freenode/#devuan/ Wednesday, 2018-09-26

underd0ghey guys00:05
underd0ganyone upgraded 1->2 ?00:05
fsmithredlots of upgrades from jessie to ascii have been done00:07
underd0git's seamless ?00:09
underd0gapt-get distupgrade , and off we go ?00:09
fsmithredyeah, pretty much00:10
fsmithreduse not auto.mirror00:11
Psud0nymIs Beowulf usable?00:15
Psud0nymI've heard of the mixed installs pulling the desktop in from beowulf.00:16
fsmithreddesktop from beowulf is not ready00:16
fsmithredplain window manager or just console should mostly work00:17
fsmithredyou might need to pin some packages if you're using a desktop, and maybe even if you're not00:19
Psud0nymthat's a shame. I was ready to drop it on a spare PC and see how well it shook down.00:19
fsmithredI did upgrade a no-dbus install to beowulf, and it went pretty well00:19
fsmithredopenbox with lxpanel00:20
fsmithredno display manager00:20
fsmithredhere's an account of an upgrade to beowulf:
underd0gfsmithred: I have ascii/ceres installed in a vm from ur live install00:23
underd0gis it egliable to be dd'ed to a hdd ?00:23
* man_in_shack stares at underd0g00:25
man_in_shackbiggest issue there is what format is your vm image?00:25
underd0gthat's no issue00:26
underd0gI can comfortly dd any image00:26
underd0gI convert it into raw00:27
underd0gthat's how I usually do installs00:27
underd0gso that I have the original state of the install safe on my main machine00:27
Psud0nymunderd0g: vm converted to raw then dd'ed to a bare metal drive? then add an entry to your bootloader?00:36
fsmithredsounds like it would work.00:37
fsmithredunderd0g, I thought you just wanted to go from jessie to ascii - that's safer00:38
fsmithredan old ascii/ceres mix could be messy00:38
Psud0nymfsmithred: pretty much what the live installer does, right?00:38
fsmithredlive installer does rsync copy of the running live system00:38
fsmithredwith appropriate excludes00:39
Psud0nymI hadn't considered that approach.00:39
underd0gfsmithred: I just happen to have a spare drive00:39
Psud0nymof course I've been doing debian netinstall since etch was current.00:39
underd0gyou know I do funny stuff to my disks00:39
fsmithredok, then go wild00:39
underd0gPsud0nym: when dd'ed , no need to add anything to bootloader00:40
fsmithredI have a love/hate relationship with d-i00:40
fsmithredtime to make dinner - afk00:41
Psud0nyma little trial and error with partition manager on d-i, and that's pretty much the extent of the difficulty for me. set a partition from the drive as my home directory, and once all the software is installed it works as usuall.00:42
Psud0nymsaptech: everything working well, now?00:43
saptechyes, it's up and running00:44
Psud0nymare you on ascii now?00:44
saptechI ran into one snag during boot up00:44
saptechyes ascii00:44
saptechwhich display manager is it using by default?00:44
saptechrunning xfce300:45
Psud0nymlightdm, I believe.00:45
saptechwell, after booting, I pressed F1 for session and it locked the system. only way out was to reboot00:46
Psud0nymthe release notes said that there are 2 display managers that work for xfce.00:46
saptechif I don't press F1 and just type username/password it's okay00:46
saptechright now everything is whatever is installed by default00:46
Psud0nymare you looking to change to another display manager?00:47
saptechyes, I prefer lxdm, is it available?00:47
Psud0nymI will look. packages.devuan.org00:48
saptechheh, I meant xfce200:49
saptechold eyes00:49
Psud0nymman_in_shack: he means 4...00:50
man_in_shackold xfce too (:00:50
saptechwell, yes 4 not 2 or 3...lol00:50
man_in_shackor 500:50
saptechxfce is old?00:50
man_in_shackxfce3 is old00:50
Psud0nymyes. xfce has had some staying power.00:51
Psud0nymcurrently released as 4.12.x00:51
saptechit's okay. I haven't used it in a while00:51
man_in_shacki switched to xfce ... would have been about 12 years ago i think :|00:51
man_in_shackwhen did 4.0 come out?00:52
Psud0nymI really liked kde3, but my first desktop what kde2 build by hand on redhat 3.200:52
man_in_shackwow, 200300:52
saptechI had to build kde1 or 2 around 200000:53
