| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Nearly 11,000 people have been exposed to the coronavirus on flights, the CDC says (10124 votes) | https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/nearly-11000-people-have-been-exposed-to-the-coronavirus-on-flights-the-cdc-says/2020/09/19/d609adbc-ed27-11ea-99a1-71343d03bc29_story.html | https://redd.it/iwd6fr | 00:13 |
|---|---|---|
| ryouma | what's the rate? | 00:35 |
| LjL | or... maybe i can't read it | 00:38 |
| LjL | groan | 00:39 |
| LjL | has me to through GDPR consent, some other dialog, shows me the article... only to then cover it with "actually you must subscribe" dialog | 00:39 |
| LjL | get fucked NYT | 00:39 |
| LjL | wait, Washington Post | 00:39 |
| LjL | same difference | 00:39 |
| ryouma | on my system wapo frequently shows its tagline "democracy dies in darkness" and then a completely black page | 00:41 |
| bin_bash | i wonder if it's your color settings | 00:52 |
| LjL | websites are terrible | 00:57 |
| LjL | we need to go back to Gopher | 00:58 |
| ryouma | it is possibly my attempts at getting firefox to be tolerable at night, possibly lack of js | 01:42 |
| ryouma | but the web really is terrible. and browsers too. | 01:42 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +94193 cases (now 31.3 million), +1367 deaths (now 966127) since 6 hours ago — India: +35710 cases (now 5.5 million), +597 deaths (now 87909) since 6 hours ago — Montenegro: +714 cases (now 8612), +2 deaths (now 136) since a day ago — US: +15080 cases (now 7.0 million), +109 deaths (now 204115) since 6 hours ago | 01:52 |
| Jigsy | %cases UK | 02:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Guyana: +101 cases (now 2269) since a day ago — World: +169 cases (now 31.3 million) since 18 minutes ago — Eswatini: +24 cases (now 5269) since a day ago — Suriname: +14 cases (now 4723) since 23 hours ago | 02:05 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In United Kingdom, there have been 394257 confirmed cases (0.6% of the population) and 45712 deaths (11.6% of cases) as of 7 hours ago. 21.4 million tests were performed (1.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 02:05 |
| dTal | ryouma: that's profound | 02:24 |
| dTal | you should take a screenshot of that and... something | 02:24 |
| snake | %cases pa | 02:25 |
| Brainstorm | snake: In Pennsylvania, US, there have been 154236 confirmed cases (1.2% of the population) and 7940 deaths (5.1% of cases) as of 18 hours ago. 1.4 million tests were performed (10.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data. | 02:25 |
| snake | Jigsy, you have half the cases we have in PA by percentage, and yet you also have 5 times the number of deaths. | 02:27 |
| Jigsy | snake: What can I say? The UK sucks. | 02:27 |
| snake | now i feel bad | 02:28 |
| snake | you just acknowledged that so quickly lol | 02:28 |
| Jigsy | What? It's not like it's a secret or anything. | 02:29 |
| snake | im sorry man, sorry you live in a shithole country | 02:31 |
| Jigsy | Thanks. | 02:31 |
| LjL | snake, half the *confirmed* cases | 02:33 |
| LjL | anyway if this is a competition on what's the shittier country between the US and the UK | 02:33 |
| LjL | as the channel's official referee, i declare you even | 02:33 |
| snake | fair! | 02:33 |
| LjL | despite attempts to do otherwise, the US overall *is* testing a fair amount | 02:34 |
| LjL | much less than needed, because having a 7% rate of positives (11% in PA) is too much, but... i'm afraid that just means you really have a lot of cases | 02:35 |
| LjL | %casees UK | 02:35 |
| LjL | %cases UK | 02:35 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In United Kingdom, there have been 394257 confirmed cases (0.6% of the population) and 45712 deaths (11.6% of cases) as of 8 hours ago. 21.4 million tests were performed (1.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 02:35 |
| LjL | the other thing, since the figures here don't really seem to back the idea that the UK has so many more cases, is age | 02:36 |
| LjL | in Italy we currently have a median age of 35 or so (well, last i checked), and at some point it went down to 29 | 02:36 |
| LjL | and unsurprisingly, for now we aren't having very many deaths | 02:36 |
| LjL | but during the first wave, the median age was over 60, and just as unsurprisingly, we *did* have very many deaths | 02:37 |
