| darkworld | btw stupid question is TeX Live easy to install | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| darkworld | Its the only HUEG package I desperately need | 00:00 |
| gnarface | i think it's a bunch of separate packages | 00:00 |
| gnarface | but i don't think it's hard to install | 00:00 |
| gnarface | i always end up with it eventually as a dependency of something or another but never used it | 00:01 |
| darkworld | I draft lots of professional documents and using Markup languages is practically cheating because my stuff is always better than my peers | 00:01 |
| KatolaZ | darkworld: texlive works fine in ascii | 00:02 |
| darkworld | btw I have a graphics tablet is there any specific package set I'll need for that | 00:05 |
| gnarface | hmmm. yes, but i don't know them off the top of my head. is it by wacom? | 00:08 |
| darkworld | Its a ugee tablet but iirc its wacom compatible | 00:09 |
| gnarface | i know there are wacom drivers, as well as one or two other brands. | 00:09 |
| darkworld | the main productive things I do with my PC at home is Krita and TeX | 00:09 |
| gnarface | it's important to note that it's got all the same drivers as Debian | 00:10 |
| gnarface | all the same packages too, with a few exceptions | 00:10 |
| darkworld | Yeah I know most are in the kernel but there are some certain tools involved with ym tablet | 00:10 |
| gnarface | darkworld, darkworld_ `apt-cache search wacom` and `apt-cache search tablet` comes back with a bunch of stuff for me. (you can still use packages.debian.org for a mostly-accurate packages search tool if you don't know how to query the devuan repos directly) | 00:16 |
| gnarface | `apt-cache search ugee` doesn't return anything for me, but it wouldn't be unheard of for similar devices to share a driver | 00:18 |
| darkworld | alright im installin | 00:19 |
| darkworld | does the netinstaller install a login manager because I dont like those | 00:32 |
| gnarface | i think it will by default if you pick a window manager/desktop environment. but if you don't check any of those boxes in tasksel you can install piecemeal afterwards without them. | 00:33 |
| gnarface | (or you can just purge whatever it installs) | 00:33 |
| gnarface | you might run into a package snarl there but we can help you through it | 00:34 |
| darkworld | damn the install failed when installing the only packageset | 00:36 |
| darkworld | probably a unetbootin problem | 00:36 |
| darkworld | should I dd? | 00:36 |
| unmy | darkworld, just do dd | 00:37 |
| unmy | during installation set up default utils, uncheck desktop, print and blabla and after you will be in home | 00:38 |
| gnarface | unetbootin doesn't work with the iso-hybrid images, i don't think. you don't need it though. | 00:38 |
| darkworld | so im back at the package select | 00:56 |
| darkworld | so I deselect devuan desktop environment right | 00:56 |
| darkworld | if i want a minimal install | 00:56 |
| darkworld | oh wait I see previous post nvm | 00:57 |
| gnarface | yes, uncheck everything if you want. you probably do still want to leave "standard system utilities" checked though unless you know that you don't want things like `less` | 00:59 |
| darkworld | yeah im installing those | 00:59 |
| darkworld | alright its installed | 01:06 |
| darkworld | 310 packages, I'm impressed | 01:06 |
| darkworld | installing openbox, wish me luck | 01:06 |
| SuicideJunkie | I'm getting a gcc error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so: No such file or directory... but ls shows that there is indeed such a file. | 01:10 |
| SuicideJunkie | Google has hinted that it could be a 64/32 bit thing or some unnamed dependencies, but I'm lost and out of search terms to try. | 01:11 |
| SuicideJunkie | Any advice or keywords? | 01:11 |
| darkworld | oh yeah that remind sme how do i install multilib | 01:12 |
| darkworld | or do i need to | 01:13 |
| darkworld | iirc you did in debian years ago | 01:13 |
| SuicideJunkie | darkworld: multiarch? | 01:13 |
| darkworld | yeah | 01:13 |
| darkworld | i need it for muh gamez | 01:14 |
| SuicideJunkie | dpkg and i386... one sec | 01:15 |
| SuicideJunkie | > dpkg --add-architecture i386 | 01:15 |
| darkworld | I have 32 bit libraries installed already then, yes? | 01:17 |
| SuicideJunkie | That would add the option to get them. | 01:17 |
| darkworld | because I know I need to have those before installing my graphics driver or steam doesnt work | 01:17 |
| SuicideJunkie | You'd still need to actually pull down, say wine32 | 01:17 |
| SuicideJunkie | Depends on the driver I suppose. On mine, I'd just re-run the driver install and it picked it up and added on the 32 bit support. | 01:18 |
| darkworld | so I added the mirror in dpkg, so do I have to go get them now? | 01:18 |
| SuicideJunkie | an apt-get update and then install to your heart's content | 01:19 |
| darkworld | alright, so I can just install my graphics driver now? | 01:20 |
| darkworld | I already have the file on my disk | 01:20 |
| SuicideJunkie | I expect so. No idea which driver you've got tho. | 01:21 |
| darkworld | Nvidia proprietary | 01:22 |
| SuicideJunkie | Ah. It'll probably demand you boot into single user mode first. | 01:23 |
| SuicideJunkie | Also needing the dkms package installed if you haven't already. | 01:23 |
| SuicideJunkie | Between 3 PCs for me bro and dad, and borking things, I've done the install sequence a few times now, and have all the drivers on a separate partition mounted to /backup | 01:25 |
| darkworld | Unable to find a suitable destination to install 32 bit compatibility libraries | 01:26 |
| SuicideJunkie | After install, its init 1, add user to sudo, dpkg i386, aptget install dkms, wine32, linux-headers, and then NVIDIA... | 01:31 |
| SuicideJunkie | the linux-headers would probably be the one you're missing. | 01:31 |
| SuicideJunkie | Get whichever headers match what you're actually running. | 01:31 |
| darkworld | no package called linux-headers, is there a specific modifier im supposed to use for this | 01:33 |
| SuicideJunkie | it'll be linux-headers-#.##.#-# maybe just try linux-headers-amd64 for the meta package. | 01:35 |
| darkworld | alright im installing | 01:35 |
| gnarface | darkworld: for nvidia and steam you probably just need to install libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386 | 01:36 |
| gnarface | (after enabling multiarch of course) | 01:37 |
| gnarface | make sure you're not using the shell script from nvidia.com. that will hose stuff. | 01:37 |
| darkworld | sorry for all the newb questions. I haven't used debian in 5 years | 01:37 |
| darkworld | nor have i ever done a netinstall with it | 01:38 |
| gnarface | no worries, everyone has to start somewhere | 01:38 |
| darkworld | what will happen with that script? its what ive been trying to use | 01:38 |
| darkworld | I always used it on slackware | 01:38 |
| darkworld | I just mounted my home partition, I havent even started x yet | 01:39 |
| darkworld | already disabled noveau | 01:39 |
| SuicideJunkie | I'm actually using it now. Can't see a libgl1-nvidia in synaptic search. | 01:39 |
| gnarface | the script isn't apt/dpkg aware so it'll run rough shod over your fragile multi-arch package dependency tree. the damage won't be apparent at first. it becomes apparent later when you try to upgrade and the whole thing implodes. | 01:39 |
| darkworld | I see | 01:40 |
| SuicideJunkie | Good to know. | 01:40 |
| darkworld | So im installing the libgl1-nvidia thing | 01:40 |
| darkworld | how should I go about isn talling the proprietary driver then? | 01:40 |
| darkworld | is that what Im doing? | 01:40 |
| gnarface | the debian wiki is still accurate on this | 01:41 |
| * Xenguy loves the debian wiki for documentation... | 01:41 | |
| gnarface | basically just `apt-get install nvidia-driver` but then you have to add some extra :i386 stuff for Steam | 01:41 |
| darkworld | I see | 01:41 |
| gnarface | maybe for steam you just need the :i386 version of libgl1-nvidia-glx but some games may require additional stuff | 01:42 |
| gnarface | make sure you use the *steam* package from the repo too. the one from Valve's site is for Ubuntu and it will also break. | 01:42 |
| darkworld | alright I try to install an nvidia-driver and there are unmet dependencies from hell | 01:42 |
| SuicideJunkie | which repo would that be? | 01:42 |
| gnarface | SuicideJunkie: the devuan repos, in this context. | 01:42 |
| gnarface | darkworld: you remembered to run `apt-get update` after that dpkg --add-architecture command, right? | 01:43 |
| darkworld | yeah | 01:43 |
| darkworld | I already installed the nvidia i386 stuff | 01:43 |
| darkworld | im trying to install nvidia-driver now | 01:43 |
| gnarface | it should have come with it.... | 01:43 |
| gnarface | oh | 01:43 |
| SuicideJunkie | I've got the default repos, and the search isn't finding nvidia | 01:43 |
| gnarface | you should have made sure to install the 64-bit versions first | 01:43 |
| darkworld | shit | 01:43 |
| gnarface | SuicideJunkie: you have to add non-free to your sources.list | 01:44 |
| darkworld | can I just uninstall the other one or have I done the damage | 01:44 |
