DocScrutinizer05 | never seen this site before https://www.deutschland.de/en/news/coronavirus-in-germany-informations :-o | 00:29 |
---|---|---|
DocScrutinizer05 | >>Here you find the most important news about the spread of the lung disease in Germany.<< | 00:29 |
DocScrutinizer05 | more generic: https://www.deutschland.de/en/corona-virus-germany-overview | 00:31 |
LjL | DocScrutinizer05, it makes a difference between N95 respirators and FFP respirators that just doesn't seem accurate to me | 00:33 |
DocScrutinizer05 | quite possible | 00:33 |
DocScrutinizer05 | where in particular? | 00:34 |
LjL | DocScrutinizer05, https://www.deutschland.de/sites/default/files/inline-images/masks_corona_protection_N95_FFP_infection_protection_1.png | 00:36 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Uruguay: +607 cases (now 12557), +5 deaths (now 114) since a day ago | 00:36 |
LjL | also conflating surgical with "everyday" masks is arguable | 00:37 |
DocScrutinizer05 | complete BS. *sigh* | 00:37 |
LjL | https://www.straitstimes.com/world/europe/britain-says-new-coronavirus-variant-up-to-70-more-transmissible nice dry summary. the WHO hasn't said anything about it yet, has it? | 00:40 |
DocScrutinizer05 | highly disturbing: I can't get this whole site in complete proper german language, WTF?! | 00:45 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +7353 cases (now 502075), +113 deaths (now 14142) since 23 hours ago | 00:50 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: Italy orders Christmas lockdown as Sweden changes tack with toughest measures yet → https://is.gd/bLGhBe | 01:11 |
Brainstorm | Updates for France: +20603 cases (now 2.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +69 deaths (now 10476) since 21 hours ago | 01:22 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Europe is paying less than U.S. for many coronavirus vaccines → https://is.gd/YR8YXl | 01:24 |
LjL | ... except for the really good one | 01:41 |
Brainstorm | Updates for New Zealand: +6 cases (now 2116) since a day ago | 02:36 |
LjL | oh lord | 02:38 |
LjL | %title https://bgr.com/2020/12/19/coronavirus-mutation-south-africa-501-v2/ | 02:38 |
Brainstorm | LjL: From bgr.com: Another coronavirus mutation was discovered – and this one might be more dangerous – BGR | 02:38 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Another coronavirus mutation was discovered – and this one might be more dangerous → https://is.gd/BqiVWT | 02:40 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: COG-UK update on SARS-CoV-2 Spike mutations of special interest (80 votes) | https://www.cogconsortium.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Report-1_COG-UK_19-December-2020_SARS-CoV-2-Mutations.pdf | https://redd.it/kgcffx | 03:06 |
DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: indeed | 03:09 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>worldnews: Europe is paying less than U.S. for many coronavirus vaccines<< so what? | 03:25 |
DocScrutinizer05 | murricans feel pissed? | 03:26 |
LjL | DocScrutinizer05, well as i said... they are paying less for the Moderna vaccine, and getting much more of it, and that happens to be probably the best one, so there is that | 03:26 |
LjL | but no i don't think the general sentiment of those article is feeling pissed, more that their government has been inefficient and kinda lying | 03:27 |
DocScrutinizer05 | well... >>no thanks, COVAX isn't an option for us<< | 03:29 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add links about new UK strain → https://is.gd/Ej6R8r | 03:31 |
DocScrutinizer05 | the "dealmaker POTUS2 seems not as competent in making deals as he thinks to be | 03:32 |
DocScrutinizer05 | s/2/"/ | 03:32 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Anti-vaxxers should forego ventilators, German doctor says (10063 votes) | https://www.dw.com/en/anti-vaxxers-should-forego-ventilators-german-doctor-says/a-55996805 | https://redd.it/kg9lep | 03:42 |
pepee | lol | 03:44 |
gigasu_shida | ljl who is paying less for the moderna one and getting more of it ? | 03:49 |
LjL | the US | 03:49 |
gigasu_shida | oh ok interesting | 03:49 |
gigasu_shida | is that like a bulk discount sort of deal? | 03:50 |
LjL | the EU has only ordered 80 million doses, as opposed to 300 million for several other vaccines (including Pfizer and Oxford) | 03:50 |
LjL | gigasu_shida, probably sort of? | 03:50 |
gigasu_shida | do you prefer the moderna vax at this point? | 03:50 |
LjL | it's probably a good thing that the EU has bought them as one entity instead of each member state doing its own thing | 03:50 |
gigasu_shida | yeah sure, that way they can't compete against each other | 03:51 |
LjL | gigasu_shida, i have preferred it for some time but admittedly i have yet to read the full FDA report / study and compare it with Pfizer | 03:51 |
LjL | they're probably very similar | 03:51 |
gigasu_shida | i guess the molecule that moderna found is more temperature stable(?) | 03:51 |
LjL | yes that may make it preferable from a practical standpoint, although it's still not "fridge temperatures" | 03:51 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I guess this is sort of "you're a US company and I'm your president to rule you" deal | 03:52 |
LjL | which Oxford is, but also the efficacy may be a fair deal lower | 03:52 |
LjL | other than the temperature... the concern about Bell's palsy is there with both Pfizer and Moderna, and we don't know much about allergic reactions yet but i think there are some early reports of anaphylaxis on Moderna as well | 03:53 |
gigasu_shida | bells palsy don't scare me much, one side of my face already drooping haha | 03:53 |
LjL | if it's true about this South African variant being actually more severe and not just spreading more easily, then honestly i may start putting the possible side effects of these mRNA vaccines on a... side | 03:53 |
LjL | gigasu_shida, what about if i tell you that you need to keep the covered eye closed and patched because it won't even get irrigated by tears | 03:54 |
LjL | s/covered/concerned/ | 03:54 |
gigasu_shida | oh god | 03:54 |
LjL | and that some cases of Bell's palsy don't completely resolve | 03:55 |
gigasu_shida | i only read a brief paragraph about Bell's Palsy | 03:55 |
LjL | it's not a joke, it's a pretty serious condition... i means ure there's worse, but it's not nice | 03:55 |
LjL | read the WP article | 03:55 |
gigasu_shida | ok | 03:56 |
LjL | or don't, i mean, if that'll scare you away from getting the vaccine, it probably shouldn't | 03:57 |
LjL | but it's something to monitor and i'm a bit perplexed that the papers brush it off as most likely within the general population incidence. it doesn't seem like it is to me. | 03:57 |
gigasu_shida | oh my gosh i hadn't heard about the south african mutant | 03:58 |
LjL | it's early to say much | 03:59 |
LjL | just keep an eye on it | 04:00 |
gigasu_shida | yes | 04:01 |
LjL | de-facto, i've had a look at dental implant, their duration over 10-20 years is not so great :\ but still, i'm pretty sure i'll have to get one, i don't even close my mouth right without this tooth | 04:09 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Postcards from Wuhan: One year on, residents share lockdown memories, hopes for 2021 → https://is.gd/xhtlG1 | 04:14 |
gigasu_shida | ljl it might be a while without a tooth. the dental surgeon might recommend that you let the metal post grow some bone around it for quite a while before they install the fake tooth onto the post | 04:22 |
Brainstorm | Updates for South Korea: +1095 cases (now 49665), +15 deaths (now 674) since 23 hours ago — France: +17074 cases (now 2.5 million), +200 deaths (now 60429) since 20 hours ago — Netherlands: +12164 cases (now 678888), +61 deaths (now 10489) since 20 hours ago | 04:22 |
LjL | gigasu_shida, yes, i know. plus i have to wait two-three months without even the metal post, he said i have to let the bone heal | 04:23 |
