freenode/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2018-06-13

AcaciaHi I know Devuan supports installing with openrc, but is there an easy way of swapping from sysvinit to openrc on an already done installation? I'd like to compare the 2 a bit.00:45
gnarfaceAcacia: i'm pretty sure it's possible if you know what you're doing01:32
gnarfacebut i don't know how easy it is01:32
fsmithredAcacia, 'apt-get install openrc' - I suggest using a terminal in a graphical session so you can copy/paste the command that you will be instructed to run.01:38
gnu_srs1Acacia: Jut apt-get install openrc. Simple, right :(01:48
dakomg if you cant remember apt-get install openrc you shouldnt be using linux02:21
fsmithreddak, the trickier command to remember is the one that changes all the links in the rc directories.02:51
AcaciaOh. I assumed changing the init system wasn't that easy04:13
gnarfacewell it's a lot less easy if the init system is systemd.  that's why this distro exists.  i can't claim i've tried switching to openrc myself though.  you might still have to take an extra step.04:20
gnarfaceit really MIGHT be that easy though04:20
AcaciaI switched to devuan because I had systemd break on me 3 times whereas other init systems never failed04:23
Acaciabut this really puts the "init freedom" thing into perspective04:23
fsmithredI haven't used openrc, but I've installed it a couple of times for testing. The transition was smooth and easy.04:38
AlexLikeRockwat  about  GITLab   ar  over  AZURE ?04:41
gnarfaceAcacia: yea, swapping an init system shouldn't cripple the whole system.  that was a new feature of systemd.  previously, everything was designed to play nice together.04:50
gnarfaceit didn't always work, mind you, but that is still lightyears away from what systemd does04:51
gnarfaceon purpose04:51
xrogaanFirefox 60 ESR is way faster than the crap that is available by default. I don't understand how people can stand 52 ESR.04:55
furrywolfdoes 60 ESR work with all my old extensions, my non-signed extensions, and my working audio setup?04:57
xrogaanI don't know, but it loads webpages properly.05:00
furrywolfmany of my extensions modify webpages to be closer to my idea of proper.  :P05:01
xrogaanmy idea of proper is equal or less than 1 second.05:02
furrywolfand I absolutely will not, under any circumstances, use a browser that requires signed extensions.  this is pure evil of microsoft levels.05:02
xrogaansigned by whom, mozilla?05:02
xrogaanwell, we don't get a lot of choices. From what I understand we can only chose between the dark ages, chromium or firefox.05:03
furrywolfit is absolutely not OK for any company to appoint themselves arbiter of what other software you're allowed to use.05:03
furrywolfimagine what would happen if microsoft decided you were only allowed to run microsoft-signed applications on windows.05:03
xrogaanaren't they already doing that?05:04
furrywolfit's no better for mozilla to decide you're only allowed to run microsoft-signed extensions on firefox.05:04
furrywolflast I checked, you could still download any random binary from anywhere, or compile your own, and run it.05:04
xrogaanoh sure, until it get binned because it's not an allowed software.05:04
furrywolfsoftware signing is morally wrong, and should not be tolerated.05:06
xrogaanIt's not though.05:07
xrogaanNot with how we use softwares nowadays.05:07
xrogaanand by we, I'm talking about the general public who doesn't give a damn about the difference between a binary and google.05:07
furrywolfyou consider it acceptable that a corporation decides what software you're allowed to run?05:08
xrogaanWhat software is allowed on to run on their services ('cause windows is now a service).05:09
xrogaanmozilla corp. isn't better, I agree with that.05:09
xrogaanintrusive "studies" that gets installed without user consent and that pocket thing that is forced on users to name a few. Not even talking about the responsible ads they want to throw at people.05:11
xrogaanIt won't really matter if the EU passes their link tax.05:12
mrohis it possible to dist-upgrade from sid to ceres?05:13
gnarfaceworked for me about a year ago, anyway05:13
gnarfacehad to manually pitch a few packages overboard i think but i got it working05:13
mrohok, thx05:14
gnarfaceit's important to note that was *before* i'd migrated sid to systemd though, ymmv05:14
gnarfacei did the upgrade to ceres instead05:14
xrogaanare ceres updates in a "rolling distro" style?05:15
mrohi wonder what would be the difference from ceres to sid, if i only change policy-lit in sid05:16
gnarfacexrogaan: i'd been repeatedly told in no uncertain terms in #debian "no" but i still don't see any meaningful distinction05:17
xrogaanmaybe they don't want to be seen as hippies :P05:18
gnarfaceit is basically like a rolling distro except every few years they peel a new "testing" off it05:19
golinuxxrogaan: ceres is sid05:19
gnarfaceso occasionally it's in lockstep with testing, and occasionally testing might get a fix earlier, or unstable might get a change that gets later removed05:19
gnarfacethe rest of the time, if it's not in sid/ceres it's usually because it won't build05:20
gnarface(or is cripplingly unstable - but don't expect them to always restrain themselves from putting broken things in there on purpose)05:20
gnarface(stuff in non-free seems to be worse in that regard)05:21
gnarfacethat's all anecdotal though05:21
mrohi use sid since my first debian release, must be woody or something... so unstable has been pretty stable for me ^^05:24
gnarfacewell it gave me more reliability than Gentoo05:26
gnarfacethat's not saying much though05:26
mrohthe worst thing i can remember was a broken libc...05:26
mrohthe difference between ceres and sid is this?
mrohor is there more than this?05:34
gnarfacei don't know really.  i'm running ceres without udisks2 OR polkit05:36
gnarfacethere's probably not much more than that05:36
gnarfaceceres might use eudev instead of udev by default now05:37
gnarfacenot sure about that05:37
mrohrunning vanilla debian w/o systemd on a server works out of the box, the problem are desktops, because of polkit etc...05:39
TheBlueWizardis there any channel on freenode devoted to networking issues?05:58
golinuxMight be infested with systemd advice though06:15
TheBlueWizardin ##networking channel? well, I got no response so far06:16
muep_there isn't much about systemd to discuss there06:18
golinuxI thought systemd has tentacles in everything06:19
muep_it is not a "how do I configure my OS" channel06:19
* TheBlueWizard gives up on ##networking06:24
TheBlueWizardmy understanding of systemd is that it is more of behind the scene won't see its actions directly. And my networking question revolves around how to set the network properties so that Win box can see Linux box and vice versa (IP only; don't care about DNS)06:26
TheBlueWizardmy goal is to be able to transfer files between two boxes...preferably via web server...copy onto Win box06:27
golinuxWon't NFS work for something like that?06:39
furrywolfdoes NFS ever work?  :)06:39
furrywolfI think the best option for communicating with windows is samba, but I haven't done anything with windows in a great many years, so that may be outdated.06:40
furrywolfbbl, wolfy bedtime06:46
gnarfacei mean, if all you need to do is copy a file across a LAN with assumed perimeter security you can just use netcat07:04
gnarfacethat should be the default case unless you're running software firewalls on the hosts themselves07:05
dethaFor the record, ##networking is mostly neutral on systemd, except for the odd 'oh, that thing getting in the way of sanity again'. But it is rather quiet there this early/late, and mentioning windows will immediately lose you interest from about half of the channel.08:36
gnarfacefor linux-specific networking i think you want to try #netfilter maybe?08:37
gnarfacesomething like that08:38
dethaI always forget about ##netfilter, but yes. More firewall-specific though08:38
Leanderby the way there's ssh in windows 10 now, it could be an easier way to copy files between machines08:44
gnarfaceoh, yea that's a good point.  ssh on windows 10 might be easier.  my thought about netcat was just that it's easy to set up a simple 1-off HTTP server with it, then you could download to windows (any version) with any web browser09:06
AcaciaYeah I replaced sysv-rc with openrc and the boot speed difference was obvious. Nothing broke either so I think it's a straight upgrade so far09:22
Digitsleepy question, is there a tails of devuan?09:37
golinuxYes. Heads
Digitoh yes.  i /am/ sleepy.  n_n  i knew that before.  thanks.  :)09:43
_abc_Hi. Has fsmithred tried to answer my questions/proposals wrt live-boot? I'll leave him a memoserv message, he seems to be busy.10:33
fsmithred_abc_, I'll answer your question after a few sips of coffee11:18
_abc_fsmithred: take your time, I have to get the washing out of the machine11:20
fsmithredif you stayed logged in, you could come back to find the answer11:24
fsmithred           This parameter disables the default disabling of filesystem checks  in  /etc/fstab.11:25
PiHomeServerHi all. I search for help about how to build a custom ISO for a Raspberry. I found the repo but i would like to know how to use it11:33
gnarfaceyou know there's a raspberry pi images already, right?11:34
gnarfaceit would be a lot easier to start with one of those, customize it, then make a copy of the SD card11:34
PiHomeServerOk. Is it safe to do this way in case of certificates or ssh keys generated on the first boot ?11:35
fsmithreddo you want to share the image with other people?11:36
gnarfacei'm not sure there are any such keys in the RPI images11:36
fsmithredssh server?11:36
gnarfaceobviously if you're gonna put some in there then redistribute the ISO... yea, you'll want to make sure not to leave your private keys in there...11:36
PiHomeServerYep. I use the basic ISO, then install scripts, tools, custom website, etc. and then share with the community11:36
PiHomeServerI can clear history and logs before cloning the SD card but not sure if that's safe enought11:37
fsmithredgood idea to remove the ssh host keys, so everyone doesn't have the same ones. (Don't ask me how I know this)11:37
fsmithredPiHomeServer, you looked at this page?
