| plasma41 | For testing the beta I have two nearly identical computers side-by-side. On one I'm installing from a beta ISO and on the other I'm installing from the equivalent Buster 10.3 ISO. | 04:13 |
|---|---|---|
| agris | OpenRC init is just plain unreliable in ASCII | 04:16 |
| agris | I tried fixing it and writing some replacement openrc-run scripts to replace the sysv-compay and putting them in /usr/local/etc/init.d/bin but the documentation is not correct and scripts in there do not override /etc/init.d | 04:17 |
| agris | or even parse at all, when the /etc/init.d script is removed | 04:17 |
| plasma41 | agris: OpenRC on ASCII only functions as the service manager; it still relies on sysvinit for init. | 04:17 |
| agris | plasma41, is that also the case for beowulf? | 04:17 |
| agris | I wouldn't mind writing openrc-run scripts by hand and publishing them for use in Devuan | 04:18 |
| plasma41 | AFAIK, currently yes. | 04:19 |
| agris | but I need to know who to even talk to about doing that | 04:19 |
| agris | because collaboration would be needed | 04:19 |
| agris | like if patching openrc to use a different directory | 04:19 |
| agris | and then where to put the scripts | 04:19 |
| agris | I asked around on the mailing lists but nobody seems to know there | 04:20 |
| plasma41 | agris: If you can provide the work to make openrc-init work, I don't think anyone would be against adding it in. It's just no one has done that yet. | 04:20 |
| agris | it's not just about making it work | 04:20 |
| agris | it's about putting in place the....patches? to have a place to make it work | 04:20 |
| plasma41 | agris: I would recommend talking to LeePen. | 04:21 |
| agris | the way Devuan does OpenRC and the way all the other operating systems to OpenRC is very different and it's bizzare to me | 04:21 |
| agris | what time zone is LeePen ? | 04:21 |
| plasma41 | Somewhere in Europe, so he's probably asleep. | 04:22 |
| agris | email address? | 04:22 |
| plasma41 | pm'd | 04:24 |
| plasma41 | Being able to use OpenRC w/o sysvinit would definitely be a welcome addition to Devuan. | 04:25 |
| plasma41 | If that's something you could help contribute to, it would be much appreciated. | 04:26 |
| plasma41 | ping rrq | 04:54 |
| plasma41 | rrq: On a non-Expert install, Debian 10.3 netinst asks about popcon just before displaying tasksel options whereas Beowulf beta netinst skips the popcon question and goes straight to the tasksel step. | 04:57 |
| rrq | well, the popcon dialog is part of installing popcon (not of the installer) | 04:59 |
| rrq | would be popularity-contest=1.67+devuan1 | 05:02 |
| plasma41 | rrq: In the installer when assigning the hostname, Debian and Devuan suggested the hostnames 'debian' and 'devuan' respectively. I pressed enter on both computers to accept these defaults. However, while the Debian system correctly ends up with a hostname of 'debian', the Devuan system ends up with a hostname of '(none)'. | 05:08 |
| plasma41 | Interesting. Running the hostname command on Debian outputs 'debian' as expected. Running the hostname command on Devuan outputs '-bash: hostname: command not found'. | 05:11 |
| rrq | ah.. that'd be one of those "undocumented udeb dependencies" | 05:12 |
| plasma41 | Now backspace isn't working on the Devuan system. O_o | 05:14 |
| mason | plasma41: I know a good exorcist if you need a referral. | 05:14 |
| plasma41 | lol | 05:14 |
| rrq | "Now" ? | 05:15 |
| plasma41 | I can't use backspace. This is maddening. | 05:18 |
| onefang | Left arrow and delete? | 05:19 |
| plasma41 | onefang: No such luck. | 05:19 |
| onefang | You'll need an exorcist AND a shrink. | 05:20 |
| mason | control-h ? | 05:20 |
| rrq | plasma41: in the shell and/or the dialog(s) ? | 05:21 |
| plasma41 | rrq: in the shell | 05:22 |
| plasma41 | post install | 05:22 |
| rrq | ok which shell is it? | 05:22 |
| plasma41 | bash | 05:22 |
| rrq | stty -a ? | 05:23 |
| plasma41 | To question your sanity, simply install the Beowulf beta netinstall w/o a network connection then try to run the most basic of commands. | 05:24 |
| rrq | "netinstall w/o a network connection" is a good starting point :) | 05:24 |
| plasma41 | It should at least be as functional as doing the same with Debian. Currently, it most definitely is not. | 05:25 |
