| ServiceRobot | does anyone know if netifrc is available? | 06:34 |
|---|---|---|
| golinux | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/ | 06:37 |
| ServiceRobot | damn, it's nowhere to be found in any version | 06:38 |
| ServiceRobot | guess I have to configure manual network the debian way | 06:38 |
| ServiceRobot | or I could just use iproute2 | 06:39 |
| golinux | You asked about a list of devuan projects, I found it but you had gone | 06:41 |
| golinux | I'll try to find it again | 06:41 |
| ServiceRobot | me? | 06:41 |
| golinux | I though so. | 06:42 |
| golinux | +t | 06:42 |
| ServiceRobot | I don't remember asking? | 06:42 |
| golinux | OK. Maybe someone else | 06:42 |
| golinux | I'll drop it here anyway https://git.devuan.org/devuan-packages | 06:44 |
| golinux | Ha! It was you!! | 06:47 |
| golinux | 15:27:59 <ServiceRobot> so I'm trying to understand how Devuan sets itself apart from Debian other than the removal of systemd and sysvinit by default | 06:47 |
| golinux | 15:28:18 <ServiceRobot> are packages from debian modified in anyway? | 06:47 |
| Criggie | ServiceRobot: devuan users have a different flavour of arrogance to the regular debian users :-P | 06:48 |
| Criggie | -grin- | 06:48 |
| golinux | ServiceRobot: You see, we do a lot more the init removal. | 06:51 |
| ServiceRobot | oh, that was answered yesterday by you guys though | 06:51 |
| ServiceRobot | "different flavour of arrogance". that's a bold claim | 06:52 |
| golinux | I was not awake when the question was asked. | 06:52 |
| ServiceRobot | then how did you know I asked it? | 06:53 |
| rrq | "when a tree falls in the forest, golinux can hear it, awake or not":) | 06:54 |
| ServiceRobot | should I quote you on that? | 06:55 |
| ServiceRobot | from reading the debian wiki, ifupdown is used to configure the network manually. but ifupdown is legacy, I thought? | 06:57 |
| ServiceRobot | it seems ifupdown2 is an option which depends on iproute2 | 06:58 |
| Criggie | ServiceRobot: I'm just a smartarse - not being serious. | 07:01 |
| ServiceRobot | nah, we gucci. but what's the best way to manually configure the network? | 07:02 |
| ServiceRobot | I just finished taking my final in networking and passed the class | 07:02 |
| ServiceRobot | it seems ifupdown2 looks good. it depends on iproute2 and is written in python | 07:03 |
| ServiceRobot | idk if it's a good option though | 07:03 |
| Criggie | Personally I want my network to stay where I put it statically. So its edit /etc/network/interfaces for me | 07:04 |
| Criggie | Less fun for those who move about a lot | 07:04 |
| ServiceRobot | right, ifupdown uses /etc/network/interfaces | 07:04 |
| Criggie | yup - no Netowkr Mangler here . | 07:05 |
| ServiceRobot | I don't want a network manager for a static server | 07:05 |
| Criggie | exactly! | 07:05 |
| ServiceRobot | but should I give ifupdown2 a try? mind you I've gotten my network working before by putting iprout2 commands in rc.local but it seems it's a good solution | 07:06 |
| gnarface | it doesn't really add features you're likely to need | 07:07 |
| gnarface | you shouldn't have to touch either one though, the scripts should handle it for you, all you need to do is correctly edit /etc/network/interfaces | 07:07 |
| ServiceRobot | I don't know. the reload feature looks like something I'd use for testing | 07:07 |
| Criggie | Simple tools are good - they just work. | 07:07 |
| ServiceRobot | thing is I need ifupdown. it's what parses /etc/network/interfaces no? | 07:08 |
| gnarface | i thought it was the init script | 07:08 |
| gnarface | /etc/init.d/networking | 07:08 |
| ServiceRobot | "This package provides the tools ifup and ifdown which may be used to configure (or, respectively, deconfigure) network interfaces based on interface definitions in the file /etc/network/interfaces." | 07:08 |
| ServiceRobot | hang on a minute | 07:08 |
| gnarface | oh, we're talking about the same thing | 07:08 |
| gnarface | ifupdown is the package name that the /etc/init.d/networking script is in | 07:09 |
| ServiceRobot | but it also provides the interfaces file? | 07:09 |
| gnarface | i'm not sure about that, something does but it comes from a postinst script probably... | 07:10 |
| gnarface | probably though | 07:10 |
| gnarface | probably a postinst script in the ifupdown package, but also maybe multiple packages could provide it | 07:10 |
| ServiceRobot | ya, /etc/init.d/networking runs commands from ifupdown | 07:11 |
| ServiceRobot | but from what I read ifupdown isn't being developed anymore? | 07:11 |
| gnarface | i don't know the answer for that for sure, but i question the relevance | 07:12 |
| gnarface | this isn't the type of thing you want being "constantly developed" underneath your running system | 07:13 |
| ServiceRobot | well I don't mean constant. I'm wondering if it's abandoned is what I mean | 07:14 |
