libera/##covid-19/ Thursday, 2021-03-11

BrainstormNew from ScienceNews: Health & Medicine: A year ago, we asked 6 questions about COVID-19. Here’s how the answers evolved → https://is.gd/tcCdQP00:08
LjLde-facto: well, we're doing it by producing Sputnik here... even if the EU thinks it is "irrelevant" because it's not approved by the EMA and we have made no declaration of intent to buy it... In the meanwhile, though, it will be produced here. And Spain is doing the same. Maybe the EU are being the children stomping their feet at this point. And I am no fan of Sputnik in particular, but good lord, we need *something* to be delivered for real00:15
de-factoafaik Sputnik also should be produced in Germany00:23
de-facto.title https://www.dw.com/en/idt-biologika-moves-into-spotlight-as-germany-eyes-sputnik-v-vaccine/a-5646470800:24
Brainstormde-facto: From www.dw.com: IDT Biologika moves into spotlight as Germany eyes Sputnik V vaccine | Business| Economy and finance news from a German perspective | DW | 05.02.202100:24
BrainstormNew from The Lancet (Online): [Correspondence] School reopening without robust COVID-19 mitigation risks accelerating the pandemic: On Feb 22, 2021, the UK Government announced that schools in England would fully reopen on March 8, 2021. While returning to school as soon as possible is imperative for the education, social development, and mental and [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/l1MwZK00:39
LjLNot part of the EU strategy, irrelevant, but the major EU countries are preparing to produce it00:53
LjLSounds like the EU might be in denial00:53
LjLI've also already started noticing a distinct change on tune on TV over Sputnik... before it was bad and dodgy and rushed, now it's a pretty swell vaccine00:54
de-facto.title https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-starts-rolling-review-sputnik-v-covid-19-vaccine00:55
Brainstormde-facto: From www.ema.europa.eu: EMA starts rolling review of the Sputnik V COVID-19 vaccine | European Medicines Agency00:55
deegono shit. yes, it was rushed and unproven earlier. now it's actually come out ok in tests.00:56
deegoapparently, the tv should have known the future. how dare they call a rushed, unproven thing rushed and unproven?00:56
LjLFuck off00:56
BrainstormNew from BMJ: The EMA covid-19 data leak, and what it tells us about mRNA instability: As it conducted its analysis of the Pfizer-BioNTech covid-19 vaccine in December, the European Medicines Agency (EMA) was the victim of a cyberattack.1 More than 40 megabytes of classified... → https://is.gd/ihKStY00:59
de-facto.title https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00234-8/fulltext00:59
Brainstormde-facto: From www.thelancet.com: Safety and efficacy of an rAd26 and rAd5 vector-based heterologous prime-boost COVID-19 vaccine: an interim analysis of a randomised controlled phase 3 trial in Russia - The Lancet00:59
de-factooh there LjL first article about EMA leak data?01:00
de-facto.title https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n62701:00
Brainstormde-facto: From www.bmj.com: The EMA covid-19 data leak, and what it tells us about mRNA instability | The BMJ01:00
LjLAh, interesting. The lower levels if mRNA in some batches was indeed something I uhm heard about01:01
LjLThe Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, the UK’s medicines regulator, acknowledged the lack of a specified percentage RNA integrity, but declined to provide further detail. “The specification limit acceptance criteria are commercially confidential,” the agency said in an email.01:04
LjLUlm told The BMJ: “Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna did a remarkable job of rapidly scaling up manufacturing of such a novel system in swift fashion, which is genuinely a landmark technological achievement. However, pharmacokinetic studies, with independent laboratory confirmation, are essential to ascertain potential cytotoxicity and macroscopic toxicity, especially given the likelihood of booster injections over months or years, since the tissue01:08
LjLtrafficking patterns of the mRNA vaccine payload will determine which cells and tissues are killed by cytotoxic T-cells in each round.”01:08
LjLIf the shot somehow ended up largely in tissues that don't regenerate I suppose that would be a problem01:09
de-facto"Pfizer stressed: “Each batch of vaccines is tested by the official medicinal control laboratory—the Paul Ehrlich Institute in Germany—before final product release. As a result, the quality of all vaccine doses that are placed on the market in Europe has been double tested to ensure compliance with the specifications agreed upon with the regulatory authorities.”"01:12
de-factovery interesting read01:16
LjLSpecifications that we, the recipients, are not allowed to know...01:16
LjLAs to Sputnik I have the doubt I had before: "The placebo consists of the vaccine buffer composition, but without the recombinant adenoviruses, made up to equal the vaccine volume." - is this really a placebo? Are all the other ingredients aside from the adenovirus known to be safe and non-active?01:17
de-factoimho they should have given the placebo arm another vaccine like they did in the AZ trials to ensure participants could not predict their vaccine status by side effects01:19
de-factoafaik the mRNA trials also did not do that01:20
de-factonot sure if any other manufacturer did use another vaccine for placebo branch01:20
LjLI have not heard of any except the one you have mentioned01:23
LjLBut another vaccine is another vaccine, ideally safe but different in almost every component01:23
BrainstormUpdates for Guinea: +296 cases (now 17208), +6 deaths (now 101) since a day ago — Canada: +2987 cases (now 896949), +33 deaths (now 22321) since 23 hours ago — Switzerland: +4 deaths (now 10082) since 9 hours ago01:24
LjLinstead, giving the components of *your* vaccine except the active one as placebo seems problematic to me01:24
CoronaBot/r/covid19: Moderna Announces First Participants Dosed in Study Evaluating COVID-19 Booster Vaccine Candidates (80 votes) | https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-announces-first-participants-dosed-study-evaluating/ | https://redd.it/m29utv01:30
BrainstormNew from NPR: Alabama Official On Vaccine Rollout: 'How Can This Disparity Exist In This Country?": Jefferson County Commissioner Sheila Tyson is fighting for equitable access to COVID-19 vaccines. In her county, one health clinic in a predominantly Black neighborhood has yet to receive any doses. → https://is.gd/NOWhZz01:40
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +5893 cases (now 4.2 million), +211 deaths (now 125010) since 22 hours ago — Netherlands: +4580 cases (now 1.1 million), +48 deaths (now 15989) since 23 hours ago01:42
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: 3,000 nurses dead, COVID-19 exodus looming: Global federation → https://is.gd/byCSxN02:21
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add press release announcing Moderna is testing .351 booster candidat… ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/9c1ce93f9f2756b6b127d9622955aed35bae104e )02:33
