pixelherodev | I tried out Devuan Jessie a while back, and while I liked it, there were too many broken parts for my taste. Some parts of MATE didn't work, the network-manager didn't work, etc. On a whim, I installed it again today, and I was floored. This project has matured nicely, and I'll try to make time and help out a bit :D | 07:21 |
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pixelherodev | For starters, there's a couple of applets for MATE that aren't in Debian that I'd like to package for Devuan if that's okay. | 07:22 |
KatolaZ | pixelherodev: you know that there is a new stable called ASCII right? | 07:25 |
pixelherodev | Yeah | 07:26 |
KatolaZ | :) | 07:26 |
pixelherodev | That's what I meant | 07:26 |
pixelherodev | I installed ASCII today | 07:26 |
KatolaZ | ok, wasn't clear | 07:26 |
KatolaZ | sorry | 07:26 |
pixelherodev | I realized that but wasn't sure how to amend my post, my fault :P | 07:26 |
pixelherodev | s/amend/correct/ - I couldn't figure out how to add to it without it being awkward. | 07:26 |
pixelherodev | The second 4GB RAM stick and faster+larger hard drive I upgraded the laptop with earlier today obviously didn't hurt, but the improvement is quite noticeable. This is now in my top #2 distros list (Gentoo still wins, sorry!) | 07:30 |
KatolaZ | pixelherodev: no need to apologize | 07:31 |
KatolaZ | :) | 07:32 |
KatolaZ | nobody is selling Devuan here | 07:32 |
pixelherodev | ...I might. I now have a CD with it I don't need, I'll see if I can pawn it off later lol | 07:32 |
pixelherodev | Just to confirm, brisk-menu isn't currently packed in Devuan, correct? | 07:38 |
pixelherodev | `apt search brisk` came up empty, but I wanted to double-check. | 07:39 |
pixelherodev | Oh wait, it's been added to Sid in Debian. Never mind then :) | 07:40 |
golinux | pixelherodev: Sid = Ceres in Devuan | 07:43 |
golinux | Best to get brisk from Devuan repos. | 07:44 |
pixelherodev | Already cloned built and installed :P | 07:46 |
KatolaZ | pixelherodev: pkginfo.devuan.org | 07:47 |
pixelherodev | ...right, thanks. | 07:47 |
pixelherodev | I'll try out Beowulf I guess. Thanks for that link, it was a huge help | 07:48 |
pixelherodev | Wow. Did the fonts change from ASCII to Beowulf or are my eyes worse than I thought? | 07:52 |
KatolaZ | pixelherodev: which fonts? | 07:53 |
pixelherodev | The defaults I guess? | 07:53 |
pixelherodev | The fonts in Hexchat and window titles in the panel for starters | 07:53 |
pixelherodev | They look different suddenly after upgrading. | 07:53 |
pixelherodev | *That*'s what kept bugging me! | 08:45 |
pixelherodev | How do I get udisks to stop asking for password (in terminals) or failing outright (through GUI)? | 08:46 |
pixelherodev | Also, how can I stop my computer from instantly shutting down when I hit the power button? | 14:31 |
pixelherodev | It does that on every DE and before I've logged in if that helps | 14:31 |
pixelherodev | Never mind, figured that out | 14:33 |
pixelherodev | Ran a grep on /etc for power-related stuff and found /etc/elogind/logind.conf, was able to figure it out from there | 14:33 |
nemo | So... mate-power-manager is banned - mildly unfortunate for all of us on the mate desktop + devuan (my SO, my father in law, me...) | 15:31 |
nemo | #mate says it is due to udev dep, which is precisely why eudev was created | 15:31 |
nemo | I note that mate-power-manager in gentoo has following: | 15:31 |
nemo | systemd? ( sys-apps/systemd ) | 15:31 |
nemo | !systemd? ( >=sys-auth/consolekit-0.9.2 )" | 15:31 |
nemo | no additional patches either | 15:32 |
nemo | so... is a rebuild sufficient? | 15:32 |
nemo | hm. only 1.18.1 though | 15:34 |
nemo | I don't have mate on my gentoo machine but emerge -pv of ~x86 mate-power-manager-1.18.1 did not pull it in | 15:37 |