| gnarface | you can uninstall. | 01:44 |
| SuicideJunkie | gnarface: ah, 2 out of 3 were. | 01:44 |
| darkworld | alright doin that | 01:44 |
| darkworld | hopin I can keep this system under 800 packages before isntalling my programs | 01:45 |
| gnarface | it *should* get all the package dependencies for you. i would worry less about the package count than used space. | 01:45 |
| darkworld | unable to correct problems you have borken packages | 01:45 |
| darkworld | I removed the i386 stuff | 01:45 |
| darkworld | trying to isntall nvidia-driver again | 01:45 |
| SuicideJunkie | And even space isn't a big deal. Hard to eat a terabyte even with today's inefficient coding. | 01:45 |
| darkworld | yeah but I have small disks. Getting a new job in a few days hopefully though | 01:46 |
| Xenguy | best of luck | 01:46 |
| SuicideJunkie | Ah, legacy parts? | 01:46 |
| darkworld | I upgraded this thing recently actually | 01:46 |
| darkworld | but ive been using the same disks for years | 01:46 |
| SuicideJunkie | I don't think you can even buy <1TB these days | 01:46 |
| darkworld | I have a AMD 8350 x8 4.0Ghz and a GTX 770. Nothing super fancy but it's the ebst i've had | 01:47 |
| SuicideJunkie | I upgraded my machine when corp bought us all stuff. If they were willing to do that it must be dirt cheap :D | 01:47 |
| darkworld | I mean jeez I used a crappy single core celeron dektop till 2013 | 01:47 |
| darkworld | I know a bunch of people in south america who laugh about crappy specs because theyre all poor | 01:48 |
| darkworld | its a fun topic but you never eally need great specs for gnu/linux | 01:48 |
| Xenguy | exactly | 01:48 |
| darkworld | anyway I have borken packages what do | 01:48 |
| Xenguy | Which is satisfying to me | 01:48 |
| SuicideJunkie | I've got a thinkpad still running. Its pentium chip features MMX! | 01:49 |
| darkworld | I just retired my X200s because it died altough im more of a dektop user | 01:49 |
| Xenguy | Love the TPs | 01:49 |
| darkworld | im tping this to you on a t60p | 01:49 |
| SuicideJunkie | 166Mhz, 48 megs of ram, 2 whole gigs of disk space. | 01:49 |
| gnarface | darkworld: gonna need to see some shell output to know how to help you fix "broken packages" | 01:50 |
| gnarface | darkworld: chances are this is something that nvidia shell script did though | 01:50 |
| Xenguy | darkworld: Huh, that might even be pre- w/e that Intel crap is: ME? | 01:50 |
| SuicideJunkie | it is also nice to know if you want you can just put the installer stick in and start from scratch until you get it right. | 01:50 |
| darkworld | its pre management engine | 01:50 |
| Xenguy | SuicideJunkie: I like to use 'ncdu' for clean-up | 01:50 |
| SuicideJunkie | My TP is running win98se actually. | 01:50 |
| Xenguy | hah | 01:51 |
| darkworld | damn government get out of my pc reee | 01:51 |
| SuicideJunkie | Got a PCMCIA card with USB2 connectors, and shove a 64GB stick in that puppy. | 01:51 |
| darkworld | following packages have unment deps: nvidia-driver: depends: nvidia-driver-libs but it is not going to be installed | 01:51 |
| gnarface | need to see WHY, specifically, darkworld | 01:52 |
| gnarface | paste.debian.net | 01:52 |
| Xenguy | +1 | 01:52 |
| darkworld | im not even in X I dont know how to copy text from a terminal | 01:53 |
| gnarface | oh | 01:53 |
| gnarface | there's a shell program called pastebinit | 01:53 |
| gnarface | you could use that | 01:53 |
| gnarface | (it's in the repos) | 01:53 |
| SuicideJunkie | BTW, any ideas on what to read up on regarding the gcc file not found with the file right there? | 01:54 |
| gnarface | SuicideJunkie: rings a bell... i found it on google. | 01:54 |
| gnarface | SuicideJunkie: you trying to crossbuild something for a different architecture? | 01:54 |
| Xenguy | darkworld: If you use screen or tmux, they can copy/paste at a virtual console | 01:54 |
| SuicideJunkie | I'm trying to build it for my current machine. And I plan to shovel it over to an identical clone box for my brother. | 01:55 |
| SuicideJunkie | Its kodi, so 32bit, on a 64bit box. | 01:56 |
| Xenguy | gnarface: huh, that pastebinit looks interesting | 01:56 |
| gnarface | SuicideJunkie: you might be missing the 32-bit compiler? | 01:57 |
| Xenguy | kodi FTW | 01:57 |
| gnarface | SuicideJunkie: make sure you have gcc-[version]-base:i386 in addition to the amd64 one | 01:58 |
| gnarface | (there will be other stuff but it should get them as dependencies of that or `apt-get build-essential`) | 01:58 |
| SuicideJunkie | I did get through more than half the other bits to compile, but that's a good thing to try. | 01:59 |
| SuicideJunkie | Yeah, that's already in. | 02:00 |
| SuicideJunkie | 4.9 in this case, as well as 4.8 | 02:00 |
| SuicideJunkie | not sure why both | 02:01 |
| SuicideJunkie | Got build-essential already | 02:02 |
| SuicideJunkie | hmm. trying build-essential:i386 does have issues | 02:03 |
| Xenguy | SuicideJunkie: If you are compiling something on de[bv][iu]an, checkinstall is worth a look | 02:03 |
| gnarface | if there's already a version of the package in the repo you could also try: apt-get build-dep [package name] | 02:04 |
| SuicideJunkie | devuan here | 02:04 |
| gnarface | (sometimes that grabs stuff build-essential doesn't) | 02:04 |
| SuicideJunkie | should I be trying to get build-essential:i386, or just the gcc multilib I've already got? | 02:05 |
| gnarface | darkworld: don't agonize too much over this. you screwed up, you used the nvidia shell script. alot of people make that mistake the first time. it's repairable, but honestly it didn't take you that long to install. don't blow 3 hours trying to figure out how to paste from a terminal if it'll only take 30 minutes to reinstall from scratch | 02:05 |
| darkworld | alright screw it | 02:05 |
| darkworld | ill do it | 02:05 |
| SuicideJunkie | darkworld: also, keep an install files / backup partition so you don't have to collect all the bits again. | 02:06 |
| SuicideJunkie | Even make yourself an install.sh file to hammer out the common things with notes and comments for future reference. | 02:06 |
| darkworld | what bits | 02:06 |
| SuicideJunkie | mine has some installers and games and notes as to what partition IDs go where. | 02:07 |
| gnarface | `dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update && apt-get install nvidia-driver && apt-get install libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386` | 02:07 |
| SuicideJunkie | and that ^ but more wordy. | 02:08 |
| darkworld | I just have a seperate home partitiona and put important thigns there | 02:08 |
| SuicideJunkie | (Also currenly slightly wrong, but will be fixed for next time.) | 02:08 |
| gnarface | it might want you to reboot after installing nvidia-driver | 02:09 |
| gnarface | it's a good idea to let it | 02:09 |
| gnarface | it might not actually prompt, it may just warn you | 02:09 |
| gnarface | i forget | 02:09 |
| SuicideJunkie | Video drivers are worth rebooting for | 02:14 |
| darkworld | can't thank yall fellas enough for the help btw | 02:14 |
| darkworld | iv thought about doing this for a long time | 02:15 |
| darkworld | im not one to distro hop | 02:15 |
| darkworld | im really stubborn about it | 02:15 |
| darkworld | I used to say distros were a myth but SystemD ruined everything and I always sound like an old man when I complian about it | 02:15 |
| gnarface | i know the feeling | 02:16 |
| darkworld | Its like Christ I started using GNU/Linux 10 years ago. I was a wee lad and I got a single core desktop that had vista installed on it when it was new (one of those "vista compatible" machines that shouldn thave been running vista) so I googled "free operating system" and installed ubuntu. | 02:17 |
| darkworld | What am i gonna do. use *BSD and go back in time 10 years when most problem swith gnu/linux have been fixed? | 02:17 |
| darkworld | I mean hell, I can play video games on gnulinux now even | 02:18 |
| SuicideJunkie | KSP got 64bit on linux first, and good times were had. | 02:18 |
| darkworld | I used ununtu till Unitiy came out and my PC at the time couldnt run it, and I didnt know how to switch WMs back then so I used debian for a few years and then slack for the past 5 | 02:19 |
| darkworld | should i install the nvidia stuff before or after I install xorg | 02:23 |
| gnarface | it should pull in xorg for you automatically | 02:23 |
| gnarface | if not we'll make sure it does | 02:24 |
| darkworld | alright | 02:24 |
| gnarface | this time, when you get to your first boot, let me know and i'll walk you through it | 02:24 |
| gnarface | as a general rule, always use the native package from the devuan repo, even if there is an alternate source that is more up-to-date | 02:25 |
| gnarface | (there are rules to follow if you need something newer, but none of those involve downloading a 3rd party shell script) | 02:25 |
| gnarface | in most cases you don't actually need something newer | 02:26 |
| gnarface | it's important to distinguish actual functionality from version fetishism | 02:26 |
