| Brainstorm | Updates for Dominica: +16 cases (now 105) since 23 days ago — Switzerland: +91 deaths (now 8109) since 23 hours ago | 00:04 |
|---|---|---|
| SrPx | Hello. I may have been exposed to the virus about 2 days ago. I'm feeling a loss of taste. Are exams likely to detect the virus in this early stage? Which is the best early? | 00:08 |
| LjL | SrPx, if you have symptoms it seems likely that a PCR test would detect it | 00:09 |
| LjL | 2 days is pretty quick though | 00:10 |
| SrPx | LjL: I'm not sure I do, I *think* I'm feeling a loss of taste. Perhaps the food was just bad | 00:10 |
| LjL | are you sure you couldn't have been exposed more likely before? say 3 to 10 days ago? | 00:10 |
| SrPx | LjL: less likely since I've been at home, but who knows | 00:10 |
| LjL | SrPx, loss of smell/taste with COVID is often very marked | 00:10 |
| LjL | also smell is not the same as taste but some people can't fully tell the difference | 00:11 |
| LjL | try smelling something that should have a distinct and clear smell, and for taste, put a tiny bit of salt on your tongue | 00:11 |
| LjL | of course these are not rigorous tests of anything | 00:11 |
| LjL | in perspective, although we can hope you don't get to need it... do you have a pulse oximeter, and more basically, a thermometer? | 00:12 |
| SrPx | I'm trying condensed milk (the sweetest thing I can think of) and it is definitely sweet. But the diet dessert that just arrived is simply flavourless, lol. I really hope it is just bad. | 00:13 |
| SrPx | LjL: I have a thermometer. I think having a pulse oximeter won't hurt, right? I can buy one right now | 00:13 |
| LjL | it won't hurt, and they are more expensive than a simple thermometer but still pretty cheap | 00:13 |
| blkshp | a pulse oximiter just shines an LED through your finger. | 00:13 |
| LjL | two LEDs, technically, but yeah | 00:13 |
| blkshp | it may pinch :) | 00:14 |
| blkshp | LjL: I stand corrected :) | 00:14 |
| SrPx | No, I mean, it is a good idea to have one. I didn't mean hurt literally | 00:14 |
| LjL | i think it's a good idea, although you should be aware of limitations | 00:14 |
| LjL | for instance, many people when they start having lung issues compensate by breathing more rapidly | 00:14 |
| blkshp | I have a BP machine but that's the limit of my medical devices (other than a thermometer) | 00:14 |
| LjL | then the pulse oximeter may still read 99%, until they just cannot keep up the pace | 00:14 |
| LjL | so a trained nurse would look at the oxygen saturation but also the breathing rate | 00:15 |
| SrPx | Actually yea, I could have been exposed 5 days ago. I've went to a (sadly) crowded store. But it wasn't for long, and I was wearing a KN95 all time. | 00:15 |
| LjL | but on the other hand, there is a class of COVID patients who have been dubbed "happy hypoxic", who have low, sometimes very low, oxygen saturation, and don't really notice | 00:15 |
| LjL | SrPx, masks improve the odds but are hardly foolproof. 5 days is more consistent with the average symptom onset time | 00:15 |
| LjL | typical KN95 masks have a pretty bad fit | 00:16 |
| SrPx | I wonder how protective a KN95 really is against covid? Is it a really good protection in the sense I can walk around and not worry, or is it more like "it decreases the chances you get it, but don't count on it"? | 00:16 |
| SrPx | LjL: ok, you just answered the question I was typing | 00:16 |
| SrPx | happy hypoxic would be a neat band name | 00:17 |
| LjL | maybe someone will pick it up | 00:17 |
| LjL | i won't claim it as a trademark | 00:17 |
| SrPx | thanks for your generousness | 00:17 |
| euod[m] | SrPx: they vary quite a bit in fit. I think that most of the time people's masks are just being blown past. I have 3M ones that have silicone seals and the experience of wearing them is substantially different. | 00:17 |
| LjL | do you know where/how you could get a test? | 00:17 |
| SrPx | anyway, the pulse oximeter isn't useful for diagnosis in such early stage right? | 00:18 |
| LjL | euod[m], your 3Ms wouldn't be rated "KN95" | 00:18 |
| SrPx | euod[m]: blown past as in, the air enters from the gaps because of the bad fit? | 00:18 |
| LjL | KN95 isn't a bad rating per se. it's similar to N95 and FFP2, and arguably more strict than N95. it's just that masks rated KN95 are usually of poor quality | 00:18 |
| euod[m] | LjL: I was comparing the KN95 masks I've worn, and the 3M N95 ones. | 00:18 |
| SrPx | hmm, there is a place selling N95 masks near me, but it costs $4 per mask | 00:19 |
| euod[m] | just in terms of air leakage it's chalk and cheese. | 00:19 |
| LjL | SrPx, that's still cheap | 00:19 |
| euod[m] | that sounds very cheap. | 00:19 |
| SrPx | LjL: yep, many places testing around. I think I'll make a RT-PCR tomorrow | 00:19 |
| LjL | and keep in mind that KN95 have often been allowed to be re-labelled FFP2, and probably also N95 in America | 00:19 |
| SrPx | $4 per mask is cheap? ouch | 00:19 |
| LjL | yes, i'm afraid so | 00:19 |
| SrPx | that would be like $120 per month if I go out every day | 00:19 |
| LjL | but anyway you need to look at the mask and see its quality | 00:20 |
| LjL | SrPx, i'm not telling you to do this, but many people here who have talked about masks have mentioned they do re-wear the same one, usually after a period of sitting outside (in the sun, ideally, but that was some months ago...) | 00:20 |
| SrPx | LjL: I did, I bought 3, it feels like a glove made from angel feathers. It fits perfectly and is so comfortable, and it seems high quality | 00:20 |
| euod[m] | I wouldn't consider not reusing my masks. | 00:20 |
| SrPx | but I judged too expensive and traded for a box of KN95 that costs $1.5 per mask, guess it wasn't a good decision now | 00:21 |
| LjL | SrPx, that doesn't really describe it for me. did it come folded in two and you had to open it, with a metal clip for the nose that was also folded? | 00:21 |
| euod[m] | I do have an amusing mask story. | 00:22 |
