freenode/#devuan/ Monday, 2018-07-02

filipdevuanhey im on the antergos now and when i typed geoiplookup it said: [filip@filipantergos ~]$ geoiplookup
filipdevuanGeoIP Country Edition: US, United States02:30
filipdevuanGeoIP City Edition, Rev 1: US, N/A, N/A, N/A, N/A, 37.750999, -97.821999, 0, 002:30
filipdevuanGeoIP ASNum Edition: AS15169 Google LLC02:30
filipdevuanwhy is google there and what this geoiplookup stands for???02:30
furrywolf8.8.8.8 is registered to google02:35
furrywolfand geoiplookup, while I've never used it, attempts to guess a physical location for an ip address, and guessed it's in the US, possibly near 37.750999, -97.821999.02:36
filipdevuanso does that mean that my pc sends data to google?02:39
filipdevuanoh i think i get what u mean i dont get it systemd sends data to google02:39
XenguyLet's be clear, google slurps w/e data it can03:22
XenguyDNS included, I'm sure03:23
TheBlueWizardhow do I change my domain name?04:42
gnarfacerecursive question bomb04:45
gnarfaceplease be more specific04:45
TheBlueWizardok...when installing Devuan (using graphic install option), you are asked a series of questions. One of those questions is to enter a domain name (.com, .net, whatever if it is intended for Internet server; otherwise feel free to name a domain for home use, which I am using that latter option. Now I thought what I entered needs to be changed. So how do I change my computer's domain name?04:49
Centurion_DanTheBlueWizard: the hostname is changed in /etc/hostname, and the domain name is changed in /etc/hosts (if set)05:29
TheBlueWizardlooks like /etc/hosts is the place to change the domain name...thanks!05:31
TheBlueWizardhow do I get and install various foreign fonts? the firefox browser is showing korean text as string of undefined "letters"05:52
gnarfaceTheBlueWizard: er um, sorry yea what he said.  got pulled away there06:02
gnarfacegotta go again momentarily but you can search the repo for additional font packages06:03
gnarfacethey usually have "font" or "ttf" in the description and/or package name06:03's midnite here...gotta sleep soon! :-) thanks!06:04
Leanderthere's a list of fonts on the debian wiki: , but the funny thing is that it cites as a reference, which has a different list of fonts06:31
gnarfacethere are truckloads of fonts06:48
gnarfacenot much standardization in how they're named06:48
gnarfacebut luckily you can search the repo with regular expressions06:48
muep_gnu_srs1: I prefer gnome 3 over gnome 2 so I do not seem to be in the target audience of mate06:55
Criggieheh I still use and prefer twm.06:58
Criggienone of this fancy toolbar shit.07:06
Criggiearrrr gerrouff-mah-lawn!07:06
muep_but of course for someone who prefers the gnome 2 ui, mate should be a thing to try07:12
DeeEffHey all, I updated ceres and haven't been able to get NVIDIA drivers to work (nor nouveau, even as a backup). Seems that when I try to use NVIDIA drivers I get the following log message:07:49
DeeEff[    66.129] (EE) Failed to initialize GLX extension (Compatible NVIDIA X driver not found)07:49
DeeEffAny steps I can take to diagnose / fix this?07:49
golinuxDeeEff: You could fix it by rolling back to ASCII.  ;)  Ceres is not for the faint hearted.08:43
gnarfaceDeeEff: make sure you have the libgl1-nvidia-glx package.  for some stuff (Steam) you'll need libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386 too, unless you're actually still on a 32-bit system.08:49
gnarfacethe nvidia packages in sid/ceres don't always have complete dependencies08:50
gnarfaceyou gotta make sure you have everything you need and scan for version mismatches too08:50
gnarfacefor nouveau it's some mesa package instead but i forget what exactly (libgl1-mesa-glx maybe?)08:51
gnarfacefor nouveau, actually i would think the "mesa-utils" package dependencies include everything you need but the two drivers don't play nice together.  if you have both installed but don't blacklist one you may have other problems with them fighting each other08:53
__maizhello, I'm presently trying to install devuan11:03
__maizbut I can't figure out how to install it from the livecd image11:04
__maizI tried to install it from the refractainstaller script11:04
__maizbut it stops after formatting the disk11:04
golinuxI always pre-format my partitions.  And you might try running refractainstaller from the cli.11:08
