freenode/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2018-07-04

filipdevuanis firefox safe or it spies as well???00:02
roundduckman-devI need help install nvidia drivers on a laptop with optimus01:13
filipdevuancan you do viruses for linux01:14
roundduckman-devI need help installing nvidia drivers from backports, please01:17
djphfilipdevuan: sure, see all the IoT stuff01:18
roundduckman-devdjph, considering you're talking (and that it seems others don't recognize new messages unless messaged), have you tried installing nvidia drivers on devuan via backports?01:19
roundduckman-devI need help, that's the problem, Debian/Devuan driver installing can be a bit of a mess01:20
djphroundduckman-dev: nope, I don't have an optimus box anymore (I used to, but the mobo died, and went with the no-gpu option, since it was $20 ... and I wasn't sure if it was the mobo, or CPU that got ruined)01:21
roundduckman-devdang it. :P  I just wanted to game on Devuan, without the nasty systemd. :,(01:22
roundduckman-devor using intel drivers01:22
roundduckman-devI was on Solus, and I had some problems so I wanted to try something without systemd01:23
gnarfaceroundduckman-dev: what's your problem with installing nvidia drivers from backports?01:23
roundduckman-devI'm in package confusion and I can't seem to install bumblebee and Nvidia drivers, getting stuff like01:25
roundduckman-dev"The following packages have unmet dependencies"01:25
roundduckman-devI'm in a bit of a dependency pickle01:25
djphyay, dependency hell01:26
roundduckman-devIt's like I'm back in Ubuntu-land again, especially considering that was also Debian-based01:26
gnarfaceok first of all, when installing from backports, make sure you use the option "-t ascii-backports"01:27
gnarfacewe're talking about ascii, right?01:27
gnarfacesecond of all, nvidia is stupid01:27
gnarfacetheir maintainers are not only that, but they're also angry01:27
gnarfaceso their packages are garbage01:28
gnarfaceyou have to manually double-check their dependencies every time01:28
gnarfacethey almost always get something wrong - to the point i'm sure they're doing it on purpose out of spite01:28
gnarfaceso after you think you have nvidia drivers from backports, go through all your packages with `dpkg -l |grep nvidia -i` and manually update all the ones that are still at the old version01:29
roundduckman-devYes, it's ASCII. And I'm doing that. The problem was that after installing Nvidia-driver, then I can't install Bumblebee. Then I deleted Nvidia-driver and installed bumblebee, then I deleted Bumblebee since htat's not how it works, and now I can't install Nvidia-driver again01:29
gnarfacemake sure you have a working complete set of the same nvidia driver versions first01:29
gnarfacethen reboot and make sure they're loaded01:29
gnarfacewe can't really confirm any specific cause of blame here yet just with the information you've given me, but just to be clear, you'll definitely need the kernel and bumblebee versions from backports *also* if this is gonna work01:30
gnarface(and no, it's not smart enough to figure that out on it's own either without you appending "-t ascii-backports" to every single apt-get call)01:31
gnarfacethe package dependency issues you're seeing most likely extend from this^01:31
filipdevuanmaybe you should install bumblebee with nvidia let me give you a command and wiki its debian wiki01:32
gnarfacehmmm, yes the debian wiki may very well still be accurate on this matter01:32
gnarfacei have not personal experience with bumblebee so i can only help with theoreticals01:32
filipdevuanhttps://wiki.debian.org/Bumblebee sudo apt-get install bumblebee-nvidia primus01:32
roundduckman-devI deleted anything that is Nvidia related (not nouveau though)01:33
roundduckman-devJust did it, hopefully nvidia-driver will install01:33
filipdevuani think if you type bumblebee-nvidia primus that should be with nvidia graphics as well01:33
filipdevuan;P01:33
roundduckman-devcrap, didn't fix it, so I'll start reading on wiki01:33
filipdevuanwhats your issue?? fix what?01:34
filipdevuanoh damn01:34
gnarfacefilipdevuan: you managed to get gpu passthrough working with bumblebee?01:35
roundduckman-devfilipdevuan, it's the fact I couldn't reinstall the "nvidia-driver" package01:35
filipdevuanyeah its easy but bumblebee doesnt support nouveau anymore i feel i dont feel like using proprietary nvidia drivers though im alright with intel just for now, linux doesnt have that graphics demanding games01:36
filipdevuanso i dont use bumblebee cuz i dont wanna install nvidia drivers ;p01:36
