| LjL | 🎄🌠🎅 meanwhile, Have a Decent Christmas Central Europe (et al) 🎄🌠🎅 | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| darsie | I think(!) heart disease or cancer here means you should have that level if you have heart disease or cancer. | 00:00 |
| darsie | Don't put any weight on that thought. | 00:00 |
| darsie | I have no clue. | 00:00 |
| gigasu_shida | i didn't realize this but meals are still served even on short flights in the US, so ppl take off their masks | 00:00 |
| gigasu_shida | kinda scary ljl | 00:01 |
| LjL | gigasu_shida, well for that matter a national flight in the US had a positively sick with COVID passenger on board, who died during the flight, infecting the person who gave him CPR (and perhaps others, that's the one i know about), and he knew it full well and so did his wife, but they simply had to lie on the form as there is no verification of any sort | 00:02 |
| LjL | the good news about airplanes is that the cabin's entire air gets changed every 2-3 minutes | 00:02 |
| gigasu_shida | geez didn't hear about that | 00:02 |
| LjL | i hear firework | 00:02 |
| gigasu_shida | i would actually want all the blowers turned on | 00:03 |
| gigasu_shida | because it would probably force the virus to have to stay longer in the air before settling on something | 00:03 |
| LjL | why would you want the virus to stay in the air O.o | 00:04 |
| LjL | don't get the wrong impression that masks make it somehow impossible for the virus to get breathed by you | 00:04 |
| LjL | masks most likely help, but that's a different claim | 00:04 |
| gigasu_shida | because it would be more likely to land on any surface rather than more likely to land on lung tissue (?) | 00:05 |
| LjL | if the virus settles on something, well, that may be an issue, if you touch that something and then you touch your mouth, nose or eyes (you can't do the former if you are wearing a mask, right?) but anyway there's much less evidence of transmission through fomites than there is via aerosol (or droplets, whatever) | 00:06 |
| LjL | gigasu_shida, the virus doesn't infect you by landing on lung tissue | 00:06 |
| LjL | it infects your nose or throat, possibly eyes | 00:07 |
| LjL | it goes into the lungs later, if at all | 00:07 |
| LjL | (it's possible that mild or asymptomatic cases don't get lung involvement, at least some of them, but it's unknown since there's also some with demonstrated x-rays anomalies to the lung... anyway, the main point being, it usually infects your upper airways first) | 00:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Boats, planes, helicopters: Canada gears up to vaccinate remote indigenous communities → https://is.gd/qjI1EX | 00:08 |
| gigasu_shida | oh interesting ljl i didn't know that | 00:09 |
| LjL | gigasu_shida, that's why they put a swab in your nose and throat, and only if they have inconclusive results they use the longer probe that goes into your lungs | 00:10 |
| gigasu_shida | i see | 00:10 |
| LjL | gigasu_shida, that was a joke, there is no lung probe | 00:11 |
| LjL | i thought i would scare you but "i see" works too | 00:11 |
| gigasu_shida | hah. i thought they swabbed the nose because after the virus multiplies it reaches all tissue | 00:12 |
| LjL | nope, it might not be in blood, for one thing | 00:12 |
| LjL | i think being in blood is associated with uh-oh outcomes | 00:12 |
| gigasu_shida | if you had said proboscis it would have scared me lol | 00:12 |
| LjL | well i had a stomach endoscopy once where they were supposed to put me asleep but that kinda didn't work | 00:13 |
| gigasu_shida | so that's interesting. you can be infected by the virus and it doesn't reach the blood serum | 00:13 |
| LjL | gigasu_shida, afaik... it's studies i recall from a while ago and my memory isn't great, as a disclaimer | 00:14 |
| gigasu_shida | are you one of those rare ppl that are somewhat insensitive to anesthesia drugs? | 00:14 |
| LjL | gigasu_shida, probably not, although i never had surgery so i can't be sure - but they don't use actual anesthesia for those things, they sedate you with a shot of benzodiazepines and/or opiates (in my case, both) | 00:14 |
| LjL | i think the thing is that i kinda already use benzodiazepines ;( | 00:15 |
| LjL | so when i got the shot i felt just a vague sense of my vision "zooming out" for a moment | 00:15 |
| LjL | but then i continued to be fully awake and aware | 00:15 |
| LjL | benzodiazepines cause amnesia so the idea is that even if you aren't fully asleep, you won't remember the unpleasantness | 00:16 |
| LjL | but apparently my memory is only terrible for the things i *want* to remember :\ | 00:16 |
| gigasu_shida | oh yeah, i was just studying that. ppl can largely different doses of drugs if they are already using them and tolerating their effects | 00:16 |
| gigasu_shida | ppl can need* | 00:16 |
| LjL | well, no one asked me | 00:16 |
| LjL | or if they did, they didn't care | 00:16 |
| LjL | i don't remember if they asked me :P | 00:16 |
| LjL | it wasn't a place that looked GREAT with people who seemed GREAT, to be fair | 00:17 |
| gigasu_shida | was getting stomach-probed a bad experience ? | 00:17 |
| LjL | after i was done and sitting down "recovering" (actually fully aware), they were saying bad things about this (asleep) woman with burqa and her husband who brought her there | 00:17 |
| LjL | at some point i was like ok, i think you shouldn't say this and this | 00:17 |
| LjL | but i bit my tongue and mostly managed not to have an actual argument... maybe i should get more opiates at other times too? :P | 00:18 |
| gigasu_shida | lol | 00:18 |
| LjL | gigasu_shida, yes it was quite utterly unpleasant | 00:18 |
| LjL | wouldn't recommend | 00:18 |
| LjL | but if you have to do it, it's not exactly traumatizing for life, either. just... bad. | 00:18 |
| gigasu_shida | was it mainly the probe riding the wall of your throat that was annoying? | 00:19 |
