bin_bash | yeah on the one hand im glad they got it, but on the other i am a bit skeptical of emergency authorizations in general | 00:00 |
---|---|---|
LjL | bin_bash, my parents are between 70 and 80 and the day doesn't feel close at all (or even vaguely known) when they'll get vaccinated. the EU isn't exactly shining in the eyes of people, despite media being like "the EU went to the next level in the way it's handling this in a united way with the vaccines and the recovery funds"... yeah, except the vaccines aren't coming, and how to bind use of the recovery funds has broken up my government | 00:00 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>"conditional market authorization" takes longer than the "emergency use authorization"<< that been what? 2 weeks? MEH! | 00:01 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I'd rather question why a proper conditional approval was almost as _fast_ as an emergency approval | 00:02 |
LjL | well fact remains, the US and UK are vaccinating much faster than the EU, and they have at least two vaccines approved instead of just one | 00:04 |
DocScrutinizer05 | we also have two, no? | 00:04 |
LjL | different strategies, but for now, the EU one isn't looking like a winning one, especially with the variants now threatening to take the R well above 1 | 00:04 |
LjL | DocScrutinizer05, Italy has only received Pfizer | 00:05 |
LjL | i don't know about other countries, i thought only Pfizer was being used in the EU for now | 00:05 |
DocScrutinizer05 | nope, moderna is shipping afaik | 00:05 |
LjL | i wasn't aware of that, or i forgot. but the EU (or at least Italy) has ordered a comparatively very small number of Moderna doses compared to others | 00:05 |
LjL | the other day, TV was suggesting that we'll be looking at Sputnik and Sinovac to fill in the gaps. that doesn't make me feel great | 00:06 |
de-facto | btw have you read about the moderna trial of the Moderna one being effective with limited neutralization against the SA variant even and that they plan to do an update to their mRNA? | 00:06 |
de-facto | i linked it above | 00:06 |
LjL | yes | 00:07 |
de-facto | .title https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-retains-neutralizing-activity-against | 00:07 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From investors.modernatx.com: Moderna COVID-19 Vaccine Retains Neutralizing Activity Against Emerging Variants First Identified in the U.K. and the Republic of South Africa | Moderna, Inc. | 00:07 |
LjL | i've also read comments that it's bit of a mixed message. they want to show that their vaccine still works, but in practice they're thinking of having a "third booster" to properly deal with the variants | 00:07 |
de-facto | "While the Company expects these levels of neutralizing antibodies to be protective, pseudovirus neutralizing antibody titers were approximately 6-fold lower relative to prior variants. These lower titers may suggest a potential risk of earlier waning of immunity to the new B.1.351 strains." | 00:08 |
de-facto | "the Company is advancing an emerging variant booster candidate (mRNA-1273.351) against the B.1.351 variant first identified in the Republic of South Africa. The Company is advancing mRNA-1273.351 into preclinical studies and a Phase 1 study in the U.S. to evaluate the immunological benefit of boosting with strain-specific spike proteins." | 00:08 |
LjL | i'm paraphrasing comments, not my own opinion, but it seems unfortunately reasonable given the much reduced activity against that strain | 00:08 |
de-facto | its very good that they do that (not only for their stock price) | 00:09 |
de-facto | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.25.427948v1 <-- the paper with details | 00:10 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: mRNA-1273 vaccine induces neutralizing antibodies against spike mutants from global SARS-CoV-2 variants | bioRxiv | 00:10 |
LjL | well, i was really hoping for better protection against current variants. if it's already shaky on current variants, what will happen as more variants develop? (and they will, there's already this study on the "californian variant", and similar sets of mutations are just coming up in various places) | 00:10 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I heard a re-certification of VoC-adapted mRNA vaccines is ultrafast or not needed at all? o.O | 00:10 |
LjL | maybe it was an overoptimistic hope | 00:10 |
LjL | i'm not often overoptimistic, but i just want to see an end to this at some point | 00:10 |
de-facto | yeah PEI was asked about that too, they said something about template approval, not sure what exactly that means, but probably something like they only would have to demonstrate that the changes behave in the expected way or such? | 00:11 |
Brainstorm | New from NPR: South Dakota Health Leader On How The State Has Gotten Its Vaccine Out: South Dakota has administered roughly 80,000 of the 106,000 doses it has received so far, or 75%. Dr. Shankar Kurra in Rapid City says a centralized system helped for coordination. → https://is.gd/En4hrp | 00:11 |
de-facto | what exactly that means in practice i am not so sure | 00:11 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I hope they will move to a mixed mRNA cocktail in Moderna and BNT | 00:12 |
de-facto | eventually we have to get MASSIVELY more production capacity and a tight feedback loop rolling that constantly integrate the latest sequences of concern into a polyclonal vaccine | 00:13 |
DocScrutinizer05 | for the first and 2nd shot, not a 3rd booster | 00:13 |
de-facto | yeah but we dont have nearly enough production cap to even deliver a monoclonal (Wuhan S-protein variant only) to satisfy demands by many orders of magnitude | 00:14 |
de-facto | how about the updates then? | 00:14 |
de-facto | DocScrutinizer05, that was exactly one of my proposals earlier, "bruteforce" new escape mutants in cell cultures under selection pressure of a representative mix of current prevalent antibodies to get their sequences and integrate them into vaccines prior to their occurrence in the wild | 00:15 |
de-facto | i am still not sure if selection behaves deterministic enough for that, yet the independent occurrence of variants would suggest something like that (e.g. N501Y appearing several times more or less independently) | 00:16 |
de-facto | or that Y453F mink variant also occurred several times independently | 00:17 |
LjL | i can't remember all these numbers | 00:17 |
de-facto | how about the new ones E484K et al? | 00:17 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I guess they could use a "racemic" approach in production | 00:17 |
raccoon_dog | An equal proportion? | 00:18 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >>"bruteforce" new escape mutants in cell cultures<< smart! :-) | 00:18 |
LjL | smart, in a level 4 lab | 00:18 |
LjL | so smart but not doable everywhere | 00:18 |
DocScrutinizer05 | raccoon_dog: yep, mix the mRNA variants, then multiply | 00:19 |
LjL | but i agree it sounds like a possible way ahead in the longer term | 00:19 |
de-facto | both SARS-CoV-2 and SARS-CoV-1 have a proofreading capability related to the NonStructuralProteins-14 and NSP-10, so for SARS-CoV-1 it was possible to destroy that proofreading cap hence increase mutation rate by 20-fold | 00:19 |
raccoon_dog | And the mutations you get, are those the same ones you'd encounter later in the wild? | 00:19 |
LjL | that's the idea, there would be no guarantee | 00:19 |
de-facto | so maybe if something like that also was possible for SARS-CoV-2 one may gain some time advantage from that in cell cultures for "bruteforcing" escape mutants? i am not sure if that is possible though | 00:19 |
LjL | but they'd be subject to similar selective pressures | 00:19 |
de-facto | probably the normal mutation rate already is sufficient if the antibody titers are always kept below a neutralizing concentration | 00:20 |
LjL | de-facto, i'd *really* want to make sure they do that in BSL4 facilities though. the fact it mutates *slowly* has so far worked in our favor (at least until the vaccines were almost ready and we were like "yay" and then "oh crap") | 00:20 |
LjL | if a version of this virus without proofreading abilities ended up in the wild, *shudder* | 00:21 |
bin_bash | but first BSL4 facilities need to be overhauled | 00:21 |
de-facto | raccoon_dog, thats a very good question, i am not sure if the mutations are predictable enough to allow for all of that to be useful | 00:21 |
bin_bash | otheriwse it's just a matter of time before another pathogen gets leaked by accident | 00:21 |
raccoon_dog | de-facto: Right. | 00:21 |
raccoon_dog | bin_bash: One with possibly a much higher mortality rate than this one, much more infections, too. :S | 00:21 |
DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: absolutely. I'd oppose even going that route at all | 00:22 |
DocScrutinizer05 | there are other means to increase mutation rate | 00:22 |
DocScrutinizer05 | reversible means | 00:22 |
bin_bash | raccoon_dog: yep it'll happen | 00:22 |
bin_bash | this isnt even the big one | 00:22 |
raccoon_dog | Nowhere near it, yeah. | 00:23 |
bin_bash | it's sick that facing this reality is considered "political" | 00:23 |
bin_bash | doesnt matter where the lab is, it needs to be fully secure. there are bsl4 labs in the US that arent | 00:23 |
Brainstorm | New from Bloom Lab: @jbloom_lab: R to @jbloom_lab: Here are impacts of mutations at some key sites on REGN-COV2 antibodies (REGN10933 and REGN01987), LY-CoV555, and LY-CoV016:E484: mutations reduce binding by LY-CoV555 and to lesser extent REGN10933, little effect on REGN01987 or LY-CoV016. (5/n) → https://is.gd/olabwz | 00:23 |
bin_bash | it's not a chinese-specific problem | 00:23 |
bin_bash | i think a lot of ther governmental corruption makes it more difficult and more susceptible but plenty of places in the US have made mistakes to | 00:24 |
bin_bash | too* | 00:24 |
LjL | think of how comparatively trivial a problem Chernobyl was in comparison to what happened here (assuming it's a lab leak, hence comparing human accidents) | 00:24 |
de-facto | LjL, i am not that scared about the proofreading deficient occuring in the wild, if that was such a big advantage it already would have happened | 00:25 |
bin_bash | LjL: yeah | 00:25 |
de-facto | i think it even could make it dysfunctional | 00:25 |
de-facto | nsp14 is highly conserved for some reason | 00:25 |
de-facto | but yeah sure it should be done in BSL-3 anyhow | 00:26 |
DocScrutinizer05 | there's a name for that in cosmology, sth like "the technological bottleneck" which will allow a civilization to extinguish itself | 00:26 |
de-facto | the great filter | 00:27 |
de-facto | fermi paradox | 00:27 |
de-facto | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Filter | 00:27 |
bin_bash | offtopic but it's not even a paradox idk why it gets called that | 00:29 |
LjL | lots of paradoxes aren't | 00:30 |
bin_bash | that's the most famous one that I can think of off-hand | 00:33 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I meant this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_catastrophic_risk#Anthropogenic still missing the correct term for it. I *think* it was "technological bottleneck" | 00:33 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Guernsey: +38 cases (now 359) since a day ago | 00:33 |
DocScrutinizer05 | the cause for the question to aliens >>how did you manage to survive?<< | 00:35 |
LjL | my understanding is that the technological bottleneck, or similar terms, is a possible "implementation" of the great filter | 00:35 |
Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Comment] The need for a global COVID-19 maternal immunisation research plan: There is evidence that COVID-19 threatens maternal and perinatal health. Pregnant women, especially in the second half of pregnancy, are at increased risk of complications—eg, severe pneumonia, hospitalisations, admission to intensive care [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/PBL0GX | 00:36 |
DocScrutinizer05 | zje idea being: the the more technology we invent, the higher the risk we will kil us with it | 00:36 |
LjL | the great filter says, since we haven't heard any aliens, then maybe at some point along the way from "no life" to "intelligent life capable of colonizing the universe" always something happens that makes life destroy itself | 00:36 |
LjL | at which point that happens, we don't know | 00:36 |
de-facto | i think its not nuclear war or such that is likely to cause an extinction level event, its may very well be a pathogen though, hence i think improving our capabilities in terms of biosecurity is very important and this pandemic is an excellent chance to learn and improve | 00:36 |
de-facto | btw its also an excellent motivation to become a multi-planetary species | 00:38 |
DocScrutinizer05 | that's when we got behind the bottleneck. That'S why it's called bottleneck and not... dead end | 00:39 |
de-facto | i really think the importance to use this chance to learn and improve bio-security capabilities from this pandemic can not be underestimated | 00:40 |
