| LjL | perhaps because for now they have some (if not enough) Pfizer but not really any AZ yet. i don't really know. like i said it's hearsay anyway (namely: my dad read it somewhere), so take it with a grain of salt, maybe it's not even true | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LjL | i'll just say i don't find it beyond belief that the UK would do something incredibly stupid... i'll leave it at that | 00:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from Virological.org: Mutations arising in SARS-CoV-2 spike on sustained human-to-human transmission and human-to-animal passage: Robert F. Garry1,2 1Department of Microbiology and Immunology, Tulane University Medical Center, 1430 Tulane Avenue, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112 USA; E-Mail: rfgarry@tulane.edu 2Zalgen Labs, LLC, Germantown, MD, USA [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/0mPluB | 00:19 |
| de-facto | experimenting on humans with unproven vaccination schemes in unethical imho. they should stick *absolutely* strictly to the schemes for which their vaccines have been approved. | 00:43 |
| de-facto | why would they even consider such a thing? | 00:43 |
| de-facto | their first priority should be to force incidence down absolutely strictly. their second priority should be to scale up production of vaccines somehow. then go with the tested protocol by evidence based science. | 00:47 |
| de-facto | UK did so well in terms of scientific approaches, why would they throw it now all overboard and begin with wildly experimenting? this all would be beyond crazy. they MUST adhere to the proven schemes, also NOT omit the second shot in exactly the correct time. there wont be enough vaccines for everyone, so they should give second shots the absolute highest priority ensuring all of them can be given in time. omit first shots if necessary. | 00:50 |
| LjL | de-facto, well apparently they are already more-than-considering giving the booster shot later, even in the case of Pfizer, where that wasn't tested... | 00:53 |
| LjL | admittedly that's a far cry from mixing vaccines, but it's still not what the protocol did | 00:53 |
| de-facto | why on earth would they do that? i mean why having any trials at all and approving vaccines if later they just would go ahead and improvise about everything? | 00:54 |
| de-facto | i cant believe they really would do that, i think UK got good scientists that would not allow for that | 00:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Larry King has been hospitalized with Covid-19 → https://is.gd/hGmsad | 00:56 |
| de-facto | just imagine they would loose trust of the public and finally when vaccines would be available for everyone noone wants them anymore? | 00:56 |
| de-facto | that would be catastrophic, hence they should do everything to ensure its safe, and the best thing imho is to stick to the statistically proven shemes | 00:56 |
| de-facto | schemes | 00:56 |
| de-facto | i mean if they want to establish new schemes, fine why not? but then go ahead with a phase III trial for exactly that scheme and get it approved with just the same process that other vaccines also required | 00:58 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +25 deaths (now 7729) since 21 hours ago | 01:10 |
| LjL | i think you have a slightly idealized view of the UK government and its relation with science there | 01:29 |
| LjL | during the first wave they were *this* close to "doing it the Sweden way" | 01:29 |
| de-facto | hmm but they got so many really good approaches, like those screening studies etc | 01:31 |
| de-facto | also the AZ trial design was one of the best, if they only had sticked to their protocols and not started to improvise at some point | 01:32 |
| LjL | sure, it would have been great if it hadn't been so bad | 01:33 |
| LjL | anyway, Oxford/AstraZeneca aren't the UK gov | 01:33 |
| LjL | what are the screening studies you're referring to, anyway? | 01:34 |
| de-facto | REACT for example | 01:34 |
| de-facto | or was it REACT2? | 01:35 |
| de-facto | also their sequencing | 01:35 |
| de-facto | at least it looks very good from outside | 01:35 |
| LjL | REACT2 is run by Imperial College. i think Imperial College has mostly come up with good things | 01:36 |
| LjL | but i think there may be a stark difference between programs that are run, and actual decisions that are made | 01:37 |
| LjL | of course, to run programs you also need to make a decision to run them, granted | 01:37 |
| LjL | but then there are the bigger political decisions (which you might argue should be scientific rather than political, but well, usually, they aren't) | 01:37 |
| de-facto | yeah you are probably right, RKI also does a great job in Germany, not so much the govermnent | 01:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pharmacist arrested after deliberately destroying 500 doses of COVID-19 vaccine → https://is.gd/pyg3Yc | 02:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Talk show host Larry King hospitalized with COVID-19 → https://is.gd/jF6Phh | 04:11 |
| Mark_ | for like a week already, right? | 04:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for New Zealand: +19 cases (now 2181) since 3 days ago | 04:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Chinese vaccine’s arrival in Turkey delayed, as Ankara is forced to agree to extradite Uighurs to China → https://is.gd/rtPxL5 | 04:47 |
