freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2018-06-15

refracta_noobsu -c gparted complains about "No protocol specified" "cannot open display: :0.0" - and when I try it from the applications menu entry it also doesn't work.00:02
refracta_noob'sudo gparted' complains of the same00:03
refracta_noobtrying gparted-pkexec, polkit-agent-helper-1 complains of "No session for cookie" even though /usr/lib/policykit-1/polkitd is running00:08
refracta_noobI just wonder if I didn't somehow make a mistake during the install.00:08
golinuxrefracta_noob: Install gksu then gksu synaptic.00:13
freemrefracta_noob, well, if it says "cannot open display: :0.0" then you can set the DISPLAY variable to that value. Which would be "su -c 'DISPLAY=:0.0 gparted'"00:18
freembut, honestly, 0.0 is a value I've never seen affected to this variable.00:19
freemanyway this, with xdotools, would allow you to send an input to computer of a colleague for a joke, or more serious usages :)00:20
freemI wonder if this would would imply "needs_root_rights=yes" into the xorg config file, though.00:21
freemhum.... speaking about running X11 stuff as root, do anyone know how I could run an X11 application as a daemon? At work, I've that need, and am using a workaround that consists of changing tty1's getty to autolog on a user, and that user have a .profile that says autorun xinit, which reads .xinitrc to start the damn GUI...00:24
freemit's quite the pile of crap, and it implies creating a dedicated user. I'm almost certain I could simplify the setup, but can't think how...00:25
refracta_noobthanks golinux, that worked like a charm00:27
barnyardI have a question00:29
gnarfacefreem: if you need to leave a gui program running, most people would just use VNC to reattach to that desktop00:29
barnyardfor some reason I'm having trouble getting my ralink based wifi dongle working00:29
barnyardI downloaded firmware-misc-nonfree00:29
gnarfacethat one may have it's own firmware package00:29
barnyardand have the non-free repos added to my sources.list00:30
gnarfacethere's a firmware package just for realtek firmwares00:30
gnarfaceisn't ralink realtek?00:30
barnyardfirmware-ralink links me to firwmare-misc-nonfree00:30
barnyardI also have firmware-realtek installed00:30
gnarfaceoh.  do you have wpasupplicant installed too?00:30
barnyardand networkmanager00:30
gnarfacedoes dmesg say anything interesting when the device is plugged in?00:31
barnyardmy realtek based wifi dongle IS working however00:31
barnyardjust not the belkan N150 ralink one00:31
barnyardit does say realtek in the networkmanager nm-applet00:32
barnyardbut I know for sure the firmware is installed00:32
barnyardand one dongle already works00:32
barnyardthe belkan one works under windows00:32
gnarfacenot all the devices will work00:34
gnarfacei can't tell you anything specific about these particular ones00:34
gnarfacethere's a list of known working devices in the kernel though00:34
gnarfaceif you start there at least you'd know for sure whether it's supposed to work or not00:34
barnyardit has worked under other distros in the past though00:35
barnyardlike manjaro00:35
gnarfacesince you have one working i'm going to assume this isn't a case of user error00:35
gnarfacewhat kernel version were you using in manjaro?00:35
barnyard4.14 I think00:35
barnyardmemory is hazy though00:35
barnyardcould be 4.900:35
gnarfaceascii only has kernel 4.9, so if you had a device that wasn't fixed until recently, that could be the issue00:35
barnyardI've ran that device under even 3.1 though00:36
gnarfacethis info should be easy to google up if you use the model# of the device00:36
barnyardstill works00:36
gnarfaceregressions have happened00:36
gnarfacei suppose it's also possible you just need to load the module manually00:36
gnarfaceor change some module option00:36
barnyard Belkin Components F7D1101 v1 Basic Wireless Adapter [Realtek RTL8188SU]00:37
gnarfacewhat does dmesg say when you plug in the device for the first time after a fresh boot though?  that's where you should look first for context sensitive info00:37
gnarfacethe debian wiki mentions that device by name00:38
gnarfaceit should work if you have firmware-realtek installed from non-free and the r8712u module loaded00:39
barnyardI don't know if this works00:39
refracta_noobfreem, xpra might be what you are looking for - another way might be to use xvfb00:39
barnyardgnarface: I don't think I have that module loaded00:39
gnarfacethe debian wiki also mentions some of them have to get an additional firmware file manually installed, but that's not one of them...00:39
gnarfacebarnyard: if you don't have the module loading automatically you can just add the name to the /etc/modules file00:40
barnyardwhats the name of it again?, is it purely just r8712u?00:41
gnarfaceaccording to that wiki page, anyway00:41
gnarfacewhich was last updated as of jessie00:41
gnarfacesometimes they do change module names too00:42
barnyardoh ok00:42
barnyardhave the debian page up00:42
gnarfacemaybe they did change the name actually, because i don't see it here anywhere in any of my kernels going all the way back to 3.1...00:43
gnarfacethat's weird00:43
gnarfacei wonder if it's just not built in the stock kernel for debian00:44
gnarfaceit wouldn't be unheard-of for manjaro and ubuntu to have wildly different kernel configs00:44
barnyardyeah on the debian page it just points me to install firmware-realtek00:44
barnyarddoes contrib apply to devuan too, because I don't have that on my sources.list00:45
gnarfaceyes, i usually enable contrib and non-free together because a lot of stuff in there is intertwined00:45
gnarfacethe debian wiki leads to here:
barnyardwhat sites are using for repos00:47
barnyardI'm using the standard
gnarfacewhich mentions an entirely different "rtl8192su" out-of-tree usb driver00:48
gnarface(which i also don't see installed anywhere on my box)00:48
gnarfacei'm using the same on my ascii boxes00:48
gnarfacebut i'm also not seeing this driver in ceres, either00:48
gnarfacethis is a curious mystery00:49
barnyardstandard, updates, and security?00:49
barnyardmaybe I should add backports00:49
gnarfacethe case of the missing driver00:49
gnarfacei can't imagine it'd be in backports00:49
gnarfaceyou could try though00:49
gnarfaceyou could try the backport kernel00:49
gnarfacei have a feeling something else weird must have happened00:49
gnarfacethis driver must have been renamed or something00:49
gnarfacei'm out of ideas, but i don't think this problem is self-inflicted00:50
barnyardI see, thanks for your help anyway00:50
gnarfacei'm hesitant to even call it a bug though because there's a huge paper trail suggesting this driver actually exists...00:50
gnarfaceso there's something we're both missing here, sorry00:50
barnyardI'll try compiling the source for the github driver00:51
gnarfaceworth a try00:51
barnyardmine is RTL8188SU00:52
freem00:29:28 <gnarface> freem: if you need to leave a gui program running, most people would just use VNC to reattach to that desktop => no,sorry, I need to run something like a session manager00:55
freem00:39:25 <refracta_noob> freem, xpra might be what you are looking for - another way might be to use xvfb => well, I do not know what xpra is for, I'll take a look00:56
freemhum... xpra may be a good pointer, maybe the tool I need, thanks refracta_noob, I'll RTFM it00:57
refracta_noobmy pleasure00:58
gnarfacefreem: as i understand it you would run VNC *and* a session-manager00:59
gnarfacefreem: (i guess that means you wanted multi-user access for this, which isn't assumed by VNC itself but neither precluded by it)01:00
gnarfacefreem: another option would be to just run multiple instances of Xorg in parallel.  nothing is stopping you from doing that01:00
gnarfacethey could each have their own VNC instance01:00
gnarfacethat actually might be better if you're assuming that sometimes multiple users may need to remotely access different desktops concurrently01:01
gnarfaceas far as i know there's no session-managers that also offer remote access but i could be wrong...01:02
freemwell, I was not accurate enough01:05
freemgnarface, At work, we are building stuff to recharge electrical vehicles. This mean, we need a GUI, that autostarts (in case something is wrong and the system reboots). No multiuser there, execpt when I take control via ssh01:07
gnarfacesession managers will auto-start the GUI as part of their job automatically, so that's taken care of, but you'd still have to log in by default with all of them.  i know that some of them at least can be configured to auto-login then though.01:08
freemhere is my problem: now, I have to create a user with a HOME containing said application (it's an electron crap... against my will) to autostart things01:08
gnarfaceyea, the auto-login user still has to exist01:08
gnarfaceyou can't just auto-login as nobody01:09
gnarfaceunix doesn't work like that01:09
gnarfacethere's no "guest" account unless you make a user and call it guest yourself01:09
gnarfaceand then you'll still have to manually configure auto-login and permissions and such01:09
