freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2018-06-08

darkworldbtw stupid question is TeX Live easy to install00:00
darkworldIts the only HUEG package I desperately need00:00
gnarfacei think it's a bunch of separate packages00:00
gnarfacebut i don't think it's hard to install00:00
gnarfacei always end up with it eventually as a dependency of something or another but never used it00:01
darkworldI draft lots of professional documents and using Markup languages is practically cheating because my stuff is always better than my peers00:01
KatolaZdarkworld: texlive works fine in ascii00:02
darkworldbtw I have a graphics tablet is there any specific package set I'll need for that00:05
gnarfacehmmm.  yes, but i don't know them off the top of my head.  is it by wacom?00:08
darkworldIts a ugee tablet but iirc its wacom compatible00:09
gnarfacei know there are wacom drivers, as well as one or two other brands.00:09
darkworldthe main productive things I do with my PC at home is Krita and TeX00:09
gnarfaceit's important to note that it's got all the same drivers as Debian00:10
gnarfaceall the same packages too, with a few exceptions00:10
darkworldYeah I know most are in the kernel but there are some certain tools involved with ym tablet00:10
gnarfacedarkworld, darkworld_ `apt-cache search wacom` and `apt-cache search tablet` comes back with a bunch of stuff for me.  (you can still use packages.debian.org for a mostly-accurate packages search tool if you don't know how to query the devuan repos directly)00:16
gnarface`apt-cache search ugee` doesn't return anything for me, but it wouldn't be unheard of for similar devices to share a driver00:18
darkworldalright im installin00:19
darkworlddoes the netinstaller install a login manager because I dont like those00:32
gnarfacei think it will by default if you pick a window manager/desktop environment.  but if you don't check any of those boxes in tasksel you can install piecemeal afterwards without them.00:33
gnarface(or you can just purge whatever it installs)00:33
gnarfaceyou might run into a package snarl there but we can help you through it00:34
darkworlddamn the install failed when installing the only packageset00:36
darkworldprobably a unetbootin problem00:36
darkworldshould I dd?00:36
unmydarkworld, just do dd00:37
unmyduring installation set up default utils, uncheck desktop, print and blabla and after you will be in home00:38
gnarfaceunetbootin doesn't work with the iso-hybrid images, i don't think.  you don't need it though.00:38
darkworldso im back at the package select00:56
darkworldso I deselect devuan desktop environment right00:56
darkworldif i want a minimal install00:56
darkworldoh wait I see previous post nvm00:57
gnarfaceyes, uncheck everything if you want.  you probably do still want to leave "standard system utilities" checked though unless you know that you don't want things like `less`00:59
darkworldyeah im installing those00:59
darkworldalright its installed01:06
darkworld310 packages, I'm impressed01:06
darkworldinstalling openbox, wish me luck01:06
SuicideJunkieI'm getting a gcc error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so: No such file or directory... but ls shows that there is indeed such a file.01:10
SuicideJunkieGoogle has hinted that it could be a 64/32 bit thing or some unnamed dependencies, but I'm lost and out of search terms to try.01:11
SuicideJunkieAny advice or keywords?01:11
darkworldoh yeah that remind sme how do i install multilib01:12
darkworldor do i need to01:13
darkworldiirc you did in debian years ago01:13
SuicideJunkiedarkworld: multiarch?01:13
darkworldyeah01:13
darkworldi need it for muh gamez01:14
SuicideJunkiedpkg and i386... one sec01:15
SuicideJunkie  > dpkg --add-architecture i38601:15
darkworldI have 32 bit libraries installed already then, yes?01:17
SuicideJunkieThat would add the option to get them.01:17
darkworldbecause I know I need to have those before installing my graphics driver or steam doesnt work01:17
SuicideJunkieYou'd still need to actually pull down, say wine3201:17
SuicideJunkieDepends on the driver I suppose.  On mine, I'd just re-run the driver install and it picked it up and added on the 32 bit support.01:18
darkworldso I added the mirror in dpkg, so do I have to go get them now?01:18
SuicideJunkiean apt-get update and then install to your heart's content01:19
darkworldalright, so I can just install my graphics driver now?01:20
darkworldI already have the file on my disk01:20
SuicideJunkieI expect so.  No idea which driver you've got tho.01:21
darkworldNvidia proprietary01:22
SuicideJunkieAh.  It'll probably demand you boot into single user mode first.01:23
SuicideJunkieAlso needing the dkms package installed if you haven't already.01:23
SuicideJunkieBetween 3 PCs for me bro and dad, and borking things, I've done the install sequence a few times now, and have all the drivers on a separate partition mounted to /backup01:25
darkworldUnable to find a suitable destination to install 32 bit compatibility libraries01:26
SuicideJunkieAfter install, its init 1, add user to sudo, dpkg i386, aptget install dkms, wine32, linux-headers, and then NVIDIA...01:31
SuicideJunkiethe linux-headers would probably be the one you're missing.01:31
SuicideJunkieGet whichever headers match what you're actually running.01:31
darkworldno package called linux-headers, is there a specific modifier im supposed to use for this01:33
SuicideJunkieit'll be linux-headers-#.##.#-#  maybe just try linux-headers-amd64 for the meta package.01:35
darkworldalright im installing01:35
gnarfacedarkworld: for nvidia and steam you probably just need to install libgl1-nvidia-glx:i38601:36
gnarface(after enabling multiarch of course)01:37
gnarfacemake sure you're not using the shell script from nvidia.com.  that will hose stuff.01:37
darkworldsorry for all the newb questions. I haven't used debian in 5 years01:37
darkworldnor have i ever done a netinstall with it01:38
gnarfaceno worries, everyone has to start somewhere01:38
darkworldwhat will happen with that script? its what ive been trying to use01:38
darkworldI always used it on slackware01:38
darkworldI just mounted my home partition, I havent even started x yet01:39
darkworldalready disabled noveau01:39
SuicideJunkieI'm actually using it now.  Can't see a libgl1-nvidia in synaptic search.01:39
gnarfacethe script isn't apt/dpkg aware so it'll run rough shod over your fragile multi-arch package dependency tree.  the damage won't be apparent at first.  it becomes apparent later when you try to upgrade and the whole thing implodes.01:39
darkworldI see01:40
SuicideJunkieGood to know.01:40
darkworldSo im installing the libgl1-nvidia thing01:40
darkworldhow should I go about isn talling the proprietary driver then?01:40
darkworldis that what Im doing?01:40
gnarfacethe debian wiki is still accurate on this01:41
* Xenguy loves the debian wiki for documentation...01:41
gnarfacebasically just `apt-get install nvidia-driver` but then you have to add some extra :i386 stuff for Steam01:41
darkworldI see01:41
gnarfacemaybe for steam you just need the :i386 version of libgl1-nvidia-glx but some games may require additional stuff01:42
gnarfacemake sure you use the *steam* package from the repo too.  the one from Valve's site is for Ubuntu and it will also break.01:42
darkworldalright I try to install an nvidia-driver and there are unmet dependencies from hell01:42
SuicideJunkiewhich repo would that be?01:42
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: the devuan repos, in this context.01:42
gnarfacedarkworld: you remembered to run `apt-get update` after that dpkg --add-architecture command, right?01:43
darkworldyeah01:43
darkworldI already installed the nvidia i386 stuff01:43
darkworldim trying to install nvidia-driver now01:43
gnarfaceit should have come with it....01:43
gnarfaceoh01:43
SuicideJunkieI've got the default repos, and the search isn't finding nvidia01:43
gnarfaceyou should have made sure to install the 64-bit versions first01:43
darkworldshit01:43
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: you have to add non-free to your sources.list01:44
