freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2018-06-22

refracta_noobgetting a frustrating possible bug in jessie with nvidia proprietary driver - for some reason, my xorg.conf in /etc/X11/ isn't respected and I have a weird zoomed in (scaled?) viewport despite the explicit resolution declared in my xorg.conf00:36
refracta_noobthe screen section is generated by nvidia-settings, using my desired settings, and while I get the weird panning at first login, if I open nvidia-settings and click 'Apply' it gives me the desired mode00:38
refracta_noobso it doesn't really make sense why my settings in xorg would produce undesired behavior00:39
filipdevuanhey iv installed devuan using mate desktop and can't see option set brightness which i have in xfce by default help pls? :(00:39
refracta_noobI think I'm just going to snapshot this install and move on to the ASCII release of Refracta00:40
fsmithredfilipdevuan, which brightness in xfce? The desktop background?00:47
refracta_noobthe DistroWatch review notes that there's no sound applet in the tray - I'm not sure if it works with xfce, but I use Volti for an audio applet/indicator with stalonetray in TWM and although I have to click preferences to turn on the use of media keys, it does easily recognize my media keys which was the main thrust of that complaint it seemed02:25
RedSoxFan07Hi folks. Debian guy here. Just wanted to ask a question. Does Devuan use the Debian repositories? Or does it repackage the software?02:34
refracta_noobI'm just a user but I'm pretty sure that where needed Devuan repackages a software if it required or depended on systemd - otherwise I don't think they change it from the Debian version but someone should correct me if I'm wrong02:35
filipdevuanhey iv read something that eu wants to ban free software??02:35
RedSoxFan07refracta_noob: Okay, cool. Thanks!02:36
syco_filipdevuan, lol02:36
filipdevuani dont remember where i read this i think iv had e-mail like that but cant find it i must find it again02:36
RedSoxFan07filipdevuan: Yeah, I heard about that. Just another example of politicians who are people-savvy instead of tech-savvy02:37
syco_filipdevuan, maybe trump wants to ?02:37
refracta_noobRedSoxFan07: no problem02:37
filipdevuanblame microsoft for that :P02:37
filipdevuanthey bought whole github so i believe all scripts codes and everything from devs belong to them right now and now they wanna kill competition and have another monopol02:39
refracta_noobThey voted for it affirmatively.02:39
refracta_noobthe MEPs02:39
filipdevuanbecause they got paid by microsoft02:40
filipdevuanwhen i told to my friend about ian murdock 'commiting suicide' by hanging himself he said they were microsoft who killed him02:41
filipdevuanim pretty sure that MEPs were promised big money for voting yes02:43
golinuxPolitics to #debianfork please.02:45
filipdevuanbut well i never used any github or gitlab in my life apart from few days ago when i started, but i dont understand why devs like to put everything to public to websites like github... its such a bollocks to me.02:45
filipdevuanim pretty sure most of people use github or gitlab because they havent got other choice, i dont think that github or gitlab are free softwares websites anymore anyway02:46
filipdevuangolinux: yeah going there now sorry!!02:49
xrogaanare there people on beowulf right now?03:25
xrogaanI would like to upgrade, but I am a bit queasy about it.03:25
fsmithredxrogaan, there are a few people on beowulf, but I'd suggest only doing it if you want to report to package maintainers as things get devuanized.03:30
fsmithredheads is on beowulf now03:30
xrogaanwell, I make use of backports to get more up to date software.03:31
xrogaanbut not everything can be found on backports03:32
xrogaanI can't sleep, so I wanted to pass time. Pretty stupid idea.03:36
xrogaanis there a way to check the status of beowulf?03:38
fsmithredadd beowulf sources and run a lot of apt-cache search/policy <package>?03:39
fsmithredjust don't install or upgrade when you've got that enabled03:40
fsmithredthere's a package search site -
xrogaanhow does the maintainer checks on things?03:43
xrogaanI mean, will we get a systemd free beuwolf status? ie. sane to use.03:45
xrogaanif everything is automated, it should be fine.03:52
xrogaantesting is merely a version bump, right?03:52
fsmithredmaybe a 'sane to use' statement when there's a beta or RC installer iso03:58
cirujadigitalhello people, why now "systemd is evil"?06:36