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add press release announcing Moderna is testing .351 booster candidat… → https://is.gd/n3xY6702:42
CoronaBot/r/covid19: Preliminary studies carried out by Butantan in vaccinated people demonstrate that Coronavac is able to neutralize variants of the new coronavirus (80 votes) | https://butantan.gov.br/noticias/estudos-preliminares-realizados-pelo-butantan-em-pessoas-vacinadas-demonstram-que-a-coronavac-e-capaz-de-neutralizar-variantes-do-novo-coronavirus | https://redd.it/m250rk02:43
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Recent Commits to links:master: Add excess mortality site for Brazil ( https://github.com/ljl-covid/links/commit/b375b63446cda227e3fe624ecfc122efe4b966b1 )02:48
BrainstormNew from https://covid19.specops.network : ljl-covid: Add excess mortality site for Brazil → https://is.gd/JjtzcT02:52
CoronaBot/r/covid19: Preliminary Clinical Results for the Efficacy of Carrageenan Nasal Spray on the Prevention of COVID-19 have been positive (82 votes) | https://milstein.conicet.gov.ar/la-eficacia-del-spray-nasal-con-carragenina-para-la-prevencion-del-covid-19-ha-dado-resultados-positivos/ | https://redd.it/m27qoo03:07
LjLde-facto, strange article https://www.livescience.com/two-covid-19-vaccines-same-day.html03:38
LjLalso wow at the results of the spray03:46
de-factostrange, which vaccine was that?03:55
de-factoseems the most important info is missing03:55
LjLde-facto, the whole article looks like a transcript from a video, also note at some point it talks about a THIRD dose, anyway see ##science03:58
de-factosuper weird story in deed04:05
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Joe Biden’s $1.9 trillion COVID-19 bill wins final approval in House → https://is.gd/WFSJxy04:05
LjLde-facto, what do you think about carrageenan? i'm going back in the logs and i know it's been mentioned a bunch of times, right now i looked at https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-108775/v1 and i just kinda wonder, even *aside* from COVID, if those results are real, then why are we not all spraying it all the time in winter / when we have a cold/flu?04:05
CoronaBot/r/covid19: SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccines induce a robust germinal centre reaction in humans (81 votes) | https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-310773/v1 | https://redd.it/m1xbz404:07
LjLgerminal centers... those were the ones supposedly getting destroyed by the virus IIRC04:08
de-factoyes thats what i meant when we discussed about reinfections a few days ago04:12
de-factono idea about that carrageenan thingy, have to read up on that but now i am too tired for that, need some sleep04:16
de-factomaybe it was similar to that spray Doc mentioned some months ago?04:17
LjLde-facto, okay. it was Doc who mentioned it a few times, but the Argentinian study that Brainstorm posted claims an 80% reduction in COVID cases, so... if it wasn't something to keep an eye on before, it is now04:17
LjLde-facto, yes although he also mentioned another spray that he thought was easier to obtain04:17
LjLthere are also a study or two that mention carrageenan as well as xylitol as stopping the virus in vitro04:18
de-factoit also was something weird like cellulose or such i dont remember exactly anymore04:18
LjLgood thing i pop xylitol mints all day04:18
LjLfreenode/##covid-19/2020-12-29.log-[14:27:47] <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.medikamente-per-klick.de/wick-erste-abwehr-nasenspray-spruehflasche-15ml-0236976104:19
LjLfreenode/##covid-19/2020-12-29.log-[14:28:08] <de-facto> btw i would not mess with that, there are no tests in vivo, especially not for early moments e.g. prior or during infection04:19
LjLfreenode/##covid-19/2020-12-29.log:[14:29:01] <DocScrutinizer05> there also was carrageen04:19
LjLfreenode/##covid-19/2020-12-29.log-[14:29:17] <DocScrutinizer05> but that is prolly not as easy to get04:19
LjLsorry, preceded by04:19
LjLfreenode/##covid-19/2020-12-29.log-[14:27:39] <DocScrutinizer05> %tr <de Mikro-Gel Nasenspray - fängt Erkältungsviren direkt im Nasen- und Rachenraum ab, dort wo sich Erkältungsviren ansiedeln und vermehren. Die Mikro-Gel Formulierung hat einen 3-fach Effekt: Erkältungsviren abfangen & einschließen, unschädlich machen und entfernen04:19
LjLfreenode/##covid-19/2020-12-29.log-[14:27:44] <Brainstorm> DocScrutinizer05, German to English: Micro-gel nasal spray - catches cold viruses directly in the nasal and throat areas, where cold viruses settle and multiply. The micro-gel formulation has a 3-fold effect: intercepting and enclosing cold viruses, rendering them harmless and removing them (MyMemory, Google) [... want %more?]04:19
LjLde-facto, but iota-carrageenan spray is already sold as a cold remedy, so hopefully it's not super dangerous04:19
de-factoyeah exactly that one04:20
de-factohttps://www.wick.de/de-de/produkte-gegen-erkaeltung-und-grippale-infekte/vorbeugung-der-erkaeltung/wick-erste-abwehr-mikro-gel-spray04:22
de-facto.tr <de Wasser, Hydroxypropylmethylcellulose (basierend auf pflanzlichen Inhaltsstoffen), Bernsteinsäure, Dinatriumsuccinat, Pyroglutaminsäure, Phenylethylalkohol, Zink EDTA, Zinkacetat, Polysorbat 80, Aroma: (Menthol, Kampfer, Eucalyptol), Saccharin-Natrium.04:23
Brainstormde-facto, German to English: Water, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose (based on vegetable ingredients), succinic acid, disodium succinate, pyroglutamic acid, phenylethyl alcohol, zinc EDTA, zinc acetate, polysorbate 80, flavor: (menthol, fighter, eucalyptol), sodium saccharine. (MyMemory) [... want %more?]04:23
de-factoso the active compound in that one is  hydroxypropyl methylcellulose not carrageenan, but i reminded me of that04:24
BrainstormUpdates for France: +20812 cases (now 4.0 million), +264 deaths (now 89565) since 16 hours ago — United Kingdom: +5907 cases (now 4.2 million), +200 deaths (now 125057) since 16 hours ago — Netherlands: +3730 cases (now 1.1 million), +29 deaths (now 15997) since 16 hours ago — Canada: +2382 cases (now 897781), +31 deaths (now 22335) since 16 hours ago04:24
LjLde-facto, well from what i understand, the way carrageenan is thought to work is it "sticks" to the virus and prevents it from entering the cells. i can imagine maybe there is cellulose or other elements with similar properties04:25
LjL"simply" mechanically stopping virions from entering04:25
the-wesit's like trying to invade russia in the winter04:26
LjLalthough somewhere else (wikipedia?) it said carrageenan is hypothized to have a direct effect on the immune system04:26
LjLthe-wes, lol04:26
de-factoyeah thats why it reminded me of that spray04:30
* de-facto needs to get some sleep, gn804:30
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: US will share COVID-19 vaccine if it has surplus: Joe Biden → https://is.gd/ktaXDe04:36
LjLgoodnight04:44
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Quad summit expected to do something on COVID vaccine → https://is.gd/eglLhu05:07
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pakistan to receive 45 million doses of Covid vaccine from India as part of Global alliance → https://is.gd/jWJjGq05:39