Psud0nymback then I just couldn't figure out how to use the installer for debian, and knew nothing about testing.00:53
saptechI was running Caldera linux00:53
Psud0nymsame here. after giving up on rpm dependency hell.00:54
man_in_shackso yeah, i officially switched to xfce probably 12-13 years ago00:54
underd0gI was on gnome for years00:54
man_in_shacki know i trialed v3.8, and switched completely when v4.2 was current00:54
man_in_shackbefore that, i'd been using gnome00:55
man_in_shackwhen gnome2 hit, i was pissed :P00:55
underd0gbut gnome became such a hell00:55
underd0gI could never go back to it00:55
Psud0nymI remember gnome before they lost their minds. and Caldera lost theirs before that.00:56
man_in_shackoh wait00:56
Psud0nymMandrake/pclinux os was were I went to from there.00:57
man_in_shackwould have been gnome2.10 or 2.12 i got pissed with00:57
man_in_shackbut i do know i was a late adopter to gnome2. gnome1 did the job00:57
man_in_shackthen gnome2 started getting clunky and slow00:57
man_in_shackwhich was why i never liked kde00:58
man_in_shackalso fuck arts sound server00:58
Psud0nymwell, I didn't really know what I was doing when I used KDE. I looked pretty and I used to spend hours tweaking how it looked.00:59
Psud0nymit looked pretty*01:00
Psud0nymlately I've been pretty impressed with the minimalist approach (like
saptechI ended up going with Slackware & Debian and using Gnome 201:02
saptechI have a hard time finding my way around kde/plasma01:03
saptechplus it installs too much stuff I don't want/need01:03
Psud0nymI started using ubuntu around 2005, and switched to Etch about 2007.01:03
Psud0nymyeah. the basics for the later releases and then cherry pick my tools from there. Mostly I will use cinnamon or lxqt these days.01:04
saptechsomewhere along the timeline, I wanted to try Mandrake and dual boot it with Win98. Well not knowing what I was doing, mandrake wiped the hdd and it was the only OS left standing. that is when I went with Linux only01:04
saptechand back to kde, which wasn't bad with mandrake01:05
hollasaptech: lucky you - usally it's the other way round ;)01:05
Psud0nymagreed. pclinuxos used that too. Texstar was a Mandrake developer.01:05
man_in_shackmandrake was the first distro i tried back in 200201:06
man_in_shackthen debian in 200301:06
saptechI decided to stick with mandrake, mandriva and now run mageia as my main distro01:07
man_in_shackdebian was so much easier to configure, and to install lib-dev packages for compiling stuff01:07
saptechyes, debian actually was easy to use then some of the so called easy distros01:07
man_in_shackand there was no dependency calculation in rpm at the time01:07
Psud0nymmandrake arose as a redhat spin with KDE. there was some license issue (01:07
man_in_shackdebian's sysvinit made so much more sense than rh/mandrake sysvinit01:08
* gnarface ponders what to do when this ancient e17 build stops working01:08
man_in_shackgnarface: build a new one that starts working again?01:08
gnarfacesure, in theory...01:09
gnarfacein practice that's not always so easy01:09
Psud0nymgnarface: ...could package a new build01:09
gnarfacei should try it but i suspect there's a reason why nobody else has already, and that if it's beyond their reach then it definitely is beyond mine too01:10
man_in_shackyah, enlightenment is a nice wm but the code is a massive clusterfuck01:10
Psud0nymI can take acrack at i. what sources are you using?01:10
gnarfacePsud0nym: i was using the source package from ceres, but i think it's recently been redirected to an empty e22 directory01:12
gnarfaceso you might have to dig it up from debian snapshots or something01:12
gnarfaceyou should probably grab all the efl libs from the same snapshot, too01:13
Psud0nymon debian?01:13
gnarfaceyea from debian sid i guess01:14
Psud0nymI'll see what I can do.01:14
gnarfacedon't lose sleep over it01:14
Psud0nymyeah. that's not happening.01:15
* man_in_shack sleeps on openrc01:15
Psud0nymany particular year for the snapshot you prefer?01:15
Psud0nymI'm looknig at snapshot.debian.org01:16
