |
| disillusion | yuri[m], the well-funded corporate media uses citations such as "sources". That's the problem. When someone says their sources are "sources", that means it's speculation. | 09:09 |
| disillusion | yuri[m], show me a citation in here and I'll take you seriously: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources | 09:09 |
| disillusion | lol it's even right there in the fox news url at the end: "sources" | 09:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 07:08 UTC: nCoV: Coronavirus (COVID-19) current situation and case numbers | 15APR20 → https://is.gd/cZ8Suy | 09:11 |
| pyna | what i wanna know is why this channel is so heavily invested in squashing any debate about exactly how many invisible moons are being hidden from us by the dolphins | 09:16 |
| \n3p\ | Brazil: Bolsonaro Blocks Government from Using Mobile Data to Track Social Distancing https://www.tercalivre.com.br/bolsonaro-interfere-e-manda-suspender-uso-de-dados-de-celulares-para-monitorar-isolamento-social/ | 09:17 |
| ubLIX | careful now pyna, that is a very sensitive topic | 09:17 |
| tinwhiskers | pyna: it's just considered off-topic here. you're welome to discuss it elsewhere | 09:17 |
| ynhof[m] | I heard they are still there, theres these giant things up there to confuse us | 09:17 |
| \n3p\ | Well done Bolsonaro! Privacy first! | 09:17 |
| pyna | sources are claiming the dolphins have something to do with miami | 09:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:15 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Outbreak on French aircraft carrier as 668 navy sailors test positive: The number of new confirmed cases in Germany jumped by 2,866 to a total of 130,450, according to data from the Robert Koch Institute for infectious diseases. → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 09:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:22 UTC: (news): Some countries in the Middle East are using artificial intelligence to fight the coronavirus pandemic → https://is.gd/Tymwh7 | 09:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 07:26 UTC: "Stability issues of RT-PCR testing of SARS-CoV-2"?: I just came across this tidbit of information from PubMed that posted last month. The testing even varies with the individual at different times. → https://is.gd/VSBbq9 | 09:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:35 UTC: Coronavirus UK live: government expected to announce three-week extension to lockdown: Foreign secretary Dominic Raab to lead meetings on Covid-19 physical distancing measures as sources say ministers have no lockdown exit plan → https://is.gd/OyPbzX | 09:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:38 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Outbreak on French aircraft carrier as 668 navy sailors test positive: The number of new confirmed cases in Germany jumped by 2,866 to a total of 130,450, according to data from the Robert Koch Institute for infectious diseases. → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 09:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:48 UTC: Coronavirus UK live: government expected to announce three-week extension to lockdown: Foreign secretary Dominic Raab to lead meetings on Covid-19 physical distancing measures as sources say ministers have no lockdown exit plan → https://is.gd/OyPbzX | 09:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:07 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Giappone → https://is.gd/LL7PX3 | 10:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:12 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA → https://is.gd/XOH8N6 | 10:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 08:19 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Medico legale muore dopo aver contratto il coronavirus da un cadavere a Bangkok, Thailandia. → https://is.gd/u9T19m | 10:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:25 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Outbreak on French aircraft carrier as 668 navy sailors test positive: The number of new confirmed cases in Germany jumped by 2,866 to a total of 130,450, according to data from the Robert Koch Institute for infectious diseases. → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 10:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:33 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: French sailors hospitalized; Russia reports new record daily rise in cases: Russia reported 3,448 new confirmed cases of the coronavirus on Thursday, up from 3,388 the day before. Meanwhile, France has reported an outbreak on an aircraft carrier. → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 10:36 |
| doublejay[m] | Morning shut ins | 10:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:35 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as IMF issues Asia warning: Cases pass 2 million; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 10:43 |
| adventurer | https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=occupy%20democrats&epa=SEARCH_BOX | 10:48 |
| ynhof[m] | %data canada | 10:49 |
| Brainstorm | ynhof[m]: In all areas, Canada, there are 28379 cases (0.1% of the population) and 1010 deaths (3.6% of cases) as of 14 minutes ago. 467736 tests were performed (6.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.2% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 10.1% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. | 10:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 08:44 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Coronavirus, zoo svuotati in Germania, il proprietario di uno di questi ha suggerito che potrebbe dover ricorrere a sfamare alcuni animali con degli altri presenti nello zoo per rimanere finanziariamente a galla. → https://is.gd/HocP3P | 10:50 |
| Birosso | %cases germany | 10:51 |
| Brainstorm | Birosso: In all areas, Germany, there are 134753 cases (0.2% of the population) and 3804 deaths (2.8% of cases) as of 58 seconds ago. 1.7 million tests were performed (7.8% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.9% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 4.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 10:51 |
| mefistofeles | https://online-learning.harvard.edu/course/lessons-ebola-preventing-next-pandemic?delta=0 this is interesting | 10:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:48 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: Lockdown to be extended as minister warns no return to normal without vaccine → https://is.gd/OyPbzX | 10:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:07 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: French sailors hospitalized; Russia reports new record daily rise in cases: Russia reported 3,448 new confirmed cases of the coronavirus on Thursday, up from 3,388 the day before. Meanwhile, France has reported an outbreak on an aircraft carrier. → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 11:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 09:18 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Vaccino → https://is.gd/uvhnGn | 11:18 |
| \n3p\ | Iran Parliament Hears Coronavirus Deaths Almost Double Official Count https://apnews.com/15502fe8fc535119f927d2669b63ce91 | 11:25 |
| \n3p\ | Mexico | 9% of infected are physicians (most of them in public hospitals) | 11:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:20 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as IMF issues Asia warning: Cases pass 2 million; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 11:32 |
| adventurer | How do they estimate when a flu originated and how do 'they' know covid was not around last year for quite some time before being detected by the doctors in Wuhan. Because AU had the worst flu season on record last year. How do they know these were not in some percentage of cases Covid...sorry if this question is stupid | 11:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:39 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: Lockdown to be extended as minister warns no return to normal without vaccine → https://is.gd/OyPbzX | 11:46 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: After anonymous tip, 17 bodies found at nursing home hit by virus. (10018 votes) | https://redd.it/g24w3n | 11:55 |
| \n3p\ | adventurer, that question only be answered by Australian physicians. (I guess they tested for influenza, but only they know) | 11:59 |
| pwr22 | Morning everyone | 11:59 |
| pwr22 | I've just started work on a second face mask after learning how to sew better 😁 | 11:59 |
| pwr22 | v2.0 | 11:59 |
| adventurer | where is that answer \n3p\ I would like to read it | 12:00 |
| adventurer | do you have a link | 12:00 |
| \n3p\ | adventurer, I don't know. Ask to Australian Health system | 12:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:53 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as IMF issues Asia warning: Cases pass 2 million; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 12:01 |
| pwr22 | I've got some of these to use as a filter layer in my masks instead of kitchen roll: | 12:02 |
| \n3p\ | In general countries are bad to detect new viruses. Mexico needed the help of CDC in 2009 to identify A/H1N1 influenza | 12:04 |
| adventurer | oh sorry i misunderstood | 12:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:11 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: WHO says coming weeks are 'critical' as Europe's cases near 1 million: The World Health Organization's European regional director said Thursday that in the past 10 days, the number of confirmed coronavirus cases in Europe has doubled to reach almost 1 million. → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 12:15 |
| mefistofeles | these headlines xD | 12:17 |
| mefistofeles | adventurer: yes, as \n3p\ said, people get tested for many virus | 12:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:18 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/6LUk6W | 12:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:32 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: WHO says coming weeks are 'critical' as Europe's cases near 1 million: The World Health Organization's European regional director said Thursday that in the past 10 days, the number of confirmed coronavirus cases in Europe has doubled to reach almost 1 million. → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 12:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 10:46 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Significant social distancing needed 'until vaccine found' → https://is.gd/jZTD7o | 12:50 |
| \n3p\ | Sources believe coronavirus originated in Wuhan lab as part of China's efforts to compete with US https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-wuhan-lab-china-compete-us-sources | 12:52 |
| mefistofeles | \n3p\: :/ | 12:53 |
| mefistofeles | nonsense | 12:53 |
| mefistofeles | also, foxnews xD | 12:53 |
| \n3p\ | It's a possibility that the virus escape from Wuhan lab. In that lab they study coronavirus from bats since many years ago. There are a lot of papers published | 12:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:51 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: WHO says coming weeks are 'critical' as Europe's cases near 1 million: The World Health Organization's European regional director said Thursday that in the past 10 days, the number of confirmed coronavirus cases in Europe has doubled to reach almost 1 million. → https://is.gd/qFIKwB | 12:57 |
| adventurer | \n3p\, I think the virus might have been around last year just a personal theory | 13:06 |
| adventurer | and it would explain Australia's record 2019 flu season | 13:07 |
| MinceR | which strain, in what animal | 13:07 |
| MinceR | what happened in australia in 2019? | 13:07 |
| ubLIX | \n3p\: why are you saying that now? that idea was mooted 3 months ago; it is no less moot now than it was then, as far as i know | 13:07 |
| adventurer | it's just a big coincidence that AU had a record flu season last year and then this is identified this year | 13:08 |
| adventurer | https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-11/early-outbreaks-to-blame-for-worst-flu-season-on-record/11949320 | 13:08 |
| adventurer | I waant someone to prove me wrong | 13:09 |
| \n3p\ | Anything is possible. We need a serious and independent investigation. But CCP is destroying evidence and killing witnesses | 13:09 |
| adventurer | or explain why it's' wrong | 13:09 |
| adventurer | if it's wrong | 13:09 |
| adventurer | that's scary | 13:09 |
| adventurer | Why are they killing people? | 13:10 |
| adventurer | Do you know for sure they are? | 13:10 |
| ubLIX | \n3p\: look... if you want to express beliefs and fears beyond the possibility verification, do it in ##coronavirus-vox | 13:10 |
| adventurer | Australia had the most sucessful vacination rate last year | 13:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:11 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Spagna → https://is.gd/lKSLEB | 13:11 |
| adventurer | and the biggest flu season on record | 13:11 |
| adventurer | that is more than just a bit weird unless covid was there last year | 13:11 |
| adventurer | one of the most | 13:12 |
| \n3p\ | I'm expressing possibilities. Science estudies them. Are called HYPOTHESIS | 13:12 |
| adventurer | "More than 310,000 people presented to Australian health services with influenza in 2019, marking the country's worst flu season on record | 13:12 |
| adventurer | Researchers say that it was one of the most successful vaccination years to date but early outbreaks occurred before vaccines were given out" | 13:12 |
| adventurer | if Covid-19 wasn't here..then what the heck? | 13:12 |
| adventurer | one of the most successful vaccination years and worst flu season on record to me that says very likely something else was up...COVID-19....I want to ask an expert this | 13:13 |
| adventurer | if it could be possible | 13:13 |
| ubLIX | \n3p\: science deals in that which can be falsified; for practical reasons, we are a long way away from being able to falsify your expressed fears, hence take it to -vox | 13:14 |
| ubLIX | last chance, \n3p\ | 13:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:13 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: Lockdown to be extended as as minister warns no return to normal without vaccine → https://is.gd/OyPbzX | 13:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:21 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Economia - USA → https://is.gd/jHyfY7 | 13:25 |
| minato_ | %cases World | 13:32 |
| Brainstorm | minato_: In all areas, worldwide, there are 2.1 million cases (0.0% of the population) and 136277 deaths (6.5% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 17.3 million tests were performed (12.0% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=worldwide for time series data. | 13:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 11:25 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Significant social distancing needed 'until vaccine found' → https://is.gd/jZTD7o | 13:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:31 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump casts doubt on China death toll as IMF issues Asia warning: Cases pass 2 million; WHO chief hopes US will remain a ‘friend’; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. Follow the latest updates → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 13:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:52 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Correzione dell'ultimo post : (Una minoranza di tutti gli infettati non sviluppano) → https://is.gd/muI57m | 13:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 11:59 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/E2MHQR | 14:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:01 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: lockdown to be extended as minister warns no return to normal without vaccine → https://is.gd/OyPbzX | 14:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 12:09 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Significant social distancing needed 'until vaccine found' → https://is.gd/jZTD7o | 14:14 |
| Biep[m] | LjL, LjL LjL : Why did the case ticker stop? | 14:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 12:16 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: lockdown to be extended as minister warns no return to normal without vaccine → https://is.gd/OyPbzX | 14:21 |
| mefistofeles | I, for one, am glad it died | 14:31 |
| mefistofeles | did* | 14:31 |
| davros | "no return to normal without vaccine" ... that is refreshing honesty | 14:31 |
| davros | 3 months of outright lockdown is what i was expecting | 14:32 |
| mefistofeles | davros: only for special cases | 14:32 |
| davros | and after that there will still be restrictions (social distancing, mandatory masks, surveeilance to facilitate contact tracing) | 14:33 |
| davros | and even then a likely second wave and second full lockdown | 14:33 |
| mefistofeles | where? not likely in most places | 14:33 |
| Biep[m] | <mefistofeles "I, for one, am glad it died"> The case ticker? Why? You could simply leave its room? | 14:33 |
| mefistofeles | Biep[m]: well, I don't find it useful, if I need the info I would just ask for it or check one of the better dashboards, etc. | 14:34 |
| mefistofeles | no need to leave the room xD | 14:34 |
| davros | are you saying a second wave is not likely in most places | 14:34 |
| davros | or that surveilance is not likely in most places | 14:34 |
| mefistofeles | davros: depends on how you define a second wave | 14:34 |
| mefistofeles | davros: the second wave, and mandatory masks also not likely in many places | 14:34 |
| Biep[m] | Well, the room is useless now - no-one can write in it, and the one bot that could doesn't. | 14:34 |
| Biep[m] | * mefistofeles: Well, the room is useless now - no-one can write in it, and the one bot that could doesn't. | 14:35 |
| mefistofeles | Biep[m]: what? are you talking about this room? I don't get it | 14:35 |
| Biep[m] | I am talking about the case ticker room: #covid-updates:matrix.org. | 14:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:28 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Economia e società → https://is.gd/1kMaaf | 14:35 |
| mefistofeles | ah ok, Biep[m] , no idea about that, I don't use matrix | 14:35 |
| davros | admitedly i think most countries will not resort to firebombing their infected cities, but the surveillance and masks are likely :) | 14:36 |
| Biep[m] | I don't need the updates here - but having the dedicated room was very useful. | 14:36 |
| mefistofeles | surveillance is now becoming accepted, but was present already | 14:36 |
| Biep[m] | <mefistofeles "ah ok, Biep , no idea about that"> You are missing out on so much.. 😛 | 14:36 |
| mefistofeles | davros: masks, I doubt it, I mean, not even during the peak they were mandatory in many places | 14:37 |
| mefistofeles | Biep[m]: haha I don't think so, I've tried it in the past, not for me | 14:37 |
| Biep[m] | <Biep[m] "LjL, LjL LjL : Why did the case "> Just to make sure - I am talking about the room you made, #covid-updates:matrix.org. | 14:37 |
| mefistofeles | also that "fear of missing out" commonly doesn't work for me, that's probably one of the reasons I stick with IRC and don't use any other social network | 14:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:37 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump to unveil reopening guidelines, China races toward a vaccine → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 14:42 |