| LjL | (i'm afraid the median age is poised to go up again, after people are back from holidays and see their families again) | 02:37 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: The Anti-histamine Azelastine, Identified by Computational Drug Repurposing, Inhibits SARS-CoV-2 Infection in Reconstituted Human Nasal Tissue In Vitro (80 votes) | https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.15.296228v1 | https://redd.it/iwj8in | 02:38 |
| snake | LjL, my dad said the governor ordered some old people with covid go back into a nursing home, and then they spread it around there | 02:44 |
| snake | but i dont know why they were out of the nursing home | 02:44 |
| LjL | snake, well probably because they were in some COVID ward of a regular hospital? | 02:45 |
| snake | maybe | 02:47 |
| LjL | bot isn't posting for some reason, but https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/ba0518f1282067558da74b4d1cbba4631d06cc98 this should be interesting for people with a clue, like, not me, but maybe de-facto and others | 02:49 |
| ryouma | with long covid, deaths are not hte only criteron --- 17:28 <snake> now i feel bad | 02:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +4433 cases (now 31.3 million), +27 deaths (now 966154) since an hour ago — US: +3872 cases (now 7.0 million), +3 deaths (now 204118) since an hour ago — Curacao: +21 cases (now 268) since a day ago — Paraguay: +505 cases (now 33520), +23 deaths (now 659) since a day ago | 03:07 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Bill Gates says it’s ‘outrageous’ that Americans still can’t get coronavirus test results in 24 hours (10325 votes) | https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/20/bill-gates-its-outrageous-americans-cant-get-coronavirus-test-results-in-24-hours.html | https://redd.it/iwixfi | 03:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Tunisia: +996 cases (now 10732), +4 deaths (now 159) since 20 hours ago — World: +4843 cases (now 31.3 million), +274 deaths (now 966428) since 49 minutes ago — Mexico: +3542 cases (now 697663), +235 deaths (now 73493) since 22 hours ago — France: +2392 cases (now 460439) since 2 hours ago | 03:52 |
| de-facto | nice link | 04:12 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Association of Daily Wear of Eyeglasses With Susceptibility to COVID-19 Infection (80 votes) | https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullarticle/2770872 | https://redd.it/iwr2kg | 05:27 |
| ryouma | median age in italy is due to travel or to deaths or what? | 05:35 |
| ryouma | those are enormous jumps | 05:35 |
| ryouma | median is not supposed to change so quickly | 05:35 |
| LjL | ryouma, travel, aiui | 05:35 |
| LjL | some weeks ago about 2/3 of the new cases tested positive in airports | 05:36 |
| LjL | probably less now | 05:36 |
| ryouma | ok | 05:37 |
| ryouma | note the last one is REVERSE association | 05:37 |
| ryouma | glasses | 05:37 |
| ryouma | i.e. glasses might be useful | 05:37 |
| ryouma | "rmy ants will sometimes walk in circles until they die. The workers navigate by smelling the pheromone trails of workers in front of them, while laying down pheromones for others to follow. If these trails accidentally loop back on themselves, the ants are trapped. They become a thick, swirling vortex of bodies that resembles a hurricane as viewed from space. They march endlessly until they’re felled by exhaustio | 05:39 |
| ryouma | n or dehydration. The ants can sense no picture bigger than what’s immediately ahead. They have no coordinating force to guide them to safety. They are imprisoned by a wall of their own instincts. This phenomenon is called the death spiral. I can think of no better metaphor for the United States of America’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic." | 05:39 |
| mirrorbird | humans are like that | 05:40 |
| LjL | bit of a small study, when you consider 16 people were wearing glasses | 05:49 |
| LjL | but interesting nonetheless | 05:49 |
| ryouma | yeah that is tiny | 05:52 |
| ryouma | i could not get text | 05:52 |
| mirrorbird | %cases cambodia | 06:03 |
| Brainstorm | mirrorbird: In Cambodia, there have been 275 confirmed cases (0.0% of the population) and 0 deaths (0.0% of cases) as of 8 days ago. 122693 tests were performed (0.2% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Cambodia for time series data. | 06:03 |