| ServiceRobot | ifupdown2 looks interesting | 07:14 |
| gnarface | no, abandoned isn't the same thing as finished | 07:14 |
| ServiceRobot | I've heard other people mention the distinction | 07:15 |
| gnarface | as long as you're using jessie or ascii, the version in there won't be changed or updated in any incompatible ways, regardless of what upstream is doing, so it doesn't matter whether it's abandoned. | 07:15 |
| gnarface | the version in the distro will be maintained regardless, during that major release | 07:15 |
| gnarface | now, it might affect whether it's in future versions | 07:16 |
| ServiceRobot | I suppose. I like to think ahead though | 07:16 |
| gnarface | beowulf is still up in the air and could be changed | 07:16 |
| ServiceRobot | that's what I'm wondering | 07:16 |
| gnarface | ceres could be changed out from underneath you any day | 07:16 |
| gnarface | but eventually beowulf will also get frozen | 07:16 |
| ServiceRobot | ifupdown2 is written in python and has a couple new things added. I like python so that's something I guess? | 07:16 |
| ServiceRobot | may as well use it | 07:16 |
| gnarface | and all these decisions are made upstream, btw, at Debian | 07:16 |
| gnarface | Devuan just inherits their decisions on package versions | 07:17 |
| ServiceRobot | and makes changes if it doesn't align with the no-systemd motive | 07:17 |
| ServiceRobot | sort of a middle-man for me | 07:17 |
| ServiceRobot | in any case I better get to work setting up devuan on my server machine | 07:21 |
| ServiceRobot | you guys have been very informative | 07:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >> Hence, sooner or later we'll fix all these things for you anyway...<< [Poettering] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=739593#54 BWAHAHAHA | 08:50 |
| MinceR | nice to see that site-specific configuration is done in the upstream source code, by client request | 08:53 |
| MinceR | "someone asked for this setting to be changed so we just forced it on everyone else!" | 08:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yep, and "we break it for everxybody but a few guys (those who asked for it) but don't worry, *eventually* we will fix all this for you again" | 08:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | what a blatant obvious lie - when they don't fix it right away same time as introducing the default change, OTHER DEVS have to fix stuff | 08:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | came to it via https://wiki.debian.org/systemd#Shared_bind_mounts which explains how nasty the situation really is | 08:56 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | >> Thus, when you do this: mount --bind / $CHROOT mount --bind /dev/ $CHROOT/dev umount $CHROOT/dev then /dev will be unmounted in your base/parent system as well! << OHMY | 08:57 |
| MinceR | lol | 08:59 |
| MinceR | good thing it will probably be busy and thus not umounted | 08:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | don't bet on it | 08:59 |
| MinceR | not sure what this will do to $CHROOT though, probably that won't be possible to unmount either | 09:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | have fun trying it ;-D | 09:00 |
| MinceR | well, it's not like i'll ever do system installation or rescue with lendows live media anyway | 09:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | a simple umount /dev should do for hours of fun | 09:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (umount /dev) seen sth similar when a friend rm -r /scratchbox (a chroot dir for a qemu env). He wasn't able to recover the machine via ssh | 09:03 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | obviously the problem was the bindmount of /dev and all the divices in /dev got rm'ed | 09:04 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | totally different topic: I get a random behavior on starting up a daemon servicing a USB HID (UPS). It only starts up a statistical one of 4 times, failing with some errors for the rest. How to tackle this? | 09:09 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://pastebin.com/20zwNkcr | 09:12 |
| * DocScrutinizer05 glares at USB | 09:13 | |
| detha | DocScrutinizer05: force it to use that specific protocol? | 09:17 |
| detha | Sounds like one of those where the UPS gets confused by the driver trying various protocols, and depending on timing it may work or not | 09:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm. I don't see how the protocol introduces statistical error, but maybe worth a try anyway - if possible | 09:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, UPS getting 'upset' might be a valid explanation | 09:18 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I'm looking into USB reset | 09:19 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | virtual mating cycle | 09:19 |