PiHomeServerYes i did. But i'm not expert enought to understand what i can do with it11:41
PiHomeServerI create a VM with Devuan x64. Then installed all. Not sure what to do next as i can't find the script11:42
PiHomeServerOr do i have to install that on a Raspberry itself ?11:42
fsmithredI think you can't use x64. Isn't it arm?11:43
PiHomeServerI was naive to think that i could use a x64 with cross compile tools to generate the ARMv7 ISO :)11:44
gnarface no, that should work11:44
gnarfacebut you will have to enable multi-arch first, which i note that arm-sdk page fails to mention11:44
gnarface(but it should be implied by the inclusion of 'qemu-user-static' in the required package list)11:45
gnarface(also, that's the 32-bit one so this will only work for rpi 1 and rpi 2 unless you change arches and a couple of those packages)11:45
gnarfaceit WILL work on ceres and it SHOULD work on ascii but it will not on jessie11:46
gnarfaceregardless i wouldn't do it in your base install; do it from a chroot.  adding a bunch of arm multiarch stuff to your amd64 system is gonna make a mess.11:46
gnarfacei think if you were doing this on the pi itself you just omit qemu-user-static?11:47
PiHomeServerOk so i have to learn how to do that with "chroot".11:47
PiHomeServerI did nothing on the Pi. I wanted to test in a VM on my Mac11:48
gnarfaceeither way, even if you do this, it won't change the fact that you'll still have to figure out which packages generate secret keys automatically so you can make sure to exclude them from your cloned ISOs11:48
gnarfaceso it really may be a better idea to just start with a pre-built raspbian devuan image11:48
PiHomeServerOk i will start from that ! Thanks11:49
gnarfaceno problem11:50
PiHomeServerAny advice, how once the build is made, how to create an iso avoiding unused space ? Meaning my soft will use less than 1gb, if i use a 8gb card, i will have unused space and no one will be able to install on a 4Gb card11:50
fsmithreddd to .img file?11:51
gnarfacehmmm.  well first of all, don't partition the whole thing.  just partition the first 1GB11:52
gnarface(then it's easy to truncate with dd when copying)11:52
PiHomeServerBy this way we are sure that no file will exist over the sued sapce ? (sorry that sounds maybe to "Windows" defrag mindset )11:52
gnarfaceyes, nothing will write data outside the partitioned space11:53
mpmcHey folks, I have a chip here & I'd like to install devuan, Can I just download the image & flash it like the vendor supplied images (chip flasher)?11:53
djphmpmc: what "chip"?11:54
mpmcCHIP (R8)11:55
fsmithredwhat is a chip?11:55
PiHomeServerOk so before install i resize the partition to the expected size (let say 1.5Gb), i install all, then do a dd with a limit of 1.5Gb + FAT32 partion sized11:55
gnarfacewaoh 9$ sbc11:55
mpmcNo, it was.11:55
gnarfacempmc: let us know if you get that booting devuan, i'm interested but i can't really help11:56
mpmcgnarface: According to the devuan docs it should boot.11:56
gnarfacePiHomeServer: i think you have the right idea.  don't forget to leave space for the bootloader and swap partition (if furnished)11:57
gnarfacePiHomeServer: not sure what you mean by FAT32 there... i'm ignoring that part and hoping you realize you shouldn't use fat32 for any of this11:57
PiHomeServerCool ! I really want to compare Devuan vs Raspbian Lite for my project11:57
gnarfaceoh wait, the boot partition on the RPI is fat32 isn't it?  i keep forgetting that11:58
PiHomeServer@gnarface : i mean the boot partition of the Raspberry Pi that is located on the first partition of 100Mb that is FAT3211:58
gnarfaceyea i think the boot partition isn't right at the first part of the disk.  there's a small bit of extra space there before it11:59
gnarfaceif you overshoot by a couple MB it's no big deal though11:59
PiHomeServerYes. I will add a way to auto extand the ext4 partition on first boot.12:00
gnarfacethere's a big gotcha there12:00
PiHomeServergotcha ?12:01
gnarfacejust make sure not to format it with old ext4 tools, or the new versions will corrupt the filesystem on resize12:01
gnarfacei think this is only a risk if you're using jessie12:02
PiHomeServerI will use the default filesystem12:02
gnarfacempmc: you're right, it's listed there in the readme.  i believe it.12:02
PiHomeServerI want to use the latest release. I have to use it in order to have freeradius 3 and not 212:03
mpmcgnarface: I'm asking in devuan-arm, so don't worry :)12:03
PiHomeServerThank you all for help12:11
fsmithredman live-boot for nofastboot12:16
_abc_So, re: live-boot, I took it apart manually, tried nofastboot too, that addresses fsck at boot time, not clean shutdown imo12:16
_abc_There should be a stanza in the shutdown script which remounts the unionfs ro and then remounts the persistence media ro before shutdown12:17
_abc_just before. Based on 'persistence' present in /proc/cmdline.12:17
_abc_Your thoughts on this?12:17
fsmithredI don't know. Never thought about what happens on shutdown12:17
_abc_That's when things get messed up12:18
_abc_Where is nofastboot interpreted, in which script?12:18
fsmithredit doesn't just sync and unmount?12:18
fsmithredhang on12:18
_abc_fsck on /dev/sdb1 the fat partition in a r2u made volume shows 'There are differences between boot sector and its backup.12:19
_abc_This is mostly harmless. Differences: (offset:original/backup)12:19
fsmithredwow, it's not there12:19
_abc_What is not there?12:19
fsmithrednofastboot is not in any files in /lib/live/boot (or /config)12:20
_abc_fsmithred: in a r2u fat partition, one can change the iso in it by simply copy, right?12:20
_abc_fsmithred: I noticed12:20
_abc_fsmithred: I also tried /etc/init.d/* but that is not relevant, it is "too late"12:20
fsmithredyou mean where you're using the findiso option?12:21
fsmithredif using findiso, you can't just change the iso file - kernel and initrd get pulled out and copied outside the iso.12:22
_abc_Assuming I remaster the iso and put it on the stick, I assume all I need to do is copy it in? Or is there another step12:22
fsmithredthose would need to work with the new iso12:22
_abc_Oh okay assume I fix that too. Or that they are the same12:22
fsmithredshould work12:22
_abc_I notcied the 32MB initrd only contains 26k of firmware at present.12:23
_abc_Is that normal?12:23
fsmithreddon't know12:23
fsmithredis something missing that you need?12:23
_abc_Because initrd is the place where one can put the needed scripts for what I intend to do without remastering12:23
_abc_fsmithred: well there's nothing in there, no initrc for example12:23
_abc_no shell, nothing12:23
_abc_So the initrd gets loaded before the squashfs and there I can implement the fsck but I'd like to hook it into the shutdown too12:24
_abc_Assuming I do this by hand: how does this sound:12:24
_abc_in shutdown script: - check if 'persistence' in /proc/cmdline12:24
_abc_- if yes: remount unionfs ro after shutting all loggers?; remount media on which persistence is ro; then continue shutdown as usual?12:25
_abc_There should be a late-copy-system-to-ram for this umounting to go cleanly but that is not yet possible and would take a long time12:25
fsmithredis that what normally happens on shutdown of a non-live system?12:27
