libera/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2018-10-23

Death_Syni still use socklog here00:00
* DocScrutinizer05 detects a massive misconception about the concept of cloaks in gnarface00:24
gnarfaceDocScrutinizer05: please enlighten me then00:31
DocScrutinizer05honestly wouldn't know where to start. All I can say I already said and suggested you read the info. You either didn't or your learning from it differs massively to what I read there00:32
DocScrutinizer05anyway the terms 'stealth' and 'cloak' have very few in common00:33
DocScrutinizer05and there's no way whatsoever that a cloak use could gain momentum without the namespace owners (devuan admins) handing out cloaks00:34
DocScrutinizer05"we might start printing badges when we see more than 50% are wearing those badges" HAHA00:36
gnarfacehang on00:36
gnarfacehave you been having a conversation with someone else and thinking it was me?00:37
DocScrutinizer05I'm reading backscroll00:37
gnarfacedoes your backscroll say i said this??  -> "we might start printing badges when we see more than 50% are wearing those badges"00:37
DocScrutinizer05no, this is a parapheasing by me00:38
gnarfacemaybe you're misunderstanding the way i used "stealth" in this context00:38
gnarfacei didn't mean "stealth" from a network security standpoint00:38
gnarfacei meant "stealth" like how native tribes would walk in single-file lines across large distances to disguise their numbers00:39
gnarfacea single file path in the snow could be 20 men or 20,00000:39
gnarfaceyou don't know00:39
DocScrutinizer05>>[2018-10-22 00:59:27] <gnarface> i really thought it would be better for the project if nobody thought it was very popular until after it was already very popular<<00:39
gnarfaceimportantly, that means you can't plan for it00:39
gnarfaceyea00:39
gnarfaceexactly00:39
gnarfacethat's what i meant by stealth00:39
gnarfacewhereas if we're trying to increase visibility by encouraging a "show of support" prematurely, all we do is draw the ire of someone with an actual army00:40
DocScrutinizer05and this is what I paraphrased00:40
gnarfacewell the community has been steadily gaining in traction and the only threats i see are the misinformation campaigns which i think are directly reactionary and would evaporate if we weren't known about00:41
DocScrutinizer05"showing support prematurely" sounds very odd, a ~4 years into the project lifetime00:41
gnarfaceand in the meantime i don't think that it would negatively impact adoption rates, because those seem to be very organic in cause00:42
gnarfaceprematurely isn't about a time frame here00:42
gnarfaceit's about having enough numbers to defend ourselves from coordinated misinformation attacks00:42
gnarfacebut stand up too quickly and someone is likely to cut off the head of a perceived threat00:43
DocScrutinizer05that's too spin doctor and tinfoil hat for me00:43
DocScrutinizer05there isd no "threat" I would know of00:44
DocScrutinizer05no battles and no strategy00:44
DocScrutinizer05and if I already hadn't a cloak I prefer better, I'd waer devuan/community without being scared about attacks or some "cutting off heads" or whatever00:46
DocScrutinizer05misinformation campaigns were around since inception of devuan, and even before, about debian move towards systemd00:49
DocScrutinizer05I don't think they would dwindle if nobody stands up and says "this is the wrong way"00:50
DocScrutinizer05of course I'd think twice before I /join #debian with a devuan/community cloak, asking for help in #debiamn00:53
DocScrutinizer05after thinking twice, I'd prolly do it nevertheless, feeling prepared to stand any debate and flame throwing about devuan00:54
terraguys, is 4.9.0-6 latest available kernel?13:20
furrymcgeehttps://packages.qa.debian.org/l/linux.html13:28