BrainstormNew from This Week In Virology: TWiV 729: A floret of spikes with Matt Frieman: Matt Frieman returns to TWiV to discuss the COVID-19 pandemic from the point of view of a coronavirologist, including his work with Novavax on their spike protein-based vaccine. → https://is.gd/P5WF8X06:11
BrainstormUpdates for Belgium: +3434 cases (now 794605), +20 deaths (now 22347) since 23 hours ago — Germany: +12213 cases (now 2.5 million) since 14 hours ago — Mongolia: +25 cases (now 3506), +1 deaths (now 4) since a day ago06:48
CoronaBot/r/coronavirus: Biden says he’ll share surplus US vaccines with rest of the world as he announces 100m more single-shot doses (10156 votes) | https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/biden-covid-vaccine-johnson-johnson-b1815474.html | https://redd.it/m28slw06:57
BrainstormNew preprint: Incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection according to baseline antibody status in staff and residents of 100 Long Term Care Facilities (VIVALDI study) by Maria Krutikov et al, made available as preprint on 2021-03-10 at https://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2021.03.08.21253110 [... want %more?]07:00
BrainstormNew from Science-Based Medicine: State legislatures consider bills prohibiting COVID-19 vaccination mandates and other public health measures: Bills seek to prevent the states and private employers from mandating COVID-19 vaccines and other pandemic mitigation measures. Some proposed legislation would severely handicap public health officials in [... want %more?] → https://is.gd/KQAxSD07:03
dxrwzy9y[m]Assuming you have a choice, would you choose Pfizer or Moderna?07:24
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Covid-19: Brazil surge reaches new level as daily deaths pass 2,000 → https://is.gd/Zyz2EG07:34
BrainstormUpdates for France: +28223 cases (now 4.0 million), +269 deaths (now 89570) since 20 hours ago — Lombardy, Italy: +4422 cases (now 644784), +70 deaths (now 28923) since 20 hours ago — Isle of Man, United Kingdom: +74 cases (now 1026) since 20 hours ago — United Kingdom: +7413 cases (now 4.2 million), +248 deaths (now 125105) since 20 hours ago07:44
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Cancer patients 'less protected' after first jab: A 12-week gap could leave those having two Pfizer jabs vulnerable to Covid-19, researchers suggest. → https://is.gd/Fqty2Q07:54
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Pandemic triggered 1.4 million unintended pregnancies due to almost 12 million women ‘losing access to contraception’ → https://is.gd/lbuUFv08:56
BrainstormNew from r/Coronavirus: Daily Discussion Thread | March 11, 2021: The World Health Organization maintains up-to-date and global information. Please refer to our Wiki for additional information. You can find answers to frequently asked questions about Covid-19 and vaccines in our FAQ . → https://is.gd/42EcFQ09:06
BrainstormNew from Reddit (test): Covid2019: Electronic ‘vaccine passports’ aimed at avoiding fraud coveted over paper documents → https://is.gd/BjMfQg09:47
de-factomaybe electronic vaccine passports should contain the RNA sequence of the vaccine used and a antibody titer value measured after some time. otherwise with leaky vaccines it pretty much does not make too much sense, if traveling will be allowed with vaccine passports it has to be made sure that passengers do *not* import evasive mutants of concern.10:01
de-factoscenario: UK citizen gets one shot of AZD-1222 and gets a vaccine passport, travels to South Africa to get B.1.351 and travels back to reimport that into his working place to seed a new vaccine resistant cluster. this scenario should be avoided by regulations.10:04
BrainstormUpdates for Estonia: +1956 cases (now 80929), +9 deaths (now 686) since 22 hours ago10:32
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express (Health): Art and Culture: The pandemic and the return of live music → https://indianexpress.com/article/lifestyle/art-and-culture/pandemic-live-music-concerts-events-7223743/10:35
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Health: The uncounted: People who are homeless are invisible victims of Covid-19 → https://is.gd/Jp8BEQ10:46
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Denmark suspends use of AstraZeneca vaccine until further notice due to increase in blood clot cases, EU starts investigation → https://is.gd/1jbYSu10:56
BrainstormNew from NPR: ER Doctor Who Diagnosed First Confirmed NYC COVID-19 Case Reflects 1 Year Later: For four months last year, Dr. Angela Chen only saw her child through a window. A year into the global pandemic, the view is a different, but it's impossible to forget the memories of last spring. → https://is.gd/jvfaMJ11:27
BrainstormNew from Politico: Denmark suspends rollout of Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine following cases of severe blood clots: The announcement follows initial reports in Austria of cases of blood clots after vaccination, which led to the suspension of a specific batch in the country. → https://is.gd/RofvK611:58
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid-19: NHS waits at record high as second wave hits care: The scale of cancelled treatments is revealed with hospitals facing 'dire' backlog after Covid surge. → https://is.gd/4U6FHo12:08
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Denmark suspends AstraZeneca COVID vaccine after blood clot reports → https://is.gd/XOBeEi12:40
dTalholy shit, Doctor Who diagnosed the the first NYC covid case?12:46
BrainstormNew from Scientific American: Health: How the U.S. Pandemic Response Went Wrong--and What Went Right--During a Year of COVID → https://is.gd/BHfcTI12:51
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Comunicato stampa del Consiglio dei Ministri n. 6 ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/comunicato-stampa-del-consiglio-dei-ministri-n-6/16383 )12:58
BrainstormUpdates for Hungary: +8312 cases (now 489172), +172 deaths (now 16497) since a day ago — Wallis and Futuna, France: +29 cases (now 48) since 2 days ago — Mauritius: +23 cases (now 664) since 3 days ago — France: +12407 cases (now 4.0 million) since 17 hours ago13:46
BrainstormNew from ECDC: Data on country response measures to COVID-19: This downloadable data file contains information on non-pharmaceutical interventions (or response measures)  that countries in the EU/EEA have reported to date. → https://is.gd/6BvFYG13:54
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: The Pfizer-BioNTech coronavirus vaccine 97% effective in preventing symptomatic COVID-19 cases and 94% effective against asymptomatic infection → https://is.gd/wNX5RX14:04
BrainstormNew from EMA: News and press releases: EMA recommends COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen for authorisation in the EU, CHMP, 11/03/2021: EMA has recommended granting a conditional marketing authorisation for COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen to prevent COVID-19 in people from 18 years of age.After... → https://is.gd/X1GhOY14:15
BrainstormNew from NPR: Indoor Visits With Nursing Home Residents OK, New CDC Guidance Says: The Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services now recommends that visitors and residents, whether vaccinated or unvaccinated, be allowed to meet in person under most circumstances. → https://is.gd/i79uqy14:26