| mirrorbird | %cases vietnam | 06:04 |
| Brainstorm | mirrorbird: In Vietnam, there have been 1068 confirmed cases (0.0% of the population) and 35 deaths (3.3% of cases) as of 2 days ago. 1.0 million tests were performed (0.1% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Vietnam for time series data. | 06:04 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ontario, Canada: +633 cases (now 48950) since a day ago — World: +16965 cases (now 31.3 million), +100 deaths (now 966528) since 3 hours ago — Peru: +6030 cases (now 768895) since a day ago — Ukraine: +3071 cases (now 180119), +41 deaths (now 3626) since a day ago | 07:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Wisconsin, US: +3948 cases (now 101227), +4 deaths (now 1242) since 2 days ago — Minnesota, US: +1296 cases (now 90017), +2 deaths (now 2017) since a day ago — Oregon, US: +459 cases (now 30801), +5 deaths (now 526) since 2 days ago — Maharashtra, India: +20519 cases (now 1.2 million), +425 deaths (now 32216) since a day ago | 07:53 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Wisconsin, US: +6065 cases (now 107292) since 3 hours ago — World: +11696 cases (now 31.4 million), +105 deaths (now 966635) since 3 hours ago — Russia: +6196 cases (now 1.1 million), +71 deaths (now 19489) since 23 hours ago — Philippines: +3447 cases (now 290190), +15 deaths (now 4999) since 22 hours ago | 10:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Indonesia: +4176 cases (now 248852), +124 deaths (now 9677) since 23 hours ago — World: +4232 cases (now 31.4 million), +124 deaths (now 966759) since 35 minutes ago — Slovenia: +50 cases (now 4470) since 23 hours ago — Hong Kong: +6 cases (now 5039) since 23 hours ago | 11:09 |
| Jigsy | %cases UK | 12:04 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In United Kingdom, there have been 395501 confirmed cases (0.6% of the population) and 45712 deaths (11.6% of cases) as of 4 hours ago. 21.4 million tests were performed (1.9% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 12:04 |
| genevino | %cases germany | 13:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Iran: +3341 cases (now 425481), +177 deaths (now 24478) since a day ago — World: +13834 cases (now 31.4 million), +305 deaths (now 967064) since 2 hours ago — France: +5587 cases (now 466026), +12 deaths (now 31388) since 9 hours ago — India: +3830 cases (now 5.5 million), +24 deaths (now 87933) since 6 hours ago | 13:21 |
| Brainstorm | genevino: In Germany, there have been 273965 confirmed cases (0.3% of the population) and 9471 deaths (3.5% of cases) as of 4 minutes ago. 14.6 million tests were performed (1.9% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.6% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 3.7% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 13:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +1095 cases (now 50378), +3 deaths (now 2048) since 2 days ago — World: +1791 cases (now 31.4 million), +7 deaths (now 967071) since 37 minutes ago — US: +696 cases (now 7.0 million), +4 deaths (now 204122) since 37 minutes ago | 13:54 |
| mirrorbird | %cases denmark | 14:30 |
| Brainstorm | mirrorbird: In Denmark, there have been 23323 confirmed cases (0.4% of the population) and 640 deaths (2.7% of cases) as of 11 minutes ago. 3.4 million tests were performed (0.7% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.6% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 3.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Denmark for time series data. | 14:30 |
| mirrorbird | %cases finland | 14:30 |
| Brainstorm | mirrorbird: In Finland, there have been 9046 confirmed cases (0.2% of the population) and 339 deaths (3.7% of cases) as of an hour ago. 891180 tests were performed (1.0% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.6% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 4.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Finland for time series data. | 14:30 |
| mirrorbird | %cases norway | 14:30 |
| Brainstorm | mirrorbird: In Norway, there have been 12897 confirmed cases (0.2% of the population) and 267 deaths (2.1% of cases) as of 12 hours ago. 940722 tests were performed (1.4% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.4% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Norway for time series data. | 14:30 |