| plasma41 | The manner in which it breaks is hard to succinctly put into words. Please try a networkless netinst yourself and witness the mayhem. | 05:28 |
| plasma41 | '-bash: sudo: command not found' derp | 05:29 |
| rrq | if you want to install without netwoek you'd use "server" | 05:30 |
| rrq | or "desktop" | 05:31 |
| plasma41 | netinst should be the smallest ISO that can be installed offline. Any smaller and you have to start loading udebs over the network. If an offline netinst works in Debian, it should work in Devuan too. | 05:36 |
| rrq | not sure where you got that "rule" from ... netinstall was made for installing over the net | 05:38 |
| rrq | the installer system in itself is on the iso, but the installed system is acquired over the net | 05:40 |
| onefang | Though if your network is down, you'll at least want to be able to use your backspace key. | 05:42 |
| plasma41 | I'd like to connect to the net only after the first reboot. | 05:42 |
| plasma41 | Currently the system you reboot into is broken. | 05:42 |
| rrq | then you need an "offline" installer, yes, not a netinstall | 05:43 |
| plasma41 | My point is that currently the beta is a regression from functionality in Debian. I'm not trying to PITA. I'm just trying to test the system as extensively as I can by going off the beaten path. | 05:46 |
| plasma41 | s/not trying to/not trying to be a/ | 05:47 |
| golinux | If you want to install ofline use cd1 or the DVD | 05:48 |
| golinux | not the netinstall. That's not what it's meant for | 05:48 |
| rrq | maybe we need a clearer/different spec on what "netinstall" is supposed to be... | 05:49 |
| golinux | I think that the description is pretty clear but maybe could be improved. | 05:50 |
| rrq | seems debian has more than "smallest possible iso" for installing with | 05:51 |
| onefang | What plasma41 is getting at is two things. A) it shouldn't fail in different ways that Debian's netinstall does. B) it should fail gracefully. | 05:51 |
| golinux | rrq . . . I have gotten all the install docs on the Install page into the website format | 05:51 |
| onefang | Plasma41 is testing pilot error, it's not failing gracefully. | 05:52 |
| golinux | onefang: Maybe you could take a look too. And anyone else, of course. | 05:52 |
| plasma41 | If I wasn't trying weird, sometimes nonsensical steps, I wouldn't uncover as many bugs and regressions. Testing thoroughly sometimes means intentionally doing the *wrong* thing to see if the system responds correctly. | 05:52 |
| golinux | I'mm off to the tub for a good soak. | 05:52 |
| plasma41 | onefang: Thank you. You said it better than I was. | 05:53 |
| onefang | That's what I'm busy doing right now for some other project, testing pilot error to see what breaks. | 05:53 |
| onefang | Coz sometimes pilot error exposes coder error. B-) | 05:54 |
| golinux | The question for the installer is . . . how important is that type of testing in the grand scheme of things that need to be done for Devuan? | 05:54 |
| plasma41 | While one single test may not be important, running the broadest variety of tests is very important. | 05:56 |
| golinux | rrq has just busted his ass for months. We should be kissing his feet not nitpicking on edge cases. IMO, of course . . . | 05:57 |
| golinux | If an average user runs into that, it's a different story. | 05:57 |
| rrq | well I agree with plasma41 :) though I didn't use that other ISO as benchmark | 05:58 |
| onefang | Says the person that nitpicked the lack of a link to the Devuan source repo for apt-panoptican after I busted my arse for months writing the thing. ;-P | 05:58 |
| mason | Well, all the arse-busting has resulted in a lovely result. | 05:59 |
| golinux | Plasma, maybe try reversing the install on the 2 computers to vheck if it's really is the iso or a hardware quirk | 05:59 |
| plasma41 | I'm not trying to be ungrateful. rrq, you've done a great job getting the installer ISOs built. I'm reporting my findings to help improve the final version, not to throw shade at rrq or the current beta. | 06:00 |
| plasma41 | golinux: I'll do that next | 06:00 |
| golinux | Then do some diffs on the udebs to find what's causing the glitch if it is the iso. | 06:02 |
