freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2018-08-31

gnarfacei found this in a google search https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse/issues/8500:01
gnarfacethat's where i got the idea00:01
gnarfaceif you *didn't* customize anything, purging and reinstalling wouldn't hurt anything00:02
gnarfacebut i wouldn't recommend risking it if you can't remember00:03
fromportwhile in /etc# cat modprobe.d/alsa-base.conf  # Disable the HDMI card which shows up first, but enable PCH [newline] options snd-hda-intel enable=1,000:03
fromportthat was the only # find . -name \*alsa\* in /etc/ after I had purged all packages with alsa in their name ;-)00:03
fromportapt install  alsa-utils alsamixergui gstreamer1.0-alsa:amd64  xmms2-plugin-alsa  <- reinstalling00:04
gnarfaceis there also alsa-tools, alsa-oss, and alsa-base?00:05
gnarfaceit may have been sufficient to just re-run /etc/init.d/alsa-utils00:06
gnarfaceyou shouldn't have to, but i've heard of it fixing things...00:06
fromportthose other alsa's don't seem to be installed in my system00:07
fromportshould i install those ?00:07
gnarfaceif they're still in the repo for your version, yes00:07
fromportPackage alsa-base is not available, but is referred to by another package.00:08
gnarfacei think they deprecated it00:08
fromportinstalling alsa-oss alsa-tools00:08
fromportgoing to reboot, see you in a while00:08
gnarfaceok00:08
fromportback.00:19
fromportmoment of truth , first just with apulse00:19
gnarfaceif it doesn't work, try to start then stop /etc/init.d/alsa-utils00:21
fromportstill doesn't work ;-)00:21
gnarfacebut the plug:dmix thing does?00:21
fromporthttps://pastebin.com/ci8Yt3LY00:21
fromportlet me try stop/start alsa-utils first00:22
KatolaZfromport: are you in the audio group?00:22
KatolaZ(silly question, I know)00:22
gnarfaceit's not actually a daemon either, but if you run the stop&start actions of that script it'll redetect the cards00:23
fromportyep, in audio group00:23
fromportstop/start didn't help00:23
gnarfacehuh00:23
gnarfacei dunno what's wrong with it then but it could be actually a bug00:24
fromportof alsa-util00:24
gnarfaceof alsa-util, or maybe the driver itself00:24
gnarfacethe good news is it's a minor issue00:24
gnarfaceyou can map around it with that environment variable or with alsa customization00:25
KatolaZalsa-utils just saves/restores mixer settings00:25
KatolaZAFAIK00:25
gnarfacei thought it also generates /usr/share/alsa contents on boot00:25
fromportwith the env variables in front of apulse it works .00:25
fromportyes, oh men, i was always grabbing my tablet to listen to eg youtube stuff, but now it's back on my desktop! many MANY thanks00:26
gnarfaceno problem00:26
fromportwill try and figure out if I can see if there is some "hidden" setting somewhere that might have snugged in00:26
gnarfaceif you are curious about the dmix thing, they might know what's wrong in #alsa00:26
fromporti might do that ! thanks again for giving me my freedom back ;-)00:27
gnarfacenp again00:27
gnarfaceyou can use that "plug:dmix" value in other programs as an alsa device, too, btw00:28
gnarfacethey will all work at once00:28
gnarfacewhich is supposed to be the default but, sometimes things go wrong...00:29
ServiceRobotso I have some news to report. I got a test system booting fully with runit and without sysvinit by using /etc/runit scripts provided by: https://github.com/cloux/aws-devuan05:59
ServiceRobotthe next step is sharing my findings as to get a more permanent solution in devuan06:00
OwnerServiceRobot: is it better than sysvinit ?06:06
ServiceRobotit's a lot simpler, that's for sure06:06
ServiceRobotall I had to so was plop in those scripts to /etc/runit and I no longer need sysv-rc06:06
ServiceRobotthough it's obviously a hacky, non official solution06:07
ServiceRobotthere are currently 2 other implementations: void's, and artix's. this implementation I just discovered keeps devuan in mind06:07
