freenode/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2018-08-22

TwistedFateis it possible to disable wait for the eth0 to lock on to a network/ip before boot?10:58
SmilexHey. On boot, my system halts a long time while it tries to get a lock on eth0. How can I disable that?10:59
sixwheeledbeast^I wouldn't think that it would, what if eth0 is down for example. Maybe expand on why you think that and which init you have. Someone may be able to point you in the right direction then.11:02
SmilexI think that it would, because I just installed devuan, which involved a couple of restarts, and everytime it did11:03
Smilexeven if my ethernet cable was connected11:03
TwistedFatesixwheeledbeast^: it also happened to me11:18
TwistedFatewhen i switched to static ip and disabled dhcp, it was gone11:19
sixwheeledbeast^Obviously errors or issues are possible, as I say maybe try checking the boot logs and expanding on your system configuration.11:24
sixwheeledbeast^I am imagining minutes of delay but you didn't mention how long either, for example11:26
xkr47hi, regarding donations, have you considered Patreon and similar monthly payment things?11:36
KatolaZxkr47: not yet11:40
KatolaZthere have been not many people asking for that11:40
xkr47I constantly benefit from devuan so monthly payment feels more right11:40
Smilexsixwheeledbeast^: sorry for late reply. It halts for about a minute, and I just installed devuan12:28
Smilexin dmesg, it just says that link is not ready. But during startup, when it halts, it is "ifup" that's waiting12:30
UsLHello vuans! I bought a ssd to replace my old hdd in my laptop and I have a adapter that can read and write to and from disks via usb. What I want is to make a 1:1 copy of the old disk to the new one so that I can just swap the disks. What is the best approach to accomplish this? is dd sufficient enough and what parameters should I have13:08
UsLthe clone procedure is done on a second laptopn with devuan installed on it.13:09
sixwheeledbeastSmilex: ifup: waiting for lock?13:16
Smilexsixwheeledbeast: yes13:16
sixwheeledbeastSlimex: So init is bringing up eth0 instead of a daemon.13:20
sixwheeledbeastSmilex: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1688 this maybe of use, bottom of the thread.13:21
Smilexsixwheeledbeast: I used the net installer, but my net died during install, so I started from the very minimal setup. Might be that I haven't installed something13:21
Smilexsixwheeledbeast: but I want to run ifup eth0 after startup. Removing this will disable DHCP on eth0, right?13:27
KatolaZSmilex: how is eth0 speficied in your /etc/network/interfaces?13:33
KatolaZit should be "allow-hotplug"13:33
KatolaZlike "allow-hotplug eth0"13:33
xkr47Smilex, "ifup" will trigger dhcp if eth0 is configured to use dhcp, or static ip if so configured.13:46
xkr47*** WARNING: if you are replacing sysv-rc by OpenRC, then you must ***14:47
xkr47... the command listed after this warning could perhaps be stored in a script?14:48
xkr47it could be removed during next reboot14:48
xkr47first boot after installing openrc and rebooting according to afforementioned procedure, machine did not start and could not connect over ssh. "acpi power off" did not shut down the machine. hard poweroff + startup -> machine works fine. will investigate logs.15:02
xkr47(ascii)15:02
xkr47could not find anything in the logs15:07
nemohm interesting15:43
nemoI have a .deb I was installing that I need for work15:44
nemoit's an awful one15:44
nemovmware-view 415:44
nemoanyway. it's blowing up and sucking up all my CPU15:44
nemoand I looked into why15:44
nemo        GROUP_ID=$(cat /etc/group | grep -r "^usb" | cut -d ':' -f 3)15:44
nemoso the "-r" there is just stupid15:44
nemowhat I'm curious about is15:44
nemowhy did this not crash before15:44
nemoit appears to be new grep behaviour - wondering if it's a devuan grep specific thing or a general grep change15:45
nemothat is,  cat foo | grep -r   instead of just grepping stdin, does a recursive on current folder.15:45
nemoused to be grep -r foo  would expect stdin. but not anymore15:46
