| Jigsy | Considering the following: | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| Jigsy | 3>Children are less likely to get COVID-19 | 00:00 |
| Jigsy | 3>Oh, btw, children from separate households aren't allowed to mix | 00:00 |
| LjL | Jigsy, the whole thing about children is quite unclear atm | 00:02 |
| LjL | i don't know if they're less likely to get it and i don't know if they're less likely to infect others, although there's studies indicating so | 00:02 |
| LjL | but then there's other more recent studies suggesting the opposite! | 00:02 |
| de-facto | at least their throat and pharyngeal swabs have viral loads in the same order of magnitude than (a)symptomatic adults (similar RT-PCR cycle counts until detection), hence that would suggest comparable viral shedding | 00:05 |
| de-facto | and probably young children in kindergarden/(pre)school cant really follow hygiene concepts like distancing and wearing masks, so at least the question of if their mixing together in (the same) groups can be a "corona-virus hub" (similar to the common colds they frequently bring home) may be asked. | 00:07 |
| de-facto | Was it determined how much opening schools contributed to the second wave magnitude in Israel? | 00:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: 'A step back': COVID-19 infections reach all-time high in US nursing homes amid surge of cases in Sunbelt states → https://is.gd/ksykaW | 00:47 |
| de-facto | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxAaO2rsdIs | 00:47 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.youtube.com: Simulating an epidemic - YouTube | 00:47 |
| de-facto | that demonstrates the effect of a central location pretty well :) | 00:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Coronavirus gets dangerously close to isolated ‘Arrow People’ in Amazon → https://is.gd/AyaunL | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Coronavirus brings a wave of early retirements → https://is.gd/9W5any | 01:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Notre Dame temporarily shifts to remote classes to try to curb coronavirus outbreak, warns it may send students home → https://is.gd/pTsf6X | 01:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +66126 cases (now 22.4 million), +1683 deaths (now 783968) since 2 hours ago — Brazil: +41610 cases (now 3.4 million), +1119 deaths (now 110019) since 5 hours ago — Colombia: +12462 cases (now 489122), +247 deaths (now 15619) since 23 hours ago — US: +7995 cases (now 5.7 million), +205 deaths (now 174941) since 2 hours ago | 01:38 |
| Dyna | %stats Victoria | 01:39 |
| Brainstorm | Dyna: In Victoria, Australia, there have been 17238 confirmed cases (0.3% of the population) and 351 deaths (2.0% of cases) as of 18 hours ago. 69000 tests were performed (25.0% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Victoria for time series data. | 01:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Coronavirus smell loss 'different from cold and flu': Covid-19 is not like other typical viral respiratory diseases and has some unique features, say experts. → https://is.gd/RvJ9ms | 01:45 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Doctors say they're dealing with significantly more patients who resist their advice because of misinformation they read online (10170 votes) | https://www.insider.com/doctors-say-more-patients-are-denying-medical-advice-misinformation-2020-8 | https://redd.it/ic4evb | 02:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Hope College confirms that 38 positive cases occurred prior to move-in → https://is.gd/WJfLLG | 02:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Study finds no race difference in COVID-19 hospital deaths → https://is.gd/fSxo7r | 02:24 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +15252 cases (now 22.4 million), +360 deaths (now 784328) since an hour ago — Peru: +7828 cases (now 549321), +177 deaths (now 26658) since 15 hours ago — Argentina: +6840 cases (now 305966), +171 deaths (now 6048) since 8 hours ago — Bahamas: +95 cases (now 1424), +1 deaths (now 20) since a day ago | 02:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Domestic violence rose during lockdown — and injuries are dramatically more severe, study finds | as restrictions "began to lift in Massachusetts, physicians at a large hospital in Boston saw a near-doubling of the proportion of domestic abuse cases that resulted in physical injury…" → https://is.gd/tsUixf | 02:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: In 15 days since returning to campus, Duke University has only recorded 11 cases out of 5,765 tests → https://is.gd/LrzFJW | 02:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Sturgis Rally: Health department warns of potential COVID-19 exposure at saloon → https://is.gd/PhpF62 | 03:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Libya: +489 cases (now 9068), +7 deaths (now 164) since 23 hours ago — World: +3173 cases (now 22.4 million), +142 deaths (now 784470) since 56 minutes ago — US: +2437 cases (now 5.7 million), +123 deaths (now 175074) since 56 minutes ago — Panama: +247 cases (now 82790), +21 deaths (now 1809) since a day ago | 03:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Australia's PM says coronavirus vaccine will be mandatory → https://is.gd/34r35z | 03:32 |
| LjL | ↑ there we go | 03:34 |
| LjL | they just signed a deal with Oxford | 03:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Notre Dame to move classes online for 2 weeks; Yale saliva test may miss some infections → https://is.gd/8BHPcr | 03:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +6317 cases (now 22.4 million), +767 deaths (now 785237) since 35 minutes ago — Mexico: +5506 cases (now 531239), +751 deaths (now 57774) since a day ago — Paraguay: +471 cases (now 10606), +16 deaths (now 161) since 21 hours ago — Jamaica: +17 cases (now 1146) since a day ago | 03:54 |
| BeardedSmith432 | hello everyone | 04:04 |
| BeardedSmith432 | https://freedomplatform.tv/plandemic-indoctornation-world-premiere/ facebook has banned this. should check it out. if its not cool to post it kick me i guess. worth the watch | 04:05 |
| LjL | BeardedSmith432, no, honestly yeah i would normally kick you for that, we don't like the word "plandemic", we don't like downplaying what's happening... none of that. but maybe you can stay and see what the real thing is about. | 04:07 |
| BeardedSmith432 | LjL i mean no disrespect at all and wont post further. i think the virus is most certainly real but i think its being used politically. im more than happy to have a dialog about it | 04:14 |
| LjL | BeardedSmith432, well just about anything that can be used politically, is | 04:14 |
| LjL | doesn't make the epidemic planned | 04:14 |
| BeardedSmith432 | LjL i know many doctors and medical professionals and theres some conflict is all im saying | 04:15 |
| BeardedSmith432 | LjL i understand theres differences of opinons. | 04:15 |
| BeardedSmith432 | everything now days is used against us to either create fear or divide us i feel | 04:16 |
| LjL | what do your medical acquaintances say | 04:17 |
| BeardedSmith432 | LjL i just find it curious that we never did this for H1N1 or swine or ebola etc. millions died from those but we didnt do what we've done now | 04:18 |
| BeardedSmith432 | well on fort hood military base theres been only two confirmed deaths and one was in renal failure already and the other arrived with a mild heart attack. | 04:18 |
| BeardedSmith432 | both very old | 04:18 |
| LjL | millions didn't die for ebola. many died, in horrible ways, but it's still somewhat confined to africa and not very easily transmissible | 04:19 |
| BeardedSmith432 | the seasonal flu kills more people. cigs and alcohol kill more | 04:19 |
| BeardedSmith432 | LjL i meant combined | 04:19 |
| LjL | about 1600 people died from ebola, and, sad as it is, the fact it's remained confined to africa is the main reason we haven't been all that concerned | 04:19 |
| LjL | well okay | 04:19 |
| BeardedSmith432 | what of swine or h1n1? | 04:19 |
| LjL | ALL THINGS THAT AREN'T COVID COMBINED, they kill many more people than COVID | 04:20 |
| LjL | i will accept that | 04:20 |
| LjL | although i'm not sure what that tells me about whether we should do things about COVID | 04:20 |
| BeardedSmith432 | i think its been politicized this time but is no more harmful than seasonal flu is all | 04:20 |
| LjL | H1H1, wikipedia tells me it killed 18000 people in 2009, which i understand is its main year | 04:21 |
| BeardedSmith432 | to have to wear a maks to walk into a dinner and then take off at the table makse no sense | 04:21 |
| LjL | of course it killed "some" people in 1918 but that's when measures like we're having now WERE instated | 04:21 |
| dzho | wow are we still doing this | 04:21 |
| LjL | yes, we shouldn't be allowed to have dinners out, that's entirely silly | 04:21 |
| dzho | generally, vulnerable populations have access to a vaccine for flu | 04:21 |
| LjL | dzho, it beats just listening to the bot say stuff nobody even clicks on anymore | 04:22 |
| dzho | health care workers, the elderly, those with other conditions | 04:22 |