| mirrorbird | %cases sweden | 14:30 |
| Brainstorm | mirrorbird: In Sweden, there have been 88237 confirmed cases (0.9% of the population) and 5865 deaths (6.6% of cases) as of 2 days ago. 1.4 million tests were performed (6.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Sweden for time series data. | 14:31 |
| mirrorbird | nice | 14:31 |
| AndreasKunstmann | https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/09/21/pers-s21.html | 14:31 |
| yuta | %cases japan | 14:36 |
| Brainstorm | yuta: In Japan, there have been 79142 confirmed cases (0.1% of the population) and 1508 deaths (1.9% of cases) as of 7 hours ago. 2.2 million tests were performed (3.5% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Japan for time series data. | 14:36 |
| yuta | %cases croatia | 14:39 |
| Brainstorm | yuta: In Croatia, there have been 14992 confirmed cases (0.4% of the population) and 253 deaths (1.7% of cases) as of 3 hours ago. 262132 tests were performed (5.7% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.1% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 1.9% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Croatia for time series data. | 14:39 |
| mirrorbird | wow. sweden is so bad | 14:56 |
| metro | they don't seem to think so | 15:11 |
| darsie | mirrorbird: Doesn't look so bad reative to Austria etc. | 15:13 |
| darsie | We switched roles. | 15:13 |
| metro | their top doc is coming out saying they are content with their approach | 15:15 |
| metro | far from the apocalyptic many were predicting for them | 15:15 |
| metro | basically any government who forced a lockdown has a vested interest in ignoring the Swedish model | 15:16 |
| mirrorbird | %cases austria | 15:41 |
| Brainstorm | mirrorbird: In Austria, there have been 38658 confirmed cases (0.4% of the population) and 767 deaths (2.0% of cases) as of 4 hours ago. 1.5 million tests were performed (2.7% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.3% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Austria for time series data. | 15:41 |
| mirrorbird | 767 eaths is nothing for austria | 15:41 |
| mirrorbird | austria and sweden have almost the same pop | 15:42 |
| Haley[m] | Depends always who it touches. I would have some addresses+names in case. | 15:42 |
| mirrorbird | Haley[m], ? | 15:42 |
| Haley[m] | "767 eaths is nothing for austria" | 15:42 |
| mirrorbird | compared to 5000 in sweden, which has the same population | 15:54 |
| Haley[m] | yep. | 15:55 |
| metro | well maybe they're not perfect >.> | 15:56 |
| metro | %cases sweden | 15:56 |
| Brainstorm | metro: In Sweden, there have been 88237 confirmed cases (0.9% of the population) and 5865 deaths (6.6% of cases) as of 2 days ago. 1.4 million tests were performed (6.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Sweden for time series data. | 15:56 |
| metro | I do remember reporting about how badly impacted their elderly care facilities became | 15:57 |
| mirrorbird | they're trying to save money | 16:05 |
| mirrorbird | old people cost a lot of money | 16:05 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: After 7 weeks extreme lock down, Victoria (Australia) reduced the daily new cases from 725 to 11 (10152 votes) | https://www.heraldsun.com.au/coronavirus/melbournes-harsh-lockdown-could-end-weeks-early-if-numbers-continue-to-fall/news-story/e692edcf03f8b55f40acb8be3bd9f19c | https://redd.it/iwxtgl | 17:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +65883 cases (now 31.4 million), +828 deaths (now 967899) since 4 hours ago — India: +32507 cases (now 5.5 million), +412 deaths (now 88345) since 5 hours ago — Reunion: +221 cases (now 3415) since 2 days ago — US: +9130 cases (now 7.0 million), +86 deaths (now 204208) since 4 hours ago | 18:20 |
| Jigsy | So Boris went to Italy to get his eyesight checked? | 18:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Greece: +453 cases (now 15595), +6 deaths (now 344) since a day ago — World: +1234 cases (now 31.4 million), +24 deaths (now 967923) since 18 minutes ago — Czechia: +781 cases (now 50071), +18 deaths (now 521) since 16 hours ago | 18:35 |
| kevin-oculus | how is canada doing with covid19 | 18:35 |
