freenode/#devuan/ Saturday, 2018-05-26

gnarfacemsiism: did it go away when you removed it? i was able to remove it.  i wasn't using wifi though.00:22
msiismgnarface: let me try...00:22
gnarfacei think window managers will include it though too, by default00:23
msiismgnarface: openbox surely won't, and most sane window managers shouldn't either.00:24
msiisms/most/all/00:24
msiismgnarface: ok, apt-get purge dbus works. it will also remove 'bluetooth' and 'bluez' and some packages installed as dependncies of those. but that's ok.00:26
gnarfaceah, i wasn't using bluetooth either00:27
msiismwireless should be fine, though00:27
msiismi'll have to try that00:27
gnarfaceeven firefox and thunderbird want dbus present so they can pass data to each other through it00:27
KatolaZffs00:27
gnarfacethey'll work without it of course00:27
gnarfaceSteam won't though00:28
gnarfacethunderbird just doesn't know your default web browser without it, and firefox doesn't know the default mail client for "mailto:" links but i don't even know if it does anything useful other than that00:29
KatolaZand we needed dbus for that?00:29
KatolaZreally?00:30
KatolaZ:\00:30
msiismgnarface: yes, every one of the major desktop suites needs it, to work. it's the de-facto standard ipc for desktops now in linux, afaik.00:30
gnarfaceKatolaZ: you're preaching to the choir there00:30
KatolaZyeah I know00:30
KatolaZGargravarr: :\00:30
KatolaZoops00:30
KatolaZgnarface: :\00:30
fsmithredI made a dbus-free refracta iso a couple weeks ago. I dropped xfce and installed openbox and icewm. Apart from that, I was able to install most of the major apps that I include in the regular refracta isos.00:33
fsmithredstarted with debootstrap and then pinned dbus.00:33
msiismfsmithred: and did they work well together?00:33
fsmithredI assume so00:33
KatolaZwhat should application "do" together?00:34
fsmithredI didn't do a whole lot of testing with it, but I've done it before, and apps work.00:34
KatolaZI am still puzzled at that00:34
fsmithredlol00:34
fsmithredff and t'bird like to know about each other00:34
KatolaZI mean, the way applications communicate is via pipes, right?00:34
msiismKatolaZ: well, as i understand it, dbus provides a way for desktop apps to communicate with each other...00:34
KatolaZyeah msiism I know00:34
KatolaZI just don't understand what kind of information they want to share00:35
KatolaZ:)00:35
RandomDamageComplaining about end-users, no doubt00:35
fsmithredhere are a few things that would not install without dbus: audacious xfburn wicd connman libpam-elogind synaptic gdebi00:35
msiismKatolaZ: i have no idea what these apps want to share, tbh00:36
fsmithredI'm a little sad about audacious, but I installed deadbeef instead00:36
msiismfsmithred: thanks.00:36
fsmithredfirefox-esr installed00:37
RandomDamageIt looks like it's used as a replacement for filesystem pipes and sysv shared memory.00:37
fsmithredoh...00:38
fsmithredmsiism, --no-install-recommends00:38
msiismfsmithred: ok00:38
KatolaZyes RandomDamage00:38
KatolaZbut what would thunderbird and firefox share through dbus?00:38
KatolaZor gnumeric, for isntance, since it keeps complaining about dbus on my laptop....00:39
RandomDamageCalendar information? Web page open requests?00:39
fsmithreddoes it need to be there to interface with authentication?00:39
RandomDamageAlso, just because they are both talking to DBUS doesn't mean they are talking to each other00:39
fsmithredtrue00:39
KatolaZRandomDamage: who are they talking with then?00:39
KatolaZor is like a radio?00:39
fsmithredtransmission seems to talk to the internet a lot00:39
fsmithredbut I think that's just imap00:40
KatolaZfsmithred: but internet traffic does not go through dbus, right?00:40
fsmithredI have no idea00:40
fsmithredno, the traffic doesn't go through it00:40
RandomDamageWell, tbird and ff most likely are talking with each other, since they are part of the same software suite and reasonably have things to say.00:40
KatolaZlike...?00:41
KatolaZno I am serious00:41
KatolaZwhat the hell an MTA should know about a browser?00:41
RandomDamage"FF this is Tbird, please open this web page for the user"00:41
KatolaZo_O00:41