| BeardedSmith432 | thats my point. the tactics which they layed out to defeat this are silly and controlling at best | 04:22 |
| LjL | BeardedSmith432, i don't know how you jump from silly to controlling | 04:22 |
| LjL | there are obvious reasons why they give people exceptions | 04:22 |
| dzho | what's your point? | 04:22 |
| dzho | exceptions? | 04:22 |
| LjL | restaurants in a country like mine will be like "you can't keep us shut down forever, we'll fail" | 04:22 |
| LjL | and so they don't | 04:22 |
| LjL | and they let them reopen | 04:23 |
| LjL | seems pretty obvious they're dancing around the economy vs health | 04:23 |
| LjL | but where does the jump to "controlling" come from | 04:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Friuli Venezia Giulia, Italy: +3473 cases (now 6944), +346 deaths (now 694) since 10 hours ago — Puglia, Italy: +3009 cases (now 4862) since 10 hours ago — Lazio, Italy: +2846 cases (now 9178) since 10 hours ago — Liguria, Italy: +1861 cases (now 10474) since 10 hours ago | 04:23 |
| BeardedSmith432 | yet walmart never skipped a beat | 04:23 |
| BeardedSmith432 | many other big box stores kept open while the small people closed | 04:23 |
| dzho | to complete *my* point, with COVID there is no vaccine, yet, to give to the vulnerable and highly-exposed populations | 04:23 |
| LjL | not here | 04:23 |
| dzho | so we've been losing health -care workers that we can ill afford to lose | 04:24 |
| LjL | partly one of the thing with people like you is you automatically assume you're always talking to a US public | 04:24 |
| BeardedSmith432 | sports is fine but not voting. in what world is any sports program essintial? | 04:24 |
| LjL | i'm not US public | 04:24 |
| LjL | and the US government has behaved moronically | 04:24 |
| LjL | which just about nobody here doubts, i think | 04:24 |
| dzho | LjL: the US has so many governments | 04:24 |
| BeardedSmith432 | i have no assumptions youre american infact i doubt it | 04:24 |
| LjL | i'm talking about the federal government | 04:24 |
| LjL | luckily for me i haven't followed what every state government has been doing | 04:24 |
| dzho | I joke--if you like small government, come here, we have a lot of small government | 04:24 |
| LjL | i have my own governments to worry about | 04:24 |
| dzho | city, county, state, federal | 04:25 |
| BeardedSmith432 | i think we as an entire society regardless of geographic location need to stand up | 04:25 |
| dzho | school district, fire district, sidewalk improvement district, street light district | 04:25 |
| LjL | stand up and do... what? | 04:25 |
| dzho | library district | 04:25 |
| dzho | stand up to idiots who think this is fake | 04:25 |
| dzho | sorry | 04:25 |
| dzho | I used a word there | 04:26 |
| dzho | that was rash of me. | 04:26 |
| LjL | well besides he doesn't think it's fake | 04:26 |
| LjL | just that it's being exploited politically, apparently | 04:26 |
| LjL | which is honestly hard to doubt | 04:26 |
| dzho | fake magnitude | 04:26 |
| dzho | no worse than flu | 04:26 |
| BeardedSmith432 | i can see yall arent open for discussion so ill be on my way. if you dont see the problems withing hollywood and mainstream media then clearly youre closing your eyes | 04:26 |
| dzho | FOX is mainstream in the US | 04:27 |
| BeardedSmith432 | yes they are | 04:27 |
| dzho | but somehow that never gets included in this | 04:27 |
| BeardedSmith432 | right wing | 04:27 |
| LjL | what the hell do i care about hollywood? | 04:27 |
| dzho | ikr | 04:27 |
| BeardedSmith432 | when have i excluded them dzho | 04:27 |
| BeardedSmith432 | see thats the problem though LjL | 04:27 |
| BeardedSmith432 | people dont care so they get to keep doign what they do | 04:27 |
| LjL | look, if your country has a problem, and that problem is hollywood | 04:28 |
| LjL | fix it | 04:28 |
| LjL | don't come here and talk nonsense about a pandemic to me in europe | 04:28 |
| LjL | i can't possibly have a debate with someone who just throws things out there, like we're talking about the pandemic management measures and you go "if you can't see the problems in hollywood..." | 04:29 |
| LjL | that's not even goalpost moving, i don't even know what that's called | 04:29 |
| LjL | it's probably called making no sense | 04:29 |
| LjL | there's probably a lot to be analyzed about how governments have been handling this, and also how they may have been exploiting it. it's too bad many the people who are prone to such analyses cannot explain their position coherently. | 04:30 |
| dzho | LjL: not sure if you saw the opinion piece in the US from a while back, over a week ago now probably, recommending the US shut down until cases are 1 new case per day per 100,000 people | 04:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: WHO says we must not live in hope of coronavirus herd immunity → https://is.gd/gd1vyr | 04:30 |
| BeardedSmith432 | some people just eat what they're told. some think and question. good day to you both. thanks for not kicking me and having a bit of dialog. | 04:31 |
| dzho | LjL: that right there is what needs fixed but I'm not sure how one really goes about it. | 04:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Notre Dame to move classes online for 2 weeks; Yale saliva test may miss some infections → https://is.gd/8BHPcr | 04:40 |
| de-facto | so what will be the development with biggest impact on SARS-CoV-2 contagion until widespread vaccination is being done? | 04:41 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Novavax Initiates Efficacy Trial of COVID-19 Vaccine in South Africa (81 votes) | https://ir.novavax.com/news-releases/news-release-details/novavax-initiates-efficacy-trial-covid-19-vaccine-south-africa | https://redd.it/ica064 | 04:47 |
| LjL | dzho, i didn't see it but "shut down" can mean a lot of things apparently | 04:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Korea: +297 cases (now 16058) since 22 hours ago — World: +295 cases (now 22.4 million) since 41 minutes ago — Kazakhstan: +271 cases (now 103571) since 6 hours ago — Turks and Caicos: +17 cases (now 315) since 3 days ago | 04:53 |
| LjL | dzho, i saw a piece about the spanish flu in australia, they shut down once, then they reopened, then cases started going back up, and they shut down again, then they reopened, then cases started going back up, and the economy was too much in shambles for anyone to seriously propose shutting down again, and so they just let it run its course | 04:54 |
| LjL | can we do something differently effective, i don't know | 04:54 |
| de-facto | my best guess would be broadly available cheap and fast tests people can do themselves at home in large quantities would have the biggest impact until vaccination is ready | 05:02 |
| de-facto | just imagine you could do a cheap test everytime you brush your teeth or such | 05:03 |
| de-facto | if it could me made to cost only a few cents ... | 05:04 |
| Dyna | im from Victoria, australia, we are currently in Stage 4 Lockdown ... LjL yes our numbers went down and we reopened and we slowly fell back into stage 3lockdown. Then as the numbers rose, we went into stage 4 lockdown. Curfew of 8pm, if you are outside you must wear a mask at all times (otherwise can be fined $200) exercise restriced to 1 hour and you are only allowed to travel 5km from you place of residence ... | 05:15 |
| Dyna | All of our borders are closed, States and International borders closed. | 05:15 |
| Dyna | and still during this Stage 4 Lockdown, our numbers havent dropped much at all ... | 05:16 |
| de-facto | Do you know where the majority of cases in Victoria emerge from? Is it known how the virus can spread between compartments despite lockdown? | 05:16 |
| Dyna | Ohhh and you are only allowed to travel to your 'work, exeercise locations and shopping' but only allowed one person from household in grocery store | 05:17 |
| LjL | Dyna, i was talking about what Australia did with the Spanish flu... but anyway yeah, that sounds good, compared to the stuff with did... which was similar but when we had many more cases | 05:17 |
| LjL | problem is, how many times can this stunt be pulled | 05:17 |
| LjL | difference compared to 1918 is that we can expect a vaccine "soon" this time, i guess | 05:17 |
| LjL | Dyna, yes that does remind me a lot of italy's lockdown, probably not a coincidence | 05:17 |
| LjL | Dyna, do you have to carry any paperwork? | 05:18 |
| Dyna | No real location on where cases are emerging from. But we did have a large 'BLM' protest and had alot of cases emerge from there and also a huge number of cases came out when the lockdown was softened and people where out, bars, restaurants etc | 05:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: S&P 500 closes with a record high, erasing all losses since the pandemic hit → https://is.gd/PxWgae | 05:19 |
| Dyna | Ohhh yes, if you are out of the current 'essential' reasons for being outside your residence. you must have a permit | 05:19 |
| lesmo | %cases Mexico | 05:19 |
