| onefang | If people want emacs, that should just install it as the main OS and get it over with. Though then they'll have to install a text editor as well. | 06:04 |
|---|---|---|
| onefang | --- Changes for systemd (libnss-myhostname) --- | 06:13 |
| onefang | That was scary. nss stuff only got installed coz one of the big meta packages installed it. I've removed the nss stuff now. | 06:14 |
| onefang | I was installing a lot of the metapackages on my new super desktop. So I have lots of toys. B-) | 06:18 |
| enyc | Hrrm, I'm wondering how devuan is for Chimaera -- are things being well tested/prepared in advance of bullseye release? Wondering what changed Buster->Bullseye that will be new-headaches? | 11:55 |
| enyc | Especially: Are there new Shims needed, new package sets / installer configs (think: elogind, dbus hooks, etc etc...) .... or just incremental libsystemd dependencies and so-on to handle? | 11:55 |
| fsmithred | enyc, chimaera is in pretty good shape. A lot of packages have already been devuanized. People running chimaera or ceres say they have little or no trouble. | 13:11 |
| fsmithred | Latest thing from upstream is to drop sysvinit scripts from packages. | 13:11 |
| fsmithred | And someone created a package for orphaned sysvinit scripts, so they all land in one place and are easy to find. | 13:11 |
| enyc | fsmithred: hrrm I don't think that is a policy, but package maintainers may arbitrarially do so, if I understand it correctly. | 14:05 |
| enyc | fsmithred: MXlinux/AntiX are popular debian-dervis and boot non-systemd similarly (mx can also boot w/ systemd, nondefault) but they doen't patch out systemd-deps in packages to same degree as devuan.... presumably the same work on init-scripts can be used by them too in any case...... | 14:07 |
| fsmithred | the orphan scripts package is in debian | 14:08 |
| enyc | fsmithred: ooo also into bullseye, seemingly | 14:10 |
| fsmithred | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=975075 | 14:14 |
| fsmithred | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=964139#62 | 14:14 |
| bgstack15 | Would people in Devuan be interested in seeing a Devuan-native package of libxfce4ui-nocsd? https://github.com/Xfce-Classic/libxfce4ui-nocsd | 14:17 |
| bgstack15 | Unit193 of Xubuntu fame has packaged it up for his PPA and we could adapt his work for Devuan. | 14:17 |
| fsmithred | how is that different from the existing nocsd packages? | 14:22 |
| bgstack15 | It's specifically for Xfce4 4.16 that started adding some client-side decorations to Xfce4-specific applications. | 14:37 |
| bgstack15 | It may not be necessary, if you use gtk3-nocsd. | 14:37 |
| fsmithred | bgstack15, did you build the package to try it? | 14:42 |
| bgstack15 | I'm working on it at the moment. | 14:43 |
| fsmithred | I just installed the packages from the PPA, but they don't seem to do anything. | 14:54 |
| bgstack15 | Huh. I had stepped away, and also my build apparently is failing. I haven't actually tested libxfce4ui-nocsd yet myself. | 15:13 |
| fsmithred | I didn't investigate to see if I was doing something wrong. I just installed the debs and restarted the desktop. Tested with Settings Manager | 15:17 |
| bgstack15 | my build is failing with | 15:22 |
| bgstack15 | error: Package `libxfce4util-1.0' not found in specified Vala API directories or GObject-Introspection GIR directories | 15:22 |
| bgstack15 | I did a comparison of the salsa d/control for libxfce4ui to the Xubuntu PPA one and the dep names are all the same. | 15:23 |
| JackFrost | fsmithred: It's different from gtk3-nocsd as it reverts the change to XfceTitledDialog, so any application using that will get reverted. If you use greybird, CSDs aren't as noticable in Xfce anyway, but you'll want to ensure you use xfconf-query -c xsettings -p /Gtk/DialogsUseHeader -s false too | 18:08 |