| de-facto | !canada | 18:36 |
| CoronaBot | Top ten infected provinces: Quebec: #1 (67,542), Ontario: #2 (46,849), Alberta: #3 (16,381), British Columbia: #4 (7,842), Saskatchewan: #5 (1,807), Manitoba: #6 (1,586), Nova Scotia: #7 (1,086), Newfoundland and Labrador: #8 (272), New Brunswick: #9 (194), Prince Edward Island: #10 (57) | 18:36 |
| kevin-oculus | they doing okish | 18:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Andorra: +117 cases (now 1681) since 2 days ago — World: +1588 cases (now 31.4 million), +17 deaths (now 967940) since 20 minutes ago — US: +973 cases (now 7.0 million), +4 deaths (now 204212) since 33 minutes ago — Channel Islands: +8 cases (now 652) since 3 days ago | 18:50 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Hydroxychloroquine as pre-exposure prophylaxis for COVID-19 in healthcare workers: a randomized trial (81 votes) | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.18.20197327v1 | https://redd.it/ix1v2h | 18:56 |
| de-facto | !europe | 19:04 |
| de-facto | !eu | 19:04 |
| de-facto | would be nice if that would be implemented just like !usa !canada and !australia | 19:05 |
| bin_bash | de-facto: europe isnt a country | 19:43 |
| mirrorbird | covid isn't natural | 19:50 |
| bin_bash | shut up mirrorbird | 19:50 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Immunity to COVID-19 is probably higher than tests have shown (83 votes) | https://news.ki.se/immunity-to-covid-19-is-probably-higher-than-tests-have-shown | https://redd.it/ix350h | 19:51 |
| darsie | bin_bash: United States From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (Redirected from America) | 19:53 |
| Setebos | Wait, WHAT? "@CDCgov removes statement on airborne virus transmission, claiming website error" It wasn't error- it is politics at the agency, again. How can anyone trust this #publichealth agency after repeated missteps? | 19:54 |
| Setebos | https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/09/21/cdc-covid-aerosols-airborne-guidelines/ | 19:55 |
| bin_bash | darsie: wat | 19:58 |
| bin_bash | Setebos: the article i read stated that it was a draft published in error | 19:59 |
| bin_bash | but yeah the polticis are really infuriating | 19:59 |
| darsie | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America redirects to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States | 19:59 |
| bin_bash | darsie: ok so what | 20:00 |
| de-facto | at the end its the behavior of the majority of people anyhow, hence if politics fail to give proper guidelines in time, what would prevent people from acting in a sane and secure way on their own motivation? e.g. its pretty clear airborne transmission is a major problem, regardless on what WHO et al says against it without providing sources or data for such claims | 20:11 |
| bin_bash | de-facto: becuase the majority of people are incapable of that. | 20:12 |
| de-facto | i rather like to read the original publications from the original authors investigating and providing the full set of data | 20:12 |
| bin_bash | most people can't even comprehend that level | 20:12 |
| mirrorbird | talk about elitism | 20:13 |
| bin_bash | it's not elitism to speak truthfully. | 20:13 |
| de-facto | i am not that pessimistic, i think most people can understand such things as they probably already experienced airborne transmission e.g. with flu the last winter or such | 20:14 |
| bin_bash | de-facto: then you haven't really worked with the general public very much, have you? | 20:14 |
| de-facto | i have not | 20:14 |
| bin_bash | it shows | 20:14 |
| bin_bash | not to mention that the actual journal articles are largely inaccessible for most people unless they know how to get around paywalls | 20:14 |
| bin_bash | and then if they even get access, good luck understanding whether the study was well-designed and if the methodology makes sense and the results, etc | 20:15 |
| de-facto | covid articles mostly are open though, fortunately (in contrast to the rest) | 20:15 |
| bin_bash | yes, but even if they had physical access to them most people in the general public don't know how to read studies | 20:15 |
| bin_bash | hence why the whole "vaccines cause autism" bullshit is still going around | 20:16 |