FlibberTGibbethad some pausing while 'trying to connect to libvirt' or somesuch on my ascii laptop. this was after uninstalling/purging anything connected to libvirt. ended up backing up/removing libvirt-guests and virtlogd from /etc/init.d and removing links from /etc/rc<n>.d, now all fine. is that normal or did i miss something obvious when uninstalling those packages?13:37
FlibberTGibbetshould mention that the pausing was during shutdown13:38
FlibberTGibbetso the service appeared to be up although it can't have been doing much as *libvirt* was uninstalled :)13:38
amarsh04terra, are you including unstable in your /etc/apt/sources.list ?14:09
amarsh04e.g.14:09
amarsh04deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf main contrib non-free14:09
amarsh04deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged unstable main contrib non-free14:09
* man_in_shack flails14:29
man_in_shack<terra> guys, is 4.9.0-6 latest available kernel?   << not if you roll your own (:14:29
man_in_shackso i have a kernel crash dump and i have no idea what to do with it :D14:30
man_in_shackalso fun fact: sata ssds are CRAPLOADS faster than usb flash drives :P14:31
unixman_homeProbably much better iops on the SATA BUS is the reason. While USB is useful generally it is unlikely to give better results than a dedicated BUS to a specific task.14:38
man_in_shackalso the internels of the drive14:38
unixman_homes/the reason/part of the reason/ <- should have been.14:38
man_in_shackflash memory is slow, dedicated ssds get around that by doing a funky raid-0 like thing internally14:38
man_in_shackmeans MUCH better sustained i/o14:39
* unixman_home nods14:39
man_in_shackright now i'm considering downgrading this kernel to something roughly as old as the cpu :P14:40
man_in_shackcpu is 10 years old14:40
man_in_shacksee if this memory leak or whatever it is has appeared in the code since then14:41
man_in_shackand now shitdows has also exploded. "unexpected_kernel_mode_trap" in dxgmms2.sys14:52
man_in_shackhahahaha @ suggested solutions for it. "1. reinstall graphics driver; 2. disable hardware acceleration"14:53
man_in_shackso guessing it's a directx graphics memory management thingy14:54
nemoman_in_shack: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01NARBPI7/  these suckers are about 200MB/s - compared to the 500MB/s for your SATA14:58
nemoman_in_shack: fast enough for me to use it as a portable linux to boot up random machines ☺14:58
nemolong long ago I used mini-CDs for that, spent sooo long tweaking the ISO so that it autoloaded my standard home from my remote machine.14:58
terraamarsh04: I saw that 4.9.0-8 available then I just installed it.14:58
koollmannemo: are they really that fast ?15:00
koollmanI've yet to find fast (or even decent) usb drives15:00
nemokoollman: https://lifehacker.com/five-best-usb-3-0-flash-drives-1733112413  found a review - won't attest to it, but these things are pretty nice15:01
nemokoollman: my work computer is old and crappy and doesn't even have USB3 or I'd do a speed test for you15:01
man_in_shacknemo: "up to"15:01
nemohm? where?15:01
man_in_shackit's 200MB/s best case scenario15:01
man_in_shackanyway15:01
nemo"The SanDisk Extreme USB 3.0 64GB flash drive (shown above) boasts transfer speeds of 245 MB/s read and 190 MB/s write"15:01
nemolemme find another review15:02
man_in_shacknot that i care :P15:02
man_in_shackthis headless box is booting off usb storage anyway :P15:02
man_in_shackjust chucked the ssd in for the space for the vmcore dump15:03
koollmannemo: yeah I mean it boasts it. But did they test ? :)15:03
man_in_shack^15:03
nemohttps://usb.userbenchmark.com/Compare/SanDisk-Extreme-Pro-USB-30-128GB-vs-SanDisk-Cruzer-Blade-16GB/m7603vsm134915:03
man_in_shackit's probably linear reads15:03
man_in_shacknot random i/o15:04
