| Brainstorm | New from "COVID-19 pandemic in Denmark" on Wikipedia: 2804:D59:898F:5800:A55E:890E:F57F:6937: /* Timeline */: Timeline ← Previous revision Revision as of 23:01, 1 December 2020 Line 37: Line 37: ==Timeline== ==Timeline== − From late January to early February, several groups of Danish citizens were evacuated from China. All were placed in quarantine [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/58UIK3 | 00:04 |
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| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Psychologist Says Tailored Messaging Is Key For Effective Public Health Policy: Officials need to understand communication styles and preferences in order to convince people to follow health guidelines. Gaurav Suri says psychology should inform how officials set public policy. → https://is.gd/z6t84L | 00:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +4996 cases (now 383135), +64 deaths (now 12194) since 23 hours ago | 00:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: 'Mum test' not enough to convince people to get the COVID-19 jab: The 'Mum test', invoked by England's deputy chief medical officer, Professor Jonathan van- Tam, to reassure Britons of COVID-19 vaccine safety, won't be enough to convince people to get the jab, warns the Drug and Therapeutics Bulletin. → https://is.gd/404FqK | 00:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: CDC panel says health workers, nursing homes will get Covid vaccine first: A CDC panel voted 13-1 to give health workers and long-term care facility residents the first Covid-19 vaccine doses once it's cleared for public use. → https://is.gd/W9WUpW | 00:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Health workers, long-term care facilities should get Covid-19 vaccine first, CDC advisory panel says: Health care providers and residents of long-term care facilities should be at the front of the line for Covid-19 vaccine, a committee that advises the CDC said Tuesday. → https://is.gd/P9KkSQ | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from FDA Press Releases: FDA: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: December 1, 2020 → https://is.gd/Tangd9 | 01:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Curacao: +124 cases (now 2503), +3 deaths (now 7) since a day ago — France: +3169 cases (now 2.3 million) since 22 hours ago — Netherlands: +3178 cases (now 529734), +38 deaths (now 9446) since 22 hours ago | 01:21 |
| euod[m] | > ...shows a photo on a cellphone showing wrist bands that indicate COVID positive or negative during a swingers convention in New Orleans Saturday November 14, 2020. | 01:22 |
| LjL | O.o | 01:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Cyprus: +318 cases (now 10883) since a day ago | 01:53 |
| bin_bash | what | 01:56 |
| euod[m] | ref "After swingers convention in New Orleans, 41 test positive for coronavirus, organizer says" https://www.nola.com/news/article_59c7a560-33db-11eb-8639-dffaf4948c1c.html | 02:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: Trump Covid vaccine czar says side effects 'significantly noticeable' in 10% to 15% of recipients: Trump's Covid vaccine czar said Pfizer's and Moderna's vaccines are safe, with only 10% to 15% of volunteers reporting "significantly noticeable" side effects. → https://is.gd/4dJqCr | 02:08 |
| LjL | can't stop stupid | 02:08 |
| LjL | (from a reddit comment) | 02:21 |
| LjL | Here in the UK we have postal tests. You can order a test through the app, website or phone line and it arrives the next day or same day (7 days a week) with packaging to safely post it to the testing centre through priority mail, all completely free. In addition we have walk in and drive in test centres as well as mobile testing. | 02:21 |
| LjL | Our government is a bit of a joke (bunch of incompetent crooks) but the job of setting up the largest mass testing environment in our history hasn't gone too badly (sadly the track and trace is a failure by all accounts). | 02:21 |
| LjL | color me surprised, i thought the UK was being pretty dysfunctional but that sounds much better than here | 02:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: CDC panel says health workers, nursing homes will get Covid vaccine first: A CDC panel voted 13-1 to give health workers and long-term care facility residents the first Covid-19 vaccine doses once it's cleared for public use. → https://is.gd/W9WUpW | 02:32 |
| tinwhiskers | good to see that logical move confirmed ^ | 02:41 |
| dzho | they haven't managed entirely to gut the NHS yet | 02:42 |
| dzho | (that's in re: the test-by-post thing) | 02:42 |
| dzho | a GSV no less | 02:46 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for New Zealand: +1 cases (now 2060) since a day ago | 02:53 |
| tinwhiskers | RE: NZ. Yet another case in quarantine. Still no more community cases since Nov 18. | 02:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Japan parliament passes bill to provide free covid vaccinations → https://is.gd/O8axcg | 03:42 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Leaked government map reveals almost entire US is a Covid hotspot (10297 votes) | https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/covid-hotspot-us-government-map-b1764747.html | https://redd.it/k4ujz2 | 04:22 |
| LjL | %vax johnson | 04:22 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Researcher: Janssen (Johnson & Johnson), Country: Belgium + USA, Trial start: Jul 13, Vaccine type: Ad26 | 04:22 |
| LjL | that's an adenovirus vaccine, do we have any efficacy info yet? | 04:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Coronavirus epidemic was spreading in US last Christmas, long before it was identified in China, new study finds → https://is.gd/42QAHy | 04:56 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +1867 cases (now 579212), +141 deaths (now 16786) since a day ago | 05:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Japan Parliament Passes Bill to Provide Free Covid Vaccinations → https://is.gd/2ckpxS | 05:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Singapore becomes first country to approves sales of lab-made meat. Singapore is moving quickly to allow the sale of cultured meat, a move that fits into its broader food-security agenda. In response to the pandemic, Singapore is trying to produce 30% of its own food by 2030, up from under 10% today → https://is.gd/v7gmiZ | 05:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virology.ws: Trial By Error: Thoughts on The Observer, The Guardian, and Paradigm Shift: By David Tuller, DrPH Earlier this week, I blogged about a story in The Observer that provided an inaccurate description of what it called chronic fatigue syndrome. For much of the piece, the writer, Eleanor Morgan, offered a sympathetic portrait of [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/AmfpXa | 06:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: CDC experts voted: Here’s who should get the first COVID-19 vaccine shots → https://is.gd/XyzTUI | 06:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Covid could have been in US as early as December 2019. Virus found in blood samples taken by American Red Cross on December 13, 2019 → https://is.gd/UH4oSz | 06:58 |
| gigasu_shida | will most countries get free covid vaccinations? | 06:59 |
| tinwhiskers | My guess is no, but it really is a guess | 07:00 |
| euod[m] | I imagine like free birth control, the payback for a government covid vaccinations would be crazy | 07:02 |
| tinwhiskers | Of course some countries will be free, but I think most will have a small fee for a clinic visit, a bit more for a doctor or hospital visit, but I guess many will subsidise those who can't afford it. | 07:03 |
| euod[m] | I don't think "clinic visit" really sums up what needs to happen. | 07:03 |
| tinwhiskers | yes, "clinics" are already planned to be the major method in some places. | 07:03 |
| euod[m] | we've never really tried to vaccinate potentially a whole population in a short timeframe before right? | 07:03 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, so there will be temporary clinics set up | 07:04 |
| euod[m] | right sorry, to me that's distinct to just booking your normal clinic | 07:04 |
| tinwhiskers | maybe we're just thinking of different definitions of clinic | 07:04 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah | 07:04 |
| euod[m] | right | 07:04 |
| euod[m] | no doubt, the US being the US, they'll be first to have drive by vaccination shootings or whatever. mass plots to try to subvert the tyranny being protected from a deadly virus. | 07:06 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah :-/ | 07:06 |