msiismbut that could also be done by simply having the correct command issued without anything alese, right?00:42
KatolaZyeah msiism, but that's so "last century", apparently...00:42
RandomDamageIt could, but doing it through IPC or a pipe is "more efficient".00:43
KatolaZRandomDamage: are you serious?00:43
KatolaZI am pretty sure there is still a way to tell firefox to open a page in a tab00:43
KatolaZfrom the cli00:43
KatolaZ(this was possible for sure in the first versions of FF)00:43
KatolaZthere you go00:44
KatolaZfirefox-esr --new-tab URL00:44
RandomDamageFrom the cli you start ff with a command that tells it to open the page, the page then opens in the running instance of FF00:44
KatolaZyes00:44
KatolaZhow is this less efficient?00:44
RandomDamageHow does the new FF instance tell the existing one to open that page?00:44
KatolaZRandomDamage: ?00:45
KatolaZthere is no new FF instance00:45
msiismKatolaZ: except if you're using "no remote", i think.00:45
msiismbut then it's simply being opened in that new instance.00:45
RandomDamageWhen you issue the cli command, a copy of Firefox opens, uses IPC to tell the existing Firefox process to open that page, then exits.00:46
RandomDamageIt never opens a new window unless, as msiism notes, "No remote" is set.00:46
KatolaZand doing that passing through an external daemon is "more efficient"?00:46
RandomDamageThat part was sarcasm.00:47
KatolaZnope00:47
RandomDamageBut it does use IPC legitimately.00:47
KatolaZI am serious :)00:47
RandomDamageHi Serious, I'm Dad.  I was being sarcastic when I said it was more efficient.00:48
KatolaZgot it RandomDamage :)00:48
KatolaZsorry00:48
KatolaZit's late00:48
KatolaZ;)00:48
RandomDamageheh00:48
KatolaZI really don't understand how we got down this hole00:48
RandomDamagedbus00:48
msiismis there another way to use bluetooth things than going with 'bluetooth' and 'bluez'? since they depend on dbus (just tried to install them after having dbus removed).00:51
msiismi mean, i dn't have any bluetooth devices, but if i had, i'd probably wanna be able to us them.00:52
NewGnuGuyKatolaZ: In the ascii minimal-live00:58
NewGnuGuyoops hit enter too soon00:58
KatolaZNewGnuGuy:01:00
NewGnuGuyKatolaZ: In the ASCII minimal-live RC iso in the home directory for the devuan user there is a file called package_list. The file contain only the byte sequence 0x200a repeated for 1.2 KiB.01:01
KatolaZok NewGnuGuy01:01
KatolaZthat should be removed01:01
KatolaZwill add it to the TODO01:01
KatolaZthanks01:01
NewGnuGuythank you01:02
Guest71713Minere BTC enquanto navega e trabalha  sem deixar o pc lentão. https://getcryptotab.com/718967 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luzqQN3kL4g&t=166s01:52
DocScrutinizer05sorry, this is not really offtopic though it might sound like it was:  is there a possible link between logrotate and systemd that causes processes to get stopped and restarted when logrotate does its thing? Something that got introduced with systemd and wasn't there on initv + logrotate, like processes under systemd monitor reacting differntly to signals or whatever02:29
Xenguya02:32
DocScrutinizer05ohmy https://github.com/rsyslog/rsyslog-pkg-ubuntu/issues/5603:02
gnarfacewell of course they sabotaged rsyslogd, that's the competition!03:34
gnarface(no need to mention that this is obviously a wrong-minded approach to open source)03:35
byzandulagreetings03:58
NewGnuGuybyzandula: hi there04:00
byzandulaapparently my upgrade to ASCII didn't fly so well.. looks like I still have a lot of old packages and now library dependency probs04:05
byzandula=/04:05
byzandulavery odd that it didn't auto-update packages like virsh-daemon and such.. finding if I update the packages manually it fixes things.04:14
NewGnuGuybyzandula: What were you upgrading from?04:15
byzandulaDevuan Jessie04:16
golinuxWhat repo are you using?04:16
byzandulapkgmaster.devuan.org04:17
golinuxOK.  Have a look at this page to make sure you've got everything. https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list04:18
NewGnuGuyCould you post a copy of your /etc/apt/sources.list in a pastebin?04:18
byzandulacertainly04:19
byzandulahttps://pastebin.com/rWcM8kLF04:19