darkworldcan I just uninstall the other one or have I done the damage01:44
gnarfaceyou can uninstall.01:44
SuicideJunkiegnarface: ah, 2 out of 3 were.01:44
darkworldalright doin that01:44
darkworldhopin I can keep this system under 800 packages before isntalling my programs01:45
gnarfaceit *should* get all the package dependencies for you.  i would worry less about the package count than used space.01:45
darkworldunable to correct problems you have borken packages01:45
darkworldI removed the i386 stuff01:45
darkworldtrying to isntall nvidia-driver again01:45
SuicideJunkieAnd even space isn't a big deal.  Hard to eat a terabyte even with today's inefficient coding.01:45
darkworldyeah but I have small disks. Getting a new job in a few days hopefully though01:46
Xenguybest of luck01:46
SuicideJunkieAh, legacy parts?01:46
darkworldI upgraded this thing recently actually01:46
darkworldbut ive been using the same disks for years01:46
SuicideJunkieI don't think you can even buy <1TB these days01:46
darkworldI have a AMD 8350 x8 4.0Ghz and a GTX 770. Nothing super fancy but it's the ebst i've had01:47
SuicideJunkieI upgraded my machine when corp bought us all stuff.  If they were willing to do that it must be dirt cheap :D01:47
darkworldI mean jeez I used a crappy single core celeron dektop till 201301:47
darkworldI know a bunch of people in south america who laugh about crappy specs because theyre all poor01:48
darkworldits a fun topic but you never eally need great specs for gnu/linux01:48
Xenguyexactly01:48
darkworldanyway I have borken packages what do01:48
XenguyWhich is satisfying to me01:48
SuicideJunkieI've got a thinkpad still running.  Its pentium chip features MMX!01:49
darkworldI just retired my X200s because it died altough im more of a dektop user01:49
XenguyLove the TPs01:49
darkworldim tping this to you on a t60p01:49
SuicideJunkie166Mhz, 48 megs of ram, 2 whole gigs of disk space.01:49
gnarfacedarkworld: gonna need to see some shell output to know how to help you fix "broken packages"01:50
gnarfacedarkworld: chances are this is something that nvidia shell script did though01:50
Xenguydarkworld: Huh, that might even be pre- w/e that Intel crap is:  ME?01:50
SuicideJunkieit is also nice to know if you want you can just put the installer stick in and start from scratch until you get it right.01:50
darkworldits pre management engine01:50
XenguySuicideJunkie: I like to use 'ncdu' for clean-up01:50
SuicideJunkieMy TP is running win98se actually.01:50
Xenguyhah01:51
darkworlddamn government get out of my pc reee01:51
SuicideJunkieGot a PCMCIA card with USB2 connectors, and shove a 64GB stick in that puppy.01:51
darkworldfollowing packages have unment deps: nvidia-driver: depends: nvidia-driver-libs but it is not going to be installed01:51
gnarfaceneed to see WHY, specifically, darkworld01:52
gnarfacepaste.debian.net01:52
Xenguy+101:52
darkworldim not even in X I dont know how to copy text from a terminal01:53
gnarfaceoh01:53
gnarfacethere's a shell program called pastebinit01:53
gnarfaceyou could use that01:53
gnarface(it's in the repos)01:53
SuicideJunkieBTW, any ideas on what to read up on regarding the gcc file not found with the file right there?01:54
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: rings a bell...  i found it on google.01:54
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: you trying to crossbuild something for a different architecture?01:54
Xenguydarkworld: If you use screen or tmux, they can copy/paste at a virtual console01:54
SuicideJunkieI'm trying to build it for my current machine.  And I plan to shovel it over to an identical clone box for my brother.01:55
SuicideJunkieIts kodi, so 32bit, on a 64bit box.01:56
Xenguygnarface: huh, that pastebinit looks interesting01:56
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: you might be missing the 32-bit compiler?01:57
Xenguykodi FTW01:57
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: make sure you have gcc-[version]-base:i386 in addition to the amd64 one01:58
gnarface(there will be other stuff but it should get them as dependencies of that or `apt-get build-essential`)01:58
SuicideJunkieI did get through more than half the other bits to compile, but that's a good thing to try.01:59
SuicideJunkieYeah, that's already in.02:00
SuicideJunkie4.9 in this case, as well as 4.802:00
SuicideJunkienot sure why both02:01
SuicideJunkieGot build-essential already02:02
SuicideJunkiehmm.  trying build-essential:i386 does have issues02:03
XenguySuicideJunkie: If you are compiling something on de[bv][iu]an, checkinstall is worth a look02:03
gnarfaceif there's already a version of the package in the repo you could also try: apt-get build-dep [package name]02:04
SuicideJunkiedevuan here02:04
gnarface(sometimes that grabs stuff build-essential doesn't)02:04
SuicideJunkieshould I be trying to get build-essential:i386, or just the gcc multilib I've already got?02:05
gnarfacedarkworld: don't agonize too much over this.  you screwed up, you used the nvidia shell script.  alot of people make that mistake the first time.  it's repairable, but honestly it didn't take you that long to install.  don't blow 3 hours trying to figure out how to paste from a terminal if it'll only take 30 minutes to reinstall from scratch02:05
darkworldalright screw it02:05
darkworldill do it02:05
SuicideJunkiedarkworld: also, keep an install files / backup partition so you don't have to collect all the bits again.02:06
SuicideJunkieEven make yourself an install.sh file to hammer out the common things with notes and comments for future reference.02:06
darkworldwhat bits02:06
SuicideJunkiemine has some installers and games and notes as to what partition IDs go where.02:07
gnarface`dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update && apt-get install nvidia-driver && apt-get install libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386`02:07
SuicideJunkieand that ^ but more wordy.02:08
darkworldI just have a seperate home partitiona and put important thigns there02:08
SuicideJunkie(Also currenly slightly wrong, but will be fixed for next time.)02:08
gnarfaceit might want you to reboot after installing nvidia-driver02:09
gnarfaceit's a good idea to let it02:09
gnarfaceit might not actually prompt, it may just warn you02:09
gnarfacei forget02:09
SuicideJunkieVideo drivers are worth rebooting for02:14
darkworldcan't thank yall fellas enough for the help btw02:14
darkworldiv thought about doing this for a long time02:15
darkworldim not one to distro hop02:15
darkworldim really stubborn about it02:15
darkworldI used to say distros were a myth but SystemD ruined everything and I always sound like an old man when I complian about it02:15
gnarfacei know the feeling02:16
darkworldIts like Christ I started using GNU/Linux 10 years ago. I was a wee lad and I got a single core desktop that had vista installed on it when it was new (one of those "vista compatible" machines that shouldn thave been running vista) so I googled "free operating system" and installed ubuntu.02:17
darkworldWhat am i gonna do. use *BSD and go back in time 10 years when most problem swith gnu/linux have been fixed?02:17
darkworldI mean hell, I can play video games on gnulinux now even02:18
SuicideJunkieKSP got 64bit on linux first, and good times were had.02:18
darkworldI used ununtu till Unitiy came out and my PC at the time couldnt run it, and I didnt know how to switch WMs back then so I used debian for a few years and then slack for the past 502:19
darkworldshould i install the nvidia stuff before or after I install xorg02:23
gnarfaceit should pull in xorg for you automatically02:23
gnarfaceif not we'll make sure it does02:24
darkworldalright02:24
gnarfacethis time, when you get to your first boot, let me know and i'll walk you through it02:24
gnarfaceas a general rule, always use the native package from the devuan repo, even if there is an alternate source that is more up-to-date02:25
gnarface(there are rules to follow if you need something newer, but none of those involve downloading a 3rd party shell script)02:25