_abc_non-live shutdown remounts all ro just before end12:28
_abc_I assume it fails / does not account for the "funny" mount represented by the unionfs/overlay12:29
_abc_Does this make sense?12:29
fsmithredthere may be discussions about this in debian-live mailing list archives12:29
_abc_I would not know about that, asking you as resident expert.12:30
_abc_fsmithred: /initramfs-tools/scripts/live-bottom/12fstab ::12:32
fsmithredI don't know enough about it to give you a useful answer12:32
_abc_+if [ "${NOFASTBOOT}" != "true" ] then touch /root/fastboot ...12:32
fsmithredI can't find that file12:34
fsmithredoh, is that in the initrd?12:34
_abc_It is on debian, apparently, not on devuan12:35
_abc_Basically the present devuan initrd is empty apart from firmware for cpu12:35
fsmithredyeah, I've run into that12:36
fsmithredremove the intel firmware12:36
KatolaZ_abc_: the actual initrd is under the syslinux dir12:36
_abc_So would you agree that putting some "more" stuff into the initrd.img might fix it12:36
KatolaZ_abc_: ^^^12:36
_abc_KatolaZ: I checked both, the syslinux one is copied out of the squashfs by r2u12:37
fsmithredI think the rest of the initrd is wrapped up inside the blob12:37
_abc_KatolaZ: they are identical, I checked12:37
_abc_What blob?12:37
fsmithredintel bullshit12:37
_abc_It' too small. 26k12:37
_abc_Again: the devuan initrd is 32MB sized and 26k of it are used12:37
_abc_devuan ascii desktop live 2.0.0 at least12:38
KatolaZ_abc_: and how di you manage to boot your system?12:38
fsmithredremove intel-microcode package and you'll get a normal initrd12:38
_abc_KatolaZ: I have no idea, it just works. Seriously, KatolaZ, I've run linux without an initrd most of the time since 1996.12:38
KatolaZ_abc_: sure12:39
_abc_fsmithred: can you detail the steps for that please?12:39
KatolaZI have as well12:39
fsmithredapt-get remove intel-microcode12:39
_abc_fsmithred: remove the package and then rebuild the initrd?12:39
KatolaZI just seem to remember that all the live isos have a proper initrd12:39
KatolaZI might be wrong on that though :)12:39
_abc_KatolaZ: care to check? the one I mentioned now, specifically?12:39
fsmithredI'm booting an iso now12:40
KatolaZ_abc_: you have checked it already, right?12:40
_abc_There's no need to boot it, you can look inside the initrd.img12:40
_abc_KatolaZ: please read backlog?12:40
_abc_cd /tmp; mkdir t; cd t; cpio -id </path/tp/initrd.img12:40
Digitdejavu buying a pendrive to put tails on.  i think last time it got cancelled.  n_n12:42
_abc_fsmithred: it worked, the initrd is back to normal without the firmware package. What the h*?12:44
_abc_fsmithred: care to explain this a bit?!12:44
fsmithredno explanation. I ran into this before, I removed the package, then proceeded as normal12:45
_abc_What else? Any chickens sacrificed? Moonlight?12:45
fsmithredintel-microcode does something with the initrd.12:45
* _abc_ suppresses more sarcasm12:45
fsmithredI don't know what it is, but I decided that I did not want it.12:46
_abc_Let's see what's in the microcode package as files12:46
fsmithredcan you open it?12:46
_abc_I assume it pushes the microcode in at any cost12:46
fsmithredI think it's something.bin12:46
_abc_I don't have it, just deinstalled12:46
_abc_Just a sec. I don't think the bin does the deed, it has to replace the initrd12:46
_abc_sudo apt-get download intel-microcode12:47
_abc_E: Can't select candidate version from package intel-microcode as it has no candidate ?!12:47
_abc_What the12:48
_abc_fsmithred: I have main contrib non-free selected, what can this be?!12:48
fsmithreddon't download as root12:50
fsmithredIjust got the package12:50
fsmithreddid not get it in the live session - I got same error as you12:50
_abc_synaptic claims it's not okay as package, has a record but no version for it12:50
fsmithredoh, only main repo is enabled12:50
_abc_I'm not in the live session now12:50
_abc_disk install12:51
_abc_fsmithred: say again please?12:51
fsmithrednot using in sources, are you?12:51
fsmithredI got the "Can't find a source..." error in the live session12:52
fsmithredin the installed system, I can download the package12:52
fsmithredsame repo12:52
_abc_What's in your /etc/apt/sources.list12:52
_abc_So something is very broken?12:52
fsmithredmain updates and security12:52
_abc_I have ascii-security etc yes12:53
fsmithredmain contrib and nonfree in the installed system12:53
_abc_I have exactly this for binaries: deb ascii main12:54
_abc_deb ascii-updates main12:54
_abc_deb ascii-security main12:54
fsmithredyou need to add contrib and non-free to download intel-microcode12:55
fsmithredI just did it in the live, and the error is gone12:55
_abc_The repository ' ascii-contrib Release' does not have a Release file. >> fsmithred12:56
_abc_yes you are right, added12:57
fsmithredyou got it straightened out?13:01
_abc_I now got a full sized initrd which I unpacked to search for boot time things13:09
_abc_And am going to copy it into the bootable media and boot it, into the fat32 made by r2u13:09
* _abc_ wonders if this system will reboot cleanly to hdd with the initrd in13:09
_abc_One thing: without the initrd boot time was faster...13:10
fsmithredI didn't think you could do that13:10
fsmithred(boot without the initrd)13:10
fsmithredwithout a custom kernel13:10
_abc_Depends how vanilla one's hardware is, I guess. Mine is very vanilla, not by accident.13:11
xkr47\o/ full disk encryption available in install!13:21
_abc_fsmithred: okay, I booted into the live system using nofastboot, no change,13:27
_abc_there is no 'nofastboot' in the unpacked initrd, there is fastboot, found with grep -Rli in the unpacked disk13:28
_abc_running the live system made by r2u with persistence, i.e. /dev/sdb1=fat+syslinux+kernel+iso; /dev/sdb2=persistence; leaves both uncleanly umounted13:29
_abc_checking with another system, i.e. booted into the hdd system13:30
_abc_This is NOT GOOD13:30
_abc_I found one FSCK*.REC file on the fat32 indicating at least parts of the kernel containing sectors ended up there, after fsck, but the disk works as is.13:30
_abc_I assume duplicates or whatever. This is a really bad situation.13:30
_abc_Every reboot basically leads to data corruption13:31
_abc_When did nofastboot last work properly? In wheezy perhaps?13:31
_abc_ /init in initrd.img contains reference to fastboot13:32
_abc_ /init contains simply: export fastboot=n somewhere in the startup...13:34
_abc_later... fastboot|fsck.mode=skip) fastboot=y; later ... fsckfix| fsckfix=y ... forcefsck|fsck.mode=force) forcefsck=y13:36
_abc_so looks like one wants: forcefsck fsckfix and not nofastboot13:37
fsmithredthis might be relevant:
_abc_fsmithred: that looks like it, but is it in or not?13:41
_abc_I just checked that booting and shutting down the usb based system with the full initrd on it does not fix the problem13:41
_abc_What's the exact manual unpacking command for .debs now?13:41
_abc_xz + ar ?13:41
fsmithredar x13:42 is not present in the ramdish13:43
_abc_and also not on the running system13:43
_abc_So where did that mod end up fsmithred13:43
fsmithredI don't know13:44
fsmithredthat was in squeeze13:44
fsmithredbin/boot/ is the only place I can find 'mount -o remount'13:47
_abc_fsmithred: it is passed in as param, see all instances of mount13:47