| LjL | SrPx, basically, wear a mask, try breathing in somewhat forcefully (but not too much) and if the mask tries to fold in, it's probably having a tight fit. if its shape stays more or less the same, it's leaking | 00:22 |
| LjL | of course real fit tests are done with equipment, not just this rule of thumb | 00:22 |
| SrPx | it had the n95 I purchased came folded, yes, it had a metal, and even a soft sponge around it that sealed airflow around the nose | 00:22 |
| LjL | the sponge is probably nice | 00:22 |
| SrPx | the k95 is more like a beak and it feels cheaper | 00:22 |
| SrPx | kn95* | 00:22 |
| SrPx | LjL: great advice, thanks (: | 00:23 |
| LjL | i would suggest wearing one of the N95s if you still have them when you get tested | 00:23 |
| LjL | you never know, maybe you don't have it, wouldn't want to *get* it by checking | 00:23 |
| SrPx | so, the KN95 is *definitely* not fit enough for my mother. What should she use instead though? Are tight cloth masks better then? | 00:23 |
| SrPx | her head is small | 00:23 |
| euod[m] | did some nuclear imaging, was talking to the tech at some distance about procedure. he told me that it was hospital policy was that I was forbidden from removing my mask to get into the MRI, but also commented that they're aware of people getting severe facial burns from wearing masks that contain metal. I didn't wear the mask. | 00:23 |
| SrPx | LjL: I don't, but I will definitely stick to them now | 00:24 |
| LjL | SrPx, cloth masks are probably not very effective, but it's really hard for me to tell whether a good multi-layer cloth mask that fits well would be better than a lousy KN95 that doesn't fit | 00:24 |
| SrPx | I see | 00:24 |
| LjL | urgh | 00:24 |
| LjL | euod[m], i had a head MRI once and no one (not them, not my dentist) knew whether my fixed dental appliance (which i'll probably have for life) would affect it. and then i read scary stories. i just had it removed and a new one installed later. | 00:25 |
| LjL | it's just a wire behind my front teeth to stop them from moving. but you know, metal wire. | 00:26 |
| euod[m] | LjL: that's not super uncommon. generally anything dental is MRI safe, but best to not have that concern right. | 00:26 |
| LjL | euod[m], the one i had back then was veeeeery old, so i didn't feel comfortable with it being MRI safe | 00:26 |
| LjL | i had had it for probably 15 years or so | 00:26 |
| euod[m] | yeah I wouldn't have trusted blind luck either. | 00:27 |
| euod[m] | big, big fucking magnet. | 00:27 |
| LjL | euod[m], when you read stories of people who felt their teeth were being pulled inside the machine... *shudder* | 00:27 |
| SrPx | anyway, just to be sure: if I'm feeling a very mild loss of taste, that is definitely a point where the test will work and I won't waste $70 right? | 00:27 |
| LjL | SrPx, sorry, i find it hard to say anything is "definite" when it comes to COVID ;( but also while you research where to get a test, it'll probably be another 1-2 days and you'll probably know more for sure whether you have loss of taste? | 00:28 |
| LjL | also, even if you have all the symptoms in the world, a PCR test always has the possibility of a false negative | 00:29 |
| LjL | the test itself is very sensitive, but the swabbing can be done wrongly or just not pick up infected tissue | 00:29 |
| SrPx | I'm 1 button press away from scheduling a test tomorrow morning | 00:29 |
| SrPx | it is the salive one | 00:29 |
| SrPx | spittle* | 00:30 |
| SrPx | not sure how to say saliva in English, sorry | 00:30 |
| LjL | saliva | 00:30 |
| LjL | i thought it wasn't common to do them on saliva only | 00:30 |
| LjL | but i remember a study from quite a while ago that said it was actually reliable | 00:30 |
| SrPx | hmm idk | 00:30 |
| SrPx | it is the same cost, but faster result (48h vs 72h) | 00:31 |
| LjL | still, most actual tests i've heard of use both saliva (throat swab) and a nasal swab | 00:31 |
| SrPx | so it seemed like a no brainer | 00:31 |
| LjL | well | 00:31 |
| LjL | it's a "no brainer" also in the sense that you won't feel your brain is being intruded into by the swab :P | 00:31 |
| LjL | which is people's typical experience with the nose swab | 00:31 |
| LjL | but i suspect if you get the normal nose+throat swab, that has fewer chances of a false negative | 00:31 |
| euod[m] | yes, my friend got the nasal test, she did not enjoy the experience. | 00:32 |
| LjL | maybe just wait one more day. or do you need to get the test in order to call off work, etc? | 00:32 |
| romare | hey, should I trust coronavac? | 00:39 |
| romare | I'll be getting it very soon | 00:39 |
| Skunny | sure | 00:39 |
| romare | thanks | 00:39 |
| romare | I had no doubts anyways | 00:40 |
| romare | still wanted to ask | 00:40 |
| romare | I'm kinda excited | 00:40 |
| romare | what would LjL think about it? | 00:41 |
| euod[m] | you're very lucky. | 00:41 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Immunological memory to SARS-CoV-2 assessed for up to 8 months after infection (81 votes) | https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2021/01/05/science.abf4063 | https://redd.it/krq4wi | 00:41 |
| LjL | romare, i am not really familiar with it, but i don't believe they released phase 3 data. de-facto? | 00:41 |
| LjL | %vax coronavac | 00:41 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, no such vaccine found. Try checking https://covidvax.org | 00:41 |
| LjL | groan | 00:41 |
| LjL | %vax moderna | 00:41 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, mRNA-1273 LNPencapsulated mRNA is a RNA-based vaccine developed in USA by Moderna + NIAID + Lonza + Catalent Inc. + BIOQUAL, which began its distribution on date January 2021 with participants → https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccine/Moderna | 00:41 |
| LjL | oh it's sinovac | 00:43 |
