| LjL | What who | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | Oh Campbell? | 00:00 |
| davros | yes | 00:00 |
| LjL | Hoffman: booking a slot | 00:00 |
| LjL | 46% of deaths in the area of London were associated with COVID-19... and that's in March, likely worse in April | 00:10 |
| LjL | "but it's just a flu" | 00:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 22:12 UTC: CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Trump accusa New York City di aver gonfiato i numeri sul coronavirus. → https://is.gd/dt1VS9 | 00:13 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Michigan health care worker blasts 'idiots' protesting stay-home order (10476 votes) | https://redd.it/g2gst9 | 00:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:24 UTC: (news): New Jersey AG opens probe of nursing home deaths after finding 17 bodies in facility hit by coronavirus → https://is.gd/K4YvD6 | 00:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 22:25 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live: NSW considers roster system for return to face-to-face learning in schools – latest news → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 00:35 |
| LjL | davros, i haven't really watched most of Campbell's videos, what was your criticism there? did he previously diss the "Statists"? | 00:53 |
| LjL | also | 00:53 |
| LjL | aiui, our ISS attributed 88% of COVID-19 deaths to comorbidities, so basically "with" | 00:54 |
| LjL | but they way it was phrased was horrible | 00:54 |
| LjL | it was like "12% have died from COVID, while 88% had comorbidities" | 00:54 |
| davros | you'd have to scroll up for context.. the M_ guy was using him to back up his points | 00:54 |
| AimHere | Campbell isn't antistatist. He's very much following the conventional wisdom on Covid19, though he'll happily moan at individual political regimes if they're not doing enough to stop the virus | 00:54 |
| LjL | so... uh... you are *automatically* excluding everyone who had *anything* else from the ability to die of COVID?! the British figure seems much more believable | 00:55 |
| LjL | i believe doctors usually want to find the proximate cause of death. sure, the death might also not have happened if that person hadn't gotten hypertension from eating too much 30 years ago, or something | 00:55 |
| AimHere | If the people diagnosed with Covid19 aren't dying of Covid19, you have to explain how come they're now dying far more than they ordinarily would be | 00:56 |
| LjL | davros, oh, it was about the M guy? nevermind then | 00:56 |
| LjL | i've even removed some of his messages from the Matrix side | 00:56 |
| LjL | AimHere, yes indeed. i understand there's some subtleties involved | 00:56 |
| LjL | like for instance, take someone with AIDS | 00:56 |
| LjL | they'll invariably die of something that isn't AIDS | 00:57 |
| LjL | and that is the proximate cause of death | 00:57 |
| LjL | the HIV... they may have gotten it decades before | 00:57 |
| AimHere | Indeed. But you know the mortality of aids patients when there isnt' Covid19 and aids patients when there is Covid19 | 00:57 |
| LjL | but, clearly, we still consider HIV as the cause, in most of those cases | 00:57 |
| LjL | so it *is* a bit treacherous, but, still, if someone was surviving just fine even with a bit of hypertension and maybe even diabetes, and then now suddenly they can't breathe because they have this brand new virus in their body... something's different from the HIV case! | 00:58 |
| LjL | AimHere, right | 00:58 |
| AimHere | It's an instance where you can just divide deaths of Covid patients by known Covid19 patients, get a scarily big number and ask someone to say 'Explain why that number's so big' if they don't think Covid19 is what's killing them | 00:58 |
| LjL | AimHere, it might be hard-to-impossible (or rather, even meaningless) to determine an individual's "correct" cause of death, but you can still look at mortality statistics and see what COVID-19 is causing | 00:58 |
| AimHere | Exactly | 00:58 |
| LjL | AimHere, at least, EuroMoMo is catching up with the data (slowly, like everything in Europe), and now not just Italy, but pretty much every western European country is seeing a spike | 00:59 |
| LjL | the spike has already gone down in some countries, and it hasn't always passed some other spikes that happened in 2016 and 2018 | 00:59 |
| LjL | so i *am* curious to understand some more things about it all | 01:00 |
| LjL | but curiosity aside... you can see it, death has spiked in all of the western EU and that doesn't just happen with every year's flu | 01:00 |
| AimHere | How fast has it gone down? That Euromomo graph had the tail end of the spike so close to the end that it might be they've not got all the figures in yet | 01:00 |
| LjL | yeah, possible | 01:00 |
| LjL | they caution against that in the bulletin | 01:00 |
| LjL | but some countries have a distinct inverse-V shape | 01:01 |
| LjL | others didn't | 01:01 |
| LjL | so i thought... those with the inverse-V shape probably have gotten past the peak of deaths already? but i don't know, if every country sends data at different paces and in different ways, it'll take a while to know | 01:01 |
| AimHere | That's kindof weird, since I'm only aware of Spain and Italy that have peaked out of the major European countries | 01:02 |
| Biep[m] | <tinwhiskers "livebrain: trying to convince pi"> I understand that in the US, for several vitamins there are more cases of problems due to hypervitaminosis than of problems due to hypovitaminosis. | 01:03 |
| oriba | The euromomo spike at the end also is very steep compared to the data before | 01:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 22:57 UTC: Gilead stock surges 15% after report says coronavirus drug trial shows encouraging early results: The University of Chicago Medicine recruited 125 coronavirus patients into Gilead's two late-stage clinical trials, 113 of whom were severely ill. → https://is.gd/SdzaNO | 01:03 |
| oriba | The Euromomo people should provide downloadable data... these tiny graphics... straining | 01:05 |
| oriba | ...not even possible to get a bigger image | 01:06 |
| LjL | AimHere, different kind of peak, though. but i don't know | 01:10 |
| LjL | oriba, it does look like a european institutional site | 01:13 |
| LjL | very signature | 01:13 |
| LjL | oriba, also, yes to steep, but the top is not higher than the 2016/2018 tops, and those graphs are already adjusted for... a number of things i don't understand | 01:14 |
| LjL | oh they've published a new bulletin since i looked... yesterday | 01:14 |
| LjL | Additional note this week: Because of the recent Easter period, there may have been extra delay in registration of deaths in the countries, hence making the interpretation of this week’s mortality estimates a bit more uncertain than is usually the case. | 01:15 |
| LjL | well italy is definitely steeper than the 2016 stuff now | 01:16 |
| LjL | so scrap what i said, it was with the previous bulletin in mind | 01:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:15 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live: NSW considers roster system for return to face-to-face learning in schools – latest news → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 01:18 |
| oriba | LjL: also to have in mind: the lockdown-impact might have slow down already what appears on Euromomo... no lockdown and the values might march up and up... but because of lag by incubation time and slow bureaucracies in Europe, the values likely go up ther nevertheless. | 01:21 |
| oriba | s/ther/there/ | 01:22 |
| LjL | oriba, well it does make me think the lockdowns were absolutely needed at any rate | 01:22 |
| LjL | next one who joins with "it's just a flu" parts as quickly as they joined, i swear | 01:22 |
| oriba | Ialso think they are needed. | 01:22 |
| oriba | hehe | 01:22 |
| oriba | some weeks ago Euromomo was quoted by some poeple to show that it's not more like flu. | 01:23 |
| oriba | Then Euromomo mentioned on their page, that they have delays | 01:23 |
| oriba | by averaging and other things | 01:24 |
| oriba | I missed to screenshotthat page | 01:24 |
| oriba | But now those people seem to have disappeared... | 01:24 |
| LjL | oriba, well, i also was saying at that point that the peaks looked visible (at least in italy, less so elsewhere) but were not as tall as those events in some other years | 01:25 |
| LjL | but i wasn't trying to downplay it, just a statement on what the graphs looked like | 01:25 |
| LjL | also i'm kind of curious what exactly happened in 2016 and 2018 now | 01:25 |
| Toadisattva | The president of Taiwan released a statement, I'm pretty impressed with everything they've done and continue to do | 01:25 |
| l0ndoner | Chinas figures are absoluteley outstanding... I mean to the point its just one big flat curve . Either they are brilliant or the figures are BS | 01:26 |
| Toadisattva | they've got the situation pretty under control, as much as you can in a situation like this, and they are now able to provide aid to others | 01:26 |
| Toadisattva | chinas figures are without question bs | 01:26 |
| oriba | LjL: in 2017/2018 at least in germany 22k or 25k people died because of flu. | 01:26 |
| oriba | maybe mismatch in the vaccines | 01:27 |
| LjL | oriba, but i guess you're right to point at the steepness. the steep curve may have been "chopped off" the by lockdown, but the fact they were being much steeper than those events in other years suggests they'd have gone up and up and up for quite a bit | 01:28 |
| oriba | LjL: yes, the going-up and up thing is what I had in mind | 01:29 |
| oriba | lets wait some days, how it looks when the rest of the data comes in... | 01:29 |
| oriba | Btw: the france data looks strange. In offloop as well as in JHU | 01:30 |
| Toadisattva | the push to end lockdowns and open up the spread is stronk | 01:30 |
| oriba | it's coming too early | 01:30 |
| LjL | oriba, do you understand what the actual difference between green and blue is on the euromomo graphs? | 01:30 |
| LjL | agreed on too early | 01:30 |
| Toadisattva | which I expect is a terrible idea given we still can't even supply adequate ppe and cleaning supplies to hospitals let alone the public at large | 01:31 |
| davros | how is mask production | 01:31 |
| l0ndoner | UK and hoping for April 27th partial lifting of lockdown got blown out of the water. But it wasn't a definitive date they had just pencilled in the date | 01:31 |
| davros | and testing | 01:31 |
| davros | there was a recent "at least 3 week extention", what date does that take us to | 01:31 |
| oriba | LjL: not sure... delay adjusted... correction on missing data (extrapolation)? | 01:32 |
| l0ndoner | Toadisattva: were seeing a second spike in old peoples homes and care centres here | 01:32 |
| davros | mid may i gues | 01:32 |
| LjL | oriba, i can't imagine how they'd fill in missing data though | 01:32 |
| LjL | well | 01:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 23:24 UTC: Gilead stock pops 16% after report says coronavirus drug trial shows encouraging early results: The University of Chicago Medicine recruited 125 coronavirus patients into Gilead's two late-stage clinical trials, 113 of whom were severely ill. → https://is.gd/SdzaNO | 01:32 |
| Toadisattva | what is making it spike in specifically those areas? shouldn't they be the most locked down? | 01:33 |
| LjL | it's probably something too complicated for me to want to understand anyway | 01:33 |
| oriba | aha, hehe | 01:33 |
| Toadisattva | too little too late but I moved most of my quickly dwindling investments to bonds | 01:33 |
| oriba | will go reading some statistical stuff now, maybe one day I can explain you Euromomo ;-) | 01:33 |
| LjL | Toadisattva, it's almost impossible "lock them down" completely. and once *one* worker who has COVID infects somenoe else, those are places where everyone will get infected in a heartbeat, including many deaths due to obvious reasons | 01:34 |
| Toadisattva | yeah that's true I suppose | 01:34 |
| Toadisattva | you get a bunch of people grouped in a building if one gets it everyone gets it | 01:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:30 UTC: Australia news: Australia coronavirus live: NSW considers roster system for return to face-to-face learning in schools – latest news → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 01:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network * at 23:41 UTC: ljl-covid: Add April 16 Civil protetion press conference → https://is.gd/F8KJSW | 01:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:45 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: NSW considers roster system for return to face-to-face learning in schools – latest news → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 01:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 23:58 UTC: Brazil president fires health minister over Covid-19 stand-off – as it happened: Dismissal comes after weeks-long stand-off; almost 700 test positive on French aircraft carrier. This blog is now closed. → https://is.gd/7HR06y | 02:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | germany: R_0=0.7 (RKI) | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I don't get it how our chancellor Mutti two days ago can talk about "R_0 is 1!!! just a 0.1 higher and in August we got doomsday!" | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the data was obvious to give it away since 2nd of april already | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.dkriesel.com/_media/coronaplot-germany.png | 02:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:12 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus live: NSW considers roster system for return to face-to-face learning in schools – latest news → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 02:23 |
| MinceR | isn't it supposed to be R_E? | 02:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it is, R_eff or whatever, but here everybody calls it R_0. sorry | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hi MinceR! | 02:26 |
| MinceR | hi again | 02:27 |
| iz | new york city daily cases are going back up again also.. 4/12 +8.0k 4/13 +6.7k 4/14 +7.3k 4/15 +11.4k | 02:27 |
| MinceR | those who call R_E "R_0" are wrong | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yoh | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | alas when enough do call it R_0 then nobody knows what you're talking about when you call it R_eff | 02:28 |
| MinceR | then they'll just continue being ignorant as usual | 02:29 |
| MinceR | no harm done | 02:29 |
| LjL | they are technically wrong, but even "experts" do it when talking at press conferences and they like. they don't have time to explain the subtle differences, and they just give up | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what do you expect, they are politicians, though even Drosten calls it R_0 in context of efficiency of NPI when it's clearly turning into R_eff | 02:30 |
| LjL | they won't just continue being ignorant. they will fail to understand an argument they may otherwise have understood, if with the wrong term for something | 02:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I seen this a 2h ago, when one of those politicians clearly didn't understand why a scientisct asked him to clearly state goal of german government: R_0=1 forever or R_0<08 and in a few weeks containment phase | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | context: we got "loosen the brake" on wednesday, most scientists consider it the wrong move | 02:34 |
| iz | looks like social distancing is working! let's stop doing it! | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and our Mutti doesn't state at all what's the strategic goal of our crisis management, rather she changes goals like other change underwear: one day it's "no overload of health care system" then "running doubling time = 10" then 14 and now "R_0=1" | 02:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:29 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump says 29 states could reopen 'relatively soon' as global deaths near 145,000: Brazil’s president fires health minister; IMF predicts zero growth in Latin America and Caribbean for decade to 2025; UK extends lockdown by three weeks. Follow the latest updates. → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 02:38 |
| Toadisattva | I'm rather concerned with the strong push to open everything back up | 02:38 |
| Toadisattva | it seems like we need to do a lot more manufacturing of basic supplies before we even start making that consideration | 02:38 |
| Toadisattva | maybe we have more ventilators than a month ago, but a lot of places are still without even ppe and good luck finding bleach or isopropyl anywhere | 02:39 |
| Toadisattva | if you open up when we still don't have to supplies for basic prevention, you're gonna have a bad time | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wish they all had referred to "the hammer and the dance" as common sense paper on strategy in this disaster management, end of February / start of March | 02:40 |
| Toadisattva | that is a really good paper | 02:40 |
| jester | try vinager to replace bleach | 02:41 |
| Toadisattva | I been using vinegar for my cleaning for years I managed to get a nice stock of that and use it freuqently | 02:41 |
| Toadisattva | is it effective for a virus though? | 02:42 |
| Toadisattva | I read one paper demonstrating that using peroxide and then vinegar was more effective at killing various molds and spores than bleach | 02:42 |
| Toadisattva | but not sure on viruses I haven't done that research yet | 02:43 |
| jester | uvlight | 02:43 |
| davros | UV light in a box , with the inner surface coated in aluminium foil is something i've seen online, | 02:44 |
| davros | would that work for decontaminating food packages | 02:44 |
| jester | https://www.topuvlight.com/topuvlight.php?sub1=bingtopuv | 02:45 |
| Toadisattva | I saw some research on r/covid-19 yesterday that UV-C is not very effective against SARS-CoV-2 | 02:45 |
| davros | or would it make the food toxic :) | 02:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 00:39 UTC: Gilead stock pops 16% after report says coronavirus drug trial shows encouraging early results: The University of Chicago Medicine recruited 125 coronavirus patients into Gilead's two late-stage clinical trials, 113 of whom were severely ill. → https://is.gd/SdzaNO | 02:45 |