stuttgartcirujadigital: there are many reasons not to use systemd outside systemd being evil, but the main reason systemd is evil is because random pieces of software are making up hard dependencies to systemd with the intent to force other init systems out of the market.06:50
stuttgartcirujadigital: systemd has this influence on other packages because Redhat wants it that way and they are in charge of several pieces of software used by almost all linux distros around.06:51
cirujadigitalI'll read you stuttgart...06:52
cirujadigitalI understand about the dependencies. The issue that was raised was that the separate packages did not receive as much support or it was more complicated to articulate their operation. This is a strength for systemd.06:55
cirujadigital This seems to be true, what do you think of it?06:55
stuttgartWhat do you mean by separate packages?06:56
gnarfacewhat's wrong with it being more complicated?06:56
golinuxThe appropriate channel for this discussion is #debianfork.06:57
golinuxPlease take the troll there.06:57
cirujadigitalThe more complicated the problem is, the greater the effort and the more people involved. This is clear.06:58
cirujadigitalhey golinux !! im not a troll for not think like you!06:59
cirujadigitalim using devuan acsii...06:59
cirujadigitalmore respect, please.06:59
cirujadigitalstuttgart, The more complicated the problem is, the greater the effort and the more people involved. This is clear.07:00
cirujadigitalcentralization saves resources, even if it also saves opinions and freedoms.07:01
golinuxcirujadigital: You're not convincing me.07:04
cirujadigitalabout it?07:04
golinuxIn any case, this philosophical discussion does not belong on a devuan support channel.07:05
cirujadigitalgolinux, Well then don't participate in it... or maybe you haven't thought about it and you can't participate.07:06
cirujadigitalI ask why they think it's bad systemd because I want to know about technical, real issues. Not to be told, as a nickname here suggests, that "sysmted is evil".07:08
gnarfacethen you will continue the discussion in #debianfork07:09
cirujadigitalAs long as we don't have any real knowledge, we're gonna look and act like a bunch of fans. Who choose and install devuan by faith07:09
cirujadigitalin my case installs devuan devuan for convenience, because it saves 50mb of startup and with its commands I can manage the networks, which in systemd I can not do and I do not want to learn again.07:11
golinuxHere you go:
cirujadigitalseems good opinion golinux07:16
golinuxThis discussion still belongs on #debianfork07:18
golinuxI hope that helped to clarify things for you.07:19
cirujadigitalgolinux, Unfortunately, so far the opinion of the link is not very clear. Is it good or bad that distributions are standardized?07:42
gnarfacedo you know what a false-choice dichotomy is?07:45
cirujadigitalI know what a dichotomy is, but there's no false choice here. There are possible paths that can be developed. golinux07:55
cirujadigitalIn fact, golinux, we have no power and we choose nothing. hehe. This is real07:58
cirujadigitalI'm going to channel #debianfork, golinux. I don't want to disturb your beliefs with any more thoughts. As you mentioned to me, this is the channel for those who have already made a choice, not for anyone who wants to know more about what they use or why they do it.Either way, I use devuan and I'll stick around.08:05
cirujadigitaltanks for the link.08:05
TuorI installed Devuan on my laptop, because all tests in my VM did well. I run it for about 1.5 days. I had to switch back (Ubuntu 16.04 -> KDE Neon). Why: In the beginning all was fine. after ~8h of work, plasma (KDE) begun to freak out. Some things stoped working, some things had graphical bugs. It begun with small bugs, and with time going on it got worse. At the end I could not switch between windows, I could not start any programs and even to shutdown I08:54
Tuorhad to use my virtual terminal (ctrl+alt+f1). This laptop is my production laptop (and my only laptop). I could not afford to dig and search for the problem. I did take an image of the complete SSD and restored my backup (Ubuntu). In my company multiple persons are intrested in using Devuan (Desktop and Server in the later run). I can't realy report a bug for it, because I can't tell what's the problem or what is responsible for the problems. What should I08:54
gnarfacesee if you can replicate the problem with a different WM maybe08:57
gnarfacethere could be bugs in KDE or bugs in the graphics driver only KDE trips08:57
gnarface(KDE has a specific history of this recently, it's not happening to everyone though)08:57