fsmithredyeah, ok. Got a long list that way13:49
_abc_mount -o remount,"${opts}" f.ex.13:50
fsmithredcomment in 0030-verify-checksums: Attempt to remount all mounted filesystems read-only13:51
_abc_rephrased: every mount attempt in any file in liveboot should be prepended with a if ${forcefsck}; then fsck -y ${fs}13:51
_abc_echo u > /proc/sysrq-trigger ; seems drastic, but one can try it several times13:53
_abc_fsmithred: so the verify-checksums is a cruft which mounts all relevant things, checksums, and umounts them ! so they can be mounted again !13:55
fsmithredthat sounds weird13:55
_abc_Verify_checksums is called only once from 9990-main.sh13:55
_abc_This part of the boot system is so crufty it's a miracle it works at all13:56
_abc_fsmithred: if the live boot scripts run from the initrd, then they do not run again from the uncompressed squashfs right?13:57
* _abc_ hopes13:57
_abc_This is really really crufty13:57
fsmithredI assume that's the case13:57
fsmithredup through wheezy, the fat32 was always mounted ro. Starting with jessie, if you use persistence, root can write to the fat32 partition.13:59
_abc_so, again, to pack/unpack an initrd, one uses the standard format for this, or did that change too?13:59
_abc_cpio ... |gzip ?13:59
fsmithreddon't actually need a persistent volume, just the word persistence in cmdline13:59
fsmithredI do it the other way13:59
fsmithredzcat initrd.img | cpio -i13:59
_abc_but this has to be the special gzip -9 thing no?14:00
fsmithreddon't know. I don't do anything special14:01
_abc_I meant to make a new initrd14:02
_abc_find . | cpio -o -c | gzip -9 > /boot/test.img14:03
fsmithredfind . -print0 | cpio -0 -H newc -o | gzip -c > ../${custom_initrd}.gz14:03
fsmithredthat's right out of r2u - part of patch-initrd14:04
fsmithredwhich patches the initrd to allow user rw access to fat32 partition14:04
_abc_I don't follow, are you saying that the r2u initrd made under ascii should mount the fat32 rw now, or is that in future versions?14:05
fsmithredI'm saying live-boot/live-config will mount the fat32 rw if the word persistence is in the boot command.14:06
fsmithredstarting with jessie.14:06
_abc_that's not the case here in ascii.14:06
_abc_I'll try again but last time I looked, it was ro14:06
_abc_Maybe it's essential for the initrd to be fully populated as is now, after removing the intel fw package14:07
_abc_I looked inside that and the install script seems to mess with the initrd on the system in ways which are not okay14:07
_abc_I assume it's a bug in that particular package version14:07
fsmithredyeah, in ascii it's rw with 'persistence'14:11
_abc_But only with the non intel microcode mangled initrd14:12
_abc_Which must be removed as you said14:13
fsmithredI need to go soon14:14
_abc_I am going to try and add the umount tricks from that patch into the shutdown script in the persistence mount14:16
fsmithredok, I'll be interested to hear what happens14:18
_abc_fsmithred: here?14:47
_abc_I will try to replace /sbin/shutdown with a script which runs the umount commands before running shutdown. It has to be a /bin/sh script in case it is executed from the initrd14:48
_abc_I do not understand if the initrd contents in /lib/live get copied to the running system and executed, or executed in place. I assume the former.14:49
_abc_Will have to place some markers in the file and then boot with it, markers in initrd.img scripts14:49
fsmithredok, leaving now. will be back later today.14:52
fsmithredyeah, I think they get executed in place, before switch-root14:52
fsmithredgood luck14:53
filipdevuanhi im thinking about trying pureOS15:29
_abc_fsmithred: ? I have a working script which cleanly but violently shuts down a session from live+persistence, and works from persistence alone, without modifying the image16:03
_abc_fsmithred: I would like to make it replace /sbin/halt /sbin/shutdown /sbin/reboot16:03
_abc_fsmithred: here?16:44
_abc_been in and out rebooting and checking the script(s)16:44
msiismwhat's the package mate uses for power management in ascii?18:36
buZzpackage mate?18:38
buZzwhats that18:39
buZzalso, what kind of power management are you looking for? most of it is in the kernel18:39
g4570nmate-power-manager is banned in ASCII18:39
msiismbuZz: i was meaning to say: what is the package that mate uses for power management? there is mate-power-manager in debian 9, but not in Devuan ASCII.18:47
buZzoh, no clue, i dont use mate18:47
buZzmaybe the devuan mate has it already built in?18:47
msiismbuZz: me neither :)18:47
buZzwhat does that even do?18:48
buZzah, that depends on udevd and upowerd18:48
buZzdoes devuan have those?18:48
muep_msiism: maybe just install mate and check what is running when you log in18:49
golinuxI'm pretty sure that antofox has cleansed mate-power-manager of systemd18:53
msiismmuep_: don't really want to load that onto my system.18:53
golinuxCheck at and also on git.d.o18:55
buZzgolinux: but are upowerd and udevd parts of systemd ?18:55
buZzis that a yes or a no18:56
muep_upower is not part of systemd18:57
buZzah ok18:57
buZzah indeed, -upower- is in devuan18:57
buZzbut not udev , it seems?18:57
muep_most distributions take udev from systemd but there is also the eudev fork18:57
buZzquestion then becomes , does mate-power-thingy work with eudev18:58
muep_which is a standalone tree of sources18:58
golinuxI heard that is does.18:58
* golinux goes to search logs.18:58
golinuxIt might be in ascii-proposed.19:00
golinuxOr on which will eventually get to devuan proper.19:03
msiismgolinux: i'm sure AntoFox will see the thread on d1g and respond accordingly.19:12
* msiism goes back to implementing his own crude variant of 'shift' in tcl19:17
xrogaanIs there a tool to properly and automatically rewrite /etc/network/interfaces?19:31
xrogaannot for me mind you, for people who can't bother to reconfigure their network.19:58
filipdevuanim trying to install nvidia drivers from .run and i get something like cant install cuz youre connected to xserver discoonect from xserver then try again :<20:01
msiismfilipdevuan: trying to install nvidia driver with a running xserver, as it seems.20:03
filipdevuanyeah probably...20:04
filipdevuani dont know how to exit X xD20:04
msiismfilipdevuan: you need to log out of your graphical session, then kill the display manager, that should be it.20:05
filipdevuanok ill try20:05
msiismshould be sth like /etc/init.d/<display manager> stop20:06
msiismnedd to be root20:06
filipdevuani should write down commands20:06
msiismfilipdevuan: btw, are you sure you want t install the driver that way?20:07
filipdevuannah im not20:07
filipdevuani dont know how to install it in a different way20:08
msiismthere's a debian way to do that, good "debian wiki" and "nvidia display drivers". might be a better choice.20:08
msiisms/good/google :D20:08
filipdevuanok cheers20:09
msiismthat should be it20:09
filipdevuandeb stretch-backports main contrib non-free20:09
filipdevuanwill it work from there20:09
msiismfilipdevuan: you will need to adjust that for devuan.20:10
msiismthat would be as folllows, if if i'm not mistaken:20:11
msiismdeb ascii-backports main contrib non-free20:11
msiismbut make sure you really need backports before you do that.20:12
