| Brainstorm | New from ProPublica: ¿Por qué los votantes no blancos de Georgia tienen que hacer filas durante horas? Hay muchos más ahora, pero tienen menos lugares de votación.: por Stephen Fowler , Georgia Public Broadcasting Read in English . ProPublica es un medio independiente y sin ánimo de lucro que produce periodismo de investigación en pro del [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/U4XPXQ | 00:24 |
|---|---|---|
| Brainstorm | New from Virology.ws: Trial By Error: Some Thoughts on Long-Covid, ME/CFS and MUS: By David Tuller, DrPH *October is crowdfunding month at Berkeley. I conduct this project as a senior fellow in public health and journalism and the university’s Center for Global Public Health. If you would like to support the project, here’s the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/cCZEtE | 00:35 |
| ryouma | great to see tuller | 00:58 |
| ryouma | but that link does not work for me | 00:58 |
| cmpx[m] | It worked the second time I clicked in it | 01:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: New tool predicts risks of hospital admission and death from COVID-19: A new risk tool, developed by UK researchers to predict a person's risk of being admitted to hospital and dying from COVID-19 has been published by The BMJ today. → https://is.gd/bdBHLe | 01:08 |
| ryouma | cmpx[m]: hmm interesting. multuple clicks still do not work for me. as if the link shortener does not have the original. | 01:09 |
| ryouma | which is https://www.virology.ws/2020/10/20/trial-by-error-long-covid-me-cfs-and-medically-unexplained-symptoms/?fbclid=IwAR3mmPJcsAN0oeo1fy4HD1pXHa_23RzdzRd9IPblVW7uIbD64P0-VZQsn5s | 01:10 |
| cmpx[m] | ryouma strange, it didn't work for me first click, got the "link is not here" or some similar message, clicked again and it has worked since 🤷♂️ | 01:11 |
| ryouma | perhaps the server is confused | 01:13 |
| ryouma | btw you said "SHRUG, ZERO WIDTH JOINER, male symbol, VARIATION SELECTOR-16" :) | 01:13 |
| cmpx[m] | Weird. It's just a shrug to me | 01:14 |
| ryouma | maybe that's matrix to irc conversion | 01:15 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +4547 cases (now 8.5 million), +31 deaths (now 226049) since an hour ago — Canada: +122 cases (now 204033), +12 deaths (now 9810) since an hour ago | 01:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +1479 cases (now 8.5 million), +4 deaths (now 226053) since 33 minutes ago — Canada: +430 cases (now 204463), +2 deaths (now 9812) since 31 minutes ago | 01:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Ireland To Impose 6-Week National Lockdown, Estimates 150,000 Job Losses → https://is.gd/qN2nAC | 02:26 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Dozens to be deliberately infected with coronavirus in UK ‘human challenge’ trials (82 votes) | https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-02821-4 | https://redd.it/jez7on | 02:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada sees 2,341 new coronavirus cases as deaths near 10,000 → https://is.gd/Syms4E | 02:59 |
| LjL | mildly interesting: https://www.immuni.italia.it/dashboard.html | 03:18 |
| LjL | downloads trend looks a lot more linear than i'd have guessed | 03:18 |
| LjL | although those are just a few days | 03:19 |
| LjL | what's for sure is that the positive people in italy are NOT one in 10k | 03:19 |
| LjL | so not enough people are reporting positives, or more likely, in too many regions testing facilities aren't really equipped with the stuff needed to give people valid codes for the apps | 03:20 |
| LjL | just like the debacle in the UK, except in the UK, it surfaced quicker | 03:20 |
| LjL | in Italy it started being known about Veneto a few days ago, then it turned out it was the same in other regions | 03:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +10234 cases (now 941673) since 5 hours ago — US: +3613 cases (now 8.5 million), +96 deaths (now 226149) since an hour ago — New Zealand: +25 cases (now 1912) since 20 hours ago — Canada: +56 cases (now 204519), +1 deaths (now 9813) since an hour ago | 03:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Melania Trump cancels campaign trip due to ‘lingering cough’ from COVID → https://is.gd/3SgclF | 03:55 |
| LjL | %cases ireland | 03:58 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Ireland, there have been 52256 confirmed cases (1.1% of the population) and 1865 deaths (3.6% of cases) as of 9 hours ago. 1.5 million tests were performed (3.6% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 7.3% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Ireland for time series data. | 03:58 |
| LjL | oh wow, by population Ireland is about to reach the incidence in Lombardy | 03:59 |
| LjL | unless we rise faster | 04:00 |
| LjL | high! | 04:01 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Televangelist Pat Robertson says God told him Trump will win, then an asteroid will hit the Earth → https://is.gd/AmC2Xz | 04:06 |
| LjL | i read this now... and it just sounds... plausible | 04:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Nigerian military opens fire on peaceful protesters in Lagos #EndSARS protests were subdued with violent tactics → https://is.gd/b8TyQC | 05:23 |
| Chezyy | whats popping yall | 06:46 |
| ryouma | Brainstorm: that has nothing to do with the pandemic | 06:57 |