| davros | yikes | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | iirc acetic acid dissolved the hull but it recombines when you dilute the acid. Poor man's gen lab, treat virus with vinegar to create new mutations / hybrids of different viri in your test tube | 02:45 |
| jester | https://xsterilize.com/articles/powerful-uv-lighter/?l=en&c=usd&vndr=1015&affiliate_id=2872&transaction_id=e352c4f49b234f619269fc3ebf9e8d94&subid=&subid2=&subid3=&subid4=&subid5= | 02:45 |
| davros | i did get hold of a UV light and was hoping it would have some application to reduce the amount of cleaning products i get through | 02:45 |
| Toadisattva | I bought a bunch of denatured alcohol (ethanol + methanol) due to not being able to access isopropyl anymore | 02:46 |
| Toadisattva | it's at least in stock | 02:46 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Toadisattva: depends massively on wavelength, it's quite interesting | 02:46 |
| Toadisattva | yeah i imagine so I didn't read the study in depth just skimmed the abstract so I'm not sure what wevelengths were tested | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | there are specific wavelengths to break enzymes or to cause other effects. IIRC for viri it's some 250nm | 02:48 |
| jester | moonshine water/yeast/suger | 02:48 |
| Toadisattva | I'm sertiously thinking I hsould buy a still | 02:48 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | davros: make sure it has the right wavelength, iirc mercury lamps do | 02:49 |
| davros | ok | 02:49 |
| davros | unfortunately the thing is documented in chinese.. but i'll take a look | 02:49 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Maryland governor says now is 'the worst possible time' to lift coronavirus restrictions (10626 votes) | https://redd.it/g2mq7i | 02:51 |
| Toadisattva | as soon as we lift restrictions we are going to go right back to exponential growth | 02:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 00:44 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump says 29 states could reopen 'relatively soon' as global deaths near 145,000: Brazil’s president fires health minister; IMF predicts zero growth in Latin America and Caribbean for decade to 2025; UK extends lockdown by three weeks. Follow the latest updates. → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 02:52 |
| ryouma | is there a calculus that has been done for some interest groups that they are better off with removing restrictions now, in which they improve at the cost of deaths? has this been calculated? | 02:52 |
| Toadisattva | well if we don't lift restrictions soon we will see economic crash | 02:53 |
| Toadisattva | but maybe that's not such a bad tihing? our economies have been in need a restructuring for a long time | 02:53 |
| Toadisattva | now might be the perfect time to implement that and start realistically entertaining ideas like UBI | 02:53 |
| davros | "the economy will crash because everyone is only buying what they need.." | 02:53 |
| Toadisattva | walmart isn't having any problems with sales | 02:54 |
| Toadisattva | nor amazon | 02:54 |
| ryouma | (i am reminded of the paper that looked at us poliitcs and whether it reflected teh will of the citizens and concluded that effectively the us was an oligarchy in the sense that the things that oligarchs would be better off get passed and signed into law but the things that citizens would be better off do not -- not trying to spike conspiracy theory, just wondering if the economic analyssys was done) | 02:54 |
| Toadisattva | :P | 02:54 |
| Toadisattva | people wanna spend their money, just on bleach and masks | 02:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:11 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports new record high of 728 cases: Most of Singapore's new cases were foreign workers who are housed in dormitories, at which several infection clusters have been found. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 03:14 |
| Spec | > “It has revealed a new dynamic of this virus: that it can be carried by normal, healthy people who have no idea whatsoever that they are carrying it,” Esper told NBC’s “Today” morning show. | 03:30 |
| Spec | man we've known/suspected strongly about asymptomatic transmission for quite some time now | 03:31 |
| Toadisattva | we've known this for months now | 03:31 |
| Toadisattva | lol where do they come up with this stuff | 03:31 |
| Toadisattva | are people really that uninformed? | 03:33 |
| Spec | i think they want this narrative to cover up systemic incompetence | 03:33 |
| Toadisattva | am 3 months ahead on basic knowledge kuz I spend 5 minutes a day scrolling the reddit front page while I poop? | 03:33 |
| Toadisattva | :P | 03:33 |
| BruntLIVE | Karma up | 03:34 |
| BruntLIVE | poop hands | 03:34 |
| iz | spain's daily new cases since partial reopening this week, including 4/16: 4/12 +3.8k, 4/13 +3.3k, 4/14 +2.4k, 4/15 +5.1k, 4/16 +7.3k | 03:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:21 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Trump says 29 states could reopen 'relatively soon' as global deaths near 145,000: Brazil’s president fires health minister; IMF predicts zero growth in Latin America and Caribbean for decade to 2025; UK extends lockdown by three weeks. Follow the latest updates. → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 03:43 |
| Hoffman | iz: iT'lL bE fInE jUsT rEoPeN tHe EcOnOmY | 03:43 |
| lf94 | lol | 03:43 |
| lf94 | I hope they reopen everything | 03:43 |
| lf94 | Lessons need to be learned | 03:43 |
| Hoffman | let the world burn | 03:43 |
| lf94 | The current world is business driven | 03:43 |
| lf94 | We need to destroy the business brain | 03:43 |
| lf94 | We need a science driven world | 03:44 |
| rager | maybe we need a world where all things can drive it | 03:45 |
| Hoffman | no we can leave some things out | 03:45 |
| Hoffman | a lot of things actually | 03:45 |
| rager | like dynamically typed languages? | 03:45 |
| lf94 | yes | 03:45 |
| Hoffman | hey now | 03:46 |
| lf94 | statically homotopy type theorhetic driven world | 03:46 |
| rager | science can't answer all questions | 03:47 |
| rager | it can't tell you what is good, for instance | 03:47 |
| Hoffman | it could tell you that war is good for absolutely nothing | 03:48 |
| rager | could it, though? | 03:48 |
| Hoffman | HUH? Yeah. | 03:48 |
| lf94 | rager why couldnt science tell you? | 03:48 |
| lf94 | rager: you conduct a study | 03:49 |
| lf94 | lol | 03:49 |
| rager | of what? | 03:49 |
| rager | war does a lot of things | 03:49 |
| rager | and it does a lot of them very well | 03:49 |
| Hoffman | I'll say it again | 03:50 |
| rager | now, prove that those things are good or bad | 03:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 01:43 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports new record high of 728 cases: Most of Singapore's new cases were foreign workers who are housed in dormitories, at which several infection clusters have been found. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 03:50 |
| Hoffman | science could tell you that war is good for, absolutely nothing | 03:50 |
| rager | are you a scratched WAR album? | 03:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 01:45 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: 20 residents of Newmarch aged care home in Sydney confirmed cases of Covid-19 – latest news → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 03:57 |
| jester | meat packing plant workers test positive | 03:57 |
| jester | shutdown planed | 03:57 |
| Hoffman | it happened 3 times alreadu | 03:58 |
| Hoffman | already | 03:58 |
| ryouma | idk, i am pretty confused about a lot of things and not sure about the latest reliable-seeming scientific evidence on them. like surfaces duration. so it is not surprisign if there were some new, more reliable data on asymptomatic transmission in this fast moving crisis. and i wouldn't efel like somebody who didn't know that were not an idiot. | 04:01 |
| ryouma | (then again i didn't read the article so what do i know) | 04:02 |
| ryouma | the ones i do not forgive are the ones whose job it is to make decisions but who fail to seek out the best science | 04:03 |
| ryouma | or who weigh human lives or certain populations lower than others | 04:03 |
| Birosso | Was wondering why the channel has been so dead today. | 04:03 |
| Birosso | I didn't scroll down! | 04:03 |
| ryouma | ? | 04:03 |
| ryouma | oh | 04:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:00 UTC: China says its economy shrank by 6.8% in the first quarter as the country battled coronavirus: China reported that its first quarter GDP contracted by 6.8% in 2020 from a year ago as the coronavirus outbreak seriously impacted the world's second largest economy. → https://is.gd/wp0OaE | 04:04 |
| Toadisattva | I wonder if many companies really are gonna move their manufacturing out of china | 04:07 |
| Toadisattva | hard to beat that cheap slave labor for making obscene profits | 04:07 |
| tinwhiskers | Toadisattva: my guess is there will be some industries move production back to their home countries, such as ppe and other essential stuff, but the cheap consumer crap that we but from China is still going to come from China | 04:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:08 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports new record high of 728 cases: Most of Singapore's new cases were foreign workers who are housed in dormitories, at which several infection clusters have been found. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 04:12 |
| tinwhiskers | (that's not to say everything China makes is crap) | 04:12 |
| Toadisattva | sounds about right | 04:12 |
| Toadisattva | I've actually been pretty impressed with a lot of the stuff coming out of china over the past few years, there has been a pretty good rise in quality in most products I've encountered | 04:15 |
| ryouma | it's a thing that goes from one country to another as they develop | 04:16 |
| Toadisattva | course I've been saying for some time that as long as they make all our stuff they've more or less got us by the balls | 04:16 |
| Hoffman | for some time | 04:17 |
| Toadisattva | yeah I've been teling people that for many a year now | 04:17 |
| Hoffman | prophetic | 04:17 |
| ryouma | i feel like you are on a porch, in a rocking chair, and we are at your feet | 04:18 |
| Toadisattva | with muh dog and muh pipe | 04:18 |
| ryouma | just don't ask us to pull a finger | 04:18 |
| Toadisattva | damn kids needa get off my lawn | 04:18 |
| Hoffman | tell us more about supplier power | 04:18 |
| Toadisattva | honestly I'm hoping this kicks us in the pants for automation and we get robots already | 04:19 |
| Toadisattva | then we can implement that UBI and sit back and make art and stuff and maybe be less stressed and agro | 04:19 |
| ryouma | (just as a note, ubi would literally kill me, as i am bedridden and have to hire helpers, with no assistance provided for that, in order to live; with ubi that would be even more impossible) | 04:19 |
| iz | we're almost at UBI already, so might as well :b | 04:19 |
| iz | ubi doesn't mean you can't have a job, does it? | 04:20 |
| ryouma | it means the price required for it is too high | 04:20 |
| Toadisattva | no you can and should still work | 04:20 |
| iz | ryouma: oh, you mean being realistic and thinking about how it would be paid for? | 04:21 |
| Toadisattva | the UBI is just barely keeping you at the poverty line you got a roof over your head and foodin your belly | 04:21 |
| iz | Toadisattva: yeah, that's how i understood UBI also | 04:21 |
| ryouma | iz: no, i am just stating a fact about those who need to hire helpers. they will not be able to. | 04:22 |
| Toadisattva | I don't think that's the case at all, there will still be plenty of people to work in helping postions | 04:23 |
| ryouma | i am not so high-minded and macroecon aware that i can give you a dissertation on the geopolitics of it | 04:23 |
| ryouma | (frankly i am not sure anybody in macro knows much either; they all seem confused to me) | 04:23 |
| Toadisattva | also wouldn't it help you to pay for those helpers? | 04:24 |
| iz | ryouma: why wouldn't they be able to hire helpers if UBI existed? | 04:24 |
| Toadisattva | I assume you may already be recieving some kind of disability payments that you are using to pay them? | 04:24 |
| ryouma | you are all optimistic that it would work out somehow and i would not fall through the cracks due to a stroke of the pen | 04:24 |
| ryouma | that is not a luxury those who have to deal with it can afford | 04:25 |
| Toadisattva | how do you afford helpers now? | 04:25 |
| iz | i'm totally confused about what you are trying to say, but i'm just gonna leave it | 04:25 |
| ryouma | i will leave it too as i have too much rsi to go into it if it is not clear from what i said | 04:25 |
| iz | fair nuff.. i finally switched keyboard layouts years ago due to that | 04:26 |
| iz | but that is a whole ordeal in itself | 04:26 |
| Toadisattva | in any case now is a great opportunity to try novel approaches | 04:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 02:19 UTC: China says its economy shrank by 6.8% in the first quarter as the country battled coronavirus: China reported that its first quarter GDP contracted by 6.8% in 2020 from a year ago as the coronavirus outbreak seriously impacted the world's second largest economy. → https://is.gd/wp0OaE | 04:26 |
| Toadisattva | restructer economic systems and distribution chains | 04:26 |
| ryouma | i do, however, get concerned about practially aeverybody trying to use the pandemic to push an agenda of one kind or another. i am not saying all the agendas are bad, buyt that the top priority is business as usual. by the looks of things. | 04:27 |
| Toadisattva | make some strides toward hitting those climate change goals | 04:27 |
| iz | i agree w/ that, re: sketchy about using it to push agendas.. even if i do happen to agree w/ that agenda | 04:27 |
| Toadisattva | business as usual is def foremost on the agenda for every country and business | 04:27 |
| Toadisattva | which is unfortunate, because it is a true opportunity for much needed change | 04:28 |
| ecov | Toadisattva the armchair authoritarian | 04:28 |
| iz | change in times of great stress is rarely good | 04:29 |
| Toadisattva | this has really shown how fragile our current system is | 04:29 |
| Toadisattva | but also how robust | 04:29 |
| ecov | what iz said | 04:29 |
| Toadisattva | isn't that the only time that things do change? | 04:29 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 04:29 |
| iz | no, that's when things usually change for the worse | 04:29 |
| ecov | what | 04:29 |
| iz | historically | 04:30 |
| iz | trying not to invoke godwin's law, but there are some classic examples | 04:30 |
| Toadisattva | lol | 04:31 |
| ryouma | this --- 19:29 <iz> change in times of great stress is rarely good | 04:32 |
| Toadisattva | isn't that a perspective thing though, you can also cite many examples where positive change came out of chaos or hardship | 04:32 |
| ecov | naive perspective | 04:33 |
| iz | usually no | 04:33 |
| iz | it's like getting into a relationship when you are sad about being broken up | 04:33 |
| iz | people are willing to accept crazy stuff when things are going bad | 04:33 |
| ryouma | humans revert to even more demographic warfare, scapegoating, lawlessness, and authoritarian values rise a la altemeyer | 04:34 |
| Toadisattva | so given the current situation what is your hypothesis? | 04:36 |
| ryouma | i have no clue but the world is even more dangerous now | 04:37 |
| Toadisattva | like I see us ultimately being better prepared with better medical and manufacturing infrastructure coming out of this | 04:37 |
| Toadisattva | do you not? | 04:37 |
| ryouma | yes that could occur | 04:37 |
| adventurer | Does anyone know where I can find information on how many tests are done per day in Australia | 04:38 |
| adventurer | for the whole country or by state | 04:38 |
| ryouma | "boomer remover", social darwinism, eugenics-like sentiments, those who are doing well now "deserve" to do better, those who are not "deserve" what they get, religious overtones, generational warfare, pretexts for less privacy, pretexts for less freedom, pretexts for wars and other events long desired by political actors | 04:40 |
| PlanckWalk | adventurer: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/coronavirus-cases-data-reveals-how-covid-19-spreads-in-australia/12060704 | 04:42 |
| adventurer | Thanks PlanckWalk | 04:42 |
| Toadisattva | those are certainly possibilties, but we also have the possibilites of forging stronger alliances, creating more resiliant infrustructures, creating more sustainable industries, implementing more beneficial socail welfare programs | 04:43 |
| adventurer | yeah it's true ryouma they are doing different levels of welfare | 04:43 |
| PlanckWalk | There's also the "national dashboard" by the government, but it's crap | 04:43 |
| adventurer | the already poor get less | 04:43 |
| Toadisattva | honestly I'd say my biggest hope is that some level of accountability comes out of all this | 04:44 |
| adventurer | yeah the wiki is now following that and i think it's crap too | 04:44 |
| ryouma | pretexts for removign even more safety net, national/racial purity appeals | 04:44 |
| Toadisattva | business as usual has been an unsustainable downward spiral toward destruction for too long now | 04:44 |
| adventurer | those already earning more get a lot more in AU | 04:44 |
| Toadisattva | if anything will give us a chance to make some positive changes on a global scale,I think this is it | 04:44 |
| adventurer | well i have been isolated and treated as dirt long before corona so | 04:45 |
| adventurer | it's not all that different really | 04:45 |
| Toadisattva | I do tend to agree that we probably won't and that doom and gloom scenario of more big brother and ongoing warfare is probably the more likely route for us | 04:45 |
| adventurer | but well it's very worrying but it seems...maybe...au is doing well or as well as could be hoped perhaps | 04:45 |
| adventurer | but i don't know | 04:46 |
