freenode/#devuan/ Friday, 2018-10-12

man_in_shackwhat would cause apt to not show long descriptions?01:45
man_in_shacki'm only getting the one-line description of packages01:45
gnarfaceman_in_shack: do you have a before/after example02:02
man_in_shacki don't know what caused this02:03
gnarfacedoes "apt-cache show [package name]" tell you what you expect, or has it changed too?02:04
booyahjust for apt or in general?02:04
booyahI have one before/after for unlelated topic.   well at least he got nice and fit/thin02:04
man_in_shackeudev shows long description02:04
gnarfaceman_in_shack: if it's only happening to a couple packages it's probably just a change made by the package maintainers, but if for example it's only happening to unchanged packages from debian, something could be up...02:07
man_in_shack/var/lib/apt/lists/**Packages are missing most of the long descriptions02:07
gnarfacebut eudev should be a devuan package, not debian, i thought.02:07
man_in_shackyah but it's coming from devuan's repo02:08
gnarfaceyea that's what i'm saying02:09
gnarfacethe debian packages just get passed through02:09
gnarfacebut you're saying eudev still has the long description02:10
gnarfaceso it's an exception from the rest?02:10
man_in_shacklooks like the passthrough packages from debian are missing descriptions02:11
gnarfacehmmm. it occurs to me that a lot of the devuan packages are just patched versions of a debian package.  but eudev i believe is an entirely original package.  that could be a clue.02:11
gnarfacedo you have any idea when you first saw this had changed?  did it just happen within the last 24 hours?02:12
man_in_shacksysvinit also has a long description02:12
man_in_shackgnarface: last couple of days i think02:12
man_in_shackmaybe debian has moved long description to Translation files?02:14
man_in_shack examples02:15
gnarfacei don't know but it seems like a possibility02:17
man_in_shackyup, that's the problem02:36
man_in_shackjust checked repo02:36
man_in_shack"known" for 3 months at least and no fucking progress02:45
gnarfacewell, there's a lot of work to be done02:51
gnarfacei'm sure they would welcome patches02:51
golinux<gnarface> i'm sure they would welcome patches03:07
golinuxman_in_shack: This ^^^03:07
man_in_shackbut it's SERVER-SIDE03:23
man_in_shackit's not a bug in apt, it's a deficiency in the mirror software03:23
gnarfacei believe it's called "amprolla3"03:24
man_in_shackstill depends on the server admin03:26
gnarfacei think that's the source03:28
ServiceRobothey guys03:28
ServiceRobotI'm constantly fighting with myself over the best way to manage my personal server, and it's keeping me from getting past the freaking initialization03:29
gnarfacewhat are you trying to do?03:29
ServiceRobotwell you see, the distribution I use uses runit as the init system, which works great. support in debian/devuan is... interesting to say the least03:30
ServiceRobotso I spent a lot of my time modifying it to work with different implementations03:31
ServiceRobotfirst and foremost, runit on devuan currently uses sysv-rc for booting up and shutting down. this is the part that's been bugging me for the last couple of weeks03:32
ServiceRobotif I'm trying to use an alternative init, why is running using old sysvinit scripts for starting up and shutting down?03:33
ServiceRobotso I made it use a set of custom scripts for starting up and shutting down, but I'm not sure how necessary any of it is03:34
ServiceRobotthat's where I'm at03:34
gnarfacei think there's a swap-in alternative to sysv-rc03:34
gnarfacedid you try that?03:34
gnarfacei forget what it's called03:34
ServiceRobotI don't want to use that. it's basically two inits at that point03:35
gnarfaceno i thought there was something called file-rc too03:36
ServiceRobotunless someone can throw an argument saying using sysvinit scripts isn't bad. I just want to use something else03:36
ServiceRobotI remember seeing that too but I don't think it's available past ascii03:36
ServiceRobotand in fact file-rc depends on sysvinit-core03:37
ServiceRobotfrom looking at how debian does it openrc can be used as a virtual dependency but that's not what I want either03:38
gnarfacei assume they're doing this so there's compatibility with sysvinit scripts or something03:39
ServiceRobotthe main benefit of runit is how easy it is to create services. it just uses old initscripts to boot and shutdown03:39
gnarfacei also assume there should be an easy way to shut it off...03:39
ServiceRobotya, I looked into it and it runs scripts in /etc/rc2.d or a "replacement" script03:40