| ryouma | not that you are strong ai or antyhing | 06:57 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +9679 cases (now 240159), +46 deaths (now 10489) since a day ago — France: +5117 cases (now 946790) since 3 hours ago — Netherlands: +962 cases (now 245353), +12 deaths (now 6833) since 3 hours ago — Canada: +4 deaths (now 9817) since 3 hours ago | 07:08 |
| Brainstorm | New preprint: 2.5 Million Person-Years of Life Have Been Lost Due to COVID-19 in the United States by STEPHEN J ELLEDGE et al, published on 2020-10-20 at https://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.10.18.20214783 [... want %more?] | 07:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +5168 cases (now 951958), +17 deaths (now 33902) since 18 minutes ago — Netherlands: +2048 cases (now 247401), +11 deaths (now 6844) since 18 minutes ago — Lombardy, Italy: +2023 cases (now 130479), +19 deaths (now 17103) since a day ago — United Kingdom: +1473 cases (now 764015) since 13 hours ago | 07:23 |
| de-facto | +7595 detected new cases in Germany | 08:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Woman catches coronavirus twice and warns second infection nearly killed her → https://is.gd/YYQgMq | 08:42 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: U.S. COVID update: Hospitalizations at highest level since August (10096 votes) | https://twitter.com/BNODesk/status/1318685548492587008?s=09 | https://redd.it/jf0mc9 | 08:55 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +515 cases (now 8.5 million), +20 deaths (now 226169) since 5 hours ago | 09:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Safety considerations for visiting primary care doctors: The COVID-19 pandemic has left many people with chronic health conditions relying on telemedicine rather than seeing their doctor in person when necessary or putting off important visits entirely because they fear being infected. → https://is.gd/opTOHb | 09:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: DC debuts smartphone-based COVID-19 exposure alert system: The nation's capital has become one of the first jurisdictions in the country to employ a new COVID-19 notification system, a joint Google-Apple venture that delivers alerts to people's phones, notifying them that they may have been exposed to the coronavirus. → https://is.gd/QdJHFi | 09:37 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Tests confirm that Butantan vaccine is the safest in the final stage in Brazil (80 votes) | http://www.butantan.gov.br/noticias/testes-confirmam-que-vacina-do-butantan-e-a-mais-segura-em-fase-final-no-brasil | https://redd.it/jevw7c | 09:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: India to roll out quick and cheap coronavirus paper test: A fast and cheap paper-based coronavirus test will soon be available across India, with scientists hopeful it will help turn the tide on the pandemic in one of the world's worst-hit nations. → https://is.gd/pwVGm0 | 09:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: Lockdown had 'major impact' on mental health: Lockdowns may have "profound and long-lasting" effects on mental health, researchers are warning. → https://is.gd/w9r55o | 10:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from WHO Euro: On the path to better sexual and reproductive health services for adolescents in Kazakhstan: Despite the high political priority given to the health of women, children and adolescents in Kazakhstan, gaps exist in the delivery of health services to young people, according to a new report from WHO/Europe. The COVID-19 epidemic in the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/0K4QC8 | 10:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: European nations mixed in their response to Covid-19 spikes → https://is.gd/uzEYfG | 10:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: David Oliver: How not to do covid-19 comms—copy our government: I’ve been thinking for months that many failings in our pandemic response are really public communication failings. Compared with consistent communications and strategy in other countries, the UK... → https://is.gd/wVeRlp | 11:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): 'Long Covid': These 5 factors make it more likely you'll suffer long-term from coronavirus → https://is.gd/jsniOn | 11:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Ireland steeled for start of second virus lockdown: Ireland on Wednesday braced for the start of a second nationwide coronavirus lockdown, with fears the new six-week hiatus will deal a heavier blow than the last one. → https://is.gd/1tgGoN | 12:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +5596 cases (now 91763) since 19 hours ago — US: +643 cases (now 8.5 million), +35 deaths (now 226204) since 3 hours ago | 12:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: An eyewitness tells BBC that #EndSARS police brutality protesters were kneeling in surrender when security forces fired on them in Lagos, Nigeria. Eyewitness says he counted 20 bodies on the ground after security forces opened fire. → https://is.gd/K3lsQw | 12:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): 'Long Covid': These 5 factors make it more likely you'll suffer long term from coronavirus → https://is.gd/jsniOn | 13:42 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: 5 things to know before the stock market opens Wednesday: U.S. stock futures fell Wednesday morning as investors monitor coronavirus stimulus talks. → https://is.gd/lHgvmz | 14:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: On-the-spot coronavirus test within spitting distance: A COVID-19 test that will provide results within