libera/##covid-19/ Friday, 2020-11-20

BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): HHS Secretary Azar says Pfizer is expected to file FDA application for coronavirus vaccine Friday with Moderna soon to follow → https://is.gd/k4tNGF00:02
ryoumai cnanot shake the impressio that thanksgiving is going to make the us even more hell than it is00:02
BrainstormUpdates for US: +169175 cases (now 12.0 million), +1817 deaths (now 258071) since 18 hours ago00:08
LjLi think Brainstorm's updates had nothing that was *broken*: just, for somme reason, the thread that periodically updates the numbers died, and so the bot would only update things when someone manually called %cases. i hadn't noticed that was the... case, so i thought for some reason the thread had become strangely infrequent, instead of running periodically00:18
BrainstormUpdates for New Mexico, US: +3665 cases (now 74116), +12 deaths (now 1302) since 18 hours ago — New Hampshire, US: +528 cases (now 16277), +2 deaths (now 506) since 18 hours ago — US: +174659 cases (now 12.0 million), +1831 deaths (now 258085) since 18 hours ago00:22
BrainstormNew from "Cluster 5" on Wikipedia: Jaykaron: Spelling mistake. unlike -> unlikely: Spelling mistake. unlike -> unlikely ← Previous revision Revision as of 23:13, 19 November 2020 Line 2: Line 2: "'''Cluster 5'''" is the name given to a mutated variant of the [[SARS-CoV-2]] virus. It was discovered in [[Northern Jutland]], [[Denmark]], and is believed [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/74bzDF00:26
BrainstormUpdates for US: +175913 cases (now 12.0 million), +1848 deaths (now 258102) since 19 hours ago — Canada: +3909 cases (now 315127) since 18 hours ago00:36
BrainstormUpdates for US: +178800 cases (now 12.1 million), +1928 deaths (now 258182) since 19 hours ago — Canada: +4736 cases (now 315954), +92 deaths (now 11278) since 19 hours ago00:50
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): HHS Secretary Azar says Pfizer is expected to file FDA application for coronavirus vaccine Friday with Moderna soon to follow → https://is.gd/k4tNGF01:03
BrainstormUpdates for US: +179438 cases (now 12.1 million), +1939 deaths (now 258193) since 19 hours ago01:08
BrainstormNew from StatNews: WHO group recommends against using remdesivir to treat hospitalized Covid-19 patients: The World Health Organization says there is no evidence that the drug remdesivir improves mortality for hospitalized Covid-19 patients. → https://is.gd/AQZkmV01:15
BrainstormUpdates for France: +17709 cases (now 2.1 million) since 19 hours ago — US: +181714 cases (now 12.1 million), +1965 deaths (now 258219) since 19 hours ago — Netherlands: +4037 cases (now 468100), +58 deaths (now 8772) since 19 hours ago01:22
BrainstormNew from BMJ: Covid-19: What now for remdesivir?: It’s a cautionary tale worth remembering amid the coronavirus pandemic.Starting in the early 2000s, governments spent billions of dollars stockpiling the antiviral drug oseltamivir (Tamiflu) in... → https://is.gd/etdSjM01:28
BrainstormUpdates for US: +183115 cases (now 12.1 million), +1981 deaths (now 258235) since 20 hours ago01:36
LjL%title https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4457.short01:45
BrainstormLjL: From www.bmj.com: Covid-19: What now for remdesivir? | The BMJ01:45
LjLremdesivir looks a bit like cloroquine now01:45
BrainstormUpdates for US: +190032 cases (now 12.1 million), +2026 deaths (now 258280) since 20 hours ago01:50
BrainstormNew from NPR: Smithsonian, Other Museums Closing Again For Safety: The Smithsonian is closing its seven museums and the National Zoo in Washington, D.C. because of the recent spike in COVID cases. Other cultural institutions also announced closures. → https://is.gd/89ft4901:52
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: (news): Coronavirus: Inside test-and-trace - how the 'world beater' went wrong → https://is.gd/ZpauAH02:04
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: WHO tells doctors not to use Gilead's remdesivir as a coronavirus treatment, splitting with FDA: Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's leading infectious disease expert, has praised remdesivir, saying it would set "a new standard of care" for patients. → https://is.gd/zcqMNv02:16
BrainstormUpdates for US: +190298 cases (now 12.1 million), +2028 deaths (now 258282) since 20 hours ago02:22
Docscrhmm  >>Instead, researchers are now focusing on moderately ill patients who could still benefit from the drug if it’s given early. But considering the high price, limited stock, and now arguably limited benefits, what now for remdesivir and doctors considering using it?<<  isn't (and always was) it obvious that antiviral mediaction onlz helps during virus replication phase, so *early* in short term diseases like flu and covid, and taken 02:27
Docscrpermanently for chronic diseases like HIV?02:27
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: An ancient coronavirus-like epidemic drove adaptation in East Asians from 25,000 to 5,000 years ago (83 votes) | https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.11.16.385401v1 | https://redd.it/jxb8c802:34
BrainstormUpdates for US: +192882 cases (now 12.1 million) since 21 hours ago — Canada: +5497 cases (now 316715), +95 deaths (now 11281) since 20 hours ago02:36
BrainstormNew from Virology.ws: Cigarette smoke increases infection severity of SAR-CoV-2 in airway cells in culture: Cigarette smoking appears to be associated with more severe COVID-19, but the underlying mechanisms have not been deciphered. The results of infection of airway cells in culture with SARS-CoV-2 provide some insight. Smoking is the most important [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/QtM8GT02:40
LjLDocscr, i think based on the very confusingly conflicting trials and statements and whatnot, no, it's not obvious02:43
LjLthe article i linked to earlier is relevant https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4457.short02:44
LjLif there is no evidence that it works for very ill patients, you don't just start giving it to less ill patients because "intuitively" it may work better on them02:44
LjLthere has to be a semblance of a trial showing evidence of something. maybe not the best trial in the world, but something02:45
Docscrwhen the symtoms you look at are from overshooting reactions of your immune system to a very heavy load of pathogen, then to me it seems more than just "intuition" that you cannot cure the symtoms with a medication that simply stops the pathogen from multip[lying since that already happened when those heavy symtoms kick in02:49
BrainstormUpdates for US: +194263 cases (now 12.1 million), +2048 deaths (now 258302) since 21 hours ago02:51
Docscrthe point is not "less ill" but "more early"02:51
Docscrthe former _may_ but doesn't have to mean the former02:52
Docscrthe former _may_ but doesn't have to mean the latter02:52
LjLwell, i'm confused about what each trial did at this point02:53
LjLbut i'm just saying: if trials were "wrong" by targeting more ill / more late patients02:53
Docscrideally and with best effect you start antiviral treatmenmt before any symtoms kick in02:53
LjLthat doesn't make it right to give the drug to earlier-stage patients without a trial about that02:53
Docscryes absolutely, needs to be tested02:54
LjLanyway, at this point i'm just highly skeptical of remdesivir02:54
Docscrwhen it doesn't work late doesn't mean it must work in early stage. Might be a placebo as well02:55
LjLbasically the company that makes it is arguing against the WHO trial that finds no effect, and in favor of its own sponsored trials02:55
LjLwhen a short course of this thing costs $3000 or so, i am like... uhm02:55
Docscrto me it seems like no decent tests been done at all so far, by either side02:55
LjLso it's been almost a year, and one of the very first drugs that have been used for this disease has had *no decent tests*02:56
LjLare our world's scientists really *that* incompetent02:56