LjL | quite a bother. i don't know they they didn't put a crown on my tooth when it was in bad shape, and instead insisted with inlays... it ended up just breaking apart | 04:23 |
gigasu_shida | hmm your surgeon may not be talented enough | 04:24 |
gigasu_shida | i didn't hear about that possibility before | 04:24 |
gigasu_shida | the part about needing to let the bone heal for a while without the post | 04:24 |
gigasu_shida | hmm maybe i am misinformed tho | 04:25 |
gigasu_shida | i only talked to the surgeon when my mom was there | 04:25 |
gigasu_shida | i think that what your surgeon said could make sense. they might need to put some bone powder in the cavity to regrow bone prior to adding the post | 04:26 |
gigasu_shida | that kinda makes sense | 04:26 |
gigasu_shida | (based on what i've read on the subject) | 04:26 |
gigasu_shida | i've just heard of some surgeons that insist they can get all this done very quickly | 04:27 |
gigasu_shida | it could be mumbo jumbo tho | 04:27 |
LjL | there are "immediate load" implants | 04:28 |
LjL | but for a single, big, important tooth like this, i suspect they should opt for a delayed load implant | 04:29 |
LjL | but i'm not a dentist so really i can only ask them questions about the risks/benefits but in the end i must trust them i guess | 04:29 |
LjL | on wednesday i'm getting my stiches removed so i can take that opportunity to ask some questions about the implant | 04:30 |
gigasu_shida | do dentists do this kind of work in your country? hmm usually this is done by dental surgeons here | 04:31 |
gigasu_shida | nevermind not important | 04:32 |
gigasu_shida | there probably isn't such a distinction in each country | 04:32 |
LjL | no i just say dentist but i do believe it's going to be a surgeon | 04:32 |
LjL | the way it used to work in italy was that all dentists had to be medical doctors before specializing in dentistry | 04:33 |
LjL | so technically they were all surgeons | 04:33 |
LjL | but it's not like that anymore, and the younger dentists i've had more recently aren't MDs | 04:33 |
LjL | so the practice has a separate surgeon | 04:33 |
gigasu_shida | oh wow that's a high standard | 04:34 |
gigasu_shida | be glad it isn't like that anymore. there would be a dearth of dentists | 04:35 |
LjL | yes... i hope this is going to mean more specialization, not lower standards | 04:35 |
LjL | so far it has seemed that way. the dentist who did the original root canal on this tooth that i have parted with, he was an "old school" one, and he also talked on the phone while operating on my dental roots | 04:36 |
LjL | i wasn't impressed. at all. and the filling sort of thing he put inside the tooth instead of a proper inlay or crownwas shaky from the start | 04:36 |
LjL | he also nearly dropped a piece of metal into my throat. the younger dentists all use dental dams, and bless them for that, no matter what bin_bash says *cough* | 04:37 |
gigasu_shida | so the jesus talking on the phone while operating hmm | 04:38 |
gigasu_shida | dental dams are nice but the ones that use dams often use those plastic widgets to force your jaws to stay open | 04:39 |
gigasu_shida | that's what i've heard | 04:40 |
gigasu_shida | but they are probably important when doing a root canal | 04:40 |
LjL | gigasu_shida, in my experience they just used the dam, a metal frame to keep the dam extended, and those kinda painful metal holders to keep it around the specific tooth involved | 04:46 |
LjL | those are not very pleasant, but the whole experience is still more pleasant than having to be careful where you put your tongue and having saliva suctioned all the time | 04:46 |
gigasu_shida | ahh ok i've never had a root canal | 04:47 |
LjL | well try to keep it that way | 04:47 |
LjL | they are honestly not very pleasant | 04:47 |
gigasu_shida | and i think i've had a dumbed down version of that type of dam for a normal filling | 04:47 |
LjL | plus, apparently, teeth that had a root canal are nowhere near as sturdy as the ones that still have a nerve (which is not really just a nerve) to keep them getting substanes they need etc | 04:48 |
LjL | a big molar like the one i had extracted wouldn't have broken in two just like that if it had been a "live" tooth | 04:48 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Boris Johnson tightens UK lockdown, citing fast-spreading version of virus → https://is.gd/rySiFh | 04:52 |
gigasu_shida | hmm my pop's tooth broke in two eating a nut like yours did | 04:53 |
Skunny | Cause of COVID | 04:53 |
gigasu_shida | is there some concern that an mRNA vax may not activate the correct subset of naive T cells ? | 04:53 |
LjL | gigasu_shida, i don't know but that sounds like a good question. any vaccine that only produces (or is) the S-protein won't have all the other proteins from the virus... which may be good in case you might get an auto-immune reaction if you start making the full cocktail of antibodies, but may also result in some lack of reactions. but i think if you look at the Pfizer and Moderna studies (i haven't really, but i glanced at them) they cover T cell reactions | 05:15 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Brazil’s Bolsonaro says rush for coronavirus vaccine not justified → https://is.gd/iVKEln | 05:17 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Thailand: +576 cases (now 4907) since a day ago | 05:22 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: South Korea sets record COVID-19 cases as prison reports major outbreak → https://is.gd/pBO6JM | 05:30 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +2721 cases (now 623760), +90 deaths (now 18545) since a day ago | 05:50 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Leaked documents show how China's army of paid internet trolls helped censor the coronavirus. → https://is.gd/rBiAaS | 05:55 |
Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 696: Tear down that SARS-CoV-2 manuscript: TWiV explains that COVID-19 is not harmless for young adults, FAA approval for Pfizer mRNA vaccine, lack of justification for the claim of reverse transcription of SARS-CoV-2 RNA and integration into the human genome, and lack of evidence for increased transmission by new [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/CXlSLK | 06:07 |
de-facto[m] | %title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.08.280818v1 | 06:21 |
Brainstorm | de-facto[m]: From www.biorxiv.org: A prefusion SARS-CoV-2 spike RNA vaccine is highly immunogenic and prevents lung infection in non-human primates | bioRxiv | 06:21 |
de-facto[m] | gigasu_shida: read it with attention to TH1 vs TH2 cells responses | 06:23 |
gigasu_shida | de-facto[m]: i think i need to study the immune system for a while | 06:32 |
de-facto[m] | %title https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.09.20245175v1 | 06:33 |
Brainstorm | de-facto[m]: From www.medrxiv.org: BNT162b2 induces SARS-CoV-2-neutralising antibodies and T cells in humans | medRxiv | 06:33 |
de-facto[m] | also TH1 vs TH2 | 06:33 |
gigasu_shida | are TH1s and TH2s part of the naive T cell population? | 06:37 |
de-facto[m] | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_helper_cell | 06:40 |
de-facto[m] | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_helper_cell#Th1/Th2_model | 06:41 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Ontario, Canada: +2569 cases (now 157749), +29 deaths (now 4141) since a day ago — Germany: +21679 cases (now 1.5 million) since a day ago — Newfoundland and Labrador, Canada: +8 cases (now 380) since a day ago | 07:07 |
DocScrutinizer05 | de-facto: immune system dang intricate | 07:10 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Concern among Muslims over halal status of COVID-19 vaccine → https://is.gd/nfrid1 | 07:10 |