nemoI wonder if devuan does some alias15:46
nemono... /bin/grep -r foo  does same thing15:46
* nemo repackages the .deb15:46
nemohttps://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/grep.git/commit/?id=faf6ea13b3281a2004f5bfd1487708d1ba50a6c515:47
nemogrep's fault15:47
KatolaZnemo: devuan has not touched grep, AFAICT15:49
nemoKatolaZ: yeah. this is just gnu grep changing15:51
nemoand a badly written .deb postinst15:51
nemounfortunately vmware sucks at linux packaging and I'm not sure any newer .deb exists ☹15:51
KatolaZnemo: I think vmware is not packaged by Debian, is it?15:52
nemoKatolaZ: naw. this one was created by VMWare15:53
nemoKatolaZ: in our workplace archive it is in legacy, but there's nothing else out ther15:53
nemoYou can't even find newer than 3.5 on the VMWare site15:53
nemoat one point they had a packaging partnership with ubuntu but that's gone15:53
nemoso I just hang onto the .debs and dpkg -i the required libpng12 and openssl0.9.8 even though they are probably not safe ☹15:54
nemoreally sucks for something like this. ah well.15:54
nemoI try to use it as little as possible15:54
nemoaw hell. this !@#$ postinst16:09
nemoit wants a usbfs mount16:09
nemohm16:09
nemoit's only for USB redirection though.16:10
nemowhich I don't actually need right now16:10
nemoso I'm just going to disable that16:10
nemoaaaagh whatever happened to ia32-libs in debian land?17:35
nemolooks like vmware-view was built 32 bit only17:35
gnarfacegoogle multiarch17:36
nemognarface: did17:36
gnarfacehttps://wiki.debian.org/Multiarch/HOWTO17:36
gnarfacedid you find this one?17:36
nemoyes17:36
nemoalready enabled the arch - what was less-than-clear was what libs that used to be in ia32-libs now had to be installed17:37
nemognarface: also nothing changed after update/upgrade17:37
gnarfacenemo: apt-get install vmware-view:i38617:39
gnarface"ia32-libs" was just a stopgap fix and not a good one17:39
nemognarface: that package doesn't actually exist17:40
gnarfaceit was a bundle of the most commonly required 32-bit dependencies17:40
nemoI'm running:17:40
gnarfaceyea, it's deprecated now.  with multiarch17:40
nemodpkg -i 64_vmware-view-client_4.0.1-235010_i386_nousb.deb17:40
gnarfacewith multiarch, you just install [packagename]:i38617:40
nemook...17:40
nemoand for a .deb like that?17:40
gnarfacethe point of multiarch is that the *:amd64 and *:i386 packages should play nice now (mostly they do)17:40
nemoby "that package" I mean vmware-view:i386 does not exist17:41
gnarfaceoh i see17:41
nemowhat I need is to install this i386 .deb17:41
nemoand be able to actually run it17:41
nemoonce upon a time ia32-libs was the trivial way to do so17:41
nemoI have no idea even what command to replace that with now17:41
nemoand the multiarch wiki page does not explain what it used to offer17:41
gnarfaceright17:41
nemoor what I would install to get approximately same behaviour17:41
gnarfacewhen you ran "dpkg -i 64_vmware-view-client_4.0.1-235010_i386_nousb.deb" after enabling multi-arch, it should have either worked, or told you what you're missing17:42
* nemo removes it and reinstalls17:42
nemognarface: it did not17:43
nemocan't even ldd it since ldd does not recognise it17:43
gnarfacebummer.  well, if it wasn't actually packaged right (no dependencies listed) you'll have to actually look them up from their website.  just remember that you append ":i386" now to the package name if you want the 32-bit one17:43
nemo17:44
nemognarface: their website will not have this info either17:44
nemogaaaah17:44
nemowelllp17:44
gnarfacereally?  why not?17:44
gnarfacehang on...17:44
nemolet's see if I can find what ia32-libs actually packaged17:44
nemognarface: because this package is not even lsited on their website17:44
gnarfacewell it's unlikely that you actually need ALL those libs17:44
nemoexplained prior I think17:44
nemognarface: maybe not, but it's easier to just get past this at this point17:44
nemohave burnt like all morning trying to connect to my work vm17:44
gnarfacewait a minute17:45
gnarfaceit installed no complaint?17:45
nemoyes17:45
gnarfacewhat happens when you run it?17:45