Docscrseems some are corrupted by their posiition and agenda02:59
Docscrcoung how many 'scientific' notions you find that claim >>schools are not driving it<<03:00
Docscrcount*03:00
Docscra lot of studies are set up to prove exactlz the biased notion you want to see getting established03:01
Docscrthe factors spoiling the study are not always obvious, sometimes not even to other unbiased scientists03:02
Docscrthat's what peer review is made for03:03
BrainstormUpdates for US: +196985 cases (now 12.1 million), +2079 deaths (now 258333) since 21 hours ago — New Zealand: +3 cases (now 2013) since 21 hours ago03:05
BrainstormUpdates for France: +22996 cases (now 2.1 million) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +5449 cases (now 469512), +76 deaths (now 8790) since 21 hours ago03:37
ryoumacannot read scrollbck but are you saying bad studies?  to answer your question my standard answer is "science is mankind's best hope (at least in its domain), but it does not follow that it is not profoundly screwed up" --- 18:56 <LjL> so it's been almost a year, and one of the very first drugs that have been used for this disease has had *no decent tests*18:56 <LjL> are our world's scientists really *that* incompet03:42
ryoumaent03:42
LjLso science is like democracy?03:42
ryouma'cept for them citation circles, corruption, journal motivations, politics, funding disaprities, publish  or perish, idiocy, etc. --- 19:03 <Docscr> that's what peer review is made for03:43
ryoumayou need to elaborate on that question03:43
ryoumawhe i say at least, i mean at the very least, as in it is a big deal, not at least as in in a limited capacity03:45
ryoumain the parens, which are just parenthetical03:46
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada on track to hit 20,000 COVID-19 cases a day by end of December: media → https://is.gd/DsjmwT03:52
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Anthony Fauci ‘Stunned’ That Some Still Insist Coronavirus Is ‘Fake News’ (10114 votes) | https://www.inquisitr.com/6390867/anthony-fauci-stunned-coronavirus-fake-news/ | https://redd.it/jxctgw04:16
tinwhiskersFauci should hang out here more04:18
BrainstormNew from NPR: California Announces Curfew to Curb Coronavirus Spread: Gov. Gavin Newsom said, effect Saturday, most people in most counties should be off the streets between 10 p.m. and 5 a.m. → https://is.gd/kpDv9o04:29
gigasu_shidado curfews actually do anything?04:35
tinwhiskersthey do a bit04:39
gigasu_shidai'm worried that they're just going to encourage family gatherings04:40
gigasu_shidai believe the spike we're seeing is mostly due to cooler weather setting in04:40
tinwhiskerscuts down on drunken parties and gatherings - drunk people suck at being cautious.04:40
gigasu_shidayeah that's true04:40
tinwhiskersit's a fairly pain-free measure since nothing much of value occurs then so it's low hanging fruit.04:41
gigasu_shidayeah04:45
LjLi'm not a fan of curfew, they may work depending on the hour, or make things worse04:50
LjLwith "late" curfews like we had initially at 2304:50
tinwhiskersyeah, they make people stay over the whole night04:50
LjLi think it just means more people cram their partying into a shorter amount of time04:50
tinwhiskers*may make04:51
LjLmaybe that04:51
LjLbut i was thinking, more people in the same sized pub04:51
BrainstormUpdates for Mongolia: +50 cases (now 555) since 23 hours ago04:51
LjLbecause the ones who'd go there after 23 go there earlier instead04:51
tinwhiskersI think there's some people who won't bother due to the curfews so it may reduce the number of gatherings. The people who *really* want to get together will anyway.04:51
tinwhiskersbut yeah, it may make things worse04:52
LjLi feel shit, i cough, and now i have a randomly sore muscle in my leg. i am totally not an anxious or fretting person so obviously it's not like i worry it may be COVID or anything.04:55
tinwhiskersdamn04:55
de-factonot that i would do it any better, but maybe having a proper sleep would be helpful05:05
BrainstormUpdates for Belgium: +4477 cases (now 550264), +171 deaths (now 15196) since 23 hours ago05:05
de-facto%cases Germany05:06
Brainstormde-facto: In Germany, there have been 878209 confirmed cases (1.1% of the population) and 13788 deaths (1.6% of cases) as of 6 hours ago. 26.5 million tests were performed (3.3% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.5% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.4% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data.05:06
de-factoRKI Germany: Infections +23648 (879564 total), Fatalities +260 (13630 total); source https://corona.rki.de/05:07
LjLde-facto, i can confirm the offloop sources have the numbers Brainstorm gave05:16
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Bill Gates calls coronavirus vaccine distribution 'logistically complex' - CNN Video → https://is.gd/luACBV05:16
de-facto yeah i am just comparing them every morning as soon as RKI data became available05:17
LjLde-facto, if i feel less shit at some point i'll probably install a Li server and scrape data all day like crazy05:18
de-factoheh that would be neat :)05:18
de-factoit can make a big difference, for example the data from our local city here is days ahead of the more global sources05:19
de-factoso i download the PDFs, convert them to text and extract the newest numbers from them to put them into a csv05:20
de-factowell days is exaggerates its one day ahead05:24
de-facto%cases USA05:46
Brainstormde-facto: In US, there have been 12.1 million confirmed cases (3.7% of the population) and 258333 deaths (2.1% of cases) as of 2 hours ago. 174.8 million tests were performed (6.9% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 3.4% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.05:46
de-factoDaily 192k infections and 2k fatalities in USA oO05:47
de-factoaveraged 170k infections and 1.4k fatalities with clear upwards trend05:48
de-factoalthough Reproduction Number may have went down a bit to R=1.1605:50
de-factohopefully that decline in reproduction will manifest as trend (its too early to tell i guess)05:50
de-factoyet any R>1 with such huge incidence is the horror, it has to come down to R<105:51
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Samsung wearable device sales have jumped more than 30% this year, exec says: People are buying wearable products they can use to monitor their health during the coronavirus pandemic, according to Samsung Electronics. → https://is.gd/pDPoAa06:17
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Italy to start COVID vaccinations in January → https://is.gd/s0ohUh06:41
BrainstormUpdates for Japan: +2382 cases (now 125859) since 12 hours ago — Germany: +24041 cases (now 891525) since 12 hours ago — Curacao, Netherlands: +79 cases (now 1561), +1 deaths (now 3) since 12 hours ago07:05
euod[m]> In US, there have been 12.1 million confirmed cases (3.7% of the population)07:07
euod[m]when it's percent of the population confirmed, damn. that's still a tiny portion too. 07:08
euod[m]in a year, 3.7%. 07:08
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Samsung wearable device sales have jumped more than 30% this year, exec says: People are buying wearable products they can use to monitor their health during the coronavirus pandemic, according to Samsung Electronics. → https://is.gd/pDPoAa07:42
BrainstormUpdates for Veneto, Italy: +18185 cases (now 112691) since 14 hours ago — Lazio, Italy: +16117 cases (now 94782) since 14 hours ago — Emilia-Romagna, Italy: +14746 cases (now 97814) since 14 hours ago — Puglia, Italy: +7555 cases (now 39347) since 14 hours ago07:51
metreoCanada07:57
metreo.cases07:57
Brainstormmetreo: In World, there have been 57.5 million confirmed cases (0.7% of the population) and 1.4 million deaths (2.4% of cases) as of 52 minutes ago. 941.2 million tests were performed (6.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.3% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 3.4% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data.07:57
