libera/##covid-19/ Monday, 2020-11-09

CoronaBot	04/r/covid19: SARS-CoV-2 mink-associated variant strain - Denmark (80 votes) \| https://www.who.int/csr/don/06-november-2020-mink-associated-sars-cov2-denmark/en/ \| https://redd.it/jqaax6	00:05
Brainstorm	Updates for Sudan: +278 deaths (now 1115) since 5 hours ago — Uruguay: +73 cases (now 3514), +1 deaths (now 62) since 23 hours ago — US: +115298 cases (now 10.3 million), +562 deaths (now 243731) since a day ago	00:06
de-facto	hmm with those mink farms, is the origin of that mutation really determined to have occurred in the minks themselves? Sure it was found there, but can it be excluded that it originated from somewhere else spreading into the mink population? At least its known to pass forth and back between minks and humans... What about the mink food sources or possible contacts to other animals?	00:10
de-facto	would be of importance to ensure the real reservoir where that mutation occurred is eliminated completely	00:11
de-facto	(btw not saying it did not mutate in the minks, would make sense that it did, just curious about exclusions of potential other sources)	00:12
Brainstorm	New from NPR: COVID-19 Cases Top 50 Million Globally, U.S. Nears 10 Million: The U.S., India and Brazil lead with the most cases and account for nearly half of the world count. The U.S. alone is poised to hit 10 million cases as hospitalizations continue to climb. → https://is.gd/w7zpeT	00:13
LjL	de-facto, i don't know but the guys in TWIV were also a bit perplexed about that	00:19
LjL	but really, we have the danish government's press conference, and the WHO statement which says even less than that	00:19
LjL	and the sequences, okay	00:19
LjL	until there's some real published info... who knows	00:19
LjL	however, i assume some mink (not just humans) have been sequenced	00:20
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +116157 cases (now 10.3 million), +551 deaths (now 243737) since a day ago	00:20
LjL	with enough being sequenced, i assume it should be possible to create a tree just like you do within countries and exclude enough to be able to reconstruct where in the tree something goes...? (in which cases, humans_1, or mink, or humans_2)	00:21
DocScrutinizer05	de-facto: probability says it mutated in minks. The likelihood of mutation * jumping-species-barrier is extremely low	00:30
DocScrutinizer05	IOW it would be more than just strange to see exavtly that max dozen of people with the new strain then going to infect minks but not other people	00:31
DocScrutinizer05	while within a gew millions ofminks a mutuation is not all that unlikely	00:33
DocScrutinizer05	a few* mio	00:33
DocScrutinizer05	must have spread there among them like mad	00:33
DocScrutinizer05	the concerning thing with all mutations that don't fade away is: they must have an evolutionary advantage to dominate over theri ancestor strain	00:35
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +115924 cases (now 10.3 million) since a day ago	00:35
de-facto	what i meant is excluding the possibility that it mutated in some other carrier before it was passed on into the mink population and from there to humans	00:50
Brainstorm	Updates for Canada: +4058 cases (now 264113), +24 deaths (now 10522) since a day ago — US: +109855 cases (now 10.3 million) since a day ago	00:51
de-facto	sure the mink population of 17M is quite big and probably with quite some prevalence, so indeed they are the most likely source of that mutation	00:51
de-facto	still would be important to exclude other natural reservoirs e.g. their food supply chain or even local animal populations such as rodents, cats, birds?, whatever	00:52
de-facto	or other farm animals if the food supply came from slaughter houses or such	00:53
de-facto	just saying it should be investigated to be sure (even if improbable), given the magnitude of other measures they implement it would be appropriate imho	00:54
de-facto	because after some time circumstances will have changed too much to do a Sherlock Holmes on that	00:58
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +110976 cases (now 10.3 million), +517 deaths (now 243740) since a day ago	01:06
LjL	de-facto, if they're hypothizing seagulls, because they went and tested the foot of a seagull, that to me says they are sherlock holmesing already, as far as they can	01:14
LjL	but if 17 million sounds like a lot, imagine the total number of mammals in denmark	01:14
de-facto	yeah makes sense, hopefully they really do look into that	01:16
de-facto	i did not remember, were birds thought to be susceptible or not?	01:17
de-facto	afaik i remember from a podcast that rodents are susceptible	01:19
de-facto	at least some of them	01:19
de-facto	i think in general this should be investigated further, potential new animal reservoirs for SARS-CoV-2 especially in mass farming etc because obviously that would be very relevant for vaccinations	01:21
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +113926 cases (now 10.3 million), +528 deaths (now 243754) since a day ago	01:21
de-facto	but also in wild populations of course	01:21
de-facto	because those are even harder to control if at all	01:22
de-facto	i mean why would the cluster 5 incident be THE exception, it just demonstrates it easily can spill over with some species	01:23
Brainstorm	Updates for Netherlands: +6192 cases (now 410595), +56 deaths (now 8016) since a day ago — Canada: +24 deaths (now 10531) since 23 hours ago	01:35
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +113235 cases (now 10.3 million), +528 deaths (now 243756) since a day ago	01:50
LjL	de-facto, i don't think any bird has been found susceptible. they blame seagulls but as carriers on their bodies (hypothetically)	01:50
de-facto	well that would make sense, seagulls are very aggressively hunting for any foods (so probably also everything accessible on such mink farms)	01:52
de-facto	but if they would not be susceptible themselves they would not be a natural reservoir able to produce dangerous mutations	01:53
de-facto	but maybe give the pathogen a "ride" between susceptible populations of animals	01:54
de-facto	so can UK ban seagull traveling aswell?	01:55
de-facto	what if those mink farms let dead minks lay in open skies and seagulls tried to feed on the corpses? what if the food for the minks (in other farms) also was left under open skies and seagulls with contaminated beaks would try to feed on that prior to it being given to the minks?	01:59
de-facto	what if those seagulls carry it to other (wild or farmed) animal populations that may serve as potential natural reservoir?	02:00
de-facto	(ok admitted thats all speculation)	02:00
LjL	some posts skeptical on the utility of non-N95 masks here (as in, thinking they don't help to a meaningful extent) https://np.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/jqg7wm/wearing_of_cloth_or_disposable_surgical_face/	02:01
LjL	de-facto, you made that objection before and i thought it made sense... however maybe since they plan to cull all the minks, they don't care much about whether seagulls can transfer it to other minks. but that's riddled with problems, such as: what about infecting other mammals? what about mink in other countries close enough for seagulls to fly to?	02:03
de-facto	why would one intuitively cover mouth and nose when coughing or sneezing? because its disgusting how much saliva is spitted, same goes for talking loudly, so why would one question that blocking the flight path of such droplets with a (community cotton) mask is not effective in preventing spitting all those on the people around?	02:03
de-facto	LjL, yeah exactly my thinking	02:04
tinwhiskers	agendas	02:04
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +109778 cases (now 10.3 million) since a day ago	02:05
LjL	i don't think you can just brush it off as "agendas", it's r/COVID19 and people are not just being politics fussers	02:06
de-facto	and btw: since >44% of infections happen prior to symptoms it does not matter if they argue about masks in "healthy" people or not, its just not a valid point because of asymptomatic infection being a big issue	02:06