minutes, easing the way for borders to reopen, is set to be manufactured in Australia for Australian use. → https://is.gd/J6iU1h | 14:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +5733 cases (now 253134), +37 deaths (now 6873) since 7 hours ago | 14:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: What South Africans must do to avoid a resurgence of COVID-19 infections: South Africa's stringent lockdown earlier this year may have saved lives by containing the spread of COVID-19. New COVID-19 infections have been declining and lockdown restrictions relaxed. But this has triggered fears of a new wave of infections. → https://is.gd/Ai9fkv | 14:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: 5 things to know before the stock market opens Wednesday: U.S. stock futures were steady Wednesday morning as investors monitor coronavirus stimulus talks. → https://is.gd/lHgvmz | 14:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +412 cases (now 8.5 million), +16 deaths (now 226220) since 3 hours ago | 15:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: STAT Plus: A pivotal FDA meeting on Biogen’s Alzheimer’s treatment is near. Here’s what you need to know: Apart from the possible approval of Covid-19 vaccines later this fall, there won’t be a bigger event in biotech this year than an FDA advisory panel meeting on Biogen's Alzheimer's… → https://is.gd/AlcsrC | 15:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Pharma: STAT Plus: Pharmalittle: AstraZeneca Covid-19 trial may resume in U.S. this week; Trump is using HHS to boost re-election bid → https://is.gd/3ddHoS | 15:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Q&A: A COVID-19 vaccine is coming—will it be safe?: In March, at the start of the COVID-19 pandemic, there was a consensus among health care providers and public health officials that a vaccine that provided complete immunity to SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, would effectively end the pandemic. → https://is.gd/HOFM0h | 15:44 |
| metreo | %cases canada | 15:47 |
| Brainstorm | metreo: In Canada, there have been 204685 confirmed cases (0.5% of the population) and 9815 deaths (4.8% of cases) as of 8 hours ago. 8.8 million tests were performed (2.3% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 5.4% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. | 15:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Mass screening method cuts COVID-19 testing costs: Using a new mathematical approach to screen large groups for COVID-19 could be around 20 times cheaper than individual testing, a study suggests. → https://is.gd/wsEocq | 15:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Contact-tracing apps: There's no evidence they're helping stop COVID-19: During the first wave of COVID-19, researchers at Oxford University built a computer model that suggested if 56% of the the UK downloaded and used a contact-tracing app (alongside other control measures) it could end the epidemic in the country. → https://is.gd/s62TO8 | 16:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Dr. Scott Gottlieb: U.S. about 'a week away from a rapid acceleration' of coronavirus cases → https://is.gd/AHVSi1 | 16:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: France says to extend curfew measures as COVID spreads: France will place more regions on the highest health alert level as coronavirus infections continue to spread fast, the government's spokesman said on Wednesday. → https://is.gd/g0DxQe | 16:28 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: The COVID-19 response illustrates that traditional academic reward structures and metrics do not reflect crucial contributions to modern science (81 votes) | https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3000913 | https://redd.it/jf9w7z | 16:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Making ordinary decisions in extraordinary times: a response: With respect to the first wave of the covid-19 pandemic, Burman and colleagues question the extent of decision support guidance.1 While we agree that government guidance was lacking, clinically... → https://is.gd/tb4TiT | 17:02 |
| LjL | Jump from 11000 to 15000 in Italy | 17:17 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +15199 cases (now 449648), +127 deaths (now 36832) since a day ago — US: +2262 cases (now 8.5 million), +53 deaths (now 226273) since 2 hours ago | 17:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Watch live: New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo holds a press briefing on Covid as cases climb across U.S. → https://is.gd/IEmgqr | 17:24 |
| LjL | 127 deaths is also clearly growing... | 17:29 |
| LjL | And 56 more people in ICU | 17:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from Scientific American: Human Challenge Trials Will Deliberately Infect Dozens in the UK: Proponents of the trials say they can be run safely and help to identify effective vaccines, but others have questioned their value -- Read more on ScientificAmerican.com → https://is.gd/lGMXEL | 17:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from In The Pipeline: The Vaccine Tightrope: We’re getting closer to having to deal with a number of tricky issues around the first Emergency Use Authorizations (EUAs) for coronavirus vaccines. These have never quite come up in this way before, because (for one thing) EUAs for vaccines are relatively rare events, and (for another) we’ve never [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/j6o5tm | 17:46 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +1888 cases (now 8.5 million), +46 deaths (now 226319) since 33 minutes ago | 17:51 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Vitamin D deficiency in association with endothelial dysfunction: Implications for patients with COVID-19 (80 votes) | https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33070539/ | https://redd.it/jf8wqs | 17:53 |