filipdevuanyeah try through synaptic package manager its easier ;D01:36
gnarface well nouveau does have some new way to make optimus hardware work without bumblebee, but i don't know if it's any more likely to work (i doubt it)01:36
roundduckman-devI have quite a few, like Overgrowth. My main problem with nvidia drivers is that it's too damn hard to install and sometimes a bit buggy01:37
gnarfacein general i've found that most packages in non-free have diminished quality compared to the open source stuff01:37
filipdevuanyeah well when i installed bumblebee with nvidia drivers then i was just typing optirun bash after that just i was playing games through wine so wine app.exe01:38
gnarfacetry to avoid it for getting work done whenever possible01:38
djphgnarface: well iwlwifi is solid ...01:39
roundduckman-devNow I'm stuck even more, and I feel I screwed it up. I can't install bumblebee or nvidia drivers, not even separately, I'm in deep shit01:39
roundduckman-devTime to reinstall again...01:39
gnarfacedjph: you must not have tested it in jessie01:39
filipdevuandid u try apt-get purge??01:39
roundduckman-devI'll try that.01:39
filipdevuanapt-get purge bumblebee or apt-get purge nvidia i think01:40
djphgnarface: jessie, and ascii ... but ascii ate a bunch of things I use (e.g. VLC) during the beta, and I broke something else, so back to Jessie01:40
gnarfacedjph: i was learning how to use refracta to make a custom ascii live image while jessie was still in beta because iwlwifi *specifically* from jessie has showstoppers on some hardware that still exist in the jessie version01:41
djphgnarface: 7260 here, so none of those for me.01:41
gnarfacethough i think they may be fixed in jessie-backports now01:41
djphgnarface: but I might've just gotten lucky01:41
gnarfaceanyway, haven't seen the problem in ascii but the customer did complain his wifi switch light behavior changed fundamentally01:41
gnarfacei think that was unrelated to the bug fix though01:42
roundduckman-devNothing is left that is nvidia-related, yet can't install river01:44
roundduckman-devNothing is left that is nvidia-related, yet can't install driver, oops01:44
gnarfacewhat is the specific message?01:45
gnarfacei'm gonna need to see the message or all i can give you is pointless speculation01:47
roundduckman-devresults for installing driver and installing bumblebee-nvidia: https://pastebin.com/FR6253r401:47
gnarfacethat's two separate outputs of two separate commands, neither of which are included here, but both of which are relevant01:48
roundduckman-devYep, trying to create  picture of the dependency mess01:49
gnarfaceok to be clear i'm going to have to see those commands too01:49
gnarfaceand probably the contents of your /etc/apt/sources.list file01:49
roundduckman-dev1st command was "sudo apt -t ascii-backports install nvidia-driver," the second was "udo apt -t ascii-backports install bumblebee-nvidia primus"01:50
roundduckman-dev*sudo for the second01:50
gnarfaceok, now the sources.list file?01:50
fugitivecheck do you have "non-free contrib" in sources. Forgot about them recently as well01:51
roundduckman-devhttps://pastebin.com/fiqsjMRj, also I did do "dpkg add-architecture i386"01:51
gnarfacei'm thinking he just needs to re-run the first command as "apt-get -t ascii-backports install nvidia-driver bumblebee nvidia-driver-libs libgl1-nvidia-glx"01:52
gnarfacebut there have been problems for me with some of the US mirrors, you might need to change the host name in the sources.list to avoid them01:52
gnarfaceotherwise, the sources.list looks fine so the problem is likely just the install command01:53
gnarfaceput enough of the nvidia packages on the same line and it should work01:53
roundduckman-devhttps://pastebin.com/9hxmZ7f8 These are results and command.01:53
roundduckman-devhold on01:53
filipdevuandid u test if optirun works01:54
roundduckman-devLet me try again, messed up on last package01:54
gnarfaceroundduckman-dev: 390.48-2~bpo9+3 see this?01:54
fugitiveyea, should do the job, like said, had the same issue few days ago, and dependency mess was caused by missing non-free && contrib directive..01:54
roundduckman-devYeah, that's backports01:54
gnarfaceroundduckman-dev: "bpo" means backports.  every time you see it say it depends on a backports version that will not be installed, add it to the list of packages on that command-line and re-run it01:55
gnarfacekeep doing that until it runs out of complaints, or complains about something NOT in backports01:55
roundduckman-devhttps://pastebin.com/sjXZ4h1z New paste with corrected command, will look at your message, gnarface, afterwards01:55