nemo"no such file or directory"17:45
nemousual 32 bit lib issue17:45
nemo$ file /usr/bin/vmware-view17:45
nemo/usr/bin/vmware-view: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.2, for GNU/Linux 2.2.5, stripped17:45
gnarfacethat's a pretty basic one17:46
gnarfacethat would be covered by literally any other proper 32-bit package17:47
nemoI'm sure17:47
nemoin fact17:47
gnarfacelibpcsclite117:47
nemoI poked around in synaptic for a trivial one to try17:47
gnarfacelibssl0.9.817:47
nemospecifically hoping it would satisfy the deps17:47
gnarfacelibxml217:47
gnarfacelibxtst617:48
gnarfacezenity17:48
gnarfacelibatk1.017:48
gnarfacelibc617:48
gnarfacelibgcc117:48
gnarfacelibgdk-pixbuf2.017:48
gnarfacelibglib2.017:49
gnarfacelibgtk2.017:49
gnarfacelibpango1.017:49
gnarface libstdc++617:49
nemoum17:49
gnarfacelibxi6 libxrandr2 zlib1g17:49
nemoone of those in your list... libssl0.9.8  - is it even possible to install that on ascii without using a .deb?17:49
gnarfacethe list i'm pulling from is old.  i assume the current libssl[whatever] will work17:50
nemolibstdc++6 is already installed as I imagine a lot of those are. I thought marking for reinstall would pick up 32 bit but seems not17:50
nemognarface: no. I just perked up 'cause this particular package requires 0.9.817:50
nemoand wanted to avoid a .deb17:50
gnarfacesince you're on a amd64 install, it won't install the 32-bit ones too unless something asks.  since this vmware-view package appears to be braindead in that regard, you have to ask yourself, explicitly.17:51
nemoalrighty will just try apt-get install libstdc++6:i386   then17:52
gnarfaceafter you do that, run "dpkg -l |grep libstdc" and you should see both libstdc++6:amd64 and libstdc++6:i386 installed17:52
gnarfaceit won't be just those17:54
gnarfacethere will be several, no doubt.17:54
gnarfacehaving Steam installed i've got dozens of them...17:54
nemoit's funny that a package that claims to be 64 bit is actually 32 bit17:54
nemomaybe it's a weird hybrid17:54
nemovmware-view: error while loading shared libraries: libglib-2.0.so.0: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory17:55
nemonow we're getting somewhere17:55
gnarfacenemo: yea, they definitely did this wrong.  it would have been nice of them to at the very least have a loosely-versioned list of dependencies near the download link.  i assume you can chase them all down by these runtime errors though....  let me know if it works18:14
nemoyep18:15
nemofun thing is frontend gui seems to spawn backend processes which are failing18:15
nemobut there's al og18:15
nemo*log18:15
nemooh hmmmm18:17
nemoI wonder if my browsing of their site was just fail before18:17
nemoafter all this work18:17
nemohttps://my.vmware.com/web/vmware/details?downloadGroup=CART19FQ2_LIN64_480&productId=578&rPId=2497218:17
nemofar more up to date18:17
nemooh well I'll probably need the i386 libs eventually. but let's see18:17
* nemo removes some stuff and tries this one18:18
nemohaha18:20
nemoyay, new installer, no more .deb - looks like they are managing it all themselves18:21
nemonow just the usual fun with ABIs18:21
nemo/usr/lib/vmware/view/bin/vmware-view: /usr/lib/vmware/mediaprovider/gcc/libstdc++.so.6: version `CXXABI_1.3.8' not found (required by /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libicui18n.so.57)18:21
nemohm18:21
nemoI've run into this one before with minecraft...18:21
nemothere's a debian package to deal with this..18:21
nemooh wait no. crap18:24
nemoI was confusing it with the ubuntu ppa fix. doh18:24
nemoppa:ubuntu-toolchain-r18:25
gnarfacewait18:26
nemoactually that's a bit odd unless I'm misreading18:26
gnarfacethat's just a version bump though, no?18:26
nemowhy is libicu18n requiring an incompatible ABI18:26
nemosurely that's a standard ascii lib18:26
gnarfacemaybe it's just too old.  check backports for a new one18:26
nemooh I see18:29
nemothey package a ton of the libs they need18:29
nemoand that tree is not complete18:30
nemoso their /usr/lib/vmware/mediaprovider/gcc/libstdc++.so.6 is reaching out into my space18:30
