libera/##covid-19/ Tuesday, 2020-12-08

tinwhiskersto some degree that is true, but by GDP is medical research funding really higher there?00:00
gigasu_shidai don't know good question00:00
tinwhiskersindeed00:00
tinwhiskerserr, sorry, per capita00:01
tinwhiskerswell, either way I guess00:01
gigasu_shidai kinda knew what you meant00:01
tinwhiskerstotal investment: China, US, japan, Germany, South Korea00:02
gigasu_shidahuh?00:03
tinwhiskersby GDP US is ranked tenth. Per capita, US is fourth.00:03
tinwhiskersthat was a ranking. China spends the most in total, follwed by US00:04
gigasu_shidawow China spends more?00:04
tinwhiskersthey have a LOT more people00:04
gigasu_shidastill...that's surprising00:04
tinwhiskersper capita China is way behind the US00:05
gigasu_shidacan i see where you're getting these figures?00:05
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +146 deaths (now 5495) since 22 hours ago00:06
tinwhiskersoh, crap... Now that I went to copy the link I see I got lost in a rabbit hole. That's total research, not healthcare. I'll try harder.00:06
gigasu_shidasorry to bother you00:08
tinwhiskershttps://www.who.int/research-observatory/indicators/gerd_gdp/en/00:08
tinwhiskersThat's OECD only though00:09
tinwhiskersOK, this seems useful: https://ourworldindata.org/health-meta00:13
tinwhiskersoh. no. That's healthcare expenditure, not healthcare research expenditure. it's no surprise they spend more on healthcare services considering the outrageously expensive system.00:14
gigasu_shidait's ok i'm gonna go down the rabbit hole myself on this later00:15
gigasu_shidalol00:15
gigasu_shidacan you add a population adjustment feature to offloop.net eventually?00:16
tinwhiskersit already has that00:16
gigasu_shidai'd like to be able to normalize data by country population00:16
gigasu_shidaoh really....00:16
gigasu_shidai'll look again00:16
tinwhiskersok00:16
gigasu_shidaooo spain and italy it looks like lead the way if divided by population00:17
gigasu_shidabut looks like US could beat them soon00:18
tinwhiskersdeaths?00:18
tinwhiskersfor cases per capita US only lags behind Belgium and will soon take the lead.00:19
gigasu_shidacases don't seem like a good way to compare things00:21
gigasu_shidadepends too much on government effort 00:22
gigasu_shidaand healthcare system00:22
tinwhiskersyeah, maybe00:22
gigasu_shidaFauci said the wave due to the Thanksgiving holiday hasn't arrived yet =/00:23
tinwhiskersno, I guess not00:23
LjLdeaths can also depend to some extent00:26
LjLlesser extent than cases, for sure00:26
LjLbut there are things like... is a death considered a case if they were never tested and just treated in a hurry until they died instead?00:27
LjLi mean, is the death considered a COVID-19 death00:27
gigasu_shidadeaths may need to be normalized for the average age of the country or the average age of the deceased?00:30
gigasu_shidaor am i wrong?00:30
LjLi dunno, depends on what you want to be measuring00:38
de-factoInfection Fatality Ratio IFR(age) = Exp[ Ln[2] age / 5.75 years] / 1820 in percent, source https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.07.23.20160895v700:40
de-facto5title00:41
de-facto%title00:41
Brainstormde-facto: From www.medrxiv.org: Assessing the Age Specificity of Infection Fatality Rates for COVID-19: Systematic Review, Meta-Analysis, and Public Policy Implications | medRxiv00:41
de-factoso they have Log10[IFR] == -3.27 + 0.0524 * age hence that means IFR[age] =  Exp[ Ln[2] age / 5.74485 years] / 1862.0900:47
de-factoso normalized to 1 = 100% it would be  IFR[age] = Exp[ Ln[2] age / 5.75 years] / 18620000:49
de-factofor example IFR[85] = 0.151366 or 1/6, hence a COVID-19 infection would be as fatal as Russian Roulette for that age00:50
de-factoprobability to die from a SARS-CoV-2 infection doubles with each increase of age by 5.75 years00:51
BrainstormUpdates for Canada: +5186 cases (now 420839), +68 deaths (now 12733) since 23 hours ago01:06
kreyren[m]Anything new I should know about in terms of covid 01:14
LjLlol, i don't know what you knew last time01:35
LjLalso i probably don't remember what's new since ;(01:35
LjLmaybe i should add a feature to the bot that spams you with ALL the news since last time you asked for them01:36
LjLalthough i suspect that'd get the bot quickly disconnected01:36
de-factotoday they will start with vaccinations in UK so thats new i guess01:42
de-factonot sure how much impact that will have due to limited availability of vaccine doses, if they have a really smart strategy maybe an effect on deaths may be visible like in January? idk01:43
LjLde-facto, with Pfizer, right?01:43
de-factoyep BioNTech/Pfizer 01:43
LjL%vax Pfizer01:44
BrainstormLjL, Researcher: BioNTech + Pfizer, Country: Germany + USA, Trial start: Apr 20, Vaccine type: mRNA BNT162b201:44
de-factooh wow thats cool :)01:44
de-facto%vax Moderna01:44
Brainstormde-facto, Researcher: Moderna + NIAID, Country: USA, Trial start: Mar 16, Vaccine type: mRNA-127301:44
LjLheh i made it a few days ago but i think you were sleeping and missed the demo01:44
de-facto%vac CureVac01:45
LjLbut it doesn't fetch much info because it only uses the "list" page01:45
jacklsw%vac sputnik01:45
de-facto%vax CureVac01:45
Brainstormde-facto, Researcher: CureVac, Country: Germany, Trial start: Jun 18, Vaccine type: mRNA01:45
LjLit doesn't use the individual subpages (yet)01:45
jacklsw%vax sputnik01:45
Brainstormjacklsw, Researcher: Gamaleya Research Institute, Country: Russia, Trial start: Jun 17, Vaccine type: Sputnik V01:45
de-factoLjL really cool stuff thank you :))01:45
LjLyou can also use %vaccine or %vaccines but i didn't think of %vac01:45
jacklsw%vax sinovac01:45
Brainstormjacklsw, Researcher: Sinovac, Country: China + Brazil, Trial start: Apr 13, Vaccine type: Inactivated — Researcher: Sinovac + Dynavax, Country: China + USA, Trial start: , Vaccine type: Inactivated01:45
de-factothis is so cool i love it :)01:46
jacklswchinese confidential heh01:46
LjLthere are two of these because the trial in brazil uses a different adjuvant from the other one01:46
LjLi think the subpages at covidvax have more info on that01:46
de-factoAluminum hydroxide something ?01:47
LjLmhm01:47
de-facto%vax sinupharm01:47
LjLwell one is "alum", which is standard shorthand for that thing, apparently01:47
Brainstormde-facto, 01:47
LjLi don't remember what the other is01:47
KREYREENLjL, yesh please spam me with relevant things!01:47
de-facto%vax sinopharm01:47
Brainstormde-facto, Researcher: Beijing Institute of BioProducts (Sinopharm), Country: China, Trial start: Apr 29, Vaccine type: Inactivated — Researcher: Wuhan Institute of BioProducts (Sinopharm), Country: China, Trial start: Apr 12, Vaccine type: Inactivated01:47
LjLmaybe it should fail more gracefully when it finds no hits :P01:47
de-factoi always spell those wrong idk why LOL01:48
KREYREENde-facto, because medical nerds like to bully people with unpronounciable and hard to remember things~ :p01:48
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Fired Florida scientist and family home raided for COVID-19 data → https://is.gd/oGLnid01:49
KREYREENthey keep calling meh stultus >.>01:50
de-factoactually i should be able to remember: sino meaning china01:50
KREYREENde-facto, does it O.o01:50
LjLwell, Sina means China in Latin01:50
de-factoyep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino01:51
LjLsino- is more like... more like a lot of other prefix end up with -o- :P01:51
BrainstormUpdates for Cyprus: +416 cases (now 12867), +2 deaths (now 63) since a day ago — France: +6363 cases (now 2.3 million) since a day ago01:51
LjLlike i dunno, gramophone! gram-o-phone!01:51
LjLthey even spell the sillier ones that way01:51
de-factoLjL, did you do that with scrapy?01:52
de-factoor beautifulsoup or such?01:52
LjLde-facto, beautifulsoup. scrapy seemed too complex, and more geared towards creating standalone scrapers than making it part of your own program01:54
LjLbesides it's not like i need to do any magic like run their javascript or store their cookies or anything... it's just html, not of the least annoying variety, but still just html01:55
LjLi almost want to say "i will expand it to also scrape the vaccine-specific pages" but if i say it i won't do it, i know me01:55
LjLso i won't say it! except i've said it...01:55
de-factoLjL, also would be cool to have info about the categories (e.g. lab, animal, human and certified) as well as number of study participants (indicating how soon certification may be available)01:55
LjLoh, i don't know why it doesn't say the number of study participants, i probably just forgot to add that entry01:56
LjLthe other thing... i probably can do that somewhat easily, too01:56
de-facto%vax Germany01:57
Brainstormde-facto, Researcher: BioNTech + Pfizer, Country: Germany + USA, Trial start: Apr 20, Vaccine type: mRNA BNT162b2 — Researcher: CureVac, Country: Germany, Trial start: Jun 18, Vaccine type: mRNA — Researcher: ReiThera + Leukocare, Country: Italy + Germany + Belgium, Trial start: Aug 10, Vaccine type: GRAd-COV2 [... want %more?]01:57
de-factooh yeah thats cool :)01:57
de-facto%vax mRNA01:58
Brainstormde-facto, Researcher: BioNTech + Pfizer, Country: Germany + USA, Trial start: Apr 20, Vaccine type: mRNA BNT162b2 — Researcher: Moderna + NIAID, Country: USA, Trial start: Mar 16, Vaccine type: mRNA-1273 — Researcher: CureVac, Country: Germany, Trial start: Jun 18, Vaccine type: mRNA [... want %more?]01:58
tinwhiskersoh... nice. that solves the problem I was wondering about01:58
LjLmaybe the bold is a bit spammy, i'll try changing to italics01:58
tinwhiskersany other features?01:58
de-factoits very very cool i love it :))01:58
tinwhiskers%vax china01:58
Brainstormtinwhiskers, Researcher: CanSino Biologics + Beijing Institute of BioTech, Country: China + Canada, Trial start: Mar 16, Vaccine type: Ad5-nCoV — Researcher: Anhui Zhifei Longcom Biopharma + Institute of Microbiology Chinese Academy of Sciences, Country: China, Trial start: Jun 22, Vaccine type: RBD-Dimer [... want %more?]01:58
LjLtinwhiskers, well, it's an old feature, but always worth rehashing, you can do %more and it will partly spam you with something irrelevant (because i broke it in strange ways) but also give you a pastebin with the full list of those you inquired on01:59
LjL%more01:59
tinwhiskers%more01:59
