libera/##covid-19/ Friday, 2021-03-05

LjLde-facto, did we know about this one? https://covid-statistics.jrc.ec.europa.eu/RMeasures  EU COVID restriction measures per country, although i don't think there's an API and they require you to click "I have read..." before seeing them00:34
LjLhttps://covid-statistics.jrc.ec.europa.eu/ more in general00:34
LjLit has a collection of papers too, not sure on which basis they're chosen00:34
de-factowow that looks awesome00:35
de-factoi found some eu site a while ago but i cant remember those two in particular00:35
LjLJRC has some well-hidden webpages00:35
LjLde-facto, i was consulting it now because of https://webcritech.jrc.ec.europa.eu/ which is basically the EU's tsunami warning... except not public, while the public ones are really just empty00:36
de-factowow from the first article i did not understand one sentence that isrealnationalnews omg00:37
LjL(go to TAD Server and see the buoys, or TAT New Web and see calculations for every important earthquake included today's one, if you click on "completed" it gives you a directory of files, everything's there except they seem to have removed the actual web page they used to have for it)00:37
LjL(see what i mean by "well-hidden" :P)00:37
de-factothose are a bunch of really nice links maybe you should archive them00:40
de-factothe *.eu of course00:40
BrainstormNew from The Lancet (Online): [Articles] Azithromycin for community treatment of suspected COVID-19 in people at increased risk of an adverse clinical course in the UK (PRINCIPLE): a randomised, controlled, open-label, adaptive platform trial: Our findings do not justify the routine use of azithromycin for reducing time to recovery or risk of [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/3bAaIw00:40
LjLah i thought i had something00:43
LjL%links jrc00:43
BrainstormLjL, https://covid-19-diagnostics.jrc.ec.europa.eu/ (COVID-19 In Vitro Diagnostic Devices and Test Methods Database) by the European Commission00:43
LjLclose but not the same00:43
de-factoidk LjL its not directly a documented api, but if you watch the dev tools of your browser while clicking on different countries it fetches some json for it e.g. https://covid-statistics.jrc.ec.europa.eu/api/Measure/getMeasuresGraph/ITA/2020-02-01/2021-03-05/000000000/all00:44
BrainstormUpdates for Ivory Coast: +691 cases (now 33976), +2 deaths (now 196) since a day ago — Germany: +11410 cases (now 2.5 million), +2 deaths (now 71713) since 22 hours ago — Canada: +2639 cases (now 878580), +21 deaths (now 22126) since 22 hours ago00:48
LjLde-facto, another one still https://covid-statistics.jrc.ec.europa.eu/QlikDashboard?sheet=multidim00:49
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Create file for links that I haven't yet fully sorted through, meant … ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/f322e97c1baa36a1af01afcc79ef01755cd934d1 )00:53
asdflkj.title https://reason.com/2021/01/18/would-a-national-lockdown-have-saved-the-u-s-from-covid-19/00:57
Brainstormasdflkj: From reason.com: Would a National Lockdown Have Saved the U.S. From COVID-19? – Reason.com00:57
asdflkj> countries that rank higher in per capita deaths than the United States include Belgium, Italy, and the U.K., all of which implemented national lockdowns. Sweden, which eschewed broad restrictions last spring, ranks lower than the United States and a bunch of European countries that imposed lockdowns but much higher than its Scandinavian neighbors00:58
asdflkj> Simple comparisons like these cannot definitively resolve the issue of how effective lockdowns were. In a National Bureau of Economic Research paper published last August, UCLA economist Andrew Atkeson and two other researchers, after looking at COVID-19 trends in 23 countries and 25 U.S. states that had seen more than 1,000 deaths from the disease by late July, found little evidence that00:59
asdflkjvariations in policy explain the course of the epidemic in different places. Other analyses have reached different conclusions.00:59
asdflkjI had no idea we had lower death rates than so many nationally-locked-down European countries01:00
LjLasdflkj, i think when making a "some countries with lockdown actually had more deaths" argument one should also look very careful at cause vs effect. italy was the first country to have a lockdown, of the type that today we'd call "very strict" for european standards. did it do it because it was a very cool country? no, it did it because it realized it was the *first* country with a big cluster of cases... and of course, those cases exploded, despite the01:01
LjLlockdown01:01
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Create file for links that I haven't yet fully sorted through, meant … → https://is.gd/KMLW2G01:01
LjLiow some lockdowns happen *because* the situation is dire, so it may be a fallacy to say "the situation became dire despite the lockdown"01:02
LjLmost european lockdowns have been reactive01:03
LjLlook at some proactive lockdowns in asia / oceania01:03
LjLalso, the EU was never *all* locked down at the same time. travel within it largely kept happening. an EU-wide lockdown would be somewhat comparable to a US-wide lockdown, while individual member states locking down is comparable to individual US states locking down, IMO01:04
asdflkjright, you can almost certainly make up *any* conclusion if you play with the stats right. but "lockdowns make little difference" is between "lockdowns work" (which seems to be the general sentiment in this channel) and "lockdowns hurt" (which you could argue, if not convincincly, based on Sweden getting better results than many non-Scandinavian countries, and the US doing better than some01:06
asdflkjlocked down parts of the EU), and is increasingly seemming like the reasonable middle ground to me01:06
asdflkjand the UCLA study looks like decent evidence to me01:07
LjLor you could say "lockdowns aren't all the same"01:08
LjLby now it's become a wildcard word for any sort of restriction that feels tighter than other restrictions01:08
LjLby the standards of italy's previous lockdown, italy is not in a lockdown now, and i believe none of the big EU countries are01:09
LjLbecause people are allowed to go to work, including non-essential jobs, plus schools are often partly open01:09
LjLi remember venturing out once during the early days of the first lockdown. it looked like a ghost town01:09