| Toadisattva | but I try to remain optimistic, kuz being depressed and hopeless ain't helping anything | 04:46 |
| adventurer | I don'tn want the government controlling more of our lives too badly. I feel before all this our government was already sort of treating poorer people not too good to say the least | 04:48 |
| adventurer | i hope the vaccine comes soon and they roll things back | 04:48 |
| adventurer | <ryouma> "boomer remover", social darwinism, eugenics-like sentiments, those who are doing well now "deserve" to do better, those who are not "deserve" what they get, religious overtones, generational warfare, pretexts for less privacy, pretexts for less freedom, pretexts for wars and other events long desired by political actors | 04:49 |
| Toadisattva | south korea just implemented a bunch of the stuff I was talking about | 04:58 |
| Toadisattva | a "new green deal" | 04:58 |
| Toadisattva | spain is going full UBI | 05:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:08 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: 20 residents of Newmarch aged care home in Sydney confirmed cases of Covid-19 – latest news → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 05:17 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: ‘Insider trading’ senator named to ‘reopen America’ coronavirus task force (10673 votes) | https://redd.it/g2od1w | 05:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:22 UTC: Coronavirus live news: China GDP shrinks 6.8% as Trump says 29 states could reopen 'relatively soon': Brazil’s president fires health minister; IMF predicts zero growth in Latin America and Caribbean for decade to 2025; UK extends lockdown by three weeks. Follow the latest updates. → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 05:31 |
| LjL | 6.8% is more than what is predicted for Italy (5% iirc) | 05:33 |
| ryouma | it seems surprisingly good | 05:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 03:40 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: 20 residents of Newmarch aged care home in Sydney confirmed cases of Covid-19 – latest news → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 05:46 |
| pyna | https://i.imgur.com/Mt6RUiu.gifv | 05:53 |
| ryouma | reminiscent of hurricane katrina nursing homes | 05:57 |
| ryouma | if it isn't, those need to be remembered | 05:57 |
| ryouma | Toadisattva: h2o2 then vinegar better than vinegar alone? i have heard from a german that vinegar is thought good against sars-cov-2 but everything i have seen in english says it is not. | 06:01 |
| ryouma | first sentence referring to mold. | 06:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:01 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports new record high of 728 cases: Most of Singapore's new cases were foreign workers who are housed in dormitories, at which several infection clusters have been found. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 06:07 |
| yuriwho | you have probably all seen this by now but if you haven't GOOD NEWS! https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/16/early-peek-at-data-on-gilead-coronavirus-drug-suggests-patients-are-responding-to-treatment/ | 06:09 |
| yuriwho | %t | 06:09 |
| Brainstorm | yuriwho: From www.statnews.com: Gilead data suggests coronavirus patients are responding to treatment | 06:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:04 UTC: Coronavirus live news: China GDP contracts 6.8% as Wuhan death toll revised up 50%: Brazil’s president fires health minister; IMF predicts zero growth in Latin America and Caribbean for decade to 2025; UK extends lockdown by three weeks. Follow the latest updates. → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 06:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 04:09 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Coronavirus India statewise spreading → https://is.gd/H5xhlq | 06:29 |
| yuriwho | https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/16/more-small-molecule-clinical-data-against-covid-19-as-of-april-16 | 06:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 04:23 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Wuhan death toll revised up 50% as China's economy suffers worst fall on record: Brazil’s president fires health minister; IMF predicts zero growth in Latin America and Caribbean for decade to 2025; UK extends lockdown by three weeks. Follow the latest updates. → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 06:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:35 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports new record high of 728 cases: Most of Singapore's new cases were foreign workers who are housed in dormitories, at which several infection clusters have been found. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 06:43 |
| jester | a coutry ready for the virus | 06:49 |
| jester | country | 06:49 |
| jester | https://i.imgur.com/cpTI3nL.jpg | 06:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 04:56 UTC: China says its economy shrank by 6.8% in the first quarter as the country battled coronavirus: China reported that its first quarter GDP contracted by 6.8% in 2020 from a year ago as the coronavirus outbreak seriously impacted the world's second largest economy. → https://is.gd/wp0OaE | 07:05 |
| adventurer | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3rTnL5wJ74 | 07:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:09 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: 20 residents of Newmarch aged care home in Sydney confirmed cases of Covid-19 – latest news → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 07:20 |
| ecrockz123 | There should be detailed investigation on China for COVID-19. It has ruined many organization and affected life all over world. | 07:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:23 UTC: Coronavirus live news: Wuhan death toll revised up 50% as China's economy suffers worst fall on record: Brazil’s president fires health minister; IMF predicts zero growth in Latin America and Caribbean for decade to 2025; UK extends lockdown by three weeks. Follow the latest updates. → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 07:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 05:45 UTC: Australia coronavirus updates live: Tasmanian man's death brings national toll to 64 – latest news: 20 residents of aged care home in Sydney confirmed cases of Covid-19, as NSW considers roster system for return to face-to-face learning in schools. Follow all the latest news, live → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 07:49 |
| adventurer | and the second part https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJynOMMM_nU | 07:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 05:55 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports new record high of 728 cases: Most of Singapore's new cases were foreign workers who are housed in dormitories, at which several infection clusters have been found. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 08:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:04 UTC: China's Wuhan raises coronavirus death toll by 50% after city revises figures: The Wuhan government said total confirmed infections in the city have been revised upwards by 325 to 50,333, while there are now 1,290 more deaths totaling 3,869, Xinhua News Agency reported. → https://is.gd/3Epq3R | 08:11 |
| PTY | how will that show up on the dashboard? Is it retroactive or will those be seen as new cases that appear now? | 08:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:16 UTC: Australia coronavirus updates live: Tasmanian man's death brings national toll to 64 – latest news: 20 residents of aged care home in Sydney confirmed cases of Covid-19, as NSW considers roster system for return to face-to-face learning in schools. Follow all the latest news, live → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 08:25 |
| tinwhiskers | PTY: usually corrections are not retroactive | 08:27 |
| PTY | thanks | 08:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 06:37 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: Singapore reports new record high of 728 cases: Most of Singapore's new cases were foreign workers who are housed in dormitories, at which several infection clusters have been found. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 08:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 06:46 UTC: Australia coronavirus updates live: Tasmanian man's death brings national toll to 64 – latest news: 20 residents of aged care home in Sydney confirmed cases of Covid-19, as NSW considers roster system for return to face-to-face learning in schools. Follow all the latest news, live → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 08:54 |
| truthr | all this talk about respirators..respirators..80% of people that go on them for covid 19 die...should we really be talking about ECMO machines? and is the reason we are not talking about them because they are extremely expensive and require many staff to monitor and run? So since it is so impractical, there has been an agreement between gov and mass media not to bring up ECMO machines? | 09:05 |
| truthr | because the public would panic and demand something that is impossible (ECMO for everyone) | 09:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:01 UTC: Stocks jump despite record slump for Chinese GDP - business live: Rolling coverage of the latest economic and financial news as the Chinese economy contracted for the first time on record following the Covid-19 outbreak → https://is.gd/a8G6J7 | 09:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:15 UTC: UK coronavirus live: help for England's fishing industry as Covid-19 bites: England’s fishermen thrown ‘lifeline’ by the government, after Dominic Raab announced lockdown measures will be extended by three weeks → https://is.gd/pAJOdS | 09:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 07:26 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China's Wuhan city revises death toll higher; Germany cases jump: Wuhan city, the center of the coronavirus outbreak in China, said that a local investigation found another 1,290 deaths from the disease. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 09:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:33 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Australia coronavirus updates live: 42-year-old becomes youngest to die of Covid-19 in Australia – latest news → https://is.gd/xtM9Tz | 09:44 |
| Flaviker | !covid | 09:53 |
| CoronaBot | Total cases: 2,184,714 (+3,406), deaths: 146,898 (+1,427), recovered: 553,227. Active cases: 1,484,589, 1,427,988 are in a mild condition, 56,601 are in a serious condition. Mortality: 6.72%, case fatality rate: 20.98%. Case rate: 95,002/24h, death rate: 6,996/24h. Last update: 11m ago. | 09:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 07:50 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: UK coronavirus live: London mayor urges government to back mask wearing on public transport → https://is.gd/pAJOdS | 09:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 08:01 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Economia → https://is.gd/VQClvy | 10:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:04 UTC: Stocks jump despite record slump for Chinese GDP - business live: Rolling coverage of the latest economic and financial news as the Chinese economy contracted for the first time on record following the Covid-19 outbreak → https://is.gd/a8G6J7 | 10:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:12 UTC: China's Wuhan raises coronavirus death toll by 50% after city revises figures: The Wuhan government said total confirmed infections in the city have been revised upwards by 325 to 50,333, while there are now 1,290 more deaths totaling 3,869, Xinhua News Agency reported. → https://is.gd/3Epq3R | 10:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 08:20 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China's Wuhan city revises death toll higher; Germany cases jump: Wuhan city, the center of the coronavirus outbreak in China, said that a local investigation found another 1,290 deaths from the disease. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 10:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 08:30 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: 'I need gowns, can I call Burberry?' NHS trust boss asks → https://is.gd/cvwXat | 10:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 08:35 UTC: Coronavirus live news: China denies cover-up as Wuhan death toll revised up by 50%: Brazil’s president fires health minister; IMF predicts zero economic growth in Latin America and Caribbean; UK extends lockdown by three weeks → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 10:42 |
| \n3p\ | China lie everyday | 10:55 |
| mefistofeles | \n3p\: all countries lie everyday | 10:58 |
| \n3p\ | Democratic countries have check and balances. A free press. | 10:59 |
| mefistofeles | that doesn't mean they cannot lie | 10:59 |
| mefistofeles | meadi is pretty much manipulated in many of those | 11:00 |
| mefistofeles | media* | 11:00 |
| \n3p\ | if you want to believe that China lies the same that the rest of countries for it's ok. I'm not stupid to believe that. | 11:01 |
| mefistofeles | \n3p\: ok, cool | 11:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 09:00 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China's Wuhan city revises death toll higher; Germany cases jump: Wuhan city, the center of the coronavirus outbreak in China, said that a local investigation found another 1,290 deaths from the disease. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 11:03 |
| mefistofeles | France data has been really screwed lately | 11:11 |
| mefistofeles | they are not showing slowdown now | 11:11 |
| mefistofeles | Spain spiking up again, sad | 11:11 |
| calbasi_matrix | <mefistofeles "Spain spiking up again, sad"> Really, I think here in Spain the situation is "stabilized"... | 11:14 |
| calbasi_matrix | I think you can see it if you use 7 days mobile averages... | 11:14 |
| calbasi_matrix | Like Italy, in fact... | 11:14 |
| calbasi_matrix | Talking about deads, what are for me more trustly... | 11:15 |
| calbasi_matrix | Well, deads are understimate, because just hospitalaries are accounted. | 11:17 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: To keep fans occupied while in quarantine, Pink Floyd will release unseen, rare, or archived material from their vault and stream it for free on YouTube. (10010 votes) | https://redd.it/g2qqg4 | 11:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 09:17 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Cina → https://is.gd/GEawsP | 11:17 |
| calbasi_matrix | Catalonia count all other deads 2 days ago, and the number get doubled, from 3500 to 7000 | 11:17 |
| mefistofeles | calbasi_matrix: one sec | 11:18 |
| calbasi_matrix | But Spaniard authorities have not count all this deads yet. For example, only in Madrid there are more than 6000 deads in eldery houses not assigned to Coronavirus | 11:19 |
| mefistofeles | calbasi_matrix: https://i.imgur.com/lIfhaDq.png | 11:19 |
| calbasi_matrix | <mefistofeles "calbasi: https://i.imgur.com/lIf"> But there are infected? deads? day to day data or several days averages? | 11:20 |
| mefistofeles | calbasi_matrix: that's New cases vs Total cases | 11:20 |
| mefistofeles | which is the best way to visualize slowdown/spike, imho | 11:21 |
| mefistofeles | well, the best way I've known :P | 11:22 |
| calbasi_matrix | Sometimes new cases depends on testing: if a country double their testing capacity in a week, you can wait an increasing about the number of detected cases... | 11:22 |
| calbasi_matrix | Look at deads in Spain... Situation is improving... Just stabilized arround 550 deads/day | 11:22 |
| mefistofeles | sure, that's why this visualization works, because that would be included in the slope | 11:23 |
| ynhof[m] | %data india | 11:23 |
| Brainstorm | ynhof[m]: In all areas, India, there are 13510 cases (0.0% of the population) and 448 deaths (3.3% of cases) as of 3 minutes ago. 286714 tests were performed (4.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=India for time series data. | 11:23 |
| calbasi_matrix | In the worse times they are arround 800 | 11:23 |
| calbasi_matrix | Same situation than Italy | 11:23 |
| mefistofeles | calbasi_matrix: yes, but you see that last peak there? That may mean deads peaking in a week or so | 11:23 |
| calbasi_matrix | But not the same like France or UK, where deads are at maximums | 11:23 |
| mefistofeles | *deaths | 11:24 |
| calbasi_matrix | <mefistofeles "calbasi: yes, but you see that l"> It's possible, if this peak is not due to the increasing of testings (what is, in fact, happening) | 11:24 |
| calbasi_matrix | <mefistofeles "*deaths"> Sure. I beg you pardon, my English is not the best :-p | 11:24 |
| mefistofeles | calbasi_matrix: it's not unless they increased testing and getting a more positive ration, which even so, then means they do have much more cases than what they thought and it's not testing | 11:25 |
| mefistofeles | not because of testing, I mean | 11:25 |
| mefistofeles | calbasi_matrix: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54XLXg4fYsc you can check why this visualization works there | 11:26 |