BrainstormLjL, [...] continue to be important in curbing its spread. We therefore investigated their perceived usefulness, adherence and their predictors in representative online samples in eight countries (France, Germany, Poland, Russia, Spain, Sweden, U.K., U.S.). Of the 7,658 participants, 77.4% rated governmental measures (highest: Germany, lowest: France) as useful and [...] → https://paste.ee/p/MohhG01:59
BrainstormLjL, [...] Researcher: Sinovac, Country: China + Brazil, Trial start: Apr 13, Vaccine type: Inactivated — Researcher: Beijing Institute of BioProducts (Sinopharm), Country: China, Trial start: Apr 29, Vaccine type: Inactivated [...] → https://paste.ee/p/gkigD01:59
Brainstormtinwhiskers, [...] continue to be important in curbing its spread. We therefore investigated their perceived usefulness, adherence and their predictors in representative online samples in eight countries (France, Germany, Poland, Russia, Spain, Sweden, U.K., U.S.). Of the 7,658 participants, 77.4% rated governmental measures (highest: Germany, lowest: France) as [...] → https://paste.ee/p/zQDWA01:59
Brainstormtinwhiskers, [...] Researcher: Sinovac, Country: China + Brazil, Trial start: Apr 13, Vaccine type: Inactivated — Researcher: Beijing Institute of BioProducts (Sinopharm), Country: China, Trial start: Apr 29, Vaccine type: Inactivated [...] → https://paste.ee/p/bBfGa01:59
LjLurgh :P01:59
LjLbut yeah... that01:59
tinwhiskersheh01:59
LjLthe pastebin is somewhat readable although spacing would help01:59
tinwhiskerssweet mother of God, that's a lot.02:00
tinwhiskersspacing is fine02:00
LjLand we're ignoring 'em all02:00
de-factowhy not format it as Tab Separated Values? readable and even loadable in to Excel et al02:00
LjLi bet at some point we'll be desperate enough with few enough of "our" vaccines that we'll ask for some chinese ones02:00
tinwhiskersI wonder02:01
LjLde-facto, because it's not separate functionality, it just posts to the pastebin the same thing it would post to IRC, except with \n separating them instead of —02:01
tinwhiskersyeah, TSV might be nice.02:01
tinwhiskersah02:01
LjLbut i guess i could change the core functionality so that \t is converted to space on IRC but not on the pastebin, would need to have a look at that code, it's old02:02
tinwhiskersI think tabs are ignored on irc?02:02
LjLi am not sure02:02
tinwhiskersI'm not sure either02:02
LjL%py print("a\ta")02:02
Brainstormaa02:02
LjLwell that shows as a space for me, but i'm not entirely sure what %py does behind the scenes so i'll have to check better02:03
tinwhiskersyeah02:03
LjLBrainstorm, reload covid02:03
BrainstormLjL: <module 'covid' from '/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/covid.py'> (version: 2020-12-08 01:03:19)02:03
LjL%vac sdfsdf02:03
BrainstormLjL, no such vaccine found. Try checking https://covidvax.org 02:03
BrainstormLjL, 02:03
BrainstormLjL: An error occurred while searching.02:03
BrainstormLjL: An error occurred while searching.02:03
LjLeeeeeh okay02:03
tinwhiskers%vax usa02:03
de-factoah makes sense02:03
LjLit's restarting, give it a sec02:04
tinwhiskersoh02:04
LjLunfortunately i cannot test it in realtime without causing... well, you saw :P02:04
LjL%vax usa02:04
BrainstormLjL, Researcher: Janssen (Johnson & Johnson),Country: Belgium + USA,Participants: 91845,Trial start: Aug 11,Vaccine type: Ad26 — Researcher: BioNTech + Pfizer,Country: Germany + USA,Participants: 44866,Trial start: Apr 20,Vaccine type: mRNA BNT162b2 [... want %more?]02:04
LjL%more02:04
BrainstormLjL, [...] Researcher: Novavax,Country: USA,Participants: 42035,Trial start: May 6,Vaccine type: NVX-CoV2373 — Researcher: Moderna + NIAID,Country: USA,Participants: 30755,Trial start: Mar 16,Vaccine type: mRNA-1273 [...] → https://paste.ee/p/XSUjh02:04
tinwhiskersah. bummer02:04
LjLwell this has \t's now02:04
LjL(in the pastebin)02:04
LjL(and maybe on IRC too but i see spaces!)02:05
tinwhiskersyeah, but it also still has the commas02:05
tinwhiskersnot a good plan as-is02:05
LjLoh yeah02:05
LjLwell just sed them away! :P02:05
tinwhiskersit actually wouldn't work very well with "country", etc. in each one either02:06
tinwhiskershow you had it was fine02:06
LjLokay let me do something02:07
de-facto[m]its loadable from TSV like that though02:08
de-facto[m]well CSV also would work i guess02:08
de-facto[m]is there are no commas in the text that is of course02:08
de-facto[m]btw LjL did you make a safety copy before editing?02:09
LjLhahah good joke02:10
tinwhiskerslol02:10
LjLwow this is hacky02:11
LjL%tsvax China02:11
BrainstormLjL, ResearcherCountryParticipantsTrial startVaccine type — CanSino Biologics + Beijing Institute of BioTechChina + Canada41678Mar 16Ad5-nCoV — Anhui Zhifei Longcom Biopharma + Institute of Microbiology Chinese Academy of SciencesChina30216Jun 22RBD-Dimer — SinovacChina + Brazil26248Apr 13Inactivated [... want %more?]02:11
LjL%more02:11
BrainstormLjL, [...] Beijing Institute of BioProducts (Sinopharm)China24448Apr 29Inactivated — Wuhan Institute of BioProducts (Sinopharm)China23056Apr 12Inactivated — Inovio PharmaUSA + China7498Apr 3DNA INO-4800 — Institute of Medical Biology + Chinese Academy of Medical SciencesSingapore + China1413May 15Inactivated [...] → https://paste.ee/p/6FWXQ02:11
LjLi mean, i'm relying on dict() keeping the same (unspecified) order between different loops through it02:12
LjLbut... it works?02:12
tinwhiskersoh. yeah02:12
LjLi'm not sure about the other thing de-facto[m] asked me, the vaccine type, i said it would be easy before actually checking, it's not that easy with the currently pretty naive code02:13
de-factohow do they derive their colors per CSS? they have classes like td.devBox tr.devEven tr.devOdd td.preBox tr.preEven tr.preOdd td.cliBox tr.cliEven tr.cliOdd td.disBox tr.disEven tr.disOdd02:17
de-factomaybe that can be used for XPath in BS4?02:17
de-factoe.g. [@class="..."] or such?02:17
LjLi am completely ignorant of CSS02:18
de-factoat some point the links in the onclick="..." attributes could be used to access the details pages02:19
de-factoso maybe a solution would target both of those then?02:19
tinwhiskerscss has it's own alternating colour statement without needing to manually do odd/even classes but you can do it that.02:19
LjLquestion: does "invalid syntax in line 404" imply i have no invalid syntax?02:19
de-factolol02:19
tinwhiskersha ha02:19
de-factois it HTTP code? :D02:19
LjLwell... no. good point02:22
LjL%vax Moderna02:22
LjLBrainstorm, restart faster02:22
LjLspot-checking with rapid tests?02:23
LjL%vax Moderna02:23
BrainstormLjL, Trial start: Mar 16, Researcher: Moderna + NIAID, Country: USA, Vaccine type: mRNA-1273, Participants: 30755, Clinical stage: Testing on humans 02:23
de-factolol02:23
de-factowow that was fast :))02:23
LjL%vax abvision02:23
BrainstormLjL, Trial start: , Researcher: AbVision, Country: USA, Vaccine type: AVI-205, Participants: , Clinical stage: Testing on animals 02:23
de-factothats awesome :)))02:23
de-factosix minutes, LjL must be a Python god :)02:24
LjLyou say that because you haven't seen the code02:25
de-factoprobably Brainstorm needs longer to restart than you coding it :P02:25
LjLthat is sometimes an issue ;(02:25
LjLespecially with the other Brainstorm, the one doing earthquakes02:25
LjLthat one takes several minutes to be "up and running"02:25
LjLsometimes i forget i was even testing a change02:25
LjLmy memory span doesn't really pass 60 seconds02:25
de-factoI am running an instance of Limnoria on my router, it takes minutes until it fetched all RSS again and is up and running at the same state more or less02:28
LjL%vax abvision02:28
BrainstormLjL, Researcher: AbVision, Country: USA, Vaccine: AVI-205, Stage: Testing on animals 02:28
LjLde-facto, Limnoria isn't very lightweight, i can imagine on a router it might struggle a bit02:29
de-factoonce it runs its fine but restarting is very slow02:29
de-facto%vax AJ Vaccines02:29
Brainstormde-facto, Researcher: Emergex Vaccines + George Mason University's National Center for Biodefense and Infectious Diseases (NCIBD), Country: UK + Canada, Vaccine: Unknown, Stage: Testing on animals  — Trial start: Jun, Researcher: Meissa Vaccines INC, Country: USA, Vaccine: Attenuated, Stage: Testing on animals  [... want %more?]02:29
de-facto%vax "AJ Vaccines"02:30
Brainstormde-facto, no such vaccine found. Try checking https://covidvax.org 02:30
Brainstormde-facto, 02:30
LjLoh i forgot a return02:30
de-facto%vax AJ02:30
Brainstormde-facto, Researcher: AJ Vaccines, Country: Denmark, Vaccine: S protein, Stage: Still in development 02:30
LjLuhm02:30
LjLoh, yeah right02:31
LjLeach keyword is treated individually02:31
LjLi just did that without thinking, maybe it's not good for this command02:31
LjL%vax china mrna02:31
BrainstormLjL, Trial start: Apr 20, Researcher: BioNTech + Pfizer, Country: Germany + USA, Participants: 44866, Vaccine: mRNA BNT162b2, Stage: Testing on humans  — Trial start: Mar 16, Researcher: CanSino Biologics + Beijing Institute of BioTech, Country: China + Canada, Participants: 41678, Vaccine: Ad5-nCoV, Stage: Testing on humans  [... want %more?]02:31
LjLbut you can do this02:31
de-facto%vax China AND mRNA02:31
Brainstormde-facto, Trial start: Apr 20, Researcher: BioNTech + Pfizer, Country: Germany + USA, Participants: 44866, Vaccine: mRNA BNT162b2, Stage: Testing on humans  — Trial start: Mar 16, Researcher: CanSino Biologics + Beijing Institute of BioTech, Country: China + Canada, Participants: 41678, Vaccine: Ad5-nCoV, Stage: Testing on humans  [... want %more?]02:31
LjLthe AND is implied, and i'm not going to add full search logic :P02:32
de-factoright now its an OR right?02:33
de-factoe.g. mMRA from Germany + USA OR inactivated from China02:33
de-facto%vax stats02:36
Brainstormde-facto, no such vaccine found. Try checking https://covidvax.org 02:36
de-factobtw is that "by Category" page new? https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccines-category/protein-based/protein-subunits-and-virus-like-particles02:38
LjLoh you're right it's an "or", but that's easily fixed02:54
LjL("and" makes more sense to me)02:54
LjLerr i don't know. i didn't see it before, but i might have missed the presence of those three buttons entirely02:55
de-factoi just remembered we talking about the Distribution button being new at some point02:55
LjLhttps://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccines-category/other/ is probably a nice rabbit hole to dive into02:56
de-factointeresting what are those?02:59
bigbertha[m]1> e.g. mMRA from Germany + USA OR inactivated from China03:02
