| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: With nearly 2000 deaths a day, Brazil’s COVID crisis is a warning to the whole world, scientists say → https://is.gd/GC8hWK | 00:26 |
|---|---|---|
| Brainstorm | Updates for Netherlands: +4518 cases (now 1.1 million), +30 deaths (now 15866) since 22 hours ago — Canada: +2287 cases (now 887420), +23 deaths (now 22229) since 22 hours ago — Germany: +6517 cases (now 2.5 million) since 21 hours ago — United Kingdom: +95 deaths (now 124552) since 20 hours ago | 00:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Lancet (Online): [Series] Mobilising evidence, data, and resources to achieve global maternal and child undernutrition targets and the Sustainable Development Goals: an agenda for action: As the world counts down to the 2025 World Health Assembly nutrition targets and the 2030 Sustainable Development Goals, millions of women, children, and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/fKzXjx | 00:36 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +22938 cases (now 3.9 million) since 23 hours ago | 01:23 |
| LjL | https://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/m00cbv/wall_street_journal_russian_disinformation/gq59ihb/?context=3 ... and I get downvoted for a reasonable worry that the FDA *agrees* is a reasonable worry, and just for saying, hey, i was worried about this without it being related to any Russians | 01:24 |
| LjL | i think really, at this point, as a mirror image to the anti-vaxxers, there is a "vaccine fanclub" to whom you can never speak critically of a vaccine in any way whatsoever | 01:25 |
| LjL | including the idea that if you do so, you undermine public confidence. but if you can only speak of scientific concerns privately, that undermines transparency. which, in the long term, undermines public confidence. so it seems a no brainer to me that, uh, you know, public transparent discourse should be allowed *and welcome* | 01:26 |
| LjL | one new comment: "It's pretty obvious you have no professional experience with this. Stop trying to read papers when you have no context in which to put those figures. And definitely stop spreading your ignorance online." | 01:27 |
| LjL | well, wow. | 01:27 |
| LjL | %title https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVPy25wQ07k | 01:44 |
| Brainstorm | LjL: From www.youtube.com: The Problem with the 'Yay Science!' Crowd - YouTube | 01:44 |
| LjL | "And yet you did a lot more than look and speak about it. Instead you were spreading concern about side effects and even criticizing the path being taken as not sufficient for protecting the public..." | 01:56 |
| LjL | EVEN! how dare i | 01:56 |
| LjL | i am currently feeling disgusted | 01:56 |
| LjL | /nick LjL-Disgusted | 01:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Russian Intelligence Linked to Spread of False Info About COVID-19 Vaccines → https://is.gd/sYz2sz | 03:00 |
| LjL | %tr <it Mentre la variazione della strategia di testing , che sta facendo emergere un numero considerevole di casi tra i più giovani, dimostra quanto abbiamo scritto più volte: i casi nelle scuole non venivano individuati soprattutto perché non si cercavano. Adesso si cercano, e si trovano. | 03:32 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, Italian to English: While the variation of the testing strategy, which is bringing out a considerable number of cases among the youngest, demonstrates what we have written several times: cases in schools were not identified mainly because they were not searched. Now they seek, and they are found. (MyMemory) [... want %more?] | 03:32 |
| pugusas | https://twitter.com/FacesOfCOVID/status/1368753970919915520 | 03:51 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +16742 cases (now 3.9 million), +108 deaths (now 88586) since 19 hours ago — United Kingdom: +4120 cases (now 4.2 million), +81 deaths (now 124578) since 19 hours ago — Netherlands: +3603 cases (now 1.1 million), +25 deaths (now 15882) since 19 hours ago — Canada: +1790 cases (now 888024) since 19 hours ago | 04:11 |
| de-facto | "Dr. Kathlynne Abat-Senen, a neonatologist and infectious disease expert, has died of COVID-19 after a second bout with the virus." | 04:14 |
| de-facto | pugusas, shouldn't it be the other way around, second encounter much milder? | 04:15 |
| LjL | the re-infections that were observed were often more severe than the initial infections | 04:20 |
| LjL | but there is obvious possibility of bias in that observation of mild (or asymptomatic) infection may just not happen | 04:20 |
| de-facto | which leaves me curious if those (hopefully) are anecdotal cases of severe/fatal progression on reinfections or if there is some broader mechanism involved such as ADE et al | 04:22 |
| LjL | de-facto, but if ADE occurred wouldn't we be seeing it, disastrously, with vaccines? | 04:22 |
| de-facto | definitely something that needs to be understood in more detail as more and more people will be re-challenged with an evolved pathogen upon waning off immunity | 04:22 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: China exports spike to highest in decades after COVID-19 hit → https://is.gd/PAZtEK | 04:23 |
| de-facto | LjL, i just hope its some anecdotal cases and not the first signs of a broader problem such as waning immunity combined with evasive mutants or such | 04:26 |
| LjL | i think we've probably already had more than first sign but we've mostly ignored them | 04:27 |
| LjL | there's been a lot of dogma this whole past year on what was "possible". re-infection was not "possible", not plausible. oh except in very rare cases. because we happened to observe only very rare cases. | 04:28 |
| de-facto | what also comes to mind is that it was said the hospitals in Manaus filled again them running out of oxygen, so IF those were reinfections then they were not exactly mild progressions (but maybe they were not reinfections?) | 04:29 |
| de-facto | well i have no idea about the true prevalence of reinfections, but i assume since health services probably get reported the full names (for tracing etc) they should notice if a big portion of people tests positive several times with more than one recovery time delay | 04:31 |
| pugusas | de-facto: you guys are most expert than I , the Brazil variant though | 04:31 |
| de-facto | was it the Brazil variant that killed her? | 04:32 |
| de-facto | that Philippine doc there i meant | 04:32 |
| pugusas | seemed to wipe out Manaus or so, which had already had widespread cases in the early Covid pandemic , as I heard | 04:32 |
| de-facto | yeah but its still discussed | 04:33 |
| pugusas | no idea, just saying that who knows where the Brazil variant is now | 04:33 |
| de-facto | like they discuss 4 possible explanations | 04:33 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00183-5/fulltext | 04:33 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Resurgence of COVID-19 in Manaus, Brazil, despite high seroprevalence - The Lancet | 04:33 |