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: General: COVID-19: latest updates → https://is.gd/ejWHzQ14:47
BrainstormUpdates for Switzerland: +1409 cases (now 569312), +10 deaths (now 10088) since 23 hours ago15:32
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Pandemic-related anxiety in pregnancy: Pregnant women in Japan who responded to an online survey early in the COVID-19 pandemic demonstrated higher levels of anxiety compared to women undergoing fertility treatments and to pregnant women in Iran. → https://is.gd/tHbTxZ15:40
BrainstormNew from Shane Crotty: @profshanecrotty: Four presidents on getting vaccinated → https://is.gd/0zKBBy16:01
BrainstormNew from ScienceNews: The COVID-19 pandemic is now a year old. What have scientists learned?: As we enter the pandemic’s second year, researchers share what they’ve learned and what they look forward to. → https://is.gd/1b0eIO16:12
CoronaBot/r/covid19: Real-World Evidence Confirms High Effectiveness of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine and Profound Public Health Impact of Vaccination One Year After Pandemic Declared (84 votes) | https://investors.pfizer.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2021/Real-World-Evidence-Confirms-High-Effectiveness-of-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-Vaccine-and-Profound-Public-Health-Impact-of-Vaccination-One-Year-After-Pandemic-Declared/default.aspx16:13
CoronaBot| https://redd.it/m2oqc116:13
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: Five things to know about the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine: Cheap and easy to store, the AstraZeneca/Oxford vaccine has given a significant boost to the global fight against coronavirus but also been hit by controversy. → https://is.gd/WiD6r516:43
BrainstormUpdates for Netherlands: +5333 cases (now 1.1 million), +43 deaths (now 16024) since 21 hours ago — Germany: +10832 cases (now 2.5 million) since 21 hours ago — Timor-Leste: +14 cases (now 159) since a day ago16:47
BrainstormNew from The Indian Express: World: Biden to announce next phase of fight against coronavirus in his first prime-time speech → https://is.gd/CDO1Ki16:54
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Myocardial Injury and Quality of Life After COVID-19 → https://is.gd/5UInNn17:16
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Characteristics of Long COVID-19 Syndrome → https://is.gd/Dndi4M17:27
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Efficacy and Safety Evaluation of Inhaleen Inhalation in Hospitalized COVID-19 Patients → https://is.gd/ZOLU9c17:59
BrainstormUpdates for United Kingdom: +6569 cases (now 4.2 million), +139 deaths (now 125126) since 22 hours ago18:08
pridumyvatel-bogкто руски?18:10
de-factoза међународно ћаскање већина корисника овде говори енглески језик18:13
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Conversazione telefonica del Presidente Draghi con il Primo Ministro libico Abdelhamid Dabaiba ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/conversazione-telefonica-del-presidente-draghi-con-il-primo-ministro-libico-abdelhamid )18:13
BrainstormNew from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Vitamin D3 Levels in COVID-19 Outpatients From Western Mexico → https://is.gd/fMb3Qy18:20
BrainstormNew from EMA: What's new: Medicine: Human medicines European public assessment report (EPAR): COVID-19 Vaccine Janssen, COVID-19 vaccine (Ad26.COV2-S [recombinant]), COVID-19 virus infection, Date of authorisation: 11/03/2021, Status: Authorised → https://is.gd/leysw618:42
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid vaccine: Homeless people to be prioritised: Experts say the move reflects the heightened risks from coronavirus for people who are homeless. → https://is.gd/gfpjbl18:52
BrainstormNew from BBC Health: Covid vaccine: Homeless people to be prioritised: Experts say the move reflects the heightened risks from coronavirus for people who are homeless. → https://is.gd/gfpjbl18:52
LjLde-facto: like the FDA, the EMA actually offers clinical data for the  vaccines it has approved (today it approved J&J) here https://clinicaldata.ema.europa.eu/web/cdp/home except... you need to have an EMA account, but apparently you can register18:56
LjLAlso if BNT is 94% effective against asymptomatic infection (strange Israel is already releasing a second study about it on a population level though) then it's a *slightly* better candidate for herd immunity than AZ, isn't it18:58
BrainstormUpdates for Jordan: +8300 cases (now 457151), +63 deaths (now 5169) since 23 hours ago — Italy: +25649 cases (now 3.1 million), +373 deaths (now 101184) since 23 hours ago18:58
BrainstormUpdates for France: +19423 cases (now 4.0 million), +181 deaths (now 89705) since 22 hours ago — Canada: +2814 cases (now 899314), +30 deaths (now 22347) since 23 hours ago19:04
de-facto94% efficacy against asymptomatic infections? i thought it was symptomatic...19:11
BrainstormNew from NPR: Biden To Address The Nation, Marking 1 Year Of Coronavirus Pandemic: The president's remarks come a day after Congress passed a $1.9 trillion relief package, and as more than 500,000 Americans have died from the virus. Watch his speech live at 8 p.m. ET. → https://is.gd/5HjxaI19:14
de-factowtf EMA servers had a "SEVERE ERROR" when i tried to register with them=!19:26
LjLde-facto: they found 97% against symptomatic ones. But I just read the headline. It's quite something that they surpassed the results from last time which were already very high for a real-life outcome19:27
de-factobut they send me a success email, humm?!19:27
LjLOn the other hand the AstraZeneca issues seem a bit like a nail in the coffin... I just heard the news on TV about it, even if the various death and thrombosis cases are not really related in the end, I think I'm pretty sure that most people viewing this coverage on TV would go "okay, I'm definitely not getting this one then"19:28
LjLSevere error, I guess they like the word severe in medicine19:28
pridumyvatel-bog<de-facto "за међународно ћаскање већина ко"> я пропагандирую руски тфу англ но хорошо19:29
pridumyvatel-bog с помощью переводчика внял и тебя19:30
pridumyvatel-bog* с помощью переводчика внял и тебя19:30
LjLI'm afraid I'm going to ask you to speak English19:32
de-factook im in *keyboard noises*...19:34
LjLAlso about this earlier posted [17:59]  Brainstorm: New from ClinicalTrials.gov: (news): Efficacy and Safety Evaluation of Inhaleen Inhalation in Hospitalized COVID-19 Patients → https://is.gd/ZOLU9c19:34
LjLThis is also carrageenan19:34
de-factopridumyvatel-bog, да, нисам изворни говорник, користећи Гоогле Транслате за ово19:35
LjLBut it will be completed only at the end of june19:35
de-factonice with an academic usage licence one can download all data from EMA there19:36
de-facto(had to provide them my full personal info though)19:36
de-factobtw same for GISAID one can register there with uni account and get full access19:38
de-factowow EMA got 125MB ZIP for BNT162b219:39
de-factopdf files with several thousands of pages, wow.19:40
LjLde-facto: oh wow I was expecting just reports like the FDA ones19:41