| Biep[m] | We have a new meaning for The world's biggest drug trial. | 11:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:22 UTC: Coronavirus live news: China denies cover-up as Wuhan death toll revised up by 50%: Brazil’s president fires health minister; IMF predicts zero economic growth in Latin America and Caribbean; UK extends lockdown by three weeks → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 11:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 09:41 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: London mayor urges government to back mask wearing on public transport → https://is.gd/pAJOdS | 11:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 10:00 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China's Wuhan city revises death toll higher; Germany cases jump: Wuhan city, the center of the coronavirus outbreak in China, said that a local investigation found another 1,290 deaths from the disease. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 12:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:10 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: London mayor urges government to back mask wearing on public transport → https://is.gd/pAJOdS | 12:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:27 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/M4MVMq | 12:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:31 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Brasile → https://is.gd/SB0LPp | 12:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 10:41 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia - Impatto Economico → https://is.gd/morHn0 | 12:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 10:46 UTC: Coronavirus live news: China denies cover-up as Wuhan death toll revised up by 50%: Brazil’s president fires health minister; IMF predicts zero economic growth in Latin America and Caribbean; UK extends lockdown by three weeks → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 12:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 11:02 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: Hancock unable to promise MPs some hospitals won’t run out of gowns this weekend → https://is.gd/pAJOdS | 13:05 |
| Hello_0 | remdesvir | 13:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:08 UTC: Coronavirus live updates: China's Wuhan city revises death toll higher; Germany cases jump: Wuhan city, the center of the coronavirus outbreak in China, said that a local investigation found another 1,290 deaths from the disease. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 13:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:10 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: China's Wuhan city revises death toll higher; Russia cases jump again → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 13:19 |
| Butterfly^ | https://i.imgur.com/ofRDRbB.png | 13:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:16 UTC: Investors should be cautious on the potential for Gilead's drug Remdesivir, analysts says: Remdesivir was one of the first medicines identified as a contender to treat Covid-19 given it showed promise in the past in treating SARS and MERS. → https://is.gd/AOphbB | 13:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 11:28 UTC: (news): Coronavirus: 'I need gowns, can I call Burberry?' NHS trust boss asks → https://is.gd/cvwXat | 13:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:36 UTC: Coronavirus: China's Wuhan city revises death toll higher; Russia cases jump again: Wuhan city, the center of the coronavirus outbreak in China, said that a local investigation found another 1,290 deaths from the disease. → https://is.gd/G76T08 | 13:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 11:43 UTC: 5 things to know before the stock market opens Friday: The Dow is set to surge Friday on a report that said Gilead Sciences' drug Remdesivir showed effectiveness in treating Covid-19. → https://is.gd/gRCsYt | 13:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:00 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: OMS → https://is.gd/MmPf5W | 14:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:06 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Cases in Russia jump, Google told to respect data privacy → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 14:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 12:23 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia - Politica → https://is.gd/Pfxg0G | 14:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:37 UTC: Google told to respect Europe's privacy rules as it works on a coronavirus tracing app: Google has been pressured to closely follow Europe's data privacy rules with the coronavirus tracing apps that it's developing alongside Apple. → https://is.gd/TxlNs0 | 14:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 12:51 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Sanofi says it can mass produce vaccine, if it works; cases in Russia jump → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 14:58 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: 59-year-old Lawyer for Louisiana Evangelical Megachurch who Defied Social Distancing Orders Is In the Hospital with Coronavirus After Attending a Packed Palm Sunday Service – but he Insists he Has No Idea How he Tested Positive (10028 votes) | https://redd.it/g2tel6 | 15:01 |
| qkall | https://www.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/g2tel6/59yearold_lawyer_for_louisiana_evangelical/ | 15:02 |
| qkall | ....crap sorry... i meant to paste that in another chat | 15:02 |
| qkall | -_- | 15:02 |
| brate | Hi @ all | 15:06 |
| l0ndoner | o/.... | 15:11 |
| l0ndoner | China admitted its covid-19 figures were BS.. | 15:17 |
| l0ndoner | jaw hit the floor | 15:18 |
| l0ndoner | I would still love to know how the outbreak happened in Wuhan | 15:20 |
| derpadmin | l0ndoner : curious too | 15:20 |
| msc386 | It Did? | 15:24 |
| msc386 | Whoa..... | 15:24 |
| msc386 | that's news.... | 15:24 |
| msc386 | I have to go... please hold that thought.... but, wow! | 15:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:24 UTC: (news): Moderna soars after getting $483 million in federal funding for coronavirus vaccine development → https://is.gd/ohpRWU | 15:27 |
| MinceR | lol | 15:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 13:36 UTC: Coronavirus live news: China denies cover-up as Wuhan death toll revised up by 50%: Brazil’s president fires health minister; IMF predicts zero economic growth in Latin America and Caribbean; UK extends lockdown by three weeks → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 15:41 |
| ynhof[m] | Remember we talked about this particular country that was described as roaming about without any restrictions? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/04/16/sweden-has-shown-not-tackle-coronavirus-fights-now-save-face/ | 15:44 |
| ynhof[m] | Sad news | 15:44 |
| ubLXI | l0ndoner: i haven't looked into that story yet. i doubt they said "damn, you got me". but why would your jaw hit the floor? weren't you expecting revisions once their authorities caught up with deaths outside hospitals? | 15:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:43 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Regno Unito → https://is.gd/rQ6Wh5 | 15:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 13:51 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Sanofi says it can mass produce vaccine, if it works; cases in Russia jump → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 15:56 |
| azy | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCSXNGc7pfs | 15:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 13:58 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Campania → https://is.gd/kIo2vX | 16:03 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: US Intelligence alerted NATO and Israel to a disease outbreak in Wuhan, China during the second week of November 2019 (10193 votes) | https://redd.it/g2tuk8 | 16:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 14:13 UTC: Question on Corona Relief Fund: Just out of curiosity... my parents filed me as a dependent in 2018, but I filed as independent in 2019. Should I be getting the relief? They haven’t filed their taxes for 2019 so I have no idea... I really need this as I lost my job and really don’t know where to go. → https://is.gd/8xYFIx | 16:17 |
| ubLXI | There are 19 million people in the metropolitan area of Wuhan; I don't know why an upwards revision of 1300 deaths, after the storm passed, is considered unexpected news; I'd be happy for someone to tell me | 16:18 |
| Toadisattva | I guess ppl are surprised the ccp is admitting anything at all? | 16:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 14:21 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Sanofi says it can mass produce vaccine, if it works; cases in Russia jump → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 16:24 |
| ThomCat[m] | So I noticed on my COVID-19 Splunk dashboard that New York's deaths per day went wayyyyyyyy up yesterday. Did they change some reporting and my dashboard just lumped them all into one day? | 16:36 |
| Hoffman | ThomCat[m]: the former | 16:42 |
| Hoffman | they began including deaths strongly suspected to be due to covid-19 but could not be tested due to lack of test availability | 16:42 |
| mefistofeles | So, do we already know what happened to France in the last few days? | 16:43 |
| mefistofeles | is it easter relapse? | 16:44 |
| ThomCat[m] | Gotcha, so these were *all* deaths in NY **yesterday** | 16:44 |
| ThomCat[m] | That's..... insane. | 16:44 |
| Hoffman | ThomCat[m]: not sure | 16:47 |
| Hoffman | they might have included all the ones up until then | 16:47 |
| ThomCat[m] | That's kind of what I figured, cause my dashboard says it was 3215 deaths yesterday in NY alone, and their previous high was 800 | 16:48 |
| ThomCat[m] | SO unless a bomb went off | 16:48 |
| ThomCat[m] | * So unless a bomb went off | 16:49 |
| bin_bash | xz3r0: explain what you meant by "it's biological" | 16:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 14:47 UTC: CoronavirusGLOBAL: Zoom under siege. Rapidly rolling out security measures to protect user privacy. → https://is.gd/4VLdfi | 16:53 |
| xz3r0 | relating to biology or living organisms. | 16:53 |
| xz3r0 | relating to biology or living organisms. | 16:53 |
| xz3r0 | relating to biology or living organisms. | 16:53 |
| xz3r0 | bin_bash relating to biology or living organisms. | 16:53 |
| xz3r0 | lol | 16:53 |
| xz3r0 | the question was it a weapon or not | 16:54 |
| xz3r0 | https://pastebin.com/AZNZPxT8 | 16:54 |
| bin_bash | xz3r0: that's irrelevant to what the topic was | 16:55 |
| xz3r0 | I said a potato could be used as a weapon | 16:55 |
| bin_bash | nobody said "it's not biological" | 16:55 |
| xz3r0 | he said it was not man made | 16:55 |
| bin_bash | it was not an engineer bioweapon | 16:55 |
| bin_bash | yeah it's not | 16:55 |
| xz3r0 | if they are going taking the virus out of bats | 16:55 |
| xz3r0 | and messing with it.. | 16:55 |
| xz3r0 | changing it's valuesa | 16:55 |
| bin_bash | that's not what manmade means | 16:55 |
| xz3r0 | but a ban doesn't bother me... | 16:55 |
| bin_bash | nobody said "it definitely wasn't manipulated" | 16:56 |
| xz3r0 | jz lol | 16:56 |
| bin_bash | they said it wasnt a manmade virus | 16:56 |
| bin_bash | i'm just clarifying | 16:56 |
| bin_bash | because the distinction is critical | 16:56 |
| xz3r0 | that's like saying is cancer man made? | 16:56 |
| bin_bash | no it isnt | 16:56 |
| xz3r0 | everyone has the right to free speech ? | 16:56 |
| xz3r0 | cancer is not man made? | 16:56 |
| xz3r0 | jz | 16:56 |
| bin_bash | this network isn't run by the US government | 16:56 |
| bin_bash | so it's not under any obligation to allow speech | 16:57 |
| xz3r0 | so you censor people? | 16:57 |
| bin_bash | cancer is not man-made, no. | 16:57 |
| bin_bash | that's not censorship lol | 16:57 |
| xz3r0 | i was banned from a channel, for replying to his comment | 16:57 |
| bin_bash | you keep using words you dont understand | 16:58 |
| bin_bash | 1) cancer is not manmade | 16:59 |
| bin_bash | 2) sars-cov-2 is not manmade | 16:59 |
| bin_bash | 3) banning someone for trying to make a semantic argument they don't even understand is not censorship | 16:59 |
| xz3r0 | 1 cancer is caused by man made chemicals? yes/no? | 16:59 |
| bin_bash | i hope that's clear now | 16:59 |
| xz3r0 | wish to ban me also? | 16:59 |
| Toadisattva | the full sequence of the virus is available for anyone to look at, now I'm not educated enough to begin to understand what the sequence means, but lots and lots of people that are have assured me it doesn't appear to be engineered | 17:00 |
| bin_bash | xz3r0: do you even know what man-made MEANS? in the context of a virus? | 17:00 |
| bin_bash | it means that it was DESIGNED in a LAB and could not POSSIBLY EXIST in nature | 17:00 |
| Toadisattva | isolated and weaponized, maybe, but not engineered :P | 17:00 |
| bin_bash | that is not the case here | 17:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 14:54 UTC: Coronavirus live news: China denies cover-up as Wuhan death toll revised up by 50%: Brazil’s president fires health minister; IMF predicts zero economic growth in Latin America and Caribbean; UK extends lockdown by three weeks → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 17:00 |
| xz3r0 | grammer champions... | 17:00 |
| yuriwho | hello xz3r0 | 17:00 |
| xz3r0 | hi | 17:00 |
| Toadisattva | the plausibility that is escaped the lab in Wuhan seems to be gaining more ground | 17:01 |
| yuriwho | I repeat this for the Nth time as it's surging as a distraction meme promoted by Trump now. The scientific consensus is that SARS-CoV-2 is derived from a natural reservoir of virus that existed in other mammals with a high probability that it came from bats (closest known natural viral genome is extremely similar) and may have possibly been transited through another mammal (pangolins) as the part of the bat | 17:02 |
| yuriwho | 10:41 genome matches a closely related coronavirus from pangolins. Thus possibly a hybrid of the bat virus and a known pangolin virus. Yes there is a virology institute Wuhan very close to the wet market and the central train hub for all of China. It is known that the virologists at the institute were collecting and studying mammal viruses for basic scientific research as they can jump to humans and cause disease. It | 17:02 |
| yuriwho | is | 17:02 |
| yuriwho | 10:41 perfectly normal for a virologist principal investigator to hire experienced Post-doctoral researchers to work on research. Indeed this is the standard career path for scientists in virology. | 17:02 |
| Hoffman | the conspiracy theory is gaining more widespread adoption | 17:02 |
| Hoffman | that doesn't mean there's any more evidence to support it | 17:02 |
| yuriwho | with that said, It is possible that the virus started spreading from the wet market or from accidental release from the Institute | 17:02 |
| yuriwho | 10:42 there is no evidence the virus is man made | 17:02 |
| Hoffman | it just means it's being shouted through a larger loudspeaker | 17:02 |
| Hoffman | and we all know who the loudspeaker is | 17:02 |
| yuriwho | the inference is that it was a bioweapon which is obviously not true to any virologist | 17:03 |
| yuriwho | I will personally ban anyone promoting this mis-information dog whistling about bioweapons by promoting these ideas | 17:03 |
| Hoffman | bUt iTs nOt mY fAuLt ItS aLl cHiNa I tAkE nO rEsPoNsIbIlItY | 17:04 |
| Hello_0 | :) | 17:04 |
| yuriwho | ^ feel free to copy and past this widely with my name attached | 17:04 |
| yuriwho | 10:43 since real virologists in the US and the EU are saying this but no one wants to listen to them | 17:04 |
| mefistofeles | well, this has been said several times, indeed | 17:04 |
| mefistofeles | the URL int he topic has the sources even | 17:04 |
| yuriwho | FYI I had already banned him from ##coronavirus | 17:05 |
| yuriwho | just minutes ago | 17:05 |
| Hello_0 | who? | 17:05 |
| yuriwho | scroll up | 17:05 |
| ubLXI | deep breaths yuriwho - now get back to work :p | 17:06 |
| Toadisattva | there was a pot on reddit that linked to a site that had collected and indexed all the evidence about the lab theory it was very well put together, trying to dig it up, certainly doesn't mean it's true, but it's nice to be able to evaluate the evidence | 17:06 |
| ThomCat[m] | https://www.reddit.com/r/Virology/comments/fsmdib/layman_here_would_like_some_experts_thoughts_on/ | 17:06 |
| Hoffman | the only evidence I've seen is circumstantial | 17:06 |
| Hoffman | IE hey look theres a lab here and the virus started in the same city | 17:06 |
| Hoffman | which proves nothing | 17:06 |
| ThomCat[m] | Toadisattva You're talking about the Harvard2TheBigHouse post, which is addressed in the reddit post I just shared | 17:06 |
| mefistofeles | also, it doesn't work like that | 17:06 |
| Hello_0 | it was IS | 17:07 |
| mefistofeles | they have to prove why the science conclusions that point to "not manipulated/engineered" are wrong | 17:07 |
| mefistofeles | this is not numerology, this is real science | 17:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:02 UTC: China's Wuhan raises coronavirus death toll by 50% after city revises figures: The Wuhan government said total confirmed infections in the city have been revised upwards by 325 to 50,333, while there are now 1,290 more deaths totaling 3,869, Xinhua News Agency reported. → https://is.gd/3Epq3R | 17:07 |
| ynhof[m] | Ever spend a few hours just reading wikipedia? | 17:07 |
| ynhof[m] | I like to have a few good reading sessions every week | 17:07 |
| mefistofeles | it's not just putting some random things in order to give some results, it's much more than that | 17:07 |
| Toadisattva | no that's not the one | 17:07 |
| ynhof[m] | Its almost impossible to have a cov2 reading session, due to (need I say) | 17:08 |
| Hello_0 | corona comes from Philippines IS is there | 17:08 |
| Toadisattva | I knew I shoulda bookmarked it | 17:10 |
| Toadisattva | it had it's own site, it was very thorough it was very unbiased, saw it yesterday in one of the big 3 subs | 17:10 |
| Hello_0 | they took the bat spit infected some hostages release them and it spreaded | 17:11 |
| mefistofeles | Hello_0: stop the nonsense, please | 17:11 |
| Hello_0 | why? | 17:11 |
| Hello_0 | its was IS | 17:11 |
| Hello_0 | as good theory as any | 17:12 |
| mefistofeles | no, it isn't | 17:12 |
| Hello_0 | yes it is | 17:12 |
| mefistofeles | so we appreciate you stop spreading misinformation | 17:12 |
| Hello_0 | its a theory its not information | 17:13 |
| Hello_0 | its not facts | 17:13 |
| dTal | damn right it's not facts | 17:13 |
| dTal | the technical term is "bullshit" | 17:13 |
| Hello_0 | i think it makes sense | 17:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 15:10 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: Sunak extends furlough scheme, as hospital death toll rises by 847 to 14,576 → https://is.gd/pAJOdS | 17:14 |
| dTal | did you just pull it out of your ass or is there someone else pushing this absurd notion as well? | 17:14 |
| Hello_0 | someone else? if there are they should pay copyrights | 17:15 |
