| de-facto | so if a cell gets instructed to produce the antigen s-protein it obviously would produce an immune reaction by exposing those antigens on its surface. why would the immune response let such a cell alive if it would assume it does something worth producing antibodies? | 00:22 |
|---|---|---|
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +10510 cases (now 8.7 million), +134 deaths (now 229160) since 2 hours ago — Canada: +787 cases (now 211973), +9 deaths (now 9902) since 2 hours ago | 00:23 |
| de-facto | i am pretty sure such cells will get killed and removed so also the mRNA recipe for the s-protein inside of them | 00:23 |
| de-facto | i mean if the immune system tries to neutralize the virions with the s-protein, why would it let the factory of them (the infected cell) alive instead of stopping the production? | 00:38 |
| kiwi_52 | de-facto you're in med ? | 00:40 |
| de-facto | nope | 00:40 |
| kiwi_52 | now you are | 00:42 |
| de-facto | hehe i could have said anything, you would not be able to verify anyhow | 00:44 |
| kiwi_52 | indeed | 00:44 |
| kiwi_52 | my knowledge is sorely lacking | 00:44 |
| kiwi_52 | I have all the books on the planet at my reach and yet | 00:45 |
| de-facto | but i think its logical that the immune response would target the factory of the invader when the natural selection optimized for the most efficient removal | 00:45 |
| de-facto | an i think that is what killer cells do | 00:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet: [Correspondence] Misuse of SARS-CoV-2 testing in symptomatic health-care staff in the UK – Authors' reply: We thank Bernard Freudenthal for his response to our previous Correspondence.1 We agree that use of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) testing among health-care workers (HCWs) solely to reduce [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/JZ2iEv | 01:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +7115 cases (now 8.7 million), +65 deaths (now 229225) since 49 minutes ago | 01:08 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: FDA authorises restart of the COVID-19 AZD1222 vaccine US Phase III trial (81 votes) | https://www.astrazeneca.com/content/astraz/media-centre/press-releases/2020/fda-authorises-restart-of-the-covid-19-azd1222-vaccine-us-phase-iii-trial.html | https://redd.it/jgufcp | 01:16 |
| de-facto | there its on again | 01:26 |
| LjL | de-facto, only needed a small negotiation involving half a billion bucks | 01:53 |
| de-facto | whut? | 01:57 |
| LjL | de-facto, afaik the CDC or the White House, well America anyway, struck a deal with AstraZeneca to get another thing they're developing, a monoclonal antibody [cocktail?] that could potentially provide prophylactic immunity for 6-12 months (so if things go as well as they plan, it's effectively similar to a vaccine, without technically being one), and they'd inject about $500m into the company for it | 02:06 |
| LjL | i don't know if that's going to be the thing that they'll unveil at november and that Trump can use to say "here! i gave you a vaccine before the elections! behold!" although that was my hypothesis | 02:07 |
| LjL | but anyway, it look place while the vaccine trial was on hold in the US | 02:07 |
| LjL | so i call that suspicious | 02:07 |
| de-facto | politicizing science again | 02:07 |
| LjL | yeah | 02:07 |
| de-facto | hmm that really sounds suspicious indeed | 02:07 |
| LjL | i'll see if i find the article where i read about it | 02:08 |
| LjL | de-facto, https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-10-funding-covid-antibody-trial-phase.html | 02:09 |
| tinwhiskers | I just saw a link yesterday I think that said something about monoclonal antibodies not proving very successful, but not sure which one they were talking about. | 02:09 |
| tinwhiskers | I was a bit surprised, tbh | 02:09 |
| tinwhiskers | I mean, the whole point is you find an effective antibody then produce it artificially so you'd think it would be effective. | 02:10 |
| de-facto | thats interesting indeed thanks for the link | 02:11 |
| de-facto | binding strength may vary i guess | 02:11 |
| de-facto | like how well it binds to the spikes and how sticky it will remain there | 02:11 |
| de-facto | also i think they use a cocktail to have several types of binding categories (epitopes?) just in case there may be escape mutations to one of them so the others still might catch those to nullify its selective advantage | 02:14 |
| tinwhiskers | ahh | 02:15 |
| ryouma | that is forward thinking | 02:21 |
| ryouma | will the vaccines do that too? | 02:22 |
| ryouma | or could that be dangerous | 02:22 |
| ryouma | e.g. by risking autoimmunity | 02:22 |
| LjL | not quite the same thing, but there's a vaccine or two that are using a cocktail of two *different* adenoviruses in case you're immune to one of them | 02:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +7739 cases (now 8.7 million), +54 deaths (now 229279) since an hour ago — Canada: +469 cases (now 212442), +2 deaths (now 9904) since 2 hours ago — France: +458 cases (now 1.0 million) since 6 hours ago — Netherlands: +9 deaths (now 6973) since 11 hours ago | 02:23 |
| de-facto | i think the sputnik V is Ad26 primer and Ad5 booster | 02:24 |
| LjL | i didn't know that, but i think i had in mind ones where it's actually mixed within the same one | 02:25 |
| LjL | somewhere on Lowe's blog | 02:25 |
| de-facto | could very well be indeed, would make sense i guess, just to ensure one comes through | 02:25 |
| ryouma | what are primer and booster in the context of vaccines? | 02:25 |
| de-facto | first and second shot | 02:25 |
| de-facto | like with some weeks delay in between | 02:25 |
| LjL | some vaccines only need one but it looks with COVID's immunity not looking all that long-lasting, a booster may well be a necessity | 02:26 |
| LjL | i think most vaccines being developed (not all though) include a booster dose | 02:26 |
| de-facto | i think the Oxford has it too, at least Timewarp said he is waiting for a second shot but now the trial is on hold (well its back now) | 02:26 |
| ryouma | do we know the length of immunity in toto? including t cells? | 02:27 |
| LjL | de-facto, i read somewhere that people waiting for a booster shot would get it anyway regardless of the hold | 02:27 |
| de-facto | i guess we dont until time will tell? | 02:27 |
| LjL | ryouma, not really | 02:27 |
| LjL | we don't even know whether T cells are providing any immunity | 02:27 |
| LjL | it's something that may prove true, or not | 02:27 |
| LjL | right now what we do have is (few) people already re-infected | 02:28 |
| LjL | and an article that popped up recently about "why some people may not mount an effective immune response" which you may want to check out | 02:28 |
| de-facto | LjL, oh did not know that interesting, how can they give it anyhow if the trial was on hold? i mean would that not be the whole purpose of the hold to stop until its known that they could proceed? | 02:28 |
| de-facto | ryouma, i think some measurements can be done like ELISA antibody tests or also to provoke T-cells with the antigen (the spike protein) and see how "angry" they get by giving out their chemical signals | 02:29 |
| de-facto | yet i guess thats not too easy to do, needs quite some skills | 02:30 |
| LjL | okay i can't find the article i meant but i found one about the same thing https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/coronavirus-may-shut-down-immune-system-s-vital-classrooms | 02:30 |
| LjL | germinal centers were involved | 02:31 |
| LjL | de-facto, i don't know, i may just be wrong, but i guess a rationale is if you are not getting new participants, fine, you can still get them later when the hold is lifted... but if you skip the booster shots for the participants you already have, you fuck up the entire trial | 02:32 |
| de-facto | yeah that would make sense if they can assume that the hold is due to something that was directly caused by the first shot and is unlikely to develop at later stage when participants are ready for second booster shot | 02:37 |
| de-facto | interesting that germinal center absence in COVID, could that be causative for fast decaying natural immunity and give hope that vaccine induced immunity potentially may last longer if they would be able to somehow involve those germinal centers in the vaccination process? | 02:39 |
| de-facto | i dont even know that they really are | 02:39 |
| LjL | me neither | 02:39 |
| LjL | the other article said something like, for some reasons that are unknown at this time (some defect in those people's germinal centers?) those centers get *destroyed* in severe COVID infections | 02:40 |
| LjL | but with vaccines, since there is no virus actively replicating, it would be unlikely they'd be destroyed | 02:40 |
| LjL | sooooo let's hope | 02:40 |
| LjL | not much left than hope really, SNAFU | 02:40 |
| de-facto | so its not like their fuction is not triggered or suppressed but rather that they are destroyed by the virus? | 02:41 |
| de-facto | that sounds nasty :( | 02:41 |
| LjL | that's how the article read but keep in mind i don't even remember where the article was on :P | 02:44 |
| LjL | whatever sciencemag says is probably more reliable than whatever i originally read | 02:44 |
| ryouma | what do germinal centers do? i thought b cells just gathered in lymph nodes and did their replication and gene shuffling | 02:44 |
| ryouma | the article did not say | 02:44 |
| de-facto | i vaguely remember there was one type of macrophage or lymph cells that was infected by the virus directly and we discussed about if that could potentially be another transport for it | 02:46 |
| de-facto | but i dont remember details anymore | 02:46 |
| ryouma | why is europe bad? | 02:49 |
| de-facto | yeah ACE2-expressing CD68+CD169+ macrophages as potential "trojan horses"? | 02:50 |
| LjL | why europe bad, your guess is as good as mine, but i'd say it was bound to become "bad" again to some extent (imperial college paper back then described how there would be a worse second wave after a lockdown). which imo doesn't mean the lockdowns were a bad idea, just that we didn't make good use of the time they bought us | 02:51 |