LjL	Italy is an example where there has been a mask mandate for quite a while, and although it may have delayed the spike compared to other European countries (has it? of course it could be many other things), a spike that's way more than the system can handle is happening anyway	02:06
LjL	so at least, the whole "if everyone wore mask that would keep it under control" argument seems to shake a little with Italy	02:07
LjL	de-facto, the only time "healthy" is mentioned is in the study, but the study isn't the one saying masks are not useful, some commenters are	02:07
LjL	the study is just trying to say they don't make it harder to breathe, so if anything it's there to convince people to use them	02:08
LjL	see specifically https://np.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/jqg7wm/wearing_of_cloth_or_disposable_surgical_face/gbnc66c/ and https://np.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/jqg7wm/wearing_of_cloth_or_disposable_surgical_face/gbn4e3h/	02:08
de-facto	ok protection of the carrier is questionable for cotton community masks indeed, but protection of others from droplets (even more important because of overdispersion, minorities causing majority of next gen infections) is obviously given by them (e.g. in any situations where physical distance can not be kept, even outdoors), yet of course now indoors aerosol plays a big role and probably for preventing transmission by that they are not	02:09
de-facto	so effective indeed	02:09
de-facto	there always will be asocial idiots refusing to wear masks (just as in the yt video above) and also medical doctors attesting they wont have to wear masks. to be honest in my opinion such "doctors" did potentially harm to the health of many people hence act against the hippocratic oath. They should loose their license permanently and such individuals excluded from society until they rethink their reckless and anti-social behavior.	02:12
de-facto	there simply is NO possibility of any medical reason to be unable to wear a mask. simple as that.	02:13
de-facto	if any medical doctor is of different opinion, i want to see that data	02:14
de-facto	i mean sure, its not convenient to wear masks, well its also not convenient to get infected.	02:15
de-facto	%title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s	02:19
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.youtube.com: High speed camera captures how different types of face masks work - YouTube	02:19
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +110036 cases (now 10.3 million), +512 deaths (now 243759) since a day ago	02:20
de-facto	%title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Tp0zB904Mc	02:22
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.youtube.com: How Well Do Masks Work? (Schlieren Imaging In Slow Motion!) - YouTube	02:22
de-facto	%title https://www.mdpi.com/1660-4601/17/21/8110/htm	02:24
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.mdpi.com: IJERPH \| Free Full-Text \| Wearing of Cloth or Disposable Surgical Face Masks has no Effect on Vigorous Exercise Performance in Healthy Individuals \| HTML	02:24
de-facto	yeah i did try that myself too, driving bicycle with a dense FFP3, SpO2 was 98% and I did not had the feeling of being out of breath earlier or such	02:25
jacklsw	really?	02:28
jacklsw	running is a bit difficult with surgical mask	02:28
jacklsw	maybe i should try again	02:29
de-facto	yes i was curious about it, i bought an FFP3 (with exhale vent) and actually there is noticeable air resistance breathing through that, so is something to get used to, but i did not have the feeling that it would restrict me in any way after some time	02:29
de-facto	so i took my pulseoximeter with me and did some intermediate measurements during bicycle driving with the mask, it as 98% so even higher than my usual ~96-97% (I was chainsmoker till March of 2020)	02:31
derpadmin	%cases canada	02:33
Brainstorm	derpadmin: In Canada, there have been 264113 confirmed cases (0.7% of the population) and 10531 deaths (4.0% of cases) as of 58 minutes ago. 9.9 million tests were performed (2.7% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 4.6% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data.	02:33
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +110546 cases (now 10.3 million), +521 deaths (now 243768) since a day ago	02:36
CoronaBot	04/r/coronavirus: Biden’s ready to start his pandemic response immediately (10463 votes) \| https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/07/biden-to-start-pandemic-response-immediately/?utm_content=buffer9402a&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter_organic \| https://redd.it/jqhbgo	02:54
Brainstorm	Updates for Netherlands: +5941 cases (now 412011), +52 deaths (now 8027) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +3713 cases (now 264327), +32 deaths (now 10539) since a day ago — United Kingdom: +6 deaths (now 49050) since 8 hours ago — New Zealand: +4 cases (now 1986) since a day ago	03:06
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: Covid cases near 10 million in US with no slowdown in sight → https://is.gd/GssG1N	03:10
de-facto	%title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk64Zwcj3W8	03:10
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.youtube.com: I tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 - YouTube	03:10
de-facto	channel: Vincent Racaniello	03:10
de-facto	%title academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1491/5912603	03:15
Brainstorm	de-facto, the command line provided is invalid	03:15
de-facto	%title https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa1491/5912603	03:15
Brainstorm	de-facto: From academic.oup.com: Correlation Between 3790 Quantitative Polymerase Chain Reaction–Positives Samples and Positive Cell Cultures, Including 1941 Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Isolates \| Clinical [...]	03:15
de-facto	quite weird that their PCR at Columbia Broad Institute only uses primers for the nucleocapsid protein (single primer set) without employing another primer for another low immunologic pressure protein (two primer sets)	03:21
de-facto	%title https://eu.wisfarmer.com/story/news/2020/11/05/more-than-3-k-mink-reported-dead-wi-mink-farm-covid/6174646002/	03:26
Brainstorm	de-facto: From eu.wisfarmer.com: More than 3K mink reported dead at WI mink farm from COVID	03:26
de-facto	%title https://www.wpr.org/more-3k-mink-dead-coronavirus-taylor-county-mink-farm	03:27
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.wpr.org: More Than 3K Mink Dead From Coronavirus At Taylor County Mink Farm \| Wisconsin Public Radio	03:27
tinwhiskers	r'oh roh	03:28
Brainstorm	New from "Cluster 5" on Wikipedia: Boud: /* Background */ ill with a disease, infected by a virus: Background: ill with a disease, infected by a virus ← Previous revision Revision as of 02:23, 9 November 2020 Line 5: Line 5: == Background == == Background == − Denmark is the largest producer of mink fur in the world. {{cite news\|date=4 November [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/74bzDF	03:28
de-facto	%title https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/08/covid-19-hits-us-mink-farms-after-ripping-through-europe <-- this is going on for quite some time it seems	03:28
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.sciencemag.org: COVID-19 hits U.S. mink farms after ripping through Europe \| Science \| AAAS	03:28
tinwhiskers	the mink are out to get us	03:28
de-facto	i wonder if they did any sequencing on those outbreaks or if Denmark just is the first doing that	03:29
ap4lmtree	hi	03:33
ap4lmtree	why is covid19 still spreadign if peopel are wearing masks	03:33
de-facto	because wearing masks only lowers the probability of transmission, its not a guarantee that infection is impossible. Without masks it would spread even faster.	03:37