| pugusas | and/or its an example of previous exposure, not providing protection | 04:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Brent jumps past $70 for first time since pandemic began after Saudi facilities attacked → https://is.gd/jeQ10K | 04:34 |
| de-facto | 1) possibly the estimations for infections in their first wave were wrong 2) immunity wanes off 3) immune evasion by their new mutants 4) mutants are more contagious hence cause more cases in the same time | 04:35 |
| de-facto | probably a combo of all of those | 04:35 |
| de-facto | maybe its also some rare preset of conditions that have to come together for allowing more severe progressions on reinfections | 04:37 |
| de-facto | for example i wonder about: if vaccination causes near 100% seroconversion (building up of antibodies) how come that not 100% protection is achieved? | 04:38 |
| de-facto | maybe for some people the immunization (either by recovery or by vaccination) just did not work so well? | 04:39 |
| de-facto | like for a small part | 04:39 |
| LjL | de-facto, then there were those couple of reports we saw recently linked from twitter where it seemed that during screening before trials, it turned out that people who were already seroconverted were *equally as likely* to get COVID than those who weren't | 04:40 |
| de-facto | huh? that would really be quite weird | 04:40 |
| de-facto | the problem with all of these is that we need a representative large number N of people to make some proper claims, otherwise it will always be handwaving on potentially anecdotal cases | 04:41 |
| de-facto | i mean vaccination definitely (thankfully) works for the majority of people | 04:42 |
| de-facto | maybe that effect of reinfections becoming nasty only happens on immunity that is almost waned off or such? | 04:43 |
| de-facto | its all much too speculative for my taste, hence it would be quite important to have some more details and data about such cases | 04:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express: World: US says Russian-backed outlets spread COVID-19 vaccine ‘disinformation’ → https://is.gd/fdyFsT | 04:44 |
| de-facto | maybe it also has something to do with longcovid? | 04:46 |
| de-facto | like if there is a constant exhaustion of immune resources (cells antibodies etc) over extended periods of time maybe the immune system is not fit (recovered) enough to fight off a challenge with a partly evasive mutant? | 04:47 |
| de-facto | idk i am no immunologic expert, its very complex | 04:48 |
| LjL | de-facto, it might be really weird and the scientist that was discussing it on twitter found it weird too and said it wasn't consistent with other findings, but he was pretty puzzled, he wasn't dismissing it | 04:50 |
| LjL | and then someone who responded to his tweets pointed out that another study had a very similar thing | 04:50 |
| LjL | i don't know if i can find them again easily now | 04:50 |
| LjL | but it was tweets from Brainstorm, you know it mostly relays tweets from sources that are solid | 04:51 |
| LjL | (you basically told me which people to add) | 04:51 |
| de-facto | yeah from yuri | 04:52 |
| LjL | de-facto, the one of them was this https://nitter.dark.fail/profshanecrotty/status/1355552010158764036#m | 04:55 |
| LjL | specifically about the SA variant, which might make sense because it's very escapey | 04:56 |
| LjL | but read on | 04:56 |
| LjL | the @kakape retweet | 04:56 |
| LjL | and then let's see if i find the reply with the other day | 04:56 |
| LjL | other data* | 04:56 |
| LjL | de-facto, yeah, the other one is this one https://nitter.dark.fail/JustForReading9/status/1355565041613996035#m | 04:57 |
| LjL | "The placebo group attack rate from enrollment to the November 14, 2020, data cut-off date was 1.3% both for participants without evidence of prior infection and for participants with evidence of prior infection at enrollment" | 04:58 |
| de-facto | indeed that does not look like the best news | 04:59 |
| de-facto | at leat on first sight | 04:59 |
| de-facto | but still vaccinations definitely protect as proven by the trials | 05:00 |
| de-facto | Novavax "Preliminary case rate in placebo was not impacted by baseline anti-spike serostatus" | 05:02 |
| LjL | so, seems like a constant | 05:02 |
| LjL | how do we explain this | 05:02 |
| de-facto | i remember faintly to have read something about SARS-CoV-2 attacking germs centers in lymph nodes or such | 05:04 |
| de-facto | that was almost a year ago or such | 05:04 |
| de-facto | so maybe the virus attacks some long living memory cells? | 05:04 |
| de-facto | idk pure speculation | 05:04 |
| LjL | i remember something like that too, no idea if it could be related | 05:05 |
| LjL | but if vaccines work... why do they work? | 05:05 |
| LjL | they definitely also work, mainly, by creating "immune attention" towards the spike protein | 05:05 |
| de-facto | i dont even know the terms for finding it again with google | 05:05 |
| LjL | i'm really tired, it feels like this is all way beyond my understanding, and when some things do seem like at reach for me, i'm called ignorant and told to shut up on reddit | 05:06 |
| LjL | and i can't go out, and there's no imaginable end to lockdowns, and even then, i'd still be in a situation i've hated for years | 05:06 |
| LjL | i wish COVID came in a form that kills you in one day | 05:06 |
| de-facto | come on dont give too much attention to reddit (i dont like it at all to be honest) | 05:07 |
| de-facto | the worse times we had this winter, i dont expect it to continue like this | 05:07 |
| LjL | it's hardly just reddit | 05:07 |
| LjL | the bad times are *starting* now for italy | 05:08 |
| LjL | we're spiking, and talking about a country-wide lockdown | 05:08 |
| de-facto | it will get better this summer, slowly but steadily we will wrestle it down and solve all the problems associated with it | 05:08 |
| LjL | you mean... like last summer? (not) | 05:08 |
| de-facto | then we might realize we just made a technological leap forwards | 05:08 |
| LjL | i won't be vaccinated by the summer, i know this much | 05:08 |
| de-facto | well last summer we barely did nothing against it in terms of vaccinations etc | 05:09 |
| LjL | we'll barely do anything this summer as well | 05:09 |
| LjL | if by an incredibly strike of luck i get vaccinated, it will be AZ, which will barely make me feel any safer | 05:09 |
| de-facto | im sure we will since now it depends on scaling since we have vaccines that are effective so its more like a scaling production and logistics problem | 05:10 |
| LjL | you say that like that's the trivial part | 05:12 |
| de-facto | what i mean is that now we know what exactly to do, last year we did not know if we will have something that works at all | 05:13 |
| de-facto | how much effort we put into reaching that goal is another question, but for sure the rate of production for vaccines will increase massively | 05:14 |