| LjL | %vax sinovac | 00:43 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Inactivated + alum CoronaVac is a Inactivated virus vaccine developed in China + Brazil by Sinovac + Instituto Butatan, which began its testing on humans on date Apr 13 with 28548 participants → https://covidvax.org/covid19-vaccine/Sinovac [... want %more?] | 00:43 |
| LjL | inactivated, hmm | 00:43 |
| romare | my father is a doctor and in my country doctors' families are also the first ones to be vaccinated | 00:43 |
| LjL | i see | 00:43 |
| romare | my father called me and asked if I want to get shot | 00:43 |
| romare | I said ok | 00:43 |
| euod[m] | surely that means attenuated? | 00:43 |
| LjL | no, inactivated is not the same as attenuated | 00:44 |
| euod[m] | right, dead versus sort of dead. | 00:44 |
| euod[m] | wasn't thinking. | 00:44 |
| LjL | attenuated virus is live virus that is believed to have been made drowsy enough that it might replicate a little but ultimately do no harm | 00:44 |
| LjL | yes | 00:44 |
| euod[m] | romare: that sounds pretty wise. | 00:44 |
| romare | yeah I think it's doable | 00:44 |
| romare | all my father's friends are taking it. all are medical people | 00:45 |
| romare | but I still wanted to ask you guys | 00:45 |
| romare | I know how inactivated vaccines work | 00:45 |
| euod[m] | trust the actual MDs though, they're the ones at the highest risk and deepest understanding. | 00:45 |
| romare | exactly | 00:46 |
| romare | my father's been practicing medicine for 35 years | 00:46 |
| euod[m] | same way you wouldn't trust a NASCAR fan to drive a NASCAR. we're interested but likely not experienced (can't speak for anyone else in the channel though). | 00:46 |
| LjL | i don't know, i don't feel i can be "sure, get it!" about something that has no phase 3 data | 00:46 |
| LjL | it's probably fine, but you're basically being experimented on | 00:46 |
| LjL | also | 00:46 |
| romare | yeah | 00:47 |
| LjL | inactivated likely has a small caveat | 00:47 |
| romare | I take the risk if there's any whatsoever | 00:47 |
| LjL | you will probably not be able to get tested for COVID antibodies anymore | 00:47 |
| Jigsy | [23:46:37] <euod[m]> same way you wouldn't trust a NASCAR fan to drive a NASCAR. | 00:47 |
| de-facto | romare, the inactivated "traditional" vaccines were my favorites until the numbers from the "modern" mRNA vaccines looked even more convincing. I have to admit though that i still like the idea that those inactivated vaccines contain the "original" in its whole (but inactive) form | 00:47 |
| Jigsy | I wouldn't trust anyone who likes NASCAR on principle. | 00:47 |
| de-facto | id go for it in your place | 00:47 |
| de-facto | (and i have to admit i envy you a bit) | 00:47 |
| romare | lol | 00:48 |
| romare | yeah I don't envy myself | 00:48 |
| LjL | no need to envy romare, he's had like the worst streak of bad luck you can imagine | 00:48 |
| euod[m] | purely from a risk standpoint, getting COVID19 is not a low probability, and fairly high probability of causing you actual long term harm. | 00:48 |
| romare | yup | 00:48 |
| romare | LjL knows me. | 00:48 |
| de-facto | im just talking about that vaccination offer, most of us probably will have for half a year to get such an offer | 00:49 |
| de-facto | *will have to wait for half a year | 00:49 |
| romare | yeah it'll take the whole world to be vaccinated about 3 years | 00:50 |
| LjL | optimist | 00:50 |
| romare | thx | 00:50 |
| LjL | Butantan has said the vaccine is between 50% and 90% effective in Brazil, but withheld full results at Sinovac's request, raising questions about transparency as it was the third delay in releasing results.[6][7] | 00:51 |
| romare | is it possible that my vaccination will be invalid in 2 years or something? | 00:51 |
| LjL | Separately on December 24, Turkey released Phase III results from an interim analysis of 29 cases which showed an efficacy rate of 91.25% based on the data of 1,322 participants in a trial involving 7,371 volunteers, a confusing readout compared to Brazil.[8][9][7] | 00:51 |
| LjL | romare, yes | 00:51 |
| romare | fuck | 00:52 |
| romare | what channel to join for making spacecrafts? | 00:52 |
| LjL | i'd say even likely... but not because of the particular vaccine | 00:52 |
| LjL | #space probably, they'll love you until they ban you | 00:53 |
| romare | I'm so happy that it actually exists | 00:53 |
| de-facto | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EqQ2bxwXEAIMdX7.jpg | 00:55 |
| LjL | romare, you need to be aware that with a likely efficacy between 50% and 90% (who knows what it is really, with a range like this?) you'll still have to take the same precautions as before | 00:56 |
| romare | de-facto: spooky as fuck man how do you share turkish graphs? | 00:56 |
| de-facto | i googled for it :) | 00:56 |
| romare | LjL: yup, I know | 00:56 |
| LjL | also i reiterate, with an inactivated vaccine, you will get antibodies of all sorts, same as with the regular virus (at least it seems likely); this means that if at some point you think you were infected before, but the infection has waned now, an antibody test would not be able to tell you whether you were infected or you simply still have antibodies from the vaccine | 00:56 |
| romare | de-facto: that's some good dose of placebo! | 00:57 |
| de-facto | yeah | 00:57 |
| romare | LjL: yeah I'm well aware | 00:57 |
| romare | all fine | 00:57 |
| LjL | well, just saying because this is different from vaccines based on the S-protein (whether mRNA or viral vector) | 00:58 |
| romare | yeah | 00:58 |
| romare | I think I'll be fine | 00:58 |
| romare | I side with science. | 00:58 |
| LjL | it would be easier to say "science" if anything was published on an actual *scientific* journal :P | 01:00 |
| LjL | phase 2 is here i think https://www.thelancet.com/article/S1473-3099(20)30843-4/fulltext | 01:00 |
| romare | I've been following the vaccine for a while. I'm only waiting for a pass from Hacettepe | 01:01 |