| LjL | and now, nobody wants to enter a full lockdown again, so for as long as they refuse, it'll keep getting very bad | 02:52 |
| de-facto | i think it partly is due to the "prevention paradox" people got used to low prevalence situation in summer and are fatigue of the pandemic and its requirements for containment now in high prevalence times | 02:53 |
| ryouma | some study said americans are wearing masks | 02:53 |
| ryouma | what about eu? | 02:53 |
| LjL | masks are mandatory here, most people are wearing them | 02:54 |
| LjL | i don't know how adhered to it is in the rest of italy, but in milan most people *are* wearing them, and yet we're the worst city right now | 02:54 |
| ryouma | again | 02:55 |
| LjL | not again | 02:55 |
| LjL | Lombardy was the worst region, but within it, Milan was relatively spared the first time | 02:55 |
| ryouma | lombardy? | 02:55 |
| ryouma | ok | 02:55 |
| LjL | relatively, of course, since we are the big city in the middle of it | 02:55 |
| LjL | but before, we had lower prevalence than the rest of Lombardy | 02:55 |
| LjL | now it's the reverse, about half the cases in all Lombardy are from Milan | 02:56 |
| LjL | despite Milan only making up 3 million out of around 10 million people in Lombardy | 02:56 |
| LjL | in fact there are rumors of a Milan-specific lockdown being a possibility, not sure how substantiated | 02:56 |
| ryouma | less urban first then urban? | 02:56 |
| ryouma | in the us it is said it is urban first then less urban | 02:57 |
| LjL | it seems kind of the reverse here | 02:57 |
| LjL | even in Bergamo, i think the most badly hit municipalities were not the city of Bergamo itself | 02:58 |
| LjL | while *now*, Milan, Naples, Rome, Turin, are all badly hit, and perhaps to a lesser extent Venice, Florence | 02:58 |
| LjL | so it's hitting all the big (Italy-size-big) cities now | 02:58 |
| LjL | https://lab24.ilsole24ore.com/coronavirus/en/#box_3 | 03:00 |
| de-facto | damn ist steeper than the first peak it looks | 03:10 |
| de-facto | i still dont get why they use cummulative graphs though | 03:10 |
| LjL | de-facto, well you have to adjust for the fact we had less testing so it couldn't be as steep even if it was in reality | 03:17 |
| LjL | but i suspect it really is steeper anyway | 03:17 |
| LjL | you can get non-cumulative in other graphs of theirs, but not that one | 03:17 |
| LjL | like, the very first graph (well, the very second graph, it being the non-cumulative version of the first) | 03:17 |
| de-facto | yeah testing may vary indeed, thats why i was for that 1% random sampling idea | 03:18 |
| de-facto | you never really know how much comes from testing, how much from targeting and how much from infection otherwise | 03:18 |
| LjL | you know how full the hospitals are | 03:19 |
| de-facto | how full are they there? | 03:19 |
| LjL | de-facto, ICUs are at 20%, which is a lot when things are growing exponentially, but the regular non-ICU beds are pretty much already all taken | 03:20 |
| LjL | in the critical areas, anyway, Milan etc | 03:20 |
| LjL | and perhaps also critically, they've given up on contact tracing entirely in milan | 03:21 |
| LjL | they cannot keep up with testing at all | 03:21 |
| de-facto | oh thats bad they should continue tracing at all costs, maybe alter strategy to cluster targeting but not give up | 03:22 |
| de-facto | ICU are at 20% of what? | 03:22 |
| LjL | capacity | 03:22 |
| de-facto | so 20% of all ICU beds are still unoccupied? usually they are not exclusively used for COVID though, e.g. in germany they are half full also but only a little of that is covid | 03:24 |
| LjL | de-facto, no, 20% are occupied. right now the critical part is normal beds | 03:26 |
| LjL | but... we know that a certain amount of the normal beds will need ICU later, so it's just a matter of time for ICU to also be at capacity | 03:26 |
| de-facto | oh so there is 5x more space for covid in icus available then? | 03:27 |
| LjL | i believe so, although i don't know if they're counting just *beds and equipment* or also the personnel needed for running them, since as i told you, that's what's missing the most | 03:27 |
| LjL | but people who simply need to be in a hospital bed with oxygen and monitoring... are no longer finding space | 03:28 |
| de-facto | damn thats not good but still at least ICUs are not full yet, so there still is time to avoid that from happening | 03:29 |
| de-facto | btw this is the situation for germany, they have a register for that https://www.intensivregister.de/#/intensivregister?tab=kartenansicht | 03:29 |
| ryouma | 20% ic seems low in the context of az which i guess having so many private hospitals tries to keep utilization high or ... it was propaganda that 80+ percent was not bad. | 03:29 |
| de-facto | roughly 1118 in ICUs 484 on ventilator but both on exponential raise | 03:30 |
| de-facto | so currently COVID occupies 14% of available ICU capacity in germany | 03:32 |
| de-facto | but as i said on exponential raise unfortunately | 03:32 |
| LjL | ryouma, keep in mind we created a LOT of beds and bought a LOT of ventilators between spring and now | 03:32 |
| LjL | and created hospitals from places that weren't hospitals before | 03:32 |
| LjL | main problem now is doctors don't grow on trees | 03:32 |
| ryouma | you can ship them around i hope | 03:34 |
| LjL | %tr <it In Italia, alla data del 31 dicembre 2019, prima della pandemia di coronavirus, i posti letto in terapia intensiva erano 5.179. A causa dell’emergenza sanitaria sono stati creati nuovi posti letto aggiuntivi: il decreto Rilancio ne ha programmati 3.553, molti dei quali sono in fase di completamento. Il totale, nel giro di poco tempo, dovrebbe arrivare a 8.732. Per ora, secondo gli ultimi dati disponibili i posti letto effettivi sono 6.628, ma i | 03:34 |
| LjL | n continuo aumento | 03:34 |
| psiborg1 | The covid-19 equipment was bought in 2018 according to worldbank logs which were altered in september | 03:34 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: In Italy, as of December 31, 2019, before the coronavirus pandemic, there were 5,179 beds in intensive care. Due to the health emergency, new additional beds have been created: the Relaunch decree has planned 3,553, many of which are being completed. The total is expected to reach 8,732 in a short time. For now, according to the latest available data, [... want %more?] | 03:34 |
| LjL | psiborg1, oh lord i'm not in the mood for conspiracy theorists. which covid-19 equipment are you even talking about? which country? | 03:35 |
| psiborg1 | Several countries - Ive mentioned a fact youve called fact theory | 03:36 |
| LjL | %tr In Lombardia i posti letto in terapia intensiva pre-Covid erano 861. Con il decreto Rilancio n. 34/2020 sono stati programmati altri 585 posti letto. Alla data del 9 ottobre, contando quelli già stabilizzati del piano Arcuri, il numero dei posti letto è arrivato a 983. | 03:36 |
| LjL | %tr <it In Lombardia i posti letto in terapia intensiva pre-Covid erano 861. Con il decreto Rilancio n. 34/2020 sono stati programmati altri 585 posti letto. Alla data del 9 ottobre, contando quelli già stabilizzati del piano Arcuri, il numero dei posti letto è arrivato a 983. | 03:36 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, English to English: In Lombardia i posti letto in terapia intensiva pre-Covid erano 861. Con il decreto Rilancio n. 34/2020 sono stati programmati altri 585 posti letto. Alla data del 9 ottobre, contando quelli già stabilizzati del piano Arcuri, il numero dei posti letto è arrivato a 983. (Google) | 03:36 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: In Lombardy there were 861 beds in pre-Covid intensive care. A further 585 beds have been planned with The Relaunch Decree No. 34/2020. As of 9 October, counting those already stabilized in the Arcuri plan, the number of beds has reached 983. (MyMemory) [... want %more?] | 03:37 |
| LjL | this doesn't sound impressive... | 03:37 |
| LjL | psiborg1, okay evidence of this fact please? | 03:37 |
| ryouma | i wnt to know why japan has so many more beds per population than many more countries. why is there such a difference. | 03:37 |
| ryouma | (regular beds presumably) | 03:37 |
| LjL | ryouma, Germany is also pretty high | 03:38 |
| LjL | although i confuse now regular ones with ICU ones, numbers i've read months ago are getting hazy | 03:38 |
| psiborg1 | Like hell your getting evidence. Its on archive.org but facts are a conspiracy theory? Youre a loon | 03:38 |
| LjL | and you're quieted | 03:38 |
| ryouma | germany is best for icu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_hospital_beds | 03:39 |
| LjL | if you're asked for evidence for a claim that is at least controversial, provide it. if it's on archive.org, provide the relevant URLs. also don't call people names. | 03:40 |
| LjL | this for the next time you get unquieted, which according to my current mood is "not soon" | 03:40 |
| de-facto | its not such a big difference anyhow, in an exponential increase it only is worth a small duration in time, what really does matter is to use that window in time to regain control about the cause and that is prevent infections | 03:43 |
| ryouma | for a pandemic like this, yes | 03:44 |
| LjL | de-facto, well gov.it doesn't want to full lockdown, and has only taken meek measures and told regions "eeeeeh you can do more things if you want, maybe" | 03:44 |
| LjL | so a full lockdown will probably only happen after the useful limit has already been passed | 03:45 |
| de-facto | exactly as in germany i am quite unhappy with this | 03:45 |
| LjL | and curfews are a bit silly | 03:45 |
| LjL | at least as implemented in italy | 03:45 |
| LjL | so i think they will do more bad than good | 03:45 |
| de-facto | they tried to force close of all nightlife at 23:00 but courts directly nullified that in Berlin afaik, not sure about other states | 03:46 |
| de-facto | some things i just cant understand even when i try really hard | 03:47 |
| LjL | hmm courts have also undone things in Spain | 03:47 |
| LjL | i mean some measures are probably quite unconstitutional | 03:48 |
| LjL | one would just have hoped that the courts would declare them so *after* this thing ends | 03:48 |