| tinwhiskers | and if you don't have medical insurance you'll be at the back of the queue | 07:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kazakhstan: +42447 cases (now 175565), +444 deaths (now 2434) since 2 hours ago — Germany: +24766 cases (now 1.1 million) since a day ago — Curacao, Netherlands: +124 cases (now 2503), +3 deaths (now 7) since a day ago — Cayman Islands, United Kingdom: +11 cases (now 285) since 3 days ago | 07:07 |
| euod[m] | I have the right to bear arms! my viral load is my bullet! | 07:09 |
| gigasu_shida | sorry my internet is bad | 07:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +187076 cases (now 14.1 million), +2624 deaths (now 276979) since 17 hours ago | 07:21 |
| Brainstorm | New preprint: The N-glycosylation sites and Glycan-binding ability of S-protein in SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus by Wentian Chen et al, published on 2020-12-01 at https://biorxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.12.01.406025 [... want %more?] | 07:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Stockholm, Sweden: +5978 cases (now 76802), +11 deaths (now 2699) since 4 days ago — Skane, Sweden: +2881 cases (now 28748), +31 deaths (now 416) since 4 days ago — Kiev, Ukraine: +1799 cases (now 72277), +31 deaths (now 1323) since 23 hours ago — Moscow Oblast, Russia: +1104 cases (now 112130), +21 deaths (now 2092) since 23 hours ago | 07:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): UK becomes first country to approve the Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine for use → https://is.gd/7uhwDz | 08:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid Pfizer vaccine approved for use next week in UK → https://is.gd/7pzk4T | 08:35 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: UK authorises Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (89 votes) | https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-authorises-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine | https://redd.it/k54lvi | 08:48 |
| de-facto[m] | %title https://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKKBN28C0OU | 08:56 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto[m]: From uk.reuters.com: UK approves Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine, first in the world | Reuters | 08:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: Roche's coronavirus antibody test gets emergency use authorization from the U.S.: Roche has received emergency use authorization from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for a new test that measures levels of Covid-19 antibodies. → https://is.gd/czAoAA | 09:12 |
| de-facto | RKI Germany: Infections +17270 (1084743 total), Fatalities +487 (17123 total), ICUs 3941 (incl. 2362 ventilated, 59.93%) | 09:20 |
| de-facto | .cases Germany | 09:20 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: In Germany, there have been 1.1 million confirmed cases (1.3% of the population) and 17359 deaths (1.6% of cases) as of 2 hours ago. 27.9 million tests were performed (3.9% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.5% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 2.2% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Germany for time series data. | 09:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: UK approves Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine, rollout due next week: The U.K. on Wednesday authorized the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for emergency use, making it the first coronavirus shot to be backed by rigorous science. → https://is.gd/7uhwDz | 09:25 |
| genera | 17270 vs 24766 | 09:35 |
| de-facto | %title https://imgur.com/a/EOr3t42 https://i.imgur.com/u0zRJGa.png source: https://www.intensivregister.de/#/aktuelle-lage/zeitreihen | 09:38 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: COVID-19 Germany: ICU beds occupied - Album on Imgur | 09:38 |
| de-facto | genera, 24766? | 09:44 |
| genera | says Brainstorm | 09:45 |
| de-facto | huh? where? | 09:45 |
| de-facto | ah yeah now i see it, Updates for Kazakhstan: +42447 cases (now 175565), +444 deaths (now 2434) since 2 hours ago — Germany: +24766 cases (now 1.1 million) since a day ago — Curacao, Netherlands: +124 cases (now 2503), +3 deaths (now 7) since a day ago — Cayman Islands, United Kingdom: +11 cases (now 285) since 3 days ago | 09:47 |
| de-facto | well it always depends on the reporting pipeline, but one thing is clear: containment in Germany is non sufficient to bring new infections down, hence i still would define it to be out of control (because noone could want that many daily new infections) | 09:48 |
| genera | rite | 09:48 |
| de-facto | despite them calling it "Lockdown" its a joke compared to what other countries achieved with containment | 09:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid Pfizer vaccine approved for use next week in UK → https://is.gd/7pzk4T | 09:50 |
| de-facto | meanwhile the Brits give the BioNTech vaccine from Germany the first approvement worldwide | 09:51 |
| genera | Management triggers restrictions only at 50 (7day incidence) which leads to every county having 50 | 09:51 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Estonia: +522 cases (now 13019), +1 deaths (now 122) since a day ago | 09:52 |
| de-facto | yeah and since that "red traffic light" was simply ignored by all Ministers back when incidence was increasing from below 50 now every region being beyond 50 we have no chance for triggering a proper lockdown anymore? | 09:52 |
| de-facto | (sorry for that sarcasm, its really frustrating how this is not handled properly) | 09:53 |
| de-facto | again i would suggest to take the median weekly national incidence value (half of regions below, half of them above) and force all regions above that value into a proper lockdown (e.g. removing ALL federal funding in case of no cooperation) | 09:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: US panel: 1st vaccines to health care workers, nursing homes: Health care workers and nursing home residents should be at the front of the line when the first coronavirus vaccine shots become available, an influential government advisory panel said Tuesday. → https://is.gd/Prhl3N | 10:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: CDC to shorten COVID-19 quarantine to 10 days, 7 with test: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is set to shorten the recommended length of quarantine after exposure to someone who is positive for COVID-19, as the virus rages across the nation. → https://is.gd/FjoSIn | 10:15 |
| de-facto | hummm? The *median* incubation time is 5.2 days, meaning *half* of infected become symptomatic *after* that, so if they would use antigen-quicktests they probably only will become positive hours before symptoms would occur | 10:18 |
| de-facto | with PCR it might be like 48 hours before becoming symptomatic | 10:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Japan residents to get free COVID-19 vaccine: Japan will give free coronavirus vaccines to all of its residents under a bill passed Wednesday, as the nation battles record numbers of daily cases. → https://is.gd/rl7mug | 10:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: UK approves Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine, rollout due next week: The U.K. on Wednesday authorized the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for emergency use, making it the first coronavirus shot to be backed by rigorous science. → https://is.gd/7uhwDz | 10:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Immigrant Woman Starts Food Pantry In Her Home To Help Undocumented Families: When Xiomy De la Cruz saw her neighbors losing their jobs during the pandemic, she decided to help feed them. Many were unable to access government benefits because of their immigration status. → https://is.gd/PNGvev | 11:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: U.K. approves Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine, putting pressure on FDA: The United Kingdom on Wednesday became the first country to approve a Covid-19 vaccine developed by Pfizer and its partner BioNTech, a decision that will likely put pressure on the… → https://is.gd/knoT8Q | 11:17 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: UK approves Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine, rollout due next week: The U.K. on Wednesday authorized the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for emergency use, making it the first coronavirus shot to be backed by rigorous science. → https://is.gd/7uhwDz | 11:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine approved for use next week in UK → https://is.gd/7pzk4T | 11:53 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +485 deaths (now 17388) since 23 hours ago | 12:06 |