| de-facto | (and yes i am impatient, yet i understand i have to wait for it to be offered to me too) | 05:14 |
| de-facto | and for those vaccine trial data suggesting that recovery from a previous infection did not protect from becoming symptomatic again: well how do we know if thats it, like mild symptoms and only anecdotal severe progressions (probably at lower attack rate than in immunologic naive people)? | 05:17 |
| LjL | i don't know, at some point i have to trust that the study that states this used the same metrics for seroconverted people and not | 05:18 |
| de-facto | for example: with the "common cold" CoVs we also get symptoms each year with the reinfections, but they stay more or less harmless. now since we all have antibodies against those (e.g. recovery during our childhood), how would we know if those common cold CoVs would not be quite severe if encountered first time as adult without any previous immunization as child or such? | 05:19 |
| LjL | they probably would, that's the whole thesis about COVID becoming endemic but not being a problem "for future generation" (but staying a problem for us) | 05:20 |
| de-facto | LjL, what i meant is their trial data looked at symptomatic but did not say anything about correlation between prior seroconversion and probability for severe progressions | 05:20 |
| LjL | granted. but still, *same attack rate*, that's something... in three different studies... unexpected | 05:20 |
| de-facto | well sterilizing immunity is something that would require quite high level of antibodies etc, maybe something not easily achieved with natural recovery especially when its waning off | 05:21 |
| de-facto | i mean those antibody tests are quite sensitive... | 05:22 |
| de-facto | just trying to say that there is a range for those symptomatic reinfections, from mildly to moderately to severe to fatal progressions | 05:23 |
| de-facto | and i would assume that prior seroconversion not too long time ago should strongly shift probability into the more mild range compared with immunologic naive infections | 05:24 |
| de-facto | vaccination even more so, probably even into the range of sterilizing immunity for some time | 05:25 |
| LjL | i guess | 05:26 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add Novavax flashy announcement of their successful trials ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/f39e33abf723cb10b43e2c34f0f41cd71a47884e ) | 05:43 | |
| Brainstorm | New from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add Novavax flashy announcement of their successful trials → https://is.gd/uWSU8J | 05:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 49-Year-Old Woman Dies After Receiving AstraZeneca COVID-19 Vaccine, Austria Officials Investigate → https://is.gd/fuUB10 | 06:41 |
| Brainstorm | New preprint: Rapid increase of SARS-CoV-2 variant B.1.1.7 detected in sewage samples from England between October 2020 and January 2021 by Thomas Wilton et al, made available as preprint on 2021-03-07 at https://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2021.03.03.21252867 [... want %more?] | 06:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Germany should have led the world at handling the pandemic. But experts slam Merkel's vaccine response as a disaster → https://is.gd/yjDK5F | 07:23 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Parana, Brazil: +45020 cases (now 725797), +247 deaths (now 12591) since 23 hours ago — Montana, United States: +5782 cases (now 106438), +2 deaths (now 1381) since 2 days ago — France: +22200 cases (now 3.9 million), +140 deaths (now 88618) since 23 hours ago — Lombardy, Italy: +4367 cases (now 633977), +33 deaths (now 28738) since 23 hours ago | 08:27 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: Von der Leyen says EU’s vaccine doses to ‘double’ to 100M per month in April → https://is.gd/pYPdL2 | 08:34 |
| Brainstorm | New from Science-Based Medicine: Antivaxxers misrepresent a study to falsely claim that COVID-19 vaccines cause cancer: The latest antivaccine propaganda claims that a 2018 research paper published by researchers at Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center shows that the RNA in the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines can cause cancer. As usual, it's a [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/6BOffK | 09:06 |
| Arsanerit | 100M per month is not enough | 09:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Bolsonaro's policies are causing Brazil to become a 'factory' for superpotent Covid-19 variants, says scientists → https://is.gd/r2IKff | 09:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from Emma Hodcroft: @firefoxx66: A fantastic piece with @jbloom_lab @sarahcobey @10queues @mccarthy_kr & more on some of the critical work going on to help understand the impact of the mutations we see in #SARSCoV2.https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/03/07/scientists-underestimated-coronavirus-are-racing-keep-up-with-evolution/ → https://is.gd/2AsmO7 | 09:47 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Draghi al Quirinale per la Giornata internazionale della Donna ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/draghi-al-quirinale-la-giornata-internazionale-della-donna/16361 ) | 10:03 | |
| Brainstorm | New from BBC Health: What's the roadmap for lifting lockdown?: The prime minister has announced a plan for how the lockdown will be lifted in England. → https://is.gd/KDgKoi | 10:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: England's children go back to school after virus lockdown: Children return to school in England on Monday for the first time since January, as the government begins to ease tough restrictions thanks to a mass vaccination drive against the coronavirus. → https://is.gd/iNYoV1 | 10:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from The Indian Express (Health): Life-style: Zimbabwe’s women battle gender discrimination amid pandemic → https://is.gd/8910fc | 10:49 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: A pandemic expert weighs in on the long road ahead for Covid-19 vaccine distribution: STAT caught up with the CEO of the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations, who is planning for the current pandemic — and pandemics in the future. → https://is.gd/ciXtJR | 10:59 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Veterinary medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Purevax RCP, vaccine against feline viral rhinotracheitis, feline calicivirosis and feline panleucopenia, Date of authorisation: 23/02/2005, Revision: 16, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/rZOw7i | 11:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): Global COVID Cases For 08MAR21: Summary As Of: 08MAR @ 09:58 GMT Countries 219 + 2 Cases 117,494,550 Deaths 2,604,641 Recovered 92,879,952 Active Cases 21,882,570 Countries reporting new cases in this update: 63 Countries reporting new deaths in this update: 36 With Active cases w/No Active cases w/All cases rcvrd Cntry’s 212 [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/zWwjx1 | 11:20 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): CoronaVirus_ITALIA: Vaccino Covid, Vaia: "Così produrremo Sputnik in Italia" → https://is.gd/VfzA3e | 11:31 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Veterinary medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Purevax RCPCh FeLV, vaccine against feline viral rhinotracheitis, feline calicivirosis, feline panleucopenia, feline leukeamia and feline Chlamydophila infections, Date of authorisation: 23/02/2005, Revision: 14, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/VArGhL | 11:41 |