nemo | [ebuild N ] sys-auth/consolekit-1.2.0::gentoo USE="acl pam policykit -cgroups -debug -doc -evdev -pm-utils (-selinux) {-test} -udev" 1,100 KiB | 15:37 |
nemo | [ebuild N ~] mate-extra/mate-power-manager-1.18.1::gentoo USE="applet -gnome-keyring -pm-utils -policykit -systemd {-test}" 3,135 KiB | 15:37 |
nemo | I don't know much about debian package rebuilding, but maybe I can repackage the debian build in a similar fashion | 15:38 |
nemo | https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/mate-extra/mate-power-manager/mate-power-manager-1.18.1.ebuild | 15:38 |
nemo | maybe the issue is the version of power manager in ascii.. | 15:55 |
nemo | oh. and my buddy's main complaint on his recent conversion to devuan was he found the installer really confusing - specifically the sudo vs su part - apparently he screwed up one install as a result ☺ | 15:56 |
nemo | but I remember that coming up on #devuan like... over a year ago | 15:56 |
KatolaZ | nemo: it must have been the installed shipped with desktop-live, maybe | 15:57 |
onefang | That's one of the parts where even I was confused about one of the questions. Just did what it told me to do, which is to simply leave at defaults anything I didn't understand. | 15:57 |
KatolaZ | any feedbac on that will help improving things :) | 15:59 |
KatolaZ | s/bac/back/ | 16:04 |
onefang | I was too busy tearing my hair out over nVidia drivers to make desktop-live installer notes, but I'll likely run it again some time later. | 16:06 |
nemo | KatolaZ: oh... the live USB has sudo and su setup so the installer running from the USB doesn't know which one to use? | 16:09 |
KatolaZ | nemo: ? | 16:11 |
KatolaZ | nemo: the installer is just asking you what you prefer :) | 16:11 |
nemo | KatolaZ: was just trying to understand what you meant by "it must have been the installed shipped with desktop-live maybe" | 16:11 |
nemo | KatolaZ: that's what I basically figured, and what I told him, he just felt it was not a useful question | 16:12 |
nemo | maybe tuck it out of way in some advanced thingy | 16:12 |
KatolaZ | nemo: if you don't understand a question, leave the default | 16:12 |
KatolaZ | if you need Ubuntu, install ubuntu | 16:12 |
nemo | heh | 16:12 |
KatolaZ | :) | 16:12 |
nemo | one more bit of feedback from him ☺ | 16:12 |
nemo | 08:15 <@sheepluva> nemo: hm. devuan seem to have no official support/LTS/end-of-life O_o | 16:12 |
KatolaZ | :) | 16:13 |
nemo | I guessed that it was basically debian's | 16:13 |
nemo | 09:58 <@sheepluva> nemo: I did the same WAG, but if they want to be taken seriously in the enterprise sector they should really specify their support time spans | 16:13 |
KatolaZ | I wonder whether people ask these questions also for other distros | 16:13 |
nemo | I have no idea if "seriously in enterprise" is a goal | 16:13 |
nemo | depends on the distro I imagine | 16:13 |
KatolaZ | or on the user, I guess | 16:13 |
nemo | well. I do care about EOL for debian and ubuntu. I care a lot less for gentoo | 16:14 |
nemo | different models | 16:14 |
nemo | and minor distros you should just be grateful they are still there a month later | 16:14 |
onefang | lol | 16:15 |
KatolaZ | the fact that people ask these questions for Devuan should tell you a lot then :) | 16:15 |
KatolaZ | (meaning that they think it will not disappear a month later...) | 16:15 |
nemo | well. I'm hopeful devuan will flourish | 16:15 |
nemo | the fact that it is still 95+% debian probably means debian EOL rules. but might be nice to mention explicitly | 16:16 |
KatolaZ | thanks for the suggestion nemo | 16:16 |
onefang | My biggest gripe with refracta is that it will twiddle it's thumbs doing stuff in the background, but give no feedback to the user that they should just sit and wait. | 16:16 |
nemo | oh. and on the mate-power-manager - waddaya think? would it be possible to build it from debsrc? will that ban be a problem even if I did? | 16:16 |