gnarfacein most cases you don't actually need something newer02:26
gnarfaceit's important to distinguish actual functionality from version fetishism02:26
darkworldI used `dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update && apt-get install nvidia-driver && apt-get install libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386` and before even installing any packages it still says theres a problem with nvidia-driver deps02:26
gnarfaceok02:27
gnarfaceshow me your sources.list02:27
gnarfacejust /msg it to me02:27
gnarfaceor you know what, hang on02:27
gnarfacei'll just paste you one to use, stand by02:27
darkworldmy sources is just ascii, ascii-security, ascii-updates, ascii-backports02:29
golinuxbackports can bite you if you're not careful.02:30
gnarfacedarkworld: use this as the contents of your sources.list, exactly as shown.  remove everything else.  then run `apt-get update` and let me know if you see any complaints.  i just want to eliminate unknowns first: http://paste.debian.net/1028405/02:30
SuicideJunkieI'm using Jessie, in case that matters.02:32
SuicideJunkieOr wasn't expected02:32
SuicideJunkieDo you think the NVIDIA driver could be causing me the problems?02:34
darkworldi jsut reinstalled02:34
darkworldthat was the first command i tried to enter02:34
darkworldok i changed the file so update?02:34
gnarfaceyes02:35
darkworldah crap I wget the plaintext and its jsut a bunch of webcode02:35
darkworldIll retype it its short02:36
gnarfaceyou could also just use this link instead: http://paste.debian.net/plain/102840502:36
darkworldthats what I wget02:37
darkworlddidnt work02:37
gnarfacelook more carefully.  this link has "plain" in the path02:37
darkworldyeah I did02:38
darkworldidk what I did02:38
darkworldim halfway done copying it anyway02:38
gnarfaceyou can type it out if you'd rather.  i'm being informed it's supposed to be dev.devuan.org now instead of pkgmaster.devuan.org anyway02:39
Jjp137deb.devuan.org (not dev) but yeah02:39
darkworldgood to know02:39
gnarfacemy bad, yea, deb.devuan.org02:40
darkworldalright updating02:41
darkworldcould not get lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock open (resource tomporarily unavailable)02:42
darkworldalright i restarted my pc and its dl'ing the nvidia driver02:44
darkworldGod I hate nvidia02:44
darkworldIm blaming this on nvidia not on devuan02:44
darkworldI just have this card because its the only card i could get that I knew want ruined from those damn cryptominers02:45
darkworldbecause i bought it form a friend02:45
SuicideJunkieYeah, video drivers are the worst part of any system, short of printer drivers but those aren't required.02:45
darkworldI just go up to my college for anythign I need to print anyway02:45
darkworldHP makes it easier nowadays iirc but that means owning planned obsolecense products02:46
darkworldoh great it just failed to fetch a ton of stuff02:46
darkworld404s02:46
gnarfacedarkworld: that lock file error looks like the type of thing that happens when you try to run apt-get twice at once02:47
gnarfaceor when you're not root, or something...02:47
darkworldwell im past that and when I try to apt get grab the nvidia driver everything goes to hell after a while ebcause 40402:47
darkworldnetwork hardware works02:48
gnarfaceok, now THAT is a problem upstream maybe02:48
gnarfacebut that link is a round-robin, so in theory ... it should work if you try it again02:48
darkworldalso im doing all this as root in the command line02:48
darkworldsame error02:48
darkworld404 for everything02:48
gnarfaceoh hmmm02:49
gnarfaceuh, your DNS is working though, right?02:49
darkworldthe links are all supposed to be http://deb.devuan.org/merged right?02:49
darkworldyeah i can ping google02:49
gnarfacethat's right...02:49
darkworldI dont have any crazy network hardware I just have a desktop with a PCI network card02:49
gnarfacelet me try it here.  if it doesn't work right yet you can probably (sigh) switch it back to pkgmaster temporarily ...02:49
darkworldIf I can get into X at all tonight Ill call it a success02:50
gnarfacedon't panic yet, i'm still with you02:50
gnarfacewhat do you get resolving deb.devuan.org?02:50
darkworldyou want me to ping it?02:51
gnarface64 bytes from ftp.rrze.uni-erlangen.de (131.188.12.211)02:51
gnarfacegetting this here02:51
gnarfaceno 40402:51
gnarface(brb, laundry)02:51
darkworld64 bytes from devuan.aclooland.it (91.102.134.99)02:51
darkworldI dunno if its trying to redirect me to somehting because of my location or what02:52
darkworldIm in Florida, USA02:52
djphwhy're you hitting an Italian server then?02:55
gnarfacethe old round-robin never worked for US for me, either02:56
gnarfacei'm in California, USA and it's giving me a german mirror02:57
gnarfacedarkworld: i'm back02:57
gnarfacedarkworld: still all 404s?02:57
filiphey how can i download all files from mirror in one time??02:58
golinuxThe torrent will be available shortly.02:58
gnarfacedarkworld: see if pkgmaster gives you a better response.  the dns issue may be upstream of you but still regional02:59
gnarfaceyour ISPs DNS servers may just be set to update infrequently03:00
gnarfacewe need this part to work first or NOTHING will work right03:00
darkworldyeah03:00
darkworldlet me try packagemaster03:01
darkworldalright tryin to dl now03:03
darkworldwell see what happens03:03
gnarfacei had some problems with timeouts the other day but usually it was working, just slowly03:05
darkworldalright it installed, rebootan03:07
gnarfacegroovy03:08
gnarface(i was hoping you'd give me the list of packages it wanted to include though so i could see whether it got xorg for you or not)03:08
darkworldi typed startx and it wasnt there so i assume ill have to isntall xorg03:09
darkworldapt-get install xorg?03:09
gnarfaceno wait03:09
gnarfacesee if it's there03:09
gnarfacedpkg -l |grep xorg03:09
gnarfaceyou may just be missing the package "xinit"03:10
darkworldit asks to pipe it through less or more03:10
darkworldi forgot how pipe works03:10
gnarfacedo you not have grep installed?03:10
darkworldgood quesiton03:10
darkworldi did a minimal instlal with only base system pkgs03:11
gnarfacegeneral form: dpkg -l [package name[03:11
gnarfaceer, dpkg -l [package name]03:11
darkworldi did dpkg -l xorg with no packages matching03:11
gnarfaceit doesn't wildcard by default03:11
gnarfacedpkg -l *xorg*03:11
darkworldyeah I have a bunch of them03:12
gnarfaceok03:12
gnarfaceapt-get install xinit03:12
gnarface(startx isn't actually required anymore because the default installs use a graphical login manager)03:12
darkworldahhhh03:12
darkworldyeah theyre not my thing03:13
gnarfaceme either, but sometimes i have guests03:13
darkworldmy friends all use gnu/linux and my family members/ladyfriends dont need to get into my pc03:13
darkworldi already have to worry about the damn nsa doing that03:14
darkworldALRIGHT I'm in openbox. Thanks a lot brother (or applicable) !03:15
gnarfaceno problem03:16
gnarfacedo check your xorg log to make sure it's using the nvidia drivers not nouveau03:16
gnarfacethe 700 series works well enough with nouveau it might not be immediately apparent03:16
darkworldone thing I should ask, why is it that my xorg session is on f1 and not f7? I'm used to them being paralell to each other03:16
darkworldhow do I actually see the cli log?03:16
gnarfaceheh, yea they changed that.  it can launch from it's own virtual terminal now03:17
darkworldI always hated systems that did that03:17
darkworldmesses with me03:17
darkworldI wouldnt even know how to go about restarting x with a setup like this03:17
darkworldis that a kernel compile option?03:18
gnarfaceyou can still get the console log, there's a trick to it.  i forget the exact syntax, but you can still have it launch with a terminal as the controlling process, and have that capture the stdout03:18
gnarfacethey disabled ctrl+alt+backspace but ctrl+alt+f[N] should still work where alt+f[N] used to03:18
gnarfaceand you can re-enable ctrl+alt+backspace by disabling some undocumented option in your (now optional!) xorg.conf03:19