| de-facto | yes its good that they are able to do that, but i dont understand the rationale behind their actions | 03:48 |
| LjL | the curfew at 23:00 here has meant that Naples is rioting tonight | 03:49 |
| LjL | and also, nightlife will just be "compressed" so that it can end at 23:00 | 03:49 |
| LjL | which will mean... MORE people packed together until 23:00 | 03:49 |
| LjL | i could understand a curfew at 21, that would pretty much prevent it | 03:49 |
| LjL | buuuut that wasn't okay with restaurants so they didn't do it | 03:49 |
| de-facto | maybe they should force close all such locations and prohibit alcohol completely | 03:49 |
| LjL | alcohol consumption is prohibited in Lombardy after 18:00 unless you're seated | 03:50 |
| LjL | which is also a bit ridiculous | 03:50 |
| LjL | you cannot buy alcohol after 18:00 in supermarkets | 03:50 |
| LjL | but if you're seated in a pub? yeah, sure, you can | 03:50 |
| de-facto | yeah and if people could buy it they would just do party at home then instead | 03:50 |
| de-facto | even more difficult to control | 03:50 |
| LjL | and i bet many pubs don't really *care* whether you're seated | 03:50 |
| de-facto | indeed | 03:51 |
| LjL | pubs have actually been telling people not to take photographs with their phones because if they ended up on social media police could close the place | 03:51 |
| de-facto | damn there too? i heard same story about clubs requiring their guest to tape phones for that reason | 03:52 |
| LjL | okay no i said "pubs" generically but i don't know which kind of locations have been shown to do this | 03:53 |
| de-facto | i thought that is either completely nuts or maybe also a story to denunciate them | 03:54 |
| LjL | i didn't heard they actually asked guests to take their cameras though, "just" please don't take pictures and post them on social media | 03:54 |
| de-facto | anyhow in my opinion they should be force closed and given the rent so they can somewhat survive | 03:54 |
| de-facto | its just not the time for such things at all | 03:54 |
| LjL | de-facto, the PM quite clearly stated yes, we'll help business, but we can't give "money like it's raining, like last spring" | 03:55 |
| LjL | so if their idea of giving money like it's raining is last spring, well | 03:55 |
| LjL | i don't expect much money coming | 03:55 |
| de-facto | well if incidence keeps raising like that it will be much more expensive than only the rent of a few clubs | 03:56 |
| LjL | also they don't want to take the money from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Stability_Mechanism because it's "stigmatized" | 03:56 |
| de-facto | whats the meaning of "stigmatized" in that regard? | 03:57 |
| de-facto | does it require them to sell their soul? | 03:57 |
| LjL | that it's associated with the money being given to Greece in 2008, which many people in the EU viewed as undeserved | 03:57 |
| de-facto | ah i see | 03:58 |
| LjL | also it comes with a set of strict requirements (basically, your government stops governing and EU people start governing most financial things instead), but my understanding is that in this case after some negotiations those requirements were waived, and instead, it was agreed that the money could only be used for healthcare improvements. which sounds fine to me. but mainly the Five Star party still don't want to take it | 03:58 |
| de-facto | well at last if they see it as option when they really do need it it may provide some sort of safety hopefully | 04:00 |
| de-facto | to be honest i hoped for a more coordinated containment approach in Europe, like that they would agree on a common strategy and help out each others more | 04:02 |
| de-facto | but now i see that they are not even able to agree with the federal states inside of germany | 04:02 |
| de-facto | or only agree on the very least common denominator, not nearly enough at all | 04:03 |
| LjL | de-facto, when the ICUs in Lombardy were full, they only managed to move a ridiculously small amount of patients to ICUs in other regions. but as a matter of fact, a considerable proportion was transferred to Germany instead. my understanding is that the same mechanism called "cross"-something was used for the inter-region transfers as for the transfers to germany | 04:03 |
| LjL | so you could see that as the EU working as a country i suppose, but also not very well | 04:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 'It is terrifying': Europe braces for lengthy battle with COVID → https://is.gd/HG7wWC | 04:04 |
| de-facto | it would be a chance to improve coordination and organization as well as solidarity and agreement for installing well designed biosafety systems and containment strategies | 04:04 |
| de-facto | yes there is hope for such mechanisms but my hope would be that this crisis would be used to form more strong bonds and build upon those very early collaborations to form something more stable and useful to all participants | 04:06 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, you there? | 04:06 |
| tinwhiskers | yep | 04:06 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, can you have a look at ##coronalinks? | 04:06 |
| de-facto | its a rule of network theory, in a network with n nodes the network itself is worth n^2 to each of its nodes | 04:07 |
| LjL | de-facto, maybe the EU did things in the background that we didn't see, but, *because* we didn't see them... i think most people now are going to consider the EU as less close to them than they thought it was (and many were already thinking it was too far removed) | 04:07 |
| tinwhiskers | LjL: sorted? | 04:08 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, probably! | 04:08 |
| tinwhiskers | heh. ok | 04:08 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, i'd have pointed out to him that it just isn't a discussion channel, but then he'd have been in ##coronavirus just getting banned one more time, soooo | 04:08 |
| LjL | (not sure how he managed to find one but not the other) | 04:09 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, heh, if he PMs you enjoy trying to get the actual archive.org links that prove his claim. i mean, maybe he's actually got something interesting on his hands and is just too rude to convey it | 04:10 |
| tinwhiskers | that's not impossible | 04:11 |
| LjL | oh, he *was* in -vox, yet said nothing there | 04:11 |
| LjL | fun | 04:11 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: U.S. reports more than 83,000 new coronavirus cases, biggest one-day increase on record (10366 votes) | https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1319774472250032128?s=21 | https://redd.it/jgxs6y | 04:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +17568 cases (now 287700), +70 deaths (now 10658) since a day ago — France: +10508 cases (now 1.1 million) since 2 hours ago — US: +1808 cases (now 8.7 million), +5 deaths (now 229284) since 2 hours ago — Netherlands: +565 cases (now 272966), +11 deaths (now 6984) since 2 hours ago | 04:24 |
| LjL | always good news from belgium | 04:24 |
| LjL | de-facto, another article explained more clearly: 15% of ICU in Italy are taken up by COVID patients, but the 100% that is taken from includes beds hosting non-COVID patients. the government has set aside 30% of all ICU as "dedicated to COVID", so 15% being taken means that actually 50% of the ones "dedicated to COVID" are taken up | 04:31 |
| LjL | that is better of course in some regions, and worse in others | 04:31 |
| LjL | the worst region has 28% occupied | 04:31 |
| LjL | Lombardy is around 15% | 04:31 |
| de-facto | in understand, its like that in all countries, roughly half or even more are taken by usual patients but then covid usage of icus is on fast raise but other causes also still happen (e.g. accidents or such) | 04:33 |
| de-facto | i think italy and germany still may be behind other countries a few weks | 04:35 |
| de-facto | weeks | 04:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: It Was the Worst Day of the Pandemic. Until Now. → https://is.gd/Sbztxo | 04:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Thailand’s playboy king secretly rushed to hospital for 2am Covid test after bodyguard tests positive → https://is.gd/vXoA7W | 05:22 |
| LjL | ryouma, de-facto: i found the article i had originally read that involves germinal centers https://www.virology.ws/2020/10/22/an-explanation-for-the-poor-short-lived-antibodies-produced-during-serious-sars-cov-2-infection/ | 05:31 |
| LjL | it explains in a bit more detail although it was a bit over my head anyway | 05:31 |
| de-facto | nice, thank you :) | 05:37 |
| de-facto | i think i am gonna have to read the paper tomorrow though | 05:37 |
| LjL | yeah in particular it's the paper that it links to, https://www.cell.com/cell/pdf/S0092-8674(20)31067-9.pdf | 05:38 |
| LjL | (which isn't loading for me right now) | 05:38 |
| de-facto | wget loads it though | 05:38 |
| de-facto | had the same issue | 05:38 |
| ryouma | LjL: thanks that helps (only read the virology one). my tnf alpha has tested at 10.5. i hope chronic high levels do not affect germinal centers. | 05:43 |
| LjL | i really have no idea, this gets too technical for me | 05:44 |
| ryouma | the nature paper it links to as a possible biomarker for severe covid says il-6 and tnf alpha | 05:45 |
| LjL | well aren't you always quite the lucky one | 05:45 |
| ryouma | my il-6 is 7.0 | 05:45 |
| ryouma | i also wonder if allergies (extremely dusty, moldy environment) raise both of those | 05:47 |
| ryouma | i also wonder if long covid has been tested for those two plus il-8 | 05:49 |
| ryouma | and if they are high in a subset | 05:49 |
| LjL | %papsers il-8 long covid | 05:50 |
| LjL | %papers il-8 long covid | 05:50 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, 10 papers: Role of interleukin 6 as a predictive factor for a severe course of Covid-19: retrospective data analysis of patients from a Long-term Care Facility during Covid-19 Outbreak by Peter Sabaka et al, published on 2020-07-13 at [u'https://doi.org/10.21203/rs.3.rs-42503/v2', u'https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-42503/v2.pdf'] [... want %more?] | 05:50 |
| LjL | %papers il-6 "long covid" | 05:50 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: An error occurred while searching. | 05:50 |