Brainstorm | New preprint: Fast and scalable lipid nanoparticle formulation of niclosamide (nano NCM) effectively inhibits SARS-CoV-2 replication in vitro by Guankui Wang et al, published on 2020-12-19 at https://biorxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.12.18.423509 [... want %more?] | 07:11 |
de-facto | RKI Germany 2020-12-20: Weekly Incidence 192.2, Infections +22771 (1494009 total), Fatalities +409 (26049 total), COVID@ICU +4948 (incl 2615 on ventilator) | 07:29 |
DocScrutinizer05 | niclosamide hmmmmm | 07:30 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>Niclosamide (NCM) is an old anthelminthic drug<< ummm | 07:33 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada's confirmed COVID-19 cases surpass 500,000 → https://is.gd/j3d3rE | 07:35 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>with pleiotropic pharmacological activities<< errr https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pleiotropy | 07:36 |
DocScrutinizer05 | "geek" way to name off label use? | 07:36 |
de-facto | %title https://www.uniontherapeutics.com/covid-19 | 07:37 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.uniontherapeutics.com: UNION Therapeutics - Covid-19 | 07:37 |
de-facto | %title https://aac.asm.org/content/64/7/e00819-20 | 07:39 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From aac.asm.org: Identification of Antiviral Drug Candidates against SARS-CoV-2 from FDA-Approved Drugs | Antimicrobial Agents and Chemotherapy | 07:39 |
de-facto | %title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.24.310490v2 | 07:40 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: Broad-Spectrum, Patient-Adaptable Inhaled Niclosamide-Lysozyme Particles are Efficacious Against Coronaviruses in Lethal Murine Infection Models | bioRxiv | 07:40 |
de-facto | %title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.18.423509v1 | 07:40 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: Fast and scalable lipid nanoparticle formulation of niclosamide (nano NCM) effectively inhibits SARS-CoV-2 replication in vitro | bioRxiv | 07:40 |
de-facto | %title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/ebiom/article/PIIS2352-3964(20)30291-7/fulltext | 07:41 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Spatial and temporal dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 in COVID-19 patients: A systematic review and meta-analysis - EBioMedicine | 07:41 |
DocScrutinizer05 | interesting | 07:50 |
DocScrutinizer05 | btw I fixed some glitches in comments of my chart at http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/covid19_statistics.htm | 07:52 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Moscow Oblast, Russia: +1514 cases (now 136644), +33 deaths (now 2678) since 23 hours ago — Overijssel, Netherlands: +1398 cases (now 43219), +1 deaths (now 593) since 23 hours ago — Drenthe, Netherlands: +328 cases (now 10615), +1 deaths (now 121) since 23 hours ago — Samara, Russia: +305 cases (now 27723), +5 deaths (now 534) since 23 hours ago | 07:53 |
DocScrutinizer05 | any news about Carrageen ? | 08:09 |
DocScrutinizer05 | %paper Carrageen | 08:09 |
Brainstorm | DocScrutinizer05: An error occurred while searching. | 08:09 |
DocScrutinizer05 | %papers Carrageen | 08:09 |
Brainstorm | DocScrutinizer05: An error occurred while searching. | 08:09 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: In quarantine, Barack Obama welcomed Malia’s British boyfriend; called him ‘a good kid’ → https://is.gd/SyOugg | 08:13 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Anthony Fauci Vaccinated Santa Claus, He Said On CNN (10171 votes) | https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/clarissajanlim/anthony-fauci-santa-covid-vaccine | https://redd.it/kgh1zp | 08:14 |
DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.biorxiv.org/search/Iota%252Bcarrageenan | 08:16 |
DocScrutinizer05 | wow Brainstorm how did this news make it beyond your regex filters? :-D | 08:17 |
DocScrutinizer05 | aah I see "quarantine" | 08:18 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | December 20, 2020: The WHO pages contain up-to-date and global information. Please refer to our Wiki for additional information. → https://is.gd/2k88c1 | 09:03 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US Congress poised to vote on COVID aid package after Fed compromise → https://is.gd/Ljvkhn | 09:15 |
Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: UK response vs South Korean response - personal experience of someone truly shocked by what I have seen → https://is.gd/EFlKvh | 10:06 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: India: Men have 30% higher risk of dying from COVID-19 than women: Study → https://is.gd/H09RnX | 10:31 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Face masks for preventing respiratory infections in the community: A systematic review (80 votes) | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.16.20248316v1 | https://redd.it/kggqvi | 12:19 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Gibraltar: +33 cases (now 1244) since a day ago | 12:21 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>The reported effect of masks used outside the home on transmission of droplet-mediated respiratory infections in the population is minimal or non-existent<< | 12:50 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Is Leah Remini right about Tom Cruise? She Says Tom Cruise’s ‘Psychotic Rant’ About COVID Was a Publicity Stunt. What do you guys think? → https://is.gd/SqcNwM | 13:13 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Preliminary genomic characterisation of an emergent SARS-CoV-2 lineage in the UK defined by a novel set of spike mutations (80 votes) | https://virological.org/t/preliminary-genomic-characterisation-of-an-emergent-sars-cov-2-lineage-in-the-uk-defined-by-a-novel-set-of-spike-mutations/563 | https://redd.it/kgcc3j | 13:17 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +36 deaths (now 6618) since 22 hours ago | 13:21 |
de-facto | "outside the home" is so imprecise that almost any statement following that inherits that property: outside the home in the forest? maybe in the desert? what about on windy oceans? they should have stated "outside of densely crowded environment and outdoors" then their statement would make sense: 0*x = 0 because there is no pathogen to filter by masks there | 13:32 |
de-facto | i mean if they really are serious: medical workers usually dont work at home, hence do they imply that they are not protected by wearing FFP3/3 masks during their work on COVID stations? | 13:33 |
DocScrutinizer05 | yep | 13:36 |
DocScrutinizer05 | poor paper | 13:37 |
de-facto | its on preprint | 13:38 |
DocScrutinizer05 | if they had said "outdoors"... | 13:39 |
de-facto | still people could spit at each others outdoors too | 13:39 |
de-facto | like when shouting in demonstrations for example | 13:40 |
DocScrutinizer05 | in this case I'm hesitant to give them benefit of doubt | 13:40 |
de-facto | or just standing together and drinking hot mulled wine and talking to each others on Christmas markets etc | 13:41 |
de-facto | imho in such scenarios even outdoors it would make sense to wear masks | 13:41 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I had baught it when they said that ballistic droplets are two magnitudes lower risk than aerosol | 13:41 |
de-facto | just as the RKI states, "everywhere where distancing is not possible (hence indoors AND outdoors) or where aerosol could accumulate (hence indoors)" | 13:42 |
DocScrutinizer05 | but this stuff smells biased | 13:42 |
de-facto | yeah indeed | 13:42 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Calgary doctor says ‘dramatic’ 40% drop in preterm births during lockdown is global trend → https://is.gd/A3VT2H | 13:51 |
Brainstorm | Updates for US: +189347 cases (now 18.1 million) since 23 hours ago | 13:53 |
euod[m] | well the UK is fucked. | 14:09 |
euod[m] | they announced stage 5 restrictions for London, so of course everybody got up and left for somewhere without restrictions. | 14:09 |