DocScrutinizer05 | and very figuratively we're out of the bottle then ;-D | 00:40 |
de-facto | not because of SARS-CoV-2, we will get that under control, but because of the future in general | 00:40 |
DocScrutinizer05 | obviously | 00:41 |
DocScrutinizer05 | we should rethink our complete security concept | 00:42 |
de-facto | *can not be overestimated | 00:42 |
raccoon_dog | > we will get that under control | 00:42 |
raccoon_dog | Will we? | 00:42 |
DocScrutinizer05 | of course | 00:43 |
de-facto | yes i think so | 00:43 |
raccoon_dog | I mean, I certainly hope so. | 00:43 |
raccoon_dog | And I want it to be true. | 00:43 |
de-facto | and we will learn a lot on the way | 00:43 |
DocScrutinizer05 | really, worst case it won't be a tenth of the black plague, and in ten years we forgot about 2020 | 00:44 |
DocScrutinizer05 | we WILL survive this, as species | 00:44 |
de-facto | this one yes | 00:44 |
raccoon_dog | Here's the thing, though. | 00:44 |
DocScrutinizer05 | yes THIS one | 00:44 |
raccoon_dog | Surviving a pandemic as a species can just as well mean "there are two fertile individuals left alive". | 00:45 |
de-facto | hehe better be one of those two then :D | 00:45 |
raccoon_dog | I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but "surviving something as a species" has that as the minimum. | 00:45 |
de-facto | actually it would be a problem, because only two is not enough genetic diversity | 00:45 |
raccoon_dog | Well, yeah. | 00:46 |
DocScrutinizer05 | as I said, it won't get anywhere near that | 00:46 |
de-facto | i think they estimated how many would be needed to colonialize Mars, i dont remember exactly anymore, was it like 50k or such? | 00:46 |
raccoon_dog | To have a healthy genetic diversity? | 00:47 |
raccoon_dog | Or what. | 00:47 |
DocScrutinizer05 | a simple look at numbers tells us this virus has no potential to kill more than maybe 10% of population | 00:47 |
raccoon_dog | Those are the people it kills, though. Then there are the people with potentially permanent lung damage. | 00:48 |
de-facto | yeah there is a minimum for a species to survive as healthy genetic pool of diversity | 00:48 |
de-facto | i dont know the exact numbers | 00:48 |
raccoon_dog | I see. | 00:48 |
de-facto | if we would have compartmentalized bio-security probably one of such compartments would survive (depending on minimum transmission times between them) | 00:50 |
LjL | all business no play | 00:57 |
pigughs | Monday health officials announced a case of the variant found in South Africa had been recorded in New Zealand in a returned traveler who had been released from hotel quarantine after twice testing negative. Apparently just found in Minnesota also | 01:00 |
DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: now mainstream news have >><65 problems. AZ denies<< | 01:00 |
Brainstorm | New from NPR: Gorilla Gets Monoclonal Antibody Therapy For COVID-19: An older silverback gorilla in San Diego, Calif., received an array of treatments after it and others in the troop contracted the coronavirus. The therapy came from a supply meant for non-humans. → https://is.gd/XLKb6U | 01:00 |
LjL | DocScrutinizer05, well someone was bound to pick it up, since it was on Reuters... but is there some more clarity on what the sources are? | 01:01 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I read "Bild and $someothernewspaper tabloids" or whatever | 01:02 |
DocScrutinizer05 | BILD is a pile of BS newspaper | 01:02 |
LjL | yes but it was Reuters saying that | 01:02 |
LjL | Reuters was just reporting from a German tabloid | 01:02 |
LjL | but then if something is on Reuters it will be certainly be picked up by mainstream media | 01:02 |
DocScrutinizer05 | it's all maximum obscure | 01:02 |
raccoon_dog | ... But Reuters is a news agency. | 01:02 |
raccoon_dog | And if a news agency has that. | 01:03 |
raccoon_dog | Then eventually everyone will. | 01:03 |
raccoon_dog | It's like Associated Press. | 01:03 |
LjL | that's what i'm saying raccoon_dog | 01:03 |
raccoon_dog | Yes. | 01:03 |
de-facto | there see DocScrutinizer05 said it too Bild is toilet paper | 01:03 |
raccoon_dog | LjL: That's ... not good. :/ | 01:04 |
LjL | so i'm not surprised it's been picked up, but i hope the fact it's been picked up will make someone eventually figure out what the source for this claim is | 01:04 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I still recall the Datex-P username and password of Reuters' account back from 1985 ;-P | 01:04 |
raccoon_dog | It does make me wonder why Reuters are using a German tabloid as a source. | 01:04 |
raccoon_dog | I'd have thought their journalistic standards were a bit higher ... | 01:04 |
LjL | meh | 01:05 |
DocScrutinizer05 | well Reuters is just an aggregator, they're supposed to cover this. They basically don't filter | 01:06 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I doubt Reuters has many journalists | 01:07 |
DocScrutinizer05 | my take on it | 01:08 |
raccoon_dog | I'm not sure what "aggregator" means in this context, but my understanding was that a news agency has their journalist (who may work part time for them) go out and collect material and then type up the article. This is a basic, more or less just-the-facts article which is then sold to news outlets who may or may put their spin on it. | 01:09 |
raccoon_dog | I thought this was how a news agency worked. | 01:09 |
raccoon_dog | may or may not* | 01:09 |
DocScrutinizer05 | not sure, Partially for sure, but then they also feed through all the news from other media as well | 01:10 |
de-facto | they never ever provide sources, i really hate that about them | 01:11 |
sanehatter | DocScrutinizer05, about reuters, "It employs some 2,500 journalists and 600 photojournalists in about 200 locations worldwide." | 01:11 |
DocScrutinizer05 | ok, thanks for fixing my idea in this regard | 01:11 |
sanehatter | news agencies like AFP, AP, reuters have journalists all around the world and they write news that smaller news outlets subscribe to for republication | 01:12 |
DocScrutinizer05 | anyway this was tagged "from BILD" | 01:12 |
LjL | Reuters is a *large* company | 01:13 |
DocScrutinizer05 | so you need to "ask" BILD where from they got this "info" | 01:13 |
raccoon_dog | sanehatter: Right. | 01:15 |
raccoon_dog | That was my understanding as well. | 01:15 |
DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: sure they are large, but nevertheless I can't recall a simgle journalistic revelation where they been mentioned as one of the co-authors | 01:15 |
sanehatter | DocScrutinizer05, they have exclusive stories on a daily basis on their website | 01:16 |
DocScrutinizer05 | never heard of one | 01:16 |
LjL | that's because they sell them | 01:17 |
LjL | they don't routinely get public-facing attribution | 01:17 |
LjL | every news source makes it look like it's their own thing, they certainly don't say "GO TO ROUTERS TO FIND MORE OF THESE RIGHT WHEN THEY COME OUT" | 01:18 |
DocScrutinizer05 | then it would still mention "Reuters" in the authorship. I never heard "Minister X told in an interview with Reuters that blablabla..." | 01:18 |
DocScrutinizer05 | whatever, this was BILD | 01:19 |
DocScrutinizer05 | Reuters is tangential here | 01:19 |
raccoon_dog | Right. And BILD is a so-so source, yes? | 01:20 |
sanehatter | DocScrutinizer05, https://www.reuters.com/search/news?blob=exclusive&sortBy=date&dateRange=all <- the first page of results are all from today for example | 01:20 |
DocScrutinizer05 | Bullshit Is Literally 'Dis | 01:20 |
raccoon_dog | Hah! Nice one. | 01:21 |
raccoon_dog | Yeah, I see. | 01:21 |
de-facto | .tite https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext | 01:21 |
raccoon_dog | So I guess we can take it with a grain of salt. | 01:21 |
LjL | but meanwhile, someone already made a fake post on worldnews <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: AstraZeneca vaccine found to only protect the elderly 8%, not acceptable to use in that group of people → https://is.gd/1gqLsy | 01:21 |
LjL | (no need to click, that's Bild, in german) | 01:21 |
LjL | (already reported it as non-english, but more of them will come) | 01:21 |
raccoon_dog | I saw that, LjL, but before seeing that I saw the refutation from AZ themselves. | 01:22 |
raccoon_dog | So fortunately I was like *rolls eyes* | 01:22 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, from what, that tweet? because i don't have a "real" source for the refutation either... | 01:22 |
raccoon_dog | o.o | 01:22 |
LjL | i mean, what i read was basically "AstraZeneca refutes claim of 8% blah blah" | 01:23 |
LjL | i had never heard the claim before | 01:23 |
de-facto | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext | 01:23 |
LjL | and i also don't know where AZ actually refuted it | 01:23 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Safety and efficacy of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine (AZD1222) against SARS-CoV-2: an interim analysis of four randomised controlled trials in Brazil, South Africa, and the UK - The Lancet | 01:23 |
LjL | except on a copypasted image in a tweet (copypasted from where? dunno) | 01:23 |
raccoon_dog | LjL: https://globalnews.ca/news/7598547/astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine-reports-incorrect/ | 01:23 |
raccoon_dog | I don't know how trustworthy this is, mind. | 01:23 |
de-facto | at a quick scroll i could not see them doing separate analysis for the age groups there | 01:23 |
LjL | de-facto, convenient | 01:24 |
de-facto | LjL, what was the other link where we talked about their table layout? it was some UK gov site afair | 01:24 |
de-facto | they had some more details there right? | 01:24 |
LjL | yes, the MHRA approval. there is also a PDF version without those table issues | 01:24 |
LjL | let's see if i'm lucky | 01:24 |
LjL | %links MHRA astrazeneca | 01:25 |
Brainstorm | LjL, Sorry, nothing found. Try with broader keywords | 01:25 |
LjL | no luck for me | 01:25 |
de-facto | %links AZD1222 | 01:25 |
Brainstorm | de-facto, https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20 (Safety and immunogenicity of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine against SARS-CoV-2: a preliminary report of a phase 1/2, single-blind, randomised controlled trial)31604-4/fulltext), encouraging preliminary results from the Oxford/AstraZeneca adenovirus-vectored vaccine, showing an acceptable safety profile and [... want %more?] | 01:25 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid: Curfew riots hit Netherlands for third night → https://is.gd/kwj83s | 01:25 |
de-facto | %more | 01:25 |
Brainstorm | de-facto, [...] unit, invasive mechanical ventilation—and death from COVID-19 compared with age-matched non-pregnant women.1–3 Existing evidence also suggests that pregnant women with COVID-19 are at higher risk of having a preterm delivery and that their neonates are three times more likely to be admitted to hospital than those born to mothers without COVID-19. → https://paste.ee/p/mHhDp | 01:25 |
Brainstorm | de-facto, [...] strong immune response after a booster, while https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/07/20/new-data-on-the-oxford-az-vaccine (Derek Lowe's "In The Pipeline" blog provides a critical commentary) on it; in November 2020 https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20 (Safety and immunogenicity of ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 [...] → https://paste.ee/p/9fec4 | 01:25 |
LjL | i'll grep logs | 01:25 |
de-facto | probably around 30 Dec or such? when they got approved in the uk | 01:26 |
LjL | de-facto, it was this i think https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/regulatory-approval-of-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca/information-for-healthcare-professionals-on-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca but this is not the PDF version | 01:26 |
DocScrutinizer05 | raccoon_dog: got another nice one for you. The tag of everyone burying their face in a BILD in subway: "Brain Is Likely Dead" ;-D | 01:28 |
raccoon_dog | DocScrutinizer05: Lol | 01:28 |
LjL | de-facto, it does say "Efficacy and safety data are currently limited in individuals ≥65 years of age (see sections 4.8 and 5.1). No dosage adjustment is required." | 01:29 |
de-facto | yes i think that was it that a b table i remember | 01:29 |
LjL | so if nothing else, AZ's rebuttal of "100% of adults showed immune response!" is misleading | 01:29 |
LjL | immune response != not getting COVID | 01:29 |
de-facto | yes of course | 01:30 |
LjL | so i'd like their "not true!" to be a bit better established as not true, honestly | 01:30 |
de-facto | immune response just means they have measured something, not if its protective or not | 01:30 |
de-facto | EMA for sure got the raw data of all those | 01:31 |
de-facto | under non-disclosure probably | 01:31 |
DocScrutinizer05 | quite possible there is something hiding there. Wasn't it AZ who got that flawed 62% -> 90% = 70% study? | 01:35 |