gnarfaceif you can reliably reproduce it, file a bug report about it08:58
gnarface(you may discover someone already has done so and posted a workaround)08:58
Tuorgnarface: I can reproduce it, but *only* on my hardware (not in a VM).09:21
gnarfaceTuor: could still be driver-specific.  there are known issues.09:26
KatolaZTuor: maybe you have a RAM issue?09:26
KatolaZ(random thought)09:27
gnarfaceyes, it could possibly be a symptom of hardware failure too - just based on the vague description09:27
gnarfacethat's TWO good reasons to see if you can try it with another piece of hardware (of a different brand preferrably)09:27
gnarfacebut it's really worth looking up known issues09:27
gnarfacethis might be as simple to fix as disabling compositing or upgrading the kernel09:28
gnarfaceTuor: also you can run memtest on the system ram just as a sanity check09:29
gnarfacei'm pretty sure there are known issues with plasma and nouveau drivers currently09:32
gnarfaceso i'm leaning towards blaming this on KDE09:32
gnarfacei'd really like to see a different WM tested first09:32
xrogaanmy udevd might have crashed12:42
xrogaanto properly create a live desktop usb, would all I need to do be: dd if=devuan_ascii_2.0.0_i386_desktop-live.iso of=/dev/sde1 bs=4M; sync12:45
gnarfaceno, you probably want the device (sde) not the first partition (sde1) and i've had problems using high bs sizes on writes, also noted that with usb flash devices it didn't make anything actually faster12:47
gnarfacefor reads it would but for writes it probably will make it slower actually12:47
gnarfacethough it would depend on the device12:47
xrogaanI got an error with /dev/sde12:48
gnarfacedo you have write permission?12:48
xrogaanwriting error: no space left12:49
xrogaanunder root yeah12:49
gnarfacebut you don't get an error to sde1?12:49
xrogaan> 1053818880 bytes (1,1 GB, 1005 MiB) copied, 0,992445 s, 1,1 GB/s12:50
xrogaanwhich is weird12:50
xrogaan(how can USB be that fast?)12:50
gnarfacea trick of the virtual ram12:50
gnarfaceer, whatever it's called12:50
gnarfacefilesystem caching12:50
gnarfacenot sure why it's different though12:51
gnarfaceare you sure the device works?  you have the right path to the live file, right?  if= exists?12:51
xrogaanso the files are on the drive, but I don't know if the drive is bootable.12:51
gnarfacedouble check12:51
gnarfaceit won't be, if you didn't overwrite the previous partition but just dd'd the image to the first partition12:51
gnarfacethat won't work12:51
xrogaanshould I delete the partition (if that's possible) then try again with dd?12:53
gnarfacedd should overwrite it unless something is physically wrong with the device12:53
gnarfaceit shouldn't care about partition tables12:53
gnarfacethis is really weird behavior12:53
gnarfacetry if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sde and don't specify bs12:54
gnarfaceor, specify bs=51212:54
gnarfacei've had problems with bs=4M12:54
gnarfacefor writes12:54
gnarfaceeven bs=1M may be more reliable12:55
gnarfacenot all usb flash keys were created equal12:55
xrogaanudevd backtrace happened when I tried to dd in /dev/sde the first time12:55
gnarfacethat happens when you plug it in?12:56
xrogaanI'll try with the /dev/zero thing12:56
xrogaanwhat do you mean "what happen"?12:56
gnarfacenevermind, you answered me12:56
gnarface"sde: p1 size 2058176 extends beyond EOD, truncated"12:57
gnarfacei'm not sure what that's about12:57
gnarfacei'm not sure that's ok either12:57
gnarfaceif the /dev/zero thing doesn't work, maybe try re-hotplugging it12:57
Leanderyou could try a different port12:58
xrogaanmaybe it's a 1GB thumb drive masquerading as a 2GB?12:58
gnarfacecould be a kernel bug12:58
gnarfacecould be hardware failure12:58
gnarfacecould be a connection problem12:58
LeanderI also sort of remember USB sticks whose firmware would block access to the MBR, many years ago12:58
gnarfacedid it used to work, xrogaan?12:59
gnarfacei wonder also if something else may still be accessing it13:00
gnarfacei didn't think dd would care about that either but i could be wrong13:01
xrogaandev zero without bs seems to not throw errors13:01
gnarfacehow sure are you that when you used "if=devuan_ascii_2.0.0_i386_desktop-live.iso" you were in the same directory as that file and that was the exact correct name?13:03
xrogaan'cause it got written to the partition?13:03
gnarfaceoh hmm, you're sure it actually did?13:04
gnarfacei guess it did say it found data to copy13:04
gnarfacedefinitely bs=4M is killing it then13:04