nemolemme see if I can swap it out 😃18:30
gnarfaceinteresting18:30
nemothat worked18:31
gnarfacei almost wonder if it can be made to behave if you just like make a wrapper script that sets LD_LIBRARY_PATH to look in their own install directory first?18:31
nemo/usr/lib/vmware/mediaprovider/gcc# mv libstdc++.so.6 libstdc++.so.6.old18:31
nemo ln -s /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libstdc++.so.6 .18:31
nemognarface: that's the problem18:31
nemotheir wrapper script does exactly that18:31
nemobut *their* libstdc++.so.6 was incomplete18:31
nemogiven their incompetence in the older .deb postinst it's no shock to me the new one has fail too18:32
gnarfaceah i see.  steam has the same problem though with libstdc++ now that i think of it, and that's the prescribed fix... to delete the bundled one18:32
systemdlete2where does devuan's cron keep its logs?  I don't see anything in /var/log.  Thanks if you know.19:19
systemdlete2btw, this is ascii and cron is 3.0pl1-128+deb9u119:21
gnarfaceshould be /var/log/daemon.log19:22
systemdlete2ok, thanks19:23
gnarfacehmm, or maybe it's /var/log/syslog19:23
systemdlete2grep cron /var/log/* --> only auth.log and pm-powersave.log19:24
systemdlete2my other systems have a crond.log or the like19:24
UsLhi, I am about to clone/backup my ascii from a hdd to a new ssd. I want to preserve all my stuff. I thought dd was the goto method but rsync with excluded dirs like /dev and /lost+found seem like a better option. I realize I need to edit fstab with new disks uuid to make it boot as system disk. What do you guys think?19:25
gnarfaceis cron actually running?19:25
gnarfacesystemdlete2: ^19:25
systemdlete2yes19:25
systemdlete2ps and service show it running19:25
systemdlete2man page for crontab says nothing about logging...19:26
gnarfaceUsL: try this: zgrep -ni 'cron' /var/log/*19:27
dethaman cron says " cron  logs its action to the syslog facility 'cron', and logging may be19:27
detha       controlled using the standard syslogd(8) facility"19:27
gnarfaceoh yea19:27
systemdlete2man cron says by default cron logs start of all jobs19:27
gnarfaceUsL: make sure you have syslog-ng or rsyslogd running too19:27
dethaNote that default loglevel is probably 0, so only failures are mailed19:27
systemdlete2rsyslogd is running19:28
gnarfacesorry UsL that was for systemdlete219:28
gnarfacesystemdlete2: did you get anything else from this? `zgrep -ni 'cron' /var/log/*`19:29
gnarfacemaybe it just hasn't logged anything yet *today*19:29
gnarfaceif your logs had just been rotated it may not show up yet19:29
gnarfaceUsL: yea, rsync or even tar would work too, but dd would preserve your partitions19:30
systemdlete2good catch gnarface.  That's prob it.  I just installed logwatch and a directory size monitoring tool this morning19:30
systemdlete2I'm gonna restart cron to see if that "kicks" it19:31
dethadefault setup it logs in /var/log/syslog19:31
gnarfacesystemdlete2: i get these repeating in my syslog periodically, but this system has been upgraded so many times, who knows if my logging thresholds match yours: CRON[20491]: (root) CMD (   cd / && run-parts --report /etc/cron.hourly)19:31
detha(but one has to enable logging, see EXTRA_OPTS in /etc/default/cron) and restart cron19:31
systemdlete2no, that is normal I think, gnarface19:31
UsLI think I'll try rsync. Should I do it with a live cd or directly. Will it make any difference?19:32
gnarfacegosh i think i did have problems with upgrades to jessie in a VM failing to make cron start right, and i had to reinstall cron to make some postinst package script wire it up right.... but i've never had any other problems with it19:32
systemdlete2detha:  THanks, but I think we have solved it for now.  Looks like I'm just a bit impatient19:32
gnarfaceUsL: it might not make a difference but it would be safer from a livecd, just to be sure nothing you're backing up changes while doing it19:33
UsLokay, yeah. And then edit fstab with new uuid and I should be good to go..19:34
gnarfaceyep19:34
gnarfacein theory19:34
UsL: )19:35
gnarfacemake sure you back up everything you need though19:35