euod[m] | shocking, unbelievable, unthinkable that would happen. | 14:09 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 'Worst moment of whole epidemic': Britain says new virus strain up to 70 per cent more transmissible → https://is.gd/UGQVFK | 14:31 |
euod[m] | also | 14:39 |
euod[m] | they still haven't closed their schools. | 14:39 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Italy joins other EU states in suspending all travel from UK due to new Covid strain → https://is.gd/gRn6qv | 14:56 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Statement on the U.S. authorization of the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine (80 votes) | https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/news/2020/12/statement-on-the-us-authorization-of-the-moderna-covid-19-vaccine.html | https://redd.it/kgqbzz | 15:18 |
DocScrutinizer05 | euod[m]: :-S | 15:32 |
euod[m] | I unfortunately had to meet someone in person yesterday at a distance and of course they "forgot" their mask. | 15:34 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +266 deaths (now 26430) since a day ago | 15:35 |
euod[m] | I'm standing there with a 3M 95 mask like what the fuck is wrong with you. | 15:35 |
euod[m] | it's been a year, that's not an excuse. | 15:37 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: But for the pandemic, the royal family would have celebrated Christmas this way → https://is.gd/66NrrH | 15:46 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Hackers leak documents revealing China's coronavirus censorship → https://is.gd/pzANwj | 16:37 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +6149 cases (now 503910), +109 deaths (now 14179) since 22 hours ago | 17:07 |
Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +35928 cases (now 2.0 million), +326 deaths (now 67401) since a day ago — Italy: +15102 cases (now 2.0 million), +352 deaths (now 68799) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +13032 cases (now 689705) since 23 hours ago | 17:21 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Countries across Europe halt flights from Britain over concerns about coronavirus mutation → https://is.gd/UQeJLB | 17:28 |
de-facto | so everyone leaving London means the new more transmissible mutant is seeded everywhere in UK now? | 17:29 |
Ollie[m] | With the added amplification of public transport, probably | 17:30 |
LjL | de-facto: are they leaving London, though? Aiui it was placed on tier 4 which means no movement, but not sure if advance notice was given | 17:31 |
de-facto | i dont have any idea, just read what euod[m] said | 17:31 |
Ollie[m] | We've cancelled our plans and are staying in London, but do feel like a minority | 17:31 |
Ollie[m] | Were due to leave on Tuesday to go to Wales, now staying put | 17:32 |
Ollie[m] | Can't say if this is normal or exceptional though yet | 17:32 |
de-facto | hopefully people think before they consider traveling | 17:32 |
euod[m] | de-facto: I'm just going by talking to my friends in the UK, who told me that their immediate response was to pack bags and go to wherever they could that wasn't in maximum lockdown. all the trains are fully booked instantly of course. | 17:33 |
de-facto | i also will stay at home this holiday season, no family visits this year | 17:33 |
de-facto | damn :/ | 17:33 |
de-facto | thats quite the exact opposite of the intention behind restricting contagion by lockdown | 17:33 |
Ollie[m] | I think you're more likely to hear about rule flouting than rule following | 17:34 |
euod[m] | the prevailing thought seems to be "the government lied about not canceling christmas", but come the fuck on. it's not like they can predict the outcome of a pandemic. | 17:34 |
euod[m] | but I bought all the food for christmas dinner I can't let it go to waste! | 17:34 |
Ollie[m] | Honestly doubt this'll really do shit now. We should have extended lock down through December to make Christmas as guilt free as possible | 17:35 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Arizona, US: +5366 cases (now 453597), +34 deaths (now 7971) since 22 hours ago | 17:35 |
euod[m] | I don't understand why people keep taking personal issue with this, as if the enemy is their government and not you know, the pandemic itself. | 17:35 |
de-facto | that is THE point, people have to understand that this only can be controlled by working together against contagion, including government and protesters we need solidarity and cohesion | 17:36 |
Ollie[m] | Hard to get that from incoherent messaging and MPs themselves showing the rules don't apply. Done a good job of eroding trust | 17:38 |
de-facto | yeah but that does not matter, that matters to contagion is that people do it better than bad examples | 17:38 |
de-facto | also people should not be tempted to search for leaks in the rules to evade them but rather extrapolate the meaning and intention to fix such leaks | 17:39 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: Ireland set to impose travel restrictions on flights and ferries from UK → https://is.gd/SdQhHO | 17:53 |
euod[m] | "leaks" is an interesting way of defining it. | 17:59 |
euod[m] | people in my area keep coming up with things that they can announce are "technically legal", but miss the spirit of restrictions entirely. | 18:00 |
euod[m] | yes you are literally 2 meters apart, but that's not the spirit of it. | 18:02 |
IndoAnon | de-facto: you're mistaking "solidarity" for common sense™ | 18:07 |
IndoAnon | Should people be healthy because solidarity? no. | 18:08 |
IndoAnon | People should try not to contract this virus because being infected sucks; for yourself, your family, your local clinic/hospital, your government. I don't blame people who kept doing something that's directly on the opposite of their interest because they're fucked in the head(e.g retards)... | 18:12 |
IndoAnon | Although it's hard to proof, cases where people knowingly spread transmissible disease/virus should be treated as a crime, as it endanger public health | 18:15 |
IndoAnon | Are euro too poor to afford car or motorcycle? I kept hearing "train is full" | 18:17 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: England faces lengthy lockdown as new virus strain 'out of control': Britain's health minister warned Sunday that a strict lockdown imposed on London and southeast England may last for months because a new strain of the coronavirus was "out of control". → https://is.gd/rDonbx | 18:18 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Britain says new virus strain 'out of control': British Health Secretary Matt Hancock said Sunday that the government has imposed a strict Christmas lockdown in London and southeast England because a new strain of the coronavirus was "out of control". → https://is.gd/pv0AWQ | 18:31 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: German factory races to churn out COVID-19 syringes: The battle against COVID-19 has delivered not just a vaccine at record speed but also a spike in demand for the billions of syringes needed to administer it. → https://is.gd/piirr6 | 18:43 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: NERVTAG meeting on SARS-CoV-2 variant under investigation VUI-202012/01 (80 votes) | https://khub.net/documents/135939561/338928724/SARS-CoV-2+variant+under+investigation%2C+meeting+minutes.pdf/962e866b-161f-2fd5-1030-32b6ab467896?t=1608470511452 | https://redd.it/kgvng7 | 18:55 |
Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLA SALUTE - ORDINANZA 20 dicembre 2020: Ulteriori misure urgenti in materia di contenimento e gestionedell'emergenza epidemiologica da COVID-19. (20A07122) → https://is.gd/bt6M1i | 18:56 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: 'This is deadly serious' - New coronavirus variant 'out of control', health secretary warns (10377 votes) | https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-in-tier-4-everybody-needs-to-behave-as-if-they-already-have-coronavirus-matt-hancock-says-12168124 | https://redd.it/kgstau | 19:07 |