| davros | the only reason masks were not mandatory is they couldnt make enough , IMO | 14:45 |
| davros | hence the mixed messaging | 14:45 |
| davros | "you might not crash your car, so you dont always need to wear a seatbelt" | 14:45 |
| mefistofeles | it's not that easy | 14:47 |
| yuriwho | Calling all data scientists!!!! https://pages.semanticscholar.org/coronavirus-research | 15:09 |
| yuriwho | %t | 15:09 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: From pages.semanticscholar.org: CORD-19 | Semantic Scholar | 15:09 |
| yuriwho | ^ open access data hub | 15:09 |
| yuriwho | As part of a White House Office of Science and Technology Policy project, CZI Science came together with the Allen Institute for AI, the National Institutes of Health’s National Library of Medicine, Georgetown University’s Center for Security and Emerging Technology, Microsoft Research, and others to launch a machine-readable dataset on COVID-19 research. This dataset has been created to support machine learning | 15:09 |
| yuriwho | and data mining researchers. It currently contains over 50k research articles and is regularly updated with new ones. | 15:09 |
| PlanckWalk | Ooooh | 15:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 13:35 UTC: Angela Merkel: Angela Merkel draws on science background in Covid-19 explainer → https://is.gd/xFF4Qj | 15:38 |
| mefistofeles | ↑ Interesting | 15:42 |
| mefistofeles | something you don't see every day from political leaders | 15:42 |
| iz | daily increase in covid-19 cases in spain since they partially restarted the economy this week: 4/12 +3.8k, 4/13 +3.3k, 4/14 +2.4k, 4/15 +5.1k | 15:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:38 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump to unveil reopening guidelines, China races toward a vaccine → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 15:45 |
| mefistofeles | iz: yes, to be expected... | 15:48 |
| genera | you have links to those videos too? | 15:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:52 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Regno Unito → https://is.gd/xQdurw | 15:53 |
| mefistofeles | yuriwho: nice link dataset | 16:06 |
| mefistofeles | this was linked before but now it's much larger | 16:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 14:02 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: Significant social distancing needed 'until vaccine found' → https://is.gd/jZTD7o | 16:07 |
| Hoffman | hlo | 16:11 |
| mefistofeles | hey | 16:11 |
| Hoffman | I have drank a beer named after you mefistofeles | 16:12 |
| Hoffman | it was 14.666% abv | 16:12 |
| mefistofeles | Hoffman: woah, that's strong | 16:13 |
| dTal | and evil | 16:13 |
| mefistofeles | just like me | 16:13 |
| mefistofeles | xD | 16:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 14:10 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Veneto → https://is.gd/JjW7U8 | 16:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 14:20 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Lombardia → https://is.gd/gl5Cxj | 16:21 |
| Flaviker | !covid global | 16:28 |
| CoronaBot | ,01[ERR] Country/state not found! | 16:28 |
| Flaviker | !covid | 16:28 |
| CoronaBot | Total cases: 2,108,445 (+26,073), deaths: 137,036 (+2,476), recovered: 526,700. Active cases: 1,444,709, 1,393,593 are in a mild condition, 51,116 are in a serious condition. Mortality: 6.50%, case fatality rate: 20.65%. Case rate: 84,515/24h, death rate: 7,959/24h. Last update: 5m ago. | 16:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:26 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump to unveil reopening guidelines, China races toward a vaccine → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 16:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:39 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: No 10 claims Covid-19 crisis strengthens need for UK to be free of EU regulation after 2020 → https://is.gd/OyPbzX | 16:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 14:47 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Coronavirus, Chloroquine and Hydroxychloroquine: Is Hemoglobin The Real Key To Treating Coronavirus? → https://is.gd/6ITQ7a | 16:49 |
| Paddy_ | hi tone | 16:54 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Shopper who stockpiled $10k of toilet paper, sanitiser refused refund (10201 votes) | https://redd.it/g2aoiy | 16:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 14:53 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Giappone → https://is.gd/HEhXoR | 16:56 |
| Tone__ | Hi Paddy I am brand new to Hexchat and I am reszearching aspects of Covid 19 - lierally just loaded it and went to randonm site | 16:56 |
| Paddy_ | i see you | 16:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 14:57 UTC: /u/slakmehl: POLITICO su Twitter: "BREAKING: he small business relief fund is officially out of $350 billion — and Congress is deadlocked over allocating more money https://t.co/xNPmIrlvTq" → https://is.gd/AyL8hU | 17:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:06 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Trump to unveil reopening guidelines, China races toward a vaccine → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 17:10 |
| Hoffman | lol | 17:10 |
| Hoffman | billions for corporations but not one more cent for hospitals | 17:11 |
| LjL | Biep[m], i'm aware, but i keep forgetting... it's a bug i need to figure out, it's just not sending any updates despite the %cases command working | 17:11 |
| Hoffman | shows where priorities lie | 17:11 |
| davros | if china makes a vaccine everyone will think they had it all along and released the virus on purpose | 17:13 |
| Hoffman | This Is True | 17:14 |
| Hoffman | of certain people. | 17:14 |
| Hoffman | but they already believe most of that anyways | 17:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:08 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: 1m tests to be rolled out across Africa, as WHO warns over Europe situation → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 17:17 |
| l0ndoner | o/ | 17:18 |
| Hoffman | \o | 17:19 |
| Fritzwastaken | Whoa, distancing boys | 17:19 |
| Fritzwastaken | 6 lines of separation | 17:20 |
| Hoffman | ......\o | 17:20 |
| Hoffman | wait no thats a person swimming | 17:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:19 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Ci sono problemi tecnici oggi con Embedly, i link dovrebbero funzionare comunque → https://is.gd/nWenyY | 17:24 |
| Hoffman | o/ | 17:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:24 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: 1m tests to be rolled out across Africa, as WHO warns over Europe situation → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 17:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 15:41 UTC: nCoV: Japan declares nationwide state of emergency amid coronavirus spread | 16APR20 → https://is.gd/Rs0qCN | 17:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 15:48 UTC: nCoV: Singapore coronavirus cases cross 4,000 with new daily high of 728 cases | 16APR20 → https://is.gd/i2BUqG | 17:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 15:57 UTC: nCoV: Health confirms in La Gomera the first case of coronavirus in Spain | Sanidad confirma en La Gomera el primer caso de coronavirus en España | (TIC) 16APR20 → https://is.gd/yh1t2g | 17:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 16:03 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Governor Lee announces free COVID-19 testing for all Tennesseans → https://is.gd/jLqK0m | 18:06 |
| LjL | Italy daily press conference at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoh3Ho0kh0k and I will take notes | 18:16 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Silvio Brusaferro, the president of ISS, is here with us. Good evening. | 18:16 |
| LjL | Currently positive: 106607, +1139 | 18:16 |
| LjL | We have 2936 patients in ICU, -143; 26896 are hospitalized, -750 | 18:17 |
| LjL | It's the least ICU taken up since March 21 | 18:17 |
| LjL | Most people are self-isolating at home, 76778 (72%) | 18:17 |
| LjL | The percentage in ICU is 3%. | 18:17 |
| LjL | We have +525 new deaths, while recoveries are 40174(?), +2072. | 18:17 |
| LjL | 61000 tests were made today. | 18:18 |
| LjL | We have 17523 volunteers now. | 18:18 |
| LjL | Pre-triage tents are 835 in hospitals, 151 in prisons. | 18:18 |
| LjL | Donations have reached 126 million euro, 34 million of which were spent for purchasing PPEs and ventilators. | 18:19 |
| LjL | Important news today: one of the patients who had been transferred to Germany has come back to Italy thanks to a transfer organized by the Lombary Crisis Unit. | 18:19 |
| LjL | The patients is in good conditions and needs no ICU now. | 18:19 |
| LjL | Our medical task force has had to be rescheduled partly, 11 doctors have left but the rest will be leaving tomorrow. | 18:20 |
| LjL | (Brusaferro) Good evening. Some short comments, then we can proceed with questions. | 18:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:15 UTC: (news): UK extends coronavirus lockdown measures by at least three weeks → https://is.gd/Y3Wy4w | 18:20 |
| LjL | As we've seen for a few days, we're in a downwards trends, with curves that are delayed in time. | 18:21 |
| LjL | Tomorrow at 12 there will be a conference at our Institute, which will complement the daily appointment we have here. | 18:21 |
| LjL | I want to thank our epidemiologists, who "feed" these data we provide. | 18:21 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Any questions now? | 18:22 |
| LjL | Q: Prof. Brusaferro, I'd like to talk about serology tests again. Various regions, and companies, are getting organized in a haphazard way. How does the scientific committee plan to manage this sampling, and have a common standard? | 18:23 |
| LjL | A: This topic seems to "torment" us every day. I'll try to clarify the state of the art. These tests try to find antibodies against the virus in people's blood. There are many products now on the market, and the number is rising, which is a good thing, but at the same time they have only existed since recently, and evaluation of their predictive value, specificity and sensitivity, which are basically terms that mean to make sure whether someone is actually | 18:24 |
| LjL | positive or negative, without false results... | 18:24 |
| LjL | This is a work in progress, and today we cannot provide "immunity passports". If someone is positive they must still get a PCR test to verify existence of viral RNA. This will change with new knowledge in the future. | 18:24 |
| LjL | At this time what is being done centrally is a seroprevalence study that aims to determine how many people have come with contact with the virus, in a more accurate way than existing estimates, to try to understand the amount of circulation. | 18:25 |
| LjL | There are varying estimates on it, but we estimate that over 90% of people have NOT come in contact with the virus, although it varies among regions, and so they ARE susceptible to infection. | 18:25 |
| LjL | So if we are not very careful with adopting recommendations, we may lose some of our results. We are seeing now that even in the hardest-hit areas, the numbers are going down. We must keep this data in time. | 18:26 |
| LjL | 90% is obviously an approximate estimate, it will be less in Lombardy, but probably just 85%... in other regions it may be 95%... which means the vast majority are susceptible. | 18:26 |
| LjL | Herd immunity would mean at least 70% of the population having come in contact with the virus, which is a target that is VERY far from us now. | 18:27 |
| LjL | There isn't a golden standard for these tests now. | 18:27 |
| LjL | Q: So I seem to understand that the serology tests being organized to provide an "immunity passport" have no value according to the ISS? | 18:27 |
| LjL | A: I can say that today we have no grounds to provide such a passport. There is simply no scientific grounds. If we do get that in the future, anyway, the amount of positives we have will have a strong influence on our choices. | 18:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:22 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Numero di tamponi effettuati oggi sono stati 61mila → https://is.gd/zdvC2F | 18:28 |
| LjL | Q: In the last few hours there have been controversies about re-opening things on May 4. What is your position? | 18:28 |
| LjL | A: Positions are never individual ones, the whole scientific committee is analyzing the various options and evaluating the impact of various measures. Our aim is to keep R0 below 1, as if it went up above 1 the epidemic would continue. | 18:29 |
| LjL | We are reasoning on a "mix" of measures that will allow releasing some while not making R0 spike up above 1. | 18:29 |
| LjL | Obviously it will be a mix that includes restrictive measures but also the ability to monitor and trace positives even before they reach hospitals, but where they live and work. | 18:29 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) As for myself, I can say these analyses are in progress, and I want to wait the results of them before expressing a judgment. | 18:30 |
| LjL | Q: According to a study of the Hong Kong University on Nature, one person can infect other people 2 or 3 days before symptoms manifest. Do you know about this study? You've always told us publicly that taking the temperature was a discriminant factor for being able to enter workplaces. Would this change? | 18:30 |
| LjL | A: No. If you see the latest notes by the Ministry of Health, they underline the necessity of quickly tracing contacts. Probability of infection is maximum during symptoms, while before symptoms it's lower. So today the recommendation is to make efforts on contact tracing, maybe with apps and technology in the future. | 18:31 |
| LjL | There isn't a contradiction: the probability of exposure is the most when there are symptoms, but contacts are traced also for the days before symptoms, and they are quarantined. | 18:32 |
| LjL | Q: Today the Italian Society of General Medicine sent the government a letter asking to start mass vaccination for influenza to avoid an overlap between flu and this virus. What do you think of this? And a vice-minister said that when we have a COVID-19 vaccine, it will have to be compulsory. What do you think? | 18:33 |
| LjL | A: Flu vaccination will be even more important next year. The call to especially the vulnerable categories is to get protected against influenza. I as well as all institution can only be firmly convinced that we must make it so the majority of people are covered against the influenza risk. So the answer is yes, and I know the Minister is already active on this. | 18:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 16:32 UTC: Aggiornamento 16/04: submitted by /u/maikk_ to r/CoronaVirus_ITALIA → https://is.gd/gtJohA | 18:35 |
| LjL | As to the second question, it's a topic... we will have to reason in order to protect the population. The 90% number is mentioned varies across the countries, but in some places it may be more, so it's actually an optimistic number; to cover the population we must be able to adminiter millions of doses of the vaccine. | 18:35 |
| LjL | We need to have a vaccine that works, and find a way to obtain it for millions, in order to actually get herd immunity, and systematically contain this epidemic among all latitudes and age groups. | 18:35 |
| LjL | Q: Looking at today's data, one months since "the emergency" we count over 20000 deaths. My point is tied to ICU use. There has been an incredible effort on organizing this, let's call it, remedy. But looking at the data, despite this huge effort, there are about 3000 people in ICU, but the deaths are about 600 a day, many of which in nursing home... so if I interpret the tables and numbers, there's something tied to the relationship, correlation, between | 18:37 |
| LjL | not getting into ICU, and death. Is there difficulties? | 18:37 |
| LjL | A: Mortality is an important topic in Italy, certainly. A correlation like you suspect, I have no elements right now to determine that, but we know the vast majority... fortunately a small part of the population does get into ICU, but since we have a large number of infected, it's still many people. ICU has been enhanced, especially in the most affected areas. I think my collegues who triaged patients did it based on the seriousness of disease. | 18:38 |
| LjL | [inaudible] | 18:38 |
| LjL | A: I think people have a triage path. Within this triage, my colleagues allocate respiratory support depending on seriousness of symptoms. At this time, fortunately, we have some "free space" in ICU beds. People are allocated on a principle of appropriateness now: those who need it get that treatment. | 18:39 |
| LjL | [inaudible] | 18:39 |
| l0ndoner | what are they talking about keeping R below 1 | 18:41 |
| LjL | A: Well we may talk about nursing home tomorrow in a more detailed way, also to make explicit the type of monitoring we're doing, since it's been a recurring question... at this time, monitoring is by means of questionnaires and interviews with nursing home personnel. | 18:41 |
| LjL | You already saw the first two reports, the next one will be similar if more detailed; it tries to look at mortality over time, while knowing that in some cases tests have been performed, while in other cases there have been COVID-like symptoms but without a test. | 18:41 |
| LjL | We are trying to understand this phenomenon, also with the help of ISTAT, putting data on mortality together with data on mortality from the municipalities. When we must put together data on a national scale, they have to be harmonized. As soon as we have consolidated data we'll try to provide them. | 18:42 |
| LjL | Q: Today we see "two Italies": Piedmont and Lombardy, unlike other regions, keep going up. Today is the first time positives in Piedmont are more than Emilia-Romagna. Given this, I find Lombardy's desire to re-open contradictory. But also, why do we still have these numbers? What didn't work? | 18:43 |
| LjL | A: I would not say it didn't work. Looking at the numbers, even in Lombardy and Piedmont there is a downward trend. Of course, in those regions the virus circulated much more. We often talks about "three Italies" in our Friday press conference: the south and the islands have very low levels of transmission; the center has an intermediate level, which requires surveillance; and in the northern regions there is a downward trend but we're talking about a much | 18:44 |
| LjL | greater amount of people. | 18:44 |
| LjL | We must consider this data and we are seeing a reduction but we must consider that in those regions, as fewer sick people used to get hospital care, today we have more ability to test more on the territory, which clearly finds even milder cases, and that is a good thing, it means intercepting them early, and avoid symptomatically exposing others to the infection, and we can quarantine them together with their contact. | 18:45 |
| LjL | I'll wait a few more days to look at these regions, while keeping population density in mind. | 18:45 |
| LjL | Q: Two questions, on the short and the long terms. Parks and children going out: I have looked at all the measures taken in other countries, and Italy has the most restrictive ones. After May 4, will it be feasible to talk about "family walks", or will this only happen in "phase 3" or even later? And as to next summer, will people be able to go to beaches, are you working on that, or will it be another difficult issues with close contacts? | 18:46 |