de-facto	If 100 carriers would infect 120 susceptible it would mean an reproduction number of R = 120/100 = 1.2 and that reproduction number R = transmissibility * contact_rate * duration_of_infectiousness	03:39
de-facto	so reducing each of those terms will reduce the number of infected people in the next generation of an infection chain	03:39
de-facto	lowering the transmissibility by non-pharmaceutical measures such as wearing masks (N95 or FFP2 masks also would prevent spread via aerosol in addition to spit droplets prevented by community cotton masks), ensuring air exchange and preventing surface contact as well as not touching face and washing the hands	03:41
ap4lmtree	my dad has an appointment for his doctor for a physical and he wears a kn95 mask	03:41
ap4lmtree	i thoughtit was going to be safe for him, but now i dont know	03:41
de-facto	then of course every contact that did not take place can not cause an infection, so lowering contact rates is the most effective method	03:42
de-facto	an infected carrier begins to spread the virus upon the environment in amounts that are infectious even before symptoms may begin (though some never get symptoms), 44% of infections already happened before symptoms and the day before they begin is the most infectious	03:43
ap4lmtree	de-facto, my dad might not be safe going to the doctor even though he has a powecom kn95 mask?	03:43
de-facto	roughly after a week or such the spread of virions upon the environment from most of the carriers is so low that they probably are not really infectious anymore	03:44
de-facto	its recommended to wear an N95 mask with very tight fit (your dad should shave beard off if he got one, so the lip of the mask has a tight fit on the skin), it can lower the infection probability significantly	03:45
de-facto	imagine a specific amount of virions is required to start an infection: for a given concentration of such virions in the air a specific amount of inhale cycles would be required to go over the threshold of that infectious dose	03:46
de-facto	so it depends on the time spent in such an environment	03:46
de-facto	if a filter can reduce the amount of inhaled particles by 95% it would need 20x as long or as many inhaling cycles to get that infectious threshold dose	03:47
de-facto	there are also N99 or FFP3 masks that would filter up to 99%, so for those 100x the exposure time would be needed to get infected	03:48
de-facto	its always about bringing down the probabilities of infections below a level that is acceptable for a given concentrations of contamination in an environment	03:49
de-facto	there is no guarantee (well maybe except for those biohazard suits that have positive air pressure inside of them, but those cant be worn in everyday life), but personal protective equipment can lower the infection probability down to an acceptable value	03:51
de-facto	btw some medical doctors also allow the patients to wait outdoors, so wearing a mask and waiting outdoors to minimize time together with other patients in the same room may lower the risk even more	03:52
de-facto	(I did that myself some time ago)	03:52
de-facto	ap4lmtree, but your question about why COVID-19 still is spreading even if many people wear masks is indeed a valid one, if an exact answer would be known for all the infection sources we could target them much better.	03:55
de-facto	afaik 75% of infection origins are unknown in Germany right now	03:55
de-facto	so thats bad because for 3 out of 4 infections we dont know what to prevent, hence we need to reduce contact rate to bring reproduction down	03:56
de-facto	i would think many infections are caused by people simply ignoring or even going into opposition to effective containment efforts or also being too relaxed about things like ensuring proper air exchange	03:59
de-facto	but thats a guess	03:59
jacklsw	because WHO has failed us all	03:59
jacklsw	xD	03:59
de-facto	also i would think many infections happen in homes, people visiting each others or meeting friends etc	04:00
de-facto	maybe childcare centers for the very young are not such a big contribution but for children at school like early puberty age or such and beyond having schools open also could be quite a big contribution to reproduction, some papers say like 24% after 28 days	04:01
de-facto	its just humans are social beings and used to not care about contagion, we have to change that because we will need to live with the pathogen for quite some time	04:02
de-facto	i mean transition into caring about preventing contagion	04:03
LjL	de-facto, i currently have 96% and i only was a chainsmoker until 2013... whereas this doctor on youtube has consistently 99%. buuuut he also has 50 or less than 50 bpm at rest, and 63 after a minute of exercising... while i have... 90 at rest, 120 if i stand up :x	04:14
de-facto	congratz to having stopped smoking :)	04:15
LjL	<de-facto> i wonder if they did any sequencing on those outbreaks or if Denmark just is the first doing that ← someone on reddit had the guts to say Denmark has "ONLY" been sequencing 15% of cases... i wish we sequenced 1%!	04:15
de-facto	well yeah i have also high pulse sometimes like 90-120 or sometimes even blood pressure 150/90 or such, it got better when i were outdoors for a run each day though	04:16
LjL	lack of exercise does seem likely to be the culprit	04:16
LjL	and anxiety	04:16
de-facto	yeah of course stress is not healthy	04:17
de-facto	except for physical workout on regular training basis	04:17
de-facto	LjL, what i meant is that i wonder if they did sequence the cases in Netherlands and Wisconsin too	04:18
de-facto	e.g. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/06/coronavirus-rips-through-dutch-mink-farms-triggering-culls-prevent-human-infections	04:19
de-facto	%T	04:20
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.sciencemag.org: Coronavirus rips through Dutch mink farms, triggering culls to prevent human infections \| Science \| AAAS	04:20
de-facto	"Mortality was negligible at one farm and almost 10% at another. “That’s strange—we don’t really understand it,” says virologist Marion Koopmans of Erasmus Medical Center in Rotterdam."	04:20
tinwhiskers	%title https://www.cnet.com/news/scientists-discover-two-new-mammals-in-australia/	04:20
Brainstorm	tinwhiskers: From www.cnet.com: Scientists discover two new mammals in Australia - CNET	04:20
de-facto	yeah strange indeed, one mutated another did not?	04:20
tinwhiskers	bad time to be discovered	04:20
de-facto	" Feral cats roaming the farms—and stealing the mink’s food—were found to be infected as well."	04:21
de-facto	%title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.18.101493v1	04:21
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: SARS-CoV2 infection in farmed mink, Netherlands, April 2020 \| bioRxiv	04:21
de-facto	%title https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.23.2001005	04:21
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.eurosurveillance.org: Eurosurveillance \| SARS-CoV-2 infection in farmed minks, the Netherlands, April and May 2020	04:21
de-facto	tinwhiskers, heh those marsupial species are cute, somehow remind me of a comic figure from France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marsupilami	04:25
de-facto	so are there feral cats and or rodents on the mink farms in Denmark ?	04:27
LjL	i'd expect there to be	04:28
LjL	strange about the mortality	04:28
de-facto	maybe different mink species? or maybe different mutations?	04:29
LjL	those are the two things i could think of too	04:29
LjL	or maybe some were given vitamin D! :P	04:29
de-facto	i mean if it was different mink species they probably would not be surprised about that fact themselves there	04:29
de-facto	hence if they are puzzled about it themselves, could it possibly have been due to a mutation of the pathogen then?	04:30
LjL	the only answer i have is quoting someone who was quoting someone on TWIV, "sequence, sequence, sequence!"	04:31
de-facto	yes and correlate those sequences with pathogen properties	04:31
de-facto	such as unexpected changes in transmissibility, mortality, immune-evasion etc	04:32