| de-facto | thats why i like it when experts make podcasts to make such papers digestible to the people, they explain the studies, their perspective on it and make people curious for digging deeper | 20:16 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes, this is true | 20:16 |
| bin_bash | better if articles are written since podcasts are a terrible format | 20:16 |
| bin_bash | like news articles | 20:16 |
| bin_bash | the problem is that as soon as something is published the news jumps on it as if it's a fact | 20:16 |
| bin_bash | that's just as bad | 20:16 |
| bin_bash | worse even | 20:17 |
| bin_bash | anything for clicks | 20:17 |
| bin_bash | it's a sick, sad world | 20:17 |
| de-facto | yes even on the preprint servers, most dont differentiate on real peer reviewed publications and just preprint papers | 20:17 |
| de-facto | or if the authors are writing on a topic of their field of expertise or a foreign one | 20:18 |
| bin_bash | yep | 20:18 |
| tinwhiskers | It's not just scientific illiteracy that is to blame for things like the autism delusion. It's actively anti-science beliefs. Even if they do understand the science they will deny it. | 20:19 |
| bin_bash | that's why it's so critical that organizations like the CDC and WHO post actual scientific information unhindered by politics | 20:19 |
| bin_bash | but in this day and age that's essewntially impossible | 20:19 |
| bin_bash | tinwhiskers: yes, that's very true and the same thing carries over into covid | 20:19 |
| Setebos | de-facto: you know many industries schools, 'follow the CDC' guidelines, there is also the legal component, it isn't all about You the libertarian :) | 20:19 |
| de-facto | yes i'll agree on that | 20:19 |
| bin_bash | it's extremely infuriating to be an intelligent person watching it happen | 20:19 |
| bin_bash | and despite trying to educate, getting nowehre | 20:19 |
| de-facto | it is a problem when CDC or WHO make debatable statements without providing proper reasoning or sources/data because it undermines the trust in their credibility and i agree we need such centralized sources for high quality information | 20:21 |
| bin_bash | yep | 20:21 |
| Setebos | the article didn't even mention Mr.Caputo and his call to arms | 20:21 |
| tinwhiskers | Yes the conspiracy theorists seem to think all the scientists are colluding in a lie but really it's an attack on science from politicians and interest groups that the conspiracy theorists gobble up like the sheep they proclaim others to be. | 20:22 |
| Setebos | ya, they don't comprehend irony I could find some Arendt quotation, but ...... | 20:24 |
| tinwhiskers | Yeah, to be fair, the cdc and who have done a lot of harm to scientific credibility - which is what happens when scientific communication is so politically driven. | 20:25 |
| bin_bash | ^^^^ | 20:26 |
| bin_bash | it's a crying shame, it really is | 20:26 |
| de-facto | well imho its good that such problems surfaced in the light of the pandemic so we know about where improvements could have impact | 20:27 |
| tinwhiskers | Agreed | 20:27 |
| bin_bash | that's true | 20:27 |
| tinwhiskers | Silver lining, huh? | 20:27 |
| bin_bash | you're much more an optimist than me | 20:27 |
| bin_bash | ive never been ashamed to be american until this administration. generations going back to the revolution, and i'm considering moving to canada. it makes me so sad | 20:27 |
| bin_bash | then again i never lived during any other truly tumultuous time | 20:28 |
| Setebos | Redfield, if he had moral courage, would have resigned long ago | 20:29 |
| de-facto | i think we do need some optimism to target a constructive approach derived from the perspective on looking at things, understand surfacing problems as a chance for improvements rather than reacting with a pessimistic and fatalistic view | 20:32 |
| Setebos | de-facto: so you think they are going to refund public health now and enforce their existing ethics policy and procedures more? I guessing we're heading for Austerity for the middle class and below | 20:32 |
| Setebos | now I'm waiting for the usual dozen excuses like, well everything was politicized before and we just didn't know it, etc :) | 20:33 |
| de-facto | i have to admit i dont understand much of politics, but my hope would be that those in charge understand how valuable this chance for improvement is on the longterm also from an economic standpoint (considering purely the economic impact of this right now) | 20:35 |