Psud0nymit goes back to 2005.01:16
gnarfacenah no particular year.  just try to find the most recent version of the code that was pushed into sid01:16
gnarfaceor rather, the most recent version that was successfully built into binaries that were pushed into sid, i should say01:17
gnarfacei'm showing 0.17.6-1.1+b1 here01:17
gnarfacesomething in the 0.17.6 should be fine01:17
saptechPsud0nym, slim is the default with xfce. Is it okay to switch to lxdm? I can't find anything01:18
Psud0nymok... I'm going to try building them without changes on ceres, but I could try updating from a git repo or the like01:18
Psud0nymsaptech: sorry, I got sidetracked.01:18
man_in_shacki use lightdm with xfce01:19
man_in_shackbasically, the login/desktop manager shouldn't affect your window manager/desktop environment01:19
Psud0nymsaptech: any of them is supposed to be agnostic and just call your .xinitrc01:19
man_in_shackthis ain't gnome :D01:19
man_in_shacklightdm's power menu (shutdown/reboot/hibernate) doesn't work with elogind. seems to require consolekit instead01:20
man_in_shackapart from that, components should all be interchangeable01:20
* man_in_shack has never used lxdm, and didn't like slim01:20
Psud0nymthat's it. console kit isn't playing nice, I think.01:20
Psud0nymI think that's what the release notes said.01:21
saptechI don't think slim have a switch user feature. that is why I like lxdm01:21
Psud0nymman_in_shack: thx for the backup. I'm kind of recalling from when I was half awake reading the notes.01:22
man_in_shackslim doesn't have autologin either01:23
golinux<Psud0nym> saptech: any of them is supposed to be agnostic and just call your .xinitrc01:23
golinuxRemember that in ascii , different dm's require differen't backends.  Some conflict01:24
golinuxRead the release notes01:24
Psud0nymgolinux: I read the notes, but didn't recall the exact details. It's not even all that long a read.01:25
Psud0nymcurse my brain!01:25
man_in_shackrelease notes suggest elogind for lightdm though01:26
man_in_shacksooooo ...01:26
man_in_shacki'm gonna write my own /sbin/init, with blackjack, and hookers01:27
Psud0nymman_in_shack: maybe a 12 step theme?01:28
man_in_shackis that an alcoholics anonymous reference?01:30
Psud0nymgnarface: take a look at the versions listed at snapshot.
gnarfacePsud0nym: looks like it's this one for sure:
gnarface2 years old sounds about right01:34
gnarfaceyea and then it has become populated with e21-22 after that... sneaky01:35
gnarfacebut it doesn't even work so01:35
gnarfaceor anyway the package doesn't work01:35
Psud0nymok. I'll pull sources and relevent stuff for this and see what we can do01:37
gnarfacecool, thanks!01:37
gnarfaceuh... i just had deja-vu.  we may have been through this before once already01:38
fsmithred  Psud0nym do you have both consolekit and elogind installed?01:40
Psud0nymIt's saptech with the issue, unless your asking for another reason01:42
fsmithredno, I just got back from the kitchen01:43
fsmithredso I might not know what's going on01:43
fsmithredoh, I just read the important part01:43
Psud0nymgnarface: looks good so far. installing build-dep from ascii seems to be going well.01:43
fsmithredand he's gone01:44
Psud0nymfsmithred: maybe he's trying to switch display manager01:44
fsmithredFTR, lxdm works with xfce with elogind and libpam-elogind01:45
Psud0nymfsmithred: good to know.01:45
fsmithredlatest Refracta isos use that. I chose it because the language switcher works01:46
Psud0nymgnarface: ok have the package building.01:47
Psud0nymman_in_shack: yeah, it was. but still a joke.01:50
man_in_shackyah well, alcoholics anonymous is all about giving yourself up to a higher power01:51
man_in_shackso it's basically the systemd of rehab01:51
djphlike systemd01:51
Psud0nymgnarface: are you wanting a later build that what's already in ascii?01:53
Psud0nymcause the one in the repo just built like a champ.01:54
gnarfacePsud0nym: is it the same version as in sid?01:55
gnarfacehmm, maybe they fixed it, i can try it again...01:56
gnarfacethanks for checking that for me01:56
fsmithred0.22.4-1 in sid01:56