bigbertha[m]1why was i pinged03:02
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Man in Taiwan fined $3,500 for breaking COVID-19 quarantine for eight seconds → https://is.gd/09OjN803:02
de-factohuh? didnt intend to ping you03:04
de-factowas a typo btw i meant mRNA of course03:04
BrainstormUpdates for New Zealand: +6 cases (now 2085) since a day ago03:05
tinwhiskersouch. six new cases03:23
tinwhiskersall at the border at least03:25
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China conducting biological tests to create super soldiers, US spy chief says | China → https://is.gd/g2ks2u03:27
tinwhiskersstill no community cases since Nov 18, but the nagging question is always whether there is an unknown background of cases03:27
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +141 deaths (now 61435) since 19 hours ago03:37
xrogaanApparently, school have a pretty important role in transmitting SARS-COV203:50
xrogaanhttps://tu-dresden.de/tu-dresden/newsportal/news/schulen-sind-keine-silent-hotspots03:51
de-factohmm interesting is that published somewhere?04:00
de-factoi distrust schools studies, i have seen many fraudulent papers on that topic04:00
de-factohence i want to see the data itself with all associated info04:01
xrogaanI'm not aware. You could try contacting the author, info are at the bottom.04:06
xrogaanProbably not enough data to make any reliable conclusion.04:07
xrogaanhttps://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/info/66-Coronavirus-Update-Die-Stunde-der-Antigen-Tests,podcastcoronavirus266.html04:09
xrogaanIIUC kids somehow lost their antigen, and test reported the same number which induced an error in how it was reported.04:13
xrogaanRight, under a long period of time of several months.04:14
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: The Kremlin is offering Russians free vaccines, but will they take them? → https://is.gd/gJcs3404:29
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Nobel ceremonies go low-key this year because of coronavirus → https://is.gd/8za4Lb04:41
LjL-Matrixe: nobody actively pinged you in the backscroll that i can see (except me now), but maybe having "e" as a screenname is somewhat prone to mishighlights04:52
LjL<de-facto> interesting what are those?  ←  just vaccines that don't fit into any of the big categories. so, probably the more exotic ones04:54
de-factoxrogaan, btw found another about schools https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.38.200164504:55
de-facto%title04:55
Brainstormde-facto: From www.eurosurveillance.org: Eurosurveillance | Surveillance of COVID-19 school outbreaks, Germany, March to August 202004:56
de-factoLjL, yeah those are the interesting new concepts that dont fit into the common scheme04:56
xrogaanthanks04:56
de-factoxrogaan, another would be this04:59
de-facto%title https://www.helmholtz-muenchen.de/aktuelles/uebersicht/pressemitteilungnews/article/48939/index.html04:59
Brainstormde-facto: From www.helmholtz-muenchen.de: Mehr Infektionen als bekannt: Neue Studie zeigt Relevanz bevölkerungsweiter SARS-CoV-2-Antikörpertests auf – Helmholtz Zentrum München04:59
de-facto%title https://www.cell.com/med/fulltext/S2666-6340%2820%2930020-904:59
Brainstormde-facto: From www.cell.com: A Public Health Antibody Screening Indicates a 6-Fold Higher SARS-CoV-2 Exposure Rate than Reported Cases in Children: Med05:00
xrogaanso the disease breathe through the kids without affecting them too much?05:00
KREYREENAre the IR thermometers harmful to ya?05:19
KREYREENI can feel warmth each time i measure with it and then me head hurts~05:19
tinwhiskersno05:20
KREYREENwell i can feel warmth going through my head from the side where i measured~05:20
xrogaanInfrared is a light that we cannot see.05:21
tinwhiskerspsychosomatic I suspect. They use a very low powered infrared laser.05:22
KREYREENi can't see it, but i can feel it05:22
xrogaanYou emit IR right now.05:22
KREYREENtinwhiskers, nope tried to blindfold myself and for my room mate to measure it.. i was able to tell from where it came05:22
KREYREENand so did he05:22
tinwhiskersok05:22
xrogaanif IR was harmful to you, you wouldn't be alive.05:22
KREYREENmaybe broken somehow? it seems to be only with this thermometer05:23
LjLtinwhiskers, they don't use an infrared laser. they use a visible light laser as an "aim", then the actual temperature measurement is passive afaik05:24
tinwhiskersoh. ok05:24
tinwhiskersyou shouldn't be able to feel them anyway05:24
tinwhiskersunless, it's broken, as you say05:24
KREYREENLjL, this one seems to be using IR based on the packaging though05:25
tinwhiskersyes, it's measuring the IR emitted from your body05:25
LjLyes they use IR, in that they are based on sensing IR radiation coming *from* your body05:25
KREYREENtinwhiskers, ye i have two and i can only feel this one 05:25
xrogaanKREYREEN: the thermometer measure the amount of light it receive. It's not emitting infrared towards your skull.05:25
LjLthe laser is completely separate to that though05:25
KREYREENxrogaan, weird O.o05:25
xrogaanIt's measuring the amount of radiation you emit, to know how hot you are.05:26
KREYREENwhy can i feel it and makes my head hurt then?05:26
KREYREENo.o05:26
LjLi don't know05:26
xrogaan> psychosomatic05:26
KREYREENxrogaan, possible i guess05:27
tinwhiskersI think you should do another test with your room mate of when it is on and off, not where it is coming from.05:27
KREYREENtinwhiskers, will try 05:27
tinwhiskerscool05:27
LjLyeah, even with your eyes closed, there's a ton of ways you could know where your roommate is05:27
LjLsubconsciously05:27
LjLso just make it a random number of "am i turning it on or not?"05:27
LjLin a fixed position05:28
LjLyou shouldn't be able to answer with >50% accuracy05:28
KREYREENoke05:28
LjLunless they shoot the laser in your eye which is not a good idea05:28
xrogaanthat would be pointless if the thermometer makes a noise when turned on05:28
KREYREENthey sleep atm so i will try that when they wake up05:28
KREYREENxrogaan, doesn't make a noise 05:28
LjLbut also... why use infrared thermometers? they're good when you need to make a quick and dirty measurements, so stores, airports, etc05:29
LjLbut for measuring your own temperature i recommend a good old thermometer you put under your armpit or in your mouth (preferably not in this order without washing it in between)05:29
KREYREENLjL, i monitor my temperature alike 14 times a day and using the good old takes time~05:30
KREYREENand is kinda uncomfy05:30
LjLis there a reasy why you'd monitor it that often?05:30
tinwhiskersyou don't need to take an anal reading every time :-/05:30
KREYREENfwiw when i have the batteries in i can even feel it on my hands when turned off.. but removing the batteries feeling nothing O.o05:30
tinwhiskersI mean, rectal05:30
KREYREENLjL, comfort as i prefer to be at 36.7C and that changes during the day for me to know when it heat up and when to cool down as the natural reaction of the body is too slow and uncomfy when overheated~05:31
gigasu_shidaheh05:31
KREYREENalso health monitoring~05:31
KREYREENtinwhiskers, i put that under armpit uwu 05:32
xrogaanThat's ... absurd.05:32
LjLi second that assessment05:32
KREYREENeven though i am bisex nothing comes near my cute ass~05:32
LjLyour body changes its temperature during the day for reasons05:32
LjLlet it do that05:32
KREYREENLjL, i know i adjust it based on feel 05:32
tinwhiskerslet your body do it's own thing. It will do a better job of it.05:33
tinwhiskers*its05:33
KREYREENas i live in a cold room and sleep in 16C 05:33
KREYREENso letting it do it's own thing would be me with hypothermia x.x05:33
tinwhiskersif you *feel* cold, warm up. If you *feel* hot cool down. Don't use a thermometer to tell you that. You body knows better.05:34
KREYREENtinwhiskers, i may feel fine and have 35.2C while being confused to why am i shaking05:34
tinwhiskersif you feel fine then you are fine05:34
LjLthen you have some kind of medical condition, i think05:34
LjLtinwhiskers, if he has 35°C and he's shaking he's no fine, tbf05:34
KREYREENtinwhiskers, not really~ I may feel fine and not realize that i am cold to the point when i am shaking from it~05:35
xrogaantinwhiskers: unless subject to hypoxemia, that is.05:35
tinwhiskerso.O05:35
LjLKREYREEN, the shaking should probably be a clue, though05:35
KREYREENLjL, well i have dry skin so i assume that the dead skin blocks the pores and holds more heat O.o05:35
LjLnah05:35
xrogaanno.05:35
KREYREENO.o05:36
LjLit's not *normal* to have abnormally low body temperature and be shaking from it, while also feeling "fine" at the same time05:36
LjLsee a doctor05:36
KREYREENLjL, like i may have 35C on forehead but i could have lower temperature on other parts of the body which is usually the case when i notice being too cold05:37
tinwhiskersother parts can get quite a lot cooler without any problem05:37
KREYREENdoctors didn't find anything x.x 05:37
LjLgoing into hypothermia without realizing is... i don't know the name of this medical condition or if it even has a name, but it's most definitely not normal, and could be dangerous05:37
xrogaanAren't there medications to reduce your body temperature?05:37
KREYREENwas told to be weird for getting used to sleeping at such temps and drinking 5L of water daily~05:38
LjLsleeping at 16°C is nothing unusual from what i hear, just not common in my culture05:38
gigasu_shidahaha05:38
LjLbut i've been told off by foreigners a few times for using heating at 21°C or so05:38
KREYREENlike i am in central europe so it's warm here but i use AC to bring the temperature down bcs it's comfier to sleep in05:38
LjLyou actually...05:39
LjLsay it ain't so05:39
tinwhiskersback home I often sleep at around 5C inside05:39
KREYREENo.o05:39
gigasu_shidaljl have you ever had a swoll lymph node in your pectoral muscle area?05:39
KREYREEN5C is too low for me~ i want to be in a warn blanket heated by my body temperature05:39
LjLgigasu_shida, i assume you mean a swollen one... no, i've had swollen neck lymph nodes05:39
tinwhiskersyeah, it's too cold for me too :-)05:39
KREYREENo.o05:39
gigasu_shidahas anyone ever noticed a swollen lymph node in their pectoral muscle area?05:40
KREYREENaldo i don't mind down to -4C outside with tshirt~05:40
euod[m]LjL: milan fucking killed me with the heat. I couldn't believe anybody would be willing to sleep in the country at all. 05:40
KREYREENbeyond that i wear me isolated thin jacket~05:40