| scheidegg[m] | There is no Virus | 05:01 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Belgium: +880 cases (now 649169), +63 deaths (now 19644) since 23 hours ago | 05:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Some covid survivors haunted by loss of smell and taste → https://is.gd/kpPRbc | 05:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Lab leak is the 'most credible' source of the coronavirus outbreak → https://is.gd/xmO9Ur | 06:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 702: Year of the Pandemic: For this first episode of 2021, the complete TWiV team reviews compelling virology stories of 2020, and thanks the multitude of guests who have helped us to navigate the pandemic, and our many listeners who turn to us for scientific facts. → https://is.gd/NdM28R | 06:14 |
| whytek | Unrelated to that last line, but I just had a conversation with a bordering on denier... | 06:17 |
| whytek | While I tried to bring it all down to earth with, well "neither of us can do more that speculate....", a couple of questions came up for me. | 06:18 |
| whytek | What is the actual recovery rate? | 06:18 |
| whytek | What is this speculation that people may be unlikely to return for second shot due to highly unpleasant symptoms after first shot. | 06:19 |
| whytek | It was proposed to me that this is a concern... hence wasting all those 1st shots. | 06:19 |
| whytek | s/symptoms/feeling of being unwell | 06:20 |
| whytek | Looks to me like press blew that out of proportion in November due to some North American making a video. | 06:23 |
| whytek | Yeah, ok.. so most media had headlines of "volunteerS" plural... but then only go out to quote that one guy. | 06:24 |
| whytek | *on | 06:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +11011 cases (now 1.8 million) since 16 hours ago | 06:26 |
| ubLIX[m] | whytek: all you can do is read, watch, and research in a discriminating way. why detain yourself with the ebb and flow and froth of every unsubstantiated musing | 06:31 |
| ubLIX[m] | for example, the 'most credible' article indirectly linked above by Brainstorm is from the Daily Mail. if there is any substance to the story, it will be picked up by more credible sources. if nothing more credible appears, forget it. | 06:33 |
| whytek | Hmm. I am not seeing Brainstorm | 06:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: A nursing home in Belgium had a holiday party. It led to 27 coronavirus deaths. → https://is.gd/J9bYqR | 06:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China clamps down in hidden hunt for coronavirus origins → https://is.gd/eHyYhf | 07:02 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Florida, United States: +31518 cases (now 1.4 million), +217 deaths (now 21890) since 2 days ago — Tennessee, United States: +17330 cases (now 604132), +63 deaths (now 6970) since 2 days ago — Ohio, United States: +14293 cases (now 714673), +55 deaths (now 9017) since 2 days ago — Illinois, United States: +11963 cases (now 975352), +236 deaths (now 18214) since 2 days ago | 07:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China is guarding ancient bat caves against journalists and scientists seeking to discover the origins of the coronavirus → https://is.gd/yEzFK2 | 07:39 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US distributes over 13.07 mln doses of COVID-19 vaccines; 4.2 mln administered → https://is.gd/MZ4dJz | 08:03 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Anguilla: +2 cases (now 15) since 5 days ago | 08:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: ‘Growing body of evidence’ shows COVID-19 leaked from Chinese lab: US official → https://is.gd/ySn4Lw | 08:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China blockades bat caves where scientists hope coronavirus clues lie → https://is.gd/AYGl0O | 08:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | January 03, 2021: The WHO pages contain up-to-date and global information. Please refer to our Wiki for additional information. → https://is.gd/ol4Gsn | 09:05 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Coronavirus: India approves vaccines from Bharat Biotech and Oxford/AstraZeneca → https://is.gd/yN2RdG | 09:54 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +11510 cases (now 1.8 million) since 20 hours ago | 10:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): nCoV: COVID-19: Indonesia adds 7,203 cases in single day | 03JAN21 → https://is.gd/z3JqKa | 10:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronavirusUK: BBC News: Primary schools: Send children to school on Monday, says PM → https://is.gd/L1TXgb | 11:07 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: ‘Growing body of evidence’ shows COVID-19 leaked from Chinese lab: US official → https://is.gd/hMjZPz | 11:31 |
| MartinStenzel[m] | <Brainstorm "New from r/WorldNews: worldnews:"> Never trust statements from U. S. officials, remember the Iraq war lie (one of a thousands of examples)? | 11:36 |