DocScrutinizer05 | or was that JJ? | 01:36 |
DocScrutinizer05 | can't remember | 01:36 |
Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Change badly readable link to MHRA page that also links to the better… → https://is.gd/B7ZKEJ | 01:37 |
DocScrutinizer05 | anyway AZ seems a pretty shady company, see their cutback on delivery for EU | 01:37 |
de-facto | hmm nothing about age group separated protection from symptomatic covid in there | 01:38 |
de-facto | DocScrutinizer05, AZ yes | 01:39 |
LjL | de-facto, the PDF is at https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/951851/uk-clean-spc-covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-reg174.pdf with much better-looking tables | 01:39 |
LjL | i also updated the links as you can see, %links mhra will show it next time | 01:39 |
LjL | DocScrutinizer05, it was AZ | 01:39 |
de-facto | yeah indeed they look better | 01:40 |
LjL | anyway, Sanofi are delaying their own adenovirus vaccine because it pretty much doesn't work on people over 55 | 01:40 |
LjL | so i wouldn't be *incredibly* surprised if AZ turned out to be similar, and they just made it non-apparent in the data | 01:40 |
de-facto | well according to the lancet paper we dont have any data for half dose full dose schemes in any age over 55 at all | 01:41 |
de-facto | hence it was full dose full dose for all of those | 01:41 |
LjL | de-facto, but then eventually it was approved at full dose anyway... | 01:42 |
de-facto | https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)32661-1/fulltext table 1 | 01:42 |
de-facto | was it? is the approval about full dose -> full dose? | 01:42 |
LjL | urr | 01:42 |
LjL | i seem to remember that way | 01:42 |
LjL | but i also thought Moderna wasn't approved in the EU | 01:42 |
de-facto | coudl be i dont know | 01:42 |
LjL | so i'm not very confident with my memory | 01:43 |
de-facto | moderna got approved on jan 6th | 01:43 |
LjL | my logs seem to indicate it was approved as full dose | 01:44 |
LjL | but i'm still reading some past discussions | 01:45 |
de-facto | hmmm idk id rather say that this phase III trial does not give us appropriate data for low dose / high dose for any age over 55, and we know the high dose / high dose scheme did not work very well | 01:45 |
LjL | anyway... if the half-dose+full-dose scheme didn't have any >55, while the other one DID, then wouldn't the fact the former gave 90% efficacy and the latter just 62% indicate potentially disastrous efficacy on >55? | 01:45 |
de-facto | we also know that it works better in the young, hence we really would need low dose / full dose in the age > 55 or 65 group | 01:46 |
LjL | also i'll remind you and myself | 01:46 |
LjL | freenode/##covid-19/2020-12-08.log:[20:25:58] <LjL> de-facto, the lower end of the confidence interval for people who took two full doses is below 50% (45%ish). that's the number that worries me, unless and until we figure out what makes the half-dose+full-dose group better, for which they *admitted* they need another trial | 01:46 |
LjL | i kind of want to stress here that they had seemed to intend to want to run another trial because this was such a mess | 01:46 |
LjL | in the end they said "naaah" | 01:46 |
LjL | i have honestly lost any confidence i had | 01:46 |
de-facto | well i want to know how low dose / full dose works in age > 65 | 01:47 |
de-facto | at east that part in the trial with 18-55 of LD/SD gave ~90% in COV002? | 01:48 |
Brainstorm | Updates for France: +5669 cases (now 3.1 million) since 22 hours ago | 01:48 |
de-facto | *at least | 01:48 |
LjL | 2020-12-30.log:[20:01:39] <LjL> de-facto, i think they should insist with AZ about making sense of this half-dose vs full-dose mess. they can't just swipe it under the rug and pretend they didn't make those claims before, and now just go ahead with "it's 70% effective, forget what we said before" | 01:49 |
LjL | this is making me think we had eventually understood they'd use full dose | 01:49 |
de-facto | hopefully they kept track of the ones that received it in the uk so no further time is wasted with another full trial | 01:49 |
LjL | but i am not finding an explicit statement of that | 01:49 |
de-facto | cant they just integrate those that received it now in the UK into their trial data and somehow complete it with that? they just would have to get a control group somehow | 01:50 |
de-facto | probably difficult to get a control group now, especially since now the elderly could receive real protection | 01:51 |
de-facto | hmmm | 01:51 |
LjL | i think we should concentrate on ramping up Pfizer a lot | 01:52 |
LjL | we can't have a sketchy vaccine with 70% protection *maybe*, maybe really less, when we are also getting variants that escape them | 01:52 |
LjL | forget that, it won't get us anywhere near herd immunity | 01:52 |
de-facto | yes but the AZ one is important too, it does not need the cold supply chain | 01:52 |
de-facto | if i was offered to get it tomorrow i probably would take it too at the LD/SD schema | 01:54 |
de-facto | if it works better in the young (we dont know that) so why not use it for the young then (15-55)? | 01:56 |
LjL | i don't think i have any reason to believe the 90% from that schema is anything but a fluke | 01:56 |
de-facto | yeah thats what i would like to know too | 01:56 |
de-facto | btw their trials were in those countries were we now have the new variants, UK, SA and Brazil (but thats probably unrelated) | 01:58 |
dTal | I agree about Pfizer | 01:59 |
dTal | It's a politically and economically charged situation but hell, Pfizer wins and we don't have time for half measures | 01:59 |
dTal | let's get 95% effective vaccines into everyone | 02:00 |
dTal | also, what UK is doing terrifies me | 02:00 |
dTal | Half doses for everyone is a disaster | 02:00 |
dTal | like not finishing your course of antibiotics | 02:00 |
dTal | a breeding ground for mutations that will escape vaccination | 02:00 |
LjL | de-facto, exactly and only those three countries? | 02:00 |
raccoon_dog | ... the UK are doing that? O.O | 02:01 |
dTal | raccoon_dog, yeah | 02:01 |
LjL | de-facto, i think you kind of said yourself that nothing would be better to breed new mutation that a vaccine that half-works? | 02:01 |
dTal | in practical terms | 02:01 |
LjL | (well, or maybe someone else did) | 02:01 |
raccoon_dog | dTal: Jesus. :/ | 02:01 |
dTal | you're supposed to have a booster after 3 weeks but they're now saying upwards of 12 weeks | 02:02 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Moderna begins work on booster to protect against South African variant | Coronavirus → https://is.gd/KM8MTp | 02:02 |
LjL | so if it was actually trialed in exactly those three countries, honestly, i'm not sure i'd go "probably unrelated" | 02:02 |
de-facto | LjL, yeah well theoretically yes | 02:02 |
dTal | most people who've had one shot don't even have a second one schedules | 02:02 |
LjL | was it not trialed in India, where they produced a lot of it? | 02:02 |
bin_bash | yes the UK may very well be dooming the world with its half-cocked scheme | 02:03 |
bin_bash | theyre better off not vaccinating anyone | 02:03 |
bin_bash | than giving everyone a half dose | 02:03 |
dTal | LjL, beware of common cause correlation - maybe those countries have good testing infrastructure or something, and that's why vaccine testing was done AND why new variants were discovered there | 02:03 |
bin_bash | it's so infuriating | 02:03 |
de-facto | the lancet said COV001 (UK) COV002 (UK) COV003 (Brazil) COV005 (South Africa) | 02:03 |
raccoon_dog | It's psychologically messed up. People will go out thinking their half-vaccination is as good as a full dose, and voilà, we have a bazillion new variants. | 02:04 |
raccoon_dog | Why are they doing that? | 02:04 |
raccoon_dog | Like. | 02:04 |
dTal | to extend supplies | 02:04 |
raccoon_dog | To ration. | 02:04 |
dTal | they reckon it's better to give twice as many people poor immunity | 02:04 |
raccoon_dog | I see. | 02:04 |
raccoon_dog | Yes -- poor immunity that'll make them think they can go out and about. Jesus Christ. | 02:04 |
dTal | which might be a reasonable calculus, were it not for the mutation risk | 02:04 |
raccoon_dog | Exactly. | 02:04 |
raccoon_dog | All the variants. | 02:05 |
de-facto | yeah id also not go for any correlation yet, but i just thought that list of countries is in the news right now too. they had pretty high prevalence there, hence they also were chosen for the trials, yet also breeded on those mutations (because of many infections occurring in general) | 02:05 |
dTal | right so the common cause is "high rates" | 02:05 |
de-facto | yeah | 02:05 |
dTal | possibly. | 02:05 |
bin_bash | the thing that's so crazy and also sad in the US is the number of vaccine doses that get wasted | 02:06 |
bin_bash | because of people not showing up | 02:06 |
dTal | raccoon_dog, I tend to agree; people are likely to regard their vaccination as carte blanche | 02:06 |
raccoon_dog | dTal: Exactly. | 02:06 |
dTal | and they've been so hyped up for it as a panacea | 02:06 |
bin_bash | it's terrifying frankly | 02:06 |
LjL | dTal, the UK sequences a lot, and the same is true of South Africa, according to what i see on nextstrain. in Brazil, it's kinda true, but not really relative to their population, at a glance | 02:08 |
raccoon_dog | bin_bash: Exactly. I've had multiple conversations with that topic as the thing that made me realize, "This person I know has gone insane." Typical exchange: "I heard you had an appointment for the first shot?" "You don't believe that's a thing, do you?" "The pandemic ... ?" "The virus. The virus is a hoax. Come on, you knew this." | 02:08 |
raccoon_dog | There is more than one person who's tried to have this conversation with me. | 02:08 |
de-facto | .title https://covidcg.org/?tab=global_sequencing | 02:08 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From covidcg.org: COVID CG | 02:08 |
bin_bash | yeah and that's about the point i revoke their personhood and walk away | 02:08 |
bin_bash | fortunately for me i havent been blood reated to anyone like that | 02:09 |
dTal | In Israel they go out at the end of the day and vaccinate anyone they can pull in off the street | 02:09 |
dTal | no wasted doses even with no-show appointments | 02:09 |
raccoon_dog | bin_bash: It's easy if you don't have to meet them every Thanksgiving and winter holiday season. Lol | 02:09 |
de-facto | and they guarantee second dose in time for those lucky ones in Israel | 02:09 |
bin_bash | that's not something you can do here dTal | 02:09 |
raccoon_dog | I don't have that fortune. | 02:09 |
dTal | how come, bin_bash? | 02:09 |
pigughs | anti-vaccine-ism was a thing before covid, some places started having Measles outbreaks, cause parents refused the vac for kids | 02:09 |
bin_bash | raccoon_dog: yeah im not blood related so i can just have my own thanksgiving | 02:09 |
raccoon_dog | pigughs: Right. It's been around a while. | 02:10 |
dTal | because of low population density? | 02:10 |
bin_bash | dTal: why can't you just yank people off the street and give them vaccinations without consent? Because it's illegal. | 02:10 |
dTal | no, not without consent, duh | 02:10 |
LjL | dTal, but what worries me is that from the little i've been able to understand, people who understand more than me are a bit perplexed as to how variants with several mutations seem to have come up all at once, without known intermediate stages (even in countries that sequence a lot). so one theory was that variants may develop inside just one patient, like someone who is partially immunocompromised, just enough to still have working antibodies against the | 02:10 |
LjL | virus, but not enough to eliminate the virus completely, making for a human lab. if that hypothesis is plausible, then, i'd think, so is that of a half-baked vaccine causing a similar course | 02:10 |
dTal | you *offer* it to passers by | 02:10 |
de-facto | UK 44.1 seq/1000 cases, SA 1.91 seq / 1000 cases, Brazil 0.19 seq / 1000 cases | 02:10 |
pigughs | prolly grew about the same time as Infowars, and AM hate radio | 02:10 |
dTal | jeez, I thought that was obvious | 02:10 |
bin_bash | what passers-by? | 02:11 |
raccoon_dog | There's distinct variations on it; some people are just anti-vaxx in general, even if they do accept the virus and the pandemic is an issue. Those people often come from the MMR-autism nonsense. Then there's another group that doesn't even accept the virus as being real, that think it's some NWO ploy to get people implanted with some "chip". Crazy beliefs. | 02:11 |
bin_bash | hospitals and clinics don't have people just going around outside saying "hey want a vaccine?" | 02:11 |
dTal | LjL: but in wildly distant continents? | 02:11 |
bin_bash | But in some cases you can call up and make an appointment for if there's a cancelation or something | 02:11 |
dTal | bin_bash: that's the point; they should | 02:11 |
raccoon_dog | bin_bash: Right -- especially when there's a shortage and frontline essential workers need it first. | 02:12 |
dTal | there's no reason not to | 02:12 |