LjLtinwhiskers, i don't know about NZ but when my sister went to Australia she was kinda freezing because they just didn't have heating there, and sure, it's a warmer climate than here, but still, when it's 14°C outside for prolonged periods of time, at some point it will be 14°C inside too, and we're really not used to having temperatures that low indoor.05:40
tinwhiskersyeah, well I have poor insulation and heating my bedroom is a lost cause so it pretty much sits at outside temperatures - I use a lot of blankets.05:41
LjLeuod[m], nobody *wants* to be in Milan in the summer, that's why anyone who can afford it has a place in the alps to hide away during summer holidays05:41
tinwhiskersyeah, our older houses suck05:41
KREYREENi made a hole in my wall today and then isolated it~05:41
LjLeuod[m], there's actually a problem with Milan becoming devoid of open shops in August, because everything just closed down. less so in recent years, but... kinda still to some extent.05:41
KREYREENdamn worked made it to mold there uwu05:42
KREYREEN*workers05:42
tinwhiskersMy house is over 100 years old so has no wall insulation. When it's windy outside heating the bedroom is futile for any reasonable cost.05:42
tinwhiskersbut blankets are cheap05:42
LjLblankets don't really do it for me when it's *that* cold05:42
KREYREENtinwhiskers, why no coak and the membrane put on the outside of the house~05:42
tinwhiskersI don't know what that is05:42
KREYREENbasically a membrane used to isolate the house from wind and water that you wrap your house with05:43
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: After botched Covid-19 response, UK tackles giant vaccine rollout → https://is.gd/cARMKl05:43
tinwhiskersMy house has six fireplaces but keeping them all running is a mission.05:43
gigasu_shidais it like a membrane used for termite fumigation?05:43
KREYREENpretty cheap too and can be done by one person within 3 hours05:43
gigasu_shidathat would really keep the wind out05:43
KREYREENfor a big house O.o05:43
tinwhiskersand they don't last the night.05:43
gigasu_shidawood fires pollute anyways05:44
gigasu_shidai'd hate to live in a small town where everyone's burning wood05:44
tinwhiskersmeh. they're carbon neutral and I live in the country so air quality is not a problem.05:44
euod[m]try living somewhere upperclass.05:44
euod[m]same issue.05:44
KREYREENgigasu_shida, nah it's thin usually made out of plastic and then nailed on the outside of the house and the holes insulated with a tape05:44
gigasu_shidaoh i see those membranes on houses that are being built05:44
gigasu_shidait keeps the water out i guess05:44
KREYREENgigasu_shida, ye these~ pretty common practice05:45
euod[m]modern houses are mostly a lot more air tight. 05:45
KREYREENgigasu_shida, water and wind05:45
tinwhiskersNo, I wouldn't cover my house in a plastic sheet. It's an old iconic farm house. I don't even want to strip the lathe and plaster interior to insulate it.05:45
KREYREENbut the house should be designed to not keep any water so you usually want to have a space for airflow in front of that05:45
KREYREENtinwhiskers, it doesn't affect the look of the house mostly..05:45
KREYREENonly exterior 05:45
tinwhiskersI don't mind the cold tbh. I'm just saying.05:46
LjLwell it sounds like he cares about the exterior05:46
KREYREENalso for the interior you might want to take a look for the air-applied insulation.. basically you clean out your house tape windows and doors and release it inside and where it leaks it will insulate05:46
tinwhiskersyeah, I have considered that option.05:47
tinwhiskersBut, as I say, I really don't mind my bedroom being that cold. A couple of blankets and a couple of duvets and I'm fine. The worst part is getting out of bed in the morning.05:47
KREYREENI see O.o05:48
tinwhiskersMy lounge I have upgraded and it's lovely and warm and remains that way over night. Bedrooms are just a place to sleep then leave over winter :-)05:48
KREYREENi just have king-size bed that i mostly sleep alone in and with two blankets each for one leg and keeping chest open~05:48
de-factohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_temperature#/media/File:Body_Temp_Variation.png05:48
LjLi was reading something, i don't even remember where or what the main subject was, that claimed the more we regulate ambient factors like temperature to make it stable and "comfortable", the more our body forgets about its abilities to live in a wider range of environments05:48
de-factodaily periodic variation of almost one degree a bit like a sine wave or such05:49
LjLso if that's true, it's perfectly possible i'd totally freeze and be unable to sleep while tinwhiskers is snoring in 5°C05:49
tinwhiskersI have ducted heating that comes out the ceiling roses and that takes the edge off the bedrooms for a few hours at night, but come morning there is ice on the inside of the windows over winter.05:49
KREYREENLjL, o.o 05:49
LjLjust because he's gotten used to that over the years and i haven't05:49
tinwhiskersyeah05:50
KREYREENLjL, fwiw i mostly noticed similar behavior on people living in a cold climate~ seems that the bodies get used to the temperature and create more heat to balance that and like dogs get more hairs growing~05:50
LjL5°C just seems like an unfathomable temperature for me to sleep in, unless i'm in a pretty expensive sleeping bag05:50
KREYREENi can for sure notice my hair being more dense o.o05:50
LjLwell Milan has some extremes, if you don't have heating and A/C05:51
KREYREENLjL, fwiw the idea i see is to be very warm under a warm blanket with the ability for body to throw cool itself down during the sleep 05:51
LjLwe can almost touch 40°C in the summer, while i think our lowest point in recent decades was -12°C05:51
KREYREENsometimes i also wake up bcs i am too cold snuggle in the blanket and immediatelly fall asleep~05:51
KREYREENLjL, o.o05:52
tinwhiskersLjL: wow. We go to about 34 and down to -605:52
KREYREENi hate warm weather~ makes me overheat mostly unless i get a shower to normalize the temperature~05:52
KREYREENbut 36C and i feel like dieing anyway05:52
KREYREENwell even 32C i g05:53
LjLtinwhiskers, doesn't sound so different... 34°C is already torrid weather in my book, when we almost touch 40°C i'm generally just not here05:53
LjLthe difference is05:53
LjLin the winter, the apartment doesn't really go below 19°C05:53
tinwhiskersright. What's you latitude?05:53
LjLand in the summer, well... we didn't always have air conditioning here but we do now, so05:53
LjLtinwhiskers, around 45 north05:54
LjLbut if you compare that to american latitudes, the climate are completely different05:54
tinwhiskersI'm 43 05:54
LjLi determined with someone that we have similar climate to Washington DC05:54
LjLwell, similar temperatures05:54
KREYREENo.o05:54
LjLthey have a lot more bad storms05:54
LjL%geo washington, dc05:55
BrainstormLjL, Location not found for washington, dc. 05:55
KREYREENLjL, do you have any medical explanation to why i feel like dieing in zlin~05:55
LjLKREYREEN, you what?05:55
KREYREENi literally struggle breathing there and have to leave asap05:55
LjLzlin?05:55
KREYREENLjL, ye Zlin, Czech republic05:55
LjLuuuh i don't know05:55
KREYREENo.o05:55
tinwhiskersit almost seems like you have some thermoregulation issues.05:56
KREYREENtinwhiskers, in zlin it doesn't seem to be related to the temperature.. rather the air O.o05:56
tinwhiskersoh05:56
LjLthe worst about milan air is that it sometimes smells like manure. like a lot.05:57
tinwhiskerswell, then my guess is far less charitable05:57
LjLi remember getting out of a plane once and being like - oh yeah, i'm definitely in Milan.05:57
KREYREENaldo the air is based on the stations measuring it average yet it makes me feel terrible05:57
KREYREENLjL, lol05:57
LjLit's quite shocking, when you're in a plane with controlled air circulation, then suddenly you smell what it's like outside05:58
gigasu_shidalol manure05:58
LjLi don't know if it's manure or some chemicals from some factory somewhere or what05:58
LjLbut it smells like pungent... crap05:58
KREYREENLjL, the best smell!05:59
LjLi beg to differ05:59
KREYREENunless it's too intense~05:59
KREYREENx.x05:59
KREYREENsometimes calms me down e.g. being on a farm~05:59
LjLyou wake up, bring up the shutters, you're like oooh what a nice day, let's open the window, and then eeewww05:59
xrogaanIf the room temperature goes above 25°C, I get naked. The heat is unbearable.05:59
KREYREENprobably mostly bcs i am overwhelmed by the animals there~05:59
KREYREENLjL, lol05:59
LjL25°C is normal A/C setting in most places that use A/C routinely06:00
KREYREENxrogaan, simmilar 06:00
xrogaanno A/C here.06:00
de-factoLjL, heh at least you know 1) you are in Milan 2) everything is like it was before 3) your sense of smell works just fine :)06:00
KREYREENaround 23.5C is uncomfortable for me and 32C is unberable 06:00
LjLde-facto, well 3 is more important/meaningful than it used to be, but on the other hand, chances i'd be getting off a plane nowadays are *really slim*06:01
de-factoindeed06:01
KREYREENunless you have your own plane ^-^06:01
LjLi wish06:01
KREYREENlike cessna is cheap~06:01
LjLfor some definition of cheap06:01
KREYREENand you can recover from a spin in that so i see that as win~06:01
KREYREENLjL, last time i checked it was around 800K CZK06:02
LjLi'd much rather not get into a spin in the first place thank you very much06:02
KREYREENand 250K CZK for broken06:02
LjLKREYREEN, it's not just the cost of the airplane. fuel, maintenance, storage06:02
KREYREENLjL, yes, but it's a good practice to be trained to handle that situation06:02
LjLoh, and getting a license06:02
LjLthat's not particularly cheap either06:03
LjLalso i'd make the worst pilot ever06:03
KREYREENLjL, true the fuel gets price-y, maintainance is basically get certified and learn maintainance or pay someone and storage is 30K CZK last time i checked~06:03
KREYREENo.o06:03
KREYREENalso they have the hydrogen-powered aircrafts now that are waaaaay cheaper to pay for fuel 06:03
KREYREENbasically one-time 60K payment for small rafinery ofair06:04
LjLi have a better plan, i'll get rich by selling Brainstorm and buy a private jet and hire a pilot06:05
tinwhiskers\o/06:05
KREYREENLjL, private jet is expensive af lol06:05
LjLwell then i better sell Brainstorm for good money06:05
KREYREENhmm O.o06:06
LjLbut now, sleep06:06
KREYREENbut i slept already!06:06
LjLi mean me!06:06