| Jigsy | 26K today. | 17:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +25214 cases (now 789229) since 10 hours ago — US: +1307 cases (now 8.5 million), +19 deaths (now 226338) since 22 minutes ago | 18:06 |
| Jigsy | %cases UK | 18:09 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In United Kingdom, there have been 789229 confirmed cases (1.2% of the population) and 44158 deaths (5.6% of cases) as of 6 minutes ago. 30.2 million tests were performed (2.6% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 18:09 |
| LjL | %cases italy | 18:16 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: In Italy, there have been 449648 confirmed cases (0.7% of the population) and 36832 deaths (8.2% of cases) as of 58 minutes ago. 14.0 million tests were performed (3.2% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.9% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 12.5% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Italy for time series data. | 18:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Next up in hunt for COVID-19 vaccine: Testing shots in kids: The global hunt for a COVID-19 vaccine for kids is only just beginning—a lagging start that has some U.S. pediatricians worried they may not know if any shots work for young children in time for the next school year. → https://is.gd/oSLTe1 | 18:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +2017 cases (now 8.5 million), +45 deaths (now 226383) since 18 minutes ago — Arizona, US: +975 cases (now 233912), +17 deaths (now 5854) since 22 hours ago | 18:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Ireland set for second lockdown as Europe reels from virus surge: Millions of people in Ireland were getting set for a second national lockdown on Wednesday, the first European country to take the drastic step as the continent battles a persistent surge in coronavirus cases. → https://is.gd/M249uX | 18:31 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Cognitive deficits in people who have recovered from COVID-19 relative to controls: An N=84,285 online study (81 votes) | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.20.20215863v1 | https://redd.it/jf9jbe | 18:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: No COVID-19 vaccines allowed in California without state approval: (HealthDay)—California is not going to allow the use of any COVID-19 vaccines until its own panel of experts approves them, Gov. Gavin Newsom announced Monday. → https://is.gd/tPITvf | 18:42 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +1060 cases (now 8.5 million), +35 deaths (now 226418) since 32 minutes ago — Canada: +622 cases (now 205557), +8 deaths (now 9823) since 11 hours ago | 18:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: New wave of COVID infections taking hold in America: (HealthDay)—A third surge of coronavirus cases now has a firm grip on the United States, with an average of 59,000 new infections being reported across the country every day. → https://is.gd/aYRwxU | 18:53 |
| aradesh | Jigsy: getting scary again | 19:03 |
| aradesh | i've got a feeling it's gonna get pretty bad over the next few months ... | 19:04 |
| aradesh | there's this sense of fatigue, giving up | 19:04 |
| aradesh | just as the weather is getting bad too | 19:04 |
| metreo1 | where? | 19:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Spectral CT improves detection of early-stage COVID-19: According to an open-access article in ARRS' American Journal of Roentgenology (AJR), the use of spectral CT with electron density imaging could improve the assessment of lung lesion extent in patients with early-stage coronavirus disease (COVID-19). → https://is.gd/bYZBw1 | 19:04 |
| aradesh | europe | 19:04 |
| aradesh | the UK at least, which is where i am | 19:04 |
| aradesh | for many countries it's like... we spent a huge amount of money back in march, and so on, handling the lockdown | 19:07 |
| aradesh | and now we're back to the position we were... just before we made that decision to lock everything down again | 19:07 |
| aradesh | but less like 20% GDP | 19:07 |
| metreo1 | so can't afford another lockdown? | 19:07 |
| aradesh | in debt | 19:07 |
| aradesh | that's probably what a lot of the politicians are thinking. | 19:07 |
| metreo1 | we have that problem here | 19:07 |
| aradesh | where's that? | 19:07 |
| metreo1 | another lockdown would decimate too many businesses | 19:07 |
| metreo1 | canada | 19:08 |
| aradesh | ah yeah i'd imagine it's pretty similar in america and canada too | 19:08 |
| Jigsy | The economy will be even more fucked either way. | 19:08 |
| metreo1 | we are much less densly populated | 19:08 |
| Jigsy | What with everyone getting sick. | 19:08 |
| metreo1 | actually things are bad, I'm not a small business owner though | 19:08 |
| metreo1 | aren't* | 19:09 |
| metreo1 | if we locked down again we'd lose like 1/2 of all resturants | 19:09 |
| metreo1 | considering the last 'two-weel | 19:10 |
| metreo1 | *week' lockdown didn't fix anything is clearly not an option | 19:10 |