nemoyeah. random is much worse as noted there15:04
nemoman_in_shack: but aren't large transfers usually, well, linear?15:04
nemoimage flash15:04
nemodownloading packages15:04
man_in_shackyah15:04
nemoSSD probably has similar issues15:04
man_in_shackunless you put a filesystem on it ;)15:04
nemoalthough probablym uch larger buffers15:04
nemoman_in_shack: sure. but again, if you're writing small files, 12MB/s is still blazing fast15:05
man_in_shackssds mitigate the issue of random i/o by doing this funky multi-chip management stuff15:05
nemoif you're writing large images or movies, you're back to the linear again15:05
nemoanyway. seems to work well for me15:05
man_in_shackANYWAY15:05
nemoand relatively cheap15:05
man_in_shackpoint is15:05
nemoaaaaand much easier to plug into machines ☺15:05
man_in_shack$40 120GB ssd did a 5GB memory dump in a minute or two15:06
man_in_shackusb key, many more minutes15:06
nemosure. was just noting the USB key you use, matters a lot15:06
man_in_shackthough that would have been the slowass patriot key15:06
KohlrabiDoes reportbug always submit bugs to Debian bugtracker, i.e. devuan doesn't have one for its own custom packages?15:22
fsmithredKohlrabi, bugs.devuan.org15:25
fsmithreduse reportbug to create the email and send it to submit@bugs.devuan.org15:28
Kohlrabifsmithred: OK, thanks15:45
Kohlrabifsmithred: I guess I can set that in ~/.reportbugrc to submit submit@bugs.devuan.org, right?15:46
fsmithredI don't know. I compose my reports manually.15:47
KatolaZKohlrabi: yes, you can15:47
Kohlrabigood.15:49
KohlrabiAre bugs forwarded to debian bugtracker iff the package is taken drietcly from them?15:49
Kohlrabidirectly*15:49
KatolaZnot automatically15:49
KatolaZso if the package comes from Debian, it's better to file the bug upstream15:50
KatolaZ(to Debian)15:50
KohlrabiYep, understood15:50
KohlrabiHave done so in the past15:50
KatolaZKohlrabi: which package is that?15:50
KatolaZok15:50
KohlrabiIn general15:50
KatolaZshout if you need more info/help15:50
Kohlrabispecically I had a problem with mate-desktop-environment15:50
Kohlrabiin debian buster it's currently not installable with sysvinit-core15:50
KohlrabiThat's the reason why I switched to devuan, actually15:51
Kohlrabisystemd-shit creeping into my desktop environment of choice by some wird backdoor15:51
Kohlrabiweird*15:51
KatolaZKohlrabi: mate-desktop can be installed by using elogind15:55
KatolaZthey have a hard dep on libpam-systemd15:55
nemoit's supposedly an error right?15:55
Kohlrabiooh15:55
KatolaZelogind Provides: libpam-systemd15:55
nemomate folks said it wasn't actually necessary?15:55
KohlrabiKatolaZ: Thanks, too late, though :)15:55
KatolaZbut elogind is not available in Debian15:55
KohlrabiI already switched and I'm happy so far15:55
KohlrabiAh, OK15:56
KatolaZand in Devuan the version for Beowulf (buster) is not available yet15:56
KatolaZyou could use the version available in ascii15:56
KatolaZnemo: nothing is necessary15:56
nemogoing to be getting a pinebook in a couple of weeks, would love to install devuan on it, but the devuan arm folks are not being very encouraging.15:56
KatolaZunless you want automagic everywhere15:56
KatolaZ(mounting, unmounting, etc.)15:56
nemoso gonna stick with their ubuntu xenial image for a bit15:56
KatolaZnemo: what do you mean?15:57
KohlrabiKatolaZ: There is nothing like https://packages.debian.org for devuan yet, right?15:57
nemoKatolaZ: gnarface who hangs out here was saying support for the hardware in debian was not great15:57
KatolaZpkginfo.devuan.org15:57
Kohlrabi(or ever)15:57
nemoKatolaZ: GPU is most essential, but also peripherals15:57
KatolaZKohlrabi: it's a simplified version though15:57
Kohlrabiah, great15:57
KatolaZwe are working on it15:58
KatolaZ(help is always welcome)15:58