| bgstack15 | Has anybody ever come across this error when trying to compile something that depends on libxfce4util-dev: | 18:19 |
| bgstack15 | /usr/bin/vapigen-0.48 --library libxfce4ui-2 --metadatadir . --girdir /usr/share/gir-1.0 Libxfce4ui-2.0.gir | 18:19 |
| bgstack15 | error: Package `libxfce4util-1.0' not found in specified Vala API directories or GObject-Introspection GIR directories | 18:19 |
| bgstack15 | because this file starts with a capital L: /usr/share/gir-1.0/Libxfce4util-1.0.gir | 18:20 |
| JackFrost | You need gir1.2-libxfce4util-1.0 | 18:23 |
| bgstack15 | yes, it places that file with a capital L. Adding a symlink whose name is libxfce4util-1.0.gir to that Lib file makes my task proceed. | 18:24 |
| bgstack15 | $ dpkg -L libxfce4util-dev | grep gir | 18:24 |
| bgstack15 | /usr/share/gir-1.0/Libxfce4util-1.0.gir | 18:24 |
| JackFrost | What version of libxfce4util-dev and what version of the other package? | 18:26 |
| bgstack15 | libxfce4util-dev:amd64 4.16.0-1 | 18:30 |
| bgstack15 | I am attempting to package up libxfce4ui-nocsd 4.16.0-1 | 18:30 |
| JackFrost | Given those versions, libxfce4ui should build fine.. | 18:34 |
| bgstack15 | Unfortunately it throws those above errors unless I include that symlink. | 18:47 |
| JackFrost | I presume for the latter you got the 'make dist' tarball from github, and not the 'source tarball' or whatever it's called that GitHub generates? | 18:56 |
| JackFrost | If I had a Devuan pbuilder chroot I could test this.. | 18:57 |
| bgstack15 | If you want to try it on Debian Sid proper, that would be close enough. | 19:00 |
| bgstack15 | I used link https://github.com/Xfce-Classic/libxfce4ui-nocsd/releases/download/4.16.0/libxfce4ui-4.16.0.tar.bz2 (the main asset from release 4.16.0) | 19:01 |
| JackFrost | Yeah that passed.. | 19:01 |
| bgstack15 | Ah. For all I know I've borked up something in the debian/ | 19:01 |
| JackFrost | https://unit193.net/source/libxfce4ui-nocsd_4.16.0-1vanir1_amd64.buildinfo - https://unit193.net/source/libxfce4ui-nocsd_4.16.0-1vanir1_amd64.build for unstable buildlog and buildinfo. | 19:05 |
| bgstack15 | Wow, thank you for the .build link. It looks like the build log from Unit193's libxfce4ui-nocsd, and I didn't know how to find such a build log. | 19:07 |
| JackFrost | I just uploaded it. | 19:08 |
| bgstack15 | Weird, my build logs say vapigen... yes. The linked one shows "vapigen... no" from the ./configure-looking step. | 19:16 |
| bgstack15 | Should I remove vapigen from my build node and try it that way? | 19:16 |
| bgstack15 | Maybe the presence of this additional thing is incurring additional actions which fail for some stupid reason? | 19:16 |
| bgstack15 | Huh, "apt-get remove valac" solved the problem. I guess the presence of this tool adds some steps to the build process, which are failing out for some reason for me. | 19:24 |
| bgstack15 | With JackFrost's link to the build log, I discovered the solution! | 19:24 |
| JackFrost | Ah, yeah. So it's trying to build the vala stuff, best to avoid that really. | 19:25 |
| bgstack15 | My build system is not pristine at all. It's probably time to build a new one but it's so comfortable, you know? | 19:29 |
| JackFrost | Though that does indicate that there is someplace missing the fixed casing of the Gir stuff.. | 19:29 |
| JackFrost | But anyway, if you guys have xsettings.xml in somewhere like /etc/xdg/xdg-devuan, you can simply add <property name="DialogsUseHeader" type="bool" value="false"/> under the 'GTK' section and take care of the dialog boxes at least. | 19:40 |
| bgstack15 | Oh, clever! I only knew of setting that per-user with a command. But template files, particularly global ones, are even better. | 19:58 |