| romare | then I think all the medicals in turkey will be vaccinated | 01:01 |
| romare | Hacettepe is like the biggest medical institution you could trust here | 01:02 |
| LjL | oh oh oh i found it | 01:02 |
| LjL | https://trialsjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13063-020-04775-4 | 01:02 |
| de-facto | LjL was quicker, was just going to post the same links | 01:03 |
| LjL | oh it's just the trial design | 01:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: After Slow Start, Europeans Call For Quicker Vaccines Against COVID-19: From France to Germany to The Netherlands, citizens are venting frustration over the pace of the mass vaccination program. → https://is.gd/EFaiHP | 01:04 |
| LjL | de-facto, i found another vaccine tracker, although the page design is a bit confusing https://www.contagionlive.com/view/the-covid19-live-vaccine-tracker | 01:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for South Africa: +21832 cases (now 1.1 million) since a day ago — Uruguay: +1393 cases (now 23048), +10 deaths (now 221) since 23 hours ago — Barbados: +51 cases (now 743) since 13 hours ago — Netherlands: +6010 cases (now 842728), +148 deaths (now 11974) since 23 hours ago | 01:06 |
| de-facto | i also like https://www.precisionvaccinations.com/vaccines/coronavac-sars-cov-2-vaccine | 01:06 |
| LjL | %tr <pr https://www.contagionlive.com/view/the-covid19-live-vaccine-tracker | 01:06 |
| LjL | ugh | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Eleman Proper to English: | 01:06 |
| LjL | stupid js | 01:06 |
| LjL | %tr <pr "A vacina Butantan é a mais segura em termos de efeitos colaterais. É a vacina mais segura neste momento não só no Brasil, mas no mundo", disse Dimas Covas. | 01:06 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Eleman Proper to English: | 01:06 |
| LjL | yeah whatever | 01:06 |
| LjL | it says Coronavac is the "safest" vaccines from side effects, not just in Brasil, but in the world | 01:07 |
| LjL | published on https://agenciabrasil.ebc.com.br/saude/noticia/2020-10/coronavac-e-vacina-em-teste-mais-segura-contra-covid-19 | 01:07 |
| LjL | this is honestly not science, this is PR and politics | 01:07 |
| LjL | Europe is ignoring this vaccine, but a set of countries that are probably more aligned with China in some ways are ignoring the vaccines Europe is ignoring instead | 01:07 |
| LjL | so you could say, fine, everybody is ignoring everyone else, the vaccines are probably good all the same. and they might be. but i think publishing in a journal was still the minimum standard last i checked | 01:08 |
| LjL | %tr <pt “Das demais vacinas, nenhuma foi inferior a 70%. Todas, com exceção da vacina do Butantan, tiveram efeitos colaterais de grau 3, os efeitos mais importantes quando se avalia uma vacina. A vacina do Butantan não teve efeito colateral de grau 3”, disse Dimas Covas. | 01:09 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Portuguese to English: "Of the other vaccines, none were less than 70%. All but butantan vaccine had grade 3 side effects, the most important effects when evaluating a vaccine. The Butantan vaccine had no grade 3 side effect," dimas Covas said. (MyMemory) [... want %more?] | 01:09 |
| de-facto | yeah unfortunately politics seem to play a role in the choice of vaccine origins | 01:09 |
| LjL | it's true that grade 3 effects were had in Pfizer and Moderna | 01:09 |
| de-facto | although imho only science should play a role | 01:09 |
| LjL | but also it's true that i can read about those effects in scientific papers, as well as in the FDA and MHRA reports (wish the EMA reported similarly) | 01:10 |
| LjL | i really don't like that "Q&A" thing that the EMA published | 01:10 |
| LjL | i don't want a FAQ, i want real information | 01:10 |
| LjL | when they approve a vaccine they should provide such information just like the FDA does | 01:10 |
| de-facto | tbh my "dream" vaccine still would be the original virus but in an attenuated, maybe even replication deficient form so attenuated but that would be quite difficult to achieve i guess (since it has not been done yet) | 01:11 |
| LjL | why though? | 01:11 |
| LjL | one thing that has been mentioned, uh... somewhere (i remember reading this point recently): | 01:12 |
| de-facto | because it could come as close as possible to a natural infection without the associated risks | 01:12 |
| LjL | q: if the actual virus can sometimes trigger autoimmune disease, won't a vaccine be able to do the same? a: maybe, but less likely with the S-protein vaccines since only antibodies to that particular protein are created, instead of random antibodies to the whole virus some of which may mimic human antigens | 01:13 |
| LjL | de-facto, or maybe with some of the associated risks, like this one | 01:13 |
| LjL | a natural infection doesn't seem to create such great immunity, imo | 01:13 |
| de-facto | it that was possible wtih not "killing it" (inactivation) but rather attenuate it to a point where it poses no thread anymore yet still teaches the immune system exactly all the properties of the wild type | 01:13 |
| LjL | i believe either Moderna or Pfizer or both create levels of neutralizing antibodies that are *higher* than in a real infection...? | 01:14 |
| de-facto | yes i think so | 01:14 |
| de-facto | and also only to the S-protein, hence not to the N-protein | 01:14 |
| LjL | well, unless i'm missing something i think i'd prefer something targeted yet powerful, over something that might create all sorts of antibodies including ones i don't really want... plus losing the ability to determine if i had COVID-19 by looking at antibodies | 01:15 |
| de-facto | yeah BioNtech wanted to screen for antibodies against the N-protein to determine the amount of asymptomatic infections in their phase III trial | 01:15 |
| de-facto | havent seen anything yet (but also have not searched yet) | 01:16 |