Kohlrabito be honest, ideally Debian folks wake up and this schism wouldn't be necessary15:58
KohlrabiSo the doubling of the effort15:58
KohlrabiIsn't the tooling which does packages.debian open source?15:59
nemoKohlrabi: https://popcon.debian.org/stat/vendors.png  devuan is at least as popular as raspbian.16:04
nemoKohlrabi: although some distros are optout instead of optin on popcon - no idea WRT the standard raspbian images.16:05
nemobut that's definitely the case for Wazo - they said they were going to fix it though16:05
nemoKohlrabi: unfortunately compared to debian itself it's still small fry. and debian is dwarfed by ubuntu16:05
nemoso hoping for support of both is probably rather unlikely16:06
KohlrabiI just think Debian folks should make all (relevant?) inits first class citizens again16:07
Kohlrabiand just drop packages which break init freedom16:07
Kohlrabibye bye GNOME16:07
nemoheh16:07
KohlrabiI think people should be able to install systemd if they want to, but don't constantly breka my shit with your feature creep16:08
Kohlrabibreak*16:08
nemohmmm16:08
nemohttp://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_remove_systemd_from_an_Ubuntu_Xenial_installation16:08
nemoI wonder if I could do that on pine64's devuan16:08
nemoer16:09
nemo*ubuntu16:09
nemoguess I'll find out16:09
Kohlrabi:]16:09
MinceRi think that ship has sailed16:10
nemoMinceR: mostly all I hope for is that the anti-systemd folks have enough of a voice that the overall linux ecosystem will be forced to continue to support them16:13
nemoMinceR: and that it won't end up being one all-consuming cancer with tentacles in every aspect of the system's function16:13
terraanyone using an older version of a gtk2 chromium?16:16
MinceRi wonder if there even will be a "linux ecosystem" once gkh is done with it16:17
terra:)16:17
terrafltk rules16:17
KatolaZKohlrabi: complaining about that seems useless16:18
KatolaZDebian has gone with systemd16:18
Kohlrabias default init, yes16:18
KohlrabiDoesn't mean packages shouldn't be able to run without it16:19
KohlrabiI realize it's too late16:19
KatolaZnemo: that statistics is not relevant16:19
KatolaZnemo: please look at popcon.devuan.org16:19
KatolaZ;)16:19
KohlrabiDebian leaders should have made it mandatory for packages to work in both inits16:19
Kohlrabiand if not, drop them16:19
KatolaZKohlrabi: :)16:19
KatolaZa Debian leader (Ian Jackson) tried to do that16:19
KatolaZwith the GR in late 201416:19
KohlrabiYep16:19
KohlrabiYep16:19
KatolaZ:)16:19
Kohlrabi*sigh*16:20
KohlrabiMore division is always bad, while people should stick together16:20
KatolaZKohlrabi: about the tooling, yes, (most of) the tools used byu Debian are free and available16:20
KatolaZthe main problem is that the are invariably tied up to the Debian way of doing things16:20
KatolaZand most of them are quite hard to adapt/modify for other cases16:20
KatolaZKohlrabi: yes, division is bad16:21
KatolaZbut the alternative was to have a system where you cannot avoid to have systemd at install time16:21
KohlrabiYep16:21
KohlrabiOr use....Slackware *shudder*16:21
KatolaZ(and in which having some stuff working without systemd is impossible)16:21
KatolaZyes16:21
KatolaZsure16:21
KohlrabiI applaud your efforts16:22
KohlrabiI fear evil forces abound, with the ousting of Linus from the kernel, the ousting of Guido etc.16:22
KohlrabiInteresting times16:23
nemoKohlrabi: gentoo still supports both officially16:23
Kohlrabinemo: I'm 35 already, I don't have enough time for gentoo.16:23
Kohlrabi:P16:23
KatolaZKohlrabi: all times are interesting ones, if you live them fully ;)16:25
nemoKohlrabi: heh. I still have a fair # of gentoo machines. they aren't *that* high maintenance16:26
nemothe one I'm on right now actually16:26
nemoanyway. a package mask... https://m8y.org/tmp/package_mask.txt16:27