| Brainstorm | lesmo: In Mexico, there have been 531239 confirmed cases (0.4% of the population) and 57774 deaths (10.9% of cases) as of an hour ago. 1.2 million tests were performed (44.4% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.1% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 13.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Mexico for time series data. | 05:19 |
| Dyna | Ever for work you must have a permit for it | 05:19 |
| LjL | Dyna, it sounds like an almost verbatim copy of italy's mechanism | 05:21 |
| Dyna | yeah i think so | 05:21 |
| de-facto | how long since that stage 4 lockdown was implemented in Victoria? | 05:21 |
| Dyna | 3 weeks ago now ... and we have a minimum 3 more weeks | 05:22 |
| Dyna | stage 4 lockdown (6 weeks) with possible extension | 05:22 |
| de-facto | Asking because cause and effect might be quite delayed, but for whole of Australia new cases seem to be on decline since begin of August or such | 05:26 |
| de-facto | are you allowed to visit other families or friends at their home? and if not does that really not happen? | 05:28 |
| Dyna | nope not allowed to visit other family members and stuff | 05:30 |
| Dyna | the police here have been pulling cars over that have more then one passanger and are not displaying a permit | 05:31 |
| Dyna | and then fining the people | 05:31 |
| Dyna | Where are you guys from? | 05:31 |
| Dyna | Also | 05:31 |
| Dyna | %stats Australia | 05:31 |
| Brainstorm | Dyna: In Australia, there have been 23989 confirmed cases (0.1% of the population) and 450 deaths (1.9% of cases) as of an hour ago. 5.4 million tests were performed (0.4% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.4% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.9% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Australia for time series data. | 05:31 |
| de-facto | it seems like 42% of cases in Australia are of unknown origin https://covidlive.com.au/australia | 05:33 |
| de-facto | im from Germany | 05:34 |
| de-facto | 43.8% unknown origin in Victoria according to https://covidlive.com.au/vic | 05:35 |
| de-facto | heh thats pretty cool, can even see how many cases per postcode area https://covidlive.com.au/vic/postcode | 05:37 |
| de-facto | *active cases | 05:37 |
| Dyna | 21 active cases near me | 05:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Taiwan Changhua's public health bureau is under investigation because they tested an asymptomatic case, which is against central government rules for COVID testing. → https://is.gd/OkUlgV | 05:38 |
| bourbon | %stats south Dakota | 05:46 |
| Brainstorm | bourbon: In South Dakota, US, there have been 10360 confirmed cases (1.2% of the population) and 153 deaths (1.5% of cases) as of 22 hours ago. 126014 tests were performed (8.2% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.2% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 8.3% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 05:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Childhood syndrome linked to COVID-19 causes profound immune changes → https://is.gd/v2MYjO | 05:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: What Derailed America’s Covid Testing: Three Lost Weeks → https://is.gd/tpskVh | 06:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from EurekAlert!: Patients with recently discovered antibodies have more severe myasthenia gravis: A study of 181 patients at 16 sites across the country who test negative for two antibodies long known to cause muscle-weakening myasthenia gravis, found that about 15% test positive for one of two newly discovered antibodies that also attack the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/U8FGVW | 06:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: World Photography Day 2020: Pandemic lockdown through the lens → https://is.gd/Je4Yfm | 06:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belize: +78 cases (now 553) since a day ago — World: +1090 cases (now 22.4 million), +15 deaths (now 785332) since an hour ago — India: +647 cases (now 2.8 million) since 3 hours ago — Belgium: +363 cases (now 78897), +15 deaths (now 9959) since a day ago | 06:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Coronavirus is spreading in schools, but the federal government isn't keeping count → https://is.gd/doZZ48 | 06:56 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for British Columbia, Canada: +319 cases (now 4677), +2 deaths (now 198) since 4 days ago — Aruba, Netherlands: +84 cases (now 1205) since a day ago — World: +4103 cases (now 22.4 million), +62 deaths (now 785394) since 38 minutes ago — Ukraine: +1646 cases (now 96653), +30 deaths (now 2152) since a day ago | 07:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Australia promises free vaccines if trial succeeds → https://is.gd/b43QGe | 07:15 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Punjab, India: +1704 cases (now 34400), +35 deaths (now 898) since a day ago — Chhattisgarh, India: +808 cases (now 16833), +8 deaths (now 158) since a day ago — Bavaria, Germany: +330 cases (now 53418) since a day ago — Meta, Colombia: +310 cases (now 5653), +8 deaths (now 108) since a day ago | 07:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Food & Wine: Give South Indian appe a healthy twist with this recipe → https://is.gd/JwqVdC | 07:25 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Broad neutralization of SARS-related viruses by human monoclonal antibodies (80 votes) | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32540900/ | https://redd.it/ic0umy | 07:30 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: White House coronavirus adviser says she wishes US had locked down like Italy (10096 votes) | https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/deborah-birx-us-coronavirus-lockdown-italy-death-rate-white-house-a9675811.html | https://redd.it/ic9sv3 | 08:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: German institute says coronavirus vaccinations could start in early 2021 → https://is.gd/U6Kxvo | 08:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Notre Dame to move classes online for 2 weeks; Yale saliva test may miss some infections → https://is.gd/8BHPcr | 08:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: UK to ramp up household coronavirus testing: More swabbing will reveal how many people in the general population are infected at any given time. → https://is.gd/l3yyzv | 09:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Chinese airlines could recover from coronavirus slump more quickly than their peers → https://is.gd/PRl4CY | 09:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Tokyo reports 186 new COVID-19 cases for August 19th (as of 3PM JST) → https://is.gd/Zwifvz | 10:09 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +10760 cases (now 22.4 million), +248 deaths (now 785654) since 3 hours ago — Slovakia: +100 cases (now 3022), +2 deaths (now 33) since 23 hours ago — Russia: +4828 cases (now 937321), +117 deaths (now 15989) since 23 hours ago — Philippines: +4561 cases (now 173774), +108 deaths (now 2795) since 23 hours ago | 10:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Mexico ‘flying blind’ in pandemic response → https://is.gd/wrrI6P | 10:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Will Covid-19 vaccines be safe for children and pregnant women? The data, so far, are lacking: Public health experts want to be able to provide Covid-19 vaccine as soon as possible to children and women who are pregnant. But manufacturers aren't yet testing vaccines in those… → https://is.gd/9lXwVa | 10:38 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: SARS-CoV-2 Infection Among Community Health Workers in India Before and After Use of Face Shields (82 votes) | https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2769693 | https://redd.it/icdusp | 10:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Coronavirus: UK to ramp up coronavirus monitoring programme: More swabbing will reveal how many people in the general population are infected at any given time. → https://is.gd/l3yyzv | 11:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: Vaccine should be as 'mandatory as you can possibly make it,' Australian PM says: Australia's Prime Minister Scott Morrison said he's expecting to make a coronavirus vaccine "as mandatory as you can possibly make it," as the government announced a deal with drug maker AstraZeneca. → https://is.gd/oE2BoP | 11:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: 292 students, 14 teachers quarantined in Martin County over possible coronavirus cases → https://is.gd/Ba204x | 12:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: World “has to recover together” and help vulnerable states: bmj;370/aug19_2/m3245/FAF1faCredit: Fabeha Monir / Age InternationalA doctor tests the blood pressure of a man in the Rohingya camp in Cox’s Bazar, Bangladesh, one of the world’s largest refugee... → https://is.gd/gYbmqA | 12:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Scientists decode immune system changes in children with rare COVID-19 related syndrome → https://is.gd/RnRPfM | 13:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Atlantic: Long-Haulers Are Redefining COVID-19: Lauren Nichols has been sick with COVID-19 since March 10, shortly