DocScrutinizer05 | from german TV ZDF: BioNTech tested BNT162b2 effective against 19 mutation strains | 19:09 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Singapore gets shot in the arm from global drug demand: Scientists in protective clothing work in a high-tech laboratory at a pharmaceutical plant in Singapore, whose coronavirus-hit economy has received a shot in the arm from robust global drug demand. → https://is.gd/5ZrFSH | 19:21 |
LjL | https://np.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/kgstau/this_is_deadly_serious_new_coronavirus_variant/ggi3lx1/?context=3 anyone want to provide "backup"? | 19:25 |
de-facto | IndoAnon, indeed | 19:25 |
de-facto | DocScrutinizer05, interesting, do you have sources for details? | 19:26 |
de-facto | LjL, even if new strains are not more deadly/severe for individual cases if they are "only" more transmissible they will cause more deaths because they spread faster | 19:28 |
de-facto | e.g. reach more people in the same amount of time | 19:29 |
LjL | de-facto, it's not really about the new strain, he's saying that i don't have "backup" for the fact that cytokine storms and other immune reactions are causing many of the severe cases and deaths despite treatment. i'm basically saying, sure, we have dexamethasone but it's not a miracle. but he believes these drugs will save most of the "young and healthy" (as if older people didn't matter, as usual, but well, that was the original framing in the previous | 19:30 |
LjL | post so i can't argue that) | 19:30 |
LjL | i mean sure, i did not provide "backup". i'd have to sift through countless preprints to find a few that, when put together, will show that many deaths are due to immune reactions | 19:31 |
LjL | he isn't providing any backup for the contrary claim either, but hey, of course it's only up to me | 19:31 |
LjL | (aside from personal anecdoted) | 19:31 |
de-facto | i think there are plenty of papers about DEX lowering mortality but not like a "miracle" but only like 20% or such? | 19:32 |
de-facto | so if it can prevent 1 in 5 deaths its good but not like a gamechanger | 19:32 |
de-facto | just link him to the original DEX study results or such | 19:32 |
LjL | he didn't mention dex, i mentioned it. he'd just say "well there are other drugs" :\ | 19:33 |
LjL | it doesn't matter, it was just in case someone had, like, just read a paper titled "Mortality and severity of disease in relation with immune system reactions and cytokine storms" or something | 19:34 |
DocScrutinizer05 | de-facto: sorry, only Heute ZDF, wasn't able to find any internet news about it by cursory googling | 19:35 |
de-facto | LjL, https://www.recoverytrial.net/results/dexamethasone-results | 19:37 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >><de-facto> e.g. reach more people in the same amount of time<< aka R_eff 1.0 -> R_eff 1.4 without any further changes | 19:38 |
de-facto | yeah looking at your graph there, plateau then back to growth with the avg line | 19:38 |
de-facto | so probably we have it circulating too already here in Germany | 19:39 |
LjL | de-facto, https://np.reddit.com/r/Coronavirus/comments/kgstau/this_is_deadly_serious_new_coronavirus_variant/ggi5pr7/ i found another topical paper in the meanwhile, but i included your link too | 19:41 |
DocScrutinizer05 | de-facto: I doubt our current rising curve is caused by a new strain. I think it's just the fine line berween "the local shutdowns may nail it to R_eff=1" and the tiny bit more from autumn turning into winter now, that makes those measures _just_ not sufficient | 19:43 |
de-facto | what do you mean by tiny bit more from autum ? | 19:44 |
de-facto | its not like that more cold in the latest times compared to directly before or such | 19:44 |
DocScrutinizer05 | from autumn->winter aka "it's getting cold outside" | 19:44 |
LjL | still if this mutation was around in the UK since september, as it appears from what i've read, there's been ample opportunity for it to have started spreading in other countries. how sequencing-happy is Germany= | 19:44 |
de-facto | not so much | 19:45 |
de-facto | i wish they would do more sequencing here in Germany | 19:45 |
DocScrutinizer05 | we'll know in a few days. I bet the sequencers are steaming | 19:45 |
de-facto | idk why they dont do that | 19:45 |
genera | we shall have our own strain, no? | 19:45 |
de-facto | a similar faster spreading variant also is circulating in SouthAfrica https://sacoronavirus.co.za/2020/12/18/new-covid-19-variant-identified-in-sa/ | 19:46 |
de-facto | %title | 19:46 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From sacoronavirus.co.za: New COVID-19 variant identified in SA - SA Corona Virus Online Portal | 19:46 |
LjL | de-facto, last night i read a claim that this one was also more dangerous | 19:46 |
DocScrutinizer05 | s/also/just/ | 19:47 |
de-facto | %title https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1340359989395861506 | 19:47 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From twitter.com: error parsing title ('NoneType' object has no attribute 'string') | 19:47 |
de-facto | meh | 19:47 |
de-facto | @firefoxx66 (Dr Emma Hodcroft): Is the new UK variant the same as the new South African variant (501Y.V2)? No. They both share the same mutation in spike: N501Y (N->Y at position 501). However, the 2 variants have arisen separately. 1/N https://t.co/m4sx1YN7dO https://t.co/N1Zmyso4mh | 19:47 |
de-facto | https://nextstrain.org/groups/neherlab/ncov/S.N501 | 19:47 |
de-facto | LjL, yeah they differ in many more mutations than only that N501Y | 19:48 |
de-facto | both seem to spread faster | 19:49 |
LjL | this is what i read https://bgr.com/2020/12/19/coronavirus-mutation-south-africa-501-v2/ | 19:49 |
de-facto | the text from SA reads more alarming though i dont like that | 19:49 |
de-facto | " D614G left China and infected most of the world, returning to Asia a few months later." <-- whut? | 19:50 |
de-facto | "Since then, other strains have been discovered, including a couple of new coronavirus versions that are spreading rapidly in the UK and South Africa." <-- whut?? | 19:51 |
de-facto | "Now, it appears as though the latter might be more dangerous of the two." <-- ok so they directly compare UK with SA mutants | 19:52 |
de-facto | https://github.com/emmahodcroft/cluster_scripts#sn501 | 19:53 |
LjL | i've put a caveat in that post | 19:55 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add (slightly sensationalistic) news about South African variant → https://is.gd/6RD9PK | 19:56 |
de-facto | according to Emma Hodcroft one of the differences between the S:N501Y variants is that SA is without 69/70 deletion | 19:59 |
de-facto | LjL, i think https://sacoronavirus.co.za/2020/12/18/new-covid-19-variant-identified-in-sa/ is the more official link for this | 20:00 |
DocScrutinizer05 | one confirmed brit-corona in netherlands | 20:04 |
de-facto | hmm maylinked from http://www.health.gov.za/ | 20:05 |
LjL | de-facto, well that's the first i linked | 20:05 |
LjL | i linked the other too saying that it's just a media analysis | 20:05 |
de-facto | LjL, oh sorry I must be blind | 20:05 |
de-facto | i did drink too much coffee :P | 20:06 |
de-facto | %title https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/threat-assessment-brief-rapid-increase-sars-cov-2-variant-united-kingdom | 20:07 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.ecdc.europa.eu: Threat Assessment Brief: Rapid increase of a SARS-CoV-2 variant with multiple spike protein mutations observed in the United Kingdom | 20:07 |
LjL | just now i heard on public TV that a passenger coming from the UK to Italy has been found positive and sequenced and he has the mutation | 20:07 |