__maizcli is all there is11:08
__maizI'm assuming the rest is up to the user11:08
__maizI guess11:09
golinuxYou doing the minimal-live?11:09
__maizI've formated the newly created parition in ext411:09
__maizmounted it11:09
__maizbut I have no experience with debian11:09
__maizI assume some debootstrap is necessary here11:09
__maizI've looked it up11:09
__maizit seems to be debootstrap stable mountpoint URL11:09
__maizIdk what the URL should point at for devuan11:09
__maizi'm on the minimal-live, yes11:09
__maiz[i think]11:10
golinuxDesktop-live has an icon on the desktop.11:10
__maizthere is no X at all11:10
golinuxTake a look at this:
__maizso it's certainly not desktop-live11:10
golinuxYes, minimal-live is cli only.11:10
golinuxAnd have you read the release notes?11:11
__maizthere is a README but it's not helpful11:11
golinuxDid you look at the link I posted a few lines up?11:13
golinuxAnyway it's 4am.  I need to go to bed.   Look for fsmithred it you get stuck.11:14
__maizyes I'm looking right now11:15
golinuxGood luck!  See you on the other side11:15
KatolaZ__maiz: which live image are you using?11:18
__maizI can't tell11:19
__maizbut I just did a debootstrap --variant=minbase jessue /mnt
__maizand it seems ok11:19
Leanderjessue? did you mean jessie? and are you sure you want jessie, not ascii?11:25
gnarface__maiz: as i recall, there was some script in /usr/local/sbin you were supposed to run... debootstrap will work but that is doing it the hard way11:29
__maizif you're talking about that refractaainstaller script11:30
__maizit didn't work11:30
__maizit stopped at formatting partitions11:31
__maizand left me with the rest11:31
__maizLeander, well I wanted ascii11:33
__maizand didn't know better11:33
__maizhow can I fix it?11:34
LeanderI honestly don't know11:34
__maizand how can I set the locale system-wide?11:34
__maizdo I just edit /etc/profile?11:35
gnarface__maiz: wait when you say it stopped at reformatting partitions... are you sure it wasn't still formatting?11:38
KatolaZ__maiz: it would be good to know which image you are using11:38
KatolaZwhich actual iso image11:38
gnarface__maiz: or you mean like the script exits?11:39
KatolaZI don't understand how people can say "I don't know which image I used"11:51
KatolaZand still complain that "it didn't work"11:51
gnarfacewell formatting with ext4 is REALLY slow11:55
gnarfaceif there's no progress meter on that script i could imagine thinking it's stalled11:55
gnarfaceand i can unfortunately relate to being impatient11:56
terrycEasy, just depends on source. unles who ever created it labelled it fully and properly, easy to not know. BTSTMT11:56
stuck1does devuan come with openrc by default?12:02
gnarfaceno, sysvinit is the default but openrc is an option12:04
gnarfaceit is in the repo12:04
gnarfacealmost everything that is in debian is available in devuan12:05
stuck1so I just install openrc and i'm done?12:08
gnarfaceyea then reboot to test it, i guess12:10
gnarfacei haven't tested it myself but it's reported to work12:10
filipdevuandamn i still look for antisystemd arguments does it send all traffic data and activity on what i do on systemd os to google or other corpos??13:27
filipdevuanif i use systemd distro does shit i do on my system and all info about my activity go to google???13:31
gnarfaceyou could use tcpdump to find out13:34
djphFairly certain the asnwer is "no" (and if the answer is "yes", another reason to not use it)13:37
filipdevuan12:36:44.709721 IP _gateway.domain > filipantergos.37001: 51255 1/0/0 PTR (105)13:37
djphyes, amazon.13:37
filipdevuanso what does that mean i send some stuff to amazon??13:37
djphor you're at least talking to Amazon13:38
filipdevuani think im gonna install devuan again and never change it to another distro then13:38
djphe.g. ads on a webpage, or IDK.13:38
filipdevuani keep reading stuff about systemd and i am not really concerned about what it does to my OS i am concerned if it sends any info about me to corporations without my permission and knowledge about it13:39
djphit gets involved with a lot of things, but I've never seen "collect telemetry on you" as one of its sins.13:39