LjL | dTal, i don't understand why you ask that question. the variants are not identical. whether it was caused by "special patients", or by a half-baked vaccine in a few thousands people, yes... it could be in three separate continents. except, if those also happen to be the places where just such a vaccine was tested, my antennæ kinda ræise up | 02:12 |
dTal | "We got 5 no-shows today, go find 5 people who want the vaccine" | 02:12 |
bin_bash | right let's just have essential personnel standing outside yelling "VACCINES! GET YOUR VACCINES HERE FOLKS!" i'm sure it'll go swimmingly. /s | 02:12 |
dTal | not complicated | 02:12 |
pigughs | J&J results are due out soon, with some luck it will be 1 shot , effective and not require -40C ? | 02:12 |
bin_bash | dTal: do you typically just have people sitting around? | 02:13 |
de-facto | LjL, well there also might be a threshold for the first immunity waning off and start of occurrence of (asymptomatic) reinfections, so that also might become only common enough after some time to breed under (non-neutralizing) selection pressure | 02:13 |
dTal | bin_bash: why don't you go look at what Israel is doing before accusing me of not thinking things through | 02:13 |
dTal | they are literally doing this | 02:13 |
de-facto | so that also could be an effect explaining the delay of occurrence of new partly evading mutants maybe | 02:13 |
dTal | it works | 02:13 |
dTal | nearly 0 vaccine wastage | 02:13 |
bin_bash | i have. netanyahu just got banned from facebook for trying to get phone numbers of unvaccinated people over 60 | 02:13 |
LjL | de-facto, but that does not explain why those three particular places. dTal's theory "they sequence a lot" kinda does, but i'm concerned | 02:13 |
LjL | (by variants of concern) | 02:14 |
dTal | LjL: I asked the question because you said the mystery was multiple variants arising simulatenously | 02:14 |
LjL | dTal, did i? | 02:14 |
LjL | dTal, i think you misunderstood me | 02:14 |
dTal | ah perhaps I didn't quite absorb the "no intermediate stages" part | 02:14 |
dTal | I think I understand now | 02:14 |
LjL | dTal, okay. yes, that | 02:15 |
de-facto | i guess such variants could occur in all countries with antibodies waning off and reinfections occurring now, viral replication under (non neutralizing) selection pressure for some generations | 02:15 |
dTal | so the mystery is sudden leaps in genotype | 02:15 |
dTal | there's some unexplained phenomenon there | 02:15 |
dTal | another possiblity might be zoonotic reservoirs? | 02:15 |
LjL | dTal, basically, if you're sequencing decently, you expect to see N501Y in one patient... then another guy has N501Y *and* the other thing... and then... and then... not 5 new mutations that all seem to be meaningful, popping up at once | 02:15 |
de-facto | thats why i was talking about a possible window of time to bring it down by NPIs and hold it low by doing as many vaccinations as possible in as short time as possible globally synchronized | 02:16 |
de-facto | and yeah i know its unrealistic unfortunately | 02:16 |
LjL | dTal, yes, i guess that's another possibility, no idea how likely. i'm reporting this theory of immunocompromised patients because i've read it (on virological.org or some such place) | 02:16 |
dTal | so it circulates in some population that isn't tested at all, like pangolins or cats or something | 02:16 |
dTal | jesus de-facto I hope you're wrong | 02:16 |
dTal | about literally everything you say | 02:17 |
de-facto | me too | 02:17 |
LjL | dTal, but still, fine, let's have that as another theory. not just the UK, SA and Brazil have pangolins! (or at all?) but alright let's just keep it in one corner of our brains that at some point it would be nice to know if the fact these three countries are the same as the other three countries is just a coincidence | 02:17 |
de-facto | LjL, yes that jump in mutation rate, but that also could just mean it evolved somewhere else where it was not on mutation radar at all, then maybe got imported and exploded under the mutation radar | 02:17 |
de-facto | well or sure it also could mean it did that locally in some weird environment | 02:18 |
bin_bash | the uk has a big problem with outdoor cats so it's not unlikely that it's circulating amongst them | 02:19 |
bin_bash | and then people bring them into their homes for cuddles | 02:19 |
raccoon_dog | Wai, what? | 02:19 |
raccoon_dog | Wait* | 02:19 |
bin_bash | brazil does too actually | 02:19 |
raccoon_dog | Cats? Cats can get the virus? | 02:19 |
bin_bash | oh yes | 02:19 |
raccoon_dog | I heard about the gorilla lately. | 02:19 |
bin_bash | we've known that for a year | 02:19 |
Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +16998 cases (now 3.7 million), +497 deaths (now 98531) since 18 hours ago — Canada: +4790 cases (now 753571), +117 deaths (now 19187) since 23 hours ago | 02:19 |
raccoon_dog | But *cats*? The pets people keep at home and snuggle with in bed?? | 02:19 |
bin_bash | some tigers got it at the bronx zoo | 02:19 |
raccoon_dog | What! | 02:19 |
bin_bash | yes | 02:19 |
bin_bash | thats been known for almost a year | 02:19 |
raccoon_dog | Well. That's not a housecat -- that's a distinct felid. I mean housecats. | 02:20 |
bin_bash | so do i | 02:20 |
raccoon_dog | But have there been documented cases of housecats having the virus? | 02:20 |
bin_bash | cats are not all that genetically diverse. housecats are only partially domesticated, unlike dogs | 02:20 |
bin_bash | yes! | 02:20 |
LjL | cats can get the virus and pass it to each other | 02:20 |
raccoon_dog | And can they pass it to us? | 02:20 |
de-facto | yeah (house) cats, minks, golden hamsters, ... | 02:20 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, yes, and also passing it to other cats, as that was explicitly experimented on | 02:20 |
raccoon_dog | WHAT. | 02:20 |
raccoon_dog | ?!!??!?! | 02:20 |
bin_bash | yep | 02:21 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, that is not known, nobody tried :P | 02:21 |
de-facto | racoons? no idea | 02:21 |
raccoon_dog | o.o | 02:21 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, have you missed the whole mink event? | 02:21 |
bin_bash | right now is probably the worst time ever to allow your cats outside. i mean it's always been bad for the environment and ecology but now it's also bad for everyone | 02:21 |
LjL | except if you have a cat that's used to go outside, it'll be hell to try to keep it inside... | 02:22 |
bin_bash | idk i would never let my cats outside alone | 02:22 |
LjL | fair enough | 02:22 |
de-facto | its pretty easily jumping between humans and some species, so such a ping pong event could explain a jump because in such animals it would replicate in a completely different environment (slightly different proteins, different immune system etc) | 02:22 |
dTal | there is a strange cat that comes into my parent's kitchen and licks the butter | 02:22 |
LjL | but if someone already does, it's hard to stop that behavior | 02:22 |
bin_bash | ew | 02:22 |
bin_bash | LjL: yeah fair | 02:22 |
bin_bash | i havent experienced it so idk | 02:22 |
raccoon_dog | This is extremely disturbing to me. | 02:22 |
raccoon_dog | I had no idea about any of this. | 02:22 |
dTal | it is the smartest little shit I have ever had to match wits with | 02:22 |
bin_bash | cats are pretty willful though so id imagine it would be a painful training experience | 02:22 |
raccoon_dog | I thought the gorilla case from this week was something bizarre. | 02:23 |
bin_bash | raccoon_dog: nope old news | 02:23 |
de-facto | for example in the mink population the mutation Y453F occured independently in several mink populations because the ACE2 receptor is a slightly different molecule in minks (but still similar enough) | 02:23 |
dTal | I don't wanna catch covid from contaminated butter | 02:23 |
dTal | that would be such an ignominious way to die | 02:23 |
bin_bash | dTal: how is it even getting in there | 02:23 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, it is disturbing enough that one of the countries with the top mink fur production in the world decided to kill all their mink to stop the variant that had developed in mink from propagating to more humans (some humans already had it) | 02:23 |
LjL | that country being Denmark | 02:23 |
raccoon_dog | I actually did think that since gorillas and humans have some shared DNA from ancestral times from a common ape ancestor, it may have been due to that. | 02:23 |
dTal | bin_bash: cat flap | 02:23 |
raccoon_dog | But apparently that's not a requirement ... | 02:23 |
bin_bash | have you tried sealing it shut dTal | 02:23 |
LjL | %wik Cluster 5 | 02:23 |
dTal | my parents have a cat | 02:23 |
bin_bash | or electrifying it | 02:23 |
de-facto | and it did spread back in Denmark (Cluster 5), so they could find Y453F in some humans later then | 02:23 |
Brainstorm | LjL, from English Wikipedia: "Cluster 5", also referred to as ΔFVI-spike by the Danish State Serum Institute (SSI), is, or was, a variant of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. It was discovered in North Jutland, Denmark, and is believed to have been spread from minks to humans via mink farms. On 4 November 2020, it was [... want %more?] → https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cluster_5 | 02:23 |
bin_bash | well then that's not any beetter :P | 02:24 |
dTal | so the cat flap is kind of important | 02:24 |
raccoon_dog | LjL: Sheesh. | 02:24 |
bloody_noob259[m | If cats might be drivers of the pandemic shouldnt we also See high Rates on Crete? | 02:24 |
dTal | our cat is not gregarious to other humans or cats so there's no danger in letting him outside, directly | 02:24 |
bin_bash | the risk to the ecology and environment is still there | 02:24 |
dTal | but the cat flap is an entry point for this other little furry bastard | 02:24 |
bin_bash | but that's a topic for another time. | 02:24 |
raccoon_dog | There's actually an island near Japan I think. Cat Island. | 02:24 |
bin_bash | you know there are flaps that respond to chips | 02:25 |
bin_bash | and dont unlock for other animals | 02:25 |
raccoon_dog | Has God knows how many cats. | 02:25 |
dTal | yeah I know | 02:25 |
bin_bash | ah figured it was worth a mention at least | 02:25 |
dTal | on the ecosystem topic I would be shocked if this cat can catch anything at all | 02:25 |
de-facto | bloody_noob259[m, probably cats are not drivers, we would know that by now | 02:25 |
bin_bash | i would be shocked if it didnt kill stuff everyday tbh | 02:25 |
dTal | he's an old cat | 02:25 |
dTal | very very slow | 02:26 |
dTal | comically slow | 02:26 |
LjL | de-facto, i think there's a lot of things that one is tempted to say "we would know by now" about, and yet we don't | 02:26 |
dTal | maybe if he waited by a mouse hole or something but he ain't catching birds | 02:26 |
dTal | anyway | 02:26 |
LjL | de-facto, for a positive test of this: do we know of any country where people who test positive have their animals routinely tested too, to see if that could be the case? | 02:27 |
LjL | i think if that's not being done, then "we would know by now" doesn't hold | 02:27 |
bin_bash | ^^i think that's a good point. | 02:27 |
LjL | i think it's very possible that most mammals will be drivers to some extent, obviously more so the ones who live close to men (rats and mice have already been raised as a concern) | 02:28 |
de-facto | LjL, well yeah but for example if cats would be the drivers (hence by definition contribute a significant part to new infections) the correlation bloody_noob259[m just asked have shown up in the data when it was known that cats can get infected, so for example why dont we have crazy high rates in Crete then? | 02:28 |
bin_bash | and theyve found that cats recover quickly, so the cat may not show any serious symptoms but still passing it on | 02:28 |
de-facto | or other places with lots of stray cats | 02:28 |
bloody_noob259[m | <de-facto "bloody_noob259, probably cats ar"> There are alot of cats on Crete, havent checked infections for a while though. But then again most cats on Crete live outside | 02:28 |
bin_bash | i dont think cats are the drivers, but it wouldnt surprise me if they didnt contribute in some way | 02:28 |
LjL | de-facto, i would say "the drivers", in humans, are definitely other humans. doesn't mean cats can't be "drivers" without the | 02:28 |
raccoon_dog | LjL: And what's ironic is that cats have been historically kept -- as vermin control. | 02:28 |
dTal | I doubt cats pass it to humans very effectively | 02:28 |
raccoon_dog | LjL: And now there's a possibility they themselves are a driver. | 02:28 |
dTal | they don't talk | 02:28 |
dTal | they're the wrong height | 02:28 |
bin_bash | they lick themselves all the time and then people pet them | 02:28 |
bin_bash | and then they tocuh their faces | 02:28 |
bin_bash | or they cuddle with the cats or give them hugs or kisses | 02:29 |
raccoon_dog | dTal: They groom themselves with their own tongues. | 02:29 |
raccoon_dog | And then humans snuggle with them. | 02:29 |