msiismthe page should explain that.20:12
filipdevuanill try to download legacy drivers from package manager20:13
msiismok, if the howto say that will require backports, you will need backports.20:13
filipdevuanby the way is there huge difference between noveau drivers and non free driveers??20:14
filipdevuanin game performance foe example20:15
msiismfilipdevuan: i think noveau is ok for average use. if you want to play games (e.g., neverball) you'll need the proprietary stuff.20:15
filipdevuanok brb i reboot20:15
golinuxInstall nvidia from console F1 etc.  sgfxi automates the process
filipdevuanwell the truth is20:18
filipdevuanthat i want use gnu free software only but im thinking about going back to windows just to be able play some shit games which is unacceptable for me20:18
filipdevuanso im just gonna install non free drivers and play non free games just to resist from going back to windows 1020:18
golinuxDisclaimer I haven't used that for years but it always got the job done including blacklisting and removals20:18
golinuxNow I use nouveau20:20
filipdevuanused what?20:21
filipdevuanomg im so used to windows and games that right now when im linux im completely lost20:23
filipdevuanim trying to be gnu free software but i bought wrong laptop for that20:23
filipdevuanokay i think i have optimus graphics card20:26
msiismfilipdevuan: the wiki page should help you to find the right driver for that. it's a bit tedious, i know.20:35
filipdevuanits okay its only a problem because its non free and its always issues with non free stuff, you know20:35
filipdevuanissues to discourage you from free linux to get back to non free windows20:35
filipdevuanon linux mint i had them installed properly however i read too much stuff about systemd and cant use systemd linux distros :<20:36
msiismfilipdevuan: well, learing how to install proprietary graphics drivers i part of the game for you then :)20:37
filipdevuanyeah i dont wanna go back to windows just because on windows everything is preinstalled...20:38
golinux<filipdevuan> used what?20:40
golinuxsgfxi  Get it here:
golinuxAutomated nvidia driver installation20:41
golinuxif the devuan repos fail you20:41
filipdevuani think everything fails me20:43
filipdevuani dont even know whats this smxi20:43
filipdevuanokay i know now thanks20:46
filipdevuanokay im doing it thanks :>20:46
xkr47installed clean ascii on virtual machine, autoconfigured encrypted disk, without desktop env, just ssh server & base tools.. on shutdown it fails to shut down the encrypted drive, says busy for a while and then timeouts the unmounting and reports "failed"20:47
xkr47the machine powers off after this20:47
msiismfilipdevuan: i suggest you go with the Debian way of installing it, which is on the wiki page, you've already found. it may be a bit complex, but it's probably the cleanest.20:48
filipdevuanim on it now
msiismfilipdevuan: if that's the way you wanna do it, i won't try stop you...20:50
filipdevuan# apt install linux-headers-$(uname -r|sed 's/[^-]*-[^-]*-//') nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver20:52
filipdevuanthat command looks weird20:52
filipdevuanand when i put deb command it says it doesnt exist the command or something in terminal20:52
msiismfilipdevuan: read the wiki page before you do these things or you will probably break your system.20:53
msiism(or well, read any docs for anything you're trying to do there beforehand)20:53
msiismfilipdevuan: if you don't understand something, you can ask anytime. if there's an error, please provide the exact error message and the command entered that caused it.20:55
filipdevuani think im to impatient lol its crap what im trying to do because im trying to install non free drivers to play steam games20:56
filipdevuanbut i hate steam cuz its corporate bollocks and they sell users data...20:56
filipdevuanbut im just bored20:56
filipdevuanused windows whole life20:56
filipdevuanso im used to convenience too much20:56
msiismwell, if you're bored, how about getting into some linux basics first?20:57
_abc_fsmithred: here?20:57
_abc_So I have a solution for clean umount of media on live boots made with refracta2usb or drirect live boots, in the form of a script which replaces /sbin/{poweroff,halt,shutdown,reboot} and seems to work cleanly20:58
msiismfilipdevuan: or you can play open ttd, which is a quite boring and complicated game about trafficing goods in trans and busses and by ship etc. doesn't need 3d drivers, since it's so retro.20:58
_abc_Previously the shutdown always left the media umounted unclean20:59
_abc_@ fsmithred ^ ask me / memoserv me about this tomorrow20:59
filipdevuaniv downloaded like 50 games from synaptic package manager strategy games rpg games but i still wanna install non free drivers to play one or two matches in dota 2 and then uninstall20:59
filipdevuanim just really new to the world of linux and i feel lonely xD20:59
filipdevuani dont really need these non free drivers...20:59
_abc_fsmithred: I mean your today, my tomorrow, 10PM here20:59
msiismfilipdevuan: well, i'm not a shrink, so i cannot help you there :)21:00
_abc_filipdevuan: this is not about feelings. Let's talk about your system, not about you ;)21:00
* _abc_ switches off ELIZA mode21:00
filipdevuanwell for example id like to know how to check my system configuration in deuvan i use xfce21:00
msiismfilipdevuan: the first question there will always be: what kind of configuration?21:01
filipdevuangraphics card memory card like system info21:02
filipdevuani mean ram memory not memory card xD21:02
muep_with xfce you can use most of the tools that you could use in all the other environments21:02
msiismfilipdevuan: you should have a look at the 'lspci' command21:03
filipdevuanwell to be honest i like xfce cuz its pretty straightforward but i think my favourite environment is gnome21:03
filipdevuanintel intel intel intel i dont like this company and yet everything is intel, so 3d controller is graphics card i guess21:04
filipdevuannvidia corporation device 179c (rev a2) what 179c and rev a2 means?21:04
* _abc_ just found another bug in xfce4 @ascii: maximize an app, and the window decorations are gone. Can't unmaximize it.21:04
_abc_I had to resort to a scraping script app to fix it21:04
msiismfilipdevuan: 179c is a driver version, afaik.21:05
filipdevuanyeah so it seems like to me nouveau drivers are just normal drivers but out of date??21:06
muep_filipdevuan: nouveau is an entirely different driver21:06
filipdevuanwould it show in lspci that i use nouveau drivers then. i think i could have messed up my configuration a bit with installing nvidia drivers from synaptic21:07
_abc_Fyi to unmaximize etc apps in xfce4, install and use devilpie which is a crazy screen manipulation app21:07
_abc_rule based21:07
filipdevuani remember from windows i was just able to see card i use but in linux its like i dont even know what card the system sees in my laptop21:07
_abc_filipdevuan: there are many many ways to see the card21:08
_abc_hwinfo is one21:08
filipdevuanit says bash:hwinfo:command not found21:08
_abc_filipdevuan: sudo hwinfo21:08
filipdevuannot found as well oh im under root btw21:08
_abc_apt-get install hwinfo21:08
msiismfilipdevuan: so what could that mean?21:08
