freenode/#devuan/ Tuesday, 2018-11-06

armindoes devuan support kde5 these days?01:04
arminok, re-phrasing, would i eventually miss anything? dbus maybe?01:05
gnarfacearmin: unless you really like Gnome you probably wouldn't miss anything01:10
gnarfacehere's a complete list of packages NOT present in ascii:
gnarfaceoh, actually that's not just ascii.  that's all the banned packages01:11
gnarfacehmm. maybe someone has fixed gnome even01:12
gnarfacefor a while people were using some 3rd party build of mate instead i think?01:13
armingnarface: well i'm not a fan of gnome so far, but i use KDE on some of my computers without any issues.01:15
armingnarface: i mostly use i3 and KDE for that matter, no idea why this weird choice of 2 entirely different things, but that's what works for me.01:16
arminthanks for that list.01:16
gnarfacethere's also this search page
gnarfaceif you're looking for something specific01:17
arminwell, i have a few bugs that annoy me about KDE that so far happen on debian (tested with testing and sid) but *not* on kde neon. i have zero idea why.01:17
arminperfect, thanks a lot.01:17
gnarfaceif they're systemd-related, you'll find out quickly in ascii01:18
gnarfacesysvinit will behave very differently.  if you're not familiar with it and you think something might be broken, make sure to ask about it before getting frustrated.  lots of stuff is locked due to the permission defaults being more secure.01:19
armingnarface: well since kde neon is based on ubuntu and ubuntu has systemd, too, these days, i don't think it's a systemd issue, but i don't like systemd either and would use anything non-systemd much more likely.01:19
armingnarface: so yes i'm looking for a non-systemd kde5 desktop currently. voidlinux could also be an option, no offense against devuan.01:20
gnarfacewell, depending on your hardware and drivers there could be compositing issues as well.  those won't be related to systemd.  they're frequently related to NVidia though01:20
armini have some on chip gpu (intel)01:20
armini'm fine when my windows have shadows and tuxracer runs01:21
kekePowerI also think Slackware has KDE without systemd01:21
gnarfacemost of those are known to work well if you have a new enough kernel and version of MESA01:21
gnarface(the intel GPUS that is)01:21
armini had excellent experience with devuan as a desktop a year ago or so. i should give devuan a try again.01:21
arminand that might well be biased or personal experience, but both me and a friend agree that our computers that run something systemd-less usually run more stable.01:23
armini'm entirely fine with editing a few hundred lines of bash.01:23
armini won't need to open any man-page and i know what i'm doing for the next years or so.01:23
armincompared to man systemd<TAB> with more than 160 hits for tab-completion that's smooth sail i'd say...01:24
DocScrutinizer05^^^ indeed01:26
arminmildly interesting and off-topic: these licorice candy bonbons i got are so incredibly super delicious. i remember waking up last night, taking the pack from my desk and going back into bed. then after waking up i realized i ate the whole pack except for 1 single very last bonbon that i kept just because i knew half-sleeping i would be pissed being awake next day realizing i ate the whole pack.01:30
arminbtw the devuan download servers saturate my downstream nicely. ;)01:33
DocScrutinizer05that's the way :-)01:34
blebjust installed ascii and i get a grub err02:09
bleberror: file '/boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod' not found02:09
blebanyone seen this before?02:09
gnarfacebleb: no, i haven't seen that one.  seems weird.  can you boot the machine with a live image and check to see if that file is really there?02:32
gnarfacei wouldn't expect files in there to go missing unless there was hardware failure or some sort of premature derailment of the install02:33
gnarfacedo you remember seeing any crazy errors towards the end of the installation process?02:34
gnarfaceor anything weird about how you installed?02:34