| aradesh | annoying how it is kind of resulting in a consolidation of the markets into a smaller amount of big businesses | 19:10 |
| aradesh | a monopolisation effect | 19:10 |
| metreo1 | even though it's probably techincally what's needed | 19:11 |
| metreo1 | I guess we are going to be listening to scientists less and less as time goes on | 19:11 |
| metreo1 | Tump already turned against Fauci | 19:11 |
| LjL | aradesh, it's getting real bad again in Italy too :( | 19:12 |
| LjL | and in Lombardy gain in particular | 19:12 |
| LjL | kinda hoped, selfish as it is, that it would be another region's turn this time | 19:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: COVID-19 patients with spinal fractures are twice as likely to die: Patients with COVID-19 and vertebral fractures are twice as likely to die from the disease, according to a study published in the Endocrine Society's Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism. → https://is.gd/fhy52R | 19:15 |
| aradesh | seems the same story all over europe | 19:15 |
| LjL | aradesh, everybody's looking at the other countries crash, and saying "oh but it's not yet as bad here", until it is, which really it's obvious it will be very shortly | 19:16 |
| LjL | but obvious things apparently aren't obvious, or something | 19:16 |
| metreo1 | Not in NZ and AUS apparently | 19:16 |
| LjL | people on IRC can tell the future, by magic, politicians can't | 19:16 |
| LjL | metreo1, well those aren't in europe so there is that :P | 19:16 |
| metreo1 | it's the same story _globally_ same as what we're seeing in _europe_ | 19:17 |
| LjL | NZ and Australia are in the other hemisphere, i really don't know how much that matter, Arizona had a bad spike even during summer, so i really just don't know, but it's something to keep in mind maybe | 19:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Spain tops one million virus cases: health ministry: Spain has become the first European Union nation to surpass a million coronavirus infections, official data showed on Wednesday, as the government mulls fresh restrictions on public life to curb the spread of the disease. → https://is.gd/t7eGwy | 19:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): AstraZeneca shares turn negative after Brazilian health authority says volunteer in Covid vaccine study dies → https://is.gd/CQE643 | 19:37 |
| LjL | ugh | 19:37 |
| genera | huh | 19:39 |
| metreo1 | social interaction has been discouraged here | 19:46 |
| LjL | %papers anosmia | 19:46 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, 114 papers: Anosmia, a Hidden Sign for COVID-19? A Case Report and Literature Review by Karen Christelle et al, published on 2020-05-04 at [u'https://doi.org/10.21203/rs.3.rs-27117/v1', u'https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-27117/v1.pdf'] [... want %more?] | 19:46 |
| LjL | %more | 19:46 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, [...] COVID-19 presenting as anosmia and dysgeusia in New York City emergency departments, March - April, 2020 by Tina Z. Wang et al, published on 2020-07-07 at http://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.07.06.20147751 [...] → https://paste.ee/p/tmoU3 | 19:46 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, [...] had so many simultaneous vaccine trials → https://paste.ee/p/xthzW | 19:46 |
| metreo1 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_use_authorization | 19:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Virus spikes have officials looking to shore up hospitals: Hospitals across the United States are starting to buckle from a resurgence of COVID-19 cases, with several states setting records for the number of people hospitalized and leaders scrambling to find extra beds and staff. New highs in cases have been reported in states [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/wL2Xzx | 19:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +16973 cases (now 1.0 million), +156 deaths (now 34366) since a day ago — US: +5731 cases (now 8.5 million), +129 deaths (now 226547) since an hour ago — France: +5463 cases (now 957421), +163 deaths (now 34048) since 12 hours ago | 20:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Scientists develop algorithm to help relieve pressure on the NHS: New research suggests an algorithm could be used to help optimise the sharing of healthcare resources during the COVID-19 pandemic, preventing NHS intensive care units (ICU) from becoming overwhelmed. → https://is.gd/hXPo7p | 20:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): AstraZeneca shares turn negative after Brazilian health authority says volunteer in Covid vaccine study dies → https://is.gd/CQE643 | 20:21 |
| LjL | the AstraZeneca trial participant who died has died from COVID, and they had received a placebo, unfortunately for them, but fortunately for the continuation of the trial | 20:30 |
| LjL | https://mobile.twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1318975105653944321?s=21 | 20:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine trial Brazil volunteer dies, trial to continue → https://is.gd/h7r5AG | 20:32 |
| metreo | why are they doing placebo? | 20:41 |
| ecks | how would you conduct the study without a placebo | 20:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Covid infection rates will rise in New York and U.S. as state fights 'microclusters,' Cuomo says → https://is.gd/OlxUdM | 20:43 |
| metreo | placebo is everyone who isn't vaccinated | 20:51 |
| metreo | it | 20:51 |