dTal | that's a good point | 02:29 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, or to see it another way, both cats and mice were calmly going on about their business without any virus getting in the way, until humans decided to play with bats and create this whole virus issue for them | 02:29 |
raccoon_dog | Heh, yeah. | 02:29 |
dTal | I don't think the mice were very calm about it | 02:30 |
de-facto | lol | 02:30 |
LjL | dTal, did they have toxoplasmosis? | 02:30 |
raccoon_dog | Well, I'm certainly going to be more mindful of petting stray/feral cats from now on. :| | 02:30 |
bin_bash | toxoplasmosis is a big problem in a lot of places | 02:30 |
raccoon_dog | Yeesh. | 02:30 |
bin_bash | another reason i dont allow my cats out lol | 02:30 |
dTal | okay the ones with toxoplasmosis were calm | 02:30 |
dTal | touche | 02:31 |
LjL | i've stopped touching outside cats since the pandemic began | 02:31 |
LjL | dTal, hehe | 02:31 |
de-facto | raccoon_dog, i knew it and i did pet stray cats (they are so cute :), but i did not touch anything until i washed my hands very good after touching that cat | 02:31 |
raccoon_dog | de-facto: This is what bothers me -- why did I not know this? Everyone here was as sure as 2 + 2 = 4 when I brought it up. | 02:32 |
raccoon_dog | I guess the media may not have paid much attention to it here. | 02:32 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, because we spend too much time in this channel fueling our anxiety | 02:32 |
de-facto | yeah true | 02:32 |
LjL | while sometimes reminding each other that it doesn't help our immune systems | 02:32 |
LjL | ut we do it anyway | 02:32 |
de-facto | its abit addictive tbh | 02:33 |
LjL | it has been widely publicized in media | 02:33 |
LjL | but like | 02:33 |
LjL | LOTS and LOTS of things about COVID have been "widely publicized" in media | 02:33 |
LjL | it's hard to remember what media were saying months ago | 02:33 |
raccoon_dog | Yeah. And it's hard to separate what's BS from what's credible. | 02:33 |
LjL | the thing about cats has not been on media's radar in a while | 02:33 |
raccoon_dog | Right. | 02:33 |
LjL | not just that, it's simply overload | 02:34 |
raccoon_dog | Indeed. It's SO much. | 02:34 |
raccoon_dog | It's like a dump. | 02:34 |
raccoon_dog | Every single hour. | 02:34 |
de-facto | same with the onslaught of new preprint papers, its awesome but its also too much to read all of them | 02:34 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, there are definitely studies on mental health that give us worrying prospects on how that makes us feel | 02:34 |
LjL | although i haven't read them | 02:35 |
LjL | because i'm honestly like | 02:35 |
LjL | EXTREMELY INTERESTING = skim the whole study | 02:35 |
LjL | VERY INTERESTING = read the abstract | 02:35 |
raccoon_dog | LjL: Oh, yeah. The lockdown and quarantine measures definitely do have a toll on mental health. | 02:35 |
LjL | INTERESTING = read the headline and assume it's misleading | 02:35 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, yeah but i think it's also this continuous reminders | 02:35 |
LjL | hard to separate i guess | 02:35 |
LjL | and hard to not continuously remind ourselves, either. even if you keep the TV off and stay off news site and off this channel, you still have to remember to sanitize your hands and put on your mask and disinfect your groceries or whatever you do | 02:36 |
bin_bash | The biggest toll on my mental health is watching fucktards going about their lives as if nothing is happening | 02:36 |
LjL | which are reasonable things to do, but also constant reminders of the non-normalcy and danger of this situation for us | 02:36 |
bin_bash | because it's illegal to kill them still | 02:37 |
bin_bash | :( | 02:37 |
raccoon_dog | Yeah, exactly. | 02:37 |
raccoon_dog | Like the very act of existing, of living, has this thing as an integral part. | 02:37 |
raccoon_dog | It's part and parcel of living now. | 02:37 |
raccoon_dog | Well, except for the idiots bin_bash mentioned. | 02:37 |
raccoon_dog | They're pretending nothing's wrong. | 02:37 |
raccoon_dog | To the detriment of themselves AND those around them. | 02:37 |
LjL | but let's not kill anybody even if someone makes it legal, please | 02:37 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Moderna is designing a new version of its COVID-19 shot to fight the variant first found in South Africa → https://is.gd/WmTJCB | 02:37 |
LjL | (i know that's not the american way, but i'll say it anyway) | 02:37 |
bin_bash | in 1918 there was a case of a health department guy shooting a guy who refused to wear a mask | 02:38 |
bin_bash | and that's the america i believe in | 02:38 |
bin_bash | i would probably try to argue that it was self-defense. if having sex with someone without a condom is assault then not wearing a mask is too | 02:39 |
bin_bash | but anyway i digress | 02:39 |
raccoon_dog | bin_bash: What was the context? I mean if the dude without a mask was deliberately being obnoxious about it, coughing on people, screaming about "his rights" or whatever ... not saying it's justified, but I'm saying a court could argue it may have been self-defense. | 02:39 |
bin_bash | https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/03/how-fragmented-country-fights-pandemic/608284/ | 02:41 |
LjL | i'm sorry that's the america you believe in | 02:42 |
bin_bash | LjL: i was being sarcastic, sorry it didnt come through | 02:43 |
bin_bash | i need to use /s more | 02:43 |
LjL | no | 02:43 |
LjL | /s is dumb | 02:43 |
raccoon_dog | How does one show sarcasm, then? | 02:43 |
LjL | but it seemed like you were actually half-condoning the act, so... | 02:43 |
raccoon_dog | XD | 02:43 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, i think the whole point of sarcasm is more or less to see if the other parties spot it on their own. | 02:43 |
bin_bash | well it was a bit of dark humor with a defeatist attitude of if you cant convince em then kill em | 02:43 |
bin_bash | but not from a real practicality standpoint | 02:43 |
LjL | okay | 02:44 |
raccoon_dog | LjL: The thing is, in a world where people genuine believe diametrically opposing things, it can be hard to distinguish sometimes. | 02:44 |
raccoon_dog | genuinely* | 02:44 |
bin_bash | but yeah i can see how it would come across as actually condoning it | 02:44 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, well, i prefer to find out by getting a mental picture of a person naturally, even if that takes time, over labelling every act of speech with something | 02:44 |
bin_bash | in a perfect world it would be cut and dry. people who wore masks and monsters who didnt but thats not the real world | 02:44 |
raccoon_dog | This is IRC, that's easier in real life, LjL. I only have text here. | 02:45 |
raccoon_dog | Real life, of course, is harder nowadays because of the very topic of this channel. XD | 02:45 |
LjL | i've only had text for many years and i much prefer it to real life :P | 02:45 |
raccoon_dog | You got that right ... | 02:45 |
LjL | it's not true i prefer it to real life, or at least i would have to elaborate on that - but i think there are many clues about things and people over text, too, they are just different clues than the ones you have in person (they may also be more prone to noise in the signal, i'll grant that) | 02:46 |
LjL | anyway, my uh "charter" for this channel (which was really a half-baked thing i did in reaction to people wanting explicit rules, and me not wanting them) says that it should also be a place for people to try to feel better instead of worse. i think we currently fail at that. maybe it's because we factually only have (overwhelmingly, at least) bad news... or that we have no channel-resident psychologist | 02:48 |
LjL | but i wonder, like, if raccoon_dog is a bit terrified from learning about cats and tons of other animals carrying the virus, and it seems like a dump of scary information... i believe in information, but is there something we can do also to counterbalance that to avoid going all crazy? | 02:49 |
LjL | it's an open question | 02:49 |
LjL | and it's not for me, i'm already crazy, but it may matter to the rest of y'all! | 02:49 |
raccoon_dog | I'm afraid of it, and it doesn't seem good, but I accept that if this is what the evidence shows, it is real and happening and we need to adjust our lives accordingly. | 02:50 |
raccoon_dog | In my case, for example, trying not to interact with outside cats. | 02:50 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, i'm sure you realize there is a corollary to the fact it's in a bunch of animals, though, and i really don't like that corollary... and i appreciate your attitude of acknowledging and accepting reality, other people sometimes tell me i should do that more :P | 02:50 |
raccoon_dog | LjL: Yes. It's a ... messy corollary. | 02:51 |
LjL | let's just say Pfizer and Moderna won't be out of a job any time soon | 02:52 |
LjL | (not so sure about AZ unless they learn to do a better job) | 02:52 |
dTal | LjL: I don't think the goals of "inform people about the latest covid news" and "cheer people up" are even remotely compatible | 02:59 |
LjL | "cheer people up" is not what i've said, though | 03:00 |
LjL | as an example, albeit likely not a sufficient one, ending up feeling like you know what are the best masks to use and other good ways to protect yourself, instead of feeling lost, could be a good thing for people | 03:01 |
LjL | it's still about the virus, but constructive instead of destructive | 03:01 |
LjL | but when we start nitpicking on the best way to deal with things we often end up not agreeing anyway, and i'd assume we'd agree even less with the general population, so someone passing by here might end up feeling *more* lost and confused, which wouldn't help. so i don't know, but *if* it worked, it would be an example | 03:03 |
de-facto | for the the Moderna paper and press release was good news today | 03:05 |
de-facto | i was very worried about the E484K (had bad mood for days) and them showing that their vaccine still is effective (even with reduced neutralization) against it and them working on an update to make sure it does not wane off too soon in the future kinda calmed me a bit about all this | 03:08 |
de-facto | (sorry about my sentences broken sometimes, maybe i should try to read them again before hitting enter) | 03:10 |
LjL | i see all that more negatively, but it's probably just the way i am | 03:12 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Moderna says it believes vaccine will work against new variants → https://is.gd/X4YzAx | 03:13 |
LjL | aaaaand one more | 03:14 |
LjL | we saw the Category before, but this wikipedia article has a few useful "conversion tables" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2 | 03:27 |
raccoon_dog | It's going to be harrowing seen that article grow over tiem ............. | 03:29 |
raccoon_dog | s/seen/seeing | 03:29 |
raccoon_dog | s/tiem/time | 03:29 |
raccoon_dog | Christ, my spelling. | 03:29 |
LjL | that article growing will mean we *know* about specific variants that are of particular concern, meaning we also know what we should target vaccines at | 03:31 |
raccoon_dog | Yeah, that's true. | 03:32 |
LjL | raccoon_dog, in the also ever-growing channel links list there is a github page of someone who's actually trying to track all "variants of concern" where concern is defined more broadly than the ones "notable" to wikipedia. that is already jarringly long | 03:34 |
raccoon_dog | o.o | 03:34 |
LjL | %link mutations of interest | 03:35 |
Brainstorm | LjL, https://www.cogconsortium.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/Report-1_COG-UK_19-December-2020_SARS-CoV-2-Mutations.pdf (COG-UK update on SARS-CoV-2 Spike mutations of special interest) comes after the https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-britain-strain/uk-says-new-coronavirus-strain-is-more-infectious-but-vaccines-should-still-work-idUSKBN28T0KL (UK government [... want %more?] | 03:35 |
LjL | blaaaah | 03:35 |
LjL | https://github.com/emmahodcroft/cluster_scripts | 03:35 |
de-facto | oh wow that wikipedia is very much up-to-date (as of course is Dr Emma Hodcroft as always) | 03:42 |
LjL | de-facto, i think the table at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variants_of_SARS-CoV-2#Summary is slightly out of date in that surely the antigenicity of the SA variant is not just "undergoing investigation", we know it is much less sensitive to some neutralizing antibodies | 03:43 |
LjL | but while i have the Moderna study handy, i don't have... i think before the Moderna stuff there was another study that first showed neutralizing antibodies didn't work on it, no? | 03:44 |
LjL | not sure if just a preprint still (Wikipedia doesn't accept those) | 03:44 |
de-facto | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.01.15.426911v1 <-- you mean this? | 03:50 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: mRNA vaccine-elicited antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 and circulating variants | bioRxiv | 03:50 |