KREYREENLjL, ah o.o06:06
LjLone of these days i'll enable the Markov06:07
de-factoLOL :)06:07
KREYREENlol brainstorm so cute~06:07
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Hong Kong returns to tightest COVID-19 restrictions as cases spike → https://is.gd/G253mN06:08
KREYREENLjL, can you make Brainstorm to give me virtual headpats 3x a day~06:08
gigasu_shidalol06:11
LjLKREYREEN, no, but i can do this06:11
LjL%compliment KREYREEN06:12
BrainstormKREYREEN, Never pet your dog when it is on fire. 06:12
LjLBrainstorm, that's not even a compliment ffs06:12
LjLnot even close06:12
KREYREENLjL, but i wanted headpats uwu06:12
KREYREENand i would pat my dog so hard if it was on fire~06:12
LjLyou can't always get what you want~06:13
KREYREENsaid who!06:13
KREYREENUwU06:14
tinwhiskers:-)06:14
LjLboo, the Markov chopper isn't chopping :(06:17
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Bill Gates says six Covid vaccines could be available by spring 2021: Bill Gates has predicted there could be as many as half a dozen Covid-19 vaccines approved and ready for distribution by the first quarter next year. → https://is.gd/aQ7Oxi06:20
KREYREENLjL, chop meh senpai~06:20
de-facto"Pfizer, Moderna, AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson and Novavax"06:23
LjLJohnson AND Johnson, duh06:24
de-facto"He did not name a sixth vaccine source." <-- ah ok06:24
KREYREENwhich vaccine seems to be the most promising in terms of side effects and the immune response btw?06:25
LjLmaybe it's his own06:25
LjLi'm going to say Moderna06:25
euod[m]moderna, probably.06:25
LjLbut we only have press releases, not hard data06:25
euod[m]they did well not to go to the whitehouse uh, vaccine summit? 06:26
de-factoNovavax Q4 2020, Inovio Pharma Q4 2020, BioNTech + Pfizer Q4 2020, Janssen (Johnson & Johnson) Q2 2021, Sanofi Pasteur + GSK H2 2021?, Jenner Institute (University of Oxford) H2 2021? source: https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccines-distribution06:28
tinwhiskersyeah, Oxford is using an adenovirus, which might work well the first time so it could save the day, but the mRNA vaccines seem to have better long-term prospects. Of those Moderna seems more practical to store/deliver.06:28
KREYREENLjL, why moderna? i though they are both RNA-based vaccines where i would think something like Novavax would be more safe to let the body get the immune response by exposing it to the dead rotavirus with spike protein of a SARS-CoV-2 ?06:28
tinwhiskersKREYREEN: yeah, well that's the traditional approach.... err rotavirus?06:29
tinwhiskers%vax novavax06:30
Brainstormtinwhiskers, Trial start: May 6, Researcher: Novavax, Country: USA, Participants: 42035, Vaccine: NVX-CoV2373, Stage: Testing on humans06:30
KREYREENtinwhiskers, sounded like rotavirus from what ppl explained to me O.o06:30
tinwhiskers"Novavax is developing a “subunit” vaccine - which sends copies of the virus’s spike protein directly into the body to stimulate an immune response."06:31
tinwhiskerserm. ok06:31
euod[m].. oh fuck off.06:31
KREYREENwhaaaat~06:31
KREYREENthat's my actual concern >.> probably very stupid though~06:32
tinwhiskersrotavirus is not related here afaik06:32
KREYREENas when that happened i was 5 yo~06:32
KREYREENand my friend has this ugly creater on his arm from a vaccine~06:33
KREYREENtinwhiskers, i see O.o06:33
de-factoabout the novax NVX-CoV2373 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa202692006:33
de-facto%title 06:33
Brainstormde-facto: From www.nejm.org: Phase 1–2 Trial of a SARS-CoV-2 Recombinant Spike Protein Nanoparticle Vaccine | NEJM06:33
de-facto"NVX-CoV2373 is a recombinant severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (rSARS-CoV-2) nanoparticle vaccine composed of trimeric full-length SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoproteins and Matrix-M1 adjuvant."06:33
KREYREENtinwhiskers, maybe renevirus or something alike? ppl told me that over the phone x.x06:33
KREYREENrecombinant!06:33
KREYREENclose enough~06:33
tinwhiskerserr. no06:34
KREYREEN... yes forget i said rotavirus and renewhatever06:34
tinwhiskersrecombinant? no.06:34
KREYREENo.o06:34
KREYREENsounds the same!06:34
KREYREENalmost06:34
de-factoso basically its the S-protein from SARS-CoV-2 exposed to the immune system by their Matrix-M1 adjuvant (thats like a body that is "spiked" with the s-protein afaik)06:34
KREYREENwhat's matrix-m106:35
tinwhiskersif your friend got a scar from a vaccine it may have been the BCG vaccine, which gives about 15% of people a scar, iirc.06:35
tinwhiskersother vaccines can cause scars in more rare cases.06:35
de-factothat ensures the correct orientation of the s-protein exposing the immunologic surfaces so that the antibodies can be developed against the epitopes that also are exposed when the s-protein is on the surface of sars-cov-206:36
de-factohttps://www.novavax.com/our-unique-technology06:37
de-facto"At 35 days, NVX-CoV2373 appeared to be safe, and it elicited immune responses that exceeded levels in Covid-19 convalescent serum. The Matrix-M1 adjuvant induced CD4+ T-cell responses that were biased toward a Th1 phenotype."06:39
de-facto"Matrix-M1, a saponin-based adjuvant,12 was manufactured by Novavax."06:42
de-facto%title https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.004145106:43
Brainstormde-facto: From journals.plos.org: Matrix-M™ Adjuvant Induces Local Recruitment, Activation and Maturation of Central Immune Cells in Absence of Antigen06:43
de-facto"rSARS-CoV-2, developed by Novavax and manufactured at Emergent Biosolutions, is a recombinant nanoparticle vaccine constructed from the full-length (i.e., including the transmembrane domain), wild-type SARS-CoV-2 spike glycoprotein (GenBank accession number, MN908947; nucleotides 21563–25384) optimized in the established baculovirus Spodoptera frugiperda (Sf9) insect cell-expression system"06:45
de-facto"rSARS-CoV-2 and Matrix-M1 were mixed just before use. Each participant received two intramuscular injections of trial vaccine or placebo (injection volume, 0.6 ml) in the deltoid muscle, one injection on day 0 and one on day 21."06:45
KREYREENSo i tried the thermometer06:45
KREYREENshe doesn't feel anything~06:45
KREYREENso i think i am a psychopath06:46
KREYREENtinwhiskers, that was a vaccine for a desease that causes bumps all over the body afaik.. it's 2cm in diameter crater 2mm deep06:47
KREYREENnoted definition of Matrix-M1, no idea what saponin is x.x06:47
KREYREENde-facto, ^06:47
de-factohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saponin06:49
de-facto"Adjuvant Matrix-M (TM) is comprised of 40 nm nanoparticles composed of Quillaja saponins, cholesterol and phospholipid. "06:50
de-factosee my link above https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.004145106:51
de-factohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quillaja06:52
de-facto%title https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6337100/06:52
Brainstormde-facto: From www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov: Saponins from Quillaja saponaria and Quillaja brasiliensis: Particular Chemical Characteristics and Biological Activities06:52
xrogaanpsychopath what?06:54
xrogaanpsychosomatic has nothing to do with psychopath06:54
de-facto%title https://ir.novavax.com/news-releases/news-release-details/novavax-provides-phase-3-covid-19-vaccine-clinical-development06:56
Brainstormde-facto: From ir.novavax.com: Novavax Provides Phase 3 COVID-19 Vaccine Clinical Development Update | Novavax Inc. - IR Site06:56
xrogaanpsychosomatic means that a disorder is being generated amd/or driven by your mind. That it is not a mechanical issue, like a broken bone.06:56
de-factoplacebo effect06:58
de-factooh there are even more press releases https://ir.novavax.com/press-releases07:00
de-factonewest https://ir.novavax.com/news-releases/news-release-details/novavax-announces-covid-19-vaccine-clinical-development-progress07:00
de-factowhy dont all the vaccine manufacturers provide RSS or ATOM feeds about their press releases?07:02
BrainstormUpdates for Bermuda, United Kingdom: +18 cases (now 306) since 2 days ago — Belgium: +859 cases (now 592615), +66 deaths (now 17386) since a day ago — Anguilla, United Kingdom: +3 cases (now 10) since 3 days ago07:05
xrogaande-facto: it's reportedly "old tech" and "modern" people dislike whatever is old. That's what I've read.07:29
xrogaanI could go deeper, but it's not covid related.07:29
BrainstormUpdates for US: +208557 cases (now 15.4 million), +1512 deaths (now 290474) since 17 hours ago07:37
euod[m]4.7%.07:38
de-factowell yeah its RSS and ATOM are old but standardized, so since the vaccine manufacturers dont provide something with the same functionality (i wont subscribe to their email spamming exposing my mail address) i guess i wont read all their press releases. their loss.07:50
BrainstormUpdates for Wales, United Kingdom: +2021 cases (now 91013), +2 deaths (now 2711) since a day ago — Moscow Oblast, Russia: +1315 cases (now 119550), +31 deaths (now 2283) since a day ago — Samara, Russia: +274 cases (now 24213), +4 deaths (now 455) since a day ago — Crimea Republic, Ukraine: +271 cases (now 17109), +6 deaths (now 332) since a day ago08:05
xrogaande-facto: there are smartphone apps probably, designed to spy on you.08:06
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: First person receives Covid-19 vaccine in UK: Margaret Keenan, 90, says she feels "so privileged" to receive the jab as the UK begins the biggest vaccination programme in NHS history. → https://is.gd/48MboF08:22
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: A 90-year-old woman gets first Covid vaccine in UK, as massive rollout begins: Margaret Keenan, a 90 year-old grandmother, made history as she became the first person to receive the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine outside of trial conditions. → https://is.gd/iQ9QGO08:34
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: First person receives Covid-19 vaccine in UK: Margaret Keenan, 90, says she feels "so privileged" to receive the jab as the UK begins the biggest vaccination programme in NHS history. → https://is.gd/48MboF08:47
de-facto[m]Neat so hopefully this is the start of the end to the pandemic08:58
euod[m]it's going to be more than a year before there's a substantial portion of any population vaccinated. 08:59