| LjL | %papers tnf alpha | 05:50 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, 9 papers: Observational Study of Metformin and Risk of Mortality in Patients Hospitalized with Covid-19 by Carolyn Bramante et al, published on 2020-06-20 at http://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.06.19.20135095 [... want %more?] | 05:50 |
| LjL | %more | 05:50 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, [...] absenteeism is inappropriate. Freudenthal correctly outlines the risks, posed by false-negative results, of advising potentially infectious HCWs to return to work. Moreover, staffing levels are currently far less problematic within UK health-care settings than during the peak of the pandemic. → https://paste.ee/p/DACee | 05:50 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, [...] The Endothelial Dysfunction and Pyroptosis Driving the SARS-CoV-2 Immune-Thrombosis by Seigo Nagashima et al, published on 2020-06-19 at http://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.06.17.20133124 [...] → https://paste.ee/p/B2WsS | 05:50 |
| ryouma | (i haven't figured out how to get pdfs to display in reverse video or with a non-white bg, and can't look at them at night) | 05:51 |
| de-facto | ryouma, if you are using Evince (the Gnome standard viewer) try Ctrl + I (for invert) | 05:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: NAPLES: riots against the lockdown. Violent clashes against the police with the cry of "freedom". → https://is.gd/OKwfgS | 05:57 |
| LjL | morons | 05:57 |
| LjL | but also, flagged, article is not in english | 06:00 |
| ryouma | de-facto: thanks. i do use evince (without gnome), and could in principle close eyes really tightly while it comes up and then c-l and hope that it works, but i was trying to find somthing that would make it default. | 06:05 |
| de-facto | i think it remembers it (either per pdf or in general) | 06:09 |
| de-facto | damn damn damn | 06:09 |
| de-facto | +14714 new infections in Germany thats a LOT :((( | 06:10 |
| de-facto | almost all of NRW, BW and BY are red | 06:10 |
| de-facto | oh my where is the lockdown | 06:10 |
| de-facto | we need it right now, things are completely out of control | 06:11 |
| de-facto | actually we should be in lockdown from last Sunday already, but where is it??!! | 06:14 |
| Jigsy | %cases UK | 06:17 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In United Kingdom, there have been 830998 confirmed cases (1.3% of the population) and 45712 deaths (5.5% of cases) as of 12 hours ago. 31.2 million tests were performed (2.7% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 06:18 |
| ryouma | hmm us is twice as bad as eu. i thought they were about the same. | 06:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Fears mount as South Korea probes cause behind 36 people's deaths after flu vaccination → https://is.gd/vAwUnP | 06:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 'It is terrifying': Europe braces for lengthy battle with COVID → https://is.gd/VlnnSx | 06:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Worldwide coronavirus cases cross 41.99 million, death toll at 1,140,145 → https://is.gd/NhguHH | 07:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: North Korea says China dust could spread COVID-19, warns people to stay inside → https://is.gd/mEFZZV | 07:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Coronavirus updates: AstraZeneca vaccine trials resume in US; more than 71K daily cases in US, first time since July → https://is.gd/OeGyBr | 07:50 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Lombardy, Italy: +4916 cases (now 143645), +7 deaths (now 17159) since a day ago — France: +10667 cases (now 1.1 million), +14 deaths (now 34522) since 3 hours ago — Netherlands: +2508 cases (now 275474), +11 deaths (now 6995) since 3 hours ago — United Kingdom: +1506 cases (now 832504) since 14 hours ago | 07:55 |
| derpadmin | %cases canada | 08:37 |
| Brainstorm | derpadmin: In Canada, there have been 212962 confirmed cases (0.6% of the population) and 9913 deaths (4.7% of cases) as of 47 minutes ago. 9.5 million tests were performed (2.2% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.2% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 5.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data. | 08:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US election wrap, October 24: White House, US Capitol prepare for Inauguration of new president amid pandemic → https://is.gd/5Au8e0 | 08:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: WHO’s Tedros says countries on “dangerous track” in pandemic → https://is.gd/rvyahL | 09:09 |
| Meower | lmfao | 09:44 |
| Meower | ##chat "free speech meme" and "asshole" | 09:44 |
| Meower | not compatible because it was assholes that wouldn't let me speak freely about things that weren't considered in the "asshole" category | 09:45 |
| Meower | :D | 09:45 |
| Meower | #ircdoesntcareaboutblacklives | 09:45 |
| Meower | #unlesstheyarehoes | 09:45 |
| Meower | hey there | 09:46 |
| Meower | are you done with the black hoe that was just controlling some of the mods here or the brothers dealing her around the gang? | 09:46 |
| Meower | as it seems to be no true female unity here | 09:47 |
| Meower | just more like a competition between females of which one gets the males the hardest at the thought of them | 09:47 |
| Meower | which is kind of gross | 09:47 |
| Meower | and not saying that black lives matter at all | 09:47 |
| Meower | :D | 09:47 |
| Meower | or are you done with the white racist one that hates all women of color because they have better proportions statistically? | 09:48 |
| kiwi_52 | relativism 101 | 09:51 |
| koleno159 | hi | 10:01 |
| kiwi_52 | o/ | 10:03 |
| Meower | oh | 10:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +911 cases (now 8.7 million), +8 deaths (now 229292) since 6 hours ago | 10:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Austria’s postal service is printing Covid-themed stamps on toilet paper → https://is.gd/zGQITL | 10:28 |
| drytrumpet2 | plot Italy differemce confirmed cases https://is.gd/8j3LAr5 | 10:33 |
| drytrumpet2 | O.K again then, plot Italy, difference confirmed cases https://svgur.com/s/Qr7 | 10:39 |
| Meower | huh | 10:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Poland’s President Duda tests positive for coronavirus → https://is.gd/UCyCcv | 10:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Biden pledges free Covid vaccine for 'everyone' in US if elected: Democrat Joe Biden said Friday that if elected president he would mandate COVID-19 vaccines be free for all Americans, part of a national strategy to "get ahead" of the coronavirus. → https://is.gd/FyzgwL | 11:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLE INFRASTRUTTURE E DEI TRASPORTI - DECRETO 13 ottobre 2020: Decadenza dell'autorizzazione rilasciata all'organismo INNOVHUB -Stazioni sperimentali per l'industria (Area stazione sperimentalecarta, cartoni e paste per carta - SSCCP) in Milano, con conseguentecancellazione dall'elenco degli [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/EzKluP | 12:10 |
| bolovanos | ola | 12:43 |
| bolovanos | de-facto, btw - ad yesterdays need for proper test picking most likely worsening patient - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(20)30402-3/fulltext | 12:55 |
| bolovanos | it has been 2 weeks since publish so maybe it was already here | 12:58 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: PTSD symptoms among health workers and public service providers during the COVID-19 outbreak (80 votes) | https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0241032 | https://redd.it/jh30z7 | 13:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Czech health minister set to resign after violating his own Covid guidelines → https://is.gd/YVyxUS | 13:18 |
| bolovanos | https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(20)30402-3/fulltext | 13:19 |
| bolovanos | strange bot does not take it | 13:20 |
| bolovanos | maybe it was already here | 13:20 |
| bolovanos | we are in press even in india... | 13:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +4257 cases (now 8.8 million), +25 deaths (now 229317) since 3 hours ago | 13:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: School children seem unlikely to fuel Coronavirus surges, scientists say → https://is.gd/kWyHDd | 14:15 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Smell and taste changes are early indicators of the COVID-19 pandemic and political decision effectiveness (80 votes) | https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-18963-y?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=organic&utm_campaign=NGMT_USG_JC01_GL_NRJournals | https://redd.it/jh10a3 | 14:47 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +3448 cases (now 8.8 million), +46 deaths (now 229363) since an hour ago | 15:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US sets coronavirus infection record; deaths near 224,000 → https://is.gd/GqsHXz | 15:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Post - October 24 | Questions, images, videos, comments, unconfirmed reports, theories, suggestions → https://is.gd/Zd8tGl | 16:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: U.S. reports more than 83,000 coronavirus cases, record daily total, as experts warn of difficult winter: The U.S. reported more than 83,700 new Covid-19 cases on Friday, passing the last record seen in mid-July, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. → https://is.gd/bUyTHg | 16:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Poland president tests positive for COVID-19 → https://is.gd/uJsqfn | 17:15 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +19640 cases (now 504509), +151 deaths (now 37210) since a day ago — US: +8861 cases (now 8.8 million), +134 deaths (now 229497) since 2 hours ago — Netherlands: +5578 cases (now 281052), +32 deaths (now 7019) since 9 hours ago | 17:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +347 cases (now 8.8 million) since 18 minutes ago | 17:37 |
| kreyren | > 2020 novel bunyavirus outbreak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_novel_bunyavirus_outbreak -- What?! | 17:59 |