byzandulahad to explicitly upgrade packages like asterisk, virsh-daemon, etc to get them to the ascii version it seems they didn't update on upgrade and were still looking for jessie libraries04:22
byzandulanow I'm stuck on trying to upgrade kernel04:23
byzandulahttps://pastebin.com/yHRrHgyg04:25
byzandulathose are my current woes04:25
NewGnuGuybyzandula: try running `dpkg --configure -a` as root04:28
byzandulano love similar errors04:29
NewGnuGuytry uninstalling udev04:31
byzandulaI think it uninstalled but still getting errors04:35
NewGnuGuy`apt-get remove udev`04:36
byzandulayeah that's what I did04:36
NewGnuGuyWhat does `apt list --installed | grep udev` return?04:37
byzandulaeudev/testing,now 3.2.2-13 amd64 [installed]04:38
byzandulalibeudev1/testing,now 3.2.2-13 amd64 [installed,automatic]04:38
NewGnuGuyping gnu_srs ^^^04:42
NewGnuGuyping gnu_srs1 ^^^04:43
golinuxHe is certainly sleeping now.04:43
NewGnuGuyhmmm :/04:44
byzandulano worries I appreciate the help04:44
byzandulaI'm going to see if I can keep chasing down the dependencies04:45
byzandulaupdate-rc.d: error: insserv rejected the script header04:46
byzandulawonder if that is causing some of the headache04:46
NewGnuGuygolinux: What timezone is gnu_srs in?04:51
golinuxI'm pretty sure CET04:52
byzandulainteresting..04:54
byzandulaapt-file search update-rc.d04:54
byzandulafile-rc: /usr/sbin/update-rc.d04:54
byzandulaif I try to do anything with that package it says it is missing or has been obsoleted04:54
byzandulaapt-get install file-rc04:55
byzandulafor example04:55
byzandulawonder if I should add jessie back in and try to install that package04:55
NewGnuGuybyzandula: On my system, the package responsible for the file /usr/sbin/update-rc.d is init-system-helpers05:00
byzandulainteresting05:02
byzandulathat is installed.. just did a dkpg-reconfigure on it05:04
* furrywolf randomly noses golinux 05:05
NewGnuGuybyzandula: Have you tried running dpkg-reconfigure on eudev? Might be worthy05:05
NewGnuGuyworth a try05:05
NewGnuGuy*05:06
byzandula./usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure: eudev is broken or not fully installed05:06
byzandulagoing to try to remove05:06
byzandulaand re-install05:06
byzandulawhich kernel should I be running? This is all due to trying to upgrade to 405:08
byzandularight now I'm on SMP Debian 3.16.43-2+deb8u505:09
NewGnuGuythe default ascii kernel is 4.905:09
byzandulathat's what I thought05:09
byzandulaand eudev replaces udev?05:10
NewGnuGuyThat's the idea05:10
byzandula*nod*05:10
byzandulahttps://pastebin.com/CwnSB1xt05:11
byzandulaY05:15
byzandulawrong window..sry05:15
NewGnuGuylooks like insserv is interfering with the install. unfortunately I know nothing about insserv05:18
byzandulainteresting05:18
byzandulaI may have found something05:18
byzandulaw00t05:18
NewGnuGuydo tell05:18
byzandulaso even after removal udev init script still resided in /etc/init.d05:19
byzandulaI did a dpkg --purge and it was still there!05:19
byzandulaI removed manually and was able to install eudev05:19
NewGnuGuyThat makes sense. Good find.05:20
byzandulasheesh05:20
byzandulanow to try kernel upgrade...05:20
* NewGnuGuy crosses fingers05:23
byzandulawhat is the kernel package called?05:23
byzandulasorry .. I think I'm getting tired05:23
byzandulanm05:24
byzandulaI found it05:24
NewGnuGuylinux-image-amd6405:24
byzandulaty ty05:24
byzandulasuccess!!!05:25
byzandulathanks for being my sounding board05:25
NewGnuGuy\o/05:26
byzandulathis calls for a scotch05:26
DocScrutinizer05hmmmm    /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: 226: /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: udevadm: not found05:26
golinuxHi furry05:31
DocScrutinizer05let me do wild guessing: in pre-install script it tries to shut down udev (by using udevadm) so it can get uninstalled safely, but since udevadm was already uninstalled, the pre-install bailed out with error and thus didn't manage to remove the old initscript05:33
NewGnuGuyDocScrutinizer05: Sound reasonable to me.05:35
DocScrutinizer05or it's even more trivial that a apt-get remove udev has been done but no purge, and maybe a purge after remove doesn't work anymore05:35
byzandulaLinux home01 4.9.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.88-1+deb9u1 (2018-05-07) x86_64 GNU/Linux05:35