before Tom Hanks announced his diagnosis and the NBA temporarily canceled its season. She has lived through one month of hand tremors, three of fever, and four of night sweats. When we spoke on day 150, she was on her fifth [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Fl459y | 13:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Coronavirus: UK 'not considering' compulsory face masks in workplaces → https://is.gd/WQCziu | 13:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Coronavirus: Notre Dame to move classes online for 2 weeks; Yale saliva test may miss some infections → https://is.gd/8BHPcr | 13:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Coronavirus: UK to ramp up coronavirus monitoring programme: More swabbing will reveal how many people in the general population are infected at any given time. → https://is.gd/l3yyzv | 13:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Britain to ramp up mass testing; Roche and Regeneron team up on new drug → https://is.gd/BXKfiL | 14:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +13120 cases (now 22.4 million), +225 deaths (now 785879) since 3 hours ago — Croatia: +219 cases (now 7074), +2 deaths (now 168) since 23 hours ago — India: +3288 cases (now 2.8 million), +20 deaths (now 53046) since 6 hours ago — Bangladesh: +2747 cases (now 285091), +41 deaths (now 3781) since a day ago | 14:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: UK’s Heathrow Airport unveils new COVID-19 test plan to cut quarantine times → https://is.gd/9HRP8D | 14:31 |
| dzho | LjL: yeah, their model was reportedly based on what has "worked" in some places, claiming that that new-case rate (1 per day per 100K) is manageable by testing and other public health measures (contact tracing, quarantine) | 14:32 |
| dzho | LjL: and I'm pretty sure what they meant by "shut down" was essential workers only, with distancing and masks and testing and all the rest, not any of this "re-opening" stuff. | 14:35 |
| dzho | nationwide at the time of publishing the new case rate was 17 per 100K per day. | 14:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Britain to ramp up mass testing; Roche and Regeneron team up on new drug → https://is.gd/BXKfiL | 14:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: Ganpati Bappa goes online in COVID times with Zoom, FB, Google arti → https://is.gd/oWaUBN | 15:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Biotech: STAT Plus: Turning Point releases positive data for targeted cancer drug, points to more rapid FDA filing → https://is.gd/GLr1kX | 15:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Britain to ramp up mass testing; Roche and Regeneron team up on new drug → https://is.gd/BXKfiL | 15:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Coronavirus: UK 'not considering' compulsory face masks in workplaces → https://is.gd/WQCziu | 16:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Moldova: +626 cases (now 31415), +6 deaths (now 914) since 22 hours ago — World: +28771 cases (now 22.5 million), +555 deaths (now 786434) since 2 hours ago — India: +15041 cases (now 2.8 million), +118 deaths (now 53164) since 2 hours ago — Iraq: +4093 cases (now 188802), +85 deaths (now 6121) since 21 hours ago | 16:20 |
| Jigsy | %cases UK | 16:34 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In United Kingdom, there have been 320286 confirmed cases (0.5% of the population) and 41381 deaths (12.9% of cases) as of 22 hours ago. 18.3 million tests were performed (1.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 16:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for India: +27158 cases (now 2.8 million), +537 deaths (now 53701) since 18 minutes ago — World: +27173 cases (now 22.5 million), +537 deaths (now 786971) since 18 minutes ago — Myanmar: +15 cases (now 394) since 2 hours ago | 16:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: Health worker strikes, limited testing, and clinic closures hamper Zimbabwe’s response: Official figures on the impact of covid-19 in Zimbabwe belie a country grappling with health worker strikes, limited testing, and a closure of health facilities.The country had had 141 deaths from... → https://is.gd/9DNGQw | 16:57 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Connecticut issues an executive order. Essential employees who contracted covid19 are presumed to have contacted it at work and qualify for Workers Comp benefits (10467 votes) | https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/Office-of-the-Governor/Executive-Orders/Lamont-Executive-Orders/Executive-Order-No-7JJJ.pdf | https://redd.it/icmm9e | 17:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Most Americans embarrassed by U.S. response to coronavirus, CNN poll finds → https://is.gd/nKAdEl | 17:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +642 cases (now 255278), +7 deaths (now 35412) since 22 hours ago — World: +5141 cases (now 22.5 million), +179 deaths (now 787150) since 51 minutes ago — US: +4174 cases (now 5.7 million), +170 deaths (now 175303) since an hour ago — Portugal: +253 cases (now 54701), +2 deaths (now 1786) since 23 hours ago | 17:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Coronavirus: UK 'not considering' compulsory face masks in workplaces → https://is.gd/WQCziu | 17:27 |
| LjL | well that's not good for italy | 17:32 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: A single-dose intranasal ChAd vaccine protects upper and lower respiratory tracts against SARS-CoV-2 (87 votes) | https://www.cell.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0092-8674%2820%2931068-0 | https://redd.it/icoq73 | 17:34 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Jordan: +44 cases (now 1482) since 23 hours ago — World: +1493 cases (now 22.5 million), +121 deaths (now 787271) since 17 minutes ago — United Kingdom: +812 cases (now 321098), +16 deaths (now 41397) since 23 hours ago — US: +637 cases (now 5.7 million), +105 deaths (now 175408) since 17 minutes ago | 17:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Coronavirus live updates: CDC to test sewage systems for virus; schools likely years from return to 'normal' → https://is.gd/BXKfiL | 17:37 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: No higher risk of respiratory symptoms in Italian rheumatological patients under IL-6R-inhibitor therapy in SARS-CoV-2 pandemic (80 votes) | https://academic.oup.com/rheumatology/advance-article/doi/10.1093/rheumatology/keaa388/5878163 | https://redd.it/icms94 | 17:40 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +9915 cases (now 22.5 million), +174 deaths (now 787445) since 34 minutes ago — India: +8921 cases (now 2.8 million), +137 deaths (now 53838) since an hour ago — US: +975 cases (now 5.7 million), +36 deaths (now 175444) since 34 minutes ago — Andorra: +19 cases (now 1024) since a day ago | 18:05 |
| LjL | I take it back about Italy's numbers being particularly bad today... They ramped up the testing *a lot* so the ratio is not really worse than the past few days, and the ramping up of tests is a relief | 18:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Coronavirus in the UK: How many confirmed cases are there in your area? → https://is.gd/8rLBbe | 18:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Students are heading back to campus and so is the coronavirus as colleges scramble to cancel in-person classes → https://is.gd/26GD6o | 18:48 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Lebanon: +589 cases (now 10347), +2 deaths (now 109) since 23 hours ago — World: +11224 cases (now 22.5 million), +241 deaths (now 787686) since 47 minutes ago — Brazil: +6434 cases (now 3.4 million), +152 deaths (now 110171) since 17 hours ago — US: +3125 cases (now 5.7 million), +46 deaths (now 175490) since 47 minutes ago | 18:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELL'ECONOMIA E DELLE FINANZE - DECRETO 11 agosto 2020: Misura e modalita' di versamento all'Istituto di vigilanza sulleassicurazioni (IVASS) del contributo dovuto, per l'anno 2020, dalleimprese esercenti attivita' di assicurazione e riassicurazione.(20A04519) → https://is.gd/P2H0LR | 19:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from New Scientist: Covid-19 news: UK to expand random testing to identify virus outbreaks: The latest coronavirus news updated every day including coronavirus cases, the latest news, features and interviews from New Scientist and essential information about the covid-19 pandemic → https://is.gd/e2eVID | 19:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Florida surpasses 10,000 coronavirus deaths Wednesday → https://is.gd/7LboKG | 19:47 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Turkey: +1303 cases (now 253108), +23 deaths (now 6039) since a day ago — World: +28284 cases (now 22.5 million), +580 deaths (now 788266) since an hour ago — India: +11564 cases (now 2.8 million), +129 deaths (now 53978) since an hour ago — US: +5732 cases (now 5.7 million), +162 deaths (now 175652) since an hour ago | 19:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: 'Humbled' Boeing scores first new 737 Max orders since November: Boeing's cancellations have far outpaced orders of new aircraft this year as the pandemic hurts already weak demand. → https://is.gd/NbywBv | 19:57 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +1891 cases (now 22.5 million), +80 deaths (now 788346) since 17 minutes ago — India: +967 cases (now 2.8 million), +13 deaths (now 53991) since 17 minutes ago — Israel: +787 cases (now 97783), +62 deaths (now 781) since 6 hours ago — Syria: +83 cases (now 1927), +5 deaths (now 78) since a day ago | 20:06 |