| LjL | de-facto, i think even aside from that, it will be useful in the future to be able to discriminate between actual infection and vaccine | 01:16 |
| LjL | not being able to do that might become a problem | 01:16 |
| LjL | say, in case you have long-COVID-compatible symptoms and want to verify | 01:16 |
| de-facto | very unlikely when already being vaccinated id assume | 01:17 |
| LjL | if you've had an inactivated/attenuated vaccines, your symptoms could be from long COVID, or from ME/CFS, or from being stressed, or from nothing, depending on the doctor who sees you | 01:17 |
| LjL | why would you assume that? | 01:17 |
| de-facto | low propability for vaccinated to get asymptomatic infection and then later symptoms from long covid | 01:17 |
| de-facto | because the infection never really "kicks in", it will be stopped very early | 01:18 |
| LjL | i'd prefer to see a study on that, over just assuming it | 01:18 |
| de-facto | by a highly directed and quickly neutralizing immune response (even if not sterilizing it probably will be asymptomatic) | 01:18 |
| LjL | (which is why i hope Pfizer will really do the N-protein thing instead of just using it as an excuse to avoid doing PCR) | 01:18 |
| de-facto | maybe they will and also with now millions getting it we probably soon will know if any of them ever will suffer from long covid | 01:20 |
| de-facto | although they dont get an antibody test prior to vaccination | 01:20 |
| de-facto | as the trial participants did | 01:20 |
| de-facto | https://twitter.com/houndcl/status/1343261002394198019 | 01:23 |
| de-facto | btw very interesting twitter profile https://twitter.com/houndcl | 01:24 |
| de-facto | "Informatics Leader at NCATS functional genomics lab | 01:24 |
| de-facto | @ncats_nih_gov | 01:24 |
| de-facto | #making_every_data_point_count #horribly_neutral #curiosity_driven_research (views≠employer) | 01:24 |
| de-facto | " | 01:24 |
| LjL | "1-dose doesn't seem to work. Lots of censored points. Must be interim analysis result" | 01:29 |
| LjL | what does this mean | 01:29 |
| LjL | "lots of censored points" specifically | 01:30 |
| de-facto | im not quite sure, its a screenshot from that video on https://www.hurriyet.com.tr/gundem/son-dakika-cinde-uretilen-koronavirus-asisiyla-ilgili-flas-gelisme-sonuclar-aciklandi-41697730 | 01:34 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Ivermectin shows clinical benefits in mild to moderate Covid19 disease: A randomised controlled double blind dose response study in Lagos. (82 votes) | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.05.21249131v1 | https://redd.it/krolk3 | 01:35 |
| de-facto | timecode 4:19 | 01:35 |
| de-facto | i cant understand spoken Turkish language | 01:36 |
| LjL | de-facto, that account you've linked retweeted a tweet by someone who co-authored this paper: https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m20-8137 | 01:43 |
| LjL | i bet you will love it ;) | 01:43 |
| de-facto | aaw again that, we will not get rid of this, the box of Pandora has been opened with starting that discussion | 01:48 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Nigeria: +1664 cases (now 94369), +5 deaths (now 1324) since 23 hours ago — Malawi: +227 cases (now 7337) since a day ago — St. Vin. and Gren.: +16 cases (now 149) since a day ago | 01:49 |
| de-facto | the question is not about modeling this on a macroscopic (logistics) level, thats easy, the real question is what actually will happen on a microscopic level (the immunologic implications as well as the selection pressure in partly immune, especially elderly) | 01:51 |
| de-facto | and this question only could be answered with a full blown trial with statistics comparable to the phase III trials we already have based our current vaccination schemes upon | 01:52 |
| de-facto | until such data is available, such concepts should not even be considered | 01:52 |
| LjL | how would you even figure out the selection pressure changes with "just" a phase 3 trial? | 01:53 |
| LjL | either it mutates in a bad way, or it doesn't | 01:53 |
| LjL | if it does, it probably goes out in the wild and you're screwed | 01:53 |
| LjL | if it doesn't, it doesn't | 01:53 |
| de-facto | and in time such a trial can deliver results we probably will have much more vaccine manufacturers approved on the marked and not have such severe shortage problems, hence imho we should opt for adhering to evidence based medicine and absolutely strictly stick to the tested vaccination schemes from the approval trials | 01:54 |
| de-facto | basically with every generation of viral replication under the selection pressure from a partly immune (but not yet neutralizing) immune system the probability for escaping mutants increases | 01:55 |
| de-facto | so its not like black and white | 01:56 |
| de-facto | hence if we have a vaccination scheme with 95% probability to end an infection chain we really should go with that and try to vaccinate as many people as possible in as short time as possible | 01:57 |
| de-facto | well ending the infection chain is less than 95% probability but still | 01:57 |
| de-facto | what i mean is that we should do everything to prevent the amount of viral replications happening under selection pressure | 01:58 |
| de-facto | and imho that would be 1) bring incidence down via NPIs (not vaccinations) 2) vaccinate as quickly as possible with the proven to be effective vaccination schemes from the trials 3) with herd immunity in place incidence will stay low hence also minimize the amount of viral generations under selection pressure and finally make incidence decline | 02:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Oxford vaccine rolled out to hundreds of GP sites in England → https://is.gd/KxO6Jq | 02:31 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Panama: +5186 cases (now 264956), +45 deaths (now 4283) since a day ago — Lesotho: +931 cases (now 4137), +8 deaths (now 73) since 4 days ago | 02:51 |