| JackFrost | That's how I ship changes myself in my own -settings package, and how Xubuntu does it (/etc/xdg/xdg-xubuntu, the 'xubuntu' is picked up from the session name.) | 20:01 |
| bgstack15 | I have some python scripts that lay down my user's xfce xml files and forcibly terminates xfce. I'm not quite willing to lay down global xfce settings, despite the fact I'm the only real user in my environments. | 20:02 |
| fsmithred | there's an xsettings.xml in desktop-base | 20:03 |
| JackFrost | https://salsa.debian.org/xorg-team/xorg/-/blob/ubuntu/debian/local/Xsession.d/60x11-common_xdg_path Yeah, libxfce4util was patched to load them from desktop-base too. | 20:06 |
| JackFrost | https://sources.debian.org/src/libxfce4util/4.16.0-1/debian/patches/01_add-desktop-base-in-config-dirs.patch/ | 20:06 |
| fsmithred | what does that edit do? | 20:07 |
| JackFrost | DialogsUseHeader? Disables CSDs on dialog boxes, like that in thunar for deletion confirmation. | 20:08 |
| fsmithred | <property name="DialogsUseHeader" type="empty"/> | 20:08 |
| fsmithred | that line is already there | 20:08 |
| fsmithred | should I leave it, remove it or change it? | 20:08 |
| JackFrost | Use 'false' if you'd like to disable them, which if you're considering shipping -nocsd you really do. | 20:10 |
| fsmithred | I don't know if we're shipping nocsd | 20:10 |
| fsmithred | probably not going to be the default | 20:10 |
| fsmithred | that edit didn't change anything | 20:14 |
| JackFrost | If xfconfd is running, it won't. Try the xfconf-query command I pasted above. | 20:15 |
| bgstack15 | we ship gtk3-nocsd. We are not shipping libxfce4ui-nocsd, but I asked earlier today if there is interest in that. | 20:15 |
| fsmithred | still no change after xfconf-query | 20:23 |
| fsmithred | only thing that makes a difference is installing gtk3-nocsd | 20:23 |
| fsmithred | I'm testing with the settings manager | 20:23 |
| JackFrost | You went into thunar and tried to delete a file? Perhaps I should show a screenshot. | 20:25 |
| fsmithred | no, I did not go into thunar | 20:31 |
| fsmithred | I can change my thunar settings to get that question | 20:31 |
| fsmithred | but I haven't seen it in years | 20:31 |
| JackFrost | https://unit193.net/dialognocsd.png - https://unit193.net/dialogwithcsd.png - https://unit193.net/Screenshot_2021-02-08_14-27-34.png - https://unit193.net/Screenshot_2021-02-08_14-27-02.png | 20:31 |
| JackFrost | Shift+Delete tends to bring it up. | 20:32 |
| bgstack15 | Oof, deleting interfaces (if it's in /etc/network) is TIGHT! | 20:33 |
| fsmithred | yeah, ok it works for the thunar popup | 20:37 |
| JackFrost | Try a save dialog. | 20:37 |
| fsmithred | holy shit | 20:37 |
| fsmithred | Doctors without borders good, windows and buttons without borders bad. | 20:37 |
| fsmithred | ok, it makes a difference on the delete popup that gtk3-nocsd does not do | 20:41 |
| JackFrost | https://gitlab.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/-/issues/230 - https://gitlab.xfce.org/xfce/xfce4-settings/-/issues/235 | 20:45 |
| JackFrost | Anyway, just pointing it out, it's up to you guys to decide what you like. | 20:45 |
| fsmithred | yes, please, give us a switch to turn it on/off | 20:46 |
| fsmithred | JackFrost, thanks | 20:46 |
| bgstack15 | I am all in favor of a toggle. That will satisfy everybody! | 20:47 |
| JackFrost | GTK_CSD is much harder to toggle really, and no idea what really adhears to that anyway. | 20:50 |
| bgstack15 | The conversation today is not about GTK3's unfortunate choices. If Xfce has a toggle, that will satisfy us today. | 20:51 |
| bgstack15 | *the royal we | 20:51 |
| fsmithred | yes | 20:53 |
| fsmithred | gtk3-nocsd works well for what it does | 20:53 |
| fsmithred | and it's a Suggests in the WM theme packages | 20:53 |
| golinux | Only a suggests? | 20:56 |
| fsmithred | yes | 20:56 |
| fsmithred | and nooverlayscrollbar is a Recommends | 20:56 |