NewGnuGuyKnow how we can fix it so that doesn't happen again?05:35
byzandulathat's a beautiful thing05:35
NewGnuGuybyzandula: nice!05:36
DocScrutinizer05how to fix: no clear idea since I'm not a packager, but I'd prolly try appending a ||: at end of the "udevadm control -e  ||:" or whatever the udevadm invokation in pre-install script05:38
golinuxNewGnuGuy: Has a task for tomorrow.05:44
NewGnuGuy??05:44
golinuxTo report this fix.05:45
golinuxOr is it a bug?05:45
NewGnuGuygnu_srs is the maintainer for eudev05:47
NewGnuGuyI'll make sure he is made aware of the issue.05:48
afdanakWhat's the difference between the cd, netinst, and dvd install images if I'm using a USB?07:43
gnarfacethe cd and dvd images are more designed for people who need to install without a network connection07:44
gnarfacethe netinst package, while capable of completing a booting system without a network connection, doesn't itself contain much more than that07:45
gnarfaceso if you have a supported network device and working connection you can probably get the install started quicker if you download the netinst package07:45
gnarface*image07:46
gnarfacethare aren't any other differences that can't be changed after you've completed the install, as long as you can get a working network connection at some point07:46
mchasardhi08:18
mchasardi need help to be able to open usb keys as user ...under root its ok08:27
mchasardi'm under fluxuan08:27
mchasardbased on devuan08:28
mchasardasccii08:28
aitormchasard: i'll be here this afternoon (12:50 here, in spain)12:45
aitorwhich is your time zone?12:45
aitoryou can use pmount12:46
aitori'm working on another application for that, but it's not finished12:46
aitornow i need to go, see you in a few hours12:47
aslan8649i happened to boot up devuan is see if it has improved any and notice that the update to 'vlc' is broken. what is the time frame of fixing that update?18:30
golinuxaslan8649: We aren't doing anything with vlc so the problem lies elsewhere.18:34
KatolaZaslan8649: what are you talking about?18:36
fsmithredaslan8649, apt-get  -t ascii-security install vlc18:38
fsmithredwhat mirror are you using?18:38
Juestois it normal that the initrd is lacking a fsck?18:39
fsmithredsomeone else had a problem upgrading vlc last week, and it turned out the the mirror he was using wasn't updated. https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=208718:41
fsmithredI gotta go18:41
fsmithredlater18:41
Juestoalternatives to wpacli?20:07
Juestoi would like to scan and connect to a WiFi network via wpa_supplicant20:08
Tom-_Juesto, wicd?20:34
NewGnuGuyJuesto: KatolaZ' setnet.sh script. The packagename is setnet20:53
NewGnuGuyAs with most networking commands, it must be run as root20:54
Juestohm okay20:54
NewGnuGuyThe script must be called using the name "setnet.sh" and not just "setnet"20:56
Juestooh ok20:59
NewGnuGuySpeaking of which, KatolaZ, could you change the name of the setnet script in the setnet package from "setnet.sh" to just "setnet"?20:59
Juestoso that's the way to control wifi without editing wpasupl config right?21:00
NewGnuGuyAll of the other executables in /usr/sbin lack extensions, so it is weird having to remember to use the extension in just this one script21:02
NewGnuGuyjustinsm: That's the idea21:03
NewGnuGuyKatolaZ appears to be afk atm21:04
NewGnuGuyJuesto: That's the idea21:05
NewGnuGuyoops, mention the wrong name21:05
NewGnuGuymentioned*21:06
NewGnuGuyNewGnuGuy: Does that meet your needs?21:10
NewGnuGuy*facepalm*21:10
NewGnuGuyJuesto: Does that meet your needs?21:11
Juestookay, didn't try it yet21:17
Juestowcid != wpa_supplicant, correct?21:20
NewGnuGuyJuesto: correct21:31
NewGnuGuywicd*21:32
Juestoright21:33
NewGnuGuyping gnu_srs gnu_srs121:35
JuestoNewGnuGuy: setnet isn't working properly21:52
NewGnuGuyWhat's it not doing correctly?21:53
Juestodoesn't scan for networks, adds a " " network then it fails to save config21:54
Juestoit uses wpa_cli which isn't working, NewGnuGuy21:55
NewGnuGuyJuesto: Do you have the wpasupplicant package installed?21:55
Juestoyes21:55
Juestowpa_supplicant is running21:55
Juestobut i can't interact with it via wpa_cli21:56
muepI use nmcli on systems where I want to manage wifi connections from command line21:57