| kreyren | seems like fake though | 18:00 |
| genera | like Chikken Gunya | 18:00 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Dr. Fauci says: ‘If people are not wearing masks, then maybe we should be mandating,’ as new U.S. COVID-19 cases hit 85,000 (10281 votes) | https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dr-fauci-says-if-people-are-not-wearing-masks-then-maybe-we-should-be-mandating-as-new-us-covid-19-cases-hit-85000-2020-10-24 | https://redd.it/jh7d3k | 18:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +21506 cases (now 854010) since 10 hours ago — US: +1736 cases (now 8.8 million), +24 deaths (now 229521) since 35 minutes ago — Canada: +765 cases (now 213727), +12 deaths (now 9920) since 10 hours ago | 18:07 |
| LjL | kreyren: https://lymediseaseassociation.org/news/sfts-virus-outbreak-in-china-from-ticks/ | 18:09 |
| kreyren | LjL, thanks | 18:10 |
| kreyren | LjL, they said that 37 people got it and 7 people died? so that's 2.59% death rate so far? | 18:14 |
| kreyren | any info about the patients? | 18:14 |
| LjL | Uh, check your math again there | 18:14 |
| kreyren | 37 / 100 * 7 ? | 18:15 |
| kreyren | checks to me O.o | 18:15 |
| LjL | 7 is about one fifth of 37 | 18:15 |
| kreyren | ah right | 18:15 |
| kreyren | wait what | 18:16 |
| LjL | And I don't know what that formula you gave is | 18:16 |
| LjL | But the result is not 2.59 | 18:16 |
| kreyren | LjL, i though that's how you calculate the death rate O.o by calculating the percentage of fatalities in relation to infected? | 18:17 |
| kreyren | https://i.imgur.com/f9jcgw2.png eh.. ? | 18:17 |
| kreyren | am i retarded x.x | 18:17 |
| LjL | kreyren: what that formula gives you is a number between 0 and 1. Just like 37/100 is 0.37 but that means 37%, the number 2.59 there means 25.9%, not 2.59% | 18:19 |
| kreyren | 37 / 100 defines one percent of 37 and that multiplied by 7 gives 7% ? | 18:20 |
| LjL | What, no | 18:20 |
| kreyren | o.o | 18:20 |
| LjL | Make your confusion go away by forgetting about formulas you don't understand and seeing that 7*5 is 35, which is just short of 37, which means more than one out of five patient has died | 18:21 |
| LjL | Surely one out of five is 20%, not 2% | 18:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +3223 cases (now 8.8 million), +42 deaths (now 229563) since 19 minutes ago — Canada: +321 cases (now 214048) since 19 minutes ago | 18:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Art and Culture: Coronavirus shadows darken Dussehra, leaves Ravana effigy business on last legs → https://is.gd/awRoHy | 18:23 |
| kreyren | LjL, that would be one out of 5.285 which translates to 2.59% ? | 18:26 |
| LjL | No | 18:27 |
| kreyren | ah wait | 18:27 |
| LjL | One out of about five is obviously around 20% not 2% | 18:27 |
| LjL | You're an order of magnitude off and I'm at a loss understanding how that could be | 18:28 |
| LjL | Forget the maths and just use your fingers | 18:28 |
| kreyren | x.x | 18:28 |
| LjL | 20 fits in 100 five times. 1 fits in 5 five times. Ergo 1 out of 5 is 20% | 18:28 |
| kreyren | true | 18:29 |
| LjL | kreyren: honestly I'm very confused what 37/100*7 would be. Where did you get it from again? 7 is the people who died, right? So it's a proportion of the total patients. So it should be at the numerator of the total patients. In other words, 7/37, which is about 0.19. That's a ratio, then if you want a percentage from that it is just 19% (0.19*100) | 18:33 |
| kreyren | LjL, I am taking 37 as 100% and from that deviding by 100 to get 1% which is 0.37 and that multiplied by 7 to give me 7% | 18:34 |
| kreyren | ah wait | 18:34 |
| kreyren | i am not calculating 7% of 37 .. | 18:34 |
| kreyren | >.< | 18:34 |
| LjL | I don't know what to answer to that because it makes no logical sense to me | 18:35 |
| kreyren | so 37/7 = 5.285% right | 18:35 |
| LjL | Good lord no | 18:35 |
| LjL | Read what I wrote | 18:35 |
| LjL | I just wrote that division the exact other way around | 18:35 |
| LjL | If I write 7/37 and you reply with writing 37/7 I don't know if we're even speaking the same language | 18:36 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Seroprevalence of anti‐SARS‐CoV‐2 antibodies in COVID‐19 patients and healthy volunteers up to six months post disease onset (80 votes) | https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/eji.202048970 | https://redd.it/jh5wdw | 18:36 |
| kreyren | i didn't read the message when i wrote it sorry! | 18:36 |
| kreyren | checking | 18:36 |
| kreyren | LjL, yep makes sense to me now >.< sorry | 18:37 |
| LjL | A percentage is just a sometimes convenient (not very this time, apparently) way to write a ratio. 7/37 is the ratio, which as a decimal number is around 0.19. If you will that is roughly the probability for one patient to die. So out of 100 patients? 19. That's what 19% is about (of course you can't conclude that's the actual probability out of just 7 deaths but it's just an approximation to to explain it: if you got it 100 times, you'd probably die somewhere | 18:40 |
| LjL | around 19 times) | 18:40 |
| LjL | I'm not very mathematically inclined myself so someone else may have a more understandable explanation. | 18:41 |
| kreyren | ye i got confused because CFR of covid is calculated as deaths devided by confirmed times 100 according to WHO x.x | 18:42 |
| kreyren | - https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/estimating-mortality-from-covid-19 | 18:42 |
| kreyren | wait i am confusing that again and swapped the death for confirmed >.< | 18:43 |
| kiwi_52 | hi LjL | 18:48 |
| LjL | Deaths divided by confirmed, result times 100, is exactly what I just said | 18:48 |
| LjL | Hi | 18:48 |
| LjL | It is 7/37, times 100 | 18:48 |
| python479 | o/ | 18:48 |
| LjL | Which is definitely not 2.59 | 18:48 |
| python479 | how is it going | 18:48 |
| LjL | Oh hey | 18:49 |
| LjL | Pretty shit thanks | 18:49 |
| kreyren | LjL, yep and i was doing confirmed devided by deaths which is wrong O.o | 18:49 |
| python479 | yeah it seems I always come when it's shit | 18:49 |
| LjL | Relatives are infected and I am depressed | 18:49 |
| python479 | maybe i'm the problem | 18:49 |
| python479 | you sis ? | 18:49 |
| LjL | Maybe it's just always shit | 18:49 |
| python479 | your* | 18:49 |
| LjL | No, less close relatives, aunt and cousin | 18:49 |
| python479 | aight | 18:49 |
| python479 | no drama yet i hope | 18:50 |
| python479 | I assume they're simply home, not at the hospital | 18:50 |
| LjL | For now they just have fever | 18:50 |
| python479 | aight | 18:50 |
| python479 | be strong | 18:50 |
| LjL | It's been a week but she told us yesterday since she got tested positive yesterday | 18:50 |
| LjL | But I'm also just feeling shit regardless | 18:50 |
| kreyren | How many people were infected day 1 on covid-19 and how many of them died? i am unable to find that data >.> | 18:51 |
| LjL | And going ragey on kreyren (sorry kreyren) is the only emotion I seem to get out of myself successfully | 18:51 |
| kreyren | LjL, so my stupidity is helping with your depression? ^-^ | 18:52 |
| Spec | python479: and how are you? | 18:52 |
| python479 | nice of you to keep the LjL functionning kreyren | 18:52 |
| LjL | kreyren: what information would that give you? | 18:52 |
| python479 | hello Spec | 18:52 |
| LjL | kreyren: that could be one way of seeing it I suppose | 18:52 |
| kreyren | LjL, allegedly the https://www.news.com.au/technology/novel-bunyavirus-reemerges-in-china/news-story/b833406e5b2b391aac62dc52db554e64 reported 60+ people infected and 7 died i wanted to compare that to day 1 of covid or ideally the first 60 cases | 18:52 |
| python479 | i'm a mess, I had a 3 month job, it's over and family is harassing me | 18:53 |
| LjL | kreyren: but why? The longer it continues the more, not the less, precise you are able to get | 18:53 |
| kreyren | excluding the patient health as we don't have the information to bunyavirus | 18:53 |
| python479 | on the covid side no issues though | 18:53 |
| Spec | python479: what happened to your 3 month job? :( | 18:53 |
| python479 | it was a limited time contract I was ok not to stay | 18:53 |
| Spec | ah | 18:53 |
| kreyren | LjL, because i had reserves accounting for another 8 months and if bunyavirus is a concern i would like to prepare for it | 18:53 |
| Spec | and family is harassing you to get new job? or just harassing for fun? | 18:53 |
| LjL | kreyren: this virus has been around since at least 2009 | 18:54 |
| kreyren | LjL, but allegedly it spikes again in china now? | 18:54 |
| LjL | kreyren: it looks very nasty and maybe slowly over time it will transfer over to European and american ticks | 18:54 |
| python479 | it's just toxic family making me go crazy and thus harder to find another job (which I want but I need to have normal morale) | 18:54 |
| kreyren | ye that's what i am afraid of | 18:54 |
| python479 | Spec parents are quite unstable so it's a chronic disease, the job thing is almost an excuse | 18:55 |
| python479 | how is it on your side spec ? | 18:55 |
| Spec | we are staying sane and pretty much isolated | 18:55 |
| LjL | kreyren: but if it only slowly crawled through east Asia since 2009 (probably earlier), it's likely not an immediate concern | 18:55 |
| Spec | python479: i throw myself into work to ignore reality i suspect :( | 18:55 |
| kreyren | LjL, true, but i would like to have more info in case it is a concern O.o | 18:55 |
| kreyren | especially for me who used to travel quite a lot and assuming that people also travel when there is no pandemic O.o | 18:56 |
| python479 | Spec at this point I believe it's a healthy thing, to an extent | 18:56 |
| python479 | what is it that you do ? (pardon my memory) | 18:56 |
| Spec | python479: my country is exhibiting some troubling trends, and showing some worrying signs | 18:56 |
| kreyren | LjL, also it apparently is not a hard thing to get box of ticks from china and then release that in europe for a bad actor | 18:57 |
| Spec | python479: i'm a cloud infrastructure engineer | 18:57 |
| Spec | so i just poke buttons all day | 18:57 |
| Spec | i'm not on the k8s team, but i do use k8s as a user sometimes | 18:58 |