xrogaanwill dev/zero fill the device with nothing?13:04
gnarfacedon't use anything bigger than 1M13:04
gnarfacei've seen it with some usb keys before myself13:04
gnarfaceprobably you'll also find that bs=512 (the physical block size) isn't any slower for writes13:05
stuttgartxroogaan: linux will cache writes to your drive and you might have pulled it out before things were actually written. If you want to make sure everything is on your flash drive add a "sync" command. i.e "dd if=file.img of=/dev/blockdev && sync /dev/blockdev && echo DONE".13:07
xrogaan1006632960 bytes (1,0 GB, 960 MiB) copied, 333,056 s, 3,0 MB/s13:08
xrogaaniso is too big13:08
stuttgartremember MiB is based on 1024B per KB while MB is the old term and people/programs may or may not mean 1024B per KB. Storage manufacturers for instance love to sell 1TB drives that don't actually have 1 trillion bytes of storage.13:11
gnarfacexrogaan: maybe you could try the minimal-live image instead?13:12
stuttgartIf your drive is an "1GB" drive, the iso may be slightly too big.13:12
xrogaanno, it was as a backup system for my father who unplugged his windows machine because "it didn't make noise"13:52
xrogaanso the windows machine wouldn't start anymore13:52
xrogaanbut it got resolved13:52
xrogaanI can't use a minimal, I need a full system.13:52
xrogaanbut since it's for online banking, I'm not even sure a linux distro would do13:53
xrogaanwell it does work actually.13:55
fsmithredxrogaan, you need a live linux that's less than 1GB and has a browser?14:06
xrogaanThere are bigger usb around, but way too big for the job.14:15
xrogaanI can use those if needs be.14:15
fsmithredyou could use a refracta iso or miyolinux iso or one of the other derivatives14:15
xrogaanis firefox up to date?14:16
xrogaan'cause if it has some old version of that browser, it won't matter.14:16
fsmithredrefracta jessie isos still work for banking here14:16
fsmithredI think ascii has 52.x-esr14:17
xrogaanSee if it were me I wouldn't care. But my father is old and has a "piece of shit computer" kind of mentality.14:18
xrogaanSo first impressions are important :)14:18
fsmithredwell, if all he needs is  a browser, you could give him a window manager with an easy and obvious way to start the browser, and he'll be impressed with the speed14:19
xrogaansince when can't we just do `wget -c ''` ?14:22
fsmithredremove the /download14:22
fsmithredshit, I should update those isos14:22
xrogaanrefracta8.3_xfce_i386-20170304_2347.iso: HTML document, UTF-8 Unicode text, with very long lines, with CRLF, LF line terminators14:23
fsmithredI download like that all the time14:23
xrogaanmaybe because I masquerade my wget as a firefox14:24
fsmithredweird that it thinks the iso is html14:25
xrogaanmy suspicions is that sourceforge detect wget and do a no-bs download14:25
xrogaanbut if you go with a browser, it shows you ads.14:25
fsmithredmaybe use curl?14:26
xrogaanthis is my wgetrc:
xrogaan'cause some website don't like wget14:27
xrogaanI should use --no-config with sourceforge then14:27
fsmithredyeah, that sounds like it'll worki14:28
xrogaangoing to try refracta if he annoys me again. Thanks.14:30
xrogaanHe just argued with me that unplugging the computer as it is starting (and working) isn't bad because software engineers are smart. I didn't point out that he came to me for help because he did that and his computer got toasted. ¬.¬14:39
* xrogaan throws table14:39
fsmithreddid you tell him the engineers are smart enough not to pull the plug?14:40
xrogaanbut what if in the unlikely event of a power outage?14:41
xrogaan(that he did 3 times in a row)14:41
mmlj4I would schedule a power outage for him on Thursdays14:45
fsmithredwell, that's what journaled filesystems are for. They usually work, but not always.14:47
fsmithredis dad a gambler?14:47
xrogaanno, no. He just knows better than you.14:56
golinuxxrogaan: Get your dad a UPS. Which of course only works for a short time.  Won't protect against extended outages16:50
xrogaanhe pulled the plug to forcefully reboot the computer16:52
fsmithredsolder the plugs so he can't pull them out16:56
xrogaanuh uh19:15
d9867ebI need to set up my own DNS server. I chose to use BIND9. However I get the error "' has no address records (A or AAAA)". I am using Devuan ascii.19:45
d9867ebmy /etc/bind/zone/domain.db file
d9867ebmy named-checkconf -zj output:
d9867ebplease ask for more information if you need to know more help me. thanks19:45
abcabc__bind has good support in #networking d9867eb20:00
d9867ebok thanks20:12

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