Juestomuep, that's NetworkManager21:58
Juestoshould i use wicd?21:58
muepI know it's for managing NM21:59
JuestoI'm on maemo leste21:59
NewGnuGuyping parazyd ^^^22:00
NewGnuGuyJuesto: What does `apt list wpasupplicant` return?22:04
_abc_Hello. It's weekend again, I am a happy user of ascii written by refracta script to hdd, and I'd like to write a howto do this for others? Maybe?22:06
msiismapropos of nothing: spacefm devs have put out a maintenance release in early march (i just noticed yesterday). also, the maintainer of spacefm-ng was on the team for that.22:06
_abc_The new ascii rc, in the /title, is it different from what I downloaded about 2-3 weeks ago? How can I tell what I have?22:07
Juestohow do i configure clock to be compatible with Windows?22:08
_abc_Aha, you need my mini howto22:08
Juestois such hardware clock configuration global by chance?22:08
_abc_msiism: where it that forum message where you put the hwclock thing I wrote?22:08
_abc_Juesto: yes, just a second, I wrote about this, msiism has the link22:08
_abc_msiism: ??22:09
Juestoi did it on fedora but I'm not sure if it carries over22:09
_abc_It does not, there is a bug and a workaround22:09
Juestoah22:09
Juestoit's a per install setting22:09
msiism_abc_: give me a sec to get the link.22:09
_abc_We have to be patient, msiism put my writeup of the thing on a forum and I do not have the link22:09
NewGnuGuyJuesto: https://askubuntu.com/questions/232405/how-do-i-set-my-clock-in-windows-to-utc-localtime22:09
_abc_NewGnuGuy: wrong answer for devuan.22:09
muepwell here https://superuser.com/questions/975717/does-windows-10-support-utc-as-bios-time#97576422:10
golinuxeeeewwwww Ubuntu22:10
_abc_NewGnuGuy: please never link to answers which may be systemd contaminated22:10
_abc_NewGnuGuy: this link is so, yours22:10
msiism_abc_: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=195322:10
_abc_^ that is the link22:10
JuestoI've configured it on fedora correctly22:10
_abc_There are explanations at the bottom22:10
muepif you look at the answer, the instructions have nothing to do with systemd22:10
_abc_Juesto: fedora uses systemd. devuan does not. LAST TIME: NEVER REFERENCE A SYSTEMD RELATED HOWTO WHEN A DEVUAN HOWTO EXISTS FOR THAT ISSUE.22:11
muepit explains how you can stop windows from messing with the clock22:11
Juestough22:11
Juestoalright thanks22:11
_abc_muep: if you look at the forum message msiism linked you will see that this deals with the linux systemd side of things22:11
_abc_muep: windows is not "messing with the clock". It does what it always did, runs it on localtime.22:12
msiism_abc_: please never put systemd in caps in this channel :P22:12
_abc_AGREE22:12
muep_abc_: windows has an option to keep RTC in UTC time22:12
_abc_Note I am running my system as dual boot with windows and I have the clock set up exactly as in the howto in msiism's forum link, and it works perfectly in jessie and ascii22:12
_abc_devuan both of course22:13
NewGnuGuy_abc_: oh please, the instruction offered by my link merely show you how to fix Window's incorrect practice of setting the hwclock to localtime instead of UTC22:13
_abc_muep: yes but it is not standard and every reinstall / restore from media / rescue wipes that setting22:13
_abc_It is not an "incorrect practice"22:13
_abc_Every clock on this planet runs on localtime, excepting for special clocks.22:14
NewGnuGuyThe problem is on the Windows side, not the Devuan side22:14
_abc_The problem is what I said it is.22:14
msiism_abc_: about the howto you would like to write. you could simply put that into the "Documentation" section of the forum.22:14
* msiism runs on utc (sort of)22:14
_abc_msiism: Looks like I and markdown are becoming better friends, something should come out of it22:14
muepimo it is a bad practice with difficult to understand handling for the RTC. at the option of having to change one of the two OSes to non-default handling, I choose to select the one where there is no discontinuity in RTC22:15
msiism_abc_: or, if you have a wiki account, you could put it on the wiki.22:15
msiism_abc_: anyway, a howto would be appreciated.22:15
_abc_muep: Please, everyone and their sisters, 90% of computer users for sure, use localtime on ALL their clocks, watches, microwaves, phones, whatever.22:15