| MartinStenzel[m] | <MartinStenzel[m] "Never trust statements from U. S"> The U. S. Americans are great in creating the "most horrible enemy" - be it the Soviet, the Russian, the Chinese, the East European, the ... | 11:38 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Same as tschaina, russia, pp. Just trust no one. | 11:39 |
| MartinStenzel[m] | Hi there, one "simple" question to the room members: In Germany, as today, vaccination is started exclusively in the elderly persons, not the medical staff. Is this the same as in YOUR country? Wishes! | 11:46 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Well do you know which country has highest vaccsrate till now? guess who 😅 | 11:53 |
| MartinStenzel[m] | <elchupacabra420[ "Well do you know which country h"> Tell us! | 11:54 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Rather not... | 11:55 |
| MartinStenzel[m] | <elchupacabra420[ "Rather not..."> This morning I had a great discussion with my wife regarding injustice in this world... | 11:56 |
| genera | https://www.hessenschau.de/gesellschaft/corona-impfung-in-hessen-reibungslos-angelaufen,impfung-bilanz-100.html | 11:58 |
| MartinStenzel[m] | <genera "https://www.hessenschau.de/gesel"> das ist wohl wieder einmal Sache der Bundesländer!? In NRW sind die Mediziner wohl erst einmal "außen vor". | 12:01 |
| genera | i dont know. i have just remembered a picture of this nurse but not this pic | 12:01 |
| genera | https://www.hessenschau.de/gesellschaft/corona-impfungen-in-hessen-gestartet,impfstart-100.html | 12:05 |
| genera | i almost faint | 12:05 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Martin Stenzel: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccination-doses-per-capita?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&time=latest..latest | 12:10 |
| elchupacabra420[ | But the country where vacc was invented at first mystically "forgot " to pre-order. | 12:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Sweden crisis worsens after its anti-lockdown stance proven a failure → https://is.gd/euvUWJ | 12:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Palestinians excluded from Israeli Covid vaccine rollout as jabs go to settlers - Human rights groups accuse Israel of dodging obligations to millions in occupied territories who may wait months for vaccination → https://is.gd/2tG5Me | 12:56 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid: Hospitals begin receiving doses of Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine → https://is.gd/UjoOCa | 13:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Coronavirus: Medics complain of 'bureaucracy' in bid to join Covid vaccine effort → https://is.gd/t34tLR | 13:33 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +11513 cases (now 1.8 million) since 23 hours ago | 13:40 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Palestinians excluded from Israeli Covid vaccine rollout as jabs go to settlers → https://is.gd/cklme4 | 13:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China reports 24 new COVID-19 cases vs. 22 a day earlier → https://is.gd/EvVjwY | 13:57 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +20 deaths (now 7745) since 22 hours ago | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | de-facto: ^^^ >>Palestinians excluded from Israeli Covid vaccine...<< I guess the statistics from Israel need a reconsideration | 14:20 |
| de-facto | how you mean that? | 14:33 |
| de-facto | Vaccinations Germany per 100k citizens: Baden-Württemberg: 180.58; Bayern: 297.19; Berlin: 358.01; Brandenburg: 127.64; Bremen: 255.58; Hamburg: 164.68; Hessen: 394.25; Mecklenburg-Vorpommern: 714.74; Niedersachsen: 49.35; Nordrhein-Westfalen: 185.96; Rheinland-Pfalz: 168.49; Saarland: 336.01; Sachsen: 98.23; Sachsen-Anhalt: 536.32; Schleswig-Holstein: 274.26; Thüringen: 37.97; Gesamt: 226.72 | 14:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Most Healthcare Professionals in the US Refuse to Get the COVID-19 Vaccine → https://is.gd/1sUZJ4 | 14:47 |
| de-facto | Vaccinations Germany per 100k citizens (indication by age, medical or elderly care home): Baden-Württemberg: 123.23; Bayern: 173.89; Berlin: 506.44; Brandenburg: 17.76; Bremen: 156.19; Hamburg: 133.71; Hessen: 279; Mecklenburg-Vorpommern: 310.3; Niedersachsen: 49.57; Nordrhein-Westfalen: 120; Rheinland-Pfalz: 91.16; Saarland: 385.25; Sachsen: 23.98; Sachsen-Anhalt: 458.81; Schleswig-Holstein: 251.81; Thüringen: 30.23; Gesamt: 160.69 | 14:49 |
| de-facto | Vaccinations Germany per 100k citizens (indication by profession): Baden-Württemberg: 55.72; Bayern: 148.57; Berlin: 90.45; Brandenburg: 118.76; Bremen: 59.89; Hamburg: 92.19; Hessen: 230.28; Mecklenburg-Vorpommern: 409.36; Niedersachsen: 26.33; Nordrhein-Westfalen: 66; Rheinland-Pfalz: 77.33; Saarland: 33.95; Sachsen: 81.53; Sachsen-Anhalt: 262.44; Schleswig-Holstein: 161.51; Thüringen: 13.92; Gesamt: 104.24 | 14:51 |
| de-facto | MartinStenzel[m], ^^ there you can see the stats by the indications for vaccination in Germany | 14:53 |
| de-facto | source: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Daten/Impfquotenmonitoring | 14:54 |
| MartinStenzel[m] | <de-facto "Vaccinations Germany per 100k ci"> Thank you for the information! | 14:54 |
| de-facto | those are the numbers from yesterday you can get percentage if you divide by 1000 hence 226.72 per 100k would be 0.22672% of population | 14:57 |