| ynhof[m] | Relax all. Just imagine the words of the person you disagree with as a 'closed captions' overdub for the flying lawnnmower youtube film. | 17:16 |
| Hello_0 | its as good theory as the chinese did it | 17:16 |
| Toadisattva | oh well | 17:16 |
| Hello_0 | the chinese that did it already died | 17:17 |
| Toadisattva | doesn't really matter where it came from | 17:17 |
| iz | simpsons did it | 17:17 |
| Toadisattva | what matters is what we can do abotu it and what we are doing abotu it | 17:17 |
| Hello_0 | the eye doctor | 17:17 |
| Toadisattva | simpsons actually did do it, there was that where the chinese guy coughed in the package | 17:18 |
| iz | haha that's right | 17:18 |
| Hello_0 | the coronbats live in china? | 17:20 |
| ubLXI | Hello_0: what do you mean by "IS"? And what is your native language (it's quite hard to parse your English)? | 17:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:16 UTC: New York City cancels early summer concerts and festivals to curb coronavirus outbreak: De Blasio is also weighing keeping the public beaches closed, saying "I can't see" opening them up yet because the outbreak isn't contained. → https://is.gd/Fq8ybK | 17:21 |
| Hello_0 | it might have been nazi weapon timed for release 100 years from the spanish flu for added fear factor | 17:23 |
| ubLXI | ... | 17:23 |
| mefistofeles | oh nice, I just realized you can msg yourself in freenode :) that's cool | 17:24 |
| ynhof[m] | Idk if this helps lighten the mood but it sure interested me. | 17:26 |
| ynhof[m] | I think when this is over, if I am ready to look for a new partner my chances will be temporarily very good. | 17:26 |
| mefistofeles | ynhof[m]: how so? | 17:26 |
| ynhof[m] | Before going back to 8ball "outlook uncertain" | 17:26 |
| ynhof[m] | Absence makes the heart grow... Or people want what they dont have... Scarcity by adversity... | 17:28 |
| Hoffman | he's saying people are gonna wanna bone some strange | 17:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:26 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Sanofi says it can mass produce vaccine, if it works; cases in Russia jump → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 17:29 |
| ynhof[m] | But who knows, it could have turned us all into incels... | 17:29 |
| mefistofeles | Hoffman: I agree, that makes it even worse, odds are less now | 17:29 |
| mefistofeles | specially if you are not that commonly attractive and such | 17:29 |
| Hoffman | less or more | 17:29 |
| Hoffman | hes talkin bout when we're let back out again | 17:30 |
| mefistofeles | Hoffman: I know | 17:30 |
| ynhof[m] | Hey, supply and demand. Believe in yourself and eat what Oprah talks about circa 2005 | 17:30 |
| ynhof[m] | (2005 because sars was 2004, so it is like you are anticipating the rain) | 17:32 |
| mefistofeles | there would still be more demand than offer, probably moreso than before | 17:33 |
| mefistofeles | so if you weren'ton demand before, you have worse chances now | 17:33 |
| Hoffman | mefistofeles: thats not how it works | 17:35 |
| mefistofeles | anyways, I'd just think it would be basically the same | 17:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 15:35 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: La conferenza stampa della protezione civile inizia alle 18 → https://is.gd/zUy6v4 | 17:36 |
| ynhof[m] | I think they mean literally now during lockdown. That makes sense, but would you risk it if you could? XD | 17:36 |
| Toadisattva | hey baby I got a box of n95's | 17:37 |
| Toadisattva | :P | 17:37 |
| MinceR | "hey baby, i got a pallet of TP" | 17:39 |
| yoniyoni | Hello Can you help me ? | 17:41 |
| bin_bash | with what | 17:42 |
| ynhof[m] | Sure | 17:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 15:38 UTC: nCoV: Wuhan adjusts its coronavirus death toll up by 50% | DW Newsw | 17APR20 → https://is.gd/KxQMtb | 17:43 |
| dTal | I think it's gonna be pretty wild when lockdown ends | 17:44 |
| Hoffman | liberation day | 17:44 |
| dTal | I've been texting this girl and it's basically gone from "flirty texting to keep interest" to "we are gonna bang both each other and literally everyone else the second we get out" | 17:45 |
| dTal | the thirst is real | 17:45 |
| yoniyoni | Ce virus est d'origine animal ou scientifuque ? | 17:45 |
| ThomCat[m] | V-COVID Day | 17:45 |
| yoniyoni | oups | 17:45 |
| yoniyoni | Is this virus of animal or scientific origin? | 17:46 |
| ynhof[m] | Pangolin bat | 17:46 |
| ynhof[m] | Suspected | 17:46 |
| yoniyoni | sur ? | 17:46 |
| yoniyoni | =L | 17:46 |
| Hoffman | lol | 17:49 |
| Hoffman | pangolin bat | 17:49 |
| Hoffman | make up yr mind | 17:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 15:46 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Sanofi says it can mass produce vaccine, if it works; cases in Russia jump → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 17:50 |
| yoniyoni | yes pangolin OR bat ? | 17:50 |
| Toadisattva | bat > pangolin > human | 17:50 |
| Hoffman | false | 17:51 |
| Hoffman | human > * | 17:51 |
| Toadisattva | human > cat | 17:51 |
| Toadisattva | apparently one of the people working with the russian astronauts has tested positive, so it might be on the ISS now too | 17:52 |
| yoniyoni | sanofi are not in good standing, I live in Paris and Sanofi it's escrow | 17:53 |
| yoniyoni | Toadisattva AMAZING | 17:54 |
| derpadmin | yoniyoni : interesting | 17:56 |
| ynhof[m] | Hmm thats a weird idea. In future, how we had canaries for the mines (in the past), we could have animals susceptible to virus' in public places (piping environment air in but filtering output to not poison/infect us). | 18:00 |
| ynhof[m] | Maybe they could die before we could realise something is wrong using other means? | 18:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 16:03 UTC: /u/slakmehl: ABC News su Twitter: "JUST IN: Antibody research indicates coronavirus may be far more widespread than known. https://t.co/SsLKcrcThs" → https://is.gd/tEOlb8 | 18:04 |
| Toadisattva | often animals can carry a disease without being effected by it | 18:04 |
| Toadisattva | as is the case with bats and coronaviruses | 18:05 |
| Blankspace | What makes them unaffected | 18:05 |
| ubLXI | since we have PCR tests, it might be easier to develop that idea in the direction of viral dosimeters than to genetically modify an animal that croaks in a timely fashion | 18:06 |
| ynhof[m] | XD | 18:06 |
| Toadisattva | I was reading an interesteing paper the other day suggesting that high levels of melatonin may be involved specifically with bats, also that might be the reason why children seem less susceptible, it wasn't really supported wtih a lot of evidence just speculatory, but interesting nonetheless | 18:06 |
| Toadisattva | melatonin does definitnely help prevent and treat cytokine storm which is good to know | 18:06 |
| dTal | ...so in other words we all need to get lots of sunshine? | 18:07 |
| dTal | well isn't that just great | 18:07 |
| Toadisattva | well no sunshine gives ya vitamin-d which also has a lot of promising research in being preventative for contracting severe symptoms from covid-19 | 18:08 |
| Toadisattva | melatonin means get a lot of sleep | 18:08 |
| Toadisattva | lotta sun and lotta sleep = winning | 18:08 |
| ubLXI | what is this sleep you speak of? | 18:09 |
| MinceR | :> | 18:09 |
| Toadisattva | its this thing people used to do | 18:09 |
| Toadisattva | they'd put down their phone and close their eyes for like 8 whole hours | 18:09 |
| Toadisattva | I know crazy right | 18:09 |
| ubLXI | it'll never catch on | 18:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Sanofi says it can mass produce vaccine, if it works; cases in Russia jump → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 18:11 |
| dTal | sunshine -> melanin -> melatonin | 18:11 |
| mefistofeles | -> Melanie | 18:15 |
| LjL | no Civil Protection press conference yet that i can hear, but cases and deaths went slightly up from yesterday | 18:16 |
| LjL | (bot still isn't reporting periodic updates, maybe today is the lucky when when i fix that) | 18:16 |
| LjL | but this isn't great since yesterday already had more cases than the day before. although one can hope it's due to more testing | 18:17 |
| LjL | Daily Italian Civil Protection press conference at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8U_cqnatJs is starting now. I'll take notes. | 18:17 |
| LjL | Good evening. Thanks to President of ISS, Franco Locatelli | 18:17 |
| mefistofeles | Blankspace: what makes them unnafected is not an easy question to answer, but of course they lack the receptor sctructure to actually be affected, that's a clear difference, but there are many other things involved | 18:17 |
| LjL | Currently positive is 106962, +355. | 18:18 |
| LjL | Pressure on hospitals is going down, 2812 patients in ICU, -124. | 18:18 |
| LjL | 25786 are hospitalized with symptoms, -1207 patients, the lowest since March 27. | 18:18 |
| LjL | Most are self-isolating at home, 78364 (73%). | 18:18 |
| danielp3344 | Anyone planning a party when this is over? | 18:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 16:11 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: nearly 100,000 EU citizens remain stranded overseas due to pandemic → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 18:18 |
| LjL | +575 deaths, while recoveries are 42727 in total. | 18:18 |
| LjL | +2563 recoveries is the highest number even for now. | 18:19 |
| LjL | We did nearly 66000 tests. | 18:19 |
| LjL | 19913 volunteers are working, together to other personnel. | 18:19 |
| LjL | Pre-triage tests are 878, 151 are in penitentiaries. | 18:19 |
| LjL | Donations have reached 127.7 million, 34 million of which have already been used for purchasing PPEs and ventilators. | 18:20 |
| LjL | Tomorrow another part of our nurse task force is leaving to affected regions. | 18:20 |
| LjL | Today's healthcare data indicate that pressure on hospitals decidedly went down, which is a data point that's becoming more solid during the past weeks. | 18:21 |
| LjL | In this emergency phase we are then "remodulating" or press conferences, we'll still provide data on our site and social media, but the press conferences will only happen on Mondays and Thursdays. | 18:21 |
| Toadisattva | it looks like the stay home orders have been pretty effective in flattening the curve outside the already heavily infected areas like north italy and NYC | 18:22 |
| Toadisattva | it's at least buying us time to up capacity and supplies to deal with the recurrences when when eventually open things back up | 18:22 |
| LjL | This adds to the press conferences by Commissioner Arcuri at noon Tuesdays and Saturdays, and the ISS press conference at noon on Fridays. | 18:22 |
| Toadisattva | I don't think recurrences is the word I wanted | 18:23 |
| Toadisattva | rises maybe | 18:23 |
| Toadisattva | are you in US LjL? | 18:23 |
| LjL | We all heard the words of ex-minister Guidi on the topic of disability, which is even more important during this emergency. I received a letter from the father of a son affected by autism. It outlined the complexity of the situation especially during this emergency. Our department has the resources and responsibility to aid these people. | 18:23 |
| LjL | I told this father we will provide all the possible assistance. In thanking me and the Civil Protection, he addressed another letter to me, which he wants to share with all of us. | 18:24 |
| Toadisattva | clearly not lol | 18:24 |
| LjL | It would be impossible to read it all now: there are words of pain but not for an instant do they make hope and trust dwindle. | 18:24 |
| LjL | "Since the diagnosis of autism, we have always left some empty space in our luggage, and that space was for hope." | 18:25 |
| l0ndoner | Toadisattva: I think he is Italiano | 18:25 |
| l0ndoner | not 100% | 18:25 |
| Toadisattva | ah okay | 18:25 |
| LjL | I really hope that the words of these people who face small and big personal challenges in addition to our current emergency are all the more encouraging us. | 18:25 |
| mefistofeles | Toadisattva: he's in Milano | 18:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:24 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Numero di tamponi +65705 → https://is.gd/z3Gn7V | 18:26 |
| Toadisattva | oh wow so in an epicenter | 18:26 |
| LjL | (Prof.) Thank you... Good evening, I think Dr Borrelli's closing words have shown a picture on various perspectives that this epidemic created, in particular on what it entailed in terms of challenges and pain for a portion of the population, aside from the number of deaths, which I will talk about in a bit. | 18:27 |
| Toadisattva | uh oh bad word choice, didn't mean to trigger ptsd :P | 18:27 |
| LjL | Some thoughts that I hope will be useful to define the current scenario. Dr Borrelli cited the numbers on hospitalized people, and in particular ICU... if we go back just 2 weeks, on April 3, there were 4063 patients in ICUs. Today this is little more than 2800. This lets you gauge just how much the pressure on health structures has gone down, allowing those who are tasked with ICU management to handle not just COVID-19 patients but everyone who needs ICU | 18:28 |
| LjL | admission. | 18:28 |
| LjL | Let me remind you that before the epidemic began, we had little more than 5000 ICU beds, so imagine the situation with more than 4065 ICU patients, in terms of difficulty in guaranteeing assistance to the people who needed ICU for reasons that were not just COVID-19. | 18:29 |
| LjL | The other number is about the amount of tests done. If we "normalize" the number of positives, or rather if we calculate the percentage of positives on tests done, it's 5.35%, and this is a further indicator of the measures taken in terms of social distancing and lockdown. | 18:29 |
| LjL | But Dr Borrelli also mentioned the number of deaths, and I will use this number not just to acknowledge their sacrifice by the representative of the state, but also to remind ourselves that on Sunday will be the day for donation of organs and tissues. These numbers that have "clawed" our consciences should make us reflect on the "culture of organ donation": a culture that was never promoted enough, and which must permeate the consciences of all of us. | 18:31 |
| LjL | Without organ donations, some existences will be irremediably lost. Only by "donating" ourselves we can give a sense to our existence. | 18:31 |
| LjL | Starting on 26 February, the National Transplantation Service has been able to provide 330 organ transplants, without considering stem cells which are coordinated with the Register of Bone Marrow Donations, which I thank most deeply. | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 16:29 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus UK live: Alok Sharma announces vaccine taskforce, as hospital death toll rises to 14,576 → https://is.gd/pAJOdS | 18:33 |
| LjL | There is a lot of discussion on serology tests. I would like to summarize some things on their deployment: they will allow us to conduct the so-called sero-prevalence study, i.e. determining the percentage of people who reside in Italy and who have been infected, came into contact with the coronavirus. | 18:33 |
| LjL | As a matter of fact, this sero-prevalence test will be conducted using either ELIZA tests, or chemo-luminiscense tests, in order to have solid and reliable data. For this reason, the scientific committee I am a part of provider Commissioner Accuracy some indications on how to choose the tests: specificity must be over 95%, and sensitivity above 90%, and they must be validated either by labs or by national or international bodies, which can be done on a | 18:34 |
| LjL | large scale, and in each region. | 18:34 |
| LjL | This test should be able to provide quick, really quick response to provide any useful information from this study. | 18:35 |
| LjL | Within the next few hours, a "call" to all companies that believe they have tests matching the requisites above will be opened and kept open for 5 days, after which, a panel identified by Arcuri will proceed with identifying the one test that will be chosen for conducting this study on a sample of 150000 Italian residence, which are selected with the cooperation of ISTAT on the basis of six age groups, regional representation (as we said we expect | 18:36 |
| LjL | different seroprevalence in the various regions), and work profiles. | 18:36 |
| navonod | greetings fellow covidians | 18:37 |
| LjL | It must be crystal clear that this seroprevalene study will be conducted in cooperation with the regions, and here I thank all the regions and the autonomous provinces who expressed their full support for this test. | 18:37 |
| mefistofeles | navonod: hey | 18:38 |
| LjL | I say it often, but it's never enough, AIFA has had a great role, they evaluated 93 research projects, 19 were approved, and 10 of these studies have already started. | 18:38 |
| LjL | This is an extraordinary result that was obtained in just one solar month, and it represents a turning point in terms of the efficiency of conducting clinical studies in our countries. | 18:38 |
| LjL | Beyond thing, AIFA guarantees vigilance on pharmacology, elaborates guidelines for all these clinical trials, provides information and education material on their website, and they can ensure adequate drug provisions for all hospital structures to avoid shortages. | 18:39 |
| LjL | In this challenging situation our country has been facing, what AIFA did repreesents, I believe, a very good note, as did the success in containing the risk of infection in central and southern Italy. This is now a solidly data with numerical evidence, and today, 13 regions and autonomous provinces have a number of deaths below two digits, and two regions have had no deaths at all. | 18:40 |
| LjL | (Borrelli) Questions now... | 18:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:32 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: New York situation 'unsustainable'; Sanofi says it can mass produce vaccine, if it works → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 18:40 |