muepI don't read my clock directly from the RTC22:16
koollman_abc_: that's displayed time, not stored time22:16
_abc_Nobody cares what one particular individual does. There is consensus that running local clocks on UTC is confusing.22:16
muepif RTC is local time, how can the OS actually read it right if the system is booted during the last hour of DST?22:16
koollmanthere's a pretty large consensus on unix timestamp, which is not local time :)22:17
muepor first hour of non-DST?22:17
_abc_the linux kernel figures out what the clock does and runs internally on utc22:17
_abc_it is explained exactly in my howto22:17
_abc_and yes dst must die in fire22:17
_abc_they almost voted it out this year, let's wait for another.22:17
muepif the RTC is at 2:30 AM, how does the OS know if that's 30 minutes before the transition from 3 AM to 2 AM or 30 minutes after it?22:18
muepthe other OS could have moved it already22:18
_abc_You should not reboot at critical times without due care.22:18
muepor you can use a setting where the RTC is always consistent and not get a weird corner case22:19
muepand at other times of year, this has absolutely no visible effect to the user22:19
_abc_If you are really worried about exact time, get a gps module for $28 and get exact utc all the time22:19
_abc_It is supported in the kernel22:19
Juestoaka getting a real hwclock22:20
_abc_What you do in your house is your own business, please don't tell 6 billion people what to do, they will NEVER listen.22:20
_abc_Juesto: yes22:20
Juestoanyway where do you tell windows to use utc22:20
_abc_Juesto: the howtos the others linked22:20
Juestooh ok22:20
muepthere were two links to such instructions22:20
_abc_And yes you will live interesting times. The mods foisted into the kernel by systemd are a threat to every aspect of the kernel. The thread linked in my howto (at the bottom of the howto, on debian forums), is worth reading for anyone who does not understand how bad the rot is already.22:28
muepmods foisted into kernel?22:29
_abc_As I wrote here, I identified another package in devuan ascii which refuses to work in a normal way. It is xoscope. It used to be able to use a sound card/mic input. Not anymore. The version shipped with ascii and in devuan ascii is compiled without sound card support since it does not work right under pulseaudio (systemd author related!), so they simply ship it disabled. I had to load alsa, alsa-oss compat22:30
_abc_dev libs, pull xoscope source from debian packages, and configure and build it, and it works as it used to!22:30
_abc_muep: did you read the thread linked in the forum message?22:30
_abc_https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=855203 this thread22:30
_abc_These people simply rip out what they don't like or what gets in the way of their feature-prone bug collection called systemd22:31
_abc_And other related "agile development method" controlled projects, like pulse22:31
_abc_They simply broke the existing hwclock subsystem because someone decreed it will be done by systemd later.22:31
NewGnuGuy"feature-prone bug collection" lol22:32
msiism_abc_: could you maybe provide a normal-working package of xoscope for beowulf?22:33
muepI did not read that fully yet because it is quite long, but the initial impression is that there was just a mistake in how two programs avoid stepping on toes of each other22:33
_abc_Hm? It works fine if compiled after ./configure with alsa drivers and alsa oss compat dev package present22:33
_abc_xoscope msiism ^22:33
_abc_muep: which beowulf?22:34
msiism_abc_: ok, then i got that wrong.22:34
_abc_msiism: yes and they solved it in the "usual" way which is the cause for the need for my howto.22:34
_abc_msiism: you didn't, but the debian maintainers build the packages in the standard system, which is systemd contaminated. This results in improper oss support at xoscope ./configure time22:35
_abc_msiism: another sneaky way to shoot us in the foot. I am sure there are many other affected packages.22:35
_abc_Going to install audacity soon. We'll see.22:35
msiism_abc_: so it works with just alsa?22:35
_abc_And sox22:35