gnarfacegoogle for "dontzap" or something like that03:19
darkworldthis is why I hate programmers (t. computerscience student)03:20
gnarfaceand if you find that the nouveau driver is preempting the nvidia binary driver, just add 'blacklist nouveau' to a .conf file in /etc/modprobe.d/03:20
gnarfacefor a 700 series card, there are some cases where the nouveau driver might actually be preferable03:20
darkworldreally?03:21
darkworldIm using a GTX77003:21
gnarfacethe primary difference is that nvidia still does their own thing, while nouveau uses mesa like everyone else, so you can benefit from stuff like "wine-gallium-nine" optimizations03:21
gnarfacethe 700 series is the one they've got reverse-engineered well enough that you can actually benefit from it03:22
darkworldouch03:22
gnarfacefor almost everything else though nouveau will break stuff03:22
gnarfacesince you mentioned Steam, you're better off using the nvidia drivers for now03:23
darkworldyeah the only online games I really play are QuakeWorld TF2 and Fistful of Frags03:23
gnarfacewell the good thing is that the drivers can be co-installed safely.  they don't play nice when loaded concurrently and the one you're not using has to be blacklisted, but you have the option of switching back and forth with just a reboot03:24
darkworldthe proprietary one shave worked fine for hte msot part other than some godawful things with xranrd03:25
gnarfaceheh, yea their half-assed parsing implementation for the config syntax03:27
darkworldI had to map my tablet to HEAD-0 instead of VGA-103:27
gnarfacenouveau doesn't have those types of problems.  aside from the parts they can't reverse-engineer, it's a very well behaved driver these days, for the most part.03:28
darkworldalso i moved my pen around the screen so that seems to work. ill report after i test krita03:28
gnarfacecool03:28
gnarfaceoh, another change to xorg that's important to know besides the xorg.conf now being "optional"03:28
darkworldwhich might I add, despite being a KDE project is one of the best free software projects and I love it03:28
gnarfaceit's no longer required to run xorg suid root03:28
gnarfaceso that's no longer the default03:29
gnarface(nvidia drivers change that still though, i think)03:29
gnarfaceanyway, if xorg isn't running as root, it'll put the log in ~/.local/share/xorg instead of /var/log03:29
darkworldahh03:29
darkworldxorg is wierd03:30
darkworldbut im highly co nvinced wayland is a meme so im indifferent03:30
gnarfaceyea, they were just discussing this in another channel i was in today.  10 years on and i still haven't seen first-hand proof it works.03:31
darkworldm-muh screen tearing03:31
darkworldor something03:31
darkworldI never relaly noticed it03:31
gnarfacein the mean time, the only problem with xorg seems to be everyone's bad attitude03:31
darkworldthe problem with xorg is that its a spaghetticode mess from the 1980s03:31
darkworldbut so is linux anyway (replace 1980s with early 90s)03:32
gnarfacewell nvidia seems to still be backing xorg as far as they're willing to03:32
gnarfacethey don't seem to care if wayland EVER works03:32
gnarfacethat's sortof their M.O. with linux support though03:33
darkworldbut spaghetticode as it is its still nowhere near as bad as the outsourced underpaid indian programmer code microsoft has in windows (poor bastards, if I made that little for my work I wouldnt care very much either)03:33
darkworldat least linus has the "sont blame software developers for bugs" philosophy03:34
darkworldand for that hes a good man03:34
darkworldalso do i still have to grab a firefox deb form somewhere?03:35
gnarfaceno, the whole iceweasel/firefox debacle has passsed by03:36
gnarfaceand you should have been using iceweasel back then anyway03:36
darkworldtheres no package called riefox03:36
gnarfacehmmm03:36
gnarfaceoh, this again03:37
gnarfacecheck for "firefox-esr" instead, is that one there?03:37
darkworldits there03:37
darkworldill install it03:37
gnarfaceok03:37
gnarfaceshould be good enough for most purposes03:37
gnarfaceascii doesn't have the latest firefox becuase mozilla started requiring Rust to build it03:38
darkworldi dont spend much time in a web browser anymore anyway03:38
darkworlddoes it at least have post 57?03:38
gnarfacesorry i think it's 5203:38
darkworldargh03:38
darkworldpre multicore firefox is a joke, it onyl now got usable03:38
darkworlder, they redid the multicore03:38
darkworldand it actually works now03:39
gnarfacehang on, it might be in backports03:39
filipdo u think that systemd sends any data to google servers??03:39
darkworldno but it does default to it for network testing03:39
darkworldwe would know if it did03:39
darkworldsystemd isnt a botnet, its jsut crap03:39
gnarfaceugh03:39
SuicideJunkieI like palemoon for a browser myself03:39
gnarfaceeven devuan is using google's DNS by default i think03:39
darkworldalthough im sure it has tons of backdoors the government can get into since redhat is basically funded by th deprtment of defense03:40
gnarfaceyou gotta watch for that03:40
darkworldbut backdoors are only entered on target03:40
darkworldnot actively transmitting data03:40
filipshit... it sounds creepy what does it mean that something uses google dns. i hate google and i dont wanna use their services at all costs...03:40
darkworldim not a security nerd but I udnerstand the semantics of it03:41
darkworldI live life by one philosophy: I dont trust the government and I dont trust people who trust the government. I dont complicate it with semantics03:41
gnarfacefilip: it just means that somewhere on the internet there's a google server with a list of your entire browsing history, that's all03:41
darkworldmy computing habits tend ot reflect it to some degree or another03:41
filipand somebody from google may have access to it?? is it all just related to browsing history then?? what about data that i have on my PC??03:42
filipi mean browsing internet?03:42
gnarfacefilip: it's just domain names actually03:42
gnarfacenot a huge risk03:43
SuicideJunkiegotta turn 'foo.com' into 111.222.042.042 somehow03:43
gnarfacebut i'd still recommend running local DNS for everyone03:43
gnarfaceit's just faster03:43
filipso should i feel safe about using fedora 28 or is google spying me at the moment lol03:43
filipyeah i dont wanna use google dns...03:43
gnarfacei started running local DNS a long time ago, actually, for reliability and speed, long before the security concerns were more than hypothetical03:44
filipiv installed fedora 2 days ago and now i read that it sends stuff to google servers omg03:44
darkworldthanks pottering03:44
gnarfacedarkworld: so you're up and running solid now, it seems?03:45
darkworldyeah03:45
gnarfacecool, good to hear it03:46
SuicideJunkieso, checkinstall appears to be complaining about a package version with CRLFs in it.  Pretty sure that's not proper.03:46
filipdoes devuan has similar installation mode to other distros like ubuntu or fedora or it requires using terminal??03:46
darkworldthere s agraphical installer and an ncurses one03:46
darkworldits ez either way03:47
gnarfacefilip: it's basically identical to Debian's03:47
gnarfacei mean, functionally, anyway03:47
filipso if i burn iso into my dvd and then just boot it i shouldnt have any problem with installation??03:47
gnarfacecorrect, you shouldn't.  that doesn't mean you won't, but most issues are self-inflicted03:48
filipyeah sure03:48
gnarfaceyou might run into some issue with dns records in your region being wrong for one reason or another03:49
filipwell is this systemd actual a real issue?? Does it mean somebody may spy on me when i use systemd OS? I don't really like some tracker apps that i can see in fedora processes...03:49
darkworldSystemD is bad from a design philosophy03:49
darkworldit turned gnulinux into windows03:50
gnarfaceyea, i'll go you one further - systemd is maintained and designed by bad people.03:50
darkworldbecause windows developers arent intelligent enough to use a *nix style system03:50
gnarfaceit's not that they're not intelligent enough.  it's that they're too damned lazy to try hard.03:50