| LjL | A: These are very complex questions. I'd start with a consideration: we are getting out of a difficult period, and the data, as your colleague was saying, show us the virus is still circulating in some areas; in other areas "it is working", but that also means the amount of susceptible people is even higher! So we must be careful in any measures we take. | 18:47 |
| LjL | We must avoid a resurgence of the virus. We've seen the effects, and we must avoid them as much as possible. To do this we must do things gradually, finding some specific sectors where we can release some restrictions but only while also monitoring them, so that we can understand if we are actually able to keep R0 below the threshold. | 18:48 |
| LjL | So, we must be cautious, we still have virus circulation, we have reached the important goal of getting R0 below 1, but we must keep that over time. | 18:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 16:47 UTC: ARE YOU PREPARED FOR THE PANDEMIC?: GET THE GUIDE AND PROTECT YOUR FAMILY TODAY! https://motivated-motivator-851.ck.page/2ce869b29b → https://is.gd/kD5nOO | 18:49 |
| LjL | That said, aside from COVID, there is another part of health that is important: physical exercise, movement... we must be able to tackle those things in a way that reduces risk. Children are important, but we also have family structures in Italy where children are in contact with their grandparents a lot. | 18:49 |
| LjL | In a family structure like the Italian one, even though children don't get sick seriously, it may become a boomerang. | 18:50 |
| LjL | It's hard to predict anything about summer holidays. I'll make a bit of a joke: if you climb in the Dolomites, alone, your COVID risk will be rather low. On the other hand if you're in a crowd, in a supermarket, that's... that's the deciding factor. We'll have to organize our lives keeping the factors that determine viral circulation into account. | 18:50 |
| LjL | Q: On self-isolation numbers: they're growing, thankfully, but you told us here that contagion actually happens within households, and that's the "new clusters". So on tests, can we not widen the target? We get a lot of people complaining they are waiting to get tested, but not getting tested. What answers can we give to people who are still waiting for a test due to having a sick relative, or similar? | 18:52 |
| LjL | A: One data point: I believe we're the country that's doing the most tests. Compare with other European countries: we're testing a lot, and day after day the number of tests is growing, today it was 61000, a number of tests that's really high. In an initial phase where we had fewer tests, while also having very many people crowding hospitals, tests were a deciding factor to give those people an answer. Today we can apply tests to other people, but as | 18:53 |
| LjL | important as tests are, quarantine is at least as important: people in contact with someone under quarantine must automatically be considered a close contact and quarantined. | 18:53 |
| LjL | Then, various medical entities, territorial entities, I believe they're rapidly moving towards handling this scenario. | 18:53 |
| LjL | By the data I have, we're moving towards that, and the Ministry itself is pushing towards this for "phase 2". | 18:54 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Okay. Thanks everyone, and good evening. | 18:54 |
| LjL | --- end | 18:54 |
| LjL | 18<20l0ndoner18> what are they talking about keeping R below 1 ← why wouldn't they talk about that? | 18:54 |
| l0ndoner | what is R is what I'm asking | 18:55 |
| l0ndoner | is it reproduction? | 18:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 16:54 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Trump’s Snowballing China Travel Claim → https://is.gd/eT0U7F | 18:56 |
| tinwhiskers | l0ndoner: R0 is basic reproductive rate, r(eff) is the effective reproductive rate, which is really what they are talking about. | 18:57 |
| LjL | l0ndoner, R0 is basically, how many other people, on average, will an infected person infect? | 18:58 |
| LjL | it changes geographically and depending on which measures are in place | 18:58 |
| LjL | when R0 is higher than 1, it means that contagion is still growing exponentially | 18:59 |
| LjL | if it's lower than 1, it means hopefully the virus will disappear at some point | 18:59 |
| LjL | when it hovers around 1, that's when something is endemic | 18:59 |
| LjL | i believe influenza is around R0=1.3, not sure if that's only during winter or over the year | 18:59 |
| LjL | this virus was believed to be somewhere between 2.5 and 4, but i was just pointed to a study on early chinese data that suggests the "unmitigated" R0 is more like 5 to 10 | 19:00 |
| tinwhiskers | That's during winter. | 19:00 |
| LjL | which would be... high | 19:00 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, right, it wasn't specific where i read it, but i kind of thought so, or else it would be exponential and we'd all have a flue all the time, i guess | 19:00 |
| LjL | specified* | 19:00 |
| tinwhiskers | Yah | 19:00 |
| l0ndoner | so anywhere from 0.5 - 1 is good | 19:00 |
| tinwhiskers | Anything below 1 is good | 19:01 |
| l0ndoner | thankyou for your clear answers | 19:01 |
| LjL | l0ndoner, aside from the virus "eventually going away" if you're below 1, since really we don't expect this virus to "go away" completely in Italy, not before a vaccine... right now i'm hearing the Lombardy press conference (which i'll spare you) talk about "new normality" | 19:01 |
| LjL | point is, if we keep R0 at least around 1, growth is linear | 19:02 |
| LjL | if growth is linear, you can have a manageable hospital turnover | 19:02 |
| LjL | so many people get in, so many people get out, and you still have a stable number of beds you are able to provide | 19:02 |
| tinwhiskers | The "unmitigated" R is R0 and is the reproductive rate without management. R(eff) is the reproductive rate with management. | 19:02 |
| LjL | right, thanks | 19:03 |
| AyyZee | Thing is, doctors are also getting the virus and the curve of medical staff is going down. | 19:03 |
| l0ndoner | the EU appoligised to Italy today my jaw hit the ground | 19:03 |
| LjL | they also talked about R_t in this press conference but i didn't transcribe it | 19:03 |
| LjL | since he basically used it interchangeably with R0 | 19:03 |
| LjL | l0ndoner, did they? | 19:03 |
| LjL | was about time | 19:03 |
| LjL | although apologies don't heal people | 19:03 |
| Guest81946 | people are asssuming there will be a vaccine | 19:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:59 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Abbott Labs is developing a mass screening test as Trump seeks to reopen US economy → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 19:03 |
| tinwhiskers | Ah, yeah the term R0 is used a lot where it's isn't exactly right but it's become the colloquial term for "reproductive rate" | 19:04 |
| l0ndoner | head of EU appoligised for the lack of help at begining | 19:04 |
| LjL | Guest81946, it's a reasonably safe assumption. it's not a virus with intrinsically hard-to-vaccinate-against characteristics, and there are several dozens vaccine efforts already in place | 19:04 |
| l0ndoner | which country is leading the vaccine? France or Belgium? | 19:05 |
| Guest81946 | more likely will be testing theater, 'oh it has poor specificity and validity, but it's the best we have' | 19:05 |
| _io_ | it will take until the end of 2022 until something like a majority of humans have access to the vaccine. and that is optimistic. | 19:05 |
| l0ndoner | _io_: rich countries or the whole world? | 19:05 |
| Guest81946 | LjL: vs influenza? it's different? | 19:05 |
| _io_ | rich countries will mostly have it by first quarter 2022. assuming it isn't distributed more fairly such as the WHO probably prefers. | 19:06 |
| Guest81946 | vaccine development, if it works, I've heard takes 10-15 years | 19:06 |
| l0ndoner | Guest81946: believe it or not the proteins are very similar in how they tear and break away to HiV... | 19:06 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: this is being fast tracked so it's expected to only take 12-18 months | 19:07 |
| _io_ | btw what I'm saying is best case scenario. | 19:07 |
| LjL | Guest81946, yes flu is very different, flu has some magic abilities to mutate every year in a way that makes most people not recognize it, even if they have immunity against the previous year's strain | 19:07 |
| LjL | i say "magic" because i really don't know how it works genome-wise | 19:07 |
| LjL | but i am aware it's something it does that is very characteristic of flu | 19:07 |
| LjL | <26Guest8194618> vaccine development, if it works, I've heard takes 10-15 years ← normally, yes. but you can cut a lot of corners if you don't have phase 1, 2, 3 trials, preceeded by animal testing... there are already vaccines at or nearing human trials | 19:08 |
| AimHere | Lets write an opera called 'The Magic Flu' | 19:08 |
| _io_ | lol | 19:08 |
| LjL | i think a realistic estimate for having a vaccine is often quoted at 12 to 18 months, and then you have to expect at least 2 years before you have enough production to mass-vaccinate | 19:09 |
| Guest81946 | yes, well I don't believe the media, and likely there is a reason to not 'fast track' vaccines | 19:09 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: who do you believe? | 19:09 |
| LjL | and personally i'd also add... before you mass-vaccinate, maybe just vaccinate the really vulnerable people, and for the others, wait until you're PRETTY SURE the vaccine has no serious side effects | 19:09 |
| _io_ | tinwhiskers: this is what I was wondering | 19:09 |
| LjL | since "normal" trials will have been skipped or rushed through a lot | 19:09 |
| Guest81946 | tinwhiskers: professionals | 19:09 |
| LjL | Guest81946, okay, well, these things i'm saying come for professionals, not the media | 19:10 |
| Guest81946 | without conflict of interest | 19:10 |
| _io_ | trials need to be thorough. because other vaccines have been found to make things even worse. | 19:10 |
| tinwhiskers | Right, so the professionals are saying 12-18 months | 19:10 |
| Guest81946 | LjL: if you want to believe all you hear, ok | 19:10 |
| LjL | ... | 19:10 |
| Julius5 | Hello | 19:10 |
| LjL | okay then don't even be here | 19:10 |
| LjL | go wherever you can believe | 19:10 |
| LjL | hi Julius5 | 19:11 |
| _io_ | 12-18 months until a vaccine goes to manufacture, in the best case scenario. that was like a couple months ago too. they were saying that. | 19:11 |
| LjL | yes, i should have stressed that, it's a best case scenario | 19:11 |
| tinwhiskers | So basically you just believe what you want to believe and hide behind a veil of some vague selection of suitable "professionals" who happen to say what you already believe | 19:11 |
| Julius5 | I wouldn't take the vaccine | 19:11 |
| Guest81946 | apparently the virologists don't agree on various things, so, people cherry pick to fit what they choose, human nature | 19:11 |
| Guest81946 | or bias | 19:11 |
| LjL | i haven't heard a single virologist say we CAN'T have a vaccine within that timeframe | 19:12 |
| tinwhiskers | Indeed | 19:12 |
| LjL | so if you have some, show them | 19:12 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: it seems you're guilty of cherry picking yourself | 19:12 |
| Julius5 | I don't see the point of a vaccine | 19:12 |
| Guest81946 | like these antibody tests, which done poorly, and already 'approved and fast tracked' make things worse | 19:12 |
| LjL | there may definitely be virologists who are skeptical about such a timeframe. there will also be some who won't agree with rushing through phase 1/2/3 trials. there's certainly ethical dilemmas. but i haven't heard anyone saying "that's impossible". | 19:12 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: just because we can doesn't mean we will | 19:13 |
| Guest81946 | tinwhiskers: its just counter to the prevailing hope here | 19:13 |
| _io_ | autumn 2021 manufacture Ramps up. spring 2022 whoever we decide is "special" (probably just rich countries) will be vaccinated. by winter 2022 we are Maybe at ~50% homo sapiens vaccinated. this is if everyone is working together Tickety boo. | 19:13 |
| LjL | Guest81946, do you have some evidence antibody tests are making things worse? the government here isn't too happy about the regions proceeding with them on their own accord, but i have heard of no actual evidence it's being a bad thing | 19:13 |
| Guest81946 | problem wisdom goes out door when politicos get involved | 19:13 |
| Arsanerit | _io_: they can ramp up manufacture before vaccine is approved | 19:13 |
| _io_ | so I guess winter 2023 is about when we can expect herd immunity levels of vaccination. | 19:13 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, that's a platitude, but the prevailing view is that we'll be trying as hard as possible to do it | 19:14 |
| _io_ | arsenerit this is being done and it's factored into my estimate. | 19:14 |
| LjL | if you all think that's lies... i mean, go ahead | 19:14 |
| Julius5 | There will be herd immunity in a few weeks in the US even without a vaccine | 19:14 |
| Arsanerit | Julius5: how? | 19:14 |
| tinwhiskers | Julius5: no there won't | 19:14 |
| _io_ | so this is gonna be a long 3 years. and that optimistically. | 19:14 |
| Arsanerit | _io_: I've seen faster estimates than 3 years. | 19:14 |
| Guest81946 | Julius5: and another 100,000 dead in 6 months | 19:14 |
| _io_ | Arsanerit: faster estimates for what? | 19:15 |
| AimHere | Julius5, what makes you say that? only about 1/7 of the tested people right now have been tested positive | 19:15 |
| Julius5 | What do you mean by how? The coronavirus isn't that bad at all. Like a heavy flu wave maybe | 19:15 |
| Arsanerit | _io_: for when a vaccine will be widespread available | 19:15 |
| _io_ | yes and that isnt what my estimate is | 19:15 |
| LjL | _io_, that is not incompatible with the timeframe i've given, which again, is definitely a best case scenario afaik | 19:15 |
| AimHere | That's probably an upper bound on the incidence in the population | 19:15 |
| Arsanerit | Julius5: tell that to the people in mass graves in Bergamo and New York who died alone | 19:15 |
| _io_ | my estimate is for when vaccine will be widespread APPLIED. | 19:15 |
| Julius5 | AimHere, in my opinion the tests are pretty worthless since they seem to be highly inaccurate | 19:15 |
| Arsanerit | why would it take years from widespread availability to widespread application? | 19:15 |
| tinwhiskers | Herd immunity would require something in the range of 50-80% of the population to have been infected. Don't mistake flattening the curve for herd immunity. That's just wrong. | 19:16 |
| AimHere | Julius5, the coronavirus is killing 2.5k people a day; it's in the top 3 causes of death in the USA right now | 19:16 |
| Guest81946 | Julius5: you should add some emoticons :) | 19:16 |
| LjL | Julius5, i have little tolerance for the "it's a flue" viewpoint, which seems just ignorant at this point, so please at least read the link i've put in the topic that explains some of the reasons i know about for why this is NOT a flu | 19:16 |
| AimHere | That's worse than the flu | 19:16 |
| _io_ | because "widespread availability" doesn't actually mean there is enough for every human and access for every human. | 19:16 |
| Julius5 | AimHere, so far, about 28'500 died with Covid-19 in the US, but the US expects up to 62'000 deaths by flu this season | 19:17 |
| Guest81946 | it's called acute respiratory distress syndrome , | 19:17 |
| LjL | yes, vaccines, like everything, take time to produce, and have costs, that not everyone may be able to afford | 19:17 |
| _io_ | like I said, 50% vaccination by end of 2022 is possible. | 19:17 |
| Arsanerit | _io_: why does it not mean that? what then does it mean? | 19:17 |
| _io_ | 50% vaccination is considered widespread. | 19:17 |
| Arsanerit | why not 70% vaccination by end of 2021? | 19:17 |
| Julius5 | Corona is a mass panic, nothing more | 19:17 |
| AimHere | Julius5, 28500 in one month versus 62000 in a year | 19:17 |
| AimHere | Julius5, can you see the issue? | 19:17 |
| _io_ | because manufacturing processes just don't work that fast. | 19:17 |
| LjL | Julius5, so why are you complaining the deaths "so far" from this with the deaths "expected" from flu? from your own terminology it seems obvious you are comparing apples... with tiny apples that have just started maturing. | 19:17 |
| _io_ | there just isn't that level of capacity to produce vaccine. | 19:17 |
| Julius5 | AimHere, the flu season is more like half a year. And Corona is around since end of last year | 19:18 |
| LjL | 18<26Julius518> Corona is a mass panic, nothing more ← this is nonsense. | 19:18 |
| Arsanerit | _io_: then we need to produce more capacity | 19:18 |
| LjL | i don't want to hear this nonsense. | 19:18 |
| LjL | i will not allow this nonsense further. | 19:18 |
| Arsanerit | should spreading dangerous bullshit be banned in this channel? | 19:18 |
| _io_ | Arsanerit: that might be nice! | 19:18 |
| LjL | take AT LEAST a bit of time to read the link in the topic, then come back | 19:18 |
| Guest81946 | Julius5: and a mexican lager | 19:19 |
| Julius5 | LjL, it's not. If there wouldn't be a test for Corona, we wouldn't even notice anything unusual | 19:19 |
| LjL | Julius5, if you'd like, as i said, read the resources in the topic | 19:19 |
| tinwhiskers | _io_: we do manage to develop a new flu vaccine every 12-18 months and get it produced in the quantity required for mass-vaccination. | 19:19 |
| Guest81946 | Julius5: is just troll mode | 19:19 |
| AimHere | Julius5, Only one flu season a year; 62000 is at the high end of bad years for Flu | 19:19 |
| yuri[m] | COVID spreads faster than the flu so it may turn out that the number of deaths is about the same as flu deaths by the end of the year | 19:19 |
| LjL | Julius5, have a look at EuroMoMo, have a look at... there really is a lot of stuff gathered there | 19:19 |
| AimHere | And corona has only really hit the USA in the last month or so, other than a handful of cases | 19:19 |
| LjL | Julius5, take an hour or so to get familiar with some of it. i will unquiet you later, but if "it's just panic" remains your unmotivated line, this is not the place for you | 19:20 |
| _io_ | According to an NORC poll, 43 percent of adults have been vaccinated and 14 percent plan to receive the flu shot.Dec 6, 2018 | 19:20 |
| LjL | Arsanerit, so the answer to your question is ultimately yes | 19:20 |
| AimHere | I'd also expect this year to be one of the years with fewer flu deaths than normal, since the anti-Covid strategies will mostly work against Flu too | 19:20 |
| _io_ | of course flu vaccination needs to continue. | 19:20 |
| _io_ | so we cannot use all of the capacity of flu vaccination manufacturing to produce sars2 vaccine at all. | 19:21 |
| tinwhiskers | True | 19:21 |
| LjL | Julius5, your quiet is now permanent, since you decided to privately call me a "fashist" (sic) instead of reading the ample selection of articles and papers i've pointed you too | 19:22 |
| _io_ | ohmy lol | 19:22 |
| LjL | feel free to continue reading this channel if you like, but i see no useful contribution from you. | 19:22 |
| Guest81946 | LjL: so this virus is unlike 1918, 1959, 1969 etc ? | 19:22 |
| Guest81946 | despite them both causing ARDS? | 19:22 |
| Arsanerit | LjL: thanks | 19:22 |
| LjL | Guest81946, it has a number of differences, although those (especially 1918) are definitely nothing like ordinary seasonal flu, either. | 19:23 |