de-facto | %title https://virological.org/t/preliminary-genomic-characterisation-of-an-emergent-sars-cov-2-lineage-in-the-uk-defined-by-a-novel-set-of-spike-mutations/563 | 20:10 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From virological.org: Preliminary genomic characterisation of an emergent SARS-CoV-2 lineage in the UK defined by a novel set of spike mutations - nCoV-2019 Genomic Epidemiology - Virological | 20:10 |
de-facto | yeah i dont think it can be contained, it does not even work with the normal strains | 20:10 |
de-facto | and people are stupid.... | 20:10 |
de-facto | ....and travel, allow airplanes to fly etc | 20:11 |
DocScrutinizer05 | do you have any info about false positive tests due to vaccination? Has this been evaluated? | 20:12 |
de-facto | so yeah, even one year after the fact when we know how efficient SARS-CoV-2 spreads via traveling it seems we have not learned anything from it and still have the same stupid behavior | 20:12 |
de-facto | i dont think the virus could possibly spread over the oceans without travelers | 20:12 |
de-facto | DocScrutinizer05, antigen? | 20:13 |
DocScrutinizer05 | all | 20:13 |
DocScrutinizer05 | which tests will get rendered useless by vaccination? | 20:13 |
de-facto | how could a RT-PCR with N-protein primer get positive from vaccination? | 20:14 |
DocScrutinizer05 | exactly my question | 20:14 |
de-facto | i doubt it would | 20:14 |
de-facto | if its an RT-PCR with S-protein primer it might though | 20:14 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I would like to read a study about it | 20:14 |
LjL | antibody tests will be rendered useless if either 1) they look only at the S-protein 2) the vaccine involved is not an S-protein vaccine but a whole-virus vaccine (inactivated or attenuated) | 20:14 |
de-facto | oh good point | 20:15 |
de-facto | the inactivated vaccines of course | 20:15 |
LjL | for now i believe none of those vaccines are "in the wild", but they will be | 20:15 |
de-facto | but yeah injecting them in a muscle, i doubt that many of those would reach into a nose swab or such | 20:17 |
LjL | i don't know about PCR in the nose... but antibody tests are done in the blood | 20:17 |
de-facto | yeah antibody tests would show the success | 20:18 |
de-facto | but antigen or pcr tests in the nose or lung? | 20:18 |
LjL | still, a point may be made that before vaccinating someone, you'd want to run an antibody test on them to know if they had COVID before. since long COVID exists, i think it would be a problem if we no longer can distinguish between people who had COVID and people who were simply vaccinated against it | 20:19 |
de-facto | depending on the vaccine, e.g. BioNTech aiming for estimating asymptomatic infections by testing for N-protein antibodies | 20:20 |
de-facto | Probably not possible for SinoVac/SinoPharm inactivated pathogen since it could raise those too id suspect | 20:21 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I just started wondering when I heard Israel is going the ***** way once more and handing out greed ID for vaccinated people, to allow only those on certain events etc. Trying hard to not enter political domain here, anyway the dialog >>you're positive!<< >>nah, I'm vaccinated, just forgot my green card<< popped up in my mind | 20:21 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add "Mutations of interest" GitHub by Emma Hodcroft → https://is.gd/WEC2fI | 20:22 |
whytek | greed ID, nice slip.. .:) | 20:22 |
de-facto | i really would like to know how injecting a vaccine into the arm could make a RT-PCR swab on the nose go positive | 20:22 |
de-facto | i doubt that this would happen even for the inactivated vaccines | 20:22 |
de-facto | but maybe i am wrong | 20:22 |
de-facto | DocScrutinizer05, where do you take that assumption from that vaccination would trigger false positive tests? | 20:23 |
DocScrutinizer05 | didn't know I assumed anything. I asked if anybody has seen papers on ot | 20:23 |
de-facto | ah | 20:23 |
de-facto | DocScrutinizer05, for example they tested in the OX/AZ phase III study in the UK branch COV002 each week with RT-PCR for asymptomatic infections | 20:25 |
de-facto | and have found less in the vaccinated arm | 20:25 |
LjL | that's a good point | 20:25 |
de-facto | but that one also only targets S-protein | 20:25 |
LjL | but i suspec their PCR was also on the S-protein | 20:25 |
DocScrutinizer05 | ((phase III study)) excellent point | 20:25 |
LjL | i don't *know*, though | 20:25 |
LjL | i think the only possible issue (if at all) would be taking a PCR a very short amount of time after giving the vaccine, or perhaps a very exact amount of time, if there happens to be a point where it may reach the nose and throat somehow | 20:26 |
LjL | i don't think it will be a practical concern. antibody tests could be. | 20:26 |
DocScrutinizer05 | ack | 20:27 |
de-facto | btw this seems to be quite an interesting forum there https://virological.org/c/novel-2019-coronavirus/ | 20:33 |
de-facto | %title | 20:33 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From virological.org: SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus - Virological | 20:33 |
de-facto | they also link cool new tools like | 20:35 |
de-facto | %title https://covidcg.org/ | 20:35 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From covidcg.org: COVID CG | 20:35 |
de-facto | %title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.09.23.310565v2 | 20:35 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: COVID-19 CG: Tracking SARS-CoV-2 mutations by locations and dates of interest | bioRxiv | 20:35 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +6045 cases (now 506287), +87 deaths (now 14215) since 23 hours ago | 20:38 |
de-facto | %wa population canada | 20:40 |
Brainstorm | de-facto, Wolfram|Alpha (Canada | population): Result: 37.4 million people (world rank: 39th) (2019 estimate) → https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=population+canada | 20:40 |
de-facto | so here is the map of sequencing coverage per capita https://covidcg.org/?tab=global_sequencing | 20:45 |
de-facto | UK does 100x more sequencing than Germany per capita | 20:45 |
de-facto | hence they do find such things like the new mutant | 20:45 |
de-facto | SA does 1/20 of sequencing compared to UK | 20:46 |
de-facto | we need more sequencing in Europe | 20:47 |
LjL | de-facto, that sure doesn't make Italy or Germany look good | 20:49 |
LjL | how come the UK is such a huge outlier in Europe? | 20:49 |
LjL | other countries that sequence very much are countries with very few cases too | 20:49 |
de-facto | Australia does even 10x of UK | 20:50 |
de-facto | thats three orders of magnitude more than Germany or such | 20:50 |
de-facto | idk why they dont sequence more, imho its important for understanding the pandemic in detail, this (hopefully) is a once in a century chance to study such things in that level of detail | 20:51 |
de-facto | and for sure they do have the technology to do so | 20:53 |
LjL | de-facto, but Australia and New Zealand and Vietnam and other countries like that have few cases | 20:54 |
de-facto | i have seen sequencers standing around in many labs here | 20:54 |
LjL | so the few they have... they can sequence | 20:54 |
LjL | but the UK has a ton of cases, and still sequences much much more then the EU | 20:54 |
de-facto | yeah | 20:54 |
LjL | de-facto, do you approve of the new section? https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/blob/master/README.md#genetics | 21:03 |
de-facto | oh very nice one | 21:05 |
de-facto | i guess if you want to be fair unfortunately there would have to be quite some more mutation sections to counterbalance D614G | 21:06 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add COVIDCG → https://is.gd/Y4RjE0 | 21:06 |
de-facto | like time will tell how prevalent those 501 variants will become | 21:06 |
