freenode/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2018-06-20

gnu_srsBeerbelott: And with policykit-1-gnome installed you can even use synaptic from the menu :)00:02
gnu_srsHi, did you see that a new version of sysvinit is available: 2.90?00:24
ChuangTzuhttps://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/sysvinit-devel/2018-06/msg00011.html00:35
SuicideJunkieWell, good news for me, got the phone updated to Marshmallow and unbricked, so life is good again.01:32
refracta_noobI really want the Purism phone. I'd like to get refracta on it of course.01:36
mmlj4howdy, doodies04:45
tinkeringCan you use systemd with Devuan?05:13
j9myou've come to the wrong hood05:24
Criggietinkering: are you trolling?  cos you're not doing it very well.05:33
gnarfacetinkering: the answer is no.  see the list of banned packages: http://deb.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt05:43
gnarfacetinkering: the reason is technical.  if they could have included systemd, simply as a non-default option, they would have.05:43
gnarfacesome packages that were not removed still have limited functionality05:45
gnarface(where pre-systemd hooks had been removed from their code)05:46
gnarfacenone of that is really by devuan's choice05:46
gnarfaceevery effort has been made to go back to the basic expected behavior of the system from before systemd tried to strategically disallow other init options05:47
gnarface(and temperature, and session management and logging and...)05:47
gnarfaceand for the vast majority of packages it has been a success05:47
gnarfacetry the livecd and if there's something you're missing, ask about alternatives other people are using05:48
gnarfaceit didn't break any of my stuff, for whatever it's worth05:49
gnarface(debian jessie did, however, as did raspbian jessie)05:49
gnarface(whatever their equivalent to jessie was)05:50
gnarfaceoh, yea they did call it jessie05:50
gnarfaceanyway, yea.  systemd breaks a lot of stuff that it's even related to by the second or third degree05:50
gnarfacetinkering: it's also probably worth mentioning that a devuan install with systemd running would be by definition functionally identical to debian... and thereby an entirely redundant waste of time06:03
gnarfacetinkering: so if you were really asking the question as some sort of attempt to litmus test the project for hypocrisy before trying it out, rest assured we'll be happy to help, but everyone here right now is expecting you to just troll out06:05
gnarface(*I've* seen 2 other people make the same mistake before and end up converting, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt for now)06:06
tinkeringNow I feel bad for asking. :(06:26
gnarfacetinkering: if you've got a spare USB key, try out the live image :) maybe you'll like it, maybe you won't06:28
gnarfaceyou'll notice differences but not many06:29
gnarfacethe distro exists primarily for people who experienced unacceptable regressions or behavioral changes with systemd06:32
gnarfaceif you had no complaints about systemd then there's no way to know what you'll prefer06:33
tinkeringI'll probably try it. I don't like systemd that much. It's hard to remember what the names of services are and stuff.06:37
TheBlueWizardwhat's the password for "devuan" account in Devuan Live DVD distro? thanks!06:50
gnarfaceisn't it just also 'devuan'?06:51
gnarfacethe root password is "toor" - i remember that much06:52
gnarfaceyou can reset either password knowing that06:53
Jjp137yea it's just 'devuan' (see: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/desktop-live/README.txt)06:53
TheBlueWizardwhen I tried out the "lock screen", I then yried to get back in, and in doing so I see the login window showing "devuan". I tried several passwords including blank...nothing works. I was forced to power cycle the box heh06:54
TheBlueWizardI see re README.txt...gonna try that now ha ha!06:55
TheBlueWizardOK it works! thanks! gonna go to bed now....06:56
gnarfacenp, peace06:56
* TheBlueWizard notes that while the screen is locked, the ctrl-alt-del keystrokes is completely ignored06:57
refracta_noobbday coming up in July, I'm going to get myself a Devuan hoodie and celebrate 19 years of Linux.06:57
gnarfaceTheBlueWizard: yea, that's off by default now for security. i believe it can still be re-enabled manually06:57
gnarfacei think the disabling of the "ctrl+alt+backspace" control sequence by default in Xorg is a change that predates devuan and systemd07:16
panduhello all, I want to install devuan on my laptop compaq presario CQ42 (the LCD is broken, and I connect it to my sony LED via HDMI) and after boot message it only show abstrak grey display (no desktop). I'm using USB with DD command, and use XFCE live iso. any sugestions?07:20
hollapandu: resolution issue maybe? could you ssh in your broken laptop to run xrand?07:22
gnarfacepandu: yea should be fixable by running xrandr, but this might be difficult without changing some config stuff manually remotely if you can't see the first screen07:24