nemothat's the far more aggressive no-poettering one16:27
Kohlrabinemo: I was wondering, can you use bluetooth playback hardware without PA16:28
KohlrabiI didn't dive into it, yet16:28
KohlrabiPA "just works" for now16:28
KohlrabiBut I'd like to use pure ALSA16:28
Kohlrabiif I disable PA, the mixer in MATE desktop fails16:28
nemoI don't bother with that aggressiveness on devuan frankly16:29
nemotoo much trouble16:29
nemoI also don't have any bluetooth playback anywhere except on my phone though16:29
KohlrabiI have a bluetooth headset which desyncs in De[bv][iu]an with PA.16:30
KohlrabiDoesn't do so on a Windows machine I tried16:30
KohlrabiSo watching videos is impossible16:30
Kohlrabi:\16:31
nemointeresting. synchronising bluetooth is kinda tricky16:32
nemoI've never had any luck with it on my phone16:32
Kohlrabiindeed16:32
nemoalways had to manually adjust audio track settings in vlc16:32
KohlrabiI played around with the settings, to no avail16:32
nemowonder how windows does it - maybe database of bluetooth models?16:32
KohlrabiDunno16:32
KohlrabiWindows audio seems to just work flawlessly16:32
KohlrabiIn most regards16:33
nemowell. that's what old skool headpohones are for16:33
nemoKohlrabi: well, manufactures tend to work in concert with windows since they have a huge incentive to do so16:33
Kohlrabiindeed16:33
nemoKohlrabi: there was a little play at my kid's preschool and the mother running performance had the bright idea of using a portable bluetooth speaker she'd bought for her iphone as the sound system16:34
nemoKohlrabi: only... I'm sure she'd only ever used it with like music...16:34
Kohlrabioh dear16:35
nemothe mic was several seconds out of sync with the speaker causing horrendous feedback16:35
nemowell. maybe just a second out of sync, but still plenty for all kinds of feedback effects16:35
nemohad no idea what the kid was saying. he might as well have been shouting his lines into a cement mixer16:35
nemogee... if only iphones still had audio jacks..16:36
Kohlrabi:}16:36
KohlrabiOldschool audio with long cables everywhere has its benefits16:36
KohlrabiThese BT headphones are noise cancelling though, quite nice for the office16:37
Kohlrabi(though there are only 2 more people in here)16:37
furrywolfthe general rule for live sound reinforcement is that no digital hardware not explicitly intended for live sound reinforcement be anywhere in the signal path...16:37
furrywolfand this includes PCs, something many DJs and other ruiners-of-audio have a hard time understanding.16:38
nemoeh... the big clunky old headphones work almost as well - saw an interesting thing one dude did with high quality earmuffs and a cheapo bluetooth headset tho ☺16:38
nemothink it was on HN a week or so back16:38
nemohttps://www.instructables.com/id/Hearing-ProtectionBluetooth-in-Disguise/ was something like this I guess16:40
nemobluetooth obv but just for playing audio that's fine16:40
nemousing an old earbud with a long cable would probably make the project even more trivial16:41
nemoheck could probably just buy earmuffs and slip an earbud inside it16:41
furrywolftypical computer audio works by recording a buffer, processing that buffer, then outputting the buffer, introducing unacceptable delays.  real-time digital audio hardware works on individual samples instead of buffers, running it through DSP chips.  you _can_ get typical PC hardware down to semi-acceptable delays with specialized software that uses teeny tiny buffers and a real-time kernel, but...  let's just say you don't see PCs as part of actual sound16:42
Kohlrabilive reproduction16:42
nemothat buffer thing is why I refuse to believe my coworker who is convinced apple will solve the BT lag problems16:44