| de-facto | its even clear from observing the reaction from countries with some experience on containing epidemics, the impact on them (also economically) is much less than for the inexperienced ones, hence demonstrating the impact on learning from problems and mistakes | 20:39 |
| Setebos | yeah keywords 'those in charge' and oversight being enforced, maybe time to end the Monarch powers of that branch | 20:39 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for World: +62245 cases (now 31.5 million), +1001 deaths (now 968941) since 2 hours ago — India: +33656 cases (now 5.6 million), +598 deaths (now 88943) since 2 hours ago — Spain: +12134 cases (now 671468), +168 deaths (now 30663) since 3 days ago — US: +4058 cases (now 7.0 million), +47 deaths (now 204259) since 2 hours ago | 20:51 |
| Setebos | Sturgis Part II https://www.rawstory.com/2020/09/health-care-group-sponsoring-south-dakota-indoor-country-music-festival-that-doesnt-require-masks-report/ | 20:52 |
| darsie | bin_bash: America isn't a country. | 21:29 |
| tinwhiskers | In most of the world, colloquially "America" means the USA if you're not more specific. | 21:31 |
| blkshp | In that context America is colloquial for The United States of America which is a country | 21:31 |
| blkshp | Basically the same sentence at exactly the same time ^5 tinwhiskers. | 21:31 |
| tinwhiskers | :-) | 21:31 |
| bin_bash | darsie: yes it is | 21:32 |
| bin_bash | "The Americas" are not a country | 21:32 |
| bin_bash | they're continents. | 21:32 |
| bin_bash | There is no country called "United States of Europe" | 21:32 |
| bin_bash | you know what people in Mexico call the US in conversation? "America". Even though it's also in North America. | 21:33 |
| darsie | South America is not in America. | 21:34 |
| bin_bash | that's correct | 21:34 |
| bin_bash | South America is a continent | 21:34 |
| bin_bash | so obviously it's not inside a country, that would be weird. | 21:34 |
| darsie | Well, it's different in German. | 21:34 |
| bin_bash | I can't help you with that. | 21:35 |
| bin_bash | isn't it something like sudamerika or something and then north american is like nordamerika | 21:35 |
| darsie | Yes. | 21:35 |
| bin_bash | it's been ages so i could be completely wrong | 21:35 |
| bin_bash | ok so what's the problem? | 21:36 |
| darsie | https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerika ist ein Doppelkontinent der Erde, der aus Nordamerika (mit Zentralamerika) und Südamerika besteht, häufig aber auch in Nord-, Mittel- und Südamerika aufgeteilt wird. | 21:36 |
| bin_bash | This seems largely off-topic for this channel | 21:37 |
| bin_bash | i dont even know what you're trying to get at | 21:37 |
| darsie | bin_bash: Just an association I had when you said europe isnt a country. | 21:37 |
| bin_bash | ok | 21:37 |
| bin_bash | well europe isn't a country, and America is a country. The Americas are the continents. | 21:37 |
| bin_bash | North and South America, and Central America which is technically part of North America. | 21:38 |
| de-facto | anyhow would be quite useful to have some top 10 European countries stats e.g. daily new cases from yesterday (so reporting is compteled in all of them) per 100k citizens (so per capita weights balance) or such to rank where the pandemic currently got the most problematic progression in Europe | 21:42 |
| de-facto | or even weekly new cases per 100k citizens (afaik thats the metric deciding over lockdown measures in many European places, if they go over 50 some action is assumed to be required) | 21:45 |
| de-facto | darsie, i am curious how is that new traffic light regional status system working out so far in Austria? | 21:47 |
| de-facto | how does it work, something like region 1 got green light (as in low incidence), region 2 already yellow (potential progression to a problematic state), region 3 red (more aggressive containment required)? | 21:49 |
| de-facto | (thats just a guess, hence my curiosity) | 21:50 |
| darsie | de-facto: There were some disagreements or disputes and now it's just a recommendation, I think. | 21:50 |
| darsie | There's also orange. | 21:51 |
| de-facto | how accurate does that status reflect the current trajectories, e.g. with all reporting delays etc, is it fast enough to prevent undesired progressions? | 21:51 |