| JackFrost | ...Can't you just GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0 and be done? | 20:57 |
| fsmithred | no, that didn't work | 20:57 |
| JackFrost | Can you give an example application that uses them, or a few applications? | 20:57 |
| fsmithred | synaptic | 20:58 |
| fsmithred | maybe file manager | 20:58 |
| fsmithred | and maybe every file-selection window | 20:58 |
| fsmithred | I don't remember | 20:58 |
| JackFrost | Huh, I do not see them in synaptic. | 20:59 |
| fsmithred | don't see scrollbars or don't see disappearing scrollbars? | 20:59 |
| JackFrost | Sorry, yes the latter. | 21:00 |
| JackFrost | `unset GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING` and I got 'em back. Anyway, YMMV I gues, but odd indeed. | 21:00 |
| fsmithred | unset GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING | 21:01 |
| fsmithred | unset LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR | 21:01 |
| fsmithred | GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0 | 21:01 |
| fsmithred | LIBOVERLAY_SCROLLBAR=0 | 21:02 |
| fsmithred | wtf? | 21:02 |
| JackFrost | I only have GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0 injected. | 21:02 |
| fsmithred | voice fsmithred | 21:03 |
| JackFrost | (Well, and NO_AT_BRIDGE=1, GDK_CORE_DEVICE_EVENTS=1, GSETTINGS_BACKEND=xfconf, and GTK_CSD=0 but as they aren't related..) | 21:03 |
| JackFrost | fsmithred: You're already voiced. | 21:03 |
| fsmithred | oh, thanks | 21:03 |
| fsmithred | I think the first two are for gnome | 21:04 |
| fsmithred | second two are for not-gnome | 21:04 |
| JackFrost | Yeah, first one is fot at2-spi-bridge, the second...Well it allows me to scroll in applications before having to do an initial scroll event. | 21:05 |
| fsmithred | yeah, we tried GTK_CSD=0 but that didn't work | 21:05 |
| JackFrost | I think lightdm-gtk-greeter-settings, firefox, and maybe some others look for that. | 21:06 |
| JackFrost | `GTK_CSD=1 veracrypt` well that's very interesting, wxwidgets does! | 21:07 |
| JackFrost | Sorry, I should leave you folks in peace now I think.. | 21:07 |
| bgstack15 | I need to review my entire set of things-that-make-my-desktop-sane. | 21:30 |
| bgstack15 | I think I'm missing most of those from this last conversation. | 21:30 |
| fsmithred | so my build on jenkins just failed | 21:30 |
| fsmithred | got the same 'not a treeish' | 21:30 |
| fsmithred | and message about pristine-tar | 21:31 |
| fsmithred | locally, it's in the dir above the git repo. Do I just add the tarball to the repo and push it? | 21:31 |
| bgstack15 | I don't think you are supposed to add tarballs to source control. | 21:34 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I'm adding pristine-tar=false to gbp.conf | 21:34 |
| bgstack15 | did you make sure all the tags and branches were pushed to the devuan/ repo? | 21:34 |
| fsmithred | yeah, tags | 21:50 |
| fsmithred | all the branches are on the server | 21:51 |
| fsmithred | I don't have them all locally | 21:51 |
| fsmithred | can I put my tarball in the pristine-tar branch? | 21:55 |
| fsmithred | there already a tar.gz.delta and tar.gz.id there (with original package name: clearlooks-phenix) | 21:56 |
| JackFrost | Those are generated using xdelta as compared with the upstream branch, so you have a reproducable tarball. It's not meant to contain the actual tarball, or your git repo is going to grow very large very quickly. | 21:58 |
| fsmithred | yeah, I figured it was just a diff of some kind | 22:02 |
| JackFrost | bgstack15: FWIW, I have a snippet in /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ for the more generic options, and one for the more specific ones that's also in /etc/profile.d, but created to ensure it is only run once. | 22:08 |
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