| MinceR | kinky | 09:19 |
| detha | iirc that protocol is just a variant of 'serial-over-USB', with a USBmaster-to-serial adapter in the UPS | 09:20 |
| detha | So it's just sending a few bytes over a tunneled serial link | 09:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | then, >>No supported devices found.<< seems to suggest USB lib doesn't even find the HID devices to probe for protocols | 09:20 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | detha: (ser over USB) exactly | 09:21 |
| detha | True. You can also force it to use a particular USBid too, maybe that helps | 09:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I already do | 09:21 |
| MinceR | i don't think it's supposed to be serial if it's HID | 09:21 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I'm totally lost with this. I tried both | 09:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it's totally obscure what actually goes on there | 09:22 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the device shows as HID in lsusb for example | 09:22 |
| detha | Yeah. sometimes running the driver itself, with -dddd, shows something. I remember spending 2 days getting one of those to work | 09:23 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://pastebin.com/20zwNkcr | 09:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | dang, sorry | 09:24 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://pastebin.com/gvz0m00w | 09:25 |
| detha | oddness indeed | 09:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | I tend to blame the USB lib | 09:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://pastebin.com/qZhd5Pvb | 09:37 |
| detha | It certainly looks that way. Anything interesting in dmesg, like the device disappearing/reapeering ? | 09:42 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope | 09:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, waitz | 09:47 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | nope: https://pastebin.com/Wp9E38Cq | 09:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | (my dmesg is var/log/messages | 09:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | ) | 09:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | IOW dmesg doesn't log at all since rsyslogd started | 09:54 |
| detha | so much for that theory, not the very low-level USB stuff then | 09:55 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | who asked if systemd had an editor already? journalctl --since "9:40" !vim | 09:56 |
| detha | oooh. does it also have !emacs ? | 09:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | sure | 09:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at very least no privilege escalation built in ;-P | 09:58 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | at least no OBVIOUS IMMEDIATE ...* | 09:59 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | detha: https://pastebin.com/W8F1ciGC | 10:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | comes in chunks | 10:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | with seconds of pause in between | 10:06 |
| detha | 30 seconds? That's USB lib/driver problems yeah | 10:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | whatchagonnado when it explodes into your face? | 10:10 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | this also explains a few trouble I've seen with my USB attached camera "storage device" | 10:11 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | MIP? | 10:12 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | PIP | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | err PTP | 10:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://pastebin.com/uT9XT7k0 | 10:15 |
| detha | I would blame the driver. Got any other machines with older or newer kernels you can try the device on? | 10:17 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | it the driver (or HW) no doubt | 10:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | other machine hmmmm hard | 10:33 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | other USB port maybe | 10:34 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | UGH!! https://pastebin.com/dAfEGr4E | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | NB the error though | 10:35 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | unplug-replug makes it behave like this on the original USB port as well | 10:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://pastebin.com/uhmTHWRz | 10:38 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | seems like the product type HID got not detected (yet?) on the fast, last, one? lists "error" for a few values where the slow one has "iProduct 2 USB to Serial" and "iConfiguration 3 20100813" and "iInterface 4 Sample HID" and (HID) "Report Descriptor: (length is 27)" | 10:45 |