de-facto	pretty much WHO should do such things worldwide and make a public repository about mutations and associated properties	04:33
de-facto	as well as dynamics of their spread	04:33
LjL	please not WHO	04:33
LjL	anyone but WHO	04:34
Brainstorm	New from BBC Health: Covid: Lack of medical supplies 'hits' disabled people: The pandemic is making it hard to get medication and breathing equipment, a BBC survey suggests. → https://is.gd/xek0TC	04:34
de-facto	well it should be done by a worldwide organization coordinating research efforts providing that info with open sources for everyone	04:36
de-facto	directing money at the relevant questions	04:36
Brainstorm	Updates for Belgium: +6621 cases (now 500789), +148 deaths (now 13055) since 23 hours ago	04:50
de-facto	where can i see the latest number of tests performed for Belgium (official source)?	05:08
de-facto	trying to understand this graph here: http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Belgium&byPopulation=yes&cumulative=no&smooth=yes&miscType=Reff&legacy=no	05:10
de-facto	is that a real decline in prevalence or just a decline due to change in testing strategy?	05:10
de-facto	asking because of this: https://www.politico.eu/article/belgium-scales-back-coronavirus-testing-strategy-as-labs-face-crunch/	05:12
de-facto	https://epistat.wiv-isp.be/covid/	05:17
ryouma	i am going to go anyway, but if a dental office has rooms whose walls do not reach the ceiling, and are presumably adjacent to other rooms, is that a bad sign? apparently hteh yahve fans.	05:35
LjL	de-facto, oh wow they've been scaling them down for real. and i was hoping Belgium's slowing-down slope might be the beginning of a trend across Europe...	05:37
de-facto	yes i just making a graph	05:38
LjL	ryouma, just get your teeth fixed and stop stressing about it. you just said, you're going to go anyway. it's not in your control now. there simply is no need to add more stress into the mix of things that could go wron	05:38
de-facto	damn its not a real decline in prevalence	05:38
DocScrutinizer05	>>a worldwide organization coordinating research efforts providing that info with open sources<< and in this context WHO comes to mind? lol?	05:38
de-facto	%title https://imgur.com/a/9uMnf6j https://i.imgur.com/kznk9WK.png	05:40
Brainstorm	de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID-19 Tests and Cases in Belgium - Album on Imgur	05:40
de-facto	LjL, ^^	05:40
de-facto	source: https://epistat.wiv-isp.be/covid/	05:41
LjL	de-facto, make a cases/tests graph	05:44
DocScrutinizer05	even that doesn't help you out when test strategy changes to "only when symptoms"	05:47
Brainstorm	New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add Belgium tracker → https://is.gd/8j30oV	05:48
DocScrutinizer05	or any other change from a random to a more "effective" test strategy	05:48
DocScrutinizer05	or vice versa	05:49
DocScrutinizer05	most reliable metrics (though slow) are hospitalizations. Not even ICU or fatalities are free of artifacts from changes in policy and medication	05:53
de-facto	%title https://imgur.com/a/YNUgpmC https://i.imgur.com/fQKCJwJ.png	05:55
Brainstorm	de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID-19 Belgium: TESTS, CASES, POSITIVITY - Album on Imgur	05:55
de-facto	^^LjL	05:55
LjL	not even hospitalizations are	05:55
DocScrutinizer05	but the friendly bots in here reported >>EU wide new cases reaching plateau<< owtte	05:56
LjL	de-facto, so i guess despite everything, fewer people are testing positive... it's true what DocScrutinizer05 says that the strategies change of course, but in Italy on days when we have less testing, we usually have (comparatively) more cases, not fewer	05:57
de-facto	I scaled positivity by 100k to fit it onto the same y axis	05:57
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: A ‘terrifying’ COVID surge will land in Biden’s lap → https://is.gd/Op9ugi	05:57
DocScrutinizer05	hospitalizations are probably mainly suffering from a limiter effect when healthcare serices reach their capaucty	05:57
de-facto	but its weird, if they change their testing strategy to targeting symptomatic their cases/tests should raise	05:58
LjL	DocScrutinizer05, which is the case around here. i've seen footage of multiple ambulances waiting outside, not being admitted but being brought food to...	05:58
LjL	de-facto, right, so maybe their cases are really going down	05:58
DocScrutinizer05	then scratch hospitalizations numbers as indicator as well	05:59
LjL	de-facto, but they could also have a strategy of "okay, let's not test the ones who are obviously sick, let's just treat them. let's test the more dubious cases"	05:59
de-facto	yet 30% positive rate (those 30000 on the graph) is crazy high	05:59
DocScrutinizer05	measure the cueues - sorry for this sounding sarcastic. Isn't meant like this	05:59
LjL	de-facto, we've touched 25% i thing in Lombardy :(	05:59
de-facto	yet going down to 20%	05:59
LjL	think*	05:59
LjL	(i mean, we touched much more in spring, but i mean now)	06:00
de-facto	i dont trust the decline in cases until also hospitalizations and fatalities drop in Belgium	06:01
de-facto	maybe (hopefully) their incidence goes down, but if they changed their testing strategy its really hard to tell from those numbers	06:01
de-facto	i really want to know this, because its relevant for the rest of EU strategy, if they did something right there	06:02
de-facto	like really wrestle it down somehow	06:02
de-facto	maybe tomorrow i look into NL numbers, but i am too tired for now	06:02
de-facto	BE needed to write custom code, importing CSV to SQL, doing a query, and converting that into a graph	06:03
de-facto	I used this upstream here: https://epistat.sciensano.be/Data/COVID19BE_tests.csv	06:04
de-facto	btw Germany also changed testing strategy because testing capacity is overwhelmed, so they switch to symptomatic and more important targets	06:09
de-facto	i dont like that at all because it means numbers also will not be comparable to previous ones	06:09
de-facto	meh i guess we will see	06:10
de-facto	anyhow what really matters is that hospitalizations go down	06:14
de-facto	and fatalities too of course	06:14
Brainstorm	New from EurekAlert!: More economic worries mean less caution about COVID-19: Workers experiencing job and financial insecurity are less likely to follow the CDC's guidelines for COVID-19, such as physical distancing, limiting trips from home and washing hands, according to a Washington State University study. The researchers, who surveyed 745 workers [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/eGEACI	06:25
Brainstorm	New from "Cluster 5" on Wikipedia: TarkusAB: /* Timeline */ They did not commit to kill ALL minks, just "cull" the population: Timeline: They did not commit to kill ALL minks, just "cull" the population ← Previous revision Revision as of 05:31, 9 November 2020 Line 11: Line 11: {{cite web\|author=Grove Krause, Tyra\|title=Mutationer i [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/74bzDF	06:34
Brainstorm	New from "Cluster 5" on Wikipedia: TarkusAB: cull does not mean kill all: cull does not mean kill all ← Previous revision Revision as of 05:48, 9 November 2020 Line 1: Line 1: {{short description\|Outbreak of a mutated variant of the SARS-CoV-2}} {{short description\|Outbreak of a mutated variant of the SARS-CoV-2}} − "'''Cluster 5'''" is an outbreak [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/74bzDF	06:52
ryouma	i posted a link a while back about county level rt for us. anybody know what link i am talking about? it has a map of counties and hovering gets you the rt for the county. although i will take any data at country or smaller unit.	07:03
Brainstorm	Updates for Germany: +14510 cases (now 682624) since 12 hours ago — Saskatchewan, Canada: +159 cases (now 3897), +1 deaths (now 28) since 12 hours ago — France: +3493 cases (now 1.8 million) since 11 hours ago	07:05
Brainstorm	Updates for Delhi, India: +7745 cases (now 438529), +77 deaths (now 6989) since 12 hours ago — Veneto, Italy: +7177 cases (now 79269) since 14 hours ago — Lazio, Italy: +5107 cases (now 65814) since 14 hours ago — Emilia-Romagna, Italy: +2359 cases (now 71408) since 23 hours ago	07:21