| de-facto | that would be roughly ~ 1/441 having received the first dose of the BioNTech/Pfizer vaccine | 14:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Four COVID-19 patients die in Egypt due to alleged lack of oxygen → https://is.gd/o2eq4K | 14:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sucks! we completely lost insight into what's going on, since 14 days https://i.imgur.com/8b9tjmG.png | 15:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: New UK COVID-19 vaccine recommendations say 'it is reasonable' for people to mix and match different shots, even though there's not yet evidence that works → https://is.gd/EMR4Ep | 15:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, if UK recommends it, how could it be wrong¿¡ Gosh | 15:25 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canadian federal government (Justin Trudeau) ready to compensate all non essential travelers 1000$ for 2 weeks quarantine. → https://is.gd/6IO9Vy | 15:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Egypt approves Chinese Sinopharm COVID-19 vaccine: Egypt has approved the use of a COVID-19 vaccine developed by Chinese pharma giant Sinopharm with its rollout to start later in January, the health minister said. → https://is.gd/PufqWc | 15:49 |
| Arsanerit | DocScrutinizer05: All Palestinians or Palestinians in occupied territories? There are many Palestinians in Israel proper too.w | 15:57 |
| Arsanerit | de-facto: what is your source for the sub-national vaccination rates in Germany per Bundesland? | 15:58 |
| de-facto | Arsanerit, https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Daten/Impfquotenmonitoring | 15:58 |
| Arsanerit | de-facto: thanks | 15:59 |
| de-facto | combined with https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Gesellschaft-Umwelt/Bevoelkerung/Bevoelkerungsstand/Tabellen/bevoelkerung-nichtdeutsch-laender.html | 16:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: UK's Johnson warns of more lockdown measures as virus soars: British Prime Minister Boris Johnson warned Sunday that more onerous lockdown restrictions in England are likely as the country reels from a new coronavirus variant that has pushed infection rates to their highest recorded levels. → https://is.gd/PHbTgJ | 16:01 |
| de-facto | Arsanerit, also if you want population by state and age groups: https://www.destatis.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2020/12/PD20_N082_122.html | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Arsanerit: yeha, no idea. I shouldn't have commented | 16:04 |
| genera | that xlsx has 0 for NRW/RLP/Saar for medical professionals?? | 16:04 |
| genera | and in Sachsen: 1 | 16:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | reporting prolly more fubar than the campaign itself | 16:05 |
| de-facto | afaik Israel encouraged its arabic citizens to also go for vaccinations with their religious leaders being example and getting it first (i read in some newspapers if i remember correctly) | 16:07 |
| Arsanerit | I would expect that there are relatively more jews rejecting vaccinations for religious reasons than muslims. | 16:08 |
| Arsanerit | I might be wrong. It strikes me as an idea consistent with orthodox religions. | 16:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, absolutely | 16:10 |
| Arsanerit | although it seems the majority of those currently not willing to be vaccinated do so because they fear side effects, not for principled/religious reasons. | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | or chips ;-P | 16:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | those sissis! back when we had to roll up the 8" floppies before inserting themn rectally | 16:12 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Lockdowns, curfews, alcohol bans as nations fight resurgent virus: Countries across the world tightened restrictions on their populations Saturday to fight a resurgence in the coronavirus, as the European Union offered to help drug companies expand vaccine production to improve distribution "bottlenecks". → https://is.gd/9ygZKm | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then, I still wonder which OS is running that chop mass control. WINDOWS???? | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | chip* | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Arsanerit: I wonder if those folks are aware that the virus itself will cause exactly same plus then some side effects | 16:16 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, there's exactly one side effect that's unique to vaccine and not shared by virus: allergic reaction from lipids. Gosh, I'd get the shot even if I was guaranteed to get an allergic reaction | 16:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | applies to the mRNA vaccines ^^^ | 16:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: Regional rules 'probably going to get tougher', says Boris Johnson → https://is.gd/XlJDye | 16:38 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +75156 cases (now 2.6 million), +599 deaths (now 74910) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +7810 cases (now 822525), +43 deaths (now 11628) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +4051 cases (now 590359), +54 deaths (now 15715) since 22 hours ago | 17:11 |
