freenode/#devuan/ Sunday, 2018-07-01

filiphi00:03
cynicfmhi00:11
cynicfmhi00:16
cynicfmcan u see my messages ?00:23
fsmithredyeah, you're here00:24
cynicfmoh okay :).00:25
bozonius2grub-customizer02:18
bozonius2I'm looking around in the repos for it; reviews indicate it might be helpful tool02:18
bozonius2a helpful tool02:18
bozonius2(sticky keyboards!)02:19
bozonius2(fingers that don't do what they are supposed to!)02:19
bozonius2(hot weather!)02:19
bozonius2anyone know anything about grub-customizer?02:19
bozonius2or is that a "sissy" way of doing grub?02:20
nacelleyou probably meant to say "novice"02:21
nacelle:-)02:21
bozonius2grub, especially grub2, nearly requires a pilots license to use it02:22
nacellebut being a novice to grub configs... is probably OK02:22
nacelle-shrug-02:22
bozonius2I've done some grub2 configs by hand...02:22
nacelletry before grub :-)02:22
nacellelilo, or silo, etc. depending on architecture02:22
nacelleand so many other bootloaders02:22
bozonius2lilo and elilo are no longer in support (since 2014 I think)02:23
bozonius2grub1 is no longer02:24
bozonius2(people will laugh at you if you still use grub1)02:24
nacelleI was being sarcastic02:24
bozonius2I know02:24
bozonius2's ok02:24
nacelleperhaps I have a pilots license and am not aware02:25
bozonius2I deserve it, probably.02:25
bozonius2747?02:25
* nacelle wonders if someone will lend a plane to find out02:25
* bozonius2 thinks,maybe, a "test" plane?02:25
bozonius2I guess I could try building the tool myself.  Mainly to see what it can do.02:26
bozonius2mainly what I need is a way to chainload a syslinux boot from grub where all of the file systems are on lvm02:26
bozonius2(I'm pretty sure grub2 can do it)02:26
eyalrozWhere do I file a bug about mis-behavior of non-Devuan-specific code?08:56
eyalrozSpecifically, add-apt-repository?08:56
golinuxI see that's from Ubuntu.  Ubuntu is not Debian.  ymmv09:03
golinuxUbuntu packages are not supported by Devuan.  So there is no valid bug to report.09:04
golinuxYou are welcome to debug (if that's possible) and maintain it for Devuan.09:06
golinuxWhy can't you just edit the file directly?09:06
golinuxeyalroz: ^^^09:07
eyalrozgolinux: It's a package available when using the Devuan mirrors,09:07
eyalrozso it should be supported, shouldn't it?09:08
eyalrozI'm working on a fix (it's a script after all)09:08
eyalrozbut I still need a place to report this09:08
golinuxI just searched pkginfo.devuan.org and nothing came up for add-apt-repository09:08
eyalrozweird...09:08
eyalrozThe package is: software-properties-common09:09
Jjp137add-apt-repository seems to be part of the software-properties-common package, which comes from Debian (file list: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/all/software-properties-common/filelist)09:09
golinuxIn any Devuan repo09:09
eyalrozgolinux: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/ascii/ascii/software-properties-common_0.96.20.2-1.html09:10
golinuxYou're faster than me!09:10
golinuxIf you're sure it's a bug, submit it to bugs.devuan.org09:12
golinuxYou might want to see if anybody else can confirm before doing that.09:13
golinuxDid you do a clean install?09:13
eyalrozgolinux: Yes09:13
eyalrozIt's a clear bug, that script tries to determine which kind of distro you're using, and it can't match Devuan09:14
eyalrozso it throws an exception09:14
golinuxMaybe you could request upstream that they add Devuan.09:14
eyalrozThat's a possible resolution for the bug, yes; but someone needs to make sure they get the URL templates right./09:15
golinuxOtherwise we'll probably have to maintain that package. unless the problem is outside the script.09:16
golinuxI'm not savvy enough to know much about how that's set up.09:17
golinuxI'd wait to see who shows up here for advice.09:18
eyalrozgolinux: For now, I've filed https://git.devuan.org/devuan/devuan-maintainers/issues/3310:49
romoHey guys, is there a way to prevent the screen from blanking due to inactivity in ascii minimal live?14:16
gnarfaceprobably14:20
gnarfacein X?14:21
gnarfaceor at the console?14:21
gnarfacein X this should work until it's restarted anyway: xset dpms 0 0 014:22
romognarface: I don't believe minimal live even comes with anything graphical-related(?). I need the console-screen to "stay with me" while I run things like dd.14:23
gnarfacethere is a way to set it there too, i just don't remember how off the top of my head14:25
debdogxset dpms 0 0 014:25
debdogxset s off14:25
debdogor something alike14:26
debdog(dpms are the timings and s is for the screensaver)14:26
gnarfacei thought xset only works in X14:26
gnarfacei could be wrong14:26
gnarfacehe wants to disable it at the virtual console14:26
debdoghmm, true14:26
gnarfacei think it may be different depending on whether he's using a framebuffer driver or not14:27
gnarfaceand i think the raspberry pi does something entirely of it's own14:27
debdogsorry, should have read the full story first14:28
romodpkg reports no xset. I'll check what exactly I'm bootin into there...14:28