de-facto | the preprint of Rockefeller University, New York | 03:51 |
LjL | ah, preprint, no go then | 03:54 |
LjL | thanks though | 03:54 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +53 deaths (now 9146) since 12 hours ago — New Zealand: +2 cases (now 2290) since 22 hours ago | 04:05 |
de-facto | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3NhPgOoX4&list=PLGhmZX2NKiNldpyRUBBEzNoWL0Cso1jip&index=1 <-- these are such cool lectures about virology, they even document the pandemic along 2020 with a short intro before each lecture | 04:05 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.youtube.com: Virology Lectures 2020 #1: What is a Virus? - YouTube | 04:05 |
de-facto | thankfully he talks pretty slow so one could ramp up to 2x speed then each lecture is just ~30min | 04:06 |
de-facto | and he got really really awesome graphics and animations in his lectures | 04:07 |
de-facto | its fascinating how much of it actually is geometry | 04:08 |
de-facto | and information of course | 04:09 |
Brainstorm | New from NPR: A New Coronavirus Variant From Brazil, Is Found In Minnesota: A Twin Cities resident contracted a new variant of the coronavirus after traveling to Brazil. The new strain is believed to be more transmissible. → https://is.gd/xUB1cq | 04:16 |
de-facto | yeah maybe we should promote airtravel even more, congratz | 04:19 |
de-facto | :/ | 04:19 |
de-facto | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wC8ObD2W4Rk | 04:45 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.youtube.com: SARS-CoV-2 UK variant: Does it matter? - YouTube | 04:45 |
de-facto | comment from Vincent Racaniello on 2020-12-21 | 04:45 |
de-facto | prettty interesting about mutations in general | 04:46 |
de-facto | .title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPo2BAq4H-8 <-- btw the mutants are also addressed around minute 20 here | 05:12 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.youtube.com: TWiEVO 64: Seeing the lineages for the variants - YouTube | 05:12 |
de-facto | LjL, they talk about the Rockefeller Uni NY paper i linked above | 05:14 |
de-facto | very interesting they talk about first signs of convergent viral evolution (independent emergence of selection for the same mutations in different places) | 05:18 |
de-facto | and Vincent Racaniello just got his Moderna shot in his arm | 05:19 |
ryouma | which i guess is a good ad for that brand | 05:20 |
de-facto | i dont think they need any ads though, they need to scale production as does Pfizer/BioNTech and all the others | 05:27 |
ryouma | (i was not implying shenanigans but rather praising vincent is all) | 05:31 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Biden: Anyone who wants a COVID vaccine will be able to get a COVID vaccine by "this spring." (10530 votes) | https://www.complex.com/life/biden-american-wants-vaccine-be-able-get-one-spring?utm_campaign=complexmag&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social | https://redd.it/l4z9uz | 05:34 |
gigasu_shida | de-facto: wouldn't you just love a world in which all passports are revoked =) | 05:57 |
de-facto | no but a world in which biosecurity is not ignored anymore | 06:03 |
gigasu_shida | i'll be the first to admit it if i become a walking biohazard | 06:19 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Airlifted COVID vaccines to 9 countries, will gradually supply to WHO’s COVAX facility: India at UN → https://is.gd/NN9MtH | 06:19 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Thailand: +959 cases (now 14646) since 22 hours ago — Germany: +548 deaths (now 53325) since 22 hours ago | 06:27 |
de-facto | lol | 06:30 |
de-facto | i guess its all by intention, huh? | 06:30 |
de-facto | i guess they should just let air-travel passengers sign a paper that they really really do promise not to import an asymptomatic infection with a new variant :P | 06:40 |
Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: Lebanese in impoverished north protest coronavirus lockdown → https://is.gd/KWnLT3 | 06:46 |
de-facto | oh wait they do that already, and also that they promise to stay in home quarantine. well i guess then we can relax, because that sounds like a proper biosecurity concept. | 06:51 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: PRINCIPLE trial finds no benefit from antibiotics, azithromycin and doxycycline for COVID-19 patients (80 votes) | https://www.nihr.ac.uk/news/principle-trial-finds-no-benefit-from-antibiotics-azithromycin-and-doxycycline-for-covid-19-patients/26680 | https://redd.it/l50vpr | 06:53 |
Brainstorm | New preprint: mRNA-1273 vaccine induces neutralizing antibodies against spike mutants from global SARS-CoV-2 variants by et al, made available as preprint on 2021-01-25 at https://biorxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2021.01.25.427948 [... want %more?] | 07:03 |
Brainstorm | Updates for C. Valenciana, Spain: +19462 cases (now 264742), +176 deaths (now 4192) since 2 days ago — Andalusia, Spain: +19378 cases (now 368220), +155 deaths (now 5925) since 2 days ago — Castile y Leon, Spain: +6573 cases (now 174017), +33 deaths (now 5473) since 2 days ago — Galicia, Spain: +4287 cases (now 86829), +31 deaths (now 1616) since 2 days ago | 07:23 |
Brainstorm | New from Il Sole 24 Ore: Moderna affila nuove armi contro le varianti del virus: La ricerca della azienda Usa punta da una lato ad aumentare le difesa con una terza dose del vaccino oggi disponibile, le difese, dall'altro prevede un “richiamo” mirato per quella o altre variabili che potrebbero presentarsi → https://is.gd/C12Dtw | 07:27 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Moderna vaccine appears to work against new Covid-19 variants → https://is.gd/wHt381 | 07:56 |
Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | January 26, 2021: The WHO pages contain up-to-date and global information. Please refer to our Wiki for additional information. → https://is.gd/Up7YB5 | 09:05 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +550 deaths (now 53327) since 18 hours ago | 09:15 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Coronavirus: EU to tighten vaccine exports amid row with AstraZeneca → https://is.gd/oXRItq | 09:41 |
Brainstorm | New from NPR: Anti-Curfew Protests Flare Up in The Netherlands: At least 150 people were reportedly arrested amid violent protests against coronavirus restrictions in the Netherlands. → https://is.gd/3DgmVv | 10:06 |
Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): COVID-19 Vaccine Moderna, COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine (nucleoside modified), COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 06/01/2021, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/ApJcx9 | 10:19 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Coronavirus: EU to tighten vaccine exports amid row with AstraZeneca → https://is.gd/oXRItq | 10:31 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Minnesota case marks 1st detection of Brazil variant in US: A new Brazilian variant of the coronavirus has made its first known appearance in the United States in a person who recently returned to Minnesota after traveling to Brazil, state health officials announced Monday. → https://is.gd/ppMeYa | 10:43 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: COVID-19 variant brings new dimension to Europe's pandemic: In the first week of December, Portugal's prime minister gave his pandemic-weary people an early Christmas gift: restrictions on gatherings and travel due to COVID-19 would be lifted from Dec. 23-26 so they could spend the holiday season with family and friends. → https://is.gd/3AAtzN | 10:55 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid: UK virus deaths top 100,000 since pandemic began: Another 7,700 deaths registered with Covid on death certificate, bringing total to nearly 104,000. → https://is.gd/CnVMT9 | 11:07 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Coronavirus: EU to tighten vaccine exports amid row with AstraZeneca → https://is.gd/oXRItq | 11:19 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Vaccine minister 'confident' of supplies amid production delays → https://is.gd/w4p9Xq | 11:32 |
Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Universal basic income and covid-19 pandemic: The gulf between the wealthiest and poorest had been increasing even before the covid-19 destroyed the globe’s health and economies.1 Recent research indicates a growing depth of poverty, and women... → https://is.gd/N8sw40 | 11:44 |
Brainstorm | Updates for UAE: +3601 cases (now 285147), +7 deaths (now 805) since 23 hours ago | 11:50 |
zutt | %cases israel | 11:51 |
Brainstorm | zutt: In Israel, there have been 607445 confirmed cases (6.6% of the population) and 4498 deaths (0.7% of cases) as of 4 hours ago. 10.2 million tests were performed (5.9% positive). Fatality can be broadly expected to lie between 0.8% (assuming prevalence as in tests) and less than 0.8% (considering only deaths and recoveries). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Israel for time series data. | 11:51 |
Brainstorm | New from Variants of SARS-CoV-2 on Wikipedia: ArcMachaon: correct V to GV; cleanup hatnotes per WP:1HAT: correct V to GV; cleanup hatnotes per WP:1HAT ← Previous revision Revision as of 10:48, 26 January 2021 Line 1: Line 1: {{short description|Different variants of SARS-CoV-2}} {{short description|Different variants of SARS-CoV-2}} {{COVID-19 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/xKhE7Z | 11:55 |
Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: New UK variant may be linked to increased death rate, early data indicate: The new UK variant of SARS-CoV-2 may be associated with an increased risk of death, emerging data are suggesting.In a briefing paper published on 22 January the government’s New and Emerging... → https://is.gd/1WY3LQ | 12:20 |
bittersweetsymph | If it is found in the sewerage it sounds like it is in the community even if there are no detected cases I guess unless it's from old cases that are shedding | 12:50 |
Brainstorm | New from Scientific American: COVID Vaccine Rollout Pits Fairness against Speed: People wait in line in a Disneyland parking lot in Anaheim, Calif., to receive COVID-19 vaccines on the opening day of the the park’s Super Point-of-Dispensing (POD) site on January 13, 2021. → https://is.gd/lyTyra | 13:09 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Saint Lucia: +99 cases (now 921), +2 deaths (now 13) since 16 hours ago | 13:10 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Coronavirus: Vaccine supply fears grow amid EU export threat: The EU calls for "fair" distribution after vaccine companies cut back on pledged supplies. → https://is.gd/oXRItq | 13:10 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: EU demands that vaccine makers honor their commitments → https://is.gd/bIg3Un | 13:21 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Lesotho: +3 cases (now 8047), +12 deaths (now 146) since 20 hours ago | 13:23 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Regeneron says monoclonal antibodies prevent Covid-19 in study: The drug maker Regeneron said its monoclonal antibody cocktail prevented Covid-19 in a clinical trial — a finding that could one day make the treatment an option for individuals who are… → https://is.gd/XE0hYR | 13:34 |
g2` | Click bait | 13:41 |
g2` | Immunocompromised | 13:43 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Vaccine minister 'confident' of supplies amid production delays → https://is.gd/w4p9Xq | 13:46 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid 19 vaccination drive: India’s one million shots in 6 days is world’s fastest rollout | India News - Times of India → https://is.gd/r3e9Rc | 13:59 |
DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: could you please check the regex/whatever to adjust the *bold* in those >>New from BBC Health: <b>(news):</b> Coronavirus: EU to tighten vaccine <<? | 14:09 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >> New from EMA: What's new: <b>Medicine:</b> Human medicines E...<< | 14:11 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Coronavirus: Vaccine supply fears grow amid EU export threat: The EU calls for "fair" distribution after vaccine companies cut back on pledged supplies. → https://is.gd/oXRItq | 14:11 |
DocScrutinizer05 | weird it works for >>New from BBC Health: <b>Coronavirus: Vaccine supply fears grow amid EU export threat:</b> The EU calls for..<< | 14:14 |
DocScrutinizer05 | maybe add a {25,} somewhere? | 14:21 |
DocScrutinizer05 | discontinuity in daily-reported for D, RKI today | 14:24 |
Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: Use social media to maximise vaccine confidence and uptake: We echo Hanif and colleagues’ concerns that some communities, such as ethnic minority groups and those of lower socioeconomic standing, may be left behind in the UK’s vaccination programme.1 Social... → https://is.gd/5gA2MQ | 14:24 |
DocScrutinizer05 | or rather yesterday? | 14:24 |
DocScrutinizer05 | yesterday X[t_now] ~= X[t-7d], today it's back to decline and even massive decline, way more than the ~20%/week we had for the last weeks | 14:26 |