Brainstorm	New preprint: Variability of Accessory Proteins Rules the SARS-CoV-2 Pathogenicity by Sk. Sarif Hassan et al, published on 2020-11-08 at https://biorxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.11.06.372227 [... want %more?]	07:22
CoronaBot	04/r/covid19: Early, low-dose, short-term methylprednisolone decreased the mortality in critical COVID-19 patients: a multicenter retrospective cohort study (80 votes) \| https://www.journalofinfection.com/article/S0163-4453(20)30696-4/fulltext \| https://redd.it/jqcv4h	07:37
Brainstorm	Updates for Georgia: +2927 cases (now 60680), +24 deaths (now 499) since 13 hours ago	08:05
Brainstorm	New from BBC Health: Covid: Firebreak lockdown ends as new restrictions begin: A mobile hairdresser and gift shop owner share their concerns as Wales' businesses reopen. → https://is.gd/5BHqGd	08:06
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express: World: Ethiopian girls trapped in sex trade as COVID-19 deepens desperation → https://is.gd/Kex4iZ	08:25
Brainstorm	Updates for Russia: +21798 cases (now 1.8 million), +256 deaths (now 30793) since 14 hours ago	09:06
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: More economic worries mean less caution about COVID-19: Workers experiencing job and financial insecurity are less likely to follow the CDC's guidelines for COVID-19, such as physical distancing, limiting trips from home and washing hands, according to a Washington State University study. → https://is.gd/gfb1pD	09:30
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Fresh off election victory, Biden turns to virus response: As he begins his transition to the presidency, Joe Biden is pivoting from a bitter campaign battle to another, more pressing fight: reining in the pandemic that has hit the world's most powerful nation harder than any other. → https://is.gd/RbxGiR	09:40
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Biden to name virus team as worldwide cases top 50 million: The global tally of people infected by the coronavirus shot past 50 million on Monday, as United States President-elect Joe Biden geared up to name the scientists who will lead the country's response to its disastrous outbreak. → https://is.gd/BY4Flt	09:58
Brainstorm	Updates for Solomon Is.: +3 cases (now 16) since 6 days ago	10:05
Brainstorm	New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: The new lockdown rules for England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland → https://is.gd/KDgKoi	10:28
Brainstorm	New from StatNews: Health: ‘They’re not really doing anything’: As Covid-19 cases spiral, leaders around the U.S. lose urgency on prevention → https://is.gd/lACOz1	10:37
Brainstorm	New from StatNews: Health experts want to prioritize people of color for a Covid-19 vaccine. But how should it be done?: “My worry is that if there was explicit racial priority given to the Covid-19 vaccine, we could be embroiled in litigation," said one health law expert. → https://is.gd/Bl39LB	10:47
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Researchers find link between food insecurity and cardiovascular death risk: Food insecurity is one of the nation's leading health and nutrition issues—about 13.7 million (10.5 percent) of households in the United States were food insecure at some time during 2019, a trend likely to increase in light of the COVID-19 pandemic. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/6WmYcf	11:06
Brainstorm	New from CNBC Health: Europe tries to shut down new coronavirus strain from Danish mink farms: Denmark's State Serum Institute has warned the mutant virus could have potentially "serious consequences" for a future Covid-19 vaccine. → https://is.gd/wVitAa	11:15
Brainstorm	New from The Indian Express (Health): Fashion: The Queen spotted wearing a face mask for the first time since the pandemic started → https://is.gd/4grLVF	11:25
Brainstorm	Updates for Iran: +10463 cases (now 692949), +458 deaths (now 38749) since 17 hours ago	12:06
Brainstorm	Updates for Switzerland: +17309 cases (now 229222), +48 deaths (now 2812) since 17 hours ago	12:35
Brainstorm	New from BBC Health: 'Mutant coronavirus' seen before on mink farms, say scientists: The coronavirus mutation found in farmed mink in Denmark has arisen in the past, genetic data shows. → https://is.gd/PtbLC3	12:41
Brainstorm	Updates for Germany: +44 deaths (now 11512) since 18 hours ago	12:50
Brainstorm	New from ECDC: Download the daily number of new reported cases of COVID-19 by country worldwide: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. You may use the data in line with ECDC’s copyright policy. → https://is.gd/zYsz7d	12:50
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +85988 cases (now 10.3 million), +383 deaths (now 243771) since 18 hours ago	13:06
Brainstorm	New from BBC Health: Covid vaccine: First vaccine offers 90% protection: The vaccine uses an experimental approach to train the immune system to fight the virus → https://is.gd/GyMGLB	13:09
CoronaBot	04/r/covid19: Pfizer Inc. - Pfizer and BioNTech Announce Vaccine Candidate Against COVID-19 Achieved Success in First Interim Analysis from Phase 3 Study (106 votes) \| https://investors.pfizer.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2020/Pfizer-and-BioNTech-Announce-Vaccine-Candidate-Against-COVID-19-Achieved-Success-in-First-Interim-Analysis-from-Phase-3-Study/default.aspx \| https://redd.it/jqwa2z	13:15
Brainstorm	New from CNBC Health: (news): Pfizer, BioNTech say late-stage trial data shows Covid vaccine is more than 90% effective in preventing infection → https://is.gd/v0K2LT	13:19
Brainstorm	Updates for Iceland: +23 cases (now 5101), +3 deaths (now 23) since 18 hours ago — Switzerland: +59 deaths (now 2823) since 18 hours ago	13:36
Brainstorm	New from CNBC Health: From lockdowns to Dr. Fauci: Here's how President-elect Joe Biden plans to fight the coronavirus pandemic: The Biden-Harris campaign laid out a plan for addressing the coronavirus pandemic that includes more testing and restoring the U.S. relationship with the WHO. → https://is.gd/jMd6Au	13:46
Brainstorm	Updates for Germany: +49 deaths (now 11517) since 19 hours ago	13:50
Brainstorm	Updates for Netherlands: +4680 cases (now 414745), +39 deaths (now 8043) since 19 hours ago	14:36
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +86682 cases (now 10.3 million), +393 deaths (now 243781) since 20 hours ago	14:51
Brainstorm	New from CNBC Health: 5 things to know before the stock market opens Monday: Dow futures soared 1,500 points at Monday's open after Pfizer and BioNTech said that data from their Covid-19 vaccine trial showed 90% efficacy. → https://is.gd/nQb3HB	14:51
Brainstorm	New from CNBC Health: (news): Pfizer CEO calls Covid vaccine a 'great day for humanity' and a 'light at the end of the tunnel' → https://is.gd/Ql2Ze1	15:01
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +88216 cases (now 10.3 million), +409 deaths (now 243797) since 20 hours ago	15:06
Brainstorm	Updates for Germany: +52 deaths (now 11520) since 20 hours ago	15:20
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Team identification supports health care worker wellness during COVID-19 pandemic: Clinicians and researchers at the Yale Department of Emergency Medicine (DEM) and Yale School of Management tracked frontline health care worker well-being during the first wave of the COVID-19 pandemic and found evidence that identifying as part [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/jr8Wah	15:29
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +89386 cases (now 10.3 million) since 20 hours ago	15:35
CoronaBot	04/r/coronavirus: Utah governor orders statewide mask mandate, new coronavirus restrictions (10007 votes) \| https://www.sltrib.com/news/2020/11/08/utah-governor-issue-new/ \| https://redd.it/jqr6rz	15:40