_abc_msiism: yes. The breakage results from ./configure in xoscope not finding proper oss support and compiling without sound card support22:36
_abc_msiism: iow, the binary shipped by debian and that's what you get in devuan is not able to work with oss, it needs recompiling from source22:36
_abc_rephrased #2: to be sure systemd contamination is as low as possible, rebuild all packages from source on a working *devuan* system.22:37
msiism_abc_: ok, so it's not a pulseaudio vs. alsa problem.22:37
_abc_Preferrably with other bug collections like pulseaudio also purged and replaced with things which work22:37
_abc_msiism: yes it is.22:37
_abc_msiism: the bad build was simply built on a standard system with pusleaudio on and alsa off22:38
_abc_the ./configure simply concluded there is no soundcard support and only built for COMEDI support22:40
_abc_Comedi is nice but that is beyond the point.22:40
_abc_I am sort of pissed that nobody writes these things up as they come.22:40
msiism_abc_: ok, so you had to rebuild from the src package to make it work.22:40
msiism_abc_: do you have a wiki account?22:40
_abc_yes, on devuan, after removing pulse and putting in alsa and oss alsa compat22:40
_abc_msiism: no22:40
JuestoNewGnuGuy: wpasupplicant is installed22:40
_abc_I conly come here on weekends when I let off some steam. Heh.22:41
_abc_also wrt refracta installer: it left a huge log file in my $home. Is that normal?22:41
_abc_msiism: eventually I'll get an account since the wiki is important.22:41
_abc_Have other fires to put out though, in real life, very little time for this.22:42
msiism_abc_: ok. well, it would be good if you could put your write-ups on these things either on the forum or into the wiki (in addition or after discussing things here).22:43
_abc_yes, eventually. As I said, I'm becoming better friends with markdown, had a stressfull week and upgraded a laptop in between with Z partitions to move and check etc.22:44
msiism_abc_: eventually, there should be bug reports, if that's in any way possible.22:44
msiism_abc_: ok, i see.22:44
NewGnuGuyJuesto: What does `apt list wpasupplicant` return?22:45
NewGnuGuy_abc_ "feature-prone bug collection". Reminds me of Bluetooth, truly the systemd of wireless protocols22:47
_abc_Oh yes. I tried to get a headset going with devuan after install, not ok.22:48
_abc_Bluetooth is like unix. It has very good friends, who are few, and it's hard to enter the elite circle.22:48
JuestoNewGnuGuy: that it's installed22:49
msiism_abc_: i doubt that's a valid comparison.22:49
_abc_Hey this is like the old joke that it doesn't matter whom you know, what matters is, who knows you.22:50
_abc_I don't find that funny, having been bitten a few times like this.22:50
NewGnuGuy_abc_: The A2DP bluetooth profile in bluez 5 literally requires PulseAudio >:-O22:51
Juesto...22:52
NewGnuGuy_abc_: Bluetooth has no friends. It is a mutant abomination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles22:52
_abc_NewGnuGuy: yes but there are workarounds from third parties22:53
_abc_In alsa I mean22:53
msiismKatolaZ: about the missing translations in d-i. the only thing that is not translated in the standard install now, apart from some items in tasksel (which is ok), is the popcon dialog window content. i guess there are translations for that which could be copied from debian. so, this might be fixed easily.22:53
NewGnuGuyJuesto: There's more in the output of that command than just "wpasupplicant:installed". I want to see the rest, please22:54
_abc_NewGnuGuy: the painful part is, the same headset works on the android phone (linux!)22:56
_abc_I think android does not use pulse not sure.22:56
muepandroid does not use much of the typical GNU/Linux userspace22:56
Juesto NewGnuGuy  wpasupplicant/testing,testing-security,now 2:2.4-1+deb9u1 amd64 [installed]22:56
Juestoyou could have asked for the version straight away if that's what you wanted to know22:57
NewGnuGuyJuesto: thank you22:57
JuestoI'm on maemo leste btw22:58
NewGnuGuyJuesto: I thought maemo leste only targeted arm. It targets amd64 too?22:59
JuestoNewGnuGuy: the VM does, yes22:59
JuestoI'm running it directly on a laptop23:00
JuestoNewGnuGuy: see the images offered :)23:00