| Jigsy | https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55521580 | 17:19 |
| Jigsy | %title | 17:19 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: From www.bbc.co.uk: Primary schools: Send children to school on Monday, says PM - BBC News | 17:19 |
| Jigsy | Cases today? 54,000ish. | 17:19 |
| de-facto | what could possibly go wrong with that? | 17:19 |
| Jigsy | I know, right? | 17:20 |
| de-facto | Maybe parents should organize a combined refuse to send their children to school unless local incidence is below a reasonable level | 17:20 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Yeah they could bring them to their grandparents instead so theyre able to go out for work. | 17:21 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Oh. Wait. | 17:21 |
| Mark_ | isnt it parents that are insisting they have a place to send their kids? | 17:21 |
| Mark_ | schools as babysitters? | 17:21 |
| Mark_ | dont most places have a virtual option? | 17:21 |
| Mark_ | local governments are being dumb but its citizens are complicit | 17:22 |
| de-facto | imho it would be a good investment to establish a fully remote digital school and give the children the devices and competence to participate | 17:22 |
| de-facto | but yeah fair point with the parents needing someone to take care of their kids, so why not pay them for employing babysitters that register to a static social bubble and dont change that? | 17:24 |
| Jigsy | Send the kids to work and the parents to school. | 17:24 |
| de-facto | surely its not all of them in need for that | 17:24 |
| Jigsy | 3>It does mildly boil my piss that advice on parenting is being dispensed by someone who can't even accurately count their children. | 17:25 |
| elchupacabra420[ | pay them? With what exavtly? And didnt they already paid with taxes for exactly that already? | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Jigsy: could you please refrain from using color codes? | 17:26 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Childcare and education, at least if youre not in 3rd world. | 17:26 |
| Jigsy | I don't mind, but why? | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | to start with, for legibility aka contrast | 17:27 |
| elchupacabra420[ | de-facto: Most your thoughts seem to be extremely ivory-towerd to me | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then, it doesn't add any info to the post | 17:28 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Like a silver spooned child of academical upper class | 17:29 |
| Jigsy | Fair enough. | 17:29 |
| elchupacabra420[ | :) | 17:29 |
| de-facto | elchupacabra420[, what alternative would you suggest to reopening schools then? | 17:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Israeli mother injured in Palestinian stone attack on way to COVID test → https://is.gd/3hoMqJ | 17:39 |
| elchupacabra420[ | there arent many options, this year would be as lost as the last for students anyway. Dividing classes onto smaller groups,2-shiftsystem, block class, masks and disinfection to maintain a minimum emergency shooling. And even that is ridiculous given the state of these institutions beforehand | 17:43 |
| elchupacabra420[ | in the whole still remembers nearly to middle of last century... | 17:45 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Well they suspended whipping and added some fancy overheadlrojectors mid80s. | 17:48 |
| de-facto | well imho for aged that would not need to be under surveillance by adults anymore the digital classes would be the best alternative. and afaik its those ages (not very young) that are suspected to generate most additional incidence | 17:49 |
| de-facto | i agree that there would have to be some sort of emergency care for young children of parents that could not take care of their own children due to their professions or such | 17:50 |
| de-facto | yet i still think putting them together in big groups is a bad idea, even with the good concepts you mentioned above | 17:50 |
| genera | not sure they really suspended | 17:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid: Regional rules 'probably going to get tougher', says Boris Johnson → https://is.gd/XlJDye | 17:52 |
| Jigsy | Unless they start executing people who go outside, I don't possibly see how. | 17:55 |
| Jigsy | They're not doing anything now. | 17:56 |
| euod[m] | life ruiningly large fines would be fun. | 18:09 |
| euod[m] | go to a party? $100k, undismissable lean on your income. | 18:09 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Pretending vacc works as expected it would cost us another year. | 18:13 |
| elchupacabra420[ | we should consider a lockdown "extra spicy " wuhanstyle. | 18:14 |
| elchupacabra420[ | No one leaves his rooms for 2w, everyone except | 18:17 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Medical, police and secuity outside will be detained in camps. Mandatory negati etest whoever wants to get back then. No exceptions. | 18:17 |
| ubLIX[m] | food deliverers. you forgot food deliverers | 18:19 |
| elchupacabra420[ | By military or such direct delivery of staplefood | 18:20 |