| darkworld | I used `dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update && apt-get install nvidia-driver && apt-get install libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386` and before even installing any packages it still says theres a problem with nvidia-driver deps | 02:26 |
| gnarface | ok | 02:27 |
| gnarface | show me your sources.list | 02:27 |
| gnarface | just /msg it to me | 02:27 |
| gnarface | or you know what, hang on | 02:27 |
| gnarface | i'll just paste you one to use, stand by | 02:27 |
| darkworld | my sources is just ascii, ascii-security, ascii-updates, ascii-backports | 02:29 |
| golinux | backports can bite you if you're not careful. | 02:30 |
| gnarface | darkworld: use this as the contents of your sources.list, exactly as shown. remove everything else. then run `apt-get update` and let me know if you see any complaints. i just want to eliminate unknowns first: http://paste.debian.net/1028405/ | 02:30 |
| SuicideJunkie | I'm using Jessie, in case that matters. | 02:32 |
| SuicideJunkie | Or wasn't expected | 02:32 |
| SuicideJunkie | Do you think the NVIDIA driver could be causing me the problems? | 02:34 |
| darkworld | i jsut reinstalled | 02:34 |
| darkworld | that was the first command i tried to enter | 02:34 |
| darkworld | ok i changed the file so update? | 02:34 |
| gnarface | yes | 02:35 |
| darkworld | ah crap I wget the plaintext and its jsut a bunch of webcode | 02:35 |
| darkworld | Ill retype it its short | 02:36 |
| gnarface | you could also just use this link instead: http://paste.debian.net/plain/1028405 | 02:36 |
| darkworld | thats what I wget | 02:37 |
| darkworld | didnt work | 02:37 |
| gnarface | look more carefully. this link has "plain" in the path | 02:37 |
| darkworld | yeah I did | 02:38 |
| darkworld | idk what I did | 02:38 |
| darkworld | im halfway done copying it anyway | 02:38 |
| gnarface | you can type it out if you'd rather. i'm being informed it's supposed to be dev.devuan.org now instead of pkgmaster.devuan.org anyway | 02:39 |
| Jjp137 | deb.devuan.org (not dev) but yeah | 02:39 |
| darkworld | good to know | 02:39 |
| gnarface | my bad, yea, deb.devuan.org | 02:40 |
| darkworld | alright updating | 02:41 |
| darkworld | could not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock open (resource tomporarily unavailable) | 02:42 |
| darkworld | alright i restarted my pc and its dl'ing the nvidia driver | 02:44 |
| darkworld | God I hate nvidia | 02:44 |
| darkworld | Im blaming this on nvidia not on devuan | 02:44 |
| darkworld | I just have this card because its the only card i could get that I knew want ruined from those damn cryptominers | 02:45 |
| darkworld | because i bought it form a friend | 02:45 |
| SuicideJunkie | Yeah, video drivers are the worst part of any system, short of printer drivers but those aren't required. | 02:45 |
| darkworld | I just go up to my college for anythign I need to print anyway | 02:45 |
| darkworld | HP makes it easier nowadays iirc but that means owning planned obsolecense products | 02:46 |
| darkworld | oh great it just failed to fetch a ton of stuff | 02:46 |
| darkworld | 404s | 02:46 |
| gnarface | darkworld: that lock file error looks like the type of thing that happens when you try to run apt-get twice at once | 02:47 |
| gnarface | or when you're not root, or something... | 02:47 |
| darkworld | well im past that and when I try to apt get grab the nvidia driver everything goes to hell after a while ebcause 404 | 02:47 |
| darkworld | network hardware works | 02:48 |
| gnarface | ok, now THAT is a problem upstream maybe | 02:48 |
| gnarface | but that link is a round-robin, so in theory ... it should work if you try it again | 02:48 |
| darkworld | also im doing all this as root in the command line | 02:48 |
| darkworld | same error | 02:48 |
| darkworld | 404 for everything | 02:48 |
| gnarface | oh hmmm | 02:49 |
| gnarface | uh, your DNS is working though, right? | 02:49 |
| darkworld | the links are all supposed to be http://deb.devuan.org/merged right? | 02:49 |
| darkworld | yeah i can ping google | 02:49 |
| gnarface | that's right... | 02:49 |
| darkworld | I dont have any crazy network hardware I just have a desktop with a PCI network card | 02:49 |
| gnarface | let me try it here. if it doesn't work right yet you can probably (sigh) switch it back to pkgmaster temporarily ... | 02:49 |
| darkworld | If I can get into X at all tonight Ill call it a success | 02:50 |
| gnarface | don't panic yet, i'm still with you | 02:50 |
| gnarface | what do you get resolving deb.devuan.org? | 02:50 |
| darkworld | you want me to ping it? | 02:51 |
| gnarface | 64 bytes from ftp.rrze.uni-erlangen.de (131.188.12.211) | 02:51 |
| gnarface | getting this here | 02:51 |
| gnarface | no 404 | 02:51 |
| gnarface | (brb, laundry) | 02:51 |
| darkworld | 64 bytes from devuan.aclooland.it (91.102.134.99) | 02:51 |
| darkworld | I dunno if its trying to redirect me to somehting because of my location or what | 02:52 |
| darkworld | Im in Florida, USA | 02:52 |
| djph | why're you hitting an Italian server then? | 02:55 |
| gnarface | the old round-robin never worked for US for me, either | 02:56 |
| gnarface | i'm in California, USA and it's giving me a german mirror | 02:57 |
| gnarface | darkworld: i'm back | 02:57 |
| gnarface | darkworld: still all 404s? | 02:57 |
| filip | hey how can i download all files from mirror in one time?? | 02:58 |
| golinux | The torrent will be available shortly. | 02:58 |
| gnarface | darkworld: see if pkgmaster gives you a better response. the dns issue may be upstream of you but still regional | 02:59 |
| gnarface | your ISPs DNS servers may just be set to update infrequently | 03:00 |
| gnarface | we need this part to work first or NOTHING will work right | 03:00 |
| darkworld | yeah | 03:00 |
| darkworld | let me try packagemaster | 03:01 |
| darkworld | alright tryin to dl now | 03:03 |
| darkworld | well see what happens | 03:03 |
| gnarface | i had some problems with timeouts the other day but usually it was working, just slowly | 03:05 |
| darkworld | alright it installed, rebootan | 03:07 |
| gnarface | groovy | 03:08 |
| gnarface | (i was hoping you'd give me the list of packages it wanted to include though so i could see whether it got xorg for you or not) | 03:08 |
| darkworld | i typed startx and it wasnt there so i assume ill have to isntall xorg | 03:09 |
| darkworld | apt-get install xorg? | 03:09 |
| gnarface | no wait | 03:09 |
| gnarface | see if it's there | 03:09 |
| gnarface | dpkg -l |grep xorg | 03:09 |
| gnarface | you may just be missing the package "xinit" | 03:10 |
| darkworld | it asks to pipe it through less or more | 03:10 |
| darkworld | i forgot how pipe works | 03:10 |
| gnarface | do you not have grep installed? | 03:10 |
| darkworld | good quesiton | 03:10 |
| darkworld | i did a minimal instlal with only base system pkgs | 03:11 |
| gnarface | general form: dpkg -l [package name[ | 03:11 |
| gnarface | er, dpkg -l [package name] | 03:11 |
| darkworld | i did dpkg -l xorg with no packages matching | 03:11 |
| gnarface | it doesn't wildcard by default | 03:11 |
| gnarface | dpkg -l *xorg* | 03:11 |
| darkworld | yeah I have a bunch of them | 03:12 |
| gnarface | ok | 03:12 |
| gnarface | apt-get install xinit | 03:12 |
| gnarface | (startx isn't actually required anymore because the default installs use a graphical login manager) | 03:12 |
| darkworld | ahhhh | 03:12 |
| darkworld | yeah theyre not my thing | 03:13 |
| gnarface | me either, but sometimes i have guests | 03:13 |
| darkworld | my friends all use gnu/linux and my family members/ladyfriends dont need to get into my pc | 03:13 |
| darkworld | i already have to worry about the damn nsa doing that | 03:14 |
| darkworld | ALRIGHT I'm in openbox. Thanks a lot brother (or applicable) ! | 03:15 |
| gnarface | no problem | 03:16 |
| gnarface | do check your xorg log to make sure it's using the nvidia drivers not nouveau | 03:16 |
| gnarface | the 700 series works well enough with nouveau it might not be immediately apparent | 03:16 |
| darkworld | one thing I should ask, why is it that my xorg session is on f1 and not f7? I'm used to them being paralell to each other | 03:16 |
| darkworld | how do I actually see the cli log? | 03:16 |
| gnarface | heh, yea they changed that. it can launch from it's own virtual terminal now | 03:17 |
| darkworld | I always hated systems that did that | 03:17 |
| darkworld | messes with me | 03:17 |
| darkworld | I wouldnt even know how to go about restarting x with a setup like this | 03:17 |
| darkworld | is that a kernel compile option? | 03:18 |
| gnarface | you can still get the console log, there's a trick to it. i forget the exact syntax, but you can still have it launch with a terminal as the controlling process, and have that capture the stdout | 03:18 |
| gnarface | they disabled ctrl+alt+backspace but ctrl+alt+f[N] should still work where alt+f[N] used to | 03:18 |
| gnarface | and you can re-enable ctrl+alt+backspace by disabling some undocumented option in your (now optional!) xorg.conf | 03:19 |
| gnarface | google for "dontzap" or something like that | 03:19 |
| darkworld | this is why I hate programmers (t. computerscience student) | 03:20 |