| LjL | Q: These are definitely positive data, which explains why you are no longer making daily press conferences, but there is still something that doesn't compute: we've still had 3500 new cases. I know there have been more tests, with the lowest positive percentage, but isn't the problem lying in self-isolation at home? We have 78000 people at home who are positive. Today, Prof. Paolo Branchini said clearly that when in Wuhan they realized the "plateau" never | 18:42 |
| LjL | actually went down, they realized the problem was in home self-isolation, and they placed those people in special structures for quarantine. Don't you think this is the problem? These people are in homes with relatives who are getting infected. | 18:42 |
| LjL | A: (Borrelli) Since the beginning of the emergency we surveyed our structures to find places to guarantee quarantine for people who are unable to do it at home. We have about 7000 beds in various structures, and we have arranged place with the region and local authorities, and we're also making a poll (it began last Saturday, should give us results tomorrow), to determine which structures have actually been provided, including those for homeless people. | 18:44 |
| LjL | --- I must pause now, groceries delivery | 18:44 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Elon Musk publishes list of hospitals Tesla sent ventilators to after claims none were delivered to California (10195 votes) | https://redd.it/g2zr0s | 18:44 |
| mefistofeles | that'swhat Borrellu said?! | 18:44 |
| mefistofeles | xD | 18:45 |
| mefistofeles | Borrelli* | 18:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 16:40 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Cuomo calls NY situation 'unsustainable' — Sanofi says it can mass produce vaccine, if it works → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 18:47 |
| Butterfly^ | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-52321529 Coronavirus: China outbreak city Wuhan raises death toll by 50% - BBC News | 18:51 |
| mefistofeles | Butterfly^: yeah, already been linked several times here xD | 18:52 |
| Butterfly^ | missed it those times :) | 18:53 |
| mefistofeles | as usual they are just ahead in all of this, they are reporting or the deaths that couldn't be reported before | 18:53 |
| mefistofeles | as many other countries will in the future | 18:53 |
| mefistofeles | s/or /all | 18:53 |
| ubLXI | Anyone care to comment on Associated Press? Whether it is as unimpeachable as suggested by https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/associated-press/ | 19:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 16:56 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Stop alla Conferenza stampa quotidiana → https://is.gd/WcBSqQ | 19:02 |
| wiirc | no comments :P | 19:03 |
| wiirc | im glad i got addblocker so that site wont make any $$$ on my account | 19:05 |
| ubLXI | uMatrix? uBlock Origin? | 19:06 |
| Butterfly^ | both | 19:07 |
| wiirc | none of that | 19:07 |
| jacklsw | what kind of party? | 19:07 |
| jacklsw | haha | 19:07 |
| AimHere | ubLXI, AP is a well-known historical newswise from decades and decades ago. It's kindof an instution in the news business | 19:08 |
| ubLXI | AimHere: mhm | 19:08 |
| jacklsw | oops i replied to earlier chat, forgot to scroll down | 19:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:06 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Cuomo calls NY situation 'unsustainable' — Sanofi says it can mass produce vaccine, if it works → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 19:09 |
| navonod | agreed.. AP seems legit | 19:09 |
| navonod | solid rep | 19:09 |
| wiirc | my browser got add-blocker already | 19:10 |
| mefistofeles | wiirc: which one is that? | 19:10 |
| wiirc | yours doesent ? | 19:10 |
| wiirc | opera | 19:10 |
| mefistofeles | wiirc: ah, cool. Mine doesn't, not like opera, at least | 19:12 |
| mefistofeles | but I think that's good | 19:12 |
| ubLXI | well.. this article then seems a more fair minded critique than we're used to getting from the popup ChinaDidIt-Brigade: https://apnews.com/68a9e1b91de4ffc166acd6012d82c2f9 | 19:13 |
| ubLXI | %title | 19:13 |
| Brainstorm | ubLXI: From apnews.com: China didn't warn public of likely pandemic for 6 key days | 19:13 |
| wiirc | also got vpn | 19:13 |
| ubLXI | it seems to weigh history slightly differently than the BBC, though | 19:13 |
| AimHere | ubLXI, note that that 'Least Biased' category includes US government-funded propaganda outlets | 19:13 |
| AimHere | So I'd be hugely sceptical of it's notion of bias | 19:14 |
| [Hoffman] | I wouldn't be | 19:14 |
| [Hoffman] | it's a huge organization, some of which is reliable | 19:14 |
| wiirc | China did really missed manged this crisis unlike the USA | 19:14 |
| [Hoffman] | you'd have to check the track record of the person or sub-organization making the claims | 19:14 |
| ubLXI | hmm. it is possible the AP there is being uncharitable, but the article seemed interesting enough | 19:14 |
| [Hoffman] | maybe take their total proven falsehoods and divide it by the count of each thing theyve ever said | 19:15 |
| [Hoffman] | wiirc: given the US is the most-impacted country, I'd say the US has mismanaged it a lot | 19:15 |
| wiirc | thats whats called sarcasm | 19:16 |
| [Hoffman] | hard to tell sometimes :I | 19:16 |
| [Hoffman] | poe's law & all | 19:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health at 17:07 UTC: (news): Coronavirus vaccine: Target of a million doses by September, scientists say → https://is.gd/JxJBBO | 19:16 |
| ubLXI | wiirc: given sensitivities, perhaps steer clear of subtle sarcasm on this particular point | 19:16 |
| wiirc | https://newatlas.com/automotive/virtual-motorsport-car-racing-lockdown-guide/ | 19:18 |
| wiirc | https://www.enascar.com/live/ | 19:23 |
| wiirc | :) | 19:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 17:23 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: USA → https://is.gd/Iop3NJ | 19:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:26 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Cuomo calls NY situation 'unsustainable' — Sanofi says it can mass produce vaccine, if it works → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 19:31 |
| ubLXI | i think history will show that that AP article sensed a legitimate target, but missed it; in its effort to find its target, i think the thrust of the article might be characterised as 'uncharitable' | 19:33 |
| wiirc | https://edition.cnn.com/videos/media/2020/04/15/chris-cuomo-wife-diagnosed-coronavirus-governor-andrew-cuomo-sot-cpt-vpx.cnn | 19:33 |
| ubLXI | the article declined to mention notifications send to the WHO in December | 19:33 |
| ubLXI | and it declined to allow for the value of making logistical dispositions prior to public measures | 19:34 |
| LjL | 18<29mefistofeles18> that'swhat Borrellu said?! ← yes the civil protection stuff is not only boring but depressing in how little they can actually do. it's more interesting when they have some guest doctor who isn't of the "no comment" kind | 19:35 |
| LjL | also, as i transcribed and Brainstorm always announced, no more daily press conferences from now on | 19:35 |
| LjL | so you will all be relieved of this daily flood | 19:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from New Scientist at 17:41 UTC: UK’s coronavirus science advice won’t be published until pandemic ends: The UK government says its coronavirus strategies are based on science, but the scientific advice it has received won’t be made public until after the pandemic → https://is.gd/fBbxbn | 19:38 |
| ubLXI | way to go UK | 19:40 |
| ubLXI | also, the New Scientist is even more of a rag than Scientific American, last time i checked | 19:40 |
| ubLXI | which was several years ago | 19:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:43 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Cuomo calls NY situation 'unsustainable' — Sanofi says it can mass produce vaccine, if it works → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 19:45 |
| Urchin | %cases croatia | 19:46 |
| Brainstorm | Urchin: In all areas, Croatia, there are 1814 cases (0.0% of the population) and 36 deaths (2.0% of cases) as of 10 minutes ago. 20953 tests were performed (8.7% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.7% (assuming deaths/cases with ⅔ undetected), and less than 5.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Croatia for time series data. | 19:46 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: haha cool... we had lot of info from the press conferences, so thank you for translating them | 19:46 |
| mefistofeles | specially the first ones, when this thing was really exploding in Italy | 19:46 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, there are a couple of recent ones that contain somewhat insightful answers though, not from Borrelli mainly but by his guests. like the one with the WHO representative after Trump said he was withdrawing funding | 19:56 |
| LjL | also | 19:56 |
| LjL | how Italy works: i have a credit card that's chip and PIN and works without a PIN for small purchases if i use contactless, and that's fine | 19:56 |
| LjL | but for reason, i have to use another credit card now, and even though that's also contactless, it requires a signature instead of a PIN, *still*! | 19:57 |
| LjL | so the pharmacist always just tells me "i'll sign for you, right?" and i'm like "sure of course" | 19:57 |
| genera | lol | 19:57 |
| LjL | nobody is happy to be signing some piece of paper with a pen everyone else used | 19:57 |
| LjL | and they are just scribbles anyway | 19:57 |
| LjL | i am not aware of graphologists ever having been invoked over a credit card controversy... | 19:58 |
| navonod | looks like things are flattening here in terms of cases | 19:59 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, also a somewhat important question asked by a journalist yesterday, that was answered evasively: if we're so happy that "pressure on hospitals and ICUs is going down", how come we still get so many reports of people in nursing home dying without being tested or taken to hospital? if there's ICU beds for them why isn't it used? | 19:59 |
| LjL | and Borrelli basically just said "when we get requests, we fulfill them" | 19:59 |
| navonod | I think they are sadly letting people with covid like symptoms die in the nursing homes | 19:59 |
| LjL | my parents said... those people are basically understood to be dead, period | 20:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 17:57 UTC: WHO issues warning on coronavirus testing: There's no evidence antibody tests show immunity: So-called serological, or antibody, tests indicate whether a person has had Covid-19 in the past and was either asymptomatic or recovered. → https://is.gd/ENhNpq | 20:00 |
| mefistofeles | yes, one of the main problems is that if they are already receiving non-covid patients, the rist of another exponential growth in hospital is too high, so I guess there's also that | 20:00 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: ↑ | 20:00 |
| mefistofeles | risk* | 20:01 |
| LjL | :\ | 20:01 |
| LjL | i get it i guess | 20:01 |
| LjL | but still | 20:01 |
| mefistofeles | yeah I know | 20:01 |
| mefistofeles | it's like the triage thing but remotely | 20:01 |
| mefistofeles | :/ | 20:01 |
| LjL | in some of those nursing homes, at least a private one created a scandal, basically all employee got sick, and the patients were just alone for several days | 20:01 |
| LjL | some were starved, some where... covered in feces, it literally said that in the article | 20:02 |
| mefistofeles | yeah, I can see that happening :( | 20:02 |
| LjL | this is not the society i was told i was growing up in when i received civic education in school | 20:02 |
| LjL | (which is now a topic of debate on whether pupils should receive it... well, i guess not *now* anymore) | 20:02 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: in that we disagree | 20:02 |
| LjL | now the topic of debate wrt schools is: remote schooling is compulsory but equipment is not provided, so what do poorer kids that have no fancy tablets do? | 20:03 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, well maybe it was always just propaganda or wishful thinking | 20:03 |
| LjL | it's not the society i *though* i was growing up in | 20:03 |
| LjL | thought, also | 20:03 |
| mefistofeles | the society we were seeing everyday has always been pushing towards profit and always letting the elderly die in some jails (called nurseries), which are making plenty of money in Europe as well, instead of people actually taking care of their eldery relatives themselves in their own places, or similar | 20:03 |
| navonod | I worked in one of those places... I hope I'm dead before I need one | 20:04 |
| [Hoffman] | Oklahoma saw a 53% increase in cases over the past week, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Over same time, cases jumped 60% in Arkansas, 74% in Nebraska, and 82% in Iowa. South Dakota saw a whopping 205% spike. | 20:06 |
| [Hoffman] | lol | 20:06 |
| [Hoffman] | who could have possibly foreseen this | 20:06 |
| [Hoffman] | as a result of no restrictions | 20:06 |
| mefistofeles | shocking!! | 20:06 |
| darsie | Make bitcoins cheap again. | 20:07 |
| mefistofeles | it's a JHU democrat conspiracy | 20:07 |
| mefistofeles | xD | 20:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 18:06 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Germania → https://is.gd/cO4JLY | 20:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:11 UTC: WHO issues warning on coronavirus testing: There's no evidence antibody tests show immunity: So-called serological, or antibody, tests indicate whether a person has had Covid-19 in the past and was either asymptomatic or recovered. → https://is.gd/ENhNpq | 20:14 |
| LjL | the WHO's telling us if we have high tithers of antibodies that's no evidence we are immune? | 20:16 |
| mefistofeles | ↑ Derek was already saying these things, remember the count on antibodies on younger patients that is lower than in older patients? so it raises questions about actual immunity | 20:16 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: yes | 20:16 |
| mefistofeles | well, depending on levels | 20:16 |
| LjL | well levels can be measured | 20:17 |
| Blankspace_ | If I have I won't ever know | 20:17 |
| mefistofeles | exactly, but immunity cannot, at least not without actually trying to make a clinical trail and get people infected and possible re-infected | 20:17 |
| LjL | i think we probably know enough about immune systems to have a decent idea how high it needs to be, using cautionary principles, for it to mean yeah, you're most likely immune | 20:17 |
| mefistofeles | and I don't see that happening as needed for conclusions | 20:18 |
| LjL | i think realistically, countries *will* use this as a measure of immunity | 20:18 |
| LjL | Italy is fully planning to do so | 20:18 |
| LjL | and the WHO is just speaking to no one as usual | 20:18 |
| LjL | it is reasonable to presume good tithers of antibodies mean immunity | 20:18 |
| mefistofeles | yes, WHO is just stating the scientific facts | 20:18 |
| mefistofeles | again, WHO doesn'tpush any policies | 20:18 |
| LjL | i've heard a few of the WHO press conferences | 20:19 |
| LjL | they sounded like they were pushing policies to me | 20:19 |
| LjL | sometimes very vehemently | 20:19 |
| LjL | they cannot *force* those policies, sure | 20:19 |
| mefistofeles | well, they can suggest and more, but only countries make the policies | 20:19 |
| mefistofeles | that's what's meant by pushing | 20:19 |
| mefistofeles | they don't get to decide at all | 20:19 |
| ubLXI | is that the WHO playing "no studies yet concluded" vs "studies concluded do not provide evidence" again? | 20:19 |
| mefistofeles | and in most cases they are just speakers of the tons of researchers coming with all of these results | 20:20 |
| mefistofeles | so as Derek already mentioned in his column, there are some results showing doubts about immunity | 20:20 |
| mefistofeles | ubLXI: probably, wording these things is very tricky | 20:21 |
| LjL | yuriwho, do you think it's reasonable to warn everybody that antibody tests, in a blanket way, as in, not BAD antibody tests, but antibody tests that have at least shown good specificity and sensitivity are *still* not enough to reasonable presume someone is immune, with decent levels? | 20:21 |
| ynhof[m] | I need to make a covid bot. This is my purpose((among other things)) | 20:21 |
| mefistofeles | that'swhy governments must have their own experts to validate things | 20:21 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, yes they showed doubts because some of those people had, specifically, level of antibodies that the experimenters *did not consider sufficient to presume immunity* | 20:21 |
| LjL | which means on the other hand that they kind of assumed those with higher levels were immune | 20:21 |
| LjL | that's how i understood those results | 20:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:14 UTC: (news): New York still struggles with 2,000 new coronavirus hospitalizations a day, Gov. Cuomo says → https://is.gd/3WekPU | 20:21 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: yes | 20:22 |
| mefistofeles | we agree then | 20:22 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, so we can agree that antibody tests, if they are good and a cautionary level of antibodies is used as a threshold, CAN be used to presume immunity (without 100% certainty but that never exists anywhere)? | 20:22 |
| yuriwho | I would need to review the data once the new tests are approved to see what antibody lvl's trigger the positive reading as well as see the false pos/neg data | 20:22 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: actually, some of them didn't show detectable antibodies at all | 20:23 |
| yuriwho | so no answer to your question at this time | 20:23 |
| LjL | yuriwho, yes in this case let's assume false positive and false negatives are "acceptable", because there is no debate from my end that if they aren't, then no, those tests won't be good enough | 20:23 |
| mefistofeles | a significant amount of them, around 30%, iirc | 20:23 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, well in that case, the antibody tests will turn out negative | 20:23 |
| LjL | which is what you want | 20:23 |
| LjL | those people probably aren't immune | 20:23 |