| de-facto | :(( | 12:06 |
| de-facto | every 3 minutes, congratz Ministers, well done :((( | 12:08 |
| de-facto | i hope this will have consequences for them, this is unacceptable management :(((( | 12:13 |
| de-facto | HIGHEST incidence is at the most vulnerable groups of age 80+ in Germany https://corona-data.eu/media/ger/png/Germany_incidence.png | 12:14 |
| de-facto | this is absolutely unacceptable. | 12:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Who will get the Covid vaccine first?: The Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine has been approved by the UK regulator - when will it be available? → https://is.gd/VYjcP8 | 12:19 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Pfizer and BioNTech Achieve First Authorization in the World for a Vaccine to Combat COVID-19.The UK has become the first country in the world to approve the Pfizer/BioNTech coronavirus vaccine for widespread use. (81 votes) | https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-achieve-first-authorization-world | https://redd.it/k54rar | 12:19 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +4786 cases (now 335660), +106 deaths (now 4976) since 23 hours ago | 12:20 |
| de-facto | hopefully the ministers loose all the votes from citizens that understand that not protecting the elderly is no solution to the demographic challenge and that its unacceptable to treat them like this since the older contributed their whole life | 12:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine approved for use next week in UK → https://is.gd/7pzk4T | 12:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from ECDC: Download the daily number of new reported cases of COVID-19 by country worldwide: The downloadable data file is updated daily and contains the latest available public data on COVID-19. You may use the data in line with ECDC’s copyright policy. → https://is.gd/zYsz7d | 12:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine approved for use next week in UK → https://is.gd/7pzk4T | 13:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: UK approves Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine, rollout due next week: The U.K. on Wednesday authorized the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine for emergency use, making it the first coronavirus shot to be backed by rigorous science. → https://is.gd/7uhwDz | 13:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: WHO recommends masks indoors if ventilation poor: The World Health Organization on Wednesday recommended wearing facemasks when indoors with other people, if the ventilation has been deemed inadequate, in an update to its COVID-19 guidance on masks. → https://is.gd/LkEGjO | 14:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Frontrunners in race for COVID-19 vaccine: Dozens of companies, from biotech start-ups to Big Pharma, are in the race to develop a safe and effective coronavirus vaccine, both to meet urgent medical need and for the potential payday. → https://is.gd/eGT9BI | 14:35 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +3451 cases (now 532444), +61 deaths (now 9504) since 23 hours ago | 14:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Italy offers free virus vaccines, starting with doctors: Italy will give all its citizens free vaccinations against coronavirus starting with doctors and care home residents once the jabs are approved, its health minister said Wednesday. → https://is.gd/fAWtmz | 14:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Post - December 02 | Questions, images, videos, comments, unconfirmed reports, theories, suggestions → https://is.gd/faBN7z | 15:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for US: +188055 cases (now 14.1 million), +2498 deaths (now 277021) since 23 hours ago | 15:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Scientists use ultraviolet light to disinfect CT scanners: The COVID-19 pandemic has sparked heightened awareness of cleaning and disinfecting procedures in many industries. Health care facilities have long been familiar with protocols for disinfecting tools and equipment, and now, scientists are studying methods to improve [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/P2dVdC | 15:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: STAT+: Pharmalittle: U.K. approves Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine; Trump pressures FDA to approve Covid-19 shots: The U.K. became the first country to approve a Covid-19 vaccine developed by Pfizer and BioNTech, a decision that will likely put pressure on the FDAto move swiftly to do… → https://is.gd/tb0hY8 | 15:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: Slack co-founder says he was a work from home skeptic until the pandemic hit: Slack co-founder Cal Henderson said had his doubts about whether companies could work from home before the coronavirus pandemic. → https://is.gd/sXETkl | 15:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Smiling sincerely or grimacing can significantly reduce the pain of needle injection: The coming of winter means cooler temperatures, shorter days and flu shots. While no one looks forward to a vaccination, a study led by the University of California, Irvine, has found that either a sincere smile or a grimace can reduce the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/4IDHg6 | 16:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: 'We will not forget our colleagues who have died': two doctors on the frontline of the second wave: During the first wave of coronavirus in April, we wrote about our experiences as frontline healthcare workers in Liverpool. While working on COVID-19 wards, we described the stark psychological and health vulnerabilities faced by [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/I6AWpi | 16:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Putin orders 'large-scale' vaccinations to start next week: Russian President Vladimir Putin told health officials Wednesday to start widespread vaccinations next week, adding that the country had produced close to 2 million doses of its Sputnik V vaccine. → https://is.gd/Lwxk4M | 16:28 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +5345 cases (now 385191), +109 deaths (now 12246) since 23 hours ago | 16:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Pfizer vaccine approved: Here's what the next few months will look like: The U.K. has become the first country to approve the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine for widespread use. The government has ordered 40 million doses and the first batch of 800,000 doses is expected to be shipped from Belgium – where the vaccine is being [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/zF0tL1 | 16:41 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: UK authorises Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (10183 votes) | https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-authorises-pfizer-biontech-covid-19-vaccine | https://redd.it/k54g9j | 16:45 |
| Jigsy | 3>When you get the COVID vaccine, you should not expect immediate protection against infection. | 16:46 |
| Jigsy | Amount of people doing that will probably be near zero. | 16:46 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Arizona, US: +3840 cases (now 340979), +52 deaths (now 6739) since 21 hours ago — Netherlands: +4670 cases (now 533672), +66 deaths (now 9509) since 19 hours ago | 16:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Researchers testing children across British Columbia for COVID-19 antibodies: As COVID-19 cases continue to rise in British Columbia, a critical question remains on the role babies, children, teens and young adults play in transmission of the novel coronavirus. → https://is.gd/w9lBj1 | 16:53 |
| darsie | Will the next cv be novel coronavirus, too? | 17:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): COVID-19 Nasal Swab Trial → https://is.gd/nyhZ5h | 17:06 |
| tinwhiskers | Will the next [new] coronavirus be novel (new) coronavirus? Yes?? | 17:07 |
| darsie | Will they call the now novel cv old cv, then? Or will they keep calling both novel cv? | 17:09 |
| tinwhiskers | darsie: ahhh :-) | 17:14 |
| tinwhiskers | It seemed a good idea at the time :-/ | 17:14 |
| tinwhiskers | I imagine we'll just start calling this one covid because SARS-Cov2 is annoying. We might well call the next one "novel coronavirus" when it emerges though. | 17:17 |