| LjL | Officials announced 51 new cases Thursday, bringing Hebei’s total to 90 since Sunday. Most of the cases have been in Shijiazhuang, the provincial capital that is due to host some events of next year’s Winter Olympics. https://apnews.com/article/international-news-pandemics-migrant-workers-coronavirus-pandemic-bangkok-0f53b86c5655342c077eaef1fdcde952 | 03:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19: Singapore confirms 31 new cases, 1 preliminarily positive for B117 strain → https://is.gd/45LHO6 | 03:32 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Dr. Anthony Fauci thinks UK COVID variant more widespread in US than known (10111 votes) | https://www.newsweek.com/anthony-fauci-u-k-covid-variant-more-widespread-u-s-1559215 | https://redd.it/krpe4d | 04:42 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for New Zealand: +2 cases (now 2188) since 2 days ago | 04:43 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid-19: Oxford vaccine rolled out to hundreds of GP sites in England → https://is.gd/QA29zY | 05:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Japan calls for Tokyo state of emergency declaration as COVID-19 cases surge → https://is.gd/QizTir | 05:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The coronavirus intensified a hunger crisis last year, but 2021 could be worse → https://is.gd/lL91mS | 05:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from This Week In Virology: TWiV 703: Does dose matter?: On this episode, a discussion of why modifying the dose schedule of the mRNA vaccines in the US is not a good idea, evidence that higher Ct values on hospital admission is associated with higher mortality, and dose-dependent response to SARS-CoV-2 infection of ferrets. → https://is.gd/ME7Ce3 | 06:11 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Serotonin is elevated in COVID-19-associated diarrhoea (83 votes) | https://gut.bmj.com/content/early/2021/01/04/gutjnl-2020-323542 | https://redd.it/ks4p0o | 06:13 |
| Brainstorm | New from ProPublica: Capitol Rioters Planned for Weeks in Plain Sight. The Police Weren’t Ready.: by Logan Jaffe , Lydia DePillis , Isaac Arnsdorf and J. David McSwane ProPublica is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates abuses of power. Sign up to receive our biggest stories as soon as they’re published. This story is part of an ongoing [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/TDYOPH | 06:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | Arsanerit: ((rhetorical question)) I know, was to support you | 06:46 |
| whytek | anybody awake? | 06:58 |
| whytek | i've been drinking quite some mezcal.. but this is IRC... Was just thinking about what happened in Europe in september after such a "normal" summer. | 06:59 |
| whytek | was it the schools? | 07:00 |
| whytek | They opened the damn schools. | 07:00 |
| whytek | surely I'm not the only one to consider that. | 07:01 |
| whytek | Is this an elephant in the room? | 07:01 |
| whytek | sorry, too tired and drunk to go through weeks of scroll back. | 07:03 |
| whytek | Everyone knew when I was a kid that schools passed on just about everything. | 07:03 |
| Brainstorm | New preprint: A novel computational approach to reconstruct SARS-CoV-2 infection dynamics through the inference of unsampled sources of infection by Deshan Perera et al, made available as preprint on 2021-01-06 at https://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2021.01.04.21249233 [... want %more?] | 07:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | USA mega superspreader event - on top of all the discusting rest | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | s.c.g. | 07:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whytek: schools for sure are a problem.but there's also seasonality which still isn'T completely understood yet | 07:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Health: Eye care amid covid 19: All you need to know → https://is.gd/qCDwNc | 07:27 |
| whytek | DocScrutinizer05, Yeah, was trying to figure out this dissonance... Germany had a reasonable warm summer... everyone partying in the park.. when autumn came, poeple starting going more inside they said. | 07:29 |
| whytek | but ireland had a shit summer | 07:30 |
| whytek | (as always) | 07:30 |
| whytek | yet... | 07:30 |
| whytek | back to school == 2nd wave, in both places. | 07:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Louisiana, United States: +6876 cases (now 333524), +46 deaths (now 7681) since a day ago — Virginia, United States: +5387 cases (now 377300), +35 deaths (now 5226) since a day ago — Iowa, United States: +2478 cases (now 290776), +61 deaths (now 4060) since a day ago — Tokyo, Japan: +1591 cases (now 66411), +8 deaths (now 611) since a day ago | 07:30 |
| whytek | so i start to doubt "seasonal" | 07:30 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whytek: basically along my line of questioning this seasonal effect. There are countries with winter sweeter than the summer in other countries, yet they pretty much all in sync entered 2nd wave | 07:41 |
| whytek | DocScrutinizer05, Yep.. (sobering here a little) so much seems hard to rationalise.. | 07:51 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: 'You don't want to end up like me': Florida man begs people to wear masks in a heartbreaking video from his hospital bed → https://is.gd/aHVM5l | 08:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the transcript of last Drosten podcast, sorry no idea how to direktly feed to google translate and provide the result https://www.ndr.de/nachrichten/info/coronaskript256.pdf | 08:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://translate.google.com/?sl=de&tl=en&text=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ndr.de%2Fnachrichten%2Finfo%2Fcoronaskript256.pdf&op=docs | 08:24 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Indonesia Islamic council aims for halal ruling before mass vaccination → https://is.gd/pKTmMp | 08:32 |