LjLnowadays it looks like a crowded town with masked people01:09
asdflkjIMO locking down nursing homes makes sense, but maybe not locking down much else01:10
asdflkjso you don’t believe any western country country has a true lockdown?01:13
asdflkjs/country country/country/01:13
LjLi can't keep tabs on all of them01:14
LjLbut Italy, France, Germany, the UK - nope01:14
LjLSpain and Portugal, probably not but not really sure atm01:14
LjLif New Zealand and Australia logically count as "western", then those have true lockdowns whenever there's a cluster, and those indubitably work01:15
asdflkjI hate that wikipedia seems to have no deaths per capita01:15
asdflkj"Fatality rate" is deaths/case, right?01:16
LjLshould be01:16
LjL"mortality rate" is deaths/population01:16
LjLif it's wikipedia, i assume someone would have been pedantic about it if it used the wrong term01:17
ubLIX[m]asdflkj is ignoring population density and travel/communication/connectedness01:17
ubLIX[m]how do you lock down a nursing home, anyway? no staff in are out. once your shift has started, you are locked in till the end of time (the pandemic will remain.. pandemic forever). no food deliveries. no transfer of residents to hospital for any kind of treatment01:17
ubLIX[m]s/are/or/01:17
asdflkjdeliver the food by drone :P01:18
asdflkjubLIX[m]: but I think it's reasonable to lockdown the nursing home while allowing 1 or 2 covid-tested delivery people, and emergency first responders (which is a small enough fraction of the population I think it's reasonable to test all of them in the nursing home's area)01:20
asdflkjBrainstorm: help01:21
Brainstormasdflkj: Please use the command %help instead01:21
LjLgood luck managing to do that in italy01:21
asdflkjLjL: what's the issue?01:21
ubLIX[m]so.. test each delivery driver, and each member of staff, then each such person must remain in solitary confinement in a known clean environment for 14 days prior to entering the nursing home?01:22
LjLif you tell the people who work at the nursing home they won't be allowed to leave, they'll all resign and leave quickly01:22
LjLit's not exactly like our nursing home are Floridan oldpeople villages01:22
LjLplus, most of the elderly population lives at home, often with younger people, not in nursing homes, so there's that small issue too01:23
LjLand you could also consider it an issue in terms of causing more deaths than other countries01:23
asdflkjubLIX[m]: sure, that's more or less reasonable when lives are at stake01:23
LjLwhich is, of course, irrespective of lockdowns01:23
ubLIX[m]O_o01:23
asdflkjubLIX[m]: if they don't value the elderly's lives they're welcome to leave01:24
LjLand if *you* don't value their lives you'd enact such a policy that makes all the staff leave01:25
asdflkjbut the staff aren't a big risk if tested and locked down01:25
ubLIX[m]asdflkj: how'd you feel about being a delivery driver who isn't allowed to come into contact with anyone at all outside the nursing home. for 2 years01:26
asdflkjubLIX[m]: they could cycle01:26
ubLIX[m]month on, month off sorta thing?01:27
asdflkjmaybe01:27
ubLIX[m]same for the nursing staff01:27
asdflkjit should be tried01:27
ubLIX[m]sounds ambitious, logistically01:27
LjLanyway, this is all very interesting but as big an issue as the nursing homes are, i don't think we can deal with COVID by just dealing with the nursing homes and nothing else01:28
asdflkjLjL: you probably know the stats better than me. aren't the elderly a plurality or even a majority of deaths?01:28
LjLyes, but01:28
asdflkjif everyone actually quits they could loosen a little (allow driver contact with regular testing and minimal contact with the residents)01:29
LjL1) deaths aren't the only issue at all. almost 50% of COVID patients have long-term issues after 6 months followup01:29
LjL2) the elderly aren't all in nursing homes. in italy, not even a plurality of them are01:29
asdflkjLjL: "long term issues" is a very broad term. I've heard of people with them doing more than good enough to appear on TV with no externally visible issues01:30
asdflkjIIRC01:30
LjLokay... being able to be on TV is now the benchmark of living with chronic symptoms?01:30
asdflkjno01:31
LjLalso, what you see on TV is the basis of... anything?01:31
asdflkjI don't watch TV01:31
LjLgreat, then let's forget about TV01:31
the-wesnext let's focus on "externally visible issues"01:32
asdflkjbut something like 60% of medical research hasn't been reproduced and "long term issues" sounds like a vague term a TV talking head would say to make something sound potentially bigger than it is01:33
asdflkjlike a clickbait headline01:33
LjLwhatever01:34
LjLi didn't take it from a clickbait headline01:34
LjLbut you know that01:34
LjLbut the research i can show you for it hasn't necessarily been reproduced01:34
LjLso why do i even bother saying things01:34
asdflkjyour point №2 is decent01:35
LjLoh why thank you01:35
asdflkjI think households can individually choose the precautions they are comfortable with01:36
LjLubLIX[m], did you see the italian here the other day?01:36
LjLasdflkj, and i think i'm glad i don't live in the US with that mindset01:36
asdflkjdon't you live in Italy?01:36
LjLi do01:37
asdflkjwe have less death where we choose to01:37
LjLthat proves exactly nothing01:37
LjLwe have the most elevators in the world01:37
asdflkjok, maybe I shouldn't even say anything01:37
LjLnot per capita, but in total. are there things that tells you?01:37
asdflkjthe US has less death than Italy per capita, no?01:38
LjLcurrently01:38
LjLit has varied, but yes01:38
LjLit's also very close01:38
asdflkjbut that's overall, I bet the less sick states are much healthier than Italy01:39
LjLindeed, it makes pretty much no sense to compare Italy to the US as if they are... comparable things01:39
LjLthanks for making my point01:39
asdflkjthere are still scattered counties with 0 deaths IIUC01:40
LjLmaybe compare Italy with a single densely populated US state where few measures have been taken01:40
LjLwell there aren't "scattered counties" in Italy01:40
asdflkjright01:40
ubLIX[m]LjL: nope. did i miss some entertainment?01:41
LjLubLIX[m], yes, feel free to pop up in my PM so i can vent on how insufferable italians are (while simultaneously maintaining i'm glad i'm here instead of the US)01:42
LjL(did i ever mention italians are hypocritical af?)01:42
asdflkjthe EU kinda has scattered countries, the UK scattered itself right out01:43