gnarfacebut, the plus side is you only have to do it all once01:09
freemIn practice, the best would be to write a script that runs as root and drop rights, like, say, gdm01:09
gnarfacethat should be possible.  up until recently, the default was to do that actually.  some drivers still require it (*cough* nvidia *cough*)01:10
freema kiosk, if that word mean something01:10
barnyardmy dream os is a microkernel with a risc-v vm running on top of with all the userland in scheme and lua01:10
gnarfacenow, most the current open-source drivers launch as your user by default instead of as root but it's easy to change it back01:11
freemlet's be honest... if you wan' t clean code, don't use FSF's code01:11
freemtrolling apart... I would like to run that X11 soft by runit01:12
freemthis would allow me to start it only when conditions are ok, and so, to reduce log pollution01:12
freemoh this would also help log recollection01:13
freemnot sure if you see what I mean01:13
freemI don't even know why I'm thinking about work at this hour btw....01:14
gnarfacejust remember not to overcomplicate it by trying to avoid doing things the way they were intended to be done, that's the only real advice i can give you01:16
gnarfacewhat you're trying to accomplish sounds like 3 completely solved problems to me01:17
gnarfaceif you try to compress them into one solution you run the risk of making something that's exponentially more complicated and less well future-proofed01:17
freemfact is, I do not know how to redirect to logs of the final app to the standard log dirs01:17
gnarfacewell you can just write them there if you want01:18
gnarfaceif you name them right, logrotate will even pick them up without adding extra rules01:18
freemthis is my major problem. Hum.... I could just create a folder with good rights, on the other hand01:18
gnarfacebut if you want to do it the "right way" you'd read up on rsyslogd01:18
gnarfaceyea, you can do it manually or you can lean on rsyslogd to manage it for you01:19
gnarfacenative programs take both approaches01:19
freemI don't use rsyslog, but svlogd. Does not matter, really, most of the time. Except that cron is not able to log to stdout, so I used busybox cron insted01:19
gnarfaceok, yea any syslog daemon, i guess.  there are a few to choose from.01:20
gnarfacersyslogd is just the venerable default01:20
freemwell, I had a problem here01:20
gnarfacecouldn't debootstrap with rsyslogd in the package list?  known issue, it's been fixed.01:20
freemsome softs just use a damned non configurable unix socket01:21
gnarfaceoh hmm01:21
gnarfacei can't tell you much about that01:21
freemah, no, at work, we don't use devuan, sorry.01:21
freemOh, I guess so, but I can say a bit01:21
freemI used runit to manage services. I really think it's a very good init system, or at least watchdog01:22
freembut some debian's daemons only accept to write to an unix socket, not to stderr or stdout. Like cron.01:23
freemso, I basically used busybox crond, which works.... except that the Debian built version does not implement the @features01:23
freemtook me a while to figure it out, I had to check the only exact doc: source code.01:24
freemI wonder, what is devuan's point of view about tools like busybox?01:25
gnarfacei can't say in any official capacity01:26
freemsure, but what's your opinion? Just follow the debian way?01:27
freemI won't quote you, I promise01:27
gnarfacemy understanding of it is that everything that was accepted by debian is accepted by devuan except systemd and other related things that were purposely designed to interfere with the previous things01:27
gnarfaceeven systemd they TRIED to accept01:28
gnarfacebut it was just too much work to neuter it01:28
gnarfaceso they had to throw that out along with anything tied to it too strictly01:28
gnarfacebusybox as i understand it classifies as "harmless"01:28
gnarfaceand it's in the repos still01:29
freembusybox is not related in any way with systemd. In practice, I think it's devs are mostly against systemd01:29
gnarfaceso i think you're safe using busybox if you want01:29
freembut, debian, the "universal" system, does not build it full options01:29
freemwhich implies the doc is not synced with features01:30
gnarfacethat's not uncommon and may be entirely unrelated to anything01:30
gnarfacesometimes things just slip through the cracks01:30
gnarfacehere's the list of actually banned packages01:30
freemalso, busybox provides a tons of tools, and the busybox package could provide alternatives to a lot of stuff01:30
gnarfacethese packages were all banned because they couldn't be untethered from systemd, or were useless without it01:31
freembanned packages? There are packages that are just banned?01:31
freem oh01:31
gnarfaceit's not a long list01:31
refracta_noob(because they require systemd, for the most part right?)01:32
gnarfaceand if you look on the forums, you'll see most the stuff that was popular, people have provided alternatives to01:32
freemI don't wan't to forbid stuff, honestly01:32
gnarfacerefracta_noob: yea, because they require it and couldn't even feasibly be patched not to01:32
gnarfacerefracta_noob: lots of stuff has been rebuilt "--without-systemd" where possible01:32
freemI just wonder why the busybox package is not more nicely integrated, I thought there would other reasons than lack of willpower01:33
gnarfacefreem: essentially the thing is these are pacakges that implicitly forbid other packages that had no good reason (in the devaun maintainer's eyes) to be forbidden01:33
freemand manpower (comes with willpower)01:33
refracta_nooboh wow plymouth made the list... is there an alternative to that? I was hoping to dig into bootsplashes later01:33
gnarfacefreem: there could be security or stability reasons related to why debian might have avoided building in certain options.  i've seen that a few times.01:33
freemlike, avoiding @options in the busybox crond ? I think politics might be there too01:34
gnarfacerefracta_noob: i don't know anything about plymouth specifically, but in theory you could try porting forward an older pre-systemd version if such a thing can still be found...01:34
freemtbh, busybox code is a lot more cleaner than gnu's one01:35
gnarfacei'm sure a lot of talk about this has happened on the forums, but i don't know where specifically:
gnarface(despite the weird domain name that's the official forum)01:35
freemhonestly, I doubt it. busybox is a strange tool01:36
freemI mean, it's hard to get a hand about how to use it. I did, because I messed my system too many times01:36
freemI think it's not about bad will, at least, currently01:37
filipdevuanhow do i open files like this in terminal using wine?? the file is called diablo III.exe when i type wine diablo iii.exe i get cannot find xx/.diablo.exe01:37
freemfilipdevuan, you need to feed the filename to wine01:37
gnarfaceif it's in the default wine prefix, just be in the directory with it that should be enough01:38
freemwhich means, for example, "# wine ~'/.wine/drive_c/Program Files/foobar/Diablo.exe'"01:38
filipdevuanbut the file name is diablo iii.exe01:38
filipdevuanwith spacebar01:38
gnarfaceyou can escape spaces with \ or you can just quote the filename01:39
gnarfacewine "diablo iii.exe"01:39
freemthe # makes all the stuff a comment, to avoid stupid copy/paste01:39
gnarfacewine diablo\ iii.exe01:39
gnarfaceit will be case-sensitive though, because your filesystem is01:39
gnarfacefyi though you should probably be launching diabloIII from the launcher01:40
gnarfacenot from wine directly01:40
freemyou have no way to be certain of that, gnarface :) but it's probable yes01:40
gnarfacewell it depends on whether the client is broke this week in wine or not01:40
freem(about case-sensitiveness)01:40
filipdevuanwell im just trying to run diablo 3 under optirun01:41
filipdevuanbut ill just optirun then01:41
gnarfaceer uh01:41
gnarfaceoh my01:41
gnarfaceyea that's a mess, i don't know the trick01:41
gnarfaceyou might have to ask in #winehq01:41
filipdevuanill have look with xD01:41
gnarfaceor, somewhat ironically, even #nouveau01:41
freemI second01:41
gnarfacefilipdevuan: check the winehq wiki page for diablo3 too, there were some weird workarounds specific to D3 to dodge their server-side watchdog thing that i don't know if they're still required or not01:42
filipdevuanok thx01:43
gnarface(apparently it heavily objects to seeing stuff reporting itself as a i386 with more than 3.5GB of ram)01:43
gnarfacefor some reason that doesn't bother WoW or SC2 though...01:43
gnarface dunno why01:43
freemgnarface, do you know any pointer to a doc that would help me to make busybox a clean alternative to all applets it provides? Like, less?01:44
freemgnarface, it's names PAE I think01:44
gnarfacesorry freem, i don't really know anything about busybox other than it's annoying01:45
freemannoying? Well, I thought the same, at 1st01:45
freemnow that I know more the posix tools, I thinks it's a lot useful, but yeah, manpages could help01:46