metreo.cases Canada07:57
Brainstormmetreo: In Canada, there have been 317196 confirmed cases (0.8% of the population) and 11289 deaths (3.6% of cases) as of 7 minutes ago. 10.7 million tests were performed (3.0% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 4.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data.07:57
BrainstormUpdates for Georgia: +3768 cases (now 96860), +41 deaths (now 894) since 13 hours ago08:06
BrainstormNew from NPR: Senior Pentagon Official Anthony Tata Tests Positive For Coronavirus: Tata recently took on the duties of the undersecretary of defense for policy. He tested positive after meeting with Lithuania's defense minister. → https://is.gd/gqBhpH08:07
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: South Korea warns of return to tough COVID measures to fight third wave → https://is.gd/wXhUNm08:19
BrainstormNew from NPR: Mexico Surpasses 100,000 COVID-19 Deaths: The milestone comes just two days after the country reported one million confirmed coronavirus infections. Mexico is only the fourth country to surpass 100,000 COVID-19 deaths. → https://is.gd/tsWLru08:56
BrainstormUpdates for Russia: +24318 cases (now 2.0 million), +461 deaths (now 35311) since 14 hours ago09:20
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Wearable device sales have jumped more than 30% this year, exec says: People are buying wearable products they can use to monitor their health during the coronavirus pandemic, according to Samsung Electronics. → https://is.gd/pDPoAa09:21
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Free flu jabs offered to all over 50s in 'winter like no other' → https://is.gd/Rj2CoV09:46
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Children's Hospital Los Angeles conducts largest pediatric genomic COVID-19 study to date: When it comes to children, it is becoming clear that COVID-19 impacts them more than was initially realized. Yet there is relatively little information about SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes the disease, in pediatric populations. [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/INoNXY09:58
BrainstormNew from NPR: Australian State Cuts COVID Lockdown Short, Saying Man Lied To Contact Tracers: In South Australia, officials earlier this week imposed a strict coronavirus measures, but their decision was based in part on one man who misled health officials. → https://is.gd/0WFxIx10:10
BrainstormUpdates for US: +161564 cases (now 12.1 million), +1624 deaths (now 258354) since 15 hours ago10:20
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Official: Italy to start COVID vaccinations in January: A significant number of Italians who want to be vaccinated against COVID-19 should have received their shots by next September, Italy's special commissioner for the virus emergency said Thursday. → https://is.gd/xOWopz10:24
BrainstormNew from Il Sole 24 Ore: L'Oms raccomanda di non utilizzare remdesivir per il trattamento del Covid-19: Aggiornato la guida sui farmaci per Covid-19: sconsigliato l'uso del farmaco antivirale  nei pazienti ospedalizzati, indipendentemente dalla gravità della loro malattia → https://is.gd/vPlvXe10:36
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Opinion: A shortage of physicians with experience treating hospitalized patients could threaten the next surge response: In the U.S., most physicians stop treating patients in the hospital when they complete their residencies or fellowships. That could affect outcomes for patients hospitalized with Covid-19 and should be… → https://is.gd/Oexmqb10:49
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Diseases, Conditions, Syndromes: India's total number of coronavirus cases crosses 9 million → https://is.gd/duw5wS11:02
BrainstormUpdates for Belarus: +1457 cases (now 120847), +7 deaths (now 1081) since 16 hours ago — Finland: +461 cases (now 20747) since 16 hours ago11:06
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Superspreader events key driver in Covid-19 pandemic: At churches, on cruise ships and even in the White House, superspreading events that can sicken dozens, even hundreds, of people have illustrated the potential for the coronavirus to infect in dramatic bursts. → https://is.gd/E9Uekg11:15
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid-19: Flu jab push as Covid vaccine roll-out planned: Matt Hancock said the NHS was preparing to roll out a Covid-19 vaccine if one is approved for use. → https://is.gd/Rj2CoV12:06
BrainstormUpdates for Lithuania: +2265 cases (now 42757), +16 deaths (now 357) since 17 hours ago — Switzerland: +4946 cases (now 290601), +86 deaths (now 3913) since 17 hours ago12:06
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Covid-19 mink mutations found in humans in 7 different countries → https://is.gd/0ydD4H12:31
BrainstormNew from NPR: India Confirms 9 Million Coronavirus Infections: Only one other country — the United States — has surpassed the milestone of 9 million total cases, since the pandemic began. → https://is.gd/KVIkLH12:43
BrainstormUpdates for Palestine: +1472 cases (now 68768), +8 deaths (now 606) since 18 hours ago — Switzerland: +97 deaths (now 3924) since 18 hours ago12:52
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Pfizer and BioNTech to request emergency authorization from FDA for Covid vaccine: The FDA process is expected to take a few weeks, and an advisory committee meeting to review the vaccine has been tentatively scheduled for early December. → https://is.gd/PTNrEi13:08
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +196 deaths (now 13811) since 18 hours ago13:21
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Prior COVID-19 infection offers protection from re-infection for at least six months: A new study suggests that individuals who have previously had COVID-19 are highly unlikely to contract the illness again, for at least six months following their first infection. The study, done as part of a major collaboration between the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/PnM08213:21
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Pfizer and BioNTech to request emergency authorization from FDA for Covid vaccine: The FDA process is expected to take a few weeks, and an advisory committee meeting to review the vaccine has been tentatively scheduled for early December. → https://is.gd/PTNrEi13:33
BrainstormUpdates for US: +164247 cases (now 12.1 million), +1633 deaths (now 258363) since 19 hours ago13:35
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: Pfizer and BioNTech to Submit Emergency Use Authorization Request Today to the U.S. FDA for COVID-19 Vaccine (86 votes) | https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-submit-emergency-use-authorization | https://redd.it/jxnnmt13:44
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Second Covid wave may have peaked in France: health agency: France may be past the worst of its second wave of coronavirus infections, the country's health agency said Friday, warning however that protective measures should be kept in place. → https://is.gd/DIFP0913:45
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: N.Ireland, Scotland set for more virus curbs: Northern Ireland shops, pubs and restaurants will shut for two weeks in efforts to curb the coronavirus, the British province announced, on the eve of Friday's partial reopening of businesses. → https://is.gd/CJGjRB13:58
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +135 deaths (now 3962) since 19 hours ago14:07
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Covid reinfection 'highly unlikely' for at least six months, Oxford study says: Researchers say the findings are "exciting" because they represent an important step in understanding how Covid-19 immunity may work. → https://is.gd/cgjWXI14:10
BrainstormUpdates for US: +164249 cases (now 12.1 million) since 19 hours ago14:21