roundduckman-dev"roundduckman-dev: "bpo" means backports.  every time you see it say it depends on a backports version that will not be installed, add it to the list of packages on that command-line and re-run it"01:55
roundduckman-devWhat the hell, you have to do that? O_o01:56
fugitivestupid, but worth mentioning, apt update first :)01:56
gnarfaceroundduckman-dev: yea basically what is happening here is that it's looking for dependencies of backport packages in the main repo because backports is not the default even if it's in your sources.list.  trust me, the alternative would be an even bigger mess.01:56
gnarfaceroundduckman-dev: so get them all manually on the same command-line even if you have to, but then after it's working i advise you immediately then comment-out backports from your sources.list and re-run `apt-get update` so you don't accidentally get anything else from there later01:57
roundduckman-devFuck it, I'm going to TEMPORIALLY change priority for backports.01:57
roundduckman-devIt would be easier in theory.01:58
gnarfacewell if you break it you get to keep all the pieces01:58
roundduckman-devlol. :P01:58
roundduckman-devThat would be true01:58
gnarfacei really don't think you want EVERYTHING updated from backports though01:59
gnarfacehonestly that's asking for trouble01:59
gnarfacebut the nvidia drivers do depend on a couple xorg packages and probably the kernel from there01:59
gnarfacethe stuff from backports isn't all tested to work together02:00
gnarface*usually* it's only there to provide fixes that break expected behavior02:01
roundduckman-devFuck, even after changing priority: https://pastebin.com/hPVz3fVB02:02
roundduckman-devBTW, I didn't pull off a dist/full-upgrade02:02
roundduckman-devwith backports02:02
roundduckman-devJust to make the automatic package picking easier02:02
gnarfaceyou did remember to `apt-get update` after changing the sources.list every time though, right?02:03
roundduckman-devYeah.02:03
roundduckman-devDo I need to reboot to recognize a change in /etc/apt/preferences,d?02:04
gnarfaceno02:04
gnarfacebut02:04
gnarfaceyour last paste02:04
roundduckman-devYeah?02:04
gnarfacerefers to 375.82-1~deb9u102:04
gnarfacethat's a downgrade from what you were trying earlier02:04
roundduckman-devYep, even after the priority change02:04
gnarfaceso i suspect your priority change is being ignored02:04
roundduckman-devApt tries to use those crummy older packages02:05
roundduckman-devThat's why I asked if I needed a reboot02:05
gnarfaceyou don't need to reboot02:05
roundduckman-devOk.02:05
gnarfacelook you're making this harder on both of us than it has to be02:06
gnarfaceplease complete the initial test02:06
roundduckman-devWhat's the inital test again?02:06
gnarfaceapt-get -t ascii-backports install [every single nvidia package]02:07
gnarfaceyou honestly may have to list all 20 or so of them02:07
roundduckman-devAlright02:07
gnarfacei think you're supposed to change preferences for backports with pinning02:07
gnarfacei don't know if you did it right02:07
gnarfaceand i don't want to figure that out02:07
gnarfaceand it isn't necessary anyway02:08
gnarfaceand it's also a bad idea to begin with02:08
gnarfaceoh02:08
gnarfacebut while you're in there, if you're using an Intel CPU you should probably grab their updated microcode package, for security fixes :-/02:08
gnarfaceit will also be in non-free02:09
gnarfaceit shouldn't depend on anything though02:09
gnarfacebrb02:10
roundduckman-devhttps://pastebin.com/1m1ukacE02:16
roundduckman-devIt's not workinng great02:16
roundduckman-devI brought the priority settings back to default02:17
gnarfaceseems lik eyou're making progress actually02:17
gnarfacebut earlier when you enabled multi-arch you added extra work for yourself here02:18
gnarfacethe pattern hasn't changed02:18
gnarfaceyou're still doing the right thing02:18
gnarfaceyour mistake in perception is you didn't notice that it is complaining now about "nvidia-driver-libs:i386"  not "nvidia-driver-libs:amd64" which you've already included02:19
gnarfacefor multiarch to work, you need both the i386 and the amd64 versions of several of these driver packages02:19
gnarfacei guess that means it may be more than 20 packages actually...02:20
gnarfacei'm counting 61 of them here :(02:21
abcabc__context?02:21
roundduckman-devupdate: https://pastebin.com/ZnZJRaGh02:22
gnarfaceabcabc__: he's having trouble shoehorning bumblebee&nvidia drivers from backports into an ascii install02:22
roundduckman-devI feel like to quit and do either a reinstall, nuke everything into the bare minimum and reinstall everything manually like Arch, or use Void Linux02:23