systemdlete2on the importance of backups:  Yesterday I blew away my home directory.  Bad news.19:35
systemdlete2good news is I have backups.19:35
systemdlete2bad news is that I did not set up the backups for the new VM (ascii) -- so more bad news19:36
systemdlete2luckily, I still had backups from my jessie VM   so good news19:36
gnarfacethe debian release notes helpfully list a few directories and some command outputs they recommend you back up just in case here: https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/amd64/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html#data-backup19:36
UsLindeed.. Well, as long as rsync wont modify anything on the source disk I guess it's fine19:36
UsLah, thanks19:36
systemdlete2bad news is I had been running ascii for about 3 days already, so might have lost some important work in my home directory.19:36
gnarfaceUsL: it won't mess anything up if you get the syntax right....19:36
systemdlete2good news is that it turns out I hadn't, so19:37
gnarfaceUsL: (make sure you know which direction you're pointing it before you pull the trigger)19:37
systemdlete2anyway.  Always make sure your backups actually work!!!19:37
gnarfacethat is a good tip too19:37
UsLyeah, I'll try to not eff this up. Thanks for input19:38
UsLhere I go19:38
gnarfacethe debian release notes say to back up /etc, /var/lib/dpkg, /var/lib/apt/extended_states, and `dpkg --get-selections "*"` and loosely suggest maybe /home too, but i would add to that /opt, /usr/local, and `debconf-get-selections`19:39
gnarface(and i would heavily recommend /home not just lazily suggest "maybe")19:39
systemdleteI'm backing up those and some other stuff as I need.  And yes, always /home!19:40
gnarfacei maybe would even suggest /var/log too, if it's a server19:40
systemdleteI mean, if you use your system for anything besides playing admin (like me, on most of my systems)19:40
systemdletegood point, I have not been backing up /var/log19:41
systemdleteI wonder how much of  a space hit that would be for my backup cloud19:42
systemdleteare you talking about ALL logs or just /var/log/*.log for instance?19:42
gnarfacedepends on a lot, like how long you have logrotate keeping logs for, and how much traffic you get19:42
gnarfaceif it's just a web server mabye you only care about /var/log/apache219:42
gnarfacelogs don't typically take up much space though19:43
systemdleteI'd need to ruminate over this a bit...  I'm not doing anything quite THAT important really19:43
gnarfacea couple gigs at most unless you're doing something really werid19:43
gnarface*weird19:43
koollmanlocal logs aren't as important in general. If they matter, setup a log server somewhere else19:43
koollman(on the other hand, they usually compress really really well)19:43
systemdletegood idea koollman19:43
systemdleteI'd have to look at each of my systems individually because they run different loggers and have different things logged19:44
systemdlete(different distros)19:44
koollmanit's pretty nice to be able to read the few last messages of a server that went missing ... helps finding out what may be wrong :)19:44
koollman(same idea for performance metrics)19:45
systemdlete+1 on perf logs19:46
systemdleteI tend to think the historical (logrotated) logs won't be much help if I lose a system.  If it is a public server of some kind, yeah, knowing the history of a problem can be helpful19:47
koollmanso then you can do something like "well I had mysql errors, the i/o wait and the number of process went way up, so I should look at that first after it comes back up"19:48
systemdleteusually it is the last messages before a crash, or in the hours before a crash that matters19:48
systemdleteright.  I will keep in mind the perf data (if I have any) when I re-configure my backups19:48
systemdleteThis is bringing up other related matters for me.  Like, I have never backed up any fw/router appliances like endian or ipfire19:51
systemdleteMy thinking about those is that they can be re-installed from scratch and reconfigured in minutes which would probably be faster than rebuilding and restore.  But maybe I need to rethink that notion.19:52