BrainstormNew from "COVID-19 pandemic in Denmark" on Wikipedia: Pardy: /* Statistics */: Statistics ← Previous revision Revision as of 13:13, 20 November 2020 Line 224: Line 224: |xAxisAngle=-60 |xAxisAngle=-60 − |x=27 Feb, 28 Feb, 29 Feb, 1 Mar, 2 Mar, 3 Mar, 4 Mar, 5 Mar, 6 Mar, 7 Mar, 8 Mar, 9 Mar, 10 Mar, 11 Mar, 12 Mar, 13 Mar, 14 Mar, 15 Mar, 16 Mar, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/58UIK314:22
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: 5 things to know before the stock market opens Friday: U.S. stock futures pointed to a mixed open Friday, in an investor sentiment tug-of-war between more encouraging Covid vaccine news and skyrocketing infections. → https://is.gd/NHvJuz14:35
BrainstormUpdates for Azerbaijan: +3169 cases (now 87163), +26 deaths (now 1079) since 20 hours ago — Netherlands: +5385 cases (now 473190), +51 deaths (now 8822) since 20 hours ago — US: +165065 cases (now 12.1 million), +1683 deaths (now 258413) since 20 hours ago14:35
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: EU chief urges gradual lifting of coronavirus lockdowns, warns of a third wave: EU's von der Leyen said European governments should lift coronavirus lockdowns and other social restrictions gradually to avoid a third wave. → https://is.gd/TqgqZp14:47
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +209 deaths (now 13824) since 20 hours ago — US: +165067 cases (now 12.1 million) since 20 hours ago14:53
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Post - November 20 | Questions, images, videos, comments, unconfirmed reports, theories, suggestions → https://is.gd/kTDiNZ15:00
BrainstormUpdates for Serbia: +6254 cases (now 110351), +30 deaths (now 1140) since 20 hours ago — US: +167611 cases (now 12.1 million), +1699 deaths (now 258429) since 20 hours ago — Netherlands: +5869 cases (now 473674), +59 deaths (now 8830) since 20 hours ago15:07
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid-19: Flu jab push as Covid vaccine roll-out planned: Matt Hancock said the NHS was preparing to roll out a Covid-19 vaccine if one is approved for use. → https://is.gd/Rj2CoV15:12
BrainstormUpdates for US: +167835 cases (now 12.1 million), +1701 deaths (now 258431) since 20 hours ago15:21
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +243 deaths (now 13858) since 21 hours ago15:35
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: 5 things to know before the stock market opens Friday: U.S. stock futures pointed to a mixed open Friday, in an investor sentiment tug-of-war between more encouraging Covid vaccine news and skyrocketing infections. → https://is.gd/NHvJuz15:37
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Don’t use remdesivir in hospitalised Covid-19 patients: WHO → https://is.gd/uwDaXL15:50
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Diseases, Conditions, Syndromes: Sewage testing is no magic bullet in our fight against COVID-19, but it can help → https://is.gd/OSwrSU16:02
BrainstormUpdates for US: +167965 cases (now 12.1 million), +1703 deaths (now 258433) since 21 hours ago16:07
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Austria orders seven million coronavirus antigen tests: The Austrian government said Friday it had ordered seven million antigen tests as part of a mass coronavirus testing drive, with teachers and police officers first in line to receive them. → https://is.gd/tnYE7V16:14
BrainstormUpdates for US: +171509 cases (now 12.1 million), +1751 deaths (now 258481) since 21 hours ago16:21
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Changes in vaping, other substance use, another side effect of COVID-19: Before the COVID-19 pandemic, information about the dangers of vaping was emerging. To investigate the potentially serious health and respiratory implications of vaping, Mayo Clinic researchers wanted to better understand the factors influencing vaping in [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ISAKCS16:27
BrainstormUpdates for US: +182900 cases (now 12.1 million), +1924 deaths (now 258654) since 22 hours ago16:35
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Obesity, age and BAME ethnicity associated with higher COVID-19 antibody levels: Researchers studying a group of UK healthcare workers discovered that non-white individuals recovering from COVID-19 displayed higher antibody levels than white individuals, with significantly greater levels observed in Asian individuals. → https://is.gd/SofRpr16:39
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Rural hospitals are under siege from COVID-19 – here's what doctors are facing, in their own words: It's difficult to put into words how hard COVID-19 is hitting rural America's hospitals. North Dakota has so many cases, it's allowing asymptomatic COVID-19-positive nurses to continue caring for patients to keep the hospitals [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/cbhq6D16:52
BrainstormUpdates for US: +182907 cases (now 12.1 million) since 22 hours ago16:53
BrainstormNew from Ars Technica: Science: First COVID-19 vaccine goes to FDA today for emergency authorization → https://is.gd/U6ytDc17:04
BrainstormUpdates for Albania: +836 cases (now 31459), +15 deaths (now 672) since 22 hours ago — US: +183056 cases (now 12.1 million), +1925 deaths (now 258655) since 22 hours ago — Germany: +292 deaths (now 13907) since 22 hours ago17:07
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: COVID-19 vaccines were developed in record time – but are these game-changers safe?: There are now two COVID-19 vaccines that, at least according to preliminary reports, appear to be 94.5% and 95% effective. Both were developed in a record-breaking 11 months or so. → https://is.gd/B06t3017:17
BrainstormUpdates for Algeria: +1103 cases (now 72755), +12 deaths (now 2236) since 17 hours ago — Italy: +37239 cases (now 1.3 million), +699 deaths (now 48569) since 22 hours ago — Arizona, US: +4471 cases (now 291696), +43 deaths (now 6427) since 22 hours ago — US: +187527 cases (now 12.1 million), +1968 deaths (now 258698) since 22 hours ago17:21
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Short and Long-term Effects of Adding Oral L-arginine to Standard Therapy in Patients With SARS-CoV-2 → https://is.gd/kbO2lH17:29
jonyromi:O 17:31
BrainstormUpdates for Turkey: +5103 cases (now 435273), +141 deaths (now 12084) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +5047 cases (now 317367) since 23 hours ago17:36
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Pharmacokinetics, Safety, and Tolerability of CSL760, an Anti- COVID-19 Hyperimmune Intravenous Immunoglobulin, in Healthy Adult Subjects → https://is.gd/cdV2zn17:41
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Short and Long-term Effects of Adding Oral L-arginine to Standard Therapy in Patients With SARS-CoV-2 → https://is.gd/kbO2lH17:55
BrainstormUpdates for US: +194335 cases (now 12.1 million), +2031 deaths (now 258761) since 23 hours ago18:07
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): Five U.S. agencies have started telling employees they could get Covid vaccine shots in as little as 8 weeks → https://is.gd/RxNtsY18:20
BrainstormUpdates for US: +201129 cases (now 12.1 million), +2099 deaths (now 258829) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +27820 cases (now 895304), +375 deaths (now 13990) since 23 hours ago18:22
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +20252 cases (now 1.5 million), +511 deaths (now 54286) since a day ago — US: +205107 cases (now 12.1 million), +2108 deaths (now 258876) since 23 hours ago18:36
BrainstormUpdates for Delaware, US: +663 cases (now 30816), +4 deaths (now 746) since 20 hours ago — US: +114049 cases (now 12.1 million), +1256 deaths (now 258880) since 20 hours ago18:50