gnarfaceso they've erected a whole corporate culture toxic to it.03:50
filipsounds really bad to me... i was happy few days ago that i can finally ditch windows for linux03:51
gnarfaceand since they can't win with competence, they have to win with STEALING03:51
darkworldsystemd users condscendingly tell me: "so youre telling me you want your whole system to be duct taped together with scripts"03:51
darkworldand to which I reply "yes, actually"03:51
filipand today i read stuff about systemd thing and im like omg so now it was time to get from windows to linux and now it seems like theres time to get from linuxos to non systemd linux...03:51
SuicideJunkieOk, so, checkinstall tried, and got the same results, IE: gcc: error: /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libGL.so: No such file or directory03:51
filipdownload libraries03:52
SuicideJunkiefilip: I'm here because of the systemd thing.03:52
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: that should be a symlink, is it?03:52
filipi am as well i just discovered it today lol03:52
SuicideJunkieYeah03:52
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: is it valid?  is it pointing to anything that exists?03:52
filiphow did you download devuan then?? can you help me how can i download files from mirrors all at once03:53
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: drivers tend to fight over where that symlink points.  it's possible it got left orphaned if something went wrong during a change or upgrade03:53
XenguyPersonally, I just don't want systemd to swallow large portions of my OS in a very windozy kind of way03:53
filipwell i don't like some unfamiliar processes running on my OS03:54
SuicideJunkieEr... I was about to say yeah I'd checked earlier, but not so much now.03:54
XenguyThere's bad mojo all over it, but many people don't have the eyes to see03:54
darkworldI dont use windows for a reason and im not goign to let redhat rule the world03:54
XenguyAnd yes, I agree that this is largely about design differences03:55
XenguyFor sure03:55
filipis there any possibility to download more files from mirrors than one at once??03:55
gnarfaceit is, but i think that systemd is a trojan horse TOO03:55
Xenguycorporate takeover?03:56
gnarfacefilip: what are you trying to accomplish?  you've asked this question like you're trying to set up a mirror, but you don't seem to need a mirror03:56
Xenguyattack surface?03:56
filipokay so should i download devuan_ascii_2.0.0_i386_dvd-1.iso then03:56
filipohh my friend who uses amiga was trying to download some modules from aminet03:56
SuicideJunkieYou think the NV driver script could have done it?03:56
darkworldoh my god do amigaos users still exist?03:56
filipbut there are so many of them he asked me how he can download all of em at once instead of clicking save on each module03:56
gnarfacefilip: yes, if you want a complete set of files for an offline install, go with the CD or DVD sets03:57
filipwell yeah he's really obsessed with amiga 120003:57
filiphes got real one03:57
darkworldi thought they were just a bunch of furries that stayed away from the clearnet03:57
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: it has for me before, when it has failed halfway through for wahtever reason03:57
Xenguygo for 64-bit, if you can, filip03:57
filipoh ok so its amd64.dvd-1.iso03:58
* Xenguy prepares an awesome grilled cheese sandwich... Will pop in and out ...03:58
filipim quite worried about this google dns thing oh my god. why it takes so much effort to not be controlled while using internet nowadays :/03:59
darkworldbecause the government wants to know everything about you03:59
gnarfaceheh, don't get me started...03:59
darkworldand so do thousands of multinationals03:59
filipi think its not just government but big companies like google03:59
darkworldthey work together of course03:59
filipgovernment is like government but companies like google drive me insane04:00
filipand youtube04:00
filipi wanna escape from it04:00
darkworldsome people like companies and hate government, other people like government and hate companies. I hate companies and governmetn04:00
filipbut not sure if i install devuan ill be able to get off google thing because im not really an it person but its like if devuan uses google dns it means that ill still use their services even on devuan, right?04:01
gnarfacethe way the internet was designed, everyone was supposed to be running local email, dns, file sharing, etc.  nothing was supposed to be centralized like it is.  the problem comes down to two things 1) companies willing to lie 2) idiots willing to believe them04:01
filipyeah i wanna run my local e-mail, some guy told me about writing local e-mail and messanger under safenetwork.org using java04:02
SuicideJunkieOk!  So, the leading problem was that I was blind, and I couldn't see the break.04:02
gnarfacefilip: it's a very easy thing to change the DNS servers in use, however you really only have the choice between setting up your own or using your ISP's, or using some random 3rd party one like google's...04:02
filipoh okay so when i change my OS into devuan that has default DNS server google i am able to change it for different one without any problems04:03
gnarfaceyes04:03
filipokay then04:03
filipthanks04:03
gnarfaceno problem04:03
filipsorry im really trying to escape from corporates04:04
gnarfacecompletely understandable04:04
SuicideJunkieFunfun.  Somebody has undeclared constants in here, but progress is being made :)  Thanks!04:04
gnarfaceglad to help04:05
gnarfacei may wander off without warning, but i do read my scrollback04:05
SuicideJunkieSometimes it just requires a fresh eye/brain04:05
filipi just wonder if installing devuan is like installing arch linux u need commands04:05
filipso if im gonna boot my laptop tommorow with devuan dvd then ill be able to delete fedora and then it will install devuan on my hdd, right??04:06
darkworldinstalling devuan is straightforward04:06
filipokay, great then...04:06
darkworldand for the love of god dont use arch linux04:06
filipoh damn ;D04:07
SuicideJunkieGo through the graphical installer, and click stuff like US keyboard and local mirror.  Next next next done.04:07
filipwell i can't even install it ;D04:07
gnarfacefilip: there is a devuan live image you can test with so you can try it out without reinstalling first...04:07
filipyeah the iso is just downloading. okay nice... well, im excited04:07
filipbut i have to buy new dvd so ill do the installation tommorow cuz its late now...04:07
SuicideJunkieGot a USB stick?04:07
filipyeah i do actually 8gb04:08
SuicideJunkieJust make that a boot stick instead of burning disks?04:08
SuicideJunkiedd the iso onto the stick and done.04:08
filipwell could do but i prefer to burn it on dvd and then save it to the box as devuan installation04:08
gnarfacehmmm.  the live image and the netinstalls work from USB.  i don't know for sure that the DVD and CD images do as well, but i think they might...04:08
filipokay ill just try both then :D04:09
filipi gues04:09
SuicideJunkieI keep the ISOs, and put whatever on the stick on demand.04:09
filipor just usb anyways, thanks for information, hopefully ill be here from devuan tommorow04:09
filipand anyways why arch linux is bad in your opinion??04:10
SuicideJunkieJust remember to set the block size up in dd so it goes fast.04:10
filipwell ok ;D04:10
darkworldbleeding edge philosophy is horrible04:12
filipactually i might try to do it now04:12
darkworldit makes your system a constant maintainence project04:12
SuicideJunkieI accidentally started copying a 3tb drive with the default 512 bytes at a time, and then gave up on it 36 hours later04:12
XenguySo what's an optimum example04:12
Xenguy?04:12
darkworldyou have to update often, each update can break something, if you go too long without updating you can break a lot of things, and pacman is the worst package manager of all time04:13
SuicideJunkieNot sure, probably related to device stats and memory, but at least many megs per chunk works much better.04:13