| python479 | so how is the vaccine side of things ? | 18:59 |
| LjL | python479, well that's his job now but he used to work for the mafia | 19:00 |
| LjL | however that's all in the past | 19:00 |
| Spec | ^ | 19:00 |
| python479 | as long as you confessed all your crimes | 19:00 |
| jacklsw | wow some story you got there | 19:01 |
| Spec | python479: what work do you do, that is contract oriented? | 19:02 |
| kreyren | hmm apparently bunyavirus has CFR of 12~30% based on the provided data which would fit in the current assumed 19% | 19:02 |
| Spec | bunyavirus is a cuter name than the rona, that's for sure | 19:02 |
| kreyren | but i like rona~ she's just causing me a fever and headache~ | 19:03 |
| python479 | Spec i'm recovering so I take any gig without skills. That last job was assisting clerk at an auxiliary court room | 19:03 |
| Spec | oh, neat | 19:03 |
| python479 | on paper | 19:03 |
| Spec | any interesting cases or was it dull? | 19:03 |
| python479 | it was a very odd place | 19:03 |
| python479 | dull as f. | 19:03 |
| Spec | :( | 19:03 |
| python479 | dull is no problem , but people were super dismayed by the whole system, so cranky / 20 | 19:04 |
| Spec | i'd rather be overworked for 10 hours than bored for 6 | 19:04 |
| LjL | kreyren, you're positive to covid? | 19:04 |
| python479 | Spec it's a subtle art | 19:04 |
| Spec | python479: the balance of life-work, i'm terrible at it | 19:04 |
| kreyren | and apparently bunyavirus is able to cause leucopenia and thrombocytopenia so i guess the treatment would be a blood transfusion O.o | 19:04 |
| python479 | LjL you managed to be covid free btw ? | 19:04 |
| LjL | python479, so far | 19:04 |
| python479 | Spec even intra work balance | 19:04 |
| kreyren | LjL, nope! Got exposed to it like 3 times and each time i had fever, headache and sore throat and it went away within day or two O.o | 19:05 |
| python479 | how is the hifi repair :) ? | 19:05 |
| Spec | i have a friend who is sick and in hospital, if you want some depression in your day | 19:05 |
| python479 | kreyren the black market is ready to sell your blood | 19:05 |
| LjL | kreyren, each time O.o | 19:05 |
| LjL | kreyren, did you get tested? | 19:05 |
| python479 | Spec tough | 19:05 |
| Spec | i think it's mostly unrelated, although there are some covid-related complications | 19:05 |
| LjL | python479, it has turned out that getting it repaired involves picking up the phone to make a call so nothing has happened | 19:06 |
| Spec | liver failure due to extreme alcoholism and drug abuse for a good decade | 19:06 |
| python479 | oh not covid ? | 19:06 |
| kreyren | LjL, like the first exposure was the worst i had high fever and sore throat day 3 and felt miserable, but then it went away and the two other exposures just gives me a fever and headache | 19:06 |
| Spec | python479: also covid | 19:06 |
| python479 | oh shit | 19:06 |
| Spec | although i thought he had mostly recovered/discharged from hospital | 19:06 |
| Spec | turns out he left hospital against dr order | 19:06 |
| kreyren | LjL, yep never tested positive | 19:06 |
| LjL | kreyren, it would be interesting if you had gotten tested, especially all three times, because how likely it is for people to get infected more than once is very unclear | 19:07 |
| LjL | kreyren, ah | 19:07 |
| Spec | so now he's back in icu afaik, waiting on something that will never come (liver transplant) | 19:07 |
| LjL | kreyren, maybe you could get an antibody test too | 19:07 |
| kreyren | even though i was literally kissing with a girl that had covid assuming that she was later tested positive and the other guy she kissed also was O.o | 19:07 |
| Spec | i wonder how many people will suffer long term health impacts due to covid without ever getting covid | 19:07 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Vitamin D Treatment Is Associated with Reduced Risk of Mortality in Patients with COVID-19: A Cross-Sectional Multi-Centre Observational Study (82 votes) | https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3690902 | https://redd.it/jha2cm | 19:07 |
| Spec | LjL: you need the D ^^ | 19:08 |
| LjL | kreyren, when did you get tested? when you had symptoms, or before? | 19:08 |
| kreyren | LjL, none wants to give me that x.x | 19:08 |
| kreyren | after i had symptoms like 5 days after | 19:08 |
| Spec | kreyren: did you stay isolated during this time where you were presumably positive | 19:08 |
| LjL | Spec, yes, these studies about vitamin D being helpful keep coming up, and yet no government is recommending routine supplementation | 19:08 |
| kreyren | Spec, yep | 19:08 |
| Spec | LjL: i wonder why | 19:08 |
| Spec | i thought vitamin d supplements weren't really seen as effective | 19:09 |
| kreyren | where i am a person who is wearing an industrial gas mask in the public | 19:09 |
| Spec | and the best vitamin d is made from exposing your fleshy bits to the glorious sun | 19:09 |
| kreyren | Spec, fwiw i am taking vitamin D suppliments weekly and i was sunbathing a lot | 19:09 |
| LjL | Spec, they may only be effective when you have a deficiency, however it's winter and most people have some degree of deficiency especially when stuck inside | 19:09 |
| Spec | kreyren: most industrial gas masks have outlet valves but ok | 19:09 |
| kreyren | Spec, yep for exhailing x.x | 19:09 |
| Spec | LjL: oh | 19:09 |
| Spec | kreyren: which fails to protect others | 19:09 |
| kreyren | Spec, i wasn't outside when i through that i might be positive O.o | 19:10 |
| LjL | Spec, that's something that some people think, but i don't think it's been established that supplemental vit D "doesn't work" compared to the sun-produced kind | 19:10 |
| Spec | LjL: yeah, dr said i was deficient in the D | 19:10 |
| Spec | kreyren: ah ok, excellent | 19:10 |
| LjL | Spec, well then i strongly recommend taking some | 19:10 |
| Spec | kreyren: a civic duty | 19:10 |
| Spec | LjL: i have some that i don't take, that's pretty close | 19:10 |
| LjL | Spec, actually the entrymsg in this channel, which i wrote, says no medical advice, so let me rephrase | 19:10 |
| LjL | Spec, if i were you which i'm obviously not and i were diagnosed with vit D deficiency one of my priorities re COVID would be to get some supplementa 1000 IU a day at least | 19:11 |
| Spec | haha | 19:11 |
| Spec | can you prove, without a doubt, that you are not me | 19:11 |
| LjL | ideally taken with some fats which reportedly increase absorption | 19:11 |
| kreyren | fwiw the first infection was when i was wearing a nano fibre respirator and walked around a guy that caught like crazy and was smoking i could smell the smoke behind the mask and then day after didn't felt good, day 2 same and day 3 got worse, but day 4 Ok again | 19:11 |
| Spec | or that I am not you? just how sane do you think you are | 19:11 |
| kreyren | got the gas mask after that x.x | 19:11 |
| LjL | Spec, less than you to enough of an extent that we seem distinctly different | 19:11 |
| Spec | LjL: i didn't realize that, do the vitamin d pills not come with ... fats or oils to help absorption? | 19:12 |
| kreyren | afaik vitamin D has to be dissolved in an oil so i usually take it with a milk | 19:12 |
| kreyren | in a form of D3 drops | 19:12 |
| LjL | Spec, yes, the one we have isn't a pill, it's drops that *are* in (rancid, terrible) oil | 19:12 |
| Spec | oh, mine are in big pills | 19:12 |
| Spec | i think, i haven't opened it in some months. maybe a year. :P | 19:12 |
| kreyren | ye i hated the pills so they gave me the drops :3 | 19:13 |
| Spec | kreyren: i think that's why i don't take them, large gross pills | 19:13 |
| LjL | Spec, pills are probably of somewhat more dubious efficacy, but for sure, it means i would take them with fats even more so | 19:13 |
| Spec | more dubious efficacy, nice | 19:13 |
| Spec | maybe i will just praise the sun like the lord commands of me | 19:13 |
| kreyren | Spec, ye doc didn't like me separating the pills in three parts by myself~ | 19:13 |
| LjL | Spec, yeah get drops, the terrible taste goes away if you have them with a spoonful of hazelnut cream, and it comes with fats too! | 19:13 |
| kreyren | so i got drops and was called a baby | 19:13 |
| Spec | kreyren: would you care to see a picture i took of it who must be praised? | 19:14 |
| LjL | Spec, someone has a site with all the papers they could find about vit D and COVID (obviously he's in favor) now https://vitamin-d-covid.shotwell.ca/ used to be on github but i just realized it's been moved | 19:14 |
| LjL | Spec, i haven't actually checked out their papers but if you think we don't think vit D helps with COVID i'm sure there's some that will say otherwise! | 19:15 |
| LjL | %papers vitamin d | 19:15 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: An error occurred while searching. | 19:15 |
| LjL | :( | 19:15 |
| Spec | An error! | 19:15 |
| Spec | say it isn't so! | 19:15 |
| LjL | well that can also mean it didn't find results, but that would be strange | 19:15 |
| kreyren | Spec, O.o | 19:16 |
| Spec | kreyren: https://specops.network/sun_20200101.png | 19:16 |
| kreyren | Spec, i want to be a doctor, but i don't like looking at sick people that i can't help enough~ | 19:16 |
| kreyren | ah sun | 19:16 |
| kreyren | lol | 19:16 |
| LjL | Spec, oh i think it probably doesn't like "D" as a term that's too short | 19:16 |
| LjL | Spec, sometimes the D is too short you see | 19:16 |
| kreyren | that's a great picture o.o how did you made it | 19:17 |
| Spec | yes, although i'm not personally familiar with that issue, i have heard it said | 19:17 |
| kreyren | and can you supply me with these~ | 19:17 |
| LjL | Spec, however this beta API i'm used just throw an internal server error no matter what exactly it going on | 19:17 |
| Spec | what api? | 19:17 |
| LjL | Spec, https://preview.zbmed.de/ | 19:17 |
| Spec | kreyren: i have quite a few pictures of the sun, but this is the best one i think | 19:17 |
| LjL | well the API being https://preview.zbmed.de/api/beta/ | 19:17 |
| LjL | at least that's the beta version i'm using, there is a non-beta version but it's silly because it doesn't use GET parameters | 19:17 |
| kreyren | Spec, If you have a new pictures i would be happy to see them ^-^ | 19:17 |