aslan8649i have loaded devuan ascii unto a new raspberry pi 3b+. everything went well until the aptitude update.02:39
blebgnarface: i'm trying again...02:40
aslan8649E: Failed to fetch 404  Not Found [IP: 80]02:40
aslan8649there are several errors with that ip address.02:41
gnarfaceaslan8649: make sure your sources.list is right, but intermittent 404 errors from some of the mirrors is a known issue.  if you try again, the round-robin will just give you another (probably working) mirror.  when you see this happen don't worry unless it persists through multiple attempts.02:41
aslan8649this is happening after numerous attempts02:42
gnarfacebleb: that wasn't exactly an answer to any of my questions, which limits what further in-context information i can provide.  good luck though.  i'm assuming by your response that you have an idea what went wrong.  if that's not the case, i doubt trying the same thing again will change anything.02:42
aslan8649I have no idea what source.list should look like.02:42
gnarfaceaslan8649: noted.  can you pastebin your /etc/apt/sources.list file?  i will proof read it for you02:43
blebgnarface: this time i will watch for errors towards the end of the install02:43
gnarfacebleb: are you using an installer image or live image to install?02:43
blebgnarface: live image02:43
gnarfacebleb: it might be worth it for you to try one of the regular installers; they have more tunable pre-install options02:44
blebits asking me which devices to install GRUB on02:45
bleb/dev/sda, /dev/sda1, /dev/sdb02:45
gnarfacebleb: most likely /dev/sda is the right answer02:45
blebi think last time i did /dev/sda02:45
blebsorry no02:45
bleblast time i did /dev/sda102:45
blebso that was probably the issue02:45
gnarfaceaslan8649: just change all instances of to and try again02:47
aslan8649will try that.02:48
gnarface( is the DNS round-robin.  you weren't even using it)02:49
blebyeah the installation worked now02:55
blebheres another weird one... the power manager is not showing up in the "notification area" in the top panel02:59
bleband xfce4-power-manager does nothing when envoked from the command line02:59
aslan8649gnarface,  that worked.03:04
aslan8649gnarface, why does not someone fix the raspberry pi image so the correct /etc/apt/source.list is installed to begin with?03:13
aslan8649gnarface, i would did not create the /etc/apt/source.list . that is the source.list included in the Raspberry Pi image from Devuan.03:18
aslan8649typical blame the end-user for the distribution's errors.03:20
blebi just did apt-get install mate-desktop but mate isn't showing up in my session selection03:38
blebis there another package which would make the session selectable in slim?03:39
golinuxbleb: Did you try F1 to choose the session in slim?03:47
gnarfaceaslan8649: i'm sure someone will get around to it.  nobody is blaming you.03:49
saptechbleb, I think you may have to edit slim's config file. man slim04:15
arminpretty impressed by devuan with kde5 right now - testing it from a live usb stick, loaded fully into ram. just works (TM).10:36
telst4rWait, what? kde works --without-systemd?12:25
KatolaZtelst4r: sure ti does12:26
KatolaZit has worked in ascii since beta12:26
amessersince about one year now, yes :-)12:26
telst4rI've been xfce4'ing for so long itd be hard to learn away from it :P12:28
RingtailedFox/ǃ\ AΤTN: Tһіѕ channeⅼ has mο⋁ed to ⅰrϲ․frᥱeᥒoⅾ #/jⲟin /!∖13:10
RingtailedFoxᎳith oᥙr IᖇⲤ aԁ serviϲе you ⅽɑᥒ reаcһ а globaⅼ аᥙdieᥒce of entrᥱрrеᥒe∪rs ɑᥒԁ fᥱntanуl аdԁictѕ ᴡіtһ еxtraοrԁіᥒary eᥒgɑgemeᥒt rɑtesⵑ httрs://wilⅼiampitcock.coⅿ/13:10
nemointeresting. IRC spammers have jumped onto that fact that browsers normalise unicode domain names these days14:21
nemolazy obfuscator too, since it's just randomly dropping in the look-alikes into the text message14:22
nemofor example the / ! \  the  last one was replaced with ∖   instead of just using ⚠14:22
nemojumps right out in my terminal font. maybe it's less obvious in others14:23
nemoguess they read  too14:23