KatolaZ | nemo: why is mate0-power-manager banned? | 16:17 |
nemo | KatolaZ: udev dependency according to #mate | 16:17 |
KatolaZ | impossible | 16:17 |
nemo | KatolaZ: but ofc gentoo has eudev for that, and now the gentoo 1.18 mate-power-manager package has made systemd optional too in preference of consolekit | 16:17 |
nemo | KatolaZ: so yeah. I perked up when I saw that on the devuan banned packages list | 16:18 |
KatolaZ | nemo: only packages who depend EXPLICITLY on systemd are banned from devuan | 16:18 |
nemo | hm | 16:18 |
KatolaZ | so this means that mate-power-manager has an explicit dependency on systemd | 16:18 |
nemo | KatolaZ: so maybe another package from upstream that might need a fork/src patch? ☹ | 16:18 |
nemo | KatolaZ: there's no patches in the gentoo repo, so the explicit requirement for systemd must be in the debian build | 16:18 |
KatolaZ | dunno nemo | 16:19 |
KatolaZ | until 4 months ago mate was not even installable/usable on ASCII | 16:19 |
nemo | oh interesting | 16:20 |
nemo | good thing I didn't upgrade her devuan machine then ☺ | 16:20 |
nemo | she kinda needs her mate | 16:20 |
KatolaZ | nemo: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/mate-power-manager | 16:21 |
KatolaZ | the package depends explicitly on systemd | 16:21 |
nemo | hm. 1.16 | 16:21 |
KatolaZ | in theory there is an "or consolekit" there | 16:21 |
nemo | oh? | 16:21 |
nemo | ok cool | 16:21 |
nemo | so I'd need to rebuild against consolekit, then remove the ban from the devuan list | 16:22 |
KatolaZ | uh? | 16:23 |
KatolaZ | how can you remove it from the banned list? | 16:23 |
KatolaZ | :D | 16:23 |
KatolaZ | let me double-check with parazyd | 16:24 |
KatolaZ | maybe there is no need to rebuild it | 16:24 |
nemo | KatolaZ: O_o I can't? | 16:24 |
nemo | KatolaZ: figured it was something that could be done locally?? | 16:25 |
KatolaZ | uh? | 16:25 |
KatolaZ | the ban is on the repo | 16:25 |
KatolaZ | if you build it locally you don't need to do anything | 16:25 |
KatolaZ | just install the local package | 16:25 |
KatolaZ | but | 16:25 |
KatolaZ | you might just try to get the debian package | 16:25 |
KatolaZ | and install it | 16:25 |
KatolaZ | unmodified | 16:25 |
nemo | kk | 16:25 |
KatolaZ | I guess amprolla does not handle some "|" correctly | 16:26 |
nemo | KatolaZ: oh yeah. 'cause you guys have some libsystemd0 stub shim right? | 16:26 |
KatolaZ | o_O | 16:26 |
nemo | KatolaZ: I mean, to ensure packages built with it aren't missing symbols | 16:26 |
KatolaZ | that's not related here | 16:26 |
nemo | ok... | 16:26 |
KatolaZ | I guess the dep is just plainly wrong on the Debian side | 16:26 |
nemo | thought if mate-power-manager was built against systemd it would need that to even launch | 16:26 |
KatolaZ | they meant it to depend on libpam-systemd | 16:27 |
nemo | oh good | 16:27 |
KatolaZ | and instead put systemd | 16:27 |
nemo | maybe they don't care that much about accurate deps given systemd is assumed now | 16:27 |
KatolaZ | nemo: can you please try to install the Debian package and report? | 16:28 |
nemo | KatolaZ: well first I have to upgrade her machine to ascii 😃 | 16:28 |
nemo | she left it on this time | 16:28 |
nemo | so I can try doing it remotely | 16:28 |
nemo | it's still on jessie | 16:28 |
nemo | hm. rebooting could be a problem. it usually is. | 16:29 |
onefang | Remote upgrades, fun fun fun. | 16:29 |
nemo | hee | 16:29 |
KatolaZ | nemo: why do you need to reboot? | 16:29 |
nemo | KatolaZ: well it is a power manager tool | 16:29 |
KatolaZ | I have remotely upgraded no less than 20 machines from jessie to ascii | 16:29 |
nemo | was thinking it might depend on, dunno, acpi or some other kernel facility | 16:29 |
KatolaZ | and half of them where debian jessie originally | 16:29 |