asdflkjand of course the US population comes from people scattering themselves away from other countries (some maybe millenia ago over the Alaskan land bridge, many from Europe more recently)01:47
LjLscattered countRies isn't quite the same as scattered counties, eh01:50
asdflkjit's similar01:50
LjL... no01:50
asdflkjmy county has almost 30× the population of Liechtenstein01:51
asdflkj(to cherrypick a small country)01:51
LjL(which isn't in the EU)01:52
asdflkjoops :P01:52
asdflkjI guess that probably plays to a stereotype how much we USians know know about little futbol countries :P01:54
asdflkjwow, I never realized the EU has a tiny hole in it there, and a big one to the east01:55
LjLanyway, the point from my side is, there might be godforsaken tiny towns somewhere in italy where COVID has barely hit i suppose (maybe), but not to the scale to which there are rural places in the US. mostly, we all live densely, usually in apartment buildings, which is why we have so many elevators. if your idea of "every household choosing their precautions" is a self-standing house with a private garden, a garage, and curbside pickup for grocery, well,01:55
LjLthat is just not what Italy is like, but if we're talking about the US, i'd point out it's also not what all the US is like, so telling someone from NYC to just pick up curbside, they'd probably look at you "?"01:55
asdflkjwell I live in a suburb and I know people who moved out of the inner city01:56
LjLsuburbs of the typical US kind mostly just don't exist in the EU01:57
asdflkjgiven the stats it seems like an effective escape from COVID to scatter oneself out of the EU or a city and move to a rural town in the US01:58
asdflkj(if that's legal)01:58
LjLin Italy, and i think in several EU countries it's similar, suburbs equate to the poorer parts of the population, and they're even *bigger* apartment blocks01:58
asdflkjthat's interesting01:59
LjLyou're just trolling. you're still one of the most affected (deaths per capita) countries in the world, and you're going to tell me that it's "an effective escape from COVID" to move to the US?01:59
asdflkj*a rural town in the US*01:59
LjLbecause you have 1606 per million instead of 1645 or something?01:59
asdflkjyou're not acting in great faith to omit the "rural"02:00
LjLyeah well there are 450m people in the EU, let's ask Biden if it's legal for all of us to inundate your rural town :P you asked, but you know the answer02:00
asdflkjjust send everyone scared of covid to see how US country hicks like them, and leave the swedish behind :P02:01
asdflkjyou'll feel very safe, we have more guns than people /s02:03
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +4799 cases (now 1.1 million), +45 deaths (now 15769) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +8 deaths (now 10022) since 23 hours ago02:03
LjLi'm scared of guns, a gunshot may make my tinnitus worse02:05
asdflkjit's just a bit under 10× the per capita civilian ownership of Czechia apparently02:05
asdflkjmy dad has hearing issues in one ear from shooting without good protection as a kid IIUC02:06
LjL:(02:06
LjLthe J&J trial had 6 cases of tinnitus, vs 0 in the placebo arm. they consider it not enough to count as signal in the noise, but now i have another reason not to want J&J :P02:07
asdflkjto me gunshots just bring nostalgia of scout camp02:08
LjLit was similar numbers with the Bell's palsy... and apparently we'll never really know whether the vaccine does increase the odds, since adverse reaction reports post-trial basically cannot be scaled to any sensible denominator or compared to any sensible group02:08
asdflkjI remember walking a mile or two around a lake to do archery next to the rifle range, and hearing the shotgun range come over the water02:09
asdflkjwe took the whole first class to be reminded this was the most dangerous thing the majority of us who had never driven a car had ever done, and learn safety precautions, including never approaching the range until people there saw us and paused the shooting, then immediately putting on hearing protection. which worked, the rest of camp was fun. best adolescent memories02:14
LjLyou know you're in a hunting area in italy when you see roadsigns being all dented by bullets02:17
LjLi guess they make good targets02:17
LjLplus, no italian would miss a good chance to vandalize something public, it's part of the national identity02:18
asdflkjthere are definetely parts of the US like that02:19
asdflkjI've never been hunting before. there's a slight chance I might this summer02:20
asdflkjgood way to get protein without covid I guess02:20
LjLjust wear your mask. you don't know which mammals may be susceptible to COVID :P02:20
LjLjinxed it02:21
asdflkjif I have it they can't give me it. maybe a good long term hunting method02:21
asdflkj(not counting mutations, they can't give me a variant I gave them)02:21
LjLso you're going to sneak up on deer and then cough at them?02:22
asdflkjme, it's a secondary weapon to complement my others02:22
asdflkjmeh*02:23
asdflkjbiological warfare mine02:23
BrainstormUpdates for Paraguay: +1439 cases (now 164310), +17 deaths (now 3256) since 23 hours ago02:28
LjLthe Matrix bridge is just adorable02:49
asdflkjit's going to take a while to become the galactic singularity (but it might https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1782:_Team_Chat)02:54
BrainstormUpdates for France: +32788 cases (now 3.9 million), +293 deaths (now 87835) since 22 hours ago — United Kingdom: +4902 cases (now 4.2 million), +221 deaths (now 124025) since 22 hours ago — Germany: +296 deaths (now 72007) since 11 hours ago02:59
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: Disney World workers get spit on, yelled at, and pushed trying to enforce COVID safety rules → https://is.gd/RjEhpf03:38
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: COVID-19 vaccine confidence grows as side effect worries fade → https://is.gd/abO4tt03:49
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Over 7K virus mutations reported, Covid-appropriate behaviour key to stop spread, say scientists → https://is.gd/ZuLAca03:59
LjLSpec, ubLIX[m] https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ly1t6k/covid19_vaccine_confidence_grows_as_side_effect/ re the comment of "Rampant fucking stupidity. Call it what it was. Thousands and then MILLIONS of people were vaccinated and people were still like "I dunno""04:00