ServiceRobotthing is debian doesn't support a way to use runit without sysvinit/sysv-rc, even though it wouldn't take too, too much to change06:08
fromportis it faster than sysvinit ?06:38
ServiceRobotfaster? hard to gauge unless I add more services. I'd say yes06:42
ServiceRobotwhere can I do to request some changes to how init systems are handled currently? mainly runit and openrc?06:43
ServiceRobot*go06:43
ServiceRobotI'd say the changes I have in mind are pretty significant, so the forum might not be enough06:43
fromportcontact the maintainers of the corresponding devuan packages directly ?06:50
ServiceRobothow do I know who is maintaining what package?06:50
fromporti have no idea :-)06:54
fromportapt-cache show sysvinit06:56
fromportfor example06:56
fromportMaintainer: Daniel Reurich <daniel@centurion.net.nz>06:56
ServiceRobotah. guess I'll give that a try06:56
ServiceRobotthing is runit and sysvinit are a bit tied, so not sure which maintainer I should contact. I guess both06:57
fromporti would do that ;-)06:57
fromportopenrc is still under debian management.   that would be hard to convince them to change anything06:59
ServiceRobotopenrc is actually developed by gentoo if I'm not mistaken. they use it by default06:59
fromportMaintainer: OpenRC Debian Maintainers <openrc@packages.debian.org>07:00
fromportfor the openrc package in devuan07:00
ServiceRobotwell devuan developers can make changes if they benefit everyone I assume?07:00
ServiceRobotespecially something this important07:00
fromporti think so, you could become the openrc maintainer for devuan ;-)07:01
ServiceRobotI prefer runit but don't want to diss openrc. I'm gonna send an email for both. openrc without sysvinit would take minimal effort. it just needs a getty service07:01
fromportgreat! I am Going zzz ;-) l8r07:02
ServiceRobotsee ya07:02
ServiceRobotwait, if the developer still shows it for debian, then it's not accurate07:03
mintedlooking for 'best' 32bit arch. as i see there are 'spinoffs' what say you folks? what should i put on a 'veteran' box that still wants to teach???07:14
Ownerbest 32bit arch?07:15
Ownerspinoffs?07:15
mintedOwner: architecture >>> re:spinoffs = derivatives excuse me07:17
Ownerdistros?07:17
mintedOwner: looking to put devuan on a 32bit laptop07:18
Ownerah07:19
Ownerminted: https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/07:19
mintedOwner: ah07:21
mintedOwner: ty07:21
golinuxminted: Or https://devuan.org/os/partners/devuan-distros07:23
mintedgolinux: yup im on the site ty...07:25
mintedwas seeing if people were running derivatives and what they liked...07:26
TurBo_biThello, just a question, to install Ceres its like in debian?, must install the stable and change the repositories?09:11
KatolaZTurBo_biT: yes, but it's better to pass through testing before, I guess10:08
TurBo_biTKatolaZ, thank you, i will try to do it..., but it could be better to have a ceres iso to do in one step i think10:22
KatolaZyeah it would be better10:22
KatolaZbut it's not possible atm10:22
TurBo_biT:)10:22
KatolaZ:)10:22
TurBo_biTi will try, we will see the result XDDD10:23
KatolaZnot even debian provides isos for unstable, right>10:23
KatolaZyou can choose it from the netinst, AFAIK10:23
TurBo_biTdevuan have also netinst?10:23
KatolaZsure it does10:24
KatolaZhttps://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/10:24
TurBo_biTthank you so much10:24
KatolaZbut you are warned: it won't probably not succeed installing ceres10:24
KatolaZthere are a few issues with new deps to be fixed10:25
KatolaZI haven't tried lately, TBH10:25
TurBo_biTi want to program for linux, so, allways the programmers told me that its better to install the latest10:26
KatolaZTurBo_biT: forget about that10:26
KatolaZif you want to program, just do it10:26
KatolaZwherever10:26
TurBo_biTso, better ceres?10:26
KatolaZusing unstable won't make you a better programmer10:26
KatolaZnope10:27
KatolaZbetter stable10:27
KatolaZso that you can focus on the actual programming10:27
TurBo_biTso, why tell me that is better to have the latest?10:27