DocScrutinizer05 | bottom line: sth is happening but absolutely unclear what | 14:27 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Germany: +574 deaths (now 53351) since 23 hours ago | 14:32 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Vaccine minister 'confident' of supplies amid production delays → https://is.gd/w4p9Xq | 14:37 |
Arsanerit | isn't there some artefact on corona.rki.de due to which the recent days always appear to show a decline? | 14:44 |
Arsanerit | Hamburg only reports 24 cases on corona.rki.de, that would be the lowest value since 25 August 2020, probably something missing there | 14:46 |
Arsanerit | or rathe ryesterday compared to day before | 14:46 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: New data show treatment with Lilly's neutralizing antibodies bamlanivimab (LY-CoV555) and etesevimab (LY-CoV016) together reduced risk of COVID-19 hospitalizations and death by 70 percent (90 votes) | https://investor.lilly.com/news-releases/news-release-details/new-data-show-treatment-lillys-neutralizing-antibodies | https://redd.it/l5cxht | 14:50 |
mjensen[m] | Can the news stories that the bot(s) post be deduplicated? It's kinda annoying to see the same story 5 times. | 15:01 |
Brainstorm | New from NIH Director's blog: Nanoparticle Technology Holds Promise for Protecting Against Many Coronavirus Strains at Once: It’s truly encouraging to witness people all across our nation rolling up their sleeves to get their COVID-19 vaccines. That is our best chance to end this pandemic. But this is the third corona-virus to emerge and cause [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/Vntjbu | 15:02 |
jacklsw | which bot? | 15:02 |
jacklsw | might some people keep posting the same news on reddit | 15:02 |
mjensen[m] | Brainstorm | 15:03 |
mjensen[m] | Or am I just seeing duplicates because of matrix? | 15:04 |
mjensen[m] | For example, this one | 15:05 |
mjensen[m] | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Vaccine minister 'confident' of supplies amid production delays → https://is.gd/w4p9Xq | 15:05 |
Arsanerit | It just needs to learn to be smart enough when recognising different headlines cover the same story ;-) | 15:05 |
mjensen[m] | Those have the same headline, same link, right? | 15:07 |
mjensen[m] | I'm on my phone, so it's hard to compare exactly. | 15:07 |
ubLIX[m] | those? you only posted one line? | 15:09 |
ubLIX[m] | i'm on matrix and that link only appears once in my scroll | 15:09 |
ubLIX[m] | ah. it's posting the text AND a screenshot which includes the text. i'm using text only client so i didn't see that | 15:12 |
ubLIX[m] | ^ LjL interesting fine tuning opportunity | 15:14 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy can be overcome with the right messaging, researchers find: The battle against COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy—an issue for nearly a quarter of Americans recently polled—can be won if messages promoting vaccination suggest most people will take it and political motivations did not rush its development, [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/bAbGhY | 15:14 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +1884 cases (now 515483), +94 deaths (now 9187) since 23 hours ago | 15:15 |
ubLIX[m] | mjensen: i guess you're more concerned with the triple post than the text redundancy in each post? | 15:15 |
iz | have you guys seen this aplidin news? | 15:17 |
iz | https://www.sfchronicle.com/health/article/Cancer-drug-Aplidin-shows-promise-as-COVID-15896461.php | 15:18 |
ubLIX[m] | hm. my bash script log viewer (faster than in-client search) already de-duplicates so i didn't see the triple post | 15:22 |
ubLIX[m] | maybe Brainstorm should scan previous 48 hours (oughta cover it) posts for de-duplication | 15:23 |
mjensen[m] | <ubLIX[m] "mjensen: i guess you're more con"> Just the redundant posts. | 15:23 |
ubLIX[m] | i recall that Brainstorm's fetching of Guardian articles should to be responsible for a lot of redundant posts, but that seemed to be because the Guardian changed a single word here or there. these three latest do seem to be identical | 15:24 |
ubLIX[m] | s/should/used/ | 15:24 |
mjensen[m] | ubLIX are you seeing the same news stories posted multiple times? | 15:26 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Pharma: STAT+: Pharmalittle: Regeneron says its antibody prevented Covid-19 in a trial; EU threatens to impose vaccine export controls → https://is.gd/K9gGqs | 15:27 |
ubLIX[m] | well not on this occasion, because i just connected, and the client only fetches the last 10 or so posts | 15:28 |
ubLIX[m] | but looking through raw log (after just now remembering that my log viewer de-duplicates) i did indeed find that triply redundant post | 15:29 |
ubLIX[m] | iirc Brainstorm is almost entirely python. fixing duplicate posts would depend on LjL finding time to add some regex test for new posts. idk if he has a rationale for having the post re-foreground news posts. wait to see what he says | 15:36 |
ubLIX[m] | *the bot | 15:36 |
mjensen[m] | I just logged on in my browser, it's less annoying to me here because it isn't displaying previews. | 15:43 |
mjensen[m] | It seems basing it off the URL would be good enough. There are times when a title or maybe some content in the story might change, but I personally don't want to be notified each time that happens. I'd like to hear about the rationale too... | 15:44 |
mjensen[m] | There's another example | 15:45 |
ubLIX[m] | eliminating exactly identical posts seems relatively straightforward, low hanging fruit. in cases where a word or two or a url has changed but the essences hasn't, it gets thornier | 15:50 |
mjensen[m] | In this case, filtering by URL would catch most of them. | 15:55 |
ubLIX[m] | if LjL is anything like as chaotic a script writer as i am, the difficulty will be in bringing oneself to open the script files in the first place ;p | 16:03 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: STAT+: STAT+ Conversations: A conversation with vaccine expert Paul Offit: STAT's Matthew Herper sits down with vaccine expert Paul Offit to discuss the ongoing Covid-19 vaccine rollout. → https://is.gd/yg2KEO | 16:03 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Dismay in France, land of Pasteur, over vaccine flops: News that France had fallen further behind in the race to develop COVID-19 vaccines caused dismay on Tuesday, reigniting a debate about the country's standing in the world and its scientific prowess. → https://is.gd/Ae6RkG | 16:16 |
Brainstorm | New from Variants of SARS-CoV-2 on Wikipedia: Another Believer: order: order ← Previous revision Revision as of 15:20, 26 January 2021 Line 242: Line 242: {{Portal|COVID-19}} {{Portal|COVID-19}} {{Wiktionary|COVID}} {{Wiktionary|COVID}} + ⚫ * [[RaTG13]], the closest known relative to SARS-CoV-2 * [[International Committee on Taxonomy of Viruses]] * [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/xKhE7Z | 16:29 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Biden sets new goal of 1.5 million COVID vaccinations a day: President Joe Biden upped the country's daily coronavirus vaccination goal to 1.5 million on Monday, even as more infectious variants surfaced across America. → https://is.gd/2idXyV | 16:54 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +3958 cases (now 959976), +71 deaths (now 13672) since 23 hours ago | 17:07 |
Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Direct Topical Lung T3 Treatment to Improve Outcome & Sequelae of COVID-19 Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome → https://is.gd/DlNLCy | 17:20 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +5123 cases (now 755303) since 23 hours ago | 17:44 |
LjL | ubLIX[m], mjensen[m]: i am a chaotic script writer indeed, and as i've said before, the RSS feeds module is one that i've written particularly badly. but it's not like i haven't *tried* to suppress these duplicate posts... of course i check the link, i also check the unique ID (when present, since not all sources are so kind as to actually include it), i check the timestamp to exclude older entries, and i even use an edit counter to match headlines that | 18:09 |
LjL | are *almost* identical but not quite. yet it sometimes happens anyway. it had seemed to subside after i removed... i think it was CNBC, which had a particularly nasty way to lie about their RSS timestamps and lacked IDs | 18:09 |
Brainstorm | New from Variants of SARS-CoV-2 on Wikipedia: Yadsalohcin: Revised 20H & 20I clades into the body of the text: Revised 20H & 20I clades into the body of the text ← Previous revision Revision as of 17:06, 26 January 2021 Line 110: Line 110: |first9=Andrew |last9=Rambaut |first9=Andrew |last9=Rambaut |first10=Jeff |last10=Barrett |first10=Jeff [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/xKhE7Z | 18:09 |
LjL | <ubLIX[m]> ah. it's posting the text AND a screenshot which includes the text. i'm using text only client so i didn't see that ← no, it's not. that's mjensen[m]'s client doing the screenshot thing. i believe i have URL titling/screenshotting disabled by default in the room, but i also believe the mobile client ignores that | 18:10 |
LjL | ubLIX[m], mjensen[m]: have a peek at what happens https://paste.ee/p/pxjjN | 18:19 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >><Arsanerit> isn't there some artefact on corona.rki.de due to which the recent days always appear to show a decline?<< nope, I refer to this https://i.imgur.com/Uzp4Cld.png | 18:19 |
DocScrutinizer05 | Arsanerit: there probably _is_ some artifact or hickup, but it's not systemic, it's probably a mistake somewhere again | 18:21 |
Brainstorm | New from NPR: European Union Warns AstraZeneca Over Reduction In Vaccine Shipments: "The companies must deliver. They must honor their obligations," the European Commission's president said after both AstraZeneca and Pfizer said they were experiencing shipping issues. → https://is.gd/mstXGq | 18:22 |
DocScrutinizer05 | >><mjensen[m]> Can the news stories that the bot(s) post be deduplicated? It's kinda annoying to see the same story 5 times. << I suggested keeping a list of last 24h posts and do a error tolerant "grep" to detect and filter headlines that are 90%+ identical to previous ones | 18:23 |
DocScrutinizer05 | haha >><ubLIX[m]> maybe Brainstorm should scan previous 48 hours (oughta cover it) posts for de-duplication<< yeah :-D | 18:27 |
ubLIX[m] | DocScrutinizer05: my viewer implemented in bash does that for 100% match (except it ignores timestamps and nick) and apparently catches a few. i don't speak python though :( | 18:27 |
ubLIX[m] | without wishing to pressure LjL, is python string parsing/comparison easier in python than bash? | 18:27 |
LjL | ubLIX[m], probably | 18:28 |
ubLIX[m] | no pressure now, lol | 18:28 |
LjL | DocScrutinizer05, please read what i stated on the matter | 18:28 |
LjL | everyone thinks they know the obvious solution to this | 18:28 |
LjL | but i'm DOING what you say | 18:28 |
ubLIX[m] | but but but | 18:29 |
LjL | the code has a bug somewhere, that means i'm a bad coder, but not that i'm a complete idiot | 18:29 |
LjL | elif latest.text == previous.text or SequenceMatcher(a=latest.text, b=previous.text).ratio() > 0.8: | 18:29 |
LjL | try: utils.log("Not updated: {new} == {old}".format(new=latest.text, old=previous.text)) | 18:29 |
LjL | except: utils.log("Not updated: (can't print what)") | 18:29 |
LjL | updated = False | 18:29 |
LjL | i only compare against one previous entry, and this can fail to work if BBC is utterly dumb. however BBC does provide unique IDs so those should work to disambiguate | 18:30 |
LjL | and i'm keeping the last 4096 seen IDs stored | 18:30 |
LjL | anyway, i've already changed the ids storage thing so that in addition to the IDs, it also stores URL and text of the previous 4096 entries to check for duplicates on that. but i think there's a bug somewhere else, i might have found it, but i've thought so a number of times before | 18:32 |
ubLIX[m] | rewrite it in bash | 18:32 |
LjL | probably not found it | 18:33 |
LjL | look, you're all welcome to spot the bug in my messy code | 18:33 |
LjL | %source feeds | 18:33 |
Brainstorm | LjL: Module feeds does not exist! | 18:33 |
LjL | yes it does | 18:33 |
LjL | except it does in a different bot | 18:34 |
ubLIX[m] | is this Brainstorm's Hal 9000 moment? | 18:34 |
ubLIX[m] | "I'm sorry LjL, I can't let you do that" | 18:34 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid deaths: UK passes milestone of 100,000: A total of 100,162 people have died with coronavirus since the pandemic began, according to government figures. → https://is.gd/5dzvZr | 18:35 |
LjL | more or less | 18:35 |
LjL | a lot of things broke when i divided the bot into three for speed/flexibility | 18:35 |
LjL | father son and holy shit how buggy | 18:35 |
LjL | i'm not entirely sure i can let info.py run on all three bots without horribad duplication of output, but i'll do it anyway | 18:36 |