filipyeah i get it with bleeding edge thing you know, sometimes i use a software and then it updates and i was like what was wrong with it that it needed update lol04:13
gnarfaceXenguy: some newer drives are faster at 4k04:14
Xenguydarkworld: they do have an awesome wiki however04:14
darkworld^04:14
darkworldand a horrible community04:14
XenguyOK, thanks gnarface darkworld04:14
SuicideJunkieI don't understand why it is so hard for developers to just not screw with things that are fine.04:15
darkworldcomprised entirely of 4chan users04:15
Xenguydarkworld: Oh, I had no idea04:15
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: it's easy to figure out once you realize who is selling something04:15
darkworldhilriously, 4chan's distro CloverOS is actually a decent system, who would have thought04:15
gnarfaceRedHat is selling a service.  obviously they have to break everything first for it to be relevant...04:15
darkworldits just precomipled gentoo04:16
filipi wonder if i used to burn ubuntu iso few years ago on this pendrive itll not have any problems with booting devuan04:16
filipi mean if i did burn ubuntu iso on this pendrive04:16
Xenguydd ?04:16
filipif that would boot devuan04:17
darkworldunetbootin didnt work for me use dd04:17
filipwhats dd?04:17
XenguyIf you dd a new image, it will be new04:17
Xenguyfilip: dd is an image copying/cloning command-line utility04:17
Xenguyas in, filesystem image04:18
SuicideJunkieIts a bit shovel basically :)  Dump this to there.04:18
XenguyYou can use dd to copy ISO's and such04:18
filipdd if=/path/to/your/isofile of=/your/usb/disk04:18
targzHi, why not Package mate-power-manager-common bet yes package mate-power-manager-common in ASCII?04:18
filipis that right command?04:18
targzsorry, not mate-power-manager bet yes mate-power-manager-common04:19
SuicideJunkieAnd vice versa to make a .iso if you like.04:19
Xenguyfilip: pretty much04:19
XenguyBut be careful, cos dd is unforgiving04:19
SuicideJunkieadd in bs=32M for decent sized chunks04:19
Xenguy^^04:19
SuicideJunkieI always do an ls /dev, then plug in the USB stick, then ls /dev again04:20
SuicideJunkieThat way I know for sure which is the USB stick and I don't stomp my HDD.04:20
filipgoddamnit i may just get dvd tommorow and burn it onto it04:20
filipit will be easier04:20
filipim tired anyways its 3:20am04:20
gnarfacewriting to USB is gonna be slow no matter what you do04:20
SuicideJunkieAvoid operating heavy commands while tired, yes.04:21
filipyeah definitely ;D04:21
Xenguyhehe04:21
Xenguysleeeeeeeeeeeeeeep04:21
filipwell okay, see you later then and have a nice day04:21
Xenguynn04:21
SuicideJunkieBack in the day I once copied over my project backup with a very carefully written command at 3am04:21
Xenguyoops04:21
gnarfacetargz: someone may have built it04:21
SuicideJunkieHit enter, then immediately stabbed the eject button on the floppy but it was too late.04:22
SuicideJunkieI had two backups, and could have set the write protect tab.  Learning through pain.04:23
fsmithredtargz, what package are you looking for?04:23
* Xenguy remembers a 'rm -rf' story from yesteryear...04:23
targzfsmithred: mate-power-manager04:24
gnarfaceoh, i see now it's banned04:24
gnarfacefor hard systemd dependency :-/04:24
fsmithredit's in ascii and jessie04:24
gnarfacefsmithred: mate-power-manager-common != mate-power-manager04:25
targzyes, systemd is evil! :(04:25
fsmithredapt-cache policy mate-power-manager04:25
fsmithred1.16.2-1+deb9u1 004:25
fsmithred        100 http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/ ascii/main amd64 Packages04:25
fsmithredhowever...04:25
fsmithrednow I notice that it's only in auto.mirror, and we know there have been some problems with ascii in that repo04:26
golinuxYes, change to deb.devuan.org04:27
fsmithredtargz, I know some people using mate who use xfce-power-manager04:27
fsmithredI'm the only one seeing it04:27
golinuxtargz: For your reading pleasure: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt04:27
targzfsmithred, golinux: Thanks, I see you use xfce-power-manager, but it is not the same thing04:29
gnarfacesomeone made a custom build of mate for devuan though, didn't they?04:30
fsmithredyeah, antofox04:30
gnarfacesomething not in the repos officially? i thought i heard it was working for some people04:30
golinuxat hezeh04:30
gnarfaceis this about it? https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=200604:30
gnarfaceit's just got one reply saying it didn't work for that guy, but i was sure people in this channel had reported it working04:31
golinuxhttp://hezeh.org/04:31
golinuxHe maintains MATE for Devuan.  It's also in the git repos.04:31
golinuxgit.devuan.org04:33
targzThanks again, maybe I try http://hezeh.org/ :)04:34
gnarfacei once again do not endorse the use of 3rd party software with Devuan (despite being guilty of it myself) but if you really really need it, that seems to be your best bet right now04:36
targzFirst I'll try with xfce, it might be enough. Thanks for your help04:38
SuicideJunkieOh, that reminds me...  there is a panel applet for application searching, right?04:41
gnarfacetargz: no problem, good luck04:53
gnarfaceSuicideJunkie: it's the same one from Ubuntu; synaptic04:53
gnarface(not to be confused with "synaptics" the touchpad driver)04:53
SuicideJunkieNot the package manager, but like typing in "spreadsheet" and getting OO Calc04:54
gnarfaceoh, uh.  i don't know synaptic so i don't know if it has a string search.  i use apt-get for that.  it supports regexp04:54
gnarfaceit's hardly a panel applet04:54
SuicideJunkieAnd for things you've already installed04:54
gnarface`dpkg -l`04:55
gnarface(it doesn't support regexp, but you can pipe the output to grep, which does)04:55
SuicideJunkieWhere you click the result and it runs.04:55
gnarfacehmm.  sounds more like a file manager.  nautilus?04:56
SuicideJunkieSomewhere between an application launch bar and Menu, but with a search field for name or description.04:56
gnarfacehmm.  never seen all that in one place, unless you count emacs04:57
XenguyIf you like ncurses, then 'ranger'04:57
gnarfacei tend to do things the old fashioned way here still, so i don't know what all is available graphically04:57
XenguyBut if not, then Caja seems to be the newest GUI thing04:58
Xenguyer, default GUI thang04:58
Xenguysorry, that's in the MATE environment04:58
gnarfaceyea, i've never heard of either of those.  nautilus and midnight commander were the last two file managers i really looked into04:58
SuicideJunkieMy old netbook has one, I guess I'll take a screenshot when I get it tomorrow.04:59
Xenguygnarface: If you like 'mc', which I did also, then you might be interested in 'ranger', esp. if you like vi-related hotkeys04:59
XenguyIt's got this 3-column concept05:00
SuicideJunkieNothing to do with file managers or installing.05:00
XenguyAnd also very good previewing of file content05:00
vvandedm.com was the best from DOS :)05:01
gnarfacehmmm.  it reminds me, e17 has this thing called "run everything" that kinda behaves like you describe with the text search of installed programs that you can then click to launch, SuicideJunkie05:01
vvandenobody seems to have rewritten those old utils05:01
Xenguyvvande: What did dm do?05:01
gnarfacei don't know if "run everything" is part of e17 or something you can use elsewhere though05:01
SuicideJunkiegnarface: that sounds more like it.  It was a baked-in default on an old version of Kubuntu...05:02
gnarfaceit also sorts by most recently used programs05:02
vvandeit just displayed the directory and you highlight a file to see it or some other action05:02
vvande8K assembler05:02
vvandemuch faster and cleaner than mc05:02
SuicideJunkieBasically, it would be super duper handy for Dad and Bro, since they're not familiar with the names of stuff.05:02
SuicideJunkieAnd even I have brainfarts too often :)05:03
Xenguyvvande: IIUC, sounds like ranger's behavior (when prerequisite programs/dependencies are installed05:03
vvandeyeah, dm will show any file, but as binary05:03
vvandenot any conversions or apps involved05:04