nemoguess the freenode filter will have to add normalisation as well14:25
grummund16∕!\ ΑTΤN: Thiѕ chaᥒneⅼ һaѕ ⅿoved to іrc.freеnⲟԁe.ᥒet #/join /ⵑ\14:33
nemoyou guys are getting more spam than us16:22
nemomaybe they are going through channels in alphabetical order16:22
nemoor else they are checking channel flags for channels that would allow them to talk in the ifrst place16:22
MinceRthere was a time when i actually saw more spam on a channel later in the alphabetical order16:28
nemoIMO the voice thing we've got in place right now is a pretty good solution, since most of the non-authed folks who join us are using the freenode webchat16:29
nemoand it uses google recaptcha which appears to be effective against the current raid16:29
nemo(that or any additional filtering freenode has in place)16:29
MinceRwe don't have a voice thing in place, DocScrutinizer05 vetoed it :>16:30
MinceRit works fine on 2 other channels...16:31
DocScrutinizer05please stay calm16:31
MinceRin fact, we currently do not have any sort of quieting on unidentified users16:32
nemoMinceR: I also put that if you don't have voice talk to an op in channel topic - we were considering making the bot autovoice you after a few minutes or talk to you privately if you didn't have voice and didn't pay attention to topic16:32
nemobut we were too lazy16:32
nemoplus it hasn't actually been a problem so far16:32
nemoseems users really are in the camps of either ① Registered ② Freenode webchat (whitelisted) ③ Spam16:33
nemobut your channel might be different ofc16:33
DocScrutinizer05nemo: there's even a channell ion FN where interested folks discuss all that16:33
nemo#freenode ?16:33
nemohuh. thought that was for their filter thingy16:34
DocScrutinizer05FN implemented irc-server side filtering, and according to what they told me, the filter patterns get manually adjusted according to what sigyn detects (aqmong other criteria), so I expect that spam to have a short live span16:35
nemoI was too scared to quote even portions of the spam exactly in case sigyn targetted me16:35
nemohopefully it makes an exception for registered users16:35
DocScrutinizer05nemo: pretty good approach16:36
DocScrutinizer05you pastebin the spam and post the URL16:36
MinceRand then pastebin bans your address :>16:37
DocScrutinizer05anyway right now the most disruptive effects of that spam are from hyperactive moderation and lenghty debates about that16:37
MinceRso let's just let spammers have their way16:38
nemoheh. I pulled /mode #devuan +q to compare to our /mode #hedgewars +q  and while you guys do indeed not have any sort of global mutes in place, you do have some funny specific ones16:40
nemokde/developer/hunger ?16:40
ManoaI have a problem, whenever I compile a kernel, any version, the system goes into massive ksoftirqd spam spiking the whole system into 100% cpu usage, except the devuan's own kernel which is 4.9.30, what is going on ?16:45
DocScrutinizer05nemo: >>making the bot autovoice yo<< is what they had in #freenode and was commonly considered a royal PITA16:45
DocScrutinizer05for a number of reasons16:45
ManoaI have a problem, whenever I compile a kernel, any version, the system goes into massive ksoftirqd spam spiking the whole system into 100% cpu usage, except the devuan's own kernel which is 4.9.30, what is going on ?16:46
KatolaZManoa: Devuan's latest available kernel is 4.9.110...16:49
DocScrutinizer05nemo: and I think eventually we've seen first spambots adapting to that by simply adding an adjusted delay between /join and /msg16:50
ManoaI compiled 20 kernels this week, all of them have the problem, I even stolen the .config from devuan's 4.9.30 and built with it and it's still the same problem16:50
KatolaZManoa: I am saying that you probably don't need to compile it16:51
nemoDocScrutinizer05: yeah. but the hope is that somewhere in freenode their attacks will be caught by seomeone else first ☺16:51
nemoDocScrutinizer05: right now the $~a *!*@gateway/web/freenode  seems to be working well tho16:52
ManoaI need to know what is going on, why do normal kernels from create a ksoftirqd spam ?16:52