nemoevery BT headset I've tried has *either* had lag that you have to handle in playback/recording or a buffer that's down a "less noticeable" like ¼ second or something... and with stuttering16:45
koollmanfurrywolf: well, it depends if you can manage lag or not16:45
nemoI guess the issue is just that apple clearly does not have a database of every single cheapo BT device people are going to pair with their iphone. once they have that fixed...16:46
nemoor maybe they'll just support blessed apple peripherals16:46
koollmanfurrywolf: for many DJ setup ... it doesn't matter much, they aren't treating external sound, they're producing it. they can have seconds of lag as long as it's all sync to what they are working with/on16:47
furrywolfbrb16:47
koollman(all your other points are absolutely correct. It's what makes sound-processing for some VR experiences kind of hard :) )16:47
furrywolfkoollman:  I said sound reinforcement, not reproduction.  :)17:23
furrywolfbbl, errands17:29
* man_in_shack reinforces furrywolf17:29
man_in_shackwhat's this about lagging audio?17:29
* furrywolf becomes furrywolfverine17:30
man_in_shack<furrywolf> typical computer audio works by recording a buffer, processing that buffer, then outputting the buffer, introducing unacceptable delays.  real-time digital audio hardware works on individual samples instead of buffers, running it through DSP chips.  you _can_ get typical PC hardware down to semi-acceptable delays with specialized software that uses teeny tiny buffers and a real-time kernel, but...17:30
man_in_shack let's just say you don't see PCs as part of actual sound   << right17:30
man_in_shack<nemo> I guess the issue is just that apple clearly does not have a database of every single cheapo BT device people are going to pair with their iphone. once they have that fixed...   << wait, what?17:30
furrywolf...  delays with specialized software that uses teeny tiny buffers and a real-time kernel, but...  let's just say you don't see PCs as part of actual sound reinforcement systems.  :P17:31
man_in_shackbluetooth inherently has a delay17:31
* man_in_shack agrees with furrywolf17:31
furrywolfthe last two words matter!17:31
furrywolflol17:31
man_in_shackdid the 2nd line not appear?17:31
man_in_shackfurrywolf: i do sound production/engineering shizzle17:31
man_in_shackeven the sexiest of digital mixing desks introduce a few samples worth of delay into the system that you don't get with analogue equivalents17:32
furrywolfgot a couple spare parametric EQs and an amp?  I'm sick of fiddling with sliders, and my stack of dead amps is quite a bit larger than my stack of working amps...17:32
man_in_shackheh17:32
man_in_shackyou don't want the amp i have17:33
man_in_shackand all my gear is in-the-box plugins. can't afford the REAL stuff17:33
furrywolfthe last failure was my trusty yamaha p2100 lost a channel...17:34
man_in_shackeven tried to sell my focusrite saffire pro 24. got a scarlet 2i2 to replace it with17:34
furrywolfbefore that my crown xti1000 started distorting both channels as well as only powering up half the time17:34
furrywolfthen I have a pyle that is, indeed, a total pile...17:34
man_in_shackno bites on the saffire, so the other day i bought $45 worth of firewire controller to run it on the new desktop17:34
furrywolfa nady with one channel...17:34
furrywolfmy stewart pa-1000 takes a full fucking minute to power up...17:35
man_in_shackif i can clear some space i got a couple of fostex studio monitors to set up17:35
furrywolfI'm happy with my monitors...  a pair of JBL 4312s.  :)17:35
man_in_shacknice17:35
furrywolf2ft from me17:35
man_in_shackwith 12in woofer drivers?17:36
furrywolf...  currently running off the stewart, because the yamaha I used to run them off of...   grrrr.17:36
furrywolfyep17:36
man_in_shackman, 2ft from those would probably break my ears :P17:36