vvandeit's a different way of working - quite obsolete to anybody I've met since05:04
vvandeI still use DOS a lot.05:04
XenguyI like the ability to 'view' the file content before 'clicking' on it05:04
vvandeyes05:04
vvandeeven if it's just a binary view05:05
XenguySo 'discoverability' FTW05:05
Xenguytrue05:05
vvandeexactly05:05
XenguyWow, that was an epic grilled cheese (GC)05:06
vvandeEGC05:06
XenguyApologies, talking about food in the channel :P05:06
XenguyEGC :)05:06
vvandeeverything is for thought here05:06
vvandeApologies here too, I just randomly looked in here and jumped in. :)05:07
vvande(I'm always lurking though)05:07
XenguyNot at all, please do...05:07
XenguyI remember when IRC traffic would just stream by, endlessly05:08
vvandeit does in some channels05:08
vvandeI"m on maybe 30 now.05:08
XenguyGood to hear05:08
vvandeonly a few are busy though05:08
XenguyYeah, heh, just subscribe to more channels, and there ya go05:08
XenguyThese days I feel like it's just some collection of geniuses left on IRC05:09
vvandenot a lot of good ones it seems05:09
XenguyLike only the smart folks actually stuck with IRC05:09
vvandeI keep devuan firefox open just because they're handy places to ask about stuff that's often on my mind05:10
XenguyBut I'll always remain a friend of the IRC protocol05:10
vvandesmart? !!! ahaha05:10
vvandethere's more idiots than you can shake a stick at in some channels05:10
furrywolfamusingly, someone in another channel I'm in just said "frankly, the irc community is a fucking cesspool, so i understand building an entire server/client system just to get away from it"05:10
XenguyFair point vvande05:11
vvandeeither rude or stupid - actually there's some other significant categories05:11
furrywolfat the exact same time people here are talking about how great irc people are.05:11
XenguyBut there are some very knowledgeable people on some of these channels05:11
vvandeyeah "cesspool" is accurate :)05:11
Xenguywell now05:11
vvandevery knowledgeable, yes05:11
XenguyThese are just my observations; no claim to truth of course05:12
vvande:)05:12
furrywolfalso amusingly, I'm repeatedly being called an idiot in that channel.  :)05:15
vvandehaha05:15
vvandeI also hang with a bunch of mosty very young people on another server. Lots of people from  Western Europe and particularly India.05:16
vvandethey call me grandpa lol05:16
furrywolfheh, I'd be a grandwolfy too.05:16
furrywolfI mean, I've been on irc since the mid '90s...05:16
vvandecool05:16
vvandeI was a bit late to IRC, but was online before the internet.05:17
vvandeI'm 70.05:17
furrywolfbefore that I had my own bbs.  TWO 2400 baud modems.  :P05:17
furrywolfand all anyone ever did on it was play tw2000.  sigh...05:17
vvandevery cool05:18
vvandeyeah, loved that period05:18
golinuxIt there a devuan question some where here?05:18
vvandetried a couple of years ago to set up a dialup bbs with VoIP, but couldn't get it work well enough05:18
* furrywolf would be a BOFH and randomly edit the warp database, so people would find the universe functioned differently...05:19
vvandegolinux, nope - we're watching carefully for one though :)05:19
furrywolfdialup over voip sounds...  pointless, somehow.  :)05:19
golinuxPlease move to #debianfork. (I actually thought that's where this was OT was happening)05:19
vvandeI have a thing for 2400 - and have a collection of internal ones05:19
furrywolfif you just want to run a BBS for old times' sake, there's telnet bbses now.05:19
furrywolfah05:19
vvandegolinux, will do :)05:19
golinuxvvande: Thanks.05:20
vvande:)05:22
DocScrutinizer05of topic but funny: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1725820307:23
DocScrutinizer05well, maybe less funny for tjose who thought protonmail was a particularly bright idea07:23
filiphello10:36
xrogaanhow do I configure power management with mate?13:05
xrogaanyou know, the delay after which the monitor get into standby13:06
sixwheeledbeast^System > Prefs > Hardware > Power Mgmt?13:10
xrogaanyeah, I don't have that. Which is weird because I remember something like that.13:22
xrogaanmmh, maybe that was with xfce.13:30
xrogaanyeah, it is.13:31
xrogaanmate has no tool to handle dpms13:31
filiphello13:52
filipi installed devuan today and im so far happy with it however i wonder if firefox is safe browser to use??13:52
xrogaanwhy not?13:55
filip librejsi downloaded some browser icecat and it is gnu browser or something based on firefox and it already has https everywhere extension13:57
filiplibrejs as well13:57
xrogaanif you want to search for alternatives: aptitude search '?tag(web::browser)'13:57
filipand spyblock as well13:57
filipbut some services dont work that use javascript13:57
filipfor example i wasnt able to access this freenode irc from it13:57
xrogaaniceweasel is a dummy package, it's basically firefox but without the name because debian didn't like registered trademarks.13:58
KatolaZxrogaan: that's not true13:59
filipwhat about waterfox then??13:59
KatolaZfirefox was renamed to iceweasel because of firefox' license13:59
KatolaZwhich in practice does not allow to redistribute it in rebuilt form13:59
KatolaZI guess they changed that recently14:00
filipbecause i think firefox still may spy on my activity and send data to google14:00
xrogaanyou can try konqueror, or links214:00
xrogaanbut you'll have a hard time.14:00
filiphttps://www.waterfoxproject.org/en-US/14:01
xrogaanIIRC waterfox is basically firefox forked by one man.14:01
xrogaanmost of what is happening with the project are backports from firefox.14:02
xrogaanAnyhow, if your paranoid you could try the tor browser.14:02
xrogaan(but hey, it's firefox too!)14:02
xrogaanso, you don't really have a lot of choices.14:02
filipim not sure just trying to be secure while browsing net not sure if im secure using firefox14:02
xrogaanthe main issue isn't firefox. The main issue are all the third party javascript piece of crap that gets loaded when you go on a webpage.14:05
filipanother thing is i tried to download hexchat packages from synaptic packages manager and it required dvd with devuan iso so i was like whaat i installed the os via USB14:05
filipoh yeah i get you so it looks like im not able to use this irc without js14:06
xrogaanyou'll have to manage your source.list then.14:06
filipokay another thing is do you know any nice and safe e-mail service that uses imap and pop3 for free??14:07
xrogaanheh14:10
filiphow do i change source.list??14:10
xrogaansudo vim /etc/apt/source.list14:10
xrogaanlook into /etc/apt/source.list.d/ too14:11
xrogaanor use synaptic14:11
filipoh damn i dont remember password for terminal lol14:12
xrogaansudo is your password, if your user account is a sudoer14:12
xrogaanotherwise, you need to be root14:12
filipyeah sudo password for filip i forgot that damn14:13
filipxD14:13
filipill get there its a combination that i know...14:13
filipfilip is not in the sudoers file.  This incident will be reported.14:14
xrogaanso use `su' then14:17
xrogaanwith root's password14:17
filip#deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan ascii main #deb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan ascii main i have that under etc/source.lust.d14:17
filipok14:17
filipokay so i typed su vim /etc/apt/source.list and that appeared No passwd entry for user 'vim'14:18
filipokay got it: deb cdrom:[devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_dvd-1]/ ascii main non-free14:19
xrogaanit's funny how privacy badger actively prevents privacy tools put forward by big corpo.14:21
filipwut?14:22
xrogaanthere is something called trustarc.com, forbes uses that website to set privacy things into my browser. But privacy badger blocks that because it installs cookies.14:23
filipokay im trying to edit source.list but it says permission denied when i wanna save it i guess its because not being run under root but i dont know how to run it under root14:27
filipit says its read only14:28
filipomg i feel like i should reinstall14:31
fsmithredfilip, you have to be root first, then start the editor. Do you know how to use vim?14:31
xrogaanyou can use nano if you prefer14:32