romoAll right, so far I found boot options: std-toram, which equals /live/vmlinuz initrd.img boot=live noautologin vga=auto toram. I somehow doubt this is of any use?14:32
gnarfacevga=auto might do something14:33
gnarfacefiguring out what driver your video card is using there would probably help more14:33
gnarfaceit's probably also worth mentioning that most PC BIOSes do have a way to change the default DPMS settings14:34
gnarfaceif yours has such a setting, you can most likely change it there without needing to touch the system configs14:34
debdogmayhap this helps? https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/8056/disable-screen-blanking-on-text-console#3204314:36
romoOh, I plan on using this as a carry around system. I was hoping there would be a way that isnt depandant any specific gpu or bios setting (or any hardware for that matter) it runs on.14:36
gnarfacewell i'm sure there is14:37
gnarfacei just thought the BIOS might be an easier way out14:38
fsmithredromo, are you planning to run in read-only mode, or do you plan to use a persistent volume?14:41
fsmithredoh, that wouldn't matter if you use consoleblank=0 on boot command.14:43
romodebdog: I was able to change and cat the changed value like that, I'm not sure when exactly it blanked before, I'm now waiting for it not to happen anymore.14:45
fsmithredwhat value did cat show?14:46
romofsmithred: ah, excellent so that's available as boot option as well. if it works I'll just punch it in upon starting. No persistence required...14:46
romoI set it to zero, which was reported back.14:47
fsmithredyeah, I was going to suggest a hook script, but then I read further down the page14:47
fsmithredoh, you didn't see what it was before you changed it?14:47
romoI think it might have been 600, like in the example. I got excited...14:50
fsmithredlol, I'm booting the iso now to check it14:52
fsmithredyeah, 60014:53
fsmithredadding the option to the boot command makes it 014:56
romoI took the scenic route and waited a bunch. It's not blanking anymore. Thanks a lot, everyone. I will now try to figure out how to disable curor blinking and then propose to that image.15:00
gnarfaceyou trying to kill pixels or something?15:03
romognarface: I'm in the process of practicing bit-flipping. It's going great so far.15:04
gnarfaceinteresting15:05
filipdevuanhey i installed antergos linux today but this distro feels a bit gay, but i was able to download bumblebee and wine and everything just worked in 5 minutes but i had best experience with devuan so far, just wish devuan had more modern desktop environment21:25
muep_I think xfce is pretty modern, unless definition of modern is chosen so that there is a lot of transparency and animations21:27
filipdevuanim probably gonna come back to devuan cuz when i was on this distro there were always clever and nice people here, antergros feels to much mainstream and people on different distros IRC's are just not the same21:29
golinuxA "more modern desktop environment" will be the undoing of Linux21:37
filipdevuanyeah... but i always liked using gnome. if devuan could be devuan and have gnome 3 like fedora it would be sick, but heard that gnome is mainly systemd, im still not familiar with what systemd does and init i read only few articles about it but still not very clear why should i ditch systemd distros like i believe id itched windows21:39
golinuxSurely, I've posted this before for you to read: http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1408.1/02496.html21:43
golinuxgnome and gtk3 are part of the cancer21:44
golinuxbbiab21:44
filipdevuaniv read it before21:45
filipdevuanyeah but why all these devuan DE's have to look like windows 9821:46
ivanshmakovfilipdevuan: Huh? Well, I’m not using Devuan right now, but I’m pretty sure that JWM, Openbox and VTWM do /not/ look like W98.21:47
muep_I like gnome as well, but it is far from being the only environment that I would consider sufficiently modern21:49
filipdevuanyeah but why all these devuan DE's have to look like windows 9821:49
ivanshmakovI’ve experimented with both Gnome and KDE back in 2001 (or so.) I still have no clue on how any of that can be useful to me.21:50
muep_gnome of 2001 is pretty much not recognizable if you compare it to gnome of today21:51
ivanshmakovmuep_: Visually? I bet it isn’t. Functionally? I’m not quite sure.21:53
muep_even functionally I'm quite sure21:53
muep_gnome originally was one of those things designed around the desktop metaphor21:54
ivanshmakovmuep_: Personally, I have little interest in metaphors. Rather, I’m interested in getting job done. And I very much doubt that Gnome is going to improve how GCC works for me.21:55
muep_I pretty certainly would not want my window manager or other program filling that slow change how my compiler works21:56
muep_*that slot21:56
ivanshmakovmuep_: That’s the point. To me, there’s no desktop. If anything, there’re ‘tools,’ that sometimes get arranged in ‘toolkits.’ That’s all.21:57