| elchupacabra420[ | No such things like dogwalking, let them poo inside | 18:21 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Maybe we could reboot till march that way | 18:22 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Italy: +14245 cases (now 2.2 million), +347 deaths (now 75332) since 23 hours ago | 18:26 |
| ubLIX[m] | doing that in a city of 11 million is one thing. but can the logistics possibly scale for an uncontrolled epidemic in a small country of tens of millions, or countries with hundreds of millions | 18:26 |
| ubLIX[m] | Wuhan's effort required the influx of vast resources from unaffected outside regions | 18:27 |
| ubLIX[m] | how will this requirement for outside resources be met when there is no outside | 18:27 |
| euod[m] | it's not like western "lockdowns" have done much though. | 18:27 |
| LjL | uh, i would say they have | 18:27 |
| euod[m] | everyone still goes about their day as usual. | 18:27 |
| LjL | sure, with a police form filled | 18:28 |
| LjL | which hopefully isn't lying | 18:28 |
| euod[m] | huh? | 18:28 |
| euod[m] | right, some people are doing it better. | 18:28 |
| LjL | i cannot go outside without printing and filling in a form that explains why (and it has to be an "accepted" reason) | 18:28 |
| LjL | well, Italy, France and Spain have done it that way | 18:28 |
| LjL | so maybe instead of saying western "lockdowns" just say bad lockdowns | 18:28 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Brain damage of patients with Covid-19 → https://is.gd/IB5krp | 18:28 |
| LjL | our lockdowns have done more or less what they intended to | 18:28 |
| LjL | they "paused" new cases, then a while after they ended, the cases surged again | 18:29 |
| LjL | which was predicted by that old Imperial College paper, so it was expected | 18:29 |
| LjL | the idea was to massively prepare for the next surge | 18:29 |
| LjL | instead the obvious mistake was going "oh, we have few cases now, let's ignore the whole thing again" | 18:29 |
| LjL | if you look at, say, Italy vs Sweden, it's not really so different when things add up. the difference is in the *shape* of the curve, with Italy having the long "pause" after the lockdown. so if one expected the lockdown to make a long-term difference without anything else, then it failed. if one simply expected the lockdown to buy a decent amount of time to react (which wasn't done properly), then the lockdown succeeded per se | 18:31 |
| LjL | %fdroid Attestation | 18:31 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Attestation de déplacement 3.5.0 (com.poupa.attestationdeplacement) in https://f-droid.org/repo: Generates the PDF attestation file required by the French government to go out. - updated 2020-12-18, see https://github.com/AdrienPoupa/AttestationDeplacement | 18:31 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Last time I checked, not all indexes could be downloaded! | 18:31 |
| LjL | (example of police form for going out) | 18:31 |
| elchupacabra420[ | Its like trying to take out a major fire but going home before you purge out all hotspots. Wont work too good. | 18:32 |
| elchupacabra420[ | or we could surfride from wave to wave this decade bebause that beast is a life form and evolves. | 18:36 |
| ubLIX[m] | i think the end goal has to be NZ style mandatory 14 day quarantines in secure residential facilities for all incoming travellers (i am thinking of the UK here), which is of course of no value except where in-country epidemic is effectively controlled. so in the meantime, months of build up to logistical capacity for nationwide food deliveries to 60 million people. when the logistics are in place, nationwide 24/7 marshal | 18:43 |
| ubLIX[m] | law for at least 14 days, or until covid is all but eradicated. then onto pedestrian and clipboard contact tracing and maintenance of travellers 14 day quarantines indefinitely. | 18:43 |
| ubLIX[m] | to the extent this program is impossible for a country as inept and corrupt as the UK, we are doomed to the petri dish of escape mutation | 18:43 |
| euod[m] | hey my plan of buying a cabin in the woods doesn't sound so terible now. | 18:47 |
| LjL | ubLIX[m], yesterday i read an article about Brexit-related difficulties UK citizens who are Spanish resident faced when boarding planes back to Spain. which is unrelated to COVID, but i realized there was no mention at all of quarantines once in Spain. in Italy, we don't allow people from the UK to enter, but if the rest of Schengen does it differently, that's not much use. | 18:49 |
| ubLIX[m] | LjL: i just saw another commenter report Spanish authorities declared such returning expats now have no right of entry | 18:51 |
| ubLIX[m] | oops | 18:52 |
| LjL | ubLIX[m], uh, the article i read said that the embassy (which embassy? i forget) said "that shouldn't happen". but i guess it was specifically about their papers not being accepted by the airlines, not whether they were allowed back in the first place... | 18:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Coronavirus vaccine: PM expects 'tens of millions' of jabs by April → https://is.gd/TeiB8h | 18:53 |
| ubLIX[m] | the commenter i cite almost certainly gleaned this from the Daily Mail, so.. further research is needed | 18:57 |