| Arsanerit | DocScrutinizer05: ok :) | 09:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | January 07, 2021: The WHO pages contain up-to-date and global information. Please refer to our Wiki for additional information. → https://is.gd/BjwWVw | 09:12 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Czechia: +17773 cases (now 794740), +185 deaths (now 12621) since 23 hours ago | 09:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Bayer, CureVac to 'join forces' on Covid-19 vaccine candidate: German pharmaceutical firms Bayer and CureVac said Thursday that they have joined forces in the development of CureVac's COVID-19 vaccine candidate. → https://is.gd/1VTeCG | 09:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: California hospitals prepping for grim COVID-19 choices: California hospitals struggling with a skyrocketing coronavirus surge are trying to prepare for the possibility that they may have to ration care for lack of staff and beds—and hoping they don't have to make that choice. → https://is.gd/XaX5tA | 09:50 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Japan to declare virus state of emergency in Tokyo region: Japan's government will declare a coronavirus state of emergency in the greater Tokyo area on Thursday, as media said the capital would again report a record daily number of infections. → https://is.gd/9T5SsE | 10:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | germany +26,391 (~5k less than a week before) - still highly uncertain data | 10:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Mexico reports record coronavirus deaths, cases: Mexico on Wednesday reported 1,165 coronavirus deaths and more than 13,000 additional cases, setting grim new records in one of the countries hardest hit by the pandemic. → https://is.gd/MjfgCG | 10:16 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Indonesia: +9321 cases (now 797723), +224 deaths (now 23520) since 22 hours ago — Estonia: +1084 cases (now 31751), +4 deaths (now 265) since 22 hours ago | 10:36 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: First Opinion: Opinion: Wastewater-based epidemiology: a 20-year journey may pay off for Covid-19 → https://is.gd/V1dKPl | 10:41 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Malaysia: +3027 cases (now 128465), +8 deaths (now 521) since a day ago — Germany: +26868 cases (now 1.8 million) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +3975 cases (now 474764), +48 deaths (now 8146) since 23 hours ago | 17:37 |
| de-facto | lol | 17:48 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): COVID-19 Preventive Behavior in African Americans → https://is.gd/j7KI2E | 17:49 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +91423 cases (now 2.9 million), +1815 deaths (now 78508) since 23 hours ago — Netherlands: +8819 cases (now 851547), +114 deaths (now 12088) since 16 hours ago — Canada: +7705 cases (now 629956), +143 deaths (now 16422) since 23 hours ago | 17:55 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China's Sinopharm vaccine 'most unsafe in world' with 73 side effects. → https://is.gd/DFdlX9 | 18:25 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Comoros: +55 cases (now 1050), +3 deaths (now 16) since 2 days ago | 18:26 |
| Jigsy | %cases UK | 18:26 |
| Brainstorm | Jigsy: In United Kingdom, there have been 2.9 million confirmed cases (4.3% of the population) and 78508 deaths (2.7% of cases) as of 31 minutes ago. 58.2 million tests were performed (5.0% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 18:26 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: At risk of extinction, black-footed ferrets get vaccinated for COVID-19 → https://is.gd/HJxBh4 | 18:38 |
| LjL | de-facto, sorry, atheistic Brainstorm broke and i had no spares so i had to replace it with a Muslim Brainstorm | 18:59 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China's Sinopharm vaccine 'most unsafe in world' with 73 side effects. → https://is.gd/DFdlX9 ← at least it's not Sinovac, romare might be unhappy with that :P | 19:00 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: NHS patients to receive life-saving COVID-19 treatments that could cut hospital time by 10 days (87 votes) | https://www.gov.uk/government/news/nhs-patients-to-receive-life-saving-covid-19-treatments-that-could-cut-hospital-time-by-10-days | https://redd.it/ksh9gc | 19:00 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: How to mitigate the impact of a lockdown on mental health: The COVID-19 pandemic is impacting people's mental health. But what helps and hinders people in getting through a lockdown? A new study led by researchers at the University of Basel addressed this question using data from 78 countries across the world. The results hint [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/GK4xPa | 19:02 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Experts tap into behavioral research to promote COVID-19 vaccination in the US: As the first doses of COVID-19 vaccines are being rolled out, it is still unclear whether enough Americans are willing to be vaccinated to allow the nation to return to normalcy. Many believe a key part of the equation lies in how effective vaccine [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/4cp692 | 19:14 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Lebanon: +4774 cases (now 204699), +16 deaths (now 1566) since a day ago — UAE: +2988 cases (now 221754), +5 deaths (now 694) since a day ago — Italy: +18416 cases (now 2.2 million), +414 deaths (now 77291) since a day ago — Malawi: +274 cases (now 7611), +4 deaths (now 203) since 17 hours ago | 19:15 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Brazilian study says Sinovac COVID-19 jab 78% effective: A vaccine candidate made by China's Sinovac is 78% effective in protecting against COVID-19, according to results of a study announced Thursday by Brazilian state health officials seeking federal approval of the shot. → https://is.gd/cr8oAv | 19:27 |