| LjL | plus chances are you'd actually be put to sleep! | 00:19 |
| LjL | yes | 00:19 |
| LjL | the gag reflex | 00:19 |
| gigasu_shida | yeah that's what i figured | 00:19 |
| LjL | and also, it's probably minor, but i had a sample taken | 00:19 |
| LjL | just a very tiny sample of the stomach lining | 00:19 |
| LjL | there are like tiny pliers at the end of the probe | 00:20 |
| gigasu_shida | they can't biopsy you from the torso? | 00:20 |
| gigasu_shida | like just stick a needle in your torso? | 00:20 |
| LjL | don't think so, not without pretty major surgery-like stuff anyway | 00:20 |
| LjL | sticking a needle that goes past your stomach lining would be problematic | 00:20 |
| gigasu_shida | intersting. a lot of organs can be biopsied that way | 00:20 |
| LjL | anyway if you're already having an endoscopy, that's just the easiest way | 00:20 |
| gigasu_shida | yeah i wouldn't want my stomach lining messed with as it's pretty thick | 00:21 |
| gigasu_shida | there's a reason it's pretty thick | 00:21 |
| LjL | and it's not painful or anything buuuuut you *feel* it | 00:21 |
| LjL | it feels like a very very light pinch. except, inside of your stomach. | 00:21 |
| LjL | the gag reflex from the probe is worse, but that part is just a little cringey | 00:22 |
| gigasu_shida | i figured you wouldn't feel much | 00:22 |
| gigasu_shida | i was wrong | 00:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Colombia: +14940 cases (now 1.6 million), +280 deaths (now 41454) since a day ago — Netherlands: +11310 cases (now 732570) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +31 deaths (now 7098) since 9 hours ago | 00:22 |
| LjL | gigasu_shida, you don't feel much. it's like a *light* pinch as i said, nothing major, no actual pain. but the sensation of something pinching the inside of your stomach is... well, you may be the type of person who's just like "why's that an issue? it wasn't painful at all", or you may be the type who goes a bit "eeeek" | 00:24 |
| gigasu_shida | i'm surprised you take benzodiazepine | 00:25 |
| gigasu_shida | does that have any long term negative effects? | 00:25 |
| gigasu_shida | nevermind | 00:31 |
| gigasu_shida | memory effects =/ | 00:32 |
| LjL | gigasu_shida, yes plus they become less effective over time, you can have withdrawal when you stop taking them, which in turn means you can become addicted | 00:34 |
| LjL | basically all the bad things of illegal drugs without many of the good things, except that they're legal (as long as prescribed) | 00:34 |
| gigasu_shida | try to wean yourself off those man | 00:34 |
| LjL | why are you surprised? do i somehow emanate the impression of a calm, relaxed and balanced person? because that would be, uhm, inaccurate | 00:34 |
| LjL | de-facto, i'm not imagining it right, the thing where SARS-COV-2 is not found in the blood of many people and is usually a marker of a severe case? | 00:38 |
| LjL | i really wish we could just sloppily call the virus COVID because SARS-CoV-2 is extremely uncomfortable to type | 00:38 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Of cause you cant be addicted by legal drugs ;) | 00:43 |
| gigasu_shida | i'm not surprised actually, a lot of ppl take drugs these days | 00:44 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Its nearly impossible to name one actually. | 00:45 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: 'It's So Much Worse Than Before.' Dread And Despair Haunt Nurses Inside LA's ICUs (10026 votes) | https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/12/24/945027680/its-so-much-worse-than-before-dread-and-despair-haunt-nurses-inside-las-icus | https://redd.it/kjf49a | 01:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Panama: +3413 cases (now 223674), +51 deaths (now 3715) since 17 hours ago — Lebanon: +2708 cases (now 165933), +20 deaths (now 1353) since a day ago — Uruguay: +747 cases (now 15457), +7 deaths (now 135) since 23 hours ago — Cuba: +217 cases (now 10717) since a day ago | 01:12 |
| Haley[m] | %cases france | 01:30 |
| Brainstorm | Haley[m]: In France, there have been 2.5 million confirmed cases (3.8% of the population) and 62268 deaths (2.5% of cases) as of an hour ago. 32.4 million tests were performed (7.8% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=France for time series data. | 01:30 |
| de-facto | ✧☆★ Fröhliche Weihnachten ★☆✧ | 01:44 |
| LjL | auch dir! | 01:46 |
| de-facto | Danke :) | 01:46 |
| de-facto | Cheers :)) | 01:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Note that covidvax.news is currently unavailable → https://is.gd/DnvzG4 | 01:48 |
| gigasu_shida | LjL: the EMT that gave CPR to that guy on the airplane who had covid (and died) has since "developed a cough and other COVID-19 symptoms, but he tested negative on Tuesday". what the hell is up with these tests. this guy HAS to be positive | 02:04 |
| LjL | gigasu_shida, hmm, still, i'd expect someone in that situation, with news attention on them, to get tested more than once if a false negative is suspected | 02:06 |
| gigasu_shida | yeah he should get tested several times over the course of 2-3 days | 02:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Barbados: +16 cases (now 345) since a day ago | 02:08 |
| de-facto | "tested" also depends on the test, remember Elon Musk nagging about his antigen-quicktests alternating between positive and negative, so its always a question of time and thresholds for sensitivity (for false negatives) and specificity (false positives) | 02:09 |
| LjL | de-facto, but we're talking about a flight attendant who gave CPR to someone who died | 02:18 |
| de-facto | btw they have found the UK mutated variant of SARS-CoV-2 in one person in Germany too already | 02:18 |