CoronaBot	04/r/covid19: Pfizer and BioNTech Announce Vaccine Candidate Against COVID-19 Achieved Success in First Interim Analysis from Phase 3 Study (80 votes) \| https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-vaccine-candidate-against \| https://redd.it/jqwc57	15:46
Brainstorm	Updates for Germany: +58 deaths (now 11526) since 21 hours ago	15:50
CoronaBot	04/r/coronavirus: Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine is more than 90 percent effective in first analysis, company reports (10107 votes) \| https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/11/09/pfizer-coronavirus-vaccine-effective/CT \| https://redd.it/jqw7zb	16:04
Brainstorm	Updates for Netherlands: +5367 cases (now 415432), +49 deaths (now 8053) since 21 hours ago	16:06
DocScrutinizer05	https://blog.fefe.de/?ts=a157fc93	16:16
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Portugal, Hungary hunker down against Europe's virus surge: Portugal and Hungary on Monday became the latest European countries to impose curfews against the resurgent tide of coronavirus infections and deaths lashing the continent and filing its emergency wards. But glimmers of hope emerged from France, Belgium and elsewhere [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/kbWBzC	16:16
DocScrutinizer05	hermany flattened the curve? http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/covid19_statistics.htm	16:18
DocScrutinizer05	germany even	16:18
DocScrutinizer05	even though last 4 days are not steady yet in my statistics, it looks like yesterday R_eff~=1	16:20
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +90847 cases (now 10.3 million), +419 deaths (now 243807) since 21 hours ago	16:21
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Iran's daily virus infections top 10,000: Iran's daily novel coronavirus infections crossed the 10,000 mark on Monday, the health ministry announced, setting a new record as fatalities remained close to their all-time high level. → https://is.gd/spZwQB	16:26
xrogaan	This is weird: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54867653	16:29
xrogaan	%title	16:29
Brainstorm	xrogaan: From www.bbc.co.uk: 'Mutant coronavirus' seen before on mink farms, say scientists - BBC News	16:29
Arsanerit	DocScrutinizer05: does it account for the lower number of reporting test centres on the weekend?	16:30
xrogaan	oh, don't go on the article, gruesome pictures.	16:30
Brainstorm	Updates for Germany: +71 deaths (now 11539) since 21 hours ago	16:35
kreyren	https://twitter.com/pic/media%2FEmY-FgfW8AI19bY.jpg%3Fname%3Dorig	16:35
kreyren	is there a vaccine?	16:35
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: World may be tired, but virus 'not tired of us': WHO chief: The World Health Organization's chief called Monday on everyone to keep fighting COVID-19, warning that while we may be sick of battling the pandemic, the virus is "not tired of us". → https://is.gd/X9Vw8I	16:36
DocScrutinizer05	Arsanerit: yes	16:43
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Italy virus situation 'out of control': expert: A leading health expert warned Monday that the coronavirus situation in Italy is "largely out of control", as doctors called for a new national lockdown to counter a surge in cases. → https://is.gd/kQOnlk	16:45
DocScrutinizer05	Arsanerit: what it doesn't do is nowcasting to compensate for the systemic reporting delay. Means that the last 3 datapoints and particularly the very last datapoint will change during next 3 days as reports come in	16:50
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +91363 cases (now 10.3 million) since 22 hours ago — Canada: +3972 cases (now 265355), +36 deaths (now 10534) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +73 deaths (now 11541) since 22 hours ago	16:50
DocScrutinizer05	Arsanerit: anyway the trend is stable since 2020-10-23	16:54
Brainstorm	New from CNBC Health: Dr. Scott Gottlieb, Pfizer director and ex-FDA chief, cautions Covid vaccine won't help right away: "I think we need to remember that we have perhaps a brief, but very hard stretch, ahead of us" without a widely available Covid-19 vaccine, Gottlieb told CNBC. → https://is.gd/Z2GY6n	16:54
Arsanerit	DocScrutinizer05: I had that impression. Stable is good. Stable at a level that is too high is not good...	16:59
DocScrutinizer05	the R trend points downwards, from now on numbers should go down again	17:00
DocScrutinizer05	and they gonna go down faster every day	17:02
Brainstorm	New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Virtual Simulation for Woven EndoBridge Device Sizing → https://is.gd/GTDjz2	17:04
Brainstorm	Updates for Italy: +25269 cases (now 960373), +356 deaths (now 41750) since 22 hours ago — US: +94130 cases (now 10.3 million), +423 deaths (now 243811) since 22 hours ago — Canada: +4161 cases (now 265544), +36 deaths (now 10544) since a day ago	17:05
DocScrutinizer05	Dr. Scott Obvious Gottlieb, yeah sure it will take quite a while until a significant number of people got their shot, and with this vaccine you need even two now and in 3 weeks, so in 4 weeks you're protected	17:11
yuriwho	Good News! Biden appointed Dr. Peter Bright.... the former head of BARDA and whistleblower to his Coronavirus transition team! He's the guy Trump fired after he refused to fund more human trials of Hydroxychloroquine	17:17
Brainstorm	Updates for Albania: +525 cases (now 24731), +2 deaths (now 561) since 22 hours ago	17:21
DocScrutinizer05	yuriwho: what was the rationale to refuse further funding ?	17:22
yuriwho	it was showing no benefit and possible harm in the early trials	17:25
Arsanerit	DocScrutinizer05: I hope you're right.	17:35
DocScrutinizer05	I hope the trend is stable, yes	17:36
Brainstorm	Updates for Turkey: +2576 cases (now 396831), +85 deaths (now 10972) since 22 hours ago — US: +95676 cases (now 10.3 million), +431 deaths (now 243819) since 22 hours ago — Canada: +5142 cases (now 266525), +39 deaths (now 10549) since a day ago — Germany: +94 deaths (now 11562) since 22 hours ago	17:36
DocScrutinizer05	Arsanerit: you seen the lines in second chart all pointing downwards?	17:36
DocScrutinizer05	the green and the dashed-red	17:37
DocScrutinizer05	not the last segment but the period from 2020-10-23 until 3 days ago is relevant	17:38
Arsanerit	hard to model how people will behave	17:44
Brainstorm	Updates for Maine, US: +204 cases (now 7897) since 23 hours ago — US: +95880 cases (now 10.3 million) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +64 deaths (now 2828) since 23 hours ago	17:51
Brainstorm	Updates for Reunion: +308 cases (now 6572), +1 deaths (now 28) since 2 days ago	18:05
Brainstorm	New from CNBC Health: (news): Walter Isaacson, a participant in Pfizer's Covid vaccine trial, describes what it's like → https://is.gd/DrCiat	18:10
Brainstorm	Updates for Germany: +15877 cases (now 683991), +119 deaths (now 11587) since 23 hours ago	18:20
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: EU still testing Pfizer vaccine, keeps 2021 forecast: The European Medicines Agency is still reviewing the safety of a COVID-19 vaccine submitted by Pfizer and BionNTech and has not received clinical trial data, EU sources said Monday. → https://is.gd/7r7G4C	18:30
DocScrutinizer05	Berchtesgaden full lockdown after 3 weeks proves effective. schools open again	18:34
Arsanerit	DocScrutinizer05: friendly of them to be a little ahead of the rest of germany to prove this?	18:38
Brainstorm	New from StatNews: STAT+: Why the pharma industry got lucky with Pfizer — for now: Pfizer and its Covid-19 vaccine have won the day, but the industry’s next flashpoint in the zeitgeist is always a press release away. → https://is.gd/iTSrwk	18:40
DocScrutinizer05	Arsanerit: yeah, you might put it like this	18:41
DocScrutinizer05	also interesting https://www.startpage.com/do/search?query=cluster+buster+bus+LAMP+test https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/coronavirus-vienna-begins-cluster-buster-bus-service-to-test-schoolchildren-1.4366777 kudos Austria	18:42
DocScrutinizer05	>>Accurate results can be provided within 30 minutes<<	18:45