| Spec | kreyren: i take them with a hydrogen alpha filtered scope, taking a thousand pictures, and doing somoe small processing | 19:17 |
| LjL | i emailed them and they told me to try the beta version to avoid escapings going wrong | 19:18 |
| kreyren | Spec, i see O.o | 19:18 |
| kreyren | Spec, what kind of processing ? | 19:18 |
| kreyren | can i help as a hobbist~ | 19:18 |
| Spec | kreyren: here's a bad but cool picture, of the mercury transit https://specops.network/sun_full_mercury_transit.png | 19:18 |
| Spec | kreyren: and here's the same event, but with that super zooms https://specops.network/sun_zoom_mercury_transit.png | 19:19 |
| kreyren | mercury transit? | 19:19 |
| Spec | yes, last year mercury went in front of the sun, so we could see its shadow as it passed | 19:19 |
| kreyren | ah i see O.o | 19:19 |
| kreyren | cool | 19:19 |
| Spec | usually mercury is unseeable | 19:19 |
| kreyren | i think i was watching the event in planetarium in brno O.o | 19:19 |
| kreyren | didn't see much though x.x | 19:20 |
| Spec | :) | 19:20 |
| Spec | that zoom-mercury picture is one of my favorite | 19:20 |
| Spec | but out of context it is pretty unimpressive | 19:20 |
| kreyren | ye looks pretty cool to me too ^-^ | 19:20 |
| kreyren | Can you get more resolution from that? | 19:21 |
| Spec | what do you mean by resolutio | 19:23 |
| Spec | that super zoomy picture, i could photo the whole sun with that setup and create a mosaic | 19:24 |
| Spec | the problem is the sun changes quickly, so you have to take all the images within a 5 min period or so | 19:25 |
| kreyren | like seeing more detail O.o | 19:25 |
| LjL | the edge between the sun and the planet seems pretty sharp to me | 19:25 |
| Spec | so full disc usually turns out better | 19:25 |
| LjL | so i'm not sure what more detail there is to see | 19:25 |
| Spec | yes, i mean, if i could get this shit up into space :P | 19:25 |
| Spec | you can get more angular resolution with a better telescope/larger aperature, a camera sensor with smaller pixels, etc | 19:25 |
| Spec | all $$$$ | 19:25 |
| Spec | kreyren: if i become a billionaire, as we all are sure to be destined to be, i will buy a solar observatory and send you pictures | 19:26 |
| kreyren | it might be a dumb question but i like to watch the details of the invidual "clounds" in the sun i.e. https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/IQLs9M3p0M0LAr8dRqogwxnWlH4=/720x405/media/img/mt/2019/12/Nasa/original.gif | 19:27 |
| kreyren | but i guess that ain't possible to observe from the earth? | 19:27 |
| Spec | kreyren: not uhh, like that | 19:28 |
| Spec | kreyren: i could get better tho, and do a zoomy capture of the proms | 19:28 |
| kreyren | proms? | 19:29 |
| Spec | prominances, the things off the side of the sun that you like to look at | 19:29 |
| kreyren | ah | 19:29 |
| Spec | kreyren: i have a short video for you though, you might like. it is clouds going across the sun | 19:29 |
| Spec | raw footage of what i capture | 19:29 |
| kreyren | i would like to get images like https://www.thesun.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/NINTCHDBPICT000576015951.jpg from the earth ideally x.x | 19:29 |
| kreyren | that would look soo good interpreted in the interior x.x | 19:30 |
| Spec | kreyren: https://i.imgur.com/d5iRb1a.mp4 | 19:30 |
| Spec | can't really process that footage because of the clouds | 19:30 |
| kreyren | that's cool o.o | 19:30 |
| kreyren | does spacelink affect your observing ? | 19:31 |
| kreyren | or satelites in general? | 19:31 |
| Spec | kreyren: here's what zoom looks, this can be processed but would need more images, https://i.imgur.com/bS08ihH.mp4 | 19:31 |
| Spec | haha, it does not impact taking pictures of the sun, lol | 19:31 |
| Spec | it does impact taking pictures of galaxies and nebulas, but we can process them out | 19:31 |
| kreyren | i see O.o | 19:31 |
| Spec | kreyren: the wiggling is due to the heat of air raising through atmosphere in front of my scope | 19:32 |
| Spec | so i take a thousand pictures and throw out 80% of them | 19:32 |
| kreyren | i see O.o Seems like something that can be processed by AI for more detail though | 19:32 |
| kreyren | which would be probably inaccurate but might be good enough for the interior O.o | 19:32 |
| Spec | kreyren: i guess AI could make up missing data reasonably well, but it wouldn't be accurate | 19:33 |
| kreyren | ye.. but there ain't any way to get more detailed images from the earth no? | 19:34 |
| Spec | kreyren: i also take decent pictures of the moon, which is currently free of coronavirus as is the sun | 19:34 |
| Spec | kreyren: yeah, bigger scope haha, larger aperature means you can increase zoom | 19:34 |
| Spec | if i use a 3x barlow for example, instead of 2x like my zoom'd pictures use, we would approach the limits of magnification for aperture ratio, so it would become blurry | 19:34 |
| Spec | kreyren: here are some moon pictures, to balance the sun https://specops.network/moon1.png and https://specops.network/moon_09052020_final.png -- i like them | 19:35 |
| kreyren | that's cool x.x | 19:35 |
| Spec | i am tempted to get them printed, but i don't know how to get them printed well | 19:36 |
| kreyren | o.o | 19:37 |
| kreyren | tbh i don't like printed things of the univers makes me feel like they will be out of date after i look at them for a longer time >.> | 19:37 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +3983 cases (now 8.8 million), +28 deaths (now 229591) since an hour ago — Canada: +1 cases (now 214049) since an hour ago | 19:38 |
| kreyren | i wonder what caused the South Pole-Aitken crater | 19:39 |
| Spec | kreyren: many structures in space will be vast and unchanging for our entire lives | 19:39 |
| Spec | :) | 19:39 |
| kreyren | i like to theoretize that it was a nuke from previous civilization | 19:39 |
| kreyren | Spec, ye because of the time it takes for a light to get to us from these x.x | 19:39 |
| Spec | kreyren: i don't know how to map the resolution of my digital file to the paper size such that it turns out good looking, or what quality of printed material/inks work well | 19:40 |
| Spec | it's a whole world that is dull and boring to me | 19:40 |
| Spec | :P | 19:40 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, python444: for the benefit of providing an article about this with a less slanted headline than what that silly person kiwi_52 gave before, https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-behaves-as-desired-analysis-finds-12111085 although i'm kind of confused that this had not already been ascertained (since it's not about "working" as in "stopping COVID", but about giving the desired instructions to the cells), but the | 19:42 |
| LjL | news about this appear to be recent so maybe they really hadn't, or i don't understand what is different this time | 19:42 |
| kreyren | Spec, o.o | 19:42 |
| Spec | so do we have multiple viable vaccines that are in various stages of progress? i haven't been paying much attention | 19:43 |
| LjL | <kreyren> Spec, ye because of the time it takes for a light to get to us from these x.x ← no, that's not the reason... | 19:43 |
| LjL | Spec, uh, yeah | 19:43 |
| kreyren | LjL, eh? | 19:43 |
| LjL | hundreds, with perhaps a dozen at an advanced stage | 19:43 |
| LjL | kreyren, the reason many space objects appear to be unchanging for our entire life has nothing to do with the time the lights get to us | 19:44 |
| kreyren | LjL, justify | 19:44 |
| Spec | it has to do with not having enough resolution to see the changes | 19:44 |
| LjL | kreyren, it does take a long time to get to us, but that just means that we see whatever is happening to them... delayed | 19:44 |
| LjL | it doesn't mean that they somehow appear to stay still why they're not | 19:44 |
| Spec | the objects are so vast and huge, despite them changing, they appear unchanging due to the vastness | 19:44 |
| LjL | they are just massive and distant enough that we're not going to notice any visible changes in our short lifetimes | 19:44 |
| Spec | from our viewpoint and resolution capabilities | 19:44 |
| Spec | with the exceptions of violent activities, such as a supernova | 19:45 |
| Spec | we do see some things change through vast distances -- the dimming of a star as a planet occludes it, etc | 19:45 |
| kreyren | LjL, true, but some of these objects are very far away and i wasn't able to observe any change in things like galaxies O.o | 19:45 |
| LjL | kreyren, why would you expect to? | 19:46 |
| LjL | kreyren, unless some massive things happens like a giant supernova, they are not changing at a speed that allows you to observe any changes from your limited ability to view them from earth | 19:47 |
| kreyren | true i was hoping to get more information about the galaxy | 19:47 |
| LjL | telescopes like Hubble may see some changes, though, or again we may see them if something really big happens. has nothing to do with the speed of light | 19:47 |
| Spec | kreyren: if you would like to do some math.... | 19:48 |
| Spec | kreyren: take a common optical setup and figure out the angular resolution of what you can see | 19:48 |
| kreyren | Spec, after i hugged up the CFR calculation | 19:48 |
| kreyren | o.o | 19:48 |
| Spec | kreyren: and see how much 1 pixel maps to | 19:48 |
| Spec | take my sun picture for example | 19:48 |
| kreyren | o.o | 19:48 |
| Spec | the sun is close, too | 19:48 |
| Spec | 865,370 miles wide -- my image's full disc is 845 pixels wide, ... so each 1 pixel in my sun picture is about 1024 MILES | 19:51 |
| Spec | now imagine a nebula, 10 lightyears across, but still mapped to 800-1000 pixels | 19:51 |
| LjL | Spec, that's about standard driving distance for driving to the grocery store in America, right? | 19:51 |
| Spec | LjL: a little bit under ya | 19:51 |
| Spec | kreyren: you see that a solar feature travelling a thousand miles an hour, would take an entire hour to just shift 1 pixel in this picture | 19:52 |
| Spec | kreyren: this is just under 6 lightyears diameter https://specops.network/NGC7023.png about 1560 pixels to be generous, so each pixel maps to .00384 lightyears, or 22573921000 miles per pixel | 19:58 |
