| Xenguy | What's the major linux distro that has a fantastic wiki? | 06:02 |
|---|---|---|
| Xenguy | Arch I believe. It's just a super resource... | 06:02 |
| Xenguy | I would not rule out the value of a good wiki, to centralize distro knowledge, when it's done well | 06:03 |
| Xenguy | https://wiki.archlinux.org/ | 06:10 |
| Xenguy | Powered by MediaWiki | 06:11 |
| sasquatch | https://friendsofdevuan.org/doku.php/start <<< not so funny | 06:12 |
| Xenguy | OK I'll bite sasquatch | 06:12 |
| Xenguy | And BTW you seem whiny most recently; what's the problem? | 06:13 |
| sasquatch | a wiki that#s mostly ignored just doesnt make sense | 06:13 |
| Xenguy | Being ignored implies lack of usefullness, to me | 06:14 |
| Xenguy | If it doesn't offer relevant information, then yeah, what's the point? | 06:14 |
| sasquatch | which boils down to needing a critical mass of writers/proofreaders/... to keep it gounf | 06:14 |
| Xenguy | Well sure | 06:15 |
| sasquatch | and that's not there yet | 06:15 |
| Xenguy | I mean, I'm in, if the interest is there | 06:15 |
| Xenguy | Count me in | 06:15 |
| sasquatch | I just deleted my account | 06:15 |
| sasquatch | sorry | 06:15 |
| Xenguy | I love writing stuff like that, and I do like the wiki model... | 06:15 |
| Xenguy | Like I said, you're getting whiny, and for what reason? | 06:16 |
| sasquatch | writing in markdown+git is ok too | 06:16 |
| Xenguy | Relax, and float downstream | 06:16 |
| sasquatch | it is dyyyyyying... | 06:16 |
| Xenguy | Niiiice | 06:16 |
| Xenguy | This is not... | 06:16 |
| sasquatch | later in the text | 06:16 |
| Xenguy | Anyhow, it's an easy to learn, minimal markup, so not much of a barrier to entry | 06:17 |
| sasquatch | I'll rejoin when one doesnt feel so alone in the wiki | 06:17 |
| Xenguy | OK brother, I'm down... Where do we start? | 06:17 |
| Xenguy | I like the idea of standing on the shoulders of giants | 06:17 |
| Xenguy | That Arch wiki has a well deserved reputation | 06:18 |
| Xenguy | So that makes it a natural model as a starting point | 06:18 |
| Xenguy | Maybe we could look at it, and decide what is genius, and what isn't? | 06:19 |
| sasquatch | a forum that offers a wiki page per thread would be an environment that would invite to summarise the threads results without copying senseless detours... | 06:19 |
| Xenguy | Take the good point anyhow | 06:19 |
| * Xenguy tries to understand... | 06:19 | |
| Xenguy | There's a forum already, yes? | 06:19 |
| Xenguy | I think that is separate from the project of a wiki | 06:20 |
| Xenguy | Again, check out Arch Wiki and then we will talk again I'm sure | 06:20 |
| sasquatch | yes... but I think forum and wiki should merge somehow | 06:20 |
| Xenguy | Aha, I see | 06:20 |
| Xenguy | I'm not so sure they should... | 06:20 |
| Xenguy | Forum issues are like bug reports, and their solutions... | 06:21 |
| Xenguy | It allows people to converse about technical issues... | 06:21 |
| sasquatch | some threads claim to be HOWTO like | 06:21 |
| Xenguy | Now the wiki, that's more just a pure knowledge base, with good documentation | 06:21 |
| Xenguy | That's true | 06:22 |
| sasquatch | but such stuff should be rewritten as wiki text | 06:22 |
| Xenguy | Well, certainly the wiki authors could spot good tips on the forums, and then capture that in the wiki, it makes sense | 06:22 |
| sasquatch | and all boils down to the count of ppl doing this | 06:23 |
| Xenguy | Sure | 06:23 |
| sasquatch | maybe devuan just needs a bit more growth | 06:23 |
| Xenguy | Like I say, I'd be interested in the wiki concept... | 06:23 |
| sasquatch | #devuan-wiki | 06:24 |
| Xenguy | If we had a blessing from someone to take whatever current wiki exists, and start to work it, I'd be willing to put in some time on that | 06:24 |
| Xenguy | Aha, will /join | 06:24 |
| sasquatch | ok... I'll add it again too... but I'll kill some other items from my todo list before I touch the wiki again | 06:25 |
| Xenguy | sasquatch: Your not there yourself | 06:25 |
| Evilham | Xenguy, sasquatch: did you see my recent email about documentation and wiki usage on devuan-dev? | 13:52 |
| Evilham | there are a couple issues with friendsofdevuan.org, one is that it's not a thing that is official from the project | 13:53 |
| Evilham | the other one being that those things are super spread out in many places and in many cases duplicated | 13:53 |
| Evilham | so, tbh, I'd propose: let's get the things that can be useful out of friendsofdevuan.org and put them together with the rest of the documentation-like resources under one unique thing | 13:54 |
| Evilham | it'll be easier to contribute (IIRC friendsofdevuan accounts have to be vetted by $someone and that can take some time vs using a gdo account) | 13:55 |
| Evilham | and also easier to have an overview of wth is where | 13:55 |
| Xenguy | Evilham: Makes sense to me, and as I mentioned somewhere, Arch Wiki has a rather good reputation, so I'd be inclined to seek inspiration from their setup as well. | 14:11 |
| Xenguy | But no, I didn't see the recent email you mentioned. | 14:12 |
| Evilham | yup, arch has a bunch of wiki contribution sthough, so exacrtly the same wouldn't work | 14:12 |