| LjL | i would assume proper PCR testing | 02:18 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.dw.com/en/new-covid-variant-reaches-germany-from-uk/a-56054140 | 02:18 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.dw.com: New COVID variant reaches Germany from UK | News | DW | 24.12.2020 | 02:18 |
| LjL | yeah | 02:18 |
| LjL | but it was someone coming back from the UK, right? | 02:18 |
| de-facto | yeah i think so | 02:18 |
| LjL | in italy they already found a couple of people with no known connection to the UK :\ | 02:18 |
| LjL | but that's probably the tip of the iceberg | 02:19 |
| de-facto | "The woman, who flew to Germany to visit relatives, was picked up from the airport by relatives and has isolated at the family's home in Baden-Wuerttemberg since then, the state's health ministry said." | 02:19 |
| de-facto | isolation at family's home, what could possibly go wrong with that? | 02:19 |
| LjL | countries that have kept their numbers low have actual quarantine facilities, generally | 02:19 |
| LjL | i'm not sure that's a coincidence | 02:20 |
| de-facto | indeed | 02:20 |
| de-facto | they should have booked her a luxurious hotel room for quarantine | 02:20 |
| de-facto | and make sure she stays in htere | 02:20 |
| de-facto | but oh well, as you say its probably just the tip of the iceberg | 02:21 |
| de-facto | also i am sure noone else from that flight was quarantines when tested negative | 02:22 |
| de-facto | and tests always would come up negative directly after infection... so hmm. | 02:22 |
| de-facto | they stick to the protocol like robots | 02:23 |
| de-facto | imho they should make quarantine 14 days mandatory after flights, no matter what the test results say | 02:25 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: U.K. variant puts spotlight on immunocompromised patients’ role in the COVID-19 pandemic (86 votes) | https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/12/uk-variant-puts-spotlight-immunocompromised-patients-role-covid-19-pandemic | https://redd.it/kjllam | 02:25 |
| de-facto | supermutant factories? | 02:26 |
| de-facto | maybe if slow immune response in immunocompromised patients give SARS-CoV-2 enough time to bruteforce evading mutants this would be similar to a slow vaccination campaign in a population allowing the pathogen to spread in a half vaccinated population hence get used to deal with the immunity by the antibodies? | 02:30 |
| de-facto | hopefully not... | 02:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +6877 cases (now 536008), +121 deaths (now 14724) since 22 hours ago | 02:33 |
| de-facto | ideally we would have a synchronized ultra-hard lockdown worldwide while accumulating vaccine doses then only after incidence went down to very low levels vaccinate everyone in record time to give the virus no time for bruteforcing escape mutants | 02:34 |
| de-facto | unfortunately unrealistic, obviously we do the exact opposite, start very slowly with vaccination in high prevalence regions to maximize the probability of the pathogen to encounter vaccinated immunity as often as possible and also spread vaccinations slowly over long time to ensure it got enough tires to infect vaccinated | 02:36 |
| de-facto | *enough tries to infect vaccinated | 02:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Germans spread Christmas charity despite coronavirus: Germany has experienced second wave of COVID-19 with Christmas approaching, but it doesn’t seem to be diminishing people’s willingness to donate to charity. In 2020 private donations set to reach record levels. → https://is.gd/qKICmx | 02:37 |
| LjL | de-facto, they should also sequence MUCH more, i don't think it's fair to have penalized the UK so much when in all likelihood, they were just the only one *testing* for mutations, and so, unsurprisingly, finding them | 02:38 |
| LjL | maybe next time they won't even share what they find, if that results in freight blockage for two days | 02:39 |
| de-facto | yes thats a very good point, i think the same | 02:41 |
| de-facto | e.g. 1% of testing capacity for representative random sampling and idk 0.1% randomly sampled from positives to do full sequences from and publish them on regular basis to a worldwide collection to track mutations | 02:43 |
| de-facto | like mandatory for every country buying the RT-PCR and sequencing equipment | 02:44 |
| LjL | de-facto, 0.1% is already more or less what we do i think (well, a bit more), wasn't it like 0.4 out of 1000 for italy? but for the UK, it was 55? | 02:48 |
| LjL | or was that out of 10k | 02:48 |
| de-facto | another idea: when the virus infects susceptible with naive immune system (hence no antibodies) there is no selection for initial replication in the upper respiratory tract (e.g. by highly specific IgG antibodies) so during the initial time of viral shedding it would do so without selecting for evading mutants, only with longer time when antibodies are raised such selection would happen but by then such carriers are not considered | 02:51 |
| de-facto | infectious to their direct proximity anymore | 02:51 |
| de-facto | now that would change as soon as a significant part of a population carries such highly specific igG antibodies because then selection for excape mutants would begin directly in the upper respiratory tract already | 02:52 |
| de-facto | hence i think it is to be expected that with time we will see more and more evading mutants occurring (because of raising prevalence of immunity either by recovery or by vaccinations) | 02:53 |
| de-facto | does not even have to be black and white, maybe someone only got low immunity and maybe a variant only got partial evading capabilities | 02:54 |
| de-facto | also with fading immunity from the first wave reinfection probability raises, hence allowing the pathogen to replicate and select in a partial immune carrier | 02:58 |
| de-facto | so thats another contribution then | 02:59 |
| LjL | de-facto, i had a discussion about this earlier today with someone else... i'm not sure i understand the dynamics | 03:00 |