gnarfaceroundduckman-dev: there are a couple places where you have to make a choice between a "glvnd" or regular version of two packages.  i've been picking the non-glvnd ones02:23
gnarfaceroundduckman-dev: how did you get this install to begin with?  i'll admit it's usually not this much trouble for people unless they've got a heavily mixed set of packages from different distros/versions02:24
gnarfacesome of the behavior here you've seen could be indicative of stray packages from an older debian upgrade lingering around02:25
gnarfacei still think it'll eventually work if you keep adding packages to the list though02:25
gnarfacedepending on how much bandwidth you actually have it really COULD be faster to start over from scratch if you know how to make a minimal install properly02:26
gnarfaceyou can do that in about 20 minutes with a debian/devuan installer02:26
gnarfacebut like i said, i do think you're getting discouraged with plan "A" too early, but it is a gamble either way02:26
gnarfacethat filipdevuan guy got his working, you can too02:27
roundduckman-devI'll show you my apt history: https://pastebin.com/QMU976Wx02:29
roundduckman-devpart of it at elast02:30
roundduckman-devpart of it at least02:30
roundduckman-devNothing too personal yet02:30
gnarfaceit probably should be mentioned i always call "apt-get" and "apt-cache" directly02:30
gnarfaceif "apt" behaves any differently in the way it manages dependencies that would also be an unknown variable to me02:31
roundduckman-devThose logs apply even with apt-get02:31
roundduckman-devNot apt-cache as it's a search though02:31
roundduckman-devI guess "apt" in this case is "APT," the proper term, not apt-cache02:32
gnarfacesometimes when you see it seeming to remove then re-add the same package, what is probably happening is it's removing a conflicting version from an older install (perhaps a previous use of jessie-backports before upgrading left stray packages behind - that can cause some of these types of complications)02:32
roundduckman-devI guess "apt" in this case is "APT," the proper term, not "apt"02:32
roundduckman-devBut yeah, any strange indications in the log, like a crappily installed file that's tripping the package manager?02:33
gnarfacewell this last paste looks like you tried to manually kill it with keyboard escape sequences while it was actually working02:33
gnarfaceso that's a problem02:34
gnarfaceseemed to complete though anyway02:34
roundduckman-devI didn't try to kill anything, no ctrl+c. Sometimes the log splits a section in term.log while using one command02:35
gnarfaceoh i see, then you continue and several more installs complete02:35
gnarfaceno i don't see anything in this log that doesn't look like a self-inflicted problem02:35
gnarfacebtw you will need dkms02:36
gnarfacei see you just purged that02:36
roundduckman-devYeah, got that02:36
roundduckman-devI purged it along with anything Nvidia initally, then reinstalled dkms02:36
gnarfacewhere you see a conflict between two packages named "*nvidia*" and "*mesa*" choose the nvidia one02:36
roundduckman-devSo I must delete anything mesa?02:37
gnarfaceno, most of it is harmless02:37
gnarfacejust a few packages that will be in direct conflict with corresponding nvidia ones must be replaced02:37
gnarfacelibgl1-nvidia-glx and libgl1-mesa-glx i think is a prime example02:37
gnarface(and make sure to remember you'll want libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64 *and* libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386)02:38
roundduckman-devYou know what, thank you for your help, but considering I still have a somewhat functional system, I'll reinstall02:41
roundduckman-devI havrn't done much, and I can't delete the mesa stuff due to more dependency hell02:42
roundduckman-devI can just download etcher and the iso and reinstall Devuan02:42
gnarfaceetcher???02:45
gnarfacedear lord don't use that malware shit02:46
gnarfacethat's half of your problem right there02:46
gnarfaceuse `dd` or `cp`02:46
gnarfacehell use cat even if it floats your boat02:46
gnarfaceuse anything from the repo02:46
gnarfacedon't use some web-gen-2.0 driveby hack tool02:46
gnarfacein general you should be highly suspicious of anyone trying to rebrand core OS functionality02:48
roundduckman-devI use etcher because it also verifies, and I'm not that purist. I just like my core to be Unix-like, as that can lead to instability otherwise. If a side program crashes, I'd just throw it away. :/02:51
gnarfacedd verifies02:52