gnarfacepandu: lots of laptops though, have a trick where you can make the external monitor connector recognized as the first/default screen if you boot it up with the lid closed and a keyboard plugged in07:24
gnarfacepandu: might be worth a try (check your laptop manual)07:25
hollaor some Fn key combo07:25
gnarfaceyea, there may be hints silkscreened on the keys in blue or something like that07:25
panduholla: it's happen in many distro (all manjaro, peppermint, arcolinux, bunsenlabs, etc) only few that success (opensuse, gecko, mint, mxlinux).07:25
hollawow, you surely did some extensive testing there ;)07:26
gnarfacepandu: the distros all have essentially the same software for handling this, so you might have run into bugs but most likely just different defaults07:27
panduyes, because of limited budget here, so I can't buy new LCD for my ten years laptop (it cost almost $100) here :(07:27
gnarfacepandu: if you can figure out what actually, it should be easy to make that change in devuan07:27
hollado you have a second pc or at least a smartphone?07:29
panduyes, I have android phone07:29
refracta_noobif you have another computer you could use to run the Refracta Live image on, you could use Refracta tools to install the Live system to another USB which would then be used to install to the laptop07:29
refracta_noob(Refracta is Devuan-based)07:30
holladoes devuan live have sshd started by default?07:31
hollaif so, you could use connectbot to ssh into your laptop07:32
pandurefracta_noob: you mean this? : http://www.ibiblio.org/refracta/07:33
panduholla: how to do it?07:33
refracta_noobhttp://www.zoyinc.com/?p=2510   - looks like this might work if it's not enabled by default by now07:33
hollapandu: install connectbot? the question is whether your devuan runs an sshd - i'm not sure about that07:34
panduholla: I think ssh not run when startup (I check in my devuan in Virtualbox)07:43
gnarfacei don't think it even starts networking by default07:45
gnarfacei could be wrong07:45
refracta_noobhey fsmithred.07:54
refracta_noobany plans to do any Refracta merch? hats/shirts maybe?07:55
syco_hi11:42
guglicaptrying to debootstrap devuan from arch (using the official debian debootstrap) with this command: 'sudo debootstrap --arch=armhf --foreign --variant=minbase --no-check-gpg oldstable /mnt http://deb.devuan.org/merged'12:25
guglicapit almost works except for some packages like  Couldn't download package libc6 (ver 2.19-18+deb8u10 arch armhf) at http://deb.devuan.org/merged/pool/DEBIAN/main/g/glibc/libc6_2.19-18+deb8u10_armhf.deb12:26
guglicapanyone knows how to fix this? thanks12:26
gnarfaceguglicap: possibly the debian one is still broken12:27
guglicapactually it came to mind as I was writing that to use "jessie" instead of oldstable and that works12:28
gnarfaceinteresting12:28
guglicapbut I can't use "ascii" as the official debootstrap doesn't recognize it as a suite name and thinks it's an install script12:29
gnarfaceheh12:29
gnarfacebummer12:29
guglicapthere must be a way around it tho12:29
gnarfacei can think of a few12:29
gnarfacei vaguely recall someone may have mentioned editing a single file to add ascii to it12:30
gnarfaceif all else fails though you can just install the devuan debootstrap and that should work from debian12:31
guglicapoh it's cool12:31
guglicapso if you list the files owned by the "debootstrap" package it turns out that in /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts there are a bunch of scripts for each release12:32
gnarfacehmm12:33
guglicaplike /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/stretch points to /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/sid12:33
gnarfacehmmm12:33
gnarfacesame here12:33
guglicapso you can just run it like debootstrap ascii /mnt <mirror> /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/sid12:34
gnarfaceon my install here, ascii points to ceres though, not sid12:34
guglicaphuh12:34
gnarfacebut i'm on ceres, not ascii12:34
gnarfaceceres corresponds to sid12:34
guglicapoh12:34
gnarfacebut they're separate scripts in my install12:34
guglicapwhat does the ascii script point to?12:35
gnarfacei just said, ceres12:35
guglicapwhoops yeah sorry12:35
guglicapcan you upload the ceres script to pastebin then?12:36
gnarfaceno, but it appears to be here12:38
gnarfacehttps://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages/debootstrap/blob/a1acc007f5a1de9fae609550f78b836811c1c6cd/scripts/ceres12:38
gnarfaceonly about ~40 lines changed i think12:40
gnarfaceit looks derived from the sid one12:40
guglicapyeah12:43
guglicapthat works12:43
guglicapthank you!12:43
gnarfacecool, no problem12:44
Jayyo guys14:10
Jayis there any info about support/LTS/end-of-life?14:10
igor80hi! congratulations for ascii release!14:30
igor80i realized that my dbus packages where upgraded on march 4th to the debian version 1.10.26-0+deb9u114:31