| gnarface | and if you find that the nouveau driver is preempting the nvidia binary driver, just add 'blacklist nouveau' to a .conf file in /etc/modprobe.d/ | 03:20 |
| gnarface | for a 700 series card, there are some cases where the nouveau driver might actually be preferable | 03:20 |
| darkworld | really? | 03:21 |
| darkworld | Im using a GTX770 | 03:21 |
| gnarface | the primary difference is that nvidia still does their own thing, while nouveau uses mesa like everyone else, so you can benefit from stuff like "wine-gallium-nine" optimizations | 03:21 |
| gnarface | the 700 series is the one they've got reverse-engineered well enough that you can actually benefit from it | 03:22 |
| darkworld | ouch | 03:22 |
| gnarface | for almost everything else though nouveau will break stuff | 03:22 |
| gnarface | since you mentioned Steam, you're better off using the nvidia drivers for now | 03:23 |
| darkworld | yeah the only online games I really play are QuakeWorld TF2 and Fistful of Frags | 03:23 |
| gnarface | well the good thing is that the drivers can be co-installed safely. they don't play nice when loaded concurrently and the one you're not using has to be blacklisted, but you have the option of switching back and forth with just a reboot | 03:24 |
| darkworld | the proprietary one shave worked fine for hte msot part other than some godawful things with xranrd | 03:25 |
| gnarface | heh, yea their half-assed parsing implementation for the config syntax | 03:27 |
| darkworld | I had to map my tablet to HEAD-0 instead of VGA-1 | 03:27 |
| gnarface | nouveau doesn't have those types of problems. aside from the parts they can't reverse-engineer, it's a very well behaved driver these days, for the most part. | 03:28 |
| darkworld | also i moved my pen around the screen so that seems to work. ill report after i test krita | 03:28 |
| gnarface | cool | 03:28 |
| gnarface | oh, another change to xorg that's important to know besides the xorg.conf now being "optional" | 03:28 |
| darkworld | which might I add, despite being a KDE project is one of the best free software projects and I love it | 03:28 |
| gnarface | it's no longer required to run xorg suid root | 03:28 |
| gnarface | so that's no longer the default | 03:29 |
| gnarface | (nvidia drivers change that still though, i think) | 03:29 |
| gnarface | anyway, if xorg isn't running as root, it'll put the log in ~/.local/share/xorg instead of /var/log | 03:29 |
| darkworld | ahh | 03:29 |
| darkworld | xorg is wierd | 03:30 |
| darkworld | but im highly co nvinced wayland is a meme so im indifferent | 03:30 |
| gnarface | yea, they were just discussing this in another channel i was in today. 10 years on and i still haven't seen first-hand proof it works. | 03:31 |
| darkworld | m-muh screen tearing | 03:31 |
| darkworld | or something | 03:31 |
| darkworld | I never relaly noticed it | 03:31 |
| gnarface | in the mean time, the only problem with xorg seems to be everyone's bad attitude | 03:31 |
| darkworld | the problem with xorg is that its a spaghetticode mess from the 1980s | 03:31 |
| darkworld | but so is linux anyway (replace 1980s with early 90s) | 03:32 |
| gnarface | well nvidia seems to still be backing xorg as far as they're willing to | 03:32 |
| gnarface | they don't seem to care if wayland EVER works | 03:32 |
| gnarface | that's sortof their M.O. with linux support though | 03:33 |
| darkworld | but spaghetticode as it is its still nowhere near as bad as the outsourced underpaid indian programmer code microsoft has in windows (poor bastards, if I made that little for my work I wouldnt care very much either) | 03:33 |
| darkworld | at least linus has the "sont blame software developers for bugs" philosophy | 03:34 |
| darkworld | and for that hes a good man | 03:34 |
| darkworld | also do i still have to grab a firefox deb form somewhere? | 03:35 |
| gnarface | no, the whole iceweasel/firefox debacle has passsed by | 03:36 |
| gnarface | and you should have been using iceweasel back then anyway | 03:36 |
| darkworld | theres no package called riefox | 03:36 |
| gnarface | hmmm | 03:36 |
| gnarface | oh, this again | 03:37 |
| gnarface | check for "firefox-esr" instead, is that one there? | 03:37 |
| darkworld | its there | 03:37 |
| darkworld | ill install it | 03:37 |
| gnarface | ok | 03:37 |
| gnarface | should be good enough for most purposes | 03:37 |
| gnarface | ascii doesn't have the latest firefox becuase mozilla started requiring Rust to build it | 03:38 |
| darkworld | i dont spend much time in a web browser anymore anyway | 03:38 |
| darkworld | does it at least have post 57? | 03:38 |
| gnarface | sorry i think it's 52 | 03:38 |
| darkworld | argh | 03:38 |
| darkworld | pre multicore firefox is a joke, it onyl now got usable | 03:38 |
| darkworld | er, they redid the multicore | 03:38 |
| darkworld | and it actually works now | 03:39 |
| gnarface | hang on, it might be in backports | 03:39 |
| filip | do u think that systemd sends any data to google servers?? | 03:39 |
| darkworld | no but it does default to it for network testing | 03:39 |
| darkworld | we would know if it did | 03:39 |
| darkworld | systemd isnt a botnet, its jsut crap | 03:39 |
| gnarface | ugh | 03:39 |
| SuicideJunkie | I like palemoon for a browser myself | 03:39 |
| gnarface | even devuan is using google's DNS by default i think | 03:39 |
| darkworld | although im sure it has tons of backdoors the government can get into since redhat is basically funded by th deprtment of defense | 03:40 |
| gnarface | you gotta watch for that | 03:40 |
| darkworld | but backdoors are only entered on target | 03:40 |
| darkworld | not actively transmitting data | 03:40 |
| filip | shit... it sounds creepy what does it mean that something uses google dns. i hate google and i dont wanna use their services at all costs... | 03:40 |
| darkworld | im not a security nerd but I udnerstand the semantics of it | 03:41 |
| darkworld | I live life by one philosophy: I dont trust the government and I dont trust people who trust the government. I dont complicate it with semantics | 03:41 |
| gnarface | filip: it just means that somewhere on the internet there's a google server with a list of your entire browsing history, that's all | 03:41 |
| darkworld | my computing habits tend ot reflect it to some degree or another | 03:41 |
| filip | and somebody from google may have access to it?? is it all just related to browsing history then?? what about data that i have on my PC?? | 03:42 |
| filip | i mean browsing internet? | 03:42 |
| gnarface | filip: it's just domain names actually | 03:42 |
| gnarface | not a huge risk | 03:43 |
| SuicideJunkie | gotta turn 'foo.com' into 111.222.042.042 somehow | 03:43 |
| gnarface | but i'd still recommend running local DNS for everyone | 03:43 |
| gnarface | it's just faster | 03:43 |
| filip | so should i feel safe about using fedora 28 or is google spying me at the moment lol | 03:43 |
| filip | yeah i dont wanna use google dns... | 03:43 |
| gnarface | i started running local DNS a long time ago, actually, for reliability and speed, long before the security concerns were more than hypothetical | 03:44 |
| filip | iv installed fedora 2 days ago and now i read that it sends stuff to google servers omg | 03:44 |
| darkworld | thanks pottering | 03:44 |
| gnarface | darkworld: so you're up and running solid now, it seems? | 03:45 |
| darkworld | yeah | 03:45 |
| gnarface | cool, good to hear it | 03:46 |
| SuicideJunkie | so, checkinstall appears to be complaining about a package version with CRLFs in it. Pretty sure that's not proper. | 03:46 |
| filip | does devuan has similar installation mode to other distros like ubuntu or fedora or it requires using terminal?? | 03:46 |
| darkworld | there s agraphical installer and an ncurses one | 03:46 |
| darkworld | its ez either way | 03:47 |
| gnarface | filip: it's basically identical to Debian's | 03:47 |
| gnarface | i mean, functionally, anyway | 03:47 |
| filip | so if i burn iso into my dvd and then just boot it i shouldnt have any problem with installation?? | 03:47 |
| gnarface | correct, you shouldn't. that doesn't mean you won't, but most issues are self-inflicted | 03:48 |
| filip | yeah sure | 03:48 |
| gnarface | you might run into some issue with dns records in your region being wrong for one reason or another | 03:49 |
| filip | well is this systemd actual a real issue?? Does it mean somebody may spy on me when i use systemd OS? I don't really like some tracker apps that i can see in fedora processes... | 03:49 |
| darkworld | SystemD is bad from a design philosophy | 03:49 |
| darkworld | it turned gnulinux into windows | 03:50 |
| gnarface | yea, i'll go you one further - systemd is maintained and designed by bad people. | 03:50 |
| darkworld | because windows developers arent intelligent enough to use a *nix style system | 03:50 |
| gnarface | it's not that they're not intelligent enough. it's that they're too damned lazy to try hard. | 03:50 |
| gnarface | so they've erected a whole corporate culture toxic to it. | 03:50 |
| filip | sounds really bad to me... i was happy few days ago that i can finally ditch windows for linux | 03:51 |