onefang | I've spent most of the last week scripting and testing a debootstrap ASCII install, so that later I can remote upgrade my server that's on the other side of the planet. | 16:29 |
nemo | so tough to test reliably w/o reboot right? | 16:29 |
KatolaZ | nemo: a reboot is *necessary* only if you change kernel | 16:30 |
KatolaZ | or some specific kernel options | 16:30 |
onefang | I tend to reboot after any update that will modify the boot up process. | 16:30 |
nemo | KatolaZ: well that'll definitely happen on upgrade, but whatev. it probably shouldn't limit testing the package | 16:31 |
nemo | at least verifying it runs | 16:31 |
nemo | here goes... | 16:31 |
onefang | I agree, it's not *necessary*, but it's best to test that stuff sooner, rather than later, when shit goes wrong. | 16:31 |
KatolaZ | bbl | 16:32 |
nemo | just wondering before I go to too much trouble | 16:32 |
nemo | is there a nicer way to do it than editing sources.list ? | 16:32 |
onefang | Editing sources.list should be trivial enough for someone that is confident doing a remote upgrade. | 16:33 |
nemo | onefang: heh | 16:34 |
nemo | onefang: it's not so much the vim + %s/// that's the worry | 16:34 |
nemo | it's just that there might be something else needed as well | 16:34 |
nemo | but here goes | 16:34 |
onefang | That's why I've spent a week scripting and testing. So there's no surprises when I do it for real. | 16:35 |
nemo | onefang: hm. slight delay I guess. she's actually using it right now and needs me to run handbrake. ☺ | 16:38 |
nemo | huzzah for ssh -YC | 16:38 |
jaromil | ahoy... pad for tonite? | 17:47 |
golinux | https://pad.dyne.org/code/#/1/edit/x7D2m3ojX78lP4xPNv3Bvg/G1SACB6iJrBzFzLg64kJnkJ6/ | 17:55 |
jaromil | thanks golinux | 18:07 |
gnu_srs1 | nemo: KatolaZ: Did you see my mail about mate-power-manager to devuan-dev? It should not be banned, it works fine ;) | 20:15 |
nemo | gnu_srs1: I would not have seen your email obv ☺ | 20:16 |
nemo | gnu_srs1: and I'm still upgrading | 20:16 |
nemo | but good to know | 20:16 |
nemo | hopefully someone w/ a + can fix that | 20:18 |
KatolaZ | gnu_srs1: we are double-checking that | 20:18 |
KatolaZ | maybe it was erroneously banned by amprolla | 20:19 |
nemo | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2006 clearly surprised a few people on here | 20:20 |
nemo | someone made a repo | 20:20 |
KatolaZ | nemo: the repoat hezeh has been around for about 2 years :) | 20:26 |
golinux | AntoFox maintains MATE for Devuan and that is his personal working space. | 20:26 |
KatolaZ | maybe more | 20:26 |
KatolaZ | nemo: it just seems that mate-power-manager was unduly banned by amprolla | 20:27 |
nemo | KatolaZ: I mean. someone hosted a build on their repo. I have no idea when the repo appeared ☺ | 20:28 |
golinux | Who is "someone" | 20:28 |
golinux | ? | 20:28 |
nemo | golinux: ... Antofox was elaborating on "someone made a repo" | 20:29 |
nemo | golinux: anyway. the build is pretty new | 20:29 |
nemo | dates to earlier this month | 20:30 |
KatolaZ | nemo: hezeh is by AntoFox | 20:31 |
nemo | right? | 20:32 |
nemo | KatolaZ: where's the confusion ☺ | 20:32 |
KatolaZ | I don't know | 20:33 |
KatolaZ | I am not confused | 20:33 |
KatolaZ | :) | 20:33 |
nemo | me either! so everyone is fine | 20:33 |
KatolaZ | great | 20:33 |
nemo | anyway. yeah this situation w/ power manager seems to be new, clearly folks care about it, and appears to be an accident so hopefully by the time she actually gets back to her computer it'll already have been fixed ☺ | 20:34 |
jaromil | i have lined up more 'old business' in the pad | 22:23 |
jaromil | made of defined actions that were easy to take away from the post-ascii bikeshed | 22:23 |
jaromil | lets try to keep the meeting short and focused please! | 22:25 |
golinux | Thank you for doing that. | 22:29 |
golinux | jaromil: ^^^ | 22:29 |
jaromil | moment | 22:34 |
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