filipdevuani have no idea xD that some command is missing? :D21:09
_abc_yes you need to install it21:09
filipdevuaninstall hwinfo??21:09
_abc_apt-get install hwinfo ...21:09
_abc_without the dots!21:09
filipdevuanyeah i know21:09
_abc_And press Enter at the end ;)21:09
filipdevuani know apt-get ;D21:09
_abc_you want hwinfo |less, there's a lot of text there21:10
filipdevuanE: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it?21:10
_abc_filipdevuan: you have synaptic open perhaps21:10
_abc_or aptitude?21:10
filipdevuanoh yeah i do21:10
_abc_you can install it from there21:10
filipdevuanokay its installing21:10
filipdevuanso i think i have got plenty of commands to installs then21:11
_abc_oh yeah21:11
golinuxfilipdevuan: you only need the sgfxi script.  thought some of the other toola are interesting21:11
filipdevuanyeah yeah iv already configured xgfxi script21:11
filipdevuanjust need to reboot21:11
_abc_err reboots are very seldomly needed21:12
_abc_telinit 1 followed by telinit 2 perhaps21:12
filipdevuanoh btw when i type some command to terminal and i wanna terminate the process and get back to command line how do i do it??21:12
msiismthat is Ctrl+C21:12
filipdevuanoh ok21:13
_abc_filipdevuan: how did you get to devuan? You might be a windows or ubuntu user?21:13
filipdevuani had mint first. then i was like i wanna try something different so i tried fedora21:13
filipdevuanand fedora was cool but some tracker apps were there and then i read some weird stuff about systemd21:13
filipdevuanprocesses i mean tracker processes21:13
_abc_yeah, the tinfoil hatters.21:13
filipdevuanso i was like omg this systemd sounds like conspiracy to me so i read a list somewhere init linux systems so this is how i got into devuan basically21:14
filipdevuani was thinking about trying SafeOS but im just gonna stick to devuan21:14
filipdevuani was just looking for OS without dodgy or unwanted processes running in the background so this is why i installed devuan21:15
_abc_am I here or what21:16
msiism_abc_: it seems so21:17
_abc_Stupid server change stresses me out21:17
filipdevuaniv seen some weird processes on devuan as well with d at the end or packagekitd polkitd21:17
filipdevuanim like is it some systemd or something21:17
_abc_filipdevuan: it is but they are mostly neutered21:17
filipdevuanyeah i see ;P21:17
_abc_filipdevuan: same as a dog with removed b***s, no bite, little barking.21:17
filipdevuannice ;D21:18
_abc_polkit is a nightmare, it's acl without acl21:18
filipdevuanyeah its running on my system21:18
_abc_Another layer of red (mad) hat(ters) on top of unixsanity21:18
_abc_filipdevuan: it appears there are problems to replace it for now21:18
_abc_It' s a piece of crap that gives me no end of grief.21:18
filipdevuanupowerd obexd gvfsd it all looks like redhat to me xD21:19
_abc_Basically it's sudoers acl and secure linux all in one21:19
_abc_filipdevuan: those are standardish21:19
_abc_gvfsd is related to dbus, another crazy invention which declared normal unix sockets obsolete and reimplemented it 100 times more complex in C++21:20
_abc_The idea is to change everything that can be changed until people scream, then continue changing, and silence more etc21:20
filipdevuanokay i did this smxi script and now it wants me to shutdown my desktop21:20
filipdevuanbut im concerned if i really wanna have non free drivers on my system ;/21:21
_abc_I went to #freebsd to ask what the situation is there, they said they're not moving to systemd but you can run it if you want to?!21:21
filipdevuanyeah iv read about that as well on internet today21:21
_abc_why are you concerned about nonfree stuff?21:21
filipdevuani dont know iv found that theres gnu free software movement on internet21:21
filipdevuanand non free drivers would be for games but these games are just time wasters to be fair i could have spent it for learning how to use linux instead21:22
msiism_abc_: are the redhat people really those wearing the tinfoil hats? i'd say they are rather wearing red hats, but might be mistaken. maybe there's red tinfiol, too.21:22
_abc_msiism: no, we are the ones who wear them, because of red hat people21:23
filipdevuani also wonder if installing non free drivers wont mess my laptop up21:23
_abc_filipdevuan: usually no, but you can always back out. s/always/mostly/21:23
_abc_filipdevuan: don't you have like a computing club or makerspace or such in your area? Where you can match up with people with like interests?21:24
_abc_Virtually match up, like join their local chat/mailing list21:24
filipdevuanuhh i hardly doubt it there would be any linux user in my area, everybody uses macbooks or windowses...21:24
filipdevuanits england...21:24
filipdevuani have a friend who is into amiga though very much21:24
KatolaZfilipdevuan: there are linux user everywhere in the world nowadays....21:25
_abc_heh amiga. This reminds me I need to get and install the spectrum zx emulator again and reinstall my favorite games from when I was young.21:25
filipdevuanwell yeah dunno how to find any linux friends in my town xD21:25
KatolaZfilipdevuan: you'd be surprised21:25
* msiism goes to the kitchen to find some tinfoil and see if it'll make any difference.21:25
filipdevuananother thing is most of em are systemd users linux mint ubuntu and i dont really like ubuntu cuz they coop with microsoft now21:26
filipdevuanand i hate google as well21:26
filipdevuanso basically i feel like i dont even know what i can do on linux that i cant do on windows21:27
filipdevuani should get some books21:27
msiism(if you find the time)21:32
filipdevuanokay so basically if im gonna bring down some notepad and pen could you introduce me to some important commands that id need and what they do so ill type down everything?????21:34
KatolaZman man21:35
KatolaZthen also21:35
KatolaZman LETTER+TAB+TAB21:35
KatolaZwhere LETTER is a lowercase letter in a-z21:36
filipdevuanletter tab tab in terminal21:36
KatolaZman LETTER+TAB+TAB21:37
KatolaZand you'll learn a lot of things about unix21:37
KatolaZin a couple of years21:37
filipdevuanokay cheers <321:38
sixwheeledbeast^systemd makes little difference to learning your way round basic unix, at the moment anyway.21:38
msiismfilipdevuan: well, maybe one thing you should know that you're command line interpreter ("shell") is called bash (if you didn't change that).21:38
filipdevuanwhats dpkg??21:39
msiismfilipdevuan: you can find out through "man dpkg"21:39
filipdevuanoh thats clever21:39
msiism"man <command>" will give you the manual page21:39
filipdevuani didnt know about that!! :D21:39
msiismfilipdevuan: well, KatolaZ was try to say that, but ok.21:40
filipdevuanyeah sorry21:40
msiismno problem21:40
filipdevuanwhat command did i use to see my hardware configuration??21:41
msiismfilipdevuan: and don't worry if you don't really understand the contents of manual pages. they are often quite tehcnical in nature.21:41
msiismfilipdevuan: you can find that in the command line history21:41
msiismat the command promt hit cursor up a few times.21:42
KatolaZfilipdevuan: apropos hardware21:42
filipdevuanoh this is another clever thing, thanks lol!! are you a developer??21:42
filipdevuanhdinfo ;D21:42
filipdevuanoh no this one doesnt work21:42