muep_but having some at least reasonably ok window manager is essential for me to switch between programs I interact between the times I interact with gcc21:57
muep_these environments are just pre-assembled collections of such tools. then of course many users prefer to pick and set up their own and that is just fine21:59
muep_at least I am not that eager to set up all the little bits that gnome provides me out of the box. so e.g. now that I am inside an i3 session, I lack a convenient access to volume controls22:00
ivanshmakovmuep_: Openbox have worked for me just fine for years. JWM appears to work, too. And having a terminal emulator made to have matching colors to the WM seems irrelevant – so long that XTerm still /emulates/ a terminal better.22:00
muep_when I want to adjust my audio volume, I fire up an xterm and then use alsamixer in it. but it feel very clumsy doing that22:01
ivanshmakovmuep_: I have alsamixer running continuously in a Screen window. I can reach that window via XTerm, from a Linux ‘virtual terminal,’ or even via SSH from some other host.22:02
muep_I'd see little point in running it in screen. if you have that terminal handy, it is just as much effort to open a new alsamixer as opposed to connecting to the screen session22:03
muep_but of course that works as well22:04
ivanshmakovActually, the majority of the software I use runs under Screen. Whenever I do something – except for, say, designing PCB layouts – I have my Screen session right at hand. From there, Alsamixer is always at C-a ' 27 RET.22:05
muep_good for you then, I guess22:06
ivanshmakovI hope to try edbrowse. Who knows, perhaps I’d be able to work with .js-heavy Web sites from within Screen, too?…22:07
ivanshmakovmuep_: For me, for my coworkers, and for my employer, I suppose.22:07
muep_yes if they are the kind of users who want to run all their stuff in screen22:08
muep_I do not like it much. it always reserves me some handy keyboard shortcut, like C-a by default22:08
ivanshmakovmuep_: No, they’re the kind of users who benefit from me being able to do my job efficiently.22:09
ivanshmakovmuep_: Some rebind that to C-w, but that’s even more handy a shortcut, IMO.22:09
muep_I'm not saying that you should change the tools that work for you well22:09
muep_but I would say that the toolset you say is good for you is not something that I would recommend everyone to adopt22:10
muep_feel free to keep doing it if it works for you22:10
ivanshmakovmuep_: I recommend this toolset to whomever I see has similar interests and who I can take responsibility of helping with its adoption.22:12
muep_feel free to. I do not quite get what this "I have this awesome pre-made setup so I see no need for projects to make different pre-made setups" is22:15
ivanshmakovmuep_: It’s not as much about being ‘pre-made’ as it’s about minimalism.22:17
muep_ok22:19
ivanshmakovI’m not arguing in favor of adopting this visual style or that; more like about adopting a preference for software that is less complex while being functionally equivalent.22:20
muep_that's a good preference if you have available the resources for setting it up22:20
ivanshmakovFor instance, alsamixer is less complex than pretty much any GUI mixer.22:20
muep_either in yourself or in some other person who helps22:21
muep_I find alsamixer wasteful of my time and I'll happily pay some CPU time and RAM to save my time22:22
muep_but I have not yet set up anything sensible for this i322:22
muep_so alsamixer is what it will have to be for now22:22
ivanshmakovmuep_: That may very well be the case, but I’d suspect it to be a matter of perception.22:23
muep_at work I do not use audio so there my setup has not had to involve volume controls either22:23
ivanshmakovmuep_: Curiously, did you try, e. g., binding ‘xterm -e alsamixer’ to a hotkey?22:25
muep_no. next time I open my i3 configuration, I might add some amixer commands there22:25
muep_but that extra terminal window is specifically what I am unhappy about in using alsamixer22:26
ivanshmakovmuep_: And why is it that a terminal window makes you unhappy? (While, I presume, a non-terminal window does not.)22:27
muep_it adjusts out the layout of the workspace22:28
muep_or blocks my view of some other window that I want to look at22:28
muep_preferably I would have a transient overlay like what gnome does when I adjust the volume. or an icon change in some corner of the screen. or no visual feedback at all22:29
ivanshmakovmuep_: Perhaps you can try to script around amixer(1) instead?22:30
muep_I mentioned that as my likely next step22:30
ivanshmakovmuep_: Right; missed that.22:32
ivanshmakov(“No visual feedback” is about as minimalistic as I like.)22:35
gnu_srs1muep_: ivanshmakov: Have you tried mate? That is gnome2 at it's best (before destroying the desktop and requiring 3D graphics).23:39
ivanshmakovgnu_srs1: At one point, I’ve tried Gnome 1 (before there was 2), and found no use for it.23:50
golinuxfilipdevuan was the one longing for gnome.23:51
golinuxand a "modern" desktop23:52

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