igor80s/where/were/g14:31
igor80now i got back to the devuanised packages and everything is alright14:32
igor80got the same version as the netinst installer 1.10.22-1+devuan114:32
KatolaZigor80: are you using othe repos?14:32
KatolaZor only deb.devuan.org?14:33
igor80on march, i don't remember which repo it was (auto, pkgmaster) but now it is deb.devuan14:33
igor80everything is ok now14:33
KatolaZok14:33
KatolaZplease stick with that ;)14:33
igor80i wonder if the dbus packages will be upgraded to the 1.10.26 branch14:34
igor80there may be some other people with debian version of dbus14:38
KatolaZigor80: that would be pretty strange, TBH14:38
KatolaZunless they have used non-Devuan repos14:38
igor80ok as i can't remember precisely what i did on march :-)14:39
KatolaZif we have complaints, we will deal with them :)14:39
KatolaZonly solve problems that exist, not those that might exist ;)14:39
igor80so is there a devuanised dbus in sync with 1.10.26 that will pop up?14:40
KatolaZnope14:40
KatolaZI don't think so14:40
KatolaZand if that does not cause problems, there won't be, probably14:41
igor80i understand that dbus is a special case ;-)14:41
KatolaZigor80: if it works, don't touch it14:42
KatolaZ:)14:42
KatolaZdbus has all sorts of implications14:42
KatolaZthere have not been complaints about how it works in ascii14:42
KatolaZ-> don't touch it :)14:42
igor80it worked in both cases but it wasn't really devuan14:43
igor80i came to ascii early14:43
KatolaZigor80: I guess you see what I mean14:44
igor80i suppose14:45
igor80anyway thank you very much14:45
fsmithredan upgrade from stretch to ascii would require a downgrade of dbus14:45
igor80oh I've got ascii-proposed-updates in my sources.list and pinned at 50017:43
igor80that may be the cause of the march upgrade17:43
igor80not sure but ... whatever17:44
igor80just to mention17:44
igor80bye17:44
BeerbelottHello again17:53
BeerbelottFollowing difficulties encountered w/ shutdown/restart from GUI in Devuan Ascii Stable (previsously encountered during beta), I ended up realizing 2 similar packages exist17:54
Beerbelottlibpolkit-backend-1-0-consolekit & libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-017:54
BeerbelottIs there any reason for this?17:55
KatolaZBeerbelott: renaming issues17:56
BeerbelottWell I followed https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=8217#p8217 but all I could see on my machine was the correct consolekit packages installed18:00
BeerbelottI reinstalled libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0 & libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0, since out of any other idea...18:00
BeerbelottShall I switch to elogind?18:00
BeerbelottIt was working flawlessly before18:01
KatolaZBeerbelott: do you also have elogind installe?18:06
KatolaZ~installed?18:06
BeerbelottNope18:11
Beerbelotthttp://paste.debian.net/hidden/4916489f/18:12
BeerbelottThose are the installed packages18:12
BeerbelottNeed to go... again18:18
BeerbelottKatolaZ: Have u got a copy of the paste? I gonna delete it18:19
DeFenderI know this is a long shot but does anyone here have any experience getting a twitch stream going with devuan? Specifically, I'm looking for information on what hdmi capture cards, webcams, and microphones will have the least trouble getting them set up and working, and anything else about the software I may need to know.19:44
refracta_noobit should be the same as Debian19:45
NewGnuGuyDeFender: For hardware compatibility questions in general I recommend you checkout h-node.org19:46
DeFenderProbably, but since Debian refuses to help Devuan users, I can't ask them...19:46
jaromilh-node is distro agnostic19:48
muep_documentation for debian does not care what distro is used by someone who reads the docs19:49
NewGnuGuyDeFender: The only discrete webcam I can personally vouch for is the Gear Head Model WC8500HD19:50
muep_but obviously, people spending their time on support on irc often do care19:50
NewGnuGuyDeFender: As far as webcams go, any that support UVC ought to work out-of-the-box.19:51
NewGnuGuyDeFender: I don't have any experience with hdmi capture cards, unfortunately.19:52
DeFenderI would imagine that if any UVC webcam would work, that any UVC cap card would work too...19:53
NewGnuGuyDeFender: https://h-node.org/webcams/catalogue/en19:54
refracta_noobOBS supports nvidia's hardware capture on GTX960/+ cards I think. IDK if that helps at all.19:58
DeFenderI have a GTX650 and not really looking to upgrade my video card... I'm kinda looking to spend around $100 on a capture card, maybe $20 on a mic and webcam, and otherwise just set up the software20:02
DeFenderbut the info you guys have already given me is much more useful than what I've found previously. Thanks.20:03
sixwheeledbeast^I wouldn't think you would run into any problems with hardware known to work on Linux/Debian and OBS.20:03

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