| tinwhiskers | Although I guess the next coronavirus disease will also be covid... Hrm | 17:18 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Mississippi, US: +2457 cases (now 156868), +15 deaths (now 3851) since 20 hours ago — Moldova: +1717 cases (now 110580), +20 deaths (now 2343) since a day ago | 17:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +20709 cases (now 1.6 million), +684 deaths (now 57045) since a day ago — United Kingdom: +16170 cases (now 1.7 million), +648 deaths (now 59699) since a day ago | 17:38 |
| LjL | tinwhiskers: noveler coronavirus | 17:52 |
| tinwhiskers | Problem solved | 17:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: STAT+: Covid-19 vaccines will arrive before the data sharing technology that could help track them: Site visits to public health agencies around the country have revealed a heavy reliance on paper documents and fax machines to collect and share data on Covid-19 tests. → https://is.gd/8lJZTk | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | moin | 18:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: Watch live: Trump administration officials speak on Covid vaccine distribution: The departments of Health and Human Services and Defense are holding a joint briefing on the Trump administration's coronavirus vaccine program. → https://is.gd/ihkA21 | 18:21 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Johnson & Johnson Announces Initiation of Rolling Submission for its Single-dose Janssen COVID-19 Vaccine Candidate with the European Medicines Agency (80 votes) | https://www.janssen.com/emea/news-center/news-releases | https://redd.it/k58brx | 18:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid-19: Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine judged safe for use in UK from next week: The UK is the first country to approve the Pfizer vaccine - with 800,000 doses due to arrive in the coming days. → https://is.gd/7pzk4T | 18:34 |
| LjL | ! | 18:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Kidney disease leading risk factor for COVID-related hospitalization: An analysis of Geisinger's electronic health records has revealed chronic kidney disease to be the leading risk factor for hospitalization from COVID-19. → https://is.gd/NQvNaW | 18:47 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +9331 cases (now 1.7 million), +273 deaths (now 45784) since 21 hours ago | 19:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Telemedicine use disparity during COVID-19 among head and neck cancer patients: The use of telemedicine services has shown to be exceptionally effective in meeting the health care needs of patients throughout the COVID-19 pandemic. But an analysis by Henry Ford Health System found that socioeconomic factors may affect certain [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/IpZ7ya | 19:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Q&A: COVID-19 and multisystem inflammatory syndromes in children and adults: DEAR MAYO CLINIC: I have been hearing about this pediatric syndrome that affects children with COVID-19. A friend recently said it can affect adults, too. Can you explain what these syndromes are and what I need to do to keep my family safe? → https://is.gd/p2QsmD | 19:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: Britain's Covid vaccine approval could 'set the pace for the rest of the world': The U.K.'s decision to grant emergency approval to Pfizer and BioNTech's vaccine will likely lead other countries to quickly follow suit, one economist said. → https://is.gd/peudJb | 19:36 |
| Jigsy | I see the UK's rolling out the egotism. | 19:41 |
| Jigsy | "We're the first ones in the world to do it!" | 19:41 |
| blkshp | Hell yeah! | 19:47 |
| blkshp | U HU K, U HU K. | 19:47 |
| blkshp | Oh wait, that's generally not us is it. | 19:48 |
| de-facto | Phase IV trials in UK? | 19:53 |
| Jigsy | I think they skipped that. | 19:53 |
| de-facto | Whats about AstraZeneca, are they going to redo their phase III now or extend on the ongoing ones? | 19:54 |
| Jigsy | 3>“If we relax too soon, if we just kind of go, ‘Oh, the vaccine’s here, let’s abandon caution,’ | 19:55 |
| Jigsy | Which is what people will do because they're idiots. | 19:55 |
| Jigsy | I still see people not wearing masks outside. | 19:55 |
| de-facto | oh this will be a big topic, like people claiming their immunity refusing to wear masks, disputing if they can be contagious etc pp | 19:56 |
| Jigsy | Even the pub down the road from where I am is back open... | 19:56 |
| de-facto | maybe even fake certificates (hopefully not) | 19:56 |
| de-facto | hopefully this will not be like a reverse effect, amplifying transmission because people begin to act stupid | 19:57 |
| Jigsy | Well, lockdown ended today... | 19:57 |
| Jigsy | ...with 16K/cases. | 19:57 |
| Jigsy | So... | 19:57 |
| de-facto | too early. | 19:57 |
| Jigsy | It's dropped from about 10K, but it's going to go back up again. | 19:57 |
| Jigsy | Not to mention the idea of "longer store opening times for Christmas," "stores can open for 24hrs." | 19:58 |
| Jigsy | It's going to be interesting watching the cases creep back up again. | 19:58 |
| Jigsy | And there's still that clusterfuck of Brexit to look forward to. | 19:58 |
| de-facto | well distributing shopping over more time will decrease density | 19:58 |
| de-facto | so thats better than restricting it to few hours where people will run elbowing for their stuff | 19:59 |
| Jigsy | I can't evision people buying Christmas gifts at two AM, though. | 19:59 |
| de-facto | yeah indeed | 20:00 |
| Jigsy | If anything, I'm seeing people panic buying Christmas gifts. | 20:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: EU throws shade as UK approves COVID-19 vaccine after 10-day review → https://is.gd/JKKoZ3 | 20:01 |
| de-facto | if vaccination could have been done in a massive effort, like all people in one month such problems (together with fading immunity and escaping mutations) would be much less probable | 20:02 |
| Jigsy | Trying to vaccinate everyone in a month doesn't seem feasible. | 20:03 |
| Jigsy | Manufacture, distribution, etc, etc. | 20:03 |
| de-facto | yeah production would have to scale massively, otherwise its basically a logistics problem | 20:03 |
| Jigsy | Boris Johnson did say it would take months, so... | 20:03 |
| Jigsy | That seems quite realistic. | 20:03 |
| de-facto | how is it like? primer dose, 4 weeks pause, booster dose, 1 week after booster first signs of immunity? | 20:04 |
| Jigsy | But considering how inept the UK has been dealing with the entire COVID-19 affair, can't say I buy the "It'll be over by Spring" talk. | 20:05 |
| Jigsy | Next Fall maybe. | 20:05 |
| de-facto | they probably need mobile teams visiting elderly homes, because those are not mobile enough to visit vaccination centers | 20:05 |
| Jigsy | I think it's 6w after the initial dose? | 20:05 |
| de-facto | something like that | 20:05 |
| Jigsy | I'm still wondering what the long term side-effects are. | 20:06 |
| de-facto | long covid? | 20:06 |
| de-facto | or from vaccinations? | 20:06 |
| Jigsy | From the vaccines. | 20:07 |
| de-facto | im not sure, but do those mRNA even contain any adjuvants? | 20:07 |
| de-facto | i think i heard they would not contain them | 20:07 |
| de-facto | i think there is no reason yet to assume there will be widespread longterm side-effects from those mRNA vaccines, yet for sure we probably only will know next winter | 20:09 |
| de-facto | like if there are none after one year the probability is very low there still would appear some | 20:10 |
| de-facto | but for sure we will read some horror stories in the boulevard magazines, just because if everyone gets vaccinated the most rare side effects also will be visible for some very rare individual cases | 20:11 |
| de-facto | still much better than what covid does to many people, afaik there are some that struggle with longterm effects after months and some severe cases have visible changes to their lungs in x-rays or computer tomographic scans even after their recovery | 20:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: EU defends vaccine trials as UK gives first OK: EU officials insisted Wednesday that the bloc has not fallen behind in the race to deploy a coronavirus vaccine, as former member Britain authorised one that Europe is still evaluating. → https://is.gd/L3ASkr | 20:14 |
| de-facto | like if you get a necrosis because of a micro-thrombus (or bigger one) its real damage that may last | 20:14 |
| de-facto | the headlines already begin to get crazy over this, please let them do their work properly | 20:14 |