| LjL | Guest81946, if "it's just a flu" comparisons are made with the 1918 flu... well, it's still an apples and oranges comparison, but it should at least be specified, since obviously the 1918 flu was a HUGE, DEVASTATIC pandemic. | 19:23 |
| Guest81946 | LjL: strange they would both cause ARDS but one is influenza one is not | 19:23 |
| LjL | Guest81946, it is strange that two viruses that attack the respiratory tract cause respiratory symptoms, despite them being genetically and functionally entirely different viruses? | 19:24 |
| LjL | please elaborate. i don't understand why that is strange, at all. | 19:24 |
| tinwhiskers | Agreed. It's not strange at all. | 19:24 |
| AimHere | It's stranger when it goes the other way; the same pathogen causes different diseases, like the three forms of plague coming from the same bacterium | 19:25 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Amazon has suspended 6,000 seller accounts globally for coronavirus price gouging (10393 votes) | https://redd.it/g2elnj | 19:26 |
| Guest81946 | maybe 'strange' isn't perfect meaning, will have to look up how many known viral respiratory pandemic types that have been known | 19:26 |
| _io_ | I paid $10 each for masks and they aren't even n95 :( | 19:26 |
| _io_ | they were all I could get j was late on masks. | 19:27 |
| Guest81946 | seems to be Corona type, and Influenza type only | 19:27 |
| bin_bash | Guest81946: what do you mean | 19:27 |
| Jorge_ | you can get n95 for 5 | 19:27 |
| Jorge_ | 10 for one mask that is not even n95 | 19:27 |
| Jorge_ | is crazy expensive | 19:27 |
| _io_ | yes it is | 19:27 |
| bin_bash | wat | 19:27 |
| tinwhiskers | I paid $0 for my home made fabric mask... | 19:28 |
| _io_ | a lot of food prices are ridiculous as well. | 19:28 |
| Guest81946 | he left | 19:28 |
| livebrain | i bought a couple of n95 for 5 each | 19:28 |
| livebrain | but if you are going to use a fabric mask, using some hand made at house | 19:28 |
| livebrain | does the same | 19:28 |
| _io_ | it seems n95 is not that great because it has an exhalation valve? | 19:28 |
| Guest81946 | really it's n95 or nothing , but no one wants to explain that | 19:28 |
| bin_bash | Guest81946: i think you mean to say PPE | 19:29 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: no, that's wrong | 19:29 |
| bin_bash | because n95 is not the only nor the best | 19:29 |
| bin_bash | and again, it really depends on the use-case. | 19:29 |
| bin_bash | properly wearing an appropriate cloth mask protects others from you | 19:29 |
| Guest81946 | in the bidness, there are / were various sizes, and we had a plastic hood placed over us, to test scents for TB N95 prep | 19:29 |
| livebrain | the other day i had to got and get tested | 19:30 |
| Guest81946 | tinwhiskers: you think a non-n95 is going to block inhalation of a virus? | 19:30 |
| livebrain | i used 2 cirurgical ones | 19:30 |
| livebrain | one faced me | 19:30 |
| livebrain | and the exterior facer towards | 19:30 |
| tinwhiskers | Fabric masks do not protect the wearer very well from becoming infected but if the wearer is infected they do a good job of stopping that person infecting others | 19:30 |
| livebrain | dont believe that ppl will wear masks because they want to protect others | 19:30 |
| tinwhiskers | I'd everyone wears fabric masks they are very effective | 19:30 |
| livebrain | ppl are stupid | 19:30 |
| livebrain | they dont care about others | 19:30 |
| Guest81946 | tinwhiskers: only indirectly, | 19:30 |
| tinwhiskers | Exhalation valves give very little protection to other people | 19:31 |
| tinwhiskers | We would be better off with everyone wearing fabric masks than people using n95 masks with exhalation valves | 19:31 |
| Guest81946 | if you ask average person, why they wearing non-n95 80% don't know | 19:32 |
| yuri[m] | Masks do provide some protection for those who wear them too | 19:32 |
| LjL | Guest81946, a non-N95 is not going to *block* inhalation of a virus. but an N95 isn't going to completely block it either, there is still a *chance* it will get through. so this is all about probabilities. it seems likely at this point (based also on studies, even though some of them were rather simply conducted) that "anything is better than nothing". of course a piece of cotton won't give you a guarantee at all, while an N95 will give you something | 19:32 |
| LjL | *resembling* a guarantee... but since we just can't all get N95s, for now, even a piece of cotton appears to improve your chances somewhat. | 19:32 |
| LjL | so why not? | 19:32 |
| livebrain | if you can, use an n95 maks | 19:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 17:28 UTC: ljl-covid: Add early release paper about R0 likely being around 5.1 → https://is.gd/ZVx45J | 19:32 |
| livebrain | and dont believe that others will think of you to protect you | 19:32 |
| livebrain | by having them wear masks | 19:32 |
| yuri[m] | It's not 100% effective but wearing a mask is better than not wearing one | 19:32 |
| Guest81946 | LjL: am not debating that | 19:32 |
| LjL | there are a few reasons why not: "false security", "handling the mask being a risk itself", and others. but i think at least for some decently made masks (not just cotton strip maybe!), the benefits outweigh the indirect risks. | 19:32 |
| livebrain | i got tested because some guy was positive and working at a restaurant | 19:33 |
| livebrain | ... so... ppl are stupid and dont respect others | 19:33 |
| livebrain | so if you can, protect yourself from others | 19:33 |
| Guest81946 | my peeve is they don't expect sh*t , which causes FUD | 19:34 |
| tinwhiskers | Masks should be mandatory (even fabric masks) and masks with exhalation ports should be banned in public if we want to maximise our flattening | 19:34 |
| livebrain | and fabric made masks at 10... the ones who sell those should be in jail | 19:34 |
| _io_ | indeed | 19:35 |
| Guest81946 | tinwhiskers: yeah? why ? | 19:35 |
| tinwhiskers | Masks with exhalation ports are really only used by very selfish people who only care about themselves and not the control of the disease itself | 19:35 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: i already explained why | 19:35 |
| _io_ | valves protect the user but not the hundred people they might expose. | 19:36 |
| Guest81946 | tinwhiskers: the cloth masks | 19:36 |
| _io_ | so u could say a mask with a valve is a about 1% effective. | 19:36 |
| tinwhiskers | Cloth masks are still quite effective at stopping an infected wearer from spreading the disease | 19:36 |
| Guest81946 | tinwhiskers: again no explanation -> FUD | 19:37 |
| tinwhiskers | But not very effective at stopping a wearer becoming infected | 19:37 |
| _io_ | but he is explaining.. | 19:37 |
| Guest81946 | nope | 19:37 |
| bin_bash | Guest81946: multiple people has explained it multiple times | 19:37 |
| bin_bash | have** | 19:37 |
| bin_bash | you're just being willyfully ignorant | 19:37 |
| tinwhiskers | Fud - fear, uncertainty, doubt. I'm not doing that | 19:37 |
| LjL | 18<26tinwhiskers18> Masks with exhalation ports are really only used by very selfish people who only care about themselves and not the control of the disease itself ← well i'm sorry it's the only kind my pharmacy sold when they could grab some... | 19:38 |
| Guest81946 | bin_bash: ok whats your understanding | 19:38 |
| Guest81946 | think my point is very valid | 19:38 |
| LjL | anyway valves in those masks typically direct the airstream downwards, which is at least better than nothing for other people too | 19:38 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: that's why they should be banned in favor of fabric masks | 19:38 |
| bin_bash | i already said it above | 19:38 |
| bin_bash | 122902 <bin_bash> properly wearing an appropriate cloth mask protects others from you | 19:38 |
| Guest81946 | bin_bash: then don't waste your time | 19:38 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: yeah, they still do more than nothing | 19:38 |
| Guest81946 | bin_bash: explain why | 19:39 |
| Guest81946 | lol | 19:39 |
| livebrain | in my country they will lift restrictions for 12grades to go to school and each of thgem will be given cirurgical masks for the day they are at the school | 19:39 |
| bin_bash | ... | 19:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 17:38 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Benjamin Alvarez su Twitter: "This is how Angela Merkel explained the effect of a higher #covid19 infection rate on the country's health system. This part of today's press conf was great, so I just added English subtitels for all non-German speakers. #flattenthecurve… https://t.co/CaEBj0Ikzp" → https://is.gd/BQPFu7 | 19:39 |
| bin_bash | https://atriumhealth.org/dailydose/2020/04/06/coronavirus-why-wearing-cloth-face-masks-is-a-good-idea | 19:39 |
| bin_bash | https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/diy-cloth-face-coverings.html | 19:39 |
| Guest81946 | more teach in at less speed would produce better results imo | 19:39 |
| Guest81946 | bin_bash: forget it then, i asked u | 19:40 |
| LjL | oh god | 19:40 |
| bin_bash | forget what | 19:40 |
| bin_bash | i literally provided the source | 19:40 |
| bin_bash | don't such a retard | 19:40 |
| bin_bash | don't be** | 19:40 |
| LjL | bin_bash, you can't just go on full-insulting on people like that | 19:40 |
| Guest81946 | bin_bash: well guess you know why if you've read 'the source' | 19:40 |
| LjL | if you're right, be right, give your sources, etc | 19:40 |
| Guest81946 | my point is average person doesn't know | 19:41 |
| LjL | if after you've done that, the other person is still ignoring it... | 19:41 |
| LjL | i will at some point intervene, but it's not your call to use terms like "retard" | 19:41 |
| LjL | which are insulting not just to the person involved. | 19:41 |
| tinwhiskers | Wearing a fabric catches most large droplets and quite a lot of the smaller aerosols generated by the wearer. | 19:41 |
| Guest81946 | tinwhiskers: so if you sneeze into the fabric? or droplets during regular speech? | 19:41 |
| tinwhiskers | This means less surface contamination and less airborne particles | 19:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: both | 19:42 |
| l0ndoner | my wife just made me a face mask for work I'm so impressed .... The little things help a lot lol | 19:42 |
| livebrain | ppl dont respect others, they will touch the face, they will touch everything | 19:42 |
| livebrain | i even see some ppl wearing masks with the nose uncovered | 19:42 |
| Guest81946 | don't think most people will sneeze into the fabric, not sure if fabric will catch droplets during speech, maybe | 19:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Huh? | 19:42 |
| l0ndoner | fabric cant catch spit? | 19:43 |
| l0ndoner | why? | 19:43 |
| tinwhiskers | If you're wearing a mask you can't *not* cough into it | 19:43 |
| tinwhiskers | l0ndoner: it can | 19:43 |
| Guest81946 | do people expel droplets during regular speech? I don't know | 19:43 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: yeah, a lot | 19:43 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: try breathing on a mirror | 19:44 |
| tinwhiskers | After you've worn a mask for a while or becomes noticably damp from you breathing through it. That's the droplets you have prevented spreading | 19:44 |
| l0ndoner | I did early for some strange reason was speaking and spit flew out | 19:45 |
| Guest81946 | well the CDC initially was saying they were of no use | 19:45 |
| livebrain | they change their minds because there is not enough masks for all | 19:45 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: actually they said they provide little protection to the wearer, which is true | 19:45 |
| livebrain | so they will say cloth is fine | 19:45 |
| Guest81946 | the only answer makes any sense to me, is you reduce face touching , not droplets | 19:45 |
| livebrain | to ease the population into a sense of security | 19:45 |
| l0ndoner | so face masks is the new normal? | 19:46 |
| _io_ | I read a funny paper on the prepublication server. | 19:46 |
| blkshp | I do wonder why they haven't taken off here. I would not wear one unless I knew i was infected and HAD to go out, like fire and brimstone otherwise here i sit! | 19:46 |
| _io_ | it suggested that rubbing your eyes with Covid contaminated fingers Actually causes immunity! | 19:46 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: well you're just not thinking this through | 19:46 |
| bin_bash | https://abcnews.go.com/Health/diy-masks-protect-covid-19-smart-wear/story?id=69957443 | 19:46 |
| bin_bash | https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html#studies | 19:46 |
| _io_ | because then your immune system is exposed to the virus but your lungs aren't. | 19:46 |
| Guest81946 | tinwhiskers: me & the CDC | 19:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:42 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Abbott Labs is developing a mass screening test as Trump seeks to reopen US economy → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 19:47 |
| livebrain | _io_: not going to test that to see if it works lol | 19:47 |
| _io_ | it suggested that the high number of asymptomatic carriers are people who rubbed coronavirus in Their eyes. | 19:47 |
| _io_ | and also suggested that mouth breathing may be more hazardous than nose breathing. | 19:47 |
| blkshp | mouth breathers are usually more hazardous | 19:47 |
| _io_ | lol | 19:47 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: no the cdc are also saying wearing a fabric mask is good now | 19:48 |
| _io_ | yeah livebrain i suggest nobody rub coronavirus in Their eyes but what do I know | 19:48 |
| _io_ | anyway I'll say again | 19:48 |
| Guest81946 | tinwhiskers: point being initially, | 19:48 |
| _io_ | this was speculation, on a prepublication server. | 19:48 |
| LjL | Guest81946, you and the CDC and the WHO previously, but that doesn't automatically make them right. in fact, the italian representative from the WHO said in yesterday's press conference words that amounted pretty much to "Do you think the WHO can just say what they want? No, we are controlled by countries, and the United States is the most powerful among those, and we can't say what their CDC doesn't want us to say" | 19:48 |
| _io_ | this is by no means meant to be taken as any kind of fact. | 19:48 |
| AimHere | optically administered live virus would be a high risk and rather icky strategy | 19:48 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: my mask protects you. Your mask protects me. If we all wear masks, even fabric ones we can make an impact. | 19:48 |
| AimHere | for vaccination | 19:48 |
| LjL | Guest81946, those are not the exact words, but you can find my best attempt at translating the exact words in the topic link | 19:48 |
| Hoffman | tinwhiskers: \o/ | 19:49 |
| Guest81946 | i'm not very good with just taking opinions, explanations with data = better, which is my main point | 19:49 |
| AimHere | tinwhiskers, if your maks protects me and my mask protects you, we should swap masks. It would be more efficient! | 19:49 |
| blkshp | I guess out here in the sticks that may be why | 19:49 |
| bin_bash | Guest81946: several explanations with data have been provided. | 19:49 |
| tinwhiskers | AimHere: lol | 19:49 |
| Guest81946 | just repetitive cultural hegemony otherwise | 19:50 |
| bin_bash | lmfao AimHere | 19:50 |
| bin_bash | Guest81946: several explanations with data have been provided. multiple times. | 19:50 |
| Cyb3rPhr34k | what the webinar is about | 19:50 |
| Guest81946 | bin_bash: then you quote an actual study, done correctly, otherwise its just repetitive | 19:50 |
| Guest81946 | echo chamber | 19:50 |
| bin_bash | Guest81946: several explanations with data have been provided. multiple times. | 19:50 |
| Guest81946 | bin_bash: na man :P | 19:51 |
| bin_bash | i literally linked to 6 of them | 19:51 |
| bin_bash | https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html#studies | 19:51 |
| bin_bash | oh sorry, 7 of them | 19:51 |
| Guest81946 | bin_bash: seek 1st to understand | 19:51 |
| bin_bash | i don't think you're in a position to be making pseudo-intellectual idiomatic statements, Guest81946. | 19:51 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: regardless of what the WHO said initially they are now recommending masks. It's that not sufficient for you? Just because they previously said something else? | 19:51 |
| oxalis | A census taker once tested me.... I ate his liver with fava beans and a nice chianti | 19:52 |
| Guest81946 | well my point isn't sinking in, c'est la vie , science we were taught is you do an experiment you publish it, experts examine it, if it looks valid then you repeat the experiment, otherwise it's not science | 19:53 |
| tinwhiskers | It seems like you've adopted a stance and refuse to change your mind even in light of overwhelming advice to the contrary. | 19:53 |
| Guest81946 | but you go one quoting things you read | 19:53 |
| bin_bash | Guest81946: yes and i linked to SEVEN different studies | 19:53 |
| livebrain | i have no idea what Guest81946 is trying to proove lol | 19:53 |
| bin_bash | S E V E N | 19:53 |
| blkshp | bin_bash: have you had too much sugar ;) | 19:54 |
| bin_bash | no way I haven't had any sugar | 19:54 |
| Cyb3rPhr34k | haha the ego clash is here | 19:54 |
| Cyb3rPhr34k | is there any conspiracies here? | 19:54 |
| blkshp | bin_bash: s/sugar/caffeine | 19:54 |
| _io_ | I actually believe that wearing a cloth mask protects me somewhat. | 19:54 |
| _io_ | not fully | 19:54 |
| bin_bash | i have had a bit of caffeine... | 19:55 |
| Guest81946 | from touching your face, probably nothing more | 19:55 |
| _io_ | but I think it is common sense that it would prevent me from inhaling others droplets somewhat. | 19:55 |
| tinwhiskers | _io_: yes, a little, but that's not the main value of a fabric mask | 19:55 |
| tinwhiskers | The main value is to stop you infecting others | 19:55 |
| _io_ | I honestly don't trust what the governments or WHO Says about masks anymore. because they were so obviously and dreadfully wrong in the first place | 19:56 |
| _io_ | and medical authorities were telling the same disinformation. | 19:56 |
| Guest81946 | I saw some video of south korea, what did I recognize? all the general public was wearing N-95 masks , not cloth | 19:56 |
| _io_ | so I admit I'm relying on my intuition and "common sense" here. | 19:56 |
| AimHere | Scientists change their opinions when the known facts change | 19:56 |
| Hoffman | it doesnt hurt to wear one versus wearin nothin | 19:56 |
| derpadmin | _io_ : they prevented a panic buying of mask to keep it for the healthcare workers... | 19:56 |
| Hoffman | and nowadays nobody will give you a weird look, so | 19:56 |
| Guest81946 | it's cloth because of govt ineptitude | 19:56 |
| _io_ | but yeah I'm pretty sure the masks help the wearer too. | 19:56 |
| Hoffman | a little bit. | 19:57 |
| livebrain | here doctors kinda said the samething since the beginning about masks | 19:57 |
| _io_ | derpadmin: if the trust of common people was the cost of that move, it was a mistake. | 19:57 |
| Hoffman | https://www.researchgate.net/publication/258525804_Testing_the_Efficacy_of_Homemade_Masks_Would_They_Protect_in_an_Influenza_Pandemic#pf7 | 19:57 |
| livebrain | the problem is that they werent enough for everyone | 19:57 |