LjLcan't anyone, on either side of this, take a break?04:00
LjLlike04:00
LjLconfidence that they have no side effects of note is going up, because more people are getting them, and not dying04:00
LjLbefore, confidence was low, because we knew just about nothing about them04:00
LjLhow is this stupid or anything04:00
LjLcan we *really* just say that people are stupid for being wary of vaccines that, admittedly, had never been developed this fast before04:01
LjLnot even close04:01
finely[m]Gates foundation pressured Oxford into not releasing their vaccine free of charge to any manufactor. When more dangerous covid variants arise in low and middle income to threaten us all in the next 2-3 years, we will know whose 'charity' work is to blame.04:15
finely[m]https://khn.org/news/rather-than-give-away-its-covid-vaccine-oxford-makes-a-deal-with-drugmaker/04:15
LjLfinely[m], where can i find corroboration that this (the Gates "mentoring" in particular, since i suppose i can find evidence of Oxford being paid by AstraZeneca) actually took place? that article has a paucity of cited sources04:29
bin_bashI can't find anything reputable to back that up04:40
bin_bashbut I did find this: https://fortune.com/2021/01/25/astrazeneca-covid-vaccines-europe-deliveries-south-africa-price/04:40
BrainstormNew from Politico: Beware sexually transmitted infections and super-strong vaccines: A British MP becomes the face of French health care, and Viktor Orbán gets his Chinese coronavirus shot. → https://is.gd/wnMy4F04:41
LjLbin_bash, no doubt it's being quite a shitshow04:42
bin_bashyeah04:43
the-westhis is the owner of the khn website: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/kaiser-family-foundation/04:44
the-westhey claim it's legit04:44
bin_bashhmmm04:46
bin_bashbut they don't provide any source04:46
bin_bashusually when you make a claim like that you have to back it up04:46
LjLthe-wes, yeah i did some background check, Wikipedia also speaks okayily of them04:47
LjLbut what bin_bash said04:47
LjLthey do also cover various COVID things, so it might be an interesting site04:47
the-wesso far I haven't really found any other outlandish claims from them04:50
the-wesyou can list all articles from the same author, nothing standing out terribly much there04:53
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: GOP Sen. Johnson delays Covid relief bill by forcing all 628 pages to be read out loud → https://is.gd/BqsCox05:02
bin_bashsure, and I'm not saying "that's definitely 100% false" I'm just saying "what's the source for that claim?"05:02
bin_bashwhich is not unreasonable.05:02
the-wesyup, I'm with you. just trying to explore all the usual avenues of trying to determine the veracity of a claim05:22
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Johnson & Johnson Vaccine Did Use Aborted Fetal Cell Lines: What Does This Mean? → https://is.gd/8XFaHG05:54
CoronaBot/r/covid19: Increased Risk of Hospitalisation Associated with Infection with SARS-CoV-2 Lineage B.1.1.7 in Denmark (84 votes) | https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3792894 | https://redd.it/lxu6ek05:56
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China's Sinopharm to raise vaccine production to 3 billion per year → https://is.gd/ZAaV3306:35
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: India stands ready to work with UN to ensure supply of COVID-19 vaccines in Syria → https://old.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/ly50dx/india_stands_ready_to_work_with_un_to_ensure/06:45
BrainstormUpdates for Belgium: +2643 cases (now 780251), +27 deaths (now 22196) since 23 hours ago06:50
BrainstormNew preprint: Ribosome-profiling reveals restricted post transcriptional ex-pression of antiviral cytokines and transcription factors during SARS-CoV-2 infection by Marina R Alexander et al, made available as preprint on 2021-03-04 at https://biorxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2021.03.03.433675 [... want %more?]06:57
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Bolsonaro tells Brazilians to 'stop whining' as Covid19 deaths spike. → https://is.gd/GarUH607:27
CoronaBot/r/covid19: SARS-CoV-2 on Ocular Surfaces in a Cohort of Patients With COVID-19 From the Lombardy Region, Italy (80 votes) | https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaophthalmology/fullarticle/2777178 | https://redd.it/lxog3l07:32
BrainstormUpdates for Zhytomyr Oblast, Ukraine: +888 cases (now 52854), +10 deaths (now 861) since a day ago — Vinnytsia Oblast, Ukraine: +827 cases (now 39067), +3 deaths (now 688) since a day ago — Biobio, Chile: +735 cases (now 75073), +15 deaths (now 1302) since a day ago — Zakarpattia Oblast, Ukraine: +679 cases (now 42091), +13 deaths (now 956) since a day ago07:41
najari[m]<Arsanerit "najari: that's the number of dos"> they gave out 109.2% doses?07:48
najari[m]In ref to Gibraltar has vaccinated its population 109.2% https://covidvax.org , why?07:49
najari[m]The following chart shows the share of the total population that has been fully vaccinated against COVID-19. This represents the share that have received all doses prescribed by the vaccination protocol. If a person receives the first dose of a 2-dose vaccine, this metric stays the same. If they receive the second dose, the metric goes up by 1.08:16
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: California Governor Gavin Newsom to suspend all beer and liquor sales until the state has control of COVID-19 → https://is.gd/zoKyrl08:28
\mSgI lookeed at the "Our World In Data" raw dataset, and it seems they're using the "Total Vaccinations Per Hundred" instead of "People Fully Vaccinated Per Hundred" column.08:34
\mSgfully vax is 41.8508:34
\mSgOf course, it's a very small nation, and who knows how old their census data is...or how many visitors were vax'd...could also be factors...08:35
BrainstormNew from Politico: Australia asks Commission to review Italy’s Oxford/AstraZeneca export block: 'In Italy, people are dying at the rate of 300 a day,' PM Scott Morrison acknowledges, while in Australia there were just 2 locally acquired cases of coronavirus in the past week. → https://is.gd/gKYlGr08:49
CoronaBot/r/covid19: The SARS-CoV-2 receptor-binding domain preferentially recognizes blood group A (80 votes) | https://ashpublications.org/bloodadvances/article/5/5/1305/475250/The-SARS-CoV-2-receptor-binding-domain | https://redd.it/lx4hqw08:57