| de-facto | LjL only a slight increase of tests per case since Sunday visible on https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/tests-per-confirmed-case-daily-smoothed?tab=chart&yScale=linear&country=~ITA | 20:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from ScienceMag: [Research Articles] Pathophysiological regulation of lung function by the free fatty acid receptor FFA4: Increased prevalence of inflammatory airway diseases including asthma and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) together with inadequate disease control by current frontline treatments means that there is a need to define [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/p6WAMa | 20:16 |
| LjL | de-facto, it says it's a rolling average | 20:17 |
| de-facto | if seen per capita its a bit more visible https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-tests-per-thousand-people-smoothed-7-day?tab=chart&country=~ITA | 20:17 |
| de-facto | yeah probably a rolling average there | 20:17 |
| de-facto | yeah weekly rolling average | 20:18 |
| LjL | de-facto, look here although this is not per capita but total number of tests (and the ratio is inverted) https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/en/#box_6 | 20:18 |
| LjL | there haven't been so many tests sine 14 may afaics | 20:19 |
| LjL | (but of course back then the positives were about half) | 20:19 |
| LjL | i mean half as now | 20:19 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +3809 cases (now 22.5 million), +100 deaths (now 788446) since 19 minutes ago — Ecuador: +1534 cases (now 104475), +41 deaths (now 6146) since a day ago — Ethiopia: +1336 cases (now 34058), +28 deaths (now 600) since a day ago — US: +938 cases (now 5.7 million), +31 deaths (now 175683) since 32 minutes ago | 20:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Coronavirus live updates: CDC to monitor sewage systems for virus; schools likely years from return to 'normal' → https://is.gd/BXKfiL | 20:26 |
| de-facto | LjL Tested people: Monday 10.90k -> 21.38k 196%, Tuesday 22k -> 32.68k 148%, Wednesday 27.33k -> 42.29k 154% | 20:30 |
| de-facto | "Trend persone testate" right? | 20:30 |
| de-facto | where do they specify the daily new cases over all of Italy there? | 20:30 |
| de-facto | "Giornalieri"? | 20:32 |
| LjL | de-facto, "trend persone testate" is the per capita, "trend tamponi" is all tests | 20:34 |
| LjL | "giornalieri" is the daily new cases yes | 20:34 |
| LjL | but it's hard to read the individual data point with hovering | 20:34 |
| LjL | you can disable deaths etc to only show the line you want | 20:35 |
| de-facto | Daily new cases found: Monday 476 -> 642 141%; Tuesday 412 -> 401 97%; Wendsday 259 -> 320 124% | 20:36 |
| de-facto | "Casi totali" | 20:38 |
| de-facto | so increase in tests / increase in cases: Monday 139%, Tuesday 152%, Wednesday 124% | 20:42 |
| de-facto | hence testing increased more than found cases, so they probably included a group with less prevalence | 20:43 |
| de-facto | LjL is it this dataset here? https://github.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19 | 20:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Gambia: +172 cases (now 2288), +14 deaths (now 77) since a day ago — World: +898 cases (now 22.5 million), +43 deaths (now 788489) since 32 minutes ago — Zimbabwe: +265 cases (now 5643), +9 deaths (now 150) since 19 hours ago — Germany: +158 cases (now 228372), +2 deaths (now 9307) since 49 minutes ago | 20:51 |
| LjL | de-facto, yes that looks like the most official dataset | 20:51 |
| de-facto | https://raw.githubusercontent.com/pcm-dpc/COVID-19/master/dati-regioni/dpc-covid19-ita-regioni.csv | 20:52 |
| de-facto | thats what that website queries in the browser | 20:52 |
| LjL | "tamponi" is the number of tests and "casi_testati" should be the total *people* tested | 20:52 |
| de-facto | nice they have it on github there :) | 20:53 |
| LjL | i am confused about spain's data | 20:54 |
| LjL | the main sites that pop up are confusing | 20:54 |
| LjL | it says | 20:54 |
| LjL | %tr <es El Ministerio de Sanidad ha detectado 3.715 casos en las últimas 24 horas, la cifra más alta de sus registros desde el pasado 23 de abril, pero ha sumado 6.671 contagios al balance total, que asciende a 370.867 desde el inicio de la pandemia. | 20:55 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Spanish to English: The Ministry of Health has detected 3,715 cases in the last 24 hours, the highest figure in its records since last April 23, but it has added 6,671 infections to the total balance, which amounts to 370,867 since the start of the pandemic. (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 20:55 |
| LjL | this sounds like 3715 are the cases *that occurred specifically within the past 24h* but the number to add to the total for today is 6671(!) | 20:55 |
| LjL | and offloop gives yet another number, 5000-something, but its Spain graph is all bad anyway | 20:55 |
| LjL | (with either data source) | 20:56 |
| de-facto | https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesionales/saludPublica/ccayes/alertasActual/nCov-China/documentos/Actualizacion_187_COVID-19.pdf | 20:56 |
| LjL | "nCov-China" | 20:57 |
| LjL | so WHO-noncompliant | 20:57 |
| LjL | ugh | 20:57 |
| LjL | that's about as absurdly stated as the above made me think | 20:57 |
| LjL | they tell you the cases diagnosed within the past 7 days, 14 days, and then the same again but only when symptoms began in that period | 20:58 |
| de-facto | oh sorry i meant https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesionales/saludPublica/ccayes/alertasActual/nCov-China/documentos/Actualizacion_188_COVID-19.pdf <- thats today of spain | 20:58 |
| LjL | and then the cases diagnosed in the past one day | 20:58 |
| LjL | but not *notified*, *diagnosed* | 20:58 |
| LjL | de-facto, same difference though | 20:59 |
| LjL | the 3715 total is not the same number as we expect of other countries | 20:59 |
| LjL | it only includes the ones that were tested yesterday! | 20:59 |
| LjL | which is absurd | 20:59 |
| LjL | of course there's often more than one day of delay between testing and notification | 20:59 |
| LjL | so they add those to the weekly and bi-weekly totals | 20:59 |
| LjL | which makes it not very possible to know just how many cases were notified *today* | 21:00 |
| LjL | which is the number we get for other countries generally | 21:00 |
| LjL | i guess you can look at "casos totales" and subtract yesterday's from today's | 21:00 |
| de-facto | "Casos diagnosticados el día previo": 3.715 is that the daily new cases from yesterday or cases found since yesterday? | 21:01 |
| LjL | which, sadly, gives 6671 | 21:01 |
| LjL | de-facto, it's the cases that were tested yesterday | 21:01 |
| LjL | if they were found before yesterday, but only notified today, those aren't included | 21:01 |
| LjL | so the real "today's total" as comparable to other countries is 6671 :\ | 21:01 |
| LjL | de-facto, "Casos diagnosticados el día previo" might be 0 every single day, if they never manage to notify cases within the same day as diagnosis | 21:02 |
| LjL | and yet they could have a ton of cases | 21:02 |
| de-facto | hmm well they only can publish the new cases of yesterday (because today is not summed up yet at publishing date) | 21:02 |
| LjL | i don't know what use is knowing the number of cases that were specifically tested within the past 24 hours | 21:03 |
| de-facto | so i guess those 3715 is the equivalent other countries publish too | 21:03 |
| LjL | except giving a lower number to media than 6671 | 21:03 |
| LjL | de-facto, no, no | 21:03 |
| LjL | what i'm saying is | 21:03 |
| LjL | take days 0, 1, 2 | 21:03 |
| LjL | on day 0 they register 10000 cases | 21:03 |
| LjL | but they don't notify them | 21:03 |
| LjL | on day 1 and 2 they register 0 cases | 21:03 |
| LjL | the result for "Casos diagnosticados el día previo" is 0, 0, 0 | 21:03 |
| de-facto | whut? | 21:04 |
| LjL | because the 10000 diagnosed on day 0 get notified on day 2 | 21:04 |
| LjL | and that's past the 24h window | 21:04 |
| LjL | if you sum "Casos diagnosticados el día previo" for every day ever, you get a much lower number than the actual total number of cases | 21:04 |
| LjL | they only count them if they were diagnosed *not before* 24h ago | 21:04 |
| LjL | if they were diagnosed before, they don't end up in "Casos diagnosticados el día previo" | 21:05 |
| de-facto | but why? that does not make any sense to me | 21:05 |
| LjL | they end up in the weekly totals, and they end up in the grand total | 21:05 |
| LjL | <LjL>30 except giving a lower number to media than 6671 | 21:05 |