| golinux | IOW . . . maybe go beyond finding a problem to actually fixing it. ;) | 06:02 |
| plasma41 | lol, in the borked system, bash cant find the eject program. It won't give me back my disc. :-P | 06:02 |
| rrq | I don;t think there's an udeb difference; it's more a question of what the pool contains | 06:02 |
| rrq | the netinstall pool is basically just the firmware | 06:03 |
| golinux | Well then diff that | 06:03 |
| golinux | I've had to use a paper clip more than once to retrieve a disk | 06:05 |
| * golinux is really going for that bath now | 06:05 | |
| rrq | plasma41: is that after reboot, or is it the installer shell? | 06:06 |
| onefang | Modern paperless offices don't have paper clips. Though I do have a SIM card ejection tool that might do the trick. | 06:06 |
| plasma41 | rrq: All the issues I've experienced have been after the reboot. | 06:06 |
| rrq | ok. right. yes, there are no promises about that for netinstall w/o network | 06:07 |
| rrq | it's surprising it boots even | 06:08 |
| rrq | (ah, yes, it had to include some grub stuff for some forgoten reason) | 06:09 |
| rrq | t | 06:09 |
| plasma41 | It's past midnight here, so I'm off to bed. I'll be back tomorrow to continue testing. | 06:23 |
| golinux | rrq: I'm going to add this to the netinstall iso descriptions "Not to be used for offline install" in bold font maybe even caps. Do we need a marquee? | 07:07 |
| golinux | LOL! | 07:07 |
| rrq | maybe just "Inadequate for offline install" :) | 07:08 |
| golinux | Too wimpy. | 07:13 |
| golinux | IMO, of course | 07:14 |
| yeti | netinstall \ net = notinstall | 08:44 |
| fsmithred | s/\\/-/ | 13:33 |
| adam_free2air | Reporting back with PXE booting beowulf, the dists/*/Release files cause error "broken mirror: invalid Suite or Codename in Release file" | 13:35 |
| adam_free2air | TFTP & PXE server target config files here https://pad.dyne.org/code/#/2/code/edit/L4GKiJ1ydsiIZ2ZIk-7yegId/ | 13:37 |
| adam_free2air | Also on pad is solution to full PXE boot by proxying through an Apache redirect config where dists is redirected to http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/dists/ | 13:39 |
| adam_free2air | There is a second issue that is frustrating me on unattended preseeding, where a preseed file fully works under PXE for buster, but devuan still prompts for keymap, domain name, and init system. The preseed file also in the pad above | 13:48 |
| LeePen | adam_free2air: I am pretty sure 'd-i mirror/http/directory string /devuan' should | 14:14 |
| LeePen | be 'd-i mirror/http/directory string /merged' | 14:14 |
| adam_free2air | LeePen: thanks. what is the function of the merged directory? buster preseed default recommends are /debian https://www.debian.org/releases/buster/amd64/apbs04.en.html | 14:20 |
| LeePen | It is where the debian and devuan packages are merged by amprolla. | 14:22 |
| LeePen | It is the only place a complete distribution is available. | 14:23 |
| adam_free2air | ah. not yet familiar with amprolla | 14:23 |
| adam_free2air | i solved it through a stub web proxy to redirect to /merged, because my preseed was auto-generated based on buster settings. | 14:25 |
| adam_free2air | LeePen: thanks. can fix the root scripting cause now! | 14:32 |
| bpmedley | adam_free2air : Just for my understanding, you're saying that Devuan Beowulf has a few prompts remaining given your preseed setup? | 23:50 |
| adam_free2air | bpmedley: yeah. i don't seem to be able to clear for unattended preseeding - tried all sorts of combinations. the file in the pad was just a snapshot. | 23:52 |
| bpmedley | adam_free2air : One sec.. | 23:52 |
| adam_free2air | i see syslog tailed in tty4, but it's not really helpful. | 23:53 |
| bpmedley | adam_free2air : https://gist.github.com/brianmed/42ae7f7f94faa4d63bdccfc0359ede30 <-- This one worked for me with no prompts. | 23:55 |
| adam_free2air | thanks! did this work over PXE, or local? will give it a try! | 23:56 |
| bpmedley | Kudos to rrq for helping me with the preseed options. | 23:56 |
| bpmedley | I have not gotten PXE working. Perhaps you can help me with that? I've only tried in a VM and .ISO. | 23:56 |
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