| LjL | de-facto, https://paste.ee/p/3CZIL | 03:01 |
| de-facto | yeah mutations occur randomly and such variants would infect susceptible the selection would only come from preexisting immunity. but what if bruteforcing could happen in the same host (both virus mutating and antibodies present at same time) like for those immunocompromised individuals or recovered from first wave with fading immunity? then selection for those random mutations would be much much more effective | 03:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Korea: +1237 cases (now 54770), +17 deaths (now 773) since 22 hours ago — Burkina Faso: +292 cases (now 5941) since a day ago — Netherlands: +11261 cases (now 735118), +93 deaths (now 10848) since 22 hours ago | 03:10 |
| de-facto | or vaccination slowly happening in a population with high infection incidence like the wild type could infect partially immune individuals | 03:11 |
| LjL | de-facto, well, one of the hypotheses for the many hitherto-unseen mutations in the UK variant i think was that it occurred in one immunocompromised individual who had a long infection | 03:12 |
| de-facto | yeah exactly | 03:12 |
| de-facto | it would make sense, the virus and partial (non neutralizing) immunity present in the same host allowing each virus mutation to try to evade that partial immunity | 03:13 |
| de-facto | that mechanism on a cellular level would allow for many more "tries" than for a randomly occurring mutation from a immuno-naive infected carrier being transmitted to someone with immunity that only neutralizes previous variants, hence selects such an escape mutant | 03:15 |
| LjL | but what about the vaccine? i'm really not sure if an otherwise neutral mutation is more likely to persist when the bulk of the population is vaccinated if it's a vaccine-evading mutation, compared to when there is no vaccine around. as someone_else said, if the variant does arise, it will probably stick around whether or not a vaccine does | 03:16 |
| LjL | unless you give the vaccine to an immunocompromised individual i guess, then the process you describe could take place... only with a vaccine-evading mutation :\ | 03:17 |
| de-facto | a vaccine evading mutation probably would have changed the S-protein significant enough that antibodies could not neutralize it, if that also means the price for that would be less efficient binding to ACE2 hence a replication disadvantage in a fully naive population in race with the previous wild type without that mutation? | 03:19 |
| LjL | i didn't even have enough limoncello as my usual daily ration :( | 03:19 |
| LjL | de-facto, right, that's what i said: if you have a *neutral* (in other ways) vaccine-evading mutation, then it may arise whether or not the vaccine is around; but if to evade the vaccine, it has to suffer some other selective disadvantage, then it will only stay around if most people are vaccinated | 03:20 |
| LjL | but then also what do you think about what could happen if you gave the vaccine to an immunocompromised individual (which will probably happen)? | 03:21 |
| LjL | i think their body may give the virus just enough pressure to mutate to evade the vaccine, since it may not kill it off immediately | 03:21 |
| de-facto | but that happens anyhow already? like when there is IgG and virus around at the same time | 03:22 |
| de-facto | e.g. someone with not enough B-cells or such | 03:23 |
| LjL | yes but that could make it evade random antibodies but not necessarily the vaccine | 03:23 |
| LjL | just like with these UK and SA variants... they "think" they "probably" won't impact the vaccine | 03:23 |
| LjL | they still have to check, because there are changes in the S protein after all | 03:23 |
| de-facto | not sure if it matters if those few B-cells learned how to make their antibodies from the virus or from the vaccine when the virus is allowed to stay alive long enough in their body to bruteforce against those IgG antibodies with mutating replications | 03:24 |
| de-facto | yes those 69/70 deletions in the S-protein sequence of the RNA for example | 03:25 |
| de-facto | i just think we should do everything to minimize the "surface area" between virus and IgG immunity both in space and time to minimize its chance to bruteforce evading mutants | 03:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: coronavirus outbreak: Germany reports first case of coronavirus variant spreading in Britain → https://is.gd/JvbDYe | 03:28 |
| LjL | i still think that, as crazy as it sounds, the only way to produce a "vaccine" at the required scale to adapt to the changes in the virus is to make an infectious vaccine... i.e. a virus, ideally one with no severe effects, but which generates immunity | 03:28 |
| LjL | otherwise, we'll keep having new evading mutations, and sure it will take 6 weeks to develop an mRNA vaccine to address them, but then it's more like 6 *years* to give it to 8 billion people | 03:29 |
| LjL | last time i said this ryouma went mad at me, but, since i managed to make him leave together with tinwhiskers, i guess i can say it again :\ | 03:30 |
| de-facto[m] | Hmm yeah attenuated wild type, stesl something essential from it to help it go very weak yet raise immunity against its evil brother, but would that evolve the same way then ? | 03:36 |
| de-facto[m] | Im gonna have to call it a night i barely can keep my eyes open | 03:38 |
| LjL | de-facto[m], night | 03:59 |
| kara[m] | just heard about the new strain, is it a problem? or is it like the other new strains (where nothing changes really)? | 04:01 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Colorado’s two In-N-Out locations declared COVID-19 outbreaks as 80 employees test positive (10096 votes) | https://www.denverpost.com/2020/12/24/in-n-out-burger-covid-outbreaks-colorado/ | https://redd.it/kjonk4 | 04:14 |
