freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2018-08-21

Beerbelottgnarface: Sent by email yes00:31
Beerbelottman page of reportbug clearly talks about the Debian email address00:31
Beerbelottand nowhere the configuration files talks about a possibility of overloading it00:31
gnarfacehmmm, there's gotta be a way00:33
gnarfacealso, the docs might just be wrong00:35
gnarfacei don't know00:35
gnarfacehmmm, mabye not00:36
gnarfaceah ha!  Beerbelott i found it in /usr/share/doc/reportbug/README.developers.gz00:37
gnarfacescroll down to where it says BTS selection00:38
gnarfacei assume that will work00:38
Centurion_Dangolinux: is fundamentally broken... I'm considering whether we can shoe-horn a solution that reports bugs to gitlab for devuan forked packages and forward all others to debian... but we'd have to make reportbug also be able to capture those cases where a fork is needed.00:41
gmcastili hate update-alternatives....anyone else ?07:20
gmcastilhow do I use update-alternatives to default to bash instead of bash07:22
debdogyou meant bash instead of dash? isn't that done in /bin07:28
debdoglink /bin/sh07:29
gmcastilwell, the update-alternatives thinger is supposed to manage that stuff i think07:29
debdogthere's nothing in /etc/alternatives which indicates that07:29
debdogthough I am not certain07:30
gmcastilsame thing with awk / mawk and rsh / ssh07:30
gmcastil$ ll /bin/sh07:30
gmcastillrwxrwxrwx 1 root 4 Nov  8  2014 /bin/sh -> dash07:30
debdogI just altered that link to bash07:31
gmcastilwell yeah, as root you can do that obviously07:31
gmcastilhuh, so since it doesnt link to /etc/alternatives/sh then its not managed by update-alternatives then ?07:31
gmcastillike this07:31
gmcastil$ ll /usr/bin/yacc07:31
gmcastillrwxrwxrwx 1 root 22 May  5  2017 /usr/bin/yacc -> /etc/alternatives/yacc07:31
debdogwell, I suppose so.07:32
debdogbut not entirely certain07:32
hollafor users there is chsh(1)08:45
Centurion_Danupdate-alternatives is designed more for automated selection of alternatives then manual selection..10:06
Centurion_Danbut it's easy enough from the command line too.10:29
Centurion_Danread the manpage...10:29
andi89gican anybody give me an advice how to rebuild the data "snapd" from debian? because it is based on systemd -.-12:47
fsmithred_andi89gi, did you get the source code?12:52
andi89gisource code?12:56
fsmithred_yeah, you want to rebuild a package, so you need the code that is used to compile it12:56
fsmithred_you're running ascii?12:56
andi89gii am running ascii12:57
fsmithred_ok, so change to an empty directory and run12:57
fsmithred_apt-get source snapd12:57
fsmithred_you need to have deb-src lines enabled in sources.list for this to work12:58
andi89giso i have to edit it right? nano/ etc/sources.list?12:59
fsmithred_uncomment the deb-src lines, save and exit, then run 'apt-get update'13:01
andi89giahhh the file is empty - nothing is written there13:01
fsmithred_you're in the wrong file13:01
fsmithred_start with this13:01
fsmithred_cat /etc/apt/sources.list13:02
andi89giyeah i have done  it now13:02
fsmithred_were the lines commented out?13:03
andi89giwell they are active / enabled13:04
fsmithred_apt-get source snapd13:06
fsmithred_then to see what you're up against...13:06
fsmithred_grep -rn systemctl snapd-2.21/ |wc -l13:06
fsmithred_oh, leave off the |wc -l13:06
fsmithred_I'll tell you that it's 12213:06
andi89gioh yea:D13:07
fsmithred_you would have to re-write all the functions that use that command13:08
fsmithred_is there some snap package in particular that you want?13:08
Centurion_Danthat depends... what language is it in?13:09
andi89gipuuuuh bloddy hell13:09
fsmithred_Centurion_Dan, what's a quick way to tell?13:09
andi89githey are packages like steam, skype i would like to use - or other softwares which are up to date13:10
Centurion_Dantake a look at the debian/rules - if there is a rule for enabling systemd support13:10
fsmithred_skype works13:10
fsmithred_dh $@ --buildsystem=golang --with=golang --fail-missing --with systemd --builddirectory=_build13:11
fsmithred_also appears in some overrides13:11
andi89gipuuh ok - so there is a lot of work to do13:11
fsmithred_dh_auto_install -O--buildsystem=golang13:12
andi89gi  - i  found this in their wiki13:12
fsmithred_people are using steam without snapd13:15
Centurion_Danok.. there is a flag in debian/rules "--with systemd"13:17
andi89giah ok..?13:17