| gnarface | and since they can't win with competence, they have to win with STEALING | 03:51 |
| darkworld | systemd users condscendingly tell me: "so youre telling me you want your whole system to be duct taped together with scripts" | 03:51 |
| darkworld | and to which I reply "yes, actually" | 03:51 |
| filip | and today i read stuff about systemd thing and im like omg so now it was time to get from windows to linux and now it seems like theres time to get from linuxos to non systemd linux... | 03:51 |
| SuicideJunkie | Ok, so, checkinstall tried, and got the same results, IE: gcc: error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so: No such file or directory | 03:51 |
| filip | download libraries | 03:52 |
| SuicideJunkie | filip: I'm here because of the systemd thing. | 03:52 |
| gnarface | SuicideJunkie: that should be a symlink, is it? | 03:52 |
| filip | i am as well i just discovered it today lol | 03:52 |
| SuicideJunkie | Yeah | 03:52 |
| gnarface | SuicideJunkie: is it valid? is it pointing to anything that exists? | 03:52 |
| filip | how did you download devuan then?? can you help me how can i download files from mirrors all at once | 03:53 |
| gnarface | SuicideJunkie: drivers tend to fight over where that symlink points. it's possible it got left orphaned if something went wrong during a change or upgrade | 03:53 |
| Xenguy | Personally, I just don't want systemd to swallow large portions of my OS in a very windozy kind of way | 03:53 |
| filip | well i don't like some unfamiliar processes running on my OS | 03:54 |
| SuicideJunkie | Er... I was about to say yeah I'd checked earlier, but not so much now. | 03:54 |
| Xenguy | There's bad mojo all over it, but many people don't have the eyes to see | 03:54 |
| darkworld | I dont use windows for a reason and im not goign to let redhat rule the world | 03:54 |
| Xenguy | And yes, I agree that this is largely about design differences | 03:55 |
| Xenguy | For sure | 03:55 |
| filip | is there any possibility to download more files from mirrors than one at once?? | 03:55 |
| gnarface | it is, but i think that systemd is a trojan horse TOO | 03:55 |
| Xenguy | corporate takeover? | 03:56 |
| gnarface | filip: what are you trying to accomplish? you've asked this question like you're trying to set up a mirror, but you don't seem to need a mirror | 03:56 |
| Xenguy | attack surface? | 03:56 |
| filip | okay so should i download devuan_ascii_2.0.0_i386_dvd-1.iso then | 03:56 |
| filip | ohh my friend who uses amiga was trying to download some modules from aminet | 03:56 |
| SuicideJunkie | You think the NV driver script could have done it? | 03:56 |
| darkworld | oh my god do amigaos users still exist? | 03:56 |
| filip | but there are so many of them he asked me how he can download all of em at once instead of clicking save on each module | 03:56 |
| gnarface | filip: yes, if you want a complete set of files for an offline install, go with the CD or DVD sets | 03:57 |
| filip | well yeah he's really obsessed with amiga 1200 | 03:57 |
| filip | hes got real one | 03:57 |
| darkworld | i thought they were just a bunch of furries that stayed away from the clearnet | 03:57 |
| gnarface | SuicideJunkie: it has for me before, when it has failed halfway through for wahtever reason | 03:57 |
| Xenguy | go for 64-bit, if you can, filip | 03:57 |
| filip | oh ok so its amd64.dvd-1.iso | 03:58 |
| * Xenguy prepares an awesome grilled cheese sandwich... Will pop in and out ... | 03:58 | |
| filip | im quite worried about this google dns thing oh my god. why it takes so much effort to not be controlled while using internet nowadays :/ | 03:59 |
| darkworld | because the government wants to know everything about you | 03:59 |
| gnarface | heh, don't get me started... | 03:59 |
| darkworld | and so do thousands of multinationals | 03:59 |
| filip | i think its not just government but big companies like google | 03:59 |
| darkworld | they work together of course | 03:59 |
| filip | government is like government but companies like google drive me insane | 04:00 |
| filip | and youtube | 04:00 |
| filip | i wanna escape from it | 04:00 |
| darkworld | some people like companies and hate government, other people like government and hate companies. I hate companies and governmetn | 04:00 |
| filip | but not sure if i install devuan ill be able to get off google thing because im not really an it person but its like if devuan uses google dns it means that ill still use their services even on devuan, right? | 04:01 |
| gnarface | the way the internet was designed, everyone was supposed to be running local email, dns, file sharing, etc. nothing was supposed to be centralized like it is. the problem comes down to two things 1) companies willing to lie 2) idiots willing to believe them | 04:01 |
| filip | yeah i wanna run my local e-mail, some guy told me about writing local e-mail and messanger under safenetwork.org using java | 04:02 |
| SuicideJunkie | Ok! So, the leading problem was that I was blind, and I couldn't see the break. | 04:02 |
| gnarface | filip: it's a very easy thing to change the DNS servers in use, however you really only have the choice between setting up your own or using your ISP's, or using some random 3rd party one like google's... | 04:02 |
| filip | oh okay so when i change my OS into devuan that has default DNS server google i am able to change it for different one without any problems | 04:03 |
| gnarface | yes | 04:03 |
| filip | okay then | 04:03 |
| filip | thanks | 04:03 |
| gnarface | no problem | 04:03 |
| filip | sorry im really trying to escape from corporates | 04:04 |
| gnarface | completely understandable | 04:04 |
| SuicideJunkie | Funfun. Somebody has undeclared constants in here, but progress is being made :) Thanks! | 04:04 |
| gnarface | glad to help | 04:05 |
| gnarface | i may wander off without warning, but i do read my scrollback | 04:05 |
| SuicideJunkie | Sometimes it just requires a fresh eye/brain | 04:05 |
| filip | i just wonder if installing devuan is like installing arch linux u need commands | 04:05 |
| filip | so if im gonna boot my laptop tommorow with devuan dvd then ill be able to delete fedora and then it will install devuan on my hdd, right?? | 04:06 |
| darkworld | installing devuan is straightforward | 04:06 |
| filip | okay, great then... | 04:06 |
| darkworld | and for the love of god dont use arch linux | 04:06 |
| filip | oh damn ;D | 04:07 |
| SuicideJunkie | Go through the graphical installer, and click stuff like US keyboard and local mirror. Next next next done. | 04:07 |
| filip | well i can't even install it ;D | 04:07 |
| gnarface | filip: there is a devuan live image you can test with so you can try it out without reinstalling first... | 04:07 |
| filip | yeah the iso is just downloading. okay nice... well, im excited | 04:07 |
| filip | but i have to buy new dvd so ill do the installation tommorow cuz its late now... | 04:07 |
| SuicideJunkie | Got a USB stick? | 04:07 |
| filip | yeah i do actually 8gb | 04:08 |
| SuicideJunkie | Just make that a boot stick instead of burning disks? | 04:08 |
| SuicideJunkie | dd the iso onto the stick and done. | 04:08 |
| filip | well could do but i prefer to burn it on dvd and then save it to the box as devuan installation | 04:08 |
| gnarface | hmmm. the live image and the netinstalls work from USB. i don't know for sure that the DVD and CD images do as well, but i think they might... | 04:08 |
| filip | okay ill just try both then :D | 04:09 |
| filip | i gues | 04:09 |
| SuicideJunkie | I keep the ISOs, and put whatever on the stick on demand. | 04:09 |
| filip | or just usb anyways, thanks for information, hopefully ill be here from devuan tommorow | 04:09 |
| filip | and anyways why arch linux is bad in your opinion?? | 04:10 |
| SuicideJunkie | Just remember to set the block size up in dd so it goes fast. | 04:10 |
| filip | well ok ;D | 04:10 |
| darkworld | bleeding edge philosophy is horrible | 04:12 |
| filip | actually i might try to do it now | 04:12 |
| darkworld | it makes your system a constant maintainence project | 04:12 |
| SuicideJunkie | I accidentally started copying a 3tb drive with the default 512 bytes at a time, and then gave up on it 36 hours later | 04:12 |
| Xenguy | So what's an optimum example | 04:12 |
| Xenguy | ? | 04:12 |
| darkworld | you have to update often, each update can break something, if you go too long without updating you can break a lot of things, and pacman is the worst package manager of all time | 04:13 |
| SuicideJunkie | Not sure, probably related to device stats and memory, but at least many megs per chunk works much better. | 04:13 |
| filip | yeah i get it with bleeding edge thing you know, sometimes i use a software and then it updates and i was like what was wrong with it that it needed update lol | 04:13 |
| gnarface | Xenguy: some newer drives are faster at 4k | 04:14 |
| Xenguy | darkworld: they do have an awesome wiki however | 04:14 |
| darkworld | ^ | 04:14 |
| darkworld | and a horrible community | 04:14 |
| Xenguy | OK, thanks gnarface darkworld | 04:14 |
| SuicideJunkie | I don't understand why it is so hard for developers to just not screw with things that are fine. | 04:15 |