| LjL | 3715 sounds a lot less bad than 6671 | 21:05 |
| de-facto | for me daily new cases is the time derivative of total cases | 21:05 |
| LjL | well not for them | 21:05 |
| LjL | it may be subtle but the description is clear after all | 21:06 |
| LjL | %tr <es Casos diagnosticados el día previo | 21:06 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Spanish to English: Cases diagnosed the day before (MyMemory, Google) — Cases diagnosed the previous day (Apertium) | 21:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Aruba: +91 cases (now 1296), +1 deaths (now 5) since a day ago — World: +1303 cases (now 22.5 million), +16 deaths (now 788505) since 23 minutes ago — Dominican Rep.: +1004 cases (now 88127), +12 deaths (now 1501) since 19 hours ago — US: +663 cases (now 5.7 million), +8 deaths (now 175694) since 23 minutes ago | 21:06 |
| LjL | it is not "Cases accumulated since yesterday", it's "Cases that were specifically diagnosed not before 24h ago" | 21:06 |
| de-facto | thats more than weird imho | 21:07 |
| LjL | if you subtract "Casos totales" in https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesionales/saludPublica/ccayes/alertasActual/nCov-China/documentos/Actualizacion_188_COVID-19.pdf from the number in https://www.mscbs.gob.es/profesionales/saludPublica/ccayes/alertasActual/nCov-China/documentos/Actualizacion_187_COVID-19.pdf you get 6671, which is also what https://www.rtve.es/noticias/20200819/curva-contagios-muertes-coronavirus-espana-dia-dia/2010514.shtml gives as "pero ha | 21:07 |
| LjL | sumado 6.671 contagios al balance total" | 21:07 |
| LjL | de-facto, it gives you a measure of how fast testing notification is, i guess | 21:07 |
| LjL | but i doubt that's the reason they provide that number | 21:08 |
| LjL | the ultimate reason must be to give the press a lower number | 21:08 |
| groto[m] | is a p100 filter sufficient for corona? | 21:09 |
| de-facto | yeah i did not notice that on first sight but stumbled above that wording there on searching for the correct column | 21:09 |
| groto[m] | * does a p100 mask block corona? | 21:09 |
| de-facto | what is a p100 mask? | 21:09 |
| groto[m] | ill get a picture | 21:10 |
| groto[m] | de-facto: "Half-face air-purifying respirator with combination P100 particulate filter (magenta) and organic vapor (black) cartridge" | 21:11 |
| groto[m] | de-facto: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NIOSH_air_filtration_rating | 21:11 |
| de-facto | it depends on the environment (e.g. probability and aerosol density to be expected), but i think something like FFP2 or FFP3 might suffice for most such environments to lower the infection probability to reasonable levels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FFP_standards | 21:12 |
| LjL | "sufficient" for what groto[m], i think no mask will stop you from getting COVID with 100% certainty | 21:12 |
| LjL | i think for most people, the type of masks is going to be less relevant than 1) the amount of air that gets in bypassing the masks's fit 2) the amount of touching the mask 3) the amount of just not wearing it | 21:12 |
| de-facto | yeah good points there | 21:13 |
| groto[m] | it seems to be equivalent to FFP3 mask | 21:13 |
| de-facto | afaik FFP3 is the first mentioning limited protection against virus/bacteria | 21:13 |
| de-facto | since its a filter its all a question of probabilities anyhow, hence depending on concentration | 21:14 |
| LjL | and is nowhere to be found on my amazon :P | 21:14 |
| LjL | FFP2s aren't found either except they may be labeled as such while really being KN95 | 21:14 |
| de-facto | pretty much like containment measures depending on local prevalence in a population | 21:14 |
| LjL | also it's still not ruled out that you may get it from your eyes | 21:15 |
| LjL | which a mask does nothing about | 21:15 |
| groto[m] | on the 3m brand package for a p100 mask/ffp3, it says that it protects against influenza but it does how much protect or list any studies | 21:15 |
| groto[m] | * on the 3m brand package for a p100 mask/ffp3, it says that it protects against influenza but it now say how much protection or list any studies | 21:16 |
| de-facto | yes but also keep in mind its always a compromise: filter performance is bought at the cost of air resistance per filter area | 21:16 |
| LjL | groto[m], a better question than an unanswerable "does it catch every virus particle" is like, does it provide a good fit, is it breathable or does it become wet and you're forced to take it off after ten minutes | 21:16 |
| groto[m] | fair points | 21:17 |
| groto[m] | is it true that cloth masks do not protect the wearer at all? | 21:17 |
| LjL | i don't think there's any properly backed up claim for that | 21:20 |
| de-facto | cotton community masks do protect, but less than surgical masks, FFP2/(K)N95, FFP3/P100 and full masks with filter unit or even gas tank with over pressurized plastic suit | 21:20 |
| groto[m] | found something, wiki on dust filter type masks; | 21:20 |
| groto[m] | "Some N95 respirators have also been cleared by the U.S. National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) and U.S. Food and Drug Administration as surgical and are labeled "Surgical N95", "medical respirators," or "healthcare respirators," providing respiratory protection to the wearer as well.[15][16] | 21:20 |
| groto[m] | The CDC recommends the use of respirators with at least N95 certification to protect the wearer from inhalation of infectious particles including Mycobacterium tuberculosis, avian influenza, severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS), pandemic influenza, and Ebola.[17] " | 21:20 |
| groto[m] | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Respirator | 21:20 |
| LjL | yes N95/FFP2 is what everyone is recommending as reasonable minimum for wearer protection | 21:21 |
| de-facto | btw curious about if smoke particles or vaping would be able to act as transport vehicles for SARS-CoV-2 virions | 21:21 |
| LjL | doesn't mean they protect fully, and doesn't mean lesser form of protection do nothing, either | 21:21 |
| groto[m] | i hear a lot of social media posts saying "that cloth masks do not protect the wearer", never from good sources. | 21:21 |
| de-facto | i read its being discussed in Spain right now if they want to disallow smoking in public places | 21:21 |
| LjL | de-facto, while i don't know that, i try to stay away from smokers. there *is* that Bergamo study that looked at PM2.5 from pollution, and found viral RNA on it | 21:22 |
| de-facto | yeah me too, better safe than sorry | 21:22 |
| LjL | groto[m], good sources don't really know, although there are a couple of not-great studies that show some proection. but "cloth" is a lot of things. | 21:22 |
| LjL | N95 masks or FFP2 masks or what-have-you are made to a standard. people's cloth masks are not. | 21:22 |
| de-facto | careful with N95 standard, i read many Chinese manufacturers switched from producing phones to producing masks, i doubt all of them are controlled that well, afaik 50% are below spec | 21:23 |
| LjL | yes :\ | 21:24 |
| de-facto | %title https://smartairfilters.com/en/blog/half-chinese-n95-face-mask-fail-standards-unreliable/ | 21:24 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From smartairfilters.com: - Smart Air | 21:24 |
| LjL | but what i'm saying is just that studies cannot easily "certify" cloth masks, because cloth could mean a number of different things, a virtually infinite combination of characteristics | 21:25 |
| de-facto | yes indeed | 21:25 |
| groto[m] | Wow avian influenza virus subtype H5N1 and covid19 only share the same kingdom. They are different Phylums. | 21:26 |
| LjL | de-facto, that warning holds true for FFP2 masks too, by the way, since many chinese KN95 are being sold "as" FFP2 (not sure how legally, but maybe legally) | 21:27 |
| groto[m] | covid19 is as similar said avian flu as humans are to ants wow | 21:27 |
| LjL | why did you think it was similar | 21:27 |
| LjL | we've been trying to stress left and right that this is nothing like influenza | 21:27 |
| de-facto | many just print it on them because noone can control it right now | 21:28 |
| LjL | but i guess the "it's just a flu" folks manage to get part of the message across even to people who don't believe them...? | 21:28 |
| groto[m] | social media is all like 'just a flu', so i thought it was at least a strong sub type of flu | 21:28 |
| LjL | de-facto, i've tried to buy some on amazon but after looking at the reviews, there is *nothing* that's really going to be a true FFP2 or nevermind FFP3 | 21:28 |
| LjL | groto[m], no, it's a coronavirus. it's related to SARS and to MERS, unrelated to flu | 21:28 |
| LjL | well, except for being a virus | 21:29 |
| LjL | social media bullshit isn't just partial lies, it's complete lies | 21:29 |
| de-facto | hence the importance to choose a manufacturer which already was active on this field prior to the pandemic and got a reputation to loose | 21:29 |
| groto[m] | yea same kingdom literally nothing else | 21:29 |
| LjL | groto[m], https://covid19.specops.network/#questions | 21:29 |
| groto[m] | *dreams of being able to show ppl that if covid19 is an influenza, then ppl are the species ants | 21:30 |