LjLI wouldn't say it's the same with GISAID since like I don't have a uni account...19:42
de-factohmm for Moderna i have no access to "clinical summary" but for BioNTech i had19:43
LjLOr did they ask you for affiliation and stuff? So far I just looked at the initial page where they want name and surname19:43
de-factoGISAID yeah they verify uni affiliation19:43
de-factonot EMA, but they want full personal details with ID for academic usage (allowing downloads)19:44
de-factoi wonder why there is not "Clinical summary" for Moderna19:44
de-factoafaik they also had not sequences available for Moderna, weird, maybe they have stricter copyrights for some reason?!19:45
LjLweren't the sequences all kinda secret except you had found documents they had forgotten to hide?19:49
de-factoyeah19:50
de-factobut Moderna werent among them19:50
de-factoso they probably used a different procedure19:50
LjLde-facto, this is a strange study https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.03.08.21252200v1.full.pdf - i found it in a discussion about the recent Israeli data (which seem kinda "too good"). this one is on health care workers and patients of nursing homes in Denmark. apparently the vaccine efficacy is *negative*, and by a lot not just a little, during the first 14 days... and we saw this in another study, but it was easy to say "people are probably20:02
LjLless careful because they're vaccinated", here i find it harder to justify. and then, after the second shot, unfortunately it looks that while efficacy in the workers was around the expected 90% (Pfizer is the vaccine), it was just 60% in the residents. however these are "adjusted" rates, i'm not clear on what exactly they needed to do, but there was a temporal thing to adjust for due to an intervening lockdown20:02
LjLi guess it's a less reliable study than a matched-cohort type like in israel20:03
LjLi dunno20:03
LjLthe table on page 5 has the most condensed information20:04
LjL"Expectedly, the estimated VE among LTCF residents was lower (VE; 64%, 95% CI; 14-84) than the VE reported by Polack and colleagues. This could be explained by the higher vulnerability and age distribution in our cohort, a median age of 84 years in LTCF residents compared to 52 years among the trial participants. It is also evident from studies of influenza vaccines, that vaccines are less effective in the elderly."20:06
LjL"This is the first study to report VE in LTCF residents, an age group not included in previous studies, where the populations were relatively young."20:07
de-factosure maybe vaccination puts stress on the immune system making it less capable to fight off pathogen entry from somewhere else (e.g. it collecting immune cells on the vaccination location in the arm or such?)20:12
de-factoalso: maybe participants get exposed to many more contacts during vaccination campaigns (hopefully not risk contacts!)20:13
de-factoi mean at least thats how adjuvants would work, locally provoke the immune system to accumulate cells there and then it would discover the antigen20:14
de-factonot sure about which portion of "early alert cells" would be mobilized to go towards the vaccination location (e.g. deltoid muscle)20:15
BrainstormNew from Politico: Clinical trials: EU countries halt Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine rollout over blood clots → https://is.gd/Hn8MAJ20:16
LjLand someone in the discussion brings up again how the reduction in cases in Israel isn't anything to write home about, even though so much of the population is vaccinated. but see, if there's actual increased risk after the first shot, that sure might help explain why. i think there's a lot of stuff we still need to find out about these vaccines...20:17
LjLbut man, aside from the blood clots, if Pfizer/BNT is really >90% effective *on asymptomatic cases*, please let's throw AstraZeneca away and try by all means to produce more mRNA20:17
LjLdid you read that pharma companies pushed back against (UN, i think? WHO?) requests to "open up" the patents for these vaccines?20:18
de-factolol and research was funded by taxpayers money...20:21
de-factowell yeah whatever, i dont care if they make money from it, as long as everything is done to ramp up production rates as much as possible, at ANY costs20:21
de-factoif they dont do that, imho the whole company should be taken over by their country of origin20:23
de-factowe absolutely have no space for any delays (if there would be some coming from patents or such, tbh i doubt that)20:24
LjLde-facto, i bought carrageenan spray, just fyi :P20:26
de-factonice so not hydroxypropyl methylcellulose but real carrageenan spray?20:31
LjLde-facto, yes, there is one with only iota-carrageenan (as used in the Argentinian study, and also in the study that was announced by Brainstorm), and one with iota+kappa (same amount of iota anyway). obviously i don't know if the concentration is the same as used in the study, since the paper isn't out... but, a few of these studies are looking specifically at "Carragelose®" which is this particular formulation20:40
LjLi do have the feeling this may turn out to not actually do anything, these studies are small20:40
LjLbut hey, it does have antiviral activity in vitro, and it's already being sold OTC, and considered safe20:40
LjLit's not quite the same as taking chloroquine20:40
de-factobut i dont understand how to use that, would you spray it everyday to protect from a possible infection?20:40
de-factoor prior to going among people?20:41
LjLde-facto, my idea was to spray it before and after going outside20:41
de-factolike it would have to block initial replication, but how would you know if that is asymptomatic?20:41
LjLde-facto, in the Argentinian study, though, it was on healthcare personnel, and i think they sprayed it 3 times a day20:41
LjLde-facto, well i'm not running a study. personally if it turns a potentially bad COVID into asymptomatic, i'd call it a win :P20:41
de-factowell but would COVID not only get bad after it goes down the lungs (where you could not reach it with that spray)? maybe when applying it on first symptoms it could slow its migration down the airways and give the immune system a time advantage?20:43
LjLde-facto, who knows about the actual mechanism? the study Brainstorm linked is about testing it *inhaled* so that it actually goes into the lung. but, that's for *treatment* of people hospitalized with COVID, so a different idea from the Argentinian study20:44
de-factointeresting20:45
LjLde-facto, let's put it this way, right now i see it as an adjunct to the mask. both have tentative evidence of helping, but little definitive evidence and there's a lot of nuance on how they could work.20:47
de-factowow20:47
de-factothe link from Brainstorm above20:47
LjLwhat?20:47
de-facto.title https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-countries-halt-oxford-astrazeneca-vaccine-rollout-after-blood-clots/?utm_source=RSS_Feed20:47
Brainstormde-facto: From www.politico.eu: EU countries halt Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine rollout over blood clots – POLITICO20:47
LjLyeah20:47
LjLi mentioned that, TV made a big deal of it20:47