DocScrutinizer05well, I try to moderate channels based on common sense as discussed in freenode's channels dealing with this spam attack since almost a year now. auto-voicing had been tested and considered inapt16:53
DocScrutinizer05*some* channels may like it, but it has severe downsides that generally make it look inferior toother means16:54
DocScrutinizer05as long as the amount of spam in relation to volume of normal posts in a channel stays in the fractions of a percent range, it's probably best to just live woth it and let FN staff deal with development of counter measures, at which they do an excellent job16:56
DocScrutinizer05nemo: >>$~a<< yeah, we had that until like 24h ago. I want to try lifting it to allow unauthenticated users to drop by asking questions, which happened more often than spam posts did, during last few days17:00
nemoDocScrutinizer05: well the magic for us was whitelisting freenode chat17:00
DocScrutinizer05if spam shoots the roof (like one every few minutes) we will enable the +q ban again17:01
nemoDocScrutinizer05: if you get a lot of unauthenticated users from, oh, mibbit or something could add those too17:01
nemoDocScrutinizer05: it seems all the IRC noobs use our site freenode JS or some similar generic thing17:01
nemoDocScrutinizer05: do you guys have an IRC page on ?17:01
DocScrutinizer05don't think so17:01
DocScrutinizer05just a generic link to webirc17:02
DocScrutinizer05and yes, prolly could ban exempt webirc17:03
DocScrutinizer05but it doesn't solve the problem, only mitigates it17:03
nemoyeah, dunno where your anons come from, but for us that seems to be all of them17:04
DocScrutinizer05on a related sidenote: on #freenode it's ban-worthy to *comment* on spam. They have that policy to avoid multiplication where a single spam post causes the channel to go nuts with discussing it for hours17:05
DocScrutinizer05Ionce got kicked for thanking sigyn when she klined a spammer17:07
DocScrutinizer05for emergencies (when you're *100%* certain that another SPAM will come in within next 3 minutes) you can switch channel into defcon-red by posting "spam alarm" in all upper case and without space. Don't abuse or it will get disabled17:19
DocScrutinizer05and you'll get banned ;-)17:20
nemoonly way I'd likely know about that is the dude who has been harassing us in Hedgewars takes it into his head to attack our freenode channel too17:22
nemofew days ago a Tor user who was big on how important anonymity was, and how awesome it was that we allowed Tor and anons etc took it into his head to spam /dev/urandom to our game server.  when we banned him and switched on registration he started spamming our forums from fake accounts too17:23
nemosooo non-zero chance he'll try IRC next17:23
nemostrange this phenomenon of people who deliberately crap in their own beds so to speak.  end result is we'll just get around to adding all Tor exit nodes to our block list like so many places have done17:27
DocScrutinizer05like your dog shitting in your flat when you leave them alone17:28
DocScrutinizer05they don't do that because they had to. They feel pissed and so decide to shit there to show how pissed they are17:29
nemowell.  he initially started by specifying a username of a random string of invalid utf8 bits - perhaps was insulted by our kicking him for his cleverness17:30
DocScrutinizer05suddenly everybody starts talking to the poor doggie again ;-D17:30
DocScrutinizer05if you have absolutely no better more intellectual thing to contribute, you start a chat by spamming17:32
DocScrutinizer05or trolling17:33
buZzwell, sometimes its hard to differenciate deliberate trolling from sincere lower intelligence17:33
buZzand overmoderation could drive such users away quickly17:33
nemobuZz: well this particular dude was bright enough to write a primitive bot that manages to join with /dev/urandom | head -c 50 as username, then sends chat lines consisting of similar until flood kicked at which point it rejoins and repeats. he eventually added rate limiting too17:35