filipdevuanbasically i am concerned about third party website domains servers get knowledge about my activity on my computer which i think is unacceptable13:40
djphoh, that has nothing to do with systemd.13:41
filipdevuanso its not by systemd but by distro in general if it sends anything to amazon why is there amazon there on tcpdump fking hell ;/13:43
djphdid you simply not read anything I just said?13:43
djphwhat distro?13:43
djphwhat else do youhave open?13:43
filipdevuani use antergos at the moment13:43
filipdevuaninternet browser and a game13:43
filipdevuanlet me turn off everything and see whats happening13:44
djphwell, there you go. Web broswer (i.e. ads) could very well be talking to amazon. not to mention a game (and IRC and ...)13:44
filipdevuanits so sad13:44
filipdevuani get this ip lots
filipdevuan12:46:46.169908 ARP, Request who-has (Broadcast) tell _gateway, length 2813:46
filipdevuanokay thanks it seems like game doesnt send anything to amazon it was ads ok cheers13:48
gnarfacefilipdevuan: ubuntu was selling its users out to amazon before systemd13:51
gnarfaceit might not be systemd doing that13:51
KatolaZfilipdevuan: is a LAN IP...13:52
gnarfaceall kinds of stuff is using google's DNS by default too though, which is something to worry about13:52
KatolaZand, the fact that an IP resolves to amazon does not mean that it's amazon13:52
KatolaZit will most probably be an AWS server13:52
KatolaZbelonging to who-knows...13:53
gnarfacethat too13:53
KatolaZ13:37 < filipdevuan> 12:36:44.709721 IP _gateway.domain > filipantergos.37001: 51255 1/0/0 PTR13:53
KatolaZ            (105)13:53
KatolaZthis is an aws instance, for instance13:53
filipdevuanso its not systemd and antergos by default who sends stuff to amazon or google is for example my activity on internet13:54
gnarfaceyes, banner ads have been leaking all this data for longer than social networks or init systems were a problem13:54
filipdevuanokay you calmed me down a bit then. well now im just gonna get some nice browser like icecat and be more careful i dont wanna send anything to amazon or googles...13:55
gnarfacemake sure you're not confusing your IRC traffic for it13:55
gnarfaceyou'll also see this IRC channel in your connections13:55
filipdevuanit looks like irc is safe13:55
filipdevuanbut its crap if i wanna access #devuan through freenode website theres recaptcha and recaptcha is google...13:56
gnarfacethere are irc clients that respect your privacy13:56
gnarfaceyou don't have to use a web-based one13:56
filipdevuanyeah i know i use hexchat mainly ;p13:57
filipdevuanokay so now i add/delete software and downloaded ice cat and i have that
filipdevuanit looks like facebook to me13:57
gnarfacethat looks like a residential DSL line13:59
gnarfaceare you sure that's not yourself?13:59
filipdevuanthis is really possible ;p13:59
gnarfaceok well this IRC server says it's not you14:00
gnarfaceactually that's super sketchy14:01
filipdevuani like antergos its quite simple OS but im going back to devuan and not sure if i wanna test more distros but probably not cuz theyre all seem like they have privacy leaks14:01
gnarface Beijing Sanfront Information Technology Co., Ltd14:02
gnarfaceabuse contact email and phone numbers are blank14:02
gnarfaceyea they care a lot about abuse14:03
filipdevuanso it seems like downloading something from applications software sends some data to this benjing stuff lemme find my pendrive burn iso and im coming :D14:03
gnarfacewell you should really try to figure out what exactly is doing that14:03
gnarfaceto make sure it's not self-inflicted14:03
gnarfacei mean if you didn't know ads were a risk...14:03
gnarfaceyou got any chat clients open maybE?14:04
gnarfacebut yea maybe it's not worth the trouble14:04
gnarfacenuking it from orbit is always the safe option14:04
filipdevuanokay it seems like icecat was downloaded from this benjing stuff and now when i went on website that has ads blocked by icecat libremjs and only https it still sends data to amazon :(14:06
filipdevuanP > filipantergos14:06
gnarfaceyou need a plugin that will block anything coming from a domain other than the site you're connecting to at that moment14:07