| jimmyjammer | hello | 04:24 |
| kara[m] | a new coronavirus variant is more transmissible not peer reviewed | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what means >>to bruteforce against those IgG antibodies<< ? | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | kara[m]: yes, many indications that is an alleged "70%" more transmissible | 04:45 |
| kara[m] | thxs | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: I don't get the concept of your "vaccination virus pandemic". Seems like the recent sars-cov2 took about a year do get to <<5% of population. How would you want to speed that up, even if you were able to develop a virus that is same selectivity on cells and same immune response but without any of the severe damaging effects? | 05:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | and note the *IF* in there | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | since much of the severe damaging effects _are_ from the immune response | 05:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: East China reports COVID-19 re-infection case → https://is.gd/w8XLJV | 05:32 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +2583 cases (now 634904), +99 deaths (now 19038) since 22 hours ago | 05:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The Moderna Vaccine’s Antibodies May Not Last As Long As We Hoped → https://is.gd/SXdHEn | 05:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Trump golfs in Florida as COVID relief hangs in the balance → https://is.gd/9VP4IW | 06:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: More than 600,000 people in UK get first Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine dose → https://is.gd/A0yjtU | 06:59 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Florida, United States: +13147 cases (now 1.2 million), +121 deaths (now 20995) since 23 hours ago — New York, United States: +12568 cases (now 891270), +152 deaths (now 37028) since 23 hours ago — Rio Grande do Norte, Brazil: +11340 cases (now 539408), +63 deaths (now 11321) since 23 hours ago [... want %more?] | 07:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | *sigh* >>This suggests that in these age groups, the duration of neutralizing antibodies from the Moderna vaccine will be relatively short, potentially less than a year. That is particularly troubling as these are the age groups most affected by severe Covid-19. It may well be that the levels of antibodies after three months, if maintained, are sufficient to protect these age groups, but it is unlikely they will continue to protect if | 08:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | levels fall still further<< | 08:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Leaked Documents Show How China’s Army of Paid Internet Trolls Helped Censor the Coronavirus → https://is.gd/4jbCOR | 08:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | December 25, 2020: The WHO pages contain up-to-date and global information. Please refer to our Wiki for additional information. → https://is.gd/m0gsN0 | 09:02 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | anyone in china: does https://www.propublica.org/article/leaked-documents-show-how-chinas-army-of-paid-internet-trolls-helped-censor-the-coronavirus make it through the great firewall? | 09:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: U.S. Now Requires All U.K. Travelers To Have A Negative Coronavirus Test: The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention issued a new testing mandate for U.K. travelers coming into the U.S. after an outbreak of a new coronavirus variant in England. → https://is.gd/OCHox6 | 09:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: 2020 in climate: As the world took the pandemic heat, global warming only became worse → https://is.gd/W8Ls2e | 09:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Mike Pompeo’s wife tested positive for coronavirus as cases spiked → https://is.gd/l0l3Rh | 10:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: UK's biggest coronavirus testing lab hit by COVID-19 outbreak → https://is.gd/gXFJcY | 12:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Rich countries are hoarding vaccines: 51% of doses reserved by 15% of world's population → https://is.gd/SWEjTG | 12:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: S.Africa rejects claim its Covid variant more dangerous than UK strain: South Africa's health minister has rejected his British counterpart's claim that a new coronavirus variant in the country is more contagious or dangerous than a similar one in spreading the UK. → https://is.gd/ML0zvN | 13:10 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Slovakia: +4046 cases (now 165608) since a day ago | 13:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Morocco orders 65 million vaccine doses: Morocco said Thursday it had ordered 65 million doses of novel coronavirus vaccine, as the North African kingdom prepared to launch a vaccination campaign targeting 25 million people. → https://is.gd/22ih7v | 13:22 |
| de-facto | RKI Germany COVID-19 2020-12-25 (Xmess rep.): Weekly Incidence 188.8/100k, Infections +25533 (1612648 total), Fatalities +412 (29183 total), COVID@ICU 5372 (incl. 2847 on ventilator) | 13:39 |
| de-facto | Weekly Incidence over 500/100k in 7 districts in the federal state of Saxony, 1 district in fed. state Bavaria | 13:42 |
| de-facto | Genetic sequences of SARS-CoV-2 in Germany (Consultation laboratory for coronaviruses) https://civnb.info/sequences/ with sequences at https://civnb.info/germany/?c=city&r=city | 13:47 |
| de-facto | %title | 13:48 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From civnb.info: Konsiliarlabor für Coronaviren | 13:48 |
| de-facto | DocScrutinizer05, ^^ | 13:48 |
| de-facto | interesting, last entry is "EPI_ISL_412912|Europe-Germany-Baden-Wuerttemberg-unknown|2020-02-25" | 14:01 |