ServiceRobotbut I got the impression that if I'm going to use runit, I should avoid anything to do with sysvinit?03:40
ServiceRobotafter all, sysvinit is aging?03:40
gnarfaceit's harmful to think of software in those terms03:41
gnarfaceit's mental damage, like a socially contractible virus03:41
gnarfacebut it's fine to just want something simpler03:42
ServiceRobotwell I suppose. looking at the scripts themselves, they're fairly simple. runit is even simpler though03:42
ServiceRobotrunit in itself has been around a very long time as well03:42
gnarfacewhat do you have in /etc/runit?03:42
gnarfacedid you copy the contents of /usr/share/doc/runit/debian/* to that?03:42
gnarfacei'm just trying to get an idea how out-of-date this is:
ServiceRobotthat information is outdated. it's already installed to /etc/runit03:43
ServiceRobotthing is past ascii "runit-init" is an available package03:43
ServiceRobotyet the "stage" files remain the same. I'm not so sure if any changes are needed03:43
ServiceRobotI just want to do this right03:44
ServiceRobotsure, I could just say screw it and use it how it is, but I want to understand everything I'm doing03:44
ServiceRobotjust for testing purposes, I replaced all the files in /etc/runit with modified files for the implementation in the distro I use for my desktop03:45
gnarfacedo you have the package init-system-helpers?03:46
ServiceRobotit works, but if I'm going to be running devuan as a personal server I'm worried about maintenance, or if I missed a few details03:46
ServiceRobotinit-system-helpers is a required packagee03:46
gnarfacerunit-init isn't a package?03:47
gnarfaceyou have runit-sysv installed instead?03:48
ServiceRobotnope, runit-init is a package03:48
ServiceRobotit's only available in ceres or beowulf03:48
ServiceRobotI'm just not sure where to go from here03:49
gnarfaceyou could try to build the one from ceres or beowulf (looks like they're the same version right now)03:50
gnarfaceyou could also wait patiently for beowulf to go stable03:50
ServiceRobotI already tried beowulf. it actually works fine from what I tested03:50
gnarfacethat's an option too then03:51
gnarfacethere's risks with all of the approaches03:51
ServiceRobotbut that begs the question: should I modify how the debian/devuan runit scripts work, or use them how they are?03:51
ServiceRobotthat's the big question I've been stuck on03:52
gnarfacewell if you know what you're doing then just make sure you make a backup03:52
gnarfaceand if you don't, maybe try to figure out what they're doing before you hate on  them03:52
gnarfacei admit i went with ceres03:53
gnarfacebut i'm using sysvinit and i like it03:53
ServiceRobotwell all runit does in debian's implementation is replace "long-running" services. it uses everything else from sysvinit03:55
ServiceRobotit doesn't use pid files and looks much cleaner03:55
ServiceRobotthat's why it depends on sysv-rc but sysvinit-core can be removed03:55
ServiceRobotI talked to one of the devs in an email and they said they would consider changes, but I'm not sure where that's going03:56
gnarfacei can't speak to how difficult those changes would be03:57
ServiceRobotwell considering I was able to get runit booting and shutting down without using sysv-rc scripts, I imagine not impossible03:58
gnarfacethere might be a easy way for you to bypass the sysv-rc stuff, but the fact runit-init was there, then wasn't, then was again, suggests there's a deeper issue at hand...03:58
ServiceRobotnah, it wasn't available in previous releases since this is a new runit version03:58
ServiceRobotit's available in ceres and beowulf03:59
ServiceRobotprevious releases don't have it03:59
ServiceRobotI'm starting to think for my own sanity I should just use runit the way debian intended it for now04:02
ServiceRobotbut idk04:02
ServiceRobotif something official does get put in place and I'm using custom scripts migration would be made a lot more difficult due to "unintended" changes I made04:04
ServiceRobotare sysvinit scripts being supported in the long haul or will openrc take center stage?04:04
ServiceRobotI'm trying to think long-term here04:05
golinuxopenrc MAY be default in beowulf.  It's been discussed04:05
gnarfacei don't know the official answer to that, i don't work here.  i haven't heard anything official about it being migrated out.  the distro was founded on freedom of choice04:05
gnarfaceoh, golinux knows the official answers, ServiceRobot04:06
golinuxI can still be wrong though.  ;)04:08
gnarfacewell i've heard a rumor of it before but i hope defaults don't get messed with, in general04:09