| python444 | yo mamma zinc supplements | 20:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from University of Washington: Hydroxychloroquine Fails to Prevent COVID-19 (includes Ruanne Barnabas): hydroxychloroquine_gettyimages_smaller-1222029807.jpg Close A careful look at hydroxychloroquine finds it ineffective in protecting exposed people from contracting COVID-19. Getty Images. View image caption Results to appear in Open Forum [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/OyizdW | 20:16 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +16578 cases (now 8.8 million), +136 deaths (now 229727) since 54 minutes ago — Arizona, US: +890 cases (now 236772), +4 deaths (now 5869) since a day ago — Canada: +338 cases (now 214387) since 48 minutes ago | 20:23 |
| kreyren | Spec, i see O.o So each of those pixels are adapted based on some algorithm that adapts the pixels to represents the source image? | 20:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +371 cases (now 8.8 million) since 43 minutes ago | 20:53 |
| Jigsy | 3>Reopening schools causes R transmission rate to surge, study suggests | 21:15 |
| tinwhiskers | kreyren: probably something like astrostack, which overlays and aligns all the images (after discarding bad ones), then basically you get an average image. | 21:15 |
| Jigsy | In other news, water is wet. | 21:15 |
| Jigsy | I like how they needed to conduct a study to find that out. | 21:16 |
| LjL | Jigsy, and yet our government still insists that schools are a negligible cause of new clusters :\ | 21:16 |
| tinwhiskers | well, it may not have caused that if, as some people claimed, children were not responsible for much of the spread. It needed to be confirmed that those people were wrong :-) | 21:17 |
| LjL | although they can't really know that anymore since they ADMITTED that in Lombardy at least, but also elsewhere, they've lost control of knowing the origin of at least 30% of the cases | 21:17 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers, those people included me, tentatively, and i still don't necessarily think that's wrong | 21:17 |
| LjL | schools are a problem in various ways | 21:17 |
| LjL | and "children" can mean various things | 21:17 |
| LjL | if people thought that "children" meant highschool kids, well that's bollocks | 21:18 |
| LjL | anyway, schools mean people taking public transport, teachers, personnel, a number of thigns that aren't just the kids | 21:18 |
| LjL | here it means public transport gets much more crowded | 21:19 |
| Jigsy | Children are literally one of the biggest vectors of disease. | 21:19 |
| tinwhiskers | that's a bold claim | 21:19 |
| LjL | Jigsy, does "literally" give your cliam more credit? | 21:19 |
| Jigsy | "I can't come in to work, I caught a cold off my child who got it from someone at school." | 21:19 |
| LjL | there are studies showing children are *not* | 21:19 |
| Jigsy | Okay, maybe it's not the children per se. | 21:19 |
| LjL | there are also some studies showing otherwise | 21:19 |
| Jigsy | But the schools. | 21:19 |
| LjL | i think it's fair to say that we don't know | 21:19 |
| tinwhiskers | we've seen enough instances or soaring rates now when schools reopen to know that reopening schools is a risky thing to do. | 21:20 |
| LjL | i agree with that | 21:22 |
| zini[m] | afaik, even places like sweden haven't don't have significant herd immunity | 21:22 |
| LjL | although i personally think elementary schools should be opened, while other schools should stay closed | 21:22 |
| LjL | i have three reasons for that which i think i mentioned before | 21:22 |
| zini[m] | a lot of places locked down wave 1, but still the 1st wave was pretty bad | 21:22 |
| LjL | one, there are still these studies showing children below 10-11 may not spread much really | 21:22 |
| zini[m] | why aren't places having bad wave 2s compared to wave 1? | 21:22 |
| LjL | two, those are the children who if they stay at home, they need caretakers which can make things worse in turn | 21:23 |
| zini[m] | afaik, even places like sweden don't** have significant herd immunity | 21:23 |
| LjL | three, high school kids can understand remote learning (doesn't mean they'll do it, but that's on them), kids under 10 may be a bit of a problem telling them the tablet is their new teacher | 21:23 |
| tinwhiskers | fair | 21:23 |
| kreyren | tinwhiskers, o.o | 21:23 |
| LjL | zini[m], where lockdowns were full during the first wave, it seems to me that the wave eventually stopped, although it may have taken longer than hoped | 21:24 |
| LjL | then... it started again | 21:24 |
| LjL | i don't know yet if we are having bad second waves compared to first waves | 21:24 |
| LjL | they sure look bad | 21:24 |
| LjL | but in the first wave we didn't really have meaningful numbers | 21:24 |
| LjL | we were testing much, much less | 21:24 |
| LjL | now, again, we are in a situation where we're no longer testing enough | 21:24 |
| LjL | but for a while we were testing enough-ish | 21:24 |
| zini[m] | LjL: the best example i have in mind is america. wave 1 had a high kill rate, but wave 2 not so much | 21:24 |
| kreyren | north korea now looks like a nice place to live eh? | 21:25 |
| LjL | which means seeing many more cases, while deaths are still low (for now, i'm not brushing it off) compared to the first wave | 21:25 |
| tinwhiskers | kreyren: lol. I think you can do better. | 21:25 |
| LjL | zini[m], compared to Europe though, you don't really *see* a clear wave 1 - wave 2 distinction in the US graph (maybe individual states) | 21:25 |
| zini[m] | LjL: true, they kinda gave up half way thru | 21:26 |
| kreyren | tinwhiskers, how~ they are socially distancing since 90s and doesn't have diseases apparently :p | 21:26 |
| kreyren | + they like me there x.x | 21:26 |
| zini[m] | afaik, iran looks like it had: wave 1 - bad. wave 2 worse. wave 3 even worse. | 21:26 |
| LjL | http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=EU;US the US is a mostly linear, slightly wavy line. the EU has two clear waves | 21:26 |
| tinwhiskers | Well, here in Tonga we don't have any covid, and there's some other bonuses about not starving and living in an authoritarian hellhole that, on balance, makes this more preferable. | 21:27 |
| zini[m] | maybe crazy idea: | 21:27 |
| zini[m] | most of the ppl who were extremely susceptible to death/infection via covid got hit in the first wave. Ex old age homes | 21:28 |
| LjL | i don't see very clear waves in the Iran graph either | 21:28 |
| LjL | it kinda just kept going, both cases and deaths | 21:28 |
| LjL | i mean sure, if you look at the derivative, you can probably define wave in some sense | 21:29 |
| zini[m] | whereas now, there aren't as many old age home clients alive | 21:29 |
| LjL | but they don't look very meaningful compared to the EU situation | 21:29 |
| zini[m] | i mean if u look at iran's death wave | 21:29 |
| zini[m] | iran, like a sound wave, has troughs and peaks of death | 21:30 |
| zini[m] | in italy, is it mostly the "general" population that is getting sick now? | 21:31 |
| LjL | zini[m], yes, the median age of cases reached as low as 29 years, then it started rising again, although at the end of september it was going *down* again | 21:40 |
| LjL | data for october aren't published yet | 21:40 |
| LjL | there's a report in english here https://www.epicentro.iss.it/en/coronavirus/bollettino/Report-COVID-2019_22_october_2020.pdf but it doesn't have that particular graph | 21:41 |
| zini[m] | so i might be on to something! | 21:41 |
| zini[m] | also, is eng an official language in italy? | 21:42 |
| LjL | this one in italian does https://www.epicentro.iss.it/coronavirus/bollettino/Bollettino-sorveglianza-integrata-COVID-19_20-ottobre-2020.pdf but apparently it has changed, now the age is going up again | 21:42 |
| LjL | no | 21:42 |
| LjL | official language in italy nationwide is just italian, then french, german and slovenian (and maybe romantsch?) are official in some places | 21:43 |
| zini[m] | <LjL "no"> why do they release so many english reports? | 21:43 |
| zini[m] | and why are you fluent? :p | 21:43 |
| zini[m] | the comorbidy section is interesting | 21:45 |
| zini[m] | hypertension most likely killer comorbidity | 21:46 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +23789 cases (now 1.1 million), +137 deaths (now 34645) since 14 hours ago — US: +15465 cases (now 8.8 million), +163 deaths (now 229890) since an hour ago — Canada: +103 cases (now 214490), +17 deaths (now 9937) since an hour ago | 21:53 |
| zini[m] | offline | 22:16 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +5309 cases (now 8.8 million), +81 deaths (now 229971) since 37 minutes ago | 22:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: France reports record of over 45,000 new coronavirus cases in a day → https://is.gd/9c2abd | 22:31 |
| ryouma | https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/long-haul-covid-patients/2020/10/23/ab7c5324-0712-11eb-9be6-cf25fb429f1a_story.html | 23:02 |
| python444 | o/ | 23:04 |
| python444 | https://archive.is/cxYGz | 23:07 |
| ryouma | thanks | 23:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Europe becomes second region to cross 250,000 deaths as second COVID wave hits → https://is.gd/4PX4kQ | 23:27 |
| LjL | python4441, can you be python27 just so i don't have to port my bot when it goes discontinued | 23:28 |
| LjL | which is soon | 23:28 |
| LjL | no no i need new style classes | 23:29 |
| LjL | at least | 23:29 |
| LjL | that's more like it | 23:29 |
| python27lts | *guido left the chat* | 23:29 |
| LjL | i mean he should admit that nobody wanted to port their stuff | 23:30 |
| LjL | there might be a reason for that | 23:30 |
| LjL | at this pace, if after 2021 we still aren't porting things to python 3, he might start threatening us with guns | 23:30 |
| python27lts | afaik it's pretty much over now | 23:31 |
| python27lts | it was a long long road though | 23:31 |
| LjL | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR4HjTH_fTM | 23:32 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.youtube.com: The Long And Winding Road (Remastered 2009) - YouTube | 23:32 |
| dTal | such a ridiculous fiasco | 23:32 |
| python27lts | cult classic | 23:33 |
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