| LjL | de-facto, this is a bit dated but i just found it and it has some descriptive information of the main vaccine candidates as well as a table with all of them, plus general information about COVID immunity: https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(20)32137-1.pdf | 19:34 |
| de-facto | nice paper | 19:42 |
| de-facto | actually very nice one, have to read it in detail later | 19:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: US registering highest deaths yet from the coronavirus: The U.S. registered more COVID-19 deaths in a single day than ever before—nearly 3,900—on the very day the mob attack on the Capitol laid bare some of the same, deep political divisions that have hampered the battle against the pandemic. → https://is.gd/80tTrw | 19:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Study reveals how one antibody blocks dangerous effects of dengue virus infection, offering potential path to prevention: A team of researchers has discovered an antibody that blocks the ability of the dengue virus to cause disease in mice. The findings open the potential for developing effective treatments and designing a [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/kkCh4x | 20:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Mexican president says Biden told him Mexico handling pandemic better than U.S. → https://is.gd/N6gvZk | 20:17 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +62 deaths (now 8171) since 20 hours ago | 20:17 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +42360 cases (now 2.0 million), +245 deaths (now 51675) since 2 days ago | 20:24 |
| numz | J #laquadrature | 20:31 |
| romare | LjL: oh shit :( | 20:37 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: Capitol insurrection was recipe for COVID superspreader event → https://is.gd/4DOHyS | 20:41 |
| LjL | romare, that's not the vaccine you're taking, it's another one, and it's just one Chinese doctor saying that (he was later censored). i do think it shows that it would be better to have actual clinical data published in an international scientific journal, though | 20:44 |
| LjL | romare, does your father have access to the leaflet with the side effects etc? | 20:44 |
| ubLIX[m] | xsperry: That is a dark and counter productive road you are embarked on. Explaining why is off topic for this channel, as was your ejaculation ("xsperry | jews being privileged... "). In not applying a permanent ban without further comment, I strain credulity in order to give you the benefit of the doubt of not being a native English speaker. You could do worse than immerse yourself in the literature of Israeli authored | 20:47 |
| ubLIX[m] | political self criticism for assistance in acquiring the arts of civilised discourse. I am now prejudiced against your remaining in this channel. | 20:47 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Atlantic: The Pandemic Has Never Been This Bad: Editor’s Note: The Atlantic is making vital coverage of the coronavirus available to all readers. Find the collection here . → https://is.gd/craTUB | 20:54 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: California sees two-day record of coronavirus deaths: California health authorities reported Thursday a record two-day total of 1,042 coronavirus deaths as many hospitals strain under unprecedented caseloads. → https://is.gd/DSd6AF | 21:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Spain hits two million virus cases: Spain's total number of coronavirus infections surged past two million on Thursday as cases jumped following the Christmas holidays, government figures showed on Thursday. → https://is.gd/xfHxv8 | 21:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Asian nations toughen virus curbs as Europe fights new strain: Asian countries stepped up their fight against the coronavirus on Thursday to suppress a contagion they had previously tamed, as warnings grew in Europe over a new fast-spreading variant. → https://is.gd/16fxTS | 21:31 |
| CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Moderna CEO says vaccine likely to protect for 'couple of years' (10029 votes) | https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-moderna-vaccine/moderna-ceo-says-vaccine-likely-to-protect-for-couple-of-years-idUSKBN29C0YK | https://redd.it/ksd9yq | 21:49 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Monaco: +40 cases (now 1018) since a day ago | 21:57 |
| LjL | romare, see CoronaBot above (of course, not the same vaccine, and just an educated guess), as to yesterday's question | 22:03 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Cooling vests alleviate perceptual heat strain perceived by COVID-19 nurses: Wearing cooling vests during a COVID-19 shift ensures that nurses experience less heat during their work. During their shifts, nurses wear protective clothing for three hours in a row, during which the temperature can rise to as much as 36 degrees. The [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/7JodaX | 22:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Israel heads for tightened lockdown: Israel's parliament on Thursday approved new restrictions to tighten its coronavirus lockdown as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced additional vaccine procurements he said could result in near complete innoculation by March. → https://is.gd/Xen8q4 | 22:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Listen: Biden’s plans for biopharma, a CES preview, & the next phase of the pandemic: What does a Democratic Senate portend for the drug industry? Is software eating health care? And can Covid-19 vaccines withstand viral mutations? Find out on the latest episode of "The… → https://is.gd/F5p0WK | 23:21 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +276 deaths (now 66841) since 21 hours ago | 23:30 |
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