| Xenguy | True, I looked at it briefly yesterday, and they claim to have thousands of people contributing (perhaps not simultaneously, but still), which is rather impressive, if true. | 14:17 |
| fsmithred | and we have what, half a dozen maybe? | 15:08 |
| Xenguy | Not sure, but yeah, a lot less I assume. | 15:38 |
| fsmithred | One potential problem with allowing anyone to edit is that you might get people who should not be writing documentation. | 15:40 |
| fsmithred | We had one that wrote so badly it was impossible to fix it. | 15:41 |
| Xenguy | For sure | 15:42 |
| Xenguy | Fortunately I can write decent documentation; it's just a matter of time and effort, and therein lies the rub... | 15:43 |
| fsmithred | yup | 15:43 |
| Xenguy | As I have mentioned previously, I've learned that I'm a shitty volunteer, meaning that I'm not really good doing things out of a sense of 'duty'; I really need to have my heart in the game for anything to get done. | 15:44 |
| Xenguy | If I'm not actually interested in an activity, I'll probably end up not doing it. | 15:45 |
| fsmithred | that's ok - you get better results if you're interested | 15:45 |
| Xenguy | But with that caveat in mind, I would be willing to have a look at the wiki work, and see what happens. Can't hurt to try. | 15:45 |
| fsmithred | and since we're a volunteer group, that's pretty much what everyone does | 15:46 |
| Xenguy | I always rather liked the wiki concept, and have used them in the past. | 15:46 |
| Xenguy | Fair enough | 15:46 |
| enyc | fsmithred: the 'WARNING: Device /dev/sda not initialized in udev database even after waiting 10000000 microseconds.' etc etc is certainly intermittent, doesn't happen every boot ..... | 19:07 |
| enyc | may be more common with beowulf // newer kernel 5.2.0-2- maybe, but not sure there | 19:08 |
| enyc | udev + init scripts race condition or something | 19:08 |
| fsmithred | I was getting it with 4.19 | 19:10 |
| fsmithred | and I was getting it when chrooted into the installed system. Installing grub. | 19:10 |
| enyc | Hrrrrrrrrrrrm | 19:11 |
| fsmithred | And I messed around with mounting more things in the chroot. I think maybe /run/udev made it go away. | 19:11 |
| fsmithred | mounting that to the host | 19:11 |
| enyc | some systemd-dependency within udev? | 19:11 |
| enyc | what causes it to be mounted? | 19:11 |
| enyc | not just in chroot scenario | 19:12 |
| fsmithred | switch-root in init, I think | 19:12 |
| fsmithred | at boot, that is | 19:12 |
| fsmithred | I'm not sure if that's the error I was getting when the resume file in initrd had a non-existent uuid in it | 19:13 |
| enyc | in my case, not a uuid, but an existant /dev/mapper/[crypted-device-name] | 19:13 |
| fsmithred | bbiab. | 19:29 |
| fsmithred | enyc, I googled the error message and I'm reading bug reports for lvm2. It seems that the problem gets fixed in one version and returns in the next. | 21:03 |
| enyc | fsmithred: hrrmph! | 21:16 |
| enyc | fsmithred: might this warrant a version-bump/change in beowulf before release? | 21:16 |
| fsmithred | would help to know what the actual cause and fix are. | 21:20 |
| fsmithred | maybe a backport | 21:20 |
| fsmithred | the version in ceres might be OK | 21:20 |
| fsmithred | well, I thought I'd try a quick backport, but the build-deps include systemd. | 21:24 |
| enyc | fsmithred: which version? i build it on debian box and can try it out | 21:42 |
| enyc | fsmithred: (can try it out on beowulf machine that gives the fault often) | 21:42 |
| fsmithred | enyc: lvm2=2.03.02-3 | 21:44 |
| fsmithred | in ceres. I guess build for buster (=beowulf) | 21:45 |
| enyc | fsmithred: on the case ... | 21:45 |
| fsmithred | cool, thanks. | 21:45 |
| enyc | uerm, buster already has 2.03.02-3 | 21:47 |
| enyc | as does beowulf | 21:48 |
| fsmithred | let me check again | 21:48 |
| enyc | and bullseye[ceres]/sid[unstable] is the same, no newer | 21:48 |
| fsmithred | oops. You're right. I didn't see that. | 21:48 |
| fsmithred | so that's the version you have? | 21:49 |
| enyc | yes, on beowulf | 21:49 |
| enyc | ii lvm2 2.03.02-3 amd64 Linux Logical Volume Manager | 21:49 |
| enyc | wasn't installed on buster but installed and is the same ver | 21:49 |
| fsmithred | ok, someone suggested adding rootdelay=5 to boot command | 21:49 |
| fsmithred | and someone else added sleep 5 to the udev init script | 21:50 |
| enyc | o argh what a mess ;p | 21:50 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I think quality control has gone down over the years | 21:51 |
| enyc | i still wonder, if some interaction means that systemd users "don't experience the problem" | 21:51 |
| fsmithred | according to bug reports I've seen, the problem exists with systemd, too. | 21:52 |
| enyc | ok | 21:52 |
| fsmithred | enyc, try the rootdelay. Since it doesn't happen every time, it could be due to different spin-up times. | 22:23 |
| fsmithred | (assuming your disks spin) | 22:24 |
| enyc | fsmithred: they do but this happens on reboot without respin | 22:26 |
| enyc | and not on every boot | 22:26 |
| enyc | (re-) | 22:26 |
| fsmithred | shit | 22:28 |
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