koollmanyou can probably get the basic config back easily. But then ... finding out the tiny part of important config that you did 2 years ago to solve some specific problem ... much harder :)19:53
systemdleteoh how true that is!  Thank you.19:53
koollmanand it can start some cascading failure. "oh. since I restored my firewall, I did not notice my backups cannot work anymore because they are dropped" (and you notice of course, when you need to restore)19:54
systemdleteRealistially, I could set them up to backup the system area (/etc and /var mainly). I can re-use the same fileset as for the other systems...19:54
systemdleteyes, that moment when the hairs on your neck stand up, you feel flushed, and ready to have a heart attack.  That moment?19:54
koollmanI know it well enough to think with some realistic pessimism about what could go wrong on my systems ;)19:55
systemdleteI'm lucky because most of what I do with my "systems" is just for learning stuff and a few actual, real-world projects19:56
systemdleteI report bugs on occasion, so I guess that is useful19:57
gnarfaceif you're running webservers though, the historical apache logs are like a record of your money19:58
gnarfacesometimes you need that to provide to the business19:58
gnarfacesometimes just to compare it with google's data, sometimes for other research purposes19:58
systemdleteYes, there is a whole wealth of great info in THOSE logs.  About 20 years ago, I wrote a tool to cull user connection info from the logs19:59
systemdleteWe wanted to get some idea of how many people were connecting, and for how long -- these stats were only estimates, heuristics really.  There is no deterministic means to generate that data.20:00
systemdleteI still have that script... It might be fun to try it on one of my systems here...  lol20:00
koollmandepending on your country's laws, you also are required to keep access logs for a while. And also depending on the laws, you're required to not keep them for too long20:01
systemdletePATRIOT act20:02
systemdletebut that's only for publicly-facing servers, I think.  Some companies probably do it for internal security purposes.20:02
koollmanfor example, yes. or gdpr on the limiting side20:02
systemdleteI love this new GDPR law... heh.  The EU passes a sensible law (from what I can gather) and the US and everyone else is pretty much forced to follow suit.20:03
systemdletea kick in the teeth to US full spectrum command and control20:03
gnarfacemy only complaint is that it precipitated the early death of Miiverse20:04
gnarfaceit needed to happen though, better late than never20:04
systemdletea game?20:04
gnarfaceuh... Miiverse was the "social" feature of Nintendo's previous console20:04
gnarfacedue to GDPR they had to scrap it entirely, and on an earlier timeframe than they were planning on merging it with the new system20:05
systemdleteSo that kids could bully and harrass each other over the Internet while playing their favorite game20:05
gnarfacewell, in a sense, yes, but it was actually fully curated and moderated with a 3-strikes-you're-out rule20:06
gnarfaceno name calling20:06
gnarfaceno profanity20:06
gnarfaceno being rude20:06
systemdlete(I mean, in addition to its INTENDED usage)20:06
gnarfacethey served me a warning for calling one of the video game bosses a bad name20:06
systemdletekind of like IRC20:06
systemdleteLOL20:06
gnarfaceyea, kind of like IRC but the rules were a lot better enforced there than around here...20:06
systemdleteyeah, that's exactly what I was alluding to...20:07
systemdleteI've noticed that in the last 2 years or so, the behavior on IRC has improved dramatically.  Seems a lot of hotheads have either cooled down or moved on20:07
systemdleteI read that IRC's popularity has decreased a good bit recently20:08
gnarfacei think they moved on to facebook and twitter20:08
gnarfaceand discord20:08
nemosystemdlete: I think the FOSS community as a whole is aging20:08
nemoand esp the IRC one20:08
nemosystemdlete: fewer kids, fewer hormones ☺20:08