nacelleyeah you have to use PAE to get over 4GB on 32bit, period, but you usually have 512mb or more taken up for address space of the bus devices and such01:46
nacelleit works well01:46
gnarfacenacelle: yea, the thing is Windows can't do that, so it triggers some anti-cheat protector no the D3 servers.  or at least used to01:46
freemnacelle, you need PAE to use more than 4Gio per process, IIRC, just that?01:47
gnarfaceyou need PAE to even be able to address more than 4GB01:47
nacellewindows has a PAE mode01:47
gnarfaceif you don't have a 64-bit chip01:47
gnarfacedoes it really?01:47
gnarfacedid it when D3 launched?01:47
nacellemost likely01:48
gnarfacethis is all about a specific thing in the D3 server cheat protection stuff01:48
gnarfacei think they called it "warden" ?01:48
freemthere was a windows XP 64 bit after all01:48
nacelleits probably been in since win2kish/p4 era01:48
nacellewin2k had a lot of stuff in it01:48
nacellelike it supports symlinks01:48
nacellewho knew?01:48
nacelledont get me wrong01:48
nacellewindows is still a piece of software designed to run windows apps and thats it :-)01:48
freemI think windows kernel must be nice, it's the windows distro that sucks01:49
gnarfaceoh hmm, i'm looking at my scripts and i don't appear to be using it anymore.  maybe this is outdated01:49
gnarfaceWINEARCH="win64" WINEPREFIX=$WINEPREFIX WINEDEBUG=-all wine Diablo\ III\ Launcher.exe >/dev/null 2>&1 &01:49
gnarfacethis is working now01:49
gnarfacebut i used to have to launch it like this:01:49
gnarface#WINEPREFIX=$WINEPREFIX LD_PRELOAD="" __GL_THREADED_OPTIMIZATIONS=1 WINEDEBUG=-all setarch i386 -3 wine-development Diablo\ III\ Launcher.exe >/dev/null 2>&1 &01:49
gnarface(the "setarch i386 -3" is the magic part there)01:49
freemone-liners should be forbiden!01:49
gnarfacewhy?  they made all our displays widescreen, so why not use it?01:50
gnarfacethat one barely goes more than half way01:50
freembecause I can't read one without turning head, which imply a useless loss of energy, that's not green :}01:50
freemmy life is dedicated to reducing efforts01:51
freembut, widescreens are nice01:53
gnarfacefair enough, to each their own01:53
freemthey allow to read more files at once, if those have decent formatting rule01:54
freemnow, I can't understand why random people love widescreen01:55
freemtheir GUIs takes much heights, leaving lot of empty space on widths?01:55
freemfor geeks, ok, some of us know how to use that efficiently, but normal people with normal softwares?01:56
freemalso, I'm not sure what a desktop environment is, really.01:58
Xenguyfreem: Graphical environment, icons you can click etc.; without it, you are at a virtual console02:03
Xenguyi.e. command line02:03
freemXenguy: sure, but, it is usually a set of tools, too, and I would like to know, which one are considered in a minimal DE?02:06
XenguyCan you elaborate, or expand on that?02:07
XenguyOr give an example?02:07
freemhardly. After all, I don't understand people.02:07
freemPeople seems, to me, to say a DE must have a set of mandatory tools02:08
XenguyAny specific tools you need?02:09
freemnot really. In practice, I'd like to build a package that depends on a tiling WM and those minimal tools, to help people think differently02:10
freemI'm already using that kind of setuf, of course, but, I'm not really a normal user...02:11
XenguyThe 2 main graphical environments are Desktop Environments (DE), and Window Managers (WM, which are more light-weight graphical environments)02:11
freemthis is wrong02:11
XenguyHow so?02:11
freemWM are parts of DEs02:11
freemthey are not againts, they are parts02:11
XenguyThat can happen02:11
XenguyIn any case, I'm trying to remember a tiling WM that seems decent...02:12
freemon the other hand, all DE I know are based on floating WM02:12
freemXenguy, i3?02:12
XenguyI think that's the one02:12
XenguyI haven't tried it yet, but I see good reviews02:13
freemthis one is quite popular (I'm using it, so I may be biased) but, it is just a single tool02:13
freemif you wan't my opinion on it, just ask02:14
XenguySure, I'm interested02:14
freemyou'll have direct replies from a real user :)02:14
freemWell. My opinion is that it's nice because with the right tools, you can forgot the mouse.02:15
XenguyI like that (prefer keyboard-driven software)02:15
freemUsing workspaces is then a lot more natural, same for command line02:15
XenguySo no time wasted moving windows around, which sounds good02:16
XenguyI like Vim too, so keyboards FTW y'know02:16
freemexact, all tiling wm will give you optimal screen usage02:17
XenguyI assume it uses a lot of hot keys?02:17
freemonly the ones you define02:17
freemunlike that bloatware of vim02:17
freemstill, I3 is not perfect02:18
XenguyYou can pry my vim out of my cold dead hands02:18
freemHey, I use vim as my main editor02:18
XenguyWhat are i3 cons?02:18
freemthe focus, for example02:18
freemI think focus move could be easier02:19
freemalso, the status bar is not configurable enough. It's hard coded, and so can only be high or low, not right or left02:20
filipdevuantoday i managed to run gothic 2 tes iv oblivion and diablo 3 under wine on devuan i cant believe it devuan is incredible whoever made it is amazing02:20
filipdevuanon linux mint i had problem with just gothic 2... windows 10 couldnt run gothic 2 and oblivion properly. devuan runs them all02:21
freemfilipdevuan, you know, devuan is only a fork02:21
filipdevuanwhat does it mean fork02:21
freemit's a branch of another FOSS project02:21
refracta_noobEeri Kask's patches for TWM made it my favorite WM - plus I actually think it's a feature that it lacks EWMH because it allows me to do nice things like make youtube windows of an arbitrary size and I do this all the time to have music or video on while working on stuff. I know TWM's like 30yrs old but I actually love it so much I got interested in Refracta and by extension Devuan so that I could02:21
filipdevuanso what does it mean then?02:21
refracta_noobroll my own installer for my preferred set up.02:21
freemmint is a fork of ubuntu, which is itself a fork of debian.02:22
freemdevuan is a fork of debian02:22
filipdevuanmaybe tahts why they killed ian murdock02:22
filipdevuancuz hes made debian too amazing system02:22
freemhaha, maybe yes, but he was not the inventor of that way of thinking02:23
filipdevuanwell yeah i think death by hanging himself up using hoover cable is death deserved for crap person... ;/02:24
freemFOSS allows to just do what you wan't and share it. Knowledge is more precious than gold, but onlly when it's shared02:24
freemthe important thing is now why he died, but what we remember him for.02:25
XenguyHear hear02:26
XenguyRIP Ian02:26
XenguyHe created an amazing system02:26
filipdevuanyeah i think somebody killed him i dont think he killed himself02:27
* gnarface sighs02:27
freemhe was the guy which invented the system I used to learn how an almost POSIX system work with nice doc I'll be grateful forever02:27
freemIan Murdock is not that dead02:27
XenguyHe was pretty wasted the night he died, so I wouldn't doubt that suicide could have happened02:28
filipdevuananyway im testing diablo 3 now and it works great fucking hell <3 im so suprised that everything works so well on devuan so far...02:28
gnarfaceXenguy: i think it was "assisted" suicide02:28
gnarfaceor the video wouldn't have mysteriously disappeared02:28
Xenguygnarface: That's chilling to contemplate02:28
XenguyI wouldn't have thought it likely; is there some evidence to suggest this interpretation?02:29
gnarfacefilipdevuan: grats :) glad you got it working02:29
freemWhat I know, is that anyway, the foundator of the DFSG won't die until long02:29
refracta_noobp.s. kudos on an excellent fontconfig configuration out of the box - Ubuntu never seemed to get this right but this worked perfect on my 4K TV right out of the box02:29
gnarfaceXenguy: there's some suspicious circumstances involving the dispute with his neighbor that were never explained02:29
Xenguygnarface: (Should we take this to #debianfork, or ...?)02:29
filipdevuanyeah its amazing how everything works even gothic 2 iv had problems with running gothic 2 propperly for nearly 5 years on different OSES and it appeared to run perfectly on devuan and this is amazing02:30
filipdevuandiablo 3 works as well it seems like to me everythings gonna work under wine on devuan...02:30
filipdevuanwhats really funny is that i get more FPS in diablo 3 on devuan than i had on windows 10 this is just incredible02:33
filipdevuani mean devuan doesnt use 50% of my ram memory it only does 10% xD02:33
filipdevuanoh my god devuan is like heaven in the computer to me at the moment i wonder how runescape 3 NXT gonna be xD damn02:33
filipdevuanthe performance i get from this game on devuan is so much nicer and more satisfying than from windows 10 im just so excited02:34
refracta_noobthink it would be possible to bring fbsplash over to devuan, from gentoo? it's a bootsplash without systemd
tsuggsIs there a devuan image for chromeveyron embedded systems? There used to be one in jessie but I cannot find one for ascii.02:39
refracta_noobmight this help?