gnarfacethough that may break sites with poor security practices14:07
gnarfacei think firefox itself may have some leaks too14:08
gnarfacethat you can plug with some config settings14:08
filipdevuandamn corpos!!! that fks me off that i use my computer and internet and it sends stuff to amazon some billionaires without my permission that just make money on me all the time!!!14:09
KatolaZfilipdevuan: just calm down14:09
gnarfaceand it really should make you mad but you're a little late to the party14:10
KatolaZagain, it's not amazon14:10
KatolaZit's whoever who got an aws instance14:10
KatolaZand yes, 98% of the web is spying on you14:10
KatolaZgood morning14:10
gnarfaceit *could* just be the website's crappily implemented cloud scaling14:10
gnarfacethat would be a really bad way to do it but i've seen more poorly conceived things14:11
filipdevuanbut anyways its not the systemd OS's that do that by default and i can feel safe even on systemd archbased antergos????14:11
gnarfacewell, yes and no14:12
KatolaZfilipdevuan: what are you talking  about?!?14:12
gnarfacefilipdevuan: yes maybe antergos is not implicitly unsafe but really if you're just discovering all of this you need to read up on some basic info about web and email security...14:12
filipdevuanyeah, but lets say i dont use any net browser and just use some apps on systemd distros im still worried about it that it sends info that i use this application right now or something lol14:13
KatolaZfilipdevuan: you fear only those things that you don't understand14:13
KatolaZthere is no evidence that systemd is spying on you14:13
KatolaZnot so far14:13
KatolaZso please, let's avoid to spread FUD14:14
KatolaZsystemd is bad for *other* reasons14:14
gnarfacenow Ubuntu on the other hand... they're definitely spying on you but it's got nothing to do with systemd14:14
KatolaZthey sold their users to amazon14:14
KatolaZsic and simpliciter14:14
filipdevuanokay thank you very much devuan people :). yeah i can calm down now ;). thanks!!!14:14
KatolaZwell, sic *et* simpliciter, actually :D14:15
filipdevuanyeah not surprised that they did sell anything to amazon you know gaming platform steam does all crap stuff as well and on their website they say ubuntu is their fav website14:15
filipdevuanthis is what steam does apparently if u use it you may wanna read it :P14:16
KatolaZfilipdevuan: I don't use steam :)14:16
gnarfacefirefox supposedly leaks a bunch of data by default too but you can shut off most of it in about:config14:16
gnarfacebut whoever hosts your DNS also gets all the times and server host names of your web browsing history14:17
gnarfaceso if you're really trying to not leak data to Google you gotta be careful where you put your email and DNS too14:18
filipdevuanyou mean put my email during registrations on vary websites??14:19
gnarfacei mean where it is hosted14:20
gnarfacewhere the emails are stored14:20
filipdevuani use i had to ask them for account lol ;P.14:20
filipdevuanbut i dont know what about dns i dont even know what dns is and how can i check whats my dns14:20
gnarfacesounds legit14:20
gnarfaceeither /etc/network/interfaces or /etc/resolv.conf probably has your DNS servers14:21
gnarfacenormally these would be provided by your ISP but Google put up some free ones "for research" that everyone rushed to use like some blind sheep14:22
gnarfaceif you trust your ISP you can trust their DNS servers but honestly i wouldn't14:22
filipdevuannah i dont really trust virgin media but it wasnt me who bought contract from them hahah so i cant do anything about it14:23
gnarfaceactually yea you can14:23
gnarfacethey can't force you to use their DNS14:23
filipdevuanso when i get on resolv.conf i get that # Generated by NetworkManager14:23
gnarfacelooks like your router14:23
gnarfacethey might be able to force your router to use their DNS but even then you can override it for your desktop14:24
gnarfacehonestly they may not even force your router to do it14:32
gnarfacethey might just have provided the defaults14:32
filipdevuanok cheers14:36
stuckiehow can I update from jessie to ascii?16:09
Xenguystuckie: I'd look for a canonical post in the forums for that16:09
XenguyIf you're lucky golinux might show up, and usually knows this stuff16:10