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: COVID-19 patients survive in-hospital cardiac arrest at pre-pandemic rates: It isn't a death sentence if a COVID-19 patient suffers a cardiac arrest while getting treatment for the virus in the hospital, according to new research that contradicts reports from early on in the pandemic. The new insight from a researcher in the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/TOPyTt19:00
BrainstormUpdates for Spain: +15156 cases (now 1.6 million), +328 deaths (now 42619) since 20 hours ago — US: +117482 cases (now 12.1 million), +1282 deaths (now 258906) since 20 hours ago19:08
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: Pfizer and BioNTech to Submit Emergency Use Authorization Request Today to the U.S. FDA for COVID-19 Vaccine (10246 votes) | https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-submit-emergency-use-authorization | https://redd.it/jxno8m19:15
BrainstormUpdates for US: +138925 cases (now 12.1 million), +1506 deaths (now 259130) since 21 hours ago19:22
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Heading home for the holiday? Get a virus test, colleges say: As college students prepare to go home for the holidays, some schools are quickly ramping up COVID-19 testing to try to keep infections from spreading further as the coronavirus surges across the U.S. → https://is.gd/vz8CEI19:25
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): Five U.S. agencies have started telling employees they could get Covid vaccine shots in as little as 8 weeks → https://is.gd/RxNtsY19:38
BrainstormUpdates for US: +141846 cases (now 12.1 million), +1521 deaths (now 259145) since 21 hours ago — Canada: +3495 cases (now 318448), +47 deaths (now 11303) since 21 hours ago19:50
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Antimicrobial resistance as dangerous as pandemic: WHO: The World Health Organization warned Friday that growing antimicrobial resistance was every bit as dangerous as the coronavirus pandemic—and threatened to reverse a century of medical progress. → https://is.gd/y4B0my19:51
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Turkey records its highest virus death toll: Turkey on Friday reported 141 new deaths from the coronavirus, the highest single toll since its first recorded death in March. → https://is.gd/bfT0VX20:03
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Trump administration ready to distribute Covid vaccines if approved, 'Warp Speed' advisor says: "As soon as the EUA is approved, within 24 hours, the vaccines will be in the immunization sites and people will be immunized," Dr. Moncef Slaoui told CNBC. → https://is.gd/wIbgh220:15
BrainstormUpdates for US: +143865 cases (now 12.2 million), +1552 deaths (now 259176) since 22 hours ago20:22
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: FDA issues EUA to baricitinib plus remdesivir for COVID-19: (HealthDay)—Emergency use authorization was issued for baricitinib in combination with remdesivir for hospitalized patients with COVID-19, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration announced Thursday. → https://is.gd/LLaU0j20:28
BrainstormUpdates for US: +147639 cases (now 12.2 million), +1587 deaths (now 259211) since 22 hours ago20:36
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: UK setting up vaccine centres ready for roll-out - Matt Hancock → https://is.gd/xJqXmS20:40
BrainstormUpdates for Ohio, US: +8808 cases (now 335423), +65 deaths (now 5955) since 22 hours ago — US: +166902 cases (now 12.2 million), +1814 deaths (now 259438) since 22 hours ago20:50
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Biden Covid Advisory Board Member Dr. Michael Osterholm joined Healthy Returns livestream: President-elect Joe Biden’s Covid-19 advisory board member Michael Osterholm joins Meg Tirrell for a special edition of the Healthy Returns: The Path Forward livestream series. Osterholm is an epidemiologist and Director of the Center for [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/djTCrb20:53
lesmo%cases China21:06
BrainstormUpdates for US: +179440 cases (now 12.2 million), +1930 deaths (now 259554) since 22 hours ago — Mali: +76 cases (now 4169), +1 deaths (now 143) since 22 hours ago21:06
Brainstormlesmo: In China, there have been 89661 confirmed cases (0.0% of the population) and 4739 deaths (5.3% of cases) as of a day ago. 160.0 million tests were performed (0.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.6% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 5.3% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=China for time series data.21:06
lesmo%cases Asia21:07
Brainstormlesmo: Sorry, Asia not found. Either there aren't cases, or it's under a different name.21:08
lesmo%cases Mexico 21:08
Brainstormlesmo: In Mexico, there have been 1.0 million confirmed cases (0.8% of the population) and 100104 deaths (9.8% of cases) as of 18 hours ago. 2.6 million tests were performed (38.5% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.2% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 10.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Mexico for time series data.21:08
BrainstormUpdates for US: +188812 cases (now 12.2 million), +2021 deaths (now 259645) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +5595 cases (now 473695) since 20 hours ago21:22
euod[m]%cases us21:33
Brainstormeuod[m]: In US, there have been 12.2 million confirmed cases (3.7% of the population) and 259645 deaths (2.1% of cases) as of 14 minutes ago. 174.8 million tests were performed (7.0% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.1% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 3.4% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US for time series data.21:33
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): GOP senator in Pfizer trial urges trust in Covid vaccines: 'This is how we bring an end to this pandemic' → https://is.gd/Hze3nf21:34
BrainstormUpdates for US: +201080 cases (now 12.2 million), +2102 deaths (now 259726) since 23 hours ago21:37
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Birx says U.S. COVID cases are skyrocketing as holidays approach: The new coronavirus is spreading across America with unprecedented speed, the White House Coronavirus Task Force said in its first briefing in four months on Thursday. → https://is.gd/o36OL521:47
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +21718 cases (now 899927), +260 deaths (now 14048) since 23 hours ago — US: +203080 cases (now 12.2 million), +2113 deaths (now 259737) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +4094 cases (now 319047), +57 deaths (now 11313) since 23 hours ago21:51
metreo1.cases Canada21:58
Brainstormmetreo1: In Canada, there have been 319047 confirmed cases (0.8% of the population) and 11313 deaths (3.5% of cases) as of 14 minutes ago. 10.7 million tests were performed (3.0% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 1.0% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 4.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Canada for time series data.21:58
BrainstormUpdates for US: +207804 cases (now 12.2 million), +2130 deaths (now 259754) since 23 hours ago22:05
BrainstormNew from PLOS ONE: Energy transfer and influencing factors in soil during compaction: by Jie Li, Xiaohong Bai, Fuli Ma In China, large-area excavation and filling engineering has increased rapidly with the expansion of construction land. The quality of filling engineering is the most important guarantee for the stability of building structures. Among [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/kNVfsB22:14
ryoumaidk what up to means.  but this is an extraordinary claim if it means anything significant.  has this been discussed?  --- "Japan hasn’t had many antibody studies, but the one they did have showed rates up to 50%+ in working people in Tokyo, yet still almost no deaths."22:18
tinwhiskersThat's surprising.22:19
tinwhiskersI don't see any link.22:19
BrainstormUpdates for US: +192894 cases (now 12.2 million), +1849 deaths (now 259820) since 22 hours ago — Germany: +9783 cases (now 901308), +286 deaths (now 14074) since 15 hours ago22:23