buZzfilipdevuan: fun fact, thats what Valve realized when they first started porting games to linux02:42
buZzrefracta_noob: does plymouth depend on systemd?02:43
refracta_noobbuZz, unfortunately it would appear so02:43
buZzhmm, i do have in apt? but only a X11 renderer?02:44
buZzoh wait, thats from debian :P02:44
refracta_noobUbuntu had this weird thing with X,
tsuggsrefracta_noob: it might, thank you for sending!02:47
filipdevuanyeah they do run faster on linux02:47
refracta_noobI noticed on Ubuntu, at least with 16.04 and later, scheduler performance or something seemed to take a crap... it was awful and not just because of the Gnome jvm memory leak02:48
gnarfacetsuggs: yea i dunno what's up with the missing chromeveyron image for ascii.  someone was just in here yesterday asking about building their own but i didn't realize there was one for jessie.  maybe they know in #devuan-arm02:49
gnarfacerefracta_noob: doesn't grub have native boot splash graphic support?02:50
filipdevuanhow to run an app from desktop in terminal???02:50
tsuggsgnarface: didn't know there was a specific channel for it, I'll join and maybe ask later02:50
filipdevuanwhat command is it ;P02:50
refracta_noobah nice, I didn't know it had that02:51
filipdevuanoh ok using optirun02:51
gnarfacefilipdevuan: you mean you want to run a shell program from a desktop icon or something?02:51
filipdevuanyeah used optirun it works ;P02:51
gnarfaceoh alright02:52
gnarfacejust fyi most terminal programs will accept a command to run at open02:52
gnarfaceyou could just make an icon to run that whole command02:52
gnarfaceor wrap it in a bash script and make an icon for that instead02:52
Xenguyor create an alias02:52
gnarfaceoh, yea or an alias i guess02:52
XenguySome folks just want to go minimal; I think I may be one02:53
filipdevuanlove to all devuan and linux people i cant believe how smooth and nice my games are on devuan oh my god is this even real? XD02:53
XenguyWe're all wondering the same thing : -)02:54
filipdevuanthanks to xrogaan who helped configure my gpu drivers for almost whole day lol02:55
buZzfilipdevuan: pay it forward, help a local friend get devuan ;)02:58
filipdevuanyeah only if they wanted linux... ;p02:58
buZzhehe 'help' them while they're not watching02:58
buZzno, dont do that ;)02:58
XenguyYou know you want to03:00
tsuggsOut of curiosity, does devuan stick to the whole main/contrib/nonfree repo structure debian has?03:24
freemAFAIK, yes03:25
xrogaanYes! Sweet, sweet internet points.03:33
freemI meant, xrogaan huh?03:35
xrogaancouples lines above your AFAIK.03:36
freem02:58:38 <filipdevuan> yeah only if they wanted linux... ;p03:37
freemthis ^03:37
filipdevuanyeah ;d03:37
filipdevuanim trying to run runescape 3 nxt now but i get these errors03:39
filipdevuan0183:err:d3dcompiler:compile_shader HLSL shader parsing failed.03:39
filipdevuanprimus: warning: glXSwapBuffers: respawning threads after context change03:39
freemseriously.... why do I feel at home on irc, not Carint about being late at work...03:39
freemrunninig it natively?03:40
filipdevuannah, through wine okay im donwloading some d3dcompiler_43 now03:40
filipdevuanlets see if it changes something03:40
freemwine does not always work03:41
filipdevuanyeah got it03:41
xrogaanfilipdevuan: IIRC there is a linux client for runescape03:41
filipdevuanwell for me so far it always does with every game i managed to get gothic 2 working tes iv oblivion diablo 3 now runescape 3 ntx windows client its just AMAZING!03:41
freemhum, did you try the game in a VM?03:42
filipdevuanand diablo 2 works now too!!03:42
filipdevuanoh i just put that command winetricks d3dcompiler_43 and it now it works ;)03:42
filipdevuanits so easy now when i have my gpu drivers!! :P03:42
filipdevuanyeah :D03:42
filipdevuani use search engine called and its erally good03:42
freemI'm glad to read someone being a happy linux gamer :)03:43
filipdevuanim downloading path of exile right now this is i think my last game to test if it runs well under winehq03:43
filipdevuanoh yeah im really happy especially that diablo 3 works much better than it did on windows 1003:43
filipdevuaneffects are nicer its smoother and id say graphics are better as well 3d is better i think03:43
freemI"m a now casual you know, I don't have the hardware to play03:44
filipdevuani just cant believe how everything works better on devuan03:44
filipdevuanbut i know why because windows 10 processes used 50% of my ram memory devuan uses only 10%03:44
freemfrom my memory, windows comes out of the box full on03:45
filipdevuanwindows 10 processes is a joke03:45
freema very good windows admin can make it quite efficient03:46
filipdevuanthis is why i left windows 10 because of some bullshit processes same thing happening on linux mint and linux fedora03:46
xrogaanI might want to try running on wine to get to starcraft203:46
filipdevuanyeah diablo 3 works amazing and works too apart from news feed from diablo 3 and friends list03:46
xrogaanI don't understand why there ain't a native linux client yet. They have one for mac.03:46
filipdevuanbut diablo 3 works so far and im glad that it does03:46
freemat a time, I knew by heart the windows processes, and could divide by 2 the CPU usage03:47
filipdevuaneffects look much cooler than on windows 10 theres more colours i think i dont know i think linux has better 3d rendering stuff here03:47
freemwindows is not bad03:47
xrogaanmicrosoft is03:48
filipdevuanwell everything works better on devuan for me so far03:48
filipdevuanevery game and OS itself03:48
filipdevuanits unbelievable!!03:48
freemdefaut install of it is bad, and windows admins are not good03:48
xrogaanwindows adds ton of overhead where distros in general do not.03:48
MinceRwindows is malware03:48
freemyou are wrong03:48
MinceRno u03:49
buZzno u03:49
xrogaanin a sense, windows needs to make sure its integrity is sane, while on linux that's the job of the admin.03:49
filipdevuannah its true that windows adds too many useless processes i dont need for example microsoft search process and antivirus to play a game03:49
freemwindows aims to be easy to use, sacrificing lot of things03:49
MinceRthe current version of windows spies on its user and downloads and executes code from microsoft without asking the user03:49
xrogaanMinceR: that's not malware, that's a service.03:50
filipdevuanyou know whats funny my friend called me today hes had update downloaded from microsoft on his windows 7 and guess what it killed his pc it crashed and i had to come bring him windows 10 iso dvd lmao03:50
buZzMinceR: they worked really hard on that msdos shell and you should feel blessed of have been given the blissfull joy that was the interaction you had03:50
MinceRoh, right03:50
freemwindows needs goods admins to avoid rotting03:50
MinceRwhen microsoft does it, it's a "service"03:50
MinceRdespite the fact that the industry has fought against such "services" for decades03:50
xrogaanyeah, it's doing it for you :^)03:50
freemunix is easier to admin, sure03:51
MinceRbuZz: the msdos shell is long gone, now it's a reimplemented vms pretending to be msdos :>03:51
freembut it needs learning03:51
filipdevuani cant believe that devuan is free and its 5 times better than windows 10 it does everything better, it is quicker, laptop is quieter, battery lasts for 3-4 hours while windows 10 only lasted for 1,5 hours, games run smoother and its great system !!!03:51
MinceRvms pretending to be msdos pretending to be cp/m03:51
golinux#debianfork?  Would be a better place for where this is going.03:52
buZzgolinux: ah, live a little :P03:52
freemfilipdevuan, then, don't try other distros, you may be suprised03:52
* golinux grumble at the wasted bytes03:52
filipdevuaniv already tried ubuntu mint fedora and devuan is much much better than them!!!03:52
xrogaanreally now?03:52
freemtry voidlinux03:52
golinux#debianfork please.03:53
xrogaantry slackware03:53
freemif you feel good enough. For both.03:53
freemok, golinux03:53
freemand sorry for noise03:54
filipdevuanand devuan make my laptop heat less!!03:54
freemhum... filipdevuan I'll explain you some things on #debianfork about that heat?03:55
* bozonius2 sticks his head in, briefly, reads back through the IRC log and sees that people are having successful installs... and decides to do one himself03:55
buZzcheck out 'powertop' , pretty cool stuff03:56
filipdevuanyeah im saying truth everything works better here than on windows 1003:56
filipdevuangames dont crash03:56
bozonius2"everything works better here than on Windows 10"03:56
buZzglad your experience has been so glorious filipdevuan :)03:56
bozonius2NO:  actually, everything works better than Windows, period.03:56
filipdevuanwhen i played diablo 3 on windows 10 and pressed alt tab then it took like 3-5 secs to get me to system devuan does than in 0,5 sec03:57
* bozonius2 will be back after attempting an install, if it does not kill him of course03:57
filipdevuanwell i never had such a good experience with linux mint and fedora maybe because they have everything preinstalled and its harder to configure stuff03:57
filipdevuanyeah it is glorious indeed i just cant bbelieve what this distro does that i couldnt get on mint ubuntu and fedora lool03:58
filipdevuanim also glad that i decided to ditch systemd distros this is why i installed devuan03:58
filipdevuanwasnt expecting all of my fav games from windows gonna work like that on here LOL!03:59
buZz:P latest versions of wine are awesome03:59
buZzthe 2.x and higher, support -so- much03:59
filipdevuanyeah actually devuan makes me happy finally i feel like im having OS that i want to have ;p03:59
filipdevuan;d its a shame that i didnt get to run playonlinux at the end xD04:00
filipdevuani should get devuan t-shirt for myself xD04:00
buZzand a sticker for the back of your screen? :)04:00