| LjL | Guest81946, i have not entirely followed now so i'm not sure WHAT people have provided exactly, but in the usual link in the topic, there are at least a couple of studies specifically about masks, and the efficacy of various types (including DIY), and also the appropriateness of re-using them after various types of cleaning | 19:57 |
| livebrain | so they discouraged ppl to go and buy masks because they were needed for hospitals | 19:57 |
| tinwhiskers | Masks are and always have been effective. The way some people use them makes them less effective to the point of having very little value in some cases. Added to that the shortage of masks available to health workers and you have the reason why the WHO recommended against using them. | 19:57 |
| LjL | those are studies. they may not be the *best conducted studies ever*, because they were rushed, for obvious reasons. | 19:57 |
| Hoffman | materials research | 19:57 |
| Hoffman | for improvised masks | 19:57 |
| derpadmin | _io_ : I somewhat agree, but then again, if you cannot rely on common sense of people for not panic buying, what is the alternative? | 19:58 |
| LjL | but they are data from scientists who tried and saw what happened, which seems to be what you're after. | 19:58 |
| LjL | i will try to add more of them. | 19:58 |
| Hoffman | look, the CDC could say "hey, masks help, but dont buy them because healthcare workers need them", but let's be honest, Americans would ignore the hell out of that and panic buy them all | 19:58 |
| _io_ | yeah derp I do see that. | 19:58 |
| derpadmin | Hoffman : this | 19:58 |
| LjL | Hoffman, but americans panic bought them anyway. and not just americans really. | 19:58 |
| Hoffman | at the same time, we had like a month during which we could have ramped up production in the US but chose not to | 19:58 |
| Hoffman | LjL: just to a lesser degree | 19:59 |
| Hoffman | but yeah | 19:59 |
| derpadmin | Hoffman : it was a democrat hoax back then no need for masks... | 19:59 |
| livebrain | even before we had one confirmed case, masks were sold out | 19:59 |
| LjL | Hoffman, i think it's very bad to lie about the real reason just because you want healthcare workers to have priority. that's a noble goal, but 1) they won't get that priority anyway, and 2) people will eventually understand you lied, and stop trusting you on anything at all | 19:59 |
| livebrain | chinese ppl were mass buying them to ship them to china | 19:59 |
| Hoffman | livebrain: I saw plenty of PPE on amazon | 19:59 |
| Hoffman | 3m 6000 series half facepiece and full facepiece respirators | 19:59 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: agreed | 20:00 |
| LjL | livebrain, yes, that's one reason why they were completely out of stock here before the epidemic even started, and lying or not lying to people changed nothing on that | 20:00 |
| Hoffman | had a 3m FFP respirator in my cart for a while | 20:00 |
| oxalis | fewer Americans would have bought the masks if they were told that they were helpful.... Because of oppositional behavoir | 20:00 |
| Hoffman | decided against it | 20:00 |
| livebrain | most ppl in my country dont buy from amazon | 20:00 |
| Hoffman | LjL: you are now being informed that is not the case | 20:00 |
| Hoffman | LjL: what you saw was "some" mask PPE was sold out | 20:00 |
| livebrain | and they sold out local markets to ship them to china | 20:00 |
| livebrain | i use alcohol for cleaning boards (soldering) and even alcohol was sold out | 20:00 |
| Hoffman | there was also some mask PPE that was not sold out | 20:00 |
| Hoffman | but since you didn't see the non-sold-out stuff, you made the reasonable conclusion that there was none | 20:01 |
| livebrain | way before our 1st confirmed case | 20:01 |
| LjL | Hoffman, well, it's true, i cannot *prove* that it would have happened to the same extent without the lying. can you prove it wouldn't? aside from "informing" me? because ultimately these are political decisions, unless there's some thorough sociological study done on this in a scientific manner | 20:01 |
| Hoffman | LjL: I can tell you what I already did: that while there were cases in the US, after the CDC said no masks were necessary, mask PPE was not sold out | 20:01 |
| Albright | Just got an email from "Tedros Adhanom" inviting me to contribute to the fight against COVID-19 by sending Bitcoin to a certain address. Seems legit. | 20:02 |
| LjL | it's also an ethical thing: the end doesn't justify the means in this case, and i am okay with having that as a strong ethical opinion. | 20:02 |
| Hoffman | LjL: that is a valid argument and I partially agree | 20:02 |
| Hoffman | at the same time, "the end" meant that doctors were more able to get PPE to treat people | 20:02 |
| derpadmin | I think that unfortunately, it was the right decision to lie, I am way less exposed when doing my grocery once a week than a healthcare worker in a covid-19 unit... | 20:02 |
| Hoffman | and doctors get more use out of them than ordinary peeps | 20:02 |
| Hoffman | and it's also a force multiplier for doctors; one mask might keep one non-doctor from getting sick, but on a doctor, it could keep several people from dying | 20:03 |
| livebrain | alot of ppl still work | 20:03 |
| livebrain | even under lockdown | 20:03 |
| livebrain | if masks are not available | 20:03 |
| blkshp | o/ | 20:03 |
| Hoffman | so, if your moral philosophy is utilitarian, the end does justify the means | 20:03 |
| LjL | Hoffman, i am not convinced of that, but i acknowledge i cannot show otherwise, and you can at least point me to something that hints otherwise. what about my second point, though? "collateral damage" does happen, i'm sure... at least i know of ONE person who will no longer trust those institutions: myself. is it too much to assume many others will think similarly? | 20:03 |
| Hoffman | if not, it might not | 20:03 |
| livebrain | countries will continue to have alot of cases | 20:03 |
| livebrain | so masks should be for all | 20:03 |
| livebrain | not just for hospitals | 20:03 |
| Hoffman | LjL: can you shorten your lines | 20:03 |
| Hoffman | which of the things do you want me to respond to first | 20:03 |
| LjL | i... i am very used to people being encouraged to write *longer* lines on IRC instead of repeatedly hitting Enter. | 20:04 |
| blkshp | no, keep lines long, Hoffman, answer in order and in one line! | 20:04 |
| livebrain | because masks at hospitals = medical staff is protected but that doesnt limit the number of new infectad cases | 20:04 |
| blkshp | :D | 20:04 |
| Hoffman | LjL: people distrusting medical doctors for medical advice is generally a matter of darwinianism imo. | 20:04 |
| LjL | Hoffman, there is only one question in my message, anyway. what about the second point, is it safe enough to assume that many people with think like me i.e. stop trusting things institutions like the WHO say? | 20:04 |
| Hoffman | it's a problem that eventually solves itself | 20:04 |
| Hoffman | unfortunately thats not the case for a lot of other distrust of "experts" | 20:04 |
| LjL | Hoffman, so, not trusting someone after they LIED to me... that makes me a "darwinian" dead end? do you mean that? | 20:05 |
| Hoffman | LjL: your distrust of the CDC, in my opinion, is not as important as doctors getting more PPE | 20:05 |
| livebrain | we all were treated just like numbers, mere pawns ... | 20:05 |
| Hoffman | LjL: and what I mean is what I said | 20:05 |
| livebrain | we were treeated as discarded objects | 20:05 |
| derpadmin | I agree with Hoffman | 20:06 |
| Hoffman | LjL: I am known to be curt and brusque (sp?) so I apologize if I am causing you to feel insulted by this | 20:06 |
| tinwhiskers | We could have simply made laws that said n95 is reserved for medical staff. You will be fined for wearing those. Wear a fabric mask. And then, no lies. | 20:06 |
| LjL | Hoffman, my distrust of the CDC, if many other people end up having the same distrust, will inevitably result in all those people not respecting measures that the government imposes (presumably with active from the WHO, CDC, etc), if we don't personally think those measures make sense, and we suspect they are based on lies. will that somehow not backfire? | 20:06 |
| derpadmin | and I have the feeling you are in the US livebrain, and if so I agree with you as well | 20:06 |
| livebrain | tinwhiskers: that makes no sense | 20:06 |
| livebrain | logic wise | 20:06 |
| Hoffman | but I am a really (not strictly) utilitarian moral thinker | 20:06 |
| LjL | with advice* | 20:06 |
| livebrain | it would be more helpfull to protect ppl with masks | 20:06 |
| livebrain | than the medical staff | 20:07 |
| tinwhiskers | livebrain: in what way does it make no sense? | 20:07 |
| Hoffman | tinwhiskers: who would have mode those laws | 20:07 |
| Hoffman | made* | 20:07 |
| livebrain | numbers wise, non-medical ppl are alot more | 20:07 |
| yuri[m] | There are some valid reasons to not trust the US CDC, like saying people shouldn't wear face-masks due to shortages. That's the actual reason they said they "don't work"; they wanted health personell to have enough | 20:07 |
| Hoffman | LjL: you can only really speak for yourself | 20:07 |
| livebrain | so controling the spread of the virus it would be more helpfull | 20:07 |
| livebrain | than just protecting the hospitals | 20:07 |
| LjL | yuri[m], yes that's what i've been saying, but it's my whole debate with Hoffman above | 20:07 |
| yuri[m] | As for the WHO, they have discredited themselves so bad on their own only sleeping people would trust them | 20:07 |
| Hoffman | LjL: if you and 1 other person distrust the CDC, I can say the two of you distrusting the CDC is less important than 2 medical professionals getting proper PPE | 20:07 |
| tinwhiskers | livebrain: have you missed the entire point of the fabric mask conversation? | 20:07 |
| livebrain | we protect medical staff... but then you still have 2000 deaths per day in the USA | 20:08 |
| Hoffman | livebrain: a doctor getting sick is "worth" multiple non-doctors getting suck | 20:08 |
| Hoffman | sick | 20:08 |
| Hoffman | because if all the doctors are sick, EVERYONE who needs medical care dies | 20:08 |
| Guest81946 | hard to trust anything US says, with King Orange in charge imo | 20:09 |
| LjL | Hoffman, agreed. i was making an *assumption* that many people will think the same, and that assumption may prove flawed... however, it seems natural to me that after a lie is exposed, the liar will no longer be trusted by a broad section of the public at least. if you think that's not the case... fine, i don't have evidence on that. it just seemed to me like a rather safe assumption to make. | 20:09 |
| Guest81946 | US via CDC | 20:09 |
| livebrain | if you protect everyone | 20:09 |
| tinwhiskers | If we can make laws to limit social gatherings, and all the other rules we've put in place we can also make laws around masks. Several countries have made it compulsory to wear masks in public. | 20:09 |
| yuri[m] | Hoffman: The CDC could have told the truth, said that it is more important that medical professionals get the masks and people would have understood. Instead hey dishonored themselves by lying. | 20:09 |
| livebrain | with masks, there would be no need for medical staff | 20:09 |
| derpadmin | livebrain : the US sleept in the beginning, this is why the death tool is so high | 20:09 |
| derpadmin | livebrain : not enough masks | 20:09 |
| Hoffman | yuri[m]: "people would have understood" is hilarious to me | 20:09 |
| Hoffman | yuri[m]: from the very beginning, the WHO said that medical professionals needed masks | 20:10 |
| Hoffman | did that stop non-medical professionals from buying them? | 20:10 |
| Hoffman | no, they didnt care! | 20:10 |
| Hoffman | they wanted them for ME ME ME | 20:10 |
| Guest81946 | what was oct 2019 event 201 all about, if not preparation by billgates | 20:10 |
| derpadmin | yuri[m] : I disagree with the "people would have understood" part | 20:10 |
| l0ndoner | I saw on the news southern US gunmen on the steps of the governors office demonstrating to get back to work... With semi auto rifles and no distancing I was like wow | 20:10 |
| tinwhiskers | livebrain: yeah, not enough masks so you need to use fabric masks, which are not perfect, so there will be cases and the health staff need the good masks | 20:10 |
| Hoffman | in the land of ME ME ME, ME is king | 20:10 |
| livebrain | now all we see is online retailers selling masks overpriced | 20:11 |
| yuri[m] | Hoffman: I never heard the WHO said that, but I did see them lie and say a) covid doesn't have human to human transmission b) masks do not work b) taiwan is a part of China | 20:11 |
| livebrain | there are more masks than we believe | 20:11 |
| Hoffman | yuri[m]: I did | 20:11 |
| Hoffman | yet people still bought them, despite being non medical professionals | 20:11 |
| AimHere | <Guest81946> what was oct 2019 event 201 all about, if not preparation by billgates <- Disaster relief and military agencies conduct exercises all the time. It's how they train for actual disasters and actual wars. | 20:11 |
| livebrain | and for a business whats the problem really to produce thousands of masks a day ? | 20:12 |
| tinwhiskers | yuri[m]: they had to say that about Taiwan to maintain a presence in China, which was extremely important so that was a necessary evil. | 20:12 |
| LjL | <Guest81946> what was oct 2019 event 201 all about, if not preparation by billgates ← what is this? i have no idea what you're saying | 20:12 |
| Guest81946 | AimHere: i thought it was pandemic preparation exclusively | 20:12 |
| derpadmin | livebrain : more masks than we believe : source plz | 20:12 |
| l0ndoner | my wife just made me a mask for work --- >>> https://ibb.co/tpqqj3X | 20:12 |
| Hoffman | yuri[m]: I admittedly may have been thinking of the CDC instead of the WHO, or possibly both | 20:12 |
| livebrain | derpadmin: a store in my country has more than 100 000 masks in stock | 20:12 |
| livebrain | selling them for 1 euro each (Cirurgical masks) | 20:12 |
| livebrain | and thousands of n95 masks | 20:12 |
| livebrain | you buy it today, you get it tomorrow (if portugal) | 20:13 |
| AimHere | Guest81946, that's because this was agencies relating to pandemics doing the exercise. | 20:13 |
| Hoffman | I'm more frustrated that the US federal government chose not to ramp up mask production via the DPA during the entire month of february or january | 20:13 |
| tinwhiskers | Hoffman: yeah | 20:13 |
| derpadmin | Hoffman : yeah | 20:13 |
| livebrain | and a factory would produce masks by the hundreds or thousands per day | 20:13 |
| Hoffman | had they, a lot of this discussion might be moot | 20:13 |
| Hoffman | if you properly prepare to protect doctors, you dont need to lie to do so | 20:13 |
| yuri[m] | Hoffman: I didn't see anyone from the CDC or the White House admit they don't want people to wear masks until after an interview with a Korean doctor pointing that out went viral | 20:13 |
| Guest81946 | Hoffman: the king has doctor skillz | 20:14 |
| LjL | Guest81946, what does THAT mean either? you're making a few remarks that make no sense to me | 20:14 |
| Hoffman | yuri[m]: Im referring to announcements that doctors need PPE | 20:14 |
| Hoffman | that didnt stop people from buying them | 20:14 |
| Hoffman | because those people didnt care | 20:14 |
| LjL | this is a place for debate and advice and support and stuff, not for making cryptic snide remarks | 20:15 |
| Hoffman | I bet right now, if a wal mart had PPE, some folks would try to buy it | 20:15 |
| livebrain | its not "normal" ppl like you and me | 20:15 |
| livebrain | its mass hording ppl | 20:15 |
| Hoffman | luckily others might do the right thing and alert a hospital | 20:15 |
| Hoffman | or the manager | 20:15 |
| livebrain | that buy to resell them later | 20:15 |
| livebrain | thats the problem | 20:15 |
| livebrain | a normal person buy 10 n95 masks | 20:15 |
| mefistofeles | yes, that has happened and it is a problem in some places, but not overall a global thing | 20:15 |
| livebrain | a mass buyr will buy everything | 20:15 |
| livebrain | 3m company was making masks in the millions | 20:16 |
| livebrain | and yet they are sold out | 20:16 |
| Guest81946 | LjL: are you an op here, if not just /ignore me | 20:16 |
| livebrain | how is that possible ? | 20:16 |
| livebrain | there arent that many doctors around | 20:16 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: we'd rather you were less ignorant but, yes he is an op | 20:17 |
| livebrain | because now we see online sellers with HUGE stocks | 20:17 |
| Hoffman | livebrain: normal medical professional protocol is to dispose of the mask when you leave a room that has a positive patient in it | 20:17 |
| LjL | livebrain, to be fair even if you buy just 10, which is theoretically only good for going out 10 times at best (at least before the various studies on re-use came out), that would have been enough to cause a global shortage and doctors not getting them. but personally, i'm going to blame governments for not reserving a portion of the supply, and even more so for relying on foreign production of these key things entirely, than on people just.. buying them, | 20:17 |
| LjL | because they're scared, very understandably. | 20:17 |
| Hoffman | livebrain: now that there's a shortage, they have to keep 1 mask for up to a 24 hour shift | 20:17 |
| LjL | Guest81946, yes, i am an op here. | 20:17 |
| Guest81946 | tinwhiskers: ain't gonna fight with choo , have a good day | 20:17 |
| Hoffman | taking it off, putitng it into a bag without touching | 20:17 |
| Hoffman | worrying that handling it to put it on and take it off repeatedly will infect them | 20:17 |
| Guest81946 | LjL: aren't listed as an op, but maybe thats just as well | 20:18 |
| livebrain | how many doctors does italy have ? | 20:18 |
| livebrain | to handle covid-19 | 20:18 |
| Guest81946 | cloth masks are pretty useless , not ignorant at all | 20:18 |
| livebrain | if they have 10 n95 on a 10hour shift (1 mask per shift) | 20:18 |
| livebrain | thats 10 masks a day for one doctor | 20:18 |
| Hoffman | ragequit | 20:19 |
| LjL | well it would have been ragequiet soon anyway | 20:19 |
| tinwhiskers | Guest81946: again... Not very good for stopping *you* getting infected but quite good at stopping you infecting *others*. | 20:19 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh | 20:19 |
| LjL | matter of fact | 20:19 |
| Hoffman | yuri[m]: also I should not have laughed at you earlier, sorry | 20:19 |
| Hoffman | or what you said | 20:19 |
| _io_ | I think they're better at stopping me from getting infected than is being estimated But even if you don't, you should probably tell people they are! | 20:19 |
| livebrain | the first link i got | 20:20 |
| l0ndoner | Trump said people stealing masks from NY hospitals because its not possible to through so many masks in a week | 20:20 |
| _io_ | because hey, it makes us feel better! AND wear masks, which is better for everyone. | 20:20 |
| tinwhiskers | _io_: I disagree | 20:20 |
| livebrain | it says that theres 50 millions n95 masks being made every month in the USA | 20:20 |
| tinwhiskers | _io_: we want people to realise that this is about protecting others in our community and not just thinking of ourselves | 20:20 |
| LjL | livebrain, i don't know how many doctors in italy are currently involved in covid-19 patient handling, it's not a figure they give as part of the weekly things, but i suppose i can figure out somewhere | 20:21 |
| livebrain | 3m is making 100 million per month | 20:21 |
| tinwhiskers | We want people to realise that if the community protects it's members then you are also protected | 20:21 |
| LjL | livebrain, and to clarify, my remark about PPE stock being all made abroad was with Italy in mind, i can make no claims about that wrt the US | 20:21 |