fsmithred_remove that and build package?13:18
fsmithred_change deps, too13:18
andi89giok i will do it - sry for "stupid" questions - but do we have a "wiki" how to start rebuilding packages?13:19
fsmithred_there are many sites that describe debian packaging13:20
fsmithred_I don't know which one is good to start with13:20
fsmithred_most are too detailed13:20
Centurion_Danandi89gi: do you want to get your hands dirty...13:21
fsmithred_he does. He said so yesterday. I'm a witness.13:21
fsmithred_looks to me like the build-deps for snapd will install13:22
Centurion_DanI've seen that before... until they start... and then find it hard... especially quilt packages..13:22
fsmithred_debian packaging is a big dark forest for me13:23
fsmithred_I know a few paths through it13:23
Centurion_Danso looks like systemd uses sdnotify and runs a service...13:23
andi89gii want to my hands dirty Centurion?13:23
andi89gihmm well debian packaging i found a tutorial about it - to build deb packages... :/13:24
Centurion_Dannext question - quick and dirty or do you want to contribute so others benefit...13:24
fsmithred_yeah, if it's just for yourself, there's a little less to do13:24
fsmithred_might be good to start that way13:24
Centurion_Danfor me that's the sort of thing that can take anything from 30 mins to a day to properly fork a package for devuan, and get it building...13:25
Centurion_Danand I've probably got more experience doing this for Devuan then anybody here....13:25
andi89giwell i want to contribute so others benefit...   ; wow13:26
fsmithred_ Devuan Packaging Guide13:27
andi89gii am glad that i have configured succesfully wifi and the drivers :-D  it was a bit tricky...but at the end it works ;)13:27
fsmithred_yeah, wifi can be difficult sometimes13:28
andi89giyeah - true13:29
andi89giactually to sum up - if it devuan is configured - it works fluently, stable and fast13:30
fsmithred_yeah, I'm pretty happy with it13:34
fsmithred_andi89gi, you know about appimage? It's a similar idea. I know at least one appimage works on devuan.13:35
andi89giyeah, me too. i tried a lot of distros - for me it is important to have programms for programming, steam, skype, math tools (should be uptodate); i don't really like old versions....:/13:36
andi89gii know appimage good idea13:36
Centurion_Dan so snapd is for running snap packages - basically a docker like container with everything needed except the kernel....13:37
andi89giok i see - well actually i could download directly the programm - but it would be better to integrate it with devuan  ....13:40
Centurion_DanI hate that sort of thing... it's prone to security issues if as no-one is going to download and update their containers...13:43
andi89giright - it depends on the person, if the update his container and versions. what do you personally prefer?13:44
Centurion_Danand your relying on the container devs to actually keep track of all the security issues of each piece of software they bundle into the container...13:44
Centurion_DanFrom an InfoSEC perspective - it's a disaster waiting to happen...13:45
andi89giyes that's true to wait...13:46
andi89giyou prefer downloading a programm directly or making it suitable with devuan?13:47
Centurion_Dandistro specific packaging... that way you need a fix for openssl issue like heart bleed, just install it - for containerised apps you have to still install the fix for your operating system and then if your lucky and app maintainers get there shit sorted, you'll have also replace every containerised app ... if they don't you're still vulnerable.13:48
fsmithred_I rarely use anything that's not in the repository13:48
Centurion_Danandi89gi: yes - package it for devuan13:48
andi89giCenturion: ah okay i will have a look on heart leed - before i have to reinstall devuan to 64bit - unfortunatly i put a 32bit image, although my notebook can work with 64bit -.-13:50
Centurion_Danfsmithred_: If it's not packaged for Devuan (or Debian and not depending on systemd) then if I really want it, I'll package it.13:50
andi89gifsmithred: okay, i can understand your opinion13:51
fsmithred_it's not that I'm opposed to using outside stuff, but everything I normally need is already available13:52
andi89giwhat about eclipse, or android studio? especially the last one - i am not sure if it works without systemd.... maybe it has to be packaged to init ?13:52