de-facto | i like the start from E. HodCroft about listing mutations of interest with associated properties, but id like to have such a collection for even more of the mutants | 21:07 |
de-facto | e.g. that the 69/70 deletion seems to be correlated with antibody evasion etc | 21:08 |
de-facto | something like a wiki of SARS-CoV-2 mutations or such | 21:09 |
LjL | meanwhile i found: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VUI_%E2%80%93_202012/01 | 21:10 |
LjL | heh https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.10.087643v3 | 21:12 |
de-facto | maybe scraping an rss feed from this for covid news? | 21:18 |
de-facto | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:Current_events | 21:18 |
LjL | de-facto, i've tried before, it's tricky. also a good place to get a sneak peak of potentially important news is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:In_the_news/Candidates of course there's lots of cruft (and stuff unrelated to COVID, obviously) but it usually takes a while before important news end up in the actual news section, while here you can often find events very soon after they happen | 21:20 |
Brainstorm | New from Wikipedia on VUI-202012/01: Peterloo Massacre: Corrected information ← Previous revision Revision as of 20:21, 20 December 2020 Line 26: Line 26: After the end of the [[Napoleonic Wars]] in 1815 there was an acute economic slump, accompanied by chronic [[unemployment]] and harvest failure, and exacerbated by the [[Corn Laws]], which kept the [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/wm4wQC | 21:22 |
de-facto | why is airplane travel even allowed at all still? | 21:42 |
de-facto | i dont get it | 21:42 |
de-facto | is it again some stupid reasoning like "we cant let them go bankrupt"? | 21:42 |
de-facto | we have seen what comes out of that in the summer with tourism in EU | 21:43 |
de-facto | how about making passenger travel via airplane completely illegal during pandemic times | 21:44 |
de-facto | i hear that transport costs for logistics tripled or even more, so why not make them transform all of their planes into logistic transport planes | 21:45 |
de-facto | imho traveling should not be allowed at all, globally | 21:45 |
de-facto | i dont see any reason to allow this that would even remotely counterbalance the astronomical costs we are having right now | 21:46 |
de-facto | and they did not even implement proper quarantine | 21:47 |
de-facto | all they require is some single negative test, that is beyond ridiculous because it can not replace quarantine at all | 21:47 |
Brainstorm | New from Wikipedia on VUI-202012/01: Dani Osvaldo: The wording suggested he is a sole-nationality Italian who just happened to be born in Argentina, then lived in Italy. No siree. ← Previous revision Revision as of 20:35, 20 December 2020 Line 36: Line 36: }} }} − '''Pablo Daniel Osvaldo''' (born 12 January 1986), commonly known as '''''' [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/cxxGT8 | 21:47 |
LjL | i saw this video as a bit of a criticism of myself (how dare he) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVPy25wQ07k | 21:51 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Adults over 75, frontline essential workers should be in second Covid-19 vaccine priority group, says CDC advisory panel: An expert panel that advises the CDC recommended Sunday that adults aged 75 and older, as well as frontline essential workers, be designated as the second Covid-19 vaccine priority group. → https://is.gd/G2rvaw | 22:00 |
Brainstorm | New from Emma Hodcroft: @firefoxx66: Honoured to have been 'tweet quoted' as part of this very informative article about the new UK variant - what we know and why scientists are concerned.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 → https://is.gd/aHCGcm | 22:13 |
benakautzer[m] | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aov3qGYv7ls | 22:19 |
benakautzer[m] | * Corona Impfung Langzeitfolgen | 22:19 |
benakautzer[m] | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aov3qGYv7ls | 22:19 |
Brainstorm | New from Wikipedia on VUI-202012/01: Alexandra Daddario: Career: remove unnecessary additional image (that is not related to the section in which it appears; copyedit ← Previous revision Revision as of 21:13, 20 December 2020 Line 22: Line 22: ==Early life== ==Early life== − [[File: Eva Rinaldi Photography (1) (34571221352).jpg|thumb|left|Daddario [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/w82ZfW | 22:25 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>making passenger travel via airplane completely illegal<< will get rejected by all big 500 companies, reporters, politicians themselves, younameit. For weird reasons some people think they _must_ travel overseas etc, and they have the power/lobby to make anybody honestly suggesting such ban boggle and cringe | 22:33 |
DocScrutinizer05 | lufthansa already converted as many airplanes as possible into freight planes. There are real life limitations to that | 22:35 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +20 deaths (now 6622) since 23 hours ago | 22:38 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add GISAID → https://is.gd/SzoOFz | 22:38 |
DocScrutinizer05 | when you had a single flight in your life with cabin luggage and see them stashing parcels into seats of a 747, you both see they do what they can and you get an idea where this "what they can" ends | 22:39 |
de-facto | why seats? they should remove them and make them cargo planes | 22:52 |
de-facto | if they go bankrupt its only because they failed to adapt, just like selection for the survival of the fittest | 22:53 |
DocScrutinizer05 | waaaah, vaccination with a 0.6x45 needle | 22:54 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>they should remove them and make them cargo planes<< they did where possible, as I said above | 22:54 |
DocScrutinizer05 | then they went on and used passenger jets for freigt. When it was _not_ that simple to convert them to freight planes | 22:55 |
gigasu_shida | shouldn't we still allow flights for medical travel? | 22:56 |
gigasu_shida | for a lot of ppl there are bigger concerns than covid | 22:56 |
DocScrutinizer05 | you can't just throw a 60m^3 unsorted parcels on a heap in the passenger zone with seats removed, through a 90cm wide door | 22:57 |
DocScrutinizer05 | or even 3 or 4 of them | 22:57 |
de-facto | what medical tourism? | 22:58 |
gigasu_shida | i think we should instead focus on cutting government employee salaries and redirecting that money toward small businesses during a pandemic emergency | 22:58 |
de-facto | would it not be more beneficial for the local area to use the necessity for medical treatment to build up such capabilities locally? | 22:59 |
gigasu_shida | de-facto that's a difficult conversation in the US haha | 22:59 |
gigasu_shida | easier to have that conversation in europe | 23:00 |
gigasu_shida | anyways i didn't wanna get you riled up | 23:00 |
gigasu_shida | gonna go eat some ramen | 23:00 |
de-facto | afaik for such things like medical care one should not rely on few single points of failure but rather have widespread redundancy also in supply chains | 23:01 |
de-facto | sorry im a bit in a grumpy mood today, nothing to do with people in here | 23:01 |
DocScrutinizer05 | ((freight planes)) there are a few smart people in airline management too who also said >>we should convert a lot of passenger planes into freight!<< then they went even a tad smarter still and *asked* >>how many planes were already converted, could we convert more and what does it take to do so?<< | 23:02 |
DocScrutinizer05 | thne, surprisingly, they _did_ | 23:04 |
LjL | de-facto, a lot of things you say could be true ideally, but it's the real world | 23:14 |
LjL | people who are dying of serious disease that don't have widespread treatment facilities cannot wait until those are built | 23:14 |
LjL | and they are certainly not being built *now*, no matter how much you wish it | 23:14 |