| LjL | de-facto, well, let me paste what someone who isn't here posted, without even *waiting* for the horror stories in tabloids, just to show the mindset of certain people... | 20:18 |
| LjL | "the public aren't assured, with good reason - they have the facts; they don't need no steenkin' propaganda. rushed vaccine, untested, no liability, unknown side effects other than it will lead to mass hospitilisation to the point hospitals cannot cope, where the side effects ('cure') are worse than the disease" | 20:18 |
| de-facto | i just have one hope: lets not allow politicizing science this one time, please? | 20:21 |
| de-facto | we need transparency and open statistics for the most recent available info | 20:22 |
| de-facto | all data should be published without exception, it should be mandatory and maybe sha256 hashes stored in a blockchain, like Satoshi proof with tiny BTC transactions containing the hash as comment or such | 20:23 |
| ubLIX[m] | O_o | 20:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): CDC says 14-day quarantine best way to reduce Covid risk, but 10- and 7-day periods work in some cases → https://is.gd/S88vFp | 20:26 |
| LjL | de-facto, that sounds like it's unlikely to happen | 20:29 |
| de-facto | there is nothing more important than to proceed in a way that deserves and gains peoples trust because thats essential for success by vaccination | 20:29 |
| LjL | i mean Reddit didn't even allow me to report the "disappeared" Chinese paper | 20:29 |
| de-facto | they didnt? | 20:30 |
| LjL | de-facto, no, they deleted my comment with the re-upload | 20:30 |
| de-facto | interesting, did they say why? fear of copyright or such? | 20:32 |
| LjL | de-facto, https://paste.ee/p/vUTvX#pnI83y3EQe1GusR4oTgERzoOZ9Q5GzPX | 20:32 |
| LjL | i think they conflate the concept of a "source" with the concept of a "website" but if you take for example wikipedia, they distinguish between those, and allow archived pages | 20:33 |
| LjL | of course it's possible to argue that a given website is not trustworthy enough to be sure it actually archived the source accurately | 20:33 |
| LjL | but it looks like they don't even get to the point of reaching that distinction | 20:33 |
| LjL | and the final "time will tell"... meh, time will not tell, these things get forgotten | 20:34 |
| LjL | i can either shrug and forget it myself, or make a scene in r/censorship and see if anything happens | 20:34 |
| LjL | (but r/censorship is small and mostly ignored) | 20:34 |
| LjL | > "but im sure someone will investigate what the issues were" | 20:36 |
| LjL | yeah, unless WE do because YOU allow me too, really, no one will | 20:36 |
| de-facto | hmm they want it to remain a mystery until someone else gets into trouble for solving it, meh | 20:37 |
| LjL | de-facto, also, they didn't heed my request to put a sticky or anything | 20:38 |
| LjL | at least let people who click on the thread know what's going on, and why they get a 404 | 20:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from CNBC Health: (news): Cuomo warns Covid surge to last through January, expects first NY vaccine doses by Dec. 15 → https://is.gd/gXupcn | 20:38 |
| de-facto | maybe someone feared that newspapers would cite too much on it trying to invalidate Wuhan as official epicenter and the paper not being scientific enough to hold up their claims, hence calling their boss to shut it down before such things happen? | 20:41 |
| de-facto | purely speculation of course | 20:42 |
| LjL | de-facto, but newspapers already did it, the Global Times (chinese) first in line | 20:43 |
| de-facto | yes they started with it already indeed | 20:43 |
| LjL | in fact if i were to guess (and i am!) i'd say the whole purpose of the paper was for it to get cited as "scientific evidence" by the Global Times | 20:43 |
| LjL | but then, that's also the purpose of pulling it | 20:43 |
| LjL | now the article talks about a paper that "was about" to the published in The Lancet, but nobody can read it anymore and see how bullshit it was | 20:44 |
| LjL | when people here read it they immediately thought it was bullshit if you recall, like, the paper itself sounded like a tabloid newspaper instead of a scientific paper | 20:44 |
| de-facto | i mean their method was interesting, and with their supplemental people could have rerun the analysis, now its all not verifiable anymore | 20:44 |
| de-facto | but also not provable wrong... | 20:45 |
| de-facto | so pulling it basically will ensure one thing: that it will remain uncertain | 20:46 |
| LjL | de-facto, was their supplemental ever actually available? i ask because of https://www.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/k2doss/the_early_cryptic_transmission_and_evolution_of/ge2ahgg/ | 20:47 |
| de-facto | i dont know, i only have read the paper after it was pulled, they mention supplemental, but i have not seen any links on the archived website | 20:48 |
| LjL | and i don't know whether that comment was posted before or after it was pulled | 20:49 |
| LjL | anyway, it's a detail. just as you say, they've ensure it will all remain uncertain | 20:49 |
| de-facto | anyhow from what i have seen their claims were not really backed up with strong evidence but appeared more like suggestive to me, i kind of missed their "red line or arguing" and exclusions of potential alternatives | 20:50 |
| LjL | FUD as they say | 20:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Putin Tells Russia To Begin Large-Scale Vaccination For Coronavirus: Vaccination will be voluntary, and will begin with health care workers and people with chronic medical conditions. Russia's Sputnik V vaccine is still in clinical trials. → https://is.gd/gXl9RI | 20:51 |
| de-facto | so say it frankly: i dont buy their line of arguing from that paper | 20:51 |
| de-facto | so to say it frankly: ... | 20:52 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Kansas, US: +3736 cases (now 163969), +119 deaths (now 1679) since 13 hours ago — Canada: +5512 cases (now 387017), +116 deaths (now 12301) since 23 hours ago | 20:52 |
| LjL | de-facto, have you had a look at the other paper by the same three authors? it's much tamer in its language, but although my understanding is limited, i think it's based on the same... line of reasoning, and probably data too | 20:52 |
| LjL | not sure about the data. they never mention Italy or India explicitly, that's as much as i ascertained | 20:52 |
| de-facto | i downloaded it but havent read it yet | 20:52 |
| LjL | but it's easy to avoid it, just by mentioning, for instance, genome sequence accession numbers instead | 20:52 |
| LjL | then it becomes much harder for the layman to understand what they're getting at | 20:53 |
| de-facto | do they provide data for the alternative version? | 20:53 |
| LjL | de-facto, i don't know to be honest, article must be purchased, you probably gave us the uhm "liberated" link but... | 20:55 |
| LjL | meanwhile https://japantoday.com/category/politics/japan-enacts-law-to-make-coronavirus-vaccines-free-to-residents | 20:55 |
| LjL | Although the revised law strongly recommends that people get inoculated, the government will allow individuals to refuse if the efficacy and safety of vaccines has not been proved sufficiently at the time of approval. | 20:56 |
| LjL | In the event that vaccination causes serious side effects, the revised law states the government will cover medical expenses and disability pensions as part of relief measures and shoulder damages on behalf of the vaccine suppliers. | 20:56 |
| LjL | they are making vaccine makers not liable, like in the US | 20:56 |
| LjL | and... didn't i just hear someone else passing the same rule? UK? EU? not sure | 20:56 |
| de-facto | huh? i thought the alternative version is this here https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ympev.2020.107017 | 20:57 |
| de-facto | thats freely downloadable | 20:57 |
| de-facto | %title | 20:57 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From doi.org: Redirecting | 20:57 |
| de-facto | lol | 20:57 |
| LjL | de-facto, uh... does that take you to elsevier? because it takes me quickly to elsevier but that redirects back immediately to https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S105579032030289X?via%3Dihub | 20:58 |
| LjL | which... has the PDF downloadable | 20:58 |
| LjL | on elsevier -.- | 20:58 |
| LjL | sorry i'm confused | 20:58 |
| LjL | but they make it a bit confusing | 20:58 |
| de-facto | yeah their linking dance between hostname is interesting to say the least | 20:59 |
| LjL | well, i can't see an attachment with data or anything | 21:00 |