de-facto[m]Yes it will take quite some time and effort until we see substantial decline in fatalities and hopefully also infections09:05
BrainstormNew from COVID-19 Vaccine News: 90-Year-Old Receives First Coronavirus Vaccine: Margaret Keenan, 90, is the first person in the world to receive a clinically authorized, fully tested coronavirus vaccine. She was given the shot at a hospital in Coventry, in central England → https://is.gd/K5ZbLL09:11
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: First person receives Covid-19 vaccine in UK: Margaret Keenan, 90, says she feels "so privileged" to receive the jab as the UK begins the biggest vaccination programme in NHS history. → https://is.gd/48MboF09:23
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: British grandma is first in world to get Pfizer vaccine outside trial (87 votes) | https://reut.rs/2JWR7rI | https://redd.it/k9003s09:32
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: What are schools doing to feed students during COVID-19-related closures?: As schools across the United States are grappling with remote and hybrid learning due to the COVID-19 pandemic, a new study in the Journal of Nutrition Education and Behavior, investigates the initial responses of child nutrition administrative agencies [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/ErXH0c09:48
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Travel restrictions must be used in a targeted way to be effective at controlling local COVID-19 transmission: study: The measures may have limited impact on the epidemic within individual countries except those with low levels of the virus or that have strong travel links with countries experiencing high rates of infection. → https://is.gd/FPnBfy10:00
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Researchers study the effects of parental job loss on families during the pandemic: A team of UTSA researchers has discovered that economic implications because of COVID-19 can have a devastating ripple effect on children. Monica Lawson, assistant professor of psychology, Megan Piel, assistant professor of social work and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/0zTCDE10:13
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Indonesia expects halal certificate for experimental vaccine: Indonesia's highest Muslim clerical body is expected to issue a halal certification for the experimental COVID-19 vaccine developed by China-based Sinovac Biotech, officials said Monday. → https://is.gd/bATaLA10:25
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: First person receives Covid-19 vaccine in UK: Margaret Keenan, who turns 91 next week, said it was the "best early birthday present" to receive the jab as the UK begins the biggest vaccination programme in NHS history. → https://is.gd/48MboF10:37
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Diseases, Conditions, Syndromes: Should I wipe down groceries during the pandemic? → https://is.gd/Dm4eV910:50
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Hong Kong to impose new virus restrictions to battle fourth wave: Hong Kong will ban evening dining at restaurants and close fitness centres, the city's leader said Tuesday, as part of new measures aimed at stemming a fourth wave of coronavirus infections. → https://is.gd/WRBVYP11:02
BrainstormNew from NPR: In NYC, Christmas Without Tourists Is Not Merry For Businesses: Holiday tourism is off sharply in New York. Businesses are looking for other ways to break even this holiday season because they usually count on a big bump in tourist revenue this time of year. → https://is.gd/x5e7CW11:14
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: First person receives Covid-19 vaccine in UK: Margaret Keenan, who turns 91 next week, said it was the "best early birthday present" to receive the jab as the UK begins the biggest vaccination programme in NHS history. → https://is.gd/48MboF11:27
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +4262 cases (now 358568), +120 deaths (now 5527) since 23 hours ago11:51
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Mystery illness frays India's coronavirus nerves: Hundreds of people have been treated for mystery illness in a southern Indian town, with one doctor ruling out "mass hysteria" at a time nerves are already frayed because of the coronavirus. → https://is.gd/3FNKjo11:51
BrainstormNew from NPR: U.K. Begins Nationwide Coronavirus Immunization, Largest In Nation's History: A 90-year-old woman from Coventry received the first vaccine shot as part of the United Kingdom's nationwide immunization campaign launched Tuesday. → https://is.gd/ug2nRe12:04
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Voluntary blood donations back to pre-COVID levels: National Blood Transfusion Council → https://is.gd/mlFlhW12:29
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: First person receives Covid-19 vaccine in UK: Margaret Keenan, who turns 91 next week, said it was the "best early birthday present" to receive the jab as the UK begins the biggest vaccination programme in NHS history. → https://is.gd/48MboF12:40
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: When will you be eligible for the Covid vaccine?: The Pfizer/BioNtech vaccine is being given to people across the UK from Tuesday - when will it be available for you? → https://is.gd/VYjcP813:05
BrainstormUpdates for US: +209486 cases (now 15.4 million), +1687 deaths (now 290649) since 23 hours ago13:36
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Researchers share database for studying individual differences in language skills: Why do people differ in their ability to use language? As part of a larger study into this question, researchers from the Max Planck Institute for Psycholinguistics (MPI) and Radboud University tested 122 adult native speakers of Dutch on [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/kqhIT813:42
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: First person receives Covid-19 vaccine in UK: Margaret Keenan, who turns 91 next week, becomes the first person in the world to get the jab as part of a mass vaccination programme, calling it the "best early birthday present". → https://is.gd/48MboF13:55
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): FDA says Pfizer Covid vaccine data did not raise safety concerns → https://is.gd/eVbRtY14:19
BrainstormUpdates for Sweden: +18820 cases (now 297732), +133 deaths (now 7200) since 3 days ago — Denmark: +2150 cases (now 94799), +7 deaths (now 901) since a day ago14:22
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +5366 cases (now 570437), +47 deaths (now 9775) since 21 hours ago14:50
CoronaBot04/r/coronavirus: BBC News - First patient receives Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine (10300 votes) | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55227325 | https://redd.it/k8zl3d15:04
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +5647 cases (now 1.2 million), +343 deaths (now 19540) since 23 hours ago15:08
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: (news): U.S. declined to buy more Pfizer Covid vaccine doses, even after interim data, board member Gottlieb says → https://is.gd/DvWYsN15:09
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Pfizer’s coronavirus vaccine offers strong protection after first dose → https://is.gd/ghglPi15:22
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Pharma: STAT+: Pharmalittle: FDA staff backs Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine; Trump administration failed to lock in larger vaccine supply → https://is.gd/172WK015:35
BrainstormNew from StatNews: FDA scientists endorse ‘highly effective’ Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine ahead of key panel: Scientists at the FDA endorsed the efficacy and safety of the Covid-19 vaccine from Pfizer and BioNTech in detailed documents, setting the stage for an emergency authorization as early as… → https://is.gd/KdiWhF15:48
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: German region to close schools, some shops as virus cases soar: The eastern German state of Saxony will from Monday impose drastic measures shuttering schools, kindergartens and most shops to curb transmission, after it became the worst-hit coronavirus hotspot in the country. → https://is.gd/DX5PCF16:00
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Development of high-speed nanoPCR technology for point-of-care diagnosis of COVID-19: A nanoPCR technology was developed for the point-of-care (POC) diagnosis of coronavirus disease-19 (COVID-19). This new technology can diagnose the infection within ~20 minutes while retaining the accuracy of conventional reverse transcription [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/fl0Ufp16:13
IndoAnonPFIZER CEO BOURLA SAYS WORKING ON A NEW FORMULATION TO AVOID HAVING TO STORE COVID-19 VACCINE AT MINUS 70 DEGREES CELSIUS, SAYS HAS CONFIDENCE IN UK REGULATOR AFTER ITS DECISION TO APPROVE VACCINE16:19
IndoAnonBREAKING - Switzerland’s medical regulator stalls Swiss authorization of #COVID19 vaccines: "Important data on safety, efficacy, and quality are still missing."16:19
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Safety data on Pfizer jab released by US: American regulators are yet to approve the vaccine, despite the UK pushing ahead with mass rollout. → https://is.gd/SkcRBi16:26
BrainstormUpdates for Sri Lanka: +798 cases (now 29378) since 23 hours ago16:36
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Saint Petersburg eyes virus lockdown amid record deaths: Russia's second city Saint Petersburg registered a record number of virus deaths on Tuesday as authorities warned of an imminent lockdown and shuttered restaurants for the New Year's holidays. → https://is.gd/FuiyVX16:38
BrainstormUpdates for St. Martin: +84 cases (now 801) since 7 days ago — Netherlands: +6472 cases (now 571543), +51 deaths (now 9779) since 23 hours ago — St. Barthelemy: +15 cases (now 162) since 7 days ago16:50
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: UK begins rollout of Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine: Here's what you need to know: Ninety-year-old Margaret Keenan on Tuesday became the first person in the world to receive the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine outside of trial conditions. → https://is.gd/OHyaEO16:50