BrainstormNew from PLOS ONE: Hospital admissions during Covid-19 lock-down in Germany: Differences in discretionary and unavoidable cardiovascular events: by Elisabeth Stöhr, Adem Aksoy, Meghan Campbell, Muntadher Al Zaidi, Can Öztürk, Julia Vorloeper, Jonas Lange, Atsushi Sugiura, Nihal Wilde, Marc Ulrich Becher, Christian Diepenseifen, Ulrich Heister, Georg [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/b4YOP922:27
ryoumawhat are the other irc channels?22:31
rpifanhm22:33
rpifani heard we are getting less flu because of the lockdown as well22:33
gigasu_shidahello tinwhiskers 22:35
tinwhiskershey gigasu_shida22:36
gigasu_shidabrainstorm is giving us civil engineering feeds22:36
BrainstormUpdates for Syria: +88 cases (now 7079), +5 deaths (now 368) since a day ago — US: +195152 cases (now 12.2 million), +1872 deaths (now 259843) since 22 hours ago22:37
tinwhiskersgigasu_shida: ah. it will have matched a keyword that LJL has set. Probably not a lot of them though.22:37
gigasu_shidaoh ok makes sense22:38
BrainstormUpdates for US: +195897 cases (now 12.2 million), +1876 deaths (now 259847) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +10134 cases (now 901659), +288 deaths (now 14076) since 15 hours ago — Switzerland: +113 deaths (now 3992) since 23 hours ago22:51
LjLgigasu_shida, tinwhiskers: lol yeah, the regex doesn't actually tell me what is being matched so it's a hunt when this happens22:53
LjLalthough i thought PLOS ONE was medical but i've added so many journals i previously knew nothing about, that i may very well be confused22:53
LjLuh well that's nice, i've NO idea. i ctrl+f'd almost every single word in my regex and they didn't match22:56
LjLryouma, what are you quoting from about Japan? i'm not finding this statement on the web22:59
gigasu_shidahehehe22:59
LjLi have a non-Japanese friend in Tokyo and it would be kind of important to know if the virus is everywhere but just doesn't make Japanese people sick due to some genetics...22:59
LjLgiven that antibody study were reliable, the study i would run immediately after, if it were up to me, would be to see if there's a difference in fatality between native Japanese and immigrants23:00
ryoumasome reddit thing about some genetics asians less susceptible thing 20ky ago asians adapted to similar virus or such23:03
ryoumathere was a study in scrollback too23:03
LjLhmm yeah that's a theory i've heard before, a much weaker version of SARS having been around for a while23:04
ryoumaalso study asians in the usa or uk etc. which i think the above one was23:04
ryouma.08:39 <Brainstorm> New from Medical Xpress: Obesity, age and BAME ethnicity associated with higher COVID-19 antibody levels: Researchers studying a group of UK healthcare workers discovered that non-white individuals recovering from COVID-19 displayed higher antibody levels than white individuals, with significantly greater levels observed in Asian individuals. → https://is.gd/SofRpr23:04
LjLi don't see any study about japan in the scrollback though23:04
ryoumatghat's probalby different study23:05
ryoumahang on23:05
tinwhiskersme neither23:05
LjLoh, the Japanese have a *very* much lower average daily calorie consumption than other developed countries23:05
BrainstormUpdates for Oregon, US: +1302 cases (now 62175), +4 deaths (now 812) since 23 hours ago — US: +199642 cases (now 12.2 million), +1915 deaths (now 259886) since 23 hours ago23:05
LjLso if obesity or even being mildly above your ideal BMI plays a role (it may not, complete guess), that might explain Japan being different23:05
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Diseases, Conditions, Syndromes: Toronto goes back into lockdown because of a surge in cases → https://is.gd/fsxFVr23:05
tinwhiskersbut 50% is a lot23:06
LjLtinwhiskers, yeah it really is, but even if it turned out it was a crappy antibody study using crappy antibody tests, even the worst of the worst doesn't have a 50% false positive rate...!23:07
LjL(probably)23:07
tinwhiskersmmm23:07
tinwhiskerswell, they were claiming things like 50% in New York ages ago, which turned out to be complete nonsense, so I wouldn't rule anything out, but yeah, it may well be higher there.23:08
LjL50%? i remember it being implausibly high but 50% is just ridiculous23:09
LjLthere should be, like, a way to search the internet23:09
tinwhiskerslol. I may be remembering it worse than it was :-)23:10
ryoumai have a few minutes max to decide whethyer to go to an oral surgeon on monday to get 4 teeth extracted.  dentist who did nothing 2w ago or so referred me.  that dentist had better precautions than most.  however, when called, oral surgeojn office soudnsed bad.  very busy office patients in and out knows nothing about ventilation, no special precautions for covid other than wiping down, etc.  covid curve in az is ri23:10
ryoumasing rapidly could get much much worse.  but already bad, office looks bad.  if ONE tooth gets infected i can supposedly get it extracted at dentist with better than usual  precautions.  but he did not have the skills to extract 4 at a time (my request was to not hafve multipke trips beacuse of health issues).  leaning toward cancelling but i am not fully awake.  if cancel can maybe reschedule.  the extra time will 23:10
ryoumaallow me to recover from going to prev dentist but will allow covid to rise even higher, and we don't know for sure when appt will be, hough they fit us in quickly this time perhaps due to the referral.23:10
LjLand i may remember it better i.e. renormalized back to something that at least makes sense23:10
tinwhiskersI have this suspicion we're seeing some sort of cross-antibody response showing up, which can happen with ELISA tests and whatnot. Cowpox, smallpox being the best example.23:10
LjLryouma, i doubt you will find many dentists who will extract FOUR teeth in one session and also not screw it up completely23:11
tinwhiskerssuch a thing might also explain some of the pre-chinese SARS-Cov2 observations23:11
tinwhiskersnot that I want to gopen that can of worms again.23:12
LjLryouma, also have you skipped right past root canals and fillings, direct to extraction?23:12
LjLtinwhiskers, go to page 4 of the study (iirc) and look at how many different PCRs targeted to different parts of the genome they ran :P23:12
ryoumadentist said fillings would not last, cavities near or at root, surprised i am not having reallyb ad issues now.  i was out of it due to orthostatic intolerance and being jostled during transportation there.  but root canals idr.  in the usa there is a specialty called oral surgeon which is more training than dentist but not doctor training.23:13
LjLtinwhiskers, also i will remind you that in the final study (as opposed to the preprint) they sequenced the Spike protein as well as ORF1ab, and found some samples of it 100% identical to the ones in the first 2 cases in italy23:13
LjL(which were a Chinese couple)23:13
LjLfirst known cases, anyway23:13
ryoumaentire mouth a mess according to dentist23:13
tinwhiskersthe fragments they tested were all a 100% match, yes.23:14
LjLryouma, if a cavity is near the root that generally means a root canal is recommended. extraction is very much a last resort at least around here23:14
tinwhiskerswhich is of course different from a 100% matching sequence.23:14
tinwhiskersbut may well mean it is a 100% match23:15
LjLtinwhiskers, yes, the fragments however include the full spike protein, so considering that's what we're targeting (many) vaccines against, that's kind of significant23:15
tinwhiskersyeah23:15
LjLtinwhiskers, also honestly when we have the full ORF1ab and the full S protein, i don't understand why it can't be placed on the phylogenetic tree. i could simply guess that it's a NextStrain rule to only host full genome, and there's no other actual reason23:16
ryoumaidk if root canal is an option or a good idea.  the extradctions are going to affect chewing.  but that dentist and prev dentist (who had previously said nothing about how bad the teeth were) seem to be saying i am likely looking at dentures.23:16