nemosystemdlete: a lot of us got into code at a time when you pretty much had to dive into guts of your computer20:08
nemojust like your car20:08
systemdletenemo, gnarface:  Nice to hear.20:08
systemdleteI know20:08
nemoaaaand just like your car both are a lot harder to dig into nowdays20:08
systemdleteI remember adb...20:08
nemocopyprotected, locked down, sealed off.20:09
systemdleteb 9720:09
systemdleter20:09
systemdletedumpstack20:09
nemoand the incentives are gone too. so not too surprising that there's a smaller influx20:09
nemo(nowdays computers don't have to be banged at to get them to do anything interesting)20:09
systemdleteI think, overall, the security has improved, esp on *nix systems, which would deter such annoyances20:10
systemdletethey seem to like to continue targeting windows because it always has a fresh supply of potential exploits.20:10
systemdlete(overall, overall... not absolutely)20:10
nemosystemdlete: I was thinking more about why freenode seems to have become calmer20:11
nemosetting aside the current spam attack20:11
systemdletethere's ALWAYS somebody, nemo.20:11
nemosystemdlete: yeah. I was kinda discounting that20:12
nemoI meant for actual real users.  was agreeing that behaviour had improved20:12
systemdleteI get you20:12
gnarfacewell i used to be one of the hotheads20:13
gnarfaceall that changed for me is they legalized weed here...20:13
gnarfaceit's a nicer breakfast than brandy at least20:14
systemdletebbl20:15
systemdletethanks for the help again20:15
gnarfaceno problem, peace20:15
DocScrutinizer05ChanServ: WB!20:30
golinuxAnd it didn't blow up!20:33
* DocScrutinizer05 thinks the fanatic (almost religious) trolls seen on IRC a maybe 10 or even 5 years ago now found they achieve way better response/results on "social media"20:34
systemdleteWell, then, let's hear it for social media!20:34
systemdletegnarface, detha:  I'm finding that my du -ks /var/log are well under a gig, and some are as small as a few meg20:35
systemdletedefinitely candidates for backup20:35
gnarfacei kinda miss the "freenode is not doing, allah is doing" guy though20:37
gnarfacebrought a smile to my day20:37
TwistedFatealoha snackbar20:37
TwistedFate:320:37
DocScrutinizer05dang! ChanServ still lags almost a minute20:46
PilgrimmHi folks! I really like Devuan so far but I'm having a bit of an issue with installing Epson printer drivers23:01
PilgrimmThe drivers aren't the problem but rather trying to install LSB is a bit of a pain for me23:02
PilgrimmSo I type sudo apt install lsb and it gives me this:23:03
PilgrimmThe following packages have unmet dependencies:23:03
Pilgrimm lsb : Depends: lsb-desktop (>= 4.1+devuan2) but it is not going to be installed23:03
PilgrimmE: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages.23:03
Pilgrimmy23:03
PilgrimmApparently this is a common issue, what the heck is going on here?23:03
Centurion_DanPilgrimm: I haven't heard that one before... what release - jessie or ascii?23:09
PilgrimmI'm using ascii23:09
golinuxWhat is your sources.list23:18
golinuxShould use deb.devuan.org23:18
golinuxPilgrimm: ^^^23:18
Pilgrimmthey're all deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged  it seems23:20
golinuxPlease use deb.devuan.org23:20
golinuxThat might fix things for you23:21
PilgrimmOkay23:21
PilgrimmDo I replace pkgmaster or just leave it there and add deb?23:21
gnarfacereplace23:22
PilgrimmI'm getting the same thing even after performing sudo apt update23:24
gnarfacedid you ever have backports or other repos in there?23:25
golinuxReplace. pkgmaster.devuan.org with deb.devuan.org23:25
PilgrimmYes, I replaced them all with deb.devuan.org23:26
golinuxOK23:26
Pilgrimmascii, ascii-updates, ascii-security, ascii-backports23:26
Pilgrimmwait, I also have /merged/ after deb.devuan.org23:27
Pilgrimmis that causing anything?23:27
gnarfacei note that lsb-desktop 4.1+devuan2 is the same version as ceres...23:27
golinuxhttps://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list23:27
Pilgrimmyeah, again I have updates, security, and backports enabled23:29
PilgrimmI DON'T have proposed or experimental enabled though23:30