filipsomebody said on internet that i may have set same username that i set for root....14:33
filipnah i dont sorry, im newbie who is escaping from systemd distros and windows...14:34
xrogaanor gksu xdg-open /etc/apt/source.list14:34
xrogaanno, root username is root14:34
xrogaanroot is the super admin.14:34
filipNo protocol specified  (mousepad:13110): Mousepad-ERROR **: Cannot open display14:35
filipmaybe ill try different software14:35
fsmithredfilip, run su in terminal14:36
fsmithredthen give root password14:36
fsmithredthen nano /etc/apt/sources.list14:36
filipyeah i got it14:36
filipand now i wanna edit it14:37
fsmithredarrow keys to navigate, ctrl-x to save and exit14:37
xrogaanhuh, gksu doesn't work anymore?14:38
fsmithredit's worked for me when I've tried it14:38
filipokay i changed it!! thanks!! gotta write down this command now for future, thanks!! its easy stuff!! :D:D14:39
filipnow gonna see if i can download hexchat14:39
filippackages14:39
fsmithredlol, yes, easy once you know the secret words14:40
xrogaanI had to specifically allow root through `xhost si:localuser:root'14:40
fsmithredwhy download packages instead of just installing?14:40
xrogaanfsmithred: he said apt asked for a DVD earlier.14:41
filipi dont really know just trying something different i guess, but i downloaded packages and still cant see program14:41
filipyeah the problem is solved now :)14:41
fsmithredyou commented out the cdrom line?14:41
filipjust had to put # before the dvd directory source14:41
filipyeah :D14:41
fsmithredso...14:41
fsmithredapt-get update14:41
fsmithredapt-get install hexchat14:41
xrogaannuhu14:42
xrogaanapt-get dist-upgrade first14:42
fsmithredoh, maybe14:43
fsmithredI don't know what came before (how the system was installed.)14:43
filipwell okay i typed apt-get install hexchat before dist-upgrade now it installed hexchat but when i typed apt-get dist-upgrade it says that 0 has been installed downloaded and updated14:43
filipbut anyways i have hexchat now so thank you very much its all so interesting, gotta all write it down soon14:44
fsmithredsounds like you're already up to date.14:44
filipprobably :) thanks again14:44
fsmithredyw14:44
filipokay lets get there on hexchat then14:44
filip_okay everything works like a charm :)14:45
filip_thank you very much i have another question is there something like app manager similar to ones on mint or fedora?? u know software center??14:46
MinceRsynaptic? :>14:46
fsmithredxrogaan, I just tried 'gksu xdg-open blah' and I get an error message, but gksu mousepad works14:47
filip_yeah there is synaptic well yeah im just used to ubuntu/fedora/mint distros where u have software managers to download shit14:48
filip_anyways i wanna change my desktop environment for a nicer one14:48
fsmithredyou have xfce now?14:48
filip_yeah i think i use the xfce one yeah14:49
fsmithredwhich one do you want?14:49
filip_im not sure actually ill do some research first14:51
filip_but devuan runs the same desktops that debian would, yeah?14:52
filip_which desktop environment do you use??14:54
fsmithredmostly14:55
fsmithredprobably not gnome, but I've heard rumors of people running it14:55
fsmithredmate, lxde, lxqt, cinnamon and kde are available14:55
fsmithredon this machine, I'm using xfce14:55
fsmithredon another, I use openbox (just a window manager)14:55
filip_i quite like xfce maybe ill just try to modify it a bit14:55
filip_in settings14:55
fsmithredyeah, play with it for awhile14:55
fsmithredit runs a lot faster than gnome or kde14:55
filip_yeah i noticed it works like a charm14:56
fsmithredI need food. Back in a few minutes14:56
filip_anyway im in love with devuan14:56
fsmithred:)14:57
filip_is there more than change length of the panel and add icons to modify???15:07
xrogaan?!15:10
xrogaanthat's a xfce question15:10
filip_nevermind sorry that was unclear question15:10
_stephen_ascii is great, wish I had upgraded sooner15:33
filip_what e-mail provider do u use?15:45
filipheya im trying to install plasma kde on my deuvan17:47
AlexLikeRockxset -dpms17:49
AlexLikeRocki not found  "/proc/acpi/battery/BAT0/"17:58
AlexLikeRockalternative ?17:58
_stephen_like /sys/class/power_supply/BAT0 ?18:07
AlexLikeRocklet me see18:09
filipwhy all my files from ftp.deuvan download so slowly, is is my fault or fpts18:10
filipftps*18:10
AlexLikeRock_stephen_,   teah  , tanks18:11
AlexLikeRockfilip,   , try torrent !18:11
filipno its not iso its files from deuvan servel i download on terminal18:12
filipbut ill have look on my network speed i guess18:12
AlexLikeRockoh18:12
filipdevuan*18:13
filipi usually get 6mb/s download speed but for some reason it shows 160kb/s maybe its temporary issue18:13
AlexLikeRockyou have  more thatn 6 mirrors18:13
filipyeah ill have a look later, i love deuvan because i spend so much time just to configure this system properly18:13
filipi got it today and its great, now installing kde-plasma desktop18:13
KatolaZfilip: which mirror are you using?18:14
AlexLikeRock"Country-code repositories"18:14
filipdeb.devuan.org/merged ascii main non-free contrib18:14
filipand ascii-security18:14
KatolaZso it' snot country-code :)18:15
KatolaZnvm18:15
KatolaZit should be normally quite fast18:15
filipyeah its probably internet18:15
KatolaZall the mirrors have a lot of BW18:15
filipokay i downloaded plasma-kde gonna see if it works brb18:15
filipokay :D18:17
filiphmm this plasma kde didnt change much18:19
filipi had xfce before18:19
filipi donwnloaded kde plasma and it looks brilliant i use maia transparent theme its so amazing looks 50000 better than windows 1018:44
filipim surprised how people can pay for this windows 10 shit18:44
aggrorafilip: 50 000 is quite the jump :) But I agree, win10 is very flat and unnecessary dark18:48
filipyeah this plasma kde maia transparent is something that looks like desktop from a futuristic movie or a dream18:49
filipwould never imagine that having desktop like that is possible if i didnt get into linux :O18:49
filipare things like cairodock safe??19:04
_stephen_Anybody play with snaps under devuan?21:57
muep_I have checked that at least flatpaks seem to work quite ok21:58
golinuxWhy would anyone want to pollute Devuan with that s**t.22:00
muep_maybe to install something in a different version than what devuan ships22:01
_stephen_I'm using ubuntu vms right now to develop ubuntu compatible software, I was considering using snaps insteads of ubuntu vms.22:02
_stephen_I guess I could get the same from docker, but I was hoping for less overhead.22:02
muep_I'm quite sure that you will not get less overhead with snaps22:03
_stephen_The vms work fine, it's just that I duplicate a lot of my settings from devuan into the ubuntu vms.22:03
muep_less than docker, I mean. but of course snap will be less of an overhead than VMs22:04
_stephen_I do not enjoy docker.22:04
_stephen_The vms are less flaky than docker.22:04
_stephen_I just didn't want to pollute my devuan install with any of the snap stuff it if wasn't really going to work out.22:05
muep_I haven't found docker flaky but it is "special" in some ways. I do not really enjoy it either22:05
_stephen_I have volumes persisting between reloading containers -- possibly because stuff doesn't always unmount cleanly -- and ports that arbitrarily stop getting forwarded for services that have been frequently restarted.22:06
_stephen_It's generally an unpleasant experience.22:06
_stephen_Oh, I should mention, those docker problems are all on the target ubuntu systems, not devuan.22:07
muep_the set of problems also depends at least on what combination of (docker, kernel) version you are using22:08
muep_I tend to prefer using the version shipped by the distribution if it seems like a maintained packaging, instead of getting it from upstream repos22:09
_stephen_That's a sound strategy, but not always an option, depending on where the stuff needs to be installed.22:10
_stephen_Maybe I'll set up a devuan vm, play with snaps there, and if it looks okayish, then I'll put it on my regular system.22:10

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