LjL | and indeed it's not like airlines like leaving their airplanes unused. that's *very* bad for their economy, so if they are not doing certain things that would make them money, it's most likely because they are trickier than they seem | 23:15 |
LjL | whenever they can, airlines only have to gain by keeping their aircraft and pilots "up to date", as long as it's not a huge economic burden | 23:16 |
Brainstorm | New from NPR: Older People, Some Essential Workers To Get Vaccines Next, CDC Panel Says: A federal advisory committee voted to put adults 75 and over and frontline essential workers next in line for COVID-19 vaccines. → https://is.gd/3b642d | 23:16 |
LjL | as to banning all travel, the considerations that are true for air travels are mostly also true for shorter-haul types of travel: trains make less money when they can't be fully packed, and people in trains can spread disease (just look at all the fleeing London now), but where do we stop? how much travel is too much travel? for a fair amount of the past few months, i wasn't even allowed to "travel" on foot outside of my home unless it was a "necessity". | 23:18 |
LjL | but then we extend that to necessary *jobs*. can we do without them? what are the ones we can do without? what happens to those people if they won't work? it's really not all black and white | 23:18 |
LjL | and meanwhile, <Brainstorm> New from Brexit @ The Guardian: France's Covid freight ban to have 'devastating effect' on UK, sector warns: Cargo from the UK to France to be suspended for 48 hours from 11pm GMT on Sunday due to emergence of fast-spreading virus → https://is.gd/KCPiFQ | 23:19 |
de-facto | i just get angry when i see we still have so much air traveling going on that the new mutant already spread to Netherlands, Belgium and Denmark | 23:19 |
de-facto | we have the highest incidence ever in EU and still traveling is allowed, obviously with not enough safety measures in place to prevent viral spread | 23:19 |
LjL | the mutant is out of the bag. *well* out of the bag. if it was around in September, and the UK sequences so much more, then the mutant is almost certainly already everywhere | 23:19 |
LjL | direct your anger at the fact it was not identified... i mean, it *was* identified, but at the fact it was not all done much quicker | 23:20 |
de-facto | why does it seem that its unthinkable to require mandatory quarantine of 14 days for any airplane traveling if it absolutely is unavoidable? | 23:20 |
LjL | because the cases when it's unavoidable also tend to be "emergency" cases when a delay of 14 days for the people on the plane to do whatever they need to do would make what they need to do pointless? | 23:21 |
LjL | boo, covidvax.news appears to be dead :( | 23:21 |
de-facto | well if they cant afford 14 days quarantine for what they want to do then its not important enough to travel for | 23:22 |
LjL | that makes no sense | 23:23 |
LjL | just imagine the standard example case | 23:23 |
LjL | it's a skilled doctor travelling to save a patient with a rare disease that other doctors aren't qualified to treat | 23:23 |
LjL | oh now he has to wait 14 days, but no problem! | 23:24 |
LjL | the patient will wait | 23:24 |
LjL | there are obviously less clear-cut cases | 23:24 |
LjL | but the point is, there are cases | 23:24 |
de-facto | well if its so important than everyone has to quarantine 14 days with him inclusive that patient | 23:24 |
de-facto | if they want to risk that, its their decision, but it should not place the risk onto the population of the destination there | 23:25 |
LjL | okay then let's also stop all freight, because that means people going back and forth anyway, and cargo could be contaminated | 23:25 |
LjL | so no more agricultural exports please | 23:25 |
LjL | every country for itself | 23:25 |
LjL | heck, every town for itself! | 23:25 |
LjL | if you can't grow what you need in your town then starve | 23:26 |
de-facto | well cargo travel could me made safe more easily than human travel | 23:26 |
whytek | de-facto, and LjL - you're kind of making comparisons that are a bit wild. For sure casual, amsterdam weekend getaway flights are highly questionable, as they maybe always have been, but like all of it, the problem is not about what should be changed, but maybe about sudden changes. | 23:26 |
benakautzer[m] | In my case it would matter, quarantine costs 1000 bucks a day, same price as work, so it'll be paid by the customer that it travel too. I am fine with quarantine, I get a hotel with room service and 8h/7days paid to sit it out. Already happend. | 23:27 |
whytek | sudden changes.... to systems that are highly established and not so highly analyised of understood | 23:27 |
whytek | *or | 23:27 |
de-facto | i mean traveling obviously is the way the virus spreads, we have seen many examples of that, and even traveling between regions of same probability of infection with the virus spreads and mixes all of its unknown nasty mutations | 23:29 |
benakautzer[m] | * In my case it wouldn't matter, quarantine costs 1000 bucks a day, same price as work, so it'll be paid by the customer that it travel too. I am fine with quarantine, I get a hotel with room service and 8h/7days paid to sit it out. Already happend. | 23:29 |
de-facto | if the new UK variant was not known it would just spread incognito in all of Europe until we would all wonder why case numbers explode simultaneously everywhere | 23:30 |
de-facto | btw does that sound familiar? | 23:30 |
LjL | it has already spread | 23:30 |
de-facto | yes. | 23:30 |
LjL | it has been around since september | 23:30 |
de-facto | mobility is much too high both on short distance and long distance | 23:31 |
de-facto | and it is not necessary at all to have so much mobility, there are alternatives for most scenarios | 23:32 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Threat Assessment Brief: Rapid increase of a SARS-CoV-2 variant with multiple spike protein mutations observed in the United Kingdom (83 votes) | https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/threat-assessment-brief-rapid-increase-sars-cov-2-variant-united-kingdom | https://redd.it/kh03lx | 23:33 |
de-facto | now for Christmas everyone wants to travel to visit their family, its absolutely nonsensical and downright should be illegal in my opinion | 23:33 |
de-facto | then i read things like government allows traveling from UK until midnight. LOL so the flights probably are overbooked by then | 23:37 |
de-facto | why does the government not make 14 days quarantine absolutely mandatory? no exceptions at all | 23:37 |
de-facto | that would have impact, quickly letting everyone through is beyond stupid | 23:38 |
de-facto | potentially having to quarantine is the least price to demand from those still thinking traveling is no problem in times of a pandemic | 23:39 |
de-facto | hey maybe they can let them sign a statement that they guarantee not to be infected with the new mutant variant? problem solved.... NOT. | 23:41 |
Brainstorm | New from Wikipedia on VUI-202012/01: User:Cleo2110/sandbox/Silent Night - A Song for the World: Timtrent moved page to Draft:Silent Night - A Song for the World Preferred location for AfC submissions New page {{Userspace draft|source=ArticleWizard|date=December 2020}} == '''Silent Night - A Song for the World''' == Silent Night - A Song for the World [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/OxikxW | 23:42 |
Brainstorm | LjL: Do as you wish! | 23:43 |
de-facto | looool | 23:47 |
de-facto | Brainstorm is alive... | 23:47 |
de-facto | and got quite a scary sense of humor, Silent Night - A Song for the World while we are talking about new mutations emerging | 23:48 |
DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: you know the color option of grep? ;-D highlight the matching part of a string | 23:59 |
LjL | yes, i use it often | 23:59 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!