| Brainstorm | New from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): Gardasil 9, human papillomavirus 9-valent vaccine (recombinant, adsorbed), Condylomata Acuminata,Papillomavirus Infections,Immunization,Uterine Cervical Dysplasia, Date of authorisation: 09/06/2015, Revision: 15, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/dpoHzO | 12:01 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid-19: Two in critical condition and two more deaths within days of Sinovac jab - Health Dep't to investigate if vaccine link | Hong Kong Free Press HKFP → https://is.gd/Uz6bzG | 12:12 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: 8 marzo, web conference “Verso una strategia nazionale per la parità di genere” ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/8-marzo-web-conference-verso-una-strategia-nazionale-la-parit-di-genere/16363 ) | 12:18 | |
| Brainstorm | New from The Atlantic: Pandemic Fog Is Real: I first became aware that I was losing my mind in late December. It was a Friday night, the start of my 40-somethingth pandemic weekend: Hours and hours with no work to distract me, and outside temperatures prohibitive of anything other than staying in. I couldn’t for the life of me figure out how to fill [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/JNL3Uw | 12:53 |
| Brainstorm | New from Reddit (test): China_Flu: Diplomats Warned of a Coronavirus Danger in Wuhan—2 Years Before the Outbreak | After seeing a risky lab, they wrote a cable warning Washington. But it was ignored. → https://is.gd/Pu4le3 | 13:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Biden rides a ‘Keep It Simple, Stupid’ strategy to early success: The US president’s COVID-relief bill passed the Senate on Saturday. It was a remarkably drama-free milestone for a $1.9 trillion bill. → https://is.gd/Dz1BMz | 13:57 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Vaccine-skeptical Trump country poses challenge to immunization push: The expansion in vaccine supply marks a critical time to confront deep skepticism among large numbers of rural whites and Republicans. → https://is.gd/sBMcGP | 14:07 |
| CoronaBot | /r/coronavirus: New Zealand purchases enough Pfizer vaccine for the entire population (10159 votes) | https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/437907/covid-19-vaccine-government-has-purchased-enough-for-every-new-zealander | https://redd.it/m06uqr | 14:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from Derek Lowe: @angie_rasmussen: RT by @Dereklowe: Farewell to @COVID19Tracking. Thanks to all these hardworking volunteers for providing an invaluable service. I’m glad there’s no longer a need, but still...endless gratitude. → https://is.gd/3W5dpS | 15:00 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Switzerland: +2744 cases (now 565034) since 14 hours ago | 15:06 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: How to reach the 1 in 3 New Zealanders who remain hesitant or skeptical about COVID-19 vaccines: As Aotearoa New Zealand begins the third week of COVID-19 vaccinations, the focus turns from the 12,000-strong border workforce to their families and household contacts. → https://is.gd/XWWtas | 15:11 |
| Brainstorm | New from WHO Euro: Emergency Medical Teams: knowledge exchange and hands-on support strengthen COVID-19 response in Armenia: Doctors, nurses and paramedics from Germany, Italy, Poland and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland have been arriving in Armenia since the summer of 2020 to join hands with their peers and curb the spread of [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/SY0yR0 | 15:32 |
| Brainstorm | New from NPR: Syria's Bashar Assad And His Wife Test Positive For Coronavirus: The couple received PCR tests after experiencing minor symptoms consistent with the virus, according to an official statement. Both are in "good health and in a stable condition," it said. → https://is.gd/g1TdC6 | 15:42 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Benin: +267 cases (now 6338), +6 deaths (now 81) since 4 days ago | 15:44 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Draghi alla Conferenza ‘Verso una Strategia Nazionale sulla parità di genere’ ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/alla-conferenza-verso-una-strategia-nazionale-sulla-parit-di-genere/16365 ) | 16:03 | |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: Pharma: STAT+: Pharmalittle: Merck says early data shows pill is effective against Covid-19; WHO’s COVAX program ships first doses → https://is.gd/tvTMHd | 16:04 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Austria suspends AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine batch after death → https://is.gd/Nzd6Vd | 16:14 |
| Brainstorm | New from WHO Euro: Over 4 tonnes of medical supplies arrive in Kyrgyzstan to equip COVID-19 response: With financial support from the United Kingdom and the United Nations COVID-19 Response and Recovery Multi-Partner Trust Fund, WHO delivered over 4 tonnes of medical supplies to Kyrgyzstan to support the Government’s COVID-19 response. The delivery [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/AlKavo | 16:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Guidance for vaccinated Americans is on the way: Much needed guidance on how vaccinated Americans should navigate social distancing restrictions is expected from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention this week. → https://is.gd/fgyDGy | 16:46 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Perioperative Cognitive Trajectories in Deferred Surgery (CoTELE-SURGE) → https://is.gd/PteY5P | 17:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Supporting Parents & Kids Through Lockdown Experiences (SPARKLE). → https://is.gd/Br1JAs | 17:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): 2019 NSECE COVID-19 Follow-up → https://is.gd/Yg0m76 | 17:51 |
| LjL | Funny, I was just thinking earlier "does the not never actually post anything from clinicaltrials.gov?" and there it goes with spamming them | 18:06 |
| LjL | %tell ryouma looks like an "alternative" data collection entity for the US similar to what you were seeking a while ago exist...ed, as it is just ceasing operations today https://nitter.dark.fail/COVID19Tracking | 18:10 |