Psud0nymI can try that one too.01:56
Psud0nym lookcorrect?01:57
Psud0nymthat's a yes01:57
fsmithredyeah, looks right01:59
fsmithredthat version is in beowulf, too01:59
gnarfacebut that's e2201:59
gnarfaceit shouldn't even be in the e17 package01:59
fsmithredwell, it comes up with 'apt-cache policy e17'02:00
gnarfacepackage maintainers trying to scuttle e1702:00
gnarfacedidn't even install when i tried it02:00
gnarfaceerror about referring to nonexistent packages02:00
fsmithredyou tried to install e22 or e17?02:01
fsmithredlooks like that would work in beowulf02:03
fsmithredmeaning... it would install here except I'm not allowing dbus02:03
fsmithredoh... beowulf that still has ascii repos enabled. gnarface you're on ceres?02:04
gnarfaceyea, i'm on ceres.  so mabye it failed because of the ceres efl versions...02:05
Psud0nymoh. there's a build-dep for systemd02:05
Psud0nymI'll see if uscan can apply the patches and update the code for you.02:05
fsmithredyou might find the missing packages in ascii02:05
benharrio/ #devuan02:18
* man_in_shack glares at benharri02:29
* benharri wonders whether man_in_shack is actually in a shack02:30
* man_in_shack wonders if benharri is actually ben or harry02:34
benharrithat's fair02:35
man_in_shackmore than one harry?02:35
benharriit was my university-assigned username and it stuck i guess02:35
benharriit's never taken cause no one wants a shitty name like that02:36
man_in_shackwell now i'm going to have to register it on every other irc network just to spite you (:02:36
benharrilol ok02:37
Psud0nymgnarface: still around?02:54
golinux(gnarface is always around)02:56
Psud0nymgnafface: looks like there is now a new library that needs to built prior to building the enlightenment. take a look at for current build instructions.02:56
Psud0nymgolinux: thx02:56
golinuxgnafface won't call him though.  ;)02:57
Psud0nymah. thx again02:58
Psud0nymgnarface: looks like there is now a new library that needs to built prior to building the enlightenment. take a look at for current build instructions.02:58
Psud0nymI've been trying to help him build the latest packages for e17 (e22 or whatever)02:59
golinuxYes, I read that.02:59
Psud0nymgolinux: looking at creating a new package for the efl library to be built from git.03:05
Psud0nymdon't recall the one-liner to debianize it.03:06
* man_in_shack $ debianize /path/to/efl/library03:10
golinuxPsud0nym: I posted the link for building devuan packages03:12
Psud0nymgolinux: thx I looked at that earlier today.03:12
Psud0nymbrain seize or something.03:12
* man_in_shack seizes Psud0nym's brain03:14
golinuxPsud0nym: Yeah, I'm never going to be packaging for devuan03:17
gnarfacePsud0nym: thanks for the heads-up05:21
conjunctivitisfsmithred: are you around?11:53
fsmithredconjunctivitis, yes11:57
fsmithredwhat's up?11:58
conjunctivitisfsmithred: hi i was talking to n4dir in #debian and he suggested i ask for your advice11:58
conjunctivitisi am trying to install an audio-focussed distro on a computer i have had and used for a long time11:59
conjunctivitisthe distro uses systemback for installation11:59
conjunctivitisfrom a live usb key11:59
conjunctivitisi can boot and run the usb key fine, but after installation i don't even get a grub menu11:59
conjunctivitisafter post it just gives me a blank screen11:59
fsmithredI'm not familiar with systemback11:59
conjunctivitisi have been successfully using older versions of this distro (always with systemback installation) for years12:00
fsmithredsounds like it failed to install a bootloader12:00
conjunctivitisfsmithred: i have attempted to manually reinstall grub from the live distro several times using ubuntu tutorials12:00
conjunctivitisalthough the distro is debian based i presume grub installation should be largely identical12:00
fsmithreddid you chroot into the installed system?12:00
fsmithreddid you run grub-install and get any errors?12:01
conjunctivitisfsmithred: no errors12:04
fsmithredyou put grub in the mbr? (e.g. /dev/sda not /dev/sda1)12:05
conjunctivitiswhoah weird12:07