furrywolfyou don't have to turn the volume all the way up, you know.  :P17:36
furrywolfthat's what the other six speakers in the room are for, anyway.  :)17:37
man_in_shackhehe17:37
furrywolfI have the JBL 4312s on my desk, a pair of 14" 6-way sansuis flanking them, then behind me a pair of 16" 5-way sansuis, and a pair of 12" pioneers...   I would have my JBL L100Ts on either side of the JBL 4312s, but they need refoaming.17:38
man_in_shacknice17:38
man_in_shackhttp://www.johncurtinhotel.com/specs.php  << i mixed a gig at this place last week17:39
man_in_shackdamn fine sounding pa there17:39
nemoman_in_shack: what I meant was, if you know what the delay *is* you can reduce some of the worst sins17:39
man_in_shacki think they've upgraded some of the stuff from that list. definitely the mics17:39
man_in_shacknemo: yeah, by not using bluetooth at all17:40
nemoheh17:40
furrywolf"Now taking bookings for all genres of music for every night of the week. "  aka "we're desparate"?  :P17:40
nemoman_in_shack: that's the more sensible approach sure17:40
nemoman_in_shack: I just was referring to my coworker's blind faith that apple would fix these problems with video playback and microphone feedback17:40
man_in_shackHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA17:40
man_in_shack(:17:40
nemoman_in_shack: which could be... managed... with knowledge of just what each device's default delays were17:40
man_in_shack"default delays"17:41
furrywolfbluetooth also has quality issues, range issues,...17:41
nemowhich is presumably what windows is doing in the case above17:41
man_in_shack^17:41
nemofurrywolf: sure absolutely17:41
man_in_shackit's gonna be some weird codecfoo17:41
furrywolfI'm using good old-fashioned analog FM at my shop/storage.17:41
nemofurrywolf: I was just trying to imagine what apple's end-game was after stripping the audio jack, besides "closing the analog hole"17:41
man_in_shackthe end-game is to sell more accessories17:42
nemo10:30 < Kohlrabi> I have a bluetooth headset which desyncs in De[bv][iu]an with PA.17:42
nemo10:30 < Kohlrabi> Doesn't do so on a Windows machine I tried17:42
nemoman_in_shack: ↑ WRT "default delays" I was trying to imagine how windows could be managing the trick above17:42
man_in_shackthe "analogue hole" is not closed. the signal is still there, just on the lightning instead of a dedicated port17:43
nemoonly thing I figure is maybe it was using the BT device IDs to automatically correct windows media player audio track lag17:43
man_in_shacknemo: probably a different bluetooth version17:43
man_in_shack4.2 instead of 4.0 or something17:43
nemooh. guess it depends what he means by desyncs17:43
man_in_shackdriver support17:43
nemoI thought he meant track lag17:43
nemoKohlrabi?17:43
man_in_shackcould mean ALL the things17:43
furrywolfman_in_shack:  and then there's my pile of fixing-needed classic hifi...  two pioneer sx-828s, a sx-1010, a sansui quad, a biiig sansui, two kenwood l07ms, a marantz preamp, a marantz amp, a fisher amp, and about ten other things I'm forgetting what they are...17:44
man_in_shackmaybe the a2dp codec in bluez is shit?17:44
man_in_shackfurrywolf: fix ALL the things!17:44
furrywolfI have too many projects.  :(17:44
man_in_shacki might have a look at getting dad's old b&o turntable and amp working again17:45
furrywolfcurrent project is clearing space in my storage unit for my cnc router table, because it's under a tarp right now and the rainy season is coming...17:45
man_in_shackbut otherwise, i'm really a studio/live guy. not into hifi gear17:45
nemowell. friend of mine insists entire BlueZ stack is useless crap - he ended up writing his own bluetooth communication when working on the Nielsen devices17:46
nemobut, yeah, haven't looked at it. just know he ranted about it a lot17:47