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Amid pandemic, pope goes to Iraq to rally fading Christians → https://is.gd/Bw6Y2U09:10
CoronaBot/r/coronavirus: U.S. Vaccination Pace Increases to 2 Million Doses a Day (10023 votes) | https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/03/04/world/covid-19-coronavirus#the-united-states-is-now-averaging-2-million-vaccine-doses-administered-per-day | https://redd.it/lxvh4j09:15
Arsanerit2021-03-05 07:48:28##covid-19: < najari[m]> <Arsanerit "najari: that's the number of dos"> they gave out 109.2% doses?09:24
Arsaneritnajari[m]: Possible, yes.  If everybody needs two doses to be vaccinated, then to vaccinate 100% of the population fully you need 200% doses.09:24
Arsaneritnajari[m]: But if it means people with full vaccination then it wouldn't make sense.09:25
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: New Zealand to end COVID-19 lockdown on largest city: New Zealand will lift a COVID-19 lockdown on nearly two million people on Sunday, as authorities say they are confident that a virus cluster in the country's largest city has been contained. → https://is.gd/evsh4c10:13
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: UK Home Office housed asylum seekers in barracks 'despite knowing Covid risk' → https://is.gd/EtIS1710:34
BrainstormUpdates for Papua New Guinea: +127 cases (now 1492), +2 deaths (now 16) since 3 days ago10:48
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid-19: Ministers urged to give NHS 'heroes' better pay rise: Unions call a proposed 1% increase a "kick in the teeth" after Covid, but ministers say money is tight. → https://is.gd/taV0fp10:56
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Veterinary medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Gumbohatch, avian infectious bursal disease vaccine (live), Date of authorisation: 12/11/2019, Revision: 2, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/y8GIA511:07
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: PIP: Opinion/decision on a Paediatric investigation plan (PIP): Dexamethasone sodium phosphate encapsulated in human autologous erythrocytes, decision type: , therapeutic area: , PIP number: P/0211/2020 → https://is.gd/35YBnJ11:17
Jan-", but ministers say money is tight" isn't money going to be tight for the next century based on this11:24
finely[m]<LjL "finely, where can i find corrobo"> You are right to be spectical in general, but especially with the wacky Gates conspiracy theories around. Here is another source:11:31
finely[m]<Jan- "", but ministers say money is ti"> Not if governments follow modern monetary theory.11:35
Jan-I suspect that's going to be one of several arguments to just print money.11:37
Jan-Which I don't necessarily disagree with11:37
Jan-But I'd like to hear the details.11:37
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid: Bolsonaro tells Brazilians to ‘stop whining’ as deaths spike → https://is.gd/IFls5t11:39
* finely[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/rgXdqviqnMFTMpJDuxmivOct/message.txt >11:46
* finely[m] sent a long message: < https://matrix.org/_matrix/media/r0/download/matrix.org/GLQEDbKfruspoeqnRfMnyQQs/message.txt >11:50
Jan-Oh that thing.11:51
Jan-I suspect that might be not entirely true.11:51
Jan-I think it might be somewhat true, about debt being not that big a deal11:52
Jan-although there is a line of thought that begins "eventually..."11:52
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: PIP: Opinion/decision on a Paediatric investigation plan (PIP): Multivalent, live, recombinant, non-replicating in human cells, Modified Vaccinia Ankara vectored vaccine, expressing the EBOV Mayinga glycoprotein, the Sudan virus Gulu GP, the Marburg virus Musoke GP, and the Taï Forest virus nucleoprotein [MVA-BN-Filo], [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/OsESkK12:10
BrainstormNew from NPR: Australia Asks European Commission To Review Italy's Block On Vaccine Shipments: The blocked shipment of AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccines was the first intervention by the EU since the bloc approved rules that could restrict vaccine exports to non-member nations. → https://is.gd/J8c4qY12:20
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Australia asks EU to review its AstraZeneca vaccine shipment block, Japan wary → https://is.gd/ER4Jl612:40
BrainstormNew from ECDC: Communicable disease threats report, 28 February-6 March 2021: The ECDC Communicable Disease Threats Report (CDTR) is a weekly bulletin for epidemiologists and health professionals on active public health threats. This issue of the ECDC Communicable Disease Threats Report (CDTR) covers the period 28 February-6 March 2021 and includes [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/bFi4Xx13:22
CoronaBot/r/covid19: Just 2% of SARS-CoV-2-positive individuals carry 90% of the virus circulating in communities (81 votes) | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.01.21252250v1 | https://redd.it/ly9nqb14:05
BrainstormNew from WHO Euro: WHO/Europe launches caregiver skills training in Kazakhstan to support children with neurodevelopmental delays: Physical isolation has negatively affected the mental health of many people worldwide during the COVID-19 pandemic. For children with neurodevelopmental delays and disorders (NDD), as well as their parents who already lived [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/vE73r714:37
Peasant65It's shitty that we (the eu) restricts access to vaccines for the rest of the world :(15:05
asdflkjdon't you need them the most?15:16
asdflkjbut you're free to donate to change that. I donate to my church¹ which is "the single largest private sector donor to date to support UNICEF’s ACT Accelerator and COVAX work"² ¹disclaimer: any trollisness and all of my imperfections are my own despite my church not becuase of them, see /usr/share/games/fortunes/disclaimer for details15:21
asdflkj²https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/latter-day-saint-charities-unicef-covid-19-response15:21
ArsaneritPeasant65: Yet the UK and the US don't export any vaccines at all...15:23
ArsaneritI think this is the first time I've seen footnotes being used on IRC.15:23
asdflkjPeasant65: you can donate at https://donate.churchofjesuschrist.org/donations/church/humanitarian-services/humanitarian-aid-fund15:23
asdflkjlol yay15:24
* asdflkj considers applying for guiness world record15:24