| detha | Sounds like breakage in the hub talking to the device | 10:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmmm | 10:48 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | the second one, with the "errors" (no HID detected) is after replugging and founf on a sibling USB port as well | 10:53 |
| fr33domlover | Hi people | 10:53 |
| fr33domlover | I'm trying to migrate a fresh debian 9 to devuan ascii | 10:53 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | so the defect in hub would be to *detect* "HID"? | 10:53 |
| fr33domlover | https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/migrate-to-ascii | 10:53 |
| fr33domlover | I'm doing apt-get install sysvinit-core | 10:54 |
| fr33domlover | But no such package | 10:54 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | detha: hey, look at this https://pastebin.com/EG5p0wuN - it's initial lsusb after plugging to a genuine USB2.0 external hub | 10:56 |
| gnarface | fr33domlover: usually it's a mistake in your /etc/apt/sources.list or you forgot to run `apt-get update` first | 10:57 |
| fr33domlover | gnarface, thanks i'll check. it's a fresh vps, just created, didn't do anything yet ^_^ | 10:57 |
| detha | DocScrutinizer05: I was thinking about that - putting an external hub inbetween the two. What does nutdrv do with that setup? | 10:57 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | detha: I.E "iManufacturer 1 INNO TECH" (not "error") *and* fast | 10:58 |
| detha | A USB hub works like a network router, as far as I understand | 10:59 |
| djph | detha: more like a network hub, aaiu, but meh | 11:00 |
| djph | *aiui | 11:00 |
| detha | djph: maybe more like a switch. But definitely not like a traditional network hub | 11:00 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | detha: `/usr/sbin/upsdrvctl -DDD start` 4 of 4 succeed | 11:01 |
| detha | DocScrutinizer05: the good news: it works. the bad news: it's a kludge with more points of failure ;) | 11:01 |
| djph | detha: yeah, words ... I need coffee | 11:13 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | actually, it's still broken | 11:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | https://pastebin.com/qfqq3Tkt | 11:28 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | check for ################ and ++++++++++++++++++++ | 11:28 |
| detha | no logic in there, random timing things. | 11:32 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | if any logic then: a USB mating cycle almost always fixes it. And a `systemctl start nut-driver.service` breaks it for good until such mating-cycle | 11:35 |
| detha | yeah. Something the driver does confuses things. | 11:47 |
| fishfear1 | how well does devuan support chromebooks? it installs just fine on my Acer C720, but apparently the wifi does not work. ip addr shows the interface, but there is no address (through default install) -- if there is something else to be done then that is my fault. I haven't touched debian in so long and things aren't where I expect them to be :s | 12:19 |
| djph | did you connect to a WLAN? | 12:22 |
| djph | I mean, that's kind of key in order to get an IP address :) | 12:22 |
| gnarface | fishfear1: i don't know but it's possible you might just be missing non-free firmware. do some google searches for the wifi device model# | 12:30 |
| fishfear1 | djph: .... I may actually be a moron tonight ^^; I have an idea about what variant of PEBKAC has afflicted my situation. thanks | 12:35 |
| fishfear1 | I'm so used to setting up wired connections that I forgot this isn't wired-capable. so... oops | 12:35 |
| djph | err... what? | 12:37 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | well, actually you *could* set up WLAN with static IP as well. Similar to wired eth | 12:55 |
| fishfear1 | I'm so used to setting up my [static] address by hand with normal text files in a console that I tried doing that with my laptop here while forgetting I need to use some gui applet (or know the process of doing that by hand also; which I don't) | 12:57 |
| fishfear1 | tldr I'm an idiot due to bad habits. don't worry | 12:57 |
| gnarface | the file is /etc/network/interfaces | 12:57 |
| gnarface | the man page is just `man interfaces` | 12:58 |
| fishfear1 | thanks gnarface | 13:01 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | fun question: how do you list the NAMES (not values) of all $LC* ? | 13:06 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | echo $LC* gives the values | 13:06 |
| detha | set |grep LC_ | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | :-) | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer05 | set |grep ^LC | 13:09 |
| nacelle | env might be better than set, where some shells dont have a set | 20:58 |
| nacelle | (I think) | 20:58 |
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