TurBo_biTfor me its the same to install one or other, but may be any reasson i think10:29
TurBo_biTany developer here?10:29
KatolaZTurBo_biT: what you want to "program" exactly?10:31
TurBo_biTi'm jumping from game development to linux, so i would like to program for the graphic stack10:31
KatolaZany specific idea?10:32
TurBo_biTdrivers, wayland..., i new, so i don't have still very clear10:32
TurBo_biTi'm10:32
KatolaZif you are up for kernel development, you need something that is not too old10:32
KatolaZbut in that case the distribution won't really make a masisve difference, maybe10:33
KatolaZsince most of the stuff you'll need to build from scratch anyway10:33
TurBo_biTok10:33
TurBo_biTso, stable better, no?10:33
KatolaZI'd probably start with stable10:33
TurBo_biTok10:34
KatolaZsee how far you can go10:34
KatolaZand then decide10:34
KatolaZyou can always upgrade to testing later on10:34
KatolaZif you need so10:34
TurBo_biTtrue10:34
TurBo_biTthank you KatolaZ10:34
KatolaZnp10:34
mintedanyone around?11:41
booyahminted: no11:44
engideaThanks !!! (yes, I am going to contribute :)11:48
mintedengidea: that to me?11:52
mintedping any of the distro builders17:29
KatolaZminted: ?17:29
mintedKatolaZ: hey there you one of the builders?17:30
KatolaZminted: ask your question17:30
mintedKatolaZ: friendly request to date the page <https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list> so we know when last updated please...17:33
KatolaZit was updated when Devuan 2.0.0 ASCII stable was released17:34
KatolaZso around 2018060917:34
mintedKatolaZ: ty...17:35
KatolaZyw17:35
KatolaZminted: yours is a good comment17:35
KatolaZwe should probably date those pages anyway17:35
KatolaZa point to remember for the future :)17:35
KatolaZgolinux: ^^^^17:36
golinuxGot it.17:36
golinuxNow all I have to do is remember!!17:36
KatolaZI will try to remember to remind you then :)17:36
mintedKatolaZ: i am humble in your comment...my 1st running of the distro...she looks pretty17:37
golinuxThat will be important especially if we do a point release.17:37
* golinux smiles17:37
mintednow if i will just stop dropping the hyphen when transcribing to sources.list and scratching my 'monkey-shake-of-head' as to wot the hell is wrong ;-))17:39
Pr0metheusis anyone on ceres? how to install policykit-1, consolekit is not installable21:23
gnarfaceis it complaining about consolekit right now when you try to install it?21:26
gnarfacei'm on ceres right now but i've been avoiding both those packages21:27
gnarfacebut you should know that broken dependencies in ceres are common and expected21:27
gnarfaceusually if it says something about the package referring to a non-existent package all you can really do is wait for someone else to fix it, or fix it yourself21:29
Pr0metheusI wish I knew how to fix it:P21:29
gnarfaceit usually means they're transitioning to a new version that requires changes to everything that uses it21:30
Pr0metheusany other suggestion instead of synaptic?21:30
gnarfacewell aptitude will try to suggest solutions21:31
gnarfacein the case of version conflicts or the like21:31
gnarfaceit might be worth trying21:31
Pr0metheussorry I mean is there another a program I can generally use instead of synaptic21:31
gnarfaceyes, that's exactly what aptitude is21:32
gnarfaceyou can also use apt-get but it's a simple creature and will not try to help you out of a pickle21:32
Pr0metheusbut command line21:32
gnarfaceoh.  yea as far as i know synaptic is the *only* graphical one21:32
Pr0metheusok I see21:33
gnarfacedon't get suckered in by 3rd party crap like cpanel or the like.  those things will make a bigger mess of your system than you can imagine.21:33
gnarfaceall the console ones will give you more detail about the problem than synaptic though21:34
Pr0metheusone other thing I 've been thinking, ok we moved out of systemd and all these stuff, but looking at the linux foundation board I am beginning to wonder21:34
gnarfaceeven if you can't come up with a solution it might still give you a better picture of what is wrong21:34