| LjL | de-facto, well if only i had known beforehand, i'd have written down a list of amazon sellers ;( | 21:30 |
| groto[m] | american 3m sells FFP3 equivalents. amazon.com | 21:31 |
| de-facto | they are shortlived and appear like mushrooms, one gets busted ten new appear | 21:31 |
| LjL | groto[m], i can't buy from amazon.com | 21:31 |
| LjL | i need to buy from an EU amazon | 21:31 |
| LjL | i could buy N95 if i could buy from 3M, i'm not fixated on FFP2 | 21:31 |
| LjL | N95 and FFP2 are basically equivalent (if not fake) | 21:32 |
| groto[m] | hmm | 21:32 |
| LjL | iirc i found something that looked semi-legit on amazon.de, but sure enough, it had a red "This item doesn't ship to Italy" notice | 21:34 |
| de-facto | pro tip: dont buy on amazon... | 21:34 |
| de-facto | its where all those Chinese manufacturers register right now | 21:35 |
| groto[m] | the fact that ppl call SARS-CoV-2 'coronavirus' sounds problematic? if we get a SARS-CoV-3 (SARS-CoV-1 is sars 2003), ppl might think it's still SARS-CoV-2 | 21:35 |
| de-facto | search for a professional store selling working clothing | 21:35 |
| groto[m] | is covid03 a term? | 21:36 |
| de-facto | afaik there are at least 7 corona viruses 229E, NL63, OC43, HKU1 and their bad brothers SARS, MERS and SARS-2 known to infect humans | 21:39 |
| groto[m] | sars-1 and covid19 are both 'Betacoronaviruses', same genus. Sars-1 and covid19 more in common than we do with chimpanzees. sars1 and cov19 are equivalent to homo sapiens and neanderthal | 21:40 |
| IndoAnon | ugh, it's 2019-nCoV | 21:40 |
| IndoAnon | 新型コロナ | 21:41 |
| groto[m] | mers is a 'betacoronavirus' too. | 21:41 |
| groto[m] | why is mers not = sars-2 and covid19 = sars-3? | 21:41 |
| IndoAnon | because WHO ploy with naming | 21:42 |
| groto[m] | IndoAnon: SARS-CoV-2 on wiki = 2019-nCoV | 21:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: 'Humbled' Boeing scores first new 737 Max orders since November: Boeing's cancellations have far outpaced orders of new aircraft this year as the pandemic hurts already weak demand. → https://is.gd/NbywBv | 21:43 |
| groto[m] | so it's basically destiny that we'll get a fourth betacoronav. Can we give it somethign that rolls off the tongue and is scientific? nsa if you're listening, make it happen | 21:43 |
| IndoAnon | buddy, why would you think there's EBOLA, Spanish flu, japanese encephalitis, Marburg disease, legioner disease, hong kong flu, zika, etc... but not wuhan pneumonia? | 21:45 |
| groto[m] | i think that japanese vice said it well, rename WHO to ChineseHO | 21:45 |
| groto[m] | well technically it shouldn't be called wuhan pnemonia since pneumonia is a bacteria :p | 21:46 |
| groto[m] | even mers has a 'better' name: 'Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS), also known as camel flu' | 21:48 |
| IndoAnon | viral pneumonia, groto[m] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viral_pneumonia | 21:48 |
| groto[m] | IndoAnon: rip me lol | 21:48 |
| groto[m] | what r they saying in the vid? | 21:49 |
| groto[m] | pneumonia, "less common causes are fungi and parasites" wow | 21:50 |
| IndoAnon | https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/blob/0bc2e2e50ef46b1852ca5e4197d4a94b4019dbfe/speeches/Italian-Civil-Protection/2020-04-15.txt#L87-L89 | 21:50 |
| eidetic | why is Boeing's death planes in CNBC 'health'? | 21:50 |
| de-facto | basically Coronaviridae and Bats coevolved so there are thousands more in that natural reservoir, yet its unclear how many of those got pathogenic potential in humans afaik | 21:50 |
| IndoAnon | RIP minks | 21:50 |
| eidetic | oh 'pandemic hurts' economy makes it 'health' ....sigh | 21:51 |
| groto[m] | de-facto: does anyone have a theory about how it maybe went bats - pangolan - humans? | 21:51 |
| de-facto | SARS-1? | 21:51 |
| eidetic | who cares what its called | 21:52 |
| groto[m] | sars-1 is sars-cov-1, aka coronavirus from 2003 | 21:52 |
| groto[m] | sars-1 isn't a real term, my finger hurts so typing less | 21:53 |
| IndoAnon | groto[m]: http://archive.is/ZQKnJ | 21:53 |
| de-facto | afaik the natural reservoir are bats, but then civet cat/pangolin/dromedary camels/whatever are intermediate hosts, e.g. got at some point contaminated from bats excrements/bites/whatever and then it jumped over to humans, possibly on those wildlife markets etc | 21:54 |
| groto[m] | <eidetic "who cares what its called "> raises hand. indoanon too :p | 21:54 |
| de-facto | but thats all not strictly known i guess | 21:54 |
| eidetic | groto[m]: ya obviously important to the QAnons | 21:54 |
| groto[m] | de-facto: any thoeries on how long it 'incubated' in pangolins before jumping to humans | 21:55 |
| groto[m] | eidetic: qanon, talk about a name that suxs too | 21:55 |
| de-facto | afaik for SARS its said to have been intermediate host Civet Cat, for MERS the Dromedary Camels, and for SARS-2 its not clear yet possibly pangolins or also fur farm animals like minks or ferrets or such? | 21:56 |
| IndoAnon | groto[m]: no definite proof | 21:56 |
| IndoAnon | because they sterilized the seafood market | 21:57 |
| de-facto | well the phylogenetic tree spreads on every mutation, and there is a natural rate for mutations (hence average amount of mutations over time), so by comparison of two sequences of RNA (e.g. different strains) there can be made estimates since how long those were divided on the phylogenetic tree | 21:58 |
| groto[m] | IndoAnon: "COVID-19 first appeared in a group of Chinese miners in 2012, scientists say " wow, sure no way | 21:58 |
| eidetic | basic virology, why any surprise, Virii have reservoirs | 21:58 |
| IndoAnon | including BSL-4 lab eidetic | 21:58 |
| eidetic | planet is a giant soup of all types of Virii | 21:58 |
| eidetic | IndoAnon: yes, well, bit like Russian agitprop, whom will ever really know | 21:59 |
| groto[m] | IndoAnon: wiki makes no mention of sars-2 in 2012, so it must be some up and coming reseacrh still | 22:00 |
| de-facto | that is assumed mutation rates are known in the natural host and dont change much as well as probably selective pressure optimizing to a specific epigenetic environment such as binding strength to a specific receptor of the (intermediate) host or the immune pressure or such | 22:00 |
| eidetic | if you want to spend all day, playing detective on the internet, ok | 22:00 |
| IndoAnon | 10.3389/fvets.2020.00457 | 22:00 |
| groto[m] | de-facto: hmm okay so it sounds like it wasn't like a pangolins get sars-2 then 1 mo later humans too | 22:01 |
| LjL | why does paracetamol make me sleepy? | 22:02 |
| de-facto | probably not, if it was highly optimized to pangolin cells or immune system it could be speculated to have spend there quite a significant time undergoing mutations, but if it would just have been a few months or such i doubt there would be a major effect from selection visible | 22:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Coronavirus live updates: CDC to monitor sewage systems for virus; schools likely years from return to 'normal' → https://is.gd/BXKfiL | 22:02 |
| IndoAnon | groto[m]: I don't know how you're able to get to here... Unfortunately, you have to read substantial amount of 200k+75k IRC messages or archive of ~4615*300 posts to get enough knowledge base... i would recommend pastebins though | 22:04 |
| de-facto | but if its a massive pandemic maybe "parallel bruteforcing" for optimizing mutations may make occurrence of a strain with advantages more probable? idk like D614G for SARS-CoV-2? | 22:05 |
| de-facto | but tbh idk im not a virologist or such | 22:06 |
| groto[m] | de-facto: sounds like that mean that to detect sars-cov-3, we could detect it first in farm animals in advance | 22:07 |
| IndoAnon | de-facto: me too... However, we knew that something could be pushed to do something that human wants | 22:07 |
| IndoAnon | Long before mendel, human forced ancestor of banana into banana today | 22:07 |
| de-facto | you mean like "smart breeding" kind of effort? | 22:08 |
| de-facto | probably then RNA/DNA would not show traces of artificial influence and just look like the product of natural selection | 22:09 |
| IndoAnon | de-facto: there's already term for that, it's eugenics | 22:09 |
| groto[m] | IndoAnon: smart breeding of sars-2? what purpose? | 22:10 |
| de-facto | idk thats almost going too far with speculation for my taste | 22:12 |
| IndoAnon | groto[m]: to gain advantageous traits? hey, i'm limiting my vocabulary to 10th grader biology level | 22:12 |
| groto[m] | IndoAnon: the nypost article did not mention whether the virus was dna tested for - it could have been another breed of corona that caused those miners to become ill | 22:13 |
| groto[m] | "In May 2019, 14 cases of MERS were reported to the World Health Organisation (WHO) by Saudi authorities, of which five were fatal" | 22:17 |
| de-facto | he wrote "sars-1 = 2003 ; mers = 2012 ; sars2 = 2019; => 1 new corona every 8 yrs" | 22:18 |
| groto[m] | de-facto: is my formating not working? | 22:18 |
| de-facto | it was like "groto[m] sent a long message: ...URL..." | 22:18 |
| de-facto | probably because of newlines | 22:19 |