DocScrutinizer05	https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loop-mediated_isothermal_amplification	18:45
CoronaBot	04/r/covid19: Vaccine Efficacy Data! (80 votes) \| https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/11/09/vaccine-efficacy-data \| https://redd.it/jqzyuz	18:47
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Biden implores Americans to wear masks amid vaccine progress: President-elect Joe Biden on Monday implored Americans to wear masks to slow the spread of the coronavirus, even as he cheered news about the promising development of a vaccine being developed by pharmaceutical giant Pfizer. → https://is.gd/VoVsic	18:49
Brainstorm	Updates for Spain: +38191 cases (now 1.4 million), +512 deaths (now 39345) since 2 days ago — US: +96254 cases (now 10.3 million), +432 deaths (now 243820) since a day ago	18:51
Brainstorm	New from NPR: Utah Gov. Announces Statewide Mask Mandate, Citing Steep Spike In COVID-19 Cases: Gov. Gary Herbert has declared a new state of emergency, limiting social gatherings and putting K-12 extracurricular activities on hold for the next two weeks. → https://is.gd/irGeSA	18:59
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: BioNTech: plucky German upstart leads COVID-19 vaccine race: The small German biotech firm BioNTech, started by a husband and wife team with Turkish roots, has never brought a vaccine to market before. → https://is.gd/ENFwmq	19:08
Brainstorm	New from CNBC Health: Biden coronavirus advisor Osterholm says U.S. is 'about to enter Covid hell': "What America has to understand is that we are about to enter Covid hell," Dr. Michael Osterholm told CNBC on Monday. → https://is.gd/dkqnZs	19:18
Brainstorm	Updates for United Kingdom: +21350 cases (now 1.2 million) since a day ago	19:35
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +91049 cases (now 10.3 million), +406 deaths (now 243825) since a day ago	19:50
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +105443 cases (now 10.3 million), +437 deaths (now 243857) since a day ago	20:05
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Could SARS-CoV-2 evolve resistance to COVID-19 vaccines?: Similar to bacteria evolving resistance to antibiotics, viruses can evolve resistance to vaccines, and the evolution of SARS-CoV-2 could undermine the effectiveness of vaccines that are currently under development, according to a paper published November 9 in the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/AI0xvu	20:05
Brainstorm	New from NPR: U.S. Confirmed Coronavirus Infections Hit 10 Million: The grim milestone passes as the virus that causes COVID-19 spreads out of control from coast to coast. → https://is.gd/tQNrpl	20:15
de-facto	%title https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/11/09/vaccine-efficacy-data	20:20
Brainstorm	de-facto: From blogs.sciencemag.org: Vaccine Efficacy Data! \| In the Pipeline	20:20
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +106395 cases (now 10.3 million), +448 deaths (now 243868) since a day ago — United Kingdom: +194 deaths (now 49238) since 17 hours ago	20:21
de-facto	"arlier this morning, Pfizer and BioNTech announced the first controlled efficacy data for a coronavirus vaccine. And the news is good." by Derek Lowe	20:21
de-facto	%title https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-announce-vaccine-candidate-against	20:22
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.pfizer.com: Pfizer and BioNTech Announce Vaccine Candidate Against COVID-19 Achieved Success in First Interim Analysis from Phase 3 Study \| Pfizer	20:22
de-facto	%title https://www.pfizer.com/science/coronavirus	20:24
de-facto	%title https://www.pfizer.com/science/coronavirus	20:25
Brainstorm	de-facto: From www.pfizer.com: Coronavirus COVID-19 Scientific Research and Resources \| Pfizer	20:25
de-facto	https://pfe-pfizercom-d8-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/2020-11/C4591001_Clinical_Protocol_Nov2020.pdf	20:25
de-facto	yuriwho, ^^	20:25
yuriwho	yep... looking good so far	20:29
de-facto	a lot of info to read, yet there is optimism!	20:32
Brainstorm	New from CNBC Health: (news): U.S. health officials 'very optimistic' Pfizer coronavirus vaccine and others 'could effectively end the pandemic' → https://is.gd/p9567c	20:34
Brainstorm	Updates for Germany: +18915 cases (now 687029), +148 deaths (now 11627) since a day ago — US: +103312 cases (now 10.3 million), +443 deaths (now 243874) since a day ago	20:36
de-facto	%title https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccine/BioNTech-Pfizer/mRNA-BNT162-BioNTech-Pfizer-Fosun-Pharma-University-of-Rochester-Medical-Center-URMC-Rochester-Regio	20:40
Brainstorm	de-facto: From covidvax.org: COVID-19 Vaccine: mRNA BNT162 by BioNTech, Pfizer, Fosun Pharma, University of Rochester Medical Center (URMC), Rochester Regional Health (RRH)	20:40
Brainstorm	Updates for Arizona, US: +435 cases (now 259699) since a day ago — US: +103747 cases (now 10.3 million), +454 deaths (now 243885) since a day ago	20:51
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Researchers develop protocol for a more accurate COVID-19 testing technique: One critical barrier in efforts to control the COVID-19 pandemic has been the relatively high false-negative rate of the most commonly-used Reverse Transcription Polymerase Chain Reaction (RT-PCR) testing methods. → https://is.gd/Vpx559	21:03
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +122284 cases (now 10.3 million), +513 deaths (now 243968) since a day ago	21:05
Skunny	look at this bullshit	21:07
Skunny	this is my company	21:07
Skunny	https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-dq0VaBODa0M/X6mhik6pWeI/AAAAAAAA1Xw/5q8HatnDCuQn8kDNRx9kzRtfgBiUb6-wgCK8BGAsYHg/s0/2020-11-09.png	21:07
Brainstorm	New from Medical Xpress: Testing timeline: What's ahead for COVID-19 vaccines: Pfizer's surprising news that its COVID-19 vaccine might offer more protection than anticipated—an announcement right after a fraught U.S. presidential election campaign—is raising questions about exactly how the different shots will make it to market. → https://is.gd/GKSANw	21:13
Brainstorm	Updates for Michigan, US: +9235 cases (now 238308), +63 deaths (now 8008) since a day ago — US: +118254 cases (now 10.4 million), +496 deaths (now 244031) since a day ago	21:20
Brainstorm	New from CNBC Health: (news): Travel companies cheer Pfizer Covid vaccine news as 'welcomed step' toward return in demand → https://is.gd/F5ljaQ	21:23
Brainstorm	New from CNBC Health: (news): David Bossie, who was named to lead Trump effort to challenge election results, tests positive for coronavirus → https://is.gd/jaiJCG	21:32
Brainstorm	Updates for Tennessee, US: +5919 cases (now 287770), +15 deaths (now 3610) since a day ago — Rhode Island, US: +1629 cases (now 38009), +9 deaths (now 1233) since 2 days ago — US: +123572 cases (now 10.4 million), +514 deaths (now 244088) since a day ago — Germany: +16288 cases (now 688795), +150 deaths (now 11655) since 23 hours ago	21:35
de-facto	Skunny, WOW	21:41
de-facto	cluster outbreak?	21:42
Skunny	and there's another one not listed	21:42
Skunny	and my boss asked how I think I got it	21:43
Skunny	I said work	21:43
Skunny	he said you sure? lol fucking companys	21:43
de-facto	now i am curious, how did you find out that you got it, e.g. what were the first signs of it?	21:45
Skunny	felt like I had a cold	21:46
Skunny	checked my temp and was 100.5	21:46
Skunny	took test next day	21:47
de-facto	so despite a mild fever what were the first symptoms of it?	21:47
Skunny	aches pains sweating	21:47
Skunny	runny nose	21:47
Skunny	no breathing issues	21:48
Skunny	now i just have lost of taste and smell	21:48
de-facto	so already better by now then?	21:48
Skunny	I knew some people had it too and I was working on their pc's	21:48
Skunny	yeah feeling pretty good	21:48
de-facto	glad to hear that :)	21:50
de-facto	how long since symptoms started?	21:50
Skunny	11/2	21:50
Skunny	well 11/1	21:51
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +118100 cases (now 10.4 million), +534 deaths (now 244123) since a day ago	21:51