filipdevuansticker for my bed actually xD04:01
filipdevuani wanna sleep with devuan hahahah04:02
buZzyou can print your own bedsheets,
buZzseems the devuan stickers on unixstickers are gone :(04:03
filipdevuananyways my last game i wish to run is path of exile but im pretty sure ill get it running!!!! gothic 2 and diablo 3 runs so path of exile should too!!! sorry im not dev or anything like that i just decided to ditch windows for linux and then found out stuff about systemd so i decided to ditch systemd distros so then this is how i came here!! and im glad!!04:03
freemusing linux for games is a start as another, I guess04:03
filipdevuannah im just bored so i install every windows game that i liked and they all work lmao04:04
freemI, personnally, love this system because I can play with it's mechanics04:05
filipdevuani know that with devuan my laptop gonna run for long but with windows you never know what to expect04:05
filipdevuani think windows 10 was turning my laptop into zombie04:05
filipdevuananyways its time to sleep thank you all!! tommorow its another great day of enjoying devuan experience, good night ;p04:06
freemsounds like a nice fanatic04:08
freemsee you later04:09
buZzprobably just young ;)04:09
xrogaanwhich file system would be best on a drive that contain large files?04:15
buZzi tend to just use ext4 for anything, and bcache if i need that ext4 to be faster (combined with a fast ssd)04:19
gnarfacexrogaan: depends really on just how large of files you have but xfs has the largest max file size04:29
gnarfacethere is a big chart on wikipedia you can use to compare features like that04:29
gnarfacesome benchmarks highlight that it's also the only multi-threaded filesystem so it makes a good choice for file servers04:30
xrogaanSize is in in the gigabytes.04:41
xrogaani'll take a look at that wikipedia chart if I find it :)04:42
gnarfacean exhaustive list04:47
gnarfacemax file size isn't everything, but xfs also has really good figures for snapshotting and resizing04:48
gnarfaceas far as journaling filesystems go it's ancient though so it's not known for as good of behavior with regards to power failures during writes04:49
gnarfacepresumably if you're using this for something important though you have a battery backup04:49
bozonius2will devuan be able to boot from a /boot partition that is ext4 on LVM?   Or is this masochistic?05:30
bozonius2i.e., is this a recipe predicted to fail, or is it possible and I should go ahead and try it?05:32
bozonius2actually, I have a more basic question.  How do I change the partitioning?  I thought I was using expert graphical mode, so I expect it would allow me to make this type of change.  I'm not seeing how to do it.06:39
* bozonius2 is cursed06:39
bozonius2I'm using ascii net install 64 bit.  I select Manual but I see no way to do the sorts of things I'd expect in "manual" partitioning like deleting and resizing partitions06:45
bozonius2What is bozonius doing wrong?06:45
SuicideJunkieI was using the jessie version of that and did the partitioning, but that was a while ago.07:00
SuicideJunkieI'll try out the ascii install tomorrow.07:00
gnarfacebozonius2: the partition tool in the installer will let you delete and add partitions but will not let you resize existing partitions.  a better solution would be to resize using gparted from a live image07:01
gnarfaceno idea about ext4+LVM07:01
gnarfaceprobably though, as long as it's not an ARM device with crippled u-boot support07:02
gnarfacebut there might be a trick to it07:02
bozonius2I guess where I am stuck is that I can't figure out how to avoid the configuration it presents, even though I am requsting "manual" config!07:09
bozonius2I don't expect any of the "guided" options to offer me a chance to delete or resize partitions.07:09
SuicideJunkieyou don't have an option to delete the existing partitions?07:09
bozonius2Not that I've found so far, no.07:10
bozonius2Is there one?07:10
bozonius2I see an option that lets me erase the partition, but not one that does delete07:10
SuicideJunkieErase as in wipe the contents, but not the structure?07:10
bozonius2Like I expected to be dropped into a bare-bones gparted or cfdisk sort of UI.07:11
bozonius2And I could craft the entire disk arrangement from scratch.07:11
bozonius2(I suppose the shell escape might work, but I figured "Manual" should do something like this)07:12
SuicideJunkieI'm reasonably sure I got such a thing when I first installed, but I was starting with a blank HDD out of the box.07:12
bozonius2gnarface:  This is a VM for now.07:12
bozonius2This is the rough equivlent of blank HDD, SuicideJunkie07:13
SuicideJunkieYou have existing partitions, do you not?07:13
bozonius2In a brand new VM?  No.07:13
SuicideJunkieHow did you get an erase partition option with no partitions?07:14
bozonius2Did you also use net install (Maybe that's the issue, though that would be weird)07:14
SuicideJunkieIt was the net install for jessie07:14
SuicideJunkieBut other than that, yeah.07:14
bozonius2I chose expert graphical install, and when I get to partitioning, I select "manual"07:14
bozonius2that option presents me with a pre-configured partitioning scheme, which I don't like.07:15
bozonius2But I don't see a way to work past it07:15
bozonius2the only other options are various guided modes (for LVM, etc)07:15
gnarfacebozonius2: not the guided mode.  there's a non-guided manual mode, but i forget what it's called.07:16
gnarfacebozonius2: it should give you a blank slate.  i guarantee deleting partitions is an option too, but maybe it's not super intuitive (mabye it's in the same menu where you choose partition type?)07:16
SuicideJunkieWhat menu options do you get when you doubleclick the last partition listed?07:16
gnarfaceif it was a fresh VM from a blank disk image you should not be seeing precreated partitions unless you had run the guided partitioner once already without creating a fresh empty disk image07:17
bozonius2Same as for the other ones, I think.07:17
SuicideJunkiepartition type = none?07:17
bozonius2ok, let me try this again.  Gimme a moment... it doesn't take long07:17
bozonius2(have to shut down another VM to allow ascii VM to run)07:18
bozonius2first menu:  I choose Advanced Options07:18
gnarfaceyep, then expert mode07:19
gnarfacei never choose graphical but i hear it works almost as well as the plain ncurses one these days07:19
gnarfacethey won't provide different options unless there is a bug though07:19
gnarfacegraphical expert mode and regular/ncurses/text expert mode (not sure what it's labeled in there) is all the same options just less eye candy07:20
bozonius2sorry, lost the mouse for a moment07:20
SuicideJunkiePixellated progress bars and such.07:20
bozonius2then I choose graphical expert mode07:20
bozonius2then language, keyboard, yada yada07:21
bozonius2now, do I need to load any additoinal modules perhaps?07:22
bozonius2(none of rthose listed look like I would)07:22
gnarfaceprobably not but really i forget what is in there these days07:22
bozonius2idk... fuse modules?07:23
gnarfacethe big blind spot is you're doing this in a VM ... maybe there is some tools specific to it in there you want but i can't imagine any of that would affect the primary problem you're having with partitioning07:23
bozonius2I'm checking cfdisk and select init system (just for s&g)07:24
bozonius2sorry I could not test this during RC07:24
gnarfaceit has been heavily tested and the only thing i remember people coming back with in a VM was some problem mixing LVM and RAID under the default partitioning scheme07:25
bozonius2in expert or guided mode?07:26
bozonius2so I get to partitioning, and it gives me 4 choices:   Guided using whole disk, Guided for LVM, Guided for Encrypted LVM, and just plain Manual07:27
bozonius2(btw, not sure why they would attempt RAID in a VM.  LVM is useful though for dynamic disk space)07:28
gnarfaceif this isn't about the installer and just about getting the job done, you could always pre-partition the disk image and just accept it from the installer07:29
gnarfacethen we dont' have to figure out what's happening07:29
gnarfacebut i do understand the desire to do so07:29
bozonius2tbh, I am trying to use VM install to simulate how I might do this on real HW someday...07:30
gnarfaceyea, that was your first mistake07:30
gnarfacebecause installing in a VM is nothing like doing it on real HW07:30
gnarfacebut that's beside the point now07:30
bozonius2I hope to have a test box here soon, but that doesn't have the same HW config as this box07:30
gnarfacelets see07:30
gnarfacepick the "just plain manual" one07:31
bozonius2Partitioning choices should be the same in VM and real07:31
gnarfacei'm not saying they're not07:31
gnarfacewhat i'm saying is07:31
gnarfacedon't use any of the "guided" ones07:31
bozonius2Ok, Manual, as I did before...07:31
gnarfacewhat do you see?07:32
gnarfaceit should be NOTHING07:32
gnarfacethere should be an empty list of no partitions07:32
bozonius2and it gives me a partitioned disk07:32
gnarfacethat suggests your disk image was already partitioned07:32
gnarfacehow did you create it?07:32
Jjp137oh that's not a partitioned disk; that's just a device (sda)07:32
gnarfacenot with dd certainly?07:32
Jjp137try double-clicking it07:32
bozonius2no... wait!07:33
gnarfacegoodness, don't partition your running disk07:33
gnarfacemake sure it's actually the VM disk image... lol07:33
bozonius2for a moment, I thought I was recycling a VM disk from another system.  But I now rmember I created it fr4om scartch07:33
Jjp137the VM is new and shiny and spotless right?07:33
Jjp137and the disk too?07:33
bozonius2so it should, in theory , be blank07:33
bozonius2shiny and spotless07:33
gnarfacemaybe the [VM image creation tool] pre-partitioned the disk image "for your convenience?"07:34
bozonius2I've never heard of such a thing07:34