| euod[m] | that anybody is flying anywhere is sort of confusing. | 18:59 |
| Mark_ | what about vaccinated people | 19:00 |
| euod[m] | Mark_: vaccinated does not mean immune. | 19:01 |
| Mark_ | sure, but good enough for air travel? | 19:01 |
| Mark_ | whats the goal posts? | 19:02 |
| ubLIX[m] | the question on vaccination programs is how long will it take to produce a population wide effect, and will they remain effective throughout this span of time | 19:05 |
| de-facto | imho air travel should be illegal for passengers until incidence goes down and herd immunity by vaccination proved to be effective in holding it down | 19:07 |
| de-facto | but people dont understand, they want to be entertained, socialize with friends and have fun, some even go for party etc | 19:09 |
| de-facto | or holidays etc as if we would not know the effects from that 9 months into this | 19:09 |
| genera | Für die Einrichtung gilt seitdem ein Besuchsverbot. Die Sieben-Tage-Inzidenz in der Statd Lollar war auf 1.196 gestiegen. | 19:11 |
| genera | (small town, maybe 5000, and one senior residence, and about half of them tesing positive) | 19:15 |
| de-facto | wow. | 19:23 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Palestinians excluded from Israeli Covid vaccine rollout as jabs go to settlers | Israel transports batches of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine deep inside the West Bank. But they are only distributed to Jewish settlers, and not the roughly 2.7 million Palestinians living around them who may have to wait → https://is.gd/37qSmF | 19:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add press release about final primary endpoint data for Sputnik V → https://is.gd/CwKspR | 19:54 |
| de-facto | RKI Germany COVID-19 2021-01-03 (weekend and new years rep.?): Weekly Incidence 139.6/100k, Infections +10315 (1765666 total), Fatalities +312 (34272 total), COVID@ICU 5759(incl. 3177 on ventilator) | 20:06 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Ireland: +4961 cases (now 101887), +7 deaths (now 2259) since 23 hours ago | 20:11 |
| LjL | de-facto, "In conclusion, we have shown that the authentic SARS-CoV-2 virus, if constantly pressured, has the ability to escape even a potent polyclonal serum targeting multiple neutralizing epitopes." https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.12.28.424451v1 | 20:16 |
| LjL | looks like an italian study | 20:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: SARS-CoV-2 Escape in Vitro from a Highly Neutralizing COVID-19 Convalescent Plasma → https://is.gd/8Y5TVN | 20:18 |
| de-facto | damn | 20:23 |
| de-facto | LjL, imho those convalescent plasma therapies are a very bad idea: 1) either they not neutralizing (because the antibodies contained were raised against another variant of the S-protein) hence applying non-neutralizing selection pressure to train viral generations to escape such varieties of antibody populations | 20:28 |
| de-facto | or 2) even antibody populations that are highly neutralizing may not catch all the virions and since the immune pressure by such convalescent plasma therapies are "static" in a sense that they can not adapt their "direction" by feedback of the current infection strains their targeting of the antigen would deteriorate with time by the antigen mutating away under the selection pressure | 20:30 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Teachers in England ‘scared’ and ‘frustrated’ as schools are told to reopen → https://is.gd/fGofo4 | 20:30 |
| LjL | but... it might well save the person undergoing the treatment | 20:31 |
| de-facto | and afaik stats for treatment did not look promising at all | 20:31 |
| LjL | it might be bad population-wise | 20:31 |
| LjL | but it's probably an ethical dilemma for doctors, if they do save people | 20:31 |
| de-facto | im not sure if there are statistically significant results that really underline the assumption that mortality can be lowered by convalescent plasma | 20:32 |
| de-facto | maybe in some rare immuno-compromised cases or such? | 20:32 |
| de-facto | i think the success from the immune response comes from it constantly adapting a "army" of various antibodies spreading with greater variety around the spread of the phylogenetic tree of the initial infection variant | 20:34 |
| de-facto | hence every mutant constantly would be surrounded by an army of antibodies following its "mutation trajectory" with time (via feedback) and because the response would be "smoothed" (in epitope binding) it would catch potential escaping mutants with having them in the "middle" of variety | 20:38 |
| genera | it means you can still use reconvalescent plasma but you need to put the patient under quarantine for a long time. maybe. | 20:38 |
| de-facto | a convalescent plasma would not have the ability to "follow" such mutation trajectories and as soon as the mutant "goes" to the side arms of the variety of antibodies it would "fall down the hill" by selection pressure, completely out of balance | 20:39 |
| de-facto | that is assuming it was balanced by choosing exactly the correct convalescent plasma for fighting that variant of SARS-CoV-2 antigen | 20:42 |