| darkworld | comprised entirely of 4chan users | 04:15 |
| Xenguy | darkworld: Oh, I had no idea | 04:15 |
| gnarface | SuicideJunkie: it's easy to figure out once you realize who is selling something | 04:15 |
| darkworld | hilriously, 4chan's distro CloverOS is actually a decent system, who would have thought | 04:15 |
| gnarface | RedHat is selling a service. obviously they have to break everything first for it to be relevant... | 04:15 |
| darkworld | its just precomipled gentoo | 04:16 |
| filip | i wonder if i used to burn ubuntu iso few years ago on this pendrive itll not have any problems with booting devuan | 04:16 |
| filip | i mean if i did burn ubuntu iso on this pendrive | 04:16 |
| Xenguy | dd ? | 04:16 |
| filip | if that would boot devuan | 04:17 |
| darkworld | unetbootin didnt work for me use dd | 04:17 |
| filip | whats dd? | 04:17 |
| Xenguy | If you dd a new image, it will be new | 04:17 |
| Xenguy | filip: dd is an image copying/cloning command-line utility | 04:17 |
| Xenguy | as in, filesystem image | 04:18 |
| SuicideJunkie | Its a bit shovel basically :) Dump this to there. | 04:18 |
| Xenguy | You can use dd to copy ISO's and such | 04:18 |
| filip | dd if=/path/to/your/isofile of=/your/usb/disk | 04:18 |
| targz | Hi, why not Package mate-power-manager-common bet yes package mate-power-manager-common in ASCII? | 04:18 |
| filip | is that right command? | 04:18 |
| targz | sorry, not mate-power-manager bet yes mate-power-manager-common | 04:19 |
| SuicideJunkie | And vice versa to make a .iso if you like. | 04:19 |
| Xenguy | filip: pretty much | 04:19 |
| Xenguy | But be careful, cos dd is unforgiving | 04:19 |
| SuicideJunkie | add in bs=32M for decent sized chunks | 04:19 |
| Xenguy | ^^ | 04:19 |
| SuicideJunkie | I always do an ls /dev, then plug in the USB stick, then ls /dev again | 04:20 |
| SuicideJunkie | That way I know for sure which is the USB stick and I don't stomp my HDD. | 04:20 |
| filip | goddamnit i may just get dvd tommorow and burn it onto it | 04:20 |
| filip | it will be easier | 04:20 |
| filip | im tired anyways its 3:20am | 04:20 |
| gnarface | writing to USB is gonna be slow no matter what you do | 04:20 |
| SuicideJunkie | Avoid operating heavy commands while tired, yes. | 04:21 |
| filip | yeah definitely ;D | 04:21 |
| Xenguy | hehe | 04:21 |
| Xenguy | sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeep | 04:21 |
| filip | well okay, see you later then and have a nice day | 04:21 |
| Xenguy | nn | 04:21 |
| SuicideJunkie | Back in the day I once copied over my project backup with a very carefully written command at 3am | 04:21 |
| Xenguy | oops | 04:21 |
| gnarface | targz: someone may have built it | 04:21 |
| SuicideJunkie | Hit enter, then immediately stabbed the eject button on the floppy but it was too late. | 04:22 |
| SuicideJunkie | I had two backups, and could have set the write protect tab. Learning through pain. | 04:23 |
| fsmithred | targz, what package are you looking for? | 04:23 |
| * Xenguy remembers a 'rm -rf' story from yesteryear... | 04:23 | |
| targz | fsmithred: mate-power-manager | 04:24 |
| gnarface | oh, i see now it's banned | 04:24 |
| gnarface | for hard systemd dependency :-/ | 04:24 |
| fsmithred | it's in ascii and jessie | 04:24 |
| gnarface | fsmithred: mate-power-manager-common != mate-power-manager | 04:25 |
| targz | yes, systemd is evil! :( | 04:25 |
| fsmithred | apt-cache policy mate-power-manager | 04:25 |
| fsmithred | 1.16.2-1+deb9u1 0 | 04:25 |
| fsmithred | 100 http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ ascii/main amd64 Packages | 04:25 |
| fsmithred | however... | 04:25 |
| fsmithred | now I notice that it's only in auto.mirror, and we know there have been some problems with ascii in that repo | 04:26 |
| golinux | Yes, change to deb.devuan.org | 04:27 |
| fsmithred | targz, I know some people using mate who use xfce-power-manager | 04:27 |
| fsmithred | I'm the only one seeing it | 04:27 |
| golinux | targz: For your reading pleasure: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt | 04:27 |
| targz | fsmithred, golinux: Thanks, I see you use xfce-power-manager, but it is not the same thing | 04:29 |
| gnarface | someone made a custom build of mate for devuan though, didn't they? | 04:30 |
| fsmithred | yeah, antofox | 04:30 |
| gnarface | something not in the repos officially? i thought i heard it was working for some people | 04:30 |
| golinux | at hezeh | 04:30 |
| gnarface | is this about it? https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2006 | 04:30 |
| gnarface | it's just got one reply saying it didn't work for that guy, but i was sure people in this channel had reported it working | 04:31 |
| golinux | http://hezeh.org/ | 04:31 |
| golinux | He maintains MATE for Devuan. It's also in the git repos. | 04:31 |
| golinux | git.devuan.org | 04:33 |
| targz | Thanks again, maybe I try http://hezeh.org/ :) | 04:34 |
| gnarface | i once again do not endorse the use of 3rd party software with Devuan (despite being guilty of it myself) but if you really really need it, that seems to be your best bet right now | 04:36 |
| targz | First I'll try with xfce, it might be enough. Thanks for your help | 04:38 |
| SuicideJunkie | Oh, that reminds me... there is a panel applet for application searching, right? | 04:41 |
| gnarface | targz: no problem, good luck | 04:53 |
| gnarface | SuicideJunkie: it's the same one from Ubuntu; synaptic | 04:53 |
| gnarface | (not to be confused with "synaptics" the touchpad driver) | 04:53 |
| SuicideJunkie | Not the package manager, but like typing in "spreadsheet" and getting OO Calc | 04:54 |
| gnarface | oh, uh. i don't know synaptic so i don't know if it has a string search. i use apt-get for that. it supports regexp | 04:54 |
| gnarface | it's hardly a panel applet | 04:54 |
| SuicideJunkie | And for things you've already installed | 04:54 |
| gnarface | `dpkg -l` | 04:55 |
| gnarface | (it doesn't support regexp, but you can pipe the output to grep, which does) | 04:55 |
| SuicideJunkie | Where you click the result and it runs. | 04:55 |
| gnarface | hmm. sounds more like a file manager. nautilus? | 04:56 |
| SuicideJunkie | Somewhere between an application launch bar and Menu, but with a search field for name or description. | 04:56 |
| gnarface | hmm. never seen all that in one place, unless you count emacs | 04:57 |
| Xenguy | If you like ncurses, then 'ranger' | 04:57 |
| gnarface | i tend to do things the old fashioned way here still, so i don't know what all is available graphically | 04:57 |
| Xenguy | But if not, then Caja seems to be the newest GUI thing | 04:58 |
| Xenguy | er, default GUI thang | 04:58 |
| Xenguy | sorry, that's in the MATE environment | 04:58 |
| gnarface | yea, i've never heard of either of those. nautilus and midnight commander were the last two file managers i really looked into | 04:58 |
| SuicideJunkie | My old netbook has one, I guess I'll take a screenshot when I get it tomorrow. | 04:59 |
| Xenguy | gnarface: If you like 'mc', which I did also, then you might be interested in 'ranger', esp. if you like vi-related hotkeys | 04:59 |
| Xenguy | It's got this 3-column concept | 05:00 |
| SuicideJunkie | Nothing to do with file managers or installing. | 05:00 |
| Xenguy | And also very good previewing of file content | 05:00 |
| vvande | dm.com was the best from DOS :) | 05:01 |
| gnarface | hmmm. it reminds me, e17 has this thing called "run everything" that kinda behaves like you describe with the text search of installed programs that you can then click to launch, SuicideJunkie | 05:01 |
| vvande | nobody seems to have rewritten those old utils | 05:01 |
| Xenguy | vvande: What did dm do? | 05:01 |
| gnarface | i don't know if "run everything" is part of e17 or something you can use elsewhere though | 05:01 |
| SuicideJunkie | gnarface: that sounds more like it. It was a baked-in default on an old version of Kubuntu... | 05:02 |
| gnarface | it also sorts by most recently used programs | 05:02 |
| vvande | it just displayed the directory and you highlight a file to see it or some other action | 05:02 |
| vvande | 8K assembler | 05:02 |
| vvande | much faster and cleaner than mc | 05:02 |
| SuicideJunkie | Basically, it would be super duper handy for Dad and Bro, since they're not familiar with the names of stuff. | 05:02 |
| SuicideJunkie | And even I have brainfarts too often :) | 05:03 |
| Xenguy | vvande: IIUC, sounds like ranger's behavior (when prerequisite programs/dependencies are installed | 05:03 |
| vvande | yeah, dm will show any file, but as binary | 05:03 |
| vvande | not any conversions or apps involved | 05:04 |
| vvande | it's a different way of working - quite obsolete to anybody I've met since | 05:04 |
| vvande | I still use DOS a lot. | 05:04 |
| Xenguy | I like the ability to 'view' the file content before 'clicking' on it | 05:04 |
| vvande | yes | 05:04 |
| vvande | even if it's just a binary view | 05:05 |
| Xenguy | So 'discoverability' FTW | 05:05 |
| Xenguy | true | 05:05 |
| vvande | exactly | 05:05 |
| Xenguy | Wow, that was an epic grilled cheese (GC) | 05:06 |