| metreo | *'s the case on the street | 20:51 |
| DeleL_ | So this thing real or they just want to control people? | 20:52 |
| metreo | no you are already testing resistance that is already known outside of the lab where people are being given vaccines | 20:55 |
| metreo | you can simply sample from the known cases | 21:00 |
| Jigsy | How can you die from a placebo? | 21:00 |
| LjL | Jigsy: you die from COVID | 21:02 |
| Jigsy | Oh, he was already infected? | 21:03 |
| LjL | metreo: they are doing placebo because a phase 3 trial primarily tries to establish whether the vaccine is *effective*, I.e. actually stops COVID, something you can only do ethically (that is unless you infect people on purpose, something the UK is planning but which seems pretty unethical to me and many) if you give a bunch of people the vaccine and another bunch of people a placebo, and then compare the amounts of covid cases in the two groups | 21:04 |
| LjL | Otherwise you have no idea whether your vaccine reduced incidence | 21:04 |
| LjL | DeleL_: it is real, although I'm sure governments also like controlling people, but I'd say the two things are pretty unrelated | 21:05 |
| LjL | Jigsy: the news said he died from COVID complications, so yeah, although so far it's just rumors really | 21:05 |
| metreo | you would know from your in sample group, everyone else is already the control group | 21:05 |
| metreo | you don't need to not give the vaccine because nobody already has it | 21:06 |
| LjL | metreo: no you can't kook at the incidence in everyone else, for the exact same reason why you give your control group a placebo and they don't know whether they got the real thing or not, instead of telling them "hey you're the control group" | 21:06 |
| LjL | This is true in every proper medical study and there's no reason why it becomes false this time | 21:07 |
| LjL | You also have to compare side effects | 21:07 |
| metreo | compare with who? | 21:07 |
| LjL | Between the group that got the vaccine, and the placebo group | 21:07 |
| metreo | but the placebo is nothing | 21:08 |
| LjL | Really why are you asking these things? The way you speak makes me think you know how regular clinical trials are done | 21:08 |
| LjL | If you say that then you have no idea why placebos exist and are used at all | 21:08 |
| LjL | Look it up | 21:08 |
| LjL | %wik double blind trial | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: In a blind or blinded experiment, information which may influence the participants of the experiment is withheld (masked or blinded) until after the experiment is complete. Good blinding can reduce or eliminate experimental biases that arise from a participants' expectations, observer's effect on the [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blinded_experiment | 21:09 |
| metreo | you don't need that comparison, all you care about is the effect on people actually given the vaccine | 21:09 |
| metreo | blinded experiments are neither a requirement nor an indication of a good trial | 21:09 |
| LjL | That is nonsensr | 21:09 |
| LjL | But I'm walking so I'll drop it | 21:10 |
| metreo | it's a design detail and there are many approaches to a given experiment | 21:10 |
| metreo | there is no 'one best' way of designing an experiment | 21:10 |
| metreo | and in this case having a placebo group does not make sense | 21:10 |
| LjL | If you can say "but the placebo is nothing" as if that automatically makes it useless we're just not on the same page, regardless of the repetitive merits of various kinds of trials | 21:11 |
| metreo | other than to add false certainty to the inevitable criticism I suppose :thinking" | 21:11 |
| metreo | :thinking:* | 21:11 |
| metreo | so you give people nothing then give them the virus! | 21:11 |
| metreo | that's reckless | 21:11 |
| metreo | there are hundreds of thousands of people walking around as examples of not being given the vaccine | 21:12 |
| LjL | metreo: you don't give them any virus, not on purpose | 21:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): AstraZeneca shares turn negative after Brazilian health authority says volunteer in Covid vaccine study dies → https://is.gd/CQE643 | 21:16 |
| LjL | They can just get it like all other people | 21:16 |
| metreo | that makes no sense | 21:17 |
| LjL | Seriously what the hell are you on about? There are hundreds of vaccines for COVID in the works. Find me a single one that is having or plans a phase 3 trial without a placebo group. Surely I'd it makes no sense then at least a few will be like that | 21:17 |
| metreo | you can look back in data and see when people became infected | 21:17 |
| metreo | https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid-19-health/placebos-used-vaccine-trials-do-not-please-everyone | 21:18 |
| sanehatter | they vaccinate a group and don't vaccinate a placebo group, then they turn the people loose and statistically some get exposed to the virus, then you look at how many people got ill from the vaccinated and the placebo groups to determine efficacy | 21:18 |
| sanehatter | no? | 21:18 |
| metreo | https://www.statnews.com/2020/09/03/placebos-arent-needed-challenge-trials-covid-19-vaccines/ | 21:19 |
| metreo | that's fine but why bother giving people nothing? | 21:19 |
| sanehatter | metreo, to determine whether the vaccine has harmful effects, for example | 21:20 |
| LjL | metreo: "challenge trials" as in your article are trials where you DO give people the virus on purpose (challenge them with the virus). They can be argued to be MUCH LESS ehical than the regular double blind trial | 21:20 |