NewGnuGuyJuesto: What's the advantage of running maemo leste on a laptop over straight devuan?23:01
Juestonone, just curious23:02
Juestoand my laptop is a 2-in-1 one does have23:02
Juestodoes have touchscreen23:02
Juestoi don't have a device yet I'm interested on the OS ;)23:03
Juesto:p23:04
Juestoi mean it's quite difficult to find one to buy23:04
Juestothere's no wpasupplicant service at all23:05
Juestoi couldn't find23:05
NewGnuGuyAre you using a integrated wireless adapter or an external usb one?23:05
Juestoit's a combo rt3290 wifi+bt NewGnuGuy23:06
Juestoi haven't had luck getting bt to work on linux23:09
msiismi've just installed ascii on a testing machine and now can't get my network to work. i'm on the cli with nothing installed from tasksel. i've already tried getting /etc/network/interfaces right, but had no luck so far.23:09
Juestoand the problem in leste is that wpa_supplicant isn't running nor is a initscript at all23:10
msiismthere's just 'lo' and 'eth0' in there, as far as interfaces go.23:10
msiismand for eth0 it says: allow-hotplug eth0, iface eth0 inet dhcp, iface eth0 inet6 auto (each on a line of its own).23:12
JuestoMaybe you missed a driver23:12
NewGnuGuyJuesto: According to https://h-node.org/wifi/view/en/1370/Ralink-corp--RT3290-Wireless-802-11n-1T-1R-PCIe/ that wireless adapter doesn't work with free software23:12
Juestooh well23:13
msiismok, justrelized i do not have dhcp-client installed.23:13
JuestoNewGnuGuy: ... i don't really care whatever its foss or not really23:13
Juestoi have a problem with wpa_supplicant23:14
Juestothe card is detected23:14
NewGnuGuyIs it detected by `ip addr`?23:15
Juestothe interface exists, NewGnuGuy23:15
NewGnuGuyThat's not what I asked. Is it detected by `ip addr`?23:16
Juesto-_-23:17
JuestoIs it really necessary?23:17
NewGnuGuyyes, it really is23:17
muepat the very least it should be in ip link23:17
NewGnuGuy^23:18
JuestoNewGnuGuy: the interface itself is available23:18
Juestoit's interface is down because no wifi connected23:19
Juestoand again, the issue is with wpa_supplicant23:19
Juestonot the hardware23:19
NewGnuGuyif the hardware requires non-free firmware to support encryption (which is true of some controllers) it could be the cause of issues with wpa_supplicant23:21
JuestoNewGnuGuy: how do i troubleshoot whatever wpa_supplicant is just plain not running or failing23:22
NewGnuGuyis wpa_supplicant or one of its binaries appearing in you process list (viewable with htop or ps) ?23:24
Juestono23:26
JuestoNewGnuGuy: no.23:26
NewGnuGuyWhen you try to run it, does it output any error? If so, could you post that on a pastebin?23:30
JuestoNewGnuGuy: wlan doesn't show up in ifconfig23:36
Juestowlan0*23:36
NewGnuGuyBut it does in `ip link`?23:36
Juestothe flags given for wlan0 is 409823:37
Juestowhy it's detecting it as Ethernet?23:37
Juestoits driver is rt2800pci NewGnuGuy23:37
JuestoI'm installing the nonfree firmware package23:39
Juesto /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf doesn't exist also23:40
Juestodidn't exist23:40
_abc_wlan shows up only in ifconfig -a if it's not up normally23:44
Juestoyeah it shows up in that case23:45
KatolaZJuesto: it would be /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf23:48
Juestoah23:51
Juestonot present either, KatolaZ23:51
KatolaZJuesto: what is the problem exactly?23:51
KatolaZ(sorry haven't read the backlog :( )23:51
JuestoKatolaZ: wpa_supplicant isn't working23:54
Juestoand thus anything trying to use it is failing23:54
KatolaZJuesto: define "not working", please23:54
KatolaZJuesto: I assume you know how to use wpa_supplicant from the command line23:55
KatolaZstop me if this is not the case23:55
Juestofixed, wpasupplicant is up, NewGnuGuy23:57
KatolaZcool Juesto :)23:57
Juestobut it's not running automatically KatolaZ23:57
KatolaZwhy should it?23:57
Juestoi don't know, I'm on maemo leste23:58
Juestothere's no initscript for wpa supplicant from what I've seen23:58
KatolaZyou don't need one23:59
KatolaZ:)23:59
KatolaZif you want wpa_supplicant to be run automatically23:59
KatolaZyou should add23:59
KatolaZwpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf23:59
KatolaZto your /etc/network/interfaces23:59

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