msiismfilipdevuan: no, i was just bored one time.21:42
AntoFoxmsiism: as soon as I can :)21:43
filipdevuanfor some reason it doesnt show the command i used for hardware configuration the one wth |short21:43
msiismAntoFox: thank you!21:43
msiismfilipdevuan: that may be because you used to many command after that for it to remember.21:44
msiismfilipdevuan: bash's history is limited.21:44
filipdevuanno i have commands that i used before this one21:44
filipdevuanmaybe its because i run this command under root21:44
filipdevuanand it wont show me commands i used from root when im not root21:44
KatolaZyes filipdevuan21:45
filipdevuanyeah that was right21:45
KatolaZcommand history is per-user21:45
filipdevuanby the way is there any possibility to get rid of bios and install librem instead??21:45
msiismfilipdevuan: is there a problem withyour bios?21:46
filipdevuanno, no there isn't. whats oemstring1 oemstring2 oemstring3 what does it mean??21:46
_abc_Latvia? Lithuania?21:46
msiismfilipdevuan: where do you get that?21:47
filipdevuanhwinfo |less under graphics card21:47
filipdevuanvideo graphics control21:47
msiismfilipdevuan: ok, looks like some info the vendor could have provided but didn't. not sure.21:48
msiismi mean the graphics card vendor21:48
filipdevuan       str1: "U3E1"21:48
filipdevuan       str2: "Intel(R) Corporation"21:48
filipdevuan       str3: "Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7200U CPU @ 2.50GHz"21:48
filipdevuan       str4: "To Be Filled By O.E.M."21:48
filipdevuan       str5: "To Be Filled By O.E.M."21:48
filipdevuan       str6: "To Be Filled By O.E.M."21:48
KatolaZfilipdevuan: I would suggest one step at a time21:48
filipdevuanthe weird stuff about my laptop is that it uses two graphics cards....21:49
msiismfilipdevuan: how do you know?21:50
filipdevuanbecause thats what they sold me first one is intel hd integrated second one is nvidia geforce 940mx. its something really weird in my opinion, when i was on windows i had to switch between cards21:50
_abc_filipdevuan: all laptops use "2", one is the VESA fallback and the other one is the accelerated graphics card21:51
fsmithred_abc_, I'm back.21:51
filipdevuani bought this laptop to play windows games but i ended up with using linux21:51
_abc_fsmithred: you're only concerned with the accelerated one21:51
fsmithredI'm interested in the shutdown script21:51
_abc_fsmithred: okay, so I made a script which uses echo 'u' >/proc/sysrq-request or such and it works, it replaces /sbin/{shutdown,halt,reboot,poweroff} which are linked against it21:52
_abc_fsmithred: I'll paste it, it still has a few bugs, do not use on a non-persistence system21:52
_abc_ fsmithred21:54
_abc_fsmithred: the bug consists in 'insufficient' detection of the persistence mode and in not calling the right binaries if persistence is not enabled (it tries to exec /sbin/shutdown.bin etc, symlinking those against /sbin/shutdown makes it work there too)21:55
msiismfilipdevuan: you might want to check out http://tldp.org21:56
_abc_fsmithred: to install: boot into persistence from a live usb iso, copy the script into /sbin, then move halt to halt.bin shutdown to shutdown.bin and symlink poweroff halt shutdown reboot to the script21:56
fsmithredthanks, I'll play with it21:56
filipdevuanwhat for? :P21:56
_abc_filipdevuan: it seems to work cleanly and leaves no fuzz at all21:56
_abc_* fsmithred ^21:57
msiismfilipdevuan: it will save you from gaming, for example.21:58
filipdevuanyeah gaming is fucked up21:58
KatolaZfilipdevuan: some of the stuff on might be  abit outdated, but it's all good stuff21:59
KatolaZs/abit/a bit/21:59
filipdevuanwindows gaming especially, i have 50 games right now that are waiting for me to be played, strategy games for example but i still keep thinking about windows games its so pain21:59
msiismfilipdevuan: KatolaZ is right, but it's still kind of _the_ go-to place for general linux docs.21:59
filipdevuanyeah im just reading unix and internet fundamentals ;P21:59
msiismalso, it has apparently been updated today21:59
KatolaZmsiism is right :)21:59
filipdevuanyeah thanks for all your information, im glad its free22:00
filipdevuancuz in real world theres no such a thing like free22:01
KatolaZfilipdevuan: uh?22:02
KatolaZare we in an imaginary one?22:02
filipdevuanyeah usually when somebody wants give you knowledge he wants money for it22:02
filipdevuani dont like reading on the screen oh my god22:03
msiismfilipdevuan: you can print stuff out.22:03
filipdevuanyeah i know22:04
filipdevuanbut anyways im just lazy bitch to learn22:04
KatolaZfilipdevuan: you don't have to read all22:04
KatolaZonly the stuff you are interested in22:04
KatolaZthe "man LETTER" thing is useful if you have spare time22:04
KatolaZeven 5 min22:05
KatolaZI used the trick when I started with unix22:05
filipdevuanyeah i do you know i dont do anything useful everyday22:05
KatolaZI did that whenever I had free time22:05
_stephen_may as well add 'man -k keyword' to that list of man hints.22:05
_stephen_oh, someone else mentioned apropos...22:06
KatolaZfilipdevuan: man `apropos .  | cut -d " " -f 1 | shuf | head -1`22:07
msiismKatolaZ: now, that is interesting.22:08
KatolaZmsiism: ;)22:09
filipdevuani cant go below line 23/4522:10
msiismfilipdevuan: i'd start with
msiismi should probably read that myself...22:13
filipdevuanoh damn xD22:13
golinuxIt never hurts to read and reread22:13
filipdevuandid you get through all of it msiism?22:13
msiismfilipdevuan: i've never read it before... :D22:13
msiismfilipdevuan: but i have read some other stuff from tldp and might have even crossed a chpater or two of that guide. it was really helpful.22:14
msiismalso, if a local library is throwing out a bunch of totally outdated introductory books for Unix, you could grab one.22:15
msiismthey usually have good explanations of how to use the command line. and there will hardly be any difference to you system up to a certain level.22:16
filipdevuaniv never seen any books related to unix in this library22:16
KatolaZa good one is "Unix Power Tools"22:16
KatolaZit's a miscellanea of stuff and hacks22:16
KatolaZI think it's also available online22:16
KatolaZfor free22:17
KatolaZbut it's not a book to read back-to-back22:17
filipdevuanyeah i wanna see myself reading this stuff22:17
filipdevuanwont believe it when i start get into it22:17
KatolaZfilipdevuan: unix is not about reading22:17
KatolaZis about doing22:17
KatolaZdoing what you need22:17
filipdevuani downloadded it22:18
filipdevuani dont know what i need xD. I wanted to get some drivers and install all related to playing windows game stuff basically22:18
filipdevuanbut i get bored of em very easily. usually its like i wanna play some game so i install it and then i play it for 2 minutes and i turn it off and dont play it again :/22:20
KatolaZfilipdevuan: you should try moria22:21
KatolaZor angband22:21
filipdevuani downloaded moria today actually unixmoria22:22
filipdevuani really loved game called heroes 3 of might and magic22:22
KatolaZif you like the genre, you might want to try angband22:23
filipdevuanyeah im downloading it in a bit22:23
filipdevuani wonder how these nintendo emulators run, how do i play games on em22:24
_stephen_how does moria compare to slashem?22:24