| vvande | EGC | 05:06 |
| Xenguy | Apologies, talking about food in the channel :P | 05:06 |
| Xenguy | EGC :) | 05:06 |
| vvande | everything is for thought here | 05:06 |
| vvande | Apologies here too, I just randomly looked in here and jumped in. :) | 05:07 |
| vvande | (I'm always lurking though) | 05:07 |
| Xenguy | Not at all, please do... | 05:07 |
| Xenguy | I remember when IRC traffic would just stream by, endlessly | 05:08 |
| vvande | it does in some channels | 05:08 |
| vvande | I"m on maybe 30 now. | 05:08 |
| Xenguy | Good to hear | 05:08 |
| vvande | only a few are busy though | 05:08 |
| Xenguy | Yeah, heh, just subscribe to more channels, and there ya go | 05:08 |
| Xenguy | These days I feel like it's just some collection of geniuses left on IRC | 05:09 |
| vvande | not a lot of good ones it seems | 05:09 |
| Xenguy | Like only the smart folks actually stuck with IRC | 05:09 |
| vvande | I keep devuan firefox open just because they're handy places to ask about stuff that's often on my mind | 05:10 |
| Xenguy | But I'll always remain a friend of the IRC protocol | 05:10 |
| vvande | smart? !!! ahaha | 05:10 |
| vvande | there's more idiots than you can shake a stick at in some channels | 05:10 |
| furrywolf | amusingly, someone in another channel I'm in just said "frankly, the irc community is a fucking cesspool, so i understand building an entire server/client system just to get away from it" | 05:10 |
| Xenguy | Fair point vvande | 05:11 |
| vvande | either rude or stupid - actually there's some other significant categories | 05:11 |
| furrywolf | at the exact same time people here are talking about how great irc people are. | 05:11 |
| Xenguy | But there are some very knowledgeable people on some of these channels | 05:11 |
| vvande | yeah "cesspool" is accurate :) | 05:11 |
| Xenguy | well now | 05:11 |
| vvande | very knowledgeable, yes | 05:11 |
| Xenguy | These are just my observations; no claim to truth of course | 05:12 |
| vvande | :) | 05:12 |
| furrywolf | also amusingly, I'm repeatedly being called an idiot in that channel. :) | 05:15 |
| vvande | haha | 05:15 |
| vvande | I also hang with a bunch of mosty very young people on another server. Lots of people from Western Europe and particularly India. | 05:16 |
| vvande | they call me grandpa lol | 05:16 |
| furrywolf | heh, I'd be a grandwolfy too. | 05:16 |
| furrywolf | I mean, I've been on irc since the mid '90s... | 05:16 |
| vvande | cool | 05:16 |
| vvande | I was a bit late to IRC, but was online before the internet. | 05:17 |
| vvande | I'm 70. | 05:17 |
| furrywolf | before that I had my own bbs. TWO 2400 baud modems. :P | 05:17 |
| furrywolf | and all anyone ever did on it was play tw2000. sigh... | 05:17 |
| vvande | very cool | 05:18 |
| vvande | yeah, loved that period | 05:18 |
| golinux | It there a devuan question some where here? | 05:18 |
| vvande | tried a couple of years ago to set up a dialup bbs with VoIP, but couldn't get it work well enough | 05:18 |
| * furrywolf would be a BOFH and randomly edit the warp database, so people would find the universe functioned differently... | 05:19 | |
| vvande | golinux, nope - we're watching carefully for one though :) | 05:19 |
| furrywolf | dialup over voip sounds... pointless, somehow. :) | 05:19 |
| golinux | Please move to #debianfork. (I actually thought that's where this was OT was happening) | 05:19 |
| vvande | I have a thing for 2400 - and have a collection of internal ones | 05:19 |
| furrywolf | if you just want to run a BBS for old times' sake, there's telnet bbses now. | 05:19 |
| furrywolf | ah | 05:19 |
| vvande | golinux, will do :) | 05:19 |
| golinux | vvande: Thanks. | 05:20 |
| vvande | :) | 05:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | of topic but funny: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17258203 | 07:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe less funny for tjose who thought protonmail was a particularly bright idea | 07:23 |
| filip | hello | 10:36 |
| xrogaan | how do I configure power management with mate? | 13:05 |
| xrogaan | you know, the delay after which the monitor get into standby | 13:06 |
| sixwheeledbeast^ | System > Prefs > Hardware > Power Mgmt? | 13:10 |
| xrogaan | yeah, I don't have that. Which is weird because I remember something like that. | 13:22 |
| xrogaan | mmh, maybe that was with xfce. | 13:30 |
| xrogaan | yeah, it is. | 13:31 |
| xrogaan | mate has no tool to handle dpms | 13:31 |
| filip | hello | 13:52 |
| filip | i installed devuan today and im so far happy with it however i wonder if firefox is safe browser to use?? | 13:52 |
| xrogaan | why not? | 13:55 |
| filip | librejsi downloaded some browser icecat and it is gnu browser or something based on firefox and it already has https everywhere extension | 13:57 |
| filip | librejs as well | 13:57 |
| xrogaan | if you want to search for alternatives: aptitude search '?tag(web::browser)' | 13:57 |
| filip | and spyblock as well | 13:57 |
| filip | but some services dont work that use javascript | 13:57 |
| filip | for example i wasnt able to access this freenode irc from it | 13:57 |
| xrogaan | iceweasel is a dummy package, it's basically firefox but without the name because debian didn't like registered trademarks. | 13:58 |
| KatolaZ | xrogaan: that's not true | 13:59 |
| filip | what about waterfox then?? | 13:59 |
| KatolaZ | firefox was renamed to iceweasel because of firefox' license | 13:59 |
| KatolaZ | which in practice does not allow to redistribute it in rebuilt form | 13:59 |
| KatolaZ | I guess they changed that recently | 14:00 |
| filip | because i think firefox still may spy on my activity and send data to google | 14:00 |
| xrogaan | you can try konqueror, or links2 | 14:00 |
| xrogaan | but you'll have a hard time. | 14:00 |
| filip | https://www.waterfoxproject.org/en-US/ | 14:01 |
| xrogaan | IIRC waterfox is basically firefox forked by one man. | 14:01 |
| xrogaan | most of what is happening with the project are backports from firefox. | 14:02 |
| xrogaan | Anyhow, if your paranoid you could try the tor browser. | 14:02 |
| xrogaan | (but hey, it's firefox too!) | 14:02 |
| xrogaan | so, you don't really have a lot of choices. | 14:02 |
| filip | im not sure just trying to be secure while browsing net not sure if im secure using firefox | 14:02 |
| xrogaan | the main issue isn't firefox. The main issue are all the third party javascript piece of crap that gets loaded when you go on a webpage. | 14:05 |
| filip | another thing is i tried to download hexchat packages from synaptic packages manager and it required dvd with devuan iso so i was like whaat i installed the os via USB | 14:05 |
| filip | oh yeah i get you so it looks like im not able to use this irc without js | 14:06 |
| xrogaan | you'll have to manage your source.list then. | 14:06 |
| filip | okay another thing is do you know any nice and safe e-mail service that uses imap and pop3 for free?? | 14:07 |
| xrogaan | heh | 14:10 |
| filip | how do i change source.list?? | 14:10 |
| xrogaan | sudo vim /etc/apt/source.list | 14:10 |
| xrogaan | look into /etc/apt/source.list.d/ too | 14:11 |
| xrogaan | or use synaptic | 14:11 |
| filip | oh damn i dont remember password for terminal lol | 14:12 |
| xrogaan | sudo is your password, if your user account is a sudoer | 14:12 |
| xrogaan | otherwise, you need to be root | 14:12 |
| filip | yeah sudo password for filip i forgot that damn | 14:13 |
| filip | xD | 14:13 |
| filip | ill get there its a combination that i know... | 14:13 |
| filip | filip is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported. | 14:14 |
| xrogaan | so use `su' then | 14:17 |
| xrogaan | with root's password | 14:17 |
| filip | #deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan ascii main #deb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan ascii main i have that under etc/source.lust.d | 14:17 |
| filip | ok | 14:17 |
| filip | okay so i typed su vim /etc/apt/source.list and that appeared No passwd entry for user 'vim' | 14:18 |
| filip | okay got it: deb cdrom:[devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1]/ ascii main non-free | 14:19 |
| xrogaan | it's funny how privacy badger actively prevents privacy tools put forward by big corpo. | 14:21 |
| filip | wut? | 14:22 |
| xrogaan | there is something called trustarc.com, forbes uses that website to set privacy things into my browser. But privacy badger blocks that because it installs cookies. | 14:23 |
| filip | okay im trying to edit source.list but it says permission denied when i wanna save it i guess its because not being run under root but i dont know how to run it under root | 14:27 |
| filip | it says its read only | 14:28 |
| filip | omg i feel like i should reinstall | 14:31 |
| fsmithred | filip, you have to be root first, then start the editor. Do you know how to use vim? | 14:31 |
| xrogaan | you can use nano if you prefer | 14:32 |
| filip | somebody said on internet that i may have set same username that i set for root.... | 14:33 |
| filip | nah i dont sorry, im newbie who is escaping from systemd distros and windows... | 14:34 |