conjunctivitisi just tried using f12 to get to the boot options menu12:07
conjunctivitisupon manually selecting the internal hdd it seems to be working12:07
conjunctivitisso i presume this could be a bios issue?12:07
fsmithredyeah, maybe just need to change the boot order12:08
conjunctivitisfsmithred: weird, ok i'll give that a try.  thanks12:08
fsmithredyw. I don't think I did anything.12:09
conjunctivitisfsmithred: so the internall hdd is still listed as 1st in the boot order12:11
conjunctivitisbut the only way i can get it to boot is by pressing f12 and manually selecting it12:11
conjunctivitisthis system is a laptop with two hdds12:12
conjunctivitis(technically an ssd and an hdd now)12:12
conjunctivitiscould it be picking the wrong hdd to boot from?12:12
Vajbhey. I was here the other day asking about powermanager. Installing xfce4-powermanager fixed my problem. There is just one minor flaw in it. If I have laptop lid closed while it is plugged in and if I remove the plug the laptop wont recognize this. Why this matters is, I set it to suspend when not plugged in and lock the screen when plugged in. Is this something that could be fixed?12:17
fsmithredyeah, which one did you install to? You could probably install grub to both12:17
conjunctivitisfsmithred: i installed to the drive that contains my os12:17
fsmithredwhich one is that?12:17
conjunctivitisfsmithred: can i install grub to the other drive as well and point it to the os?  i believe there's only one.12:18
conjunctivitisos is on /dev/sda112:18
conjunctivitisswap is /dev/sda312:18
conjunctivitishome is /dev/sdb112:18
conjunctivitisgrub should be on /dev/sda12:18
fsmithredchroot into the installed system and install grub to sda and sdb12:18
fsmithredthey'll both point to the right system12:19
conjunctivitiscan i do that from the running system?  it is currently running, can i just install grub to /dev/sdb now?12:19
conjunctivitisfsmithred: what about update-grub do i need to run that as well?  and if so, how do i tell it i want to update-grub on /dev/sdb?12:21
fsmithredupdate-grub re-writes grub.cfg, which is on /dev/sda112:22
fsmithredyou can run it again, but probably don't need to12:22
conjunctivitisok cool let's see if this worked.12:22
fsmithredwhen you install the grub package and it asks you where to put the bootloader, it suggests putting it in more than one drive, just in case...12:23
conjunctivitisok i reset bios to defaults and between that and installing grub to both hdds it seems to be working fine now12:28
conjunctivitisthanks again12:29
fsmithredso you don't know which fixed it?12:29
conjunctivitisresetting the bios fixed it12:30
conjunctivitisbut i first installed grub to sdb12:30
conjunctivitisso i don't know if that step was necessary or not12:30
fsmithreddid you try booting after installing grub to sdb but before changing the bios?12:31
conjunctivitisyes, but it didn't work12:33
conjunctivitishung up with no grub just like before12:33
fsmithredok, I guess something was set wrong in the bios12:35
ebrascaIs it easy to port devuan to Talos II?14:01
fsmithredCenturion_Dan might be working on that14:02
ebrascaCenturion_Dan: Hi , are you working on porting devuan to Talos II?14:04
fsmithredhe might be asleep now14:04
ebrascaIt is 14:0514:05
fsmithrednot in NZ14:05
KatolaZebrasca: in your TZ...14:05
KatolaZthis is the Internet14:05
fsmithredEastern Standard Tribe here14:06
* ebrasca continue porting parabola to Talos II14:11
furrymcgeeany clue where to look for svn://
Psud0nymGood morning14:18
djphfurrymcgee: perhaps?14:27
James1138I think I accidentally turned off error reporting to Devuan. How do I turn it back on?16:14
fsmithredJames1138, what error reporting are you talking about?16:19
James1138Sorry. When I used Ubuntu, to help developers of future versions - apport would send data about errors and stuff. I realized apport did not install in Devuan or I accidently removed apport.16:25
fsmithredno package by that name in devuan16:26
fsmithred(or debian, for that matter)16:26
James1138Ok. I guess I was paranoid I messed something up.16:27