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Expanded Access Protocol on Bone Marrow Mesenchymal Stem Cell Derived Extracellular Vesicle Infusion Treatment for Patients With COVID-19 Associated ARDS → https://is.gd/rkNiYd17:03
BrainstormUpdates for Italy: +14837 cases (now 1.8 million), +634 deaths (now 61240) since 23 hours ago17:08
DocScrutinizer05corona-virus-update 1:57:44 WTF?!17:08
DocScrutinizer05de-facto: ^^^17:09
DocScrutinizer05%paper leopoldina17:15
BrainstormDocScrutinizer05: An error occurred while searching.17:15
DocScrutinizer05https://www.politico.eu/article/germany-experts-christmas-lockdown-december-coronavirus-deaths/17:16
DocScrutinizer05https://www.icis.com/explore/resources/news/2020/12/08/10583911/german-science-academy-calls-for-hard-lockdown-as-coronavirus-cases-keep-surging17:18
DocScrutinizer05LjL: toot  https://www.leopoldina.org/uploads/tx_leopublication/2020_12_08_Stellungnahme_Corona_Feiertage_final.pdf17:19
DocScrutinizer05root*17:19
IndoAnonwhat is that17:32
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +12281 cases (now 1.8 million), +598 deaths (now 62033) since 14 hours ago17:36
DocScrutinizer05this is a "the hell do a hard lockdown NOW!" call of all leading german scientists17:36
DocScrutinizer05[6 Dec 2020 06:49:54] * DocScrutinizer05 affords the luxury to maintain faint hope for a hard lockdown starting in a week or so17:45
LjLDocScrutinizer05: if you think that's bad, consider that here they have compromised on tightening restrictions (but no hard lockdown, just cannot move out of your municipality, and curfew at 22:00 continues) for the days just around Christmas and New Year's, but at the same time, shops opening times will be *extended* to 21:00 and they've agreed that all schools (including the ones currently closed) will reopen after January 717:51
LjLMeanwhile more and more regions are leaving the "red" and "orange" states, which also means fewer restrictions17:52
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: Pfizer-Biontech covid-19 vaccine (bnt162, pf-07302048) vaccines and related biological products advisory committee briefing document (80 votes) | https://www.fda.gov/media/144246/download | https://redd.it/k9498k17:53
LjL-Matrix<IndoAnon "BREAKING - Switzerland’s medical"> Can't say I blame them... The UK is already starting rollout but... Where is the paper?! Hopefully their regulatory agency *has* the paper (hopefully!), but I don't see how that's supposed to inspire public confidence, rolling out a vaccine with the only publicly known information about it being a stinking press release17:58
LjLokay then, i'll have to amend what i just said: a stinking press release, and a pretty detailed FDA PDF18:02
LjLde-facto, ↑ you probably want to read that18:03
DocScrutinizer05LjL: I don't think that's bad, I think it's about time the ignorant suckers that govern us finally grow a brain and get a grip on what's needed18:03
IndoAnonLjL-Matrix: It still stinks18:05
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: Expanded Access to ZofinTM (OrganicellTM Flow) for Patients With COVID-19: Conditions :    Covid19;   Corona Virus Infection;   SARS (Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome);   Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome → https://is.gd/dhGg0I18:06
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Expanded Access Protocol on Bone Marrow Mesenchymal Stem Cell Derived Extracellular Vesicle Infusion Treatment for Patients With COVID-19 Associated ARDS → https://is.gd/rkNiYd18:18
DocScrutinizer05LjL: I'm sure de-facto also will do a sigh of relief reading this paper (and the other news in same mindset, like Saxony doing full shutdown now, Bavaria going into much stricter lockdown tomorrow, etc)18:20
BrainstormUpdates for Arizona, US: +12314 cases (now 378157), +23 deaths (now 6973) since a day ago18:22
Jigsy%cases UK18:29
BrainstormJigsy: In United Kingdom, there have been 1.8 million confirmed cases (2.6% of the population) and 62033 deaths (3.5% of cases) as of 55 minutes ago. 46.0 million tests were performed (3.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data.18:29
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is safe and effective, researchers confirm in peer-reviewed study: The coronavirus vaccine developed by British pharmaceuticals giant AstraZeneca, in collaboration with the University of Oxford, is the first to have its late-stage trial results independently reviewed and published in a medical journal. → https://is.gd/fCbW2f18:31
BrainstormUpdates for Canada: +6845 cases (now 426298), +110 deaths (now 12823) since 22 hours ago18:36
BrainstormNew from CNBC Health: FDA says Pfizer Covid vaccine provides some protection after first dose, meets success criteria: The FDA said data from Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine trials was "consistent" with recommendations put forth by the agency for an emergency use authorization. → https://is.gd/eVbRtY18:43
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Caregivers feeling the strain this tough holiday season: (HealthDay)—The coronavirus pandemic makes the holidays even more difficult for caregivers of loved ones with Alzheimer's disease and other types of dementia, an expert says. → https://is.gd/bXI7N618:56
tinwhiskersThat's good news18:58
tinwhiskersHeh18:59
Arsaneritexcept maybe when trying to buy groceries at a quiet hour18:59
tinwhiskersAny other restrictions?18:59
Arsaneritapart from the ones already in place?18:59
Arsaneritnot sure if full details have been announced yet19:00
tinwhiskersAny meaningful restrictions?19:00
LjLuhm are they going to use this weak study to push through with AstraZeneca approval even though they're still busy "re-doing" phase 3?19:01
Arsaneritno public alcohol consumption and no alcohol sales for immediate consumption; there apply to hotspots such as where I live, on top of the restrictions already in place (max 5 people gathering, bars and restauranst closed, ban on tourists)19:01
LjLi mean this one, i was scrolled up a bit: <Brainstorm> New from CNBC Health: Oxford-AstraZeneca vaccine is safe and effective, researchers confirm in peer-reviewed study: The coronavirus vaccine developed by British pharmaceuticals giant AstraZeneca, in collaboration with the University of Oxford, is the first to have its late-stage trial results independently reviewed and published in a medical journal. → https://is.gd/fCbW2f19:01
Arsaneritthe restrictions apply to counties with more than 200 cases per 100k inhabitants per week, ours is at 199,3 today according to one calculation but it seems we're still included19:02
tinwhiskersArsanerit: ok. Do you think the restrictions go far enough?19:03
tinwhiskersLjL: well they kind of had a serendipitous success so while it's not ideal it's not terrible.19:05
Arsanerittinwhiskers: no19:06
LjLtinwhiskers, the worst case of 62% (and that's not even the actual worst case since i don't know the confidence interval) is pretty bad if you ask me. yeah i know it's >50% but still19:06
ArsaneritI think schools need to go into Wechselunterricht at the very least (alternating in-class and remote education by day such that pupils can distance)19:06
LjLalso for a change CNBC doesn't link to the actual study, pfft19:06
LjLthe study should have no new data but it may give us some of the data that the press release didn't have19:07
Arsanerit62% what?19:07
tinwhiskersEffectiveness19:07
LjLalso i'm trying to figure out why the bot doesn't post from The Lancet, it *does* have it as an RSS source :( but they have a number of RSS feeds https://www.thelancet.com/content/rss and i don't know which one is the one i want to have19:07
tinwhiskersAh. It was posting from lancet for a while wasn't it?19:08
LjLArsanerit, they had two dose regimens, "half dose" and "full dose". it happened kind of by mistake. the efficacy in the "half dose" group was 90% or so, but in the "full dose" it was 62%, and in total it was around 70%19:08
LjLthere are other details such as that the "half dose" group didn't include people over 5519:08
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Oxford Covid vaccine 'safe and effective' study shows: The peer-reviewed work in the Lancet medical journal confirms the vaccine is 'safe and protects'. → https://is.gd/A7F7Px19:09
LjLtinwhiskers, it did post some things, but it was rarely on the ball with the new studies that came out19:09
tinwhiskersAh19:09
tinwhiskersYeah, there's certainly good reason to be sceptical19:09
LjLtinwhiskers, actually no, i take it back, it never posted from the lancet ;(19:11
tinwhiskersOh19:11
LjLbut i had https://www.thelancet.com/rssfeed/lancet_current.xml19:12
LjLthat's probably the articles from the print edition19:12
LjLi should probably have the "online first" feed19:12
LjLtinwhiskers, also you know what, i'm inept, when i grep my logs i can't actually find all the "New from" Brainstorm posts because it uses italic and the IRC codes for that end up in the logs and i'm not sure how to make grep ignore them, and also it shows *some* entries and not others so that's extra confusing19:15
LjLi am tempted to just yank it and use another off-the-shelf bot for the RSS feeds, my module is... bad19:16
LjLi don't think it's salvageable19:16
ArsaneritLjL: ok19:19
DocScrutinizer05Arsanerit: seems Saxony goes full shutdown. There's a lot in the pipeline for this week I guess19:29
DocScrutinizer05Arsanerit: Bavaria already does more strict lockdown starting tomorrow19:29
LjLoh nice, BBC was nice enough to actually link to the study19:32
Arsaneritfull is relative19:32
Arsaneritbbl19:32
LjLIn  participants  who  received  two  standard  doses, vaccine efficacy was 62·1% (95% CI 41·0–75·7; 27 [0·6%] of 4440 in the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 group vs 71 [1·6%] of  4455  in  the  control  group)  and  in  participants  who  received  a  low  dose  followed  by  a  standard  dose,  efficacy  was 90·0% (67·4–97·0; three [0·2%] of 1367 vs 30 [2·2%] of 1374; pinteraction=0·010). Overall vaccine efficacy across both groups was 719:33
LjL0·4% (95·8% CI 54·8–80·6; 30 [0·5%] of 5807 vs 101 [1·7%] of 5829).19:33
LjLit's baaaaaarely above 50% overall at the lower end of the confidence interval19:33
LjLtinwhiskers, DocScrutinizer05, de-facto ↑ (figures from AstraZeneca's new study)19:33
LjLthe confidence intervals are honestly worse than i feared19:34