| metreo | well sure but I'm saying it's not necessary to do it that way | 21:20 |
| metreo | but if your dealing with tratment of people in an ICU why would you not give a group anything? | 21:21 |
| LjL | I don't see how it can be argued it's unethical to give people a placebo in this case. What about all the people who are simply given nothing? What if I wanted a vaccine too right now? They're treating me unehically by not including me by default! | 21:21 |
| metreo | to do what? watch them recover like anyone else not in the study? | 21:21 |
| sanehatter | it's more ethical to not purposefully expose people to covid since it looks like even people who are likely to get a mild disease might end up suffering from long-term consequences | 21:21 |
| metreo | If the placebo is denying care then it is a question of ethics | 21:21 |
| sanehatter | it's not "care" yet, it's a test to see if it's effective | 21:22 |
| metreo | placebo is telling people they are vaccinated when they have been given nothing | 21:22 |
| LjL | metreo: I am talking specifically about phase 3 VACCINE trials of covid, I have no intention right now of changing the subject to things like treatment of people in ICU | 21:22 |
| metreo | but there could be a trial done in an ICU | 21:22 |
| LjL | I am walking and I risk hitting a pole but I can still see your goalposts shifting | 21:22 |
| metreo | which pole did you hit? | 21:22 |
| sanehatter | people in a placebo-controlled trial know that they may be a part of the placebo group, everyone in the study should still take normal precautions | 21:22 |
| metreo | that's the how not the why | 21:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Dr. Seema Yasmin answers your questions about health and science misinformation and disinformation for the United Nation's #PledgetoPause campaign!: Hi, i'm Dr. Seema Yasmin , Director of the Stanford Health Communication Initiative, Clinical Assistant Professor at Stanford University Department of Medicine and author of Viral [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/1UKjWp | 21:27 |
| dTal | metreo: you have to have a placebo or it's not a valid study | 21:28 |
| dTal | you *need* a control group or you've nothing to compare to | 21:28 |
| dTal | you can't just use "everyone else" | 21:28 |
| dTal | maybe you have a sampling bias in how you pick subjects | 21:28 |
| sanehatter | say you're dying of cancer and you go into a placebo-controlled trial, they give half the patients the drug and half a sugar pill (or injection), and if you get the sugar and die that's too bad for you - but you need that comparison to know if the medicine is effective at all, of course if they knew ahead of time that it worked they'd give it to everyone | 21:28 |
| dTal | maybe being vaccinated changes people's behaviour | 21:29 |
| dTal | to do a proper experiment, you have to keep everything *exactly* the same except the thing you want to test | 21:29 |
| sanehatter | and there have been many drugs tested in the past that made things worse, so it's not so bad to end up being in the placebo group =) | 21:30 |
| dTal | I don't think it's unethical as long you tell people up-front that they have a 50/50 shot | 21:31 |
| metreo | these studies say *nothing* about peoples behavior | 21:31 |
| dTal | that's the point | 21:31 |
| metreo | for what | 21:31 |
| dTal | imagine doing an experiment where you take two groups and pretend to give on a vaccine, and the other one you just give a questionnaire | 21:32 |
| metreo | that giving people water has no effect on their immunity | 21:32 |
| metreo | we only care about one group | 21:32 |
| metreo | we are only interested in those who have been vaccinated | 21:32 |
| metreo | we aren't interested in the placebo group | 21:32 |
| metreo | we are the placebo group | 21:33 |
| dTal | metreo, you are wrong and the medical establishment and everyone else in this channel is right, so you might want to listen up a bit | 21:33 |
| metreo | I've shared medical articles saying the opposite | 21:33 |
| metreo | this is not my opinion | 21:33 |
| metreo | maybe 'shut up' is yours? | 21:33 |
| dTal | we are not a placebo group because we haven't had a placebo | 21:33 |
| dTal | that's what 'placebo' means | 21:34 |
| metreo | what placebo there is no placebo that's the point | 21:34 |
| dTal | pretending to give someone medicine has an effect | 21:34 |
| metreo | it's an injection of water | 21:34 |
| metreo | who cares? | 21:34 |
| blkshp | Was it "English Summer Rain"? | 21:34 |
| metreo | This is not the kind of study where we care how people behave afterwards | 21:34 |
| dTal | just to clarify, you're asserting that control groups are a waste of time? | 21:34 |
| metreo | yes | 21:35 |
| blkshp | o.O | 21:35 |
| dTal | okay I refer you to my statement before | 21:35 |
| dTal | >imagine doing an experiment where you take two groups and pretend to give on a vaccine, and the other one you just give a questionnaire | 21:35 |
| sanehatter | metreo, there is extensive evidence for the placebo effect and how it affects these kinds of test, the pharma companies would not waste money and time on this if it wasn't necessary | 21:35 |
| sanehatter | blkshp, it was "kings of medicine", obviously | 21:35 |