| xrogaan | or gksu xdg-open /etc/apt/source.list | 14:34 |
| xrogaan | no, root username is root | 14:34 |
| xrogaan | root is the super admin. | 14:34 |
| filip | No protocol specified (mousepad:13110): Mousepad-ERROR **: Cannot open display | 14:35 |
| filip | maybe ill try different software | 14:35 |
| fsmithred | filip, run su in terminal | 14:36 |
| fsmithred | then give root password | 14:36 |
| fsmithred | then nano /etc/apt/sources.list | 14:36 |
| filip | yeah i got it | 14:36 |
| filip | and now i wanna edit it | 14:37 |
| fsmithred | arrow keys to navigate, ctrl-x to save and exit | 14:37 |
| xrogaan | huh, gksu doesn't work anymore? | 14:38 |
| fsmithred | it's worked for me when I've tried it | 14:38 |
| filip | okay i changed it!! thanks!! gotta write down this command now for future, thanks!! its easy stuff!! :D:D | 14:39 |
| filip | now gonna see if i can download hexchat | 14:39 |
| filip | packages | 14:39 |
| fsmithred | lol, yes, easy once you know the secret words | 14:40 |
| xrogaan | I had to specifically allow root through `xhost si:localuser:root' | 14:40 |
| fsmithred | why download packages instead of just installing? | 14:40 |
| xrogaan | fsmithred: he said apt asked for a DVD earlier. | 14:41 |
| filip | i dont really know just trying something different i guess, but i downloaded packages and still cant see program | 14:41 |
| filip | yeah the problem is solved now :) | 14:41 |
| fsmithred | you commented out the cdrom line? | 14:41 |
| filip | just had to put # before the dvd directory source | 14:41 |
| filip | yeah :D | 14:41 |
| fsmithred | so... | 14:41 |
| fsmithred | apt-get update | 14:41 |
| fsmithred | apt-get install hexchat | 14:41 |
| xrogaan | nuhu | 14:42 |
| xrogaan | apt-get dist-upgrade first | 14:42 |
| fsmithred | oh, maybe | 14:43 |
| fsmithred | I don't know what came before (how the system was installed.) | 14:43 |
| filip | well okay i typed apt-get install hexchat before dist-upgrade now it installed hexchat but when i typed apt-get dist-upgrade it says that 0 has been installed downloaded and updated | 14:43 |
| filip | but anyways i have hexchat now so thank you very much its all so interesting, gotta all write it down soon | 14:44 |
| fsmithred | sounds like you're already up to date. | 14:44 |
| filip | probably :) thanks again | 14:44 |
| fsmithred | yw | 14:44 |
| filip | okay lets get there on hexchat then | 14:44 |
| filip_ | okay everything works like a charm :) | 14:45 |
| filip_ | thank you very much i have another question is there something like app manager similar to ones on mint or fedora?? u know software center?? | 14:46 |
| MinceR | synaptic? :> | 14:46 |
| fsmithred | xrogaan, I just tried 'gksu xdg-open blah' and I get an error message, but gksu mousepad works | 14:47 |
| filip_ | yeah there is synaptic well yeah im just used to ubuntu/fedora/mint distros where u have software managers to download shit | 14:48 |
| filip_ | anyways i wanna change my desktop environment for a nicer one | 14:48 |
| fsmithred | you have xfce now? | 14:48 |
| filip_ | yeah i think i use the xfce one yeah | 14:49 |
| fsmithred | which one do you want? | 14:49 |
| filip_ | im not sure actually ill do some research first | 14:51 |
| filip_ | but devuan runs the same desktops that debian would, yeah? | 14:52 |
| filip_ | which desktop environment do you use?? | 14:54 |
| fsmithred | mostly | 14:55 |
| fsmithred | probably not gnome, but I've heard rumors of people running it | 14:55 |
| fsmithred | mate, lxde, lxqt, cinnamon and kde are available | 14:55 |
| fsmithred | on this machine, I'm using xfce | 14:55 |
| fsmithred | on another, I use openbox (just a window manager) | 14:55 |
| filip_ | i quite like xfce maybe ill just try to modify it a bit | 14:55 |
| filip_ | in settings | 14:55 |
| fsmithred | yeah, play with it for awhile | 14:55 |
| fsmithred | it runs a lot faster than gnome or kde | 14:55 |
| filip_ | yeah i noticed it works like a charm | 14:56 |
| fsmithred | I need food. Back in a few minutes | 14:56 |
| filip_ | anyway im in love with devuan | 14:56 |
| fsmithred | :) | 14:57 |
| filip_ | is there more than change length of the panel and add icons to modify??? | 15:07 |
| xrogaan | ?! | 15:10 |
| xrogaan | that's a xfce question | 15:10 |
| filip_ | nevermind sorry that was unclear question | 15:10 |
| _stephen_ | ascii is great, wish I had upgraded sooner | 15:33 |
| filip_ | what e-mail provider do u use? | 15:45 |
| filip | heya im trying to install plasma kde on my deuvan | 17:47 |
| AlexLikeRock | xset -dpms | 17:49 |
| AlexLikeRock | i not found "/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/" | 17:58 |
| AlexLikeRock | alternative ? | 17:58 |
| _stephen_ | like /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0 ? | 18:07 |
| AlexLikeRock | let me see | 18:09 |
| filip | why all my files from ftp.deuvan download so slowly, is is my fault or fpts | 18:10 |
| filip | ftps* | 18:10 |
| AlexLikeRock | _stephen_, teah , tanks | 18:11 |
| AlexLikeRock | filip, , try torrent ! | 18:11 |
| filip | no its not iso its files from deuvan servel i download on terminal | 18:12 |
| filip | but ill have look on my network speed i guess | 18:12 |
| AlexLikeRock | oh | 18:12 |
| filip | devuan* | 18:13 |
| filip | i usually get 6mb/s download speed but for some reason it shows 160kb/s maybe its temporary issue | 18:13 |
| AlexLikeRock | you have more thatn 6 mirrors | 18:13 |
| filip | yeah ill have a look later, i love deuvan because i spend so much time just to configure this system properly | 18:13 |
| filip | i got it today and its great, now installing kde-plasma desktop | 18:13 |
| KatolaZ | filip: which mirror are you using? | 18:14 |
| AlexLikeRock | "Country-code repositories" | 18:14 |
| filip | deb.devuan.org/merged ascii main non-free contrib | 18:14 |
| filip | and ascii-security | 18:14 |
| KatolaZ | so it' snot country-code :) | 18:15 |
| KatolaZ | nvm | 18:15 |
| KatolaZ | it should be normally quite fast | 18:15 |
| filip | yeah its probably internet | 18:15 |
| KatolaZ | all the mirrors have a lot of BW | 18:15 |
| filip | okay i downloaded plasma-kde gonna see if it works brb | 18:15 |
| filip | okay :D | 18:17 |
| filip | hmm this plasma kde didnt change much | 18:19 |
| filip | i had xfce before | 18:19 |
| filip | i donwnloaded kde plasma and it looks brilliant i use maia transparent theme its so amazing looks 50000 better than windows 10 | 18:44 |
| filip | im surprised how people can pay for this windows 10 shit | 18:44 |
| aggrora | filip: 50 000 is quite the jump :) But I agree, win10 is very flat and unnecessary dark | 18:48 |
| filip | yeah this plasma kde maia transparent is something that looks like desktop from a futuristic movie or a dream | 18:49 |
| filip | would never imagine that having desktop like that is possible if i didnt get into linux :O | 18:49 |
| filip | are things like cairodock safe?? | 19:04 |
| _stephen_ | Anybody play with snaps under devuan? | 21:57 |
| muep_ | I have checked that at least flatpaks seem to work quite ok | 21:58 |
| golinux | Why would anyone want to pollute Devuan with that s**t. | 22:00 |
| muep_ | maybe to install something in a different version than what devuan ships | 22:01 |
| _stephen_ | I'm using ubuntu vms right now to develop ubuntu compatible software, I was considering using snaps insteads of ubuntu vms. | 22:02 |
| _stephen_ | I guess I could get the same from docker, but I was hoping for less overhead. | 22:02 |
| muep_ | I'm quite sure that you will not get less overhead with snaps | 22:03 |
| _stephen_ | The vms work fine, it's just that I duplicate a lot of my settings from devuan into the ubuntu vms. | 22:03 |
| muep_ | less than docker, I mean. but of course snap will be less of an overhead than VMs | 22:04 |
| _stephen_ | I do not enjoy docker. | 22:04 |
| _stephen_ | The vms are less flaky than docker. | 22:04 |
| _stephen_ | I just didn't want to pollute my devuan install with any of the snap stuff it if wasn't really going to work out. | 22:05 |
| muep_ | I haven't found docker flaky but it is "special" in some ways. I do not really enjoy it either | 22:05 |
| _stephen_ | I have volumes persisting between reloading containers -- possibly because stuff doesn't always unmount cleanly -- and ports that arbitrarily stop getting forwarded for services that have been frequently restarted. | 22:06 |
| _stephen_ | It's generally an unpleasant experience. | 22:06 |
| _stephen_ | Oh, I should mention, those docker problems are all on the target ubuntu systems, not devuan. | 22:07 |
| muep_ | the set of problems also depends at least on what combination of (docker, kernel) version you are using | 22:08 |
| muep_ | I tend to prefer using the version shipped by the distribution if it seems like a maintained packaging, instead of getting it from upstream repos | 22:09 |
| _stephen_ | That's a sound strategy, but not always an option, depending on where the stuff needs to be installed. | 22:10 |
| _stephen_ | Maybe I'll set up a devuan vm, play with snaps there, and if it looks okayish, then I'll put it on my regular system. | 22:10 |
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