gnarfacelinux foundation, freedesktop.org... don't trust any of them.  they're all RedHat sympathizers21:35
gnarfacethey all have a corporate agenda and they're just trying to pretend it's not evil21:35
Pr0metheuswell the board is a mix of all big companies21:35
gnarfaceyea, i know21:35
gnarfacedon't ever trust anyone who has more than 40 billion dollars and thinks they need more.21:35
Pr0metheusso my conclusion is that systemd is just a cherry on the big pie21:36
gnarfaceyea, that's a reasonable assessment of it, IMO21:36
gnarfacethis is starting to become more #debianfork talk than a support issue though21:36
gnarfaceas far as your actual technical problem, if aptitude can't give you a satisfactory solution i'm standing by my advice to just wait a few days to see if it resolves itself21:36
gnarfaceyou didn't mix 3rd party repos in there did you?21:37
Pr0metheusuh no21:37
gnarfaceyou can also get this type of package conflict from version issues associated with using ubuntu PPA's or deb-multimedia or the like21:38
Pr0metheusI have only ceres for main and contrib, but the system came out of stretch upgrade21:38
gnarfacewith ceres it's just a normal part of the development process21:38
Pr0metheusok21:38
gnarfacethe idea is that it breaks in ceres first so that they can fix it before it gets pushed into stable21:38
gnarface(ubuntu doesn't bother waiting for this)21:39
fsmithredPr0metheus, you might try policykit-1 from ascii. The one in beowulf and ceres hasn't been devuanized yet.21:49
Pr0metheusok thanks fsmithred will do21:49
fsmithredmaybe consolekit from ascii, too. There's no consolekit in ceres21:49
fsmithredyou might try elogind from ascii instead of consolekit21:50
fsmithredor better yet, just use a window manager until all that policy garbage is worked out for ceres21:50
Pr0metheusdoes anyone have the link for downloading specific packages cause https://pkginfo.devuan.org only shows the package info21:52
fsmithredpkgmaster.devuan.org21:53
fsmithredor just 'apt-get download <package>'21:53
fsmithredapt-get -t ascii download...21:53
fsmithredascii has to be in sources.list21:53
Pr0metheusah ok just put on browser the https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged21:54
fsmithredif you know which version you want21:54
Pr0metheusbad idea:P21:55
fsmithredif you add ascii to sources, you can just install it from there21:55
fsmithredwith '-t ascii'21:55
Pr0metheusascii takes consolekit from debian so i downloaded from debian consolekit and one lib and installed22:07
Pr0metheusnow synaptic also installed22:07
fsmithredPr0metheus, why do you want to run ceres?22:10
Pr0metheusI need some software from unstable22:12
fsmithredmight be better to backport it22:12
Pr0metheusbackport from unstable to stable?22:13
fsmithredyeah, sometimes it's easy, sometimes not22:13
fsmithredif you don't need things like logging out from desktop menu, automounting of usb, then you should be fine without policykit22:13
Pr0metheusI don't think it is easy for qgis22:13
fsmithredand you'll have a much easier time with ceres22:14
Pr0metheusyes I understand but I need to stay uptodate with some software and this requires that I stay on unstable22:15
Pr0metheusup to now it has worked22:15
fsmithredin debian or devuan?22:15
Pr0metheusin debian:P but I think things are working too in devuan22:16
fsmithredmost of it should22:16
Pr0metheusone or two more things to fix and ready22:16
fsmithredI'm interested to know how it works. What desktop are you using?22:17
Pr0metheusxfce422:17
Pr0metheusremoved pulse audio22:17
fsmithredyou're running the way I usually do22:18
Pr0metheusto be honest it boots up faster and shuts down faster without gnome and systemd22:19
Pr0metheusthings are pretty stable22:19
Pr0metheusreplaced also evolution with thunderbird, polari with hexchat, used the pale moon browser22:20
fsmithredgnome is too slow. I couldn't use it for more than a few minutes.22:20
Pr0metheustoo much javascript -> epic fail22:20

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