ArsaneritVery few cases in Iceland now15:25
asdflkj> becuase15:25
asdflkjoops15:26
asdflkjtop tier irony15:26
Peasant65I know we're not the only ones that hog vaccines. But i'm part of europe that makes it sting a little.15:27
asdflkjamerica's been all "America first" but I don't feel guilty because we're the most charitable country in the world and I donate above the national average15:29
ArsaneritI don't think Canada and Australia are looking for charity, just for the ability to buy vaccines when they don't have domestic production.15:32
BrainstormNew from StatNews: STAT+: Pharmalittle: Serum CEO warns of shortage of vaccine components; EU to extend Covid-19 export scheme: The head of the Serum Institute of India, the world’s biggest vaccine maker, said manufacturers of Covid-19 shots face a global shortage of raw materials needed to churn out the… → https://is.gd/jQ2vKj15:32
asdflkjI thought LjL was saying Australia was a model for lockdown so I assumed they were doing well15:33
asdflkjCanada has a pretty thin population density, but I can imagine covid being bad in the cities15:34
asdflkjCanada has a pretty thin population density *overall*15:34
asdflkjaverage15:34
ArsaneritAustralia is doing well with lockdown, but depends on EU to buy Biontech, Moderna, or AstraZeneca vaccines.15:35
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +1222 cases (now 562290), +17 deaths (now 10036) since 23 hours ago15:54
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Veterinary medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Purevax FeLV, vaccine against feline leukaemia, Date of authorisation: 13/04/2000, Revision: 12, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/f3AxhU16:04
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +11727 cases (now 2.5 million) since 23 hours ago16:12
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Gli appuntamenti del Presidente Draghi dall&#39;8 al 19 marzo ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/gli-appuntamenti-del-presidente-draghi-dall8-al-19-marzo/16355 )16:12
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: With 3 COVID vaccines approved, is there a 'best' shot?: Americans love to have choices, and now there are three COVID-19 vaccines approved for use in the United States. → https://is.gd/XH2LOt16:16
BrainstormUpdates for Chile: +5331 cases (now 845450), +90 deaths (now 20928) since 22 hours ago16:37
BrainstormNew from Shane Crotty: @profshanecrotty: I agree! Good news that people infected w/ B1351 (SA variant) make good neutralizing antibodies to that variant and 'regular' SARS2. I was very excited when I saw this presented by @sigallab. It is another good sign that a variant booster vaccine is likely to work & have breadth. → https://is.gd/xMR8Jm16:38
de-facto.title https://www.nature.com/articles/s41436-020-01077-716:45
Brainstormde-facto: From www.nature.com: Deletion of the NKG2C receptor encoding KLRC2 gene and HLA-E variants are risk factors for severe COVID-19 | Genetics in Medicine16:45
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Mathematical model of SARS-CoV-2 UK variant suggests it could be 43–90% more transmissible: A team of researchers led by a group at the Centre for Mathematical Modelling of Infectious Diseases, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, has found evidence suggesting that the U.K. variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus could be [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/s08VDm16:59
de-factooh and my fits were 144%-180% hence 44%-80% more transmissible than 100%17:10
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): DNA Damage and Oxidative Stress in Hospitalized COVID-19 Patients → https://is.gd/2cTlIT17:10
LjLasdflkj: Australia *is* doing well, doesn't mean they don't need / want vaccines to return to decent life http://offloop.net/covid19/?default=Australia17:27
LjLYou should feel ashamed you made me load that site on the phone17:28
LjLAlso I better not comment on your views of America17:28
ArsaneritIceland appears to be doing quite well too.17:29
asdflkjyeah, that site freezes my desktop browser. any better one?17:29
Arsanerithttp://cr.yp.to will not free any browser17:29
asdflkjlast year I checked covid stats daily with some curl-able service17:30
asdflkjArsanerit: does it have covid stats?17:31
LjLAnyway you know what, rmonten[m]  as well, I don't feel guilty either for blocking exports to Australia. They *are* doing decent, and we are not at all. It's probably their own merit for doing things more properly, but doesn't change the fact that if you told Italians that during the disastrous situation we have, and with barely any vaccines available, we're exporting them to Australia where the situation is kinda under control... Well they wouldn't be happy17:31
Arsaneritasdflkj: no17:31
LjLMaybe after we all get vaccinated we can do a bit of charity here and there to quench any lingering sense of guilt17:31
ArsaneritLjL: Do you think the EU should only export vaccines to countries that do not have the situation kind of under control?17:32
LjLArsanerit: it would make more sense to prioritize that way, yes. Which conveniently means that for the time being, we should export to ourselves.17:33
ArsaneritAre the AstraZeneca, Moderna, Johnson&Johnson, and Biontech vaccines produced anywhere else than US, UK, EU?17:36
de-factoi partly agree with that, since vaccines mostly protect from severe progressions and fatal outcome it makes sense to concentrate those resources on where the effect of them is the most: in areas with high incidence where elderly and risk groups have such threads to their health and life17:36
ArsaneritI'm surprised no Swiss company is prominent among the vaccines.17:36
asdflkj> Also I better not comment on your views of America < I know our government commits some serious crimes against humanity (war crimes, torture, etc.) but we do try to limit them as much as we common people can limit such a massive powerful force and hopefully there's some improvement in some areas compared to previous superpowers like the Roman Empire (with its mass crucifixions17:37
asdflkjhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crucifixion#Society_and_law)17:37
LjLArsanerit, India is the country producing the most AZ17:37