| yuriwho | the other problem is that many mild cases in young people resolve with no antibodies being produced | 20:23 |
| LjL | if they are through other means, well, best to consider them not immune anyway | 20:23 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: no, it'snot that simple | 20:24 |
| mefistofeles | the variability is too much | 20:24 |
| mefistofeles | yo can callibrate some test/model for it, but that will still take time and get many cases wrong while doing that | 20:24 |
| yuriwho | we need detailed immunology studies that look at innate vs humoral vs cell mediated immunity | 20:24 |
| mefistofeles | you* | 20:24 |
| mefistofeles | yuriwho: exactly | 20:25 |
| mefistofeles | that means that there are other parts of the immune system that comes into action for clearing the virus | 20:25 |
| mefistofeles | not just antibodies | 20:25 |
| LjL | yuriwho, mefistofeles, i just find it hard to conceive that if we have a test with 1) good false positive / false negative characteristics, and 2) that becomes "positive" at a reasonably high level of antibodies and negative otherwise, or that just gives us a number... that such a test would STILL not give a realistic measure of presence of immunity | 20:26 |
| yuriwho | unfortunately only the humoral can be tested with a rapid cheap test similar to a home pregnancy test | 20:26 |
| tinwhiskers | And that also means they shouldn't get an immunity passport of that's the purpose, so that is the correct outcome. | 20:26 |
| LjL | yuriwho, Italy has insisted that the antibody tests we need are from vein blood samples | 20:26 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: well, that's not what we have | 20:27 |
| LjL | well, "Italy" being the ISS at least | 20:27 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, that might explain why they haven't rolled them out yet! | 20:27 |
| mefistofeles | so that scenario is still very hypothetical | 20:27 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: probably | 20:27 |
| wiirc | the bats cells fight the virus before infection | 20:27 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, how did that study where 30% of people didn't have good enough levels determine... levels? | 20:27 |
| LjL | i remember the study wasn't just "yes or no", they said some people had "low levels" | 20:27 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: I don't really know https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.30.20047365v1 | 20:28 |
| LjL | okay | 20:28 |
| yuriwho | heh, I could explain that all to you but it's super complicated, I agree that venous testing is better but it's not essential. For antibody tests a finger prick is sufficient given the value of the data and cost/speed | 20:28 |
| danielp3344 | so batman is immune? | 20:28 |
| yuriwho | no, he is likely full of viruses danielp3344 | 20:28 |
| LjL | Spike-binding antibody in plasma were determined by ELISA using RBD, S1, and S2 proteins of SARS-CoV-2. ← i think in today's or yesterday's press conference they specifically mentioned they want either an ELISA or a blah blah test in Italy | 20:29 |
| yuriwho | and needs to hibernate every night | 20:29 |
| LjL | if this study had it, then we have it, don't we | 20:29 |
| mefistofeles | haha yuriwho | 20:29 |
| mefistofeles | xD | 20:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:24 UTC: WHO warning: No evidence that antibody tests can show coronavirus immunity: The WHO said there's no evidence serological tests can show whether a person has immunity or is no longer at risk of becoming reinfected. → https://is.gd/ENhNpq | 20:29 |
| tinwhiskers | If the antibody tests are followed up with lab tests like.... Denmark? are doing them that would be fine for an immunity passport. Sure you might get some false negatives but those are at least safe. | 20:29 |
| wiirc | the virus will adapt and learn to live in humans with out causing death just like it does with bats | 20:29 |
| LjL | As a matter of fact, this sero-prevalence test will be conducted using either ELIZA tests, or chemo-luminiscense tests, in order to have solid and reliable data. For this reason, the scientific committee I am a part of provider Commissioner Accuracy some indications on how to choose the tests: specificity must be over 95%, and sensitivity above 90%, and they must be validated either by labs or by national or international bodies | 20:29 |
| yuriwho | sorry folks, I'm super busy right now | 20:29 |
| LjL | Within the next few hours, a "call" to all companies that believe they have tests matching the requisites above will be opened and kept open for 5 days, after which, a panel identified by Arcuri will proceed with identifying the one test that will be chosen for conducting this study on a sample of 150000 Italian residents | 20:29 |
| genera | no not at night. at day. because to hot | 20:29 |
| LjL | this is from today's press conference | 20:29 |
| LjL | it might be extremely hypothetical but that's not what they are making it sound like | 20:30 |
| mefistofeles | btw, de wwe know if bats hibernate because of that or is the other way around? since they hibernate they can stand as many viruses without affecting and that's why they have? | 20:30 |
| mefistofeles | but that would be a nice thing to study, if haven't been studied yet | 20:30 |
| yuriwho | mefistofeles: when they hibernate, the body temp drops and the viral load is reduced | 20:30 |
| tinwhiskers | I don't think bats hibernate | 20:31 |
| yuriwho | well, deep sleep | 20:31 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh | 20:31 |
| yuriwho | the immune system is supressed when they are active and their body temp increases | 20:31 |
| mefistofeles | yuriwho: yes I know that, but funny still | 20:32 |
| genera | chemo-luminiscense | 20:32 |
| LjL | ynhof[m], it depends wholly on the virus. some viruses aren't removed entirely from the body, they hide in places where the immune system doesn't reach | 20:32 |
| wiirc | bats hibernate! | 20:32 |
| LjL | genera, that's the italian term roughly translated into english anyway, not sure if the translation is right | 20:32 |
| LjL | %tr <it chemoluminescenza | 20:32 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: chemoluminescenza (MyMemory, Google) | 20:32 |
| LjL | great | 20:32 |
| LjL | okay i'll finish transcribing this LAST press conference | 20:33 |
| ynhof[m] | Yeah there was some reports of the virus remaining in an infected pharynx for a long time | 20:33 |
| LjL | i'll do it in my notepad | 20:33 |
| Birosso | Why is it last? | 20:33 |
| yuriwho | you guys should listen the poscasts "this week in virology" and "Das Coronavirus" | 20:33 |
| LjL | Birosso, because the numbers are SO GOOD (not really?) that they have decided to make it a twice-weekly thing instead of daily | 20:33 |
| yuriwho | podcasts | 20:33 |
| LjL | yuriwho, is it possible i'll understand, technically speaking, shit all? | 20:34 |
| yuriwho | try it | 20:34 |
| LjL | okay | 20:34 |
| Birosso | %cases italy | 20:34 |
| Brainstorm | Birosso: In all areas, Italy, there are 172434 cases (0.3% of the population) and 22745 deaths (13.2% of cases) as of 14 minutes ago. 1.2 million tests were performed (13.9% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 20:34 |
| tinwhiskers | wiirc: so they do. Well, some bats that love at high latitude do. | 20:34 |
| Birosso | Love at High Latitude | 20:34 |
| Birosso | 2020's next bestseller? | 20:34 |
| yuriwho | the scientists are trying to discuss at a level that intelligent people can fully understand in those podcasts | 20:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:33 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Cuomo calls NY situation 'unsustainable' — Sanofi says it can mass produce vaccine, if it works → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 20:36 |
| yuriwho | even without biology knowlege | 20:36 |
| ynhof[m] | Hmm so if reinfection is a continuing concern, then there is no way the herd immunity model could work at all | 20:37 |
| ynhof[m] | Unless it was you and 5 friends | 20:37 |
| wiirc | When a bat hibernates, its metabolism slows down to conserve energy. Each day its body cycles in and out of a deep resting state known as torpor, in which the bat's heartbeat slows from 200-300 beats per minute to as few as 10 beats per minute. | 20:37 |
| wiirc | the virus must adapt to this | 20:38 |
| tinwhiskers | ynhof[m]: it's not like nobody will be immune, but it may mean vaccination rates with need to be very high to maintain herd immunity if say, 10% of people didn't develop good antibodies | 20:38 |
| yuriwho | ^ | 20:39 |
| Blankspace_ | Is us trying to achieve herd immunity | 20:39 |
| yuriwho | through vaccination | 20:39 |
| wiirc | reinfection happends if virus mutates just like with the flu | 20:40 |
| yuriwho | heh, I just convinced my optometrist to re-open his office just for me. I need new glasses to reduce eye strain/headaches from all the reading | 20:40 |
| tinwhiskers | wiirc: no these reinfections are not related to mutations | 20:40 |
| ynhof[m] | That is a good point. The first infection (from gut feeling) probably won't be the immunising infection for the majority. Second could be lucky and get immunity. | 20:41 |
| ynhof[m] | (Gut feeling = bs) | 20:42 |
| tinwhiskers | ynhof[m]: yeah, quite possibly | 20:42 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, no. For the majority it will still be immunizing | 20:42 |
| ynhof[m] | (Also I feel like I am holding up the chat. I am sorry, I am used to irc having multiple threads of convo at once/didn't realise) | 20:43 |
| tinwhiskers | A minority of people might not develop strong enough antibodies to prevent another infection | 20:43 |
| wiirc | the virus must hibernate it learned adapting to the host the bat | 20:44 |
| [Hoffman] | lol | 20:44 |
| wiirc | whats so funny? | 20:45 |
| ynhof[m] | Ah ok. From mish mash of what I heard the majority of antibodies are just transient i.e in a few months you will go from paying rent at pall mall to mayfair. | 20:46 |
| ynhof[m] | Maybe it is early days. | 20:46 |
| ynhof[m] | How do you know all this stuff you must be reading about covid 1 hour+ a day | 20:46 |
| ynhof[m] | The last part was meant to be a compliment but reads sarcastic | 20:47 |
| wiirc | i didnt get any off that | 20:48 |
| [Hoffman] | wiirc: the thing you said | 20:48 |
| [Hoffman] | wiirc: viruses dont learn | 20:48 |
| [Hoffman] | I thought you were joking | 20:48 |
| [Hoffman] | they have no brains! | 20:48 |
| [Hoffman] | or even neurons | 20:48 |
| wiirc | right | 20:48 |
| [Hoffman] | right | 20:48 |
| Arsanerit | My sister works in a hospital, she was telling about two COVID-19-infected parents who gave birth to twins who are tested negative, and consequently they're not allowed to be with their newborns. | 20:49 |
| [Hoffman] | cool | 20:50 |
| wiirc | supper buggs they have no brains! but yet they learned to become imune to anti-biotics | 20:51 |
| genera | they dont allow fathers-to-be here, too. too dangerous to all. no hospital vistis. | 20:51 |
| [Hoffman] | wiirc: they didnt learn anything cuz they got no brains | 20:51 |
| [Hoffman] | wiirc: what happens is that they all randomly mutate | 20:51 |
| [Hoffman] | and the less successful mutations survive less | 20:51 |
| [Hoffman] | so the more successful mutations survive more | 20:51 |
| [Hoffman] | theres no thought that goes into it; it's totally random | 20:51 |
| wiirc | randomly mutate .... | 20:51 |
| [Hoffman] | thats what I said | 20:52 |
| ynhof[m] | Wow I match the description of the virus | 20:52 |
| [Hoffman] | dont copy me ;p | 20:52 |
| [Hoffman] | lol | 20:52 |
| [Hoffman] | 2 hofs | 20:52 |
| [Hoffman] | both bracketed | 20:52 |
| wiirc | not as random as they want you to believe | 20:52 |
| tinwhiskers | ynhof[m]: this is interesting: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/08/covid-19-antibody-update-for-april-8 | 20:52 |
| [Hoffman] | wiirc: totally random | 20:53 |
| tinwhiskers | ynhof[m]: Derek Lowe has a lot of very good coverage of clinical trials and research papers at https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/ | 20:53 |
| wiirc | bacteria exchange Dna to learn new tricks | 20:53 |
| ynhof[m] | Cheers!! | 20:54 |
| wiirc | totally random bs | 20:54 |
| [Hoffman] | ugh | 20:54 |
| tinwhiskers | [Hoffman]: organisms "learning" is a colloquial way of saying adapting. It's not literally correct but commonly used. | 20:54 |
| [Hoffman] | tinwhiskers: it isnt tho | 20:54 |
| [Hoffman] | I get that we understood what was meant because we are smart | 20:55 |
| [Hoffman] | but that dont make it right, even colloquially innit | 20:55 |
| tinwhiskers | great | 20:55 |
| ubLXI | if you disallow metaphor, you disallow language | 20:55 |
| ubLXI | discuss | 20:55 |
| ubLXI | or, don't | 20:55 |
| [Hoffman] | no | 20:55 |
| tinwhiskers | it makes it "common use", which should be sufficient except to the overly pedantic... | 20:55 |
| [Hoffman] | I disallow discussing | 20:55 |
| [Hoffman] | also language | 20:55 |
| [Hoffman] | tinwhiskers: Ive seen 1 guy in my whole life use it like that | 20:55 |
| [Hoffman] | and thats this guy | 20:56 |
| [Hoffman] | so I guess we each speak from our own experience | 20:56 |
| [Hoffman] | and we just have different experiences! | 20:56 |
| [Hoffman] | C: | 20:56 |
| tinwhiskers | ok | 20:56 |
| ubLXI | i just read that AP article like 5 times | 20:56 |
| ubLXI | the only charge that seems to stick is that one of the side effect of China's authoritarian regime is the tendency towards powerful internal and vertical suppression of timely propagation of information | 20:56 |
| davros | learning by brute force evolution | 20:56 |
| wiirc | brute force evolution LOL | 20:56 |
| wiirc | thats a good way to put it | 20:57 |
| davros | in machine learning genetic algorithms is a thing :) | 20:57 |
| davros | "it's like a natural version of a certain machine learning algorithm, ..." | 20:57 |
| [Hoffman] | um | 20:57 |
| [Hoffman] | ack-chu-ally no learning is done there its just math | 20:57 |
| [Hoffman] | ;p | 20:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 18:55 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Walmart meets and raises its hiring goal, investors 'hungry' for good news → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 20:58 |
| davros | all learning is just math | 20:58 |
| [Hoffman] | u r | 20:58 |
| davros | just a question of how the math is organised | 20:58 |
| davros | everything is just math | 20:58 |
| davros | there's information transfer, and information filtering | 20:59 |
| davros | i guess you'd have to distinguish "intelligent learning" from "brute-force-statistical learning" | 20:59 |
| ynhof[m] | But there is stateful logic no | 20:59 |
| davros | it would probably be better to say evolving rather than learning though | 21:00 |
| davros | nonetheless | 21:00 |
| tinwhiskers | yes | 21:01 |
| davros | given deep time and large populations, evolution has produced solutions that look so much like intelligence, some people are still convinced there is [intelligent design] | 21:01 |
| davros | ^ i mean produced solutions that look like they would have taken intelligence to produce | 21:02 |
| tinwhiskers | yah | 21:02 |
| davros | as such i'm sympathetic to stretching the definition of aterm like learning there, but i realise it would be confusing to most peolpe | 21:03 |
| davros | "the biospehre has learned to regulate .." etc | 21:03 |
| wiirc | testing drugs with no control group... | 21:04 |
| wiirc | its on cnn | 21:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American at 19:00 UTC: Health: Coronavirus Roundup for April 11-17 → https://is.gd/N9IMwX | 21:05 |
| tinwhiskers | s/testing/using/ | 21:05 |
| wiirc | chicago study | 21:05 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, yuriwho: i am transcribing the rest of the press conference since i had to stop, and i'm not taking up the channel for that, but there are some relevant passages to what we were saying earlier, so i'll just dump them here, then upload the whole thing later: | 21:05 |
| LjL | Why some people "clear" the virus faster or slower may be influenced by many variables, which may be related to viral load (it is reasonable to presume those with a low viral load can clear the infection faster) and to the efficiency of immune response against the virus, and this ties to the second part of your question: actual re-infection, versus an infectious process that just seemed to have stopped but then "re-ignited": try to understand, I certainly | 21:05 |
| LjL | don't want to doubt the data from our Korean colleagues, but I am more comforted when we have data from our own country. You rightly referred to one single case in Italy. There is a big question, but none of us have always denied it, about how long immunity may lasts, and that is why we've said, among other reasons, that this contributes to the need to avoid the term "immunity passport" inappropriately: We know that the antibody response is an indication | 21:05 |
| LjL | of exposure to the virus, of infection, and of an elaboration by the "humoral branch" of our immunity... but the response to a virus has a strong component from the "cell-mediated branch", involving T-lyphocites, and when we're talking about antibodies against SARS-CoV-2, we're talking about a whole world of diverse antibodies, where what we're interested in the most as doctors, as immunologists, is the tither of "neutralizing antibodies", those that | 21:06 |
| LjL | prevent attack by the virus on the cells of our body, and in particular on cells of our respiratory system, specifically the interaction with the receptor. They're all questions that only time will answer, but after conducting well-structured studies that need to be conducted with the utmost attention, without neglecting any aspect. | 21:06 |
| tinwhiskers | hrm. I thought the Chicago Remdesivir was controlled. wiirc: what are you ferring to? | 21:06 |
| tinwhiskers | *referring to | 21:06 |
| wiirc | cnn | 21:06 |
| tinwhiskers | uh | 21:06 |
| tinwhiskers | got a link to what you're talking about? "cnn" is not very specific. | 21:07 |
| wiirc | im still waiting for HIV vacine | 21:08 |