tinwhiskersperhaps23:16
Jigsy%cases world23:16
BrainstormJigsy: In World, there have been 58.0 million confirmed cases (0.8% of the population) and 1.4 million deaths (2.4% of cases) as of 12 minutes ago. 944.5 million tests were performed (6.1% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.3% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 3.4% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=World for time series data.23:16
JigsyNearly 60 million...23:16
LjLryouma, how many missing teeth do you already have23:16
ryoumaidk when curve would go down in usa.  idk if lockdowns could prevent this kind of urgent treatment.  or even emergency treatment.23:16
ryoumadunno maybe 4-6 molars23:17
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Daily COVID-19 deaths in US reach highest level since May: The surging coronavirus is taking an increasingly dire toll across the U.S. just as a vaccine appears close at hand, with the country now averaging over 1,300 COVID-19 deaths per day—the highest level since the calamitous spring in and around New York City. → https://is.gd/WTUFyM23:17
LjLryouma, i can't say things based on parameters i don't know, however, based on what you did say, i *personally* would cancel23:18
ryouma(i was rather upset that after all those antibiotics, the prev dentist's partner extracte da tooth that maybe did not need to be extracted)23:18
LjLpersonally meaning it may not be the best choice for you or match your goals23:18
ryoumaon the basis of?23:18
LjLit's what i would do if it were me23:18
LjLryouma, you kept saying bad things about his office and his practices23:18
tinwhiskersI'm surprised we haven't heard more from China PR about the virus starting somewhere prior to being found in Wuhan.23:18
LjLryouma, extracting 4 teeth in *one session* alone seems like a dodgy practice to me23:18
LjLryouma, i know it's preferred for your situation, but it's still dangerous23:18
tinwhiskersI mean, other than the silly, "it started in the US" taunts.23:19
LjLryouma, and if you have the money to spend for inlays, you can probably have good enough teeth for chewing after a root canal. that would involve multiple sessions, too, though.23:19
LjLtinwhiskers, oh i think i've seen chinese articles mentioning how italy &co found earlier evidence23:20
tinwhiskersIt'd be unlike them to take a moral high-ground.23:20
tinwhiskersoh. ok23:20
LjLtinwhiskers, but also much of what China publishes is published in Chinese only, and that's a bit of a barrier to seeping into here23:20
tinwhiskersmaybe that's it23:20
ryoumawhat a time to kill the buffer by accident...23:20
LjLryouma, should i paste back what i typed?23:20
ryoumasure23:21
LjL<LjL> ryouma, extracting 4 teeth in *one session* alone seems like a dodgy practice to me23:21
LjL<LjL> ryouma, i know it's preferred for your situation, but it's still dangerous23:21
LjL<LjL> ryouma, and if you have the money to spend for inlays, you can probably have good enough teeth for chewing after a root canal. that would involve multiple sessions, too, though.23:21
ryoumaall we know about precautions at oral surgeon is receptionist.  dentist with (let23:21
ryouma's say) good precautions said oral surgeon would have same precautions.  seems a contradiction.23:21
LjLalso <LjL> ryouma, you kept saying bad things about his office and his practices23:21
ryoumaalso said i would be in and out quickly for 4 extractions.  i think in usa it is not uncommon to have multiple teeth extracted.  but i havef hyperalgesia nd if ther eis higher risk of complications that is an issue.  idk what dentist would have told me if i had not told hium i had issues with being transported and orthostatic intolerance.23:22
BrainstormUpdates for Kentucky, US: +3816 cases (now 152206), +20 deaths (now 1762) since 23 hours ago — US: +204570 cases (now 12.2 million), +1939 deaths (now 259910) since 23 hours ago23:23
ryoumaso it's perhaps the word of the dentist saying same precautions agains the receptionist who didn't seem aware of any precations.23:23
tinwhiskershttps://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3110576/coronavirus-italian-paper-origins-pandemic-hit-backlash23:23
LjLryouma, in the USA it's also common to put the patient asleep. can you tolerate that?23:23
tinwhiskershttps://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3110731/coronavirus-china-not-origin-disease-top-scientist-says23:23
rpifanwhat you mean?23:24
rpifanuh south china post?23:24
rpifanwe should believe them?23:24
LjLryouma, can't you tell the receptionist to have the actual dentist (or oral surgeon) call you back and give you more detailed information, given it's a complex situation?23:24
tinwhiskersYeah... The point was the narrative *from china*23:24
LjLi consider SCMP semi-reputable, for that matter23:24
tinwhiskersalso that23:24
LjLit's a Hong Kong paper, so it will probably go down the toilet soon, but for now...23:25
tinwhiskerstrue :-)23:25
LjLand aside from the headline (but which paper doesn't have trash headlines?), the "Coronavirus: China not the origin of the disease, top scientist says" makes sure to mention in the article text that the actual study authors deny that this changes the origin23:26
LjLi also owe it to SCMP that it was one of the earlier papers providing a detailed tracker of cases and other related info (back when it was mostly in China) before other trackers existed beyond "n number of cases at place p"23:28
tinwhiskersFrom more government aligned news outlets: https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-07-19/Wastewater-becoming-a-key-tool-in-tracing-COVID-19-in-Italy-SeA86XQFGw/index.html23:28
tinwhiskersThat was back in June23:28
tinwhiskersOh. July23:29
LjLwell, for starters23:29
LjL"Italy is working to establish a national network of sewage testing for COVID-19" ← if we are, then it's clearly taking a very long time23:29
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Dutch say ready to roll out vaccine pending approval: The Netherlands is ready to roll out coronavirus vaccines to some 3.5 million people in the first quarter of next year, the health minister announced on Friday. → https://is.gd/x7pW0A23:30
tinwhiskershttp://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1207518.shtml23:30
tinwhiskers%title http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1207518.shtml23:30
Brainstormtinwhiskers: From www.globaltimes.cn: Epidemiological investigations on Tianjin suggest Wuhan COVID-19 outbreak may have come from abroad - Global Times23:30
LjLi think i read that one23:30
LjLglobaltimes definitely rings a bell on being one of the "not us!" papers23:30
tinwhiskersOK. I'm done. They have been reporting it anyway.23:30
LjLtinwhiskers, btw if you forget to type %title you can also just type %title on its own and it should grab the previous line23:31
tinwhiskersI wonder why it isn't doing the rounds more with the "nutters".23:31
tinwhiskersLjL: ah. ok23:31
LjLtinwhiskers, because the nutters hate China :P23:31
tinwhiskersMaybe I've just stopped listening to the nutters enough now :-p23:31
LjLand, god, i hate simplified chinese characters23:31
LjLso ugly23:31
tinwhiskersoh. right23:31
LjL(i just noticed an ugly one in the picture on that article)23:32
LjL(and another)23:32
ryoumanothing was said about anaethesia.  my guess would be no anaesthesia for 4 teeth.  (but for the rest of my teeth (later, for dentures) maybe anaesthesia which yes, i would have to study that to find out what i ssafe)23:33
ryoumawe were told by receptionist that pulling 4 teeth was not more painful afterward than pulling 1 tooth except that it is a larger area of mouth23:34
LjL"China's monitoring system and techniques enabled medical workers to find and track COVID-19 in the early stage of transmission in Wuhan, Zhou said. "But that doesn't necessarily mean that Wuhan was the birth place of the virus," he said." ← haha sure they found it there because they're GOOD at finding them!23:34