| derpadmin | l0ndoner : Trump : enough said | 20:22 |
| Hoffman | l0ndoner: he doesnt understand how they use masks | 20:22 |
| livebrain | so if they make masks in the 100 millions range now | 20:22 |
| livebrain | if they try to reach for more | 20:22 |
| Hoffman | l0ndoner: he probably thinks 1 doctor only needs 1 mask forever | 20:22 |
| livebrain | they will go upwards the billions masks | 20:22 |
| davros | how much does the tooling for mask manufacture cost? | 20:23 |
| LjL | incidentally, since i'm looking at the weekly Italy reports, the median age of cases is now 62. it was 63 before, and i believe it was 64 before that, and i even remember the early press conferences saying 65. fwiw. | 20:23 |
| livebrain | i dont know about your countries, but in mine theres a boom of online sellers for masks and alcohol | 20:23 |
| LjL | livebrain, on a partly related note, i can say based on the weekly reports that about 10% of COVID-19 patients are healthcare workers in Italy. not sure if that lets you extrapolate how many healthcare workers are working on this. | 20:24 |
| _abc_ | I fail to understand why the local PPE factories were not restarted. | 20:24 |
| derpadmin | livebrain : it happened in canada a long time ago... I decided against buying masks... even if I know they work | 20:24 |
| _abc_ | Here in .ro some things were restarted, masks and PPE suits are being manufactured for local use only. | 20:24 |
| derpadmin | I stay home, wash my hands | 20:24 |
| livebrain | i wanted to stay home , but because i work for myself the states doesnt help me in any way :X | 20:25 |
| davros | the masks in particular.. whats the process to make them | 20:25 |
| _abc_ | Also prices for cleaning substances, PPE, medical supplies were hard locked to the level at which they were when the lockdown was initiated. | 20:25 |
| livebrain | but i have been quarantined for the last week because im waiting for the covid-19 test result | 20:25 |
| _abc_ | davros: there are machines making masks on youtube, go look | 20:25 |
| livebrain | but this is not sustainable for me | 20:25 |
| _abc_ | davros: 3 rolls of special fabric and one roll of elastic thread are used. The rest is a machine. | 20:26 |
| Hoffman | livebrain: self-employed people can apply for assistance in the US | 20:26 |
| _abc_ | davros: it works continuously 24/7 if necessary. Keep the power on and the rolls of material supplied. | 20:26 |
| davros | i'd guess there's some process behind making the special fabric aswell, right? | 20:27 |
| derpadmin | livebrain : people like me who stay home help people like you that need to go out | 20:27 |
| davros | some of these masks are statically charged? | 20:27 |
| Hoffman | livebrain: please look into it | 20:27 |
| _abc_ | davros: yes but it is not that special. It is another machine. | 20:27 |
| livebrain | i made a change in my life 1 year ago, so i started to work for myuself less than 1 year, and those who work for themselfs less than one year (like me) have no help | 20:27 |
| livebrain | if i worked formyself 1 year and 2 months i would have the help | 20:27 |
| derpadmin | Hoffman : Portugal he said | 20:27 |
| Hoffman | derpadmin: oh I thought he said "the states" | 20:28 |
| livebrain | <- portugal :) | 20:28 |
| _abc_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W0OywjRNQQ davros yes some are charged but that is a characteristic of the special fabric, nothing special the machine does | 20:28 |
| livebrain | LjL: the typing small sentences followed by (enter) is an habbit ;P | 20:28 |
| _abc_ | davros: that is a low end machine somewhere in Bangladesh or India. A high end one will be 5 times faster and look much nicer | 20:28 |
| livebrain | but in my case the test was not needed, i just had tonsilitis, i feel that im being a burden to the health system actually | 20:30 |
| LjL | livebrain, yeah it's also a habit for me to do otherwise, although it varies a fair bit depending on circumstances... but i was "raised" in channels where excess Enter was discouraged for readability reasons | 20:30 |
| davros | wow thats cool | 20:30 |
| _abc_ | davros: that has the elastics sewed on manually later. The next film has an automatic machine which does everything | 20:30 |
| LjL | _abc_, yikes, those machines look so dirty. i hope it's mostly an impression and the parts that "matter" are not... or that they get very thoroughly sanitized as a last step! | 20:31 |
| _abc_ | LjL: any dirt you see there will be light oil and drust as in every place that works with fabric and thread. | 20:32 |
| LjL | _abc_, are the flashes of light in the second video an ultra-short but ultra-powerful flash of UV, or something? | 20:32 |
| _abc_ | I do not know. | 20:32 |
| LjL | _abc_, well the second video does look a lot cleaner though | 20:33 |
| davros | visual inspection | 20:33 |
| davros | i think it's machine vision testing of the product | 20:33 |
| _abc_ | The second video has a counter in some frame. It shows 100 or so /minute. | 20:33 |
| davros | you can see it taking photos and analyzing | 20:33 |
| davros | some sort of QA built into it | 20:33 |
| LjL | davros, oh | 20:33 |
| davros | these machines are awesome | 20:35 |
| LjL | livebrain, turns out i apparently have no idea where/how to find out how many healthcare operators are engaged with COVID patients in italy | 20:35 |
| _abc_ | There is nothing special about them. Very similar to machines which sew handkerchiefs, towels etc. | 20:35 |
| _abc_ | LjL: assume all are. | 20:36 |
| LjL | well, i don't know how many they are in total, either | 20:36 |
| LjL | i can easily find numbers on how many of them have tested positive, but afaik many weren't getting tested until recently | 20:36 |
| _abc_ | I don't know either but I'd guess the Italian health worker's syndicates have some numbers wrt membership | 20:36 |
| LjL | many new doctors have been hired, fresh from university, and others were asked to get out of retirement and work again | 20:37 |
| LjL | so i cannot rely on "historical" numbers either | 20:37 |
| _abc_ | How long does that fugly thing resist on plastic packaging again? 4 days? 8? | 20:37 |
| davros | at least 3 | 20:37 |
| _abc_ | LjL: the historical numbers will tell you a lower bound | 20:37 |
| LjL | i think it's useless to think of a very specific number of days even if studies do provide one... but i'm afraid plastic was among the places where the virus seemed to be surviving better | 20:38 |
| LjL | Healthcare spending in Italy accounted for 9.2% of GDP in 2012 (about $3,200 per capita),[1] slightly lower than the average of 9.3% in OECD countries.[2] About 77% of the spending is public. | 20:39 |
| LjL | In 2000, Italy's healthcare system was regarded, by World Health Organization's ranking, as the 2nd best in the world after France,[3] and according to the World Health Organization, Italy has the world's 6th highest life expectancy.[4] The life expectancy at birth in Italy was 82.3 years in 2012, which is over two years above the OECD average.[2] | 20:39 |
| LjL | i suspect none of this will still hold true "afterwards"... | 20:39 |
| LjL | an easy thing to suspect | 20:39 |
| Hoffman | that long life expectancy is why they had so many deaths | 20:39 |
| Hoffman | old people get hit hard | 20:39 |
| _abc_ | 10% of the dead are young people with no preceding history. | 20:40 |
| _abc_ | +Medical | 20:41 |
| davros | it could also mutate | 20:41 |
| davros | people should not be getting complacent over this idea "It only kills old people" | 20:41 |
| _abc_ | yes and the more it spends in people already sick the more likely that gets. | 20:42 |
| LjL | Hoffman, i think that only partly explains it. the life expectancy isn't dramatically higher than many neighbors. | 20:42 |
| LjL | davros, well, i am certainly not complacent as i don't find that good news | 20:42 |
| underscore_ | Good evening. | 20:42 |
| LjL | hi underscore_ | 20:42 |
| davros | LjL i see this frequently in arguments against the lockdowns | 20:42 |
| davros | "look it's only killing peopel who would die anyway.." | 20:42 |
| LjL | davros, yeah. well, we'll all die anyway. but people who think like that, i just... | 20:43 |
| davros | yeah | 20:43 |
| davros | what happens when you get to that ag | 20:43 |
| davros | age^ | 20:43 |
| Hoffman | LjL: agreed | 20:43 |
| LjL | %tr Numeri indice della dinamica del personale medico, infermieristico e di supporto (2010=100) | 20:43 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: Index numbers of the dynamics of medical, nursing and support staff (2010 = 100) (MyMemory, Google) — You number index of the dynamics of the medical staff, *infermieristico and of *supporto (2010=100) (Apertium) | 20:44 |
| LjL | despite speaking natively italian i have NO idea what that means | 20:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 18:39 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Francia → https://is.gd/kUL8xl | 20:44 |
| LjL | anyway https://www.infodata.ilsole24ore.com/2018/12/14/sempre-meno-infermieri-e-operatori-sanitari-tutti-i-dati-regione-per-regione/ has a lot of numbers about healthcare operators in italy, but ending in 2016 | 20:44 |
| LjL | an article from 2020 says Italy is very much below OSCE average in number of nurses per capita | 20:45 |
| LjL | https://www.truenumbers.it/infermieri-italia/ | 20:45 |
| _abc_ | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zrs4MYgMBc | 20:46 |
| Arsanerit | when will we have reliable antibody tests? | 20:48 |
| Arsanerit | with the test&trace that China & South Korea do, are those swab tests or antibody tests? | 20:48 |
| LjL | more commonly swabs | 20:48 |
| LjL | we probably already "have" reliable antibody tests, but there are so many around, the hard job is figuring out which ones are the reliable ones | 20:49 |
| _abc_ | UK said they do not yet have a reliable deployed antibody test but there is a company in UK which makes HIV tests already which claims to have that. | 20:49 |
| genera | and cheap | 20:49 |
| livebrain | isnt it too early to test for antibody ? | 20:49 |
| _abc_ | So who "has" what is debatable. Because as usual the main government outlets are falling over each other with unsustainable "information". | 20:49 |
| _abc_ | In Italy it may be lateish from what I read. | 20:50 |
| davros | i was about to say "when will we have reliable antibodies.." | 20:50 |
| LjL | they keep talking about having antibody testing within the next few days in Italy | 20:50 |
| LjL | and it's always within the next few days | 20:50 |
| LjL | actually, i think lately they are not even using that phrasing anymore. they just say it will be needed to "enter phase 2" | 20:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Abbott Labs is developing a mass screening test as Trump seeks to reopen US economy → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 20:51 |
| LjL | but some *regions* in italy are already doing antibody testing, using tests that the central government organs have not validated | 20:51 |
| LjL | part of this mess in Italy is from the healthcare system being heavily regionalized, even though italy isn't even a federal country | 20:52 |
| _abc_ | davros: you asked about the fabric https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZYVaokFBzc with electrostatic characteristics. | 20:52 |
| _abc_ | 1 ton of BF99 99% filter non woven fabric makes 700,000 N95/N99 masks | 20:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 18:56 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Statistica → https://is.gd/F3UXWE | 20:58 |
| LjL | that video you linked... youtube "warns" | 20:59 |
| LjL | "CGTN is funded in whole or in part by the Chinese government." | 20:59 |
| LjL | and links to its Wikipedia article | 20:59 |
| LjL | is this something new Youtube is doing for videos produced by things owned by China? | 20:59 |
| nixonix | https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/15/europe/italy-coronavirus-antibody-plasma-treatment-intl/index.html | 21:04 |
| nixonix | it has also about italy's development of serological test | 21:04 |
| nixonix | %title | 21:04 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From edition.cnn.com: Italy aims to turn suffering to advantage with experimental Covid-19 treatment - CNN | 21:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:01 UTC: For essential retail workers, the need for mental health care may outlast coronavirus pandemic: Major retailers, psychologists and the nation's top grocery worker union say they anticipate a heightened need for therapy and other services, as people cope with the aftermath of the pandemic. → https://is.gd/Fn23Se | 21:06 |
| LjL | nixonix, yeah, it has been mentioned sometimes that good antibody tests are also sort of important to target plasma treatment correctly | 21:06 |
| LjL | i don't know much about plasma treatments, like... how are "foreign" antibodies not going to wreak havoc with your body, mostly, instead or in addition to killing some virions? | 21:07 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Navy may reinstate fired captain who asked for help with coronavirus outbreak: report (10006 votes) | https://redd.it/g258r3 | 21:08 |
| _abc_ | nice for the captain | 21:09 |
| Urchin | maybe they were worried he'd become the president like Theodore Roosevelt | 21:10 |
| nixonix | that would be cool. usually when somebody is fired, they will never be taken back, even if it wasnt justified. but maybe just this time, they will in an unlikely move... | 21:11 |
| LjL | unlikely things are happening | 21:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus updates: Abbott Labs developing mass screening test as Trump seeks to reopen US economy → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 21:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 19:13 UTC: /u/slakmehl: Governor Mike DeWine su Twitter: "I am an optimist and am confident that Ohioans will also live up to the challenge of doing things differently as we open back up beginning on May 1st." → https://is.gd/WvMTsu | 21:20 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: apparently provided you get the right ABO plasma type, there's no negative effects of the plasma (aside from possible other viruses in the plasma like hiv, hep, syphilis, but the serious, known ones are screened for). It's just the same as being given plasma during surgery of course. | 21:21 |
| Hoffman | ^ | 21:22 |
| Hoffman | they have antibody tests youll have to take like normal | 21:22 |
| Hoffman | you would have to take* | 21:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:19 UTC: For essential retail workers, the need for mental health care may outlast coronavirus pandemic: Major retailers, psychologists and the nation's top grocery worker union say they anticipate a heightened need for therapy and other services, as people cope with the aftermath of the pandemic. → https://is.gd/Fn23Se | 21:27 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, Hoffman: well i assume it's reasonably safe if they do it, but i just don't understand the mechanism. normal plasma for blood transfusions i'd have assumed was free of antibodies, because what i know about antibodies is they attack whatever does not look like one's own cells. it may be a very rough way of describing it but if your antibodies attack foreign organs, hence organ transplant recipients needing lifelong immunosuppressants, why | 21:30 |
| LjL | wouldn't someone else's blood antibodies attack yours? | 21:30 |
| Hoffman | LjL: you know how some folks have different blood types? | 21:32 |
| LjL | yes | 21:32 |
| Hoffman | LjL: well, it gets more specific than that | 21:33 |
| Hoffman | specific antibodies are assessed | 21:33 |
| LjL | ah | 21:33 |
| Hoffman | and the donor and donee must avoid clashes before the transfusion is done | 21:33 |
| LjL | i thought it was basically just an ABO type and Rh match | 21:33 |
| tinwhiskers | I thought it was too | 21:33 |
| LjL | i mean, in normal transfusions | 21:33 |
| Hoffman | iirc the type of scrutiny depends on the procedure | 21:33 |
| Hoffman | like kidney donation requires it | 21:33 |
| Hoffman | at this point im out of my depth and cant continue much further | 21:34 |
| tinwhiskers | Antibodies are assessed further in organ donations though | 21:34 |
| Hoffman | and would be googling | 21:34 |
| Hoffman | I dont mean blood donation goes further than a type match, I mean assessment of blood can go further than just type | 21:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 19:31 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Fauci → https://is.gd/Wf7B23 | 21:34 |
| Hoffman | idk what the requirements are for blood donation | 21:34 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah | 21:35 |
| Hoffman | again, out of my depth | 21:35 |
| LjL | well alright, i guess we can all be guessing that some further screening takes place to ensure antibodies are not too aggressive when doing this plasma treatment thing for COVID | 21:36 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: that makes sense but I don't think it's done | 21:39 |
| tinwhiskers | I think it may be because the donated plasma doesn't actually persist very long, but in the case of an organ transplant there is chronic exposure to antibodies. | 21:40 |
| tinwhiskers | Pretty sure people are not matched for antibodies when given plasma during surgery so I don't see why this would be any different | 21:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:34 UTC: Bolsonaro fires popular health minister after dispute over coronavirus response: Luiz Henrique Mandetta defended physical distancing Far-right president has downplayed impact of coronavirus Brazil’s president Jair Bolsonaro has sacked his popular health minister Luiz Mandetta after a weeks-long standoff between the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/f9wHuO | 21:42 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i don't know, i naively though "normal" plasma transfers, antibodies are simply filtered out | 21:42 |
| LjL | "simply" | 21:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Ah. I see. | 21:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:44 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Midwest governors look at reopening, Facebook cancels large events until 2021 → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 21:49 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: yes, you're right. "The collected plasma is promptly frozen at lower than -20 °C (-4 °F) and is typically shipped to a processing facility for fractionation. This process separates the collected plasma into specific components, such as albumin and immunoglobulins..." | 21:52 |
| LjL | i knew it was kept as separate components, at least | 21:53 |
| LjL | for instance "plasma", for some value of it, looks transparent | 21:53 |
| LjL | something one probably wouldn't expect of "blood" | 21:53 |
| LjL | well, transparent-ish anyway, just not colored | 21:53 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, and even with these separation techniques... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_transfusion#Immunologic_reaction | 21:54 |
| LjL | that is a long list of scary things | 21:54 |
| LjL | for instance | 21:55 |
| LjL | Transfusion-associated acute lung injury (TRALI) is a syndrome that is similar to Acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS), which develops during or within 6 hours of transfusion of a plasma-containing blood product. Fever, hypotension, shortness of breath, and tachycardia often occurs in this type of reaction. | 21:55 |