| wiirc | how long now? | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:09 UTC: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Walmart meets and raises its hiring goal, investors 'hungry' for good news → https://is.gd/FBzxNg | 21:12 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh, ok. Apparently the Chicago Remdesivir trial isn't properly controlled: "Note also that this trial is open-label; both doctors and patients know who is getting what, and note the really key point: there is no control arm". | 21:15 |
| tinwhiskers | what a terrible shame | 21:15 |
| genera | so how many arms? | 21:17 |
| bin_bash | wow that's ridiculously fucked up | 21:18 |
| bin_bash | throw the whole study away | 21:18 |
| tinwhiskers | Derek Lowe on the study: https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/17/whats-happening-with-remdesivir | 21:21 |
| tinwhiskers | I seem to be a one-trick Derek Lowe pony atm | 21:21 |
| l0ndoner | at what point do we get to when all restraints are waived and any thing can be tested? | 21:27 |
| l0ndoner | anything | 21:28 |
| LjL | Italy has also announced an app called "Immuni" (but not available yet) that will be used on a voluntary basis for indicating you have symptoms, and tracing contacts of those you've met | 21:28 |
| LjL | The "meetings" will be based on Bluetooth I understand. i had no indication that this app is based on BlueTrace or any other standardized protocol (or in the process of standardization). | 21:29 |
| wiirc | tabaco and alcohol sounds promising | 21:29 |
| davros | https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/04/17/1000092/ai-machine-learning-watches-social-distancing-at-work/?utm_medium=tr_social&utm_campaign=site_visitor.unpaid.engagement&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1587145642 | 21:30 |
| davros | https://vitals.lifehacker.com/sorry-we-did-not-all-get-and-recover-from-covid-19-thi-1842798877?utm_campaign=lifehacker&utm_content=1587061230&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=twitter | 21:30 |
| genera | sound and alcohol | 21:30 |
| davros | to make that fair , the sentry guns should only aim at the pereson moving toward another, not just "anyone within 6 feet" | 21:31 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: bluetooth seems to be a bit too long range, but I guess if you combine it with proximity time it might be kinda useful. | 21:32 |
| aradesh | graph of coronavirus in the US vs other instances of flu, etc https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV0Ei5bVAAMny0Z?format=png | 21:33 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, apps can access signal strength on Android i believe, although that's pretty rough if uncalibrated | 21:33 |
| tinwhiskers | oh. really. that's great then | 21:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 19:31 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Cina → https://is.gd/uEfKju | 21:34 |
| tinwhiskers | Now I feel left out because we have no cases here :-( | 21:34 |
| wiirc | i think this got worse cause of people having to go out in the cold to smoke and catching colds | 21:34 |
| LjL | aw | 21:34 |
| aradesh | tinwhiskers: lucky | 21:35 |
| wiirc | were? | 21:37 |
| tinwhiskers | still | 21:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 19:36 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: Antibody Testing Reveals Coronavirus 50-85 Times More Widespread Than Previously Known and Thus Far Less Dangerous Than Expected → https://is.gd/mZg2Bw | 21:41 |
| genera | might as well point to undertasting | 21:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:46 UTC: (news): If Sanofi's coronavirus vaccine works, CEO says it can produce up to 600 million doses next year → https://is.gd/CChrz9 | 21:48 |
| MinceR | if it doesn't, they can produce even more! | 21:49 |
| l0ndoner | https://ibb.co/Jd9FGH3 | 21:49 |
| l0ndoner | Lazy bassssstards | 21:49 |
| davros | aradesh, thats a great graph to show people who insist "its just flu" | 21:50 |
| davros | we still get those | 21:50 |
| truthr | davros: can you link the graph | 21:51 |
| davros | but those guys will just pick whatever graph fits their idea "i dont like social distancing" | 21:51 |
| davros | truthr, https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EV0Ei5bVAAMny0Z?format=png posted by aradesh above | 21:52 |
| aradesh | yup | 21:52 |
| davros | that graph illustrates the point that is missing when the "total number of deaths" looks undewhelming | 21:53 |
| l0ndoner | trump is now saying people are nicking masks from hospitals there is no way so many mask can be used in NY | 21:53 |
| aradesh | maybe there are | 21:53 |
| aradesh | i mean, maybe they have been stolen | 21:53 |
| aradesh | i'd imagine there is a lot of will to do it, when you realise you can sell them for a high mark up | 21:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 19:49 UTC: WHO says China revised coronavirus infection data to 'leave no case undocumented': Wuhan, the epicenter of the coronavirus outbreak in China, added 325 confirmed coronavirus cases and 1,290 deaths to the city's Covid-19 count after "a city-wide investigation," state media reported earlier Friday. → https://is.gd/UQeUPN | 21:55 |
| truthr | davros: THANKS | 21:57 |
| truthr | oops | 21:57 |
| truthr | caps sorry | 21:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 19:49 UTC: 'Nature is enjoying itself without us': coronavirus frees nature in Lebanon – video: Nature experts in Lebanon have noticed cleaner and clearer air filled with migratory birds as Beirut remains under lockdown during the coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/l8nv7Y | 22:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Italy Live* at 20:06 UTC: /u/pixelcraftables: Italia → https://is.gd/a9Pj4M | 22:10 |
| tinwhiskers | aradesh: deaths per million in the US is now 102, not 45 as when that graph was made :-/ | 22:12 |
| jester | https://www.newsweek.com/coronavirus-outbreak-september-not-wuhan-1498566 | 22:13 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Two-thirds of Americans worry states will lift restrictions on public activity too quickly: poll (10460 votes) | https://redd.it/g35qvz | 22:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test)* at 20:13 UTC: CoronaVirusInfo: The @stanford antibody testing is out - it estimates ~3% of people in Santa Clara County (CA) have been infected and recovered, 50-plus times the estimate of confirmed active cases. More evidence #SARSCoV2 is far more widespread and thus less dangerous than expected. → https://is.gd/6mtOJD | 22:17 |
| LjL | "far more widespread and thus less dangerous" | 22:23 |
| LjL | i still don't get this | 22:23 |
| LjL | 3% is not 70% | 22:23 |
| LjL | there is no herd immunity | 22:23 |
| AimHere | Less dangerous in that the CFR is lower than a naive observer would expect | 22:23 |
| LjL | we know how many people died (roughly), and we know that number has yet to cover the remaining 97% of the population before it's the full number | 22:23 |
| LjL | AimHere, yes but we already know the number of deaths | 22:23 |
| AimHere | But you know someone is going to spin this as "Bad flu! Herd Immunity! Lift the lockdown! Lets go!" | 22:24 |
| AimHere | Yeah | 22:24 |
| iz | LjL: yeah, i was thinking the same thing.. seems like a huge jump in logic to conclude that | 22:25 |
| LjL | yeah, so on the one hand, it says there are actually many more infected than thought, but instead of being like "yikes, but that's still just 3% so we're going to see the deaths we've had multiplied many, many times over because 97% are NOT immune", some people will go "oh the CFR is 0.3% so who cares" | 22:25 |
| LjL | one thing to be considered is that the CFR is highly dependend on how many patients can get treated | 22:25 |
| LjL | lift the lockdowns and pretend nothing is happening, and that approaches 0% of patients | 22:26 |
| iz | in the usa, florida is gonna open it's beaches again tonight | 22:27 |
| iz | *its | 22:27 |
| LjL | which seems more or less what they're doing in sweden: i need to find confirmation of this, but they're basically business as usual and they're having a policy of people over 80, or, alternative, over 65 with comorbidities, automatically "failing triage" | 22:27 |
| LjL | don't quote me on that, if i have an article it's buried somewhere | 22:28 |
| tinwhiskers | iz: well, I suppose we need someone to do that to see how badly things can go | 22:28 |
| iz | yeah, let's start w/ one of the states w/ the highest percentage of ppl over 65 :b | 22:29 |
| tinwhiskers | :-/ | 22:30 |
| tinwhiskers | you wanna test the "worst case scenario" though, right? | 22:30 |
| iz | lol :/ | 22:30 |
| LjL | test, or get rid of? | 22:30 |
| iz | curious to see what spain's daily increase in infected will be today | 22:31 |
| rager | 80 years should be enough for anyone, right? | 22:32 |
| ecks | "biological age of 80+" or "biological age of 60-80 and significant failure in one or more organ systems" | 22:34 |
| LjL | the thing from Sweden was part of a "series" of tweets by Italian doctors showing the grass is not always greener on the other side of the fence. this one is not about Sweden but still: https://twitter.com/ProfLopalco/status/1249423244916031489/photo/1 | 22:34 |
| LjL | https://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/samhalle/a/lAyePy/dokument-visar-de-prioriteras-bort-fran-intensivvard | 22:38 |
| LjL | %tr Personer med en biologisk ålder över 80 år ska prioriteras bort i intensivvården under coronakrisen. Detsamma gäller de mellan 70 och 80 år som har signifikant svikt i mer än ett organsystem. Det framgår av dokument som Karolinska universitetssjukhuset har skickat ut till ansvariga läkare. | 22:38 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Swedish to English: People with a biological age over 80 should be given priority in intensive care during the corona crisis. The same applies to those between 70 and 80 years who have significant failure in more than one organ system. This is evidenced by documents that Karolinska University Hospital has sent to responsible doctors. (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 22:38 |
| LjL | no no no | 22:38 |
| LjL | the original says "ska prioriteras bort" | 22:38 |
| LjL | that means they will be "prioritized AWAY" | 22:38 |
| LjL | i.e. the opposite of what google translates | 22:39 |
| iz | rude boy bort | 22:39 |
| ecks | this only applies to one university hospital from what i see | 22:41 |
| LjL | sure, not one very random hospital | 22:42 |
| LjL | "It is recognised as Sweden's best university and one of the largest, most prestigious medical universities in the world. It is the highest ranked in all Scandinavia. The Nobel Assembly at the Karolinska Institute awards the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine." | 22:42 |
| LjL | "a teaching hospital affiliated with Karolinska Institutet in Stockholm, Sweden, with two major sites in the municipalities of Solna and Huddinge. The hospital network is the second largest in Swedish, after Sahlgrenska University Hospital." | 22:42 |
| ecks | most areas in sweden still have plenty of ICU capacity | 22:43 |
| ecks | stockholm has been hit hardest | 22:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 20:22 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: nearly 100,000 EU citizens remain stranded overseas due to pandemic → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 22:46 |
| LjL | ecks, well, it's also the most populated area, so it matters. and it matters that triaging is happening while the government is still not considering a lockdown... | 22:53 |
| LjL | triaging happened here in Lombardy, too, but with all the wrong decisions that have been made here, at least we're fully locked down | 22:54 |
| ecks | yes, but it's still not "policy in sweden" | 22:55 |
| Butterfly^ | https://i.imgur.com/FCiKrfq.jpg New Zealand did it right | 22:59 |
| LjL | that's fair, but that's why i said 20<LjL>30 don't quote me on that, if i have an article it's buried somewhere | 22:59 |
| LjL | and then later went and found the article for exactness | 22:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health at 20:53 UTC: California governor names Steyer, Yellen and tech CEOs to business recovery task force: The task force's goal is to help Californian's recover as fast as possible from the economic calamity resulting from the coronavirus. It will include former Chair of the Federal Reserve Janet Yellen, Disney Executive Chairman Bob [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/zMKRiI | 23:00 |
| l0ndoner | 80 year olds have priority to anyone else in sweden? | 23:11 |
| Timvde | %cases Sweden | 23:17 |
| Brainstorm | Timvde: In all areas, Sweden, there are 13216 cases (0.1% of the population) and 1400 deaths (10.6% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 74600 tests were performed (17.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Sweden for time series data. | 23:17 |
| Timvde | %cases Belgium | 23:17 |
| Brainstorm | Timvde: In all areas, Belgium, there are 36138 cases (0.3% of the population) and 5163 deaths (14.3% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 139387 tests were performed (25.9% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Belgium for time series data. | 23:17 |
| tinwhiskers | l0ndoner: what are you referring to? | 23:17 |
| Timvde | 14.3% O.o | 23:17 |
| Timvde | %cases Italy | 23:17 |
| Brainstorm | Timvde: In all areas, Italy, there are 172434 cases (0.3% of the population) and 22745 deaths (13.2% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 1.2 million tests were performed (13.9% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 23:18 |
| l0ndoner | LjL: Swedish to English: People with a biological age over 80 should be given priority in intensive care during the corona crisis. | 23:18 |
| Timvde | l0ndoner: Is there also such thing as a non-biological age? | 23:19 |
| ecks | it's the opposite | 23:19 |
| LjL | l0ndoner, no, read also the thing i wrote just below that please! | 23:19 |
| ecks | chronological age vs biological age | 23:19 |
| tinwhiskers | Oh. I see | 23:19 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: I think it means what google translated, I found another source with different wording saying the same | 23:19 |
| LjL | i thought "no no no" would do a decent job of highlighting it | 23:19 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: https://omni.se/dokument-visar-personer-over-80-ar-ska-prioriteras-bort-fran-intensivvarden/a/jdEp6q fwiw | 23:20 |
| mefistofeles | so no triaging thing, afaic | 23:20 |
| ecks | no it doesn't | 23:20 |
| mefistofeles | afaics | 23:20 |
| ecks | google translates wrong | 23:20 |
| mefistofeles | ecks: for two different wording? that's odd | 23:21 |
| tinwhiskers | nah... just a minor detail... nevermind that it means completely the opposite. | 23:21 |
| l0ndoner | LjL: I apologise my friend | 23:21 |
| mefistofeles | tinwhiskers: so, we agree? I don't follow haha | 23:21 |
| l0ndoner | just seen the no no no | 23:21 |
| ecks | google translate is not infallible | 23:21 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, what is the other wording? | 23:21 |
| mefistofeles | LjL: just linked it | 23:21 |
| ecks | "prioriteras bort" means "will not be prioritized" | 23:22 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, it still says "ska prioriteras bort" | 23:22 |
| mefistofeles | not the headline | 23:22 |
| mefistofeles | of course xD | 23:22 |
| mefistofeles | %tr Personer med biologisk ålder över 80 år, samt multisjuka mellan 60 och 80 år, ska bortprioriteras i intensivvården. Det visar interna dokument från Karolinska universitetssjukhuset som Aftonbladet och SvD tagit del av. | 23:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Guardian at 21:10 UTC: Coronavirus outbreak: Coronavirus live news: nearly 100,000 EU citizens remain stranded overseas due to pandemic → https://is.gd/b5N6B1 | 23:22 |
| Brainstorm | mefistofeles, Swedish to English: Persons with a biological age over 80 years, as well as multi-illnesses between 60 and 80 years, should be given priority care in intensive care. It shows internal documents from Karolinska University Hospital that Aftonbladet and SvD have taken part in. (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 23:22 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, "The document has been sent to responsible physicians at the hospital and lists patient groups that will receive intensive care. However, a doctor whom SvD talked to says that it is difficult to relate to the guidelines and calls them "scary"." | 23:22 |
| LjL | are they calling "scary" prioritizing the vulnerable do you think? | 23:23 |
| _abc_ | important discovery, 60 degC does not kill sars-cov2 in one hour, takes 92 degC and 15 mins under "dirty" conditions. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8230337/Coronavirus-survive-exposure-high-temperatures-long-periods-study-shows.html | 23:23 |
| LjL | "bortprioritera" is of course just the infinitive form of "prioritera bort" | 23:23 |
| LjL | mefistofeles, also the whole headline, "Personer över 80 år ska prioriteras bort från intensivvården" let's not focus on the "prioriteras bort" since i cannot prove it means what i think it means... it's followed by "från", which means "from". if you're actually prioritized, you are prioritized TO, not FROM | 23:25 |
| LjL | if you're de-prioritized, or down-prioritized, or "prioritized away", then it can be "from" | 23:25 |
| ecks | i can prove it means "will not be prioritized" | 23:25 |
| ecks | source: am native speaker | 23:25 |
| tinwhiskers | thanks ecks. I think we can close this case! | 23:25 |
| mefistofeles | if you only said earlier xD | 23:25 |
| mefistofeles | thanks | 23:25 |
| mefistofeles | freaking gt | 23:26 |
| LjL | and i can prove it by saying i understand swedish | 23:26 |
| LjL | sort of | 23:26 |
| LjL | but i thought that was sort of implied when i said "no no no", too ;( | 23:26 |
| LjL | inte väldigt bra but nog för att fatta det här | 23:27 |
| LjL | but, lol | 23:27 |
| LjL | men | 23:27 |
| tinwhiskers | me too - börk börk | 23:27 |
| navonod | lutefisk | 23:43 |
| MinceR | hakarl | 23:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews Live* at 21:48 UTC: /u/slakmehl: The COVID Tracking Project su Twitter: "Reported deaths were again over 2,000 today.… " → https://is.gd/m9fGGa | 23:51 |
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