LjL | Brainstorm, reload feeds | 18:36 |
Brainstorm | LjL: <module 'feeds' from '/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/feeds.pyc'> (version: 2021-01-26 17:36:32) | 18:36 |
LjL | not that one | 18:36 |
LjL | Brainstorm, reload info | 18:36 |
Brainstorm | LjL: <module 'info' from '/home/brainstorm/brainstorm/bot/modules/info.pyc'> (version: 2020-05-26 03:49:25) | 18:36 |
LjL | %source feeds | 18:36 |
Brainstorm | LjL, source code for module 'feeds' can be found at https://paste.ee/p/DSGK8 | 18:36 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Cuba: +786 cases (now 22614), +3 deaths (now 200) since a day ago — United Kingdom: +24005 cases (now 3.7 million), +1764 deaths (now 100162) since 21 hours ago | 18:40 |
DocScrutinizer05 | (me humbly suggests edit distance based grep in a circular buffer, and https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S0019995885800462?token=AD94F55C20CE9658BCDC06BAF78609935944CBEC63AE6A3092E7B4720A4F5C8EEB0A4BE2BD885E60DF3460CCB82B2139 | https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0019995885800462?via%3Dihub etc. Sorry, finding a (python) implementation aka lib will take some more time | 18:45 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The megarich have already recovered from the pandemic. It may take the poor a decade to do so → https://is.gd/pgTc4z | 18:47 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian: Politics: UK Covid live: Johnson 'sorry for every life lost' and takes 'full responsibility' as death toll passes 100,000 → https://is.gd/JdpcbH | 18:47 |
DocScrutinizer05 | sth along https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levenshtein_distance | 18:48 |
LjL | DocScrutinizer05, sigh | 18:48 |
LjL | SequenceMatcher *uses* Levenshtein distance | 18:48 |
LjL | also, the problem that occurred that ubLIX[m] and mjensen[m] were complaining about was with a BBC piece that never changed its headline at all | 18:48 |
LjL | so using some rocket-science-based edit distance will make no difference to the simple levenshtein distance i'm suing | 18:49 |
LjL | and using | 18:49 |
LjL | anyway i found the bug with the ID matching i think | 18:49 |
LjL | (if i won't have to say actually no for the nth time) | 18:49 |
DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: ooh >>SequenceMatcher *uses* Levenshtein distance<< :-D you're a smart one :-) | 18:50 |
DocScrutinizer05 | didn't know | 18:50 |
DocScrutinizer05 | did you find a lib for it? | 18:51 |
DocScrutinizer05 | or do you share your implementation? I certainly will need sth like this sooner or later | 18:52 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Vaccine minister 'confident' of supplies amid production delays → https://is.gd/w4p9Xq | 18:53 |
ubLIX[m] | LjL | anyway i found the bug with the ID matching i think << oh phew | 18:54 |
LjL | DocScrutinizer05, from difflib import SequenceMatcher | 18:55 |
LjL | it's part of Python | 18:55 |
LjL | ubLIX[m], get on IRC though | 18:56 |
Jigsy | %cases UK | 18:57 |
Brainstorm | Jigsy: In United Kingdom, there have been 3.7 million confirmed cases (5.6% of the population) and 100162 deaths (2.7% of cases) as of 16 minutes ago. 69.4 million tests were performed (5.3% positive). See https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=United%20Kingdom for time series data. | 18:57 |
LjL | anyway, it's all good, it should be fixed now, at least until some RSS feed finds a novel and unexpected way to break it | 19:03 |
LjL | it's like with virus variants | 19:04 |
Brainstorm | New from The Guardian: Politics: UK Covid live: Johnson 'sorry for every life lost' and takes 'full responsibility' as death toll passes 100,000 → https://is.gd/JdpcbH | 19:05 |
LjL | "[Boris Johnson] expressed sorrow after the total UK death toll exceeded 100,000 on nearly every metric" | 19:16 |
LjL | 100,000 dead, and 100,000 deceased, also 100,000 passed away, as well as 100,000 gone forever? | 19:16 |
DocScrutinizer05 | LjL: many thanks! :-) | 19:16 |
DocScrutinizer05 | (2 up) yeah indeed, >>nearly every metric<< what the hell? | 19:19 |
bin_bash | lol l | 19:45 |
bin_bash | LjL** | 19:45 |
raccoon_dog | I think it's bad, bad phrasing. Like it was maybe the highest percentage of people infected that ended up dying, the highest percentage per population density, etc. | 19:53 |
raccoon_dog | I'm guessing that's what's meant with "nearly every metric" here. | 19:53 |
LjL | they probably had two different things in mind and they got mangled into one | 19:58 |
LjL | de-facto, oh you'll love this comment, "The government’s proposed mandatory hotel quarantine measures for travellers arriving from high-risk countries could wipe out nearly £548m a day from the UK economy in lost travel, according to the World Travel and Tourism Council (WTTC)." | 20:00 |
raccoon_dog | > £548m a day | 20:02 |
raccoon_dog | wat | 20:02 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I call BS | 20:03 |
DocScrutinizer05 | Arsanerit: de-facto: https://i.imgur.com/Uzp4Cld.png suggests R_eff=0.7 from a week ago to today | 20:14 |
LjL | i don't know, it's just a random and unimportant number to me | 20:26 |
LjL | it seems pretty obvious you should stop flights or at *least* quarantine people from countries at high risk | 20:26 |
LjL | tourism industry can start blabbering about billions and trillions, it doesn't matter | 20:26 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/coronavirus: Dr. Anthony Fauci applauds Moderna's program to create COVID-19 booster for South African variant (10101 votes) | https://www.newsweek.com/dr-anthony-fauci-applauds-modernas-program-create-covid-19-booster-south-african-variant-1564215 | https://redd.it/l5cynm | 20:34 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +33072 cases (now 2.6 million), +591 deaths (now 56799) since a day ago — Italy: +10584 cases (now 2.5 million), +541 deaths (now 86422) since a day ago — France: +556 deaths (now 73949) since 18 hours ago | 20:43 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Mozambique: +1274 cases (now 34055) since 21 hours ago | 21:20 |
Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: Covid-19: UK deaths likely to come down slowly, Whitty warns: There will be "a lot more deaths" before the effect of vaccines is felt, England's chief medical officer says. → https://is.gd/FmflNv | 21:34 |
Brainstorm | New from FDA Press Releases: FDA: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: January 26, 2021 → https://is.gd/pSwvEa | 21:59 |
Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Johnson & Johnson Covid vaccine results 'next week': CFO: Johnson & Johnson expects to report results from the eagerly-anticipated clinical trial of its COVID-19 vaccine next week, the US pharmaceutical's chief financial officer told CNBC Tuesday. → https://is.gd/3we1ku | 22:12 |
DocScrutinizer05 | yes, I heard in TV news today that JJ is about to "deliver" | 22:20 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +3955 cases (now 959979) since 22 hours ago | 22:22 |
mjensen[m] | My question regarding the duplicate post situation is this, is there a benefit to re-posting the same article if it has changes or a modified timestamp? Personally, I won't go back and read it again but maybe some here do. | 22:23 |
mjensen[m] | It seems like de-duplicating based solely on URL would be enough. (at least for me) | 22:25 |
LjL | Please just read the backscroll | 22:26 |
DocScrutinizer05 | megakenny[m]: no benefit. And it's fixed | 22:27 |
mjensen[m] | sorry, I skimmed through the history.. I'll go read it more carefully | 22:27 |
DocScrutinizer05 | oops sorry, wrong nick | 22:28 |
LjL | I deduplicate based on URL, ID, string, as well as other thing. The code is, or hopefully was, buggy, and remains ugly, but I don't need to be repeatedly told to compare something against something else, I can figure that easily enough on my own... It's not like it's *meant* to post duplicates | 22:30 |
Arsanerit | DocScrutinizer05: Can we trust those numbers? | 22:36 |
Arsanerit | Why are people still allowed to quarantaine at home? Hotels are empty. Is it too much to ask people who insist on travelling under the present conditions to spend their two week quarantaine in a hotel where they pay regular market rates for full-board lodging including room service for all meals? | 22:38 |
Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pandemic Earnings of World's 10 Wealthiest Men Could Buy COVID-19 Vaccines for All: Oxfam → https://is.gd/eiOztJ | 22:46 |
DocScrutinizer05 | Arsanerit: they are not completely implausible | 22:49 |
DocScrutinizer05 | the numbers that is | 22:50 |
DocScrutinizer05 | though this edge in R_eff from two days ago (~0.9) to today (0.7) is a bit less plausible | 22:52 |
Arsanerit | Let's hope it's true. | 22:53 |
DocScrutinizer05 | actually yesterday the 7d-reference R_edd was = 1 | 22:53 |
DocScrutinizer05 | s.dd.ff. | 22:53 |
DocScrutinizer05 | oh, btw. happy first birthday, german covid, may you die before you're 2 | 22:55 |
DocScrutinizer05 | Arsanerit: we really shouldn't look at daily changes, noise and jitter is too high in that. You could read the numbers like "a few thousand reported one day early, and so the previous R_eff was too high and today's R_eff is too low. | 23:01 |
Arsanerit | DocScrutinizer05: Yes. | 23:01 |
DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I nevertheless did, I'm also eagerly hoping for any good signs | 23:01 |
Arsanerit | German covid will not die before it's 2, but hopefully it will be under control before then. | 23:01 |
Arsanerit | The news outlets also report numbers daily, even if they sometimes say "numbers not meaningful" then still report them. | 23:02 |
DocScrutinizer05 | today was particularly bad - they claimed "we're down from a max of >33k to 6k now" which is BS | 23:03 |
LjL | Here it's "slight decrease in infection today" followed by explaining that there were fewer tests and so the ratio is actually higher, meaning no decrease at all. But they start by saying that Anyway | 23:03 |
DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, news are more and more silly and BS | 23:04 |
DocScrutinizer05 | I been aware of this quite a while ago already, that's when I started my own stats on http://reisenweber.net/et_al/covid/covid19_statistics.htm | 23:05 |
Arsanerit | DocScrutinizer05: Thanks | 23:09 |
DocScrutinizer05 | yw | 23:09 |
Arsanerit | Is there somewhere where the test positive rate is nicely visualised, rather than hidden in an XLS file on the RKI website? | 23:09 |
Brainstorm | New from StatNews: U.S. will have enough Covid-19 vaccines for 300 million Americans by end of summer, Biden says: Biden plans to purchase enough vaccines from Pfizer and Moderna to fully vaccinate 300 million Americans by the end of summer 2021, the administration said Tuesday. → https://is.gd/VFT4QP | 23:10 |
DocScrutinizer05 | Arsanerit: I didn't see any yet | 23:10 |
de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/SqrbY44 https://i.imgur.com/2NUxZkr.png source: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Projekte_RKI/Nowcasting.html | 23:16 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: Germany COVID-19: Daily Incidence and Reproduction - Album on Imgur | 23:16 |
de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/D0MKmsi https://i.imgur.com/dqA6Vgd.png source: https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Projekte_RKI/Nowcasting.html | 23:17 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: Germany COVID-19: Zoomed Daily Incidence and Reproduction - Album on Imgur | 23:17 |
Arsanerit | DocScrutinizer05: is that from the spreadsheets? | 23:19 |
Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +58 deaths (now 9204) since 19 hours ago | 23:25 |
de-facto | .title https://imgur.com/a/xYRlzzc https://i.imgur.com/mR8zJEO.png source: https://www.intensivregister.de/#/aktuelle-lage/zeitreihen | 23:32 |
Brainstorm | de-facto: From imgur.com: Germany COVID-19: Occupied ICU beds and daily change - Album on Imgur | 23:32 |
DocScrutinizer05 | Arsanerit: hm, what exactly? or was that a nick-expand-fail? | 23:33 |
Brainstorm | New from NPR: California Health Secretary On Lifting Stay-At-Home Orders And Vaccinations: California Health and Human Services Secretary Dr. Mark Ghaly talked with NPR about why the state eased some COVID-19 restrictions and addressed the relatively slow vaccine rollout. → https://is.gd/znW1M6 | 23:35 |
Arsanerit | DocScrutinizer05: Yes. | 23:36 |
Arsanerit | de-facto: Are those plots from the spreadsheets? | 23:36 |
de-facto | yes | 23:39 |
de-facto | from the source i linked | 23:39 |
CoronaBot | 04/r/covid19: Moderna Provides U.S. COVID-19 Vaccine Supply Update (82 votes) | https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-provides-us-covid-19-vaccine-supply-update/ | https://redd.it/l5fabg | 23:42 |
Arsanerit | I tried to open those spreadsheets but failed. | 23:46 |
Arsanerit | goodnight | 23:46 |
de-facto | huh? its just xlsx | 23:51 |
de-facto | you need LibreOffice or MS Office for that | 23:51 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!