| Brainstorm | LjL, I'll pass ryouma your message when they are around. | 18:10 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/Coronavirus: Coronavirus: FAQ: COVID-19 and Ivermectin Intended for Animals → https://is.gd/4yj4bn | 18:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for United Kingdom: +3169 cases (now 4.2 million) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +119 deaths (now 72351) since 23 hours ago — Canada: +10 deaths (now 22239) since 18 hours ago | 18:38 |
| Brainstorm | New from Ars Technica: Science: CDC releases guidance for fully vaccinated—you can probably hug grandma again → https://is.gd/R04oEA | 18:44 |
| Brainstorm | New from BMJ: Covid-19: Female doctors felt compelled to step up during the pandemic, says BMA: Female doctors have taken on extra—often unpaid—work during the pandemic, to the detriment of their own wellbeing and mental health, BMA research has found.The association has been regularly... → https://is.gd/BzBRKq | 19:05 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for France: +239 deaths (now 88821) since 21 hours ago | 19:09 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Expert answers questions about new COVID-19 vaccine: The Food and Drug Administration has granted emergency use authorization for a new COVID-19 vaccine developed by Janssen Pharmaceuticals Inc., a subsidiary of Johnson & Johnson. The announcement means the U.S. now has three vaccines that effectively prevent severe COVID-19. → https://is.gd/7Ofnsj | 19:16 |
| Brainstorm | New from Medical Xpress: Study of coronavirus variants predicts virus evolving to escape current vaccines: A new study of the U.K. and South Africa variants of SARS-CoV-2 predicts that current vaccines and certain monoclonal antibodies may be less effective at neutralizing these variants and that the new variants raise the specter that reinfections [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/fmxqqv | 19:47 |
| -RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Incontro con la ‘Commissione parlamentare di inchiesta sul femminicidio e la violenza di genere’ ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/incontro-con-la-commissione-parlamentare-di-inchiesta-sul-femminicidio-e-la-violenza-di ) | 19:48 | |
| CoronaBot | /r/covid19: Comparison of IgG and neutralizing antibody responses after one or two doses of COVID-19 mRNA vaccine in previously infected and uninfected persons (83 votes) | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.04.21252913v1 | https://redd.it/m0fmnc | 19:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: EU could block more vaccine exports, von der Leyen warns → https://is.gd/GTVslI | 20:08 |
| LjL | Italy has approved AstraZeneca for people 65+, I just heard | 20:10 |
| LjL | also it seems like the EU and the US are in talks to export massive doses of AstraZeneca from the US to the EU (whereas de-facto knows that so far the US has barely exported any vaccines) | 20:12 |
| LjL | but at the same time it seems to underline AZ as a second-class vaccine, that the US hasn't even approved (has it? usually the FDA is quicker than the EMA) but that it will produce for the less fortunate EU | 20:13 |
| LjL | "It was bad enough when a study released last week concluded that AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine was largely ineffective against the aggressive B.1.351 variant that recently emerged in South Africa. Now, analysts are wondering whether inconsistent manufacturing of the vaccine for the clinical trials may have muddied the results—concerns that could give the FDA pause when considering the vaccine for emergency use." https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/fd | 20:13 |
| LjL | a-could-reject-astra-zeneca-s-covid-vaccine-efficacy-and-manufacturing-shortfalls-analyst | 20:13 |
| pwr22 | LjL: is the US even particularly invested in AZ in the first place? | 20:18 |
| pwr22 | I thought they were more into the Pfizer thing? | 20:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: Coronavirus: German MPs quit ruling conservatives over face mask scandals → https://is.gd/NZ88wz | 20:18 |
| LjL | pwr22, who wouldn't? they are also more into the Moderna thing, which the EU is barely at all | 20:18 |
| pwr22 | Today UK has started opening schools 100% | 20:18 |
| LjL | pwr22, but AZ did have a trial in the US too | 20:18 |
| pwr22 | I mean like did the US pre-order much in the way of AZ? | 20:18 |
| pwr22 | I didn't think it had | 20:18 |
| LjL | https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/fda-could-reject-astra-zeneca-s-covid-vaccine-efficacy-and-manufacturing-shortfalls-analyst isn't entirely uninteresting, even aside from the part i quoted | 20:18 |
| LjL | pwr22, i don't know, but the ostensible reasons the FDA isn't approving it are others | 20:19 |
| pwr22 | Yeah but it's not gonna be a high priority for them to look into I mean, if they have enough supply of other vaccines that they know for sure work | 20:19 |
| pwr22 | I mean why waste time testing and ordering a vaccine that might end up not working? | 20:20 |
| pwr22 | I wouldn't do that 😀 | 20:20 |
| pwr22 | Except maybe as a contingency | 20:20 |
| LjL | pwr22, well it sounds like you are describing what could be termed a second class vaccine to me :P | 20:23 |
| LjL | if it's the only thing you have, approve it, and use it | 20:23 |
| LjL | (even though "have" is generous, they also just said that overall, AZ has delivered LESS THAN 10% of the promised doses) | 20:23 |
| LjL | if you have better ones, use those | 20:24 |
| pwr22 | LjL: Eh, I don't think I am. That just seems like bias 😀. I mean actually describing logical reasons why the US not jumping into AZ much doesn't necessarily mean it's confirmed useless which is kind of the opposite? | 20:26 |
| pwr22 | I feel like Boris has stolen all the doses 😀 | 20:26 |
| LjL | sure, it's bias. it's funny though that my bias partly matches the stated reasons why the FDA is wary of approving it | 20:27 |
| LjL | i don't know if it's Boris's fault but the EU contract definitely said that the UK facilities should also have exported it to the EU | 20:27 |
| LjL | but the EU apparently cannot write contracts that are enforceable | 20:27 |
| LjL | i'm afraid as mad as i might be that the EU isn't getting vaccinated, writing a better contract doesn't count as stealing yet | 20:28 |
| de-facto | we need more production capacity *inside* EU | 20:28 |
| de-facto | thats what should be brought forward with *wartime* priority | 20:28 |
| LjL | well the UK was still practically inside the EU when the contract was written, and somehow, the EU didn't seem to think that the fact it was about to *leave* the EU would matter | 20:28 |
| LjL | which was... short-sighted, to put it very mildly? | 20:29 |
| de-facto | every vaccine production capacity worldwide is utterly important, but having domestic production capacity gives the most control over vaccine production and quality control etc | 20:30 |