nemoso yeah, right now server is on registered-only which is a shame for Hedgewars users17:35
buZzok yeah, its hard to see sincerity in that ;)17:35
nemowe'll block Tor exit nodes in future.17:35
nemoand we'll probably add shadow bans too since they are harder to detect.17:35
nemoalso UTF-8 validation17:35
buZznemo: so sad that freenod destroyed shadow exempts :(17:36
buZzthen you could just bad all ~gateway users up front, and exempt ppl in shadow17:36
buZzban all*17:36
system16how can i check the mount point of a drive ?21:41
system16i have formatted an external drive as ext421:41
system16it says its mounted on /dev21:42
fsmithredthe mount points while they are mounted?21:42
system16i mean21:42
fsmithreddf -h21:42
fsmithreddf -Th21:42
system16im trying to access my drive that i just formatted21:42
fsmithredif you haven't mounted it yet, then you get to choose the mountpoint21:42
system16mount /dev/sdb2 gives an error21:43
fsmithredor did your desktop mount it?21:43
system16i have no GUI21:43
system16and no de21:43
fsmithredmount <device> <mountpoint>21:43
fsmithredmount /dev/sdb2 /my/new/mountpoint/21:43
system16can i choose /home as a mount point ?21:44
fsmithredor just /mnt21:44
fsmithredif you do, all your user's homes will not be accessible21:44
system16i just did21:44
system16umount ?21:44
system16damn. that was a close call21:45
fsmithredmkdir /home/system16/sdb221:45
fsmithredmount /dev/sdb2 /home/system16/sdb221:45
fsmithredor put it in /mnt/sdb2 and then make a symlink to the directory you create on the dirve21:46
system16i guess i have to do chmod 777 ?21:46
system16i have to21:47
fsmithredchown -R system16:system16 /home/system16/sdb221:47
fsmithredand it must already be mounted for chown to work21:48
system16i have to be root right ?21:48
system16i guess its working21:49
system16do i have to mount it manually on startup ?21:49
fsmithredtouch /home/system16/sdb2/testfile21:50
fsmithredyes, or create an entry in fstab for it21:50
system16do you know how ?21:50
fsmithredsort of21:50
system16nano /dev/fstab21:50
fsmithredI'll probably get the columns in the wrong order21:50
fsmithredsee man fstab21:51
fsmithredand man mount (for options)21:51
fsmithredyou could just use defaults,noatime for options21:51
fsmithredor maybe also user with those if you want your user to be able to mount/unmount manually21:52
fsmithredbut not needed21:52
system16so it mounts it on startup ?21:53
fsmithreddevice   mountpoint    type    options    0    221:53
system16uh no21:53
fsmithredno what?21:53
fsmithredthat's how mine is layed out21:53
system16filesystem   mountpoint    type    options    dump    pass21:53
fsmithredyup. That's what I said21:54
system16all of them have <>21:54
fsmithredonly in the man page21:54
fsmithredcat /etc/fstab21:54
fsmithredto look at yours21:54
system16i use nano21:54
fsmithredok, you can use an editor to look at the file21:55
fsmithredgood idea in this case, so you can add a line21:55
system16im rebooting (maybe it mounts it automatically)21:55
fsmithreddid you add a line to fstab?21:56
system16because idk what to type21:56
fsmithredfirst column contains the filesystem you want to mount21:56
system16 /dev/sdb221:57
fsmithred   /dev/sdb2    /home/s16/sdb2    ext4    defaults,noatime    0    221:57
fsmithreduse tabs, not spaces21:57
system16like        this ?21:57
fsmithredand use the right path to your mountpoint - I'm lazy21:57
fsmithredI guess. My tab key doesn't work in my irc client21:58
system16like what is the worst thing that could happen?21:58
fsmithredit won't mount21:58
fsmithredit might complain21:58
fsmithredmight hang on boot21:59
system16it did mount it21:59
system16or not21:59
fsmithredin which case you'd have to boot a live cd and mount the system to re-edit fstab21:59
fsmithredoh, maybe boot single-user and fix it22:00
fsmithredjust do it right the first time22:00
system16what about UUID ?22:00
fsmithredhow many drives in the computer?22:00
system162 drives. 1 external. 1 internal22:01