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: J&J readies 500 mn vaccine doses for poor countries: US pharmaceutical giant Johnson & Johnson said Tuesday it plans to provide 500 million doses of its vaccine for poor countries once results of clinical trials are announced by the end of  January. → https://is.gd/jR7u7Y19:40
LjLthis is my opinion, but longer: https://np.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/k971ti/safety_and_efficacy_of_the_chadox1_ncov19_vaccine/gf2w5cq/19:46
tinwhiskersLjL: yipes19:48
LjLtinwhiskers, what i'm really concerned about is... what would this one study be for exactly, if not for the purpose of nudging regulatory authorities to give approval despite the pending additional trial?19:48
LjLi mean, i suspect they didn't publish this just to appease *our* want for knowledge of the CIs19:49
DocScrutinizer05LjL: well, 50% would be pretty poor efficiency but still no argument to NOT use the vaccine, right?19:49
tinwhiskersYes, it seems entirely unsatisfactory to get approval19:50
LjLconsidering the adenovirus vector, DocScrutinizer05, i'd say it's a good argument NOT to use the vaccine19:50
LjLmake a better vaccine on that adenovirus vector19:50
LjLdon't "waste" it on this thing that's possibly worse than a flu vaccine19:50
tinwhiskersPeople thinking they have been vaccinated but in fact have a vaccine that doesn't work is worse than not having the vaccine.19:50
LjLthe fact that they put 50% as a minimum bar for approval doesn't mean we HAVE to use a very poor vaccine when there are much better ones19:51
DocScrutinizer05ooh, that's indeed a valid point19:51
LjLyes, what tinwhiskers says too19:51
LjLright now, if i were offered this vaccine, i would decline19:51
DocScrutinizer05I hope for the mRNA vaccine19:52
tinwhiskersYes, wasting the one-shot potential of the adenovirus on an ineffective vaccine would be a bad choice.19:52
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: COVID-19: Persistent symptoms in one third of cases: Since its appearance in early 2020, COVID-19 has been unpredictable for both physicians and affected individuals given the variety and duration of its symptoms. Notably, it appears to have the potential to cause an unusually long-lasting illness, and the term "long COVID" [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/qHiKVa19:53
de-factoLjL, any new data on their study?19:57
de-factobtw what does their efficiency tell? protection from severe progression or protection from early replication (hence sterilizing immunity)19:59
de-factoi guess the former since the later would be headlines all over the media19:59
DocScrutinizer05help m e out, which vaccine they start shooting in GB now?19:59
de-factoPfizer/BioNTech from Mainz20:00
DocScrutinizer05aah so the mRNA20:00
de-factoyup 20:00
DocScrutinizer05don't know if anybody already plans to use the supposedly flawed AZ vaccine20:01
tinwhiskersNot only is it awesome to see an mRNA vaccine actually in use, it's great to have the UK as our guinea pigs :-/20:01
de-factoWhy dont vaccine manufacturers include screening for asymptomatic infections in their phase III studies to determine the degree of sterilizing immunity (preventing transmission hence the ONE relevant parameter for the pandemic)?20:01
DocScrutinizer05hehehehe indeed20:01
DocScrutinizer05de-facto: lack of test capacity, both in lab and in personal to pester a 40k guinea pigs twice a week20:02
tinwhiskersde-facto: yes, a clearly neglected aspect. I suspect it comes down to speed because those tests are still on their way.20:03
de-factothey could do that 1) by regular nasal swab tests doing a RT-PCR every few days for all their participants 2) they could test for N-protein antibodies with an ELISA test since those would not be generated by vaccines that only target the S-protein, hence presence of N-protein antibodies in the blood serum would indicate that there was some virus replication with the wild type going in in the participants cells20:03
tinwhiskersI personally don't see why that would slow it down, but if it was about money surely they would have done that in the first trial.20:03
DocScrutinizer05de-facto: ( 2) ) nice catch. Indeed possible approach20:04
tinwhiskersMaybe, if they knew that would be doing a second trial anyway it may have been about money.20:04
tinwhiskersDo the minimum to get regulatory approval first.20:05
de-factothe N-protein antibody test they could even do after the study finished its a one time test, so really not that challenging to do for 30k participants20:05
DocScrutinizer05however, "some replication" still doesn't exactly translate to asymptomatic fully contagious infection20:05
tinwhiskersPerhaps that's what they'll do20:06
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: 'Route out' of pandemic: UK gives 1st COVID-19 vaccine doses: A retired British shop clerk received the first shot in the country's COVID-19 vaccination program Tuesday, the start of an unprecedented global immunization effort intended to offer a route out of a pandemic that has killed 1.5 million. → https://is.gd/cf150q20:06
de-factoi think they are afraid that bad numbers might give their opponent an advantage on the market20:06
tinwhiskersYeah, maybe20:06
tinwhiskersIf we could get the vaccine out to everyone quickly it wouldn't really matter if asymptomatic infections still occurred, but we can't.20:07
LjLseems like some people in r/covid19 take the "only medical sources" thing as a way to avoid thinking with their own head: https://np.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/k971ti/safety_and_efficacy_of_the_chadox1_ncov19_vaccine/gf2xiys/ what the hell does it mean it's "comfortably over" their requirements? it sucks, look at the data, it sucks20:08
de-factoDocScrutinizer05, yeah but probably the degree to N-protein antibodies would be somewhat proportional to the amount of wild type viral replication, if it only happened very few times probably there would not be many antibodies against that then, but if it really replicated for a short time to an infectious amount the immune system probably would get alarmed and build antibodies against that presence of big amounts of alien N-protein20:08
DocScrutinizer05it's unlikely we get sufficient number of vaccinations done next 11 months, and then we will encounter a really challenging situation which nobody willing to comply with ANY NPI anymore but still a 50% or more fully susceptible to covid20:09
DocScrutinizer05dang, 9 minutes beyond "daily WTF" aka ARD news20:09
de-factotry tagesschau.de20:10
de-factoit can delay back on live stream with arrow left20:10
generalol20:10
DocScrutinizer05BBL20:10
DocScrutinizer05got a VDR so I got "my own back arrow key" ;-D20:11
de-factohehe nice20:11
DocScrutinizer05in 4 minutes another "Brennbunkt" special regarding covid20:11
DocScrutinizer05brennpunkt even20:12
CoronaBot04/r/covid19: Safety and efficacy of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine (AZD1222) against SARS-CoV-2: an interim analysis of four randomised controlled trials in Brazil, South Africa, and the UK (82 votes) | https://marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620326611.pdf | https://redd.it/k971ti20:12
de-factoyeah hopefully they will criticize the government and push for a lockdown in Germany20:12
de-factowe really need that20:12
tinwhiskersYeah20:12
tinwhiskersA lot of countries need to bite the bullet on that and stop pussyfooting around20:13
de-factonice there is the paper ^^ CoronaBot20:15
DocScrutinizer05particularly they need to understand it need an "integral regulation" approach, so far all they do is "proportional" which guarantees incidences staying at same high level, not going down20:15
de-factoi think last week we broke all time records with both daily new infections and daily fatalities20:16
de-factothat really cant be called "lockdown"20:16
de-factothat looks like a really good paper at first sight20:17
de-facto"Safety and efficacy of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine (AZD1222) against SARS-CoV-2: an interim analysis of four randomised controlled trials in Brazil, South Africa, and the UK " https://marlin-prod.literatumonline.com/pb-assets/Lancet/pdfs/S0140673620326611.pdf20:18
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add FDA Prizer-BioNTech release with preliminary approval of this vac… → https://is.gd/D3Y2Fr20:18
LjLde-facto, what makes you say that? the confidence interval numbers look rather appalling to me...20:19
LjL(despite being barely over 50% so yes, it can probably be approved, although they had to squeeze out a new statistical analysis to make sure of that, and there are lies, damn lies, and statistics)20:19
de-factothe 90% half-dose/full-dose numbers are there: 3/1367 (0·2%) in the vaccinated group and 30/1374 (2·2%)20:20
BrainstormUpdates for Mauritania: +197 cases (now 9876), +3 deaths (now 197) since a day ago20:22
LjLde-facto, that makes for a lower end of the confidence interval at 67.4%, and that's when looking at that subgroup but we still don't really know what makes that subgroup so different from the full-dose group20:22
de-factoand even Asymptomatic or symptoms unknown (COV002) LD/SD recipients 7/1120 (0·6%) vaccinated vs 17/1127 (1·5%)  in control20:22
LjLthat looks barely significant to me20:23
de-factoso that could mean 58·9% protection from asymptomatic disease hence also transmission 20:23
de-factoright?20:23
LjL"could" yeah, but what confidence interval would come out of those very small numbers?20:24
de-facto(i havent read any test yet only looked at that table 2)20:24
LjLde-facto, the lower end of the confidence interval for people who took two full doses is below 50% (45%ish). that's the number that worries me, unless and until we figure out what makes the half-dose+full-dose group better, for which they *admitted* they need another trial20:25
de-factoi dont care for the two full dose numbers at all20:26
de-factoobviously its not going to be used like that20:26
LjLyeah okay let's forget the half-dose regimen exists by mistake in the first place20:27
LjLlet's forget there are no people over 55 in that group20:27
LjLlet's say the full dose numbers are completely unimportant20:27
LjLlet's... not20:27
DocScrutinizer05LjL: you sound a little bit upset and biased20:28
de-factothat point with no people over 55 in the half dose/full dose branch is very important 20:28
tinwhiskersGetting favorable results from something you didn't intend to do is very suspicious to use for approval.20:28

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