| LjL | yes, look at the end of that article about the FDA vs AZ | 20:30 |
| LjL | > “We believe that it is possible that the overwhelming U.S. supply discrepancy with demand could weigh in on the decision to grant a U.S. AstraZeneca vaccine approval, given that data thus far implies efficacy that is above FDA COVID-19 vaccine guidelines,” the analysts wrote. | 20:30 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Spain: +298 deaths (now 71436) since 2 days ago | 20:30 |
| de-facto | AZ will update their vaccine too, so we also need more production cap for it inside EU under our control | 20:31 |
| LjL | what this person says is actually that despite the US vaccinating a lot compared to the EU, they still are extremely hungry for vaccines, and that's what might lead them to approve AZ *despite* having doubts about it. plus, they can brush it off as "the one we produce domestically will be better controlled" | 20:31 |
| de-facto | well approval should be about both safety and efficacy but the more important actually is safety because its going to be given to everyone and its pretty clear by now that we will need some sort of update shots anyhow | 20:33 |
| de-facto | hence i think we should 1) give highest priority to increasing vaccine production capacity 2) still control every produced charge for its safety and quality under domestic production 3) do everything to ramp up vaccination rates to the highest possible speeds 4) meanwhile bring down incidence via proven to be effective NPIs 5) finally work on improving biosecurity concepts to have more smart concepts than "close everything because we | 20:35 |
| de-facto | still dont know better" | 20:35 |
| de-facto | but thats only my opinion it seems | 20:35 |
| Brainstorm | New from Gazzetta Ufficiale italiana: MINISTERO DELLA GIUSTIZIA - COMUNICATO: Mancata conversione del decreto-legge 5 gennaio 2021, n. 1 (Raccolta2021), recante: «Ulteriori disposizioni urgenti in materia dicontenimento e gestione dell'emergenza epidemiologica da COVID-19.».(21A01364) → https://is.gd/pqNgb9 | 20:39 |
| pwr22 | <LjL "well the UK was still practicall"> To be honest perhaps that was why Boris steam rolled brexit through | 20:41 |
| pwr22 | No obligations to the EU? | 20:41 |
| LjL | pwr22, i don't know, i wasn't expecting a "not in the EU but practically in the EU anyway" type agreement to *continue* after... four years? | 20:42 |
| de-facto | Boris will blame everything brexit on the pandemic and account everything achieved on pandemic to brexit | 20:42 |
| LjL | i was expecting a situation roughly like the one we have, with the UK actually out of the EU | 20:42 |
| de-facto | thats how he will protect himself from any critics on brexit | 20:43 |
| LjL | well the fact they have so many more vaccines than the EU *is* effectively a result of Brexit for the most part. you can say it came out of luck in part, but the fact remains, it wouldn't be happening this way without Brexit. | 20:43 |
| de-facto | no thats wrong | 20:43 |
| LjL | i can assure you the handling of vaccinations will not improve confidence in the EU in the EU | 20:44 |
| de-facto | every country before could have invoked exactly the same articles as UK did as it still was inside EU | 20:44 |
| LjL | people who didn't want their country to "exit" will now start wanting it | 20:44 |
| LjL | de-facto, what articles? the EU had basically decided they would have an EU-wide plan for vaccines, and criticize *harshly* countries that didn't stick to it, like Hungary | 20:45 |
| LjL | they couldn't criticize the UK, since the UK weren't in the EU plan for obvious reasons | 20:45 |
| de-facto | well yeah yet still it was possible for Hungary to go their own way, as was it for UK, so it did not had anything to do with Brexit other than that they did not care about EU anymore | 20:46 |
| LjL | if the contract the EU has with AZ and/or Pfizer etc is written incompetently, the EU is going to be held up to it | 20:46 |
| de-facto | the EU put emphasis on safety and liability and such minor things in their contracts | 20:46 |
| de-facto | while other countries like Israel (and probably even UK, idk) did not hold the manufacturers liable for their vaccines | 20:47 |
| LjL | let me dig up again | 20:47 |
| LjL | "This core difference, according to a lawyer familiar with the development of the U.K. text, can be chalked up to the fact that the contract sealed with London was written by people with significant experience of purchasing agreements, specifically drug-buying deals. The European Commission’s contract, by contrast, shows a lack of commercial common sense, in the lawyer’s view." | 20:47 |
| LjL | which is from https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-differences-between-the-eu-and-uk-astrazeneca-contracts/ | 20:47 |
| de-facto | yeah thats a null statement imho, what exactly is he talking about? just claiming incompetence on others does not sound so competent to me tbh | 20:48 |
| LjL | i think "putting emphasis" on actually getting the vaccines is kind of important. | 20:49 |
| LjL | but that might be a null statement. | 20:49 |
| LjL | whatever, go on without me | 20:49 |
| LjL | i need to take a break | 20:49 |
| de-facto | sure but then such points should be directly mentioned and not just generic "incompetence" whatever that means (nothing to me tbh) | 20:49 |
| LjL | the article says other things | 20:49 |
| LjL | do you want me to quote the entire article? | 20:50 |
| LjL | that was the nutshell. | 20:50 |
| LjL | there is a *long* discussion of the various clauses that are problematic. sure the ideal would be to read both contracts and have a background in law, but with this standard no article about anything no matter how seemingly reliable is to ever be considered. | 20:51 |
| de-facto | im reading it, so basically they say that the UK contract is more precise in terms of exactly determining conditions and with punishment clauses or even canceling while in contrast the EU contract style is more on the best effort base (which probably is hart to prove that it was not be done with their best effort, hence an unprecise clause) | 20:54 |
| de-facto | if i understood it correctly from quickly reading through | 20:54 |
| pwr22 | LjL: I mean during the pandemic. I thought it was absolutely insane to waste time on brexit politics in a global pandemic. That shit could wait imo. | 20:54 |
| de-facto | https://www.politico.eu/article/coronavirus-vaccine-europe-commission-contract-astrazeneca-ties-hands-lawsuits/ | 20:55 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Canada: +1428 cases (now 888848), +11 deaths (now 22240) since 20 hours ago | 20:55 |
| de-facto | https://www.rai.it/dl/doc/2021/02/19/1613725900577_AZ_FIRMATO_REPORT.pdf | 20:55 |
| LjL | <Brainstorm> New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pfizer, Moderna vaccines less effective against key variant: lab study → https://is.gd/fRumd2 | 20:57 |