fsmithredmight work fine without using uuid22:01
fsmithredif bios gets the order wrong, I guess it won't boot22:02
system16can i make a script using nano ?22:02
fsmithredscript for what?22:02
system16for this command : mount /dev/sdb2 /home/myusername/sdb222:02
fsmithredyeah, but why reinvent the wheel?22:03
system16and put that in startup22:03
fsmithredjust put a line in fstab22:03
system16this is a lot easier and has 0 risk22:03
fsmithredok, but at some point, you should decide that editing fstab is easier. Maybe not today.22:05
system16so do you know how i can do that ?22:06
fsmithreddo what? Write a script?22:06
fsmithredit's more steps that editing fstab22:06
fsmithredfist line is shebang22:06
fsmithredsecond line is command22:07
system16shebang ?22:07
fsmithredthird line is 'exit 0'22:07
fsmithredjust add the line to fstab22:07
fsmithredor put your command in /etc/rc.local22:07
fsmithredit's already a script for that22:08
system16thats easier22:08
fsmithredfor your custom commands to happen after everything else is started, but before you log in22:08
system16do i have to put a # first ?22:09
system16#mount /dev/sdb2 /home/user/sdb2 or no # ?22:09
fsmithredonly if you want the command NOT to run22:09
fsmithredthe # turns it into a comment22:10
fsmithredthere should be other text in that file that starts with #22:10
fsmithredthat's stuff for you to read22:10
fsmithredand for the system to ignore22:10
fsmithredyou put your command before the 'exit 0' I hope.22:11
system16so i can dump my commands in that script an make devuan run it at startup ? nice22:12
system16like echo lol idk wtf im doing22:13
system16it worked22:15
system16it shows up on df -h22:15
system16im so happy22:16
system16i wonder if there is a script for running commands before shutdown...22:17
fsmithredyeah, there is (or are several)22:18
fsmithredmaybe ~/.bash_logout22:18
fsmithredno, that won't work22:19
system16devuan wont umount it when i execute shutdown -h now right ?22:19
fsmithredyou'd have to add a line to fstab and add noauto,user for it to work in .bash_logout22:19
system16that can be bad for the drive22:19
fsmithredsystem should unmount everything that's mounted before shutdown22:19
fsmithredI've never seen it do otherwise22:20
system16oh so i dont need to umount it before shutting down22:20
fsmithredunless you plan to shutdown by cutting the power22:21
system16i turned it off. the drive made a loud dang sound right before it halted22:21
fsmithredhow did you turn it off?22:22
system16shutdown -h now22:22
fsmithredwhen you reboot, see if there's a message that sdb2 was not cleanly unmounted22:26
system16the message is there when i reboot or i have to go to some log file ?22:27
fsmithredit'll scroll by on boot22:28
system16it even makes that noise when i run pm-suspend22:30
fsmithredsmartctl -a /dev/sdb22:30
fsmithredinstall smartmontools if you don't have it22:30
system16what would that do ?22:30
fsmithredgive you info on the drive22:30
fsmithredSMART data22:31
system16it changed it to sdc22:32
fsmithredwhere's the third drive?22:34
system16there is non22:34
system16all i did was i ran the pm-suspend command22:34
fsmithredexternal is usb?22:34
system16when i turned it back on it renamed it to sdc i guess22:35
fsmithredthat's the same thing that happens if you pull out a usb without unmounting it and then plug in another (or the same one again)22:35
fsmithredI don't know what to do about that22:36
fsmithredand I need to get going22:36
system16this external disk requires 2 usb ports. and this netbook has 3. and the other 1 is on the other side22:36
system16its not important22:36
system16i just have to umount it first i guess22:37
fsmithredtake a look at pmount22:37
fsmithredit allows user to mount/unmount removable drives22:37
fsmithredcommand syntax is simpler than mount22:37
fsmithredpmount sdb222:37
system16it has changed back to sdb22:37
fsmithredwould mount it at /media/sdb222:37
fsmithredpumount sdb2 would unmount it22:38
fsmithredgood luck22:38

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