| de-facto | pasting the last entry https://paste.gg/p/anonymous/5b3be1d143734ceba4d073cc00834908 into https://corona.bii.a-star.edu.sg/ | 14:05 |
| de-facto | Seems to contain Mutations G71S@NSP5, P323L@NSP12, D614G@S, R203K@N, G204R@N when matching against hCoV-19/Wuhan/WIV04/2019 | 14:08 |
| de-facto | hmm | 14:08 |
| de-facto | maybe its not the UK variant? | 14:11 |
| genera | "2020-02-25" ? | 14:12 |
| de-facto | oh | 14:13 |
| de-facto | lol thanks | 14:13 |
| genera | never trust a sequence that you didnt sequence yourself^^ | 14:13 |
| de-facto | i am not fully awake yet, should have read the date properly | 14:13 |
| de-facto | but i like that they publish the full sequences | 14:14 |
| de-facto | yeah i thought because its the last entry, but its old | 14:16 |
| de-facto | guess we have to wait for it to be published? | 14:16 |
| genera | they maybe switched to another lab? | 14:18 |
| de-facto | where was it detected in Frankfurt and then isolated at home in Stuttgart? | 14:19 |
| de-facto | still Charite should receive such sequences | 14:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Mutated COVID-19 strain confirmed in Japan as nationwide case tally hits record high. → https://is.gd/KE7nCY | 14:36 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/coronavirus-mutation-105.html | 15:15 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.tagesschau.de: Corona-Variante in Großbritannien: Virus-Mutation in Deutschland nachgewiesen | tagesschau.de | 15:15 |
| de-facto | .tr <de Bereits nach ihrer Landung in Frankfurt hatte die Betroffene einen Schnellltest gemacht, der positiv ausfiel. Anfang der Woche folgte ein PCR-Test, ebenfalls mit positivem Befund. | 15:15 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, German to English: After landing in Frankfurt, the person affected had already done a quicklest, which was positive. A PCR test followed at the beginning of the week, also with positive results. (MyMemory) [... want %more?] | 15:15 |
| de-facto | .tr <de Die Abstrichprobe sei an das zuständige Labor der Berliner Charité gesandt worden, hieß es vom Ministerium weiter. | 15:15 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, German to English: The ministry said the swab sample had been sent to the responsible laboratory at the Berlin Charité. (MyMemory, Google) — This *Abstrichprobe be at the responsible laboratory the #jelly donut *Charité sent #will, named it from the ministry on. (Apertium) | 15:15 |
| de-facto | .tr <de Die Untersuchung habe ergeben, dass es sich um die mutierte Corona-Variante B 1.1.7. handele. Die Frau habe bislang aber nur milde Krankheitssymptome entwickelt. | 15:15 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, German to English: The investigation showed that it was the mutated Corona variant B 1.1.7. act. So far, however, the woman has only developed mild symptoms. (MyMemory, Google) — The assay have made, that it #itself around this mutated *Corona-variation *B 1.1.7th act. The woman have up to the present but only mild *Krankheitssymptome evolved. (Apertium) | 15:16 |
| de-facto | So it should be in the Data from Charite and they say its B 1.1.7 aka https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variant_of_Concern_202012/01 | 15:17 |
| de-facto | hopefully its only this one case, as long as she isolates and does not cause a "foundation" cluster it should be contained ... hopefully | 15:19 |
| de-facto | begin of this week, hence the date for the sample should be like 2020-12-{21,22,23,..} | 15:21 |
| de-facto | something like that | 15:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +32349 cases (now 1.6 million) since 23 hours ago | 15:28 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Information for Healthcare Professionals on Pfizer/BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (80 votes) | https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-pfizer-biontech-vaccine-for-covid-19/information-for-healthcare-professionals-on-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine | https://redd.it/kjm1p4 | 15:36 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/coronavirus-variante-who-101.html | 15:46 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.tagesschau.de: Corona-Impfstoff: Biontech erwartet Wirksamkeit bei Mutation | tagesschau.de | 15:46 |
| de-facto | .tr <de "Wir wissen, dass unser Impfstoff das Virus an vielen verschiedenen Stellen attackiert - dementsprechend sind wir zunächst einmal zuversichtlich, dass Immunantworten, die durch unseren Impfstoff bedingt werden, in der Lage sein könnten, auch dieses Virus zu neutralisieren", sagte Biontech-Chef Ugur Sahin im ARD extra. | 15:47 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, German to English: "We know that our vaccine attacks the virus in many different places - accordingly, we are initially confident that immune responses caused by our vaccine could be able to neutralize this virus," said Biontech boss Ugur Sahin on ARD extra. (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 15:47 |
| de-facto | .tr <de Das Virus sei jetzt etwas stärker mutiert, sagte Sahin der Deutschen Presse-Agentur. "Wir müssen das jetzt experimentell testen. Das wird etwa zwei Wochen in Anspruch nehmen. Wir sind aber zuversichtlich, dass der Wirkungsmechanismus dadurch nicht signifikant beeinträchtigt wird." | 15:47 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, German to English: The virus has now mutated a little stronger, said Sahin of the German press agency. "We now have to test it experimentally. It will take about two weeks. We are confident, however, that the mechanism of action will not be significantly impaired." (MyMemory) [... want %more?] | 15:47 |