| LjL | but you may be interested in the fancy graphs on the last pages | 21:01 |
| LjL | also | 21:01 |
| LjL | In our first analysis, we used 168 SARS-CoV-2 sequences (GISAID dataset till 2020/03/04) to identify the basal clade which contains 33 identical viral sequences from seven countries. To our surprise, in our second analysis with 367 SARS-CoV-2 sequences (GISAID dataset till 2020/03/17), the basal clade has 51 viral sequences, 18 more sequences added. The much larger NCBI dataset shows that this clade has expanded with 85 unique | 21:01 |
| LjL | sequences by 2020/04/04. | 21:01 |
| LjL | maybe one can just verify it by looking at the sequences they look at. tedious but possible? | 21:01 |
| LjL | We used MUSCLE 3.8.31 to perform the alignment for all SARS-CoV-2 sequences with default parameters (Edgar, 2004). The alignment results were trimmed with an in-house Perl script to remove any gap or ambiguous site | 21:02 |
| LjL | in-house perl script should be provided i guess | 21:02 |
| de-facto | so basically they went from invalidating Wuhan and blaming others to just invalidating Wuhan? | 21:02 |
| LjL | well let's say tedious AND difficult | 21:02 |
| LjL | de-facto, i'm not really sure i understand what they're trying to do with these two papers | 21:03 |
| LjL | i mean, as i said i have my guess about the other one | 21:03 |
| LjL | but how it interacts with this one... dunno | 21:03 |
| LjL | in this one they never actually say "it didn't originate in Wuhan", either | 21:04 |
| LjL | they merely allude to it | 21:04 |
| de-facto | i am pretty sure nothing from China is going to be published that dont goes confirm with the CCP line of strategy (whatever that is) | 21:04 |
| de-facto | *conform | 21:04 |
| LjL | "The COVID-19 epidemic first broke out in early December, 2019, in Wuhan City, China. The news reported that SARS-CoV-2 was associated with a sea food market in Wuhan, but its origin is still shed in mystery." | 21:04 |
| LjL | this is the closest this paper has to "It didn't originate in Wuhan" | 21:04 |
| LjL | which is a far cry from the other paper | 21:04 |
| LjL | which said, literally, it was IMPOSSIBLE for it to have originated in Wuhan | 21:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Vermont, US: +222 cases (now 4461), +2 deaths (now 74) since a day ago | 21:06 |
| de-facto | yeah that two times and "Thus, the origin of SARS-CoV-2 remains unknown. | 21:06 |
| de-facto | yes indeed they claimed that in the first version | 21:07 |
| de-facto | so with such a strong claim they easily would be proven to make wrong claims | 21:08 |
| de-facto | if all they want to achieve is generating doubts about the Wuhan origin the second version probably also is sufficient but less attack-able because it leaves open questions, hence strategically more clever | 21:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine cleared: UK gets first shot next week → https://is.gd/KFKFBW | 21:16 |
| de-facto | In the movie "Contagion" they had a lottery when the first vaccines became available, so people could win one of the rare shots there | 21:22 |
| de-facto | they they got a little armband with RFID that confirmed their immunity status | 21:23 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, there doesn't seem to be much thought put into how we're going to deal with immunity passports and allocation | 21:27 |
| tinwhiskers | yet | 21:27 |
| tinwhiskers | I'm wondering how I can fast-track my vaccination, possibly by volunteering somewhere, or some other such thing. | 21:28 |
| tinwhiskers | I don't want to wait in line until June or later :-( | 21:28 |
| tinwhiskers | The current paper vaccination certificates we use for travel purposes seem totally inadequate, but then some people are very opposed to having that added to electronic passport databases (and may be impractical at many airports anyway) so I don't know how it should be done. | 21:31 |
| tinwhiskers | as for allocation I think we probably will see some sort of lottery because it's hard to see many fair ways of doing it. | 21:33 |
| ubLIX[m] | UK seems to be going for tranches of highest risk to lowest risk, with front line healthcare workers lumped in with highest risk. So says .gov note anyway. | 21:35 |
| tinwhiskers | oh, yes, well of course, but once those are knocked off you have a vast number of people who are pretty much equal. | 21:35 |
| ubLIX[m] | if you have lingering lung trouble, might you not automatically jump the queue? | 21:36 |
| tinwhiskers | yeah, I'm sure people in high-risk categories will go first | 21:36 |
| tinwhiskers | but that's probably only something in the range of 1-5% of the population (huge hand-wavey guess). | 21:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Drug attenuates weight gain in animals fed a high-fat diet: A drug originally developed to treat bacterial infections has proved capable of boosting the metabolism and attenuating the weight gain induced by a fatty diet in tests with mice. The study was conducted at the University of Campinas (UNICAMP) with FAPESP's support, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/sYPPvo | 21:40 |
| de-facto | how to avoid medical doctors to sell "fake" vaccination passports, just like they sell "unable to wear mask attests" right now? | 21:46 |
| de-facto | i guess that is why they go for vaccination centers | 21:47 |
| tinwhiskers | interesting point | 21:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: US expects 100 million people vaccinated by February: The US hopes to have immunized 100 million people against COVID-19 by the end of February, a top official said Wednesday, which is approximately 40 percent of the country's adult population. → https://is.gd/FteEQz | 21:53 |
| de-facto | LjL, i just read the alternative version of it, I could not find any claims that would go beyond their reasoning there, they just say the origin is unknown which is kinda true until a natural host is found indeed | 21:53 |
| de-facto | so i guess that is more or less fine for basing a scientific discussion about their dataset and method upon | 21:54 |
| de-facto | and they do talk about supplemental material, i could not find it though | 21:55 |
| de-facto | btw in my opinion any medical doctor selling attests about "unable to wear masks" for perfectly healthy people should be forced to give back the approbation permanently. Police should make a register about the "doctors names" | 22:01 |
| de-facto | i am pretty sure it would be a long list with only a few names on it | 22:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from PLOS ONE: Clinical bleeding patterns and management techniques of abnormal uterine bleeding at a teaching and referral hospital in Western Kenya: by Godfrey Shichenje Mutakha, Emily Mwaliko, Philip Kirwa Abnormal uterine bleeding (AUB) affects 30% of reproductive age women globally. However, there are limited local studies evaluating the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/mWax8M | 22:05 |
| de-facto | lol they say people become panic attacks when wearing masks. Can i please get an attest that i get panic attacks when I see people NOT wearing masks in my proximity? | 22:11 |
| de-facto | *people get panic attacks | 22:11 |
| de-facto | there was a web form were people got fill in their name and a medical doctor send them a signed attest via post then | 22:12 |
| de-facto | was shut down by police now. i did not know that it was possible in such massive scales | 22:12 |
| de-facto | unbelievable. | 22:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from PLOS ONE: Early predictive factors of progression from severe type to critical ill type in patients with Coronavirus Disease 2019: A retrospective cohort study: by Nan Li, Hao Kong, Xi-Zi Zheng, Xue-Ying Li, Jing Ma, Hong Zhang, Dong-Xin Wang, Hai-Chao Li, Xin-Min Liu Background The current worldwide pandemic of Coronavirus Disease 2019 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/hz75Ol | 22:18 |
| de-facto | assumption: the contact rates among citizens are distributed very unevenly around the "average", few people have very large number of contacts while most have not so many contacts | 22:22 |
| de-facto | if that is the case vaccinating those few people with high contact rates and mobility (potentially transporting the virus) prior to the other people would prevent community transmission more effective and earlier (in terms of vaccination prevalence) than evenly distributing vaccination | 22:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >><de-facto> lol they say people become panic attacks when wearing masks. Can i please get an attest that i get panic attacks when I see people NOT wearing masks in my proximity?<< +1! | 22:25 |