LjLVon Der Leyen eventually said we don't know if the events are related to the vaccine at all20:48
LjLbut meanwhile so many countries halting it is going to strike a huge blow to AZ reputation among people20:48
LjL<LjL> On the other hand the AstraZeneca issues seem a bit like a nail in the coffin... I just heard the news on TV about it, even if the various death and thrombosis cases are not really related in the end, I think I'm pretty sure that most people viewing this coverage on TV would go "okay, I'm definitely not getting this one then"20:48
LjLin Italy one person died and another two people have had blood clots20:48
LjLbut the batch halted in Italy is a different one from the Austria/Denmark one20:49
LjLso it may be an issue with specific batches, it may be an issue with the vaccine in general, or it may not be an issue at all20:49
LjLnot sure it will be very hard to find out, even with autopsies20:49
de-factoi would be very careful with such info until its researched if there is a correlation or not20:49
LjL"While Italy hasn’t received that specific batch, it announced on Thursday that it's pausing the rollout of a different batch — ABV2856."20:50
BrainstormNew from Politico: Africa: EU approves J&J vaccine but faces wait to get doses → https://is.gd/uL4mgS20:50
LjLde-facto, sure, but just imagine how the general public will react. TV made it sound very ominous, tbh. and just the fact so many countries are putting it on hold sounds ominous20:50
de-factoif it undermines trust for no reason it would be very bad, if there is a reason investigation should be done properly without any guessing20:50
CoronaBot/r/coronavirus: Former Presidents Carter, Clinton, Bush and Obama and first ladies unite to urge Americans to get vaccinated (10053 votes) | https://www.cbsnews.com/news/former-presidents-carter-clinton-bush-obama-first-ladies-urge-americans-covid-19-vaccine/ | https://redd.it/m2oxki20:51
LjL"The Italian news agency ANSA reported that the halt was prompted by two deaths, both in Sicily, that are possibly connected to the batch. The latest, 43-year-old serviceman Stefano Paternò, was found dead in his home on Wednesday morning after having suffered a heart attack. He had been given the vaccine the day before.20:51
LjLPolice officer Davide Villa, 50, died 12 days ago, also after a dose from batch ABV2856, prompting the prosecutor’s office to open a manslaughter investigation. "20:51
LjLof course there is also20:51
LjL"The European Medicines Agency said that as of March 10, there were 30 reported cases of blood clotting-related incidents out of close to five million people who have received the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine in Europe, excluding the U.K. The regulator said the figures are “no higher than that seen in the general population,” and there's no indication that the vaccine caused the conditions."20:51
LjLbut, one also has to consider temporal correlation. obviously in Italy the big deal is these people died shortly after vaccination20:52
de-factohttps://translate.google.com/translate?hl=&sl=da&tl=en&u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sst.dk%2Fda%2FNyheder%2F2021%2FVaccination-med-COVID-19-vaccinen-fra-AstraZeneca-saettes-paa-pause-indtil-videre20:53
de-facto"At present, it cannot be concluded whether there is a link between the vaccine and the blood clots."20:54
LjLyes, it says that on Politico too quoted from Denmark, you didn't have to find a Danish source for that :P20:55
LjLi'm just saying, public trust is going to be undermined20:55
ubLIX[m]any autopsy data published, on whether those 30 cases had covid at the time of their deaths?20:55
LjLwe can be careful with interpreting the data, and assume it's unrelated20:55
LjLbut think of the average 70 years old person hearing this on TV20:55
LjLubLIX[m], i've no idea20:56
LjLde-facto, ubLIX[m]: also can you help me understand this reply? i'm quite confused about this danish study https://old.reddit.com/r/COVID19/comments/m2oqc1/realworld_evidence_confirms_high_effectiveness_of/gqlyb6c/?context=320:56
de-facto.title https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-prac-investigating-cases-thromboembolic-events-vaccines-benefits20:56
Brainstormde-facto: From www.ema.europa.eu: COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca: PRAC investigating cases of thromboembolic events - vaccine’s benefits currently still outweigh risks - Update | European Medicines Agency20:56
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Convocazione del Consiglio dei Ministri n. 7 ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/convocazione-del-consiglio-dei-ministri-n-7/16388 )20:58
-RSSBot[LjLmatrix- Feed: Consiglio dei Ministri n. 7 ( http://www.governo.it/it/articolo/consiglio-dei-ministri-n-7/16389 )20:58
de-facto"There is currently no indication that vaccination has caused these conditions, which are not listed as side effects with this vaccine. The position of EMA’s safety committee PRAC is that the vaccine’s benefits continue to outweigh its risks and the vaccine can continue to be administered while investigation of cases of thromboembolic events is ongoing."20:58
LjLubLIX[m], i supposed based on the strange Danish data here, people who are freshly vaccinated may be *more likely* to get COVID, so it's a bit of a stretch but a possible explanation too ;(20:58
de-facto"PRAC is already reviewing all cases of thromboembolic events, and other conditions related to blood clots, reported post-vaccination with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca."20:58
de-facto"The number of thromboembolic events in vaccinated people is no higher than the number seen in the general population. As of 10 March 2021, 30 cases1 of thromboembolic events had been reported among close to 5 million people vaccinated with COVID-19 Vaccine AstraZeneca in the European Economic Area."20:59
LjLde-facto, people are going to ask, if there is no indication of a connection, and considering lots of people who get the vaccine die just because people die in general... why, in this particular case, are many countries immediately suspending administration of the vaccine?20:59
LjLde-facto, you're so intent in showing there is no issue that you aren't noticing you're posting quotes i already posted identically :P such as the 30 out of 5 million being no different from general population21:00
de-factoi dont want to get into speculation about that, but i also know that ADZ-1222 is not the favorite of some21:00
LjLde-facto, well but these are EU governments halting it, it's not like it's "Russian propaganda"21:01
de-factoi personally think we should wait for the investigation, if we have no statistical data suggesting a raised risk, there is no reason to stop ongoing vaccinations21:01
LjLde-facto, well, hopefully the EMA will publish such investigation data very openly21:01
LjLmore openly than the vaccine submission data, at any rate21:02
ubLIX[m]hmmm21:02
de-factowe will hear about all sorts of weirdest side effects with all types of vaccines (just because so many people receive them), so we have to get used to asking: is the new side effect appearing more often in the vaccinated group than it normally would?21:02