| de-facto | .tr <de Das Antigen, das das Mainzer Unternehmen und sein US-Partner Pfizer für den Impfstoff nutzen, besteht laut Sahin aus über 1270 Aminosäuren. Davon seien jetzt neun mutiert, also noch nicht einmal ein Prozent. | 15:47 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, German to English: The antigen that the Mainz-based company and its US partner Pfizer use for the vaccine consists of over 1270 amino acids, according to Sahin. Nine of them have now mutated, so not even one percent. (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?] | 15:48 |
| de-facto | .tr <de "Unser Impfstoff sieht das ganze Protein und bewirkt multiple Immunantworten. Dadurch haben wir so viele Andockstellen, dass das Virus schwer entkommen kann. Das bedeutet aber nicht, dass die neue Variante harmlos ist." | 15:48 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, German to English: "Our vaccine sees the whole protein and causes multiple immune responses. This gives us so many docking points that the virus is difficult to escape. But that doesn't mean the new variant is harmless." (MyMemory) [... want %more?] | 15:48 |
| de-facto | .tr <de Der Biontech-Impfstoff auf Basis des Botenmoleküls mRNA könne prinzipiell schnell an neue Varianten angepasst werden. | 15:48 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto, German to English: The Biontech vaccine based on the messenger molecule mRNA can in principle be quickly adapted to new variants. (MyMemory, Google) — This *Biontech-serum at base the *Botenmoleküls *mRNA can always quickly at new variations adjusted will. (Apertium) | 15:48 |
| Jigsy | %cases UK | 15:53 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In United Kingdom, there have been 2.2 million confirmed cases (3.3% of the population) and 69678 deaths (3.2% of cases) as of 8 hours ago. 52.3 million tests were performed (4.2% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 15:53 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.pei.de/EN/newsroom/press-releases/year/2020/27-pei-releases-first-batches-comirnaty-german-european-markets.html;jsessionid=707A990DF5379D859D1A306D7D277EF9.intranet241 | 15:53 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.pei.de: Paul-Ehrlich-Institut - Press Releases - Paul-Ehrlich-Institut Releases First Batches of BioNTech/Pfizer's COVID-19 Vaccine Comirnaty for German and European Markets | 15:53 |
| de-facto | "The Paul-Ehrlich-Institut, Federal Institute for Vaccines and Biomedicines, issued in function as European Official Medicines Control Laboratory (OMCL) EU batch release certificates for three batches of BioNTech/Pfizer's Comirnaty vaccine on 22 December 2020. The three batches contain approximately 4.1 million vaccine doses. Also on 22 December 2020, the Paul-Ehrlich-Institut issued the national batch release of the vaccine for Germany." | 15:54 |
| de-facto | from tageschau link above | 15:56 |
| de-facto | "Germany should get the first delivery on Saturday. 151,125 vaccination doses are expected, announced the Berlin Senate Administration, which is currently chairing the state health ministerial conference." | 15:56 |
| de-facto | "Health Minister Jens Spahn said on Twitter that by the end of this year a total of more than 1.3 million vaccine doses should be delivered to the federal states. Then at least another 670,000 cans would be added every week in January." | 15:56 |
| de-facto | afaik there are as many as 8M citizens among the high priority group hence for them Germany would need at least 16M doses | 15:58 |
| de-facto | so with 1.3M doses that would be like 8% of them, following 0.67M weekly in January hence ~4% of those initial 16M doses each week | 16:00 |
| Jigsy | Heh. | 16:01 |
| Jigsy | Now the UK is considering dropping down to one vaccine per person. | 16:01 |
| de-facto | hence if not ramped up faster around ~22 weeks for those 14.7M = 16M - 1.3M doses with begin of January it would take until 2021-06-04 | 16:03 |
| de-facto | Jigsy, why not seems to protect already very early https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2034577 | 16:04 |
| de-facto | Figure 3 https://www.nejm.org/na101/home/literatum/publisher/mms/journals/content/nejm/0/nejm.ahead-of-print/nejmoa2034577/20201217/images/img_xlarge/nejmoa2034577_f3.jpeg | 16:04 |
| de-facto | "Between the first dose and the second dose, 39 cases in the BNT162b2 group and 82 cases in the placebo group were observed, resulting in a vaccine efficacy of 52% (95% CI, 29.5 to 68.4) during this interval and indicating early protection by the vaccine, starting as soon as 12 days after the first dose." | 16:06 |
| de-facto | of course they should receive a second dose, but protection starts already as early as 12 days after the first dose according to that graph there | 16:08 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +33 deaths (now 7131) since 15 hours ago | 16:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pope Francis to the Rich: Don’t Hoard COVID-19 Vaccines → https://is.gd/BwSd54 | 16:42 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Introduction into the Marseille geographical area of a mild SARS-CoV-2 variant originating from sub-Saharan Africa (80 votes) | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.23.20248758v1 | https://redd.it/kjymrt | 16:49 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +36969 cases (now 2.2 million), +573 deaths (now 69851) since 22 hours ago — Netherlands: +11299 cases (now 743869), +95 deaths (now 10921) since 17 hours ago | 17:32 |
| KREYREN | does anyone by chance knows the incubation temperature for grapthemys pseudographica kohni (Missisippi map turtle)? | 17:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pope Francis in Christmas message calls for COVID-19 vaccines for everyone → https://is.gd/DI51CA | 17:33 |