| de-facto | maybe this could be done with the tracing app? like people able to prove many (distant?) contacts per time unit could acquire nomination for en-queuing for the getting the vaccines earlier than those with low contact rates or mobility? | 22:26 |
| de-facto | just a crazy idea, probably not possible so easily | 22:27 |
| de-facto | DocScrutinizer05, the thing is once i tried discussing with an anti-masker, it was a very bad idea, things almost became violent, them shouting i should call the police etc | 22:30 |
| de-facto | i probably was exposed to more droplets and aerosol than if i should would have stayed silent and would have gone away. hence i should have called the police for the *store* accepting someone without mask indoors in their public area instead i guess | 22:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from PLOS ONE: Prediction of itraconazole minimum inhibitory concentration for Fonsecaea pedrosoi using Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy (FTIR) and chemometrics: by Alessandra Koehler, Valeriano Antonio Corbellini, Daiane Heidrich, Maria Lúcia Scroferneker Fonsecaea pedrosoi is one of the main agents of chromoblastomycosis, a chronic [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/4Qx66h | 22:31 |
| de-facto | fortunately those idiots are quite rare | 22:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just pull out your smartphone and upload a goetagged snapshot | 22:35 |
| de-facto | i think next time i film it with my phone telling them i would have to secure evidence, telling the stores owner that i am about to call the police and that they should remove those people without mask immediately because its against the law | 22:35 |
| de-facto | yeah exactly | 22:35 |
| de-facto | maybe even sign the photo with the app satoshi proof | 22:37 |
| de-facto | so it is secured in the blockchain with timestamp and hash | 22:37 |
| de-facto | i would not even need to publish the picture then (its against the law anyhow), but just its hash value, so i could give the photo directly to the police instead | 22:38 |
| de-facto | %title https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.ligi.satoshiproof/ | 22:41 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From f-droid.org: Satoshi Proof | F-Droid - Free and Open Source Android App Repository | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | just upload to google streetmap or somesuch, to the store info page | 22:41 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >>cool shop! no mask needed!<< ;-P | 22:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from PLOS ONE: How long should the COVID-19 lockdown continue?: by Jonathan Caulkins, Dieter Grass, Gustav Feichtinger, Richard Hartl, Peter M. Kort, Alexia Prskawetz, Andrea Seidl, Stefan Wrzaczek Nations struggled to decide when and how to end COVID-19 inspired lockdowns, with sharply divergent views between those arguing for a resumption of [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/PNQzqh | 22:43 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder how many shops appreciate that flavor of positive customer feedback haha | 22:43 |
| de-facto | it could get me into trouble because every person has the right on their own image, so publishing it against their acceptance will be against the law afaik | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | that's not entirely correct | 22:44 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, they could insist in the picture get deleted, but good luck with anything beyond that | 22:45 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | could for example argue they obviously are performing an action of public protest which is *meant* to attract publicity | 22:47 |
| de-facto | deleted from public space maybe, but not from my own phone since it is evidence of them conducting physical injury resulting from negligence | 22:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if you join a demonstration then there's not really any sense in insisting not getting filmed and photgraphed and those pictures getting broadcasted | 22:48 |
| de-facto | if the picture is not about individual people, then yes it should be ok | 22:50 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of course only from public pages, nobody can force you to delete any photos you have taken yourself and kepping on your private non-public storage | 22:50 |
| de-facto | thats my point, and with publishing a hash value as comment in a BTC transaction, the point in time as well as the integrity of the picture (kept in private as evidence on my phone) is ensured | 22:51 |
| de-facto | like its public knowledge because everyone participating in BTC network would have it on their harddrive in minutes and it cant be altered later | 22:52 |
| LjL | My mom actually does get panic attacks easily and including due to wearing masks. She wears it anyway because it's right, and she's old enough to be at risk herself, but when there's nobody around she takes it off and often looks like she's about to faint. She's been taken by the ambulance for panic attacks before, they are no joke even though "they're in your head". So if doctors give fake attestations shame on them, but let's also try to have a bit of | 22:56 |
| LjL | compassion... | 22:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from PLOS: Trade-offs between cost and accuracy in active case finding for tuberculosis: A dynamic modelling analysis: by Lucia Cilloni, Katharina Kranzer, Helen R. Stagg, Nimalan Arinaminpathy Background Active case finding (ACF) may be valuable in tuberculosis (TB) control, but questions remain about its optimum implementation in different [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/B7qVMC | 22:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | de-facto: nobody cares about some blockchain signature, except some court in a trial | 22:58 |
| LjL | (probably not the court either) | 22:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah | 22:59 |
| romare | yo fellas sup this virus is super fucked up boi I mean wtf boi we're so fucked up boi what's happening? yeah boy whatsup boy | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a twitter or facebook or even maps.google customer comment however, linked to the store. That's quite a different story | 23:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: you waer the huge boots already? | 23:02 |
| de-facto | LjL, well but for people getting panic attacks the solution is not to give them an attest that they are excluded from containment efforts | 23:02 |
| de-facto | they should get help for the cause of their problems, ignoring the effects is no solution from any perspective | 23:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kick them like Beckham | 23:03 |
| de-facto | no | 23:03 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, i know romare, he'll probably calm down | 23:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hehe ok | 23:03 |
| LjL | romare, calm down or they'll make me kick you lick Beckhma with the huge boots | 23:03 |
| de-facto | i mean like help them overcome the cause of their panic attacks | 23:03 |
| LjL | oh god i can't type at all | 23:03 |
| romare | I don't lick beckham ass | 23:04 |
| romare | tf | 23:04 |
| romare | boi | 23:04 |
| romare | oh | 23:04 |
| romare | ok | 23:04 |
| ubLIX[m] | go to drunk romare you're sleep | 23:04 |
| de-facto | i also felt a bit uneasy when i first was wearing my FFP3, like i could not breathe as usual, now i am wearing it several hours without break every day | 23:04 |
| romare | ok ok I'm fine | 23:04 |
| LjL | de-facto, that's easily said, and hard to achieve, but anyway, sure, you're right, they shouldn't be given get-out-of-jail-free attestations. but i'm just saying, this often gets discussed with seemingly the implied assumption that anyone having a problem with mask that's actually serious (even if psychological) is either making it up, or should "man up", or whatever. i understand it as a reaction to all the jerks that just don't care or actively reject | 23:05 |
| LjL | masks, but it risks making people forget about compassion. then we see people getting madder and madder at each other / everyone | 23:05 |
| LjL | romare, i motion the second | 23:06 |
| LjL | but also it was a typo! | 23:06 |
| LjL | my fingers just type things that are vaguely similar to the words i'm thinking of | 23:06 |
| LjL | it's a known bug | 23:06 |
| romare | so I can be me? | 23:06 |