| groto[m] | oh ty, i'm using matrix | 22:19 |
| groto[m] | aka element.io | 22:19 |
| de-facto | but yeah, yet N=3 is not really statistically significant to claim such a periodicity, it looks like it, but it does not confirm it (yet) | 22:19 |
| groto[m] | if we're lucky, hopefully N will nvr be statisticaly sig | 22:20 |
| de-facto | indeed | 22:20 |
| IndoAnon | groto[m]: you need characterize the virus | 22:22 |
| de-facto | which makes me wonder about the occurrence date of the other four CoVs, but am too lazy right now to google them | 22:22 |
| groto[m] | de-facto: other four covs? | 22:23 |
| IndoAnon | MERS is basically occupational risk, because it's capability to infect the upper respiratory tract is rather limited | 22:23 |
| groto[m] | IndoAnon: im a newb so don't ask me to characterize hhah | 22:24 |
| de-facto | 229E, NL63, OC43, HKU1 | 22:24 |
| IndoAnon | again, you should read stuff https://pastebin.com/raw/qy5RFpVX https://pastebin.com/raw/fqdFu7Qi https://pastebin.com/2YjudGAG https://pastebin.com/2fFs3ETV https://pastebin.com/PHZ1y0rG | 22:25 |
| IndoAnon | https://pastebin.com/fqdFu7Qi https://pastebin.com/raw/e0mqY7yz | 22:26 |
| IndoAnon | ayy, there's duplicate lol. Well, my advice is, try to dig topic that's relevant to you | 22:27 |
| de-facto | quick glance at wikipedia shows HCoV-229E discovered in 1965; NL63 discovered in 2004; HCoV-OC43 most divergent genotypes have common ancestor in 1950s; HCoV-HKU1 discovered in 2005 | 22:30 |
| groto[m] | IndoAnon: ty, since you know more about this than many, update wikipedia? | 22:30 |
| de-facto | if i did read it correctly, just were skipping over the text | 22:30 |
| de-facto | discovering dates dont mean first occurance in humans though, because if they just cause "common cold" and nothing more severe they just could have went under the radar for long times | 22:31 |
| IndoAnon | groto[m]: Wikipedia? you mean one that deprecated a line from Spanish Flu intro and mortality section because WHO declared the numbers inaccurate? | 22:32 |
| IndoAnon | You may gain something from wikipedia. However, the edit war is observable phenomenon... | 22:34 |
| groto[m] | IndoAnon: if your data is better, ppl SHOULDNT remove it from wiki, but alas | 22:34 |
| groto[m] | https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7196694/ | 22:35 |
| groto[m] | p100 and n95 block 99.97 of aerosolized random virus | 22:35 |
| de-facto | btw if you really take it serious with masks you also need to shave any beard if you happen to have one | 22:38 |
| de-facto | otherwise you cant get a mask airtight on your face | 22:38 |
| groto[m] | de-facto: 229E, NL63 isn't a betacoronavirus. | 22:38 |
| groto[m] | OC43, HKU1 is. | 22:38 |
| groto[m] | interesting tho | 22:38 |
| de-facto | yep | 22:39 |
| IndoAnon | 10.1038/nm.3985 10.1007/s00259-020-04734-w doi:10.1128/JVI.00127-20 10.1007/s40520-020-01570-8 10.1016/j.bbi.2020.04.024 10.1016/j.antiviral.2018.09.010 10.1016/j.antiviral.2020.104787 10.1016/j.jmb.2020.04.009 | 22:39 |
| groto[m] | de-facto: not all beards, moustaches. | 22:39 |
| groto[m] | hashtag, noshavenovember | 22:40 |
| de-facto | yeah those who would be at the "lip" of such masks of course | 22:40 |
| de-facto | IndoAnon, those are too compact, use proper urls | 22:42 |
| groto[m] | yea bettr urls would be nce | 22:42 |
| groto[m] | MERS-CoV is a term | 22:43 |
| IndoAnon | with neurodamage confirmed, it resembles rabies more... than when compared to HIV... de-facto didn't you said IRC is limited to 512 bytes? | 22:43 |
| de-facto | yes but one doi url probably is less than 512b | 22:43 |
| de-facto | 512B | 22:43 |
| groto[m] | "The betacoronaviruses of the greatest clinical importance concerning humans are OC43 and HKU1 (which can cause the common cold) of lineage A, SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV-2 (which causes the disease COVID-19) of lineage B,[2] and MERS-CoV of lineage C" | 22:43 |
| IndoAnon | https://sci-hub.tw/ is still up anw | 22:44 |
| de-facto | indeed | 22:44 |
| groto[m] | de-facto: no vaccine for the mundane 4 coronavirus/Coronaviridae huh? | 22:45 |
| IndoAnon | Either sci-hub, ol medrxiv... simple right? https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.15.20175794v1 https://www.medxriv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.09.20143339v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.16.20128660v2 | 22:46 |
| IndoAnon | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.08.14.20173393v1 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.26.20080911v2.full.pdf https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.29.20164293v1 | 22:47 |
| IndoAnon | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.17.20133504v1 We identify that the virus can remain stable within water for up to 25 days, and country specific relative risk of infection posed by faecal contaminated water is related to the environment. Faecal contaminated rivers, waterways and water systems within countries with high infection rates can provide infectious doses | 22:50 |
| groto[m] | aerosol - water drops. | 22:50 |
| groto[m] | airborne - uhh virus free floating in the air. | 22:50 |
| groto[m] | right? | 22:50 |
| groto[m] | IndoAnon: huh explains how seals can catch influenza | 22:51 |
| ThxGiving | I am thinking about a connection between a zn2+ deficiency within the cell plasma and the loss of smell and taste.. which might be a side effect of virus rna replication which happens uncontrolled within the cell and depletes a zn2+ ion in its enzyme. | 22:51 |
| IndoAnon | groto[m]: this virus can survive as a fomite for days... It can infect you when the droplet evaporated | 22:51 |
| ThxGiving | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_deficiency (look at vision & smell) | 22:52 |
| IndoAnon | ThxGiving: it's related to neurodamage... But not related to ion... More like, it cause neurotransmitter imbalances, mimicking MAO-B, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monoamine_oxidase_B | 22:53 |
| de-facto | ThxGiving, i thought SARS-CoV-2 was believed to be able to infect the olfactory epithelium if i remember correctly (not sure) | 22:54 |
| ThxGiving | By depleting the zinc level the cell also notices that its infected by a virus and starts countermeasures (reading some special dna producing interferons) | 22:54 |
| ThxGiving | Okay | 22:55 |
| groto[m] | ThxGiving: wow thats a good pt! | 22:55 |
| de-facto | ThxGiving, but yeah zinc really does seem to play a role, also for immune system | 22:56 |
| IndoAnon | I could agree on that... Zinc provide ionosphere protection, right? | 22:57 |
| de-facto | so maybe colinear effects? e.g. not excluding each others? not sure what the main impact would be though | 22:57 |
| groto[m] | ok, nvm about it being a good pt :p | 22:57 |
| de-facto | idk about the exact mechanisms but there are a lot of publications about it in relation with COVID-19 | 23:00 |
| IndoAnon | try reading the pastebins... condensing all the info into one Wikipedia page is near impossible | 23:00 |
| IndoAnon | https://archive.is/CAlEK < 24 march, when they publicize about loss of taste/smell as a symptom | 23:03 |
| IndoAnon | https://archive.is/55OQq translated from https://www.corriere.it/salute/malattie_infettive/20_aprile_24/studio-italiano-coronavirus-trasportato-particolato-atmosferico-ed27ba0e-8619-11ea-9ac6-16666bda3d31.shtml LjL the translation is quite good, right? | 23:05 |
| LjL | IndoAnon, probably, but just read the study in english :P https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0013935120306472?via%3Dihub | 23:08 |
| ThxGiving | There is definetly something https://journals.plos.org/plospathogens/article?id=10.1371/journal.ppat.1001176 | 23:08 |
| ThxGiving | 2010 | 23:08 |
| IndoAnon | LjL: EBIN :DDDD gotta tell pastebin maintainer to upd8 if they haven't | 23:10 |
| IndoAnon | wait, i thought it's related to dust particulate... hmm, gotta check | 23:12 |
| IndoAnon | i copied the wrong url, tee hee | 23:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network *: ljl-covid: Add Bergamo PM10 study → https://is.gd/AGs3Cd | 23:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: BCG vaccine that has been in use for almost a century limits the spread and severity of coronavirus, Israeli biologists claim → https://is.gd/VDdZ5z | 23:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Coronavirus live updates: Universities scramble to respond to outbreak, schools likely years away from 'normal' → https://is.gd/BXKfiL | 23:48 |
| bree33 | YEARS | 23:49 |
| bree33 | >At least one vaccine is expected in the first half of next year, though scientists say it won’t be a “magical cure.” | 23:50 |
| bree33 | why not? | 23:50 |
| bree33 | assuming we can produce and distribute enough of an effective vaccine, why doesnt that solve this? | 23:51 |
| bree33 | ok, im gathering that that first vaccine is expected to not be very effective | 23:55 |
| IndoAnon | Hadassah, the Israeli-Russian vaccine, bree33 ? | 23:57 |
| IndoAnon | *sputnik V, developed by Hadassah | 23:58 |
| bree33 | from Moderna? | 23:58 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!