| blkshp | Oh No :( Good luck! | 17:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Pope slams anti-mask protesters for being stuck in 'their own little world of interests' → https://is.gd/HK9UGY | 17:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Friday 25 December Update: submitted by /u/HippolasCage to r/CoronavirusUK → https://is.gd/xnhQjd | 18:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Coronavirus: Saint Nicholas nursing home visit results in death of 18 residents → https://is.gd/HwIMwE | 19:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: Overworked Japanese nurses quitting as they face discrimination from neighbours over Covid → https://is.gd/cteY68 | 19:39 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Pope slams anti-mask protesters for being stuck in 'their own little world of interests' (10908 votes) | https://www.irishpost.com/news/pope-slams-anti-mask-protesters-opposed-to-covid-restrictions-for-being-stuck-in-their-own-little-world-of-interests-198624 | https://redd.it/kk12je | 19:44 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +246 deaths (now 62361) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +61 deaths (now 7159) since 19 hours ago | 20:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Turkey to require negative COVID-19 test result for travel: Turkey is enacting precautions for international travel, requiring a negative COVID-19 test for passengers to enter the country starting Monday until March. → https://is.gd/9LB7I0 | 20:17 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: NO EVIDENCE THAT 501.V2 VARIANT IS MORE DANGEROUS THAN UK VARIANT (84 votes) | https://www.nicd.ac.za/no-evidence-that-501-v2-variant-is-more-dangerous-than-uk-variant/ | https://redd.it/kk1z5s | 20:20 |
| LjL | OKAY I AM RELIEVED | 20:29 |
| LjL | oh, it's about the South Africa variant not being worse than the UK variant | 20:30 |
| LjL | not about both of them not being worse than the baseline ;( | 20:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +19037 cases (now 2.0 million), +459 deaths (now 71359) since a day ago | 20:38 |
| ubLIX[m] | no evidence on dangerous of thing compared to thing about which there is no evidence on dangerousness? | 20:52 |
| LjL | DocScrutinizer05, yeah maybe you're right, it would be tricky to engineer a virus like that | 20:52 |
| ubLIX[m] | ..and the 2020 Award for Valuable Journalism goes to.. idk, i didn't actually click the link | 20:53 |
| LjL | ubLIX[m], well i disagree that there is no evidence of dangerousness about either of them... i mean, yeah, there is tentative evidence they spread easier, but if that's true, that basically turns into augmented danger (of catching it, and over overloading resources) | 20:53 |
| ubLIX[m] | well, quite | 20:54 |
| LjL | i've seen the Vincent Racaniello video where he maintains there is no evidence, i have seen other such opinions too... but... i think even if at a very strict scientific level there is no *conclusive* evidence, the hints are enough that, politically, it should be treated as more infectious | 20:54 |
| LjL | there are varying levels of evidence... if you see a new variant, and where that new variant is found, you also see a ginormous scary spike... you better treat it as the cause of it, even if you can't prove it from epidemiological data alone | 20:55 |
| LjL | although he has a point when he says that with D614G (which by now was a while ago), stricter infectiousness tests weren't done | 20:55 |
| LjL | why weren't they done? yes, i understand you need a level 3 lab | 20:55 |
| LjL | but even if you deem circumstantial evidence as sufficient for lockdowns, stops to flights, etc... you are kinda still supposed to investigate it further in the meanwhile | 20:56 |
| ubLIX[m] | yes but i suppose the dwelling on dangerousness here is concerned with severity of clinical course rather than infectiousness, even though infectiousness constitutes a danger in itself | 20:56 |
| LjL | and since it's a variant that circulates worldwide, surely there should be *some* level 3 lab available to study it | 20:56 |
| ubLIX[m] | there is no evidence the new variants are not being studied in labs around the world | 20:57 |
| LjL | ubLIX[m], for the new ones, sure, but as i said D614G has been around for a long time now, and considered potentially important, so if they're still busy studying it, it wouldn't hurt if they released a preliminary paper or something | 20:58 |
| LjL | ubLIX[m], i suspect that SA press conference may not even really be thinking about the difference, and they're implicitly saying there is no evidence of *more infectiousness* for the SA variant compared to the UK variant either | 20:58 |
| LjL | "We are also concerned that there is rhetoric developing that the 501.V2 variant is more transmissible than the the UK variant or may potentially cause more serious morbidity and mortality." ← they conflate all those things | 20:58 |
| ubLIX[m] | my mind is trapped right now on the idea that "No evidence.. " someways needs to make it onto a t-shirt emblematic of 2020 | 21:01 |
| LjL | there are shades of gray between "no evidence" and "all possible evidence" | 21:02 |
| LjL | i have a laser printer but i'd have to research how to transfer to t-shirts :P | 21:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: Post-exposure antibody protection trialled → https://is.gd/m16ExA | 21:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | absence of evidence is not evidence of absence | 21:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19 will be 'with us for the next 10 years', warns vaccine chief → https://is.gd/b8On8W | 22:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Saudi crown prince gets his first dose of COVID-19 vaccine → https://is.gd/df9mYp | 22:45 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Africa: +14796 cases (now 983359), +293 deaths (now 26276) since 23 hours ago | 22:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: In Christmas message curbed by COVID, pope calls on nations to share vaccines → https://is.gd/UXLj1W | 23:22 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!