| de-facto | LjL, yes of course we need more solidarity and compassion. as well as cohesion to agree about sticking to containment measures without exceptions, hence i think such people should get help to overcome their problems wearing masks | 23:07 |
| LjL | romare, probably not? i motion the second to go to drunk 'cause you're sleep | 23:07 |
| romare | fuk yeah sounds lousy but yeah ok I'm quiet now have fun | 23:07 |
| LjL | de-facto, "such people" have often gotten help for years (including medications that probably makes them more vulnerable to covid now) and it barely helped | 23:08 |
| de-facto | i was talking about people *claiming* to be unable to wear masks for "medical reasons" without disclosing details (privacy reasons) and just buying attests in the internet from real medical doctors | 23:08 |
| de-facto | allowing such medical attests is like opening the Pandora's box there will be fake attests from real MDs and police being unable to distinguish from genuine reasons | 23:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I can see reasons why you can't wear a FFP type mask, but the OP masks are a nobrainer and with l4ess effect on breathing than what you need to cope with when you put on your pullover or T-shirt | 23:10 |
| de-facto | yeah and that is all law requires, *cover* nose and mouth with a cotton community mask (or surgical mask or such) | 23:11 |
| romare | too many words | 23:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and you don't even need an attest to allow you to wear an OP mask instead of an efficient FFP2 or somesuch | 23:11 |
| de-facto | i am still trying to convince people to go for FFP2 or FFP3 for their own protection but that is their decision as long as they go ahead and cover their nose and mouth with a surgical mask or community mask | 23:13 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, do you typically spend hours putting on your pullover or T-shirt? | 23:17 |
| LjL | seriously this is why i'm kind of objecting to the treatment as being depicted | 23:17 |
| LjL | let's not be ridiculous, wearing something on your mouth if you're a panicky person is not the same as putting on a t-shirt | 23:17 |
| LjL | that's just insulting to suggest that | 23:17 |
| LjL | if people who find it actually distressing to wear a mask do it anyway (and i'm sure many, like my mom, do — it's just easier to see the ones that don't, obviously), do them the favor back of understanding their difficulties instead of just assuming that the way you feel when you wear a mask must be the same as the way they feel | 23:19 |
| de-facto | i am not suggesting that it is not difficult for them, but i am also saying there should be no exceptions for them either, just that they should get the help they need by compassion to overcome their problems | 23:20 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Massachusetts, US: +5027 cases (now 234232), +46 deaths (now 10824) since a day ago | 23:20 |
| de-facto | in fact i can imagine that it can be quite difficult for some people to wear a mask, i mean i even felt a tiny urge myself to lift the FFP3 at first when i was not used to it | 23:21 |
| LjL | well we have exceptions here for runners | 23:21 |
| LjL | if you're running around the block you can just not wear a mask, because it is assumed that you'd find it hard to run with a mask on | 23:21 |
| LjL | but at the same time if you're infected you're probably the most contagious when you're doing that | 23:21 |
| LjL | exercise is important, i know | 23:22 |
| LjL | so is not getting panic attacks, believe me | 23:22 |
| LjL | so i think the line is not so thickly drawn | 23:22 |
| de-facto | in my opinion there should be no exceptions whatsoever, because it opens the discussion about whom to require wearing a mask relative to others that feel treated unfair then etc, so the end result would be a compromise allowing too many exceptions just to be "fair" to everyone | 23:22 |
| LjL | when i see people running and passing next to me without a mask, i wonder what exactly they're doing that's so unavoidable that they can be allowed not to wear a mask, while my mom can't even have a walk | 23:22 |
| de-facto | thats my opinion | 23:23 |
| LjL | yes okay | 23:23 |
| LjL | but look at what DocScrutinizer05 said about it being like a t-shirt | 23:23 |
| de-facto | and i tried it myself, driving as fast as possible with the bicycle with a surgical mask | 23:23 |
| de-facto | it did not give me any restrictions, i just came out of breath as i would without mask too | 23:23 |
| LjL | look at the tone of what you said yourself when you said <de-facto> lol they say people become panic attacks when wearing masks. Can i please get an attest that i get panic attacks when I see people NOT wearing masks in my proximity? | 23:23 |
| LjL | with the lol and all that | 23:23 |
| de-facto | and my SpO2 was at 98% | 23:23 |
| LjL | that ticks me off | 23:23 |
| LjL | i think i'm allowed to be ticked off by the tone even if you're right about the substance | 23:24 |
| de-facto | ok sorry, you are right about that | 23:24 |
| de-facto | it was more in the light of my rant about those fake attest medical doctors | 23:24 |
| LjL | okay | 23:25 |
| de-facto | i just read it on their website as a "reasoning" that cant be attacked | 23:25 |
| de-facto | thats where i got the word panic attacks from | 23:25 |
| LjL | well it can be attacked, but they chose it because it also does happen and is a real problem | 23:25 |
| LjL | that's why they think it can't be attacked | 23:25 |
| de-facto | they suggested that it cant be easily dis-proven and that people would confirm its their problem with proceeding with the web form, so they did not verify that | 23:27 |
| LjL | that suggests malice | 23:27 |
| de-facto | yes it for sure is | 23:27 |
| LjL | also i think it can be disproven, technically: get a psychiatrist, then put a mask on the person's face... if their panic attack is real, it can easily distinguished from a fake panic attack by the psychiatrist :P | 23:28 |
| LjL | but okay, they'll say it only happens sometimes (which is also true) | 23:28 |
| de-facto | i am no expert, but afaik facing the fear is the only was to overcome it with some help | 23:31 |
| ubLIX[m] | i've been in hospital in respiratory distress. and more or less attacked the hands of a nurse who was trying to help me with oxygen line. took me a few seconds to conquer the drive. before that, asthma was just a 6 letter word to me. it carried no meaning. i suspect de-facto has never had a panic attack. that said, perhaps there can be something to the argument that there should be no panic-related exceptions to mask | 23:34 |
| ubLIX[m] | rule, since, if it does become a medical/psychological issue in the moment, that mask is coming off no matter what you think about it | 23:34 |
| ubLIX[m] | i do wonder what de-facto imagines will be this compassionate treatment plan will actually involve | 23:35 |
| de-facto | yes people should be aware that they always can take it off (hopefully walking away from other people prior to doing that) | 23:35 |
| ubLIX[m] | *-will be | 23:35 |
| de-facto | helping them to get used to wearing a mask, getting used to it slowly, taking it off and on etc | 23:36 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I think when somebody can't even wear a surgical mask then *that individual* got a real problem that doesn't qualify them to act in a generally not acceptable way in the public. When I got a psychological problem that doesn't allow me to leave a nice object in the store as soon as I pass by, then I can't get an attest that allows me to steal that stuff since I can't help it. I need to find a way to act in compliance what's common rule | 23:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and law. Pretty much same with wearing masks | 23:37 |
| LjL | de-facto, they cannot always take it off legally, people here have been known to get fined for taking it off momentarily just because they didn't notice there was a cop able to see them somewhere | 23:38 |
| SphericalCow | if you walk around with your dick out in most places you can get a fine or worse | 23:39 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, you're now literally comparing my mom's panic attacks to stealing | 23:39 |
| de-facto | well then thats the risk they have to take when going into public, hence maybe training in private prior to that could be helpful | 23:39 |
| LjL | if you were anyone else i'd quiet you or kick you at this point | 23:39 |
| LjL | so i'll have to do something else | 23:39 |
| LjL | bleh | 23:39 |
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