| de-facto | probably in the majority of cases the convalescent plasma would already start with an asymmetric variety of neutralizing capability around a given SARS-CoV-2 variant hence give it directional selection pressure (away from the median of the variety) right from beginning | 20:43 |
| de-facto | that is my interpretation, so personal speculation | 20:44 |
| de-facto | which raises an interesting question: what would happen if they mix up all the convalescent plasma from many many different recoveries, i.e. have a very large variety of antibodies | 20:49 |
| bn_mobile | Has anyone come up with a good durable solution to the cheap rubber bands that keep breaking on N95 masks? I've already modified to reorient the bands so they loop over the ears vs. the head but one side has gradually gotten shorter as the band & now (thick) staple have broken from repeated repairs (I tried replacing it with 1, then 2, normal staples but it's too thin & keep tearing off). Any thoughts? | 20:50 |
| de-facto | i tried to repair some masks with snapped off rubber bands with a stapler | 20:51 |
| de-facto | they did hold so far (because the metal clamp would not snap off so easily) | 20:51 |
| bn_mobile | I was thinking some sort of rope/twine but am uncertain of its comfort level over extended use | 20:52 |
| de-facto | idk maybe the cheap rubber bands could be replaced with more quality (textile containing) ones from tailors store? | 20:52 |
| bn_mobile | Or whether the staples would hold them in. | 20:52 |
| de-facto | imho the bands going around the head are more convenient over long time periods because after some time pulling behind the ears may hurt | 20:53 |
| bn_mobile | de-facto: do you have an image of these textile type of bands? | 20:53 |
| de-facto | yeah staple them from inside so the metal could not scratch the skin | 20:53 |
| bn_mobile | de-facto: I found the over mounting annoying to take on /off + they stretched the bands more reducing its life | 20:54 |
| de-facto | no but i thought such that would be used to build clothes (yet use the thinnest because otherwise the pulling force would be too strong) | 20:54 |
| bn_mobile | s/over/over-head/ | 20:55 |
| de-facto | yeah everyone probably got different preferences in that regard, from my experience the ones over head turned out to be more comfy for me to wear long time (e.g. 8h a day or such= | 20:55 |
| bn_mobile | de-facto: oh, you mean for like undergarments & such? | 20:56 |
| de-facto | yeah but the thinnest of such | 20:57 |
| de-facto | probably might have better quality because meant for more longterm usage even including washing etc | 20:57 |
| de-facto | yet if it got flat and not circular cross section it might be more easy to fix it on the mask | 20:58 |
| de-facto | and also be more comfy to wear | 20:59 |
| de-facto | though i have to admit i did not experiment with those myself, i only fixed the ones that shipped with the mask itself | 20:59 |
| de-facto | i read some of the more expensive 3M N95 masks would have more high quality rubber bands (probably mitigating the main reason to throw away masks, even if they are meant for only one time usage officially) | 21:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Palestinians excluded from Israeli Covid vaccine rollout as jabs go to settlers → https://is.gd/5gYMJl | 21:07 |
| bn_mobile | I just found some overstretched elastic-ish twine for an old mask that no longer stays up, maybe if I cut a piece out, I could solve two problems at once, lol | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: "This saddens me" - Pope condemns travelling abroad to escape coronavirus lockdowns → https://is.gd/LcXDk3 | 21:19 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +91 deaths (now 65002) since 23 hours ago | 21:44 |
| LjL | ubLIX[m], https://www.ons.gov.uk/news/statementsandletters/theprevalenceoflongcovidsymptomsandcovid19complications | 21:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pope 'saddened' that people are vacationing to flee COVID-19 lockdowns → https://is.gd/0qJk91 | 22:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Palestinians excluded from Israeli Covid vaccine rollout as jabs go to settlers → https://is.gd/Ayr6fh | 22:21 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Fauci: Vaccinations are ramping up in a 'glimmer of hope': The U.S. ramped up COVID-19 vaccinations in the past few days after a slower-than-expected start, bringing the number of shots dispensed to about 4 million, government health officials said Sunday. → https://is.gd/kcIpp5 | 22:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: South Africa hopes to begin virus vaccinations next month: South Africa, which has been hard hit by a second wave of coronavirus cases, hopes to obtain its first vaccine doses next month, the health minister announced Sunday. → https://is.gd/02Vqtg | 22:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add ONS page about long COVID estimates → https://is.gd/cuCOgb | 23:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Chad: +44 cases (now 2213) since a day ago — Germany: +5115 cases (now 1.8 million) since 16 hours ago | 23:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Grenada: +1 deaths (now 1) since 4 days ago | 23:54 |
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