rmonten[m]LjL: Yeah, Australia's reaction was surprisingly generous in my opinion. They are doing well and they contented themselves to pointing it out. I'm sure they'll be receiving more vaccines soon. This move wasn't directed against them, but to put pressure on Astrazeneca.17:37
de-factobut also since noone of the other vaccine producers is sharing its important to share at least some minor amounts to countries that dont have a production running yet (e.g. AUstralia, Canada etc) in order for them to at least vaccinate their most high priority groups such as medical personal etc17:37
ArsaneritLjL: Aha, interesting.17:37
de-factobasically i think a fair compromise could save the most damage to health and life globally17:38
Arsaneritasdflkj: Congratulations on not crucifying people.17:38
rmonten[m]I read somewhere that the EU has exported 8 million doses since the end of January, when the oversight regulations came into effect, so that's not nothing.17:38
LjLArsanerit, and of course there's Sputnik V which you haven't mentioned by a few countries (including EU countries that are technically breaching their promise to stick to EU agreements) are buying17:38
LjLothers are probably buying China's vaccines but i'm not really sure17:38
ArsaneritLjL: Yes, I know Russia is exporting Sputnik V, but I don't think it's produced anywhere outside Russia?17:39
asdflkjArsanerit: thanks :P17:39
de-factoso imho a black and white approach is not the right one here, we need some sort of compromise hence some shade of gray in terms of sharing vaccine production capacity because we are not alone with our problems here in EU17:39
LjLArsanerit, it's produced in South Korea17:40
rmonten[m]de-facto: I agree, it's important to eradicate this virus globally. And in the first stages, vaccinating the most vulnerable population seems to be very impactful.17:40
ArsaneritLjL: Interesting.17:40
LjLalso17:40
LjL<Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: WHO chief: waive Covid vaccine patents to put world on 'war footing' → https://is.gd/UWmFZx17:40
LjLmaybe this is kinda more important than the EU immolating itself for the sake of exporting doses to others17:40
Arsaneritrmonten[m]: I agree, but it seems many people in the EU are upset that the EU is slower in vaccinating than US and UK, and I don't see "that's because we allow exports and they don't" as an explanation very often.17:41
ArsaneritI'm all for waiving vaccine patents but how long would it take to set up mRNA vaccine production in, say, Nigeria or Brazil?  6 months?  12 months?17:41
LjLArsanerit, well that may be because it's not the primary explanation... the primary one being that AZ and, to a lesser extent, Pfizer and Moderna, are underdelivering17:42
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Safety, Tolerance and Immunogenicity of EuCorVac-19 for the Prevention of COVID-19 in Healthy Adults → https://is.gd/VQ6qJq17:42
ArsaneritLjL: It's not the primary explanation, but it's an aspect, isn't it?17:42
LjLArsanerit, 6 months or 12 months is probably even optimistic (Sanofi said they will start producing Pfizer, but not earlier than August), but if you project the vaccination completion dates for those countries, you get like 203017:42
de-factoyes investing or focusing on ramping up production rates for vaccines makes the most sense by far17:43
LjLhttps://covidvax.org/ has the projected completion dates based on current delivery rates17:43
de-factoand it is done to some extend if it is enough is still disputable imho17:43
LjL(for countries that have started, at least)17:43
LjLde-facto, it most likely isn't while patents are held jealously17:43
de-factoyeah but thats a linear extrapolation, production cap will ramp up17:43
LjLi know the present, i don't claim to predict the future17:44
LjLas i said, it's projected based on current rates17:44
de-factoi mean covidvax, they are surely underestimating vaccination rates because they assume at "current rate" hence linear increase, but the rate itself will increase with production cap17:44
de-factoyeah17:45
ArsaneritMaybe UK will finish vaccinating ahead of EU and then lift its export ban.17:45
LjL%tr <it Prendendo in considerazione il tasso di vaccinazione pari a 1.166.000 a settimana e il tasso di copertura vaccinale pari a 70.8%, dovresti ricevere il vaccino tra 10/11/2021 e 20/4/2022.17:45
de-factoprobably17:45
BrainstormLjL, Italian to English: Taking into account the vaccination rate of 1,166,000 per week and the vaccination coverage rate of 70.8%, you should receive the vaccine between 10/11/2021 and 20/4/2022. (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?]17:45
LjLthis is when i would get vaccinated based on a few parameters like my age, pathologies etc17:45
LjLhttps://www.omnicalculator.com/health/calcolatore-vaccino-italia (only good for italy as the URL indicates)17:46
LjL(but https://www.omnicalculator.com/health has some other countries)17:46
LjLArsanerit, well that would be nice since our AZ contract *says* that we are meant to receive doses from the UK plants, as it was basically written when the UK was still functionally part of the EU (a silly assumption on the EU's part, of course, like many others in their contracts apparently)17:47
de-facto167k vaccinations or vaccine doses per day in Italy?17:47
de-factothat should be one order of magnitude more i guess (and hopefully will be possible with production cap upgrades?)17:48
LjLde-facto, 1.7 million, and per week, but i dunno17:48
LjLprobably vaccinations given what this thing is meant to calculate17:48
LjLbut i don't think this one is saying that 1.7 million per week *is* the current rate (it isn't)17:49
de-factobtw those numbers are similar to Germany but Italy got smaller population17:49
LjLthis one projects based on a few things that are still unknown, since, officially, nobody knows when i will get vaccinated, as there is not a plan for younger people yet17:50
de-factoGermany got 138% of the population of Italy but similar vaccination rates, hence Italy is ahead with vaccinaitons17:50
LjLde-facto, for now we are giving less than a million doses a week17:50
LjLbut yes, Italy is just ahead of Germany on covidvax17:51
LjLit's just the whole EU that's doing badly17:51
de-factothere is the portal for Germany https://impfdashboard.de/ (in German lang)17:51
LjLkeep in mind it's not really *Italy* that's withholding doses from export to Australia17:51
LjLit's Italy because we are the last step in producing AZ17:51
LjLbut it's a move that was approved by the EC17:51