Centurion_Danandi89gi: heartbleed was a big vulnerabity in openssl a couple of years back... completely blindsided everybody and exposed everybody to the risk of what was essentially a gaping security hole that made ssl completely broken and trivial to bypass.13:53
andi89gifsmithred: actually you're right and i agree to you. Most of the software is avaible..;13:53
andi89giCenturion: oha .... thx for explaining it to me. i really appreciate it to learn more about the details/discussion..:)13:55
fsmithred_looks like eclipse will install13:55
andi89giyea eclipse is sourced in devuan; maybe it is not the right way always to use the newest software?13:57
fsmithred_for everyday use, no. for development, yes13:58
andi89giah you would admire to me to download the recent software directly from the homepage?13:58
fsmithred_if you want to package something for devuan, you should get the source code from the upstream git repo (if there is one)13:59
fsmithred_if you're just doing it for yourself, you might need a specific version, old or new. It depends on your goal.14:00
andi89giok yea i see; because i want to contribute here with you - a) source code  is important and b) the wiki link you've sent here? ; but it would be better to have a new version?14:01
Centurion_Danwhat is the latest upstream version?14:04
Centurion_DanDevuan/Debian has 3.8.114:04
fsmithred_unless you need something specific for jessie or ascii, it makes sense to develop stuff for beowulf/ceres14:04
Centurion_Danfsmithred_: beowulf isn't in a working state yet...14:05
fsmithred_yeah, I know.14:05
Centurion_Danand I wouldn't be surprised if ceres in a bad way too...14:05
fsmithred_it is. There are newer packages in ascii.14:06
Centurion_DanI'm working on getting something done about that..14:06
fsmithred_make it snow?14:07
fsmithred_get everyone off the beach and back in front of their computers14:07
Centurion_Danyeah.... I've been working on tidying up the CI system... upgraded jenkins today and the host it's on...14:08
Centurion_Dandidn't solve my current problem...14:08
fsmithred_what's that14:09
andi89gibtw i have registered on devuan git hub ... but i didn't receive any confirmation mail .... ;  than i've registered on github and it works ...14:10
Centurion_Danwe don't use github14:12
andi89gigrrr sry my mistake with github; - my account is registered; but i've tried to send again a confirmation mail but without success; spam folder ..nothing...normal forlder nithing14:13
fsmithred_are you able to log in?14:14
Centurion_Danwhat username?14:15
andi89gino i can't because first i have to confirm it with the email14:15
andi89giandi89gi same like here ;)14:15
fsmithred_I don't think I have that power there14:16
Centurion_Dan Email:  Email: kartz@gmx.net14:16
andi89giright centurion14:17
Centurion_Danthat's your email?14:17
Centurion_Dan I've manually confirmed it... you should be able to login now...14:17
andi89githx centurion! :)14:18
andi89giit works now14:18
andi89giwow a lot of projects14:19
fsmithred_Centurion_Dan, how do I delete a project?14:22
Centurion_Dan[general] scroll down to "remove project"14:24
andi89gi Centurion_Dan:  so i could start a project with snapd i guess?14:25
fsmithred_I'm not finding Advanced14:27
andi89giok cool - i will start in the evening. for any questions there is an irc for dev14:27
Centurion_Danif your serious about package development you should get pbuilder14:27
Centurion_Danandi89gi: #devuan-dev14:27
Centurion_Danpbuilder with gitbuildpackage and jenkins-debian-glue-buildenv-devuan14:29
Centurion_Danthat way you can build packages locally without spoiling your current system14:29
Centurion_Danand cowbuilder14:31
andi89giah thx Centurion for the hints14:32
Centurion_Danthat homework will keep you busy for a night or 2 ;-)14:32
andi89gii've lot to do first reinstalling my lap to 64bit devuan and afterwards installing the software for development; but i am happy to contribute with you all ;)14:33
andi89giahhh :-D hehe  no problem14:33
fsmithred_found it.14:36
andi89gibtw are there plans to test  desktop "budgie"?14:44
fsmithred_I haven't heard of anyone installing it14:47
fsmithred_I got a vm I could try it in14:47
andi89giyea maybe we could work together on it? would be interesting to get it worked for devuan14:49
fsmithred_it won't install14:50
fsmithred_This is a no-dbus installation. I thought I disabled that pin, but that was several installs ago.14:51
andi89giah okay14:51