roundduckman-devI thought it just unmercifully copies. :P02:52
gnarfacewell i mean at the end, it will tell you how many blocks were read and how many were written, so you can note any discrepancies02:52
roundduckman-devdd is great BTW, just isn't my cup of tea. If it's yours though, more power to you, especially considering its power and simplity.02:53
gnarfacei just really don't trust etcher and i'm trying to save you more hassle, that's all02:53
gnarfaceat best we're talking about people who presume to be qualified to safely and securely write your data to flash that haven't heard of dd02:54
gnarfacebut what is far more likely is that they *have* heard of dd and have ulterior motives02:54
roundduckman-devEhh, I got lots of issues anyways. I mean, I can mention about how a use pulsea-02:54
roundduckman-dev*I02:54
gnarfaceheh02:55
roundduckman-devSee ya, got to go somewhere anyways, will be back after reinstall02:56
KatolaZM0E-lnx: we need to update parse_alioth in d1h10:16
KatolaZalioth is discontinued10:16
* Digit realised the manpage for flite says "-v" = "verbose", but in practice, that's for setting which voice to use (like "-v rms")14:07
* Digit realises he's wrong14:09
furrymcgeeregarding gcc doc and https://people.debian.org/~srivasta/Position_Statement.xhtml . Do you use debian free software guideline in devuan and what is your position to GNU Free documentation license?14:29
roundduckmanAlright, with a fresh new system, how to install nvidia drivers from backports?14:31
roundduckmanAlright gnarface, with a fresh new system, how to install nvidia drivers from backports?14:31
roundduckmanWithout screwing it up this time... ;)14:32
gnarfacedon't enable multiarch just yet that will confuse you14:35
gnarfacestart with `apt-get -t ascii-backports nvidia-driver libgl1-nvidia-glx` or else just follow that debian wiki page...14:35
roundduckmanWell, I'd need it to install it properly to get Steam working, but I'll hold back if needed.14:35
gnarfaceeasier to test with glxgears and glxinfo in 64-bit mode first14:36
roundduckmanAlso, I'm going to see if I can find a way to back shit up so if a screw up, I can quickly do a do-over14:36
gnarfacethat is a good idea14:38
roundduckmangnarface, I'm backing up with some graphical tool I found that uses rsync. I'll get that done, then the fun will begin. :P (yeah, should've thought about that before entering here)14:53
roundduckmanSorry about the huge delay, gnarface. I had to sleep (parents) and my laptop shutdown due to a dead battery. Stupid battery indicator. Here's my log when doing your command: https://pastebin.com/kBCDSj5U I installed some stuff, but I haven't touched drivers yet. :(21:00
roundduckmangoing to reboot21:10
roundduckman_gnarface, I have some success by just installing bumblebee-nvidia, It might be that nvidia-driver is meant for desktops and bumblebee handles similar stuff, while also trying to install intel shit.22:00
roundduckman_That said, I can't use optirun or primusrun to force using Nvidia GPU.22:01
roundduckman_damn it22:01
roundduckman_My problem was that the two packages are meant to conflict (due to also installing Mesa, which plain-jane Nvidia-driver hates), as I noticed, and if I only install Nvidia, the stupid driver doesn't work and I would need to reinstall22:05
roundduckman_It doesn't work because I got a mobile 1050 ti22:05
DeeEffHey all, having some graphics / login problems related to logind I think. I get "logind integration requires -keeptty and -keeptty was not provided, disabling logind integration"23:02
DeeEffWanted to know if there's a good way around this.23:03
DeeEffI want to use lightdm as my display manager, but it doesn't seem to be working23:03
golinuxDeeEff: Some windows managers are incompatible with certain DEs backend23:15
golinuxMight be something in the release notes: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt23:16
DeeEffYeah, but in the past I've always just used awesomewm with lightdm23:17
DeeEffAlso this is ceres so ascii stuff may not be relevant23:17
golinuxVery little work has been done on ceres yet.23:20
DeeEffOh wait, I didn't even have awesome installed from the last set of broken packages I fixed.23:34
DeeEffWat23:34
DeeEffgolinux: yeah, I actually downgraded to ascii, which was a failure, but then upgraded back to ceres23:34
DeeEffIf there's a proper path to downgrade to ascii without it inheriting the same set of problems I already have I'm open to hearing about it23:35
DeeEffThinking my only shot at this point is to actually just reinstall from scratch. :/23:47

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