de-factoyeah17:52
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Evaluation of Muscle Strength, Functional Independence, Myalgia, Fatigue and Dyspnea in COVID-19 Infection → https://is.gd/YZ6ErA17:53
de-factoits very good that we have production capacity in EU for vaccines, we really should concentrate all our resources on improving production cap and rates17:53
rmonten[m]Right, and we should start an assessment of the full production chain (bare resources to finished product) to anticipate new bottlenecks in the near future and to become strategically more independent in the long run.18:01
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express (Health): Art and Culture: Dutch artist uses ultraviolet light to zap coronavirus → https://is.gd/pw8nHk18:04
BrainstormNew from Virological.org: Latest posts: Preliminary in silico assessment of the specificity of published molecular assays and design of new assays using the available whole genome sequences of 2019-nCoV: Updated to 669,911 COVID-19 WGS from GISAID. Table 1. Results from PSET analysis. The five Noblis assays were compared alongside the four assays from [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/brCBxW18:45
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV: China's COVID-19 vaccine production capacity may cover 40% of population by mid-2021: disease control head → https://is.gd/DfNQsb19:06
BrainstormUpdates for Italy: +24010 cases (now 3.0 million), +297 deaths (now 99271) since 23 hours ago — Isle of Man: +59 cases (now 605) since a day ago — Netherlands: +4496 cases (now 1.1 million), +33 deaths (now 15794) since 21 hours ago — Switzerland: +20 deaths (now 10041) since 20 hours ago19:07
BrainstormNew from Our World In Data: Emerging COVID-19 success story: Vietnam’s commitment to containment: Vietnam is one country which has responded well to the Coronavirus pandemic. How did they do so? In-country experts provide key insights. → https://is.gd/0PAUJ919:17
LjL<Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Under intense pressure, WHO skips summary report on coronavirus origin. → https://is.gd/zRyDxG19:24
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Vaccinated NHS staff numbers vary across England → https://is.gd/13ssNJ19:27
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pollution fears over mink buried after Covid culling in Denmark → https://is.gd/blWPUV19:38
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada Clears Johnson & Johnson Vaccine, First to Approve 4 → https://is.gd/p07qQj19:59
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): Pandemic Talk with Mexican Man: submitted by /u/ThicAndSporty to r/CoronaVirus_2019_nCoV → https://is.gd/Oh0h8520:09
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Stop 'whining,' Bolsonaro tells Brazilians after record Covid deaths → https://is.gd/c1q2TQ20:20
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Don't waste the hope of vaccines, warns WHO: Covax will distribute 14.4 million COVID-19 vaccine doses to 31 more countries next week, the WHO said Friday as it warned people not to waste, through complacency, the hope that vaccines bring. → https://is.gd/XxKFdR20:40
BrainstormNew from FDA Press Releases: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: FDA Issues Authorization for First Molecular Non-Prescription, At-Home Test: FDA issues an EUA for the Cue COVID-19 Test for Home and OTC Use, a molecular nucleic acid amplification test and the first molecular test authorized for OTC without a prescription. → https://is.gd/UShNuR21:11
BrainstormUpdates for Germany: +10309 cases (now 2.5 million) since 23 hours ago — Spain: +637 deaths (now 71138) since a day ago21:43
BrainstormNew from FDA Press Releases: FDA: Coronavirus (COVID-19) Update: March 5, 2021 → https://is.gd/FzWHE421:53
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Health: ‘This isn’t done’: Experts warn that no matter what our Covid end goal is, we have a ways to go → https://is.gd/q0rd1c22:04
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: (news): Covid-19: Mystery UK person with Brazil variant found → https://is.gd/vcVL9022:14
BrainstormNew from StatNews: STAT+: Lawmakers rail against huge tax breaks drug wholesalers get from opioid settlement: “Cardinal’s planned deduction under the CARES Act is reprehensible given the company’s role in fueling the deadly opioid pandemic," three lawmakers wrote to its CEO. → https://is.gd/q5q7TQ22:24
BrainstormUpdates for France: +18161 cases (now 3.9 million), +339 deaths (now 88174) since 19 hours ago — United Kingdom: +3246 cases (now 4.2 million), +157 deaths (now 124182) since 19 hours ago22:33
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Most coronavirus deaths occurred in countries where majority of adults are overweight → https://is.gd/CdihM722:55
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: As Palestinians Clamor for Vaccine, Their Leaders Divert Doses to Favored Few → https://is.gd/DRP2tY23:05
pigassuLjL, do you know anything about supplement absorption with liquid forms vs say gels23:08
LjLpigassu: nothing whatsoever I'm afraid23:09
asdflkjLjL: I appreciate the use of Nitter instead of twitter.com. Would you consider similarly replacing old.reddit with Teddit[.net or other instance]?23:16
LjLasdflkj: tbh I only use nitter because it has RSS feeds while twitter doesn't... Other than that it's giving me issues, or well rather Twitter is ultimately, since they rate limit the API, but the result is tweets aren't always fetched23:17
LjLDoes Teddit have the same RSS api as Reddit?23:18
asdflkjhttps://codeberg.org/teddit/teddit/wiki#teddit-api23:20
asdflkjI think so23:21
asdflkjhttps://teddit.net/?api=&type=rss23:21
asdflkjhttps://teddit.net/r/worldnews?api=&type=rss23:22
LjLI'll give it a try. I use some moderately complex RSS queries including parameters like limit=23:22
asdflkjthanks!23:26
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pakistani student Aqsa Jamal won the Lexus Design Award in Milan, Italy for inventing a sewing machine for the visually-impaired. → https://is.gd/7COQmN23:57
oribawhen I look at thenumbers/graphs here (especially 2nd graph): https://offloop.net/covid19/?default=US;France;Spain;Germany;China23:57
oribaI wonder how in the media the "free way" is always said its the better way23:58
oribaadd USA in the graph, if you wish ...23:58

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