man_in_shackmy music player for the car is a cheapass android phone connected by bluetooth, and that's just because 3.5mm is a bitch for interference/ground loop shit17:47
furrywolfbbl, need to get an oil change on my van and run it through the car wash, get kerosene, and other errands.17:48
man_in_shackmy old player just gave nasty clicking sounds if it was plugged into the car battery17:48
man_in_shackgot this ground lift device for its 3.5mm jack and then the bastard worked17:49
man_in_shackit's like the ONE place where bluetooth audio isn't shit17:49
man_in_shackand having track prev/next buttons on the steering wheel is kinda nice ;P17:50
man_in_shack:P17:50
man_in_shacknow, can i get devuan to run on it? :P17:50
nemofurrywolf: gas station down the road charges $20 if you provide your own oil (and optionally filter).  I thought that was nice of them17:51
nemoin this area that's a damn cheap labour charge17:51
Kohlrabinemo: A/V desyncs with PA on Linux18:10
KohlrabiPretty much instantly18:10
KohlrabiI dunno how Windows does the resync?18:11
KohlrabiThis works for youtube for example, with both Firefox and Blink based browsers18:11
nemoKohlrabi: ttps://askubuntu.com/questions/145935/get-rid-of-0-5s-latency-when-playing-audio-over-bluetooth-with-a2dp  perhaps?18:16
nemoer18:16
nemohttps://askubuntu.com/questions/145935/get-rid-of-0-5s-latency-when-playing-audio-over-bluetooth-with-a2dp18:16
nemoKohlrabi: I was poking around to see if pulseaudio had a way to specify delay per sink18:16
nemono idea why this "reinit" thing is necessary, or even how it knows what the delay is18:16
nemomaybe it just guesses18:16
nemoKohlrabi: so reinit seems to be a pa bug specific fix18:17
nemoKohlrabi: but someone else in there mentions pactl set-port-latency-offset18:18
nemowhich was what I was looking for18:18
nemonot that I really need either one18:18
KohlrabiI tried several things to no avail18:18
KohlrabiAnd it seems to be non-trvial indeed18:19
KohlrabiBut Windows makes it "just work". :(18:19
nemoKohlrabi: the port latency wasn18:41
nemo't sufficient?18:41
nemoKohlrabi: I'm really inclined to think microsoft just has a better database of BT devices and their respective latencies, possibly submitted by manufacturers18:42
KohlrabiI'm not sure it's latency, I think it's dynamic18:44
Kohlrabii.e. the delay changes during use18:44
Kohlrabie.g. if you move too far away from the receiver the connection will break18:44
KohlrabiPA fails to resync after that, Windows does it18:44
Pr0metheusanyone by chance using linux-libre kernel with eudev? I am trying to install eudev and I get the error: http://paste.debian.net/1048660/19:10
nemoKohlrabi: ohhh I thought you were refering to the audio/video track desync in like vlc19:21
nemook yeah that's totally different19:21
nemoKohlrabi: https://launchpad.net/bt-autoconnect ?19:22
nemoKohlrabi: was reading https://askubuntu.com/questions/8409/autoconnecting-bluetooth-devices19:23
furrywolfnemo:  I go to the local drive-through place...  $50 and they wash your windows, top off your washer fluid, etc etc.20:06
Kohlrabinemo: thanks, that's not it, though20:11
Kohlrabiit stays paired20:12
KohlrabiBut it drops some "frames"20:12
KohlrabiThe audio that is20:12
Kohlrabithe video keeps running20:12
KohlrabiWell no20:12
KohlrabiIt does not properly drop them indeed20:12
KohlrabiThen it would be in sync :)20:12
nemoKohlrabi: oh. I'm sloooowly catching on ☺20:46
nemoKohlrabi: yeah, at that point, you're beyond my limited googling and knowledge of pulse - you should hassle their IRC channel. it's been quite helpful to me in the past20:47
furrywolfmy suggestion for pulse is --purge.21:01
furrywolfbbl, time for work21:07

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.0 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!