LjLde-facto, if you look at VAERS you find all sort of deaths reported "from" the vaccine already. many of them, for many reasons21:03
de-factowithout a statistically significant increase in the vaccinated group there is not reason to be worried imho, but of course it has to be investigated (and openly communicated) as they currently do21:03
LjLso why are governments halting vaccination only for this particular case?21:04
LjL(i say "from" of course because in reality it's very likely most of them aren't due to the vaccine at all)21:04
de-factoso i see nothing wrong about all of this, except possibly scaring people for potentially no reason (we will have to see the results of the investigation)21:04
LjLwell, that's a big thing21:04
LjLpeople are already not so confident about AZ in the EU21:04
LjLif you scare them even more, you may burn your chances to reach herd immunity21:05
LjL(assuming that can be reached with AZ... by Israeli data, Pfizer would be a much better candidate since it basically stop asymptomatic transmission. AZ only reduces it by 50% or so, i don't remember the number but much lower than 94%)21:05
LjLs/transmission/infection/, no idea actually about how easy it is to transmit when vaccinated21:05
de-factoyes its problematic, peoples trust has to be justified (by open communication and proper investigations) and at the same time people should not be scared by such investigations ongoing but their trust in the approval agencies reassured for doing such things openly and with as much rigor as possible21:07
de-factoLjL, where do you take that 94% from?21:07
LjLde-facto, the latest announcement from Israel/Pfizer21:08
LjLyou even said earlier <de-facto> 94% efficacy against asymptomatic infections? i thought it was symptomatic...21:08
LjLand i said no21:08
de-factoyeah i still am puzzled about such a good result, do you have a link?21:08
LjLde-facto, https://investors.pfizer.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2021/Real-World-Evidence-Confirms-High-Effectiveness-of-Pfizer-BioNTech-COVID-19-Vaccine-and-Profound-Public-Health-Impact-of-Vaccination-One-Year-After-Pandemic-Declared/default.aspx21:09
LjL"Furthermore, the analysis found a vaccine effectiveness of 94% against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections."21:10
LjLof course it will be good to see the actual paper21:10
de-factonice thanks21:10
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Denmark, Norway and Iceland suspend AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine over blood clotting → https://is.gd/X376tZ21:11
BrainstormUpdates for Moldova: +1896 cases (now 200124), +37 deaths (now 4220) since a day ago — France: +23554 cases (now 4.0 million), +228 deaths (now 89793) since 16 hours ago — United Kingdom: +5357 cases (now 4.2 million) since 19 hours ago — Germany: +11138 cases (now 2.5 million) since 22 hours ago21:16
de-facto%papers Yeheskel Levy21:17
Brainstormde-facto: An error occurred while searching.21:17
de-facto%papers Levy21:17
Brainstormde-facto: An error occurred while searching.21:17
de-facto%papers author Levy21:17
Brainstormde-facto: An error occurred while searching.21:17
de-factohmm how do i search for all papers from Prof Yeheskel Levy?21:18
LjLiirc it was tricky because you needed to use regexps, let me check21:18
LjLugh actually i should be treadmilling21:18
LjLevery day i end up late :\21:18
LjL%papers author:*Levy21:19
BrainstormLjL, 51 papers: Efficient high throughput SARS-CoV-2 testing to detect asymptomatic carriers by Noam Shental et al, made available as preprint on 2020-04-20 at http://medrxiv.org/cgi/content/short/2020.04.14.20064618 [... want %more?]21:19
LjL%papers author:"Yeheskel Levy"21:19
BrainstormLjL: An error occurred while searching.21:19
LjLwell, at least one of them works21:19
LjLde-facto, anyway for the syntax, click on the "i" next to "advanced search" at https://preview.zbmed.de/21:20
de-factothanks21:23
de-factohmm cant find any paper for that yet, probably would have to wait21:25
de-factoanyways the press release from BioNTech / Pfizer sounds fantastic!21:26
de-facto"Findings from the analysis were derived from de-identified aggregate Israel MoH surveillance data collected between January 17 and March 6, 2021, when the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine was the only vaccine available in the country and when the more transmissible B.1.1.7 variant of SARS-CoV-2 (formerly referred to as the U.K. variant) was the dominant strain."21:26
de-facto"Vaccine effectiveness was at least 97% against symptomatic COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, severe and critical hospitalizations, and deaths. Furthermore, the analysis found a vaccine effectiveness of 94% against asymptomatic SARS-CoV-2 infections. For all outcomes, vaccine effectiveness was measured from two weeks after the second dose. "21:26
de-factowith a e=0.94 that would be endemic (R=1) with an assumed R0=3 for a portion of vaccinated v = (R0 - R) / ( e R0 ) = (3-1)/(0.94 3) = 0.709219858 ~ 71%21:32
whytekSometimes I wish I could just be as convinced as de-facto that vaccine is the way out of this. Unfortunatley I'm just not :(21:33
de-factoIn Israel there currently are 46.2% fully vaccinated according to https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations#what-share-of-the-population-has-been-fully-vaccinated-against-covid-1921:34
de-factowhytek, note my conditional tense "would" etc, i just am optimistic but also critical hence i want to see that data, unfortunately we only have press release it seems21:35
de-factooptimistic because of such announcements above there, but also critical because of papers like https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-021-03398-2 "Antibody Resistance of SARS-CoV-2 Variants B.1.351 and B.1.1.7"21:38
de-facto.title https://imgur.com/a/5awmD9E https://i.imgur.com/8co1IoL.jpg21:38
Brainstormde-facto: From imgur.com: SARS-CoV-2 VoC B.1.1.7 and B.1.351 neutralization evasion - Album on Imgur21:38
de-factoextracted from that paper there shows that neutralization against the South African VoC of SARS-CoV-2 B.1.351 with E484K is severely limited (~10-fold reduced)21:40
de-factoso whytek there are always two sides and i guess we should focus on how to prevent as much as possible from the bad side21:40
BrainstormNew from StatNews: Listen: A U.K. take on Covid vaccines, the demise of Watson Health, and a ‘synbio’ explainer: Who is better at making and distributing Covid vaccines, the U.S. or the U.K.? What went wrong with IBM's AI health care business? And what the heck is synthetic biology?… → https://is.gd/4ODICb21:42
de-factobtw the B.1.1.7 row in that graphic there is the VoC discovered in UK and also prevalent in Israel, hence included in that efficiancy claim from the press release of BioNTech/Pfizer21:43
de-factogood thing from that paper: mRNA vaccines seem to work extremely well (against the variants they include), bad thing: SARS-CoV-2 is able to evade that with mutations, ergo: if we update recently enough we probably have something very efficient21:45
de-factoproblem with that is that VoCs should not be allowed to spread and (updated) vaccination probably needs to be somewhat synced in the window of time for such an evasive mutant to breed in the population21:46