| darsie | 2/3 of the commissions are policitians and 1/3 are medical experts or so. | 21:51 |
| de-facto | ugh | 21:52 |
| darsie | idk | 21:52 |
| de-facto | so politicians always could overrule the scientific or medical experts? | 21:52 |
| darsie | yes | 21:52 |
| de-facto | hmm imho should be the other way around | 21:53 |
| darsie | There were elections somewhere and everything was green. After the elections suddenly lots of districts turned yellow or orange. | 21:53 |
| de-facto | give those who invested their career into gaining competence also the most weight when it comes to the questions on their field of expertise, i think the idea of having a scientific council with independent experts (well thats where the problem is) on all relevant fields finding a consensus about the current view on the pandemic problem | 21:55 |
| de-facto | then let politicians decide on that base which exact measures would be required | 21:56 |
| de-facto | because then politicians would have to explain and give good reasons e.g. when they ignore a red light or such | 21:56 |
| darsie | I guess we should consider a bit more than just medicine. | 21:57 |
| de-facto | yes of course | 21:58 |
| de-facto | also epidemiologists, modelers, mathematicians, economic experts, psychologists etc pp | 21:59 |
| de-facto | like a council of all affected fields of expertise properly balanced out | 21:59 |
| darsie | Do we need politicians at all? | 21:59 |
| de-facto | but they really somehow have to be independent of politicians, not sure how to achieve that, because there will be pressure on their consensus | 22:00 |
| SphericalCow | social scientists are not going to be better at making decisions than elected lawmakers | 22:00 |
| SphericalCow | look at all the mistakes made by certain scientists early on through the "no evidence" fallacy | 22:01 |
| SphericalCow | no evidence that masks work, no evidence of airborne transmission | 22:01 |
| de-facto | that council should not decide on which measures to implement or such, just give the best possible consensus from experts perspective on the current trajectory of progression | 22:01 |
| SphericalCow | they would not do better because they would not be capable of risk-based thinking | 22:01 |
| SphericalCow | not that certain western politicians have proven themselves any better... | 22:02 |
| de-facto | the politicians are the one responsible to use that public information then to make the actual decisions | 22:02 |
| de-facto | what i mean is that most problems emerge from mixing politics with science, politicizing statemets etc, hence i think both should be strictly separated as good as possible | 22:03 |
| de-facto | and information should be publicly available, so every decision for or against taking some actions would have to be reasonably explained to the people (since they also could see the traffic light status of regions etc) | 22:04 |
| de-facto | yeah in an ideal world i know... | 22:05 |
| de-facto | the challenge would be to really ensure strict separation of scientific consensus and power from politicians, not sure if that even is possible, but would be very desirable to achieve | 22:06 |
| SphericalCow | transparency is good | 22:06 |
| de-facto | yes imho its absolutely required because without the trust of people it will not work out | 22:07 |
| de-facto | hmm maybe something like democratic vote of experts on questions for the consensus, similar to normal elections ensuring anonymous but unique votes? idk just a thought | 22:09 |
| de-facto | transparent as the process ensuring unique single votes from verified identities, yet anonymous as in inability to prove who voted for what to make their opinions as independent as possible | 22:12 |
| Setebos | SphericalCow: believe it or not most medicine, has slim evidence, it has accepted practices mostly | 23:18 |
| metro | %cases canada | 23:53 |
| Brainstorm | metro: In Canada, there have been 144686 confirmed cases (0.4% of the population) and 9229 deaths (6.4% of cases) as of 3 minutes ago. 6.6 million tests were performed (2.2% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 6.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. | 23:53 |
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