James1138General question about Devuan. I saw that it came with WICD instead of Network Manager - but I was under the impression that WICD is difficult to work with VPN. Is that true??17:51
fsmithredJames1138, wicd does not support vpn, but you can install network-manager or connman instead17:59
James1138I did install Network-manager. I thought about staying with WICD since it has fewer dependancies.18:02
skyroveRRHeya guys, it seems there isn't /proc/mdstat file in the /proc directory, where does it come from? I'm using devuan 1.0.19:56
nemoskyroveRR: raid?19:59
nemoskyroveRR: do you have the md module loaded?19:59
nemosudo modprobe md ?19:59
skyroveRRNo, didn't have that. Loaded it now and it appeared :)20:00
skyroveRRI'm actually using the devuan kernel for my custom distro, so should I be worried about the kernel being unable to load certain modules?20:00
nemowhat do you mean the kernel is unable to load certain modules?20:01
nemoyou just loaded it?20:01
nemook. so what's the problem ☺20:02
skyroveRRI had to load md manually, does devuan 1.0 make you do this for RAID or does it load the said module automatically?20:02
nemoskyroveRR: uh. did you add it to /etc/modules ?20:03
nemomost of us don't need raid ☺20:03
skyroveRRI will, but this kinda seems strange to be loading certain modules manually.20:04
nemohow is /etc/modules manual20:04
nemoit's a config file20:04
skyroveRRUh, I don't have that file, I didn't bother stealing it from the distro ;)20:04
nemowell there you go then 😝20:04
nemo*my* devuan has it 😝20:05
skyroveRRI'll steal it then ;)20:05
James1138Question. I installed FSLint Janitor on Devuan 2.0 but cannot run it in administrative/super-user without going to terminal window. I tried changing the menu item to "gksudo fslint-gui" but that does nothing. Does anyone have any suggestions? If I run it from menu - I cannot delete anything such as temp files.21:41
gnarfaceJames1138: did you make sure gksudo is installed?21:42
gnarfacehmm, interesting, since it doesn't appear to be in the devuan 2.0 repo....21:43
gnarfacemaybe check again on that21:43
gnarfaceyou might be able to use gksu instead though21:44
James1138gksu... okay21:46
fsmithredgksudo comes with the gksu package21:47
gnarfaceoh, i guess i don't have either here anyway21:48
gnarfaceJames1138: run `gksudo fslint-gui` from a terminal and see what errors it prints21:49
gnarfacehmm, it seems to have been removed from ceres... is that going to go away?21:50
golinuxYes. It's being deprecated.  Will will probably fork it iirc21:50
fsmithredyes, no more gksu21:50
James1138MAJOR thnaks!!! The gksu did the trick21:50
fsmithredit's been replaced with pkexec, which is buggy21:51
saptechhello all21:58
jaromilahoy. I think we fixed the mailinglist archives. old mails reappeared too, but with different urls. non-deleted mails are still there.21:59
* golinux goes to check the archives21:59
saptechfsmithred, I finally got devuan installed with the desktop iso21:59
saptechOne issue I noticed  after booting, at the DM login screen, pressing F1 for sessions, it froze the system22:01
saptechthis is xfce4 with slim DM22:01
golinuxjaromil: Yes!  November 2014 has reappeared!!!!22:02
golinuxMost excellent news!!22:02
P-GHey, has anyone here tried hpn-ssh?22:03
jaromilgolinux: happy to have good news for the meeting :^) did it with parazyd today22:04
fsmithredsaptech, that's not a known problem22:06
saptechIf I boot to the login screen and just sign in it wasn't an issue, only if I would press F1 first it would lock22:08
saptechanyway, I didn't want Slim so I switched to LXDM22:08
fsmithredhow's lxdm working for you?22:12
fsmithredI'm using lxdm in Refracta now22:13
saptechso far so good  :)22:15
saptechI like to switch user with the family and once before I had problems with some other DMs, but lxdm worked fine22:15
fsmithredsaptech, are you using consolekit or elogind with it?22:20
James1138If I may make a suggest for future versions of Devuan...  I am finding "File-Roller" handles a wider variety of compressed files than Xarchiver.22:30

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