| de-facto | btw thats one reason i think its important to have domestic manufacturers such as BioNTech and CureVac, because id assume their priority aligns with those of their origin, e.g. EU | 20:58 |
| LjL | pwr22, yeah it was a bit surreal but then there was a deadline and stubborn heads | 20:58 |
| de-facto | as it happens in the case of AstraZeneca with the UK | 20:58 |
| Brainstorm | New from ScienceNews: People fully vaccinated against COVID-19 can socialize without masks, CDC says: Two weeks after their final COVID-19 shot, people can visit other vaccinated people indoors without masks or physical distancing. → https://is.gd/4dxIQb | 20:59 |
| LjL | de-facto, how does "The EU contract also says the Commission can't sue if there are any unforeseen issues with the safety or efficacy of the vaccine" and all the other "can't sues" square with your "emphasis on safety and liability"? | 21:00 |
| de-facto | good question | 21:02 |
| de-facto | maybe the word unforseen is important in that context | 21:03 |
| LjL | anyway, the thing about Pfizer and Moderna vs the SA variant: "The percentage of protective antibodies that neutralized the variant — called B.1.351, which has been recorded in 20 US states — was 12.4 times lower for Moderna's COVID-19 shot than against the original coronavirus, and 10.3 times lower for Pfizer's, the study authors said. This was a bigger drop than in previous lab studies testing the vaccines against manufactured forms of the varia | 21:03 |
| LjL | nt, they said." | 21:03 |
| LjL | your prediction may turn out correct that these vaccines also will show markedly decreased efficacy, despite no human studies yet, including this one | 21:03 |
| LjL | de-facto, well i dare hope if there are *foreseen* dangers they could be not just sued but held criminally liable | 21:04 |
| de-facto | e.g. they can be held liable to deliver the vaccine in a proper and safe quality controlled state but cant be held liable for unforseen safety issues that might have originated .e.g. from the speedup of approval process or such? (not sure thats speculative) | 21:04 |
| LjL | for once the article links to the study, although it's still a draft, on Nature, https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03398-2_reference.pdf | 21:05 |
| de-facto | yeah i think all the vaccines need updates | 21:06 |
| de-facto | sure some are more efficient some a bit less but all of them much less compared to themselves on D614G with B.1.351 | 21:07 |
| LjL | "Findings on B.1.351 are more worrisome in that this variant is not only refractory to neutralization by most NTD mAbs but also by multiple individual mAbs to the receptor-binding motif on RBD, largely owing to an E484K mutation. Moreover, B.1.351 is markedly more resistant to neutralization by convalescent plasma (9.4 fold) and vaccinee sera (10.3-12.4 fold)." (from the abstract) | 21:08 |
| Brainstorm | New from Politico: EU institutions to start vaccinating officials March 22: Commission, Parliament and Council have set up vaccination centers for officials and MEPs. → https://is.gd/low27H | 21:10 |
| LjL | ah of course, as long as *they* get vaccinated... meh | 21:11 |
| LjL | what's of "i'll get it when it's my turn" rhetoric | 21:11 |
| LjL | i'm pretty fed up | 21:11 |
| pwr22 | Yeah I imagine all the vaccines that were developed early on will be similarly hit because they all target the same early spike proteins | 21:14 |
| LjL | pwr22, i held hope for the mRNA ones because 1) i think they elicited a lot higher antibody tithers, and 2) that earlier referenced study said that their neutralization went down, but not *so* much, and it was probably still sufficient. according to this new study it goes *way* down. | 21:15 |
| LjL | so to me this is very bad news. to others it might just be expected news. sometimes i'm wrong, shockingly. | 21:16 |
| pwr22 | I see the logic about the anti-bodies but.... if the anti-bodies basically have zero binding affinity to the target anti-gen in the new variants, I don't think it matters how many of them you have | 21:16 |
| CoronaBot | /r/coronavirus: CDC: More people in US fully vaccinated than people who have had the disease since the pandemic began (10329 votes) | https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-03-08-21/h_b737b11bd67ac986214fbe97b6f79d15 | https://redd.it/m0hwlt | 21:16 |
| CoronaBot | /r/covid19: First dose mRNA vaccination is sufficient to reactivate immunological memory to SARS-CoV-2 in ex COVID-19 subjects (83 votes) | https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.05.21252590v1 | https://redd.it/m0kp5z | 21:16 |
| pwr22 | Heh, it's good for me because I am likely to only get AZ, plus my dad is only getting that | 21:17 |
| de-facto | ooff some of those mAbs seem to be almost effectless against B.1.351 (i think among them the ones Germany bought from Regeneron an Eli Lilly) | 21:18 |
| pwr22 | LjL: actually schools are all going back today thanks to grand lord boris | 21:18 |
| pwr22 | And my dad, despite being extremely vulnerable and not having had two jabs yet, has been told my brother and sister need to go back to school or it's a crime (like when you know, we're not in a pandemic) | 21:19 |
| pwr22 | My brother is supposed to go back on Wednesday and my sister would have today except her school is now closed one day 1 as as teacher tested positive | 21:19 |
| pwr22 | They are securing the schools with the coin-flip lateral flow tests that aren't diagnostically useful | 21:19 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Canada set to mourn COVID-19 victims, salute health workers on March 11 → https://is.gd/AXGv3F | 21:21 |
| LjL | pwr22: if the antibodies make no difference *at all* then I'd also wonder why/whether they are still "effective at preventing severe disease and death", as they all have carefully been touted... | 21:21 |
| de-facto | thats a very interesting paper LjL thanks for linking that | 21:22 |
| LjL | pwr22: in other places that reopen schools, they are at least made optional. That situation seems pretty unfortunate | 21:22 |
| LjL | Home schooling and remote schooling ought to at least be *possible* in any country where the government is not completely derwnged | 21:23 |
| de-facto | that SA variant really looks a LOT worse than the UK variant | 21:23 |
| de-facto | dangit | 21:23 |
| de-facto | often an order or magnitude | 21:24 |
| de-facto | i mean in terms of neutralization | 21:24 |
| de-facto | fortunately vaccines seem to be perfectly effective against B.1.1.7 (which currently will cause our problems) | 21:26 |
| pwr22 | de-facto: worse in what way? | 21:26 |
| de-facto | unfortunately it really looks like the mRNA ones also a lot less effective against B.1.351 as LjL said | 21:26 |
| pwr22 | Illness severity or you mean in terms of vaccine escape? | 21:27 |
| de-facto | an order of magnitude less neutralization capabilities for several of the mutations | 21:27 |