gnarfacewhat partitions does it list?07:34
Jjp137this is the graphical install, right? if so, is there like an arrow to the left of sda that you can click on to reveal a list?07:35
bozonius23.8GB LV home, 2.9GB LV root, 16GV LV swap, then the partition table listing07:35
bozonius2Jjp137, there IS an arrow, but it is already "open"07:35
Jjp137okay so there are partitions07:35
bozonius2hold on, screen shot?07:36
bozonius2or no?07:36
Jjp137yea if you want07:36
gnarfaceyes. screenshot to imgur...07:36
gnarface"LV" ... is that from LVM?07:36
gnarfacei don't use LVM, either07:36
bozonius2yes, "Logical Volume"07:36
gnarfaceso this disk image has logical volumes already?07:36
gnarfacemaybe i should fire up the latest installer...07:36
gnarfacebut i'm wondering if whatever disk image tool you're using gave you a fully bootable disk image...07:37
bozonius2which disk image tool would that be?07:37
gnarfacei dunno.  what did you use?  all i know is that last i checked, this page should be blank07:38
bozonius2all vbox does is create a shiny new virtual HD07:38
gnarfacemaybe you should show me a screenshot because i don't know what i'm talking about07:38
bozonius2(I agree. it SHOULD be blank)07:38
bozonius2hold on07:38
bozonius2  (it's slow, sorry)07:39
KatolaZbozonius2: just click on one of the partitions07:40
KatolaZyou'll get a meny07:40
KatolaZwhere you can delete/format/change the partition07:40
gnarfaceyea, what he said.  from this screenshot, the ones labeled "primary" and "logical"07:40
gnarfaceignore the LVM stuff above that... i think vbox did actually create those07:41
Leanderor just delete the image file on your hard drive, and create a new one07:41
bozonius2Yes I get "Use as:  Don't use", "Erase Data", "Done partitioning."07:41
bozonius2No "Delete" option07:41
gnarfacethere you go07:41
Leanderthere's no way vbox created any of that stuff07:41
gnarface"don't use"07:41
gnarfaceit actually makes more sense in the ncurses mode, because the menu title is "use as"07:41
gnarfaceor "Use as..." more specifically07:41
gnarfaceso then "... don't use" is intuitive07:41
bozonius2gnarface -- I get asked what type of fs I want07:41
gnarfacecan you just hit the delete key or something?07:42
bozonius2the last option, however, says do not use the partition07:42
gnarfacewhat happens when you set it to "don't use" then?07:42
bozonius2(thanks to all of you for your patience)07:42
gnarfaceit might actually not be able to manage LVM07:42
gnarfacemaybe that's the issue07:43
bozonius2I get the menu I just described.  A list of FS type options, the last being "Do not use this partitoin"07:43
bozonius2then why would it offer LVM?07:43
gnarfaceit can create them...07:43
gnarfacebut wait07:43
gnarfacewhat if you do change to "configure the logical volume manager" ?07:43
gnarfacecan i see a screenshot of that panel too?07:44
Leanderyou have to go to "Configure the Logical Volume Manager" and remove the logical volumes07:44
gnarfacethank you, Leander07:44
bozonius2right, I tried this also07:44
bozonius2it first asks me if I want to keep the current layout, yes or no07:44
gnarfaceobviously no07:44
bozonius2so I chose "no"07:45
bozonius2and it takes me right back to the same view as I posted on imgur07:45
gnarfacethey're not gone?07:45
bozonius2sorry, no07:45
Leanderthen say "yes"07:45
Leanderbecause you've apparently not reached the LVM menu07:45
bozonius2ah, now it offers me a chance to delete something07:46
gnarfaceLeander: he's got a fresh vbox image and he's just trying to delete everything on it and start over07:46
gnarfacei don't know how to do that with LVM apparently..07:46
Leanderno, it's not a fresh image07:46
gnarfacehe insists vbox created it07:46
gnarfacehow sure are you about that bozonius2?07:47
bozonius2So, up to this point, I have to actually SAVE the partitioning I DONT want in order to delete partitions?07:47
gnarfacefile name check?07:47
KatolaZhold on bozonius207:47
Leandervbox doesn't do any partitioning for you07:47
bozonius2that makes little sense to me07:47
gnarfaceheh, just crazy enough to work...07:47
bozonius2Leander: correct!07:47
KatolaZdo you need to preserve the existing partitions and enlarge them?07:47
Leanderso this image you are using, it's not a new one, you've used it for something already07:47
bozonius2here is what I think it is -- I have 1500MB ram allocated to the VM, so the swap is sized alike.  It needs a tiny bit for /boot, the rest becomes /07:48
bozonius2(I could test this a bit furthr, but it seems that is how it decided the layout)07:48
bozonius2(I certainly did not!)07:48
Jjp137you might have accidentally chose to use an existing image file when creating the VM07:48
Leanderand the manual partitioning on debian/devuan is quite ridiculous this way, you end up confirming time and time again that yes, you confirm this or that, before you can see the next screen07:49
bozonius2KatolaZ:  I never created those partitions!07:49
bozonius2Jjp137:  For a moment I thought perhaps I did just that.  But that is not the case.07:49
bozonius2In fact, this is the first VM I have ever attempted to do all LVM07:49
gnarfacei wonder if you would have the same problem with a qemu image...07:50
gnarfaceworth trying, maybe07:50
bozonius2remember, gnarface.   I AM BOZONIUS.07:50
bozonius2If it can break, I will.07:50
bozonius2I have the worst luck07:50
bozonius2no, really I do07:50
Leanderyou can also create a new image in vbox, and use it as your main hdd, and see that indeed, images created by vbox are blank07:50
Leandermy only guess at the moment is that you're confused by something in vbox which makes you believe you are using a blank hdd image while you aren't07:51
bozonius2are you being sarcastic about debian/devuan having a mickey mouse partitioning scheme, or are you poking fun at my situation?07:51
bozonius2what puzzles me so much is that I had to actually SAVE the damn partitioning scheme that I DID NOT create in order to delete partitions!!!!????07:52
bozonius2that is so... idk.  How does one say it in technical terms?07:52
Leanderyes, the partitioning tool is very old and quite weird07:53
bozonius2ok, thanks.07:53
bozonius2just to clarify.07:53
bozonius2I wasn't sure if you thought I really blundered07:53
Leanderno I'm really agreeing about that07:53
gnarfacei'm leaning towards blaming it on vbox07:54
gnarfacebut i don't really know07:54
bozonius2Go ahead.  Oracle owns VBox.  So givem the raspberries07:54
Leanderby the way, did you create this VM from scratch? or did you clone a previous one?07:55
bozonius2gnarface:  I can pretty much assure you that VBox images, unless they've been used in a different VM somewhere, are just like the real HW disk drives you buy at Frys07:55
bozonius2I just created this VM tonight, with its very own, private 8GB virtual hard disk .vdi07:56
bozonius2no other install has touched it.07:56
bozonius2I've been here the whole time, never leaving my PC.07:56
bozonius2No eyes have set upon my PC this evening except mine.07:56
bozonius2And the Russians do not even know I own a PC, much less my true identity.  So it is not them either.07:57
bozonius2Leander:  thank you.  I actually thought for a moment (when I was saying uh-oh and omg) that I had done just that.  But then I recalled I created it from scratch.07:58
bozonius2originally, I considered recycling a VM from another distro07:58
Leanderone crazy possibility is that when you created this 8GB file, it ended up physically on your disk on a previously formatted image (because image creation tools do not blank the disk)08:00
bozonius2Tell you all what: I will recreate the VM from scratch again just to make sure I am not pissing away your collective time and effort needlessly.08:00
Leanderby that I mean, a previously formatted and deleted image08:00
gnarfacemake sure you use a new file name08:00
gnarfacebozonius2: ^08:00
Leanderbozonius2: which CD image are you using for installation?08:01
bozonius2Leander:  I've never tried to create a VM that was completely LVM based.  So even if such a coincidence occurred, it would still be a non-starter.08:01
bozonius2(but good thinking; I thought that also)08:02
bozonius2this time, I'll create a 12 GB HD08:02
bozonius2just to see if it makes any differnce08:02
bozonius2btw, just fyi -- I am using pre-allocated virtual HD, not dynamic.  I always do that these days because it speeds up VMs quite a bit08:05
bozonius2Leander:  net install of ascii 64 bit08:06
bozonius2afk 1 min08:06
LeanderI got the expected blank image08:09
bozonius2Leander:  Are you doing advanced options, expert graphical install also?08:11
Leandernope, let me try that08:11
bozonius2different this time...08:14
bozonius2only thing I changed was disk size and ram (1G this time)08:14
bozonius2(disk 12GB)08:15
bozonius2now I don't get that list of partitions!08:15
LeanderI still can't reproduce08:15
Jjp137okay I have a silly theory as to why it showed up previously :p08:15
bozonius2because I am bozonius, of course...08:15
Jjp137first, your VM has 1536mb of RAM, right?08:16
bozonius2the first one did, yes.  This one has 1GB08:16
bozonius2but go ahead...08:17
bozonius2not enough ram?08:17
Jjp137because with that, you may have initially picked "Guided - Use Entire Disk and Set Up LVM" at first (and maybe forgot about it)08:17
bozonius2too much ram?08:17
Jjp137and you also picked to use a separate /home partition08:17
bozonius2that IS possible08:17
bozonius2I did08:17
Jjp137as part of that, it has to write the changes to disk08:17
Jjp137then you probably had to cancel the install at some point08:17
Jjp137and then some time later, you come back, go through the whole thing again, and find that your previous changes are still there08:18
bozonius2I thought that only happens when I hit "Finish Partitioning and write chnges to disk"08:18
Leanderwait... you did that before?08:18