| blkshp | lol :D | 21:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: One Big Reason Women May Be Less Prone to COVID-19: A survey conducted in eight countries in March and April found substantial gender differences both in numbers of people who considered COVID-19 to be a serious health crisis and who agreed with public policies to help fight the pandemic. → https://is.gd/pfJjvq | 21:39 |
| dTal | April? Why'd it take till now to publish it? | 21:45 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +21544 cases (now 8.6 million), +232 deaths (now 226779) since an hour ago | 21:52 |
| LjL | dTal: "controversial"? Anyway I think in the latest ISS report in Italy, they found men and women were equally getting sick with covid, just men tended to get more serious | 22:03 |
| LjL | So that partly Italian study is a bit at odds with the actual Italian facts maybe | 22:03 |
| dTal | well, maybe Italy is more sensible | 22:03 |
| dTal | "The two-wave survey was conducted in Australia, Austria, France, Germany, Italy, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States, and almost 22,000 people responded" | 22:04 |
| LjL | I doubt that! | 22:04 |
| dTal | that's just your cynicism showing | 22:04 |
| dTal | maybe Italy doesn't have the sex-bias in "believing covid exists" | 22:05 |
| dTal | but the other countries do | 22:05 |
| LjL | I can see in my family my dad takes much fewer precautions than my mom, and mainly just when she's looking | 22:06 |
| dTal | anyway, no souce | 22:06 |
| dTal | source | 22:06 |
| LjL | But also, it seems right now the major transmission scenario is within households | 22:06 |
| dTal | "a new survey suggests" isn't exactly the height of rigour :p | 22:06 |
| LjL | %paper author:Profeta | 22:06 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: An error occurred while searching. | 22:06 |
| LjL | Oh well | 22:06 |
| LjL | Oh right I forgot | 22:07 |
| LjL | %papers by Profeta | 22:07 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, SARS-CoV-2 Uses CD4 to Infect T Helper Lymphocytes by Gustavo G. Davanzo et al, published on 2020-09-28 at https://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.09.25.20200329 | 22:07 |
| LjL | Doesn't sound like this one | 22:07 |
| dTal | https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/10/14/2012520117 | 22:07 |
| dTal | $10 | 22:07 |
| sanehatter | sci-hub? | 22:08 |
| LjL | Bleh | 22:09 |
| LjL | But good find | 22:09 |
| LjL | I wanted to see the italy-specific data | 22:09 |
| dTal | https://sci-hub.do/10.1073/pnas.2012520117 | 22:10 |
| dTal | Italy doesn't look any better than anywhere else for gender gap | 22:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from PLOS ONE: Understanding factors influencing the length of hospital stay among non-severe COVID-19 patients: A retrospective cohort study in a Fangcang shelter hospital: by Shishi Wu, Lanping Xue, Helena Legido-Quigley, Mishal Khan, Hua Wu, Xiaoxiang Peng, Xuewen Li, Ping Li As a novel concept of responding to disease epidemics, Fangcang [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/jTE7ia | 22:12 |
| LjL | dTal: yeah unfortunately if it turns out that with that gap present we still have as many women sick as men, devil's advocate, but, it could be taken as an indication that personal preventative measures aren't effective | 22:13 |
| LjL | But they do also say that men are specifically less likely to take measures to protect others | 22:14 |
| LjL | So there is that particular | 22:14 |
| the-wes | %more | 22:19 |
| Brainstorm | the-wes, [...] participants, observer bias, confirmation bias, and other sources. A blind can be imposed on any participant of an experiment, including subjects, researchers, technicians, data analysts, and evaluators. In some cases, while blinding would be useful, it is impossible or unethical. For example, it is not possible to blind a patient to their treatment [...] → https://paste.ee/p/0QMHR | 22:19 |
| Brainstorm | the-wes, [...] shelter hospitals were deployed to expand the health system’s capacity and provide medical services for non-severe COVID-19 patients during the outbreak in Wuhan. To give insights on patient management within Fangcang hospitals, we conducted a retrospective analysis to: 1) describe the characteristics of the patients admitted to Fangcang hospitals [...] → https://paste.ee/p/gEz5L | 22:19 |
| dTal | god men really are pigs huh | 22:23 |
| LjL | oh finally. Lombardy will have only remote learning for high schools since next monday | 22:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: CDC says the U.S. is now seeing a 'distressing trend' in coronavirus outbreak: Jay Butler, the CDC's deputy director for infectious diseases, said Covid-19 cases are now growing "really in all parts of the country," with particularly high transmission in the Midwest. → https://is.gd/XT2z3L | 23:07 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +6503 cases (now 8.6 million), +167 deaths (now 226946) since an hour ago — Canada: +821 cases (now 206378), +1 deaths (now 9824) since 4 hours ago | 23:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLA SALUTE - ORDINANZA 21 ottobre 2020: Ulteriori misure per la prevenzione e gestione dell'emergenzaepidemiologica da COVID-19. Ordinanza ai sensi dell'art. 32 dellalegge 23 dicembre 1978, n. 833 in materia di igiene e sanita'pubblica e dell'art. 2, comma 2 del decreto-legge 25 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/tyYNWd | 23:18 |
| LjL | what now | 23:27 |
| LjL | oh, lombardy | 23:28 |
| LjL | must be the high schools | 23:28 |
| LjL | ah no it's just the curfew | 23:28 |
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