ryoumait is molars, upper and lower23:34
LjLryouma, i think full anaesthesia is rarely employed, but they use various types of more or less deep sedation, starting with nitrous oxide23:35
LjL(which they are now *starting* to use in Italy too)23:35
LjLryouma, it may not be more painful but you'll be on a completely liquid diet since you have basically no areas of the mouth you can chew with, and if infection develops you have four sites to handle at a time23:36
tinwhiskersI was just given locals for the tooth I had pulled. 23:36
ryoumai can chew with front teeth23:36
ryoumabut yes it will be hell on gi to be eating cottage cheese only23:36
LjLryouma, you said you could probably reschedule if you don't do it now. i say that you don't have enough information and the practice seems dodgy enough that based on what you say, i mean, i'm not deciding for you, you just don't *sound* like you're a fan of this option23:37
BrainstormUpdates for US: +208916 cases (now 12.2 million), +1975 deaths (now 259946) since 23 hours ago23:37
LjLtinwhiskers, yes but the US makes much more liberal use of nitrous oxide and other types of sedation during dentistry work than most other countries do23:37
tinwhiskersah. ok23:37
LjLtinwhiskers, to be fair i wouldn't have minded some additional painkilling when they pulled my wisdom teeth. it was pretty painful23:38
tinwhiskersI'm thankful I don't get nitrous or I'm liable to make an idiot of myself23:38
LjLin fact i still have one because i was just like "not another time"23:38
LjLalthough the wisdom teeth were not fully erupted which i understand makes it worse23:39
LjLhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_sedation_dentistry23:39
LjL(assume the article is written from a US perspective since it doesn't mention country differences)23:39
ryoumai have never had pain during extraction.  only after and had varying levels from basicallyy none to soemthing that required a spcial thing that i have dodgy ccess to.23:39
de-factoHey LjL feeling better today? 23:39
LjLyeah thanks de-facto i'm okay today23:39
de-factooh how nice, very glad to hear that :))23:40
tinwhiskersnice23:40
LjLit was probably just from sweating and catching cold when i went to fetch that ridiculously large and heavy package the other day23:40
LjL(it's a tape deck, though no one asked)23:40
tinwhiskersheh. cool23:40
de-factohehe neat from 1984? :)23:40
LjLde-facto, well we *bought* that set in 1984 but the model is from 1981 or 1982 :P23:40
de-factonice that kind of tech really survives decades still23:41
tinwhiskersI dread to think what I've said and done while I'm under sedation.23:42
ryoumaleaning toward cancelling because receptionist comments on covid were not clearly in direction of them havint mugh precautions.  weird that the dentist (who i would other wise trust-ish) said they did.   but also thinking i might be insane given covid curve.  bit yes i akm reassured by possibility (only a possibility) of rescheduling.  not clear if i will come up with more information soon and am  completely  bad ad23:42
ryouma decision making due to execuytive dysfunciton.23:42
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Covid-19 tests imported from South Korea were 'flawed': WPost: Coronavirus tests imported from South Korea by the governor of the US state of Maryland were flawed and ended up not being used, The Washington Post reported on Friday. → https://is.gd/IuNy4j23:42
ryoumawhat i will say under sedation is not a concern for me as i am deleting it as a consideration.  even if i say horrible things.  alli care about is health including pain.  that makes my decision less complex.23:43
ryoumabut if they do use anything other than carbocaine (epi-free local anaesthesia) then i need to know about it and plan in advacnce23:43
ryoumafor health reasons23:43
de-factoi wonder if we will see another all time record high in daily new cases tomorrow in Germany23:44
de-factotodays +23648 are already pretty high and usually it still raises for Fridays and Saturdays23:45
de-factolike reporting the previous day ofc23:45
ryoumaas it is 24h in business time i am going to ask to have asked 1) can oral surgeon consult on covid precautions and whether any type of anaesthesia), and 2) can dentist clarify about oral surgeon covid precautions.  but it is too late probably for cancellation; need to cancel anyway.23:45
de-factoi think the "Lockdown light" is not working properly as i predicted its not enough23:45
de-factowe still need  LOT more contact rate reduction, so i hope they will go for the real thing on next week or such23:46
de-factoi am not so optimistic as some others because i try to separate observations from hope23:47
LjLde-facto, https://pic.infini.fr/yGJvnbrP/nGAlK5Nd.jpg23:48
LjLit's a bit dark so the picture is a bit bad23:48
Skunnyomg23:48
Skunnydope af LjL23:49
SkunnyI need a beer23:49
LjLthe fluorescent displays are cool23:49
de-factowhoa that looks very neat23:50
LjLi don't think many amplifiers have a VU meter (although the amplifier isn't the part i bought now)23:50
Skunnyis that a TDK chrome or metal tape lol23:50
LjLSkunny, sorry to disappoint, it's normal :P23:51
LjLmost of the tapes i have are just ferric23:51
BrainstormUpdates for US: +202551 cases (now 12.2 million), +1893 deaths (now 259964) since 23 hours ago23:51
LjLi was planning to buy some more decent tapes after i bought a supposedly nice yamaha deck (this Pioneer one is just cool to look at and i got it because it's the one i had as a kid that later broke, but it's nothing special quality-wise), but then the supposedly nice deck is actually performing badly, and i wanted to take it to a repair shop but then i stalled and now there's a lockdown, so... i gave up on buying the tapes as well23:52
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Covid-19 vaccine: the next steps: With US pharmaceutical giant Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech applying for an emergency use authorization in the United States for their coronavirus vaccine and US biotech company Moderna expected to do so soon, here are the next steps in the approval and distribution process: → https://is.gd/3YHABK23:54
LjLbut also, i'd have probably bought normal tapes anyway, because tapeline's chrome tapes (tapeline.info) are rumored to sometimes(?) have a defect that makes them "harsh" and grind tape heads, which, eeeek23:54
Skunnythey were kind of flat sounding23:54
LjLand i wouldn't know where to buy new tapes aside from tapeline, unless i buy new-old tapes for ridiculous prices on ebay23:55
Skunnycheck out what I bought last week one sec23:55
LjLSkunny, which ones were kind of flat sounding?23:55
Skunnyhttps://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-p6QZ8xkFnbo/X7hJbBAStqI/AAAAAAAA1sw/loPo8gNG4q4W6xbSMeR7wOtIUR3DPrIJwCK8BGAsYHg/s0/2020-11-20.png23:55
Skunnythe chrome and metal23:55
ryoumathe other thing is i believe thanksgiving wll be a superspreader event, and the dentist is now closed for the next week so i can't ask him why he said oral surgeon precautions were as good as his.  hmm, but oral surgeon can answer that if i can talk to him i suppose.  so the risk is getting an apointment any time after monday could run into after thanksgiving, perfect for asymptomatic transmission after the superspr23:55
ryoumaeader evcent.23:55
SkunnyI loved my DAT recorder doh23:56
LjLthat's like a lot of buttons23:56
Skunnyit's a radio23:56
Skunnyto talk to the world23:56
LjLi can see that :P23:56
SkunnyI need to get a nice anntena23:56
LjLi'd get one but then i'd get arrested for not having a license23:57
SkunnyI just got mine the other day23:57
Skunnynational volunteer examiner coordinator23:57
LjLi have an rtl-sdr, and previously i had a (old but digital, bought used) scanner that unfortunately broke23:57
SkunnyI got a intel nuc coming so I can set it up with the radio23:58

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