de-facto	thats good so over a week ago, afaik viral load would be declined by now already (in the common case) yet still be careful an isolate	21:53
de-facto	*and isolate	21:54
Skunny	i have nnot left the house since my test on 11/3	21:54
de-facto	very good, i wish more people would behave so sane	21:55
Skunny	this will make snowboarding season less concerning this year	21:55
de-facto	any idea how it could spread so easily in your company?	21:55
Skunny	cause fools in the factory don't wear their mask right	21:56
Skunny	you know below the nose	21:56
Skunny	I did everything right	21:56
de-facto	so they did not take distancing and masks seriously	21:58
de-facto	i never understood why people do that, obviously all the masks have those metal in the edge to bend it over the nose properly	21:59
de-facto	what about ventilation? if welding was done there it should have quite good removal of smoke and air id guess	22:01
Brainstorm	New from PLOS ONE: A cohort study of 676 patients indicates D-dimer is a critical risk factor for the mortality of COVID-19: by Yongsheng Huang, Xiaoyu Lyu, Dan Li, Lin Wang, Yujun Wang, Wenbin Zou, Yingxin Wei, Xiaowei Wu Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19) has recently become a public emergency and a worldwide pandemic. However, the information on [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/NIhzgP	22:01
Skunny	yeah good vent but I dunno	22:03
Skunny	it could of been in the restroom too	22:03
Skunny	who knows really	22:03
de-facto	or maybe at socializing places, like when having a coffee together?	22:03
Skunny	all I know that strapping dept all got it	22:04
Skunny	no, I doon't go no where	22:04
de-facto	yeah i am just curious to learn about what might be the most dangerous scenarios	22:04
Skunny	just costco, winco and home	22:04
Skunny	once a week	22:04
de-facto	hmm do they work close together in teams at strapping dept?	22:05
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +120362 cases (now 10.4 million), +545 deaths (now 244134) since a day ago — Canada: +4198 cases (now 267515), +51 deaths (now 10567) since 23 hours ago	22:06
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +111681 cases (now 10.4 million), +494 deaths (now 244136) since a day ago	22:21
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +112662 cases (now 10.4 million), +509 deaths (now 244154) since a day ago	22:35
Brainstorm	Updates for Connecticut, US: +3338 cases (now 81463), +27 deaths (now 4698) since 2 days ago — US: +119327 cases (now 10.4 million), +538 deaths (now 244183) since a day ago	22:50
LjL	how annoying that the In The Pipeline blog doesn't really seem to be picked up by Brainstorm most of the time (even though i have it in the config)	22:57
Brainstorm	Updates for Kansas, US: +5101 cases (now 104392), +15 deaths (now 1181) since 23 hours ago — US: +128461 cases (now 10.4 million), +607 deaths (now 244257) since a day ago — Germany: +6348 cases (now 688972), +152 deaths (now 11657) since 16 hours ago	23:05
Brainstorm	New from r/Coronavirus: Do you live or work in an area currently experiencing a surge in COVID-19 cases?: How is the resurgence of COVID-19 affecting you? PBS NewsHour wants to hear from frontline doctors and nurses, essential workers, business owners and residents about the pandemic’s impact. Specifically, we’re interested in talking to people in [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/TggQFz	23:18
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +130768 cases (now 10.4 million), +621 deaths (now 244271) since a day ago	23:20
Jigsy	There's a vaccine now?	23:32
LjL	Jigsy, not exactly...	23:33
LjL	Pfizer showed efficacy	23:33
Jigsy	Ah, so it's people just taking news optimistically.	23:33
LjL	it doesn't mean it's being distributed outside of the trial yet	23:33
LjL	the news is good	23:34
LjL	in a sense there isn't a vaccine, there's a dozen or so vaccines. they just need to show they work	23:34
LjL	now one did (and possibly two if you include SinoPharm's data on Chinese who went abroad)	23:34
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +132399 cases (now 10.4 million), +639 deaths (now 244289) since a day ago	23:36
Jigsy	Everyone seems really determined to get back to a 9-to-5 job they hate.	23:38
LjL	Jigsy, that's how you interpret rushing to get a vaccine?	23:40
Jigsy	That's how I interpret most people talking about a vaccine. :P	23:41
LjL	i think that's warped through your own lens	23:41
Jigsy	Which is funny because the old way of life sucked.	23:41
LjL	so you're actually happy people are suffering and dying from this disease just so you don't have to go to work...?	23:42
LjL	or just so whoever you're talking about who hates their 9-to-5 job doesn't	23:42
Jigsy	No, no.	23:42
LjL	the old way of life didn't involve me having to produce paperwork every time i want to have a walk	23:42
LjL	i kinda liked that	23:42
LjL	i'd kinda like to go back to that	23:43
Jigsy	What is mean is, work has finally moved into the modern age.	23:43
Jigsy	Remote meetings, etc.	23:43
LjL	okay, but how exactly does that relate to a vaccine? a vaccine will fix this mess, then if you're all happy working remotely, then hopefully you'll be able to continue doing that, especially because it would be silly to do otherwise if companies found it effective	23:43
Jigsy	3>then hopefully you'll be able to continue doing that	23:44
LjL	it sounds like you're saying the existence of a vaccine jeopardizes the ability to work remotely. well, it might, but i think pretty much anyone will say it's well worth it	23:44
Jigsy	What employees want and what employers want are different things. :<	23:44
LjL	okay, true	23:44
LjL	you won't me see rooting for vaccines not working just because of that, though, sorry	23:45
LjL	in fact if you're rooting for that i'm going to think you're a bit... cynical? i don't know, i'm cynical i guess	23:45
Jigsy	I'm rooting for vaccines working and not going back to that old way of life.	23:45
Jigsy	Experience on the other hand has taught me to expect otherwise.	23:45
LjL	i just don't think you're right when you say that you interpret people being happy about a vaccine as wanting to go back to the job they hated	23:46
LjL	how about, they want to be able to walk and travel again, see relatives and friends, not have to be careful and scared all the time... even if that comes at the cost of going back to their jobs?	23:47
Jigsy	I wonder how may people will stop bothering to wear masks. ;_;;	23:47
LjL	Jigsy, i don't know, but Pzifer expects to have 1.3 billion doses by the end of 2021. that's a lot of doses, and a pretty short timeframe, and yet, it's more than a year, and just 1/8 of the world population	23:49
LjL	so yes, for some meaning of "there's a vaccine", there's a vaccine... but anyone who thinks they can throw away their FFP2s is dumb	23:50
Jigsy	End of 2021?	23:51
Jigsy	I keep seeing "end of 2020" thrown around which is optimistic.	23:51
Jigsy	Considering we're almost halfway through November now.	23:51
Brainstorm	Updates for US: +137356 cases (now 10.4 million), +672 deaths (now 244322) since a day ago — Canada: +3403 cases (now 267516) since 23 hours ago	23:51
LjL	Jigsy, end of 2021 for 1.3 billion doses. billion. ponder that. ponder how many glass vials that is.	23:52
LjL	it doesn't mean they won't have smaller numbers ready sooner, though	23:52
LjL	"end of 2020", i don't know	23:52
LjL	maybe for some healthcare workers	23:53
LjL	in some select countries	23:53
Jigsy	3>The UK’s prime minister and deputy medical adviser warned that nobody should assume the pandemic was over and let down their guard.	23:57
Jigsy	Don't see that working, somehow.	23:57
Jigsy	Considering idiots are still having parties now...	23:57
LjL	well what should "we" collectively do, hide vaccine trial results?	23:57
rpifan	good	23:58
Jigsy	No, but some people are going to read that as "pandemic over."	23:58
LjL	well aside from telling them it ain't so... i don't know what else we could do	23:59

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