Leanderno wonder!08:18
Jjp137nope with that particular option, it asks "Write the changes to disk and configure LVM?"08:18
bozonius2I need to find a new line of work08:19
Jjp137and you probably said yes08:19
bozonius2oh shit08:19
bozonius2now I remember, yes08:19
Jjp137lol, mystery solved08:19
bozonius2OK everyone.08:19
bozonius2The bozo show is over for tonight08:19
Leander*tatata* *tsing*08:20
Jjp137yea I did some experimenting in a VM and could actually reproduce the basically the same screenshot that bozonius2 posted earlier08:20
Jjp137down to how big each partition is (which is why I asked about the RAM)08:20
bozonius2Maybe there is still time for me to become a Unitarian minister...08:21
Leanderso yes, the partitioning tool of the installer is very old, and writes changes to disk very early08:21
bozonius2Jjp137:  Yes, I figured that part out too.  The swap size was identical to the ram size.08:22
Leanderwhen you want to do anything with LVM, it writes down the partition table, creates the LVM pv and vg, before you can start configuring the LVs08:22
bozonius2Right, I know that.08:23
bozonius2but because all that was done transparently the first time I tried (with the guided with LVM option)08:23
bozonius2so I wasn't paying attention to that08:23
bozonius2but it does sound like I need to be wary of the installer, generally08:24
bozonius2I think that is what you guys are telling me.08:24
Leanderit sounded like it was your first time booting the image, so... thanks Jjp137 for that08:24
Jjp137yep when it asks to write changes to disk, you should stop and think :p08:24
bozonius2but still, I would STILL expect a way to delete partitions if I am in "expert" mode, with no bizarre logic path to get to it, such as saving the partition table just to get to a menu where I can actually delete partitions08:25
bozonius2that part I find very clumsy.08:26
Leanderyes it could be o much better08:26
Leanderand even worse: you can create LUKS volumes, but you can never remove them08:27
bozonius2If the UI is based on the notion that an expert is driving (even one who does not "think" when asked to save something), then it should provide adequate support around that.08:27
Leanderuntil you reboot08:27
bozonius2because it brings bad LUK?08:27
Leanderoh... uh... the door is right there, sir08:27
bozonius2Jjp137:  No, not "should" stop and think, more like "better" stop and think.  There may be no way to undo.08:29
Jjp137heh yea08:29
bozonius2w/r/t the installer at least.08:29
bozonius2Normally, I DO watch those kinds of things.08:30
bozonius2Still, during an install process, I am used to being given plenty of options to modify, change, repeal, replace, update, modify, and reconnoiter any which way.08:30
bozonius2well, OK, maybe that is exaggerative08:30
bozonius2but I've not felt this frustrated looking for a "delete" option since...08:31
bozonius2oh, I don't know... Redhat 4.1?08:31
bozonius2thanks gnarface, Jjp137, Leander and others for your assistance08:32
Leanderyou're welcome08:36
barnyardwhat do you guys think about wayland08:51
gnarfacenp bozonius2, glad you got it figured out10:03
filipdevuanis there something wrong with pulseaudio??12:23
KatolaZjust almost everything12:29
debdogask poettering12:31
Wonkaa) Poettering, b) nobody knows12:31
filipdevuanwho is poettering xdd12:31
Wonkathe guy who crufted pulseaudio and systemd12:32
filipdevuanohh lol12:32
filipdevuanso its the same person12:32
filipdevuanso do u even use pulseaudio or something else???12:33
Wonkaplain alsa12:33
filipdevuanif im gonna delete pulseaudio packages and install plain alsa would it affect games i installed under wine like they wont turn on??12:33
filipdevuani dont think so you know cuz its just sound card but just curious12:33
filipdevuani mean i dont wanna crashes lol12:34
filipdevuanhm,m i have both pulseaudio and alsa installed i see12:35
debdogpulseaudio does not work without alsa12:35
debdogit's just another layer between the progs and the audio hardware12:36
filipdevuanright... so im confused if i should really delete pulseaudio??12:36
debdogor alsa, to be precise12:36
debdogwell... that's something you'll have to decide for yourself12:37
filipdevuanwhy is pulseaudio bad, does it slow performance or spy you???12:37
debdogfor me personally, it's because pulseaudio takes over alsa and blocks direct access for non-PA-progrs12:38
filipdevuanand whats this??12:39
debdogthe basic idea behind PA might not be that bad but it's implementation is terrible and selfish12:39
debdogwhat's waht?12:40
filipdevuanwell i have a read about it but now im excited about my graphics card working and games under wine12:40
debdogI am not aware that the wine project removed support for alsa.12:41
ttrPA vs plain alsa is personal choose - PA is software layer to decode and mix sound. Some apps will not even work w/o PA and I found esternal (USB) cards beeing way better supported on PA :)12:42
filipdevuanoh right yeah im gonna get an audio interface at some point but not for apple or windows but for linux12:44
filipdevuanbut im not familiar with sound on linux at all12:50
xrogaanpulseaudio is way too useful to remove.13:05
xrogaanI never really understood how alsa worked.13:05
g0zzyJust trying Devuan for the first time, but having installed with wired eth0 i'm now using just wireless. Problem is a big hang "waiting for lock on /run/network/ifstate.eth0" at boot time. Any ideas?13:05
xrogaanbefore pulseaudio was a thing, alsa was a pain in the butt to get it to work properly.13:06
xrogaang0zzy: check /etc/networks/interfaces13:06
xrogaaneth0 is wired13:07
xrogaanyou want to reconfigure that to point to the wireless interface13:07
filipdevuanokay my last game to run path of exile will be downloaded in a minute im gonna configure it to work properly13:07
filipdevuanbut today is new season in diablo 3 so im gonna play it tonight :D13:08
xrogaanI meant /etc/network/intefaces13:09
xrogaanno 's' to network13:09
xrogaang0zzy: also check out man interfaces13:09
g0zzyxrogaan: Sorry - sudden power off. Surely i shouldn't have to be manually configuring /etc/network/interfaces?13:11
xrogaanif your network support dhcp, there is one line or two to write or comment13:12
g0zzyYes, this is a domestic machine so DHCP is normal.13:14
xrogaansomething like `iface wlan0 inet dhcp'13:15
xrogaanand before that: auto wlan013:15
xrogaancheck it's named wlan0 with ifconfig13:16
xrogaanI think.13:16
xrogaanI don't remember, it's been a while since I configured wireless stuff.13:16
g0zzyMy point is, surely this shouldn't be needed normally?13:17
xrogaanNo, it is.13:17
fsmithredg0zzy, is eth0 listed in /etc/network/interfaces?13:17
fsmithredauto or allow-hotplug?13:17
fsmithred(whichever you answer, I'm gonna say 'try the other')13:18
fsmithredare you also using wicd?13:18
g0zzyThe latter13:18
g0zzyAnd - yes i am13:18
ttrif latter than you can comment out all except LO in /etc/network/interfaces13:19
fsmithredgenerally it's not a good idea to use a network manager and interfaces file. They compete.13:19
fsmithredand yes, comment out eth0.13:19
ttrsource /etc/network/interfaces.d/*13:19
ttrauto lo13:19
ttriface lo inet loopback13:19
filipdevuanpath of exile works wine just runs everything goddamn devuan is so powerfukl13:20
g0zzyOK. So what would bring up eth0 if no wireless?13:20
xrogaanfsmithred: how do you get network systemwide with a manager?13:20
ttrthis is my contents of it, wifi and wired (and other ones) works ok - cnx is done by wicid, and kvm/libvirt/docker are doing their ornw magic for their stuff13:20
ttrg0zzy: wicid also13:20
fsmithredxrogaan, good question. I think you would just need to configure interfaces and not use any nm.13:21
ttri think in default, if you use wired, it will disconnect wifi13:21
g0zzyOK so wicd would bring up eth0 if no wireless?13:21
fsmithredttr, I've seen both behaviors on different machines (maybe different versions of wicd)13:21
ttrfsmithred: it's settings in preferences13:22
ttr(would post screenshot, but too lazy to convert to ascii :D13:22
fsmithredthanks. I'll look again, 'cause a friend currently needs both.13:22
* g0zzy going to reboot to see if that's cured the hang13:23
fsmithred(wireless to the router and wired between laptop and desktop)13:23
fsmithredg0zzy, ctrl-c might kill that process13:23
g0zzyYay! it did13:24
fsmithredFTR, 'auto' makes ifup/down control the interface, allow-hotplug gives it to udev.13:26
g0zzyOK - here's the bad news. Turning off wifi and plugging in Ethernet did not bring up a net connection13:31
g0zzy(disconnecting wifi)13:31
fsmithreddoes the wired interface show up in wicd?13:32
fsmithredif not, there's an option in preferences to always show it.13:32
g0zzyYes. I think it might want me to connect explictly13:33
g0zzyCan probably live with that13:35
fsmithredmy laptop usually is connect with wire, so I have it automatically connect.13:37
fsmithredIf I use wireless, I have to open wicd and connect.13:37
g0zzyYes, that's fine. My client (first to get Devuan) will be using wifi13:39
fsmithredif they're windows refugees, they'll probably be ok with using wicd.13:40
g0zzyThey are indeed13:41
fsmithredI think wicd is a lot easier to use than whatever windows uses for setting up the network.13:41
ttrdepends on settings both can happen automatically13:42
ttri have wired if present, if not look for wifi and connect to those set as autoconnect13:42
ttrso, small paste comming in:13:43
ttrWireless Interface:wlan013:43
ttrWired Interface:   eth013:43
ttr[X] Always show wired interface13:43
ttr[X] Always switch to wired connection when available13:43
ttrWired Autoconnect Settings13:43
ttr(X) Use default profile on wired autoconnect13:43
ttrthis should set up your wired using dhcp, if you need static, you need to edit wired-default profile13:44
ttrand after that, set up wifi profiles13:44