golinuxI'm sure there will be plenty of discussion when work revs up again.04:10
gnarfaceit does look like runit is getting more options either way though, and i'm in favor of that04:12
ServiceRobotbut what does "more options" mean? are there more details I can read?04:14
gnarfacei'm just referring to the extra package04:15
gnarfacei'm sure there's explanations ... somewhere04:16
ServiceRobotwhat extra package?04:17
gnarfacerunit-init, the one we're just talking about04:19
golinuxgnarface: There are no definitive discussions that I remember.  Just bits and pieces here and there and at meets04:22
man_in_shackso i have another batshit crazy idea09:11
man_in_shackno idea if it will work09:12
man_in_shackbut if i can use mpi/beowulf to offload bluray decoding to my ryzen box for playback ... :D09:13
_abc_Hello. Where is linux kernel driver programming best discussed.17:14
KatolaZ_abc_: Linux Device Drivers, Corbet, Rubini, Kroah-Hartman17:16
_abc_Which edition.17:18
_abc_I read the 1st, we're no longer using 2.x series kernels...17:19
_abc_I read it in 1998 or whatever. And wrote my own tiny drivers etc.17:19
KatolaZ_abc_: if you have already written drivers, the kernel code is the best place to start17:20
_abc_I am reading that. Again, since last night it was very late.17:22
_abc_Ok, I wrote bs, the usblp.c opens and creates the devices as expected, ok.17:25
_abc_Okay I'll dig in the doc tree17:33
_abc_What's kzalloc? new style of in kernel ram heap management?17:36
GyrosGeier_abc_, Kernel Zeroinitialized ALLOC18:08
GyrosGeierso kmalloc followed by memset18:09
_abc_Note> that site sucks, get it elsewhere.18:13
_abc_Also one wants the 4th edition, that is not the 4th18:14
_abc_What are my chances to find someone who dumped the printer side ieee1284 negotiation of a PL2305? Zero. Sigh.18:17
system16how can i put devuan into suspend ?19:23
system16whats the command for it ?19:23
mchasardwhat is the commande line to configure locales ? pleas ?19:41
_stephen_mchasard: assuming you edited /etc/locale.gen I think you just run locale-gen19:43
_stephen_Or maybe dpkg-reconfigure locales is what you want, so you can pick locales, but I think that's a front end for the previously mentioned thing19:44
mchasardhum i have to edit first /etc/locale.gen ?19:45
_stephen_system16: I know you can echo stuff to /sys/power/state for that but maybe that's not what you want...19:45
_stephen_mchasard: or use the dpkg-reconfigure command and then pick from the list and it should edit it for you...19:45
_stephen_I like elipsis...19:46
mchasardi just do it and choose19:47
mchasardi run the new crowz iso derivative from devuan19:50
mchasardso i choose the good locales running dpkg19:56
mchasardbut how to get french language all over soft ?19:56
_stephen_You probably added a french locale, but it's likely not your default.19:59
mchasardhum ah ok how to make it by default please ?19:59
_stephen_You can set a variable for it if it's just your user, or set a system wide default, I think that's done via /etc/profile...19:59
_stephen_You set LANG in your /etc/profile and that should do it.20:00
mchasardi'm under this file20:01
mchasardi can't see any line about language20:01
_stephen_Actually, dpkg should have asked you what you wanted for a default...20:01
mchasardyes and i can see it also in the file /etc/loale.ge20:02
_stephen_did you happen to log out or open a new terminal and check the output of locale ?20:02
_stephen_Instead of logging out, I like to just su - to my user, then I don't lose stuff that's open.20:03
mchasardso in a new terminal i tape su20:04
_stephen_just as a test...  for example: su - mchasard20:04
_stephen_then locale -a20:04
_stephen_sorry, no -a20:05
_stephen_just locale20:05
_stephen_you should see LANG= at the top set to what you picked in dpkg.20:05
_stephen_Alternately, you could echo $LANG20:05
mchasardi have C,C.utf.8, fr.FR.utf8 posix20:05
_stephen_echo $LANG should say fr.FR.utf8 in your case20:05
_stephen_if it does, then you just need to log out and back in so everything sees that as the locale.20:06
mchasardyes its fr.FR.utf820:06
mchasardi have to reboot ?20:06
_stephen_just log out and back in20:06
mchasardah ok20:06
mchasardlet me logogg20:07
mchasardepiphany in this rom is the default browser20:08
mchasardbut videos doesnt work20:09
mchasardi have to install gstreamer but i think its already install20:09
mchasardgood , bad ugly20:09
mchasardi will come baack sorry thanks20:12

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