KatolaZstuckie: just read ASCII release notes16:10
stuckiehe's asleep right now16:10
KatolaZ <- stuckie16:10
stuckiehe helped me earlier this morning16:10
KatolaZstuckie: ^^^^^16:12
stuckieit's cool16:13
* Xenguy reads ...16:14
stuckieif I understand correctly, openrc doesn't come with openrc init scripts16:14
eyalrozI'm trying to install the package for adding git support to mercurial. I think it's supposed to be mercurial-git, but when I try20:02
eyalroz$ apt-get install mercurial-git20:02
eyalrozI get:20:02
eyalrozPackage mercurial-git is not available, but is referred to by another package.20:02
eyalrozwhat gives?20:02
eyalrozgolinux: Would you like help translating fluxbb into Hebrew?20:04
KatolaZeyalroz: the package is not in ascii20:05
eyalrozKatolaZ: This is super-weird, because it _was_ in Jessie.20:06
eyalrozDid stretch reshuffle the mercurial-related packages perhaps?20:06
KatolaZeyalroz: complain with debian then :)20:07
KatolaZit's not in stretch20:07
KatolaZand it's not in buster20:07
KatolaZso it's not in ascii20:07
KatolaZand won't probably be in beowulf either20:07
KatolaZthere must be some reason though20:07
eyalrozThis is really weird... it's in sid and ceres, and both jessie's, but not in stretch and ascii20:08
eyalroz@KatolaZ: Complaining with #debian now.20:20
KatolaZeyalroz: normally there are *very* good reasons to exclude a package20:24
KatolaZusually an excluded package has serious packaging issues that have not been addressed20:24
eyalroz@KatolaZ: I don't want them to change the decision, I just want a workaround20:25
eyalrozSo I've now also asked this:
KatolaZthe workaround is to get the source package from ceres, and build it by yourself20:29
KatolaZbut there is no guarantee that it will work20:29
KatolaZ(if it worked seamlessly, the package would have been in stretch...)20:30
bozoniusdevuan allows early mounting... e.g., /usr can be on its own partition.  But the arch* distros and even alpine do not permit this!21:42
bozoniusAlpine claims to be ideal for embedded systems, so one would think a root filesystem should be as small as possible for that.  Instead, they mush /usr and / all together, which can be huge, depending on what they are embedding.21:43
bozoniusOn top of that, initramfs (or analog) can have whatever it is the embedded needs (i.e., the libs and progs normally in /usr) just to boot.21:44
bozoniusInstead, they soft link the executables and libraries to "work around it" which is... well, rather un-unix-like21:45
bozoniusI actually PREFER to have /usr on a separate fs.  In fact, I like /var and /tmp on separate slices also.21:46
bozoniusI've had /tmp eat all the space on /, and I've seen /var do the same21:46
bozoniusHaving them separate helps me figure out where the drain is occurring21:47
bozoniusBesides, why should any distro dictate how I must administer my OWN system?   This was never the case in the past that I can recall.21:48
bozoniusIt's my PC, which I paid for, my Internet connection (which I also pay for), and my time and effort.  Why are the Windows kiddies allowed to commandeer *nix and the way it has always worked?  If I yearned so hard for something like Windows, then I'd install Windows.21:50
* bozonius realizes no one is listening probably, but it feels SOOOOOOOO good to let it out... somewhere21:51
phoggbozonius: You didn't seem to have any kind of question.21:52
bozoniustrue.  Probably better for the debianfork channel...21:52
bozonius(I keep forgetting)21:52
phoggBut FYI Lennart's opinion is that having a separate /usr partition is "broken" due to the possibility of needing a library or program on /usr during early boot, so distros using systemd have generally moved away from it.21:53
bozonius(his opinion aside, phogg, prob. we should take this to the other channel)21:53
bozonius(the mods get pissed at this kind of thing)21:54
bozoniussee you there21:54
bozoniusif I want to help with testing Beowulf, is there a page to look at to see what's going on, etc?22:30
golinuxNot yet22:31
eyalrozgolinux: I've resolved my mercurial-git issue by installing the sid .deb file (which is also the Ceres .deb file I would guess).22:35
eyalrozStackOverflow page with question and answer:
grillonhi there22:39
golinuxYou should porobably replace the debian file with the one from Ceres if you want it to update properly.22:39
golinuxThey are identical22:39
bozoniusI am interested in the package scribus.  Currently, debian repos have scribus v.1.4.6, but I'd like to get v.1.4.7 -- would this be a candidate for devuan repos, or would it be better to get debian to provide the update... how does this work generally?22:48
NewGnuGuybozonius: scribus v.1.4.7 is in debian buster, so it ought to be in devuan beowulf.22:56
bozoniusok, backports then?22:57
bozoniusI mean, backport for ascii?22:57
NewGnuGuybozonius: I don't believe it is in backports, but you should be able to temporarily add beowulf to your sources.list, apt-get update, install scribus, then remove beowulf from your sources.list, and apt-get update again.23:00
bozonius2and then see if it actually works, which it should, but there could be some library conflict23:00
eyalrozgolinux: There is no file from Ceres, AFAICT. And - the package has no binary files, so there's no potential incompatibilities.23:01
KatolaZeyalroz: there is no file in ceres23:02
KatolaZsince that package has not been forked by devuan23:03
KatolaZso it comes directly from debian23:03
golinuxVia amprolla not directly thoug23:03
golinuxh, right?23:03
golinuxMaybe I'm misunderstanding something23:04
golinuxPlease enlighten me.23:05
golinuxHe installed it via sid23:05
KatolaZgolinux: if a package has not been forked by devuan it comes directly from debian repos23:11
KatolaZit has always been so23:11
eyalrozKatolaZ: I assumed that was the case until golinux suggested I try the "Ceres version", but there was none...23:14
KatolaZeyalroz: it's like I said23:14
KatolaZif a package has not been forked by devuan, it comes directly from the corresponding debian repo23:14
eyalrozKatolaZ: Indeed.23:14
KatolaZthis is how amprolla works23:14
golinuxeyalroz: Did you get that deb from or via amprolla?23:19
bozonius2NewGnuGuy:  I added this to my source.list, but it errors on update:23:19
bozonius2deb beowulf main contrib23:19
bozonius2not sure what it is supposed to be23:19
golinuxauto.mirror is obsolete23:20
golinuxUse deb.devuan.org23:20
golinuxNewGnuGuy: Hello stranger23:21
KatolaZgolinux: what do you mean by "or via amprolla"?23:24
KatolaZthe repo available at is put together by amprolla...23:24
golinuxI understood that he DIDN'T get it from or any devuan repo23:26
KatolaZgolinux: in this case it does not make any difference23:26
KatolaZsince the package was not forked by devuan23:26
KatolaZso the package would in any case come from the corresponding debian repo23:26
bozonius2NewGnuGuy:  scribus causes a whole lot of other stuff to be updated also, especially on jessie, but also on ascii.23:28
bozonius2I think I'll patiently wait23:29
NewGnuGuyYour choice23:29
bozonius2scribus 1.4.7 could be my test case for beowulf testing23:30
KatolaZis scribus still around?23:30
bozonius2is there something better?23:30
KatolaZI haven't used it in 10+ years I guess23:30
KatolaZoh I have no idea23:30
bozonius2There IS a 1.5.x but that's only dev versions23:31
KatolaZas I said, have not used anything like that in a lot of time23:31
bozonius2no word on a 1.6 release23:31
KatolaZI think the last one I used was back in 2008 or so23:31
bozonius2but 1.4.7 has some bug fixes that I'd like23:31
KatolaZaccording to wikipedia, it must have been any version number smaller than 1.3.523:34
KatolaZconsidering that I used debian, it must have probably been something like 1.3.3 or 1.3.423:34
xrogaanis there way to easily change the keyboard map then revert it back to how it was?23:36
bozoniuscoulda sworn I registered at but now I can't log in23:40
bozoniusrequested password reset, but no email!23:40
golinuxbozonius: You never verified your account23:42
golinuxIn incomplete registration23:42
golinuxI can help you fix that23:42
bozoniusok, what do I do?23:45
golinuxLet's pm23:50
golinuxIf you can't find the confirmation email.  Anyway, it's probably expired23:50
Mo_can you install virtual box on devuan?? does anyone noe??23:59
golinuxOf course23:59
Mo_what are the steps to do so if you don't mind explaining??23:59

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