ttr(and on this note I'm out) - good luck13:45
filipdevuancan u pls tell me again how to run .deb file??14:22
filipdevuandpkg install x.deb?14:22
filipdevuank nvm14:24
filipdevuangot it14:24
kitsunenokenjahello, I cannot figure out how to install libhunspell from sid. says not installable. all other deps for firefox/unstable installed fine. any idea how to resolve?16:58
panduhello all, how to install virtualbox-guest-utils in devuan?17:02
pandu(devuan as guest)17:03
unmypandu, enable "contrib" repository?17:07
panduunmy, yes, is it the same way like debian (I mean is it save?) by command: echo deb stretch-backports main contrib > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/stretch-backports.list   ?17:16
unmypandu, deb stretch-backports main contrib wont work?17:23
unmynot stretch, ascii17:24
unmypandu, deb ascii-backports main contrib17:25
xrogaankitsunenokenja: sid is debian, you might want to use the devuan name scheme.17:27
kitsunenokenjaI have it labeled as "unstable"17:32
xrogaanyeah, no idea.17:39
xrogaanwhat do you mean by "not installable"?17:39
panduunmy, thanks it works17:43
refracta_noobwhat's the Devuan way of handling automounting?17:53
saciozHi all18:06
saciozbye all18:09
panduhello all, can we add a ppa in devuan? I want to install adapta theme and when I run: add-apt-repository ppa:tista/adapta, the repply is: Error: could not find a distribution template for Devuan/ascii.      or any other way to install adapta?18:17
golinuxpandu: Devuan does not have ppa18:21
refracta_noobjust clone the github repo18:22
scaniatruckerpandu: Devuan is not compatible with PPA18:22
golinuxIsn't everyone leaving the sinking github ship?18:22
golinuxRegister at to work on your package then build it with d1h for Devuan compatibility18:23
golinuxCan't you just c/p your theme into /usr/share/themes ?18:25
refracta_nooblast count I saw was 30% of the entire site's projects which was a day or two ago18:25
refracta_noobyeah, ~/.themes/ also works18:25
golinuxThose are the ones who are paying attention.  :D18:25
refracta_noobI'm most glad it boosted all these other git sites because I was kind of worried that Github would make itself thru its own popularity a potential point of failure for FOSS projects18:26
scaniatruckergolinux: Adapta theme (from github) requaring compilation18:27
refracta_noobluckily looks like the git page has instructions for compile from source18:28
golinux <<< how to build a pkg for Devuan18:30
refracta_noobdoes devuan have a mastodon hangout?19:01
NewGnuGuyrefracta_noob: It does not19:46
_abc_Slightly off topic: eelo droid free droid
_abc_fsmithred: so did you make anything of my lame v0 alpha shutdown script for persistence?20:46
fsmithred_abc_, nope. Not yet.20:52
fsmithredone thing I might have done differently (or might do) is use the same tests that are used in the live-config scripts. (for parsing cmdline, etc.)20:52
fsmithredand I need to think more about how it fits in with/without persistence20:53
james1138Hello from Indiana. I just switched to Devuan Ascii less than a week ago.22:08
refracta_noobI installed Refracta, based on Devuan yesterday. I like it so far. What'd you switch from?22:09
james1138I was using Ubuntu22:09
james1138Got pissed one time too many with systemd issues22:10
james1138All in all... I like it. Feels fast, smooth and stable.22:11
james1138I do have one question... how do I add debian backport repo?  I liked to use stuff like DVDStyler to make DVD's.22:13
james1138Any way to add repos in general??22:26
golinuxjames1138: The website is a good source for basic information:
KatolaZjames1138: you have the merged backports repos in devuan as well22:29
james1138Sorry. I meant to say add Debian repos such as multimedia added to Devuan.22:29
james1138deb stretch main non-free22:30
james1138deb stretch-backports main22:30
golinuxYou can but at your own risk.22:31
golinuxdmo has not been vetted for unwanted ties to systemd.22:31
james1138I add them to Synaptic but they do not appear when I restart synaptic. Am I doing something wrong?22:35
james1138I do not understand...22:36
refracta_noobyou might have to do a apt-get update22:37
refracta_noobI think there's a button for it in Synaptic but it's been a while since I've used it22:37
james1138I am not a spring chicken... I am a bald grandpa with limits on my Linux skills.  <grin>22:37
james1138I even tried dist-upgrade22:37
golinuxYou need to update sources before you can see ones that have been added.22:39
james1138The "ADD" button in Synaptic does nothing as far as I can see.22:39
james1138No luck with update22:40
james1138I now see the keyring in the system.22:42
james1138The repo does not appear22:43
refracta_noobin Synaptic? I would just try to install whatever you wanted out of the repo to see if it works22:44
refracta_noobwhat's the Devuan way of handling automounting? Add oneself to group 'disk'?22:45
james1138Tried but the item I like to use does not appear in the list. Would only Debian 9/stable stuf be listed?22:47
refracta_noobhm, and you did do a ''sudo apt-get update''?22:47
golinuxYeah, pretty sure he hasn't done an update.22:48
KatolaZyou don't need to add multimedia22:48
_abc_fsmithred: that makes sense, reusing the tests. The current script works fine with at least 2 machines now, i.e. 2 persistence enabled usb sticks made with r2u, no more fuzz with unclean umounts.23:03
_abc_fsmithred: so one should also add fsck at the 'head' in live-boot eventually. The actual command sequence used to umount and sync and shutdown/reboot is clean and could be considered debugged.23:04
fsmithredrefracta_noob, automounting removable drives is usually configured in the desktop settings23:07
fsmithredif you want internal disks to automount, set them in /etc/fstab23:07
fsmithred_abc_, have you checked for newer discussions about this a debian-live mailing list?23:08
_abc_No. I don't want them to automount, I want the live-boot to fsck the media before it mounts it. Only the iso media and the persistence one if used23:09
_abc_if possible, if not, then all usb media presumably23:09
refracta_noobfsmithred: ah so like thru thunar-volume-manager?23:10
fsmithred_abc_, the automount comment was for refracta_noob23:10
_abc_sorry, I'll be quiet now23:10
_abc_Re discussions: I have not checked. Anything interesting worth checking?23:10
fsmithredsettings, removable drives and media23:10
fsmithredI only found that one message about it, which was for squeeze, I think.23:11
_abc_fsmithred: what kind of programs would auto-run on mounted media if so selected in Settings?23:11
fsmithredshould say I only looked at one. I got a bunch of hits. I think I searched for fsck, but I don't remember for sure23:11
refracta_nooboh wow, I'm dim. thank you!23:12
refracta_noobI just now see it23:12
fsmithredpoke around, and you'll find all kinds of interesting stuff23:12
fsmithred_abc_, I don't know - I've never, ever checked that box. Maybe anything with executable bit.23:12
* _abc_ shudders23:13
fsmithredyeah, kind of like participating in glory hole activity with no protection23:13
refracta_noob"Automatically run a program when a tablet is connected" - oh that is awesome...I'm going to use this to start Gimp. This is nice.23:14
_abc_fsmithred: not really, reading up, it has a security mechanism and requires user confirmation
fsmithredoh, good23:15
refracta_noobhow would I run gnome-disks?23:17
fsmithredis gnome-disks installable?23:18
refracta_noobit is, I have it now23:19
fsmithredI've never used it (or not recently). Click on it in the apps menu?23:19
novemberrainjames1138: i had bad experience with changing settings through synaptic23:19
_abc_fsmithred: the redux: if a file exists and is +x in the media mounted, and the option is on, the user gets asked and it is executed23:20
novemberraininstalling, upgrading and removing packages works fine but whenever i touched the setting, things got messed up23:20
james1138Oh! What settings? I like to avoid the same.23:20
novemberraineg. i tried to change the main server to a country specific23:21
refracta_noobbrb, it's not showing in the apps menu, going to log out and try looking for it23:21
_abc_fsmithred: what script/suite of scripts would you recommend to keep $HOME in sync with, on several movable (persistence) and desktop machines?23:22
novemberrainafair there was only one time such change actually worked23:22
_abc_Assume local access23:22
fsmithred_abc_, rsync23:23
james1138Refracta... If reboot does not work - try using Alacarte instead MenuLibre.23:23
_abc_fsmithred: I mean is there a preset menu like thing or such?23:23
fsmithredgrsync if you want a graphical frontend23:23
_abc_fsmithred: with duplicate resolution etc23:23
james1138never mind23:24
fsmithredI'm sure there are other choices, but I use rsync a lot23:24
_abc_I realized that, that's why I asked you ;)23:25
refracta_nooblol, I broke something. I get a grey background when I login now and no desktop... time to just bring over my .xsession and .twmrc I guess23:29
_abc_ok, I have my work cut out, I'll have to learn rsync or another related sync command soon23:46
ChuangTzuHello everyone, golinux sent me here23:48
_abc_ this is worth a read23:48
_abc_ok, thanks for today23:48
golinuxChuangTzu: Greetings!23:50
refracta_noobhm. when I open thunar and click on one of my SSDs it says I'm not authorized.23:50
ChuangTzurefracta_noob: permissions issue with the drive probably23:52
novemberraini'm trying to upgrade from jessie to ascii. update (mostly) works but i get a dist-upgrade error23:55
novemberrain"gnupg : Breaks: python-apt (<= 1.1.0~beta4) but is to be installed"23:55
novemberrainplus two other similar cases, but i can do without the other packages23:56
novemberrainany ideas what's wrong and how to deal with it?23:56

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