filipdevuanyeah i wanted to play some text-based game22:24
KatolaZ_stephen_: slashem is a *hack right?22:25
KatolaZ(meaning that it is in the nethack family)22:25
_stephen_oh, you start in a town...22:25
KatolaZyes, but then you never visit the same level again22:26
_stephen_Oh, you can keep going back to the town, like diablo...22:26
KatolaZunless you go for iron-man mode22:27
KatolaZbut that's only in *band22:27
_stephen_does it crazy murder you like slashem and nethack do?22:27
KatolaZnot in umoria, IIRC22:27
KatolaZ_stephen_: it's harder to die for stupid things, like in nethack22:28
KatolaZbut yes, you can definitely die on level 1 :D22:28
filipdevuanokay im playing some game called flare right now ;D22:28
filipdevuanjust started ;D22:28
KatolaZoh didn't know flare22:28
_stephen_.. flare is an engine..?22:29
_stephen_oh, that's pretty smooth22:29
KatolaZ_stephen_: apparently there is also a game22:29
KatolaZwith non-ascii graphics and all22:30
KatolaZit's isometric22:30
KatolaZother genre ;)22:30
filipdevuanoh nice game like diablo22:30
_stephen_I think I played that late one night when I should have been sleeping, and then I forgot about it...22:30
KatolaZlooks neat though22:30
filipdevuanbut i control my character with keyboard keys not with mouse P22:30
filipdevuanquite dark game nice22:31
specingpretty sure there are isometric gui clients for ascii games like nethack22:32
_stephen_nethack-x11, slashem-sdl...22:33
_stephen_falcons eye used to be pretty cool22:33
filipdevuanim playing permadeath22:34
filipdevuannice game22:37
_stephen_is there a key you can press to attack or do you have to use the mouse?22:37
filipdevuani use mouse to attack22:37
filipdevuannah i dotn think theres a key ;D22:37
filipdevuanr u playing flare right now?22:40
golinux#debian-fork is a good place for generic chatter22:42
mchasardi'm under myio linux22:46
mchasardhow to install locate to my language french22:46
mchasardlocale sorry22:47
mchasardto get french language22:47
filipdevuanfrench language of linux??22:50
mchasardto get this myolinux with french language22:50
_abc_mchasard: you are in gui?22:51
_abc_Also why ask myolinux questions in devuan?22:51
mchasardcause myo linux is based in devuan22:51
buZzdpkg-reconfigure locale ?22:52
buZzdno if that changes language aswell22:52
buZzimho using nondefault languages just makes sure you'll be unable to find helpful searchengine hits on errormsgs22:52
mchasardok thanks i'm trying22:53
mchasardlocale is not installed22:53
_abc_ do you have a link to myo linux?!22:54
mchasardyes wait please22:55
mchasardi donwload a browser theres noone installer22:55
_abc_if you're in a gui you change the gui's language going to something like settings->language or settings->keyboard and mouse22:56
_abc_in a terminal you only want to set the keyboard which is done simply.22:56
_abc_Are you in gui or in terminal?22:56
mchasardlanguage is ok for keyboard22:57
fsmithredmchasard, locales not locale22:57
fsmithreddpkg-reconfigure locales22:57
_abc_So then what do you try to set up? Gui? Graphics?22:57
_abc_*are you trying to22:57
_abc_fsmithred: any opinion on the script?22:57
fsmithreddpkg-reconfigure keyboard- (I forget if it's -configuration or -setup)22:57
fsmithredjust had a quick look at the script22:58
fsmithredno opinion yet22:58
fsmithredexcept for noticing || and && in the same line22:58
_abc_It's a dirty hack, needs a lot of cleaning and more checks but it works22:58
_abc_there are parens there ;)22:58
mchasardhi fsmithred22:58
_abc_|| ( && )22:58
fsmithredok, I didn't notice that22:59
_abc_fsmithred: so anyway I rebooted a number of times with it, works nicely and is faster than the usual reboot. Disks sdb1 sdb2 remain clean on shutdown23:01
_abc_mission accomplished.23:01
fsmithredmaybe that should get pushed upstream23:01
fsmithredis it French now?23:02
mchasardall menu etc ..from any soft are in english keyboard is in french23:05
fsmithredafter dpkg-reconfigure you need to log out and log in again23:08
fsmithredmchasard, is the application menu in english or french?23:09
fsmithredthis is an installed system, right? Or are you running from live media?23:10
mchasardsystem is intalled23:10
fsmithredyou chose french as the default locale?23:10
mchasardyes if i remember23:11
mchasardwith refracta installer23:11
fsmithredwell, I do know a way to make it french.23:12
fsmithredare you the only user?23:12
mchasardyes i just installed it under vboox23:12
fsmithredmake a file: /etc/profile.d/locale23:13
fsmithredwith two lines in it...23:13
booyahwriteput ar_AR.UTF-8 in it and done23:13
booyahwait, you want language as in France, or actually French Language23:14
* booyah <_<23:14
mchasardthe second line is ?23:15
mchasardok and i exit and save23:16
fsmithredthen log out/in23:17
fsmithreddid it work?23:18
mchasardno allways in english23:18
fsmithredopen a terminal23:18
mchasardi have to reboot or just logout an login?23:18
fsmithredrun 'ls notarealfile23:18
mchasardok done23:19
fsmithredyou should get an error message in french23:19
mchasardls: cannot access 'notarealfile': No such file or directory23:19
mchasardno en english23:19
fsmithredis the locales package installed?23:20
fsmithredit's not you23:20
mchasardi don't believe23:20
fsmithredchanging language usually causes problems23:20
mchasardapt-get install locale ?23:20
mchasardits already installed23:21
mchasardlocales is already the newest version (2.24-11+deb9u3)23:21
fsmithreddo dpkg-reconfigure locales again, and make sure you select french as default23:21
mchasardi should be sudo23:22
mchasardi have now the good menu wait please23:23
mchasardfr_FR.UTF-8...cannot open locale definition file `fr_FR': No such file or directory23:26
mchasardnot worked23:26
fsmithredwhere do you get that message?23:27
mchasardupdate-locale: Error: invalid locale settings:  LANG=fr_FR.UTF-823:27
mchasardafter dpkg locale23:27
KatolaZmchasard: have you tried "dpkg-reconfigure locales"?23:27
KatolaZyou must activate your preferred locales there23:27
KatolaZotherwise they won't be generated23:28
fsmithredyeah, you have to check the box next to each language you want.23:28
fsmithredor edit the file manually (/etc/locale.gen)23:29
mchasardlocal gen is ok23:30
fsmithredthe line for french is uncommented?23:30
KatolaZmchasard: but then you have to run locale-gen23:32
mchasardtheres no locale.conf ?23:32
fsmithreddpkg-reconfigure should have run locale-gen23:32
mchasardok done23:32
KatolaZyes fsmithred23:32
mchasardso i logout /in ?23:33
mchasardallways in english23:34
fsmithredls /usr/share/locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/23:34
fsmithredyou should see the names of many programs23:35
mchasardyes i see23:35    transmission-gtk.mo23:36     pidgin.mo23:36
fsmithredyeah, those are translation files23:36
mchasardi'm under hexchat and its in english23:36
fsmithredI don't understand why it's not working23:36
mchasardok thansk i have to go to bed sorry i'm working ...23:38
fsmithredok, good luck23:40
fsmithredmaybe rename the file I had you made23:41
mchasardbye may be see you tommorrow23:41
fsmithredfrom locale to locale.sh23:41
fsmithredbut you shouldn't really even need that.23:41

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