unixmanI'll just point out that backports, or similar, have bitten me hard across several Linux distributions. I rarely enable it anymore.23:31
gnarfacePilgrimm: i thnk you've made a mess.  but see what it prompts you to do if you add "-i ascii-backports" to the command23:32
PilgrimmTo sudo apt install lsb you mean?23:33
gnarfacePilgrimm: yea, uh... "-t ascii-backports" actually though, i mean23:33
Pilgrimmstill nothing, same output23:34
gnarfacewhat do you see if you run `dpkg -l |grep lsb-`23:34
gnarface?23:34
Pilgrimmii  lsb-base                               4.1+devuan2                                all          Linux Standard Base 4.1 init script functionality23:35
Pilgrimmrc  lsb-core                               4.1+devuan2                                amd64        Linux Standard Base 4.1 core support package23:35
Pilgrimmii  lsb-release                            4.1+devuan2                                all          Linux Standard Base version reporting utility23:35
gnarfacecan anyone confirm if those are the right package versions for ascii?23:36
gnarfacethat looks like ceres to me23:37
gnarfaceor backports23:37
gnarfaceoh hmm.  mabye it's the same version everywhere23:37
gnarfacewhy is lsb-core removed though for you Pilgrimm?23:38
gnarface... nevermind that too.  same here23:38
gnarfacehmmm23:38
Pilgrimmdunno23:38
gnarfaceit might be broken23:38
Pilgrimmshould I install that?23:38
gnarfaceno, don't install it23:38
gnarfacei'm wondering if you're supposed to uninstall the other two first, in fact23:39
PilgrimmI'm assuming the other two are what's causing a mess?23:40
gnarfacethat's not actually quite what the error says23:40
gnarfacei'm sortof grasping at straws here23:40
gnarfacethe package could be broken23:41
gnarfacedoes anyone else here have it installed?23:41
gnarfaceanyone have lsb-desktop installed on ascii?23:41
gnarfacePilgrimm: you can try removing them first to see what happens, or you could try it with aptitude to see what types of suggestions that provides23:46
gnarfaceit's probably safer to try it with aptitude but i don't know23:47
gnarfacei'm not sure what will happen if you pull those out23:47
Pilgrimmtry installing the other lsbs you mean?23:48
gnarfacehave you used aptitude before?23:49
gnarfaceit's like apt but it tries to provide intelligent suggestions in situations like this23:49
gnarfacethat's the safer suggestion i mean23:49
gnarfacetry installing lsb-desktop with aptitude instead of apt23:50
gnarfaceit won't work23:50
gnarfaceit will still complain23:50
gnarfacebut it might do a better idea of telling you what's wrong and how to get around it23:50
gnarfaceit might tell you what you can safely remove23:50
gnarfaceor it might at least do a better job at guessing than me23:50
PilgrimmI haven't actually. I've been using either synaptic or apt itself23:52
gnarfacei usually use apt-get23:54
gnarfacei'm not even sure how different it is from apt23:54
Pilgrimmokay23:54
gnarface(i assume it's basically just passing your options through to apt-get but i don't know)23:54
Pilgrimmlsb-desktop depends on libpng12-023:54
Pilgrimmwhich is apparently unavailable23:54
gnarfaceah23:54
gnarfacecheck backports for *that*23:54
gnarfacebecause i have that here in ceres...23:55
gnarfacehmmm23:55
gnarfacei have libpng16 too though23:55
gnarfacemaybe that's an obsolete version now23:55
gnarfaceah yea23:56
gnarfacethat's actually from jessie and i just still have it installed23:56
gnarfacehmmm23:56
Pilgrimmlooks like the last distro that had libpng12 - yeah it was jessie23:56
gnarfaceso this has to be a bug that debian has too...23:56
gnarfacehmmm23:57
gnarfacei wonder if the only reason it can't use libpng16 is the package name23:57
gnarfacethat might be an easy thing to fix23:57
Pilgrimmhow do I fix that exactly23:58
gnarfacewell you'd have to repackage it23:58
gnarfacei mean it could be easy to fix in theory if you already knew how to do that23:58
gnarfaceincidentally, what do you actually need that for?23:59
Pilgrimmyeah I'm not familiar with repackaging heh23:59

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