de-factoglobally that is of course21:47
de-factohence my persistence on mentioning production rates21:47
whytekde-facto, I'm totally with you on your expression of frustration with allowing travel etc.21:49
whytekdespite the fact that I personally kind of got caught "on the road" by this pandemic and still am <homeless>21:50
whytekThe situation in Mexico is baffling.21:50
whyteknothing makes sense. Life is more or less "normal" and as such we should all be dead.21:51
whytekThere were some crazy scenes the last few days - people queueing in the sun for vaccine.21:52
de-factono its not that fatal (and never was expected to be), it is quite dangerous for vulnerable risk groups such as elderly for example21:52
whytekqueueing all day...21:52
whyteklike sardines.21:52
de-factowhich vaccine is rolled out there in MX?21:52
whytekalso, people are packed into city buses here..21:52
de-factothat indeed sounds a bit dangerous in terms of transmission probabilities21:53
whytekde-facto I'm not quite sure what has arrived here.21:53
whytekAll i know is that the 2nd phase is for over 60s21:54
whytekthe 1st phase having been health workers and the military (I think)21:54
de-factowell at least reported cases are not exploding currently thats good https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/mexico/21:55
whytekJust looking at https://coronavirus.gob.mx/preguntas-frecuentes-vacunacion/21:55
de-facto2.71 doses per 100 people does not play any role in that yet though21:55
whytekIt says "you'll be told which vaccine you are getting at the time of application"21:55
whytekMy general reality check on mexican offical figures would be to make it x1021:56
whytekeven so it's still not that bad.21:57
whytekit's even.21:57
whytekas you note... no spikes.21:57
whytekI'd be slightly concerned about the onset of the rainy season in late April/May21:57
de-factowell 0.09 doses per 100 people per day is not exactly fast yet but at least they started in MX so thats good, yet would really have to increase rates (like almost everywhere else too)21:58
whytekBTW, something I wanted to ask for a while.. who runs the offloop.net covid graph? I think it would be cool if you could order the list of countries by population.21:58
de-factowhytek,  are people spending lots of their time outdoors right now in MX?21:58
whytekpure counts don't make so much sense, when you compare say Mexico with Ireland.21:59
de-factoe.g. less indoor meetings closely packed breathing the same air?21:59
whytekde-facto, Personally, I avoid closed spaces.21:59
de-factoyeah of course reported cases depend on testing21:59
de-factothats smart21:59
whytekbut that's easy enough here as daytime temperatures are in the region of 28 to 33 degs centigrade.21:59
de-factovery nice, here in Germany they are single digit on day and sometimes negative at night22:00
whytekin general spaces are well ventilated.22:00
de-factoi think that helps a lot, but fully packed bus does sound a bit scary tbh22:00
whytekde-facto, yep... I've been in Germany in the winter - although mostly the recent mild winters22:00
whytekHere everybody has a thermometer - they take temperatures on entry to shops/cafes restuarants everything...22:01
whytekyou are constantly having ray guns pointed at your head :))22:01
de-factowhytek, im curious, do you know anything about VoCs in MX? do they also do some sequencing to estimate their spread?22:02
whytekalso, they are fanatic about "sanitizer" gel. etc22:02
whytekde-facto, As far as I am aware they are not doing sequencing. but don't quite me on that.22:02
de-factowell thats good but only 1 in 5 got fever or such22:02
whytekit would make sense to see them arrive as there are ZERO entry restrictions.22:02
whytek*quote22:03
de-factoand hand hygiene with absolute rigor only reduced respiratory disease transmission by something like 16% for other resp diseases afaik22:03
whytek*them = VoC22:03
whytekyeah. I started carrying a little atomizer bottle around with me with water and some alcohol becasue the gel eventually irritates.22:03
de-factodo labs create sequences of positive test samples to estimate the part of infections caused by VoCs?22:04
whytekquite a few poeple are ocmplaining of skin irritation.22:04
whytekalso (I hope they've stopped now) but for a while they were forcing restaurant workers to use surgical gloves in the heat22:04
whytekwhich was causing skin irritations.22:04
de-facto(personally i do sanitize my hands a lot, but i think air hygiene/exchange/masks/avoid indoor meetings helps more)22:05
whytekI'm afraid I don't know what the labs are doing.22:06
whytekPositive test result percentage is still really high though, so I think that many cases are still not getting tested.22:06
whytekHmm positive rate has dropped to 30% recently according to22:08
whytekhttps://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-testing22:08
de-facto.title https://www.vallartadaily.com/new-strains-of-coronavirus-including-one-first-discovered-in-puerto-vallarta/22:08
Brainstormde-facto: From www.vallartadaily.com: New Strains of Coronavirus, including one first discovered in Puerto Vallarta22:08
whytekit was ~40% at the end of last year.22:08
de-factonot sure about the quality of that press but it claims E484K was found in MX22:08
whytekWell as I said.. it can only be a matter of time, as the borders are open22:09
de-factoyeah i remember MX had crazy high positive rates, above 50%22:09
whytekhttps://www.flightradar24.com/airport/mex/arrivals22:09
de-factoSARS-CoV-2 VoC hub :(22:12
whytekRight.. and as I was saying at the beginning of this.. it's baffling.. it /should/ be much worse.22:14
BrainstormNew from Medical Xpress: France sees 'no need' to suspend AstraZeneca vaccine: France will continue to use AstraZeneca's COVID vaccine, the health minister said Thursday after several European nations halted its use due to concerns over blood clots. → https://is.gd/jObI6n22:14
de-factoi think they only recently started with their spread22:18
de-factoa month ago there were almost no VoCs in Germany too, now we probably have the majority of new cases caused by the B.1.1.7 VoC22:19
de-factoso maybe the Americas are still a bit behind with their VoCs?22:20
whytekmaybe22:21
* whytek is afk for a bit22:21
de-factobtw i am pretty sure VoCs have been incubated in many other places too where high incidence was tolerated over long times, and now with immunity beginning to wane the selection pressure changed giving raise to new VoCs22:22
LjLwhytek: offloop is run by someone who has left this channel unfortunately. But while you can't *sort* countries by population you can definitely tick the box to make the counts be per population22:32
BrainstormNew from r/WorldNews: worldnews: Novavax vaccine 96% effective against original coronavirus version in UK trial → https://is.gd/l43u4l23:36
ArsaneritNovavax is pending emergency authorisation in the EU?23:37
LjLArsanerit: don't know about authorization, but it was not part of the original EU plan at all, not sure if they've ordered some at the last minute23:58
ArsaneritWhy don't they buy everything likely to get authorisation...?23:59
Arsaneritgoodnight23:59

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