| de-facto | neutralization, its not human trials | 21:27 |
| de-facto | cell cultures in vitro | 21:27 |
| LjL | de-facto: but if the big culprit is E484K, now that's getting acquired by the UK and iirc by New York too... It doesn't stop at SA, there's convergent evolution on it :/ | 21:29 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: CDC study finds about 78% of people hospitalized for Covid were overweight or obese → https://is.gd/iy5nuf | 21:31 |
| de-facto | yeah or recombination, yet it does not matter, evasive mutants have a significant advantage in a partly immune population hence they will get selected | 21:31 |
| de-facto | yet its not only that one mutation, as the neutralization matrix shows the wild type B.1.351 is the worse by far (compared to single mutations only) | 21:32 |
| LjL | so what do we do? i don't think it's practically feasible to vaccinate everyone at the same time like you proposed. it may theoretically be the perfect solution, but how do you do it | 21:32 |
| LjL | i see | 21:32 |
| de-facto | so there probably are synergetic effects for those point mutations, one allowing the other to unfold its full potential | 21:33 |
| LjL | time for me to watch Montalbano and forget about this awfulness for an hour or so | 21:33 |
| de-facto | update the vaccines to mulativalent versions, what else should we do? restrict mobility of evasive mutants and minimize breeding on new ones by bringing down incidence by NPIs? | 21:34 |
| de-facto | ok enjoy :) | 21:34 |
| pwr22 | Plus build out more vaccine production infrastructure like you suggest | 21:38 |
| pwr22 | So we can kind of "chase down" covid, hopefully we can iterate vaccines fast enough to wear it down | 21:39 |
| de-facto | yes thats exactly what i thought | 21:41 |
| de-facto | delay time reduction for updates and production rates to reduce variant expiry of vaccine induced immunity prevalence | 21:42 |
| de-facto | basically we (all of us globally) and our technical skills to put SARS-CoV-2 into a tight corner (in terms of evolutionary trade-offs) VS. the virus and its flexibility to evade our efforts to surround it with effective neutralization immunity | 21:45 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid-19: 'Certain inevitability' that visitors to New Zealand will require proof of vaccine, Health Minister Chris Hipkins says → https://is.gd/evdyrN | 21:52 |
| Brainstorm | New from WebMD: COVID-19 Isolation and Your Baby’s Immune System: Experts say developing your baby's immune system is important, but doing so during a pandemic can be tricky. → https://is.gd/8OSpyW | 22:13 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Isle of Man: +108 cases (now 865) since a day ago | 22:30 |
| pwr22 | LjL: my brother said Friday was the first day he didn't process any positive covid tests | 22:33 |
| pwr22 | Which was fun whilst it lasted | 22:33 |
| Brainstorm | New from StatNews: STAT+: Drug makers urge Biden to reject proposal to waive patent rights on Covid-19 products: “Eliminating [intellectual property] protections would undermine the global response to the pandemic," the world's biggest drug makers argued. → https://is.gd/fPcKE9 | 22:34 |
| pwr22 | Loool, preventing more places from making the vaccines will undermine the vaccines.... | 22:38 |
| pwr22 | wut | 22:38 |
| de-facto | yeah the say they have to protect their investments, wtf its all tax money anyhow | 22:40 |
| de-facto | e.g. BNT162b2 development was funded by German taxpayers money in BioNTech | 22:41 |
| pwr22 | I was surprised to see that pretty much everyone but AZ are not selling at cost | 22:42 |
| pwr22 | There's such greed in this world | 22:42 |
| de-facto | yeah AZ seems to not make any profit from their shots (other than earning reputation and getting production cap etc) | 22:42 |
| de-facto | afaik prices in eu were like per dose 15€ for Moderna, 12€ for BioNTech and 1.8€ for AZ | 22:43 |
| de-facto | but thats not officially confirmed its from a leak so take that with a grain of salt | 22:43 |
| de-facto | prices are completely irrelevent imho compared to the impact of the pandemic on the economy | 22:44 |
| pwr22 | I think there was some pricing info on a BBC article the otherday | 22:44 |
| de-facto | if it was 1500€ per shot, so what it still would be saving a shitload of money if such shots worked | 22:45 |
| pwr22 | Yeah | 22:45 |
| de-facto | but of course thats always relative to a countries GDP per capita | 22:46 |
| de-facto | surely at some threshold costs per vaccine shot begin to matter (if its affordable by a country, hence the importance of initiatives such as COVAX) | 22:47 |
| calbasi_matrix | Any news about Cuban vaccine? | 22:55 |
| bin_bash | not afaik | 23:02 |
| de-facto | what type of vaccine is it? | 23:03 |
| calbasi_matrix | https://elpais.com/sociedad/2021-02-26/las-dos-vacunas-cubanas-contra-la-covid-19-entran-en-la-recta-final-de-los-ensayos-clinicos.html | 23:03 |
| calbasi_matrix | Here in English: | 23:04 |
| calbasi_matrix | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FINLAY-FR-2 | 23:04 |
| de-facto | https://www.clinicaltrialsarena.com/analysis/cuba-vaccine-covid-19/ | 23:04 |
| calbasi_matrix | It seems it will be starting 3th phase soon | 23:04 |
| de-facto | is it this one here? | 23:08 |
| de-facto | .title https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.08.430146v2 | 23:08 |
| Brainstorm | de-facto: From www.biorxiv.org: SARS-CoV-2 RBD-Tetanus toxoid conjugate vaccine induces a strong neutralizing immunity in preclinical studies | bioRxiv | 23:08 |
| de-facto | i heard cuban medical education is pretty good, so might be something they are onto there with such an approach | 23:10 |
| calbasi_matrix | Here you are info about all pre-clinical and clinical vaccines: | 23:14 |
| calbasi_matrix | https://www.who.int/publications/m/item/draft-landscape-of-covid-19-candidate-vaccines | 23:14 |
| calbasi_matrix | You can download a file with 2 tables with an updated info (March, 5th). Here: https://cdn.who.int/media/docs/default-source/blue-print/05.03.2021-novel-coronavirus_landscape_covid-19.xlsx.zip?sfvrsn=d2bfed24_3&download=true | 23:15 |
| calbasi_matrix | <de-facto "i heard cuban medical education "> Cuba has lots of medical staff. That's why they a key piece of AIDS fight in Africa, under WHO programs | 23:17 |
| calbasi_matrix | It seems, increidibily due USA "embargo", the scientistic and technological capabilities are good enough | 23:18 |
| Brainstorm | New from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Syrian President Assad tests positive for COVID-19 → https://is.gd/v085SQ | 23:26 |
| Brainstorm | Updates for Somaliland: +412 cases (now 1808), +16 deaths (now 66) since a month ago — Vanuatu: +2 cases (now 3) since 8 months ago | 23:26 |
| rpifan | well cuban drs are better then nothing | 23:36 |
| rpifan | but they arent very good | 23:36 |
| Arsanerit | Oops in Vanuatu. | 23:49 |
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