| LjL | you wouldn't want that in a COVID patient, i suspect | 21:55 |
| LjL | since it's... more of the same | 21:55 |
| tinwhiskers | Indeed | 22:00 |
| tinwhiskers | Bloody third world internet is dropping out again | 22:00 |
| tinwhiskers | Fwiw, the plasma is clear, yes, but that includes both the albumin and immunoglobulins (antibodies). The red blood cells have already been separated from the plasma prior to that. | 22:02 |
| tinwhiskers | Also, before I was rudely disconnected I was about to say... Also: "Donors are sometimes immunized against agents such as tetanus or hepatitis B so that their plasma contains the antibodies against the toxin or disease." | 22:03 |
| Hoffman | RUDELY disconnected | 22:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 20:02 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: A domani → https://is.gd/ZJ5gwd | 22:04 |
| tinwhiskers | But it seems it's not as simple as just giving straight plasma, although the methods of the paper I read didn't mention anything more than screening for known pathogens before giving the plasma. | 22:05 |
| tinwhiskers | https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2763983 | 22:09 |
| tinwhiskers | My internet be broke so I can't check it but I think that was the one | 22:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:07 UTC: For essential retail workers, the need for mental health care may outlast coronavirus pandemic: Major retailers, psychologists and the nation's top grocery worker union say they anticipate a heightened need for therapy and other services, as people cope with the aftermath of the pandemic. → https://is.gd/Fn23Se | 22:11 |
| M_[m]3 | posting tencent reddit links on c19 channel? | 22:14 |
| M_[m]3 | what's the chink version of chutzpah? | 22:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:14 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Midwest governors look at reopening, Facebook cancels large events until 2021 → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 22:18 |
| merethan | Can someone explain me these numbers: http://euromomo.eu/outputs/number.html | 22:20 |
| merethan | It is European monitoring for excess deaths. To me the graph goes down and is not much different from last year. | 22:21 |
| merethan | Am I missing something? | 22:21 |
| merethan | Did I overlook anything? | 22:21 |
| M_[m]3 | euromomo think they're proving no increase over expected deaths | 22:23 |
| M_[m]3 | but they unfortunately don't | 22:23 |
| M_[m]3 | we have to wait, for the numbers | 22:23 |
| AimHere | merethan, look at the very far right of the graphs | 22:23 |
| AimHere | merethan, you can see a big spike in "delay-adjusted number of deaths" | 22:24 |
| merethan | The spike is similar to 2016, and going down. | 22:24 |
| AimHere | No | 22:24 |
| AimHere | The spike is out of sync with the normal seasonal rise and fall | 22:25 |
| davros | the total deaths are not so high BUT the hotspots are | 22:25 |
| AimHere | The normal seasonal variation occurs from about week 50 to week 10. This is a week 15 spike | 22:25 |
| merethan | Yes it is roughly two months later, so it seems. | 22:26 |
| davros | without lockdowns everywhere would be like the hotspots | 22:26 |
| davros | and the hotspots would have been worse | 22:26 |
| merethan | How can I read the hotspots in these numbers? | 22:26 |
| davros | its possible they're trying to present data in a way to hide the problem | 22:26 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Michael Che is paying homage to his grandmother, Martha, who recently died of coronavirus complications, in the kindest way possible. The “Saturday Night Live” star will pay one month’s rent for 160 residents in his grandmother’s public housing complex in NYC. (10002 votes) | https://redd.it/g27pnq | 22:27 |
| davros | some people dont like lockdowns | 22:27 |
| davros | so they're trying to present things in a way that downplays the problem | 22:27 |
| davros | hiding the real problem, which is what happened in lombardy | 22:27 |
| merethan | davros, there's not much to fiddle about people being dead. | 22:27 |
| AimHere | It could just be a delay in the mortality figures | 22:27 |
| merethan | The fiddling is in reason of being dead. | 22:27 |
| AimHere | Remember, it takes time to report, collate, and process the numbers of dead people | 22:27 |
| davros | i can't remember the multiplier | 22:27 |
| davros | but lombardy had a significant increase in death rate | 22:28 |
| davros | i doubt its all a media conspiracy | 22:28 |
| AimHere | It's only the last week that the UK's reported mortality had a significant spike | 22:28 |
| merethan | There might indeed be a delay in processing, but that would also have been the years before. | 22:28 |
| davros | china tried to hide it | 22:28 |
| nixonix | https://twitter.com/J_CD_T/status/1250815341044924425 | 22:28 |
| davros | and then they couldn't hide it any longer | 22:28 |
| nixonix | %title | 22:28 |
| Brainstorm | nixonix: From twitter.com: James Tozer su Twitter: "THREAD: From today onwards, @TheEconomist will be tracking excess mortality from covid-19 in as many countries as possible. We have published interactive charts for six [...] | 22:28 |
| merethan | If there is a skew, I would say there is a skew in all years represented in the graph. | 22:28 |
| davros | its funny how there's people saying there's conspiracy either way | 22:29 |
| davros | "the media is exaagerating.." | 22:29 |
| davros | "we want to blame china for hiding their death rate and not warning us" | 22:29 |
| merethan | davros, can you explain me how euromomo.eu tries to downplay? | 22:30 |
| merethan | Or how this is done, if so. | 22:30 |
| davros | i haven't even seen euromomo.eu but i've heard of that link before from "people biased toward conspiracy theories" | 22:31 |
| davros | basically | 22:31 |
| davros | i understand that the total deaths are not high | 22:31 |
| davros | the reason i support the lockdowns is they could be higher if we didnt' take action | 22:31 |
| davros | so if the lockdowns work | 22:32 |
| davros | all the conspiracy people will complain "it was all a hoax", lol, paradox | 22:32 |
| merethan | That is something you must be able to backup with numbers if it is that plain. | 22:32 |
| davros | the rate of case growth | 22:32 |
| davros | in the specific regions | 22:32 |
| davros | but its more than that | 22:32 |
| davros | this is a new virus | 22:32 |
| davros | we dont know everything abuot it yet, except it spreads fast and it's killing people | 22:33 |
| M_[m]3 | davros, are you enjoying the cnn coverage? | 22:33 |
| davros | i'm not watching cnn | 22:33 |
| M_[m]3 | also, models over facts | 22:33 |
| M_[m]3 | amirite guis? | 22:33 |
| davros | are you anther one lol | 22:33 |
| davros | facts are too late | 22:33 |
| davros | we work by planning ahead | 22:34 |
| M_[m]3 | euromomo is retarded I agree | 22:34 |
| davros | we spot a problem and we avert it | 22:34 |
| merethan | Case growth is affected by how many tests are done. Cause of death is often up for debate. | 22:34 |
| M_[m]3 | but you sound like a fucking idiot | 22:34 |
| merethan | The reason I look at this excess death graph is because there's nothing freely interpretable about someone being dead. | 22:34 |
| merethan | Now what am I overlooking here? | 22:34 |
| davros | merethan, does this site have a specific graph for the lombardy region | 22:34 |
| merethan | No it aggregates all data from over the EU. | 22:35 |
| davros | merethan, ok then | 22:35 |
| davros | thats how it's hiding it | 22:35 |
| M_[m]3 | but I also know why euromomo is wrong, not because "le new world order people think so" | 22:35 |
| merethan | But it does have some map functions. | 22:35 |
| davros | the total deaths across the EU are not hgh | 22:35 |
| davros | because we contained it with lockdowns | 22:35 |
| davros | look at *lombardy* | 22:35 |
| davros | thats what would have happened everywhere if we didnt | 22:35 |
| merethan | Can you show me the numbers? | 22:36 |
| M_[m]3 | it's not lock downs, it's how it's counted | 22:36 |
| M_[m]3 | italy can't count properly | 22:36 |
| M_[m]3 | unlike germany | 22:36 |
| davros | i dont have a specific link but i think it was 40% up at least | 22:36 |
| M_[m]3 | because they're dumber than davros | 22:36 |
| davros | its a shame there's no one from italy here to comment | 22:36 |
| lf94 | what are your thoughts about the talks of restriction lifting | 22:36 |
| lf94 | go | 22:36 |
| merethan | The news only brings you entertainment and excitement. Can you show me numbers? | 22:37 |
| lf94 | my thoughts: shouldnt even be remotely happening | 22:37 |
| Hoffman | that's not fair | 22:37 |
| Hoffman | nobody can count as well as germany | 22:37 |
| M_[m]3 | true | 22:37 |
| davros | merethan, if you actually care you can find them | 22:37 |
| merethan | Help me out. | 22:37 |
| davros | https://www.france24.com/en/20200401-virus-deaths-nearly-doubling-milan-s-normal-mortality-rate | 22:37 |
| M_[m]3 | "dies of car crash" CORONA!!! - Italy | 22:37 |
| davros | "nearly double" in some parts of italy | 22:37 |
| davros | well | 22:38 |
| merethan | I can find case numbers all over, but there's too much freely interpretable about reasons of death. | 22:38 |
| davros | nearly double the number of car crashes setc | 22:38 |
| davros | LOL | 22:38 |
| M_[m]3 | true | 22:38 |
| davros | if its nearly double the usual mortality rate | 22:38 |
| M_[m]3 | and now they're counteed as corona | 22:38 |
| davros | then it's either nearly double the number of car crashes etc all of a sudden | 22:38 |
| M_[m]3 | in italy | 22:38 |
| davros | or its this fucking virus | 22:38 |
| M_[m]3 | corona car crashes | 22:39 |
| AimHere | I'm guessing the number of car crashes has radically declined | 22:39 |
| Hoffman | bUt ItS jUsT tHe FlU bRo CaR cRaShEs KiLl mOaR pPl | 22:39 |
| M_[m]3 | car crashes declined in italy, number or corona cases increase | 22:39 |
| M_[m]3 | I wonder why | 22:39 |
| davros | if you think they're miscounting | 22:39 |
| Hoffman | it is a mystery | 22:39 |
| Hoffman | we will never know | 22:39 |
| davros | why is the death rate nearly double | 22:39 |
| davros | what changed? | 22:39 |
| davros | AH THIS FUCKING PANDEMIC | 22:40 |
| M_[m]3 | davros: I don't think,they say how they're counting dum dum | 22:40 |
| davros | either they had a suuden spike in all types of death | 22:40 |
| davros | or its this virus | 22:40 |
| M_[m]3 | we know they're counting like idiots | 22:40 |
| davros | for what purpose | 22:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:31 UTC: For grocery workers, the need for mental health care may outlast coronavirus pandemic: Major retailers, psychologists and the nation's top grocery worker union say they anticipate a heightened need for therapy and other services, as people cope with the aftermath of the pandemic. → https://is.gd/Fn23Se | 22:40 |
| davros | wrecking the economy on purpose | 22:40 |
| davros | for kicks | 22:40 |
| davros | i dont thinkso | 22:40 |
| M_[m]3 | no one's saying that | 22:40 |
| davros | a country doesn't want to admit it has a problem | 22:40 |
| AimHere | davros, a week or two back, you'd get people all over IRC saying 'BuT tHeREs No ExCesS MoRTaLiTY'. I don't see those guys no more | 22:40 |
| davros | china tried to hide it at first | 22:40 |
| M_[m]3 | at first | 22:41 |
| M_[m]3 | they still are | 22:41 |
| M_[m]3 | fucking hell, greek? | 22:41 |
| davros | first china tried to hide the fact they had a problem | 22:42 |
| davros | then they couldn't hide it and switched to warning | 22:42 |
| M_[m]3 | have more of a look and think, before typing | 22:42 |
| davros | trump has switched from denying it's real , initially calling it a hoax, to blaming WHO for helping china hide it | 22:42 |
| merethan | davros, the very link you pasted has the line "March turns out to be a statistically average month" in it. What am I misreading here? | 22:42 |
| M_[m]3 | they're hiding again dumdum, keep up | 22:42 |
| davros | M_[m]3, you're going to ignore all the logic here and just call me dumb when you are | 22:43 |
| M_[m]3 | davros: :)) | 22:43 |
| davros | ok you win | 22:43 |
| davros | you convinced me | 22:43 |
| davros | everyone just shut down the economy for kicks | 22:43 |
| davros | its all a big wind up | 22:43 |
| M_[m]3 | "muh retard logic = actual logic" | 22:43 |
| davros | the whole world is throwing a sickie | 22:43 |
| M_[m]3 | no one said that | 22:43 |
| M_[m]3 | arguing in bad fait | 22:44 |
| davros | then what are you saying | 22:44 |
| M_[m]3 | faith | 22:44 |
| M_[m]3 | davos you duplicitous shit | 22:44 |
| M_[m]3 | <davros "everyone just shut down the econ"> no one is saying this | 22:44 |
| davros | then whats the motive | 22:44 |
| M_[m]3 | damn, you're really behind, it will take long time to explain to you | 22:45 |
| merethan | I was asking only for help reading graphs. | 22:45 |
| davros | i've followed conspiract theories for 10+ years | 22:45 |
| M_[m]3 | lol | 22:45 |
| merethan | Can someone help me reading graphs? | 22:45 |
| davros | merethan, reading between the lines you dont want to beleive this is a problem | 22:45 |
| Hoffman | a forceful point is better than the most cutting sarcasm, imo | 22:45 |
| davros | i'll leave you to it | 22:45 |
| Hoffman | a forceful, affirmative point | 22:45 |
| livebrain | any short review on what this arguing is all about ? i dont feel like scrolling back the text | 22:46 |
| M_[m]3 | the graphs don't explain shit, we have to wait | 22:46 |
| M_[m]3 | the authors have motive, and we have to wait for end of year to see what deaths are up or not | 22:47 |
| davros | livebrain, these guys are saying there's no excess deaths | 22:47 |
| M_[m]3 | I'm not saying that | 22:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Midwest governors look at reopening, Facebook cancels large events until 2021 → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 22:47 |
| M_[m]3 | I'm saying it's up but we don't know by how much yet | 22:48 |
| M_[m]3 | and anyone claiming it's not up or up by X% is lying | 22:48 |
| xz3r0 | well it's not 0.1% like they originally said | 22:48 |
| M_[m]3 | and I'm claiming davros is a dumdum | 22:48 |
| M_[m]3 | :P | 22:48 |
| davros | obviously you are | 22:49 |
| M_[m]3 | but I like his spirit | 22:49 |
| livebrain | one thing is for shure, the other day when i passed by a funeral home, there were alot of anouncements for dead ppl | 22:49 |
| livebrain | really alot | 22:49 |
| merethan | davros, this is not supposed to be a matter of belief. | 22:49 |
| livebrain | usually theres only 1 or 2 at the same time | 22:49 |
| davros | look | 22:49 |
| davros | there's a surge in deaths from pneumonia | 22:49 |
| davros | and ther'es a new virus | 22:49 |
| davros | and the people dieing of pneumonia have this virus | 22:49 |
| davros | so we quarantine to stop it spreading | 22:49 |
| davros | we dont wait till it kills 2% of the worlds population | 22:49 |
| M_[m]3 | your first part was right | 22:50 |
| M_[m]3 | your second | 22:50 |
| M_[m]3 | was who knows | 22:50 |
| M_[m]3 | but you claim it as fact | 22:50 |
| M_[m]3 | when it's not | 22:50 |
| livebrain | the second part ? | 22:50 |
| livebrain | dont they get tested for the virus ? | 22:50 |
| M_[m]3 | we don't know if self isolation works | 22:50 |
| M_[m]3 | there are not the numbers for it | 22:50 |
| xz3r0 | self isolation works | 22:50 |
| M_[m]3 | we have to wait | 22:50 |
| xz3r0 | unless it's in your water supply... | 22:50 |
| M_[m]3 | we don't know | 22:51 |
| M_[m]3 | sweden? | 22:51 |
| merethan | Cause of death is a matter of interpretation. Dead or not is very binary which can't be skrewed around with. | 22:51 |
| merethan | Cases is dependent on testing. | 22:51 |
| livebrain | if theres no ppl socializing one would thing that the virus would spread as easely | 22:51 |
| M_[m]3 | why are countries thinking of stopping self isolation? because of sweden | 22:51 |
| livebrain | wouldnt | 22:51 |
| xz3r0 | no | 22:51 |
| M_[m]3 | why don't you know about this? | 22:51 |
| xz3r0 | they want to stop isolation because of the $$$ | 22:51 |
| M_[m]3 | because you watch dumdum news | 22:51 |
| davros | they're thinking of stopping isolation because it's hard to do | 22:51 |
| xz3r0 | they don't give a damn about us, they only care about the economy | 22:51 |
| M_[m]3 | ffs | 22:52 |
| M_[m]3 | I hope you're all high risk | 22:52 |
| xz3r0 | isolation ain't hard jz prisoners think it's a holiday camp | 22:52 |
| M_[m]3 | because you're all cognitively biased | 22:52 |
| livebrain | you hope we all are high risk for catching the virus ? | 22:52 |
| xz3r0 | would be nice to go get some ice cream at the beach tho | 22:52 |
| M_[m]3 | no | 22:52 |
| M_[m]3 | I hope you're all high risk of getting hugged | 22:53 |
| M_[m]3 | by me | 22:53 |
| lf94 | is this a new meme | 22:53 |
| lf94 | death hug or something | 22:53 |
| l0ndoner | o/ | 22:53 |
| M_[m]3 | cuddle hug, the best hug | 22:53 |
| M_[m]3 | I'm saying, stop assuming the worst and panicking | 22:54 |
| livebrain | the lockdown thingy is also to not overwhelm hospitals | 22:54 |
| M_[m]3 | to me, it looks like they want us to panic | 22:54 |
| livebrain | because if hospitals are completelly overhwelmed ppl with die | 22:54 |
| livebrain | becauyse of covid-19 | 22:54 |
| l0ndoner | wear or not to wear masks | 22:54 |
| xz3r0 | that's the only reason livebrain, wanted herd immunity yet couldn't hack the influx so lockdown | 22:54 |
| livebrain | and because of other illness | 22:54 |
| M_[m]3 | everyone in this room will outlive everyone probably | 22:55 |
| M_[m]3 | hypochondriacs | 22:56 |
| xz3r0 | it's the aftermath M_[m]3 | 22:56 |
| M_[m]3 | the aftermath is a corona party | 22:56 |
| xz3r0 | everyone going to be fucked for years to come | 22:56 |
| M_[m]3 | I don't think so from the numbers | 22:57 |
| livebrain | hyponchondriacs why ? | 22:57 |
| M_[m]3 | from the models we used at start, maybe | 22:57 |
| xz3r0 | its not just the deaths | 22:57 |
| M_[m]3 | but from the models no | 22:57 |
| xz3r0 | its the impact of paying back all that debt | 22:57 |
| xz3r0 | #1 | 22:57 |
| M_[m]3 | * but from the numbersno | 22:57 |
| xz3r0 | and all the cuts they going to make | 22:57 |
| davros | big picture, we're overdue for a pandemic | 22:57 |
| xz3r0 | they all power hungry | 22:57 |
| davros | then this hits | 22:57 |
| davros | its not as lethal as spanish flu, i know | 22:57 |
| davros | but the more people get it the more chance it has to mutate | 22:57 |
| l0ndoner | wheres all the money come from to Furlough everyone and bail out business? | 22:58 |
| davros | also its good practice (lockdowns, quarantine, masks) | 22:58 |
| M_[m]3 | ok ok doomer party it is, let's play worst case scenario | 22:58 |
| xz3r0 | you'd think they'd print it l0ndoner, instead they lend it and we have to pay it all back.. billions | 22:58 |
| M_[m]3 | not as bad as spanish flu for round one | 22:58 |
| M_[m]3 | spanish flu had worse round two | 22:58 |
| xz3r0 | spanish flu was as old as the dinosaurs | 22:58 |
| xz3r0 | they didn't have the advances in medicine now | 22:59 |
| xz3r0 | imagine this back then? | 22:59 |
| livebrain | comparing spanish flu to this ... | 22:59 |
| M_[m]3 | modern day medicine is dark ages | 22:59 |
| livebrain | i mean ppl would die at 50 | 22:59 |
| xz3r0 | it's always dark ages | 22:59 |
| livebrain | and kids would work in coal mines | 22:59 |
| livebrain | so times were not the same | 22:59 |
| M_[m]3 | yeah, first world immune systems are better | 23:00 |
| livebrain | you can get help | 23:00 |