andi89giwell i am here later on , i have work now ; i'm a teacher and have to work with pupils:D14:51
fsmithred_it's installing14:52
fsmithred_but I might run out of space. It's on 5GB virtual drive.14:52
andi89giok  ;)  see you later here again; i'll ask you than;   ahh i see ;14:52
fsmithred_you leaving?14:53
fsmithred_I'll know in a few minutes if this works14:53
fsmithred_oh, it helps if I read what you wrote. See you later.14:55
nemo  "Upgrading from Ubuntu" is blank  - I was wondering if anyone knew of a good guide for gotchas15:35
nemoI'm looking to convert a few ubuntu 14.04 desktops and dev "servers" to devuan15:35
nemothey have various PPAs.  Oracle Java for example15:35
nemoI assume it can't be as simple as just modifying the sources file. there's always some cross-distro surprise, even for closely related ones15:38
gnarfacenemo: the PPAs could be a problem.  if you can, it would be a good idea to remove everything installed from there first.  anything that is a newer version than what is in the devuan version you're upgrading to will be a roadblock if it's still installed at upgrade time15:58
golinuxnemo: Ubuntu is not Debian much less Devuan . . .16:05
nemognarface: sure16:14
nemothat's 'sactly why I'm asking ☺16:15
nemoand it'd be nice if it was possible to transition the PPAs. esp the oracle java webupd8 one16:15
nemounless ofc debian has a package for that now16:15
nemoor. hm. oracle does16:15
nemoeverything else is probably fine16:16
Centurion_Dannemo: isn't openjdk sufficient?16:32
sixwheeledbeastWhat PPAs? openjdk should just drop in.16:46
gnarfaceit should, but some commercial software will still explicitly demand the official java16:47
nemoCenturion_Dan: unfortunately no17:38
nemoCenturion_Dan: using various tools that require the oracle JDK17:39
nemoCenturion_Dan: Oracle's Application Server, Atlassian, Oracle's database17:39
nemoCenturion_Dan: I have more control over the dev instances which is why they are linux at all17:39
nemosome atlassian stuff does work on openjdk, but not all their products unfortunately17:42
nemoand frankly we're lucky management approved atlassian or we'd still be using Rational17:42
* gnarface shudders 17:51
nemough. devuan ascii is still on gimp 2.818:09
nemoone more thing a PPA would be handy for18:09
golinuxnemo: Have you looked in backports?18:40
nemogolinux: oh. good point. well, since ascii was so recent..19:53
golinuxLooks like Beowulf has gimp-2.10.2-1 so that might be in backports.20:03
golinuxnemo: ^^^20:03
nemohum. the installer doesn't include commented-out backports by default? I have to manually add in synaptic? boo20:23
SmilexHey. I just installed devuan, and lost my internet connection mid install, so I decided to continue it, and fix stuff after the fact. What program does devuan have by default, that does what dhcpcd does?20:27
WonkaSmilex: isc-dhcp-client for example20:33
premobosshi all. vlc still not possible tu install on devuan 2.0 because of unmet dependences.20:44
premobossthere is a bugs page where i can follow the progres otf all devuan bugs?20:45
buZzvlc? really?20:46
buZzworks fine here ..20:46
premobossbuZz, let me do test, i will bastebin you.20:55
buZzmake sure to apt update first :)20:55
premobossof course20:56
premoboss some messages are not in english, but are the usual "error" strings from apt.20:57
buZzdid you enable non-free repos</20:58
nemogolinux: doesn't seem like it btw21:00
premobossbuZz, wait.21:01
buZzi wait for no man!21:01
* buZz starts the revolution21:01
premobossascii main contrib non-free- are present in sources.conf21:02
buZznon-free- doesnt exist21:02
premobossbuZz, if you were not prepared to wait, you was not onto a IRC channel :-)21:02
buZzdeb ascii-security main contrib non-free21:02
buZzdeb ascii main non-free contrib21:03
buZzpremoboss: then try apt-get install -f21:03
premobossi add that repo and test again.21:03
buZzoh ascii-security? not sure if its needed, it was in my sources by default21:04
premobossanyway, it works!21:04
buZzsweet, so it was non-free- vs non-free ?21:05
premobossmy otgher repos sems bad21:05
buZzor just adding ascii-security?21:05
buZzoh, bad mirror?21:05
premobossmmm i duno.21:05
premobossi have and deb.devuan.org21:06
buZzuse deb.devuan ,  the other one doesnt work anymore afaik21:07
premobossi set my source.conf21:07
premobossgotta go, real life call me.21:08

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