| M_[m]3 | but not 2nd and 3rd world | 23:00 |
| livebrain | by oxygen | 23:00 |
| livebrain | that will keep you alive | 23:00 |
| livebrain | i seriously doubt that back then ppl would have access to oxygen like we have it now | 23:00 |
| livebrain | in hospitals | 23:00 |
| M_[m]3 | for this? no, it depends on your immune system | 23:00 |
| M_[m]3 | and ability to absorb d3 and zinc in cells | 23:01 |
| M_[m]3 | hospitals can't supercharge your metabolism and immune system | 23:02 |
| M_[m]3 | you need to do that with lifestyle, where you live, diet and exercise. | 23:02 |
| _abc_ | 1st world immune systems are better?! All the overweight sedentary people living in conurbations with tens of millions of people? No natural food worth mentioning, pill vitamins now and then? | 23:03 |
| M_[m]3 | I didn't say that | 23:03 |
| _abc_ | 00:01 < M_[m]3> yeah, first world immune systems are better | 23:03 |
| livebrain | yeap thats why 1st world ppl dont live long | 23:03 |
| livebrain | ohh wait... they do... | 23:04 |
| M_[m]3 | perfect person to survive this: white and skinny and not inhaling toxic shit, first world or 3rd world | 23:04 |
| _abc_ | livebrain: some do, but quality of life in the last 3-5 years is not so great. | 23:04 |
| livebrain | well... that sucks having a better immune system and dieng younger | 23:04 |
| _abc_ | Color is unrelated. Social distancing bred in since birth might. | 23:04 |
| M_[m]3 | it's not | 23:04 |
| M_[m]3 | can't absorb d3 | 23:05 |
| M_[m]3 | it's related | 23:05 |
| livebrain | skinny is not healthy also | 23:05 |
| livebrain | obese is anot healthy also | 23:05 |
| davros | skinny by western standards means normal | 23:05 |
| davros | average in the west is overweight | 23:05 |
| M_[m]3 | you're being duplicitous | 23:05 |
| M_[m]3 | that's not what I'm saying | 23:05 |
| blkshp | What did i walk in on :S | 23:06 |
| M_[m]3 | https://youtu.be/W5yVGmfivAk | 23:06 |
| M_[m]3 | listen to this good doctor | 23:07 |
| M_[m]3 | you can be over weight and good immune system I agree, but if you're over 26 bmi like me, then as healthy as you are, it's an up hill battle vs a virus | 23:08 |
| M_[m]3 | there are good papers on this unfortunately | 23:08 |
| M_[m]3 | but yeah, if you're white or darker, suppliment with d3 | 23:09 |
| livebrain | i usually dont take anything | 23:10 |
| livebrain | if not needed | 23:10 |
| M_[m]3 | I currently suppliment d3 5k i.u., b complex, zinc chelate and magnesuim | 23:10 |
| livebrain | and vitamins should be handled by doctors | 23:11 |
| livebrain | not self prescribed over some youtube videos | 23:11 |
| M_[m]3 | use a tracker like cronometer.com it will show you | 23:11 |
| M_[m]3 | doctors are people like you and me | 23:11 |
| M_[m]3 | nutritionalists are better | 23:11 |
| M_[m]3 | doctors don't know shit | 23:12 |
| livebrain | no they are not like me | 23:12 |
| livebrain | they study far more than me | 23:12 |
| M_[m]3 | not nutrition | 23:12 |
| M_[m]3 | ok | 23:12 |
| M_[m]3 | whatever | 23:12 |
| M_[m]3 | talk to doc | 23:12 |
| M_[m]3 | about it | 23:12 |
| M_[m]3 | good idea | 23:13 |
| livebrain | no need | 23:13 |
| M_[m]3 | lol | 23:13 |
| M_[m]3 | the username is purely ironic | 23:13 |
| livebrain | you put the meaning of the name that you want it | 23:14 |
| livebrain | but vitamins should only be taken if needed | 23:14 |
| M_[m]3 | :) | 23:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:12 UTC: The US economy can't reopen without widespread coronavirus testing. Getting there will take a lot of work and money: Some experts say America needs to perform 20 million to 30 million tests a day to begin getting the economy back to normal. One estimate says it will cost up to $500 billion over time for a program of [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/FvALuK | 23:15 |
| M_[m]3 | the soil today is as good as it was in the 1800's | 23:15 |
| M_[m]3 | sure | 23:15 |
| M_[m]3 | let's go with belief | 23:15 |
| M_[m]3 | and not facts | 23:15 |
| livebrain | facts from youtube | 23:15 |
| livebrain | got it... | 23:16 |
| livebrain | i always take my facts from youtube | 23:16 |
| M_[m]3 | not from youtube | 23:16 |
| M_[m]3 | ok got it | 23:16 |
| M_[m]3 | you're an idiot | 23:16 |
| M_[m]3 | I understand | 23:16 |
| livebrain | yeap iam | 23:16 |
| M_[m]3 | livebrain == youtubebrain | 23:16 |
| livebrain | but i dont take vitamins | 23:17 |
| livebrain | so even an idiot doesnt take vitamins | 23:17 |
| M_[m]3 | ok, got it | 23:17 |
| livebrain | that says alot about your | 23:17 |
| livebrain | you | 23:17 |
| M_[m]3 | good for you | 23:17 |
| M_[m]3 | stick it to | 23:17 |
| M_[m]3 | someone | 23:17 |
| M_[m]3 | I guess | 23:17 |
| M_[m]3 | based on nothing | 23:17 |
| livebrain | so that guy on that link | 23:18 |
| livebrain | is not a medic | 23:18 |
| M_[m]3 | good stuff | 23:18 |
| livebrain | he is a nurse | 23:18 |
| livebrain | he has a phd | 23:18 |
| M_[m]3 | he's a doctor | 23:18 |
| livebrain | so he is "doctor" | 23:18 |
| livebrain | but not medical | 23:18 |
| M_[m]3 | a nurse teacher | 23:18 |
| livebrain | yes a nurse | 23:18 |
| M_[m]3 | that's what the basic bitch retards think | 23:18 |
| M_[m]3 | because they don't look | 23:18 |
| livebrain | are you 5 ? | 23:18 |
| M_[m]3 | he's a doctor | 23:18 |
| livebrain | thats the best you can do ? | 23:18 |
| M_[m]3 | he trained nurses | 23:18 |
| livebrain | yes nurses | 23:19 |
| M_[m]3 | he's a legit doctor | 23:19 |
| livebrain | because he is a nurse | 23:19 |
| M_[m]3 | he trained nurses | 23:19 |
| M_[m]3 | he's not a nurse | 23:19 |
| M_[m]3 | that's a /pol/ belief | 23:19 |
| M_[m]3 | he's a legit doctor | 23:19 |
| livebrain | in my country | 23:19 |
| M_[m]3 | I looked into it | 23:19 |
| M_[m]3 | because I thought so too | 23:19 |
| livebrain | he couldnt even prescribe things | 23:19 |
| livebrain | but yes he can teach | 23:20 |
| livebrain | if he wants | 23:20 |
| M_[m]3 | I didn't stop at being a retard like you | 23:20 |
| M_[m]3 | and I researched | 23:20 |
| livebrain | M_[m]3: take your vitamins you are too angry | 23:20 |
| M_[m]3 | he was a doc for long time | 23:20 |
| M_[m]3 | I took them thanks | 23:20 |
| M_[m]3 | I'm fine | 23:20 |
| M_[m]3 | take som | 23:20 |
| livebrain | how old are you ? | 23:20 |
| M_[m]3 | nice argument | 23:21 |
| livebrain | you are behaving like a kid | 23:21 |
| M_[m]3 | like age matters | 23:21 |
| M_[m]3 | you argue like a retard | 23:21 |
| M_[m]3 | regardless of your age | 23:21 |
| livebrain | well you presented your youtube proof | 23:21 |
| livebrain | about vitamins | 23:21 |
| livebrain | from a nurse | 23:21 |
| M_[m]3 | he was a doctor for long time, then became teacher | 23:21 |
| M_[m]3 | he's a doctor | 23:22 |
| M_[m]3 | you want him to be nurse for some reason | 23:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:18 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Midwest governors look at reopening, Facebook cancels large events until 2021 → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 23:22 |
| M_[m]3 | but he's verifiably noy | 23:22 |
| M_[m]3 | not* | 23:22 |
| livebrain | " I am a retired Nurse Teacher and A and E nurse based in England." | 23:22 |
| M_[m]3 | what's your agenda? | 23:22 |
| M_[m]3 | oh wait | 23:22 |
| livebrain | " My PhD focused on the development of open learning resources for nurses nationally and internationally. " | 23:23 |
| livebrain | thats from him | 23:23 |
| livebrain | he is a doctor because of the phd | 23:24 |
| livebrain | not because he is an MD | 23:24 |
| livebrain | like someone that has a phd on math is a doctor | 23:25 |
| M_[m]3 | and what is the problem? | 23:26 |
| M_[m]3 | md vs phd? | 23:26 |
| livebrain | are you serious ? | 23:26 |
| davros | what is his phd in | 23:26 |
| AimHere | Sigh. He's a medical professional, but not a medical doctor. He's got a doctorate in nursing | 23:26 |
| AimHere | So he's well worth listening to | 23:26 |
| davros | if you want advice on nursing :) | 23:27 |
| livebrain | im not saying that he isnt worth listening | 23:27 |
| M_[m]3 | sounds like it | 23:27 |
| livebrain | but giving advice on subjects that is not his field | 23:27 |
| davros | ^^ | 23:27 |
| davros | right | 23:27 |
| livebrain | maybe its not the best approach | 23:27 |
| davros | just another opinion | 23:27 |
| AimHere | His field is medicine, though. | 23:27 |
| livebrain | maybe its alot different in your countries | 23:28 |
| AimHere | Just he's not an actual epidemiological expert or a practicing physician | 23:28 |
| livebrain | but if you want to get advice on vitamins you would go for an MD | 23:28 |
| livebrain | not a nurse | 23:28 |
| M_[m]3 | his advice is solid | 23:29 |
| M_[m]3 | if you watched it | 23:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:26 UTC: (news): Gilead stock surges after report says coronavirus drug trial shows encouraging early results → https://is.gd/SdzaNO | 23:29 |
| livebrain | "if you are deficient on vitamin D" | 23:29 |
| livebrain | that whats he literally said in the video | 23:30 |
| livebrain | did you watched ? | 23:30 |
| M_[m]3 | you didn't | 23:30 |
| M_[m]3 | do we have epidemiological expert or a practicing physician talking? | 23:30 |
| livebrain | he literally said that | 23:30 |
| livebrain | in the video | 23:30 |
| AimHere | What's your problem with that phrase? | 23:30 |
| AimHere | The slight brainfart with his preposition? | 23:31 |
| livebrain | if you have a deficiency you need to take it | 23:31 |
| livebrain | otherwise | 23:31 |
| livebrain | dont | 23:31 |
| M_[m]3 | weird | 23:31 |
| livebrain | no doctor will tell you to take vitamins if you dont actually need it | 23:31 |
| M_[m]3 | I did "watch it", where are you from? | 23:31 |
| M_[m]3 | >no good scotsman | 23:31 |
| M_[m]3 | no true scotsman | 23:32 |
| M_[m]3 | ok livebrain | 23:32 |
| M_[m]3 | great argument | 23:32 |
| livebrain | at least not in real life | 23:32 |
| livebrain | maybe in youtube | 23:32 |
| linext | New Jersey is listing 50,000 jobs: https://jobs.covid19.nj.gov/?Facets.filterbox.filter0=%5B%5D&Facets.filterbox.filter1=%5B%5D | 23:33 |
| M_[m]3 | you keep repeating that | 23:33 |
| M_[m]3 | is that in your script? | 23:33 |
| livebrain | cant i repeat myself ? | 23:33 |
| M_[m]3 | it's a little weird to be honest | 23:33 |
| livebrain | M_[m]3: i bet you are a teenager | 23:33 |
| linext | The problem is, if you get sick and need to be in the hospital for 1-2 weeks, the $100,000 bill won't be covered by the $11 or $12/hour | 23:33 |
| tinwhiskers | livebrain: trying to convince pill poppers that more is not better when it comes to vitamins is a lost cause. I applaud your effort though. | 23:33 |
| davros | youtube certainly has some useful videos but | 23:34 |
| davros | its not like advice from a real medical professional | 23:34 |
| M_[m]3 | <livebrain "🍀_🍀: i bet you are a teenager "> that's not an argument, and looks bad on you if that's your only counter | 23:34 |
| oriba | Don't blame the Bats: https://www.cms.int/en/news/opinion-far-being-our-enemies-bats-need-protection-now-more-ever | 23:34 |
| livebrain | M_[m]3: doesnt it look bad when you call someone else retard ? | 23:34 |
| M_[m]3 | <livebrain "🍀_🍀: doesnt it look bad when y"> you really are, and I'm old enough to stop there | 23:35 |
| livebrain | M_[m]3: i know you are a teenager lol | 23:35 |
| _abc_ | oriba: nobody blames the bats. Everyone blames the idiots who went to play with bats and got bitten or pissed on. | 23:35 |
| livebrain | yeap bats were inocent lol | 23:35 |
| _abc_ | I read a chicken coop smells sweet compared with a bat cave. | 23:35 |
| M_[m]3 | everyone else gave good argument except "livebrain" | 23:35 |
| M_[m]3 | what a funny name | 23:36 |
| _abc_ | You need a certain kind of fetish to go in there. | 23:36 |
| M_[m]3 | for a deadbrain | 23:36 |
| livebrain | M_[m]3: being alive doesnt mean being smart | 23:36 |
| oriba | _abc_: some do blame the bats. But of course not here... | 23:36 |
| livebrain | you just projected your own perception to my name | 23:36 |
| M_[m]3 | :D | 23:36 |
| _abc_ | oriba: tbh, if wiping out a certain species of bats is what it takes to stop this thing from reoccurring... | 23:36 |
| M_[m]3 | sure | 23:36 |
| oriba | _abc_: no. read the text | 23:36 |
| _abc_ | Won't... | 23:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:32 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: 2020 swing states clobbered by pandemic, but Fed's Harker says jobs will return → https://is.gd/WpbB6H | 23:37 |
| tinwhiskers | M_[m]3: please stop with the ad hominems | 23:37 |
| LjL | Now there are limitations on what you can order on just about every category of food at the supermarket... And that's in addition to being able to order at most once a week, which would be reasonable but not if you can't order enough | 23:37 |
| M_[m]3 | tinwhiskers: I stopped, read the conversation, kick me if you think it's necessary | 23:38 |
| livebrain | supplies in italy are in a shortage LjL ? | 23:38 |
| tinwhiskers | _abc_: all wild animals have viruses that night cross over. You might be familiar with bird flu and swine flu. Unless you're planning to wipe out all animals that's not a good approach | 23:38 |
| M_[m]3 | oh wait, you can't, because you're not a mod, fuck you tinwhiskers | 23:38 |
| M_[m]3 | also, suck a dick tinwhiskers | 23:39 |
| tinwhiskers | o.O | 23:39 |
| livebrain | not a tennager at all | 23:39 |
| LjL | I asked someone earlier not to call people retards. That's definitely something I ask of everyone not just that one person. | 23:39 |
| tinwhiskers | livebrain: lol | 23:39 |
| davros | he's here to throw insults around | 23:39 |
| M_[m]3 | LjL: I didn't get that retard memo, but I won't do it from now on | 23:40 |
| Hoffman | _abc_: fwiw I dont blame bats or bat eaters | 23:40 |
| LjL | Wait dtal | 23:40 |
| Hoffman | I blame the people whose literal job was preparing for this | 23:40 |
| Hoffman | and who failed to do that job well | 23:40 |
| Hoffman | there will be a virus after this one. | 23:41 |
| dTal | LjL: <Darth Vader voice> as you wish | 23:41 |
| Hoffman | do you know where it will come from? will it come from another animal? which kind? | 23:41 |
| Hoffman | no, nobody does. | 23:41 |
| Hoffman | the viruses are constantly mutating all around us | 23:41 |
| light | modern viruses are digital, they'll come from computers | 23:41 |
| Hoffman | ^ | 23:41 |
| Hoffman | we need to ban byte soup | 23:42 |
| Hoffman | to prevent computer human transmission | 23:42 |
| davros | even if covid isn't so serious (as some people like to claim) , we should still all use this as practice | 23:42 |
| davros | i like the fact the roads are empty, we need that for other reasons | 23:42 |
| davros | people are going to get better at working from home | 23:43 |
| livebrain | i think this will shape the way we think, the other day i was watching TV and i saw a scene with a bunch of ppl together and i instantly though "irresponsable ppl" | 23:43 |
| davros | saving journeys, this is a good thing | 23:43 |
| livebrain | because they were all together | 23:43 |
| Hoffman | lol | 23:43 |
| livebrain | i thing somethings will stich with ppl | 23:43 |
| livebrain | i think i will get alot paranoid after this | 23:43 |
| LjL-Matrix | livebrain: i don't think it's a matter of actual food shortage (i am not sure, but i don't think so), just the logistics being overwhelmed. but i don't understand why they aren't like... improved... okay, i know i sound like i want to be waving a magic wand here, but i've just kept thinking that efficient food delivery should be key to avoiding the one big remaining place where the virus is going to circulate (aside | 23:43 |
| LjL-Matrix | from hospitals) | 23:43 |
| livebrain | stich/stick | 23:44 |
| Hoffman | LjL: keep in mind there actually are shortages | 23:44 |
| Hoffman | for some stuff, due to closures | 23:44 |
| davros | JIT supply chain | 23:44 |
| tinwhiskers | _abc_: also, you don't need to be "playing with bats" and "getting pissed on" for a virus to cross over. I know you want to blame someone but really that does no good. The best thing we can do is plan to respond quickly and effectively. | 23:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 21:37 UTC: (news): Gilead stock surges 15% after report says coronavirus drug trial shows encouraging early results → https://is.gd/SdzaNO | 23:44 |
| davros | the JIT supply chain doesn't like sudden spikes in demand | 23:44 |
| Hoffman | meat processing plants are closing | 23:44 |
| LjL | dTal, sorry, i'll leave the next one to you, but i didn't want to sound like i was only asking him to stop with the names *after* seeing what he had written (which i hadn't yet) | 23:44 |
| davros | but we've definitely got a potential issue with harvesting now | 23:44 |
| Hoffman | many are | 23:44 |
| Hoffman | more each week | 23:44 |
| Hoffman | luckily I have 12 pounds of bacon in the freezer | 23:45 |
| LjL | Hoffman, but the food industry is considered "essential" and allowed to operate fully afaik | 23:45 |
| dTal | LjL: no no it's your channel, it's just blood sport at that point :p | 23:45 |
| davros | they needed 70, 000 volunteers to pick food, should have been easy to get but there's a complication r.e. accomodation | 23:45 |
| Hoffman | LjL: yeah, the closures are due to massive contamination | 23:45 |
| Hoffman | https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/12/business/meat-plant-closures-smithfield/index.html | 23:45 |
| Hoffman | https://www.marketwatch.com/story/smithfield-to-shut-2-more-pork-plants-because-of-coronavirus-2020-04-15 | 23:45 |
| davros | i have a protein powder stash which i collected for brexit | 23:46 |
| dTal | I bought SlimFast | 23:46 |
| dTal | big mistake, it's vile | 23:46 |
| Hoffman | no, I think it comes in a bottle, not a vial | 23:46 |
| Hoffman | this has been: jokes that only work when spoken aloud | 23:47 |
| oriba | On the question of "died with vs. died from covid-19", new results in UK came out, see explanation here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F39kVKSCP40 | 23:47 |
| _abc_ | *why* can you write italic text on my terminal? :) | 23:49 |
| LjL | Hoffman: well as far as I know there have been no such incidents in Italy yet, at least not of that magnitude, although I can't rule out they'd keep it hush hush and I don't pay a lot of attention to local news | 23:49 |
| davros | lol him again | 23:50 |
| Hoffman | LjL: the US is the world's top exporter of pork, and Italy is the #2 importer | 23:50 |
| Hoffman | LjL: so these closures are gonna be affecting italy as well | 23:50 |
| _abc_ | aha | 23:50 |
| Hoffman | but they do make some mean cured meats with it | 23:51 |
| _abc_ | I got the hang of it | 23:51 |
| _abc_ | almost | 23:53 |
| LjL | Hoffman: well meat seems to be literally the only thing the supermarket has not placed limitations on! | 23:53 |
| Hoffman | stock up on bacon now | 23:54 |
| Hoffman | if nothing else, it will go up in price | 23:54 |
| Hoffman | and we can't be without our bacon | 23:54 |
| _abc_ | Do you think it will save your bacon? | 23:54 |
| Hoffman | or just buy enough bacon for a big plate full of bacon | 23:54 |
| LjL | I'm practically a vegetarian, but I'll let my dad know since he likes his weekly feasting on pork | 23:55 |
| Hoffman | if you ride home, you'd be bikin bacon | 23:55 |
| Hoffman | brb bakin | 23:55 |
| davros | hah | 23:58 |
| davros | well after all that arguing about this source | 23:59 |
| davros | he now shows specific graphs showing the increase in specific covid deaths | 23:59 |
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